If the NYTimes is going to publish the equivalent of a daily body count, PLEASE help readers put this health issue in perspective by printing daily comparisons with the number of people who have been made sick and died from the flue. More than 60,000 people die from the flue each year throughout the country. While this virus is new, treatments do exist. Getting a flue shot I believe is one of them. This is not Ebola, Smallpox, or the plague. So please, do not contribute to the panic by over reporting on the Coronavirus without also offering a balanced comparison of the ill and death rate nationally with other common illnesses.
14
@Emily the problem is flu hospitalization is 0.2% and this disease is 20%.. soon no medical facilities left.. also exponential hidden community spread been happening for weeks with 2 week incubation period..almost no testing unlike flu... lack of supplies for health care providers .. and high likely good they themselves will get sick. China saw 8% fatality rate in these kinds of uncontrolled situation which is why they panicked. With our system we seem to be on target to do much worse.
37
@Emily Death rate from the flu is about .5% or 1 in 200. Death rate from coronavirus seems to be about 2+%, more than 1 in 50. This is four times worse, and even more if you're old. It also appears to be highly contagious, much more than ebola.
P.S. - I get a flu shot every year.
6
@Emily Getting a flu shot is NOT a treatment. There is no cure for this. Comparisons are not only pointless, but useless, as this virus is still relatively new. Given that the nursing home in Washington saw people go from asymptomatic to dead in a day, I appreciate the reporting. There's no reason to panic, but this is reason to be on guard.
17
After listening to the special speech this evening I’m convinced that any organized system is not functioning. Quite a bit of the information was false, unless they were unaware of what is really taking place. I spent the day going from one medical facility to another to be tested and cleared for the benefit of family with health issues, and the story kept changing. NJ has a site to call and they tell you to stay at home for 14 days. Where are all the tests that were supposed to be available? The labs and doctors now do not want any individual with any symptom, you are to go to the er. The hospitals have enough going on. If someone is tested and confirmed there is no candid information shared of places the individual may have been. Without tests and open communication of known cases what is the sense in all the verbiage?
6
What is national policy?
Actually, there is none.
For "clarification", you might want to read, "It Took Me 3 E.R. Visits to Get a Coronavirus Test in New York."
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/09/opinion/coronavirus-testing-new-york.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
4
If I had an elderly person I loved in a nursing home, I would remove them immediately so that she/he and I together, not nursing home staff, nor
the government, could dictate where and how they would receive health care.
4
I’m wondering how cities are handling the prevention of corona virus in homeless communities. These folks don’t have easy access to soap and water, many have chronic health problems and a big percentage fall into the senior category. In every major city in this country there are people living on the streets who are vulnerable. Maybe people don’t care but corona virus spreads to the housed as well.
7
"Most of the more than 1,000 crew members will remain onboard the cruise ship, which will leave the San Francisco Bay within about three days, Mr. Newsom said.'
Nooooooo! Don't those people deserve the respect and care everyone else does? How will they limit spread among the crew? Where will they disembark?
This is wrong.
11
@- California should only be willing to receive passengers if everyone- including crew- receive appropriate quarantine and treatment.
3
Just lock things down!
Why am I getting the impression that preserving the economy is more important than preserving human life?
14
25th Amendment. The 25th Amendment, proposed by Congress and ratified by the states in the aftermath of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, provides the procedures for replacing the president or vice president in the event of death, removal, resignation, or incapacitation.
8
Fauci seems to want to skip testing and skip precautions and go directly to "mitigation."
Mitigation amounts to throwing one's hands up in the air like you just don't care.
I trust Fauci about as much as I trust Trump.
Fauci did a famously bad job protecting people with AIDS during the AIDS crisis. I am surprised people have such faulty memories on this bit of history.
5
Be careful what you wish for.
Northern Italy ordered a quarantine and people got wind of it and jumped any means of transportation to avoid the lockdown.
People in the US will attempt to drive away from whatever lockdown to face the National Guard on interstates sending people back.
The movie Contagion is a good watch to prepare yourselves.
1
@Dotty
“Drive away”... to where? And why bother? Where do those fleeing a lockdown intend to live, and for how long, and with what resources. They’re just going to abandon their homes indefinitely?
It’s doable for the ultra-wealthy, who own multiple properties and can manage their finances remotely or through their banks and accountants. But for the average citizen, leaving home to escape a regional quarantine makes no sense whatsoever.
4
We should not assume everyone knows what "social distancing" means or entails. More could be written (and written again) about concrete steps that everyone can take in their everyday lives to protect themselves and others. Step 1, which goes a long way, is to wash hands frequently and avoid at all costs shaking hands with someone. Cultures where greetings involve kissing a cheek (or two) should give that practice a break. Try instead an elbow bump. It just might catch on as a new normal greeting.
6
Many will not because they take their cues from the leadership at the top, who was probably exposed recently in a crowded venue and shook hands with others... who had shaken hands with others who shook hands, etc. It’s stable geniuses all the way down.
2
It's very frustrating not knowing whom to believe. Clearly, not Trump, but I would like to trust the CDC. Can I? I simply don't know.
Because I have asthma, I am more-or-less self-quarantining by staying home except to purchase groceries and other necessities. There are no known cases in my immediate area, but I know one person who may have been exposed at AIPAC last week and another who is from an area where there are some infected people.
Each person needs to consider his or her own vulnerability and act accordingly. Most don't need to stay home; they just need to take normal precautions such as washing hands often. Most of all, no one needs to panic and hoard supplies or food. When we are reasonable, there will be enough to go around.
14
My fellow Americans... my fellow Bay Area humans:
Our job right now is to follow the advice of scientists.
Nothing less.
Nothing more.
Follow their advice with humility... with compassion... with courage.
Not sure what scientists’ advice is? Check. It takes a finger tap or two.
Do not speculate. Do not try to restate what non-scientists have said. Do not summarize as best you can.
Humility. Compassion. Courage.
7
The photo of the cruise ship anchored alone gives the “all at sea” idiom a whole new context. This is so sad. As is the elderly care center in Washington state. People deserve way more from the people running this country.
8
It take taxes which a large swath of Americans don’t want to pay to be used on people unlike themselves.
In Italy, where I am right now, tests are free and performed on anyone with Symptoms. No one enters an ER or a hospital. Special rooms, tents, trailers are set up right outside the hospital. This country is hardly hit, being a country with a lot of seniors. Extreme measures have been adopted and hopefully they will be sufficient.
Observing the situation of the US from the outside, I have a strong feeling that things are much worse than they appear. the madness shown by the government won’t help. On the contrary. I applaud Dr Fauci who, out of sense of responsibility, is willing to work with these mobsters gone nuts.
17
In SW Washington. Called the local county health department over the weekend about getting an ill relative tested for Covid-19. Was told to tell them to self-isolate and just stay home for up to 72 hours after symptoms subside. No reason to get tested, despite having C-viruse symptoms. Hmmmmmm. If this is being repeated many many times over this region, we probably have a vaster problem than the "official" numbers. Big questions: where are the touted 1.5 million test kits going? and, if COngress is throwing 8.3 Billion at this problem, where is THAT money going? Who is going to get the graft vaccuums going to hoover up the bucks?
There is no way we can trust the G on this one.
9
Our country's level of unfounded panic is more troubling than the threat of this so-called pandemic. Where is all this panic every flu season--the beginning of a season which, according to cdc figures, has resulted in 12-61k deaths annually, since 2010.
Rather than put this is any context, the media, like great lakes meteorologists, are making the most dire forecasts, when nothing anywhere supports these predictions. Yes, a small number of a subset of population is vulnerable, however, the mortality rate of those infected creeps closer and closer to 1% as new information becomes available.
The economic devastation and aftermath of our treatment of this illness--illness--is going to bring a lot more suffering to a lot more people than the illness itself.
2
In a Pavlovian response requiring no actual reasoning on his part, Trump dissociates himself from any hint of responsibility for even slightly inconveniencing himself or his base, no matter the severity of the threat being mitigated.
It might make sense for instance to create voluntary quarantine centers with free medical care with free follow up at National Guard armories for those testing positive for the virus. Included would be free meals and some modicum of ways to get through 14 days in one place.
Because it would represent the government participating in a disruption in peoples' lives [socialism?], Trump could never tolerate or endorse such measures, no matter how sensible for the greater good.
3
Hope Americans learn from this experience -that basic public healthcare is the minimum for a civilised economy.
20
We have wondered in the past three years how Trump might really mess up during a big crisis and the scenario was usually him creating a war. Well, prediction is tricky. This virus is the scenario, and Trump has made it much harder to deal with it. He slashed the CDC budget, appointed yes people everywhere, fired real talent in government, and he muddies waters which need to be as clear as possible, by being a blabbering idiot. I never thought I'd be totally into Pence taking over, but he should, and Trump needs to be sent to Maralago to "rest," for health reasons, indefinitely.
10
No test kits? No wonder everybody in the U.S. loves their health insurance so darn much.
8
Call your state assemblymember and Senator. Tell them you want the state government to immediately purchase and/or manufacture test kits, to be given to the counties. Tell them they need to ignore the CDC, other than for requirements on the kits. Actually, I’d trust the WHO more because some of the first CDC tests didn’t work....Tell whoever answers the phone you require a response to your call.
6
@On the coast
FDA rules are the actual gate here. Under FDA rules, only a CDC designed and sourced test kit can be used in the US... unless the FDA waves it's own rules.
FDA is just a culpable as the CDC on this, and the white house is doing nothing, even today, to address and resolve this. The white house is "slow walking" every single action or step to mitigate COVID-19
9
I hate to not be Chicken Little, but the medical facts are, thankfully, not matching up to the media frenzy. This article notes how few, not how many, passengers and crew on the cruise ship are symptomatic. Almost all the Washington fatalities were in debilitated nursing home patients. According to a comment I read today from our 401k advisor, the WHO has stated that the severity of the illnesses began decreasing on February 22, and the growth of new cases worldwide has decreased over the last week. It seems that prudent measures such as social distancing, and thorough cleaning of surfaces such as in restaurants and health care facilities may well address most aspects of the spread.
But alarmingly little of this is reported. Five hundred or even a thousand cases, and a few dozen deaths of people with compromised health status should not be news. It is not news when this happens in every flu season in every town worldwide. I am not suggesting the media ignore the story, but some balance is in order, rather than stoking hysteria, making it all about Trump, and causing personal and economic damage for no good reason.
3
@Paul Italy had less than 500 cases on Feb 22. They now have over 7,300, a relatively short time later, and many in serious condition and many dead. Their medical system is overwhelmed. Social distancing helps but a major problem is that it takes up to 21 days to show symptoms. Think of how many people could get exposed.
17
@Paul
Italy alone, though South Korea is an equally valid reference example, demonstrates how quickly cases can and will rise in communities from this virus.
The US has sufficient infections confirmed now (and who knows how many unconfirmed infections are in the community going stealth through the community) to result in rapid outbreak and growth of this virus in the US.
If you are not concerned with the data, honestly then it is a waste of time reading or discussing your comments.
COVID-19 is more contagious than H1N1 2009/10 and much more fatal. So using the 2009/10 H1N1 pandemic as a reference case, and adding the much higher mortality rates into the equation... we as a nation, when it is all over, will look back and see the worst pandemic and fatality rates in the US since 1918 pandemic.
H1N1 2009/10 infected ~ 60 million Americans. It too was novel with no community immunity and no vaccine. It's infection rate was ~2 VS CIVID-19s rate of 2.5, and it's mortality rate was 0.03% vs COVID-19s mortality rate staying pretty consistent at 3%. In other words, 100 times more fatalities, with particular danger to older Americans, and Americans with underlying health conditions.
This is a true nightmare in the making..... and by only looking at the early front end of the infection rates in the US is a huge mistake on your part.
14
When we come out of this Trump tailspin, I want to take the media to the woodshed. I didn't see/hear one news report from cruise passengers at Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, NY/NJ, Baltimore, New Orleans, Galveston. All those ports had people either getting on board or not. Yet no news report. Why? Because the Trump Emperor has cowed you in the Fourth Estate into believing you are to blame for this contagion, when all you do is report the facts.
To borrow from one major newspaper's slogan, our democracy will die in darkness. And quite possibly many more Amerians as well because we aren't being told the truth.
And, yes, there are so many news stories that aren't being covered locally because of the death of the newspaper industry. Local coverage is now reduced to page clicks in this time when we need some honest reporting about what our schools are doing, our electeds behind the scenes, employers and our neighbors.
Dear Fourth Estate, meet me at the woodshed if you let Trump bully you into not doing your First Amendment job.
12
This is just the excuse for Trump to declare martial law and then ICE can be used more effectively and the wall will be built overnight. He can act like the true dictator he aspires to be.
3
@Barry
And cancel the fall elections as well.. and become dictator for life.
2
The public is ill served when it is bombarded by different, and at times conflicting, COVID-19 information from local governments. Late last week the city I live in, Pleasant Hill, CA, said that people over age 50 should avoid "mass events". San Francisco was even more blunt, saying that people over age 60 should simply "stay home". Yes, just point blank stay home. That's crazy. Moreover, the CDC had issued neither of these recommendations.
Issuing broad brush recommendations with no supporting medical evidence only fuels hysteria about this virus. No wonder people are freaking out and are buying entire pallets of toilet paper, paper towels, and bottled water from Costco.
3
@Mary Rae Fouts
Actually, CDC has stated almost exactly the same guidance... only difference is they say "should".
Tell you what Mary.. just ignore the guidance and go about your daily routine.. but please... when you come down with the virus and complications forcing you into an overloaded healthcare response system.... OWN YOUR CHOICE. Just know that your callousness may have cost some other Americans their lives through contact infection by people like yourself.
7
@Chuck - "Should"? I don't know what CDC guidance page you are referring to, but the CDC Coronavirus website page and links did not say that guidance last week, nor does it say it now.
The CDC recommends things such as "everyday precautions" , but no where on its website does not CDC state that people over age 60 "should" stay home, or that people over age 50 "should" avoid "mass events".
Advocating unsupported advice only adds to the hysteria and false information about this virus. Of which most cases are mild, and most people who have come down with the virus - worldwide - have already recovered.
@Mary Rae Fouts Staying home is crazy now? Are people harmed by spending time in their homes, or avoiding mass events? Not knowing whether or not the government will force you into quarantine, is it somehow stupid to ensure that you have toilet paper? I don't understand your hysteria.
It's not hard to see why President Trump feels that the media are causing the collapse in stock prices given that an article about U.S. health experts makes no mention of President Trump's opinion, notably that the corona virus is no worse than the flu. As the dully elected expert-in-chief, he should have the first and last word. Freedom!!!
2
You’re kidding, right? Not only should health and medical experts have the last word, not only is Trump not an expert, but he’s an ignorant, lying, self-centered dolt.
8
@Keitr
1) Trump is always playing the victim card where the press is concerned.
2) This virus has a much higher mortality rate than seasonal flu... no matter what Trump may claim otherwise.
3) Trump has no influence with the virus... the virus is going to do what it does.. regardless of anything Trump says, wishes, or wants.
4
@Cheryl
Yes, but I take it you didn't see the news clip where Trump said doctors told him he has a natural ability for understanding infectious diseases?
5
It doesn't matter how many restrictions the Health Experts put out, trump's base doesn't believe there is problem because he has told them the democrats are responsible. Just go to work, school, school dances, ball games, trump "praise & worship" rallies. Yep just keep ignoring the truth & get sick along with the other Americans who believe there is a problem. Just stay away from ME!!!
