Reading these reports, I am slowly wrapping my mind around the idea that I need to stock up on food, and prepare for.... what? Lockdown? Plague? Recession? End times?
It is like watching a slow motion car crash coming towards you.
Your focus on the national stereotype “furbizia” at this time is ill-timed and offensive . Italy is de facto sacrificing its economy ( which was already under stress) and the economic welfare of its citizens for years to come, to stop the spread of this virus in Italy and in Europe. I am not sure other Western democracies will show the same guts and determination. And all in all the large majority of the Italian citizens is respecting the draconian measures that have been imposed . The real “furbi” to me are Trump and his acolytes who, for popularity and electoral considerations, are under representing the true scope of the epidemic in the US. Because , hey , in the end it is a bunch of old people, or those with a precondition, or the poor who will die.
28
Here we go again Jason with "Furbizia italiana". How about going after the French or Germans? Their Govts until a couple of weeks ago did not even admit they had a problem (now they do). In Munich bars were packed yesterday and yet the country is nearing 1000 cases. When Italy reached that number the NYT was already advising no travel to Italy; not a word against travel to Germany or, God forbid, France.
But I leave this game of blame to right wing nationalists and fascists of various type that possibly, and unfortunately, from Italy will soon flood social media. It will be interesting to see what happens in US when lockdowns will inevitably be implemented and people want to exercise their “right to freedom.”
But what is truly alarming is the stereotype the NYT continues to reinforce, extending to the choice of pictures. Instead of studying Italy as the laboratory of what will soon happen in other parts of the Western world, the articles always hint that in "the boot" things are different -- and for the worse. Either tragic or picturesque. The efforts Italy has made are viewed much differently by other European papers. Even the Frankfurter Allgemeine or Le Figaro (notoriously conservative) observes thing differently. Please, Jason, you are reporting from one of if not the most complicated country in the world, it requires a steady hand, objectivity and some humility.
21
I applaud my native country Italy, where the prime minister is a man of integrity who looks after people and not his ego.
On the other hand, in the US we have a man, who is hardly a man at all, incapable of truth, heedless of science, and hostage to the demands of his insatiable ego
28
Asking if Italians are able to follow the rules, is asking if a stereotype is true. It is like asking if women are fit to be doctors, or if LGBTQ can be teachers or parents, and the like. There is no collective answer to these questions, there are only individual answers. Some Italians are clever, just like some women are not fit to be doctors.
For such a woke newspaper this is quite a slip. Unfortunately, this is not an isolated case. I would like to see a more respectful coverage of non-Anglo-Saxon countries on the NYT. I do not appreciate this picturesque portrayal of far-away countries and cultures. If the article was about Californians, Texans or Canadians can you imagine such crass generalizations?
29
What is China but a third rate country passing itself off as a capitalist supreme powerhouse? It is still an authoritarian state steeped in antiquity. Yet the modern civilization is beholden to its authoritative and bizarre and unhealthy practices. Liberate ourselves. Go back to pre-globalization where we had trust and faith in our standards of living. What has improved but nothing. Until China progresses to western standards we are doomed. I am much dismayed for Italy. I pray you overcome swiftly and surely.
2
The whole world has to make the sacrifice and please don't play games with our lives....
5
I am an Italian and American citizen. I worked in the US as a professor at one of the premiere Universities (WashU) as a neurologist and chief of service for 30 years. Now I serve as the Chair of Neurology in Padova where the University Hospital is taking the lead in the response to Covid-19. I am disappointed by the optics the NYT is presenting about the Italian situation. Rather than focusing on the ‘flaws’ of the Italian people I would suggest that you focus on the response of the Italian government and medical system that I am witnessing and participating to every day. There are too many stories of efficiency and selfless dedication to share, but I will share one. Last Friday one of my doctors tested positive. Within 4 hours my entire staff was tested by three nurses who came on site. Within 12 hours we had results back. One nurse and one medical student was positive. Testing included tracing all ‘close contacts’. The doctor was placed in isolation in Padova and the family in Piedmont. Nurses from the health system checked once a day to see if there were any change in clinical status. These are the stories that you should share!
As for being prepared I would refer you to this website where you can check the number of patients tested per million per country as of March 1st. The data from this public website for the US were taken down by the CDC on March 2nd (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/covid-19-testing/).
50
@Maurizio Corbetta, I respect the statistics you bring to the discussion (and recommended your post), but they are comparing countries at different points in their response to the epidemics. While the response of which you are a witness is to be commended, you are shooting the messenger. This evening the head of the Protezione Civile, during the press conference, specifically commented on the fact that they had to close all ski resorts, because some sectors of the population was not understanding the meaning of shutdown of schools, and instead sending kids to ski.
6
Thank you for your reply. The first positive case in Italy was on Jan 30 at the Spallanzani institute in Rome. The first case in the US was on Jan 12 https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-in-us.html).
As for public discipline, I am sure we all remember what happened with Katrina in New Orleans. Kind regards.
13
We Germans are the on other side of the extreme, anti-furbizia if you will. What is often the theme of jokes about us and rightfully so, will maybe hopefully help us to avoid the worst.
6
@Michael
Yes, those of us old enough to have lived through the SS occupation of Rome in 1943-44 are well acquainted with the German adherence to discipline. And this is not a joke.
13
I suggest to Mr. Horowitz and Ms. Bubola to read this article "It Took Me 3 E.R. Visits to Get a Coronavirus Test in New York".
Enough said.
15
I am amused by the lack of self-awareness,not to mention sense of ridicule, that this American article in the pages of the major American newspaper displays by mocking an assumed inability of the Italians to discipline themselves, at a moment when:
the American president and his government spread false information;
the American health system (such as it is) is unable to come up with the basic means to check the size of the epidemic and provide standard equipment;
sick citizens go to work because there is no such thing as paid sick leave;
sick people do see doctors because they have no insurance.
This may be the place to point out that those irresponsible Italians do have mandatory paid sick leave, not to mention a highly functioning public health system.
And, speaking of people who cannot follow directions, I note that Donald Trump in Florida is cheerfully mixing with the crowd, shaking hands with anyone who lets him, against the advice of his scientists. Could it be that his European pedigree includes some Italians, besides the draft-dodging German grandfather and his Scottish-girl mother?
