This guy makes me insane. Victim and whiner. It’s not his fault he’s in a bad situation? Yes it is! Grow up. He took loans to be a teacher. What did he think he was going to earn? Did he have a plan?
He is an example of this taker society that makes me dislike Bernie. I am not here to support or erase his bad choices. I’m older, employed, make good money and have no debt. I drive a 1995 car w a cassette deck and work hard to save for retirement. This guy wants a new car w heated seats? Really, Grow up. Good grief.
213
@Meg
Excellent comment
29
I have so many conflicting reactions to this profile. Regarding student debt: I'm still paying mine off and it has been a slog. I suppose a part of me would feel resentful if a bunch of younger folks have their loans forgiven. Why would anyone have signed for a loan they didn't intend to pay back? But when I think back to when I signed on that dotted line, I remember how it seemed like there wasn't a good alternative, because I needed to stay in school and finish. I was an adult on my own with a job and a community around me; relocation wasn't feasible. So I do understand. Maybe we need a Jubilee Year - forgive all the loans and start fresh.
What is becoming clear to me in middle age is the huge difference it makes to have had a family that helped one financially. All the upper middle-class class folks I know had parents who helped them pay for college, or buy a house, or buy a car, or left them money when the parents died. Or all of that.
FWIW, Some of the teachers and nurses I know make pretty decent salaries.
257
It took me a long time to pay off my student loans. But I also had government loan advisors that did just that : advised.
24
@Flaneuse A huge student debt has become a norm in America. It's a symptom that is caused by excessive spending in defence rather than on education. Rally on a major cut of defence spending. Why should America still want to dominate the world when she can ill afford it?
Cut defence spending by half and not only will there be more money for education ie less loans, there will be plenty left for her crumbling infrastructure.
65
@FrazierCrane Another powerful reason for the increase in student debt is that tuition has risen far faster than the rate of inflation for decades. For example, when I graduated college in 1980, the tuition at my school was $4,970, or $15,560 in today's dollars (computed at usinflationcalculator.com). However, the actual tuition for the 2019-20 academic year at my school is $56,058, an increase of roughly 3.6 times the actual inflation rate. Is it any wonder that kids without sufficient family resources or non-loan financial aid come out of school with astronomical, unmanageable loan debt?
76
Life is all about choices. I'm surprised that this couple have not chosen to take advantage of public universities in Michigan or Wisconsin. Nursing degrees at Wisconsin technical colleges are affordable, and students often get grants to pay for their B.A.s after the initial two years. The $100,000 student debt most likely was from a private college and could also be offset with an agreement to work in high need areas. Wisconsin has a nursing shortage, as well as a teaching shortage. I am skeptical that this young man could not find a teaching job in the Madison area that pays more than work at a tire store. As a retired teacher in Wisconsin, I know there are high paying teaching jobs in my state. A low credit score wouldn't matter. What's more, high schools teach young people financial literacy classes, precisely to avoid the trap of high interest debt. Perhaps choosing a private college was not wise. But teachers in high need areas often have student debt offset. I think there's more to this story than the reporter discovered. I have seen many students do well who came from similar challenging backgrounds. Sometimes individuals like this young man just don't seek help in guiding them through the difficulties of young adulthood. There are many caring educators and guidance counselors out there to help. Promises by politicians cannot offset poor decisions made by individuals. It's not too late for this couple to overcome their past mistakes in judgment. I wish them well.
275
True.
If he’d been aware of opportunities to help him put his loans in order...
I’m pulling for him and his family, convinced that he stands a better option with a Democrat in office than Trump.
19
@Margaret i agree. But the problem is that they give you these loans when you are so young you cant adequately make these decisions. Noone would give such a loan to an 18 year old to buy a car etc
29
@Brian Brennan
I well understoood at 18 that I couldn't afford to pay back the student loans I was offered. I went to my state university instead. There I discovered many other students who made the decision I did. There is far more information out there now to estimate your future income. You can easily see how big your loans will be and how your future salary in your field would match out. This nurse is just the old familiar story of wanting to go to a college she cannot afford.
Right now I know 2 women-both going to nursing school right after high school. One is working part time and going to the community college. She will leave with minimal debt if any at all. The other chose a 4 year private college she can't afford but wanted the "college experience". Sorry at 18--you are an adult
35
The similarities between Trump and Sanders voters is they all say they feel victimized by someone or something that they never name, and their incredible self-absorption.
336
I don’t know if it’s fair to lump all kinds of voters into one category. I voted for Bernie in 2016 (and yes—still voted for Hillary in November), and voted for him again last week in my state’s primary (and yes—will vote for Biden if he is the nominee). I was fortunate enough to come from an upper middle-class family. I got a stellar education at a top university, and thanks to my parents’ position in life, graduated debt-free without any government assistance. They gave me a brand new car when I graduated. My job doesn’t have an amazing pay, but I’m comfortable and can afford multiple luxuries: international vacations, new clothes, nights out, etc. while still putting much of my income into my savings. I am not relying on a Bernie presidency to save ME from anything.
I’ve definitely worked hard, but I recognize the unusual privilege that has snowballed to bring me where I am today. The unofficial campaign slogan that you hear at all Bernie events is “Are you willing to fight for someone you don’t know?” I drive past the ever-growing homeless tent city in my town and think of how much our system as failed them. How many of them were given the same opportunities as me? What makes me so special as to deserve those opportunities? The heart of Bernie’s campaign is the exact opposite of self-absorption.
70
I am a Sanders voter, and I am voting for people I don’t know. I don’t see myself as a victim. Sanders is no savior, just a politician who supports policies that make citizens’ lives better. The vast majority of people who would most benefit from Bernie’s policies are probably not informed about current existing social programs that exist to help them. I vote also, for Bernie, to give prisoners their voting rights because I believe it is wrong to strip them of their voting rights.
Additionally, as a female Sanders supporter, I feel erased in this media narrative about the immature “Bernie Bros”. In contrast to that stereotype, I know many women who support Bernie because of his family-friendly policies. My friends who feel they may or may not realistically have children because of the cost of childcare compared to wages earned and the dent it makes in a career. We all know how women provide so much unpaid labor. I support Sanders platform because I believe women’s lives and freedom will be helped immensely if we had a president who fought for six months family leave and universal pre-K. So many aspects of gender inequality are improved by these programs (including the wage gap and happiness levels). But no one talks about the quiet women Bernie supporters!! We are here, but perhaps forgotten.
“They all say..” collapses thousands of very different people into one stereotype. The idea that someone could support Bernie and support Trump is mind-boggling to me.
48
Wow. I'd say there's more self absorption from people like yourself who want to keep everything in the hands of the ones who already have it. Sanders supporters, every single one I have met, want a better life for all. Not just themselves. but hey, yeah, they're the ones who are self absorbed? Seriously. So many people not listening to the point, underlines the actual point perfectly.
43
This kid was failed by his teachers, and to a degree by society. But all of my sympathy for vanished as soon as he started lamenting being unable to buy a car with "heated seats."
Way, way too many people just make terrible personal decisions when it comes to setting intelligent financial priorities. And usually it is the obsession with having a new car that is the killer. I have neighbors working at Target who must be spending 1/3 of their income or more on their cars. This fellow and so many others need a bit of a reality check. Sanders can't fix these problems.
475
@Carter O'Brien
So you think this couple is better off for having $24,000 in medical debt, and $100,000 in student loans?
Life-long penury builds character?
As for a reality check ... nobody needs it more than the well-heeled.
67
@Carter O'Brien I was wondering about the "new car with heated seats" myself. I drove a car without heated seats for years. You can buy a heated car seat that plugs in to your car for pretty cheap- my kids bought me one for a Christmas present. You can also have a car seat heater installed in your car (which I did on my Honda Fit)- it cost around $250. So, while I have sympathy for their debt, I don't understand how you can just borrow $100,000 without giving some thought about exactly how you will repay it and I also think they need to do some work to find budget friendly alternatives to be able to afford more of what they want. Life always requires compromise- it's rarely a matter of "I want this specific thing and will not accept any substitutions".
81
@Carter O'Brien I agree with your assessment. He says he has no extra money for anything, but buys his wife flowers to keep her from running off with a rich doctor. When my wife and I started out, we had no money. Neither of us was buying gifts for the other until we had resolved our pressing financial needs.
54
This is the type of people Sanders seems to draw. They don't really care about the future of the country they just want someone to promise them the moon.
If he was so worried about his future why is this the first time he voted. Why isn't he concerned about the people in Congress and his state legislature who represent him.
His privilege is oozing out of him and the fact that he's fine voting for a man who will make 10's of millions of people's lives worse if his preferred candidate doesn't win the primaries stinks of privilege.
84
just because i don’t have debt doesn’t mean i want to pay for anyone else’s debt. i manage my finances carefully to avoid debt, i buy everything paying up front, do i get medal now?
258
@ben
Currently, we pay for corporate debt and decades-long war debt. (All in, the Iraq War alone is estimated to come to $7 trillion.) Wouldn't it be more responsible to use our tax money to pay for debts that 1) help improve people's lives; 2) improve the health of the economy? Personal example: My husband's employer has to throw in $17K a year for his health insurance. If we had Medicare for All, he'd see some of that money raise his salary, which we could then afford to spend. It's a virtuous circle, for all of us except the very rich who've been gaming the system my entire life. I'm 41. I think of this as the 39th year of the Reagan administration.
132
@ben - Not sure what tax bracket you're in although chances are good that you're already paying for other's debts under Trump's administration. Those others would be fossil fuel companies, farmers, transportation and the cost of the Trump families weekly trips to Mar-A-Lago as well as the teams of secret service personnel who are tasked with protecting them. Often at Trump properties although the public aren't allowed to see those bills. Also remember that many are only one accident or cataclysmic event like a hurricane, floods, fires or pandemics away from financial ruin. Wouldn't it be comforting to know that your government has your back as insurance in case you happen to be the unlucky one in that event?
86
@ben ya but you know what you’re paying for? 100% of Trumps trade war, including those tariffs.
You’re also paying for bailing out those banks who swindled people out of their life savings and kicked them into the street.
You’re also paying for the $2 trillion tax cuts for the rich.
That’s where your taxes are going, and handful of people who were rich to begin with. And, sure, they create jobs, but wages have been stagnant for decades. It’s currently 0.6% under trump and his predecessors haven’t been any help. That’s what’s so appealing about bernies big promises, and yangs, and other progressives. It’s why so many people are pessimistic no matter who they vote for, left or right. We’ve been left behind. Glad you’ve found a way to stay afloat in the system, but you’re not the only person who lives in this country and there’s a lot more people (almost half the country living at the poverty line) suffering. We used to stand up for our countrymen, now it’s “me me me” mentality. Get over it and stand up with your fellow men and women.
97
“But I guess I still don’t view Trump as Hitler either.”
That is where Mr. Michelz lost me. I DO view Mr. Trump as the biggest threat to the American democratic republic we have ever face. And as the autocratic, authoritarian fascist that he is. In other words, Hitler.
I certainly hope Mr. Michelz did not get his college degree to become a history teacher. Perhaps he should get his money back for his college education (though not necessarily from the taxpayers). Because apparently he learned nothing.
20
Yeah, if you are looking for free stuff the rest of us have to pay for Bernie is your man!
10
The tone of this storey implies that being in debt and not having credit or a credit card is somehow unusual these days when it is more likely the norm. I am surprised that you didn't accuse Mr Michelz of being a communist!
Perhaps another NY Times headline lauding the amazing unemployment rate (reality: starvation wages) or the incredible economy (reality: full time workers sleeping in cars and living on the street) is needed.
It is clear that the NY Times is firmly entrenched with the Corporate America / DNC machine.
8
Anyone in Michigan who doubted the truth of statistics from 2016 about 12% of Sanders voters in the primaries voting for Trump in the general election should read this piece. It explodes the myth that only Republicans vote against their own interests and the interests of every other American in crucial election years.
By fostering the politics of grievance, has Mr. Sanders helped Mr. Michelz? Clearly not. On the contrary, Mr. Sanders has led Mr. Michelz to think that help for him lies with voting for Nazis. Sanders has inspired him to marginalize himself and line himself up with White Supremacists, fundamentalist Christians, homophobes, misogynists, antisemites, climate change deniers, xenophobes, antiabortion nuts, and enemies of the earth and sky.
The 47,000 Bernie supporters in the 2016 Michigan primary who then voted for Trump exceeded his 17,000 vote margin of victory here. We are the only state surrounded by the Great Lakes, Donald Trump is killing any funding to save the Lakes from municipal sewage dumping, and Mr. Michelz proposes to reelect him.
At this basic level, any Trump voter is the same as any other. I hope Mr. Michelz changes his mind, but doubt he will. His problems are real. Democrats will work to address them after we beat Mr. Michelz's intended candidate in November.
12
I went from welfare to a nice paying job. My student loans were paid off last year after ten years of paying.
Kinda tired of hearing how hard life is and that people still need their mommies after they get to be around 30 to pay for everything.
15
Proof that many Americans on both sides of the aisle just aren't very bright.
12
Just voted for the first time at age 25?? He cooled somewhat on Sanders after Yang came along?? Let me guess...UBI??? And now, as the actual election approaches, he's thinking about maybe voting for trump...The author could have deleted the back story. Most Americans have their own financial struggles, and certainly we can do better, but this guy wants people to pull out their handkerchiefs for him, and I'm not feeling it. Bottom line seems to be that he wants to claim his privilege, and he'll support anyone who helps him do that. No deep thinking here: trump may be his guy after all, because I have a feeling he has a leaning toward feeling persecuted and unappreciated. I don't think it's the rich that bug him as much as his desire to be more like them. Perhaps the "others" that trump attacks...immigrants, black people, etc...are more in line with his feelings..After all, he doesn't view trump as "Hitler or anything." He wants more for himself, period. Trying to portray him as some sort of justice warrior really isn't part of this story.
16
I am sick and tired of the NYT running articles like this. These entitled straight white children can't see beyond their own sandbox. VOTE. VOTE. VOTE. VOTE.
Even if they throw a tantrum because their own candidate didn't get the nomination, they need to vote for the person who will least hurt them. The answer is very clear in this election.
VOTE. VOTE. VOTE. VOTE.
24
This kind of despair elected the Nazi's in Germany and resulted in Hitlers appointment as chancellor. Bernie is on point but doesn't have much of a record of actually getting anything done. Biden with the push coming from Bernie's candidacy would be able to get more of Bernie's policies done than Bernie actually could.
16
Not sure the NYT left out the medical issue or why he really thought he would make a lot of money with a teaching degree
5
How to win votes? Just promise people free things.
Free medical care.
Free college.
Free housing.
Free food.
Free cars.
Free clothes.
Yippee!!!
And where will the money come from? Anywhere but from me.
Yay!
10
There is no reason for this man to vote from Trump as Trump views guys like him as losers and will do nothing for him.
10
It is pathetic to see this millennial loser couple whine about their fiscal irresponsibility. And then they hope uncle Bernie will help them get their student loans to be forgiven. Who in their right mind would sink one hundred grand into nursing school? One can get that degree online for a fraction of the price she paid. I can’t even begin to address the husbands situation. The poor me generation, way worse than the previous me too generation. At least they had some smarts.
14
No one’s life will change if Biden is elected? Mr Micheltz is indeed immature
15
This? This is representative of the American electorate? Has he run the algorithm of Bernie having to get congress to implement all the free stuff producing bills? And won’t? He was educated as...a teacher? Key component of this lunacy: Rush Limbaugh...and you know very well: Rupert Murdoch.
6
Yep. There's lots of sob stories. Perhaps Bernie can explain exactly what the tax rates will be for every single income level - something he has been unwilling to do. To me, my cousin has a difficult life too. She graduated medical school, and then after 3 years of internship and residency she is making $150,000 a year. She now has to pay off 8 years of education and has two kids who's future college she will have to pay for. She, like Mr. Michelz also drives an old car (sans heated seats too). How much more will Mr. Sanders tax my cousin to pay for Mr. Michelz tough break? 10% more? 20% more? Because I don't believe the nonsense that "the rich will just pay for climate change policies, health care, HUD, free college, food stamps, etc" So who will? My cousin? Tell us Bernie.
10
I read this and became incredibly frustrated. I cannot understand the lack of ownership by Mr. Michelz for his situation. He was raised in Michigan, a state with many public colleges that are far cheaper than the small private out-of-state one in Minnesota. *He* picked the college; *he* picked the major, *he* decided to get married. Why didn't they wait until they saved more money? Also, inner cities are offering top salaries for teaching in certain areas - why isn't he pursuing that? He's good with his hands - any thought of becoming a full mechanic and making good money? We live in an average middle-class neighborhood; the richest guy here is a *plumber* with his own business. A college education does not guarantee you a high-paying job. Mr. Michelz needs to get over himself and start looking in the mirror to find out why he's in this hole instead of looking at Mr. Sanders for a miracle. We have a 3.5% unemployment rate; if he wants a better paying job he can certainly find one.
24
Anyone who would vote Trump and allow him to choose two more SCOTUS justices, lock children in cages, gut medicare and social security, squander funds on a useless wall, undermine all our environmental protections, and support a racist and xenophobic agenda, is simply not a progressive. Just admit you’re a Republican who doesn’t want to repay your student loans.
17
The USA has a high percentage of educated people and the best colleges in the world. The high cost of college is directly attributed to those who run the colleges, LIBERALS. Why should we go more liberal and ruin them completely
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/07/the-10-most-educated-countries-in-the-world.html
1
You can default on everything but student debt. Now why is that?
The cost of electronics always quickly plummets but the cost of education keeps going up. Now how can that be if it has been the electronics that has made it possible to shave the cost off of everything?
Now, during Corona, you can and sometimes must study at home, which actually allows for the cost of schooling to go down due to the increased scale of students being taught, but somehow, that which is true in every other single business sector, is not true when it comes to education. Why is that? Could it be that universities are fixed, crooked, and greedy? Or are they just plain stupid and ignorant?
And what about the government? The students should be getting better paying jobs after graduation to pay more tax. Win-win! But the government wants to double-dip. They want taxes first (via high cost/borrowing) and they want taxes later too! Always hungry!
No wonder Bernie is so attractive and no wonder the whole team of good ol’ boys and girls out in politics and media don’t want him around!
1
I agree with Mr. Michelz that he would be immature if he votes for Trump because he thinks the Democratic Party treated Sanders unfairly. He needs to realize that there will be many dirty political tricks played by the Trump campaign, and their allied Russian bots and agents who will be playing up that very narrative in order to split the Democrats and get people like him to vote for Trump. I hope Mr. Michelz is not that much of a sucker.
6
Nice to see so many commentators who think the indebted are “losers” and leeches. Have fun waving goodbye to your retirement accounts in the next few months, boomers . . . then you’ll be asking someone to bail you out.
7
Want to make college free? Ok then tell me how you also plan to put a moratorium on new construction, a cap on number of administrators and administrative salaries, including in athletic departments. I’d be really interested if you threw in banning the NCAA.
Free tuition is a stupid bandaid solution. It treats symptoms - surely felt strongly by some people - but we should look for better thinking and sustainable solutions that get at the root cause from our leaders. If supporters actually did their homework they’d feel the same way about free tuition as they do about the ACA - propping up a rotten system. The fact they don’t says all I care to know about them and their fervently wished for and entitled “revolution”.
2
A lot of bad choices for this poor guy..
He should not compound it by not voting for Biden ..
Get of the Midwest Rust Belt for gods sake..
10
This guy has legitimate problems, but he’s also so deeply ignorant of everyone else’s problems that he would throw everyone else under the bus if he doesn’t get what he wants. That is my problem with Sanders supporters in a nutshell.
17
Voting for free stuff! If he ever makes any money the taxes Sanders imposes will take that earned money away. This guy will be a victim forever! A democrat voter forever!
2
Please tell us, is there a single country on the face of the earth which has freely and honestly elected a socialist president? Please tell which one.
2
When Mr. Michelz looks at Bernie Sanders he "sees real change." But when I look at Bernie Sanders I see no change, because Sanders does not tell us how the change will be implemented. It's more like promising you the world with no plan as how to do it. Make me president first, then I will tell you how it will be done. Sanders has no plan. He promises free healthcare for all, free college education for all that want it, free housing, expanded Social Security, cancelation of all medical and college debt, and don't forget guaranteed jobs for everyone that also pay well. Pie in the sky baloney, and if you are voting for that, I fell sorry for you because you are very desperate.
9
Where does the NYT find these uniquely unsympathetic individuals? Are they really this selfish and ignorant? Do they really say these things? Do the journalists have a sense of humor?
Kid has had some hard knocks, for sure, and comes from an awful-sounding family. But he's a white male in America with a college degree. It's a shame teaching pays so poorly; it's more of a shame that this young man is so stuck. His wife is making decent coin at a sensible job. Why doesn't he go to nursing school, or become a respiratory therapist or x-ray tech?
I certainly agree we need healthcare for all and cheaper education, but if that's what this guy wants and he's considering voting for Trump...there are no words.
12
I don’t like Biden either and prefer Sanders, BUT, as a member of the LGBT community it is so selfish and unconscionable for people to say they won’t vote for Biden if he is the nominee. People’s lives are at stake. See past the end of your own nose! Please!
17
29 year old first time voter! Jeeez! Hard to feel sorry for him.
11
A nice profile of a 29 year old child.
15
I paid all of my student debt off and I am 100% for all debt forgiveness. This is a stupid system -- requiring workers to take on debt so that they can go on to be exploited for their trained labor by corporations.
Just put a transaction tax on stock trades and use that to fund universal public college education. That will be good for workers and take some of the unfairness out of high-speed trading.
This is so easy to fix, but of course we won't do it until something collapses.
5
I'm surprised how many stock, bond and derivatives traders are commenting on this article. Or maybe you just haven't read Bernie's plan to finance higher education? https://berniesanders.com/issues/free-college-cancel-debt/
1
A vote for Biden is a vote for continuing the ripoff of everyone but the top1-5%. When the banks stole houses Biden, Obama(and Pelosi and the rest of the "centrist" Dems) printed money to bail out the crooks while millions were evicted losing the only wealth they had. Yes, Putin's lap dog is a racist, has no respect for the Constitution, is mentally unfit, and, of course will gleefully appoint more rapist judges, but as Mr Michelz makes clear, that is not enough to persuade us to vote for more of the same old same old. Born with defective vision (pre-existing condition) I support Medicare for all because it and briefly Medicaid when it was more generous,are the only medical coverages I could ever get. As to student loans, they should simply be written off,and college education should become fully free as are K-12.
In CA, I have the luxury to vote 3rd party as I did in 2000 because the GOP is very weak here. If enough of us make that threat, maybe the Dem bosses might wake up.
3
29 and his first time voting. This is shameful.
12
So it is my responsibility to alleviate the debts of this couple?
5
Moderate Democrates self proclaimed standards for addressing health care education and coorporate interest define them as nothing less than 'crypto Republicans' !
2
I think this is one of the only truly neutral pieces the NY Times has carried on Sanders, and of course, it isn't about him but centers on the why of his young, distressed supporters.
What: no images of Bernie's dandruff? What's wrong with the editors here?
Thank you Sabrina Tavernise, and good luck in your new job search.
1
How ignorant and selfish. Too lazy and ignorant to discover the direct link between voting Republican/conservative and the bottom 90% getting shafted in every way from crushing school loan debt, rising medical costs, crumbling public schools, lower real wages, etc. Too lazy and selfish to vote unless he thinks it will directly benefit him. Still too ignorant and selfish to see how Trump is making things worse for everyone in all the same ways (tax breaks for the rich, less money for the rest of us, more de-regulation which leads to more health problems at the same time more people can't afford health care, etc). Do you want to know WHY this country is so much worse for all of us now? It's not because of the Republicans or the establishment Democrats or the rich people who buy them in order to make themselves richer and more powerful. It's because of people like Mr. Michelz who HELP THEM hurt all of us by not voting or by voting for the 'burn it all down' candidate if they don't get what they want regardless of the fact that it will hurt all of us even more! At least they are reaping what they sow when they continue to get hurt. The rest of us are being hurt when we were not selfish and lazy and took seriously our obligation to inform ourselves and to always vote for the candidate who will do the most good for the most people.
9
So you racked up debt and now you want to the the rest of us to pay your bills. Interesting how you only got involved in politics to benefit yourself. Here’s another idea cut your spending get another job and pay your own way. Remember, ask not what your country can do for you ask what you can do for your country
4
I feel very sorry for those great young people who fall for the Sander's rhetoric. It'd be great if revolution could be achieved at the ballot box, but in that sense every vote is a validation of the same system, and the inertia of it would soon dispell any revolutionary impulse. Its a case of a new tail on the donkey, ie the trotskeyite grab bag of attractive issues that bring in his supporters. If he truly cared beyond his own narcissistic dissatisfaction he'd be advising them that slow broad movements (ie the sentiments that he's subjourning) achieve lasting change while passion will surely be long gone. He doesnt bother building strong alliances, and he'll never acknowledge defeat or his role in it. He ffked up the last election and he's doing the same again.
4
I think this story is deceptive. Mr. Michelz was orphaned when his dad died when he was 13 -- his mom got SS Survivor Benefits for him, any siblings AND HERSELF -- for at least 5 years. That is a lot of money. What happened to it? it should have been more than enough to live on -- plus most people with kids have INSURANCE. They should NOT have lost the family home. Something big is missing in this story.
After his auto accident at age 18...he was just a kid, with no assets to attach. He could have very easily declared bankruptcy and walked away from that $24,000 medical bill. Why didn't he?
The article is very unclear on whether he finished college, or just has a partial number of credits towards a degree -- but it makes no sense that he says "working in a tire store pays more than teaching!" -- that is NUTS. And provably untrue. Teachers today make very excellent pay AND lavish benefits. There is no way a tire store pays more than teaching.
His wife is an RN. That is a very good paying job, more than enough to support BOTH OF THEM -- he could be staying home, raising their child if he wanted.
They could also move to a less expensive city, neighborhood or apartment -- $1600 is pretty price-y for an apartment.
There are a ton of things he could have done, or should be doing, to get out of debt and on with his life -- not whinging and thinking "some politician will come along and solve all my personal problems by giving me free money".
8
I love all these "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" comments from supposedly liberal NYT readers. There are a lot of people left behind by both Democrats and Republicans. Sneering at them isn't helping your cause.
8
THIS is reporting! thank you!
3
Here's how Mrs. Michaelz acquired $100,000 in student loan debt. A student loan is the only loan you'll ever receive without demonstrating your ability to repay it.
3
Almost everyone has some debt and no one helped me pay off my student loans or credit cards.
Vote Biden to get trump out and stop thinking burnie is going to give you all these freebies, it’s never going to happen.
Do the math for Pete’s sake.
6
Wait, after all that, he might vote for Trump? Did I miss something?
5
Brian Michelz made one mistake after another. He needs to get to a library and pick up some books on personal finance and he needs to do it tomorrow.
6
Mr. Michelz has been through an awful lot.
I hope life improves soon for him and his wife.
5
He doesn’t like deep inequality. Agreed. But he might vote for Trump, who had turbo-charged inequality with those disastrous tax cuts. ??? ?? ?!!!?
9
“Comments are moderate for civility”? They’re moderated for more than civility.
2
So Brian was about 25 when he first voted. To be honest, I don’t really care about him.
6
So, again, this is the 'after all, it's all about me' syndrome.
Also, this is why Trump is president:
While this guy has $3 dollars in his bank account NYT has articles about “white privilege” and “averting the male gaze” and “cis-whatever” and confusing passages of copy using They as a singular pronoun.
Perhaps noble causes for graduates of small private liberal arts colleges whose parents pay their rent while they blog for Vice and (yes BLOG) for the NYT...
But this guy has $3 in his bank account.
2
This is a sad story all right, sad that today’s young adults think life should be easy. Life is not easy, it can be unfair. I suppose most of you can figure out I’m a Trump supporter. My parents always told me to pick myself up when things wouldn’t go the way I wanted them to. So here is some advise from a deplorable- if you can’t make it working one job, work two jobs. I have had to do that off and on my whole life. For some reason this younger generation looks at you like you just cussed them out if you tell them to work two jobs. Why are you working at a tire shop if you have a college education? Find a better paying job- it may take some time but they are out there. Send out your resume to anybody who will take it. Oh, to the person who commented about “angry Trump Supporters “ where? I work with and associate with many Trump supporters and I don’t know any who are angry- the only anger I see is on The nightly news and it’s mostly antifa- Bernie supporters.
1
To everyone who is aghast if their taxes help someone out of debt, or help someone to pay their medical taxes, are you aghast when your taxes pay for wars? Most wars are unnecessary, line the pockets of the unscrupulous, and kill innocent civilians. How many of you wail “my taxes are paying for killing”?! Especially those of you “pro-life”?
4
It is accepted as only natural that wealthy donors and corporations should expect a tangible return on their political investments and votes. But when a struggling working class voter, like Michelz, asks what's in it for him, then all the moralizing nic-nacs get pulled out of the cupboard.
Think of the Supreme Court! Think of America's leadership in the world! Think of how awful Trump is and think of the higher good of electing Joe Biden! How can you be so selfish to think of yourself at a time like this?!
When help is denied anger follows. The same ol' nostrums and faux hopes that the corporate Democrats have been serving up for 30 years will not work this time around.
2
Sometimes yeah, I feel shame,” he said of his financial situation. “But I fight it because I know it is not of my doing.”
Really? You and you wife have no responsibility for taking out the loans?.... and you are now looking at Bernie (and every other tax payer)to wipe the slate clean.
I never went to college, but I achieved a lot better than working in a tire store; I bought a home and saved for retirement.
I suggest Mr. Michelz starts looking for a job with better career and pay prospects, instead of voting for someone who is 'selling' the idea of debt forgiveness.
5
Stop whining. Think of how Bret Stephens can stop worrying that Bernie will take his health insurance from him. Think of how much anxiety Bret will lose not having to worry about his taxes going up. Health care, education, for the rest of us? Who cares? Bret doesn’t. Why should you?
1
This kind of thinking that change is good brought us Trump.
4
Middle America is pointedly, willfully betraying its children, failing to recognize--or act upon the fact--that they have nothing, face worse, and will increasingly die early and miserable deaths. Unforgivable. As ugly in their smug determination to stave of real needed change as their sadsack Fox counterparts. We have two tribes now, both very stupid, manipulated by corporate interests, and the rest of us. Fortunately, members of those tribes constitute 40 percent of the electorate. A change is going to come. It may be too late--who cares whether Trump OR Biden sees us over the precipice. But a change is in the offing. If Bernie is denied, for starters, we have a rising third party in days not months. It is conservative Democrats who hold us all hostage at the moment, not Donald Trump. They are more conservative than Republicans were in the 1970s. American liberalism is morally and historically dead.
3
Please get real, folks. Biden is far from perfect but he looks like the only one standing who can save us from the wreckage of DT. Please put aside all the sniping, underrmining, etc and devote yourselves to getting to the polls, you and many others, to vote BLUE BLUE. Think of what's at stake! the Supreme Court, just for starters.
10
Income inequality isn’t his problem. Bernie has not diagnosed his problem. Wrecking the country with “a revolution” isn’t the solution.
6
Does this guy not think that he's going to pay for the socialism that Sanders supposedly represents? Who does he think is going to pay?
He is deluded when he says "I have nothing to lose", since it is precisely people like him and his wife who are going to pay through the nose for Sanders' lunatic plans.
4
You know, there're always going to be stories about guys like Michelz. Some people get the breaks, some don't. Some people make the most of whatever opportunities they get. Some don't. Not everybody makes it. That's life. There's always going to be 'income inequality' in any capitalist system. And that's exactly what we are and have always been. And will always be. There's always going to be someone who has more than you. Get used to it. If it really bothers you ? Work harder. Work smarter, Be the guy with 'more'. Sanders is no Robin Hood. Rob from the rich, give to the poor. If he gets in, it's gonna be the 'middle class', as always, who get stuck paying his way.
7
Mr. Michelz, I have no problem with paying higher taxes to give you a hand up with your student loans. I understand that some really bad things happened in your life, and I am sorry for what you’ve gone through. But I have a major problem with your attitude. You don’t feel that you have any responsibility for your situation. Sorry, that’s not true. You made some decisions that did not work out, but you are responsible for making them and you need to learn from them. And not voting, sir, is another bad decision. How many candidates for Congress, the Senate and the presidency, who were interested in addressing healthcare, education and economic opportunity did you fail to support? Why did only Mr. Sanders’ unrealistic and empty promises get your attention? You didn’t bother to vote for Hillary Clinton, the woman whose demonization started when she worked to expand healthcare for Americans while her husband was President. Thanks to you, there’s a guy in the White House destroying the progress made on that front by the Democrats and the Obama administration. And you may vote for that guy this time if Sanders doesn’t get nominated? To show Biden that he’s not good enough for you? Forgive my frankness, but that’s another bad decision for which you will pay the consequences and for which only you are responsible.
17
As a fellow badger, I am ashamed of this "college-educated" man's" total lack of political knowledge. To think voting for Trump wouldn't be any worse than voting for Bide is sheer ignorance. Every policy that would help this family comes down on Biden's side. They want children ... to grow up in pure hellish conditions because T is doing EVERYTHiNG possible to make climate change an absolute disaster. As a former economics teacher, let me give him some useful advice: become far more politically informed!
12
He’s 29 and this is the first time he’s voted? Shame on him.
8
How can you reach the age of 29 and never have voted? Just because voting isnt compulsory doesnt mean you shouldnt.
7
Same as last time, if the Dems’ party machine is going to pull a Republican and cheat Sanders out of a nomination, I’d stay home.
If the party machine is going to rob people of their choice and push a corporations approved, interest groups favored, corrupt career politicians whose only qualification is ability to win Republican votes, I am not going to legitimize this farce by voting for her/him.
Why support and perpetuate a system that don’t represent the people? “He is better than Trump” isn't an legitimate argument; it’s like asking me to thank a thug for taking my wallet because the other thug would have stabbed me as well.
1
Yes, you have a great deal to lose. Saying a plague on both houses will get you absolutely nowhere. This guy went to college and emerged with such low-level analytical skills? I had an MA when I worked a sheet metal job to make ends meet. His job at a tire shop is probably more interesting. I eventually found good work and paid my bills. He probably will, too. Buck up.
5
What does it mean to vote for Cadet Bone-spur?
It's simple really: you're voting for a guy who doesn't care about you, your family, your financial status or your job status. He doesn't even care if you get sick and die, as long as he looks good to his base (the very people who have received little actual benefit from his incompetence).
Ultimately, people who vote for the Cadet simply want to "stick it" to liberals. If the house burns down in the process and you with it, well, so it goes!
7
Clearly a portrait of a man who does not see clearly.. Did he not realize he was taking on debt when he took out loans??
..-And anyone who thinks there would be no difference between a Biden presidency and four more years of Trump..must be living in some sort of alternative universe..
.. -- I hope this young man continues on, gets some good breaks..and sees things a bit more clearly..
5
If you are a Bernie supporter and Biden gets the nod, who do you vote for......remember there is a Supreme Court Justice ,Ruth Ginsburg who probably wants to retire or heaven forbid, she could pass on. Do you really want Republicans to have another Supreme Court Justice for the next 30 or so years. Not voting could be like a Trump vote, same for a write-in. Think carefully.
7
Bernie would have beat Trump in 2016, had he been the nominee. His is the only campaign that means real change and has such passionate followers that they’d shoot themselves in the foot and limp around four more years with Trump.
What does this young man and his wife have to lose if doesn’t vote for Biden? Four more years of the wretched Trump WH. Vote blue no matter who, young man. Quit digging yourself and the rest of us in deeper.
5
How incredibly selfish and small minded. Trump and his Republicans are destroying the US in all sorts of ways, especially the judiciary. I don’t mind Bernie all that much but he has yet to satisfactorily explain how he intends to pay for anything. And, assuming Bernie is elected, he won’t be effective because none of his plans would ever pass Congress. The Trump Republicans don’t care about raising the national debt so long as they get their tax cuts, with the poor making up the difference when entitlements are cut. But if Bernie even tries to implement one of his ideas, you can bet the Trump Republicans will scream no way because it would exponentially increase the national debt! Mr. Michelz is truly ignoring how Trump and his Republicans are shafting the lower and middle classes. Selfish all around I say.
3
One comment said "All of my sympathy for vanished as soon as he started lamenting being unable to buy a car with 'heated seats.'"
If you actually read the article, you would have noticed that Mr. Michelz wanted to buy this car for his wife to show his love. His wife is a nurse who is around doctors who make way more money. And she decided not to have baby at this time even both of them want to, because they are both in deep debt.
Ok, Mr. Michelz does not deserve your sympathy because he wanted to buy a car with heated seats for his wife. And his idea of voting for Trump over Biden is totally deplorable. But where is your anger when the billionaire, lifetime Democrat, ex-CEO of Goldman Sachs Lloyd Blankfein said he would vote for Trump over Sanders in November? If Mr. Michelz is not financially responsible, how about Goldman Sachs? Goldman Sachs dragged the whole country into deep recession in 2008, got a bail out with $10 billions tax payers money, then handed out $20 billion bonus (average $700,000 per employee!) in 2009.
Mr. Michelz' story is a sad story. But I am more saddened by some of the comments here. America learned nothing from Trump's 2016 victory. They never tried to understand the underlying problem besides blaming the deplorable Trump voters.
2
In November 2016, he (Brian Michelz) did not vote. Looking back, he does not regret it.
Will he vote in November?
If he thought Mr. Sanders had been treated unfairly by the Democratic Party establishment, “it’s possible I might just vote for Trump,” he said.
“That might be immature, that might be bad,” he said.
Even if Mr. Biden won against Trump, he said, millions of Americans will still be in poverty, schools will still be underfunded, “all the stuff they are blaming on Trump will still be there.”
But would he vote for Mr. Biden?
“You know, I don’t think I would,” he said. “Nothing against him as a person. But my life probably wouldn’t change if he became president. I don’t think other peoples’ would either. So, what’s the point ?”
---------
Like many Americans, Mr. Michelz lacks critical thinking skills.
His 2016 voter apathy and his 2020 succumbing to false equivalence hopelessness are precisely what allows America to continue to be repeatedly rigged rightward by Republican Reverse Robin Hoodism.
Real adults realize that elections rarely present great choices and one often has to settle for the lesser of two evils, however unsatisfying that may be.
Trump and the Republicans have enormous damage to the country and to Americans by raiding the treasury, attacking healthcare, gutting environmental rules, attacking science, facts and making political corruption great again.
This voter is tragically uninformed.
