What dictators do.
Trump isn’t telling us anything about anything.
He is not a president,
He’s a criminal boss running a mob ring from the White House.
1
Trump does not care what happens to the women under Taliban rule. Nor does he care about the existing Afghan government. If he did, they would have been included on the overall process. This is a typical US political cluster trying to put lipstick on a pig. Disgraceful.
Trumpy agreed to leave the country to the Taliban.
As long as the people behind the people who committed 9/11 know more about the deal than any Americans. Thats the main thing, right Donald. Unmatched wisdom again? This is not going to work out any better than the Kim Jong un ones. The spoilt brat toddler millionaire is utterly naive. Next he will be getting his hair braided in Bali... wait a minute!
This is Trump’s Nobel Peace prize application - nothing more nothing less.
We elect flag hugging draft dodgers who make deals with the enemy not to shoot us in the back as we leave... Soooooo much winning, I can barely stand it.
Liz Cheney has an opinion on this? Who cares what she thinks or says since her father and his band of war criminal Neo-cons totally destroyed and destabilized the middle east, while they lined their own pockets many times over......that Liz Cheney who pretends to be from Wyoming so she can continue her father's looting and destructive work? The Cheneys are despicable people who judging by their work are incredibly anti-American and deserve our scorn publicly and btw get rid of her next election, she has nothing to offer the good people of Wyoming and it is a waste of precious public tax dollars to pay her.
4
If you don't think that Trump will draw down US troops and victoriously declare "peace is at hand" AND following the US election the Taliban overrun Afghanistan again, you are just another Trump chump.
2
My guess is that Trump will be making cash payments to the taliban to help them form a government once they take over the current one. i don't even care anymore, the people that run the current Afghanistan gov are corrupt pigs that thwarted any chance of stabilising that country with their constant thievery of american dollars.
This is the worst deal made by a politician of the last 100 years. Embarrassment palooza. Who made this deal??? Deal points: Release all taliban prisoners in exchange for America being sent with tail between its legs. Embarrassing for everything this country stands for. I’m sick from it.
1
Trump has cowardly sold America out.
He is the biggest fraud and coward world has ever seen. He is a classic bully, who will power over weak, but becomes the weak in front of real power.
Trump belongs in jail.. and I hope we find a way to put him in jail for his crimes.. so no one dare to repeat them again.
1
Unless your point is that this is precedent-setting, this is just opportunistic Trump-bashing...
And you, NYT, will drive the center back toward Trump as effectively as you did in 2016...
Am (already) back there...
You all dumped the socialist rabbit in the race, but not the redistributionist plank in the platform...
The STEM-enabled growth that should be sustaining our economy – you ditched that, thinking everything could be negotiated or litigated...
Well, how're those planes, diesel engines, windmills, and New Orleans hotel designed by lawyers – how are they all doing???
And that unsubsidized Bronze Obama care and those extortionate Medicare up-charges???
PS
Trump should invoke emergency powers to put the clinical diagnostics industry on a wartime footing – with the intent of driving down unit costs and TAT by factors of 10-100X…
Through the peacetime that would follow...
For clarity, through STEM innovation – not financial scheming…
Be interesting to see how Bernie and bros would react to that…
"Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shàme on me".
I predict that once the US forces leave, the Taliban will gain control of the government, women will be hidden under burkas and forced to remain at home, girls will no longer be allowed to go to school and the brutal, extreme form of Islam will be back complete with stoning and beheadings.
3
The NYT suddenly cares that some parts of Trump's agreement are secret but was willing to accept Obama's secret JAPOC protocols. Why the difference?
1
We will know the fine points of the taliban deal when a more awful group put Taliban heads on pikes and expose the documents to the world.
Or maybe Assange will be freed.
Trumpsparency?
Everything is a con.
1
You are the New York Times, you know better than most of the duplicitous, conniving, lying character of Trump.
When you are editorializing on Trump, why not just borrow a line from Reagan, “… there you go again…”
Wait. A. Minute.
You’re saying The Human Stain is lying, being deceitful and withholding keyningormation as a public servant - from the publuc!
This is terrible...when did he start doing this. First I’ve heard ;-)
Peace in Afghanistan is unlikely...ever. The fact that there are two presidents and the Afghans seem to accept said fact with equanimity should make clear the futility of American efforts to sell the rule of law to them. The lives and treasures of first the Soviets and then the Americans were squandered and Afghanistan remains precisely what is was prior to Soviet’s efforts: tribal, feudal and disinterested in change. What infuriates me is that the occupier of the Oval Office is on the make again. His eyes are on November and thus giving the Taliban carte blanche makes perfect sense to him. He’ s counting on us to raise hell for a news cycle or two and then leave behind an 18 year war.
Nothing is mentioned now of the horrors -- literally horrors -- that the Taliban inflicted on girls and women during their earlier reign. Girls as young as six and eight years old taken as "wives" by much older, cruel men who had little harems of girls and women. Women buried to their necks and publicly stoned to death in stadiums for being with a man outside of marriage. Zero education for girls or women. Zero opportunity to be self-supporting or independent in any way, consigned to live their entire lives as nothing but abused beasts of burden.
What incentive does Taliban have to keep any agreements (which we don't even know what they are, since they are hidden from us)? Have they suddenly become nice guys, woke men? Millions of Americans opposed the US going into Afghanistan, knowing from our history that we would unleash the hell of endless war on that country, and waste thousands of American lives. But we went in, and many individual soldiers tried to make a positive difference, and for a time, as long as our presence was maintained, conditions for women improved -- not radically, but significantly.
What about those women and girls now, if we turn our back and hand them back to the Taliban. How do they fit into our sick president's secret deal? Here's how:
They'll be cleaning toilets in a Trump Tower in Kabul when they're ten, if they're lucky.
Trump sucking up to Taliban and MBS and Putin tells us all we need to know about what is likely in that deal.
41
Russia wants us out too, what a coincidence? First, Pompeo is a bully at heart, indignant righteousness as during the Benghazi hearings demanding every document, every email as public rights. Enter doormat sycophant second, literally selling out our national security and foreign diplomacy to suite the political goals of Trump, turning his back on the real public servants while giving cover to Giuliani and his minions, not willing to provide any documents, but will attack whistle-blowers who expose corruption, "sounds like treason to me Mike". Which has lead to this disastrous secret agreement with the Taliban without the participation by the people most effected by it, and whom we've invested blood and treasure to secure. To short cut a real peace agreement, because we lack the will, the diplomats, the integrity to be honest, and the lack of decency to honor the commitment it will take to keep the peace. To further weaken our influence for human rights, our strategic military and trade standing; all to provide a quick exit to please Putin. This is now a rush before a real president returns to restore some sanity in government, to promote our interest, not Russia's. The GOP have abandoned their responsibility to make decisions based on facts, learn from history, or show any promise for solving the concerns of tomorrow. Vote them all out, unless they know what makes America great!
1
The editorial is too silly to be disingenuous. No matter what the agreement and codicils say, there is no way to enforce Taliban agreement except by restarting the war. So there will be no enforcement. The Afghan government will be gone within a year. of withdrawal of American aircover. This is obvious to everyone. The Afghan pols are packing their bags and checking their Swiss accounts. Afghan young women are just waiting with dread.
Besides "death and taxes" as the 'surest things in life'....we can add any deal that Trump makes This secret one is just one more way to prune his feathers for the upcoming election. He does not give a care for the US Military or for the Taliban or for Afghanistan people. They are not the blond blue eyed good Christians who attend his rallies.
This is just another trump politically manipulated maneuver to look good with no substance... just like north korea and all the other non-things he's done to promote his interests and politics with no benefit to America, it's position or it's people.
It's simply just another trump scam.
Trump is trying to create a pretty political package when this is just a cut and run and good luck Afghanistan. What he should have done was be honest, and cut and run and good luck Afghanistan. I guess that wouldn't have looked good to the Nobel people but he never has had a chance on a Peace Prize. Americans would scream such bloody murder the committee couldn't ignore it. Just be honest for once, Trump.
8
Gee. Could this mean that the US might just up and leave like the Russians in the 80's and (gasp!) the US in Viet Nam in the 60's? Why am I neither shocked nor surprised by the idea of the US giving up on an unwinnable war? I think it's for the best, however lacking in honor for us or compassion for the local population left behind. Hopefully, Trump will do the right thing for those who put their lives on the line to support the US mission and allow these brave Afghanies to emigrate to the US, but, with their skin color and religious affiliations, I cannot be anything but skeptical.
1
We can be sure Trump's agreement with the Taliban benefitted mostly the Taliban. The Afghan government was not part of the process - it didn't count and the agreement is being kept secret.
Trump has a record: his bromance with Putin produced good results for Putin but none for the USA. We saw Trump's behavior damage relations with our Allies and the reputation of the USA abroad. We know Trump's bromance with Kim Jong Un took the pressure to denuclearize off Kim but there were no benefits for the USA. We know the GOP's love affair with Trump put them in power and trashed the independence of the Judiciary and made a mockery of impeachment as well as damaging the Constitutional separation of powers while the benefits to US citizens mostly went to the 1%.
Americans have got used to the lies.
This agreement is yet another 'let the conquer-save-face' piece of paper. Such terms extend back to Alexander and Akbar. Two of the greatest military minds who ever lived learned not to screw with the Pashtun. Most likely, a thousand years from now, another rebuked superpower will turn tail. As written the NYT Opinion piece of March 31, 2004, Milt Bearden ends his recounting of Alexander's travails with;
It will be a tough and unrewarding slog. Like most of the great confrontations launched by outsiders in Waziristan over the last 2,000 years, this one will probably end in ambiguity. There have already been claims of "mission accomplished" by the Pakistani army and the Frontier Corps — after all, they lost up to 60 dead — but there will likely be nothing concrete to point to, aside from claims of having destroyed a militant sanctuary. The much-ballyhooed "high-value targets" we and our Pakistani allies expected to kill or capture will probably remain unknown and unresolved, and the American Operation "Mountain Storm" across zero line in Afghanistan will probably wind down with an equal lack of clarity. Already there seems to be a sense of relief that everyone will quietly go back to fishing on their sides of the lake.
That's the way it's always been in those rugged hills.
1
We are doing what should have happened a long time ago. We've supplied the Afgans with all the weapons they need to defend against the Taliban. We'e trained them for 18 years. If they want freedom they have the tools and training to fight. The question is do they have the will. Our problem is we have never defined how we intended to win. If you asked the generals today what they would do if they were told to win, all you would get back would be blank stares. "Were we suppose to do that?" First and foremost you have to kill he enemy. But with the Taliban that means killing a whole lot of people they control. We were willing when we bombed Tokyo and created a firestorm that killed 100,000 people. We were willing when we dropped the two big ones on Japan that killed up to 226,000. We were willing to kill when we bombed Dresden and killed as many as 26,000. In Afghanistan, a Marine captain was disciplined when he told a sniper to shoot the engine on a tractor carrying a wounded bomb maker to safety. No one was killed and the only injury that occurred was to the engine. You cannot win a war with that kind of rules of engagement. And, we didn't. So whatever we signed to get us out of that war, is ok. The Afghanistan have had a taste of freedom from religious fanatics. Now we will see if it means enough to them to fight for it themselves.
Trump is doing what should have happened a long time ago. We've supplied the Afgans all the weapons they need to defend against the Taliban. We'e trained for 18 years their army. If they want freedom they have the tools and training to fight. The question is do they have the will. Our problem is we have never deified how weey intended to win. If you asked the generals today what they would do if they were told to win, all you would get back would be blank stares. "Were we suppose to do that?" First and foremost you have to kill he enemy. But with the Taliban that means killing a whole lot of people they control. We were willing when we bombed Tokyo and created a fore storm that killed 100,000 people. We were willing when we dropped the two big ones on Japan that killed up to 226,000. We were willing to kill when we bombed Dresden and killed as many as 26,000. In Afghanistan, a Marine captain was disciplined when he told a sniper to shoot the engine on a tractor carrying a wounded bomb maker to safety. No one was killed and the only injury that occurred was to the engine. You cannot win a war with that kind of rules of engagement. And, we didn't. So whatever Trump signed to get us out of that war, is ok. The Afghanistan have had a taste of freedom from religious fanatics. Now we will see if it means enough to them to fight for it themselves.
The Taliban would have to be the most inept negotiators in the world if they couldn't extract from us a deal that gives them a clear path to control throughout the country. We need to call a spade a spade and, unfortunate as it is, leave our "friends" in Afghanistan to their fate. If we couldn't get it done in 19 years we aren't going to get it done in 19 more. This is the equivalent of the U.S. departure from Saigon after 3+ years of additional deaths secured by the crack negotiating team of Kissinger and Nixon. Sure glad we spent 1969-1970 negotiating the shape of that table in Paris.
1
How the people who are supposedly being served by this President can expect his admin to do anything with the appropriate level of planning, focus on American values and results as being the best for the American people, particularly their security, is beyond me. DT and his crew have taken a wrecking ball to our way of life, our national security and our Democracy. His enablers do not care what the American people think. At all. This cannot be the new normal. VOTE
1
Let’s get out of all our foreign disasters, these are all bipartisan created, either by democratic or republican administrations. Get out, what did it bring us, death of our youth serving and getting therm maimed for life.
What the hell are we doing in civil war places like Somalia anyway.
I’d like to hear from our progressive sisters and brothers how to get out and stop blaming Trump for trying.
"Americans know from bitter experience that exiting a long and futile war is messy and painful, and they are entitled to know how their government intends to do it."
And Americans know from bitter experience that Trump and his minions will say any damn thing to get out of an awkward moment, then deny they ever said it when the truth inevitably comes to light.
This is Trump turning his back on his allies, his commitments, and his own soldiers in the field.
This is Trump's Generals, and his party, saying they're fine with it.
2
This is what happens when we elect (or the Electoral College selects) an arrogant know-it-all as POTUS. I have no doubt that Trump does want to remove American armed forces from a conflict we have not been winning since W arrogantly declared war on Iraq and left troops languishing in a tribal morass that was of no strategic value to America. Will Trump be able to do what his predecessors could not? Probably not. But at least attempting to declare victory and remove troops regardless of secret agreements with the Taliban, is definitely the right direction. Bush and Obama could not end our military involvement there. If Trump does, by whatever means, he deserves credit for that accomplishment. Time will tell whether this will be one piece of braggadocio that Trump will actually carry out.that Trump will actually
Will any of the 500 (and counting) commenters below please come forward with their suggestions for what should be the course of action for the US in Afghanistan? I'm all in favor of criticizing Trump whenever he deserves it (daily, hourly), and I hate to see him get credit for anything, but I am in favor of his goal of getting us out of there. No need to declare victory before leaving, and no need to try to distance ourselves from whatever happens next. I have not seen any clear explanation of the US interest in maintaining our military presence there (and I deliberately separate the US interest from the interest of the military/industrial complex).
Knowing Trump, one of the secret annexes surely insures that a Trump Tower and Golf Club will be named somewhere in the 9% of Afghanistan that the Taliban control.
1
By now, the much better understood "trumpian" art of the deal: B&F
(bankruptcy & flight)
1
No guarantee of women's rights??? The Afghan government wasn't involved in the negotiation??? Nor requirement for the Taliban to recognize the elected government of Afghanistan???
Donald Trump is an embarrassment of the highest order.
4
We know more than enough. Wikipedia states, "During the war in Afghanistan (2001–present), over 31,000 civilian deaths due to war-related violence have been documented;[1][2] 29,900 civilians have been wounded.[2]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan_(2001-present)
The U.S. government is evil and illegitimate. Even before its Afghanistan War, it has inflicted on humanity its very violent record of mayhem such as children burned in its Tokyo fire-bombings. https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/07/asia/japan-tokyo-fire-raids-operation-meetinghouse-intl-hnk/index.html
Supporters of the U.S. government (including Editorial Board members) are partisans of extreme evil; ending its Afghanistan War will not end its evil.
knowing trump, he wants land for a resort.
Follow the weapon sales.
Regarding the secret written annexes with the Taliban —
“Perfect call” Trump isn’t even trusted by his own party.
1
"There’s no point in hiding them from the Taliban, because they have the annexes."
Like the secret bombing of Cambodia by Trump's model undemocratic President, Nixon, to keep the facts away from the American people.
The Cambodians obviously knew that they were being bombed,
2
If Trump ever was factually correct on anything I would have to go to the Emergency Room for my massive heart attack. I never pay attention to him any more. My time is too short for liars.
1
Glad to see a Cheney shared her wisdom.
Women, peace terms, caged kids...same difference. If the loser can hush them to save face, he will, and it'll take us far too long before we know the full truth.
Our 45th president must make every effort to repeal and reverse his and his vile GOP's policies. Merely beating the loser without actual change is empty symptom-curing.
Anything. We’re not told anything about El Trumpo’s deal with the Taliban.
But I bet that we can ask the Kurds and get a pretty good idea.
1
All trump wants is the Nobel Peace Prize, to insure another term, God forbid. His supreme leader, Putin, will be extremely pleased!
1
Looks like there will be lots more Afganistans if Biden is elected with his idea that America must restore world order.
This is clearly Trump pandering for the Nobel Peace Prize.
Like everything Trump does, the agreement with the Taliban was a stunt--a campaign stunt to boot. It is the epitome of "cut and run." The Taliban arrangement will blow up, and Trump will blame the press (including The Times for this editorial) the Democrats, and Obama.
Trump's foreign policy is a ridiculous disaster. We have a dangerous stupid huckster in the White House. If we don't defeat him in November, he will drag us down completely.
2
Trump and all republicans are unfit to serve Americans.
It must involve money. This is all about Trump's reelection. See, I told you supporters that I would build a wall to keep those dark skinned people out and that I would get us out of Afghanistan. Now, we see that the virus thing has blown up in Trump's face. Oh, we will sabotage the Democratic Convention, the debates, and the primaries by not making testing available. This will all go away. Horrible, horrible people.
1
When you never tell the truth, another lie doesn't seem like a big deal to you.
Gee, the Trump administration LYING to the American public - imagine that!
The Times' editorial board doth complain in vain. With the Trumpublicans in power, anything goes. Laws do not apply to them. Regulations and traditions do not constrain them nor guide them. They can do whatever the hell they want, including declaring war over whenever they want.
But if I were a member of the Afghan government, I'd be packing my belongings and preparing to make my exit from Afghanistan. This will end just like the Vietnam war did. As usual, after propping up a weak ally becomes too expensive, America simply cuts and runs.
2
I support the negotiations toward US military withdrawal from Afghanistan.
But we should not forget what Taliban dominance will mean for the people of Afghanistan:
No education for girls, child marriage, and large families.
Afghanistan has about the highest fertility rate in the world, and is projected to have more than 80 million people by 2050. This is unsustainable, and will generate millions more refugees.
