See what you can for your country, not what your country can do for you.
2
Follow the money. We all know it is true. Bernie wants to take from those earning more and give it to those making less. Simple as that.
Those who support Biden or Trump largely know who pays the bills. They are not keen on paying for Bernie's handouts. He's like the teenager who's always asking Dad for money.
I'm not sure who has the right answer but taking from one group and giving it to another is divisive just as much as a huge economic imbalance is divisive.
4
Thank you for finally writing this story. Most of the Times' coverage of Sanders has been fairly negative (with some notable exceptions). There are many of us who feel like the Democratic establishment abandoned us long ago.
Sanders has received a lot of negative coverage regarding his anger. It may be hard for reporters and opinion writers with their employer-provided health insurance and decent salaries to understand his anger. I understand it very well, because it is my anger and that of many of the people who have realized that the moderate wing of the Democratic Party are not their advocates.
One of the first things I noticed about Sanders in 2016 was that he talked about the working class, not just the middle class. I was sick of hearing about the trials of the middle class, when I do not consider myself middle class.
How can those of us who can barely get by trust Biden? The 2005 bankruptcy law he supported made it impossible to get out from under credit card debt. He supported NAFTA which threw many people out of work. He takes money from insurance executives who are against any type of healthcare reform.
If Biden is the Democratic nominee, I will certainly vote for him. However, I have no illusions about where his priorities lie.
12
Hard to figure, Bernie, how you expect to win the primary competition for the nomination - no less the presidency - if your focus your message to disaffected youth and the working class. In America, peeps reach for an upward trajectory; the costs may be burdensome, say paying off student loans, and many may be hobbled for half a lifetime by student loans they willingly took on to achieve their goals; but rather than choose Democratic Socialism, i.e, the mommy state, in its most benign form (ala Denmark), American values have been and are centered on self-reliance. That's why the Bern will be returned to Vermont, post Democratic convention, his message once again rejected.
2
This point can't be emphasized enough: almost every progressive candidate in whom Dems invested tremendous time, money, & energy in 2018—Beto O’Rourke in Texas, Andrew Gillum in Florida, Stacey Abrams in Georgia— lost. Almost every progressive initiative was voted down. There is no progressive majority in America and never will be. And there certainly is no progressive Electoral College coalition in the US that could get to the needed 270 votes. The Democrats need candidates who will bring us together not tear us apart. The left is a divisive force and often out of step with voters. For example, it's a cheap shot to say that if you oppose more illegal immigration then you must be racist or xenophobic. In fact, it's ridiculous. Voters are strongly against any legislation that would increase the flow of illegal immigration. But Sanders is for policies that not only decriminalize illegal immigration but encourage it. He & his progressives allies are on the wrong side of these issues. Mainstream American voters will NEVER cast their ballot for any candidate who supports increased illegal immigration. We're at the point where I think progressives should leave the Democrats and form their own party. There's no way to keep them happy. We can win with or without progressives. We can't win without swing voters. Last week's election proved that Sanders isn't the candidate that can attract these voters. But Biden can. Because of this, he has a good chance to win in 2020.
6
I’m a 54-year old woman making $180k/yr, and I am voting for Bernie Sanders.
I come from and still consider myself a member of the working class, because as the daughter of immigrants, wealth has always been fleeting, and true prosperity unattainable, no matter how much I work. Essentially, if you’re a worker—even a white collar one—you’re part of the working class. And if you’re a freelancer, you know $180k this year could become $30k next.
I entered the middle class by joining a union at 13, having a kind boss who paid for my last 3 years of college, and having nonprofit Blue Cross/Blue Shield health insurance. I don’t recall paying a bill or premium in that time.
Those three bolsters helped me escape lower-middle class drudgery and carve out a decent life for myself, but between helping family & juggling a 30-year career that’s seen 6 major economic downturns, sustained job losses, market instability, and a further squeeze out from the labor pool as I age, I have no sense of financial security or hope for prosperity. My only hope for a stable retirement is my small biz. But banks won’t loan me money. I still don’t have real health insurance. Can’t afford to buy an apartment in NYC. Am fearful for my future prospects.
I fully relate to those struggling more than I am, and agree that Bernie is our only real hope for a sound, stable, long-term healthy future.
10
I like Bernie and his supporters. But when Bernie is asked how he will get his promises through Congress, he has that stock answer about so many zillion people joining in the demand for change -- and therefore a super-election landslide, I guess? Absolutely no experts believe this is at all realistic. More likely that Bernie would have less chance of winning, and far less chance of a democratic Congress.... Even Warren acknowledged we'd have to change the Senate rules to eliminate filibusters to get her program through -- assuming we could get a bare majority -- but as I understand it Bernie would not go out on that limb.... If you have been around awhile, you remember Obama and his message of hope and change, yet the progress was incremental, and then the idealistic voters were disheartened and didn't show up in 2010. So, we had a Republican House, and progress stopped.... And then there is Ralph Nader, who gave us George Bush instead of Al Gore. A huge difference between the two outcomes, for real human lives -- but to Nader, the idealist, not big enough to get out of the way. I'd love to see Bernie put his heart behind a winning ticket and mobilize his voters to elect a democratic Congress. Bernie people! Please keep fighting for your ideals, but don't let real human beings suffer by ignoring the difference a broad democratic win can make. We need you!
9
I am so tired of people saying that Bernie Sanders is divisive. He draws the line between those who have power and those who don’t. Unless you’re a lobbyist, a wealthy donor, or some bought-off puppet thereof (e.g., a pundit), then you’re not the establishment.
People under 45 were the majority of voters in 2018. Millennials and Gen Z are projected to comprise a 37% plurality of the electorate in November. The old guard of the Democratic Party is aggressively signaling that these people are not welcome in the party, then trying to command them to “vote blue no matter who”. It’s insane!
Young people vote when you give them something to vote for, rather than a bogeyman to vote against. That’s how Obama won. That’s how Kerry and Clinton lost. Just because they’re not turning out in droves in the presidential primary (most young people can’t even vote in them) doesn’t mean they can’t be turned out in the general election.
The notion that Biden will be able to work with Republicans to make deals is fantasy of the highest order. We have to win this election, next election, and the election after that. Win, win, win - and how are you gonna do that without a committed activist base?
87
@Seb Williams I wholeheartedly agree.
8
"I am so tired of people saying that Bernie Sanders is divisive...
Unless you’re a lobbyist, a wealthy donor, or some bought-off puppet thereof (e.g., a pundit), then you’re not the establishment."
The implication here that those many democrats supporting Biden fall into the above category is in fact quite divisive. People have different values and experiences, by categorizing and demonizing everybody whose views differ from ones own is no way to build a real movement to deliver substantive change.
I with maybe 70% of bernies positions and 50% of bidens, but so long as Biden has a better pitch for carrying and then getting 50 votes from the senate(I still presume only democrats here) he will have a better argument for electability and governing despite losing the moral high ground.
7
@Ryan
That is not what he said.
What he said was that the powerful in government right now are mostly corrupt, and that Bernie is willing to point that out.
Those that refuse to admit that our Constitutional Republic has been corrupted by obscene amounts of cash coming from global billionaires (many not even from America) are refusing to see the obvious.
It is impossible that a few thousand people are as productive as the other 7 billion people on the planet. That means that much of the wealth of billionaires is not really theirs. It's just that simple.
If you refuse to do that simple math, and think that all of the people saying that the working class are hurting are just making up stuff, you might as well vote for Trump, because the refusal of limousine liberals to understand that part and anger of the working class is tearing this country apart.
We are at the edge of Constitutional disaster, all's you refuse to say that Trump commits High Crimes on TV, or committed treason.
The idea that the system is not in crisis at every level is preposterous.
Open you eyes and see the obvious.
8
I suppose I 'm one who sees Bernie as my only hope, and it looks like it's not gonna happen. My healthcare costs will continue to rise, and college debt will continue to rise. It's true that Biden is better than Trump, because he's sane, and not a traitor to the country.
The morning after his Super Tuesday wins, health insurance stocks rose high. He is reportedly considering a J.P. Morgan exec for his cabinet. Oh goody.
I'll vote for him if I have to, but do not expect me to be excited. At all.
72
@LFK Yep. I'll be voting for him even though he and the Party have made it abundantly clear that they want to win without us so they don't have to feel remotely accountable to anyone but big donors. I've never missed a single election, for anything, and have always voted for Democrats. I worked on Capitol Hill for six years for slightly left of center Democrats. I don't think Bernie is a savior. He simply aligns with my values better than the others, so I'm voting for him. Despite all this, Bernie and supporters are treated as infiltrators, bros, gullible rubes, etc, when in reality it is the most racially diverse coalition of the campaign. The complete erasure and dismissal of his support is sad but predictable. If Biden doesn't win, I'm sure they'll blame him again, even as 5 million Obama voters disappeared and there are millions of eligible voters who stay home every election, many of them poor and non-white, because they don't think it makes very much of a difference in their lives (not far off).
13
@LFK Look, you are lucky you have healthcare. We did without healthcare for a few years. It was rough. When I broke my wrist we had to rob savings to pay for it. While Sanders may promise Medicare for All it takes the House and Senate to approve such a bill. How likely do you think this is going to happen? Put your effort toward putting the right person into the WH (the one who can oust the wannabe dictator) and for Democrats to win both chambers. Then, and only then can talks start about meaningful changes. If you have a Democratic President but a Republican Senate, you will have gridlock.
4
I'm disheartened by these comments. Why are we so quick to dismiss the very real decay of the middle class, widening wealth and income inequality, and the near-peril that so many Americans find themselves in? 57% of Americans can't afford a $500 emergency. Does that sound like the product of a system that is working for all of us?
If we don't acknowledge these folks and offer them bold reform then we will lose this election. We are ignoring the very real plight of our fellows and telling them to "bootstrap" their way out of it. Really? Shame on us. We need to do better.
126
@ClemT Well said. People are not informed of the real issues and Dem establishment likes to downplay those things you have rightly mentioned.
11
@ClemT
Biden has shown zero willingness to engage with the left of the party. He would rather "work across the aisle" with self-interested Republicans to "get things done" for the wealthiest of us than throw even a tiny little wishbone to help buoy the rapidly sinking middle and working classes. This is why Trump will win in spite of the coronavirus. The Democratic Party deserves to be thoroughly eviscerated for its malfeasance. Its constituents do not deserve the harm it has done and will have done in November by enabling Trump's agenda and his re-election.
16
@ClemT
I'm not seeing dismissals here of your claims. And I don't disagree when you say this isn't a system that is working for all of us. According to the numbers, however, Sanders and Biden supporters simply aren't that different. For example, the per capita average annual incomes of 2016 Sanders and Clinton voters were virtually the same. Presumably that has not changed. Yep, Sanders supporters are genuinely suffering, and, on average, they are suffering about as much as Biden voters. The differences must, to some degree, lie elsewhere. Some of those areas of difference have been reported on here. Self-identified "very progressives" are 92% white. Race is, for example, correlated with assumptions and expectations. Sanders voters are uniquely characterized, among Democrats, in surveys and studies, by the fact that they agree with the statement, "I would like to burn society to the ground." Sanders voters are significantly more susceptible to conspiracy theories. Those things are all based on credible studies and have been discussed here. This wouldn't be the first time we believed a mostly false tale about a populist candidate. By way of comparison, the 2016 voters for what's-his-name had per capita annual average incomes that were $10,000 higher. At the time, all of the scuttlebutt was about what's-his-name's suffering, working class base. As it turned out, the strongest motivator for his voters was not economic issues but rather racial resentment.
2
In 1980, Ronald Reagan ran with the meme, "Are you better off now, than you were four years ago." And thus started the 40 yr American theme of "It's all about me."
So many of the comments here reflect that thinking. We all know that college and healthcare cost money, and are not free. What Bernie supporters are saying is tax money should be prioritized to give Americans the same benefits that other first world countries have. If you can't see the inequality, you're not paying attention.
Americans have exchanged the quest for the common good into what's in it for me. Which means that our children will not have a better economic life than their parents. I got mine, now you get yours, is killing us.
95
My parents were born in rural southern Italy, my father did not have running water or electricity until the early 1970s. My mom came over early, settling in a company town in West Virginia with her five other siblings. My family worked in coal mines and made cement. They moved up to CT and my grandfather, who spoke virtually no English until he passed away in his 80s, got a job at the pencil factory in town. This job provided for six kids (two opting for college), a modest home, the occasional vacation. This type of story is virtually impossible today everywhere in the country.
Those days are simply gone. Meager wage gains are being eaten by an affordability crisis. My grandparents never worried about paying for medication, despite the fact that both took pills from their early 50s-onward. It wasn't an issue. My parents teetered on the brink of financial ruin over health insurance costs for somewhere around a decade. People my age don't go to the doctor. They're terrified of the cost. They have nearly useless health insurance. None of them expect to retire at a reasonable age or have very much in savings. Then I hear Joe Biden say he has "no empathy" and "give me a break" about anyone who dares to suggest that maybe things aren't THAT much better for younger people and people wonder why the generational divide is so stark? The contempt many have for pretty much anyone under 45 when Biden's generation passed awful bills is really unbelievable.
8
Bring back Warren to win.... NOW!
Sanders/Warren 2020
1
Democracy, unlike religion is not built on faith. The idea that Bernie Sanders or Donald Trump or anyone else is the Messiah is a false choice.
There will be two very flawed politicians running for President. You do the best you can to make an informed decision.
I'm pretty tired of hearing that people didn't like Hillary Clinton or John Kerry. What does like have to do with it?
We need to roll up our sleeves and work for Democrats at the top of the ticket and down the ticket. We need candidates who can win. I'm not a fan of my Conservative Democratic Senator in Arizona. Compared to Martha McSally it's a very easy choice.
Joe Biden is an easy choice against Donald Trump. If Bernie losses MI tonight he and his supporters should unite behind Joe Biden. Joe Biden isn't perfect, he's very flawed but he's miles better than Trump.
We can't afford purity until we restore Democratic majorities and decent Federal Judges.
5
If we as Democrats do not end the reign of neoliberals like Biden, Obama and Clinton we will once again be promoting endless regime-change wars for profit, mass extinction of animal species due to global warming, pollution of our environment by corporations intent on wringing every blessed buck out of each of us in order to enrich the to 1% even more than they already are. Democrats make small, incremental changes which sometimes end up being good (voting rights, women's emancipation, etc.) but they are basically the same as moderate Republicans, that is, they don't care about us.
8
We have a generation that believes that their poor habits re spending, single parent childrearing, poor college major choices leveraged by student loans are society’s issues and they need to be bailed out. Government continues to reinforce this misnomer and the Democratic party likes to broaden their voting base ( if these people take the time to vote...) with this crowd. We need financial discipline which you will never get taught correctly in the public school system in New York when the teachers just think that scaring the legislature and packing local school boards with retired union member teachers is the answer.
@Paul Duesterdick
My grandfather-in-law didn't go to college, but he worked hard at a good job, and was able to single-handedly provide a comfortable life for his wife and 4 children (who all went to college with minimal debt), purchased multiple homes, and had plenty saved for retirement. They were certainly frugal, especially in the beginning. All that by working hard on a non-college degree salary, pretty amazing huh.
Do you honestly think that is possible these days?
7
Progressive Voters need to understand that whoever the next Democratic president is, he/she will be blocked again and again by Republicans in Congress. Obama would have been able to act on a far more progressive agenda if not for that. Sanders will struggle with the same,
3
I can't believe I hear the media including NYT, CNN, MSNBC, and all the Democrates bashing Bernie Sanders and his supporters and what the stand for, especially universal healthcare and the new green deal. If Bernie is not the nominee, I'm not voting for Biden and hope Bernie supporters do the same. America deserves Donald Trump. America is Donald Trump.
5
And the difference between people who see Bernie as their only hope & the people who see Trump as their only hope is............?
1
@Bob ... Not sure if that is the way to get Bernie supporters to vote for Biden in November. Perhaps they take the hint and vote for Trump just for spite? The enormous number of anti-Bernie comments on here are not going to help bring the party together if Biden wins nomination.
5
Then there are those of us who are not struggling and who see Bernie Sanders as our country's only hope. And by the way, the "working class" makes up much more than half of the US population.
Half a million in this country are homeless and half of the country could not meet a $500 emergency. To me, this is entirely unacceptable, and a soaring stock market is not going to create opportunity for all Americans to live a dignified life. Bernie Sanders will at least fight with everything he has got for that goal. Good enough for me.
14
The belief in Bernie is not just a fad. It is a religion. It is tribal. It is practiced by a high percentage of college graduates whose education did not prepare them to be critical thinkers. Their expectations were raised by dreams unleashed through an unregulated internet and Hollywood. Now they face a reality for which they were not prepared. They were taught to dream, rather than to think critically. Now that their dreams have been dashed, they are angry. Their anger could well split the Democratic party. I wish I had a quick solution. But the only path I see is long and tortuous. It leads through raising children to recognize the primitive nature of our species and to develop strategies to cope with people as their genotype has made them rather than as the hidden angels we imagine them to be.
4
@Howard Winet
Well, this is quite a strange comment about the Democratic party. College educated people voted overwhelmingly more for Hilary than Trump in 2016. Reverse is true for non-college educated.
Also keep in mind that adults aged 49 and under overwhelmingly voted for Hilary over Trump, the reverse being true for 50+.
Am I missing something here? Young, college educated people are overwhelmingly democrat compared to other demographics... probably because they were taught to think critically.
3
So the black voting class that voted for Biden, has no hardships and are good with status quo? or is it that the white voting class who voted for Bernie seeking an easy escape route from their struggles? the narrative is broken here , with the Author using a facial paintbrush to paint out the real problems behind Bernie's plans and giving no identity and crediting no intelligence to Biden voters.
8
Once again I find myself wishing that the NYT (and other representatives of the mainstream corporate media) would have devoted more energy to stories like this one about working class support for Sanders's campaign. Instead, they've fixed on the "Bernie Bro" trope and crepe hanging prognostications (like the other story about Sanders in today's paper) about why Medicare For All is certain not to pass.
