Mt Hood's closed for business. Bring your backcountry setup.
5
I love it. They should travel and see what they can. They're going into areas that are shut down anyway, everything is shutting down, so social interaction will be limited just like their home. Get out, be in nature and have fun and just know there will be some hiccups along the way. Wash your hands, keep your distance and enjoy the outdoors ... and maybe help out if you can while traveling! I'd absolutely join you if I were in your shoes! Seniors cruising any tim of the year are a bigger threat to themselves and pandemic spread than you people flying to warmer locations to work from "home". Maybe this coronavirus is the babyboomer day of reconing for being so self absorbed and leaving the planet in such a mess for the rest of us.
3
I just watched the 1959 end of the world classic, “On The Beach.” Good role models shown for treating each other with dignity and appreciation as we await doom. At the end there is a repentance banner saying, “There’s Still Time.” Let’s hope so.
4
You may not be at prime risk for getting sick, but everyone who is out and about is a prime carrier.
The bars in Seattle, where the young people congregate, were crowded Friday night. Lots of people in close spaces with their inhibitions lowered. The health department put out a plea for them to stop it.
That said, there's something to enjoy about the lack of tourists at home too. My neighborhood, regrettably in the center of a tourist hub, is beautiful today, reminding me of times back before it gained the reputation as a nice place to visit, and was.
7
And hey, just for the record, "young" people aren't the only ones flying and going on vaca during this- I'm 66 and just got back home from being on vacation.
Use common sense:
Pack wipes, pack kleenex, pack good sense in social distancing. Bring your sensitivity to other's concerns. Keep your eyes open to other's foolishness.
Then be kind. Don't be an alarmist - you've chosen to go out there, so don't bring the rain with you. And smile, you're on vaca!
6
Stay home. We are resource insecure and our access to food and basic needs is dwindling. We are 20,000 doctors short of what is needed to care for our own people. This reflects a real lack of consideration on the part of these “professionals” for the Hawaiian people. Shelter in place in your own home. Our parents overwhelmingly work in the tourist industry putting our children and elderly at risk daily as we try to maintain economic stability in the most expensive state in the nation with the lowest paid workers per capital. We cannot access TP, bleach, sanitizer and wipes already. When you come you force our populace out into contact with exposed tourists (6 to date) and we cannot halt this when they continue to come. Show some aloha and stay away.
53
As a resident of Hilo, Hawaii, here is some advise for those taking advantage of the "cheap flights": show some aloha spirit and STAY HOME. We don't need any more people spreading this virus. I'd like to say thank you for some thoughtful consideration for the rest of us, but then it's all about you isn't it. Sad.
58
It would be great for the common good, if your spouse/partner is a health care worker, you stay at home to take care of the kids, allowing your spouse/partner to still work. We need all the help we can get. Keep safe everyone.
5
You're more likely to be shot but what are our elected officials doing about that?
3
Hawaii is like a petri dish. When it hits there, it's going to hit hard.
7
Wow, these people are so selfish.
Social distancing to flatten the curve really only works when most of our fellow citizens agree to do it.
"I stay home." Iorestoacasa.
I stay home for the sake of my fellow Americans, not for mine.
35
The young people flying to other places are jeopardizing the health and lives of the seniors around them. Nor are they immune. The sad story of the two 29 year old young women in Wuhan.
I recently got into a disagreement with my upstairs neighbor’s nanny who did not want to follow the building house rule and use the Purell in the lobby before entering the building. Her young employers sided with her. I guess they feel that they and their children will be fine so the heck with everyone else.
18
@Judy You got in a disagreement because someone didn't want to use Purell? If you're that worried, just wash your hands. People think hand sanitizer is a panacea but it isn't!
6
Take this time off of work to explore the outdoors near you already (which you can do without gathering in crowded, closed transportation vehicles).
While this behavior is not dangerous for the young healthy individual, it is certainly dangerous for greater humanity, including people's beloved aged grandparents and parents who will likely suffer significant harm.
TL:DR: Please do not help spread this virus, even though you will likely not die from it. Your and other people's parents and grandparents might. Go hiking locally instead.
18
Selfish and irresponsible. There is plenty of information out right now about flattening the curve, and this type of behavior puts others at risk.
21
So it sounds like the people traveling have the same attitude as the people who have gone to work and other places with the flue. Imagine if from now on people with the flue stayed home and maybe we would not have 40 to 70 thousand dead from the common flue.
3
Reading these comments, it's a shame that boomers only respond with fear and alarm to things that affect them. The blasé attitude that they so easily criticize in this article is exactly how they respond to the climate emergency. 'This doesn't affect me so why would I change my behavior?' Absolute hypocricy.
15
You may think you're poor not being able to afford travel at higher rates, but you're still living in some of the wealthiest cities in the world. And now you're spreading the virus to places that may have less resources, like some countries in Latin America. That's what working class Europeans on board of ships did when they infected the new world, except knew even less then. check your privilege.
18
“I spend more than 50 bucks on cigarettes and coffee in a weekend,” he said, “so like, why not?”
Sounds like this guy has some other risk factors to consider.
22
My elderly parents live on Maui and have been struggling to keep well stocked at home so they can avoid going out. The stores were very mobbed and later quite stripped. People coming in from infected areas may very well spread the virus over there. So far there were no official cases in Maui, however that is likely to change after reading this article.
11
Unfortunately this is exactly what I'd expect from a 30-year-old from the self-absorbed generation that spends its time stepping into traffic while glued to a self phone, counting on the intelligence and acuity of drivers to slam on brakes to accommodate self-centeredness.
No surprise that the most tuned out generation is continuing to be just that. Tuned out and self-absorbed, failing to understand or care that our personal fealty to the greater good right now can mean losing out on sparkly trinkets.
Thus, while responsible grandparents remain sequestered from family so we all benefit from not over burdening our courageous healthcare workers, and good people donate to food kitchens so the poor will also have a crack at gathering food for their families, we have this generation of the me-first, me-first.
At 30, my husband had taken one trip to a foreign country called Vietnam, and returned safely from the infantry. And that was for the greater good as it was defined when he got his cheap air flight.
13
@HotGumption Reading the first few words clued me in my on your age and the last paragraph verified. Boomers are the last ones who should be calling anyone self-absorbed. I'd rather be part of the "self-absorbed" generation than the greediest people to ever walk the earth.
5
While I understand their perspective--I was more short-sighted in my 20's too--these days I find it irresponsible because they could be vectors for disease. But I'm also surprised at the strength of my feeling about this. We are at the start of another crisis--climate change--that will cause many deaths, economic impacts and other problems. Yet, I still travel via airplane for purely fun trips. I have to try to take a lesson out of this--that being a good steward of my community means sacrificing a little personal pleasure in order to save others pain and suffering.
8
The type of thinking by people traveling during this time is selfish, and the Times would do better to not give it attention. The mortality and morbidity curve is such that younger healthier people are less likely to suffer the consequences of their infection, whilst spreading the virus during their asymptomatic phase to individuals at higher risk of death or morbidity. In difficult times, we need to be selfless and contentious of the greater impact of our actions...such as booking traveling around the world. I’d rather the Times use their resources to educate than to dramatize.
4
The government should order mandatory cancellations and shutdowns everywhere so everyone understands the severity of how CoVid is transmitted. Otherwise we risk a total breakdown. Age is not the critical factor; social distancing is. Postpone going out until we have flattened the curve. We are all at risk.
8
The government should order mandatory cancellations and shutdowns everywhere so everyone understands the severity of how CoVid is transmitted. Otherwise we risk a total breakdown. Age is not the critical factor; social distancing is. Postpone going out until we have flattened the curve. We are all at risk.
My understanding is that mitigation strategy is designed to flatten the epidemic curve so that the hospital system is not overburdened. Epidemic models imply that if young and healthy catch the disease and spread it, the health infrastructure could crash resulting in more and more deaths, not only of seniors but of health care providers.
If young people really believe in Socialism, their individual actions should show a regard for the greater social good. If they believe in the threat of climate change they should modify unnecessary air travel.
9
Mr. DeSimone may think he's immune because he's 30 years old. But I'm willing to bet that many of the younger people who died in China (setting aside medical personnel) were male smokers. If he's been smoking since junior high or high school, which is when most smokers start, his lungs aren't very healthy.
9
The attitude of I’m young so I don’t have to worry was so disgusting to me. Yes we assess our own risk but we shouldn’t be ignorant or I sensitive to the fact that we could affect others. I have senior parents and my sister has lupus. Also Hawaii may seem like the numbers are low but the reality is there has been less than 40 people tested to date. As the testing efforts increase we are crossing our fingers but there is uncertainty until we see more data.
5
I completely disagree with article and most comments.
It makes a lot of sense for people to escape from crowded cities. It reduces their social contacts and reduces the density at home. The pitch of this article about selfish young people is a red herring.
3
The government should order mandatory cancellations and shutdowns everywhere so everyone understands the severity of how CoVid is transmitted. Otherwise we risk a total breakdown. Age is not the critical factor; social distancing is. Postpone going out until we have flattened the curve. We are all at risk.
2
Irresponsible disease vectors. Both for the travelers and the airlines that are not grounding planes for anything other than essential travel.
4
Some on this page want to use this moment to question the ethics of travel overall, not just in the age of Corona. Fair enough. But those who instantly judge travelers for selfishly destroying the world might ask themselves what will happen to wildlife in Africa if nobody goes to the National Parks. The answer is that the animals will be slaughtered. That's why, depending on how severe this epidemic gets, I am still hoping to visit Meru and Kora National Parks in Kenya this July. I chose them expressly BECAUSE they are dangerous, that I will have to hire an armed ranger to protect me from Somalian bandits, and BECAUSE only by presence on the ground of travelers is there any chance for the animals there to be properly protected. I am over 60 and suffer from asthma, so I take the Coronavirus very seriously. Just as I take seriously Malaria, Schistosomiasis, Ebola, Amebiasis, Sleeping Sickness, snakes, scorpions, poisonous beetles, single engine planes, traffic accidents, and bandits. There is a risk/benefit calculus in every situation. The best thing any American can do right now for world health is to stop eating beef, the production of which produces more carbon than anything. Steak eaters-- feel free not to respond with snap judgments.
4
Mr. DeSimone, considering a $50 ticket from Austin to L.A. and back, said “I spend more than 50 bucks on cigarettes and coffee in a weekend, so like, why not?” Well I hate to rain on his good fortune, but if a smoker, he might want to consider that he may well be in one of the more risky demographics for COVID-19. COVID-19 when it reproduces inside the lungs, fills them with mucus which first interferes with breathing and if not abated, eventually causes you to drown in your own, uh, mucus. His lungs, already impaired by smoking, if he catches COVID-19, he may just die before he can be saved by medical intervention. So, yeah, as he also said, the world might end and "I may as well enjoy it while it lasts". I wish him good luck and hope that last comment was not a personally self-fulfilling prophesy.
7
It’s a shame Typhoid Mary couldn’t work from home because she was a nurse. Otherwise think of the travel bargains she could have enjoyed!
6
I absolutely get the temptation to I travel if you are low risk, but this mindset is self focused and ignorant. The comment about “Ebola...we’ve been though this before” . Um...no...this young woman has NOT been “though” Ebola. I hope someone wise in those millennials lives’ can speak some wisdom and maturity into them. I will use this article to review with my teen children that these life experiences are opportunity to step back and ask what they can do for the good of the community at large, and not time to “decompress” in Hawaii.
9
I'm 25, healthy, and have cancelled all travel, as have many of the peers in my age group. I even made the very difficult decision not to travel to a friend's memorial service. There are idiot risk-takers in every generation, but are not representative of most of us.
That said, I expect boomers to begin making similar levels of sacrifice to combat the climate crisis. Seems like nothing else will get your attention, so: we'll cut travel if you cut emissions. Capeesh?
9
@NYT reader Perhaps Mr. DeSimone, who apparently has a high risk tolerance for his and others' health, should forgo the trip, and instead spend his hard-earned $50 ticket/smoking money for online gambling/stock trading.
Stay healthy!
2
Continentals, stay home. We don't want you here right now.
10
“I spend more than 50 bucks on cigarettes and coffee in a weekend,” he said, “so like, why not?”
I think the above says it all. Oh to be young and believing that you're invincible.