29
I am a dual citizen, Italian and American. I deeply love both countries and in these difficult days I’m offended and sickened by this constant bashing, this slandering of Italy by the New York Times. You are a great newspaper, why getting so low and xenophobic. I would expect these racist stereotypes (Italians are all unreliable, cunning and unruly!) from the National Enquirer, not the NYT! I don’t know how much time Mr. Horowitz and Miss Bubola are spending or spent in Italy. Italy is a country facing a major Health Crisis with dignity, solidarity and pride. We also have a high number of infected people because we actually do the testing there. We have a National HealthCare system that might not be perfect but we take care of our own. Unlike the US where the healthcare system is so unfair that probably many people infected here are not testing or receiving medical care because uninsured or afraid they might get a giant bill in the mail. A bill that they cannot afford. Mr. Horowitz and Miss Bubola, I have a suggestion for you. If you’re in Italy these days, talk about the police officers, the doctors, the nurses, the personnel on our trains, the common citizens that despite the virus show up at work every day and do their job. Their duty. Without complaining or feeling like heroes. I am proud of Italy. Always was, always will be. Cut it out with the stereotypes and do your job. Do some actual reporting or send your resume to a tabloid. That’s where your articles belong.
33
@Paolo Ferraris
Great Paolo, thank yo you said it very well. Mr. Horowitz and Ms Bubola chose to focus only on some aspect of the current situation, ignoring the great deal of efforts that doctors, nurses, in a public health system that guarantees to any citizen to be properly cured and for free, are making. And also young people offering to help elderly with food shopping so that they do not have to leave their home.
To the NYT, changing the title does not make this article less offensive.
14
I was born and raised between Tuscany and Texas, between the renaissance walled city of Lucca and pedestrianless neighborhoods of North East Dallas.I like to think I understand a little of both worlds.The concept of "furbizia" is somewhat imbedded in the Italian culture as it is, I believe, at any other latitude where people live in a constant state of emergency as in Italy. Consider there have been something like 62 governments in the past 70 years; probably most South American and African governments have been more stable. Therefore the general population has an endemic lack of trust in national politics as well as for the eccessive number of baroque laws that try to manage this complex country. Furbizia is nothing more that "street smarts" which can be accounted for, pretty much, by anybody who lives day to day like most characters from a Mark Twain novel. Italians just use it structurally from politics to business to religion. So I don't agree with those who say that Italians cant follow the rules, they just decide which rules to follow because it's not always clear which are in place. But on one thing Trump is right, probably the only one; opposition parties have tried to benefit from the Cov19 confusion to overturn the current Government, in particular the Bannon influenced Lega of Matteo Salvini who is undermining everything thats being done during this already poorly managed crisis. But at least there is free health care and no guns on the streets. Food for thought.
8
There is nothing about “furbizia” that is unique to Italians. What about Germany declaring zero deaths, or the US showing only 656 infected at the moment? Rather than focusing on the false uniqueness of a behavior that is common through cultures, nations, and time, shouldn’t we try to learn something from what is going on now in Italy and use it to have a better approach in the US when the time comes to use similar Draconian measures? What about the fact that 3 days ago at JFK they wouldn’t check your temperature or anything if you landed from Milan? Would you define that a smart approach?
21
@Mark
At present the World "could be" on the verge of a Pandemic, which know one wants to see happen. It would now make sense to find out how this infection has now become of Global concern. Now is the time that Global Society should pull together to stop this infection in its tracks, for it respects no borders. The harsh movement restrictions, which are now in place in Italy, is a very sensible path to follow, and I do not understand how can people say that this is undemocratic? I would say " these" people are "undemocratic" and have no place in a democratic society. At present, "the infection has not peaked", and it will be some time before this happens.
The best defence is Personal Hygiene, and that "Coughs and Sneezes Spread Diseases". " Catch Them in a Tissue, and Bin It".
Remember to stay healthy!!!
1
The press - everywhere - always makes everything seem more dramatic than it is. How many times has anyone here read a story about a situation and then arrived in that situation to wonder what all of the excitement was about?
My partner is Italian and as he is currently in central Italy with his very elderly parents, I have become more than a little bit anxious in recent days.
When we met many years ago, it quickly became apparent that his starting point was always to assume that everyone was out to get the better of him, whereas my starting point is always one of trust in my fellow citizens. I joke that I feel safer in Italy re. terrorism, not only because of their experience with it but because they are so incredibly suspicious. Italians are not any more foolish a people than any other national group. There are signs that more broadly they are starting to understand the seriousness of the situation and the need to change their behaviour. Not all will conform, but neither would that be the case in North America.
On Saturday Italy conducted more than 5,500 tests for the virus; on Sunday that number was well above 7,000. On Sunday, the government in the Canadian province I live in announced that of the four new imported cases of the virus one was in a person who had travelled to Colorado, another in a person who had recently travelled to Washington, D.C. The remaining two were imported from France and Germany, respectively. I just checked and Colorado and D.C. are reporting 8 cases and 1 case, respectively, and France and Germany each only about 1,000 in total. Either travelling Canadians have terrible luck or who are the real furbi (or, in the minimum, untested)?
13
I was wondering how furbizia would play out in New York. Not specifically for Italians. New York in general. I can't see any possible way New Yorkers are quarantining anything. This is the city where last call is 4:00 am. Bars are allowed to start serving again at 7:00 am except on Sundays. Smoking is generally permitted despite the ban. You expect 10,000 bars to stay closed indefinitely. Not happening. The term "86" literally came from a speakeasy in the West Village.
For the daywalkers, dogs present a similar problem. I don't believe NYPD can stop 600,000 dog owners from walking their dogs whenever they want. The dog walkers go out, the bodegas open, the coffee shops open. Everyone is out. Maybe you can shutdown a music festival or a museum or something. However, I'll laugh if any New York official can contain the spread. It's like trying to put out a grease fire with water. Sizzle-splat-crinkle-burn!
Italians’ “furbizia” – an art of being sly isn’t much different from Trump’s art of the con. Italians take pride in outwitting the authorities, as much as Trump dodging taxes and liabilities.
As the COVID-19 seems to be spiralling out of control in Italy, the country misses a leader like Mussolini, who presented himself as the only man capable of restoring order and exerting strong state control.
