Bernie SANDERS is the Next President of the United States!!!
2
America is a huge, robust and extremely wealthy nation. We have been able to muddle through with a series of borderline demented men in office, including Nixon, Reagan, Bush I, Bush II and Trump. That is all different now as we face a series of existential challenges, most of our own making due to the terrible choices we have made.
I'm not sure Bernie is intelligent enough to lead this country away from its catastrophic course. I KNOW Biden is not smart enough.
3
This question of who would do better against Trump has been answered. All of the data shows that Bernie is the only one who will handily defeat Trump, just as it showed in 2016.
The problem is that the democratic establishment, the DNC, and the corporate media, including this paper, are so fanatically against him, that they are deliberately confusing the issue to force their centrist candidate to be nominated, just like they did in 2016.
All of this handwringing, declaring that moderates are the only safe choice and that we must choose Biden, a deeply flawed candidate who has already failed to win the Presidency, is not borne out by reality. Centrists have largely lost, not won, no matter how many times you want to reference McGovern.
And the result of undemocratically forcing upon us a largely unpopular candidate who all the data shows cannot possibly win the Presidency, just like in 2016, will be four more years of Trump.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/28/opinion/bernie-sanders-polls.html
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=bxb5S87O23s
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/02/moderates-cant-win-white-house/606985/
4
Bernie's vision for this country IS a vision. Biden, Bloomberg, and Warren have no clear direction that they espouse. Beating Trump is not a vision.
From Senator Sanders' slogan, "Not me, us" his plan is to include everyone, even that fraction who feel they need to control everything. We are a minority controlled country who look after their own interest to the detriment of workers, and those down on their luck.
President. Trump with 43% approval is beaten by any Dem candidate in the states that count in several polls.
So the choice crystalizes. Should everyone have affordable health care? Should we have a saner foreign policy? Is all our potentially talented youth able to get training or education to contribute to their own well being and the nation? Do even the super rich deserve government services they pay for in taxes like Social Security and Medicare.
Perhaps those who isolate themselves,by hobnobbing with everyday Americans may change their perspectives. Such steps unite the country, by interrupting the economic divide . The zero sum games have lingered too long.
It is past time we are respected and become more acquainted as individuals, not as labels. I'm voting for Bernie 2020, he's the one for the many and has the record to show it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3aqV-f7tEo
2
It ain't over 'til it's over.
Contrary to many people's sweeping assertions (or fears), Sanders could well be *more* electable than Biden. See Robert Reich's column.
“Calm down, establishment Democrats. Bernie Sanders might be the safest choice.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/02/26/calm-down-establishment-democrats-bernie-sanders-might-be-safest-choice/
Steve Phillips has also penned an insightful electoral analysis, with more detail on how Sanders can win.
“Bernie Sanders Can Beat Trump. Here’s the Math.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/28/opinion/bernie-sanders-polls.html
Political scientists are debating the whole issue of supposed “swing voters”, too. One noteworthy analysis suggests it's a myth and that turnout is what now matters.
“An Unsettling New Theory: There Is No Swing Voter”.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/02/06/rachel-bitecofer-profile-election-forecasting-new-theory-108944
I think it's high time we all spent more time reading and thinking about alternative perspectives on the election rather than spewing forth our preconceived and sweeping takes. Posting our passionate embraces of candidate X or Y or our emotional claims or diatribes may make us feel good, but they do little to change other people's minds.
Reading alternative perspectives, however, and presenting nuances and caveats, including evidence and links to actual analyses in our posts, could elevate our commentary and make theses pages more worthwhile.
3
Obviously, there are two central questions: a) who is the best candidate, the person who would make the best president and b) who is most likely to beat Trump. The two needn't be the same person.
In this case, they ARE the same person.
Bernie Sanders is unequivocally the best candidate if a voter supports a fighting chance for the working class, aggressive and immediate efforts to address climate change, a serious effort to end the catastrophic waste on the military, an end to the impunity of the corporate robber class that has brought this country to its knees and a thoroughgoing revision of our preparatory educational system and our healthcare infrastructure, both of which are international scandals worthy of a broken third world backwater.
Biden on the other hand displayed inexcusably horrible judgement in supporting Bush's disastrous invasion of Iraq, is a terrible and uninspiring public speaker, has behaved in an infantile manner barely a notch above Trump on the campaign trail (angrily challenging people at his rally to a sit up contest) and has thousands of tons of baggage the Republicans will be very quick to seize on.
Klobuchar voted to approve some of the very WORST far right maniacs to the Supreme Court against the better judgement of virtually the entire field of Democrats and gloated about the error- fraught prosecution and conviction of a black teen that put him in prison for life. She is NOT a moderate by any reasonable calculus.
We need Bernie.
4
My very Republican cousin in South Carolina has told me that he's so anxious to get rid of Trump that he'll vote for whatever Democrat is selected--except Bernie. In which case he'll try to find a third-party conservative. But I don't get the "Bernie will bankrupt us" routine; he's not offering "free stuff," he's suggesting what pretty much every other civilized country offers (at lower costs), which includes a raise in taxes to cover the expense. And he won't be waving a wand to make it all happen instantaneously--it would take years, especially if the Republicans still control half of Congress. The only reason I worry about Bernie is that so many voters have a distorted view of his "socialism," and Trump would triumph. God forbid.
1
I think what will ultimately happen with this election is a new party will emerge of progressives who support Sander's policies and what he stands for, regardless of this 2020 election.
I will vote AGAINST Trump this election but I will no longer support the Democratic party since they don't seem to represent many of my interests any. I will stop donating and volunteering for Democrats until they come up with a candidate who supports and cares about the issues I do.
I was an independent who vote primarily D before and will not revert to my I status after this election. I will go back to voting/ supporting individual candidates rather than Ds just because they are Ds.
2
Gail, please don't cause a "chao" by giving a "kudo." "Kudos" means praise. That's the singular, just like "chaos" is.
I love Ms. Collins's columns, but with this one I have to point out that the virus isn't humorous. Some have died and others have lost loved ones.
3
Always love it when you guys talk. Though I know I say this over and over. Especially when I read such columns as I just read.
And hey! What gives? I'm a LATIN teacher for crying out loud--and both of you (without a moment's hesitation) zero in on 275 B.C. for the Pyrrhic War. How'd it come about you just had that date at your fingertips? I sure didn't.
Well--nice work, guys.
But Ms. Collins. Congratulations. My heartiest congratulations. So you too--YOU TOO--have been "insulted" by Mr. Donald J. Trump.
The man, of course--in any serious sense--is altogether incapable of insulting ANYONE. "Stone cold loser"--immediately and without reflection, the world of decent and decently intelligent human beings takes that for a compliment.
No no--it's our Chief Executive's words of PRAISE that carry the sting. "He complimented me--why? Why? What'd I do? Is it THAT bad? Am I REALLY--a fool? A nitwit? A toadie?"
Four more years of Mr. Trump.
Don't let's go there.
Please, Lord.
Please.
Thanks again.
See you soon.
VERY soon.
I hope.
1
I suspect that for a lot of people it comes down to something like the following:
Biden = status quo / no real and substantial change / no stepping up to do the hard work that needs to be done (in short, a lack of moral imagination and courage (making vague references (lip service, really) to "values" and "soul" is not the same thing))
Sanders = not the status quo / an ambitious embrace of much-needed change (that being something—maybe the only thing—that a lot of progressives can agree with Trump supporters about?) / a willingness to step up and take on the difficult work of engaging our most pressing issues seriously and with critical hope (in short, a refreshing amount of moral imagination and courage)
I just can't understand what is remotely attractive about the way that Joe Biden views the world. Sure, he's a decent guy. But I think it's clear that he does not really see the need for any kind of real change, or any need for real, devoted work to enact values like equality, justice, environmental stewardship. And then, even if you could put everything else aside, he sees no problem with big money in politics. He sees no issue with the fact that the wealthy and powerful can and always do use their power to make politics work for them.
But the way that Bernie views the world? That's where I am, too. I think it's well past the time for being honest with ourselves and deciding to actually start trying to do the hard work we need to do to make the kind of society we want.
1
No matter who wins. Could we please have Elizabeth Warren do the debates with Trump? She would eviscerate him.
5
Trump will mop the floor with Biden in a debate. And if Biden wins the general election, expect Trump's nonstop tweets demanding removal per the 25th Amendment and hounding the Bidens over conflict of interest transactions in Ukraine. Not sure why Joe would want to subject himself and his family to all that--just watching it come down will be excruciating.
2
@escargot Trump has already indicated that he won't debate. This is a non-issue.
2
I don’t recall trump ever “mopping the floor” in any debate considering his inability to construct more than to coherent sentences.
3
Biden is Hillary 2.0.
Honestly take a moment to ask yourself...is this election different from 2016?
My answer:
-Democrats won't take the election for granted unlike last time where everyone believed Hillary will win (That's a bad mindset whether it's true or not anyway).
-More Republicans have become comfortable with Trump and have been alienated by Democrats due to Kavanaugh hearings and impeachment.
-Trump is the incumbent and has the Republican party machine fully behind him.
Conclusion: I would vote for the candidate who will most likely unite the Democratic base.
2
I admire Never Trump conservatives for taking a stand against a popular figure within their party, but, just remember, if we get rid of Trump, it won’t matter much if the GOP goes back to being the same party it was right before it nominated him. In other words, it won’t do much good if the minute President Biden puts out his public option plan, if you turn around clutching your pearls and shriek “Commie!!!!”
I have grave concerns over Mr. Biden’s mental acuity (not his stutter). Most Democrats seem to be in denial.
5
When Ronald Reagan won the election he was 69 years old, the oldest person to ever assume the presidency. Donald Trump beat his record at 73. The performance of both of these presidents raised concerns about their mental health.
Today the Democratic front-runners are nearly a decade older still. Biden (at 77) and Sanders (at 78) also have a history of health issues (brain surgery, and a heart attack).
But the Presidency is an 8-year window. Did anyone at the DNC consider that in 2024 they will be running an octagenarian with a concerning health history? How was that not part of the vetting process?
If you think its a non-issue, or if you think Im being ageist, wait until the ugliness of the general election kicks into high gear. In a year where the stakes couldn't be higher, the Dems are running to nominate candidates with massive liabilities.
@Alix Hoquet - Or, Biden could be a one-term president who uses his four years to restore some stability and dignity to the office after four years of Trump's corrupt, destructive depravity, before moving on for a younger Democratic candidate at the 2024 election.
7
Bernie Sanders. In congress for THIRTY YEARS... but he's not part of The Establishment.
Wanna buy a bridge?
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
9
Why are you talking almost exclusively about the two old guys - one yelling about his glory days riding shotgun with a star, and the other yelling about the revolution?
The Beatles said it: "Well, you know..We'd all love to see the plan." Only one candidate has that. And NYT endorsed her: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/01/19/opinion/amy-klobuchar-elizabeth-warren-nytimes-endorsement.html
Keb' Mo' nails it: Put a Woman in Charge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FciQeRGYFlw&feature=youtu.be
3
These dialogues increasingly remind me of what Dorothy Parker said about Katherine Hepburn's acting skills: They run the gamut from A to B.
If Ms. Collins and Mr. Stephens have nothing much to disagree about, and nothing more provocative to say than to congratulate each other on his or her latest dig at Donald Trump, then this is an exercise in uselessness.
Get two people who see things differently. I know Mr. Stephens was supposed to be a token conservative, but he has been co-opted by the Kool Aid. Right now, this runs the gamut from one seat inside the New York Times bubble to the next one.
3
And Bret Stephens, you really aren't a Never
Trumper if you can't seem to vote for Bernie Sanders.
Really? You would prefer Authoritarian Trump over M4A Bernie? By voting third party in the general election, you know that your vote may help the very man that you say you will Never Support. And Dems should not be catering to gather the vote of weak Biden-only supporters such as Bret.
4
@FarmGirl - Trump and Sanders are peas in a pod - authoritarian iconoclasts bent on destroying public institutions just because they can, and both subscribe to frankly bizarre conspiracy theories. Both Sanders and Trump have fanatical, mean, angry, and humorless followers on social media. Neither of them is fit to serve as president of the United States.
4
The corporate establishment's candidate-casting department has run out of neoliberal holograms. It is now reduced to betting all its chips on a demented, doddering, anti-progressive buffoon-Joe Biden. That's their last best hope, their Plan X, short of Plan Z, which is a cravenly reactionary, crude, pugnacious oligarch-Mike Bloomberg. Having pushed the DNC mafia into that cul de sac is in itself a kind of victory for the left, even if the gangsters cheat Sanders again. Their corporate graft/propaganda machine is a shattered, smoldering wreck, and they have no idea how to put it back together again. Good work, guys!
2
FYI, Bret, 538.com is now calling Texas for Biden!
When I heard Klobuchar resigned, a single thought dominated my mind, DEAL!!!
The winning ticket, Biden/Klobuchar. We have, a salt of the Earth older guy and a younger, aggressive, millennial and more pleasing female.
A broad brush to paint our widening political canvass.
Now with Spring, Summer and the Corona Virus approaching the "stone cold losers" among us will bloom, politic and vote!
Bye! Bye! Trumples!
6
Smiling, smirking, hacking, interfering and meddling Vlad Putin and his primary henchmen Bennie Netanyahu are loving the 'excellent adventure' antics of their mutual pawn pet puppet Donnie Trump making them and their nations great again in the 2020 Presidential campaign and election.
3
The establishment narrative is a zombie. It started in 2016 in the GOP. Now it’s the Democrat’s turn to try and put their zombie on life support.
It’s a fool’s errand. Candidates like Trump and Bernie are actually figureheads for very powerful internet-empowered networks. It’s the networks that choose the candidates, and put the wind in their sails.
Like Trump’s troll army in 2016, it’s Bernie who has a Left-oriented network behind him. In a contest of networks, only Bernie can defeat Trump.
Democrats made a huge mistake by blackballing Bernie and nominating Hillary as an establishment center-right candidate in 2016. The working-class wants change. And Sanders has the network’s backing. Biden will lose to Trump in a landslide.
With Klobuchar and Buttigieg both endorsing Biden (the establishment), it'll be interesting when Warren drops out—and she will, soon—and endorses Bernie. Bloomberg will never drop out—that's a net loss for Biden.
I have my misgivings about the Left network. A lot of Bernie voters are good people. But there is a core of them that is the doppelgänger of Trump’s immobile, irrational and intransigent 40%. The Left vs/ Right network war we are seeing is like watching Brownshirts and Commies fighting it out in the streets of Berlin in 1930—I’m reluctant to take sides.
In my gut, I’m really a moderate. But I don’t think the moderate candidate has any chance of winning. It’s come down to the brute force of networks.
2
just vote blue
4
More asinine proclamations from the NYT. Enough about Bernie Sanders, who has put together a juggernaut campaign and raised massive amounts of money from individual voters. Surely a guy like that can't beat Trump, right? Wrong!
On the other hand we have the illustrious Mr. Biden. This guy has all of ONE campaign office in California. In addition, he is truly senile, can't put together a coherent sentence without a teleprompter. Trump will mop the floor with this guy.
It's a dangerous game the establishment press is playing.
1
All banter. The coming pandemic is the great neutralizer. Trump can only survive by declaring martial law and or suspending elections. Tulsi Gabbard, or any other nominee the Democrats put up, will beat Trump.
This is not an Excellent Adventure. It is an Excellent Disaster.
Trump is a junk yard dog on the debate stage. He will eat Biden and Sanders alive and use their bones as toothpicks.
Bloomberg is the only one with knowledge, skills and experience who could equal or best Trump is a debate.
3
dear GOD - please make them 20 years younger
"Populists to the left of me, Nazis to the right;
here I am, stuck in the middle with you."
Strangely, I'm having a hard time letting go of the "Bern It Down" theme being pushed by a small minority.
I am beginning to believe that, although few may see it, our experimental-form-of-government run is likely over, and it's time for a cultural forest fire.
Regardless, and just like our global climate, the time for a political "something else", relentlessly approaches.
Wish I knew what that will be.
"Bern It Down!"
-C
All I see are two old, white men. Neither of them in possession of a scintillating intellect. Once again, women stand no chance of being represented in the Oval Office. Thanks for the behind the scenes meddling, Obama. Do d you really think you were helping?
Everyone, please please stop talking.
Just vote BLUE.
Thx :)
5
@cindifelici NYTimes endorsed Warren and Klobuchar, though endorsing two candidates was a bit mealy mouthed.
1
An angry elderly finger stabbing socialist.
An elderly career politician from Delaware with obvious cognitive deficits.
The best the Democratic Party has to offer.
1
Joe Biden will govern bipartisan, he will do as the Republicans will allow him to do, he will preserve the status quo, just as the DNC expects he will. He does not have the energy and the will to stand for his conviction the way Bernie does. All great man in history were strong-willed characters who took risks and fought for what they believed in. That is why they succeeded, Martin Luther took on the pope and the powerful CC, he was not a moderate at all. Bernie and Elizabeth are taking on the powerful insurance and pharma industries to make M4ALL possible, against the Democratic establishment which is in bed with the industry and their lobbyists.The hurdles seem insurmountable, but they are fighting for what they believe in. Biden takes the easy way.
1
It ain't over till it's over! We DO need Democraic Party and policy stirring up, but not with Bernie. I have voted for him in Vermont but refuse to for president. I remembered all Elizaeth Warren's learning about how things work when she was fighting for the Consumer Financial Protection agency and think she is the one to deal with inequality and the financial sector and maybe get some things done.
I honor Bernie for putting and keeping the important issues out there, but he is not the one to make the changes happen. No good track record for accomplishments. Plus baggage. Democraic socialism, Independent, occasional Democrat, odd personal history and fuzzy financial and medical transparency. Trump has way too much ammo for Bernie to triumph in November.
I want Warren to win the nomination. She can do the job, including beat Trump. That's the most important thing, right?!
4
I’m being optimistic that either can beat Trump. But...Socialist Sanders better pick a younger and healthy VP running mate. Ditto for Brain Fading Biden.
2
Why wouldn't Stacey Abrams accept a VP nod from Bloomberg? He donated $5 million to a voting rights group she led (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/02/15/us/politics/michael-bloomberg-spending.html). A pragmatic-progressive ticket sounds good to me.
I love the way Gail instantly knows the date of the Pyrrihc War.
We have a 5-4 supreme courts. Trump Wins? It will be be 7-2 conservative. We can’t achieve ANYTHING progressive with that’s so vote wisely people.
4
The whole idea that recent high school graduates, who support Bernie, have a great wisdom than their elders, who do not support Bernie, is really quite absurd. It is an affront to all that we know and common sense to think that the very young and inexperienced have a better informed view of whom should be president. One reason that young people tend not to vote is that their views are superficial and they know it.
1
How hard is it to pull the straight ticket lever this year?
Seriously, there is no reason to put any more thought in it. This is not a normal election. Just vote straight ticket, take a deep breath, and pray the results come back in our favor Wednesday morning.
2
I am a conservative and an Independent. I like Joe but think he does not have a chance. Mike is certainly my choice. Gail, I cannot imagine Bernie winning. Although he certainly will will Texas and CA. He is a disaster. Trump is a shoo-in for a second term if Bernie wins.
1
If Buttigieg has 'about 40 more years worth', that would make him 'about 78' at the end of them.
You think ageism is going to go away in this country? Seriously?
I am with Gail, I will vote for ANY Democrat to beat Trump. I truly believe that he is an existential threat to the entire free world. Having said that, I am extremely concerned that 3 of the 4 Democratic contenders are ELDERLY. Not old, not aging, but truly elderly. On Jan 20, 2021 (at inauguration): Sanders would be 79 years and 4 months old; Bloomberg would be 78 years and 11 months old; Biden would be 78 years and 2 months. I am speaking from the perspective of a 60+ year old who has watched my very cogent, very active parents decline as they approached 80. This is not ageism, this is reality - why are we clamoring to "hire" the old to lead us into the future. I am concerned about their abilities and about our collective psychology - why are we clinging to the past? And make no mistake, all of these old folks represent the past - no matter how compelling their arguments. I am supporting Liz, who compared to everyone else, is a youngster. But even she will be 71 years and 7 months on Jan 20 2021. This is very depressing. Here's hoping that whoever we nominate, they will be able to survive through the campaign and election (and hopefully they will pick a very competent VP).
4
For someone with Biden's history--long-term Senator and two-term VP--to forget key phrasing in the Declaration of Independence is like a parish priest forgetting the Lord's Prayer.
I don't understand why Biden's cognitive decline isn't taken seriously by the people who are supporting his candidacy, because it's just going to get worse. It's an issue that can't be papered over.
5
In the (unlikely) event that US Sen. Sanders wins both the nomination and then The Presidency, I'd like to make one (1) simple comment for Ms. Collins to ponder: Please let us know [after two (2) years of a Sanders Administration] how much your taxes have increased to pay for all of the promised FREE STUFF.
@dmanuta
Most people have 20% shaved off their paycheck to pay for their healthcare - healthcare which doesn't even cover everything unless you're really well off and have a Cadillac plan.
Sanders' proposal is to shave off 8% to pay for universal healthcare.
Something tells me that Collins knows 8% is smaller than 20%.
2
Bret, who's the conservative you're talking about? On the coronavirus threat, Bret fails to mention that the Trump administration is adding MORE red tape to the health emergency by requiring communication go through him and even forcing local healthcare providers to go through the CDC. I agree that containing this pandemic (oh sorry, under control health concern) should allow experts to work flexibly. But Trump's need for command-and-control is making the US sicker.
I will never forget that Bret Stephens has publicly declared that he WILL NOT vote for Bernie Sanders over Donald Trump. Anyone who should (and in this case, clearly does) know better has forever lost all respect from me.
6
The wisest sentence in this column: "But I think the lesson of this nomination season is that voters will continue to surprise the pundits."
2
Elizabeth Warren for VP! Has everyone forgotten about her performance in Consumer Protection Agency? With Biden, she'll pull left. With Sanders, she'll pull right. Not to mention, she's got plans, not just horse-race tactical maneuvers!
4
Here's the thing about Sanders:
Senator Bernard Sanders is a Demagogue.
We need Demagogues.
They play a vital part in getting things done.
Without Demagogue Francis Townsend: no Social Security.
Without Demagogue Father Coughlin: FDR would have ignored working people (at first he rejected the Bonus Marchers) while rushing America into the European war.
Demagogues push the needle on the national meter. They start movements, good or bad.
Norman Thomas forced FDR into socialist-like positions.
Joe McCarthy forced Pres. Truman to start the Cold War, which is, clearly, still with us to this day.
Demagogues bring change. But history shows that Demagogues make lousy executive officials because they believe they are always right.
Beware of anyone – in or out of politics – who is driven by a sense of their own certitude.
That's Senator Sanders.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
2
Neither would beat Trump. Forget for Sanders, and Biden clearly has some age-related cognitive decline. He would do his own undoing work as the candidate.
Senator Elizabeth Warren is the only candidate who could actually beat Trump. She has appeal to progressives and moderates, great credentials on her life story and trajectory, she is brilliant and would kill Trump at debates. How sad that our country is still so male-identified that she is not in first place. I am so thoroughly disgusted that these old white boys are getting anywhere. Sanders is a blowhard and a misogynist who has accomplished NOTHING in his career. Let's say he beats Trump. Okay, not so toxic and death-making in the White House, but a president who is just as incompetent and unwilling to engage in diplomacy. UGH!
1
Sanders a misogynist? Not even on the radar compared with President Grab 'Em, Mayor NDA, or Vice President Let-Me-Violate-Your-Persoal-Space.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/joe-biden-allegations-women-2020-campaign-2019-6?amp
Congratulations, Gail! You made the right enemy.
2
What we have is a Rigged Democratic Election thanks to DNC Party officials!
I wasn't going to vote for Berni, now I am & I will volunteer for him too.
2
It is unconscionable to prefer Trump to Sanders. Bret is deranging himself.
More importantly, I'm getting sick and tired of the way this paper treats Bernie Sanders and his supporters. Every win is painted as a loss, getting massive support is painted as demagoguery, and intelligent conversations are painted as pinko commie propaganda.
Get it together, NYT. The amount of hatred and fear of Sanders and his campaign is adding to the evidence of how rich and powerful you don't deserve to be.
6
I will say this again.
This life-long Democratic voter, someone who went to his draft board and said that he would go to prison before being drafted (even though he would not have been sent to Vietnam), will vote for Trump over Sanders.
Sanders will ruin this country. He is a demagogue. He is supremely dangerous.
I was willing to go to prison for my beliefs. Sanders is worse than the Vietnam War.
17
@Travelers
And such is your right. But I'm still backing Sanders, no matter how many testimonials I read on the internet. It's my right too.
That being said I'm not going to try and hold the party hostage by claiming I'll vote republican. For one, I wouldn't expect anyone to believe it, nor should that really bear upon their decision.
37
@Travelers What do you think Trump is doing now? His people are arguing in court that the Congress has no over site rights when it comes to the President. His people are giving up public land to energy and mining companies as fast as they can.
He and his people don't believe in global warming and therefor don't think the US should make plans to deal with the changes that are on the way.
Why in the world do you want him to stay in power?
25
@Travelers That should read "Trump will ruin this country. He is a demagogue. He is supremely dangerous."
I don't care for Sanders as the nominee. However, should he get the nod, I will vote for him in the general election.
22
Both Bernie and Biden have their strengths. What worries me are their weaknesses. This is why we have Liz and Mike. Democracy, like the virus, is a self-learning system that seeks to optimize its own survival. It’s much too soon to count our “Betsy from Oklahoma” out - she just has to rediscover her voice.
2
I'm actually good with any of the remaining 3 B's or Warren getting the nomination. They would all be far preferable to the dysfunctional and unethical current administration (it's like watching a band of monkeys attempt to churn out a novel, on the one hand, and watching millions of Trump supporters profess to reading it on the other).
I don't think folks on the fence about Trump are going to be the deciding factor in this election. I think it's all going to be about turnout -- and I frankly believe most of those on the more progressive side of the party are so enraged right now there's no way most of them would protest a moderate candidate by sitting it out. Same with moderates.
You either see what's happening to our country and our climate and our one chance to change course, or you don't. In my experience, if you can't see it by now, you aren't going to.
3
When Pete and Amy endorsed Joe Biden, they showed once again why the Democratic Party fails to inspire, and in failing to inspire, ultimately fails to win.
Obama promised change. Trump promised change. Sanders promised change (but got edged out by the forces of corporatism and reaction in general). They had different ideas of what change meant, but they sensed something that people wanted.
This November, Bloomberg can bring change. Sanders can bring change. Joe Biden is just Anita Hill and bankruptcy and mass incarceration and Iraq, over and over again like Groundhog Day, but with a fresh supply of gaffes that never ends. I feel tired just thinking about it.