1
Travelling will still be cheap when this is all over. For now, YOU SHOULD STAY AT HOME, because you might spread the virus, even if you do not have any or very mild symtoms. Why do you think we shot down bars, clubs, schools, and diminish our social contacts everywhere in Europe? It is shortsighted and rather irresponsible to say ' what the heck, it's cheap now, let's ignore all the precautionary efforts'. This is not a game, it's real life.
9
Let's just call our protagonist COVID Joe. He can live in infamy like his spiritual ancestor Typhoid Mary.
7
Dear young people, please don’t allow your assumption of immortality to force others to face their mortality. A cheap ticket to anywhere is a risk, period. Its your turn to get real & grow up. The larger society is depending on you to keep our country strong and healthy for decades to come.
Signed,
A Boomer
10
I am in my mid-60s and very healthy and I am going to do this. If I have to die of this stupid virus, let me die happy! I am also booking summer'fall trips now while rates are so low.
5
The virus turns your body into a COVID19 factory and distribution center. You think you’re blissing our on a Hawaii beach, on a beach, while the virus is using your cells to send out millions of replicas of itself. Some will be delivered to neighbors who touch what you touch, the gas pump that fuels your getaway car, the person who uses the airport bathroom after you, the cashier at the supermarket. Social isolation isn’t about your personal risk. It’s to prevent you from being a vector, infecting others, who infect others, until hospitals are overwhelmed and more vulnerable people die.
68
@Sarah This belongs at the very top of all threads. Times Pick, come on.
2
Why shouldn't these young Americans fly all over the world, spreading their sputum through the air to be inhaled by whomever happens to be near them? And they're proud to talk about it in the New York Times. So what if they're carrying the virus? He's right: "Odds are, if I get sick, it will be like a bad flu.”
Why should they care about who they infect? They're not from Italy, where people actually love their grandparents, even going to their homes for Sunday dinner every week. In that country they've shut down the entire country, even though the average fatality is 82 years old.
Like the article about the two brothers who bought 18 thousand bottles of hand sanitizer to sell on EBay, and are now proud of their foresight, this story is exposing a very unsightly aspect of American culture.
34
But what if they are carrying it infect the vulnerable wherever they go?
4
This article and the commenters make me sad. I blame Trump’s response for putting our nation at risk, but I can’t blame him for the new notion that no one owes anything to anyone ever. I hear young people correctly decrying the anti-Asian sentiments and blaming for what is a totally impersonal virus. But apparently the same enlightened view does not prohibit hostility to people foolish enough to have been born more than 60 years ago, or the REALLY irresponsible people with asthma or on chemotherapy. To commenters suggesting that all old people deserve what they get because a few go on cruises. Wow. I’ve never gone, but if I had, I would deserve to die? Wow.
So this virus won’t kill you, personally and apparently that’s all that matters? Well, the next epidemic — and the last 20 years indicates that they will be coming with increasing frequency — may disproportionately affect your particular demographic. When it does, I will care for you. Not because it’s what you’ll deserve, but because it’s what you’ll need. We are here to help and love each other. I don’t know when or how we forgot that.
23
I don't want to hear a single word from any of these 'pandemic tourists' EVER again about climate change or saving the planet, b/c when the chips are down, it's clear they're HAPPY to do their part in burning jet fuel and polluting the planet for their own quite unnecessary whims.
PS: I say this as someone who has NOT flown on an airplane since 2004.
10
Cheap flights, cheap stocks, cheap gas. In every panic, there are rational people who take advantage...
3
title change to: Young, Confident and Socially Irresponsible.
17
I now live in Miami. Pictures from Fort Lauderdale of 1000's of spring break millennials & some older packed like sardines on the beach and in bars are infuriating. The supposed generation of caring individuals who want to save the earth show profoundly little empathy for others. This is entirely optional activity. When they have finished swapping and propagating the virus among themselves and return to their homes, offices and visit their grandparents, the damage will be done. #okboomer
12
This is just another manifestation of the drop in empathy among young people.
Since 2000, empathy scores among college students has dropped by 40%.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/born-love/201005/shocker-empathy-dropped-40-in-college-students-2000
7
My 80-year-old mother in Arizona has heart and lung complications and will likely die if she gets the virus. Spring training was cancelled for a reason. Please take your vacation another time.
13
There are a lot of sick people flying because there is zero screening going on at North American airports beyond asking people to self report if they have been in China, Iran or Italy. People are not self reporting. So there is a big risk in getting on an airplane. Plus, these young people could be unknowingly already carrying the virus themselves. And if they get stuck in another country if it goes into lockdown, how will they be able to afford to stay there if they can't even buy a $500 plane ticket?
5
This virus could mutate and, on the second pass, the young might be as vulnerable as the elderly are now. Something to think about.
7
I was struck by Mr.DeSimone, who spends $50 on cigarettes and coffee each weekend. This is all too common behavior among the young. I saw many in my generation bumming around the worlds when I was working 100 hour weeks in my medical training. Yeah, I was jealous. But I was also trying to have a career that helped society.
Mr. DeSimone, some day "odds are," to quote you, that you will have COPD or one of the cancers associated with your smoking. Not only will you be miserable and in pain, you will be a drain upon the resources of society.
The fact that you may well be a carrier of Covid while you are asymptomatic means you will not only may be a drain on society later, but are actively hurting society today.
I'm 71 and at high risk. I am looking for ways to help my community. So far, I can tutor math online and do trail clearing in the national forests. Both are useful and keep me safe.
I'm sure as a well off young person, you can say, "OK, Boomer" and do far more than I.
11
“I spend more than 50 bucks on cigarettes and coffee in a weekend,” he said, “so like, why not?”
That's why not right there. Smoking will raise your risk of severe disease way above your relative advantage of younger age.
5
You can't blame the young. They didn't moronically vote for the GOP and create this monumental mess out of their world.
2
The GOP is bad, but didn’t create Corona.
1
No surprise that DeSimone would take a risk traveling at this time. After all, he spends 50 bucks a weekend on coffee and cigarettes, so he's clearly not concerned about his health. But for those of us who want to stay healthy I'd advise him to stay home.
1
Yet another instance of putting a few infected people (who don't know it yet) on a plane, and shipping them at 650 mph to another global location. Thus, spreading the virus there.
Global air travel is delivering the virus accross oceans as fast as an online-shiipment. The jet aircraft has become a super-class of transmission here. Cruise ships come in second.
Sorry to say that some of thee people will get stuck in their new destinations, when more planes are grounded.
2
There is a pilot from Dallas that tested positive for coronavirus. Pilots spend most of their time in the cockpit with one other person. Pilots leaves the cockpit to go to use the bathroom and are not walking around the cabin filled with passengers and flight attendants. I know they are at least younger than 65 because of the mandatory retirement age is 65.
I wonder how they got infected with the virus. Did they get infected with corona in the cockpit or were they on a layover sitting by the pool in Honolulu?
I think this article is an example where we as a society are trending. It is all about me, self fulfillment and complete disregard for my neighbors. It is the same as hording mountains of toilet paper and cleaning up the shelves in supermarkets getting into fights. Ideals, the common good and taking care of each others has been forgotten in large parts of our society. I would like to tell those young people "taking advantage" of this dire situation that they can kill me if they come back infected as asymptomatic carriers since I am severely immune suppressed unable to fight this virus.
4
What really strikes me is that so many people would go on huge cruise ships- ever. These extremely polluting, fuel consuming floating cities are the last thing we need in this time of climate change and death of the oceans. It comes as no surprise that Donald Trump thinks they are great and he's now working on bailing out the cruise ship industry. I really wish people would find less destructive and safer ways of taking their vacation and hope when all this subsides that this terrible industry does not rebound.
7
All of the people on these comments who are whining about this perhaps should take a cue from those described in the article and go on a vacation themselves. Perhaps a break from being perpetually outraged is just what you lot need, plus it’ll give you some time away from the irresponsible media-induced hysteria being whipped up to instill a sense of panic and fear amongst the general public.
If you live in the United States, you have more of a chance of being struck by lightning in your lifetime than you do of catching this. Even less of a chance of dying from it, which is less than 0.3-4% for the majority of people. Obviously if you are over say, age 65-70 and/or you have an underlying serious medical issue you probably shouldn’t be traveling anywhere, but the idea that everyone including those of us who are young and healthy need to suddenly stop living our lives and become shut-ins is patently absurd, it to mention unrealistic.
6
@Michael - I don’t need a vacation right now, and I’m young and healthy. No one is suggesting we all become shut-ins, so give your snarky outrage a rest. What is being suggested is that people take proper precautions and not take unnecessary travel risks, and booking a flight to Hawaii now because the fares are dirt-cheap and you want to “live your life” is an unnecessary risk: maybe not to you, but to people you come in contact with either during or after your vacation to whom you could inadvertently sicken with the virus if you do not know you are carrying it. The elderly and the immunocompromised are at risk of devastating health consequences and death from this virus. That is the issue here. The lack of concern displayed in this comments section for other people is astounding and, frankly, patently absurd.
Michael, if you want to “live your life” during the coronavirus pandemic, go for it. No one is stopping you. Get on that plane and go on vacation. Just don’t come to New York, please. We have enough of our own problems here with this outbreak, and we don’t need you walking around “living your life” while the rest of us worry about our health and the health of our friends, relatives, and frail loved ones.
5
This just in from a friend of a friend:
"We just returned last night! What a fabulous trip. We felt far more safe in Africa because Rwanda, Tanzania and Zanzibar all test (by body temperature and individual interviews) before you board a plane (even the chartered flights). When we returned to the States yesterday the only questions asked of us were had we traveled to China and did we come in contact with livestock within the last 2 weeks. That’s it! Shameful."
6
This is just one more reason, besides human crowding and over population, that we have zero chance of containing pandemics or ever fixing climate change. Humans are too mobile, interconnected and our entire lifestyle and economy depends on cheap oil and uninterrupted wasteful economic activity. Might as well just have fun
1
This level of irresponsibility is truly disheartening. The virus arrived here by travelers and it will continue to be spread by travelers. Travel forces close contact and puts us all at more risk especially when there is mounting evidence you can transmit days before you’re symptomatic. Travel should ONLY be for absolute necessity.
We all need to practice strict social distancing and hand hygiene or we risk the same fate as Italy. All of us must protect the vulnerable among us! Patients undergoing chemotherapy, children with severe asthma on immunosuppressants, elderly patients already on home oxygen are all relying on the rest of us!
I say this as a healthy millennial physician who is currently works in an ICU. Please, please do your part. Most hospitals are already full with our typical patients and while our system is working to expand capacity, it is up to the general public to flatten the curve!
The WHO estimates 5% of infections require critical care. We simply do not have the number of hospitals beds and ventilators that would be required.
As someone in our society who experiences and witnesses the hurt that comes with death and tragedy, the potential psychic pain of this pandemic is unimaginable. Please, please do your part and stay home. Walks in the park are still a nice option!
15
Gotta love it that the young man who is not afraid to fly was complaining about how much he spends on cigarettes. I guess he's not not afraid of lung cancer, either, and has no problem with polluting his cohorts with second-hand smoke. There is a word for this, and it is not "brave".
5
Nope, this is selfish and entitled. Doing this endangers those with compromised immune systems you might encounter along the way. Depriving the virus of a human host is the only way to burn it out--the only way to kill most viruses, in fact. Book for four months from now and be ready to cancel should things get much worse. For now, if it's not essential, please don't go.
4
These travelers are missing the point - it is no longer about them, it is about protecting the vulnerable. If the pandemic plays out like it might, these people will be seen as fiddling while rome burned at best, and those that chose vacations at the cost of others lives at worst.
4
You want to take a cheap flight, go for it. Most younger people think it's only seniors and those with compromised immune systems will get the virus. Viruses can mutate. If/when a few younger people start contracting it and becoming seriously ill, people will start rethinking their plans. It's their life and their money, so not mine to judge. The airlines only care about profit so expecting them to be socially responsible is naive.
2
The odds are good that a majority of us are going to contract this virus. What we want to do is NOT all get it during the same month. I understand folks wanting to take advantage of both the capacity to jet off somewhere and the spirit of adventure. Just don't.
3
We have all been young and know what that's like...feeling invincible. Being older gives one perspective and experiences many young haven't acquired. The risk is there but the experience may not be what might be imagined during ordinary times. Who wants to go to NYC if everything is closed or Hawaii if quarantines might happen? There's a reason Dorothy said there's no place like home, there's no place like home! I am going to take time out to enjoy the area where I live....ride my bike, hike, walk the dog, read, cook and yes do some spring cleaning-yuk!
