February’s data: How were we doing with employment before the coronavirus had real effects? See http://worksnewage.blogspot.com/2020/03/on-eve-of-coronavirus-crash-fine-month.html.
Thank god Dr. Deborah Birx is now really in charge of the US response and abominable Pence and his boss can continue to stumble around and give their elbow bumps and worthless proclamations.
COVID-19 does not threaten the existence of life on earth. REPUB-19, the Republican virus, does. At its current level of virulence, it is on track to kill millions worldwide and drive half of all species extinct by 2050, yet NOTHING is being done.
2
The logic of keeping NYC schools open regardless of a widespread outbreak is completely unacceptable. What is going on.
13
We all need to work on our viral immune system it seems. I'd like to know if Black Elderberry and tree sap resins and the like could be broadly distributed.
Our nation not only needs health care for all we need preventative and nutritional health education and nutritional foods for all.
New York's govenor and legislation represents the kind of leadership we need federally.
If anyone is going to act and be like this, in my view its Bernie, who fights for people first and profits second.
That aside, almost anyone other than Trump, who has even a single public service bone in their body would be doing much better.
"Just staying home" for people who are sick will not contain this extremely contagious virus. In the meantime, personally, I'm ordering large quantities of black elderberry extract and drinking lots of purified water.
Let's hope that career public servants will do what they can to overcome the massive leadership gap at the heads of our government at this time.
I'd love to know what other preventative anti-virals are out there than black elderberry extract like found in Sambucol in drug stores. For full disclosure, I don't have any financial or other interests in Sambucol and I purchase black elderberry extract from a different source that is organic and doesn't have near as much sugar.
14
@Tom Paine Recently one of my co-workers swore she wasn't going to get sick this winter because she takes elderberry, and she refused to get a flu shot. I covered the cost of my flu shot (lost my insurance last fall) by picking up her hours for the week she had to call off sick. I picked up another few shifts for another coworker who also insisted that all her essential oils were going to keep her healthy. I'm the only person in our small facility who got a flu shot and who doesn't use any OTC vitamins, or oils and the like, and also the only one that hasn't gotten sick.
22
@Tom Paine
Tree sap? Good grief. Yes, I'm sure the government will get right on it.
16
@Malinoismom
A flu shot here is $20 Australian which is less than American dollars.
Wow you had to do all that work for a flu shot? Here if you have a chronic condition it's free.
Health costs in America are a scam. They don't want you to now what other countries provide.
They are making a fortune out of your terror of so-called socialism. I feel for Americans- you have been comprehensively hoodwinked
17
Mortality rate of Coronavirus.
Compare to the fact that regular seasonal flu generally kills far fewer than 1% of those infected.
China 3.7%
Italy 4.2
S Korea 4.6
Japan 1.4
Iran 2.6
France 1.3
Spain 2.0
USA 5.5
USA has way too many death cases(15) to the total cases of 272. Let's assume the US mortality rate is same as French rate, then the US total cases will jump from current 272 to 1200. This is about right.
23
@uji10jo
Where do you get your numbers from? I have Korea at less than 1%, based on active cases.
Having said that, the use of active cases is problematic as we do not know which of those will die. as the infection rate is still growing exponentially, the calculation you have done is bound to skew the death rate lower. That beings aid, asymptomatic cases will skew it higher, so it isn't a bad ballpark for now. Ultimately, we will know if and when this is all over.
6
It may seem interesting to compute a mortality rate for each country but unfortunately or rather fortunately the numbers of reported cases are not high enough in the instances of the US or any country with a similar number of cases in order to obtain a good mean value. Statistical fluctuations are way to high for relatively small sample sizes ( In one region more elderly could be infected while in another the sick might be younger which is not unlikely if one considers that it spreads locally and thus leads to clusters of infected people. With higher numbers across the population such phenomena become less important.) In this sense the mortality rate for China is the most realistic one there is yet, then followed by the rates of Italy, Iran and S.Korea. There one can still argue that infrastructure, general public health and average age play a crucial role and thus would lead to varying rates for different countries or regions.
The main point might rather be that the mortality estimate based on the reported cases is higher than influenza.
3
A large number of the deaths were elderly patients in a nursing home though. Better evidence of undercounting is inadequate testing.
4
The president just stated at his CDC visit this afternoon (Friday) that anyone who wants to be tested should go get a test Testing kits aren't available!!!
He either doesn't know what he is talking about or is lying. In either case, he isn't fit for office. His statements are dangerous.
94
I want to share a few thoughts on Coronavirus. I am a physician. What nobody in the media is discussing is the fact that Coronavirus may be nothing more than a bad cold in many, many people. Recently, I was sick for a few days. I had a low fever and a dry cough. Then I got better. Maybe this was Coronavirus? Maybe this is all Coronavirus does to a lot of people? Yes, SOME people will get very sick, bit this is no different than a bad flu season. The hype is crazy. My advice.....go about your business, and buy heavily into the stock market. You will make a lot of money when the madness subsides.
22
@Vijay No different to the flu? There is a vaccine for the flu.
There is no money to buy stock. I just lost $30000
So are you here to give stockmarket advice or medical advice?
You wrote
"Recently, I was sick for a few days. I had a low fever and a dry cough. Then I got better. Maybe this was Coronavirus?"
How would we know Vijay? You are the doctor.
8
@Bob Guthrie
Vijay is entirely correct. I practice medicine 50 miles from D.C. in the vicinity of 4 busy international airports. Despite having a highly mobile local population this Scourge of God has yet to penetrate the National Capital region to any extent. Yet we have had hundreds of influenza cases, some requiring intensive medical care, a few resulting in death. This happens every year, with little or no coverage in the media.
This hysteria reminds me of the time Johnny Carson said that the country was facing a toilet paper shortage- not true, but the irrational public response actually generated one.
3
@Vijay My advice from fellow physician to fellow physician-can you educate yourself and read few medical research papers about Covid-19, before you voice your opinion online?
16
It’s flu season. Millions yearly get sick. Tens of thousands die. Dog bites man.
2
The mortality rate for Coronavirus is considerably higher that of the flu, much closer to the disastrous Spanish flu epidemic of 1918. This is not much ado about nothing.
29
@Earl M, but what is the ratio of people that die to number of infected? 1:10,000? 1:100,000. Even 1:1000 are good odds.
This is 1:50. I want no part of those odds.
5
@Earl M Oh, so that makes it okay to have another more deadly virus loose?
5
Declare Martial Law is the only way to save lives at this point...it is time to act!
4
@Fred. Don't give 45 ideas about martial law. He'll act on it, cancel the elections and declare himself president for life. I'm confident that SCOTUS would have no issues if 45 Zimbabweanized the US.
16
All this sounds too Orwellian to me. People.. stop panicking. Nature is taking its course. The strong will survive.
2
@MCH - I would very much like my older parents, one of whom has an underlying health condition, to survive this whole business unscathed. Your “nature taking its course” and “the strong will survive” platitudes will not be comforting to me should my family somehow come down with this. Maybe instead of telling the rest of us to calm down - considering that many of us have genuine concerns about this virus - you could be a little more compassionate and kind.
32
@MCH
I’m sorry, I’m not willing to just write off the potential deaths of my elderly grandparents as “nature taking its course”. It would be a tragedy for my entire family.
16
@MCH
Orwell died of TB a respiratory disease (bacterial not viral) at a young age. Have you read Down and Out in Paris or London? The Road to Wigan Pier? Or just 1984? As an Orwell fan I always notice when people cite him. They usually do not realise he fought for the left in the Spanish Civil War. The 2 books I just cited are full of dire health issues.
Your comment seems to relate more to Darwin's survival of the fittest than anything Orwell wrote. By hinting at 1984 you seem to imply conspiracy- that this is just a Big Brother
falsity. Trump thinks the WHO figures are "false". He might be mistaking the organisation for the band the Who or perhaps Doctor Who- science fiction.
MCH somebody should tell you it is real. Trump is not doing that... clearly
13
I grew up in the forties and fifties when hospital rooms and floors were typically scrubbed down by older women down on their hands and knees in front of tin scrub buckets utilizing scrub brushes and bars of hard yellow Octagon soap made of lye to get their work done.
My own mother was devoted to this soap, and I personally knew a few of these women who, to put it mildly, were fanatically good hospital floor cleaners,
I believe this soap is still commercially available, but I greatly regret to say that these good women are no longer with us.
I made a personal vow to myself a long time ago to stay out of hospitals unless and until some adequate substitute can be found for these women, and it again becomes safe to eat off of hospital floors, which currently and for the last 30 years it has not been.
I leave it to Vice President Pence, who recently was placed in charge of this matter, to give urgent attention to it before our hospitals death rates skyrocket.
24
@A. Stanton Mike Pence promised 1.5 million tests this week; we may get 75,000. Pence went fundraising last Friday; Trump is fundraising in Mar A Lago this weekend. This dynamic duo;Pence/Trump are worried about Money; not our lives and not Hospitals/Floors.
15
I doubt he has given one second’s thought to washerwoman,
7
A Stanton, Dallas
Good luck leaving the handling of the pandemic to Pence. He barely believes in Science.
7
Look no further. Three presumptive cases in New Jersey without travel. I surmises that some folks might have exotic culinary repertoire like omnipresent deer, black bear, obnoxious wild turkey and Canadian geese, meaty invasive eye and snapping turtles, commercial domesticated goats. The Wuhan seafood and wild animals wholesale market is not unique. Bon Jersey.
1
A question for the highly educated liberal elite: Would the US have had more tests for COVID-19 if Hillary Rodham Clinton been president? And I mean tests ready from the get go; tests already developed when there was no such thing as COVID-19?
4
@Southern Boy
Answer from a "highly educated liberal elite" blah blah blah:
Yes. She would have. Because she wouldn't have gutted the funding of the CDC and the entire federal pandemic chain of command.
85
@Southern Boy
We certainly would have still had the CDC's Infectious Disease Prevention team, which Trump fired in 2018.
49
@Southern Boy
You're using false logic to ask a nonsensical question. Would she have had "tests ready from the get-go, tests already developed when there was no such thing as COVID-19?"
No. But as another reader has already pointed out, she wouldn't have wrecked the CDC and other pandemic-response agencies through incompetence and stupidity, which is what Trump has done.
39
Panic and hysteria are very good qualities for focused analysis. That's what is in most of these comments besides the standard Trump bashing, who has actually been right with most of his predictions.
2
@Tammy
It is increasingly likely that Trump's prediction about lower mortality rates will turn out to be true.
3
@AACNY
Unless an outright cure is found Coronavirus 19 isn’t going anywhere. It’s likely to recede like a cold virus in the summer months (but never disappear completely in infections) then come roaring back in the fall, (The Spanish Flu of 1918 really kicks in fall of 1918) no matter who is President.
4
@Tammy
Trump was right that this is all a hoax by the Democrats to crash "his" stock market?
Huh.
8
I don't fault China for how it has handled the virus crisis.
I fault China for learning nothing from many earlier viral outbreaks from eating random meat. China should have started building a huge PR campaign to stop people from eating nasty wild caught market killed meat after SARS, Ebola, MERS. Can you people please start a FDA to regulate the nation's food supply, and can you farm what you intend to eat? Ignorant, and a quarter of the world's population....
17
It won't come as a surprise if we read in the Nytimes in a couple of months the following headline:
"The Astroid Death Toll Reaches 12 Million"
We are leaving in a real Surreal world. I think the global and regional methods of governance must be modified so as to reduce human concentration in metropolitan areas. The capitalist concentrated metropolitan life has left humanity prone to such unanticipated disasters as the Covid-19.
2
Please provide context to this issue! I understand this is serious, but the reporting is being sensationalized. Their is a picture of a commuter prominently wearing a mask in Waterloo Station, yet clearly in the back most commuter s are no. It states "one Britain has died". How many have died from the flu in the same period, or slips in the bathroom. Please stop trying to panic people.
18
@Steve B 1. I genuinely do not see panic.
2. I still don't understand why people point to the flu, and easily spread and less fatal disease, as a reason not to worry about this easily spread, more fatal disease. Rather than pretend there is nothing to worry about, I would like governments to continue to make every possible effort to limit total infections of this far more deadly virus.
3. Finally, thank you New York times for providing timely and thorough reporting covid-19, including repeatedly providing flu statistics to mollify those who need additional context.
44
@bp I agree with your 2. Just because many die from the flu doesn't mean we shouldn't be doing everything possible to stop this from becoming as wide-spread as the flu!
Plus, how many recent deaths attributed to the flu were actually from COVID-19?
5
I'm not sure how bathrooms work in North Carolina, but in the rest of the world, slips can't be spread by casual contact with someone who slipped before. Again, I don't know what goes on in North Carolina, but out here we don't buy bathroom-slip vaccines. We put anti-slip pads on the floor and in the bathtub. We take reasonable precautions to prevent a danger.
The NYT is not sensationalizing the seriousness.
8
It is very telling that the British National Health Service is short of beds, ventilators, masks, etc. Clearly, they can’t even begin to protect their health care workers, let alone the patients. Socialized medicine, which I applaud for its achievements in many health outcome metrics, is not going to do well in a pandemic, where the decisions to treat will be based on triage and survival of the fittest. This will put the wood to Bernie’s central campaign platform of Medicare for all.
4
@Mary
"Socialized medicine, which I applaud for its achievements in many health outcome metrics, is not going to do well in a pandemic, where the decisions to treat will be based on triage and survival of the fittest."
As opposed to...what? American healthcare, which promotes survival of the wealthiest? Also? The NHS is notoriously underfunded, and has been for many years: the Tories hate it, but don't dare actually abolish it, so...you starve it instead and say that government is incompetent to actually help people.
What was your point, again?
324
@Mary After years of austerity cuts...
40
@Fredegunde
Yes, look at Canada to see how a properly-funded universal healthcare system is coping with coronavirus.
22
If nothing else, the current situation reveals how important real leadership and long range planning are to our national interests. We have a void of leadership in the White House which now literally threatens the lives of Americans. Yesterday Trump’s call into Hannity about the “corona-flu” (a telling slip that he later corrected to coronavirus) was shocking in its level of gross negligence. He said in a positive, encouraging way that downplayed the situation that most people were getting better by “hanging around, you know, and even going to work.” He thus essentially gave the green light to those who don’t understand or take seriously how contagious this is. Trump dismantled and defunded the agencies and teams that Obama had proactively set up to coordinate responses to and contain future pandemics. And now the face of the government response is Mike Pence who is an avowed science denier.
What other malfeasances in terms of national security, health and our well-being are compromised by Trump and his enablers that we don’t know about yet?Vote blue as if your health and life depend on it, because they do.
35
Brit here living in nyc for 20 years. My mother’s local town in UK, for the last two weeks, has had a “pod” where a nurse tests you outside the hospital for Coronavirus, dressed in hazmat type gear. The British have been told that the military will oversee the supermarkets and that only “basic” food will be available. There have been provisions made for mass graves, including Hyde Park in London to be turned into a giant mortuary. I really wish USA would wake up! The death rate of 3.5% does not include the 20% who will die from lack of ventilators and oxygen tanks. Huge numbers of dead bodies, sanitation risk? The British government has said: two to three months to peak, 2-3 weeks for peak to take place and then 2-3 months for virus to dampen down. USA military quietly preparing for a more lethal second wave to hit in Fall 2020. Please go and prepare yourselves.
81
@Temp attorney
We'll see how well the UK copes when reality bites but, yes, the appearance, at least, of thorough preparedness has been impressive. England's Chief Medical Officer (the other UK component nations have their own) Prof. Chris Witty has been something of a hero - articulate, superbly informed, calm and not afraid to tell it like it is. Everyone, British government included, seems to be listening carefully to him as the leader of the (now back in favour) 'experts'.
Furthermore, there's been no sustained campaign to discredit Prof. Witty (as there has been for Tedros and the WHO) and British opinion leaders and government ministers haven't exhausted themselves sneering and mocking other nations or in futile, unproductive blaming and criticism of Chinese science, public health, culture and politics. Some, er, 'other' countries have made anti-China sentiment a core principle of their Corona virus strategy.
21
@Temp attorney
Thank you for the reality check, scary but necessary, especially because our admin. is so inadequately dealing with this crisis. Maybe time for you to return to UK till all this blows over? Nice to have an option!
1
I am grateful to The New York Times for providing subscribers with prompt, reliable information on the outbreak.
Our safety is directly related to that of the general population. Might you consider lifting the paywall on coronavirus articles?
43
I’ve asked, too- crickets.
You can still comment though.
1
@Carley I agree that the NYT coverage is amazing and I subscribe in order to be informed. Subscriptions are as low as $4 per month - less than a latte at Starbucks. Please remember that the NYT is not a nonprofit and the CDC provides information for free. If we value what the NYT offers, we must support if financially, especially considering that it's less than apple music or netflix or HBO.....
1
I was in Seattle the weekend before the first death and attended a concert with hundreds of people. Then I returned to Yolo County snuggled between two counties in CA with the first reported cases (Solano and Sacramento Counties). Two weeks later within the incubation range from when I was in Seattle, I got a 24 hour raging sore throat. I thought wow. Do I have this Corona Virus? Fortunately now I’m better. But I wonder, was that the virus everyone is freaking out about? Honestly, it seems like much more freaking out than is actually necessary. I read all these comments and don’t get why more of us aren’t trying to tell people to chill out.
7
@Nik
COVID -19's mortality rate (3.4%) is 3400% higher than the flu (0.1%) which kills thousand of Americans every year.
Does that give you a better perspective on its seriousness?
23
And this is precisely why the epidemic will be so hard to contain in the US. Our friend Nik here spreads misinformation (a sore throat is not a symptom); embarks on an evidence-free rumination on whether he had the virus or not; and then, declaring himself to be all better, counsels everyone else to chill.
13
Actually this is a big part of the problem— for most people it is kind of a nothing virus, but that means they still go to work and shake hands and ride the subway and go to the grocery store like normal, except a little sick and coronavirus-y. A 68-yo with COPD comes along into their airspace and suddenly there’s someone in need of a ventilator.
Please, if you’re sick, please STAY HOME if you are at all able to. Protect your community.
12
With respect to Trump's ongoing grossly erroneous briefings regarding the coronavirus, we do not need to keep asking “why” he says this or that. He is grossly mis-wired. He has a severe personality disorder (narcissistic and sociopathic), deficits in attention, learning, language. He will not change. I am not in any way excusing him. In fact I think he is dangerous and evil. Thank G-d the experts are not being muzzled and the political and logistics issues are slowly shaking out.
43
The messaging around this virus is irresponsible. We aren’t talking about Ebola here, we’re talking about something like the flu, but less widespread. When it turns out this thing has been in a place for weeks before anyone even notices, that’s a sign it ain’t worth getting in a big fuss over. And yet all of these global organizations, major governments, and media outlets are out here causing hysteria. It’s like we collectively decided things were too good and we needed a little virus flavored pizazz to spice things up.
1
@Alison Berreman Do you really think that medical officials *across the globe* are getting all fussed up about no big deal? I think a more realistic conspiracy theory is that the virus may be more contagious and damaging than many governments are willing to share with the public. More likely we're not getting all the information--or we the public don't understand how coronavirus pandemics unfold as opposed to the spread of the seasonal flu--than there being a health scare plot spearheaded by health officials and medical staff worldwide in order to spice up our lives.
20
Right now, my tendency is to believe that the MSM is magnifying this all out of proportion in order to attack Trump. Sure, the corona virus is real, but we actually have little data to go on other and what there is is heavily weighted by China.
We don't know how contagious or fatal corona is. We simply don't have enough data to tell. Certainly, we don't have enough from the US to judge what the real risk level is in the US. Certainly we need to be careful, wash our hands, that kind of thing. And it might be reasonable to not make that trip to China or Iran for now. But do we really want to ruin our economy, see the stock market go down in flames. Does it make sense for us for example, to close grocery stores and starve people so they won't catch what might in all likelihood be something like a cold? Of course not. Does it make sense to close schools? Not based on the data we have at present -- and what we do have suggests that people under 50 have little risk of having a serious case of the disease.
Sure, let's get the test kits out there and find a vaccine ASAP. But let's not blow ourselves up in a panic.
The biggest epidemic we are having now is fear mongering
2
@Ralphie This started out (and continues to be) a global problem, so why on earth would you think it was about attacking Trump?
Of course panic is not warranted or helpful. But to claim that media sharing news about a global pandemic is attaching Trump is absurd.
34
It’s not “something like a cold.” The data we do have is that it spreads far more rapidly and the mortality rate is much higher than the flu. Panic is never good, but proactive measures are. Perhaps we don’t have enough data because the Trump administration’s response is largely reactive, and his reaction is to downplay the effects of the virus.
27
Fear results from a lack of knowledge. This lack of knowledge is a direct result of deliberate interference by Trump, who censored our own medical authorities and who spreads conflicting misinformation.
What we need is honest, direct answers, and preparedness. Then we can eradicate this problem without undue fear.
As an actually decent President once said, All we’ve got to fear is, fear itself.
13
Even though he has not already demanded it, we’ve begun to collect pesos to pay for Trump’s emergency spending bill. We are only surprised that he has not yet blamed Mexican and other immigrants for spreading the virus, at the behest of Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton, in order to divert attention from Hunter Biden. We know he wanted to visit the Centers for Disease Control, but was unfortunately forced to cancel the trip because his bone spurs were acting up.
29
@Mark While Trump may not have directly blamed any group of immigrants for the virus, he has blamed his interpretation of the Democratic immigration policy for the spread of the disease.
1
We all need to stop being so selfish and start thinking about how painful those bone spurs must have been to have prevented a guy as tough as Donald Trump from doing the one thing he most wanted to do - which was to visit the CDC.
53
How is the country’s leading germaphobe going to handle is upcoming rally calendar?
1
Can't NY and Ca just bypass the regime in DC and buy test kits privately or from Canada or Mexico?
The Trump performance today at the CDC was a case study in malignant narcissism
1
The media is calling it the end of the world. Calm down people, we're gonna be ok. Jeez.
Based on John Hopkins website information and if I extrapolated the data learned from the Diamond Princess Cruise Ship that was quarantined in Japan, I would speculate that there is currently 401,311 to 1,250,810 people infected with the Covid-19 virus worldwide!
I would also guess that 10,632 people have already died!
The 'Case Fatality Rate' (CFR) for the Diamond Princes was 0.85% and despite being contagious, the people on board were on a floating Petri Dish, ignored quarantine rules/regulations/areas, while confined on ship that wasn't designed for quarantine and taken care of by a crew that had no training or experience dealing with a novel virus.
Over 700 people became infected giving us a rate of 19%, which is surprisingly low given the situation. 6 people died - all over the age of 70 and who had pre-existing medical conditions. Again, surprisingly low numbers given the situation!
As a registered Democrat, I am disappointed that so many people want to blame the Feds.
Folks, the Feds job isn't to save you - that job belongs to you, local, county and state - in that order!
We need to focus on the population that is most vulnerable - Nursing Homes and Hospitals... not schools or planes!
Past epidemics show that the danger was always overestimated by factors of 3 to 10 and this is no different. This virus isn't as dangerous as the media & politicians claim!
Wash your hands, use common sense, be safe, the sky is not falling, this isn't the end, life goes on!
Why is NYT not investigating this massive failure of the US government to get millions of test kits deployed & then processed?!
3
I saw Korea has a drive thru testing process using Qtips. I know some hospitals were entertaining this idea weeks ago, what happened?
Donald Trump just called the Governor of Washington (where the most people died) a Snake. This is your leader in action.
1
It's a lousy time to have such lousy White House leadership.
2
I wish the headline used a less alarmist word or words, like "rise" or "rise sharply" rather than surge. In a time when public anxiety is on the rise, the Times should resist it's usual practice of writing stories like thrillers.
Forget it. Mick Mulvaney is out. OUT! Go to Northern Ireland!
1
Can you please add the fact that there are 327,000,000 Americans to this headline?
Weaker Abroad - Sicker at Home!
Donald Trump 2020
2
So unsurprising —
"To recap what just happened at this Trump CDC press conference on coronavirus:
___The president wore his re-election campaign hat and interrupted the event to ask a Fox News reporter if his town hall on the network had good ratings.
___He attacked CNN.
___He called the governor of Washington state, the epicenter of a major outbreak, a 'snake' and 'not a good governor', and said he disagreed with his own vice president saying nice things about the governor while visiting the state.
___Trump said he has not considered canceling his rallies and is not worried about risks.
___He made false and exaggerated claims about the availability of coronavirus tests, ignoring the reality that his vice president has acknowledged, which is that there is a shortage among US healthcare providers right now.
___He said he would prefer if people on the Grand Princess cruise remained on the ship so that US numbers would not go up.
___He gloated about his 'natural ability' to understand the epidemic."
source = https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2020/mar/06/joe-biden-bernie-sanders-2020-presidential-election-trump-coronavirus-live-updates ——
1
Save yourself. Self-quarantine for one month
Why does the proudly ignorant charlatan Trump is even mentioned when we discuss COVID-19 ?
Whatever he signed for corona-virus he did simply to look good with the equally and irreversible republican electorate, certainly ot for the good of the ntion.
In any case, the measures being taken now, are TOO LATE.
Perhaps, when enough people will die of corona-virus some people will finally realize what a failure Trump has been all his life. And not just for his multiple bankruptcies.
1
Trump's incompetence and misinformation on COVID19is infuriating.
People are dying, and trump is more concerned with himself and how he is perceived. Disgusting, infuriating , and un-American.
1
Do you know who you came into contact with two weeks ago? What you touched? How about three weeks ago? Or four?
This administration has shown itself woefully inadequate for the challenge. A marketing campaign won't work, and tweets won't intimidate the virus.
Everyone in US should be quarantined immediately for one month, every one of us is going to be exposed and many will die. Because of capitalism n the stock market Trump will not do this...he is causing our economy to die a slow death. it is going to happen regardless so we should just get it over with quick and hurry up and start the quarantine
This is ridiculous. As an engineer and scientist, my position is the test kit thing in the US has been bungled from day one. One the kinks were worked out on the basic design, there is no reason why manufacturers all across the country cannot be churning these things out. Their are many labs and third part pharmacy companies that can make them. CDC and NIH need to get more aggressive and put public pressure on Czar Pence to get off his backside and earn his pay. Trump is beyond Hope since every utterance he makes on this subject is false or stupid. Or are the slow walking the testing so it will continue to show an understated number? Would not surprise me since this is how a Trump rolls. But, still, at the end of the day, other countries can quickly ramp up production and distribution of tests that work and we cannot? Unacceptable!
NYT, Washington Post, you need to dig into this. It’s not rocket science. Same with making millions of N95 respirators.
Just do it.
We’d never have won WW2 with this level of inept management and leadership....
1
This is Trump world. The man is incompetent and exhibiting signs of serious mental illness. Anyone close to him or supporting him have to lie all day ever
Day.
Mark Meadows has sold his soul to become a Chief of Staff for Trump. Meadows will have to lie to the American people to be in this position. Perhaps Meadows is just and always has been a liar
Trump supporters you have no respect for the country or your family.
What has happened to the country of the greatest generation?
1
Newsflash! The Trump administration has figured out a way to contain the number of cases of covid-19: Ensure that there are so few testing kits available that no one will get tested. Voila! Containment accomplished. If you make it impossible to diagnose any cases, according to Trumpian notions of medicine, then there must not be any. The Republican, small-government, no-funding, "hands off" approach relies upon people staying at home and taking care of themselves. Don't bother going to a hospital for a test, because they haven't got any kits for you. Just stay home, and don't inflict yourself on anyone else, expecting help. You won't get any. What do you think the U.S. is, a society or something? Trump's best advice: Please go away and die by yourself, out of his sight. You and your illness are both icky -- so many germs! Besides, he's got a golf game to finish and then Fox and Friends is on TV soon!
3
The places where people must take care are the public restroom. Since the people spit out anywhere, It increases the probability of getting any virus.
The "president's" performance today at the CDC in which he opined on wide ranging topics (all naturally about himself) including these gems:
That his genius uncle, the fabled John Trump, Scientist Extraordinaire ...you know the greatest mind in human history is...whatever...and that maybe he, himself, Nephew Extraordinaire, should have become a, you know, like a ...like a person who does "this stuff" (expansive hand wave) and that he would have been great at it...and that maybe we should just leave all of those people on the ship because...you know... he doesn't want "his" numbers going up...etc. etc.
should be considered prima facie evidence of grotesque and dangerous incompetence. It's time to invoke the 25th Amendment. The man poses an existential threat to the well being of this nation.
2
Per Trump @ CDC “I don’t need to have our numbers double because of that ship.”
3
“New York PLEADS for” or, “requests”? I feel like this headline is a bit sensationalist, even if the need is very real.
Nope, you are not wrong --- wish you were! The defective testing kits the CDC sent out which caused the delay in testing will prove costly in terms of unnecessary cases of corona. The worst part for me is the people with asymptomatic cases that are contagious for 2 weeks and may not even realize they are sick and spreading it.
If memory serves, we had drive-thru testing during the swine flu and likely will need it again. I mean even South Korea quickly got drive-thru testing together
America's anemic late response is why it was such a bad idea for Trump to fire the epidemic response team in 2018 that had been set up by Obama.
What a complete and utter botch. The political people in charge have no idea what they’re doing. Fellow Americans, help yourselves and stay safe and sanitary. The government will not help you.
2
The only legacies Trump will be remembered for is the Trump Virus and crashing the stock market
3
Cruise ships are inherently disgusting. Did it really take a vile and dangerous virus to for these companies and their overeating, lemming-like customers to smell the pandemic?
1
Disaster movies always start with some scientist being ignored....
2
Unreal - people really try to politicize this?? I understand some people with hate anything to do with Trump but as someone who is not a member of either party - take the blinders off!!
1
@JP Welsh III
He has politicised it. He has already blamed Obama for it.
Politicising it is what Trump has done, He uses fake figures for political reasons. Another false equivalence
Quit trying to imply both sides are equally bad.
1
Let's hope the Chinese authorities permanently ban the disgusting practice of eating all those dead wild animals - bats, dogs, pangolins, snakes.
Disgusting practice that is now proven to be the primary vector of new virus crossing from the animal kingdom into human population.
Anyway, how could they eat that stinking stuff?
1
The Japanese and Carnival Cruise Lines forced the mainly Filipino crew and increased the spread among other crew members like they were servants with no human value.
Shame.
2
300 infections. 330 million people in the US. Can we all calm down please?
300 confirmed infections. Tell me, how many untested, unconfirmed cases are out there?
1
It matters not how well, or how horribly Mike Pence handles the CORVI-19 crisis. Trump is going to dump him for Nikki Haley.
Sad.
This headline is misleading. “The number of cases has more than doubled in the past 3 days”. The CONFIRMED number of cases has more than doubled, not the number of cases as a whole. This is fear mongering. Leaving out one word can and is causing panic. Its irresponsible and needs to stop. There is no hand sanitizer, soap, and toilet paper at shops, children in schools are freaking out (I teach pre-k), all anyone is talking about it Covid-19. The news organizations are causing people to become irrational and erratic while making massive profits. Get it together NYT.
With U.S. cases over 300 now an all of the states around us showing signs it’s just a matter of time. 17 people were tested in Iowa with 15 cleared and two still pending. I have a weakened immune system so when it hits I’m not planning to go much of anywhere sheltering in place with food and water reserves. My worry is my wife who’s work doesn’t have a policy in place yet for sick leave. We are just praying that we will both make it through this spared of contracting it.
6
@Benjamin Allen
Do you take the same precautions to prevent tuberculosis?
Because you are more likely to contract that disorder than having any significant medical issues with this strain of Coronavirus.
2 deaths reported in Florida. What is not being reported is if these patients had any symptoms actually related to the disease nor the actual cause of death. More hysteria.
At least Jay Inslee can feel better.
Confining uninfected with infected people is not a good way to isolate the virus.
5
Some 328 illegal immigrants from China have been nabbed jumping the U.S.-Mexico border so far this year, according to Homeland Security data that raises the prospect a coronavirus carrier could sneak into the country via the border. That wall doesn't sound so evil now, does it?
