I am so not scared. Putin and Trump worry my more.
1
Dear NYTimes (and other major news organizations): would you please also give us a constantly updated tally of deaths from the flu, state by state and country by country? That might help ease everyone’s panic.
6
I'm not remotely panicked but I am profoundly concerned about how this crisis is bringing out the despotic instincts, always at a high boil in good times, in this administration.
It's alarming that he and Pence have decreed from on high that all messaging must go through the White House and that they aren't checked on their lies.
It's illogical that airports weren't doing mandatory testing from ALL points of entry weeks ago. Stop and think. Within countries, people travel by car and train across borders; that's true all over Europe. The person from Spain who isn't being tested may well have been to France or Italy.
It's indefensible that those who came in contact with the infected were not under mandatory and supervised quarantine.
It's unethical and immoral that we have created a nation where millions will go untested because they lack healthcare. Millions more will go to work no matter how lousy they feel because they cannot afford to miss so much as an hour of work (forget a day) without imperiling the home finances.
It's indefensible that this nation wasn't better prepared for the drain on medicines, resources and food that will now ensue.
Fix each of these and you create a fair, healthy, just nation. People who earn living wages and can afford to see a doctor regularly are the first firewall against infection. Testing and quarantine add another layer of safety. Having a president who listens to science and doesn't lie should be a non-starter. Should be.
8
Experts are saying this virus will not be contained .
Isn’t it lucky that we do not have nationalized free healthcare. It’s just too bad that so many Americans can’t afford to see a doctor and can’t afford to stay home if they’re sick.
5
What’s scary is most think it’s not ‘here’ yet.
6
This is not looking good. More we know about Covid-19 epidemic and about our preparedness, more we should be concerned. Few examples: Just had my yearly physical, my PMD doesn’t have any official guidelines what to do, there are no test kits there, patients with communicable diseases intermingle in the same waiting room with those with non-communicable illnesses and families. Number of people tested for Covid-19 in some countries: Italy over 23.000, UK-13.000, Turkey-940, USA -472(then data was removed from CDC website).
Footage from around Nursing Care facility in Washington State shows healthcare workers either not wearing PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) or wearing inadequate one. If you analyze pictures from China, South Korea or many other countries, you see that healthcare workers wear appropriate masks, whole body protective garment, gloves, shoe covers and eye protection. Not in the USA! I tried to find some advice at California Department of Public Health what to do if you start having symptoms of upper (or lower) respiratory infection. They refer you to Local Health Departments (LHD), but most of the links how to report communicable disease does NOT work! I do not blame Trump or Pence for incompetence with addressing this issue, it is obvious, but our local, state, federal healthcare authorities have problem coping with this situation too! Perhaps Universal Healthcare is a solution to some of those issues?!
5
Many of the flights from italy to USA are not direct flights, but have a scale of a few hours somewhere else in Europe,
I do not quite understand the article’s stated limitation of screening only directs flights Italy to USA. It greatly diminishes the measure’s effectiveness
4
"How is it possible that the world’s most medically advanced nation has struggled to diagnose this infection? " Is this a joke ? First Trump claimed the virus will not reach the US, then you have 6 deaths within a few days ? A lot of tests taken were faulty and many people don´t get tested because they can´t afford the US $ 300 for the test? If this is "the world´s most medically advanced nation" I am happy to live in an inferior country that has universal healthcare, zero deaths so far and authorities who do inform us about the dangers and risks but do not panic!
10
Calling the USA the worlds most medically advanced nation is one of those out of date expressions written by an older author raised on a myth of American exceptionalism that ceased to be accurate at least 10 years ago if not more. Welcome to the new reality: a dumpster fire of a health system with no clue that probably thousands are infected already but who knows because it just can’t get it together to test.
16
The article, "U.S. Plans ‘Radical Expansion’ of Coronavirus Testing" [February 29, 2020] states, "The kits had three components but some of the components were producing an inconclusive result for many public health labs using the test. On Thursday, the agency announced that labs with two of three working components could go ahead and use the C.D.C. tests...."
Why should we have confidence in results of the "new" test? If the C.D.C. originally thought that all three elements were necessary for an accurate test result, how does simply eliminating one problematic element solve the problem and produce accurate results? Why should this not be viewed as more of a political solution -- let's get lots of "tests" out there to look good -- rather than a genuine public health/medical solution?
The most important thing at the moment is the credibility of the C.D.C. With rampant rumors, understandable fear, profit-seeking hustlers, and political opportunists everywhere, there must be one voice that Americans can count on to present the best understanding of the nature of the disease and its spread. This is a moment when the individuals who work for the C.D.C. must stand up as responsible Americans and not let external political pressure influence their best judgement.
4
My suggestions for avoiding the virus are to wash your hands, don’t touch your face, and avoid crowds... especially the ones at Trump’s rallies.
7
A few articles I've seen so far and liked:
BBC's overview of what the virus is:
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51048366
NPR guide:
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/02/26/809650625/a-guide-how-to-prepare-your-home-for-coronavirus
TheGuardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/02/how-to-protect-yourself-coronavirus
Let's remember to look out for each other.
2
I think everybody should take a deep breath and calm down. We could be in deep trouble, but we simply don't know enough right now. I'll admit it doesn't look good and the Trump administration is verging on the criminally incompetent. And I'm beginning to have my doubts about Fauci. We'll simply have to wait and see.
4
Honestly, the word "purging" came across my mind for a sec.
Why can't passport control check temperature? It takes a SECOND.
3
America’s vast homelessness population is what concerns me most, with huge homeless populations in densely populated areas like Los Angeles, San Fran and New York. The virus could spread like wildfire in these communities, causing considerable disruption.
4
I have been thinking the very same thing. How devastating it would be..... I’m curious if anyone in the administration has even considered the homeless population. :(
1
Prediction: 5000 cases in US by Sunday
6
Did our "government" literally do nothing for the past two months, other than criticize China?
14
How does one get tested? Despite all the press statements, nobody explain that.
1
What about the incident in Asia where it was reported that the virus had traveled through a building’s vents?
1
Physician here, married to another primary care doctor.
Did a failure of the CDC or the government in general let Covid-19 get a toehold here?
I don't think so, and neither does my wife. The problem is that, early on, we simply did not have enough information to let us make rational decisions. We did not know the incubation period, infectivity, even the typical clinical presentation.
We were flying blind.
The bottom line is that an easily transmissible respiratory disease with a long incubation and infectious period and no herd immunity in the community is going to spread widely.
The strategy now has to be widespread testing and social distancing. These measures will decrease the total number of cases and spread them out, allowing the medical system to cope better.
I live in eastern WA and we have many students from the Seattle area. I expect our first cases here within days.
10
Scientist here, and I beg to differ. We have had weeks (months) to prepare and we are NOT ready. Tracking of passengers flying from infected zones have been very relaxed. We have many international students here whose parents quarantined themselves coming back from China: not because they were told to do so, but because they are considerate people who thought they might be infectious. No one checked on them once, they might have been asymptomatic carriers. Maybe their kids have been infected and went to university.
We will never know, but we could have tested visitors and start drawing our own infection maps, collect precious epidemiologic data etc.
I agree that it is flu season, but when testing comes back negative, in these times of world wide epidemics, many Dr wish to test for coronavirus.
And they cannot.
The faulty tests story is pathetic. The WHO and CDC released primers sequences months ago. while very few laboratories have the clearance to handle viruses, ANY laboratory in the world that does basic molecular biology can handle a PCR. Not letting pathology labs do their own testing is ridiculous
The CDC released a quarantined patient "by accident" in San Antonio, where I live. She spent a day mingling with other shoppers, at a Mall, during the WE. What more do you need?
The gov is responsible for health surveillance. It's not their fault that diseases emerge and spread. But they have been sitting on their hands for 6 weeks instead of preparing. Irresponsible.
16
@biologist
I can tell you're frustrated and looking for someone or something to blame, but, sadly, even if we had had earlier testing, this still would have happened.
It is the nature of the disorder, an easily spread respiratory illness. This is how things go with these types of diseases.
1
In France there is little to none regard for the virus.
There have been several cases in our area and not only no one cares other than releasing some "wash your hand" notices but the containment procedures have been eliminated as they say why try to contain a virus that is already in France? People are openly bragging about their recent visits to high risk/contagion areas.
I am afraid this dangerous but easy-to-eliminate virus will spread wildly in Europe.
6
@Blackbird I haven’t seen this personally, people around me seem pretty concerned, but then again, the area I live has in has not been affected (yet). My husband works for a large company and they are forbidden for now to shake hands/kiss on the cheek, follow guidelines, etc. His colleague just returned from a work trip (not from a high-risk area) and he has to regularly take his temperature and check in with the office’s health center.
At least people do not have to worry about a doctor bill here as the do in the U.S., and they can take paid time off from work.
As another comment said: I predict thousands of cases in the U.S. by the end of the week, if they actually roll out widespread testing as the said they finally will.
But what are they going to do? Shut down New York City completely? San Francisco and LA also? I highly doubt it.
2
@Blackbird
The epidemiological version of the Gallic shrug?
1
"How is it possible that the world’s most medically advanced nation has struggled to diagnose this infection? Why weren’t more Americans tested sooner? How many may be carrying the virus now?"
Where on earth does this writer get the notion that the US is the "world's most medically advanced nation"? The same complex surgeries done in the US are also done--and in many cases also first developed--in other industrialized nations. The difference between those other nations and the US is that they are truly advanced--all people have access to healthcare--whereas the US is as backward as many a third world country when it comes to treating its citizens.
Wake up, America.
32
The USA has the dubious distinction today 3/2/20 of having the highest crude mortality rate (6.6%) of any country* from COVID-19, with 6 deaths out of 91 confirmed reported cases. Lots of reasons.
* Neglecting the Philipines with 1 death out of 3 cases.
13
All American living in west coast need to be tested. And you shouldn't hesitate to protect yourself because the us government won't protect you and your family unless you have enough money to pay the bill. You know, it's very expensive to ordinary people to afford it. The Chinese government pay bills to all of people affected in China, won't Mr.trump do it for his election?
6
"How is it possible that the world’s most medically advanced nation has struggled to diagnose this infection? "
First laugh of the day! Where have you been?
The US is definitely a very powerful country. It has wonderful medical research.
But the standard quality of its health care is way behind that of Switzerland, Danemark, Sweden, France.....
:):):)
18
The CDC website is updated on Monday, Wednesday and Friday with data and totals from 4pm on the previous day. Today, it was updated sometime in the afternoon/early evening to include updates from 4pm Sunday. It is not sceduled to be updated for a further 48 hrs, and then only with data from 4pm Tuesday. Why can't it be updated in near real-time? Also, the website no longer reports the number of people tested (previously frozen at 472).
14
Which "health experts" have expressed doubts over Iran's virus statistics? The WHO seems okay with their numbers.
What is Seattle waiting for? Close the schools, busses, airports, nightclubs and cancel all large events. China’s response was late but effective. We need an early and effective response here.
23
Exactly. And why are planes still even flying to and from Seattle? China, S Korea, N Italy -- they all locked down their infected towns and cities.
2
There were provisions in the Affordable Care Act that required insurance providers to cover the cost associated with vaccinations and tests for communicable disease. I am assuming Covid-19 testing would have been covered under such provisions, assuming Trump has not placed restricts or eliminated these povisions.
18
This is purely anecdotal, but I heard this evening that in San Francisco, CA, many people believe that they may have already had the virus. Apparently there has been a rather mild "flu" going around for several weeks.
7
This is purely anecdotal, but I heard this evening that in San Francisco, CA, many people believe that they may have already had the virus. Apparently there has been a rather mild "flu" going around for several weeks.
1
Same thing in NYC, only "flu" often severe (even tho patients tested negative for seasonal flu), plus cases of unexplained pneumonia. Local officials wanted to test for coronavirus, but CDC criteria prevented it. However, now NY is doing own testing.
9
Where are the common sense assurances by this administration? Warren has said the government should offer free tests to all persons with symptoms and should guarantee free vaccines to all when they become available. Medical hospitalizations for severe cases should likewise be government covered. In a nation with such haphazard medical insurance coverage this is the minimum but has not yet been proposed. And that with a Supreme Court considering the elimination of Obamacare and an administration who places the nations economic well being above that of its citizens we are forced to pray with Pence.
19
Here is one really important fact about Covid-19 that should be headline news: we don't know at this point what the fatality rate might be for those infected. I have this on the best authority, after having arrived at the same conclusion independently.
The authority Dr. Anthony Fauci, head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. He said as much tonight in an interview on NBC News. He added even if the current projections of probable death rates are reduced to 1% of those infected, it would still be far more lethal than the common flu which circulates every year.
Here is the basic problem: we (meaning doctors, scientists and governments) don't know how many people have been infected. The best point of reference is likely Wuhan, China, the source of the outbreak. Since the virus has many aspects of the common flu and colds, many more people might have it who have not been diagnosed. If the number is much larger than what is on the record, it would mean the death rates are much lower.
We now have to act as those the threat of death is very high, perhaps higher than 2% as indicated by the early statistics. Even if it were drastically lower, the virus still might require great efforts at protection and containment.
This is a time to act carefully with the full understanding that what we don't know is of vital importance.
16
As a long time reporter/editor not involved at the moment in reporting for a news organization, one of my frustrations with news reporting I see now, and sometimes in the past, too, is that facts, important facts, get lost in the shuffle. There is so much pressure to cover all aspects of a given story that important parts of it get under reported. Could it be that the death rate for those infected is really much, much less than the early indications? It is always a possibility, in which case it could be that we are seeing a massive overreaction. Yet, we can't base decisions of life or death on what we don't know, we have to go with the facts as carefully gathered.
It could be we won't know the rate of death for a long time and, perhaps, never, although that seems unlikely. We should keep in mind, however, that this is a new virus in the human body and we are learning as we go along.
3
One other comment: people in the news business are tuned to report facts. What happens when the facts are not known? They go with what is officially provided by "authoritative" sources but often those same sources are reluctant to report what they don't know. That is why Dr. Fauci's comments Monday on NBC are so important. He admitted that there is much to learn about Covid-19,
3
Look at the pictures of the Chinese healthcare workers with full protection on. The look at the poor nurses and EMTs transporting those nursing home patients in Seattle. America’s anemia response sure doesn’t look like we are great again. We look like amateurs. The Chinese built 2 thousand bed hospitals in a week in Wuhan. America can’t even coordinate testing the sick. All we did was put to lawyers (Pence and Azar) in charge of a national health crisis. The plan seems to be control the message not build hospital capacity. Hope everyone used those tax cuts to buy N-95 mask. Because the government can’t protect you.
51
Trump cut funding to the CDC for several years in a row. He said we can always hire experts if we need them. He was wrong, and the problem is on him.
51
The latest case in Oregon, a worker at a casino located near the junction of the I-84 and I-82, seems to demonstrate that the virus is spreading along the interstate highways. These are the highways that connect to the known patients in Kirkland and Portland area.
When will authorities shut down the interstates to only truckers and workers? Right now the virus is driving east and south on the interstates at the speed limit.
13
@Paul Klemencic the tribe did the right thing and quickly.. they closed their casino, knowing full well that it would cost them a precious lifeline for revenue; they closed and disinfected it along with the basketball arena. What needs to be done out here is to issue regulations to hospitals, clinics, businesses and tourist meccas like casinos anyone who shows signs or symptoms of a cold or flu needs to be removed from the premises and tested. i know it covers only a small number of all potential cases but it is a start.. Casinos, health clubs, sports arenas movie theaters supermarkets restaurants. the list is endless of course nursing homes and other senior living communities. lots of work to be done please read about the experience i had today with my local ER and public health officials.. it was shocking.
13
@Paul Klemencic, I read that Oregon has only tested 28 people even though the state health officer thinks 300 to 500 Oregonians are infected. How does that make sense?
https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/03/hundreds-of-oregonians-likely-infected-with-coronavirus-state-health-officer-says.html
4
@Paul Klemencic I was a physician, working in South Africa in 1990's. HIV/AIDS was spreading through African Continent similar way, through truck drivers, jumping from one hub to the other and not just marching steadily forward. In age of travel, communicable diseases spread fast.
9
Milan Fashion Week was between 18 - 24 February. All models have turned into vectors! We should be grateful they travel on private jets.
7
Every time I hear about "screening" which means checking body temperature, I want to scream, "What's the point?" when we already know a person can be infected, asymptomatic and contagious! Travelers from the different hot spots need to be barred from entering or quarantined upon entering the country.
Even now we are playing catch up, trying to put out fire that we know burns quickly and ferociously, instead of preventing the fire from starting in the first place. Which is greater economic cost, lost avenue from some tourists or local businesses and schools, or eventually the whole town, shutting down?
10
@Doodle The question is not "Which is greater economic cost?" but who will bear the lion's share if we shut down travel? Our government, which protects the interests of big business, is choosing to do just that - let air travel and tourism continue, and when this turns into a real crisis the taxpayer will bear the cost of dealing with it. Towns and cities will have to test, quarantine, provide isolation facilities. Uninsured and those with high-deductible will have to pay out of pocket. Workers with no time off will lose their source of income. And all that so airlines can continue operating and we don't spook the market even more. Even big-pharma will make more money the more this virus spreads.
8
Like when are we going to lock down the Seattle area, the way the Wuhan area and parts of Italy and South Korea were locked down? As far as I know, people continue to come and go from Seattle, planes fly all over the US and the world.
Maybe folks should give up the right to sue if the coronavirus vaccine causes side effects. No punative damages allowed, only compensation for medical expenses, and only by arbitration. Then the vaccine may actually come to market before all our elderly loved ones die. What is a rare bit of Guillan-Barre compared to death? C'mon consumers, pull together and swear off your lawyers In writing please.
3
@Will Hogan But then what is to guarantee we will have a vaccine that even works? Pharma companies will just race to produce something to sell us and given what Trump said, the price will be freely set by them. So we may very well end up paying though the nose for a questionable product, while giving up the only thing that may keep big pharma in check.
7
Rush a vaccine? If it isn’t effective then all the hours and money are wasted. Especially the time researchers spend on it. It’s not like these scientists grow on trees .
5
Just for the record, I have received e-mail from my representative, and one of my senators, both Democrats, about recognizing possible coronavirus infection and how to stay safe. Not that I had to say that, but the Politicizer-in-Chief needs to be responded to.
12
The only reason Coronavirus is not wide spread in every state is because when doctors beg the CDC to test patients we are consistently told no. You can’t find what you’re not allowed to look for. This is what happens when you gut the CDC and put two lawyers (Pence & Azar) in charge of a national health crisis.
55
For those who don't know medical history just google Typhoid Mary.. Asymptomatic typhoid carrier who infected hundrends of people most who later died but before dying infected thousands more. she was one of the first true quarantine cases that went through the court system , where the final result was that the government has the authority to quarantine individuals for the sake of public health. YES, typhoid is many time more infectious than this virus but the point has to made. Too many people especially younger people think that this doesn't affect them. It does for they become carriers for up to 14 days before symptoms appear all the while passing on the virus to dozens if not hundreds of others. The elderly and immune compromised will bear the brunt to this disease and will drop like flies.. Way too many people are dismissive or just plain arrogant regrading this virus.
26
I don’t know what to think or do. I live 3 hrs east of Seattle. I’ve felt like I had a really mild cold since Friday but with a dry cough. I went into work this morning for a few hours, avoided people and took my work home in order to telework. I’m planning on staying home until I feel better. I feel like it’s an overreaction but It’s hard to know what to do....
53
@Raydeohed
While the coronavirus has entered the stage of maximum hype, individual should still follow the advice of medical experts.
They recommend not going to work if you have flu symptoms. They recommend this at all times, not just because of the corona virus.
Going to work for a "couple of hours" is not what the doctor ordered.
14
The media hype over the dangers of the coronavirus has much more dangerous consequences than the virus itself. I am a Professor of Medical Genetics. There are numerous unexplained cases of coronavirus in the US and elsewhere. This raises the possibility that the Coronavirus was for a long time indigenous to humans where only recently a pathogenic variant or unknown co-factor. result in a flu. If true, asymptomatic carriers were for a long time present in the human population. I suspect that population wide screening will show that in every country a certain % of the population are corona virus carriers. The test kit just enables to quantitate indigenous coronavirus carriers that have been there long ago. In other words, it may well be that the hundred of thousands of people that are known to come down with the flu each year in spite of the flu vaccine, actually were infected with the Coronavirus instead to the 4 variants of the common types of influenza viruses: A, B, C and D. The bottomline-Covid-19 is essentially a flu with low mortality rates like the common flu that may have went molecularly undiagnosed for a long time. Caution & 14 days quarantine of carriers are a good approach until a vaccine is at hand, but all the hype and economical panic may have much more dangerous consequences than the virus itself.
12
@lieberma I have an impression that you are repeating your posts?! Covid-19 is not a flu and mortality is much higher. Also there is quite substantial morbidity, with around 14 % of patients in severe condition. Many need ICU admissions and ventilatory support or even modality called ECMO.It doesn't also help that most of fatality is among elderly and people with coexisting medical conditions , they are also human beings!
And by the way, I am not a professor, but clinician which soon may be at the frontline.
61
@lieberma
It may be worth adding details about the common cold. Most people think they "catch" a cold, but don't realize that the cold is also a virus which is actually a permanent resident in most people's bodies. All it take to become a cold is someone getting things like low resistance, from lack of sleep, exposure to cold weather or swimming, poor diet, lack of exercise, stress, etc., all of which makes a person prone to "coming down" with a cold, or even flu. The person doesn't need to be around anyone.
So you may be right, that this newly discovered virus has also been resident in a great many people, and this is just a variant. Likely some future vaccine against it will be part of the yearly flu vaccine we should get.
7
This sounds like a new take to a layperson like me, and I genuinely hope what you said is true. It did remind me a joke from the sitcom Maude: before we know about cholesterol, no one had ever died from it ...
12
People had told me that the influenza outbreak killed more people than the corona virus did. But the point is, the corona virus victims are still multiplying and hasn't come to an end yet. Many people can possibly be infected within the next few hours or minutes.
However, from what I saw in the comments section, many people are panicking from the outbreak and the best thing to do right now is so stay calm and avoid physical contact with other people. Stay clean, wash your hands, bring hand sanitizer with you all the time. That is the best possible thing we can do for now until we wait for a medication that can successfully treat the patients.
3
@Dainya
Flu kills that many *with* vaccines and antivirals. There are currently neither for this virus. China’s rate is slowing after several weeks of lockdown. Odds are the US will not find the conviction to do that.
8
Why does coronavirus kill 6% detected cases in the US?
In China is it less than 2%!
2
Because there has not been widespread testing in the U.S. There are way more than 100 cases in the U.S. In fact, they are surely under-reporting cases in China as well because many have not been tested. This means the mortality rate in China may be well below 2%.
16
@Roger Maestri I believe four of the six cases fatalities are from one nursing home in Kirkland, WA. The residents are elderly and therefore more susceptible. It’s not necessarily that the virus is proving deadlier than we thought, it’s that it took hold in a nursing facility with a vulnerable population.
8
Trump dismantled the engine of government that manages public health emergencies. This pandemic is the Trump pandemic. Trump's disdain of scientific evidence, civic institutions, the free press and government employees ignited the Coronavirus pandemic in America. Trump has made America sicker, poorer and unsafe.
42
In Wuhan, China, which was ground zero for the rapid expansion of the virus, they are now reporting a steady decrease of cases and deaths. The city's population of 11 million is 25% larger than New York City, and their total deaths so far are about .02% of the population, or 2 out of every 10,000 people.
The same reduction in cases and deaths is happening throughout China, which has 4 times the population of the U.S. Some perspective would help prevent panic reactions from reading and watching news stories which rely on sensationalism to attract readers, watchers and advertisers.
9
They also took extreme measures to contain the virus, measures we are currently not taking. People are panicking because our government officials don't seem to have a clear or consistent plan.
21
@Skybird You should not make the mistake of thinking that the only real cases of virus are the confirmed cases. These numbers can be manipulated. Indeed, one of the reasons for the large number of confirmed cases in South Korea is the fact that they are doing the most testing, by far.
7
Infections are only reducing in China because they have taken such drastic quarantine measures never seen before. Ever. They also locked down an entire city and drafted a healthcare army from other parts of the country to take care of the infected and built a hospital in 11 days. Oh and their healthcare is all paid for completely by the government.
The U.S. is taking much less aggressive measures. “Just go about your business as usual” was Pence’s message tonight. We are not going to achieve the same results with this approach. This virus is highly contagious. Cases are going to explode, and the US with its overpriced system is woefully prepared. Especially if people have to choose hospitalization or going bankrupt. Been to a hospital lately? I have. There are no beds. What will happen when all these patients suddenly show up next week? Too many patients and not enough beds equals a higher mortality rate.
There is no sensationalism going on here. Just facts. If we keep ignoring them, we are all going to be in trouble.
21
Where are the resources?
And how is everyone getting paid?
2
I’m suddenly very nostalgic for the 1950’s...when the only thing we had to worry about was the Soviet cache of nuclear missiles on Cuba...prompting drills that involved diving under our classroom desks every now and then.
Them were the days.
8
@Susanna And polio? TB? Smallpox? There also were two bad flu pandemics in the 1950s and 60s. And the prognosis for leukemia was: fatal. We're better informed now, so we fear more things, but let's face it, if this disease is so deadly among the elderly it is because it finds elderly people to kill. Some modicum of optimism is warranted.
3
@Marie
We were vaccinated against polio, etc. in the 50s.
And the US population was half what it is now...and people didn’t travel overseas at the rate that everyone does today...so we were more insulated.
3
Well I remember the 50s and also remember not being allowed to go to crowded indoor places, like the movies, in the summer because of the threat of polio contagion before the Salk vaccine became available. I also remember having to provide proof of something I think was called a "patch test", which I believe was proof I didn't have TB, in connection with things like school. Moving on to the 60s, I recall having to have an immunization booklet issued by WHO completed before my first trip to Europe. Nowadays nobody cares what you have or haven't been vaccinated for. Just look at Italy. Has one of the highest rates of measles in Europe, due largely to growth of anti-vaxxer movement and govt that refuses to do anything about it (and on occasion has appeared to even support it).
2
Stricter no. We’ve just decided to have SOME testing perhaps?? VS. nothing right?!!
I mean those coming from Italy have not even been asked a question let alone a test!!!
14
And who could forget the Trump dissolved the Pandemic Response Team at CDC in 2018. And now Pence in charge of US response.... he's the Indiana governor that resisted clean needle exchange program in Indiana which then resulted in a AIDS crisis in rural Indiana.
18
And again we have to blame this mess upon the boyish self centered narcissistic Pres.
Whose cut funding, fired the scientist’s, and made this about again.
Molly Jong-Fast, editor at the Daily Beast mused: Does anyone think it’s weird that Trump is so offended by #COVID-19. He thinks it’s a personal affront instead of a Public health emergency.”
Freelance writer Sheila Quirke nailed the answer: “Textbook narcissist. He is the center of all things, so, of course, a growing global pandemic is about him. This is true of ALL things and will not change. From his POV, the world, people, all things are only experienced in relationship to him being centered.”
32
I am baffled that there appears to be no testing being performed on random samples of "healthy" people so we can better understand how widespread the virus really is. We may have a whole lot of carriers who are not getting sick. Any statistician would say the current testing methodology is extremely biased because only people who exhibit symptoms are being tested.
This kind of data would give us a much better perspective on how rapidly the virus is spreading. We have no idea of what the ratio is of people who are significantly ill with the virus compared to how many are carrying it.
The absence of this very important piece of data may be due to the shortage of testing kits but if we don't hear something about this question soon I would strongly question the competence of the team Mike Pence is leading.
29
Pence’s Virus Task Force needs to provide Americans with factual information. For example, are all states following the same testing and treatment protocol? Does the nation have all of the equipment it needs? Does every city/town have plans to deal with a surge of patients? There should be a press conference every day at the same time and press should actually be allowed to ask questions.
11
Republicans don’t believe in science and hate experts almost as devoutly as they believe government cannot and should not do anything about anything. So now we’re seeing in real time what happens when you take Republican orthodoxy to its irrational conclusion. Maybe we’ll get a clue.
I’m afraid we’ve been outsmarted by a government that responds more to what we see in the news and not what it should have responded to in the beginning.
18
This just came from my daughter who is an RN re self care: yes wash, wash, wash your hands. Yes, keep your hands off your face. AND, keep your cell phone away from your face as well. Of course.
20
Multiple fever checks ( strict screening )for air passengers inbound to USA from Italy, Iran & other Covid-19 outbreak areas is political theater. It won’t catch many cases. It’s become apparent many people are asymptomatic for anywhere from 14-24 days ( lengths of quarantine) so testing for fever during that time reveals nothing. They get screened, are fever-free & fly — then develop symptoms several days later.
What would work better is quarantining people for a month before they’re allowed into USA by any route: boat, plane etc. Doubt that will happen.
How does “ strict screening “ make any sense? Besides the virus is here & spreading. Maybe it’s important to make the public feel *things are being done.”
12
What disturbs me is the obvious disparity between what is the published percent of deaths to overall infections--2%. Right now,
today==we nave 6 deaths in Washington --an extraordinary increase in percent of deaths. So, either we've missed hundreds of infected people because of lack of testing, or the percent of deaths is vastly higher. I presume the government's failure of testing is the cause.
22
@JoeBlaustein nope 3,000 deaths with over 90,000 cases means its over 3% mortality
1
It's crazy that thousands of people who are so afraid of this virus that they feel the need to stockpile food go to Costco stores that are crowded with thousands of strangers that have been who knows where in the world. Germs must have been floating around everywhere in those stores all weekend long, exposing everyone to not just regular flu and colds, but maybe to COVID-19, too. Smart thinking, Costco shoppers.
11
Not everyone is afraid of the virus. I was afraid of running out of supplies if and when I need them, just because other people might panic and hoard. You’re from Seattle, you remember what the grocery store shelves looked like during last year’s Snowmageddon.
But I did my Costco shopping on Tuesday, when there was a normal amount of shoppers — and plenty of hand sanitizer, rice, Clorox bleach wipes (on sale!), toilet paper, and water. Oh, and there were still some Mountain House freeze dried meals for sale online...of course, they’re long gone now.