1
While the risk to younger people is low, the spread of corona virus to unsuspecting communities is decidedly more concerning. The risk to others isn't relieved by low cost flights.
Schools aren't being closed solely because of concerns about infected students, but because of the probability they will spread the illness to parents, grandparents and other communities.
While corona virus is unlikely to harm young travelers, the "Ugly American" syndrome certainly will.
4
Why not? If everyone else is going to stay home and make normally busy places look like ghost towns, why not enjoy the peace and quiet of going places that are normally loud and noisy? Time Square must be a joy to visit right now. Last night my wife and I went to a popular movie and there were only 4 other people there. We were far enough away from each other that there was no danger of close contact. we also made unnecessary reservations for a popular restaurant that was half empty. It's not that we are not concerned about our health but someone has to tip the service staff and help keep the economy going. The only place that seems busy and where there seems to be too much social contact are the grocery stores where people are hording nonsensical items like toilet paper and tuna fish. I know that getting the virus can be bad but do we have t a ct like it is the beginning of a zombie apocalypse?
68
@George the “why not” is that young people who get the virus can pass it to others before they even know they’re sick. We need to flatten the curve of the peak so that hospitals are not overwhelmed. These young people may find themselves quarantined for 14 days in another country should they be exposed.
77
@George Getting the conoid-19 virus is not very bad. Almost no health people have died of this virus as apposed to the FLU.
I'd like to know how many people in the USA are hospitalized with conoid-19.
3
@George Buy gift certificates to the theaters and restaurants. They get money now, you contribute the economy, but you reduce your risk of spreading or contracting the disease.
46
Same thinking as anti vaxxers-only THEY matter, NO ONE else.
However, the difference is that youth biology can propel impulsivity/poor decisions but the anti vaxxers are truly personality (and IQ) disordered.
Anti Vaxxers are who the general public should be scorning.
Think about when the CV vaccine comes out-will the same finger pointing and shaming happen to the AVs? Or will there be a collective shrug and amnesia about social responsibility? Maybe the lesson should be resisting American short term historical memory loss.
3
Online versus breathing in and out in transit are pretty different. Digital makes them unaware of biological it appears.
I would do the same at that age, when I was invincible.
2
Reminiscent of the phrase "Typhoid Mary," from back when some people were carriers of that disease without symptoms. They were ultimately confined to keep others safe. Sad when any of us don't consider the impact of our actions on others.
1
The best decision Mr. DeSimone could make would be to not smoke several packs of cigarettes every weekend. If he spends $200 a month on cigarettes (and coffee) it won’t be the Coronavirus that kills him young.
As for the bartender planning to go to Arizona for Spring Training, there’s probably not going to be any baseball games happening and the bars and clubs are going to be empty. Maybe go to Sedona and meditate.
Speaking of bartenders, and anyone working in any related service industry, all of these people are at major risk of infection and will likely be out of work soon. The current American govt has no substantive health plan for dealing with this virus and no economic support plan for the everyday people infected. The best they can do so far is “inject” make-believe money into a make-believe market.
2
Reading about infected travellers to China, it says that in one instance, a woman (living in the US state of Massachusetts）asked for swab tests three times in the two weeks before boarding a plane to Beijing but was turned down, even though she showed symptoms, health authorities in the capital said on Saturday.
Nothing to add.
I’m ordered to work from home next week but I’ll do so at my parents place in Florida. Why not use this opportunity to visit them? They are not in a bubble. They are still going out and contacting others.
There are probably more cases than reported in NY state, but we know there have been 1 or 0 deaths. It’s more dangerous to ride a bike.
So hello sunshine!
@AW - There have been three deaths in New York as of this afternoon, all older people. Hopefully there won’t be more, but I suspect it may be a vain hope.
One thing that is not being tracked or reported on yet is the number of recovering young adults/middle agers who don't die but have permanent lung, liver, and kidney scarring and damage that will put them at future risk for the rest of their young lives. We are not even talking about those facts. Dying might not be the worst likely outcome if you become infected.
4
Sounds like young people who catch the virus, dont show symptoms as it is very mild, but fly around infecting others who may be in poorer health, older, etc. This isn't about them getting sick, but how many others they may get sick. With that said, when I was in my 20's, I would have have probably done the same and lacked a sense of social responsibility.
268
Just book a flight to Northern Italy and google „exponential growth“ when waiting for boarding.
7
What we don't know is how many of these young people are asymptomatic carriers. By traveling widely, they could be unwittingly spreading the virus around. But hey: it's a free country!
2
This article should have been titled "Young, Confident, Selfish and Flying, Other People Be Damned." People like Mr. DeSimone just can't seem to be brought to understand that it's not about him and whether he catches the virus or not, but that it's about him through his behavior transmitting the virus to other people, thereby spreading the virus around until the numbers make it a certainty that it does get to vulnerable people. That the risk is mainly for the elderly, he thinks, gives him license to ignore it. Since I don't know him, I cannot say whether this selfishness is the result of narcissism, self-entitlement, or just plain stupidity. Not do I know what to say to someone like him. "Good for you, Mr. DeSimone, you go, you!"
the risks can feel very abstract, while the deals are quite concrete. “As far as I can tell, the mortality rate is like sub one percent for people who aren’t elderly,” said Mr. DeSimone, who added that he’s willing to risk infection for his cheap international trips. “Odds are, if I get sick, it will be like a bad flu.”
2
Some people choose to take advantage of cheap travel, and accept the risk of increased exposure and personal consequences.
How about an indelible mark so we know who those people are, and then others can make their own decisions about whether to associate with the travelers when they return home?
1
It's called 'forging ahead while we still can' www.lavocedinewyork.com an article I wrote last month in reference to my son and daughter in law who are traveling through Thailand, and have just landed in Prague, to visit her parents. These are fearless travelers, who in my opinion, are safer abroad than in the US.
2
I thankfully fall into the cohort that likely won’t be affected by covid; I love to travel; I have time off from work that would allow me to.
And yet: I am choosing to lay low and practice social distancing in order not to spread the virus to vulnerable populations. I suggest others consider the same. Our actions have repercussions.
10
I’m elderly so I plan to sit here in the retirement community and “travel” via the web. Unless I get the virus...
In which case, once I recover, I’m going to get in my car and take a road trip.
It may never happen, but the thought somehow gives me a sense of hope.
1
It's ironic, but coronavirus may be the best climate activist we've ever seen. The behaviors it is encouraging, i.e. working from home, avoiding air travel and slowing down consumption, will do more good for the climate than years of protests have been able to accomplish. Many of the habits this virus is teaching us need to become the new normal, albeit with more socializing in the future.
1
Just a word about terminology: "Mortality rate" is incorrect. You are referring to the Case Fatality Ratio, the number of deaths / number of infected patients.
The mortality rate is defined as the Number of deaths/total population over a period of time.
1
I think it'd help to note the rather considerable measures every major airline is going through to ensure their planes are safe to fly. In a nutshell, they're wiping down pretty much every surface in a given cabin after each flight.
One might also note that although air travel is obviously in large part for the coronavirus spread, that's not the same thing as planes *themselves* being Petri dishes for contamination. (There aren't really any "pandemic flights," in other words.) For one thing, there have been no reports of aircraft personnel sustaining any significant number of infections – this despite having been rather literally on the front lines, as they are, for nearly three months now. It's likely for a similar reason that public transit hasn't produced many infections, despite hundreds of millions of people using it daily as recently as a week ago: coronavirus can spread with relative ease, but as documented at length in The Times & elsewhere, mass transit systems are (perhaps counterintuitively) not effective means of doing so.
The biggest risk is ensuring *you* don't somehow spread the virus inadvertently after flying – but, again, this is unlikely given the decontamination protocols already in place, and it should be stating the obvious that anyone arriving at their final destination should immediately throw their clothes in the wash, wipe down every exposed surface on their luggage (with a 70% alcohol wipe), and take a very long shower.
Ah to be young again. As long as these travelers are evaluating their risk (has the guy who smokes done that?) and the risk to older parents, coworkers, neighbours, etc who they will encounter on their return, what's the problem? The more people get out of their small corner and see the wold, the better we all are. Besides, at these prices it is sooo tempting.
1
The longer I live the more I value the internal life. I've got my piano, pottery wheel and endless walks. I can last months and be very content.
5
I was in my twenties when the HIV epidemic began. My first friend to die was 26. My next friend was 29. Young people die in epidemics too. There was a profile of who was going to get it, but that wasn't always the case. The first person to die from it in Chicago at the time was an older korean-american female — not predictable. The media gave a false profile of what would and would not happen. Journalists were not particularly worried about accuracy. And the info you got changed drastically as it progresses. In the beginning, Haitians (reused needles in clinics), IV Drug Users, Gay men, later on African Americans, Native Americans (cloistered on the reservations) Finally AIDS wound up as a disease of heterosexuals in the villages of Africa and cities of South Asia.
If I were young, honestly I wouldn't be so cavalier. You are not immortal, even if you are selfish enough to ignore advice which would help others survive, you are stupid to simply pretend this won't effect you. An epidemic is not an ordinary thing. It's exceptional. Like a shark swimming in the water. Unlikely to bite perhaps, but show it respect if you wnat to survive.
8
This is completely selfish thinking. It's the same as anyone thinking that they are more valuable then the common good. They could easily become vectors and spread it to other areas unnecessarily. To travel out of need is one thing but to travel for the sake of a cheap vacation? Disgusting.
6
Being a vector for a virus that could sicken or kill others...not as important as jetting off to enjoy yourself in Hawaii. This kind of mentality reminds me of the mask and hand sanitizer hoarders.
6
Never heard of anything more stupid. People will never learn. I have. With friends and family in Italy I've been shamed into finally believing this is a real crisis. One that can be minimized if we just stay in. Why is that so hard to do. I have an 85 year old mom who will not stay in. She continues to meet with friends, hug new friends who've just flown in from Washington. She thinks anyone who cancels a party is an idiot. People STAY IN! Let's avoid what has happened in Italy. Think about others, not just yourself. Don't go traveling all over the world. It's so very IRRESPONSIBLE at the present moment.
6
If Hawaii felt it necessary couldn’t it declare a state quarantine as Cuomo did for New Rochelle ?
2
Every day 103 Americans die in a traffic accident. And somehow I still drive myself to work.
Every day 109 Americans die from a gunshot wound. I have never stayed home to avoid being shot.
Every day between 100 and 200 Americans die of the flu. No sporting events get cancelled.
The human ability to judge risk is horrible.
The corona virus is one of a super long list of killers. Hopefully our treatment is not worse than than the underlying sickness.
Is taking education away from 5 year olds the answer? Or is putting restrictions on nursing homes a better answer? I don’t know but we should be careful of unintended consequences.
16
@Paul
Please find better sources of information.
NOBODY is taking education away from 5 year olds. But since kids have been proven to be carriers we need to restrict exposure for everyone. Teachers have already been infected by a student. And be honest, many people over 40 have kids in elementary school, 50s and 60s have kids in middle and high school. So let's keep the germ factories open so little Johnnie and Suzi can bring it home to mom and dad who are age-wise at higher risk. They don't really need parents now do they?
16
You can wear a seatbelt to keep yourself safe in a car accident. You don’t stand in front of the targets at the firing range. You can get a flu shot to prevent or lessen the severity of the flu. Conversely, there is NO prevention available for this other avoidance through hand washing and social distancing. The CDC says most Americans will be exposed to this virus in this year or next year. You may have low odds of becoming very ill, but there are millions and millions of us who are vulnerable due not just to age, but also people of all ages with chronic diseases like heart conditions, asthma, COPD, Type 1 and type 2 diabetes, cancer treatments (even those in the past), high blood pressure and many other conditions. How hard is it to see that not taking the preventions for this virus are as necessary to your survival as taking vaccines or wearing seatbelts. If not your survival maybe that of your parents. In-laws, neighbors or friends. This is not rocket science but it is public health based on biological science.
21
@Paul
Except your probability of dying or suffering significant lung damage from the novel coronavirus is much higher than any these activities. If the existing morbidity data is predictive, over a million Americans could die from the coronavirus this year unless the spread is stopped. You don’t seem to understand that coronavirus pandemic could overwhelm the healthcare system, which is already busy handling patients with flu, cancer, injuries from car accidents, etc. We don’t have an unlimited number of doctors, nurses, hospital beds, ventilators. They’d have to triage patients and literally let people die. Don’t you see what’s happening in Italy right now.