4
Test Kits for the virus are in “short supply”.
Meaning it would be safe to assume, given the nature of contagion, that there are substantially more cases than have been reported; will be much more before it runs its course.
As a result the medical science planning and preparation for the Next One will include guesstimates, conjecture and “hunches” regarding COVID 19’s true impact and mutation. We can all agree that’s Inadequate..
Proof that a nation NEEDS its Elites.
6
Just think back to the hurricane hitting Georgia controversy, when the heads of NOAA were chastised for rebuking Trump after he disseminated false information. After this experience, leaders of government agencies are cautious about doing anything that will raise the president’s ire. They also realize the president will not support them in their decisions and more likely use them as fall guys as he looks for someone to blame.
People outside of government know this scenario is happening and the Stock Market is responding with a lack of confidence with the current occupant of the White House. Unless Trump changes his leadership style, which is unlikely, the ability of professionals to mitigate the impact of the novel coronavirus is going to continue to be haphazard.
9
@Trail Runner
He doesn't believe in climate change, so he reduces EPA rules to rubble. He doesn't believe in vaccinations, or the truth, or regard for humanity. What did we do to deserve this.
3
@Concerned Veteran We allowed professionals to use Trump as an excuse for not standing up for what's right.
1
"containment" has a cost as well and Americans should be asking themselves, "what is cost of closing schools, government, work, etc." that leads to mass job loss, recession, and depression versus accepting that the flu-corona virus is here to stay and to mitigate the seasonal flu impact with reasonable measures that still allow people to work. How many weeks can you sit at home, unemployed while your bills pile up?
3
@Hero's Journey
Correct. In the end, the panic will have killed more people indirectly than the virus does directly.
Let's get real and stop this panicking.
50 million people in CA. Only 788 people in CA have been tested and 114 confirmed positive as of Sunday! 14% of those tested came back positive. As we do more testing, we will see more cases. Dr. Fauci said we should be doing “millions and millions” of tests. CDC cannot even give us a number of tests done. Not everyone connected with Life Center nursing home in WA have gotten tests! 16 residents have died positive, 70 employees are symptomatic and not at work. CDC had very restrictive rules on testing until Feb. 28 (China returnees + immediate contacts). There still are not enough tests! This is Trump’s Katrina x 100. America needs the facts from scientists, not political spin from politicians.
13
@Francis Lu If only 788 people have been tested in CA, that means only 788 people presented themselves to medical professionals and those medical professionals decided they needed a test. The CDC cannot give you the number of tests because it does very little testing... doctors have it done in their labs and in hospital labs and in local public health labs
2
It should be perfectly clear to all that the many communicable viruses and diseases make it imperative that the best of health care for all is a human right.
Anyone without the money to see a doctor can be infected with coronavirus and not know it. That person could be a hardworking janitor in a busy shopping mall thinking he or she has a common cold, spreading the disease without knowing it.
Clearly the only way to ensure that doesn't happen is to have the best health care for all as a human right, so that nobody need avoid seeing a doctor when they are unwell.
8
It is really hard to know what kind of threat this poses. I've heard many people say that it is nothing but a cold virus and most people should be just fine, but then I hear anecdotes from people like the spokesman for the WA nursing home who detail how resident went from having no symptoms to death in just a few hours. I've never heard of a common cold doing that. Where can we go to find good information about the actual risks posed by this new virus?
1
Why are there not more test kits?
Regulations, that's why. There are strict regulations imposed by the FDA on what commercial tests are approved.
Same for vaccines. Vaccine candidates are already there waiting to be deployed, but to get them into humans requires an elaborate bureaucratic dance around red tape. So none will be ready before next year.
Face it, we are all going to die, but we will do so knowing that we have followed all federal regulations to the letter. And that should give us comfort....
Seriously, in 3 months we will all be looking back on this and shake our heads how all this spiraled to completely and irrationally out of proportion.
2
@Captain Nemo
Fast deployment of faulty test kits won't help anyone. The CDC did send out a batch of useless test kits fast last month only to realize they weren't functional and results were misleading. But the CDC did waste times to ensure they had quality kits, which usually is not as time consuming as finding vaccines.
There are scientific reasons behind regulations, particularly for diagnostic tools and medicines. Vaccine development can never happen in days, which has to undergo rigorous human clinical trials to make sure so-called candidates are truly effective and in the meantime won't kill anyone. All take time. For short term, use common sense to fend yourself.
1
@Captain Nemo
Well, captain, the FDA is a regulatory body we need to ensure the test kits work properly. What good is it to send test kits out that do not work? False positive and false negative results for kits that do not do what they are supposed to do would be a tragedy bigger than we can imagine. Would you trust a snake oil sales company to hurry up and send you a bottle of special oil that could detect this noval virus out in our communities? That would help no one.
4
OMW! Using the virus to spread the long-discredited, rightwing, libertarian deregulation philosophy. That's horrible!
Suggesting that scientific confirmation of the tests and experimental testing of vaccines is simply an “elaborate bureaucratic dance around red tape” shows a glaring naïveté about how good medical interventions need to happen and reflects something akin to a fact-free, anti-science, anti-health care stance.
The last thing we need are a bunch of poor tests that produce false negatives — with people thinking they are virus-free as a result and contaminating others — or, have lots of false positives, producing terrifying trauma in those misdiagnosed!
Likewise, we want safe, effective vaccines, not wishes and hopes, or shots that have pernicious, even dangerous side effects. For that, we need to test the vaccines thoroughly, carefully, and scientifically.
Deregulation, cutbacks, and attacks on government and science are exactly what has been the situation more dire. Trump and the Republicans ignore scientists, cut funds for disease control, for the CDC, for pandemic interventions, and are muzzling their health care experts and, even worse, not following their lead.
It's time for Trump and Pence to step aside. The problem isn't regulation, but the anti-science, anti-facts, Fake News people leading the government.
6
The lack of tests available in the US is shameful. It's March 9. This thing has been building for 3 months. We've known of potential crisis since January.
Vote for someone who will prioritize health care.
27
@Mel
Any Dem candidate then. The Repubs only care about their offshore bank accounts being hidden from taxes.
@jaco No, I think they should be able to go through drive-up testing sites LIKE THEY ARE IN REASONABLE COUNTRIES.
3
Trump's efforts to keep everyone uninformed and unprepared (by withholding testing, by lying about the impacts, by falsely claiming the virus was a left-wing hoax, by falsely claiming the virus will magically go away next month, etc.), is as vile and reprehensible as it can get. Yet, Congressional Republicans continue, still to this day, to stand servilely behind Trump, enabling his further destruction of our country and its people.
More people than necessary will die from this virus due to Trump and his Republicans enablers in Congress. If ever there will be a time to "vote blue, no matter who," it will be this Nov 3.
21
Pence's new (and final, which he apparently doesn't realize yet) role as VP is to take the fall for Trump when things turn bad, which they likely will. And, knowing Trump as well as we now do, we can expect Trump to dump Pence as his VP nominee -- "because he did a really, really poor job on the virus thing" -- hoping to shift blame away from himself, and also to have a new VP candidate that Trump thinks will do more to motivate his base (especially, since Trump knows he no longer has to at all pander to religious conservatives because he now knows full well they will support him no matter what he does or doesn't do).
8
Plane and train travel INSIDE the US should be curtailed. Air travel in particular is one of the most efficient ways for a virus to spread from coast to coast, and places in between.
Or you could just take Mike Pence’s advice and pray.
9
The Peoples Republic of China supposedly has had approximately 80,000 coronavirus confirmed cases for a week now, and the numbers have been climbing ever so slowly, and haven't yet reached 81,000. Has China successfully stopped the spread of the virus? Do CDC epidemiologists actually believe these numbers? NYTimes reporters should ask CDC spokespersons these questions.
1
Picky, but such evidence of unconscious preferential thinking in this country....
"even curches" !!! how about place of worship....and why do we decide that worship is more important that school or work or all the other things people do in this country??
1
Schaaf's comments are classic for a highly PC, very ignorant, and clueless pol.
"'The fundamentals in this economy are unbelievable.' -- HHS Secretary Azar to reporters just now at the White House." Immediately the gathering panic shifted from the coronavirus to the economy.
New headline: AZAR NEXT AFTER MCMULVANEY.
1
We know from reporting that as of yesterday there were 500+ cases of COVID-19 in the US.
BUT the White House must be slow-walking reporting of cases to the WHO.
WHY do I say that? For the past 2 days, March 7 and March 8, the total cases reported (on both days!) were 213 only.
See here: https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/situation-reports
I hope the Times will keep track of this. It is nothing more, in my view, than lying to the WHO - and anyone who goes there seeking accurate counts of COVID-19.
5
@TheraP
LET ME BE CLEAR:
They reported the same number - as if there were no more (in total!) than 213. As if no new cases had shown up!
There is no excuse for this!
Trump's voters agree with Trump on his amateur approach to the virus....and everything else. Trump's position is usually that he and he alone knows better than then the experts, and that he is personally managing everything that the huge Federal Government does, despite that this is impossible from a common sense point of view. I fear Trump's voters will pay dearly for his management style, as will the rest of us, unfortunately.
11
Focus on self-quarantine of those with symptoms. People do not need to be in stores & libraries & schools if they have wet coughs and no masks. Their right of liberty stops right when they knowingly start spreading disease.
2
Sales clerks and servers do not get paid when they stay home because they are sick.
It’s a dry cough.
People aren’t spreading it knowingly. They are infectious before they are symptomatic and some are infected but don’t even have symptoms. That’s the problem.
3
SO far the only authority (figure) I believe is Fauchi. I do not believe a word from Trump or Pence (who denies in previous conversation that tobacco use can lead to lung cancer). Today Trump lies as usual saying the Market plunge is owed to OPEC (oil) and the news media. He has lied and tried to obstruct from day 1 and now it is crucial he is not allowed to continue this. But he will not be able to stop. So I am demanding that the Congress step in and demand this. I want the Republicans to stop their lock-step support and get on board to protect Americans. Immediately. I will be voting against anyone who is not pro-active in refuting Trump and taking the steps necessary, however painful to protect our country. The Market will not buck up because a demagogue demands it or lies & blames the wrong people.
6
How about tests available when needed? Should be priority #1
2
I would not worry, I am sure ALL of the private health insurers will tend to everyone's needs in America, just like they always have.
9
Google tracks should be deployed to trace the movements of known carriers and be overlayed on ones own track to reveal any intersections.
This could work through a new app.
If you did cross paths , it would be your cue to self isolate and have a test delivered to you.
2
So let me get this straight...
"Life Care Center" in Washington state is ground zero, the epicenter of the outbreak of this global pandemic.
And 16 people from this Center have died.
"Seventy of the Center’s 180 staff members were out sick, but there weren’t enough test kits yet for them, he said."
There are STILL not enough test kits for "Ground Zero" patients sickened over two weeks ago?
When will the American people demand that Trump stop lying to us?
17
@JM He cannot. That should be more than clear by now. He's simply a pathological liar, making him unfit for that position.
This would appear to be the perfect time to enact 25th Amendment protections, however that would require a functional vice president and cabinet. We have neither.
1
@JM So let me get this straight. You think that nursing home in Seattle is group zero.
Maybe you did not catch the fact that 80,000 people in China had or have it (of course, that's out of 1,500,000,000 people so your odds of getting it -- given about 600 cases in the U.S. with 330,000,000 people -- are pretty low. And we imported half our cases on purpose)
@Dennis Byron Way to miss the point. Why is the Seattle nursing home, which is undeniably a hot spot of community transmission in this country, unable to test all its residents and staff? What if your grandma lived there?
But - the problem is, many people of all ages take no precautions. Don't think any of this applies to them. Some actually don't care because they think it only hits the old. Some just absolutely refuse to change a thing - business as usual. Party party party. What, Me ? "You expect me to change MY activities" ?
There is NO talking to these selfish people. They refuse to believe. To change behavior.
4
@Dheep' I think you're making a strawman to knock down. Who are these party, party, party people? Friends of yours?
1
I can't believe the problem with the scarcity of kits still, weeks into the crisis. If this egregious mishap had happened in Russia or Cuba or Venezuela or a banana republic any of our "enemy" or looked down countries, they would have been scoffed at, even "lynched," in our media (see the incompetence, see how their system fails, imagine, lacking even the means to test and diagnose people, not to speak managing tor understanding he health crisis). But in the wealthiest, most chaotic, country in the world, this scarcity is tolerated.
Btw, articles like this and the press need to do a better job of explaining terms and jargon like "social distancing." Be specific about what practices it refers to and do not use abstract terms.
8
The USA is more akin to the third world, not the first world
1
So the Republicans in power in our nation’s capital, through their conservative approach, have very nicely taken our public health abilities back to 1950, when the polio virus and other contagious, infectious diseases ran rampant and unchecked until preventative vaccines stopped them in their tracks. But by cutting funds for the CDC and NIH, by denying scientific facts, by dragging their feet when they should have been running, by allowing a bunch of moronic politicians to deal with the Covid 19 problem rather than those trained and educated in public health intervention, and by not having adequate testing materials available, they have created a major threat to the health and prosperity of our people in addition to contributing to what amounts to a collapse of our financial markets. What a great group of folks!!! Good luck to us all.
9
@Unaffiliated
Exactly! We have corrupt anti-science politicians writing policies that undermine research in this country. And it’s all about money instead of about progress and the well-being of American citizens.
I am surprised I haven’t read about any action plans from the US government yet. Here in the UK, the government has published its official plan, which is contain, delay, research and mitigate. You can read it here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/869827/Coronavirus_action_plan_-_a_guide_to_what_you_can_expect_across_the_UK.pdf
Recently there has been a debate here on when the government will recommend ‘social distancing’ measures as part of the delay phase. I sincerely hope that they are on top of this issue, but in comparison with America, I have to say that we are doing better over here.
8
Is anyone else amazed at the number of grown men and women who are just now learning how to properly wash their hands?
14
There is no way to know what is meant by a positive test. The molecular biology involved in the current "test" is not fool proof, and there is no information on false positives and false negatives. When media reports low level infection of a dog, then you know there is a problem.
This is still more like Chicken Little yelling the sky is falling.
3
So you aren’t concerned that there are not enough tests so we can’t get accurate information. You are convinced that health care professionals don’t know nothing.
Cancel all elective surgeries immediately, the equipment will be needed for the sick from the virus.
Shut down Anaheim disneyland immediately.
4
The American voters are now feeling what happens when they elect a Phineas Taylor (P. T.) Barnum huckster with no government experience and a history of business failures, fraud, self-dealing, and corruption to head the highest federal office and to lead countless federal departments, agencies, and programs.
12
This administration has failed us miserably and will continue to fail us miserably. We must vote all GOP out. Make them a permanent minority.
Go to your polls, either vote by absentee ballot, by mail, or with gloves and masks if needs be, just vote!!
Vote them out for good!!
4
Question no one has asked. Is the White House and staff all tested already?
2
@Prant The last group I'd care about, with the obvious exception of Dr. Fauci.
Time to have everyone in New Rochelle (Westchester) stay home and be quarantined for 14 days. Lock down like Wuhan immediately. Why have COVID-19 commute to NYC?
We should act fast and swift here in NYC. Time to use your powers MayorC. So what if you offend someone. You might save a lot of lives. And save $ by making it less wide spread.
The USA should have been mobilized after the first case in China was reported by that brave doctor.
