There have been many Agreements, Treaties or Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) in history that have died before the ink on the paper had dried up.
This Agreement arrived at after months of negotiations between the American reps and the Talibans is one of them. This agreement -- signed while many deaths of American military men were taking place as the negotiation was going on -- was destined to fail because the Talibans wanted nothing less than undisputed sovereignty over the entire country. They promised they were agreeable to intra-Afghan negotiation but that simply meant an unqualified hand over of complete control to the Talibans by the wobbly democratic government of President Ghani.
The world is watching this bewildering moment in history and asking what happened to the US led coalition of war against terrorism or the Republican promise of "not negotiating with the terrorists."
Trump had given a call of making America Great Again and sought to convince his base that the Obama presidency had yielded a lot of ground to the Islamic world sponsoring terrorism, rendering America weaker. The Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld theory was that if the terrorists weren't contained in rogue states like Pak and Afghan, "they would hit hard here at our homeland."
This is also an irony of history, and, by implication, a contradiction in the American sense of judgement: Haqqani, who should have been treated at par with Osama, Anwar Alwaki, Baghdadi or Suleimani, was given a status of co-equals!
5
Fundamentally dead on arrival pact because Trump and his negotiators are ignoring the fact that Ghani and His Afghan team with corrupt politicians around them ,do not want US to leave .
They get billions of US dollars aid & free protection as long as US is present. Why would they not do every thing it takes to make it fail until a clear and final big NO without ambiguity. Let NATO from Europe stay there if they want to but US should not be fooled into breaking truce unless Taliban break the truce against US soldiers or assets .
It appears we got quickly manipulated again by Ghani who immediately violated the terms agreed by US about prisoners . He knew the result . There is one more country which had invested billions of dollars in Afghanistan’s infrastructure in support of Ghani and was not happy at all on this deal !
I want every one to guess as they openly cried out foul after the pact was signed .
Ghani ‘s forces could not capture any Taliban alone with US support ? But they rudely made a U turn on the deal by out right refusal to deal with prisoners. They knew well that Taliban will then react as predictable they are !
2
Who would of thought? The guys that broke every cease fire in the last 5 years, would break another. And at that, one of a duration of a week. I can't believe how stupid we are, for even considering a one week duration was worse anything even if achieved. A lasting peace, means so much more, not in time but for honoring American lives that have been given to give the Afghans a chance of having a real self directed government that was just and would work to bring a better life for all....now its just going to be a reset to what we had when we walked in...just walking out because we grew tired...we should be ashamed, humiliated, and wowfull.
1
Another Trump miracle.
2
I no longer care who rules Afghanistan or how they do it.
Not our business.
We spend $45 billion per year in Afghanistan. Let's spend it in the U.S instead.
5
We cannot know what the future holds and what obstacles we have created for ourselves and those in the Middle East but this has potential to fireball into something that is far worse.
5
There’s an election coming and, like Bush before him, Trump has nothing to run on...
5
How could it possibly work? How can you have a peace treaty in Afghanistan if the government, corrupt or not, are not involved? The years of killing and destruction of the Afghan people went unaddressed so that Trump could chalk up a win by negotiating with the enemy. Their goal is to control the country you know.
Then refer back to the guerilla’s handbook. Avoid major battles, hit and run, destroy infrastructure. Chip away at the army and police to demoralize them. Tire the people of conflict so the government will negotiate. Honor short cease fires. Use the time to build your army, recruit, and acquire equipment for the next attack. Repeat until you win.
You can almost hear Chairman Mao talking to the Taliban leaders.
5
Trump, as would anyone in his position, wanted to be gone from our self imposed pit of Afghanistan. It does not take any brainpower to recognize the Taliban as a treacherous group who will seize the whole country for themselves. So be it. We should have left after we crushed the Taliban and Alqaeda back in the early first millennial decade, our invasion goals reached. Nope, we had to leave a democracy, in our hubris, to be remembered for. Now we are gone, 18 years later poorer by a couple trillion dollars and many dead and maimed soldiers. Bye bye Afghanland!
3
A Trump & Pompeo peace plan.
It's a Taliban double (crossing) play.
Guess who's getting played?
Did anyone expect a different outcome?
I hardly think so.
4
Former president. G.W Bush your silence is deafening.
5
And all the good ole boys and girls still wonder why America is hated and mistrusted around the world. Today's gop and white house is the epitome of the "ugly American." Our twilight has arrived.
3
This is a slap across the face to every US soldier who gave life, limb, and soul to this war. Maybe Republicans should think twice next time about nominating a draft-dodging coward for president.
8
The irony of Taliban lies given to America’s biggest liar (aka trump) is not lost on the rest of the world. How many millions are laughing do you think???
5
The people who believe peace with the Taliban (or ISIS, or other religious fanatics with guns and ammo) is possible - are the biggest enablers of terrorism on the planet. At peril are all schools, every civic institution, and all women in Afghanistan - but why would the apologists care about that.
Everyone who thinks peace is possible has never been to the region. They are given to huzzas about religion of peace, and goodness of people without any shred of evidence. Negotiating with the Taliban in Afghanistan, when the problem is Pakistani military in Islamabad, is a fools errand.
But, I am happy to put money where my mouth is, and urge the apologists to do the same. I am happy to contribute to a fund that would pay for the 1000 biggest apologists in America - who think they can build love and peace with the Taliban by negotiating with them (and while supplying arms and comfort to Pakistani military) - to move to Afghanistan (outside of Kabul, say in Tora Bora) - and show us how it is done. I am sure your infinite wisdom will prevail. Thank you.
1
Complete disarmament should have been a requirement. The only future for Taliban can be as a few religious schools, if any. But how to stop them?
1
@Plank
Speaking of disarmament, who exactly is arming them? Who are their sources of support? They don't operate in a vacuum. And why aren't the pharmaceutical companies of the world buying Afghanistan's opium? That would certainly help the growers and the government,and help eliminate the black market.
1
This is to be expected - Trump abandoned the Kurds now its Afghanistan. He only wanted to be able to say he ended the US involvement in the war. He andBernie have much in common - isolationist, angry, and money - wolves in sheep’s clothing.
2
The many statements and actions - the latter, chiefly the 59 districts, approximately 14.5 percent of all, that are under the Taliban control; more, the remaining 119 districts, about 29.2 percent, that can, with certainty, be said to be contested, all, unless otherwise, that is new imperatives of the conjuncture happen to be the reasons for the above information to change - make it clear that they view the current Afghan presidency, that of Ashraf Ghani, to be more specific, as, in essence, a foreign-imposed “puppet” regime. As such, it is certainly “illegitimate” and this implies that the Taliban not recognize it.
If Trump can propose an Israel / Palestine peace agreement without Palestinian participation , it fallows that an Afgan agreement can be reached without the Afgan government.
To do otherwise would be complicated.
2
I would be happy we are leaving Afghanistan—except we will still have a large footprint on the ground there, which will force us to renegotiate our presence when the Taliban eventually take over again. Otherwise we will have a replay of Americans leaving Saigon on helicopters from rooftops as the victors roll into town. You cannot have peace with honor when there is no peace. There is nothing honorable about the Taliban, so there can be nothing honorable in appeasing them by signing a fake agreement with them to which Afghanistan’s own government is not a party. Better to have just packed up and left.
2
Afghanistan has always been ruled by the tribal warlords. It was that way when occupied by the former Soviet Union & its proxy Afghan government and it is that way occupied by the US and it's proxy Afghan government. The real power has and will always be in the hands of the regional warlords. There is no benefit or appeal, let alone agreement, to centralise the government. The only time the warlords come together is to fight foreign invaders and puppet installed governments.
The failures in Afghanistan are the failures to understand the regional power over centralised, that 'one size fits all' was a recipe for diplomatic failure of both the former Soviet Union and the US.
The US made the same mistake in Somalia. Just because the West calls it one country, does not make it so.
1
Did anyone seriously think this desperate, jerry-rigged deal was going to amount to anything?
3
fooled by North Korea, now fooled by the Taliban, and Iran has enough enriched uranium for a bomb. is America great or what?
5
THE SEMI-CEASE FIRE AGREEMENT - there is this particular challenge, of feminine type, to cite only this one this time, since women, with the help of the qualities or skills they possess, as measured against those of men, in a normal society, are determined to sufficiently be capable to contribute to the advancement of society, too. What about not absolutely inviting women to engage in such a contest, one of helping build a peaceful Afghanistan or transporting it to the 21st century from the prehistoric era? A resounding NO, because they are considered by men to even be lesser than negligible quantities, meaning they do not exist at all, except when the title, as if they were cheap goats or inexpensive pieces of land, of their ownership, to put it this way, is in the process of being transferred to a jihadist from another one of his fellow terror man, as a said gift of the Prophet Muhammad – this, despite his list of “girlies” or “filles de joie,” most often, is already a long one.
