I wish the CPC and the People of China great success in all their worthy endeavors. Westerners have been and still are an arrogant, spiteful and dangerous people, especially my fellow Americans.
China will battle this virus and ignore the slings from Westerners; the day for the West being the " know all" , is over.
Name one place on Earth where Americans and Europeans have gone and left a nation in peace.
China builds and America kills- so how can those with bloody hands dare point fingers at anyone??
6
We are talking about testing and self isolation. It is time to realize and we already have a case, self quarantine does not work. people are not responsible. Our problem started in the 80's when many hospitals were closed and now the number of hospital beds is much smaller. We should be able to properly treat and isolate those with positive test and symptoms.
1
The real problem is that China can't control its ultra-rich citizens. They make their own rules and they can bribe politicians and actually be above the law. Do they really think they can buy powdered rhino horn aphrodisiac and drive the rhino into extinction? You bet they can! So eating a pangolin or two is no big deal to them. Even if they transfer deadly virus from animal to man and kill 50 million people worldwide.
The US does not have it any better. The US ultra-rich folks fund think tanks at major universities, come up with legal strategies like Citizens United, buy lawyers to prosecute the lawsuit, and end up with a Supreme Court ruling that allows unlimited money in elections. So the US Congress is now ineffective because it is essentially bribed. US Ultra-rich people have gotten the taxes cut to recoup their investment in buying Congress and the President. US companies (Archer Daniels, Louis-Dreyfus, etc) are funding the burning of the Brazilian rain forests to install ranches, while fracking the heck out of the US under big tax breaks, ruining our weather. On and on it goes.
The ultra-rich worldwide will bring down homo sapiens and are foolish enough to believe they themselves are immune.
2
The people of Hubei province are now learning what it is like to be a Uyghur, as are other parts of China. The ruling Chinese Communist Party had nearly eradicated empathy from its hapless subjects, but they may soon discover that they have simply created more room in the average Chinese for disdain and anger towards oppressive authority.
1
China has moved mountains to stop and reverse the spread of Coronavirus in their country. Meanwhile the wholly corrupt MTA in NYC has gleefully announced that all trains are being disinfected every 72 hours now. That’s right, only once every 72 hours! Nearly 5 million people ride the subway every weekday. America is not ready for this virus and we are in big trouble once community spread really takes off. It’s already happening along the west coast in Seattle and Los Angeles. This is just the beginning.
We need competent leadership and universal healthcare now. Vote in November like your lives and livelihoods depend on it, because they do.
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@Dabney L
you are confounding two different things.
one is disinfecting the subways twice a day rather than once per 3 days.
the other is single payer health care.
both are good but they are not related.
and the politicians who advocate for single payer health care are not good at communicating the plan.
Sorry, bernie stumbles every time he is asked how he will pay for it. he has had time to work out a quick explanation but he does not do it. Lame. I thought he wanted to tell the truth!
3
In reading these first 20 comments, i am struck at how little understanding of China any of the commenters have. At least one of the comments is a 50 center, meaning a deliberate plant by the CPC by one of their troll army. Other commenters make statements implying Chinese public opinion is monolithic.
I’m in Wuhan, have lived here part of the last 10 years, and am still under restrictive quarantine for > a month. I can assure anyone reading this that discerning what Chinese people think about almost anything takes years of knowing them and establishing a very close relationship...and they still will not tell you what they think about any topic that touches political considerations. So, please, stop imagining what Chinese people think.
This is a remarkably complex time in China with far reaching implications for both near term and extended future considerations. The article is filler material. It doesn’t mean or explain anything that actually matters regarding China or the quarantine. Move along folks, nothing to see here.
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@Kurt This article is about the quarantine efforts that are going on in Tianjin. It also suggests that the famed Chinese economy is slowing down. It reflects on China's trajectory. The Communist Party has set up the great firer wall to keep out modern ideas about human rights and democracy. While having an authoritarian government is good for telling people what to do. The money flow from the wildlife trading is too strong for China's legal system to control. Smoking kills but you can't stop it because the money and addiction is too strong. Pollution, fires, and now viruses are our common enemy.
This is a false and horrid account. China is fighting and winning the fight against a virus and the Chinese know that sacrifice has been necessary and can be sure as the coming spring that China will be well and the country they so love again.
The prejudiced New York Times coverage of China makes me want to cry.
China will soon be well and will remain overwhelmingly beloved.
2
@Nancy Beloved? This disease originates from China!
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Does anyone here really believe anything that the Chinese government says concerning the spread of this virus? There could be hundreds of thousands dead or infected and we would never hear the truth.