2
Trump’s public statements consistently deploy qualifications such as , “I‘m hearing”, “people are saying”, “people are telling me,” “I’ve heard people saying that,” etc. These are verbal tic that enable him to reduce his responsibility for the statements and to acquire some immunity from their. consequences. These phrases are for public and private consumption; I believe that they serve to sooth his conscience - believe it or not!- because, though he is aware of lying, the lie is feels less egregious if he is not asserting it outright; rather, attributing it to some “source”.
This all has an insidious effect. No one is unaware of the by the president’s deceit, even if they deny it consciously. The nation’s leader is effectively endorsing sleazy conduct and setting an example for everyone - children, adolescents, and adults- of what is acceptable. Trump has inflated the value of the currency of public discourse and lowered the standards of honesty to which we hold ourselves.
I wonder if we’ll ever learn a lesson from these meaningless wars, and I mean all of them from the end of WWII until today. Don’t do it if you can’t justify it without lying and distorting, don’t do it if you can’t define what winning would look like, and if you do start a war devote sufficient resources to accomplish your goals. If we did anything at all based on the premise that the Taliban had harbored extreme terrorists, we could have and should have declared the end of our involvement in Afghanistan in late 2001, after the Taliban were driven out. We could have and should have let Pakistan know that providing safe harbor and a germinal layer for the Taliban would have extreme consequences (economic if not military), and we could have provided some degree of economic support and military assistance to the new government. Instead we tried to force another country into our mold, and once again after thousands of people are killed, including our own, and false hopes raised in Afghanistan (and amongst the Kurds in Iraq), we high-tail it out leaving a smoking hole and the situation either the same or worse. We haven’t lost a war; instead, as we always do, we ran out of gas. Don’t start a journey if you don’t know why you’re doing it and where you’re headed.
2
Any agreement must include our alliance friends because they too will bear the burden when this blows up and will be needed to impose economic and diplomatic sanctions if and when they violate the agreement. That means they and tyhe American public need to understand the whole sensze of the agreement and where the "lines in the sand" might be drawn if at all.
1
I think that what should bother everyone here is that the United States of America is purporting to make a deal with a non-state actor that has no claims to sovereignty or legitimacy. Basically it is a deal negotiated with a theocratic terrorist entity. I thought that we did not negotiate with terrorists. What next? A peace deal with Boko Haram?
2
Trump needs a campaign taking point, pure and simple. We already know he abandoned the Syrian Kurds with no forethought or compunction. He separated families at our southern border whose only 'crime' was seeking asylum, a right protected under US and international law. He didn't even care about a thousand or more Americans trapped on a cruise ship full of contagion. Who really believes he cares anything about innocent Afghan men, women, and children.
Once Trump learned we couldn't take their mineral wealth, getting out of Afghanistan by any means possible was his only goal. Keeping the annexes secret is par for the course for our foremost prevaricator. Administration lap dogs are aplenty to facilitate the dirty deed.
2
I guess there’s something in for him. (How cynical! I wonder why?)
Ah, the Kabul Trump Tower.
2
What? You don’t believe the agreement is “perfect”?
3
I have great respect for NYT reporting...but come on...really...Trump not telling us everything...I will stop there...of course, this is a deal...you know the DEAL...we declare victory on media sites, while losing the country we were supposed to be liberating.. remember those helicopters departing Vietnam....
2
We have no more right to invade, occupy and destroy other (always smaller and weaker) nations who have done us no harm, than they do to invade, occupy and destroy Utah.
*Re-instate the draft - for every income group. No more Bone Spurs. Those with disabilities can provide administrative support. When war-lovin' pols' kids are put in harm's way, they'll be way more interested in diplomacy and far less willing to beat the drums of "war".
*Prosecute and jail Chickenhawk politicians (I'm talking about you, Bush) who cook the books to railroad us into idiotic, lethal, costly military actions.
*Slash our military spending and mandate that it only be used in direct defense of our country.
If we stop invading them we can avoid being forced out, tail between our legs, under the guise of "treaties" that we hope will save face.
1
For the Taliban, talk is cheap and agreements sign of weakness. Go figure!
2
It’s time we leave.
1
The government of Afghanistan had 19 years to win their war! No more on the American dime. Figure it out or get yourselves some running shoes! Not our problem anymore grifters!
1
Secret Treaties? Hidden agreement written in invisible ink? Is this “A Scandal in Bohemia?” Who is Irene Adler in this Trumpian psychodrama?
That is the problem with Trump. He is such a pathological liar, like the boy that cried wolf, if he ever told the truth by accident nobody would believe him.
In this case, just looks like another deal to make himself look good and America second.
5
If Americans wanted Honesty, Truthfulness and Transparecy in our government we would never have elected Donald J. Trump to be POTUS.
2
Trump lied again? And his minions did not care? Surprised?
2
I hear the Taliban is already wary of the "Deal". The Kurds sent them a memo.
2
Trump's art of the deal has always been about giving everything to the other party, offering a victory on a golden plate. In the end it's all about losing while pretending he is winning. But when the president is a loser, everybody loses... not only him.
1
He telegraphed his intent to withdraw, thereby ceding a strategic position AGAIN. He demanded nothing for this “agreement.” He has no idea what kind of people he is “negotiating “ with. He puts us all in a position of weakness.
Casting aside our casualties, including thousands of veterans alive and maimed in Afghan battles and IED attacks, he cuts and runs based on his stupid campaign promise and the upcoming election. Citizens need to wonder why he didn’t just do this three years ago.
So it’s another egregious mistake of judgement, values, and honor. The Taliban respect these tenets of leadership, but our butthead in chief does not. So humiliating!
Just another Trump Ripoff!
1
Honesty, integrity and face card up engagement with the American people? Annexes be dammed, a card con front and center!
This deceitful debasement of honest broker smears all whom it touches.
Americans and Service people the most deserve a clean bill of truth, nothing less! For shame Trump!
2
Create a disaster, cut and run. America’s gift that keeps on giving since 1945. But, hey who can argue with the profits raked in by the MIC? Who are we at war with? Pass the Victory Gin.
Another wishy-washy editorial. It is obvious why the republicans are withholding parts of the agreement from the American people. They are, once again, deserting an ally on the battle field.
Call a spade a spade. How are you ever going to defeat the lying republicans by giving them a little cover.
Shame on you.
1
Trump is never telling everything.
1
2 trillion.
Country of 38 million.
Bottom 4% in GDP per capita. Not even two dollars per day.
If half the money had been spent wisely, that would be twenty six thousand per Afghani. Or what the average person in that country earns in half a century.
This wasn't Trump's fault, it's our longest war. But we can thank GWB, the GOP, and the media that was beating the drums of war after 9/11.
Speaking of secrecy, who was responsible for 9/11? Last I read, the conclusion of the federal investigation couldn't be divulged to the public because "national security."
This is another example of the Trump Administration either lying or withholding information from the public. Obviously, this is being done because Trump does not want adverse information about Afghanistan to be released to the public before the election.
Vietnam was the last example where we entered into an agreement with our then enemy to withdraw from that country. Once we were out, it was just a matter of time before South Vietnam was overrun and subjugated. It appears likely that this will happen in Afghanistan as well.
Our problem is that we spend our youth's blood and the country's treasure on propping up governments that have insufficient legitimacy with their own people. Our efforts to provide a democratic government to people who have no real wish to live under such a government always prove futile. Thus it is with Afghanistan.
It is very sad that this agreement presages a complete takeover by the Taliban in the future. All promises will be broken once the Taliban get their imprisoned fighters back and the last American leaves. The remaining population will become the victims of a new Taliban theocracy.
2
Catch-22. You can't enforce anything in Afghanistan without a continued US presence. We can't end the war because US troops are required to enforce the peace. Therefore, the war hasn't really ended, has it? That's why we call Afghanistan a never ending war.
A full troop withdrawal is nothing short of surrender. Plain and simple. Leave the mess for Afghanistan to sort out. That's the President's strategy. He needs to claim victory before election. Politics take precedent.
Unfortunately for the rest of us, the fallout is going to be bad. Remember Vietnam? That's why the President is waiting until after election day to withdraw the troops. You just wait. Iraq torture chambers are going to look down right cozy. Our allies are going to get slaughtered.
And yes, the Taliban will help organize terrorist strikes against US and US-related targets. They are still fighting a war with US installed opposition government whether US troops are there or not. Friend of my enemy sort of thing.
We can be honest. The entire deal is made in bad faith. The question is how soon will Trump's decision come back to haunt us.
The Trump Administration wanted the headlines of a peace accord, period. It is to be a cornerstone of his re-election bid. (The TV ads are already playing).
The details are for fools, in the calculations of this bunch in the White House. When someone (Pompeo being only the latest) assert that it is time "to turn the page," what they really are conveying something quite sinister: never mind, folks, move along, trust us."
This peace accord is nothing more than the latest Trump lie.
A deal with the Taliban without local government being at the table! How Trumpian to pursue a deal with the devil so he can cut and run. Most of us remember how the Taliban treated women. And back we go ... but he stopped the war. A joke.
An 18 year war of empire building. Countless dead. A Republican administration that actually tried to stop a war? Precious. If I start complaining about undotted I's and uncrossed T's, people will continue to die. Just leave the darn country.
1
Obviously this 'deal' belongs in the scrap heap along with his 'deal' with N Korea, China ... Obviously he just has to appear to be doing something to satisfy his 35% base. But it's deeper than that because his lies are beginning to get in each other's way. The repubs know it's all nonsense but they have invested whatever self respect they had during their primaries 3+ years ago when crowds cheering his lies and hatred made them take a knee even as revelations of his treatment of women, a war hero. the disabled reporter, etc showed us what a coward / bully he is. Sadly, they're even worse.
Trump is a lousy politician.
He is not interested in American interests. America did not keep him afloat during the 2008-2009 Financial Crisis, Russia did.
He is under the delusion that the Democratic leaders he thoughtlessly trashed will work with him to proper up an economy that he claims has never been better.
He thinks the oil producers need a bailout.
Well, economies ebb and flow based in part on the leadership they have at the time.
When a mad Emperor Caligula imposes double digit tariffs on the global goods and retaliatory tariffs result, the economy will suffer.
When trillion dollar deficits and negative real interest rates create enormous stimulus to sustain the economy, adding more stimulus to create the illusion of prosperity is madness.
Trump is the economy's coronavirus. He is contagious and lethal to sound economic policies.
When America's sovereign elections are under attack by Russia, the GOP Senate allows the US President to subvert the Constitution and national security, the Democratic House cannot aide and abet the whims of Emperor Caligula to make cash payments to Americans prior to an election while he claims the economy has never been better.
Let him acknowledge his own economic policies have so cratered the economy that such cash payments are necessary to keep it on life support.
Let him explain with clarity to Congress that the removal of US troops from the border of Russia is in the interest of NATO or Russia.
Afghanistan -- still the graveyard of empires.
2
Just another Trump real estate deal. Everyone thinks they have a good deal, but when the rubber hits the road, no one is happy. Except maybe the terrorist group, the Taliban. Way to go Mr. president.
We must have honesty from this corrupt administration. There is already buckets of lies and deceit. How can we exist without trust in our government.
Regardless of any apparent Taliban adherence to terms while US troops are still in country, do you think it will take them as long as it took the North Vietnamese to take over South Vietnam to resume control of the country from a weak, corrupt government and incompetent, possibly disloyal, military?
This just another sham re-election ploy. Good luck, with this Trump.
It's like "Mission Accomplished" all over again!
1
This is how the U.S. defeat will play out. The Taliban will disregard even the vaguest of commitments, and will chase and harass and attack our soldier at every step of the process. Trump will deny that it is so. And the world (Minus the Fox news crowd) will chalk up another "stupid deal" from Clueless Leader. Does this need to end? Of course. Have the Taliban earned the right to humiliate the U.S.? No matter - they know Trump barely cares about appearances. It didn't have to be this way at the beginning or at the end. We could have finished this in 2003 instead of traipsing off to chase made up WMD.
1
"The Talliban will disregard even the vaguest commitments"... That's a great description of Trump's business practices! Yet another example of Trump's resonance with criminal thugs, crooked politicians, and bullies, not to mention men who mistreat women.
2
Perhaps, and I think it's important that the NYT exposes these sort of dealings. It's our right to know.
It's a shame the same zeal wasn't applied to Obama who waged a secret war on Afghanistan with more deaths by drones to innocent civilians than any by Bush in an all out war.
Sure Obama kept us out of a public war, but secretly he waged. btw, I voted for him twice. But fair is fair. We're either for transparency or we're not.
1
Can't you leave this man alone for one minute. Must you rip apart everything he does.
1
Looks like Afghanistan will retain its reputation for driving out in ignomy every invader throughout History.
1
“Cheap political manipulation“ —
That’s Trump’s middle name.
Let’s quickly call him on this, bipartisan-ly.
1
My guess is that Trump's secret annexes contain a letter of intent for the Trump Organization to partner with the Taliban to build a condo/golf course/resort development in Tora Bora.
1
Sec Pompeo's worldview doesn't differ much from the Taliban's. Both are fundamentalists who pine for theocracy, not democracy. Both subscribe to a literal biblical interpretation. Both strive to protect a misogynist patriarchy in their country.
3
This information is being withheld by direct order of our monarch in chief. It will be released, if at all, in a heavily massaged and manipulated format, only to aid Donald Trump in his quest for re-election. Mr. Trump has no care or concerns for the services or sacrifices our military has given over the years in Afghanistan or for the long-term interests of America in this region. This is simply another business transaction for Mr. Trump to be concluded so that he can say ""I am the one that got this deal done"". And his lackeys in his administration are so happy to help him take this approach.
You mean we can no longer accept the "alternative facts?"
1
This is not someone who has ever negotiated. He bullies, threatens, and dodges taxes and he can barely keep a golf course afloat.
Money launders don't negotiate. Negotiations implies that he cares about the safety of women or the safety of USA allies.
I'm sure the Taliban just offered him rights to a condo or a golf course and a photo op for a "treaty signing."
1
Trump is truly the "King of the Deal". Look at all the great, truly "winning" deals Trump has negotiated:
Trump negotiated the US right out of the Paris Climate Accord.
Trump negotiated the US out of the "terrible Iran Nuclear Deal".
Trump negotiated the US out of "the most terrible trade deal ever, NAFTA".
Trump negotiated the US out of the trap of the TPP.
Trump negotiated the Middle East Peace Agreement, well, Jared helped. He "read 25 books!" -- and that made all the difference, I'm sure. But still Trump was the real push behind all these great deals.
It sure is easy to negotiate and be "King of the Deal" when you only negotiate with one side... or just do whatever you want. I'm sure the Afghanistan mess deserved a negotiated withdrawl years ago, and the thousands of soldiers and TRILLIONS of dollars spent "keeping American safer" could have done a lot to make this nation stronger spent somewhere else, but Trump will make this deal work too - by declaring "we're done" and pulling out. Let's ask the Kurds how well that works...
I'm sad for our country. I'm sad that we wasted so many lives and so much treasure, and I'm sad that one person can destroy decades of the 'full faith and credit of the United States' with a few broken "deals", and unilateral stupidity. Trump is by far the worst president ever, and I pray that 'ever' is forever, and not 'so far'.
Once you realize all Trump cares about is being able to claim victory in getting out of Afghanistan so he can do it before the election, it’s no wonder he doesn’t want anyone to know what he’s giving away. Despite his ghost-written “Art of the Deal” claims, he’s a terrible negotiator. The Taliban know it for sure.
Afghanistan is an American failure. We thought we would "cowboy" our democratic way of life onto a people who, frankly, don't care about our way of life and don't want it. Sadly, if you ask your neighbors, most were all for going to war during the Bush years. Made the U.S. look tough. It also made the military contractors incredibly wealthy. Otherwise, an utter, total failure.
The saddest irony of all? Cadet Bone-spur, a guy who has never really had skin-in-the-game, will crow and take credit for "ending the war."
1
This is an impeachable offense, one more crime that Trump may be prosecuted some day.
Trump has committed many crimes. It was smart for Pelosi to only go after a couple crimes of this bad president. This way he cannot claim double jeopardy.
The rogue Supreme Court and Senate can only go that far protecting this incompetent from jail. Trump's criminality will catch up with him and one day he will face what is coming to him. Mark my words Trump will face justice one day and will do time behind the wall.
1
He probably gave away the store. He is desperate for a "win".
Stop yapping about Trump in the comments. Is he trying to use this "peace agreement" to score a political "win"? No doubt. Bottom line, US needs to get out and I don't care what politician makes it happen. Leave...now. No treaties, no contracts. No handshakes or promises that the Taliban has no intention of keeping or useless meetings that don't involve all parties...this includes the Taliban. Does anyone actually believe you can get a couple of members of the Taliban into a room to speak on behalf of and control all members of the Taliban? It's this kind of ignorance that constantly sets up the US for failure. Stop tap dancing around the issue and start leveling with the American people. We're leaving and God forbid we have to come back because if we do, as we've all seen, ain't nobody gonna like it. And for the record, I don't care about Trump...didn't vote for him last time and have no intentions on voting for him this time.
2
Big picture deduction from this deal with the Taliban is simple, Afghanistan is an illusion, as is it's corrupt government. Afghanistan has never been totally controlled by a foreign or domestic power since Alexander the Great who lost more troops to terrain and weather there than to the Bactrians as they were known then. The Taliban didn't control Afghanistan either which allowed Al Qaeda to work from there. But invading and toppling the Taliban was strategic idiocy. As Alexander said, "Afganistan is easy to March into but hard to get out of." The British, Soviets and us continue to pay the price of blood and treasure for what history calls, "The Graveyard of Empires" for a reason.
What happened after the Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan is repeating itself again today in Syria — refugee children are targeted for radicalization, stateless fighters are being absorbed by extremist groups, and oh yeah, then there’s the fact that ISIS is regaining a foothold. The whole region is being destabilized largely because the US has announced its withdrawal.
Trump is apparently providing “limited support” to the Taliban to fight ISIS as the US begins drawing down troops from Afghanistan. This was admitted outright today in an Armed Services congressional hearing, and it should be front page news.
Rep. Michael Waltz (R-Fla.) asked U.S. CENTCOM chief Marine Gen. Frank McKenzie if Taliban had achieved victories against ISIS independent of U.S. support, McKenzie responded that the terror group had triumphed over ISIS in Nangarhar province with "very limited support from us. They’ve demonstrated a capability to defeat ISIS. It was a bloody mess, but they did it. In fact, ISIS really now no longer holds ground in Nangahar province. They’re trying to reestablish themselves up to the north in other provinces, and it remains yet to be seen whether they’re gonna be successful doing that, and we’ll know over time if they are.”