The GOP is in heaven; voter apathy is their best friend.
6
Centrist Democrats Say:
"Sanders voters are to blame for Clinton's loss; Trump is a disaster for them."
"Moderate democratic voters would sit it out if Sanders wins the Democractic nomination; what's the difference between him and Trump?"
Cognitive Dissonance Much?
2
A rare bit of relatively objective and insightful reporting from the New York Times. Thank you for letting the subjects in this story speak for themselves.
4
This is yet another reason why Biden will almost certainly lose to trump. Too much of the party is progressive now and a corrupt, milquetoast candidate won’t have their support. Go all in with Bernie, or lose to trump.
2
This is a typical story of people that made bad decisions in their lives ...
But someone else does not have to pay for your bad decisions, as unfortunate as they are.
My whole family worked hard, some came home 11pm working two jobs and their wives too, and had kids and still paid off their debts and never asked for forgiveness from the debt !
Because as a people if YOU make a mistake, then (so sorry) YOU have to fix that mistake ...
Government shouldn't be offering such debt probably but NOW that you took on that debt, the next generation has to understand that they got to do the right thing, because if YOU dont pay it off, then someone else will have to pay it off ...
And maybe thats what differentiates this generation from the last generation. Morally and responsibly, we we tought to always do the right thing to your self and YOUR fellow man ...
And maybe if people were more responsible to themselves and their fellow man, would they take food stamps or take a 2nd or 3rd or even a 4th job, rather than take from another person ?
The last generation were brought up that if YOU dont make good decisions or even things dont work out for you, we dont play the blame game or push responsibilities on someone else. YOU just take cate of it.
1
A quick google search reveals that Mr Michelz is a follower of conspiracy theories such as the FBI murdered MLK, and of Peter Joseph Merola, a peddler of 911 conspiracy theories and a Bernie supporter. Peter recently tweeted:
"Sentiment summary:
Vote for Trump= Let's continue burning this thing down quickly.
Vote for Sanders= Let's try to make changes; help reverse some of the damage, at least.
Vote for a "Centrist"= Again, let's continue burning this thing down, albeit more slowly than via Trump."
2
Mr. Michaelz (sp) is the epitomy of the problem. No matter who he votes for, he is still in debt. Did he not calculate what his loan would cost him when he took it out for his nursing degree? Perhaps he should get a second job and work with financial advisors to help him with his financial woes. At a very minimum...pick up a few shifts or get a second job for a bit. Writing this before I start my second job...
1
This couple makes terrible financial decisions and so now they want to elect a socialist who will force
taxpayers to throw money at them? Sorry, no thanks.
2
So what? This is just an anecdote about a couple in debt who want someone else to bail them out.
The lack of empathy in the comments, i.e. “I was downtrodden and have emerged victorious, so you should be able to also...” is discouraging. What part of Nothing to Lose don’t people understand?
6
No. You do not get your student loans vacated. I paid back mine and I am not willing to pay for yours. However, you should be allowed to refinance that loan, just like mortgages get refinanced.
You want to vote for Trump? I suggest you examine the work Education Secretary DeVos is doing. Do you think she is doing a good job for Public Education and Students in general?
2
Michelz is an example of what is wrong with our electorate. A cry-baby who says if I don’t get my way, I’ll either sulk (& not vote), or vote for the devil (Trump) just to play devil’s advocate. Bc they are young and have not experienced life or its struggles or had children or cared for aging parents. This is what happens when children do not receive civic education...just wait until they have to be a caretaker, a parent, anyone responsible for another human being...then they’ll be begging for help—good luck getting public assistance from the Republicans—they’ve already stolen the money we’ve actually earned and paid into for our Social Security and they are trying to say it’s not our money! The foxes are in the henhouse.
2
It’s truly remarkable to see all these top comments passing judgment on these people. Don’t empathize or understand, just cast them right into that basket of deplorables. No wonder we can’t keep this party together. And even less wonder that nobody under the age of 60 wants to join.
The stark reality is that for most people, life under Trump is largely indistinguishable from life under Obama. Same interest rates, same lousy pay, same unaffordable housing and healthcare.
People trying to survive in this world aren’t hanging on Rachel Maddow’s every syllable. They’re not reading the NYT (an ad for Rolex on this article - nice). They’re too busy working and trying to distract themselves from the constant anxiety that comes with indefinite debt peonage.
And when they do chance to glimpse our politics, what do they see? Trump raving madly. Pete Buttigieg exhorting eloquently about nothing at all. Trump Tweeting madly. Joe Biden mumbling about record players. James Carville frothing about something or other. It’s all facile nonsense.
That’s who Bernie is speaking to.
5
Heated seats is not absurd, considering many commenting support a man whose son rakes in $87K a month.
2
Bernie and his supporters need to look at the big picture and review how government works. Bernie can offer anything he wants on the stump, but it won’t necessarily be passed into law by congress, even if he is elected. Sorry, that’s life. What Bernie should do is what politicians always do at this point and what Elizabeth should do. Extract some progressive movement from Joe and then energetically support and endorse him. Remember the objective, people?
1. Hold the house.
2. Gain in the Senate or better yet take it.
3. Dump Trump and his sycophants and unethical chronies.
Then decide what can be achieved to benefit the working class/middle class in Term 1. It will never be a full list of what Bernie and Liz want, but it can be much better than we have now. Work collectively for it.
4. Make sure the VP choice is excellent since that person may likely become president in Term 1.
Any Bernie Bro or Liz supporter that sits this out if they don’t get their way is naive and ignorant. Full Stop.
2
If Trump offered to forgive Michelz’ debt, I bet he’d vote for him. He does not care who he votes for, except how it affects him. Of course, Sanders is promising something he cannot deliver, so he is voting for a pipe dream anyway.
Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country can do for you.
3
Mr. Michelz is 29 and he’s just now voting for the first time? Because he couldn’t be bothered until he was personally affected?
3
This guy's story, and his viewpoint on the presidential race, is chilling.
4
We need to hear more stories like this so that we can gain a better picture of the much maligned "Bernie bros".
1
His dad died? His mom’s house was foreclosed on? Crippled by student loans? Has a radar for real/fake people? Resents the bank bailouts? ... and Elizabeth Warren did not inspire him? Sorry, this guy is willfully deaf to the people who are speaking to his literal story.
Saddens me that he has had a tough life. I feel for him.
5
Sanctimonious pronouncements about how we can’t pay for Medicare For All or Freeing Student Debtors from Indentured Servitude are meant to sound adult, mature & realistic. But $738 billion a year for un-auditable Pentagon/Military Industrial Complex is sacrosanct. USA has gone so far to the extreme radical fascist right that the Once Grand Old Party literally ignored the founders dire warning about foreign interference in our elections essentially condoning it. Regarding Sanders supposed far left agenda FDR proposed what Senator Sanders is offering us today in 1944 Economic Bill Rights ensuring real freedom. That’s a traditional Democrat to me, not a neoliberal corporate stooge from Delaware the Senator from MBNA who cares more about corporations than people, it’s his entire record “and folks that’s the Gods honest truth” as Joe would say. If Bernie is a radical it’s because he’s “Not For Sale” to corporate lobbyists, you know, The Swamp. It’s not his Democratic Socialism that’s just Governing in the Public Interest that’s real Centrism because it benefits the common good. Political Capitalists seek profit from Public Service you know corruption. Phony Joe isn’t a fighter for the middle class that’s his con. He’s empathetic but after a career of service to the white male corporate power structure he isn’t the answer to the Orange Stain on our Whitehouse. The system is built to reward wealth not work. A great country invests in its people & infrastructure Conserves Nature too.
2
When I graduated from UC Berkeley, which was tuition-free in the late ‘60’s and early ‘70’s, I had $10,000 in government loans for living expenses. That was about the cost of three small BMW’s—pretty pricey cars then. But my school debt was at a low rate--about 2%-- and carefully figured for me to be paid off in 10 years. As a student, my health care had been paid by the university. I was given a “work study” job that moved me into a professional position that paid about $25,000 after 2 years. That yearly salary was the price of a home in the area. These homes now sell for about $1,400,000, many times a yearly salary.
My daughter’s undergraduate education cost over $200,000. At some point, I took out a Sallie Mae loan of $35,000 to help pay for it. After a few years I realized that I was caught in a scam where the payments never paid the loan off. I had been too busy paying the $50,000 a year to pay attention. The difference in the times—the Great Society when the government tried to help people and the Republican years when people were patsies to be used--became horribly evident.
If we can’t do better for our people, we are doomed. We should be helping young people toward productivity. We have become a callus and stupid country.
4
This is a childish behavior voting for Trump if you don’t get Sanders. One must consider the probability for a change in the right direction so if you might get some change it is truly better then no change or change for worse. This idea of „If you don’t help me I cut of my finger because I am frustrated“ won’t help.
5
I'm surprised how many active stock, bond and derivatives traders are commenting on this article concerned about Sanders' plan to make higher education affordable. Or maybe they never bothered to read his plan? https://berniesanders.com/issues/free-college-cancel-debt/
Bernie's not out to bankrupt the middle class. He's trying to grow the middle class.
3
The first time he voted was at age 29?
If you don’t vote you don’t get represented. That’s why they are called elected representatives.
“The group system I never participated in isn’t representing me.”
Yeah, no kidding.
4
Many people in the USA profess to be devout Christians. I think that one of the central tenets of Christianity is to ‘love thy neighbour’. However, judging by the harshness and the vitriol directed at this young man in these comments, I suspect that if Jesus were to come back and try to spread his message of love and compassion in contemporary America, he’d probably be denounced as a communist wacko.
I’m sorry, I know that as a Canadian it is not my business to comment on your electoral choices, but given the cruelty expressed towards this young man, I’m really not surprised you elected someone as toxic as Trump, and it honestly won’t be a surprise if you elect him again.
3
Lots of Biden supporters lecturing this guy about his situation. The statistics show he’s not alone. There is $1.6T in student debt and projecting it to haves 40% default rate in not too long.
Blame the government, the schools, the students or the society that pushes people to go to school without first getting a financial education, but we are where we are. This is a debt bubble and you can’t repossess the college degrees, so we’ll pay it eventually.
Why should this man care about your LGBTQ rights, your abortion rights, your Medicare or your bathroom privileges. What makes you so special?
2
To all those that say that Michelz and girlfriend should not have racked up college debt please read the NYT article on working class despair:
“Up and down the age spectrum, deaths of despair have been surging for people without a four-year college degree...”
It is a sad that some still insist telling on interested young Americans they are dumb or naive for getting a college degree.
Instead as a nation we should be asking why graduate student loans have 6% + in interest, or why the rich got a very expensive tax break or why some of the most profitable “American” companies pay NO taxes while students are being told we can’t afford any sort of student loan debt forgiveness.
How would u feel if you had to pay $800/month for 20 YEARS (or more) on student loans?
Bernie speaks truth to power and that is why the mainstream can’t stand him. Biden is a status quo politician and he will be savaged by Trump abt Hunter Biden in the debates. Regardless if he influenced his dad’s Ukraine policy or not, just the fact that Hunter is so entitled that he thought it OK to get paid millions of dollars just bc he was the VP’s son is disgusting and an example of everything that is wrong with American political life.
Since I was 18 I’ve always voted and always voted democratic - including for Hillary in 2016 but to be honest I’m not sure I can bring myself to vote for one more mealy mouthed establishment politician.
4
"I Have Nothing to Lose"
You've got plenty to lose. Check out what happens in other countries that implement socialism.
3
These are basic issues of justice. If the Democratic Party prefers to throw justice into the garbage can in order to play Machiavelli and choose what they believe is an "electable" candidate, then they deserve to lose (again).
I voted for President Obama twice, but voted Green in 2016 instead of voting for a corporate warmonger like Hillary. And if Biden is the nominee this year, the Greens can look forward to yet another vote for me. Even though I would vastly prefer to vote for a viable progressive.
3
This story doesn't add up. Why didn't he go to a community college or to a state college? Why $100k of debt for a nurse school? And now he is worried about not having headed seats in his car? This is ridiculous.
This person should take his own responsibility instead of accusing the society.
1
A vote for Biden is like a vote for Trump. Biden shown over last few week that he is unfit to debate against Trump. Trump is a savage and he will do no mercy to Biden. Biden also shown he is unable to handle the questions about Hunter and Trump is digging it right now. Now it’s on DNC leadership what they want - 4 more years under Trump? Right now it’s time to sit with Sanders and solve problems or get prepare for one more term under Trump
1
Of course this guy will vote for Trump if Bernie doesn’t get the nomination. The only difference between his attitude and that of various members of my extended family who are vocal Trump supporters, is that this dude wants a free ride. In every other way he’s the same as them.
I am not unsympathetic to his plight. But as Bernie asked recently, Are you willing to fight as hard for your neighbors as you are willing to fight for yourself? My answer is yes. This guy’s answer is clearly a resounding no. If he can’t get a free ride on the debt he has accumulated, then he doesn’t care about all the other ways people are suffering under Trump. He has no sympathy for people posed to lose their health insurance, for kids at the border put into cages, for all the minorities facing increased hostility, for the planet that is being allowed to die, for voting rights violations, for the loss of basic decency and an America known for moral leadership. It’s just about him, and he won’t be a part of our coalition.
5
I live less than two miles Mr. Michelz. Context is everything. Those apartments you see behind him are in a region of the city that is overpriced and exclusive to white professionals. Two miles away and you might actually have to rub elbows with non white working class people. His rent would also be substantially less. This article doesn't say what Mr. Michelz does for a living but his wife is a nurse and this city has near negative unemployment and a $15 an hour minimum wage so at the very least they take down 100K a year. Try telling an African American man working in a convenience store why he should pay Mr Michelz college debt.
7
Can someone explain to me behind the idea of “delaying marriage” because of one’s economic situation? I can see why postponing having kids, but getting married has only economic incentives (taxes, for example?). Of course if you prescribe to an arch conservative notion that one spouse- the husband usually- has “to provide” for the other one, otherwise it is just a baseless cliche.
3
My thoughts. He appears to be immature and ill informed and probably a terrible money manager. He is not getting good guidance from his family. Maybe he should be giving some time to realistic ways out of his situation.
The one fact that writers like this seem to always neglect is that B. Sanders is not a Democrat and never has been.
What was the point of this article? I scrolled to the end because I knew dude would say some ignorant stuff. I knew he would say he would vote for Trump or not vote. Sadly predictable.
IF Bernie is perceived to be treated unfairly, he wouldn’t vote? Hello? Try being a woman, a poor person, a black man, etc., we have been disappointed since before this country was founded.
Our candidates and fight for liberty have forever been treated unfairly. The difference between a voter like the dude in the article and the rest of us is we fight and we understand that change requires a tough skin. Our lives depend on it.
4
I try to listen to people and be sympathetic. But these two just aren't making a good case for socialism. Won't pile on the other comments, perhaps some bad luck yes, but a lot of bad decisions too. Now he's just mad and wants somebody to blame. I get the feeling white privilege just didnt' work out according to plan, but he's not the only one experiencing that.
3
Folks who feel unfair to see young people get their student debts forgotten because they paid their loans and worked hard to do it: what would you have done with that money? would your life as a young man/woman would have better? maybe you would have travelled more? maybe you would have enough to start a business? perhaps you woulda bought a house?
You can couch a vote for Sanders as a well reasoned vote for revolutionary change or “big, structural change” all you want. What is really is is pure unmitigated self-interest. So, please no holier than thou rhetoric. This voter likes Bernie because he’s going to forgive his debt and magically raise his salary. No different than his Trump supporting grandfather - what’s in it for me.
2
Both Bernie's and Warren's plans let the schools off the hook.
1
A lot of people in here sharing stories in which they heroically manage to avoid debt and shredding this guy for aspiring to the obscene luxury of driving a car with heated seats.
Not so many people discussing why he was able to secure this ridiculous student loan at such a young age with no family support or why anyone is saddled with 24k in "medical debt".
One person actually suggested that his medical bills were probably due to the "drunken roughhousing" so many of today's youth engage in and 112 others recommended the comment.
To a one these folks are just AGHAST that this guy isn't clamoring to vote for (wait for it) Joe Biden.
I mean come on...
Dear Ms. Tavernise and NYT, The Michelz's seem like a nice hard-working young couple. Perhaps Brian didn't have the easiest transition into adulthood and, like many people all over this country, he feels left behind.
How about a little social experiment? Get these kids a very good money management/debt counselor and hook him up with a creative career counselor. Set them off with a plan and follow them up to the election. Let's see who he votes for in November.
Brian, whatever road you take, vote like your future depends on it.
2
But lives will change for the better if Biden is president. Those children in cages at the border for instance. They don’t have the privilege of a vote. Or women for instance. If our Supreme Court becomes so highly conservative your wife can say bye bye to many of her rights with the way Trump and his supporters would have it. Sometimes it is hard when life is so difficult and you are at the bottom to see that there are sadly people who have it worse. I wish it were not so.
3
This is an atrociously myopic position for this voter or any Sanders voter to take. Saying you would vote for Trump if Sanders doesn’t become the nominee is the epitome of spite and/or ignorance. Trump’s administration has been catastrophically bad to the some of the most marginalized groups of people in America: refugees, Dreamers, Muslims, etc. Not to mention, his refusal to address climate change and his continued degradation for the rule of law affects everyone. Removing him from office should be the single most important goal of every Democrat no matter if you back Bernie or Biden. I hope this individual is just a notable exception and not indicative of a broader trend among Sanders’ supporters.
2
A great story.
I think Democrats should be listening to this young couple.
In their headlong belief that only Biden can defeat Trump - which may not happen at all - they are squandering a great opportunity to listen to Bernie.
We, in America - deserve different ideas and view points.
And even though, I am a Republican - I want to hear more about Bernie's programs, plans and his ambitions for America.
We, the Republicans - may not like everything we hear from him - but some of his ideas can be turned into a bipartisan programs that help Americans like this young man and his wife.
Democrats are doing themselves a big disservice by silencing Bernie - again.
The Democrats must remember they also thought Hillary was a sure, safe and guaranteed to get elected.
We know what happened.
Not to be rude, but they say stupidity is don't the same thing over again and expecting a different result.
I think 2020 would be a great opportunity to have a stark choice in our election - an showed socialist - against a guy who is more a transactional.
They also say hindsight is 2020 - Democrats should not lose that hindsight so soon.
He borrowed $100,000 to get a nursing degree and he thinks Bernie Sanders is the answer? How bizarre. On some level people need to be responsible for their decisions.
Well, if anything, he's about to learn that if voting ever really changed anything they'd abolish it.
If you don't vote, you don't get to complain. And if you threaten to use your vote to punish others, your complaints can hardly be taken seriously.
3
A great story.
I think Democrats should be listening to this young couple.
In their headlong belief that only Biden can defeat Trump - which may not happen at all - they are squandering a great opportunity to listen to Bernie.
We, in America - deserve different ideas and view points.
And even though, I am a Republican - I want to hear more about Bernie's programs, plans and his ambitions for America.
We, the Republicans - may not like everything we hear from him - but some of his ideas can be turned into a bipartisan programs that help Americans like this young man and his wife.
Democrats are doing themselves a big disservice by silencing Bernie - again.
The Democrats must remember they also thought Hillary was a sure, safe and guaranteed to get elected.
We know what happened.
Not to be rude, but they say stupidity is don't the same thing over again and expecting a different result.
I think 2020 would be a great opportunity to have a stark choice in our election - an showed socialist - against a guy who is more a transactional.
They also say hindsight is 2020 - Democrats should not lose that hindsight so soon.
Brian,
I agree that change is needed, but staying home when Bernie loses and helping Trump will not help your case.
You don’t know Biden’s history and he is a decent man - not perfect, but decent. Support Bernie until he wins or loses, but if he loses and you stay home - know that you will have helped re-elect an awful president who make your situation worse. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good and decent.
3
A great story.
I think Democrats should be listening to this young couple.
In their headlong belief that only Biden can defeat Trump - which may not happen at all - they are squandering a great opportunity to listen to Bernie.
We, in America - deserve different ideas and view points.
And even though, I am a Republican - I want to hear more about Bernie's programs, plans and his ambitions for America.
We, the Republicans - may not like everything we hear from him - but some of his ideas can be turned into a bipartisan programs that help Americans like this young man and his wife.
Democrats are doing themselves a big disservice by silencing Bernie - again.
The Democrats must remember they also thought Hillary was a sure, safe and guaranteed to get elected.
We know what happened.
Not to be rude, but they say stupidity is don't the same thing over again and expecting a different result.
I think 2020 would be a great opportunity to have a stark choice in our election - an showed socialist - against a guy who is more a transactional.
They also say hindsight is 2020 - Democrats should not lose that hindsight so soon.
1
I totally feel the same way as Brian Michelz. I probably wont vote if its not Sanders.
I encourage Mr Michelz and his wife to vote their interest in every election, every time. Nothing will change for young people if they don’t show up and be counted. Your power is in turnout sir, please don’t waste it - use it.
2
I beg my fellow citizen to vote for whomever the Democrat candidate is, we cannot survive another 4 years as a Democracy with trump if you stay home in Nov.
Neither Joe or Bernie were my 1st choice but I will soundly support the Dem's choice. I see the candidate taking pieces of former candidates plans and weaving a power filled platform for all Dem's to run on.....and that includes Bernie and Biden.
We must stop trumps party movement towards Fascism with rule by a dictator and the only way to do that is huge voter turnout to vote for Dems straight across the ballot. Country must come before party or the Constitution will not survive into the future.
4
OK, so let's say Sanders gets elected and somewhat miraculously gets college and medical debt forgiveness through Congress. So what will you do now, Mr Michelz, with your degree from some small Lutheran College in Minnesota? (I won't ask why you chose to attend an out-of-state college rather than one in Michigan where you presumably could have saved some money by living at home. I won't ask.) OK, so Bernie is in the WH and you have no debt. What will you do next? Will you look for a job that pays less but uses your college degree? How will that help your family's finances? Will you continue to press your wife to start a family? And that will help your family's finances ... how? Mr. Michelz, I really hate to tell you, but Bernie Sanders will not make your life better. You have to take action on that yourself. And if the action you're taking is to vote for Donald Trump, why think how much your life has improved in the past 4 years since Trump took office! And think how much more it can improve with 4 more years of Trump! If you vote for him rather than whichever candidate opposes him in the Fall, look forward to 4 more years of the greatest improvement ever from the most stable genius ever. You will have deserved it.
2
Maybe teachers should be paid more, so people who care about doing that work don’t have to give it up to make a living.
I don't understand why his wife had to borrow $100,000 for nursing school. Here is the information from the University of Wisconsin costs after aid, depending on one's income:
Less than $30,000 $7,225
$30,001–48,000 $9,964
Also at the young age of 29, why is a used car not good enough? Something seems off about this story.
3
For Mr. Michelz and other Sanders supporters:
I agree that you and many working Americans were hurt during the Great Recession. Wall Street was bailed out on the backs of the American public.
I applaud your support for Senator Sanders.
That said, Donald Trump is not the solution. His tax bill has transferred substantial wealth to the 1%, while leaving ordinary Americans in the lurch. Further, Donald Trump is dangerously ignorant on foreign policy and has alienated our allies, while taking actions that have benefited Russia.
I strongly suggest that you back the Democratic nominee. That candidate will not be perfect, but s/he’ll do more for working Americans than will Trump.
3
Many people have made great sacrifices and have even lost their lives to preserve our right to vote. Shame on them for not exercising this right that many people in the world would love to have,
5
You must be careful not to conflate the issue of income inequality with poor financial decisions. These type of stories often leave out so many pertinent details, that they really do not contribute much. So we often have to extrapolate or look for the warning signs that there may be something more to this. Your opening sentence revealed what would follow. When I read “ Debt has dogged Brian Michelz his entire life”, I instinctively said to myself poor financial decisions have dogged his entire life. The details of those decisions is what is often missing and make these types of stories incomplete. But all these individuals have several things in common. They never learn from the mistakes they continue to repeat and they blame others for their misfortunes. Instead of looking within to find the solution they turn to Bernie Sanders with the foolish and irrational believe that the taxpayers will forgive their debts. Mr Brian Michelz needs to truly understand that money will not solve his money problems.
2
A simple solution to the debt problem. Cut defence spending by half and you will have 300 to 400 billions annually saved for that.
Why should America continue to be the superpower at such a cost to her people?
When the USSR collapsed, I remember America was self congratulatory because they outspent their adversary . It's come home to roost. It's time to cut defence spending.
Not sure how he justifies voting maybe voting for Trump, clearly after 3 years he isn't any better off, but he absolutely won't vote Biden?
1
This is a portal into the minds of the well to do. They do not like Sanders. They think college debt is your own fault. They do not understand the concept of a level playing field. They are unwilling to listen to the people when they say "Trump v. Status quo, I'll go with Trump. At least under Trump, I don't have to sit back and pretend everything's ok." When are you guys going to start listening to poor people instead of making judgments and trying to shove your opinions down our throats?
40
Every time I read an article like this I am reminded that Bernie Sanders, and the left as a whole, is the gift that keeps on giving to the Republican party. I am old enough to remember the multiple presidential elections they sat at home for, because, you guessed it, there's "no difference" between the two parties.
They sat home for Carter (2), Mondale, Dukakis, and Clinton, who won only because Perot syphoned off GOP votes. They voted for Nader instead of Gore. They sat home for Kerry. They would have sat home for Obama except for the opportunity to virtue-signal by voting for an African American. Notice how they showed their appreciation for him in 2010 and 2014?
And of course they sat home or voted Stein instead of HR Clinton in 2016, and will do the same for Biden this year.
I am so sick of my party pandering to these people.
46
I don’t understand why someone would borrow $100,000 to become a nurse. Public universities do not cost that much. It sounds as if they made some poor choices, and unfortunately bankruptcy does not wipe out student loans.
Forgiving student loans would in general be a big give away to upper income professionals.
I don’t want to sacrifice our family’s well being and future for other people who want to work the system to get a freebie.
To me, Bernie Sanders is the biggest threat to America now. He doesn’t even sound like a nice person.
Does Bernie Sanders even have a sense of humor?
Barack Obama is really funny. Bernie Sanders, not so much.
36
Sanders is the real deal. Everyone knows it. That’s why they are so afraid of him. That’s why the stock market went up when Biden did well last Tuesday. When did people stop believing in America and what’s possible for People.
16
Brian, trust me, if we don’t get Bernie we must vote for Biden.
Both parties are not the same, not by a long shot.
Bernie will pass bills in the senate and Biden will have to vote for them. Biden has moved way to the left, as has the entire Democratic Party, thanks to Bernie.
Trump will crush what is left of your economic bracket.
28
I too live on the southwestern side of Madison and am in my 30s and college educated. The difference is that I will enthusiastically be voting for the Democrat nominee. It’s disappointing to read that someone whom has had hardships that can be linked to Republican policy still might vote for them. Just remember, it wasn’t the Democrats that deregulated the banks which ruined the economy, cut taxes for the rich which increased the debt, defunded education, defunded planned parenthood, defunded low income assistance programs. Never mind that Republicans don’t want to do anything about the sky high cost of health care, or anything about the environment, they can’t even handle the corona virus like adults. But.... if you don’t get Bernie than you’ll vote Republican.... Seriously?!?
60
Does anyone see an inherent immorality and ethical lapse in handing young people loans such as this at young age? I mean come on people. A zero risk garnish wages until the day you die loan right out of high school.
Bootstraps though! It’s all the indivisls fault. Never mind the concept that it is the fiduciary duty of the lenders to only loan to those who are low risk. So remove the risk.
And this tax on our children, called interest, will cost how much? I bet in a decade if you add up all the interest the banks are getting at zero risk forever we could have paid for everyone’s education. How much have students paid?
But we subsidize rich people gutting companies for profit and throwing people in the street. How are those heated seats in their private jets you pay for when they declare bankruptcy playing games with companies do they make.
Bootstraps kids! Pay that banker tax!
26
Call me selfish, but I
1) didn’t go to my dream college because I couldn’t afford it,
2) went 2 years to a private college at $800 per class (partial scholarship) then switched to a public university at $40/class because I knew the debt load would crush me in my future.
3) ate popcorn or ramen noodles for dinner often in my 20’s to save money.
4) skipped many a weekend in Vegas with friends because it wasn’t in my budget (I had the money - it just wasn’t in my budget).
I don’t see why anyone’s school loans should be absolved, nor do I see why this has become a campaign issue! Just because they’re having a rough time paying them back? I had a rough time paying mine back. But I did.
THAT’S LIFE
Susan
Expat in Ireland
51
29 years old and voted once in his life? With supporters like that, Sanders is done.
42
"If I can't vote for Sanders, I'll vote for the candidate who is violently opposed to everything he has ever stood for and has said so." It boggles the mind.
46
I’ll never understand why so many Americans would be upset if student debt was forgiven by the federal government. If that makes you upset, but not the last 30 years of failed “trickle-down” economics, where the middle class and poor of this country have both footed the bill (in taxes) and due to massive cuts to public programs and social services, then maybe you’re actually just a terrible person. Unlike the massive tax breaks granted to the wealthy and corporations, who instead of creating more jobs or raising wages actually just hoard most of their surplus wealth, student debt relief would bring millions of dollars into our economy because people like me would be able to afford to buy more stuff, go out more to the movies or museums, travel, perhaps eventually purchase an apt or home.
26
What an abjectly infuriating article. Mr. Michelz has my sympathy for his difficult childhood, family financial woes, and educational and medical debt. He's right to think that a system that has failed him and so many others needs to change, and I certainly understand why Sen. Sanders' message resonates with him. But that is where my sympathy ends.
This white man with a college degree will never have his ill-considered, self-interested vote threatened by the conservative Supreme Court justices' gutting of the Voting Rights Act. Although his mother was a victim of domestic violence and his wife clearly has family planning concerns, his vote for Biden over Trump is a vote against funding and enforcement of the Violence Against Women Act, a vote to overturn Roe and defund family planning clinics.
He would vote for Trump over Biden because he believes that nothing will change FOR HIM, either not knowing (hard to imagine) or not caring about the communities of people more vulnerable than him who have already suffered from four years of this administration. He and his loved ones are not at risk of deportation or of hate crimes perpetrated by the white supremacists emboldened by Trump.
Our obligation as members of this democracy is to cast a vote for the country that we want to see, not just for ourselves but for our fellow citizens. Mr. Michelz's political calculus is a fundamentally selfish one in a way that I just cannot respect.
65
It's perfectly clear at this point that if Sanders is rejected by voters this Tuesday, he should, despite his earlier position, abandon any allegiance to the democrats and go third party. This election is too important to lose to a Donald Trump (who has no heart) or a Joe Biden (who has no brain).
7
So many of the comments here are criticizing Mr. Michelz, lamenting how selfish he is, how flawed his decisions were, etc. That’s sort of missing the point. More than anything, this article gives readers an opportunity to see how some Americans view politicians and elections.
Don’t forget that we have extremely low voter turnout. It would behoove us to understand why. Articles like this help.
For many who are living paycheck to paycheck, politicians’ campaign promises are meaningless. They assume --correctly, for the most part – that nothing will change. Inequality in the United States has grown exponentially since Reagan was first elected, under both Republican and Democratic presidents. According to a 2014 study,
“When the preferences of economic elites and the stands of organized interest groups are controlled for, the preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.” (https://tinyurl.com/nwvq7yh) This uncomfortable truth explains in part why so many feel voting doesn’t make a difference.
Are they wrong? Selfish? Misinformed? Not the right question. Michelz stated clearly why Sanders compelled him to vote for the first time. Ignoring that statement is a mistake. He got up and bothered to vote when he heard a message and saw a messenger who made him think that change might be possible.
34
Seems like an awful lot of young people--and even middle aged people--have only a vague idea how our government works (or is supposed to work), and too many are ignorant about things like credit card interest, investing, insurance and maintaining an emergency fund. As a 9th grader in the 1970s, I was required to take civics. But 7 years later, when my brother reached 9th grade, civics was no longer offered. And personal finance class wasn't offered to either of us. I know public schools already have too much on their plates, but these classes offer life skills applicable to all students and can mean the difference between success and failure.
29
I vote for the greater good. I vote for the environment even though it doesn't personally benefit me. I vote to help people who I will never meet because it is the right thing to do.
I paid for my own degree. But I understand that we need to fix the high interest rates that were pushed off on students. The interest rate should always be very low.
The answer is not paying for everyone's loans off. When it is free, people don't value it. When you have to scrub toilets as I did, you value every book, every course,....
I would never vote to help Brian. He needs to help himself and stop being so self-centered.
27
Better to pay in cash like the old days. I hope they are able to get a mortgage, though.
3
Mr. Michelz, you DO have something to lose. Even if you're correct that with President Biden your life wouldn't get any better, it will most decidedly get worse with 4 more years of President Trump. Do you enjoy freedom and privacy you have as an American citizen? Trump would take that away if he could, and he'll try if he stays president. Do you like the fact that you can get health insurance, even with a low income and/or pre-existing conditions? Trump would like to end that too. And more importantly, how do you like this planet that you live on? 4 more years of Trump will degrade it further, and end any hope of mitigating or even preparing for the effects of man-made climate change.
24
Everytime I see this sort of Sanders supporter I am reminded of one of the best tweets I saw during the Bernie/Hil primary. It went something like: Sanders supporters, I totally understand you in your refusal to vote for Clinton if she gets the nomination. One time I went to a restaurant and wanted a Coke but all they had was Pepsi, so I lit my head on fire instead. Guys, don't light your heads on fire. Just get the Pepsi.
32
The Democratic-machine controls the Democrats. Sanders will be denied his candidacy and the D-machine will shift in it's approved candidates.
9
What Mr. Michelz and all of the other "Bernie Bros" MUST understand is that even if Sanders is elected President, he will never be able to implement all of the wide-ranging plans that he has, including the plan to "forgive" all college debt. Why? Because he will have to get those plans through a Congress that may not agree to go along with all of his plans.
However, voting for Trump, who is a xenophobe and a racist will result in the largest human rights disaster in history.
18
I am extremely skeptical of these kind of profiles, whether about Trump supporters or Bernie supporters or whoever. They take the story of one or a few persons and present them as typical or universal. They invite the reader to overreact.
This is an anecdote. It's a the cousin of people who say "I talked to my nephew who likes Bernie at Thanksgiving dinner and now I understand motivations of all Bernie supporters." It's a blind person grabbing hold of an elephant's trunk and claiming that it is a snake. This is certainly one example of a Sanders supporter. But it is not necessarily typical or universal.
14
Great! Now profile the thousands of Bernie supporters who have PhDs but because of neoliberalism have never had a family and have to move every 1-4 years. Or the millions of us who see claerly that he is our best hope to save the planet.
13
Mr. Michelz, should he vote for Mr. Sanders, has "nothing to lose" but his very freedoms and way of life. A Sanders presidency would enact an agenda that would infiltrate and pervert every facet of American liberty. How does Mr. Michelz suppose a loan-forgiveness plan, not to mention universal health care and a "Green New Deal," would be funded? Well, by robbing him blind, of course. Leftist ideology is a politics of coercion and force, and, rest assured, if elected Mr. Sanders will be coming for his paycheck to grease the wheels of his "revolution."
Conservatism, as R.R. Reno puts it, "has room for domestic repose, for private loyalties, for closed doors—for love." Liberty is messy and imperfect, and if Mr. Michelz values the life he has built with his wife—with minimal intrusion from the federal government—he'll vote to reelect President Trump.
5
Sometimes people feel it’s better to burn it down in the short term for better outcomes in the long term. I think the DNC needs ANOTHER lesson in Wisconsin.
6
You can see what is wrong with much of the Democratic Party in these comments. The idea is that voters have a moral obligation to vote Democratic, while Democratic politicians have no responsibility to be worthy of their vote. The only standard is that they need to be less bad than the Republican candidate. That’s a low low bar.
To forestall the predictable criticism, yes, I will vote for whatever ham sandwich the Democrats nominate. But I hope this young man doesn’t read these comments. He seems like a decent hardworking man and doesn’t deserve the sort of arrogant responses he is getting here.
If you are reading this, I hope you vote for Biden if we are stuck with that option. Unfortunately we are often left with a choice of which is the lesser evil and Trump will do more harm than Biden.
19
Dear Mr and Ms Michaelz, please please be open to voting for the Democratic Party, no matter which candidate wins. You and every one of us Americans need your vote. You expressed your preference between two Democratic candidates during the primary season. That’s a good start. Don’t let us down when it really counts in November.
5
I am so sad the Democratic Party is failing these millions of people. The party lost its way when it started courting the corporate donors under Clinton. We forgot our roots; fighting for working people. No party really speaks for them now. If Biden is our nominee, we are going to lose and I don’t really think the leaders in the Democratic Party care. It is in their vested interests to maintain the status quo. Right now people are dying because they can’t afford medication or drs visits. It’s sickening.
10
His problems are real. However, neither Sanders nor the incumbent have any workable answers to address those problems. Look beyond the easy slogans and empty promises.
9
21st century Democracy faces an existential threat from modern mass communication. President Obama & VP Joe Biden brought the biggest changes in lives of ordinary Americans in over 50yrs. Obamacare covering additional 20million Americans, over 70 months of uninterrupted jobs growth, Home Loan refinancing, support for Dreamers... Senator Sanders has no record of achieving anything in 25yrs in Congress. And yet Sanders gains the Trust of voters & Biden does not. This is the doing of Communication strategies which cloud the Truth & render Democracy an exercise in futility.
7
I feel for this man, but to vote for trump and to think his life wouldn’t be any better with Biden as president? I can’t understand that at all. He really needs to pay attention to what trump is doing, has been doing, and will do if he continues in office.
14
Welcome to the club. I have taught in disadvantaged public schools most of my life after taking loans out to get my degree. I didnt manage it the best at first and am still paying it off at 50, under a payment plan that gets bought and sold again and again. Keep voting for the progressives and hopefully things will change.
7
Achieving Sanders goals would imply too many changes in the system. This cannot happen. Even with a senate majority, Trump could not push the conservative agenda that much. His only real success is the appointing of conservative judges. And this is more McConnell's doing than the president's.
Obama was blocked. Why would Sanders not be?
Sanders will never beat Trump and even if he did, his own agenda would less likely to happen than under Biden.
Sanders will simply, like in 2016, only help elect Trump.
For the sake of America and the world, he must end his campaign and support Biden.
5
As a non American who has lived in the US for a decade, the one thing that always baffled me and stuck out here as well is the “car loan”...
My parents were lower middle class and raised me in the belief that - unless you absolutely can’t avoid it - you only take out a loan to buy a house.