We, in Switzerland, are some 120 miles from Milan and the hotspots of the virus. There are 312 people infected and they are under quarantine. Two elderly have died in recent days.
Last week three in my region – some 100 miles south of Zurich – were tested positive. One is in hospital and the other two stay at home in self-imposed quarantine. Four other people were reported infected later the week and they all belong to the same circles.
Life is still normal here. But the government bans large gatherings with over 1.000 participants and urges people to avoid travelling in rush hour.
I keep myself fit by eating lots of fruits and veggies - going to the sauna and out in the fresh air - apart from reading and writing.
3
Google tracks should be deployed to trace the movements of known carriers and be overlayed on one’s own track to reveal intersections.
This could work through a new app.
If you did cross paths with a carrier , it would be your cue to self isolate and have a test delivered to you.
5
I just read in the comments that the tile of the article has been changed but it was already reported by italian press that the NYT journalists (Mr. Horowitz and Mrs. Bubola) had used a very common stereotype (partly well deserved, I admit it) to describe a very serious and extraordinary situation.
I ask the same journalists how would their react if someone was to refer to the american population as "violent" or "naturally inclined to carry weapons (and using them)" when covering a dramatic situation, like a mass shooting in any part of its territory. Stereotypes are funny and often true but there's always a time where using them is appropriate and when not. This is clearly one in which solidarity would have been more elegant and more appropriate Mr. Horowitz and Mrs. Bubola
16
We are raeally lucky in the US as Larry Kudlow said the virus was contained.
1
Thanks for this article, well written and well informed.
I am a Northern Italian, too. Like any other world citizens, we are quite sensitive when, in a moment of difficulty, some of our national traits, and of our common flaws, are exposed. But the article wasn’t at all offensive and just pointed out at existing realities.
I am proud to read NYT clearly affirming that “this is a democracy”. It might be more difficult to have people cooperate when you do not “enforce” but have to convince your fellow citizens. In the long run, however, we will learn that being free and disciplined at the same time is possible and smart.
I am also proud that my country is still able to keep a functioning public health system available to all. The high toll of deaths registered in the current circumstances also depends from one of the highest life expectancy values: we live “a long and healthy life” also thanks to existing public health.
Finally, let’s appreciate that with “social distancing” we are collectively and individually asked to do a kind of triple loop overnight. It’s a behavior which is so distant from our culture. It requires a big conscious effort and some time to digest the process. But we shall overcome.
A big virtual hug to all those who are living with us these extremely difficult times, including those who see us from outside and can offer us valid additional vantage points to cope with the situation.
23
If Italy is on strict lockdown, shouldn't smaller areas of outbreak with deaths (and not enough tests) in the United states be on lockdown too? If a death occurs in an area, math predicts...
(https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/05/health/coronavirus-deaths-rates.html)
...there are upwards of 500 carriers out in the community touching stuff, and maybe believing Trump's messaging that this is no big deal. Perhaps hotspots in the Northwest should take more serious measures like closing all public schools?
4
We can say that when far-left political parties have refused new election and have imposed a government because, as they declared, there was the risk of a victory of the right-wing parties, when moreover this government has spent lots of words to minimize the covid-19 danger, it is very difficult that people can trust what it says!
It is not a matter of "furbizia" of people; it is what this strange government has taught!! It has taught to be "furbo" just for your own interest!
1
@Marco the rigorous French adopted more serious measures...yesterday.
check here:
https://it.euronews.com/2020/03/09/francia-raduno-di-3500-persone-vestite-da-puffi-pufferemo-il-coronavirus
You are being very unpatriotic to be so obviously right wing. This Govt. exists because Salvini from a beach last August pulled the plug to his own Govt. not because some strange leftist plot. Italy first he said and Covid SAR C/ V2 said yes.
4
Italians can be partitioned in two main sets. Surely there are many, too many "furbi", namely those who evade taxes, who think themselves above and beyond the rules etc. These people are also the most visible ones, those who help italo-stereotype enduring. And then there is another set, possibly smaller than the former one, for sure much less visible, made of tenacious and indefatigable workers, of generous and helpful women and men. Otherwise how could be Italy, with all its problems, be the country it is? That said, let's hope the furbi understand this major crisis also concerns them, a lot. If they do, then the great people who now indefatigably work in the hospitals (Mr. Horowitz, why not an article on them?) to care for the more fragile among us will finally prevail.
10
I give the Italian government pretty good marks for attempting a serious and meaningful response to COVID 19
The US government and most others (not China/Korea) have taken tepid, trivial steps that will have very little impact.
The Italian move is, indeed, an experiment without any absolute guaranteed. But it COULD have a significant containment impact.
Italy will benefit, Europe will benefit, the Globe will get at least a little benefit and, lastly, science will benefit.
When this is over we will know more about mass containment strategies than we do today.
If this were La Scala, and if La Scala were actually open, I would be standing up in the orchestra seats shouting "Brava, Brava".
From my distant vantage point in Chevy Chase I rise to salute the Italian government with a glass of prosecco and say "In bocca al lupo" !.
30
@John B thank you!
1
@John B Finally. I wish you were reporting from Italy for the NYT I never seen so many nasty comments about an article about Italy in this paper and not without reason .
Friends in Germany France and UK wrote me and asked how Italian readers can stand such slanted and poor reporting. Obviously they do not, if you read the comments.
Some for sure took notice in the editorial office I even wonder if somebody questioned the ability of the two reporters to portray the real situations to the American public. In any case something must have happened since they change the title. Italy is democracy and the Constitution provides for freedom of the press and freedom speech, however it can not assure that whoever writes is competent
3
I love Italy - because they love life!! A hug, kisses are a big part of the culture. I wish them well as this situation passes - I am sure, like every other crisis that has hit them - it will make them stronger and even more loving..
16
Wouldn't it be smarter for those with underlying conditions to stay home and be supported since the virus has not killed anyone without an underlying condition?
6
I'm an Italian living in Torino, northern Italy.
I suggest that the NYT and the media in general, rather than focusing on cheap stereotypes to read social behavior, try and focus on the real reason moving our choices at this moment: fear for the unknown. Everyone I look at has it in their eyes, and understandably so.