So now we are helping the Taliban fight ISIS, essentially helping the bad guys help the bad guys. If that’s not the most Trumpian thing ever... Let’s kick up an ant hill only to discover that a yellow jacket nest is in the ground right beside it.
Don the Con needs the deal more than the Taliban. They have been fighting for centuries and sadly, expect to have to do so. D the C needs pledges fulfilled. He doesn't care about the details. He doesn't care about Afghanistan. As long as he gets, what he sees as a plus in his column he could not care less about anything or anyone else. The idea that he would have to square up with the American people is to him, laughable.
I'm certain Trump's Taliban deal will be as successful as his N. Korea overture, trade war with China, replacement health care system, mitigation of the coronavirus, rebirth of manufacturing jobs, trickle down benefits from a $1.2 trillion tax cut, $11 billion wall to stock illegal immigration, etc., etc.
Yet, no matter how many lies and failures, a large percentage of Americans still believe this con man. That is truly astonishing.
Trump is just trying to secure his fame with this peace deal to offset his incredibly inept response to the Corona Virus here in our country. Taliban will continue to rule Afghanistan whether or not there's a peace deal, IMHO
The coalition has to remove all foreign troops from Afganistan by 3/10 the Taliban want all 5000 POWs released before talks begin! If ALL 5k are not released NO TALKS! All the goals the U.S. triied to install in this country have not been achieved! Including a stable Afgan Govt. The most important part is the Govt. has been left out since the Taliban does not recognize the current Govt. and said it is no more than a puppet of the U.S.The govt. stake holder are 'resentful' with the current state of affairs The whole affaire is a Taliban victory-they have nothing to lose! and are getting the better end of the deal!
First, we should have involved the Afghan government in talks. Second, we should train, supply and full arm any adult who wishes to protect themselves and their families. So if push comes to shove, they can decide for themselves if they want to go back to the 7th Century with the Taliban; or not. An armed household will make it difficult for the zealots to enter homes & drag out the non-believers.
We should pull our troops out of Afghanistan now.
I don't care about other Presidents, I am living in the present. New times, new laws. Especially with a Pres who cannot tell the truth.
Clearly the Taliban will not be converted in their philosophy. They will not stop until their extreme version of Islam law is WORLDWIDE let alone countrywide. Still I agree that we should withdraw. Australia still has 1550 troops in Afghanistan supporting your agenda which seems to be securing rights to mine rare earth minerals more than anything if you are going to be honest. No one is going to be mining anything there in the next decade or so though as almost certainly the fighting will continue as is has done since the death fo Mohammed.
Well, Nixon campaigned on a "secret plan" to get us out of Vietnam....
We should just be honest. We want to get out and do not care about what happens to the average Afghani.
If George II, Cheyne and Rumsfeld kept their eye on the mission at hand, instead of squandering resources on destroying Iraq, we might have accomplished something good. Instead, we have created messes and breeding grounds for terrorists in Afghanistan and across the MidEast
53
Stating the obvious here, what else would one expect from this clown-show administration? Guarantees or assurances in a transparent and public document?
No way, with this crew of malcontents.
It appears that the Afghan "peace agreement" is a cynical, election-precipitated feint by Donald Trump to lull the American people, and indeed the world, into a false sense of complacency.
If Americans have learned nothing else from three years of the Trump presidency, not to mention his decades of bloviating, puffery, and histrionically misleading and excessive rhetoric, it's that facts and reality have little to nothing to do with what comes out of Donald Trump's mouth.
Trump may be correct that Americans are tired of fighting a seemingly endless war fueled by inbred factionalism that is unlikely to ever be erased. But pretending that a politically-motivated exit is a peace agreement is just another exercise in Trumpist up is down and down is up rhetoric.
America deserves better, and so do the Afghans.
3
Makes Vietnam look like a trip to the Dollar Store. Another victory for the Military Industrial Complex.
1
This is an excellent opportunity for the United States to extricate itself from an ill begotten war. For all the failings of President Trump , this one thing, getting our troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq, put him miles ahead of those presidents and politicians who took us there in the first place. If he is capable of getting the job done is another question altogether.
2
Generally, I am not a Trump fan, in fact, just the opposite. In this case he is doing the right thing. There is no need to satisfy the Hawks in the Senate, there is no need to satisfy the nit pickers in the media who always see the worst in Trump (there is enough of the worst without torpedoing this treaty for more). Just get out of Afghanistan. We should never have gone there in the first place. History should have taught us that. Further, the loya jerga (sp), a meeting of tribal elders before we invaded, had promised to get rid of Osama bin Laden. I am waiting with baited breath for our exit. I hope it happens.
There is a good reason Afghanistan is called the graveyard of empires. Government in Afghanistan and government in the United States are not apples to apples but apples to kumquats.
I can best illustrate this with one graffito I found painted on a bulkhead deep in the bowels of a US Navy ship. In just three words, it demonstrated USN priorities and by extension those of the USA:
Mission
Unit
Self
In many ways, Americans subordinate themselves to a regional identity and it yields in turn to a national one. This makes for a very powerful military force and a nation as well.
Afghanistan's "motto" would read just the opposite:
Self
Unit
Mission
If there is any national identity and purpose, it is just an accident and marriage of convenience between factions. Individuals mostly just trust their families and those in the one valley in which they live.
Ultimately, our top-down government can seek an agreement but should never expect it to be honored except in the breach or by accident.
Time to whistle past the graveyard and come home.
1
So going forward, what will happen no one knows for sure. But if the seeds to recreate the reasons we went there in the first place still exist, why would anyone think that those seeds won't sprout again? If terror rises from the ashes there, do we go back in? We still have troops in South Korea. Why? In Western Europe. Again why? Would it be a failure and a waste of money to have a small force in Afghanistan to try cut down any terrorist weeds that start to grow as opposed to starting again from scratch? Every American needs to also look into their crystal ball and ask what is going to happen in the Middle East when oil becomes far less important. We are struggling in America with how to manage the changing economy here from manufacturing to service. We elected a wannabee dictator as a result. What do Americans think will happen in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq,Syria, UAE, Afghanistan, etc, etc when there is no need for their oil and they can't just throw up some malls and Amazon warehouses to 'fill the gap'? Do you think 'closing the borders' against peoples of the world who no longer have oil for an economic engine will protect us from their frustration and anger? Any more than doing the same protects us from Covid 19?
1
Sounds like Nixon's "peace with honor" declaration in Vietnam. We all know how that worked out.
3
The article, though it does make good points, is in itself pointless.
The reason that certain "annexes" are being withheld are the same as they have always been with ol' pumpkin head . . . insofar as he is concerned american lives, losses are of no importance whatsoever.
The ONLY thing that is important is for ol' pumpkin head to be able to continue telling the world how he is the greatest thing that has ever happened (and of course, more photo ops).
The truth, as we all know, is otherwise.
2
If anyone thinks Trump is using this peace deal for any other reason than to fulfill his Steve Bannon inspired mantra "Promises Made/Promises Kept" you have been living in a Fox News fishbowl.
Trump will leave Afghanistan in chaos and ruin solely for purely political reasons in the hopes of getting re-elected.
There will be no "peace with honor" because this is far more cynical than the Nixon/Kissinger Viet Nam debacle.
The Trump administration has long been paranoid about getting criticism in any form, especially from experts and people who know what they're talking about. If you are not praising them 24/7 like Fox News, then you are the enemy and don't need to know anything. It's been so hot in that kitchen that they can't take it but still refuse to get out.
1
The deal: the U.S. clears out and lets the Taliban regain control of the country, so trump can declare 'victory'. In exchange, the Taliban lays low until after the election. From the start, Afghanistan has been at least as much about American domestic politics as it has been about rooting out terrorists and protecting Afghans, especially women, from Taliban cruelty.
How did Romans become Italians? By changing uniforms and switching sides.
Fine, let's just stay another 20 years or so. It's rich to read that the Democratic neocons are still at it. Unless we stay there forever, we will never, "ensure that the Taliban meet their obligations under the agreement." I don't care what's in the agreement. I expect the Taliban will cheat. Let's just go. If there's a resurgence of ISIS, then drone them to kingdom come.
3
If we get out of Afghanistan then Trump has done us all a favor.
It does not matter what "agreements" were made.
The people born in Afganistan willl run the country as they see fit as it should be. Correct?
There was and is no need for us to stay in Afghanistan.
Out of Afghanistan Now.
1
To remove our forces from the disaster known as the Viet Nam war, when you cut to the chase, Nixon basically declared victory and we turned tail. This is basically a repeat performance by a GOP president.
Personally, I'm glad it's over. I remember seeing our forces fighting in barren terrains behind mud walls while goats looked on and thinking...is this third world country really a threat to our way of life? Second thought, why are we spending 8 billion dollars A MONTH in this vast wasteland 8000 miles from home?
In reflection the war steamed from 9-11 and our macho need to hit back.
This isn't about getting our troups out of there. Do you really think this administration gives a jot about "our troups"? When will we actually pull out? It will be November 1, of course.
2
JFK had a backroom deal to end the Cuban missile crisis. Unfortunately, Trump is no JFK.
1
The only time Liz Cheney can be trusted if it is to assure we will be at war, so listen to her and then do the opposite.
We fought for democracy and civil rights for Afghanistan for 19 years and they do not want Western life. Let's get out. Now.
1
It sounds basically like Trump has signed surrender terms with the Taliban in order to get the cheap claim that he ended the Afghan war after so many years. That is the bottom line. It is also perhaps the most egregious act of his entire administration -- so far.
In another age, oh so long ago, this agreement would have been panned by republicans as the surrender document. But since they're in charge now ...
2
A perfectly fine criticism. However, I saw no such criticism when Obama signed the Iran Nuclear deal and the payoff in cash.
1
"But if Americans are ready to exit this war, they want to know that their government is at least leaving its Afghan allies a fighting chance against a ruthless Islamist organization. They want some assurance that the Trump administration has not simply given the Taliban license to break their pledges and restore their brutal dictatorship."
What is the evidence for this proposition? This is merely the latest in the long line of bloody US interventions, large (Indochina) and small (Libya) in the affairs of countries of which the public and policy makers alike know very little that end with our shrugging our shoulders and walking away when the actual or projected costs become prohibitive. It is a bipartisan pattern from which it does not appear that we learn any lasting lessons.
All the public likely needs to know is contained in that "big wonderful deal" Trump worked out with Kim of NK. Or rather, the paucity of substance of a rearranged version of prior preliminary agreements to sometimes agree. In Afghanistan, Trump didn't even bother to include the elected leadership or government of the actual nation with which the US was supposed to be allied. and whose people will bear the brunt of a new Taliban resurgence upon our withdrawal. That big picture pretty much tell the US public, that the "deal" was simply put "Please stop shooting at us long enough for us to withdraw and fly out of here." If there was more of a grand bargain worthy of years or possibly decades of peace between the Taliban and the people of Afghanistan, the details would be publicized and spread far and wide by Trump, who never misses a chance to pat himself on the back. No, there is no "there" there. Just fluff to cover Trumps backside politically.
JFK also kept secret his deal with USSR about taking our missiles out of Turkey if they took theirs out of Cuba. But it worked.
1
Nothing to worry about. He'll release the full deal as soon as the IRS is done auditing it.
2
We just are trying to negotiate a face saving defeat. We lost years ago.
You mean the Kabul Trump Tower deal? The most beautiful, perfect deal?
2
This is simply a replay of the end to the Vietnam War. The White House cuts a deal with our enemy to end the war and remove American troops, while leaving our allies out of the negotiations. The guarantees we have from the Taliban, just like the ones we extracted from North Vietnam so many years ago, will be meaningless once the American troops are home. No American President will have the will to return our forces, or funds, to Afghanistan to enforce whatever agreements we’ve extracted from the Taliban. They will swallow up whatever puppet Afghani democracy we’ve left in place, and the vast majority of Americans won’t really care.
Trump never tells us everything about anything. There is no transparency in his administration because there is little competency.
1
Oh please I wish Trump was the worst,but Gulf of Tonkin,Iran Contra,overthrowing Allende in Chile and fabricated WMD's in Iraq are all recent examples how are government works Yes I believe we need to know the truth. What knowing would change? Probably nothing
When we look at the “successes” of Trump during his sad and sordid administration, it is not surprising that some details are closely guarded secrets. And perhaps those secrets could reveal how much of the “store” Trump gave away in order for him to claim “victory”.
Trump is a long term con artist with uncanny ability to fool and hoodwink many. And those who are gullible have succumbed to the con-again.
1
The annexes should not be secret. And we should not be in Afghanistan. If Trump, whom I detest, wants to declare victory and bring our soldiers home, fine. The longer we stay where we don't belong, the more American blood and treasure we waste. What should have been a raid in force followed by a swift withdrawal has become another quagmire. Just pack up and come home and let the Afghans decide whether to behave as a civil society or to continue to continue cutting each other's throats. But whatever we do, let's have the courage and wisdom to do it in broad daylight instead of ashamed secrecy.
1
More lies and subterfuge from the Trump administration. It is vital that the press continue to document these deceptions. Republicans refuse to hold Mr. Trump to account. That will be up to voters in November.
1
Ah if only Trump were as open in all matters as Obama. Well it wouldn't matter,the Board would still find something to bash him for. Partisan will be partisans after all
1
It's patently absurd to negotiate, much less 'reach' a 'peace deal' with religious extremists and zealots. By definition, their actions and motives transcend reason. Whatever they agree to would only be in effect as long as it serves their motives, which are not and never have been 'peace'.
This whole endeavour is nothing but Trump wanting to show some kind of achievement to his base. It's not worth the sand it is scrawled on.
1
"The Deal" is about getting reelected.
2
“This page” welcomed the deal, as did others in the “political spectrum”. Then stop pretending that any of these secret....annexes....will make a difference. We are giving up. To those Iranians with their ‘bags of money’ one of your articles detailed recently- to the Taliban....and, others? To Pakistan, the only nation that recognized the Taliban government pre-9/11. To what other nations have financed the Taliban over these past 19 years.
The mistakes aren’t in any secret, lax, conditions. They were in thinking we could deal with warlords, thinking that paying Pakistan to be an ally....that not confronting those that finance extremist religious imperialism- could somehow all come right.
And no doubt “this page” will document the results of our errors. In pictures. Save your crocodile editorial- way too late.
28-4 speaks
Why "should he"? Some stuff is OK to keep classified to conduct uncle sam foreign affairs without scrutinty or else ends up in perpetual debates instead of let's get out of that mountains, caves cesspool aka Afghanistan. Saudis should and owe "fiduciary" duty to themselves (unless wish USA wrath to be developed by mishandling Afghanistan after DOD withdrawal )toward whom those people have cultural Wahabism affinities, small steps in geopolitical maneuvers proceed with extreme caution.
People are people on earth with different mindset and as long as don't blow each other up "all is good". Saudis and Pakistanis must collude to placate those barbarians whose notion of "country" is derived from tribal and villages affinities rather than any notion of "centralized government". There ALL of population in that country ubiquitously consider so called "government" undesirable bandits outside of Kabul urban area in their sentiment and resolve to obliterate it tenaciousness in proclivities.
PS Chinese can mine whatever they want all right in Afghanistan because know how to get security for business climate provisioned in hostile environments without any enthusiasm or need to control anything outside of digging pits mine sector there. Although, that "country" has next to none of any significant commodities output besides heroin production to inundate global markets.
It is Nixon’s “peace with honor” redux.
In this case, it’s a “perfect agreement,” like the letter to Ukraine.
We all know where this is headed. In two years (or less), Taliban forces will be routing the Afghanistan military. The winner of the Afghanistan presidential election now will be wishing he had lost.
Indeed, if we really want to know which candidate really wants to be the next president of Afghanistan, we should offer visas now to the loser and his family. Of course, then we would likely have two candidates conceding defeat and we would have trouble finding someone willing to preside over Afghanistan while our forces retreat.
The biggest losers, of course, will be the women in Afghanistan. Unless and until the U.S. takes an honest stand for women’s rights around the world, our world will be in turmoil and no peace will be “perfect.”
1
We were attacked by Sauds and went to war with Iraq. Bush and Cheney were paid billions over the years by the Sauds. Carlyle group. Halliburton. Sauds had the dollars. But Saddam was a threat to the Sauds and Iran. In the 1980's he was our ally. But King Abdullah asked Cheney and Rumsfeld nicely to double-cross him and they said "sure". Taking Saddam out just made things in the Middle East even more unstable and did us mch harm. But the GOP ran their campaigns on it. Why now do the people who suffered so much in military service feel they have to praise the political party who lied to them and wasted their children's lives? Now Trump is just going to walk away in surrender. But everyone knows that Trump supporters will act like they won. Trust the Taliban? That is like trusting the virus to stop infecting us.
2
This administration has no end of gall. It negotiates with a terrorist group?!? It has a peace plan with people who have no peace in their hearts? It ignores the Afghan government and people on its way to run away? There is so much wrong with this, and very, very little right. The people who live there are the ones who should be negotiating and making sure that Taliban is not left to run amok straight back to the Dark Ages.
1
Let China and Russia fight over this worthless real estate. As I recall the Brits kept the lid on tribal vendettas for 150 years, and when they pulled up stakes it descended into anarchy. Why would the USA be any different?
Everything trump does is for political reasons. No exception here. Of course, the political reason here is to secure his presidency 4 more years to avoid prosecution for a life of double dealing, fraud, and too numerous crimes to begin to list. He's a scam artist, nothing more, nothing less.
1
Astonishing naivete is the only way to classify this utter joke. The Taliban have no intention of abiding by any agreement. This murderous radical group is operating under the auspices of Taqiya. In Islam, Taqiya is a precautionary dissimulation or denial of religious belief and practice in the face of persecution. In other words, they lie when confronted with an overwhelming force.
As soon as US troops leave, things will slowly devolve into the barbarity for which the group is famous. This is not a diplomatic triumph; it is pure and utter ignorance. Once again, the US seems never to understand that winning an insurgent war is all but impossible. How many Vietnams do we need to wake up?
If I'm understanding this correctly, the Trump administration, who railed against and bailed on a nuclear agreement with Iran (that was verifiable and working) because they did not think it went far enough, have now made a deal with the Taliban that lacks adequate verification? I'm sure Trump will call it "perfect and "beautiful". I'll just call it more of the same hypocrisy.
Two problems with this horrific war, there was never anything to “win” therefore we were doomed to lose, and it was always a crazy idea to invade and occupy a country to pursue a criminal ... who was captured and killed in a different country, as it turned out. Imagine if we had treated 9/11 as a mass murder by a gang of evil, ideological thugs instead of an act of war by a group with no country? How much better off would we be. The US has been having this same pointless discussion of when to cut losses there for 15 years. Enough. The Russians showed the folly of this invasion and occupation, just as the French did ahead of us in Vietnam. Invading and occupying Afghanistan and Iraq (Iraq!!??) as a response to the attacks of 9/11 was nuts, as hundreds of thousands of protesters tried in vain to point out ahead of our follies. I remain shocked but not awed.