2
It has been scientifically proven that anyone can get sick but only Chinese people carry this virus. No need to be concerned about the 300 Italians who legally deplaned last Tuesday. Sarcasm very much intended.
5
With thousands of Americans crossing the Mexican border everyday to buy affordable drugs and to see affordable doctors, I would estimate that the U.S. poses more of a danger of infection to Mexico than the other way around.
5
@Mike Clarke
"That wall doesn't sound so evil now, does it?"
Nope. It sounds just as stupid and ineffective as it always has.
4
All that matters to our callous ‘president’ is to keep crew and passengers on the ship so that numbers of infected people will be lower. Evangelicals-what do you have to say for yourselves? You are, after all the ones who put him where he is.
6
Maybe the shortage of test kits is not attributable to incompetence. What is the possibility of two sequential screw-ups; the initial kits were defective, and subsequently they become available in extremely limited quantity. Is it possible the CDC is that incompetent? If ‘someone’ wanted to benefit by an extreme underestimation of the infection rate, who might that ‘someone’ be?
4
Why didn't they test all the people on the ship to begin with? The Trump administration is messing this up badly. Perhaps it's just their utter incompetence or as nuts as Trump is, he may very well be doing his best, to keep testing, and therefore the number of cases, as low as possible.
As he said, he didn't want those cruise passengers counted in the overall numbers. Some of his surrogates (Kudlow and Conway) are telling the public the virus is contained.
How Trump followers can justify their allegiance, is beyond belief.
10
So our incompetent president is heading down to Florida to fund raise and play golf at Mar-a-Lago while the Secret Service stays at his resort, courtesy of the taxpayers.
This isn't a crisis? I thought the president cared about the
(rapidly rising numbers of confirmed diagnoses of Covid-19 patients, despite the dearth of testing kits. Along with rapidly rising numbers of fatalities, no slowdown in sight, the drastic shortage in personal protective gear for health care providers and others, hospitals warning that they lack the capacity to deal with a sudden surge of patients needing isolation and/or critical care . . . )
the stock market.
American voters, at least a large swathe of them, have never been so conned by a president who campaigned as a populist. Melania's a prophetess, "I really don't care!"
3
I suggest everyone in America listen to the clips of Trump today while at the CDC listen to it's whole version. His statements regarding testing, and wanting the cruise ship passengers to stay on the ship to keep the number of cases low is remarkable. It got even worse. I can't describe how amazingly shocking this press coverage at the CDC was. He bragged about his "perfect" phone call, he bragged about how smart he is, he called the Governor of Washington State where the epidemic is intense and people are dying, a "snake". The remarks were so uncaring and cynical all while amazed professionals stood next to him not knowing what to make of it. You can't make this stuff up.
18
Not too late to implement Warren's plan to fight the Coronavirus, Mr. Trump.
7
It's revolting how the Trump administration has politicized a public health issue! Innocent people have been sickened and have died because of this virus and the administration seeks to make political hay out of this catastrophe. Is nothing sacred with these people?
8
I'm wondering at what point an employer's requirement that you come to work could be an OSHA violation? Especially for airline and cruise workers.
5
Who are we Americans supposed to believe regarding facts about coronavirus? Do we listen to Donald Trump and his far right wing sources (Hannity, Ingraham, Carlson et al) at Fox News? Or do we abide by what the CDC, who did this reporting when we were still a stable government, reports?
I'm listening to what my state government is reporting on how to deal with COVID-19. Here in California, almost no one listens to Trump for advice on anything.
7
Although Trump's handling of this crisis is unconscionable, what is worse is the sudden halt to public life the virus's spread is causing.
We are isolated enough as it is these days. Adding fear of human contact, restaurants, public gatherings, nursing homes, and travel is adding a strain to the fabric of our society that it's going to take some time to recover from.
2
it is like the middle ages.we may have 3 million or 30 million cases before it is all over.
3
If I use the WHO death rate of 3.4% and we have 327 million Americans, 11,118,000 of us will die.
Using the 1918 pandemic as a model, it will take about a year for COVID-19 to burn out.
We only have about 94 thousand intensive care beds, so how long will it be before this system becomes overwhelmed? And what are our governments plan for when this happens? What happens to the uninsured? For even those insured, how long will it be before our 'private' insurance companies go bankrupt?
So many questions. It sure would be nice if our Federal system would provide answers, instead of trying to hide under rocks, and let the 'free market' go solve its own problems.
8
Thinking that perhaps ships with possibly infected passengers should unload in Alaska rather than California. Easier to contain both people and viruses?
2
Keep things in context. The H1N1 2009-2010 swine flu killed at minimum 13,000 Americans. To date there are 14 U.S. deaths due to COVID-19. We are much better prepared today.
2
@clarity007: The coronavirus has been in US for 2 months . We have no idea how many will die in the coming year(s), so the current death toll is pretty meaningless. We did have at least a month to prepare for coronavirus since the effects were seen overseas before the first case was diagnosed here, but do not seem to have made full use of it. I believe the first swine flu case was in California, so there was no lead time for the US to prepare.
6
@Phillip G
Simple arithmetic would tell us we should have experienced 2000 deaths by now when compared to the N1H1. We are better prepared.
@Phillip G
Simple arithmetic would tell we should have 2000 deaths in 2 months compared to N1H1. We are better prepared.
Sorry to break the news but N1H1 was first discovered in Mexico. Yup. Back then borders were much more open. Very well could have migrated to CA in days.
We are dealing with a serious public health emergency here in Seattle, and Trump chooses to call our governor a “snake” . He insults our intelligence with his disinformation about testing availability and containment of cases while the number is actually rapidly expanding. His concern is not for the patients on the ship off San Francisco, but his desire to not have “the numbers” increase by letting them be evacuated for treatment. Then he boasts of his great scientific expertise. This incompetent man is a toxin, and the body politic needs to expel him from office as quickly as possible if we are to recover our health and sanity. Vote Blue no matter who, up and down the ticket.
22
@Michele
It looks like Seattle is getting the equivalent of Puerto Rico's paper towel fiasco.
My thoughts are with you--stay safe and wash your hands as often as possible.
2
On the one hand, Mike Pence says we'll test everyone. On the other hand, Donald Trump says go to work.
4
“We will be testing everyone on the ship,” he said. “We will be quarantining as necessary.”
Look, I don't WANT to have to quarantine all of them. But if they test clean on Sunday, given the hibernation of this virus, who knows what it will be like in 7 days.
By comparisons, we rounded up and "quarantined" thousands of legitimate US citizens who happened to be of Japanese heritage in 1942. By first hand knowledge, destroyed the antique business of a family in Chicago.
Best as I know, no one got infected or died.
Trump wanted the membership lists of ALL mosques in the US ... since those 2 million might be such a risk.
People screamed that anyone who had been near the source of Ebola should be quarantined for 30 days, and no Africans should be let in at all.
We absolutely need more testing--and random testing, like how many of a random 1000 people in King County WA have it already? How many "bad colds" from the last couple of months are actually this? Without data we just don't know. More testing!
Second, anyone who dismisses the panic as unreasonable...it's like you've never heard of exponents. And hospitals treating covid will have fewer resources for other things too, so there will be knock-on effects. If you're a young, healthy 22 year old maybe you won't have to worry...unless you come down with car accident trauma or cancer or high-risk pregnancy....
7
If South Korea test its citizens on demand why can’t we? The official number of infections is meaningless, we have no valid data.
11
So I hear that a highly placed official in the Trump administration has definitively stated that he has a hunch that this virus might spread, or it might not, or not that much, or maybe a lot. That pretty much tells me everything I need to know (and don’t need to know.) So I’m sleeping soundly tonight! BTW who is our Surgeon General, Marcus Welby Jr.?
9
@Charles Murphy
Because Trump gutted the U.S. emergency pandemic response team and infrastructure in 2018. Thanks to such visionary leadership we don’t have enough test kits, masks, quarantine suits. You name it, we don’t have it. And we basically have no idea how widespread this virus is. That’s Trump leadership for you.
16
@Pete Then why are there so few cases?
@J Harrod
With sincere respect one needs to pay attention. There are very few test kits to find out. There is a 2 week incubation period. Scientists say there are many more cases.
2
It's quite curious that Russia has been so quiet about this, with very few reported cases.
4
@Kevin: How many people do you think have been tested in Russia (outside the Kremlin?). Putin would probably love to say that it isn't a problem for Russia, but unlike Trump, doesn't want to go on camera making empty promises.
1
This is just the start of an unbelievable disaster in this country. An example of American exceptionalism in a very bad way. First, we have terrible, terrible leadership that is more intent on covering it up than consulting the experts to do something. Second, having a healthcare system that is incredibly conplex with many payers where each has different rules is a nightmare. When you have a single payer, you can treat everyone equal which greatly simplies the care. You also have a central billing dept. The balkanized system here makes it impossible to enact policies that can be applied everywhere. Plus, you have a large number of people without any insurance. Add to this a large number of people who are poor and have no sick leave and you have a situation where stopping the spead is next to impossible.
10
Pence praised Jay Inslee, Washington's Democratic Governor, for his handling of that state's COVID crisis. Trump publicly reprimanded Pence, insisting Inslee was a 'snake'. Pence might not have to pucker-up much longer; by all reports Trump is getting ready to drop him as running mate in favour of Nikki Haley in hopes of swaying the minority vote.
Pence also announced plans to disembark the 3500 passengers from the cruise ship off California. Trump said he'd like to keep them all onboard. His rationale is that - until their feet are on dry American soil - they are not part of the official Coronavirus count. Trump may not be the sharpest tool in the shed but even he can grasp the reality that as the COVID count rises, his much bragged-about stock market falls and with it his chances in November.
Next Trump will demand the FAA refuse landing to any airliner found to have anyone with flu symptoms onboard. If they can't land - Trump would reason - they can't add to his miseries.
9
@thegreatfulauk CDC already has stopped posting testing and current cases on their website. John's Hopkins is coordinating with states keeping accurate counts. Pretty scary these days.
10
So Trump doesn't want the sick passengers on board the cruise ship to be transferred to the mainland because that will make the infection numbers look bad? And besides "it's not our fault" that these people got sick? He is a deeply depraved human being.
19
Please prepare so you are not caught with last minute needs if events and requirements begin to change rapidly. Especially necessary medications, pet food, TP, etc. No one knows what tomorrow holds but it is best to be prepared rather than panic.
4
There's one point regarding the wearing of masks that is very confusing/ambiguous...
I've heard it repeatedly said that 'unless you yourself are sick, you should Not wear a mask... wearing a mask really won't prevent you from catching the virus...a mask is only effective when a sick person wears it, to prevent them from spreading their illness to others...'
But...what about instances where people around me may in fact have the illness, but not yet have symptoms? Or what if I myself have the illness, yet no symptoms yet? For that reason, shouldn't 'everyone' wear a mask, just in case? I mean, does wearing a mask hurt in any way?
Also, I just saw somewhere else in the NYT, another related story talking about people who've been quarantined. And in that story it said 'if someone in your home has the virus, then everyone else in the home should wear a mask'. So that seems to refute my first paragraph.
Me, I'd rather err on the side of caution and wear a mask, just in case I'm in early stages of the virus (and don't know it yet), or in case others around me are sick (and since a mask certainly can't hurt...)
7
This has become a no-brainer for me. I will listen to and follow the advice and updates from the White House. First, I will get a test tomorrow because it is available even though it isn't. Second, because I'm over 60, I'll stay close to home even though I've been told there is nothing to worry about to travel throughout the United States. I'll head to the office even though there won't be anyone there. I won't worry about being infected even though hundreds of new cases are reported daily.
And, last but not least, I'll blame Obama for this disease if I contract it even though it didn't exist three years ago.
28
People who have distrusted Trump from the start are well-advised to continue heeding their instincts, and to look to medical experts and state/local officials for guidance in weathering the COVID-19 storm.
Trump supporters might want to ask themselves just how far their blind faith in him extends. Do they trust him with their lives? Do they trust him with their elderly loved ones' lives? Are they willing to drink the Kool-Aid he's handing out?
9
FYI. When they test all the passengers and hundreds more test positive ( a likely scenario) the cases will not have “ surged”. The KNOWN cases will have but nothing will change by having proof of what already exists.
1
I think American doctor have inflated opinion of themselves. I would assume, if you have couple of thousand people confined to small square foot with re-circulating air condition air, to get them of the ship as soon as possible, separate them even if in a tent and quarantine.
These so called experts committed a huge blunder because of them even people who otherwise would not have contracted have the disease.
What this ship of California provides us with a rate at which virus spreads in a confined area, people restricted to their room data.
Unlije what these cruise ship claims vast majority of passengers have no windows.
4
California. I rode my bicycle from Las Vegas to Palm Springs. When I crossed the border south of Searchlight, on US-95 it was like stepping into another country, the roads were trashed and there was no shoulder. California has become nothing more than a facade, once you step off the beaten path, it is a very scary place. Add to that, it is poorly managed state by every metric. For over a decade, CA has been examining and planning 11 new reservoir sites, but either the local officials or residents don't want them projects to begin.
On any given year, the city of Los Angeles has half a billion dollars in pending law suits. The costs of the state prison system, the pension liabilities, capital flight, mass exodus, the exorbitant rents, commuting at $500-$700/mo on gasoline, and the problem of the homeless. You would think that with all of those issues, plus the risks of wildfires and earthquakes, the state of California would pull itself together and take on the Coronavirus with every ounce of energy and preparation. But no, that is too logical.
I really want to feel sympathy for CA, but it's as if the state leadership is addicted to incompetence. When I first visited Los Angeles, I took the metro into downtown. As I waited for a coffee from a street vendor, I watched a homeless man and his friend getting drunk on mouthwash. I was flabbergasted then, but my cycling trip finally explained why two humans had sunk so low and the city around them went on as if nothing was wrong.
2
All Covid tests should be done on prospective cases by drive-through lines of cars or at temporary urgent care centers set up in tents or vacant buildings staffed by medical personnel in full garb.
NO ONE should be just walking into an ER to sit amid with people with potential heart attack, broken bones, preganancy. This is insanity. And it puts every medical care person at risk. Makes no sense at all.
17
Perhaps Mr. Pence understands that he must fail in order for Nikki Haley to get on the ticket. That's politics.
2
The Grand Princess had 46 tests with 21 positive for Corona Virus. 3500 people on board and we are told they all will be tested. What wasn't made terribly clear was that this cruise with the positive cases and one who has died were on the first part of this same cruise. They departed Feb. 11 from San Francisco to Mexico. Then they returned to San Francisco 10 days later and 2500 passengers got off! Then the ship went on to Hawaii that same day Feb 22 for a 15 day cruise. 62 passengers and crew stayed on the ship from the earlier cruise to Mexico. On return at the end of this trip it was held off the coast of San Francisco before it could continue to Ensenada. The death of the passenger and the sick passengers who have tested positive were from the earlier trip 3 weeks ago to Mexico. Now there are positive cases in Hawaii! No surprise there. The fact that 2500 people from the earlier trip are dispersed now for weeks is concerning. This would make sense why Governor California declared a state of emergency.
5
So the numbers of infections are practically doubling by the day...and this is with countless of people who should be tested not getting tested. Just wait until our figures hit numbers in the five-digits by the middle of next week. Then watch everything come to a halt.
2
PLEASE, to the government: take control! Order everyone to work from home for 14 days, set up some kind of official food ordering and delivery to be run by gov. as needed. Cancel all lectures, classes, etc. I have to teach a hands on workshop at a museum tomorrow— this is my job and something I do regularly. But right now, it doesn’t feel prudent to be working hands on, face to face with up to 100 members of the general public for several hours. I’ve been told we’ll continue programs and field trips until the government says stop. Seriously, should I— making 40k a year— have to put my body on the line so the public experiences no disruption in our schedule? We all need to be willing to temporarily sacrifice “normality” to maintain it long term.
7
When your spouse has recently returned from Seattle and develops a cough, low grade fever and slight wheezing, you might find yourself wondering just how close you should stand to each other and the wisdom of sharing a bed till the symptoms subside. I wonder how many other partners harbor similar anxieties. Meanwhile, we’re trying to get hold of our doctor ( not easy) and self quarantining, maybe for nothing.
6
I don't understand why NYC is still trying to get test kits from fed govt. Why don't they just buy them from Europe (or from Japan, like Hawaii)? We have 4000 unsupervised people wandering around in honor-system
'self-isolation" or "self-quarantine" or some such thing. It would be nice if we had ability to test them.
3
Trump’s political decision to force all passengers to stay on that cruise ship is compounding this pandemic instead of solving it. As a result, this deadly virus is spreading like wildfire on that cruise ship. Doing what’s best for the people is of no interest to Trump- everything is judged what’s politically best for Trump.
3
It would not be a bad thing if the virus kills that climate destroying cruise-ship industry, because seniors will be too spooked to get on these ships in the future.
6
Hong Kong can test dogs owned by suspected owners. Seems odd we can't do better.
3
Thank you China.If this country had been more transparent none of this would have happened.
1
I am stunned that there isn't enough media attention paid to the lessons learned in Korea, which has been dealing with this for weeks.
1) Some numbers first: as of Mar 6, ~178,000 tests have been performed, with ~13,000 tests today. 6,767 positive cases, 45 deaths, for the fatality rate 0.66%. (Estimates for flu: ~0.1%). The rate could increase, as many are recently diagnosed, but it could also decrease if the situation is handled better. The NEJM paper last week about Wuhan cases found 1.4% fatality. In Diamond Princess, >705 tested positive out of 3711; 6 died (.85%)--all >70 yrs old.
2) The highest risk factor is age and existing medical conditions. The elderly and those with other conditions, e.g., COPD, must be hospitalized first. In the early days, this triage was not done properly and the medical system was overloaded, making it difficult to treat the high risk group. The hospitals must triage properly, given that the testing kits/hospital beds are lacking.
3) Masks are in short supply. The government has created rules to distribute the limited number of masks equitably (starting next week, each person can buy two per week). Intervention is needed to ensure that the high risk group gets adequate supply.
4) Much more to write, but there is a word limit!
Personally, I wouldn't go to a hospital to get tested since I'm not in the high risk group--that's where one is most likely to get infected!
6
@Peter I couldn’t agree more. I made your exact point yesterday.
I just looked at the CDC website which lists the number of coronavirus cases in the USA at 164, almost one half fewer than the numbers reported elsewhere. This is so far behind the number of actual cases that I think they may be being muzzled. I rely on sites like worldometer.com for my information. Their stats are quite a bit more scary, but I would rather know what's happening.
1
Perhaps this equal opportunity virus will help us expand the concept of herd immunity past immunization. We will be a stronger nation when there is equitable access to the essentials of well being - healthcare, nutritious food, affordable housing, and a livable wage. If we include environmental justice, then we can improve the health of our people and our planet.
21
Lol no one cares most will vote for trump or Biden they like it the way it is
The UK has seen 2 deaths so far out of 164 cases. The US has had 17 deaths - which if the mortality rate is similar (and that healthcare in the US isn't far far worse) suggests the US actually has around 1300 cases.
12
Statistics don’t work that way. A virus does not spread logically. However, it is clear that to s of undiagnosed run around. That is a given.
1
There’s one item I’ve not seen mentioned in any of the warnings, and although it’s not used as much these days as it once was it’s a notorious carrier of all sorts of germs. That thing is cash.
10
@Dunn Arceneaux
In Canada we have plastic currency that can be wiped clean with a baby wipe.
Might be more concerned with the debit/credit machines that everyone touches to put in a pin number.
2
There are many, many more people than the 300 cases currently admitted to be infected by the coronavirus in the United States.
We lack the capability to come anywhere near to accurately tracking the spread of the coronavirus.
We need many times the number of testing kits that exists to even get close to knowing how many people are currently infected and contagious.
When the bodies start piling up at a rate that cannot be explained away, then we will begin to have a better idea of what we're really dealing with.
That's most likely going to take about a month before it cannot be hidden or explained away.
Brace yourself.
20
Every single American needs to look at what Trump has done to the CDC's budget before they go to the polls this November.
FY 2018: 19% cut
https://www.cdc.gov/budget/documents/fy2018/fy-2018-cdc-budget-overview.pdf
(including $136.3 million cut to Public Health Preparedness and Response)
FY 2019: 19% cut
https://www.cdc.gov/budget/documents/fy2019/fy-2019-detail-table.pdf
FY 2020: 20% cut
https://www.cdc.gov/budget/documents/fy2020/fy-2020-detail-table.pdf
And another proposed cut of 19% for FY 2021.
https://www.cdc.gov/budget/documents/fy2021/FY-2021-CDC-Budget-Detail.pdf
(which includes -$25.2 million for Public Health Preparedness and Response and -$85.3 million for Emerging and Zoonotic Infectious Diseases)
Elections have consequences, folks.
97
I feel sorry for people who rely on Facebook and other social media for their news about the virus. A lot of lies are circulating. Click bait and fear mongering.
My advice: Calm down and lower your stress so you think clearly. Do this by limiting the amount of news you take in, and only follow trusted outlets: NYT, Washington Post, PBS, main stream news programs.
39
@Mary Scary time, indeed. Somebody has to remind us of this. I add "check the source". I always check who wrote the article even in NYT article!
1
The South Koreans are probably thanking their lucky stars that they did not contract out their testing to the United States. What an epic, clownish disaster America has become.
65
Look at headline, look away, look again and the number of cases is now 300.
22
My God, isn't it way past time to invoke the 25th Amendment???
46
So, Mike Pence says everyone on board the Grand Princess will be tested? Where will all the test kits come from?
31
Cruise ships are just big ole petri dishes,
if crew members get sick they might be confined but their cabinmates are usually not given other quarters...
15
I'd just like to ask the editors for some clarification on their "Answers" section. Under a separate "symptoms" fact sheet.
https://www.nytimes.com/article/coronavirus-symptoms-flu.html
The author states:
"However, the flu appears far more dangerous to children, particularly very young ones. Children infected with the new coronavirus tend to have mild or no symptoms."
I'm confused. The flu appears far more dangerous to young children. However, children infected tend to have mild or no symptoms.
More dangerous for children or children with mild or no symptoms? Which is it?
The qualifier "more" versus "less" seems pretty critical.
@Andy Flu and Coronavirus are two different infections. Children seem relatively spared from serious coronavirus infection. In contrast young children are at much more risk for complications from the flu (influenza)
20
@Andy
There is an excellent March 3 interview on the New England Journal of Medicine website where they state toward the end that children may be "asymptomatic" and therefore not tested, but it is still an open question whether that are vectors of the virus.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2004244?query=featured_home
Stock markets fell again on Friday. And the guy on the right in the photo accompanying the article is TOUCHING HIS FACE!
14
I read that people who are quarantined by our government are being billed, sometimes thousands of dollars, for the associated costs.
Given that this is a national emergency that could potentially affect anyone, it seems rather inhumane and cold hearted to quarantine potential carriers and then invoice them. Quarantine would potentially save hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Also, given the incredible tax breaks incorporated into the recent tax laws, it is hypocritical for the government to give tax breaks to the wealthy and then penalize everyone else affected by the virus because it can't afford it. Total hogwash!
28
Agreed, and if our government (like China) pays for testing and treatment, no questions asked, it is more likely to stem the pandemic.
If people have associated (expensive)costs with testing and treatment the disease’s spread will be far worse.
14
Clearly the Trump administration is following the Putin's Russian playbook: restrict testing, lie about the extent of infections, claim everything is fine just perfect, working class people should just keep working and certainly keep shopping.
26
Numbers for China just came. Only 28 deaths and 99 new cases in the entire country...they are winning! We are losing ! Can we start shutting travels with Europe before it is too late ! Most of our cases don’t come from China...
21
since we cannot test people, we have no idea how many are infected. therefore 300 people infected is wishful thinking.
32
As animated and unscripted as Trump was speaking to the poor dedicated professionals at the CDC today, lying about all the available tests, or calling the Governor of Washington a snake, it does not top the absurdity of Kellyanne Conway. At the moment 21 positive cases aboard the Cruise Ship Grand Princess were being reported by Mike Pence, Kellyanne was telling the American people how the virus is "contained."
31
@jeansch This administration believes that it is ok to lie about just about anything. When Conway is challenged about her “contained” statement watch her say that someone gave her alternative facts.
It is past time for regime change.
2
My state of Wyoming has been claiming this week that we have no cases here in WY. I happen to know that there were no test kits in WY as of a few days ago. My daughter was very sick with flu symptoms all week, tested negative for the flu, but it wasn’t even discussed that she be tested for COVID-19. She still had a fever after five days. I called her doctor’s office, but still no mention of testing her. Now I am feeling sick. We live in a tourist town that has people flying in from all over the world everyday. My husband works at our local hospital, often with patients with compromised immune systems. It strikes me as unbelievably irresponsible that my daughter wasn’t tested. I feel like the officials in WY are purposely not testing people so we can say we have no cases.
84
I find it incredibly offensive that Pompeo calls the novel coronavirus the “Wuhan coronavirus.”
44
The blame game. When the US has six weeks to prepare test kits and plans and still is unprepared, foreigners will get the blame for thousands of dead Americans. It won't be Teflon Trump and Preacher Pence.
2
Every cabinet member and Trump loyalist is offensive, amoral and criminal. It’s why they are there.
1
Please! Stop looking at the number of cases. Look at what happens to them! Most make a full recovery. Seriously, you all are going to be embarrassed when this turns out to be an "over-reaction".
6
@MM 100,000 infected, 3,000 plus death with total shutdown of Hubei. What would the number be without that draconian measure?
1
@MM Those innocent cases that you claim nothing happens to them are contagions of virus. They are hosts that are spreading the virus. In addition to spreading it so that more of the serious cases can happen, but also the more cases the more chance for the virus to mutate again and possibly become more lethal. Not harmless, and we have had the opposite of an over-reaction.
2
@MM
I’d personally rather be embarrassed by overreacting than suffer by underpreparing. Glad to have a bunch of food, supplies, and disinfectants here just in case one of us catches it and we’re stuck home for a long stretch. If I overreacted it’s still good. I don’t have to shop for awhile, fewer trips, less gas...
2
The VP says, "We anticipate that they will be quarantined on the ship, they will not need to disembark". An infectious disease scientist says, "You're going to amplify the infection by keeping people on the boat." The government's actions will intentionally infect healthy passengers on that ship. Most likely, some will die. Is that an American thing to do Mr. President?
26
If the United States had its ducks in a row every person aboard the Grand Princess would have been tested on Wednesday when the ship's movement was halted. Unfortunately tax cuts and walls to nowhere have been more important than public health.
41
Why can't the 48% of Americans who support
trump recognize his callous disregard of human life? His minimalist approach on the dangers of the virus will soon hit his base directly. His remarks concerning those on the cruise ship show he only cares about his stock market and Fox tv ratings. Can these acolytes not see,hear or count the number of lies he dropped at the CDC?
34
RealClearPolitics lists his support today as 42.8. It hasn’t increased.
@Reva Cooper
Check back after the election. Those supporters come out of the woodwork on election day. Just like us us on the left we don't believe in pollsters and don't answer surveys.
So the man who claimed ‘if elected President, I won’t have time to play golf’, is now headed to Mar a Lago for the weekend to play golf while the pandemic rages and medical professionals are in chaos over the lack of sufficient testing kits.
Barack Obama always said that his primary responsibility is to protect Americans, a commitment he lived up to 24/7. Trump never got that memo. Meantime Americans are suffering and dying as a result.
50
Hopefully folks who work at Mar-a-lago who likeky have no insurance or access to healthcare will spread the coronavirus around the place and the whole Trump family will catch it
1
I have been traveling and at one of my last hotels, people from China were my neighbors. They were well enough off that they were able to get out. I have had no symptoms, but opted not to go to my home town, because the person I stay with is immune compromised. I chose instead to stay in a friend's home while he is away and to self-quarantine, because I would feel terrible if someone were hurt, because I somehow was infected and didn't know it. It's hard, I did have to get groceries, I went with a mask. I have not traveled to any outbreak areas, but I'm playing it safe. Contrary to reports in this paper that airports and airplanes were empty, I found airports and airplanes packed, with many people's travel arrangements disrupted due to cancellations. There were a lot of people just trying to get home.
15
Someone I know posted a photo of her and her husband smiling as they began a cruise just a couple of days ago. How could anyone in his/her right mind get on a floating Petri dish and ignore the news?
31
@Allison
Easy. There are too many ignorant, stupid, clueless people now, especially in the US, Trump mania being the most recent example. Just an observation from a 79 year-old.
When I read that "South Korea is using drive-thru testing centres - inspired by the fast food counters used by McDonald's - to identify new cases of coronavirus" (SkyNews).
"Drivers can pull into car parks, where medical staff have set up stations to register motorists, take samples from their throats and check their temperatures" (SkyNews).
The COVID-19 testing difference between the U.S. and every other active nation is astounding!
When I read that foreign countries, that are the size of one U.S. state, are testing thousands of people a day and then read/hear about how the U.S. is still ditzing around, trying to get a mere 100,000, I don't feel safe. I feel more afraid of my government than I am feeling afraid of getting the virus.
What the heck is going on?!? Why can't we get our healthcare workers protected and tested? I've heard horror stories about healthcare bills of over $2,000 and patient pay bills of $1400.
Is that what is taking so long. The administration and healthcare providers are still trying to figure out whose going to pay for testing? It's a business decision? Someone help me out here!
Link to SkyNews article: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-south-korea-uses-drive-thru-stations-to-test-for-covid-19-11950955
36
@LivingWithInterest
I'm afraid right there with you!
1
Regarding that cruise ship in California, they should move it to a navy base, test and remove the passengers and crew safely into quarantine and the navy should bill the cruise line for the costs.
18
Why is it the cruise lines fault?
They had no idea and our sharp as a tack potus says not to worry.
1
"President Trump, speaking at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, said he would have preferred not to let the passengers disembark onto American soil."
Remember when Trump referred to immigrant as "infestation"? Well, Trump voters, apparently some of you are now part of an infestation he wants to keep out of America.
30
We still have no capacity to test patients in Maine.
29
The media needs to place the adjective “known” before the word cases. There are surely many more infected who are not showing symptoms or are only mildly ill, but infecting others. When one reads 300 cases, it sounds like no big deal.
22
Keeping on the ship is a human rights violation. Our country is intrinsically evil.
11
I agree on the second; not on the first. quarantines have been ordered throughout history.
But the NYT recently reported of a ship in Japan, where Quarantine made it worse. You can’t isolate in a cruise ship.
The estimates of the cumulative burden of seasonal influenza are subject to several limitations.
First, the cumulative rate of laboratory-confirmed influenza-associated hospitalizations reported during the season may be an under-estimate of the rate at the end of the season because of identification and reporting delays.
Second, rates of laboratory-confirmed influenza-associated hospitalizations were adjusted for the frequency of influenza testing and the sensitivity of influenza diagnostic assays. However, data on testing practices during the 2019-2020 season are not available in real-time. CDC used data on testing practices from the past influenza seasons as a proxy. Burden estimates will be updated at a later date when data on contemporary testing practices become available.
Third, estimates of influenza-associated illness and medical visits are based on data from prior seasons, which may not be accurate if the seriousness of illness or patterns of care-seeking have changed.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm
I know an older person with all the symptoms, prolonged contact with someone from Seattle area, and a recommendation from an infectious disease doctor that they be tested. Public Health representatives here in Indiana say no--they do not have enough test kits and the case does not meet the overly stringent CDC guidelines to warrant a test. They are self-quarantined but denied testing. Pence's statement is false and I would say politically motivated to keep the number of cases low.
The virus itself cares little whether we acknowledge it or not; however, we can now look at countries where testing is extensive, information is open and public, and the populace conforms to government public health suggestions. And, we can compare the rate of increase of cases in those countries with that of others where information is not gathered or hidden from and/or not shared with the public and the government gives contradictory policy recommendations or even outright denials.
The US leadership has placed us firmly in the latter group, despite having the scientific and public health capabilities to contain this.