I’m not going to claim that I know what American voters want. I suspect that they don’t even know themselves, save that it’s not a continuation of the status quo, and even that may be more apparent than real.
2
Trump will "eat these candidates for lunch." The only one who could win against Trump is Mike Bloomberg. Compared to the other two, he was excellent in governing NYC. He proved to be a great manager.
3
My deepest worry about Sanders being the nominee is not about him; but about the lonely Democratic office holder in a
Republican environment.
That office holder, be it the humble city council member or the brave county supervisor and on and on up the ladder
will now be covered with the ‘Socialist’ label. Of course that is ridiculous and unfair; but it will happen. Many of them
should be our heroes ( I have mine) for sticking their necks out.
We need to protect them. At this point I see Biden as our only choice.
1
During the debates, Bloomberg was the only who actually answered the questions. The only candidates just misdirect or answer the question with a canned rejoinder like : I don't want a billionaire that buy the election. compared to what? some one who has always relied on a job in the public sector to make a living and still became a millionaire?
For Bloomberg, the Corona virus debacle may refocus voters decision to go for some one with brains and experience rather than someone who can talk the talk, or someone who cannot even talk the talk, but can bring lots of a folks to a rally to get infected.
I lingered over my Democratic primary ballot for over an hour.
I didn't realize how undecided I was until I had the paper in my hand. This indecision flew in the face of having watched nearly the entirety of all ten debates over the course of the past nine months, despite having read so much news coverage about the candidates. Despite all the strategizing and over-analyzing of "electability" among the Democratic field and against Trump.
I wavered... from Buttigieg to Warren to Bloomberg to Biden and back again. Over and over. Sanders was _never_ on my list. The coalescence of support for Biden seemed convincing, especially in the Deart of Hixie. But the impeachment trial previewed the attack ads against Biden, and his mental acuity in debates is suspect. But I wavered... from Buttigieg to Warren to Bloomberg to Biden and back again.
I "spoiled" a ballot by placing just the slightest trace of ink inside one of the bubbles.
I got a new ballot, and quickly filled in all the other candidates for other offices that I had earlier selected.
And once again, when I got to the presidential candidates I wavered... from Buttigieg to Warren to Bloomberg to Biden and back again.
Finally, with great reluctance and despite my skepticism, I chose Biden — and almost at random I filled in bubbles for four of his pledged delegates from a much longer list.
Before I reached the parking lot I was filled with remorse.
Bloomberg.
I should have voted for Bloomberg.
2
Dems are in the process of re-nominating Adlai Stevenson.
They just can't get out of their own way. There's hope. Trump has the capacity for just about anything which includes losing a gimme.
Bernie confirms the notion about Democrats being so thirsty in the desert they will try to drink the sand.
Thankfully, the wider Americans are wiser than registered Democrats and will not be cowed by the “Socialist or Trump” shaming taking place.
2
If Biden, Sanders and Warren really cared about American citizens, they would support Bloomberg whose accomplishments and experience will beat the hapless tweeter in the WH.
2
I am a conservative republican who loathes trump but will vote for him so he can get more justices in place for 2024 president Nikki Haley. That said, I believe Bloomberg would best handle the corinavirus pandemic.
While Sanders and Biden are addressing the American people Bloomberg is addressing AIPAC. We witness who are the real constituents and just who is being represented.
3
I want to see an up or down vote on Socialism.
And, in an up or down vote for Socialism, freedom wins.
1
I feel as a Canadian, learning more about your politics because of Trump, that Bernie Sanders will never defeat Trump, 60 minutes pointed out his obvious failings....
1
The Dems should just draft Stacy Abrams as the nominee. Love, love, love her. She could run with Buttigieg as her VP. Oh well, I can dream, can’t I?
1
The democrats campaign against former Mayor Bloomberg is just the latest example political correctness run amok. The mayor has apologized for keeping the policy of "Stop and Frisk" in place for its excesses. However, the stated goal of the policy was to reduce crime in high crime areas. The high crime areas just happen to be located in majority Black and Latino areas. So in those areas where crime and violence were reduced than it can be said that the program was a success. We therefore owe Mayor Bloomberg a debt of gratitude, an apology, and my vote.
The next time another black child, sitting in her bedroom is on the receiving end of a stray bullet thru her bedroom window remember it and then caste your vote for Bloomberg.
1
@SBS Racial politics doesn't work that way. Haven't you learned that yet?
Once we're out of this mess, we need to focus on election reform. Let's limit election season to 9 - 12 month, execute instant run off voting, and can we get some of the big money out of politics by overturning Citizens United? It's be great if Facebook would reform their political ad policy (or ban) and clean up their platform too. We need to restore some sanity to our process!
1
As near as I can tell, Bernie not on the radar out here. Press coverage minimal. Best article I can dig out is in the recent edition of The Economist. A good in depth article that validates my disgust with Bernie. A spoiler in 2016, a portion of his support rabid, insulting, focused on goodies like free college and single payer health care. Think Bloomberg is in the race to dramatize the multiple insults and mis-steps by Cadet "Sharpie" Bone Spurs. Trumps venality is not a welcome trait in our US President. I'm hoping for a promising Democratic Platform. Joe Biden as the nominee and Elizabeth Warren for VP. Four years of Joe, with Warren as his "reconstruction foreman". Repair the damage done by trump. Then Warren shatter the glass ceiling, serve two terms, send the Republicans out into the wilderness for at least 12 years. Provide them with copies of the Constitution, the Mueller Report (Barr lied) and the trump/Ukraine House investigative report. Pence can be their Bible Study instructor. In the wilderness Republicans will have time to do their required reading. Clearly they have not done it date.
3
The establishment has placed all their chips on a man who cannot complete a sentence.
Bernie is their worse case scenario. Trump or Biden means continuation of the status quo.
5
I have an underlying concern that one or both of these candidates may not even make it to the election. Nobody seems to be mentioning the fact that Bernie is 78 and had a recent heart attack. A number of people are mentioning that Biden at 77 seems to be mentally fading, but that hasn't stopped him from being pushed forward as the Establishment candidate. Both men want to bring the good fight, but the question is can they? The spirit is willing, but the body may not be.
66
@Bob G.
Yeah what happens in that case, does their VP automatically bump to the head of the ticket? Does the DNC get to choose whoever they want?
4
@Bob G. First, a word about the impact of coronavirus on the campaigns. In Switzerland, a day after the first case was confirmed, meetings of 1,000 or more individuals were banned. Here in the US there is a reactive rather than a proactive response, even though we know there is as yet undiagnosed spread. And we have (older) candidates criss-crossing the country and attending rallies. Not good.
Beyond that, who Bernie and Biden choose for their vice-president is critical. It will be a factor in terms of the next president's health and well-being in their first term. And it is quite possible that the vice-president could become the Democratic nominee in 2024.
6
@Bob G.
There's nothing wrong with Biden's mind. He stuttered when he was young & was never a great
speaker. That has never been
his great strength.
But he is a skilled politician who,
as president, will know how to
improve Obamacare--and get his
bill through Congress.
Biden's: strength is his heart, his compassion and his ability to understand what other people care
about.
Bernie, on the other hand, is an
angry ego-maniac. "My way or the
Highway." This is why he insists on
Medicare 4 All, a bill that will never make it through Congress because
Bernie has not studied how other
countries have achieved Universal
Care. (Hint: all nations that guarantee healthcare for all regulate how much doctors, hopsitals & drug-makers can charge.
They also don't allow over-treatment--unncessary surgeries, tests, etc. That's why universal care is affordable in those nations.
Also, very, very few of them have eliminated prive insurance. They use private insurance (which also is regulated) to distribute care.
Finally, returning to Bernies health: all of that rage isn't good for him.. When I see Bernie on television, red-faced, overweight, and bellowing,
I understand why he had a heart attack.
heart attack.
7
Am I the only one who thinks Bernie's record in the Senate is less than stellar. He's managed to get 3 of his Bills passed and two of them were renaming of US Post Offices.
Reminds me of the great Father Guido Sarducci.. He claimed that the standards for saints' miracles were being relaxed and that two of one saint's three miracles were actually card tricks.
Crazy times... gotta laugh. Vote Blue no matter Who !!
3
Dear Mr. Stevens, even if Sanders loses the party's nomination at a brokered convention, his base will still vote for the Democrat's nominee, a.k.a. Joe Biden, because any half-or-more-sane Democrat will do anything to deny Trump a 2nd term. They would even vote for a one-eyed, three-legged, tailless dog if that is the Dem's nominee.
2
Voted for Bernie this morning. And no matter who gets the nomination, gets my vote! Let's just get rid of trump!
2
When I saw the headline --
"Bernie and Joe’s Excellent Adventure" -
The first people who came to mind were Bernie Williams and Joe Torre --
Now - that really was an "excellent adventure" ...
I'm voting for Bloomberg because I'm pretty sure he isn't going to go on TV every night or twitter 24/7 or even once a day. Nor do I expect him to hector me every time he opens his mouth like the outer borough bro's Don and Bern.
2
So we're stuck with Joe or Bernie. We will see atheists praying in the streets for them.
2
Predictions: Sanders wins California, Colorado (narrowly), Maine, Massachusetts (narrowly), Minnesota (narrowly), Texas and Vermont. He earns delegates (but doesn't win) in Virginia and North Carolina. Regardless of whether it's Warren, Biden, Bloomberg, or one of the recently departed (yay early voting this year!), Bernie is going to clean up today.
Poof, there goes Team Biden's momentum. Warren drops out after losing Mass. Bloomberg can't buy his way onto the big board.
Interesting situation for most moderate Democrats: hold your nose and vote for Bernie in November? If he's the nominee, you'd better.
All of Bernie's Democrat opponents need to be divided into two groups: "We don't think he can beat Trump", and "We don't want him to win, even if it means four more years of Trump."
I think the first group has legitimate concerns; let's continue to discuss them (without hyperventilation, please).
I think the second group needs to be more outspoken about what you REALLY believe, so we can continue the larger discussion of who/what the Democratic Party is and is becoming. If you're more anti Bernie than you are Anti Trump, let it be known.
3
I wish people would stop saying the coronavirus was named after a Mexican beer. It was named because it is "crown shaped". And the beer plastered a crown on its label because it's like, the king of beers (in Mexico)
1
I like Bret Stephens a little bit better each time I read one of these columns. He's funny, insightful, and sometimes makes an effective case for moderate conservatism. Now if he'd only come around to supporting Sanders over Trump....
4
From the standpoint of working class, there’s little difference between Trump and Biden: more of the same pain & opioids. Back in 4th century Rome, Christianity may have spread as the opium of the masses. Today they use the real thing. Status Quo Joe means more of the same. Bernie is the route to a in-dystopic future. Beyond him to the young and working class it really doesn’t matter who wins. If Biden wins the nomination expect millions to stay at home or vote a protest vote for Trump. If lives are t be ruined it might as well be all lives and not just working class
1
Klobuchar will still be around. Whoever gets the nomination needs her to carry the midwest. If you want to see real change, it will be turn out of young people that the Democrats need. Warren is emphasizing debt/tuition, but climate change and Parkland should be the real game changer.
Not encouraging. During the debates very little about climate change--no one described the science (do they understand it?) and practically no questions. There were also fossil fuel ads before, after, and during the debates--mostly gas guzzling pick-up trucks and luxury cars. Is that why there were no questions? In the 50's the news people chain smoked and most of the ads were for cigarettes.
1
Why do people keep mentioning Stacey Abrams as a potential VP? She couldn't be less qualified or more anodyne.
7
One of the many reasons so many of us don't support Joe Biden: This man, who excites little passion except for those for whom the status quo has worked well, has not had an original political thought for decades, if ever.
7
I have to agree with Bret Stephens. The biggest issue with the Democratic Party, as can be seen from the Bernie supporters comments to this editorial, is that if Bernie does not get the Democratic Nomination, the Bernie supporters will again refuse to vote Democrat. Then they will again refuse to accept responsibility for Trump's election. I do not expect Bernie Sanders to tell his supporters to vote for the Democrat if he isn't the candidate.
6
Bret, the problem of the newly-converted is that they tend to be over-zealous as compared to their newly adopted brethren.
1
The days of political parties, pundits and pollsters confidently manipulating the voters are long gone. Voters take their cue from their political encampments on social media and such. Bernie has at good shot at winning it all.
2
I don't think I can stand four years of listening to Bernie. He is an angry man and his policies would have a negative effect on my retirement. Of course, anyone is better than Trump.
4
If Bernie becomes president none of his radical ideas will pass through Congress, no matter if they're Dems or Reps. I hope, however, that he would lead the government to being more benevolent towards the citizens, which is why it's there in the first place.
7
What I didn't expect is having the choice of three men over 75 years old, Trump is actually the "young"one at 73 or 74.
Sad to see Klobuchar and Butigieg go, and also a bit miffed they both endorsed Biden.
Biden has a lot of baggage, Anita Hill is still one of the issues I have a hard time letting go. Joe Biden is also slower and less sharp and will not be able to stand to Trump.
I hope a miracle happens, and Warren somehow resurrects her campaign. Right now, she is the most reasonable choice.
Unfortunately, she is going against Bloomberg's money, Biden's attachment to Obama and Bernie's continuous campaigning for the past 4 years.
Still, vote blue no matter who and flip the Senate to blue, the only thing between us and complete deterioration of this country.
9
Good that you guys agree that Stacy Abrams is likely to be the Democratic candidate for Vice-President.
Otherwise, wait for this evening to count out Elizabeth Warren. If she gets enough delegates to stay in the race, she becomes the only sensible compromise in the event that Bernie and Biden arrive at the convention nearly tied and without an absolute majority.
Because the Democrat's old guard (the guys who lost the last election) have turned their faces against Sanders, it is likely that a significant slice of Bernie's base will not support Biden, in the general even though Bernie does, in the event of a brokered convention. In these circumtances, Warren, a progressive, becomes the most effective compromise. Long shot, but not impossible.
Otherwise, pray that one of the two guys gets an absolute majority before the convention. If establishment super delegates take the nomination away from Sanders and given to Biden, it is a recipe for a Trump victory.
Going forward, in addition to corona virus, are there other surprises (October or otherwise) which may affect the race?
My candidate: Supreme Court consideration of the Trump administration's effort to get Obama Care ruled illegal.
The ACA is in mortal danger. Without it some form of Medicare for All, supported by Sanders and Warren, is the readily available substitute. This calculus may affect late stages of the race.
2
Hopefully Warren will bow out and support Bernie if she performs poorly today. There are so many roles for her in a Bernie administration as long as her senate seat can be replaced by a democrat. Perhaps Treasury Secretary, chairwoman of the Federal Reserve, Secretary of Commerce...the VP spot is hopefully reserved for Stacy Abrams because a Sanders/Abrams ticket would be off the carts with turnout and likely shatter Obama’s 2008 numbers.
4
My ongoing gratitude for your perspectives delivered with the humor to make it all bearable. Get’s me through the week!
2
Any Democrat will defeat Trump...if the people get off their collective lazy apathetic butts and vote.
11
I hope Ed Haywood's message registered:
"This anti-Trump moderate Republican in a swing state will vote Democratic this election, as long as your nominee clears the very low bar of being not a Socialist."
In other words Democrats just have to field someone above an very low bar to get lots of moderate Republicans and swing voters.
But Bernie (--whom I love personally--) can't even reach that low bar. Let's concentrate fielding a nominee who will capture the widest constituency and beat Trump, & not nominate another Jeremy Corbyn or George McGovern.
A moderate like Biden could choose a progressive running or Afro-American woman running mate like Stacey Abrams (or so many others) to enthuse progressives & women & African-Americans (--who often like Biden anyway--) and make feel they're a true part of a Biden-progressive ticket.
2
Gail: Can I blame part of this on a basic less-government-is-good philosophy?
Bret: Nah.
Clearly a trivial response from Mr. Stephens. Except, of course, that it all too often turns out to be true. Conservative distrust of government very often morphs into an unwillingness to put any effort into governance. If you take it as a central tenet of your philosophy that, as Reagan pronounced at his inauguration, “Government is the problem,” you will absolutely not invest much moral capital in planning for or providing good government.
Trump is not a thoughtful conservative by any means, but he is of the capitalist genre that regards any restraint on capitalist endeavor to be at best onerous, and at worst an impediment to personal enrichment. This means that he is ideologically disinclined to put effort into promoting effective governance. His instincts tell him that government only gets in the way of people like him, preventing them from milking the system for personal gain.
I know, I know: not all capitalists are misusing the system. Perhaps so, but enough are that the description is at minimum feasible. Clearly, one crucial role of government is to, in fact, impede capitalists who take unfair advantage. Just as every game needs a referee, every market needs one too. Government fills that role, attempting to keep capitalists from misusing the power they gain from their success to skew the market in their favor.
Good government matters.
5
Who would do better against Trump?
Neither. Both candidates are about equally abysmal for different reasons. For one thing, both make Trump look young. On other criteria, millionaire Bernie looks like a socialist thief with three homes (takes Bloomberg to call that out), and Biden looks like a craven kook who is losing his mind while picking up Ukrainian millions for (and with?) his son Hunter.
Neither can possibly win.
Deep down, this is a contest for Democratic Party control going forward. The Democrats have effectively conceded defeat to Trump unless Trump self-destructs (which is not an impossibility, but seems unlikely).
My guess is that the Democratic Party will fracture after this race, as it did in the first half of the nineteenth century. New parties may emerge from the rubble.
5
I notice how the snarky dialogue between these two intellectual light weights proceeds without reference to the fact that those dying in the US are dying in a very woke State where presumably very woke measures have been employed to protect public health.
2
Bernie would be Trump’s dream Democratic opponent. An angry, shouting Socialist, who, while he has good ideas, has never figured out how to get other politicians to go along with him on much of anything. One who wants to abolish the current health system, and with it many people’s jobs. One could can talk blithely about free this and free that, even though the bill will run up in the trillions.
Still I’d vote for him if he turns out to be our candidate.
4
Time for one of them to make a big announcement. How about "I will invite everyone who ran for the Democratic nomination to be a part of my administration." That should capture the interest of the entire range of possible voters and insure a massive turnout on election day.
9
Gail, my belated congratulations on Trump's reaction to your column! It's nice to know the pen is so powerful!
And please keep the faith on Elizabeth Warren! (It's sounding as if your support may be waning . . .)
1
Not sure how Bret Stephens can say conservatives are pro-government when it comes to public health. He cites Bill Buckley, but it’s Steve Bannon’s “deep state” nihilism that defines Republicans now.
4
Warren is still very much in this race and can bring the country together The NYT continues to dismiss her because??maybe that she is a woman . I have personally spoken to so many of her supporters The pundits and the Times have been so wrong before This is still wide open
1
I believe both Biden and Sanders can beat Trump.
But I believe only Biden can bring the House along with him, and possibly make some gains in the Senate. Biden can appeal to those swing voters and the suburban women that went Democrat in the mid-terms, and they'll feel safe voting for both him and their Dem rep/senatorial candidates.
On the contrary, the centrists and moderates that want to see Trump gone may vote Sanders, but they'll probably balance that vote with a vote for a Republican Congress in order to temper their fears of leftist overreach.
I'm hoping for a Bernie-Warren ticket. What would be a talented, appealing and powerful duo they would be
8
@Carolg Where's the balance? No geographic balance: Vermont and Massachusetts -- an all New England ticket. Not likely to appeal to other parts of the country. And no ideological balance: the entire ticket would be far left, with no attempt to appeal to moderate, independent voters. Sounds like a losing ticket to me, despite the gender balance. Not to mention both Bernie and Liz are over 70, so I think Bernie would need to select a person of color who is a lot younger, and not as far left as he is. The only way to win the presidency is to win at least 270 electoral votes, which means carrying some "purple" states that lean somewhat conservative.
5
@Harlemboy
70 is the new 50
As a seventy year old, I wish that were the case.
1
How about some discussion whether future pandemics would be more or less likely if the earth doesn't warm up?
2
I'm really glad they didn't descend into the "electability" argument.
Nobody knows anything.
1
Warren peaked "two weeks too early"? Try about TWO MONTHS too early! Maybe even four months! She led the Iowa polls last summer, and then started her long, steady decline.
4
I am uncertain who, between Bernie and Joe, would do better against Trump. But as to who would do better for our country, I side with the Times' editorial board statement from January, when they endorsed both Warren and Klobuchar. But that is past now.
1
I agree with Bret: "The voters will continue to surprise the pundits."
2
@badman
Never underestimate the stupidity of the American electorate.
Bernie is colorful and has the moves, i.e. he waves his arms, shouts and turns red in the face. That is why they love him, certainly not for being a great leader. The pundits think that the voters want someone with a degree of accomplishment and ability to lead a fragmented country.
Maybe the pundits will be able to say I told you so at some point in their pontificating. Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds an acorn.
1
@GSS
Yep - it's incredible. People will believe anything. Maybe the HS drop out rate is part of all this - 20-25%, I think? And then, the utter shamelessness of the Rep. party leaders - DJT is a mental basket case yet was allowed to run. Down the slippery slope. Appreciate your comment.
Bloomberg can beat Trump. He is not charismatic, but he is smart and capable and has proven success in life and in politics. He can also attract the votes of many who voted for Trump in 2016. Bernie is too far left. The Democrats need a moderate, but not a Hillary Clinton 2.
4
Without a doubt, Senator Sanders will defeat Biden and then Trump.
And today’s SUPER Tuesday results will prove it!
Feel the Bern
140
If so, his name will cost the House and lose more senate seats. It’s better than Trump but he can only stop the bad. No good will arise.
45
@Zareen - If you're correct, you'll get burned alright. While I admire his campaign's success, he is a stubborn, dogmatic ideologue who cannot compromise. His higher taxes, free everything has no chance of passing, so we'll be in for four more years of deadlock. Down ballot Dems will choose not to defend his policies, lest they risk defeat.
58
@Zareen
Most voters don't pay too much attention to primaries and don't vote in them so I'm not sure what it would actually prove.
5
I think these two have missed what's happening.
Look at 538's latest projections: Biden is likely to get a plurality of delegates. It's a shame that the commenters didn't have the chance to get the most up to date prognostications of the race prior to their dialogue.
The odd structure and outcomes of this year's primaries - two caucuses among the first three contests - which are tailor-made for a candidate like Bernie - and the delayed/distorted results from Iowa made the pundit talking points and media wisdom even less valuable than usual this year.
And it may have shortened the duration of some candidates' runs. The coastal elites have consistently underestimated Biden and overestimated Warren.
A lot of clarity will come from tonight's results. The folks who still took Warren seriously after her abysmal showing in NH and those who equated Bernie's wins in caucuses to a national mandate will likely be singing a new tune tomorrow.
4
This anti-Trump moderate Republican in a swing state will vote Democratic this election, as long as your nominee clears the very low bar of being not a Socialist.
80
@Ed Haywood Trump is a billionaire socialist. He's on the ticket no matter what. No problem voting for a Republican socialist?
19
@Ed Haywood
There are no socialists running. Educate yourself beyond the rhetoric, please.
There is a social democrat and his vote splitter Warren.
19
@Ed Haywood Ed, I’m not sure that most Americans know what socialist means or what democratic socialist means or that both of these things exist in European states where the middle class is actually happy and thriving.
Where’s the value in sticking with a lying, vindictive, corrupt, narcissistic, racist, misogynist, socialism-for-the-rich, 19th century capitalism for everyone else kind of guy? Or the value in not voting, which is the same as voting for Trump? I don’t get it.
If they are middle class, can someone please explain what they are getting from Trump now besides the satisfaction of getting validation for putting others down and feeling “better than . . .” We all know what corporations and the rich are getting.
22
Elizabeths Warren, if if she narrow fails to hold onto Massachusetts, should stay in the race until the convention. Joe's incoherence, Bernie's heart, & Bloomberg's arrogance make her the obvious choice to unite the party (and galvanize the sisterhood) should the older-than-she white old men stumble.
3
@monroe Bloomberg is not arrogant - he is assured and confident. Not effusive, but we do t need a Twitter head gameshow host. Let’s get someone like Bloomberg to unite the parties. Do we need the great divide at this moment in the country?
2
We have been conditioned into a nation of lemmings. Thought control through commercialism. We go for the next shiny new thing. Lies, exaggerations, spin, bait-and-switch, and all sorts of expert and well-researched gambits.
Wipe your slate clean and start all over, but this time leave out the spoon fed diet from prognosticators and everyone knows accepted “knowledge” disseminaters.
4
@Joel H
Yes. Apparently no one takes any psychology these days. Makes it easy for the propagandists. Hitler's Mein Kampf. Old story.
1
Why is Sanders called "Bernie" here and everywhere, while other candidates are all referred to by their last names? Just asking...
1
I'm sorry, did Warren drop out of the race and I missed it somehow. Sheesh.
1
Bernie & Elizabeth best represent my political position, but beating Donald Trump is just half the problem. The other is implementing substantive progressive change. Bloomberg alone has exemplary executive achievement in both business and government. Bloomberg can best (1) expose and defeat the fraudulent capitalist Trump and (2) push a declining nation into a “mixed economy.” He might be the worst debater, but his prepared speeches are extremely intelligent and nuanced. For him to succeed, however, will require the media and liberal voters to abandon "identity politics" and embrace a more dynamic, innovative capitalism and a government that will confront “market failures” and champion inclusive well-being.
So, this wonderful American democracy is likely to give the people a choice between a septuagenarian white male buffoon and a septuagenarian white male has-been.
Are Trump and Biden really the two best candidates for the most important job in the country? Is there no one else better suited to set policy and manage the federal government for the coming four or eight years?
We really need to stop accepting that this is a good system and ask ourselves the serious question whether our democracy can survive—or even should survive—if it produces choices like these.
6
Hillary 2016 = Biden 2020
Two peas in a losing, sold out the Democratic base to special interest, pod.
6
"Anyway, we’ve got nothing to worry about with this coronavirus business, since it’s obviously a liberal hoax. Don’t you find it suspicious that it’s named after a Mexican beer?"
"Most conservatives want less red tape, not more black crepe"
This is EXACTLY what our President is referring to when he said "hoax"
He never said coronavirus is a "hoax". He said the leftist news coverage and the Dems politicizing this outbreak for a way to slam our President is the hoax...
But, I get it...judging by the remarks from this ridiculous column from Collins and Stephens, they need all the laughs they can muster up.
Because they know, what all Dems know - their party is in complete shambles (can't WAIT for the dumpster-fire of a convention in Milwaukee) and neither Biden, Sanders, Bloomberg (please.) or Warren will win against our President
So our President will have all the laughs in November.
But then again, you guys haven't won anything lately, have you?
4
Uh 2018, chief?
1
@Jon Alexander
just the real world.
1
Mayor Pete in 2024!
