Is there any way we can quarantine Donald Trump?
35
@Gene
Have you considered visiting a voting booth at the earliest opportunity? That's always an option.
31
22 deaths from a 500 cases in the U.S. is welcome news. The fatality rate is still 2% similar to China and in sharp contrast to Iran and Italy where there is over 4% fatality rate. Why do I call this welcome news? 98% of the cases have survived so far and of the 22 deaths, 11 were in a nursing home in Kirkland, WA outside Seattle which had over 70 year old seniors with multiple underlying life threatening conditions.
It is about time for the sake of public health to reveal the age of those who died and whether they were smokers. For the sake of privacy, their names could be kept confidential. The standard of care of infectious diseases in the US with immunocompetent person under 70 must be great for fatality rate to be around 1%.
I am excited that the fatality of younger than 70, non smokers getting plenty of fresh air and kept far away from cruise ship with infected persons or from infected persons in closed crowded areas. Keep safety measures in place .
Although the number of cases of persons exposed could well rise to a 1,000 in a week, the nation will start building a herd immunity that will help to decimate and eliminate, the Corona virus within a month or two. Humanity will be winning its war against Corona virus before we know it. The panic selling on wall street will continue to bring the markets down but that is not as important. Health first. As I had said yesterday Corona infection is CURABLE and not fatal in immunocompetent nonsmokers below the age of 70.
9
Girish
Uh, thanks, doc?
20
@Girish Kotwal There may be far more than 500 cases here, as well as far more COVID-19 caused deaths. Without tests how would we know?
In fact, teo of the nursing home deaths showed as death by “ natural causes” until there was a review of recent deaths and those two were found to have died of coronavirus. How many more deaths are flying under the radar? How much COVID-19 illness?
3
I am not sure whether my comment above was clear as to how I came up with the 2% fatality rate. I was taking into account only the 11 that were not from the nursing home in WA. It is also possible that of the remaining 11, some others were above 70, making it an even lower fatality among the younger immunocompetent persons. My last sentence is fairly accurate but that accuracy cannot be confirmed without knowing the breakdown of the patients and their age.
I just found out that an infected person has been admitted in an isolation unit less than 2 miles from where I live and an investigation is on to determine who that person was in contact with. I was just across in the COSTCO a few yards from this hospital and in Loew's just next to it. I am in the process of finding out when exactly that infected person was in the area. Having said that I was hoping to test my numbers hypothesis that an infected person at a distance of more than 50 ft, if exposes me to less that 100 virius particles, I will acquire immunity within 3 wks that will protect me forever. If that person was closer than 5 ft and I am exposed to more than a million particles than there could be a mild infection and if that person was within one to 2 feet and I was exposed to a billion or more particles, I could not say what could happen, with no FDA approved antiviral treatment and none in sight. All I can do then is to trigger an advantage for my immune system with 100% pomegranate juice. Good night. God speed.
1
This is not the first epidemic/ maybe pandemic originating in China. And it will not be the last. I promise!
12
If the mishandling of coronavirus doesn’t reveal to all of America what a fraud and failure Trump is, we are truly lost as a nation.
126
NY Times is spreading falsehood. According to Taiwan CDC: On March 8, the Central Epidemic Command Center reported details about a cluster of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) infection on a Nile River cruise boat. A research team at the National Taiwan University, College of Medicine discovered that there is a significant difference between the genome sequence of the strain of virus isolated from Case #39’s specimen and the sequences from Taiwanese patients and that the strain of virus from Case #39 belongs to the same clade of the strains of virus in Europe, Nigeria, Brazil and Italy. The study showed that Case #39 is only an index patient who was first diagnosed with COVID-19 but not the source of infection. It is determined that Case #39 contracted the novel coronavirus in Egypt, and developed symptoms after returning to Taiwan and that this is an imported case.
3
"The outbreak has been traced to a Taiwanese-American woman who was on the boat in January, suggesting the many others could have been exposed in the intervening weeks." This above statement is a falsehood. Yet another lie by the WHO and Egypt. Taiwan CDC: On March 8, the Central Epidemic Command Center reported details about a cluster of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) infection on a Nile River cruise boat. A research team at the National Taiwan University, College of Medicine discovered that there is a significant difference between the genome sequence of the strain of virus isolated from Case #39’s specimen and the sequences from Taiwanese patients and that the strain of virus from Case #39 belongs to the same clade of the strains of virus in Europe, Nigeria, Brazil and Italy. The study showed that Case #39 is only an index patient who was first diagnosed with COVID-19 but not the source of infection. It is determined that Case #39 contracted the novel coronavirus in Egypt, and developed symptoms after returning to Taiwan and that this is an imported case.
1
@George I find it interesting that they point out it's a Taiwanese-American. If it had been a caucasian American woman, they would have just said "an American woman". Seems a bit racist to need to point out that she is of Taiwanese. heritage.
2
I’d like to know where the data on numbers of infected persons and fatalities are coming from. As of this morning, the World Health Organization lists 213 confirmed cases of infection and 11 deaths in the United States. Thanks.
1
NYT predictably makes the oil price crash all about Saudi and Russia. Both had been restraining production, ceding markets to US producers (who have higher production costs). This appears to be about squeezing excess supply out of the market, and high cost suppliers will feel the squeeze most of all. Will they be US suppliers, whose costs are high, Mideast producers who need high price to buy social tranquility, or Russia? Russia, squeezed by sanctions and prepared to cope with low oil price, having already been forced to improve efficiency, may be best situated here. Time may tell.
I would welcome a lockdown. Better now than later. As a small business owner I am going to suffer either way and it could mean bankruptcy for me but I am also over 50 and have parents with health conditions and loved ones with immune compromised conditions.