31
The uninformed are busy with the hysterical comments--so some facts:
CDC estimates that influenza was associated with more than 35.5 million illnesses, more than 16.5 million medical visits, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths during the 2018–2019 influenza season.
The press has no data that this flu will have a higher mortality rate.
3
@Jonathan Everybody knows your statistics. This is another, new scourge that is hitting just when hospitals are full due to the flu cases that you cite. There is no more room at the inn; there aren't enough ICU units and respirators as it is. We have seen what happens when this disease enters a nursing home. This is 25x more deadly than flu. The point is to stop it before it becomes another endemic plague like the flu, killing thousands more per year. Unfortunately I think it's too late. This is a new grim reaper for the elderly.
2
Trump's statements are outrageous.
12
I’d wish I lived out in the woods right now.. without the daily need to commute to mid-town on the filthy NYC subway squeezed among thousands other commuters that some sneeze and cough with no basic manners.
13
Number of infections alarms but tells us next to nothing of our risk. Inform us of fatality rates in specific groups. Then you’ll be helping us assess and cope.
4
I wonder if the lack of testing kits for New York is another bit of Trump vindictiveness?
24
@Alexandra Hamilton
Attribute it to Mr. Trump’s visionary thinking.
1
Scenario 1: Nothing is ever Trump's fault, and we can only wait for this new Corona virus and caseload to overwhelm the inept Pence, who will become the fall guy. Trump will then pick a new VP and hope America's sick and dying don't hurt his ratings leading up to the November election.
Scenario 2: As fatalities mount across America, an increasingly erratic Trump will cancel the election in late October, saying he will "stick around for four more years." And the Supreme Court will back him up with the usual 5-4 vote. During the following four years, Trump will appoint two more SC justices.
12
On cruise ship, 19 of 21 positive. cases were crew.
4
@robert McConnell
Perhaps even more troubling given they were involved with two legs of the trip and have had contact with many passengers.
@ElleJ obviously then infection had little or no bearing on their ability to work.
The hype is not justified
@J Harrod
Well you are not going to get an argument from the deceased. One may be able to work but that is not the point. the point is that if you work while sick you will give it to others who may need hospitalisation or even die.
You said earlier that you practise medicine.
1
Why did China lockdown so many cities? They must have data to tell them how easy this Covid-19 can infect the others in the close distance. Like the lawyer in NYC infected his family, his friend's family, his friend who drives him to the hospital...
They go to lockdown in that kind of scale - what is the transmission/infection rate they saw? Can they share it with the rest of the world?
8
Wow, you’d think Japan’s experience with the Diamond Princess would have taught us that leaving everyone on the ship to get infected is a huge mistake. It’s like a giant Petri dish. Anyone who get sick gets off the boat and goes to the hospital anyway. In the long run it would be easier to deal with 50 sick people than 500. Plus those extra 450 people would surely rather stay well and not risk death. The authorities should get the passengers off of the ship and into a land-based quarantine immediately. Not enough facilities, you say? What kind of society keeps 2.3 million people in jail but can’t manage to provide decent and safe medical care facilities for a few thousand boat passengers?
34
Nineteen of the twenty-one infected aboard are crew. What are the odds that the crew spread the disease on the Diamond Princess? I feel terrible for the people stuck in their state rooms while the crew delivers the virus with every meal.
1
So very well said. bravo.
How about this. Everyone who is at risk of severe complications from the virus isolated at home for four weeks starting now. Everyone else should immediately get the virus and get over the virus. That's right, cough on everything and everyone. You have one week to infect everyone. In 14 days it will be over.
Then we clean everything. Once the community is immune, us high risk folks can come out of hiding and we can all move on. It one month of knowable, certainty of outcome, pandemic. The fragile will be completely isolated, and not die. Everyone else will now be immune. The stock market can cool it's heels, everyone can calm down. And I won't have to spend the next six months to a year hiding out in a bunker with my existing respiratory illness and fragile heart. This plan rest on our certainty that only people over fifty with preexisting health conditions are at any risk of dieing. That twenty percent of the population that might die of this virus can more easily be isolated than our current attempt to isolate everyone from the virus.
One last point. For this to work, at risk population need to be honest about their health. Those of us who aren't health must stay home thru the infection/healing process. No cheating! Are you a male over fifty with heart disease and currently have high blood pressure. You will have to admit this and stay in hiding. Can we do it? I'm willing to try.
6
@Patricia Tawney
Interesting, Patricia. I already started this eight days ago and I think my friends and extended family thought I was over-reacting by shopping for three weeks, by canceling all social engagements entailing crowds. What life has given me is the power of foresight, unlike the apparent limited foresight of the powers that be.
I am of the older populace and know the person who is most reliant in all this is me and my commonsense. I feel claustrophobic not participating in my usual activities, but the long walks through the woods are an antidote. I want to stay alive.
Good luck to you. Hunker down.
8
@HotGumption
I'm with you. Shocking how people refuse to look further ahead than the next 24 hours. I saw this scenario in mid-January when I first read medical articles about it in various journals. Good luck!
2
The Chinese approach worked. The most important thing it accomplished was to buy time. We can't prevent all infections, but we need to stagger them. Covid hits up to 20% hard. What we need to manage is how many are infected at the same time. 20% of 10,000 is 2,000, bad, but manageable. 20% of 100,000 is 20,000 which is unmanageable. We can't let our medical services be overwhelmed. Fine, if we want to add some American flavor, but it is time to take the Chinese approach.
19
Let’s keep this in perspective though: infection numbers and casualties are very small even in China measured on the population as a whole.
4
Indeed. Good news is not entire world population will die. Rest is bad news.
The downward response of financial markets is a reflection of how much Trump and Pence are not believed about the Coronavirus and the health system's ability to confront the growing problem. Wiping out the affordable health care act and constricting medicare is sure a dumb idea right now. No alleged Plot by the Democrats to make Trump look bad can possibly reach the pinnacle of his own obvious failures to protect the public health. Burisma and Hunter Biden are upcoming distraction planned by Republicans. But the body count continues growing.
8
The Republicans' ongoing and concerted efforts to deny health care to the poor has turned this nation into the perfect breeding ground for the real epidemic to come.
The sick and dying who cannot afford to see a doctor won't even be counted as the death toll rises.
14
Just off the phone with my 75 year old mother who just returned to PA from a few days in VA for a friend's funeral.
Uncharacteristically, as soon as she answered: "I can't talk."
She wouldn't talk because she said it would start a coughing fit. She has a runny nose sore throat and apparently terrible coughing fits that started today. She insists it is just allergies.
I asked if she'd taken her temperature. "No, I don't have a fever. It is just a runny nose. Allergies." she defiantly replied.
She is my father's care giver who is afflicted by ALS.
Obviously she is in complete denial of the possibility.
17
@dodolurker Runny nose is contraindication for COVID-19. See Mother is almost always right.
There is a sixth case in Illinois- a woman who was on an earlier leg of the grand princess. She was back on Feb 25 and worked until March 2. She works at a public school. Just reported in Chicago local media.
12
I thought today given what I have observed of the President’s priorities, the economy above public health, were he President on 9/11 the airspace would not have been closed down, the flights would not have been grounded and a greater tragedy would have unfolded.
14
@Ralphie No things would not be Hunky Dory if this had happened when Obama was president. But what would be different is we would have an intelligent response by a president who can communicate honestly and who cares about people instead of caring only about his own image or how markets will react.
29
Wondering if getting tests from South Korea is an option? If they are testing millions per day...Would they sell to us? Or has our relationship deteriorated too much? Perhaps they do not have enough tests?
10
Makes you want to dash off on a cruise for a late winter holiday, doesn’t it? NOT.
5
it's important to distinguish between detection rate and infection rate but i haven't seen any articles that do that. if you test people the detection rate will climb but the infection rate might be holding stead or even declining. we need information.
14
As a German currently residing in Thailand, it is quite striking how different the various regions react to the crisis: after the Chinese officials' disastrous mishandling in the first weeks, allowing the virus to turn into a pandemic, it was it's draconian measures which brought it under control outside Wuhan. While effectively sacrificing Wuhan is obviously very problematic and definitely not possible in democratic countries, with the forewarning the world has, such measures should not be necessary.
Other East Asian countries demonstrate how to react decisively and effectively without obvious breach of basic human rights - particularly Korea demonstrates how an advanced medical system can bring even a massive outbreak under control. Singapore, Hong Kong and Thailand showed how the mentioned forewarning can be used to avoid massive outbreaks despite being the countries with the highest numbers of Mainland Chinese visitors in the world.
Comparing the handling of the crisis in Europe, it is depressing how Italy, Germany, France, Switzerland etc, countries with huge ressources at hand, seem to be completely helpless, despite everything they could have learned from East Asia before the virus reached them in large numbers. And the situation seems to be similar in the US.
My impression is, officials just did not take the problem serious, assuming their health systems to be so superior to East Asia's that they just will deal with the problem in auto mode. Recipe for desaster!
30
If there are enough test kits to supply the Grace Princess, why aren't there enough to take care of the rest of the country? V.P. Pence says it may be "weeks" before there are enough test kits to take care of most (?) of the country.
And, why do we need to repeat the Japanese experiment in disease spread in a closed environment? It seems that getting the passengers ashore and into a controlled environment ought to be a priority.
13
Seriously? Why are there 4600 kits, but not millions? Are you even understanding what you are writing?
@Charles Murphy
Do they make you pay for the tests in America? Please please don't tell me yes.
Maybe you are OK with it since you pay for Presidents golf trips and goodness knows what else.
1
Trump doesn't seem to understand that we are near the point of no return. Soon ALL of our cities will be like Wuhan unless he imposes travel restrictions, bans large events and imposes mandatory quarantines. It is scary to give any president this power let alone Trump but I see no other option.
4
Over the course of a single day we hear that 200 cases becomes 300. What if the US actually had an adequate number of test kits?
Very possible that this ridiculously low figure is based on how few people can actually be tested.
17
unfortunately, it's probably the case. I've been working from home all week and I'm not leaving my house unless absolutely necessary. it's miserable, but I'm convinced it's here and many of us have it (I'm not sick btw). Im in my 30s, so I probably won't die, but I definitely 1. don't want to find out and 2. don't want to spread it
What we are seeing now is the tip of a huge iceberg.
The good news is the death rate is much lower than what appears, because only the most severe cases are detected.
Every year, only 10% get the flu, because of vaccines and herd immunity (immunity due to frequent low level exposure without getting actually sick).
The bad news is, neither vaccines nor herd immunity apply to the novel coronavirus, meaning that probably everyone is going to get it, except maybe a few hermits in Alaska. Thus, even if the death rate is the same as flu (0.05%), the total number of deaths could be 10x that of the flu.
2
I would bet there are thousands if not 10's of thousands of people in the US with this virus, and we just don't know it because the response and testing has been slow.
Trump's misinformation on the virus, and his incompetence in dealing with it will undoubtedly result in much wider spread of the virus than it would have been with accurate information and an appropriate response.
19
Testing for the virus is our only way to understand the spread. We know that it is very contagious. We know that in people who are over 60, 70, or 80 years old with chronic illnesses the mortality rate rises to over 10% to 15%. The press briefings from the task force on Covid19 begin with Mike Pence's praises to Trump. "Because of President Trump's direction to bring the whole of government" Today Trump was at the CDC going off script "I would have them stay on the ship. I want the numbers where they are. It's not fair we should have to have those numbers." It appears the President is trying to hide Covid19 numbers in this outbreak. While still at the CDC he called Governor Inslee of Washington State a snake. In the President's first press conference he called Corona virus a "Democrat hoax". Instead of ensuring America's preparedness during the early weeks of the outbreak in China, Trump attended 11 rally's! Leaders in science are alarmed that the CDC website has blocked the current number of cases. John's Hopkins is in coordination with each state and reporting the most accurate numbers. This outbreak is spreading in our communities and first responders are working overtime. We all need to pull together. Despite what Trump or his surrogates may say it is not "contained".
10
People over 80 with chronic illnesses did not even live that long just two decades ago. Now they bankrupt our health care. So get a grip. This is mother nature’s revenge. Not liking it. But the assumption we are owed a long life regardless of our habits is a bad one.
The US is like the kid at school who knew all semester that there would be a final exam, yet waited until the night before to open a book. And then failed the class.
32
The US is like the kid at school who knew all semester that there would be a final exam, yet waited until the night before to open a book. And then failed the class.
4
For many years I have observed people unable to compute a 15% tip in their head.
I have watched in amazement as people couldn't equate "1 in 4" with 25%.
Is it so shocking that the nation is so obviously unable to comprehend the significance of 3% mortality relative to 0.1% mortality of a regular virus?
Or grasp the significance of exponential growth of the infection if left unchecked?
Truly, we are paying a direct price for the failure of our education.
41
While I am alert to this unfolding story and have removed myself from unnecessary crowds such as gym, movies, theater and restaurants, I am in precautionary mode, not panic mode. The news coverage of stretchers and empty streets suggests immense disaster, but I'm not convinced that the universal terror is warranted.
The best information should be delivered calmly and dispassionately, rather than with gigantic headlines and scary music. Yes, some people are dying, but thousands have already died of "common" flu this year; look at how many people never get the vaccine. No panic displayed by them.
3
The Cornavirus is relatively new and I am surprised we already have any test kits and that millions more are on the way. I am thankful that in spite of criticism or racism, the administration put travel restrictions on certain parts of China buying time to prepare and to develope treatments and a vaccines.
If China not suppressed the emergence of the virus that would have bought even more time to prepare. Quit ironically the Dr. who was warned about disclosing the new and dangerous virus died from it proving his point.
This is in part the price of globalism and open borders. Let's continue to lower corporate taxes, and cut regulations so industries, such as drug and antibiotic production can return here. Corporate taxes are ultimately paid by individuals. They take money that could grow our 401ks, pay higher salaries, or lower the cost of products.
The corporate accounts that pay taxes ultimately get that tax money from the prices they charge for products. The same pot of money that pays federal taxes also pays worker wages, and produces shareholder earners that go to retirement and other investments.
2
Even when all the information was out, our governments did NOTHING to prepare.
1
@John but where are the same travel restrictions on Italy? Pharma companies make plenty of money in the US - far more than any where else. Trump would rather cut social security - which we gave all paid for, and any help such as SNAP benefits to poor people than cut funding to his useless wall.
1
Really? So South Korea is able to mobilize way faster than us to be prepared with tests, but it's understandable that we don't have any? wow.
3
I will continue to go to the gym, to the grocery store and restaurants and all the other places I go to every day. There are flus every year. I have heard nothing that says to me I have to pull back from my everyday life. I will continue to support the businesses and their employees that support me.
5
I have a hunch you’re right. Just a hunch...
@Mary just wash your hands regularly
I am experiencing the crisis personally. AfterI visited southern Italy in mid February I was taken off duty and sent home to self quarantine. I am at home, perfectly well, on self-quarantine for 14 days. I am feeling like a germaphobe now, fearful of catching an ordinary cold, which will make me "sick" and make returning to work much more complicated.
4
Today we had a video of President Trump saying he wanted the people on the ship to stay there, so the number of infected people wouldn't go up. He also said, "They're not our fault." He can't envision that this is nobody's fault. So far, it's a welcome relief to have Vice President Pence in charge. He's testing all the people on the ship, despite the President's objections; admitting we don't have enough tests; and he's working well with all the governors. I am waiting to see if he continues stand up for what is right as the numbers go up, and Trump can only view this in terms of his reelection.
15
I can't stand Pence either, especially as a member of the LGBT community, but I agree with this. As much as I hate him, I hope he continues to do what is right regardless of what this ridiculous president says.
Oh yeah, I sure feel comforted by anti-science guy Pence as the czar. Ha.
In many aspects, Donald Trump is very successful in business. As such, he should understand that one can not manage, what one will not, or can not measure. Testing of citizens infected with coronavirus is absolutely essential if there is any possibility of containing the pandemic. We have a problem, if the federal government under the leadership of the Trump administration continues to address this issue in the incompetent manner demonstrated thus far.
4
So in the interest of saving test kits because the US doesn’t have thousands to spare, they only tested a handful first, before deciding to test the rest. Leaving anxious passengers who have to wait yet longer... Given that this illness can be asymptomatic, it makes no sense to drag things out the moment it was known that a passenger had tested positive for the virus ... except for the shortage of kits, which should have been ordered the moment the outbreak was known to go beyond China, at the very least.
8
I understand a lot of people are afraid of the coronavirus so that universities have canceled classes and employers ordered employees to work at home. On the other hand the caucuses of Democratic Party have been held all over the country gathering thousands of supporters. It’s not easy for ordinary people to judge how serious this unseen disease is. Should people cancel all events and meetings which may lead to the spread of the disease? The excessive cancellations would also bring serious damage to society. The balance is really important in such a situation.
6
EXPERTS PLEASE RESPOND: Is there any reason why someone cannot test positive for flu AND Covid-19? If not, then why should the test only be given to symptomatic people who test negative for flu? How do the two diseases combine? Could a combination explain some of the variation in mortality rates?
5
A person can have two strains of flu at once, or flu and strep. It's uncommon, but there's no reason I can see as a biomedical researcher that a person couldn't have both.
7
@Julian Influenza and coronaviruses are completely different viruses (they are not different strains of the same virus). They just happen to exhibit similar symptoms in infected individuals. I imagine that if someone shows up to a medical facility with a respiratory infection, the medical providers will run a test that is specific for the flu and if the flu test comes up negative then they will run another test specific for Covid19.
4
@Julian it's entirely possible. Influenza along with Covid19 could easily go hand in hand since they are circulating at the same time. In a person who is already sick with one virus, they are more susceptible for another virus. If a study was done, it may discover that many of these severe cases of pneumonia progress rapidly not only because of an underlying chronic condition, but some perhaps because they already had the flu when Covid19 hit.
5
We just had a scare at work. Coworker had been in northern Italy three weeks ago and yesterday developed a cough and a fever but was still at work Sent to the emergency room but COVID19 test was not done. Instead, routine flu tests were done. If they are negative then a COVID19 test is done. When we asked why not just do the right test and take away any doubt, they said that the test availability is limited.
We should have had widely available test kits in every clinic and emergency room and doctors office. Otherwise we don’t really know what’s walking around out there.
52
"Everyone aboard a cruise ship off the California coast will be tested for the virus, after 21 of them tested positive, Vice President Mike Pence said.".
Then what?
The VEEP has spoken. Perhaps he fundamentally believes that the Veep will inherit the earth when the rest of us are dead.
11
Can we redivert that $6.1 billion Trump took from the military o build the wall for a real emergency?
36
@J Anders
better yet clawback the trillion dollars the GOP gifted corporations and .01 percent in 2017.
8
I remember back maybe 20 years ago and Trump was asked whether he was considering running for president. He said that he was thinking about it in a rather flippant manner. He smiled and sort of walked away as if he was tossing up to buy a real estate block or not. It struck me as odd at the time. It reminds me of his current flippancy about this dire situation.
If you still think that he cares about you or any other American for its own sake rather than how it looks for him, you are seriously deluded. Informed conservatives have left the GOP in droves. After Access Hollywood it should be a badge of honour to be a Never Trumper. He and his grovelling cohorts use the term as some kind of sinister moniker for people who can see through him. There should be T shirts saying Proud Never Trumper after this appalling debacle. It is humiliating for your great nation to have this narcissistic buffoon as leader
Read this recent quote from the dear leader:
"Well, we're going to look at the uninsured because they have a big problem. And we're going to look at the uninsured people that - you know, this came - it was a surprise to all of us. It just happened. It shows what can happen in life. But we're going to be looking at the uninsured and see if we can help them out."
Folks he is going to look at it. It reminiscent of the promised 10% tax cut before the 2018 midterms. It was a lie. When he says he will look at it, it means zero
42
@Bob Guthrie
Since you are in Australia, why are you upset about not getting a tax break from Trump?
Just out of curiosity, if your country's PM became President of the US, would we see a major change in environmental policy?
During a crisis, Trump plays golf... your PM flew to Hawaii for a vacation for cooler weather and cleaner air!
All country's have problems. Norway, Cuba, Russia, China, Venezuela, North Korea just to name a few. There is no such thing as a perfect government, country or political group.
Fault can be found with any country or person!
1
@The Critic
With respect that is a rather fatuous comment. It is not a matter of me being upset about a tax break. It was said to illustrate a point. Perhaps you missed it; the point being he lied about the tax break just prior to the midterms; therefore don't believe him when he says he will look at the problems that uninsured Americans will have. I am proposing that he won't look at it anymore than he gave the 10% tax cut. He flippantly promised it in order to influence the mid terms when there was no way he could deliver it; then of course the promise vanished.
That stuff about our PM going to Hawaii during apocalyptic bush fires seems to assume I approved of him doing so. Everybody here condemns him for it. He should not have gone and Trump should not be playing golf. What argument are you making?
You ask "Just out of curiosity, if your country's PM became President of the US, would we see a major change in environmental policy?"
Answer: no you would not, because he too is an ultra-conservative climate change denying ignoramus like Trump.
Whats that got to do with me? I am not responsible for what he does any more than you are responsible for what Donald has done.
Your last two paragraphs are facile and akin to saying all countries use water. Why you decided to nominate those ones is a mystery because Norway is nothing like the other five.
4
@The Critic ... true, but you seem to be having a pretty bad run lately. And you've long laid claim to "American Exceptionalism." Never heard of Aussie Exceptionalism.
What's going on?
What's really happening?
14
Why, trump is in charge. Just the usual lies and cluelessness.
8
@TBernard Where is our leadership????
@TBernard
Logical chickens are coming home to roost.
Thank goodness the US had a President, who is a self proclaimed stable genius, who also exhibits an abundance of competence, empathy, honesty, fairness and empathy.
21
stop I just actually laughed aloud from this. That was a great laugh needed after this week.
2
I find this advice to isolate yourself ridiculous. How many people have helpful relatives who can bring them hot food and laundry. Eventually you are going to have to venture out whilst infectious for some necessity.
11
@James ,
Not necessarily. I had pneumonia when this started. I was told by my doctor to isolate myself while on antibiotics and then an additional four to six weeks while my lungs heal.
That's over a month in isolation.
So far I have ordered groceries for the month of March and they were picked up and delivered. Then all my prescriptions were mailed to me. Also I drove my husband to pickup his truck. He drove himself by home and showered. I did not get out of my car. So far not so bad. But I need everyone who can get sick with out dieing to do so right away. That's like a vaccination. Right now safe infection may be our only way out of this mess.
most Americans have stoves and washing machines, so. . .
Mike Pence. What I don't understand is how Pence doesn't see that he's a stooge for Trump and will, within a couple of months, be thrown under the bus. He has no experience dealing with a possible pandemic; so far he's made mis-statement after mis-statement. He supported the efforts of Washington governorJay Inslee only to have Trump turn around and trash Inslee ...saying that he'd told Pence not to praise Inslee because Inslee "is a snake". Really? Pence doesn't see what's going on here?
26
@alabreabreal
I have never seen an instance of Trump handing the microphone to anyone else who mike take an iota of credit when things are going well.
If The Donald is delegating, you can be sure it's to his favorite fall guy of the moment.
4
@alabreabreal It's not like Pence has a choice.
2
Here's the real bottom line. Regular flu has a 2% mortality rate, whereas this new Covid-19 has a 4% death rate. So it's twice as evil as a regular flue. If you catch a regular flu but are healthy otherwise your chances of living are 98%.If you catch this new flu, your chances of living are 96%. Obviously no one wants it to spread, but many are weaponizing it against Trump. Oh, he didn't order 330 million test kits, one for each of us including illegals. What an evil man he is.
1
@Jgarbuz No, regular flu has .1% mortality rate. This one is 2% which is 20% more than regular flu.
18
@Tran Trong
WHO yesterday said the COVID-19 mortality rate is 3.4%. So 3400% more deadly than the flu (at 0.1%).
18
@Jgarbuz Flu is .1%. Covid19 is 2-3% globally. When all the cases are known, the mortality may be a little lower, but about 20x the mortality of flu. BUT, if you are older and if you have respiratory issues like COPD, or CHF, or cancer or diabetes, the mortality goes as high as 10-15%!
7
I was astonished (yet again) by Trump: "President Trump, speaking at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, said he would have preferred not to let the passengers disembark onto American soil. “I don’t need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn’t our fault,” he said."
That's what this has been from the start for him and his administration. It's all statistics (number of confirmed cases, % of fatalities, etc.) in an attempt to show everyone what a "great" job he is doing and it isn't his fault. The "..I don't need.." says it all. What about the comfort and quality of care on our soil compared to a petri dish cruise ship.
Disgusting!
49
Wonder how many of the passengers will vote for him in November.
6
yup even fake data. so funny the facist that flaunts about fake news is projecting everything off himself. what a joke
I been seeing this of the virus since the first day, when is was only 1 person in Wuhan. The good thing I got prepared bought my masks, food supplies and medication. Now to keep seeing the news
4
If one of my relatives were to die from a respiratory-related illness or condition, I would insist on blood samples to be tested later when there are sufficient tests.
7
What about patients who have to undergo procedures that are unrelated to this virus? The hospital where my family member is scheduled for a procedure next month just sent into self-isolation a few dozen nurses who were exposed to a coronavirus patient while unprotected.
It’s absolutely inexcusable! Why are there no protocols?
Having an invasive procedure is worrisome enough without the added stress of nursing staff potentially spreading the coronavirus to vulnerable patients.
26
Exactly. I’m supposed to have dental surgery. Don’t feel comfortable doing that in the midst of a pandemic.
2
If there are three thousand people stranded on this poor ship off the CA coast, why were only 46, repeat 46, of the passengers tested? Japan had disastrous results with the same situation a month ago. There certainly was the knowledge this most likely could happen here on a cruise ship. Instead, pence spends the first ten minutes praising the coast guard for flying tests to the ship. With all due respect to our great Coast Guard, that’s their job. What about the other 2950 stranded crew members and passengers? This is an outrage. They still don’t have a place to quarantine and test these stranded people.
Meanwhile, trump entertains The Brazilian Beast, Juan Bolsanaro at Mar-a-Lago. I bet they had a test for him waiting.
32
Over 700 got infected on the other cruise. This is madness that this is happening again and our Prez doesn’t want them here because it messes up his ratings.
5
They limited the initial testing to (1) those recently complaining of flu-like symptoms and (2) passengers on this cruise who had also been on the previous cruise (several of whose passengers have tested positive since disembarking and at least one of whom died).
1
@Debra
He’s not my prez, no offense meant, but it’s far more than just ratings. He is the same narcissistic, non empathetic monster he has always been; the more power, the worse his pathology. Hope you stay virus free.
Profit is the prime motivation in the US for confronting the Covid-19 outbreak.
From Mr Trump cheer leading big pharmaceutical companies getting products to market, to streetwise entrepreneurs opening sidewalk popup disinfectant shops.
What will cost US citizens most?
The virus itself?
Mr Trump, our businessman-in-chief?
Sidewalk sale markup....at 500% or more above retail?
10
@Bill
This might have something to do with it:
Alex Michael Azar II is an American attorney, politician, pharmaceutical lobbyist, and former drug company executive who serves as the United States Secretary of Health and Human Services,
6
2 preliminary cases confirmed by State lab in South Carolina. CDC confirming:
https://www.wltx.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/possible-coronavirus-cases-south-carolina/101-9e4dbb27-660e-495b-8a66-2720638b4b1b
4
It’s absolutely insane that people who are sick are trying to do the right thing, voluntarily, and are being turned away from testing. The story of the man coming back from Japan to Brooklyn is unbelievable.
Is anyone in charge here?! Containment has to be impossible at this point in NYC.
23
The only possible positive outcome of this pandemic is that it puts a glaring spotlight it puts on Trump’s many failures. Will some of his supporters finally come to recognize his absolute failure of leadership in the face of a genuine crisis. The lack of preparation of this administration has already caused increased exposure for all, without adequate test kits for confirmation of infection and isolation and treatment of patients. Once again, relying on his gut rather than accepting empirically-validated science, Trump flails around spewing misinformation and dangerous pronouncements. His incompetence is exacerbating this crisis. Is this FINALLY the tipping point for this ill-informed fraud? I know, how many times have we said already this, and yet he persists. How can this circus possibly go on unrecognized?
30
I fear his followers won’t care...and may not even be aware.
2
it is airborne!
from John Hopkins Medical
"A possible difference: COVID-19 might be spread through the airborne route (see details below under Differences).
"While both the flu and COVID-19 may be transmitted in similar ways (see the Similarities section above), there is also a possible difference: COVID-19 might be spread through the airborne route, meaning that tiny droplets remaining in the air could cause disease in others even after the ill person is no longer near."
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu
16
I’ve lost count of the times since Trump was inaugurated where I have read a headline or news story and thought to myself, “Surely, this is news about a third world country,” or “Surely, this is news about a dictatorship,” only to remember this is news about my country.
Add “attempting to cover up an outbreak like China did” to the list.
24
@S + "Japan, Italy, Germany and UK did"
Of course President Trump will continue to believe it’s some kind of political plot to stop him being re-elected. When can we get some grownups back in the White House?
19
Had one. Name of Bloomberg. But he’s not here anymore.
1
Next January if people vote for Biden.
1
January. Biden.
1
Pence at the podium and hour or so ago (Friday/1730) indicated that some 50 or so were tested on the cruise ship with nearly one half (1/2) testing positive.
Pence alluded to the small number of being tested. He gave the false impression, the total ship was tested..it was not..just 50 or so with half testing positive. The ship has a capacity of several thousand passenger..If the ration holds to the initial test, the more than 1000 people would test positive for the virus...perhaps many more when considering half of the infections were crew..no doubt those who interacted with the passengers.
Bottom line: The cruise ship is highly infectious with perhaps as many of one half of all passengers infected..as total passengers as 3500 according to the NYTimes reviewed a moment ago.
Pence perhaps wanted to public not to understand the depth of the infection on the cruise ship, as he could of been much more forthcoming.
Like just about all in the Trump inner circle..they rarely tell the truth and march to the deceptive and false assertions of their leader.
18
CDC says that elderly and at-risk folks should not visit Japan, where 8 have died in the entire country. But go ahead and visit the Seattle metro area, where 14 have died.
20
The administration’s handling of coronavirus has so far been abysmal. Where are the “one million” test kits that Pence said would be available this week? California, with 60 confirmed coronavirus cases only has a total of 7,000 kits. We are two months into this, and you think the administration would’ve been more ready. You can’t stop what you don’t know exists.
21
@RSSF ,
Let's get real about testing. If every single test kit we have were sent just to Washington state, with a population of 8 million, we would be short on testing. We need to test about 25% of the Washington state population. That is 2 million kits. How many do we have? Let's admit it, testing isn't going to happen sufficient to be useful at this point.
We have one person with the virus here and already no local grocery delivery services can guarantee items will be in stock. There’s been a run on everything basic. Many don’t want to go out.
I don’t know if people are over reacting or not . But I firmly believe this shows the mistrust we have for our government, Trump especially. Not enough tests. His constant denials about how serious this is, contrary to the World Health Organization briefings. . Meanwhile the “ updated” CDC figures are never accurate ( they’re always lower than what is reported here and elsewhere).
I hope this is Trumps undoing. He has blundered along far too long.
35
@Jace It would be ironic if noted germaphobe Trump saw his regime's downfall due to ........ a germ.
1
I saw on MSNBC that the reason we have tested so few people in contrast to other countries is because they used kits from the World Health Organization. We rejected their tests and began to make our own. The first significant batch turned out to be faulty. Now they have to make more. Ain’t isolationism great!
39
@Kb , well, you know, America first. Or maybe last. Maybe Trump’s new slogan will be America alone. Who needs ‘em? When the shelves are empty, we’ll know.
5
@Kb
But I'm sure our kits will be "exceptional". When we finally make some.
2
America First in infections? Hope not. We need tests and those people need to be freed from that cruise ship to be quarantined on America soil.