2
Why should these kids get to have a fun vacation while all us old people cower in our houses? They should be working double shifts at Starbucks to pay back their student loans!
Glad these kids can afford to have some fun. Relax. They're not going to Hawaii to visit rest homes.
20
Coronavirus didn't keep the seniors from getting on those cruises. Neither did norovirus. Both are contagious diseases. Knowing this, I just can't get angry at millenials for enjoying the suddenly affordable travel.
211
@anae The seniors who were "getting on those cruises" actually booked in advance without knowledge of the global pandemic. Most of the people who contracted COVID 19 on cruises were STAFF not seniors, check it out for yourself. So you wanna give millennials a pass for "enjoying suddenly affordable travel"? When a contagion is going on? It's not just the old peeps who suffer, there are other vulnerable populations, look into it. You may be young, healthy and asymptomatic, but you may also a super-transmitter. Researchers don't know how this novel coronavirus behaves. Stay home, practice self isolation protocols and practice respect in this time of vulnerability. Be respectful dude. Yo
116
@anae Given the tech companies the article references, I don't think these millennials need to be shopping around for bargain flights.
40
@anae To be fair, the cruising crisis was not the result of people assessing risks. They were ignorant because there was a lack of information.
The situation is obviously different today.
79
Lol it's all the people who can't normally afford to fly anywhere. Good for them.
87
@Monsp Yeah, good on those Google, Uber and Twitter employees who can't usually afford to travel.
43
@Monsp just one remark. If someone spends $50 on cigarettes and coffee alone every weekend, I'm sure they can afford traveling even at normal prices if they really want to.
44
As a 30 year old who just booked 15 flights, I totally fall inline with this thought process. To all the wet blankets, stop panic-buying all the toilet paper.
28
@Nick But you'll be the first to tell us how we all need to participate in reducing your student debt. Way to help spread a global pandemic.
83
@Nick
I'm sorry, but your decision is deeply irresponsible.
75
@Nick
If you get stranded or quarantined overseas, tell us about it when you eventually return. A quick trip could turn out to be a long and expensive one.
5
I find it ironic that these same young people complain about how selfish ‘boomers’ are, but will risk infecting others, especially the elderly, bc they can’t pass up a good flight deal. The absolute hubris and hypocrisy is breathtaking and at the same time completely unsurprising. I guess this is the All About Me Generation.
481
@RtisticFX While I don't condone my fellow millenials' behaviors as evidenced in this article, selfishness isn't a zero-sum game: one generation's egotism does not wipe away the sins of a previous ones. In fact, I'd say much of the recklessness and nihilism stems just as much from the reality that your generation already ruined our world!
21
@RtisticFX Maybe millennials learned this behavior from their Boomer parents.
11
@Dale -- I believe you are doing a great job ruining it further.
6
Have fun. Just stay away from your parents and grandparents.
44
"Why not spread a deadly virus if I can get a cheap flight?" Travel restrictions please.
11
I don’t fully understand the comments that people who cannot afford to travel can do so now. There are very inexpensive ways to travel, such as doing a layover between the United States and Europe in Iceland.
And although transportation might be cheaper right now, I can assure these young travelers that if they get stranded by a quarantine in another place it’s going to be a lot more expensive than they anticipated.
12
I'm not surprised by this. Kyoto, which used to have gazillions of tourists, still has a substantial number now. But they are no longer Chinese. There are definitely fewer foreign tourists in general. The hotels lowered their prices and now there are many young Japanese visiting Kyoto. The elderly are staying home though. It is very noticeable if you go downtown or to tourist sites. You can hardly spot an elderly person at all.They used to be everywhere.
5
Following recommended guidelines like staying at home and avoiding large crowds and avoiding air travel helps ALL of us, especially older, more vulnerable citizens. It’s part of the social contract, like Social Security. We all contribute now so that it will be there when we need it. It’s a benefit to all. To travel now without knowing if you are a carrier is selfish and short-sighted.
10
I don't intend to take advantage of any suddenly lowered airfares, but I have nothing against those who do. After all, if you're traveling from one place where the virus already has a toehold to another (and such places include most or all of those mentioned in this article) and you are, unbeknown to yourself, a carrier of the virus, you're not really likely to infect more people by traveling than you are by leading your daily life at home (taking public transportation around your city, going to work, going out, going shopping, getting together with friends, etc.).
4
I would love to take a trip as I am a restless soul but also 74. I guess home it is. But Spring has sprung. The rabbits and chip monks are back. Longer days and more sun. Time for some coffee.
14
@Coger thank you for this wholesome, positive comment ❤️ Enjoy the sunshine and your coffee!
2
I could not have said it better
1
Perhaps this will cause a restriction on US citizens being able to fly to other countries, particularly if they are flying from areas severely affected. I thought the response of Trump last night on this question from reporters about Americans travelling within the US was very weak. He said it would be best if they did not but his own unnecessary jaunts to Florida set a bad example.
6
Meanwhile, airline companies and resellers are complicit in allowing such irresponsible behaviors to spread.
What do airline companies anyway have to gain from slashing the price of flying tickets in times of pandemic by opening the floodgates and sending off near-empty planes instead of playing by the recent rules put into places in such critical times? Efforts should be set on a more productive path, go both towards drastically reducing air-traffic and filter out non-essential travelers beforehand?
Such a strategy runs counter to the proactive actions already undertaken by many countries and flying customers across the globe uniting to fight off coronavirus.
On the customer side, this type of behavior just says something for itself, and in case things turn awry, they will have to shoulder the blame all the way. Obviously, these few bad apples don't care a wit about the consequence of their actions down the line since all they're after is that instant gratification and have some fun at bargain price when others are redoubling effort to doing the grunt work.
Not sure that Italian hospital staffers are in a similar mindset as of now.
Sadly, this is precisely the kind of rogue and selfish attitude that might ruin the effort of many collectively working at damming up the spread of the virus. Let's see soon those petty faces peppering over Instagram, getting the time of their life while others in quarantine are trying to think more collectively.
4
The airlines have one other group of potential fliers to look forward to: people who get the virus and recover. The assumption being that they are then immune. Also they would seem suddenly highly employable, and valuable, if many workers are out sick.
@Dan Calvert
No one knows enough about this virus to comment how it travels between individuals. The standard flu vaccine is no protection. Does it travel through sneezing and coughing? Does it linger on surfaces touched by a carrier? Medical experts, e.g. Dr. Fauci, recommend self isolation at home. He does not exempt young people.
I would not consider hiring an individual because he contracted and survived COVID-19. I would view that individual as a possible asymptomatic carrier. To date there are no stats on immunity due to having survived a bout with this virus.
As I understand it, you can become reinfected.
Wonderful, to see the world! Perhaps our need for social distancing will mean the loss of a few rows and a spreading out some leg room for the rest. The airlines are crying, we will give you a voucher you have to use within a year...
Perhaps it’s on the airlines to stop selling the $50 dollar plane tickets encouraging joy-riding then necessary travel to get where you need to be to hunker down for this virus. I flew on Thursday so that my family would all be in the same place. Now that’s that even though I’m young and relatively safe in the face of this virus personally. If young people don’t have the maturity and self control to make responsible collective decisions airlines can help by not selling rock bottom airfares.
7
This behavior is the ultimate in selfishness and will slow our ability to control this virus. It’s our duty as as individuals and a society to help stop the spread of the disease, and protect the most vulnerable among us from a high risk of death.
5
This is a little off-topic, but with a similar theme. There are many cruise line groups on Facebook, and I recently saw one where a graphic of the plunging share price for Princess stock was displayed. On some cruise lines, if you own stock in the company, you can get extra "perks" or maybe upgrades or discounts, I believe . Anyway, the commenters were just ecstatic at this development, and expressed their hopes that the stock would keep falling. I could not resist posting a comment, asking whether they knew that the entire market was crashing, and their response was that it was "2008 all over again!"
3
I'm 70 -- very healthy. We are working remote for 3 weeks. Heck -- I'm keeping my trip home and working there an extra few days.
Went in and adjusted trips on my carrier with lowered prices. I'm getting so much pushback but I'm super careful -- wash hands and don't touch face. Great immune system. Further the airports and planes are empty now. I'm going.
3
Thanks for the article. Enjoy life and make the most of the time you have. Everything has it's risks. As others have noted, risk in the eye of beholder. I agree with Reed. Whatever your fears, objectively it's a numbers game. Per the cdc last year was a very bad year for the flu (who knew?), approaching the mortality rate of our current crisis. Right now I worry far more that this event will affect the world population economically far more than the direct health risks. I'm in the 60+ age group but heath concerns (virus related) are the least of my concerns.
1
From a purely emotional standpoint, the mood changed after President Trump's failed fireside chat the other night. Reading haltingly and unconvincingly from a teleprompter.
Nothing had changed from a epidemiological standpoint. Confirmed cases were beginning to mount in the US. But people seemed to be going about their business as usual before his speech. His denial, his minimization of the potential risks. Mainly for the economy - his re-election - and less for human life and suffering.
Trump viewed this pandemic as an inconvenient political phenomenon that could be managed with the usual propaganda from his state-controlled media outlet (which will not be named here). And perhaps it is not so surprising that half of the American public believed that Covid-19 was a hoax. The biggest problem (with the global pandemic) was a hostile "media" that should just "shut up."
But I think even those die-hard "conservatives?" have changed their tune - their belief system - thanks to the disastrous intervention (or lack of intervention) of their Fearless Leader. As contagion stalks the land - just look around at the panic - conspiracy theories have taken the place of denial. Distraction. Misdirection...
6
This is mortifying and encapsulates the issues of this "me me me" mentality which has unfortunately become a lot more prevalent.
4
My nephew is getting married on April 4. We had planned to attend the wedding and fly cross country to do so. But I'm sick now, and even if I weren't, the thought of making other wedding guests or plane passengers sick was too much. It was heartbreaking, but we cancelled the long-planned trip and will miss their wedding.
4
I’m a professor at a CSU in Northern California, and before my lecture for a class of ~50 students (a lower division course, with mostly juniors), I overheard a young woman’s comment and it’s selfish excitement: “Classes will be canceled anytime now. Why not get a cheap flight and work remotely in Hawaii.” My disappointment muted the response of other students, and this was only moments before I then spent the next 30 minutes preparing my class for (what I had been precognition for over a week) to perhaps be our last in-person class lecture. It was, at least for this course.
The next day, the campus president allowed faculty to decide how to carry out the remainder of the semester, either in-person classes or shift to online classes. It was left up to faculty. I decided to cancel this class, but only after receiving an email the night before from a potential risk (but responsible) student.
I made the decision to protect my students.
But what weighed on my conscious the entire night before canceling that class, was an email from a student who really needed to hear my message that afternoon — about what it means to care for the person next to you, because, what that means, is that by taking care of them, you taking care of yourself, your family and your loved ones. It was another young woman in my class, with coronavirus-like symptoms, in the back of the room. And I’m sure the other young woman, with dreams of Hawaii, was listening, since most of my message was for her.
3
This reminds me of the U.K. mad cow crisis in the ‘90s. The government ordered all of the cow herds destroyed for fear of the disease, supermarkets were stuck with product on the shelves no one wanted. Solution? They marked it down about 80% and people snapped all of it up in hours. We all price risk, even something as crazy as not eating a 10 dollar sirloin for fear it could kill us, but on the other hand if that steak is now 2 dollars well...
2
So this globe trotter bought into Fauci's nothing burger. However, as this has progressed we have found out that people with damaged lungs are at a much higher risk of complications and dying. Smoking cigarettes causes lung damage as does vaping.
Enjoy the trips, they might be your last. Oh and don't expect the US government to come rescue you.
3
Most people see no more than is what is in front of them. If it is not there in the physical present, many simply cannot imagine it.
Remember that the average person has an IQ of 100, and half are below average.
Add to that the fact that the young think they are bullet-proof ( as I doctor I can tell you that they are not), and there we have it.
The vast majority of these folks will not get sick and die. They will be simply unable to imagine other could-have-beens.
3
I find this a surprisingly conventional version of, Find the Worst Millennial in the World, and Then Pretend That Millennial is an Avatar for all Millennials. Catnip for readers, but a bit unfair to Millennials. We could find a Boomer that is horrible, too, if we really tried.
9
@Tom Thumb
Agree. Joey especially takes the cake, boasting about how much he spends on cigarettes (and coffee), which to my mind consigns him to idiot status, which has nothing to do with his age.