1
The saddest thing for me is to hear so-called never-Trumpers like Stephens suggest that they will not, if Sanders gets the nomination, cheer as hard as humanly possible for him to become the next president. Once the conventions are over, one of two candidates will be elected. As much as one might dislike Sanders or his policy preferences, the notion that Sanders would be worse or no better for this country than Donald Trump is just indefensible. It would be morally wrong for Sanders to stay home if Biden is the nominee, and just as wrong for Republicans to stay home (or, worse. vote for Trump) if Sanders is the nominee. It matters so much.
3
As a primary voter, I picked my first choice today, which is Warren. But I will vote for the eventual Dem nominee no matter who they end up being. I am pretty sure the Biden supporters will do the same. The fact Sanders supporters have a high likelihood of not doing the same just tells me they are really not Democrats, they are jut Bernie-only voters and they do not care that there IS a difference between any of the Dem candidates and Trump winning, but they are just too rabid to admit it.
3
A prediction. If Sanders chooses Stacy Abrams as his running mate I bet Bret, against his worse judgement, will be an enthusiastic supporter of the ticket. I don't think he will be able to help himself.
1
Who would do better? Warren.
She would mop the floor with Trump's weave.
Biden and Bernie have too much baggage, and are easy targets for Trump and trolls.
" It’s very strange to be living in a time when being attacked personally by the president of the United States gets you a day full of congratulations."
I love you, Gail Collins.
1
The devil you know might be better than the devil you don’t know.
It’s Trump’s way and he has an all consuming ego, and the media has given plenty of press.
It’s Sanders way or your wrong, there’s a reason he is basically an independent, Not a team player and just fanatical.
Getting Trump out and Bernie in, may not be an improvement.
2
Very regrettably, neither Bernie or Joe can beat Trump. Each have too much baggage which Trump will exploit as he did with Hillary. It will be a repeat of the 2016 Russian playbook...he's already deployed it. I wish the Dems would be smarter about all of this, including being naïve about Bernie's supporters voting for Biden or someone else. They've already said they won't.
Fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice shame on me.
3
Come on Brett! If Bernie wins you HAVE to support him. How could you do otherwise????
1
Anyone who says this isn't just a populairty contest and voters are carefully weighing the specifics of the candidates' plans and positions should look at how Warren is doing.
Establishment Dems never fail to disappoint. Last night’s nauseating spectacle made me throw up in my mouth a little. But then I gargled and remembered that there’s still hope for the country because Bernie’s gonna win big today.
Super Tuesday for Sanders!
4
if the supreme court eviscerates and eliminates Obamacare, this term, for those not on private insurance, those MILLIONS are going to wish they weren't so foolish or selfish for not voting against trump.
Congrats Gail Collins! You stone cold loser! Loved yr last piece. And you & wonderful Bret Stephens today. A Pyrrhic victory maybe, she agreed. Bu that perfect metaphor of Niagara Falls in a barrel--yup. I'm with Robert Reich on this election: love Sanders or hate him--hang on to your hat. Yipppee! Over the falls we go.
1
I have to say that as vehemently as I usually disagree with Brett Stephens, I do really appreciate his humor. Several of his is quips on the candidates after each debate cracked me up while still being acutely on point.
I wonder if he let slip an out of character opinion when he wrote " It’s either going to be a triumph for the ages or death in a thousand little pieces", when characterizing a Sanders win. "Triumph for the ages" puts a radically different spin on a possible outcome of a progressive administration than Stephens has ever conceded in the past. Do we secretly agree on something positive about progressive policy?
2
I appreciate the ideas Bernie Sanders has brought forward in the last few years. However, he is still not a Democrat. During his time in Congress he has sponsored 3 bills, 2 of which named post offices.
I don't feel confident he can manage a post-Trump USA with the threat of violence from so many on Trump's side. Bernie has not been successful in calming his angry supporters like Bernie Bros and those who do his Pod cast.
After the turmoil of the Trump years, I don't want a revolution; I want unity. I want to speak with my friends and relatives in the small towns of MN and WI again.
Let Bernie be an elder statesman, but let a more skilled statesman/woman be elected President. Bernie is too angry, too loud and too rigid for what we need now.
3
@Lynda
If you're not speaking to people in your life because of political disagreements, that's nobody's fault but your own. You're in charge of your own reactions, not who is sitting in the White House.
Legislative accomplishments aren't counted in sponsored bills; they're counted in amendments passed to existing bills. Sanders has Biden beat on that front by miles.
On bill sponsorship, Biden's own legislative record is anything but stellar or an embodiment of Democratic values. Kicking poor people while they're down is not a Democratic value, last time we checked. I could be wrong though, as I'm not a real Democrat.
Trump is the leader of a movement, not a government. He is unconcerned about governance, laws. constitutionality, common sense, practical reality. He believes he will spread his movement, his personal cult of power, by hobnobbing with other autocratic leaders (Putin, Kim, Erdogan) and possibly by spreading his commercial brand. He seems himself as founding a dynasty.
The reality of a pandemic or economic recession mean nothing to Trump. Personal loyalty means everything. Eliminating competent, stable management in government departments is necessary to keep stable institutions of government from over-shadowing his personal will. This is what he really means when he rails against the deep state. If ordinary, competent government exists outside of his cult of personality, he will dismantle it.
If Bernie Sanders wins the nomination the lesson of this nomination won’t be any different than that of other nominations. The voters will have surprised the pundits and the politicians will have deceived the voters.
Trump portrayed himself as a businessman when in fact he was just another politician. He won with the help of the Russians, the fake media and the promise of a wall to be paid by Mexico. Now comes Bernie Sanders, a self described socialist, proposing that taxpayers pay for everyone to have a free college education and if that’s not enough to payoff for their school loans. Perhaps the best lesson to be learned is that if Putin and Trump are pulling for Bernie, they are signaling to you that Trump will beat him.
1
Gail, we want more than just someone to beat Trump. We want someone better than Trump. The old establishment Biden is not it. Let the voters decide that not the DNC.
3
Just a quick thought. I realize Bloomberg was ineffective and looked almost bored in those multiple candidate debates. But just how many voters even watched those debates? Trump was the only true winner in each case. It's vital to the future our nation to send Trump packing and I'll fully support the nominee regardless. But Bloomberg is highly intelligent and experienced and will put together a great staff and cabinet. Give him a chance.
3
Who would do better against Trump is the most important question but almost as important is who would help the Democrats the most to take the Senate. If Trump defeats the Democrat nominee and the Republicans take the Senate, look out. Or start looking for another country to live in. This may be end of liberal democracy in the US. Defeating Trump would prevent that and so would Democratic control of the Senate. Controlling the House alone would probably not be enough. Nominating Sanders should be scary to a lot of Democrats. If the Bernie and bust voters who turn out don't vote for Democratic Senate candidate that could be it for the American experiment in democracy.
2
It still amazes me that Sanders (and Warren for that matter) are considered far left candidates.
His platform and policies are very closely aligned to FDR, Johnson, Kennedy, and even Carter to some degree. That time period for Democrats IS the core value era of the Democratic party. It always has been. The reason people see it as way left these days is because over the last 40-50 the entire political spectrum has slowly been shifting right of center. The Republican party of today would be considered a right-wing extremist group back in the 70's, and modern Dems would be centrists back then.
Sanders isn't really doing anything extreme, all he's really doing is trying to pull the Democratic party back to its Great Society roots where it should be...and where its foundation has always been. Go back and look at all the party/Presidential policies and platforms over the last 50 and you'll see this ever-increasing rightward shift. Reagan would be booed out of the GOP convention were he to run today.
The reason for this is twofold: 1) it's happened so slowly (and people have short memories these days) that not many have noticed it, and 2) it benefits the powers that be for the population to think today's political parties are exactly where they should be. It's insane. This is why history class is so important. Sanders is Left. Not far Left. Not extreme Left. Not commie pinko Left. Just normal Left. It's the GOP that is off-the-rails right these days.
6
@kc Hi @kc - Wow! I so appreciate your intelligent and informative post. I will venture to guess that the reason Bernie is registered as an Independent is to stay separate from the Democrats' slow-motion big shift to the right that you describe above. (As you know, he caucuses with Democrats.) Thanks for an excellent post.
As horrifying as the prospect is, Trump will win four more years if Bernie Sanders is the nominee. His quasi-socialist, quasi-communist, quasi-democratic socialist proposals all sound wonderful (albeit have zero sustenance). Sanders' followers have surely forgiven him for being untethered to reality just as Trump's base has allowed him to indulge in a nearly 4-year long twitter rant, full of paranoia, lies, innuendos and insults. The problem of course for Sanders is that there are more Trump supporters out there! With Mayor Pete bowing out and since the democrats have lazily not bothered to put up a viable candidate, I'm going with JoJo Biden. I'll take four years of Biden's egomaniacal ineptness over four more years of Trump's dangerously maniacal ego any day.
3
yeah, Biden has one campaign office in the entire state of california, and it was padlocked as of last weekend. Biden is a good unifying moderate in theory, but in practice he's been sleepwalking his way through the primaries. He'd be shredded in a general election. In fact, I think he is going to get shredded tonight despite the other moderates dropping out.
If Clinton, a much stronger and more well prepared candidate, couldn't beat Trump with the "business as usual" platform, why would Biden?
9
How can anyone expect a candidate with a campaign slogan of. ‘No Malarkey’ beat trump!
2
"Trump has about as much credibility with most of the American public as the Soviet government did during the Chernobyl disaster."
Trump has no credibility with me, nor with almost any of the regular readers here. However, it is a serious mistake to forget that he does have credibility with a lot of other people.
That is why it is a danger that he could be re-elected. Expressing that fear acknowledges at some level that his credibility does exit with quite a few voters.
It is a mistake to so preach to the choir that we stay in our own bubble and fail to realize the larger world is out there. It is. It is the challenge. Denying it only makes us vulnerable to it.
5
One of the most pressing issues, the cost of housing, rents, etc. in most major cities, is tied to the votes that both Bernie Sanders, and Joe Biden took in 1993 in voting for the bill put forth by none other than DT, who successfully lobbied the Democrats in Congress in Washington D. C. by bringing over 1200 real estate people from across the country there. What it did was allow big real estate entities to take deductions, such that they wouldn't have to pay any taxes. It was put in the H.R. 2264 Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 that both voted for, and Clinton signed. So, the Trump Organization, the Kushner Holdings, and most big real estate entities have paid little, if anything in taxes for the last 25 years. The Republicans voted against it. So, the reason rents have gone up, across the country for decades, is that instead of paying taxes, these real estate entities have been able to keep buying more real estate, and in doing that, it has made them have to raise rents to keep their ever increasing real estate entities afloat. So, people ignorantly don't know who they are voting for, as legislation is buried in bills, and its long term economic harm is not seen at the time by Congress, on either side of the aisle. The rich have gotten way richer by the Democrats, in the everyday issue of housing, as it is the Democrats, and Bernie you should hold accountable, and also DT, as he is happy all the way to the bank as your President. We don't need those 3!
2
Didn’t all the 2020 Democratic candidates suddenly adopt Bernie’s 2016 vision for America? Oh, yeah, that’s right. That’s really powerful!
6
“A brokered convention that doesn’t give Sanders the nomination would be a disaster for the Democrats, since much of his base would revolt by refusing to vote in the general election.”
However, if Sanders IS nominated, Democrats will *lose* the votes of moderate Democrats — and moderate Republicans. It’s easy to imagine these voters staying home, just like it’s easy to imagine them looking for a *reasonable* alternative to Trump. This isn’t Bernie.
That said — I’m frankly supportive of some of Bernie’s positions, if done in measured increments and with buy-in from the public. I just don’t think most voters can get past the whole “self described Democratic Socialist” thing. Vote for someone who promises to take away your company healthcare? Replace it an untested Medicare for All? In what universe do moderates support a revolution?
So, with a Sanders nomination, are there more moderates to lose than there are Sanders extremists to gain? Are we net-positive if we let the my-way-or-highway fools stay home?
By a long shot. Just because the Bernie Bros are loud doesn’t mean there are a lot of them.
5
@Gary Horton
And the moderates got nowhere, the not moderate Republicans pulled them over the table every time. Obama kept losing, he kept rolling over and they got the better of him every time. He could not even fill the SC seat. Democrats watered down the ACA, Republicans got all they wanted and the Democrats got not even one vote in return. And Biden wants more of the same. No, thanks.
1
Bloomberg needs to stop fanning his ego and drop out. If he truly cares about our country, he will.
Then he must give millions to another candidate.
That would be a way he could actually help save our country from the disaster currently in the White House.
4
If Bernie gets the nomination, the polls will show that he will be demolished in Florida. Great economy, popular governor, and an angry Cuban and Jewish vote.
Winning Texas and Arizona are fantasies.
That means Trump, who got 306 electoral votes, starts with 260 electoral votes. The three toss up states are Wisconsin (10), Michigan (16), Pennsylvania (20). So he just needs to win one out of three. He will likely win Wisconsin where he is leading in every poll, and Pennsylvania, where Bernie has promised to shut down the natural gas industry by banning fracking.
4
Is it not possible that Warren could win at the convention? If the thing is brokered and Biden and Sanders are deadlocked after multiple ballots, is Warren not in play? That is what the Warren campaign seems to be banking on but I have never seen that possibility discussed or even considered in many columns. Am I missing something that the event of this happening is ludicrous?
1
It’s not OR. It’s AND.
Bernie and Joe can both beat Trump.
BUT only under the Big Tent of Democrats.
Putin and Trump are fomenting Democratic Factionalism.
So, choose and fight for our America.
2
Just to point out a bit of your cognitive dissonance.
As much as the Democratic Factionalists (establishment elite, neo-liberals, and some Moderates) would like you to believe that they are just against the foibles and their false prognostications of a Bernie Sanders; they are fearful of losing their power hold to any Progressive. When Elizabeth Warren grabs the lead, they will attack her similarly and just as mercilessly. Will they fully support a Progressive nominee against Trump? The devil you know?
1
Except Warren is no longer the progressive she masquerades as. The minute she got some pushback on Medicare for All, she switched to Medicare for All Who Want It. And lacking sufficient small-donor contributions, she embraced a super PAC. And in 2016 she endorsed Clinton over Sanders. In short, her so-called progressive inclinations take a backseat to her need to pander. She will not win the nomination, and I fully expect that, if she is ever gracious enough to bow out of the race, she will endorse a moderate over Sanders.
1
I love this dialog, but ask Bret to please reconsider his position regarding not voting Democrat in the general election! No matter who is nominated, I will vote Democrat -- and I am one who thinks that Bernie is too shrill, too dogmatic and arrogant, but, he is nowhere near the dogmatism and arrogance of Trump. We must save the country from four more years of corruption, bigotry, xenophobia and all that goes with the current occupant of the White House!
3
Somehow Sanders has made the story all about himself. His name-calling has promoted the notion that people are just out to “block” him. Like any socialist demagogue, he views the world as centering around his views - simply for or against him - when in fact, he is in a “competition” and there are others who disagree with him and who also want to “win.” That’s why these are call “elections,” not “for or against Bernie.” Talk about solipsism.
3
Great.
The front runners are two old white geezers.
Both demonstrate deteriorating health and capacities.
Challenging an old white mentally ill geezer.
What better metaphor for the status of our nation?
Bernie is the McGovern of the 21st century. His personal history, always with America's "enemies" and his brittle humorless personalty is Dead Man Walking.
Uncle Joe has a long long long history of poor judgment, that age further strengthens. Whether it was busing, or his treatment of Anita Hill and his failure to bring other witnesses to block the nomination, or the crime bill or the invasion of Iraq, Biden has been responsible for destructive policies of unparalleled negative impacts on our country.
Bernie will live longer and be much more effective as an engine of legislation in a Democratic Party holding Congress and the White House. Biden should never hold public office again.
Who's left? Republican Bloomie?
Tulsi?
I'm with Betsy.
2
It's amazing that someone who can write and spell thinks that four more years of trump is preferable over Sanders, even at his worst. Stephens uses his ideology as blinders. Sanders will not become the second king trump and will have to work with Congress on whatever his initiatives are. trump will continue his path to the throne and deligitimize the rest of the functions of government that keep us safe while self serving him and his spawn.
Stephens needs to use some critical thinking here.
1
The democratic party will win a presidential election when we stop running on a platform of "who is best to beat the republican candidate". When we decide to run the "best candidate", who runs on a platform, who discusses issues, and who presents rational plans with explanations of how to actually pay for these plans, that's when we will win an election. This concept of "we need a candidate who can beat..." has been manufactured by the media and it is wrong. We need to put forth a candidate who will be a better president. Right now, we are not doing that. We are not even close to doing that. And because we are not doing that, (I dont even believe that bernie or joe can or will do a better job than what trump has done so far--regardless of what and how it is reported here), there are not many options. I, and many others, feel the need to be more center-ish than progressive far left. You may argue that Bernie and Liz are running on a platform and on issues, and while that is true to some extent, their plans are pie in the sky and neither of them really has any clue as to what they will cost and how they will be paid for. For me, when the real astronomical costs come to light and Bernie says, "let's make the billionaires pay for it" the billionaires will be fleeing to a new, safe tax domicile. Who's left to pay the bill? The middle class, who will eventually be taxed out of existence. No thanks, not for me. That's not what I call a "good" president. Not in America.
2
E. Warren is the best candidate and would be a superb president. If Bernie wins, he better have her in his administration. He can't choose her as VP though. She comes from the wrong state, for one thing.
I stopped supporting Warren when she became vindictive and nasty to Bernie, Bloomberg, and Buttigieg.
So let me get this straight. The entire mainstream media with the exception of FOX and a few others have propped up socialist ideas now for 4 years. Hollywood celebrities and all kinds of sports hero's have illuminated the grand Ideas of someone like Sanders. Now that Sanders has a real chance of pulling this off the establishment wants to squash him. Did his tax scheme get a little close to home when reality set in or did he not have his own identity box that we could place him in.
4
I can't help but be deeply troubled by the ease with which the threat is made that disillusioned Bernie fans will take their marbles and go home if their hero doesn't get his "due." What does that say about their morality, much less maturity and that of Bernie himself who has been less than enthusiastic in forestalling that outcome. It reinforces the Trump-like aspects of Bernie that I find so disturbing.
That having been said, I will nonetheless vote for whoever the Democratic nominee turns out to be. If that gives comfort to intransigent Bernie bros, so be it as, for me at least, there are larger issues at play here than egos and personal preferences.
5
I agree with most of what Bernie calls for. That's why I'm voting for Biden.
I'd rather have incremental progress toward those goals, no matter how small, than risk the road being blocked forever. Obamacare with no public option is better than no Obamacare at all.
I know it's inspiring to call for peaceful revolution.. Bernie or Bust! Yeah, us! My generation tried that with Eugene McCarthy and George McGovern. Other generations tried it with Eugene Debs and William Jennings Bryan.... didn't turn out so well.
Demographics are sure to turn this country to the left, but the demographics aren't there yet. Make progress where it can be made, keep the progress alive. This is not the time for all or nothing bets with our lives.
6
@ImagineMoments
Your generation had access to affordable housing, healthcare and near-free public college education.
Biden's "incrementalism" amounted to nothing but the erosion of those privileges in the 40+ years he's been a legislator.
@Viv
In "our" generation, way less than 1/2 the population went to college. And many of those that did worked their way through it. And didnt major in things like "gender studies". Want to get a job after college and not be buried in debt. Major in something that will allow you to contribute to society.
A lot of Bernies people did not support the ticket in 2016 and this directly resulted in Trumps very unlikely victory. I know they will do that again if Joe wins but I say lets do it without Bernies people and his dream and hope of a huge turnout of new blue voters. We can have enough moderate blues, independants and probably pick up a handful of republicans with a conscious. Lets do it! ( however I won't be a petulant jerk like many of Bernie's 2016 supporters and I will hold my nose and support the ticket knowing full well his stated policies won't see the light of day in there present form.
4
Make it a three-way competition. Allow the DNC decide at the national conference. It's designed to work that way.
Here's the thing to realize: Bernie would NEVER be selected. 93 of the 100 superdelegates would not choose him. Biden just represents the "I've been there" segment, but has no true leadership skills. (Legislaturers write bills.) Michael Bloomberg is the only candidate who has the experience as an executive and as a leader. He knows how to cross the aisle, unite this country, and reset it to its rightful, respectful place in the world.
2
Message to feminists, the patriarchy is alive and well.
7
That there is a debate over who can best beat a criminal, white nationalist, authoritarian, natioal security risk is, for me, the most disturbing aspect of this presidential campaign season.
11
We might witness a miracle; Trump will single handedly defeat Corona, or so Fox will tell. A hero after saving the nation, according to Fox, and exhausted, Trump will loose the election.
Go Bernie!
1
Hey Joe, feel the Bern!
2
How about Michelle Obama for VP?
Beware of Russian Republicans seeking to sow discord--just like they did in 2016.
3
Elizabeth Warren has been the most vindictive candidate and at this point I don’t think I could ever vote for her under any circumstances. I am saying this as an Obama supporting independent centrist. I would also very much like to see a female president in my lifetime.
I don’t particularly like Bernie or Biden but I don’t have any visceral dislike for them per se. However, I’m sad to say that I feel very differently about Senator Warren. Her politics of personal destruction are absolutely horrible.
3
@Doug M Obviously you can only be referring to Bloomberg, and sorry to say but it was necessary.
@Tim
You say “sorry to say but it was necessary.” I don’t agree but if this is what politics have come to and it takes an Elizabeth Warren to do that you can count me out. I also volunteered for the Obama campaign and take the state of the world seriously.
Warren went after Bernie, Pete and Bloomberg. With Bloomberg she was particularly horrible and unfair. It wasn’t necessary. The Democrats are going to lose against Trump unless they nominate Bloomberg. Furthermore, look at all the good he has done with his money. He’s the most sincere candidate out there. I think Warren should be ashamed of herself.
I want Mike Bloomberg to be the 2020 Democratic Party candidate for POTUS and for him to pick US Senator Tammy Duckworth to be his running mate. Competence, proven ability to lead will result in a landslide over trumph and pence.
1
I'm all for AOC, Buttigieg, Yang, Gabbard, and other passionate, intelligent, professional under-40's leading this country. The next election, though, is all about neutralizing the damage Trump has caused and will continue to cause to our country, our species, and life on this planet. Every candidate but Biden or Bloomberg will polarize Republicans to turn out their vote. Only Biden or Bloomberg has the ability to actually swing votes from the white people who would vote for Trump instead. "Liberals" better stop being the self-interested idealists they've become and start being the 'for-the-public-good' pragmatists they were. Get Trump out of office and THEN we can get down to the hard work of saving our society/species/planet.
4
The winner needs a list of quantifiable, achievable and scheduled 'heal America' goals. Homelessness, transport. (traffic, climate, innovation, infrastructure... ), working poor, job security, mental health, addiction. We also need fresh metrics. (ex. jobs growth and GDP say nada about wellness or quality of employment. For social and economic reasons, Americans need to spend more time together with their kids, parents, families and communities. Americans are angry, yes @ J Anderson). So true! Angry, financially strapped, stressed by not being able to have every countless life-improving widget... America needs calm. When Mom/Dad is in traffic, late to pick their child up, late to practice - and there are homeless brothers and sisters, billboards for cannabis-products, strip clubs, action movies, plastic surgery and dubious lawyers everywhere; political and product ads everywhere..it's overwhelming! American society is chaotic, fragmented and confused. We can vote for M4All - which won't happen (yet) and get continued fighting on TV, in families, online, in schools/universities....Or, we can focus on doable objectives that make all Americans slightly better off - year by year - and bring people together- FROM DAY ONE! Political yo-yo-ing is failure regardless of victor. Americans need a respectful, less-stressed society where cheaters, abusers and billionaires don't set terms and call every shot? Scandi. social welfare is rooted in "samvaer" - togetherness - NOT socialism.
What backroom deals did the Democratic Party leadership make to clear the moderate lane for Biden? Why is the normally liberal press waging a full scale attack on Bernie Sanders? It now very obvious that Democrats are more afraid of Sanders than they are of the Coronavirus!
6
Ohmigoodness. A sort of Republican boomer vs one 3 pre-boomers, who are sort of Democrats, will probably create the lowest voter turn out possible in November. “Beam me up Scotty.”
1
I find it offensive that Bernie talks down to the “establishment”. The problem with Bernie is that he’s only talking to his base, like Trump did. And then everyone else is the bad “establishment” - does Bernie want to lock up Biden too?
Meanwhile Bernie has been working for the US government for decades. I believe there is nothing wrong with being part of the government. We need good civic-mind people to work in the Capital. Don’t bash them.
Bernie needs to wake up and see the other Americans. This includes those who voted for Trump or “the establishment”. Until then, he’s a no-go.
4
"Most conservatives want less red tape, not more black crepe."
Most, but not all. My God, one has to wonder what's lurking behind that hedge! A conservative who doesn't want less red tape, or a conservative who wants concentration camps for those he/she demonizes?
Or just maybe a conservative who wants less tape and more crepe, aka a fascist? I've met more than my share of them, in my time.
2
Vote Blue no matter who!!
Bernie may be too socialistic for you, Bret, but he won't be able to convince Congress to go along with really unaffordable legislation.
However he probably will convince Congress to go along with clawing back the recent tax cuts for the rich. The deficit is important!
Trump has been remarkably successful in changing the U.S. so quickly. That's because he does not respect or obey laws or customs which have limited the power of the Presidency.
That can't happen again. A balance of power is required for democracy.
So: VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO.
3
Today we are voting to recruit or dismiss an army of one million extremely motivated volunteers ready to bust their tails for Bernie Sanders and defeat Donald Trump. I'd like to think they'd do it for any dem nominee, but the fact is, the vast majority won't.
7
Make it a three-way contest and allow the Superdelegates decide at the DNC. That's why our system is designed that way.
BUT: Bernie knows if it comes to that, 93 of 100 Superdelegates would NOT select him. Biden may not be selected either. Ask most superdelegates and they know who the true leader is and that's Bloomberg. He needs practice debating, but he's a leader which is what our country needs.
The one problem in this equation: Democrats need ALL voters, including Bernie supporters. They could destroy our country again, as happened in 2016. They need to vote Democratic, no matter who is nominated. Bernie's crew did not endorse Hillary last year and that's why Trump won.
1
It is a simple fact that, while Bernie is popular among the left, the electorate changes quite quickly for the general election. Joe Biden is better positioned to win the general election. All of my analysis and data show that Biden is the more likely to win in November. If you can't stand Trump, the choice is then obvious: vote for Biden. By some estimates only 20 to 30 percent of America is liberal. The rest are moderates or conservatives. So if liberals can recognize the data, they would see that America is not ready for Bernie's ideas yet.