I traveled to Seattle, WA twice beginning 3 weeks ago. Then to Vancouver, BC and a week later to northern California. A week an a half after my first Seattle stop, I developed a cough and began to feel as though I had a cold. By last weekend (just over 2 weeks after Seattle), I felt like I had the flu. I called my doctor's office on Monday, was told there were no appointments and was sent to the local hospital's lab for a flu test and chest x-ray.
The flu test was negative, but on Tuesday they entered a diagnosis of "acute bronchitis" in my chart. I called back and asked about a coronavirus test, but they said I "didn't meet the criteria" and to call back next week if I was still sick. I just called again because I'm still sick and was told that they "just got the tests in and haven't been trained on them yet", so the only way to get one is to be hospitalized.
If I don't meet the criteria, folks, NOBODY is being tested. I have self-isolated the last half of this week, but I was around thousands of people in the two weeks prior. I hope you weren't one of them....
99
@J Anders Thanks for sharing. I have read numerous reports describing experiences similar to yours. The real number should 10x to 100x of what is reported now.
7
@J Anders
It was good of you to post. It's important for us to know from first hand experiences what is really going on out there as it prompts us to be extra vigilant during this crisis. Your experience is discouraging and upsetting; I hope you'll feel well soon and it is not the virus.
1
They should cancel jury duty for a few weeks in areas with cases. Having hundreds of people congregate in close quarters for an extended period of time does not seem wise.
30
If I am reading what DJT just said correctly he didn't want the mostly American passengers on that cruise ship to be allowed on American soil as it wasn't fair that the number of cases counted for the US might double when they come off the ship! So he wanted them to remain on the ship so all could become infected (and receive no substantial medical care if needed) to avoid increasing numbers? It boggles the mind.
64
@Randall Roark
It would if it was any other president.
What trump is saying about Covid19 is exactly what we could have predicted
Lies and nonsense.
Nothing more.
4
@Randall Roark
... and the cruise ship is owned by an Anglo-American company!
3
All he cares about is ratings so that “Trump,” as he refers to himself in the third person, “wins.” Never mind the rest of us.
3
I keep seeing Trump saying that people should not get hysterical (affected by uncontrolled extreme emotion). At this point I haven't seen anyone who is running around "extremely emotional". Then I hear people talking about Trump being calm... it is actually indifference.
--The truth is, we have a virus that is a whisper away from being rated as a pandemic-an epidemic occurring on a scale which crosses international boundaries, usually affecting a large number of people.
--Now like all great dangers, it would be natural for people to be aware of such a problem. It would be natural to want to evaluate the problem and figure out how to best deal with the threat... to survive it. People will naturally look at history to learn how to deal with what is happening now and in this case, people have a period of history to learn from... the Spanish Flu.
--This problem, being global, naturally needs a government's authority and resources to deal with it. It should be brought to light that the government for varying reasons like the Spanish flu was poorly dealt with because the government wanted to hide the effects during war while Trump's government doesn't want the people to know the effects of this virus because they don't want it to effect the "economy" because Trump is hanging his hat on it in an attempt to be reelected... that is a war against the American people by as always, Trump is lying to the American people/
14
@Pray for Help INDIFFERENCE is exactly the right word. Even if his entire family died, he would just go play golf.
1
I live in Kyoto, Japan so was alarmed when first seeing an NHK News report this past week that a part time worker at a local McDonald's had been confirmed positive after having worked several shifts serving food to customers. No mention yet in the Western press??
16
Without millions of test kits available and deployed , it looks like all people everywhere should self isolate. Almost a Hobson’s choice.
If we all hunker down, the economy znd it’s transport systems come to a halt. No good options here. Hope I’m wrong here but...
125
@RjW
This is actually what I’m doing. Since there’s no testing, I am going out only when absolutely necessary. I live alone, so that helps. But I definitely don’t want to catch it and then accidentally give it to my parents who are in their 70s or anyone else who is immune-compromised.
20
@RjW
No. Self isolation is for the infected.
We should be practicing social distancing. The goal is not to stop the coronavirus - we can't do that, the goal is to have the virus slowly move across the community, step by step, rather than like a wildfire. The virus kills by giving people severe lung problems. Hospitals can nurse people through that with specialist equipment and we keep fatalities low.
But if the virus hits everyone at once, the hospitals can't do that.
Self isolate and stay home if infected, practice social distancing (that is, don't do more than is necessary and prudent), keep going to work and following recommendations of your workplace and its coronavirus plan.
That way the economy still runs and we make the pandemic manageable without shooting ourselves in the foot.
14
The problem is there’s at least a 14-day period during which an infected might not show ANY symptoms. So there might be plenty of ‘healthy’ people going about their lives but are in fact infecting more and more people. The best way is to self isolate and if you need to go out, wear a mask to protect yourself.
11
Excellent article on the global connectedness we find ourselves as this virus reaches pandemic thresholds. It's laughable that most countries listed have aggressive nationalism fears all ready built-in. Apparently, you cannot run nor hide from the other, after all.
7
Coronavirus or not, I've always thought you have to be crazy to go on a cruise, where you are essentially in a Petrie Dish of germs, bacterial, viral, and fecal material, even under the best of conditions. I am sorry for the people who work for and are shareholders of Norwegian, Carnival, and Princess, but these across ocean jaunts need to be banned at least until a vaccine is found.
11
Why should anyone believe that there are 300 cases in the U.S. when there has been so little testing? That number could easily be 3,000 or 30,000 or more.
50
@lydgate I don't believe that number, at all. Check out the new article on the Atlantic about how we are botching the testing. Once I saw the CDC pull the number of confirmed cased a couple of days ago I knew something was up.
Pure speculation on my part but I think this virus started spreading weeks ago. Now we are stuck with a President who is putting his re-elections chances (Stock market numbers/economy) ahead of the people by trying to manipulate the data of cases. When Kudlow came out and said this was "almost air tight" on the same day someone from the CDC said that the virus would spread across America I knew they were up to something.
6
Lots of good comments here, but perhaps one more thought. The coronavirus along with other viruses is a long term problem and if it levels off during the spring and fades in the summer it does not necessarily mean that it is gone. Viruses can flare up in one season and come back with redoubled fury in the next flu season or mutate into something else. The short term should not be our only perspective, but the long term must be of equal importance.
29
@just Robert
Good point! The 1918 Spanish flu came in Spring and killed the old and very young but mutated and returned in the Fall to kill young healthy people.
21
Tests are really a way of measurement and management of the herd, not individual cases. Even if untested, one is treated with support for the symptoms, not the name of the thing causing the symptoms.
I suppose it can help treatment to know the possible outcome of a given diagnosis. But at this stage, it's impossible to know who gets better and who dies with any certainty. It's not like someone should go to the hospital because they have respiratory symptoms.
1
@larkspur
"Management of the herd" is another way of saying containing the outbreak within the population. This seems like an important goal to me.
6
@larkspur , we need to have accurate diagnoses to gain information on the virus’ spread, presence in the community, mortality, etc. in order to determine how to respond.
9
It really looks like we are beyond that. This disease is beyond contanmination. The health and social workers should start indentifing the high risk group (elder and people with underlying health issues) in every city and check on them daily!.
This will spread because its highly contagious and people do not want to be inconvenienced. If you took just one of those things out of the equation our collective exposure drops. Since we can't affect the properties of the virus, are we willing to be inconvenienced for a while to help stop the spread of this?
30
Spread can’t be stopped. Time will show it’s not more deadly than the flu.
Panic response is proof positive that this country is mentally ill.
1
@ladyluck
"people don't want to be inconvenienced" Bingo!
The spread can be controlled, as China did with its 1.4 billion population. It’s just the US is unlikely to be able to implement the same measures
when asked if he was concerned about the risk of more transmission from sick to well people on the Grand Princess ship, djt said "it doesnt bother me at all". Because what is important is to keep the numbers low not the health of the populace. Remind me never to go the USA ever again until he is gone.
65
@Cara
Trump said at his first coronavirus news conference last Saturday that his solution to possible infection was:
"If anybody sneezes, I'm out of there fast!"
Donald J. Trump
Brave, brave leader. I feel so reassured.
Hardly an auspicious display by Team Trump when they put on this performance, all the while blaming it on the Democrats as the example of over-spending and exaggeration.
A simple admission that Trump was wrong with his assessment and apology for his misses would be a measure of true leadership maturity......was that a pig I saw just flying by?
23
I took my first cruise about 25 years ago and one was enough. I know people love them but it was not my cup of tea. There were too many people and the ship was so large. There was a lot of food at all hours but quantity does not always mean quality. After the coronavirus outbreak, I would not ever get back on a large ship again. I do feel sorry for the cruise lines because I think they will lose a lot of money. People will think twice about going on a cruise for a long time to come.
I did go on a Christmas markets river cruise about 10 years ago and loved it. There were a fraction of the people on board that you found on a humongous cruise ship. The food was delicious and the other travelers were lovely. I had a great time and would not hesitate going again once this coronavirus virus is behind us. Hopefully this virus will not last too long so people can get back to their everyday normal lives and not be on pins and needles.
9
If this were a new flu that wasn’t covered by any flu shot, with the same numbers, I think we’d be very concerned and taking action, but not freaking out like this. It’s just we think we know the flu. Not sure about that :o) But what I’m really thinking is that the world generally seems very worried, and vulnerable to panic. I think there’s a tipping point in world population and density where we all become neurotic. It’s almost like we want something to happen.
11
@
Imagine if the nightly news announced each day's fatalities during flu season. There are tens of thousands of deaths from flu every year in the U.S. But no one talks about that. People still travel on airplanes. They still go to work. They still act as if everything is business as usual. Where is the panic?
I am not downplaying the Coronavirus threat. No one knows how bad it will get and it's genuinely scary. We all need to be cautious (I just washed my hands for the 10th time today, and I'm rapidly running out of hand sanitizer). We have to take this seriously.
But I can't help wonder if we are overreacting just a bit. I just heard that some shelves at a local Trader Joe's are empty, since people are stockpiling pasta and canned foods, in preparation for what? The Apocalypse?
I don't get it.
8
@boopboopadoop If people are stockpiling non-perishable food, it's in preparation for possible self-quarantine or simply to decrease going out for supplies. It's not silly at all, although it might be overrated as a feeling that one is doing something concrete about the situation.
1
But the worst President in American history stated today that he has a “natural ability” to understand the Coronavirus pandemic? I pray for everyone on this planet to survive this grave threat!!!
36
@Mark
Somehow I just don't believe the answer to all this lies somewhere in Trump's gut.
3
@Mark , yes, I think we know the one you mean.
@Mark
It's difficult to pick one of his most idiotic utterances about the epidemic, but that's in the running.
He does have a natural ability to tie my guts in knots when I hear him speak, which is probably lowering my defenses against all infection sources. If only we could quarantine the President .... Let him go to Mar a Lago, and close it down.
1
There is a very high probability that Americans, particularly our vulnerable senior citizens, are in harms way of being infected by the Coronavirus and some unfortunately are even dying, and all I really heard from President Donald J. Trump during his CDC briefing, is him constantly boasting on how great he believes he really is.
From my vantage point he is failing miserably and again living in his own self made distorted reality. Good grief!
33
What is striking is the dog that isn’t barking.
The media, Times included isn’t asking a simple question: Why is every American death ( save one) associated with this virus happening in Washington State? Apparently 13 total.
This has nothing to do with testing, Trump or even funding.
It has everything to do with the woke policies of the Seattle City Council in regards to 12,000 homeless in Seattle violating every norm regarding sanitation and common sense.
That council has created a Public Health catastrophe in the name of political correctness.
6
@J Harrod
All of the cases that have been found are near major medical centers.
Which are the only places actually testing right now. Blue cities aren't more infected because of their policies - they are more efficient in getting people lab results.
39
I am pretty sure that the people dying except one, live in an elder care facility, not homeless camps. I do agree, however, that Washington State and California homelessness make mockery out of West Coast progressive values.
10
@Anthony Cheeseboro the poor hygiene and health practices of 12,000 people ignoring basic rules of sanitation affect the public health well being of everybody else in the community. You don’t need an M.P.H. To understand that.
2
Trump doesn't want to know how many people are infected with the coronavirus.
Trump doesn't want America to know how many Americans are infected with the coronavirus.
That's why there is a shortage of tests available.
Hey Mike Bloomberg and Tom Steyer.
How about diverting some of the millions you were going to spend on defeating Trump to purchasing and donating coronavirus testing kits. It would be a good deed and it might actually help expose Trump's incompetence in dealing with the coronavirus pandemic.
America needs to know immediately how widespread the coronavirus is. Testing kits are the only way to find out.
America needs those testing kits.
Now.
39
Reliable kits are not available yet. You can be sure that many companies are working as fast as possible to bring some to the market.
3
@Rita Tamerius
From what I am reading here, the WHO has testing kits which other countries use but which the Trump admin. refused to use, deciding to make their own.
@Kate Do you think Trump refused to use those WHO testing kits as a stalling tactic? Why couldn't Tom Steyer or Mike Bloomberg go buy a bunch of those kits then donate them for use here in the U.S.?
Meanwhile, Trump is considering ways to bail out the airlines and his own resorts due to a slump in business. . .
34
Confirmed cases? How about the “X” unconfirmed due to the anemic response by the grifters and sycophants in the administration?
It was never “if”, but “when” the total lack of leadership, accountability and integrity was going to catch up with this bunch.
It will get much worse before it gets better, and we will all suffer for it.
20
Just like the cruise ship a few weeks ago in Japan. It is essentially a hermetically sealed tube complete with a uncontrolled covid-19 dispersion system. Appallingly unconscionable keeping healthy people in an environment where catching the illness is almost a certainty.
296
Insanity that they would approach the situation in the EXACT same way. Of course with Pence in charge expect no less.
49
@HANK
During the 1918 H1N1 flu pandemic, people were locked in their houses when one occupant got sick. Often it spread to those who were originally healthy and could have escaped. The idea was they were carriers whether sick or not at the time of their release.
In a public health emergency, individual rights are forfeit to the protection of the herd.
In 2020, some were released from the cruise ship quarantined in Yokohama JP because they did not test positive at the time. They got sick on the plane ride back to the US.
I learned the little jets of conditioned air on the plane are filtered and condensed from intake from the outside, not recirculated. So, maybe flying isn't half as bad as cruising.
4
@HANK
They should either turn off the ventilation or use alcohol instead of water for the humidification component of the HVAC system.
Better yet, carefully bring everyone off the boat to individual tents.
Seeing as were incapable of doing anything in a proactive or timely manner....never mind.
7
I very much enjoyed Herr Trump's remarks concerning his hunch that the actual mortality rate for a virus we are unprepared and unable to test for is not 3.9% but well under 1.0% for all infected cases.
How reassuring to hear from the CIC and POTUS that the civilian/military death toll from this "biological attack" will ONLY be in the range of 780,000 deaths if 0.04 is the case mortality rate or perhaps 1,950,000 deaths if the case mortality rate is 0.01 assuming a conservative 60% infection rate for 325 million Americans.
Had POTUS actually prepared the US to test for COVID 19 he might be able to prove that his hunches are correct, but POTUS burned the clock since DEC 19 and accordingly the US critically lacks test kits for COVID 19 and accordingly deaths from COVID 19 may not be accurately tracked and reported.
Within Wuhan and environs, the reported case mortality rate has been reported as 3.4 and 3.9 percent, which if accurate, would convert to between 6,630,000 million and 7,605,000 deaths from 200,000,000 million infections (assuming an infection rate of just 60% among 324,000,000 Americans.
And yet our POTUS and CIC verbalizes how 780,000 or 1,950,000 deaths would not be so bad?
There really is nothing like a self-inflicted political decapitation strike before a biological attack on the US Homeland. I pray that America will take heed of Trump's dereliction of duty to defend and protect the US Homeland.
12
I do not support Trump but don’t you think the mortality rate must be lower since we can’t actually know how many people have the virus?
4
@Nik
The same logic goes for assuming the mortality rate is higher, right?
4
@Nik "don’t you think the mortality rate must be lower since we can’t actually know how many people have the virus"
Since we can't actually know the data on how many people have the virus as you stated, how can you conclude that mortality rate must be lower?
If we want to estimate the number of unknowns that have the virus, we can model that based on known data from China or Korea or other countries that had the virus history and adjust that for US population. Another approximation could be based on annual Flu infected US population, adjust those numbers based on the severity and the impact of Corona virus and extrapolate for those factors. Another factor to add to the mix is the unavailability of vaccine for Corona Virus. In either of these approaches, based on the current available data, it seems the mortality rate is higher for Corona virus compared to flu.
3
What is Trump's administration doing to get more testing kits out faster? Surely the Great Businessman and his Czar could do better than this!
7
Has Trump had to cancel his “rallies” yet? That’s the moment I’m waiting for. He says “go to work” if you feel sick. Ok. Let’s see how that turns out with his over-50s crowds.
24
I'm waiting to see the lines at the hand sanitizer stations at the next Trump rally.
1
@Matt , as the virus spreads, I’m curious as to how many fans will show if he doesn’t cancel.
3
It is very beautiful to behold.
The Reverend Mike Pence in front of TV cameras fielding questions as to why the number of infected cases is going up, the lack of test kits, the disconnect between Trump’s “we’ll have a vaccine in 3 weeks at the latest” versus the CDC’s “it will take about a year for a vaccine, and that’s a very positive projection.”
Pence is wincing in every answer, basically mouthing to his god to deliver him from this evil.
So very beautiful to behold.
Pence will not be surviving this COVID-19 tragedy.
And the best part?
He cannot answer back to Trump for setting him up for a very spectacular failure.
Beautiful!
28
@Opinioned!
Does anyone know if coronavirus conversion therapy actually works?
36
@Opinioned!
I have a “hunch” that Pence will be replaced by Nikki Haley as VP.
9
Bringing people on a ship to the US to be tested? Why can’t they collect the kits on the ship, after the test administered, and have the kits sent in to the US?
How have people aboard ships been tested before?
Ask Mike Pence!
6
320 million people in the U.S and only 1,000,000 test kits will be available by next week. This is shameful. What gives?
13
The only hope now is to take the drastic measures that China took. But that won't happen. Well, I'm very worried about my parent's their 80s, and my wife, a former smoker who has lung issues. God help us all.
19
Still waiting: Who in the Trump administration made the decision to refuse the WHO Corona virus test used by the rest of the world? And who refused again when it became clear that the CDC test was seriously flawed?
Many people will become ill and perhaps die from the decision made by that person.
24
The Princess Complex Strikes Again. Currently, what is happening is pure Western arrogance, when we saw a viral outbreak we started pointing fingers at what people ate, how people ran their government, whether we could "trust their numbers", etc. instead of preparing.
Even in this article, the Chinese anti-virus approach to quarantine was called "draconian", while the Russian, called "precautionary" and "successful". Italy's incompetent and fatal error of releasing a positive patient into the public is not discussed. The US's "quarantine" that allows positive patients to go out in public is not questioned, labeled, or even mentioned.
This article never even mentions the lies told by our own government, the silencing of scientists, the trivialization of the virus' impact, the misuse of statistics in reporting, the fact that Iranians are dying in part due to a lack of medicine prohibited by increased sanctions, etc.
In a nation that focuses more on viral videos than how to stop viral infections, there is no battle to end this coronavirus in the USA - perhaps the Airline lobby's political contributions afford them the right to sway proper health guidance. The only concern is this fetish of proving we are true individuals who cannot be chained, but in these situations, only two things matter, life and death, who is keeping people alive and who isn't. Let's focus on the former.
22
100,000 cases of a disease that's harder to catch and less deadly than the flu in a global population of 7.85 billion people and it seems like the world is coming to an end. Thank you hyperventilating 24-hour media for the panic. My stock portfolio is ever so grateful.
3
@Paul Presnail
An 0.1% fatality rate (which is the seasonal flu's) vs. 3.4% fatality for COVID-19 is a HUGE difference.
As in 3400% different.
24
I am not sure where you got that info from but it's seriously flawed. it has a higher mortality rate than the flu, even by conservative estimates its ten to 34 times more deadly. Also, while someone with the flu will on average infect another person that rate is about 2.2 for the corona virus.
7
@saki None of this has been confirmed or denied as of now since we still do not know how it spreads and how many people have been infected, had recovered on their own, are currently infected but do not show any signs. If you think that the transmission rate is 2.2 instead of 1 then the number of unobserved cases is twice as large as for the flu, which reduces the mortality rate.
1
Not surprisingly the administration manages the news of this, so that it didn’t come out till way after the markets closed. When yesterday we’d been told they would know the results “in the morning.”
Par for the course.
9
If you go on Fox News, on line or TV, information about the virus is literally buried and a mere footnote. Shame on them for not doing the right thing and giving their viewers up to date information. Fox News aka Trump news is nothing more than a state run media outlet.
15
Simple. The US (the Wall) and Europe ($6 Billion aid package to Turkey) are more interested developing intricate plans to keep out non-white people than people who carry highly infectious viruses.
4
21 tested positive ... OUT OF 46 people tested.
That is over 45%.
The headline should be:
Almost One-Half of People Tested on Cruise Ship Is Positive for COVID-19
28
I just watched the Coronavirus Task Force news conference. Talk about non-transparency. First of all, why did they only test 46 people on the cruise ship docked off San Francisco? My guess is once they found out that 21 out of 46 tested positive, they stopped testing because that’s a 46% positive rate and with 3,500 people on the ship that would equate to 1,610 people. Those numbers are too high for Trump’s PR campaign, his reelection, and the stock market. And we all know those are the only three things that matter to him. Jim Acosta asked twice if any American went to his doctor over the weekend and wanted to get the test done, would they be able to get it done? They evaded his question. Then Pence ended the news conference after 30 minutes or so and yet reporters still had a lot of questions. I guess there are more important things taking place than getting the information out to the public. And how many times do we have to listen to people on the task force thank Trump for his incredible leadership on this matter? Yet, according to FOX, Trump is a strong leader on the coronavirus situation, even though he has told many lies about what’s really going on and delayed ramping up the manufacturing of test kits (because he doesn’t want high positive test results?). It is hard for me to believe how many people in our country are drinking the Kool-Aid.
40
I just saw a video of a Trump supporter who denies the existence of COVID-19 because it is a "Democratic hoax". Words have consequences that can be magnified 1000 fold when the lies come from the President. If his response to a true global health emergency doesn't awaken the country to the menace he is to all we value, we are in even worse trouble than I could have imagined not long ago.
36
What is the federal government doing to stop the spread of this virus? Trump downplays the dangers and tells us it’s under control when it clearly isn’t. We’re going to see the number of cases double daily as they have in Europe and Iran and Trump will not come out and advise Americans on best practices for stopping its spread. It will be local governments, schools, community-minded individuals, and ethically run news organizations who will stop the spread if anyone does. Elections matter!
10
It's widespread. Containment is over.
You will probably get infected.
Take solace in the fact that it will be mild for most.
Many more will die.
It's almost as if we don't have any leadership, international standing, ability to coordinate, scientific trust, or community empathy.
Oh, wait.
26
@glorynine
What is interesting is that outside of Washington State only one person has died.
That is significant- and should raise questions about the pre-existing state of public health in Washington.
@J Harrod Yeah it's because it hit a nursing home. It's just getting started.
6
Until we test every corpse in the country that died from pneumonia over the last 6 weeks, we do not know how many have died of COVID-19.
What Washington State really shows us is that when asymptomatic viral shedding occurs, people going to work in or visiting family and friends in senior care facilities are bringing a deadly illness to the most vulnerable without even realizing what they are doing.
3
Just a note to everyone:
CDC is not responsible for certifying labs to conduct coronavirus tests. That is the FDA's job.
Neither of which is able to do its job in this "smaller government utopia" we've gotten ourselves into.
26
@J Anders
Be grateful that the FDA still has this responsibility.
It was only by standing up to a lot of pressure from a carefully cultivated political elite that the FDA were able to uncover the Theranos diagnostic scam. Plus, some principled medics from the US military.
3
We’ve all known for weeks that the virus is spreading undetected yet testing was still restricted. It’s unacceptable for a nation with this amount of resources to be unable to provide enough tests for anyone who requests one and disrespectful to vulnerable populations. The CDC, despite the funding cut, should have been able to get this worked out. I certainly hope there’s no political manipulation (i.e. bungle the testing and blame Trump) going on when lives are at risk.
13
@MCMOM
Cambodia has been able to test far more people than America.
Is the United States still a first-world country? I don't feel very exceptional right now...
20
@MCMOM
In order for anyone to "politically manipulate" tests, you first have to do some tests. The lack of which is obvious, while manipulating them is just a conspiracy theory.
And yes, lives are at risk.
7
If this doesn’t wake people in this country up to the need to have universal healthcare then I’m not sure what will. Our society is a ticking time bomb. Millions of Americans will avoid care due to not being able to afford testing or costs associated with health care. Millions more will be unable to take time off from work and get even more people sick. It’s moments like these where all the structural issues and decay in society and our institutions reached a breaking point.
This is why we need fundamental reform in this country. From the healthcare system, to our work policies and culture, to our education system and the ignorance and propaganda being spread by right-wing media in this moment, we will all be doomed in the end unless we take a major look at the state of this country and start demanding more. The status quo is broken. Our nation is a house of cards and many people will suffer if we do not change things.
31
@BReed
I just read an article yesterday that stated the the NHS is also unprepared and unequipped to deal with COVID 19. I don’t think the UK will fare better than we will.
There are many good arguments for single-payer, but I’m not sure that COVID 19 is going to be one of them.
2
Overheard tonight on the Staten Island ferry:
Young woman: This is serious. It's spreading everywhere. People are not informed.
Policeman; I'm not worried. I eat a lot of broccoli.
Young woman: I eat a lot of broccoli too, but I am still worried.
xoxoxo NYC
30
@Clarice, policemen are intrepid by nature, but everybody else should rather eat ice cream or a hamburger, or both, instead of broccoli. It doesn't help to fight the virus either, but it tastes much better.
15
What should we do if we are amongst the 50 million who either don't have Health insurance or weak policies? Should we go to the hospital or just walk around and hope we don't have the Virus?
17
There aren't any weak policies under Obamacare.
Bringing inadequate coverage back that benefits insurers is precisely the improvement to Obamacare that Trump is aiming for.
4
@Kevin Banker
You do realize the Trump administration has a case in the Court of Appeals right now to COMPLETELY overturn all provisions of Obamacare?
18
@Philip W It's too close to call.
Yes, but *why* can't New York create it's own test kits? Why is it reliant on the obviously stalling CDC?
9
@Anon I'm wondering the same thing. Two hospitals in Boston are testing--Mass General and Brigham and Women's. In Houston we have a giant medical center, but the only testing is with a single CDC kit that has a capacity for 250-400 tests.
4
@Anon
Trump is incompetent. But wants to control this virus, as if not testing makes him look better. Even though it may put more people at risk and lead to more cases down the road.
PR is ALL in this “administration.”
Woe is us.
2
@Anon Science is not "Give me $3 million ; I will give you a vaccine tomorrow" like Trump thinks
"On the East Coast, a cluster has emerged in New York State. All but a few of its 33 confirmed cases as of Friday were liked to a New Rochelle man."
I hope people realize that the reason this cluster has emerged and that most positive cases are linked to this cluster in New Rochelle, is because, well, those are the lucky select few that have been tested.
I wonder how many such "clusters" are in New York...and at what point it will seem as if all those "clusters" confusingly start to blend into one another, almost seamlessly, as if the virus were widespread already.
20
@glorynine It's also very sobering that so many people were infected in a relatively short time starting from just one person. This can rip through an office in no time.
7
I wonder if Trump is thinking after rolling out $8.9 billion in emergency aid and testing kits, " Maybe Obamacare is not a bad idea after all?" Doubt it ,but the fact if the Trump Administration has the gall to continue its push for repeal after we get passed this crisis will certainly and hopefully wake up our Nation as to how even more important healthcare for all in this Nation will be if crisis like this becomes the norm .
12
Sitting near if not in a COVID 19 epicenter, I would like to hear about all the thousands of people who have had the virus and are doing just fine. How about a balanced perspective. Influenza is still way ahead in terms of people affected and lives lost.
2
@dgm
Sigh.
The mortality rate for COVID-19 is 3.4%. Seasonal flu is 0.1%.
Which makes COVID-19 3400% as deadly.
Are we just that bad at math?
26
That’s misleading. The flu has a vaccine. COV-19 does not.
Which means that the flu mortality rate would be MUCH higher if no one was vaccinated! The 1918 flu epidemic, for example, had a much more mortality rate.
7
I think the issue is we only know about the worst cases and the cases of death. We have no idea how many are hanging out in bed sick with it but with mild symptoms. Hence the feeling of hysteria. Reminds me of just before IRAQ War. Hysteria and now WMD.
3
Think the virus is not in New Mexico? How would we know? So far only 10 people have been tested in New Mexico according to the NM Health Department website and the test guidelines are still if you traveled to one of the affected areas abroad and are showing symptoms that have already been tested to rule out flu.
We have a lot of tourists coming to New Mexico to visit Taos or Santa Fe from different countries and parts of the US. We also have many older retirees here. Why have so few people been tested? Couldn't have anything to do with not wanting to affect tourism can it? I see no effort by the federal or state officials to get accurate answers about who is actually infected. They conveniently keep forgetting to mention that people can be asymptomatic and spread the disease.
In the meantime, we walk around not knowing if the coughing person in the line at the super market has the virus. And all this talk that the death rate is lower than what the WHO said (3.5%)--until they have actual data in the US from millions of tests to back it up, they should shut their mouths and start testing as many people as possible. A little transparency would help calm fears.
16
In the US the number of cases has also doubled in three days, as in Europe. The previous doubling in case number in the US took four days. This is what exponential growth looks like.
19
We have 50 State health departments 100's more local health departments, a 1,000 private labs, 100's of hospital labs, 1,000 more college and university labs, plus the pharmaceutical labs. Only the CDC test kits are allowed. this is exactly how not to respond to a pandemic, central Federal control. The CDC should release the test protocols to all qualified labs immediately. Where necessary Governors can commandeer lab capacity. instruct Chemistry and Medical students in how to perform the test and get moving.
32
@Mkm
Chemistry and med students?
Not a great way to get scientifically tests. Not just anyone is qualified to do this.
However, why did the FDA (not CDC, by the way) not get on this issue back in mid-February when we saw it
coming?
Oh, right - it was all still just a hoax to crash "Trump's" stock market until 2 days ago.
11
It’s surprising that companies in the US don’t know how to manufacture protective clothing and masks. It doesn’t seem that high tech to me.
17
@Rock Winchester
Just like many of our pharmaceuticals, this capacity has been outsourced to China by corporations taking maximum profits on both the manufacturing and retailing sides.
There are also 2,200 prescription "drugs of concern" that the FDA is refusing to name with main ingredients (or the whole dose) made only in China. We are getting ready for an eye-opening look at how these companies have been fleecing us for their own bottom line.
21
We have case here in Nebraska now, not the people quarantined from the cruise ship.
Lady that came back to Omaha from the UK. Apparently had respiratory symptoms for 12 days and finally decided to go the doctor, and tested positive for coronavirus.
16
It's a good thing we in America pay twice what the rest of the world pays so we can be covered by our beloved private health insurers rather than the government. Imagine the waits for tests and the rationing that would be going on if we had government-funded care! And the $3,000 charge is so low, we can be sure everyone will be tested (if the kits ever show up) and the pandemic controlled.
40
A test here in Switzerland costs about $300...
1
@617to416. Just stop with the political division. I'm so tired of all of you left and right.
@Erik
A test in the UK costs $0.00
3
Pence-nocchio has learned well from his boss. His press conference consisted of spewing all kinds of numbers about Coronavirus testing, none of which were reassuring. Both he and Dr. Hahn of the CDC referred to the swab test kits as the actual tests. But the testing is done remotely at a collection of labs. Apparently, also according to Pence, this crisis is all about cruise ships and the vast majority of people in the US have nothing to worry about.
