As my virtual mentor, the late Reinhold Niebuhr, said: We imperfect humans must make a choice and then ask God for forgiveness. By all means, act in your interests but do not pretend that what you do is virtuous or beneficial to others.
47
Safer for whom indeed? Please think 'we' not 'me' at this time.
15
Its kind of a no-brainer. If you suspect you might get locked down at home for 14-30 days would you rather spend that time at the top floor of the Trump Tower with rat infested restaurants, no sprinkler system, and an escalator going nowhere? Or would you rather spend that at Mar-a-Lago playing golf, ponying up to the omelette bar, and eating the bigliest chocolate cake ever with President Xi?
You're going to pick a place with a yard and a fence and maybe even some beachfront. But as lovely as Lauren Bacall's Manhattan home is, its still totally indoors and would get old really quick.
18
I'm sure if you drive fast enough on the LIE you will outrun the virus (it may catch up to you in the Montauk Highway traffic, though).
28
Apparently the best defenses against covid-19 are the pot holes, frost heaves and muddy ruts that comprise the infrastructure in Northern New England. I bet the pathogen can’t stand up to boiling hot fresh maple syrup either. Oh and by the way ‘You can’t get heah from theah”.
14
The rich really are different from the rest of us.
13
@barbraplease They are worse than the rest of us. They just don’t realize it.
9
You mean their second, third, or fourth homes.
15
It's not the army that's been called in, it's navy. At this very moment submarines are in Raritan Bay awaiting the go code from Mayor Chirlane McCray. But since she and her husband whats-his-name don't get up till 11am on weekends we are o.k. for a while. I can see the periscopes from New Dorp Beach...
My local Stop-N-Shop was a lot less crowded yesterday. They were out of a lot of stuff but I went around 7pm. They had milk but were out of many meat items.
11
@NYC Taxpayer Same here out on Long Island Stop-n-Shop. Pasta, meats, paper products, all gone, but the store was otherwise stocked OK, and what was going was being re-stocked constantly. I went about 8:30pm. The store was busy, but there were no lines. I hope once people feel they have what they need to wait this out a while that things will be resupplied and things will be OK. It's not going to be "normal" by any means, but I hope this is just people panicking as the numbers start rising (as testing improves). Once we start down the other side, I think people will be able to exhale. Just don't know how long that will be.
11
The hypocrisy of progressive politics (both class and identity) are on full display when push comes to shove. Out of state homeowners support my state in the summer months. Why should I to be angered that they are fleeing here to their second homes? Some surely worked hard for them while others may not have. Oh well, that's just how a free society works. Instead of propagating a victim mentality, the Democrats should be teaching people they are in control of their own destinies albeit to varying degrees.
Even in the most utopian socialist society, there will always be an upper class. Someone always has to make the rules, delegate and enforce them. According to history and contrary to popular belief, that always turns out worse in the end. When you try to make everyone equal you only end up bringing more people down.
Reforms are certainly needed in our country with regard to monopolies and the resulting extreme wealth concentration. Money should also not play the dominate role it does in politics. But you don't have to destroy everything to fix the areas that are broken.
People need to accept that this world will never be perfectly fair in regard to individual circumstances. Conservatives are extremely far from perfect, but they seem to have a more optimistic outlook with regard to opportunities to pull themselves up. There is currently a democratic faction that's focused on blame, revenge and pulling others down even if they share most of the same values.
20
Your class warfare story should hv been about how the unhealthy, obese, alcoholics, smokers, hypochondriacs and careless are going to over tax our health care systems punishing the people who actually take care of themselves. Its time for the healthy to rise up from being oppressed by the unhealthy! Oppression in terms of the healthy paying for the unhealthy is super real and this crises already makes that point.
32
@Tammie I always thought healthcare costs keep rising because anything that is for profit, like US healthcare, the price keeps going up.
41
@Tammie
It's a lot easier to be healthy if you have money. I'm sure you know that there is a class difference when it comes to health because those without money don't have access to good, healthy, fresh foods. Nor do they have the guidance of a regular doctor to guide them.
Also, let's be clear, a lot of the obesity in our country comes from the fact that our foods, all of our foods - even "organic," in some cases are tainted with chemicals and preservatives. And of course, don't forget GMO's. We have no idea about how they affect us.
I wouldn't be so quick to point a finger. We who are more fortunate have better access to better food and health care.
27
@Tammie
Some truth, but painfully harsh. Alcoholism, as one example, has been part of the human condition forever. It can be genetic. Some people in this country are obese because they are poor and fattening food is cheap. These are things that can be improved, but to heap scorn on others makes me cringe.
15
While I have no problem with people going to second homes, I do have a problem with an incompetent President and his dysfunctional administration.
37
I am absolutely sick of the NY Times, which I subscribe to, using everything that happens to try to fan the flames of economic resentment.
24
Although I cannot really fault those fleeing the festering city, I have a suggested reading for them; Poe's "The Masque of the Red Death".
2
Ho hum.
Another day, another Bellafante article about “the rich”.
And your point is, what exactly? That the rich have second homes? That’s newsworthy?
Maybe you should do a muckraking article about how the rich have more money in their bank accounts than the poor. Or bigger houses (or houses at all). Or nicer clothes.
That would probably be front page news in the NYT, where the idea that social ills that affect the rich and the poor differently is apparently a revelation worthy of endless copy.
14
Is there a “who cares” Emoji?
12
This article is decisive and plain silly. I know plenty of regular and low income people who have left the city. This paper has really gone down the tubes. It’s sensational rather than journalism.
16
Let’s all crash Matt Lauer’s place in the Hamptons. I’m sure he has extra room!
4
Thanks for a lighter take that feels like the beginning of an Elin Hildebrand beach read.
2
Read Poe’s The Masque of the Red Death before you decide to leave town.
1
Ok! See Ya! More toilet paper for me!
We’ve sheltered in place for several reasons but the three main reasons are;
1. If you’re an asymptomatic carrier, you’re moving it into spaces where it may not yet be a problem. Or you’re moving into a space that’s about to be a problem. Congrats and keep up the good work!
2. You’ve moved into areas where the medical system will become overwhelmed much faster than in a big city. This goes for grocery stores and supplies too.
And finally, the most important reason...
3. We’re real New Yorkers and real New Yorkers don’t run or hide.
8
Same thing in Tahoe, we're out of pasta and toilet paper, they have arrived.
Should be interesting, we're expecting 3 feet this weekend.
Let the circus begin, cue the music. We'll see how well the Range Rover does.
3
I find Wilburton's marketing slogans distasteful.
8
Exactly like on September 12th, 2001. I expect any minute now to see Guiliani telling the all-of-a-sudden reduced-incomed 99%-ers to go shopping, like he did few days later. After all, that was what made that criminal "America's Mayor", right?
4
It's not just the 1% who has a weekend retreat out of NYC. Why is the NY Times so anti-wealth? Its articles consistently mock anyone who is upper-middle class, even though many of its editors are part of this class (I personally know several NYT writers heading out of town to their second homes. It's a fact of life in the city that having even a tiny cabin to which to escape is a big part of maintaining NYC sanity). In fact, it could be considered a positive move to reduce the density of NYC and lessen the dependence of so many on NYC hospitals. At a time that requires physical isolation, why should a move towards exactly that--greater physical isolation--be criticized? This is a benefit for those leaving AND those remaining in the city. The snide, derogatory tone of these articles is really not necessary.
19
this type of article should not appear in the NYT, at best, its for FOX and low level thinking! The real issue is that the rich have the financial options to get medical treatment (i.e., how quick 45 got COVID-19 tested, that is if he got tested and its not another of his multitude fabricated lies!), while the poor will suffer.
2
This story and the recent news of Trump and his sycophants living it up down at Mar a Lago remind me of Poe's "The Masque of the Red Death". How apt that the masked reaper cavorts among them unsuspected. Will the riche recognize the mingling interloper ? It won't be so easy. But he may be wearing a MAGA hat and American flag pin.
3
Just make sure you go back to the city when you get sick. And you will, considering how packed Sag Harbor Village was last night. There are 1903 beds total between the 8 hospitals east of Stony Brook. New York City has 53,000.
5
“Escape from New York Call? I figured Snake Plissken was coming to the rescue.
2
Thank you so much for considering my wife and I 1 percenters!! We have taken our high priced dog and fish and fled dreary old manhattan to our $90K 2nd home. Please think before you write next time.
8
Remember that money, assets, or anything along that line will not buy you immunity. You can have a second home elsewhere and bring along with you some relatives and friends and have the potential to still propagate Covid19.
4
Good riddance. I hope they took their doctors and ventilators with them. At least they won't be trying to go to the head of the line back in the city.
3
I wonder if those fleeing have ever spent time in the tiny Southampton Hospital, the only one in a 50+ mile radius.
4
Would it not be nice if people of color other than the colored managerial class could have the same option of going to the Hamptons? Somehow this smacks of racial and cultural privilege.
3
You nailed it!
2
Reading this, I think: too many writers and NYTimes staff are working from home and over-working their imaginations.
Illness and death are painful to all and inevitably get all. 1% or other.
Be Nice.
12
This is the class that has ruined our city and our culture. They have ripped the middle class soul out of NYC and replaced it with endless overpriced monolith co-op buildings. These are the one percent that have destroyed the living wages of the working man just to raise their stock prices by a few cents. Stay out in the Hampton’s Petri dish . We don’t want you back
7
After this terrible crisis which will get a lot worse blows over there will be many lessons to ponder. Among them will be the following:
1.Why do under-value and underpay nurses and caregivers?
2.Why have we consistently for third years accepted diminishing the role of government in regulating and preparing for national emergencies, health, financial, natural disaster etc etc."
3. Why have we allowed the very rich to dictate national policies on taxes?
4.Why have we allowed the well-known complex put most of our tax dollars into a bloated military budget which serves very little purpose ( while fanning "nationalism" about "warriors" and the like)?
5. Why has education been neglected, permitting the kind of ignorant response typical of Trump's base?
5.How do we get rid of the corrupt complicit elements in Congress bought off by the special interests?
These are enough to get on with but there is much else that should occupy US citizens in the future.....
2
In 1348, the Italian author Giovanni Boccaccio wrote a book about a group of young people- (possibly the equivalent of privileged Italian millenials from that time) - who escaped the plague by retreating to a deserted villa in the Florentine countryside - where they spent their time telling stories to each other --
The Decameron
"In Italy during the time of the Black Death, a group of seven young women and three young men flee from plague-ridden Florence to a deserted villa in the countryside of Fiesole for two weeks.
To pass the evenings, each member of the party tells a story each night, except for one day per week for chores, and the holy days during which they do no work at all, resulting in ten nights of storytelling over the course of two weeks."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Decameron
If you want a wonderful way to pass your self-quarrantine time at home - try reading this wonderful book -- it's long but will take you on a wonderful journey -- much better than binge-watching anything you could stream on television...
8
A Westchester County man came to his second home in Vermont earlier this week. He became ill 24 hours after he arrived and subsequently tested positive for COVID19. So he didn't manage to avoid getting sick, and he brought illness with him. Seems like a lose-lose to me!
8
Something for some of us left-behind NYers to look forward to who live in the East Village Manhattan, when the NYU students and wealthy millennials with parents in Connecticut, get called home.
3
Dear Rich People, it is fathomable and plausible, that if this thing gets semi-apocalyptic, eventually armed marauding bands (and I don't mean the "cover" type), gangs, or individuals will come to your beautiful mansion and take your toilet paper and everything else. In the city at least there is more incentive for the authorities to provide some security. Society can function without the professional class, but not without tradesmen and medical personnel. You can run, but you can't hide!
3
Wherever you are, SOCIAL DISTANCING! It shouldn’t matter if there are fewer or many people in your community because we ought to be interacting with members of our households only. The Times has another article describing how Singapore, Taiwan, and Hong Kong are containing this successfully and the common thread is social distancing and quarantine. Not rocket science. Stay home, catch up on your reading, movie-watching, hobbies. Chat and play games with your partner and children. It is going to be uncomfortable. It is what it is. Defying common sense is selfish. Let the problem be the virus and not human behavior.
3
I have no cause to be a survivalist, but what will be the best thing to do if there is a bad hurricane or earthquake (in LA) in conjunction with the virus? Is it better to camp at home (if you have one) than go to a shelter?
I don't understand the reason for this "Bash the Rich" article.
People, regardless of their means, are going to do whatever they can do to try and survive. Self-preservation is what any organism seeks when threatened.
It's bad enough we have a so-called leader who first denies the existence of an existential threat to people and who then disclaims any responsibility for his inactions when the threat proves real. But do we have to start engaging in class warfare too?
It isn't helpful at all to criticize how anyone practices social distancing in these unprecedented times. If people have the means and opportunity to travel to remoter areas in order to try and protect themselves how does this hurt anyone else?
Is jealousy the real driver of what is written here?
If not, then it comes down to simply this: What was the purpose of this article?
11
Our summer neighbors arrived last week and their BMW hasn't moved from their driveway once.
2
The problem is that our small rural state has small rural hospitals. We don’t have the infrastructure to manage widespread illness in our own population, let alone adding refugees.
14
I wonder if people have considered what the health care systems are like in the places they are headed to. Rural hospitals, few doctors, no food delivery services, no uber/taxi. If they get sick, they will have few resources and be overloading already stretched health care providers.
9
My family packed up and moved to our house in Delaware County, NY. It's beautiful up here and we're grateful that we can do this now. 20 years ago, after 9/11 we all stayed in the City rather than come to our house. The City is where are home is. We volunteered to help, donated supplies, did whatever we could because we were able to. This is different. There is general confusion, conflicting information, and population density that makes it easier to catch and spread the virus. Our house is rural and we don't plan to interact or socialize with anyone except for a trip to Walmart. It's self quarantine and we're lucky enough that we can work from here.
12
Well here in the Flatiron it is very peaceful and quiet. There are no crowds at the Flatiron building, Madison Square Park or Union Square.
I’ve gotten calls from locals in Southampton complaining about the NYC folks panic shopping in the food stores.
I read there was one case in Southampton Hospital. I’m sure the fleeing NYC folks will also bring the virus.