My only confusion is why are people are buying so much bottled water??
9
@Arhat I agree with your being confused about the water but I stocked last week knowing there has been a gap in manufacturing in China and read Procter and Gamble expects a problem with raw materials. Felt that having a generous supply of household items there is nothing to lose.
2
It isn’t just the lack of reliable testing. It is also the obvious lack of infectious disease protocols. Look at the pictures. Health care workers wearing regular masks, not N95 masks, wearing no protective gear, wearing only gloves, escorting these patients into the ambulance. The CDC keeps telling us that these masks do not prevent us catching the virus. So why do we have people wearing street clothes, maybe gloves, wearing masks that won’t stop them from catching the illness, and letting them then go home after the shift is over? This has spread because the majority of hospitals are not the University of Nebraska with the level of protection against communicable diseases. Ebola didn’t not spread because those patients went straight to Omaha. The casual traveler who returned from Italy or Iran or South Korea, walked into a community hospital “sick” and was tested. Well everyone who came into contact with that person is at risk. Did we test them? No, they finished their shift and were allowed to go home. This is how it spread, my best guess, in Washington. There is no way to enact the highest level of biohazzard protection everywhere. So it isn’t just lack of testing, but lack of proper biohazzard protections. Once a responsible citizen walks into a local ED to be tested, the cat is already out of the bag. We have no details about any of this which is why the hype continues. We need facts.
25
@M -it looks like only 2 are wearing the n95 masks and they seem to be health care pros, the others look like volunteers helping out.. discrimination? maybe
We’re not the world’s “most medically advanced nation” - far from it. We’re the ONLY country among the world’s richest and most developed that leaves tens of millions without access to health care or sick leave, guaranteeing that large numbers of people will go to work sick and avoid hospitals. Then there’s our President and his administration, anti-science and anti-truth to the core, destroying the credibility of our government while dismantling the agencies designed to deal with such problems.
Yeah, we may have the best technology and techniques for the fanciest surgeries for rich people, but when it comes to restraining something like this pandemic, we are not in good shape.
57
This testing fiasco has been brewing for weeks and yet I saw very little pushback from the press until today. The incompetence of the government response makes me angry, but I'm even more frustrated that our free press failed to seriously challenge what was clearly going to create the very situation we're now in.
There should have been an article every single day calling out the CDC's failure to process even a fraction of what they claimed to be capable of. 400 a day? They averaged 15! Scientists and medical professionals have been talking about this for weeks, and yet it seemed to get barely a mention. I wasn't aware the US refused test kits from the WHO until today. Why was this not clearly called out as reliable test kits failed to materialize over and over? Why am I only finding out now that the state of NY had been asking the CDC for permission to create their own test only to be ignored for 3 weeks?
Netizens have been dismayed that we are making the same choices China did by failing to use other methods, such as diagnostic scans and the process of elimination. Certainly, by the third week, the press should have been asking these questions and done something other than just regurgitate case numbers as if they represented reality. I've defended reputable news outlets like this one on an almost daily basis since 2016 and continued to do so even as I became increasingly frustrated at this situation.
I don’t understand what happened and I’m so very disappointed.
49
@Kerrielou
You are absolutely correct. This is an outrage that is being treated as business as usual.
11
@Kerrielou not just the feds but here in Oregon the OHA the state health agency, the local hospitals and county health depts please read my comments regarding the experience i had today with all of the above.
I'm in San Antonio, and the largest mall here just shut down for "deep cleaning". This happened after it was revealed that a person who had been previously quarantined at Lackland AFB and released after testing negative for the virus, tested positive after visiting the Mall. As a result, the City has just filed an emergency injunction in Federal Court requesting that the military be required to keep the patients quarantined on base until the spread of the virus is contained.
15
@Rene
Wow. Those people could be at Lackland for a long time but it is necessary to make sure those testing positive are not released to infect others. A man at Lackland claimed to be the "safest people" but clearly he hadn't read the latest news.
2
@Rene. This is insane. I just saw this on the news. This shows how clueless Trump and his ‘experts’ are.
1
I am a holistic health practitioner with thirty years experience. There is a lot we can do to boost our immunity. We don't have a vaccine yet and it may be a year until we do, at which point the virus probably will have mutated into something else. I have just published Holistic Help for the Coronavirus on Amazon (Andie Holman) which gives easy to implement remedies and suggestions on how to use food as medicine. We can collectively improve our immune systems and protect ourselves beyond washing our hands.
11
Mike Pence: what if I travel to Seattle? Will you be taking my temperature before allowing me to return to Oregon? Wait. Coronavirus is present here too.
7
Stop saying the flu killed more people than coronavirus. How does that make this virus any less threatening than it already is? Also, instead of playing down the gravity of the situation, the government needs to properly educate people on what it is doing to prevent the outburst of the disease, what it will do if it does spread nationwide, and what it is doing to support the development of a vaccine.
17
If you get it and don't die, can you get it again?
@Paul Yes, there are multiple reports of that. More likely, they still had it and never were recovered.
9
@Paul I'm not sure but recently read something disturbing indicating that might be possible. There is so much about this virus we still don't know.
4
No. Same as with the flu.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could read more of the actual lessons China has learned throughout their handling of the outbreak.
11
@Nicole Perhaps we can say they learned very little from SARS. Let's start there.
5
@Sonia Well, I have not said that they haven't make any mistakes. Both failures and successes are lessons. How about paying no attention to anyone else whatsoever and see where that would get you.
2
@Nicole lesson # 1, muzzle, threaten, jail and kill those who put out negative stories about the country's leadership, or culture or threatens the "stability and harmony of its people"most notably the doctors and reasearchers; lesson2- lock up hundreds of millions of people, deprive them of needed medical attention because of the country's ineffective, ill prepared medical community #4 encourage neighbors to rat on, spy on their neighbors... i could go on but then i would go over my word limit
I remember way back when ... we said well, we can survive 4 years of Trump so long as there's no real emergency for him to grapple with. At the time we thought a nuclear emergency of some sort. Perhaps we should remember come November that emergencies come in all flavors and we need a capable, thoughtful C-in-C who can read and absorb information, one who surrounds himself with people smarter than s/he is. Think, People, think.
22
I urge you all to read the March 1st, 2020 article by Bandy Lee on
www.rawstory.com
It is in raw story because the American Psychiatric Association is federally funded, and 3 years ago eliminated psychiatrists’ public health duty to this administration. Subsequently,on advice from the APA, the media formed formal and informal policies not to report on psychiatrists advice on Trump’s mental health.
Psychiatrists were silenced.
Now what they feared is coming to pass.
14
I think the homeless population in San Francisco is very vulnerable. They also congregate in certain busy areas, posing a risk to others. How would the public health services deal with a large contingent of the homeless having this virus?
19
@lucidbee I think we have similar problem in NYC. Many street people hanging out at NY Public Library and Starbucks with the type of cough I
never knew existed. And not just during this crisis. I have started limiting time I spend at places like that, esp in winter, and making sure I always have hand sanitizer and wipes with me.
8
Thanks a lot, China.
12
@Bob Milnover
We all knew this was coming eventually. And yet the Trump administration's smaller government snake oil still sold.
Logical chickens are coming home to roost. Don't say we didn't tell you so.
16
@Bob Milnover Yes, by taking the actions they did the Chinese bought us weeks of time to prepare. They took extraordinary measures to slow down the spread of this disease. The world owes a large dept to the Chinese, especially their health workers, scientists and administrators for buying us time to prepare properly. The fact that we seem to have squandered much of this time is on us.
51
@ACH
The Chinese sat on this story for several critical weeks because the totalitarian regime did not want to be embarrassed.
The world owes them nothing.
13
By identifying the virus, and then imposing a strict lock down at the epicenter and its environs, the Chinese bought the world weeks of time to prepare screening, equipment, and capacity. They sequenced the virus, immediately posted it, giving the rest of the world capacity to test for it. They also demonstrated to the world that with political will, discipline, good organization, and computational skill, the spread of a virus can be blunted through the flexible and differentiated application of classic public health tools such as contact tracing and social distancing. It seems that much of this forewarning and advantage has been squandered. Much of that blame can be attributed to ideological hubris: a belief that this epidemic was a result of China's hidebound and inflexible political system when the exact opposite was true.
43
You said everything I wanna say. It make sense that ordinary people who never been to China has no idea of how it really is now, but in my opinion the media has been reporting biasly for too long and keep feeding the outdated prejudices and stereotypes to the public.
However, I do think the Chinese government has much responsibility on this situation too, not only for the internet firewall, more importantly, it completely failed to make voice and push back on the bias and misunderstanding. And it is every Chinese who suffer from the results, I can hardly have equal and effective conversation with my western friends about China, because there’s too much myths and misinformation to deal with ahead of any effective talks. SAD:(!
7
Reports keep saying people who have died had “underlying conditions,” but what exactly does that mean? How did a man in his 40’s and another in his 50’s die if the illness affects the elderly and fragile? How do “underlying conditions” affect the progress of this illness? As a 54 year old woman with well-controlled asthma, I’m feeling mighty nervous with all the vague reassurances. What is the risk for middle aged people? Most of us have an underlying condition or two by the time we reach half a century.
33
@Eileen Hall
Just as an example the poor fellow in his 40s may have had an autoimmune condition. I am worried too because I have an underlying condition. You are not alone. Because I live in a country with Universal coverage I don't have to worry about going bankrupt. It amazes me that many Americans think universal health care is some kind of extreme idea.
By opposing Universal coverage people are implying that if you have less money you have less of a right to live. In this instance it seems to me that Socialism is less of a threat than Capitalism. It does not have to be either/or. We have universal coverage here and a right wing government.
Its times like these that the costs of not having medicare for all or some single payer system are more costly than just providing it in the first place.
27
I support universal healthcare. I’m a Democrat. But I feel as if we are not being told the truth.
18
@Eileen Hall
Americans have been lied to for some time bout Universal coverage by monied interests calling it socialist to have what every other modern country has. The reason why Americans are lied to is because wealthy middlemen are making a fortune out of the sufferings of ordinary Americans. My heart is with you all. Just because you are a great people does not mean that the unscrupulous are not ripping you off. Good luck with avoiding this virus Eileen.
14
Projections on the success or failure to contain and treat the Covid-19 virus is meaningless unless we have widespread accurate testing of our population. I believe the difference in our numbers and that of other countries boils down to those countries ability to achieve mass testing and universal treatment of it citizens. Itialians are not concerned with whether they have met their deductible or what their copay will be if they seek diagnosis and treatment of their symptoms. Add in fear of loss of income from staying home from work with possible quarantine.
9
The Trump Administration is an utter disaster and failure.
61
@DSD Convient you dont fault the dems in Washington State who have failed the nursing home patients when the facility has been cited in the past for flawed practices in infection prevention.
1
Seems that an evil totalitarian government handled this better than a virtuous democracy. Unsettling isn’t it? Maybe this democracy isn’t as virtuous as we thought. So far Xi seems to care more about his citizens than Trump about Americans.
49
@Pigsy The fraud cares about his people, but only as defined by Citizens United: corporations.
19
I have spoken to the pharmacy technicians at Walmart and also at Walgreens here in our city. According to these employees, they are going to be provided no protection at all although they will be on the front lines of this crisis with ill people standing in front of them, asking for help and buying medication.
The girl at Walmart that I spoke to said they’d already had one girl in critical care with the flu and the rest of the people working there still have no masks and no protection. They say they ask for them but “nothing ever happens“.
This should be considered corporate criminality at this point.These people can’t afford to take time off of work. The least they can be provided with is some kind of protection for themselves.
56
@Chana
So why don't they buy their own masks? With their employee discount they would not be expensive.
Never understood why, if you feel you are in some kind of jeopardy, you would wait and do nothing at all until your employer/government/local council stepped in to help with even basic requirements.
3
@Chana Masks are for the sick, not the healthy. A mask on a healthy person is basically a germ collector, same as for the sick. Think about it.
3
Try buying a mask Paul.
17
A Vice President who was slow to respond to a health crisis when he was Governor.
A President who actively peddles vaccination lies.
No reason whatsoever for the public to be concerned.
11
And a President who says a pandemic is a “Democrat Hoax” yo bring down his presidency - you cannot make this stuff up. If the GOP thinks what Trump is demonstrating is leadership they have to have their heads examined
7
What about flights from Seattle to just about anywhere? Will they be screening those people? Will they be testing them for virus before they allow them to board? Will airlines even continue flying there?
13
Hope so - I am currently in NYC and I need to get back home! No, i am not infected
3
Are there any plans to test people currently hospitalized for pneumonia for COVID-19? That information would be very, very useful to have. Have there already been deaths, which were not caught because testing was unavailable?
19
@Laura I know some states, including NY, have been wanting to do that for good month or so, because of number of unexplained pneumonia cases, as well as cases of severe flu that were testing negative for seasonal flu. However, when CDC controlled testing -- like until last week--they wouldn't test such patients because didn't meet CDC criteria --that is, insufficient contacts with China.
7
‘We have nothing to fear but fear itself.’
Democrats — 1930s
‘Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.’
Democrats — 1960s
‘The sky is falling! The sky is falling!’
Democrats — present day
Pathetic...
4
@EGD
"When anyone sneezes, I'm out of there fast!"
Donald J. Trump - Saturday, February 29, 2020
Oh, brave, brave leader!
39
@EGD That is a straw man because they are not saying the sky's falling. They are critical of the Trump response and also issuing a warning. Straw men are a classic conservative tactic. That is present your opponents position for them in a way that makes it easy to make your own argument; and then counter it at one's own convenience.
14
Trump hasn't worried too much about this disease because almost all cases were in blue states until today.
Watch him do a 180 as red states get infected.
13
@J Anders
There are no red states or blue states.
There are red counties and blue counties.
And, like all presidents before him, Trump cares about the well-being of everyone.
You just despise him.
2
@EGD
Yes, it's for "everyone's" well-being that children are in cages, social services are continually sacrificed for tax-breaks for the wealthy, and Rudy demanded an investigation of Biden in Ukraine, etc, etc, etc.
Some of the rhetoric against Trump re: coronavirus is as preposterous as Trump (jr)'s rhetoric on the issue.
Regardless, "there's good people on both sides" in this one - but don't tell me Trump cares about the "well-being" of everyone, when clearly he does not.
12
@EGD
Does Donald despise anybody or is he a font of inclusiveness, tolerance and compassion? It looks like he is perpetually frustrated, fuming, blaming, ranting, angry, lashing out.
What is there about him not to despise?
Dot points will do. It won't take long.
11
Somebody arrived in the US on a cruise ship from Italy on February 29 and no one greeted the ship to test disembarking passengers.
The virus will make it’s way through the US population.
16
@Erik Frederiksen
That person was my friend (at least, if you read what I posted earlier today).
I absolutely cannot believe they let people off without any checks whatsoever.
15
It has been know for at least two decades that air pollution originating in China can be transported to the US West Coast (for recent summary see Zhu, Qingzhe, et al. "Transport of Asian aerosols to the Pacific Ocean." Atmospheric Research 234 (2020): 104735). Because of the wide spread occurrence of the coronavirus in China, is should not be surprising that the virus could hitchhike on Chinese air pollution and in turn infect people in US western coast states. This could explain how some people in the Pacific Northwest could become infected with virus without having any contact with previously infected people.
2
@JB-CA
If you know anything whatsoever about viruses, you would know that there is zero chance of them riding air currents over the Pacific to America.
But who needs air currents when we have thousands of airplanes and cruise ships full of people coming in every day?
88
@JB-CA
I'm sorry, but viruses do not hitch rides on upper atmosphere pollution.
Unless you have hard facts confirming your theory, it would be best to not post things that cause panic.
51
@JB-CA
Do you realize how vast the Pacific is? No virus could survive alive for such a journey. You should not speculate on forums like this, as some people will believe you know what you are talking about.
If your idea had any truth behind it, you would expect to see raging COVID-19 on every Pacific island, AND THAT IS NOT THE CASE.
45
Amazing that even with all this going on, the GOP continues to push for taking people’s healthcare away.
Republicans truly are deplorable people and they represent the worst this country has to offer.
Of course, the party’s aversion to government will bite it when this starts to spread in the Red Welfare States. The Evangelical Zealots who run those states are about to learn that the virus is immune to the thoughts and prayers that they see as the solution to all of our country’s problems.
76
@Sterling
Why do ‘progressives’ hate others so much. Unknown.
But I will do what it takes politically to ensure people like this are nowhere near political power.
1
Like what?
2
I live in Florida;controlled by Republicans. Here is the email I sent them.Here in Florida only 23 people have been tested;there are two confirmed cases.But with that small number tested;there could be thousands infected that we do not know about. We have lost confidence in our Govt. Ron Desantis and Mike Pence attended a fundraiser here Friday.Donald Trump had a rally Friday where he called the Coronavirus a hoax.Trump mistakenly called a victim a woman Saturday;it was a man.Donald Trump has a rally tonight in NC.Mike Pence spent Sunday on TV talk shows defending Donald Trump's jr son;jr said that Democrats wanted to see millions of Americans die. We do not see a comphrehensive plan to combat the virus;what plans for Schools;Hospitals;gasoline dist; energy dist; testing; masks? We have lost confidence in our Government. Ray Sipe; Dist 18; Florida
63
The "preparation" this administration has done thus far is to decide on a strategy that tells us the problem doesn't really exist. After Trump spoke on Saturday, it is clear that we are now all on our own. Each family, each individual.
Under this "president" our federal government will do nothing but worsen the problem. Expect our "president" to continue to lie to us about this illness. Expect our "president" to continue saying it is all a hoax, even though dozens of community acquired cases have already been documented in this country. Expect our "president" to have his toadies oversee the containment efforts - all the while ignoring the advice of skilled scientists. Mike Pence as "Virus Czar"? Positively Kafkaesque.
And expect that all of the "president's" supporters to also believe it is a hoax. This means that some 45% of our citizens will not be taking even the most basic of sensible precautions. Trump has, with his reckless talk, essentially primed tens of millions of his adoring fans as nothing more than disease vectors. If this disease spreads rapidly, they'll be to thank for failing to take the crisis seriously.
So expect that the truth will not be reported. Expect that medical resources will not be available when they are needed. Expect hospitals to be overrun by the many tens of thousands of folks (or more) without health care coverage, or who cannot afford their deductibles. In short, expect to see this virus play out as it would in any Third World country.
31
As this gets worse, watch for Trump to cut and run to his enclave In Florida. His moral cowardice is all too obvious.
39
@Doremus Jessup
Maybe not, since Florida declared a state of emergency this morning...
15
Please remember, that Trump is above the law. I’m sure he’s also convinced that he is also immune from disease.
Mad King Donald is more and more befuddled, bothered and bewildered.
He’s more dangerous now than he’s ever been.
We all should be vary wary.
24
Pence to nation: uhhh... umm. Trump!
17
Vote for Biden. Remember: Lincoln favored reverse colonization of slaves before circumstances created an opening. Biden is smarter and more politically deft (avoids "waffling" tag a la Kerry) than most credit him. End of slavery is FAR more consequential than Medicare For All, but Biden will listen to the growing chorus and wrestle with these decisions just as Lincoln did.
5
@Kevin K
Biden is currently wrestling with what state he is in or for which office he is running.
Go easy on him.
5
@Kevin K Biden supported Bank deregulation,Bankruptcy laws for corporations,but not "the working and middle class".Supported Mass incarceration of minorities.Throughout his career he has been supported by corporations like DuPont,Credit Card corporations,the Banking Industry,Law Corporations like Morgan and Morgan.He advocated for the Iraq War,attacked Anita Hill and has consistently been against a Public Healthcare option until recently. He certainly is leaps and bounds better than Bloomberg and I will vote for him but he will lose to trump. The elite establishment of the Democratic Party is so out of touch with the working and middle classes and what their daily life entails.
3
Well, thank god we have a Commander-In-Chief that... well, never mind.
31
I have a family member who is sick in Seattle. He believes he has a bad cold. There's no testing available. He is boarding a plane tomorrow to fly to another US city. The airline will not waive change fees. Screening people coming from Italy? How about identifying people here who could be spreading it???
50
ALASKA Airlines is saving change fees
Assign blame accordingly? It's too late for that and it does not help. The virus will make itself known through the food chain. Understand it's not a test.
1
@Timothy Langley
Recognizing that cutting the CDC's infectious disease budget by 80% in fiscal year 2018-19 and firing its entire Infectious Disease Team to "save money" was completely idiotic will save us from future mistakes of the kind.
If you never look back, you cannot go forward.
10
@J Anders There will be time for those things after we actually begin prosecuting a collective plan with a workable best case solution.
1
@Timothy Langley “There will be time for those things after we actually begin prosecuting a collective plan with a workable best case solution.”
Please translate that word salad sentence into plain English.
Until then, thoughts and prayers, Timothy, thoughts and prayers.
This issue has dominated the headlines for over a month now, and is really concerning. The NYT has published multiple articles with tips on how to cope. Would it be possible to compile them together into one so it's easier to find all the preparation suggestions? Hoping for the best for people in the US.
4
Exactly! That was my question. I believe that’s the first thing for now. And if there’s no official one yet, people should act on it themselves, help each other out!
6
Our Healthcare system, which is based on profit, cannot and will not handle Corona virus spread if it will not increase profits.
7
So there's 101 cases and 6 deaths in the US. That's a fatality rate of 5%. In China, the fatality rate is 2%. What's the reason for the difference in fatality rates?
9
@Diane
Low sample number. Too low to draw a conclusion. Also there are probably in the low thousands of asymptomatic cases that we don't know about which would lower the death rate statistics if known
11
@Diane
trump's refusal to take this seriously.
3
@Diane Your question makes me think it would be really helpful to have some case-by-case info of these patients.
2
“Within the next 12 hours, there will be 100 percent screening, all direct flights at all airports across Italy and across South Korea,”
This new measure to combat the spread of the disease to the US is taken from your special feature on the outbreak. However we are told that italian authorities puzzled at the spread of the virus to Italy ( after direct flights from China were banned)were conjecturing that travellers from China might simply have arrived by making onward flight connections via a country without such a ban.
At least to the reader simply targeting flights rather than individuals from an infected country seems to offer obvious loopholes.
12
Incredibly, some here are writing that lack of knowledge about this virus by doctors is due to our private health system, implying that with M4A, doctors will be more on top of new illnesses. I am very impressed with efforts to disseminate medical knowledge about this virus immediately after cleared for publication and to do it world-wide. If your doctor doesn't seem up on what's happening, it's not because of how the bill is being paid.
2
Fox News: Breaking news. West coast liberals and immigrants to blame for virus!
Trump: Corona is real. Corona is real.
3
In full election mode, trump blathers that recovery is going well; tell that to the increasing number of people in Washington who died in the past two days.
In total desperation, trump announces before a large group of drug development experts that a vaccine is going to be available soon. Tony Fauci, the premier federal expert in infectious diseases, contradicts him to assert the scientific realities that coronavirus vaccine trials, even in hurry-up mode, take a year or more.
The far bigger threat in this crisis is trump.
16
“As global epidemic spreads”. Hmm, isn’t that the definition of a pandemic? Why are we avoiding the obvious?
15
100,000 Americans will die from this virus by May 2021. No testing. People who are asymptomatic will infect the entire population. Health care workers should be tested monthly especially in hospitals and rehab facilities.
My hospital is in New England, not Vermont, and allows sick coughing employees to interact with patients because of budgetary reasons . They are understaffed. People pretend not to notice. Read Leviticus chapter 5 verse 1.
As a whistleblower I will report them to DPH.
Will keep you in the loop. Am sure my hospital is not an outlier.
10
@Tullymd I'm a hospital nurse, and am expected to work sick, as are my colleagues. We have limited PTO, and once it's used up, we get written up for calling in sick. Your job is threatened. So, employees are walking around sick, seeing patients, mixing with other employees. Careful as we try to be, we're tired, stressed, and I'm sure we make mistakes and spread it around.
7
China did a fabulous job with this illness once they truly identified the problem...
1)testing and treatment were free
2)enough public health infrastructure to investigate cases, identify contacts and keep them under surveillance
3) national fever clinics who saw 46,000!!!! patients per day
4) ability to TEST... 320,000 test per day at some points
5)Relatively low mortality because they found cases FAST and supported them with treatment, including ventilators, ICU and even extracorporeal membrane oxygenation (taking blood continuously out of the body and oxygenating it)
6)China has extraordinarily sophisticated health care for this problem... they harnessed amazing resources that are putting the USA to shame.
We may not do nearly as well, as Washington state seems to attest.
22
@Somebody
This. Wake up, America.
6
@Somebody
Not to mention that China's mass quarantine was made possible by the fact that their workers get paid time off to stay home.
12
I was in Costco yesterday. Most carts I saw were stocking up on water and toilet paper. I asked a few people if they trusted Trump that "we shouldn't worry." The usual facial expression and comment was "are you kidding me" or "he's a liar." One elderly woman said she was a two time cancer survivor and hesitated to wish disease on anyone but thought maybe Trump should experience the virus.
19
@David B.
If Trump truly believes what he says at his press conferences, he shouldn't mind a "meet and greet" line to shake hands with his believers after his rallies, right?
10
I'm shocked. shocked that i, as a person who came down with a very severe flu this weekend could not get a straight answer from: my local hospital ER on the phone; the county health department t whom i was directed to call by the local hospital ER; the State Health Authority(OHA). the representative helping me today didn't even know the protocols have changed during the last 24 hours!! My primary care physicain's clinic said they don't have testing kits and to go to the local ER where they can take samples and send them to be tested, but when i called them they said that only the county health officials can direct them to take samples and send them off to be tested.. Utter chaos!!! Pass the buck!! Nobody wants to take responsibility!! No central governmental agency that can issue directives and rules to all hospitals and clinicians in the state. I thought that the OHA was threat agency but the 211(phone number to call regarding Coronavirus) wasn't even informed of the updated protocols and gave misleading information. the call i received from my county health dept was just to get my primary care physicians name and counseled me on wearing a mask if i were to go out in public We are headed for disaster folks no doubt in my mind now. We have had about 6-8 weeks to prepare and as of today , we aren't. Not by a long shot! Some first world country we are. i think i'll live long and prosper if i just pack up my bags and move to a jungle island somewhere.
20
@lou andrews
Move to China, maybe? They seem to be handling this pretty well now...
3
@lou andrews don’t eat the animals you find there, if there even exists a remote island any more.
@Chip - i won't i'll just live in the trees and eat mangoes
Time for Trump to go visit Seattle. To show support and all....and not in a helicopter flyby!
8
Some obvious things our federal government needs to do:
1. Tell people that if they're sick, stay home for two weeks.
2. Tell businesses to continue paying sick employees.
3. Tell businesses the federal government will reimburse the businesses for any days out of work that are not covered by their sick time.
39
@Snowball
What do you think the chances are the Trump administration will do any of that?
12
@Snowball
You do know what happened to Snowball in Orwell's book don't you? Ironically there is a snowball in hell's chance of the government reimbursing business too. They have a tax break to provide for billionaires
9
At least rural hospitals have closed nationwide since 2010, mostly in the South. And mainly in states that refused to expand Medicaid under Obamacare.
https://www.shepscenter.unc.edu/programs-projects/rural-health/rural-hospital-closures/
But, hey, smaller government is great, right? Until it's not.
43
@J Anders
Yes, smaller government is great.
Were these hospitals supposed to operate at a loss?
@EGD
Yes.
Rather, they should operate as a public service - health care is a human right.
Yes, that means our taxes should make healthcare available to rural folk (even if they don't care for "soashahlism").
Blue states are already subsidizing red states. Metropolitan centers are already subsidizing rural areas. Nothing new.
18
I guess school that don’t make money should close. If the fire department has budget shortfalls they should close down. Hospitals should be considered essential services and subsidized as needed. No tax cuts for anyone until bills are paid.
15
"...Later, the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank issued a joint statement saying that they “stand ready to help our member countries ..., particularly “poor countries where health systems are the weakest and people are most vulnerable..."
That's US, right here!
36
It worries me that the whole White House team seem to be HIV experts. I understand that they "go back a long way" (as they kept saying), but will their assumptions based on their extensive expertise with HIV blind them to some aspects of this disease that differ markedly from the ways that AIDS behaves?
11
@Julian
Especially since Mike Pence basically single-handedly caused one of the biggest HIV outbreaks in this country in years when he was governor of Indiana.
23
@J Anders
Gosh, I would think high-risk behavior would cause an HIV outbreak, not anything a politician did or did not do.
Of course, here in California, Democrats and ‘progressives’ turned DELIBERATE HIV transmission into a misdemeanor so perhaps politicians do play a role.
The GOP continues to provide its INCOMPETENCE over and over
Can’t Mike Pence just pray it away?
37
@Josh Wilson
Are you referring to VP Mike Incompetence?
His handling of the Indiana HIV crisis when he banned needle exchange programs and his sage advice that cancer is not caused by cigarettes might cause us all to turn to prayer... and thoughts too.
5
“Campaign rallies are very safe”, says Donald Trump.
Wow, I feel so safe!
Donald, what a pathetic, uninformed ignoramus you are. Excuse me, I should haves said Mr. President, first.
38
I asked an MD today what’s different about COVID-19 vs H1N1. His reply - the only difference is that Trump is president. As I already believed, he predicted this will fizzle out by May or June, or at least, slow substantially. By fall we’ll have a vaccine for the ‘20-‘21 flu season. This attempt at Trump derangement will also fail. The Time’s needs to halt the fear mongering.
4
@Keith Colonna
If your doctor doesn't know the difference between coronavirus and rhinovirus, you probably need to find a new one.
55
@jason
The Chinese have quarantined 50 million people. The U.S. still isn't checking people getting off cruise ships from infected areas.
My guess is we're going to find out very soon which country "botched" its resopnse.
25
@Keith Colonna
You could not be more accurate. I have heard liberals at work complain that Trump administration is trying to scare people one day and the next day not doing enough. This is not that big of a deal of a disease. It’s just that a incompetent, dictatorship known as China botched it. You know, the same country that everybody has been saying how awesome they our end we need to fear. This will easily be handled by June. Donald Trump can then sit around and remind everybody how the Democrats were going around with their hair on fire.