If I were young and healthy, and had no one to care for, I'd be sorely tempted. Part of what this is about is that many people cannot afford travel, yet see tempting stories and ads everywhere, and may have always had the desire. They aren't the privileged who can retreat to their country or seaside estates . . .
If a cruise liner offered a month round-the world trip deal, I wouldn't think twice taking it.
It beats jostling over empty shelves at super markets for toilet paper rolls and hand sanitizers.
2
One of the pre-conditions the disposer to you too serious effects of the coronavirus is being a smoker and that includes smoking marijuana
1
The next time an earnest young Bernie supporter asks an older person why they're so "selfish," I suggest showing them this article.
6
I agree that what they’re doing is irresponsible but I wonder if all the people commenting on this board are still going to be that committed to self-quarantine, distancing and lockdown procedures two or three months down the line.
My suspicion is that a lot of people will get bored and will slowly get back to their regular habits.
1
only young people are doing this? doubt it. hope the boomer remover will qork its magic on more boomers
1
I had gone ahead with a trip to Italy in early March. I had booked back in Dec, and tried to change the date or cancel, but wasn't offered any kind of flexibility then, despite the CDC level 3 warning. And it was a normal ticket price, not any kind of a deal. I went ahead, on account of having to forfeit the fare, and also understanding that the situation in Lazio and Umbria compares favorably to the situation back home in Seattle. I was however astonished to find multiple folks with respiratory illness on the plane to a connection in Dublin, no questions asked on either end. And now, because I feel somewhat ill, with something that is currently not suspected to be COVID, I've decided to stay in Italy through the containment measures. I've missed the last flights out and the borders are closing.
I think the complacency of the airlines, the fact they are the strongest vector for international disease transmission and yet don't have a plan to deal with these situations is quite damning. Hopefully smart laws will be made after this crisis to help consumers make the most moral choice, with the help of the airlines, as opposed to in spite of the airlines.
5
I'm embarrassed to be from their generation. This is a global pandemic. It's not about you "seeing the world." You could be carrying the virus on your globe-hopping and spreading it to those more vulnerable. Absolutely stunned all flights aren't grounded for the time being.
3
Am I disgusted by this behavior? Yes.
Am I surprised? No! People are selfish & egoistic. In some countries/societies it’s more prevalent, in others less.
One of the reasons that the US doesn’t have a better healthcare system is the reluctance of a lot of people to pay “for others”, cause they think that’s what this is. In a Sense, not getting healthcare fixed is quite similar to traveling during these times.
4
Great example of the "Pig Theory." What's in it for me? Solely focused on self.
If the risk was only to the traveler, no issue. Here, however, either the lack of knowledge or the lack of morals causes people to endanger others. Very sad.
1
This is not going to help combat the narrative that millennials are preternaturally self-concerned.
2
Why not..? IF people expect the world to suddenly grind to a halt because of the virus... they're kidding themselves.
3
A 30-year-old smoker thinks if he gets covid-19 it won't be so bad? Does he know this virus is much harder on smokers and people with damaged lungs? Evidently not.
3
This is appalling.
What about their family, friends and trail of innocent people they’ll infect in their wake?
STAY HOME.
You could become infected and not exhibit symptoms. Then you come home and give it to your mom, your dad, your friends, your coworkers and so on...
And if any one of those people are over 60 or immune compromised, there’s a very good chance they will DIE.
Is that really worth it? All for a cheap flight so you could go on vaca?
7
I'm embarrassed to be from their generation. This is a global pandemic. It's not about you "seeing the world." You could be carrying the virus on your globe-hopping and spreading it to those more vulnerable. Absolutely stunned all flights aren't grounded for the time being.
3
Shouldn't there be a "coronavirus surcharge" on all international airline tickets? Say $1,000 dedicated to healthcare?
5
Maybe these are the ambivalent Progressives who got up in the morning with the intention of voting for Bernie, but got distracted by something on NPR and didn't make it out the door.
2
as a gen z, this is so untrue i sat in my seat, dumbfounded, for 2 whole minutes, at a complete loss for words. Most of us have a good sense of how this virus can spread and the dangers that it poses to those of weaker health, and thus take precautions not to endanger ourselves, our loved ones, or our community, especially for such a foolish reason. as for those who do,( a slim minority ) how irresponsible!
8
Be sure to give your grandparents a big hug *before* you leave on your first trip; they won’t be around forever!
3
Whoopee we're all going die.
But not us healthy ones, probably.
We will live forever.
Too bad for those we may infect.
Ya been around too long boomer, too bad.
And hey, I won't have to pay off my student loan.
To be able to ski fresh powder in Utah, I'd consider.
That was my twenty seven year old self talking eons ago.
5
Perhaps the companies/individuals who are offering these low prices on travel should be singled out for their greed and total disregard for the health of all those whose health may be, at this time, compromised for only the dollar. Shame on DeSimone and all of his ilk.
3
this generation is so irony poisoned and arrogant that nothing will stop them from self indulgence. some of these comments are putrid, selfish, all they can see is themselves in the equation. "Even if I get sick I am healthy" but nothing about passing the germs on to anyone else, even in these comments. I resisted it for some time but this crisis really shows that Millennials truly deserve our reputation as entitled, self involved misanthropes.
3
I haven't even read the article yet, I can't get past the photo caption "...why not do it in Hawaii"? Marco Garcia and Jonathan Wolfe, the answer is because we are a very small island state with extraordinary limited resources and a larger population of older folks than many of the cities on the mainland. Working from our beaches means increasing the risk that our vulnerable elderly population will be indirectly exposed to COVID-19 through contact with the sales clerks, rental car agents, and hotel valets they are all related to, and probably live with. Please, please, please - as the rest of the country shuts down to help limit the speed and spread of this virulent new illness - please do not promote Hawaii as a place to escape our collective reality. Please, spread the aloha by coming to visit us when the risk has passed, and we will come to visit you then, too.
7
I didn’t expect the examples of “young” people to be in their 30’s. It’s really about single people who don’t have a partner or children to worry about.
1
It's clear the message is not getting out: all but essential travel needs to end. Shame on the airlines for continuing to peddle these flights and shame on these knuckleheads for only thinking of themselves.
5
This article insinuates that Hawaii is safe to visit because there are no cases here. Not true.
3
Joe DeSimone, if you are lucky and strong, you will be old someday. For now you are just a piece of work.
4
Just read the headline and thought that their needs to be some legal accountability for those gleefully flouting their social responsibility.
2
Hey, if I wasn't a 68 year old old bat, I'd do the same.
Take advantage of it young people & go see the world. Good for you.
1
They’re not likely to get it, or to get it badly, so they run around having fun while merrily spreading the virus—which is only harmful to people who are not them, so who cares? Woo!
3
So much for the social-minded greenish millennial. Sudden no worries about climate change or spreading the virus around the world. But if I (the baby boomer) have to fly to make a living, it’s all evil.
3
Totally irresponsible, immature, un-civic behavior - shame on them.
4
Wow. This feels like the epitome of selfishness to me. Yes, opportunistic Millennials, you can probably be exposed to coronavirus and face few ill effects. But what about everybody else you come in contact with along the way? Your parents, grandparents, the old guy who uses the ATM after you? Is a $150 airfare really worth it?
If you want to do something special during a worldwide pandemic, how about giving blood or seeing if your local Council on Aging or food pantry needs some help.
4
This kind of selfishness makes me sick to the stomach! Do these young people REALLY not know that they are actively contributing to the spread of the virus which, in the worst case, could lead to the possible collapse of health care systems around the world?! Or do they simply not care? Does Mr. DeSimone et al. not mind the possibility of carrying the virus to all his destinations and infecting scores of people who are more at risk than he is? Does he have any idea how dumb and unattractive he sounds?
5
It appears as if the risk of getting really sick for healthy young people is really low, so take advantage. But you are at an increased risk of actully contracting the virus and becoming a carrier, and thereby spreading the disease. So, stay away from vulnerable people like my wife and I, or anyplace we may need to go. Think about that last bit for a moment before you take advantage of this great "opportunity."
46
“I spend more than 50 bucks on cigarettes and coffee in a weekend,” he said, “so like, why not?”
That kind of says it all, doesn't it.
88
Cigarettes coat $13 a pack in New York City. They were $1 a pack when Boomers were young, but now they are heavily taxed to pay Boomer health costs from smoking cheap cigarettes. $50 won’t buy you 4 packs today.
Have these people thought about the possiblity of bringing a disaster to paradise? it's been done repeated by those that care first and foremost about their personal gains rather than a greater good putting innocent hard working people native to paradise at risk. Shame on them for profiting by posing risk to others. I for one, put off my regular trips to caring for my 90 yr. old parents for want of not causing further havoc to them or even in transit. Pandemics are not a cause for people to self-reward themselves with pleasure deals at the expense of others. The airlines should also take this into account. So unfortunate we live in such a selfish world.
42
They may recover easily if infected but what about the at risk folks they might pass the virus on to.
22
I wonder if any of them ever had parents or grandparents or met anyone with cancer or diabetes? Apparently not.
3
This is the big problem in the Trump era where we no longer are asked to make sacrifices for our country or others. Not one of these millennials deigned to think how their travel might affect the health of others. While I have sympathy for the inequalities some of these young people have endured, it is mind blowing that the interviewees only viewed consequences regarding themselves. #disgusted
45
Leaving aside the sheer selfishness and immorality of their behaviour, why on earth would these "young, confident" people want to travel during a pandemic when all they will see (most likely wherever their cheap flights will take them) are ghost-towns, no social gatherings, restaurants that are emptied out, locals who will eye them with mistrust and loathing (rightly so!) for potentially being yet another virus-carrier, and a generally miserable, depressing. soulless atmosphere where everyone is quarantined or self-isolating or socially distancing? Isn't the point of travel to be in a place where the atmosphere is lively (or soothingly pleasant), the locals are welcoming, and places are actually open for business? What enjoyment are they going to find at their destinations in these times?
28
While I strongly disagree with their decision to travel, I do see some of the logic in it. If you need to self isolate why not do it near a Hawaiian beach rather then in your tiny apartment in NYC etc?
2
I'm a millennial and this is not common behavior. Most of my peers are following quarantine guidelines, working from home, and engaging in "social distancing." I think this story was written to drum up disgust and outrage. I don't think it's the actual state of things.
47
Not only that, but these attributions have always been made of the young in any era.
3
Yesterday in Galveston, thousands of passengers boarded a Carnival cruise lines vessel for Mexico. When asked by reporters several passengers said media hysteria was overblowing whatever threat may really exist.
Delta just suspended all flight to and from Europe.
Maybe a moratorium on cruises which are floating incubators for pathogens?
31
Fifty bucks on coffee and cigarettes is only 4 coffees and one pack of smokes!
7
@Julia Williamson Geez, how much are your coffees down there (as I see that cigarettes cost around $5.50 a pack in Florida)?
I wanted to visit my partner but ended up cancelling my flight. My concern is not that I will contract the virus--which is what those interviewed here seem to worry about--but that I will communicate the virus to others. Without testing, it's difficult to know whether I may be a carrier or whether I will contract it in the process of flying. Especially because I'm leaving from NYC, I am not confident that I won't be a risk to others. That amount of uncertainty, especially when it involves the health of others, was enough for me to cancel a long-desired trip to visit my partner.
I hope that others will think about their social responsibility as they make flight decisions. Some flights cannot be avoided, but perhaps others can.
36
Doesn’t anyone remember what it feels like to be 20, invincible, and the owner of a skinny wallet?
15
@Sgallagher
Empty wallet yes, but that arrogant and self centered no. I was a HAZMAT 1st responder and in the USAF at that age. My brother and sister were in the Air Force.
6
@Sgallagher yes, I remember, but I had a moral compass too. I would never have done something so reckless as travel during a global pandemic.
5
The messaging in America that the virus only affects the sick and elderly is wrong and that is what is causing such behaviours among the young. In Singapore, we have had 200 cases of which 103 are still hospitalised (so no, it’s more than a “bad flu”). The median age of affected patients is 47. That is certainly far from “elderly”. We are also recently seeing more imported cases due to people who travel and return from Europe, US and other parts of Asia.
32
Many people are complaining about “this generation” meanwhile other respected outlets are reporting on seniors insisting on living their best lives by flouting social distancing, throwing senior home parties, booking cruises and other events. One senior said that is she gets stuck on a cruise it will only extend her vacation. Young or old, anyone leisure travelling right now should be the last attended to if they come back sick. They’re clearly making a choice knowing the current situation.