“Reduce violence and not increase attacks “
Really? What kind of a peace deal is that?
I’m sure DJT has negotiated better divorce settlements than that.
1
Another sore part of our national nightmare.
One would think that Trump's bone spurs would have healed by now--but not so.
They know Trump is full of bluster and hot air, signifying nothing. He wants a “deal” so he can lie about his foreign policy, peacemaking achievements and order Pence to write a nomination letter to the Nobel Prize Committee. Maybe he can share it with all of his buddies- Putin, North Korea, the Taliban leader, and throw in the leaders of Turkey and Syria. Like giving joint awards for breakthroughs in medicine and science!
1
Its a complete Soviet era withdraw, Trumps best deals are done by his lawyers in American courts. Taleban will be happy with 5000 reinforcements prisoner releases, for no real concessions, what a great deal for them. NZs troops should be out ASAP.
Is anybody surprised? The deal with was : „You can do what you want from now on and we will say that we weren‘t defeated but accomplished the mission, OK?“
Still can't believe I voted for Trump. Hope to change in November.
Please vote.
2
I noticed that Liz Chaney is also upset about this peace deal. I'm sure her dad's minions whose companies make a fortune off these "wars" aren't happy! But here's how I feel about this....The Afghan gov't (both of them!) have had years to stabilize their country. Why haven't they done it when they've received so much help from us? Because the frayed situation seems to work for them!! Once we're gone, they will be forced to stand up and fight...or not! Yes, the Afghans know the Taliban will come for them, but the Afghans have had many chances and they blew all of them. Now it's time for us to take care of our troops, some who have been killed by rogue Afghans!
The United States has once again proven that it cannot successfully intervene in remote civil wars. We cannot bestow peace or make ourselves loved or have our values emulated by bombing and invading.
Reality requires that we admit defeat and withdraw. It's crazy to keep digging ourselves into a deeper hole.
2
I pity the Afghan people who worked with the US forces. I wouldn't want to be in their trenches. Will DJT allow them to come here to save their lives?
10
@Hector So no US citizenship or them?
1
Doubtfull! Looks as he's going to give them the same treatment as with kurds.
2
@Hector
Trump betrayed the Kurds, who were very loyal allies, and then pretended that he had done them a big favor by supporting them while they did our fighting for us. He certainly doesn't feel he owes our Afghan allies anything. The only thing Trump cares about is winning in 2020.
2
America is trying to square the circle . It is not easy .It becomes impossible when winning an election is the motive behind engaging with the rivals who are thousands of miles away . It is doubly impossible when people with no skin in the game pontificate about continuing the war for careerism or financial motives or for visibility in media or both. We call them arm chair ,some people call them psychopath America is full of the,
America is negotiating after 18 years with one who wanted to negotiate in 2001 who promised to hand over arch terrorist and stop exporting their version of administration abroad .
There have been many opportunities when America could have played a sincere and open honest role America has not . Taliban might have negotiated but they also know this America cant be trusted .
1
That's your "Art of the Deal" president. Success rate less than zero -- big talk, no action on the Iranian and North Korean nuclear threat. Turkey and Russia unbound in the Middle East with resulting carnage. Look the other way at the Saudi massacre in Yemen. Israeli/Palestinian 'peace plan' all show, no go, DOA.
But to be fair, no worse than when we cut and ran from Vietnam after many years of war, leaving a bloodbath in our wake as the warring Vietnamese forces hashed it out without any guardrails.
8
Afghanistan is the graveyard of Empires.
USSR, England, others, all met the same fate.
We should have left soon as we destroyed alQuaida and had the Taliban on the run. But that was back when Bush the Lesser sent us to Iraq, which he bungled so bad we're still paying for his mistakes.
Obama and Biden had 8 years to stop this war, they failed too.
There is no winning this war, there are only degrees of loosing.
It will never go away, not for as long as a country called Afghanistan is there. You cannot grab 3 people's lands, carve half of each and bundle it together, and then wonder why it fights to come apart every day ever since.
The Pashtuns , the Uzbeks, the Tajik, and even the west, they all want their country back, why not just let them have it?
Why should we honor the Durand line since it has brought so much dead ever since it was implemented?
Let's go. Let's get out. We have no business there.
5
Either admit we are washing our hands, or stay and fight. Lying about what we are doing only dishonors the American dead and our abandoned allies.
9
Trump's list of failures continues to grow.
12
What? Trump fooled again?
10
We should have planted the idea that Obama trusted the Taliban (laughable), Obama humiliated Afghan govt (which he skillfully avoided), and Obama folded on human rights (never).
Then 45 would have done the opposite: distrusted Taliban, had govt’s back, and defended Afghan women from fundamentalist psychos.
4
Great work, "chosen one".
"Well, one more "bullet" to my re-election list of accomplishments.
Just one thing: you didn't accomplish anything. w. would say you're ready to "cut and run". What did you leave behind?
5
Hmmm Trump lying about something? Well that’s odd.
7
It is impossible for me to see how this will ever end short of America just walking away. Not walking away then becomes a never-ending multi-billion dollar tax.
1
I suppose any master of the art of the deal should know to get out fast and cover his tracks. As often is the case, pride may have gotten in the way of following that key lesson.
1
The US never learns from history.
This is the Vietnam Peace Accord version 2.0 in the making.
5
@Chuck In my 74 years and the Vietnam War I would have to agree. Kim laughs at him and if people believe he is the man against war must be why he tore up the Iran nuclear deal and why we have thousands of troops in Saudi Arabia and his bluster about Iran. It is interesting that since he was so happy killing their military leader and then hides the fact and continues and the media goes along the number of men and women that suffered head injuries from the return fire. Interesting the media appears to want to stay away in the same way it failed to report Kim fired two missiles the other day. Did love Trump saying the injured just had head aches and not concussions. He makes light of everything from the man that had bone spurs. Back then I think all the rich kids had bone spurs. We should have never been in Afghanistan in the first place and this is just us leaving with our tails between our legs. Never any thought like invading Iraq of jumping in and then what? No, this is not just a campaign promise, this is Trump believing like Kissinger getting the Nobel Prize right before the election. It is always about him and more him. In the Vietnam Peace deal it should be noted the North never came and collected only Henry. The reality as soon as we are gone the Taliban are the government why else were they left out of the discussions. Another joke like meeting Kim. Does he still send love letters or have they stopped. Jim Trautman
4
Wow. We learned nothing from Nixon's retreat from Vietnam. But this is worse. Vietnam wanted us gone. The Taliban wants us dead and will harbor those who want the same. Not to mention our moral obligation to the people we're leaving in their clutches.
6
EXACTLY. Can I vote this up x10?
Surprise. Simply another Trump deal gone bad. Par for the course.
4
I am very distressed, but not surprised, that violence has not left Afghanistan, and that the Taliban is not honoring the agreement.
But I don't believe we can fix it. We have spent trillions of dollars and thousands of lives in Afghanistan. It's time to leave. As gracefully as we can, but it's time for us to leave.
Operation Frequent Wind: Saigon, April, 1975
Operation Frequent Windbag: Kabul, April, 2020
We know who the last combat casualties were in Vietnam (3 USMC left behind after attack on on Koh Tang Island, Cambodia during Mayaguez rescue, May, 1975).
Who wins that distinction this time around?
2
That was quick! Only a week for the Taliban to show the "deal" was a complete scam. Erdogan would be proud of them.
4
This was always going to happen. The Taliban have negotiated with the U.S. purely as a way to get U.S. troops out of Afghanistan without needing to drive them out. There's no way they're going to engage in negotiations with the internationally recognized Afghan government, except perhaps as a way to formalize their surrender, but I suspect not even that. The Taliban are crowing that they've won because they believe that soon they'll control Afghanistan. For the United States, the only question is, should we have consented to this? Because in practice we have.
2
Despite the "good talk" Trump had with a Taliban leader, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, a co-founder of the Taliban and head of their political office in Qatar, the agreement signed last Saturday between the US and the Taliban lays out merely a timetable for the final withdrawal of American troops from Afghanistan.
It explains why the Taliban launched “at least 76 attacks across 24 Afghan provinces” barely was the ink dry on the agreement.
It just shows how worthless this deal is, and how senseless it was to deal with them, because those who negotiated with the Americans aren’t the ones who call the shots on the ground.
Remaining is no option, and Trump is desperate to leave Afghanistan, because he wants to show his supporters that he’s seeking to deliver on his 2016 pledge, ahead of the November elections.