What Marianne Williamson calls the Democratic "intra-party coup" that has successfully displaced Sanders in favor of the moderate status quo do-not-much-of-anything has now taken hold. So be it. But I wonder how effective this juggernaut would have been if there were more "fair and balanced" reporting and editorial page coverage of the significance and impact of the Sanders campaign. Instead, we've been treated to the constant fixation on Bernie Bros, the scaremongering "Bolsheviks under the bedpost" narratives, and gross misrepresentations of the extent to which his progressive ( basically New Deal) ideas and ideals have substantial popular support.
The extent to which the Democratic Party and their corporate media allies are willing to go to undermine the Sanders campaign -- and the degree to which it has managed to sustain itself even in the face of all this -- is truly disheartening. Perhaps this is another reason why Sanders keeps a healthy distance from the official Democratic Party.
11
The DNC forces Biden on us the way they forced Hillary in 2016. Biden is weaker than Hillary. Trump has gotten stronger. The DNC has brainwashed people to believe only Biden can win. Those are "the people" who need examination. In a world of fake facts, the truth is that Bernie can beat Trump. Besides, the election process is crooked. Half a million progressives were not allowed to vote in California. The DNC did that. Besides, the election process is crooked. The DNC almost stole California for Biden. Pray that Michigan comes through for Bernie. Unemployed auto workers have Biden’s bad NAFTA vote to thank for that.
7
@Dave what you put here, I agree with all of it, but Bernie won't win today (Super Tuesday II) and that's all right. He is doing the good work that will propel this beautiful beacon of hope (the USA) toward its original manifest. This article by Medina and Ember is refreshing in its impact on me anyway... Some really good folks in the hinterlands think a movement is afoot and I agree. This is good news even if Bernie has to return to the Senate.
1
Free everything for everybody! Vote for me!
Free healthcare? You got it. Free College? It's yours. And don't worry about your student loans. It's gone. Free child care? Of course. Rent too high? No worries - freeze rent increases.
From now on, Everything is Free. The rich will pay for it all. Vote for me!!!!
4
@John Doe Currently I get all the free war I want which is nice.
8
You could make a similar clever argument for corporate welfare, mega tax breaks for the rich over the past three-plus decades, bailouts, political kickbacks, and public policy that favors the ultra-rich. Rather than talking about raising taxes, we should talk about returning to solid ground — when the middle class was able to thrive. The middle class has been paying for the rich to get richer, and now it’s time to ask them to pay their dues to society again.They never could have gotten so filthy rich, without all the breaks and the freebies that this country has given them on the backs of everyone else.
8
You will fail to achieve 100% of the things you never attempt to do.
4
America used to be the land of big ideas and provocative culture that would spread around the world like wildfire. We used to be and stand up for "the sum is greater than its parts." No longer, for everyone has given into the propagandized fear that "too much change" is impossible, delusional and stupid to even discuss. It's sad at best and pathetic at worst.
Go ahead, my fellow Americans... continue your votes for the mediocre establishment who don't care about us. It will get us 4 more years of Trump and you will be to blame because you are afraid of actual change in this country... real change that would help the people of this country. Real change that would see the people DEMANDING congress to vote on our behalves, and not those paying them kickbacks.
Timothy Levitch said it best, "“Fear – a basic theme of all of our lives.... constantly afraid along the streets of Greenwich Village, under threat of assassination. And the assassins are our dreams, triumphant."
If we don't actively pursue a future that benefits everyone in the US, then we aren't pursuing a future at all.
8
Reality Check real question people need to ask them selves is people they support support them or do these elctected officalis represent the party? Dont be fooled agun by the who said so well in there song.
2
Let's Rock Bernie to the Top! Detroit's own Jack White and Company supported him. Get out there and do it Detroit Let's not have four more years of insults and irrelevancy.
4
I want free stuff too - Bernie!
1
My problem with Bernie's movement is that they believe only Bernie is righteous enough to lead them. They excommunicate anyone who will compromise on any position. This is not how democracy works. I know the party has moved right and Bernie isn't radical, but I am not the one they have to worry about convincing. For goodness sake, they even turned on AOC because she liked the SNL skit of Warren (apparently a "neolib")! If you keep subtracting and not adding, where does that math lead you?
3
@Khatera Don't let a few bad apples spoil the bunch!
I'm sure there are plenty of Bernie supporters (I for one - Warren was my first choice) who feel alienated even by your comment. Those actions don't speak for all of his supporters.
I doubt you wish to be looped in with the most extreme and antagonistic of Biden supporters. It's not the way to bring the party together either.
If AOC doesn't have a problem with it (and she supports Bernie) then you shouldn't either!
3
According to some of the numbers, this working class difference between Sanders and Biden supporters simply doesn't exist. For example, the per capita average annual incomes of 2016 Sanders and Clinton voters were virtually the same. Presumably that has not changed. Yep, Sanders supporters are genuinely suffering, but, on average, they are not suffering more than Biden voters. The difference must, to some degree, lie elsewhere. Some of those areas of difference have been reported on here. Self-identified "very progressives" are 92% white. On surveys, Sanders voters are uniquely characterized, among Democrats, by the fact that they agree with the statement, "I would like to burn society to the ground." Sanders voters are significantly more susceptible to conspiracy theories. This wouldn't be the first time we believed a mostly false tale about a populist candidate. By way of comparison, the 2016 voters for what's-his-name had per capita annual average incomes that were $10,000 higher. At the time, all of the scuttlebutt was about what's-his-name's suffering, working class base. As it turned out, the strongest motivator for his voters was not economic issues but rather racial resentment.
3
@Robert
The strong implication, of course, is that there are not really any "fissures along class lines in the Democratic Party." They are largely mythological.
2
It is refreshing to see the NYT treat Sanders supporters as human beings rather than caricature them as Bernie Bros.
It's sad nevertheless that establishment media and corporate Democrats are still more comfortable dismissing and stereotyping Sanders supporters than trying to see the world from their point of view.
10
I wish one article on Bernie supporters would provide the entire picture, not just a glimpse. Did any of these people work their way through college and get a degree that was markatable? Did they start having children before they were able to support them? Did they marry before having children and plan the family? Do they pay their student loans, I paid over $50,000 in student loans by working two jobs until I was 30.
I showed up everyday on time for work, drove a beater for a car, learned all I could at my job to develop skills to get ahead and saved money every way possible to be able to support my family in emergency situations.
These Bernie supporters all seem to have the latest phones, use drugs and alcohol freely(at least the college age) and expect the government to do for them what they refuse to do for themselves. Democrats have attempted to portray all Americans that are not white males as "Victims". This mentality is self defeating and will ruin our country. Google JFK's speech. It begins with "Ask Not"
2
I’m a Bernie supporter who paid off a 50k student loan as well. Huge waste of my resources, but loved my education. Now I have grad school loans, but I want to buy a house. Oh well! Guess I’ll be paying off education for the rest of my life. I simply believe education is a good in itself and should be free to anyone that wants it. Why on earth would we restrict the intelligence of our country by putting up a financial barrier to advanced knowledge?
45
@Dave
I understand your position and feel sorry for you and anyone trying to buy a house in California. The costs are astronomical for well paid people and out of reach for most regular people. My position on Education is that nothing is free that is worth having. This mentality just creates a dependence on Government instead of self. It would also be impossible to implement with the current system. You can attend Junior College and with decent grades you can get grants, scholarships and you can work part time if you really want it. This eliminates the people who really do not care about education but flood the system because it is "Free"
1
@David Sounds like you would have greatly benefited under Bernie's plans. I too got a marketable degree and worked hard to pay off my loans, so what?
Having new phones and drinking alcohol doesn't seem like a deal breaker for me, if they were sipping champagne on their personal yachts then I would - oh that's right, those people are the ones you paid your loans to, worked so hard for, and they pay less tax than you do.
5
Please see Bernie supporter demographics. Trying to redefine age as a "class" distinction is false.
If you were born with a silver spoon or extreme brilliance, then lucky you. But the rest of us have to go the usual route.
For the average person, who has how much is a function of skill, education and experience. It is not a function of merely having been born. Working your way up the food chain -- in lieu of instant gratification -- is how it has always been and how it will always be.
Joe Biden's mental acuity is questionable, whereas Bernie's all there and then some. Joe Biden - like Donald Trump - wants to go back in time to a gentler capitalistic place. If Biden can't comprehend the fierce impetus Sanders' supporters have to rally 'round him - if the capped teeth good ol' boy can't understand what being locked into low paying jobs and fearing illness means - he'll lose. Why? Because Biden couldn't inspire anyone during his last two failed Presidential runs and he's losing his words. But I digress from my main point: Does the corporate shill you choose really matter?
6
Yet another NYT article that doesn't mention one of Bernies greatest strengths: He doesn't fundraise from profiteers. Meanwhile, Biden is funded by the for-profit healthcare and fossil fuel industries, which are literally killing us.
8
@J Exactly. It appears that a lot of people are blind to the fact that ordinary folk are putting their cash behind him.
3
"If you try, your risk failure. If you don't try, you ensure it."
3
Their support of Mr. Sanders, she said, comes down to this: “Our values are with this guy.
This is the essence of this article. The Democratic party became too much aligned with moneyed and corporate interests, leaving working people behind. That's why the Party is trying to block the candidacy of Sanders. Biden and his Party want the status quo to continue -- it is not sustainable and morally bankrupt, really just a skip and a jump away from Trump, who is merely an outsize character in the Republican play to desperately keep everything as it is in the country. Like it or not for these status quo people, 'the times they are a changin'.
7
I think the point here is that, contrary to how opponents often portray them, the base of the Sanders coalition isn't starry-eyed idealists. It's people who are struggling, and some of us who may not be struggling ourselves, but who have witnessed this struggling. It's people on the verge of losing hope in America, who think that even what Joe Biden is offering won't do enough to make things better.
And it's not to say that Joe Biden doesn't have supporters who are struggling or suffering. I'm sure there are a ton of Biden voters in places like Mississippi and South Carolina who have been through, or are going through, some very real stuff, which should not be discounted by anyone. But the fundamental misunderstanding of the Bernie movement is that it's just a bunch of college kids, doctrinaire leftists, and egg-heads looking for a utopia.
Whether you support Sen. Sanders or another candidate, it's important to understand the very real, very material motivations animating his supporters.
58
Who, in this world, does not want utopia? Who would not be happy to see everyone holding a good job, able to get a good education, have good health insurance and generally, live a comfortable and satisfying life.
Bernie Sanders holds out such a dream to all those who do not presently live it. Is it any wonder why so many, so fervently support him? His message of a world in which there are no "have-nots" is seductive for any person who struggles financially.
But there is a huge chasm that separates fantasy from reality; a chasm between what we want to do and what we can do. If accomplishing the many goals for which Mr. Sanders advocates was that easy, it would have been done a long time ago.
That does not mean we should not strive as a nation to make life fairer for all; to address and lessen the huge disparity
between rich and poor. We should and we must. On the other hand, I doubt a majority in this country would like to see a revolution; one that would completely change the very fabric of our society and the form of government under which we have lived and, for the most part, prospered for over 240 years.
6
So, Bernie was denied his shot at the presidency last time and we got Trump. Obama lost both houses because he ran as a progressive then governed like a centrist and failed to help working people. Banks got bailed out, we got sold out.
Everyone on here quibbling about "oh how can his vision ever be enacted" are obviously comfortable with the status quo. How? through using the bully pulpit of the presidency to rally his people into the streets to demand change. Power concedes nothing without a fight. Obama should have and could have done that. He did not.
11
You have a short memory. Obama face massive obstruction from the moment he took office. It’s a wonder that he got the ACA and multiple environmental regulations passed. Also, Sanders is an absolutist. I for one don’t want to see another one of those in office.
4
Given the depiction of Sanders voters here, it’s astounding Biden dismisses Bernie supporters as Bernie Bros and then we go on to talk about how “electable” Biden is. People might have short attention spans for many news stories, but they never ever forget poignant stories and statements that effect them economically.
13
I love Bernie’s clearly articulated and consistent platform. And I love who he is as a human being, which I find more complex and warmer than the cartoon traits the media chooses to amp. He is the only one I see who truly feels how far right we have drifted since the fairer era when he and I both graduated college and is outraged that the deck is now stacked too high against many hard working people. He gets the human impact of flat wages, nearly nonexistent worker protections, lack of decent paying jobs, high housing costs, and astronomical education costs (which come with interest bearing loans!) while people are pushed into college because too many jobs require diplomas for work that could be done by high school graduates. He’s outraged that people are actually dying of emergencies and chronic illness because medical costs are inexcusably high. And he sees climate change for the emergency it is.
Over and over politicians sanctimoniously proclaim we “cant afford” the quality of life routine in other countries while in the background they’ve quietly signed on to staggering costs of wars based on willful errors and bailouts and tax breaks for the obscenely wealthy.
So when some don’t show up for our presidential candidate it’s reasonable to point to their poor judgment in contributing to our current disaster. But how about some introspection on how moderate candidates with nebulous platforms and corporate ties may not appear to offer real solutions or hope. Bernie does.
10
For all the talk of toxic supporters, Biden Democrats have sent a loud scornful message to the people demanding urgent action on health care, student debt, climate and many other issues that their voices don’t matter. That’s the tone. Scorn. Mock. Shame. People won’t forget it
12
Senator Sanders can make a positive impact on the lives of the people that I firmly believe he cares deeply about if he is willing to take a 160 degree turn around in how he works to accomplish his goals.
To do so 'he' has to be more inclusive,stop vilifying people because they have money,recognize the hard cash is the oxygen that drives American politics,therefore if he is the nominee he is going to need lots of it.
The following are starting points that may result in bringing Democrats together.
1. Recognize that the voters determine who is winning the primaries It has nothing to do with the DNC or the Establishment working against you, and everything to do with Americans prioritizing removing Trump from office over policy issues.
2. Join the Democrat Party it will make you more credible, there are millions of Liberals who are bewildered when we are classified as Elites by your surrogates . But none the less we recognize Senator Sanders that your policies are not that radical and outside of the United States are considered mainstream . In other words 'we support you Bernie' .
3. The media is your friend or at least they could be if you stopped attacking them. Fox News not so much though,Democrats are not watching Fox so hosting a Town Hall on Fox will not gain you much support , other than from people who wont be voting for you.
To sum up I would like to support Senator Sanders but cant do so if he is intent on making me feel I am the enemy.
2
@Alec. Great points. Could not agree more. In Bernie's favor, I understand it is difficult to be outraged without a target. But in aiming at his potential voters Bernie is (or his supporters are) making a big mistake. I'm one of those bewildered Liberals who wants to see big changes even though I'm getting along well enough myself in the current system at this point. But I don't think the anger and divisiveness are at all helpful.
1
Like Trump, Bernie Sanders is a populist. The two men differ only in their solutions, not in their views about the problems that plague Americans. Their supporters lived thru the Great Recession and many lost their homes to unscrupulous mortgage lenders or graduated from college with massive student debt and the lack of jobs. They also saw that theses Wall Street elites, who were responsible for the Great Recession, suffer no consequences and instead were rewarded with trillions of dollars of government bailouts. This is the status quo that help elect Trump and shifted Democrats to the left. This is what fuel millennials to campaign aggressively for Democrats in the midterm elections, which gave them control of the House. This is what elected AOC and the Quad. This is the fire that is burning at both ends of the political spectrum.
Meanwhile, old-line Democrats and Republicans give lip service to the demand of populist candidates but want nothing more that to return to the “do nothing” days before Trump, before Bernie Sanders and before populism. Unfortunately, the sleeping giant has wakened and change is coming.
5
Obama 2008: "Change we can believe in"
Biden 2020: "Nothing will fundamentally change"
9
I fail to see how running the less inspiring half of the Obama/Biden ticket which gave rise to Trump is going to work.
11
It's not that mainstream Dems don't care about Bernie's issues, it's that they're realistic enough to know what can and cannot be implemented. Bernie still has no clue what all this will cost and how it will be paid for. Whether you like his ideas or not, they will NEVER happen, and Bernie is essentially feeding his base empty promises. At least Biden and the others can level with the public and not feed them these pie in the sky proposals that have no shot of being passed. These supporters believe the president can implement whatever he/she wants, but if Congress and Senate don't back you, you can't get anything done. Wake up Bernie supporters
3
@Eric Summer How did FDR pass the New Deal? How did LBJ pass the Civil Rights acts? How did Reagan completely flip the regulated administrative branch and tax system on its head?
These ideas, these structural changes, do happen. The question is when. But simply stating that "they will NEVER happen" is not going to convince anyone of anything, because it is a conclusion, not an argument. It shows you're skipping to the end, without wading through the reasons for why not.
Society has been restructured before. It can happen again. Right now, this country's institutions are creating an impoverished class, a debt-laden generation, and a bankruptcy class out of medical expenses. These issues need to be addressed.
I acknowledge your points regarding the political capital, the congress, the senate. But as long as society and politicians keep on saying, like a magic chant "it can't happen it can't happen it can't happen" 'without TRYING, it's already admitting defeat. What happened to "yes we can?" This pessimism is the reason why Congress is deadlocked.
The government can declare that no one gets to wear orange tomorrow. And it can put that policy into place with its power. Anything is possible. Why can't it put into place policies that the majority of Americans want?
To paraphrase Warren: I'm not sure why someone would run for President, or for that matter, support someone for President, on a platform of what CAN'T be done.
Please think about it.
7
I'm a college graduate who is NOT living paycheck to paycheck, but I'm alarmed by the widening wealth disparity in our country and I want to see the system change so that every American has access to good healthcare, affordable education and a secure retirement. And I'm actually willing to pay for it. I like Bernie's ideas and I love his passion, and I think he's started a conversation that must continue. BUT I think he's not the right choice for Democratic nominee. I doubt he's capable of beating Trump. And based on his record, I don't think he's likely to build the coalition needed to make his policies actually happen if he did get elected. My ideal candidate would be someone who can lead us in the direction that Bernie espouses, but with the people/political/diplomatic skills to bring the national along so we can end some of the divisiveness and get new policies made into law.
6
@KdG
Well said! Thank you for your rational opinion that is right on point. Bernie has no coalition in Congress to push his ideas through. Furthermore, with him at the top of the ticket I fear a Republican takeover of the house.
1
It's been incredibly refreshing to hear a national politician invoke the working class with such positive connotations--not as something to escape "into the middle class." The Party Establishment chose to leave us behind in the 1970s and focus on professionals, white-collar workers, and big donors instead. They won't be satisfied until we all just give up on politics and give them free rein. Bernie gives me hope that we still won't let them.