2
@David You have a point but "your analysis and data" show that Biden is more likely to win? C'mon man.
3
Bernie has shown broad appeal and run a fantastic campaign and is able to raise plenty of money. So obviously he can’t win. Joe, who has run a terrible campaign, has had trouble raising money and seems like a tired over the hill candidate and is not very inspiring even if you concede he is “solid” obviously is more likely to win that Bernie. Go figure.
9
I already voted for Hillary(because democratic establishment screwed Bernie 4 years ago), as my vote against Trump.
Besides Bernie, none of them, left, right or middle stand for anything while this country slides into oblivion and people are abandoned on all fronts - health, wages, lobbying, etc. etc.
I really do not see how Biden is better than Trump, may be unlike Trump he'll start a war, just like Hillary would've done?
All of my life Democrats promised HEALTHCARE, but all what we've got is INSURANCE, I wouldn't even call it HEALTH INSURANCE, enough of that.
8
If Biden wins in the primaries, I will wholeheartedly support Biden, all the way to what I expect will be his defeat in the general election. Otherwise, I support Sanders. I expect Biden supporters to do likewise, and support Sanders if Sanders wins the primaries. No grumbling. No stinting. Wholehearted support either way.
To be clear, if the Democratic Party uses super-delegates to overturn a Sanders victory (including by plurality) in the primaries, instead of to support a victorious Sanders, then anyone who goes to war against the Democratic Party gets my support—for as long as it takes to get rid of the Democratic Party.
None of us should tolerate a Democratic Party which arbitrarily puts the preferences of the party elite ahead of voting results.
4
@S.P. Bernie wrote the rules for the superdelegates this time around, and in 2016 he was saying the superdelegates should throw their weight behind him and give him the nomination even though Hillary won the popular vote. I am a Sanders supporter, but if he loses at a contested convention that is a fair result under the rules.
2
For the record from my corner eighty years of age now following Presidential Elections, I've never doubted for a moment that Biden would not win the nomination. Nor do I doubt 'sleepy Joe' will win the White House.
1
@abe 46 Not counting on a sleepyhead for President. Biden won’t get the job done. Bloomberg will.
The very interesting question is becoming "what would a President Sanders actually do?"
Yes, he blusters about how he'll get you a Medicare-for-All deal, but the only thing we know about that is that it is never going to get approved by the Senate. There is even a real risk that, assuming Bernie gets to be the name on the ticket come November AND assuming Trump's incompetence finally catches up with him, those people who hate Trump enough to vote Sanders will assuage this choice by going for GOP'ers in the concurrent House contests...
That would leave the Bernster with an entirely Republican Congress, as well as a Judiciary stacked with deep red conservatives, from SCOTUS down. If he wants to achieve anything, he'd have to resort to Trumpian tactics. Think "acting" Secretaries. Think "innovative" interpretations of un-codified practices.
You could very well end up with something as disruptive as Trump's excuse for an Administration. Interesting times indeed!
4
Michelle Goldberg put it nicely on these pages. If Sanders is the nominee, we will be throwing to Trump a whole lot of reliable voters (swing voters, who always vote) in exchange for the Sanders promise of a whole lot of unreliable voters (young voters, who have yet to turn out for him in greater numbers). Against all odds, it was only Biden who has pulled in lots of new voters, and he did it with his big win in South Carolina. I agree with Bret. Hoorah for the deep state and its exemplary professionals and public servants. More than a few Sanders supporters on this site have made reference to their own belief in the malignant anti-Bernie deep state (and the anti-Bernie media, and the anti-Bernie establishment elite whatevers). Here's my take. A Sanders nomination might very well lose us the House and make the Senate unattainable. I would rather take back the Senate and hold the House, than win the presidency. It looks like that is where the Democrats are going. And wisely so.
1
I fear that if Sanders wins the nomination, he will be relentlessly attacked by Trump and his surrogates because of his age, 78, his recent heart attack (hinting that there will more to come), and his self-proclaimed socialist agenda, viewed by the right as no different from communism, his tone deaf comment about Castro underscoring that belief. I doubt that red state voters will drift from Trump, regardless of his unfitness for the office and opera buffa persona. The future does not look rosy.
1
Here is a general comment to the coverage of the 2020 Decocratic primaries:
Has Bernie Sanders vanished from the NY Times reporting in the last days? It seems there has been only Joe Biden around. I am disapponted because the editorial policy obviously leans towards the "Democratic establishment" and lacks argumented analysis based on the programmes of the respective candidates.
9
Both candidates are a joke... and living in a bubble world of unpopular polices that don't resonate with the general electorate.
Trump wins whether he faces an avowed socialist, Bernie.. or Joe, who has more baggage than a fully booked 747. Trump will have a field day campaigning against either "selected" candidate to represent the democratic party.
Should be a good show over the next few months...
1
Bloomberg is our hope, Biden and Bernie are sure vote for Trump and it makes me insane that they keep trying to run for President. This is why we need Bloomberg instead of been there done that Biden and Sanders.
5
@Oh My
Maybe you need Bloomberg, but I don’t. I cannot and will not pull the lever for someone I feel is a racist attempting to drape himself in blackness because it now suits his agenda. For me there is no difference between Trump and Bloomberg. Both are racist abusers of women. I also don’t need a president who will tell me what I need to eat and drink, thank you. Go ahead and let Bloomberg buy the nomination, and I will stay home.
The first year I was old enough to vote was 1972. As a Young Yellow Dog Democrat I enthusiastically cast my ballot for George McGovern. A total blowout! I am now an Old Yellow Dog Democrat and I would enthusiastically cast my ballot for Sanders. I would expect another total blowout. With aggressive progressive policies discredited for a decade. Then there would be nothing to look forward to but a Republican Depression. Ah, politics!
2
I was bummed when Pete quit; and when Amy followed hours later I was convinced this was not of their own volition.
I really don't see Biden, Sanders, Warren, or Bloomberg bring the country together to oust Trump and take over the Senate as well. No body here is looking at the big picture!
I'll vote for the democratic candidate, whomsoever it is, but this party needs a new agenda and new vision -- better still it is time for a third party, somewhere in the middle for those who are fed up with these two clowns that we have to chose between!!!
With the threat of coronavirus stalking the American public, and a for-profit medical establishment perched above, the only viable choice is Bernie Sanders.
It's only $1400 for a Coronavirus test, folks. Step right up.
5
American intelligence has already seen Russian influence in the 2020 election - and they aim to keep Trump in by causing division in the Democratic party.
Democrats, please don't fall for this. Please. Trump has caused so much world disruption...we are counting on you all to vote Blue, no matter who your preferred candidate is. The rest of the world would be forever grateful.
2
It’s not up for “debate”. Whether you like his personality or not, Bloomberg would be a better president than any of the other people running for the office in 2020.
6
Sanders guarantees another four years of Trump.
He also guarantees Republican House and Senate.
Sanders has been in Congress for 40 years and accomplished nothing. He is a waste of space, now graduated to a danger to the Republic.
He's autocratic, irascible, rigid and has no grasp of reality. He relies on resentment and spite, and dismisses anyone who points that out. His idea of compromise or listening to other points of view correlates precisely with that of the repellent Bernie Bros - scream and attack.
I don't find either Biden or Bloomberg inspiring, but Sanders is a catastrophe.
6
@shar Bloomberg will get the job done. Biden has been trying but people still look at him as Obama’s shadow. So Trump will win if Biden and also Sanders. It’s that simple. Get MIKE
I’ve always enjoyed these columns you do together but this one comes off as too self righteous and smarmy. You keep knocking Bloomberg because he had a “bad” debate. Who cares. The debates were a joke from the beginning. Nothing came out of them least of all a candidate. Sanders said the same thing over and over, Biden stumbled around, Warren had a plan for everything, and on and on and on. Bloombergs ideas were worth listening to, when he wasn’t being dragged through the 25 year old mud that served no point except to avoid any discussion about what he is doing now and what he will do. You dismiss him as if he had no right to even be on the stage let alone discuss what has to happen and how it has to happen if the Democrats want to and maybe do take back the presidency.
Sanders will never get anything by McConnell, Biden will be overwhelmed by the mess he faces, but Bloomberg seems to at least understand the scope of what any new president will confront. And as far as Sanders is concerned, he will get clobbered in any face off with Trump. He can wave his hands and talk as loud as he wants, but no one will hear anything but “socialist”. Trump is the worst of the worst and if he is not taken down this next election, he will do even more damage especially when McConnell and the Republicans control the Senate and maybe the House. You both should rethink who the anyone but Trump candidate will be. There are 3 not 2 options, one of whom might actually call
Trump out.
1
Say what you need to say to get elected. Once in office, pursue radical policies. Which won't get past Mitch. But to elect Bernie is to have neither the chance to win the WH or the chance to propose democratic socialist policy. Elect Biden to woo the independents, moderates, suburban women....then let Senator Sanders propose his policies to the POTUS and Senate. But beat trumpertyrant at all costs.
I just had a neighbor tell me, when I told her I couldn't sleep last night as my heart is not where my head is this minute- I mentioned the idea that perhaps there is better chance of Trumper's coming to Bernie as opposed to Biden. (And the kids... God Bless our youth!) She replied, Trumper's would go over to Bernie when pigs can fly. In which I replied, "My daughter's friend when they were little girls, painted a flying pig. She went on to be a very good artist. And, maybe you're not poor (which she is not), losing loved ones to Heroin overdoses, bringing back a $5.00 drug store item so you can put gas in the car, etc. There is a lot of suffering, and not everyone wants to have a scapegoat (what Trump encourages) to escape the pain.
1
How is it that in the United States of America in the year 2020, our choice for a leader comes down to 4 unfit, doddering, very old men? I just wonder why Americans won't support candidates who look and act like they can go the distance, physically and mentally, for 8 years. I voted, but I feel a little disgusted today and certainly not hopeful for our future, no matter who wins.
1
What a mess! If Bernie wins, down ballot it will cost them the House as centrists, Republicans and independents try to restrain his worst impulses. If Joe wins, Trump gets re-elected because the party put its finger on the scales to keep big campaign contributors on the reservation and stay in the range that they are comfortable in. Voters feel the fix was always in and stay home in droves. If Bloomberg wins, the Progressives cut off their nose to spite their face in the General Election. A fifty/fifty proposition at best without Progressives. Unless Bloomberg somehow pulls an upset, unfortunately this is beginning to look like 2016 all over again
1
Please tell us this will be the final Weekend at Bernie's episode. Bernie is a political nonachiever with classic American believers for followers.
My wife and I head to the polls today in CA. Our initial goal was to vote for someone who could evict Trump from the White House. Now our goal is to stop Bernie, whose ideologue nonsensical aspirations can't be realized and will thwart his electability. In spite of his myriad faults, Bloomberg offers a competency that outshines Biden's garrulous, loquacious, and archaic prose (malarkey?) and intellect. But, I must vote for Biden, who seems to have the wind at his back after South Carolina, so we can stop the comrade. What a mess the Dems have given us twice now.
3
There's another question: who would make a better president?
2
What a bizarre experience, reading Stephens' comments about Trump, expressing jealousy that he has not yet been called a "stone cold loser" by Trump, acknowledging that the administration's poor handling of the current public health crisis is just one example of the utter destruction of this president -- yet Stephens STILL says he won't vote for Sanders if Sanders wins the nomination? Bizarre.
2
Elizabeth Warren is in this campaign too. Let’s not rule her out yet. It’s up to the American people to oust Trump.
1
One question is whether Bernie, Biden, or Bloomberg would be best to beat/trounce/pound Trump in the 2020 election?
Another question is if one of these Democratic presidential candidates does beat Trump, which one can then take on old mean Mr. Mitch McConnell and open people's eyes to how nasty, unethical, and destructive Mitch is as Senate Majority Leader. Somehow Mitch has to be shamed into shoveling those 400 bills the House has passed onto the Senate floor for votes.
Would it be too much to hope for that Trump and McConnell are defeated for re-election in 2020? A woman can always dream.
1
I can't get over how out of touch with reality Stephens seems to be. Buckley and Bush and their thinking are GONE from the Republican Party, and they aren't coming back. Trump has seen to that. The only essential function of government is to increase and protect the wealth of the wealthy, and its only moral obligation is to limit the rights and freedoms of immigrants, gay people, minorities, and women. If you don't believe health care is a right, then OF COURSE you don't believe government has any obligation whatsoever to attempt to deal with a pandemic. Is the blame on less-government-is-good philosophy? OF COURSE IT IS. Yet conservatives like Stephens continue to believe that a massive government action such as dealing with a pandemic can somehow be accomplished with "less red tape." And don't forget, this tiny, red-tape-less government is also going to support a massive military.
Clearly there's something I don't get about a worldview such as Stephens', but I don't think that something is the observable reality of the last four years.
2
Must have really burned Bernie and his true believer minions to think that Amy and Pete would have crossed over to his moderate arch foe, Joe Biden. Next ( just as the Bern claimed during the 2016 primaries, when Hillary won the nomination) we'll being hearing from the Bernieistas that the system is rigged.
As for myself I'm hearing such idiocy from the Bernie side as: 'At least the Right under Trump and the Left under Bernie "Has A vision", while the Center has nothing'. This as justification if (once again) the Left decides to take their ball and go home, if their own Beloved Leader loses the nomination in the 2020 race? No wonder the Trumpians are so confident in 2020 that the Demos love fratricide more than they hate Trump-Christ.
5
@birddog Think you could comment without calling people names?
Can Mike B be the answer? I believe he is the only person Trump can't bulldoze and bully.
Isn't Trump a Billionaire as he keeps telling us?
When we see Trump's Tax Return I will become a "trumpsters"!
4
I hate Trump and I'll vote for Biden.
But I'll take Trump over a Bernie any day of the week and twice on Sunday
4
@abdul74
100% agreed with you!
I also dislike Trump. I'll vote for Biden.
But I will take Trump over Bernie.
Trump will demolish Biden. Biden will have to hope covid - 19 reemerges in the fall. But look at the facts: 50 basis points today, with another 25 next month..................the virus by may/june contained.......aug-sept the economy is literally roaring. Biden's return to decency return to the Obama years won't work. The democrats better face up to the fact that republican-lite won't work, and they'll have the formidable Nikki Haley waiting for them in '24...............
3
@Northcountry
Can we vote absentee now? Can all COVID-19 victims be handed a ballot on their way into isolation. They can express their outrage over Trump's cutting the CDC budget and removing health experts from the National Security Council. The lack of management and planning at the top will cost people their lives.
We won't have to wait for COVID-19 to come back, it is spreading rapidly right now. I was just told by a friend that they work with a woman whose child attends the same school as a child whose father is now the second confirmed case in NY. That man flew back and forth to Miami, took the train and subway to work in Manhattan, and has children in different schools. Just imagine all the vectors -- thousands of possible contacts. She works at a firm with hundreds of people in a building with thousands of people, located near Times Square.
1
Here are two political philosophies:
1) Vote for the person who pollsters say can win.
2) Vote for the person you believe will make the best president.
Personally, I see a lot of potential for corruption by money and media in the former. It's also saturated with cynicism.
Why is it that there's always a reason why you shouldn't vote for who you think is the best? That's a deadly serious question, and it's exactly why Trump is sitting in the White House right now.
5
Call me crazy because it would never happen but Biden as President and Sanders as Vice President. That might bring on the Sanders voters and the moderate independents and Republicans might be happy with Biden at the head of the ticket. The only problem is their age and the probability that they will only be there for one term.
@Eaaron Henderson-King Yes!!! Hillary would be president today if she had selected Sanders as her VP. If the Democratic Party is really a big tent, then the tent needs to include us all.
There's actually also a third viable option...Warren.
7
One of these men should be president and the second ought to be the vice president. Stop the campaigning and unite around one lonely mission: Defeating the Trump in November.
1
@Alan C Gregory They're both too old to be vice-president, and there's very little chance Bernie could play second fiddle to a corporate DNC republican-lite centrist.
Bernie’s young supporters will pick up their ball and home if he doesn’t prevail today. Simple reason - they are not Democrats.
2
Wow — the smears against Senator Sanders and his supporters never ends here, does it? Just because you want to get behind a listless, out-of-touch candidate like Joe Biden doesn’t mean the rest of us have to capitulate. We still have a real chance for fundamental fairness in this country and a better future for all. So, why would we want to give up on that right now?
Bernie 2020
1
@Queenie Maybe they aren't members for good reason?? Would you rather they aligned with the republicans? Your childish attitude might help make that happen and then where will you be with your purity test?
No Democratic candidate should debate Trump. The forever impeached, proven liar, does not deserve it and debating skills do not prove executive competence, nor belief in the rule of law. Mussolini and Hitler were great debaters.
2
Most people I know live the idea of Medicare for all, especially when faced with a pandemic, but are not believing that in the gridlock if Washington that Sanders will know how to get anything done. He certainly has inspired the younger generation but if he is unable to win or if winning can’t get anything done, what good is it? Our country cannot handle 4 more years of Trump trauma. He’s destroying our democracy now. We need someone who can unite, heal and stabilize the world, and that isn’t Bloomberg, even if his ads says ‘Mike will get it done’. Biden can, especially as he is open to all the help and advice he will need, which is very different from ‘our stable genius’ or even Democratic candidates who want what they want come hell or high water, which might lead to both, if they can’t gain a coalition of voters and Congressional leaders to get things done. Please Lord, help us be rid of ‘the bad man’ (Churchill’s direct description of another authoritarian, as well as my granddaughter’s of Trump) in the White House and find someone who is good to lead our nation and the world into a brighter future of freedom and human rights for all on a planet that you’ve entrusted us with to be good stewards of. God help us, as ‘We need thee, oh, we need thee’
3
Look at the similarities between Xi Jinping (discussed in Barme's op-ed today) in China, and Trump here at home, and our nations' problems.
Both men are screwing things up faster than solving any problem, and as failures build upon each other they are hunkering down, not seeking real answers. They hold on to past and future myths of greatness: American Dream, China's Dream, Road and Belt, Make America Great, while relying on the crushing of dissent/whistle blowers and misinformation.
So why is this happening?
Both nations are maturing in similar ways -- each a huge economy with a strong military, gross inequalities, too many working poor and just plain poor, and a large (lower) middle class demanding more.
Reforms in both country look like a hopeful way out. But that may be an illusion. Honorable folks point in that direction -- the dissidents honored in Barme's op-ed and Biden's supporters, for example.
But the established powers in both countries are not budging: "stability maintenance" in China is like Biden's fantasy of bipartisan tweaking of Obamacare -- not gonna happen.
Both need a vitalized public, and here in the US, we actually have a chance to mobilize for some big repairs to the our nation's potholes.
Rather than pour on some of Biden's asphalt to the rotting infrastructure, Sanders is calling on us to resurface the road -- harder short-term, realistic and needed long-term. China is too afraid of such a challenge; we are better.
In any case, VOTE
1
It’s all over but the shouting, no matter who wins today. Everyone wants a candidate who can beat Trump, but there isn’t one in sight. Let’s get real here: Biden damns himself with faint praise by claiming to be the real genius behind the Obama administration and the only attraction of a Sanders presidency is the opportunity to watch Larry David display his comedic virtuosity. The Democrats have had four years to develop a viable candidate to unite around and this is what they come up with? They don’t deserve to win.
3
I’m not terribly excited by any of the candidates. I like each of them for their unique strengths and viewpoints. However, I’m also not looking for excitement. I want relief, not revolution (at this moment in time). We need a pause in progressive agendas for just four years to allow a Democratic President, Senate, and House to reverse Trumpism’s damage to our government institutions, policies, and guidances. Upon that repaired foundation, let progressive policy have at it convincing the electorate of the benefits of their policies and vision. We are too damaged by Trump and his cartel of corruption to build a new democracy, socialist or traditional. In my opinion, we need to rebuild the dyke before attempting untested social architecture. Trump has damaged our Constitution, our Senate, our respect for higher office, our TRUST in all things governmental including the Judiciary upon which the Rule of Law hangs and which has been publicly insulted, degraded by the corrupt politics of the Right.
Any Democratic Candidate eclipses Trump in integrity, honesty, intelligence, judgement, influence, and sanity. I’ll vote with gusto for any of them but Bernie is the biggest threat to victory in THIS election. I’d vote for his policies in about four years but not now. Now is all about a win over Trump and NOTHING else. That win is existential lest Trump tramp on our lives, ethos, and American democratic principles. Vote Blue, up and down as though your lives and futures are threatened.
3
Polls are polls, and they mean little or a lot, depending on your narrative or how much political cool-aid you've consumed. But when I see Bernie LEADING Biden in the four most important battleground states on Super Tuesday morning: WI +17, MI +10.8, OH 11.1, and the best, PA 5.8...then I just have to wonder what the hell the inner DNC elite are truly thinking here.
If you are telling me that a 40yr nationally-branded political veteran, former VP, former US senator who is LOSING his home freakin' state, is the "Guy with the best chance to beat Trump", then wow....really goes to show you how out of touch the DNC truly is.
Liberals need to consider taking a coach's viewpoint this time around. When confronting a big, more talented team, coaches have a choice: Coach "not to lose" or coach to "win the game". See the difference?
Bernie voters have rid themselves of the fear of losing. Moderates, still scared and charred from 2016, are too gripped with the fear of losing again. They fail to grasp the fact that a rock-solid front runner is staring them in the face.
Voting for Biden is akin to "coaching not to lose". Voting for Bernie is voting to win.
And, lastly, voters on both sides are telling the establishment that they've "had it". Any successful candidate has to have a message, a concrete platform. Telling me to vote for Joe "because he has the best chance of beating Trump" isn't a platform or message.
It's just a different way of saying "I'm with her".....
2
Thanks for nothing.
2
Fascinating that the NYTimes endorsed Warren and is now ignoring her, as are the paper's opinion writers. Shameful.
6
Trump would LOVE for Bernie to beat out Biden.
Trump is scare of Biden because he knows that Biden will have a bigger appeal than Bernie. Yes, Bernie has his dedicate supporters but it will not be enough to beat Trump in an election.
Trump and his Republicans followers will subtly bring out Bernie's religion into play...let's not kid our self about this!
Bernie's socialism ideology and religion is the elephant in the room.
Biden scares Trump. I'm a Latin and Independent but also realistic. I'm for Biden.
1
Bernie supporters who threaten to sit out the general election, will you please explain how sitting out in November will advance Bernie's agenda?
RBG (Ma'm, please keep using your treadmill and eating your salad) will certainly retire in the next four years. So if you sit out, it will ensure a 6-3 conservative majority in the SCOTUS. That means sitting out will not only delay Bernie's agenda for four year, but rather it will be put to sleep for generations.
How is that good for your cause?
8
Well said.
Bloomberg could win for the simple and obvious reason he has deep pockets and an effective and efficient organization to support his candidacy.
Bernie has self-labeled himself as a Socialist, so that doesn't speak well for his strategic sense nor his chances to get the big win Democrats must have this time around to win back the presidency AND flip the senate.
Without ridding himself of Mitch McConnell, Bernie will flail against a gridlocked Congress having no chance of passing any part of the many free programs his supporters unrealistically expect him to produce.
Warren might win the nomination yet. Women support her and will fund her campaign until she quits, which may not be ever, if Warren is to be believed.
Biden is ready-made for the role of a compassionate and familiar presence to come to the rescue of a nation gripped by an angry maniac who fumes almost daily and has simply worn his welcome thin with Americans, especially suburban Republican women, who are tired of his act.
This fall is an opportunity for Democrats like none I have seen to regain the presidency, flip the Senate and set up Dems for years.
With a big win, Democrats have a chance to pass House bills McConnell blocked, restore our Democracy, rebuild our institutions that Trump has damaged, and renew our foreign alliances.
It just requires seeing the big picture and selecting the right ticket. Joe Biden and Black congresswoman Val Demings from Florida could be unbeatable!
2
I wonder if you're both too quick to dismiss Mike Bloomberg.
Oh, not that he'll pile up the delegate count to get the nomination -- but that he'll hold sufficient support to play the role of kingmaker.
The general election is going to be a very expensive one. It will require huge financial resources. Trump has already piled up a couple of billion (yes, billion) dollars.
Bloomberg is the deep pocket any Democratic nominee is going to need. If Bloomberg nods in Biden's direction it's Bye, Bye Bernie....
3
@George S.
Bloomberg already said he is not going to drop out. When asked directly at a CNN town hall if he would support Biden, he declined to answer.
Mike Bloomberg already has 70 super-delegates lined up because he's bankrolling 300 salaries of DNC staffers.
One thing I'm struck by in reading these comments, the Bernie voters make a lot of assumptions. They are "pretty sure" about a lot of stuff related to Sanders and electability, and that type of wishful thinking will get Trump reelected in 2020.
1
Question for Mr. Stevens- if Sanders gets the nomination, will you vote for him in November?
2
My heart is not where my head is at with this vote. Bernie was way ahead, then the old guard act of So. Carolina. Some of my favorite people in the world are doing unexpected things. I'm pretty sure Trump folks would not come over to the Biden side, but to Bernie's- more realistic. And the media- Good Lord. I know there are a million zillion opinions out there. Maybe fight fury with fury- and the kids, there is a big something to be said for the kids - the young people of our Country. All I can really say, is God Bless this Country, our troops and all of us!
1
I'm leaning towards Bernie because of his stand on health care. I will vote for Joe if he prevails. But it saddens me that in the twenty-first century after the women's movement and civil rights, our choices for president are old white men . It's a metaphor for our aging infrastructure and crumbling civilization. As a side note, since it was a black man who saved Joe's sorry white candidacy from folding, I hope Joe picks a running mate of color for VP.
273
@Peggy Sherman Bernie rules
4
@Peggy Sherman
The Democratic Party has a problem in the electoral college because it gives rural voters extra weight. Who has an advantage in the electoral college?
Who has individual donors in rural, suburban, and urban districts, all over the USA*?
Who has the most individual donors*?
How fot the most money from his donors?
Who gets standing ovations from rural Republicans and rural Independents at his healthcare town halls?
Who gets 70% of the vote on rural Vermont, which includes Republicans and Independents?
Who doesn't have a record of trying to take away guns (or super-sized sodas) from rural voters?
Who do Republicans and right leaning Independents hate more than socialists? Establishment Democrats. Who has an ADVANTAGE because he is "not a real Democrat?"
Who has the biggest ground game, with a movement of committed activists (long attacked by establishment Democrats) that understands both street and on-line organizing, spread across every state?
Who fills stadiums?
Only Trump and Bernie fills stadiums.
Bernie knows how to talk to rural voters.
Bernie is popular in the rest belt.
Bernie is the obvious choice to put against Trump.
Don't just believe the establishment, like Republicans believe Trump.
Examine the actual evidence that Bernie would win in the electoral college.