For them it was clear: a car was bought used and only with money we had. If we couldn’t afford a 3 year old Volkswagen we bought an 8 year old Nissan and drove it till it fell apart.
No money for a nice vacation? We stayed home or visited the grandparents.
I know the culture in the US is different, but I never understood how people used credit cards with their insane interest rates to buy stuff that they just can’t afford.
I know that healthcare and eduction are different, because there really aren’t many alternatives.
26
None of these Sanders supporters are African Americans. Is that suggesting the African American experience has rebounded since Biden's victories on Super Tuesday?. We hear repeatedly that African Americans are moderate and conservative and just seeking someone electable. Of course, the media obliges in telling them who is electable. 1/2 of African Americans make less than 15 dollars and hour but the livable wage was not even scraped during the debates. 50% of the African American elderly rely on Social Security for 90% of their income. Social security and pensions have not yet been broached in the debates, despite 30% of the voters being over 65
Sanders adopted a Social Security expansion plan years ago, and he has become the political voice of the livable wage.
Harry Belafonte, the remaining living person closest to MLK is an avid supporter of Sanders, Then there is Jesse Jackson who seems very friendly to Sanders, and not so much to Biden. Unheard from. But then there is Biden, Obama's VP,, and this understandably important. But the electability of Biden is something pushed by the pundits, who just want Sanders to be unelectable, and this is pushed on the public consciousness.
These young whites in this article are not the only ones struggling
7
Though it is disheartening, it is hard to justify so many bad choices. $100k in student debt and no degree? I am a Democrat and a supporter of universal, government sponsored healthcare, but the idea of condoning such a large amount of student debt when the individual did not do his/her due diligence when securing said debt and the degree required to pay for it is hard to justify.
15
At least in Australia student loans are government run, don’t have to start to get repaid until your taxable income hits $45,000, and are interest free. However they are adjusted for inflation once a year, which has been pretty low recently.
10
I agree with Mr. Michelz. Trump and Biden really aren’t that different. None of the establishment democrats or republicans are. Trump is continuing Obama’s inhumane treatment of immigrants. The defense budget keeps going up and is passed with bipartisan support. Legislation favoring corporations sails through Congress. Both sides seem to say that universal healthcare is an impossibility, despite the fact that many countries that not only have it but are proud of it.
I wish I could look at Biden and see something to be hopeful about, but no matter how hard I try I can’t see it.
7
So much about this article rings true, although I am 67, always worked in a field I love, and never had student debt. I should be very well off and enjoying retirement, right? Wrong.
When my son was nine, he was diagnosed with serious mental illness and the health care bills started piling up. Instead of getting more secure as I got older, things got harder and very very frightening. Today my son’s mental health is worse than ever. Most of my life’s income has gone to supporting him and paying for treatment. Long ago I realized no matter what, I would never be secure. And now I wonder what will happen to my son if/when something happens to me. Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are the only two candidates who resonate with me - their messages fit my values and their policies address the issues I’ve faced.
But unlike the young man in this article I will never, ever vote for Trump or sit out an election. I hope he, and the young & disenfranchised will see how high the stakes are and how important it is to be involved, consider carefully and vote wisely.
19
Tennessee's primary was Tuesday and deciding was hard.
My heart is with Bernie Sanders, who understands the needs of blue-collar workers, the poor, and the many Americans working for less than a living wage. And yet as I survey the political landscape I'm not persuaded he can win. Too few Americans understand Democratic Socialism so we could nominate Bernie Sanders and watch him get eaten up by a Republican president who lies. Furthermore, Bernie's Sanders's difficulty connecting with African American voters would sink him. This election I could not simply vote my views.The stakes are too high. And so on Tuesday I voted for Joe Biden. But my hope is not just in him--he too is a flawed candidate--but in Democrats as a whole. Already those hopes are validated by candidates Klobuchar and Buttigieg sacrificing their own electoral hopes to endorse Biden and by Mike Bloomberg's reaffirming his early promises, made back when his fellow candidates numbered thirteen. "Every single one of those candidates would make a better president than Donald Trump," he declared, "and no matter who the Democratic nominee is--whether it's me or someone else--I will throw my full resources into beating him!"
Indeed if all of us do everything we personally can to make Joe Biden President and to elect a House and Senate ready to work, then at last we can begin to meet the vast needs--economic, medical and educational--of all Americans, including Brian Michelz.
11
College Education. Houses. They all cost so much because those purchases are funded by easily available debt. Those of us who don't believe in borrowing for basic necessities such as housing had to pay higher prices because people borrowed recklessly and paid asking prices without regard for intrinsic value.
Debt is a problem. It enslaves us. Sanders undrrstands that and has campaigned to break that vicious circle of debt, high prices, and more debt.
As Buddha astutely observed 2600 years ago, you prevent suffering by breaking the chain of cause-and-effect. Debt is cause of suffering in the modern economy. Any candidate who helps minimize use of debt gets my vote.
That's Sanders. Definitely not Biden who is in bed with the finance industry.
11
Educators, from elementary through high school, must take on the job of teaching financial literacy to young students. It should be mandatory, because failure to fully comprehend the subject can lead to poor choices and lifelong financial hardship.
We don’t absorb this knowledge by osmosis, and most people regard the topic as boring and/or stressful. If parents can’t or won’t teach their kids about finances, where are they going to learn? We live in a very complex world. Schools need to step up to the plate here.
7
Joe Biden needs to step it up, and speak to Americans such as Mr. Michelz. People like him and his wife used to be the core constituency of the Democratic Party. Anyone who works 40 hours a week should be able to pay their bills. Democrats can and must represent the working people of America, once again.
On November 3, I will vote blue, no matter who. But in my state's primary on March 24, I will vote for Bernie Sanders. Because I am an FDR Democrat. And I support a positive vision of a better future for all Americans.
9
The author of this piece should have spent some time explaining how $100,000 in student debt for nursing school did not result in a nursing job. Skipped right over that.
I know many nurses, including in my own family, and they are happy with their chosen field, and not financially insecure.
15
I can understand why Mr Michelz is frustrated. He has worked hard and still finds himself in a difficult situation.
Bernie does offer the sympathetic point of view that makes sense when you consider the life experiences Mr Michelz has had. It’s his vote to cast and Bernie is his guy.
But if Bernie is not the ultimate Democratic nominee, voting for Trump in protest is like cutting off his nose to spite his face. His actions as president have not been to support wage growth, a healthcare plan, tuition subsidies or student loan forgiveness. If Biden is nominated, the worst he could do is prevent further erosion of environmental, healthcare and labor protections.
6
Our government sold out the millenials during the Great Recession, and baled out banks instead of people. Many of these young people, college educated with hefty debt, have been given no assistance. It is now a lie to say that you can get a good job with a college education; you may and you may not. Often, trades pay better and in the trades there are fewer people competing for the same job. Our society is not as it was even 20 years ago. College will afford you a job if you attend graduate school and enter a profession.
5
He went to work in a tire store because it paid better than teaching? Where is the future in that? Where is the impact? Does it really pay him more in the long run either financially or morally?
5
We can't always blame people for having unmanageable debt, but it makes even less sense to blame the "system." What could actually be a major factor in Mr. Michelz's plight is his father's suicide and the devastation, and depression, that may have resulted from it. I'm completely serious about this: psychology preempts good intentions, brute force of will and book learning (consider priests who abuse boys, as an example). One little thing: Does his wife have to be so noble as to pay the entire $800/mo. student loan at this point? Wouldn't it make more practical sense to negotiate a reduction and have some more money to move themselves upward?
4
46, middle-class, swing voter. I voted for Hilary. Too many of my contemporaries held their nose and voted for Trump. I would have an extremely difficult time voting for Bernie, Most of my contemporaries, who now want Trump gone, won't even consider it. My demographic is around 50% more likely to vote than Michelz's demographic. The general election story is not about millennial voters, the story is the swing voter.
7
Biden supporters here can act triumphant all they want after Super Tuesday, but it doesn’t change the fact that returning to the Obama era doesn’t address the malaise of people who support Trump and Bernie Sanders. People who don’t have loaded 401K’s and live paycheck to paycheck just want room to breath and an ability to go to the doctor’s without going further underwater. No one is obligated to vote D. The Democrats need to earn these votes.
7
College costs have skyrocketed at the same time that adjunct teachers making peanuts have filled the ranks of college teaching staffs. So who is getting all that money? Administrators?
10
I am not debating that higher education costs too much, as it most certainly does. But people make choices. My brother, a certified financial planner, decided to borrow over $120K to go to change careers and go to law school. The debt dogged him like a chronic illness. It left him no freeboard for any other of life's surprises. Eventually, when he lost his job after the 2008 recession, it led to his bankruptcy. He then lost his car, which impacted his ability to work. The bankruptcy stigma dogged him for the rest of his life and led to worsening depression, which made him even less employable. He died, too young, at 54.
I miss my brother, but he decided to voluntarily enslave himself to debt to go to law school. Likewise, the Michelzes decided to very large debt to invest in careers that offered a certain market compensation. They could have learned a trade, or started a small business, or done something else. But that was a choice they made.
I wish a president could wave a wand and erase all the unfortunate choices I have made in my life. But the difference between a magician and a president is that the magician doesn't tax everyone else to pay for his magic trick.
11
So- how has trump done anything at all to improve this guy’s life? Other than make him feel validated in his anger? Sadly Sanders is the flip side of the trump coin, except if he’s elected he will be unable to get anything through legislatively. But I truly doubt that he will he elected - especially by these young and fickle voters who cannot be relied upon to show up at the polls.
I hope very much that the VP pick will be either Stacy Abrams or Kamala Harris who will galvanize the electorate and give much needed progressive and (more) youthful energy to the campaign, whichever is the nominee. But that this guy would opt for trump if his “Bernie” doesn’t win smacks of petulance and spite.
3
As someone in their 70s who would fall closer to the definition of a socialist than most, I find old men targeting emotional responses in voters the bane of socialism.
Give me a technocrat who can get the job done.
9
As the song says “Everything is free in America..For a small FEE in America.”
Bernie talks about Free but glosses over the Fee. And for anybody who understands the reality of the current state of politics....ain’t none of those bills going to pass. Biden might not be a Kennedy but he might be an LBJ. Somebody who can work the system from the inside to make life a little better and actually pass landmark legislation.
But please please please please stop saying politicians are all the same or there’s a moral equivalence. There is none. Especially with the current occupant in the WH.
One point. Biden must talk to the working folk. Not just blue collar but white collar alike.
Even us with good jobs are always worried we’re one recession from ruin. Anxiety is high. Joe be the hero we need! Learn from Bernie and bring the passion.
4
My heart goes out to this young man and his wife. The one thing that springs to mind is that there is a reason so many Americans move to larger metro areas. There are a wide variety of sales jobs in Chicagoland. Dallas, Houston. It’s gotten to the point where you really need to live in a metro of 2,000,000+ to have the numbers on your side for a good job. Madison is a truly lovely town, but you have go where jobs are abundant. We are all economic migrants now. Gleaners with a small cameo role in some Banker’s epic tale of ascent and accumulation.
$100,000 for a nursing degree is absolute highway robbery as well. Whoever signed his wife up for that ought to be indicted for fraud.
8
A nurse and a teacher should be able to "work" off their debt by serving in communities that need their expertise.
No salary reduction -- commit to serving an underserved community for a certain length of time and student debt should be erased.
10
As a 64 year old Bernie supporter who sees Bernie's platforms as urgently needed solutions that would improve the lives of the vast majority of Americans I think Mr Michelz is correct to reject Biden. Biden, a moderate to conservative Democrat will not address anything Michelz needs. And having mainstream media pundits and so many Democrats say Bernie's goals of universal healthcare as a right, College education as a right, and other programs supporting economic security for all, as too radical reminds me of Dr Martin Luther King, Jr's, letter from the Birmingham jail in which he said in one part, and this is a paraphrasing,
He he has begun to believe the real stumbling block for African-Americans is moderate whites who say while they agree with the goal, they can't support the methods or the timing of the nonviolent activists of the civil rights movement. And it's always that message. That's what we get from the mainstream of the democratic party. It's never the right time.
7
I drive a 1996 Toyota, and my wife drives a 2002 Buick. I'm not rich. But I'm not making bad decisions, either, which is why I'm in a better spot than Mr. Michelz is. Pouring his $3000 bonus into jazzing up his car? Has he thought of trying to pay off his debts instead? Or trying to find a better career than working in a tire shop? Why is it my job to pay for his bad decisions?
In a free society, uneven results are inevitable. In a government-controlled society, everyone does poorly - except for government bureaucrats, like multimillionaire, three-house-owning Bernie.
26
@VCuttolo He wasn’t jazzing up his car. He was making needed repairs. He’d like a fancier car, but he can’t afford it.
1
I just don’t hear how Bernie intends to pass, and pay for, any of his plans. It’s not very reassuring.
10
I find it baffling that people continue to ask this question when so much information is within the public sphere to both answer and satisfy this concern. Former Secretary Robert Reich who has endorsed Sanders since the last primary, is a source to reference for perhaps the best articulation of Sanders ideas, addressing your concern continuously for four years now.
19
This was a very nice profile piece. I've been very skeptical of Bernie in the past. Almost everyone in my life has been responsible in avoiding debt and making good life decisions, so it's hard for me to understand when politicians like Bernie want to raise their taxes to give to the less responsible. Most of the Bernie supporters I know seem to have a chip on their shoulder. But I can see where this guy is coming from and why Bernie makes sense to him. He's doing all the "right things" but still struggling to keep his head above water. Not sure I'm on board with the socialist agenda, but I have a bit more respect.
8
I have been paying my student loans debt for over 20 years and at age 51, I still have over $34,000 left to pay and this means there is little possibility to have money to pay for my kids college. I work in state government on climate change policy and tried to qualify for the public service loan forgiveness program, but after 10 years of payments while in public service I learned that I had the wrong kind of federal loan for the program.
I voted for Bernie in 2016 and 2020, because he gets me and my concerns. I was not thrilled with Hilary in 2016, but voted for her and campaigned for her, because I knew what an existential threat Trump would be to our Republic. This story is repeating itself in 2020. Joe Biden is a status quo don't rock the boat politician. I am supposed to be satisfied that he will accomplish little and stop the bleeding from getting worse. Yes, i will vote for Biden if he is nominated, because the threat of a 2nd Trump term is catastrophic.
I encourage everyone not to throw their vote away in protest and certainly not to vote against their own interest as Mr. Michelz is contemplating. But I empathize with the rare experience of seeing a politician like Bernie who actually connects with peoples' concerns and aspirations for change. That is why I voted for him. I will say that I had great admiration and respect for Warren as well for similar reasons.
37
How will be get his agenda accomplished? . He can’t answer that.
Sanders is proposing a change to millions feeling smth is amiss with their lifes in spite of their best effort. So is Trump but in a much more crude way. I certainly believe that as an outsider to US Trump will make his understanding of USA grandiose even more after November if Biden or Democrats keep ignoring the basic desire and need for change.
Thanks for the great piece. The piece somehow reminded me Goodwill Hunting movie. The main character of that movie works at low paying construction sites but socially in touch with Boston (not Yale) elites and their affluent life’s and at the same time a great honest-smart character values family and friendship more than anything other. Just like the great guy in this piece.
7
"He went to college, just like everybody said he should, but is now working in a job that does not require a degree."
College for most Americans is where the debt starts, and college these days has become the new high school. Most college students are in college because they HAVE to, not because they WANT to. They go to college because their parents send them there, or because their friends go there. It's what society seems to expect. These kids are told that if they don't have a college degree they will not be successful in life, which is not always true. So, they go to college signing up for loans without reading the fine print, without understanding what the loans entail and how they will affect their future. And then, they struggle in college because they don't have the motivation to study and finish, because it's not really what they wanted to do in the first place, or because mental health issues or other issues. When they finally graduate from college, they have thousands of dollars of debt and have to compete to find a well-paying job. It's really a mess.
This is why Bernie gets a lot of young supporters. All my college graduate millennial friends are pro-Bernie, and they all share similar story to Mr. Michelz -- debts and financial issues.
33
@Petunia it seems to me that there are some very good alternatives to a trail of college debt, the first of which is to spend one’s freshman and sophomore years at a local, excellent, and cheap junior college, and then transfer to a good state school to finish one’s BA. Here in California, the average cost for a junior college is $1700 per year. Then, a transfer to a California State University, like San Jose State, would be another $8,000 per year. With those kinds of tuitions, it’s very possible to graduate without debt. I have to think that there are those kinds of options in your state too. One of the things that drives me nuts in all of this is the idea that the “college experience “ needs to include the first two years at a private college or university. They range annually from $50K to $70K. Some common sense, up front in college planning, could avoid a lot of the tuition pain before it starts.
8
Thank you for shedding light on this issue. I know that the next step in my career is a masters degree but I have no idea how I’ll afford it. I have lots of experience and know that I’ll get into a good program. But I haven’t started applying because I can’t figure out how I will pay for it.
10
Go to school in Europe or find a fellowship. It’s hard but possible.
@Andrew Ryan if it won’t pay for itself, then you shouldn’t do it.
Attending a Community College and/or a local State University can cut the cost materially. And the quality of education is typically very good. Typically a far better financial decision. Today many state community colleges and state universities offer quality online degrees that facilitate the ability to work while in school and/or to avoid needing to live on or near a campus. All options that can lead to lower debt or no debt.
32
fully agree. I don't find this article convincing because this person could have made much better choice for his studies.
4
I attended a 4 year private university from 1972-1976 for total tuition of $10,000 and borrowed roughly $6,000 ... my summer job provided the $4,000 difference ... no problem.
My monthly payment on $6,000 for 7 years was $75 ... my w-2 income during the first few years of employment from was $1,500, thus, my payment was 5% of my monthly income .... also easily handled.
The same school today costs $200,000 for 4 years. If somehow you were able to come up with $50k (mom and dad, no way summer job), borrowed $150k and was able to repay over 10 years at 3% your monthly payment would be almost $1,448 per month ... a good job coming out of college might be in the $60k to $72k range (use $5,500 per month). Your monthly loan payment would be 26% of your income ... much tougher to make it on your own after taxes ... likely have to live at home
Question is why has tuition gone up 20 fold while only bringing a 4 or 5 fold increase in salary?
143
@Ron
Lots of fancy sports facilities? $1.5 million+ university president salaries? Luxury student housing?
All of the above?
1
I am a big supporter of Sanders and agree with him on everything except bailing out people with student loans. There are many ways of working towards a successful career without taking on crippling debt. We are fortunate to have some great community colleges in the US. I know many people that graduated from them debt free (they worked through school) and are making the same salary as their colleagues that spend decades paying off $100k in loans. People need to stop buying into myth that attending an expensive university guarantees them financial stability down the road. The only way to guarantee success is dedication and hard work. These folks decided to take out loans so they could attend college with more frills and nicer campus. No-one put a gun to their head. Others used better judgment and chose more sensible options that did not require large loans, and should not have to pay for others’ mistakes. I wish that Bernie would let go of this student loan issue and focus more on the devastating plight of the mentally ill in our country.
37
It’s notable that commenters’ opposition to blanket student loan forgiveness is almost always based on the idea that since they (the commenter) paid theirs back, so should everyone else. These comments are almost always made by people whose college experience pre-dated the era when colleges started pushing bigger loans on students instead of gift aid, putting it roughly in 1993-94.
Student loan forgiveness is not for the individual borrowers. The debt involved is an incredible drag on the economy. These people who are servicing debt would otherwise be buying cars and houses and participating in the economy. Sanders is right about this. Joe Biden, who happily voted to exempt student loans from bankruptcy in almost every case, is absolutely not. 
40
I'm afraid that I read too many more articles like this, that describe Biden as "more of the same," my head may explode. My God, folks, look at the man in the White House. THAT is the status quo. Biden is VERY much different from THAT status quo and so, a vote for Biden (should he win the nomination) is FAR from a vote for "more of the same." It is a vote to save this country, to save our environment, preserve health care for the millions who have it now under the ACA and hopefully expand it. Most important, it is to save hope for the future. Even if you have to consider Biden a placeholder, still vote for him. As if our democracy depends on it. Because it does.
Sanders may be nearer to some readers' hearts and Biden near for others, but BOTH are fundamentally better than Trump. BOTH get us more of the progressive agenda (clearly at different speeds, differing amounts). BOTH will save our democracy.
151
@Joan Johnson Since Warren dropped out I'm left voting for Bernie and I am happy to do so. However, I 100% agree with your comment. It is essential that Trump be voted out of office and any Democrat would be better. Trump will become unhinged if he wins re-election.
5
Biden is a status quo Democrat Sanders IS the change this country needs.
People seem to be afraid of socialism yet there are dozens of programs that exist here in the US: public education, public transportation, police and fire departments, every branch of the military, our roads and highways, social security, public parks, public parking, public libraries, Veteran Affairs Administration. What would you call it if not socialism when Banks and Wall Street were bailed out during the Economic Crises.
There are real people in our country that are burdened with school loans and many more living on the verge of poverty from medical debts.
Time to “look in the mirror and make that change” Sanders recognizes we need real change not just beating #45.
1
One basic difference is sanders campaign is funded by middle class people and no corporations, big industries, no billionaires.
2
This is sad, and frustrating. Yes, I’m sorry for His situation and ongoing problems. He seems to be a decent person. That said, there is a thread of “ Woe is me “ and “ I need someone to bail me out, Now “. Young man, I feel your pain.
I won’t lecture you with stories about joining the Military right after High School, mostly for the decent Education Stipend I received for College, after serving my Enlistment Contract. Or, the fact that I worked full time while attending College full time.
My Family contributed nothing towards my costs, I borrowed nothing. And yes, I’m aware that costs have skyrocketed. And except in rare cases, a State School and/or a couple of years at a Community College is a much more savvy choice.
But, you really lost me with the statement about Voting for Trump. That is nothing but a Rage Vote. As an educated person, you should know better.
What does you Wife think about this ? I’d be very interested in Her opinions. Please, consult Her, and Listen.
77
Lots of false hope, this guy believes that if Sanders wins all debts, etc would be wiped out. Still not going to pass in the house and the senate. He should vote for the guy who can create jobs and better pay.
46
In other words...Bernie Sanders? Trump inherited a long recovery from a deep recession, and everything he's done hasn't really lifted wages to where they should be.
Too bad there isn’t anyone else running who is going to do that.
Maybe I was doing it wrong most of my life? I worked at something since I was 13. A paper route. Painting neighbors houses. Cutting grass. Shoveling snow (you can't even find a kid in my current neighborhood to shovel snow). Cleaning swimming pools. Summers on the swing shift at a corrugated box factory while my friends partied at the Jersey beach towns. I paid my own way to a degree from a state college. Got drafted in '68 and learned a whole lot more at the Army's expense. Never owned a new car until I was fifty. Repaired all my cars myself. I thought the only two things I regretted were not learning to play a musical instrument well and not learning to speak fluently in another language. What a fool I've been. If like our president I had only borrowed money and then stiffed those I borrowed it from, it would been a lot easier. But here is the interesting thing, I loved it all, every minute. And now in my late seventies, I owe nothing to anyone and my car has heated seats. The world owes me nothing and I owe it everything. Education, attitude and persistence will make it work out. Quite complaining, take action and make it happen. Learn from your mistakes and try again. Appreciate every minute you have and laugh as much as you can.
95
I appreciate your story, but it is not relevant for young people now. I am in my 50s, and even though I “bootstrapped” myself into a very respectable financial position, I recognize that it is a different playing field for young people nowadays.
12
$100,00K in student loan debt and he can't even see where the problem started? And if Bernie doesn't get nominated wants to spite himself by voting for Trump?
He still has to learn what a lot of people learn in kindergarten: you are responsible for the things you do, and the choices you make....
109
The $100k in student loans are for his wife who is gainfully employed in a high demand profession though admittedly struggling with too much education debt.
@Muddlerminnow
But, but, he can’t get approved to lease a new car with heated seats!!!
1
@Muddlerminnow : his WIFE ran up that debt.
Someone with brains apparently found her on Linked-In and she also got a 4 year degree in psychology BEFORE nursing school -- so at least seven years of college.
That makes more sense but holy cow -- seven years to get an RN?
She is probably a highly paid nurse now in a psychiatric hospital, so she is making MORE than I first assumed -- probably six figures.
They are complaining but actually have it pretty good. He has a self-esteem problem because his wife earns so much more money than he does!
I am sorry that this young man's conclusion is that he might as well vote for Trump. Trump could change things for the worse and make it impossible for people to have health care as that has been his goal for many years. That would surely negatively affect people like this man and I'm sure that is not what he wants...
37
“The truth is, they are speaking to a frustrated America,” Mr. Michelz said of political candidates. “That’s why someone who is as ridiculous as Trump got elected. People wanted to see someone who wasn’t proper, who wasn’t afraid of the establishment. He appealed to people who thought it was all becoming a sham.”
He added: “It’s the same thing with Bernie.”
This is the most important real issue confronting all Americans of every group of citizens. People are tired of the same same it's just the way it is . I and many others feel different. Change is very much needed in the way we conduct business in governing this country and the policies we enact and for whom.
Bernie Sanders is right we do need a "revolution" for change that works for all. And the change has to begin in 2020.
People want something from their government. They are not getting it. Bernie wants the people to receive the benefits from their endeavors that they now currently do not.
20
When Bernie Sanders will agree to pay off my mortgage loan without raising my taxes through the roof, he’ll win my vote.
Until then...no.
34
I am so very glad to see this article in the NYT. It seems the Democratic establishment is trying very hard to bury Bernie Sanders. We are led to believe that he has less chance to beat Donald Trump than Joe Biden does. One only has to read this article to see the folly of that argument. Mr. Trump was elected because so many Americans have been disenfranchised and impoverished. They see the environment degrading and their future prospects evaporating. Mr. Sanders has been fighting for their futures for decades. Nice to see that realization in print.
22
And in his fight for decades what did he accomplish?
,
1
Problem #1 is that he borrowed $100k to attend a “small Lutheran college” without considering the potential payoff from that decision.
Please explain why the rest of us are supposed to compensate him for that really bad decision.
110
@GC That was my thought. Why didn't he go to a state school where tuition as a resident would have been more manageable? A small Lutheran college is and was a losing proposition. It is very unlikely that he got a better education than at a state school, unlikely that the student pool was smarter than at a state school, unlikely they offered better job placement. Maybe there were good reasons that are not explained in the article, but looking things from the outside that was a ver poor decision. While most likely he did not have any adult qualified enough to advise him, that was the root of his problems. Although I feel sympathetic I am not sure that it's the job of the taxpayer bail him out.
6
Because he took out that loan based on a lie we all helped perpetuate. The universal take on college loan debt, until very recently, was that it was “good debt” — literally, that’s how the financial industry and financial experts of all stripes referred to it — “good debt” that would end up paying off in the long run.
It has not. In fact, the easy access to this “good debt” is in fact one of the factors that’s spurred the steep tuition hikes of the last couple of decades. Colleges know students can “afford” whatever they care to charge, because they’re paying for it on easily-obtained deferred credit, with the government as the guarantor.
Your comment smacks of the knock on homeowners who bought into adjustable subprime home loans in the run up to the housing collapse of 2008. Those homeowners didn’t dream up these pernicious loans. Most didn’t know they existed until an entire unscrupulous, under-regulated industry made it a point to try and sell them on these schemes, often misrepresenting the dangers involved. Yet after the collapse, somehow these poor suckers were held to blame, and not a system devised specifically to exploit them. As one character says near the end of The Big Short, “They’ll do what they always do: blame poor people and immigrants.”
The lack of empathy expressed by some in these comments makes me quite ashamed. I thought I lived in a country with some sense of mercy.
6
@GC
One of several dubious decisions decribed in this article.
1
What has this subject done to get a better job? It seems he's just laying back and waiting for Sanders to forgive his debt just as Yang promised to give him $1000. And just like I long suspected, angry Sanders supporters helped Trump win in 2016.
47
Embarrassing to see commenters lecturing young people about how wise their financial decisions were when they were young.
When they were sick or hurt, they didn't get stuck with outrageous debt that followed them their entire lives. And there is no such thing as "working nights to pay for college" in the US today.
Ironically, the deal that boomers got when they were young is probably more akin to the opportunities kids get in more socialist-leaning countries today - which makes the accusations of "be smarter" and defense of the "market economy" all the more tone deaf.
64
@Turgid The deal boomers got? Reagan came in in 1980 and pensions were killed across the nation. Benefits crashed and contingency’s darkness descended. The only kind of boomers they were was often merely the boom in babies after WWII that gave them that name. Most, including all races, genders, ethnicities, and classes, have struggled, and now trying to retire on meager amounts after lives of labor, with a medical establishment like greedy wolves in the house. Yes, it’s worse now as the wealth class has extended its grasp more and more. But many people have struggled all along, and do not match the stereotype of ease you imagine for millions you don’t know.
1
@Turgid I paid my way and learned from the experience. If working hard and being conservative with money makes me one of those people, then here I am.
I went to a community college for 2 years because I didn't have the money. I didn't get to study for the degree I really wanted because I had to work while going to school. I needed a marketable degree that would get me a job.
2
@Turgid. So no personal responsibility at all? Why should I pay for his decision to go to a private college rather than two years at a community college and two years at a state school? Sorry, but no.
6
Even if he gets elected, Bernie will not be able to get this done. And Trump is certainly not going to help this guy. The only thing that actually will help him is if he can learn to not look at himself as such a victim.
31
This young man's grandpa loves Rush Limbaugh and took in the family when they lost their home in the recession. A mix of meanness and compassion, but compassion only for one's immediate family. The apple hasn't fallen far from the tree. In the end the young man and grandpa will likely vote for the guy who would throw them both under a bus and not look back.
42
Dear Brian and Sarah,
I am terribly sorry for the traumas that Brian experienced growing up - tragedies that no child should have to go through.
Congratulations on your marriage. I'm so glad you found each other.
I'm going to give you some practical advice about your hospital debt. Hospitals are price-gouging patients. I know because it's happened to me, too. Consult with a debt advisor, then go back to the hospital and renegotiate your balance due. Given your family history, you may have been eligible for aid at 18. Don't be intimidated by them. Also, see what you can do to consolidate and pay down your student loans. It took me many years to pay off my loans, too. Lastly, please wait until you're more financially secure to have children. You won't regret it. Enjoy your love.
54
Still another example of how easy is to get credit in the US. Many people simply should not be allowed to access credit so easily -- unless of course can clearly afford it. They become a liability for the entire society and the polity, so much so that they eventually cannot tell the difference between two dangerous populists (Mr. Trump and Mr. Sanders). Not an easy task given the complexity of credit policies and regulations, but bad credit is not just a problem for balance sheets of a lender, it is a problem for the entire society.
14
In the old days banks not the feds administered the student loan programs.
You had to apply and a real banker had to make an assessment if you were a good risk.
No freebies.
That system worked and did not perpetuate the growth of the larded college budgets.
1
Please Mr. Michelz vote blue no matter who- I implore you. Trump’s next move which he has talked about openly is to make cuts to Social Security and Medicare. joe Biden isn’t my first pick either- I’m voting for Bernie too, but the electorate can push whoever is the democratic nominee to do more for the people- unlike Trump. Biden believes in climate change, has developed a plan for college debt forgiveness, will strengthen instead of weaken Obamacare. Trump will create more misery for everyone but the wealthy.
26
Perfect example of why Gen X and Millenials love Bernie, the sense of entitlement they feel. So what if my parents worked to save money for their 3 sons to attend college, as did I for my daughter. Will Bernie reimburse me for the money I saved? Will Bernie pay off my daughter’s college debt? How will he pay for it? Why should the government accept responsibility for individual choices? Any sense of responsibility for type choices they made? Nope- someone else’s fault and they need to pay for it. The reason I can’t support Bernie or Warren is that they can’t show me they math. They have great plans, but no way to achieve them.
26
Gen Xers are not the main base for Bernie.
3
@Steve.
The oldest GenXers are 55 and have children who are millennials. They are not the same at all.
1
@Steve.
Your parents probably had jobs that paid enough to support your family before good union jobs were shipped overseas. I went to a free city college that phased in tuition right as I was graduating debt -free. I got a good job from which I started paying taxes forward to the next generation BUT they now had to pay tuition. So where were my taxes going instead of toward tuition? To a bloated defense budget and to millionaires and their corporations getting tax breaks and giveaways of my tax dollars. We've all been robbed!
4
This young man refers to medical debt that he is still paying for. He probably was uninsured and so now he is crippled by debt he cannot pay - and was charged a much higher price than if he had been insured. This is a travesty. Medical providers should not be able to charge the uninsured more than they would receive from an insurance company. The young man refers to attending "a small Lutheran school" - this is a red flag which indicates he probably went to a private school that charged an astronomical amount of money. For someone in his financial situation - why pick that kind of school. That being said, why does the federal government allow student debt to have interest rates of 6, 7 8%? This is common - in a time when mortgage rates are under 4%. Simply reducing interest rates drastically could help the student debt situation significantly. I also note that his wife says she has $100,000 in student loan debt for a nursing degree - Yikes - where did she go to school? I can assure you that in my area you could obtain a nursing credential for far less than 100K. What seems clear to me is that people need some serious education in order to make good choices. By the way - what does it say about the state of Wisconsin if you can earn more in a tire store than as a teacher.....
44
She probably did get it for less. Like you already pointed out, high interest rates combined with compound interest equals a massive and constantly growing balance.
3
The most alarming part of this article is the casual way that Mr. Michaelz identifies fighting climate change as an important issue to him while also stating that he may not vote in November and sees no difference in a future with President Biden versus President Trump. How does he not understand the stark difference between the two parties on this issue?
Even if you dislike the ultimate Democratic nominee, you can be sure they will work to slow climate change and all its tragedies--biodoversity loss, destruction from extreme weather, forced human migration--unlike Republicans who have proven time and again that they will thwart any effort to move forward on environmental legislation and reverse any that already exists.
To me this is the saddest part. What does the future of our planet hold if so many people like Mr. Michaelz eschew their democratic right to vote, might I say duty?
40
@Saddened reader
The sad truth is we're facing a climate crisis now because the post Jimmy Carter Dems failed to take his lead in putting solar panels atop the White House and transitioning from fossil fuels to a Green New Deal. (Fracking and nuclear free!)The idea was out there and the pressure was on back in the day. Nixon, of all presidents, was the one who started Earth Day to placate environmentalists who wanted an end to fossil fuels.. Clinton, Gore, Obama & Biden all paid lip service to "the great urgency of now" in addressing the Climate crisis but did little to nothing to break our dependency on environmentally unfriendly oil, fracking, and nuclear. Biden was VP for 8 years doing little to nothing to stop greenhouse gases. It's likely his donor base is heavily invested in the fossil fuel industry and highly unlikely he's going to depart much from his feeble history of dependence on environmentally unfriendly energy.
3
So much righteous indignation about Bloomberg buying votes and here’s Bernie buying the votes of people like this with debt relief handouts. I would say they’re both buying votes except at least Bloomberg would’ve done it with his money. Bernie wants to do it with taxpayer money.
65
@Peter
Excellent comment
I sincerely hope that this article is a joke. Everyone is responsible for their own debts, and I am most certainly not responsible for his, nor anyone else's. I have my own debts but I work hard to provide for my family food, a house, health care, dental, savings for college, etc. I have planned ahead for my future and my family's future. I would never consider passing off my debts to the nation and my neighbors to burden.
34
Excuse me, but do you claim a deduction on your mortgage interest? Interest on a home equity loan? Deductions on on interest paid on student loans? If the answer is yes, congratulations! You are indeed asking others to help pay your debt.
1
Would someone get Sanders to explain how he is going to forgive a trillion and a half dollars of student debt? Who is going to eat that debt the lenders or us taxpayers? What Congress is going to pass such a bill? The same Congress that cuts school lunch programs that cost millions is going to cover a trillion and a half dollars of student debt? Promising the moon when you can't fuel the rocket ship is not being honest.
39
Not only that, but what efforts are being done to contain the runaway costs of a college education?
I am so tired of hearing people blame people with student debt for their suffering.
People at 18 and 22 have brains that are still developing and often lack the capability to make sound financial decisions. Just because you did, you had the right people advising you or the right support system in place, does not give you the right to judge others.
This is not about individual decisions and private financial responsibility but about what we want as a society. Do we want people to become more educated, so that they can contribute their ideas and enrich our society? Then we need to reduce the crushing debt burden of education.
I am lucky, I apply myself and make a six figure salary now finally, in my 30s. My loans are under control. But please, tax me more so that we can build a more just society.
I have many options but I am with Bernie all the way, do or die. Profile me sometime? Lol
18
@Shepherd
18 and 22 year old brains can do math. 10 and 12 year old brains can do math.
I understood him and agreed with his logic until it was clear that he would rather vote for Trump than Joe Biden. Then I realized the power of early influence in his life.
29
I’m sorry for the young person here. But I’ve worked in the public sector for low pay for 40 years, have cancer, am facing debts that dwarf student loans despite insurance, and worried for my family no end. And a healthy man under 30 has “no way out”? I really am sorry that the nation has been in the grip of the cruel right. I fought it all I could. But he can really still fight well, and live well, if not richly. I’d recommend creativity, work, love and friendship, resourcefulness, political action with all the patience and persistence he can muster. And a little gratitude for the good things he does still have and the future he can still build.
34
@jb thank you for sharing your story.
1
Why is anyone surprised at the attitude of this young man? We have a large permanent underclass in this country of young people with non-dischargeable debt that they will never be able to pay off in their lifetimes. Why exactly shouldn't they be willing to burn the entire country to the ground? They have absolutely nothing to lose. Just wait - when the Sanders campaign comes up short again, some of these young people will inevitably end up migrating to the far right, which for all its faults is far better organized and more politically effective than the left.
15
“He spent years in college classes learning teaching, but ended up working in a tire store because it paid better.”
If our country values education so little that teachers are paid less than uneducated tire store clerks, why is anyone surprised that we have as many problems as we do?
29
So everything a candidate offers must be directly beneficial to him. It’s all about him. Not society. Not the nation. Not the climate. Not vulnerable minorities. Not truth. Not science. Not the rule of law. Just him.
He doesn’t sound like a pleasant person. Perhaps many of his current issues are exacerbated by an appalling lack of empathy and awareness.
Going through life with a sole personal focus is generally unworkable...unless your dad happens to leave you a $400 million real estate fortune.
Not a sympathetic character in my book.
34
This is exactly why politicians should not promise things they can’t deliver. Didn’t we have enough of that last time around?
11
@Mike S......Yet, Trump is delivering and has attempted to do everything he stated he would. Has he been blocked by the courts; yes; but he is doing what he stated he would do.