7
We need social solidarity through the crisis.Afterwards lets hope the American tendency to ahistoricism and ignoring the past will not prevail. There are lessons here for the health services (or lack of them).The role of government. The starving of social services. The bloated "defence" budget. The crony capitalists in Congress. and much more....
6
@s.chubin Absolutely! Very well said!
1
Buy outside of the city, rent in NYC. (And self-quarantine when you come up because we still don’t have any cases in Columbia County).
I count myself extremely privileged to have a job that has allowed me to do just this (including working from home up here for the foreseeable future) but let’s all - the rich or just those who would prefer to invest in modest houses half the cost of what it would’ve cost to buy our tiny apartment - remember those who don’t have that privilege.
Support struggling small businesses by buying gift cards now to use later. Tip delivery drivers well. Offer support however you’re able.
8
@Ash - buying gift cards from small businesses is a fine idea so long as people realize that shop may be out of business by the time they want to cash in the card.
Still not clear as to how you are helping, while exhorting that others do the same? Gratefulness in and of itself would be fine.
2
I live in an area of rural Nova Scotia which is extremely popular with tourists and where many people from Europe, the US, and other Canadian provinces have summer homes. This morning we have no diagnosed cases in Nova Scotia. Thank goodness, because our small community hospitals can barely handle 'situation normal'. This isn't about rich and poor, it is about carrying the virus from one location to another and overwhelming the medical system in an area that is already under served. If you choose to come -- for heaven's sake, bring your own supplies, and self-quarantine for 14 days.
18
It’s a bit frightening to think about the possibility of overloading our hospital (1) and volunteer fire and ambulance departments.
9
It wouldn't have been a bad idea to lock down the city, forbid travel in and out ala Milan... and take it further mandating people to stay in their homes. When the Milan lockdown was first announced there was an exodus to the south... And now the disease is exponentially spreading throughout Calabria.. How long do you think it will take for the Hamptons, Newport etc. to erupt? As I write from my small village (no cases yet but plenty in the nearby larger towns) a car equipped with loudspeakers is cruising the streets ordering all to stay indoors until tomorrow and then only direct trips to the grocery and pharmacy will be permitted.
8
This is confusing two entirely separate issues: 1. How do we create enough physical distance between individuals so that we slow the spread of COVIR-19?, and
2. Are we running our economy in a dysfunctional fashion that is producing unjust and dangerous wealth inequities?
Both are very important, and perhaps even existential, questions. Maybe that explains the compulsion to mix them up.
12
It would be responsible if those fleeing from large metropolitan areas into small communities would self-quarantine for two weeks after arrival and BEFORE visiting businesses in small towns. ((Hint - bring supplies to do this!)
14
The very rich are different from you and me. They are also less rich than they were a few weeks ago.
BTW if you want to walk on the beach you can take the subway or ferry to the beach.
We are living in interesting times. Let's hope fewer of us shed virus than supposed and that more of us have light cases. It is a peculiar virus for sure. and I am glad for the shut-down... BUT I would definitely stay away from gyms.... Thinking about Legionaires spread via ventilating systems. How does this one do in damp conditions and air conditioning systems?
3
Actually, one could ordinarily take a subway to Coney Island or a bus to Riis Park, but how safe is that nowadays?
Spouse and I haven't ridden public transportation or gone to a museum or any other public venue in three weeks, and we haven't been within 4-5 feet of another living soul in two weeks.
If we want to take a drive to a public garden on Long Island or even in New Jersey to see the flowering quince bloom, may we not?
Caution, not panicked hectoring or derision, should be the word.
5
All year I split my time between NYC and East Hampton, but I chose to go the opposite direction despite the situation getting worse in the city, so I left East Hampton last week when there were no known cases of the virus there. Since then, sure enough, the virus has come to the end of Long Island, too. My reasoning was that it would be harder to avoid there once it came, as we all more or less frequent the same places within a more limited area and I felt there was a greater likelihood of coming into proximity to an infected person there. And the more people who come out from the city, the more likely some of them may unknowingly carry the virus to make things worse. However, if I could escape to the more remote areas of the state, I would probably do it, but the North and South Forks are no longer safe havens.
5
What purpose does it serve to further polarize the coronavirus issue with a rich vs. poor approach?
There are people who can afford a second or third home but there are also less affluent people who have family and friends outside the city.
The less-dense NYC becomes, the better for the hospitals, markets and especially the at-risk population who indeed would benefit from leaving the city.
10
I have heard that they are working on a vaccine. It is supposed to take about a year and a half before they think they might have one. I don't understand why they would bother if they didn't think this was still going to be around in a year and a half.
I wonder if any countries are trying to learn how to propagate the virus outside the human body for scientific research.
2
The Norwegian Government, in order to reduce the geographical spread of the virus and the risks to weaker rural medical services, is considering using Civil Defense services to force city-people to return home from their country-side holiday-homes.
7
I grew up year round on Martha’s Vineyard. Family & friends who live there year round can’t always afford to stock up on the salaries they make building and caretaking for the private homes that sit empty in the off season... and now the richest go up there, clean out the stores, and make it harder to find basic foods for those who live on week-to-week grocery budgets.
To those who can, please consider some extra generosity during this time!
34
The ones who have a second home are likely the ones complaining about how De Blasio should shut down schools and also the ones hoarding on supplies. The ones who can afford to pay others to feed and care for their kids. I've seen it happening in the past few days.
9
Good. Finally a useful use of their 2nd homes.
Israel is closing down everything, including bars and restaurants. Something we should've done 3 weeks ago. What are we waiting for? Stupidity has a societal cost, and there are too many clueless people in US who think just because they will be in the 80% that doesn't need hospitalization it's ok to get infected and infect multiple others as a result.
The Italian healthcare system is collapsing and we are on the same trajectory with too many fools going on with their lives as if there is no pandemic. Expert estimates of death toll is between 500k and 1.2 million deaths. Way before we get there our healthcare system will collapse.
13
Uhmm … good luck finding an ICU in the middle of nowhere, if you do get really sick.
18
@David, exactly, and the locals probably need their limited resources.
8
Thanks for this article. Shouldn't be laughing at the misfortunes of others, but reading about the foibles of the privileged class is so entertaining! Almost as funny as the celebrities freaking out over getting their kids into hip California colleges, to the extent of faking SAT scores and athletic prowess. Am stuck here in my apartment in Seattle waiting for the weather to clear so I can take a walk in the park - maintaining proper social distance of course - and have zero sympathy for those who feel they must go to the Hamptons.
12
@DR Man! I really like your comment!!
2
'Twas ever thus. The rich are different from us: They have more money.
9
It is clear that New Yorkers are crazy. Going from one area to another with the same people is not going to solve the problem.
May I suggest Alabama, the only state with no infections. The coast is beautiful and it's cheap
6
@Sparky Jones
Re AL...no testing results in no infections. Plus, an unimpressive healthcare reporting system. Juking the numbers anyway in conservative Alabama to support tRump. No infections, pfft.
2
I used to chuckle watching the shows about the doomsday preppers. Who's laughing now...
9
@Mal B I used to watch those prepping shows out of entertainment, but I learned enough from watching to start "prepping" and social distancing in December 2019. I have plenty of toilet paper, and all the other good stuff...Now it is in god's/destiny/the Universe's hands! I only hope I never have to rely on my prepping.
What a great idea, possibly infected people going to a place without the resources to handle a pandemic. When they get sick are they going to find a helicopter that’s willing to fly the to Mt. Sinai?
23
I really and truly resent the characterization of people with second homes being "Rich".
Thirty-five years ago we purchased our Columbia County home so we'd be able to build some equity. Frankly, back then we couldn't afford to buy a co-op or condo in New York City.
To suggest that people who own a modest cottage in upstate New York are "Rich" leaves one to question whether the person stating that is arrogant or ignorant.
Thousands of non-rich New Yorkers have modest cottages and homes. These are palatial manses; they are simple two and three bedroom houses.
I don't why the authors of this article think that second-home owners are "Rich". It's such an insult to ordinary New Yorkers who otherwise cram themselves into small, overpriced apartments every weekday and simply want to build a small piece of equity for their future.
35
Hearing your point. But there are alot of people about to lose jobs with no form
of safety net. Who live in crowded apartments without any choice in jetting up to the woods - as economical and non-mansion like as they may be - and are stuck. To them - you are rich. To all of us - you are lucky.
10
Okay but cabin in upstate is different than waterfront mansion in the Hampton’s...
1
If your apt is expensive and overpriced,
You likely can’t afford a second home (humble or not). I’m guessing you lucked out with rent stabilized or otherwise rent supported apartment in the city. That’s fine, but don’t act all righteous about it.
1
Listen, people. Rent in NY and own in VT.
11
@michael, do your research on available medical facilities first!
1
best line in whole article
Provisions Natural Foods in Sag Harbor was similarly packed and it was there, as supplies dwindled, that a woman could be overheard proclaiming: “This is a great opportunity for a cleanse.”
might cause a run on tp...
16
@Nick I don't think she was talking about a colon cleanse.
More of a "Modest Proposal." Weed out the poor, is how I took it.
1
"The Mask of the Red Death: A Fantasy", E A Poe said you can run, even hide, But Ha you will be found. Always been this way, maybe this time as in the past, money can't buy everything .
7
Hordes of peasants are at the gates, armed with pitchforks, scythes, torches, and fully automatic ghost guns. Seeking shelter.Medicines. Food.
Beware.
Maria the invisible housekeeper, and Asiah the janitor of Prince Prospero's Inn and Cottages brought it with them from their families in Queens so this all will be a modern "The Masque of the Red Death" shortly.
4
I plan on taking the last helicopter leaving Saigon.
10
“Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me...”
6
This is the type of emergency that shows us who we really are: a plutocracy. The rich survive all things; and, we'll bail them out if they think we should. The 'market' is theirs. We're less and less a democracy every day. The workers, the common, we're too lazy to be good citizens. Not lazy work-wise, lazy politic-wise. Shameful all of us.
Some will be laid-off but still have to pay rent to the rich, which may be a hedge fund owned by the rich all over the world. It's not just the rich here. This 'globalism' is giving the billionaires of the world free-reign over all our lives. What a crime against humanity. We're all guilty.
The virus helps make some things clear: we are lost.
24
Lost indeed. This virus shines a bright light on all the reasons why.
10
@ttrumbo I agree,and I might add that at some point the "lazy" one's won't resort to a political solution for that very reasons you point out. In the absence of a slow down of this thing or a vaccine to give people hope, this thing will get ugly real fast. Second homes and stockpiles of toilet paper don't mean a thing. However, I am grateful to the NYT for this article and helping start this discussion.
1
Americans are awake. We see the media’s and our leaders’ focus are on the Dow instead of the death toll. Some ask why your focus isn’t on the virus. Others realize your focus has never strayed. The economy is the virus.
9
Rich Americans have been fleeing urban epidemics since Alexander Hamilton.
5
There were 500 cases of the virus and 27 deaths in mid January when China walled off 11 million people in Wuhan. Draconian? At the time, it seemed extreme. However, 2 months later, they have stopped the spread at just over 81,000 cases and just over 3,100 deaths.
Right now in Hubei, China, the virus’s epicenter, where they confirmed 67,790 cases of Coronavirus and 3,075 deaths, 52,960 people have recovered. There are “only” 11,755 active cases of the virus. New cases of the virus in China are rare.
4
@Michael Anastasion "Release the drones!"
If we want to talk about escaping then the really rich bought islands a long time ago. They anticipated either civil unrest or a pandemic in the future so they either bought the whole island or bought an island with other friends. The islands are always ready for fun times and times that are dangerous.
3
@E. Rich
And their islands will be among the first claimed by rising sea levels.
9
@E. Rich I saw a great documentary on YouTube about that. They have underground luxury bunkers in NZ.
@E. Rich
The islands are always ready for fun times and times that are dangerous.
Jeffery Epstein may have been smart with his island in the Caribbean. It was there for him and his friends (you know who they are) for "fun" times, too bad he is not still around for these dangerous times.
As Eleanor Roosevelt, herself a rich New Yorker with several residences, said: "society is only as health as its least healthy member."
It shouldn't have taken a pandemic for the 1% to realize that paying slightly more taxes, so that health coverage can be available to the entire 99%, would be good for their own health, too.
Maybe they'd rather die before admitting Eleanor or her husband made sense (some of those houses now belong to people who remember their dads raging about that man in the WH and moms sniffing about traitors to their class).
They may have forgotten that Otto von Bismark came up with the concept of national health insurance, not to boost the proletariat's physical or other well-being, but to cripple trade unions and destgroy socialism.
24
Thank you for this
1
@ jimmunology Thanks for your comment. It's comforting to have folks to go to in these times. Very good indeed.
And in times of plague, the wealthy left London for their family homes in the country.
Looks like we have all the tools of medieval England to fight this thing.
9
There are middle class people that also have second homes, esp. ones who have been locked into rent control/stabilization for decades and are flush with free cash flow and can afford a mortgage and actual ownership. I would wager they number more than the "1%" and more than 1% of the renters in the city.
This is almost as ludicrous as last week's opinion piece calling professionals working from home class discrimination.
I'm waiting for the article complaining about suburban commuters having it better... What do you consider fair? Should the section 8 people living next to the billionaire remodeling and causing noise on the upper west side also be granted a home on the Hamptons for social justice?
9
That means a lot of very expensive homes in the city will be vulnerable to robbery, as even the staff will be gone. As well dressing up with face mask, gloves and full body overalls will not be out of place. I expect a few high end places will be knocked over in plain view and people will just assume it's a decontamination team or similar…. If L & O Criminal Intent was still on, they'd do a episode in a few months on it.
9
@casbott
People who are rich know what security is and can afford to employ it. Don't suggest they're left twisting in the wind. After Katrina, in lawless NO, rich people had private security walking the perimeter of their properties with pump shotguns, at the ready, in 12 hours. Many, former Army Rangers, who knew what they were doing. Not garden variety Pinkerton types.
3
Four people in 1000 square foot apartment, we rely on playgrounds and school and restaurants to give us space. Based on one day so far, a months long quarantine is not something we can handle, so we are thinking about how to get out, to reduce the murder rate!