7
Bernie is not offering anything for free. That is the republican lie to defeat his plans.
We pay now. We will pay under a better cheaper system. The difference is that we will pay less. The only way it could possibly cost more is a rigging of the thing. As you should know the prices we pay for everything are well above cost of providing that thing to us.
10
The fundamental problem is that the Democratic Party really contains multiple political parties within its structure - a far left socialist wing which seems to be about 20% of the overall electorate and a moderate wing (centre-left to centris to centre-right) which is about 30-40% of the electorate). Right now there is a struggle as to which wing will prevail but regardless which one does, it will send some support to 3rd parties (in the case of the left wing) or to the Republicans (in the case of the moderates or centre-right factions). If the left wing prevails we could perhaps see movement to the Repubs of more moderates which will moderate that party from its current extreme right position. If the moderates prevail, some support of the far left will leach to the Green Party or even perhaps the Repubs (since some Sanders supporters seem to think that a moderate Democrat is worse than an extreme Republican like Trump).
3
African-Americans, by not voting for Sanders, are voting against their own economic, social and justice interests. What has Biden done for African- Americans besides savaging Anita Hill, taking away the only legal avenue, chapter 7 bankruptcy, for poor and middle classes Americans to get out of debts and star over, voting for criminal justice legislation that sent tens of thousands of African-Americans to prison, voting for the Iraq war contributing the the death of thousands of Americans and tens of thousands of Iraqis. Biden’s long records reflect not only poor judgment but also opportunistic and selfish interests.
It’s depressingly expected to see the Democratic establishment lines up behind Biden, but it’s tragic to see African-Americans, the most disadvantaged minority, voting against their own interests.
13
Sanders is the rare politician who, over decades, relates to the suffering of Americans with compassion and conviction. People are hurting and Sanders correctly understands, even if many Americans don’t, that incrementalism and gradual change will not cut it. In fact, most people who argue for incrementalism have had a nice breakfast, will travel to a good job with sick leave, and have affordable healthcare if they develop flu symptoms later in the week. For them Joe Biden is candidate of choice.
Trouble is that Joe is a weak corporate Democrat with a terrible record that has had almost no serious scrutiny from the Times or anyone else. His television interviews have been carefully choreographed to prop him up one softball question at a time.
Moreover, Biden is often confused, disoriented and emotionally volatile. His cognitive decline is progressive and makes him vulnerable in the next phase of the campaign. Unless the stock market continues to tank, Biden will lose to Trump, a delusional narcissist.
And should Biden win, we will have a terribly impaired President to lead us through a pandemic, a recession and a climate emergency with baby steps that won’t cut it.
Sanders and his bold progressive platform was the man for that job.
10
I am a New Deal legacy liberal whose heroes are FDR, Truman, RFK -- and Elizabeth Warren. While I am disillusioned with DLC neoliberal types, I am also wary of those who express nothing but hostility towards capitalism. Bernie is the wrong messenger to bring the Democrats back to FDR liberalism.
There are basically two forms of capitalism; Laissez-faire and Accountable or New Deal legacy capitalism. Democrats can redefine what the center truly means by attacking the former but by embracing the latter. Bernie, however, is incapable of doing that because he treats capitalism as monolithic.
In this way Bernie actually confuses people. He often allows his supporters to hear and see what they want. Indeed, he has never truly defined his idea of socialism – as do many of his supporters. Many of Sanders’ supporters say that labels no longer matter. That is a lethally wrong conclusion. It is also terribly naive.
The way to win is by embracing an agenda to democratize capitalism – as FDR did – not to express vague hostility towards it.
4
@Frank L. Cocozzelli I agree that Bernie's largely gone about this in the wrong way. But to say that he hasn't defined his conception of socialism is wrong. He talks about it at the debates, town halls, and most clearly in a televised speech last June.
3
@Max Robe I disagree.
In his speech last June, nowhere in Sanders’ speech was there anything about nationalizing industry or in any way, curtailing or doing away with either private property or the profit motive. Does his interpretation of democratic socialism deviate in any way from socialist orthodoxy and if so, how? Again, within varying degrees, that is at the root of socialist beliefs. Different from socialism, liberalism clearly believes in the defensive ownership of private property as well as the profit motive, albeit both subject to specific reasonable restraints.
I still don't know where Bernie stands on this vital distinction.
1
This is why we need an independent socialist party to address the needs and concerns of those forgotten or ignored by the two "mainstream" parties, i.e., the working class. The Democratic Socialists of America and other splinter groups (SWP, SLP etc.) should quit their bickering and get together in 2021 to form a socialist party with potential national impact and candidates who are beyond the merely symbolic. Sanders has been proof that a social democratic message has an audience, nationwide.
Of course, in this election, the key matter is to defeat Trump.
3
Bernie seems to have idealistic values, but his candidacy is the epitome of letting the ideal be the enemy of making real life better. He is misleading people with his promises that there can be some kind of "revolution" that would lead to anything like what he is promising. This seems to rope in idealistic folks, especially young people, but if he wins the nomination, we will end up with worse, not better. Trump is worse. Biden is better. Bernie is a lost election and a lost Congress. Better is more idealistic than worse. I wish Bernie could be honest enough with himself to quit misleading people with outrageous promises. 2008 was a landslide and a charismatic Obama, and did we get a revolution? Almost none of what Bernie promises could ever become law, even if he were elected.
4
@mtwjo I think he's been troublingly wrong about energizing non-voters and the disaffected. But he hasn't been misleading--speaking in imaginative terms is part of shifting political discourse. The problem is that he's up against forty years of politicians, media, and think tanks--a whole communications apparatus--that have sought to diminish citizen expectations.
2
What we saw was a Democratic Party so afraid of progress that they coordinated a perfect storm to elevate a feeble old man above a candidate that has promise. What we saw was a television news media that will do anything to save their lifeblood, big campaigns and drug commercials.
The desperation and coordination was so obvious. An entire day of Biden endorsements while Biden was hidden away from view, just so Bernie Sanders would be prevented from removing the rot in the Party. It was like the entire leadership of the Democrat Party, that always seems incapable of standing up to the right wing, panicked when they saw a man who actually intended to keep standard Democratic party promises after election day.
What we now see is endless and hopeless corporate governance. And the worst part is that once the Democratic leadership gives a second election to Trump they will still be in power. It's not Democracy it's Duopoly.
9
The problem with Bernie is that there are too many entrenched, countervailing forces in American society for his message to truly break out. Too many states rely on fossil fuels as their main industry. Too many people (Boomers) are of an age where they understandably want to be conservative with regards to reforms in healthcare and tax policy. And Bernie himself is not exactly the best messenger; he’s 78 and he just had a heart attack. A movement of the scope he’s talking about requires someone that will be around for awhile to see it through.
I agree with 99% of what he’s saying but the lack of detail and the disposition of the country at large prove that it’s all a “work-in-progress”. The Democratic Party would be stupid not to adopt and elaborate more on Bernie’s message but it needs to be refined for wider consumption. We don’t need a new FDR we need another Obama that can add 40-60%of Bernie’s message to the political mainstream.
4
The problem I had with the Social Democrats in college was that they can't have a real discussion with you because they don't think things through, and aren't willing to. It's not enough to identify problems and yell about them. A real leader presents rational, workable solutions to those problems, and Bernie's are full of holes and easy to pick apart. And he doesn't seem to care about that; he just repeats his stump speech over and over, just like the Social Democrats did in college. Don't just yammer on about an overhaul of the medical or banking or educational systems. Tell us the details, and be willing to discuss them and to stand corrected where your ideas need refinement. (With them it'll never happen.) If Sanders were elected the bloom would come off the rose very quickly as his followers realized the freebies he promised weren't materializing, because his half-formed ideas are all unworkable. Sanders' followers don't need to put pressure on the Democrats. They need to put pressure on Sanders, to do a better job of representing them.
3
I sympathize with Bernie folks, but I wonder why they can’t hear the voice of reason. How will a man uninterested in coalitions get his policies unto law?
Do they believe that the Bernie youth surge, which data tell us is not an actual thing, will make Congress progressive from day one? And that Congress will vote in national health care, free college, $15 min wage and a wealth tax immediately? Then they’ll ban billionaires and fix income inequality before lunch.
Times are complex, democracy is threatened. Bernie can not achieve what he promises, and by losing to trump, he will make any progressive policies impossible for years.
3
I don't believe I'm alone in feeling uneasy with the resounding "How dare you!" uttered by Greta Thunberg excoriating elders for suggesting the health of the planet is now in the hands of younger generations.
How dare we ignore the plight of millions of voters now coming of age and into power? They have inherited a filthy, unhealthy environment. They've been bequeathed lifetimes of debt should they decide to pursue a college education. The thought of owning their own homes and beginning families is fading as quickly as Sanders' Quixotic quest for the presidency.
With Sanders, there is hope for meaningful change in the lives they lead. Instead, they must look at Trump vs Biden as another installment of a long-running horror series. I do not pretend to speak for them. I can stand with them.
7
Sanders started a movement and shifted the conversation. Even if he does not win, he has done more to bring these issues to light than anyone else. Sanders may not win, but if he doesn’t, as boomers die off, the country’s politics will shift further left.
Moreover, everything Sanders wants to do can be paid for buy cutting our military machine in half. We don’t need so many guns, bullets, tanks, missiles, subs, planes, and ships. We simply don’t.
A small tax on short term capital gains ( aka Wall Street speculation) will also bolster his programs.
Our country is collapsing around us because of 40 years of gross mismanagement by both parties. We should have started renewing infrastructure in the 80’s, but we didn’t.
Our education system is in shambles.
Our health care systems is a nightmare, thanks to the 1973 HMO legislation signed into law by Nixon.
Our system of pensions is corrupt, because pension funds are now permitted to invest in the stock market. Hello Detroit...it’s pensions funds only collapsed because the Congress decided to end the Glass-Steagall act.
We have never had such inequality of wealth.
Finally, Covid-19 merely proves the weak-mindedness if the people who run our present administration, not to mention everything else that has transpired in the past four years.
All of this makes a Sanders-type candidate win a sure bet within the next 16 years, if he does not win. The establishment Dems can’t fix what’s wrong with our country and our world.
5
His plans to wipe clean student debt should start with the school his wife drove into the ground, Burlington College. All while getting a $200,000 severance. Good work if you can find it!
3
Some of the things Sanders says have merit. Veering left after veering right doesn't correct the skid, however. It makes it worse. Sanders appears more and more like a mirror image or the evil twin of Trump. Populism of any kind is not a winning formula. Class wars are stupid and ask their supporters to believe comic book ideals about the world and their fellow citizens.
Selling divisiveness and vengeance as a remedy to the very real angst many Americans feel is not a prescription for a hurting and damaged country. We've had that for the last 3 years from the extremist right who have effected a coup on America. Do we want four more years of outrage and anger or do we want to return to normalcy, save our social welfare networks, ensure healthcare moves forward by making what we have better rather than blowing it up?
Saying things like "Billionaires are bad" and they should pay for everything I need is not a way forward to a just society. It's a comic book slogan that appeals to those that don't like the current system. I don't like the current system either. Does anyone believe going full left will be some sort of bipartisan answer to our problems? It won't. It just means 4 more lost years while people hate each other.
1
The republicans are the party of billionaires
The democrats are the party of millionaires
The Sanders Movement is the party of working folks.
6
Sanders:
1) has explicitly said he is a socialist, and that the democratic socialist party he is part of wants to "abolish capitalism." If you are a person claiming he is not a socialist, you should stop that.
2) The Nordic countries that Sanders supporters site as exemplars of where the USA should go are monolithically white, so the social cohesion there is high. US citizens have demonstrated again and again that they are racist.
3) Those same Nordic countries basically free ride off of the hard work and innovation of the USA. Without the USA subsidizing medical procedures and innovation, the nordic countries would have to work much, much harder.
You cannot get something for nothing. If you are getting something for nothing *someone else is paying for you*.
3
@J c
The Nordic countries do plenty of excellent research and innovation into the various fields of America, as do Canada, the U.K., France, Germany, and Israel. I guess you don't read medical journals much. I also suppose you've never heard of McGill.
3
Bidens medical plan is more expensive and covers less.
M4A is the economically and socially responsible choice.
See:
The Lancet, Annals of Internal Medicine, PLOS Medicine, Federal Reserve survey and Journal of General Internal Medicine.
6
Every time I read a Sanders article like this my brain hurts. All I see among his supporters are lots of idealistic misguided people who want "free" stuff like medicare for all and college tuition. Like where do they think this stuff is going to come from? Who in congress is going to advocate or pass this stuff? Nobody talks about details.
Most democrats do not want a proletariat revolution. Most are realists and understand that "the establishment" is not an enemy but part of the structure of government that isn't going away and is necessary to getting things done. Why do we want to alienate billionaires when cooperation from corporations is what we need to fix problems. Bashing Wall Street doesn't help. Does Sanders and his base think that Wall Street is just gonna fall in line if he ends up in the oval? Sanders talks about the "establishment" the same way the right wing talks about the deep state. When Sanders' people talk about the establishment what image is in their heads?
I'm clearly a Biden fan, but I am also a pragmatist. In my opinion, Sanders is not about a movement. He's about stroking his ego very much like the guy we want out of the oval office. Stop being selfish, Sanders. Go home and go to bed.
3
Before the current stock market tumble I saw my "portfolio" swell under the policies of Trump and the Republicans in Congress. Nevertheless I voted for Bernie in the 2016 primary and was planning to vote for Warren in next week's Illinois primary. Not because I though they would make me richer, but because I thought they would enrich the society I would be living in for the rest of my life. Unfortunately Americans who care about the country their children will inherit fear (rightfully so) another 4 years of Trump and a McConnell led Senate. They will settle for the good ole days of the Obama presidency rather than try truly progressive ideas like those of Sanders or Warren. Rather than moving forward after the shameless behavior of my fellow fatcats and the Republican Congressmen they have bought we will will wind up with the status quo of Joe Biden, a throwback to the 20th Century's business as usual. I'll be O.K. with that. Anyone but Trump and McConnell! I lived the American Dream and am willing to share my good fortune of being born in the 40s. But is this what our Grand-kids want? If they want progress they had better get off their Gen X-Y-Z butts and vote now for progress or they will be worse off than we baby-boomers are today.
4
I'm baffled by the Democratic establishment's tone-deafness to the real issues that their supposed constituencies are dealing with. Clearly the lessons of 2016 have been ignored. The party can continue to gaslight us with their non-stop media barrage but that little dance stops the minute their poor addled candidate hits the general election. Those of us mired in debt, struggling to find work, unable to afford health insurance during a global pandemic no less, you cannot count on us to support your candidate or your total lack of vision.
https://medium.com/@tlr31/joe-biden-cant-win-c3d368731edd?source=friends_link&sk=a46148a4a543162719c267987f4d3403
5
First things, first, people. We have to get rid of the monster in the White House. And that means a candidate who can attract people who may not be exactly like us.
1
We know Bernie is a real American hero. Fighting for the working class. He isnt a liar like 99.9% of Washington's elites.
Biden is a proven liar. Says he was against the Iraq war while their is video of him praising Bush and his war efforts over and over.
He lies about just about everything. Lied about his part in the civil right struggle when again on tape saying he had nothing to do with it. His words. There is picture of Bernie marching with MLK.
7
This is a familiar refrain from 2016, when this paper published numerous articles about poor people in Kentucky who said Trump was "Their Only Hope." How's that working out for them?
1
Just wait till your insurance company tells you,
“Sorry, we don’t cover that”.
5
If you don't cast a vote, you're voting for Trump.
I pretty much agree with everything Bernie Sanders is saying. But, it doesn't matter. I am still casting my vote for Joe Biden. Why? Because you need Congress to pass legislation and Bernie would not be able to get anything done. It's that simple. The country is not where Bernie is. I also don't believe Bernie is electable, again, because the country is not ready for a democratic socialist. Maybe one day, but certainly not now. Sad but so true.
40
@Bradley Absolutely spot on.
I wish more had come to this logical and realistic conclusion earlier in the campaign. Maybe then we could have had a better option than Joe.
As is stands though, Joe *s now the only option for those of use that want this Republican nightmare to end and for work to actually get done. It's a shame Bernie's base isn't interested in that though.
1
@Bradley A vote for Biden in the primary is a win for Trump in the general.
13
@Bradley This might be true. But the country doesn’t seem to be willing to elect another establishment candidate either (see, HRC). Good luck rooting for Biden. Biden or Bernie, Trump must go. But expecting Trump voters to embrace Biden more than Bernie is as wishful as thinking Sanders can win with a landslide.
10
I'm a Bernie supporter that will vote for Biden in November. When Bernie loses the DNC nomination because of a lack of superdelegates (again) and chooses to campaign for the Democratic nominee (again) in the general election - DO NOT blame Bernie or his supporters if Trump wins in November. The party must look inward at the person who lost if that is the case.
4
The problem with Sanders is that his solutions for helping the working class are for the government to give away everything. Free healthcare, free college, free daycare, forgive all student debt, etc., etc., etc. How all of this will be paid for? Higher Taxes.
What Sanders should be talking about is creating an environment where everyone who wants to go for the brass ring, has the opportunity to do so. Not with a hand out but with polices that encourage business ownership and self development i.e. expanding the SBA loan program, creating a flat or VAT tax so that more dollars are kept in the hands of consumers who fuel the economy, doubling down on Obama Care which was working until the GOP's efforts to dismantle it, etc.
I don't want or need the government to provide me with everything. All I want is the continued opportunity to live the American dream but with a more level playing field, which today it is not. Bernie, would tax me into the poor house
I also came from a working class background, however I did things differently as many of my contemporaries did. I went down to the draft board and volunteered for the draft which I was subjected to. Many of my friends in Brooklyn did the same.
President Johnson signed the G.I. Bill and I used it for my undergraduate degree I earned in Brooklyn and it paid part of my graduate studies and I footed the balance with a student loan.
Many of the young people today does not seem to want to make the sacrifice that my generation made. I do not think Bernie can offer them what he promise such as free college tuition and medicare for all.
4
@Tonjo - well, you are correct - but we have created a remarkably demanding group of people. They. will never be happy, but always will feel entitled to "free" stuff!