I am very skeptical a vaccine will ever be successful against this virus- there is still no vaccine for SARS or MERS and the vaccine for feline corona virus that causes FIP doesn’t work.
I want our government to act decisively now . I do not want the public to panic but I want them to know this isn’t the flu ; this isn’t going to magically go away on its own.
13
Our best government scientists said tonight they believe we will witness world wide spread. This means many will die.
A minority - parenteral. Subcutaneous.
Thus New corona virus Covid 19 could find its way to billions. A percent of the infected, symptomatic or not, may not ever exhibit the illness. Only good testing will determine things.
Most will survive. Still, practice makes sense.
3
Yesterday the NYT article clearly said the “lock down” in Italy was unlikely to be effective. The PM said the main roads would be watched but that it was not possible to prevent movement.
Closing airports & other transportation centers might help but restricting all movement isn’t possible in a democracy.
The very best advice would seem for people with underlying health conditions to be extremely cautious about where they go and what events they attend.
4
I know this much is true. The Coronavirus outbreak and the financial markets are going to get worse before they get better.
Unlike the Republican Party, the Coronavirus is completely immune to Donald Trump’s misstatements and tweets. Who knew?
13
We should be concerned: one week ago there were 2 fatalities in WA state. Why people are still traveling for business and pleasure is beyond my understanding. It is every person’s duty to prevent transmission. That response starts at the individual level. People need to stop being so ignorant of the risks (and that means employers, too).
11
This just shows you again.
The USA is asleep at the wheel again.
It has been for years on end.
Maybe this will wake it up?
But don't count on it.
5
Should we concern ourselves with uninformed trumpers who believe the guy they worship who said it's all a hoax or made up by Democrats? They also watch an entertainment channel as if it's real news. I'm truly concerned about these people spreading this virus due to hating the truth.
10
These gop rallies... they’re going to stop. It’s going to be hard to keep the storyline about the crazy overreacting mainstream media when the rallies are canceled. Maybe trump will just go back to blaming Obama or immigrants. Or open borders. I’m sure he’ll think of something.
8
Tomorrow, Monday, when 3,000 people, including some of whom are already infected with COVID-19, disembark from the Grand Princess at the Port of Oakland, CA, some to be transferred for quarantine to military bases in California, Texas and George, and foreign passengers to be flown on charter flights from Oakland International Airport to their home countries, how successful will the authorities be in screening, let alone accounting for all of these people?
Earlier, when the passengers were confined to their cabins, one sent a selfie to a news outlet saying she was starting to have hallucinations. How many of these hyperstressed passengers will decide they can't stand being isolated any longer and will somehow manage to enter the city and disperse to wherever they decide to go?
This scenario is worrisome, as Governor Newsom is well aware, and he has said the whole operation could take three days or longer. For everyone's sake, let's hope that it all goes off smoothly.
4
@dutchiris why don’t they just Cancel Cruises until virus is under control? Everyone knows they r Petri dishes. It is all about money. And would a responsible person even go on such a vacation at this point in time?
8
Dateline Monday 9 March. Wall Street is rapidly moving towards a bear market.
The Australian share market has lost 6% — more than $100 billion in today's trade so far, amid the economic fallout from the coronavirus and an oil price war.
It has been the worst day of trade since November 2008.
6
@Rod Clearly, if we want a stable market, we MUST have some sort of world-wide infectious disease control. It cannot be a national, political, economic or religious organization, and it must be maintained in times of universal health in order to be ready in times of universal pandemic.
Dateline Monday 9 March. Wall Street is rapidly moving towards a bear market.
The Australian share market has lost 6% — more than $100 billion in today's trade so far, amid the economic fallout from the coronavirus and an oil price war.
It has been the worst day of trade since November 2008.
1
‘The Italian outbreak — the worst outside Asia — has inflicted serious damage on one of Europe’s most fragile economies... The country’s cases nearly tripled from about 2,500 infections on Wednesday to more than 7,375 on Sunday.’
Italy had no choice but to close off a substantial part of the country. Folks, this is what a pandemic may well look like elsewhere around the world. Italy just got a head start.
China used even more draconian measures than Italy and reportedly is finally bringing its epidemic under control. It remains to be seen whether lesser measures will work elsewhere.
Once we start testing in earnest and at the rate necessitated by local events, we may find our own recognized numbers of cases expanding rapidly. Regional closures here probably won’t be far behind.
As if things couldn’t be worse, we have an incompetent and scientifically illiterate egomaniac trying to lead us out of what may soon be an endemic disease. His plan seems to be hope for the best, don’t plan for the worst, and blame everyone else for his plight.
What a loser. He should resign if he’s not up to the job.
5
Most notable in Trump’s response to this crisis so far has been to; 1. Hold self-serving, campaign rallies potentially exposing hundreds of his supporters and others they come in contact with to the virus. 2. Accuse Democrats of politicizing the crisis while he calls the democratic governor of a state that is dealing with the crisis a “snake.” 3. Expect the American people will believe whatever he has to say about the impact of the virus despite his reputation for lying and a tally of over 17,000 lies told and counting. 4. Impose himself at the CDC for a campaign photo op while they are working to develop a vaccine. And most importantly, hangout with his entourage at Mar a Lago. Stay tuned...
2
Imagine this headline: "In U.S. Cases of Flu Cross 500, and Deaths Rise to 22." You can't imagine it because it would never happen, since cases of flu cross the hundreds of thousands if not millions, and in 2019 alone, over 5,000 people died from the flu.