Stomach churning. that's the way this essay made me feel. Is this the way towards Making Afghanastan Great again? Saying "tut-tut, you shouldn't do that,,," to the Taliban before turning our backs, a politician smiling on the campaign trail sticks out his hand for a lift up into the dark entrance, two soldiers on either side with rifles are watching the area past the Congressman, into the camera ...then, from the point of view inside the last military helicopter on the rooftop of some secured building, a mix of military and civilian Afghan personnel standing, watching the guy with the bright red MAGA cap , and military flak jacket saluting farewell...He shouts, "Stay strong!!!!!" The camera closes in for a reaction shot...and we, safe at home in the movie theater, are wondering, "What are they thinking?" On leaving the theater, some kid is heard murmuring to his date "What happened after that? The sky outside the theater has a slate gray color, a breeze begins to blow a bit stronger. and colder...
Wasn’t there a puppet government in Kabul? Sold too, I suppose.
It sounds like the Trump deal is to allow the Taliban to be the only terrorist group in Afghanistan, continuing their assault on the government there and all we have invested in. Now let's high tail it out before anyone notices and before the election!
"They shouldn’t have to simply accept Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s sound bites about a “historic opportunity” to “turn the corner.”"
Boy, that's an understatement.
1
This never was and never will be the only time American administrations have created a double standard of keeping the truth to themselves while lying to their citizens. Only this time the
truth has come out earlier than ever due to the established lack of trust in our incumbent IMPOTUS. Perhaps that's the silver lining in this dark cloud.
In my heart of hearts I hope that this deal could work out to the long-term benefit of Afghanis. But, to me the issue is not about whether the Taliban harbors terrorist groups or not. Certainly, I wouldn’t want that and such a commitment on the Taliban’s part is important.
However, what concerns me most is that the Taliban will retake political control of the country and all of the social advances in Afghanistan that have taken place over 20 years at the cost of American blood and treasure will evaporate. If we see five years from now a society where women are veiled and held as chattel, and girls denied education and a just place in their society, then whether the country harbors terrorists or not, our country’s sacrifices will have been for naught. As far as defense of the US against terrorists, our focus should be on anti-terrorism strategies, not military victories.
Let’s not forget, that had the US maintained mission focus in 2001, devoted itself to taking out Al Qeda, then leaving , as opposed to taking on a mission of political democratization, Afghanistan would have ended up at the same place two decades ago that this so-called deal could lead to again in a few short years. Trillions of dollars and thousands of casualties (on both sides) later nothing will have been gained. Money, but the way, that could have been better spent on foreign aid to Afghanistan.
1
At least South Vietnam was a party to the agreement ending their war. The result will be the same this time around, too.
1
Our leaving Afghanistan without all the details nailed down is just a different way of leaving by helicopter and having our allies trying to hang from the landing gear.
And we know how that worked out for Vietnam.
3
Instead of using both the military and the Department of State to try to cobble together a meaningful peace - its durability will always be subject to doubt - Trump and gang decide to cut and run for political gain.
Oh, and by the way, will this withdrawal help reduce military spending in the coming years?
3
Excuse me if I am not shocked or surprised. We all know this, because Trump has showed us who he is and how he operates. I, for one, am just counting the days until I can vote him and all of his underhanded friends OUT OF OFFICE! I hope everyone who reads this comment gets out and VOTES!
6
Americans do not have a need to know this information. What counts is that the US is exiting a war that has gone on for too long, and a war in which so-called rules of engagement hamper our warriors from doing their job; a war in which if our warriors do their job, which is to kill the enemy, they return to face court court-martial. That's no way to fight a war. Thank you.
1
The "peace agreement" never was a peace agreement. It was a Trump surrender, an agreement to pull American forces out of Afghanistan no matter what the Taliban did. And what the Taliban did was attack Afghan government forces as soon as the agreement was signed. Nothing was more ironic than seeing explosions shake Kabul during not one but two separate inaugurations for two rival presidents. Trump, of course, will claim credit for "promises made and promises kept," but his promises are as worthless as his ability to handle the coronavirus crisis.
11
The US is cutting and running. We should do, it's been a fiasco but Trump can't admit that essentially he's surrendered.
8
What team Trump are choosing to do is, turn the corner and turn our backs to the people of Afghanistan, many of whom will likely suffer again from the effects of Taliban rule.
Taliban are committed to imposing their will upon any with whom they come into contact. Our goal in 2001 was to disrupt, disable, and destroy groups intent upon harming us on our own soil. Promoting democracy and freedoms that should arise from its processes were secondary to the then stated mission. We won domestic security, at least for now. We did not win a war of ideologies.
1
@Gary
I doubt we won domestic security even for the short term...
This was most likely a concession to all Taliban demands with at best, just the request not to shoot us in the back immediately as we are going out the door.
This, just like our abandonment of the Kurds was a diversion to give the Orange Buffoon a quick win he could use for his re-election.
The Taliban is notorious for breaking agreements, so no one should not expect them to immediately violate whatever terms they agreed to.
“Deals” like this and the Kurdish betrayal are the signature move of the trump administration... when the pressure is on, just find a flashy diversion and do whatever it takes, regardless of the consequences to turn that into a propaganda tool you can use to divert attention away from whatever self made disaster is dominating the news.
Let’s see how long it is before the Taliban turn on us.
1
Trump will claim credit for his genius as a negotiator. The scheme is plainly designed to hide the fact that, in reality, he's just giving up and walking away.
13
At least he has the guts to quit and get out. You want to sacrifice more soldiers.
1
It's absurd to have a negotiation with a murderous organization that guaranty's NONE of the meager gains, mostly for Afghan women, that we have bought with 2000 lives and $2 TRILLION, not to mention all the civilians that we have killed as "collateral damage"; certainly their survivors deserve to keep whatever shreds of progress their relatives lives bought them? While I surely agree that the bulk of their defense must be borne by the Afghan army and police, why would we give up the right to support them with drones, clearly a weapon the Taliban fear? Trump's surrender needs to be labeled for what it is, and Pompeo's "assurances" are as empty as his promises to support the patriotic members of the State Department who tried to prevent the corruption of Ukraine for Trump's domestic political purposes.
14
In a long war of attrition, the Taliban has defeated the United States, just as the Vietnamese before them and just as their Afghan forbears defeated countless imperial occupiers.
What Trump isn't telling is irrelevant - defeat was inevitable and so is withdrawal.
Many of those who collaborated with the occupation will suffer - as happens always when an occupation crumbles.
Nothing America can do to stop that either - except offer ten million Afghans US citizenship.
But I doubt you care THAT much.
9
I wouldn’t call the defeat of al quada, the death of Osama or the empowerment of Afghan women defeats. When you do you reveal a contempt for aspirations of the Afghan people. Given any realistic view of things, we accomplished a good deal. Now it is amusing to see The NY Times demanding to see information that it thinks undercuts the trump withdrawal scenario, which the times supports.
Most people probably don’t care, they are tired of the war and just want to get out of it. If Trump can pull it off they won’t care how it was done. None of the Democratic contenders had a clue how to get out.
3
Things might have been different if there were some good hotel sites over there, I think.
8
The British, the Russians, the Americans, it will take someone like trump to get us out of Afghanistan, someone without empathy, who does not know or care about deals and promises made.
5
With Taliban left in charge, we have handed over those who helped us as linguists in Helmand Province, some of whom travelled in convoy to villages and can be easily identified, for whom we denied Special Immigrant Visas (SIV) based on specious evidence---a single "failed" polygraph too often administered under stressful circumstances.
4
We lost the Vietnam War. The Vietcong won. We lost this war too. The Taliban won. In both cases our "enemies" knew they could outlast us. It was just a matter of will and time. Even the most competent fighting force in the world, the U.S.armed force, can't outlast the inevitable inertia and expense associated with empire building. We've developed a fruitless and aggressive posture toward the 'outside' world since the days of Teddy Roosevelt's Rough Riders. What does failure feel like? It's the realization that we've squandered our entire lives fighting one futile battle after another with very little to show for the efforts. It's the realization that we are watching everything we claimed we stood for go up in smoke. It reminds me of that Bob Dylan lyric, "There's no success like failure, and failure's no success at all."
7
'Why is the Trump administration keeping parts of its deal with the Taliban secret from the public?"
Because of this sentence that rises skepticism with 'congressional members who had read the document' and it speaks to our national security regarding foreign acts of terrorism ;
"Taliban leaders pledged not to cooperate with terrorist organizations that target the United States."
The man who holds the title of Commander and Chief of our nation cannot fully comprehend the details and long-range aftermath of such an agreement. More importantly, he does not give a rip about 'how what when' test. He is desperately busy to win reelection.
Announcing an excellent and historic agreement will be a promise kept and a feather in the cap for him and the GOP.
7
It seems very likely that a withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan, together with a declaration of victory, is planned as an “October surprise” by Donald Trump to help his re-election campaign. Undoubtedly, Trump has several other surprises planned. It is the only style he understands and enjoys.
7
As long as we are in Afganistan, there will be continued violence. To believe that secret language will make any difference to stay is ridiculous. Regardless of politics and agreements, it appears that neither side is willing to give peace a chance given the extreme differences within that nation and our resolve to leave.
Moving forward, I sincerely doubt the validity of any agreement with Afganistan and participating parties to come to fruition. Reasoning becomes simple as we overstayed our original date of withdrawal by a decade. The excuse continues to be a military decision from the pentagon rather than a leadership position concerning a withdrawal date. If we had a leadership decision, we could leave in several months with our equipment in hand.
3
I did not like the fact that some details of the Iran JCPA were secret, and I don't like the fact that details of the Taliban treaty are secret. Two wrongs do not make a right. The American people deserve to know what is being done in their name.
3
It has to end, we cannot keep justifying the loss of life from this military action. One less battle, one less coffin, one less life scarified.
3
@George But you cannot just walk out and leave the women of Afghanistan to the trials of the Taliban. Nor can you just negotiate a 'peace' agreement without the
Afghan government involvement. You will leave a people to their dubious destiny just as you did in South Vietnam
The ultimate defeat of the US in Afghanistan is not if but when. Afghanistan is one of the least developed countries in the world. It is defeating the words'most developed nation. Yet another indicator (China, Korean war, Vietnam and Iraq wars, Cuban revolution, Iranian revolution,) of the continued historic decline of the American empire. The curtain is descending.
3
The United States has done a very good job in Afghanistan. Thanks to the US-military the Taliban have been chased from power, giving never-seen opportunities to Afghan girls and women to attend school and college, to youngsters to play and dance on western music and instead of a dictatorschip we saw the rise of a democratic regime, with a lot of set-backs, but it was nevertheless promising.
With the departure of the Americans, everything will fall in shatters. Trump abandons the Afghan people, like he betrayed the Kurdish fighters in Syria.
For me, this 'peace deal' is the biggest political lie ever in American history.
5
@robert Newsflash!
Afghan women made their greatest social advances (especially in education) in the late 1970's under the Soviet-backed Afghan govt.
A govt the US helped militarily overthrow by backing the Mojahdeen.!!! The precursor to (ready) the Taliban!!!
For fear of a loss of face and possible negative impact in the November elections Trump will try hard to keep the real one sided surrender nod that he has agreed to in the so-called US-Taliban peace deal. Thus what the deal conceals is more disturbing and devastating than what little it reveals in its illegible text that bestows legitimacy on the Taliban terror group as also gives it a veto on Afghanistan's future.
7
“ The war in Afghanistan has cost the United States far too much in lives and treasure — 2,400 service members killed, $2 trillion spent — to be used for cheap political manipulation.”
But cheap political manipulation is all the Trump administration has. There’s certainly no expertise, knowledge, strategy, ethics, diplomacy or deep thought.
9
Trump is extracting us from the quicksand of our futile self destructive regime change strategy.
@gkwest - - - If Trump is so dumb or evil, why is HIS economy seeing black & Latino workers having the best years of their lives with low 4% unemployment when Barack Obama was satisfied with black unemployment at 17%?
No no no. The real question is WHY the US even went into Afghanistan in the first place. Yes, there were Al Qaeda camps, but the Taliban indicated clearly that they would happily close them after 9/11, and kick out the fighters.
The terrorists who carried out 9/11 were overwhelmingly Saudis, as was Osama bin Laden. The financial backers of the terrorists were also from Saudi Arabia or the Arab Gulf States. This entire conflict has always been besides the point.
I'm not pretending that the Taliban are nice people or that their value patterns resemble ours, but a clear and present danger they were not.
Furthermore, it is useful to go back to the Soviet withdrawal in 1989. The West, which had backed stridently Islamic mujaheddin factions, abandoned the Afghans and let them stew. It is the ensuing corruption and chaos that even allowed the emergence of the Taliban.
That the US suffered some 2.000 fatal casualties over its 19 year involvement is a tragedy, each and every one (as are the physical and mental scars of the survivors), but a single cemetery in France contains the remains of 9,387 US servicemen who died in the few weeks following the Normandy invasion...
Finally, perhaps you should add an approximation of the numbers of Afghans, who lost their lives or health as a result of these 19+ years of war? It is their country you have been laying waste to.
11
Is this a poisoned gift for the next democratic president? Timing wise it sure looks like it. It would also be a distraction from the judiciary proceedings against Mr Trump that will grow stronger once he leaves office about at the same time, a few weeks before the troops’ withdrawal deadline.
1
He’s not leaving office.
This comment shows great insight.
Weren't "secret agreements secretly arrived at" one of the things American government was supposed to abjure after WWI? They are another sign of the degeneration of our democracy.
5
Planning to end the Afghan war is not the same as ending it. Hence, Trump has not earned credit for ending Bush's and Obama's war. Nor has Trump brought home all soldiers in foreign countries.
The U.S. government is hampered by entangling alliances that George Washington presciently warned against, resulting in more wars than most other governments, wasting young people such as Pat Tillman.
8
If the Taliban deal seems familiar it's because quick fixes and selling out are trump specialties. There is no serious strategic planning or thinking. Short-term political expediency, humoring dictators and the administration's infantile nationalist ideology are usually the order of the day. What happened to the Kurds is a good indicator of where Afghanistan is likely to end up. Another sad chapter in America's long and dismal record of foreign intervention.
14
At least in Vietnam we saved a few people by allowing them into the US. These people had helped us, by translating for us and fighting alongside us.
Will we offer the same refuge for Afghanis who risked their lives similarly?
Trump and his supporters will not. And the consequences of that will end the United States.
7
“Will end the US”? Hopefully. We are a toxin to the welfare of the world.
Afghanistan is a state where an enormous share of the population has never lived in what could be called "peace" and likely never will. That should startle Americans into awareness of but aware of the grievous consequences of internecine political conflict. It is easier to start a war than to end one.
1
The use of secret treaties has a long history, but is is not usually resorted to by democracies. However, we are no longer a democracy.
7
I'm sure the agreement offers the US an opportunity to slide out in the dark of night..and leave the region to work out it's problems on it's own. As they should...There is no peace to be had in the conventional sense...like we achieved in WW2. It's a way to get out while looking over our shoulders as we do it...and is,after all, about time.
1
I deeply feel gratitude for those who served, and regret for those lives lost or upended by injury in this war.
It’s hard for me to criticize what is transpiring, these are hard problems to solve. How much involvement in another country’s affairs is needed to keep America and its allies safe?
One grows weary of these wars. Human rights is important, but at some point, enough is enough. How much of this broken world is one country obligated to fix? These issues require a world response, we while can certainly inspire and lead, it has to be in unity with a coalition that these problems be solved.
More damaging than scribing a bad deal with the taliban, to me, is trump destroying the relationships with our allies needed to make these coalitions against evil in the world exist, and thrive.
3
@slogan
I could not be more insulted. The fact that you seem to have no idea that the allies of the US have been along side you throughout this ordeal is very upsetting. These allies had no need to be there but stood next to the US when it asked for support.
@slogan Hats off, you have pretty much summed things up. Hope if all our countries hang in there together and not so much if we don't. We need leaders in a bad way and if they don't show themselves soon, then send in the clowns.
“Humpty Dumpty had a great fall....they couldn’t put Humpty together again”.
Humpty is us (US).
Bearing in mind the secret negotiations that were involved in Viet Nam, the lack of information on walking out of Syria, is it any wonder that the American people are kept in the dark in the latest proposed departure from Afghanistan. Trump, like Nixon, should stop treating the Miitary as a personal toy.
8
Using a similar strategy, Obama did not take proper precautions when leaving Iraq, leaving behind great hostilities between the Sunnis and Shiites, and empowering ISIL. The Board’s complaints against Trump parallel the disaster left behind by Obama.
@michjas A little history reminder concerning the withdrawal from Iraq-G.W. Bush and his advisors negotiated the withdrawal agreement and the terms and conditions of that agreement.
Obama merely complied with the agreement.
So, Obama did in a way contribute some to the after effects, but, he was not a party to the agreement.
State facts, not Trumpian nonsense.
14
@michjas
Obama was supposed to resolve hostilities between the Sunnis and Shiites? Please. Those hostilities have existed for 1,400 years. Nothing Obama could have done would fix that problem.
1
Obama and Bush contributed equally to the disaster in Iraq.
There is nothing inevitable or necessary about our abandonment of the girls and women of Afghanistan to the criminally insane Taliban. We could maintain a few bases there forever. We do that in many other places. The cost to us would be small. The cost to our honor of simply pulling out will be incalculable. Did you know that under the Taliban, women could not receive a doctor's care? That's because women could not be doctors and no unrelated man could examine a woman's body. An ill woman's only recourse was to have her father or husband describe her symptoms to a doctor. That's what's coming back.
9
@Alisa A :"We could maintain a few bases there forever. We do that in many other places. The cost to us would be small."
Would you encourage your children or grandchildren to join the military and fight in Afghanistan?
If so, props to you.
Like some of the red states here at home re women’s bodies, women’s right.
We have a domestic predominantly non violent Taliban like cult right here in the US.
The sad part is the U.S. could have avoided almost twenty years of war and many lives upended and lost if we had just taken the Taliban up on their offer to capture Bin Laden during the Bush administration. They probably just want their country back. In any case, no matter what happens it is all been bad for the women and girls of Afghanistan and will probably continue to be bad for them.
7
If you want to help those female victims just welcome 500,000 of them to become US citizens over the next few years.