13
A less crowded city is better for those staying behind. Why the fuss?
98
@RKP Because now it has spread to small rural communities like Southold which has gone from 1 to 18 cases in four days - all community transmitted, and no one getting tested unless they have a fever. Stay put. Stay inside until testing is widely available.
31
@RKP apparently the fuss is resentful people hearing of wealthy people leaving to a second home. If the same resentful people held power, there would be mass confiscation. If this article were about poor communities of color fleeing upstate to stay with family (as two students in my Brooklyn HS have done) you would NOT see any criticisms that they are spreading the virus to Rochester. You’d just get silence.
9
@RKP Thanks. That made me chuckle.
4
Searching websites, we know about the hot zone in New Rochelle. But there are 154 cases in NYC as of this morning with no information about where or even what borough. This lack of information surely tends to inspire panic. The website says there is only one case in Ulster County, so it is a pretty good bet that is a safe place to go, since someone from Staten Island might just assume the active cases are all in one of the other boroughs and therefore they have not been exposed as yet.
3
@Patrick
Five cases in Ulster County as of 3/13. https://www.dailyfreeman.com/news/local-news/ulster-county-s-th-covid--patient-is-port-ewen/article_cd5e0c9c-6534-11ea-8692-eb6961b1d9b3.html
I doubt they're doing much testing there yet, as in my own state. Testing is supposed to finally get rolling on Monday. Right now, it's a matter of "don't seek and ye shan't find." Next week, the numbers will probably skyrocket on both coasts and around major cities, if not across the entire nation.
1
On Monday there were close to 30 cases in the city. By noon on Saturday there were 216. If we were as serious about containment, it would be reasonable to expect the city to be locked down. China was serious about containment.
There were 500 cases of the virus and 27 deaths in mid January when they walled off 11 million people in Wuhan. Draconian? At the time, it seemed extreme. However, 2 months later, they have stopped the spread at just over 81,000 cases and just over 3,100 deaths.
Right now in Hubei, China, the virus’s epicenter, where they confirmed 67,790 cases of Coronavirus and 3,075 deaths, 52,960 people have recovered. There are “only” 11,755 active cases of the virus. New cases of the virus in China are rare.
China’s economic strength is its people, and despite how you feel about their government’s past atrocities or its current oppression, they did what they had to do to protect their people. We are doing what we have to do to protect our markets.
12
Personally I don’t understand why anybody wants to live in a big city. In today’s world, most professional jobs can be done from home. I work from home, and home for me is my family’s homeplace in rural East Alabama. I wake up to the waving of pecan and oak trees that are 200 years older than me, I hear birds chirping all day long, I see deer in the yard every night. The best part is, I can go an entire day without having to see a human being in the flesh. After living and working in Atlanta, this, for me, is heaven. Am I rich? Nah. And I’d welcome my friends who live in Atlanta if they wanted to flee the city. It’s just common sense.
6
@Corrie
"...most professional jobs can be done from home."
If you need to get tested, what will you do if the doctor refuses to come to you because he's working from home?
I'm glad you enjoy isolation, it obviously suits you. But some of enjoy real human contact for social interaction rather than Facebook or Twitter. Some of us enjoy visiting museums or going to the theater or concerts or ball games.
Some of us actually like to be around others of us.
Maybe that's why some of us "anybodies" want to live in a big city?
9
@Corrie
Different strokes for different folks. That's why Baskin and Robbins has 31 flavors. I live in a metro area with about 1.5 million people. I can walk to 6 different coffee shops in 10 minutes or less. A huge grocery in 5 minutes. Rural Alabama, famous for "strange fruit". Nope.
11
@Corrie And the massive pollution & dirt that comes with large cities and transportation. When I flew to NYC from abroad and walked to the office at 1am because of jet lag, I would literally walk in the middle of the street because of the large number of rats and cockroaches around.
On Monday there were close to 30 cases in the city. By noon on Saturday there were 216. If we were as serious about containment, it would be reasonable to expect the city to be locked down. China was serious about containment.
2
Sure, I'd rather be stuck in a house than an apartment, as long as I can still get food deliveries if infected. On the other hand if they go to their houses in the hamptons but don't adjust their behavior then they're still extremely at risk for infection. Social separation or isolation is the way to go here until we can all get tested, repeatedly.
8
What these New Yorkers don’t understand who are ‘escaping’ to their second homes, is that the medical services in the smaller rural and seaside towns may not be able to manage an influx of more people. They would be safer staying in the cities where they have access to larger, better equipped hospitals. Martha’s Vineyard Hospital for example, has a total of 21 beds and 3 ICU beds. These small rural hospitals will be overwhelmed.
24
@Nanita
As a year-round islander, I thank you for your comment. Plus, if the weather's bad the ferries and medivac helicopters are out of commission, so re-escaping to a metropolitan hospital can't happen.
Also, if the island doesn't have the virus, everyone of these people put the 17k people who live here at risk - and more than 22% are over 65 years old.
19
People are dying. This is a time to encourage unity, not to fan the flames or resentment and divineness , or to bash wealthy people for fleeing to second homes.
My grandparents were wealthy. They buried a four year old son who died of a childhood illness for which a vaccine was later invented. They bought a house in Ossining, and fled the City with their two surviving children in the hopes that evacuating their two surviving children to Ossining in the hopes that getting the family out of the City would protect their surviving children from the polio epidemic.
No amount of money can make up for burying a four year old.
If you haven't buried a child, you are wealthier than were my financially wealthy grandparents.
Can we keep the focus on doing everything within our power to contain the virus, such as engaging in social distancing, hand washing, using hand sanitizer (if one has been fortunate enough to procure some.My weeks' long search has been futile ) , reaching out to elderly neighbors to check up on them, and doing whatever we can to take care of ourselves and others during this dangerous time ?
Can we keep the focus on the grave situation in which we find ourselves, instead of engaging in pettiness, and "us " versus "them ?"Coronavirus is not going to spare rich people..
Those who survive coronavirus will have plenty of time to resume class warfare after all the dead are buried.
21
I feel it's helpful to read - for me - a piece in the paper that speaks to my own observations and experience of wanting to protect my family but knowing I can't because of money, but some people have the means to do a better job of staying safe in a dangerous time. I'm not mad at anybody, "the wealthy," or anyone else. I suppose I'm sometimes mad at myself that I'm not one of them. But newspaper articles that acknowledge the difference in experience based on finances of this and other emergencies... well they make me feel a little more sane. Better to talk about a thing and see each other, than let it fester. Such articles don't fan flames. I'm not rabid,; just broke. :) In the same way,I appreciate the story you shared about your grandparents and family. I cannot imagine... don't want to imagine. It helped me to see better too. Thank you.
14
It has made sense for many years to create fall back positions; it happened in Vermont during WW II and again after 9-11 (when I lived there).
Wealthy folks in San Francisco, Seattle, Boston, New York, etc. like having the option of a place to summer or winter in. They may even rent it out when not in use. In Vermont we called them summer people. Looking for statistics, best I could find was that around 5% of Americans own a "second home". Pandemics and global climate change will probably accelerate the process. Maybe a van down by the river for the rest of us?
I think that the belief that the top 1%, or the top .1%, exerts more influence than the "common" citizen on Congress, or even on Donald Trump, might be at the bottom of all of this resentment that you are reading here. The wealthy has enabled the "stable genius" sitting at the head of our government while the pandemic unfolds. The wealthy has put these people in charge and now can escape to their safe retreats and leave the rest of us. Of course this is not fair. Many wealthy people despise this government as well.
But there is a smoldering resentment that the wealthy are living charmed lives, not paying their fair share and now won't share our fate if things go poorly with this pandemic. It is a corrosive one for our society and our democracy.
Maybe the key is not to focus on the ones who are "fleeing". Focus on your neighbors who are stayng instead. And be kind. Be helpful. And God bless...
11
Could choosing to reside in the vast red areas on the map be considered one’s fall back position?
1
Was it F. Scott Fitzgerald who said 'the rich are different, they have more money'. And Cyndy Lauper who sang 'money changes everything.'
Money is the difference between life and death. And government is supposed to mitigate the inequities, not exacerbate them.
9
No, it was Hemingway who wryly retorted to Fitzgerald's fawning observation, "The rich are different from you and me": "Yes, they have more money."
8
@B.
Obversely, in the 18th century, the feminist Mary Wollstonecraft observed that the problem with the poor is that they don't have any money.
1
On behalf of those of us who live in the Hamptons, I'm wondering why rich people heading east don't realize we're struggling with this issue, too. There is no escape from this virus, not even for those with all the money in the world.
Although I suppose they can contact the subjects of another article today, ie, the "entrepreneurs" who went out and scooped up all the Purell and N-95 masks, so they could sell them on Amazon at a ridiculous profit and benefit from other's misfortune. For the right price, the rich can secure all the sanitizer and wipes and masks to be had in the US and, I guess, just envelope themselves. Good luck to the hospitals, who need them and can't get them.
17
@Cirincis, I'm one of the selfish ones who stopped by a favorite restaurant after brunch and overheard chatter about the location of the price gougers just revealing enough for them to get robbed.
we would take our kids in in the great northwoods of NH but they can't afford to come. They'd lose jobs.
we didn't retreat here, we live up here which apparently has occasional advantages.
Who Knew?
4
The west village felt relatively quiet all day however as I took my dog for a walk this evening, I (we) walked by a bar on W. 10th was *packed* with people all acting “normal” (meaning as if there was no threat of spreading or catching the virus).
It was disturbing to see.
The number of cases will rise as more tests become available and to think that hospitals may be overwhelmed because of careless behavior is infuriating.
32
My son is escaping NYC to our farm in Wisconsin. But I wonder if the tornado's, that occur ever more frequently and violently, especially in the upcoming springtime, might be even more dangerous.
Meanwhile, I'm more or less stuck in Iceland where their laissez-faire attitude, which scoffs at Denmark's closing of their borders, has resulted in the highest per capita rate of the virus on the planet. Iceland does always like to be number one.
18
I’ll take a relatively rare Wisconsin tornado over a virus any day.
7
@Stacy K.
Au contraire. Wisconsin is in Tornado Alley and the number and severity has been rising no thanks to that other crisis Trump likes to deny.
3
The rich in New York: I never see them and don't interact with them. Not on the subways; not in the public schools; not in the balcony seats. I won't miss them. I won't know they're gone.
32
I live in a semi-rural area. Far too many people have moved here but if you drive an hour south you get the huge population explosion of NW Arkansas so I feel fortunate that we don't have anything they want.
I like the quieter places.
I have shopped the last three weeks to keep us in food and supplies for the next three months. I have not hoarded or bought the stores out. I bought just enough wipes and hand sanitizer for my husband and myself. (I've been following the Times coverage on this virus since late December.)
I did probably go a little overboard on the cat litter. Forgive me for that, please.
Among other things, I bought canned meats, pasta, rice, canned fruits & vegetables, disinfectant, bleach, laundry soap, toilet paper, batteries etc. Btw, I have 4 gallons of bleach. Not 40. I have 3 boxes of dishwasher powder, not 30. 2 bottles of Tylenol and Advil. Same for the toilet paper. Only what we need.
I saw a list on the NYTimes and followed that.
I saw this coming and I have gotten my pets their vet checkups and medications filled. We have filled our own medications as far ahead as possible.
We have spent money we would have saved to do these things because we consider them emergency measures.
PS...get a reliable thermometer in case someone gets a fever. And I pray for your safety.
33
'There is a lot of money here in our green valley' is a recurring refrain, accompanied by knowing eyes and a slight head tilt of defiance. On occasion I ask whether there are crocks of gold hidden in the luscious lawns by the rich leprechauns.
Working in the corporate world in The City lights, you are informed that those in possession of a country house are living in the best of both worlds.
For centuries, The Rich have fled from Cholera and other city plagues to fresher horizons in the hills and farms, and if you revisit history, this is an ongoing pattern.
In the 80s and 90s, there was the weekend migration of the powerful from New York to Southampton in the Hamptons, and I forgot to tell my boss that Bill Paley had offered him a ride via helicopter. I got to hear about it via phone on Saturday night because my boss had just been offered by Mr. Paley some home-grown tomatoes from his garden, in the days of helicopter-thinking.
Now. We may be in for a longer haul than a weekend. This earlier immigration than expected to rural pastures and scenic views may have left the full-time dwellers unprepared to give our city folk what they have taken for granted.
Kudos to The Wilburton in Vermont for its wit, which always carries an element of truth, and let us remember that our farms and its industrious workers have been lingering under this administration; good-will tolerance for grouses is in deficit and short supply.
Woodstock appears ready.
4
Left for my country home about a week ago. Redwood house on acreage. Small wine valley with only about 1100 people, two and a half hours north of San Francisco. The regulars meet for coffee at the local cafe every morning. Not many outsiders as there are few places to stay. We call them "Brightlighters" in Boontling our local language/lingo. Everyone is getting a little "can kicky" now. But so far so good.
4
I've read so much derision leveled at rural people in NYTimes comment sections. Now the urban go to infect them? I wouldn't be shocked if rural people blocked the highways.
15
@gw
"I've read so much derision leveled at rural people in NYTimes comment sections. "
Don't worry about it. Trump was rural people's revenge on city folk. Who's laughing now?! Trump: A national IQ test...failed.
The escapees may be bringing infection with them to the Hamptons, upstate NY, etc. Asymptomatic people can be contagious.
15
And to, I would think, smaller hospitals?
10
They will find out soon enough that they cannot get by without common folk.
9
The gist of this article and the panic buying, (I've been wondering why toilet paper, since coronavirus does not cause intestinal problems!) brought in mind what our Governor said in one of his briefings:
If you hear something really wild, use your New Yorker common sense. Clearly the majority of our co-citizens did not! hopefully things will calm down a bit now especially if mass testing starts.
4
@Anna T. - During disasters like hurricanes, tornadoes,
flooding, earthquakes people flee to shelters, evacuate
etc. When they do the most requested item or shortages
is TOILET PAPER.
3
So people that worked hard and bought extra houses can’t use them cause it’s not fair? Let’s stop the socialist banter.