There is far too much hysteria going on for something that is tracking very much like a "regular" flu: the transmission pattern is similar, the morality rate (~2%) is exactly the same as the average flu, and those who have died are in the same demographics as those who die of flu: the elderly, those with compromised immune systems, and those with pre-existing underlying respiratory issues.
We should all certainly take normal precautions, just as we would during any flu season. Get a flu shot (even a non-coronavirus flu shot can help), wash hands frequently (hand sanitizers are only temporary measures), get checked out if you feel truly ill. Beyond that, don't give in to the hysteria and hyperbole out there. The CDC and WHO are providing the facts; the news media and others are not experts, and should really stop covering this like it is a quasi-Armageddon. They are only making things worse.
4
@Maani Rantel
I know it’s a typo, but this administration’s “morality rate (~2%)” is inadvertently accurate.
3
@Paul Thanks. I saw that just two seconds too late. I also left the comma out between U.S. and Cases. Arggh.
@Maani Rantel
The morality lapsus is fun, but the figures are far off:
An average yearly flu in France touches 8 millions and kills 8000. Mortality rate: 8000/8000 000= 1/ 1000
As of now, mortality rate of the coronavirus epidemics in France: 21/1100 = 2/100.
Coronavirus' mortality is ten times higher and there is no reason to think it is worse here than anyplace else...
In Italy it is about 5% (350 of 7500 cases), in China, it was around 3%.
3
Excellent but scary On Assignment with Richard Engel on MSNBC this evening about the virus, it’s beginnings and the spread.
Very scary how unprepared this country is and we are supposedly one of the leading nations in the world, well we were. This administration has to go.
They have put this country at such great risk and are clueless as to what to do.
5
The most frightening thing to me is that, after almost 50 years as a proud American, this is the first time that I feel I can't trust my government.
5
What about the last 3 years?
2
Was it a mistake to allow 4,000 passengers to leave a Carnival cruise ship in Long Beach? One ill passenger tested negative for coronavirus but s/he could test positive in a few days as well as one or more of the other passengers who are now at large in California or elsewhere in the US. Another 4,000 passengers have boarded the ship for a week-long cruise. It seems long past time to shut down ALL cruises.
19
@Lynn in DC someone should bring a lawsuit against the cruise lines for knowingly endangering public health. I am sure a sure some smart attorney can figure it out.
1
Having been a hospital COO, I see the best course of action, with so many questions, is to avoid public places if you/we have any sort of compromised immune system. Just stay hone, out of harm's way. Harm's way would include -most likely - going in to urgent care. Call the primary doctor - if there is one. Check to see what local hospitals advise. I sure don't know that I'd go into an ER unless the ER had a separate facility to treat me....even then...
It seems worth it the most to check locally before going to a high germ, crowded place.
9
I would suggest that those of us living close to hotspots be automatically tested as in S. Korea, and that testing be prioritized by geographical hotspots. Washington residents are a top priority, Oregonians and California residents also a priority. If a pharmacy in a grocery store, or a Walgreens, etc., can give flu shots, then why aren’t we gearing up for widespread testing in critical areas...
37
I watched Ben Carson’s interview with Stephanopolus this morning and it was frightening. He doesn’t have a clue what is going on and he is on the “Task Force”, along with other appointed cabinet members who have appear to have been given the orders to give a positive narrative so that Trump doesn’t look like he’s incompetent. Why are appointed cabinet members who are not infection/pandemic specialists the only ones who are allowed to give updates? I hope every American watches this interview to understand the degree of political narrative that’s happening.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/03/08/ben_carson_says_plans_to_deal_with_coronavirus-infected_cruise_ship_arent_fully_formulated.html
69
@Bob Totally agree! Unfortunately half of US citizens don't care who is in Trump's cabinet. They will support just about ANYONE as long as he (for it would never be a woman) pushes through their Evangelical agenda.
3
Thank god for the nytimes. Seriously. Anyone who I talk to who hasn’t been following this story through the times has no idea what’s going on.
Another indication this is serious is Fox News -finally- started to feature covid front and center on their app. It didn’t fit their narrative before but now they can’t avoid it or pretend otherwise. It’s a crazy world.
62
We thought this was a Chinese problem. We instituted heavy travel restrictions for China and thought that would be the end of it. Similar elementary logic behind installing wall to keep out illegals. We all know the real world doesn’t work like that. We went to sleep thinking we were safe over the past 8 weeks while the rest of the world was melting down, our government did virtually nothing to prepare our society from the onslaught that we are seeing now. Inability to test people in the past month created the appearance that we are safe from the outbreak ravaging the rest of the world. Meanwhile travelers of ALL RACE either returned home to the US or visited from abroad were quietly bringing the virus to our communities and unknowingly allowing it to spread and incubate. The explosively high percentage of positive test results we are seeing now is a direct result of the confluence of these factors. Had we began to prepare and gotten ready starting from two months ago, we would have put measures in place to slow down outbreaks. Instead we are now reacting to outbreaks that have been quietly brewing for all this time. Its like reading two month old news and using that info and data set to make life or death decisions today. The perfect storm is here. Thank you for keeping us safe America.
33
As a physician it is pathetic that I get better COVID-19 information from the NYT than the CDC.
Why did we vote for small government and against universal healthcare?
182
China has given the world the gift that keeps on giving and is taking away and destroying.
ALL the deadly virus pandemics (with the exceptions of the MERS and Ebola pandemics) which have plagued the world, including the current version, SARS and all those going as far back as the 1918 influenza pandemic that killed more people than who died during WWI, have all originated from China.