Clearly, Joe Biden needs to do a better job communicating his positive vision of a better future for all Americans.
11
@MidtownATL Biden is a drip. The Democrats will lose if he is the nominee. I am not a registered democrat and I certainly will not vote for him. People need to stop believing that primary voters are the body politic as a whole.
7
@Jonathan
I will be voting for Sanders in my state's primary on March 24. But I will vote for the Democratic nominee, no matter whom he or she is, on November 3. I hope you will do so too.
I have voted for some Republicans in the past. But I cannot do so in 2020 in good conscience.
D to go forward. R to go backwards.
4
When I went to college and graduated from Nursing School in 1977, tuition in California State University was $300 per semester including book. My rent was $100 per month, sharing a 3 bedroom house with another student. My parents paid my car insurance and gas. I worked 8-12 hours per week as a nurses aide. I graduated debt free.
My daughter graduated in 2007 from a California State University. Tuition and books were $6000 per semester, her share of rent was $300, we paid her car insurance/gas and she worked as a waitress on weekends and needed $28000 in loans to finish.
Who knows where it is now, but we are failing our young college students.
I don’t know the answer. My my heart hurts thinking about it.
24
Anyone who favors Bernie and if he does not get the nomination and then decides not to vote or votes for Trump deserves what his or her children and grandchildren will inherit. A world far worse off and much less able to adjust in the future to the calamity the world is facing. Oh and you can be sure the next president will get 2 more supreme court nominees before 2028.
Please folks be smart don't waste a chance to dump Trump.
27
@davey385
Maybe so, but WE don’t deserve it.
This guy needs to grow up and make better decisions.
When you're twelve it is perfectly OK to think that your parents will transfer some of their wealth to bail you out of bad decisions. Like a re-do of that awful haircut.
When you're thirty and looking at your fellow life-travellers to bail you out then that is another question. Like that freely acquired college debt that 'everybody' told you to get.
I didn't 'tell' you to get it and I don't really feel like helping you pay it off. But I'm sure that even if Bernie doesn't get the nomination he will still use his hundred of millions of dollars of pledges to ease your problem... yeah sure.
30
@SteveRR
Did you get the impression that the subject of this piece was looking to be bailed out as a child or an adult? Reread the circumstances of his formative years. This subject seems to be a conscientious, thoughtful person.
Well, you have no obligation to him, he has no obligation to you - he will vote how he wish without thinking how it will affect you.
“As for the economy, nothing made sense. He spent years in college classes learning teaching, but ended up working in a tire store because it paid better. He went to college, just like everybody said he should, but is now working in a job that does not require a degree.”
Mr. Michaelz is probably right - teaching salaries are terribly low for new teachers - even as they organize for better conditions in their schools for their students and themselves. What a shame, considering that this piece demonstrates Mr. Michaelz’s fearless curiosity and his process of figuring out how to vote in the interests of hardworking teachers, nurses, and other workers. Hope he considers teaching again - we need curious young people like him in our schools, paid a living wage, to help young minds learn how to find the answers that are right for their experiences.
6
Bernie Sanders has not "diagnosed the source of the problems" faced by people who have "too much college debt."
The actual source of the problem is individuals who voluntarily borrowed a great deal of money from government run student loan programs, and now need to live up to their promises to pay that money back.
The "source of their problem" is their own poor decision making.
Bernie is a liar and even if elected has exactly zero chance of convincing Congress to repudiate 1.5 trillion dollars of valid debt owed by people that voluntarily borrowed that money.
"Medicare for All" which requires outlawing the current private insurance covering 180 million Americans, has even less chance of passing Congress.
Bernie's crank socialist promises of 40-60 trillion dollars of new government spending for free-stuff give aways to buy votes are pipe dreams that will never, ever happen.
29
And the banks loaned out money who could never pay it back in the housing crisis. Did they get punished for their lapse in judgement?
14
@Fred Rick
I’d like the government to stop being an education loan shark, and eliminate the student loan programs. It just enables this kind of thing.
6
What choice did he have? Have no education and condemn himself to low-paying jobs or to get the loan for education and to try to improve his chances? Seems to me, no matter what choice he made, he would be an object of your scorn. If he have no education, it would be his fault that he could not get higher paying job. He got education, he is at fault again because he had debt that he can not pay. I love how some people don't mind to take subsidies for their healthcare from their employers, but, god forbid, other people will have subsidized healthcare. I think 180mln are selfish. They don't want to departure with their subsidized healthcare, even although such systems drives the healthcare cost for everybody up, including people who have to pay full price without any subsidies. So, spare me of your lecture . Pay full price for your care yourself than you can preach me what kind of system is better, until then you sound like a hypocrite.
This guy thinks his financial situation is not of his doing? It surely isn’t my doing, yet he expects me to pay for it. Not likely.
36
He expects an economic system that doesn’t impoverish youth out of the gate. We could do that with no impact on your taxes if we readjusted our priorities, and everyone would benefit.
39
His debt started with emergency health care. Do you have any idea how expensive healthcare insurance is for those who don’t get it from their employers, i.e. the working poor? Look into it - it’s more than rent for many. And the only way to get healthcare at work is a professional job requiring a degree hence the loans. You sound lucky enough to have missed these traps. I am, too. But many are not so fortunate.
15
"You" aren't paying for anything. The federal government creates and destroys federal dollars. Your zero sum game thinking indicates you don't understand the good parts of capitalism any more than you implicitly claim Bernie supporters do.
1
Nice profile -and a point of view you won't hear on cable news shows, or most media outlets. Too bad people like him can't ask questions at the debates instead of millionaire moderators to whom guys like this are invisible.
26
Puff piece for Bernie written by an obvious left leaning staff reporter.
Sanders held a big rally virtually across the street from my home today (Saturday). The headline to this story just about sums the crowd’s profile. Mostly young people cheering for the guy who they hope will free them from their student loan obligations a d give everyone free health care. Not much deeper though expressed than that. Nobody seemed to want to think through the game or entertain the probability that if Bernie wins Trump almost certainly will be re-elected, an unbearable possibility for me.
17
I'm sure this person is thinking about whether Trump might win—he said he might vote for Trump.
Centrist Trump phobia may cost Bernie the primary, but until centrist Dems realize the average independent has *completely opposite* views that also just happen to criss-cross party lines, their strategic voting will not make a Trump reelection less likely.
6
What kind of deep thinking you expect? Like how we can give more money to billionaires while everybody else have to take crashing debts to survive?
This is a brilliant article, thank you! The Great Recession was a disaster for millions of Americans, millions who never recovered, and the Democrats did little to help them. Obama bailed out Wall Street, but not Main Street, and his mainstream followers are still enamored of the neo-liberal philosophies that have harmed so many middle and working class Americans. It is a tragic irony that the first black president presided over the greatest loss of black wealth in the nation's history. Nothing I've heard from Biden suggests he will turn things around at all. Trump is beyond horrible, but the Democratic establishment has no plans to change the destruction of the middle class that's been going on since the 1970s. So when it comes to Biden, like Mr Michelz I don't see the point. Vote Sanders!
19
@Justice poverty is a reality throughout human history. The difference now is, we have less of it than ever before. However, that is still no guarantee that everyone will experience success regardless of their own personal actions. The US in 2020 is not a difficult place to achieve success. In human history, it is just about easiest situation humans have yet faced. Humans are tough and can cope with amazing adversity. Today’s young people lack this context. They are looking for answers based on an incorrect set of assumptions.
10
if 2020 is such a wonderful period, why shouldn't he vote for Trump?
Why hasn't any Democrat come up with a plan to refinance college debt? The government can borrow via long term bonds at less than 2%. They should issue enough to refinance every college kid out there who has been victimized by the system. Who would object other than the bankers who should have all been jailed in 2009!
25
Bernie's shock and awe "just cancel it" is intended to moroh under compromise into just that! Asking Bernie to be forthwright about this is like asking Trump to be forthwright that something less than the wall will do—terrible politics neither will make the mistake of doing in an election.
Politics can only be pure policy *after* the crises of this era are resolved and American education is high quality. Until then anyone asking to conflate the two is naive band self-defeating.
5
Making refinancing an option is the way to go. Writing off people’s debt, so that other people can pay for it, is nonsense. Lots of this is about people not wanting to own their own decisions.
2
As we look down the road to substantial tax increases and a probable recession why shouldn’t we extend free education and health care for all and the illegal immigrants?
Surely Biden and Bernie have a money tree they can shake.
5
Some of these comments are ridiculous. Complaining that this man spends what is probably only a dollar or two to buy his wife a couple of flowers. Obviously loves his wife who apparently has complained of being cold in the car, because he dreams of getting her a car with heated seats. He said nothing of such a car being new or used, and he had to spend his $3,000 bonus on just fixing his current car. They don't have extravagant habits or dreams.
Someone else mentioned BAPCPA, which Biden supported. That change to the Bankruptcy Code made private student loans non-dischargeable (except in very rare circumstances, given the way the judges have applied the law). Prior to that, private student loans were dischargeable just like any other unsecured debt, which is how it should have stayed, given the high interest rates and the lack of protections and options that come with government-guaranteed student loans. But let's go back even further, to the good ol' days for boomers, when even government student loans were dischargeable. Not only was there low tuition back then, but if one took out student loans and ran into financial trouble, bankruptcy could help. Had the law not changed over the years, this man would have had bankruptcy to discharge all his debts. He would have had a fresh start, which he does need, since a college degree is not what it used to be and has not done him any good job-wise.
Bernie is communicating hope. I hear him, just like I heard Obama.
40
@Carol A dollar or two for flowers? Are you that out of touch?
Heated seats come only in expensive cars. A Honda Accord base does not have them, move up to the leather seats, and it does. When I was young and raising a family, although I wanted a BMW, I drove a Dodge Colt with a stick shift, because that was the the minimum transportation that met my requirements.
Learn the difference between a ‘want’ and a ‘need’, and prioritize.
Now that we have done so, we are in a place where both of our cars have heated seats. But not at his age.
Make better choices and look to your priorities.
14
@Bailey T. Dog I bought a used Mercury Sable with 55k miles on it for $3500 three years ago and it had heated seats. It's not crazy for him to wish for a car like that for his wife. And notice he just wished for it, didn't just buy it because they wanted it. It's okay to want things. They acknowledged it was a want, not a need.
2
He should have declared bankruptcy at a time when his big issue as he puts it were the medical bills.
1
Michelz does believe in that American dream, the quick fix. There is no such thing unless you have money to make the quick fix. I had a student loan for grad school here in the USA that took forever to pay off. And it still took a gazillion years as a boomer professional immigrant to get to low six figures just in time to help my retirement. I survived on the job discrimination (yes to white guys who had less qualifications than me). I constantly improved my situation via job hopping until I stabilized myself as my child reached college age. I am true blue and believe if there is a will there is a way regardless of who is the president.
20
Dear Brian, Since the medical debt was incurred over 6 years ago, you should not have to pay it off. Sounds like you need to get advice from a good consumer debt non-profit. Debt collectors and hospitals will often trick patients into paying a little of the medical debt which only restarts the 6 year clock until it becomes uncollectible. When a debt is that unmanageable relative to your income you have to draw a line in the sand, stop paying and look into bankruptcy and/or consumer debt relief. There is no shame in that. And fighting it in small claims court can often give you an opportunity to negotiate a lower the amount owed. If not, bankruptcy is next. Also there could be some student loan debt relief available but you and your wife will need to be persistent with the paperwork for obtaining it. Also, I know it gets cold up in Madison but ditch the heated seat car idea. Use a microwavable heating pad to pop in the car when you head out in the AM. I lived in Alaska for several years and that plus a thermos of hot coffee worked great in my old, cold, but reliable Subaru. And please Brian vote blue no matter who. It will get better when Dems are back in power. Please don’t throw away your vote, your future is worth it. Best of luck to you and your wife.
42
If Bernie is one thing it is authentic. You may not like his politics. I do. But you know he is not just mouthing words like most politicians. He really means what he says. And he had been saying it for 40 years. That is why the gentleman highlighted in this story supports him. One need not call oneself a democratic socialist to be attracted to Bernie’s genuine authenticity. This is why he has a much better chance of beating Trump and by the way change the country for the better, than Joe Biden who lacks authenticity, among other things. Forget about how far left he may be or seen to be. Genuineness matters far more.
21
@Tedl
Oh, so Senator Sanders is more genuine than former VP Biden? Maybe that explains his unwillingness to fully release his tax records and medical info regarding his recent heart attack. Sounds to me a lot like the man (and I use that term loosely) currently sitting in the Oval Office. I predict with absolute certainly that should Sanders lose the Democratic presidential nomination (and he's not even a Democrat, to boot) his supporters will a): once again falsely claim that the process was rigged against him; b) sit on their hands in the fall (like so many of the did in 2016) and pave the way for a second Trump term, and c) spend the next four years endlessly whining about the disastrous position the country will be in while conveniently ignoring they could have helped prevent it. A college education is fine, but what gets you through life is just plain old good common sense.
18
A nurse makes between 50 and 70K. If he's making 30K they should be fine.
21
@Bill Thomas She pays $800 per month for her student loans, and the rent is almost twice that amount (say $1500). Of course, she has payroll taxes and deductions for medical insurance, as does he. Utilities, car insurance, car maintenance, gasoline, food. They have $3.00 in their bank account. Sounds about right.
3
@Bill Thomas
Thanks for solving all their problems.
2
I’m very saddened by the article, and I hope Mr. Michelz and his wife overcome their obstacles.
They have jobs, they’ve got each other, and they’ve got a decent chance to succeed if they persevere.
I think they deserve help, so I understand why Bernie Sanders appeals to Mr. Michelz. However, Mr. Michelz will never get any help from Donald Trump or the Republicans.
Many of us are frustrated when we encounter people who vote against their own interests. While this behavior can baffle us, the explanation is quite simple:
Never underestimate the ignorance of the American people.
19
Maurice is right that centrist dems are stuck always playing defense in a center right country—they will never be able to do anything *in time* to help him.
Bernie knows if we gamble on not catering to all those suburban Romney voters but instead go after the non-engaged masses, we take some risk but can deliver fast enough to build real political momentum as only the right has had in the last 40 years. More risk, more reward.
And given that many Romneyites went Clinton, it's maybe not so risky after all. What's hard to pull off in the primary can work on the general.
2
During my freshman year student orientation in college I was lucky to hear a counselor state the following very clearly: You will live like a poor student now or you will live like a poor student later.
That was 35 years ago and it was one of the most useful pieces of wisdom I ever heard at that young and impressionable age.
With that wisdom in mind I switched to a public university the next year and cut my tuition bill by 80%. The counselor of course didn’t know she was sending a student away from her employer. But I am grateful.
30
Maybe he should have been a good citizen in the past and voted. Assuming Bernie Sanders is going to cure all of his problems with a stroke of the pen is beyond wishful thinking.
22
We can assume that Bernie will fight for the solutions, we can not assume that about Biden who was in the power and didn't fight for the interest of ordinary Anericans
5
I think that very much of the criticism is based on the fact that maybe, maybe he might consider voting for Trump. Or Sanders, or no one at all, but it's the Trump thing that sticks in everyone's craw. It shouldn't.
5
@Wine Country Dude
His not voting in 2016 was irresponsible.
The possibility of voting for Trump in ( or not voting again in) 2020 is irresponsible.
Sanders policies are normal policies in the rest of the rich world.
8
I taught college students for years. Many of my students were returning military veterans and young men and women from poor inner city neighborhoods. Both groups often had attended for-profit online colleges that made big promises. The students used their Federal and other benefits to pay for their expenses at these for-profit schools, and almost always also had to use their own money. This meant large loans. So military benefits, Pell grants, and large loans by young people, many of them veterans, paid to for-profit institutions that told outright lies to entice students. The Federal government continued to support these for-profit schools. Bill Clinton was on the board of the biggest of the for-profits. Judging from my experience many of my students were taken advantage of and manipulated, and they ended up with tens of thousands of $ in debt. Paid to schools that should not be allowed to exist. My point is that it is all too easy to blame young people for accumulating educational debt, not to mention medical debt, and I truly appalled by how many of the comments responding to this article are heartless and ill informed.
15
@SB I've known similar cases in lower income neighborhoods of Oakland. Those non profit schools promising two year "medical technican" degrees and "guaranteed employment" were/are not schools, but scams set up to harvest federal student loan money via gullible lower income young people who may have been sidetracked from legitimate educations at community colleges. Given those businesses should not have been allowed to exist, those kids should get a break.
9
@dbezerkeley Part of the scam is that the recruiters are paid for each person they recruit. I had a very bright African-American woman in one of my honors' classes who had gone to a for-profit because it made outrageous promises. She dropped out after a year or so, and eventually got a scholarship to a good university, but she was burdened with thousands of $ of debt. I feel for these young people - and just maybe we wouldn't be ruining their character if we forgave their education debts. We don't have to wipe away the debt of people from upper middle class families.
2
@SB : I agree with you on for-profit school scams. They should be illegal and shut down.
However, there is no evidence either Mr. Michelz or his wife ever went to a for-profit scam school.
Though I understand the Bernie slant, he’s not going to beat trump because too many mainstream voters (who always vote) are afraid of the disruption that Sanders has promised. Many of those people however, will vote for Biden. Biden will hopefully hook up with Amy as a running mate.
For those people who actually read about what trump and the republicans have done, I don’t know how you can not vote to put out the fire.
If Biden is the candidate, put away your ideological perfection need and vote to put out the fire. Then, work hard to incorporate the changes you want within the Democratic Party. Trump is trashing the environment, a free press, democracy, the court system, social nets. He is the ultimate champion of corporate interests, just vote him out.
17
On the other hand, if Trump wins, it brings enough pain to democrats and they will work extra hard for benefit of people. Maybe, then M4A will be not such a radical idea.
In the immediate term, eliminating the bankruptcy limitation on student debt would make it impossible for any student to borrow money for their education. No lender, including the US government, could ever agree to such a fraud-prone transaction. This of course would mean thousands of weaker colleges and universities would probably need to close. But in the long term, I think it is a good plan to rationalize costs. Colleges and universities should not subsist on this debt that so burdens students. Their greedy abuse of students must end. Tuition should be paid in cash by those who have earned the money. If the price is too high, make colleges and universities less expensive by 60-80%. Other countries accomplish this with ease. They do not have the lazy bloat and greed that characterize US government funded activities like education, military and health care.
10
I'm seeing alot of "This guy made poor decisions so it's on him" comments. It's funny how few Democratic politicians at the time said of the banks" They made bad decisions so it's on them". No, instead we bailed them out and let them take part of that cash to give to themselves in bonuses. I get the need to save the banks, but there does not seem to be any similar desire to help out those who may have taken out too much in college loans, and those loans just happened to become more expensive after the 2008 crash. So we ask, "why do they not vote"? I also happen to believe that they should be voting, but please consider giving them more than
" I am not Trump" and give people something to vote for.
16
@Mark
This is a disingenuous comment. Of course banks were blamed and investigated and put under much more regulatory scrutiny (which the Trump Administration is recklessly reducing). But had the banks actually failed we would have had a depression.
Critical thinking is essential.
FWIW, the banks paid back ALL of their loans with interest. The taxpayers made a profit. But I don’t expect grandstanding commenters to recognize facts any more than Trump does.
1
Why am I left with the feeling that he's going to vote for Trump out of spite? How can anyone veer from Sanders to Trump?
24
In my late 50’s and supported Bernie in 2016. However, I can no longer back or support a candidate that blames other people for other people’s problems. It’s way to Trumpian for my tastes and politics.
I’ve grown tired of extremist, angry, people, both young and old, that are constantly trying to burn things they don’t like down to the ground without realizing how that may affect others. It’s selfish. In other words, there are things I don’t like about my kitchen, but I’m not gonna set my entire apartment on fire to fix the kitchen. That’s dangerous and will hurt my neighbors. I’ll work with what we have and make the kitchen better by formulating real world, do-able designs and plans and may even keep some of the old parts. What Bernie proposes is not realistic nor very adult.
In closing, I’m a middle of the road guy, live a good life, have a nice home and my bills are paid. I’ve also been working since I was 12, never took a handout from my folks and have resolved my own financial problems through tenacity and a nose to the grindstone mentality. And I’ve had a few issues along the way. That’s just life.
And never once has a president bailed me out, saved me, etc.
28
You did go to public school funded by the other people handouts? Funny, how some people really don't notice handouts they used. They also don't care about their neighbours, but really want their neighbours to care about them. Hey you vote as you wish, let the other people to vote as they wish. I don't see why we should think that your way to vote is the right one.
1
Mr.Michelz is under a lot of stress and pressure, but I hope he will take the time to read the comments posted here. From them, I hope he will learn how to help himself and his wife better their lives, and also come to understand the vast difference between a identity administration and a continuance of a Trump administration. And, I hope he then will vote Blue no matter who.
10
I really hope he will not many of these comments especially the ones that blame him for his problems because in this case he for sure will not vote the blue. Really, some people have a funny ways to show compassion.
6
I find this article both depressing and very frustrating. To read these words from a "college educated" person bewilders me to think what students are learning in college. Many young people think that going to college is like taking a pill to become smart. I find it incredulous that Mr. Michelz does not see the difference between Trump and Biden. To think that Mr. Michelz borrowed money for a college education that seemingly is not worth the paper it's printed on. To boot, his wife borrowed $100K to become a nurse. It seems to me that this couple should've been better educated and counseled in their K-12 years, so they would be better prepared to make informed choices and decisions as to realistic monetary budgeting, college education and their future. It is imperative that Trump does not get reelected to a second term. I am at a loss as to how persuade voters, such as the Michelz's, that it is not in their best interests to vote for Trump.
"An educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people."~ Thomas Jefferson
20
Imperative to whom? To you? Well, vote against him. Just don't tell the other people what they have to feel toward some candidates. You love Dems for whatever, but it is not clear why Michelz to love them. I think to shame people to vote your way is a bad tactics and breeds resentment.
@biglatka Before leaving your judgmental comment, you should take a moment to look up the average debt load carried by people attending nursing school. Also, you may have the missed the section where Michelz explains that he didn't finish college and that his debt has ballooned from medical bills. Thomas Jefferson was a big supporter of close reading and informed opinion fyi.
We had friends in our previous city--a young black couple, the husband a h.s. dropout, both surviving largely on public assistance--who had never voted. She, too, said simply that she'd never noticed a difference in her life or her mother's life ras a result of who was president. I felt that there MUST have been some difference somehow, but it's true that her life was so hard regardless that maybe it seemed small.
13
Reading this I felt sympathy and empathy for Mr. Michelz- we have to do something about the cost of college and out of control college loans. We have to help people in need.
But I also felt pretty annoyed. Is he representative of our electorate? He obviously hasn't bothered to educate himself on any of the policy differences between Trump and Biden or even think beyond the heated car seats he wants to get for his wife about how another Trump administration might impact communities of color, the environment, labor, immigration, education and the fundamental institutions that safeguard our democracy. This is because if he doesn't get a blank check from Bernie Sanders to take care of his debt- which will not happen even if Sanders is elected president-he's going to throw his vote. Its just a very unrealistic view of the world and one I truly hope other voters do not share.
18
Basic financial literacy should be talk in a high school if not before. Young people need more career guidance. More common sense as well but that seems to be as hard as ever to teach and the costs have having little to none are high. Start with an understanding of debt and with return on investment. With patience and with restraint. I will readily admit that I learned a lot of things that hard way over time but I never though that it was someone else's responsibility. I have a lot of young colleagues and they show much more financial sense and foresight than I did at their age so I know it is possible.
6
There should only be one issue on the ballot this November and that is whether or not to remove Donald Trump from the presidency. Healthcare, climate change, reproductive rights, all the causes dear to the hearts of progressive minded people will hang in the balance regardless of a Sanders or Biden ticket. So the critical question is which man has the best chance to achieve that.
The millennials have not been showing up at the polls in the numbers hoped for. This raises serious doubts about the viability of Sanders. While Biden does not generate the enthusiasm in this demographic he may produce enough of an abandonment of Trump by older voters to make up for lower turnout among the youth. Additionally I would expect the moderate billionaires Bloomberg and Steyer to be more willing to fund a fellow moderate than the democratic socialist.
I can only hope that Bernie Sanders understands his greater duty is to the nation and not his assention to the White House when he is asked to support a nominee not himself.
12
I am disheartened by all the disparaging comments directed at the young man in the story. It's true that individuals have to consider carefully before they take on student debt. It's also true that education is essential to succeed economically, as young people are told over and over when in high school, and for the majority, student debt becomes essential. The situation is much worse today than 10 or 15 years ago. Pell grants used to cover a much higher portion of tuition for poorer students, and tuition was far lower for everyone. States contributed much more to public colleges. Banks have had a lock on Congress for years, buying influence to prevent passage of laws that would enable students to refinance their student debt (typically 3-9%) like others can refinance other kinds of debt. Medical debt is even less an individual's doing. No one chooses to get sick or injured. If we had better health coverage for all in this country, medical debt would not be an issue. The coronavirus situation is putting in stark relief the gaps in our health care system. Of course, individual responsibility is important. But so are social and economic policies that make it possible for individuals who try to act responsibly to get ahead.
29
What we need in this country is better guidance counseling and career paths that don't include college. College loans vary significantly, depending on the lenders perspective on a students future ability to repay it. Medical students get much lower interest rates than fine arts students. Students looking at education as a career need to recognize that it is a part time job. Teachers are paid for typically a 37 week year. Most teaching contracts require about a 6.5 hour day and, yes, many teachers put in more time each day than that but their total time over a year is still much less than 'full time'. Until the education system in this country make it possible for a teacher to work full time that won't change. The young are typically naive and idealistic (look at how many vote for Sanders?) and are currently being fed a pablum that demands college, which most of them aren't qualified for.
That needs to change. In most European countries (with the much touted 'free' college) you have to pass qualifying exams to get that free college. Those that don't get shunted into trade schools where they can have a gratifying and financially successful career. Sound like something we need in this country?
9
Unbelievable. Here we have college educated adults who intend to vote against their own interest. The reason why education is so expensive is that unlike before, the government is not willing to pay for it anymore. It is not willing to pay because it has not enough revenue. And that is because for decades the Republicans have relentlessly lowered taxes. So, you’d expect these young adults to vote for politicians who want to fix this, right? But no, he’ll vote for a Republican rather than Biden. Because … wait for it, Biden would not make a difference. With this kind of thinking (among the college educated!) we are all doomed.
You’d expect he knows why it is so hard to pay of student debt – the interest rate is obscenely high. Who did this to him? The Republican House. How did they get in power? The youth, including Mr. Michelz) did not vote in 2010. The same youth that is now paying the price. Pummeled by the same Republicans … Mr. Michelz now intends to vote for.
We are all doomed.
676
Federal tax collections last fiscal year were up 3 percent. Federal spending was up 8 percent.
Both government tax collections and spending grew faster than the GDP.
All numbers above are empirical facts, easily independently verified.
The US has a spending problem, not a revenue collection problem.
Both poltical parties are guilty of reckless fiscal management of the type that if done in a private business would result in termination and possibly prosecution.
The problem is too much government, not too little.
18
@Marc Yes. But many people are irrational. We are in a time of uncertainty and imbalance, where those who appear to be populists are very appealing to the masses. This is the reason that I believe Bernie has the best shot to win the election. I do not believe that Biden can beat Trump, because many people do not think through cause and effect, but rather vote with their feelings. And what they feel is largely influenced by the sea of other's feelings around them.
10
Decreased government spending on education alone does not explain the cost disease we've witnessed.
12
I am a white female who is 61 years of age about to retire as a nurse who has worked 44 years in a large metro hospital. My husband is a non practicing lawyer who I worked to put through school, we also accrued student loans.
I am fortunate enough to have had my parents pay for my education. I have worked since I was 20 years old, through childbirth and law school and student loans, for my husband. we have always lived below our means, saving more than we spend every month. So now we get to retire early.
Although I have received maybe a small tax cut under this abomination of a president and have had no personal problems because of him, I continue to vote against my own interests for the greater good. I can see that he is a danger not only to America but to the world. So I have a problem with empathy to these two young people who want me to vote for their interests when they clearly only care about their interests alone. What about the common good? You can see what a danger he is but will possibly not vote if things are not to your personal benefit?
I'll care about you when you care about anyone but you.
762
@georgiadem He does care about others. He talked of his mother's suffering. He was awoken to politics and the losses of others when he was cleaning out houses that had been foreclosed upon. He knows others in as much debt as he is. The article indicated that he pays for everything in cash because he can't get credit. His debts are medical and educational. Instead of dismissing him, when he's grown up in the world of Rush Limbaugh, why not think about how to reach him without criticizing him.
67
@georgiadem Benevolence is often an act of those with leeway. Giving out alms one does not have is unhealthy and would likely be a cause for worry. It sounds like Mr. Michelz does not feel he has that financial leeway, nor will Mr. Biden help him.
Berating him for not willingly falling in line behind Biden, when he clearly feels a Biden presidency would leave him drowning in doubt, feels misguided at best. Maybe we should address why Mr. Michelz feels Biden would not help his situation and remember we have the leeway he does not.
Remember, everyone has the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Minority rights are a founding principle of our nation. And the common good should not bar Mr. Michelz from pursuing his happiness. Instead, they should be symbiotic - as he feels it would be in a Bernie presidency.
42
@georgiadem Cutting student loans is merely transferring the debt to somewhere else.
Raising taxes from the "rich" is also not practical. What is though is to cut defence spending by at least half.
That will solve your student debt problem and crumbling infrastructure .
Why spend so much on the military? For dominance ? To control the world? It's time to look inward like the past.
16
Thank you for writing this. Countless articles have been written about angry Trump supporters in diners, but almost nothing has been written about young people and the unique difficulties our generation is facing. We are angry and fed up with the status quo. We are tired of being told by older generations to wait and that policies like universal healthcare — which the rest of the developed world has had for decades — are “unrealistic.”
Just as Trump spoke to the frustrations of many, Bernie is speaking to our frustrations. And he is offering solutions that aren’t authoritarian or immoral: he is trying to bring us all together and unite us in a new vision of this country. That is why we are behind him. Democrats and moderates ignore these frustrations and the frustrations of the working-class at their own peril. Joe Biden and other moderates are completely oblivious to the anger in American society. They don’t get it and probably never will. We are livid about Donald Trump, but we also know that beating him only to leave all the broken institutions and structures in place that led to him to begin with, is just kicking the can down the road. This country needs real reform and it needs it now, or we will all lose in the end.
456
@BReed I understand why you would support Sanders in the primary. But if he loses, and the choices are Biden or Trump, if you can't see how much better Biden would be for you personally rather than Trump, I simply don't know what to say.
104
@BReed You've articulated why Bernie was my first choice in the primary. I am sending him money in hopes that our allies turn up to win him the nomination. You, me, and Bernie want the same reform.
If folks don't vote Bernie (or Biden) in November, then Trump will spend those 4 years grinding down the institutions that we NEED to implement our reform: vilify the press; appoint judges who choose corporations & gerrymandering over humans; step-up voter suppression; and more tax cuts for the rich.
Please help me understand your point of view if it comes down to Biden vs Trump:
How do worse-off institutions in 2024 better position our reform than a 2020 November vote for Biden?
65
@Sparky I didn't see where BReed said he was actually sitting this one out or voting for Trump. You make the usual assumptions about Sanders' supporters. Many more of us held our noses and voted for Hillary in 2016.
17
So pleased to read an interview explaining a Bernie Sanders supporter. Just wondering about his employment opportunities though as the Madison, Wisconsin school district's minimum salary placement for new teachers with a Bachelor's degree and no prior teaching experience is $42, 994 annually. This is for the 10 month school year with opportunities for summer school wages in addition. An experienced teacher with a graduate degree and several years experience could earn up to $60-70k. Not sure what the salary scale is for a tire store employee, but find it perplexing that he made that choice. Although, if Betsy DeVoss, Trump and the Republican party had their way, either through secretly infiltrating the teacher's unions and attempting to constantly undermine the value of public education and professional teachers, eventually, if Trump stays in power, the entire wages of teachers may be diminished to minimum wages requiring only high school degrees although a firm and unwavering belief in God and the bible as their compass & map.
8
You know, I wish we had a mandatory high school class in personal financial management. A car with heated seats is a goal? $100k is debt for a degree? Look, these sound like good people but c’mon. Is there a financial planner out there who might take these two on pro bono & maybe we could get a follow up story in 6 months?
53
@Annie
Actually it was the wife’s $100,00 loan for a nursing degree. Just googling, salary range for an RN in Madison Wisconsin is $46-80K which would seem to make it a decent investment, especially with the advancement opportunities for nurses. She should pursue a Masters and beyond, as wallpaper, as it is called in the Hospital hierarchy, really counts in terms of position and salary. The husband took student debt for teaching courses (BA?) but ends up working in a tire shop. That seems like a bit of a waste. He needs to rethink his goals.
9
@Annie And could explain to them that Sanders' programs will not be passed. We will lose the majority in the House and lose more Senate seats if Sanders is tg e nominee. We need more political science taught in schools as well as finance.
5
@Annie There are SO MANY people like them out there. So many. So many. It's just that most NYT readers don't know about any of them except for articles like this.
So, something more than just the occasional pro bono job is needed.
2
The Michelz's are an attractive, young and educated couple. If they do not have children, in 20 years whey will wonder why 200K+ a year is not enough to live on and so many things around the house need fixing. If they do have children, they will scrape by longer and be happy in their 50s when they start to travel and revel in their grandchildren.
4
@Ken They have time.
Thousands did what this man did...refuse to vote for Clinton out of misguided and uninformed belief that there's no difference between a moderate progressive and a thug.
I do fear for the future of democracy when the quality of decisions depends on such ill-informed citizens, who can't be bothered to vote. His own financial situation must be solved by a government to which he has paid no attention?
38
Many Trump and Bernie supporters are actually united in the fact they are incredibly angry being sold out on free trade deals like NAFTA that Mr. Biden and Hillary both champion. The DNC needs to listen to this crowd - if they don't walk back their free trade ideas, they will forever lose key swing states. It won't matter the popular vote because the electoral vote will landslide for Trump. Many Bernie supporters have family members who voted for Trump for the same reasons and are also getting angry that the DNC is labeling all Trump supporters as racists. That's why Bernie is running on a multi-cultural platform and his rallies are filled with Latinos, Middle Easterns, Asians, and blacks - he is saying to those Trump supporters uncomfortable with the racial undertones of the administration, "Look, we share many of the same grievances but our side is more about everyone no matter skin color" Many Bernie supporters are super progressive and others are just tired of of the bleeding of middle class jobs shipping overseas. If the Democrats won't listen to them again, they'll vote Trump and never look back. The Democrats are replaying the mantra from 2016 "Yeah, our candidate (this time, Joe) might have flaws and really bad votes in the past, but Trump is so awful there is no way Trump will win" - It happened once and will happen again. Maybe Bernie is too left, I get that. But Biden? He's just Hillary 2.0
21
@Drew Be practical. The times have changed. Trump ran on change in the trade agreements and China went to Brazil which hurt our farmers and Climate Change because Brazil burned down forest to plant crops and raise cattle. They now sell to China. Sanders won't be elected because he is a Socialist. He would lose House and Senate seats and would not get anything passed. You will get more Trump but worse.
1
You look at Bernie Sanders and you know-This is the leader we were ALL waiting for to become the president of the United States. He is the right guy, he will do justice, he will fix our problems. Bernie Sanders is FOR the People. Bernie Sanders will include ALL OF US in the decision making process. #WeVoteBernieSanders2020.
11
@Michal broken record. Take Poli Sci 101. He is too far left wing, wont win, will lose House and Senate seats and any change from Trump is lost. Please be realistic. It is hard when you young and didn't see this happen before in 1972. We lost by a landslide.
5
@Michal
I respectfully disagree
Is that you Bernie?
Sen. Sanders continues to bring up in his 2020 presidential election campaign unrealistic agenda including programs' lately . The costs of them alone are not affordable , e.g., Medicare for all ? The huge national debt of over 19 trillions dollars , and the Trump era over trillion dollar a year budget deficits , unconventionally supported by Republicans in Congress , has already become an unbearable burden on
U . S. economy per se . In the aftermath of unprecedented comeback of VP Biden in Super Tuesday States' Dems 2020 presidential primary elections . Many of conservatives on financial and economic policy issues , and liberals on social issues will not vote for Bernie either in the balance of States Dems' primary elections . Most moderate conservatives , independents and never Trump voters would vote for for VP Joe Biden for President . Rather also down the ballot candidates , for Congress particularly the Senate , and most electable positions in a number of States . Bernie would hurt big time Dems' down the ballot candidates . A huge opportunity for Dems in November 2020 elections . What do you think ?
7
It appears that this young man only votes when it suits his needs. If Sanders were not running, he probably wouldn’t vote! Again!
31
@Christopher K
I have voted in every election since turning 18, and I’m nearly 60. I intend to do exactly as this man states. Corporate Dems abandoned the regular people long ago. The only way they can redeem themselves is to put Sanders in, and they they won’t. And you’ll lose, but at least you were warned, ...again.
6
Whatever happened to politicians trying to get the people’s vote rather than bullying and intimidating them into it? Blaming the electorate is always a good way to win elections.
4
@Christopher K
Assuming this article is even real. Every 4 years you can read about how the reporter just happened to find the 1 the one voter who has never voted before out of 300+ million Americans. Ever heard of Stephen Glass?
1
Sorry, but the fact that the guy had never voted says all I need and more than I want to know about him.
55
This is a sad story and I am glad it was in the Times !! I am a Bernie supporter and have been for many years. What Bernie wants is what most of the developed countries have, free state and city college and free Health Care but of course it will require a a tax increase of some of us and especially the very wealthy who many pay no taxes. we spend far too much on military in this country and not enough for it's citizens !! This idea of pulling yourself up by your boot straps when we have so many without boots !!! I will vote for who ever the Democratic candidate is but I feel that we need change we are leaving far to many behind in the richest country in the world !! It won't happen over night but we must start NOW !! We must also work like heck on the problem of the environment !!!! We have much work to do to improve this Country for all !!!
6
@MA Preston How would any of his programs get passed if, he won, if we lose seats in the Senate and lose a majority in the House? Sanders is not known for compromise and would get nowhere esp without majorities in Congress.
6
It’s okay for him to have hopes and dreams for who he wants to win. But to say if Bernie doesn’t get the nomination, he either won’t vote or would possibly vote for tRUmp!!!! Unacceptable.