4
@J. von Hettlingen The Afghan people are left to be crushed. Again. The Taliban troops hiding in Pakistan are probably already back on their home ground.
1
The propadanda machine aka the Western press has done a supremely successful job over the years in characterizing the Taliban as a despicable gang. But, look at the numbers. The US, by invading Iraq and starting a losing war in Afghanistan, has killed many tens of thousands more innocent civilians than the Taliban ever did. In addition, the US has created a modern refugee crisis that the world has not seen in centuries, a crisis that will result in the displacement of millions.
1
This is what happens when you make "peace" with one side of a conflict. Is there anything this administration knows how to do correctly?
7
Listen to the tape of Nixon talking to Henry Kissinger prior to the 1972 election which he easily won. He says "I don't care what happens to Vietnam, after the election." Deal signed after the election and it is history. He knew and Kissinger knew what the outcome was going to be. As a Vietnam vet fighting and doing what your country wanted of you showed how much he and Kissinger really cared. Just winning an election and politics as usual to him. The King is exactly the same except he never has to feel bad about that bad since he never served to busy playing tennis and golf. Lets stop the tap dancing this deal is just to get the US out of Afghanistan and win him the Nobel Prize prior to the election. If he does he will be one more thing cheapened like the Medal of Freedom and everything else he touches. Yes, we should as I argued never have been there in the 1st place another political game. There are all sort of secret sections we are not allowed to see and the media just plays his song about how wonderful the deal is. Save face or whatever. It is know the government of Afghanistan was never involved and the Taliban claim they can attack them at will not part of the deal. But, without asking they are to release over 5,000 prisoners. if Obama came up with this deal Trump, Mitch and the rabble would be yelling what a traitor. Just think what they would say he is inviting to meet them and talks lovingly on the phone. Traitor they killed thousands. Jim Trautman
5
You mean we can't trust the Taliban? They are such good people, full of religious zeal and living a life that doesn't suffer from evil consumerism that is killing Earth. We should all be like them, no?
2
When will the “winning” cease?
Making the Taliban Great Again...
Mission accomplished, Donald!
The Art of the Deal, Donald style...
3
Shocking.
Except the opposite of that.
1
Didn’t see this coming.
1
I agree with Montessahall. Then there is the actual agreement, Trump’s actual conversation and what was told to the combat leaders in the field. I gather from the article that if anyone knows, they’re not saying. Probably in Trump’s super-secret NSA vault with the others such as Putin’s conversation, confiscated translator’s notes, etc. Who thinks it won’t get worse.
3
First the Kurds, now the Afghans. The blood of former U.S. allies flows in the dust, further eroding our nation's geopolitical credibility.
This type of "diplomacy" puts Trump's political interests first and "America" last!
4
In every country, there are struggles between religious, cultural, political, economic groups. Life is struggle. There is no FREE anything. If one group fails to struggle for its view, it will be overrun. The Afghani's in Kabul who like the good life, the American cash, and the avoidance of struggle and sacrifice do NOT pick up their game, they will be crushed. Power comes from sacrifice and struggle for power and dominance. Reality!
It's not a rational thing, it's Nature. The US has tried to use a military solution but change requires the Afghani's to own the future. They have been busy counting the American loot. Selling drugs, hoping for someone else to sacrifice. Their time is near.
1
This will exactly like every other peace agreement that America has been part of. In World War I Germany was left bankrupt and starving, In World War II we abandoned Berlin and most of East Germany, leading to the division of the country for more than 50 years. In Korea there is an armistice and no real peace. After 10 years of war in Vietnam, America declared victory and came home, leaving South Vietnam without support after Congress refused to provide arms and ammunition following the treaty in Paris. And in recent wars in Iraq we left allies and innocents undefended as Saddam Hussein resumed helicopter assaults against tribes living wetlands and then we abandoned Syrians being slaughtered by chemical warfare and gave the Russians control of that situation. Obama literally allowed ISIS to rise and refused the 3 brigades requested by the Pentagon after Mosul fell to ISIS. The result was more horrific casualties and an ongoing forever war.
Recently Trump withdrew American forces that held Russia, Assad and Erdogan in check. The result millions of refugees.
In case after case, war after war, conflict after conflict we abandon allies, innocents, civilians and our moral and ethical values as well.
Now it's time for failure in Afghanistan. The government forces will be slaughtered. The Taliban will rule with a bloody iron hand. The slaughter will continue.
America is not saving face. We're just weary. But the Taliban will be relentless.
4
The Trump administration fails to understand the Taliban and its roots.
This group was created and nurtured by the Pakistani ISI and its military. It is still deeply connected with them and receives its funding from the Islamic states through them. The fact is that Pakistan will never allow a peaceful, democratic government in Kabul. It undermines the Pakistan military's continued rule of the country, either directly or through a proxy leader.
The Taliban who made a spectator sport of stoning women to death in stadiums have zero acceptance of democracy in any form and will revert back to its evil ways immediately. That will suit the Pakistanis fine.
The people of Afghanistan deserve peace which can only come when the military/intelligence complex in Pakistan is forced and held accountable to do so. Trump believes that he has Pakistani support on the peace deal. Little does he know that he is being taken for a ride.
6
Trump: This is the best deal you have ever seen. It is so great that it wasn't even a deal after we signed it. No one has ever see a deal like this before. That is the art of the deal!
4
There is no peace deal, only a deal to get out. And frankly, Trump really just wanted to fulfill his campaign promise to get out, but he has a pathological need to be seen as a guy who gets "deals" done, so there's a "peace deal."
1
@Brad No peace, no deal.
The US negotiation efforts with the Taliban (terrorists) didn't even INCLUDE the Afghan government! We completely undermed the position of our governing ally; the government democratically installed by the people. Obviously these "negotiations were merely window dressing. The 3,500 dead US and coalition soldiers as well as the 3,000 dead in NY are thrown under the bus as a thinly veiled attempt to evacuate Afghanistan. In the process we undermine the Afghan government, making deals without their consent. We should be ashamed.
2
Donald Trump and his administration have never been capable of envisaging and negotiating long term solutions in any conflict areas - Afghanistan, Syria or elsewhere.
It is anyhow a miracle how his staff manages to make him at least partially remember where most of these countries are on the planet.
For Trump this is all a short-lived PR stint as world politics for him are restricted to Trump's exposure in the national and global media.
He has no idea of any potential consequences of his actions and he does not care either who suffers from his complete ignorance.
2
Does anyone remember how Trump and the Republicans skewered Obama for withdrawing from Iraq “prematurely”? Another Trump foreign policy masterpiece.
3
OK - there are plenty of sparks and fire-spitting comments here, but few have asked how the US military is responding to the Islamists' duplicity.
We should remember, one of the key factors toward a US pull-out was acceptance of the deal by the Afghan government, AND no further attacks by the Taliban...
CM (below) points out the obvious.
When the US states that it does not negotiate with terrorists or ransom-brokers, then starts to negotiate with the Taliban (which is both), we should expect duplicity at least on the side of the Islamists. I'm sure that Mr Trump and his advisers anticipated this
But the US military said also, that they would punish duplicity...
As Trump says: Let's see what happens now
This “peace accord” only serves Trump as a political ploy to be able to proclaim his success in ending the endless wars as promised.
2
A commenter suggested 2 years between U. S. departure and Taliban takeover. It will be 2 months at most. And it will be bloody. And Trump will be blamed. But Trump will for once be right not to go back in. OK. Maybe he's been right 2 or 3 times. Wrong 10,000 times.
@Kenneth "not to go back in." Seriously? The fraud hasn't been in the position to make that decision, and his "deal" means he won't be.
Once we've left, here is no going "back in".
1
History repeats itself even before it is becoming history.
Betrayal of Kurdish allies comes to mind.
Now secular Afghans are sold.
Who knew Rabid jihadist cannot faithful to their promises.
I am so missed Biden Presidency.
1
Just because Trump is the worst president ever it does not mean we shouldn't leave. We should leave.
Trump obviously rushed to get headlines that would make him look effective at ending Afghan war. Just as he rushed to claim denuclearization of North Korea, a Wall paid for by Mexico and perfect call to Zelensky as he tried to smear Biden - Trump has a pattern of shallow self-interest generating dumb policies that make America look foolish.
No with covid-19, the failure of prompt preparation, especially with testing/screening was covered up by a Trump’s hysteria about calming the stock market which could threaten his 2020 boast.
Homeland security, domestic & global is being degraded by this president. Shame on him.
1
A show of hands please. Who didn't see this coming?