He has handled it like a pro. And at the same time, exposing China as a joke.
3
Soon as Big Pharma is done scaring money out of the Congress, the GOP is done distracting us from a Democratic race that wants to provide universal health care to prevent outbreaks and billionaires are done punishing the world economy for a trade war... er... I mean when flu season is over...
... can I finally buy a paint mask at Home Depot again?
6
Thanos has spoken!! This virus might kill millions. The death rate for elderly and those with compromised immune system is in double digits in China. 6 of 102 infected in the US have died resulting in a 6X higher death rate than the flu. There is no vaccine or treatment this ... and the politicians are saying “dont worry too much.” The country needs to mobilize now
8
The NYT needs to put up a daily scorecard. New diagnoses, total diagnoses, patients remaining in isolation, new and total deaths, etc. All the numbers being flung around are not clarifying our situation.
14
@Shillingfarmer
And daily prognostications by Trump, Pence, & co.
As of Monday afternoon, according to the NYT there have been 98 cases and 6 deaths. That's a 6% fatality rate - three times what the rest of the world has been reporting. So are we failing to identify many more who have the illness or are we failing in our treatment of those identified? Is there a third option?
4
@Barbara
Your math is wrong; that's not how you compute the fatality rate. The denominator is tha # of people who have the disease, not just the # reported. The # of those who actually have it is certainly higher than 98, which means the fatality rate is lower than 6%.
4
@Barbara having a lot of it show up in a nursing home would increase fatalities....
1
China: Regression to the mean? Maybe to early to tell.
1
https://komonews.com/news/coronavirus/5-school-close-monday-for-cleanings-over-coronavirus-concerns
They are only closing schools with one degree of separation from an infected person. They need to close more schools. We are still in the window to contain this. A single country health commissioner is putting the nation at risk. We have to be proactive rather than reactive. Close the schools.
8
@PictureBook
That's just the number of schools in the Puget Sound area that have closed. There are 68 statewide in Washington that are closed for cleaning.
6
The USA is about to get a real time example of the benefits of every citizen having health care and mandatory paid sick leave.
The virus will spread faster in the USA than in other western countries because workers won’t get tested for it because they can’t afford the doctor visit or time off work.
Hopefully people remember this come election time.
43
amen
13
Is there a possibility that the cdc set overly restrictive requirements for testing so that people wouldn’t panic when they saw how many people were getting infected? Things appear to be changing now but I find the lack of testing up to this point pretty suspect.
19
@T
Conspiracy? I doubt it. More likely incompetence and cover-up because Trump fired the pandemic experts, so the test kits were shoddily built, and so they didn't have a way to test anyone.
16
So is the Times going to stop it's anti-China fear mongering, now that it's clear that the response of the Chinese government to the Coronavirus has been successful and greatly superior to what the CDC is doing? Is it going to admit that this shows why we need Medicare For All in the USA? And the need for paid medical leave for all American workers.
20
Just for perspective: Last year in the world there were 10 million cases of measles resulting in 140,000 deaths. And that’s a disease we have a vaccination for.
8
@Stephen
Measles is much more contagious, but COVID-19 is much more deadly. Which I suppose brings us to the same endpoint...
11
Trump's incompetence is laughable and his language hypocrisy regarding the coronavirus is not only laughable but also totally irresponsible. It baffles me that there are so many people still believe that he is "the chosen one" to "make America great again".
15
@BC
No, Obama was the chosen one.
Trump was merely a necessary reaction and correction to the excesses of the left.
And still is.
1
News flash. A CNN pundit declared the outbreak to be a pandemic. No data. No announcements by any health organization like the WHO but they are CNN sowing panic whenever given the opportunity.
2
@clarity007
The definition of a pandemic is an epidemic over a wide geographic area and affecting a large proportion of the population.
Which has has definitely been met by COVID-19. The only ones not declaring it as such are our oh-so-concerned-with-stock-prices American administration and WHO, whose head is apparently more concerned about World GDP than World Health.
19
@J Anders
Doubt that todays numbers meet the definition of an epidemic. 90% of all cases are in one country
Being that CNN is your all knowing source of information must be comforting
They're betting enough people forget about this by November.
They may be right.
3
Possibly not if enough of their loved ones die in overcrowded emergency rooms and makeshift isolation units, but who they will blame is largely a matter of where they get their news and what stories win top billing.
1
Is it possible that, without widespread testing, many American Coronavirus deaths can be swept under the rug with a simple pneumonia diagnosis as cause of death? I know first hand that autopsies are only required under rare and specific circumstances...
I hate to think this way, but I can’t help but wonder if our stringent testing criteria might be more aligned with Trump’s agenda of downplaying the crisis than with a supply problem. After all, the WHO offered us ample tests weeks ago.
16
@Jen Leigh
Good point. He is downplaying it because of the stock market.
Yesterday the market was down- not his fault. He said it was caused by the Democrat debate
Today the market is up- all to his credit according to him.
It's very like his pre election statement in 2016 that if he were to lose it was all rigged and that he would accept the results but only if he won. Then at his convenience it would not have been rigged. In any case he won and said the popular vote was rigged because 3 million kamikaze non citizens showed up to vote all in favour of Hillary. It's amazing how people are still following this guy.
3
Is the new coronavirus a threat? Yes, it is. But the media’s reaction to and reporting of it reminds me of an old rhyme from my childhood: When in worry or in doubt, run in circles, yell and shout. Wash your hands regularly, stay away from large crowds, and carry on and get back to work.
6
T Smith
I disagree. We needed the press. There was an information vacuum and people were hearing about outbreaks in China, South Korea, and Italy, and from our government - crickets. It was clear our president was restricting information from getting out to the public.
Today’s press conference, and planned daily press conferences, by infectious disease experts will go a long way to calming people and helping us prepare.
22
@T Smith
Great way to promote a pandemic.
6
If people are reading and learning they should not panic. A person who panics is the one that lacks critical thinking skills.
10
Trump's team is incompetent. Trump hates science and only cares about showing how great he, (he - only he) is. As a consequence, our scientific establishment has been handicapped and diagnostic tests that should have been used liberally for the past few weeks are only just now becoming available. People are dying because of the lack of timely testing. Also, a whistle blower complaint has been filed due to improper training of personel and the use of inadequate protective gear. Now we have community spread and deaths in the northwest. As well as spread in other parts of the country. And all Trump can think of is trying to blame the democrats. Never his fault. I am sure he could care less that Americans are dying due to his incompetence. As long as his hair looks good and he keeps his tan.
17
This is one of the cases that I feel extremely pity about language barriers... China has been fighting this novel virus for two months, and there are so much helpful information posting on the major social media platforms 24/7, people are using real-time information to manage to get through this epidemic. I don’t currently live in China now, but my family are, and with the enormous help of social media like Weibo and Wechat, I’ve been able to follow the epidemic all the way through and get tons of clear and useful information about the virus, not less than them. I wish one day maybe with more developed technology, languages are not a barrier anymore, and the whole world gets to share information together and have a much better understanding of each other’s situation...
I’ve been shocked to see many people till this week still have no idea about the basic information about this virus...Seriously, I don’t understand why government in North America acts to restrained on alert and educate people on the epidemic, in China you receive those information through all the online platforms, news, streets, tv, communities, and even trucks with loudspeakers...that makes sure even elderly people who live longterm in remote village areas are on the same page and know how to deal with this epidemic.
It’s not just a big ‘flu’, guys, sit down and do as deep research as you could,reduce social exposure and sanitize strictly. And really importantly, protect yourself and help each other out.
31
@Hannah
We don' need no stinkin' information. We got our Dear Stable Genius who takes care of everything and lets us know all we need to know.
1
I hope the White house can figure out the FATALITY RATE by simple division and multiplication. Total number of cases identified according to Johns Hopkins CSSE is 101 and 6 deaths which is very close to 6%. Trump and VP Pence cannot sugar coat these numbers. It is time they face the facts and ensure that we have test kits available and our population is tested quickly.
8
Unfortunately this is not that simple and simple arithmetic is not applicable here. We do not know how many undiagnosed cases are around, since we are not testing everybody with symptoms.Also at the beginning of epidemics ( as in US) it is very difficult to establish real mortality rate.
9
@Dr.MD
It is possible to get preliminary numbers from China, however. Here is a report from China's CDC just published in the Journal of American Medicine,based on analysis of 72,341 patients:
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/02/study-72000-covid-19-patients-finds-23-death-rate
Eighty-seven percent of patients were aged 30 to 79 years (38,680 cases). This age-group was the most affected by a wide margin, followed by ages 20 to 29 (3,619 cases, or 8%), those 80 and older (1,408 cases, or 3%), and 1% each in ages less than 10 and 10 to 19 years.
Of the confirmed cases, 1,023 patients—all in critical condition—died from the virus, which results in a CFR of 2.3%. The CFR jumped considerably among older patients, to 14.8% in patients 80 and older, and 8.0% in patients ages 70 to 79. Among the critically ill, the CFR was 49.0%.
8
@J Anders
"14.8% in patients 80 and older, and 8.0% in patients ages 70 to 79"
Should free up lots of Medicare and Social Security funds for you youngsters. Trump may have his own Medicare For All (survivors)...
Anyone who has read their Homer knows Cassandra was right....
7
@J Anders Some of us have read "The Cassandra Crossing as well..or seen the movie!
1
I have a friend whose cruise to Italy docked back in America on Saturday, February 29th.
No one met the boat to check temperatures or otherwise screen for coronavirus. Somehow that fact makes all these press conference reassurances less reassuring...
28
@J Anders
The new patient just announced in Sonoma County had just been on a cruise to Mexico that originated in San Diego.
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/10774534-181/second-coronavirus-patient-reported-in
3
So much dissembling, so little time. In a roundabout way, that's pretty much the 'official' line on the coronavirus.
In a sidebar story on the front page of NYTimes.com today, headlined "Sex, Sneezes and Hard Surfaces---How to Contract The Virus", much of the information given is highly inferential, even contradictory.
We find out that, yes, a person can contract the virus via touching hard surfaces such as computer or phone screens and airline tray tables, but that we shouldn't worry about infected imports coming from, say, China, because the virus "likely wouldn't survive the trip." The key word here being 'likely'.
Or another good one: Yes, you can get it be being in proximity to someone who is infected, yet asymptomatic. Just stay 3 feet---no, another expert says, 6 feet!---from an infected person.
And after they declare that you should be safe from a sneezing and coughing next door neighbor because the virus "doesn't travel through walls or ventilation systems", we are informed, "If you can smell what someone had for lunch, you're breathing their exhalation", which can spread the virus. Kinda makes you feel good about traveling on an airplane or sitting near people in the office lunchroom.
And then we end this dizzying day by President Trump declaring that "Campaign rallies are perfectly safe!"
No handwashing necessary.
18
@David Bartlett
"No handwashing necessary."
But brainwashing is apparently still de rigueur for Trump.
2
Most American's have access to the internet, right? Why not suggest American's work from home if they can for the next month? What's the harm?
9
@Michael
Our biggest danger is from workers such as food handlers and service providers who cannot work online.
12
@J Anders Yes but I would think that as long as you cook your food, it should be safe to eat, right? If simple soap kills it then surely extensive heat can't be good for the virus. Besides, imagine how good it will be for our planet to decrease the number of cars on the road by 50% if only for a month or two. Again, what's the harm in suggesting it? There must be plenty of Americans who can do their job using their laptop and cell phone. Even schools with all the online classes offered. Nearly every laptop has a webcam.
5
@Michael
"Cooking", for those under 60: Order delivery on your iPhone.
After all that criticism of China’s management of the Covid epidemic, I was fully expecting us, to show them how a modern, open democratic nation gets it done. Though not totally fair because we did have weeks to prepare and access to what they learned. Yet somehow, team USA seems to be doing a worse job.
36
@pigsy. I guess that’s what happens when Trump eliminates the pandemic response team and eviscerates the CDC.
11
Two or three days of watching the US Govt response to this, and it's already clear that what it is about to transpire, will equate to the carnival game "Whack-A-Mole". Pence and Co. are woefully unprepared, unqualified and ill-equipped to respond to this in a professional and logical manner.
This is the part of the show where the term "Amateur Hour" really comes to life.
This is not going to end well.
19
@Joe B
You're not being fair to "Amateur Hour".
1
Trump, Rush and yes, probably Pence and Hannity will all be dead in 7 years. My generation, Minnineals and Xers won't. Stop letting hateful GOP Boomers run the circus.
23
So, how much will a test cost the patient?
3
@Mark W. Miller
Depends. Are they one of the 27.9 American with no health coverage? (A number which increase by 1.2 million from time Trump took office in January, 2017 to the end of 2018.)
10
Don’t know the insurance situation in the States. I suppose if it’s declared as national wide epidemic, it would eventually be covered under common health insurance? That’s how it eventually declared in China at least, the entire COVID treatment is paid by the government.
1
@Hannah
No, there is no such thing as "common health insurance" in America. Despite our being the richest nation ever to exist on this planet.
3
And on top of this, we're getting our information from Traitor Trump and the three stooges (Azar, Verma, and Pastor Pence). Cut the funding for CDC, NIH, and HHS some more. Department of (War) Defense budget: $740 billion and growing by the minute.
17
Wow, that almost sounded like a normal press conference.
5
Vic
As long as our stable genius stays out of them, they should be helpful, despite Pence.
3
So they are claiming great credit for the travel advisories.
Think about not going.
Maybe you shouldn't go.
You really shouldn't go.
and now
You REALLY, REALLY shouldn't go.
My guess is that 98% of people in the US (at least those who don't rely on FOX and Sean and Rush for "facts") have been a few weeks ahead in making their personal and business decisions.
10
It seems as if those already infected with Trump Derangement Syndrome have a much higher propensity to panic and fits of snark at the mention of this virus.
7
@Mkm
Please, feel free to attend as many Trump rallies as you like.
The rest of us will stay home.
19
@Mkm TDS:
trump Deification Syndrome
11
Yes very true
1
Why does the headline not read: “‘Campaign rallies are safe to attend,’ Trump FALSELY claims”?!!
10
@Rosemary Malague
Because it is totally _unnecessary_ to add "Trump FALSELY claims".
"Trump claims" is sufficient - same thing.
1
Mike Pence is telling us to wash our hands.
I think Mike Pence is an android.
19
@Mexico Mike
I think the word you want is Replicant. Think Rutger Hauer in "Blade Runner."
2
@Magnaservei
"Replicants" were androids. But thanks.
Resources and attention should be in place to protect those who seem to be most vulnerable, the elderly.
Perhaps the distribution of masks and other protective gear could be given free to older people.
Also, maybe there could be a system set up so that older people would not have to go directly to the grocery stores themselves, but rather a task force could be set up to do their shopping for them so as to limit their interaction with others until the virus is more under control.
11
Ashkey
I am afraid that in America you have only your family and friends, and perhaps your local senior center staff to depend on. The government, nit so much.
8
Some glimmer of hope in an otherwise gloomy picture is being provided, I believe, by what seems to be very low levels of infection in counties with massive populations near ChIna-India and Indonesia. What seems to be significant for these S.Asian countries is that they lie largely in the Tropics where temperatures at the time of our N.Hemisphere winters are sufficiently high to limit the survival of the virus. Some diseases like cholera are, I believe, still difficult to eradicate in the slum-like living conditions in India's overcrowded cities so we have to be thankful for small mercies.
Normal flu' incidence decreases with the arrival of warmer weather here as March progresses so maybe we can keep our nerve? Africa too seems to be getting off mildly so far-perhaps it has on its side the small number of urban conurbations. Many still live in relatively isolated rural conditions where a sneeze literally has a long way to travel before becoming infectious!
Perhaps we should be encouraging a public spirit of reducing non-essential travel/association until we hopefully weather the storm
PS Is there any useful way in which medical services could focus on protecting vulnerable groups from infection since fatality rates seem very low for generally healthy younger populations?
2
@Edward Hogan
It's far too early to extrapolate the effects of weather or other epidemiological ways of suppressing the virus, because other than China's experiment with mass quarantine, the virus hasn't had a long enough transmission period in most countries to provide accurate data.
You do realize it's only been 8 weeks since the first cases were found? It's actually very concerning that in that short time COVID-19 has infected more than 90,000 people. And those are just the confirmed cases.
11
@Edward Hogan
"Is there any useful way in which medical services could focus on protecting vulnerable groups from infection since fatality rates seem very low for generally healthy younger populations?"
What a silly idea! In America we prefer to focus on those who can pay the most, when rationing healthcare or anything else. Where's the profit in serving the most vulnerable (unless they're rich)?
1
I do not have nearly the resume of experience that mr. trump or mr. pence have in dealing with major pandemics, but I trust and agree with mr. trump that holding rallies during the outbreak is safe.
7
@N8t And you believe black cats bring bad luck? My granny, born in the 1890's. believed that.
10
@N8t
Especially rallies for Biden. Go Bernie. Don't expose your voters to the virus. Feel the Bern; not the fever.
4
@N8t They have no experience and for the most part have no idea what they are doing. Further, the head of HHS is a lawyer. Fortunately, we have a "Deep State", otherwise known as career professionals. And after they each swear fealty to Trump by making believe he has saved us all, they can do their jobs and hopefully keep this situation from getting out of control.
10
And look who’s in that clip with pence. That horrible equally unethical friend of his who wants to ruin Medicare and Medicaid.
10
I’m thankful to live in Japan, where we take public health seriously.
My daughter is ecstatic- schools are closed for two weeks (and then spring vacation starts), and my university has curtailed non-essential work.
Most private companies have taken steps to reduce commuting time.
Of course, if you need to go to the doctor’s to get tested, that will cost about $20.00.
37
I just don’t understand why global travel restrictions couldn’t have been put in place at the time of the Wuhan quarantine. Oh yeah, I know why! Corporate profits matter more than the lives of thousands of people.
12
@JWC the banning of flights from China which was introduced in early February, i believe, by many countries seems from hindsight not to have to have been such a bright idea. its effectiveness seems to have been reduced by the ability of Chinese people to take flights to adjacent countries which allowed them in and then simply transfer to connecting flights to the world-at -large. We are led to believe that this was how the virus spread to Italy which had restricted such direct flights. perhaps someone knowledgeable can confirm and suggest a better approach?
I wish The NY Times would be a little objective with their Headlines. How does The NY Times know that the number of cases has slowed in China? Because China said so? Is their scientific data to back this up? Is this statement verified by the WHO or the CDC? Are we using basic principles of Journalism before a headline such as this is published. Hopefully, The NY Times is correct in the statement but I have not seen the verification to prove it.
4
Look, who really cares? You, and we, should worry less about the veracity of China’s reports and more about the lack of data and obfuscation right here at home. So far our policy has been “don’t test don’t tell “. Talk about lack of meaningful information.
22
Actually, in China, it’s been more than a month that real-time data information can be tracked through website, social platform, mobile apps, news conference etc. ...If you can read Mandarin... and tons of NPO and volunteer groups updating local real-time situation...
This pandemic really surprised me about how little the world knows about how things really are in China...Sympathetic, from both sides.
3
On the statement that the cases in China have slowed - The NY Times should remember that reporting lies is not only misinformation and plain old bad journalism, it is nothing more than gossip and rumor spreading. If that’s the case, why do we need The NY Times? Remember the basic fundamentals of Journalism 101 - what/who is your source of information?
4
@Michael Anthony I trust the NYTimes over trump and pence any day of the week.
3
The people dying from this virus had underlying conditions or were very old. They would have probably died from the common flu too. Many people don’t even know they have it. The stock market is up because investors know that this virus is more hype then harm. Not because the fed said something. If this virus lives up to the hype there is nothing the fed could do to stop the economy from sinking. And how come the headline isn’t Trump had the fed step in to help his re-election chances? The lefty media missed that line so far.
3
@Jim Yea, like the Chinese doctor who first identified the virus? The healthy 35 year old that's now dead from the disease?
21
@Jim
This is why we're worried. Here's the biggest study done to date on the mortality of this disease:
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/02/study-72000-covid-19-patients-finds-23-death-rate
Eighty-seven percent of patients were aged 30 to 79 years (38,680 cases). This age-group was the most affected by a wide margin, followed by ages 20 to 29 (3,619 cases, or 8%), those 80 and older (1,408 cases, or 3%), and 1% each in ages less than 10 and 10 to 19 years.
Of the confirmed cases, 1,023 patients—all in critical condition—died from the virus, which results in a CFR of 2.3%. The CFR jumped considerably among older patients, to 14.8% in patients 80 and older, and 8.0% in patients ages 70 to 79. Among the critically ill, the CFR was 49.0%.
8
@Jim
"The people dying from this virus had underlying conditions or were very old." This is just not true. How about the Chinese doc who first ID'd the virus -- he was only 35!!!
3
It is clear that the elderly are at significant risk based on the Washington State experience. Nursing homes have always been vulnerable link in our healthcare system. This virus is here for now. We need to change our strategy of where to deploy our resources. Chinese experience has taught us that most healthy people will do well with Covid. Unlike in Asia, nearly 5% of our elderly live in nursing homes. We have to put resources in those facilities immediately. We owe them that!
10
"In China, where the epidemic erupted and where the overwhelming majority of cases have been identified, officials continue to get the spread under control. They reported 202 new cases — the lowest daily total since January."
Really? And how do we know that given their previous coverups?
9
@dguet
As economic fallout from preventive measures grow, the cost/benefit analysis of telling the truth weighs toward the side of coverup.
It will happen here, too. In fact, watching Trump's two news conferences last week, we're already there.
8
@ dguet - I agree with your question. Apparently The NY Times is skipping the basic principles of objective journalism.
@dguet
More likely word is getting around that if you do not really feel so sick that you need medical attention you better not draw attention to yourself lest you will be quarantined for weeks and shunned by your friends.
I reckon many people just stay at home and do not mention that they are feeling somewhat off.
After all, it is becoming clear that in the vast majority of cases the virus runs a fairly benign course.
3
Coronavirus cases in the U.S. will far exceed the per capita rate in China. Their citizens fall in-line and have reverence for / fear of their government. There is no way the already sloppy containment effort in the U.S. will be effective.
29
And many of our neighbors have exercised their right to be armed. Scary times.
7
Well, I hope the virus is dying down in China.
My concern is, is this slowing the result of an unprecedented curtailment of public spaces and social contact or is it the disease running its course?
If it is the first reason then buckle up, because, in at least North America, this is going to get very rough, challenging and painful for many, many families and communities.
That is my biggest fear.
11
If cases of the normal flu were reported very year with such pearl clutching angst, there'd also be panic. But, we're used to the flu. We know people die, but no one has any idea of how many. The magnitude of the flu dwarfs this new virus. According to the NYTs, as of Feb. 22, there were at least 32 cases of flu in the United States, 310,000 hospitalizations and 18,000 flu deaths. 32 MILLION in the US alone. And, there's been no panic. Worldwide, some 650,000 are killed every year by the flu. If those numbers were trickled out, day by day, hour by hour, by a news media chasing a story, markets would fall worldwide every single year and panic would be rampant in every country. The corona virus is already showing signs of slowing in China, and may not amount to anything like what we already deal with every year. All this panic and craziness is just that: crazy. Let's keep some perspective.
5
@Ms. Pea
The flu has been circulating in America since September.
Coronavirus has only been here since mid-January, at the earliest.
And it's called a novel coronavirus for a reason. Most adults have at least some immunity to the flu. None of us have any to COVID-19 (except perhaps a few survivors of SARS or MERS).
And flu only kills 0.1% of those infected in America. COVD-19 is 2.3%, or 23 times as many. Just because the raw numbers of flu patients this year is lower than coronavirus patients doesn't mean there's no cause for alarm.
22
@Ms. Pea -- Sorry. My comment should read "According to the NYTs, as of Feb. 22, there were at least 32 milion cases of flu in the United States, 310,000 hospitalizations and 18,000 flu deaths.
2
@Ms. Pea learn math, the flu is case fatality rate, is .05% this virus is 2.3% fifty times higher, its hospitalization rate is astronomically high versus regular flu
12
Schools and colleges need to clean!!!
1
@Chrystal
Washington state has already closed 68 schools for cleaning.
2
There is nothing to prevent the virus from reaching everyone. No vaccine, no reliable isolation of infected people (because we don’t know who’s infected), no protective clothing. You can probably avoid some percentage of encounters with infected people by staying home, and you can wash you hands and try to not touch your face. We are all targeted by this thing. No one is safe. The Secret Service can’t protect you (yes, I’m talking to YOU).
11
There is a lot of unknowns regarding this novel virus. Ro is just a ballpark as the fatality rate. However, we can learn lessons from the H1N1 pandemic of 2009 that led to 60.8 million cases and 12.469 deaths in the first year period.
As a result, this novel virus is here to stay and possibly mutate into different strains becoming part of an everyday pool of influenza viruses. Therefore, efforts should be made on the development of a vaccine before next winter.
The real challenge is to find a sweet spot as far as infection rate control while avoiding having a serious virus recession.
2
Glad to hear Pres Trump tell folks not to panic. He’s right. Hysteria is more dangerous than what we know of the virus. And the more we learn, the more it is clear it is not as lethal as the nightmarish scenarios that have been posited. With the markets sensing confidence to problem solve rather than paranoid ramblings of Cassandra sky-is-falling, we will continue to live civilized, minimize exposure, close only the most problematic incoming vectors, and work to find at least a partial vaccine.
4
@Curious
The markets are responding to the Fed promising a big interest rate cut this week.
And Cassandra was right, you know.
12
I bet those who went to Trump in the past two months to implore that he get ahead of this (ahem, hoax) were either waved away or fired. Trump doesn't like messengers who interfere with his rigorous theft of the everyday American.
13
To paraphrase T.S. Eliot—This is the way the world ends—-
Not with a bang - but a sniffle...
14
Shouldn't Governors and Mayors of cities that have cases be encouraging major employers to have their non-essential employees work out of their homes? Many of big city employees have the capability to telecommute
Perhaps both states and city governments should set an example by having their non-essential employees stay home. This has been done with snowstorms and hurricanes. So there is a precedent. We don't have Washington's leadership and should not wait until things are getting out of hand
NYS capitol, for instance, seems to be a high risk currently due to the number of people who gather to lobby about the budget. They mostly come from NYC. This is a health hazard. This activity should not be allowed with threat of infection.
Similarly, should not the states and the large cities where there are cases be cancelling major events (i.e., games, museums, etc.)?
Government should be proactive. Many people don't have sick leave. Staying home should be encouraged by employers without penalizing employees' earnings. Many can work out of home. Governors could set a national example rather than being reactive. Some of us are lucky as we are not at risk of getting very ill and have sick leave, but others need protection. More progressive governors could let their work telecommute and strongly suggest that major employers do the same. At the end, prevention is less costly and help prevent an economic downturn
10
A large fraction of those that fall ill by the virus consists of medical staff. Is there any information on how long it takes for them to recover, and if or when they can report back to work again? What is the effect of drugs on their recovery? This is relevant for estimating the chance that the public health system is overwhelmed.
Only 20% of patients become seriously ill. If this applies to medical staff as well, could the other 80% continue to do their work, or not? They may be present in the hospital anyway.
Mathematically, the key point to avoid overwhelming the system is that the staff should recover faster than the disease spreads. In other words, limit travel (especially air travel), close schools, sport events.
5
Canadians are taking the situation more calmly. No panic shopping except Richmond, BC where more than 50% are Chinese immigrants.
After 3 years of lying and muddling by POTUS, this is what you have. Credibility and trust matters.
28
I think it's important that we know about the health of those who died. Were their systems already compromised, and exactly how? Names can be withheld, but it's very important to give details. I hear, for those in good health, this is a mild-to-moderate virus. That's not to say you should not observe strict self-care and follow the CDC guidelines. But it might reduce the stress level. I applaud the President and his close interaction with the pharmaceutical companies.
3
@J. G. Smith
A 2.3% mortality rate does not indicate a "mild-to-moderate virus".
Seasonal flu is 0.1%, or 23 times less deadly.
13
Didn’t the Chinese refuse access to the CDC in December last year? And didn’t the Trump Administration then impose travel restrictions from prone countries? And didn’t the Dems and media call him racist? Yep, that’s how it happened...
5
@skyfiber
The Trump administration waited until thousands of Americans had reentered our country after this epidemic broke out to impose any travel restrictions whatsoever. (On January 31st.) And there is still no testing of cruise ship passengers or most airline passengers.
And why in the world weren't we working on getting test kits distributed when we had the chance. Grasping to pin this on Democrats is truly desperate.
15
@J Anders why bother, when Dems will judge-shop to pose an injunction?
@skyfiber Thank God they refused the CDC. The CDC has done nothing so far but bungle the response in America. This after weeks to prepare. Oops, the tests kits are defective. Oops, we forgot to tell anyone how to manage the quarantine of those Diamond Princess passengers. Nah, no need to test anybody if they ain't been to China. That CDC? Following their advice, China would be in flames now.
8
Millions will die. Elderly. We are 81 & 84. Non productive, costly to care for when ill .. Medicare and Medicaid costs decline with death... the custodial care industry loses out. There’s no herd immunity in humans (yet) for this one. Millions are few in % terms. Will take two years to run its course. All of us are in danger. Quarantine makes little difference. Washing hands is good. But this one spreads many ways. The well are carriers - spreading what they carry. I gave to Zeke Emanuel PhD MD the model using farm diseased cattle: anaplasmosis, a bacterial illness spread by needle, too often treated by mouth, when needle will cure most beef. Ranchers feed tetra by mouth in the water, kill gut immunity and cause obesity in beef - sell faster .. causing and in cattle & in cattleman’s families and consumers. Diabetes results. The anaplasmosis model applies to Covid 19. Anaplasmosis is spreading in humans in Maine now. Covid is cured only by the gut microbiome now much damaged in many that eat livestock fed tetracycline to address anaplasmosis and push weight gain and veggies sprayed herbicide, fungicide, insecticide. Kill to grow, you get sick. Covid 19 pandemic will take time. Healthy may do okay. Unhealthy will need costly care involving positive pressure Oxygen and IV. The strong immune system will survive most of the time.
7
If you have elderly people around you, you should be really prepared.
17
I do not want reassurances from a serial liar or his toady of a vice president. I want to hear sane, sober, factual assessments from medical professionals. Then, maybe, I will not panic.