Our country is on fire, four more years of tRUmp and god only knows what we’ll have left of our freedom. This is a really immature, selfish kid that can’t think outside his material wants and his credit score. No respect. None.
What is with these comments? This kinda political apathy happens when people feel like no one's really looking out for their best interests. When all your life, you're made to choose the lesser of two evils, pretty soon you don't even want to choose. How about instead of vilifying this family trying to grapple with their debt, we turn our anger at the deep rot of our political establishment and the wealthy interests that fight relentlessly to protect their own wealth at the expense of people like Mr. Michelz?
22
What Sanders promises to do and what this Gentleman doesn't get, is to transfer this man's debt from himself to others because the debt doesn't go away, it just becomes societies obligation. Student debt should be able to disappear in Chapter 7 or 11. The government should get out of the loan business. Universities should jettison half of their administrators and cut their non career viable programs to lower education costs. This man took on $100,000 of debt to become a nurse, no, we shouldn't allow stupid finance universities, that's the issue.
11
@Tamie I was with you until you wrote "cut their non career viable programs to lower educational costs." Aside from the issue of who decides what's non-viable, consider the social cost of cutting the arts and humanities. A recent poll of CEOs from the Forbes 400 showed that CEOs want and need employees who can "think outside of the box," and work creatively in a diverse group. Creativity isn't generally taught in your average STEM class. Creativity and group work are taught extensively in the arts and humanities. Something to think about.
10
@Tamie Stop making false unsubstantiated claim that the burden will be on other people. This is how you so-called centrist refuse to listen and show compassion,and keep losing elections to tricky entertainers who know how to sympathize with these people in difficult times when the democratic centrist refer to them as deplorables and basement dwellers. Sometimes when people tell you their personal stories, they're not really asking you to rescue them. Sometimes they just need understanding and empathy. Bernie Sanders is being saying repeatedly for many years that he's going to tax Wall Street speculations to pay for student debts and tuition-free public Colleges, because taxpayers' money were used to bailout Wall Street after their 2008 scam led to the collapse of their financial institutions.
4
@Tamie Your government has been in the loan business. The FED has something perhaps a trillion of assess that it has swapped with private bank through "quantitative easing". Why not take another trillion of student loan? Nothing bad would happen perhaps: Bank of Japan loaned more.
1
America is a brainwashed and insecure society.
Every other advanced OCED country offers free college as their societies actually care about investing in their own people., ie their human capital. Even some third world countries offer free higher education as it is a great investment for national prosperity.
America has a ridiculous student debt system in which bankers bought off politicians to prevent debt from ever being dischargeable in bankruptcy.
What amazes me is the amount of resentment expressed by those that somehow managed to pay off their student loans against those that might get their debt forgiven because the corrupt system is finally rectified and brought in line with other OCED countries.
Meanwhile the bankers who paid off the politicians are laughing at all of them. American society is just sad.
25
@CDP there is a middle ground between free tuition for everyone and today’s system. How about we start off with free community college for everyone?
I have sympathy for people with massive student loan debts, but there are much cheaper options than going to private universities. Community college + 2 years at a state school are a fraction of the cost.
14
@CDP America is largely a libertarian country, although Libertarians - and Republicans - will argue that we need to cut red tape and costs until the government is so small it virtually doesn't exist. That's their ideology taken to its logical extreme. The only way out of this is to encourage Generation Z to become 1) politically active, and 2) to get involved first in local politics and work their way up. Not everyone in Generation Z is progressive, but they certainly understand that the current system is set up to bankrupt them unless they 1) have some economic privilege, or 2) really, really know how to work the system.
2
It is sad that there are many people in the US burdened by medical debt and college tuition. I also agree with some of the reader comments below that young people need to know the financial costs of college before they sign on for a degree. Or evaluate educational opportunities outside the US which offer great education at far less costs. Thirdly, these young people can find high paying jobs in the Middle East or Asia that allow then tax benefits and good income to pay off debt, gain better view of the world and opportunities! Staying in their hometowns and being apathetic about their situation is not what immigrants to the US do. Immigrants move with the jobs, work hard, save money, evaluate future moves based on cost and benefit and don't complain!
16
@Sudha Nair I assure you, college students at the community college where I work are painfully aware of how expense college is. As I explain, when decades ago I was in a community college, the state picked about 80 - 90% of the tab, making my costs minimal. Now students pick up that portion and states whine about the 20 - 30% they have to pay.
3
My son joined the Army at 18. He is 20 now. He has saved over $40,000. He has full medical benefits. His college will be paid for when he gets out. And yes, we have the good fortune to help him with some expenses, but one of the most important things we did for him was simple, we taught him not to use debt.
49
It is good, but not everybody has the opportunity to avoid a debt. For example, only few people can pay for house with cash. Renting prevents people to save for house.
5
@Concerned That's great, and I'm glad it worked out for him. Not every young man or woman who joins the military returns home unscathed.
17
@Concerned yes, our military and our programs for vets are perhaps our most popular socialist programs.
2
I said right from November 2016 that it's going to be Bernie versus Biden, and I know that Democrats Will Lose If Bernie Sanders Is Not The Nominee just as it was in 2016. I said the same in Summer 2016 after Bernie Sanders dropped out, that Trump will become the President. And It Came To Past because most Sanders' Independent supporters that I met here in Pennsylvania chose Trump as their second choice. What surprises me most is that some of these Bernie's supporters in Pennsylvania are really socially conservative Catholics that are complete opposite of what I would have thought of Bernie sanders' supporters or a typical democratic supporters before 2016, but they're economically very liberal. They Have No Love For Either Republican or Democratic Establishment; just like Bernie Sanders himself who's also Independent. Many Pundits have no idea what's going on in this country, I'm glad that there's a rare journalist here who took time to go and talk to ordinary people and find out why Democrats lost in 2016. In reality, The Two Major Parties Are Not Republican And Democratic Parties, THE TWO PARTIES NOW ARE ESTABLISHMENT AND ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT PARTIES. I can say without any single doubt that the day you hear that Biden is the Nominee, brace yourself for another defeat in November.
19
I agree. But there is a reason. The DNC is truly cynical. They would rather run Biden and lose then have Bernie be the nominee and lose party power. Ultimately, Sanders has the great advantage of understanding that many Americans view guns as not only their personal property but their heritage. There is a grave disconnect between the Democrats who want all inner city violence related to guns addressed through gun control and the views of the more libertarian rural gun owners who shoot for sport. This is not often spoken of. It is also why IMHO Bloomberg is ultimately weak on the national level. When it comes down to it, the Bernie voters will defect faster in the general election if he’s not the nominee. The DNC is fully aware, unfortunately.
3
@Ukosi Interesting comment. I would suggest that Pennsylvania doesn't mirror the rest of the country in many ways. Also, I'd say that both parties are subsidiaries of the same corrupt conglomerate.
@Ukosi Brace yourself. You are not a fortune teller and not always correct. Sanders was part of the reason for Hillary losing. He is ruthless and will stop at nothing to win. He treats his staff terrible and has no coalitions to pass legislation. Sanders is for himself. The young may like him but they hadn't followed history. He will not win and will cost the Dems seats in Congress. He is not a team player and will not get Democrats to follow him like Trump does. The young are not voting so get used to Biden.
It's notable that the single most empowering move he's considering is to not vote, but that's just the beginning of the problems I have with his perspective and choices. I see another Millennial who, if he finds himself on the losing team, without a trophy, decides he's going to go home and pout. I'm sure he'll read this comment, along with the others, and I hope it makes him seethe.
Among the most empowering epiphanies that one can experience -- and that allows a fully formed adult to take control of their life -- is the realization that the system is not fair and begin to make choices reflecting the understanding. I'm neither lecturing or being condescending. I couldn't be more serious or sincere.
Bootstraps are all that minorities and women have had for hundreds of years -- and they voted their way into the future. Young, white, male Millennial privilege.
43
He works at a tire store. I would reference the voting participation rates of all demographics before judging anyone. Unity is the most powerful force. If you can’t help the disaffected, what’s the purpose of politics?
4
@MAA Or, the Millennial voter (in general) has come to realize that the systems has taken away their bootstraps. Pout and complain, no. Vote, yes. But as we know in national presidential politics, the popular vote doesn't mean squat.
1
@MAA
So in your world minorities in America have voted themselves into the future and everything is great?
Another problem with your analysis— in fact, many people in the lower income brackets don’t vote, whether white or nonwhite, because they don’t see why it matters to them.
6
I'm not sure what Ms. Tavernise wanted me to think or more likely feel after reading this article. I doubt that it was that I think these young people made poor higher education choices. The careers they chose lend themselves to public higher education beginning with community college if their parents couldn't help them financially. It appears that Mr. Michelz did not complete his degree because it is unlikely working in a tire store pays more than what a teacher in his late 20's would earn. That Ms.Michelz has $100,000 in debt makes me think she also attended a private college. Bernie's solution of forgiving their debt would be great if we had unlimited resources, but we don't. I would have thought the financial crisis would have made them more likely to choose the public education route. Sad story but not a great example.
37
@Human GPS I couldn't figure it out either as that made no sense. But if I found the right woman, I think the problem is that she first attended college getting a degree in psychology. That would explain the exorbitant debt (i.e., from a 4 year undergraduate degree AND nursing school).
4
@Human GPS $100,000 over four years. Sounds like tuition at a state college, rent and food, to me. Four years at a private college ranges from 120,000 up just for tuition.
The best way to get through college is to live at home it you can. Choose a good major at a good state college close to home, get great letters of reference, then spend the big bucks at a major university for graduate school, which, in many cases, waives the tuition.
But, not everyone lives within commuting distance to a community college and/or university. Not every young student gets good common sense advice from their elders. In any, event, it's all far more complicated than when I went to college in the 1970s, when states paid upwards to 80 - 90% of tuition.
8
@Bob
Checked out costs - tuition at the U of Wisc nursing schools for BSN averages less than $9000/year. Community college is under $4000. Mean average wage is $68,000.
5
Had the Affordable Care Act been in effect 12 years ago, Michelz might well not have been burdened with that medical debt.
And outright forgiveness of student debt is a bad idea - it may be fine for people who have that debt, but the people who did things differently to avoid taking on such debt will be very unhappy.
There is, however, a reasonable middle ground - refinancing (with government help) that debt to the same interest rate that bankers pay the fed, i.e. 1% or so. At such interest rates that $100K debt would be close to being paid off at $800/month for 10 years. With enough money put toward reducing student debt, some of those past interest payments might also be recharacterized as principle, getting rid of the debt burden even more quickly.
22
@Jim S. I don't favor debt forgiveness but I do favor capping interest at 1 - 2 percent plus loan forgiveness for those working in select areas or professions. I, for one, would make medical, nursing, dental, and physical therapy schools tuition free for those agreeing to work at community health clinics, work in underserved areas, etc. We do some of that but not enough.
17
I don't know how, you think, ACA works, but it definitely doesn't guarantee debt-free medical service. It is convoluted system with complex rules and unaffordable, for many, premiums and deductibles, that is definitely doesn't protect from the debt
4
@Penny Pincher
Excellent suggestions. When I graduated from college, I taught in a school district designated low income. After one year, one tenth of my NSDL debt was forgiven and had I taught for ten years, I would have been debt free.
Haven't researched it lately, but there were issues with Sallie Mae. I think Congress passed some kind of cap, but it's still too high. With interest rates at almost zero, student loan interest is way too high.
7
Missing from this narrative (assuming it veers anywhere near a truthful account) is WHY a 29 year old man borrowed money, obtained things he wanted with that borrowed money, but now wants others (via higher taxes) to pay for the things he obtained with money he voluntarily borrowed but does want to pay back. In other words...why do others need to be compelled by the taxman to pay for his debts?
There nothing moral about getting the government to take money from others give to to him (or hundreds of thousands of others like him) that ran up huge debts in college and are now surprised that owing a lot of money "feels bad."
That's right! It does feel bad.
So don't borrow money you don't want to pay back.
What is complicated about that?
44
What is moral about the society that requires you to take the risk and loan in the order to improve you life, and then blame you that the gambit, he was forced to play, didn't work out? You think it is fair, he doesn't .That is why you are voting for Biden, and he is voting for Bernie or Trump.
6
Oh please; even I’m not a Sanders supporter but I can see what a sham it all is and where this guy is coming from. Schools and corporations will gladly take his money—and profit stupendously from it—and leave him for the rest of his life attempting to scrape by from the scraps of that capitalism. Why shouldn’t he feel completely dejected from this country? No country in Europe will you walk away with that much debt from school!
@yulia
Nobody forced him to do anything, let alone incur an absurd amount of debt to attend a private "small Lutheran college." That's just dumb.
A typical Trump voter, someone who votes against their own economic best interests and supports an economic class that they are not in, nor ever will be in, because people on television and the radio tell them it would be good to do so
21
63 million people "voted against their own interest?"
Have you forgotten who the alternative candidate was?
Keeping that person from the Presidency was plenty of motivation for quite a few.
4
How about a Sander supporter story that comes from someone with an advanced degree who has had a successful life but feels that we are too cruel as a nation and could be both kinder and stronger of we had a more just system. I'll bet that is a common type of Bernie supporter, and would make for interesting reading for moderates, since they could never conceive of such a thing.
25
@Chris Yep, that's me personally (full Professor at 40) and if you include a successful serial entrepreneur businesswoman, my wife. We are well off and pay a lot of our income in taxes (about 50% total including the state and school taxes) but I think the world being happier makes it better for us.
People who are very rich can insulate themselves from all of this strife but it is never 100%. And some of them/us like to be "normal" rather than behave exclusively. One of my friends is one of the richest people in India - we still do stuff the way we did as teenagers.
We're all Sanders supporters so others can have what we have...
14
@Chris That would be me.
1
The Michelz's should consider their Congressional representatives when deciding whether to vote and for whom to vote. It is Congress who passes laws, not the President. Loan forgiveness, health insurance, tax policies are all based on law, laws passed by the House of Representatives and the Senate. Failing to vote at all or voting for spite means they are also failing to vote for the people who could address the issues they believe in.
29
This guy doesn’t even get if Sanders actually won the nomination (he won’t) and won the Presidency, the down ballot losses would be so bad. No Senate, very possibly lose the House. How’s Sanders going to get his pie in the sky programs past the turtle? Answer: he won’t.
4
Well, but very often the choice for the Congress has exactly the same limitations - either Rep or moderate Dem who is not much different than Rep.
2
@B G
From reading the article I'm guessing he's not a Constitutional scholar.
1
“Sometimes yeah, I feel shame,” he said of his financial situation. “But I fight it because I know it is not of my doing.”
I'm sure it's not all his doing, but he too could have also researched details about student loans, it's all over the internet on YouTube videos, scholarships, the GI Bill, getting a second job, saving up for a semester to test out the waters, going to a local school, etc. etc. there's only so much society can be responsible for the decisions you make.
Maybe your one saving grace is you have to pay cash for everything.
And you want to have a family?!? And then even vote for Trump.
The future is looking bright.
21
@Moodbeast I get your point, unless you're a superstar, scholarships don't cover but a fraction of tuition. The GI Bill is for vets only, getting a second job - you mean two jobs while also going to college? Right. Loans are pretty simple. There are no details to research. You sign, you get money, you're in debt. The problem is that states no longer cover the majority of the costs of tuition like they did in the 1970s and 1980s. It's flipped. Students pay the majority of the costs.
One strategy rarely covered is to be dirt poor and make sure you kid is brilliant. They'll get a free ride.
2
@Bob Plenty of people work and even have kids and still make college work. My nephew spent 6 years in the Navy and they paid a majority of his tuition (which I thought was the GI Bill). Sure it delayed his graduation but you can’t sign a loan and not read the fine print, but I understand most people don’t. But some people are disciplined and truly persevere.
When the going gets tough, some people find solutions. Other find something to blame.
4
Its notable that the only solution he brings to the table is to not vote.
78
Well, this one hit the politicians where it hurts, right?
While I believe we need universal health care and a student loan debt payback strategy that is achievable, this is not the year, nor is Bernie the candidate. Goal 1: Remove Trump. We need a candidate who will take as much of the moderate vote as possible and we need stability. Bernie offers neither. Bernie’s election could also cause a global market upheaval that could make COVID 19 look like the kiddie rollercoaster. If the gentlemen in this article and others in his situation decide not to vote for a non-Bernie nominee, we’re doomed for another four years of muting parts of the evening news. Too much at stake. Not a fan of Biden, but definitely not a fan of tRump.
20
@Michael C Goal 1: Remove Trump. Goal 2: Make sure we don't have another couple of decades of Republican or corporate Democratic rule.
2
@Michael C
“This is not the year”? When is the right time - no time like the present!
This made me weep for these two young people. I can’t believe some of these heartless comments. Really? $100,000 in student loans? Medical bills from when he was a teenager still dogging him? You can’t get out of debt with a low paying job and pay rent, car, student loans etc. try it some time.
I appreciate the author writing this and hope to read more about what the normals go through in this heartless society called The United States of America.
We need the change that Bernie Sanders is trying to make.
25
@Not Rocket Science I'm not certain why an 18 year old (and not his mother) was saddled with $24,000 of medical debt and why that wasn't discharged in bankruptcy long ago. I think we all agree that would have been a completely acceptable thing to do (and medical debt is why we're all trying to figure out what the best way forward is on health care). That said, WHAT HAPPENED TO COLLEGE COUNSELORS? Why wasn't someone at the high school and college (in conjunction with the mother) talking about wise career and financial choices? With $24,000 in personal debt, how did he get school loans? Also no mention is made of Pell grants or scholarship money, plus work study income. I keep getting the feeling - from a lot of the stories about the student loan debt - that all of these factors are lacking.
17
@Penny Pincher Pell grants pay a fraction of tuition costs. And bankruptcy for medical bills is difficult and ruins ones credit rating for years. It's actually better to be in debt. Bad credit = no loans. Debt = more loans!
2
@Bob
"And bankruptcy for medical bills is difficult..."
No, it isn't. It's very easy. And who cares about his cedit rating; it's already shot.
"By 2012, Mr. Michelz was attending a small Lutheran college in Minnesota...He went to college, just like everybody said he should, but is now working in a job that does not require a degree."
"[S]mall Lutheran college" = private, expensive. More expensive than in-state public university tuition, presumably.
That the school was in Minnesota suggests that Mr. Michelz went away to school and chose to incur all of the extra expenses attendant to that decision (room & board).
If "everybody said he should" jump off a bridge, would Mr. Michelz have done it? Honestly! If Mr. Michelz didn't want to enlist in the military, he could have found an apprenticeship, and gotten paid to learn a lucrative trade.
While I do sympathize with the misfortunes that befell Mr. Michelz as a child and with his health at 18, I do not sympathize with any of the irresponsible decisions Mr. Michelz has made as an adult. Actions have consequences. Why should Mr. Michelz be spared the consequences of his own actions?
27
@Rebecca My suspicion was that he couldn't get into a state school. In Texas, for example, you have to be in the top 10 percent or higher of your high school graduating class to get into UT - Austin.
1
I can't blame young people for being angry. I was just as unsettled in my 20s and early 30s, passing through many dead end jobs because my degree in history prepared me for nothing in the real world. The huge difference is when I graduated from college in the late 70s, my student loan debt was under 5,000. I can't imagine what my life would have been if I had the debt load these kids have. it would have made my life hopeless.
18
I have sympathy for their financial plight.
And I understand the need for change.
But I don’t understand the attitude of ‘if my candidate doesn’t get the nomination then I’ll vote for Trump. Or I won’t vote at all.’
This is not some high school prom or fantasy football league — it’s our lives.
102
@NJ If I could recommend your comment One Million Times, I would. I agree precisely.
9
@NJ
I did have to read that line several times. I still cant work out the logic.
1
I can see there's still hope with people like Mr. Michelz considering the best option to make this country work for everyone, not just the 1%.
Hang in there.
Do think very deeply before voting for Trump if Sanders isn't the D candidate in the fall. While Trump styles himself as an outsider, he's actually the product of the monied elites who think that if only their needs were met, there'd be enough left over after satisfying their appetites for money and power that it could allow a little to trickle down "voluntarily" - as they'd prefer - rather than doing anything to fundamentally change the political-economic equations that protect their wealth at the expense of the public good.
Trump serves himself, while trying to convince the rest of us that this will serve us all. The Ukrainian arm-twisting is an excellent example. tt was all about how he could benefit - until he got caught, then it was all about how he was just trying to fight corruption. Our political-economic system is fundamentally corrupt - and Trump's proposals to this point only deepen that inequality and exploitation.
Good luck to you and your family.
10
I can’t even. The cost of college is insane. My parents paid for my Cal State education. My mother joked how my tuition cost what she made as a clerk selling cards in a department store. That school now costs $3K a semester and I don’t think hardly any non- managerial worker in a department store makes that in a month let alone a week.
5
Take a look at the lavish buildings that have no doubt been added to that state school since you graduated decades ago, just like at virtually every other state school. Then take a peek at the lifetime retirement benefits given to the government employed teachers and administrators at those schools - often 90 percent of their salary for life as well as lifetime healthcare...all taxpayer funded. Add in the trillion and a half dollars of loans funneled into colleges from the federalized student loan program creating excess demand which drives higher tuition. Eventually it becomes pretty clear that the government is the problem here, not the solution.
Bernie and his crank leftist supporters want more taxpayer funded government spending as a "solution" to the problems caused by earlier taxpayer funded government spending.
Odds are good that's not going to solve anything.
3
@Sam California State is $3000 per semester?!?!? That's CHEAP! Penn State is about $15,000 per semester for residents. They must have paid for your education a very long time ago.
When I read and article like this I know the comments will be rife with the moral hazard folks. The ones who walked to school in snowstorms with newspaper shoes. The planners who could figure it out, etc. Lets look at facts. 1. The US is the only major country in the world without a form of SP or NHC. Thus here a young kid can get hurt and live with medical debt (read someone made a profit on his pain and suffering) other places.. nope. 2. Mr. Michlez got trained to be a teacher a role we once honored.. he makes more money working in a tire store. 3. His wife is a nurse a critical job in the US and is mired in debt. I could go on but the fact is the society and economy are broken. I did not need Sen. Sanders to figure that one out. As for the moral hazard darwinists they dislike me in real life. I call them out for exactly what they are and make my distaste known. They deserve to be shamed and shunned. It is hard to dehumanize them as they have done that themselves.
32
Young kids are not responsible for debts incurred under the age of 18.
Where were the parents ?
Was he injured in a car accident ?
@Robert Thank you! The people who scream the loudest about how young people don't need help and should be forced to pay thousands of dollars per month for 30-40 years are the very same people whose parents and grandparents were wealthy enough to pay their way through college years ago when it was cheap. They are also very foolish. Nowadays, you can barely get a job anywhere without a degree. Furthermore, if a way out is not found soon, millions of people will simply default, and that will cost taxpayers billions.
The truth is that a political and economic revolution is coming no matter how much the elitists in the beltway or the multi -millionaire and billionaires plutocrats try to prevent it from happening.
10
There comes a time in every democracy when the person you believed in and voted for loses. It happened to me when Al Gore lost in 2000 to George Bush. I was very tormented that the future of the US was going to be gloomy. But then I thought if Al Gore had won his home state of TN from where he was elected senator before Bill Clinton took him on as Vice president, he would have become the 43rd president and not Bush. I was still unconsolable and I thought I would be more productive if I turn to doing something good in the south western tip of Africa and get my mind out of the politics that was about to ravel the worst presidency of any president. There was 911 and the US went mad and panicky and attacking countries that had little to do with 911` and initiated regime change wars. The worst of times had begun and I was right all along that the loss of Al Gore was not something that was going to be palatable to my conscience.
I wish the country had voted just as I did but my faith in democracy was not shaken.
7
My faith in democracy as an ideal was not lost when Gore lost the election but my faith in the US constitution was sorely tested. If it were not for the electoral college, Gore would have been president. Instead we got G W Bush and a lot of insanity. The same dammed thing happened in 2016. The electoral college gave us Donald Trump instead of Hillary Clinton. And Trump has been a million times worse for this country than Bush. The electoral college was an eighteenth century compromise designed to appease slave owning states. It serves no purpose now except to interfere with the true will of the people. As far as I am concerned it cannot be abolished soon enough.
Reading the story of this couple makes we want to cry...or scream. Are they crazy to think that there is no difference between Biden and Trump? Where have they been for the past three years. The environment, human rights, international agreements, reproductive rights, civility, honesty. Just to name a few key issues in which Biden will be radically different from Trump.
Biden certainly isn’t perfect and may offer "conventional solutions" but if he wins the Democratic nomination, what sort of message does Mr. Michelz think he will make by voting for Trump: that it's more important to be spiteful and petulant than to think beyond oneself? That is surely an argument bound to lead to four more years of Trump and the continued destruction of this country.
35
@David W
The issues you list are the kind that people with good paying jobs and a secure future can afford to worry about. This couple is not so fortunate, and somebody like Joe Biden has no plans to change that. You can hardly expect someone who is barely surviving to "think beyond oneself," when nobody is thinking about them. Calling people like this "spiteful and petulant", rather than trying to understand them, will guarantee four more years of Trump in the White House.
4
This is precisely what I expect from a fellow citizen. Citizenship is not about what have you done for me lately. If you want to vote for our leaders, think like a leader.
I don’t believe in democracy anymore.
And what about climate change?
There’s a pretty stark contrast between what the Trump administration is doing to poison our air and water and continue to heat up the plant through their policies, and what Biden’s proposals include to help keep our planet livable.
For this reason ALONE it’s imperative that we vote blue no matter who.
18
Easy answer...dont take on debt. No sympathy for those who over-extend themselves.
5
Mr. Michelz can thank Joe Biden for some of his financial problems. Indeed, Joe was an enthusiastic backer of the ‘Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act’ (BAPCPA), backed by Banking industry, made it harder for people (primarily working people, students) to declare Ch 7 bankruptcy. He also supported Bush II’s invasion of Iraq in 2003, which led to the creation of ISIS and has cost US taxpayers circa $6 trillion, so far (see- Costs of war; Link: watson.brown.edu/costsofwar). By engineering a Biden ‘victory’ on Super Tuesday, the DNC and their corporate backers have effectively blocked Bernie Sanders from getting the Democratic nomination in July. Not surprisingly, we are now seeing a Joe Biden ‘makeover’ by the DNC and corporate media who are busy promoting him as ‘moderate’ or ‘centrist’. The reality- Joe Biden never saw a weapons system, war or corporate interest he did not support. Following his ‘wins’ on Tues, Dow was up > 1000 points, driven by healthcare stocks, who correctly anticipate there will be no changes in the health industry- these companies will continue making $ billions in profits from working people, whoever wins in Nov. Unfortunately, of all of the potential candidates, Joe Biden is the weakest, barely able to put together a coherent statement. Thus, the biggest winner from Tues was Trump. As for Mr. Michelz and millions of people in similar financial shape, they are, as the saying goes, S… out of luck.
27
@Paul Exactly. Yet self proclaimed progressives are busy whining about the online "nastiness" of a few alleged Bernie supporters, rather than the vividly real and wounding nastiness of Biden helping banks and credit card companies break families, and the nastiness of Biden's support for the Iraq War, leading to piles of corpses, thousands of maimed veterans, and as you note, a $6 Trillion price tag.
Hearing people who know how to vote in their interests is quite refreshing. I feel totally opposite about people who, ignorant of policy, voted for Biden, ‘cause, say, Clyburn told them to. Biden has threatened Social Security and Medicare. Biden voted with W and the banks to practically ensure that a person in financial trouble can’t file Ch 7 bankruptcy and make a new start. He voted for the Iraq War. Why would any middle class or poor person vote for Biden? He’s NOT your kindly uncle. Finally, the down-ballot issue re Bernie is just a red herring. There.
15
This piece should end with ""paid for by the Trump campaign. Perfect portrait of a Sanders supporter. A modern Democrat. Could not be less sympathetic if it was intended to be a hit piece. "His financial instability was not some individual failure" "But I fight it because I know it is not of my doing." Right. All your failings are someone else's fault. The man's foot on your neck. That is not how it works and if you think it is you really will never do better.
34
He waited till he was 29 to start voting.
1
After Trump's 2016 victory Thomas Frank ("Listen, Liberal") was among those who eloquently outlined the ways in which the Democratic Party had long since abandoned its traditional constituency of rank and file Americans to align itself with the economic elite. Joe Biden, of course, was among them, and I'm afraid the preponderance of the evidence is that he hasn't changed all that much.
If he turns out to be the Democratic nominee I'll vote for him, but with the strong suspicion that a Biden administration, like that of Clinton and Obama, will continue to align itself primarily with the interests of Lloyd Blankfein (who recently indicated he'd might vote for Trump over Sanders) and his ilk rather than the many US citizens who struggle economically.
Meanwhile, it would be helpful if the Times and other media spent more time covering Biden's and Sanders's policy proposals in a reasonably objective manner and far less time on various aspects of the horse race, including pieces like this.
15
The NYT should review this man’s finances before publishing his financial complaints. How much money does he earn, how much does he spend, and what does he spend it on? I am all for helping people who are taken advantage of or who have the wind knocked out of them by large, unanticipated and unavoidable events, but I have no desire to feed a sense of entitlement, excuse poor financial decisions, and/or reward those who don’t know how to be frugal. Without the underlying financial facts, I have no way to evaluate his complaint.
45
It chills my blood to think that someone like Mr. Michelz might vote for Trump because he thinks Joe Biden won't adopt policies that might help him and people like him. Does he not see what Trump has tried to do since his accidental election in 2016?
Is he unaware that Trump and the Republicans tried their best to get rid of the imperfect ACA without any alternative to protect the people? When the legislative attempt failed, they brought suit to try to get the courts to do the job.
Does he see any attempt by the Trump administration to help people who have problems with credit? Their record of appointing judges who will side with corporate interests ought to be enough to disqualify them.
If the family has children, will Republicans do anything to make help them address the challenges of child care? Maybe Mr. Michelz ought to give that some thought.
Trump won the electoral college victory because people like Mr. Michelz didn't vote or voted for "protest" candidate. It was narrow. I had hopes that they might have learned a lesson, but apparently not.
124
@Betsy S The people who didn't learn the lesson are the moderates who insist on centrist, bland candidates like Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden. Young, angry voters like this are NEVER going to vote for Biden. That's just a plain fact. Rationality is dealing with what IS, not what you wish would be.
13
I realize college is more expensive now, and I have to wonder if the push for so many to go to college is wrong. In my experience there are many kids going who are not ready for it or just doing it to get the diploma or because they don’t know what else to do. Then they go to college and end up not getting a great job, but having a ton of debt. I wonder if that is part of Mr. Michelz’ case? Did he need it to work at the tire shop?
There are also a lot of people who seem to want to get graduate degrees, but then can’t pay for it. Why? If you don’t see the math adding up, then don’t do it, or get grants and a TA-ship.
If you can’t earn enough to make college worth the cost, then why would you want the rest of us to pay for it? (Conversely, if the rest of us were paying for it, why would you not go to college, ready and interested or not?) Without this huge supply of in-debt students, it seems to me that colleges would have to start rethinking what they’re charging people. Businesses might have to start paying for the schooling to get college-educated employees.
It is really rough that Mr. Michelz started out with tons of medical debt. We have to figure out something smarter on that end.
8
@Karen
Why not change the system so that school districts are not rated based on how many of its students go onto college? Why not change the system so that school districts have to go back to offering technical training (we had auto motive, cosmetology, etc. at my high school) as options for work right out of school, instead of telling students that they have to go to college to make it? Apart from that, we need many students to go onto college because we need doctors, nurses, research scientists, teachers, etc. These professions allow our society to function. They are as important as the roads, which we seem to have no problem paying for.
3
Mr Michelz is a bit lost. He was in college to be a teacher but instead took a job in a tire store? Did he even graduate? Did he do any teaching? The article never addresses those questions. He seems for someone who has some education not to be smart enough see the difference between Biden and Trump. He seems to get most information from TV. Has he been reading about Trump administrations plans like doing away coverage for pre existing medical coverage etc.
I’m sorry to not see the difference and what Trump policies are doing to people like himself he is not paying attention.
But in one way I’m glad he isn’t teaching because he would not be very inspiring
49
@Martin Lennon
In some states teaching doesn't pay a living wage and sadly, many teachers choose to work elsewhere.
12
@MC
And yet he took out $100k in loans to become a teacher.
Sounds like he just doesn’t do much thinking or planning. And now he feels he deserves a very large hand out.
Sorry. No.
2
Nothing left to lose? If Trump continues in office, you will lose so much more. I so badly wanted Elizabeth or Bernie to win the Democratic nomination. But it is not to be. In November I will vote blue no matter who.
42
Bernie's promise of student debt cancellation and free college are as credible as Trump's promise that the "wall" will be funded by Mexico.
So maybe it is not illogical for Sanders supports to vote for Trump as their second choice. Both Sanders and Trump inspire magical thinking and promote easy, but unattainable "solutions".
32
I sympathize. But even if Mr. Sanders gets the democratic nomination, and even if he is voted into the White House, it would not help Mr. Michelz. Mr. Sanders' tuition-loan bailout proposal stands no chance of getting past the Senate/House/Supreme Court.
19
@MLL
It truly won’t stand a chance if you don’t try.
Voters like Mr. Michelz are why I believe Bernie has a better shot at beating Trump than Biden does. Mr. Michelz is not political but he supports Bernie. He's hardly a "Bernie Bro" but he's unlikely to go to the polls for Biden, who offers him nothing. I understand why he and other young people lack enthusiasm for "corporate Democrats." I completely do not understand, however, that he might vote for Trump. That is about the most self-defeating, destructive thing he could do.
18
In response to Lauren Greenspoon (NY TImes pick)
1. The property tax deduction was capped at $ 10 000
If you can afford to live in a house that pays more
than $ 10 000 in annual property taxes, than you are
well off, even in a high tax State. (The U.S. Census
Bureau lists the annual median personal income at
$31,099 in 2016 and it has not moved much since
then)
2. Trump, did improve some aspects of the working class
From VOX
"Trump's new trade deal is better for workers than
NAFTA was"
"But the most striking difference from NAFTA involves protections for workers in all three countries. Mexico has agreed to pass laws giving workers the right to real union representation, to extend labor protections to migrant workers (who are often from Central America), and to protect women from discrimination.
American auto companies that assemble their cars in Mexico would also have to use more US-made car parts to avoid tariffs, which would help US factory workers. And about 40 percent of those cars would have to be made by workers earning at least $16 an hour — three times more than Mexico’s minimum wage for an entire work day"
Sadly , the "Center" Democrats had 8 years to do something for the working class - and did nothing. Enter Sanders
10
@LArs And where were YOU doing those 8 years that you somehow have managed to ignore the fact that Obama tried to do was completely blocked by Congress?
1
It’s really sad to see all the comments condemning this couple to their fate. What happened to American compassion and generosity? If you’re more concerned with having to see Trump on TV than trying to figure out how to pay for medical bills or food, that’s great for you, but don’t expect the unquestioning loyalty of people who need meaningful change.
32
@Kasper Selvig We are not condemning them to their fate but I think most of us see the solution as being part governmental and part personal. I, for one, can't figure out why that medical debt wasn't discharged in bankruptcy long ago. No doubt that debt is carrying a mean interest rate! with lots of fees.
2
@Kasper Selvig What is so terrible about their fate? If he's making more than a teacher, and she's working full-time as a nurse, they should be grossing at least $80 or $90k. Income and payroll taxes will be about 21% (I did the math), leaving them with $5 to $6k per month for housing, health insurance, cars, food and debt service. Definitely doable in Madison. One of them, probably he, needs to get a second job and they need to stop worrying about heated car seats and buying flowers. Then they'll be fine down the road.
5
@Kasper Selvig they are great-looking presumably healthy young white Americans. They are luckier than I ever was. Life is hard. Paying your debts can make you “weary” sometimes. Your actions have consequences. I should not be forced via government power to pay this young man’s college debt. This Soviet mentality has an incredibly dark side. In history, it has meant that let’s give everyone a piece of farmland. Oh no, a famine has begun. Let’s ask the experts what to do... oh wait. We intimidated or killed the high achievers so... I guess we will just get used to the poverty now.
Sounds like financial management advice is needed for this couple. With two steady jobs, I would be amazed if it weren't possible to restructure debts, have some debts forgiven or reduced (especially medical bills dating back more than 10 years!), eliminate or reduce current expenses, and enable them to build savings. I've helped family members who were in similar straits, with good results. It DOES take planning and discipline, and selectively doing without, or with less.
As for the politics of the matter, it sounds like this man hasn't really given much thought to what his vote means. Refusing to vote, or amazingly voting against one's own interests, are the reasons why we're in this fix, victimized by a party that doesn't care.
40
It was the Obama administration that federalized the student loan program, with people like Elizabeth Warren becoming wealthy from the 1.5 trillion dollars of government school loans funneled to colleges where folks like her taught.
The loans were made by the government. The people who voluntarily borrowed the money, did so from a government run program.
The debt is owed to the government.
Why should other taxpayers be forced to cover these loans for people who voluntarily borrowed the money?
How is more government a solution to a government caused problem?
3
@Robert
Arent there banks that offer credit cards specifically to rebuild a credit score?
I somewhat sympathize ; but upon reflection know throughout the decades and years others have suffered the same demoralizing effects but somehow managed to better themselves and their situation. It is up to each individual to make their way ; no one can be a savior , they can promise anything but in the end it is thru hard work and prudence that one can do better . We all are free agents and it is our individual choices that decide where we end up .
11
@sm My experience with the social darwinists is they are the people least likely to survive the real challenge when they come. They usually couple that view with Libertarianism which is the height of intellectual bankruptcy.
3
@sm How do you do that when all you can do is try to pay the monthly interest on your debt? Why do Americans care more about not taxing multi-millionaires than making sure people can get medical care without going bankrupt? It’s absurd.
5
@sm spoken like a boomer. The economy is far more heavily stacked against younger and lower income people than at any time in the past 100 years.
I was worried about what comments might be made about this couple, thinking EVERYONE would feel sorry for them and their self inflicted plight. Thank goodness NYT readers are smart and objective. (Really, heated seats, flowers, and manicured nails. What other non essentials you spending money on?) I had a coworker complain to me about her and her husband’s student debt...in the next breath she told me they were going to Laos over the holidays. Good grief, when will people learn that you have to pay your debts and only spend money on essentials if you need to pay off debt and save money. Essentials are housing, utilities, food, and medical care, nothing else....
126
@Charlene
Hold the wealthy to the same standard. They excuse debt all the time.