10
I love the Hawaiian beaches, Ono sandwiches in the ABC corner stores, higher-class seafood in restaurants, but I hate the check-in procedures at airports. Saying nothing of the 8 to 10 hours on the plane.
1
I can see why some countries have managed to contain the Corona virus and why the US is going to have a difficult time. It takes people who are committed and who care for others, not just for themselves. I am appalled at the attitude of these millennial.
21
I’m ordered to work from home next week. I’m off to FL to visit my parents and work there. 500 ppl in NYS have been infected out of how many million?? Most have very mild symptoms.
Also, my parents are not in a bubble in FL. They are interacting with ppl down there too. Hello sunshine!
4
@AW Hopefully you won't give it to them but it sounds like they will catch it on their own.
What a difference a few decades make. I traveled the rugged road through exotic locales and third world countries when I was in my 20’s and early 30’s...but you couldn’t pay me to get on a plane right now.
Young people believe that they’re immune, invincible. All it takes is one potentially life-threatening illness to rid them of that notion.
14
@Susanna
It's like what Mike Tyson once said: "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth"
Well, profit is profit and one can hardly fault a profit-based economic system for pursuing profit. Duh. As for customers in general and young people in particular, we/they all thought/think we're/were immortal. I didn't have a clue about mortality until roughly age 40. As for social responsibility--i.e. not transmitting a communicable disease--social responsibility hasn't had much currency in America since Reagan unless it's connected to either Supporting The Military or something allegedly "christian". After all, this phenomenon is only a more catastrophic version of people booking Caribbean cruises August-October. Something about crooked timber of something comes to mind.
16
It isn't just about risk to oneself, it is also about risk of infection to and from those around you. The fact that people have been directed to work from home, is not free license to go on holiday. A pandemic is not just another snow day, cheap fares or not.
18
The lady who checked me out at the grocery store tonight was easily closer to 80 than 70, working at 8 PM! While I loaded my groceries onto the belt wearing nitrile gloves, she went about it all normally. My heart bleeds that she had to be doing this job at her age and couldn't just stay at home. Let's not forget that a lot of seniors are unable to subsist on their Social Security checks and must go to work in low wage jobs, at great risk to their health today. I'm 70 and if I had to stand behind a cash register for a 6-8 hour shift, I'd be weeping and hope the virus took me quickly.
The deeper we get into this, the more Andrew Yang's $1000/month per citizen looks really really good. He should jump back into the race.
195
@Karen K
Thank you for this. I have noticed the same: the people patiently working the extra long hours at overrun shops seem to be in the most threatened groups, and also to be the calmest. But what choice do they have, really? No one's letting them 'work from home'.
46
@Karen K,
I agree with you 100%!!
9
@Karen K we had a mid-80’s cashier at our local drugstore. She said she far preferred working to being lonely at home. She was part-time.
10
It is telling that Mr. DeSimone, as reported here, considers the risk to no one other than himself.
112
And that the $50.00 plane ticket is less then spends on cigarettes.
7
I want to know why airlines are continuing these commercial flights between affected countries and putting everyone's lives at risk, including their employees. Are they not waking up to the fact that this is a GLOBAL pandemic and they are contributing to the surest way this virus will spread to all regions of the world?
62
I agree. I think I would have the utmost respect for an airline that paused flights or temporarily suspended flights for the sake of the public good. so far it seems they just want to make money, not caring for their passengers as their lame emails suggest.
1
@ag13 You could have the utmost respect but that respect doesn't pay their employees or other expenses. And I doubt you'd be willing to pay a premium to fly them for your next trip.
It's called "risk assessment" and is a necessary component of all decision making. The risk of contracting Coronavirus may be about equal to many of the other risks in travel...or even staying home. Most of the time we are blind to these risks, but the heightened awareness of this virus can create a distorted impression of the actual risk.
Under the current circumstances, the greatest risk to travelers is probably secondary disruptions due to unpredictable flight delays/cancellations, closed museums and public facilities, the risk of government imposed quarantines, arbitrary or not. It all depends on where you are going and when.
I call it "crisis tourism", which can be rewarding in some cases, particularly when political or economic disruptions create a perception of risk where the actual risk has been exaggerated by fearful public opinion or negative press.
Risk induces fear, and overcoming fear is, in itself, edifying. Still, self preservation requires doing some homework, and an astute assessment of all possible risk factors.
98
@Reed Erskine
Interesting that you frame it as risk *to travellers*, since at least half the point of social distancing, etc., is having some consideration for all the others one might potentially infect, especially if you don't have symptoms.
The reason it's considered a global pandemic is because it's . . . global . . . so I guess we can look forward to places like Hawaii becoming the next viral hotspots.
But hey, 50 bucks.
145
The problem is that “risk assessment” seldom considers moral hazard, e.g the likelihood of acting as a vector for CV that’s ultimately leads to *someone else* who is more susceptible becoming critically ill. It is the public health risk that must be considered, not the risk to the traveler.
126
Sure. Risk assessment is a part of everyday life, no less when confronting a communicable disease with many unknown parameters that clouds those calculations. There’s also civic and social responsibility. I’m not surprised that the latter is absent for those looking for a cheap ‘grammable experience.
81
I am astounded by the correlation of $50 for smokes and coffee a weekend vs. travel, so why not?
Um, but frankly, eugh ....
This epidemic, is not "spring break". Sure, as a youth take what you can of it, but also get over yourself, grow up and take a look around.
Many people are scared and potentially suffering.
40
I've been traveling for 7 years, when this started I booked flights back to Canada. I was in Australia and had a stop in Fiji. Hotel neighbors in Fiji had gotten out of China before the travel ban, they weren't alone. My flight through Hong Kong, was cancelled, then my flight through Singapore was cancelled. I had to fly to Auckland to get back to Canada, but things were moving so quickly that flights were unavailable. By then I had been on 5 planes in 10 days. I'm over 60 and was surprised and dismayed by the cavalier attitude of my younger friends. I worried a little for myself, but was careful, in case I'd picked something up. The friend I stay with has a compromised immune system another has cancer. I opted to take over a friend's house in another town who was traveling...I did suggest to him, that he shouldn't go. There were tons of unknowns, canceled flights, changed policies. I saw a Dutch couple denied boarding because they didn't have a transit visa through the US...cost $800. I saw people stranded, because their flights had been canceled while in the air. I've traveled to 90 countries...I can guarantee you that there are about 70 I wouldn't want to get stuck in. I had my fingers crossed and got back to Canada...I opted not to go to the US, because as far as medical it is a 3rd world country. I'm in self-quarantine now and grateful. I would not travel now, no matter how cheap. I have been stuck in the Moscow terminal, unable to leave without a visa.
119
I echo Mike Jacobs's comments ;
Where is the Sense of Community, or the Sense of Social Responsibility ??
In a trying and stressful time like this, every able-bodied individual has to search his or her soul, and ask themselves - If they can be Compassionate and Show Loving Kindness- to themselves, and to their neighbours, and co-travellers (on the public transit, and on the streets). It is easy and irresponsible (in my opinion) to "run away" from the problem, and to be self-centered, and to perhaps be a "silent carrier" of the virus, and , as E in Hawaii noted, infect some other poor (and pregnant, or elderly and frail,souls at their destination, or on the airplane.
Come on people - it is never too late to "do the right thing" !!
41
If the Chinese mortality rate for younger people is 0.2%, and milder cases may not have been reported, that would mean the actual mortality rate is even lower than 0.2% for this age group.
From age 25 to 45, I rode a motorcycle, for a total of 200,000 miles. I had some minor mishaps, none serious. I suspect, in that 20 years of motorcycling, my chances of a very serious or fatal accident was probably over 0.2%. As I got older than 45, I could see my reactions slowing, and transitioned to automobiles. But 0.2% is one out of 500. Your odds are worse trying to cross Queens Boulevard on foot.
7
@RM "But 0.2% is one out of 500. Your odds are worse trying to cross Queens Boulevard on foot."
I don't know Queens Blvd, but if 1 in 500 people crossing it are killed, it must be terribly dangerous!
2
@RM
With the evidence of mass graves and few healthy people to man the factories, the number of infected and dead are likely higher than what is being reported. Of the major hot spots, I fear Italy is the only one telling the truth.
3
I'd do it to but with one concern: still need to get through airports at both ends while flight attendants and baggage handlers might be the worst carriers of COVID-19 among us. But I certainly don't fault people willing to take the risk. Have fun!
64
@Johnno
"I'd do it to[o]"
"I certainly don't fault people willing to take the risk. Have fun!"
This is not mountain climbing or tight-rope walking. It's not about taking a personal risk. It's about spreading disease - to others.
How did America come to produce such egocentric spoiled brats?
74
@Johnno It's a community risk as well as a personal risk. The behavior is selfish and ignorant. No concern for exposing lethal doses to susceptible populations if you most likely will just experience a mild flu.
47
@Drew Wait! I agree with that, although I wasn't clear in my comment. I should have been. One of the biggest reasons I wouldn't do this is that I increase the probability that I become a carrier. On the other hand, if the idea is to go somewhere and isolate oneself then you lower the chances of being exposed. If there was a way to ensure I didn't pick it up at airports or in flight or other sorts of transportation then I'd be all for it!
6
This is just gross. You may not get sick but you could be spreading the virus to those who will get sick and die from it.
I am so proud of my thirty something daughter right now. She lives in a upper west side building with a significant elderly population. She is doing everything possible to stay away from crowds and behave responsibly. She had access through work to order a case of Clorox wipes and handed a tub to the doormen in her building.
It’s not always about having fun, guys. And while you won’t die from corona, it looks like you are headed to death by cigarette!
71
I already had bookings for my Europe summer vacation, and am facing the hard facts: even if I were to be asymptomatic - which I doubt, given how badly the flu hits me - it would be a logistical nightmare to be quarantined away from home. Couldn’t stay in a hotel long-term (even if I could afford it), unfair to the staff and other clients. Couldn’t stay with friends, or even airbnb, for the same reason. How will I feed myself if I am supposed to stay away from people? At home it’s possible to prepare for that eventuality, not to mention have internet access, etc. I’d have to be critically ill to be hospitalized, which of course is not a preferable option.
The only upside I can see, until Trump’s promises regarding testing come true, is that I would be more likely to get tested abroad than at home!
11
Just a non-mathematical version of vector calculus. This adaptation doesn't require any social responsible thought, just reckless action.
14
The "me" generation at its finest. Not caring one whit about potentially spreading a deadly virus to other communities or to more vulnerable people. Seriously, what is wrong these people that can't give consideration to anything beyond their own narrow self-interests?
52
It’s not just this generation. Another esteemed outlet has reported on Seniors insisting on “living their lives” by holding parties, booking cruises and safaris. Selfishness and arrogance has no age limit.
4
Why are airlines allowed to offer these pandemic flights anyway? Don't THEY have any more social responsibility than their heedless customers? They're not only helping to spread the virus, they're putting their cabin crews and airport employees at risk too.
669
@Emma Ess The airlines are businesses that employee hundreds of thousands of people. These people would almost instantly be out of a job if air travel was banned and may not be able to afford food or healthcare.
They take people not only to work from Hawaii but also to their family members, or perhaps there are doctors on board that need to get to virus hot spots in the country.
It's easy to see only the most immediate and scary threat. But someone needs to see the bigger picture.
21
@Daniel The bigger picture is that they needlessly contribute to climate change and the spread of the virus.
33
@Daniel The bigger picture is that they needlessly contribute to climate change and the spread of the virus.
5
A few things these selfish clowns might not have thought about :
1. They could get stuck due to a lockdown in another country,
2. They could unknowingly spread the virus during its incubation period to older and/or immunocompromised people,
3. They could spread the virus to a developing nation with a limited healthcare resources, a lack of ventilators, few ICU beds and be responsible for needless deaths, and
4. They could themselves end up in a foreign hospital!
91
Actually #4 is not a bad outcome.
2
I’m a young millennial flying to a beach to surf next week. Let’s hope I get “stuck.” Hahaha
Remind me why I shouldn't assume Millennials are the most self-absorbed, thoughtless generation of all time?
40
Read yesterday’s WP and you’ll learn about the seniors behaving the same way: cruises, parties and safaris. It’s not an age thing. It’s an entitlement thing,
18
@Bee Re-read the article you referred to. It was not about the entitlement of "seniors." It was about *class* and the entitled super-rich who construct health cocoons, no matter their age.