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@Bob
The CCP likes to control the narrative, but there are so many eyes watching China. Their reporting could be off by hundreds but not "hundreds of thousands." (hopefully)
That's how one fights a war: surround & contain, divide & isolate, and finally annihilate, piece by piece, and on up.
1
As of today, according to the WHO daily situation report and statistics from the Hong Kong there were only 30 newly diagnosed cases in all of the Mainland.
Visually an interesting story. That's as far as it goes.
It seems that the author of this article is against quarantine & isolation as a means to prevent spread of the COVID-19.
Well, I guess that if you have an axe to grind against China, then you will use any kind of excuse to concoct a cockamamy article.
2
Please, before you comment, just go to the site of this reporter's twitter and see how he or she thinks of China. Then I believe we would understand why this reporter wrote it.
As you see the names, he is a Chinese, so am I. I support his right to express different opinions on China, which is what we're looking for. However, as a reporter, don't you think it's really not professional and objective to write an article about China under the virus with such a political view and a sarcastic tone?
2
In the beginning, we criticize China for not disclosing the truth about the virus. We then criticize China for violation of human rights for locking down the city of Wuhan. We were laughing at the Chinese for not having a health care system to handle the crisis.
Look at ourselves in the mirror. Today, our death toll has risen to 11. Yet, we have 135 infected. Really? That means our mortality rate is higher than 8%. Do you believe our government? I don't.
.....I know why. We don't have the test kits. Our government told us not to use face masks. Honestly, I can't buy them anyway. I can't even buy hand sanitizers or even rubbing alcohol. Look at China, they built 2 hospitals in a week. What has the US government done to prepare for this outbreak? We are charging the cruise folks for flying them. We are charging people $1500 for doing the testing.
10
Any virus combined with stupidity , fear and panic is a victor.Crown the Carona. It won. Between it's cleverness and the long term future effects of dumping tons of germ killer into an already chemically saturated environment , combined with the mega tons of disposible plastic gear and its eventual impact on the environment and ensuing health issues for a long time, the winner is clear.
Th good news, some rich people in China and EVERYWHERE are getting so rich on this one , they can stay in office or hibernate in a mountain aerie , above the frantic crowds hoarding toilet paper.
My thoughts, this virus may have been around a while and environmental fators propelled it's resurfacing combined with better diagnostics. Maybe it's the 'croup' with a jazzed-up name?Let's hope so .
2
Here, is an exclusive interview of the leading expert of W.H.O. who just came back from their 2 weeks investigation in China. It gives highly detailed information that could answer your questions.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/04/health/coronavirus-china-aylward.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share
F.Y.I. Unlike the ‘Great Blue Wall’ article, this very informative report that is freshly published today, for some reason cannot be seen on NYT front page, unless you search for it.
Read it and tell me which one contains more useful information that people need desperately right now.
6
Hopefully a great wall will appear between humans and viruses. Let’s learn the lesson and reduce the selling and eating of wildlife. Potatoes, onions, banana peppers, instead of cats, pigs, chickens, and others risky meats. Why be exposed to a virus when you can enjoy rice, potatoes, and vegetables with maybe a little something else? CovID-19 favors smokers. Everyone needs to go on a health kick. Bat viruses attack humans, attack the economy, and attack wages. Let’s fight back. Find new jobs for traders. Help China become known for its green terraces of food.
If this extreme measure helped to control the outbreak, why not? Just look at the result. The outbreak in China is under control.
Can we set politics aside for a while?
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@E Wang
The result was not mentioned in the piece, nor whether the outbreak in the country as a whole is "under control".
If you have *reliable* evidence that it is, especially in Tianjin, then kindly make your sources known. Thanks! (And no, politics can never be set aside, especially when one of the sides is PRC, I'm afraid. Just ask the CCP!)
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@E Wang Exactly.
It never should have happened but for the animal husbandry practice of the mainland Chinese. It’s a form of germ warfare and should be treated as such.
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There seems to be little rational thought behind the placements of the barriers.
Dividing a large city into sections presumes that some sections have the virus and others do not. If a person in a section becomes ill from the virus do they live or die within their section or are they transported to a hospital?
The Chinese growth myth seems to be just that a myth and the numbers of ill and dead are not to be believed.
But the Chinese people seem to be long suffering until things reach a boiling point and then explode.
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@Edward B. Blau
The barriers are placed by neighborhood committees. Each neighborhood is responsible for limiting the entrance and exit of each community, and to keep track of who comes and goes so that if an infection is detected, the healthcare workers will know who else to check/quarantine based on the record. Obviously the sick will be transported to the hospital if necessary.
The number of ill and dead are corroborated by multiple sources and confirmed by the WHO to be reliable and accurate.