Intensive care to treat the virus is limited, even in a country with universal healthcare like ours.
Our government made many mistakes (every government will), creating mass confusion.
But don't try and frame it all as "the italian way" to Coronavirus. Every democracy confronted with this crisis will do the same.
On a brighter note, my fiancee lives in Milan and her brother in Venice, two of the worst places to be in at this moment. Rather that going back to Puglia where they come from with the risk of spreading the virus, they decided, like most of us, to stay put and reduce the risk of contagion.
I can assure you it took some courage to do so. This is the Italy you should be talking about.
71
@Ludovico I am an italian living in Trento and sadly this article simply tells the truth. Fear is one thing, stupidity and nonchalance is another thing. This past week-end thousands and skieers from Lombardy and Veneto fled to my region to ski, despite the restrinctions already enforce. Do people go skiing on a sunny day out of fear? As I am writing thousands of lombards moved to their holiday homes in Tuscany, risking massive stress for the tuscan health system in the coming weeks. As an italian I’d love my people to grow up.
8
@Ludovico It was the Italian government itself that perpetuated the stereotype. The Times was just reporting what the release said. While I understand your objection, no place could be handling this worse than the US. So relax.
2
The original title of this piece included the ironic question "Can Italian follow the rules?" Given the current situation, this was unfortunate, and I am glad it's been changed. As an Italian, I do acknowledge that most Italians are not good with rules (don't get me started, because I could go on and on with regards to this problematic attitude!) However, I believe that, these days, the NYT should focus on the lack of response to the epidemic here in the US rather than talking about what happens overseas. Whereas in Italy swift action has been taken, with a healthcare system that is working full steam for all people affected, almost nothing is moving this side of the pond. Things will get worse very soon, and it will be a nightmare. I only hope that this situation will open the eyes of many Americans. Honestly, I don't think that the US is in the position of giving anybody a lesson re. healthcare (and I am saying this from the totally privileged position of someone fully covered by health insurance.)
42
The NYT should report on anything worth reporting. Why should they limit themselves to issues within the US? Why should they not report on, say, Italy? It seems as if you’ve got the concept of free press a little bit confused.
5
@Eugenio AMEN! You are so right. I am Italiana and I know all about the furbizia... but the Italian government is doing fine with regards to this health threat. While ours is just talking about how great our health system is, yes for those who have it and can afford it!, but doing very little otherwise.
I do not like Conte and his entourage or his politics, but in this case he is doing the right things.
The Italians will get the picture when the cruise ships stop showing up in Venice, the lines outside the Uffizi in Florence disappear, and the restaurants in Rome fall empty.
5
Why does the NYT ALWAYS fall into the negativity trap where Italy is concerned? I’m an American living in Italy since 1997. Let’s look at the facts:
In 2005 Italy banned smoking indoors (USA has bans in only 26 states). Plastic bags were banned in 2011, the first country in Europe to do so. Italy recycles 41 % of its municipal waste (USA 35%). The list goes on.
The point is that Italians, when asked to get in line, do! I have no doubt they will in this case too .
At least in Italy the government is blatantly honest and aggressive about the situation. Can we really say the same about the United States?
68
@HLB Of course not. However, most of the residents of Milan who I am in touch with (I live there part time) are in complete denial. Yes, this is a flu for the most part, but for the elderly and those with underlying conditions this is very serious since there is no analogous drug to Tamiflu or Relenza for Covid-19 for those at high risk for developing severe symptoms, and there is no vaccine to confer some immunity on the population. In the future this will either go away or just be another seasonal illness, but it is not nothing at the moment and it is cause for concern. Staying away from people and not fleeing northern Italy with the virus potentially would be getting in line. I grew up in Italy. I think your assessment of the country and the population is a little rosy in this regard.
3
It’s really not much different here in Kirkland. It’s hard to understand why (as someone over 60) I should stay home all day every day. I don’t know anyone who has the virus, and I’ve never heard anyone else say they know someone who does. Containing the virus is an abstraction and the panic we’re seeing seems so overblown. But I acknowledge that health experts know more than I do, so I’ll try.
4
@HLB amen.
2
It is not only Italy, I was recently in the South Pacfic and Australia and there were plenty of Chinese refugees whom had managed to get out of their country, despite travel restrictions. They are kind stuck though, if they have a Chinese passport.
Amazing how governments allow such bureaucratic pain for their peoples, year after year, so that they have to come up with complicated workarounds to get things done. It's not just Italy.
Then, when the government needs cooperation, it has to implore people to ignore it's abuses and lazy self-interest.
In my humble opinion, the world's wealthy need to pour their own money into public service in this pandemic. They've grown rich from systems that thwart peaceful, contented populations. Now they need us to quit breathing and 'getting around'.
Meanwhile, basics like hand sanitizer are unavailable. Weeks later.
7
In every war gaming scenario of a biological attack on the USA or NATO, containment fails and pandemics cripple government and commerce which is precisely the point of weaponizing biological agents. The reality is that governments and people are powerless to prevent contagion and lack the means the adapt fast enough or treat the sick efficiently. This is why early detection and containment is so critical since once a pathogen make the jump to humans or spreads, the genie cannot be put back into the bottle. Complex interdependent urbanized societies are at extreme risk from pandemics and so the collective security and prosperity of the world should cause nations to cooperate and communicate freely - but too often this is not the case until the disaster has already occurred. In this sense, a pandemic is like a world war where everyone loses.
11
@American Akita Team China has done a good job at containment. It sacrificed Wuhan and many doctors and nurses lost their lives to the virus while heroically helping people in all -day shifts. The people all over the country stayed at home when told to do so, and businesses shut down immediately. While all this was going on, in the two months China's efforts bought the US, nothing was done here. Now, with the virus here, we'll see how well the lack of govt agencies (gutted by Trump) and zero social safety net work out. Im guessing not great.
1
Meanwhile except for Alitalia, all airlines are saying "business as usual". All airports remain open. I know someone in Milan who just went to Berlin and flew back AFTER the lockdown. Of course the Italians can't follow this directive. The government doesn't appear to know what it even means. It's like a drug addict who goes into rehab only to be stunned when the tell him he has to stop drinking too. I own an apartment in Milan, where I grew up, and I am scheduled to travel from there to other European cities at the beginning of April. My aforementioned friend seemed shocked when I told him that I cannot come to Milan to take the flight. Not only is it in violation of the directive but they won't let me or my husband go back to work in Switzerland if we do. If you want people to follow the rules, MAKE THEM.