I’ve never understood any reason for the U.S. to be in Afghanistan aside from that country’s proximity to Pakistan. Pakistan has appx 100 nuclear weapons in its arsenal. It’s government is corrupt and weak, and its intelligence services are completely infiltrated by multiple terrorist organizations. It is easily imagined that Pakistan could lose control over any part of its nuclear arsenal to a terrorist sponsored group. I’ve always assumed the U.S. military maintained Special Forces and their bases in Afghanistan to be on constant ready to serve as a rapid response force into Pakistan should it lose control of any nuclear weapons. I’ve never heard this premise properly discussed and think it’s worthy enough to demand attention of NYT.
4
The administration is making a big deal out of the Taliban agreeing not to host "foreign" terrorist organizations like Al Qaeda or ISIS—but the Taliban itself is a terrorist organization! Just ask Malala Yousafzai.
I understand the weariness after a war that has dragged on for nearly 20 years now. But what the Trump administration proposes isn't a peace agreement. It's pure abandonment. And sooner or later, Afghanistan will become a haven for terror, aimed both abroad and at its own people.
3
It simply isn’t possible to trust this president or believe that he and his administration have the competence to accomplish anything, whether domestically or internationally. Trump is this country’s greatest security threat, something that is hopefully being acknowledged as the Democratic sea parts for Biden and voters throng to the polls for the candidate who has the best chance of beating Trump in November.
7
Let me guess the right to build a Trump property and some kind of oil or mineral right...
3
Jared approved the deal based on his vast experience in international relations. What more do you need to know?
14
A bill/invoice should be sent to each taxpayer for the Afghanistan "war"....
And the chain of events that led to it.
We, the People, need to be Accountable for our poor leadership!
A win for America and Hopefully for world peace.
@skepto
The type of winning we are all sick of right?
"In return, Taliban leaders pledged not to cooperate with terrorist organizations that target the United States or to let them use Afghan territory, and to open talks with the government (which was not party to the agreement) and other Afghans on a permanent cease-fire..."
A pledge hey? That should be a great victory for world peace. I guess they had better keep their pledge or else.
@skepto Nonsense. This is not a “win” for America and there will be no “world peace”.
This is a joke....right?
The Taliban abiding by the terms?
The United States has lost this war. The Taliban won. They understand the position they’re in. The U.S. is doing nothing but trying to save face.
Honestly, the most shocking part is that there are still Americans who think we can tell the Afghanis what to do as we’re forcefully being shown the door.
5
This war was a tremendous success for our country. What are all of you talking about?
Corporate America has made trillions off of it and employed a hundreds of thousands of well-paid American workers. Criminal George W. Bush got the ball rolling, Obama had to maintain it and now little trump did the same, but more.
As a number of comments pointed out, it has cost the (middle class or aspirants toward) taxpayers dearly and denied all the things that our country promised us as the "greatest country in the world (ha)". Thousands of lives have been lost or ruined on all sides.
Now "the thing" in the W.H. wants to snag credit for ending the war and deposit one of his slimy "perfect" actions on us. No thanks.
1
We lost. We were never going to win. Trump lies. He is never going to tell the truth. We are squirming out of Afghanistan, and the sooner the better. Our men and women in uniform who fought there have served honorably and with devotion to the ideals of America. Our leaders didn't do nearly as well.
4
@Robert C. :"We lost. We were never going to win. Trump lies. He is never going to tell the truth. We are squirming out of Afghanistan, and the sooner the better. "
That's a lot of squirming.
So what is trump doing to insure that the Afghan people who fought alongside US troops all these years don't get slaughtered?
2
@William Thomas
The same thing he did to insure the Turks wouldn’t slaughter the Kurds—which is—absolutely nothing.
"if Americans are ready to exit this war, they want to know that their government is at least leaving its Afghan allies a fighting chance against a ruthless Islamist organization". THEY HAVEN'T
"They want some assurance that the Trump administration has not simply given the Taliban license to break their pledges and restore their brutal dictatorship."
THEY HAVE.
Does anybody think that Trump is interested in Afghan prisoners of women's rights. Really.
And on the basis of this sleight of hand, and an absolute lack of empathy for those Afghans who sided with the West and have enjoyed a mere taste of relative freedom that will soon be cruelly taken from them, the Taliban have "earned" the privilege of visiting Camp David and otherwise being celebrated by the Trump crew? Trump, again, enjoys dealing with dictators more than leaders whom he perceives as weak and again displays his own weakness.
2
"...Taliban leaders pledged not to cooperate with terrorist organizations ... The two annexes that remain classified are said to deal with the criteria by which the United States will determine whether the Taliban are keeping their promises ... the annexes give President Trump “enormous latitude to simply declare that the war is over and leave.”"
What a joke.
The Taliban is the terrorist organisation and so their pledge not to cooperate with any terrorist organisation, hardly is any real restraint on them outside of any commitment on their part to not resort to violence and terrorism.
Next, any real strategic policy and commitment on the part of the govt to just leave, hardly needs any ratification within the treaty as to how to monitor if the Taliban are keeping their promises. Rather, the lack of any such monitoring or commitment on the part of USA to be bound by the Taliban keeping their promises, allows the USA itself leeway to retract on its position to withdraw.
@Nirmal Patel :
The US has a population of just over 300 million and is what, 8000 miles or so away from Afghanistan. Bin Laden is dead. India has a population of 1.3 billion i or so and is about 500 miles from Afghanistan. If you're so worried about Afghanistan, India is the right country for the job. Have at it.
"Cut and run." Let's call that American foreign policy. Vietnam? (I won't bore you with the details.)
Trump = Trouble. He's in trouble. If he's not president of the United States, then he's probably in jail with Manafort. Trump needs something. Anything. Looks like Biden will win and the Bernie Sanders foil is not going to work.
So: enter the "Art of the (Bad) Deal." Want some?
The original reason for the Afghanistan war was to get bin Laden. That’s done.
1
Sorry, has the "chosen one"* ever told us everything about anything (or, anything about everything). There has never been anything transparent about this putative administration. In real life, actions always speak more loudly than especially, in this particular case, words. Peter Principal is real and in action here, every day.
*his words...
1
Trump desperately needs a "win." And let us face it: it is very likely that the majority of Americans want out of this long and seemingly eternal war. We want our soldiers home from, sadly, a country which will not find peace probably for years to come. That is the good news....for us. Yet making a deal with the Taliban is not unlike shaking hands with the devil. Historically, the above sect has shown itself to be brutal, cruel, and oppressive. And this group will not change. What gains that have been made in Afghanistan over almost two decades will be obliterated in no time if and when given the chance. And the Taliban has been given more than a chance. One must remember, too, that any utterance from Pompeo is also from the mouth of his boss. This State Secretary just sugar-coats it and makes it sound intelligent and diplomatic. I want our military home as much as the next person, but I fear leaving it in the hands of this administration and the Taliban is the wrong way to go.
2
"Cheap political manipulation"
That is Trump's stock & trade. Like his border wall, he only cares about fulfilling his overblown campaign promises. The Taliban have no intention of upholding any peace agreements with 'infidel' westerners. They have the luxury of time and home turf.
Taliban, IS and al-Qaeda are all Sunni Wahhabist allies. They are relentless, and will settle for nothing less than complete control and imposition of Sharia Law. The women of Afghanistan, who have seen gains in recent years, will again become slaves to their male masters.
The U.S. invasion in 2001 was justified, but the goals should have been limited, well-defined, then leave. Instead, it turned into a nation-building enterprise gone awry. We all want out of Afghanistan, but those of us around long enough to have witnessed the chaos and desperation of the Vietnam withdrawal don't want to see that scenario repeated.
1
Everyone in these comments wants it both ways. Y'all want out but want some kind of assurance it wasn't all for nothing. Here's the truth, sorry, but after we destroyed al qaeda -It was all for nothing. No chance Afghanistan was ever going to be a flourishing democracy. No chance we were going to control them and force them to build a civil society reflecting western ideals. Pure hubris. If you served there, thank you- you are our heroes for answering the call of your country. Its a tragedy so many of our young men and women sacrificed so much for deeply flawed leaders and their notions of "nation building". We should have called them up to rebuild our nation instead. So instead of using this as a political football and venting at the President, just thank God someone is willing to call this thing, finally, and get us OUT- Or should we drag this on until the corporatist warmongers at the NYT say its enough? How much more blood and treasure do you peace-loving neoliberals (and neoconservatives) want to waste to keep the future looking rosy for the military industrial complex?
2
The word “Taliban” means “student”; the teacher was Pakistan, and U.S. paid for the education! Bin Laden was hiding near/in Pakistan’s Military Academy! It is no surprise that U.S. could not subdue, bribe or befriend the Taliban! President Trump is cutting the losses and quitting the scene! Indeed, under the circumstances, there is no better option!
What does the future hold?
Pakistan wants Afghanistan for ‘strategic depth’ in her next war with India! Probably, the Sunni-Jihadist ‘alphabet soup’ of Taliban, Al Qaeda, ISIS, etc. would overtake Pakistan, plunge her in a Sectarian blood bath, fight with each other and harass India, Russia and China!
It can be expected that the "Times" would pass strictures on this motley coalition for human right abuses and excesses!
I believe the phrase “Cut and Run” is applicable to Trumps Afghan agreement.
The Afghan government and the citizens who supported it, especially women and girls, are the same as the Kurds in Yemen. They will suffer and die when the Taliban take over. Maybe Trump is right and Americans will reward him for leaving them to their fates. Promise made, promise kept.
The Loser in Chief is abandoning a generation of Afghans who were betrayed by the "most powerful country in the world", as he likes to claim. Meanwhile the Taliban representative was gloating about "winning the war" against the superpower. Well now we know how smart the Soviets were when they decided to hang it up thirty years ago. It's a capitulation in the likes of Vietnam, only it's going to happen even faster.
1
We can be sure if agreements and annexes are being kept secret, that they contain really bad stuff -- regardless of the administration. When you consider what administrations are willing to publicly lie about then, it puts in perspective just how bad this other material is that they believe must be kept secret.
3
Trump's idea that he has a deal with the Taliban is either naive or negligent. Once we reduce or even remove our troops from Afghanistan--a physical fact--we have to rely on the Taliban's word that it will cease military operations against the Afghan government--a moral hope.
The Taliban will not keep its word. It knows that Trump cannot ramp up the war. I do not blame the Taliban; indeed, its lie enables us to get out as we should have done long ago. Our mission was to rout Al Qaeda; we did that. But the notion that we could change the country, if not to a democracy, at least to a state inimical to terrorists reflected western arrogance.
The only "secret" in any arrangement with the Taliban should be a promise to strike if it creates a threat to us or our allies. That promise might be extended to all the Arab countries in the Middle East. If Arabs want to overthrow monarchist autocracies and replace them with populist autocracies, let them. When Arabs learn that autocracies do not work well for them, perhaps they will change their ways. But we should get over the idea that we can changes their ways, and in ways favorable to us.
The agreement between Trump's administration and the Talibans reminds me of what the Nixon administration did in Vietnam.
You see, the Nixon administration signed the Paris Peace Agreement with the northern Communist Vietnam regime, WITHOUT a single word in that agreement contributed by its south Vietnam government ally! Keep in mind that the US FORCED its way directly into the Vietnam war theater by removing its first president via a coup d'état.
About the Peace agreement, Henry Kissinger suggested that a period of a few years would be sufficient for the US not to be seen as abandoning its ally (when it no longer suits US interests).
Fast forward, Afghanistan is now a history repeat in itself.
Can anybody really trust US government?
3
The editors are sanguine over an outrage, and unwittingly abet an authoritarian ploy.
Since when does the United States sign secret treaties in matters of war and peace?
Only congress can declare war. Surely it’s up to congress to decide the terms of peace, too. Regardless, the American government is, nominally at least, government by consent of the governed. We can’t consent to that which the government conceals from us.
We invaded Afghanistan in public. We should leave the same way, of course. But it should not be up to any president, ever, to decide matters of war, or peace.
4
@James K. Lowden ''since when'' you ask. Since 1814, james, when we made such ''arrangements" with the French and the Spanish during the War of 1812.
1
@James K. Lowden While I may agree with you in principle, our Constitution does not quite. (that's how we got into Korea.)
I remember Vietnam and "peace with honor." There was no peace, no honor. We did not leave South Vietnam a fighting chance against a ruthless ideological enemy. And it's happening again. When will we learn?
How much money and how many years did it take for the US to give up and give in. The Soviets did it much quicker. Is this what is called cut and run, American style. This is a far bigger failure than losing Crimea.
2
The Orange Occupant only wants to claim he ended the Afghan war. If the terms of our withdrawal means that we essentially leave the whole mess the way we found it - effectively negating the human and financial sacrifice made by so many for so long - he couldn’t care less. I’m all for getting out but I think most of us would like to do it feeling like we accomplished SOMETHING...
7
Just like Vietnam.
This is basically Trump's fig leaf for the US getting out of Afghanistan and the Taliban's eventual return. Nothing can prevent it. It's a done deal...
"Why is the Trump administration keeping parts of its deal with the Taliban secret from the public? "
Good question. Keep asking it. And let's circle back and demand to know Why he confiscated the notes of the translator from his private meeting with Putin? There are so many unanswered questions. Please, please KEEP ASKING THEM.
5
...give President Trump ...to simply declare that the war is over and leave.
He has to do what is feasible. Good he has the courage required.
1
Obfuscation is a trademark of this administration. No surprise here.
Who will suffer the real consequences will be the Afghan people, just like the Iraqi people before or the Yemeni people, etc. (long list to choose from). And let's not forget all the American soldiers who have perished or been hurt or the trillions of $ thrown out of the window, with what to show for it?
Very sad!
6
The Taliban are privately cheering , they have assured their future control of Afghanistan. The Afghan people’s future is not looking good. Trump, the so called “deal maker”, has no talent to negotiate any peace treaty, and certainly can not be trusted for any “deals” he makes. He has destroyed the Iran nuclear treaty , the Paris climate Treaty and every other “deal” he has involved himself in. November can not come soon enough.
23
Well, they lifted a leaf from the Obama Administration . We still don't know all the details of the Iran deal, but we do know that pallets of cash were exchanged in the prior administration.
1
@jackinnj At least there was a leaf in the Obama Administration. The branch of diplomacy offered by the Trump Administration is bare.
16
You still don’t want to face the facts. The money passed back to the Iranians, was their money , money that was frozen by the US banks and other countries financial institutions including Russia, UK,Germany, China,France and the European Union. The money that was returned was part of the lifting of some of the sanctions for Iran’s cooperation with abandoning their nuclear policies.Most of this money WAS NOT HELD IN U.S. BANKS but in foreign banks. So please it is time to stop this Trump lie. Trump scuttled the Iranian deal and we now find ourselves with a nation again pursuing their dangerous nuclear ambitions.
19
@jackiennj
Interesting response , I would’ve expected more. Trump’s own administration, to his disappointment, verified that Iran was sticking to the deal. I didn’t love it but it did buy us time.
Under President Trump, the United States is no longer a reliable ally. We abandoned the Kurds, we treat NATO like a boys club where the other members aren’t paying their share of the dues when , in fact , it is a defense pact. Now , we abandon Afghanistan with our tails between our legs. The only reason Trump keeps something secret is because it will hurt him personally.
What is the result ? We ask countries not to purchase Huawei equipment and they ignore us. No one has a reason to trust us. We are rapidly becoming a second rate country. Wait until you see how that affects our economy, which was no better under Trump then it was under Obama. (Check the GDP Numbers for end 2019 and this year even before the virus hit)
12
If anyone thinks Trump is the only President who has kept details about foreign negotiations secret, you are beyond being completely dishonest. This is just more of the daily NYT Trump bashing.
My husband served in Afghanistan and Iraq as a Marine in 2004 and 2005. If he had died, it would have been for nothing. We never should have been in Iraq and that is on Bush. The Arab Spring - utter chaos that will never end.
76
@Olivia ordinarily i try to lean to your way of thinking BUT both presidents or both parties have made deals with the devil and kept certain unsavory details secret.
4
@Olivia Whataboutism at its best. But wasn't Trump going to drain the swamp? Everyone lies. But Trump never tells the truth.
Trump's deal with the Taliban seems to be that they hold off on the takeover until after the election so that he can add one more false claim to his endless list.
Just a little reminder on how Bush ran for re-election. He claimed we were winning and he accused anyone who criticized him of being unpatriotic. At the republican convention, they were handing out band-aids with a purple heart printed on them. "Oh, I cut myself shaving, so I gave myself a purple heart." Now Trump is literally hugging the flag. There is a difference between shameless claims of patriotism and real patriotism. Olivia, I would think you would know that. Trump had 'bone-spurs' that kept him from fighting.
70
Love seeing Trump supporters defend a guy who makes fun of people who served and were tortured (even though Trump repeatedly ran away and hid from service) and even publicly insults a Gold Star family. Shows what kind of people Trump and his supporters really are.
86
This was “negotiated” by individuals in the Trump “administration.”
Therefore we can be absolutely certain that deceit, sleaze, incompetence, or corruption was involved.
Or...all of the above.
9
A place called the "Graveyard of Empires" claims another victim. Who could have seen that coming?...
5
Another all too predictable, at this point, Trump PR ploy. At least North Korea has gotten rid of their nukes! Oh, wait.
14
Hotels and golf courses??
3
So, what else is new?!
2
More deceit from the most deceitful president in the nation's history.
4
Vietnam redux. Twenty-five months after the last US troops left in March 1973 the Communist takeover was completed.
Fourteen plus twenty-five takes us to June 2023. Women, and anybody who helped U.S and coalition forces, should be dreading that date, at the latest.
"Trust but verify?"
The Republican Party was crazy enough under Reagan and his budget busting deficits and societally destructive "deregulation."
Now under Trump (and it is "under" him) the Republican Party is completely looney. Expediency and "loyalty" to an individual rather than to country, justice, morals and decency, is all that matters.
8
I suppose Trump does not want us to see the two secret written annexes so that we will not see proof of what an incompetent negotiator he really is.
But we already knew that.
He never does anything without trying to get a personal benefit out of the deal.
Could he negotiated a provision that would give any hotel he built in Kabul "safe conduct" from attack by the Taliban?
1
Ahh, and if Jr. had not invaded Iraq, this might all have been moot. Just can't trust Republicans when it comes to waging war.
4
This deal is a campaign gimmick for Trump most of all......and as valid a negotiated peace deal as his Wall was.
As we can see from his “leadership” in this epidemic, Trump only cares about appearances, not substance....just as he did not want the cruise ship passengers to land but wanted them to remain on the water—to make his Coronavirus numbers look better.
4
"But it’s incumbent on the United States to ensure that the Taliban meet their obligations under the agreement...." Nothing but wishful thinkin, there. What happens when the Taliban fail to honor the agreement? Are US forces planning to re-engage?
1
This Administration is utterly unconscionable!
Wake up America: we entirety deserve to know such things! We paid for this war, thousands died.