19
@Bob They shouldn't use them, because: A) there's no point, as you can't "outrun a virus" -- and B) Theyre's a high probability that you're bringing the virus with you (en masse) to an area that has FAR fewer resources. This 1% may have "worked hard" but they gained little logic along the way.
7
They were able to buy a second house because the worked harder? In all honesty, I highly doubt they worked any harder than the huge number of Americans who are working multiple jobs to barely scrape by. I work with and know those people, I am one of them. They are getting up at the crack of dawn to start their first shift, racing out the door to get to there second job and getting home at midnight. They do that 6 or 7 days a week.
11
How about they buy extra hospital beds and pay for their poor neighbors groceries who live there year round while they’re at it
1
Yuk! Can we do a cultural exchange program — our house on the East End of Long Island for a townhome on the Upper East Side for the duration of the crisis? I’m up for it!
7
@H. Clark
you could probably do this every weekend of any summer.
3
Has it not occurred to people that the people we want most to avoid are those rich white people who travel frequently? We were to attend a lovely symphony concert in Madison, WI on March 8. We did not go. The attendees at the Sunday matinee are pretty much the well heeled white folks who travel internationally all the time because their retirement communities get boring. The chances of one or more carrying the virus was greater than we wanted to risk.
21
@Sara some would consider you well heeled for going to the concert and make a negative comment about you. It’s too bad people feel the need to spew hate on strangers with generalizations.
It is only welcome... The less people populate the city, the less the virus ravages its citizens. If the rich can afford to go to private hospitals in the Hamptons, so be it. Who cares?
4
Asymptomatic transmission means those people could then spread the virus to locations that wouldn't have otherwise been exposed. The movement therefore puts the entire country at risk because it continues spreading the virus.
Italy ignored the need to restrict movement, and now their medical system does not have enough equipment to treat everyone. The United States will experience something similar in about one week or sooner if we don't restrict movement.
10
I can't afford a 2nd home-my 401k just became a 201k....again! Thanks don!
33
No one with a passing knowledge how contagious disease has affected populations in past pandemics should be surprised by any behaviors reported. It was reported that Pope Clement VI lived most of winter 1348-49 in a Vatican courtyard surrounded by continuously tended fires.
It worked; he made it. Peter Baker and Katie Rogers of the nytimes report Mar-a-Lago was a little hotbed of viral movers and shakers last weekend. Perhaps Clement’s approach is worth consideration by Trump. Surrounded by fires and already in hot water.
The virus is survivable. People scare the beegeebers out of me. As a society, we are about to get slam-dunked to the bottom of Maslow’s Hierarchy. Let’s be kind to each other on the way down and on the way back up.
18
How unfortunate: Hordes of city dwellers will descend on the Hamptons and merely transmit the infection from Madison Avenue to Montauk Highway. FYI: There’s ONE hospital on the South Fork, and we already have our own cases of coronavirus. Not smart, unkind.
21
@H. Clark :
Wow. There are so many super rich in NY, it qualifies as "hordes". Plural. More than ONE horde of super rich.
I never knew.
2
The rich die too.
10
It's not necessarily just the rich moving to their weekend homes. With her company on lockdown, my sister and her husband just pulled their 7 year daughter from school and went to Vermont to stay with her in-laws. I imagine a lot of ordinary people who can get away from their jobs might take refuge with relatives elsewhere. If deBlasio comes to his senses and shuts down the schools, there might be even more exodus.
78
@jimmunology Wouldn’t that just push the potential medical needs on to Vermont and its tiny healthcare system?
35
@jimmunology Didn't your sister put stress on her in-laws by staying with them? The presumably over-60 couple now has 3 more chances to get the virus, with a presumably lesser immune system. Doesn't seem a situation that I'd allow. My husband has asthma and high blood pressure. I am on cancer medication and am over 60. I'm not allowing any of my family near us until the medical professionals say it's safe.
47
@Todd Eastman One may not need medical care in Vermont if one can stay isolated.
8
What makes this privileged class think that they are immune at their second homes?
142
@SheBear less density, less exposure....get it all delivered.
21
@SheBear It is not immunity. Anyone with any brain knows that no one has immunity. It is slowing down the rate of infection. It is "flattening the curve". It is their responsibility, if they can thin the crowd and lighten the load in NYC, to get out of town for a while and stay healthy in order not to be a burden.
In this we are all human to the viruses.
The viruses don't care what percent you are.
51
@Sad Sack It only makes sense if they do social distancing. If they lead normal lives in the Hamptons, they are just spreading the problem.
36
Whether someone is visiting a second estate, a modest cottage or family out of town, I think leaving the city if at all possible is the responsible think to do. Every person who has to stay will need a share of resources. Every person who is able to evacuate relieves a bit of strain.
280
@Barb Franco And might transmit the disease to smaller communities and be a strain on them.
There is no way to escape this, as rich and poor will find out, if at different times or with differing outcomes: we are all living in the same polder and the water's rising, to use an apt image from Jared Diamond.
I frankly doubt the majority of Americans will be able to see this as not about themselves alone, and that, too, will help the virus.
57
Less strain to the resources in the city, but much more to the areas that are not prepared for the influx. The east end of Long Island already is out of many necessities, including medical supplies, grocery items and access to doctors appointments. How will unprepared municipalities cope with added residents fleeing to summer homes?
37
@Barb Franco - A lot of places that people are heading to are just gearing up for a spate of infections. We now have 4 confirmed cases in Dutchess County - and that might be how many test kits we had, too. The real count is likely to be, just as it is everywhere else, significantly higher. Given that they just shut down all the schools and closed churches during Lent, I'd have to say that we are fearful that we don't have enough capacity for our base population.
Our hospitals are not as large or as equipped with critical care capacity. The farther you get form the city, the truer this is.
So it is quite possible that relieving a bit of strain on the city might just transfer it to a place even less prepared.
40
We’re a NYC family with two kids on scholarships in a wealthy private school. We have lots of affluent friends with Hamptons and CT homes. They’re good people and I see nothing wrong with their going over there. Our school may not reopen after Spring Break and what is one to do in a NYC apartment? At least out there you can go into a yard and breathe fresh air. I’d go in an instant.
380
Hmmm. I appreciate that very wealthy people can be kind and are human, like
the rest of us. That you have all exited the public school system - because of its poorer quality and fewer resources - and that you can afford to do so with an apartment or a home in the Hampton’s is exactly why our economic system is so unequal. People cannot buy their way out of public ed in Finland, Japan and Germany because it is THE option.
Only some can buy their way out in the US. 100,000 homeless children are in the NYC public school system, which must remain open for as long as possible. While others escape to their second mansion.
THAT is the perfect example of dramatic and draconian income inequality in America
107
“What is one to do in a New York City Apartment?” Listen to yourself! There are some children who won’t be having a meal. Some families will have to make do in homeless shelters. Try to understand that!!!
156
@kfm
Would there be something wrong with it if they were “bad people.” As long as it is their property, what does your judgements about matter?
People who take of number one at least unburden the rest of us of rescuing that one. Your first duty to your neighbor is to take care of yourself
10
The wealthy are going to do what the wealthy do. Royalty and the nobility fled to the countryside in the mid 1300s with the plague; no different dynamic today.
224
@Casual Observer - trump's government house and
his private club (and other properties) seem to be
awash in people coming and going and testing
positive for the virus.
22
@Casual Observer
1600s too.
9
So that's why NYC is a ghost town. Less germs in the elevators. Must be nice to have that option.
4
The thought. . .you can run, but you cannot hide, comes to mind.
3
Who cares? They have every right to do what they want.
10
We are heading to our cottage. Safer because there are fewer people there too. What is wrong with fleeing to a second home if you have one?
113
@Vanessa There is nothing wrong with it.
28
Just remember - people in the local community might not be able to afford to panic shop. If you clean out the stores, consider also donating to the local food pantry
49
@Vanessa I think what is wrong to some people is that you can be lucky (yes lucky) enough to have a second home, when most New Yorkers are struggling to pay rent on one place. Maybe just keep that fact a secret from the 99%.
32
Isn't that just as well that those who have second homes, go to them? Of course they could be bringing the virus there but if they stay cordoned off in their 8 bedroom, 7 bath cottages, with plenty of toilet paper and pasta, won't that be a better thing?
6
During the black death nobility would flee to secluded estates when the plague reached their area. Here we are almost 700 years later. What has changed?
5
Dear Mom and Dad,
Katja and I made it out to the refabbed silo in Idaho on the Callenger. Many neighbors from Atherton are out here, too, but, as you can imagine, we're putting off seeing them from now. Turns out, though, that the conferencing stuff from Zoom works pretty well under the circumstances. We're concerned, of course, about our employees (Tim and I talked about that), but so we're letting them work remotely. I wonder what Jeff is going to do about his warehouse and delivery people. Not much for the contractors, I'd guess -- one of the great features of outsourcing. But at least they are better than the retail people at Walgreens.
Anyway, the kids are doing great, and will be going to school using the online stuff.
Wish you could be here (not really),
Love and elbow bumps,
S
10
I'm disheartened by the lack of altruism in the article and in the comments, altruism that was espoused in these very pages a few days back.
I try to turn the other cheek a lot (and I almost always succeed) but I am finding it difficult. From the article to the comments it seems people are always looking out for themselves only. I'm sure there are thousands of stories of people doing the opposite but why not focus on that (that goes for article writers and commenters too).
I'll start: We had a medical student here (not Asian) who travelled to one of the Asian countries on the front lines to provide care for the infected. (We ourselves are working on therapeutics against SARS-CoV-2 - we have some solutions and they are published and some are in clinical trials already now.)
8
Yes! Time for the good and great stories - they will carry us through! More, New York Times, more of the good stories, please.
One supposes that during a pandemic, when everyone is afraid of the doom possibly lurking in the person next to him or her in the grocery store, it is only natural to believe that persons of wealth and privilege are cheating.
Such suspicions are heightened when the political leader of the country – a wealthy man -- has botched national preparedness for a deadly and highly infectious virus by (1) spending three years dismantling the nation’s early defense system and (2) then waited three months to respond to the news of widespread cases and thousands of deaths in the country of origin, China, and (3) finally branded the pandemic a hoax perpetrated by his political opponents and (4) spread the false word that the disease was not a serious health problem.
As it turns out, some upper-class people are cheating, in a fashion, by moving to second homes in the suburbs, after a fake report of a lockdown in the central city. The resentment of citizens stuck in the central city – where, by the way, the good hospitals and physicians are located – is less understandable than the challenges now presented to the natives of those suburban havens.
Ironically, though I am not a person of particular wealth or privilege, I type this comment as I eagerly await exiting a month early from our second home in Palm Beach, where the effects of the pandemic are increasing, to Cleveland, where we pay our taxes and vote -- and where the good hospitals and physicians are located.
8
Whether we envy the rich or not, they're not crazy for going someplace where social distancing is easier... and the rest of us are better off if our cities become less dense for their absence.
20
Great. They’ve been flocking here, to my island, which has zero cases at the moment but with all the seasonal homeowners deciding that they’re better off at their homes on Nantucket instead of being in NYC or Palm Beach, or Fairfield, they don’t realize that they may bring it here, or the Hampton’s or elsewhere it isn’t currently.
13
With their vacation / seasonal boosts to your economy - come costs. Here you go.
Commuters have been traveling in and out of the city, every day, for weeks since the first NYC case broke. If you’re worried about suburban spread, we’re well past that.
People have the right to go where they feel safe. Rich or poor, people who have another place to go are fleeing the city because social distancing is a moral obligation at this point. Class has nothing to do with it. You’re blaming them for leaving one of the most densely populated cities on earth during an international crisis... citing that someone’s grocery store parking lot was too busy?
We need to work together and support one another now more than ever. A reinvigorated sense of respect and love towards others might be the only positive that can come out of something so devastating. Articles like these undermine that.
Would’ve expected this from the Post, not the Times.
23
I didn't pick up a terribly judgemental tone at all in the article. Think it was merely reporting the facts: that people who have other places to go, are going.
These folks pay property taxes for their second homes. They actually keep these upstate counties afloat. They have a right to be there.
31
After seeing reports of groups of younger people at bars and clubs, a generation who can’t spare a night out and with no concern for the health of others, anyone over 50 who could leave the city would be crazy not to do so. The irony is that this is the “woke” generation, all Green New Deal and Loan Forgiveness, that they want paid with my tax dollars. Fat chance.
11
@LTJ Actually to the extent, the victims are the older people (rich or poor). The virus is really a low risk proposition for anyone younger - they don't need to worry about it except as being for vectors but this could just me mother nature's way of wiping out older people.
So let the older people leave, and let the younger people stay and party or whatever. IF young people have no interactions with older people then there's no reason for them to not risk exposure.
Besides, they could also be Republicans.
4
@RamS Actually, many of the severely affected are young adults.
1
@LTJ
I agree that their actions are misguided and self-defeating. But lets place the blame where it's due.
Not on the woke generation, but on the people that promoted a system that requires at minimum a 4 degree and often crippling debt as the price of entry to make a living wage.
These same liberal institutions teach them most of their wokeness and let them know who they should blame for their struggles and all the other ill's of the world. And as a final bonus, how to shut down, vilify and cancel any people or opinions that run counter to their narrative.
1
Fake news galore is what enables US its medical experiment, to use her old and vulnerable as a gambit during this crisis.
1
What is the purpose of this article? One percenters? Everyone will do whatever they can to protect themselves.
I can only infer that the purpose of this article is to rupture any scicial cohesion that exists and promote class warfare.
18
@Garry Sklar You don't think the upper class is deserving of it?
Oh, sure. Daisy and Tom Buchanan left Town. And they packed a little extra, along with their LV luggage. The Rich are not only different and careless, but very often deadly to we peons. But they will be fine, and back to pillaging and plundering in no time.
Right, Ivanka and Jared ???
Sad.
12
Shades of Boccaccio's Decameron.
Unfortunately for today's wealthy "me-first" New Yorkers, this time the "plague" isn't confined within the city limits.
They've committed two colossal mistakes: (1) acting on rumor, and (2) acting on the artifact of Trump administration's criminally negligent delay in testing.