*See: "The Donors that Power Bernie Sanders' Campaign." (NYT 2/1/20)
9
@Doug Brooke Bernie Rules nothing except hot air. He will not win against Trump. Biden will not win against Trump.
BLOOMBERG will beat Trump and has he resources to do it.
What’s not to get.
4
The Democrat Establishment does not want a Bernie Presidency.
Their opinion that the "Voters" will not support big ideas, bold policies, to me, doesn't hold water. To the Corporate Dems, incremental change, or the don't rock the boat let's just have the status quo is the safe, but wrong bet.
People are energized that Sanders' ideas and policies would actually benefit ... them, and not some corporate, special interest group.
Let's face facts ... FDR couldn't get the nomination with today's Democrat "Leaders" ... Want to give up your Social Security?
5
This isn't just about beating Trump it's about stopping the GOP. What happens if Trump wins but Dems regain control of congress. Then he's effectively hobbled.
What happens if Joe or Bernie make Prez and the GOP regains control of congress? Same problem.
So stop focusing on this as if beating Trump is going to fix everything because it's not. This is an all or nothing affair.
And every serious political site worth their salt - including the NYT - has shown that only Bernie can make this happen. Pick Bernie and the Dems win it all. Pick Joe and the Dems lose it all. Joe is a Republican-lite DINO who only cares about the rich and big biz and everyone left of center will not vote for him and his ilk ever again. No more voting for the lesser of two evils. Either elect a good guy - Bernie or Liz - or let it all burn.
5
This country is not ready for a UK-style National Health Service or a Canada-style Health Canada in spite of the polls. Maybe with the choice of a public option, more and more people will migrate to it over time. How many union members, though, who sacrificed salary increases for additional health benefits will want to have their hard fought health plans be taken away by voting for Bernie?
Bernie appeals to the young because why would they want to pay for health care or pay for college when they think can get it for free.
I know a person from north of Toronto who was forced to queue up for a knee replacement. He waited 15 months before he could schedule the procedure. Waiting lines are the norm in Canada and the UK for procedures that are considered quality of life versus life threatening.
Bottom line. If Biden is the nominee, I'm afraid Bernie and his supporters will sit in darkened rooms and sulk. And Trump wins.
Biden supporters will, for the most part, vote for nominee Bernie. Why? Because the average Biden supporter wants Trump out of the White House more than anything else. And that they realize that the social agenda of Bernie's will never get through Congress. The average Bernie supporter may not show up in November if Biden wins because they took their ball and went home to that darkened room.
1
@slime2
What would that same person with the knee problem do in the US? Wait 15 months or wait forever because they couldn't afford to have it at all?
Waiting is not "the norm" in Canada. Wait times for procedures are published in government statistics, and yes, urgent cases take priority. If you have an abnormal scan that indicates cancer, you get a biopsy and treatment is started within 5 days.
If you have an elective procedure that can wait and you choose to live in the middle of nowhere, you either have to move to an urban center or you wait. "North of Toronto" is not a place. People in the middle of nowhere in the US can't get healthcare easily without moving either.
3
I have little faith in Joe Biden's vision an equitable America. He is part of the problem. The way he handled the Burisma affair is a case in point. He should have told his son the arrangement was unacceptable: bad judgement and bad optics. I can only surmise that he's lived in the 'rich are different' world for so long, he's forgotten that nepotism and big payouts for access to power are not exactly democratic ideals. Yes, it goes on all day long behind closed doors, but Joe seemingly couldn't be bothered to even pretend. And suddenly he's a standard bearer for everything decent in America? He may call us 'folks,' but he's anything but folksy.
I will vote for him, if need be. But my heart belongs to a not very glamorous guy devoted to liberty and justice for all - Bernie Sanders.
10
@CC
Biden's corruption doesn't just stop at Burisma. Even his "cancer moonshot" program/"charity" was a vehicle for Biden's brother to curry favor with healthcare executives, promising access and investments in exchange for cash.
Before it closed, the charity did nothing but convince Bristol Myers Squibb to donate $35 million to them, for "cancer research". There are more than enough cancer research fundraising charities.
1
Reality check. If Biden or Sanders are nominated, Trump wins and a bunch of down the card Dems lose. Senate stays R and a good chance House returns to R. End of story and probably, end of civilization as we know it.
1
@Big Al yup Sanders and Biden in their selfish quest will hand the election to Trump.
Vote Bloomberg.
1
We saw how it turned out in 2016 when the Democratic Party put all its weight behind a Republican light / moderate / centrist Hillary Clinton. The same will happen in 2020 if Biden is the nominee.
6
Joe has serious mental issues going on, and Bernie would ruin our economy, not to mention our country in general. Pete was the only one that had a chance, but he got bought. NYT's continues to print these ridiculous opinions.
3
I like Bernie's ideas but I don't think he can win against Trump.
I have no real problem with Biden except the deep fear that he is like all Democrat politicians who talks about Education, Healthcare, and Income Inequality but never actually follows through when they are in office -- there is a reason why both Trump and Sanders voters want to burn the system down after all.
I hope that if Biden does win, he doesn't pull a Hillary and decides that the Left is irrelevant and chooses his version of a Tim Kaine. In a campaign full of missteps Kain was one of Hillary's biggest. Elizabeth Warren or Stacey Abrams would be hella complimentary to Biden.
If Sanders wins, I don't know. I can't see him choosing a corporate democrat as a running mate. Not even to help his chances with the middle. Which is one of the reasons I don't think he can win.
1
Polls show as much as polls can show anything that both candidates could beat Trump.
That is not the real reason for the preferences given by most informed people. Those are excuses.
The real reasons are reform or no reform. It is change vs status quo before Trump. And yes, for the supporters aligned on each side, it is a replay of Hillary vs Bernie. Trump is only the excuse, because as near as anyone can tell they can both do that.
3
I don’t get a lot of moments when I feel like I have good choices in the current incarnation of the American political system.
I find I dislike the Democratic candidates more often than not, but I abhor the Republicans.
And while I wish I could have better choices, or get my first choice, I will vote for Team Blue with a song in my heart until such time as I can be convinced the Republicans are actually interested in governing (and at least average-postmaster-in-a-small-town capable of doing it. Current Republicans are more drunk-muskrat-in-dumpster-fire capable.)
And then, after Hell freezes over ...
2
Franklin Delano Roosevelt could not get elected today!
I listened to Joe Biden last night and saw how the
Establishment, Corporate (3rd Way) Democrats formed ranks around him and came away with a few thoughts ...
Joe wants to form alliances and work with Moderate Republicans (are there any left?) to bring the Country back to before Trump. Joe apparently does not remember how the GO/Tea treated the Obama/Biden Administration, not just saying No to everything they wanted to do, but, Hell No! He's ignoring the Right-Wing Republican agenda of Suppressing Voters, remaking the Courts with back bench, 4th tier lawyers into Federal Judges with Corrupt Ideologies for Lifetime Appointments. Joe has a short memory!
Also the Democrat Establishment says big ideas and big policies can not work ... people will vote against a Democratic Socialist, Social Democrat agenda. Really?
I think that if FDR was around today and running for President he would certainly be labeled by Republicans as a "Socialist", however ... I think that the Corporate, Establishment DEMOCRATS would say that FDR was too far left and his ideas and polices would not be supported by the voters! Really?
The Democrats have become scared rabbits ... Everything is let's do this incrementally (which is "it won't get done speak") and not rock the boat ... Status Quo ... FDR couldn't get nominated today by today's Democrat Establishment!
5
The politics today are more about who has the most money to buy votes than who has the best vision for America. We are missing diversity in the race as the minority candidates dropped out due to the lack of money. Contrast that with Bloomberg's entrance into the race using only his vast wealth to propel his campaign.
Only two will be left standing at the close of today's polls, Sanders and Biden. One with the support of the Democratic establishment, and the other with the support of the more liberal wing of the party. May the best person win and pledge to support the other in the quest to defeat Trump.
2
One point in Biden's favor as far as electability goes is that he is a Christian. There is sufficient anti-Semitism among the voting public to keep Bloomberg and Sanders longshots.
Who would do better against Trump??? Either one. My Golden Retriever would beat Trump in a head-to-head match up. But then so would my pet coronavirus.
5
Trump is the corrupt establishment on steroids. Biden is the corrupt establishment on tranquillizers. Bernie Sanders is the corrupt establishment on honesty, compassion and integrity.
8
Gail, Congratulations on the Trump slur on your last article. If he's insulting you, you know you struck home.
4
Well, the candidates dropping out look as though they are backing Biden, along with the Democrat establishment. Trump speaking at rallys 1hour+ and off-the-cuff reminds me of Seinfeld and similar behind the microphone. Sanders is one speech and Biden...
@David H.
How about substituting the words mainstream, centrists, moderates for the pejorative -establishment.
How about Bernie Bros not acting holier than thou.
1
@David H. *rallies for 1 hour+
Who would do better against Trump?
Nobody knows.
2
Both will lose to Trump. Only Bloomberg has a chance
2
The answer to the question in your headline is: Elizabeth Warren would do the best against Trump.
3
Who would beat Trump in a debate? In the general election? Who would govern best? Neither of them. Warren!!!!!
2
Same blather, different year. I'm 70+ and every 4 years; no matter the Candidates for Pres., it's the same rhetoric. The poor, the dis-advantaged middle class, the envy of the rich who rob the rest of us. Get over it - please! There is not a single Dem who can beat Trump. What's next? - Hillary, Oprah, Michelle? Or who will the DNC Masters pull out of their Magical Hat? I don't have to like Trump but I'm going with the positive results from the last 3 years. Of course there are many negatives as there are with All past Presidents. But, the current Dem field is a joke in poor taste. Trump in a Landslide!
2
Don’t overthink. The person who can beat trump is the person who’s getting more votes in primaries and generating more enthusiasm from the next generation.
When you’re told your candidate can’t win, it diverts your vote, and those of thousands of others, to a candidate more palatable to...the press, the DNC, and an imagined electorate who’ve already endorsed the guy who “can’t win” in their primaries. He can win if we vote for him (or her) in defiance of what we’re told.
5
Where is the article extolling the pick of the New York Times, Elizabeth Warren? Why aren’t the voters choosing the “correct” candidate?
2
In 2001, Grover Norquist said:
"I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub."
Now, due to Trump&Co's (including John Bolton) completely trashing and shredding of ALL the safety nets Obama left in place in that in the wake of the Ebola crisis of 2014, SOLELY BECAUSE THEY WERE OBAMA'S, Norquist is getting his wish.
The result is the inability to protect Americans from a HIGHLY infectious virus that is 20 times more deadly than the common flu. (see the CDC's #s of infections and fatalities for the last flu season).
Pneumonia, the usual killer here, is like drowning in your own fluids, not much different than Norquist's bathtub.
This is why both Bernie and Biden are infinitely better in the White House than Trump. In fact, it's hard to imagine many who would NOT be better (OK, maybe not Mike Huckabee, Steve King, or Louis Gohmert).
1
All these columns by New York Times writers—especially the anti-Bernie ones—are asking questions that should be asked in six months.
Right now the answer is: what do the polls say?
4
@Joe
And about those polls that said Hilary was in a landslide against DJT in 2016?
1
I'm torn on who really does better vs Trump. Bernie seems to have the young disenfranchised middle aged and young progressive base, but Biden has always polled best across more key demographics like latinos, african american's and moderates. I have to assume Biden would fare better, but Bernie may debate better on a stage with Trump. Whatever data the DNC has they better use it and unify together. This is the most beatable President in 50 years and they are infighting. Its frustrating with so much at stake.
2
Tulsi! Tulsi!
Just kidding. Someone needed to utter her name one last time before she drops out...
1
I am constantly amazed the narrative that one debate performance is enough to sink a candidate. Being an excellent debater does not mean you are an excellent executive. I highly doubt that people like Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Satya Nadella, Sundar Pichai would be able to hold their own in a debate forum like ones these candidates participate in.
I want someone at the helm who is:
Intelligent
Can assemble a team of leaders around them who are capable
Excellent at execution
Bloomberg is the only one who has the above qualities. Sanders, Warren, Biden don't meet the criteria of being excellent at execution.
4
I can only pray that Biden is endowed by his Creator to complete coherent sentences and quit giving Colbert's joke writers such an easy lark with the grins and aviator glasses.
4
Too bad you don’t provide a link to the “Stone cold loser”’s column...
In America the label “socialist” is easily as bad as “atheist” and very nearly as bad as “pedophile”
Bernie would lose on a McGovern scale
3
Gail, Congratulations.
It’s going to be a big surprise: Joe AND Liz. For the Win. And shouty Bernie and Grouchy Mike can go on Vacation, together.
Seriously.
3
"No one likes Bernie." Hillary Clinton and me.
It is adorable that you're all thinking so hard about what a Biden or Sanders presidency will mean. No one knows what is going to happen so grow up, Democrats, stop whining. You'll vote blue no matter who because that's what the times call for.
Is it too late for Alfred E. Neuman to enter the 2020 race?
dear GOD make them 10 to 20 years younger -
2
Mikey, leave the cash, take the cannoli!
Congrats Gail!
Having been called a hateful thing by the thousandaire is a badge of honor.
2
You’re staring at the best candidate the Democrats have had since Obama, and you somehow think ANY of those three old white guys is more electable than her?
You ARE the bias.
You’ve allowed four non representative states to control the narrative, because you’re so afraid of liberals. Its not polls, you ignored Elizabeth Warren when she shot up to 2nd nationally in the polls. This has gone on all race long, it’s more outward now than ever, and I can’t think of a better example than yesterday’s shameful and pathetic “Biden or Bernie. Period” headline. Shame on you.
Let people vote!
3
Biden
Polls have indicated that Sanders has a better chance of beating Trump than any other candidate. So if the purpose is to beat Trump, why is the Democrat leadership so intent to get him out of the way for Biden. Maybe they just don't believe the polls. Bloomberg did offer someone with leadership ability. He ran NYC with its huge size and all of its diversity and problems. But one thing he will probably do if elected, is let everyone know just who is in power. It won't be Pelosi, Schumer or the DNC. But if Mueller, or Schiff with Impeachment can't get rid of Trump, why do they think Biden can? As stated in another article, Biden has huge baggage. Sanders followers are avid. They believe that the DNC actively acted to stop Sanders in 2016 and the leaked emails indicate they are right. Lately we have seen the same leaders, as well as news agencies, do everything the can to push Sanders aside. Super delegates and a brokered convention are widely discussed as ways to get rid of Sanders. But as indicated, they are in danger of outraging Sanders voters. So if things go like the way they are going, look for Trump to be in the White House another four years.
3
Elizabeth Warren
3
Elizabeth Warren
3
The amusing thing is that once Warren throws in towel the Dem party will be left with 3 old white men approaching 80 years old. So much for the "woke" revolution and the party of diversity.
5
Only in the world of Gail's magical thinking is Sanders able to defeat Trump. Trump or Sanders is a win-win for Putin. He gets a comrade or a comrade.
2
The 3 B's: Not Beethoven, Bach, and Brahms, but Bernie, Biden, and Bloomberg for President.
So do the math: If one of these 3 presidential B's were elected in 2020, Bernie would be 79 and Biden and Bloomberg each 78 years old; by 2024 they would be 83 or 84. Then perhaps the winner would want a second term, which would mean that person would be either 87 or 88.
Donald will be 74 on June 14 (ironically that is Flag Day)--unless, of course, he is lying about his age.
Here is my concern. Trump and his Z-team have made a horrible mess of our country and in foreign relations.
Question: Which of the 3 B's has the energy it will take just to get our country back to a normal democracy after all the wreckage Hurricane Donald has left in his wake?
As these primaries settle out, whichever B is left standing should announce he will run for only 1 term, and choose a energetic VP who loves a challenge and is hard worker (Klobuchar 59, Buttigieg 38, Kamala Harris 55, Stacy Abrams 46, or ???
1
@PB I'd rather have a W that is young enough to serve 2 terms.
At this point, all that I can think about is who my suburban neighbor who voted for Trump because she "didn't like Hillary" would vote for.
We need to heal as a country. Biden/Harris. (That being said, I'll support whoever is the nominee!)
2
Two things. The notion that we consider how a candidate performs in a staged, live quiz-show format as a qualification for the Presidency is absurd and reveals the intellectual bankruptcy of most of the electorate. Second, I detest Sanders. He is Leftist Trump. Hateful, divisive, and a policy moron. But, I'll vote for him rather than the insane, idiot, would-be dictator currently in office.
2
A Bernie win will assure we hear Ross Perot’s famous “ giant sucking sound” as capital, jobs , corporations and people head for the exit.
2
Wish the Democrats would understand they should try to defeat Trumpty Dumpty, not Bernie. Listen to what voters are telling you and don't try to circumvent their choice. However it goes, Democrats need to achieve a majority candidate for their convention. Anything less provides Trumpty Dumpty a case study in the Dem's inability to lead. How ironic is that?
3
Uncle Joe has had his chances, over and over again in a variety of capacities in government, and he didn't get it right and he didn't get it done.
Time to retire ol' Joe, and let the other old guy take the helm.
4
I will vote for a Democrat, not Bernie.
1
@Be balanced funny you should say that. Bloomberg was a Republican yesterday. Trump was a democrat yesterday.
I will be voting for Bloomberg in my state's primary.
You may not like the fact that Mike is a real, real billionaire - but one thing is certain, Trump and Putin hate the fact that Mike is a real, real billionaire. Trump's hardcore base too. Believing Trump is the financial genius he's claimed he is and that he's an effective leader is all they had overtly. Subvertly, they have the racism. They will hate a Bloomberg Nom.
I will be voting for Mike. Fact.
3
Neither of them.
If Joe gets the nod, we will be inundated with hearings and commercials about him being handsy and confused and [more damaging] Hunter Biden. Fox will become HNN [Hunter News Network]. It's especially damaging because--any average person looks at it and thinks the truth--no way Hunter Biden gets that cushy job unless the company thinks it can sway his father in some way. Doesn't matter that I genuinely don't think Joe would be swayed--it just looks bad and Trump would get beaucoup mileage out of it.
If Bernie gets the nod, Fox rebrands as ASNN [Anti Socialism News Network]. If you want to win a general election in these United States, do not call yourself a Socialist, Democratic or otherwise. Too many people who can vote actually came from a country with Socialism and they don't think it's cute.
At this point I am just praying we don't lose the House of Representatives.
2
Our military is a socialist institution and we are supposed to bow and kneel before it.
It's important to remember that this column, like most in the NYT, is written by white people. To get a wider perspective, consider what a Latina and Black man wrote in their NYT news analysis about Nevada:
" the long-promised political revolution of Mr. Sanders came to vivid life, a multiracial coalition of immigrants, college students, Latina mothers, younger black voters, white liberals and even some moderates who embraced his idea of radical change and lifted him to victory"
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/22/us/politics/how-sanders-won-nevada.html
2
I'm not for trading one kook for another. Bernie needs to be defeated. He will upend our economy and cause gov't to grind to a halt. let's move forward a stop electing radicals to the WH.
3
ONCE again, we the coastal cool, health club belonging, well informed are using ourselves as the barometer of the U.S.A. It is not about, who I like or dislike. It is not about who you, eight dollar a cup, pseudo coffee drinking, east and west coast Democrats like.
It's about who those swing state families who love America, who stand and sing the Star Spangled Banner with more feeling that they sing Happy Birthday to their own children will vote for...
Guess what, they won't be voting for a Moscow honeymooning, Castro admiring, Socialist.
They love America, give them a candidate that they can feel is a family member, not a ranting, crazy old hippie and then America we care for and miss will once again flourish.
3
The poor deserve Bernie or Liz. The rest of you deserve Trump. We will see who wins, but if the US doesn't turn away from the right, including so called "centrist" democrats it will continue to decline. Which is probably okay since we likely only have ten years to act aggressively against climate change. After that pompous considerations of political opinions will be moot.
I think in the long run we are better of with Trump than Biden. Biden will preside over a no change, keep the economy humming, head in the sand government. He'll stretch out the current situation and fail to act on any real change because moderate democrats get their best ideas from republicans, like the ACA. On the other hand, Trump will crash the country and world, which actually may be good for future generations, and probably even the kids of today since it will hinder our ability to kill ourselves, collectively speaking.
I do believe that four more years of Trump will be very hard on the people who don't live in reality. These are the people who prevent us from becoming a better nation, and so it is possibly better to let them have what they deserve rather than protect them form their own failure to see reality. This go equally for Trumpists and The so called moderate democrats.
As for those of us who see straight, we are already set up and prepared to live in the land of the lost brain cells. We have been doing it all our lives.
1
Socialism is Sanders weakness among many Americans. Biden's weakness is Ukraine and his son. Trump will exploit both big time.
Bloomberg's weakness is NDAs and treatment of minorities.
Trump is worse on both counts. So he can't use it against Bloomberg.
I still believe, all things considered, Bloomberg has the best chance to beat Trump in the general. And save down ballot Democrats while he's at it.
2
It absolutely boggles my mind that anyone can think Joe Biden has a serious shot against Trump. In three presidential campaigns he's won ONE primary and every establishment Democrat thinks he's God's gift. Joe Biden is practically senile, he doesn't have a single original thought in his head, has zero charisma, runs a poorly organized campaign, is a terrible debater...the list goes on and on. If Bernie does well today, the DNC will continue to twist itself into knots to make Biden the nominee and he will lose. Anyone who imagines any other outcome is completely delulsional.
4
Sanders vs Trump will produce the highest ever vote total for “other”. I would not vote for either one.
Biden vs Trump. Is it enough to promise that Biden will have smart people around him & that he’d take their advice? Our choice...one guy lies through his teeth...the other lies but doesn’t realize he’s lying.
Have you seen the video of Biden at one of his rallies reciting the Declaration of Independence and forgetting "all men are created equal". This is the guy who is going to beat trump?
3
My Buttigieig yard sign comes down today. Tomorrow, it'll be replaced with a Sanders yard sign.
4
Corona aside, the Republican Party has not dealt with the existing Public Health Problem which is an on-going morbid fact that each year between 25,000 and 45,000 Americans die due to lack of healthcare brought on by the inability to afford health insurance. They have to avoid seeing a doctor for fear of not being able to feed their children or pay rent. The health insurance industry slathers money on Republicans only to have them subterfuge the Affordable Care Act. So millions of Americans go broke and thousands die. Thanks “conservatives”! What actually do you “conserve” anyway? Not lives evidently. Joe Biden, Amy Klobuchar and other Dems won’t fix this. Only Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren will attempt to fix this. I and many, many others are voting Bernie all the way!!
2
Here is hoping that today's primary results are Stephens worst nightmare.
4
I think that the editorial board and columnists need to accept that Bernie Sanders has a real chance of being the next POTUS and stop doing everything they can to stop him short of endorsing Donald Trump.
2
You NYTimes writers are leaving someone out. Mr Bloomberg. He will spend a couple of fortunes to run for President and then he will just go away? I think not because he is rich and has "promised" this nation that "he" would "get rid of Donald Trump". I saw it on his commercials. He has said on the debate stage that he was the "only one" who could beat Trump. The question to Bloomberg needs to be "if not chosen as the nominee, will you go home or go Independent? I predict he is another Ralph Nader in the making. The Bernie Bros WILL take to the streets and attack the internet from their basement lairs. Your party will split with either Joe or Mike and a mess is in your futures. Republicans will watch with glee! Trump will win! You are so Welcome!
Naomi Klein shared this on Twitter "Some folks seem to be looking at Biden like a comfortable old sweater they can put on to recover after the trauma of trump.
Here's the trouble: the house is on fire. And that old sweater is soaked in fracked gas."
1
Michael Bloomberg and Joe Biden are the 2 candidates most qualified to be POTUS: Bloomberg by virtue of his experience as mayor of NYC and Biden in view of his experience as vice-POTUS. Bloomberg is also a genius, an engineer, an inventor, a successful businessman, an entrepreneur, and a generous philanthropist, who has donated time and funds, inter alia, to promote gun control and to WHO for improving access to health services and reduce deaths from preventable diseases, traffic accidents, drowning, tobacco, obesity, and alcohol worldwide.
3
I think it’s important to remember that, like most in the NYT, this column is written by white commentators. For a balanced perspective, I honk it’s valuable to recall the nyt op ed written by a Latina and an African American man (feb 22), after the Nevada caucus:
“...the long-promised political revolution of Mr. Sanders came to vivid life, a multiracial coalition of immigrants, college students, Latina mothers, younger black voters, white liberals and even some moderates who embraced his idea of radical change and lifted him to victory...”
2
I'm sure this is a dumb question by an onlooker - but if Biden and Bernie both want to put country over party - why don't they each select the other as VP if they win the nomination? Wouldn't that cover all the bases?
- I get that they are both 2 old white guys - but then maybe they could give cabinet posts to all the younger candidates - so that they could implement all the policies ... especially medicare... Biden seems to be running on being a "uniter." Why doesn't he unite within his own party? And Bernie, too, could benefit - if he was given the nomination - from the experience of Biden...
Bret, the Tartan tie was great. Still, didn't work for Tom. Don't know what clan it represented, but he didn't find many members of that clan in the election in SC. Three old(er) white men against one really bad older white man. Gee.
Forget "radical chic." My fellow Democrats will earn the label "radical silly" if they nominate Bernie to lose to an omniscient -- and of course perfect -- guy like Trump.
The choice is between a consistent humanitarian and a glib warmonger. The choice is clear for anyone of conscience.
1
As usual, what a delightful column. A light touch of humor in a time of severe problems.
It must be difficult to expose your thoughts on the morning of Super Tuesday, just 24 hours away from the possibility that the voters could make a fool of you.
Joe Biden is deteriorating mentally. His constant memory lapses, and gaffes are a major mental health problem.
I predict he will have a total neurological collapse by the end of this month.
In light of his declining mental faculties, and his overall lackluster political record, he is unfit to run, much less be the nominee of the Democrats.
Drop Out Joe.
3
But there is no question. It's Biden. It's always been Biden. Just ask my fellow Wisconsinites who regret having voted for Trump who they support. BIDEN!
2
Gail: It’s very strange to be living in a time when being attacked personally by the president of the United States gets you a day full of congratulations.
I am so jealous! May even beat getting on Nixon's enemies list. Add me to your list of congratulations. Gail.
1
As an independent I'm astounded ow stupid have we become that defeating Donald Trump strips us of our objectivity and voting responsibility to vet and elect the right candidate. Replacing 1 fool with another is apparently the thing the Democrats are stuck on doing and at all cost. Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders are absurd choices.
Poor Biden spends his time tongue tied and waffling down the middle of the road with not one cogent new idea. He won SC by buying the support of the local crowd thinker. Bernie Sandersis very comfortable giving money to a Congress and Government whose collective ROI for the Taxpayer is less than 0. Sanders concept of Free means simply this ---it has no Value ---and turning us all into a 3rd world South American nation is just a bad idea.