5
Dr Trump says corona virus is a hoax and numbers are "Small" and "scientists are wrong " so why "clamp down " ?
2
@weary traveller His last words may be,"...the numbers...".
We are going to have quarantines similar to China, as that's the only way to bring the numbers down, and those numbers get laid at the feet of politicians.
What we're experiencing IS the Trump plan. And it's just beginning to unfold. The goal is to stay in power and this exactly how to do it. Coming next is domestic travel restrictions.
1
This is not hard, if we do not have an administration that is utterly incompetent, populated by people who have fake degrees from Liberty University and its ilk.
There are to main targets from the Federal Government perspective: 1. Increase the supply of test kits, and 2. Direct all the resources that we have towards development of an antiviral agent. Set aside the happy talk about vaccines: we still do not have a proven vaccine for HIV. The antiviral drugs for HIV are so effective that they can meet our current needs to control this disease.
Let the states figure out how they will role out the testing kits. Rhode Island, following the example of South Korea has come up with an excellent procedure. As an antiviral becomes available, its delivery can be coupled with test results, and we can all breathe a sigh of relief, and the reassure reelection of our supreme leader.
What is so difficult about that?
19
@Democrat The crisis will pass before there is a vaccine. These outbreaks do not last for years. They come, they go, maybe they will come back when there is a vaccine...Who knows...certainly not trump.
3
@Nostradamus Said So
Don't count on it.
The 1918 flu actually was fairly mild in terms of symptoms and sickness in the spring... but apparently mutated and came back with a deadly vengance in the fall of 1918. It was fall of 1918 and well into 1919 when most of the deaths occurred.
And just like the novel N1H1 of 2009 (where there also was no community immunity and no vaccine early on) and is now freely roaming the planet looking for people to infect years later.... COVID-19 will follow a similar method and pathway through human society.
4
Tens-of-millions of people can't stay home, can't work from home, have no healthcare. childcare and no sick leave. If they don't work, they can't eat or pay their bills. Short of incarcerating everyone (and who would you get to work in these jails?) this "self-containment" is completely irrational because it already is not working and can't work. What's needed is massive, free healthcare coverage for everyone in every community—including distribution of food and a total moratorium on evictions and debt repayment for the duration of the epidemic—with no accumulated debt to be repaid. And, most of all, if this is really a deadly epidemic, all our resources—worldwide—should be devoted to finding a cure and vaccinations against it, instead of spending trillions of dollars on war and weapons of mass destruction. The government handling of this whole thing is irrational, ineffective and suspicious. We're not being told the truth because none of it makes any sense at all!
88
@Bonnie Weinstein Very well-said. Health care should be a human right so that every person can see a doctor soon as they feel sick. It's the only way to contain spread of viruses that makes sense. Contrary there are still millions who cannot see a doctor without incurring expenses they cannot afford. Only Bernie Sanders has the right policy to ensure health care is a right.
9
@Bonnie Weinstein
Great commentary! We weren’t prepared for the Coronavirus outbreak. What’s more, the Trump administration is more concerned with messaging than with telling the truth.
Trump operates through lies, deception, and intimidation. The Coronavirus is immune to his antics.
8
@Lawrence Chanin Sanders-Warren now. Biden sure isn't going to throw himself into protecting us from the institutions that are trying so hard to get him the nomination.
6
This is when the country needs a real president. Trump continues lie and pump himself up- his screed at CDC was almost unbelievable- but considering how he has hamstrung medical research in the country I guess all pepople need do is ask him as he thinks he knows everything about medicine.
The head of the "task force" is a person who does not accept science in general and refuses to admit that viruses and bacteria are part of the evolutionary chain. His willful ignorance was largely responsible for the death of more than 200 people in Indiana who had aids.
63
@Winewithachef ' all people need do is ask him as he thinks he knows everything about medicine."
He's already told us he amazed all "the doctors", and he "has a natural ability". No sense wasting any time giving him another opportunity to lie about his "natural abilities".
2
It’s good to be cautious, but the world is over-reacting, almost panicking, about this virus. Be careful, wash your hands, but live your life. If you have a mutual stock fund for your children (who have a decade to recover) now is a good time to send a check. Stocks are cheap.
8
Scientists don’t know nothing!
I'm in the New Rochelle area and am pretty sure I had the virus this week. It was four days of some fever (about 101), body aches, cough, congestion and headaches.
I looked on the CDC website and it said to call the doctor if you know you've been exposed to an infected person or if you've traveled abroad. But we seem past that point in this area. It's everywhere.
Then I called my doctor, they said to only come in if I'd normally come in. I wouldn't normally come in for this. I called back a day later and they'd changed the policy. Do not come in. If you have a severe temp or shortness of breath, go to the ER.
Well, I didn't have a severe temp or shortness of breath so I did not go to the ER. (Nor did I have any desire to go)
But it's left me not knowing if I'm positive and if I'm contagious. And many local friends and family are in the same boat. How long do we quarantine for and do we quarantine without a test? I'm currently at home and feeling okay.
My guess is the reported numbers are about 1/4 of the actual cases.
8
@Amy
Might you have had the flu? Of course, no one will ever know, since the Trump administration has purposefully been withholding testing.
1
@Amy:
You say you had the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus already. You cite symptoms, which mimic symptoms of seasonal influenza (the flu). You have been tested for neither, yet you are "certain" that you have/had COVID-19. This is pure speculation.
Are you aware that in this 2019-2020 season, we have already had 34 MILLION cases if influenza infections. Perhaps the number of SARS-CoV-2 infections may be in the tens of thousands. It is far more likely you were affected by the flu -- even if you received a vaccine -- or another viral infection.
If you continue to speculate that you have COVID-19, please self-quarantine yourself. That means NO contact with any person or animal, for a minimum of 2 weeks. This is what is required by ordinary people to contain any outbreak, especially influenza.
2
@Incredulous of 45 Where did I say I was "certain?" New Rochelle is the epicenter of the NYS outbreak. We have 100 confirmed cases here and several thousand people quarantined.
Several neighbors and nearby family all in bed with similar flu-like symptoms. And I had gotten the flu shot. None of us have been able to get tested.
It's hardly a stretch to think it might be coronavirus.
6
The Administration's massive Covid-19 failures will cost Trump and reelection, and if we're lucky, it might cost them the Senate as well.
Massive pandemic hits US and causes unknown number of deaths, will cost small businesses hundred of billions in lost revenue, and the potential for global recession. This is all AOK for the Republicans. They have not yet reached the bottom, but very close.
4
@MrDeepState We are not even close to the bottom. There is no bottom for the GOP, they've shown it time and time again.
1
@jaco I don't hope it, but I fear bungles response from Administration is practically guaranteeing it.
We should not be surprised that stricter measures will be required to limit the damage inflicted on the nation by the coronavirus. However, thinking citizens of the United States should be incensed by the fact that the Trump administration failed to make preparations on how to deal with the pandemic once it arrived on our shores.
Preparations were not made, although the disease ravaged China and other nations for months before the first cases were reported in the U.S. The nation would have been much better prepared had Trump not destroyed the infrastructure already in place to address issues associated with pandemics.
By all means, Trump should not be allowed to appear on national television to say anything about the government response to dealing with the virus. He appears to be unstable, and increasingly irritated with events he cannot control. The media should stop broadcasting his comments and focus on Pence as the spokesperson.
11
"Dont go to crowded places." Well, I guess that lets out every Walmart parking lot in the country right now.
"Test kits are available to everyone." No, they're not.
"Phone the hospital to let them know you're coming." Who should I call? What hotline number was that again?
"Don't take the bus, a cab, or uber to the hospital. Fine, I'll walk across the city in gloves and hat and promise not to hold onto to a lamppost for support. If I die along the way, I promise to curl up into a little ball without making any noise or disturbing anyone.
Why do I get the sense that there aren't answers to the most common questions out there?
164
@raven55
You've got the same sense we all have. We're in uncharted territory and there are no easy solutions. The best we can do is be aware of our surroundings, don't panic, and take simple precautions like not touching our faces when at the store or out in public. Wash your hands thoroughly and often.
11
@raven5: Beautiful! You said it all.
10
@Mark McIntyre
But we are not in uncharted territory. We HAD the pandemic team in place at the CDC until July 2018 when trump, the stable genius, decided to fire the whole team. Scientists should be in charge of this. Not trump and pence who know absolutely nothing about pandemic response teams. But, whoa, yeah, they saved We the People loads of money when they fired the pandemic response teams, huh?
13
Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, our states and cities are taking up the mantel and going forward with doing what must be done to protect their citizens in this time of crisis and need.
As of late, even those who are critical of Mayor De Blasio, are praising his efforts in taking care of NYC and its' denizens. He is thorough and information is at the ready. The same is true other parts of the country on the state and city levels.
To hear the leader of our country call the governor of beleaguered state of Washington, a snake, is so very sad and deplorable. It does nothing to bring hope to the rest of the nation that help is on the way from the federal government if he or she is not in favor with those in power.
The bottom line is if this virus is on the move as quickly as the experts think, the valiant efforts of our states and cities will not be enough to combat what is happening. We need the help, support and transparency in terms of what is happening from our federal government.
17
The level of confusion, incompetence, and sheer stupidity being exhibited across the globe in response to the coronavirus is absolutely breathtaking. You’d think humanity had never dealt with a pandemic before, so utterly ill-prepared and clueless we collectively are...
Strict containment measures should have been globally implemented at the beginning of January! Instead, exposed individuals have been traveling from country to country via all means of transportation, spreading the virus. And they’re still on the move!
Here’s an idea...Stay in your own countries where your local health authorities can organize a proper response. In other words, STOP traveling for the foreseeable future!
68
@Susanna -- and locally, stop events. Other US cities have cancelled events, but Dallas, Texas, is determined to have the St.Patrick's Parade, scheduled for March 14, 2020, to go on. This is unconscionable. Sheer stupidity from City Hall and its Mayor. Or greed. Or both.
https://www.dallastell.com/?p=155
7
Point well made Susanna. And I would add to that plane and train travel inside the US. Stay home for now.
9
@Susanna Man in St. Louis who was directly exposed to virus by his older daughter, took his younger daughter to a school dance because he "wasn't feeling sick." Exponentially how many cases will that lead to?
11
This sense of unpreparedness and the low-level chaos it's engendering as to the comprehensive information and planning needed from the federal government has a strong whiff of trying to protect profits.
When responsive quarantine orders are made at the federal level, people aren't spending anywhere the amounts of money they would be under normal circumstances--even as things stand now, Wall St., has made it abundantly clear they're taking their profits now and running away to wait out the crisis.
Could it be that Trump's thinking of "do nothing" shows his willingness to sacrifice a few hundred-thousand lives in order to try to keep the economy of this country less drastically affected as long as possible by misinformation, and not imposing restrictions on travel, large gatherings and inter-city/town movement?
The kinds of major restrictions this country has needed for the past month could well impact the ability of this virus to proliferate further. As it is, we don't have a clear message of taking charge from the Trump administration.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if the sources of active governmental response so sorely needed right now weren't intentionally being held back from being disseminated or put into operation because of Trump's obsession with his looking to be good for the economy.
13
@Cate
Do you recall what measures were taken to contain the H1N1 virus in 2009-10? 60,000,000 U.S. infections and nearly 13,000 deaths. If interested you would find far, far more being done today to combat COVID-19
4
@clarity007 , That's good, because H1N1 had a fatality rate of .02 percent, while covid 19 appears to have a fatality fate of 2 to 3 percent, 100 times more lethal. If you meant us to feel reassured in light of the Trump administration's incompetence, it's not working.
2
@Cate denial is bliss
1
The last paragraph in this hints at a HUGE problem. The federal government is providing very little guidance, so businesses, schools and the general public are panicking about what to do and making it up as they go along. I work at a small company (250 people), and at least 20 hours of meetings last week was spent with a rag-tag cross-functional group reading as much literature as we could to make an informed decision about travel policies, work from home, and everything else. Documents are being circulated across businesses to share their policies and action plans, but what is grossly apparent is that most business have no idea what they should really be doing, so everybody is guessing or copying each other. The lack of concrete recommendations from the government is truly disturbing.
21
@John
My workplace just instituted a mandatory telework policy after an employee tested positive over the weekend, so contacts can be traced and the facility deep-cleaned. They knew this was probably coming, and were prepared for the possibility. I am considered a high-risk individual, and will not be comfortable returning when/if it is lifted
Were these 20 hours of meetings teleconferences? If not, why not? This is exactly the kind of action that needs to be taken as widely as possible, and sooner rather than later.
Work from home is not so simple when you're a retailer with brick and mortar. Are we supposed to shut stores down? If so, which ones? Or should stores function on reduced hours? How will we pay hourly employees? Could we even afford to keep paying them with store closures? If corporate employees get to work from home, what message does that send to our retail employees in the same building who are required to show up? And on and on and on and on. Your business may be working from home, and many of them are -- but many of them aren't because to make that decision has vast people and business implications. The CDC / government / healthcare guidelines are woefully inadequate, so many businesses are really struggling here with tough decisions. Guidance like "frequently wash your hands for twenty seconds" only goes so far.
@John
Good post. My workplace is waiting until cases accumulate “in the community.” Terrible approach, because little testing is being done.
We have cases in neighboring counties, but that’s not enough to allow me to work online from home, which I do most of the week anyway. They still expect me to come in one day a week.
But I feel even more angry and scared for workers who are forced to work every day or else starve. If they get sick, who will care for them and their families?
The most readily available measure to get the Federal Government to do it duty with respect to mitigating the corona virus pandemic, is for the Cabinet to act like they were actually patriotic Americans and invoke Article 25 of the Constitution to remove a seriously disturbed President.
It is clear by now that the Vice-President, Mike Pence, has taken seriously his job of coordinating the federal response, notwithstanding the severe problems caused by the President's wild second guessing.
It is not too much to ask of the Cabinet that it honor its oath of office and provide for the general welfare, to include our endangered economy as well as public health.
13
I've followed this closely for 5 weeks. Over the last week the situation in the U.S. seems more confusing each day. All signs are that we are not prepared and are not being given accurate information. Since very few people are being tested, we should assume the number of active cases is significantly higher. I think we are all on our own (do not count on the government). Make sensible choices based on what information you can find.
19
This virus doesn't seem to be that severe for people who aren't elderly or have some immune issues. Why don't those people restrict their mobility to protect themselves rather than restricting everybody else? Do we need to second guess our reaction to this? It just seems to be a panicky mess with little guidance and information and a lot of media hype.
2
@Kim Those people won't be able to avoid all contact with younger people -- medical personnel, health care workers, nursing home aides, family members. That is why it is important to try to reduce the spread of the virus among younger, healthier people too.
15
@Kim You don't seem to get that daily people fly from place to place &country to country, so the restrictions must be enacted in the US, by a legitimate spokesperson who is willing to do what it takes, not lie to support the President's fantasy that the Markets (all he cares about) are tanking because of the press. We need someone who tells the truth now, we have lived with his lies for his entire Presidency and it must stop for our people's sake. And whatever the Scientists say is important should be the norm now. This is not Climate Change which this President has hoodwinked his supporters on, this is a worldwide health problem. No matter who it affects all must be committed to the truth.
54
So since you are not elderly, you don't care if you infect others?!
3
Memories are short and whenever this passes the formula of post event lessons learned exercises will be quickly sacrificed to the temple of political expediency. Even if something is done dark money funded lobbying will quickly deconstruct and defund just like the consumer financial protection bureau enacted after the Great Recession.