1918 Flu Pandemic That Killed 50 Million Originated in China, Historians Say
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/1/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health/
China manages its economy on the cheap as the sources are China’s unregulated livestock industry which is a cesspool of dangerous viruses and bacteria. The science of the transfer of virus from animals to humans has been proved. There will be more pandemics originating from China as long as China’s livestock industry is unregulated.
If the coronavirus reaches Africa or large developing countries in south Asia (India, Pakistan, etc.) or in the west Pacific (Indonesia, Philippines, etc.) then it can spread to be a global disaster. This is because these countries do not have the infrastructure to deal with or control coronavirus.
What will China do to compensate the civilized world for:
1. giving the coronavirus to the world that is spreading without any end in sight,
2. its unregulated reckless industries and
3. its immeasurable vast theft of intellectual property that have taken so much away from the West?
27
@Gerry O'Brien Actually the theory that "Spanish Flu" originated in China is disputed. Most viruses originate in tropical areas, and are spreadably more quickly in densely populated areas. The flu epidemic of 1918 spread so quickly because of WWI, and the fact that millions of soldiers were camped together and then went home to their countries. Many viruses originate in South America (zika), Africa (HIV) and other places.
33
@Gerry O'Brien Chinaphobia; join Trump in the corner.
37
@jfdenver
As an Economist, I am always amazed by deniers of science, facts and evidence.
Read the National Geographic article:
1918 Flu Pandemic That Killed 50 Million Originated in China, Historians Say
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/1/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health/
11
So the "common" flu I have read over the last month has killed 18,000 in the US this "season". Little or no Panick Press coverage at all and yet C19 is all over the airwaves? "Common" flu I guess does not sell readership. Emergency funding, test kits, stay at home pay demands, HR issues? Really folks how about some VERY common sense? Flu-like symptoms?...... stay home, plenty of fluids and bedrest. No cruses or air travel. The sky is not falling and The Gobernment is not here as your personal safety net. Stay calm and carry on.
6
@Robert
Please quit comparing this virus to the flu. There is a reason that medical experts and scientists all over the world have raised an alarm over this new coronavirus, and it would be wise to listen to them. I wouldn't shrug this off as you seem to be doing.
109
The Covid19 virus can multiply exponentially. That is the problem. It is not the flu.
42
Yes, because every year tens of millions of Americans get the flu. Hundreds of thousands of people would die of coronavirus if it was that widespread. Downplaying the threat that coronavirus poses is dangerous.
40
Many people commenting here seem troubled, even angry, that President Trump has encouraged Americans to go about the normal business of life during this "crisis".
The simple answers are:
It is not yet a crisis. (though you wouldn't know that by observing mainstream media)
You can't just quarantine 300-million Americans, under any circumstances. Even when absolutely indicated, telling 300-million people that they can't do this or do that is going to be...problematic. People need paychecks. People have family, friends. And if you think store shelves will empty of toilet paper and bottled water when they're raided by a few hundred customers, imagine a raid by a few hundred million. Oh, and not to mention the effect to American daily life when the people who MAKE that toilet paper are told to stay home too.
We lack self-discipline, anyway. We are not China or the Chinese people. It's ironic. Times readers complain about draconian government containment efforts, but are the first to gripe when "Trump is doing nothing!"
There's always you. That's where any mass quarantine would begin anyway. If you wish to self-isolate, go ahead. No one can stop you. And therein lies the rub:
By self-isolating where and when numbers and the logic say you really shouldn't, what harm might you be causing to your fellow citizen? Heaven help us if you work in a toilet paper factory.
19
@Ray Sipe
Sorry, pal. I'm no "Trumpie". Just a college-educated, thinking person who is enjoining people NOT to panic and thus force the price of a barrel of oil to fall.
Got it?
16
Look at the math if you believe in that sort of thing.
10
Unless one is an epidemiologist, private opinion on this virus is useless -- even harmful I check the CDC and Johns Hopkins sites, each of which deals calmly and informatively regarding Covid.
The media knows no more than what MDs tell it and one can get the same information -- absent dire warnings made to sell copies and airtime -- by going to the above sites.
You would not ask a "journalist" to decide whether you need cancer treatment; Why would you trust them in this matter?
15
I get it. You are a stable genius, just like you know who
22
It’s MCAS Miramar (MCAS = Marine Corps Air Station) not NAS Miramar. If you can’t get that right with an easy Google search, how can you expect your readers to trust anything else you write that may be far more important?
5
The WHO is at least partly to blame for the mess. After the massive lockdown in Wuhan, that should be indication enough that this is a serious matter. Remembering this is from the CCP that values stability and wanted to avoid any public spectacle that might attribute blame towards it. Yet even then, the WHO had not declare an emergency.
If world leaders had closed borders to and from China for perhaps a few weeks this kind of disaster could have been avoided.
It might have been bad for business for everyone, and no one could tell what the financial cost would have been, but at least your countrymen would risk a lot less by this new virus than now. And it is not like the financial cost would be any less significant now.
Hong Kong's population had been asking it's non-responsive and non-representative government to close borders with China to no avail. But it pains me more to see elected governments worldwide had not seen this danger, even with ample warning signs way back in January. The only countries that had taken early effective response is the likes of Russia and North Korea, which both had closed borders with China. This is not rocket science, and leaders should have acted much earlier. Get your act together, folks.
6
How do you know if and when N Korea closed its border? It has not reported any cases and most likely won’t. Its health care system is ill-equipped to handle any health crisis. They prefer to divert attention by shooting missiles in the air. Who knows what the numbers are.
1
I agree that the real infection count there would be unknown to everyone (perhaps including the North Korean leaders), however, it is also true that they declared border closure very early on. If nothing else, I think we can agree that border closure to the countries with apparent significant number of cases would have been the most straightforward and effective means of control.