43
Why are we not doing more testing, particularly for surveillance reasons? We know that many of the cases can be more mild, but we don't know why. Patients in any clinical setting, not just severely hospitalized need to be tested. Test for flu and other respiratory first, then SARS-CoV2 if the latter are negative. If reagents are short, use sparsity and combine samples, then individual test if there is a positive. Sequencing viruses and using molecular epidemiology to identify clusters and how the virus is changing is a must. Kudos to WA for quickly turning that around.
11
I do not trust China's reporting of epidemiological data at all. After all, this is a nation that purports to have equal rights for women, and which claims it has never stolen American technology. It is in their interest to claim that they are winning the battle.
5
@Doremus Jessup, more than China. The CDC staff are professionals, and if an executive branch cooked the books, we have a free press in the USA all too happy to take leaks of the realty. Unlike China. Why, you don't trust the CDC?
4
So, do you trust Trump’s (Administration) data?
14
Cuomo and de Blasio:
Congratulations on your all-white male panel on the coronavirus. I'll definitely keep it in mind the next time I vote in NYC.
6
@MM
Who care what color the folks on the panel are. as long as they are the best in their field to fight this outbreak?
They could be sky blue with black spots for all I care. I only want them to b competent and skilled in their field.
Sheesh, only in America could someone make a race issue out of this situation .......
19
@MM
It reminds me of Trump's COVID-19 news conference. Anyone who has spent any time in the best US medical facilities knows that a panel of the top experts would not look like that.
9
@MM
Are epidemiological panels now subject to purity tests as well?
11
"Governor DeSantis added that the state is looking into waiving rules to allow out-of-state doctors and nurses to work in Florida temporarily if private hospitals experience shortages of health care workers."
Sure. Because of course they won't be dealing with cases in their home states...
18
Weren’t there a thousand American dead before Obama/Biden responded to H1N1? Yeah, I think so....
2
@skyfiber
No. Obama set up the Infectious Disease Team at CDC that Trump dismantled in 2018.
23
Trump is incompetent but so was (enter democrats name here).
3
Hey, it's okay. Pence is in charge.
11
China is starting to look like it's capable of containing the virus. The west, not.
19
I think the doctors in Wu Han are suffering the most, they don't even have proper masks and they're stuck in hospitals, they'll probably get Corona Virus as well, and when that happens, we'll all suffer
7
I would suggest eating with utensils only and stopping all hand to mouth eating at workplaces, homes and in other congregate settings until this situation passes. It is a simple way to stop germ spread in and out of the mouth.
14
I am caring for coughing and feverish children all day long. we are trying our best to keep up with the literature as it comes out of China and S. Korea-google translating case collections. All in an effort to use our clinical acumen to detect who might have this illness. I worry for my patients and their families and honestly my staff. We are minimally protected and no patients meet the very strict CDC criteria for testing (need to have traveled to one of the 5 main countries). It feels as if clinically we might be seeing this illness but you cannot know what you don't test for. There is a very odd attitude in the clinic-not of fear but of feeling the need to not seem concerned about this. It seems that staff is not worried and that we who are, are overreacting. This is doubly dangerous-I would want to be over protected and could only hope that this virus decreases its spread.
36
@Maria Saavedra
I find that to be a common reaction - not sure if it is very American, or just human - um, I am not worrying, don't make me worry/panic, everything's fine, what's your problem! But it goes hand-in-hand with many people not wearing masks or gloves when they want to, think they are being judged. I have decided, especially without good leadership, to make my own choices, use my own common sense and not for one moment care what others think. This is an actual pandemic. Serious stuff. Best wishes for good health ahead....
15
How many of the Republican base are over age 70? Or have underlying conditions such as heart disease or diabetes?
My guess is Trump doesn't care yet because all of the confirmed cases are in blue states. Let it hit a few red ones and his tune will change. Watch.
23
@J Anders
How many of the Democratic base are over age 70? Or have underlying conditions such as heart disease or diabetes?
Why should Trump or anyone care? This is an equal opportunity killer. Remember, not all "red" states are completely red; the population is mixed, as in "blue" states.
1
Stop this. Just stop this insane hysteria. It is a flu. The CDC estimates between 3 and 49,000 people die a year from ordinary flu. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/faq.htm#illness
Where has been the hysterical response to this?? Corona virus is not significantly worse.
But since it’s new and APPEARS to be SLIGHTLY more dangerous, the media acts as if the world is ending.
And destroys the world economy in the process.
Listen to me. Take off the mask. You are not going to die from this flu. Any more than you will die from any flu. It is a very minor issue. “But people are dying!!!!” Yes, many more from ordinary flu. Are you worried about that?
Just stop it. Take any zinc cold remedy at the first sign of illness, wash your hands, be careful with restaurant menus and on planes and in public areas. But you should only be worried about corona virus is you should be worried about any flu.
5
This is not influenza. They are different types of virus. While the flu is dangerous enough, COVID-19 is around 20 times more deadly. I'm not panicking, but I'm appropriately concerned and taking precautions. Those of us in high risk groups for developing severe complications should be especially vigilant and prepared.
42
@Mr. Little
America's death rate from seasonal flu is 0.1%
COVID-19 is 2.3%, or 23 times as high.
25
Mr. Little: I am SO glad you are not making health care decisions for large groups of people. Are you? Then Stop It. You are welcome to endanger yourself, but I think it’s pretty sad if you are planning to take those near and dear to you along with you for a very dangerous ride. Have a heart - let everyone else make their own decisions!
13
At least 48 schools in Washington state are closed for cleaning amid attempts to stop the spread of the illness, CNN reported.
9
The lack of information - other than wash our hands - is astounding. People are hoarding medicines and foods and other supplies already. Yet the stock market is all hunky dory again - what truly matters - and planes are landing all across the US from across the world. All large scale events are still going on as scheduled. VP Pence is in charge of all reporting about the virus but will we hear the truth?
Just exactly what is going on? What's the time frame? Do cases in the US jump as in other countries? How long will this last?
I know as little as 2 weeks ago not for lack of trying. Okay, going to wash my hands again.
20
This is a good resource to keep handy: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nCoV/index.html
4
Please stop the Fear Mongering . It’s time to Move On.
2
@Common Ground
So, its your position that it won't get worse, and that we should do nothing?
19
I think there are lessons to be learned from China in terms of protecting our first-responders and health care workers. In the beginning of China‘s epidemic, health care workers were dressed in some minimal protective clothing but photos over time show, as more people became infected, their protective clothing needed to evolve to entail head to toe encasement and many even began shaving their heads.
This appears to be a very contagious virus and I worry when I see these photos of our first-responders and health care workers with their arms, clothing, shoes, and hair exposed. I’m just an observer but it seems China learned early on that it had under-estimated the threat of contagion posed by this virus and changed the protective clothing/gear so workers are now wearing full-on biohazard suits. Perhaps that’s the kind of clothing/protection our workers need to begin wearing ASAP?
21
Every country other than America that is dealing with this epidemic has paid leave and universal health coverage for its workers.
How are Americans going to afford to stay home?
66
@NewYorkTimes - Why does your map not show the New Hampshire confirmed case? It was announced mid-day, and several U.S. map updates have gone up since. It was a NH hospital employee recently returned from the US. Are we waiting until the markets close before we cause the U.S. to appear in the top 10 of countries with cases? Is that how "news" works now?
8
NYT editors and journalists are experts in the use of words.
Please stop using the terminology of "panic" and "fear."
In most contexts they are stereotyped and inaccurate.
Your readership can make their own judgments. Sensationalism is irresponsible.
7
@Svirchev
I see. So, if "panic" or "fear" are occurring, the NYT should not report it.
9
@Svirchev So; listen to Trump when he says a vaccine is coming very soon; when he said it was a hoax;that it is a plot by Democrats to get him. Americans are dying; Trump is lying. But; not fear or panic? World Economies are drasticly dropping their projections for growth. The Stock Market jumped up because Traders(rich people) think World Banks will drop interest rates and they will make buckets of money.
9
I will say that the experience of being in NYC during 9/11 does give me faith in how New Yorkers will handle this. I think New Yorkers are aware that they are living in a quasi constant state of emergency in their everyday lives, and so this does not come as too much of a shock. Cuomo seems to be doing a good job and just sent a coherent, reassuring email about how to handle the situation, including a number to call if we feel sick. The NYPD, FDNY, and medical infrastructure got hard lessons on how to work together during 9/11. Nice work!
12
@Clarice - Yes, we can pull through, even with absolutely no help whatsoever from Washington DC. But we may have to be more proactive. I remember how we shut down all mass transit after 9/11. Not suggesting that for now, but all possible responses need to be on the table. And let's not forget our first responders -- medical workers -- including the EMTs and emergency room personnel who will start having to deal with a lot of cases and are sure to get ill in large numbers. We need to make sure they have what they need to protect themselves.
13
We’ll soon see whether the Ostrich approach to containment (“if I can’t see it, it doesn’t exist”) works at all.
It isn’t preventing spread or a 2-3 percent fatality rate (which turns to 13 percent or higher for its primary victims over 50), but it certainly seems to be working on the stock market.
Who are used to playing pretend anyways.
17
Trump is going to lose in a landslide in November. The US will be in steep recession, untold thousands will have died from the virus, and Trump will be focused on his image and himself up until the day of the election. That is, if he survives it.
17
Didn’t China gag medical professionals when all this started? Aren’t republicans doing the same? Won’t this spread the infection further and faster as people act on bad information?
22
Thank god I now know where to go to escape this pandemic...a Trump rally. (Not)
20
The fatality rate among Trump rally attendees is currently ninety percent.
8
Those who downplay the virulence of this zoonotic pathogen (bats to pangolins to humans) are grossly ignorant of the realities. This virus kills by damaging already compromised, diseased or unhealthy lung tissue and reducing blood oxygen levels until patients become septic and toxic shock ensues followed by multiple organ failure and cessation of respiration and the virus kills quickly in just days
Pneumonia vaccines will not confer immunity nor will flu vaccines as this is a novel pathogen which is between 4 and 39 times more deadly than the seasonal flu strains which already kill tens of thousands of Americans.
We can now only helplessly watch as our nation pays a horrific price for the gross incompetence and misfeasance and malfeasance of the Trump administration which knowingly and deliberately failed to heed to the lessons of 2009 H1N1, SARS, MERS & EBOLA epidemics and instead of increasing funding for pandemic preparedness at the federal, state and local levels, cut funding and disbanded critical leadership infrastructure and muzzled experts at the CDC and NIH and let political hacks make critical decisions for months.
Now the crisis is upon us and we have 1/20th the amount of ventilators needed and less than 10% of N 95 masks and bio-hazard garb needed and we have inadequate supplies of antiviral drugs and test kits.
POTUS will populate morgues and funeral homes while he claims that Covid-19 is all a hoax by his political enemies and the media.
36
@American Akita Team Now tell us the bad news!
6
@American Akita Team He never said it was a hoax. He said the Democrats talking points regarding his actions was the hoax. I'm pretty sure you know this but truth in this forum is hardly required.
1
Are there any Americans who are foolish enough to believe a word this president has to say about the coronavirus?
...within a couple of days [the number of coronavirus cases in America] is going to be down to close to zero.
-- President Trump's public statement/lie last week
27
@SalinasPhil "It's going to disappear. One day it's like a miracle, it will disappear,".
Too bad he wasn't able to so clearly see last week's market crash.
7
The biggest study (72,314 patients) of COVID-19 mortality to date has been by China's CDC. It found a 2.3% overall mortality rate, with that among older people and the chronically ill significantly higher.
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/02/study-72000-covid-19-patients-finds-23-death-rate
"Eighty-seven percent of patients were aged 30 to 79 years (38,680 cases). This age-group was the most affected by a wide margin, followed by ages 20 to 29 (3,619 cases, or 8%), those 80 and older (1,408 cases, or 3%), and 1% each in ages less than 10 and 10 to 19 years."
"Of the confirmed cases, 1,023 patients—all in critical condition—died from the virus, which results in a CFR of 2.3%. The CFR jumped considerably among older patients, to 14.8% in patients 80 and older, and 8.0% in patients ages 70 to 79. Among the critically ill, the CFR was 49.0%."
12
@J Anders, Only 2% of confirmed cases were children (age 0-19). Also, a very low mortality rate for kids. This makes me feel much better about my own kids.
8
Isn't it sad, at one point if the President of the United States got on television and warned us of something of this magnitude, we would have expected that he appoint experts and do what would be necessary to combat this.
Now When Trump goes on television, the first thing is most people do not believe a word he says because he is a pathological liar, appoints a man who has no healthcare background to manage this and tell us to "pray", while he touches his nose and shakes peoples hands on camera.
Then his party supporters come out and tell the world that this is a Democratic Party conspiracy to remove him from office.
Sad times indeed. We are in trouble.
43
@Annie
Trump also said that the best way to avoid getting the virus is to leave the room if anyone sneezes. He emphatically stated that, "If anyone sneezes, I'm out of there fast!"
Brave, brave leader. Makes me feel so much safer...
16
@Annie After his completely erroneous Wednesday forecasts about the infections "going to zero" in a few days (in total contradiction to what the experts told him was highly likely) and his stupid comments about hoaxes, "just disappear(ing)" and "a miracle", is it too much to hope that a good number of his followers have now seen that the emperor wears no clothes.
10
The uninsured and underinsured in the USA will wait until they are in mortal danger with coronavirus before showing up to the hospital. This means more infections, more cost, and more deaths.
25
@kramnot
And a smaller carbon footprint. Isn't that what we want?
1
if containment will slow but not stop contagion
it may cause more harm to economy, food supply etc
and more deaths than no containment
1
@jim auster
So you recommend we all go out in public for one big pox party to save the economy?
8
2 hours ago, Dr. Fauci, the head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID). said Coronavirus is now at 'outbreak' and 'likely pandemic proportions. I don’t know about anyone else but I don’t consider him an alarmist.
52
@Jace He's a realist, of which need many, many more in our government of ostriches.
11
Here in Switzerland, in order to contain the outbreak, the government has banned all events with 1000 attendees, including sporting events, carnival, concerts and so on. At smaller events, hosts need to register contact details of each attendee, by law. Each new case has so far been tracked to its source and hundreds of people - those who were exposed to carriers of the virus - are in quarantine. Also, the government refrains from closing schools, as this would only encourage the mixing of generations - something they’re trying to avoid, since the elderly (e.g. grandparents looking after children) are at highest risk.
25
@s.a.
Wow. Real governance.
2
Here is something to consider. On January 3 in China, There were zero deaths reported and 44 cases. Look at where they are today. That was 8 weeks ago.
Where will we be in eight weeks?
15
Pence wants to calm the nation's nerves? He should have not given Trump Junior's awful comments any kind of validity then.
13
For real information and not just idle speculation, try the latest article by Dr. Anthony Fauci, from the NIH's Laboratory of Immunoregulation, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2759815
"While the trajectory of this outbreak is impossible to predict, effective response requires prompt action from the standpoint of classic public health strategies to the timely development and implementation of effective countermeasures. The emergence of yet another outbreak of human disease caused by a pathogen from a viral family formerly thought to be relatively benign underscores the perpetual challenge of emerging infectious diseases and the importance of sustained preparedness."
10
J Anders
And our anti-science stable genius in the White House cut money for pandemic preparedness in 2018.
6
So no one in the Press seems to be looking at or writing about the National Security Council Office of Global Health Security having been shut down in May 2018.That office was meant to focus on exactly this sort of problem along with it's duty to also defend against another Anthrax type attack which was the reason it was created.
There is at least one article from April 2017 talking about how the Trump administration was unprepared for a global pandemic.
So how about explaining to me why the NYT is not covering this aspect of the Covid-19 story? It seems causal to all this panic and confusion to me.
12
"In contrast to the United States, where President Trump has played down the threat, Mr. Hancock warned that 80 percent of the British population could ultimately become infected, with up to 500,000 deaths."
Despite the hysteria here, you are aware that means that Great Britain could experience the death of 1.2% of its population.
In the worse case.
For a comparison, in 2017, 2% of the US population died from influenza and pneumonia complications.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/184574/deaths-by-influenza-and-pneumonia-in-the-us-since-1950/
So, when folks ask here why VP Pence doesn't start warning of mass deaths here in the US (or become alarmist like Sen. Schumer and his allies), it is because to do so would be false, inaccurate and misleading.
Americans will die from the coronavirus. In numbers equivalent, if you believe the UK. estimate in this article, to the percentages who died from the annual flu in years past.
Not pretty. But also not time to sow panic, especially for partisan political purposes.
4
@Jubilee133 Don't you think that increasing deaths in the USA by 50% or 100% is a problem???? Most people who die will go to hospital before dying, can our hospitals handle a 50 or 100% increase in admissions? Let's say we find drugs for treatment, do we have the drugs on hand to handle 5% of our population who get badly infected? We are whistling past the graveyard, IMHO.
4
@Jubilee133
You are misreading the numbers. The mortality rate for annual flu in the US is 0.1%
COVID-19's known rate is 2.3%, or 23 times higher.
16
@Jubilee133, 2% died? that's not what is says. It says 14.3 people out of 100,000 died of flu and pneumonia, way way way less than 2%
2% is 2,000 out of 100,000
6
For those who keep insisting on dismissing this by citing flu deaths, he's the issue: Flu has an effective vaccine NOW. Coronavirus does not. Millions of Americans who were vaccinated will not get the flu. ANYONE can get coronavirus.
22
@DReeck And it will probably mutate as it spreads in its vaccine free period. So there are no certainties on who it can infect, or how badly unfortunately. On the other hand some people who are infected and survive OK with mild symptoms may obtain some form of immunity to it, but this is also an unknown. It's all a big grey area at the moment. The only things that are working at this point are quarantine and social distancing behaviours where it's identified and where it spreads.
5
@DReeck And, health care workers are generally protected with a flu shot, and they are on the front lines here.
Seasonal flu kills tens of thousands in the US each year.
Why don't we have testing kits for flu each year? Why odn't we test as many people possible for flu viruses? Aggressive testing each winter could save so many lives.
4
There is testing for flu. And one thing that has stymied some docs for months was people who had bad flu weren't testing positive for it. They wanted to test them for coronavirus but under CDC guidelines couldn't if patients had no contacts with China.
Likewise, some docs had patients with unexplained pneumonia, but couldn't test them for coronavirus under CDC rules.
Now this is changing with states being given power to arrange own testing and set own criteria.
14
That’s called a flu shot!
8
Well, we do. A gazillion people are tested for influenza every year in the US.
Not sure where you are getting your info. Go to the doc with suspected flu, and you will have a long Q-tip stuck into your skull.
11
CNN says 100 known cases within US borders now.
6 deaths.
That's three times higher than the "about 2% die" claim.
Of course, that is because we have only just begun identifying cases. There were tragic circumstances -- called negligence & ignorance -- at the Kirkland facility. "No one knew they were at risk."
Still, 6% is higher than 2%.
What other surprises are coming?
17
@Maria Ashot. I think the 2% figure is high; let's hope so anyway. And it's not a coincidence that a nursing home is the epicenter of the fatalities. If it's like the flu, the death rate is 25x greater for people age 65+ than for healthy young adults.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html
1
@tanstaafl
I have been checking the calculations since the numbers have first appeared. In many places, the % was closer to 3%.
Iran was the only outlier with a very high % for deaths -- most likely because of decades of sanctions.
Italy's % currently approaching 3% most days.
South Korea has the lower percentage, probably because they are performing so many tests, they are finding more cases. That is in fact a helpful and reassuring strategy, but it is labor-intensive and obviously costs money.
The nursing home might have been better protected had testing been more rigorous & the current administration not dragged its feet for as long as possible. After all, coronavirus has been a front-page story in the NYT & on CNN for many weeks now.
Nursing homes would be an obvious place for infection to spread once allowed in. Staff at nursing home go home, see family, use transportation, shop at the same supermarkets -- handle the same currency.
Trump/Pence: all talk, little common sense. Next to no sense of urgency. They love being on TV. They have no time for anything else. "Oh, look, the markets are up! That's a relief: crisis over!"
We are merely at the beginning of the beginning.
4
The Trump administration had weeks to prepare for this that they squandered, due to lack of will, lack of reality perception, and lack of expertise because of earlier irresponsible health department cuts. Could have been preparing and distributing test kits, establishing protocols, communicating with health-care institutions, setting up labs and teams for epidemiology. Preparation was zero--instead making an absurd and baseless prediction that the virus would not come to the US. We have all been put at greatly increased risk due to inexcusable ineptitude. The US trails behind other western nations in our preparedness and response because of being idle while the virus circulated. Any lay person could have predicted the infection was headed to our shores via international travel. Trump and Trumpism willful ignorance and denial put us in this dangerous position.
28
@sf Simply not True. Travel restrictions were put in place early (for which the administration was called racist) and CDC has been on the case from the beginning. The rest is just politics, as usual.
6 people have now died from coronavirus disease in Washington state; King County buying a motel to house isolated patients
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/king-county-now-has-14-coronavirus-cases-including-5-deaths/
4
I really wish someone would test a random 1000 people here in Seattle and see how many have coronavirus unknowingly. We don't know the number of mild cases vs. severe which would give us some real perspective on it.
27
@Boggle
Specifically, an antibody test. They have already developed one in Singapore. That would help explain how many people have been exposed to it, and why children don't seem to be getting sick.
7
@Julian
Antibody test are tests of host immunity. They're not usually helpful for acute stage diagnosis - they're more useful for determining old infection or successful previous vaccination; not just the absolute level of antibody but its biochemical class.
These days, you can detect antibody down to the sub-nanogram level. But, it's more complicated than that.
As of today 3/2/2020, the CDC DROPPED mentioning how many people have been tested on their public web page of US statistics, and moved deaths off the standard display. They had tracked that until the other day. So much for transparency.
52
@Ricardito Resisting
Trump & Pence working their magic.
15
@Maria Ashot
Well, Trump did say at his news conference Saturday that there was a good chance the virus would "magically disappear"....
13
The people need to surround the Naval Observatory and the WH and demand change. We want change? Than hundreds of thousands of us need to surround both buildings.
For those who are unfamiliar, Pence lives in the Naval Observatory and trump lives in the WH.
3
Trump just tweeted that he is on top of this because he blocked all transmission from China to the US.
Well, as is not unusual, he is dead wrong.
Despite SeaTac having tons of flights from
Asia (PRC, Taiwan, Japan, Korea, etc), SeaTac didn’t implement screening until weeks after this started - that is, weeks after other airports had implemented screening. This is why Kirkland Washington is now the epicenter of this epidemic in the US.
Our congresspeople need to immediately create a plan so that every Washingtonian who is suspected of or is actually infected has ALL of their related medical expenses covered by the federal government. If they don’t people will hide their infections. Since the incompetence of the administration created this, they can and should pay for it.
22
I would like to suggest to how the NYT makes moderation of thread happen.
anyone asserts a claim of what the Covid-19 virus is, how it operates and any and all suggested numbers be eliminated from consideration.
No one has accurate numbers.
No one has knowledge on how it is spread, incubation period, reinfection rates or best practices for protecting against it.
2
@Mary Elizabeth Lease
The Journal of American Medicine just released its study of 72,000 Chinese patients.
https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1164/rccm.2014P7
Numbers are real. You just won't find them at FOX.
14
@Mary Elizabeth Lease Internet commenters spread misinformation? Who would have thought?
1
@Mary Elizabeth Lease
Have you even heard of the WHO?
I suggest you find their briefings, website -- and Bill Gates's article in the New England Journal of Medicine, available for free.
Quite a lot is already known. More remains to be revealed, which is why time, money & human resources are of the essence.
Have you heard of Bill Gates? Yes, he's an expert on the subject.
10
the bungling of coronavirus testing should put the nail to the coffin for any thought that the government can manage health care. In this case, the "scientists" and "experts" and the FDA/CDC bureaucracy are to blame. It is difficult for politicians with no scientific background to override their incompetence and correct the situation. There still seems to be insufficient availability of testing capacity even with the new ramping up. A capacity of tens of thousands tests/day are needed, not just a few hundred to thousand. And only private enterprise can handle this. PCR kits are manufactured by multiple research supplies with the ability to manufacture accurate and easy to use kits. Many of these manufacturers are posting coronavirus PCR detection kits for research use only on their website (For example, Invitrogen). Other companies are adapting automated influenza PCR testing machines for coronavirus (for example Cehpeid). The FDA bureaucracy is limiting their adaptation for clinical diagnostics and contributing to the spread of the virus.
1
@sh ... um, most western democracies have some form of government run health care (except yours despite Medicare for some) and most western democracies (probably all) are doing a better job testing, managing and communicating than yours. The one thing your country is doing better at than anyone else is private sector price gouging (see item on this about Amazon having to step in). This notion of the private sector doing better than government at everything is going to be the downfall of the U.S. Unbelievable nonsense.
13
SH
Pandemic Preparedness divisions in the CDC and NIH have had resources gutted by trump, our anti-science guy in the White House.
3
@ricardamund
the USA has Medicaid, Medicare, Obamacare, VA care, etc - there is substantial government sponsored medical care. But in all cases, except VA care, private companies manage the actual healthcare despite the government supplements. And cuts in the CDC/FDA had nothing to do with the lack of testing kits; the problem is fully due to government incompetence and inflexibility. Likely the same is going on in other countries. - apparently it did in China for a while. Low detection rates in Canada that has large Chinese and Iranian populations also points to a problem. The same goes for the UK
1
Coronavirus Outbreak Map . Com
track coronavirus
1
With nursing homes a hot zone for covid-19, the Trump administration's inactivity is truly throwing granny under the bus.
16
@qisl
How many of the Republican base are over age 70? Or have underlying conditions such as heart disease or diabetes?
My guess is Trump doesn't care yet because all of the confirmed cases are in blue states. Let it hit a few red ones and his tune will change. Watch.
14
qisl
Not surprising. The trump administration is already planning on cuts to Social Security and Medicare to pay for his reckless and unnecessary tax cuts to the rich, who btw, don’t need Social Security or Medicare.
7
All this reminds me of the excellent 1993 film Demolition Man. After multiple pandemics following AIDS, the fall of society and US, California is a single megacity where human contact is forbidden. No one shakes hands anymore and even sex is outlawed. Toilets are controlled by 3 seashells presumably touch-less.
Wesley Snipes is now a harden criminal and Sylvester Stallone unfrozen from his late 90s’ early 00s’ hibernation. Cars are autonomous and Tesla Truck looks exactly like those in this documentary. Now just have to get use to Taco Bell
5
"Church leader at the center of South Korea’s epidemic offers an apology."
Secrecy is paramount for South Korean sect linked to coronavirus surge. Many believers are in SoCal
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-03-02/secrecy-was-paramount-for-south-korean-sect-behind-surging-coronavirus-infections-including-in-socal
4
I hope nothing disastrous happens such as earthquakes and wild fire while we are dealing with this crisis.
10
Meanwhile, the President of the United States is caught in malpractice in office. His most extreme visible manifestations of this have been his verbal claims: it’s a Democratic Party hoax; it’s no a big concern; and, it will go away quietly via a miracle. The man is clearly paralyzed, not knowing how actually lead in a crisis. Of course, behind the scenes he had made the U.S. vulnerable by closing down government units that were set up to deal with pandemics, as well as by appointing Pence as a political filter for any communication with public.
Just when we have a crisis where straight forward truth speaking is required, our government is headed by a man who has no acquaintance with the truth.
God help us...
24
It is as I said it would be this virus is going through the states like Sherman through Georgia
oh God help and bless America. Further Pence has not the slightest experience in handling any major. God let it pass
3
@Art Spot on! I think the very best evidence of trump's sheer ignorance and incompetence came at his press conference last Wednesday. During his first ten minutes (before handing off the to Pence), he was almost incoherent; barely capable of reading his notes. Despite being repeatedly told by medical professionals that spreading in the US was pretty much inevitable, he goes on about "only" fifteen cases and ventures the idea that in just a few days there would be no cases in the US. He doubles down on these ideas at his SC rally and in interviews over the next couple of days, touting a Dem "hoax" and even proclaiming that one day a "miracle" would occur and the virus would just "disappear". I repeat, he was fully informed by expert opinion, yet chose to ignore it. Further, he makes rosy predictions about the future that could, and would, easily be shown to be wrong. And still, his followers--on these very pages--defend the man-child. Why?
What kind of a grown human being would take the path trump took here? Why does he have any supporters left?
17
in line with Trump's Surgeon General telling the nation not to wear N-95s—Trump is now boxed out from ever wearing one—and Pence's hand is in plain view boding ill for the grand plan to protect us from Covid-19.
"HHS Removed Images Of Condoms From HIV/AIDS Awareness Fliers"
https://khn.org/news/hhs-removed-images-of-condoms-from-hiv-aids-awareness-fliers/
7
Let me see if I have this right. The Surgeon General shames the public to stop buying masks, saying masks do not stop the virus, and shortages increase the risk health workers will catch it. The President says his political rallies are safe, and besides, the Democrats haven’t cancelled theirs — (so it must be safe?). Meanwhile, events are being cancelled, schools are closing doors, and flights are cancelled. That’s probably due to the the fact that the virus had been spreading and continues to spread in Washington and elsewhere before symptoms are even detected. Not to miss the boat, the New York Times posts several pictures of people in full hazmat suits in its article in which an advertisement for masks (in “limited supply”) appears fourteen (14!!) times.
18
@Daniel Kauffman
Most of us aren't getting those mask ads. (They come from Google, by the way, not from the NY Times.)
If you're seeing that many, it's because you've searched or clicked on so many articles about the coronavirus. Big data is watching, my friend.
16
@Daniel Kauffman
Capitalist economic power structures with an added evil twist of Extreme Conservative ideology makes for a noxious and toxic reality.
7
Although am not currently wearing masks, though have 50 or 60 from last yr on account of severe pollen allergies, can't help wondering if any of these experts telling us not to wear them have ever spent time on crowded NY subway car, or at New York Public Library or even Starbucks , havens for sneezing and coughing street people. I have heard coughs the likes of which I never knew existed at NYPL and Starbucks.
3
The virus isn't picking up speed. Identification is.
7
@Kerrielou
Or both.