It is not too late to hurt them before we leave. Damage the opium crop and you damage the Taliban and the entire radical Islamist 'community' in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Put the cost of their actions back on themselves.
Hasn't the US learned by now that the Taliban can't be trusted?
2
Trump's world policy is wrong, will be remembered as gross failure.
What he is doing ending war looks right, but he is wrong, his way is wrong, there fore a right thing to do becomes wrong.
Some formulated this as "everything Trump touches dies."
1
Afghanistan as been a land of violence since time immemorial. The Pashtns and other tribes people (Tajik, Hazara, Uzbek, Aymāq, Turkmen, Baloch, Pashai, Nuristani, Gujjar, etc.) are all sublimely ignorant, corrupt and violent. They kill each other off when not banding together to kill invader countries. Alexander couldn't subdue them. The neighbor states (Assyrians, Persians, Mongols, others) defended against their incursion at their borders. The Russian Czars and British Raj lost whole armies in this woe begotten hole. The USSR went bankrupt trying to bring peace to these brigands. Pakistan today is unstable because of the Afghans.
After 18 years, the US has nothing to show for our time in this abyss. The tribes don't want us. They certainly don't need us. Put you hand in a pail of water, then pull it out, and look for the hole. This is the nature of time spent in Afghanistan.
1
This was such a transparent political ploy by Pompeo and Trump to have something to boast about pre-election. Depending on the word of the Taliban is like depending on the word of Kim Jung Un.
1
The Trump doctrine is “Always abandon your allies.”
1
Donald trump's words are less than meaningless.
1
These so-called “peace agreements” deny the reality of a key fact: this is a paid *job* for the Taliban terrorizing the Afghans - like jobs everywhere there’s compensation, healthcare and other benefits. Religious beliefs come in a distant, poor second.
Hence, negotiating a peace agreement that doesn’t include paid jobs - say to rebuild villages - is never going to be meaningful or effective. But, hey, it sounds good, huh?
And we should also be clear that Trump has no moral issue abandoning the Afghans; just ask the Kurds in Syria.
Who would have thought that a terrorist organization wouldn't keep their word??
1
This is another ‘’Kim Jong Un’’ moment.
Playing for the cameras...
2
So wait.... surrendering to the enemy means you don’t get what you want? In trump world i guess everything makes sense
2
Know when to hold 'em, when to fold 'em. We don't have a hand, never did, once bin Laden fled the country. The Taliban? We should be negotiating with Pakistan, not these thugs, proxies for the Pakistani security service. Just as the Saudis funded the jihadis in Afghanistan, to keep them at bay(after schooling them in Whahbinism), the Pakistanis have been trying to keep the radicals in their own country happy by sending their blood lusting thugs over to Afghanistan. Know when to hold 'em, or how about never hold 'em? Then you don't have to fold 'em.
1
There will never be an agreement with the Taliban which reduces the Taliban's use of violence to gain power not matter what is written on paper. News media and US officials keep referring to the Taliban as if it was a centralized organization under some unified command. That is not the case and it is unlikely that all the factions will agree to terms negotiated with the US or the Afghan government.
1
Sadly, the only real question is how bad the blood bath will be. It was thought that the Taliban's desire for the continuation of international aid would temper any impulse for revenge. Now, I'm not so sure.
4
I note the picture accompanying this story where everyone runs amuck with guns to settle their differences. This is a picture foretelling the future of our nation where every difference over religion, race, healthcare, government, immigration, our environment, and what-have-you is settled with a gun and guns are had by everyone and anyone as a notion of ones rights taken to absurdity.
If the argument for guns is supposedly for ordinary citizens to protect themselves from the evils of others and the government, who then protects us from those with the guns?
In the old west (the parts of the country most fervent about having a gun), their people and government measured their progress on the road to being civilized by when the sheriff in town was able to make people hang up their guns when they came to town. Today, they seem to measure it by how freely people can walk around with a gun.
The ultimate lesson of Afghanistan may not be how difficult it is to bring peace to that country but how easy it might be for our nation to become just like them.
10
1. Of course withdrawal now leaves Afghanistan to the Taliban.
2. But then, what’s the alternative plan. Almost twenty years of war, and at any point during this time point 1 would have been true. What’s the plan to change this?
1
It's been predictable that once the US ended its presence in Afghanistan the Taliban would move swiftly to crush the regime in Kabul and regain control of the entire country. Indeed, it now looks like the US-backed regime in Kabul will suffer a fate similar to that of the American-backed government in Saigon (now Ho Chi Minh City) after the North Vietnamese Army swept through South Vietnam in March / April 1975.
3
I do not like Trump and it does not mean I should be critical of every action of his.
In fact I will call his action of withdrawing from the unwinnable conflict is bold and logical.
American got in to a tactical cul-de-sac naively trusting Pakistan. Taking Washington's dollars but supporting its opponents, Pakistan certainly played to perfection the ‘run with the hounds hunts with the fox “.
Earlier when Taliban was on defensive Pakistani aid and sanctuary ensured that the Taliban would have the space to regroup physically, politically, militarily, and organizationally.
It’s no exaggeration to call Pakistan's policies as duplicitous, are prone to exaggerating their implications as the most important factor in the war.
If Pakistan thinks it has managed to get geo political Holy Grail and expect Taliban to return the favor, it will be in for a huge shock.
"Feed a snake as much as you can, but don't expect faith from it. Feeding is your nature, don't leave it. Biting is its nature, don't expect faith from it."
3
Okay, that went well. Understanding Wahhabism and extreme Sunni Islam is key to understanding the Taliban. They are relentless and their goal is to re-take control of Afghanistan and impose Sharia Law.
There isn't going to be any compromise or abiding by interim peace deals. They have the luxury of time and home turf. If the Taliban cannot win outright, they will continue to keep the U.S. mired in war, while exacting more American blood and treasure.
1
Who's surprised at this?
Trump sold out the Afghans fought for what we're supposed to believe in just as he did the Kurds.
At least this time he didn't live American soldiers running for their lives...
2
So, hmmm.., let's see: Trump has made the Afghanistan, Iran, N. Korean situations worse and more dangerous with his incompetent diplomacy. What's next: undercutting the US ability to respond to a new pandemic? Oh, he already did that.
4
So the Trump Administration signed an agreement with the Taliban, an accord to which the Afghan government was not a party or not accepting of the terms. It's an agreement that's pretty much DOA and INO. It's not going to work out well for any stakeholder, be they local, political, regional, or global.
There is not a perfect or easy solution, but this Administration's willful naivete in pursuit of a quick "deal" truly defies understanding. Only the sycophants, the weak and the meek are kept on. I look forward to Mr. Bolton's book. Perhaps Gens. Kelly and Mattis will follow with equally public disdain--hopefully before November!
2
For those who envisioned a democratic/secular/inclusive Afghanistan, the dream is over, but the nightmare for those who fought with the West is just beginning, because Trump has insured that every Afghani will be ruled by Sharia Law(.)
How will NATO repay those it convinced, with money and power, that they will be treated fairly(...?)
Another "Islamic State" aka Iran is now a reality, after almost 2 decades of ignorance(.)
1
The Taliban has won, they need not make any changes in how they take over their country. Another lost war on the Trump scoreboard. I am so sad and terrified for the women and forward thinkers in Afghanistan. Looks like civil war. So much winning....
2
We leave, the Taliban takes over, they abuse their fellow Afghans, it becomes a safe haven for radical terrorists, who eventually attack and kill Americans and Westerners, so we send our military complex and derivatives to deal with them. It's one of our popular ways of doing business.
1
I think we should dissolve the Afghan state, expel it from the UN for the Taliban’s intransigence and ignorance of belief in equality of rights! They can fix things then, perhaps, get re-admittance!
1
After all these years the American public is tired of this never ending unwinnable war, just want our troops out of there, and leave the Afghani's to their own fate, what ever that might be. Truly a sad end
2
Correction. Nobody so far is leaving Afghanistan until any peace is approved by the Afghan government and the Taliban stands down.
From the picture -- I hope they have the safeties on pointing those Russian AKs down at the kids like that.
Anyone - ANYONE - who thinks that the Taliban will fulfill their promises, is dreaming in not just color but technicolor!!
They are among the most duplicitous. Besides having a loose central command, most of their field units are independently bloodthirsty.
It is almost certain that Afghanistan will remain in the violent quagmire that has been its hallmark.
Let’s forget about an Afghan state. Leave certain places to Taliban. Pour money into Kabul. Build a twenty foot wall around it, like the Chinese once had! Leave the rural hinterland to look after itself.
Taliban may not be substantively unified as ‘the’ Taliban.
i think we just added another few pages of lies to the ongoing Afghan papers.