BTW acute bronchitis can not be diagnosed on an X-Ray. It is a non-specific clinical diagnosis, that includes infections like CoronaVirus. Ruling out flu was useful it should have made you eligible for a CoronaVirus test - except we voted for small government and against universal healthcare instead.
29
Covid may be one of key events that triggers the start of dystopian societies. Chaos around the world will likely strengthen the argument for surveillance state way of governing. Governments of the free world will continue to appear to be weak to its own people. Some governments may use the people’s fear as justification for surveillance thus empowering themselves. Trump and perhaps others in the US dreamed of this kind of power. Covid may be the spark that helps them start that movement.
9
Trump’s White House shut down the Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense established at the National Security Council in 2016 by President Barack Obama after the 2014 Ebola outbreak. GOPs plan for small government and low taxes is going to turnout to be the stupidest thing done by any administration in the history of The United States. Who would have thought that the medical savant and chosen one would make such an error.
96
Where is the leadership in this country.
55
When is the President going into self going into self-quarantine? Oh, that's right, he thinks this is all a hoax created by the Democrats. Does Ted Cruz feel the same way?
37
@DrG
As long as his Twitter account is up and running he'll be able to run the country.
We had 15 cases and 0 deaths on 2/28. We now have 544 cases and 22 deaths on 3/8. At this rate, we “could” have 19k cases and 300 to 500 deaths by 3/17. If this happens, man people are going to be reeling. This is really crazy-sad-unbelievable that the USA is in this situation. Crazy.
26
Half the countries in the world are effected. Yes, we’re a great country, and hope we vote to keep it great, but we are not immune to an invisible virus.
That said, take comfort that we have the lowest rate of infection per million among the the top 30 countries with the most cases. US 1.6 per million, China 56 per million, S Korea 144, Italy 122 and so on.
1
Too little, too late.
23
I’ve been sick now for about 12 days after being in SF for a week for a conference right as cases were being reported there.
I tried calling around and going to am UC. NOBODY has been able to tell me where a test might be easily available. It seemed that if I was willing to get a chest XRay, chest CT, multiple blood and flu tests, and spend $3-4K, them they *might* recommend a test.
The good news is my cough and breathing are finally subsiding, as is my fever. But, I wonder if I had coronavirus, and if so, did I infect people while trying to unsuccessfully seek treatment and testing?
I would not be surprised if the numbers in NYC were really more in the upper thousands or tens of thousands. Most people (like maybe myself) just get a miserable cold it seems.
135
If you had been in the UK you would have placed a call to the National Health Service hot line and would then have been advised either to go to a designated hospital or a drive-up test location. If to a hospital you would then have followed signs to a coronavirus isolation pod. There a properly protected nurse would have taken samples by swab. You would then have been instructed to return home and remain in self-isolation. A couple of hours later the results would have been reported to you. If positive you would then have been given further instructions regarding isolation or hospitalization. That is what should be happening here, but thanks to complete mishandling of the crisis it is not. You potentially exposed an untold number of people to the virus, some of whom would likely die. And meanwhile our broken health care system (actually à corporate profit generating system) finds a way, as usual, to monetize sickness and death. Thank you, "President" Trump.
79
Truth to Power
Wow. I work in healthcare and your comment is “spot on.” I am sorry to day that everything you said is true.
25
Gee, then why does the UK have a rate of infection 2 1/2 times worse than the US? (US 1.6 per million; UK 4.1 per million) Sounds good on paper, but the reality doesn’t match up.
2
Why identify the woman in Egypt as “Taiwanese” American? Her ethnicity has nothing to do with the virus. It is whether she traveled to China or traveled wherever. She should simply have been referred to as an American. I haven’t seen any other patients referred to as Italian American or German American etc. This fosters miss information and racial stereotyping
144
@js
This is not an isolated situation. I have seen other articles clarify the nationality/ethnicity of virus victims, such as the German tourist who died in Egypt and the Italian citizen in Nigeria.
1
Sure, Trump thinks (an oxymoron) that he is safe. The virus would not dare get him down. Can't he understand that this virus is not an abstraction, or a hoax, it is reality. He is setting a bad example for people, but then, that is nothing new. I won't miss him if he departs.
29
Yet more photos from the New York Times where people on foreground are masked, but when you look past them most people aren't, perpetuating the myth that most are/should be wearing masks.
4
Masks in the general population should be used for people who are sick and symptomatic. Masks should be used in all healthcare providers and first responders so they won’t infect others while they are doing their jobs.
The experts said not to wear masks unless you’re sick. Plus they don’t protect anyone from getting infected. They just created a false sense of security.
9
You can be sure Ted Cruz will want special treatment even though he takes positions against ordinary people. Hypocrisy at its best.
67
This is leading to his demise. It’s a wrap.
14
Thank you, NYT, for your updates. It is very much appreciated.
52
I think Trump, Pence, and Trump's family should all self quarantine. Just to give the rest of us peace.
125
I would like people to stop comparing this to the flu, at least for now. For one thing, a runny nose is not thought to be a symptom of COVID-19. Also, we are only a few months into scientific research. We have to be concerned with the fact that there is no vaccine, we do not have the luxury of years of research, we do not know if it is biphasic, we do not know if it hides within the body after recovery, we have not pinned down all the existing strains and their impacts.
Let’s not blame the media for providing real-time updates, and let’s stop deeming them “alarmist propaganda”. This is a gift to modern society, and we can interpret the data as we choose; we cannot interpret anything that is not provided to us. I, for one, would be disappointed with anything less than the coverage we have been provided thus far, and I would fear the day this coverage ceases.