7
@Charlene So you expect them to live an empty, meager, banal existence completely lacking in any good times at all, spending every dime of spare money on debt for 30-40 years until the rocking chairs claim them and they are too old to have any enjoyment at all in life. Okay. I get it. They must be PUNISHED for the rest of their lives. I get it.
5
I was worried about what comments might be made about this couple, thinking EVERYONE would feel sorry for them and their self inflicted plight. Thank goodness NYT readers are smart and objective. (Really, heated seats, flowers, and manicured nails. What other non essentials you spending money on?) I had a coworker complain to me about her and her husband’s student debt...in the next breath she told me they were going to Laos over the holidays. Good grief, when will people learn that you have to pay your debts and only spend money on essentials if you need to pay off debt and save money. Essentials are housing, utilities, food, and medical care, nothing else....
9
I find it baffling that people are willing to follow a "Democratic-socialist" who is a millionaire. Owns several homes and is elite in himself. That is as bad as Trump claiming to care about the middle class when he knew nothing about it.
19
@David
Being a millionaire at 75 and over is fairly easy: regular savings while you work, one small inheritance or two, wise investments in reputable mutual funds, paying your credit card balance in full every month, and, bingo!, one day you notice you no longer have to worry about money.
8
@David Bernie earned his money through writing a bestselling book. As for 3 homes—he has one in VT and has to live in DC when Congress is in session. His wife inherited a cabin. I’m not a millionaire and have only one home, but this seems reasonable to me. Billionaires do not.
6
FDR came from old money and was incredibly rich, yet was a liberal for the masses. I guess I don’t see your point.
2
I find it baffling that people are willing to follow a "Democratic-socialist" who is a millionaire. Owns several homes and is elite in himself. That is as bad as Trump claiming to care about the middle class when he knew nothing about it.
2
@David public schools the fire and police departments local state and federal governments social security Medicare Medicaid unemployment and food stamps are socialist. America is a socialist-democracy in many ways. Henceforth, you are a Democratic socialist,
Just probably not a millionaire.
3
Why should their debt be forgiven? They made their choices to incur the debt. No pity here! Even if Sanders were to be elected, he could not enact his policies. The congress would not enact any of his policies. Let these stories be a lesson for those graduating from high school in the future. Just because you go to college and get a degree in not a guarantee that you will get a job related to your degree. You are not going to buy a three bedroom house, a new car, and live a carefree life. You are going to have to take whatever job you can get, work hard and hope you can work your way up to where you can afford what your parents have worked a lifetime to earn. If you incur debt then make sure you can pay it off or suffer the consequences. Look into some of the trades instead of college, like plumbing, electrician, carpenter, automotive repairman, etc. Those skills will probably earn you more and faster than any college degree. Common sense will get you further in life than a college degree. Without common sense, college degrees are worthless.
28
@Paul Except that their parents' education cost a fraction of what theirs did, decent paying jobs are fewer and further between, and upward mobility has reversed -- this generation of young Americans will be the first in American history to have a lower standard of living than their parents. But, hey, you got yours, right?
6
@Paul The article notes he had a medical emergency... so he chose that... come on try some basis in the actual data.
3
@Paul How is his medical emergency a “choice to incur debt”?
Have you been reading the Times coverage of for-profit colleges? They are very much predatory in their recruitment of young people and encouraging them to take out student loans that they cannot realistically repay for decades, and cannot discharge through bankruptcy, thanks to Congress.
3
I have a relative who has been in various colleges for years. He always takes out the maximum in student loans, and lives like a king. New cars, vacations, etc. When he flunks out of one school, he applies to others. Not surprising, he is very in favor of student loan forgiveness.
25
I am left learning person who was inspired by Bernie in 2016, but have been lukewarm about his candidacy this time around. I think he’s sold himself as a savior, that he alone will be able to fix his supporters problems, when in reality we all know that politics is a team effort. How would Bernie pass his ambitious agenda with a hostile senate, and potentially hostile house, especially given his uncompromising attitude and his lack of concern with alienating potential supporters? Biden doesn’t offer a lot of hope and inspiration, but at least his candidacy may mean a few more moderate dems winning house and senate seats, which may mean some modest, progressive policies actually getting past. Will this be enough to address the inequality at the root of populism these last few years? Probably not. But it’s the most that this less than idealistic almost 40 year old can hope for from the way our system is currently rigged.
19
How about moving to European Union?
We offer:
Universal healthcare - no medical debt possible
Free or low-cost higher education
Gun-free societies
Paid maternity leave and sick leave - essential during the pandemic
Higher live expectancy
Healthier food
Basically all necessities to make sure that no one is left behind. Even in not all rich country as Poland.
56
Thank you, all things we Americans should aspire to.
Unfortunately, the system in the US is permanently rigged to benefit the rich and cannot be changed easily.
On top of that Americans are obsessed with arrogance and brain washed into thinking, it is the best country in the world not matter what horrendous life they may have. What a big lie.
I’m happy to say that I have been able to escape that inhumane system and now live in Japan. A beautiful country with all those benefits and more. I thank the gods often for my fortune.
11
@Humane Capitalist If you are interested, in a worldwide standard of living index, Poland is ranked 36th, while the US is ranked 13th. We are 20 points behind 1st place, and Poland is over 30 points behind the US. There are 2 dozen European countries ahead of Poland. And actually, our healthcare is rated a little ahead of Polands. You were saying?
9
@Humane Capitalist
Yes and the US pays out 3.2% of its GDP for defense and you pay out ~ 1.4%.
Your protection from Russia is on our backs.
6
"This country has socialism for the rich, rugged individualism for the poor." Martin Luther King Jr.
This is exactly the system Mr. Michelz is living under, and so many Americans blindly believe this system is not in effect. I paid my student loans too, but I do not begrudge the students of today and the last 20 years the right to get out from under this crushing debt. Little did they know when they went to school that our jobs would be sold overseas to such a degree that they would have to pay loans with service job wages from the 1970's, with no possibility of being free of them. This system of student loans is a boondoggle for the wealthy, plain and simple. The loan may not even start out at $50,000, but quickly the fines and every other sneaky charge the system can come up with will make that loan grow exponentially. The problem is not that this war in the U.S. is Republican against Democrat, it is a class war that is crushing everyone in some way or another, whether it is medical debt, school debt, housing debt, you name it, The 99% are squeezed every day and until we see our fellow Americans as one group against the tyranny of the 1%, we will continue to suffer at the hands of the 1%.
54
@mary
I'd have loved a fresh start after college instead of paying Sallie Mae so if we as a society can do this for young people, it'd be a very meaningful use of our tax dollars or stock trading fees if that's how it gets funded.
And I'm pretty sure we give Israel, Egypt, Jordan billion upon billion of dollars so why can't Americans get some loan relief?
3
My heart goes out to this young man--who is nearly the same age as me. The tragedy he has had to endure, and the ways he stays hopeful. Trying to be the best husband he can and make a living. Despite all the reasons he has to hate, he demonstrates compassion.
32
@Erik Grasso
Many Bernie supporters see that a vote for any corporate funded candidate on any side is the same. This is exactly what happened in 2016. The corporate media starts to endlessly scare people about Bernie and convince people that the moderate is more electable. Then all the establishment figures endorse their candidate further convincing the mainstream they are more electable because they won a bunch of states democrats never win anyway. Then the net effect is that the mainstream of democratic voters elects the mainstream moderate corporate funded candidate. The progressive Bernie supporters see it happen again and again and they stay home or vote for Trump in spite. Then tbere is low turnout on the left and the right have their legions voting (because they nominated their Bernie) and DEMOCRATS LOSE AND WONDER WHY. Obama didn’t give a public option and he lost progressives and democrats got killed in the midterms, the red wave in 2010. He got re-elected with ease because Republicans ran Romney and didn’t have their Trump yet. Biden has been funded by credit card companies in Delaware, and over saw the redistribution of foreclosed homes to big banks, rather than to individuals. This will not fly for many progressives and Bernie supporters. This will depress the outcome on the left, while the rights will be maximized. There is only one way to defeat Trump and it is for all Democrats to get behind Bernie’s legions of supporters and maximize turnout.
22
@Erik Grasso
Right you are! In 2016, I did not see much difference between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump (both out for themselves, not me or "us"); this year, I do not see much difference between Trump and Biden.
If Bernie Sanders is the nominee, I will vote for him in November. If it is Biden vs. Trump, I will vote for someone else, or write-in Sanders' or Warren's name. This business of "voting blue no matter who" is just plain nonsense if the "blue" candidate is Biden.
11
Trump will thank you for your purity when he is re-elected.
1
@Fran
Just vote for Trump.
1
He could jump from Bernie Sanders to Donald Trump?
Some people aren't rational. That potential flip from one extreme to another indicates to me that his historic decision making probably hasn't been all that clear. And maybe that is how he finds himself in his current situation.
I wish him all the best. But people do make problems for themselves that society can't always fix.
40
@Will. I was thinking the same thing. If Sanders first and Trump second are his decision making skills, he needs to improve them. Nobody else can.
8
@Erik Grasso
Many Bernie supporters see that a vote for any corporate funded candidate on any side is the same. This is exactly what happened in 2016. The corporate media starts to endlessly scare people about Bernie and convince people that the moderate is more electable. Then all the establishment figures endorse their candidate further convincing the mainstream they are more electable because they won a bunch of states democrats never win anyway. Then the net effect is that the mainstream of democratic voters elects the mainstream moderate corporate funded candidate. The progressive Bernie supporters see it happen again and again and they stay home or vote for Trump in spite. Then tbere is low turnout on the left and the right have their legions voting (because they nominated their Bernie) and DEMOCRATS LOSE AND WONDER WHY. Obama didn’t give a public option and he lost progressives and democrats got killed in the midterms, the red wave in 2010. He got re-elected with ease because Republicans ran Romney and didn’t have their Trump yet. Biden has been funded by credit card companies in Delaware, and over saw the redistribution of foreclosed homes to big banks, rather than to individuals. This will not fly for many progressives and Bernie supporters. This will depress the outcome on the left, while the rights will be maximized. There is only one way to defeat Trump and it is for all Democrats to get behind Bernie’s legions of supporters and maximize turnout.
4
Someone should explain to him that the banks paid back their loans with interest.
15
@Ken m Someone should explain to YOU that average folks were not given the opportunity to be granted loans that they would have paid back with interest.
11
@Ken m The premise is incorrect. The Financial services industry fought for GLB and to repeal Glass-Steagal. They consolidated risk activities and commercial banking. They made bad to fraudulent loans on a massive basis and securitized them passing all risk to the market. This meant that the banks had assets that were worthless and we faced a potential run on the banks. Instead of doing what FDR did with a bottom up keep them in their houses approach to dealing with those assets the government bailed out its paymasters leaving the people, you know the taxpayers, to have their lives ruined. Facts, well documented and one of the reasons real change needs to be made.
4
@Ken m But they did not have to pay interest at the same rate as student loan interest, which is MUCH MUCH MUCH higher.
4
I too have a job that is not at all related to my degree (from a small Midwest state school). Why? Because I found that in order to live the kind of life I would enjoy (aka not worrying about bills), I would need a different career.
The thing about a college degree is that if you're motivated and not afraid to start at the bottom, that piece of paper still opens so many doors. 20 years later, I've worked my way to a very comfortable living in the financial industry in Boston. No connections or doors left ajar for me to walk through.
As a son of a of blue collar truck driver (my hero) I can testify that those boot straps still provide a lot of leverage to pick yourself up! And using them will cost us all a whole heck of a lot less than Bernie's giveaways!
17
@TM Hmm. What institution so I can avoid it. As you clearly are not aware of the deep changes in the economy and in levels of opportunity in the past 20 years.
1
This man is right, medical is unaffordable and student loans like Trumps loans should be subject to chapter 7 or 13 bankruptcy. The real question is why more Trump voters don't vote for Bernie. Should leave Trump rally to go to Bernie rally, why don't they?
13
It's sad and somewhat tragic that so many voters cannot distinguish between Republican and Democratic policies.
Medicare and Social Security exist because of Democrats. Democrats are why people with pre-existing conditions can get healthcare. Democrats gave us the Voting Rights Act. Democrats defend women's reproductive rights. Democrats believe in climate change and common sense gun control.
These are ALL policies Republicans oppose.
Is there structural inequality in this country? Absolutely. Do Democrats need to do more? Yes. There is an entire administration waiting to be built. IF WE WIN. A Senator Sanders can pass a bill that a President Biden can sign and vice versa. That will never happen with a Republican president.
Democrats..people, please understand we must come together as a party. We cannot afford to fight amongst ourselves. This is what Republicans want. It allows them to win elections and stay in power.
Bernie Sanders must stop aiding Republicans with his anti-Democratic Party rhetoric. It is toxic, it is misleading and it is dangerous.
30
It is hard not to sympathize with these folks. But then I hear Sanders rail against Wall Street, banks, every form of energy company, Pharma, biotech, big tech, venture capitalists, and “corporations.” Basically, Sanders wants to hobble pretty much any job-creating entity. So when these poor folks get their loans paid off with a one-time payment, there will be even fewer jobs for them than there are today, and fewer people to hire them.
8
@LTJ Incorrect also. He is driving for a regulated form of capitalism and enforcement of the laws we have and had.
2
Let’s talk about structural inequality. Next please do a profile of the elderly African American man in Texas who waited over 5 hours to vote. Seems to me he’ll have a different take about what’s at stake this election and why he felt so strongly about exercising his right to vote. I doubt he’ll vote for Trump because his candidate dropped out. Then again most people don’t have that luxury (or White privilege).
40
Where do nursing programs cost $100,000? I'm sorry but something is just not right here.
20
@elaine
As a recently retired APN (Advanced Practice Nurse) & clinical instructor of Nursing in a large University, I can attest that while it’s possible to take on that kind of debt for a 4 year BSN degree, it is absolutely not necessary. In fact, it is so unnecessary that I question the judgement of anyone doing so. Nursing is a wonderful profession to secure stable, intellectually creative & spiritually rewarding income - but it is easily possible to achieve that career goal without such crushing debt.
16
25k/yr for 4 yrs. even state institutions can be that high.
13
@elaine
My daughter is going back to school to leave her career as a Physical Therapist’s Assistant to become a Physician’s Assistant. It is going to cost her $100,000. She has the stuff to become a doctor, but not the years and the $300,000 it would cost.
And we have a doctors shortage.
5
I don't understand the logic of the Bernie-or-bust crowd. If Biden is the nominee, will they really stay home? That's a vote for Trump.
Biden may not favor Medicare for All, but he supports a public option, which even AOC thinks is a move in the right direction. He also supports tackling climate change. Biden won't be around to see the worst of the climate devastation, but, at age 29, Mr. Michelz certainly will. And it will be worse for his children. Trump is taking people off of healthcare insurance and is actively making the climate crisis worse.
I support Joe Biden. But, if Bernie is the nominee, I won't just vote for him. I'll actively campaign for him. Biden and Bernie are much closer to each other than they are to Trump, who is a cancer on this country and must be removed.
39
@David
Because they don’t trust those who left them for dead!
I am the same age as Mr.Michelz, plus coming from a poor immigrant background. Somehow, I managed to avoid student loans for undergrad by going to an in-state school and living with my parents. My grad degree was paid for with my own money. If Mr. Michelz grew up in Michigan, why did he choose to attend an out of state college in Minnesota? Going out of state increases one’s cost of education substantially.
67
@Kateryna and why at 18 was he not covered by his parents' insurance? Not blaming him, of course. It just seems strange that an 18 year old can incur so much medical debt. And agree about the cost of the wife's nursing degree. Of all professions, nursing is probably where you have the most options as far lower cost education. And where were these kids' parents? Someone definitely dropped the ball with these two.
3
@Kateryna Well hooah.. the moral hazard post predictable as I noted. Make sure to get to the Wizard before the Tinman.
1
Sometimes yeah, I feel shame,” he said of his financial situation. “But I fight it because I know it is not of my doing.”
Well, here’s one of the fundamental problems today. People are unable to recognize that their choices (eg going to a college that was too expensive) are unequivocally their “doing.” And that they in turn own the repercussions of their choices.
One can blame, or resent, the socioeconomic conditions and the bankers, executives, politicians, and lobbyists that caused the 2008 market crash, or made many colleges too expensive to attend, and healthcare complicated, inefficient, and unrepentantly overpriced.
But one’s specific choices made within the current reality of our society — this or that (or no) college versus learning a trade, rent or buy, lease or own — will deliver consequences, both good and bad, right and wrong, expensive and cheap, that the individual must accept as a result of their “doing.”
29
I’m astounded, simply speechless and astounded.
I agree with Mr. Michels on pretty much everything he says, but I’m astounded that he apparently can’t see that the Republican Party has sabotaged and is sabotaging EVERY effort by Democrats to make life for people like him a little better.
Increase minimum wage? Provide affordable healthcare? Allow Medicare and Medicaid to negotiate drug prices with big Pharma? A massive tax cut that benefited the wealthiest Americans at the expense of people like him? A grotesque amount of money whizzed away on the military? I can go on and on, but I’m sure you get the point.
Astounding!
13
People like this should travel more (even if on a shoestring) to developing countries. Yes, Brian, you do have something to lose. Can you drink the water? Do the lights come on when you flip the switch? Are there roads? Is your currency (even if you don't have much) worth the same tomorrow as today? This is a great example of someone who lives in an American bubble and thinks all these things are givens. They aren't, and your vote deserves more thought than "who cares?" By all means, vote what you believe. But take it seriously.
25
@Scott D. Carson Meaningless and not relevant. I did all this an in the 70s and 80s in Sri Lanka, Taiwan and Colombia. In the last I worked as a volunteer in some of the worst slums in Bogota. I also support Sanders and Warren's views.
3
It might be comforting for a person like Brian to feel that Sanders feels his pain but Biden doesn’t. That Trump would improve his situation more than Biden. The truth is that even if Sanders won, he could not get his programs through the House or Senate. Democrats have always done more than Republicans for people like him....think Social Security and Medicare.
12
I was an avid Bernie supporter in 2016 and canvassed for him (first time doing that ever). I voted for Liz last week but it was a close one deciding between the two. If Joe Biden wins, I don't think I will vote in the fall. I don't live in a swing state and I already voted in 2012 for a person I didn't want to vote for.
I don't have the same exact problems that Mr. Michelz has. I live in New England. I was a top performing student growing up and went to a top 5 undergrad (on almost full financial aid), got a STEM degree, many accolades, and then got a doctorate from another top 5 university. I don't have student debt because I saved enough money through my doctorate to pay for it. I had and can get a >$100k job if I go looking for one.
While on the surface, it looks like I'm not like Mr. Michelz, I have the same disillusionment. As we are the same age and came up during the same economic environment of the Great Recession, I feel that doing everything I was suppose to do is not leading to me the financial security, work-life balance, and achievement of the American Dream that was told to me growing up. $100k doesn't get me very far here. $150k doesn't get me very far here. I can go on about this, but the reality is that although everyone has jobs (low unemployment), people have not even a fraction of the security they used to. Bernie may not be very likable amongst his peers, BUT WHO CARES?! I think nytimes columnists really need to make some NEW FRIENDS with real people.
11
@Carrie Disillusionment is common in many parts of the country -- maybe in New England because the high cost of living and faster pace of life creates a disillusionment different from that experienced in other regions of the country. Does your community offer opportunities to get involved in the wider community to give back somehow? Shift the frames of mind.
2
There are many differences between me and this man, but I also don't think I've ever read an article in the New York Times that has ever felt so close to home. I think it's interesting that so many comments here express so much negativity towards him - these are the people who keep me an independent instead of a democrat (though I NEVER would vote Republican). This negativity is especially interesting, considering all the coverage given to the untrue narrative that Sanders supporters are uniquely toxic online.
12
@Richard A big portion of Third Way Ds are I got mine with frosting of social conscience around a cake of stone.
Question for people like Mr. Michelz is: How did your life change for the better with Trump in the oval office? It didn't improve mine. In Fact my taxes went up.
15
So, you made bad decisions and now you want the rest of us to bail you out. Yep, that's a Sanders voter all right.
31
@K. Edwards
He was saddled with medical debt he'd never incur in any other rich industrial democracy, but of course that's his fault for getting sick or injured....
What I'm really interested in, however, is consistency. Did you oppose the bank bailouts? What about Trump bailing out agribusiness? Or the hundreds of billions in annual corporate welfare, under administrations of both parties?
Are the "rest of us" getting our money back?
3
@K. Edwards "It started with an ambulance ride when he was 18 and two hospital stays." Yep he got up and said lets have a terrible medical problem and those hospitals are cool places to hang out. Come on. It is literally the first sentence of the article.
2
What bad decisions did this kid make? Was your last trip to the ER a “bad decision”?
Zero Fed rates, who is getting them?
2
I think there is much more to Mr. Michelz's story than we are led to believe. I also think his is a common story of someone who had high hopes for himself and even higher expectations of what the world owed him.
In debt at his age is not too uncommon but, usually, it is for tangible things like house and car. A hundred thousand dollar college loan has to be paid since he did sign for it. If he became a nurse, he has the opportunity and potential to earn a fair income. What really happened?
Bernie Sanders isn't his savior, hard work and a plan is. Time to turn 30 and stop lamenting the past.
24
@R L Donahue Again do people read. The first sentence lays out his lack of agency. He was training to teach and his wife is the nurse. Before you tell people to grow up from the soap box on high maybe get the data correct.
Did you read the article? His wife is the nurse; the debt is hers and she’s paying it. His debt comes from trips to the ER.
Sander’s promises are just ear candy which he can’t fulfill and whose only goal is to inspire disenchantment among the understrivng. Mr Michelz fits two categories of debt forgiveness that would be addressed under Bernie’s mega-welfare for proposals, medical and student. Will the next progressive candidate, AOC perhaps, in 2024 also promise mortgage debt forgiveness for anyone under forty just when Mr Michelz is in the market? The article doesn’t say what Mr Michelz does for a living which is a major omission, or what he got his degree in. But to express such a willingness to throw away his vote, or vote for Trump even, does not mark him at age 29, as being the sharpest tool in the box. I wouldn’t say he would have a bright future even under a Bernie Presidency.
15
@Patrick
It seems to imply that he was studying teaching at a small private Lutheran school in Minnesota.
@Patrick Sentence one has no basis in fact. The article clearly notes Mr. Michelz is working in a tire store and trained to be a teacher. Before you comment on how sharp other folks are well....
Please, if you are a Sanders supporter who is thinking of voting for Trump if Bernie does not win the nomination, think of the damage you will do to people whose emotional and spiritual health has been suffering since 2016. Also, read this NYT article: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/06/opinion/biden-2020.html?algo=top_conversion&fellback=false&imp_id=766674691&imp_id=97407075&action=click&module=Most%20Popular&pgtype=Homepage
20
@Pam
That will be the point of their votes. The establishment may have their corporate media and their billionaire donors and the Democratic Party cannot win without our support. I am a typical long term Bernie Progressive and I will continue to withhold my vote probably rather than all out vote for Trump, but I know many that will in order to continue to teach the establishment that you can not win without us. Do you remember last election when all the political commentators has to admit they had it so wrong? Don’t you remember them saying the same things about Hillary they are saying about Biden now? Can’t you see the same thing will happen again and Biden will lose. So you should trust me and support Bernie! He is the only way to equal the enthusiasm on the right and beat Trump!!
6
@Pam
We will be voting for Trump instead of Biden or withholding our votes and refusing a choice between bad and worse on principle and to teach the DNC ESTABLISHMENT and the moderate supporters that you may not love us but you can not win without us. Our vote is our only power and we are trying to use it wisely and screaming out to the establishment. If you truly do not want Trump, support Bernie!
4
@Erik Grasso
The thing is, with that attitude, which was apparent the last time around, why would more center oriented people not do the same to Bernie? Sit home and watch Bernie wither, and say, well, by next time he will be gone.
5
In these comments I find a remarkable number of Americans, in their lack of empathy for and understanding of Mr. Michelz, who are oblivious of social reality and just plain selfish. Mr. Michelz didn’t grow up learning about the American oligarchy. It’s not his fault that the narrative sold by the American educational system and, by the way, the American media, is false from beginning to end. Instead he had to discover it by himself, and by the time he did he didn’t know what to do with the knowledge. Those who criticize his or his wife’s educational debt neglect that neither of them were likely to know that these same educations would be free in Europe. They were young and did what seemed right. The political establishment (read: oligarchy) has been brainwashing Americans for two generations into believing that the injuries of class in this country are their own fault. Thus Mr. Michelz feels himself to be an insufficient provider, and thinks it’s his fault. 1971 Lewis Powell, then just a hack Republican politician, wrote what came to be known as the Powell Memorandum. (See: Wikipedia.) The goal was to convince ordinary Americans that the system was just fine and their problems were of their own making. Powell and his successors were brilliant propagandists, and Mr. Michelz is another of their victims. To blame him for having been brainwashed by experts is stupid and callous. He’s one of many millions, a majority of whom will, in their brainwashed Ignorance, vote for Trump.
62
@ADN Sadly , it all became a business ; evident by the medical bills , the shark loaning of student loans , the media that only broadcasts what will sell , sans the truth , and we all know what happened with housing . It has all along been a Republican plan , but we eat our own too . We have become divisive and victimize each other by propagandizing of the truth and became our very victim .
7
Or they will vote for Biden.
1
@ADN At what point do we presume that Mr. Michelz, possessing a college education and a brain, can read and learn about what's going on right now, and what the effect of voting to continue this Administration would be.
At what point to do we grant Mr. Michelz has personal responsibility to move beyond the situation he was planted in?
Asking for all the disenfranchised who are currently being punished and will be thrown on the pyre for another four years.
8
I pulled myself up by my bootstraps. My son went to college and paid off his tuition which was huge. He worked. When years ago I found myself in debt I got creative - had three jobs worked seven days a week. This guy is a loser who just wants someone to pay his bills. He wants the kids who never went to college to be taxed by Sanders to pay his tuition.
34
Looking at it from not so rich European country, it seems kind of irrational to be put by the system to have to work 3 jobs 7 days a week.
8
Do you think people should have to pay for K-12 education as well? Calling someone a loser because he thinks that society as a whole should place more value and help pay for higher education collectively shows a lack of empathy. The reason many people are in the situation of having large student debt is precisely because they were actually trying to do what they thought was right and help themselves.
7
@Joe We do pay for higher eduction in the form of community and state public colleges. This man chose to attend an expensive, out of state private college to pursue a degree that he did not complete to work in an industry for which he did not study.
1
The "what will you do for me" generation...maybe they will grow up in the near future.
34
@archcc.art Then what’s your solution? This country will have more older people than younger people in the near future. We need young people who have good paying jobs with the ability to pay taxes and social security to support us “old geezers” in the years ahead. You don’t want the undocumented—even though most pay taxes and social security taxes (which they can’t collect on, by the way). Maybe it’s time to stop being judgmental and focused on ideology and be practical. We need young people. This country won’t survive without them. If you don’t approve of debt forgiveness, think of other ways they can “earn down” their debt that actually works and won’t leave them working like indentured servants for years.
This young man's suffering is palpable. He has experienced a great deal of pain in his life, and is understandably looking for some relief, which is not unreasonable. But he needs to take a bit of a closer look at each Biden and Trump before he plans to go Bernie or bust. Our nation's future will take significantly different paths as a result of either Trump or Biden winning. It's been badly damaged in the last three years. We need stabilization, repair to our economy and to our relationships. That is the job of the Democratic nominee, whomever he may be.
42
Thanks NYT for this profile and insight into this young man's life and his troubles. It's great to see people in their 20s paying attention and connecting the dots that the politicians we all choose to elect affects the outcome of our lives. I hope Brian will drop any possibilities that he might vote for Trump, if Biden is the nominee. Biden is boring, confused, and centrist, but he cares infinitely more about people like Brian than does Donald Trump.
65
Many Republicans and Democrats in the electorate like Brian Michelz crave an anti-establishment figure. Most Democrats crave an anti-Trump. And many Democrats will vote blue no matter who. But if you look at polling data from many key mid-west states including, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio and including states like Pennsylvania and Texas; the data shows that Sanders can steal some of Trump's anti-establishment thunder.
Professor Brian Schaffner of the University of Massachusetts showed us that as many as 1 in 10 Sanders primary supporters voted for Trump in 2016. You might argue, “Sanders is a socialist.” But that doesn't seem to matter with respondents like Mr. Michelz. What matters to them is that Sanders isn't from within the conventional party apparatus. Can Sanders win? Definitely. Will he? I have no idea. But without a large number of Sanders supporters we are looking at four more years of Trump.
The questions become: How many Trump/Sanders voters are Democrats willing to lose if we nominate Biden? Will Biden supporters really vote blue no matter who? And, how many Biden supporters will Democrats lose if we nominate Sanders? Both camps say they offer a big tent. But whenever I lean towards Biden I recall the big tent of the Clinton campaign four years ago.
29
@Gregory Diedrich: I'm a Biden supporter, but unlike many Sanders supporters, I'll hold on tightly to my wallet and reluctantly vote for Sanders. Anything's better than four more years of FAT DONALD.
7
For anyone thinking, "Why should I have to pay for someone else's decision to go into debt?", Sanders' plan, as inconceivable as it sounds, would be to forgive student debt by taxing Wall Street transactions. That's the plan for his bill, just so you know. Don't shoot the messenger. In Sanders' words: "If we can bail out Wall Street, we can bail out kids."
Even if none of this applies to you, even if you can't possibly empathize and all you feel is disdain for these misguided millennials beginning their adult lives in debt and believe they should suffer for their lack of pragmatism when they made that fateful and devastating error to enroll in college at the tender and credulous age of 18 -- you have to admit that Sanders' logic is kind of delicious.
48
@AF
Your talking about taxing everyone that saves. Who work hard to try to provide for themselves and their families and secure their future. Warren and Sanders criticize banks for nickle and dimming away the savings of working Americans yet in the end they just want to reserve that action for themselves.
7
@Daphne
What? Sanders* is talking about taxing Wall Street to bail out students, not working Americans.
4
@Daphne No he is talking about taxing a set of transactions that are 99% speculative and produce nothing. Unless a stock or bond is an initial offering, the primary market, it is all speculation. Your post has basically no foundation in fact and shows very little understanding of the financial markets or how financial services companies work. I count among my former clients Deutsche, Wells, Zions, Silicon Valley Bank, Visa and the SF Fed so what do I know on how things work.
Unfortunately, too many people cannot see beyond their pocket book. This is how we ended up with Trump.
38
Hey, that’s what trump said about African American voters in 2016. Well, they, and the rest of us, have lost an awful lot.
So having nothing to lose is really not a good voting strategy.
10
But in 2016, Sanders did speak to his concerns enough to get him involved. This cycle, he was open enough to listen to another candidate, Yang, who he rooted for. The point now, is he is engaged enough to want to listen, think and vote.
8
@Matt Unfortunately, he has a lot to lose but is too unaware to know it.
2
@Cliff probably cause Yang would give him a thousand dollars.
It is very sad that the Democratic party is no longer appealing to the white working class. Leaving aside Senators Sanders and Warren, not a single Democrat has ever talked about the possibility of refinancing educational loans at rates that big banks borrow- as a first step in helping people with stifling levels of educational debt. The Democrats peddled hope and change for eight years under Pres. Obama, but as Mr. Michelz notes about Mr. Biden as a President,"But my life probably wouldn’t change if he became president. I don’t think other peoples’ would either. So, what’s the point?”.
Indiginization of the value and supply chain (= more labor participation rate), along with strict enforcement of workers' rights, eviscerating the medical industry's corrupt practices, and levying wealth tax (as championed by Sen. Warren), can provide real solutions to alleviate the working class distress.
Otherwise, what is the point of voting?
31
@Zor Re-financing is acceptable. Demanding that taxpayers pay off those student loans is not. Many of us chose not to go $100,000 into debt for a nursing degree. Many of us worked our way through to pay for schooling. It’s unacceptable to now tax us (and we will be taxed, one way or the other) to pay for others’ schooling also.
10
@Zor Re-financing is acceptable. Demanding that taxpayers pay off those student loans is not. Many of us chose not to go $100,000 into debt for a nursing degree. Many of us worked our way through to pay for schooling. It’s unacceptable to now tax us (and we will be taxed, one way or the other) to pay for others’ schooling also.
5
@Ariel Fails to consider the push over the past 20 years to get a degree and the wiping out of the manufacturing job base in the US. Or the broad systemic risk that the $1.2 trillion in debt has created and the current Fed data showing a big portion of consumer debt over 60 days out.
3
Many people commenting have stated a lack of financial responsibility. The article states that his debt began when he had an ambulance ride and two hospital stays when he was 18 years old. Blaming an 18 year old for this is wrong.
95
@penney albany Yes, lets seriously take a look at reducing the uninsured from a medical perspective. But in no way should the rest of us be footing the bill for debt at private colleges where the education doesn't lead to the ability to repay the loans. Kids should be able to study whatever they want to the extent they can pay for it (and lets not overlook the affordable state universities). Loans should be evaluated on the basis of the expected ability to repay them.
17
@penney albany The tarnished and whithered parchment proclaiming the Individualist as master of their fate along with ye olde protestant "work ethic" now rings hollow in the hearts of the disenfranchised. Their trust funds never existed. Savings depleted, Farms foreclosed and Factories shuttered for arbitraged foreign labor, returning big yields for the "investors". There is no inter- generational wealth. There is no inheritance. I understand these young people. There will be a reckoning.
13
@Engineering Prof. And we should apply exactly the same calculus to the financial industry next time they "need" a trillion-dollar bailout for free. I.e., in about six months...
18
When will people see the cost of College education is organized thievery. The fact that you can't get a job to pay off the cost of the education should tell you how Big Education needs to be reeled in. I have no interest in paying for other peoples education, I am already taxed repeatedly for the schools we have. I have never took a loan for any car or home I couldn't afford to pay off while I used it or lived in it. Student's should do the same while they go to school (like my wife did).
12
@USVictor
If he was foolish enough to go to a private school for a teaching degree that's on him.
I’m curious to see how all the Warren supporters who now support Biden respond to this. Warren just said two months ago that she would forgive the entire $1.6 trillion in student loans owed by borrowers. This would have significant political consequences had she been elected and followed through on this pledge. So do they agree with Sanders on this or did they disagree with Warren despite the political fallout that would have resulted?
17
@BK Her reasoning is valid, economically. No different than the corporate welfare handed out the Big Banks and
Investment Firms that crashed the economy in 2007-2020. That is an Infusion of 1.6T of new income this next generation can spend on housing, autos, consumer goods that can have a stimulating Multiplier Effect for economic markets. We see the Systemic Risk associated with the pie-in-the sky version of Globalism w/out Fair Trade model by a contagious viral pandemic. Massive Economic Uncertainty and a woeful response due to domestic manufactures ability to supply critical testing kits etc.. Why the indignation for those of the working and middle class trying to be achievers in a landscape of low-paying salaries. They are not the Entitled, Legacies and connected minions from the financial sector relying on generational advantages through Elite Universities or Trust Funds. I worked at an S&L during the reagan deregulation in the 1980s...watched the foreclosure notices pile up on the loan officers desks. People were arrested for those criminal acts, yet nothing was done to the con artists running PI and Hedge Fund schemes in the Mortgage backed loans fraud. The financial establishment ergo the status quo of concentrated wealth and Inefficient distribution of wealth.
7
@Bjornson
I didn’t opine on Warren’s reasoning for this proposal. However, this is a proposal that is similar to Sanders’ and would have significant political consequences. So why would a Warren supporter, presumably one who believes in her ideas and understands her reasons for entering politics, move to a candidate, Biden, who completely disagrees with Warren on this issue and many others? Do these people not have any core political beliefs?
6
Because Sanders is too far left.
I know several intelligent millennials with crushing student debt (or knew people with) who threw their vote to Bernie to make the point that he is speaking to their financial situation. But this fellow clearly isn’t serious about taking care of his financial problems if he would consider voting for the Don, unless he is considering becoming a foot soldier. And if he thinks the Bern, who willingly accepts Putin’s disinformation assistance, is real, I gotta a bridge..
9
2010 Obama loses super majority in the red wave - why? He lost support of Progressives by failing to offer a public option.
2012 - Obama wins re-election.
Why? Because turn out on the right is worse than the left due to Mitt Romney
2016 - Democrats lose to Donald Trump, despite their candidate being “the most experienced prepared candidate ever”, and the first woman president
Why? Because the lost the support of Progressives
2020- Democrats will lose to Trump again, if they don’t learn the lessons of the past and nominate Biden as the nominee
Why? Because they will have lost the support of Progressives, again...
14
@Erik Grasso : You give progressives a lot more credit than they deserve:
1) Obama offered a public option, but Dems in congress couldn't pass it.
2) Obama won re-election because he was a good President, and people liked him. He still has very high approval ratings.
3) Dems lost the election because of Trump/Russia's social media campaign. It was extremely effective, and targeted exactly to the electoral districts they needed to swing the electoral college.
4) Dems will win if their smears on Trump are more viral than Trump's smears on them. That's all it comes down to.
8
@Erik Grasso your 100% right. it will be another bernie or bust election and trump will win again. sorry but it is not a zero sum game.
1
@Erik Grasso
A very simplistic characterization that sidesteps key pieces of reality—not helpful in these very fraught times.
I’m not sure what the point of this article is.
This individual isn’t really political, comes from the middle class, and will vote Sanders mainly because Sanders has promised to cancel his huge educational debt, not because of anything else Sanders is saying.
Ok, thanks, that’s mildly interesting... and also mildly depressing.
98
I think it was an excellent article of what certain people are facing, their evolution(which can be ongoing) of thought, and how they are acting or reacting to the situation in which they find themselves.
17
I support some type of “reform” of the runaway costs associated with attending university. I’ve read proposals to make 2 year colleges no cost and proposals to reduce the cost of 4 year schools. However, I don’t believe a university education should be free. When one has a financial commitment to something, it focuses the mind (or should) on carrying through on the commitment to it’s conclusion. Having no skin in the game would give many a too casual sense to stick with it. Upon successful completion, maybe some sort of debt reduction could be engineered; the better one’s GPA at graduation, the better the debt relief deal becomes. Just an idea.
10
If you are not interested in people's motivation to vote, how will you pitch your candidate to them?
7
Mr. Michelz, your financial situation makes me sad for you and your wife. When I was a child, hard working men like you had union jobs with good wages and benefits. Somehow, some way, we must again find work with benefits for Americans.
My first vote was for George McGovern. I was an avid supporter and I was crushed when he lost. In the fifty years since then, I have learned a lot about politics and about reality.