Trump is not only incompetent but as usual selfish. His move is thought to gain votes by bringing troops home in some way or another, impulsively by selling to his gullible base the idea of “promises kept”. It remembers me the infamous wall (paid by us) that is already crumbling at the border with Mexico, the healthcare plan that after 4 years is still a dark mess or the tax cut for “all”.
This liar is the laughingstock of the world.
1
You lost me at "Trump said...."
With buffoon like Trump at the other side of the chessboard it was not much difficult for the Taliban to outplay and putwit Trump and resume the old familiar game of violent insurgency back home under the cover of a lopsided and illusive peace deal.
1
Trump has no one's back...except Putin's.
I am anti war. I believe these wars are immoral, illegal, and corrupt. Even so, when you promise to have someone's back, you have their back.
Trump is a traitor to his country, a betrayer of his business associates, and a betrayer of anyone he ever makes any agreement with.
4
Violence trumps up...
1
So we don't negotiate with terrorists.....until we do. Trump gets to pat himself on the back, and people in Afghanistan get to die.
1
This peace deal is a US face saving measure to meet a Trump campaign promise, nothing more. I would suggest that within a 2 year period, the Taliban will be in charge of Afghanistan.
177
@roark
I give it two months.
But the risk is bigger. What if they destabilise Pakistan which has the nuclear bomb?
19
I got the under on six months.
13
@roark
Of course the Taliban will take control. That will happen if we leave now, or waste another ten years,billions of dollars, and pointless deaths.
4
This is Taliban peace. Trump never sought Afghan government approval for his last minute retreat deal. Once coalition troops are gone religious rules will come down hard on everyone but especially on women & girls. Trump only announced Taliban deal to distract from his complete mismanagement of the Coronavirus pandemic. He fired all White House global pandemic advisors last year and cut the CDC budget. He asked for more CDC cutbacks this year. Trump is incompetent, please understand that!
204
Trump praised himself for reaching a deal with the Taliban that included a promise of "no violence". This was destined to be broken before the ink on the deal had dried. In return, Taliban leaders have been invited to a weekend of golf at Mar a Lago.
98
@Jeff M Yes, well considering we made a drone strike against them today, that so-called “deal” is over.
1
Whether it's the Kurds in Syria or the Afghans, Trump has cultivated the habit of selling out on the US's allies. The only beneficiary is Russia, which has been emphasizing its reliability to its allies in, for instance, Syria.
I'm a rationalist, and I dislike conspiracy theories as they offend against Occam's razor; but Trump makes it really hard for me, in so many ways; and having to try hard not to subscribe to the idea that Trump is some sort of Putin client is yet another difficulty the man makes for me.
20
@Steven Rhodes
Trump is incompetent, surrounds himself with bootlickers who are too cowardly to be honest, and Putin takes advantage of it.
Like Viet Nam, the US is de facto handing back the country to the forces we were unable to defeat over two decades.
2
@Steven Rhodes
So you have forgotten how Obama allowed Assad to stay in power (redline) and opened the door for the Russians. Convenient
@Steven Rhodes Not unlike what the US did to the South Vietnamese government in 1975.
As Stormy put it, “Another messy withdrawal”.
18
@Malcolm Jenkins
The Canadians will certainly send more troops. NOT!
...from an unprotected area, as it were.
A deal put together under the auspices of Donald Trump has GOT to be fatally flawed. It's his reverse Midas touch.
22
The Afghans will have their country the way they want it to be. This outcome was obvious and unavoidable from the first US involvement and is identical to the results achieved by the British and USSR.
2
The Afghans should consult with the Kurds regarding how dependable any agreement signed by Trump is.
20
President Trump's deal with the Taliban is no different than the deals during the Vietnam War. The only reasonable course of action is to just leave. You cannot fight someone else's civil war. We are wasting lives and resources by staying.
11
@Albert Dukes I understand the historians say The Vietnam War was more of a proxy war the U.S. had with the U.S.S.R. using the Vietnamese as the pawns in the game.
2
@LT And China, right next door.
The slaughter after the fall of Saigon will be replicated.
We should have been expediting visas for those who helped us and saved so many lives, but that didn't happen.
The message is clearly that if you sign up with America in a national civil war, you will be left behind as roadkill.
All non essential embassy staff should be evacuated and a skeleton staff left behind to turn over the keys to the Taliban who will convert it into either a Mosque or a museum of the American war.
15
@Lawrence: Phased withdrawal? Phased withdrawal kills people.
1
@Lawrence " a skeleton staff left behind to turn over the keys to the Taliban" No, they would not fare well.
Get them all out now.
As usual, we can believe nothing this administration says it is doing.
30
Presidents Bush, Obama, and Trump missed the opportunity to create what would have been the one reliable enduring resistance to the Taliban; women. Woman are universally the target of oppression under the Taliban, have the most to lose, and would likely fight the hardest. Look at the stellar battlefield performance of female Peshmerga Kurd fighters against ISIS. We have been in Afghanistan for 17 years, and could have trained literally a generation of female fighters who could defend themselves and their daughters. The Taliban understands only power, and “peace” under the Taliban just means surrendering to them.
10
It will be like the fall of Saigon all over again. Thousands will be killed and uprooted in the aftermath.
6
If history is any measure, the Taliban, an internal insurgency, will quickly prevail once the U.S. presence is out of the country. It’s a sad fact that the Afghan people will continue to suffer long after this story is no longer “newsworthy”.
66
@the doctor Same as happened after the Russians left.
8
@the doctor Afghans need to be able to fight for their own country, or perhaps you'll find out that they'd prefer the Taliban, especially with the US military gone. We can't even agree on liberty and equal protection the USA, so it's not surprising a country like Afghanistan isn't in love with the western values modern American educators teach our children is the worst.
1
There is no way "good" peace could be reached in Afghanistan. Two options possible: cut and run, and indefinite propping of the puppet government. I'm grateful that our President took the first option showing the leadership and great courage needed to do it. I have no doubt would it be Biden as president at this time we would have four more years of festering in Afghanistan.
2
This area has been at war for all recorded history. Let's leave, and let the chips fall where they may. They like to fight, let them fight.
9
Does anyone really believe if we stayed there another 20 years the outcome would be different. We should have departed Afganistan once Al Qaeda was on the run. We have no interest in who governs this country as long as they do not harbor terrorists. We abused our military men and women long enough. Home is where they belong.
6
Boy, couldn't see that coming! Another "best ever in American history" negotiation from President "Art of the Deal." Can North Korea be far behind?
26
I'm curious as to the source of who initiated any of the actions here. Does the Times have reporters on the ground or are they just interviewing sources from a safe distance?
3
Special of the day on the menu of the U.S. Embassy, Kabul:
Bug out burger, with shredder cheese. Served with a large order of lies or Tali-tots, along with your choice of Dr. Chopper or Water Under The Bridge.
Tomorrow's Special: Rocket of Lamb
Please note: All food from this point forward will only be prepared to go.
2
Once again American leaders are racing off in pursuit of a political fantasy, without the slightest idea how it might be brought about.
8
I guess that it is Afghanistan’s war. Why do we need to spend more money and lives to change that situation?
4
Here we go again. Mr. Trump rushes into "deals", like the North Korea one and now with the Taliban, for the sole purpose of trying to look good, it's all about close a deal and we'll look at the details later. Sloppy, and dangerous for the Afghans.
10
Here we go again. Another “peace deal” in which one of the key groups was left out of the conversation. This “deal” was nothing more than an ill conceived exit strategy so Trump could get troops out in time for the election. Now getting troops out is an admirable goal, but to sacrifice an ally in the process is cowardly and contemptible and will do nothing to enhance America’s reputation.
13
The U.S. political portfolio is being rebalanced. Another unwanted property has been disposed of.
Unsettling if your country depends on the United States.
6
You’re correct. When Obama removed hundreds of thousands of US soldiers from Iraq and Afghanistan, people living in those countries had to choose what sort of government they wanted.
4
Reporter: Mr. President, do you have any comments on the renewed violence in Afghanistan?
Trump: Well, I'm the best President since forever, and our Taliban friends are tough cookies so who can say what will happen? Might be good, might be not so good. Reminds me of that carnivorevirus thing. Good one day, better the next, and then like a miracle it will disappear! Could happen to the Afghans to if they're lucky. Speaking of miracles, have you seen my poll numbers? Going up like one of little Kim's rockets!
43
Trump wants an election talking point, and facts are irrelevant as always. “Withdrawal” = “Winning”, that is: winning votes for Trump among his “base”.
8
"Reduced violence"?
What the heck does that mean?
Looks like tRump is about to stab the Afghans in the back,
just like he did the Kurds.