As testing finally gets underway in the next couple of weeks, it will reveal widespread community transmission throughout the tristate region. Just consider the fact that New Rochelle's Patient Zero commuted on Metro North before he became ill. Those trains went back and forth from New Haven to Grand Central Station again and again for days, sending hundreds of thousands of commuters all over the region.
That's just one example. Given the number of cases in the Northeast with no known contacts to either travel or an infected person, you have to assume there are thousands of others.
But of course the're wealthy because of their greater intelligence and overall Social Darwinian superiority, so I'm sure they'll figure something out ... no doubt while staying healthy and "boosting their immune system" pumping iron at Barry's boutique gym.
10
@Someone
Buck up, by definition, a boutique gym is small and makes the necessary social distance of 3' virtually impossible, so Barry's is destined for closure.
What could be more quintessentially American than wealthy people fleeing to what they consider secure redoubts, while leaving the rest of us to fend for ourselves? But what they overlook is that without the 99%, the 1% will eventually be unable to provide for themselves. What happens when the food runs out: will they grow crops or hunt meat? Will they be able to run sanitation systems or keep the electrical grid going? We are all dependent on each other, and we're all in this together, like it or not.
17
@lydgate It is a given among preppers that wild game like deer and squirrels will quickly be hunted to near zero. One had better be armed to defend ones stock piled provisions (like toilet paper) in their secure redoubts from ravaging gangs.
1
Please. NYC is better off without my husband and me competing for resources, and we are more comfortable in our house in the woods in CT than in our cramped NY apartment. Just makes more sense for us to be here in CT, and everyone benefits. What's the big deal?
25
As a resident of rural Vermont, I wish all of the wealthy flatlanders would stay out of my state and my tiny grocery store. I have three rolls of TP left and little hope of finding more. Panic shop BEFORE you get here!
22
What was the phrase? Something about rats and a sinking ship?
8
So.
I guess nobody learned from that Oscar-winning movie.
4
There's a strange, Jungian appropriateness with Emma Bloomberg being a part of these rumors, since her father oversaw the closing of hospitals throughout the city. St. Vincent's Hospital, which had been serving the Village and Lower Werst Side since the 1840's, was replaced by apartments and town houses for the rich.
Mike got it done, all right. The problem is that neoliberalism will kill you, as we're about to see.
13
Now that telecommuting has become mandatory in my office I am considering leaving Boston with my husband to basically quarantine with my parents who are in their late sixties living in a city suburb of Virginia. We would drive straight to their home. Is that grossly irresponsible? I just want to be around family during this time.
2
I wouldn't just because of their age and the long incubation period of the virus.
10
Makes perfect sense. Try and get tested and wait two weeks. If you can’t do that and still want to go, just be super careful all together. Get outside and exercise and make sure that everyone stays well. Good luck!
The 1% percent are just as vulnerable as anyone else ; the virus does not distinguish between hosts . Since they are used to being cared for , I would guess they are most likely less immune to assault to their immune systems than the regular herd . Escaping to a second home is equal to those hoarding ; it is sheer panic . However; the regular Joe is more adept at surviving as opposed to the wealthy that are used to paying to be taken care of . Sometimes all the money in the world cannot not buy you everything .
8
A lot of doctors and some nurses are part of the 1 percent so these vacation enclaves should be well provisioned with medical talent, at least compared to those queuing for Medicaid and charity clinics.
1
@Rick
A sudden increase in doctors and nurses does not mean that the people who are riding out the pandemic in rural upscale areas would get better care than they would in NYC.
Vacationing doctors and nurses would not bring extra hospital beds, isolation rooms, ventilators, and respiratory care therapists with them. Also, during a pandemic such as this, there will be more overtime and fewer vacations.
It takes time to build capacity and it is likely that small rural hospitals are planning on transferring coronavirus cases to large urban hospitals once they are stabilized.
3
Last I checked the COVID-19 does not need a gps to find you nor can you hide from it
11
Sleeping outdoors, terraces, roofs, camping in national parks anyone?
3
I'd like to see as many people as possible who have second homes leave New York and use them. (My family does not).
Fewer people means somewhat shorter lines at supermarkets, easier social distancing, perhaps fewer hospital beds needed.
If Ms. Bellafante is just realizing now that it's better to be rich than poor, I'd say she's a little late to the party.
20
As did the French aristocracy upon the fall of Louis XVI.
6
I vaguely remember a panic set off by a rumor in the early 90's. The business I worked at closed early so everyone could get home. It had something to do with a riot over an incident in Brooklyn. Hordes were supposed to crossing the Brooklyn Bridge in to Manhattan. It was supposed to be worse than the looting that occurred during the blackouts. Nothing came of it.
1
Wow, wild comments on this one. I have lived in the Hampton's for the past twenty years after living in Manhattan for twenty seven years. Retired from the NYPD (1969-93). Worked on the upper east side, Spanish Harlem, Williamsburg (when it was really dangerous!) I've seen it all. Never have made much more than 100K a year in my life. I am a fishing guide and pro photographer out here. Put that together with my pension and SS and I get by every year. A very high percentage of the year rounders out here depend on the second home owners for the bulk of their income. Very substantial Latino community which is almost 100% dependent on second home owners(landscapers, construction workers, restaurant employees, etc.) Sad to see all this class warfare posted on the comments. Remarkable the anger that comes out when people get fearful. Second home owners are just like everyone else, some terrific, some awful most just regular folks. Lighten up folks. I'm a product of the 60's, lets love one another as the song says!!
152
@JL Well said, JL! Everyone needs to take a breather!
5
Best and sanest comment here - the author should do an interview with you next round. Stay well - and post more!
6
This article’s tone is needlessly derogatory towards the wealthy.
Limiting social contact by staying home, whether in an apartment in the city or a house somewhere else, is good for for everyone.
24
@Joe You can't do it if you work for a living, ned to go to stores for supplies, travel--including the elevators. People with money are--as usual, clueless how people without it survive--or don't.
5
If our government actually allowed widespread Coronavirus testing like they have in, say, Australia, then people could test before going to their second home it their travel will infect their second home community. But I suppose widespread testing will increase the infected numbers and THAT might disprove the virus being a “hoax created by Democrats trying to impeach the president.” Things that apparently are most important to protect at all cost
13
@Long Islander haha....so Trump's "leadership" has nothing to do with our current chaos and lack of tests?
My husband’s parents live off a dirt road in the middle of nowhere, maybe 7 miles to the nearest town. I’m a physician and will not leave; I suggested he go there at last until the acute stage of this crisis passes. He says he’s not going unless I go and he understands why I’m not going. He works from home anyway, so I’ll be the biggest risk factor to him and that is a deeply unsettling fact.
35
This is a time-honored American tradition of every person for themselves. Wealthy 19th century urban Americans fled for their country homes in the wake of many outbreaks of yellow fever and other contagious diseases. The poor and those with no where else to go suffered the worst casualties.
17
@Historian of medicine
Rugged individualism, fetishized self-reliance and rabid competition have rendered social cohesion in America highly unlikely even in a crisis. Selfishness is venerated in the land of the free.
2
Take a chill pill. There's billions of us. Some of us are just going to have to accept our fates and take one for humanity if we get sick. There's too many of us anyway.
Hoarding is probably worse than just someone moving away from the city. The selfishness of hoarding induces other people to come out unnecessarily to make sure they get theirs. All this extra activity is more likely to create an environment for disease spreading than would otherwise. I didn't stock up on anything. Come what may.
The only goal is to make sure you're reducing any risks you have to others. Forget about yourself for a second. How do you all live when you're all so afraid of dying?
16
The rich can pile into the East Hamptons General Hospital for world-class treatment when they show the signs and symptoms of covid-19. Never mind the modest hospitals in NYC.
8
This is exactly what happened during the Black Death in Europe, albeit a far worse scenario. The rich scarpered and took it with them to places that didn't previously have it. If you want a fascinating read about a sacrificial but extreme response to the plague, look up the village of Eyam in Derbyshire, UK.
11
Geraldine Brooks novel Year of Wonders is based on this historic event.
9
@Mandylouwho
And plague first came to Eyam through a flea-infested bundle of cloth sent to a local tailor from London.
Oh, you got the coronavirus in NYC? How pedestrian. I got mine in the Hamptons.
62
And when covid-19 makes a strong appearance in the Hamptons (or whatever rural area those with secondary real estate fled to) I suppose we'll have another article about how the 1% are using private planes to be flown to hospitals that have available ICU beds.
20
The five stages of grief
Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance
The five stages of a pandemic
Anxiety
Panic
Hoarding
Acceptance
Anger
There comes a point where people get tired of worrying, the mind moves to hero mode, and you simply don’t care about the worse case scenario. People can’t change the situation, so they stop worrying about and get angry at it, and their mindset changes over to the attack. Before this is over you will see people volunteering to help patrol, pick up trash, and a million other ways. We will best this in a very American way. We don’t surrender, we fight.
The real problem from a psychological outlook is all the news is negative, what we need is the opposite, Hope. Show us the people who have recovered , show us the people, tell us their stories. Every recovery is a milestone. When a cancer patient reaches a full recovery they ring a bell, we need to see people ringing that bell, then we will see that most people make a full recovery and then people will not be afraid anymore.
It’s the way the story is being told which is the problem, the media can’t help itself and is absolutely causing panic.this is a monumental time in our history , and all of us, everyone should be enlisted in the fight. Americans have one defining characteristic, we love a challenge, and usually rise to it. Everyone who catches the virus should see themselves as a vital soldier in a new army, dedicated to fight the virus. Everyone is now drafted. We can do this.
31
@Lonnie Bless you Lonnie!!
Let's look forward. Try to help a few extra people who might not be as smart or as well prepared. Save the criticism until the worst of the crisis is over. Try not to be selfish. Use common sense. And then before the next unexpected shock comes along, plan ahead.
8
In his book "Richistan," Robert Frank correctly points out that the rich are citizens of their own virtual country and are not necessarily affected by, or need to care about, little things like pandemics. Their "people" will take care of them. All will be well.
8
Sadly, the city should have gone into lockdown two weeks ago. Movie theaters, restaurants, bars, non-essential stores, and schools closed. While you make fun of the rich, it will be the working poor and older residents who will suffer the most because of this neglect. The mayor of Amity Island resides in Gracie Mansion.
19
My wife and I worked hard for what we have, including a beach house, which we rent out when we're not there. But it's early in the season; we might be there soon before the renters show up - if they do in this paranoid time. I'm grateful to have an alternate place to go if needed.
An observation, please: I'm one liberal who is tired of being demonized by less financially-successful liberals for what success I have. We earned it through honest work and smart spending and saving. Thirty years ago I couldn't rub two quarters together without owing one of them, but I worked my way out of it. Being successful and being liberal are not antithetical, and I'm not ashamed of either. We get enough class warfare from the right; "friendly fire" is counterproductive.
141
@CP
I must've missed the hate on people who are well off that was included in this article. I thought the story was about how a made up rumor took on a false reality and people didn't brother to think but over reacted
.
As adults we need to stop being in a Trump movie that never has a happy ending for anyone
If you have a second home then God bless you . There is no panic and no one has anything against people who are well off.
Maybe in the red states but not in NYC.
Be safe and take care of each other. We are all in this chapter of life together.
21
@CP Having a vacation home (or two) hardly lands you in the one-per-cent (or 1/2 of one-per-cent). Do you have your own jet? I think that was the subject of the article. Peace, stay well, and prosper.
8
@CP Well said. The author also doesn't appreciate the correlation between age and the ability to have a second home and the current elevated risk for those over 60. Many people I know that have left the city if they can are elderly or dealing with cancer and HIV.
13
Not sure what value this article adds to the Covid-19 conversation. But ok. By the way, we have an upstate home and we are hardly wealthy. And we aren’t heading there because we are still in the city working. Not every situation warrants the opportunity to point out how we in society differ. Now is, instead, precisely the perfect time to focus on the exact opposite.
38
Weren’t not wealthy, we can just afford two more home than many other people can /s. ugh, spare me
8
Do we really have to turn on each other now? So people with means are leaving the density of the city for the comfort and presumed safety of their country homes. Can you really blame them. There is nothing that they can contribute by staying other than adding to the population density and buying groceries that others need. Not to mention utilizing potentially overtaxed medical system. Their absence only makes it a bit easier on the rest of us. I'm very moved by the people in Italy who are forced to stay home and have chosen to make music and sing the national anthem in support of their medical workers. That's solidarity. We really need some of that right now instead of people hoarding toilet paper and resenting others for having other options.
47
@LeeBee
China and other Asian countries stopped this virus by prohibiting all movement, Or in the case of Japan South Korea, had working rapid testing that allowed them to figure who could move and who couldn’t. It worked. Since we won’t have that testing for another 2 to 4 weeks, we’ve got a practice with the Chinese did successfully.
The bubonic plague was spread by the rich leaving the cities and spreading it around the country. Most people leaving are not of the age where they really have to worry about this, just a specter of possibility. Instead they will likely bring subclinical disease with them to explode in the countryside where the elderly live.
Another trend I have noted is grandparents parents and children all coming up together to stay in the same place.That’s a great way for the grandchildren to give it to their grandparents which could be fatal. I think it makes sense for the grandparents to get out of town possibly but for gods sake the parents and children should stay home and Drown this thing in the bathtub, by staying at home. They’ll make it. They just don’t want to give it to the elderly.
Hence, the accusation of selfishness
11
Based upon the empty shelves at my local grocery store this morning, I'd say the New Yorkers have already arrived. I say welcome; this is probably a pretty good place ride out whatever this is going to be. Just keep washing your hands, please.
24
Can we stop the class war for once, both rich, e.g. Tom Hanks, and poor are affected.