145
Why is the name of the infected individual at the CPAC conference not being reported? How are people supposed to know if they interacted with that person if the identity is being concealed?
33
His name is Paul Gosar.
3
Charlie
HIPPA and patient privacy. The health department will do contact tracing and investigation, just like they do with other infectious diseases, like TB and HIV.
However, if you have concerns and have some exposure, you should call your local health department, and be tested. If tests are in fact available.
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I’m surprised our genius president isn’t sending all the quarantine cases to Guantanamo.
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More deaths from Covid-19 in France, Spain and the U.S. but CDC still consider Japan and Hong Kong as more risky... We also need to remember more than a half of the cases in Japan come from the American-operated Cruise ship, Diamond Princess. How does CDC assess the level of risk and how much biases are there towards non-Western countries that misguide their judgements?
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Does this mean everyone who gets the flu dies? Is there any hope? Oh please, God?
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@siebert; I'm so sorry you're terribly scared, but please don't panic. unless you're in the most vulnerable category of older people with weak immune systems or with the kind of underlying conditions that will be most affected by this virus, you are not likely to die even if you get the coronavirus. Please focus on the facts and try to stay calm. The only thing that will prevent true chaos is paying attention to the facts and doing what you can. it is clear by now that you need to wash your hands the proper way, don't touch your face and stay away from people who are already sick. if you are in the most vulnerable category then maybe you should stay home. Please don't let fear control you right now. We all need to stay calm and only read reputable sources of news. it will only make you miserable if you allow panic to rule and it won't keep you any safer from the coronavirus.
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We need more trustworthy sources of information, like this NYT article.
I can highly recommend an article recently put up at Ars Technica. It's comprehensive, well-written and will be updated as further info becomes available. I have no affiliation with the author or site, just found it a valuable resource.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/03/dont-panic-the-comprehensive-ars-technica-guide-to-the-coronavirus/?comments=1
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"{Italy's] cases nearly tripled from about 2,500 infections on Wednesday to more than 7,375 on Sunday. Deaths rose to 366."
It's past time for a piece on the mortality rate of this virus. So far, the numbers have been all over the map. The data for Italy, for example, shows a mortality rate of 4.96%.
Compared to what other countries are reporting, Is this high, or is it low? How does it compare to the "common flu" (after all, this is just another flu, is it not)?
At this time, we need all of the perspective that top-flight reporting can offer us.
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@BayArea101
It's really hard to know. You need to relate the number of infections to the number of people tested.
Unless you test the entire population, the number of confirmed cases is very dependent on the number of tested cases.
In places where the healthcare system gets many cases, death rates goes up, because there will be a lack of resources needed to decrease mortality.
For instance the death rate in Wuhan (which at the start of the epidemic did not have sufficient resources) is much higher than in the rest of China, because in most other parts of China there was a sufficient amount of intensive care in relation to the number of cases, which were kept much lower thanks to the quarantines.
The furore in Australia today: a well known doctor contracted the virus in the US. He was in vacation in Denver. Returned to Australia via San Francisco. He started to feel unwell on the journey home. As a precaution he tested himself. He had the virus. So the unanswered question is: does Denver have an unrecorded outbreak ? I haven’t seen this city mentioned on lists.
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@Sunny
A couple of cases reported in Denver as of Friday.
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/2-new-cases-of-novel-coronavirus-reported-in-denver-city-says
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Am fascinated doc was able to test himself. Must be much easier access to tests in Australia.
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European disorder or strategy : does it please make sense, cari, to announce a lock down and having millions leaving the quarantine zones ahead ? – matter of panic meanwhile, and Syria still on the paper.
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Yet another failure by Governor Newsom.
Why is the ship docking in Oakland? Is it because of the poverty and people of color there?
There are naval bases all along the entire coast of California. The ship should doc at a naval base with the passengers safely transported a quarantined area and hospital for treatment.
A military is the best chance for quarantine and control. Oakland is a majoring shipping container port. It makes no sense.
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That ship is huge -- weighs more than 100, 000 tons. Are you sure all those other ports could accommodate it?
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The ship is docking at a COMMERCIAL PORT, where there are very few people. Do you think it's at JL?
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It’s not like they are releasing the people on the cruise ship out into the general public. I suspect they will take them to Travis Air Force for quarantine like they did with the unfortunate people on the cruise ship held in limbo in Japan.
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We have friends stranded on the Princess ship. None appear to have been infected. One individual is in fragile health due to chemo treatments. These people have health care and the means to get from Point A to Point B by ambulance if necessary, but there is no escape.
Meanwhile, they have to sit isolated in their rooms and listen to Donald Trump blather about how even the sick won't be allowed off for treatment because his "statistics" are so important, and that he himself is an expert on this disease.
He truly is an evil thing.
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@KJ
Please shut down the cruise ships. It's the only thing that will work if people are irresponsible enough to take a cruise during this crisis. Jeez!
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This is not about Donald.. this is about irresponsible individuals who go on a cruise ships when they should stay home !! That’s all. Stop blaming the world and take responsibility to your actions, people!!
We all know how a cruise ship ends now..
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@Sue I must say, the shutting down of cruise ships could help us in ways we never expected. Imagine the claustrophobic Molotov of this thing. Maybe it will help.
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A friend's son is very ill with a cough and went to an urgent care in NYC... he ws told he couldn't be tested because he hadn't traveled internationally. Is this lack of testing an intentional way to keep the confirmed cases low?