4
@AusTex Sounds like some plot to me...instead of worrying about the issue, our health. And truthful governance.
I have been amazed by the natural desire for denial. I have run through all doomsday scenarios and am ready to step up as a physician.
I know these next few months will be challenging but this is when we must come together, step up, stop pointing fingers and blame. This behavior is dividing a country that right now needs to stand together. This political derision exists on both sides. Although it seems some politicians thrive by being divisive, any cause taken up with a me versus them mentality is ultimately tribalism. We are facing a great challenge to life as we know it. Many people are going to die. Our best chance to get through this is by coming together- kindness for kindness. May we globally address this challenge together.
25
@HL We have to blame if the truth is ignored and the Leadership are to blame. Wake up now. If we are divided it is because Trump knows the old adage, DIVIDE AND CONQUER, which is his only goal. Sewing division is his forte. The only way to stop this is to stand up to it. Hiding under ones security blanket will not work. If you are afraid well sorry I pity you. I am made of firmer stuff and I want the truth, and I am sick of obfuscation from this Administration.
1
@JHM
I have moved through fear. I’m an ER MD on the front lines dealing with this. There is no security blanket for me. You manage to be rude and divisive to someone in your same political corner. How exactly is your attitude going to get people taken care of? If you are shouting vitriol to a trump supporter, you gain nothing but more hate and division (and Trump has gotten exactly what he wanted).
Besides the elderly and people having pre-existing respiratory illness, the biggest casualty of coronavirus may very well be the myth of American healthcare system and expertise. So far, there is no sign whatsoever that America is able to contain the outbreak. Many experts are having eggs all over their faces. Only hope at this point is some divine intervention.
18
So you’re suggesting “thoughts and prayers”? Yup ... it seems to work in mass shooting incidents, doesn’t it?
@S. C. Human intervention exists, and is effective when sensibly employed (and funded!).
That's reality.
1
Instead of focusing on the current political 'blame game' and hyperbole, corporations need to take the lead in having sensible and immediate policies to help prevent the spread of the virus. Businesses are perhaps the only grown-ups left in the room. For example, work from home if possible, updated sick leave policy, no price gouging, removal of any/all communal serving utensils at grocery stores, hotels, events, cruise ships, etc.
7
Trump's Pollyanna-ish tweets aren't helping. His entire attitude is one of denial, which does nothing to calm financial markets or the general public. To his credit, Mike Pence is trying to act like the adult in the room, but fighting the headwind from his juvenile boss.
There is no understating this. The world is not only facing a pandemic, but recession or worse. This is when we need a President to step up, tell the truth and work with Congress to take definitive action. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear we have one of those.
20
@Mark McIntyre We haven't since November 2016.
Given that the spread has been exponential in locations where testing is available, we likely already have 10,000 or more cases in this country.
Almost 40% of the employees of Lifecare are sick yet test kits are still not available for them.
The federal government response has been abysmal and I put the blame squarely at the feet of Trump who was not concerned until the stock market took notice and the GOP who has been busy dismantling the deep state which includes public health departments and the CDC.
32
The very front line against Coronavirus is my office. I'm a pediatrician. Virtually every child in the community with respiratory symptoms comes knocking on our door. How do we distinguish between the scores of "normal" viral illnesses and Corona without the ability to swab and test? If we suspect Flu, strep, or any of the common benign pathogens, we are able to test and get quick answers. Without Corona testing, we are blind, unable to make the critical decisions to protect our patients, our community and critically, our own staff. The South Koreans and the governor of Rhode Island have an answer that changes everything: ill patients are driven to a testing center where they are swabbed while remaining in their cars waiting for test results. Wow, what brilliance! Infected patients can avoid contaminating medical facilities where testing is unavailable. Large numbers can be accommodated and we will finally be provided with the statistics we so desperately need to get a handle on this epidemic. Where are our leaders?
119
It should not be only ILL patients. The disease is spreading by those who asymptomatic!
4
@WJM Where are our leaders? Only the most suicidal will follow this leader into battle. I think this maybe just be the end of the Republicans.
1
We know just about all we need to know about this virus.
The long incubation period means when a case pops up, that person has already likely infected a dozen. That dozen will infect 144 before showing symptoms, and so on. Younger people have a very low death rate...maybe under 1%. People over 45 or so may have a death rate that is very much higher, we just don't know how high. That smokers and so on are more vulnerable seems true, but this just makes the risk more clear. You don't see smokers dropping dead from the flu that often.
As far as containment, it is clear already that people in this country do not have the collective will to do what it takes to slow the spread. Arguably we no longer have the collective will to do anything...but that's another discussion. Slowing the spread has only one purpose...to allow time for test kits to be manufactured, for the summer to get here and for the development of a vaccine, or more effective anti-viral drugs.
Why are we in this position? Technology and population growth have outpaced social development...as so often stated by the great science fiction writers. The live animal markets in China are a perfect example. A primitive practice that exists side-by-side modern technological marvels.
All voters must demand far more attention and funding for science education, research, and development. Can Republicans be reached at all? Is it time yet to slash the grotesque budget for military spending?
18
what ever the costs are for accommodating the Grand Princess must be billed to the Carnival Corporation.
we put a stop to corporate welfare NOW!
10
@Mary Elizabeth Lease, in a resent episode of Outlanders a small pox infected ship was promptly burned at sea. That will teach big corporations to not be cheap and to sanitize.
Well Ben Carson said on This Week With George Stephanopoulos that they were working on a plan Saturday to be finished Tuesday for ship docking Monday. Carson knew plan was taking 72 hours from Saturday--just didn't realize what he was saying since Monday was 48 hours later, not 72. Stephanopoulos pointed this out to an unfazed Carson, don't know if he grasped the importance and Stephanopoulos just kinda gave up on Carson telling him anything valuable....tsk....Trump Admin in nutshell
14
Didn't Mike Pence say everyone on the cruise ship would be tested. That's 3500 tests. Where are they coming from? More ridiculous lies from this administration. Thank good Anthony Fauci is speaking, at least he knows what he is talking about.
15
"Testing of the remaining passengers will be done in their quarantine areas, where they will remain for two weeks, officials said."
The new information is likely to infuriate Trump, since there will dozens, if not hundreds, of cases from such an enclosed petri dish.
3
@jhanzel "Sound and fury, signifying nothing."
1
We are all concerned by the implications of this potential pandemic. However, using the word "ballooned" to describe an increase to 600 over the weekend is hyperbolic, much like constantly describing the markets as "plunging" 200 points, or "surging" 200 points. Moderate the hype, NYT, and you will better serve the public interest in reporting on this crisis and other crises.
13
@Elliot
The point is that we don't know the actual number of cases of coronavirus because people with symptoms are not being tested. So to say that we don't have a crisis because there are only 600 active cases is to misunderstand or to deliberately mis-state what the crisis is.
With community spread occurring in many places all over the USA we really have no idea how many people are ill or where we need to vigorously begin social distancing as a way to mitigate the spread.
Please try to understand the basic epidemiology behind the concern of public health officials and new outlets trying to educate the public.
12
@Elliot Here here
Can we say the stock market has “plunged” 2,000 points and is still “plunging”?
1
But why would they? The do nothing my image is more important than people dying stable genius isn’t worried, so we shouldn't be either
See you at the next MAGA rally!
/s
3
US government did not do its job to prevent this pandemic from spreading in the US even after knowing that the virus was contagious and spread fast in China!! CDC failed to do its job to develop testing kits fast enough and we let let oversea travelers into this country freely without any detection!!
i.e. Taiwanese American (Egypt tour group)got tested positive in Taipei , the majority of the group from the US did not get tested or informed after a week-it caused grief!!
Hundreds if not thousands potentially can get infected!!
Today Trump still think that his administration does a good job!! What a liar!!
Hope our local governments will impose stricter measure than the incompetent Trump administration!!
7
@george NOTHING is more important than his cheating at golf. What's so hard to understand about that?
8
The headline would be more accurate as, “... WERE required...”
3
I think Trump's "expert" doctors should quit, en masse.
It's obvious that the Administration is not serious about listening to thier advice, is ridiculing them behind their backs and to their faces ( Trump...a "doctor" by osmosis?!?!?).
Let Trump put someone worthy of this worldwide virus pandemic in charge....
Someone like Ivanka and Jared....pretty, sparkly dresses, perfect hair, vast stores of knowledge..and photogenic for FOX appearances....not like these old unattractive doctor people using bigly words like "mitigate" that Trump supporters don't understand...
Why do we continue this farce of Pence's daily remarks? The words no sooner leave his lips than Trump contradicts them....
And Azar? My God.....the fawner of all fawners....Just watch his face when he is standing beside Pence, or especially, beside Trump.
It looks like he want's them to "get a room" if you know what I mean.
9
I live in one of the states that has it's primary election the end of April. For the past 12 years I have volunteered at the polling station where I also vote. Because of the Coronavirus, I am seriously thinking about calling Voter Registration at our country court house and telling them I can not work the polls this time, out of concern for coming in contact with the Corona virus in large part because of how people now check in: on an iPad.
When people check in, I [and other polling volunteers] ask the person's name, look it up on the iPad, then flip the screen over so the voter can sign the screen with his/her finger or the one stylus for every iPad. The voter either flips the screen back so I can see it or I flip it back to finish registering them, with the same stylus, then hand him/her an activated card to take into the adjacent room to stick in a machine and vote. The used card is collected and reactivated for other voters: we stick it in a card reader and push buttons to activate it either Democrat or Republican.
The side of the iPad, stylus, and cards put a poll volunteer--and voters--in contact with other peoples' germs. Until I call Voter Registration, I am assuming people there have not considered polling stations and the way people now have to vote as less than safe as Coronavirus spreads. Sani-wipe the iPad, stylus, and cards voter to voter? They probably could not buy enough if they wanted, in part due to hording.
6
@Marilyn Thank goodness for mail in ballots in some states. Our state has already advertised this, as well as warned voters not to lick envelope when mailing it in, suggesting tape instead. Hopefully many states will offer such options in the coming months with the spread of the coronavirus.
4
@Marilyn ALL states should be accelerating "vote by mail"!
2
@JM We can register to vote by mail for an election in my county. It used to be one had to give a reason for doing this, such as being away for vacation or some health related issue. I have not verified it yet, but someone told me our county no longer requires a reason to get an absentee ballot. I have not yet, but I am signing up to get one. If a reason is required, I shall put down that I am concerned what will happen to my two pets, one of which has cancer and takes twice daily medication, should I contract the Coronavirus at the polling station and require hospitalization rather than just be able to stay home. This is the truth.
1
Containment is long gone and mitigation is left to keep the US hospitals from becoming overwhelmed. It's time for Republicans to start offering thoughts and prayers since they can't get their act together to protect the American people from a national health emergency.
17
I cannot understand the hesitation in closing schools in areas where there are known coronavirus cases. Let the kids stay home. It is time this government made it easier on the poorer kids by giving an allowance for the economically poor to enable them to stay home. If they don’t have computers, nothing wrong with paper homework. It’s been done through many centuries. It’s ridiculous to keep schools open when universities are shutting down. Why would we want to expose older teachers and administrators to this virus? Why would we want to expose older parents and grandparents at home to a possible infection. And most importantly are we comfortable giving this virus a bigger arena to infect so as to be able to mutate into perhaps a more lethal strain?
Maybe it’s fake news or not, but it becomes exceedingly disturbing when you read about developing countries testing tens of thousands of people and here we can’t seem to cough up a thousand testing units. Is the reality, that, we are so behind in science, technology and strategy? Is America the super nation a myth?
9
@Meena: I wish the president, relevant cabinet members and other health authorities had as much common sense as you seem to in your thinking here! Thank you.
The worst thing about this is the panic and the resulting economic hardship. This horse is out of the stable. You seriously think you can shut down whole cities or countries? You can't. Let's not make it worse by causing people to lose their jobs, too.
3
@Pat The worst thing...is panic and economic hardship? Really? That's the worst thing in your opinion? Wow. Get ready for a rough ride Pat. Good luck to you.
2
@Pat: With all respect: this isn't panic. Employers need to be creative right now--and generous (if they can) about their profits. I'd rather lose my job than my life. Yes, some whole cities and countries need to quarantine right now to get a handle on contagion--it's the only way.
2
In epidemiology, a disease vector is any agent which carries and transmits an infectious pathogen into another living organism.
The disease vectors for Covid-19 include any surfaces one human being can come into contact with that is subsequently contacted by another human being.
That includes the 6 foot radius of everyone coughing or sneezing right NOW...and NOW...and NOW!!
you see the problem?
5
When you have no systematic plan for a dangerous eventuality, that’s called incompetence. Something Americans have been subjected to for more than three years now.
16
China can build two huge hospitals in two weeks and Trump's USA can't even muster up a serious number of test kits in two months. Tired of winning yet?
28
@JRW So tired...so very, very sick and tired.
2
@VMS As we used to say in the army, "I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired."
For Donald Trump this is just another bankruptcy. He fails and others pay.
18
@gc the middle class taxes.
Stricter measures are paramount to containing viral spread. The situation requires not only stricter measures but intelligent measures.
"Measures" taken so far by trump's guess-as-you-go team have done the opposite - they made the pandemic worse. His decision to restrict 3500 people to the Pacific Princess cruise ship has almost certainly condemned them all to the illness. There will be, soon if not already, 3000 infections on that ship alone. trump's decision HAS put 3500 people at risk of death.
His blind obfuscation of the severity has allowed the virus to enter each state. However, the official numbers hide the real infections-count because many infections are unconfirmed due to insufficient test kits in most states. Without test kits, we cannot confirm with certainty who is and is not infected. This means people truly infected but not yet confirmed are moving around society, infecting others. The community spread continues, while trump acts to keep the official count inaccurately low. The 500 known cases is inaccurately low because the gov't has not facilitated testing for enough people -- due to trump-led failures.
Epidemiologists know the exponential growth all pandemics follow, and they can reliably predict how this SARS-CoV-2 virus is spreading in America. They understand that in America we likely have thousands of people infected (but untested), and spreading the infection daily. Deaths will rise.
We need a leader with a clue, one with a non-infeKted mind.
14
Hoping that Bill Gates and his team develop a vaccine quickly.
9
Minimal testing and plans to send people home will spread this further. About 3500 people onboard, including 2421 passengers and over 1000 crew
Only 45 people tested.
About 3450 people not tested.
21 positive, including 19 crew.
Early tests can give false negatives.
Likely many undiscovered cases, possibly among kitchen staff.
Trump says we have plenty of test kits. Foreigners will be sent home on planes, likely infecting everyone onboard.
There have been cases of people spreading Covid19 27 days after infection without symptoms. Why quarantine for only 2 weeks?
Why not just treat everyone in one facility?
3
Have you noticed that when interviewed, the only one who answers in a responsible way is Dr. Fauci. Just ignore anyone who speaks from the White House, all they do is play down the seriousness of this virus and of course the incompetent president is only concerned about his ratings. How is it that S Korea has far more testing kits than we do? Their leaders must care more about their population than we do. The elderly with underlying conditions should put themselves under self-imposed quarantine.
12
@Sari: And even Dr. Fauci seems to generalize a bit too much for my liking--afraid, it seems, to actually come right out and be specific about dangers, probabilities, and needed drastic measures to be followed. I get the idea that he's afraid for his job if he says "too much".