32
@DL Hanks deserved it for "Joe Vs The Volcano"
2
This will be one of the key failures of the administration and a major mechanism for disease distribution. In the absence of accurate testing which the South Koreans used to contain this rationally, the Chinese method of shutting down the country for 10 days has worked and is the method that we need to consider. They are getting very few cases these days as people basically suffocated the illnesses in their own houses and did their patriotic duty. People did not distribute the disease across the country as these wealthy folks will be doing, whether they like it or not. Regional hospitals will be more overwhelmed, particularly as the countryside is predominantly elderly. Middle-aged and older folks will have a better chance of being seen in urban hospitals which have many more beds. If the president had been wise, he would’ve had everybody coming back from anywhere overseas self Quarantine for 14 days and to ban travel inside the country. He needs to explain these facts, but he is unable to understand them or unwilling to share them for fear that the market will crash further and that this will reflect upon him. Ultimately, the market cannot sustain the uncertainty brought on by him. Now that he’s letting potentially sick people back into the country without adequate screening, and letting unscreened people move all over the country, things will really get complicated and we will not recover as quickly as we could’ve if we were strong and strict in the beginning.
23
@Boxengo Trump didn't take the situation seriously enough while other countries arebattling.
from NYT report :
Jan. 29
Cases have been reported in 17 countries.
In China, the outbreak has surpassed that of SARS.
Five cases are confirmed in the U.S.
Mr. Trump tweeted:
“Just received a briefing on the Coronavirus in China from all of our GREAT agencies, who are also working closely with China. We will continue to monitor the ongoing developments. We have the best experts anywhere in the world, and they are on top of it 24/7!”
Feb. 2
The death toll has topped 300, including the first fatality outside China. The World Health Organization and U.S. have declared a public health emergency.
Mr. Trump spoke with the Fox News personality Sean Hannity:
“We pretty much shut it down coming in from China,” Mr. Trump said of the coronavirus. “But we can’t have thousands of people coming in who may have this problem, the coronavirus. So, we’re going to see what happens, but we did shut it down, yes.”
1
Local Vacation Rental Companies are advertising ‘Unexpected Leave. Come to the Outer Banks. Experience uncrowned beaches with fresh ocean air. ‘ what they don’t tell you is that this island has a very small hospital, no seasonal workers, and no toilet paper on the shelves. I’m waiting to see a drive by testing facility on our local Walmart parking lot.
16
Don't forget the Berkshires. The road from the Taconic was a steady stream of New York license plates this morning. They were headed to our fancy grocery store, where the line at the meat counter was twenty-five people long the moment they opened the doors this morning. I suggested out loud, "Guess it pays to be vegetarian." I got no smiles, but then, I didn't get any eye to eye contact, either.
46
@sheela Would I be correct in thinking there was less than six feet "social distancing" in the line of twenty-five people at your meat counter? This morning in Portland, Oregon, where I live, the store was much too crowded for much distancing, but folks seemed to make up for that by moving around extra fast. The auto traffic seemed especially speedy, also. It was as if people thought that the less time they were away from their homes the less exposure they had. Why are we so irrational? Why can't they react calmly like I do? I'm busy constructing an igloo out of toilet paper in the basement. All I need is another two hundred rolls...
10
I suspect that people are less afraid of the virus than they are of the lockdown. Two weeks (or more) of quarantine-like restrictions ain't no joke.
5
@laurence
Do you think that’s worse than the virus?
We all need to sacrifice something right now, and you have to think beto d your personal inconvenience. Your and too many others’ willingness to emphasize that what will be difference between the Asian countries that stopped the virus in its tracks, and the disaster that’s going to happen here if we’re not more civic and selfless.
12
@laurence, we got a stack of books from our local library. Two weeks and a long life afterward beats dying young, wouldn't you say?
6
@laurence
...... Italy to close all stores except for grocery stores, pharmacies, and those selling 'essentials' in a bid to prevent the spread of the coronavirus.
So, why the panic shopping?
2
The best protection and preventative from the rapid spread of this virus is to wear a face mask. The CDC has made a grave mistake in recommending against this. Due to the current shortage of store-bought masks, self-made masks can be fashioned from handkerchiefs, scarves, other fabric, etc. While not perfect, they will prevent much of the potential spread of this disease, especially if they are handled carefully and sanitized regularly (rubbing alchohol or even straight lemon juice). Wash hands after removing same. Public officials need to advocate this protective procedure.
8
@JTK
"The best protection and preventative from the rapid spread of this virus is to wear a face mask."
False.
If you are likely to be in close contact with someone infected, a mask cuts the chance of the disease being passed on.
If you’re showing symptoms of coronavirus, or have been diagnosed, wearing a mask can also protect others. So masks are crucial for health and social care workers looking after patients and are also recommended for family members who need to care for someone who is ill – ideally both the patient and carer should have a mask.
However, masks will probably make little difference if you’re just walking around town or taking a bus so there is no need to bulk-buy a huge supply.
-The Guardian
13
@JTK
I’m a practicing physician and I couldn’t agree more. They are essentially “a face tampon“, and keep the virus inside the mask and not spreading onto the community or onto your hands were you further spread it. If there’s not that much on the surface of the world to clean off your hands after contact, we will be much further ahead. Of course, it does not prevent respiratory inhalation of particles but those are only present within 6 feet of an individual where is this heavy droplet deposits all over the world at the person walks through and that is the major risk. That is with the mass keeps from emitting. Sick and even some clinically infected individuals are essentially Paint gun spraying the entire community, even if they cough impartial into the elbow or hand. Nothing beats a mask to contain it.
And if you don’t believe this, take a look at the article on what the Asian countries have done to stop this. A key ingredient has been a mask. There is no social stigma wearing it as it is considered a courteous thing to do, and now a very essential thing to do.
Of course, it’s almost impossible to find them now and people are stealing them from our clinics. If a sick person were to wear a cotton scarf or bandanna and then change it and wash it daily, that would be an enormously practical way to prevent transmission of this disease
12
@JTK Agree with uji10jo. This is wrong advice. You should leave face masks for health care professionals, where they are actually essential in protecting from the virus. They only protect you from someone coughing and stop you touching your face (so you could tie a scarf round if that was the object). You're way more likely to catch it from transferring the virus from your hands to your mouth, nose or eyes.
3
So, people who worked hard enough to have a second home left the city. That is good, lessens population density and spreads people out. That is about all there is to this article.
24
@Thomas
Yes it is good. But way too many of them got it without working hard. Like all those who sit in my building in gigantic rent stabilized apartments at 1/5 of market rent, because they manage to hide their real income in LLCs.
29
@Thomas What makes you think they all worked hard for their second homes? I don't begrudge them, but let's not pretend that inherited wealth doesn't have something to do with their good fortune.
70
@CacaMera That is definitely not right. There should be income testing every few years to avoid this.
4
It’s the same thing the rich did during the Bubonic Plague. And yes, history does repeat itself.
10
@Eric
Wish I had a copy of The Decameron, but our library system has closed.
4
Protecting yourself in this situation IS protecting others. We want to distance from each other. Those who can go (not me and my family) should. That includes rich and poor. Many low-income people have family outside of NYC and they (especially young/single) are going if they can or planning on leaving to help distance from crowds/roommates. The best exodus NY'ers can pull off will still leave millions sharing tight quarters.
21
Best result: empty elevators, kind and neighborly volunteering by those now more at home to deliver things outside elderly or inform neighbors’ doors; sparse socially distant seating at restaurants; uncrowded (but still busy) farmers markets - people walking calmly in the lovely spring sunshine. Life going on carefully, with sprays and wipes, but the SUVS gone and building staff less stressed. Very pleasant upside to uncertain times. We all want one another to be well, who actually have to live together.
41
@Nell
Hi Neil.
Nice sentiment. Almost like a breath of fresh air.
4
The more people travel, whether it is the rich fleeing to their second homes or vacationers taking advantage of low airfares due to empty planes, the more they risk spreading the virus when they could have stayed home and helped contain it. Wherever you are and whatever your means, stay in your own city to help keep disease from spreading.
37
@Mark Lebow
Open the windows and hopefully mgmt will turn off central air.
@Mark Lebow
That’s how the Asians did it.
The bubonic plague was forwarded by the rich fleeing the cities, as the poor could not
The overweight, the smokers, those that subsist on unhealthy diets, those that never exercise are the ones that overtax our healthcare system and they will during this crisis. When figuring out the per person cost of healthcare in the USA no mention is ever made that the USA is practically the world leader in percentage of the population with diabetes or heart disease or opioid addition or obesity. Could this possibly account for why our healthcare costs are so high?
25
@Marie Seton
Great point. We're wiling to lockdown cities, close schools, effectively restrict peoples' freedom because of a virulent and more severe virus. But we allow junk food to permeate our schools and lifestyle, allow tobacco companies to sell their wares, allow unhealthly lifestyles. More people will die from these chronic, self-inflicted illnesses than the Covid many times fold.
And we will probably expend a huge amount of money on Covid, which will sap resources from tackling these other issues.
17
@Marie Seton Hmmm, this sounds an awful lot like President Trump, no? Overweight, lack of exercise, unhealthy diet. He almost brags about his unhealthy habits, pretending he is invincible and perfect. How I long for Michelle Obama's dedication to healthy food and exercise for Americans, and especially children. I know the surgeon general is saying we should stop our partisan bickering, put we have so many reasons to vote out the current administration and restore advocates of preventative health back to the White House.
8
@Marie Seton Anything that exists for profit, the price will just keep going up.
Yes, there are benefits to being rich. In our society, money is an incentive to work hard and to do things than help other people.
If you have dome things that have helped a lot of other people why should you be able to use the money you get as you wish.
15
@Grace
A person who's willing to recognize the facts would acknowledge they were only able to do things that "have helped a lot of other people" (your euphemism for "made them gobs of money," typically by exploiting the labor of others) only because they've had access to the societal infrastructure, starting with the Long Island Expressway they use to reach Wainscott and Sag Harbor.
Telephones, buildings, electricity, home heating oil, cars, trains, and planes, the internet, schools (public and private), hospitals, police forces, fire departments, farms, food-distribution chains, the list goes on and on. No one makes money without availing themselves of these things and the community that developed and maintains them.
A moral person would want to give back to their community. In this case, instead of fleeing to save their own skins, they'd stay put and see where they could lend a hand.
16
Most of the very rich, as Mr Trump, inherited their money.
5
@Grace Why should having an incentive to "work hard" be the difference between life and death? Why insult half the country that are living at or below the poverty line? Are you saying half of all Americans don't work hard? It's presumptive and disgusting. Most developed countries have a healthcare system that covers everyone, regardless on income or employment. So maybe instead of living in your glass tower that put us in this mess, maybe consider that if everyone was covered, we wouldn't need to run away like cowards and get the medical help we need and stop this pandemic.
5
Great to have the wealthy second home owners leave the city's medical resources to the rest of us!
58
@TEB
Speaking as a practicing physician here in a location where they will be relocating, they will simply find that with all the old people who live in the country, their chances for a respirator in the hospital will be limited, and the viral loads to which they will be exposed will be much higher because of the elderly in the hospital. Much better stay with the essentially young and middle-aged in the city who will experience bad colds and be able to weather this out at home, which would be the patriotic thing to do.
24
@TEB
Lol, they've left world-class hospitals like Weill-Cornell and Mt. Sinai in favor of their local urgent care.
8
Population density in the Hamptons on a holiday weekend can compete with that of some sections in NYC. Also, the jetset that has more probability of having being exposed to the virus since they travel a lot and mingle with the like. If I were a local, I'd cross the street.
48
I read the quote from the market owner in Woodstock while sitting in a B&B in Phoenicia.
9
No mention in this article whether any of these privileged people took along their maids, doormen, servants, etc. in a display of compassion or concern. What are the odds that happened? Every plutocrat for his/her self in America, circa 2020.
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The MUST have taken some staff or else how would their household function?
1
In answer to your question. Yes.
I have a small modest home in Southampton, listed on Airbnb. I received a last minute request this week from a personal chef who’s employer suddenly decided to head to the Hamptons for ten days. In March!
Yes. Some people have a couple thousand extra bucks to house their staff. Off site.
1
Just one more example of the rich needing to be locked up. What ill do they not spread? In my neighborhood, nobody has ever invited over a Prince for 14-year olds, and nobody has left.
5
The fact is we cannot ‘get away’ from the virus.
My hope is that this pandemic will in the final analysis bring us together’.
Neil Pollicino
Manhattan
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Poe's The Mask of the Red Death repeats. There is no way to avoid something that is very contagious even during the incubation period. The new versions of asylum-seekers think they can build a wall. Lotsa luck to them. It ain't gonna happen.
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Prevention is better than cure especially if one has a weaker than a normal adult's immune system such as the 82 year old woman who died of Corona virus (CoV). If one is infected, one's immune system is the best ally and the most proven cure.
Certainly escaping crowded areas of mega cities like NY or anywhere in the US is one of the many ways to make fresh air an ally in the fight against CoV or any infectious agent. Those in NY commuting to work on a bike or just getting around are also helping themselves by being empowered to use fresh air as an ally to prevent exposure to the CoV.
We can only overcome the CoV pandemic if we stay cool and not let the panic pandemic overshadow or crowd CoV. Understand that being exposed to a few virus particles in a city like NY could be an advantage one could acquire a herd immunity from micro exposure to the virus. Acquiring protective herd immunity could be the next best thing to a mass immunization, considering the vagaries of deploying a vaccine.
If one understands nature, one will quickly realize that the scary worst case scenarios are to be taken with a tiny pinch of salt. In fact I would love to be around a CoV infected person 20 feet apart in an open ventilated space and breathe the same air and get exposed to that infected person's exhaled air and welcome a dozen or so of the CoV particles. That tiny amount will elicit a protective immune response that can then mount a protective response to future exposure to billions of CoV.
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@Girish Kotwal - Relying on just the right circumstance (20-feet apart with just a pinch of airborne particles) is a chancy proposition indeed, and hard to recreate outside a laboratory.
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@Ironic Angel Tuscaloosa. My proposition is only wishful thinking for now but it could explain how a large population acquires immunity to the virus some day if and when that happens and the virus no longer knocks down people. We do not have to recreate thst situation it could happen without our knowing. How do you explain how Ebola came and went without a vaccine being developed in a timely way. When the swine flu pandemic was around it took down 17,000 people, I was one of those that was infected but did not receive the vaccine, I did not die. Why because some power decided that I was to die with the virus. No with the grace of nature, my immune system cleared the virus before the virus could kill me. Most infections with CoV are mild and an infected person's own immune system given the time to get into action will prevail. So the concept that I am introducing is to help people understand that we are not heading towards the end of the human species as we know it and that worse case scenarios and maps are not to be taken more than a pinch of salt. Hope should spring eternal that the survival of our species is eternal.