Every day: Trump makes us more like Russia or China. Entire conversations now take place with Putin that only a select few deep within the Administration know the topics of. Apparently, no records are kept.
Behold: the real deep state - and they don’t work for us!
4
So “greatest ever President”, with the weight of the “Greatest Military force” behind him, has more or less accepted the Taliban as its peer… Even more surreal is that confers upon the Taliban the de facto title as sovereign of Afghanistan, while delegitimising its elected Government…
No, this does not have all the hallmarks of creating the perfect conditions for a brutal civil war… and the chaos which allows extremists to pitch their message to a jaded yet sympathetic audience…
Does no one learn from history anymore?... so the folly continues…
5
‘Trump isn’t telling us everything’ about virtually everything the Trump administration has been up to since day one. Why would this latest ‘deal’ with the Taliban be any different?
1
I believe the deal consist of something like the US agreeing to get out. There will never be peace in Afghanistan if the historic record is anything to be relied on as a guide. We really should have been in and out fast, and definitely out after Bin Laden was killed.
The nation building and dictation of democracy to countries that have been traditionally feudal is proof of stupidity in US foreign policy. We have never left a country more stable than when we enter. It's just different but in no important ways.
91
@Chris
How about Japan and Germany as a response to your conclusion that ‘we have never left a country more stable than when we entered’? However Afghanistan is for sure a far different situation
18
@Chris -- I think we could have been out 15 years ago, if we had picked one or two of the warlords that controlled the country, and just backed them from a distance, and tapered off. There is -no- tradition of democracy in Afghanistan, and the only real unity they had was under a monarchy. We might have reinstituted that, and gotten out. Left to themselves, it probably would have degenerated into a civil war, then ultimately a strongman winner, or a theocracy. Guess what it will be a year after Trump's pullout? The same thing. I wonder how much of the bags of money the US poured into that country are in a Swiss or Cayman Islands bank account...? Poor strategy, poor political policy execution, utter waste of military and civilian Afghan lives and US taxpayer's money. Are we safer now? Was there a better way - but that might not have poured so much money into our defense industry, and reinforced our military's claim on so much of our budgets... Next time we fight a 'war of choice', I vote we have the president, whoever they are, 'lead from the front' as in 'Commander in Chief on the field of battle with rifle in hand.'
17
@Crowd Displeaser Chris is clearly talking about the post-WW2 era. Look at the record from Vietnam forward. And the cost in lives, money, and social disruption in our own country.
9
Trump doesn't need to tell us that the Taliban won.
After humiliating the Soviet Union the Taliban has humbled America.
And by failing to debate and declare and pay for war and peace in Afghanistan our divided limited different power constitutional republic of united states lost.
3
A meaningless agreement from the Trump administration is par for the course. I would expect nothing else. Trump is pure theater for the benefit of Mr. Kite. There is no there there.
This surely is the kind of obfuscation and secrecy we have come to expect from the Trump administration. Trump is incapable of making a measured and sensible decision based on the reality of any given situation, be it refusal to allow his financial records to be released, the response to the Covid19 crisis, Afghanistan, or any of dozens of other examples of failure to lead - truly, too many to list. He is not to be trusted, nor are the sycophants who work to fulfill whatever his agenda is, chosen from an increasingly narrow pool of most loyal Trump advocates rather than the most competent. Afghanistan will most likely continue to bleed as it has for numerous decades. yet another tragedy left in the destroyer in chief's path to chaos.
1
The premise that America is the just judge and jury of the world is false. Afghanistan, like Vietnam, was not simply a mistake, but an excursion in unbridled arrogance. Never mind what conditions exist in Afghanistan, the Americans should leave; they cannot fix it, and it's not their responsibility.
1
Serious Afghanistan watchers believed that no matter what the Taliban did after the so called "treaty" was signed American troops would start to leave the country without regard to Taliban attacks. That the whole process was a sham is looking more and more real and the whole exercise was just a typical Trump adventure in falsehood mongering.
As tired as American public must be with this unending false war in Afghanistan. the Trump method would leave America with no honour and with a huge toll of lives and treasure lost. Afghanistan has always been ungovernable except for warlords and factions and now Taliban and ISIS are a part of the equation. There is no easy solution but to conjour up a false treaty without merit to wave at the American public is only more bitter medicine for the public. Better to just declare victory and leave entirely with bag and baggage.
So what. Both parties haven't been honest about Afghanistan for 20 years.
1
Doesn't anyone watch "Homeland"?!?
Lets keep this simple: This is all that trump is capable. His goal is to claim he got us out of Afghanistan for talking points for his angry trump rallies.
The fact it does not have the USA primary interest at stake is of no consequence. So confidential details contrary to this narrative are not to be revealed.
5
Can't we find the truth to this and many other things 9 months from now?
Can't we rejoin the international community in global climate programs?
Can't we issue our own executive orders?
Can't we use the rule of law and the Justice Department to make sure nobody in this administration lied to Congress, abuse taxpayer funds, or acted above the law?
Can't we deny any oversight from any branch of Congresss we don't retain?
Can't we rebalance the Supreme Court if need be?
Can't we review and impeach unwarrented judges or ones that we misplaced ahead of others?
Can't we reverse EPA rules against our land? Consumer Protection and immigration laws that were changed?
Can't we unravel deals that were not in our country's best interests?
Of course we can. We have a lot of work to do when we get there.
8
@RidgewoodDad Follow your logic - can't we rewrite the Constitution as we want?
Who? Republicans? You already have.
1
Trump doesn't know or care about all the young Afghan girls and women being educated to grow a future. He hasn't included educated Afghans in the process nor the elected Afghan president who is now being challenged because Trump has undercut his authority. Bush involved us in nation building. But no politician tells the truth-- it takes time to grow a nation like a forest and it can't be done with guns. I hope Americans don't forget the young people of Afghanistan.
1
Secret understandings or not, Trump abandoned the Kurds without a second thought and he'll do the same to the people of Afghanistan if he calculates there's any immediate short term political benefit to himself.
7
If we see a Trump Hotel going up in Kabul, we’ll know what’s in those annexes.
All sarcasm aside, the annexes are likely designed to make Trump look good to his base, little else.
If we’re not ever going to get anywhere there, I suppose it’s better that someone like Trump makes a deal like this and brings our soldiers home, rather than someone with integrity and a conscience. Make Trump useful in some capacity for us rather than Putin.
5
Whatever is in the "secret" annexes, there is only one way this ends. The U.S. will withdraw its troops, the government in Kabul will collapse within a very short time, and the Taliban will once again control the country, after a 17+ year war, thousands of U.S. deaths, and hundreds of thousands of Afghan deaths.
The tragedy here is that this outcome was obvious ten years ago. And it should have been obvious when we invaded with a force too small to create and insure security, always treated the country as an afterthought, and made all the same mistakes we have made every time we try to do regime change. We seem incapable of learning.
6
Donald Trump will of course behave irresponsibly and ineptly in this as in everything, from his impulsive business decisions to his make-believe resolution of the North Korean threat.
However, the underlying reason for America's empty-handed retreat from Afghanistan after the sacrifice of so many lives can be found in the words of a certain expert on counterinsurgency and nation-building (I forget who it was) several years ago. In trying to help a foreign regime with such a project, he said, it's fatal to "care about it more than they do."
We should have disrupted Al-Qaeda's operations from that country as well as possible and then left. The rest was not a proper mission on which to send our troops. If we hadn't become distracted by Iraq to the point where Afghanistan came to be called the forgotten war, we might have noticed that sooner.
What lies ahead now has been prophesied by John Hickenlooper and others: a humanitarian disaster.
4
The art of diplomacy is getting one's way while making the other fellow think that it was their idea. Hard pressed to see how the Trump/Pompeo team in any way fits this bill. :(
13
As most Americans understand, Trump's "deals" are intended solely to make Trump look good, to be able to claim a win, and so to accomplish that end he hides the parts that make him look bad, It's easy to make up some cockamamie reason for not revealing all. Think of how he has been able to hide so much about himself and his supporters still vote for him---the least transparent president ever.
32
@shimr Actually he's the most transparent ever. Wysiwyg - and it ain't worth hawking the spit for.
When I think about this political deal which is meant only to give Trump a win I remember the suffering of the Afghan people under the Taliban rulers, the suffering of the people under Shariah law, the tortures and repression of women which included stoning for infractions. There has been some progress in that country though limited and the Afghan people will be left to fight for what they have gained against a corrupt government and a resurgent Taliban. Under trump we are not a very good example for that country to emulate.
But what is to be done to help this country. Military might like Vietnam can not win against fighters who disappear across a border. Perhaps the money we have spent on military can be funneled to agencies that support directly equal rights for women or loans to small businesses. The answer may lie in coordinating this help through allies if we still have any with Trump at the helm.
12
“But it’s incumbent on the United States to ensure that the Taliban meet their obligations under the agreement”
If we haven’t been able to defeat them on the battlefield, how can we “ensure that they meet their obligations”? Threaten them militarily?
I don’t have any solutions. There never have been any, there has never been an exit strategy. But let’s not pretend we are in any position to make demands as we leave. If we leave, the Taliban will do as they choose, and there is nothing we can do about it. Should we stay there to limit the reach of the Taliban? How long?
12
After all the lies that led to this war and the countless deaths of Americans and Afghanis, aren't we entitled to the truth in the end? This subterfuge only serves Trump's political interests and no the national interest, just as the war served Bush's political interests and not the national interest.
13
Americans are forced to die for, and pay for, this thing... The politicians hide their dirty hands in it all; that's their skin-in-the game.
'...the annexes give President Trump “enormous latitude to simply declare that the war is over and leave.” '
Well, sure. That's how we end wars, right? We declare victory and leave, or we just leave. We tend not to declare defeat and leave. It's the American way, then, and now.
6
We had this war won. We would have been the first military to invade Afghanistan and subdue it. We could have eliminated the Taliban's threat to the women of Afghanistan. But, Cheney wanted Iraq's oil, so we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, pulled forces out of Afghanistan to send them into Iraq, and lost the trust of the village elders who had risked everything to come to our side and oppose the Taliban. Once we lost those elders, we could never win. All we could do is stand and bleed, which we've been doing for years. Enough. This defeat isn't Trump's or Obama's, it Cheney's and so it's Bush Junior's.
66
@John Pace , beyond astonishing that the Democratic Party refused to impeach Bush and Cheney after so many millions of us worked on their behalf to regain control of the Senate and House of Representatives in the 2006 elections.
9
Sadly, GRH, it looks like "It is over" Biden is poised to do another such favor for them.
"Looking forward" keeps us backward.
2
No, it is Obama’s as well. He had eight years and failed utterly.
1
This agreement seems redolent of a somewhat earlier fraud: "Peace is at hand." Like this, also in the service of an election campaign. And, like the subsequent peace agreement with North Vietnam, the 14 months in the current pact seems curiously similar to the 2 years we seemed to give the North Vietnamese to hold off the inevitable invasion of the South. In other words, sufficient time to allow the US to leave with "dignity." And like the earlier debacle, the one is progress has little to show for thousands of dead and 2 trillion in treasure.
14
On Trumps recent visit to India the agreement with the Taliban was certainly a subject of discussion and perhaps some promises like the USA providing more arms to India. The India and Pakistan rivalry for influence in Afghanistan will enter into a new phase when we pull out. This will perhaps lead to more instability in the area between two nuclear armed powers. At least the instability in the mid-east between the Saudis and Iran, which was not helped by our 15 years in Iraq, does not involve nuclear powers - yet. All this is a good reason to elect Biden with his long experience in foreign affairs against Trumph's little experience or even interest.
4
I believe that Trump will get out of Afghanistan prior to the election so that he can say that he got us out. Regardless of the cost benefit analysis.
28
Anyone who believes the Taliban will share power after the US leaves is delusional, their stated aim has always been an Islamic Emirate. That said, I still agree with the Administration, because there is no hope of victory, and, like Britain discovered in the nineteenth century, withdrawal from Afghanistan is both necessary and inevitable.
What I hope doesn't happen is that withdrawal presages the collapse of US power and prestige in the world, analogous to the Soviet Union falling apart after her withdrawal from Afghanistan. With China on the rise, it is a frightening prospect for traditional allies that rely on a US security guarantee.
14
@Pelasgus The USSR was teetering at the time it withdrew from Afghanistan. We aren't teetering, and as long as we get Trump out of the White House, we can get back on track.
6
@Pelasgus , the collapse of US power and prestige in the world, analogous to the Soviet Union falling apart, is the tragic and sad but predictable path that the Bush-Cheney administration put the US on many years ago. With many bipartisan enablers from "across the aisle."
7
Shame on us for not learning from the Russian disaster.
1
Actually I really don’t care about the fate of Afghanistan. It is a money pit and sinkhole of lives and treasure. Getting out was the right thing to do 15 years ago. And if Liz Cheney has reservations about ending a war, that means we should just end the war. Hate to say it, but DJT is right on this one. I disagree that the US has an obligation to fix a country or ensure rights or whatever. The Afghans make those decisions for themselves. What we should do is isolate them completely if they descend into dictatorship. That doesn’t cost anything
9
@Bix no, DJT is not right. This is a more complicated matter than deciding that you don’t care about the fate of Afghanistan. What’s going on in Syria impacts what’s going on in Afghanistan, and Liz Cheney tightly has reservations about it. I’m not a Republican by the way. Not a fan of Cheney because she has given Trump a free pass to so whatever he wants. But she is right to express reservations.
4
Another GOP Presidenf gave us a similar document entitled: "Agreement on Ending the War and Restoring Peace in Viet Nam." As we all know, that document did not end the war or restore the peace. Why would we expect anything different this time? This war for the US will end with nothing to show for it. if we ignore history, and its lessons, we will continue to repeat the errors.
17
And precisely what would the high and the mighty who belong to the Times editorial board do instead? As much as we might wish, the United States cannot dictate morals and manners to the citizens of a foreign country (although we often try our hardest to do exactly this), nor in the end can we forever dictate who their rulers must be. When we get out, we finally leave up to the Afghans themselves who should rule their country, even if the eventual winners are parties we don't like or trust. It's time to get out and let the chips fall where they may. There is absolutely no sense in prolonging this war that we will never win. To salvage some dignity from this debacle, we should at least give refuge in the United States to all of those who helped us over these many years of war. No quota on refugees for our Afghan allies. We owe them this.
10
@Lotzapappa
And we are owed honesty. If we are leaving because we finally recognize Afghanistan is unwinnable......say it.
The truth will out. If as Cheney says, there are no valid ways to control the Taliban as we leave, say it. By remaining for 18 years that really is the only sane conclusion to draw.
Already Pompeo has been caught in one lie, saying that the agreement did not entail releasing some 5000 Taliban prisoners,...but it does.
This WH has zero credibility anyway.
6
@Susan I completely agree! But this is, unfortunately, seldom (I would almost way, never) never how wars end. There is always misdirection and obfuscation. None of the fine gentleman (or women) want to own that they were the ones who pulled the plug on an unwinnable war.
@Lotzapappa
How about publish the terms? A secret peace?
1
An observation from afar . . .
The secrecy of the annexes is likely due to their being nebulous.
Perhaps tRump learnt from his courting of North Korea that it’s better to keep his failed diplomacy/negations shrouded lest everyone see what had been proposed/promised and then not coming anywhere near fruition.
Just a thought ...
46
The secrecy is likely to protect a spineless Trump from criticism, but really do you imagine that the Taliban will honor anything we sign? They have proven to be a vicious fighting force with a very different moral compass from our own, and if we decide that we need to leave then in reality we just have to face up to the fact that we are leaving the Afghan people at the mercy of the Taliban. It’s a horrible situation, although I think most would agree that we could have far greater impact by investing that money in other efforts. We could have built high speed rail across the Americas, or funded major expansions in green energy and infrastructure.
27
@Jeff Rose
...but the military/industiral/surveillance/mercenary industry has its tentacles deep in the economy of all 50 states, and is a major campaign contributor...
14
Of course the annexes likely are vague and toothless.
When does a large military defeat a determined local guerilla force? Certainly that has not been our experience in Viet Nam and Afghanistan. Nor the experience of other nations' large armies.
In trump's mind it is fine to leave allies hanging in the breeze (as in Syria recently) so long as trump keeps his promise to get out of Afghanistan and can talk that up among the "promises kept" during the 2020 campaign.
I am not saying there would be any honorable way to leave Afghanistan, but seems trump did not even try hard to mediate and bring all parties to the table.
The softness of clauses in the hidden annexes may only prove that and bring shame to his negotiating prowess.
6
Thank you President Trump for all your efforts and that of your administration, to bring America's longest war to almost a close and bringing at least a few 1000 troop home so far and beginning a promising peace process.
When the Soviets were kicked out of Afghanistan by the Mujaheedins (freedom fighters), the Soviet puppet Nazibullah was left hanging in the central square in Kabul, Afghanistan. Earlier today the 2 American puppets Abdullah Abdullah and Ashraf Ghani each held their presidential inauguration. Quite a contrast between a humiliating defeat of the Soviets and before that the British and before that Alexander the Great and US troops beginning their withdrawal with the their heads held high for a job well done and a mission truly accomplished unlike Bush who shamefully declared mission accomplished when it was not and caused the deaths of 1000s of US troops in Iraq, including the brave Capt Khan the son of Mr. Khizr Khan.
I don't want know about the deal with the Taliban and I don't want to know about Trump's personal tax filing. I do want to know how Bush suckered the entire nation including the then editorial board of the NY Times into the regime change war in Afghanistan with the Taliban? I also want to know why Bush and Obama failed to even make a serious attempt to make peace with the Taliban, which in English means army of God? Who are the Taliban? First and foremost they are mostly Afghans. Their home is Afghanistan. They have no where else to go to.
5
2/2 The fact is, that the Soviet Union was invited to Afghanistan by the Afghan Communist Party to build infrastructure and empower women's rights, which at the time in mid seventies could present 50 percent female students at Kabul University. Thousands of female doctors were made by the soviets, and women were encouraged to date freely, and wear clothes of their own choice, in accordance with the socialist ideas. The US decided to support the Mujahedeen with arms and money, in order to prevent Afghanistan to become a socialist state, which resulted in the transformation of Mujahedeen to the Taliban, the same Taliban who later housed Bin Laden after the attack on US, destroyed the soviet built schools and executed women for adultery.
1
@Girish Kotwal , Bush suckered the nation, got bipartisan support, suckered the then editorial board, etc. because they like their shares in Lockheed to go up, to spend trillions on the F-35 fighter jet and then base it in the core of blue states, like Burlington, Vermont, with the cooperation and support of people like Patrick Leahy and Bernie Sanders, so long as they F-35 is not put near their homes in Greenwich, CT or their weekend houses in the Hamptons. Who cares if the basing of Lockheed's F35, the loudest jet ever built, negatively impacts the health and home values of the very demographics the Democrats pretend to care about? So long as tax dollars are laundered back to the politicians via the military-industrial complex, the Establishment seems happy.