15
@Kerrielou
that is pure speculation with absolutely NO information to back it up.
1
@Mary Elizabeth Lease I live 27 miles from a town of 8,000 people in northeast Oregon where a new case was found this morning. The entire area is low density.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's already everywhere. They've determined it's been circulating in Washington for weeks. All you have to do is look at FluView on the CDC's website to see it. For my region (10) visits for flu-like illnesses and pneumonia are flat while positive flu tests are rapidly dropping. People are still going to the doctor for flu and testing negative for all known viruses. You do the math.
5
I am vacillating between being really alarmed by all of this and thinking that the media is vastly over-sensationalizing it for clicks.
6
The media is not over sensationalizing this, they are reporting the facts and the facts are alarming. That said, just because the facts are alarming doesn’t mean we should give up and say our last prayers. It just means we need to sensibly modify our behaviors and expectations until this virus has run its course.
18
@Nomad
The coronoavirus has a confirmed 2.3% death rate. (per the Journal of American Medicine study that was just completed) That' is 23 times higher than the seasonal flu. The 1918 Spanish flu pandemic that killed 50 million people worldwide had an estimated mortality rate of 10%. There were only 1.5 billion people on the planet at that time - we now have over 77 billion.
So 2.3% of those who catch coronavirus dying is not just "no big deal". If 1/3rd of today's world populationi catch it, as with the 1918 pandemic, it would result in 59 million deaths - almost 10 million more than the 1918 outbreak.
6
7 billion, not 77 b.
3
Trump's fatal delay. After decapitating the US's epidemic response team, Trumps appointees reacted too slowly to the likelihood that the epidemic would occur here. No test kits were distributed to the states to facilitate testing. No early diagnoses were possible and now people are dying.
Trumps hoax is Trump.
61
@Cycledoc I hope people remember this at election time.
23
NYT today--"Supreme Court To Hear Case That Could Destroy Obamacare".
Nicholas Kristof’s NYT column says--- “the US is vulnerable with longstanding deficiencies in our health care system. We are the only major rich country without universal health insurance and paid sick leave…”
NYT– How to Prepare for the Virus -----
… “many people who work in minimum-wage jobs do not get sick days. Ofen they must work when ill, despite their contact with with the public.”
Per Wikipedia— “Paid sick leave is a statutory requirement --in most European, many Latin American, a few African and Asian countries…” But not U.S.
W. Post -- “Gig workers face the spread of the coronavirus with no safety net. Drivers for Uber, Lyft and delivery people for Instacart and DoorDash are independent contractors and do not receive sick leave or health-care benefits.”
27.5 million Americans lack health insurance. In other democracies NOBODY lacks health insurance.
How can the US be an operating democracy when we’re still fighting about this basic right, labeled as left wing socialist interference by big govt in our so -called ‘Freedoms’?
This is an issue directly affecting life, death, well being, and financial security of Americans. Yet candidates for president can get away with opposing HC for all, saying let's just 'improve' ACA. The GOP would destroy even the progress ACA has made.
57
If we had launced a classic public health surveillance protocol in the first week of January and used that surveillance to set up a widespread testing regime by the third week in January, we would have a handle on COVID 19.
We wouldn't have solved it.
We wouldn't have eradicated it.
BUT, we would have a solid understanding of the dynamics and the metrics.
Had we implemented good tracking procedures early on , we would, by now, have mapped the community transmission processes in most locales.
With grownups and scientists in charge, this is just a glimpse of "what could have been".
Alas!
50
For those who take comfort in the notion that the mortality rate is "only 2%", consider this.
The population of the United States is about 330 million
If 30% of the population is infected with COVID 19 (no symptoms, low symptoms, more), then the pool of infected Americans over the coming year may be about 100 million.
The 2% mortality rate would mean that 2 million Americans might die this year from COVID 19.
Two million seems like a non-trivial number to me,
Does the good Dr Pence think otherwise?
27
Recent data from the Chinese government set the COVID-19 mortality rate at 2.3%.
That’s vastly different from the flu’s mortality rate of 0.1%.
https://khn.org/news/fact-check-coronavirus-homeland-security-chief-flu-mortality-rate/
11
@Mary Elizabeth Lease
What we don't know is how the air quality in China (and the resultant lung damage) affected the spread and severity of COVID-19 in China. Ditto for smoking, which is highest among Chinese men and might explain why they died at a higher rate than Chinese women.
1
@Julian
Wuhan is not Beijing.
Iran's numbers suggest a mortality rate of 7 percent .
I just saw a press conference based in King. County Washington. 6 people have now died. I believe 4 were from Evergreen center and had underlying health challenges. In the conference, they did not specify the ages of the individuals who died and I’m not seeing updates at this website or other sites online.
Could someone provide a link?
4
I just got an email from Sen. Wyden pointing me to the Oregon Health Authority for... accurate, fact-based and up-to-date information.
the info was last updated Jan 31.
"How does novel coronavirus spread? Health experts are still learning the details..."
"How severe is novel coronavirus?
Experts are still learning about the range of illness from novel coronavirus."
again... we are on our own.
14
I think what people are forgetting is that testing, treating and isolating people because of the virus will require a massive outlay of taxpayer dollars. That, as we are so often told, is "socialism". Whoa.... scary stuff, huh?
16
As the country found out about the 6th death from the Corona virus, the President tweeted an article from ultra far right site Breitbart with the heading “The President Deserves Credit For Progress At Historically Black Colleges” with the text “Thank you!”
Since his return from India last week, and including during his press conferences on the subject, he has shown very little evidence that he understands what’s going on, or his role in all this is.
I think the first major casualty from this coming pandemic is already Trump's retreat from reality since he doesn't have the capacity to deal with the real world as it stands right now.
35
Well number 1 expert Dr. Fauci said it's likely a pandemic...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/dr-fauci-coronavirus-now-at-outbreak-and-likely-pandemic-proportions/vi-BB10E0nF
5
Several deaths of old people from China virus in Washington. This scourge is very deadly for older people. But deceiving "medical experts" like the Surgeon General and many "experts" who have written opinion pieces for the NY Times keep misleading the public by claiming that masks don't protect the public from this China virus. But they claim that the masks do protect medical workers, cops, and other preferred government people!
If they provide protection to medical people working directly with infected patients, then they will provide protection to everyone who wears them and encounters the disease.
Why are these deceitful "medical experts" so intently engaged to deceive the public and cause more of the public to fall victim to the China virus? The answer is obvious....there is a shortage of the masks and these "medical experts" want to deny protection to the public so that medical care workers, cops, and preferred government people can protect themselves.
2
There's a man in NH with the disease who visited Italy recently.
2
It's an employee at Dartmouth Hitchcock Medical Center.
1
If the virus has been circulating in the community for 6 weeks before calling attention to itself, meaning getting one person sick enough to seen medical help, then that is good news as far as the mortality rate is concerned. That means that the vast majority of cases do not cause significant overt clinical symptoms, so the seriousness of this virus will likely be similar to that of the seasonal flu.
Or actually less, since the number of fatalities worldwide so far is only 1/10 of the flu deaths in the US alone.
Which is not meant to discount the potential risk this infection carries. Merely to say that the reasons for the current worldwide panic should be revisited.
If every patient who has the flu and who gets seriously ill were reported with the same intensity in the news, the coronavirus would completely disappear in the noise.
Cuomo is right, the spread of this is by now inevitable. Just as the flu spreads every winter. Let's not panic, this is not the smallpox or polio.
3
Numbers to ponder:
If 30% of the population is infected with COVID 19 (no symptoms, low symptoms, more), then the pool of infected Americans over the coming year may be about 100 million.
The 2% mortality rate would mean that 2 million Americans might die this year from COVID 19.
Two million seems like a non-trivial number to me,
Does the good Dr Pence think otherwise?
3
@John B
Your argument re mortality rate is flawed. You THINK that only those people who have tested positive are infected. But we have no idea about what the number of asymptomatic infections actually is. If the virus has circulated for 6 weeks in the community, then that means that the actually number of infects is far, far higher. That will suppress the mortality rate down to less than what it is for the flu in general.
Not only Pence is praying that that reasoning is correct.
So is Trump, although to his credit, he doesn't understand it at all.
2
@Captain Nemo
No, I am using the mortality rates reported from China.
We don't have enough confirmed cases and deaths to have a U.S. rate.
So 2% is the best we've got until lots of Americans die.
3
@John B
You are still not taking into account the unknown number of clinically silent infections. That leads to a gross overestimation of the actual mortality rate.
Look at it this way: You would equally conclude that ALL car accidents have a very high fatality rate, if you were only counting the injured who either die on the road or come to the emergency room while not counting the 99% of fender benders where the drivers do not seek medical attention.
Most of us are not at great risk. Yet those who are--the elderly, the immune-compromised, health workers--will benefit (as in still being alive next year) if the virus is slowed down by public health and personal actions until there is a vaccine. Yet a strong response on this level will cause great economic pain; many small businesses will fail and individuals will lose necessary income. There's no right answer, given the social structure and medical system we have now. There is good reason for a lot of people to be very afraid, and others, who are objectively not at great risk of death or severe economic effects, can't deal with the uncertainty or worry about others. There's no containing this fully--not the virus, the economic effects, or the emotions. Be careful, be kind, and remember there's a lot you can do to make things better for yourself and others.
15
@Margaret and yet Trump says there’s no risks at campaigns or conventions. If illnesses soar, I hope he revises that opinion.
@Jace You can be sure he won't put himself at risk.
1
I stayed at an Airbnb in northern California this week with a woman who told me she was going to stop taking reservations because her brother, who is in the military, traveled back to the U.S. on a flight through Hong Kong 2 weeks ago. He was already slightly ill on his flight, and became much sicker after making it home. Then his son got sick, and his wife.
The doctors at the military base refused to test her brother because he didn't meet the CDC's criteria. He felt better at the beginning of last week, but by this weekend was sick again.
And still no one in his family has been tested. Perhaps we are no longer a first-world country? Because Cambodia is doing a better job of testing than we are.
89
@J Anders "Perhaps we are no longer a first-world country?"
Not a big news considering our poor healthcare and education systems also infrastructure which is falling apart, not to mention our old fashioned electoral laws.
3
With each new coronavirus outbreak and death reported, people become a bit more nervous. It is only human nature. If someone coughs, we back away and become a bit paranoid. We must try to remain calm and relax. But with the constant news coverage, it difficult not to worry. We must go about our lives and use good healthy and sanitary habits. We will get through this together.
1
Does anyone have a link to information regarding the total number of CDC tests performed to date? Thanks.
3
@annieb3
No. CDC drops coronavirus testing numbers from their website https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/2/21161693/cdc-coronavirus-testing-numbers-website-disappear-expansion-us
4
that's difficult to tell now since states have been allowed to do their own tests.
@qu Maddening! Thanks.
Shame on Donald Trump for talking down to the people who voted him in. Shame.
Dr. Matt McCarthy, a staff physician at New York-Presbyterian:
“I’m here to tell you, right now, at one of the busiest hospitals in the country, I don’t have [a rapid diagnostic test] at my finger tips.” “I still have to make my case, plead to test people. This is not good. We know that there are 88 cases in the United States. There are going to be hundreds by middle of week. There’s going to be thousands by next week. And this is a testing issue.”
“In New York State, the person who tested positive is only the 32nd test we’ve done in this state,” he said. “That is a national scandal. [...] They’re testing 10,000 a day in some countries and we can’t get this off the ground,” McCarthy said. “I’m a practitioner on the firing line, and I don’t have the tools to properly care for patients today.” (Video, CNBC)
58
I live in C Washington state. There are reports of a possible case in Colville school district. Schools are closed there and they are awaiting test results. For those who don't know, Colville is in the northeastern corner of WA, far away from Seattle. If this confirmed that means it could be widespread in WA. We are not immune from this in the US. Get prepared.
24
Has the U.S. stopped all flights from Italy, Iran and South Korea from landing in the U.S.? How about individuals who visited those countries and came in on a connecting flight? Is anyone tracking this at all? Are any precautions being taken at ANY U.S. airports? The lack of response and organization of any major government entity is absolutely stunning.
13
Went to Costco today to get my regular items: eggs, veggies, almonds, EVO. Of course, I ended up buying other things, salmon.
This is Monday, 10:00 AM. People were buying pallets of toilet paper, water, coffee. The lines were 7 deep. Cashier said it was like this over the weekend. Someone in line wondered why it was so busy on a Monday. (!!?)
17
@Just Wondering ---I'm guessing that person watches only Fox News & saw Trump say: "It will magically go away when it gets warmer".
4
@Just Wondering
Our store here in northern MD had empty shelves today.
The cashier person was exhausted this morning after the deluge over the weekend.
4
@Just Wondering
Funny how everyone reacts differently.
Where we are, supermarkets take online shopping orders and deliver to your home - delivery is free on orders over about $50.
Yes, I did do a bit of prepping; bottled water, dried oats and pulses, canned fruit, meat and fish, energy bars, chocolate, UHT milk, dried fruit, toilet paper, household meds, torch batteries etc.
I don't know what surprised me more - that I actually did this or that it all arrived. Everything was in stock and available.
From another reputable news site (The Oregonian):
"Ettore Palazzo, chief medical officer at Evergreen Health in Kirkland, Washington, said another person at the nursing home, a resident of Snohomish County had also died, bringing the total statewide death toll to six."
Six deaths. Unknown numbers of infected, due to he feds' bungled response and lack of testing capacity.
And while all this was happening, Trump was holding a news conference where he announced that he didn't know before that people die of flue and that ALL IS WELL!
18
Just wondering if the woman in NYC is self quarantining or if there is security there ? Her husband as well ? Does the building they are in share ventilation ? If I lived in the city , I’d want to know...
4
@Frank In CT Security? You think this is China? Honor system. I just hope that they are doing right by the food delivery folks with respect to precautions.
4
Campaign rallies "still very safe" to attend says know-nothing Trump. Honestly, he will stop at nothing. He has no idea who may be infected at this rallies.
14
Just a thought:
With most of the worlds vaccine manufacturing and/or the raw ingredients needed for vaccine production, wouldn't this be a perfect time for China to take Taiwan - while the US and the rest of the world are in the midst of a growing epidemic - soon to be pandemic?
1
China can take Taiwan anytime, even without the virus. The rest of the world would complain for a while but nothing else would happen.
4
@Helleborus
One thing is certain, virus or not, China will take over Taiwan before 2035!
The United States is no longer the worlds "Hype-Power" and is only a Super-Power in name only!
Wasn’t it less than a week ago Trump went on national TV to say there were only 15 cases in the U.S and soon that number would be zero?
24
@Mark he says a lot of things. Any more it's just easier to tune Trump out.
8
So 6 weeks in the US undetected because CDC won’t test suspected case unless they suspect it’d be positive. That’s a week before Hubei was quarantined and 2 weeks before flights from China cancelled.
American newspaper and NYTimes comments assailed China for delayed reporting and how Chinese/communists always lie, cheat, save face and other stereotypes all the while cases in the US wasn’t being reported. I wonder how many of the deaths from flu these past 6 weeks were actually COVID-19 but just recorded as death from flu induced pneumonia because CDC refuses to test?
Let’s hope the actual death rate is no higher than the flu and hospital don’t get overwhelmed which was the case in Wuhan.
25
@AmateurHistorian - There is no reason to believe that the rate of transmission will be any less here than in China. It's just science. Totally predictable. At a certain point they took draconian measures, like quarantining whole cities. That appears to have gotten things under control there (if we can believe their numbers). We'll probably have to do something similar here, or at least cancel mass gatherings, like big political rallies, basketball and hockey games, etc. Better to do that sooner rather than later.
6
Check the recovery rates for Corona virus on the Johns Hopkins website. Then calm down.
4
@skyfiber 45,393 recovered, 3,048 dead, 40,814 still ill. Those aren't particularly attractive numbers.
24
If you are scared to drink a Corona beer then you sure don't want to run the risk of entering a Voting Booth. Stay at home tomorrow.
19
@Thomas Payne - I voted last night around 2 a.m. We vote by mail here. I had the option of putting my completed ballot in the outgoing mail for the postman or walking down the street to drop off at the ballot boxes all over town. I did not encounter a single person dropping it off. It was cold last night. It dropped into the high 30's :))
4
@Thomas Payne In Colorado, we never have to see the inside of a voting booth, unless you want to. We vote by mail. Easy, with a complete paper trail in case Russia attacks our electoral process.
1
I'm honestly more afraid of the implications of the virus, such as mass panic and a run on essential groceries, medications, businesses closing and other days to day stuff we take for granted rather than actually getting the virus.I'm honestly more afraid of the implications of the virus, such as mass panic and a run on essential groceries, medications, businesses closing, and other days to day stuff we take for granted rather than getting the virus.
536
@Adil
"m honestly more afraid of the implications of the virus, such as mass panic"
The one reported case in New York already has created a run on some supermarkets.
In all those 50's sci-fi movies with hundreds of variations of alien invaders, the aliens might have been fictional, but the related scenes of mass panic in all of them were real reflections of what will happen in a real crisis.
38
@Adil
Taking an 11% hit to one’s nest egg as a result of panic isn’t any fun either.
69
@Adil yes. I can see your view: inconvenience versus widespread sickness and death. Tough choice.
44
Democrats need to stop the politics. First they complain when Trump orders the travel ban and quarantine...now they complain he isn't doing enough. They need to stop. Their big impeachment hoax was going on...I don't see that they were paying attention to any of this. There is no need to panic or hype this...the media has the world in a frenzy...not necessary. Calm down folks...stop the politics...and let the administration working with CDC and WHO handle this.
9
@Tom The CDC fundamentally miscalculated when they proposed ridiculously strict testing criteria that were only modified last Thursday. Detected cases will skyrocket in the coming days with unpredictable reactions from ordinary people and government officials alike. The people in charge are not instilling much confidence in the public. This is a real danger.
15
@glorynine Thank goodness China did not accept CDC advisors, otherwise this thing might be more global than it is already.
7
Yet again, blame the Democrats. It’s always someone else’s fault.
4
In a few days' time, Americans will likely learn that the virus isn't deadly. If only they could control their emotions and not panic. They should take everything the media says with a grain of salt and wait for the full facts to emerge. In other words, do their own fact checking using common sense.
8
Thank you for your reassurance Dr. AACNY, but the American public understands the fact that thousands have already died from the virus, and that its mortality rate stands at about 20 times greater than the flu. Not to mention the alarm in world health organizations to the rapid spread and trend indicating that it will become a full-blown world-wide pandemic.
23
@AACNY
Of the mere 88 detected cases in the US, two already resulted in death. Any belief that we will find out it is “not deadly” is already soundly refuted.
13
We don’t really know the mortality rate—the Chinese data is probably skewed by the poorish health and smoking habits of a lot of Chinese men—but yeah, it’s absolutely silly to claim that this virus isn’t dangerous.
I’m also fascinated by the craziness of “ignore the media, do your own fact-checking using common sense,” as though “common sense,” were science and we were gonna run read all the scientific papers and data that would somehow, magically, arrive on our doorstep sans media.
14
Perspective, there were nearly 40,000 deaths in US last year ...from motor vehicle traffic crashes. And yet, I saw someone driving with a mask on while talking on their phone.
100% of Americans will die at some point during their lifetime.
8
There is an extremely irresponsible way the media is presenting data.
I am begging the NYT to stop fear-mongering for ratings.
Completely agree that the public needs to be informed but these scare tactics about “widespread” deadly, out of control are scaring the heck out of people and wreaking havoc in communities, depleting goods off of shelves, etc.
The simple fact is that in the great majority of these cases it’s a cold/flu illness which people recover from.
The world is not ending. The reporting on good hygiene is super-important, but scaring the world and making us think the apocalypse is coming is in my opinion more political in nature. I despise Trump and don’t want him anywhere near the Oval Office come November, but I cannot help but feel the media throwing fuel on the fire is trying to damage the current administration.
Please again stop the fear-factor and report more responsibly. Every one case gets reported and it’s doing nothing but creating more stress and fear.
2
@Robert Bayer
Logically, it's hard to take that position seriously when the rest of the world is treating the virus as a pandemic.
22
how strange .. how strange .. the country with the highest military expenditure in the world to "protect" its citizens, cannot find the money for creating a free universal basic health coverage.
164
@dan
Protecting places in Europe like Milan costs a lot.
You can thank us later.
Thing is.... the US military keeps its bases in Europe to have easy access to the Middle East. Ask those soldiers who got injured in battle and were returned to a hospital in Germany, not the US.
And guess what: Europeans actually pay quite a lot for that infrastructure as well.
22
Yes, it is a mystery.
2
Ok, Mr. Trump: I suggest you walk down into that adoring rally crowd and shake a bunch of hands. Hang out with your people; pat some backs, kiss a baby's cheek, wave to the masses as you shake a slew of outstretched hands. Surely that would be fine by you? Yes? A bunch of wound up, sweating, chanting people in this country ought to be a completely safe bet, according to you, so go ahead and set that example to the citizens you are supposed to be reassuring and governing with a level and sound mind. I dare you.
64
If Princess Diana did it, so should the leader of the free world. Takes courage and empathy. Donald Trump lacks both.
2
I read that there's a big uptick in purchases of guns and ammunition. That scares me more than the coronavirus.
20
The incompetence and mismanagement of this Coronavirus Pandemic by Trump et al should have been expected. The hurricane disaster that occurred in Puerto Rico and Trump's incompetence in dealing with that disaster foreshadowed what has come to fruition in this current crisis. Three weeks ago preparedness plans and training for a pandemic from the Coronavirus should have been implemented.
Of course funding for the deep state must be deeply cut because who knows what those evil people in the CDC, NOAA, EPA etc etc are doing!
9
By Trump?? Are you joking? He is doing just fine and this virus is NOT his fault. Blame China
1
@Nycdweller I think Ok Joe is talking about the management issues here. China has its responsibilities, but it's perhaps not in charge of the situation here.
8
@Tracy
Exactly!
The budgets for a large number of agencies charged with protecting the environment we ALL live in, have been slashed by 25% or more. Why? Because deep state conspiracy ignoramuses have taken over management positions appointed to by Trump because Trump makes loyalty appointments not competency appointments.
5
As of 11:30 am here in Seattle local health officials are reporting six deaths due to coronavirus, five in King County and one in Snohomish County.
10
People are panicking and becoming hysterical. The idea of runs on grocery stores and pharmacies is absurd. I have friends who are driving around with respirator masks on when health officials tell us only to wear these when sick. This time Trump is being a voice of reason with his pleas just to calm down. Unfortunately, he's the boy who cried wolf and nobody believes him.
6
What we desperately need is transparent and commanding leadership at the top. What we have is an impeached president under numerous clouds of criminal behaviors and someone intent on hollowing out our best civil servants.
10
Trump and Pence are making the same mistakes Xi made early on -- play it down, nothing to see here, all under control. Until it wasn't and China quarantined 35 million people. How will Trump react when death rates explode, there is a run on hospitals? Quarantine the Northwest?
13
China first reported news of a virus on December 31'st 2019. Since then the news snowballed with constant updates, personal stories, videos and pictures.
Trump has had a lot of time to get on top of this. Instead he golfs, tweets, lies and manipulates.
https://trumpgolfcount.com/#page-top
Many of us knew from the beginning that Trump is a dangerous person.
Unfortunately I suspect the mismanagement of the coronavirus crisis will hurt a lot of Americans personally.
20
72 hours since Trump downplayed the virus in the US, called it all a hoax and touted his great leadership for having no deaths in the country and only 12 cases (he omitted the cruise passengers he let into the country against the advice of the CDC).
Since then, we've had 2 deaths, and we're now up to 70 infected with more showing-up across the nation daily.
The only hoax is this President.
14
@Mark He did not call the virus a hoax. Fake News. He called the misrepresentation of his response the hoax.
1. Folks: Coronavirus covers various viruses. Since the media isn't honing in on this, lets do it for them. This is the COVID-19 virus.
2. Since it's obviously not a problem in the US, anyone who has COVID-19, please go to the oval office and make fun of the Russians. Then have Lavrov walk in ... and send him back to Putin.
3. Remember who allowed COVID-19 in the U.S. - Trump. He fired the pandemic people put in place by President Obama. Trump fired them all.
"Trump fired the pandemic response team. In 2018, the government's entire pandemic response chain of command was let go. Trump shut down the global health security unit within the NSC, and the DHS epidemic team was also pushed out. No one was ever replaced." No link needed, this is all over the internet but Fox/Sinclair won't carry it because they need to keep it hidden from its viewers.
9
We have been lambasting China for their handling of the coronavirus. Let’s see how our free and democratic system fares in containing this.
9
@You Know It We're off to a rocky start, with no working test kits right out of the gate. How did that happen?
There is no "containment" after we left the barn door open for 6 weeks (since China's first report).
All we can do now is protect the most at-risk, and, if the CDC will get working test kits distributed, test ANYONE suspected of having been in contact with known infected people. And wash your hands, avoid crowds, sneeze into your elbow, no kissing, no handshakes, no touching your face, and good luck.
2
So this is the same CDC organization that was in place for the Obama, Bush, Clinton, etc. while Saars, etc. was happening?
Yet somehow, now with Trump, all of a sudden the CDC has changed into some nefarious organization and is somehow doing something different?
Give me a break!
2
@Paddy Coburn He fired the whole Pandemic Response team, and their chain of command, and defunded the CDC.
3
Thankfully, one day there will be "a miracle" and the virus will just "disappear"...
6
Puts a new meaning on the phrase, …...about to go viral.
4
over 100 cases in France so far
6
Live Seattle press conference just finished
Total 6 deaths,
6
6 deaths in Washington. 18 confirmed cases. Only testing a couple of hundred a day (better than 1 a week). This has clearly been mishandled in Washington State. New cases linked to the first case from mid January. Are health care workers and emergency responders taking proper precautions?
6
Has it been mishandled by the state or the CDC? Until last week tests were pretty much handled by CDC and only under its criteria , which pretty much meant only people who had been to China or knew someone who had.
8
Under Trump's leadership (or lack thereof) plus the total disregard for science and the experts within the government who specialize in disease control, I would liken America's effort to contain Ccoronavirus to that of a burgeoning banana republic. I predict America could be as badly hit as China. The handling of the first cases was totally chaotic and I don't see it getting any better. Good luck America!
10
trumps mission of reducing the United States to a third world country is moving along swimmingly. He has already diminished our standing in the world with his incompetent raves and his failing to recognize the merits of those efforts to address the many global problems that threaten us today. And, his latest handling of the coronavirus, thinking he can wish it away and his appointment of a man who is the antithesis of rational thought when it comes to any scientific question just continues to pile on the indictments he will, hopefully, face if there is any justice in the world. But, nothing he has done can compare with his silencing of the scientific community at a time when information is critical to our fate dealing with this virus.
10
France has ordered that all indoor gatherings of 5000 people or more be cancelled. To try to contain the coronavirus in the US, the Democrats should show responsible leadership by replacing large political rallies with more modern methods of communication that do not involve packing thousands of people into small enclosed spaces. Trump saying that campaign rallies are safe does not make them so...
7
Unexpected benefit of the COVID-19 threat: lessening of primary environmental pollution of manufacturing, aircraft, automobiles, buses, motorcycles, cruise ships, yachts, military training, Formula racing, electrical generators, dune buggies, celebrity limousines, perhaps offset by stay-home BBQ smoke, lawnmowers, home heating/cooling/treadmilling.
2
Over the week-end, I read an op-ed that mentioned the FDA was reporting, as a result of Covid-19, (a) shortage(s) of medicine here in the states. So I did some digging and found out that the FDA had contacted almost 70 suppliers, to see if alternatives could be procured for drugs/ingredients/sources.
The bad part was that every single one of the suppliers contacted by our Government was in China - which the op-ed failed to mention!
People talk about a vaccine being ready in 12 - 18 months... I'm still waiting for them to come up with a vaccine for MERVS - so I am not going to hold my breath for a Covid-19 vaccine. (Plus, since most of our vaccines and the ingredients are made in China - I don't see a reason why China would divert a limited supply of vaccines to the US during a World Wide Pandemic!)
Any limited vaccine that does come to the US will be reserved for Doctors/Nurses, Military, Politicians, and the very wealthy!
So let's say that Covid-19 fizzles out. My prediction, which is based on what the experts have been saying for years and years, it is only a matter of time before a serious pandemic hits and we won't be ready!
What I find sad is the number of people who don't even know what the CDC's job really is and that so many people are quick to point fingers and place blame.
If you want someone to blame, take a good long look in the mirror, especially if you, your children or loved ones are not up to date on all recommended vaccinations =
Darwin Awards!
2
It seems this virus is more transmissible and deadly in China as compared to other countries where most victims are over 70 and w pre-existing conditions. Any thoughts?
1
Um time of outbreak and if you have the flu you die of pneumonia or meningitis. So called something different
Did anyone see Trump flash a Cheshire Cat smile as he commented on congressional intent to appropriate more than the $2.5 billion in funding requested to combat the disease? That smile betrayed his glee as the thought of his cut in appropriation dollars flowing into the coffers of Trump Inc.
Coronavirus is a windfall gift for Trump as he continues with his looting of America.
5
@Charlie Wow, mind reading has now morphed to expression extrapolation. Massive TDS outbreak.
I am currently traveling abroad, returning from New Zealand and I have observed a huge problem with way Airlines handle passengers that could serve as a vector in spreading this disease. This is the way boarding passes are handled. In the two flights so far a gate person takes the ticket, handles it and then scans it before handing it back to the passenger. If that person has the coronavirus, the virus may be on the boarding pass and then contaminating the hands of the gate person who may then pass it on to the next passenger by handling their boarding pass so on and so on. This process is exacerbated by the inability of hundreds of passengers to wash their hands on the plane.
A better process would be for the gate person to have the passenger scan their own boarding pass with the agent then wiping down the scanner between scans. Addressing this disease must include examining processes such as this one for the risks they pose.
19
The fireman in the photo beside the patient is not wearing protective gear and looks to be standing closer than six feet. If our first line of defense doesn't adhere to safety protocols, we face devastating consequences. Could it be there are no protocols in place because the CDC has been seriously underfunded? And sadly, shouldn't common sense not curiosity rule our first responders?