We'll have no trusted allies left in the world after this mis-administration.
20
The Great Negotiator wrangles a peace deal with the terrorist Taliban. Promises, promises.
5
Fake peace treaty, brought to you buy a fake president. Don't worry, he'll spin it to his base and they will cheer, because who cares about reality?
29
Remember Trump's big peace deal with North Korea? Here we go again.
7
@Robert F: He 'solved' Korea, didn't he?
1
Trump gets rolled again. Mr. "Art of the Deal" shows again that he can be bamboozled by dictators and terrorists.
Trump has once again made America weaker and the only country that has gained strength on the world stage is Putin's Russia.
16
Trump’s answer to everything is, “We’ll see what happens.” That’s hardly reassuring to our Afghan allies or the long suffering women and girls of Afghanistan. In truth, Trump doesn’t care one bit about what happens to those people after the U.S. leaves, so long as he can claim he “ended” the war.
5
“We’ve agreed there’s no violence. We don’t want violence,” Mr. Trump said after the call. “We’ll see what happens.”
Whenever we see, "We'll see what happens," we know it's bad news. I suppose this is like the coronavirus (Covid-19). The administration says there's nothing to see here, no one believes
the regime and we all know we're in trouble. We'll see ...
4
But the longest war in American history is officially over, right?
2
Perhaps, and we all agree that the US lost, correct? To win, there would have needed to be some sort of goal to achieve, and we never even bothered to set one.
7
@Andy Not unlike how the US conducted the Vietnam War.
A quote, made several years ago about the Americans in Afghanistan, by a Taliban member seems quite relevant today unfortunately.
"They have the clocks, but we have the time."
16
A thousand years ago, as President Obama reminded us, it was Christians who were the untrustworthy parties in peace agreements. In the last hundred years, as President Obama refused to acknowledge, it is almost uniquely Muslims who are completely duplicitous in their negotiations for even a ceasefire.
3
Ask African Americans and Native Americans about Christians and promises
22
@CM Don't blame Muslims for another sloppy, botched Trump deal. Blame the brainless decision of not including the Afghan government have a say in the final "peace deal". Eventually Trump will do what he always does, abandon American allies.
7
The Taliban returned to violent actions ? Obviously, they did’nt hear the greatest deal maker to ever roam the earth insist there be no violence. Jared will straighten them out.
5
Yep. Well, this is the thing: we lost. We never should have invaded either Afghanistan or Iraq in the first place, and we squandered millions of lives, trillions of dollars, and two decades over it. All the "crazy leftwingers" in 2001 who begged and pleaded to treat Al Qaeda like a crime organization and use policing methods, not war, were right, of course.
Someone has to pull out. Trump, monster that he is, gets at least that. Brilliant liberals now backing Biden, who can't complete a declarative sentence? Not so much. Because they're brilliant, or so they think, which is how they continue to walk into rotating knives: over and over and over and over again.
2
You can discuss the merits of going in, but once you go in you can’t leave chaos. This is now a pattern of the US. Go in, disrupt, leave a state in chaos. Trump is flying the flag of surrender and leaving our allies in a position to be slaughtered. A total disgrace for the women and secular thinkers in the region. And you wonder why the world gravitates towards China.
6
This was not unexpected, it just solidifies the new order that's reversed sound American policy around the world and here at home.
Who wouldn't view this as formenting the same chaos that has produced refugee crisises from Syria to Central America?
Follow the money, ie. the beneficiaries of chaos.
7
We all know that this far down this road, that anything short of a full scale colonization for 100 years to extinguish their religion and crush their identity is doomed to failure. Yes the Taliban will surge and take over, that is inevitable. But there is no good alternative at this point. Keeping a few thousand troops there indefinitely will result in constant U.S. deaths, some Blue on Green. The Taliban has all the time in the world, they only know war on their soil. Get out now and cut our loses.
6
@CJ
The last time the Taliban ruled Afghanistan.. Al Qaeda flourished there, the country became a haven for terrorists & murderers, & 9/11 struck..
.. - We will not be immune from a country left to spiral into mayhem..
3
The Taliban are just trying to remain on good terms with Trump. After all, he has said he prefers winners.
4
This isn't a peace deal. Trump cut and ran, abandoning another ally with another lie - “We’ve agreed there’s no violence. We don’t want violence,” Mr. Trump said. But we know the Taliban began attacking Afghan military and civilians right after Trump hung up the phone and praised the Taliban.
Our security depends upon controlling terrorists. Trump just unleashed them.
12
What is the complicity of Pakistan in all this? After all they were the ones harboring Bin Laden, as if they didn't know.
2
This is the President of the United States:
-makes pals with Kim and takes him to diner, lunch, ?; then Kim continues developing long range missiles, chuckling to himself
-destroys a working agreement with the world and Iran that stopped Iran from pursuing nuclear weapons, now Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons again
-leaves the Kurds at the mercy of the Turks and Syrians after the Kurds did the lion's share of wiping out the Islamic thugs
-is leaving Afghanistan to the mercy of the most repressive religious thugs imaginable while claiming peace-photo op and civilians continue to die
If Trump gets in for another four years, he will continue this routine.
22
@Issac Basonkavich One has to ask "what's in it for him?" Trump does nothing without a personal angle or profit. He claims to prefer one on one negotiation over multi-national deals - and those are certainly easier for his to insert his personal "favors" - though most likely to be some promise of future real estate deals to come in the country of the particular autocrat with whom he is dealing. And / or at minimum a financial contribution to his "campaign" (read personal profits) and some promise to help in a political fashion. And it comes with Trump promising the autocrats what they want in the moment - and Trump is so ignorant of world history and geopolitical matters that he is incapable of seeing any long term risks or dangers to other peoples in the world form his personal greed.
3
Absolutely no surprise that the so-called 'agreement' would devolve immediately and that 'violence'—the continuation of the Taliban's constant MO—would erupt.
There will be violence and Afghanis will continue to suffer, and women and girls are at risk of being oppressed under a medieval regime.
5
Yesterday's word from the top:
"This was probably the greatest peace deal anyone's ever seen. People are saying that there's no violence and I believe it's true. But who knows, right? To tell you the truth...we'll have to see what happens! "
Today's word from the top:
(wait for it) F A K E news.
10
Looks a lot like the withdrawal from Vietnam where we abandoned our allies.
9
@Ian - Not to mention the late '80's, when we previously abandoned our Afghani "allies" to the Mujahideen and cleared the deck for today's Taliban.
1
I support the negotiations toward US military withdrawal from Afghanistan.
But we should not forget what Taliban dominance will mean for the people of Afghanistan:
No education for girls, child marriage, and large families.
Afghanistan has about the highest fertility rate in the world, and is projected to have more than 80 million people by 2050. This is unsustainable, and will generate millions more refugees.
9
@AKJersey This has already started. They were among the refugees that Turkey unleashed who landed on the Greek shores. They are coming where ever they can find refuge and Trump could not care less: America is far! It is going to be Europe's problem.
5
But the Great Negotiator made the Taliban promise to reduce the violence. There are good and fine people among our Taliban friends. They aren’t killing Americans. We are only leaving the same number of troops that Obama did. Oops.
9
From what I read yesterday, the peace deal calls for the Taliban and the U.S. and Taliban to not attack each other. If that's the case, it means Afghan soldiers are not protected by the deal nor are they prevented from attacking the Taliban. How could it be otherwise since the Afghan Government did not even participate in the negotiations.
Either this deal was sloppily drafted or there was no deal to start with, just an attempt to change the subject. How trumpian.
32
A trump pronouncement contradicted by reality? Say it ain't so!
trump's lying constantly, and the willingness of some media outlets to broadcast and amplify his mendacious messaging is destroying American democracy. Getting rid of trump without curtailing the activities of the Murdochs, the Mercers and Zuckerberg is like weeding by pruning a leaf off a dandelion ...
America desperately needs an updated version of the Fairness Doctrine, which enforced the idea that giving a broadcaster license to a segment of the media sphere also obligated them to make sure their content was balanced and truthful. Without those responsibilities, broadcasters are easily perverted into propaganda machines.
31
We should leave. We should have left 18 years ago. But let's not kid ourselves. This has been another disastrous failure just like Vietnam and Iraq and now the US is dumping the problem.
13
There goes another deal made by the Great Dealmaker. The Taliban are as committed to reducing violence as Kim Jong-un is to giving up his nukes. But hey, Trump has some beautiful letters and signed agreements to put in his presidential library, even if they aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
34
These attacks on Afghan troops will seem minor in a few years, after we see what the Taliban do to innocent female civilians.