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@FB I strongly believe that the "shortage" of tests is deliberate. Our president has demonstrated time and again that he is more concerned with the optics of a high number of cases than the impact on our health and daily lives.
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When did this happen, like today or last week? I heard the Mayor and/or city health director say yesterday thsy people who need advice on where to be tested should call 311.
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@FB
I find it challenging to parse out what is Trump’s basic ignorance and incompetence and what is deliberate malfeasance to feed his malignant personality disorder.
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wait a sec.
didn’t we just see Pence oozing reassurance at a news conference surrounded by cruise industry execs?
and what if we don’t have enough tests because DJT doesn’t want us to know the extent of this debacle... (“just a hunch.”)
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@Adam The cruise industry is in an existential momement. They whole business is about to go belly up. They will say and do anything to deceive the public to save themselves. Pence is doing their bidding instead of his duty to protect the public. This admin. is always about corporate profits over the lives of ordinary citizens. SAD!!!
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The numbers grow, of course. But we need reports on growth rate. In the USA and states within, it appears to be 25-50% per day. We can go to Johns Hopkins and download data that is always an hour to a day behind. NYT should do a better job informing us, quantitatively on how quickly National, regional, and statewide numbers grow. For this purpose, perhaps specifically metro NYC south through Philadelphia and adjacent areas should be considered one region?
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If Trump and the whole gaggle who went to the conservative forum get tested for COVID-19, and especially if tested prior to those approved to cross our southern border from Mexico, then T and the others need to be arrested for impersonating US citizens.
7
From today's Oregonian:
"Oregon health officials are testing only people sick enough to be hospitalized who don’t have the flu, people with symptoms who also have traveled to the countries most affected by the coronavirus outbreak and people who have had contact with a person with the disease."
What were Trump and Pence saying last week about "anyone who wants a test gets one"?
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@J Anders
A person can have the flu AND coronavirus, so this makes no sense!
8
This is how the virus slips out into the community.
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I'm a resident of NYC and a teacher here in the city. So far, we've received a few "wash your hands!" memos from the CDC and NYC DOE, but that's about it. Carranza has said that closing schools will only be considered as an extreme measure.
Meanwhile, my students (ages 12-14) are asking the right questions:
1) If this isn't a big deal, why do we see videos of the Chinese government using trucks with giant water guns to spray down entire streets from top to bottom?
2) Why have entire countries closed schools for weeks/a month when we've never seen that for the flu? Even if they just have a couple thousand cases (a small number compared to their total populations)
3) If it's in Seattle and CA, why are people still flying from those places to NYC, unchecked?
3b) how many flights per day land in NYC?
3c) how many passengers from those flights then take public transportation throughout the city?
4) why are they still not testing that many people here?
5) I live with my grandma. Is she gonna be okay?
6) How many people live in NYC? What's 1-3.5% of that number? (A: another big number.)
As an American, I am worried that the failure to act by our government will be disastrous for the entire world. As a teacher, I'm proud that my students ask the questions that our government is too cowardly to address publicly.
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@HarborMaster
Impressive critical thinking on the part of your students. They have given me some badly needed hope today. Thank you for all you do for your students, too.
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@HarborMaster
Sounds like you have great students! Yes, Delhi closed its schools even though there were only 30 cases in India!
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@HarborMaster Smart kids. Best question of the bunch above is why domestic travel from hotspots is still allowed.
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Trump and Pence are useless in this matter. They should be ignored. Not one piece of information either of them has put out this week, has been useful, and more often than not, has been just plain inaccurate.
The White House press pool should just abandon Pennsylvania Avenue and go on the hunt for better sources. The journalist pool that follows Trump back and forth to Florida, should do the same.
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@Joe B
I wondered from the beginning how a guy who doesn't believe in evolution can figure out how viruses mutate.
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This is an experiment. Not only "will we listen to scientists" but will we accept the absolute fact that we as a nation are not some kind of all powerful Oz and require health and human services as well as positive foreign relations with the rest of the world. And that diplomats and ambassadors are not some kind of black cloaked villains tying us to railroad tracks, alligators don't live in the sewers and, sure, someone once got their pocket picked when they went to town but that doesn't mean you burn the place down.
21
Ginsberg's theorem in thermodynamics:
we are in a game.
we can not win.
we can not even break even.
we can not get out of the game.
I.e., viruses, almost like entropy, can not be beaten, not by us. There is no “fighting” it, not in this article's sense. Might as well stop the panic and fear—it will run its course the human population, as many had throughout biological history, and subside. The most humane thing we can do is isolate and treat the infected. Lockdowns and quarantines reflect human fear of other humans, not effective against the virus.
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It’s deeply disturbing that NY State is not getting the testing kits when they have so many cases. It troubles me that this is about politics instead of about saving lives.
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Other countries seem to have plenty -- at least all they need. Maybe NY should look into buying in another country. I believe Hawaii is buying from Japan.
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The virus is spreading and Trump needs to address the Nation on prime time TV to calm nerves. Will he do so? I think not because Wall Street and his precious economy will take an even bigger hit. It's all about him...plain and simple.
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@A.A.F. And most of us will not trust what he says. I want to hear from the professionals--public health health experts, epidemiologists, infectious disease doctors.
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@A.A.F.
Why would anyone credit a word of what Trump says?
I believe the total of US cases stood at 15 when Trump said they would be going down. Now we’re over 500.
I’ve been remiss in referring to Trump as a carnival barker. He’s far less informed and far more dishonest.
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@A.A.F. The most effective measure would be to quarantine Trump on the golf course at Mar-a-Lago until January 21st 2021. The less I see and hear from him, the calmer my nerves are.