26
@Debra Exactly what happened at Travis AFB in CA. No training, no protective gear, no preparation, and there were, and are, many workers and employees in various service jobs (food, janitorial, etc., ) who had no clue what they were being exposed to. And they were NOT tested! Then they went home to their families, friends, shopping, etc.
Without a "yuge" number of test kits available for anyone suspected of having been in contact with the infected, there will be no "containment" as we won't know the scope of infection. We're beyond the "first phase".
I read that there is a shortage of anti depression drugs. A lot of these drugs are manufactured overseas. There's all sorts of indirect complications that cause ripples through society and it also affects other groups like the ones who take anti depression medication.
6
Much like “Any Competent Adult in 2020”, any vestige of a plan to deal with/prevent further outbreak of the virus would be an improvement over status quo.
There is value in containing it, as demonstrated by China and Italy.
Trump’s comment about his rallies being safe is really dangerous ( not sure why I am surprised). It is so out there, given that NCAA and other organizations are evaluating whether to cancel games/ perform behind closed doors ( even Saudi Arabia limited large groups), maybe it will become clearer to all that he is not to be believed and can’t lead this country.
12
One of the main tasks as a physician is to reassure our patients. Many of my patients have the flu this season, and they come into clinic with the exact symptoms of COVID 19. Unfortunately our large government funded clinic does not have any way to test these patients rapidly. I'm sure there are thousands of clinics across America that are in the same situation
So, what do us physicians, NP's and PA's do to reassure our patients?
The American healthcare system is not set up properly for this pandemic.
The CDC and WHO websites are not very helpful either.
33
Based on the difficulty of identifying infections so far, with time lapsed before symptoms and a positive diagnosis, containment would be a challenge, esp in
closed, crowded environments.
I am somewhat surprised it hasn’t been worse, given that many of those known to be infected travelled by plane, passed through several airports, etc...
Which leads to the other likelihood that many could be infected without falling severely ill.
10
I keep hearing about “vulnerable” and “at risk” populations. Please bear in mind that those of us with anxiety and depression are at risk too. I live in Portland, OR. It’s panic here. It’s everywhere — paranoia mixed with overwhelming sense of dread. Yesterday at work a supervisor mentioned that a resident (I work at a residential apartment complex) said he was frightened because I coughed a few times during my previous shift. The resident asked the supervisor to “keep an eye on me.” I was profiled because I have allergies. What I’m saying is that all of us should consider the effect our approach and the media’s approach have on mental health. We should be protecting ourselves and each other. All of us matter. Mental health is a medical issue. We’re vulnerable too. We are at risk. Please, calm down for the sake of neighbors who struggle with health issues you can’t see. This goes for you too, NY Times. You use the word “crisis” in every article about this virus. It’s enough to make me sick.
13
It appears that people are paying more attention to the coronavirus outbreak than the Democratic presidential race. Or at least they are more concerned about this than the race. The news reporting is constant and is in the forefront. Everybody is talking about this and taking it very seriously.
We cannot affect the race but we can affect the flow of the coronavirus. It just seems to keep spreading and hopefully there will be test kits available soon. This will alleviate some fears among our citizens and give some peace of mind.
2
From https://www.democracynow.org/2020/2/27/coronavirus_covid19_us_response:
"What we should be doing right at this moment — the most urgent thing we should be doing — is testing every single pneumonia patient that is hospitalized, because if there’s likely to be a sneak-through of this epidemic, it’s going to come through as a pneumonia patient. It’s going to be diagnosed as flu or some other cause. And ... COVID-19 will break out in the hospital ward. ...These outbreaks really explode when they hit one of two things: a religious site, where you have large concentrations of people coming in for a religious festival of some sort, or a hospital. ...If the healthcare workers aren’t really on their toes, really alert, thinking “what if,” and they don’t have the right protective gear, then as they examine that patient, they become infected. And so, this is our problem right now.
Now, this particular case in Northern California is very worrying, because the individual lived in a rural area, was not a traveler, didn’t know any travelers, was a local worker of some sort ... 61-year-old male, and was in various health facilities getting misdiagnosed. And it was the health providers themselves who were saying to the Public Health of California, which was in turn saying it to CDC in Atlanta, “We want this person tested for the coronavirus. We think that’s what this is.” And the CDC said, “No, it doesn’t look like it,” and didn’t do a test."
11
Current Testing Situation in NYC as per NYC DOH website:
NYC Residents Non-NYC Residents*
Positive 1 0
Negative 8 1
Pending 1 0
Total 10 1
really? ONE test pending as of March 2nd?
this situation can only be described as incomprehensibly inept, embarrassing to our country, disgraceful, and potentially dangerous. Corona may be widespread in New York and we are still clueless about it because the data is just not there. We can only hope this virus maintains a low mortality rate, but even a low rate with massive uncontrolled spread in a densely populated city leads to thousands and thousands of deaths in absolute terms.
11
@glorynine I believe the one pending in NY is the husband of the woman doctor who tested positive over weekend after returning from Iran (I get the impression they knew they had a problem and decided to return here pronto). I do not know if the husband is also a doctor.
I believe NY wanted to test more people earlier, but was precluded by CDC rules, which required connections to China and had limited number of test kits.
7
Just a thought. Are any of the people who are dying of this virus wharf workers; exporters or importers; I thought not! Just test all workers at entry points instead of this muddled hap hazard unorganised testing. I don't think locking people in their homes is going to contain the virus as it spreads through touching surfaces etc. The worlds economy can't come to a halt and people need to get on with their everyday lives and eat. The Chinese need to eat so they need to clear their imports. Just confine all imports to 14 days then there is no fear of catching off imports from China. If China has money from exports then China will have money to buy and pay for imports. NZ meat exports are down 40%.
2
There is only one biological DNA genetic evolutionary fit human race species that began in Africa 300, 000+ years ago. And only one national origin aka Earth.
The most ancient and diverse biological DNA genetic evolutionary fit humans live in Sub- Saharan Africa. There is more diversity in one African village or ethnic group than in the rest of humanity combined.
Indeed, the humans who left Africa appear to carry the genetic bottleneck markers of a tiny population that was near incestuous in it's breeding.
Genetic diversity in humans like all animals is a great natural survival raw material mechanism advantage.
Coronavirus clearly doesn't discriminate on the basis of gender, color aka race, ethnicity, national origin, faith, education, politics nor socioeconomics.
1
Covid-19 has proven to be lethal in some cases.
Healthcare experts are sounding the alarm.
Why does trump continue to lie to us?
This is not a campaign rally. This is not some public appearance. Lives are at stake.
Why did he walk off the stage when dr fauci was discussing the outlook? Embarrassed? Disbelief? Did he have to visit the bathroom?
15
@Steve Ell Why did trump walk off the stage when Dr. Fauci was talking? trump don't need no facts.
5
If voters don't trust the President when he lies about the epidemic and the 3100+ deaths: what good is he to GOP Senate candidates?
5
Gov. Cuomo did a great job of putting this into perspective at his press conference. Not only that, I didn't hear any cheap shots at Trump, which is refreshing given the gravity of this. I encourage others to view it. The bottom line, it's more serious than the flu, but the order of magnitude of difference isn't that great. If you are healthy your risk of dying is extremely low. Kids for some reason fight it off extremely well, in the vast majority of cases. Go intelligently about your business taking time worn precautions if you are otherwise healthy. If you are suffering from a serious respiratory disease or immune compromised engage in social distancing for as long as necessary. The one impending challenge will be hospital beds, they're full already. That's why the compromised need to cocoon.
4
@bill Do you ever get disgusted at trump, who quite literally takes "cheap shots" every time he speaks or gets on his twitter account? He's been doing this his entire candidacy and presidency. Do you remember that the citizen trump unleashed a volley of about 100 tweets about the Ebola virus, including one that stated Obama should resign over Ebola?
trump has been dishing it out in volume "forever". He deserves everything he gets now.
"If you are healthy, your risk of dying is extremely low." Like the three, young, dead Chinese doctors?
5
One of the most sensible things I have seen in place in China: Have temperature checks on the grocery/fastfood store workers as well as the customers. Also, do the same for schools/offices until the spread dies down. Would help a lot during normal flu season as well.
China is late on this but at least they came up with it. US still has time. Sure, some of those who pass the checks may already be spreading it, but overall it may help reduce the chances of exponential community spread taking place.
Here is the link to that video:
https://www.cnn.com/videos/business/2020/03/02/china-coronavirus-covid-19-kfc-contactless-delivery-culver-intl-hnk-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/stories-worth-watching/
4
Middle of the night last night, they were in hazmats suits spraying the streets with chemicals in San Francisco, on Market Street.
4
@M That's normal... not related to coronavirus
1
It’s been with mixed emotions I read daily headlines. Sadly, it took a coronavirus to knock trump’s name out if every headline, but at least it’s gone. I guess it takes one lethal disaster to overshadow another. (If only a mask would prevent trump...)
8
Trump has made over 16,000 lies or misleading statements as president. I might look to him if I was interested in advice on how to run an Atlantic City casino into bankruptcy. But I am going to heed the warnings and advice of the medical experts and not Donald Trump when it comes to protecting my health and the health of those around me during a growing world-wide pandemic. Those who support Trump and want to follow his lead into this foxhole are certainly free to do so.
6
It is deeply misleading to state that the TOTAL number of cases in the USA is 88. Testing capacity is so limited that only very few people are tested. It would be more accurate to state that "there have been 88 confirmed cases of Americans falling extremely ill due to the CoVid-19 virus."
In Kirkland and Everett, Washington, for example, local officials have told hundreds of sick people to stay home but have only tested 14 total people, with 4 positive cases. The official policy in Washington is to ONLY test people who have been hospitalized or died due to a suspected CoVid-19 case. All other people whose symptoms match those of the virus, are simply told to stay home and are NOT tested and thus NOT included in the official count of cases.
12
Of course, the US lacks universal health care because that would be socialism. Let's watch as the disease spreads here and costs a huge amount of money and many people their lives because of ignoramuses who don't understand socialism or the fact that universal health care, in the long run, is by far the cheapest most efficacious way to go.
Like the saying goes, there's no fixing stupid.
19
Once again the NY Times overstates reality in defending their letwing political beliefs. Using the word "scrambles" in this article shows their palpable bias against the Trump administration I If Sanders was President they would use words like "under control or contained" Despicable to politicize this issue.
1
@J bank
Sadly, photos in the USA of nurses carrying sheets to hide the transport of patients, while wearing very unprofessional gear, does make Trump's America look like a shambles. There were months to get prepared for this? Why hasn't Trump done one useful thing?
5
@J bank Why didn't the first (SMALL) batch of test kits work? Why didn't we have many more working kits? South Korea, Italy, China and even Iran had mass testing under way almost immediately. So, yes, we were, and are, "scrambling".
Only with mass testing can we develop the necessary data to define the scope of infection. We missed the first opportunity.
Sadly for the US, the incompetence of the Trump administration and the distrust and lies that have been perpetuated by them resulted in a total failure of leadership. How shocking to have Trump bloviating about how his rallies are totally safe to attend in the face of a pandemic. He is a total disgrace to our country and is his lackey Pence.
10
Relax! President Trump has assured us that this is a hoax.
9
Rumor has it that since the virus is more lethal for older people, and since old white men are disproportionately represented in the Republican party, the virus is a plot by young Democrats like AOC and friends to wipe out Republicans. It was jointly created, the rumor goes, by George Soros and Mike Bloomberg.
I love right wing conspiracy theories. They provide much-needed amusement in times of bad news.
9
This is America 2020! Get use to it!
I'm here in Seattle and if you want more details you can check our local news channels. While it seems to be spreading quite quickly, as in China it only seems to be serious if you are elderly and already quite sick as the case of the nursing home. A teenager felt ill on a Monday and returned to school on a Friday but then somehow someone tested him as positive. But, as I pointed out, he was already feeling better and didn't feel the need to go to an ER.
The first case here a month ago was a 30 year old man who had visited Wuhan and he has already completed quarantine and is fine.
The most concerning issue so far was that 25 firefighters had to be quarantined after they responded to the nursing home in the first place. And the nursing home in question had 17 nursing students visiting last week for a couple of days and now that school is closed.
http://komonews.com/
https://www.king5.com/
https://www.kiro7.com/
https://q13fox.com/
4
@tom harrison And I read researchers WA has retained estimate 150 to 1500 people may have been infected through kid and that kid was infected through chain that goes back to 30 yr old guy you mention.
1
Trump says there are only five cases in the US
Don’t worry! I saw Pence at AIPAC and he said there were only two deaths and that these people had underlying conditions so the rest of shouldn’t be concerned.
It’s deplorable how this admin is dealing with this.
6
We should have a better idea of the seriousness the administraion is taking this on March 26, 2020. The oepning day of the baseball season. This might not be based on science but should be a reliable indicator.
2
The coronavirus is upon us and yet the New York government cares whether sellers provide plastic bags to consumers. Ridiculous! I would also note that (1) using a reusable bag is not a smart idea when there is this coronavirus outbreak, (2) using a paper bag cannot get you home when it's raining and doesn't work if you are trying to carry heavy things like a bag of rice and (3) people generally don't use plastic bags only once, they reuse them for trash, but with this ban they will buy plastic bags for trash which will result in the plastic bags being used only once. Dumbest idea ever!
2
@Andy So you are using the coronavirus story to complain about the plastic bag ban, which was set in motion long before the virus came about?
And btw, the only urban tumbleweed we see here in NYC, rolling around in our streets, or flapping in the breeze from trees, are single-use plastic bags. I don't recall the last time I saw an empty Trash Bag stuck in a tree, or heard that a sea mammal, bird or wildlife was killed by a discarded Trash Bag. But a single-use plastic bag? Happens all the time. Clearly most folks were not reusing those bags.
Also, I didn't realize I could get the coronavirus by reusing my own nylon tote bag for shopping?
4
Not to mention the fact that the people ordering abandonment of plastic usually drive giant SUVs, and have giant refrigerators and giant screen TVs, among other things. Talk about waste. And speaking of waste I watched a BBC video on "self-isolation" and one of the things you are supposed to do then is double bag in plastic all your waste!!! Too bad New Yorkers won't be able to do that when they self isolate.
The media is playing this like it’s the Black Death. It is a flu. It MAY be slightly more dangerous than any flu, but that is not certain. Tens of thousands of people die a year in the US from regular flu. The vast majority of people who get Coronavirus have recovered and will recover just fine.
Why are we destroying the economy of the world with hysteria about this?? It’s totally insane. Getting this flu is only dangerous for the very old and the people with compromised immune systems. These people have to be careful of flu in any case.
You are not going to die if you get Coronavirus. You will have a fever, have some respiratory trouble and you will feel better in two weeks.
The Times and other media have to help people to calm down, not increase the panic. Selling papers by publishing doom stories is immoral. You will ruin more people financially than will ever be in any danger from Coronavirus. STOP THE MADNESS.
1
@Mr. Little
Do you think Europe is hysterical? Or, that what they do in Europe is “Media”?
Maybe it would be a good idea to once read foreign (English) news papers before writing and believing such things like you wrote in your commentary.
3
The NYT, just as in times of Hussein's WMDs, needs to stop parroting China's figures w/o question.
These are statistically questionable... speak more to re-starting the Chinese economy and the sick going underground than of anything else.
1
Places like Russia, North Korea and the United States have very little or no reported Coronavirus infections. I wonder why? Is it incompetence or political will by Putin, Kim and Donald? If you don’t test, there is no outbreak I guess...sad.
3
@D
Maybe they have few. But truth is hard to come by in all three countries, and quality of life in each, questionable.
1
Just make sure your affairs are in order, and that you have named contingent beneficiaries....
That's my plan.
Also...keep your fingernails cut short. Great place for bacteria or viruses to harbor....and wash hands frequently.
1
The WHO is offering a detailed scientific Press conference - with data on all countries and all responses right now. Why is there no link on the first page of NYTImes?
1
Hope this does not spread throughout the country
1
Now aren't we all glad that the Trump administration disbanded the U.S. pandemic response team a year or so ago - just to make sure we would be spooled up in advance to respond to a virulent 'hoax' like this one?
Just wait until the big one hits - as in the catastrophic results of climate change. I suppose the Trump Cult will call that a 'hoax' when it happens too. 'No, those waters really aren't rising on Wall Street, that's just the fake news CNN and NYT trying to fool you again. Just listen to me. I know more than the generals.'
Or as in the case of other recent catastrophes, our "President" can handle it by claiming the dead aren't really dead, or the victims had it coming because they were California ecoterrorists who didn't sweep the forest floor regularly, or Puerto Ricans, or whatever similarly idiotic rationale he can concoct for his administration's sheer incompetence and flagrant disregard for the well-being of others.
2
I have been consuming these headline articles on Coronavirus regularly. While, initially they were informative in understanding this, now I am starting to believe NyTimes is really milking this for readership and revenue. This is irresponsible journalism that could create mass panic and become a self-fulfilling prophecy. I think people now have a reasonable idea that this is more contagious and deadly than flu, and are conscious of personal hygiene and preparation. Unless new information emerges on the characteristics of the illness, effective preventions, etc, NyTime may want to practise responsible journalism and stop sensationalizing this. Thank you!
2
But . . . but . . . but . . . our beloved President told us -- in all sincerity -- that this Coronavirus was all a "hoax."
Is the whole world "in" on this hoax?
Are the dead people NOT dead?
Is our beloved President NOT being honest?
5
@Lilburne
Fake news. He didn't say that. Your statements prove his point though.
Anybody heard from Pence?
6
@Dan Holton - You Didn't get a call this morning? Dan if i was you I would be nervous.
3
@Mkm That's just like a VP, isn't it. They have a big announcement that he's the head honcho on viruses, then he never calls us when we need something important done.
1
@Dan Holton They were arguing at the podium (he and Azar) about who was in charge, and, simultaneously, the "president" beat a hasty exit. Some "leadership".
1
Feel is US has a real outdated system, but is able to get by taxing, overworking poor folks, and finally overcharging. I came here as a graduate student. The school was so old, yes it was prestigious... labs were out of date, belonged to the 1970s. I taught and graded at $10 per hour. Had no choice. My wife and I lived on 15k per year. When we got sick, we would be charged $100 to have a 70 year old doc take our temperature and do a simple step test after we paid $2000 for insurance every year. If I had a heart attack, yes, most expenses would have been covered. I get that, that's how insurance works. But unless something goes really wrong, you get no benefits. Same with the virus, it has to get real bad before something happens.
1
I was supposed to drive to Dartmoth Hitchcock today but cancelled after I woke up with a fever. Now as I channel surf and scroll through my screens I see that the first presumptive positive case has been confirmed in neighboring New Hampshire and it's a DH employee.
6
If the virus is anywhere as close to as contagious as people are saying, I genuinely don't understand how any possibility of containment remained after even a week of uninterrupted global air travel last November/December. Therefore, wouldn't it be more realistic to assume that millions of people in the US have caught it but experienced mild or no symptoms? Which would be a good thing, because it would mean the death rate is far lower than the recorded deaths out of tested/confirmed cases have suggested?
I am not a scientist and would appreciate any explanation of why my hypothesis is wrong - I just don't see how it adds up based on what we're being told.
4
There was never any hope of containing the virus, the authorities were just trying to avoid a panic. It will become a pandemic in under a month. Luckily it's not very aggressive.
1
@D
It was (and still is) not tested. Dead people, regular pneumonia/flu.
@D you are fundamentally not wrong, though it would be difficult to know precisely how many people have been infected to date. I have substantial scientific training, and what is scary is that your intuition as a self-declared non-scientist is superior to the scientific expertise of those leading the charge at the CDC.
I am mostly concerned with using the ubiquitous transit system in NYC. The trains are packed and super unhygienic in the best of times. If one person gets in a train car that could spread the virus exponentially as every neighborhood in NY seems to be on the train at any given time. What if someone infected passes it on to a homeless person? That homeless person rides the train all day, unwittingly passing it on. . .and so on and so on. . .
8
If Iran has bad epidemic, what is happening in Syria, where Iran is involved and where there are large refugee camps?
4
Iran might have brought the first case in the city. But I think you will see more people getting sicker in next 2 weeks due to a long incubation period. We have not stopped flight from Italy or South Korea but only Iran?
The self isolation is a mistake if you are already diagnosed positive. I understand the self quarantine for people «at risk » due to past travels but this makes no sense to me to have this Iranian couple kept in their Manhattan home. Are they getting delivery ? What is preventing them to go take an elevator to go check their mail ? Why taking such a huge risk if they are positive...big mistakes are being made with a virus close to SARS. It is already killed more than the SARS in 2 months...spreading all over the world....
1
I have wondered about that too. I understand the wife is a doctor, possibly also the husband. So you have to hope they are responsible. But in big Manhattan apt. building, do you warn other residents (could be hundreds) or do you keep it secret? Do you stop using garbage room, package/mail room, gym, laundry room? BBC video says household trash supposed to be double bagged in big plastic bags and left outside door for pickup. By whom? If building handymen, will they refuse, or just spread the news?
Problem with CDC guidelines is they seem to have been written for people living in big suburban houses.
1
Chinese state authorities have probably been underreporting the extent and severity of the COVID-19 outbreak from the get-go. Add one or two zeros to that 90,000 number and you might get close to the real number.
1
The US's bad healthcare - not only under/noninsurance but lack of sick days in the workplace - increases the risk of disease spread, including this one:
"Lack of Paid Sick Days and Large Numbers of Uninsured in US Increase Risks of Spreading the Coronavirus"
[https://www.epi.org/blog/lack-of-paid-sick-days-and-large-numbers-of-uninsured-increase-risks-of-spreading-the-coronavirus/]
3
It seems that the virus was spreading undetected for about 6 weeks in the Seattle area.
And US officials went to the Wuhan area and picked up US citizens to repatriate, while take zero precautions (protection).
Bonjour les degats...
3
Look there is no method by which this version of the flu
can be contained.
Too many people have had it or have it and they are too
mobile to prevent it from spreading.
The media only makes the matter worse by acting like
a new version of the Black Plague has arrived.
Yes, the economy may slow down for a bit,
but then will pick up again.
Too many reporters are not qualified to make the judgements
they are making and you are just scaring people with
opinions instead of facts and the Times is not helping the
situation.
Next time stop all international travel for three months,
yes people will complain but too bad, no one has a right to
travel the world infecting any and all they meet.
pick
6
Stop all international travel fo 2 mo. Now that would crush the economy. Walmart shelves would be empty.
@John
Not at all.
Shipments can travel, be quarantined for two
weeks and then delivered.
The crews never leave their ships.
1
Here's the headline today: "Coronavirus Updates: Global Infections Approach 90,000 as U.S. Scrambles to Slow Spread."
First, both the U.S. is "scrambling" and the So. Korean cases are spiking because the U.S. doesn't have the state-of-the-art Samsung testing-apparatus the Koreans had from the get-go (and the So. Koreans test 10,000+ people a day). Yes, indeed, let's 'make america great again' and IMPORT, unfortunately, the
tools we need to get-up-to-speed. (the U.S. is so far behind other countries in so many areas; it's pathetic...and U.S. citizens live in the 'exceptionalism fantasy' that they have and are the best [read Kurt Anderson's "Fantasyland"]). Second, while the SARS-CoV-2 virus and attendant disease COVID-19 are "novel" as in 'not seen before,' coronaviruses are NOT "novel." Under four subgroupings for coronaviruses: alpha, beta, gamma and delta, there are SEVEN coronaviruses that infect people (note the 'SARS' affix in the description for this latest one above);--- you do the CDC research. Hence, the NYTs and other mainstream-news outlets might use the CORRECT NAME for the SPECIFIC coronavirus they are all catastrophizing about. Otherwise, you're all owned by Big Pharma, and you're peddling pandemic catastrophe. Finally, however, the asymptomatic transmission of this particular strain is worrisome, mostly because it may be masking under more common, underlying, human influenza viruses, which means it's own evolving-survival piggybacks on what's already present.
3
The WHO situation report for 3/1 states "The number of confirmed cases in Hubei province, China, has increased for two successive days after a period of decline. WHO is monitoring the situation and working to understand its possible significance."
SOURCE on WHO website -- https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200301-sitrep-41-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=6768306d_2
1
The US has thousands of cases. This thing has been out of the bag since late January! Where is truth? What are facts?
3
From from information provided by medical experts (not politicians, no op-ed writers), the virus is a severe health risk to the same categories of people who die by the thousands each year in the USA from seasonal flu.
Assisted living facilities, nursing homes, and care homes already have (or should have) protocols in place to deal with flu. I saw them in action when my ninety-something father was in assisted living for 7 years. This virus, being new and without a "shot" available, means that workers in these types of facilities should be particularly protected.
Each year hundreds of thousands of people get the flu. Unless they are in one of the at-risk groups, they do not die.
3
@Garagesaler when my aunt was in a nursing home entire wings would be periodically quarantined and no visitors allowed until a wave of the latest virus had passed. Hygiene was insufficient and protocols definitely need to be in place.
3
@Garagesaler Younger folks may not (often) die, but they still spread the disease.
5
@Garagesaler I generally agree with what you are saying but am also trying to understand your point. Yes, viruses are more lethal to medically vulnerable persons. That is a truism and in itself does not put me at ease, especially since I currently have a mother in assisted living, where viruses regularly make their way in and quarantines are put in place, but nonetheless residents routinely have to go to the hospital and some die. Also, anyone who has had a bout of the flu knows it is a severe strain on your body and immune system and is not something to be taken lightly. Also this virus is apparently more lethal, is more contagious, has a longer incubation period, and is harder to detect. So it is going to be that much more wide-spread among the general public and, consequently, among those more vulnerable sub-groups.
5
My understanding of the woman in New York who had just arrived from Iran, from what I have read and heard on TV, was that she had barely arrived when she went straight to the hospital. So does that mean she knew she was unwell in Iran? On the plane(s)? They said on TV they were tracing something like 40 of her contacts. Wouldn't someone who had flown here on probably at least 2 planes, including a big transatlantic one, have had more than 40 contacts? What about all the folks on that big transatlantic plane from somewhere in Europe? Are they being tested? What about the people in her Manhattan apartment building? Do they know?
6
@ellienyc - The mayor and governor said this morning at a press conference that she and her husband are both in the health care field and were aware when they left Iran that they might be infected so took precautions to keep from spreading it around. They said she went to Mt Sinai hospital right away once they arrived and let them know her suspicions. They said the people they flew with and the driver(s) they were in contact with are being tracked down and will be informed of the situation.
1
@Freedean Well I still can't understand how the people they flew with constitute only 40 contacts.
I understand they are both doctors. Is Mt. Sinai their hospital?
What do they do when people like them live in big apt. buildings with hundreds, if not thousands, of other people. Do they let others know? Or do they keep it a secret if the sick people agree to stay in their apt. - not use laundry room, package room, garbage room, etc.
Obviously, the virus is spreading faster in the cold climes as is evident in the map. So, the best hope for proper containment is warm weather and laboratory-based vaccine development for later use.
@AKA So you are saying Global Warming will save us? Lets all keep our cars running.
I'll believe they are actually doing something when they ban large group gatherings like at his rallies, as an effort to stop the spread. Then again, if it is spread like wildfire at one of these rallies, then maybe he will have to call them off. We will see!
4
@Barry To be fair and democratic, ALL large rallies would have to be banned, including those of Bernie, Biden, Bloomberg, and whoever else is left in the race by the time you read this. Then we will really see if there are screams of voter suppressment and harassment or what not.
1
90,000 isn't much when you consider the population of China. Someone needs to tell China to get their wharf workers back to work, as it's affecting the global economy. Test people at work; not in locked homes.
3
@CK from my knowledge they're doing checks at office buildings as well.
Until they change the quarantine from 14 days to 28, it's going to be an issue.
Here in San Antonio, a woman was released Saturday and went to the busy mall and ate in the food court. Then she went to the Holiday Inn by the airport and became sick.
This is not going to get better until the quarantine is longer.
13
@M
In the UK, they are talking about closing schools for "up to 2 months"!
4
Some important perspective: when the so-called "Spanish" flu started in 1918 (in Kansas, not Spain), it began as a relatively benign disease in the springtime (like this) but, AS IT WAS NOT NIPPED IN THE BUD, it then returned in the fall in a far more virulent strain, killing millions. A third wave - again deadly - came in 1919-20. So please don't dismiss the seriousness of this outbreak. It might not seem too bad to some of you but, if/when it returns in the spring, it could well be much worse. We will not understand what we are dealing with (in terms of death rates, etc.) until it is really over.
18
@Julian : Hey, what are you trying to do, confuse people with facts? You're absolutely right - and it's shocking to read all of the amateur epidemiologists, fueled by nonsense they have heard from the White House, Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and other noted 'epidemiologists', who opine this is no big deal.
It is a big deal. Whether it will become as deadly as the influenza outbreak of 1918 or not it is way too soon to know - but it has that potential, which is why Herculean efforts are now being made to try to abate the risk as early in the spread of the pathogen as possible.
Virulent willful ignorance and stupidity is nearly as lethal as covid-19 -- and it's unfortunate there's so much of it going around in Trump's America at the moment.
3
It is important to encourage everyone to get the flu vaccine -- not to protect against the coronavirus -- but rather to protect those who otherwise might get the regular flu. Save hospital beds for the corona virus. If you and yours haven't already, please get the flu vaccine!
5
I truly do not understand why some many people say it's not so bad and we just need to see where it goes. We've seen where it goes: Wuhan, before the shutdown.
8
If this coronavirus outbreak in the USA doesn't expose the absurdity of not providing a national healthcare system that covers ALL citizens, then nothing will. The virus does not distinguish between who have health insurance coverage and those who does not. But even if one has insurance the co pays and deductible are high enough to ward off seeking medical help. What good is that??
Proper and inclusive healthcare is now a matter of national security. We are only as strong as our weakest link
32
I am with you on this. The crisis will expose the weakness of the healthcare system in US...people too afraid of hospital bills...might just chose to cope with the disease at home hoping they survive. We are the only country in the world having this system based on who can pay to survive.
9
The airline won’t refund us for our tickets for our spring break trip. My spouse says we’ll be fine, let’s go. My mother says, you must absolutely not go, you’re crazy if you go. Half my friends say the whole thing is overblown; the other half thinks our country is not caring enough. Me? I’m completely and utterly confused and exhausted by it all.