Even if you believe that we shouldn't have been there, or have been there way too long and need to be totally out, there are going to be a lot of things happening that will be very painful to know about.
8
@jhanzel
So what? We aren't the world's police, and we can't fix all the problems in the world. There is injustice and suffering all over the planet. Should we invade all of Africa to make sure that no one has a bad day?
This is what happens when you send a child to do a man's business. It's amazing that Trump still has a base that believes in him. How many faux pas is he allowed. He's already exceeded any president in the history of this country. It's the old retail axiom. You get what you pay for.
8
Donald Trump’s “peace deal” with the Taliban is emblematic of the breadth and depth of his lack of understanding of foreign affairs, in general, and the Middle East, in particular.
The idea that he and Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, the Taliban’s negotiator, could finalize any sort of meaningful treaty without including Afghanistan in the negotiations is just one more example of Trump trying to pass off ignorance and hubris as decisive leadership.
11
There can little doubt that the United States’ eagerness to leave Afghanistan has definitely made the life of everybody other than Taliban, almost impossible.
Ever body including Afghan knows that the Taliban has used the negotiations to get Washington out of the picture, cut off the Afghan government from its international supporters, and retake the country by force.
US government has given the Taliban an international legitimacy which the group had never enjoyed before. Afghanistan.
The peace talks are merely a tactic to pave the way for a Taliban offensive to retake the country by force and there is no reason to believe that Taliban will less barbaric than before.
A leopard can't change its spots and Taliban is not expected to change their innate nature of brutality..
16
If the Afghans who are organized as the Taliban,and the Afghan government we created both agree to not support terrorists;then have we achieved our goal? If our goal is to create a state in our image;then we need to keep fighting.
Afghanistan has been engaged in an ethnic sectarian supremacist terrorist cleansing civil war for the past 50+ years.
A war that began with humbling the stumbling Soviet empire and is ending with crushing the even migthier flailing American empire. Afghans also humiliated Alexander the Great and Queen Victoria.
This modern Afghan struggle is centered upon the ethnic Pashtun who are a plurality of Afghans. A majority of Pashtun live in northwest Pakistan but they are only 15% of Pakistanis. While the Taliban is all Pashtun not all Pashtun are Taliban.
The Taliban didn't attack America on 9/11/01. And the Taliban hasn't threatened to attack nor attacked the American homeland since that day.
The men who would go on to create and inspire the likes of al Qaeda and ISIS Osama bin Laden and Ayman al- Zawahri were armed and trained by America when they joined the Afghan fight against the Soviets.
Blowback refers to suffering the late negative military political consequences in one arena from earlier positive actions on another field.
4
After the United States used Afghanistan as a proxy front against the Soviet Union, we declared “mission accomplished” and left, which created a power vacuum and allowed the Taliban to take root.
Then, the Taliban kills thousands in the 9/11 attacks. Now, the United States is withdrawing the only substantial military presence holding the Taliban at bay, abandoning our regional allies to a horrifying future, and the American public thinks this isn’t going to haunt us in another 10-20 years? It’s causing catastrophe today! At some point, we have to start learning from the mistakes of the past.
Do you all have any idea how many extremely powerful enemies this is creating? Now, not only do we STILL have the Taliban, but we also have every single person who’s spent the last 18 years working with NATO forces who have been betrayed, and are being left to fend for themselves against the Taliban. Those people are not going to forget this.
8
The Taliban were not responsible for Sept. 11th. Osama Ben Laden and Al Queda were. And he later sheltered in Pakistan. Our invasion did replace the ruling Taliban but they never were actually defeated.
1
" “We’ve agreed there’s no violence. We don’t want violence,” Mr. Trump said after the call. “We’ll see what happens.”
Trump doing what he does best -- making misleading and false statements to gullible uninformed supporters. Yep- killing 15 people is not an act of violence.
97
Doesn't matter , we should get out ASAP. Now the Afghanis have taste of democracy it's up to them now. They will have to fight for it.
12
Homeland had this figured out waaaaay before trump.
His ineptitude is more evident every day.
He is incapable of dealing with anything more serious than himself and the US is the worse for it.
Now, the side effects of trump are being inflict on the Afghan people.
52
This is so reminisce of the fall of Saigon.
34
Or the fate of every other invader of Afghanistan, aka “Graveyard of empires”.
Was anyone other than the current administration expecting otherwise?
34
@Michael There weren’t even expecting anything other than putting a headline out about their deal. It’s a political charade just like everything else they do.
If memory serves, North Vietnam overran the South—and took Saigon in April 1975—after (and despite) the signing of the Paris Peace Accords in January 1973—which enabled the U.S. to withdraw its troops. It seems that history is about to repeat itself in Afghanistan. Fascinating.
43
Donald Trump boasts about a phone call with the leader of the Taliban, as he has boasted about conversations with Kim Jong Un and Putin. It's meaningless. This arrangement was made because Trump wants to campaign on his promise to end our longest war. It seems that after 18 years, Afghanistan is little different from when this began. All those lives and all that money lost.
51
When we went in originally in 2001, we should have kept our eyes on the prize, defeating Al Quadra and the Taliban regime that was giving them safe harbor. Instead, President Cheney and Secretary of War Rumsfeld invaded Iraq and took down the country that kept Iran in check.
We could have built a stable Afghanistan and kept a balance of power intact in the Mideast if only...
16
@Scott Trump's main job is to take the onus off of the three stooges. One wonders who was behind Trump, Bush perhaps, but Bush is not smart enough, could have been Rumsfeld or Cheney; they go way back and deep.
1
@Scott
My recollection was that early on Russia told the US that it was a mistake to get involved in a war in Afghanistan. Of course this was based on their own long involvement there. I believe that Afghanistan has been referred to as "Russia's Vietnam".
Interesting to see Democrats and ‘progressives’ herein clamoring for us to stay in Afghanistan.
Looks like, as in 1965, Democrats are the war party.
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@EGD I see no party affiliation declared by those posting comments.
So, your assertion is based on, well, nothing.
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Another Trump failure, check.
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@EGD Nope. It's that Trump is selling a peace deal that is not really a peace deal and his gullible , uninformed supporter are ecstatic.
BTW-- the US said that we would keep eyes on the events in Afghanistan and would not continue to enforce the deal.
Also, didn't Trump recently send 3,500 troops to the area after Trump announced a withdrawal?
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It's Afghanistan - the graveyard of empires. Unfortunately, USA has learned this to be true.
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Remember when Nixon took us out of Vietnam? He declared victory, removed our troops, and within about 5 years our adversary totally took over. I see that happening in Afghanistan except that I think it will take less than 5 years.
That said, we never should have been in Afghanistan in the first place. At least in Vietnam the turmoil there was instigated by the Soviets. With Afghanistan their issues are totally internal. We have no business intervening in another country's internal affairs.
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@MIKEinNYC
The North Vietnamese captured Saigon in April 1975 because Congressional Democrats refused to permit Pres Ford to send emergency aid to South Vietnam to fend off the assault.
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@MIKEinNYC The Taliban was shielding the terrorist group (al quaeda) that took down the World Trade Center. That doesn't mean we should have stayed this for nearly 20 years, but we had a much better reason for being there than we ad in Vietnam.
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@MIKEinNYC remember when Nixon sabotaged Johnson's negotiations, telling North Vietnam they would get a more favorable deal if they prolonged the war and hurt Johnson's chance at re-election?
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The Taliban murdered 20 American soldiers in 2019.
The Taliban killed hundreds of innocent Afghan civilians in 2019.
The Taliban’s estimated revenues from the opium drug trade were between $600 million to $1 billion in 2019.
The Taliban are terrorists who control one of the largest drug cartels in the world.
80% of the worlds heroin comes from Afghan poppy fields.
Why is the US negotiating with terrorists - it’s always been our policy not to.
We need to pull out all troops from the war torn corrupt wasteland called Afghanistan.
The war has cost our Country trillions of dollars and 2,400 American soldiers.
We’ve nothing to show form our occupation- and never will.
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@JMS
"Why is the US negotiating with terrorists - it’s always been our policy not to."
The U.S. has been doing business with Saudi Arabia, the birthplace and exporter of Wahabi jihad terrorism, for decades. We pick and choose terrorists groups that will return the most profit for the corporate terrorists.
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@JMS Your last sentence suggests America is a unified "we". The MIC certainly has a lot to show for the occupation- weapons sales. I'm not part of that we. I'm just a regular a taxpayer "me" and I didn't get anything out of the invasion and occupation but then again I never wanted nor anticipated a return. John Poole
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The war has cost the US tax payer trillions of dollars plus thousands of lives lost and maimed on both sides.