You are delusional if you think that China's growth is a myth.
1
A question for the reporters:
I have read that China has told everyone to return to work. Are they moving too quickly? Couldn’t this cause a second wave of transmission?
2
Hi, Trblmkr
Here, is an exclusive interview of the leading expert of W.H.O. who just came back from their 2 weeks investigation in China. It gives highly detailed information that could answer your questions.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/04/health/coronavirus-china-aylward.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share
F.Y.I. Unlike the ‘Great Blue Wall’ article, this very informative report that is freshly published today, for some reason cannot be seen on NYT front page, unless you search for it.
(Read it and tell me which one contains more useful information that people need desperately right now.)
2
All of these unnecessary suffering, loss and deaths are simply because of the eating habit of one country -- China!
Now that coronavirus is spreading like wildfire in the U.S, the very same people are hoarding daily supplies, food, water and safety supplies.
I am angry beyond words!
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@Hendry
First of all animal to human virus outbreaks are common. The US is known for swine flu, which happens to have killed hundreds of thousands by most estimates. The flus originating from China had been more virulent, but less deadly. Even then SARs death is in the 100s. This is literally the first one on a major scale and it’s been predicted years ago that it will be coming and can be anywhere. Why did it turn up in China? Probably because with a billion people their odds are higher...
3
@Hendry And what good is that anger doing you?
3
You have no proof to support your claim, but before you get so self-righteous, realize that the US economy has exported its manufacturing and the associated pollution to China for decades now. Our way of life and the free trade regime imposed upon the world in the interests of the wealthiest oligarchs all over the planet contributed to the spread of the disease.
As the world population increases, climate change caused by humans wreaks havoc, and war becomes the default political and economic solution to these crises, expect it to happen more often. Again, YOUR way of life contributes to this cycle. You are speaking like a privileged racist. I hope that isn’t true and that your sources for your claims are just ignorant.
4
This looks more like a personal opinion of the reporter than the opinion of the general public in China. All the Chinese people I know of are extremely proud and supportive of the measures taken by their neighborhoods/communities.
This is the measure that has to be taken in a global epidemic like this. Would you suggest an alternative of the "Blue Great Walls"? Do we really want 1.3 billion people out and about on the streets and traveling overseas?
This is not the time to bash the Chinese to make the US government look good.
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@Jane
I didn't read this as an example of "China-bashing" at all, but as a relatively objective account of the rather extreme measures put in place in Tianjin.
So many Chinese readers here seem supersensitive about virtually all NYT commentary on their homeland. Is that because they've been brainwashed into assuming their country cannot be criticized by anyone?
When americans or australians read negative commentary about their countries in the PRC press, do we feel discriminated against? I think not: we consider the claims, and take them to heart, or just shrug, depending on our assessment of their validity.
China would seem to need a re-think about how it thinks about itself. It is, undeniably, a great nation. When will it start acting like a *mature* nation in the face of external assessment?, I wonder.
3
@Jane and let's wait and see how the US Gov. Will behave if the infection rate gets to the 10s of thousands and the death rate is in the thousands. Please enough of the China bashing
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@Jane
You overstate your case here, or are perhaps supersensitive to the slightest critical comment from a non-Chinese. The writer was not "bashing" anyone or thing. They were simply observing, quite calmly, describing, and implying differences of "administrative style", that's all.
China needs to relax about criticism from outside. Why? Because it is very far from the utopia it attempts to brainwash its citizens to have unquestioned faith in. The US, Australia, et al. are very far from utopian as well, and we know that, are allowed to think that way. So, when PRC criticizes us, we don't react emotionally or become self-righteous. China's thinking about itself needs to mature. It is, of course, a great nation, so needs to act like one!
1
Completely false and misleading.
Almost all of the quarantine are organized by neighborhood committees, which are grass-root organizations managed by people living in these neighborhoods. These quarantine measures enjoy overwhelming public support. All over China, the epidemic is seen as a unifying moment where all of China unite to support Hubei and prevent further spread.
As of today (3/4), there are fewer than 10 cases in all of China except Hubei. The measures worked.
26
@Jason Respectfully, you are incorrect. There have been nearly 13,000 confirmed cases and 110 deaths in Chinese provinces other than Hubei, according to the Johns Hopkins coronavirus tracker. While that is vastly lower than Hubei, it is still a significant amount, and far above 10.
18
Yet, China reports of NEW cases are decreasing, against all odds. Their methods of containment appear to be working.
8
13,000? I guess you are referring to the total number in the past 2 months. Recently, there is almost 0 increase in many provinces every day. If you look at the curve of new cases everyday, China managed to control it from thousands every day to hundreds and less. Considering the super contagious nature of the disease and the density of the population, it is a huge success in controlling the disease.