2
@Girish Kotwal You can't know about what you want to know without access to documentation and records. The Trump administration's dealings with the Taliban are no different. We deserve to know what all out administrations have been doing.
Reminds me of some union recruiters of the 60s & 70s:
"just sign here, it doesn't mean anything"
11
This secrecy is wrong - just as was the Obama administration’s secret decision to grant to Iran exemptions from its obligations under the nuclear deal, to ensure that sanctions relief could begin.
1
@Ken M.
The Iran negotiations involved 6 parties, not just the Obama administration. All 6 had to agree on any and all parts of the agreement. Don't forget, the Republican Senate never ratified the agreement.
30
@John Harper
You are correct that the Obama administration agreed to the secret deal along with the other parties. You are correct that the Obama administration decided not to submit the deal (and it’s secret side deals) for Senate ratification. In short, Obama’s lack of transparency surely rivaled Trump’s and it should be recognized as such.
@Ken M. But trashing the Iran deal makes Iran a soon to be nuclear power.
Trump’s secret annexes are merely cover for another campaign promise.
2
OK, let's have members of the Bush family; members of the Cheney family, including Liz Cheney; members of the families of the NY Times Editorial Board; and members of the Rumsfeld families, among others, go to Afghanistan and enforce the agreement. Let's have them personally put their bodies and families where their mouths are. Let them impose democracy; the rights of women; elections; a constitution; and separation of church and state in Afghanistan.
The Editorial Board makes a nod to the waste in lives and treasure but apparently the trillions of tax dollars wasted and laundered over the last 18 years in Afghanistan are not enough. What the Editorial Board is asking for does not compute. Do they want the things they ask for, in which case parts of Afghanistan must no doubt remain a colony of the USA for an undetermined amount of time, perhaps many, many decades or more, and for US tax payers to spend trillions upon trillions more? To achieve the things the Editorial Board is demanding? Or do they recognize that the Bush-Cheney administration; and the Obama-Biden administration after them (shamefully the longest wartime prez and VP in US history) were wrong and it is time to get out of Afghanistan?
4
Leave it to Republicans and worse, Trump, to foul things up and waste a fortune in other countries, also many lives. Trump's book should have been titled, "The Art of the Steal." He can no more make a deal across borders than the man in the moon. I pity anyone who still believes him....
27
At this point, who's signature carries the most weight.
Horrifically, the world knows the taliban can not be trusted for anything but violence and death.
How many women will die because they want a better life in Afghanistan.
Mr Trump knows no truth other than what he says is the truth.
Yet, his falsehoods increase daily.
14
Let’s call this what it is: America has surrendered to the Taliban. They won.
156
I don’t think anybody won.
@Marshall
America hasn't won an armed conflict since WW2, except possibly Grenada.
All the wars since have been inventions of the Military/Industrial/Congressional complex to boost sales, (vote enhancing) employment and CEO compensation.
The Defense budget is the reason we can't have universal health care, great schools and gainful employment for all.
Cut out the waste, and 50% of the defense cost would evaporate.
5
I knew they won 15 years ago. Didn’t you? Didn’t we all really?
3
Surprise, Surprise !!
9
It makes him look bad, therefore is hidden.
I won't get a Nobel for that discovery.
21
"Why is the Trump administration keeping parts of its deal with the Taliban secret from the public?"
Because that's what they do with pretty much EVERYTHING! And so far, they've gotten away with it.
A serial pathological personality doesn't
suddenly stop doing what he's doing... unless he's stopped!
53
Trump tried to make a "deal" with North Korea without involving South Korea. Trump tried to impose a "deal" in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict without Palestinian involvement. Trump conducted an assassination on Iraqi soil without involving the Iraqi government. Now Trump is making a "deal" with the Afghan Taliban without involving the Afghan government.
Trump is definitely not gaining the hearts and minds of most peoples around the world, In fact he is setting those hearts and minds firmly against the US.
229
@Greg
I wonder if there is a reliable survey tracking how the US is perceived around the world, through the years?
I would wager that this perception has not improved under Trump (major understatement).
Sadly Americans as a whole are seen through the lens of their government's actions. Whether these citizens largely agree with the government's policies/decisions/actions or not is irrelevant to the image that the world has of the country. Trump's impact on the USA is definitely not limited to within the country's borders. Not sure that those who wish to "make America great again" or "keep America great" have any notion of America's perception in the world or even care.
10
In 2016, while running for the White House, Mr. Trump had a lot of nasty things to say about Obama administration dealing with "terrorists" and "Islamist" organizations. Isn't that interesting that now he is getting along so "perfectly" with the most vicious of all Islamist organization?
122
They are the least vicious terrorists. They confine their behavior to their own country and parts of Pakistan in contrast to ISIS and their creator Obama.
I suspect they release the annexes at the same time POTUS releases his tax returns.
24
My mother used to say: " We had a civil war in our country.
We should let every other country fight their own internal wars,
be they political or religious".
We accomplished nothing in that region, except making many
independent contractors very wealthy.
So sorry to all of the families who lost loved ones there.
Can you say Vietnam?
20
The plan must include some deal for Trump to build "beautiful" towers in Kabul.
16
@C.P.
It is indeed very possible that Trump wants the Taliban to 'do me a favor'. It is certain to me for his own benefit, not the country's.
8
Experience has shown us that anything Mike Pompeo is involved in is corrupt.
170
This is about trump's commitments to Putin.
It is a traitorous act.
And an insult to all who sacrificed life or limb for what was at one time, an important cause.
The taliban can never be trusted.
Unfortunately neither can trump, or the RNC.
We didn't want a Civil War. We just want our Country back.
62
"Americans ... want some assurance that the Trump administration has not simply given the Taliban license to break their pledges and restore their brutal dictatorship."
Under this current administration, no such assurance is possible. Trump walks away from his overseas alliances. He does not honor them. He does so on impulse, heedless of consequence.
Any doubt about this can be allayed by consulting with our former Kurdish allies in northern Syria or the leadership in Ukraine.
41
12 months from now a Taliban dictatorship will be in charge and women will have no rights.
23
@Lawrence
Well, one of Biden’s sons DID “sign up” for the fight in Afghanistan. After he returned to civilian life he went to work for the Obama administration and died from a brain tumor, leaving a young family. One of his other sons is now being vilified by the Trump administration—condemned without a trial, which used to be against the law in this country.
Will that do??
2
If Bush 2 had made his mission in Afghanistan the death of OBL, and not regime change, we would never have had the 18 year war, or this charade.
24
Trump has been in campaign mode from day one lying about his crowd sizes,the virus and just about everything else. Trump wants to tout ending the war in Afghanistan at any cost since he is only interested in winning re-election and would transfer the US Treasury to his campaign if he could get away with as when he loses faces the dire consequences of having LOSER next to his name on headlines around the world except FOX NEWS who may decline to call the election.
18
This agreement with the Taliban reminds me of Hitler's non-aggression pact with Stalin. The pact assured Hitler that he would not have to fight the Russians while he was busy conquering Europe. His secret plan was to fight the Russians after clearing the board of any defiant European armies.
But there was a secret annex to the agreement known only to Germany and Russia. In return for (temporary) peace with Russia, Germany revealed its intention to attack Poland and agreed to split the spoils with Russia. It was Hitler's attack against Poland that finally compelled France and England to declare war against Germany.
Yes, sometimes diplomacy requires keeping secrets. And sometimes war requires it too. But given Trump's dismal track record in dealing with foreign powers, I rather suspect that the US entered into these secret annexes with the Taliban to hide important facts from the American people.
Just another Trumpian riddle that could blow up in our faces any moment now.
29
Kind of Pentagon paper in Vietnam War. To the soldiers being fought against the Northern side, this is one more lesson. For the war in Vietnam the leaders had had very low spirit. Instead of leading the struggle they had profited themselves. The falling moral of the military had been affected and collapsed finally.
3
Look, who cares about Afghanistan, it is so far away nothing that starts on the other side ,( cough ahem cough) of the world can affect us here, we are building a beautiful wall, it's not if they have access to planes or host groups who have the backing of the Saudis... wait... maybe we should rethink this.
8
"But if Americans are ready to exit this war, they want to know that their government is at least leaving its Allies a fighting chance against a ruthless Islamist organization......."
Earlier today I saw a quote from Republican Senator John Kennedy, referring to Epstein's death in jail, that the "American people don't trust their government."
Why does the NY Times and Sen. John Kennedy know what Americans want? This American does generally trust his government and I'm ready for my government to unconditionally exit Afghanistan because it's quite obvious that we've lost another war we should never have started (ie: Viet Nam, Iraq and Afghanistan).
3
Would anyone be surprised if it didn't include an arms deal and a cash payment? Why keep it classified, it isn't like we haven't seen Trump sellout the Kurdish allies to get out of Syria?
I wouldn't be surprised if it sold out those Afghans who infiltrated the Taliban for the US effort.
16
My guess is that Trump threw the women under the bus, he'd do the same here as well if he could...
7
typically he or someone else pays them money, it is called catch and kill...in Afghanistan it is called.... actually the same thing.
3
"The State Department says the reason is to conceal details of military movements from, 'for example, ISIS.'"
Only a fool would be so naive to think that ISIS does not have any supporter among the Taliban leadership. Rest assured, anything that Taliban knows, so does ISIS.
There is more than a good chance that ISIS has been supporting the Taliban financially. One has to remember that, while ISIS has been in Afghanistan for more than a decade, there has been no military clashes between them and the Taliban. There are even those who strongly believe that, for Taliban to sign up the agreement, they had to first go to ISIS to get the blessings of the ISIS leadership.
7
I wonder what the odds are on the trump’s running away, if and when the virus, gets worse?
Rats leaving a ship?
4
He paid them off to not take over the country until the US leaves.
9
@Carl
We have a fool in charge who will believe such a bargain.
Kabul will be decorated with heads on pikes.
...."cheap political manipulation" is the raison d'etre of this administration. For Trump it's all about how things look, not how they are. That's all he cares about. And the Repubs are drowning in it.
7
I wonder which of his depraved lackeys will benefit?
3
Everything about this man is a con, a fraud and a lie.
If Trump is doing anything at all its to help Trump 1st, consequences be dammed.
18
The constitution clearly gives warmaking power to Congress. In what way is a deal ending the war that is kept secret from Congress not an impeachable offense?
5
@rick shapiro , unfortunately Congress refuses to ever take responsibility and repeatedly delegates all warming power to the Executive Branch because they know these futile wars are unpopular but they want the financial benefits of the military-industrial complex and laundered tax dollars coming back to their campaigns. Hence, why Congress keeps passing & reauthorizing the "Authorization for Use Of Military Force" legislation that delegates all authority to the President to start and fight virtually any war anywhere in the world based on nebulous threat of terrorism.
2
Until to Covid-19 crisis upset things, Trump was planning to parade about that he'd finally ended the unending war in Afghanistan.
Thus, it's far more likely than not that those two secret annexes effectively sell out both pro-US Afghanis particularly, Afghani women, to the Taliban.
Within months, if not weeks, the schools will shut down, particularly for girls and the veils will once again be demanded.
This is not a peace treaty -- it is a wholesale sell-out of the side we once supported. It actually adopts a tactic once proposed during the Vietnam War of simply declaring victory and leaving -- regardless of reality.
While we may all prefer that we finally leave Afghanistan -- let us not deny that the outcome of doing so will be very devastating for many Afghanis.
16
@George S. Then they should finally after 19 wasted years fight for their own country!
Knowing Trump and his minions, secrecy is their game in trade for all their criminal and seditious activities.
6
Secret Agent Man: Supersized Edition.
Sad.
2
@Phyliss Dalmatian Didn't you mean "Perfect Supersized Edition?"
Can we say “peace with honor” children? Nixon and Kissinger would be proud of Trump and Pompeo’s capitulation and surrender in Afghanistan. Trump will declare the United States and himself the “winners” and leave the Afghan peoples to the not so tender mercies of the Taliban. ISIS and Al-Qaeda will survive and live to attack us another day and we will sooner or later be left with another Trump mess to clean up. Russia gets the influence they want in the Middle East and Putin is well served. Just an aside, Putin’s setting himself up as president for life in Russia, maybe Trump will try that trick here also. Just a thought eh.
10
@John Chastain
If Trump should happen to get a Republican Congress in Nov., changing the Constitution as Putin did is a virtual certainty. That may very well be part of the deal between them.
2
People say Trump is bringing the troops home, but when he pulled the troops from Syria, thus leaving the Kurds to fend for themselves, he turned around and sent the troops to wealthy Saudi Arabia, a country that can afford to take care of itself.
12
Remember when Afghan women expressed great concern that the Taliban would again let the water close over women?
Bring US troops home in exchange for letting the Taliban crush women? Not hard for this administration to throw women under the bus, again.
47
That's because either:
a) There actually isn't any meaningful deal with the Taliban
b) There is a deal, but Trump is clueless about what is in it, since all he cares about is being able to tweet about it
16
Erik Prince refused to work on the cheap. Donald didnt know who else to call...
6
All we need to know is that the deal is a great deal, a spectacular deal, probably the greatest deal ever arranged to end American involvement in a conflict overseas. And, it’s better than Obama could have ever achieved because Joe Biden is a covfefeian, from Covfefe.
8
There are many members of the Taliban who will gladly share their copies of the annexes with ISIS, so it's a wonder that the State Department is trying to fool the American people with that lame excuse.
Note that Trump chose not to make this deal a treaty, probably because he wanted no Senators to read those annexes. It's full bug-out mode for the US military without even the "decent interval" of several years that Nixon and Kissinger arranged between our retreat from Vietnam and conquest by the Communists.
6
I am I ignorant? What gives us the right to make an agreement with the Taliban on our own? Where's the declaration of war? How about the country's government? This is bizarre.
8
The same happened to South Vietnam.
2
This is the Vietnam "peace" deal all over again. Like the Vietnamese communists, the Taliban defeated us and our Afghan puppets. Trump, like Nixon, wants out using a similar face-saving farce. History will repeat itself: Afghanistan is foredoomed to fall to the Taliban.
7
The Taliban win and Trump declares victory.
13
"The war in Afghanistan has cost the United States far too much in lives and treasure — 2,400 service members killed, $2 trillion spent — to be used for cheap political manipulation." Except that's exactly what it is being used for. It is blatantly transparent that Trump will declare the war over as reelection ploy. Everything he does and says between now and November will be in aid of that objective.
20
Because it's a surrender. - with a few vague conditions.
17
Is there anyone in the State Department, Defense Department, or the White House who has ever cracked a book about the history of Afghanistan? From Alexander the Great to the Russians, the Afghans have bided their time waiting for the withdrawals. The US is just another notch on their belt.
25
@romac
Yes, "The Man Who Would Be King" comes to mind....
5
@romac , or the NY Times Editorial Board for that matter? This was written on the wall since the very beginning. Bush-Cheney should have had a limited operation to take down OBL instead of trying to turn Afghanistan into the 51st state of the USA.
1
@romac
I read "Charlie Wilson's War" by George Crile right after our invasion of Afghanistan.
Anyone reading this book would have come to the conclusion that invading Afghanistan is suicide for any country. Nobody wins, and things haven't changed in over a thousand years and never will.
1
So easy to get in, so hard to get out. Seems to be a characteristic of U.S. military adventures.
1
This is the story of the three years Trump has been president. His administration is either lying or hiding the truth. It's been that way since "the biggest inaugural crowd in history."
42
More LIES and corruption from Trump.
2
We’ve been sold another pig in a poke.
Donald is a joke, a failure and a miserable excuse for a human being.
Pompeo is a bigger thief than Trump.
More people are going to die, and the trump’s and his servants are going to make more money.
5
It won't matter too much because the Taliban will totally ignore all of it, just as we will. We will just be glad to be out. In 10 years there will be big hotels in Afghanistan and the tourists will flock there, just like Vietnam.
4
It's too bad Trump can't just cut and run from the coronavirus, since he's getting really good at it.
4
If it was a good deal, he would be showing us details and crowing about it.
Is anybody tired of winning yet?
16
The President needs cover in order to bring the troops home. The Taliban will retake control of the country after we leave, but it won't be a haven for terrorists to attack America. The farmers there will resume the cultivation of poppy, that will flood the west with heroin, which will be the biggest challenge the west will face. Mr. Trump would love to declare victory and leave with a peace dividend, especially if it could come before the election.
You want you troops home or not? Then accept the deal and you’ll have most back in 14 months. It’s that simple.
4
@BJ so they were there to what end?.
4
@Eric Martens , they were there to the end of making Bush-Cheney and Obama-Biden and their associates in the military-industrial complex lots of money. Launder tax dollars in a nebulous war against "terrorism" to keep the US on permanent war footing in the wake of the end of the Cold War. It's nothing bigger than that.
2
We do know that Afghanistan and the Taliban likely have nothing to offer about the Biden family.
However, it is probably a good guess that :
1. A Trump Tower in Kabul might be in the offing
2. The Taliban is funneling some Saudi money to help Trump reduce his considerable his debt load. The man's business is levered up to his ears.
3. Imran Khan has promised him a cheap land deal in Islamabad
4. The Taliban have offered him cheap protection in the Hindu Kush range were he to be thrown out of our country?
5. The Taliban shares a common dislike for Mexicans ?
Or all of the above.
6
like everything else he does, It is set up to appear like a real deal, but it simply lets "T" claim victory without actually having one. It looks good for low information voters.
8
The President has already told the American people that the Taliban have covenanted to "kill terrorists." Presumably this is not a suicide pact, but if he is pretending that this category includes ISIS, does he wish us to adore another lie, or pray we can survive it?
2
"Who are you to ask me about my deal with the Taliban?! I can do whatever I want! And the deal is whatever I say it is! Just like the number of people infected with the coronavirus is whatever I say it is! Get over it!"
BTW: Does a bunch of drunken scribbling on a Mar-A-Lago cocktail napkin really qualify as an international "deal" now?
7
What ever the final deal, you can count on money going into the Trump coffers.
Donald Trump, the abomination.
16
I suppose we must leave this hopeless country, but be prepared for images of Afghans leaping onto the skids of the final departing helicopters. I hope millions of Americans will mail those photos to Rumsfeld, Cheney and Wolfowitz, the arrogant self-righteous jerks who sent us down the path to inevitable defeat.
22
@Tone A BIG, SAD "AMEN" TO THAT!
1
@Tone ....and don't forget to include close friend of the Saudis George W Bush...happily spending time on his new hobby painting pictures at home enjoying his cushy retirement. He caused so much loss and destruction, he & Cheney and their Neo-con friends should have been tried as the war criminals they are. Where is the justice?