18
Recommended just for the great nickname pence-nochio
Everyone is concerned that not enough testing is available. They are focused on the accuracy of the death rate percentage. That entirely misses the point. The bottom line is that whatever the mortality rate is, the same number of people will die. Widespread testing of minimally symptomatic people is basically an epidemiologically tool. It helps find out where the cases are and factors related to how it spread. As the pandemic unfolds, the number of minimally infected people is not really what is important to know. It is how many ventilators will we need? How many hospital respiratory isolation beds will we need? How many special respiratory critical care units will need to be started up? How will primary care be delivered when the patient encounter becomes a high risk event for the provider?
And where are the expert individuals who are looking at these questions in an impartial environment and guiding us through this disaster and looking out for our health?
31
This analysis is interesting except for it’s wrong. Widespread testing will lead to identification of infected carriers who can be isolated and contaminate less people downstream as a result. When that happens the mortality rate will inevitably decrease. To say the same number of people will die regardless of the percentage mortality rate, is in its essence incorrect.
3
Didn’t the government sequester the protective masks? Isn’t there a 3M factory in South Dakota that’s supposed to be manufacturing 24/7? Why not give a set amount to everyone as a means to help protect even if it is limited, it has to be of some help.
9
Last year I had several boxes of new, N95 masks for sale at my garage sale. I offered them at one third the price in stores but no one was interested. The sudden rush to buy masks reminds me of people who upon seeing snow accumulations on their walk, rush to the store to buy a snow shovel.
5
The NYT wrote a wonderful piece about the ability of tech companies to follow people everywhere through their cell phones. It pointed out that this data was being collected and saved. It was a clear example of how technology is making privacy difficult in the era of the ubiquitous smartphone.
And the CDC, or any medical authority, when they test for Covid-19, they presumably ask folks “where have you been?”
In the USA I don’t imagine asking people for their cellphone id, correlating that info for the last 14 days and publishing that info to really understand where contagious folks have been would go over too well.
But China doesn’t seem to care about individual freedoms in quite the same way. Perhaps they are already doing this.
Regardless, their should be a good cache of historical info to learn from. And this is not the only pandemic our rapacious species is likely to have, so learning is our main hope to understand how to spread novel viral diseases.
2
Where are those "one million" test kits that Pence promised? California has only 5,000 test kits available, with more than that number on the watchlist, and 60+ confirmed cases. The administration response has been abysmal.
46
@RSSF The head of the FDA also promised the ability to test 1 million test by the end of the week. Meanwhile, the entire Houston metro area only has one testing kit, capable of testing 250-400 people they say.
I remember during Gulf War II people made fun of "Baghdad Bob," the Iraq spokesman who said that the Americans were nowhere near Bagdhad while the U.S. tanks rolled in. Well, we have the same problem in the U.S.
4
Any day now. Any day. And you get a free pony too.
4
My own state of North Carolina has 150, with two people testing positive since the beginning of the week.
1
I wonder how many kits are in the White House and Capitol
Another way for trump to punish New York is to deprive us of kits Would not put it past him
49
Hey wait! I thought we were at 15 heading down to zero. Did someone lie to me? Our president wouldn't lie would he???
51
Thank you CDC for your website because this website is the o key one providing hospital staff with personnel protective equipment information. For those of us on the frontline, we are not getting information until a patient arrives.
13
Time to send in Space Force?
33
What’s next...frogs and locusts?
18
@Susanna,
The Beeb has been reporting that locusts are already plaguing Africa.
Maybe turning the rivers into blood is next.
Or smiting the first born.
I think you'll find the locusts are already doing what locusts do (see reports from Africa)!Will it rain frogs? Well not if they're from France... No one is flying in Europe.
Let’s not forget that this abject failure of adequate planning and management has happened on Trump’s watch. He should be shouldering the primary blame as Commander in Chief. I give his management and leadership a straight F so far. He has a lot of work to do to get to an E grade.
52
I cannot stand that people are trying to politicize this horribly tragic world event. Let’s focus on solutions and how we can all fight this virus versus playing the blame game. There is no time for that right now. We need to make sure our communities are prepared and ask how we can help those in need.
4
@Tonya McKinny we wouldn’t be politicizing this tragic world event if our “commander in chief” hadn’t done so first by eliminating the pandemic response team that Obama put in place simply because Obama did it. Trump shows his incompetence in many ways but it is not acceptable that his spite is the cause inadequate response and of suffering and death among Americans. If that’s politicizing this, so be it.
10
@Tonya McKinney Facts are facts. Trump is doing a horrible and dangerous job, and is only making the situation much worse through both his actions, and inactions. Stand down Donald and let the experts handle this.
4
Weren't we just told yesterday there are enough tests for everyone to have one?
35
Coronavirus is going to be Trump's Katrina.
57
Funny - I have been commenting since December that we cannot contain that which we cannot test for, but yet the Trump administration has burned the clockand wasted months grandstanding and posturing while the US was woefully unprepared to test for Covid 19. Now the bill for incompetence is coming due which means we have zero containment due to critical shortage of test kits. Accordingly, we have what I can only describe as DEFCON 2 heading for DEFCON 1 in the sense that American is under a biological attack (and yes pandemics not involving Soviet era genetically engineered pathogens are still "biological attacks" as well as a natural disaster requiring Pentagon war gaming and a coordinated federal, state and local response to prevent harm to the US Homeland and the degradation of US military preparedness).
Due to Trump's utter and total unfitness for the office he holds and his gross incompetence magnified exponentially by that of his administration (the "D" and "F" teams) of grifters and partisan hacks, the USA in the midst of a "biological attack" is politically decapitated and we have no effective federal government leadership, preparations, pandemic preparedness, public action plans or coordinated responses to adequately defend the US Homeland and save American lives from a pandemic threat. We have grossly insufficient resources in every category. This is much worse than December 7 1941, when we at least had great SIGINT but no intelligence Infrastructure.
33
It is misleading to say the USA has only X^^ cases when the government has been so parsimonious about dispensing testing supplies.
Who can say how many asymptomatic carriers may be unknowingly infecting others? Wikipedia has an interesting entry on a historic case, Typhoid Mary.
17
@VadaH AFA I'm concerned, we've got 330 million cases in the U.S. until proven otherwise. I'll be in the bunker if you need me......
Vote Trump out of office! His administration's response is mediocre at most.
40
Thank goodness for Donald J. Trump!
For when one needs to out a little fake-science
There's nothing better than a fake-leader
13
imagine if he had this response to climate change
7
I wish everyone could redirect their angst to climate crisis or guns ... something way more scary than corona virus.
1
No test kits (yet)?
Why not swab now and preserve for future test availability?
Surely it is helpful to know the actual number infected, and evolution/mutation of the virus over time, whether or not the infected do or don’t survive without extra care.
14
Such a false sense of security when you read about OUR 250 confirmed cases. We haven't tested many more people than that - thank you Trump abomination. You've been stealing our m one for your obscene wall, gaming our Stock Markets and antagonizing our allies while undermining our Constitution and our courts. You SHOULD have been anticipating the crisis like most of the rest of the world.
As testing ramps up, watch the "total" shoot up. They were there all the time, spreading the pandemic as no one watched. Kudos to the CDC for doing their best, but after 3+ years of being ignored by The Idiot Dotard, even the best minds can't work miracles.
As we ALL know, Trump is REactive and in the moment - he has no idea how to plan and takes no competent advice. Hannity, Carlson and Ingraham (not to mention Graham and the rest of his cult) are partisan political fools and even worse than he is. They help keep "The Party of Trump" deaf, blind, stupid and pregnant.
When you're in bed with a crook, don't expect any good outcomes - and with Trump you can be sure you will be taken for a long, expensive ride off a very short pier.
52
I am taking all sensible precautions, and yet why do I still see people on the subway coughing with abandon and not covering their mouths? This will spread as long as people are not compliant with guidelines or just don't care. Unfortunately, the rest of us are frequently in close proximity to these selfish idiots.
35
@Wry And Dry I share your frustration and then some. Wanted to add - why have so many doctor offices/LabCorp (places with sick people) switched to touch screens for check in???!!! Today my healthy husband had to go to LabCorp and a woman who was visibly sick was coughing into her hand and blowing her nose before using the touch screen, never sanitized with the available purell and then proceeded to help herself to water from the waiting room water cooler with unwashed hands. I assume every surface in public is contaminated!
2
Testing?
Pfffft!
We don't need no stinkin' testing.
20
I am watching Trump at his CDC visit as I write this. Windbreaker, “Keep America Great “ red hat (of course), hands in pockets, with a bored, disinterested “I would rather be anywhere this here” look on his face, like they are wasting his time. What a dolt. Make that an ignorant dolt.
94
@A Bird In The Hand - I hate to say it, but they are wasting time: their own. Trump has no interest in anything the CDC has to say, regarding this or anything else, and his disdain for intellectual discourse and scientific thought is well-known. Whatever the CDC told him probably went in one ear and out the other. I know they had to talk to him because he’s the president, but I wish there was someone else in this administration whom they could speak to who would actually take them seriously. No, that person is not Mike Pence, who thought the correct response to the HIV crisis in Indiana was to pray. The CDC cannot do its job when this lackluster and incompetent administration will not support it, financially or publicly, and part of the result of that is an uptick in cases, a lack of testing kits, a woeful lack of information in some quarters on when and how to quarantine, the ignoring of healthcare directives entirely (see the case of the Dartmouth-Hitchcock employee who went to a party before learning he had the virus but after being told he needed to avoid people), and an every-man-for-himself attitude that has led to a nationwide shortage of hand sanitizer and a run on cleaning products and other household necessities.
5
Here's how we are doing as a country
As of today the coronavirus is in 91 countries latest numbers 2020 03 06
Cases dead
There are 100,122 3,409
Our United States is in the top 10 of the 91 countries with reported cases of the coronavirus 19
Country cases dead
China 80,555 3,042
South Korea 6,593 43
Iran 4747 124
Italy 3,927 148
Diamond Princess 706 6
Germany 578 0
France 423 9
Japan 360 6
Spain 249 3
United States 236 14
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3864928
Achieving the end of the coronavirus will not be a miracle.
It will not be April wishes. It will not come through blame, politics or deceptive counting. It will be the result of unity and hard work by the American People.
1
How is it unique to American people ?
5
So there are 250 cases of this virus in a country of 350 million people. That doesn't seem like a reason to panic. People need to calm down and the media needs to stop causing this hysteria.
7
In order to confirm a case, it must be tested for. Many people with symptoms of the Coronavirus are NOT being tested because the Federal government has not provided adequate testing kits. So the actual number of cases may be much higher than reported. Without enough testing kits, the numbers will be incorrect. And LOW.
40
@Joe
Yes. And last week it was lower, and next week it will be higher.
Pretending the virus is "just a cold" (with a 2% mortality rate) and then broadcasting that as truth, makes you a public menace.
You want panic to subside? Have Trump shut up and stop tweeting for 2 months, and let the CDC do all the talking.
42
@Joe This is not a matter of absolute numbers at this point, but of containment. As the number of cases - both detected and undetected - rise, the virus becomes far more difficult to contain, and the number of cases rise exponentially. If left unchecked, without sufficient awareness and public health measures, the virus will spread like wildfire and could infect millions. The major worry is not in containing cases that have already been tested and confirmed, but containing an outbreak from cases where the individual presents asymptomatically, or has yet to be confirmed due to lack of testing (and is going about their lives infecting others).
In short, there is plenty of reason for alarm, if only to stem the severity of what will transpire.
12
Currently living in Westchester County and going to school in the city. Hand Sanitizers and masks are no where to be found in any of CVS stores and any other stores. All the state government did was spraying disinfectant in subway where rats and garbages were piling up for centuries. They were quick to criticize how Chinese government handle the outbreak. It's time for NY state officials to step up the way they are handling the case before it's too late.
18
@Shein
OK. Tell us what they should do.
And by the way, rats and garbage in the subway have nothing to do with this virus.
CDC responded to all previous pandemic threats as you would expect
it seems CDC is not being allowed to respond adequately to this situation
17
How can you trust official provided numbers???? More likely the Chinese government wants us to think the virus is more in control. It could be expanding exponentially for all we know. Global heal depends on global transparency.
4
@Patricia
You are right that reliable numbers are an important tool in understanding the virus. Sadly the country that appears to be providing some of the least reliable data at the moment is the US.
15
Just 9 days ago, President Trump told us there were only 15 cases in the US and the number was going down.
28
And if you want some laughs, watch the "Closer Look" segment from last night's Seth Meyers.
2
For a sense of proportion: "The virus is still much less widespread than annual flu epidemics, which result in up to 5 million cases annual severe cases around the world and from 290,000 to 650,000 deaths annually, according to WHO."
Annual deaths from the flu in the US 8-10,000. Hospitalization this year in the US from the common flu: 142,000. Deaths so far from the common flu in the US this year: 8.200.
I hate to sound like I might agree with Trump on anything, and while I agree it is overplayed, it is certainly not aimed at him.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/flu-bigger-concern-wuhan-virus-grabs-headlines/5701932
3
@Miriam I believe the difference is that the flu is expected and accounted for, there is a vaccine that actually minimizes death rates quite a bit (the overall death rate of a common flu strain is very low -- it's just the raw numbers that look big) and it is, in short, a known quantity that is baked into the cake every single year.
This strain of coronavirus is new and unknown, and seems to spread very easily. There is not yet a vaccine or treatment of any kind, really, and at least so far, the death rate appears to be far worse than the flu (although in the end, it will likely be much lower than it currently appears).
So it is an unknown quantity, and the uncertainty is what is unsettling people and the markets, etc. As with any newly realized pandemic situation, things are very likely to calm down with time, and as our overall knowledge about this new corona strain increases.
Comparing to the flu at this point isn't even that useful of an exercise.
15
@Miriam
How do you know it won't go into such numbers?
It was lower last week. I'm sure it'll be higher next week.
The only conclusion I can draw from your post is that we should do nothing. Which, given what I've read on the CDC site, is an irresponsible position.
15
@Miriam Hope you read the article. We have hardly tested. NY is begging for more test kits.
13
250? It can't be 250. Just yesterday people were posting in the NYT comments that "its only 100", and there were thousands of flu cases.
I suppose that right now, those same people are posting that "its only 250".
Next week they may be posting that "its only 1500".
19
@Jerseytime Imagine real count ? of untested cases
4
@Jerseytown
Maybe they should publish the flu cases, compare to last year. Maybe then we get a better idea?
This is an evolving big threat and we need a marshall plan/moonshot type approach to it. Unfortunately we don't have the leadership to carry it out right now so fasten your seatbelts and hang on.
6
Here's an idea for combating COVID-19. Invoke Article 25; let men in white coats drag Trump out of the Oval Office; fire Pence, Kudlow, KellyAnn Conway and other spinmasters; appoint a president who actually knows what he's doing and surround him with medical professionals who know what they're doing. And get rid of Trump's Senate enablers. How many more people must die before the incompetence of this pathetic reality show president actually convinces them that he is a clear and present danger? The Taliban violated his "no violence" agreement in Afghanistan before the ink was barely dry. Iran now has enough fissile material for a nuclear bomb because he tore up Obama's nuclear accord. Kim Jong-un continues to make nukes despite all the love letters he has sent to Trump. And we now have a pandemic because Trump's ego won't let him admit he's out of his depth.
26
In Germany we have 534 Corona cases according to the official WHO data. Zero (0) fatalities. In the USA there are 148 cases and 10 fatalities. How come? Fundamental differences in the health care systems .... and another president ... factors that decide our fate.
27
@Stephan
There are more dead here because there was/is an outbreak in a nursing home.
5
@Stefan Kutter
With utterly disbelief I keep looking at the cases in Germany and your 0 deaths.... Compare that to any other country... Where do you put your dead people? Simply not possible.
You are aware, aren’t you, if you fringe the numbers it is not going to help us globally. This virus will come back in fall and in spring 2021 and as they say the more times you get exposed to it the harder it will hit. This is also true for young people.
As we all know a vaccine is far away.
This is why it is in everyone’s interest to be honest and to put every thinkable measure in place to prevent a widespread of this.
We are a global society and worldwide we are all in that. Come next year old and young..
.. Besides that it will create a economical down spiral probably never seen before.
So it is time to test but it is also time to not to lie.
2
@Stephan Kutter
Yet, France, your western neighbour, has a pretty good, well, comparable health system and quite a few deaths.
1
It's beginning to look like near-ubiquitous infection is the most likely scenario as the year unfolds.
There's lot of talk about a vaccine. Does anyone know of any coronavirus disease for which there is a working deployed vaccine (SARS, MERS...)?
There is a further concern about the immunity that surviving an infection produces. How is this for other coronaviruses? Hopefully it's not like Norovirus which we get over and over again.
Here is my point: the biggest factor in how bad the situation will get is whether the healthcare system is overwhelmed. With the right care (starting with simple oxygen and going up to artificial oxygenation) the death rate is way down compared to warehousing the sick in makeshift "hospitals".
So maybe it's time to mandate flu vaccination. It won't reduce the number of COVID-19 cases, but maybe there will be chance of finding a ventilator with 60% fewer flu cases.
8
I've kind of informally created a rule of zeros with this administration. If circumstances are bad for Trump, then add two zeros to the numbers they are claiming. If it's good for trump, take off three zeros to the numbers they are claiming. You'll arrive at a plausible answer to whatever is in question.
20
The CDC said over a week ago that they would start doing surveillance testing, which is when the samples of people with the coronavirus symptoms would be checked even if they hadn’t had a known contact or travel flag. This type of study helps to show how/whether there is general spread of the virus. Since then, they have basically fallen silent (silenced, no doubt, by Pence). No study results have been released. Their last media telebriefing was on March 3rd. We are being kept in the dark and sick people aren’t being tested.
24
The pattern of the virus spread and the number of cases (likely under-reported) is starting to resemble that of the early days in China. Looks like we are just getting started here.
15
Many of the these 250 victims of the coronavirus will be mild cases. With the proper care and quarantine precautions they should recover fully. The surest way to get over this virus is to follow the regulations that are required. And people need to remember to wash their hands regularly, avoid large crowds and just use common sense.
"Wear a face mask when you go to the doctor's office and you are around other people."
Seriously? Have you tried to buy face masks recently? You can't. And there are no hand sanitizers or disinfectant wipes left either. Why aren't stores, or even Amazon, restocking these supplies?
9
@Diane
They come from China...
1
Because the supply chain, primarily China, is broken.
Quit politicizing this. Do you really think things would be hunky dory if saint Obama was still president? The only real complaint might be the lag in getting the test kits out, but do you really think we'd have fewer cases and fewer deaths if Obama was still in office, or HRC? The reality is that many people had arrived in the US who had coronavirus before we had any idea that we might be confronting an epidemic, and they then exposed others who exposed others.
Most on the left seem to be using this as an opportunity to bash Trump, maybe win the election -- but the reality is Trump has done what needs to be done. He's put together a team of experts, they are updating the public on a regular basis while pushing testing kits and the search for a vaccine. Congress has passed an emergency spending bill to help fight Corona and Trump will certainly sign the bill. It's premature to shut done travel or to quarantine the country IMO so I'm not sure what else you want Trump to do. We don't know the transmission or mortality rates. We believe, probably accurately and agrees with what with what happens with flu and other viruses, that mortality rates are likely higher for those with pre-existing health conditions, particularly the elderly. So those at highest risk should be particularly careful about washing their hands and keeping social contacts to a minimum.
And Trump is almost certainly correct that the 3.4% mortality rate is way too high.
2
@Ralphie
I want Trump to stop saying idiotic things. Did you watch him on Hannity last night? Talking about his 'hunch' that mortality rate is way below 1% and that most cases are mild enough that people can keep going to work. Obama would have projected calm while accepting the official figures of the scientists and telling people to take common sense precautions like, say, NOT going to work sick.
22
@Mr. Adams Trump is probably right -- it's not him making it up, most authorities don't buy the 3.4% number the WHO head stated -- and the WHO has walked that back. we don't have enough data to know the transmission or mortality rates. Butg they are bound to go down (you might read the article comparing flu and coronavirus) as we get more data.
There are several key differences between how Obama would have dealt with it and how Trump is dealing with it. The most obvious one is that Obama did not gut the CDC so we would have been better prepared. Next he would not be saying things that are flat out wrong on a daily basis and misleading a large part of the population about a potentially deadly situation. Also Obama would have been concerned with the well being of the public not the stock market or how it would affect the possibility of his re-election. It is the difference between having a rational human being in charge versus a barking lunatic. Yesterday Trump tried to blame all of this on Obama in his town hall meeting in Pa. Never have I seen a more privileged individual whine and complain about how unfairly he is being treated. Nobody twisted his arm and made him run for President. He said he wanted the job. Now that he is starting to realize he is in over his head, god only knows the damage he will do.
7
The Atlantic estimates that close to 2000 Americans have been tested. In NYC alone, there are close to 3000 people under voluntary quarantine. NYC is reported to be capable of testing 100-200 people/day. We can't even test the people we KNOW need to be tested in NYC, not to mention all those other unknown cases out there. This is a profound failure of our health system. It is inevitable that widespread closing of public gatherings will be needed in NYC. Yet, no one is coming out and saying it. They continue to downplay. Be honest with the people so that they might prepare rather than panic later. For shame all around.
25
A few days ago the administration said they would have 1 million test kits available as of today, Friday. Turns out they have a small fraction of that number available.
Untold numbers of Americans are going to lose their lives because of the test kit fiasco that has unfolded over the last month. The press and citizens of the country need to hold the President and his people accountable for the horrific job they've done so far in managing this crisis.
19
My Corona rules part 2
I try to stay off the internet many people will try to frighten you, I go to the WHO webpage or the CDC, they will know much more than some fear mongers on the internet.
I don’t read the comments in the Times anymore, unless it is truly helpful. How do I know someone who says they are a nurse is really a nurse and not someone trying to spread fear.
I turn off the news at a certain hour and watch my favorite shows, especially comedies, laughter is the best medicine , and negativity is bad for the heart
At age 55 I am right at the bottom of the spectrum of people in most danger , so I am improving my odds by getting as healthy as I can
I have trained my mind to not concentrate on the worse that can happen, and concentrate on the best that can happen.
I live in the moment and do not let my thoughts rush ahead
YouTube is an invaluable tool, I learned how to make my own face mask .
I am getting into meditating
I am losing weight and I find my knees no longer hurt
My favorite show is Ken Burns The Roosevelt’s, I watch it over and over. It inspires me .
I believe there are great scientists in the world and one will have a breakthrough , until then I will do my best to keep Corona out of my body I have learned from every cold I have ever had, where I got them, how I got them.
Nothing in this world is impossible, we sent a man to the moon, somebody will figure something out
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
10
@Lonnie
People do not die of fear of the virus. They die from complacency and being infected by the virus; and even if they don't die they could spread it to others who will die.
You say "Nothing in this world is impossible, we sent a man to the moon, somebody will figure something out"
That sounds ominously like Trump in 2016 when asked about what he would replace the ACA with.
He said "something good"
Now after 3 and 1/2years of doing nothing he is repeating it. here is a quote from his very recent town hall meeting:
'What we'd like to do is totally kill [ObamaCare] but come up, before we do that, with something that's great," Trump said.
https://theweek.com/speedreads/900356/trump-tells-town-hall-plans-cut-entitlements-hopes-replace-obamacare-something-great
3
Despite all of this publicity we still have people who do not wash their hands with soap and cough and sneeze into their hands. I for one would like to see more PSAs on the local news demonstrating proper technique rather than all this pontificating.
4
I suspect the numbers here are so imprecise as to be essentially meaningless. And that obscures the real story—we don’t know what is going on, and that is the very reason that the situation is so frightening.
8
My Corona rules part 1
I have thrown away the donuts, and replaced them with apples.
I try to walk everyday a little more than the day before
I am to lose 25 pounds and get my body in the best shape it’s been in years, If I smoked I would stop.i cut down on sugar except for peanut butter and jelly ( yum)
I eat less and am getting my body ready for a time in case their are food shortages , I was eating too much anyway.
I picked up the Bible for the first time in years , I thank god every day for the years I have had .
I try to limit my contact with people, I use my credit card to gas up. When I touch the hose handle I use a glove or ziplock bag,
I conserve everything , I discard nothing unless it had food on it, I use one Clorox wipe over and over , conserving it in a ziplock bag.
I only use gloves when I am touching something really bad, I have learned to use ziplock bags rather than gloves in most things.
I wear a mask when I go out among people and goggles that are snug to my face .
I use Amazon for most of my shopping, why go to a store when Amazon can deliver it. When the Amazon person comes to the door I tell him to leave the box near the door and open it when they leave.
If I order take out , I pay by credit card , even the tip, I tell them to bring it in a paper bag and leave it by the door. Before I eat , I reheat the food just in case.
I have taken off from work because I work in an office and there are too many people.
End part 1
3
Once again, a misleading headline that downplays the threat. The headline should have read: "Officially Confirmed Cases in the U.S. Surpass 250." The first paragraph beneath that should have noted comments from CDC and NIH officials that they expect the numbers to "explode" once testing becomes more widespread.
In an interview yesterday, an NIH infectious diseases expert stated that he believes the death rate is much lower than the 3.4% being reported because there are many more total cases that are being unreported. He opined that the true death rate could be as low at .1%. What he did not point out is that if that untested hypothesis is true, then given the number of confirmed deaths in the USA already then the total number of cases is at least ten times higher than the official count. His entire argument did nothing to downplay how many people will die from CoVid-19. Instead, he only said that many more people will get it and not die.
3
We need to stop chalking up the lack of testing for COVID-19 in the United States to failure to plan, and accept the fact that NOT testing IS the plan.
22
So get this — I just went out for a few things. Walking back home, guy passes me on the sidewalk, he’s at most 2 feet away. Coughs right in my face.
No, I am not kidding.
It’s almost like he did it deliberately. Maybe he did do it deliberately. Who knows.
But I’m thinking, really? Really??
16
The Federal Response has been HORRID. We have been told by the Commander in Chief that it is a HOAX and his Officials have been "Muzzled" unless Pence approves of their comments. What do we do if we have regular flu symptoms: go to the Doctors Office; Stay home for 14 days even though we have difficulty paying the Mortgage; just ignore our symptoms and go on like a normal flu???? We need Federal Answers. Our GOP Governor has not answered these questions either.
7
On the Marine Traffic website I’ve been following the Grand Princess as it cruises endlessly in a rectangle outside San Francisco. Is it true only 45 people aboard have been tested? The results were supposed to be announced today, but it’s now almost two in the afternoon and the ship is still idling. Why are we receiving no updates? What do the authorities plan to do if there are Coronavirus cases aboard?
3
Who knew that the CDC's Infectious Disease Prevention team wasn't just "waste and fraud"?
I mean , really - who could have guessed?
7
Is it morally indefensible to hope that this causes the end of Trump?
6
Between Trump, the primaries, climate change impacts, and now the corona virus, my anxiety is high and almost constant.
Do I have a cold? stomach flu or is it worse? Should I get tested? Am I taking test kits away from those who really need it?
And to try to live normally seems nuts as well as "first world problems (but i still am grappling with the concept)": can I go to work? the gym? symphony performances? volunteer events?
1
We now have somewhat more data on the real fatality rate. Of all the countries which have had a coronavirus outbreak, South Korea has had the most robust large-scale testing completed. The fatality rate estimate in South Korea is 0.64%. The overall fatality rate reported by the WHO (3.4%) is grossly overstating the real fatality rate as it includes cases tested during January in China, when testing was limited and only for those with strong obvious symptoms.
More details here that support the Korean findings - https://www.inkstonenews.com/health/south-koreas-aggressive-coronavirus-testing-gives-clues-fatality-rate/article/3073945
So Bernie's idea of Medicare for All is not feasible? Too expensive? We just need to make incremental changes and not cut into insurance company profits? Elect the guy who promises the heads of big corporations that nothing will change substantially?
Seems to me the Coronavirus has cast the deciding vote.
21
His solution for medicare for all isn’t necessarily a solution for a pandemic. If there is still limited ER capacity and potentially the same supply of doctors and medical care there would also be a problem providing care and testing everyone who came in with the sniffles. ERs could be potentially overwhelmed and the sickest and most at-risk people could still fall through the cracks. Coronavirus is rip-roaring through Italy and SK.
What we need is effective, detail-oriented, and data-driven management. We had two excellent candidates (Warren and Bloomberg) who could have been great leaders in this situation, but both got beat up and forced out of the race.
2
@Markus
As soon as you have a Medicare for all you certainly start investing in ER‘s, hospitals, education et all. Why? Because in order not to overwhelm a public healthcare system one has to expand it carefully otherwise if just chaotic it will (really) cost too much.
5
It is inevitable that the Covid 19 will be seen in the United States. There will be many undiagnosed cases regardless how prepared we may be. We should take precautions and do our best to limit the spread. The press is not helping the situation. I hate to say it but the press is creating hysteria. Store shelves are bare of many items.
The use of reusable grocery bags is not going to help limit the spread of the virus. New York State and all other states that have banned disposable plastic grocery bags should immediately reverse that decision. People should not be bringing bags which cannot be sterilized into grocery stores, placing them on check out counters or carrying them in public spaces. They are only go to help spread germs. The use of hand dryers in bath rooms also needs to be discouraged. There is ample evidence that these devices spread germs. Disposable paper towels should be the standard. We cannot sacrifice people's health for the environment.
16
Let's do the numbers again.
New York City has enough test kits for around a thousand people. New York City resident population = 8.4 million. The commuter population adds between 1.5 to 3 million people. Let's call it a cool 10 million on any given day.
You'll probably need a scientific calculator at this point.
1,000 ÷ 10,000,000 = 0.01 percent. New York City has the ability to test 0.01% of the population. That sounds about right. My state scored 0.013% not including non-resident travelers. Yep. We're in trouble.
35
@Andy - Yep, we have no idea how many cases there are in New York City right now. Hospitals will simply not give the test to anyone who is not on death's doorstep because there is virtually no capacity to process the tests.
8
@Andy Exactly.
3
How different are the corona virus test kits from other viral test kits that they are in such short supply ? I can understand laboratory protocols for PCR testing would be unique for COVID 19, but the test kits for collecting samples shouldn't be so different from other viral test kits for swab samples.
3
@Tim You are correct but the protocols are very rigid requiring specific reagents. Good for consistency. Very bad for flexibility or quick response.
4
@Tim - The main problem is limited capacity to process the test samples, not taking the samples themselves. So they're just not taking any samples unless the patient presents with dire symptoms. I was told this last night at a major New York City ER.
Here's one prediction I have about the virus. We just had Super Tuesday where millions of voters jostled together and stood in lines sometimes for hours. If the virus is such a national calamity I would expect to see a vast increase in infections due to all those people in close contact. If not, maybe we should relax a bit and apply those common-sense protections. And our highest priority should be protecting our elderly, infirm citizens, friends and relatives.
10
@Robert McConnell we’ll see what happens in up to 14 days. Could take that much time to show symptoms.
3
In two weeks let’s see what OR’s infection rate has risen to, my unscientific guess, 200x what it is now.
6
@Harriet Burandt
There are two so far.
So as of now with 8.3 billion and 250 cases, that's 33 million per patient, while research on many diseases is woefully underfunded. This money will go to what exactly?
1
@Will Rothfuss
250 cases today, yes, but the numbers are growing at 30%/day, so that will be about 100 million cases in 7 weeks... so that's about $80/patient. Not too much.
5
Your per patient number is off because that’s an artificially low number of “cases.” Extremely low. Limited by extremely limited testing. Otherwise you make a good point re funding for other illnesses.
2
@Will Rothfuss
Tax cut "relief "for the airline,cruiseship and travel industries.
1
Tried to buy chicken soup last night from my favorite online store. They were completely sold out.
6
Angela- in the Midwest
Stores out of chicken soup?
Buy chicken, and simmer a couple hours with carrots, celery, dill, onions. Cheaper, more delicious, less salt, more plentiful!
Enjoy!
6
I think we should consider alternatives to PCR based testing for COVID-19. Non contrast chest CT has been shown to be more sensitive than PCR testing, is already widely available, has been used extensively in theWuhan out break, provides instant results.
As we wait for test kits to be distributed, let’s learn some of the lessons from Asia.