1
@Tonjo Costs have changed disproportionately since those times (not in favor of the ordinary citizen while wealth gap has gotten to the highest level in history) and have belief in the youth’s capacity to observe and understand the circumstances of their generation. Wouldn’t you feel upset if your beliefs and thoughts were constantly discredited by the mainstream media when you were young? The youth also respect working hard and being able to stand on their own feet. But the system is rigged for the corporations, banks, and the wealthiest. Was bailing out Wall Street not radical? Why didn’t we let them just fix it themselves if individuals are expected to succeed on their own regardless of the economic circumstances they live in?
3
@Tonjo - Sorry, are you calling your socialized college education a "sacrifice"?
I enjoy reading this coming from the first generation in America that left their children worse off than they were. If only Boomer had invested in the future like the Greatest Generation had, then the Millennials would have all the same advantages you did. They didn't call the Boomers the "Me Generation" for nothin', though.
3
First off let me say I agree with Bernie’s ideas. I wish we had a government that worked for the people and not the corporate interests. However things don’t change from the top down. There is no support in the House or Senate or state and local governments to enact these policies. If Bernie looses the nomination don’t be discouraged. His supporters need to keep up the fight, run for office or support local candidates who support these policies. Also grass roots movements can continue to push the Dems to the left. Politics is a long game. It took the GOP 40 yrs to get this point of total take over. Hopefully it won’t take progressives that long.
It will take much much longer if trump wins another term. Know the Supreme Court is poised for a total takeover if that happens and progress will come to a screeching halt. There is a big difference between Biden and trump. With one there is a chance of change for the better.
Vote blue no matter who.
1
@Hummingbird - Sorry, it seems to me you're asking me to vote for someone who:
1) worked with credit card agencies to make it easier to extract money from the poor.
2) voted to attack Iraq, a nation that had nothing at all to do with 9/11, and kill hundreds of thousands of civilians.
3) has nicer things to say about white supremacists like Strom Thurmond than about people who want to provide healthcare to his constituency.
4) wrote the crime bill that created the for-profit prison system which rages so far our of control that the United States has more people- not a percentage! but actual human beings- in prison that totalitarian China.
That's gonna be a hard pass. Sorry.
4
The opening sentence of the article—I assume a quotation from Sanders—encapsulates his problematic campaign: he has always been a divider not a unifier. This is one of the many things I so intensely dislike about Trump as well.
Yes, we need better health care for all (whether it's control is centralized in the federal government is another question); yes, we need to make education beyond 12th grade more affordable (though "free" 4-year college education is questionable proposition); yes, we need to raise the income of the working classes; yes, we need a tax code that makes the top 2% pay their fair share according to the benefits they have received. But Sanders's statement suggests some sort of class warfare, and that serves nobody in our country.
29
@WiltonTraveler It's divisive to state that your campaign is for the working class? I would suggest that everyone who gets paid a regular wage (no stock options or deferred retirement golden parachutes) is working class. That's close to 99% of people, I believe.
13
@WiltonTraveler You have to recognize the highly biased media coverage on Bernie, when you say he is implying a class warfare. No. He is not. If you are not in the top 0.1%, you are one of the people who need Sanders’ proposals to keep the economy healthy in the long run. Tax cuts and financial sector bailouts will not help in the long run. Everyone except the 0.1% will be worse off. People are running out of money to buy things and the next recession will be painful.
11
@WiltonTraveler I agree that it feels like uncomfortable division but when will we wake up and see it and do something about it?? Pretending you can do the same old stuff again and again and end up with a different result is insanity!! Wake up and look around before it is too late please!
3
To get anywhere near affordable, let alone free, higher education it is not just a matter of finding money, costs need to be reversed. I spent time on the UCSB campus last Summer and found it hedonistic. if it is to be free, it has to be stripped of its entertainments.
2
I think one of our biggest problems is that the Dem establishment relies on the same wealthy campaign contributors that the GOP does. And their message is clear, they do not want to contribute more taxes (or any!) to our societal well being, and many want the wars in the middle east to continue.
The fact that young men and women join the military so that they can get help in paying for an education, only to come back maimed, traumatized or in a box, is the most heart breaking part of this whole system of ours. We are allies with many of countries who have universal healthcare and subsidized education, and we are willing to fight for our allies who have so much that WE don't even enjoy. Citizens united has done us in. I used to think the supreme court and our vote were still somewhat free of manipulation, I was wrong.
7
@C. Bernard
Many veterans like myself joined the military to enjoy the educational benefits, but not the only reason. How is it heartbreaking to serve the country? Less than 1% serve in the military to keep our freedom. I served 2 tours in combat in Afghanistan. All of us knew the risk. I came back 90 % disabled to include PTSD, but i wouldn't trade it for anything. My BA was paid for and am working on my MA with my VA benefits. Yes it hurts when i think of my brothers and sisters who paid the ultimate price, and yes many of us veterans question the wisdom of Iraq and Afghanistan. We knew what were singing up for, especially us in combat operations. Don't be heartbroken, be proud of those who voluntered to put on the uniform and made the ultimate sacrifice so you didn't have to.
3
Whether or not Bernie wins, he has moved the Progressive agenda further ahead, and it will continue to gain power.
The neoliberal agenda is a catastrophic failure, the future is Progressive.
7
Biden, talking recently about the progressive wing of the party, said, "we have a lot in common, like concerns about global warming and race relations, and a range of issues." The fact that he skipped past the signature issues for progressives wasn't an accident. Biden may have thought this was an invitation to join together. The effect was just the opposite. The real message was, "your priorities are not on my list, so sorry."
5
The Main Rreason That Democratic Party Lost to Trump in 2016 was because They Were Not Fighting For Something,but They Were Only Fighting To Stop Something (Fascism and Racism) or Somebody (Trump). It seems like Democrats are trying to repeat the same mistakes this year; both in The Primary (Stop Sanders) and The General (Stop Trump). History shows that Voters Respond To A Campaign That Offers Something or Ideas than the one that's just against something or ideas or Somebody. Democrats must come up with a Clear Vision and Irresistible Brand. Like him or not,Trump has an irresistible Brand called " Make America Great Again". Instead of offering their own irresistible Brand,Hillary and the Obamas wasted their time and energy trying to prove that America is already great. As we now know,many voters didn't believe that America is already great. Among all the two dozens democratic candidates,it's only one that has a Brand which is "For All" in terms of Medicare For All,Public Colleges For All,Government Should Work For All,Housing For All,This Country For All and not for the few wealthy people,and he also has a Motto which is " Not me,Us". Can anyone tell me the Brand or even the Motto of Joe Biden besides "Defeat Trump" and "I'm The Most Electable" ? While defeating Trump might be the number one goal of tribal Democrats,it might not be the number one goal of Independent and Swing Voters who actually decide the outcome of any presidential election.
7
I'm a professional with a comfortable life. I have no financial need to worry about the working class.
However, I'm a student of economics (since I read Adam Smith, then got a degree in math and economics) and a student of politics (watching politics like most people watch sports, with a Masters in Political Science).
Unlike Trump supporters, I worry about more in life than my own immediate interests. I don't want to be a well off person in country full of working poor people struggling to survive. I'm not interested in being richer than others, I'm interested in all Americans thriving and living to our highest potential.
This is why I am afraid for my country. Too many professionals and others with a few million dollars in wealth seem to identify with billionaires instead of the working class. Guess what? They don't identity with you.
A few thousand billionaires own HALF of all wealth on Earth. They own as much wealth as the other 7 billion of us, including the millionaires. They didn't create as much wealth as 7 billion people.
They are richer than most countries, which makes them feel as important as a country. A billionaire is worth 1,000 millionaires and they are fully aware that they are in a whole other class than the merely comfortable upper middle class.
Billionaires use their wealth to manipulate governments and markets to skim the wealth of others, 24/7.
If you don't opppose what they are doing they will keep REDISTRIBUTING our wealth to themselves.
THINK!
11
@McGloin
Thank you! My thoughts exactly!
1
It’s also the children of the well-to-do who are well educated and debt free but seeing a future for themselves and their children of an increasing gig economy with no benefits,no stability and no future. And then there is climate change.
History has had its share of Bernies. Charismatic people who sound good, promise to enact all kinds of programs to help the poor despite never having done so, and forgetting Congress holds the purse strings. We forget that government moves slowly and incrementally for a reason.
I find it somewhat mystifying this outpourings of support for an old man with a few ideas that have some merit. But I find it odd that he and his supporters of all socioeconomic groups feel that they can blast the “ oligarchs, capitalists, and the establishment.”
For the groups that Bernie continuously rants against are those that actually vote in large numbers. They are those who are put off by his eye-bulging, fist pumping and shouting message. Reminds some of us older people of someone we are attempting to vote out of office albeit with a different message.
So, in order for Bernie to win the general election, something has got to give. Perhaps it’s his tone. Perhaps it’s a more conciliatory and inclusive manner. Perhaps it’s admitting that these kinds of “ revolutions” take some time. Perhaps it’s selecting an intelligent, young female Vice President. Perhaps it’s all of the above.
For without some sort of reset, Bernie is toast in the general election.
1
Whoever that keeps saying there is no way to pay for Bernie's plan is either somewhere close to top 1%, or someone who isn't but is blinded by all the 'arguments' provided by that 1%.
8
Bernie Sanders is perpetrating a lie. The lie is only the rich will have to pay for a government takeover of education through college and our entire health care system.
Are we all willing to pay a lot more for universal public education through college, universal health care for all and have all funding guaranteed by a single payer who's budgets will be subject to change and review every year through a political process that includes people who don't want to fund it and may be in the majority at different times?
There is no free anything. We collectively as a nation have to pay for it. Do we need single payer to accomplish universal education through college and health insurance. I don't think it makes sense to subsidize both health care and college for those who can afford it.
I do believe in both Universal health care and universal public education through college. You do it through subsidies and grants based on need. You take care of the poorest among you with a strong social safety net. Yes we have public colleges, public health insurance and public health clinics. That doesn't mean we don't have a vibrant private sector providing those services.
I'm willing to pay more in taxes for a different kind of budget. I hate Bernie's lie that only the super rich will pay. It's not reality and it's not how you build a nation with common values. If we really believe in universal health care and college the middle class must be willing to pay for it.
3
I'm sure I'm not the only one who's wondering where this clear-eyed, honest coverage was over the past year.
6
I can’t understand those Sanders supporters.
What’s the problem with the rich getting richer while the poor get poorer.
What’s the problem with having most Americans unable to come up with $400 for an emergency
What’s the problem with spending twice as much for healthcare as other developed countries spend.
Go ahead DNC, run Biden, loose to Trump and look forward to the first female president in 2024.
Ivanka
7
So let's ask these Bernie supporters to explain why Bernie has been in the Senate forever and has ZERO to show for it. No legislation proposed or sponsored or passed that would help anyone. He's not a Democrat -- he just uses the Democratic party when he's running for president. If he'd have been a serious member of Congress as a Democrat, he'd be on or chairman of various committees, instead he frittered away that opportunity calling himself an "independent, a socialist" instead of standing up and being counted and having to take responsibility for legislation won and lost. He's a rock thrower, not a builder. His proposals will never come to fruition whether or not he is president because in order to pass legislation you need to be able to work with others -- which Bernie can't do.
The people supporting him are as blind as the people who support the do-nothing, bloviating Trump. Bernie is that same guy -- ranting old man standing on the corner but ultimately getting zip done.
8
@Amanda Bonner This is a lie and Dem establishment talking point. Go look at his record and then come back and edit your comment please.
2
@Amanda Bonner
These claims continue to be made and refuted. Perhaps you should do some real research.
1
The free stuff crowd. The people who think I should pay for they $200k student debt for a degree in transgender studies/Greek pottery/or something equally useful to the community in general. Not nursing, not medical, not engineering. These millennials had to choose these majors bc they are “special” and they “should be fulfilled and pursue what makes them happy”
I had scholarships and worked two jobs, I went to an Ivy League school. I graduated with $10k in debt, which I paid in two years by not eating avocado toast. Safety net is an amazing concept, and very much needed, and it’s for safety, not free money for people who continuously make wrong choices. Everyone should have a modicum of health insurance, but to do away with private insurance is beyond ridiculous.
There is a reason why the majority of Bernie voters are people under 30 and sub employed. Is that they have no concept of reality how to pay for things.
Again remember the maxim - “socialism is great until you run out of other people’s money”.
4
@DS I would have thought your ivy league education would have taught you better than to regurgitate millennial stereotypes, it comes across very demeaning, but perhaps that was your intention.
I am a millennial who had a great work ethic instilled by my parents, I went to college, got a well paid professional job, paid off my loans quickly and am in great financial shape, especially relative to most people my age group.
I am also a Bernie supporter (first choice was Warren), this is because I have compassion for other people who aren't as lucky or "gifted" as me, people simply need more help than I do. If it was purely down to choice and willpower, why aren't we all billionaires with perfect abs?
Professionals like you and me still need people to cook and serve food, maintain roads, educate, build houses and fix things, write books and poetry, and these people are truly struggling to make ends meet and many have died because they can't afford healthcare. We know healthcare for all isn't free, we know we are going to be taxed more, but it will be cheaper in the long run. That's why other countries do it, because it's CHEAPER - https://interactives.commonwealthfund.org/2017/july/mirror-mirror/
Loans have also increased relative to wages far more than when you went to school.
P.S. I assume since you are against "free stuff" you either paid back your scholarships or have at least paid that forward? Because, a scholarship is just a fancy word for a hand out.
3
@DS
College isn't about someone's major, it's about learning critical thinking. That's why I could go from majoring in literary theory at an Ivy League college, take a lot of courses in various disciplines, do post baccalaureate work, then go to med school and eventually become a psychiatrist. Fortunately my parents helped me with the loans. But I didn't go into a high-paying medical specialty in an over-served area to pay those loans back.
Also the "college" money will pay for vocational training for those who choose that.
With your great wisdom, I hope you are volunteering to the community, teaching people how to make the "right choices."
1
If the primary is going how I think it's going, Biden will need to improve his healthcare and climate plans if he wants any chance at beating Trump. Right now, he's polling worse than Trump in MI, whereas Bernie is polling ahead of Trump. He needs to do a lot to unite the party.
Biden may be winning the Democratic primary, but the general election brings out a broader array of voters. Biden is unpopular with Democrats under 40, due to opposing Medicare for All, debt-free public college, and his lackluster climate plan. It would only benefit him to adopt Sanders' or Jay Inslee's climate plan; I don't have any hope of him backing M4A.
In the long term, I'm worried that Biden's 'return to normalcy' presidency would be a pyrrhic victory. If the conditions that set up Trumpism continue, and Democratic leadership ignores young people, it's a matter of time before a more polished, competent GOP demagogue takes over.
4
The Bernie diehards that didn't show up to vote for Hilary, essentially elected Trump.
And they're going to do it again this year.
Honestly, Bernie reminds me very much of Trump. An ideologue pleading to the poor with no real plans that plays the angry victim role.
3
@John Doe This is a provable lie. Go look up the facts please.
2
I am always worried when anyone is annointed 'the only one who can fix this.' As I recall Donald Trump was also the only one who can fix this and has not exactly pulled the country together.
Personality cults are not a good basis for deciding who (whom?) to vote for.
3
Bernie won 93% of the vote from a key demographic. Men and women ages 25-35 with four or more years of college but no degree who live in their parents basement.
3
The difference between Bernie Sanders and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. is that Dr. King understood he was the leader of a movement..not a messiah.
Sanders “I alone can fix it” mentally is diametrically opposed to Dr. King’s fateful words “I may not get there with you...”
Dr. King understood the difference between the movement and the man.
Sanders would do well to learn from Dr. King’s powerful example of how build a strong, diverse, lasting movement by attracting - rather than demonizing and dividing the party and people he seeks to lead.
2
@Diane Bancroft
His campaign slogan is literally "Not Me, Us" and you are criticizing him for having an "I alone can fix it" mentality? You're citing Dr. King's example when he openly criticized the white moderates for allowing a negative peace instead of fighting for justice? Remind me again which candidate tried to fight desegragated busing and which one was arrested fighting for civil rights?
5
You have to ask yourself who is the best candidate for the working class, Trump or Sanders. The same question should be asked if Biden wins the nomination. The Republican party or the Democratic party. Who ever wins the nomination will need the support of their opponent to defeat Trump. They should encourage their followers to vote for the democrat and show unity unlike 2016. Whoever comes in second should support and campaign with the front runner until the vote in November.
2
I like Bernie. I didn’t vote for him in the primary, but I like him (despite his ever-increasing crotchetiness).
But I do hope Bernie voters realize that this election isn’t about what Dems want, it’s about what independents and alienated Republicans want. Many of those voters are turning away from Trump, and whoever the Dem candidate is needs to give those voters the shortest journey across the political spectrum for them to vote against Trump.
The journey from being a moderate Republican to far-left Bernie position is a long one. It’s a much shorter walk for them to Biden’s moderate Dem position.
Please, for the love of all that’s good and holy, DO NOT stay home and note vote in November if Bernie isn’t the Dem candidate. I’m so sick of people pretending their vote doesn’t matter, or acting like bitter spurned lovers, not voting, and then sticking us with increasingly awful Republican Presidents. That’s what gave us Dubya. That’s what gave us Trump. Please just stop doing that. Vote for whoever the Dem candidate is. I held my nose for Hillary. You can hold your nose for Joe.
41
@BrainThink What makes you believe that the Democrats should put faith in moderate Republicans? Why did those moderate Republicans vote for Trump in the first place???
13
@BrainThink I'm hoping Bernie will appeal to those who voted for Trump because they believed he would be something different than all of the classic Washington drones they were sick of. I think a lot of people who voted for Trump claim to have voted with their guts instead of based on his policies, so I think Bernie's anti-Washington establishment attitude will appeal to Trump voters in a way that goes beyond policy.
I doubt that will be enough to turn the tides, but you're right-we have to vote for whoever wins the primary.
11
@BrainThink
This election is about what working class Americans want and need. We have the largest income inequality of all Western nations, we have poor or no healthcare that we can't afford, and we are doubled over with student debt. Add to that the inconvenient truth that the planet is burning. Then compare the Sanders record to Biden on these points. Throw in for good measure the cost of our endless foreign wars.
We see the election of Senator Sanders as our last hope.