NYT where are the real resumes of the candidates. Stop focusing on how many Digital subscriptions your selling and do your jobs. We are getting nothing from your reporting that gives us all a pragmatic view of what we have in these candidates have done and what they are doing.
If ever Sanders gets the presidency, US national history books will have to rewritten to make place of all the attempts of patriotic Americans to propose socialist measures for the good of the-have-nots.
Only two mentions of Elizabeth Warren, and both of them back-handed. And I thought sexism was dead...
1
I was not happy to see the Democratic National Party seemingly, likely, orchestrate a one day dramatic endorsement of the uninspiring Joe Biden by several candidates “and not Bernie” right before Super Tuesday.
It reminded me of 2016.
And who are the “Whips” for the DNC. I’d like to see more journalism on who really orchestrates resistance to the far left. I know it’s not Donna Brazil and Debbie Wasserman Schultz.
3
Stop pretending that Bernie is an ideologue and Bret is a pragmatist. The truth is close to the opposite. What's missing from that all-to-common analysis in these columns and in these comments is that pragmatically speaking, we spend way more than other countries on healthcare and get way less. A "pragmatist," nay, a "fiscally minded person," would see this and realize that for-profit healthcare is a failure. Socialist or not, Bernie is right about that, full stop.
But "no, markets have to be more efficient and good" evidence be damned! This is what Krugman routinely mocks as the mutterings of "serious people" who in fact pay no attention to the facts as they are. This is what is meant by "neo-liberlism" and it is an ideology as blind to realities as Marxist Leninism was in East Germany.
This is the guts of the Bernie revolt and I have not heard it expressed in these pages. Instead, Bernie support is treated as some wildly naive and childlike wishful thinking. But that is precisely how ideology works. Blinded to their own ideology, Bret and cohort define themselves as merely "pragmatic" or "common sense." It is YOU, Bret, who can't see straight.
2
An apt subtitle might be Weekend at Bernies (regarding Sleepy Joe).
2
It wasn't that Buttigieg couldn't "capitalize" on his Iowa win: it was the erasure of him, despite being the first openly gay candidate and one who won the first primary. That should have mattered, but the fact that it didn't wasn't his fault.
The erasure would be bad enough coming from the bigoted right, but the fact that it also came from the cultist left doesn't bode well.
1
Neither one for me.
I never vote to elect the rich. People who do so lose the authority to complain that the government doesn't respond to the needs of working people.
And again we hear the inane comment that a write-in or "third party" vote is a vote for the republican. Hilarious how that works!
I can only invoke the words of an actual American Socialist, not a landed-gentry millionaire: "I'd rather vote for what I want and not get it than vote for what I don't want and get it." - Eugene V. Debs.
Panic-stricken voters do not think.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
2
Let's hope that last line is true in November (no matter what "pundits" may say between now and then)...Dump Trump 2020 (i.e. anyone but DT).
Warren. Warren. Warren.
You cannot render her invisible just by closing your eyes and pretending.
1
First of all, congrats on "cold stone loser". Do not stop writing. please.
"Biden sounds like a great shot if he can avoid, um, falling into incoherence." Compared to, um, Trump? I would love to see that. Maybe people will start making bets ahead of the debates.
A vote for Bloomberg is a vote for Sanders. Then Biden drops out of the race.
1
Well here goes with a positive message, and nary a snarky word about the "democratic socialist" which got my last three comments unapproved. Bias at the Gray Lady?
We have an emergency. It's called Trump and his enablers. A second term with this unhinged carnival barker narcissist on steroids is unthinkable. Our institutions will be damaged beyond repair and our polarization will be at levels not seen since 1861 when the South left the Union.
In another worthy news journal a white suburban woman Trump voter was interviewed. She can't stomach him and would vote for a moderate Dem. I live in the burbs. There are enough voters like her in my neck of the woods to turn this 2020 election around. It's as simple as that.
Absolutely no contest. For Trump, Biden is fish is a barrel. At his last rally already Trump gleefully joked effectively about Biden's well known senescence. Throw in Hunter Biden. Trump will feast on this as well, exploiting the natural outrage of ordinary folks while railing on the "fake news media" and "failing New York Times" insisting any allegations of corruption "completely unfounded." Then there are all the Biden gaffes yet to come. No need to even go into his record. Four more years.
2
I think it's rather instructive to the world that in the end the top two contenders in the Democratic Party are two elderly white males, one of whom is an avowed socialist and the other suffering from obvious cognitive deficits and often unable to finish a sentence.
The minority candidates, Kamala and Cory, were eliminated early in the game. So much for the "Party of Inclusion" which likes to label Republicans as racists.
1
If you want the candidate who has the most achievable plan to minimize global warming, Joe Biden is the one! Why? Because he has science on his side, in the form of nuclear power!
I think the main point of these "conversations", especially this one today, is to prompt discussions amongst us that NYT can steer through their NYT Picks and the Reader Picks that tightly follow from this. NYT has both clear and cryptic opposition to Bernie Sanders and their news and op-ed articles on Super Tuesday are heavily used for both. Forget about being selected to ramp up public opinion, if this comment even gets posted it will be remarkable!
1
Recently, with the Covid19 situtation, the burning continent of Australia, rising sea levels, the desert grasshoppers storming east Africa, and The Donald, I have upped my praying schedule. I pray to Christ as usual, but have added Sufi worship, the black rock of Mecca, Buddha, Tara from the Himalayas, and all of the Hindu pantheon. Will you join me?
One thing the Biden folks refuse to discuss (as do the Bloomberg bots) is that their blazing gun hatred will be a strong motivation for many voters to oppose them. I doubt it antigun sentiment is an equally strong force. I note the Times never discusses this, as it likes gun bans.
Despite Trump being vile, the absolutist positions by both, will give voters another of the lesser of two evils approach. Joe, who is an absolute ignoramus on the technical issues of gun control does not display brilliance in other dimensions. He is just an establishment (no threat to Chuck Todds, Bret's, Friedman's, Brooks' bucks and membership in the elite world) hack.
His claim that he passed an assault rifle bill , meh - well, peer reviewed research indicated the bill had NO effect on any crime indices. It's been known for years since first presented at professional meetings such as the American Society of Criminology.
He will put Beto in charge of gun control - Beto who posits complete confiscatory policies?
Maybe gun rights vs control won't be a large factor. Trump being so vile might carry the day for Joe. That's why Trump is/was a fool. Shutting his mouth and he would have had no trouble against Joe.
Who would do better vs Trump?
Mike Bloomberg
And he doesn’t treat his followers as an ATM
2
Trump's administration is horrifically unprepared and unable to handle a pandemic but there are still dedicated professionals in the federal government and state governments that will take care of business. This makes his followers think he has done well but of course anyone keeping track knows otherwise. You cannot convince the true believers that Trump is a failure. They still walk around thinking--with no evidence--that Obama was the worst president ever. If you try to have a decent conversation with a Trumper and explain that Obama was not that far left and that Biden would not be either, they look at you like you are from Mars. But, on that same note, Bret Stephens thinks Sanders is the second coming of Castro, which is ridiculous.
If the party establishment, again, takes the nomination away from Bernie, Bernie supporters will, again, cast a protest vote for Trump.
It’s that simple. It’s watching the establishment’s chess moves shenanigans to, again, checkmate Bernie that makes Bernie supporters barf....
For most Bernie supporters, better Trump than Biden (or Buttigieg or Klobuchar, et. al.)
So, Dems, you wanna play that game again? Ok, it’s on. No Bernie, no Presidency for Dems....sit back and watch who wins. Because the establishment on both sides are disgusting and waaay past their “sell by” date.
Now, it’s just a matter of waiting until the Dem’s center finally collapses. We have time. We’re young. The Center is old and sclerotic. Bring on round two! If that’s how you wanna play it...the real left will eventually win, as we pry your old, knarled, establishment fingers off the power scepter. Time (and demographics) is on our side.
2
How have we come to the place where three, nearly 80 year old white men, will likely be our only choices for President?
Is this 2020 or 1920?
6
I will Vote Blue No. Matter. Who.
2
Can’t we just get along. Join forces already, and make that promise of cabinet posts for every other contender. We DO want to WIN, right? Or is this that other reality show: The Biggest Loser?
2
Voting for Biden is closing your eyes and wishing you could UN do 2016 by making the exact same mistakes as last time. Establishment politician with three decades of baggage? Check. Obama tied candidate with shady over seas dealings and ties to “corruption”? Check. A candidate who will not be supported by the progressive voters who gave trump the election in 2016? Check.
You think Hillary’s emails were bad? Wait till trump inc gets started with Hunter. Burisma is the new Benghazi. At least against with Bernie all they can do is go after his policy proposals. Does Biden even have any of those?
4
It's going to be Biden.
Not because he is the right guy, or he is competent or clean and honest. He lacks such qualities.
It is because the DNC is going to crown him the winner, no matter what.
That Amy and Pete just up and capitulated so they could chant his name, is just the latest backstabbing that party has done to their own people.
Why even pretend you wanted black, gay, Latin or women to run, when at the end they were all going to bend and support the white rich old Washington insider man.
The one thing the Democrats have been chanting about, alternative, inclusivity, minority, women, etc. All that was just bread and circus.
At the end the DNC was going to nominate Biden.
And you Democrats were going to support him any way.
Sorry Bernie, your own party will make sure you loose.
GOP should be salivating now, ready to pounce on day one with Biden's skeletons and scandals the likes it will make you blush.
Amazing how you Democrats hand delivered Trump his re-election.
6
Only Bret and Gail could share such a strong and unquestioned presumption that Stacey Abrams is a progressive.
1
Trump needs to go, but I will be very surprised if either Sanders or Biden (assuming that one of them gets the nomination and Bloomberg doesn't, somehow, buy the nomination) this November.
Sanders may represent the progressives in the Democratic Party, but I think he is about to hit his ceiling. In the General Election, people may not like Trump, but I think Sanders' platform is too extreme for the rest of the country to follow and he has zero chance of getting congressional support. So, his platform will be DOA if he ever takes office.
Biden represents the establishment in the Democratic Party and many of the Sanders's supporters are likely to not vote for him this November if he becomes the nominee. They may not vote for Trump, but they might vote for some third-party as a protest vote which, essentially, re-elects Trump.
Our best shot, in my opinion, is focusing on keeping the House and trying to gain more power in the Senate. If Sanders is the nominee, I think we lose both. If Biden is the nominee, I think Trump still gets re-elected, but we might at least control all of Congress to slow Trump down a bit.
Those who think “moderate” Republicans will vote for a moderate Democrat are delusional. This administration has passed some of the most effective Republican legislation in generations. They won’t give up that cudgel.
Rallying behind a moderate in the pocket of special interests will lead to a repeat of 2016. We have here another former senator who authorized the Iraq war.
As an American living in Canada, I can tell you national health insurance is not a bad idea, and though it will take systemic change, it will be better for absolutely everyone in the long run.
Elections shouldn’t be blue v red. They should be an assessment of ideas.
2
I guess the DNC/"powers that be" decided a woman (Elizabeth Warren, who, FYI is STILL IN THE RACE) is "unelectable".
2
Bernie, Biden, and Trump: America can do better.
All three are terribly flawed.
With that said, I'll stick with the devil I know.
2
Bret:
" Bloomberg then rallies a sufficient number of moderate Democrats to deny Sanders ...."
Stephens wants Bloomberg and wants to prevent Sanders. The former is an avid unconditional supporter of an immoral Israel. The latter is critical of Israel's human rights abuse and violations of international law.
1
Bernie Sanders said he would rather lose to Donald Trump than take contributions from Michael Bloomberg. Bret Stephens apparently would rather see Donald Trump re-elected than vote for Bernie Sanders. I think both of them are fools.
Gail said, "Biden sounds like a great shot if he can avoid, um, falling into incoherence."
So Gail’s like every other commentator who won’t talk about the elephant in the room. Again and again you hear people talking around it: is Biden in the midst of a decline due to his age that could be cognitive, but at least appears to be verbal?
So why not get someone who can talk about it? Let's get a gerontologist to listen to Biden, and ask them: do you hear what I hear? Does that mean anything?
1
Grow up, people! Electoral democracy is and always has been an exercise in "you can't always get what you want." We'd better all smarten up and and prepare to accept some compromises. Live to fight another day. I'll vote for ANY Democrat who is nominated in order to get rid of the national disgrace foisted on us by the Trump presidency, and you Bernie supporters should too. The definition of going down in flames would be another four years of the unhinged serial liar in the Oval Office. Get a grip and do the sensible thing, even if it's not your preferred choice.
1
If you cannot decide whether Bernie or Bidin has a better chance of beating Trump, vote by the comedian. Do you want 4 years of Larry David or Woody Harrelson?
I think trump will find a way to usurp power despite elections if they even occur.
His next move is a National Emergency Response and postponement of presidential elections w the excuse of a pandemic which he stoked with fake news and lies and slow response to engage CDC. He had full ongoing reports from friendly autocrats in China et al. That’s my take of his behavior.
Bullies are big babies. He can be destroyed so easily by bravery.
Bravery Congress!!!
Since Congress bows to trump in the face of wage earning citizens and voters sickened and dying they are as responsible as trump in destroying our elections with the circus before us.
Those sickened and recuperating should divulge their experiences to NYTimes please. Or are hospitals being forced to have patients sign Nondisclosure agreements not to divulge their status and experience?
I never heard of health officials and patients being gagged before ever!!!
HIPPA is a joke. Read about the institution of HIPPA. That is being used to prevent transparency and progress here in circumventing numerous cases.
I witness this behavior daily on MSM interviews. As a nurse retired ..,, I have enough intuition to read between the public remarks trump shoves to the microphone. Many gaps never seen in response before by CDC and Congress.
Not normal and deadly for trumps cult at rallies
++>
Important STATE matchup polls show Biden is the one. His margins are bigger
Once again Bernie avoids serious oppo-research and criticism by his opponents; this due to his opponents have always been Dems and NOT the GOP.
The Dems are afraid to offend the Bernie Bros, so Bernie gets a free-ride again......rinse and repeat
But 5 seconds after Bernie's nomination (should that be) the GOP will spring its ambush, and Bernie will undergo a barrage of media etc...negative attacks never experienced before by a POTUS candidate.
When the GOP is done with him, they'll have him marching in the USSR's 1960's May Day parades, kissing Arafat and dancing with Pol Pot; and that will be them just getting warmed up.
The GOP is salivating like a wild band of rabid hyenas ready to devour their surrounded prey.
Plus the GOP will never allow Bernie into the WH.
They'd rather burn it down than allow that given the choice and they have the choice.
1
The *people* want Sanders
2
Joe, telling a Dallas audience you'll pick Beto O'Rourke to lead gun control in the one state where the Second Amendment, gun ownership, and CHL licenses are sacrosanct just sealed your fate here in Texas.
Once again, you must have forgotten where you were.
But then you remember even making the remark?
2
There is absolutely zero reasons to believe that the specifics-free, "free everything", Medicare for all (even the 150 million people who already have insurance through work), free college for Ivanka Trump, raise taxes, charge the difference to the Rich and reduce the US Military (effective Socialism masquerading as national defense for the free world), Anti-Israel, Anathema to Florida and every refugee from a Communist regime (and their descendants) candidate will convince enough voters to win the November Elections.
Additionally -- and this really breaks my heart -- Biden's incoherence is not a laughing matter. Black America has recognized Obama's failure to endorse him for what it is. Remember, SC Carolina did not have the opportunity to vote for Bloomberg -- have you looked at what Bloomberg's pledge to African-Americans is? a lot more African-Americans watch television than do read the NYT. Where you saw Warren triumphant, they saw something else (a hysterical woman screaming unfounded accusations -- every Black man's favorite). Remember Kamala Harris.
There is a reason that Bloombergmanaged to win his 3rd term with a majority of the Black and Brown vote while running against a Black Democrat with Obama's official endorsement. Since they represented 97% of Shooting homicide victims (of the 2.4% White shooting homicide perps all of their victims were White) they knew who was on their side. Blacks know that Black Lives Matter to Bloomberg and his war against the NRA.
1
The “liberal hoax” is the claim that Trump called the virus a hoax. He called the negative coverage and claims of his incompetence a hoax.
Ok, why does it matter? Because moves like this are easily disapproved. Fox is climbing in ratings to rival traditional networks. Internet where everybody can attached a clip to to their post is more important than you.
Time will come at the height of the election when you will publish big, mostly true, Trump damaging piece and nobody will care. Other than your base looking for their daily fix.
Maybe Trump is just too important for business to loose him?
The shots at Mike Bloomberg’s charisma as a television figure are lame. Give me an intelligent, experienced, leader anytime. Do you want your surgeon to have good hands and a wealth of experience, or be a bon-vivant in the operating room?
210
@Grey Agree -though this is not surgery - it requires the highest human skills possible. Presidents are not elected for competency - see Trump - but for creating emotion and enthusiasm. Successful presidents all had this talent.
9
@Grey Your question is beside the point, as I like my Democrats to be Democrats.
Do you want your surgeon to be a surgeon, or billionaire stock trader?
13
@Grey
Agree, agree.
Bernie = shouty guy whose idea will never get past the Senate.
Biden = "I've been there" does not translate into leadership.
Bloomberg - what this country needs.
Warren - adults don't want to be scolded by a schoolteacher (and I am one!)
9
Joe Biden rises from the dead following his disastrous showings in Iowa and New Hampshire, and NY Times columnists are still confidently taking it as a given that Mike Bloomberg has no chance of winning the nomination! Just a little humility, please. (And stop trying to convince people not to support Bloomberg by claiming he has no chance - just let the voters vote).
2
Speaking of humility, what they actually said was that Bloomberg’s first debate performance probably killed his candidacy. Before that, Stephens was pretty gung-ho.
If the moderate voters in the Democratic Party are so averse to the cantankerous Socialist filling stadiums with the generation inheriting the mess the baby boomers have created, why not wonder why Biden did not step aside in favor of a younger, energized candidate- Mayor Perez or Senator Klobuchar? Maybe the Vice President is not quite so palatable after all.However, despite the shortcomings of any Democrat, the priority must be to rescue the republic from Trumpery. Just consider what ruin the unhinged occupant of the White House will do if he gains a second term. As Warren emphasizes, unite and vote blue no matter what your preferences are. Your country- and the world- count on you - us- to restore sanity and respect and leave the world a better place.
1
too bad we're not choosing "who would be best to lead our country forward with a focus on the common goo" - instead all we care about is who can beat the current occupant.
I will vote for whoever the Dems nominate even if it's the angry old man who screams a lot.
People, we are in the midst of a major emergency.
We don't need a one-track, Socialist ideologue who has accomplished absolutely nothing in 30 years of being in Congress.
We don't need a political hack, a reheated party pol who, before South Carolina, in three attempts at the nomination, never won a single state and who is now the Establishment anointed one.
We need Mike Bloomberg who actually got things done in NYC during 12 years.
He is an engineer, a genius at managing people and resources and the person who will guide us through this mess.
He cleaned up NYC and he will do the same for America.
Mike will get it done.
3
Donald Trump, Mitch McConnell and their Reverse Robin Hood Republican caucus are well on their way into turning America into an oligarchic, 3rd-world backwater of authoritarian, religious ignorance, disinformation and white nativism.
If you're sufficiently disturbed by mindless, endless tax-cuts and 0.1% Welfare as the solution to Making America Great Again, perhaps their annual trillion debts should remind you that Trump and the GOP are charlatans and bankruptcy experts of the first order.
Their total disregard of the environment and the EPA should remind you that they are actively accelerating the pollution of the air, the earth, and the water....the very building blocks of life.
Their stacking of the federal judiciary and the Supreme Court via stolen Presidential Elections in 2000 and 2016 means that we now have a Corporate Shariah and Christian Shariah judiciary that has no interest in the civil, voting, economic and health rights of 330 million Americans because they are all Federalist and Billionaire Society props.
The idea that American voters might allow Trump and McConnell to appoint any more Republican 'jurists' to the federal judiciary for another four years should remind you that America might just be building and stepping inside its own coffin.
Remember, Republicans can't stand democracy and they work hard every day and every election to suppress it.
That should remind you that Republican values are not American values.
Vote Blue No Matter Who.
Nov 3 2020
2
Gender is not an issue this time but everything else is
Foreign help
Fox News
Voter Suppression and Gerrymandering
Republican voters fall in line and Democrats have to fall in love
Trump's incumbency
Bernie's and Biden's baggage that will turn some people off while Trump's baggage makes many of his fanatics like him more
I'd prefer: "Take a hike, Mike!" (rather than 'Go away Bloomie.')
1
This country needs a shorter and better system for selecting presidents. All this prognostication about candidates drags on for two years out of every four-year cycle and we still wind up with a loser like Donald Trump. That's depressing.
Bloomberg is in this race for one purpose only...... to prevent a Sanders presidency.
A Sanders presidency is considered a serious threat to the continuation Israel's colonization and subjugation project in Palestine. If Bloomberg fails to block Sanders as the Democratic nominee, then he can at least drive a wedge into the Democratic Party and increases the chances of a Trump win and continued blind support of Israel.
Trump's lame set of priorities makes him very beatable. Climate science denial. More worry over the stock market than the looming travail of a coronavirus outbreak. The feckless dismantling of the infrastructure in place to handle a coronavirus outbreak. These are just the tip of the iceberg awaiting Trump's campaign. Sanders' grass roots campaign is very strong and can expand. He brings democracy to bear against the issues that face the poor and the middle class. There are a vast amount of voters that would benefit from a Sanders' presidency. The travails of income inequality that drags down the middle class and makes the poor more vulnerable. Health care is the area where Sanders' would have the most positive impact. If the coronavirus is as bad as it could be this will cause an explosion of people not having the money to seek medical care. It will even seriously effect those with insurance but living pay check to pay check. Universal health care can be seen as a national security issue.
The short answer?
Neither one of these 2 can beat Trump.
Gail and Bret still don't get it.
They are looking at this as though it's just another Republican vs. Democrat race.
2007 changed all that.
Hundreds of millions of Americans had their faith in the respected institutions of America questioned with the lack of adult supervision regarding our economy and were equally disgusted when not a single person was held accountable.
This is how cities burn when a cop gets off when they kill an unarmed black kid.
This is how Chicago burned during the 1968 Democrat Convention.
When the Establishment sits idly by fattening themselves on the largesse of the bureaucracy they've built around them...eventually one of 2 things is going to happen.
1) There is an explosion of rage and anger..a revolution..if you will...to right past wrongs and settle scores..all intended to reshuffle the deck.
2) Those in power at the top of the hierarchial Establishment finally look in the mirror and confess that they've been a big part of the problem all along...getting fat and happy while America is in decline..not carrying at all about those people lower in the hierarchy who become addicted to welfare, opiates....etc... They finally give enough of their power to allow small d democracy to work.
Republicans have figured this out.
Democrats have not figured this out.
Grab the popcorn folks..the fireworks are about to begin.
50
@Erica Smythe 1) the explosion of rage and anger is on the left...witness record setting registration among the young, not to mention suburban women. And you clearly haven't read the polls.
2) the long overdue seismic electoral paradigm shift has the voters forcing the Dem establishment to face what they couldn't face before: the fact that radicals (Bernie) will carry the day this time around. All those pink hats you saw flooding the streets haven't changed their minds.
14
@Erica Smythe,
Wow. Very well stated.
A significant percentage of NYT readers still generally appear to believe that the system is working, with maybe a few minor tweaks needed.
Upton Sinclair noted in the early 20th century that it’s nearly impossible to get a man to understand something when the continuation of his paycheck depends on his not understanding it.
11
@Erica Smythe I think the repubs were just as confused as anyone when trump got the electoral college vote.
13
This conversation should not write off Warren. The electoral math favors a brokered convention, and she's the most capable President of the bunch, with by far the best policy ideas, and ability to think on her feet, and the best ability to communicate. Woe to the country that meets its savior during a crisis on every front and she can't get 15% in California. Reminds me of the "Grand Inquisitor" section of The Brothers Karamazov, where Jesus returns but can't get a hearing.
1
I'm sorry, but I don't trust anyone writing for The Times when it comes to the Democratic primary race, especially when the subject is electability.
What we know is this: young voters will not turn out for Biden and centrists are threatening to vote for Trump if Sanders is the candidate. We also know that the corporations that own the mainstream news media outlets will never say anything nice about Sanders. I am 100% certain that Biden will be exposed as an out-of-touch, doddering guy without a real platform and he will lose badly to Trump. He will lose all the same states that Clinton lost. When he does, young people and progressives again will be unjustifiably blamed.
I say let's go with the candidate, Sanders, who crushes the competition among young voters and strongly admonish the disloyal party insiders and corporate bosses who would thumb their noses at the next generation and bring us 4 more years of Trump just to avoid some inevitable change.
5
"Next, Bloomberg announces that Stacey Abrams will be his running mate, which she accepts despite the same offer from Sanders and Biden. This pragmatic-progressive ticket goes on to win in November."
This is the answer. Bloomberg could give Adams $1 billion to keep voting honest and challenge discreprencies. We need to take out the big guns at this point. Politics ain't beanbag.
1
@Brainfelt
So the "big guns" is just slapping a Democrat pin on a Republican?
No kindly billionaire sweeps in to give you whatever you want without strings attached. Bloomberg made it clear that if you're on his payroll, there are restrictions.
The fact that everyone who has endorsed him has been literally paid to do so or been the beneficiary of his philanthropy should give you a clue.
What restrictions are you willing to live with under a Bloomberg administration?
@Viv I lived in NYC under his administration for 12 years and it was fine. Stop and Frisk was a mistake, otherwise, perfection. So yes, I would like to under his administration.
2
Who'd do better against trump?
Bloomberg.
2
@DesertFlowerLV
Vice president Sanders sounds good to me.
Isn’t a pundit who is continuously surprised by voters an oxymoron? Perhaps it is time for pundits to follow Pete and Amy and get out of the way in the interest of the country......
3
When did Biden ever put party over self? If he had, he wouldn't even be running. When will old white men finally realize that women and young people are also capable of leading, and that if they really mean what they say, then they need to step aside.
5
Hillary Clinton lost to Donald Trump in 2016. Does anyone think Biden is a better candidate?
Donald Trump is going to carve Biden to pieces.
If you like watching horror movies vote for Joe Biden.
9
Video media online like Tik Tok makes Biden’s mental lapses look terrible as did his 150 million killed by guns since 2007...in the tv debate. I can’t imagine him flourishing too long in this race.
6
Don't forget Elizabeth!!! This paper is so frustrating. Making news rather than talking about news. You continually shape the conversation. You helped get Trump elected last time around by giving him so much air time....and you are ignoring Warren at a crucial moment.