No other country can claim do better than China in this pandemic, history will tell the truth.
14
Dear New York Times,
A few weeks back, a NYT article asked us to see how the virus spread can be stopped by the “totalitarian” way (China) or the “democratic” way (South Korea). Unfortunately, the numbers now are not so good for the NYT writer. All sick and death wherever are tragic. We shall not take this tragic event to advance a political agenda. Demonizing China and the Chinese people in this difficult time are not helpful to the fight stopping COVID-19. The virus doesn't care ideology, religion, races, rich or poor.
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@Joe Agreed. Criticism of authoritarian practices supported with good analysis is appreciated, and I have enjoyed such NYT coverage in the past. But don't let an instinctive hatred of authoritarianism blur everything else and lower the quality of the analysis. For instance, let's treat the measures taken in terms of their efficacy as well, not just in terms of the presumed ideology behind them. This would be more helpful to us all in combatting this virus.
29
Taiwan is a democratic country. Our efforts to stop the spread work. So it’s really not about whether authoritarian government or democratically elected government better suited to deal with such crisis. It’s how government and the society as a whole recognizes there is a problem and finds way to solve it. In Taiwan, we use information and policy to stop it. We have 43 confirmed cases and 1 death as today. In China, the government locks down city and people in Hubei suffer (so large numbers of confirmed cases and deaths). And we can always argue Chinese government’s late response is the reason why conoravirus spread so quickly. Everyone can choose what they believe to work. But ideology is definitely not the reason.
6
@Heather
No, there are no "outbreaks" in Taiwan. The cases are few enough to keep track of. An outbreak is in South Korea/Iran/Italy right now, where cases are popping up faster than what the healthcare system can process. What is the response then? We are about to find out.
6
So when will the August Leaders of the Democrat Party vociferously complain about the Chinese putting up all of these walls? I’m waiting...
5
As far as I know, almost NO ONE in China disagrees with this kind of isolation. The only complaint is WHY the government didn't take this effect sooner- to reduce the spread of Coronavirus. Can you imagine the infected cases for the whole country, outside the Hubei province where the virus began, are reduced below 10 these days? Considering the 1.4 billion people there and the high inflection rate of this virus, this was an astounding achievement and was absolutely benefited by these strick isolation effects.
BTW, the great wall indeed had a clear effect to defend the nomads in the ancient period.
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@Nic.J
Nic, one might note that one of those "nomads" conquered a large part of today's China and founded the Yuan Dynasty (Genghis Khan); and he is often thought of as Chinese, he was in fact Mongolian.
I question as to how you credibly state "almost NO ONE in China disagrees" with the lock down in China. Could you enlighten me?
Thank you for any help on this question.
3
@Kenneth Galloway
Ken,
As for the first question. What I mean in my comment is the Great Wall is effective as a defensive way in many conditions, specifically dealing with the attack from small or medium nomadic groups, which disturbed the people in boundary a lot. In this stand, the great wall is successful, if not it is not necessary to build more than 10000 miles through the China history. You mentioned the Yuan dynastic, yes China was conquered at that time but you can't blame the useless of the great wall as there are so many other important reasons to explain, say the rise of the powerful Mongolia Empire. Besides, not only China was conquered at that time, but almost half of the Asia-Europe continent. This is not the great wall's fault.
Second, maybe I'm too arbitrary for my words. I want to say people are very supportive and understanding towards this lock down move guided by the government, Yes, I mean everyone I know, even though this affect their daily life very badly. This article is kind of misleading for many points, I just want to say both China people and government has been trying their best to control the spread of the virus, for this point, there is nothing to blame about.
8
Italy is also locking down its towns. Strange I can't see any articles accusing Italy of separating their country and inhumanly treating their people.
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@Sherry
I read the piece with a cooler head than you, apparently. I saw it as an account of the measures that have been taken in Tianjin, which may or may not turn out to be effective. There is, I think, little question that the Chinese government may be capable of mobilizing "crisis forces" to deal with emergencies more efficiently than other countries. The question is whether it consistently manages to do so.
Some readers seem to assume anything about PRC appearing in NYT must be highly critical of China. Many pieces may be so, for either good or bad reasons, but, please, let's all learn to read with more open minds.
3
China is replicating the many gated communities and high rise condo and apartment buildings with secured access so popular in the US.
13
@Mary Elizabeth Lease
There are been gated communities in China for millenniums.
1
@Mary Elizabeth Lease
Ms. Lease; the "gated communities ..." you mention allow the residents to exit and enter at will.