We won't contain it. We need to start manufacturing the things that will be needed. Masks, drugs and body bags.
6
It really feels like we're on our own here. People are being asked to decide how to best tend to themselves.
If ever there was a glaring example of how completely incompetent Trump is to manage anything, much less a pandemic, this is it. NOW will his minions and cult followers see the light of day and realize that Trump is unfit? Or, are they still believing Limbaugh and Faux News?
Be careful out there!
5
@Kathryn It's called the "lifeboat theory". With limited facilities and supplies (e.g., test kits!), it's impossible to care for all who will need it, so yes, we are on our own.
Good luck!
3
Why are the experts worrying instead of enforcing a trict quarantine - the ONLY way to slow down the coronna virus epidemic! There is no way of stopping it - probably - but i we at least slow it down, perhaps it willl "burn out" and infact a smaller number of people than at present.
People should immediately cancel all social events - STAY AT HOME. Order in food, medicine, whatever you need. Put off any thing which is optional.
Use your common sense. Don't lt you kids go to school. If you work outside your home, stay at home. If you must work in public, wash hands frequently, wer goggles and rubber gloves, and change the gloves frequently.
Slow down the spread and perhaps we will at least have time to develop a vaccine which reduces the impact of the disease on older people who appear to have the highest death rate. But the amount of exposure must also be a factor - witness the death of Dr. Li, our Guardian Angel in China who warned us of the coming pandemic before he died of it himself.
All school districts should be closed by now. Teach your kids some self-reliance. Speed up their at-home learning. Devise art projects with materials at home.
Keep your pets inside your own yard or house.
Don't go anywhere. If you feel you have to go to church/synagugue to stay right with God or whatever, rethink how you can create a religious experience at your computer at home - e.g. go to an internet site or watch a nature/science program. Those are a form of religion.
3
The incompetence and dishonesty of the Trump administration are breathtaking. We all knew that this President would be completely incapable of dealing with a real crisis, and now we’re seeing that play out in real time.
Folks, listen to expert advice, do the right things and take care of yourselves, because no help is coming from our government.
12
How is "social distancing" supposed to work in New York City on the 5 train at rush hour?
11
@JD
stay home-don't ride the train-
1
@JD Poorly.
2
Sure. Miss a pay check. Your landlord will understand
This is a slow moving hurricane. To calm fears lets hear the President tell the country that he is freeing up FEMA type dollars to pay living expenses of people quarantined and to pay medical bills for testing and treatment.
8
Well how about even this late in the game, this Administration simply starts showing any degree of willingness to lead from the front of the curve, rather then from behind it. And what about starting with common sense actions like offering sick leave to the many thousands of low income service and health care workers who the general populace comes in contact everyday ( like clerks, custodians,fast food workers, security personnel, secretaries and health care aides) who can not afford to stay home when ill, because they have few if no benefits. And what about taking the next logical step, and making sure that these low income workers will not have to feel like they would have to go into debt if they sought medical treatment or testing for the virus? Hello, ACA?
And finally, what if Trump announces that in order to help pay for the common sense actions like sick leave and medical care for the low income workers during this Crisis, Trump Inc also announces that they will seek to impose a surtax on the large corporations and the wealthy whose income are in the top 3 percentile, for the next 2 years. But of course, this will only occur when Pigs Fly (or the Democrats win in November).No?
6
Want to slow the spread without quarantining entire communities, even if people don't have the virus or symptoms? Here are some solutions:
Severely curtail all flights to Europe, Asia, the Middle East and beyond.
Severely curtail domestic flights. Especially from regions where there are active outbreaks.
Force the airlines to refund customers who can't take their trips, even if they purchased non-refundable tickets.
Push pause on the cruise industry and make them refund passengers. How many of these current outbreaks started from someone on a cruise ship.
Beyond that, implement social distancing by banning large gatherings.
Dramatically expand testing so we know who's positive and can selectively quarantine people.
Cancel all non-urgent surgeries and medical procedures.
Close schools as need be -- but with the provision that time will be made up during the summer, when the disease spread will likely slow.
If we can do all of this, we could dramatically slow the outbreak, allowing us to effectively treat those who need help.
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@Rose
I would only add that every county should have an isolation facility dedicated to the care of infected patients. They should NOT be placed amongst the general population in community hospitals, where the risk to healthcare workers and other patients are far too great.
Patients undergoing treatment or surgery for other illnesses have enough to worry about without the added risk of exposure to coronavirus at the hospital!
7
@Susanna : Indeed!
1
The Trump Administration approach to everything, with the exception of Trump's re-election, is never to have a systematic plan. That takes government resources, thought, strategic action, cooperation, and compromise.
Trump's answer to everything is money and "We'll see what happens."
Are we ever seeing!
9
A reminder to everyone to pay attention not just to the well-being of the elderly, but of prison inmates and detainees at the border, who are all crowded together and are most likely not being provided with sufficient hand sanitizer and other hygienic supplies. When the coronavirus hits these populations, they are going to be hit hard. Whatever your stance on incarceration or immigration issues, we cannot leave these human beings to die.
Also a reminder that the Trump administration in 2018 cut 80% of the CDC's worldwide anti-epidemic programs, and is more concerned with making the number of cases appear low rather than test as widely as possible. Trump is now reaping what he has sown. This short-sightedness and self-interest is a moral abomination that will literally cost hundreds if not thousands of American lives. If there is any justice at all, the American people will make Trump pay dearly for it in November.
17
@Jason I have been wondering what the US will do if people being held at the border begin to show signs of Covid-19. One of my concerns is that rather than being treated humanely, they will be immediately dumped into Mexico, endangering the general population of both the US and Mexico. We should not forget that the US-Mexico border crossing is extremely busy, with thousands of (mostly legal) crossings every day- freight, visitors, students attending US schools, etc; and a virus does not care about immigration status. Keeping people penned up on the border is atrocious, and could easily make an already bad situation even worse.
4
A major problem is the lack of information on viral spread-- due to the lack of testing, caused by the profound lack of preparation in the US hoping this was just SARS or MERS redux despite China (belatedly) shutting down an entire city.
So here we are. Only a few thousand tests so far? Really? Each death implies hundreds infected in the community, wandering around infecting still more people. Of course the market panics, the presumption is always worst case and there is no information implying otherwise; indeed, based on other countries disaster is just around the corner. Look at Italy.
Free widespread testing (that is, millions of tests), get data to find out how good or bad things are, and what kind of response to make based on information. I know, science based, an anathema to the current "critical thinking and science is a Democrat plot to take over the country" mentality. As for the cost, the Fed has already lost tens of billions in tax revenue from arbitrage and panic. The tax arbitrage losses will never be recovered... so good show administration. Lose lose, particularly for the taxpayer.
12
The spread of the virus cannot be halted but it can be slowed.This is important because new pandemic viruses generally lose their virulence after about six months (i.e. 2-3 months from now) simply because the less severe variants do not disable their hosts and spread more rapidly than the more severe strains. The most important countermeasure remains self-quarantine, i.e. if you are sick stay home. While mild infections may go unnoticed, people with symptoms are the most likely to spread the illness. This was essentially how Toronto stopped SARS.
13
@Dan Woodard MD Thank you, Doctor. It's nice to read comments from those versed in how this illness realistically spreads and can be halted.
1
We are a nation of about 330, 394,146 million people according to the latest estimates, and yet we are at the bottom of the list for CoronaVirus testing. Duh, how can that be?
We have to move along on this and start testing so we can see how we can control the transmission of the virus.
My wife and I are old people; we remember when Buddy Holly was still singing, and we know all about the Beatles. We are also at risk of dying from this CoronaVirus. We need to know where it is, how many people have it, and all steps necessary to put the Kibosh on the problem.
We need leaders who can lead us in the right direction, not politicians. Where are they?
34
Almost everyone in the target age group of old folks will still be around come election time. How about everyone REMEMBERS just exactly what this administration had done to help the virus along.
If this issue is not enough to illustrate just how lame and badly educated and anti-citizen these folks are (Trump & his cadre) - nothing will
16
While many US cities cancel events that would attract tens of thousands of people, the City of Dallas has not cancelled the annual St. Patrick's Day Parade which is estimated to attract around 120,000 attendants.
This is so unconscionable. Money over the health of citizens?
20
@Don Juan
It is like Philadelphia during the Spanish Flu. Their parade ultimately killed 14,000 Americans.
2
Advising only the elderly to restrict travel misses the point entirely. The likelihood for infection is the same for the young and the old. The young will bring back their infection to their homes, communities and schools. They will infect the elderly - parents, grandparents, teachers. The public and policy makers deserve to understand that although the personal consequences of becoming infected differ, the public health consequences are the same.
79
@Peter Good point. I'd say the risk with younger travelers are even worse because they probably have better ability to fight off the infection. When the young become mildly symptomatic, they are likely to continue to work and party as usual. In contrast, the older patient is more likely to self isolate and seek medical help. So the young patient is likely to continue to infect others for a longer period than the older patient.
4
China built two hospitals in two or three days. We take three days just to make a decision about what to do with a cruise ship, and then another three days to offload the ship. We need to be able to move more quickly in a rapidly evolving coronavirus landscape.
41
This horse has left the barn. Focus on standard upper respiratory prevention and treatment measures, look for a vaccine and settle down. Containment is a fantasy.
13
@Steve Biasini Containment is a fantasy, but slowing the spread is not, and could be the difference between flooding the health care system with cases all at once and more slowly where we are more equipped to handle all the cases.
California has come out with some guidelines that make some sense about school closures, etc.
20
@Steve Biasini -- cities could do a lot of at least help the virus spread. Some are doing just that, other cities, like Dallas, Texas, have no plans to cancel the annual St. Patrick's Day parade that may attract as many as 120,000 people. This is NOT a good time to have the parade.
Sponsored by the Dallas Mavericks, and others, why is this parade allowed to take place on March 14, 2020?
The only two reasons I can think of, and in that order: Greed and Ignorance!
As a former Chief Operating Officer/Administrator of a smal rehabilitation hospital for children, infection control is second nature to me.
Until there is other information, I am keeping my distance from public events, curtailing much eating out, and washing my hands frequently.
Though I have a healthy immune system, I don't want to be a carrier, let alone come down with the virus myself.
Luckily, I am retired and don't have to face what to do with the work place or children in school, nor am I planning to fy or take a cruise.
I'm keeping a close eye on recommendations for here in San Diego and just doing local errands, carefully.
Here's hoping we can all use common sense in the coming days.
58
i am hoping that some reporter may take the time to read these comments to know what people are wondering about.
as with other commenters, i am a little pessimistic about the containment efforts and curious to know just what we are getting by halting so much economic activity. the costs seem enormous to me, and the benefits are not all completely obvious. it would be nice for leaders to give us some "big picture" perspective.
on the subject of "big picture" thinking i am also wondering what the prognosis is for society. is this like a hurricane that comes through and we clean up after it is gone, or will this virus be with us for awhile? will we see it diminish over summer and come back? will we all be in this same boat 9 months from now on the rebound? how long will we be shutting the world down when someone coughs?
thanks for reading.
11
@GDB Pandemic viruses generally lose virulence within 3-6 months of their initial appearance since the less debilitating variants spread more rapidly while the lethal ones kill off their hosts. This virus is similar to SARS and is unlikely to rebound.
Flu is an exception because it has a membrane envelope which protects the critical parts of the virus from the immune system and new envelope variations tend to appear each year. But even flu could be greatly reduced if people with symptoms would simply stay home. Those with no clinical symptoms may carry the infection but are less likely to spread it.
4
@GDB The benefits of mitigation efforts are in this graph:
https://twitter.com/symbiomics/status/1234308557471965185
I hope this event highlights the absurdity of everything being manufactured offshore. The federal gov should, if necessary, subsidize the manufacturing of emergency drugs and supplies here.
19
@linda How about universal health care while they are at it? (It would cut your premiums in half, with no co-pay and a low deductible, just like in every other developed nation.)
14
@linda -- we should never have outsourced the production of our drugs. Never. But again, money talks.
2
@linda
Absolutely brilliant.
I worry about how social distancing will work when you have to evacuate people at the same time. Think about fire season in California and hurricane season elsewhere. There are a few months until then, but it's time to think about it now.
11
Why do we have the option of going on cruises? These floating Petri dishes need to be shutdown for the duration of this outbreak.
If we don't start mandatory restrictions, the cost to lives and treasure will be great.
33
@Edward Allen Unfortunately cruise ships are well known for various viral outbreaks.
3
@Edward Allen -- speaking of mandatory restrictions: the City of Dallas has no intention of cancelling the annual St. Patrick's Day parade, scheduled for March 14, 2020. About 120,000 people are estimated to attend.
Other cities have cancelled public gatherings. Why on earth would Dallas not cancel this parade?
2
@Dan Woodard MD I lived in Alaska for several years with people coming off the cruise ships by the thousands into our small community. I saw cruise passengers vomiting in the streets of our town during a norovirus outbreak on the ship. It didn't seem like the cruise lines were doing anything to protect their passengers or the rest of us. I definitely eliminated cruises from my future vacation plans!
1
I listened to Governor Newsom yesterday as he was informing the public of the measures and logistics necessary to prevent and contain the spread of this particular coronavirus as we await the docking and subsequent disembarking of the Grand Princess cruise ship. I was once again proud of not only my governor but also of our state's health professionals re the lengths and breadths to protect us. Simultaneously, I could not help but think of the "if only" when applied to the federal government's response to this lethal disease. We are now sprinting to catch up with an epidemic which is showing signs of possible running amok. Just imagine if we had a president who took science and in this case medical science seriously. Just imagine if we had a president who anticipated and for that matter listened from the get-go to experts in the field of infectious diseases. This virus was inevitable. Yet its spread could have been assuaged if only this administration were able to separate politics from science.
95
@Kathy Lollock
In exactly 240 days we can throw this con man out of office.
But who's counting?
7
Although the article states "acknowledging that the tried-and-true public health measures of isolating the sick and quarantining their contacts are no longer enough," the problem is that we simply did not follow the tried-and-true public health measures, and instead chose to ignore/minimize the risks. If you look at the CDC National Pandemic Response Strategy (look specifically at the 2017 update), you can plainly see that we are not even attempting to follow what we recommend as best practices - and what we are doing is being done far too late according to our own timelines.
37
@Ella Luce Excellent point. Although many infections are not noticeable, it is people with symptoms that are by far the most likely to spread the illness. Most epidemics can be controlled if people would simply stay home if they are sick. Unfortunately many Americans ignore the advice and many cannot afford a day off, as sick leave n longer exists in most workplaces.
5
My wife and I are in our 70’s and have taken seriously the US government’s new advice for the elderly to avoid cruises because of the coronavirus epidemic.
However, when I called Regent cruise line this morning to cancel our upcoming cruise to the Baltic I was informed that our several thousand dollar deposit would not be refunded but instead placed in a “Reassurance Account” to be applied to a future cruise that must be booked within a year.
No one knows if the coronavirus will be gone or conquered in a year, my wife and I are getting older and less mobile every year, and based on recent events we have zero confidence in the ability of Regent and all the other cruise lines to prevent their ships from turning into floating Petri dishes.
Indeed, based on my conversation with Regent today I can confirm that cruisers (and especially the elderly) are at heightened risk of contracting coronavirus and totally likely to lose their deposits.
Exposure to coronavirus is frightening and disruptive no matter what one’s age, so think twice—or three or four times—before booking with Regent or any other cruise line; they do not refund deposits even when their trips are scheduled to stop in countries with confirmed coronavirus cases and when government agencies recommend not taking cruises.