It would be great if WHO calls this for what it is. A pandemic. Thanks to the explosion that will rise from the greatest country in the world...
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@Marc Peloquin
The problem is that, when a pandemic is declared, Trump (and others) might stop the community testing, saying that "it is everywhere". Often, the WHO stops counting after the pandemic declaration.
8
The USA needs to stop all unnecessary travel for one month. Stop all air and road travel. Only allow transit for products, but ban everything else for one month. This type of “ shut-it-down” approach will halt the virus (as much as we can) and allow us to get supplies, better information, and also allow the US the “really” assess what is going on. A month goes by fast—this is the best fix of this current situation. Let’s see if leadership takes this smart approach.
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@JG
Our people will starve to death in a month. Being as we're the only developed nation without paid leave time.
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@JG
That only works if you have universal healthcare and a robust social safety net to pay for all that time off work.
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@JG We have no leadership, only Trump deplorables worried about hurting Trump's feelings.
11
While the Federal Government is totally paralyzed, lest his majesty the Emperor with a "Natural Ability" for virus "stuff" throw a temper tantrum, not much better can be said of the governors and local health officials...
Here in MA, for example, our authorities tell us that the risk of the virus is low because all who come from Italy are interviewed and asked to self-quarantine. No word of course, on the community contagions in NY, NH, Seattle and California because, I guess, those Americans do not travel to Massachusetts and their contagions have the courtesy, I suppose, of not infecting anybody in the Bay State.
However be certain that the interest of business will be respected. Under no circumstance should we talk about cancelling the Marathon (the horror!) or deal with overcrowded and unsanitary subways and trains, a staple of Massachusetts... nor asking state agencies and large employers to have office workers work remotely if they can...
All is low risk here, go on spend your money as ignorance is bliss! That is the message we hear.
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@Yoandel And here in Hawaii, we have a corona virus person, who traveled via the SF cruise ship to all the islands. Went to Mexico and flew home to Honolulu. Our authorities are saying he had no significant contact so all is fine and he’s on the mend. What!! The man had to make at least two flights to get from Mexico to Hawaii, entered through Honolulu Airport, had to get home etc. And we are to believe he had no significant contact with anyone. Plus all his time in Hawaii ports. We have not been given any information. What airlines did he fly? What did he do during shore time in Hawaiian ports. Did he stay on the ship? Hope so. In the meantime, wash hands and be careful. And what about all the other cruisers who now have corona virus. On a ship of over 3,000 people, only 48 got tested. This virus has a very long life on surfaces. We shall certainly find out within weeks.
19
Trump is in charge; not Dr Fauci . Trump has surrounded himself with yes men. 75,000 tests ; but who gets tested and when? What are the plans for this week? Plans for the month? Long term plans? We need a strong leader who can take advice from the experts; a leader we can trust; a leader who stands above emotion. Speaker Pelosi is that kind of leader.Biden or Sanders is that kind of leader. Trump is not a leader;he is the Beta who nips at the Alpha . Ray Sipe
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@Ray Sipe
When I was in northern California over the weekend of February 28th, I was told by 2 healthcare workers that they had positive cases in their facility. But the order had come down from federal Health and Human Services that they could not tell the media - all communications had to be "coordinated" through HHS.
How is this any different than what China did?
195
I would like to inform you that the US is bathing in corona virus. Very simple. Now the government cannot mitigate it. What is step two ? Shut downs and fast.
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@J Anders
You're right. My daughter told me a couple of weeks ago of a case in her hospital in Northern California and said there were other hospitals in the area with patients. She told me not to tell anyone and naturally I posted it here the next day. People need to know what's being kept from them.
42
I live in Oregon. In the past 3 weeks, I went to Seattle twice, northern California once and Vancouver, BC.
Two weeks ago I came down with what felt like the flu - cough, fever, dizziness, severe fatigue, etc.
I called my doctor on March 2nd and was sent to the express care clinic, where I was told they were so full they were only taking appointments. I made one and went back the next day, where I was sent for a flu test and chest x-ray.
The flu test was negative, but the chest x-ray got me a diagnosis of "acute bronchitis". Since then, I have been staying home, calling everyone I can think of to see about getting a coronavirus test. Friday, March 6th I was told that the few tests that are available have to be used for people who are hospitalized or who have had close contact with a "lab-confirmed individual".
How in heck can ANYONE end up as a lab-confirmed individual if there are no tests? I am still sick, and no one seems to want to know whether I have COVID-19 or not.
322
I’m sorry you’re not able to be tested.
25
@J Anders
I have a brother living in Bend. He's 63, obese and has a pacemaker. I spoke with him earlier and he told me he was finally getting over what he thought was the flu. This is the second time this season.
I asked what he did about it and he said he stayed home and rested for a few days.
Chill out. Follow the guidelines and don't panic. You don't have a choice.
9
@J Anders
Even if you don’t have Covid-19, you might still be dangerously sick. In late December, I was (mis)diagnosed with acute bronchitis and treated. After three days of continuing fever and cough, then increasing shortness of breath with walking the dog, I went to the ER with what I strongly suspected was pneumonia. It was bacterial pneumonia, with borderline sepsis. Had I waited another 12-24 hours, I would have been in real trouble. As it was, IV antibiotics were very effective.
The kicker is the first flu swab, done in the ER, came back negative. The second, done after I was admitted, came back positive for Influenza B
Sometimes, you have to be your own strongest advocate. I’m in my mid-sixties, overweight, but with no underlying conditions. So, be careful, please.
32
So letting millions of Americans go without health coverage, work in jobs where they can't save $400, decimating the public health care system and firing all the scientists can make bad things happen?
Who knew?
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