That’s what we have to show for our 18 years.
Like Vietnam, 57,000 American solders and countless innocent Vietnamese lives lost FOR NOTHING.
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This treaty with the Taliban reminds me of the treaty that ended US involvement in Vietnam:
Our ally left out of negotiations and forced to accept final agreement.
The forces we have been fighting are allowed to stay in the country and armed.
The only party keeping obligations is the US withdrawal of forces.
I’m relieved that US and allied service members won’t be going over to Afghanistan, worried that Afghanistan will become a terrorist haven, and deeply saddened that all the lives destroyed seemingly were wasted for a brief moment of hope for a positive Afghanistan future free of Taliban rule.
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Civil war? The US invaded the country looking for terrorist, that’s why they’re there.
Its a sad reflection on the present state of affairs in that country. The question has to asked as to how many more U.N. and U.S. service men and women have to be killed or injured in a pointless conflict. These people have no love for the Western World, and do not wish to be part off it, whatsoever. They are a consequence of Medieval Islamist zealots, who see our Western Democratic Society as a great evil, and will do all on there power to stop Democratic Government becoming established in that society, because it would destroy there power base. The sensible thing to do, is for the Western World not be involved in this conflict, for sooner than later, ordinary people will throw the twisted religious shackles that bind them.
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Glad peace agreement is working. Thanks Pompeo. Complete Sarcasm of course. If anyone had ever read the origins of the Taliban, they will know that peace is not in the cards as long the Taliban is left in place. When the Russians left Afghanistan, the Afghanis were ecstatic until they realize the extent of the brutality of this regime. Women's rights be damned!
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@Amy D. Women's right? This is a war going on, and America trampled upon peace of the country for no reason. You think massacring people, taking away their home and peace, and making kids familiar with killing people, is justified for woman's right? You are not getting priorities straight. America should have never been involved with Afganistan, do you know how much money America used there? Tremendous amount. With that much money, our economy could be much better. America signed the treaty for withdrawing, but as long as America's soldier, the Afganistan government set by America is not changed, that does not count as "withdrawing". Does not make sense for the group to simply disband after America leaves. America will simply return after they are disbanded and do their nasty tricks to massacre them all. Until the entire government is under Taliban's controll, then America did not follow their promise.
Really sad Afganistan has been in war for so long. Hopefully they will have their own country, peaceful, not controlled by other countries. America's form of "peace" is essentially removing Taliban from Afganistan anyway.
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Another foreign policy failure by POTUS and his cast of amateurs.
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This was a foreign policy error from Bush. No country can colonise, control or change this place. Ask the British and Russians.
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Right, but can be used as a haven for terrorists which we will have to go deal with yet again.
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Another example of Trump being played.
His staggering incompetence always presages dire consequences.
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@Katherine Kovach
Allow me to educate you on Trump's 'staggering incompetence':
-Trump enforced President Barack Obama’s red line against Syria’s use of chemical weapons.
-He has taken a surprisingly tough line with Russia. Trump approved a $47 million arms package for Ukraine, sent troops to Poland’s border with Russia and imposed new sanctions on Moscow for violating the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty.
-He recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. Four American presidents promised to do it, but only one actually did.
-He withdrew from the Paris climate agreement.
-He renegotiated NAFTA to our benefit.
-He got NATO allies to kick in $12 billion more toward our collective security.
-He has virtually eliminated the Islamic State’s physical caliphate. Trump removed the constraints Obama placed on our military and let it drive the terrorists from their strongholds.
-We now have historically low levels of unemployment among blacks and Hispanics.
-The unemployment rate is at a 50 year low.
-He signed the bill for prison reform. Something both Clinton and Obama failed at.
-Jobless claims hit 202,000 in September, which was the lowest level since December 1969.
-Trump has more women as top advisers than Obama, Bush, or Clinton.
-The wall is being built. As promised.
-Under Trump, nearly 5 million Americans have been lifted off food stamps.
***partial list due to space limits
@George Orwell I’m sure the irony of your handle is lost on you.
-Republicans opposed getting involved until Trump wanted to.
-He really hasn’t. And he illegally withheld aid to Ukraine, only releasing it when he got caught.
-So what?
-Not a positive.
-It already benefited us. We’re just rooking Canada, now.
-No, he didn’t.
-ISIS is still killing people and Trump has left them leeway to rebuild.
-Trump didn’t do anything to achieve that specific stat. It’s a result of past policy.
-The underemployment rate is still high, and is it really low or ha e people stopped being eligible for unemployment?
-Obama couldn’t sign it unless Congress put it on his desk. The Republican controlled Congress did not. And more needs doing that won’t get done.
-Donald has done nothing to make that happen.
-He’s also been accused of sexual assault upwards of 40 times.
-Not as such since he’s stealing from the military budget to get it done and keeps getting stopped.
-Lifted and removed are not synonyms.
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Which faction of the Taliban signed the peace agreement with the Americans?
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Wait. Isn’t this a repeat of what trump did to our Kurdish allies? Trust him at your own peril
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Will Trump ever realize he is naive and not at all persuasive nor impressive as a world leader? The Taliban played him in this so-called “non-violence deal” to get our troops out of the region. The Taliban will resume business as usual once the troops are gone.
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@Montessahall America should have never been involved with Taliban. Tremendous money lost. That money could have been used to make the economy grow and help other poor countries all over the world.
The is literally no reason for America to stay in Afganistan. What does America gain? I believe nothing, but only lose so much. Whats the point of the war? American soldiers dieing for no reason for a battle that they have no idea why they are fighting.
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When will we EVER learn the ONLY people who BELIEVE or listen to donnie are his devoted supporters.
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@Montessahall
His mob doesn't care if he lies. They don't care if he continues to disparage the military. Hey, he brought the troops home. You can be sure that's the message circulating among the stateside military bases, home to many members of the mob.
2
Why would anyone think that the Taliban, who when in power rule by fear, would do anything different, with or without US troops in the country? It's no different than the Turks killing the Kurds as soon as we left, even though they said there would not be any retaliation against them.
We need civilized nations to band together against terrorists like the Taliban and countries ready to pounce on the weak when the opportunity arises. We can't do anything under this administration, but the next President should have restoring a coalition of like-minded countries as one of its priorities.
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@Sledge Isnt America a terrorist by your definition? Afganistan would have had peace if America did not attack them right after Russians left.
Why would Taliban disbanned after America made their puppet government in Afganistan? The peace deal is fully established once the entirety of what America made in Afganistan is removed.
It is yet, another political strategy of America if they were expecting them to disbanned. That alone will mean America can attack once more when they are relaxing.
Also, why are we obssessed with Taliban? We can use all that money to help the people in America. The homeless, the poor, make economy better. In california, tons of people are homeless and begging while we spend tons of money in a war that has no purpose.
What we need to do is just declare we lost. No reason to be stubborn for no reason and make more people die. America attacked Afganistan and is in their soil. Dislocated many people, and killed many people. Many civilians ofc have most likely been killed during this war as result of America involvement.
For peace, America needs to completely let go of their control of Afganistan and allow Taliban to control it. But for some reason America prefers stopping some group instead of helping the people in their own country.
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@Abraham
The thing is, all we have, and are, is a hammer.
Also, we never lose, see? We like being spiteful to ourselves and our resources. America!
Finally, because the military feels that there is never enough money for them. So we spend away our better health care and education and infrastructure for nothing. Except war profits.
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@Abraham
The “peace” that Afghanistan would have is the one where the Taliban rule, kill all dissenters, and enslave women.
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If anyone is surprised, they haven’t been paying attention at all. Another of Trump’s “victories” here, meaning absolutely nothing that looks like a success.
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Article is missing the core reason behind the resumption of attacks. Following the so called deal agreement, Kabul government will release the 5,000 Taliban prisoners and likewise Taliban will release the 1,000 Afghan soldier held in the prison but Afghan president denied to follow this condition. Now this is the US responsibility to compel the Afghan govt to act upon the agreement so the Afghan people can enjoy the peace which they deserve badly.
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The release of 5000 prisoners will only enhance the Taliban to continue their attempts to sink a weak government. It is not that they believe they should lay down their arms when their family members are released.
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I believe the Afghan government was excluded from participating in the dealmaking—Trump going it alone.
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The Taliban “deal” was another statecraft coup for Don the Con that ranks with the denuclearization of North Korea. Can he win two Nobel Prizes in 2020? If America wants out of Afghanistan it will have to man up and cut and run. An argument can be made for spending tax dollars on America’s infrastructure while letting the Taliban restore their country to a target-rich environment. When they have something to lose, the Taliban might become interested in meaningful negotiations.
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