28
Is only informative if the patient has pneumonia.
I don’t need a CT to diagnose that, a stethoscope is sufficient. Neither tells me, however, whether I am looking at the flu or Coronavirus.
4
Wearing masks is important especially when some carriers could be asymptomatic. A home sewn cotton mask (or even origami mask) would help cut down on the virus transmitting through the public. I watching youtube videos and there are so many tutorials out there. Keep in mind that wearing home made masks will not protect us from getting the virus, but at least it can mitigate one of its primary transmission route somewhat.
4
The real math to this thing is in plain sight. The estimate is that .5% to 3% of people who get the virus die. That means in the US where there are 14 known deaths that there are anywhere from about 500 to 2,800 cases in the US. The 100 number being used is woefully low. Worldwide there are about 3,200 dead so far. That means 105,600 to 640,000 cases worldwide. So the 100,000 estimate is at the low end. There are many unknowns and a lot of spin. Pay attention to the number of those who have died and then do the math.
16
@Pamela Landy
Yes, but how many deaths have there been that were just attributed to "pneumonia" or assumed to be influenza that were actually Covid? And people can get influenza and Covid at the same time, yes?
3
@Julian Absolutely fair questions to which the answer is, I don't know. China is now reporting no new cases, Lol!! there now seems to be a competition to see who can claim to have less of a problem. Russia initially claimed to have 5 cases which they now reduced to 4.
1
I live in a city of 500,000 and it has been reported that the health department has 5 test kits. That is ridiculous, incompetent, and wrong! Come on Washington you saw this coming!
81
Is a reporter at the NYT working on a story about how/why the CDC has been sooooooo incredibly, unbelievably incompetent in handling this outbreak??? Is it because they cut funding for the agency? Because the person in charge doesn’t believe in science? What in God’s name is going on in there???
I’m not even a health care professional and I feel like I could be doing a better job managing this.
Also: why haven’t we called up the Koreans to get tips from them? They are doing this right. We should be following their example. Testing aggressively is the best way to keep the immune-compromised and elderly protected.
What is going on??? I feel like I’m totally in the dark and don’t know if it’s because of politics or incompetence or what.
81
@L
You are in the dark, because the evangelical pastors rallied their congregations to vote in Trump. Now the USA is nearly back in the dark ages, exactly as these people want, desperate for when Christianity was great and science was barely spoken of.
10
Trump defunded the cdc, dismantled the pandemic response teams in multiple ways, and refuses to listen to experts. For a so called “businessman” he’s failed miserably in very basic business skills like supply chain, threat assessment, and delegation. He got caught here but this same awful incompetent management has ruined many of the government institutions we depend on to keep us and the economy safe. We’ll feel this destruction when other events test his failures.
9
Actually the CDC funding has not been cut. Snopes and AP fact checking can be easily googled.
3
Could the NYT find out answers to these questions?
1. What symptoms of a common cold or flu are absent in a covid19 infection? (E.g., I read a rumor that a runny nose is NOT a covid19 symptom)
2. Should we leave our shoes outside our houses?
2. Should we wash our clothes every time we return from being out?
17
@S I’m not a scientist or doctor, but leaving shoes out and changing clothes when you get home very obviously would reduce the risk of bringing germs into the house. Don’t need the NYT to research and tell you what a simple Google search would.
2
I spoke by telephone today with a friend whose adult daughter is recovering from a severe flu-like disease. She lives in Dallas but was attending a business seminar in NYC last week.
When she became symptomatic, my friend and his wife brought her back to their home here in Bucks County. They are all self quarantined in their house. The mother is an RN. They're getting food deliveries from a local supermarket. They're voluntarily and wisely doing the right thing.
Her symptoms were so severe that they took her to Doylestown Hospital twice. She tested negative for flu. The hospital has no corona virus test kits. Despite their best intentions and efforts, this family may have carried the virus to the hospital.
This is a very affluent suburban area occupied by highly educated professionals many of whom work at Merck or Johnson & Johnson. The virus may be here and it may be affect health care workers and pharmaceutical researchers. Another friend, a Merck retiree, says that development of a vaccine takes a year or longer. Human testing and evaluation of potentially harmful side effects take time.
The lack of test kits (let alone a vaccine) leaves us essentially defenseless. We cannot know where the virus is lurking. Not everyone infected will do the right thing and self quarantine.
92
@Steve M
Bucks County voted for Trump. If you want to know know why the response is so poor in your affluent community, it's because voting for Trump has dire consequences. He dismantled the Obama-created pandemic infrastructure the minute after he was elected.
14
@Steve M
The only safe thing to do during a pandemic, this or any other, is to assume that everyone is infected. Everyone. It's prudent to take precautions.
As for your friend, it's terrible, and this is going on all over the country.
14
From the Hill*:
"Health experts say that the longer the outbreak continues, the more likely it is that the global mortality rate will drop."
Best to wait until all the facts are better understood.
*********
* "Coronavirus mortality rate likely to drop, say health experts,"
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/486231-health-experts-warn-coronavirus-mortality-rate-likely-to-drop
4
@AACNY
From the same article:
""It's critical for us to expand testing. We need to do it in a way ... beyond hospitals, so we can see how many cases are out there."
What is the Trump administration's plan for this? And why wasn't it in place by mid-February?
29
I'm sure for $3.8 billion a lot will get done.
2
Plan?
What plan?
When has there ever been a plan that did not involve profit for Trump and his brood?
4
Hi..how does it take for results to come back for Covid-19?
Thanks,
Lorricav
2
@Lorricav - Depends how close and how backlogged the testing facility is. 24-hour turnaround time can and should be the standard, but we are a long ways from that. When/if hospitals are allowed to conduct the test on-site, like they do with the flu, test results could be in within hours.
1
It takes about 6h for results.
1
Very scary.
3
Stop panicking and live your life
9
@Nycdweller rather cavalier. My guess is you are under 50.
5
But Trump said the 15 cases would go to zero. This must be fake news. Or Obama’s fault.
59
8 billions dollars allotted to combat the COVID-19 virus when all that is required, according to the Reverend Mike Pence, is praying. And avoiding gay thoughts.
57
@Opinioned!
Does anyone know if coronavirus conversion therapy works?
2
Never fear fellow Americans.
As soon as Dear Leader Donald Trump, the most intelligent and most handsome man to ever grace this green earth is done with his Friday golf, he will take care of these numbers — via a Sharpie.
Very soon, the number of infected Americans will be down to zero.
38
Congress for years has been cutting down the federal workforce. About half if not more of CDC are contractors which means they cannot do government core work, which translates to deployment and other core government functions. There is deployment fatigue and fatigue in general dealing with emergency after emergency. NYT should look into how readiness has been affected by the reduction in workforce.
17
It is to late for containment. Most public health officials are only worried about moving the Epi curve to have a long slow burn vs a spike. A long slow infection will provide enough hospital beds for sick people, whereas a spike will overwhelm the health system. The only way to end this is to go through enough susceptibles that herd immunity kicks in. This is a new pathogen, it is free to move in a naive, susceptible, population freely.
13
Reality check: mathematically, there is currently 4/500,000 of 1 percent chance of getting coronavirus in the US. It’s Y2K all over again.
2
@GG
The 1918 Spanish flu epidemic had a 2% to 3% death rate.
Lower than COVID-19's current estimate of 3.4%.
12
@J Anders
Your estimate are wrong. When the final tally comes in it will be a tenth of that.
1
@GG Y2K wasn't an issue because companies and governments spent billions of dollars and years preparing. I know - I was one of them who was modifying software code 20 years ago. Your math is correct now. But very much wrong four weeks from now. And even more wrong eight weeks from now. This is not Y2k all over again, but we are not prepared.
4
To report that coronavirus cases "pass 250" is critically misleading. That is the number of infections confirmed by testing. Experts know for a certainty that the actual number of infections is much, much higher, and that the reason we don't have a better grasp on the actual number is the inexcusable and so far unexplained bottleneck in testing. The responsibility for that bottleneck lies with the Trump administration. To keep reporting artificially low numbers without noting the context for that artificiality is to provide unwitting p.r. coverage for Trump's failures.
56
While I am a medical doctor I am not an infectious disease specialist. No one should minimize the serious challenge it represents, especially to the old (me) with chronic illness (me) but the mass hysteria and panic are being fed by an irresponsible media that reports every case or suspected case. Yes, there are shortages but they are being addressed. There may be closings and changes in our daily lives and vacation plans but we will get through this. This is the year 2020, not 1917-18. I would recommend watching the task force in which the heads of the CDC, NIH and National Institutes of Allergy and Infectious Diseases report the facts as best they are known. Their reports are on television and one hears directly from Dr. Fauci and the others. They do not mince words nor do they feed on rumors and hindsight. The CDC website has all current recommendations. The politicization of this pandemic is despicable and only serves to add to the contagion of fear. The Corona virus is bad enough.
36
A sensible comment
8
@alan brown I am an infectious diseases physician. I no longer rely on the CDC, ever since they removed the line in the table where it listed the total number of patients tested. They tried to obscure the blunt truth that we are unprepared, in spite of WEEKS of knowing this virus is out there. I rely on the IDSA website, the WHO, the NHS in the UK and Ministere des Solidarites de la Sante from France.
20
There is no mass hysteria. There is no panic. There is no irresponsible media. Actual people are actually concerned to varying degrees, and have a right to know the latest numbers, whatever they may be. Many are being cautious. We won’t know how cautious is too cautious until we know the actual numbers, which are simply unavailable due to the nature of this virus. Many are still riding the subway, and one work group who had a chance encounter with a possible victim are working from home for a couple of weeks as a precaution (actual fact). Generalizations and put-downs serve no purpose.
10
Last year, when my family and I marched for science, there were only about 40 marchers, and it definitely seemed like overall the public's reaction to the march was that our concerns were overblown... but really I think that this is just the tip of the iceberg, and btw, the icebergs are melting too
:(....
17
More than 250? Fake news.
According to the President of the United States, we had 15 last month, "and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."
Time to get that "Mission Accomplished" banner back out.
14
@BC
You just a sharpie out, draw it around the US and bingo! No more flu!
Pence and his Mother are on the case .
3
@BC
“ Heck of a job Brownie” again.
Odd that both involved the worst, and second worst president.
2
I understand the flop with test kits and some other things.
At this point, at least local governments and stores should not let people hoard mask, sanitizers etc.
It’s ridiculous that’s there is a black market on Amazon for these things - these are essentials
3
O
n Amazon the prices have been allowed to Skyrocket! Shame! Is that the black market or just immoral price gouging?
A GP in New Zealand is saying to set up drive through clinics to test for the virus. Hopefully the government listens.
Drive through clinics would work well in the USA as you eat a lot of takeaways and burgers. Maybe Trump could offer free burgers for everyone tested.
14
If I didnt truly think the Federal Government incompetent, I might start to think there are nefarious reasons for the incompetence. Do they really want to know how many are infected and spreading it?
13
“Seasonal flu kills 100,000 every year in the US….”, I only have figures from Public Health England, but this statement appears to be UNTRUE.
2018 Flu figures for England (population 56 million [1]).
Confirmed influenza A+B types [2] cases: 3245, Deaths: 330, ICU admissions: 2924,
ICU case fatality rate: 9.3%.
2018 Confirmed influenza cases (with severe respiratory complications) admitted to specialist centres for extracorporeal membrane oxygenation (ECMO) treatment: 79.
Even given that the US population is 6-7 times bigger than England’s, these data do not suggest ‘100,000 deaths’ annually.
The ‘thousands of deaths’ usually being quoted are actually deaths ASSOCIATED with the flu season – not proven consequences of influenza virus infection. This is measured as the increase in baseline ‘all causes’ mortality observed at times that flu viruses are known to be active – usually winter.
The FluMOMO component of EuroMOMO’s mathematical modelling of European mortality (partly corrected for coincident hypothermia deaths) shows that for 2017/18 there were 26,498 deaths in England ASSOCIATED with influenza.
Whatever you make of these English figures, there’s no direct evidence that Covid-19 can be laughed off as ‘just like seasonal flu’. ‘Associated with’ is not the same as ‘caused by’.
[1] Population of whole UK: 66.5 million.
[2] including, but not confined to, H1N1 & H3N2 strains.
4
@nolongeradoc
Your analysis raises an interesting point. Many deaths are assumed but not confirmed to be caused by influenza. How many of those now - in our record flu season - are in fact COVID-19 deaths?
3
@nolongeradoc
People don't seem able to grasp that COVID-19's estimated mortality rate of 3.4% is 3400% higher than the flu's 0.1% mortality rate.
5
I would like to bring up the elephant in the room- what is the coronavirus fatality rate for sick people who receive no treatment because all of the hospital beds are full? I would imagine China has an idea of what that number is.
28
@LisaH
Exactly. You've hit the nail on the head. This is why my colleagues and I have been yelling about this for weeks.
4
I think the NYT should stop reporting numbers in the US until have effective testing. It could be in the thousands or tens of thousands. We have no idea.
11
The shortage of tests doesn't deal with the spread of the infection. Sending people home does. So Andrew Cuomo and Blasio need to send people home to prevent a major outbreak before is too late. If you are testing everyone, then it means that the disease has widely spread. Take action now and send people home. New Yorkers (downstate and upstate) need your leadership. We don't need your pointing fingers. You are the one who can declare a general quarantine.
6
A general quarantine order for NYC would instigating mass panic and hysteria like we have never seen before, would be unenforceable, and would cause an economic depression.
@Andy people can work out of home and can hunker down a few weeks home as they did in Wuhan. If people keep running about, WHO is warning that this is serious. So then you will see panic and economic depression for sure when the virus spreads widely and the economy goes south. Government needs to take steps before there is a full blown outbreak. Sorry but that’s just reality as per China and what WHO has said. We can do a quarantine now or wait for many to be ill and die.
1
As the national emergency rapidly unfolds, where is our fearless leader Trump? Heading to a fundraiser and a weekend of golf in Florida. Given his manifest incompetence, I think that's the most supportive thing he could do right now. The nation, however, is on its own. --sigh--
25
He is in Tennessee looking at the destruction from the tornados
Humans are homo sapiens at heart and we are presently being led around by our limbic system while our cerebral cortex remains at the mercy of raw emotion and fear. A little data as I write. South Korea has done the most extensive and accurate testing of all countries presently. There are approximately 6270 cases and 43 deaths. That is a mortality rate of .7%. That is higher than regular flu-about .14 %, but much lower than reports of 2-3%. Those 2-3% reports are almost certainly the result of faulty and sparse testing, especially in the U.S. A second point revealing the absurdity of some of the 'experts' advice. OK, so they all say 'masks are unnecessary, don't buy a mask." But then, every 'expert' then says 'if you have symptoms and test positive, you have to wear a mask.' If we are not allowed to buy masks and cannot find them even if we want one, how are we supposed to find a mask to wear if/when we actually need one? Oh, the joys of being a homo sapien.
3
@boji3
Your math would only make sense if all those people in SK had recovered. They haven't. You are counting active cases, but those patients still might die. The disease usually takes 2-6 weeks to run its course, with symptoms often getting increasingly serious as time passes.
Why assume you know more than the WHO and CDC?
If you are trying to reassure people, then all you are doing is sowing confusion.
Please stop! People would rather know what they are facing.
3
@Julian thank you for good points. But as for knowing more than ?? Fauchi in NEJM wrote last week that he feels the mortality rate is much lower as well. All the best.
@Julian South Korea has tested 140,000 people for the coronavirus. That could explain why its death rate is just 0.6% — far lower than in China or the US. That is headline from "Business Insider" yesterday written by Aria Bendix. I appreciate your interest in data- we should be on the same side of the rational divide in this case. All the best,
Trump's lack of credibility after 3 years and 15,000+ lies means no one believes him when he says he's rallying the forces to fight coronavirus.
When the POTUS is a narcissist who hates anyone offering a negative word about his policies or motives, then America is likely to learn actual difficulties and pitfalls of the federal government responding to a pandemic.
Congressional Republicans need to step into solving problems alongside Democrats sooner when seeing the POTUS failing at the helm. Instead Mitch et al refuse to do anything that might show Trump's weaknesses since it endangers their frail grasp on beltway political control. We The People and the United States of America suffer for Congressional Republican blind loyalty to Trump at times like this.
12
@Question Everything
The boy who cries "wolf". Or ,more appropriately, Chicken Little.
2
Remember Katrina and learn the lesson, the Federal Government will not or can not help you. State governments must get their acts together and proceed to protect their citizens.
People, STOP TRAVELING. Just stop. If not for your own sake then for the sake of your fellow human beings.
If it is suggested we all should be working from home then stay home. We people who can work from home need to set up go fund me stites to help those people who won't get paid survive. It is in your interests to keep people out of public to contain this.
The Federal Government is not capable of managing this . South Korea has drive through testing. We now have less than 300 confirmed cases in the entire country. Expect Wuhan here and plan accordingly for you and your families. The Federal Government is not able to help. Learn the lesson of Katrina.
11
@Debbie our governor is encouraging us to go out and live our lives as usually... oh ...wash hands.
not only to stay in office in close proximity but take crowded public transportation. at my company people are scared and some spoke up and were told it is not company policy . it is not that easy for people to work from home - that is not in many peoples hands.
because our NJ governor just thinks it is "flue on steroids".... it is "Let them eat cake" situation
2
By my calculations, Seattle is seeing a 16% mortality rate. Mainly because it hit that senior center. But, OMG!
7
@Cindy
More likely because we only know the numerator, not the denominator.
Now, if you had a system that could actually provide medical tests, it would be an enormous hep in reducing the death rate, even if the same number of people died.
1
Alex Michael Azar II is an American attorney, politician, pharmaceutical lobbyist, and former drug company executive who serves as the United States Secretary of Health and Human Services.
Good luck, America.
29
@J Anders
Azar is the man who took the price of mundane lifesaving cheap insulin to $800 a vial. BTW **Azar** means "Bad Luck" in Portuguese.
How comforted by this guy are we, America?
4
Watch and see if we are in a pandemic if Trump does not suggest "postponing the election for our "safety"
14
Indeed!! Election Day will be the day he tells anyone other than a republican to stay home!!
4
In the meantime, Trump who promised one million test kits would be available by today, has failed to provide them! Trump CUT the budgets of the CDC and NIH, dismantled Predict. The Trump administration has had over two months now to ramp up the production of tests kits, to start testing all Americans showing signs of respiratory illness! I suspect Trump really doesn’t want Americans tested, since THIS would give us factual numbers of how widespread Covid-19 outbreak is!
Trump is incompetent.
19
I Lived Through SARS and Reported on Ebola. These Are the Questions We Should Be Asking About Coronavirus.
by Caroline Chen
Pro Publica
March 5, 2020
https://www.propublica.org/article/i-lived-through-sars-and-reported-on-ebola-these-are-the-questions-we-should-be-asking-about-coronavirus?utm_source=pocket-newtab
9
@Lisa Simeone
This was an excellent article. Thanks for the link.
4
"New York City pleads for more tests as cases in the state jump to 33, with thousands under quarantine. A shortage of tests has ‘impeded our ability to beat back this epidemic’.”
So much winning!
You'll get tired of winning!
Gee, guess who said that?
16
We have to depend upon WHO given that our Officials are censored as to what they say.
9
@Philip W Check the IDSA website- Infectious Diseases Society of America. They have a ton of information that is free to non-members.
5
The photo of workers spraying disinfectant on the street--not on hand rails or door handles, but the dirty ground that only shoes and tires touch--is a great example of a highly visible but completely useless response.
22
@Jaron
Not a completely useless response for those who don't remove their shoes when they're home, which is significant. Funny, no one ever mentions shoe removal as a safety/preventative measure not only for the coronavirus but also to avoid all of the other disgusting things that are known to become attached to shoes.
1
I'm an educator in a low-income community in Colorado, 80 miles from our state's first confirmed case. Before I lean into panic and cynicism, I want to first commend my school district's communication and response to the community regarding Covid-19. They have not only provided up-to-date information regarding hygiene practices, case numbers and the scope of the virus in CO but also have been working with janitors to make sure the schools are being sanitized. Last week, before our first case was even confirmed they were emailing staff about what to do. What's disheartening, however, is my school district leadership has provided more information than the President of the United States.
I think it's apparent by now that federal management is not going to solve this crisis, which is an utter breakdown of the role of federalism (can you tell i'm a Social Studies teacher?). If my local school district can communicate better and more timely factual information than the federal government, I sincerely worry about the state of trust in our nation following this crisis.
22
My son is a student at Colorado State. They have been excellent at communicating with patents, students and staff concerning this virus for well over six weeks. Factual, informative, calm.
Meanwhile here in Atlanta, we’ve got President “it will miraculously go away” currently visiting the CDC. Photo op smoke and mirrors time, nothing more. Maybe the governor and health department in Colorado should step in and take over....
3
To watch South Korea efficiently test her people, even using drive-thrus, while the United States does nothing but make excuses, is comical and terrifying at the same time. It is also totally pathetic.
57
@FilmMD it may also be deliberate. Starting to look that way to me.
3
If I read one more comment to the effect of “We need to calm down. This is only killing the elderly and compromised.” I’m going to scream.
THINK before you post, people. Just think about what you’re saying. Just think. Please.
67
@BBB no one has older parents or Grandparents any more I guess.
Emergency funds are for, y’know, emergencies
Not for border walls
21
Wrong!! This virus hits Central America or Mexico, we will have untold millions rushing our border. MILLIONS. Then it is adios American taxpayers
2
@Nycdweller Trillions!
1
@Nycdweller
Mexico is far more likely to be infected by Americans than we are by Mexicans.
3
The advice in the NYT story about what to do if you're sick is less than helpful and full of contradictions. How do you get to the doctor if you don't own a car and shouldn't take public transportation or a cab? Fly? How can you wear a mask to the doctor's office if there are no masks to be found?
While the CDC, Azar, Pence, and Cuccinelli spend all day aiding Trump with his disinformation campaign (Everybody can get a test? Really?), it appears that the NYT is forced to make up its own recommendations.
20
i suspect the govt meaning this moronically criminal administration is hamhandedly has delayed test kit production because the last thing they want is for the people to have - in hand - a genuine real time accurate number of Americans infected w this virus.
God forbid we stop shopping because we are living in stupidworld.
19
I know this is going to sound unpopular but we need to go full China on COVID-19. Everything except the censorship.
8
You mean locking people up in their apartments, beating people up because they’re not wearing masks, shipping dead bodies to crematoriums with no proper investigation, spreading rumors the virus didn’t start in China? No thank you.
3
A few thoughts...
I wish we could leave 'politics' out of discussion of the coronavirus. I'm not the biggest fan of Donald Trump either, but there is only so much anyone can do to combat a threat that masquerades behind a facade of innocence. To wit: there is no easy path forward. Patience and understanding, please. Things are bad enough without all the rancor.
With the rising number of education institutions turning to online teaching rather than in-classroom, at least for the duration, how many will decide later that---hey!---this 'online' method is a heck of alot easier and cheaper than the real thing. Let's stay with it. Attend Harvard, without leaving your bedroom in Boise!
As bad as we may think we have it, take pity on the poor passenger on the Grand Princess in San Francisco, totally confined and quarantined to an INSIDE cabin.
And we think we have it rough.
6
@David Bartlett
So many of us have worked to convince this administration that cutting "waste and fraud" like the CDC's entire Infectious Disease Prevention team was going to result in much-more expensive consequences.
Yet they simply would not believe that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. How many (expensive) pounds of cure are going to be needed to fix what could have been prevented?
8
1) We don't have the data to know how many people have had the coronavirus. Therefore, the mortality rate is unknown -- we can only estimate.
2) we don't know the transmission rate. Wuhan is bigger in population than NYC and more densely populated. Most of the country, except places like NYC, aren't that densely populated and people don't use mass transit. Our experience here in terms of number of cases, could be much different than Wuhan simply on the basis of less population density and we know the importance of hand washing etc.
3) whatever the actual rates, we have to assess the reduction in coronavirus transmission from doing nothing to a complete shutdown. How much better would a full scale quarantine of the entire country do than people washing their hands, staying away from large gatherings and self-limiting social contact -- plus locking down our borders.
4) a US wide quarantine would destroy our economy. High tech companies where all workers can work remotely would survive, but many small businesses would likely go bankrupt and many people would lose jobs that wouldn't immediately come back. The travel industry would be destroyed - so the economic impact of a month long quarantine would be many times than 8% of GDP. So, any actions we take must take that into account. Sure if a full quarantine would save 1 million lives, quarantine. But what if it's only 1000 vs essentially people self managing?
2
So more tax cuts for those who don't need it. I guess that is where the 8.5 billion will go.
11
@Tim Lynch
That would be my guess as well, given that HHS Director Alex Azar's only "medical" experience is as a big pharma lobbyists and lawyer.
7
@Tim Lynch Bingo!
Just by comparison, the health systems across the developed nations are in a better position for surveillance and control of epidemics. As large and rich as the US is, our health system is fragmented and leaves huge segments of our population without any coverage. In a larger outbreak our healthcare system would easily and quickly become overwhelmed. Denial of the requirement for socialized healthcare is difficult to rationalize when faced with an epidemic. Testing in US has not even reflected a fraction of the population up to now. Virtually no surveillance of our population is being done. The numbers only reflect the sickest cases which have emerged on the public scene and their contacts. We have no idea how widespread the virus is. Epidemiologists are not able to give estimates of it's rate of spread or mortality.
11
How can we contain an outbreak if we don’t have testing capability to understand its breadth and depth? Spread is occurring in the U.S. way more rapidly than we see in the numbers. It’s unbelievable how unprepared we are, and the impact and deaths that will be direct result of poor planning.
26
@ Sarah: The reason there are so few testing kits, along with so little action by the Feds, is because Trump doesn’t WANT to know, either for himself or for us, how widespread this virus is. He knows he can kiss his chances of re-election goodbye if it turns out that the virus is widespread. He would rather go play golf and hold his hatefest rallies and pretend the whole problem doesn’t really exist. Sad!
2
South America recorded low cases, but I think Brazil and others countries have more cases of coronavirus than they claimed.
6
It is not a surprise where the virus has been found. These areas have good public health labs and I would expect these to be sentinal sites. The virus will not be found in certain states until it is way past the "tip of the iceberg" stage.
16
Nursing homes have a vested interest in not being perceived as incubators of communicable diseases. It would be a direct reflection on their management and staff and profoundly affect their bottom line if all their patients started dying and they couldn't get new ones.
7
Let's see how that $3.8 billion will be spent. If it's up to Trump, everyone will get what they want. Spending has never been a problem for him.
3
@AACNY
Would have helped if he hadn't slashed the CDC's budget by by 19% to 40% each year he's been in office.
Or fired their entire Infectious Disease Prevention team in 2018. You know, to get rid of "waste and fraud"...
7
Since Americans seem to be having a hard time distinguishing between the 0.1% mortality rate of the flu and the 3.4% rate of COVID-19, perhaps we should take out the decimals and just say the coronavirus has a 3400% higher death rate than the flu.
27
@J Anders It's way too early to claim a 3.4% mortality rate. Experts believe many more people have mild cases than are being counted and once that number is known, the mortality rate will drop substantially. I'm not saying too many people, still, will die, but it won't be 3.4% of people who contract the virus.
3
@J Anders
As mentioned below, you should not look at the 3.4% mortality rate as anything meaningful at this time, the woefully inadequate community testing is massively inflating the mortality rates.
I expect it to end up below 1% for Covid19, but not because of my "gut", like someone I'd rather not mention in this discussion, but by looking at cohorts with more extensive testing, e.g. the Yokohama cruise ship (0.85%) or South Korea (0.64%), as of todays numbers on the Johns Hopkins tracker (https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6).
3
@cbum
Your calculations of mortality rates make no sense because you assume that none of the "active" sick will die. That is not true. Many from the Diamond Princess or Korea are still in hospital or still not recovered, but your calculations assume they will! Heck, the first Italian infected - a 38yo marathon runner - is still in hospital.
According to a WHO study of 55,924 laboratory confirmed cases: mild cases recover in about 2 weeks; severe or critical cases clear in 3 - 6 weeks; and deaths occur between 2 - 8 weeks of first symptoms.
1
I note that Trump in the picture with this column looks extremely dire and worried, so he should be, as literally the lives of hundreds of millions of people are in his hands.
I hate to say this, but the UK Tory Government, have been much worse, than even Trump as they have taken zero measures to protect the UK population up until this week, when we have been subject to an onslaught of media propaganda simply to wash our hands. Cases of COVID-19 have jumped from virtually none to 160 in one week and the Johnson Government has moved from containment of the virus to delaying it, so the numbers of seriously ill people do not overwhelm the NHS.
However the Tories have cut 100,000 beds from the NHS in 10 years of brutal austerity, there are only 15 high dependency beds in the whole of the UK and the NHS because of the hostile environment created by the Tories post Brexit is tens of thousands of nurses and doctors short, because EU doctors and nurses are leaving the NHS in large numbers. The NHS is so underfunded and understaffed that many doctors and nurses retire early and are totally burnt out.
Johnson put forward what he thought was a great idea which was to coerce or possibly force retired doctors and nurses back to work. The Guardian newspaper was contacted by over a hundred retired medics and virtually all these retired medics could never envisage going back to the NHS because they had been burnt out and abused by their former NHS employer.
So much for this great plan.
12
We know President Trump could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and his base would still love him. Will they still love him when hundreds or thousands of Americans die - including their family and friends - due to his mishandling of the crisis? Probably, because Fox News will tell them it’s the Democrats fault, they’re trying to make Trump look bad.
29
If only we could have this kind of response to other very real crises facing us: climate change, and in the U.S., kids getting gunned down in their schools.
13
Remember China's refusal of a CDC team early on in this mess? Looking at it now, I think the CDC actually wanted to send a team to steal their technology. Sadly, China wouldn't have it and now we seem unable to figure out how to test.
4
@Pigsy Apparently America is no longer the best. China is the first country with the virus and need to respond it immediately with little knowledge about the virus and no country helped them. US had ample time to prepare when the virus first known in China. After a month, US cannot even perform adequate tests. Did trump say that he would make America great again? Trump Seeked to cut NIH and CDC Budgets, and MASD (Make America Sick and Die)!
4
Too much pride - which goeth before the fall.
@Pigsy this sounds like an unfounded conspiracy theory or a Russian troll. The CDC sent teams to different countries during the SARS, MERS, and Ebola outbreaks. It is standard operating procedure for the CDC to do so.
3
The administration is scrambling and I don't expect them to come out and say; "hey, we were caught off guard here." But I do expect them to do something more than what we've seen so far which amounts to a dumpster fire.
So far we have:
- A science denier in charge of a nationwide medical crisis. Someone who is ill-equipped both professionally and intellectually (I'm not kidding)
- Medical experts being muzzled
- A president who releases false information like he's handing out candy on Halloween
- Messaging that seems to be coordinated by a group rivaling the Three Stooges
- A president blaming market volatility on the Democratic debate (baffling)
- Leadership incapable of coordinating any effort that is comforting the American public (just see the equity markets and the lack of toilet paper on store shelves)
It's a disjointed mess being led by Super Don and his merry band of court jesters.
Nothing to see here folks ....keep moving along
16
@DavidF
You forgot this one:
Alex Michael Azar II is an American attorney, politician, pharmaceutical lobbyist, and former drug company executive who serves as the United States Secretary of Health and Human Services
10
@ J Anders
So you know who butters his bread
‘Nuff said
My doctor gave me a pneumonia shot last autumn which is likely to help minimize the effects of covid 19. Why don't US doctors offer this to people most at risk? They would just be taking care of the elderly and those with compromised immune systems. I know I got my shot free because of our health system but even with your system doctors could offer it at an affordable rate. It could even save a few lives. Hopefully, your government - state or federal - will get on this.
7
Because the Prevnar13/23 is for bacterial infection, not a virus.
6
Pull out all stops. Except travel bans between countries...
1
8 Billion for 250 cases. Healthcare at its best!
4
We haven't reached the inflection point of the epidemic. Fasten your seatbelts - we may be in for a bumpy ride.