Bernie Sanders’ speeches and commercials are great. But look at his accomplishments as a 30 year national politician. He has not put any of his plans and ideas into effect. He spins a great story, but there’s nothing to demonstrate the practical application of his ideas. How much did it cost? How was it be paid for?
Further, Sanders is not electable nationally. The Republicans will brand Sanders with his own words as a socialist and those commercials will play 24/7. In my neck of the woods, people will not vote for a socialist. And their vote against “Bernie the Socialist” will cause them to vote R on the entire ballot.
A vote for Bernie is not only throwing away your vote, it will help to give Trump free reign to do what he pleases. There will be no Congressional oversight.
Today Mr. Michelz, there is still a path to a better America. But we are in a very dangerous place and if we don’t choose wisely, we are going to lose everything.
98
Where did it state he was “hard working”? I’m not saying he isn’t, but I do know that when my father was saddled with his college debt and my mother’s college debt, and a mortgage, and a newborn baby, all on a starting teacher’s salary, he taught school during the day, worked in a gas station at night, a lumberyard on weekends, and a factory assembly line during the summer.
That was a hard working man who accepted his debt as his “doing” and did something about it.
17
Michelz doesn't see the point to vote for Biden. You are saying Biden has the ability to make changes, but he hadn't made much changes beneficial to the people like Michelz. The question is why should Michelz vote for Biden?
11
Exactly! If it’s so bad for them, either get higher paying jobs or MULTIPLE jobs. Plenty of people have had to, while raising families.
1
The only sustainable way to prevent this from happening is to allow this debt to be discharged in bankruptcy. This will magically cool down the lenders' desire to loan thousands of dollars for pointless degrees and rapidly bring down school tuition costs.
31
@Dakota T and everybody … How come we never hear about this approach to student debt from any of the candidates for public office?
4
@Dakota T
It would also raise interest rates, and make college even less affordable, for the 96% of borrowers who do repay their loans. Why penalize the responsible students to subsidize the others?
@GMooG
You are correct, interest rates would come up.
That would most likely be markedly offset by the drop in tuition prices. There is a reason that tuition is rising so much quicker than inflation with inflated admin base. It's that the money will come no matter what the price is and the debtor will pay no matter what.
1
I understand he is not willing to vote for Biden if Sanders is not the nominee. But what is his point of voting for Trump? Can the
Trump administration solve his debt problem? His voting for Trump would be more likely a revenge vote.
28
@mh
I bet you he doesn't bother to vote at all. He does not seem like a motivated individual.
Bernie is aware that only revolutionary like tactics will redirect the present system. Womens right, black rights. labor rights happened by folks taking it to the streets getting bloodied and killed to bring about so basis rights as: the right to vote, the right to be be free and not owned property, the right to make a decent wage and a 5 day work week. The basic rights for health, a public education, day care, the right for economic equality. These basic rights that shouldn't bankrupt you. I'm afraid these rights will take revolutionary like action to happen. Centrist democracy is corporatist democracy. Vote Biden for that folks and pray you don't get sick or have children wanting a college educate or have to turn down a job due to the lack of affordable day care or work hard maybe 2 jobs for less than a wage you can live on. Meanwhile the system favors corporations whispering in the ears of our politicians and pouring money into their coffers cause corporations are people very very rich prople. Politicians spend 10s of millions getting re-elected. Not to mention the immediate action required to deal with antropormorphic climate change not sure centrists will have earths back here as well.
16
God help him if this young man thinks voting for Donald Trump is the answer to his problems. How can anyone who believes in the proposed policies of Bernie Sanders possibly think that Trump and the Republican Party is the next best alternative? Please explain, because that makes no sense to me.
45
@PJ The explanation is fairly simple: Biden been a central part of a system for 40 years which has led to a lot of these folks' problems. Trump has only been a part of the problem for 4 years, and has at least claimed he'll solve their problems. For someone who hasn't studied the issues carefully, Trump is the obvious option.
12
@JS. Looks like he needs to start studying the issues more carefully then.
1
All you really had to say was, he hasn’t studied the issues.
An economic system built around encouraging consumers to indulge, while paying those same people as little as possible in their role as workers.
A political system that allows the plutocracy to rip out as much as they can, to the detriment of the rest of us.
Healthcare, education and other institutions that see their roles as accumulating as much as possible for a minority, while raising prices for the rest of us.
And if you don’t earn enough, go into debt to finance your education, your healthcare, your basic living, none of it tax-deductible as it is for companies.
Individual responsibility? A farce when the system is so messed up. Three hundred million Americans cannot be wrong.
When the system is built on the one-sided exercise of power, it takes a countervailing power to correct it. The GOP’s feudalism must be destroyed.
19
I completely understand why Mr. Michelz supports Bernie in the primary. I support Biden, but if Bernie wins, I will vote, donate and volunteer for him.
But I hope Mr. Michelz will do the same if Biden wins. Trump has shown that he has no interest in the lives of ordinary Americans and no interest in American values like the rule of law or even democracy.
To suggest there is no difference between Biden and a wannabe dictator who is using the Presidency to fill his own pockets is beyond insulting.
37
@Sparky How exactly is President Trump using the office to "fill his own pockets"? He's donated his $100G quarterly salary to different initiatives since his inauguration, including his latest to the Department of Health and Human Services to help combat the coronavirus.
And how exactly can you claim he has "no interest in the lives of ordinary Americans"? He's the first post-Cold War president to actually protect American sovereignty and citizenship (instead of diluting it with mass immigration and industrial-scale relocation of jobs to China), to take steps to protect the lives of the unborn, to protect the First and Second Amendments with zeal, etc.
I didn't vote for either Mr. Trump or Mrs. Clinton in 2016 because I thought they were both buffoons, but President Trump has proven that he is a champion of liberty and of "the little people." His many foibles and flaws aside, he has proven he's deserving of a second term. Liberty-minded Americans know the alternatives will not suffice. If he votes for Mr. Sanders, Mr. Michelz has "nothing to lose" but his God-given, Constitutionally-protected liberties that our ancestors fought and perished to earn and keep.
1
@CDinnison All bunk. He cannot donate his salary to any Federal department. Not possible. His golfing alone has cost well over a hundred million dollars all going into Trump properties and his pocket. His trade policies have not resulted in one job being onshored. The lack of structure to them has simply led to a shift to other low cost countries. He has actively worked against the press, press freedom and has lawsuits against the press which fail on any basis due to the 1st amendment. He has proven he is the champion of deregulation, corporate greed and handouts to the rich. All facts and well documented.
2
@CDinnison Charging Secret Service more per room when he's at his club in Florida. Having diplomats stay at his hotel. Remember, he never put his assets into a blind trust. If he had, he'd have taken away a major complaint by the opposition. You gotta wonder why he didn't.
1
Mr Michelz embodies what is meant by white privilege. He’s had tough times and been a dealt a difficult hand. But when he says there is no difference between Clinton/Biden or Trump that’s the embodiment of white male privilege. First I disagree with that absurd statement entirely. But second if you are a woman or minority on this country there is a massive difference and Mr Michelz doesn’t care. It’s only about him and his. I hope Bernie can successfully address that attitude if he is not the candidate
98
Agree 💯! Let’s talk about the elderly African American man in Texas who waited over 5 hours to vote. He understands what’s at stake and it’s NOT “Bernie or bust.”
14
@Dana
Yes. I don't mean to be cynical, but I agree. He would be happy with a (justified) handout from Bernie; if not he'll take white privilege from Trump. He has no concern for anyone else, including the right of his wife to have control over her body and any future pregnancies.
5
"Should Mr. Sanders lose the nomination, some of his supporters — tired of being offered conventional solutions — could sit out the general election, or vote for Mr. Trump or a third-party candidate." --- Isn't this true for everyone? Did this person say what he would do or is the writer just posing possibilities? I think this is irresponsible, perhaps misleading... as is the lede since the article doesn't actually answer the question posed. If a writer is going to report then just report and don't speculate. If they want to analyze then explain the choices and what each would or could mean either for that person or the public. Frankly I'm not sure what the purpose of this front page article is. It's not informative. Nothing new. And by the way, while the debt is different, many of us lived paycheck to paycheck and never had savings or "enough" money to have kids but we did anyway and it worked out. My parents as well -- same situation.
1
@Child of Babe
I agree and I suggest that a petition is started telling the DNC we will not vote unless Bernie is the nominee. If they know they will lose, it will work. We need to organize and do it now. If it gains support the media will cover it as well.
6
@Erik Grasso, how is your plan any different from the tyranny of the minority we suffer under the Republicans of flyover country with the electoral college system in place? The groups are somewhat different - militant Bernie supporters trying to exert their will over centrists as opposed to Trumpistas exerting their will over Democrats because a vote in Wyoming is worth more than a vote in California - but the underlying rationale is the same.
Your proposed tactics are no more acceptable because your cause is just.
9
@Rebecca B
It’s Bernie or bust and the democratic establishment and moderates will eventually learn they can’t win without us. The question is, will we have to endure a second Trump term, and who knows what else, maybe Ivanka being the first woman president for that to happen.
That's how we got here. People buying the promises of stuff from the government that they can't deliver, like bringing back coal or paying off everyone's debt.
How about we bring back fairness and let people work for their own prosperity on a level playing field. The Republican Party is only looking out for the Mar-a-Lago set. That's not this guy or his family.
We don't need tax breaks for the wealthy or free everything.
We don't need Trump or Bernie.
And as much as I hope this guy and his family are OK, he lost me when he implied that the rampant corruption that the Trump administration has wrought doesn't matter to him. If Bernie doesn't win he's OK voting for Trump. If he doesn't care about anyone else, remind me why we are supposed to care about his problems.
You have to participate in your rescue. Start by voting. Standing up for something is a great way to build some character and that might also help your kids by example, instead of waiting for politicians to pay off your debt.
Stand up for the rule of law, decisions based on facts and not politics. Stand up for competence and a country united and not ruled by tweet and Fox propaganda and a corrupt Senate and Attorney General. Stand up on your own two feet. And help others to do the same. Vote.
24
But he did vote, it didn't make a difference in his life. Why should he vote for the candidate of your choosing? Just to please you? It is difficult to notice corruption, when your life doesn't changes for better no matter who is in the WH.
Whatever happened to the American dream? Why isn't it attainable for people such as Mr. Michelz? The short answer is the ripping apart of the social safety net and trade agreements that sent jobs out of the country (cheap labor) and flooded the country with foreigners who could provide (cheap labor). If boomers were honest they would reveal to this current generation just how cheap College was when they attended,or just how easy finding a good job used to be if they dropped out. The boomers act like they did not benefit from a system that was put in place by FDR after the depression to pull America out of an economic catastrophe and create a strong and hopefully permanent middle class. This current generation has had the rug pulled out from under them and too many of their elders are blaming them. We all know they are working 2 jobs attending college dealing with ageing parents or grandparents and perhaps helping out with someone in their family battling the demons of addiction. Of course Bernie appeals to them. He acknowledges their plight and wants to help. Unlike his opponent (Biden NOT Trump at this point) who mocks them as complainers and offers them almost nothing. I have noticed Biden never brings up how much College cost him and his family. These young people will be in charge of this nation. This debt situation is permanently kneecapping them. The ladder from working poor to working class to middle class must be restored. Only Bernie Sanders will do exactly that.
19
@Marian "If boomers were honest they would reveal to this current generation just how cheap College was when they attended..." At an average midwestern public university in January of 1976, in-state tuition for 1 semester @16 credit hours ran about $675, or $42.2 per credit hour. Federal minimum wage was $2.30/hr. Today, the same university charges in-state tuition of $6047 for 1 semester @14 credit hours (2 credits fewer than in 1976), or $432 per credit hour. Today, federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr. The ratio of the cost of one credit hour to minimum wage was 18.3 in 1976 and is 59.6 in 2020. Thus, relative to prevailing minimum wage, the cost of tuition is ~3.25 times higher now than it was in 1976. (This doesn't include textbooks, supplies, housing, dining, transportation or personal expenses.)
4
While I don't condone the poor financial planning of these people (and I have friends like them), they are absolutely correct to not see much difference between Biden and Trump for them. The awful financial regulation infrastructure has come about via Republican and Democrat administrations and congresses. Heck, it was Biden who allowed my own government graduate loans to skyrocket to 7+% while interest rates were at near 0% during the Great Recession. BTW, I had perfect credit at the time. THIS is why Sanders' support is still so high.
15
This kind of whining is exactly what is wrong with Bernie supporters.
I'm pro free health care, but not giving away education. I would like to see the costs of it reduced significantly. A number of colleges make so much money from athletics to tuition, buying up real estate and pushing out people from their homes. That feels like a reasonable thing to tackle.
I am sure the article leaves some things out because the times can be inflammatory, but if this person has the luxury of being concerned about a car with heated seats then he can't be doing that bad. I don't own a car and never spend if I can't afford to pay for it. Maybe if he'd voted in past elections instead of waiting for a completely self motivated reason, this country would be on a path to getting some of these things he complains about. But now we're set back four years because of this type of ignorance.
27
If you visit web sites frequented by Sanders supporters, it quickly becomes apparent that much of his support is from people like Mr. Michelz who have student loan debt. It appears to me that they support Mr. Sanders in large part because he wants to make the rest of us pay those debts. I believe in helping my fellow citizens who have suffered misfortune. I believe in helping people to become productive members of our society. I would be in favor of a program that allows everyone to get a much lower-cost higher education or trade school. But having recently gone through the experience of helping my own child find and pay for college, I find that there are already options for getting a college education that don't involve big loans... such as community college to four year college programs, or choosing state colleges over much more expensive private colleges. Crucially, a quick internet search and simple math will shows how likely it is that the degree you choose will allow you to pay back the loan you might need to get it. I feel for Mr. Michelz and his wife, but they have made expensive mistakes that no one forced them to make. Where does society draw the line?
109
And who made the mistakes of Wall Street in 2008? Why were the big banks bailed out after bringing this country to its knees? Why wasn’t anyone punished for these crimes? Oh, they weren’t crimes who bought and paid for the senators and representatives who pass or didn’t pass legislation making these actions crimes?
It’s getting harder and harder to believe the same lies from the center right republican lite Democrats election after election.
14
@Zack Nope. MBA, 61, senior work at several of the Big 4, serial business owner with new launch this spring. I support Sanders because he reached the same conclusions I have and I can back it up by having seen the inside and a lot the nefariousness no one does.
13
@Zack
I'm neither a billionaire nor a multi-millionaire so I guess I'm being cavalier about their money which would be taxed to fund these programs, which is the plan but who know if anything will get done.
And if people like him aren't deserving of a little financial grace then corporations shouldn't be allowed to declare bankruptcy either.
11
So Mr. Michelz - who went to college to become a teacher but dropped out to work in a tire store - doesn't feel responsible for his financial situation because "it is not of his doing"? Just for the record, the average teacher salary in Michigan is $62K and the average nurses salary is $69K which means he and his wife could be making $131K a year in jobs that have health insurance. Mr. Michelz is not in his situation because of the 1% - he is in his situation because of choices he himself made. As one of millions of Americans who have worked since high school and who took on debt to pay for college (which I eventually paid off) I find it very difficult to have any sympathy for Mr. Michelz. But, hey, if Mr. Sanders promises to pay off my mortgage I just might vote for him too.
255
I am baffled why people put themselves in such debt. I too, had to figure out how to educate myself without overwhelming debt. I chose a RN program that was cheaper than going to college. Eventually was able to go to college on a government grant and also working my way through college to avoid building up a huge debt. So many young people do not seem to think how to avoid huge debt.
23
I would love to contrast this couple’s story with a story of a similarly aged couple who follow F.I.R.E principles. There are more under-30s making sound financial decisions than Sanders and the media would like us to believe. Let’s celebrate them, please.
13
Yes! I’m 25, got an engineering degree from a top school that I paid for myself, no family help but out of debt in a couple years (paid multiple times my rent every month to get rid of it all, which required living cheaply, but I did it.) Now have a net worth of 100k+ and climbing – saving is an easy habit after years of tossing vast sums of money into a black hole. At least now I can watch numbers get bigger rather than smaller.
If anything our generation should emerge with a more solid grasp of finances than most, like the reports that we save more than Gen X and the boomers did. The humility you feel on the day when you, a well educated, well paid professional, finally reach a net worth of zero and realize you are no longer poorer than the homeless man on the street... That really shows you how tenuous and nonsensical financial life can be.
5
Thank you NYT for this reporting.
Our society tells people that going to college is the gateway to a better life. But the costs of higher education have grown astronomically in the last 40 years so today, too many young people are burdened with debts they can’t repay and few good job prospects. Especially those who lived thru the Great Recession.
Motivations for voting are different for every person. I think many are quick to blame people like Mr. Michelz, but they really don’t comprehend his lived experience. People aren’t automatons that vote according to how others think they should.
Establishment Democrats have failed a generation of people like him. They’ve been very good at targeting help to the poor, as we should. But a disaster has unfolded in the lives of many middle and working class people that was ignored. This has undermined support for traditional parties. Why? Because both are to blame.
15
I would
never vote for Bernie but we have to make college more affordable. I just
looked at the cost of attending University of Wisconsin. It’s 26K a year to attend. 4 times that is 100K. That is a good amount of debt if someone does not have any family help. This man went for a Nursing degree as well which is a great way to get a job.
We have to lower the cost of these degrees. On line only schools have to become more prevalent and they have to be given credence. Tuition is 9.3K of the 26K per year. On line University of Wisconsin should not cost much more than that. Someone like the person in this article should get for half of say 10K. This would result in this man lower his debt from 100K to 20K for this man.
I am not for a student debt Jubilee but restructuring and lowering debt to what is serviceable has to happen.
3
You rather would keep Trump in power, than vote for Sanders, if he is the candidate.
With this attitude you will have your wish!
6
A splendid piece of writing. Much appreciated.
5
This is Forrest Lammiman. Mr. Michelez obviously did not do the math when he took his student loans to evaluate his likely ability to pay them off. Many Americans have paid off their debt. Is it fair to them and the taxpayers to simply cancel debt that the borrowers promised to pay? I think not. I paid my substantial student debt 22 years ago at age 54. I don’t hear Sanders saying that we who paid should be reimbursed. That said, I favor a program for student debt to be reduced and restructured to fit the reality of what the borrower is reasonably able to pay. For example, bankruptcy courts could be empowered to reduce the debt by reviewing hardship factors and how much the debtor can reasonably pay without severe hardship. Forrest
10
If Sanders doesn't make it, not voting in the general election reminds me of the old adage, "Government is run by those who show up." Talk about crippling debt, a second Trump term; you ain't seen nothing yet.
21
While many of the observations made in the previous Comments to this article are valid, I see no point in piling on. Rather, I urge Mr. Michelz and others in his cohort to understand that, short of an armed revolution, the only weapon he has in his arsenal is his vote. By not voting from 2008 to 2016, he conceded the battle to others and now does not like the result. I am encouraged by his political awakening. But sitting it out in November if his preferred candidate is not the Democratic nominee or casting a spiteful vote for Trump is not a mature response and, contrary to his feeling that he has nothing to lose, he, like millions of others, has everything to lose including our democracy. Peaceful revolution (Sanders) and big structural change (Warren) do not happen overnight. But the seeds have been sown. Mr. Michelz and his cohort have to ask themselves the question whether the likelihood of these seeds taking root is better with the eventual Democratic candidate or Trump. The answer is not Trump. Use your vote in November to advance your goals. They might not be accomplished this year or next but one thing is certain. If you sit it out in November or cast a spiteful vote for Trump, your goals will never be accomplished.
23
If he stops buying flowers every day, and studies economics and logic rather than flowery thinking, he might find himself in a better position. Does he understand he wants to put the country deeper in debt because of his debt? Has he read Robin Hood?
People making $100,000 annually who find out they owe another $10,000 in Federal taxes (after paying $17,000 through deductions) are not comfortable having the tax rate go up for bailing out poor economic decisions. And before all the chorus goes up that banks were bailed out 10 years ago, as a country we had no choice.
Were "banks" and others greedy? Absolutely, and more accountability should have occurred. However, that greed was fomented in a huge way by, preposterously, the two sinners who created the Dodd - Frank legislation. Irony at its best.
Flowers every day cost about $750 annually (assuming taxes are included). If in the tax bracket above making $100,000, that means about $1,000 roughly pretax. Sounds like discretionary spending to me.
13
What a cruel and thoughtless claim; a rose and two carnations at the Jewel here in Chicago night cost $5 (they’re on sale as they start to wilt). Assuming they last a week, that’s *maybe* $250. a year for a beautiful gesture toward a partner whom he otherwise can’t treat often. Why would we deny tiny pleasures to those caught in a sick system? The market in Michigan and other midwestern states is brutal (most of the gains Trump crows about are service jobs or construction). So yeah, pile on to this guy trying to stay afloat.
This country has lost its empathy and community spirit—to the extent we ever had it.
A last concern: of course this person should vote in November. Sitting out will cost him and others plenty more
4
Sanders accused Bloomberg of buying votes, but Sanders' himself is effectively buying votes, such as that of Mr. Michelz, through Mr. Sander's proposed medical and college policies.
25
How much student debt relief have this couple got for their 2016 vote for Sanders? Hillary Clinton definitely would have helped these people and the millions of others in debt. Maybe not the pie in the sky promises of Sanders and Warren but more than they will ever see from a Trump and the Republicans. Keep voting against your own best interests and one day it may work out for you or more likely not.
13
59 year olds: wow this poor man made such bad choices and expects me to help?
also 59 year olds: practically about to collect on Social Security, Medicaid, lived through a period of real wage growth and affordable college, bought houses for reasonable sums and can now sell them for 10x
8
I'm always of mixed feelings about this stuff. I grew up poor, put myself through college (debt $86k in today's dollars), took care of my parents medically and financially for 15 years, finally getting to start my life at 38. I know from personal experience how much debt can set back your life. I spent another 15 years paying off all of it which included debt incurred taking care of my parents, and I never choose any expensive top-shelf options either. I - paid - off - my - debts - without - any - help! I'm 59 and still trying to get my life going and have begun to realize that in spite of saving all my life, I may possibly never get to retire.
As I said, I understand how much debt can be an obstacle to reaching one's potential, building a family, reaching (or staying in) the middle class, retiring, etc. Most of the time, you realize you can't reach the goals you wanted, so you start to be satisfied with alternatives, and that affects one's psyche.
But what pains me is that I did all that (and am still trying even at 59) without any help. No one offered to help me kickstart my life, yet that's exactly what I'm being asked to do for these young people. It's painful to suffer and now being expected to do it again for others who will never help me back.
Someone needs to explain to me why I should put my own goals in the backseat yet again though I never once made any choices which were expensive nor tried to live high on the hog. I think it's my turn for once.
69
@JustJeff
We have to end this whole “I had to suffer so they have to suffer” mentality. If we can see a better way for our society, shouldn’t we move in that direction? Why wouldn’t we want to leave future generations better off than our own generation? And how horrible do you think your life will be because you have Medicare before 65? Wouldn’t that be a good thing? Republicans want to strip Social Security away from older people. How would that help you? I’m impressed that you were able to work so hard and pay off so many debts. I’m sorry you’re in a place where you feel you might not ever be able to retire. Something is very wrong with that. Clearly our system is broken, and Bernie Sanders wants to change that. When things are broken, we should fix them.
10
@JustJeff Your age gave you away. The ration between college costs and rent and household income has changed drastically since you were a young adult. Meaning, costs have risen far faster than income can keep up with. My dad (the "great" generation) raised a family of five on his little accountants salary, put us all through college, got four weeks vacation a year, then got a pension and social security when he retired. There's no way that same job today would enjoy those luxuries.
8
@JustJeff From what I gathered, Bernie has in mind taking from the rich to give to the poor, not taking from you personally. Unless you’re a billionaire.
2
I thank Brian and Sarah for sharing their story. I gives me much to think about . However, Brian seems to be grasping for hope for his future by vesting all his hope in Bernie. Yes, the system is "fixed", but the "system" is complex. All its many problems will not be "fixed" by Bernie, Trump, Biden or anyone else.
Before throwing his November vote to Trump (or to no one) should Bernie not be the Democrats candidate, I hope that Brian gives some thought to what Wisconsin's governor Scott Walker and the Republican-controlled state legislature did to higher education in the state (while he and Sarah were in college) and what they didn't do for young people like him regarding debt reduction or refinancing. And that he remembers that Bush and Republicans in Congress voted to raise interest rates on college loans and exempt college loans from bankruptcy filings. And remembers that Congressional Republicans prevented Obama from putting forward student debt relief efforts. And that Trump has done nothing on these fronts to help people like Brian and Sarah. And his Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos is scaling back loan forgiveness programs.
WIll Brian and Sarah's life be transformed if Biden is elected? No. If Bernie is elected? No. Will things be no worse (if not better) if Trump is reelected? I hope Brian gives that question some really serious thought before voting for Trump or not voting in November.
71
@Concerned Boomer
Excellent response. I was shocked when I read in the article that he might vote for Trump if Bernie isn’t the nominee because , according to Brian, not much will change. I really, really hope he reads this comment because clearly very much can change to work against him if Trump is re-elected.
13
@Concerned Boomer
Unfortunately, loan forgiveness was a hopelessly complicated process and probably didn’t apply to him anyway. Many people who worked in public service to get a loan forgiven found out later that they didn’t qualify after being in the program for several years.
Many of the commenters apparently don’t keep up with the news about these mitigation measures and the abysmal loan servicing companies who rip off the borrowers or lose their paperwork constantly. It’s easy to sit back and recite the program boilerplate, but the reality doesn’t life up to the hype. Try actually talking to the student borrowers about their reality.
3
@Concerned Boomer
You should give some thought before voting for Biden, boomer. If he wins you will have the same outcome as 2016, guarantees
As a high school college counselor, I have to ask: who advised this young woman to take on $100,000.00 in debt for a degree in nursing, a field with ample opportunities for co-op training, paid schooling and scholarships? Our k-12 system needs to include rigorous financial education. College can be affordable but applicants need to be smart about their options.
208
@Jolton Likely a financial counselor working for the loan industry. It’s very common on campus.
12
You're absolutely right. I got my associate's degree in nursing from the local community college, graduated, passed the NCLEX - the nursing board exam that graduates must pass before working as an RN, got a hospital nursing job & was able to earn my bachelor's in nursing degree mostly online while working full time because my employer offers tuition reimbursement. No debt. There is NO justification for taking on massive debt for a nursing degree. If you live in an area where it's hard for associate degree nurses to get hired, research low cost options for getting the bachelors. Many community colleges arrangements with 4 year schools to help students complete their bachelors degrees.
28
Why do we always talk about education consumers better and not regulating better the people that lend money? Even if they did make some mistakes, blaming it on them doesn’t solve the larger problem that millions of people have this kind of debt ? Bernie would regulate the private schools and the lenders that prey on young people who get into debt. That would actually go a ways to solving this problem, rather than the old American past time of blaming the individual for choices you think you would have made better.
15
Yes, we must help folks like this. Yes, we must put the bootstraps back into American society. All the same, we should not fail to note that the Democrats are more similar than they are different. In 2016 the per capita annual incomes of Sanders and Clinton voters were virtually the same. (The number was $10,000 higher for what's his name.) And all of the Democratic candidates would do significant things to help folks like these, compared to what's his name who is doing actual harm to them. Mr. Michelz is wrong about all of that. And Senator Sanders is doing his utmost to keep Mr. Michelz in the dark.
17
Kingfish, 'the values Americans once cherished' included paying our own way - not getting handouts or living deep in debt. While I feel for Mr. Michelz challenges, some of those came from racking up huge student debt - and that CAN be avoided with some pre-planning and self control. My parents, then siblings and I, have all had periods in our twenties, working multiple jobs to get where we are today. It can be done, and you CAN rise above it. We hear it in immigrant stories all the time.
I find Mr. Michelz to be doing what amounts to political window shopping if he can swing without much rationale from Bernie to Trump and then decide so easily to squander his right to vote. We all need to know much more about candidates' positions, their current voting records, along with their temperament and yes, electability. It takes some effort. Bernie can be emotionally connected to all of the best intentions in the world yet if he can't manage himself without vivid anger and frustration - that's a huge turnoff to many of us who are tired of the rage of our current America. We need a leader who can remain composed - and humane.
BTW, how sweet to think of your wife, but it's the little things that can get you - buying flowers frequently....there are a lot of other creative and no-cost ways to show you care. And don't succumb to the allure of heated seats - eeks! But, I wish you the best, Mr. Michelz.
24
@T. Leigh How many forgone flower purchases do you suppose it would take to make up his $24K medical debt, not to mention his wife's $100K student debt?
4
Sanders makes these huge attractive promises but in his 30 years of Congress has never shown any indication he could to achieve these, complicated goals which require compromise and consensus building. Remember Trump said he would Make America Great Again? Look at the track record of achievement and that will be a good predictor of future success.
74
Very simple, to the point and clear why so many people know that Bernie is a better candidate.
For those that are: moderates, centrists, afraid of socialism, comfortable with the past, comfortable with rich people; and also those who think that, Bernie is: too radical, too expensive, without congress support, too socialist, nobody likes him, too old, that hillary should be president, etc etc etc for all you out there, read and think, is very simple; is either you change or keep everything the same.
12
@SF or Sweden by the bay It’s precisely because I want change that I believe Sanders would be a disastrous choice and that I will not support him for the nomination (though if he is nominated I will hold my nose and vote for him because, unlike people like Mr Michelz, I care about this country and the rule of law more than I care about someone fixing all of my personal problems). This is a representative democracy and we need to win back the Senate and restore some semblance of civility in public discourse if we are EVER to have any hope of achieving any of the progressive goals Sanders rants about (and most of which Biden shares, if you’d turn iff the megaphone and listen). Even in the highly unlikely event Sanders would gather enough Electoral College votes to become President, there’s not a remote possibility he’d carry the Senate with him and a much higher likelihood we’d see the House return to GOP control. Biden can get these messy governance things done, at which point progress is possible. That’s how an informed adult thinks through this problem.
32
@SF or Sweden by the bay
Same as it used to be is better than the possibly irreversible damage an 8 year Trump presidency will do to us.
6
@SF or Sweden by the bay I am a liberal ideologically but I also believe in common sense and taking personal responsibility. Maybe wanting more than they can afford ifs part of the problems? Lack of financial knowledge and planning? Unwillingness to settle for used versus new or not going to the spa? Bernie has done a good job of identifying problems and then luring people in with potential solutions, but he hasn't sold those solutions (even if we recognize the problems) to the general public and those who might be allies in part due to his "telling" approach and inflexibility. He also effectively uses fear mongering (if a "moderate" gets elected...horrors) and has had huge success with divisiveness and deliberately creating enemies (Boomers. billionaires, moderates, anyone who doesn't agree with Bernie).
For me it has nothing to do with any of that long list - other than too old, but we're left with that anyway no matter who, so we need to make do.
He picked a degree with notoriously low salaries - teaching - as his degree, went to a private college and ran up debts, ignored his bad credit score for years instead of repairing. I know that this guy has had a rough life, but that's no excuse for not doing financial research and developing a long term plan. You can even get free tools and advice online. He's 29, not a kid.
106
@Sarah B. And that's why we can't find teachers. It should be a job that pay's more than changing tires. But then the well off would have to pay more taxes an we can't have that can we.
15
@Sarah B. The lack of empathy here is pretty appalling. I'm somehow not surprised though. It seems to be the norm for this country.
11
@Michael W
Sarah B. is right. This guy should be making better decisions, not asking us to sponsor his bad ones.
Please don’t vote for Trump if Bernie doesn’t get the nomination if for no other reason than the environment. trump has cut scientist positions in the EPA and gutted laws to protect water and air quality. Look at his appointments, almost all linked to oil and gas indeustries.
Reading this story makes me wonder how a young person could be saddled with such medical debt. That is wrong. The banks were bailed out and regular people lost their homes. That is also wrong.
I support Sanders but will vote for Biden. Never Trump. It’s the environment.
28
Sorry if the observations seem heartless but...
29 and never voted before?
$100,000 for nursing school?! That’s private college prices not public college.
A college degree in teaching with debt that he never got a job in?
$3 to his name?
What happens to the lenders who Bernie plans to stiff? Will they ever live to loan money to future generations investing in their futures?
I exist, therefore I’m entitled just doesn’t cut it.
If healthcare is a right, then you can be told what to eat, drink and smoke.
If housing is a right, you can be told where to live.
If college is free, you can be told what you will study.
If childcare is free, you can be told if and how many children you may have.
Is this the America you want?
148
Welcome to college in 2020
My daughter is about to start a Pharm D degree
If she goes in state to Rutgers it will cost $210K
If she goes out of state to Pitt it will cost $263K and that includes a $40k scholarship
$100K for nursing school actually sounds low. It actually cost twice that much- that’s just what she owes.
All college loans should be totally interest free.
27
@Deirdre
Thanks for the thoughtful response.
Checking the well regarded Oregon Health Sciences University website:
BSN for in-state resident total cost is stated as $51,167.76.
For Pharm D in-state is quoted as $7,860 per term, 3 terms per year + various fees.
Do with this as you will. Kid regards.
13
@Deirdre if all college loans were interest free, the person making the loan would lose money. So who is going to do that?
9
The first thing a new Congress and President should do is mandate a required financial literacy course for every student starting in the 9th grade. It is not necessary to take out $100K to become a nurse. No where near that amount. Anywhere in the United States. Young people need to realize the consequences of their financial decisions - their student loans, their car loans, saving vs. spending - and there should be remedial classes for their parents. I am so tired of the excuse that people just didn't understand what they were getting into. Spell it out from the 9th grade onward.
62
Reagan's first Secretary of Education, Terrell Bell, described our education system as something that would be considered "an act of war" if a foreign country were doing it to our children, but Reagan's second Secretary of Education, Bill Bennett, doubled that act of war by claiming taxpayers had no duty to pay college students to vacation in Ft. Lauderdale on Spring Break. Of course, it wasn't the students taking out loans who were going to Lauderdale, and Bennett knew it, but he used that argument to get Congress to privatize student loans and turn them into a major profit center for investors, which is where we are now, forty years later. Student loans are a profit center for investors. Got that?
25
@Long Memory : my own stepdaughter took out loans to take Spring Break vacations for NINE years -- the length of time it took her to get a Bachelor's degree -- part time, while partying hearty and having lots of fun times.
She always borrowed the absolute maximum she was allowed to -- plus maxed out all her credit cards.
Just before graduating, she defaulted on all her credit cards. The student loan could not be eliminated, so she has to pay that back over 10 years. It will be paid off in two years.
She had lots of cool vacations though!
Sorry. Not sorry.
Life is made up of choices and consequences and I don’t see why I need to pay to bail others out because of their choices to take on debt.
46
I really have to despair of people who, demoralized by poverty and debt, decide that not voting at all is the best course.
29
Not voting for Biden, if he is the democratic nominee, isn't intelligent. I do not like Biden over Bernie but I would still support the democrats since supporting Republicans is a death sentence for Americans since the Supreme Court might agree with their case to ditch Obamacare completely. Also Trump wants cuts to Medicare and Social Security and Republicans would fully support both. Trump is also planning another tax cut for the 1%.
29
I feel sorry for this couple, who have a tremendous debt load, but I heartily reject their choice to vote for Trump or not vote at all. A vote for Trump or not voting will gain them nothing but more of the same. Do they think the Republican party gives a fig for their financial situation or would raise even a pinky finger to help them? If they do, then their education dollars were wasted. Raise your concerns with the Democrats - at least they listen even if you think they don't move fast enough. But sitting it out or voting R should not be the answer. And, by the way, as a previous comment stated, there are loan forgiveness programs which might be available to them with the skills they have.
34
If he thinks he has nothing to lose, he doesn't know how government works or has a narrow, self-interested view - understandably, based on his predicament. I was ready to vote for whoever won the primaries in 2016. When it was clear it would be Hillary, I tried to impress upon my Bernie-Or-Bust friends that Trump would mean the end of the Supreme court and the Federal judiciary as we knew it, the end of any chance to improve Obamacare, the end of regulations that kept us and the environment safe for decades, among many other changes. They did now want to hear it, these ideological purity warriors. Many voted for Jill Stein, just as many voted for Nader back in 2000 and gave us Bush. There's a certain kind of narcissism and righteousness that comes with this anger, a certain lack of awareness of a larger picture. A certain intolerance of humanity and flaws. Look closely at Bernie's financials and record and you can find plenty to shake your head at. Still, if he wins the primaries, I'll vote for him. This is a national emergency. Biden is not the enemy - Trump is. Personally, I don't think anybody over 65 should be allowed to run, but this is what we have now. Pragmatism has always gotten miracles achieved in politics. Idealism not so much.
74
I can feel somewhat badly about the medical debt. But the student debt? They never explicitly say his college degree, but given the mention that he was learning "teaching," I'm assuming it's a bachelors in education, not even an M. Ed, and they don't mention where he went for it. I honestly have zero sympathy for you if you CHOOSE to get a degree in that and pay through the nose for it- it's not exactly a hidden fact that it's a tough job market for teachers and a lot of the jobs you'll get out of school won't pay well. Even with the girlfriend with $100k debt for her nursing degree. Ok, that's a little more justifiable, since nurse practitioners can make decent income. But even then, that's one of those fields where there really isn't some extreme benefit conferred by going to a private school versus public for that, and I don't see how you can manage to ring up that debt going to an in state public school. Those student debt choices were all their own, and yes, poorly thought out. Why should society have to bear the burden of their stupidity?
Do I think things like medicine and college should be cheaper, with efforts made to prevent price gouging? Sure. But there's a limit to everything, and there really is no good reason why we should be bailing out people left and right for their dumb decisions. Be an adult and take some responsibility.
37
Mr. Michelz believes that nothing will change if he votes for Biden. Someone should tell him that things WILL change if he votes for trump, such as a climate catastrophe.
26
Don't expect others to pay for your student loans. You incurred them, you paid them. What about those who had money in their 401K's and who lost a substantial portion when the real estate market crashed? Some lost the homes they've had for many years. All because they lost their job and couldn't pay. Who cared for them? Who bailed them out. NO ONE.
Stand on your own two feet. Deal with what life gives you. Don't expect others to bail you out.
31
Vote for the republicans if you dare! How much more do you have to see of Trump to understand he cares nothing about the middle class and less of the lower class where he is destroying the remaining safety net and is against any subsidized healthcare including the Medicaid expansion of the ACA. Name a Trump policy that benefits the middle class?
18
This young American may not be entirely blameless for his situation, but he hit a home run with his statement -
"I think, you did the craziest thing for the banks,” he said of the bailouts. “Yet normal families were thrown in the street, literally.”"