10
Exactly. If Malpensa, Linate, and Marco Polo (airports within the 'zona rossa' lockdown area, currently stretching from Asti to Venice, encompassing a quarter of the Peninsula, what is to stop an infected, contagious, or for that matter, infected but asymptomatic individual from flying into Tessera (Marco Polo airport in Venice), taking the Alilaguna or a private taxi, and arriving in a tightly contained area with a comparitively heavy population density, and infecting scores of Venetians, many of whom are elderly with underlying conditions like lung cancer and COPD? It's not a lockdown if furbi flee on trains and tourists continue to arrive in Venice from god knows where via Tessera. Ditto Lombardia via Malpensa and Linate. Vergogna!
1
I am an italian citizen living abroad. I was born in Sicily, where every single italian national trait goes to its extreme, but over the course of my life I've been living in, or visited, several different cities in the country. So I think I am reasonably qualified to answer this question: "can italians follow the rules". No, they cannot. Plain and simple. No way they can. It's like asking wolves to go on a veggie diet; it's ridiculous to even pose such a question. This "Furbizia" trait is so fundamental to our national identity, so deeply ingrained in our minds, that it could very well be considered one of the very few things (along with the obsession for good food, say) that actually make the country one, out of the 20-ish regions it actually consists of. If any further proof was needed, look at what happened when rumors were leaked by the press(!) that the government had in mind to contain the spread of this infection by introducing stricter lock-down measures in the northern regions. Several thousands people immediately fled just before such measures could be enforced, in order to reach their hometowns in the south, unknowingly(?) taking with them the infection to areas which were hitherto spared. I am afraid things just got a lot worse than they already were. These are really terrible times.
125
@Marco Italy's furbiza is one concern but honestly all latin Europe has the same weakness. Here in France "la magouille" is our furbiza and is also a national trait. And in Spain, "chanchullos" are a pillar of the society. And let's not even talk about Portugal.
Just like you, I am afraid that our problem with discipline and laws could become a health issue for Latin Europe.
Forza Italia. Courage.
22
@Marco. Sorry being a Sicilian does not help your view. In fact proves the difference from the South and the North of the country. History does matter.
In Vo, one the epicenters in Veneto almost 4000 thousand people voluntarily subjected them self for a second test promoted by the University of Padua. a friend who is a virologist is say that data collection is unique and very important various scientific institution from around the world are following closely.
Also most of those who went home South last night went for a self quarantine or were stopped, checked ans summoned upon arrival.
Don't you think that the really furbi are the Germans messing with numbers or the French that with 1300+ cases are still debating weather to create their red zone not hurt the economy.
Being obviously an angry expat does not allow you understand the damage that your generic comment can create. Be a little more "Dutch furbo" and if you can stay home even there.
21
I think this would just be a common trait of all people, though. A few hundred thousand also fled Wuhan between the lockdown was announced and enforced. It's bound to happen in other countries in Europe and the US as well if they decide to lockdown one of their cities.
9
Until now, this generation has never been asked, as a whole, to make a sacrifice for the common good. From the Boomers through Gen X to the Millenials. That goes for Italy and the rest of the western world. We don't really know, deep down, what "sacrifice" means when it comes to giving up certain daily pleasures and conveniences. We have to learn through experience right now. This is a big test that we must pass all together, because the consequences of failure, or of letting the "furbi" get away with breaking the rules, would be catastrophic.
174
I did not like this article, I have found it a lazy development of an old cliche'.
Italians of the North follow the rules, provided that they are logic and necessary, and according to italian newspapers, most italians are following the recent rules with heroic stoicism. Enough said.
28
@Guido exactly. Although there are still some people in the North who don't like the rules. But they are a minority.
1
Our son is in Sicily. He says they think a visiting German tourist started the whole thing in Milano. He developed a cough and visited an Italian doctor and didn't tell him he'd been overseas. We just got off the phone with him, he said they have pretty much suspended the Constitution in northern Italy, and troops are being used to enforce the law. He says some party girls last night were bragging on Facebook they'd gotten out of the "red zone" in Milano and made it back to Sicily. The police quickly arrived at their homes and they are now under quarantine. He says the local baker has a cough, but still came to work and cooked bread for the neighborhood. Italians are very sociable and not taking it seriously enough and this will end badly. Italy's daily death total will be announced at noon, eastern standard time today. He's worried that America is headed the same way, and we have the wrong people in the White House to handle this slow-motion train wreck.
60
Quite frankly, I am much more concerned about America, than Italy. Here the battle is tough, but the NHS and hospitals come and get us without asking for money. When this thing really gets to the US, it will be hard to really support all the sick, especially given the non insured people, and this will spread the virus everywhere quickly. So, I think Americans should take example from, us rather than blaming our culture. Yes, we love to embrae and kiss each other, we love to speak loudly and people think we argue when we're just exchanging ideas. But I can tell you we have taker hard decisions and will respect them, very simply. Some may not, but in my experience this happens everywhere, in every country.
Fortunately, our hospitals will cure all, and not only people with money.
48
@massimo
Respectfully, this is a case where you are likely wrong. The capacity for critical care is limited in most western countries by ICU beds and trained doctors. In Europe, the supply of ICU beds is ~10 per 100,000 population, with Germany a notable
exception with greater capacity. Once the supply of these resources is exhausted, no amount of good intention (by an NHS or otherwise) will allow hospitals to “cure all” as the limits are really infrastructural rather than insurance.
We here in the USA will soon bump up against similar limits, but have ~35 ICU beds per 100,000 population. And, the patients most at risk for severe disease from Covid-19 are very likely to be covered by the national Medicare system anyway.
16
@RC, MD, PhD The first step toward solving a problem is admitting you have one. Trump is the POTUS. The USA will be the worst hit of any country in the world. 550 cases? Seriously, Maybe 550,000 already. But no test kits is a very convenient way to keep the numbers down. And your assumption about Medicare covering Covid-19 is not based in reality. You know what they say about about who assume.