12
Go and enjoy your vacation.
1
@agmnw
I cancelled my non-essential trip (small refund). I am not good with anxiety and would not have enjoyed myself. Know thyself.
1
@Agmnw
If you plan on coming to Europe stay home. We do not need infected Americans who are not tested
2
The uninformed are busy with the hysterical comments--so some facts:
CDC estimates that influenza was associated with more than 35.5 million illnesses, more than 16.5 million medical visits, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths during the 2018–2019 influenza season.
The press has no data that this flu will have a higher mortality rate.
2
It's not a problem of how serious it is, it's a problem of too many people needing healthcare at the same time, and potentially infecting medical staff.
7
I hope the NYT will consider publishing a second map--and it seems that this data is available--about how the virus is actually spreading and in which particular world regions they are concentrated. The GIS map headlining this article relies on political boundaries and gives a reductive and misleading picture. Of course, the statements the article covers are coming from politicians, but the virus, as is the case, is apolitical. It will be very helpful for all of us to see "nodes" or focus-points on where most of the cases have been. Like having all of China covered a deep red is conveying a political message. Might it be possible to publish a second GIS map that tracks the spread of the disease on a more granular basis? This will be of tremendous help and should be of interest to all of us who are sick and tired of random statements from politicians. We want to know that the disease is focused in Wuhan and not in Tibet, or that cases have been reported in Rajasthan, not in Tamil Nadu, etc. If any news journal has the resources to put out such data, its either this one or the BBC. Thank you!
9
They’re telling us to keep 4-6 ft away from people but how in the world can you do this flying domestically?
2
Lol, try that on a NYC subway at rush hour. There can easily be 9 people within 6 feet of you.
1
Are preppers already in their bunkers? It would be neat to read about those who are.
5
Just reading the comments here, apparently there a lot of people think that if only Hillary Clinton were president, we would have had sufficient test kits, there would be fewer cases, and everything would be under control.
Russiagate was a scam. Everyone knew that Trump was not going to be convicted for quid pro quo. Keeping kids in cages failed because Obama kept kids in cages.
So if this virus fizzles out in a month or two, what's the next "scandal" that can be cooked up before the election?
3
I find it laughable that Trump supporters identify this disease politically. C’mon. It is real and should be given the respect and resources required to nullify it as much as possible. End of story.
10
@Graham Sorry, but from Day 1, Chuck Schumer was on the attack. The Democrats are salivating over this because they have nothing else, other than one of two very flawed candidates who will take on Trump. But it won't work.
In the midst of a pandemic threat, the foremost goal of a government is to prevent panic. As panic will doubtless make a bad situation worse. So this makes sense. But preventing panic comes at a cost. The cost being an absence of transparency. In the case of Covid 19, it appears that the needs of the many may not be consistent with the needs of the individual. This is only to be expected. Whereas governments rightfully encourage people to live their lives -- go to work, shop, attend events -- but take some meagre precautions (e.g., cough in sleeve, no hand shakes or kisses with acquaintances, wash hands with soap and water, use hand sanitizer) -- until the threat passes, individuals who have the option to avoid social gatherings would be well advised to do so. Also, to offer some slightly contrarian advice, it is probably better to contract the virus now than six weeks from now, when hospitals are full and healthcare may be rationed.
1
How can we not be past the point where we can contain this virus? We don’t know who is a carrier. How can we reduce exposure to the virus for those at highest risk, including the elderly and health care workers?
We need to focus on that. Meanwhile, people continue to gather en mass, at churches and synagogues and other religious institutions. They attend concerts and sports events. They go to work. They’d chafe at the restrictions imposed in China.
Few are tested. Most are not.
I believe that, at some point ,the virus will be transmitted in every region of the country. We’re elderly. One of us has an autoimmune condition. We’ve a stocked up on essentials and will at least be prepared to stay at home, for months if necessary, until this virus peaks and dies down.
If we’re overreacting then we’ll at least be prepared for the next virus that comes along. We've already had plenty of practice restricting outside activities when there are seasonal waves of illnesses in the community. It’s been a necessity.
2
@ Jace
You aredoing all rhe rifht things.
Others should go to cdc.gov for prevention information, as well as emergency preparedness and pandemic information.
1
My late husband and I are both RN's. A nursing home outbreak is a horrible scenario. This is the most vulnerable patient population, to start with.
Last summer after brain surgery, my husband spent 6 weeks in a local "5-star" nursing facility. While the staff was hard working and really cared about us, the overall level of competency was lacking. My husband had to instruct the staff on how to administer his insulin shots- no one knew the proper way to use an insulin pen. There was one bathroom for 4 residents, and the toilet was frequently covered with dried-on fecal material. I cleaned the bathroom myself and brought wipes from home for my husband. There weren't any sinks visitors or staff could easily access to wash hands. I never once saw a staff member wash his/her hands. Hand sanitizer is ok, but is NOT a substitute for proper washing, especially in a hospital. The single bathroom for staff and visitors was kept locked, and one had to get the key from the nursing station. Overall I was frequently appalled by things I observed during my many hours spent there. I know that staff could never in a million years respond in an appropriate way to an outbreak of a disease that requires knowledge
64
Amen. My mother has been in a nursing home for two long years, supposedly the best in this city, and the conditions you describe are all true. My concern is that the virus carriers who are not yet showing symptoms will go in and out of the home, virus undetected; this goes as well for banks, churches, grocery stores, schools, hospitals, gas stations, AND office spaces... day care centers, department stores, restaurants, drive through windows, pharmacies. I am doing what I can to be prepared, but where do I stop and say I feel that I have done everything I can to stay safe? When?
I want to thank you and your husband for being nurses, not an easy job, and one with many demands. Hang in there, things are going to get even harder for those in the health care field. Take care.
14
@Malinoismom ...meant to end with - requires knowledge of proper infectious disease protocols and proper use of isolation equipment.
Not easy to type with a rambunctious puppy chewing on my arm.
4
@Malinoismom ...meant to end with - requires knowledge of proper infectious disease protocols and proper use of isolation equipment.
Not easy to type with a rambunctious puppy chewing on my arm.
1
My advice: stop focusing on the death rate per se. Take a moment to focus on the hospitalization rate. Not very many do focus on this, but it appears that upward of 15% require hospitalization. This is an enormous strain.
Then, focus a little bit on what the death rate will be when the hospitals are full, we are out of ventilators, and every other consequence that naturally follows from that hospitalization rate.
At this point, the goal is to lesson the rate of infection so the medical field can cope.
When every hospital in Manhattan, Los Angeles, and San Francisco is full, what do you do?
90
@Mark Allen
Absolutely.
Good to discover that someone is thinking clearly amid all this.
13
@Mark Allen Thank you.
. . . then focus on all the hospital staff that are sent home on quarantine. Hospitals staff to the bone, so when we lose people, everyone else works harder and longer. We've only had one COVID 19, and we already need to bring in traveling nurses to cover the shifts of quarantined nurses. What happens when there are more?
13
@Mark Allen
In Italy, 49% of the known infected are hospitalized!
5
88 cases that we are currently aware of.
How many more are there that we are NOT currently aware of?
How many more are being infected by those that we are NOT currently aware of?
The spread of the coronavirus is faster and farther than we currently know.
We need to go all out to test everyone that we can.
We need to implement even greater containment measures to minimize the spread of the coronavirus.
We are still not doing enough.
9
To anybody still in denial about the severity of the threat to the US, consider that Italy:
- has very good, sensitive diagnostic kits to screen for the virus
- gets results FAST
- has been screening extensively
- including for community transmission
- has free healthcare
- pays for sick days
Find the differences with US.
97
@Gió
Well that certainly explains why there are 1,600+ cases in Italy and 88 in the US.
1
@Jackson
The red zone in Italy is densely populated, and the population there is older than the average.
Plus, when you test for the virus, you end up knowing if that was the virus. We are testing for the virus.
I assume that the lack of please before explain must be a typo.
6
@Jackson I'm going to guess that there's been more coronaovirus-related deaths in the US, but patients did not meet the testing criteria. For example, an elderly person who contracted the disease by community transmission, had co-morbidity health issues, and was diagnosed with pneumonia. Until definitive testing is readily available, fast and free, the viruses' presence and impacts on the health of the U.S. population will remain clouded by ignorance.
3
Clearly now, this virus was moving quietly and incubating in communities inside the US (as well as other nations) for the last 6 weeks.
There is a key lesson learned here, or should be learned by CDC:
For a novel new virus, with contagion properties similar to flu and mortality rates similar to 1918 pandemic flu, in a modern and mobile society the early ability to TEST for the virus early, and in volume IS THE ONLY SHORT TERM PROTOCOL THAT MATTERS.
For that you need the genetic code of the virus, and a research team to create a test kit and move it quickly into volume production and distribution for field testing. CDC had the genetics of this virus, and yet fumbled and failed for more than 6 weeks to release working test kits in volume to the field.
This was a giant failure on the part of CDC... and is costing lives today, will cost lives tomorrow, and will cost lives in the future.... that could have likely been saved by a more urgent and robust roll out of field test capability in the US. This is maddening.
30
@Chuck
That failure to produce test kits in large numbers and distribute them widely needs to be investigated.
28
Chuck
The CDC knows very well what to do. The CDC pandemic response division has been gutted by our science- ignorant president, and now his administration is choking off information flowing from the CDC to the public.
5
@Chuck The best solution would have been to take the scientists and doctors seriously before all this havoc started. RIP Dr. Li Wenliang
2
As of this post, USA has 88 reported cases. If China had reported so few cases, we would doubt its testing and reporting. Therefore, I doubt our testing and reporting since we have such a large population. I believe part of the growing panic is based upon the federal government's lack of progress and funding to protect us.
49
@Julia7425 I think by now it is common knowledge the US has very little testing capability. But supposedly FDA shipped 75,000 kits over the weekend and other labs are getting authorization to test, so our capability is increasing fast. With that, expect the infected count in the US to increase quickly as more tests are conducted, and the ensuing hysteria to follow.
12
@Julia7425 I think by now it is common knowledge the US has very little testing capability. But supposedly CDC shipped 75,000 kits over the weekend and other labs are getting authorization to test, so our capability is increasing fast. With that, expect the infected count in the US to increase quickly as more tests are conducted, and the ensuing hysteria to follow.
3
@Julia7425 I think the problem in US has been exacerbated by policies of CDC: Until last week wouldn't test people who didn't have connection to China, had very few test kits, and many of those they had were defective.
I think a lot more cases will be uncovered in next week or two because states can now do own testing and it's apparently better than CDC testing.
8
There are so many things working against us:
Lack of testing kits and locations.
Lack of universal health insurance.
Lack of equipment (N95 masks, ventilators).
Abandoned development of a SARS vaccine.
Lack of expertise in the federal government.
Lack of competence and leadership in the federal government.
Lack of urgency in Congress providing adequate funding.
(I’m sure there are more.)
Fortunately we DO have some things in our favor.
Many thousands of dedicated, capable, hard-working health care professionals.
Thousands of very smart scientists working on understanding the virus and developing vaccines.
(I’m sure there are more.)
41
Eric
I think you are thinking that SARS is caused by the same strain of virus. A SARS vaccine under development a few decades ago would only protect against CoV-2 which is the corona virus which caused the SARS (severe acute respiratory disease) outbreak in in 2002-2003.
The viruses that cause outbreaks change. Different strains become the cause of influenza illness each year, which is why it is recommended you get a flu vaccine every year.
CoVid -19 needs a vaccine specific to it.
2
@Semper Fi
COVID-19 is the name of the disease; the virus causing it is indeed SARS-CoV-2. The virus causing SARS was SARS-CoV (I imagine it will be called SARS-CoV-1 from now, after the emergence of COVID).
But you are right, a SARS vaccine would most likely not protect against COVID-19, as they are different viruses. However, it is a bit unsettling that we still don not have a SARS vaccine, more than 15 years after that outbreak. Particularly when hearing some predictions about having a COVID vaccine "soon."
2
Looking at pics of the Washington patients being taken to an ambulance for transfer, one gets an unsettling feeling that China may care more for her citizens than the US for us. Where is the protective gear? It totally looks like amateur hour despite the weeks we have had to establish protocols. Perhaps it is fortunate for the Chinese, that they did not accept a CDC team of "experts". The CDC that can't and won't test Americans. Also read on CNN yesterday that the CDC was withholding information regarding patient characteristics (not talking identifying info here) that might be helpful to clinicians on the front lines. Bet all the competent folks were laid off or quit.
46
After reading comments here and on social media, I am convinced that it does not matter what the press says or what Pence says, half the people will say one or the other is hype and half the people will say one or the other is downplaying a serious situation. The reality is that nobody knows where this thing is headed so I tend to just watch the show as it evolves and hope for the best.
7
@Scott Werden - The most likely outcome is that the rate of spread and sickness will track pretty consistently with what happened in China -- at least at first -- before they resorted to draconian quarantine measures. How you perceive that is up to you (hype or a serious situation).
2
If the medical profession could prove that once infected one has immunity at least for a several month period, and if enough people in the low risk age groups are willing, then why not purposely get some herd immunity started. These are two big "ifs" and the following may be too "out there."
Set up locations where people purposely get infected and wait out the illness until it is over. These people then will be unable to spread the virus and can interact with and help people more at risk. If there were enough people who could do this (highly unlikely I know) then some herd immunity would occur which might slow down the random spread of the virus currently occuring.
4
@Kyra
Herd immunity, yes, or those people who have recovered could work on the front lines treating the sick. The problem is that such immunity might not exist.
2
@Kyra There aren't enough young people around to create a herd immunity effect. Typically about 95% of a population must be immune (normally through vaccination) to create the effect, and secondly, some younger people do die from COVID-19. Think of the three young doctors in China who died. Finally, what would we do with literally tens of millions of infected folks who would need to be isolated (aka, quarantined) while we waited for their disease to run its course and leave them immune? Run 'em all onto a large cattle ranch in northern Nevada or eastern Montana?
1
@Kyra There's evidence of infection-reinfection though: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/28/national/coronavirus-reinfection/#.Xl1I7ahKjUE
2
Also interesting how Trump’s approach to almost anything else has been to promote fear but in the case of this virus he has given false reassurances. Can the media compare and contrast please ?
18
Now this is stunning. New Yorkers are shunning chinese american businesses. How very liberal!
7
@clarity007
No, how ‘progressive.’
Clarity007
Ah, not really.
Many Chinese Americans in NYC travel to the hot zones of this outbreak, or have relatives visiting them from there. Short of interrogating or asking each business about their exposure or contacts, why risk it?
1
Regarding the health worker there was not a controlled situation by any means when they landed in New York coming from Iran via another hub then to the States. Probably hundreds of people were exposed by the couple who knew they had it or might have it since they came from Iran, but kept quiet about it and went home almost a week ago and what happened then? So far for transparency everybody
Is preaching.
2
China is winning the war against Coronavirus. it's time for America to step up the plate.
3
Italy has more cases than Iran, but Trump bans all travel to Iran but not Italy. I wonder why?
12
@R Kling
Travel to some parts of Italy - Lombardy and Veneto - is banned for Americans. In addition, while I am loathe to defend this administration, it does seem that the case numbers in Iran are not believable, particularly given the number of high-profile people who have died so far.
5
I agree with your suspicion that it’s not health related but one could and he will argue:
Italy has a very open information policy and is extremely unlikely to cover up any case while Iran officially doesn’t really have an issue. of the countries affected most, Italy has no agenda to hide any cases. That does make it less likely to be affected unknowingly.
1
By my estimate, using 3% infection rate and a death rate of 1%, 98,000 people would die in the US.
The 3% rate is the low end of the common flu infection rate and the 1% death rate is lower than the Spanish flu.
US POP 327,000,000
common flu infection rate 3%
US infected 9,810,000
death rate 1%
deaths 98,100
The numbers get worse if you use the CDC's higher infection rate of 11%, almost 4x the deaths: 400,000.
The numbers get really worse if the death rate is higher than 1%.
For the administration to downplay the threat of this virus is criminal, in my opinion.
I'm 70 years old and no longer think I'm immortal, unlike some of the people who post on here comments like "it only kills the elderly."
That would be me.
324
The flu infection rate is low because we have a vaccine, so fewer Americans get the disease. Conversely, there is no vaccine for coronavirus so the expected infection rate will be much higher. It is novel to our bodies and we have no immunity, natural or acquired.
21
@Concerned @Concerned Neil Ferguson, of the School of Public Health at Imperial College London, an acknowledged expert in this area, estimated that uncontrolled the coronavirus will infect 60% of the population.
That is the reason the Chinese have taken such drastic action.
13
@Concerned - we cannot go by Chinese figures because a) their air pollution is so bad it shows up on NASA images b) they smoke on top of that
We don't have dirty air here in Seattle and if you want to smoke, you have to be 25' from the entrance to any building. Its very hard to chain smoke outside in 38 degree rain. And the last two days are about the only days I have seen something like the sun since November.
3
South Korea is the leader in testing for volume, logistics, and accuracy. The last time that I checked, the US and South Korea engaged in military war games for their mutual defense. Surely, there could also be some agreement to share scientific resources and medical know-how, but wait, that's right, I forgot. This administration likes to go at it alone. It doesn't want to be outshone by first-rate leaders in crisis management. The Donald finally gets his global-level crisis and he is well on his way to showing his incompetence.
8
@Marcos Mota It's not scientific know-how, it's protocol here that bungled it.
It is a basic PCR test that most any lab in the US can conduct, but it was declared a national health emergency so CDC called the shots, and they were woefully incompetent.
4
@Not 99pct Could someone working in crisis response in South Korea please reply to this above comment and share with us your methods/protocols for testing? If you'd also be so kind as to send a few scientistic to Mexico and Canada, we would appreciate it tremendously. a) To show how COVID-19/testing can be handled in similar climate and environs as the USofA. b) To keep the virus from migrating south to Central America. Our land borders don't afford the same level of protection as do your seas.
We need true leadership in this crisis! Lies and politically motivated science deniers are going to get a lot of people killed. Elizabeth Warren has put forth a common sense plan of action that will save many lives. It is a sad day in America when a candidate is showing greater leadership than the president.
12
Please do not conflate the number of actual infections with the number of confirmed cases. The number of infections is probably ten times the 90,000 making the fatality rate much lower. Washington State has two deaths and they think as many as 1500 people might be infected.
2
@Jonny Walker
Believe me, virologists know how to do the math and take into account all those factors. The lowest mortality rate estimate right now is 0.4% (four times that of the seasonal flu); and that is based on an already quite robust dataset from China. On a side note, the highest mortality rate is 2.9%, from Wuhan, which represents the only place where the prevalence of the disease reached figures to overwhelm the healthcare system. Particularly regarding the availability of respirators (5% of COVID patients develop critical symptoms requiring a respirator; so the 0.4% figure seems to reflect situations in which you have enough respirators for all critical patients).
8
Please report on how these people actually were tested. Where did they go to be tested? Did they go to an ER, or a doctor’s office, or call ahead? how was the test supplied to the medical provider who tested them? Was the test done for free, or did the people have to pay or use their insurance? Even if the test was free, did they have to pay or use insurance to go to the medical provider who tested them? ( this could be a barrier to others who might need a test) What were the symptoms that led to these people to be tested— there should be case reports of how each person manifested the illness from day one. Did they initially have runny nose and sore throat like a common cold and then progress to the lungs, or did it hit all at once the way the flu typically does. What did initial lab tests show.
I read one case report on line from the NEJM about the first positive case, but by now there are many more cases to write about.
Please report on these details, they could help us identify patients earlier in the disease. It sounds like up til now they have only tested very sick people.
How should a person in each state report a concern about need for testing? How should medical providers get the test or where should they send a patient who might have the virus? We don’t want folks sitting in waiting rooms if we can avoid that.
10
Maybe hysteria, maybe hype but the noises coming out of EU HQ over the last 90 minutes are pretty worrying.
"Potential for massive societal change"... is the most memorable.
The US government with it's 'only a flu, it'll be fine, no need to panic" has an opinion which is very much becoming a world minority of one.
The American obsession with giving priority to studying movements of the Dow Jones is pretty unedifying.
18
We don’t have enough masks. The testing kits are flawed and still not widely distributed. Quarantine protocols were nonexistent on many flights. The government has no idea how these cases are spreading.
This is the portrait of unprepared and incompetent leadership, no matter what words you hear coming from the WH.
13
And people are still flying into the country from across the globe?...including from Iran and Italy?
The United States should have been locked down 6 weeks ago. Only American citizens should have been allowed to return...and even then, only under strict protocols.
Instead, we have travelers from everywhere spreading the virus within our communities...with predictable results. Brilliant!
7
@Susanna
More than 90 million Americans fly overseas every year, while around 75 million foreigners (most of them tourists or on business trips) visit the U.S. per year.
Would you support a ban on Americans traveling abroad? Because they represent a way bigger problem.
4
America has a hand full of big problem.The Corona virus. Last week trump said the corona virus is the other Democrat "HOAX". This morning after listen to the New York State Governor briefing I come up with the question of the state of mind of the people who will vote for trump on November election.
4
@Lle The only hoax here is your understanding of what Trump actually said, thus confirming what he said.
I'm sure glad that President Trump decided to cut the CDC budget with the agreement of the Republicans in Congress of course so that he could build his GED border wall.
I'm sure glad that the president and his Republican lackeys decided to kill off Obamacare so that the maximum number of Americans can be without medical insurance ensuring instead that they are going to get very sick and show up at emergency rooms which will already be clogged.
Finally, How excellent it will be that the president usually inflated the annual federal deficit to give a massive tax cut to his billionaire friends. As spending goes up to combat this thing and the economy sinks in the face of it that deficit will become absolutely unserviceable.
But then I'm sure the president his sycophants in the Senate not to mention the Trump red hats will blame it all on Obama.
6
@Bill Langeman THe CDC budget was not cut. Trump has proposed cuts in recent budgets but never went into effect.
2
I find myself asking yet again, where are the GOP "leaders" in this mess of mishandling, miscommunication and downright malfeasance? The silence is deafening as they allow this orange maniac to run amok, blaming an international health crisis on Democrats attacking his fragile ego and rampant ignorance. Are a few more conservative judges and protection of a tax plan to benefit them and their wealthy patrons really worth placing an entire population in danger? As for Stephen Miller, he's probably already calculating with evil glee the dire impact on immigrants and other less desirable people with no access to healthcare.
As for Democrats and others, step up and take control, battle Trump, Pence and the other minions, distribute accurate information and be truthful with Americans. It's called representing your constituents, which is something long ago forgotten by the GOP.
15
I was in London a month ago and they were already on high alert. Perhaps Trump thought his wall would keep it out.
19
Trump NIH failure to follow protocol has already killed 2 people in WA, and that’s just the beginning. Iran? Obviously, all such persons at JFK should be subject to repeated testing during a 21-day mandatory quarantine, as should all persons from Italy, Korea, China etc., and all persons w/respiratory distress. If USA and NYC refuse to defend themselves from biological warfare direct from its most ardent adversaries’ epicenters, Qom, Mashhad, etc., they don't deserve to survive.
2
I like the "live" nature of the information being provided.
If I may ask:
- Provide more prominently the age of the people who are dying. Looks like they are older adults with underlying health conditions.
- Please, discriminate between the common human coronavirus (which has always been around and no one has ever panicked about) from SARS-CoV-2 (the novel coronavirus that causes coronavirus disease 2019, or COVID-19). These words are being used interchangeably and people freak out for no reason.
The reporting should make is 100% clear: is someone testing positive for SARS-CoV-2 or for the common human coronavirus. They are both a coronavirus, but the implications are substantially different
2
If we have flu like symptoms are we supposed to go to the doctor to rule out Coronavirus? We are receiving no instructions other than 14 days of self quarantine which would be stupid for a normal flu. Where to we get tested? I am sure Pence is on top of all of this.
7
These are statistically insignificant numbers, but more importantly, they are unverified and merely "reported." There is no fact checking, no third-party corroboration, no autopsy reports. It is also fascinating to read in The New Yorker, how Iran, of all places, has become a reported "epicenter" (https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/how-iran-became-a-new-epicenter-of-the-coronavirus-outbreak?utm_source=pocket-newtab) while the rest of the Middle East somehow is not, including the world's most active incubation source, Africa (and India especially vulnerable) with apparently none, nor any reported in Russia. A very selective pathogen, this coronavirus. One might even label it prejudiced.
2
@Matt Andersson 6 in Russia so far. 3 of them are passengers from Diamond Prince
That moment when you realize another "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job" disaster is coning down the pike.
I never wanted to see another scenario like we did with Katrina where the government's response was indifference, ineptitude and disgrace. And yet here we are, watching a slow-motion repeat.
10
People all around the world are seeing evidence of the incompetence of their governments.
3
I heard a caller, who is a health care worker in a hospital, call in and ask the specialist who was a guest today on Brian Leherer's program(WNYC) : we do not have enough protective gear and supplies. The guest replied "I know" and "do the best you can until supplies arrive." . This is more common than you think because the U.S. was not really prepared for the numbers".
My note:
Thank you to vote your conscience in the next election
12
One thing that concerns me about a place such as NYC is ....not only do we have tourists coming here from all over the world (though surely tourist/travel numbers have decreased due to the virus).... we also need to consider that in NYC we also have many Residents here, from all over the world, and many of those NYC Residents may have recently been (or are currently) abroad, to visit family in their native countries. So what we end up with is a real mix of comings and goings....
2
I'm in Italy and a little bit afraid... but at the same time I'm pleasantly surprised of some of the responses that my country is been able to mount. The politicians are terrible as usual and bickering, but I'm happy that we are able to do a lot of tests (22000 thousand as of today) I'm also happy about the communications, every day at six pm we have a press conference with the chief of "protezione civile" (an organizations that works during all kind of emergencies, from quakes to floods to epidemic now) he reads outs the numbers and responds to questions together with a doctor from our "istituto superiore di sanità". I hope politicians here keep following experts advise as it seems they are doing more or less.
14
@Grete
In America we could do better if we followed Italy's lead.
3
Has any administration gone 4 years without a disaster, a tragedy, or an epidemic? Trump gutted the agencies designed to protect us, whether the CDC, the EPA, NOAA, and even the FBI. Did Trump think there would never be a disaster on his watch, or did he just not care?
13
@Linda:
POTUS doesn't think, doesn't care, and thinks he is God. Remember, he's the one who said that he alone can fix things.
Public health officials are currently treating this virus as if it were the plague. And so the current policy is that all people take all possible measures to avoid getting infected. And so public gatherings have been prohibited in Italy and Switzerland. France closed the Louvre.
However the fact is that the world will not go on like this for many months to come. When there are many more cases in the subways of the world will not be closed for the foreseeable future and in general people will not stop living life for the foreseeable future either. The world will not come to a halt.
And the reason for this is that the public, starting with public health officials, will learn to view the virus not as having a fatality rate of about 1.4% as a whole. Instead the level of risk will be based on the age and general health of any given individual. And this is because scientists will learn to pinpoint what set those 1.4% apart from the other who were infected, many of whom never even suffered any symptoms. And because once a person gets infected they get immune to it, it will come to be viewed as getting chicken pox, which everyone gets once in their lives, so getting infected will not even be seen as a bad thing for strong and healthy people.
And so it will come to be accepted that people who are not older and in good health will simply go about their lives and accept the risk of getting infected and getting sick for a couple of days.
3
@Michael Stavsen The voice of reason. Thank you. And I think it's probably lower than 1.4% when all is said and done. As someone who think he had it already, it doesn't feel like much of anything if you have a mild case. I live part time in Milan.
@Michael Stavsen There are already cases of people who have been infected being re-infected. And, the elderly, people with compromised immune systems, and children with breathing trouble like asthma, are not disposable.
2
I'm still unclear as to what our response is or indeed if we actually have one to the virus threat. Pence totally bungled the HIV outbreak and always appears miles away lost in his thoughts like a man contemplating murder or simply unhappy to be here.
I have no faith in him. Pity Bloomberg isn't in charge of our response.
7
I have to assume that Fox and Friends and FOX news ignored the virus as it spread in Asia. That is the only way I can account for the lack of haste on the part of this administration.
9
@Chrisinauburn
Exactly. Denial and ignorance on Fox News, which Trump and Republicans watch, and which tells them what to say, will be our downfall, first on global warming (it gave 70% of its airtime to science deniers), and now on this Coronavirus with a death rate 20 times higher than flu.
3
Everyone needs to be tested, period. It could be done through ones primary care physician if we had tests available. Also, it would be prudent for money that is being spent on presidential campaigns to be spent in a wiser way by billionaires to provide tests for those who cannot afford to go to their physicians for a test.
We do not know who traveled to China, Iran, Italy, or S. Korea here in New York City, or how long ago a virus such as this has been in their system or if it is indeed in their system, but it could be that some people have it and the virus could be in many communities at this point. Therefore, testing is necessary and perhaps something everyone could really think about doing.
Testing has been going on in European and Asian countries for over a month, and although many have been affected, there are so many more that are not. They are much more proactive than we are, and speaking to a family member in Milan, they seem to be at ease with their take-charge efforts, especially with their testing procedures.
This is not a scare tactic, this could be something that one could do voluntarily, almost like the flu shot.
4
As a former nicotine addict I wish that at the next news conference with Pence present some one would ask one of the doctors: "Would a lifetime of tobacco-smoking increase the risk of dying from this disease? Are COPD patients at greater risk? Are you gathering data on this factor?"
The next question should ask Pence if he wants to rethink and correct any of his past statements that he made in servitude to his benefactors at Big Tobacco.
10
Sadly structural lung diseases like COPD greatly increases the rate of complications and death for this virus.
6
@Thomas Payne
A few days ago an article in this paper mentioned the fact that a sizable proportion of the deaths in China were among men and that smoking among men men is common whereas uncommon among women. As an 81 year old male I'm glad I quit my one to two pack per day smoking habit way back in 1965. Smoking just seemed to be a dumb thing to do and a waste of money so one morning I never lit up that first smoke of the day and never looked back.