2
@Girish Kotwal don’t quit your day job to become an epidemiologist or virologist. They aren’t even sure whether getting it and then recovering provides immunity, so your plan is not a good one.
6
So I was waiting for some acknowledgment that the gig economy has left millions high and dry. no work, no paycheck, no sick leave, no federal acknowledgment - no less assistance. what are these people to do?
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The likes of Uber, et al., should be responsible corporate citizens and step up at the very least in the way of stipends for food and rent and essentials for those off of whose efforts they profit.
12
Actually just checked the Uber website and, at least for its drivers that get sick it’s offering financial assistance. Doesn’t help the drivers trying to get rides when people aren’t leaving their homes, but that’s a big step (considering they’ve considered their drivers to be independent contractors in every court case they’ve ever seen)
4
They should...but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
First, "fake rumors" is redundant; a rumor is something unproven, which can spread rather quickly due to a lack of badly needed information. There are no fake rumors.
Second, a lot of people blew off preparing because they thought it would never happen to them, but the minute we were told to prepare, there were insufficient resources for everyone to do so.
In the meantime, there's an enormous vacuum regarding what we should all be doing, and most of us don't really know what to do, so we do whatever we think will reduce the odds of becoming exposed.
Should we stay in our homes? Should we avoid public spaces? And if so, what do we do about public spaces impossible to avoid, like hallways in our buildings? Many of us have been told to stay away from our work settings, indefinitely.
Finally, the rich do not have an cure--this whole thing is finally being taken seriously in the US because some of the most powerful people out there have been exposed.
15
@David R - "...like hallways in our buildings?"
I have not seen or heard a neighbor in quite a while now. I did smell curry next door last night so they are still alive and living there but no one else has ventured out in a while.
Even the hookers have disappeared in my neighborhood and the sirens aren't blaring all night.
Its been so long since I have seen the landlady that I wonder if her entire extended family went back to Samoa to weather this out.
At the first of the month when I got my disability check, I loaded up the house in case of a complete Seattle lockdown which is quite plausible. I didn't go crazy or hoard anything but I have enough food and meds to stay inside for 60 days if I had to. And by then, I will have a new crop of beans and peas in the front closet:)
Yes. Class warfare is what we need right now. Thank you for this vital reporting.
Also, people of means but without second homes have stocked up on supplies to ride this thing out a few weeks, while people living paycheck to paycheck maybe have not.
Also also, people who live in houses rather than apartments are going to come into contact with fewer people than apartment dwellers. That’s just greedy.
To level the playing field we should outlaw private living spaces and put everyone in communal living so everyone of us has an equal opportunity to get sick. It’s only fair.
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@S. Feeling guilty? Put upon? Large house? Too much TP?
2
@S. I'm greedy because I love in a house? Communal living so everyone has an equal opportunity to get sick? Really, are you serious?
It’s truly a shame how little sarcasm comes through via the written word. But I’d hoped the extreme positions taken would have made that obvious. I should have added something like “let’s start looting the abandoned apartments of the rich while they’re safely ensconced in the hamptons!” (Don’t do that actually; everyone chill. And Netflix.)
5
The rich will always be able to look out for themselves, and they'll always grab and hoard resources others more desperately need.That's how they got rich.
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@larry bennett This is a narrow view, don't you think? Not all of us who are well off grab and hoard resources. Some of us are generous with what we have. And I didn't become well off by stepping over anyone else.
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I live on an island with an excellent, state-of-the art, but very small hospital. Our year round population is about 17K, and the hospital is currently staffed to serve the winter population. 22% of our year round population is 65 years old or above, which means we are at higher risk of seeing complications and deaths from COVID-19.
Currently there are no reported cases on the island, but we have seen a huge influx in seasonal residents arriving over the past few days. I'm not sure that these folks understand we have only 25 staffed beds in our hospital, or that they are unnecessarily increasing the risks for everyone on this island if they arrive carrying the virus but are asymptomatic.
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@Jane Norton
They probably do know that they're lowering their risk of infection while increasing the risk for the year round residents.
It's probably worth the risk to them.
8
@Honora The issue isn't whether they have a right to be there, but is it the right thing to do?
Is it that far off from hoarder behavior?
We have a social responsibility.
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@Honora
Like many year round residents, I am unable to afford to own a house here. My livelihood, in part, depends on wealthy summer residents and visitors. If New Rochelle can cordon off a section of their city to protect the spread of the virus to other communities, how unreasonable is it to protect our unaffected community from the virus by asking people not to come here if they don't need to?
2
They are used to running away. I'm friends with many of them They run from their misery without pandemics. They're a skilled set in these matters.
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This should be encouraged. By leaving the city, people lower the density and flatten the curve so instead of peaking this summer, we will have a lower peak this fall. Instead of the upper limit 1.7 million deaths the CDC projected in the Times article, we might hit the lower limit 200,000 deaths the Times reported. Although New York City has very good hospitals, the city’s resources will be severely strained. The city might even consider busing poor people, who don’t have vacation homes, to upstate refugee camps.
11
I'm with B Sherman of the Bronx...
Definitely not part of the 1% (top12-15?), my wife and I have a reasonably priced Vic, 325 miles north...not many New Yorkers make it up here
If I get the virus, I'm toast; 80+, recent open heart op, unending sinus infection. My son, out and about town, moved back in this year...No chance for us to be safe in town, so we stay far away.
We have a spare space...If a friend or couple was in need, in our position, for sure, I'd have them up.
In the meantime, there is no moral choice, One must stay out of danger if possible...the fact that some (rich or not) have the possibility to do that is fortuitous.
24
I have a older conversion van which I have re-made into a budget minimalist RV. Less than $2,000. I can let it set just for emergencies like this type. Plan ahead. Don't need the Hamptons or Fire Island. Go anywhere there is a road.
14
At work we are looking for ways to allow staff to legally work from home.
But most of them told us already that if told to work from home, they will stay away but will not work.
We had to tell them to stop calling out sick just because they are scared of the coronavirus, as a few of them have already done. We asked for a doctor note that proved they were sick, but magically they got well over night.
But - the bars were empty last night, last call was around midnight, and my favorite pub closed by 11. The restaurants a ghost town as well.
The city might not be closed, but I have never seen NYC as a ghost town before.
They might not have closed the city, but they scared people away for sure.
14
To be fair, if I had the choice of crowded city living and a more secluded home in the country to go to in the face of a contagious pandemic, I'd go to my country house, too.
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@Anna
Not sure how to put this, but maybe you are in a rural area, so you do have a clue.
Medical care if you need it, is not quite as automatic as in NY or other cities.
In the little town where I come from, If you need an ambulance, it's going to take a little time - maybe 15- 20 minutes - for the volunteers to get there, and 2o to 30 minutes to get to a hospital. The hospital isn't Bellevue, but a small regional hospital with minimal staffing, and likely no specialists on site in off hours. Often, just access to doctors may be limited - there are fewer. If you need personal help - well, you better have your own, whether family, friend or hired, because there aren't any services to speak of.
There are expectations from many urbanites which cannot be met. So if they leave a well served urban area, they best be prepared to handle all that comes up on their own for a while. Getting away from the center sounds like a good idea, but only if you're healthy, independent and accept isolation and a different set of risks.
12
@cheryl if it gets bad NYC hospitals will be over whelmed
1
Always stymied by the the hate scorned upon on people of means.
That being said the virus will still tracking down on all people regardless of income.
Why the need to create class system and vilify people based on their successes in life?
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@Tony: It’s called wealth disparity, and it has deeply detrimental effects on those left at the bottom. I am reasonably above the poverty level, not wealthy- but I can absolutely understand the resentment.
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@Danielle
"It’s called wealth disparity, and it has deeply detrimental effects on those left at the bottom."
How? How does someone owning a second, or third, home, harm those that don't?
21
@GMooG They come to their second homes like here on MV. The winter residents are not equipped to staff the stores like they do for the summer onslaught. Second and third home owners are here at the numbers we aren’t used to- screaming hollaring at us and hoarding the food on our winter supply level shelves. Working class and poor island families can’t buy toliet paper. They come to an island. On a ferry. I’m out stores. Possibly carriers
To a medical care system already strapped with waitlists and winter staffing in our hospitals.
This my friend. Is how this is harmful. To us and them also.
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Traveling (in SUVs, no less) uses lots of resources, like gas, which should be getting conserved, and then going into stores elsewhere to "stock up" seems like a way of possibly spreading disease farther afield
14
"Woodstock knew about hordes." Is this supposed to be a clever reference to the original, and notoriously overrun, Woodstock festival? One can only infer that that is Bellafante's meaning. And while Woodstock does get mighty busy in high summer and leaf peeping season, the festival didn't happen anywhere near there -- it was held in Bethel, NY, nearly 60 miles away.
12
“By the time we got to Bethel, we were half a million strong”. Nah—doesn’t have the same ring.
2
Coronavirus: Dangers, risks, such a medical term denotes. A social contract should always be to benefit all members of society, regardless of social class, race and many others, but leaders, elected or not, especially those of the hard-right, the men and women of the hard-left always referred to as specialists in cruelty, never made the minimum effort needed to permit themselves to abide by the terms and provisions of such an important contract – that’s socialism and all of its imagined and unwanted consequences, they always loudly contended, even when circumstances, such as trauma, associated with an extremely sad life of poverty demanded it. So an unprecedented national (preferably worldwide) crisis - of catastrophic or disastrous proportions, as the victims of the pandemic, apparently with the rapidity of a supersonic jet, continued to be larger in numbers than before, trillions of dollar in value erased - the Coronavirus had become, they found themselves obliged to be persons who no longer have the distinctive temperament and habit of solely and strictly operating under the same legal constraints, fiscal constraints, that before all allowed them to particularly also exhibit signs of neglect towards a significantly large and important segment of society.
2
Escape to the Hamptons? In this case I'd prefer to have 2000 acres in Wyoming or Nebraska, with enough supplies to last three months.
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@PeteH
Exactly. Just look at the NYT's US coronavirus map. The Hamptons (and all the other second-home locations mentioned) are well inside the red zone of what's currently the second biggest outbreak in the country.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html
@PeteH And a personal infectious disease specialist in case you get sick.
I have one of those, my brother. Who happens to be if the opinion that we humans are overreacting to this virus by several orders of magnitude. Many of his colleagues agree.
3
I live in the Hamptons and it feels alot different this week. All three of my summer neighbors are back, the private jets are screeching once again, and the stores are emptied. We already have community spread of the virus out here, so the risk is very real of catching it out here.
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@JJ And smaller hospitals.
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@JJ Yep and they have the highest probability of exposure since they travel a lot.
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@JJ We have community spread in the city, so I'm not sure what the difference is.
1
Look at the bright side. If the people who can afford second homes (and we know there are a lot of them here in Manhattan) all leave the city, that's just less crowding for the rest of us! They will siphon the products off the shelves of their local groceries and drugstores, leaving more here for us. Not all bad!
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@L.R. As someone who lives on the East End, our infrastructure is not set-up to handle this wild influx, especially during a medical situation. We have 1 small community hospital for the South Fork and our ambulance companies are mostly volunteer and older. So far my observations have included seeing numerous people from the city arriving at the stores only to wipe out shelves, filling carts with while senior citizens are trying to just find a few essentials, and acting like it’s summer vacation hanging out making plans. Yes, I understand why people would choose to come to a less densely populated area and how it will benefit the city where I too have loved ones, but the comment about “siphoning off” was quite callous to those of us who have live here year round working, trying to afford to stay where we grew up. We already have active cases out here and invariably a lot more just showed up. With very limited hospital beds and medical services available here this could be catastrophic for our local area.
40
@N.J. I didn't mean to be offensive, just trying to look at the upside.
And yet you seem to resent the "people from the city arriving...only to wipe out shelves, filling carts...acting like it's summer vacation." Kind of like what I said?
Let's not be mad at each other. We're all just trying to make the best of a horrible situation.
The proclivity of the 1% and 0.1% in New York to distance themselves from the experience of all others in the city they claim to love above all else-- in a time of crisis-- is obnoxious and selfish. If you want more proof of this, read the Times' recent article about the dedicated emergency room service for those who pay $8,000 per month, and the doctors there who have prophylactically prescribed antibiotics and for some, the same inhaler that I use for my asthma. Not only is this bad medical practice, but it also endangers those who have conditions, ongoing or temporary, who need these medications. Going to a 'summer house' or 'country house' is just as bad: as others point out, going up to the Hudson Valley or the Hamptons may simply spread the virus to further reaches.
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@Emily Not everybody who has a second home is a member of the 1%, and some are far from that category. Maybe they are rent-stabilized in the city and have managed to afford a place elsewhere because their NYC overhead is low. I know plenty of lower-income artists and teachers who bought places ages ago, when real estate outside the city was cheap. So your ironic quotation marks around 'summer house' or 'country house' are likewise "obnoxious" (your word), although I realize the NYT piece is tracking the more entitled citizens among us. But just in general, let's try to be humane and expansive both in our hearts and in our thinking right now, and not offer blanket reductiveness at a very challenging moment. If someone is lucky enough to have a place to escape from NYC right now, they absolutely should -- then self-quarantine for a couple of weeks to be sure they're not asymptomatic carriers of the virus and about to become patient zero in places that so far do not have a patient zero. Less stress on all resources in the city is only to the good going forward. (I do agree 100% that the purchase of medical services by people of means, depriving those who are less flush with essential medications and support, is nothing short of grotesque, and am sorry to read how this has affected you personally.)
64
@Emily; you could look at this from a much less hostile place. People leaving the city for a while is a form of social distancing, no?
13
"Self-quarantine"? You mean AFTER they've gone to the local supermarket in order to wipe out the shelves by stocking two weeks worth of groceries?
6
Spring training cancelled in PHX. Lots of tee times on great golf courses now available to the locals at reasonable prices. Looks like I'm going out tomorrow!