6
@Jonny Walker
As a dual doctoral-trained ethnic minority atheist physician-scientist living in Boston, I am far from a Trump supporter. And, the US health care system is in desperate need of overall. Finally, I have no doubt that the USA will have a very large number of Covid-19 cases in the end. However, none that that is relevant with regard to the point in question - how many ICU beds per capita are available in a given country/region?
My statement about Medicare is not an assumption; Medicare Part A (hospital insurance) is available free-of-premiums to all American adults over the age of 65 who have paid at least 10 years of Medicare payroll taxes. Hence my statement that most at-risk patients (the elderly) are "very likely" to be covered already. There is ZERO precedent for individual illnesses being somehow excluded for coverage - can you provide any evidence for this claim or is it you who are writing without expertise? Awaiting your sourced and evidence-based rebuttal, though not holding my breath.
3
More importantly to Americans, when will our President begin to take this spread seriously so that Americans understand the issues and follow healthcare guidelines. His political interference and Tweets are causing chaos in our response, and his follower's understanding.
11
I'm first generation American; both my parents were born in Italy. Even I have a strong element of this trait - it's in our DNA. The first thing I said when I heard of this lockdown was that Italians will never follow the rules; it's what makes them who they are.
But they are also a smart bunch so I hope they see beyond their stubbornness and do what they need to do.
9
Communication about the virus was not immediately clear. But already for two weeks many Italians are locked in their homes and move only if forced by work.
A few photos to make scoop does not tell the whole truth. Reality is made by a lot of companies that have activated smart working for hundreds and thousands of employees in a few days, hospitals full of people, doctors, and nurses who are working to the maximum of their strength. Ah, let's remember, the health service in Italy is free, for ALL.
31
I keep in touch with a couple of friends health-professional friends in Italy, and I received this message yesterday (it's a translated summary obviously).
Starting today we are isolated. Theoretically nobody can exit, but since last night, the situation is disastrous; people who live in the North but are originally from the South are trying to flee. They will pay dearly for the lack of respect for the common good, because they will bring the contagion to provinces in the South that are not as well off, and resource poorer, with a health system that is not at the same level as healthcare excellence that we experience here in the North. As far as us health professionals are concerned, we are exhausted. Several of us got sick and/or quarantined; those who remained are going crazy with double shifts or getting back to work earlier. I've seen many people die, and when they die because they cannot breathe, it's the most heartbreaking thing. We have undervalued the problem; it's more difficult to work with colleagues that are moved from one department to another, to work with new colleagues, or with different trainings. The rest of the world is making the same mistake. I hope not, but the problem will spread. Stay at home, limit your social life, get used to limitations. Since you are in contact with so many people around the world, please write to them about our situation, so that they do not make our same mistake.
79
As of March 8th, the prevalence of COVID-19 in Central and Southern Italy is lower than that of Norway, Switzerland, and Iceland, and is not much higher than that of Sweden and France.
Different countries are using wildly different approaches to testing, diagnosing COVID-19, and keeping tally of deaths. So far, Germany, Sweden, and Norway have reported no deaths at all (0 deaths out of 1388 cases). These countries are either cooking the books or waiting to release the actual data not to scare their population. Germany (where the European outbreak probably started) is also deliberately testing at a very, very low pace.
9
@Charles My understanding is that Germany is using HIV drugs and experimental drugs on the very sick and it is working like Tamiflu and Relenza do for the flu. Though I have heard that Germand has thousands of cases that they are not reporting, the 0 deaths I think is accurate.
4
@Jonny Walker My brother is a physician, and yes, they are already using antiviral drugs here as well.
1
@Charles I expect it is a matter of timing in regards to the number of deaths.
Italy had larger numbers of confirmed cases a week or two ahead of Norway, so we are at different stages in the timeline. I will not be surprised if we also start seeing deaths here, once enough at-risk people have had «time» to be infected and become severely ill.
Why is the coronavirus currently so prevalent in Italy?
Particularly Northern Italy?
When, where, how and why did this all start in Italy?
2
@Blackmamba Although the answer to your question is unknown, Italy has a significant Chinese population, especially in Milan. Most likely a person with no outward symptoms came back from visiting China and infected many without realizing it.
7
@Blackmamba because we live in a globalized world and it's just a matter of time before the same happens in your country. We have this situation in Italy simply because we did more tests.
18
@Blackmamba
There are lots of factories in Italy owned by Chinese and
the workers there are Chinese.
These factories produce goods and are able to label them as made in Italy
Get it now. ?
15
I am Italian, I am an American big tech company manager. Working home as well as my family. My grandmother lives in a different city we are in contact via phone.
I live in the red zone area, none is in the street presently (!!), it is not a question of Furbizia or anything different. Ww must give up going out , we must stay at home, limit going out to the minimum (e.g. supermarket weekly maybe) or to work going to work by car only for the extreme need..
Doctors are already saying we are already in stringent emergency in the emergency units, we, as a doctors, are already deciding who lives and who cannot be cured. In any country and now more over in Italy too, init is as such or we will not go anywhere. I blame people as in the NYtime picture, it is not Furbizia, it is the opposite, they are simply stupid, and unfortunate for all of us, stupitidy is absolutely not a characteristic of a nation, of one population, country..and for far so forth...
Some cut on National Health has been done, but believe me, I do like in this moment to live in Italy, where for anyone we have full assistance, proper assistance and free for all. I am tax payer I am glad that my money is spent for this.
87
I'm Italian and to be honest, Italians are messy, unreliable and shambotic.
But, and this is not consolatory, the miserable show offered to the world by the US president and by a classy health system and the last weeks silence on the internal situation of some European country, should suggest to caution in judgements.
At least Italy is trying to deal with the virus at his best at each level and our hospitals, doctors and paramedics are devoting themself at the 100%.
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@Gabriele In a month to six weeks, Italy will be declared safe (as will most of Europe) and the USA will probably be in a state of pandemonium until July. Thousands dead but because Trump won't let anybody get tested there will still only be 500 cases confirmed cases. I do think this is most dangerous one section of the population and for most, it is not reason to panic, but people should comply with the rules, and be reasonable and respectful. Those are not US traits any longer. Thus we have to hear "Trump created this virus to hurt the Chinese" or "The Democrats made up this virus to hurt Trump". Italy will be fine in the not too distant future. They are testing everybody and, as you say, doing their best. The US not so much. If only Milan and Bergamo would shut their airports.