21
As conservatives go about their relentless task of destroying everything that America promised of course Bernie's followers are distraught. It is 2020 the world is in transition and we are confused and fearful of the transition.
Bernie is no radical and his policy demands comport well with the desperate needs of a society needing less stress and less insecurity in a future that arrived just yesterday.
8
There are many of us who want different aspects or variations of Bernie’s platform but recognize that he is not the person best able to deliver on any of them. There’s been too much tunnel vision on Bernie by voters unwilling to give stronger candidates a chance. Bernie’s record, accomplishments and temperament have ruled him out for many voters who’ve done their homework.
4
I’m not trying to be provocative, but I keep asking here and elsewhere, “who will pay for Bernie”s programs”? When the reply is “the wealthy”. I ask , “that,means changing the tax codes; how will that pass the Republican Senate”?
If it’s unlikely that changing the tax structure will get passed into law, then, I’m back at my first question, and the answer is, “we can’t pay for these programs”.
My final question, then, is, “what is Bernie”s plan B”?
23
@Patrick alexander
What part of "It costs less" don't you understand?
We are paying for it now. We will be paying LESS for it then.
14
@Patrick alexander yep..."the billionaire class" consists of somewhere between 400-500 people with an average wealth of 2 billion dollars. Pretty sure that does not add up to 60 trillion.
2
@Patrick alexander
Bernie's "plan B" is actually what has always been his "plan A": Exploit the anxiety and problems of the vulnerable by demanding that he can somehow wield the government to turn their fortunes, then, have those ideas be resoundingly rejected by the majority, then use his failure and defeat to justify and amplify the class-based rage and division he's cultivated amongst his base. He want's to be defeated, because then he can remain ideologically pure and comfortable in the fact that he'll never have to actually deliver on his promises. He is doing an incredible disservice to our country, and just like Trump, he's using his base as political pawns to further his own image.
6
Bernie is not only about "class."
He is about a future for people who work for a living. Right now, there is not much future.
There won't be a future, on the right wing course of the right wing of the Democratic Party. It will just keep getting worse.
They trot out the old standby arguments about social issues. Those are what they sell to us, the price being our future, or wages, or hopes for economic security. But they say we won't *entirely* lose abortion, though they'll let it become more rare and more difficult every passing year. "Legal but rare" was how they put that.
We have been played for suckers. The game was rigged. Our future right now is bleak. That is not class warfare, it is survival.
10
@Mark Thomason "That is not class warfare..." What's wrong with class warfare when it's appropriate? BTW, the difference today is that the pie has stopped growing and the so-called 1% take most of it. Politicians need to adapt to a continually changing world, but today, it we do not unite and win the White House, there will be no tomorrow for democracy. Then class warfare will not be enough.
3
I'd describe myself as a "liberal capitalist." However, there are components of our capitalist society that need a socialized approach. Health care is certainly one of the cornerstones. But going from a vastly private industry directly into a government run, single payer system is way too draconian to fly. Believe it or not, we need to take baby steps to get there. I think a 10 year plan would be a good start.
2.7 million jobs are tied up in the private health insurance industry. Does anyone think it would be a smooth transition to go immediately into a government run system?
4
@XXX
The attempt to get us to a better healthcare system will happen when Bernie is elected. Then we will see what will work by what the traitor party can be got to vote for. They will either shoot themselves in the feet and be voted out in the midterms or they will finally for the first time in 40 years actually do their job of working for all of the people's best interests.
Until then your discussion is at best diversionary. To my eye it is a sly way of campaigning against Bernie by trying to make it seem that one of the things he wants to do is "impossible" thus he won't be a good president.
3
@XXX
It doesn’t happen instantly but instead of going over policy the media is more concerned with screaming socialism and putting a new set of bankers in charge that were the same bankers before.
3
The People Who See Bernie Sanders as Their Only Hope could just as easily be a headline that reads The People Who See Donald Trump as Their Only Hope.
That is problem I see. It is the similarities between the two groups who see only one person as the solution with no room for the compromise that always defined America. These are the similarities that allow Sander supporters to say "if Bernie doesn't win I won't vote" or "I will vote for Trump if Bernie doesn't win", which are in fact the same thing. A vote for Trump.
That said, it seems that the answer is obvious and staring us in the face. Sanders and Biden need to work together, possibly with others such as Warren, to form a combined force to win the election behind whoever wins the nomination. The people supporting the other candidates have to feel there is a place for them as represented in the campaign, VP, and potential cabinet or adviser positions.
8
@Marie
Media has framed it as such for awhile now. It works for moderates to dismiss them more easily.
2
Don't these supporters know that Bernie has been in the Senate for a million years and has done nothing on his agenda? The ACA, limited as it is, was passed after pitched battles with the GOP and losses I the midterm. How would Bernie suddenly be able to go much further with government spending? By screaming at people? Given that apparently hasn't worked in the Senate? I want change too but think the coalition Biden is assembling can do it. I hope we can all work together including Bernie supporters!
20
@Granny
Actually, it is totally untrue that Bernie has "done nothing" in the Senate. He is called "The Amendment King" and has brokered many, many deals.
4
@Granny I agree with you here. AOC has done more in her short time than Bernie in his whole career. I'm not a socialist democrat, but I can see a leader when I see one. He is no leader. And the next president has to face and work with the GOP to get their agenda accomplished. Even Trump has had some push back at times. He has not gotten everything he has wanted. Obama has to fight ferociously for any part of his agenda he with the GOP in Congress. Bernie would get nowhere.
1
@Granny
"The ACA, limited as it is, was passed after pitched battles with the GOP and losses I the midterm. "
The pitched battles existed since the center-tight Democrats did not want to do any damage to their corporate clients and were afraid to hold the Senate Republicans to the fire on issues that deep in their Democratic heart they shared.
Their loss in the mid-terms was the beginning of the abandonment of the middle and left of the party that realized Obama was as fraudulent as Clinton to the needs of the working class and poor, not to mention much of the middle class. Obama and Clinton went on as successful $500,000 speech makers to the corporations they helped.
3
I was struck by the conviction of a supporter I met that if Sanders isn’t the candidate we will have four more years of Trump.
8
@B.Ro yeah, because his supporters would vote for Trump again. Ugh...
Their hopes lie in electing someone who can bring Sanders' proposed policies into action, and, sadly, Senator Sanders is not that person in 2020. His shot was in 2016. Now is the time for the D's to seriously incorporate these ideas into their platform. I think Bloomburg really summarized what the D's should stand for, and he was smart enough to see that he could not deliver these policies himself, but he would do his darndest to make them happen. Senator Sanders and his supporters, and I am one, should do the same. Sadly, Senator Warren was forced to drop out, but, perhaps, she should be on the ticket with J. Biden if the D's want to unite the Party.
7
@Eric Key
You believe Bloomberg? I’m sorry but that is absurd.
3
@Eric Key Warren would definitely enhance Biden's bid. Probably anyone who was still in the Democratic primary race in January would strengthen Biden's ticket. Would the Biden supporters who are afraid change will somehow hurt Biden and help Trump select a true progressive over Klobuchar or Harris? Maybe we just do need to recuperate from the vile behavior of the low-life Trump and his enablers in this Republican Congress.
@Mathias So you disagree with his position on healthcare, minimum wage, affordable housing, etc? I am not asking you about him a president, I am asking you about his positions?
1
I do not know that whether Biden can defeat Trump or not but I am sure that Bernie can not defeat Trump in general election. The American voters are not ready to elect a self declared socialist and most of the voters do not like class warfare. I love Bernie but I know he is not electable and that is the reason I am for Biden. I am always scared of the Purists. Lot of purists did not vote anybody in 2016 and the result was Trump's win. The election is between two candidates and vote for the better one who may not be the perfect. Bottom line we have to defeat Trump . Very simple.
8
@ASHRAF CHOWDHURY
Going to be hard to do it when the media goes on assault to discredit and dismiss progressives. Republicans will also attack them to delegitimize them.
So why should they vote for Biden if he doesn’t have progressives on his team and instead places bankers who are no different than the ones we have now with Trump?
What is he giving us to justify casting our votes for him? Nothing deserves nothing.
3
Democratic leaders and moderates have made it painfully clear that they do not want progressives in their party. I had believed Democrats were all in favor of expanding access to health care and education, but the full-blown panic that ensued after Bernie Sanders won the early primaries disabused me of that notion. Moderates and progressives do not want the same things, do not believe the same things, do not see the world in the same way.
16
@Glassyeyed
"Democratic leaders and moderates have made it painfully clear that they do not want progressives in their party. "
True, but they somehow want those supporters to come out and vote for them in elections anyway.
5
@Glassyeyed
Agreed. But want our votes yet yield nothing to allow us a voice.
3
Working at a university, I see mostly middle and upper middle class white kids supporting Bernie. They scream of poverty while driving vehicles few of us employees could afford. They demand fancy dorms and recreation facilities, driving up college costs. They party away student loan money and then want the loans erased. Overall, the Bernie supporters I see are as self-absorbed as their leader. No thanks. I guess that makes me a billionaire member of the establishment?
14
@woodyrd
Anecdotal.
Why do you want them to pay the banks instead of directly taxed to pay for educational infrastructure. One extracts wealth away from education.
We likely could already pay for everyone’s education off the debt students service.
Also college students tend to be more anti-establishment and focused on social issues. Just because someone drives a nice car doesn’t mean they don’t support policy that benefits the whole community and drives down costs.
We are currently paying more and getting less in education and medical. Bernies M4A is cheaper than Bidens plan and covers everyone. Education is necessary for the mobilization of society and as a past student I would rather have funded it through taxation over my life than handing money to banks as they extract wealth fro society.
Directly is cheaper. Education and medical is necessary for all of us. They aren’t optional.
The optional stuff can stay with the capitalist where we can afford to let it fail.
3
@woodyrd
Re: "They party away student loan money and then want the loans erased."
That is one weird university. As a volunteer in the Bernie campaign, all the Bernie supporters I see support the idea of shifting financing the country toward strengthening the citizenry, and away from concentrating wealth among a few people.
3
@woodyrd Agreed. I work in college counseling and the biggest Bernie supporters are students who refused to consider anything but the most expensive colleges they could get into, then complain that they’re expected to pay for it.
Warren Buffet explained it like this:
The US spends ~18% of our GDP on healthcare while
other developed countries spend ~11% of their GDP on
comparable healthcare.
The additional 7% of of our GDP translates into a cool
1.4 Trillion dollars *extra* that the US spend on healthcare,
*every year*.
And still we end up with millions uninsured or underinsured
Explain that away. !!!
17
I'm 25. I've grown up in a world consisting of the Iraq War, Katrina, the Great Recession, and Donald Trump. Student debt plagues our generation and costs are higher than ever while wages are stagnant. It has not been a good last few decades for young people in America.
For these reasons, we are tired of the status quo. It doesn't work for most, only the wealthiest. Like many others, being raised on the Internet has also exposed me to a range of perspectives from a wide number of people all over the world. We talk to people in Canada and Europe who take for granted free healthcare and education while we are told by our very "pragmatic" elites and experts that we can't achieve or afford those things. We are told by the media and pundits that the economy is working well while the poverty rate has virtually remained the same for decades, and millions of Americans can't afford health care, live in poverty, and are crippled by debt. We see the impending doom of climate change on the horizon and are told we can't afford to do what is required. We are frankly sick and tired of being told we can't achieve things by generations that allowed many of these problems to happen in the first place. Bernie is just one person. But he not only understands these problems, he offers solutions. And he's the only one doing so.
36
@BReed 25 is plenty old enough to recognize that, sure Bernie *may* understand these problems and *may* have solutions, he will not be able to implement a single one of them. You are most certainly old enough to recognize that not one single Republican will work with him. You are definitely old enough to recognize that most Democrats that are closer to the middle understand that forcing extremes on to people only makes those people go on the defensive.
So, you are most certainly old enough to recognize that his "solutions" aren't solutions at all if there's no chance to enact them.
3
@BReed
I graduated right into the Great Recession back when you were still a child, 10 yrs my junior. I knew that my future depended on getting a job and keeping it no matter what. I started in a decidedly not-glamorous industry, showed up every day ready to work extremely long hours, lived within my means (didn't wear cool sneakers or have the at-the-time brand new to market iPhone, which DEFINITELY made you cool back then), contributed to my retirement plan even though the market was in free-fall, and never lost sight of what I needed to do to get to the next step- build a good reputation, develop meaningful expertise, make contacts in my industry, and avoid the temptation of blaming surrounding circumstances for set-backs rather than taking responsibility for my own decisions. It's not just "boomers" preaching this advice- there are millions of people much closer to your age living it. Fast-forward to now, and we have Bernie fans labeling people like me as "establishment" "status quo" and I guess attributing success to dumb luck at their expense.
I get it, this is just one anecdote in response to your one anecdote, but the point is, for whatever its worth- don't waste your 20's blaming the "elite" and waiting for the gov't to bail you out. 20's are the most important years to set your course in life.
22
@BReed Well to begin with Health care and Education are not free in Canada. We pay for health care with our taxes. Education is not free in Canada, period. Student debt is a reality here as well. Nothing is free.
1
"The Sanders campaign has exposed a class divide within the Democratic Party: His promises of a leg up are most alluring to those who need it, and most confounding to those who do not."
I would suggest to all those "confounded" by the policies Sanders proposes, that they consider the possibility that it is not an ideological difference that has them perplexed.
The source of their confusion is either that they don't realize how economically precarious many Americans are - or that they are lacking in compassion regarding the plight of those Americans who are struggling.
22
@Ed Watters
What I don’t understand is their comment of how we are going to pay for it.
We pay more. M4A is cheaper especially in the long run. It saves us money we can spend elsewhere.
Education ran through massive debts costs us more. Pay for it directly. This next generation will be financing so much debt they probably could pay for everyone twice over if we bypassed the banks.
4
I'm supporting Biden, but I feel for these people. If I were in their shoes I'd probably be all-in for Sanders, too.
My hope is that Bernie and his supporters have gotten the dem's attention and the party leaders will remember that their purpose is to focus on the needs of the working class.
Enough with the empty promises, platitudes, identity politics and inaction. Leave that to the republicans.
7
@Randy
So far not a chance. Biden has already picked multiple bankers and walled off progressives.
The very people bailed out in the last recession will be put into positions to funnel large amounts of wealth into their hands in the next recession.
All You Need to Know': Biden Reportedly Weighing Billionaires Michael Bloomberg and Jamie Dimon for Cabinet Posts
"The establishment wing of the party didn't fall into line behind Biden despite the fact that he'd put Bloomberg and Jamie Dimon in his cabinet. They did it because of that. This is who they are." byJake Johnson,
3
I am sympathetic to some of Sanders ideas. Yes, our health care and insurance system is a mess. Nobody should be able to have their life savings wiped out by a medical emergency. Yes, college has gotten significantly more expensive since I went in the late 80's and early 90's.
Where I differ is that in what to do. Do we just throw out all private health insurance and start new (something even the UK does not do)? How exactly are you going to accomplish that in a divided country where 18% of the population controls half of the senate and Trump has stacked the courts with conservative judges? The devil of any plan is in the details and in it's execution. And Bernie is big on platitudes but low on details.
And are we just going to make college free for all instead of looking at why its gotten so expensive in the first place? (drastic increase of administrators, cuts in state and federal funding). Who gets their student debt wiped out and what is the limit to how much? Should someone who unwisely took on 100K in debt for a useless degree get as much of their debt wiped out as someone who worked their way through college and took on minimal debt for a marketable degree that will significantly raise their standard of living? What about those who have worked their behinds off to pay back loans and just finished? Do they get anything for their sacrifice?
Bernie is a very good at generating ideals but I see no evidence that he's any good at implementing them.
4
@Gunnar
I believe that Bernies team will act ethically and clean up things on the executive side. It also legitimizes the goals.
If a Biden wins they will shout from the mountains all of the progressive issues were illegitimate and rejected in whole.
3
@Gunnar
"Bernie is a very good at generating ideals but I see no evidence that he's any good at implementing them."
What exactly, other than the jimmy rigged and failing third-rate health program, did Obama get done?
2
@Glenn "What exactly, other than the jimmy rigged and failing third-rate health program, did Obama get done?"
Well, Obama got exactly one more public health care plan passed than Bernie will ever be able to get done. Republicans and centrist Democrats make up the majority of congress and the senate. These are facts that are not going to change anytime soon.
I'd rather have one flawed Obamacare plan that we can incrementally build on over a plan Bernie can't get passed because he is inflexible and continually antagonizes the very centrists he's going to need to implement any of his promised "revolution".
I understand the economic concerns and how promises can allay them. I can’t understand being foolish enough to think it’d be affordable or work the way Bernie promises.
Can anyone believe government run medical care would provide better care than private insurance? Is the post-office better than FedEx? If it was why is FedEx in business? Is a health department clinic better than a private office?
I realize Canadians don’t declare bankruptcy over medical debt but they don’t get immunotherapy for cancer either. They wait 3 months to see a neurosurgeon and weeks for an MRI.
Sanders said at the Vegas debate Medicare for All will be better than private insurance. Who believes this? Why isn’t Sanders on Medicare in that case? It’s already projected to cost $40 trillion; for which his tax increases leave us $17 trillion short (WSJ). When it’s better than private insurance it’ll be how much?
Does anyone believe pharma will innovate when they can no longer make a profit? Who thinks hospitals can survive in Medicare reimbursements? When asked how Bernie said less paperwork. Give me an example of a government solution which results in less paperwork!
I understand the problems but adults don’t just create villains and think punishing them solves the problem. Marxists do that. It won’t work.
Americans are too smart to elect to pay the debts of others who chose educations they couldn’t afford and make more money.
We’re too smart to elect a Marxist fraud no matter who he vilifies.
3
@HGreenberg 'others who chose educations they couldn’t afford and make more money.'
What a sad world we live in, where education should serve only to prepare one for generating as much capital as possible.
Additionally, there will always be private options for health insurance - but there should also be a public option, so that nobody has to file bankruptcy because they need care. In the UK you have the NHS, and private insurers if you have the means to pay - in exchange to shorter lines for non-life-threatening health concerns - much like your FedEx analogy.
There were medical breakthroughs for the good of humanity before we put profits first. Why can't we put people, or humanity before profit for a change?