4
Trump as presidential candidate in 2016 conjures up a non-existent threat to America and demands a wall on the Mexican border. Trump as President in 2020, when confronted with a real and visible threat to the lives of Americans in the form of a fast spreading virus, claims...there is no threat.
16
The catastrophic failure by US authorities to even provide adequate coronavirus test kits, over 2 months into the crisis, beggars belief--this is worse than "third world healthcare", it's a total system collapse in American public health that's terrifying the general public and investors (hence the stock market collapse) and crippling morale in the healthcare sector. Countries across the world--South Korea, France, China, Italy, Austria, the Netherlands--have been aggressively testing millions of people with WHO validated protocols, to help pinpoint and control the pandemic. Over 10,000 a day in Korea alone! Meanwhile, US doctors and nurses are reduced to begging for scarce CDC testing for patients who clearly exhibit the COVID-19 clinical picture and test negative for flu, pneumococcus or other classic pneumonia causes, having no recourse but to discharge them into the community without a diagnosis to likely spread the pandemic further.
Health care workers in particular are being hard-hit by this debacle. Many are showing worrisome respiratory signs and symptoms, but without the capacity to test, we have an impossible dilemma. If we self-quarantine without a confirmed diagnosis, we risk exacerbating an already frightening healthcare staff shortage tearing across the nation. Yet if we carry on and later turn out to be SARS-CoV-2 positive, we risk a calamitous spread of the virus to other personnel and non-infected patients. We need those test kits now! This is outrageous!
63
Thanks to trumps eggshell ego and arrogance, there is no concerted effort between the states and the Federal government. Even in a time of crisis, trump preaches lies and deviseveness. The gop props up a clown instead of calling for leadership. God help America.
10
Even if there IS a pandemic going on in November, I'm STILL planning to get out and vote.
14
If only we could mask ourselves and our nation to safeguard us against the poison that is President Trump.
8
Sure the government is at fault but so are citizens who ignore all warnings and go out and mingle. A single person infecting 9-10 others as it happened in Westchester is not a responsible behavior. People on the streets are still coughing and sneezing without covering their mouths, it's insane.
9
W.H.O. is urging to take actions.
our administration federal and local tells us to go about our life as this is just a "flue on steroids".
imagine what would have happened in Woohan, if people would just "go about their lives".
the proclamation that anybody can be tested is a lie. my daughter tested negative flue strep with cough and 103.7 fever - the hospital apparently did not receive the updated CDC protocol - it was not sent to them. it was only proclaimed on TV.
People in NY and NJ in extremely populous area are encouraged to take public transport and come to work even thou they can telecommute.
there is a hope that there might be seasonality to the virus and spring can slow down the spread.
why we are not receiving a message - if you can stay home - stay home.
it would at least somewhat spaced out the spread and reduced the burden on strained health services.
why is the government doing the opposite . is that so the virus takes its course swipes through the country the fastest so they can press the reset button sooner and go back to "fixing" the stock market ? all of this while keeping the infected numbers artificially low to be able to declare "containment".
2
Interesting stats...published today by the BBC
"The national health institute [of Italy] said the average age of those who had died so far was 81, with the vast majority suffering underlying health problems. Just 28% were women."
81 is the *average* age? Italy must have a significant number of very old people.
That more men than women smoke I'm guessing is the reason for the lower mortality rate among women.
3
Also,women have a stronger immune response than men.
1
That is true. Italy with second highest old age percentage after Japan.
2
It is the first time in a long lifetime that this reader is hearing that The World Health Organization has declared a very high risk of the spreading of an illness on a global basis, urging the governments of nations to take action now, and not tomorrow.
China is taking 'draconian' measures to contain "The Wuhan Pneumonia Virus", and it appears to have subsided for the time being.
America is not in 'panic mode' yet, but preparations are being made for this outbreak.
The virus does not flourish in the heat, and our children should expect early school spring break this year, where they continue to study from home by remote-control;
Dry throat discomfort, followed by a dry cough and high fever with chest pain, are some of the symptoms to be monitored and checked soonest with medical offices;
Nasal drip and a mucous cough are more symptomatic of a cold.
The virus does not last in the laundry heat, and clothes should be washed more often, placed in the dryer or in the sun.
Drinking hot water is another cautionary measure, ensuring hydration, it is good for one's health and slows the virus from entering the lungs.
Visiting homes for the elderly is discouraged for the time being, and for those of us employed, the government could request that the private and public sectors give their workers and employees more extended sick leave, with pay.
Public-Awareness is key; this is not a 'Hoax'; follow updates from W.H.O. and International Times coverage.
6
How do you know this virus doesnt flourish in the heat? There are a growing number of cases in Queensland (Australia) right now, and a smattering in other tropical places including Indonesia and Brazil. Pretty sure its warm in Hong Kong right now too.
1
@Laume,
You are correct in reminding commentating readers that these 'recommendations' need to be fact-checked by health care experts and W.H.O., before clogging the web with erroneous information.
Here are some tips from medical experts recently in China, where the outbreak is subsiding, e.g.:
'The Wuhan virus is not heat-resistant and will be killed at a temperature of 26-27 degrees. Therefore, drink more hot water, and tell your friends and relatives to drink more hot water to prevent it.
Go under the Sun. It has been cold recently, and drinking hot water is good for the body. Drinking warm water is effective for all viruses. Try not to drink ice, remember!
When the virus drops on metal surface, it will live for at least 12 hours. If you come in contact with any metal surface, wash your hands with soap thoroughly.
The virus can remain active on fabric for 6-12 hours. Normal laundry detergent should kill the virus. For winter clothing that does not require daily washing, you can put it out in the sun to kill the virus.
The most common way of getting infected is by touching things in public, so wash your hands frequently. The virus can only live on your hands for 5-10 mins, but a lot can happen in those 5-10 mins (you can rub your eyes. or pick your nose unwittingly)'.
And, for better information, subscribe to the daily NYT bulletin on Coronavirus.
Stay well, and thank you for coming in on the above.
Let's not forget, this administration is headed by corporate hacks who are only concerned about crises in terms of message control. You know how when the Deepwater Horizon disaster was gushing millions of gallons of crude oil into the Gulf Of Mexico and BP representatives were on TV talking about "containment" and whatnot?
6
"The Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention compiled a study which was based on 72,314 patient records and 44,672 confirmed cases of the coronavirus in Mainland China as of February 11, 2020."
"The paper found that the fatality rate gradually increases with age. For example, there were no deaths among children aged nine or younger while it stood at 0.2 percent for people aged between 10 and 39. It increased to 3.6 percent in the 60-69 age bracket before rising to 8 percent among those aged 70 to 79 and 14.8 percent among people in their 80s or older."
So good luck to all those elderly people going to Trump's rallies believing his "gut feeling" that this is really nothing.
6
It might literally take a march on Washington to get Trump to act . Just do everything Japan is doing , though most of the countries besides the United States are doing good jobs. Our strategy is basically wait till someone gets sick, then quarantine everyone they have come in contact with, I mean that’s what NYC is doing, it’s not bad, I mean sooner or later everyone will be in quarantine which will slow the virus, but much more can be done, like I say just do everything Japan is doing. And test kits would be nice.
Let us pray that some scientist somewhere in this world of 7 billion people can figure something out.
If Trump doesn’t act soon, he must be forced to act, if even Wall Street crashing and people dying doesn’t move him , then this might take divine intervention.
2
it wouldn't surprise me at all if trump took most of that coronavirus scheduled money for his mexican wall. is that money going directly into a virus fund, for which we, as citizens, can know how much of the money is going to its designated destination? if not, don't be surprised to learn where it ends up.
4
A study in the New England Journal of Medicine says, “The new Coronavirus is not heat-resistant and will be killed by a temperature of just 26/27 degrees. It hates the Sun.”
Good news, this crisis might go away soon and sunshine still is the best disinfectant.
Not so good news, what do you say to those deniers who argue global warming is a good thing?
Most respiratory viruses are not resistant to heat or desiccation. Respiratory virus strategy is to infect a host as soon as possible. It does not follow the same strategy as an enteric virus.
@NativeSon
That makes sense.
Considering 27 c is 80 f and our normal body temperature is 37 c (99 f).
If that were true, the new Coronavirus would not survive in a normal person with a pulse. Which sadly is not the case.
Thats ridiculous. This is a brand new virus and all of the actual epidemiologists say they are still learning about this one. They don’t know: no mortal knows. Meanwhile, notice how cases in tropical Queensland, Australia keep going up. There are cases in other tropical places also.
2
Personally, I think we all pretty well know why nothing was being done and when we look back at this time will instead be kicking ourselves for having let our cowardice prevent us from doing anything about it.
4
China we keep bashing had all schools closed. Guess what? They kept on teaching via online. Are we able to do this on a large scale???
3
@Edna
Considering that most people have gotten the virus from family member this is a great idea.
Plenty of time to get to Mar a Lago and attend some fundraising events this weekend. Maybe get a round or two of golf in as well.
At least we know what his priorities are.
11
Can’t help wondering whether the shortage of test kits (either due to poor planning or by intent) helps keep the coronavirus infection numbers low in the US... just as the Chinese have definitely under-reported those who were sent home or died before any tests could be performed on them.
No testing = no confirmed case.
5
Curious to see if he holds one of his rallies during this outbreak.
5
@ellie k.
The Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention found that, among 2,314 patient records and 44,672 confirmed cases of the coronavirus in Mainland China as of February 11, 2020, the death rate was 0% among children aged nine or younger, 0.2% for people aged between 10 and 39, 3.6% in the 60-69 age bracket, 8% percent among those aged 70 to 79 and 14.8% among people in their 80s or older.
And that was when the death rate was pegged at 2.3%.
World Economic Forum
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/coronavirus-covid19-cov2-wuhan-china-virus-disease-risks-fatality-rates/
1
“We have contained this, I won’t say airtight but pretty close to airtight,” - Larry Kudlow 2/25/2020
13
For Trump I guess it is an $8.3 billion coronavirus hoax. Nothing to worry about here...
9
Where’s the leadership? In times like these, a nation (ours) needs its elected leaders to step up.
We need a constant flow of information on a daily basis as this is a fluid, dynamic situation.
Where are you, Mr. President? Hiding behind your Twitter account? Why are you hiding?
11/3/20. VOTE.
11
@Guitar M
The leadership is there. One just has to be able to see past one's anger. At this point, Trump's critics would be caterwauling if he found a cure himself for this virus.
2
This might be what finally does away with all us boomers everyone can’t wait till we kick off and die so we stop hogging all the stuff we’re apparently hoarding from newer generations. Yup, only a worry if you are old and sick. No worries. You should all be celebrating.
5
@MJM Thank you for saying what the rest of the generations were already thinking.
2
@Michael Anthony - Speak for yourself. As the child of lovely and considerate boomer parents, one of whom has an underlying health condition, you most certainly do not speak for me.
5
Trump policy = The more testing - the bigger the numbers. Wink, wink. And Reagan refused to utter the word AIDS
6
@charles almon
Right now Freddie Mercury is probably wondering why we never learn.
2
Trumps incompetence is literally putting thousands of lives at risk, again. What will it actually take for his cult to see what an abject failure this man really is? He is the definition of a loser, but somehow he persists.
12
Get out of the way Trump! Trump agenda: Making sure all messages go through the White House, discontinuing a Bush-era program expanded under Obama—called “Predict”—that monitored the threat of animal-born diseases to humans, gutting the CDC, lying about the number of cases, encouraging people to go to work, helping Fox to generate false updates.
Confusion and misdirection, thy name is Trump.
11
I believe that Trump ordered that testing kits needed to detect the virus be delayed. If Korea can test 15,000 people a day we should be able to test thousands more per day.
The delay of the kits will ultimately prove to cost lives that could have been saved.
4
@KJS This is a puzzle. CDC is certainly short staffed, but they know how important testing is to containment. Their failure to deliver test kits and serious limitations of who can get tested sounds suspicious.
9
"As of noon on Friday, fewer than 100 people had been tested for the coronavirus in New York City over the past month, according to the city’s Department of Health, even as concerns grew that the virus was circulating largely undetected."
Wow. This is a major failure on the part of the CDC and entire Trump administration to coordinate a response to this crisis.
I have a feeling that in a few weeks, as cases explode, we will look back on this time and wonder why more was not being done.
18
When companies like Amazon and Facebook tell their employees to “work from home,” that is catastrophic for the small businesses in Washington that surround their headquarters. When the CDC warns those with cold or flu like symptoms to stay home from work, many will get no sick leave. When schools close, children go hungry and their parents will have to decide between a pay check and their children’s welfare. And when Trump says to “go to work” even if one feels sick, it is contemptible.
For Kudlow to come out and say let’s bail out the travel industry but does not put an economic plan in place to shore up working families and small businesses, it is just morally reprehensible. This administration knows absolutely nothing about how to manage a crisis. Worse, they have politicized it. The rest of the world is comparing our government’s response to Iran and that is truly frightening.
20
@Anonymous
Socialism for corporations, austerity for individuals.
It’s the American way.
I would appreciate seeing all numbers of cases of Influenza A and B so far this flu season by each state; as well as all hospitalizations and deaths. Yes different but perhaps educational to larger picture regarding fearing the unknown.
2
@R.Heller
Most adults have some immunity to the flu.
None of us have ANY to coronaviruses, except perhaps a few survivors of MERS and SARS.
5
@R.Heller Your inquiries can be easily answered with a quick google search.
Meanwhile, save this comment somewhere so you can look back on it in a few months and remember downplaying a pandemic.
3
You can find weekly flu summaries and stats, with maps, on the CDC’s website.
1
Science and technology is not an instant response to a need. It's called research then production. Anybody who has worked in the field knows that instant perfect results are suspect. Sort of like NYC government........
Thanks NYT for keeping us posted on the latest progress of this disease. It seems so highly infectious. We should all take care and help each other out when necessary.
4
Trump’s lie: “They’re moving along very quickly. All of the pharmaceutical companies are moving along very quickly.”
Dr. Fauci, Director of NIAID: “Very soon, we’ll be sticking the first person with the vaccine. But I want to caution everybody: That’s only the first stage of the development of the vaccine. The whole process is going to take a year, a year and a half at least.”
8
Maybe this will be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back. Maybe this pandemic will finally expose the full brutality of the US healthcare system.
Even insured possibly sick people will not get tested, due to fear of staggering medical bills and policies with huge deductibles.
My mind reels at what the uninsured will do to survive this public health catastrophe.
And all this will play out against the backdrop of the SCOTUS contemplating the final destruction of the imperfect, though better than nothing, Affordable Care Act.
My friends, fasten your seat belts and hunker down, this is going to get very ugly indeed.
16
Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, director general of the World Health Organization. “This is not a time for excuses. This is a time for pulling out all the stops.”
We agree. But what, exactly, does that mean? Different groups are working 24/7 on developing vaccines, on producing tests, on making masks. Public health authorities are tracking down the exposed and their contacts. The public is aware (and maybe panicking), but is washing hands, self isolating, etc.
What else?
3
US cases are low because we are not testing anyone. 600 tests for the whole country.
15
The USA is supposed to be a superpower and used to lead the way in solutions to virus and scientific research. Someone needs to write an article tracing the lack of funding for government departments that invent these new viruses and medical research. Lots of experts warned Trump about cutting back in this area.
The world is having to work together to discover a vaccine BECAUSE the USA isn't up to par as a superpower with its scientific research and funding in that area. How's that tax cut for the one per cent panning out now! The Republican government is penny wise and pound foolish. And just another thing that needs to pointed out to these overpaid politicians - the government is taxes and without taxes the government would not exist or have these government departments that discover vaccines for new viruses in the world.
8
The flu epidemic in the USA this year has infected at least 30 Million people in roughly 16 weeks. That is 1.8 MILLION per week. The C-Virus has afflicted 100 thousand people in 8 weeks. 12,000 per week. Why the fuss?
1
@Steve Biasini
Namely the 3400% higher death rate from COVID-19 than the flu.
8
@J Anders That assumes we actually KNOW how many cases are out there, good luck on finding an accurate number for that. Thousands and probably many thousands that never knew they had it....
3
Too bad we were slow at the switch that we have a shortwave of masks, alcohol wipes and gel ( can’t wash your hands on a plane without it ), test kits, emergency beds in some areas, and CDC rules changes that would not permit everyone in the nursing home in Washington to be immediately tested after patient zero (how stupid is that ). But our President is sad because he isn’t getting credit for all the great things he’s done and how we are prepared “for any situation”. Like telling people to go to work to get better, that airplanes are perfectly safe (viruses “live” on surfaces at least 48 hours and planes are cleaned daily), and he has a “hunch” that it isn’t as bad as others think and it will magically go away.
I have to praise VP Pence for taking charge and letting medical experts answer questions at his first press conference.
Pray like it’s up to God but work like it’s up to us.
3
Why the fuss?
Going overboard to protect ourselves from the Co V 2 virus? Why read this update or bother with facts?
Yes, some sick "people go to work and they get better". Criticism of the White House slow motion is termed "a hoax", cheered by the ill informed.
So why worry?
Because we are near defenseless. Up against the wall, from this viral mutation which is NOT "corona flu" Trump claims. That notion serves his narrative hoping to prop up his poll numbers and the markets for another day but blowing off the potential severity of this epidemic is dangerous and irresponsible long term strategy. But he can't see it.
Trump suffers from "narcissistic thought disorder". It leads him to believe that he knows it all resulting is his numerous errors of fact, like a child, while contradicting those educated in complex sciences.
America's for profit hospital model does maximizes return on capital by restricting capacity. Consequently hospitals running full in winter have minimal room for an unexpected bump in traffic. We need to buy time.
Given that testing, ventilators and hospital rooms and providers are reported by experts to be severely restricted, our only protections are social distancing, quarantines and common sense sanitation.
A casual approach risks shutdown of basic services, like a Katrina meltdown, if we can't slow this epidemic which is why it's no hoax. I wish it was.
Trump knows not and is a fool.
Shun him and keep reading our free press.
8
My friend returned from Italy last week to New York. He now has a fever, and the NY Public Health service is refusing to test him, saying he's not sick enough. He's been staying home voluntarily, but no one has asked him to.
So I am taking that to mean that we have WAY more cases in the US than are being reported. This is ridiculous.
21
@AmyV As someone with family and dear friends in NYC, I say this somberly: there is no way that NYC, with its dense populous and frequent international travelers, doesn't have hundreds if not thousands of cases. How could it not?
1
What a way to manage a pandemic!
Chinese will not tell what they know.
We don't even know what we don't know.
3
@SridharC
There also seems to be a pandemic of blame all over the world as well.
1
The Russians are spreading disinformation , yet doing a better job trying to contain the virus, or is this a hoax, fake news? Can we learn from Putin's leadership? Just a question for clarification, has Putin blamed Obama somewhere along the line?
1
“Fake! Everything is fake!” We would do well to listen to the Chinese protesters.
1
It’s about time. Grandma got called in for one coughing her head off!
W.H.O. Chief Warns It’s ‘Time to Act’
so does this mean he is ready to finally declare this to be a pandemic?
heal thyself physician!
2
Well I do not think: that „Europe and the US struggle to contain the virus“. Europe is in contrary to the US doing everything! they can to contain this virus.
US? Not at all! Shame on you all!
1
Really, Europe is containing coronavirus? Not if you look at the number of cases....
1
Tell that to the Oregon Health Authority. This is the agency in charge of things here. what a joke!!! As of yesterday the refuse to increase testing even though the still-adequated CDC protocols have changed to allow it. i couldn't believe my eyes regarding the differences in response from Washington State . I've written emails and talked with doctors since i got sick last week with Flu-type A and have shared here my experiences, all dreadful and shocking. Oregon's politicians will be held accou8ntable, including the Governor who can demand more action but hardly a whisper coming from her either. Proactive? A word these people treat like the plague!! https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/coronavirus-in-italy-fills-hospital-beds-and-turns-doctors-into-patients/2020/03/03/60a723a2-5c9e-11ea-ac50-18701e14e06d_story.html
1
@lou andrews misinformation, the OHA is being hamstrung by Trump, and Kate Brown is leading a truthful effort, not like the lies that Trump’s telling.
1
All this communal living like the EU and no one taking leadership is going to ruin the world. Back to the days of closed borders and strong leaders that lead. Humans have become blithering non-thinkers by going communal in all aspects instead of developing their own sovereign nations self interest and independent thinking. One world government - what a joke! Lack of inventors and scientific discoveries because of lack of individualism and sovereign nation. Globalism is one big crock that eliminates lack of funding in your own nation to foster budding scientists and inventors with sovereign government backing.
1
President Trump NOW IS GOING to visit the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. He will be visiting after he goes to Tennessee to see the devastation caused by the tornado in Tennessee. Many lives have been lost there and he wants to pay his respects. Contrary to what the haters say, he does care.
I submitted a similar comment a few hours ago which has not been posted. Please post. Thank you.
1
@KMW
Trump has slashed the CDC's budget every year since taking office. Including firing its entire Infectious Disease Prevention team in 2018.
Nice of him to go pay his respects now.
14
Who cares? Trump doesn’t care? He cares only about himself and no one else and it is astounding to me that his base is so delusional about him. My guess is once he arrives at the CDC who will proclaim that all is well, he has a hunch this will all be over by the end of the weekend....he will do everything he can to deflect, deny, and cast doubt. No leadership, just self interest to the detrimental our country.
6
Your beloved Trump, stable genius that he is, also proposed a significant cut to the CDC right before the Coronavirus epidemic blew up. Brilliant planning on his part as it’s pretty obvious that the CDC was already under prepared. This is going to be Trump’s Katrina moment. Another example of why, when it comes to Trump, haters hate for good reason.
8
"a quarter of a million Germans will die of the virus? Please check your facts, you are probably off by several orders of magnitude
5
I think the world wide response to this new virus has been really great.
Considering that less than .0014% of the world has been infected, and even though over 96% of known cases recover, I think that world governments and health organizations have been taking this extremely seriously.
Like any new and unpredictable situation, there are going to be mistakes. Test kits are going to malfunction, people are going to hoard supplies, etc.
But schools have been closed, transportation systems are being sanitized, vaccines are even pursued ! I think we are doing just fine.
There are reasons to believe that more people than they know have been exposed, which means the death toll is even lower than reported.
Three thousand people have died of the corona virus. That is less than the number of people who die of heart disease every 48 hours.
3
@Neil
You can take it up with my great-grandfather, who died in the 1918 Spanish flu epidemic. Which had a mortality rate of between 2%-3%.
7
The administration was quick to ban flights from China, but has done nothing about flights from Italy. Many of the covid-19 cases now being diagnosed in the US stem from travel to Italy. Even now, there is only a travel advisory warning Americans not to travel TO Italy.
Why the different treatment? US airlines were affected by the China ban as they would have been on a ban on flights from Italy. There seems to be another message here.
13
@Dee:
Explanation: POTUS doesn't have a clue what is going on. Remember, among other stupid things he's said, he said the "15" cases would be down to zero within a day or two.
2
People have been advised to wash their hands and use hand sanitizers, among other precautions, to lessen the chances of becoming infected, and to help contain the Coronavirus.
QUESTION: Price gouging of hand sanitizer is rampant and acts counter to public health needs.
What is the federal government doing to help increase the availability of this critical item?
16
Good point. I bought the equivalent of a 10 pack of N100 masks (FFP3) about two years ago for roughly $23.00 and I looked to see what they cost today—I was shocked to see well over $100! That’s clearly price gouging! The internet powerhouses like Amazon, eBay, etc should put a stop to it world wide. The etailers selling like this should be bannend for at least six months. They are not the original manufacturers; they are just taking advantage of the situation.
4
@Oceanviewer Trump will do nothing. Business making money is the GOP mantra. You can bet when Trump met with Big Pharma this week they laid out plans to make buckets of money
4
I guarantee it's FAR more than 250 people. I live in Seattle, and work not far from the center of the outbreak.
I'm at home with a fever and a cough and so on, and I've spoken to the COVID-19 health line. They told me that I might have it, I might not (it could be bronchitis or flu), but since I have no underlying health issues I should just self-quarantine, drink lots of liquids, and when my fever has been gone for 72 hours I can go back to work. They do not have enough tests to test me. My doctor has not even returned my phone calls and emails, they're so overwhelmed.
They also told me that if I WAS diagnosed with COVID-19, they'd tell me to self-quarantine for 14 days. But since they can't test me, that doesn't apply....nevermind that they can't/won't test me.
If I have bronchitis, I need to go on antibiotics, but I can't get an appointment to be checked out for that, so I'm relying on hot tea, rest, and ibuprofen to make myself better.
This is absolutely ridiculous.
I'm a teacher at a large high school. The school has so many teachers like myself out right now that they couldn't find subs to cover the classes, so my colleagues are using their prep periods to cover other classes such as mine. I assume when I go back to work, likely on Monday, the same will be true for me.
What. A. Mess.
131
@Kristina:
Stay safe. Hope you don't have CV. But you sound as though you know what to do.
Very frustrating indeed.
13
@Kristina
Bravo to you for maintaining such a brave face in the midst of such historic negligence and malfeasance in the midst of the worst public health crisis in at least a century. I can only imagine what it must be like for teachers right now, facing both high risk for exposure and the fear about potentially passing SARS-CoV-2 on if they are exposed, yet left in the dark due to the lack of available test kits to even ascertain if they are affected. We in the healthcare community are facing similar stonewalling, with morale crashing as the realization dawns that COVID-19 is already at pandemic level throughout the US, yet we lack the means to even quantify it.
South Korea is testing over 10,000 people a day now, China is testing millions, Italy, Austria and France test thousands a day, and the best the US can do is a few dozen? This is beyond outrageous, it's a permanent stain on our country's reputation that makes us into a virtual Third World country in the eyes of the world, one that I fear we'll never be able to erase. And yet still the blundering continues and we, on the front lines, are left unprotected.
16
@Claire I recognize that I'm one of the lucky ones: I have health insurance and sick leave, and last weekend I stocked up on basics for home so I have food, tissues, ibuprofen, TP, hand soap etc. I am lying around the house in flannel PJs, alternating between reading the NYT, The Seattle Times, and watching Netflix. It could be a lot worse for me.
But I'm thinking of low paid workers who do not have the luxury to stay home when they're sick. Given how notoriously low paid restaurant workers are, I don't think I plan to go out to eat for quite some time after I'm well.
And I'm so disappointed by the way we're "running" this pandemic, publishing numbers like 250 as if they meant something. That number seems like a joke to me, given my own observations of my community.
Thanks for your kind words - please pardon my rant! I am, indeed, quite frustrated.
20
The number of cases by itself is irrelevant: the important number is the number of deaths associated with the infection.
The other thing that needs to be repeated, over and over again, is that for the majority of people infected the disease is merely asymptomatic or modest.
The people who are dying are, for the most part, older people with underlying serious systemic medical conditions such as lung disease, heart disease, malignancies, or diabetes.
The worldwide panic is unfortunate and unnecessary: education, caution, and precaution are important.
8
@Bob
The mortality rate from COVID-19 is 3.4%. That is lower than the 1918 Spanish flu.
And 34 times higher than the rate from annual flu, which is 0.1%.
Decimal points matter.
10
@Bob : You are missing an important part of the problem here. The healthcare system is already overwhelmed. There's a shortage of beds, doctors, and ventilators -- a shortage that has only been exacerbated by a bad influenza season.
Just a few extra patients who need care and ventilators will overwhelm a hospital. And then what? If a lot of sick people come in at once, there won't be the necessary support to keep all of them alive.
Remember how hospitals in Wuhan had to turn people away? And then some died at home? That's what we're potentially looking at here.
Then factor in that it's just a matter of time before the doctors get sick -- and then quarantined. And then what? Who staffs the ERs and the hospitals?
It's not "unnecessary" panic to take precautions to slow transmission, as that will both help mitigate the problem of healthcare system overload and delay the inevitable for some folks until there is either an anti-viral cure or a vaccine.
7
@J Anders
The reported numbers are certainly incorrect. I would wager that the number of infected people is in the many millions - and that most people have had a modest cold or no symptoms at all.
It will take several years to find out the true numbers.
Yes - decimal points do matter, especially if you are on the wrong side of such.
3
There's no question that the lack of testing in the US is a Trump administration strategy. If you don't test, you can claim you don't have any cases; if you don't have any cases, the stock market will go back up; if the market goes back up, Trump will be re-elected. Or so they think. In reality, the markets are not reacting well to the lies and cynicism of the administration.
40
The number of confirmed cases outside of China has been doubling every four days for the past month or so. If this continues, there could be 20 million by the middle of April.
14
When it comes time to test a vaccine, I suggest the US Senate as the test group. They're mostly old, so comprise the group most needing a vaccine. And it's time they actually had some skin in the game.
87
250 cases - You ain't seen nothin yet.
The price for playing ostrich by refusing any community testing unlinked to China for 2 months will be a stunning increase in documented cases as soon as testing ramps up nationwide.
Given the report on the molecular analysis of isolates from Washington State I strongly suspect the SARS-CoV-2 Coronavirus has been circulating in the US for several months already, creating cases of the "Flu".
On the other hand, more widespread testing should also increase the denominator used to determine severity and mortality rates, which I expect to end up below 1%.
30
I believe this is the most likely result as well.
3
I traveled to Seattle, WA twice beginning 3 weeks ago. Then to Vancouver, BC and a week later to northern California.
A week an a half after my first Seattle stop, I developed a cough and began to feel as though I had a cold. By last weekend (just over 2 weeks after Seattle), I felt like I had the flu.
I called my doctor's office on Monday, was told there were no appointments and was sent to the local hospital's lab for a flu test and chest x-ray. The flu test was negative, but on Tuesday they entered a diagnosis of "acute bronchitis" in my chart. I called back and asked about a coronavirus test, but they said I "didn't meet the criteria" and to call back next week if I was still sick.
If I don't meet the criteria, folks, NOBODY is being tested. I have self-isolated the last half of this week, but I was around thousands of people in the two weeks prior. I hope you weren't one of them....
309
@J Anders I live in Seattle, work a few miles from the center at the heart of the outbreak. I too have symptoms, and they don't want to test me, as I don't meet the criteria either. They agree I might have it, but said there weren't enough tests for me.
I was sick two weeks ago (fever, cough, etc.), and then went back to work when the fever was gone; the fever came back on Wednesday and I've been home since then. Was I spreading disease in between? I have followed all medical advice given, but given their refusal to test me or even to see me in person, I suspect the worst.
I find this ridiculous in the extreme. 250 cases is laughable. I've seen the absentee data for my school for staff and students, and we're just one location. I think this thing is huge and the numbers are lies.
So frustrating!
39
I hope you feel better soon. And I hope it’s just bronchitis!
You’re right. They don’t know what they’re doing.
19
@J Anders The first US patient who died did not meet the testing criteria even while being hospitalized, and only after UC Davis put its foot down was that person tested, but unfortunately it was too late.
Today doctors in theory can write a test for anyone, but as any doctor will tell you, there are no testing kits available. Even at Diamond Princess cruiseship they only tested 40 people out of 3,500 -- and 21 of those people came out positive.
2
Help me out here, doing some preliminary math here using US CDC flu statistics only 5-20% of the population are estimated to get flu each year and less than 2% require hospitalization. In comparison, 50% of the population is estimated to get CORONAVIRUS and 20% of that requiring hospitalization. THIS IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE.
26
@Lilia Rivera
Where did you get that 20% hospitalization rate? I’ve been looking for that rate and have been unable to find it.
1
@Lilia Rivera
People don't seem to be able to grasp that the 0.1% mortality rate of the flu is 34 times less than the 3.4% rate of coronvirus.
Lack of basic math can be dangerous.
2
@Lilia Rivera With all those patients and not enough resources, who will decide who gets a hospital bed? Who is placed on a ventilator?
2
Listening to excerpts of Trump's conversation with Sean Hannity on Wednesday evening and then comparing them to the warning from the W.H.O. is a sad commentary on just how quickly the United States has fallen from a leadership position on the world stage. Once we were considered the preeminent authority on matters such as this, we are now not even ignored. We are disbelieved.