So discouraged with this paper. and it's writers (right and so-called left)
3
Note to Democrats in their seventies running for president: give us your VP choice, the presumed 2024 candidate. We'll vote for you now to get your ticket's better, younger person for 2024.
1
3 old white men who are very close to 80 years old and clearly with quite a few health issues. How I long for somebody younger. Think of how spruce, spry, and spirited Elizabeth Warren seems in comparison with the 3 B's.
I, too, am old and certainly do not have the stamina to bring out the pom-poms and do the cross-country sprint that national politics involve. Political egos today seem to have been suffused and puffed up with viagra.
I honestly don't understand this column. We know from multiple polls that Sanders does best against Trump. It seems like the last persons to acknowledge this are journalists writing for mainstream newspapers or media pundits on big media outlets (aside strangely from Fox News).
7
I just retired, so I’ve just vested in one of the rare acts of “clean” democratic socialism the US ever allowed itself. I’m from Vermont so I have a much better optic on Senator Sanders than someone who is not from Vermont. He strikes me as the first leader in my lifetime who has grown from the ground up and not been imposed from the top down. His breaking of the power of big money and the investment class is breathtaking....just as watching the response of the media organs tied to that class takes my breath away. Not only has Sanders shown remarkable political brilliance in the way he has conducted his career, he has also shown great moral courage and intelligence. That is what the youth recognize. Why is this a story the NYT will never write?
315
@Jackson I'll take a Senator who "doesn't accomplish anything" by consistently voting morally against the immoral majority, e.g. against the Iraq war and for a higher minimum wage. The fact that the majority of Senators oppose Bernie because they don't care about humanity is hardly a knock on Bernie.
50
@Riverbow3
Agreed. Mr. Biden keeps saying that Mr. Sanders is dangerous. I believe that Mr. Biden's vote in support of the Iraq invasion has proven to be rather dangerous, not to say an indication of lack of courage to go against the grain and a willingness to believe in convenient lies.
Mr. Sanders, and five other senators, chose not to follow the majority down the rabbit hole. To me, that says volumes about his character.
Josefina Alvarez
Santa Fe, New Mexico
41
@Jackson
Can you name one positive legislative accomplishment of Biden's?
Draconian bankruptcy laws and racist law enforcement policies are accomplishments? Ensuring Clarence Thomas gets on the Supreme Court is an accomplishment?
Biden's been running for President since 1988. He failed to gain traction even in the days where there was no Trump-like figures. But he's going to make it now? Please.
He won no state primary ever, except for SC recently, and even then he couldn't pull off a majority. Had Clyburn not rallied the good ol' boys in SC to fall in line at the last moment, the polls would have been right at Bernie would have won.
10
All the pundocracy has to wait until today is over and then we'll all have a clearer picture of where the Dems are going. At 70, and as a life-long liberal who has voted in every election – local, state or national – I don't have much enthusiasm for any of the remaining candidates. Thinking it over, I realize I have been depressed by the relentless but shallow press dissection of the candidates and by the equally relentless focus on the horse race. But Biden's SC win gives me a flicker of hope that decency and common sense might yet prevail as almost half of the voters went for Biden and the pundits be damned. In their collective wisdom the voters may well understand more than all the pundits. It's like the story of guessing the number of marbles in a big glass jar. One person will likely be way off, but if 1000 people do so and the numbers are averaged, the answer will be much closer to the truth.
1
Biden can beat Trump if Bernie supporters vote for him. Bernie can beat Trump if Biden supporters vote for him. But therein lies the problem...
4
The establishment is ganging up against Bernie Sanders. Biden is just another run of the mill candidate, should he win nothing will change at all. The real damage from years of Republican neo-liberal and neo-con policies have done will show up in years to come. All Biden has to offer is to claim he can beat Trump, a characterless president his nation has never seen before. The Democrats lost against him because they had nothing to offer, they never really mounted a real opposition to the super conservative Republicans for fear to lose a few votes and even more so to lose the big donors.
6
Neither could do better against Trump as long as Bernie keeps shoving his crazy ideas with the help of his fanatics and Biden keeps making daily gaffes making more and more people wonder whether by election time he would be calling his wife Hill instead of Jill. Competition with a "stable genius" could be tough.
3
Bernie cost us the last election and he's going to do it again. very sad.
3
I think the only legislation that Bernie Sanders has ever led, sponsored and passed was a bill to change the name of a post office in Vermont. Seriously, there is nothing but talk, talk, talk, and angry righteous talk at that. The man has strong convictions but he can't get anything done. Bloomberg is a privileged wolf in sheep's clothing. He will co-opt the democrats the same way Trump co-opted the republicans. I'm so not enamored with Biden, but I fear he is the only one at this point in the game that is not tragically flawed and has a chance at beating the Orange Ape.
1
Yet, we don't ask who would be better for the country.
The question belies delusion and a fundamental misunderstanding of what we're looking at here.
No one can beat Trump, because his gang is better at cheating, having already stolen one election and legalized the stealing of the next one. Their crimes were certified as little more than poor taste by the senate and chief justice. Who disputes that they will steal the presidency in 2020? Who will stop them? The voters?!
Trump is now president for life. But today is the Dems' chance to retain some relevance to the resistance in the years to come, by nominating the choice of the people.
They won't, though. Sanders represents an unshakeable set of ethics and a commitment to empowering ordinary people, anathema to the hacks, undercover Republicans (Mike Bloomber, everybody!) corporate stooges and oligarchs that have a deathgrip on the party's throat. When they cheat him out of the nomination at the convention, permanently losing at a minimum 20% of the party to protest abstentions, they will be finished as a force in American politics.
As usual, they'll retain their phony baloney jobs while the rest of us endure the indignities of kleptocratic fascism.
5
Honestly, from my outside view, I guess that Biden as a candidate will be torn in a mudslinging. He has been in the center of the unsuccessful impeachment. He will be drowned in fake news and lies. And the Trumpers will not ask for truth since impeachment declared Trump innocent. Instead of talking about visions, Biden will have to defend over and over again what his son was doing in Ukraine, defend his salary and defend his honor. I sincerely hope that DT will be relocated from the white house for the WORLD's sake. But I fear that Biden won't make it.
2
"Gail: And then, when all is done, if Bernie still gets the nomination I will cheer as hard as I humanly can for him to become the next president. Sorry, Bret.
Bret: On that we won’t agree."
Why? Because Bret puts his country (Israel) over the well-being of the American people. He would even accept 4 more years of Trump to protect the ongoing corrupt, immoral, and illegal activities of a foreign nation.
5
I can’t vote for Biden. He sided w the banks and W on bankruptcy reform. He also voted for the Iraq War and God knows what else. I am sure I’m far from the only one who feels this way. Not everyone will “vote blue no matter who.” This will have a negative effect on Biden’s electability. The corporate Democratic elite should give some thought to the electability of a man of the people.
4
@Anonymous
So you want four more years of Trump.
Who would do better against Trump? Mmmmm, the one the Russians don't want to run against him?
1
Yes 14 States. Two political philosophies But there’s a dead serious question beneath it all....
Which of the 14 States will Biden win today?
California? No.
Texas? No.
Alabama? maybe
I would suggest Biden supporters moderate their overly optimistic expectations.
They may be in for big letdown.
Just sayin'...I could be wrong.
2
Gail: It’s very strange to be living in a time when being attacked personally by the president of the United States gets you a day full of congratulations.
More evidence of Trump’s pervasive influence: whether they are aware of it or not, Bret and Gail are playing Trump’s game.
The question is not, is it a game? The question is, who sets the rules? Right now, Trump is setting the rules even for NYT’s columnists.
3
This is about beating Trump in the election and at least maintaining down ballot Democrats.
Socialism is Sanders weakness. Biden's weakness is Ukraine and his son. Trump will exploit both big time.
Bloomberg's weakness is NDAs and treatment of minorities.
Trump is worse on both counts. So he can't use it against Bloomberg.
All things considered, I think Bloomberg has the best chance to accomplish what Democrats are trying to do.
2
I believe the Democrats are making a big mistake by seemingly appointing Biden as the alternative to Sanders. Why not let the primary voters cast their votes, and then choose the candidates at the convention?
This is Biden's third try at running for President. Is the logic that he can win South Carolina and Pennsylvania, then he can beat Donald Trump?
As with "Hillary's emails", Biden, Sanders, and Bloomberg give Trump easy targets for the catch phrases that will energize his base.
Biden: Sleepy Joe, the father of Hunter Biden
Sanders: the Socialist who will destroy America
Bloomberg: mini Mike with the NDAs [ignoring the fact that Trump voters don't care about Trump's behavior towards women, of course]
I planned to vote for Klobuchar, given the chance.
It will be really interesting to see how many early voters cast their ballots for Klobuchar or Butigieg.
It’s a real shame and a testament to his outsized ego that Bloomberg wasn’t on the stage last night with the other moderates endorsing Biden. He could now be a spoiler and, how ironic would it be if the very causes he supports are thwarted because of him staying in the race.
Really? Bloomberg is a sure loser? There is only one party, the Money Party, and it lives by the Golden Rule: he who has the most gold makes the rules.
1
Biden remains a truly terrible candidate, as the fat cats who own and operate the Democratic Party well know. But they would rather protect their wallets by electing Trump than pay up for the greater good after electing Bernie. The whole campaign before SC was not an illusion: Biden remains the hapless, sleepy, vaguely senile, malaprop-king candidate he's always been. And Trump will chop him into mincemeat in the debates. It will be so ugly it will be like a bully in WWE actually beating an opponent to a pulp before our eyes in real time. Too ugly to watch after a few minutes. Above all, despite the nonsense that Biden is the strongest candidate to win back the Rust Belt, he obviously is not. This election, just like Hillary's debacle for the billionaires in 2016. will entirely turn on which candidate wins the hearts and minds of the Rust Belt working class. It will absolutely not turn on who appeals most to Republican suburban women, because the working class overwhelmingly outnumbers them. Bernie crushed Trump in the 2016 Rust Belt exit polls, and would have won the election going away, had the Democratic Establishment not hired black preachers in the South to keep the party safely right, the same way the Kochs and the rest have always hired Evangelical white preachers to con their flocks into voting to make themselves poorer and the rich richer. There's a reason Bernie led Trump more than Hillary did in the polls throughout 2016 and has led him for the past year too.
3
Bret, no one could be worse than Trump. Please vote for the Democratic nominee, whomever he may be. Never Trump again.
2
From what I've seen over the past couple of months the electorate breaks down into two categories: voters who are afraid and voters who are angry. This is what's driving people more that policies or ideologies overall.
If you're a fear voter, you're going to the "moderate" candidates (who are actually pretty progressive). Joe is a good fit for this voter, because he's familiar, predictable, even if he's predictably weird (that Mandela story, geez)
If you're an anger voter, you're going to the "socialists" (who actually just want the government to create effective social policies, not take down capitalism) Bernie speaks to these voters brilliantly.
I don't really see where Warren and Bloomberg fit into the electorate at large. Warren could have had the anger vote, but she bungled it with her unity pitch. I'm not sure what Bloomberg is doing anymore. His whole I'm a rich manager/business guy pitch doesn't differentiate him enough from Trump. Also the sexism stuff is a big deal. Don't we remember when Trump brought Paula Jones to a debate? It seemed ridiculous to liberals, but those tactics helped a lot of suburban whites justify voting for Trump despite his gross behavior because the Clintons were "just as bad"
3
Hey. Tartan ties are like three-button suits and wing-tipped shoes. They are timeless.
1
Now that you mention it I am sure Trump will blame the coronavirus on Mexicans and their beer, but perhaps drinking a lot of beer will help us ignore the endless hype and noise around this endless campaign with an epidemic tacked on top. But I am so glad and impressed that Gail can rattle off the dates of the Pyrric War. Trump complaining about anything said by Gail Collins is like a six year old complaining about Einstein's intelligence. Well that might be a little hyperbolic.
2
@just Robert my husband was on a plane from Florida a few days ago. A passenger in a MAGA hat was talking about how the coronavirus is being brought in by illegal immigrants coming over the border and the fake news media isn't reporting it because they're in league with the democrats.
Terrible, but not surprising, that you would get the question wrong. Trump is (even if the left is to be believed) simply a holdover from 50 years ago when men were more Neanderthal than metrosexual. But Bernie is Joe Stalin, Mao and Castro all wrapped up in what the left sees as an irascible but harmless, old uncle. Try to tell those who escaped from Russia and Communist China and Cuba that he is harmless. Bernie is the beginning of the end—the fall starts when the people clamor for what government can give them and they completely pervert JFK’s words that we are to ask what we can do for this country. So the question is not about Trump, the question is what happened to the Democrat party?
3
It is clear the DNC/Democratic establishment will do everything possible to block a Sanders nomination. Virtually all of the candidates dropping out of the race- Amy Klobuchar, Pete Buttigieg, Beto O’Rourke and other members of the Democratic establishment- Harry Reid, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Susan Rice and Tim Kaine have endorsed Biden. What have Democrats done since their 2016 electoral debacle? They spent 2 years on ‘Russiagate’, a year + on ‘Ukrainegate’ as a basis for impeaching the POTUS, and failed. Barely a week following the failed impeachment vote in the Senate, the American public was treated to the spectacle of Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff joining Mark Esper and Mike Pompeo bullying and threatening China at the Munich Security Conference. With the exception of Bernie Sanders, Democrats have conspicuously avoided addressing issues that directly affect working people. These include a fairer tax structure where the wealthy pay the same percentage of as working people on ALL of their income, more jobs paying a livable wage, cheaper and far better public transportation, affordable healthcare, childcare, housing, education and student debt. A ‘brokered convention’ in Milwaukee this July will likely destroy the Democratic Party. As a life-long Dem, I am underwhelmed.
See- Bloomberg quietly plotting brokered convention strategy By David Siders 02/20/2020; Link:
www.politico.com/news/2020/02/20/bloomberg-brokered-convention-strategy-116407
2
This is for Gail and Brett. Does it seem like the whole Democrat universe is circling the bowl?
1. Now, Corona virus is supposed to be Trump's Katrina. Except, everyone dying, all 6, so far, are elderly with underlying health conditions. The most endangered people are already in the medical system. The pandemic will go on, but, the over reaction is about over.
2. Amy and Mayor Pete drop out the race, the day before Super Tuesday. Not odd? If they dropped out the day after, it would be normal. Will anyone ask these two, was there a threat, a promise or an expectation to do this, the day before your supporters had a chance to vote for you? Will Democrat voters call to end early voting.
3. Bernie. Anything to stop Bernie is fair. Nothing is off the table. So, next time around, will Democrats demand, anyone running for the Democrat nomination be a registered Democrat. The amount of subterfuge to stop Bernie is astounding. Yet, the DNC elite don't seem to have a plan on what to do with Bernie's followers. "Anyone to beat Trump", really means anyone but Bernie.
2
Whoever the democrats nominate will face Trump disinformation. Democrats want Trump gone, and if they don’t vote for their favorite candidate, Trump is not gone. Voters will remember 2016 and vote. If they do the same thing as they did in 2016 and are sore losers because their favorite candidate did not get the Democratic nomination, withhold their vote and just stay home, we deserve to have Trump again.
Beneath the “electability,” or “who-would-do-better-against-Trump” camouflage lies the darker truth, which is the real question: Who is more like Trump? The so-called moderate or establishment wing of the Democratic Party, which represents the corporate, business-as-usual “special” interests, offers us little more than Trump lite, Trump without the bathroom humor and manners. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are all that stand between the Democratic Party and Gore Vidal’s assertion that America has one party—with two right wings. Biden, and his last-minute, hail-Mary, endorsers are attempting to do to Sanders what Hillary did to him in 2016—and we all know how that turned out. The “electability” fallacy is demonstrated by the very fact that it is precisely that very “electability” that got us Trump in the first place.
2
Hate to write this but both of you sound like Republicans -- what matters is who can win with no discussion as to who would best serve the country and make a better president. As Bernie has shown no ability to lead a nation, beyond a phantom youth wave that even if it happens is not a base for governing, that choice is clear.
1
How many Bernie style candidates won races that flipped the house? It's going to be real quiet at Bernie headquarters on the day after the election.
1
I know lots of people who are only voting today because they are casting a ballot for Bernie Sanders; because "he's the only candidate I've ever been stoked about." If the Dems ram another centrist at us, you'll see a spectacular loss worse than Hillary. Fact. It's almost like the Media and Dem Establishment fights harder against a little Social Democracy than it does against Trump's Fascism... hmm.
4
I am so tired of angry people. Especially angry old white guys. Anger has become a justification for all sorts of bad behavior. But anger is very useful to politicians...works like a charm to get votes. In this respect I think a Sanders presidency will look a lot like a Trump presidency except that I will be angry with the president instead of at the president. Is that an improvemen? Let's all stop being dupes and chill so we can actually solve some problems.
1
Gail says something that is supported by no evidence whatsoever--that Biden would be better able to beat Trump--and Bret says nothing to contradict her. Head-to-head polls in swing states have repeatedly shown Sanders doing as well or better than Biden against Trump. Why is the New York Times and other mainstream persistently promulgating the "Biden electability" myth?
1
bernie has never gotten anything done, never created a job and never ran a business. a career politician and a communist. the president should not even have to debate him.capitalism ahas raised the standard of living for more people than any other system ever.end of story. is it perfect? of course not. but there is no substitute for pulling yourself up via hard work and being smart.government cannot do it. as for old man joe, its time to wake up and run for president!170 million killed by guns, thats half the population,say goodbye joe, neither will beat trump, because the public is not as dumb as politicians think...
1
Focus on "Who can beat Trump?" is Trumps strategy.
Doing so ensures he will win again. The election is not about Trump, it is about us! Don't let yourself be tricked into constant focus on him like he did in 2016.
The way US elections work is that you choose the candidate who has the ideas and plans and record of honest public service that you like. (Joe Biden's fake common man image makes his "service" dishonest.) At the end of that process of whittling down the crowd, that is the candidate most likely to win period.
The only Improvement on that might be a national primary on one day with ranked choice to stop the gaming of the system by so many right wingers in the DEM.
The Republican-Lite Pelosi Schumer Biden Democratic Party is terrified as never before at the prospect of the exposure of who it is they really serve, such being corporate America, especially Big Insurance and Big Pharma.
Bernie will sweep the nation becoming the nominee, because he is an honest to goodness representative of all of the people; he is our modern-day FDR, unapologetic, ready, willing and able to lead our Democratic Republic into a sustainable future with real opportunity for all.
Contrary to the Republican-Lite Pelosi Schumer Biden plans, the people now know that Medicare for All is not only possible, but will result in hundreds of billions of dollars saved over our current corporate for-profit system, which on its own has all but beggared the poor and the middle-class, driving them to near penury and economic slavery.
See Lancet excerpt and link - "By contrast, a universal system, such as that proposed in the Medicare for All Act, has the potential to transform the availability and efficiency of American health-care services. Taking into account both the costs of coverage expansion and the savings that would be achieved through the Medicare for All Act, we calculate that a single-payer, universal health-care system is likely to lead to a 13% savings in national health-care expenditure, equivalent to more than US$450 billion annually (based on the value of the US$ in 2017)."
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(19)33019-3/fulltext
1
I'm not counting Bloomberg out yet. He's my choice now that Klobuchar is out. If anyone thinks the Ukraine corruption charges are going to go away (I know they're false - just facing the Trumpian "strategy" facts), they're crazy. If Biden is the moderate choice and nominee, it's going to be ongoing Senate "investigation" slaughter. Now that we're down to three old white guys, Bloomberg is the best choice. If you're interested in substance and who can actually win, of course.
2
I'm guessing I should vote for Warren today because that's who the NYT's Editorial Board told me on January 19, 2020 was the way to go. As they wrote, "Elizabeth Warren has emerged as a standard-bearer for the Democratic left." Am left wondering though what the NYT's Editorial Board wants me to do now.
1
In life everything has rhythm. Waves have rhythm, breathing has rhythm, birds have rhythm. Trump is like a Yoko Ono song nonstop. Please change the channel to something more modern and hip--Bernie Sanders Please!
Biden can't remember if he is talking to Chuck or Chris Wallace. He can't remember if he is in Vermont or New Hampshire. He can't even remember the foundation of our democracy:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." - Thomas Jefferson
The last time you guys put Biden into the White House, you ended up losing the House, the Senate, federal judges, the Supreme Court and then the Oval Office. And you want to bet on that again? Well, I'm sure Trump can build you a casino. But you will lose again simply by Trump mentioning that Obama/Biden campaigned on ending the war in Afghanistan but never got around to it. Then, he will mention his tentative deal with the Taliban. And then he will add Hunter Biden to the mix and Joe will just stare into the headlights talking about a pushup contest.
3
I'm thinking Biden/Warren is the winning ticket. (Note: I will be voting for the Democratic nominee, period.)
For those who have doubts about Biden's policy positions, please take at least half an hour to read about them on his website: https://joebiden.com/joes-vision/ It's true that Sanders supporters will find points of disagreement, but the points of agreement are plenty.
2
The "dead serious" issue for Bret Stephens is how Bernie Sanders will affect American foreign policy towards Israel. Sanders is seen as a threat because he advocates respect for human rights and international law.
1
Bret, your constant complaining about how you can’t vote for Sanders is so far past old. If he is the nominee running against Trump and you won’t vote for him (and won’t vocally support him in your writing), then you will have to start calling yourself a Trump supporter.
2
Although never Bernie pundits like to claim that Bernie supporters will sit out if Bernie is not the nominee, I find that hard to believe. Unless the Democratic elite blatantly install “their” preferred candidate.
Although the David Brooks & Bret Stephens cabal prefer a “former” Republican like Bloomberg, from my 71 yo white suburban voter perspective that would destroy any semblance of a Democratic Party.
I don’t believe a contested convention is the worst of all worlds, assuming all candidates & their supporters are acknowledged and a strong unified party and candidate results.
1
I'm really tired of seeing Elizabeth Warren written out of this race. Pundits are treating her exit like a foregone conclusion when Pete and Amy voters could easily break her way. The erasing of the only female candidate still fighting when important issues like abortion rights, universal childcare, and equal pay are on the table is shameful.
277
@Deanna The idea that a man can't fight for women's rights or that being a woman should get my vote when they are not the strongest candidate to oppose military adventurism and the military industrial complex is exactly what led to H. Clinton getting the nomination. And she lost big.
11
@Deanna I wholeheartedly agree, and not just because she's "the only female candidate still fighting," but because she is also the most capable leader remaining, and because she's a great and appealing communicator, and neither peevish like Bloomberg, crotchety like Sanders, nor dementing like Biden, she's by far the most sensible choice in terms of electability. It is demoralizing to live in a world where the savior arrives but even the Times, which endorsed her, can't force itself to remind the world of how badly she's needed.
46
@Deanna I wholeheartedly agree, and not just because she's "the only female candidate still fighting," but because she is also the most capable leader remaining, and because she's a great and appealing communicator, and neither peevish like Bloomberg, crotchety like Sanders, nor dementing like Biden, she's by far the most sensible choice in terms of electability. It is demoralizing to live in a world where the savior arrives but even the Times, which endorsed her, can't force itself to remind the world of how badly she's needed.
3
they will both lose
Joe will lose because he's barely able to fumble out a coherent sentence, let alone a vision for this country. this very paper believes he will bring "calm" showing just how incredibly out of touch they were throughout the Obama administration which papers like this seem to remember very differently than they actually were. all the ink spilled about the "divisiveness that trump caused". its little wonder that elite journalism dynasties like this one were so slow to pick up on the birthers, gamergate and Alex Jones, etc. Obama's entire tenure was marked by the extreme radicalization of the right but they didn't ever cover that, they had too many journalists on the ground covering "crises" like students protesting ban mis for being racist
Bernie will lose because the bourgeoisie and the journalism that serves them (like this paper) would gladly destroy him to preserve the economy that only works for them. the only problem they have with trump is that he's rude, otherwise they can certainly live with him. the fact that most of these papers seem to have forgotten about child separation policies or the death count in Puerto rico after Maria and indeed coverage of anything other than beltway feuding is proof. they have bent double for years in the interest of "objectivity" in order to give trump credit for the "good" economy which is continuing to stratify.
we do not have a democracy we live in a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie and this paper only serves it
4
There are only two candidates left who are not running as a personality cult - Joe and Senator Warren. Which of these is more electable? That is pretty easy to answer.
Replacing Trump with a different cult may even be worse than re-electing Trump. If both parties demonstrate they are playing the same game, where will voters turn? Probably to an independent run by Bezos or Zuckerberg or similar, but almost certainly the answer is "nowhere good".
Thought-provoking discussion. One point though- Bret, when you say "Steyer’s epic loss in South Carolina, the state he tried to buy, was one of the more satisfying moments in this race."
But then you are (or were) an ardent supporter of Bloomberg, who is trying to buy, not just one state, but the entire presidency.
6
Too bad a so-called 'conservative' like myself couldn't have joined this conversation. If I had, I would have shared my own worries over Donald Trump---you see, not everybody on my side of the aisle thinks he's the be all-end all savior of America.
I would also add my honest appraisal that---no matter what his policies---Mr. Trump is, well, not the most articulate tongue on the stump. Coupled with his penchant for self-aggrandizement, Mr. Trump's Queens-born pugilistic speaking style is almost enough to make me vote for the opposition just so I don't have to listen to his orations for another four years. And I'm a supporter. One only imagines how you guys feel.
For what it's worth, I apologize on behalf of all of us. Remember: There are those on this side of the aisle that dislike Trump for many of the same reasons you Dems do, most of them personality-oriented.
As you know, not all of us on the Right are automatically programmed-in to vote for Trump on November 3---all the more reason to choose your Democratic nominee...very, very carefully.
4
I'm tired of the hand wringing over Bernie's goals, and how we will pay for them
Anyone remember how the media pressed Trump and Republicans for details?
(Mexico paying for that wall? Obamacare overturned day one? Replaced with what? Tax cuts and deficit?)
What I'd like to see is a Democrat start negotiations from a progressive standpoint for a change
I'm sick of Democrats compromising before the negotiations begin
Instead of a single payer, or a public option, the Dems started healthcare planning by picking a moderate Republican plan, hoping to attract a few Republican votes
Remember how that worked out?
Not a single vote, the GOP just moved the goal further right, and called Romney's plan a socialist government takeover. Absurd to the point they nominated Romney to run, mostly against his own healthcare plan.
No thanks-
I'll start with Bernie's plans when the next round of negotiations begin
11
An excellent campaign staff and management will be needed for November. So far Sander's organization and fund raising have been running rings around Biden's.
Philosophies are all well and good, but there is more to electability than philosophy and likeability.