The article states the 'Blue' Wall does not, would not this be considerably different?
1
don't show this to trump. not only can China build hospitals lightning fast, but walls now too?
20
“The Chinese Communist Party has spent decades pressuring and cajoling a historically fractious nation of 1.4 billion people to see China as a united country. Now, it is keeping them apart.”
What a strange take on events:
I cannot imagine an article on Italy in the Western press that begins “It was only in the second half of the nineteenth century that Italy was finally and painfully gathered into the present fractious nation from it’s disparate regions, and now, the state is again separating its parts ....” based on the fact that towns are being put into lockdown because of the corona virus.
Yet China, which has been a nation state for over two thousand years, and which has held all its present territories since the 18th century, (longer than the period during which the US has possessed its present territories), is constantly portrayed in this way.
What I detect is yet another politically motivated article.
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@Arthur You made a good point, but may I mention Tibet? I don't want to call it 'fractious,' but it wasn't part of a Chinese 'nation state.' And now the Uighur region is certainly viewed, by the central government, as fractious. It doesn't seem as though the Uighurs feel like part of the nation-state.
China is more of an empire than a nation. I don't think it's prejudicial to say that. (Maybe the US is also an empire, from this perspective.)
11
@99Percent
The supposed separatism of Tibet and Xinjiang are way overblown by American media. The media regurgitates their reports, interviews the same set of "dissidents," while oblivious to the massive improvement in the livelihood of average Tibetans/Uighurs and the integration of these regions with the rest of China.
9
Thank you for standing up and point it out... Many Chinese, like me, are quite shocked and disappointed by the endless bias on news, social media and platforms nowadays...especially when plain ‘facts’ are ignored and twisted by ‘ideology’... Many of us are already tired of explaining or arguing about how things really are in China, it’s not an effort can be done just by individuals, we really hope there’s more unbiased voice from governments or media to end this kind of ‘bullying’...
I don’t mean there shouldn’t be critical voices, but at least show people the whole picture and let them make their own judgments, instead of cutting pieces off out of context... A truth is not truth without others truths, people deserve the REALITY, instead of singular truth.
22
Translation of the Chinese characters on the blue barriers would add to this article.
6
@DJR They're the same message in different wording.
'In order to strengthen containment effort, this passage is now blocked.'
The longer ones are more polite, with a 'Thank you for your understanding and cooperation' at the end.
13
@DJR
Another one reads "Pedestrians, take a detour up ahead".
2
To their credit, it worked and Chinese virus infections have been steadily going down. I just don't know if lesser measures would work.
Now that we see the infection in US is going up and apparently the prevention measures are much relaxed here in NYC. Let's read this article two weeks from now to see if the Chinese government is prescient or over-the-board.
39
The most important comment in this article is the effect the 'closure' of China will have on it's ability to service its debt. A credit induced boom works until one day it does not. Because the communists can print money, some say they cannot have a credit crash. I do not believe that. Early in their history, they issued the first paper money to pay their soldiers. On the day the soldiers ceased to believe in the money, it became worthless and the government fell to someone else who promised the "mandate of heaven".
4
China seems to be using the Covid-19 virus to further clamp down on their citizens, to further restrict liberty and any sense of freedom. This is what their populace, even in the face of historic, global economic prosperity, has to contend with.
The global supply chain will not suffer the effects of the Covid-19 epi/pandemic to anything near the degree of suffering the Chinese people will experience.
4
@Slann
"China seems to be using the Covid-19 virus to further clamp down on their citizens, to further restrict liberty and any sense of freedom." is what the New York Times want you to think. In reality, the Chinese people overwhelmingly support the government's response and are more unified than ever before. With the epidemic under control, the restrictions are gradually lifted as supported by science.
2
This is not just about the coronavirus. Controlling the movement of its people is a standard practice of totalitarian communist states. During my life time, during the Great Leap forward, folks in China were not permitted to leave their assigned villages. To do so meant arrest as a class enemy and "wrecker." Many tens of millions were thus kept under house arrest as whole communities unnecessarily starved to death due to Mao's "plans." 45 Million died.
Hopefully someone remembers this as the "blue" walls go up and drones patrol the streets with facial recognition technology and a loudspeaker to control its population.
16
@Andrew it's the old time, men. This is for controlling the coronavirus. Mao was 70 years ago.
8
@Andrew
Need to stop living in the past. China today is completely different. Claiming that China is Communist is so last century. Totalitarian, sure, Communist, no.
Don't you find it ironic that you are telling the very folks who lived through such times and moved on to remember?
13
@Andrew
Odd that Italy is also putting its northern towns into lockdown.
Maybe we should invoke Mussolini ....
31