3
Biden is choosing big name bankers to fill out his cabinet which are hostile to progressives and promote republican economics.
They will run all solutions like education through them. Students have been blocked from bankruptcy. Would you give an 18 year old 100,000 loan with no job? Is that ethical?
How much will they pay for that loan? The country is financing 1.5 trillion in student debt. Created debt slaves so banks can ignore their fiduciary duty if finding credit worthy individuals and is upset they see a Bernie targeting their income stream.
With all that money to debt these students could fund education directly through taxation and no debt. The question America needs to ask is do you want education paid directly with education available for everyone or do you simply want to finance banks and throw massive amounts of money at them.
Biden is putting bankers in charge. The face will change but the economic issues we face will remain with his administration. They may even assist republicans as they are highly aligned when on economic issues in the US.
Their solutions always revolving around extracting wealth for bankers. Students pay their 5% tax to them regularly for the rest of their adult lives.
10
Where do you get your information? Are Amy, Pete, Cor, Kamala banker's? Look at Obama's Cabinet: experts and scientists. I heard Biden last night: President should be quiet and let the scientists speak.
1
RE: "Those Democrats, she believes, have never done all that much to deliver the promise of the American dream....
Politics has always been "the art of the possible". Some want to change what is possible. But there are always constraints and compromises of some sort whether it is the opposing party, pubic opinion, funding, timing, whatever. I would argue that while Democrats may have not delivered the American dream sufficiently for this person what they have done and can do far outweighs the current administration that is actually tearing the dream down part by part right before our eyes. We may not all get what we want from the Democratic primary but use that as an excuse to not participate will result in even less of the American dream for the vast majority of us.
3
I see that my comments have generated a lot of push back. Excellent. Were I to make such comments to a less left leaning audience, they would be seconded and even touted.
It may simply show that the east and west coast inhabitants are out of step with our heartland; not surprising, really.
We have kicked the can down the road so many times - income inequality, prejudice, educational opportunity, healthcare for all citizens, Global Warming, unsustainable economic plan of continued growth, growth, growth - we are now faced with the need for rapid, drastic action. We were warned again and again - for 20 years and we have done nothing.. Sanders is the only one who understands this and will try his hardest to actually implement the only choice the planet has left - political and societal revolution. Otherwise we face extinction. The time has come - don't get fooled again...
7
here's other Bernie supporters. Bernie ignored them and it hampered his own cause:
In an MSNBC interview hours after dropping out of the race, Rachel Maddow asked Warren to weigh in on the "untoward attacks by Senator Sanders' supporters...against you." Maddow referenced attacks calling the Massachussetts Senator a "snake" and a "traitor."
After Warren lost every Super Tuesday state, placing no higher than third in any race, she faced online pressure from Sanders' supporters to drop out and endorse him. When Warren left the race, she did so without making an endorsement. On Twitter, a subset of purported Sanders supporters claimed that Warren was hurting his chances for being the nominee.
"It's not just about me, I think it's a real problem with this online bullying and sort of organized nastiness," Warren said. "I'm talking about some really ugly stuff that went on."
When Maddow asked if Warren if bad behavior online was a particular problem with Sander's supporters, Warren replied affirmatively: "It is. It just is. It's just a factual question, and it is."
As an example, Warren said that before the Nevada caucuses, rogue Sanders supporters attacked women with the labor union Unite Here, "actually published the phone numbers and home addresses of the two women, immigrant women...and really put them in fear for their families."
2
@Tim
“Union officials also raised concerns about a commenter on a Nevada Independent article that referred to members of the Culinary Union, who hail from 178 countries and speak more than 40 different languages, as “illegals,” though a review of posts by the Independent suggests the commenter is a Trump supporter who opposes Medicare for all, not a Sanders supporter.”
https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/culinary-union-officials-face-profanity-laced-attacks-after-scorecard-says-sanders-would-end-their-health-care
Snake emojis? You realize progressives are constantly under assault by vileness? Look at AOC who receives death threats, has rape pictures posted by federal agents and is constantly barraged by vile words. Look at what Omar faced. Look at what progressive media faces constantly. Death threats are common.
It is absolutely wrong to do such things and Sanders has condemned it as well as progressives many times. But snake emojis?
Check out John Iadarola if you want a fresh view instead of listening to the media that is laying on the scales.
4
If you want to know why so many people see Bernie as “their only hope”, you only have to look at what the Democratic Party has become as embodied by Joe Biden.
It’s not just that Biden has repeatedly called for cuts to Medicare and Social Security. It’s that he lied about it. And LIED about it again and again.
It’s not just that Biden was one of the main “Democratic” leaders who helped “legitimize” (read “mystify”) the “REAGAN REVOLUTION”, it’s that he lied about it. And he has lied about it again and again.
And where is the mainstream media when it comes to highlighting Joe’s actual positions and his lies about them?
Too much of mainstream America is in a hissy-fit about the dangers of Socialism when Bernie’s Socialism heartens back to common sense American conceptions of decency and to a time LONG AGO when someone could proudly (and stubbornly) call himself a Socialist while still regularly voting as a Republican.
7
@Joseph F. Panzica
They make excuses. Joe promotes austerity for workers and always has. All his policy lines up with austerity we can’t afford it principles while the banks hand out loans and take their cut.
What’s a tax but serviced debt. Do we want to service the banks or fund infrastructure?
2
This candidate is unyielding and zealous, just like his supporters. In all his years in Congress, Sen. Sanders has not passed one major legislation because he thinks compromise is wrong. He almost single-handedly tanked the Affordable Care Act because he wanted it to be his way or not at all. He may be principled but he is ineffective. It’s great to believe strongly in something and want to accomplish things. But if you won’t work with others to achieve at least some of what you believe is in this country’s best interest, you are not being a leader. Isn’t that what we’re suffering with the current occupant of the White House now? We don’t need another narcissistic demagogue, this time at the other end of the political spectrum.
8
@Brigid McAvey
Might want fighters to go against republicans. They are only going to pass their agenda. And people who surrender before they begin will never achieve their stated goals.
Would you hire a businesses leader who did that? Not a chance.
1
@Mathias Of course we want fighters to go against Republicans. But the Bernie supporters, as they did in 2016 refused to vote for the Democratic nominee. At the DNC in 2016, avid Bernie supporter Sarah Silverman made a speech begging Sanders supporters to put aside their pain and pride and PLEASE vote for Hillary Clinton. She was loudly booed. Unyielding zealots. Eyes on the prize: Defeat Trump!
That he does well with the uneducated isn't necessarily a selling point. Trump does as well. Same for his success with the white working class. Trump has that, too.
2
@SouthernHusker
Isn’t that the voters they said Joe would reach to win the election?
I keep hearing Bernie is an independent. Isn’t that what we are trying to win?
3
I am at a loss how people think Biden is more electable than Sanders, except it has been drilled into the public by virtually every media outlet ad nauseam. This is despite polls showing Sanders almost always beating Trump...just check out realclearpolitics.com showing out of 88 recent polls only 5 show Trump (slightly) beating Sanders.
9
@JK voter suppression. Young and minority voters will not be able to vote where it counts. We saw this in Texas with the closing of polling stations in areas with high concentrations of young and minority voters. Yes perhaps in Califonia, Colorado and New York we might see an upswing of this voters. I'm not so sure of this in the swing states.
2
Sanders will continue to over-simplify the story of NAFTA: Joe Biden allowed brown people in Mexico to steal your jobs. Bernie will ignore the salvation of a North American supply chain in the face of Asian/China region competitors ( yellow people) and robots. He'll play a card that worked well for Trump. Shame on Bernie. It would be tougher to explain tax laws that favor out-sourcing and foreign investors. And he couldn't blame that on Joe.
1
I'm hearing this: Younger people, "progressive" people, are unwilling to wait and save and improve their positions in life and want Mr. Sanders and people like him to tax others, who have done the legwork, and relieve them of their responsibilities so they can have everything RIGHT NOW!!
That's not America.
3
My apology for this non sequitur, but every time I read something about the upcoming presidential election, I have a sense I’ve seen this play out before. On the one hand, I’m reminded of the 1972, 1984, and 1988 elections when the Democratic Party didn’t rise to the occasion and offered mediocre candidates against ruthless opponents. On the other hand, it feels like our nation has ossified when we are given two septuagenarians to choose from for national leadership. We look like the Soviet Union in the early 1980s and we all know how that ended. One modest proposal, lets start the primaries off with California, Texas, Florida, and New York, rather than starting with states sparsely populated with pig farmers or libertarian tax refugees. We might get truly representative candidates next time.
5
Bernie Sanders supporters want a piece of the American dream the Baby Boomers already have. Older generations may not realize that a lot of the reason they have what they do was because circumstances were different for them then. Wages have stagnated. Childcare is so expensive the American population is declining. Unaddressed climate change is threatening the future of the planet. We can't afford college because we are burdened with too much debt afterward. But we can't afford not to go either because a job without it doesn't pay the bills. Rents have gone way up. Then we have the healthcare problem that hasn't been solved. Great Britain has had universal healthcare nearly 80 years now. And we still can't get our act together! Is it any wonder younger folks are impatient?
We would like to be able to afford to have a child, take a vacation, or not worry about going to the doctor. Baby Boomers no longer have to worry about these things. And Joe Biden is now our alternative. He's a nice guy but clearly losing it mentally. Our hopes are dashed again and we will have to wait another four or eight years. Sanders certainly couldn't have gotten it all done, but he would have made these things a priority. Knowing Trump will be out of office is small comfort when little else will change.
88
@Kristin I understand your points, but I also think there are a lot of people out there in the 26-50 age range, myself included, who are doing the things you claim we can’t: working good jobs with health care, raising families, owning homes, taking vacations... The media needs to do a better job of covering these issues but unfortunately Bernie is preaching to a small choir which is why the majority are backing Biden.
7
@Kristin Please enlighten me about the piece of the American dream I supposedly have. Was it the part where I worked four jobs? Was it going in debt to get a master's degree so that I, as a woman, could get a decent paying job? Was it the part where I discovered I would have to work well into my 70s because of an injury when I was in my 40s? Please tell me. I want to know.
11
@Kristin
I hear and understand the struggles you have listed.
Other than the notion of "universal healthcare" what other alternatives is Bernie Sanders suggesting regarding childcare, cheaper rents, higher wages and affordable college tuition?
Every person who lives in my condo are 65 or older. Every one of them are still paying off their mortgages and college loans. Their social security is not much because they never consistently had a decent paying job. Even their medicare costs are not cheap because they are still responsible for a portion of the bill.
I know a lot of grandparents taking care and/or raising the grand kids because their son or daughter is unable.
While I do empathize with the many roadblocks in your way, please remember that not every Baby Boomer is living the dream. Frankly, I know a lot of folks who are struggling financially and they are not just Millennials.
I do not know if Bernie Sanders is the answer. But should he get elected and should Mitch McConnell remain as the Senate Majority Leader, then he will do everything in his power to prevent Sanders or Biden from getting ANYTHING accomplished, resolved or fixed, including the many problems you cited.
The real key is to get Trump out, retain the House and take back the Senate.
I sincerely wish and hope for better things for you Kristin.
11
Because people see politics as a zero-sum game, when Sanders speaks to the issues faced by people like this the ruling class cries poverty and demagogues Sanders as coming for middle-class wallets. People with some economic success see themselves as hard-working and deserving of what they have, and don’t see the myriad ways good fortune and luck have blessed them.
It is probably too late for Sanders to turn this primary around, but what he has done is bring people like this out of the shadows. All of us who see that unfettered capitalism isn’t delivering on its promises are more visible to each other. That’s not nothing.
10
@Claude
Is Biden going to put prominent respected progressives in his cabinet and fight? If not it is zero sum. Their voice is silenced.
1
I will vote for Bernie if he gets the nomination. That being said, if his supporters don’t see a difference between Biden and Trump, I’m not sure what to think.
10
@Ziggy
Who is behind them? Who do they put into positions of power? You don’t think the republican bankers and wealthy don’t know the Democratic ones? Don’t see the revolving door?
Are they that different? Joe says Trump is an aberration. Which means the past policies were good. Nothing needs to change. Will he enable republicans? Has he enabled them in the past? Will he fight them or simply run cover?
Trump is honestly vile. We see it and there is no doubt. Trumps cabinet is composed of some of the wealthiest people in the world. Might be the wealthiest to date. Is Bidens any different?
Mar 9, 2020 - Politics & Policy
Joe Biden's secret governing plan
Axios
Jim VandeHei, Mike Allen
2
As a physician in my 60s, I am not one of those who support Sanders because it would help my financial situation. In fact, many of my colleagues feel I'm a fool for supporting him because a Sanders' presidency might end up making my taxes higher.
However, I recognize that the only answer to all the problems patients experience with the healthcare system is a single player system. It may reduce physicians' incomes especially those who perform procedures that are often unnecessary but it would improve the health of the population which is what I always assumed was supposed to be the goal of physicians and also the health insurance industry.
And as far as that free college education goes, I had a number of relatives including my mother who went to college at Hunter College or City College of New York for free. In fact, many of our greatest scientists, doctors, lawyers, and those in many other professions might never have gotten a college education during the Great Depression and gone on to make their contributions except for the free college education offered by the City of New York.
35
It's so much more than a class divide.
Bernie's candidacy carries a "Yes we can" message that starkly contrasts Biden's "Nothing will fundamentally change" one.
DNC candidates have tacked right since Reagan, afraid of their own shadow, standing up for the 99%. What we have in our grasp with Bernie is the political imagination to do things that our party has stood for but not worked for.
Unlike Obama, a Sanders presidency would see an engaged electorate working to get Congress to be where we need them to be.
If we nominate Biden, Trump will mop the floor with him as Biden has none of Clinton's strengths, is clearly being shielded from the public as he declines cognitively, and so many contrasting points one wants to make about Trump can be effectively made against Biden.
And then there is Climate Change. We can't work on any of the other things if we don't limit our planet's response to our previous behavior. As Warren would say, Bernie has a plan for that. Biden? "Nothing will fundamentally change".
Vote accordingly.
34
@Jeff S.
Bla Bla Bla.. In order to pass all this Liberal Utopian "free stuff" It's got it pass through the Senate!
College kids only vote in Presidential elections.. Senate elections are meaningless to them.. Turn the Senate BLUE and perhaps one day all of us be driving free electric cars, herding goats and eating kale while wearing a pale blue unisex jump suit.. until then Biden is as good as it gets..
1
I find "medicare for all" misleading and naive. having the government take over is not the only way other countries do it. not even nominal copays explodes demand. medicare advantage, which is government funded private insurance, is hugely popular.
3
@dk That insurance is HIGHLY REGULATED and yet is still more expensive than single payer ... just ask the Swiss.
3
@dk and yet this country remains the only developed western industrialized nation without universal health care. This fact, in and of itself, proves that your argument is not valid. The only person who is mislead and naive here is you.
4
It would be smarter for people to get behind Biden, help him get elected, instead of Trump--which is what will happen if they don't--and then keep constructive pressure on Biden for at least the beginnings of necessary changes.
We are not now in a situation where the Bernie agenda is at all feasible, but that doesn't mean giving up on the economic changes he is championing. The big hurdle for these folks is to realize--and accept--that incremental progress is the way to lasting change. It may feel good to yell and be stubborn, but it will not alter the even more stubborn status quo.
13
@Allen
How can we achieve it if the people we voted in aren’t fighting for it nor believe in it?
We have to push them how?
1
@Allen Easy for you to say if you are not one of them.
It's not the least bit surprising that Ms. Estrada, who at age 39, as a fitness instructor and student, with her 21 year old son, is struggling financially. They're called life choices and people, generally speaking, need to make better ones instead of asking others to subsidize their poor mistakes. Now, perhaps there are specifics about Ms. Estrada's (and the others) circumstance that tell a different story. And making better choices obviously isn't a catch-all solution - some of Bernie's policies make sense - but I think if you're going to trot out folks aiming to garner sympathy, their circumstances deserve a bit more scrutiny.
4
@Eric I agree -- being a single mother at 18 is not a smart life choice and, in fact, any couple who chooses to have a kid without totally understanding the financial ramifications of that choice are also not making a smart choice.
People make bad decisions and expect someone else to pay the freight for them.
@Eric
You don't know why she became a single mother at 18. Perhaps she had no access to birth control, abortion, or sex education. Sadly that's often the problem even here in the USA. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
1
I like Bernie's goals, but I don't believe he is electable or if he is elected that he will actually gain the popular support he claims he will need to get his program passed.
I am convinced that he and his supporters refusal to support Hillary in 2016 lead to Trump's election. I am afraid they will do the same thing in 2020 and we will get another 4 years of Trump.
17
@David Liebtag And? We are not going to vote for yet another republican-light Neo-liberal corporate owned Democrat like Biden this time ether. We told you that about Clinton and you didn't believe us. We told you the day that Trump won the election that if you nominated another person like Clinton we wouldn't vote for them and as we see you obviously didn't believe us again. You only have yourself to blame because the democrats refuse to listen and keep doing what ever the want regardless. I, and the vast majority of the progressives I know will not vote for Biden. So enjoy allowing Trump to have another $ years. We don't have to change, You and the rest of the mainstream Neo-liberal centrist democrats do.
2
I would be one of those better off people on the other side of the class divide, and yet, I voted Warren and was torn between her and Sanders. I am lucky to have a very stable Job and income, but that doesn’t mean that I am not able to see that the path to this seems cut off for younger generations and support policies such as $15 minimum wage and Medicaid for all. There was a time in my life when I struggled to complete my education and go to graduate school. I have not forgotten that and I recognize that it’s even harder now. If there’s a divide in the party, perhaps it’s caused by independent and moderate Republicans now taking a look who favor Biden. this is the case for my formerly Republican brother in law. For him Sanders is a bridge too far but he can get behind Biden.  frankly it seems to me a little irresponsible for the authors of this article to be stoke in the fires of class wars among Democrats when much more complicated than what this article presents.