24
I have a car, a tent, a portable stove and a sleeping bag. I'm off to camp in the Smokies.
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DO WATCH hungry bears, storms, and lost souls looking for shelter. Still sounds like fun and u probably won’t be the only one making a fire! Good luck from the apple
15
@Fran
I have spent a LOT of time in the smokies. Bears and people there but not problem if you don’t tempt them with their desired objects ( food, valuable). Storms a matter of good tent pitching. Ticks are the thing to watch for.
7
@Fran Do you have a three month supply of food? This thing may not peak until July. If you are good at foraging you might be OK.
2
We have a small house upstate that we bought for 50k because we can’t ever possibly afford even a studio in NYC, our apartment is rent stabilized but that doesn’t stop our landlady from threatening to throw us out every year. If that happens and we can’t afford the higher rents, at least we have something! This is the case for a lot of our friends who can not afford 1 million plus to have home security in the city.
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@Bob
I am so glad that NYC rent control laws subsidize housing costs for people with vacation homes. I hope your landlady does throw you out.
3
How nice for them. I’m starting to feel like this is why DiBlasio is determined to keep schools open. The rich have their kids in private schools and those aren’t overcrowded and many have closed. The working class goes to overcrowded public schools and those 1.1 million kids will spread the virus to their community. And for anyone says the schools are being kept open for working poor who need day care, that doesn’t explain keeping HS and middle schools open. If DiBlasio is so worried about the poor, he can give out free meals at the schools and let the teacher and students go home.
51
@Lisa I am also furious with de Blasio refusing to close the schools, but it is to protect poor families, not rich ones.
Our fair mayor has decided to continue to feed poor kids (a good thing) and is willing to have many more New Yorkers die to do so (a bad thing).
1
Please: Call Gov. Cuomo’s office and demand schools close. It’s really easy to leave a voice message tel: 518-474-8390 press option 2 then option 1.
Tweet him, Facebook message, whatever. DeBlasio isn’t hearing it....
1. We are out of supplies and kids can’t learn in this constant news cycle. They also can’t reasonably wash their hands enough after touching shared materials, crowding into a different room EVERY 45 minutes. The hallways, cafeteria, and gymnasium do not meet the social distance criteria and the cafeteria and hallways do not meet the max 500 public gathering parameters.
2. Many kids live in intergenerational households and/or have grparent as primary caregiver. Kids aren’t getting sick, but they are incubators and carrying it home.
3. We are sorely understaffed as pregnant teachers and teachers with pre-existing conditions, teachers over 50 take leave. The teachers and bare bones staff would not be able to manage a fight, an active shooter, an evacuation with all of the prior plans in place because we simply don’t have enough (wo)manpower.
4.Ohio, Maryland, Oregon, New Mexico, Michigan, West Virginia, Virginia, Louisiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, Washington and Alabama have ordered all schools closed. Major metropolitan districts in Atlanta, Boston, Denver, Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, Washington, D.C. and Austin, Texas, have also shuttered.
And in these districts, children aren’t taking multiple forms of mass transit (like high schoolers in NYC)
10
@Lisa It would be a wise move to close at least high schools, wouldn't it?
Not sure it is a wise to move to the small towns in Suffolk and away from the best medical system in the US, ie New York City's. There are not enough doctors and hospitals out there in the boondocks.
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@Safiya only 2 hours from the city easy to get back if medical facilities are a concern.
8
@Safiya
The logic is avoiding getting sick for a few months and then come back to pick up the pieces. Btw, I would do anything to avoid NY medical system next few months unless you want to get coronavirus or die waiting for a bed.
9
@Safiya That sounds arrogant to call Suffolk County the boondocks. Population Density of Suffolk County - 1,637 people per square mile. Population Density of New York City: 66,500 per square mile. In terms of community spread risks, New York City health resources could be quickly overwhelmed.
6
It’s bad enough that our community is overrun in the summer, but now we have the entitled swarming to our little town off-season as well, with cats, canvas bags and Covid 19 in tow.
I may just head for NYC.
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@Newport native
How thoughtful of you. I assure you, even with these terrible city people in your town you are far more privileged with space and resulting safety than in NYC where most of us millions remain and try to run necessary services.
12
I wouldn't read too much into this. Around the Delaware shore, a place with plenty of second homes, mid-March is the start-up for the season. The weather has been warm, the shore is lovely, the air between you and others is salty, why not head out ?
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@Ginger What "Delaware shore"? I know New Jersey has a "shore", but Delaware has the beach.
6
I'm reminded of post 9/11 when my little bedraggled town was besieged by downstate crowds running for safety. The town has been entirely transformed, mostly positive. Unlike 9/11, I worry about every downstate neighbor's health as they dig in for the long haul. Boisterous restaurants will be a no go if open. Many local events have shut down. I foresee many an urbanite suddenly fumbling around discovering how to create a victory garden. Yes, these are people with financial stability. I've watched many become deeply engaged with environmental and local families's well being. Improving the local public school and library. Amazingly low unemployment rates. This is the positive angle. I do wonder about this time around. Whether the little town will dive into negative territory. Any place can become saturated with the habits and lifestyles of those who ran for safety.
23
I have a history of pulmonary embolism and most likely would not survive COVID-19. I am not in the 1% by a long shot, but I do have a very modest house 80 miles outside of the city. I am trying to decide today whether I should go there and stay until the pandemic is on the downward curve.
I know that it is not fair that I even have this option. But I also need to take some responsibility for my own safety, for my own life.
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@B Sherman I would say go now, and go quickly. You will be far safer outside the city, unless there is no viable hospital a reasonable distance away should you face an emergency. Pick up sufficient supplies en route, then self-quarantine for a couple of weeks to be sure you don't infect anyone else in your community. Anyone who can leave NYC in advance of what seems very likely to become a lock-down should make their escape. (I did.)
40
@B Sherman
the issues you have to weigh are the availability of intensive care options. the town 80 miles away may or may not have adequate equipment and staff to treat you.
staying in the city would expose you more if you did not keep to good quarantine measures.
as an er nurse my choice would be to stay in the city and shelter in place strictly.
and I am not sure if your hx of p.e. greatly increases your morbidity?
13
Please go! Take care of your health. This article is a bit ridiculous...making people feel guilty for having a bit more than others. Don’t we have better things to do with our time? Besides, I thought we are encouraged to isolate socially...doesn’t leaving a densely populated city a good thing at this time? Unless people have something positive to add, where everyone can benefit, perhaps there should be a moratorium on these types of articles.
26
The statement that the virus can spread easily before the onset of symptoms is misleading. There has been little evidence to suggest this, in part, because it is very hard to identify asymptomatic spread. At the very least, with no sneeze and no cough, there is a limit to how widely you can spread a droplet-based virus as an infected asymptomatic individual. It would likely require more intimate contact than lining up at a grocery store (eg sharing food/utensils, hugging, cuddling, kissing). Asymptomatic spread is more relevant to spread within family units. Assuming these individuals plan to shelter in place, in a locale with lower population density and perhaps more spacious homes, they are unlikely to contribute to geographical spread in the manner suggested.
The most recent evidence suggests that people are most infectious on Day 5 following the onset of symptoms. It is true that on Day 1 and 2, there is an unusually high level of virus in the nose and throat (before coughing starts), but these people are not “asymptomatic.” They likely are feverish, fatigued and feeling quite off. This is the “prodomal” stage of infection.
If we accept the idea of “widespread, asymptomatic infection” people will feel completely helpless and wonder if there’s any point at all in trying to mitigate the virus spread. This is not the case. Be sensitive to how you feel and take it seriously if you “feel off”.
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@Sarah Beerbower abscence of evidence is not evidence of absence.CDC web site states that the virus spreads from close contact with people within 6 feet of each other, as well as from sneezing/coughing. while it says that asymptomatic spread is not though to be the main means of spread, I wouldn't discount it. asymptomatic spread also doesn't mean we give up --- it means we test, test, test, to find out where pockets of infection are so we can control them. sadly our public health response has not been to test widely.
46
The absence of evidence also does not make a “fact”!
I merely react to the statement “The fact that the virus spreads easily before the onset of symptoms...”.
We just don’t know this to be true.
The CDC recommendation on 6 feet is largely based on the size of the virus and the distance it can travel from being expelled by a cough or a sneeze before falling to the ground. If asymptomatic, coughing and sneezing may be less likely and more intimate contact may be needed to transmit the virus.
The scientific publications I have seen for asymptomatic transmissions have all focuses on familial units. I am not saying asymptomatic transmission is absent, but probably not a huge contributing factor for transmission outside families.
Testing would be great! But since we don’t have the tests, anything we can do to increase distance between individuals, in this case those who are able moving to homes in areas with lower populations density and perhaps larger homes in which they could better isolate a single sick family member from other healthy family members, is good. It just seem like an inappropriate time to scorn or roll our eyes at these behaviors.
26
@MD "our public health response has not been to test widely" may be this year's understatement.
19
Once again, F. Scott Fitzgerald is vindicated in his argument with Ernest Hemingway. The rich really are different from you and me.
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@Philip
The rich are different, but mostly not in a good way.
24
@Jackrobat This kind of sweeping, judgmental generalisation only serves to further divide people and create and us/them mentality which drives resentment, judgment and hate. I know many wealthy people who are amazingly kind, considerate and generous with everything they have, who would never judge anyone regardless of their circumstances, and I know people with very little that are like that too. I also know a lot of awful people at the other end of that spectrum. Everyone should both look after their own health and well-being to their best of their ability, and also be mindful and aware of how their choices affect others, to equally think about the greater good. Off the cuff comments like this are unhelpful.
24
@Rae
Income inequality is a real problem in our society.
15
During the Cuban missile crisis, we lived a couple of hours from San Fransisco. My dad had loaded up the crawl space with water and canned goods. He also loaded his .22 rifle, to scare away the “San Franciscans” when they came for our food.
35
@Suzanne While house-hunting on S.I. 30 years ago I came across an old but well-kept house with an ersatz 'bomb shelter' created out of cinder blocks in the basement. Good luck.
6
When we are being told by infectious disease specialists multiple times every hour that the only way to flatten the curve here and save the most vulnerable among us (the elderly, those with underlying conditions) is social distancing, why is this article judging those who are making that choice? I might not represent all who are decamping, but in my case leaving the city is not only about taking care of myself and my children. It is about protecting those we might unwittingly expose to harm in our densely packed apartment building in the city. We are not in the highest risk groups so will weather this virus fine, but our elderly and ill NYC neighbors might not, and I take responsibility for them. I have also invited at-risk friends to join me in my home outside the city. When racism and exclusion are baked into this experience (Trump: “foreign virus”), please don’t exacerbate the problem by mocking choices community members make to be part of the collective solution.
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@E. S.: Social distancing isn't the same as going to the Hamptons to shop. That is more like "potentially spreading the virus further and faster."
~
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@ifthethunderdontgetya Who says people are going to the Hamptons to shop? People have to eat. And I bet most of those shop owners are glad to have the business - and extra money - to pay their staff, rent etc.
Aren't the shoppers in the city and other stores also potentially spreading the virus? Or do you prefer to cast blame at those who are more privileged?
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@E. S. But these folks are NOT pursuing "collective solutions".
They are looking out for #1, with zero empathy or corner for any "collective" or public interest. The fact that you apparently can't understand this is revealing.
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Here we go, the usual jab at second-home owners.
I'm not one of them, but I also am not envious and bitter.
Wouldn't it be better to get through this pandemic without resorting to Trump-like divisiveness? The people the author is sniping at might very well be the CEO whose family trust provides housing and education for unwed, pregnant teens, or the surgeon who on weekends volunteers his skills at clinics, or the law firm partner whose pro bono work has helped battered women escape their abusers.
Or whose largesse keeps our cultural institutions functioning.
Easy targets.
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@B. I like rich Manhattanites, I really do. My father was a white-collar worker employed by a company run by rich (old money) Manhattanites. He was paid well and treated well by his employers. That company was sold to a conglomerate in the 1970s and no longer operates in the USA.
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I find the vehement responses quite revealing. I found the writers tone mildly ironic. Such spirited defense of those leaving suggests they also sense the irony but would rather paint a portrait of complete innocence, even benevolence, in fleeing and perhaps taking the virus with them to possibly uninfected communities. (How many had themselves tested before departing, since we now know one can be asymptomatic for days?) Well, dear posters, best to avoid our master of irony, Mark Twain. I assume you have packed your copies of Camus’ The Plague to contemplate as spring breezes waft the greenery.
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No vehemence here. When people paint others as all bad, they must of necessity paint their opposites as all good.
But as a resident of Flatbush, I also see that some, but not all, poor people have at least as many unpleasant qualities as some, but not all, rich people.
Please, much better to get back to seeing people as individuals and not as types.
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Thursday night about 8 p.m. the streets in Sag Harbor were deserted according to a phone call I got from a friend who was driving through the Village on her way home from stocking up on
groceries.
On Friday morning other Hampton locals were reporting on social media posting comments that the rental market was suddenly hopping because people wanted to get out of the city. Meanwhile real estate agents were getting
cancellations from prospective buyers who thought it was better to wait it out for a few weeks then set up viewings. Homeowners also concerned about showings and open houses right now. So what do you believe in these trying times??
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@old lady cook Sag Harbor is no longer deserted. It now looks like the 4th of July weekend, and they are definitely not staying home. They are now out shopping, totally wiping out the local grocery store, pharmacies and having lunch at Dockside.
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While I am afraid of getting the virus mostly because I cannot visit my sick relatives. But I am looking forward to spending some time working on projects in my garage alone.....
This is one of those times when being a loner works.
Stay safe everyone.
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@John For once I feel sorry for the extroverts and the people lovers. They are going to have to try to find a way to exist without scads of people. Sounds like we have both had a lot of practice.
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@Mike S. @John
Heh heh, that makes 3 of us.
I was supposed to return 8 books checked out from the library earlier this month. I just got word that the library is closed for the rest of the month, and that no fines will be imposed for the period. The books include 3 cookbooks plus a wine primer.
Yep, sometimes being an introvert pays dividends.
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