Trump continues to accuse Obama of “ bribing “ Iran, for returning their OWN Money.
How much CASH are the Taliban receiving, Donald ???
And Taxpayer Funds, undoubtedly.
22
So true..and perhaps I'm indeed late to the 'game' when I opine that..to me anyway it was obvious, from the beginning, that promises were made to the young North Korean (jong Un) in the way of 'grease'..and those 'perks' if you will, have grown stale with the young tyrant, thus his expansion of threats, bluster and tests(?)....
1
Yet another Trumpian steak that’s all sizzle. Now how did his steak venture pan out? Oh yeah....
3
It must be like his coronavirus plan - essentially no details. Essentially non-existent.
The Homeland show on tv is way ahead of him.
Hey prez - you better check on what Pakistan is doing...
4
As long as they stop trying to kill us--who cares. Find something important to editorialize about.
2
Yeah what’s thousands of lives, trillions of dollars, and nothing to show for it? Right Jonathan?
6
@D. R-K it is called sunk cost. We should not have went in. But if we were gonna go - burn the nests of the terrorists. Fought the battle ourselves in Operation Anaconda and left before the smoke cleared 19 years ago.
The annexes are blank pages so anything is a winner for the Liar.
That is how a Grifter cheats.
8
Why is the Trump administration keeping parts of its deal with the Taliban secret from the public? Because it is opaque and doesn't portray Trump as the great peace-maker, an image that he wants to promote during this election year. As usual, it is all about him and how he will be perceived.
5
No annexes. No tax returns. No witnesses. No meeting notes. No subpoenaed documents. No unredacted Mueller report. No transparency. No democracy.
600
@W.A. Spitzer Or, in other words, lies lies lies lies lies.
43
@W.A. Spitzer
If it's classified, you aren't entitled to it. Not everything on that list is classified so don't huff and puff. However, you certainly aren't entitled to the annexes. Nor are journalists.
@W.A. Spitzer Let's not pick sides based on political correctness. However Trump gets us out of Afghanistan should be fine with all Americans - Democrats & Republicans. Two trillion dollars, 2,500 American lives countless forever casualties. Think about what an investment of two trillion dollar investment America could have done? Instead we invest in our Military Industrial Complex. Sad!
2
Crafted to give trump a quick exit strategy whether or not the Taliban complies? But of course--what did you expect?
142
Secret deals, secret plans, secret wars; Sounds like Nixon.
68
Wait, wait, wait a minute. The editorial page welcomes de so called 'peace deal" that is not a peace deal, but now says not to know about the whole agreement or annexes? Please, tell me you are joking. President Obama made public the agreement with Iran. So if not even you know all the details, how can the public have any expectations, aside from the troops getting out of Afghanistan, on this deal made by the moron president before an election?
7
@Frank Lopez we leave. The end. No longer our problem. The deal could have been written on a dinner napkin with room for lots of signatures.
"Trump Madrasas" with Ivanka spas???
8
Is one of them a codicil that demands 20% of all heroin sales go to his re-election campaign?
76
"The war in Afghanistan has cost the United States far too much in lives and treasure — 2,400 service members killed, $2 trillion spent — to be used for cheap political manipulation." Hahaha, NOTHING is beyond Trump's capacity for cheap political manipulation - that is all he has done for three years. Well, that and a lot of stealing public funds for his personal accounts.
96
@Jason Shapiro
But look at the brite side_- all those new, expensive weapons of mass destruction made by Boeing and who knows who else? (# why we don't have $$ for medicare for all.) by keeping wars going we could actually test our weapons in the field. I wonder what will happen with the heroin crop -- or is it all oxycontin and fentanyl for the US addicts without medical insurance. Anyone who doesn't recognize the huge corruption in the USA is willfully blind.. but so far as leaving Afghanistan-- and anyone who believes the Taliban will keep their word about anything is really naïve... No sense in staying there. horrible place altho they used to have nice jewelty.. Do they still play polo with heads?
I feel bad for the decent people we are abandoning... but decent people don't seem to find their place or power in this world. so we get Biden versus Trump. Which is worse??
1
We’re going to leave, no matter what, that should be obvious to everyone by now. There is no right or wrong, good or evil, there is only goodbye.
93
@Brendan Varley
I’m a US Army veteran of the conflict in Afghanistan. My unit worked hand and hand with local nationals who were instrumental in creating a more peaceful life for the people of Kandahar Province. Many of them had bounties on their heads, specifically because they were working with us against the Taliban.
What happens to US regional allies after the US withdraws is entirely a consequence of what the US does or does not do. Abandoning our allies to whatever horrors will be brought upon them by the Taliban is unconscionable to me. The level of indifference that Americans have to the people who have been fighting with us for the last 18 years is truly disappointing. And thats not to mention all of the sacrifices made by American forces. What was it all for?
My heart is broken with sadness, and rage. I mean that as someone who witnessed those sacrifices being made by American service members and Afghan people first hand.
To see my fellow Americans so cavalier and indifferent to all of that, it’s hard to describe.
143
@Austin Ouellette , it's a tragedy and most Americans feel the pain and sadness and rage. Those feelings of pain, sadness and rage from your fellow country-men are not directed toward the American service members nor the Afghan people who worked with them. But rather toward Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Obama, Biden, etc. who insisted on trying to turn Afghanistan into the 51st state of the USA, wasting trillions upon trillions of dollars that could have better been used for domestic investment, infrastructure, etc. There were no doubt many small wins and advances that too many Americans are not aware of. Differences made on behalf of the lives of individual Afghans. But, from 30,000 feet, the sacrifices, what it was all for, unfortunately, was to squander the treasure of the US and overextend the US taxpayer and future taxpayer for decades, in order to financially benefit the military-industrial complex right now (or over the last 18 years).
The writing was on the wall from the very beginning. It is not known as the graveyard of empires for nothing.
18
@Austin Ouellette my heart is broken too. I have friends who still grapple with what they witnessed in Afghanistan, and they always will. The Taliban can not comprehend peace. The idea of arming the Taliban to fight ISIS is unconscionable. I am so disappointed with our country right now. Thank you for your service. Thank you for your sacrifice. You are not forgotten. Even if it feels like it, there are many of us who are on your side and understand that what you gave in this war is far too precious to forget.
23
Once again, America has crafted an imprecise solution to a true conundrum without all the stakeholders being part of the creation. And, we've classified significant parts of the agreement because we are embarrassed at what we signed up to do. When will we learn? This is really not rocket science but it isn't easy, either. All the stakeholders have to want to negotiate a solution and so far a clear and precise signal has been lacking. I spent eight years as a contractor in support of US Forces and watched much the same sort of thing unfolding in front of me. No clear strategy that endured. No clear leadership by the real head of the Country Team, the Ambassador, and a series of tactics that kept changing to try to keep pace with a changing strategy and changing stakeholders. The sorry truth is that we're spending billions to make no significant progress. Why? Because, first and foremost, the leaders of the various factions in Afghanistan do not want progress. How do I know this? By the lack of progress since 2002. What has instead happened is a massive "gathering." Ministers and generals have "gathered" and spent their "gatherings" on, among other things, multi- million dollar villas on Palm Island in the UAE. American and NATO leaders have turned a blind eye. Shame on them! As sad as it is to say, it's time to tell the Afghan leaders that their moral failures to clean up their act have finally been enough. We're through. Done and dusted.
8
@MonopolyMan71 A savvy, clear-eyed assessment from someone who has worked in Afghanistan and understands their cultural embrace of devious ways - the cold-blooded Afghan genius for conspiracy and betrayal, about which Hamid Karzai boasted and for which his granular nation is known as the graveyard of empires. The next one to be buried there is ours.
Did the Taliban agree to the pipeline the US wanted in 2000?
Did the Taliban agree to preserve opium production levels instead of eradicating the whole crop?
2
I don’t trust trump any more than I trust the taliban or isis. He’s surely sold us out. Once again.
116
Who care?
The annexes could simply say, "We're leaving. Do what you want."
And that would be okay.
If they want to live in the Middle Ages, that's their business.
No more American deaths and no more $45 billion per year outlays for Afghanistan.
Just maintain the ability to hit ISIS and/or Taliban with airstrikes or limited insertion of special forces in case they are foolish enough to threaten the U.S.
6
Afghanistan is theirs to fix. Remember, we went there to find Osama and that was it - only to have Bush Jr. let his escape from Tora Bora.
5
Two Annexes? Too perfect!
2
I don't accept anything out of Pompeo's mouth.
Everything is done by this Administration for selfish political interest or money.
134
Personally, I don't care how the government ends its foolish military occupation of Afghanistan. Stop killing random illiterate poor people who want you out of their country now, period.
I do care that the current plans for troop reductions will take our military footprint there down.. to exactly where it was when President Obama left office. Which will be basically where it was when George W. Bush left office, and where it was before the media cheer-leaded Afghan Surge 1.0 in W's second term.
Just put everybody on helicopters and blow up whatever weapons don't fit on board. It won't make one iota of difference.
17
many might not care if we depart and the remaining situation devolves into chaos ala iraq , syria . but what if it devolves into a modern killing field ikeing cambodia post vietnam ? are we prepared to live with the stain and instability.
this sounds like another developer deal in which the details are slim and all that matters is someone eventually cuts a check to somebody - so what if the foundation leaks and the roof might blow off. its not our problem anymore
2
@bob so what, we all saw this coming 20 years ago and any Afghans stupid enough to work with the US, well, ...
2
Is this somehow shocking to anyone ever??? Shady, back alley deals are the hallmark of this administration & not for the benefit of the American people. This country has a ton of blood and money invested in this God-forsaken country. We, at the very least, have the right to know how this concludes IN detail. No secrets. Not this time. We are 8 months away from a real solution to this administration and its lies.
14
Just like the black out when we were bombing and invading in Cambodia. Everyone there (especially) and all over the planet knew it.
Lies, obfuscation, deceit, and people dying for no reason when the end result is tabulated.
It's Nixon only worse.
5
@Rick Tornello The only pol worse than nixon is trump, and the only pol worse than trump is nixon, and the only pol worse than nixon is trump, and ... and ... well, maybe toss W in there as well. Toss him somewhere
1
Was the chief Administration negotiator par excellence, Intrepid Jared, also involved in this non-starter, diplomatic bungling also? If not, better fly him to Kabul immediately!
3
How do we allow this to continue with Trump not Telling Us Everything? Oh, right, McConnell’s Senate.
4
Of course we'll never know the truth about Trump's pact with the Taliban. Just add his lie about this to the 16,000 lies he's made since taking office.
I lived through the Viet Nam era. And anyone who did so should have understood that there was to be no "victory" in Afghanistan. The fact is, Dubya got us into that war because he and a large portion of our citizenry were angry after 9/11, and wanted to strike back against any brown-skinned people in the Middle East or Central Asia. Never mind that these disastrous actions were a reckless response to the 9/11 hijackers, most of whom were Saudi nationals.
And this doesn't matter to Trump and his supporters, either. They were just were glad to see "his military" kill large numbers of brown skinned people. They thought they were "striking back", but had no idea exactly what - or who - they were striking. And they didn't care. And they still don't.
Fast forward to today. We've lost several thousand U.S. service men and women in Afghanistan. Tens of thousands of their citizens have been killed, as well. We've spent into the billions of dollars there these past two decades. All for nothing.
Trump voters need to grow up. They need to understand that there is no "success" for large scale U.S. military operations in parts of the world we, as a nation, are wholly ignorant of. To kill brown skinned people - no matter the cost - is insane foreign and military policy. But this is all Trump voters have ever wanted.
364
@Orion Clemens Let's not get lost in revisionist politics here. We went to war in Afghanistan because that's where Bin Laden and his lieutenants were training and hiding. That made sense after 911. As someone who grew up during Vietnam, and watched us bomb from on high in the first Iraq War and later Yugoslavia, I remember how fearful the US was sending actual troops that could be killed in Afghanistan. Our subsequent incursion into Iraq was what wasn't justified by the facts.
22
@Orion Clemens
Numbers I've seen that seem reliable call out 4,424 American service members being killed in Iraq/Afghanistan and associated conflicts. 4,275 of those killed were men and 149 were women. Saying "thousands of men and women" gives a false sense of that proportion. If you want to convey an accurate impression, try "more than 4,000 men and more than 100 women have made the ultimate sacrifice for their country and the Constitution." But to be even more respectful by not injecting gender politics into it , just say "service members." None of them should have died for this.
11
@outandemployed It never made sense to become involved in Afghanistan: many countries have invaded, NONE have succeeded. W's people put us in there in complete ignorance of history.
38
Diplomacy isn't a public process. Never has been, never will be. Will the Taliban live up to their promises after we leave? Who knows? If they don't what will we do, invade again? Repossess their goats? Freeze the bank accounts of guys living in caves? Main thing is that we are out of there. Thousands of years of history have established that invaders of Afghanistan are never successful.
61
@Mike F. True, as long as hiding information in the agreements is done only so that the Trump administration can claim success they have not achieved. Lives have been lost and must not be dishonored.
25
@Mike F. The "main thing" may not be that we are (supposedly) out of there. A more main thing is the American people's trust in their government. Their government has been lying to them ever since our first misadventurist step in suffering Afghanistan. If trump and co. are continuing this same string of endless lies, that says something about us as a nation
27
@Ed Cone, the government has been lying to the American people for a lot longer than that. Try since at least President Kennedy's assassinations and the subsequent lies from the FBI and CIA to the Warren Commission (as Warren Commission member and House Majority Leader said, they were "lying their eyes out"); LBJ's lies about Gulf of Tonkin and Vietnam War; Nixon's Lies; more lies about the Kennedy assassination when Congress convened the House Select Committee Investigation into Assassinations and CIA lied about who George Joannides was, directly to Congress, etc. Lies from the Reagan-Bush administration about Iran-Contra. This all predated Trump.
13
Do you mean Trump knows the actual outline and details in the agreement? He will call it ‘perfect’ and ‘fantastic’ but I’ll bet he didn’t get past Page 2 of the agreement. He will discover the details when Fox & Friends starts to talk about it.
578
@Bascom Hill:
You give 45* too much credit—bet he didn't get past the first paragraph on page 1 of the agreement. If it's not all about him, so he's not interested
49
@Claire :
No, just the title and then he looked to see if there were any pictures.
6
@Bascom Hill -- You forgot to mention that Trump will call the agreement "beautiful."
7
The Trump Taliban Hotel!
4
It may well be time to exit Afghanistan.
But attempts to keep part of the agreements secret - that is not acceptable.
(Sarcastically) Are the Taliban reps being asked to sign non-disclosure agreements? NDAs are all the rage now... And the President often finds them desirable.
Will this end up being another of those situations where Americans learn the details through Russian leaks rather than from our own government? It's unlikely these secrets will be so closely guarded that they will really remain unknown - but it may well end up that Americans are among the last to find out, since our government will not share details with citizens.
11
If it was good, they wouldn't keep it a secret.
For those too young to remember, after we left Vietnam, came the "boat people".
For the millions of afghans we are abandoning to medieval horror, we tried.
111
It doesn't matter what's in the treaty or its annexes. The Taliban's view of the process has been the same since Oct., 2001: "Let us know when you want to leave, and we'll agree."
16
The Taliban will undoubtedly seize Afghanistan at their first opportunity. So be it. Winning in Afghanistan is our latter day Vietnam. We left Vietnam fully knowing the communists would seize south Vietnam. It is no different here.
76
@NOTATE REDMOND
"No different" except for the differences.
The VN Commies didn't kill entire villages like the Taliban, or the Cambodian Commies. We're not talking about our ivory tower lives, we're talking about the live of the people left behind.
11
I had friends die in Vietnam and Afghanistan. Political wars have no chance of a win: we generally support corrupt governments who simply aren’t communist. While our current President courts them.
Vote this November!!
31
Don't forget that US corporations now trade with Vietnam at a significant profit. Ho Chi Ming, North Vietnam's leader assisted US forces during WWII in fighting the Japanese. He knew our Declaration of Independence and expected our help after WWII to escape France's colonial rule, but we gave Vietnam back to France. North Vietnam never oppressed women, never cut off hands, or closed schools.
The Taliban are quite different. Still Americans have a difficult time accepting or understanding non white, and non Christian cultures.
18
They are secret because they actually say “we’re outta here and we’re cutting our losses” and that allows the president to say “I have won the war and peace has been proclaimed throughout the land.” If the president published the conditions for all the world to see it limits the variety and number of lies he can commit.
70
Knowing trump his "Taliban plan" is probably as detailed and as viable as his plan to curtail nuclear bomb development in North Korea or his plan to contain the coronavirus or his plan to build the wall, create jobs and provide affordable great health care to all Americans. And how about his infrastructure rebuilding plan, Trump remains smoke and mirrors.
316
Creating a plan and brokering its acceptance and implementation is hard work. Throwing ineffectual vagueries over the fence and claiming victory is more Trump’s speed.
9
The war has been over for a long time and it was time to leave along time ago. Who care about the details, get out now and eliminate all funding and aid money.
10
Nothing surprising here, more secrecy to keep the citizens awareness of this faux Administration's capricious behavior under cover. Two years from now Afghanistan will likely be under Taliban rule. And a year after that, we'll be where we were just prior to 9-11.
Afghanistan will be another safe haven for a multitude of terrorist groups.
153
Thanks to Bush and Obama. Trump hopefully will extract us from this mess.
@cherrylog754 we have plenty of bombs. Time for a cordon sanitaire.
"Taliban leaders pledged not to cooperate with terrorist organizations that target the United States or to let them use Afghan territory,"
Good luck with that one! At any rate, they'll just use Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Pakistan, Syria, Iran, Somalia, Mali, Niger, .. I'm sure I'm missing a few others..
78
Like Marilago
10
Now the secret annexes can be told: he has agreement in principle to open a "Trump Taliban" hotel and golf course co-owned by bin Salmon.
32
I honestly do not think either Trump or Pompeo care if the Taliban keep their end of the agreement or not.
While I disagree with the US having every entered Afghanistan to being with... we did.. and it falls well into the category of "you break it you fix it".
Trump simply wants to have the campaign slogan of "I got the US out of Afghanistan".
379
@Chuck In other words, the Trump/Pompeo version of "peace in our time." Anyone who learned 20th-century European history learned how that turned out.
Trump should stick to the other spelling of "peace."
20
@Chuck
I disagree about us going in to Afghanistan. See 9/11. What would you have had us do?
Redirecting or focus from there to Iraq, thus destabilizing the entire Middle East, was where we went horribly wrong....and Trump was all for it at the time.
17
@John Brown But he isn't spending the political capital, he's trying to conceal it. Spending it would be doing it transparently and taking the heat. Trump is doing it as he does everything, swimming in lies and fakery.
35