9
The Main Rreason That Democratic Party Lost to Trump in 2016 was because They Were Not Fighting For Something,but They Were Only Fighting To Stop Something (Fascism and Racism) or Somebody (Trump). It seems like Democrats are trying to repeat the same mistakes this year; both in The Primary (Stop Sanders) and The General (Stop Trump). History shows that Voters Respond To A Campaign That Offers Something or Ideas than the one that's just against something or ideas or Somebody. Democrats must come up with a Clear Vision and Irresistible Brand. Like him or not,Trump has an irresistible Brand called " Make America Great Again". Instead of offering their own irresistible Brand,Hillary and the Obamas wasted their time and energy trying to prove that America is already great. As we now know,many voters didn't believe that America is already great. Among all the two dozens democratic candidates,it's only one that has a Brand which is "For All" in terms of Medicare For All,Public Colleges For All,Government Should Work For All,Housing For All,This Country For All and not for the few wealthy people,and he also has a Motto which is " Not me,Us". Can anyone tell me the Brand or even the Motto of Joe Biden besides "Defeat Trump" and "I'm The Most Electable" ? While defeating Trump might be the number one goal of tribal Democrats,it might not be the number one goal of Independent and Swing Voters who actually decide the outcome of any presidential election.
3
Your gripe might be with Bernie supporters who aren’t bothering to vote, don’t you think?
2
I plan to vote for Bernie Sanders for the same reasons as many in the article mentioned. The status quo is a failure for everyone but corporate interests and the affluent. I'm tired of living in a nation where I, and everyone I know, endlessly worries about being left destitute over medical bills, or the terror of an unexpected accident. Our health insurance system is nothing but an extortion racket, endlessly surprising us with unexpected bills, exploding costs for crucially needed medications, or outright denial for needed treatment. It's inexcusable. Everyone I know has horror stories. Centrists and Republicans, however, think it's just fine as it is.
The economic collapse of 2008 destroyed me financially. I was unemployed for a year, and under-employed for many years afterward. I'm still barely treading water. Yet, I repeatedly saw feckless political obedience to Wall Street and Silicon Valley while most of us were left to struggle and drown.
The climate crisis terrifies me. Progressives like Bernie understand the existential threat of climate change and that it requires immediate and bold action. There's no more time for edge-nibbling. We need a Green New Deal.
I've been a Democratic voter since I turned 18. I'm tired of my party endlessly telling us to just "wait a little longer" for solutions that are half-measures, or never arrive. Enough is enough. We need real, progressive change.
13
@Dominic
Please tell me by electing Sanders how he is going get his and yours policies passed? That to me is the problem without a majority of both the house and senate none of those polices will get passed.
These people that want change need to work at all levels of government to get people elected who would work for change. As President Obama found that out when he got the Congress to pass the ACA- it was the best he could get and he had both house and senate.
3
Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman and Lyndon Johnson were no Socialists, but they were instrumental in bringing about the New Deal, Social Security and Medicare.
Bernie Sanders is a lifelong, fully committed Socialist with leftist ideas dating back fifty years who a majority of Americans will never follow in creating a Medicare-for-All or a program to erase college debt,
For those jobs you will need a President with no identifiable ties to
Socialism, preferably one who is a rich and successful conservative Republican of the type that barely exists anymore.
Crazy Trump had the political skills to be that man, but he was adverse to taking on the task of developing programs actually designed to help ordinary people..
1
The new deal in today’s dollars cost $780B not $30T
People are struggling with the scale, and don’t have the great depression and dust bowl as a backdrop, but instead low unemployment and an economy that so far has withstood a plague and oil collapse ...
1
50 years of Leftist ideas, no action. Does that tell you something?
Why do people on the one hand brag that we are the richest country in the world and then claim that we cannot afford what every other industrialized nation on earth has: universal health care, affordable or free education, affordable childcare, safety nets for those unable to work or out of work. We have to stop the me first, me only cycle of greed that Reagan championed and start respecting and caring for our fellow man if we are to be a strong and fair country and society.
National polls show Bernie Sanders beating Trump. Sanders is now the only candidate left that is committed to helping the average American. The choice is clear if we are ever going to be an equal society where everyone has a chance at a decent life. The rich will still be enormously rich even if they have to start paying their fair share of taxes to make our country equitable again.
11
And yet many of these supporters vow not to vote for Biden if he’s the nominee, which is essentially a vote for Trump, whose reelection would be devastating not only for them but for those even more vulnerable. It’s morally irresponsible and completely inconsistent with the message. So when these claims of “not me us” and a “movement for the working class” seem insincere when they won’t vote for any nominee besides Bernie.
11
@Matt Brand I am not voting for Biden and I am under no obligation to vote for a democrat since I am no a member of the Democratic party. If you want progressive votes you have nominate a progressive. If the democrats insist on nominating a neo-liberal republican-light corporate democrat why do you think we are going to vote for him? Biden is your problem and your candidate. He doesn't represent my values or support the issues that are important to me.
3
Spoiler alert - Biden routs Sanders tonite.
Making it near impossible to win after tonite, Sanders vouches to go on campaigning.
At the end he and what is left of the Progressive movement whimpers at a far second place until the end.
Had Warren dropped out that Sunday, Sanders would be the one on top, but thanks to her, he bled votes until there were none to give.
Kind of poetic that at the end, it was Warren who ended the Progressive movement in the USA. No one will ever take a progressive candidate serious again.
Super Tuesday was their moment, and she ended it out of selfishness.
2
@AutumnLeaf
That is one thing's that Sanders supporters are good at - always finding someone to blame when he loses.
2
Plain and simple, Sanders is exploiting the struggles of low-income, lower-educated "working class" people; not as a means to enact any kind of effective structural change (because if he was serious about that, he would have demonstrated actual leadership and built the political coalitions necessary to do so decades ago), but to promote himself and his brand of righteous indignation against Americans who have played by the rules, embraced and thrived in our distinctly American capitalistic society.
While dispensing of the notion that one has the sole responsibility to "pull oneself up by the bootstraps", he has presented the lazy alternative of "you've been done to by the "elites" and I'm going to force the government's hand to make it right for you- they will pay!". It's one of the most Anti-American lies, and I view Sanders as acting incredibly irresponsibly by instilling false hope in the vulnerable as a means to further his political brand, as destructive as it may be.
The thing about Sanders is that he *loves* to lose. He uses his special brand of righteous indignation to frame his policy ideas as irrefutably good for people who struggle and deservedly bad for people who, in his view, have been "too successful". Every time he's handed defeat by fair democratic electoral processes, he gets to point and shout that it is proof "the establishment" and "evil billionaire class" will stop at nothing to preserve the "status quo". His schtick won't help his followers.
14
@Ltron Recommending this comment isn't enough. This is such an important observation. I'm of the same generation as many Sanders supporters, but I was raised largely by grandparents who had overcome some of the most overwhelming odds anyone could face in the United States and who imbued in us a sense of gratitude for the opportunities we have and the skills we needed to take advantage of them. That's not to say they didn't recognize the need to continue improving our systems - but it also didn't ignore the importance of the able-bodied and capable taking responsibility.
3
The article's focus on the working class is exactly why Bernie is a stronger candidate than Biden. He appeals to voters who turned to Trump, not by using racism, but class politics. If that makes well off democrats uncomfortable, maybe it's time for them to reevaluate their liberal morals.
6
@Jerry Harris maybe it's time that Bernie actually do something to back up his mouth besides just run for president. He's a million years old and has done nothing to build a coalition of politicians in DC to bring his ideas and policies forward. He has not proven to anyone that he can actually get anything passed and he will not be able to push his agenda as president for he forgets he has to wrestle with Congress and now a conservative court. Executive orders can only go so far and he does not set the budget. There's no beautiful wall yet is there? Warren is a much better candidate than Bernie ever will be, and love him or not Biden has built a coalition and has much better chance of getting policy changes in Congress.
I am not suffering in the way that these people are, but I know that these folk need support.
And while I don’t agree with the political tactics of the Sanders campaign, I understand why they are using them. Desperation isn’t pretty.
It will be dispiriting to these folks to feel rejected politically (as they will be today) but I would urge them to recognize the art of the possible.
Biden, however flawed, can be nudged. He will see the political merits of including people in his administration that will work towards Bernie’s goals. Similarly, Pelosi will too.
While collaboration and compromise may feel like defeat, it is better than the alternative.
10
@Cousy
Better hope you have a plan when they start attacking progressives to divide the base and they have no voice.
Now we are "The People." Well, I am one of them. I get why he is angry, because so am I. In our home, it took an unexpected quadruple bypass surgery to understand how flawed our (un)health system really is.
"Sorry Cardiac rehab is not covered by your insurance." Two deductibles of 4K each, one for 2019 and 2020 cleared our small nest egg quickly. Lifesaving surgery at the end of the year -just not good timing on our end!
For once I am fed up with the two-step we seem to dance in this country. A few steps forward when the democrats win, a few and more backward when the Republican win.
Bernie Sanders gives me hope that things can change. We need this change. Go, Bernie, walk in the shoes of FDR and clean up both sides of the aisle.
I am proud to be one of these people.
18
@Bri
I hear you, but am really worried that voting on PRINCIPLE rather than PRAGMATISM will only give the current administration another term. Folks who want drastic improvements for all Americans need to get a new resident into the White House (and as many other seats as possible) THEN we clean up and start making a path forward.
2
@Bri
I can empathize with your predicament and would love to see universal health care in the US as we have here in Canada. The problem for Sanders is how to get it done because your starting point is very different from what we had here in Canada before universal care (sanders is even proposing to go further than the system we have in Canada by, for example, introducing universal pharmacare). The biggest issue would be a Republican controlled senate that would never allow such legislation to go through. That being said, there are other options just short of universal care (e..g allowing people to buy into Medicare) that would reduce health care costs to individuals that are more practical and would have a higher chance of being implemented. Please search around Google for these proposals.
1
@Bri “I’m proud to be one of those people” and that’s what this and other hand wringing articles don’t get. These people can’t see past their own noses and they take pride in that. They know they might lead to a trump reelection. But they are proud of it. They know Bernie has no chance but they see themselves as heroes in an epic saga. They don’t live in the real world. And they are proud of it.
So the question isn’t how do we get back Bernie folk, they are proud to see trump re-elected if they don’t get their unicorn. The question is how do we win despite them. We need to shore up the African American vote particularly in the suburbs. We need to put black women in the highest levels of leadership and we need to defend the vote for all those who want to see trump removed.
1
Where are these folks on off year elections and local elections? I hope they are similarly engaged. But I keep reading articles about people voting "for the first time" for Mr. Sanders.
That doesn't work. That represents a moon shot vote. That is not strategic, long term thinking.
Always vote for the most progressive candidate, even if such candidate is not perfect. Sitting out and waiting for the ideal candidate is not a recipe for success.
Life doesn't sit around waiting for a messiah.
21
@Will. what makes you think that they will not now be more civically engaged? I understand feeling frustrated with first time voters, that is my tendency as well. However, there is something to be said for Bernie being the first candidate that many folks who are struggling believe would do anything at all to help their situations. It's pretty tough to make a "your vote always counts" argument to someone who genuinely believes that they will be left behind no matter who wins. Bernie is the first time that many voters *don't* feel that way. That's something worth celebrating.
2
We ought to live in a country where everyone can live well. We have significantly more resources then are necessary to accomplish that goal.
People in the comments seem to focus on the concept of "free" and how other people will pay for their fellow peoples' basic needs. They ignore the fact that these people are paying the cost of the exploitative systems we have in place that must mathematically lead to greater inequality. The poor are paying for your privilege with their lives.
In these circumstances, complaining about the cost is heartless.
10
@Torrin Maag
‘The poor are paying for your privilege with their lives.’
Utter nonsense.
People make hundreds of decisions throughout their lives that impact their social and economic wellbeing.
My alleged ‘privilege’ is the result of appropriate decisions being made at the right time.
Socialists enable and encourage dysfunction and expect the rest of us to pick up the slack. Or else.
@Torrin Maag I earned my "privilege" through hard work and responsibility. It wasn't handed to me and I am not willing to hand what I earned to someone else outside my wife and kids.
1
@Randy L. I also earned mine through hard work and responsibility, but I had parents who provided that work ethic and opportunity. I recognize other people aren't as lucky, so I'm honored to help others.
Using your own logic why are you giving your wife and kids anything? Handouts will make them spoiled and entitled. Surely you can let them get their own act together and earn it themselves.
This piece shows the shocking dissociation of some young people from the real world. Many Sanders supporters are students who want zero tuition; others are graduates who want student debt forgiven. Are they "working class?" These writers are of a generation devoid of understanding of history. "Working-class struggle" and "socialism" are just more Scrabble words. As Humpty Dumpty said to Alice: "When I use a word... it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
Are the African Americans who voted for Biden in S. Carolina the "establishment?" I am older than Sanders. For decades I’ve been behind the same basic policies he propounds. But he is the wrong messenger. In a time of extreme divisiveness, he wants to create more division. In a time when we need to rebuild our basic government at home and our credibility abroad, he wants to crash the economy. Politicians make false promises, but Bernie's are so far from reality that he becomes an agent of disappointment and cynicism--and an object of derision across Dixie.
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@Des Johnson
The only people who believe that the "establishment" Bernie talks about comprises actual voters are people who take MSM talking heads at face value. It's unbelievable. If you actually pay attention to what he's been saying his entire life, he's talking about corporations. He's talking about lobbyists. He's talking about billionaires holding politicians in thrall via campaign contributions. No intellectually honest assessment of anything he's ever said about the "establishment" can conclude that he's talking about voters. The very fact that you've been duped into believing this lie is an illustrative example of the establishment being against him!
1
@steve: Which Establishment has duped me? The Irish? The British? The Swedish? The French? I've spent over half my long life on the other side of the pond. For me, Bernie's problem is that he deludes people, mostly young and inexperienced, into thinking "America" is just like the box they live in. And when I wrote "establishment" in my original post, I referred to the article not to Sanders. The "Democratic establishment?" For shame!
1
Make America Canada For the First Time (Except for the Cold).
Not the most felicitous turn of phrase, but sums up Bernie's much-needed platform.
4
@David
With climate change, you'll soon want our cooler weather too.
2
Sanders' base are children. They type of children that fit into a perfect little stereotype, and they seem to love it. Children that were born into this world believing nothing ever came before them. That their arrival marked the beginning of time. Children with not a single drop of life experience. Children incapable of viewing anything through a lens other than what will satisfy their own childish needs.
That's how I view a Sanders supporter, because that's the message and the image they so forcefully put out there.
Sanders voters, grow up already, ok. Be an adult, think of things like an adult would, and let's tackle the problems we face as adults together.
28
@M.A.A
I'm a retired career teacher, in a low wage state, who just turned 70.
I support Bernie.
7
@M.A.A You must think that all Canadians and Germans are "children" since those countries all basically have the pie in the sky policies that Bernie is supporting.
4
@M.A.A Essentially. No one has ever struggled before them, their struggles are worse than anyone else's, and they deserve to never have to struggle no matter their personal decisions.
Economic good news masks the effect of growing income inequality dating back to the early 1970s, as many households are overburdened by excessive costs of housing, child care, medical care, and student debt. Bernie's message is no more radical than a call to a return to the income-inequality of 1973.
6
An epic tragedy is about to unfold in Sanders-land. One hopes Sanders moderates his message, calls for party unity, and behaves as a rational actor throughout the process.
20
@Nick unlikely though. Based on his actions in 2016 he will drive the party apart long after it’s clear he’s lost. Long after any good he could have done has already been outweighed by the harm he is causing.
6
@MP He did 39 rallies for Hillary beat only by her family. More of his voters voted for Hillary, than Hillary voters voted for Obama. You are misinformed.
1
Let's not get caught up in the primary contests and forget about the ultimate price which is winning November 2020 general election. There's something really wrong when a former Vice President finished fourth in the first Contest in Iowa and fifth in the second contest in New Hampshire despite big endorsements including John Kerry; while a Mayor of a small village in Indiana tied as first in Iowa and finished as second in New Hampshire. The Earlier We Address The Elephant In The Room, The Better It Helps In November General Election. Historically, no candidate that Finished Below Third in Iowa and New Hampshire has ever been elected President of United States. Based on my observations here in Pennsylvania in 2016, I predicted in that Summer 2016 that Trump would become the President whenever Bernie drops out, and that's what exactly happened. That's because a lot of people here in Pennsylvania are Independents who really distrust any Republican or Democratic Establishment Candidates. They mostly said in 2016 that Bernie was their first choice and Trump the second choice because they're both Independents. I can tell you to brace up for the night of November 2020 general election if Biden is the Nominee.
21
@Ukosi You must live in the Pennsyltucky or Alabama portion of PA where the fools fly Confederate flags and embrace racism.
I grew up in Pennsylvania coal country when people were still sane and voted Democratic because the Democrats were the only ones who ever cared about coal miners and factory workers and supported the unions that made life better for the people engaged in those kind of jobs. Those blue collar workers would have laughed an Independent out of the room.
Democrats are always clamoring to get big money out of politics, now they have a clear choice. Biden is candidate of big money donors, while Senator Bernie Sanders is the candidate who will not accept that sort of funding. The fact that both of California's Senators have backed Biden just shows how out of touch the Democratic establishment has become. Biden is a compromised and weak candidate, Trump would beat him like a drum.
26
By tomorrow morning Bernie will have exhausted his campaign to become the nominee.
By losing MI and other states that determine another big chunk of delegates, having failed to bring in the hoards of young people and Latinos he says support him, by seeing the black, female, suburban moms, and working class desert him for Biden, it will finally sink in.
Biden is going to be the nominee.
The Bernie Bros will not go quietly into the night. That is not our problem. We are not here to make them happy.
But the rest of us will finally get rid of Trump and restore our country to glory.
Bernie was just a really bad dream that we finally awoke from.
18
@Simon Sez Biden will lose to Trump.
Sanders will draw former Trump supporters, for better or worse, but Biden will lose.
3
@Simon Sez America was not "glorious" four years ago. The giant homeless camps, the people losing their life savings because of a cancer diagnosis, the post-apocalyptic looking rust belt towns, none of these have anything to do with Trump. People who want politics to be boring and normal again are the ones who are delusional and out of touch, not the ones who see the need for systemic change.
4
@Simon Sez
Millions of people silenced. Proud?
It is mind blowing that Bernie's crew cannot see that we are living through the age of Trump in large part because of Bernie. Bernie's bros were the single loudest amplifier of Russian propaganda in 2016 and the same is proving true in 2020. Bernie's failure to truly support Hillary and implore his followers to vote in numbers for the democratic candidate who soundly defeated him in the primary resulted in a fractured party that lead to Trumps victory. Progress is supposed to be measured by forward motion not political purity. This movement is the antithesis of progressive.