85
@Tom Q
It's been clear from the beginning of this outbreak (if it wasn't apparent from the start of Trump's term) that he is concerned solely with whatever affects his reelection.
We should have known when he became the first president to declare his next campaign the day after taking office.
12
@Tom Q
Yes, it's sad that brownnosing is a multiplying factor in this pandemic.
But then, what did you expect, given this president and his acolites?
From the start all of Trumps responses to the Virus have been attempts to minimize the effects of the virus. We don't want our leaders to spread panic, but we also don't want our leaders to promote blue sky scenarios that are not data based facts. I shuddered when Trump stated that he had "hunch" that the Virus was going to just miraculously fade away. It reminds me of the tobacco companies attempt to pour cold water on the factual science that their product caused cancer.
33
@KJ Peters
I have a hunch that I am going to have a cup of coffee right now. At least I know that to be true..reasonably.
We are burdened with a President who knows nothing but thinks he knows everything.
I choose to listen to scientists and health experts. Thank goodness we have them.
3
Start by offering free drive-through testing for ANYONE with symptoms, even mild symptoms. Eliminate copays, deductibles and all financial burden for testing, treatment and medications. Insurers should not be allowed to profit from this outbreak. Employees must be allowed paid sick days and work from home. These are all steps other countries have taken to stop the spread. The fear of financial ruin and inability to afford medical care will be the number one reason this thing spreads and kills... followed by ignorance (hygiene, herd immunity) of the masses.
59
I teach high school in an affluent Boston suburb. We are currently being told that "Our students and teachers who have travelled on school trips are NOT to be considered a risk... This includes students and staff who have travelled to Italy, Spain, France or Switzerland." Seriously? You know this how? Authorities, local, state and federal, need to stop this very destructive pattern of irresponsible misinformation. I shudder to think what this could turn into.
116
@Tired
Also a teacher in a private school. We just cancelled all school trips and on Tuesday are having a mandatory meeting to train teachers in how to hold on-line classes, should that be necessary. Our headmistress has taken a very factual, proactive and calming approach, but is clearly also taking this very seriously.
That said, these are new steps and we did have students and teachers in Seattle when the outbreak happened and none have been tested or quarantined. And we have a French teacher back from France who also was not tested.
We are already posting record absentee numbers from various bugs going around, so we're already a vulnerable population (a teacher and students were hospitalized for flu this winter).
I'm old school...an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I think sooner rather than later schools should begin to take a hiatus. Few places are more potentially infectious. For one thing, ours already needs to be decontaminated just on the grounds of flu.
The only good news is that thus far (and I cannot emphasize enough how quickly this could change) it seems both far less fatal and less infectious than SARS, MERS, and the 1918 flu.
It remains to be seen how it plays out, but Wuhan has now gone a day with no infections for the first time since the outbreak began. But let's remember, they imposed strict testing and, most important, very strict quarantines. If we're serious about curtailing this, we need to do the same.
24
Indianapolis just announced it’s first diagnosed case of Covid 19. The person attended an event in Boston and returned to Indy on Wed. Had a sore throat, cough and low grade fever. Contacted the health department who arranged to go to a local hospital for testing. All protocol were followed (used separate entrance, did not come in contact with others except hospital staff). Was also notified that some others who attended the conference had received a positive diagnosis.
9
Our university just asked faculty to think about ways to work around face to face instruction. This kind of divergence in practice happens when we have no intelligent national leadership.
2
This is just an enquiry to the German Health Ministry .
Yesterday, March 5 , there was an article in the New England journal of Medicine where what appears to be the first proven case of European Coronavirus was detected in Munich Bavaria in January . Several people were infected from having had business relations with a Chinese National .
The article explains in details the entire case .
In February the infection spread to several northern italian regions and it has been proven that the genoma of the German Coronavirus is the same of the Italian , French etc .
My question to the German Health Ministry
“ was the WHO , the other European countries and rest of the world made aware of this infection in Munich ? “
It is extremely important to read the NEJOM article to get to the root of this epidemics.
Thank you .
15
inter nos, the first case in Germany was extensively covered by all German media, even before the test results confirmed the infection. The man was tested after a businesswoman from China, who had visited business partners in Germany, started to show symptoms. She informed the company, which then informed the authorities. The persons (plus their families) who had contact to the businesswoman were identified and tested (and quarantiened). If all media in Germany had all the information immediately (you can google the coverage of that day), how would the WHO not know about it.
Looking at the world covid19 map, it occurs to me to wonder why the numbers are distributed so. Japan and Korea can be explained by the number of casual tourists and close business ties to China. Iran stands out oddly. Italy again is a must see for anyone on the planet.
The US has tourism from China but also educational and business ties.
Why India with no reported cases seems odd. Perhaps universal health care and a history of dealing with communicable disease?
Seems this could be a wake up call for everyone and especially the health industry. Pandemic response should be much better next time if we learn from this one.
8
No testing = No cases = No action.
CDC and HHS knew about the outbreak in China in January and yet did nothing to get testing for the virus in the pipeline. We are two months behind the curve.
Also, there is a time lag of about two weeks between diagnosis and outcome, morbidity statistics are skewed by both bad endemic data and timing calculations.
In terms of managing this crisis, USA is flying blind, still. By design or incompetence, you pick.
3
@BillH
India is actually reporting 31 cases today:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/coronavirus-in-india-what-is-happening-and-what-you-should-know/articleshow/73978271.cms
I think what you are seeing is the political need and ability to test for the virus. Russia?
It would be nice to know what other countries are spending on the prevention of the virus and how busy they are in finding a cure. Or is the US the major contributor to the safety of the world?
4
@Rock Winchester
That analysis is more likely to show the U.S. spending far less per capita than a lot of other countries.
Why is Cambodia capable of testing thousands of people from a cruise ship, but we can't manage the same?
Is the U.S. actually still a first-world nation?
16
@Rock Winchester
The US is spending far less than Italy, a country that's much smaller. Heck, we haven't even made tests! Germany made the WHO test, China and Singapore are working on an antibody test.
3
There is already the possibility to produce a synthetic corona virus. Created in Switzerland.
Worldwide labs have already ordered and work on medication and vaccines.
That’s it, I am getting no intelligent information, old people who get this have a magnified death rate of 10%, and who knows if they are dying of the virus or the heroic efforts to destroy the virus.
I have decided to learn from the bats. I was mulling and realized, at least in first world countries, children eat like bats. Lots of fruit, lots of juice, maybe lots of sugar but since most don’t have diabetes it’s perfectly lovely. I can’t at my age get gluttonous on fruits so folks, I am chomping my daily vitamins, eating my Vitamin A in anything orange colored and gobbling lots of Vit C (thank you Linus Pauling) and Vit D. And of course an occasional glass of Gatorade to balance my innards. Burning lovely smelling incense sticks to channel the calm bat in me. I don’t care at this point about how the WH is directing this effort because honestly that would scare me into the virus zone. Honestly the house smells great, lots of home cooking, not too bad having everyone connect over a common topic, less driving, less pollution....we might just purge our environment and our bodies of horrible pollutants :-)))). Maybe corona is the push we need to pay attention to the nonsense we are doing to the world and our bodies. This virus is causing an evolutionary jump in our thinking, habits and environment.
6
Linus Pauling’s Vitamin C theory has been thoroughly debunked. Consuming extra vitamins,unless you have a deficiency, is a waste of money. Seriously.
@Bill
Vit C is cheap, it really does no harm, has a half life of half an hour and whether you believe it does your cold any good or not, is essential to a whole plethora of biochemical events in your body. My family is dosed in higher amounts when ill and even though we eat healthy to a great extent, it makes us feel great. In fact I used to give my kids a dose of 500mg C before every vaccination. While most kids will be fine anyway, I always felt it was almost an insurance against a feeling of malaise. Perhaps, it is time to fund better designed studies of cheap vitamins once again. Besides as I said, if you look at what animals eat, it’s a lot more than a paltry 60mg of the daily dose. Let’s stop being rigid and open our minds to the fact old research is not a perfect maxim. Look at the mess the biased and one sided research on fat has gotten us into with regards to consumption of sugars.
When ill, by the way, is when your body depletes more Vit C......so what have you got to lose by popping a couple of C’s :-)).
Why on earth is anyone still going on cruise ships?
Why is the government still allowing them to run?
Why can't we force the cruise ships to suspend service and refund passengers until this pandemic is under control?
74
I am always amazed how careless people are. Can u imagine how much that costs to test, quarantine, intensive care them.. Unbelievable. And then? What? There are not enough tests for us? Seems it is better to be on a cruise ship than on land to be testet....?????
2
@Rose People still buy guns to commit suicide.
This WHO director is the same guy who, a couple of months ago, said something to the effect of "there's nothing to see here, move along..." when the news was first starting to come out of China.
He has lost all credibility, frankly. At this stage, it's best if he left public communications to his lieutenants .
13
From Central Florida:
I've lost count of the number of times I've heard people say "it's just a flu" or "it's a hoax." They're literally quoting Trump and Hannity as they cough and sneeze.
Florida is NOT widely testing for COVID-19. Thus far, only 100 tests have been performed in a state where 23% of the population is over 60 years of age.
There are 3 State labs for testing, but they are understaffed and overwhelmed even with the old criteria of testing only known contacts or hot-spot travelers. Testing at healthcare facilities, according to DeSantis, is "months away." Source: Miami Herald
Orlando/Orange County health department held a press conference last night. The mayor focused on losing $154 million in cancelled conferences, but that "Orlando is open for business!" What was truly worse--unbelievable!--was a top-level health dept. official repeatedly referring to THE FLU. "If you think you have the flu..." and so on. It's all about the flu. This, from a health department official.
Though the CDC has published excellent guidance, for example, to colleges and universities, the guidance is based on whether or not "cases are identified" in a community. No testing = no cases = no action taken. Just rapid transmission of COVID--19 all over the place.
I have completely lost faith in my local, state, and federal government. This is dangerous.
91
There is most likely much in the creation of this problem of which the public is unaware. Who benefits when Americans have completely lost faith in local, state, and federal government? It is dangerous, and in my opinion it is a continuation of the danger Donald Trump has brought to our everyday lives every day since he took office. Whether deliberate or not, he continues to whittle away at our faith in our country. Who would benefit?
14
My question regarding lack of preparation at hospitals and other health centers (not nursing homes): What the heck does JCAO accreditation mean if this organization is not looking hard at emergency preparedness at these institutions? Many hospitals and health centers are required to have regular audits by this group to maintain accreditation and receive reimbursement from certain insurers. I am on a listserv with medical personnel and often hear comments about how "at the JCAO audit they dinged us on (insert insignificant issue here)". We had the Ebola issue several years ago and it was clear there were unprepared hospitals. It's been at least 4 years, where is JCAO on this???
7
Susi,
In response to your comment to me:
I am very aware that the senate bill he signed for $8.3 billion for the coronavirus outbreak was bi partisan. He has said all along that he would do anything to assist in this dreaded coronavirus and he is delivering. He keeps his promises. How refreshing.
1
@KMW This must be sarcasm. The rest of the world is testing people at a remarkable and efficient rate to determine the scope of the outbreaks. We have tested fewer than 1,000 people. We have absolutely no idea about the potential scope of an issue covid-19 the US because this President's team failed to act in January. Other countries have proved that early, comprehensive, free testing is possible and is the foundation to limiting negative impacts. In addition, we have shortages of ventilators and other supplies for healthcare workers.
I only needed the President to do the right things.
11
@KMW
Trump asked for $1.5 billion. The House of Representatives bumped that up to $8.3 billion, which then passed the Senate.
I'm sure Trump would love to veto it to get rid of some more of the "deep state", but even he doesn't dare.
11
@KMW
And he needs to stop spreading misinformation!
4
It would be helpful if on the map adjacent to this piece showing the number of cases worldwide, the Times would cite the number of people in those countries as well.
Even though Wuhan, China was the source of this outbreak and it spread undetected for 6-10 weeks, they have 80,000 reported cases out of 1.4 billion people. That is 0.005% of the population. So, after more than three months 99.995% of the people in China have NOT been infected with the Coronavirus.
We have 200 cases out of 350,000,000 people, most from overseas travel. You do the math.
It would be helpful if Wall Street recognizes this as well.
3
@Michael
If you want to read further, I suggest googling Taiwan News-
China has a Big Brother effect on any reports or blogs or youtube videos that disagree with how many are dead, dying, or have the virus. People have gone missing there- reporters, doctors, students, and others- people who have taken cell phone pictures of trucks picking the dead up off the streets have been located and removed to who knows where.
We really have NO idea the actual numbers from China, only what their Communist government tells us. A neighbor has a brother in law in China who has been giving startling and frightening details in code to his sister here in the US.
Stock up and hunker down.
4
@Michael
China we keep bashing had / has installed some kind of app that lets you know if you are close to an area where there were/are many positive tested! corona patients.
1
I completely understand your point. As a US citizen who works remotely with China daily I can make a counterpoint to your argument. China took extremely aggressive measures that has kept these numbers as low as they are. Even now, their schools are still closed, it is mandatory to wear face masks other than in your home, your face masks must be discarded daily, and your temperature is checked before you are allowed in your work place. The Chinese believe strongly that the masks prevent you from getting the virus. I suspect that as a collective community where everyone is wearing one it does help reduce the ability of the virus to spread since an initial sneeze will go into a mask. Also their areas of quarantine were not merely a request to stay home for a month. Roads were blocked and the infrastructure essentially went into lockdown throughout most of the country.
3
The W.H.O. and its officials are a farce. For years now they have known how fast virus's can spread and the damage that they can do. The mathematics of biology tell us. They knew the serious of the situation in China weeks ago. They knew from the Korean Church case how fast it could spread to others outside China. But still as administrators they did little and downplayed the situation until it got very out of hand.
It's time that the W.H.O. be revamped.
4
@Peter
Do you realize how much the Trump administration has cut the United States' remittances to W.H.O.?
2
@Peter
Yup. I'm sure everyone would be delighted if WHO had declared an emergency prematurely, encouraged grounding of all flghts worldwide, advised borders to be closed, social activities curtailed, businesses to close, troops to be mobilised and then said "oops guys, not as bad as we thought". How d'you think Mr Trump would have viewed anything that degraded 'his' economy' if the severity of the Covid-19 outbreak was not at that time known?
Personally, i think WHO - as a collaborative, multinational, inevitably politicised organisation - has played this very well indeed. Many countries have successfully interpreted WHO's well judged opinions and translated them into effective local public heakth strategies.
Sadly, many of WHO's detractors seem to be those reluctant to accept the US's rather poor handling of the situation.
Would anyone be truly surprised to hear that Trump is withholding funding for the CDC until it investigates whether Hunter Biden started the pandemic?
20
The window of opportunity is NOW and not tomorrow. I think drastic actions need to put in place to avoid more spreading. This is about avoiding more damages at this point. Washington State should declare MARTIAL LAW to quarantine towns. Now we have cases in US reported from travel from the epicenter in US. Today China reported ZERO cases outside of the Epicenter. They locked Hubei Province and we need to do same at State level. I am not pro-China but they applied what common sense will do to save more lives!
11
I go to a very unsanitary methadone clinic. Unlike others, the nurses do not wear gloves. The only thing they do is occasionally use handsanitizer. In the meantime, they are handling "take home" bottles which are returned by other clients (aka: patients). In other words, a person whose hands could have been anywhere (like in their own pants) hand used bottles to the nurse, who in turn hands me a cup I drink from along with the "take home" bottles I receive. They also recive urine samples. I cannot think of a better way to spread this virus. I can't get in touch with any local health department. It is outrageous. I have hounded them for months about their unsanitary conditions. The answer I received less than a week ago was "I will bring it up at our next staff meeting". They are so behind by not dealing with this, it is criminal. The only upside is I have been tapering down for many months (ultimately) to zero. Right now, I am 3/4 of the way there.
20
@Easy Goer
Yes, it’s criminal.
Good luck to you!
2
Why was the US acting as observers rather than preparers during the December outbreak of this virus in China? Did we think this would never spread across an interconnected world of 8 billion people? How quickly we forgot the airline passenger a couple of years ago who had tuberculosis and spread it all over the passengers via the closed air system.
Our narcissist-in-chief cannot keep his fragile ego out of the way and actually act as the leader he was elected to be, yet has NEVER BEEN. No, instead he contradicts his own health officials, all but suggests those with mild cases ought to go to work, and minimizes it as nothing but a cold, because he personalizes the corona virus. Trump has no credibility with the American people. His transparent lies, this void of leadership, and failure to calm the masses has further depressed the stock market. Appointing Pence as the "czar" is a joke. It's no wonder we are unprepared. Our administration has failed us, again. Mr Obama HAD a pandemic organization within the Govt. Trump abolished it. Remember that in November.
30
I have the nasty suspicion that Trump et al have acting in the sense of doing something effective confused with acting in the sense of getting up on stage.
7
Look at the Seattle Times report, finally, of the nightmare the people and relatives of the residents of Kirkland Life Care are living. The nearby hospital just reported 3 more deaths since yesterday. There have not been enough tests to test everyone there or other places. The care facility was also not quarantined, meaning residents were not always separated from one another. There are residents who have tested positive. The CDC, although sporadically on site, is not managing this situation. My friend’s mom passed away, over night yesterday...they received a call at 3:30am. Then, another call at 10:30am...saying “just calling to say Mom is fine.”
14
We should just assume that our government is not going to be truthful with us about this and educate ourselves through the available scientific literature to protect ourselves. We are dealing with a president who drew on an official weather forecast with a Sharpie because he thought Alabama was on the Atlantic Ocean — no bottom to his ignorance and brazen lies.
As a person living with relapsing-remitting MS who has learned how to avoid germs to stay healthy, I recommend that in addition to proper hand washing and not touching your face, everyone should use antibacterial wipes to wipe down anything you take out in public, and to do this as soon as you get back home. I always wipe down my phone and the surface I place it on to sanitize it, and I quickly throw my clothes into the washing machine if I’ve been in a crowded place.
The key is keeping anything you touch frequently as free of germs as possible. Don’t touch anything when you get back home until you’ve washed your hands and sanitized phone etc. Your car is also a place germs like to hide, so wipe down your steering wheel and dashboard, etc. It’s really not that hard to get into this routine, and it has done a world of good keeping me from getting the flu for three seasons now. I had the flu in January 2017 and it literally almost killed me. After that, I became vigilant about germs. May sound crazy, but I’d rather be crazy than dead.
36
I don't understand the administration trying to sweep this under the rug. It's not going away by itself. Our best chance is to nip this in the bud now (or was yesterday), not just wait and see.
How about $10 billion to pay all at risk people and their employers to stay home for 2 weeks. So some take advantage. That's still worth it to nip this in the bud while we have time.
14
Our so-called world leaders got caught flat footed by this virus and as a result, millions of people are going to get affected and who knows how many people will die. Keep an eye on the food supply chain. We are not very far from all out public panic. Good thing there are 300 million guns circulating in the United States.
Brace for impact.
6
Frankly, it was time to "pull out all the stops" more than a month ago.
Even WHO is well behind the curve here, which to me demonstrates undue influence on WHO by nation states with selfish economic interests.
29
Here in Europe in the distant past when plagues ran rampant, anybody showing symptoms would be confined to their house and all doors and possible means of exit were nailed closed for a couple of weeks and a big red cross was painted on the door. Obviously we have progressed beyond that, but confinement (isolation) still seems a really good idea. Here in the UK, if you do have the virus you will be financially compensated for not working, if you isolate yourself. I don’t believe that this is the case in the USA (but I could be wrong). Anyway, the less infected people roaming around, the better and mass reliable testing is absolutely essential, anything else is a recipe for a pandemic. Here at the moment, the number of cases is doubling on a daily basis, which is a concern. But like all viral infections, it will end eventually, but it helps if you have somebody at the top who tells you the truth, without a fantasy political spin on it.
25
In the US, some people get a limited number of sick days with pay. Many don’t get any. No one gets enough sick days to get paid during an extended quarantine.
1
@Henry Rawlinson
In UK, the employer is responsible for the first 4 days of an absent employees pay after which, the government pays the employer compensation for further sickness absence. It's not a lot - about $130 per week. Employers can offer more generous terms - for example, subject to one year of unbroken previous service, NHS employees get a much better deal - up to 6 months full pay and then 6 months half pay (for the old timers) after the first month of absence. On the other hand, it's semi-legal for an employer not to offer any pay until the post day 4 government scheme kicks in. It's particulalry noticeable that US companies operating in the UK follow that sentiment.
With the Covid-19 outbreak, the UK government has firstly agreed to pay sickness from Day 1 of absence and also to dispense with the doctors' report normally required at Day 4.
One of the reasons that Europe is less wealthy and profitable than the US is that employee benefits in Europe are light years ahead. It's odd how Americans seem to be both envious and contemptuous, simultaneously, about that.
3
People at my job have decided that the Coronavirus is nothing more than media created pandemonium, a news cycle. They believe that there is nothing different about this virus than the common flu other than the fact that there isn't a vaccine. I'm glad to see it taken seriously by people of science.
27
I think the biggest problem is that very few people talking about it seem to understand what the goal of the WHO and CDC is. I keep hearing people say things about “staying safe” or “most people will recover.” These statements suggest that the goal is to prevent deaths. But the real goal is to prevent it from becoming a pandemic that returns every year like the flu. The last thing we need is another seasonal flu to deal with.
We have a chance to contain this virus so it never comes back. But not if we don’t even know that that’s the goal.
29
China’s draconian isolation measures appear to be stemming their epidemic. It’s too early to tell if a directed public health campaign where cases and contacts are identified and triaged as necessary will do as well.
My fear is we’ll fail miserably, mostly for lack of testing early enough. It’s not helping that the president and his boosters are downplaying things. The experts should be front and center with the whole unvarnished truth and no political spin.
People seem overly focused on the exact mortality rate. It’s clearly more dangerous to infected individuals than the average flu. And we should expect a lower mortality rate here than in less advanced countries. But it’s not a trivial test of our hospitals if 1 in 7 infected persons need hospitalization and 1 in 20 need intensive care, as Chinese statistics indicated.
For those who don’t know, we have very little flex capability in the vast majority of our hospitals. And staffing is just as tight. Add in workplace exposures and resultant quarantines of essential staff, and the whole system could easily collapse. Rural communities where hospitals have closed for lack of Medicaid expansion may be out of luck if the epidemic isn’t soon brought under control and spreads nationwide.
25
That’s the whole point , Jaco, we have no clue. Data is extremely important in these types of events, but this administration would rather keep head in ground.
3
@jaco
Thanks for the reply. I agree we have virtually no idea how many US residents are infected, itself a failure given the lead time we had before cases appeared here.
China had a massive outbreak with total numbers that might be systematically low due to limited testing, or skewed by CCP members for political reasons - both of which might falsely elevate the mortality rate.
But that's somewhat besides the point. The significance of their outbreak isn't in much doubt, nor their massive need for new hospital beds.
Now, more and more cases are showing up here, and we're mostly flying blind. Maybe it will all work out, but maybe it won't. And it should go without saying that we should bring the best science, public health practices, and medical care to bear.
Meanwhile, an abundance of caution seems in order. Panic is not called for, but folks should be dialed in to the news and the latest public health advisories. Unfortunately, Trump, Pence, and senior administration sycophants are proven purveyors of self serving falsehoods. They're now contributing to fear and confusion rather than doing anything useful for the public.
2
It’s hard to believe that the states are all working in step with the CDC. They appear to be taking radically different approaches. My family recently moved to Seattle from Brooklyn and we are astonished by the lack of decisive, quick and focused action which is needed in a situation like this. There are daily reports that residents and staff (including those with symptoms) of the Life Care Nursing Home still haven’t been tested. In addition, people who have visited the facility during the course of the outbreak have not been able to get tested or clear guidance on how to handle their exposure.
Earlier this week (days after the first death was announced), the Governor spoke via a general public press conference to the families with loved ones in the facility and said that there was no need to quarantine if you had visited the facility unless you have symptoms. Meanwhile, NY has thousands in quarantine and California has managed to test and quarantine an entire cruise ship.
The Governor called for Washington’s citizens to be leaders in this fight. The wavering recommendations to the schools, citizens and those in most critical need of help does little to convey a spirit of leadership or direction.
14
@Andrea NY has "thousands in quarantine"? Since when? The residents of Life Care are being tested and their family members are prohibited to enter, which has its own problems for relatives. It is important to have factual information.
6
@BB HERNANDEZ Read the article. More than 2770 people in quarantine/home isolation in NY.
10
@BB HERNANDEZ They have not all been tested. In the press conference this morning, they said they have either tested or are working on testing the remaining residents and staff. It has been nearly a week since the first reported death. In terms of the families, I am referring to family members that visited prior to the facility closing its doors to outside guests. Many family members reported visiting the center while the outbreak was present and ongoing but prior to center's knowledge of the outbreak (so before the first death was announced). Based on the Governor's statement earlier this week, those individuals are not being asked to quarantine unless they show symptoms and the only request for that seems to be made via a public press conference. This is after multiple news reports of family members asking for guidance on this very issue.
4
I would love to see more coverage from the front lines: our hospitals. Are there people with symptoms requesting tests and not getting them? What are the stated reasons? According to the news reports coming out of China there was a surplus of patients and insufficient tests. Is that happening here? If so, where and how broadly?
How is it possible that the positive cases in the US be so low if the volume of fatalities have now surpassed that of Japan, a country which has one of the highest caseloads outside of China?
32
I was on a Princess cruise last year. The waiters also bus the dirty plates, then set up the tables for the next meal.
There is a reason for bus boys. Very unhygienic and I informed Princess after the cruise. Not sure if they changed the procedure, but if not, they are responsible for the spread of germs.
19
“It is time to pull out all the stops”.
Getting rid of Trump would be a start.
There are not enough tests and even Mike Pence admitted that. We won’t know how many people have this virus until people are tested.
The buck stops with the president and so far Trump is only interested in the buck and not the people of this country.
We need competence and truth now more than ever. Our president has failed us on these two important issues.
79
@Charna
Pence will be on TV tonight at five pm...
"There are five known cases in the USA....."
1
I’m not sure what Trump was doing in early January, after he shut down visitors from Asian countries despite the complaints of many Democrats who also said that his coronavirus action plan was stealing millions from the pressing problem of Ebola in the US. Now that Trump has been convicted I’m sure that President Pence has the situation under control.
1
The only thing keeping US numbers where they are is the lack of testing. That's it. The delays and denial by the Trump administration is costing lives and sadly will take many, many more once we learn the real scope.
210
@Maple Surple
"The delays and denial by the Trump administration is costing lives and sadly will take many, many more once we learn the real scope."
You mean if we learn the real scope. I am worries that the WHO will call it a pandemic and the Trump administration will say, "it's too late, it's everywhere. No point testing now." I fear that is why they delayed the production and distribution of tests.
12
@Maple Surple
The strategy is similar to the one for mad cow disease: don’t test, announce absence of disease.
We should be comparing the apparent results in China with the rest of the world. Some call the isolation measures China used as draconian. Based on the declines in China compared to increased cases elsewhere one has to ask which approach will stop the spread of this disease and limit the short term damage to their economy. Europe and the US are both taking a business as usual approach hoping that some miracle occurs that limits its spread in the near term. After all, the slow approach we are witnessing is really driven by the perceived damage to the economy rather than STOPPING the spread of this pandemic.
28
@John There are hot spots in Italy that are closed off, with police at the borders of these towns to keep people from leaving or entering. In Northern Italy theaters and opera houses have been closed. Two members of the La Scala opera have tested positive. As reported today in The Times, La Fenice in Venice has been closed. Some events are being streamed instead of being performed before a live audience. Schools have been closed all over Italy. Business is not quite as usual in Italy at least.
Staying up to date with the information coming from your local government is the best advice I've seen in the comments. The U.S. is a large country and most states are low risk at present. Learning about what is going on globally is great, but paying attention to what is happening locally is best for gauging how concerned you need to be about Covid-19 right now.
15
@betterangels
My local government is spreading misinformation and overwhelmed. Useless.
1
Joe Biden should go to the CDC now that Trump has opted out. He is infinitely more presidential than Trump.
66
[[A White House official initially said on Friday that the president had canceled the visit because he did not want to interfere with the work at the centers. But then Mr. Trump told reporters it was called off because of a suspected case of coronavirus at the C.D.C. itself.
As he signed the spending bill at the White House, Mr. Trump said the report of an infection at C.D.C. had turned out to be negative. “So I may be going,” he told reporters. “We’re going to see if they can turn it around.”]]
So, the aide lied. But Trump still avoided any personal stress or effort. Then he dangles the (fake) possibility of going in the future and leaves himself the out that other people must “turn around” conditions there.
He will, of course, never go, the issue will be forgotten and if it reappears he will say “they” never got back to him...but that “they” are doing “terrific” work over “there.”
41
@Third.Coast
thoughts and prayers
Yesterday Donny was telling people to go to work if they feel sick. I guess he's afraid no one will show up in one of his businesses.
I miss Obama.
147
@Philly Burbs Fake. He didn't say that. He said people may go to work not knowing they have the virus. If people "feel" sick they have the choice to not go to work, as it has always been.
@Philly Burbs
Too bad, his eight years were up. You go to war with the army you have; not the one you wish to have. Paraphrasing some prior head of DOD, I think.
1
Wow - lets keep the hype going. The most frightening thing about this virus is the media response to it. The hysteria that has now metastasized in market damage, the needless frightening of millions of people for something that will be an actual threat to very, very, very few. This outbreak is too sensationalized and I really wish the coverage from the NYT and others would dial back. This is not a time to panic, not a time to pull out all of the stops, not a time to cancel events, it is a time to live on and live our lives in a sensible way. For some reason, we need to keep people whipped up about something that they cannot control, that governments cannot control and can subverted by simple means for the average person.
The hysteria that is caused by the fixation on this event is the real problem and that is worthy of attention, not the virus. The virus will spread, but the media hysteria about this is what can be controlled. I ask the editors at the NYT to start thinking about this as the coverage is overblown and is only creating a feedback loop, which is not welcome right now.
17
“This is not this big a deal” is easy to say when you are not near where people are dying.
Right here at American Coronavirus Central, the warnings are not hype. The virus has been spreading un-identified through the local population for more than a month and the deaths are now appearing. Everyone is afraid of not just getting sick but of being a carrier and infecting loved ones. I personally know people who have been sick—no, they did not die but they have been very very ill for a good two weeks. If it gets worse hospitals can be swamped and a shortage of ventilators will force decisions for who has access. No one wants to pass that on to anyone else.
Markets? If the choice is to worry about the stock market or illness (or even death), I’ll take a hit on the markets. I think Americans are making a wise choice in self-isolating, self-imposing restrictions the government in China has had to force on their citizens to get this thing under control. They’ll be plenty of time for increasing our stock portfolios later.
If we want to worry about money, let’s worry about those who have no portfolios and not much savings either. Small businesses and poorly paid workers are going to need help to keep going so that they can still be there for the rest of us when this is over. How can we make that happen?
35
@BSOD
A feedback loop is not making people sick and die; Coronavirus is.
The media is not misrepresenting facts about vaccines and safety measures; Trump is.
The media did not say we do not have enough testing kits..millions and millions; Pence did.
The media did not tell people to go to work when sick; Trump did, only to be corrected by experts and scientists -- those annoying people who know what they are talking about.
The media did not make up the deaths and sickness in China and around the world.
The media did not cause the drop in the markets.
The media is not quaranteening people on cruise ships, at home and in hitrk rooms. Government officials and hrsjtb departments are.
This is the sad and true reality of this Coronavirus outbreak.
Unfortunately, we are burdened with a President who knows nothing but thinks he knows everything.
30
While I agree that panic and hysteria are not useful, understanding the risk and scope of the disease is important. While the vast majority of people who get this virus will survive it, the death rate is significant, and avoiding the spread of it is important. Wanting to lessen the news/knowledge about the virus is akin to putting your head in the sand. If you can’t handle the knowledge without losing your cool, it is hardly the news media’s fault.
16