65
@Mon Ray That is terrible. I have received emails from three different airlines reassuring me of their "flexibility" but only United has said they will waive fees for changing or canceling flights. I know companies in the travel sector will suffer enormous economic lasses and in some cases bankruptcy, but even so there should be some sort of mandate from the federal government to provide refunds to consumers under these circumstances. This would encourage more people to stay home. Sadly, consumer protection is not a priority of the current administration.
13
@Mon Ray The federal government should step in and require cruise lines to refund deposits, given the current pandemic. This is a national health emergency.
12
@Mon Ray -- Regent should refund your money. Frankly, I would not shed a tear if all cruise-lines stopped operating forever. Not just floating petri dishes but vessels who pollute our oceans.
10
We have to coordinate large-scale evaluations during major hurricanes in the south, and that is done entirely by state and local officials. Were it not for coordination at that level, no one would go anywhere; it's total madness. The coronavirus presents the same problem in reverse: coordination is required to confine people rather than to disperse them. The article suggests that this can be accomplished in some top down fashion, with presumably the federal government in the lead role. I doubt it. This has to be done "bottom up," and the appropriate officials need to be talking now.
16
@marfi We need action from top to bottom. Traditionally the federal government would be taking the lead, with local governments implementing.
Going to go ahead and mention the elephant in the room: thousands of mobile "workplaces" that people will not stay home from, Uber and Lyft vehicles. Two or three infected drivers in a large city could turn into 10,000 in a week, and there is apparently no way to order them off the streets, nor have I seen any discussion of this. Probably happening already. There was one Uber driver case in New York.
32
@slangpdx The only solution is for people with symptoms to be proactive and stay home. If you are sick, actively choose to be inactive.
1
Yeah. I’m sure my landlord will under why I can’t pay the rent this month.
1
I truly believe it's to late for containment, the only way we could had done that was with mass testing like in South Korea or with draconian measures like China did in Wuhan and Italy is doing now. We wasted several weeks by not being prepared and with an Administration more concerned with numbers and politics than with real containment.
71
@JCA Not to mention, Trump is not very bright, relies on his "gut" (whatever that means) and Fox news.
3
Every day, I encounter people who are not following the advice from the medical experts. At the deli this morning, an elderly woman kept coughing without covering her mouth and in front of the cooked food. I walked out without buying anything.
Last week at the bank, there was a man on line in front of me, who wore scrubs. This shows he works in the health field in some capacity. He kept coughing without covering his mouth. All I could do was move away from him as I shook my head in disbelief.
These are adults, but they do not know enough at this stage in their lives to cover their mouths when coughing. People have to be told to wash their hands. Seriously. Yet, people wonder why the Coronavirus is spreading.
88
@ME
misanthropy is making a comeback.
2
@ME It is no wonder that the flu and other diseases spread like wildfire in the winter. All of the things that they suggest we do now should have been happening many years ago, with our without corona virus.
8
@ME
Well, everyday I see cases of people coughing or sneezing into their hands in public spaces, especially cafes. mostly elderly people. I've walked up to a couple of them and told them that they should use their elbow. It is as if they were completely oblivious of protocol. One wiped his hand on his trousers and then went on to put his hands on the table. Watching that, I realized containment is impossible. That is the most basic of rules. Imagine the tongs and serving spoons in buffets and the sneezing on top of the food.
13
I think the time for adequate testing to make any difference in outcomes is probably over. By this I mean that the time for any kind of coordinated and meaningful “containment” response to the results of testing has passed. Fauci says - and honestly I’m pretty much only listening to the Gospel of Fauci at this point - that the vulnerable need to start distancing now no matter where you live. When he starts talking “mitigation” it feels like we’ve passed a threshold from which there’s no coming back “until there’s a vaccine or treatment” This is the significant part of this article to me. What difference can it make how many test positive at this point, for a virus that has no symptoms as often as not, and people are encouraged to travel freely within the US? The coming months are gonna be scary enough.
49
@Jessica
Fauci is, indeed, the only one in the administration that you should be listening to. He is a true expert and tells it like it is. Everyone else is just a part of the Trump apparatus and subject to his politically driven whims.
But testing is valuable even when the disease is "out of the bag". It is the best way to know how things are going. It has been very encouraging to watch the numbers of new infections and deaths in China coming down every day.
The saying "If you can't measure it, you can't manage it" applies here. Testing is very important and needs to be expanded rapidly and widely.
36
@Jessica
The critical path in handling the covid-19 epidemic was to identify the virus, develop a test, characterize the spread, and isolate the infected patients. By that test, for all its missteps, China did an excellent job. The US failed. Someone, apparently under Azar, decided to design and manufacture US tests, rather than use the designs of WHO and Germany. They demonstrated that the US can't match China, even where a million
American lives could depend on it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/coronavirus-testing-united-states/2020/03/05/a6ced5aa-5f0f-11ea-9055-5fa12981bbbf_story.html
Testing for the coronavirus might have stopped it. Now it’s too late.
By William Hanage
associate professor of epidemiology at the Center for Communicable Disease Dynamics at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health
6
@Enigma Variation Testing WAS more important than now,as we missed that window of opportunity by (obviously) being unable to supply working test kits, in sufficient quantities.
Still no word about how those first "bad component" kits were ever released, as they could not have passed the QC criteria.
It would appear the secondary problem is how slowly we're able to determine the test results. We won't be seeing any "drive-through" testing in this country.
And, although a couple of weeks ago (seems like 2 months!) I was wondering what had happened to our Surgeon General, after seeing him evade answering the clear questions put to him, I now see he was awaiting his "this is what you say" WH briefing, before raising his head. Useless!!
2
Officials are reluctant to take aggressive measures, weighing the risk /benefit of quarantines. One must pick the moment where that line is crossed, But they are most (and only) effective early on, to buy time, which is the best we can hope for short of effective treatment.
I would also like to see what the government can do to aid in ramping up inventories of masks, disinfectants, and other supplies. We may be paying a price for offshoring manufacturing. We need a coherent, candid, and bold federal response.
Depressing to see presidential surrogates downplaying, and even ridiculing public alarm and local responses to the pandemic. In an era where nothing ever goes away, one should be careful when writing their epitaph.
21
"fewer than 1,000 people had been tested for the coronavirus in California and about 120 had tested positive"!
In Italy and now in Germany and France many thousands have been tested.
I expect a sudden and quick crisis in the US very soon.
59
I asked a Friend in Italy why it is so much worse there. He said it isn’t. That their free health care system just allowed way more people to get tested. They are suppressing numbers here. And lack test kits. It’s most likely a lot worse then we know already
313
@Jason
" It’s most likely a lot worse then we know already". It certainly is. But some people in the US administration don't like high numbers so it's better to keep it secret.
19
@Jason -- I have no doubt that we are not given the official numbers.
The City of Dallas, can you believe this?, is not planning to cancel the annual St. Patrick's Day parade scheduled for March 14, 2020. Over 120,000 people are expected to attend.
This scares the heck out of me. Why isn't the City cancelling? I wrote to the Governor of Texas. Someone should tell those fools in Dallas that now is not the time to gather in order to drink green beer!!!
8
@Jason
No test kits therefore no diagnosis and no disease. Trump logic.
8
We need Mitch McConnell and Nancy Pelosi to offer a united leadership message and take over the management of this crisis. It is obvious that CDC and others are having a difficult time working with this administration. Accurate, reliable information is critical and a government that initiates actions that support communities and assist the most financially and medically vulnerable. Come on people, this president is incapable of putting country over himself.
94
At this point it's probably too late to stop the spread of coronavirus which fortunately, for the overwhelming majority of people, is not a serious issue. Why not save the economy and avoid alot of unnecessary anxiety by letting the coronavirus spread naturally and instead of quarantining those who have the virus, just quarantine those for whom the virus is likely to cause serious illness or worse? Let's just get this whole thing over with and move on with our lives.
6
@Jay Orchard "...just quarantine those for whom the virus is likely to cause serious illness or worse..."
How do you objectively define this group? Given our rates of obesity, diabetes, cardio vascular and pulmonary disease, and cancers you could be talking up to a third of the U.S. population.
48
@Jay Orchard " Why not save the economy and avoid alot of unnecessary anxiety by letting the coronavirus spread naturally "
You sound like you believe we have a choice. That time has passed.
8
@Alonzo quijana
One third is better than three-thirds
1
By all humane means prevent any further spread of the Coronavirus. It is better to have as strict measures enforced as possible to avoid being in the same boat as Japan, Italy, Iran and South Korea even if it means the cruise industry will suffer the after shocks. As far as the passengers on the cruise liner they can spend more time getting fresh renewable air on the deck and the balcony and maybe in the life boats. Please don't bring them on the shore until they are infection free. The cruise owner can make mutually agreeable middle of the Ganges agreements with the passengers.
3
why can't we use WHO test kits? Just to soothe the egos of the CDC?
50
@seattle expat :
I read recently Trump is economically connected in some way with the very fallible test kits used in the U.S. No idea if it is true, but I doubt the CDC is the "egotist" in the room!
7
@seattle expat No, just to fill the pockets of private manufacturers, who give generous bribes--er,campaign contributions.
4
@seattle expat
God no, that would drive the number infected up and upset Trump.
2
At this point, our greatest threat is to our health care professionals. We'll survive the virus but we won't survive hospitals emptied by the virus.
29
When a president of the US uses the term "beautiful" to describe the Corona virus test then everyone should know he is not in the real world and we could be in for real trouble. I believe Anthony Fauci, not DJT. Am in my 80's and have to stay inside for most part as cannot do stairs for time being since have cracked hip. I feel it better for me to be at home. My landlord and two friends come over but I sure don't want to be out in a crows now.
And I think Trump or someone in the state he is holding rallies should wake up and cancel those rallies until further notice. Trump does not care if you get sick.
92
@Joan S. It probably does not occur to our stable genius that he might get the virus at one of his events.
3
To limit the spread from a 'Hot Spot' there has to be testing of known contacts as soon as possible.
That testing has not been available to health care providers or public health departments.
If I saw a patient with a STD I was required to tell the patient his or her contacts have to go in for testing or the public health departments will contact the contacts.
If there not readily available and accurate tests for contacts their is no way to stop the spread of the Coronavirus.
This failure to provide tests in addition to the the Dear Leader not wanting any news of the virus to be spoken of, written about or preparations made in the whole executive branch.
This is exactly how Communist China's leadership failed in the early days of the virus infecting its citizens.
In the case of epidemiology no news is bad news.
42
@Edward B. Blau
Lacking test kits is so third world.
3
The U.S. has the "boy who cried wolf" occupying the highest office in the land and he thinks his lies will work on the coronavirus as well as they have worked for him the last 3 years. His false pronouncements merely fan the flames.
What Trump doesn't realize is Mother Nature always bats last; and she bats 1000.
103
@judgeroybean
Trump is now shifting the blame for test delays from Obama to the NIH and CDC.
He TOLD America over and over, at least 6-8 times, that "ANYone could have the test, today and yesterday."
And the CDC failed to do this.
2
You have to have faith the Republicans will do the right thing for you and your family.
They are calling for the Fed to give out trillions in zero interest loans to the rich. See all better.
48
When in the past 10 years or so have the Republicans shown any interest whatsoever in "doing the right thing?"
40
@ellienyc please re-read gene's post with a heavy dose of sarcasm
5
So where is the Grand Princess going to go once it leaves Oakland after debarking its passengers? What about medical care for the 1100 crew members? I honestly don't get this. The crew deserve the same treatment as the passengers. Get them off the boat. Segregate the sick from the well. Quarantine them until they are proven to be virus free. The fact that most of the crew are not American nationals is irrelevant. Keeping them on the boat and sailing off to sea seems like a very cruel and morally indefensible solution to me.
Princess Cruise Lines is an American company. It's headquarters are in Santa Clarita, California. It is owned by Carnival Cruise Lines, which is an American/UK owned company with headquarters in Florida. Just because the ships are operating under flags of convenience from other countries and hiring foreign nationals to do their work for them doesn't mean that basic standards of decency and fair play shouldn't apply.
I would hope that the news media will look into this and do what they can to insure that the crew members on the ship are not forgotten.
190
@Enigma Variation -- exactly. They must be taken care of as well.
Speaking about care: those on the boat -- passengers and crew -- should be in isolation for more than the 14 days. To date even the CDC does not know exactly when a person is clear and will stop spreading the virus.
7
@Enigma Variation
Who cares about the lives of these fellow human beings?
We just cannot have infected non-American crew members increasing Trump's numbers.
5
@Enigma Variation ahh there is the crux. It may be an American company but the ship is probably registered with Panama or the Bahamas. See the cruise industry gets around labor laws that way. It's why they can work their employees to death for as little as 2.80 per hour. There is only one cruise ship actually registered in this country and subject to American labor laws. It's a dirty industry that deserves to die out.
5
Now Trump can lock down sanctuary cities. Look out NYC!
7
We have experts????
12
@Derry We have world renown experts like Dr. Anthony Fauci who Trump & Company don't want to listen to and don't want them telling us the truth. Many people will die from this mess due to Republicans inaction and stupidity.
60
@Derry
You certainly do, however they’re not allowed to share their expertise because the facts make Trump look bad.
1
@Derry
Ex: former, has been.
pert: drip under pressure.
Expert: a former straight A student under pressure to pretend that they now understand and can control events far beyond their comprehension.
So yes, we have lots of experts.
So, guess what Dear Leader is doing today? Two closed door fundraisers!!! Howzabout that guy! No worries, nothing to do. Yesterday golf, today fundraisers.
I feel like screaming and never stopping. The men in the white coats would have to come and take me away - except it's Dear Leader that needs to be removed from the White House and his Constitutional duties. He's not capable of being president.
He and his enablers are causing people to die. He is directly responsible. But, hey! Let's go play golf!
194
@sophia - I am so with you on this. I fantasize going out into a field and primal screaming. From day one it has been obvious that Trump and his “best people” are unfit to lead. It has come to this. I believe that people are going to die unnecessarily because of Trump’s inadequacy. His stupidity and personality disorder have led us to this point. Tragic.
13
@sophia Amen. Thank you, Senators.
8
A reliable public health source said the US cases are doubling each week. Given 500, that would mean 2 million in 3 months -- long before a vaccine.
Americans are bad at containment and the messages from our leaders are mixed at best, deceptive at worse. I always respected Dr Fauci but he made a significant error during the DC anthrax episode by saying it could not escape sealed envelopes, which of course it did (I lived in DC then and remember those deaths well.) Now I worry Fauci might also error on the side of preventing panic, especially given the added pressure from Mr Trump to do so.
11
@Beth
Your health source concurs with a specialist in viral dynamics who suggests cases appear to be doubling around every 6.1 days (see link below). Politics need to be put aside because the virus doesn't care who you voted for.
Yes, at the moment, total fatalities are not extraordinary v. flu fatalities. No, panicking isn't good. However, looking at the real data and its patterns and making some hard decisions at the virus spreads is important. Many people will get a bit sick and just recover, but they can infect others. It's the at risk populations with higher mortality rates (over 70s are at 8%; over 80s are at 15% mortality) that need to be focussed on to reduce deaths and hospital / health care strain. The containment and or mitigation strategies should keep that in mind.
https://www.geekwire.com/2020/genetic-analysis-suggests-coronavirus-infections-double-every-six-days-spreading-hundreds/
4
If social distancing and restrictions are necessary to help in containment, why aren't we seeing places like Disneyland and Disney World closing? Places where there are large crowds, standing in line close to others, and touching common surfaces. Granted, the common spaces are sometimes outdoors, but so are many of the places in Italy where gatherings are now banned.