28
@jg True, the Sanders' crowd did not unite behind HRC, but the DNC did little to acknowledge what we wanted. I held my nose and voted for HRC as the better choice, but better is a relative term here.
5
Why does the media sort of try to put Sen. Sanders' supporters in a class, here by calling them largely working class? I, and several of my friends, support Sen. Sanders . . . and consider ourselves part of the "professional" class. I would say that essentially we recognize that those with smaller incomes are going to continue to fare worse and worse if current policies continue.
52
@Merlin Pfannkuch Agree! Both my husband and I are professionals (MD, BE) and we agree with much of Sanders' platform.
3
@Merlin Pfannkuch because, in my opinion, based on what I see and read here in The NY Times, especially, the media is supporting the “machine” that will get Biden to be the nominee (and subsequently, the instrument Trump will use to mop the floor). Seriously, the Times even makeS sure to only post unflattering photos of Sen. Sanders in every one of the pieces in which he’s featured. The piece about his visit to the Soviet Union, which the Times published last week, was so misleading it can make your head spin. Go the The New Yorker and read Masha Gessen’s article “The Innocuous Story of Bernie Sanders’s Trip to Russia” published 3/6/20 and you’ll see what I mean.
2
Once Joe Biden loses in Nov, maybe just maybe we can let the fable of moderates being electable die and actually have a working class movement based on substance and not just beating the other guy. The problem is the democrats have almost exclusively courted suburban middle and upper income voters who do not share the same struggles as young people and the poor. The republicans have finally learned that running working class centric campaigns and railing against the establishment works after losing two elections in a row with corporate candidates 2008 & 2012. The Republicans will continue to win statewide and nationwide in poor and rural states just look at people like Senator Josh Hawley who beat a Dem in a midterm year while his state passed a minimum wage increase. He won by having a class centric message but conservative social beliefs. This is what Dems should be afraid of and if they keep towing a corporate line they and the working class will pay for it.
82
@Commenter I live in Missouri and have a different perspective on Josh Hawley's election. He won on guns and abortion, a bizarre combination. But Claire McCaskill reflects the first part of your comment perfectly. She tried to out-Republican a Republican.
4
@Commenter
Josh Hawley won in 2018 over Claire McCaskill because he was a Republican running in a Republican state that voted 56% to 38% in 2016 for Trump over Clinton.
As Missouri Attorney General in February 2018, Hawley joined 20 other Republican-led states in a lawsuit challenging the Affordable Care Act; that lawsuit could eliminate insurance protections for people with pre-existing conditions...a lawsuit would hurt all non-millionaires.
Certain Trump cult states where FOX News and hate radio dominate are largely unreachable by reality, facts and moderation.
7
@Commenter
If Trump wins in November there may never be another election. Trump governs as if he is king, and he would take re-election as confirming that he is now King. Everything he says makes that obvious.
Democrats better figure out that Independents (who don't vote in Democratic Primaries but will vote in the general) want an independent, not a corporate establishment Democrat.
In the last election, all of the cenrist candidates lost to a bomb thrower. Bernie is not a bomb thrower. Bernie wants to get corporate money out of elections so we can build again.
Why is that so hard to figure out that Independents want an independent?
Do you want those that voted for Bernie than Trump to vote for Trump again, or Bernie.
Trump has a negative message. Biden has a muddled message, Bernie has a positive message of making most people's lives better by promising that in elections, to build pressure on Congress to make it happen in reality.
10
Many writers keep dismissing the ideas found in Sanders' campaign as "people wanting free stuff".
This is not the way to think about it. Instead, think about it as a refutation of trickle down economics (Reaganomics). We know that doesn't work. And who has paid for the outrageous wealth now hoarded by the greedy in this country? The middle and working classes have paid for that. So I grow very weary indeed of folks saying we "want free stuff".
By ensuring that the least of us have a chance at a living wage, everyone will benefit. The economy does so much better when those who need it have money to spend. No one is suggesting that we put an end to capitalism: we just want to see the pie more equitably shared by those who've *earned it*.
I'm no young person anymore. I'm not badly off, either. But I recognize the obvious truth that helping my neighbor is helping myself. In the end it boils down to what kind of country we want to live in. Do you want to live in a country where more than half the population is riddled with anxiety about health and education costs? I don't. I would like a country where we take care of each other and where the least of us have more than a fighting chance to live reasonable lives without so much anxiety.
I don't think that's radical.
190
@Flotsam
People do expect free things from the government. They are the wealthy people who get free things from the government all the time and make sure that the politicians they support keep it that way.
As the saying goes, the class war is over; the wealthy won.
11
@Flotsam : when we say "free stuff"…..we do not mean a higher minimum wage.
We are talking about "free" health care (when it can't be free -- it involves very high taxes) and "free" day care and "free" maternity leaves and "free college" and the wiping away of all college loan debts for millions of people.
Those are obvious ploys to get certain groups to vote for Sanders, but most have zero chance of happening.
Objectively, the USA has been rigged relentlessly rightward for 40 years by the Republican Reverse Reverse Robin caucus and Democrats too timid and/or corrupted by campaign cash to rebut GOP feudalism.
There are many examples that illustrate this successful GOP hijacking: the lack of infrastructure, the 0.1% Welfare Queen income tax code, the widespread voter suppression, the corporate-state TV and Hate Radio network that propagandizes fear, loathing and mindless flag-waving.
But the best example is America's shameful and ineffective healthcare system that delivers middling results, leaves tens of millions uncovered and additional tens of millions underserved because of its extortion-level pricing model.
No one would ever design such a system except a Robber Baron cartel fixated on profit and Greed Over People.
Say what you will about Bernie Sanders, but he is not corrupted nor is he afraid to take on the right-wing, Randian corruption that has produced the greatest medical rip-off system in the world that kills people through pricing.
America is the only rich country where healthcare is a luxury consumer good instead of the human right that Bernie says it is.
Joe Biden will not win in November unless he recognizes the economic pain and legitimate outrage of Bernie Sanders supporters and Feels The Bern.
America should be thankful that such an honest and passionate public servant like Bernie Sanders is out there fighting hard for victims of a right-wing economic system.
240
@Socrates
"America should be thankful that such an honest and passionate public servant like Bernie Sanders is out there fighting hard for victims of a right-wing economic system."
Mate, you lost me here. So Bernie's an honest and passionate public servant? If he was honest, he would have run in the past 2 general elections as a Socialist because that is what he is in Vermont, not as a Democrat.
He is leeching off the Democratic Party apparatus as he "caucuses" with Dems. He's never authored or sponsored a meaningful piece of legislation in his life. And worst of all he will have zero chance of passing any of his lofty bills if he wins. Bernie's is flat out lying to a legion of desperate voters by promising them free health care, free college tuition, free lunch, etc.
I don't feel the Bern at all as I clearly know a snake oil salesman when I see him.
40
@Socrates
I wish the Sanders message had more grounding in reality. His numbers, as far as I can tell, are based on a lot of moving societal and governmental parts that must align perfectly in order for his promises to begin to take on a fiscal reality.
19
@Jackson T Firefly
How much debt are students servicing? That extraction of wealth to the banks is a tax. That tax doesn’t fund education or infrastructure.
Tax us. Stop going through the banks. This generation will pay more in debt than the cost to just fund it.
10
If your making less than 15 an hour with no healthcare and want help with that, Bernie is your candidate. These should be the same voters who supporters Trump. If your paying attention to enviromental issues, the climate, clean water and air, protection of our public lands, Bernie is your candidate. The rest of the people, Democrates and Republicans are in the middle and enjoy the status quo, with or without Trump.
50
@Mike If you want Trump to be reelected, Bernie is your candidate.
7
Except Bernie can't pass anything in a GOP Senate and you know that. You're just tossing the same argument out there. Bernie is finished. Bye.
1
Really? I would describe Obama as being much closer to Biden than Sanders, yet he addressed and made considerable progress on most of these issues, even with strong Republican obstruction. Sanders is adept at defining, even co-opting real problems, and pandering to those most affected by them by promising impossible-to-implement “solutions.”
3
As a American citizen, in the one of the wealthiest countries in the world, wouldn’t you expect your country to provide the basic needs to allow to thrive and prosper? I get the whole question of “well how are we going to pay for that?” But I think the main message of the campaign is that: the middle class is disappearing and the wealthiest Americans keep getting richer. Not only are they getting richer, but they are avoiding paying taxes (which is another issue in itself). Even if Biden were to win, which he has a decent chance, his goal would keep the status quo for the wealthy democratic donors. It will be interesting in the next 10 years when jobs become automated and more people are out of work and poor. I guess our solution is to blame it on the individual, at least thats the American view of it.
61
@Hunter Anderson
The Republicans always talk about taking us back to the "good old days" but Biden may be the first Democratic candidate I can recall who says the best he can offer is to take us backward to the way things were under Obama rather than trying to advance things.
1
Just a perspective from > 6 weeks in lockdown in Wuhan with plenty of time to discuss socialism with friends. No one in China thinks Bernie’s proposals make any sense whatsoever. Even my friends that are Party stalwarts and avowed Marxist-Leninist-Socialists.
Folks looking to get bailed out by a political party in 2020 are in for a very long wait.
17
@Kurt
Sounds super believable. Incidentally, I was just in a hipster coffee shop and a bunch of nurses and esteemed medical doctors were whispering to each other about how Trump's response to coronavirus has been perfect and what a medical genius he is.
Bernie is the candidate I would rather have but I don’t know if an anti-fracking candidate can win the Midwest. Moderate is a dirty word for many legitimate reasons but another four years of Trump would be disastrous.
7
For some reason you’re only working class if you’re white, clearly a lot of working class people cast their vote for Biden if the other low income groups where counted as well.
21
@Sanjay
The media mantra was Biden was the only one who could beat Trump. The over 45 crowd believed them. The exit polls show the split.
The media did this. I have never heard them say that Bernie could beat Trump regularly. They just attack.
3
@Sanjay Bernie does well with every minority demo except older black voters. Why they are still loyal to a party that just talks sweet nothings since the 80s and lead to mass incarceration that has more of us in jail than there were slaves in the 1850s is beyond me.
2
@Sanjay Are we reading the same article?
"Originally from El Salvador, Ruth Trujillo-Acosta, 59, and her husband, Gustavo Acosta, 61, are just trying to make things work."
"Working class means poor white people means bigots" is a go-to that's easy, lazy, and wrong.
1
Contrary to popular belief, parties do die. The Federalists did. The Whigs did. And the Democrats have every confidence they can do it, too. And they should. A more sleazy, cynical betrayal of a mass voting body has perhaps not been seen since the Reichstag Fire.
When the nation demanded a party dedicated to the health, prosperity and welfare of a yearning citizenry, what it got was vile betrayal and cowardly abandonment by Democrats, who sold every iota of concern for Americans for the money of a grasping, visionless, suicidal capitalist oligarchy.
The fact of Bernie brings the reality of the Democratic Party today into plain view and exposes, as an open casket does, the grisly horror within it.
106
@Michael Sorensen "the nation demanded" is a claim that requires some data.
We all tend to confuse ourselves with "the nation," and I fear you are doing so here.
2
@Michael Sorensen Wow. That was some beautiful language that described nothing close to reality. Democrats allow incremental, positive change. Bernie cannot win. If you don’t win, you accomplish no change.
Some > none.
4
@Michael Sorensen While I definitely understand where you are coming from, don't forget that there are a huge number of Democrats who believe in the messages of FDR, Warren, and Sanders. And while I'm pleased to see so many disaffected Republicans come over to the "moderate" wing of the Democratic party, those of us who have little love for their reverse-robin-hood economic message will keep fighting for the heart of the party. This monster ain't dead yet - we're just (as always) struggling with the battle of ideas and ideals that define what the party represents. That's the messy, inefficient, slow, and ugly process called Democracy. And while it IS messy and inefficient, it's a fair bit better than the alternatives.
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Bernie needs to focus on what really matters. 1. Defeat Trump. 2. Our environment. 3. Healthcare. 4. Raise the minimum wage. If we get those things done then we can start looking at other things. If we don't win the Senate along with winning the White House this November we won't be able to protect health care or raise the minimum wage. Sorry, you can be in love with Bernie Sanders as much as you want but reality is reality.
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People are always drawn to the promise of "free." The problem arises when "free" means that the cost will be borne by others. What happens when others are no longer able to afford that cost, due to any number of reasons? That's the conundrum.
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@dc This argument would have more teeth if every other developed country on the planet didn't have a better safety net than the USA.
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@dc Corporate tax cuts and handouts to the wealthy are "free." What happens when the working class is no longer able to carry the load?
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@dc We are already paying for health care and could easily save enough money so that universal health care would pay for itself. We continue to squander trillions on funding the war machine and funding unwinnable wars. Our infrastructure is crumbling, this is not a policy for prosperity. Our college graduates are saddled with crippling debt that hobbles our economy. Yet we continue to subsidize the profits of corporations and billionaire executives. Biden is just another Obama or Hillary, more of the same, increasing inequality, waffling on solutions to global warming, and criminal military adventures.
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I find it very difficult to believe a sensible human being could vote for Mr. Sanders because they surely know there is insufficient funds to pay for even a portion of his programs. And for those pursuing the "American Dream", my advice is to work as hard as possible, live below your means and perhaps (nothing is guaranteed) you will achieve it after 40+ years of work.
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@Mark The American Dream for us is to simply not be ruined by the cost of healthcare and to have a habitable planet in 50 years.
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@Mark
You do know that M4A is a cheaper system then the one in place right now?
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@Mark - Paying for these programs is a matter of priorities and asset allocation. Military spending is out of control and unnecessary. Better healthcare and education, lower drug prices, fair taxation and fewer nuclear subs, fewer missiles, fewer military interventions. That is how you pay for improvements to life quality. I am a sensible human being and he is the only honest and sensible candidate not in the pocket of the slime-ball military industrial complex.
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Let's be real. Bernie Sanders is FDR 2.0, the guy who like FDR wanted an economic Bill of Rights, and like Harry Truman, who wanted universal health care. For decades -- even when Americans were much better off financialy then they are today -- the "Democratic wing of the Democratic Party" (as Howard Dean liked to say) has been fighting to restore the soul of the Democratic Party, lost to candidates of the "Republican light" in a system corrupted by big money.
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@P Read : Bernie Sander’s is no FDR. The socialists attacked FDR as a ‘sellout’ with the same rhetoric as they attack the Democratic Party today.
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@P Read . Sanders needs to run using this framework. That's been a mistake on his part, which I do not understand because he's so smart in other ways. He always talks about Denmark or Sweden, but we have a progressive history in this country too. I think talking about FDR and Harry Truman would be a much better angle.
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@P Read
Bernie Sanders is no Franklin Roosevelt
Unless, maybe, you’re kidding, right?
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Confusing at best. Why would I vote for someone who hates my party? Screaming we are "establishment" and "political"..how does this help bring us together?
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@gc Are you a billionaire or high dollar donor? If not, you are not the establishment.
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@mempko : Who about if I’m one of the 4 million more folks who voted for Hillary Clinton than for Bernie Sanders. Or is using the pejorative ‘establishment’ an all purpose cop out for Bernie whenever he loses.
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@gc Can we think beyond party to ideas? I don't care whether Sanders is a registered member of the Mickey Mouse Club, and other Democrats shouldn't either. All the us vs. them polarization helps no one.
If we could resurrect an LBJ or Hubert Humphrey and asked them which one was a Democrat, Biden or Bernie, they would recognize the latter in a second.
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who come to imagine a country with universal health care, no student debt and a $15 minimum wage.
Aye, and all paid for by some one else. Many of these people who say they are struggling are in the same boat I was at that age. I worked, saved my money and got out of it.
What I do not see people doing now is foregoing such things as new cars, expensive cell phones and other trappings of "wealth".
We all need to remember that utopia is always expensive.
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@Bill These public services will boost the economy for everyone (including those who don’t need them, who will enjoy the growth of the economy on a more sustainable basis rather than monetary stimulus - rising stock market, rising 401k’s) and give equal opportunities to people from different backgrounds to live the American Dream. It will also save American money on a net basis (are you bot spending anything on healthcare right now? You will keep paying your premium maybe even less). The US has become a tough place for anyone born into a working class family (or even middle class) these days. College and healthcare costs have skyrocketed in the past couple of decades. People are struggling to get out of the debt-infused growth that government has allowed to take place. Finally, this is not a utopia - when you are the richest country in the world you must have a right to these things. A lot of countries that have limited resources than the US already guarantee these things to their citizens. Please don’t tell people not to ask for better. They are worth listening to. Republican or Democrat, there is a huge crowd out there that understand these issues.
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@EHS
EHS, saying that because we inhabit the richest country in the world that we should all have a right to those things about which we talk is preposterous.
If, indeed, we are the richest country in the world, we did not get to this point by asking someone else to pay for our things. We got this way by working. Oh, and by the way, monetary stimuli, e.g. a rising stock market and low unemployment are good indicators of a rich country.
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@Bill You are not around enough young people it seems. Maybe your view is trapped by your own "wealth"? Because young people don't drive expensive cars and use expensive phones.
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Statistics from the primary season so far do not support the Sanders myth that the "working class" is flocking to him for support, quite the contrary. His aggrieved base of low income "working people" seems to consist mostly of younger voters with a college degree who are in a snit because they cannot find a job to pay them what they think they are worth.
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@jef we are a country of low-information voters, where the majority rarely picks up a newspaper or a book & where many voters form their political views according to what their cable news pundits tell them to do. Just compare the number of subscribers to the NYT to the number of people who tune in to FOX News & you've got your answer.
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This is literally proven wrong in the article you are commenting on. It says that Bernie won among voters without a college degree but lost college-degree voters to Biden by double digits.
This is all projection and is the exact myth this article is trying to dispel. Bernie’s base is the working class - the same working class that will sit out in November because they know a corporate candidate like Biden will never fight for them.
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@jef You can’t just ignore all the people who voted for him in the primaries until now or make generalized conclusions with no real fact to back them up. What you don’t see is that people are disgusted by the money-politics of both Republicans and Democrats in DC, and they are sticking up with the most consistent, human-focused candidate that ever showed up in the West in a long time.
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