3
@Jonny Walker In the present weeks we all are sharing an experience we're weren't prepared to live that scares most of us.
But we should learn that do not exist a "me, me and myself" solution.
Everyone must do his part staying at home, working, studying but always thinking that the world is a place where billions of people live together.
This - in my opinion - is and will be the only way to deal with such events.
1
@Gabriele Bravo Daniele That is what I was about to write too. This article is really a cheap shot only talking about furbizia and Italians not respecting rules. Too bad the journalists forgot to mention how our health system is working very well despite huge difficulties and NOBODY has to pay thousand of euros for it and everybody who needed has been tested. They forgot to mention there is also people who are showing great solidarity like some signs hanging in some buildings where young people where willing to go food shopping for the elderly or people sending pizza for free to the medical staffs who can't get out of the hospital. Our Government has been honest and opened about what is happening in our Country at the risk of an economical and social crisis. At least we have not been told that everything is fine, no worries and then three States declare state of emergency. Proud to be Italian.
4
“How could one circumvent laws if there were none?” he wrote. It’s a clever line, but it is the arrow that goes to the heart of the common good. The lawbreakers need the common good - otherwise, they would have nothing to steal from.
4
I have a very close friend in Milano of many decades.
Worried, I offered to have him and his family decamp to Bogota where I live. My apartment is big enough to accommodate up to 6 folks without crimping my style.
What do I get in return email.
More of Furbizia - as how this is all a big joke.
The email was complete with an Italian flag - and that folks should really consider visiting Italy and Milano in particular.
Indeed, an open society like Italy - and unlike the closed society of communist China - this lockdown might take more Italians to enforce than these millions of affected folks.
Without being trivial - we should all be praying for warm weather soon - just like it was proven with H1N1, SARS and of course the regular flu.
Normal precautions announced by CDC and others should considerably reduce the infection spread.
3
I have been living in Italy for the past 6 years. I don't think is fair to call them furbi. Italians love to go their favorite bar, shop, bakery, and spend a few minutes talking about everything. I have met my neighbours, not knowing exactly where they live, through their stories. I live in Gello ( I call it Gellotown), in San Giuliano Terme, Tuscany. Every time I went to the bakery close home, everyone just talked about the virus. Everyone confused as to why this was happening in China, at that time no cases in Italy, and if it could really spread that fast- little did we know that was already spreading here. When finally it started to come out in the news, people in other parts of Italy, did not believe it possible that it would spread that fast.
Now Italians depend so much in that family nucleus. Grandparents take care of grandkids. Grandmas picked them up, cook for them, and every Sunday, about 80% percent of Italians have lunch with their families, usually, grandparents, siblings and their partners, kids, etc. After lunch? Well. the famous passeggiata by the Main Street of their town, or close beach, etc. And it is just a traffic jam of friendships sharing hugs, kisses, handshakes.
This is why it makes it so difficult. This weekend we were at "Val di Luce" to ski with friends and their families. Huge tables during dinner. Thou rules were being followed, however, when seeing an old friend, the natural instinct of hugging followed by some laughs and "vabbè".
26
Well, I can see some comments from italian friends and neighbours not beeing very happy that foreigners talk about furbizia... I can understand it but the truth is that furbizia is real and might be our worst enemy in the current situation. And if I can talk about it so freely it is because I am french. We are exactly like you are. And to be honest, from Lisboa to Roma, from Madrid to Marseille, we are latin Europe. We are furbizia.
We should stop for a couple of month and try to mimic a bit more our German neighbour.
Amis italiens, on vous aime. Courage. On est avec vous vous. Ne lachez rien !
40
I'm an American living in Rome for 15 years now and I have concerns for this city. The "menefregisti" abound here and the struggle is real. This is a society that prides itself on furbizia in a way - a sort of collective anarchism or exceptionalism. And it's to the detriment of others in this crisis. We need to heed the pleas of the health workers up north and stay put in order to reduce the need for ventilators, which are already on short supply. I must say there has definitely been a shift in attitudes since the schools were closed last Wednesday. People are taking this far more seriously (calling off all classes, concerts, group activities), but still not seriously enough. My biggest concern is the lack of global coordination on how to confront this. This week it's Italy, but each day those afflicted with COVID-19 grow exponentially and therefore it is bound to explode in the US and elsewhere. There absolutely need to be coordinated efforts globally otherwise, there will be a constant threat of this virus for a very very long time.
93
Enough of this.
I am a lucky person having been able to live several years in London, Sydney and Atlanta, and traveled for business and pleasure all around the world. Every year, I meet hundreds of people from all countries and I enjoy all common and different behaviors across cultures and countries.
What I do not enjoy and appreciate is ignorance.
This is not anymore the communication era, it has become the era of miscommunication.
The "furbizia" sticks to the Italians as much as the "bella vita". I travel around the world weekly and trust me I can see the "furbizia" approach and behavior from all countries I visit including the ones that consider themselves above others.
Back to the coronavirus, I have never read a single comment from the international press on how it's possible that South Korea and Italy have such a large amount of cases while the US and other Western Countries don't. The only reason is due to the number of tests that our health systems have put in place. We learned in these days that the first official case in Europe was in late January in Germany. We also learned that it happened in a company that has been praised for stopping the spread so bravely and suddenly within their staff. Well, we also now know that they did not do such a great job since one of them came to a company in south Milan and spread it around creating the largest and first viral spot in Italy. Ignorant people are starting to believe the virus originated in Italy! God bless us all
61
There are many cases in Italy in particular because it got there early. The “made in Italy” tag still brings in big money when the workers are Chinese nationals working in factories there, and so there are at least 50,000 Chinese workers in Lombardy, as reported by this paper in the past. The rest of Europe and the entire U.S. will have its turn. Let’s not tempt fate being ignorantly self-righteous.
13
@Giovanni In America the equivalent of furbizia is "rugged individualism". We'll see how that works out. By the way, the numbers are low because we are just beginning to test people.