When will businesses take the lead to assist in this outbreak instead of worrying about their bottom line? Public health over shareholder wealth.
65
@Suzie Q The onus is certainly on businesses to help contain the spread. It’s also on individuals, many of whom claim, “I’m not high risk so who cares!” who are later around those in high-risk populations. We need to watch out for our communities not just ourselves.
10
@Suzie Q
My question is not why these places aren't closing but why are people still going there? Just don't go there.
People can have control if they want to.
9
@Suzie Q Give them time, they will close as they have in Europe and Asia.
2
Employers should be encouraging employees to work from home if at all possible, and schools should do the same. It is senseless to believe that business as usual will continue, much as we would all like to. Curbing contact now means potentially keeping students and employees well enough to work offsite.
12
About 200 people were involved with the nursing home, in the Seattle area, staff and residents and 19 have died beginning two weeks ago and continuing. At the same time, there were 5000 people on that cruise ship held up in Japan, staff and tourists, and maybe there have been 6 deaths so far (none reported in the last 10 days).
So are we going to see 500 deaths from the Japanese cruise ship this week or is something else going on in Seattle? Whatever, it has to be something relatively straightforward that could help all of us. What is someone hiding... in which situation?
3
@Dennis Byron
It’s a nursing home which predisposes it to a higher mortality rate. 9.5% still seems high
8
@Dennis Byron
A nursing home, by definition, has older or impaired people as residents. They are the people most at risk of dying of the disease. A cruise ship has both older people and younger, healthier people intermingled. You are comparing apples and oranges.
16
@Dennis Byron
The residents of nursing homes are, by definition, the highest risk possible, advanced age and a variety of chronic medical conditions as well as conditions where infections spread easily. The infection rate at the nursing home appears to have been extremely high with now 70 workers infected as well. So the numerator and denominator in this particular case were expected to be, and are, very high.
9
It is clear that when they instituted strict travel restrictions and social controls in Wuhan and Hubei province, the SARS CoV-2 rate started to drop. The time to implement voluntary social distancing is before there is widespread circulation. That the government is not publicly advocating this is a failure almost as bad as the continued lack of testing. Do not go to the movies and avoid any large meetings or concerts etc. that are still being scheduled. Avoid buffets and think about rescheduling that party. Stop shaking hands. Use self check out at the grocery store. Avoid ATMs and pin pads used by everyone. Limit food venues where they serve a lot of people, and cancel any conferences or non-essential travel. Think about everything public you touch and how you can disinfect your hands. Insist that your school make plans for closing and tele-schooling if needed. If you are over 60, you are definitely at higher risk and your risk goes up significantly with every decade after that. If you have asthma, chronic lung disease, heart disease, diabetes, any type of immunosuppression, you are definitely at higher risk and should be particularly motivated to practice social distancing.
47
My husband and I are both seniors with chronic medical conditions (diabetes etc.). We would like nothing more than to stay home. Unfortunately, our adult son who also has diabetes now has cancer. We take him regularly to the hospital for treatments. We follow all the advice about personal hygiene but we are terrified to be in the hospital crowds. We try to sit far away from everyone. Our government needs to be much more proactive in controlling coronavirus less more deaths occur.
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@george
Please let your son's oncologist know about your situation. As is routine at diagnosis, the oncologist's office may already have told your son about various social services available to him during treatment and/or offered to refer him to a social worker. There likely is a free or reduced-rate transportation service available through the hospital, a cancer community center, your municipality, or other social services network. If you become sick, you will not be able to have any contact with your son during his treatment, so it is even more important for you to avoid unnecessary exposure. Transportation is one thing that can be delegated.
Good luck to your family.
50
@mm Thanks for your reply. Been there, done that.
2
I am so sorry. You and your spouse are in an untenable situation, being at high-risk for severe effects of COVID-19 and being primary caregivers to your son, who is also at high risk due to chronic conditions and cancer treatment. It’s difficult to see a bright spot in your situation but remember that the United States, unlike China and other authoritarian governments (despite our current president’s authoritarian tendencies), has a strong culture of civic society. All of those nonprofit organizations that exist to aid and improve society will also play a strong role in caring for those who are affected by this epidemic. Please reach out to social services, via your son’s or your own healthcare provider, your local government, religious organizations, or a myriad of other well-established organizations in a position to help you. Unfortunately, my advice must also include a warning to be on the guard against scams set up to take advantage of the vulnerable. Civic organizations are viewed by authoritarian governments as threats to their control but in societies like the United States, they play a huge role in smoothing out the rough patches of our lives.
3
The lack of adequate ("beautiful") testing should terrify all of us.
With this administration it would be tempting to think that this is deliberate to "keep the numbers where they are" to make Trump happy. But I don't see Trump and his administration are able to think that far ahead to suppress the availability of testing.
If anything, it's the opposite: an administration so lacking in foresight and so greedy that they cut the offices and experts who would have been prepared to deal with this in real time. All the tax cuts in the world can't keep your family safe from this disease.
So the country suffers while the president plays golf.
226
@avrds
You are SO correct!
The opportunity to do any possible "tracking" and containment is over. That ship has now sailed! Thanks to Trump's ego and ineptness.
The responsibility for every person who dies in this country is now on is on his shoulders.
49
@avrds … How long will the MAGA faithful continue to show their allegiance to Trump by attending crowded rallies leading scientists advise against?
9
@sloreader
How long will the Sanders and Biden faithful continue to show their allegiance to them by attending crowded rallies leading scientists advise against? Only Sanders is drawing crowded rallies
Oh, wait. I forgot. Only Sanders is drawing crowded rallies. Biden draws some sparsely attended events. Then Super Tuesday voters vote for him because the corporate media has convinced them that he is the "most electable."
We have an opportunity right now to be inventive and solve interesting problems. Where are those creative discussions happening right now? I do not see any in the NYTimes today. Brand new businesses could grow out of this crisis providing in-home support for those who are ill. Innovations could be applied to all aging baby boomers after this crisis is over. Delivery systems of all kinds would be one area. Amazon is the prototype but on a neighborhood scale. No one in the cities need leave home for sure. Rural areas are in need of better support for staying home. And the financial institutions could benefit from incentives to go conservative and pause. If there is a vaccine in a year, have a year long crisis management slow down. Putting our whole world in financial jeopardy for the sake of free markets and capitalism is unnecessary and a mistake. There is an opportunity here, right now, to think with a very different set of goals.
17
"No one in the cities need leave home for sure."
Unless you want to shut down bodegas, supermarkets, schools, department stores, museums, bars, restaurants, car repair shops, our buses, and so on, I do not see how the people who keep these places running can do so remotely.
52
@B.
We have a consumer economy. Deliveries are probably way up, as are anything that can be consumed from the home.
It's wishful thinking to hope the economy collapses.
6
@AACNY
Wishful thinking? I wish Trump and his ship of fools out of office. I wish we liberals could get our act together to facilitate that. I wish I was younger with better hair and joints. After what happened to me, my family and to many, many millions of others around the world, I wish nobody has to go through what they did when the economy was run off the cliff in '08.
1
How about if we cancel political rallies and conventions? The leading contenders for the Democratic nomination and President Trump should follow the Pope's lead and just stream their speeches/diatribes/complaints/screeds/bogus declarations.
Maybe we can put this to a vote (no caucuses, please).
100
@Tom Q I want Trump to continue with his rallies...
42
@thewriterstuff I'd like to see how many people who say they believe in Trump would actually come to a rally.
1
To Tom q. Several thousand showed up in St. Peter’s Square to watch the Pope on the screens set up. After seeing so many of the “faithful” gather in the Square the Pope made a brief appearance at the window of the Apostolic Palace to greet the worshipers. Why set up screens for people to gather at if avoiding crowds is suggested.
2
At this point, should there not be community wide efforts to set up stations at each hospital and Dr.s offices for receiving and testing people who make emergency visits who are exhibiting symptoms? There should be signs and a number to call for information. Where is the implementation of plans and organized preparedness/response? This has all be reactionary.
37
@A Call your city health department. I bet they have been doing just what you are suggesting for over a month (the biggest thing that department is going to tell you is that THE test, as with any test, requires a doctor's order...)
8
@A
As with the ebola scare, the greatest threat was at the point of care -- that is, to front line health care professionals.
The biggest threat right now is if too many doctors and nurses have to go into 14-day quarantines because of contact with someone who tested positive without their having taken proper precautions, it could have serious effects on hospitals.
Without doctors and nurses, we're in big trouble.
22
@A
I show a video from South Korea where they had set up drive-throughs to test people. You didn't have to get out of your car and potentially infect others. That's what we need.
4
We are so behind and likewise delusional to the reality of this virus. The virus has likely been here for a while, its just diluted with this years influenza. The lack of widespread testing has further helped spreading the virus. Its not all negative news though, people should not panic, just be smart, have a plan and do what we should always be doing, wash your hands, cover your mouth and stop touching everything. This has been a nice reminder of what we should always be doing.
The system is failing us by not reassuring the public that is not vulnerable that they are at very low risk and STOP calling 911 and going to emergency rooms further spreading either Covid19 or the flu. Healthy folks need to be better informed that there is no cure for the flu, just like Coronavirus, so going to the hospital is just facilitating others getting sick.
What we need to do is protect the vulnerable, those with impaired immune systems and the elderly. I honestly think people just need to be a bit smarter and not panic.
31
As a physician, it would be helpful in your reporting to not only provide information of confirmed cases, and deaths PER COUNTRY, but also, like the WHO reports, total cumulative GLOBAL confirmed cases and deaths. Thank you.
25
@Clifford G. Andrew Johns Hopkins Medical is keeping tabs on those numbers. Their good source from specialists is:
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
5
@Clifford G. Andrew
I'd like to know more about those who have had it and survived, including estimates of those who didn't even know they had it.
It seems reasonable to assume that many of us have already had it.
6
@AACNY You're the third doctor I have "heard" say that in the last 24 hours. How come you guys are not interviewed on ABC fifteen times a day?
1
Hmm. On a day when markets are freaking out, just read an article by a specialist in viral dynamics in Washington State that suggests the virus doubles every 6.1 days. If you note that on Jan 23 there were about 800 cases and extrapolate to 111,000 cases today, that 6.1 seems to hold globally as well. If this finding IS globally correct and mitigation/containment efforts (improved or otherwise - tested or not) aren't effective or other things don't emerge that impact the virus' spread, this finding suggests that by early June, we could be looking at 3.3B infected globally.
3.4% death rate (current) suggests poss. 114M
2% death rate suggests poss. 67M.
https://www.geekwire.com/2020/genetic-analysis-suggests-coronavirus-infections-double-every-six-days-spreading-hundreds/
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
24
@Sharon Sheppard I won't disagree with your estimates but I would also add to this that the 3.4% fatality rate is averaged across all age groups. I read the other day that it is more like 10% for those in their 70s and 15% for those in their 80s. So, it's likely much lower than 3% for young folks. Averaging across all age groups may give us a total estimate but it underestimates the number of older people who will die. In any case, the numbers are staggering. Comparing it to the flu is only comforting to those who don't also think it through and realize that it's in addition to flu deaths, not just something that happens in isolation.
4
@Sharon Sheppard
Do these death rates account for people who had it, but never developed symptoms, or developed symptoms so mild they never got tested?
The absolute numbers are indeed large, but we are 7+ billion on this planet. Any easily transmittable and potentially fatal disease will have large casualties.
2
@jj
Young people continuously complain all the time about the cost of older people's social security, medicare, general healthcare, etc. and the effect on their pocket books. Well now you got your solution, the death rate is much higher for the old folks from this virus. Just check out the comments in this article and similar articles on how not to worry and let it spread and get it over with since it doesn't cause death in the majority of younger people, only the older folks. See, finally a solution without contributing to the health and welfare of the elderly. Hope grandpa and grandma don't leave you an inheritance. You should have to work for your livelihood just like the senior population did.
1
Where are the stats about people who have had Coronavirus and have recovered? How is that data gathered or are those numbers even available? The Times's and others' articles are hyperfocused on all the alarming rates and deaths. We need those facts, but what about the 98% or majority of people who have it and are fine. That's context. Why hasn't The Times conducted interviews with people who have had coronavirus and can discuss what it was like.
21
@Kathy
Because they don’t know they have it/had it. Not enough testing will push up the mortality statistics
7
@Kathy if the US had started widespread testing we would have a better idea now of those numbers. But between rolling out a compromised test initially, STILL not having enough tests and having overly stringent criteria for getting tested, we’ll never know. Other countries reporting a higher rate of infections are actually testing more people than we are. The one thing we can do? VOTE OUT this incompetent president and the republicans.
2
@Kathy
Because there is a very important political element in the Times coverage. Panic works for them. They don't want perspective.
1
FDR in 1941: “A day that will live in infamy.”
DJT in 2020: “Who could have predicted this?”
FDR recognized that challenges test character and donned the mantel of command. DJT puts on a red hat while ceaselessly shirks responsibility.
148
@DWS President trump stopped the Chinese and other Asian countries from coming into ours back in Jan. He also put in charge experts in the field like dr. Fauci from day one and Numerous medical professionals. This not about politics.
3
@Nancy and he did nothing to get essentials in place such as test kits or masks. And he doesn't want the cruise ship passengers to come ashore because the numbers will double. And he won't let the CDC tell the elderly to avoid airplanes as a mode of travel. It is political.
17
@Nancy he also misled people by saying its just like the flu, it will be over soon, etc etc.. he openly contradicted his experts on tv.. this is a disaster unfolding and he is playing golf , doing fund raisers, rallies and has calked criticism a hoax.. not encouraging for any of our future unfortunately.
2
Do you know what's terrifying? Reading this headline splayed across the picture on the yahoo! home page: 'Coronavirus: No symptoms to death in just hours.' (It was a quote from this article...)
This kind of fear-mongering (and it is, plain and simple) does not invite the reader to delve deeper into the article to find out that the people in whom this has been observed were nursing home residents, elderly - and I am guessing elderly and not in the best of health.
This is sickening. It's a new virus on the loose and people we have to hear from are the media, magnifying tbe dangers. Really. I already see that the play I want to see will not be performed next week. I can't imagine why anyone would want to show up for class at the university. The businesses on the campus will have to close and possibly lay off their employees. Can you see what anyone would think of a disease that shows no symptoms and you die within hours?
This is the upshot of journalists diving into the fray and wreaking havoc.
19
@kathy Sure, until it comes to a church, mall, nursing home, or trump rally near you.
12
@kathy :
so, you're blaming the messenger for the tornado, war, fire, or whatever?????
2
@Gabbyboy
When you have Trump supporters proclaim on national tv that they do not even believe that there is a coronavirus outbreak, we are in deep trouble.
1
60000 people died from the flu last year. This corinavirus seems a bit overblown to me.
8
@Meg Until it hits you or your family.
8
@Meg
I read 80,000. Either is the highest in decades and far exceeded the estimates.
2
@Meg There's no comparison to the flu, without 12 months of Covid-19 data. THEN you can compare. It's early. AND, we already have a flu vaccine, not so with Covid-19.
2
When will HE “ Sharpie “ Washington State into Canada, to
“ keep the numbers down “ ?