That's why I voted for Elizabeth Warren, and am somewhat sympathetic to Bernie's message. How will Biden get it, with all his banking/credit card ties?
21
This guy has put himself in a bad position due to his own bad decisions. Students who borrow tens of thousands of dollars (per year) to pay for college are financially irresponsible. It's a gamble, and he lost. Whatever happened to "working your way through college?" A low cost or free community college degree 2 year degree coupled with taking a regular job and night study to complete his 4 year degree would have gotten him to a much better financial place in life than borrowing huge sums. But that would take sacrifice for the future....
But also, blame must be placed on the government loan programs offering loans of tens of thousands per year to students who have no collateral and only a hope of getting a job after graduation to pay back the enormous sums. No regular bank would ever make such a fiscally irresponsible loan. These government loan programs are not based on sound principles. They have indirectly provided a guaranteed subsidy to colleges that has resulted in bloated, exorbitant tuition fees.
15
@NJ Guy
Taxpayers are being taken to the cleaners by many public universities. And why the “bloated, exorbitant” costs? Look at the University of Michigan, one our finest public universities. It has approximately 46,000 students and an academic staff of some 6,700 — not bad, at about 7 to one. But there are about 19,000 administrative personnel — just a hair less than 3 administrative positions per student, and at least 100 of those are “diversity” administrative job holders. Tell me, if you can, precisely why this isn’t absolutely outrageous! And what’s the result? Well at the Ann Arbor campus, for example, the tuition and fees for the 2019-2020 school year is a whopping $15,558 for in-state freshmen and sophomores and $17,522 for in-state juniors and seniors, *plus* $12,000 to $15,000 per year for housing, books, etc. Surely, there can be no reason to ask why such places are beyond the reach of the middle class taxpayers who support them...
9
These people are 30 years old with the entire system stacked against them and yet are still so clueless that they won’t even “consider themselves progressive.” In any other first-world country, these people would be the bread and butter of a serious left wing labor movement. The French have paralyzed whole cities over far less than what these people face.
I read profiles like this and, despite being entirely aligned with Sanders’ vision, feel its pretty much hopeless and barely more than a coincidence that he’s taken it this far. The youth vote doesn’t turn up and people like this are too oblivious, too solipsistic, too afflicted by their immense Stockholm Syndrome to ever really affect change.
Unfortunately, I suspect the only way things will get better is if they first get a lot worse.
9
The story demonstrates learned helplessness.
The notion that voting for Joe Biden won't change things for the better assumes the status quo is all that is and will ever be.
Never underestimate the impact of the truth on any problem.
That is to say a solution depends on the truth.
Mr Michelz should apply to be an Epic educator down the road in Verona.
2
This article saddens and frustrates me for so many reasons.
It saddens me because this young man got very bad advice. He and his wife are crushed with debt that they should have been able to get help to resolve, so that they could pay what they could afford each month and not ruin their credit.
As a Biden supporter, it frustrates me because Mr. Michelz doesn’t understand a thing about traditional Democratic policies and priorities. If Sanders loses, he would rather vote for Trump than Biden because he thinks “his life won’t change” with Biden as president. To the contrary, any Democratic President would help him more than Trump would. Trump cares not a wit for the middle class. In fact, his so called “tax cut” was a actually tax increase for any middle class person with a mortgage, a car, and few other investments, because the property tax deduction was capped to help pay for decreased taxes for the wealthy.
I hope someone in the Biden campaign reads this article and gets out there and tries to educate millennials about how a Biden presidency would help them too. The Democratic Party can not afford to lose millennials’ votes again if Sanders loses the primary.
820
@Lauren Greenspoon Biden served 8 years in an administration under which the minimum wage was not raised. There were people dying because they couldn't afford medication during Obama's watch - and that will continue under Biden. If you're evicted because you can't afford rent you'll be just as homeless under Biden as you would under Trump. Biden was responsible for making debt harder to discharge under bankruptcy. I think he understands Biden-style Democratic policy quite well.
95
@Lauren Greenspoon Would it help them? Sincere question. I don't think this guy is in the income bracket to have been hit by Trump's tax increases on the middle class. So I'm wondering what exactly Biden would do for him...? His main problem is student loans, and I'm not sure Biden is planning to do anything about those, is he?
49
@Lauren Greenspoon
I'm sorry to say, many millennials and members of generation z will not show up to vote for Biden, no matter what. I'm a teacher and I talk with my high school and college-aged students. They are informed about Biden's past. They know he supported and promoted a rapacious bankruptcy bill that made it harder for most Americans to extricate themselves from debt. (This bill was the legislation that inspired Elizabeth Warren to get into politics—to fight against it.)
Continue to back this guy and we all lose. Blaming the victim—suggesting that the many Michelzs in our country should support a candidate marginally/nominally more sensitive to lower and middle class priorities—misses the point. I have a feeling the point will continue to be missed until it's too late. And the point is that our duopolistic party system doesn't really offer them much of anything but symbolic improvement and token change. We are facing a climate emergency and potential extinction, this in a gilded, decadent, all too cynical time. Structural reform is necessary.
Deprive them the option of a political revolution and we may be looking at the prospect of an actual one.
102
He plans on voting for Mr. Sanders in the Wisconsin primary next month. But he is not sure what he will do in November if Mr. Sanders is not the nominee."
With an attitude like that, he does indeed have everything to lose.
37
The Michelz do have significant debt, but they should also have a combined income on ~$80,000 a year if she is on the low end of the salary scale. We need programs to help them reduce their debt so they can make payments and still have enough to have a family and/or buy a home. Who is making this type of proposal?
16
I will be 29 next month. I am married and have two children. With the exception of my father dying, this could be my story: parents losing jobs in 2008, home foreclosure, divorce, unpaid medical bills. The similarities end there.
I joined the military at 18. The military pays for your healthcare and tuition, and indeed I took advantage of these things. But the payment is this: I have known people who died and lost limbs. I have spent months away from my young children during their most tender and formative years. Yes, the taxpayers funded my education and health care, but the payment the country demanded in return was time and blood. I personally have been exceptionally blessed in that I have avoided the worst tolls the military can extract, and I will be voluntarily leaving the service in several months. My wife used local scholarships for a local community college, lived at home, and worked full time to pay the rest of her way. We have one 16-year-old car for our family of four by choice, so that we can save money.
I'm not trying to convince anybody to join the military. I am simply the living counterexample to what Bernie and his band of rabid followers say about my generation: that financial security was impossible for us. My wife and I are debt-free because of the choices and sacrifices we made, not because we were more or less "privileged" than any of our peers. We do not share the sense of entitlement portrayed here, and thus will not be voting for Bernie, ever.
170
@JAB it is a sad sign indeed if a generation’s only chance at financial stability is putting themselves in harm’s way for this country’s endless wars around the globe.
Bernie is #1 in contributions from active-duty service members. Just because you are in the military doesn’t mean you need to abandon critical thinking. Sanders at least wants the sacrifice and service of our nations armed forces to be measured and meaningful.
54
@Loyal Achates... no argument from me about the endless wars. In fact, the current president just committed to ending the longest war in our history last week, and has tried numerous times to pull out of Syria for the same reason.
And critical thinking? Sanders proposes to raise taxes on everyone making over $29,000 annually to pay for his programs, which will cost $52 trillion over ten years. (Those are his own estimates, posted on his own campaign website, not some Republican misinformation statistic.) I question the critical thinking ability of anyone who thinks that's even remotely feasible.
18
@JAB please don’t think you can me scare me by saying ‘taxes.’ Bernie’s proposed programs are long-overdue investments which are vital to the continued success and even viability of the broader American economy. In many instances the programs being supported - ie Medicare for all, or public higher education - the cost savings even outweigh the absolute dollar increase in taxation.
16
I'm of a different generation but totally concur with Mr. Michelz. I had minimal student debt and it was paid off by my parents and grandparents. But I have seen my earnings not only stagnate but go backward despite having not just college but a professional degree. For two years, due to a number of factors my income was so low I qualified for Medicaid, which turned out to be the best health insurance plan I have ever been on. Abolish private health insurance? I'm all in! I only have what savings I have because I bought property when it was cheap--a dream and fantasy for the young. I can't ever retire unless my parents leave me an inheritance. Which brings me to my next point--would I vote for Trump over Biden? I might. Why would I vote for someone who on the one hand wants to preserve our predatory health insurance system, while at the same time, will increase the estate tax? I'm willing to pay more in taxes if I actually get something from it--like healthcare.
21
@Anne
Currently the estate tax only hits estates valued in the 10 million dollar range. So increasing the estate tax would not hurt average or even well off Americans at all. If you have a 10 million estate taxes should be paid,
2
@Anne
Very selfish Anne. Try to think how people with less family support might be impacted. Or our society in general.
1
When I see comments like this one, I am dumbfounded how ignorant people
are about the difference between Donald Trump/Republicans and ANY Democratic candidate. Jesus. Get informed.
5
Biden was one of the biggest promoters of the 2005 bankruptcy bill which made it impossible to discharge student loan debt. While he was a senator, Biden also promoted legislation to make it easier for students and parents to take out student loans back in the 1970s, for instance, removing income restrictions on federal loans.
Biden has worked hard to structure a system that benefits banks and preys on ordinary Americans and students—it might be the reason Mr. Michelz thinks, as the article states, that: “his life looked and felt the way it did. His financial instability was not some individual failure, but a function of a broader economic system.”
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@cy
Biden helped get Dodd-Frank and other financial industry regulation passed, so you’re just plain wrong. Biden isn’t to blame for Michelz and other Sanders supporters making bad financial decisions.
Federal student loans are from the government, why should they be easily dischargeable in bankruptcy. You’re just cheating other students and the taxpayers. There are a variety of repayment options such as income based repayment, which make repayment feasible. And there are loan forgiveness programs for various government and nonprofit employees.
Loans from banks are only a small part of the student loan base, and they wouldn’t exist at all if they were easily dischargeable in bankruptcy. No bank would loan anything to 18 year olds with no work or credit history if they could just declare bankruptcy a few years later.
Student loan forgiveness mostly benefits those who have higher earnings capacity from their degree. Taxpayers without degrees, who often earn less, would be paying for it. It’s reverse Robinhood.
4
@cy
Enough victimization. People need to own their choices. Nobody is forced to take a 100k student debt.
4
I'm sympathetic to Mr. Michelz but am not happy with him or anyone else who decides that since their candidate is no longer in the race (2016) they won't vote at all. Vote for your party of choice at least. That's why we have Trump as our President. He didn't win by that many votes in the swing states.
The only advice I can give him is to keep plugging away at his debt, to the absolute maximum he can. Eventually it will be gone.
I believe that universal healthcare is in the future for.the US but there is zero chance that even if Bernie is elected, that his policies will become law. Even moderate Dems would be loath to vote for such a social policy shift. Perhaps in future electoral cycles, not this one.
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@Rob D
He doesn’t have a party of choice. He has economic challenges that he wants/needs addressed. He’s not as worried about the political system as comfortable suburban Biden voters are. He has palpable debt issues that will either be addressed by the political system or they won’t. If not, he’s not your ally.
11
That is why Dems are worth to be punished. If they don't want to vote for programs that help millions and make America a better place, why people should vote for them?
2
@Rob D did u read the article? Democrats are not this mans party of choice. He is an independent.
If Biden wins the nomination, he definitely needs to listen to and offer some hope for voters like Mr. Michelz.
Younger adults are not finding the prosperity they were promised if they worked hard. He sees the big American lie: "He no longer believes the American story that everyone should be able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. That’s a big lie that benefits the rich and keeps the system the same,” he said.
While I would strongly disagree with Mr. Michelz on possibly sitting out the election or even voting for Trump, we absolutely cannot disregard the situation that so many young adults find themselves in. To win, Biden must speak to this pain and put forward some strong and clearly-stated ideas to address it.
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@tlf
So far, Biden is only proposing to reschedule this man’s payments. That is the usual strategy of a loan shark. Under Biden’s proposals, student debt will continue to grow and crush the younger generation, so their elders can be provided with socialized medicine and tax cuts.
Vote for Biden to get rid of Trump, but understand that many young people have a more urgent set of challenges, and they may not see the relative advantages of Biden vs Trump the same way as middle aged suburban boomers do.
49
Trump = Environmental policies being reversed resulting in decades worth of damage. Judicial appointments at all Federal levels which will shift the balance of Federal jurisprudence for 30 to 40 years. If those things (whichever side they align themselves on) aren't important to young people I don't know what is.
7
@tlf
'Promised prosperity'.?? Who made that promise.?
Thanks for real life stories behind the politics. And yes, Democrats must act to help folks in this situation.
Bernie is sincere, but how will he make the promises that mean so much to people in crisis into law?
You do this not by yelling as a lone wolf but through coalitions and cooperation with other politicos.
22
@Cinnamongirl This is where I struggle with Bernie. On a vision level, we align pretty well. But I do not have any confidence he can deliver! It is nearly impossible to push through sweeping changes like free education and health care for all - there simply aren't the votes. And even if it is possible, someone who has positioned themselves as an outsider has even less of a chance. He hasn't built up the coalitions and alliances needed to sell the vision and build consensus. You can't spend that many years railing against people (and the party he will be representing) and then expect them to fall in line. Do I want a visionary who I believe can't achieve the goals, or an establishment guy with the relationships to do at least something?
27
Apparently, something is not enough. Dems were in power for many years and yet didn't deliver much, and by continue to nominate the guys who promise no changes they make sure that nothing will be done. You may criticize Bernie that he could not make anything done, but that implies that Dems could make it done, they just don't want to do it. Why should people vote for the candidates that don't want to do anything for people.
2
Sure, establishment Biden will do “something” to help his establishment friends, the banks and the financial elite. Is that what you want?
3
I'm older than the couple described in this article, but I too had frightening parents and identify with many of the same issues -- especially debt, cynicism about the American culture and the lack of truthfulness everywhere you look.
But for me, Bernie Sanders -- for all his sincerity -- has one-sided, extreme perspectives that don't ring true.
35
What a great country we would be if we provided college, nursing school, medical school, etc. etc. to all those who qualify. Perhaps a combination of grades/financial need.
Why do we accept our young citizens saddled with debt? Don't we want an educated populace, able to productively contribute to society from the get-go?
I try to remain optimistic but sometimes I think the U.S. is just a failed nation.
59
@Jim Yes, because 1) costs can come way down if we nationalize healthcare, and 2) we need a lot more doctors and nurses, especially in rural areas.
4
Although I feel for this guy, I’m also shaking my head.
$100,000 in student loan debt?
I find it hard to believe that a teacher’s salary is lower than working at a tire store over the long run. Teachers still receive pensions, so at least he’d be accumulating some retirement savings if he worked as a teacher. (I was a teacher for 26 years). It sounds like they have no savings at this point.
Aren’t there loan forgiveness programs for teachers at certain schools? And nurses at certain medical centers? Wouldn’t that be an option?
The medical debt is terrible, and unconscionable in our society. But how would voting for Trump, if Sanders isn’t the nominee, going to fix things? Biden does have some good policy decisions, and he’s not a lying gangster like Trump. Not voting for the Democratic nominee, in order to “stick it to” the Democratic Party, sounds like this man is copying the vindictive behavior of Trump. I don’t get it.
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I agree that it is shocking to hear how little people earn as teachers. I can't speak for the man but in the college I attend, most of the teachers employed are adjuncts. They get paid only $3,200 per course, which is not enough in NY. They also don't get benefits such as healthcare. I thought that because they were college educated, they would earn much more
36
@Wendy What's the starting salary for a teacher in Wisconsin? Keep in mind this is the state who went to war against public employee unions and teachers. It's entirely possible that working in a tire shop pays more than a Wisconsin teacher makes.
But the point is, why has it gotten to this point? You can't blame Trump for that because it predates him by decades, through Republicans and Democrats being in charge. Voting for the Establishment candidates of either party changes nothing, and therefore makes things worse. Voting for Trump, or not voting and making his re-election easier, may not be what you or I would do, but it's not really unreasonable for those in the Michelzs's situation.
And then there is the theory that rather than "die by a thousand cuts" with Corporate Democrats, you can die quickly under Trump and maybe call greater attention to what's happening. It wasn't until Trump won that any of the "experts' began to question their assumptions about how Americans were doing. So in a perverse way, we have to give Trump - or more correctly those who voted for him - credit for waking people up.
16
@Wendy We have family in Madison Wisconsin so are out there frequently. When Scott Walker was governor, the state very successfully declared war on teachers and their union. I talked to teachers with 20 years experience who said they are making less now than they did 10 years ago because under Scott Walker and his Republican legislature their salaries were actually cut, teachers who are working night shifts at Kohls to make ends meet etc. Most of the schools in Madison are underfunded and very poorly rated. We live in a school district that pays its teachers generously and I was shocked to see how low the average teachers salary in Madison is. The information is readily available on-line. So yes, a new teacher could get a higher salary working in a tire store.
30
Forgiving debt does nothing to fix the problem. Perhaps the government can offer grants that are linked to a negotiated reduced tuition rate, as one idea that would help long-term.
Not sure why Bernie thinks I should be paying off this kid’s loans instead of putting my own through college with that money. His ideas are flawed and he will lose in a landslide if he is the nominee. We can’t afford that. Let’s make government boring again. Enough drama.
29
@Steve Gallup I fully agree with this. I think some form of interest relief and public service commitments would be a start to help give the indebted relief but I don’t want to forgive all educational loans outright. How can that possibly be structured going forward?
7
@Steve Gallup The issue with tuition is not that there is a lack of government funds to finance college. The issue is that schools have increased their tuition precisely because the government has a no-cap financing system.
Schools are using pupils (who are dependent on education) to force the government’s hand to pay up large sums immediately. Injecting this system with more cash will float tuition rates even higher.
8
Because Bernie offers your kids the same opportunity - to go to college for free.
1
What an absolutely phenomenal article. I was on the train when I read it and struggled hard not to cry. Btw I am a senior citizen; I’m not a young person like these guys. But my heart, and my hope, goes out to them.
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@Dave Wharton I'm right there with you Dave. I'd love to know the average age of the people who've written callous responses lacking in empathy. I'm going to guess their Gen X. That generation was all about finance and making as much money as possible. A huge brain drain was created by the numbers of smart Gen X people who went into some branch of finance. Image if they'd had their country in mind rather than their wallet when they chose their major.
1
A great article with a very familiar story. I hope Democrats learn to listen and respond to voters, rather than blaming them.
So many comments here, unfortunately, show that many Democrats haven't been interested in learning the lessons of 2016.
48
What’s the lesson? That when Bernie supporters don’t get their way they will help re-elect Trump? That’s exactly what he is saying and that’s exactly what happened in 2016.
16
@Diane Bancroft no, the lesson is that we need a Democratic Party that actually sees government as a positive and believes in a social safety net for the people, not just corporations. This is a winning argument. The vast majority of people are sick of our welfare for corporations and the rich.
2
One thing Sanders must say to his supporters is that all his plans and policies mean nothing unless the Democrats control Congress and even then many may not pass both houses. . If Sanders wins and the Republicans control the Senate, McConnell, if he wins, or his successor will not be very cooperative,
57
If Sanders wins, his supporters for sure will vote for Dems down the ballot. I am not so sure about Biden, after all he attracts Reps who tend to vote for Rep down the ballot.
7
@Steve
And if the Senate remains in Republican hands, how will Biden get anything through either?
5
One thing that is missing from the debate is the cost of a college education. Why did tuition go up so much over the last decades? If the „public“ would pay for all college education, would they like to finance the sometimes bloated administrations, the great amenities now more and more available on a college campus? According to ED.gov, there are about 14 million college students in a 4 year program (out of a total of 20 million). Average tuition across all 4 year institutions is around $28,000. That’s about $420 billion per year. The total for all college education is likely more than $500 billion, I.e. every household in the US would have to pay, on average, $4,000 per year. I’d assume costs for college education would need to come down, if you want to „sell“ free college education to the wider population.
30
@Wolfgang Moehler Gov gives “free” loans to students, the colleges inflate their prices, and the cycle continues
Honestly for just ending the gov student loan program entirely. Let these over inflated colleges collapse
1
Sadly his not voting in 2016 is proof his self interests rule supreme. Be interesting to see if he’s able to vote beyond the end of his nose this year.
452
How the voting for the candidates who do nothing for him, is anti-self-interest behaviour ?
25
@Ramona Why shouldn't his self interests rule supreme? This guy is struggling. But you think he should vote for someone else's self interests?
34
@Ramona
Maybe those Biden voters could do the same. Where are the policies that would address this problem. It doesn’t have to be free college and complete loan forgiveness for everyone, but the Biden proposals won’t cut it.
I keep hearing that the young should “compromise”, but I’m really hearing “take it or leave it”. The may just leave it! They don’t owe you their vote. You have to earn it, just as Sanders does.
37
This man does not seem to know what he wants. Life as not been fair to him but why should others pay for his student loan debt.
Paying off the debt for bankers saved jobs and pension plans etc. It's not fair but different.
The problem is that some on the left want immediate change which is not possible.
Every one seem to accept no change on the right but want each Democratic president to work meracle. He would rather vote Trump than Biden and did not vote for Hillary.....how can u take these people serious who are looking for heaven on Earth.
80
@Sandra
So why should he pay to save your job or pension plan?
4
@Sandra
You pay for millionaires that guy corporations, abuse bankruptcy etc costing people jobs for their gain. They fly around in jets with heated seats. Don’t see anyone having problem with them expunging their debts.
2
Why should he vote for Dems who offer him no solution for his problem? There are millions of such people, who are gets ripped of by the system, that allows to jack up prices for education, jack up interest rate, jack up the cost of housing. And when they talk about their problems, all what they hear ' it is your fault'. Why should they voter for such candidates?
7
First, let me applaud the NYT for finally running a more positive story about Bernie Sanders and why he draws so many people to his cause. There are a lot more stories out there, and it would be nice for some balance to the "This is why Sanders can't win" and "This is why I'll never support Bernie Sanders" stories that we've been treated to since 2015.
The Michelz's story is a microcosm of what's being experienced by millions of Americans, some worse, some better perhaps, but all suffering from the oppression by the 1% on the 99% for decades. And when they hear a guy like Bernie who has lived his whole life fighting the causes of this oppression offer up solutions for it, they listen. Many of them don't like Trump, but prefer him to the "same old, same old" offered up by mainstream Dems, and they're not going to vote for Biden.
One thing Sanders should do is to emphasize how his agenda is really a return to the values that Americans once cherished and I believe hunger for again. Being able to raise a family, give your kids a good education and keep them healthy, and provide a role model for becoming a self-sufficient adult are things beyond the grasp of most in today's economy and environment. His is not a radical agenda, but a common sense, values agenda, and if he presented it that way it would win a lot more support, even from conservatives and Republicans. His "socialism" is of the family, not the state.
I hope to see more fair and balanced reporting of Sanders here.
702
@Kingfish52
I agree this was a fair and illuminating story. The problem is, is anyone paying attention?
There's nothing radical about wanting Americans to have a chance for a quality K-16 education, good-paying jobs, and healthcare for their families. That Americans don't understand that -- particularly now of all times -- astounds me.
But all you have to do is read the comments about Joe Biden's lack of a childcare plan in the op-ed section today. It's I've got mine and to heck with the rest of the country and their kids.
100
@Kingfish52 I am not sure we have the same understanding of what Bernie is proposing. He wants to eliminate all student debt and make all medical aid free. That sounds great until you think about it. Nothing should be for free because once something appears to be free it is wasted carelessly.
If going to college is free people will take a lot longer to complete their study, as we have seen in the sixties and seventies. Besides, not everyone benefits from it, so why would people who do not attend college need to pay taxes to fund the education of others? Making medical aid free is great for professionals in the health care industry - they will get a lot of additional work to do - but not so great for us tax payers.
Why not be less radical and ask a reasonable price for each year of college education, e.g. $10K? And lower the obscenely high student interest rates to say 1.88%, or the rate the banks pay to the government (as Warren once proposed)? Both can be done retroactively as far as I am concerned. My health care plan has out of pocket expenses and deductibles for a reason - they encourage people to live healthier and limit access to health care workers to when it is needed.
Sanders is not a return to what we once had. It goes far beyond.
26
@avrds I've seen your posts here often enough to know that you know why more Americans don't understand what Sanders is proposing. This was the first article that I know of that presents Bernie's ideas in a favorable light, although even at that, it comes from a supporter and is not a turn about on the part of the editorial board's stance (yet).
I truly believe Bernie could win the turn out he's seeking if he reframes his pitch to demonstrate that his brand of socalism is "socialism for the family", not the state. The things he's pushing for are, as you noted, are not radical. In fact, they're the things Americans used to have to some degree.
Even though health care was still for-profit, it was affordable, and many people had affordable, comprehensive health insurance, often through their employer or union, and those who didn't have health insurance could often get much lower charges from their doctors so they could afford it.
Good paying, dependable jobs were available, enabling families to live comforatbly on one paycheck (I'm not advocating a return to "stay at home moms", but husband or wife should have the choice to stay home and raise their kids). In fact, people could afford to have families, unlike now where those like the Michelz put that off, sometimes until too late.
Is this "radical"? No, it's actually mainstream, and what most Americans want. It's the message I think Bernie needs to amplify.
52
Mr. Michelz speaks for many Americans and, sadly, the Democratic Party establishment is not listening.
In many ways Biden is the perfect candidate to represent the party this time, replacing Clinton in 2016. He was, after all, the man arguing on behalf of the credit card industry against Elizabeth Warren who came to Washington to fight for average Americans like Brian Michelz.
I do not, however, see Michelz's vote as "nothing to lose." We all have much to gain if Sanders wins the nomination. The people of this country are hurting. Sanders may not be able to solve all of our problems overnight, as so many here like to argue, but at least he will try. At least he will fight the good fight on all of our behalf.
318
@avrds the sad thing is that I think the DNC is in fact listening but is also very eager to protect other interests. The goal then becomes to try to convince people that they are wrong in their assessment of what's best for them.
I keep hearing how Sanders won't get anything done, but if elected he'll do the country massive intangible services. He'll highlight income inequality as a key cause of the problems we face as a society. He'll reestablish a genuine left in American politics which will help to move the center back to the actual center. He'll raise Americans' expectations of living in a more egalitarian society. He'll rip the false covers of normalcy and decency from the status quo under which a few benefit and so many suffer. I have little doubt he'll change the tone of American politics for years to come for the better. And if in fact he can't get anything passed he'll stir up widespread legitimate anger that I expect voters will be eager to channel.
27
@avrds If he wins the nomination, I will vote for Sanders. But if the choice is between Trump and Biden, I don't see how anyone financially hurting can fail to see who the better choice is.
And, by the way, Ruth Bader Ginsberg is not going to live forever. Giving Trump more SC seats is a terrifying thought.
25
@avrds Yes, the false meme that "Sanders won't be able to get anything done" is maddening. But here's the question I put to those who blindly repeat it:
Even though Sanders didn't get elected in 2016, did he not move the Overton Window to the left substantially? He passed no legislation, or signed any Executive orders, and yet every Democrat who ran supported many of his ideas in whole or in part. How is that "Not getting anything done"?
18
Lots of student loan forgiveness programs (federal and state) for nurses, https://studentloanhero.com/featured/student-loan-forgiveness-for-nurses/.
22
@moderation easier said than done. My sister worked in a rural area specifically for loan forgiveness.
Too bad her hands were tied and her hospital management didn’t bother to do their part of the application. It sounds dreamy until you depend on someone else (republican management in a rural area) to sign up for your democratic initiatives.
2
Mr Michelz hasn’t been paying attention if he thinks a vote for Republicans is going to help him with his debt, yet middle class Americans are screwed precisely because of people like Mr Michelz who don’t take the time to educate themselves. Yes, Biden, for all his many flaws is way better than Trump. So I’ll vote for him in November. I don’t like Sanders either, but if he is the nominee I’ll othe for him. The difference between Biden as President and Trump? If Sanders manages to pass a bill, Biden won’t veto it. Trump will. Maybe one day they’ll wake up.
572
@Doug K I am also a vote-blue-no-matter-who, but unless you are in an economically precarious position that you can speak to, don't tell voters whose lives weren't economically improved in the Clinton or Obama years (when inequalities increased too) that voting blue is some magic economic panacea. It's a myth that corporate democrats lift the lower-middle class.
80
That is the problem: for you there is the difference between Trump and Biden; for Michelz there is none. None of them offers the relief for his problems or offers him better opportunities. From his point of view,Trump or Biden doesn't matter, but voting for Trump is his way to get at Dems who treated Sanders unfairly.
50
This young man lacked common sense - going to private college financed with student loans into education field and shocked it doesn’t pay well? His medical debt was already one strike he didn’t deserve but he then swings for fences and strikes out and expects the taxpayer to bail him out.
He doesn’t need a new car with heated seats. He could find a reliable used car with same option coming off of lease. His girlfriend should look into debt forgiveness programs for nurses. There are options. Same for teachers in low income public schools.
I get that it’s easy to lash out at others but sometimes you have to look in the mirror.
48
I think they are missing something. Aren't there loan forgiveness programs for people who work at the VA, public health clinics, etc?
16
@moderation check the stats on the folks who caught loan forgiveness. The system is designed to reject 99% of applicants. Its insanity.
33
@moderation : there are generous bankruptcy laws for PRECISELY this situation -- a penniless 18 year old kid who gets in an accident, and cannot pay off his hospital bills.
Mr. Michelz is 29 -- he got injured at 18 -- 11 years ago! why did he not declare bankruptcy on these debts LONG AGO?
Why did he drag this debt into his marriage?
1
I wish every centrist democrat would read this. There's a lot of presumption going on when folks blame Sander's supporters for Hillary losing. She (and Biden etc) never spoke to these folks and there's nothing about the centrist message that addresses crushing debt and the class catastrophe happening for folks like Mr. Michelz. As a new recession seems to be showing its head over the horizon, I'm completely deflated that Biden could likely be our nominee when we've got someone in the mold of FDR right in front of us (Bernie and for a moment Warren).
296
@Michael whenever I read an argument that Sanders cost Clinton the 2016 election I always look for some defense of her failure to even bother campaigning and persuading people in for example Wisconsin -- a state that's generally consistently but barely gone blue given the roughly equal balance between its rural and urban populations, and of course was one of three decisive states that went red in that election. It even had a two-term Republican governor at the time who at one brief point might have been her opposing nominee instead of Trump. But I rarely see this mentioned and I never see it defended. Just Comey, emails, Russia and of course Sanders. Everything but Clinton's own glaring failure to read the room.
20
@Michael There are 100 members of the Senate, 435 members of the House, 50 governors, and over 7,100 state legislators that have a HUGE impact on domestic policy in this country. Add to that mayors/city council members and county officials (they who give massive tax breaks to companies like Amazon in hopes of getting "good jobs" for their community). Why the laser focus on the president to the exclusion of all others who bear responsibility for policy? Don't you remember the phrase, "The President proposes, the Congress disposes." If you want policy changes in this country, they have to happen all up and down the ballot. Biden/any president has control over foreign policy and appointments (with Congressional oversight). The president is the moral/inspirational leader ... but really the rest is up to everyone else. So stop thinking that Bernie can fix it all and that Biden will fix nothing! And if you don't like it, run for office yourself.
24
@Michael —
1. Read up on Joe Biden. Joe has strongly supported working Americans throughout his political career and will continue to do so.
2. Sanders would be doing much better if he campaigned as an FDR/Harry Truman Democrat, instead of as a Democratic Socialist.
13
Borrowing 100,000 is a terrible idea. No president will be able to erase that debt no matter what they're promising.
57
@CJT
She did it for nursing school, not an undergraduate degree in filmmaking or urban studies.
What would you have suggested instead, if she had an expectation of earning a living outside an Amazon warehouse?
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@jrd Here in Pennsylvania, community colleges provide a very affordable path toward a nursing career. Yet I've seen many people pass up that option and choose one that causes them to take on a lot of debt.
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As someone who has been in nursing edict for more than 25 years, I can tell you that most community colleges and many 4-year Nursing programs are in such high demand that there are long waiting lists (>1year) to get in or to start the clinical portion of the degree. It is so competitive in some areas that if you less than a 3.8 GPA, forget it. Private schools, including for profit institutions, offer more options to get the degree much sooner.
And yes, there are loan forgiveness programs for nurses and teachers, but they are also quite competitive and can require relocation far from home.
It’s not as simple as it seems.
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Michelz needs to think long and hard about throwing away his Sanders vote to either Trump or not even voting. By doing either one of those things he only punishes himself and his family.
As disorganized as the Dems are, they at least will try to make things better for those in need. They have lots of historical evidence that that is the case. The Republicans have NO evidence of that.
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@Watchful
That's some endorsement of the Democratic party.
Maybe it's time for the party to venture to do a bit more?
The alternative is lecturing people like Michelz, and losing again.
Which will it be? Alas, we already know the answer.
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@Watchful His family has already been punished under Bush, Obama and Trump. It'll be the same under Biden
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Apparently, Dems are not trying too hard, and they are hostile to the candidates who is trying to introduce changes. Maybe, another four years of Trump will teach Dems to care about all people.
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I don't understand people such as Brian Michelz. By not bothering to be informed or to vote, they basically cede important decisions that directly affect their lives to the fraction that bothers to vote. American society could have moved so much more forward if Brian Michelz and those like him participated in the system instead of letting themselves be victimized by it.
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But he clearly educated himself and chose to support Yang, then Bernie. He just doesn't see how to vote for Biden will help him.
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@yulia But he clearly didn’t educate himself, because he somehow believes that voting for Trump will help him. How do you explain that?
How, too, do you explain how he is educated about Sanders’s policy positions if he will vote for Trump instead? No true supporter of ANY of Sanders’s or Yang’s positions would go near Trump policies with a ten foot pole. Yang spoke extensively on climate change, Trump still thinks it’s a Chinese hoax. Bernie is against corporate graft and the existence of systems that create billionaires, Trump literally encourages and benefits from both.
You can’t claim someone is educated in math if he thinks 2+2=10. That’s what voting for Trump after Sanders is.
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@yulia But he clearly didn’t educate himself, because he somehow believes that voting for Trump will help him. How do you explain that?
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“You know, I don’t think I would,” he said. “Nothing against him as a person. But my life probably wouldn’t change if he became president. I don’t think other peoples’ would either. So, what’s the point?”
He needs to ask his wife, his Black friends, his LGBTQ friends, and his Latino friends if they agree.
Also, he should actually read Biden's policy positions. They are not 2008 positions. They are not even HRC-2016. Bernie has had an influence.
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@Heather @Erik Grasso
Many Bernie supporters see that a vote for any corporate funded candidate on any side is the same. This is exactly what happened in 2016. The corporate media starts to endlessly scare people about Bernie and convince people that the moderate is more electable. Then all the establishment figures endorse their candidate further convincing the mainstream they are more electable because they won a bunch of states democrats never win anyway. Then the net effect is that the mainstream of democratic voters elects the mainstream moderate corporate funded candidate. The progressive Bernie supporters see it happen again and again and they stay home or vote for Trump in spite. Then tbere is low turnout on the left and the right have their legions voting (because they nominated their Bernie) and DEMOCRATS LOSE AND WONDER WHY. Obama didn’t give a public option and he lost progressives and democrats got killed in the midterms, the red wave in 2010. He got re-elected with ease because Republicans ran Romney and didn’t have their Trump yet. Biden has been funded by credit card companies in Delaware, and over saw the redistribution of foreclosed homes to big banks, rather than to individuals. This will not fly for many progressives and Bernie supporters. This will depress the outcome on the left, while the rights will be maximized. There is only one way to defeat Trump and it is for all Democrats to get behind Bernie’s legions of supporters and maximize turnout.
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@Heather - I have heard Biden speak many times but I'm still unsure of his policies/politics. I'm voting for Sanders who stands for M4A, end of student debts, free college, mitigating climate change, an end to private prisons, an end to Citizens United, expansion of Social Security, end to fracking .... I'm leaving out things for brevity. I think Biden wants to cut social security, is that why you are voting for him? He is for big banks, is that why you are voting for him? He is for the military-industrial complex (he voted to go to war), do you work for the military-industrial complex? Do you get my point here?
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@Heather You are missing the point. Politics is not just about having the right policies. It’s about publicly expressing the feelings of the people you represent. Politics is a performance, and Biden is not a convincing performer. Also, people are not stupid. Why should we pay more attention to the policies he claims to support than the sources of his funding?
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I checked an average salary (before overtime) for nurses in WI is about $70,000. Health insurance overage should be excellent and, as I mentioned before, there should be student loan forgiveness.
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@moderation why should debt forgiveness exist? Were they forced to take out loans? I paid off my student loans. Will they refund my money? How is this fair...why should I subsidize these people?
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@moderation
She is making around 70k and needs loan forgiveness? The younger generations have gone soft.
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But that is average that could mask very low salaries for many nurses with few making much more.
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If Biden is the nominee, the outcome will be the same as 2016. Progressive Bernie supporters described in the article will see it as another choice between bad and worse and they will stay home or vote in spite for Trump. The elite establishment just can not see it or learn what the RNC learned in 2016 when they embraced Trump and Trumpism. Bernie is the only way to defeat Trump. Nominating Biden will end the same way as nominating Hillary, they will lose to Trump. The very people the DNC is supposed to represent will not accept another millionaire corporate funded candidate, they see the money in politics as the source of all evil.
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@Erik Grasso Bernie primary voter in 2016. Bernie can't close the deal on the easiest field he's got: the Democratic primaries. He scares people. Fair or not. He does not know how to speak to people who aren't already on his side. Turnout on Tuesday was much higher then 2016. The youth vote for Bernie did not show up. The 2018 midterm electorate did show up. That winning coalition of Democrats, moderates, and independents voted, and, if you look at the Bernie/Warren totals versus the Biden/Bloomberg totals, the moderates had a much stronger showing. Those people will vote in 2020, and they will elect Biden because they want change. Really simple change: boot Trump.
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@Erik Grasso What elites ?Democracy does not mean u get to choose for everyone.
Did the elites go in the voting booth and tell person's how to vote on super Tuesday.
Ur guy lost, accept it and stop trying to dismiss the voters in Virginia etc.
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I have to disagree. HIllary Clinton lost in the places that counted because people disliked and found her untrustworthy on a personal level, not an establishment level. Joe Biden is not the same polarizing figure. JB would have ran and been elected if the country wasn’t a victim of HC’s hubris. If Bernie supporters can not support JB after losing the primary they will be responsible for the terror a second term Donald Trump will unleash.
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