My memories of being in and around Milan two years ago, included a huge encampment of mostly African immigrants outside the train station. I wonder how Italy is handling this? There were also tent camps up and down the train line to Rome from Tuscany. I travel a lot, and because I have been to several countries recently and have met several 'Corona virus refugees', who managed to get out of China either before the travel ban or by paying bribes, I am currently quarantining myself for two weeks. I am older and have friends who have compromised immune systems, so I do not wish to expose them, since the long incubation period, means it is impossible to determine if I have been exposed. I will say this, I have been appalled by the cavalier attitude of some young travelers, they seem unconcerned because they say things like, "well only old people get it, so who cares". I point out that the hero doctor in China was only 34 and he died, they seem to feel that is an anomaly. As a traveler I find that young travelers often step over barricades and fences and go in off limits areas to take selfies, because they don't feel the rules apply to them. The Italian idea of Furbizia, is not unique and I'm not certain that young people will be familiar enough with the concept of sacrifice, to do the right thing.
37
In Italy the national health service has been underfunded for years to accommodate tax cuts for the rich. Same thing happened in all the western world.
Maybe Bernie Sanders can change that.
When the outbreak reaches the US, I hope Americans will do better than us.
17
@Gerardo No, public servants will just be paid more to do nothing except spread corruption. Taxing people is a form of theft. Giving money to civil "servants' is a silly way to redistribute wealth to those who oppose progress and are lazy.
4
Italy didn’t cut healthcare’s fund to cut tax for the rich, don’t spread fake news. Italy cut 40 billions from healthcare’s funds in last ten years but there was no tax cuts, they simply moved founds elsewhere.
11
@Vince Where did they go those forty billions? Do tell us.
“ he said he did not want to be seen as a plague spreader.“
No one wants to be seen as a Typhoid Tommy but if this infection can spread without symptoms for even a few days, then the scenario in Italy can be everywhere soon.
We, or someone we know travel a lot.
Google tracks should be deployed to trace the movements of known carriers and be overlayed on ones own track to reveal any intersections.
This could work through a new app.
If you did cross paths , it would be your cue to self isolate and have a test delivered to you.
8
I am rooting for Italy to beat the virus. They are following the footsteps of China, using quarantine legislation and municipal lockdowns. This virus will be defeated and the Italian people will prevail.
32
The one who is furbo - as Italian as, well, anything really. But I’ve always found that just when you think ‘crazy country’ it turns around - and works. I think the people will come together to squeeze covid 19 to death but sadly not before our Easter holiday there. I wish them all the best.
7
Jail for people out and about? Er, uh, everyone into solitary confinement? Seems unworkable.
1
Anyone wonder what US citizens would do in the face of such a law?
39
@Michael Graca
"Anyone wonder what US citizens would do in the face of such a law?"
I'm guessing that 90% of the people in the picture are American tourists.
10
Just keep showing them the statistics from the region. The numbers speak for themselves.
1
It's human nature to want freedom of choice -- Italians are no different, so the whole premise of this article is off. In fact, almost all media accounts related to this virus are unhelpful and are having the effect of preventing sensible action.
The real problem is very simple but counterintuitive:
This virus is not dangerous because it will make you sick. This virus is dangerous because it will not make you sick.
Almost all who die are those who are very old or already sick. The average age of those who die in Italy is 81, and even those were already sick.
Most people infected show little or no symptoms. The vast majority of people don't need to worry about getting sick and dying. What they need to be worried about is infecting others who will die.
The Italian government dealing with something that is nearly impossible to stop. Given that, we need to give them a lot of leeway.
16
I am surprised that this article quotes Andrej Babiš--the nationalist, anti-immigrant prime minister of the Czsch Republic--as if he speaks for all of Europe when he says that Italians should be banned from travel. During these trying times, we must resist the tug of xenophobia.
This article presents stereotypes about Italians that are neither fair nor helpful in understanding what is really going in this country. People are trying to grapple with an unprecedented situation. They are doing their best. And they should not be vilified for the desire to live some diminished semblance of a normal life.
38
One tenet of being Italian?
The kiss on the cheek, coming and going, for friends and family. I think that will be quite difficult for some to give up.
5
@MelQ
Actually two kisses, one for each cheek, but otherwise so true.
4
I commend Italy on taking this step, as much as it may already be a little too late. Looking at what critical mass needed to be reached in China for them to finally put a muzzle on the outbreak in Wuhan, one could have only hoped that Europeans would be faster to respond. But better late than never, I suppose.
2
There is something even more extremely concerning occuring in Northern Italy, the mortality rate of the diagnosed infected. It is now almost 5% of the total of diagnosed cases. We know that a large number of the diagnosed cases are recently identified, and that the virus doesn't usually cause a fatality until the second week of infection. That means we are probably looking at a 10% or more case fatality rate in this region, more than double Wuhan, and ten times what the estimate is projected to be for outside Wuhan. Is it possible that a new mutated even more virulent viral strain has emerged? Is Italian healthcare so poor that patients who would have otherwise lived staying home are being killed in hospitals? Are only people with very advanced and severe disease being diagnosed, meaning that literally tens of thousands of infected people are not yet diagnosed? This is very disturbing, no matter what the reason.
5
@drcmd - might be related to population structure: Italy has 23% of its population at ages 65 and older... China only has 11% - and we do know that the virus affects older people more severely. But of course, we will only have answers once in-depth regression studies are carried out, after the outbreak is over.
12
It is also possible that the Chinese didn't or couldn't report real numbers.
17
@7heCulture Good point, which I thought of only later. But the worldometers.info website which as perhaps the most in depth up to date analytics indicates a case mortality rate of about 25% in those over age 80, expected to settle at about 15%. And these numbers all below 10% under age 80, down to 3% from age 50 to 60. Thus 100% of the those diagnosed in Italy would have to be age 50 or older to reach a projected 10% case mortality rate for currently diagnosed patient. I agree with you that age is contributing something to these state, I missed that in my original post, but probably something else is going on. Or, the actual case mortality rates are just much higher for older people than those reported in China.
3
The Milan airport is still open and Emirates airline among others is flying in and out daily and so refusing to refund customers that understandably don’t want to fly into a restricted area they presumably can’t leave.
21
@Jeanml They just changed the policy: they now give full refunds or vouchers to be used within one year, or they changed the reservations. I just did it. Was supposed to head to Milan tonight.
1