I’ll go with this week.
Sad.
32
@Phyliss Dalmatian
That was hilarious, thanks for the humour.
That would never work, whenever I am in the US and see weather reports, the world ends at your northern border.
Trump doesn’t know we’re here so he wouldn’t think of adding any states to Canada, also we’ve had no deaths and would like to keep it that way.
1
@Rod Sheridan
YOU live in a rational Society. Congratulations.
Cheers.
1
@Rod Sheridan Hmm. Maybe he'll try to buy Newfoundland, to "leverage" the numbers, similar to his Greenland "attempt".
1
Only 1000 tests done in Seattle area? This is the only piece of information that adequately describes the danger we all face. We will soon look like Italy or worse yet, China.. this is barbaric!
67
@Jen
What a tragedy that the Life Care staff and residents are begging to be tested still. C'mon, Seattle--prioritize these people.
We need widespread testing everywhere ASAP, but please, Washington State, prioritize those poor people at Life Care.
28
@Sandra Campbell Yes, agreed, but that assumes they have the tests they need. There are not "tests for anyone who wants one" yet. Far too late!
8
@Jen no we will not look like Italy because, contrary to our incompetent administration, the Italian government had sufficient tests, and broad enough criteria, to test a lot more people. Consequently, lots of people with the virus and serious containment strategies - even if they don’t stop the spread.
8
I wonder of the Trumpublican government structure, composed of industry hacks, is too busy finding ways to monetize this to do anything else.
67
This is what happens when the inmates take over the asylum.
41
Trump: “They would like to have the people come off [the ship]. I would like to have the people stay. Because I like the numbers being where they are!”
What a sickening & disgusting rationale used by Trump so he won't look bad: Numbers are more important than sick and perishing Americans!
300
@I Gadfly Just this morning he's shouting that it's fake media and oil price war that is causing the market selloff. He's an imbecile as, apparently, are most around him. I'm sitting at my kitchen table watching my retirement funds--and I'm already retired, so that's all I've got--disappear, yet I'm to be cheered by the "Good news for consumers...gas prices will go down." I repeat, imbecile. I don't have enough life left or gallons to pump to make up for the losses.
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@I Gadfly:
If we learn nothing else from the virus, we must understand this:
trump considers everyone else perishable !
6
This drive through testing is a great idea that the US needs to put in place. It is fast and will protect regular hospital staff and patients. https://youtu.be/v5jnV_BT_mw
18
@karen roseme :
yes, but so far only about 1600 people in the U.S. have been tested, due to faults with the test kits.
1
This is a great idea. We need to get these in place. Drive through testing would protect hospital workers and regular patients.
https://youtu.be/v5jnV_BT_mw
8
Trump had two options in front of him when Covid-19 surfaced in China last year and was recognized as a potential global threat:
Rise to the occasion, or Crash and burn.
Unfortunately, despite the great "natural abilities" he shares with his late genius professor uncle, Trump wasn't quite competent enough to even give the first option a go.
77
@Don Blume He bankrupted all his businesses and I have only been waiting for him to bankrupt the country. Sad to say for all of us, this may be when he does it.
1
May be wise to be proactive and start the social distancing process everywhere in the US, despite it seeming Draconian. Maybe we should urge the cancellation of large events outside of work and school for the next few weeks. Would probably sink our local economies, but may be a safer alternative to eradicate or slow it at a faster pace.
26
I have been a physician for more than 45 years. That's only one reason I am almost alarmed that I have been unable to get ANY response to an important question -- and I have communicated my query to various experts, to the Feds, and to my state health department:
Where exactly did the number of days in the corona virus-19 quarantine (14) come from? In other words, is 14 days some back-of-the-envelope guess-timate made by a concealed group of experts based on their collective gut feelings? Or is 14 days an Evidence-Based quarantine span deduced from research-grade, actual patient data? Where Are The Data? How was 14 days chosen?
How can any of us be assured that each person "graduating from quarantine on day 14" is extremely unlikely to be shedding live virus after he/she returns to the real world? The most important word here is the adverb "extremely".
Graduating from quarantine ideally should require that every person deemed "safe to go" must not only be symptom-free but ALSO must have had a negative laboratory test for the presence of corona virus-19 on, say, day 12 or 13. Unfortunately, we can all seriously doubt that this application of the lab test will be realizable now. It appears that we are stuck with the clinical impression of some examiner as the decisive criterion.
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@James T. Lee, MD
Good question: There are some empirical data used to arrive at the estimate, but it remains an estimate with a confidence interval. There have been observations (outliers) of up to 27 days.
The website worldometers.info has fairly good statistics, specifically the incubation page: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-incubation-period/
40
@James T. Lee, MD I have been wondering the same thing, it seems very arbitrary to me. I've seen (news) articles that report the incubation period is 2-14 days but also have not seen any reputable scientific or medical sources for this.
30
@James T. Lee, MD - I believe this is based on what they knew about SARS and MERS and applied it here as "likely". Not entirely reassuring. On the other hand I agree with other commenters here that in the US we're past the date of effective containment. The only reason we don't have larger #s of positives is because we are behind in testing.
57
It makes no sense that we should be advised, "for goodness sake don't go on any cruises," while we're only told to "think twice" before flying. If anything, flying forces people into even closer contact.
Is it just that a cruise is always discretionary, but that a lot of flying is for business?
This pandemic has already been made worse by putting business interests and the health of the stock market ahead of the health of people.
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@Mark Gardiner
The difference between flying and cruises is that flights last hours and cruises last days to weeks. Food on cruises is prepared on site, while food on flights is most frequently packaged.
38
@Theresa And further, the virus appears to be transmitted via droplets, it is not airborne. Meaning when an infected person coughs or sneezes, the virus lands on a surface and then the next person picks it up by touching that surface then touching their eyes/ mouth/ nose. The infection is not lingering in the air. So unless the person right next to you is sick, you're not likely to pick up the virus. Especially if you wipe down the immediate seat area and generally try not to touch your face during the flight.
On a cruise, people are walking around a lot so your odds of exposure are greatly increased. You are probably at greater risk of getting sick from being in the airport rather than the actual plane.
8
What does food prep have to do with anything? There has been no documented evidence of transmission via food.
4
We must have adequate tests to determine spread, contact tracing and the right containment procedures.
20
@Fancy Francie You appear to not yet apprehend the current state of the pandemic in the U.S. Yes, testing is important, but there is already far too much spread to effect contact tracing and individual containment, at least in major swaths of the nation. By the time today's cases are tested/verified and their contacts identified and found -- and there are not enough human or materiel resources to do this -- the number of cases will already have doubled, or more. Instead, our society must *shift* its resources away from containment and into mitigation. "Soft" mitigation means no meetings at work, for those who go to work, and hourly e-mails reminding you to wash your hands, and a hundred other things that together will *slow* transmission. "Hard" mitigation means enforced separation of humans from one another to further slow transmission.
18
The first thing that should be done is lock Trump and Pence away and don't let Trump have a cell phone.
Then real adults and doctors need to step up and tell us what really to do to slow this virus down and finally the most important thing to remember is what FDR said, the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
Lack of education and false information about this virus will be the real down fall and not the virus itself.
268
@BTO we listen to every word of Dr Fauci, in this article he said “maybe” but if you read it carefully without that word, or with what he probably wanted to say (“definitely”) we have answers for the communities with outbreaks already : Don’t gather. No movies. No religious congregation, and even if there’s no community spread (yet), if you’re vulnerable, start distancing right now. He’s warning that the best to hope for in some of these areas is mitigation to wait for a treatment without overwhelming ho Fauci is, to me, the main adult in the room. Pay attention to every word he says. He’s well known as an absolute truth-teller. If he gets fired for the truth we are doomed.
4
@BTO
I would recommend the same for his critics, who even in the face of a pandemic, cannot stop their incessant attacks on the president.
1
@AACNY
You're confusing acknowledging/critiquing his utter failure to lead with an "attack."
2
"Seventy of the center’s 180 staff members were out sick, but there weren’t enough test kits yet for them."
That is a terrifying piece of information. If these folks at Life Care can't get tested, even though they are sick and even after 16 deaths, then it's hard to have confidence that the numbers we see from the CDC mean anything at all.
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@Elinor
If people aren't tested, the number of recorded infections won't rise, which means the stock market will.
(This is literally what the Trump administration believes.)
40
I don’t understand why test kits cannot be ordered from suppliers, and manufacturing of same be ramped up to satisfy demand. Wouldn’t this be an area where money can be made by an enterprising manufacturer? Or are health insurance companies demanding restrictions based on their money needs? I have heard health insurance companies have huge incomes and probably cash supplies? Where do they fit in this picture? Why must federal government intervention be needed when kits should be ordered at the local level and staffs hired as needed? While Federal recommendation to get the kits would be welcome, can’t hospitals and local health departments take that initiative? I admit I don’t understand healthcare processes in our country. Why so much dependence on a Federal government, when we know this administration and everyone in it is amazingly stupid and incompetent, and has been for three years? Weren’t we told as climate change progressed, there would be new, more dangerous viruses that hadn’t been encountered before? Even with a Luddite government, weren’t health care providers concerned? I just have a lot of questions about the whole situation.
36
@Bill
Yet Trump's stupidity in handling this increasing crisis remains unchallenged by the Republicans in Congress.
15
First and foremost, the goal of accurately containing and treating cannot be attained without widespread reliable testing of the population for the virus. I believe our numbers of those infected is actually much higher than current numbers indicate because of the low number of individuals tested. We cannot reasonably react if we don't know the level of infection within the community. I seriously wonder how many have sought treatment for symptoms, has a flu test, told it was negative and treated for a cold or unnamed viral infection and sent home.
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@Hla3452 Please re-read. The experts already have known for a while that containment is impossible. Mass measures for mitigation must be effected.
5
@Hla3452 If you are right in your belief that the "numbers of those infected is actually much higher than current numbers indicate," then the epidemic is very mild. I agree
@Dennis Byron Except, of course, if untested people die and their deaths are wrongly attributed to pneumonia or some other cause.
9
The rest of the country should learn from Seattle, do not wait until it is too late. Practice social distancing but when there is a spike in cases (NY) there must be swift and strong calls for people who can stay home do so. And for businesses to encourage remote working and use of video conferencing. It sounds harsh, but a two week breather may significantly slow the spread and help minimize greater physical and fiscal loss. Kudos to Columbia, Yeshiva and Hofstra for making the tough call early.
132
The 3 week delay in test kit availability means that containment efforts are now futile. Mitigation is the best we can hope for. Priority should be given to protecting the elderly and vulnerable. Take care of each other, because this government is totally incapable of leading us out of this.
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@Patron Anejo The federal government has mostly failed. (Air travel restrictions probably bought some time, but the feds then badly squandered that "purchase.") But state and local governments should, can, and are doing things to save lives. And even the federal response evidences great work admixed with terrible malfeasance (and worse).
Other than that, I agree with you en toto.
20
@Patron Anejo
The federal failure was deep and has many parents. The administration, the entrenched bureaucracy, greed, and over zealous legislation.
In 1987 the WSJ wrote an article about deficiencies in the reading of PAP smears. Instead of narrowing targeting the problem with just enough intervention, the know-betters passed the Clinical Laboratories Improvement Act bringing all medical laboratory testing under complete federal regulatory control of three federal agencies: CDC, the FDA, and CMS.
As a result, the CDC’s failure to produce a test was compounded by the FDA blocking the hundreds of non governmental competent to test from legally doing so and importation of the WHO test was banned.
It is what I have seen with dysfunctional FEMA responses to hurricanes, except that FEMA’s role was always limited and did not close off every work-around.
Basically we sovietized healthcare regulation and got Soviet results.
8
@KBronson
If the Sovietized government can't do anything, how come the Chinese Communist government has been turning out 1.5 million test kits a week, and had them in time for a strategy of containment to work?
After Trump, the person with ultimate responsible for creating test kits was Alex Azar, a former president of Eli Lilly, who is as free-market as you can get.
In January, instead of using the WHO/Berlin test, which 60 other countries were using, to contain the spread of CoV with contact tracing, the U.S., under Trump and Azar, decided to create their own test, and contract it out to private partners.
Now, Trump's strategy of containment and closed borders can't work. The coronavirus cat is out of the bag.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/06/coronavirus-testing-failure-123166
How testing failures allowed coronavirus to sweep the U.S.
The Trump administration’s decision to forgo a World Health Organization test and create its own had fateful consequences, experts say.
By JOANNE KENEN
Politico
03/06/2020
9
It is amazing how little NYT readers seem to know about past viral "pandemics". To put things in context the 2009-2010 H1N1
infestation, first case in Mexico,caused nearly 600,000 deaths worldwide, 60,000,000 U.S. infections and nearly 13,000 U.S. deaths.
Compared to date, COVID-19 has caused 3000 deaths worldwide, 500 U.S. infections and 22 U.S. deaths. The media needs and wants maximum angst and they are certainly trying to create panic with minimum data.
Absolutely we should be be concerned enough for our own health and that of our fellow citizens to be proactive; but do not let the media cause us undo stress. Keep vigilant and stay rational
10
@Natalie
In fairness.. there was no vaccine and no community immunity for the 2009/10 H1N1 pandemic either.
What is different though is COVID-19s data on mortality rates suggests it is 100 times as deadly as the 2009/10 H1N1 flu.
The reason we need to ignore @
clarity007 soft pedaling for concerns of public health and safety here is because COVID-19 is more contagious (2.5) than the 2009/10 H1N1 (1.8), and given that it is 100 times more fatal and is clearly broken out of containment in the US now, we can expect to see infection rates at least as high as we saw with 2009/10 H1N1 before it runs it's course or vaccines stop it in it's tracks next year.
COVID-19 will be a nightmare compared to H1N1 of 2009 for both Americans and the American healthcare system. And @
clarity007 comparing end of outbreak data with H1N1 (or any seasonal flu outbreak) to early outbreak numbers for VOVID-19 is irresponsible and does not help people prepare for what could be a much worse outcome over time.
@clarity007 The H1 N1 pandemic began in April 2009 and the first vaccines were available in October of that year.
@clarity007
It is venomous to present inaccurate data in comments in the context of the H1N1 209-2010
Actual data from CDC for the US:
CDC illness and death estimates from April 2009 to April 2010, in the US are as follows:
CDC estimates that between 43 million and 89 million cases of 2009 H1N1 occurred between April 2009 and 10 April 2010. The mid-level in this range is about 61 million people infected with 2009 H1N1.
CDC estimates that between about 195,000 and 403,000 H1N1-related hospitalizations occurred between April 2009 and 10 April 2010. The mid-level in this range is about 274,000 2009 H1N1-related hospitalizations.
CDC estimates that between about 8,870 and 18,300 2009 H1N1-related deaths occurred between April 2009 and 10 April 2010. The mid-level in this range is about 12,470 2009 H1N1-related deaths.
So, in reality, fatality rates not unlike other seasonal flu. However.. what was unique about the 2009 outbreak is that the H1N1 strain was novel and hence there had been no prior vaccine for it, not general immunity built up in the community.
Source: https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/estimates_2009_h1n1.htm
Further.. the mortality rate of the 2009/10 H1N1 settled at ~ 0.03%... two orders of magnitude lower than COVID-19 to date, and actually lower mortality than some seasonal flu outbreaks over the last two decades.. and remarkable considering it was a novel new strain with no immunity in the community and no vaccine at the time.