6
I'm curious what Bret Stephens, professional political pundit will do if Bernie is the candidate- will he join the 100 million other eligible voters who don't vote, or will he cast his ballot, likely for the second time, for Trump, who he has been castigating for the last 4 years? What a moral high ground.
7
I confidently cast my primary vote for Elizabeth Warren, but will happily vote for Bernie Sanders (or Joe Biden) in November if he is selected as the Democratic nominee.
Also, I hope the Democratic nominee will look to many of the former and current candidates to fill key positions in a new government.
7
I would've preferred either Buttigieg, Klobuchar or Warren, to either Sanders or Biden, but come Nov. I will choose the Democratic candidate no matter what. Whether the nominee is Bernie or Joe, he should select a young, capable VP ( Amy, Pete, Booker or Abrams would all be great choices) and then retire after one term. I am a youngish Baby Boomer and I know It's time to turn things over to a new generation. Don"t waste all of the talent and passion we've seen over the past few months . And make sure Warren is part of the cabinet in some capacity. Her brilliance and focus will be sorely needed.
7
In 2004 we were told we needed a strong, moderate democrat to defeat Bush. Question: Who here remembers the administration of President Kerry?
in 2016 we were told we needed a strong, moderate democrat. Clinton was favored over Sanders. That is why we are currently voting to renominate the first woman president for her second term.
Not.
So the question on this 2020 Super Tuesday is this: will we get fooled again?
5
It is a sad day in the USA when advocating for basic human rights is seen as being too far left for American voters.
19
Biden would be little better than Trump. He's part of the crowd that brought us Clarence Thomas, deregulation of the financial markets, the Iraq War, the crash of 2008, and finally Trump.
9
Getting a little tired of hearing remarks about Bernie & dictators and communists.
Look what we have in the White House right now. Trump seems to be in love with almost every dictator on the planet, and is trying very hard to be one himself. Bernie I would say has more in common with FDR & LBJ trying to make this country a better place for all Americans. What Bernie is trying to do is bring this country into the 21st century where the rest of all the other industrialized countries already are with universal healthcare and an education system that doesn't leave anyone out and truly prepares them for a successful life, not just a job at Walmart.
Would love to see Elizabeth Warren debate Pence as vice presidential candidates. She would mop up the floor with him.
12
Sanders should be MADE to swear he will support the Democratic nominee this time, unlike last time when his petulance to losing to Clinton put Trump in the White House.
I say MADE in capital letters because we know he would never do it on his own.
7
Bye, bye Bernie, Don’t slam the door on the way out. Why don’t Americans see the pointlessness of primaries? In most other countries the parties work this out. Is America more democratic? Of course not - could you make it? No - you don’t have millions behind you. In other countries, if you have party endorsement, you don’t have to put in cash, and party advertising is limited by legislation. This system is anti- democratic.
5
I like the last line - let it go back to the voters. I want to see what Super Tuesday brings. And the Democratic Party should stop its hand-wringing over Bernie and talking about moderate voters and electability, and put their support behind, well, democracy - the majority choice. If Bernie's the choice of the majority, I will gladly go with Bernie, even though I am rooting for Warren now. If Biden's the choice, I will regret the lack of transformative thinking, grumble about all the times he showed lack of backbone or leadership (you know the list), hope fervently that he will choose a good running mate, and then, support this choice against Trump, no matter what!
3
It's a minor point, but how naive do you have to be to believe that Pete and Amy "put party over self" in dropping out? It's pretty clear they were pressured by donors, as well as others in the Dem Establishment, and were alomost certainly offered positions in a potential Biden Administration. Wow, what a sacrifice...
259
@David
When people do everything they can, it should be acknowledged even if "everything" is not all that much. It is not easy to work on something for a year or more and give up the fame that goes with it.
If Republicans did this four years ago, we may have had a somewhat competent government the past four years. They could not overcome their ego-driven desire for attention.
37
@David The two things are not contingent upon each other and therefore can both be true at the same time. To imply the relationship is instead cause and effect is to posit a relationship that is not established. You do not provide any evidence so I am afraid your only real link is cynicism.
30
@David
Annnnndddd… Amy didn't want the embarrassment of losing her own state.
6
Sanders has been consistent in his whole life. Sanders also shows the energy more than Biden. If Sanders chooses a woman as VP (Amy) I will go for it. Mr. Trump may ridicule him on the woman choice but will have difficulty to go very far. On socialism there may be many ways public will support Sanders. If Biden chooses an african-american it will add a baggage along with Ukraine baggage in the eye of Mr. Trump. He can ridicule Mr. Biden in many ways - women, blackness, corruptions, etc., etc.
3
Instead of asking which candidate would do better against Trump, how about asking which of the two candidates would be better for our nation as our president?
7
I wish Bret would do the right thing -- like Mayor Pete's very considerate party-above-self yield to our better angels -- and finally put the Gray Lady above BRET's "perpetual barrel over Niagara Falls," not Bernie's. Otherwise, my canceled subscription will never see the day of being delivered by surgically-masked St Bernard dogs.
1
I can't believe many of the comments here. How can any non-Trump cult voter say that they won't support the eventual Democratic nominee? Do these people really think that a second Trump term is something the nation can recover from?
Maybe they should take a good look at Russia and Turkey if they want to see where Trump and his Republicans are taking this country. Don't think it can't happen here.
Democratic voters will get 75% of what they want no matter what Democrats runs. Wake up already. Trump and his Republicans will make sure you get ZERO percent of what you want.
7
Bloomberg or Bernie or Biden?
The infighting will certainly widen.
Whatever the schtick,
Whomever we pick,
Make sure it's a blue wave we're ridin'!
13
Bernie isn’t my guy. But he’s honest and decent and is at least doing what he thinks is in the best interest of the country. Bernie has my vote if it comes down to it. Anyone who thinks Bernie is just as bad as Trump really isn’t paying attention.
16
CNN has reported how the Tea Party has formed "Operations Chaos" to encourage Republicans to go to Primaries to vote for … Bernie Sanders.
This means: Biden won South Caroline despite all the over-voting by the Right wing to try to get Sanders nominated.
Pay attention Democrats. Republicans KNOW they can beat Sanders:
#1 All Trump has to do is advertise how Bernie's program will require Middle Class taxes to go up substantially too (same as what we see in Europe)
#2 Then start a SCARE tactic the Socialists are coming to destroy America, to get their base out to vote in droves. ..
Trump then wins in a landslide.
5
@Pat
Sanders is on record too many times promoting socialism. Don't blame his opponents for scaring voters away.
1
@Pat If people are that stupid we deserve Trump II.
1
The way establishment Dems and corporate media have treated Bernie is shameful. If Bernie is not the nominee i simply wont vote. This is a repeat of 2016 when Hillary was shoved down our throats. We can expect similar results.
4
@Angry I agree with your first sentence, but think about it, please. Not voting for the Democratic nominee is another vote in favour of Trump. Trump has already done so much long-lasting damage in term 1 - stacking federal courts, dismantling environmental protections, the list goes on. Is that really worth your feelings of pique?
6
@Angry
So if you can't get Bernie you'll take Trump? I'm trying to get my head around that.
@Angry Keep being Angry, and we'll wind up with Trump for 4 more years. Stop whining about 2016 already. Yes, the DNC put their thumb on the scale in support of Clinton (the nerve of them, showing a preference for a Democrat over a lifelong 'Independent'), but do Bernie Bros honestly believe that the DNC's thumb is what gave Clinton 4M more votes than Sanders in the 2016 primaries?
1
Coronavirus is the great equalizer. The economy, healthcare, health costs, employment, and protection are all under threat. Trump can no longer hide his mismanagement. The important thing is that the Dems don't self destruct in tribal wars.
5
Gail: And then, when all is done, if Bernie still gets the nomination I will cheer as hard as I humanly can for him to become the next president. Sorry, Bret.
Bret: On that we won’t agree.
And, thus, with his five-word admission that he’d rather have Trump in the White House than Bernie, my years-long love-hate relationship with Bret ends.
Four more years of Trump and the US—along with the rest of the world, if you give even an iota of thought to climate change—will be toast. Is that putting it too bluntly, Bret? Nice knowin’ ya!
4
@David Walker Why in heaven's name did Collins think she had to apologize to Stevens for saying that? Honestly, there was no need for apology, her comment makes perfect sense.
1
@David Walker That was a wow moment for me too! Push comes to shove Bret admits he would rather live in a world where Trump values run riot, than the world Bernie Sanders is urging us to create. Wow! And Gail, apologizing for seeing Bernie as the slightly lesser evil, she will hold her nose...etc. Wow. Bernie’s moral intelligence is probably the best of his political generation, and his courage is pretty high too. Thats why Buttigieg picked Bernie to be the subject of his award winning “profiles in courage essay” in the year 2000. Which is it? Does he have no legislative accomplishments or was he called the amendment king? If we bail out the bankers & Co for a trillion + and absolve them from criminal responsibility and don’t shame them even for their greed, can’t we do a similar deal with the trillion this generation of students owesowes at 8%...that is the kind of moral question Bernie is asking our society.
1
Credit to Warren for exposing Bloomberg as the terrible candidate that he is in those two debates. Voters still have Warren as an option.
7
@Ev I was disappointed that Elizabeth stooped to the level of attack on Bloomie. What I love about her is her ability to stay above partisan politics and focus on solving big problems.
1
Bernie is espousing policy that has worked in all the Nordic states for over 50 years. These governments are all true democracies (unlike ours) and they are all capitalist market economies. They are also the most educated,healthiest, and happiest people in the world. That could be us if you just don't buy in to the red baiting propaganda...most people don't anymore that's why Bernie's winning ....Bernie the real populist will beat the sham populist with the fake tan...
2
I will cast my vote in a few hours. As much as I complained that CA use to be among the last of Primary states, I wish that were true today. My head aches trying to decide whose name will be checked off on my ballot. My heart is with Elizabeth Warren, yet I do not envision her delegate count coming close to Sanders. Sanders? Of course I will support him if he is our nominee. And I’ll do it with pride knowing that he is a far, far better man than Trump. Trump is awful! Joe Biden? Yes, he will get my vote today. It’s about the moderates and Independents. It’s about the more conservative Midwest. It’s about holding on to Speaker Pelosi and her/our House. My heavens, it’s about the Supreme Court and my rights as a woman as well as the rights of those of a darker skin than mine, et al.
3
Since Truman and excepting Johnson who became president via after the death of Kennedy all three of the elected Democratic presidents were I their forties when elected. Now we have only septuagenarians to choose from. Think that's going to work?
I heard from a reliable source that Bernie is the only serious candidate to, like Trump in 2016, fail to outreach on a transition plan for running the federal government. I consider this to be an indicator of dangerous hubris and harbinger of incompetence, similar to Trump's mishandling of the Federal government.
In fact, establishment democrats have already conceded this election to Trump. They are now just trying to protect their downstream candidates.
5
“Emergencies like this one can’t be contained by emergency measures alone. They require credible, trustworthy, steady, knowledgeable leadership.”
Which is exactly why I voted this morning in a democratic presidential primary for the first time in my brought-up-in-a-conservative-Christian-home life. And I PROUDLY voted for Joe Biden.
Read this with dismay as I go out to vote for the BEST CANDIDATE in the race: Elizabeth Warren!
10
My dream, unlikely as it may be:
Facing a brokered convention, the Three B's agree to go to the bullpen for a fourth B: Sherrod Brown.
1
Congratulations to Gail. What is the opposite of the trite cliché "stone cold loser"? Would it be "garbage fire winner"?
All the televised and radio broadcasted, and printed news yesterday was about Biden. Who would even know Bernie was the frontrunner? This paper did cover Sanders—Leonhardt sent out a newsletter on how to beat him. How fair.
But your conversation makes a point about the passion and drive of Bernie's backers who want money out of politics, who want to put the brakes on corporate greed, domination, and pollution before we have no freedoms and no planet.
The DNC has to pay attention to progressives if they want to survive.
The DNC has never done more than simply dismiss Progressives, deride progressives, blame progressives. And they need to reach out. They have always needed to reach out rather then to push out as they have done until now. Disaster is in their hands.
3
Gail writes: "Mike Bloomberg, for all his executive talents, is not somebody you want to see on TV every night for the next five years." Personally I'd much rather see Mike than either Bernie or Donald. C'mon America, is this the best we can do?
6
Either candidate beats Trump badly. The difference is that Bernie has always fought for Average Americans while Joe has always been the same old Trojan Horse for the TBTF of Wall Street, most headquartered in his home state.
The Jim Crow racist "drug war" incarceration policies Joe championed put millions of African Americans behind bars. Unlike Bernie he voted yes on Iraq
Bernie is fighting to give the United States what every other industrialized, capitalist and socially responsible nation gives their citizens, excellent, equal and comprehensive medical care for every citizen, turning American into a powerhouse of Green Technology innovation to win the war against mass extinction, and pursuing economic balance, social, environmental, and every other form of justice. Bernie is honest. Not perfect. Honest, and the kind of person you'd like in your Kibutz because he fights for everyone in his society.
Joe fights for the big banks and Wal Street and the establishment. He takes his money from dark money super PACs like McConnel. In 2005 he passed a bill that has netted payday lenders, giant banks, credit companies trillions and which all but destroyed the right of average Americans to claim Chapter 7 bankruptcy accept under the most destitute turns while allowing big corporations to continue doing so. In 2008, after the same banks he represents crashed the markets, forced millions from their homes, lost the savings of millions, they were unable to claim chapter 7.
5
Choose Bernie,American people.I can only recommend.
Both will be 4 years President.
Pick Transformative Bernie.4 years are too long holding your breath to survive.
3
The horror of Sanders is the fantasy. Any policy he would pursue won't get past congress or the courts. A vote for fantasy is a wasted vote. You'll only get bitterness.
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“Change...I want change...we need change...we must have change...”. No, it’s Trump! In normal times, change would be an issue. These are not normal times. The next president will have to rebuild, renew, and restore and that will take years. And, unless McConnell and his cronies are sent packing, NOTHING will happen regardless of who wins in November. Biden or Sanders? I don’t care, either has my vote, but Biden will be the easier sell. The change I really want is infesting the White House!
Bret Stephens was on a roll with some classic lines. Mike Bloomberg would’ve been in much better shape if Bret had written his jokes.
So Joe Biden is on a roll. Bernie will probably do very well tonight, but not enough to bury Biden.
Mike Bloomberg will do okay—just well enough to think hard before leaving the race. If Mike was really about doing the right thing, he’ll follow the lead of Mayor Pete and throw his support (and money) to Joe Biden.
At some point, Bret needs to acknowledge that he’d vote for Bernie over Trump. Bernie is like having to eat your veggies. Trump is the Coronavirus that’s infected the Republicans.
And Bernie’s supporters need to be more like Gail. If Bernie isn’t the nominee, put your big boy pants on and vote for Joe. Lastly, long-standing fans of Joe—like me—need to vote for Bernie if he’s the nominee.
4
If Trump were smart (and that's a stretch, I know) he would ditch Pence and appoint Bernie as his running mate in 2020. They have more in common; they are both radical zealots who want to destroy the current system and install their own version of a warped Utopia. And, frankly, they deserve each other.
A Democrat since the Gingrich overreach of the late 90's, I will support with my time, treasure, and vote for whomever the Democrats nominate.
For certain, should Warren, Sanders or Biden show signs of illness or incompetence, Democrats, unlike the current Republicans in Congress, will take immediate action to rectify any lapse in leadership. And there would be no hint of unethical, immoral, criminal, or treasonous behavior for any Democratic president.
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The dead serious question is will either of them be alive in November? Both have lived longer than statistics say they should, and Bernie has had one heart attack we know of, and Joe is obviously struggling with dementia. Is this the best the Democrats can do? (And yes, I am one, and I am horrified.)
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@Annielew
Sanders and Biden have a greater chance of contracting the coronavirus because of their advanced age and health issues than they do of beating Trump.
1
@Annielew UH, Senator Warren is still in the race.
" It’s very strange to be living in a time when being attacked personally by the president of the United States gets you a day full of congratulations. "
That statement has to be the best description of the lunacy that we are living under baby trump.
Go on republicans, keep following him over the cliff.
1
why worry who will do best against trump? after all, the outcome may be baked in, gratis moscow, et al. and even if he is defeated at the ballot box, it may take a civil war to dislodge him from the white house.
best to vote one's conscience and let the chips fall as they may. thus i choose bloomberg.
3
Bret and Gail, wake up. The president you hate so much has had success. Two trade agreements, a fundamentally sound economy, reduced troop levels with a peace agreement in Afghanistan. A punch to Iran’s nose that has backed them up. Criminal justice reform with the First Step Act. Outside his crudeness, this has been the top presidency in our modern times.
4
Elephant in the room: COVID19. By the time the conventions are scheduled to take place in July and early August, American politics may look very different. It may be that there won't be a convention. The candidates would be selected by some other means. It depends on how many people become ill and how sick they get. It could all be overblown, but the "worst case" is not just fantasy. It depends on the actual fatality rate, as yet unknown.
And it's not only the electorate. If the candidates of both parties are males in their 70s, how will this change the campaigns? No more big rallies? Even before then, no more selfies? Worst case, no more candidates?
Trump supporters tend to be older voters. They will see friends and relatives very sick or dying. It's hard to spin death. Brown people may look like less of a threat than the virus. Competence may become fashionable among Republicans.
By the way, as a 77-year-old male, I have every reason to want COVID19 contained. I'm definitely not one of those "want millions to die" Democrats the Republicans have imagineered.
3
Trump is the establishment on steroids. Biden is the establishment on tranquillizers. Bernie Sanders is the establishment on honesty, compassion, and integrity.
5
Bloomberg. Biden and Sanders will lose against Trump.
3
It doesn't matter which one of these Dems will do better against Trump.
Neither one will win against Trump.
And the Dems know this.
4
Candidate Party Age
Sanders Socialist 78
Blooomburg Democrat 78
Biden Democrat 77
Weld Republican 74
Trump Republican 73
Warren Democrat 70
Gabbard Democrat 38
Of the seven, only Gabbard, who has no chance of being elected, is under age 70. No one seems to be talking about the elephant in the room. Age. The odds of even one of them surviving until January, 2029 are not good. The odds of all seven of them surviving are not good. When I use the word survive I mean being alive and outside of a rest home. BTW I'm 77 and have no problem in accepting the reality of old age. Why don't they?
3
@mikeyh
Think about what "the reality of old age" was when you were 38.
People still expected to die before 70. Now most who get to live healthy lives (that is not always an option in America) can expect to live past 80 and be vital the whole time. Are you able to do what these candidates do?
1
@mikeyh The cut-off for running for president should be 75. And there should be mandatory retirement at age 75 for the Supreme Court justices.
Considering Biden's history of odd misstatements and confusion about people and events I can't see how anyone could be confident in Biden's success against Trump in one on one debates. Despite Trump's being a lying dog-faced pony soldier, Donald would eat Biden's lunch.
1
Regarding corona as Trump's Katrina: I can definitely pricture him turning to Mike Pence and saying, "Way to go, Whitey."
As to the Dem primary, I was rooting for Klobuchar and still have a faint sliver of hope for Elizabeth Warren. Warren is the youngest, fittest, healthiest, and possibly smartest of the septuagenarians now in contention for the presidency. Based on the virus's demographics to date, she's also the one most likely to survive the year. I still agree with the Times' editorial endorsement of her, and I think she might be able to unify the Bidenistas and the Bernie Bros better than either of those teams on their own.
1
Lifelong actively-engaged Democrat of the Boomer generation here. I turned to Bernie because of his consistent and fearless position on Medicare for All, which is the only option on the table that will fix our mess of a health care system. In the process I gained a real disgust with lack of vision and leadership from within my party. Nancy, Hillary and Chuck are alienating a whole new generation of voters when they should be embracing them. Joe will fail to excite or interest them and he will lose. If 2016 dynamics are operative in 2020, the Democratic leadership has only themselves to blame. In the meantime, I'm 100% for Bernie.
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@CS and if Biden wins the nomination, and you stay home in November, you only have yourself (and fellow Bernie supporters) to thank for 4 more years of Trump.
I don't support Bernie, but I will vote for him if he wins the nomination. I hope you will do the same for Biden.
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@MAS Duh. I'm also a lifelong actively engaged "boomer" who will naturally vote for any Dem. I held my nose and voted for Hillary last time.
9
@CS
"Joe will fail to excite or interest them (a whole new generation of voters) and he will lose."
Got to protect your base first. Joe won nearly 2/3 of the African American vote in SC. That's not excitement?
12
I am tired of hearing all the pundits criticize Bloomberg for his debate performances! He is not a good debater but is tireless in his efforts through philanthropy to improve health care and education.He funded the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health!Being passionate about public health -that is something way more important than debate skills.Trump is all words but no skill or understanding about anything except his properties.Mike is a thinker and doer-short on words but long on policy and dedication to improving life for everyone.
607
@JANET MICHAEL I will vote for Bloomberg if he is the nominee, but he is far from my first choice. Even billionaire Tom Steyer put his money where his mouth is on many progressive issues including climate change. I'm not sure that Bloomberg leads with altruism . . . I believe Sanders and some others put country above vanity . . . but this is still rare in politics.
32
@JANET MICHAEL I entirely agree on Bloomberg's merits. But in a general election which may come down to who wins the debates, is Bloomberg a good enough debater to beat Trump? The evidence is not good.
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@JANET MICHAEL As a "doer," Mike's potential achievements in this environment encompass (1) handing the nomination to Sanders and (2) handing the Presidency to Trump.
10
Well, one thing we know for sure, elite Democrats constitute a sort of anti-brain trust. They managed to spend a billion dollars last time, and lose to a game-show host with a Twitter feed and no ground organization.
So, now the same brain trust wants everyone to march in lock step behind a man who is clearly deteriorating mentally and carrying tremendous political baggage (NAFTA, Iraq, Student Loans).
What could possibly go wrong?
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@brixton77 "Elite democrats" aka Democrats, you mean? Let Bernie go form his own party to pursue his Pied Piper fantasies, most lifelong democrats want someone who can work with others to achieve actual results.
11
@Todd
I don't know your age, but you sound young. At one time in this country, the Democratic Party was not elite. It was much more diverse and populist, and it gathered the votes of everyone who wasn't rich (those guys went GOP).
The Democratic Party has changed so much in my lifetime that it is no longer recognizable to me. I've voted Democratic every race since 1971 aside from one gubernatorial race. In that case, the GOP ran a moderate incumbent who was an academic by profession, and his Democratic opponent made a racial slur. (Callout to former N.C. Gov. Jim Martin.)
You say Sanders should form his own party. Be very careful what you wish for. Unless the election is taken by a progressive, I will leave my lifelong party in 2021. And I would very much like to be an early member of a party that is not elite and that understands the strength of "we" rather than "me, me, me." But I seriously doubt that you will like watching that exodus or its effects on your favored party.
11
@Todd
Watch what you wish for. Young people may just do that. The Democratic old folks need to understand that they can't win on their own. They need to reach out to progressive young people and offer them something to attract their votes, not simply reject them as silly and radical.
5
The sudden simultaneous quitting by 3 candidates a wider explanation . Amy and Pete in particular . Did they jump? Were they pushed?
2016 Democratic maneuver to choose Hillary comes to mind. The rallying around one candidate ( gaffe -rich Biden ) so early in the process smell bad . MSNBC is doing its best to remain the voice of the establishment .
Meanwhile Robert Menendez is trying to do an end run around future Democratic president’s most likely attempt to revert to JCOPA but we hear nothing from media against this warmongering bipartisan effort mounted with Trump ally Lindsey Graham .His modus operandi is camouflaging the real old intent ( his own real intent which was opposed by Obama administration ) behind new push for diplomacy.
2
The tartan decision was indeed an odd choice. Most Americans aren't familiar with Scottish history. Most young voters haven't seen "Braveheart." Even if they were and had, you'll recall we're still discussing Scottish independence today.
Which by the way Gail, I can't believe you knew when the Pyrrhic War took place without an internet search. If had said late 2nd or early 3rd century BC, that would be credible. 275 BC exactly though? I have to believe Wikipedia was involved.
Back to the election though...
"Mayor Pete deserves great credit for doing the grown-up thing and putting party over self."
What an odd statement. Didn't we just go through an entire impeachment process where prioritizing party was an extremely bad thing for democracy and the Republic? And anyway, Mayor Pete didn't make the decision without considering self. Dropping out of the race BEFORE Super Tuesday was an extremely wise career decision. As you said, he'll likely get a job offer out of the deal along with another presidential run somewhere down the line. How is that selfless?
Anyway, the state to watch today is Texas. Sanders will still win the majority of delegates overall. However, the optics in Texas are important for Biden. If Biden can stage an upset there, he has a chance. At a minimum, he needs to trounce Bloomberg. Otherwise, good money says Sanders is the Democratic nominee.
1
I will vote for whoever wins the nomination.
At this point, I would prefer it not be Bernie Sanders.
I don’t believe the majority of voters across the country will be happy to support such a hard turn to the left.
The Dems win with centrist candidates. The most liberal candidates usually lose.
Bernie’s platform is divisive since many prefer moderate stages of change -not radical change.
I also think there would be a torrent of court challenges to Medicare for All. Look at all the court challenges to the ACA.
Primary voters need to vote for the person who can win against DT even if they prefer the platform of Bernie.
We need people to come together to evict Trump and 4 years of relative calm after this nightmare of criminals running the country.
We don’t need another period of upheaval of any kind.
6
All the bloviating about that soshulist Sanders has had the effect, in my opinion, of making more people pay attention to what he's saying rather than how he's saying it -- and a large number of those people kind of like it!
3
It may never amount to anything but I’m a little concerned that Biden appears to be a serial exaggerator. That fib about getting arrested in South Africa did not get much coverage—not nearly as much as it would in, say, a general election, or even now, in the primary, after other moderates have dropped out.
It’s not an isolated event either. Recall his first presidential campaign went down in flames over apparently-founded allegations of plagiarism.
Maybe it rears it’s head in the general election, maybe it doesn’t. You know republicans will make hay out of it if they can. Something to consider, along with the whole Hunter Biden mess.
2
Good discussion, Gail and Brett. One of the problems with this primary is that everybody is attempting to think for the millions they dont know in other places instead of for themselves. And the majority are being lead by whatever pundits' opinions they chance to read or hear. To wit: Bernie is for crazy young people and can't win. Sorry, but everyone I know in my age group , sixties and seventies, except for two, voted for either Bernie or Warren. ( I ripped open my envelope and changed Bernie to Warren but I'm really for Bernie who I am sure will win in my state ) what everyone forgets is that we made the same mistake in opting for Clinton and look what happened there? I suggest examining your conscience, what you think the country needs,( and it isnt JUST getting rid of Trump, there are more where he came from) and voting from knowledge and true thinking of your own.
2