4
These people are everything that is wrong with my generation. Selfish and arrogant!
21
20-somethings can't compute illness or how their bodies can betray them. They think they'll always be strong and able. To expect them to understand risk is hopeless. They simply cannot. Nor, is empathy very high on their radar. Understanding the risk their travels might present to others back home is also not likely. There are few highly evolved 20-somethings. These kids will just do what they do, without regard for the consequences, and the rest of us be damned.
13
"Young, Confident and Flying, Virus Be Damned"
" Young, stupid reckless , self-centered, & Flying."
26
I live in Hawaii. My foster daughter is a cancer survivor with an unpredictable immune system. Another friend is immune-compromised. Three words to these travelers: DON’T COME HERE! You actually threaten the lives of people I love and know by making the decision to travel in these times.
88
@Em
Hawai'i has travelers from all over the world, all the time. This virus will surface there, just as it is surfacing now in Alaska. My brother (in Seattle) tried to tell me last week that eventually the virus would arrive 'even in Fairbanks'.
I had to tell him that we usually have YUGE numbers of Chinese tourists in the winter, and they take over all the hotels and restaurants and it was quite likely that Fairbanks was one of the first places to be exposed. (Lots of people crowded into warm places in thirty degree below zero weather). While it's true that the first verified cases in Alaska are only being reported now, it's also true that, in Trumpian fashion, there has been very little testing happening here.
Your best choice is to self quarantine your foster daughter to the extent possible and make sure she takes whatever supplements you believe in (echinacea, goldenseal and elderberry are recommended as well as vitamins C & D), gets plenty of rest, and fresh air well away from crowded places.
5
@Em I feel for you. I cancelled my upcoming trip to Hawaii. I thought I could drive somewhere for my vacation instead but now realize it is my responsibility to stay home, and not possibly spread it to other parts of the country.
4
Fact is, non essential plane travel has always been selfish. The argument put out here by so many posters is that this time you're putting lives at stake if you go flying. Not a thought previously for the environmental havoc wreaked by decades of jet travel-- the species loss, the climate disruption. One month ago, it was impossible to find even 5 percent of the anti travel posters we have now. Shame on you, as Greta would say. When this virus is over, will we all venture back into the skies, comforting ourselves in the notion that rising seas and routine 110 degree temperatures are a very distant prospect? No. This pandemic should be a training exercise for living without travel. That point should be hammered home.
480
@AJ Amen. One lesson to take from not traveling by air during the pandemic is to carry that forth after the pandemic and very much cut back on air travel. Huge polluter
16
@AJ Please define non-essential.
12
@AJ I agree! One of the things I'm impressed by is how quickly people are changing their habits. Now let's apply this to climate change which is a much more catastrophic threat.
29
Just had to cancel my wedding in Ireland out of safety and travel concerns. I am totally heartbroken. The idea that someone is selfishly taking advantage of this terrible situation infuriates me.
84
@J Williams,
Thank you for being responsible! I wish you a beautiful wedding when this is all over!
7
Its interesting how young people use the analogy 'if I get it, it will be like a bad flu", they forget the flu kills thousands of people a year. Something else they forget, is, what if you get sick in a country that doesn't have the medical facilities to provide the healthcare your sure to need should you contract Covid-19.
I'm young, and I don't want it, because I've had a bad flu, (I've since never failed to get a flu shot) and not know whether your going to live or die, and that's inside the U.S. I can tell you from personal experience there's nothing worse than your lungs filling with fluid, and having to be put into a medically induced coma in order to be intubated and put on a ventilator. Not knowing whether your going to wake up or not, is pretty scary at any age.
The reason so many people in this country are so blase' about the Covid-19 virus, is because the so called POTUS has had the same approach to this virus. My question to these travelers is if Covid-19 killed young and old alike, would they feel the same way. And what happens if they are in Amsterdam and get sick and can't travel back to the U.S.
It just amazes me how the needs of the one, outweigh the public needs of the many.
30
These kids are too young to remember the AIDS epidemic. I thought the dying of friends and acquaintances would never end.
27
Anyone who has been buying cigarettes should not be scoffing at this virus, no matter how young they are
51
Oh goodie just what the world needs right now; a bunch of selfish Typhoid Mary’s traveling the globe and spreading their love.
27
Yup. It's all about you. Live it up. Have the time of your life.
7
It seems like the airline industry is trying to have it both ways. They will no doubt accept coronavirus relief from the government, yet with these price reductions, they are encouraging spontaneous travel that can perpetuate the spread of the virus. By the way, not all millennials are selfish. My twenty something son and daughter have had a March trip to Hawaii planned since November. They are cancelling it in light of all that's going on. Let's hope the airline treats them fairly.
282
Sometimes government is needed to curb behavior that is harmful to others. If we don't like these people trotting around the globe right now, do we think the government should impose restrictions to prevent nonessential travel? Or is their behavior not quite awful enough to risk further losses for the airline industry? Hmmm....
9
@mm
All vacations are non-essential.
13
May we please try a modified set of adjectives, such as young, confident, narcissistic, and indifferent to the consequences of their actions?
14
While it would be amazing to take advantage of these deals, and I’m not worried about the personal consequences due to my low risk profile, it’s irresponsible to travel, particularly from an area with high rates of infection, risking spread to others who may be high risk. This is really just reinforcing the negative stereotypes some people believe about us millennials.
19
It is not just us older folks that are at risk. Those with autoimmune deficiencies (which includes kids) are also at risk.
18
This quote was especially telling: “I spend more than 50 bucks on cigarettes and coffee in a weekend,” he said, “so like, why not?”
So clearly he's already well accustomed to endangering his health and that of others through second-hand smoke.
How about this: Wait a few weeks or months until things settle down? There will always be travel deals.
23
As someone in Hawaii who is pregnant and terrified, I can assure them that I do not want them here. How selfish can you be to go joyriding around the globe spreading the infection? People who are vulnerable depend on the mercy (and intelligence) of others. It's too bad these people neither seem to recognize that reality nor care.
1013
@E and for many reasons like this one Italy has blocked all movements, closed airports and businesses and obliged people to stay home...
36
@E According to what I have read, pregnant women and babies are at low risk for this virus. Take it easy.
9
@CC I live in Hawaii and work in the hospitality industry. My 80 year old Mom lives with us, multigenerational living being the norm in Hawaii for cultural and economic reasons. I’m sure I’ll be fine if I get COVID-19 from some tourist. My Mom .... she’s a different story. I guess it sucks to be us.
39
Might this be the occasion to recognize the damage that jet aircraft are causing to the environment and JUST STAY HOME?
16
This guy spends more than 50$ a weekend on cigarettes and coffee? That is objectively abhorrent
22
As has been said for generations.....
.. the young, they are inexperienced and do not know what they do not know.... and as a result.. tend to do foolish things.
5
Typical young americans care zero for anyone other than themselves especially the well off ones. No wonder they are too lazy to vote or even care about anything of importance in the world other than their own selfish fulfillment
8
Despicable. Are those the same people that came up with the Ok, boomer thing?
Beyond vapid. Dangerous.
32
If I have the right to choose whether or not I wish to abort an unwanted child, I cannot see why anyone should have a problem with traveling outside the United States, especially
so at this horrible time in our nation's history with the criminal Trump in the White House.
1
I’m sure that makes sense to you. Trump is horrible, so it’s okay to spread a potentially fatal disease?
Please don’t explain.
19
The paranoid commentators are such a downer.
6
You know what’s also a downer (besides ignoramuses), people who know better than scientists. Oh, right, they are one and the same.
20
Yeah that sounds about right for millennials... they will go down in history as the narcissist generation.
9
The NYT should not be publishing "cool" articles like this at this time. It is spreading ideas. Many didn't even know about these airline "specials." That is why the virus is really impossible to contain. With this kind of me first and complacent thinking--and then media amplifying it--it is difficult to to coordinate for the common good.
61
And you plugged his business so he benefits from his irresponsibility. Great job!
22
Inappropriate headline for irresponsible and dangerous behavior.
38
Wow. This is selfish beyond words. It's not about you, young healthy person. It's about the virus you will spread to those older or less healthy than you. Stay put. Be a responsible citizen of the world. Don't spread this virus just because you can.
Beyond belief.....
54
It's not being emphasized in the news, but it has been stated, more than once, that smokers are probably at higher risk for COVID complications. Which might explain why supposedly healthy young adults have died, while children are barely affected. Italy apparently still has a pretty high rate of smokers compared to many parts of the world (including the US) and in China, up to half of all men still smoke.
160
@JanAtheCPA Maybe you should have done a couple of minutes of research before posting. According to Wikipedia, China has a significantly higher rate of smoking compared to Italy. And from what I see on the Internet, nowhere near half of men in Italy smoke.
4
@Bill Loney Maybe you should have read JanAtheCPA's post more carefully. Jan says that Italy apparently still has a "pretty high rate of smokers" as compared to many parts of the world. As a separate point, Jan notes that 1/2 the men in China still smoke. Those two separate observations do not combine to imply that 1/2 the men in Italy smoke. The simple point is that people who are smokers appear to be more vulnerable.
21
@JanAtheCPA
I'm assuming you're referencing the quote about spending $50 a week on coffee and cigarettes?
3
From a guy who is stuck in China during the epidemic:
I was seriously thinking about going to Europe or South Korea for this extended holiday, but in the end some family issues held me up. I am so glad I didn’t go. These places are now becoming hotspots: flights are limited and everyone from these countries are subject to a long-time quarantine.
So the point is: even if you’re just thinking for yourself and don’t care about the possibility of you transmitting the virus, it is possible that you’ll be stuck in your destination or experience shortage of essentials because there is a time delay in the outbreak. Nowhere except your own home is safe right now. I guess at that time the $50 tickets won’t seem so alluring.
29
Hey, Joe DeSimone! It's not just you! Yes, you'd likely recover from the coronavirus, but the person you spread it to might not! Is that really so hard to understand?
635
While it's true that mostly folks with compromised immune systems, diabetics, and elderly will die, Mr. DeSimone forgot a group...smokers. How much exactly do you spend on smokes? Not sure I'm down with your logic, here.
40
It’s all about him!
20
What-aboutism at its finest!
6
When I was in my 20s I did a lot of questionable and downright dangerous things while traveling to and from exotic locations, dodging bandits and trigger-happy royal guards and man-eating crocodiles and tsetse flies and elephantiasis and leprosy and malaria, and even the plague.
I figured, correctly, that I was pretty much the only one at risk in these adventures, and if I paid some price for misjudgments that was only fair.
However, I would not do the things described in this article because they would risk bringing back pestilence to my friends and family, particularly my especially vulnerable grandparents. It would be quite a burden to carry through life, knowing that I had unnecessarily transmitted a dangerous disease to someone close to me (or even to people I didn’t know so well).
Best of luck to these foolish gadabouts; they’ll need it.
265
@Mon Ray : at age 30, these young people likely have PARENTS who are 60 or 65 years old….not to mention co-workers, friends, colleagues, people they encounter in their apartments or out shopping.
The POINT in a pandemic is not just "are YOU sick" or "will YOU personally survive" -- it is how many people do you infect, with your careless selfish behavior?
34
@Mon Ray You've got it exactly right. Doing things that put only yourself at risk, fine. Possibly spreading sickness to lots of others, not ok.
8
Why am I not surprised at all that tech company yuppies have absolutely zero regard for spreading this disease to vulnerable populations? What a pity it would be if their destination countries in South America and other regions with low infection rates implement travel bans against people from affected regions like the U.S. And the bartender from Chicago is not worried because we've "gone through ebola before"? Wow, ok.
364
@Taylor
Or, what if when they are there, that an outbreak happens and now they are trapped in a country where access to healthcare is nonexistent even for Americans. You can't fly out, now what. I've been to South America many times, and disease runs rampant and healthcare is nonexistent.
20
@James I've also been to South America where "healthcare is nonexistent". Which is why very few cases are recorded, so it's actually an unknown in many third world countries. But they have closed the borders in Guatemala and the situation changes fast...can you imagine being stuck in Guatemala? But let them learn. Fiji sounds nice, doesn't it, I was just there...wouldn't want to be stuck in Fiji either.
14
@thewriterstuff I recently read about the Spanish Flu and was surprised to find out (though it made sense) that places like Samoa and Fiji had a much higher infection and death rate than other places. Can you imagine being the one to bring Coronavirus to Fiji from San Francisco. Horrendous.
9
“I spend more than 50 bucks on cigarettes and coffee in a weekend,” he said, “so like, why not?”
Says it all.
600
@NYT reader: Yes, and the fact that he smokes cigarettes will greatly increase the severity of his lung infection if he succumbs to the virus.
55
@NYT reader
I was thinking the same thing, if he's going through that many cigarettes, and coffee, he has bigger problems than potentially contracting the Covid-19 Virus.
46
Fly around and spread the disease. Hmmm, doesn't sound so savvy to me.
139
@TLUF
So I wonder what would happen if pilots started to fall ill, would the rest just stop flying, they can't work from home (many people can't). It floors me when the government says work from home, sure but many jobs can't be done remotely.
4
Living in the pandemic of the corona virus, I am simply outraged by the ignorance and arrogance of these people : there are no borders for this, you can fly wherever you want ( cheap! ) but this will also help to spread more the infection.
This is serious, dangerous and deadly, just read the numbers, may be they will change their mind.
The only way to delay/stop this is to stay home !
209
It’s about the common good (like vaccinations) This disregards the risks to others and seems so selfish.
102
You never think it will happen to you. I hope they’re right. Especially Joe, who apparently smokes cigarettes.
80
We were all young, invincible and immortal once. Enjoy it.
But remember - if you're one of the 20% who contract a "bad" case of COVID19, your real risk is not death - it's permanent lung damage.
112
@Joe W
Not to mention infecting everyone else.
12
@Joe W
And that's at any age....
7
@Joe W: If he keeps smoking, he's going to get permanent lung damage anyway. (Which is not to say that he should travel. He should stay home before he potentially infects other people.)
11
Traveling on the cheap during a world-wide pandemic? Fly now, pay later.
70
Why is this irresponsible, selfish behavior being promoted in this way?
252
@Paul It’s called capitalism.
16
I guess it depends where you are going. I've been trying to book a ticket to Israel for August and then again in January 2021. Ticket prices have not dropped at all. In fact, El Al, the Israel national airline is still charging premium rates even as they say they are laying off 80+% of their staff. On paper, supply and demand should make all these prices drop; in reality, it ain't happin'.
11
@Chaim Casper
Same thing is supposed to happen when you give corporations a 30% tax cut. Since consumers pay 80% of corporations taxes, because those costs are built into the product or service your buying. In other words, the Apple iPhone should be 30% cheaper due to Apples tax cut. Oddly, that's not the case, Apple calls that, a rise in profits.
7
@Chaim Casper Ditto for us. Moving to a new country this summer and the only cheapish flights have layovers in current hot zones. Singapore, Doha, Istanbul, etc. -- pricing as usual.
1
I am a medical student in my late 20s. This behavior of millennials is embarrassing. This is not about you, this is about global health. You might be 30 and seemingly healthy and unknowingly carry the virus, resulting in the death of those more vulnerable. Traveling right now is extremely selfish. If you are in your 20s you likely have parents, grandparents, coworkers, or friends who will be hospitalized because of this pandemic. It’s time to think about others beyond yourself.
1650
@RGH My rotations have not been cancelled. Elective surgeries have not been cancelled. It's hard to say how concerned my administration really is. Until they say something, how do I judge the severity?
7
@RGH Oh, please. Unless you live in a very, very rural area, everybody in modern society is going to be exposed to this virus. Not taking a flight won't make any difference at all.
25
@RGH
Not to mention the fact that Joe DeSimone appears to a moderate-to-heavy smoker. Despite his age, that puts him at risk for a severe respiratory reaction to the virus, does it not?
66
“Odds are, if I get sick, it will be like a bad flu.”
And will it be like a bad flu for the elderly or immunocompromised person you potentially infect?
252
Hubris run amok - this guy’s a smoker and apparently didn’t get the memo about respiratory damage and C-19!
26
I'm a 30-something tech worker and I find this behavior disgusting. Just because you're young and healthy doesn't give you the right to potentially bring the virus to another part of the world. It's clear these children aren't thinking of the vulnerable populations they'll potentially infect who don't have health insurance or a steady paycheck. Don't forget to pack your "selfish stick" so we can publicly shame you.
328
@Jess
Well Jess, that means that you had proper home training, that somewhere along the line your parents taught you, that there are times when the needs of the many become paramount. It's awesome to see younger person that somehow seem wiser than their years.
17
@Jess I am also a 30-something tech worker, and I completely agree. The self-centered behavior of our industry colleagues in this article... well, I'd say it was shocking but let's be honest, are either of us really shocked?
16
Where do public health conscience and considerations figure into these purchasers decision making .....? They seem absent!
We would all be well served by national YouTube and TV videos spin by the USG explaining and re-explaining public health philosophy and attendant practices to the nation.
30
People who travel by air unnecessarily now are being incredibly selfish. To save a few bucks and "see the world," they are willing to pick up and spread a potentially deadly virus to the unsuspecting.
Might as well get drunk, pull out a six-shooter and walk down the street blasting in the air, all the while howling USA! USA! USA!
131
I'll expand a previous thought with two literary references.
1) "Station Eleven"
A young women is stranded sickened staring at a fleet of ships she herself is responsible for managing.
2) "A Small Place"
Do you really want to be sick in a place far from home? Trips to Antigua are certainly cheap right now but have you ever wondered why your toilet paper goes in the waste bin?
30
This article is an example of lack of social responsibility towards the people in risk. This is not a holiday opportunity. This is serious stuff
92
Selfish behavior.
54
You spend more than $50 on coffee and cigarettes on a weekend? I spent several years in tourism and travel related industries. Just going to point out the obvious. I see a tourist. You're the tourist. No one here is happy about your presence. Go home. Sorry you live in an infected area. That's where you live though. Tough. Tell it to refugees the next time you feel like voting Republican. I have zero sympathy.
190
Hey Hawaii ... heads-up. Coronavirus coming your way via remote working Seattleites! Bigly!
225
This is just selfishness. The whole point in not traveling is to protect the elderly and vulnerable, to avoid spreading this thing.
79
These young people are just irresponsible. If one of them is a virus carrier, he/she will spread the virus to other people, even old people, who are more susceptible to developing acute and severe symptoms.
550
@Vincent
They forget that one day they will be the "old" ones.
45
@Vincent Don't forget that 'old' people can be irresponsible too. If you give people the opportunity to do something that is normally out of their reach, they will inevitably take advantage of it because they can. It's up to the government to decide that domestic travel is irresponsible and take measures to prevent it.
3
An advantage to being young and carefree while Boomers shelter in fear. You will meet adventurous travelers while the tourists stay home and contemplate their bucket lists.
8
@Rick “You will meet other adventurous travelers”...and infect them.
10
Young and thoughtless is more like it.
Can’t you just imagine the self-congratulatory bravado of these “non-tourist” tourists as they risk spreading the virus to countless innocents? But don’t worry, kids, it’s more fatal for others!
Since when is being a responsible citizen and neighbor “cowering in fear”?
15
@Rick
I've been in third world countries South America comes to mind. My traveling partner became very ill with Dengue, you know the disease transmitted by mosquitoes, the one that can kill you. He was very, very lucky to survive, it had nothing to with medical care, since there wasn't any. It was because of the locals that he survived.
Being young and adventurous is one thing, being stupid and traveling when a pandemic is happening, potentially infecting many, many, more, is selfish. I hope that they wind up stuck in a foreign country unable to leave.
14
"The next thing".
Yes, I know, you thought "OK Boomer" medical professionals and officials, no big deal, I am not the at risk group.
Youth always believes they are indestructible.
26
@Heidi
My friends grandfather used to say, youth is wasted on the young. Being a kid, it went over my head, last year when I turned 45, I realized what he meant.
Youth really is wasted on the young, imagine if you could go back to being 25, but retain everything you've learned in 45 years of being alive. Now imagine one day being 100, and the next day, your 25, but you have 100 years of life experience to look back on, to use, imagine how different your decisions would be.
The last pandemic we had was the Spanish Flu, millions died including young. Diseases like Covid-19 don't discriminate, while the old are more likely to die from it, that doesn't mean that young people won't contract it, and die as a direct result of it.
5
@James I'm 63. You know what? I suspect that if I were 25 again, but armed with my 63 years of experience and knowledge, I'd take a LOT more risks than I did when I was actually 25. That's at least half of what the expression "youth is wasted on the young" means.
1
@James
There was a Star Trek: Next Generation episode when Picard is transmogrified (thx Hobbes, thx Calvin) into a young man.
But he carries with him a view of his older self: caution where a young man would brashly proceed, using more testosterone than brains.
I know I’d probably refrain now from many of the dunderheaded things I did years ago, but then again, I still do things many might call dunderheaded.
One drawback about restraint in youthful years: you won’t have as many good stories should you make it to your later years.
If you are young and healthy you could also stay home and help your neighbors and community who might need it. Volunteer at a local hospital, school, emergency service, the Red Cross, or just help those around you that are affected,
997
@Mike Jacobs I think these young people are being asked to work remotely, not being given time off. But yes, once their daily work is done they could pitch in. Lots of returning University kids in our neighborhood and our friends are asking if there are any jobs they can do while they are home
23
@Mike Jacobs
Nope its better to travel around and possible infect many, many, people. Isn't that what young people get to do with impunity.
26
@Mike Jacobs good for them! lot of businesses are suffering. You help the rideshare driver, the restaurant owners, the hotel or whatever.
6
I understand the emotional appeal of these deals to heedless youth, regardless of the risk they pose to others- but the irony for someone like Mr. DeSimone is that if he has a healthy cigarette habit, as he implies, he could be putting at risk older folks who have followed his path of consumption- and may well be setting himself up for a poor outcome in a future epidemic that targets respiratory function.
26
@artikhan
I was thinking the same thing, being an apparent heavy smoker a $50.00 cigarette tab is a pretty sizable smoking habit. But that puts him at a higher risk of getting Covid-19 smokers immune systems. It's a proven fact that the effects of tobacco smoke on the immune system include greater susceptibility to infections such as pneumonia and influenza. more severe and longer-lasting illnesses.
Maybe he should rethink cheap travel, and think about quitting smoking.
5
How is this not the lead:
“Traveling during the pandemic flies in the face of expert advice and government advisories. Travelers who are infected, even if they are not showing symptoms, may transport and spread the virus to a new location, or contaminate an airplane, cab or Airbnb. While they may be healthy enough to survive the virus, they could be putting others at risk.
They could also get infected during their travels, and have to be hospitalized during a trip, or get quarantined somewhere far from home.”
Highlighting the joys of cheap travel is irresponsible during this global pandemic. Sure, there’s a story here about people doing it anyway. But please don’t glorify the idea when you state in the same article that expert advice says it is not wise.
This is from a flight attendant for a major domestic airline who is very concerned about her job ... but still doesn’t want people to fly right now.
454
@Makenzie G
Thank you! Much regards for highlighting this.The article seems to be planting a bad idea the way it is framed in the lead.
And I send good vibes your way during this doubly anxious time for you. Hope that your job stays with you and the corona virus treats you kindly.
30
@Makenzie G
Nobody cares about flu like symptoms
@John Brown
As the husband and father of physicians on the front lines, believe me, you are so wrong.
12
This is an incredibly selfish and disappointing choice for members of my generation to be making. Not only are they putting themselves at risk, but they're endangering their loved ones, the entire nation's population of elderly and/or immunocompromised people, and anybody with whom they come into contact on their trips (including workers and waitstaff, who may not have a choice about whether or not to come to work).
Those of us who are young, physically healthy, and economically privileged enough to be able to take time off and pay for a vacation right now need to be willing to assume some responsibility for the health of our communities, even if we ourselves aren't likely to fall gravely ill.
141
@Anna
Being young is no guarantee that you won't get Covid-19, or die from it. I believe that it's a mistake for young people to believe that youth is some sort of protection against this virus, or any virus for that matter, it isn't.
14
@James Yes, as clearly illustrated in today's article about the nurse and doctor in China, both 29 years old. Even the one who survived had a very painful time of it, and almost didn't make it.
7
Not to sound like a boomer curmudgeon, I can understand why these younger folk want a cheap ride to paradise, but they’re forgetting the underlying serpent of contagion that they can spread to the oldsters around them. For example, my 30 year old nephew flew to Hawaii via Seattle and may be safe himself, but on his return he could give the virus to my brother who could give it to my father in a nursing home. Follow all precautions and protocol, but the life you save may not be your own but those you love.
76
@Ichabod Aikem That is just it, they love themselves more than anyone else.
13