1
It is time to get serious about mitigation. It’s here. The only question now is how fast we let it spread. People are going on and on about how it’s not that lethal. But that is not the only important feature. It seems easy to catch and a lot of people get severely ill. These are huge problems. Even with Draconian mitigation in Wuhan, close to 80000 people were infected in short order. About 20% got pretty sick. Medical services were overwhelmed and they had a higher death rate at the epicenter. Anything approaching this and US cities would be quickly overwhelmed. And we have barely begun mitigation measures. Or testing for that matter. Looking at the pics of patient transfer, we look like rank amateurs despite weeks to prep. We are not great again. We are not great. We are in trouble.
18
@Pigsy
It's quite lethal - much more so than the flu. And there's no vaccine. You have no immunity to it until you've had it and survived.
Counting cases very much depends on the intensity of testing given that we are in the flu seasons and symptoms are very similar.
The USA has completely failed to test for the corona virus over an extended period of time and still hardly does tests now.
Italy seemed to have failed in that respect for 2 weeks and we are seeing the results now. The USA have failed for twice as long and counting.
Expect figures to go up significantly in the coming days, especially if tests are actually free of charge. Because charging for them will make many people reluctant to find out.
12
This is a hot mess. I hate this case counting. It’s Heat. The CDC flubbed this one MAJORLY. They should have been doing surveillance from around the first of February. In ALL states. If a patient tested negative for all known CV and flu, it’s a strong chance of being Covid
5
I think the issue, with the US, is that only those who can afford extra medical bills will go to the hospital to get checked. Many will avoid it to avoid extra expenses.
Therefore, the measures to contain the virus could be less effective than those put in effect in the rest of the world.
22
@Spyros Wrong. Right now the US is only testing those with travel history from hotspots, or people that have links to confirmed infections. This is the protocol now as we don't have much testing capability, but our capacity to test is increasing and so we will test more. It has nothing to do with health insurance. I have health insurance. If I go to my doctor with cold/flu symptoms he will ask me if I've been to China, Korea, Italy, etc. I have not. So he will test me for flu and then probably tell me to rest and recover. He will not test me for coronavirus as my primary care physician does not even have the ability to do so.
3
Yep. I am meeting either or Health Dept today, trying to set up a way of getting cases counted via free spot testing. This is gross negligence and why private pay (or no pay if you are poor) insurance is broken. It only serves the rich
6
@Not 99pct
That's mostly true, but it's not true that "It has nothing to do with health insurance."
Your doctor will tell you NOTHING AT ALL if you have no doctor.
Doing quick numbers... and not to frighten anyone, but if there are two deaths in the US at around a 2% mortality rate, we can theorize that there are roughly 100 infected people and that is only because these two deaths have been certified as COVID-19 related and not misattributed to the influenza or another infectious diseases. Some of the "new" cases have been determined as community transmitted rather than from an identifiable source as well, leading me to suspect that we might have a huge hike in numbers as has happened in other countries the moment massive testing is done.
It might be a good time to strengthen the national campaign on how to calmly prepare in terms of supplies, school, and work as well as what to do if any of us has symptoms. This is not about panicking or blaming anyone but rather to maintain the community informed and be able to make rational decisions.
11
@Glo Considering they think that there might be up to1500 people infected in Washington State alone the mortality rate is much lower. In Korea, once they started testing everyone, the fatalities fell to .5%. That 2% figure is not accurate and should not be relied upon.
6
@Jonny Walker, you are correct! That said, we are all relying on information that is changing, and will continue to change from day to day. I would prefer for the mortality rate to be as low as possible. Keep in mind that deaths can also go up when the cause is determined correctly.
In either case, it is not a bad idea to know how to prepare and make sure that contagion but also mortality risks are minimized as much as possible.
3
@Jonny Walker It isn’t just the mortality rate in general that is crucial to know but also who is at high risk and what measures are being taken to protect them.
The elderly seem to be at high risk. Mohammad Mirmohammadi , atop adviser to Ayatollah Ali Khamenei recently died.His age? 71. Another member of his family also died.
Health workers also seem to be getting ill, even younger ones, who supposedly have stronger immune systems than the elderly. This is what happened to the “whistleblower” doctor in China. He was 32 but still died. The theory is that frequent exposure to the virus may be a significant factor in the severity of the disease.
The selection of Mike Pence to lead the national effort to deal with this problem makes it clear the administration thinks COVID-19 is a political problem, not a medical one.
As other writers have pointed out, aggressive testing will be an essential step in understanding the spread and isolating the patients early enough to do any good. The resulting increase in reported cases may not be good politically, but it will be medically.
13
The virus is far more widespread than we are being told.
I'm hearing from real people in Germany, telling me that thousands of people in Germany are infected. But this information is barely showing up in any news reports.
And certainly China isn't being open and honest about the numbers they are reporting.
We really have no idea how many people in the U.S. are infected. Once the testing begins it appears the numbers here will leap dramatically.
18
@John Adams
If your 'real people' are reporting accurately, the only explanation is that the German government is wilfully falsifying numbers.
D'you think that's likely? Or is it MORE likely that your claims are just more hype?
1
I spent a few hours with someone who was in Italy for three weeks. He got sick (flu ?) while he was there, I got sick a week after I met him, (flu?) We both recovered and didn’t give it a second thought. I live alone and am a homebody.
Maybe we both had the coronavirus.
10
@New World I'm sure you did. I'm not even kidding. And that is really kind of what people are missing. 32 million cases of the flu this year in the US and 18,000 deaths. If they reported on every one of those deaths none of us would ever leave the house. I own an apartment in Milan and I got a very weird viral illness in early February as did most of my friends (I've had the flu shot ever year for decades and I haven't had the flu in 25 years, except in 2009, probably swine flu). It supposedly has been around in Milan since at least mid-January. We also never gave it a second thought. Pretty sure I've had it too.
6
@New World
Maybe, yes. In a competent country, like South Korea, you would have been one of thousands tested. It's almost comical that while we recommend against travel to South Korea because they are actually able to test and detect, we have no problem having people travel to and from our own cities most likely simply because we are so inept at conducting testing and therefore incapable of detecting the likely de facto presence of this thing all over the place.
5
Can’t wait to see what happens when this virus hits the US prison and jail populations. My first guess is that authorities really won’t care about it or won’t address it as a serious issue. Second, how could such populations be successfully quarantined? Just a matter of time before it occurs.
8
@PJ I've been wondering the same thing about homeless people on the streets or living in homeless shelters.
1
@PJ - A bigger issue would be the 10,000 homeless people in this city.
1
@PJ
And nursing homes and...
A coworker of my husband's lives in Washington State in the same town as the nursing home where there has been one death. Her entire family, three children under 7 years old and her husband are sick and she has bronchitis. It is quite possible that they all have coronavirus, but there are no kits, so they cannot be tested. This is a young, active family, so they had to have been out and about being exposed and exposing others before they actually came down with their illnesses. The U.S. is scarily underprepared for this outbreak, the numbers are much lower than what is going on because there aren't enough kits and Americans and their doctors are not getting the information they need to deal with this crisis.
15
The wise leader would have told the populace, "This the time for American men, women, boys and girls; Republican or Democrat; Liberal or Conservative to come together and fight this thing. At least we can mitigate the virulence of the virus, and reduce the number of people infected."
But Trump did not do that. Since last week, Trump went off on the Democrats, MSNBC, Chuck Schumer, Bernie Sanders, Mike Bloomberg, et al. Trump is banging the political drum, not the other guys.
He should have said, "We're getting more test kits out. We are manufacturing more masks. Here's my epidemiologist who is going to talk about things like public crowds, air travel, and hand sanitizer. We're all in this together. Let's try to help each other."
But Trump the narcissist and nakedly political creature is incapable of talk like that.
In addition, producing goods and services for the marketplace and buying them is inimical to addressing an epidemic. Not to mention that talk of unity will foster talk about healthcare for everyone.
This is a "supply side" problem in the economy. Hence, lowering interest rates and other financial legerdemain will not help all that much. This makes the present economy intractable.
Factories are being shut down across the globe. Services, especially travel will be affected. Inventories will drop, and then there will be nothing to sell. Leveraged companies will go bust. Then we'll have an economy like 2007-2008. Watch out, Pence.
17
@Wordsworth from Wadsworth
Precisely. This is not only a medical and financial crisis. It is an existential crisis, created by the lack of Alexandrian leadership (leadership from the front).
I think the severity of the situation hit home for the Trump Administration with the announcement of the first death. Allowing the states to test is a step in the right direction.
I hope Trump and company have gotten the message: Death is not a hoax. -- thegamesmenplay.com
What can our response be as this spreads in the undocumented community? They are invisible to some but because of their employment in all aspects of the food industry can effect and infect so many.
Tracing in this community will be futile.
Should a vaccine be developed, how would it be distributed to the marginalized who don't exist ?
As it gets into the communities described as 'the least of my brothers' Mathew 25, the poor, the prisoner, the homeless, the shut ins alone, where will we be?
7
It's human nature to panic, but I wish the media would not hype this disease as much as it is. I remember how the media, government, anyone in charge downplayed the Ebola outbreak 7 years ago. That was good policy then and now.
2
@Sue I distinctly remember a different response. Look up Trump's tweets then. Just google Ebola panic in US.
7
@Edgar Please, everyone, stop politicizing this (even if Trump does). It's simply good policy to remain calm and not hype this thing for ratings or poll numbers.
How is informing the country (since our own government doesn’t know what it’s doing) considered “hype”? I WANT to know this information!! I’m 63 and potentially could be seriously affected by this virus!!
2
I’m sorry— did I misunderstand the pronouncement of the very stable genius last week that we would shortly have no cases of the virus in the country because everyone of the 15 individuals he acknowledged as ill would shortly recover and then the country would be at zero infections? Are all of the cases that are now being identified figments of the imaginations of health officials across the country? Or perhaps the zero-infection pronouncement was the figment of imagination of an unstable mind.
13
I think that many readers miss the point when comparing the number of deaths from seasonal influenza with those of SARS-CoV-2.
Yes, insofar, way more people have died this year from the common flu. However, the CDC estimates between 32 and 45 million flu cases between October and the end of February; with a hospitalization rate around 1% and 18,000 to 46,000 related deaths (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm).
In comparison, at present we have around 3,000 COVID-19 deaths for only around 90,000 cases; and, with the current data, 19% of COVID patients developing severe or critical symptoms, compared to the 1% for the flu.
Thus, the concern is not about COVID-19 being as deadly as SARS or Ebola, but about it being highly contagious and apparently capable of acquiring prevalences similar to those of seasonal flus. This is to say, to be able to contain or slow it down so it does not infect a number of people in the flu range, because it has much higher mortality and hospitalization rates than the flu. Because, if most people would recover or suffer only mild symptoms, those numbers would translate in 700,000 to several millions of deaths.
6
@Luis Exactly right! The concern is that if COVID-19 becomes as prevalent as influenza the number of hospital cases and deaths will be substantially greater than seasonal flu.
Can the healthcare system handle that many serious respiratory infections?
8
@Luis The 90,000 cases is because they has not been widespread testing. Multiply that by ten and you might have the real number.
@Jonny Walker
Virologists and epidemiologists know how to do their math and, believe me, they have taken into account any factor or correction of which you may think. We already have pretty robust datasets, both from areas of high and low prevalence, and from regions with high-volume testing, like China and South Korea. With all possible corrections and controls, the lowest mortality rate estimate is 0.4%, or four times that of seasonal flu. And five to 19 times higher hospitalization rates than for the flu.
Which on the other hand is logical: this is the first wave of a highly infectious spillover for which basically 100% of the population is naive. If it becomes epidemic it will likely become attenuated in future waves, and probably will just be added to the list of our seasonal epidemics, like the flu. But the normal thing is that it is may more deadly in its first couple of waves, until that widespread habitual contact becomes the norm.
2
So far, the information about self-protection against coronavirus provided by the Trump government is somewhat unclear and misleading. Here are some practical tips for your-own safety:
1. You don't need a N95-grade mask, but wearing a mask is still protective, especially where people are crowded (like in mass transit).
2. Wash your hands properly and frequently, especially before eating/drinking and after going home.
3. Cover your mouth and nose by your elbow or interior of your clothes when coughing or sneezing.
4. Bring your own pen. Sharing pen with others is a frequent source of infection.
5. In regions where community-infection happen, keep some distance (3-5 ft) from others and avoid somewhere people are amassed.
6. Beware the health conditions of people around you.
7. Keep detailed record of your travel information: date, destination, bus/train/flight number, seat number, etc.
8. Don't press buttons in elevator with your hand.
9. Try to avoid taking mass transit in rush hours.
10. If you have chronic heart/lung/kidney/liver diseases, take medications and get good control of your underlying diseases.
9
Good suggestions. Here are a few more:
Press elevator buttons with the knuckle of your glove covered hand.
Wear gloves if you will be on an escalator and need to brace yourself. See if you feel stable bracing from the wrist.
If you wear a hat or cap, you won’t be getting hair blown into face, then unthinkingly brushing your hair and face.
Wear disposable or washable gloves if you ride a bus or other mass transit transport. Ditto for taxi or Uber.
Stay out of stadiums.
Try to stand 6 feet away from others in public.
5
@YC what about domestic flying where it’s not possible to be 4-6 ft away from people ?
@YC you forgot: "when in danger or in doubt, run around scream and shout"
I am an Asian-American, I am troubled by anti-Asian incidents in the US and other countries. If I wear a mask, I might be viewed as a virus carrier; if I don't wear a mask, someone might demand that I wear a mask since there are outbreaks in China, Korea, and Japan. I believe there are many Asian-Americans are in this catch-22 situation. What do I, we do?
14
@Lee
Many Asians travel to Asia to visit family and friends on a regular basis, and did so over the holidays. Given that Asia has been the epicenter of this virus since December, naturally there’s going to be a reaction. It’s unfortunate, but primal/survival instincts often surface in times like these.
What to do...maybe wear a button that says ‘virus-free zone’...or something humorous and light to reassure people.
@Lee - We have a fairly decent sized Asian community and it is common to see them wear masks all of the time. I would think nothing new. I just assumed they wear a mask if they catch a cold the same way I was taught to cough into my elbow rather than a hand. But as soon as I get paid, I'm going to the Chinese market to get some more coffee:) And then, I might go to Chinatown for dinner. I have neighbors in my building that were born and raised in China. One was a doctor there and is studying here. She is better at medicine than her teachers:))
6
Fortunately it is common to see people in Chicago wearing neck scarves and breathing into them. You can do that, even if it is a cotton or silk scarf.
Unhealthy older people are more at risk than the population in general.
An obese older man under lots of stress with bad eating habits and bad medical advice should avoid rallies in packed auditoriums.
34
Most people,over age 60 are reported to have at least one underlying health condition. Many need to discuss it with their docs.
3
Trump didn't appoint a 'coronavirus czar', and put Pence in charge instead. The speculation is that Trump prioritized loyalty over anything else.
It's equally likely that no one with the knowledge or skills to serve in that role was willing to do it, knowing that Trump would contradict and overrule them.
3
"community-spread"
That's the catch-all phrase, I guess, for the spread of coronavirus when people have "no known risk factors".
Okay. I give up. If people with "no known risk factors" are contracting the virus, and we are told that travel from this country or that one is being curtailed, and that those who do present 'high risk' are being tested (and presuming that the tests themselves have a reasonably high accuracy rate), then theoretically we should not be seeing much in the way of...community spread. And before someone even tries to scold me: These tests are designed to catch people---yes---even while they are asymptomatic.
So, who's not being honest?
And it still begs the question: With all of this 'community spread', is it possible the virus has developed in some new, or 'novel', way? Perhaps from infected livestock making its way here, in the way it was poultry that first infected Wuhan, China?
Right now, the infection rate is less, much less, than your average annual seasonal flu. Imagine the scary headlines that could be generated if we were hearing about the tens-of-thousands flu victims announced just that very day! That is exactly how the flu migrates nearly every year in this country.
Which is to say, right now I am not an alarmist. But reading the tea leaves of mass behavior right now, one can't help but envisage a mass quarantine of the entire country if some sort of...discipline...isn't effected, and soon.
2
@David Bartlett , the high risk people are being "screened," not tested. There has been very little testing in the U.S. Widespread testing was only approved on Saturday, and now labs have to ramp up. Needless to say, it is pathetic when a small country like South Korea has 100x the testing capability of the U.S.
2
If we take the yearly average number of regular flu deaths we have in the US, a country with 300 million people (30,000 deaths on average) and extrapolate that to China, a country of 1.5B, it comes down to 150,000 yearly deaths from the common flu. That's roughly 25,000 Chinese dead each month for 6 months on any given year.
Now consider that China has been able to maintain the total death toll from COVID-19, a much more dangerous and deadly virus, to ONLY 1,000 deaths per month.
Would you consider that bad news, or good news? Because I happen to think that's pretty darn awesome news. I look at the NY Times map, and I see terrific news. The map pretty much shows how amazingly few cases and so few deaths we've had in the entire world. Yet the Times (and the entire media) has decided to cover it all under the guise of terrible news. It is not.
Yes, governments should do anything in their power to stop this, and they are doing it. Unless we end up having 80,000 deaths in this country (which is the number of deaths we had in the 2017-2018 season from a regular flu, when no one even noticed or cared), then we've already won this battle against COVID-19.
I guess one could argue the reason we're winning is precisely because we're so paranoid about it. That may be. But that doesn't mean the Times shouldn't treat their headlines with a dash of positive reality once in a while, instead of constant negative spin.
6
@JULIAN. Let's suppose that a mass shooter killed 100 people every day. Then some new mass shooter comes along and kills an additional 20 people per day. Is that a victory--especially when you knew the new mass shooter was coming and did next to nothing to stop him?
4
The Corona virus outbreak is beginning to resemble the Spanish Influenza outbreak in 1918.
Known and unknown sources of contracting the virus
Not enough medical tests available
No vaccines available
Panic and misinformation continues to spread almost as fast as the virus itself.
Similar errors and mistakes in judgement made over a century ago continue to be made today.
7
Person contacted virus in Florida had been in Italy recently. The Florida governor has asked anyone coming from Italy to self quarantine themself for 14 days. This is how we deal with this issue? You really think people will self quarantine themselves and not go to work or out in public for 14 days? This doesn't seem like a very good plan.
9
Yesterday I read that it is difficult to accurately assess the number of COVID-19 cases in the general population or its mortality rate because many people carrying the virus are experiencing mild or no symptoms.
So I must ask:
How can the degree of COVID-19 spread be accurately determined if the population at large is not being broadly tested...or at least being strongly encouraged to volunteer to be tested if they are experiencing what might otherwise be called “mild symptoms”?
I can’t remember the last time I visited a healthcare provider when I had what I’d assumed was “the flue”, let alone “a cold”...unless my coughing was severe enough that I suspected strep. You basically hunker down, stay home from work if you can and suffer until it passes...sleeping, drinking fluids and washing your hands a lot. Taking an anti-viral med like Tamiflu is a good idea but you don’t need to go to a doctor for that.
Will there now be mandatory testing for COVID-19 when we head over to the local CVS to pick up Benadryl, Sudafed or Tamiflu? Will the CDC end up enlisting Amazon to distribute “bedside” tests to anyone who requests one, free of charge?
Right now I am hearing NOTHING from my employer, healthcare provider, healthcare insurance provider...let alone the CDC, the President or the presidential candidates.
Epidemiological background data matters...doesn’t it...or is this just a “back-burner” concern?
4
This job needs a new approach before thousands die or the economy tanks. My guess is that it takes money, a slogan, and power. The people running the job don’t have much to run with. Administrative bungling, money, and a slogan are in the hands of the parsimonious. Socialism is hardly a medical solution. The authority running the quarantine, how brilliant? The virus will spread.
...meanwhile Iran Air flights to major European cities continue. What sort of containment is this?
3
Numbers are under reported everywhere. Look at Washington State... It takes time to organize proper testing routines and uncover cases.
What worries me is Japan. Does anyone else find it strange that a country so heavily reliant on Chinese tourism and so densely populated only has a little more than 200 cases (excluding the Diamond Princess Cruise Ship cases)?
NYT told us Korea tests 10 000 people a day while Japan only 2000. People with mild symptoms are told to stay home and rest and are not being tested. I know that from a Japanese source in Tokyo.
Is it possible that with so much at stake (Tokyo Olympics and an economy that's been wobbly for a while), the Japanese government is endangering its population, and the world?
2
It’s clear that little has been done to test for or control corvid-19 and the cases will spread. The spin from the White House will rely on continuing to minimize testing so there will be fewer declared cases. Trump doesn’t want to be seen as responsible for an exponential spread, so denial of cases will be his fallback strategy.
13
There is a huge difference between panic-stricken and being prepared.
I am doing my level best to be as prepared as I can, just in case this virus hits closer to home than I would want.
My husband and I already have a healthy food supply on hand (canned as well as frozen) in addition to various medical supplies which we would probably use sometime within the 2024 expiration date listed.
Most importantly, we exercise great caution when it comes to being diligent in washing our hands and wiping down door knobs in our building with alcohol.
Let's face it - at least for today and probably the very near future, there is only so much preventative stuff one can do. Common sense plays a big role. I keep reminding myself to breath, relax, and to take each day as it comes. I am the very first person I know who is extremely prone to overreacting and become scared over something that I have little control over.
17
The CDC publishes exceptionally detailed flu statistics for the United States. At present the flu is widespread (the highest category) throughout every state and territory except Oregon and, interestingly, DC, where the rates are at the second highest category. CDC estimates that so far this season in the United States there have been at least 32 million flu illnesses, 310,000 hospitalizations and 18,000 deaths from flu. A little perspective please with respect to Coronavirus. Something to watch, yes. Something to panic about, no. Further, Coronavirus is no more of a partisan political issue than the flu o the common cold is.
5
@Wilbur Clark
We already have a flu season that is worse than usual. If the coronavirus is equal to the flu in contagion and illness, it will still cause more infections and deaths because we have no vaccine and no one has immunity from prior exposure.
If the coronavirus is worse than the flu (which it currently appears to be) it will not merely double what the flu is doing but possibly triple or quadruple it.
That is the problem. A bad flu season alone is enough to fill hospital beds. ICU units were at their limit back in 2017-2018 when we had a severe flu season.
Having two separate illnesses that can cause severe respiratory distress is a problem.
Our government needs to quickly ramp up the number of beds and equipment so hospitals can keep functioning. And we need to slow this virus down, break the chain of transmission as much as possible, so that hospitals are not overwhelmed.
15
@Wilbur Clark
Did you miss the part about the CDC saying it was just beginning in the US? So far, we don't know how bad it will get.
In the meantime, our government was caught unprepared and understaffed for this issue. So far, its statements have not been very reassuring.
I don't know why so many are accusing others of "panic". I see no panic. I see concern borne of government ineptitude.
And another thing- I would suggest you concern yourself with Canadian issues.
5
@Jerseytime The vast majority of Canada's population is spread out along the US border. CDC stats for the US are usually directly applicable to this population. The Trudeau government nicely fits in to the NYT editorial page. They are being hammered from the right for their CoV response. It's just not political.
"As spread of virus slows in China, it picks up speed in the U.S."
The continual, incomprehensible denial and outright intentionally misleading statements by both the Trump administration, and even the CDC, is stunning.
Yes the virus is picking up speed, but TESTING is also significantly picking up speed more importantly. The CDC literally sat on their hands with respect to testing for 6 weeks. Still only a handful of people in New York have even been tested. It is NOT a coincidence that countries with the most testing have the most cases, e.g. South Korea, and yet we think we are doing something by banning travel to South Korea while having 20 CDC staff members try to track down contacts of the one case that was actually tested in CA. We are WAY behind the eight ball. This thing has already like spread in a massive way and we have no DATA because the Trump/Pence catastrophe would prefer NOT to test so that we can continue to claim we have few cases.
Once testing hits full-swing, detection will hit full swing and we will quickly see that the international crossroads that are our major cities are in fact not immune to viral particles. I honestly believe we already have thousands and thousands of people infected...I also believe that the mortality ratio will be quite low.
We need data.
And don't believe the lies that say an N95 mask will not help you. Of course it will. But our health care workers need them more than you.
33
Given the long incubation period during which people are contagious we can expect to see a full fledged epidemic in one month. Health care workers should be tested monthly.
7
Tell ya what: I’ll agree to believe everything you say, IF you can a) explain what “N95,” means without looking it up, and b) explain why wearing one protects you. In precise detail.
@Robert ok.
fyi, I wear an N95 routinely as part of my job.
N95 is simply an indication of the quality of the filter in the mask and the design of how close fitting the mask is. If the mask can filter out 95% of tiny particles that mask testers throw at it, it gets that designation.
how does wearing one protect you? well the fewer virus-carrying droplets that the person next to you who has the virus and is coughing in your direction get into your nostrils or your mouth, the less likely you are to get the infection. when your nose and mouth are covered by a barrier, the less likely you are to get your dirty fingers inside of your nostrils and mouth, and the less likely you are to get an infection. Masks are protective barriers to the entry route of respiratory pathogens. it's not rocket science.
1
I’m not sure why this panic, didn’t Trump say this is a media hoax? If the president says this is a hoax then it must be a hoax, just ask the families of the people who have supposedly died, or is that hoax also.
15
@Lou Panico: crisis actors, right?
I would never trust Chinese gov't announcements referring to Covid19, they have lied about everything important for too long.
HERE's an idea: what about air traffic, which we can gauge from satellites: are there more planes in the air over China than two weeks ago?
5
A Trumpist had best avoid the topic of government lyong.
You mean like the graphic of Chinese Air travel that the Times had up most of last week?
1
At that point , we can only assume that all nations past and new infections cases are mostly involuntarily , and voluntary undermined. With our current US authoritarian/mafia like administration , we, can only hope for the worst...
2
Trump said this was hoax and put a former radio host in charge of the American response. Where is Jon Stewart?
12
Some people are saying John Stewart emigrated to Rwanda a lovely country with an efficiently functioning government. This is in stark contrast to the US.
4
I'm surprised to see flights arriving into the US from South Korea into airports like McCarran in Las Vegas, an airport that is not equipped to screen arrivals.
10
Dear Federal Government:
Please act quickly and without grandiosity and partisanship.
And when you have done your best work fighting the virus, please turn, use science, and address the other pending crisis with a 100% mortality rate: global warming.
Thank you. - A Law-Abiding Tax Payer
16
People should keep tier nails cut short too....a LOT of bacteria/viruses can escape normal hand cleaning, under nails....
8
Mr. Mulvaney says, unlike SARS and MERS, “people don’t die”.
Donald Trump, Jr., says the Democrats hope millions die to give them an issue.
I think it would be in poor taste for Mr. Mulvaney and Mr. Trump, Jr., to attend any of the funerals the 3,100 deceased.
It would lack truth and authenticity.
7
Don’t worry, they’ll steer clear of expressing empathy in any way. That’s one thing we can count on.
3
This is going to be a disaster for two reasons. First the Red States are led for the most part by ignorant Evangelical fanatics who believe that Bible rather than science should be the basis for app decisions. Second, the federal government is now not high but a personality cult devoted to ensuring that everything is about making sure Trump looks good. When this disease reaches the Red Welfare States, officials there will hide bad news so that Trump doesn’t look bad.
21
@Sterling They ill just blame it on Democrats, and every single Republican voter will believe them.
1
Why is the CDC website so slow to post updates? As of this morning, it is updated through February 29. On top of inadequate testing we are getting slow CDC updates. There's far more information on recent cases in the news media.
7
The image that keeps returning to me is Trump throwing paper towels into a crowd in Puerto Rico after the hurricane. The administration is incapable of doing anything that matters. They can't tell the truth; they are totally incompetent (it would be as if ran things. but I would know I don't know anything). They are arrogant and ignorant. They are only good at deflecting and throwing insults.
So we really are in the dark. What to do. How serious is this. My nose is running. I have a small cough. For real. I do. Does that mean much of anything. Does it mean a lot. It it means a lot my love to everyone. If it is just the run of the mill not even a cold my love to everyone also.
8
Trump has no leadership or management skills to address this spreading pandemic and calm the public (and the markets). His only “skill” – that of casting blame – will likely take a darker turn, and he will start blaming blue states like Washington and California for spreading the virus into “America” -- i.e., his base of red states. And the accelerant he will use to fuel the fear and turn the American public against themselves and deflect from his ignorance and non-leadership will include immigration and sanctuary cities.
7
From what I can see, it would help a lot of folks stopped playing Armchair Scientist and Junior Statistician, and maybe even factchecked their claims before they sound off.
I don’t expect that’ll happen, but some of the guff I’m reading and hearing really says that it’d be nice. I’d especially appreciate it if folks’d stop taking an absence of evidence as proof of anything, and stopped with the “Hey, PRESTO!” solutions, as in, “Just test everybody and then we’ll know and let’s just use the vaccine and I bet those drugs they tried in Thailand would cure everybody,” as though you can wave a wand and the pumpkins start turning into medical supplies.
Oh, well. Wash yer hands a lot, wipe the tray table down if you get on a plane, stay home if you get sick, and please stop getting suckered into buying masks you don’t actually need.
6
The biggest threat of the virus in the U.S. is the dishonesty and incompetence of this administration.
Hopefully it can be managed more locally for most — but if your respective governors and mayors are Trump supporters, beware of what they tell you.
9
Even Brownie would likely do a heck of a lot better job of handling this than the Trump Admin. But maybe its main medical and science czars Drs. Hannity and Limbaugh will be coming-up with a cure for the virus soon. I see a Nobel Prize in Medicine in their future...perhaps at the same time Trump gets his Peace Prize.
11
When are evangelicals like Pence going to say this plague is God's punishment for something bad we've done? You know they're thinking it.
Possible reasons could be supporting a blatant sinner like Trump, not likely; or brought upon us by those ungodly Democrats, more likely.
How did America end up in the grip of such lunacy?
10
@Angstrom Unit
It's not punishment. It IS the End of Days. You know, that prophecy in that book of ancient fairy tales that he touts about as "the word of (some) god?"
And as far as that goes, there's a part of the prophecy that goes something like: ......everyone will perish except those who "believe".... which means Pence is welcoming the end of days, because he's immune to the crisis. So sit back and relax. You might die, but he won't. His wife either.
1
Three thousand people were alive and now they are dead.
If you are selfish you think, well it didn't happen to me. Or it might not happen to me.
But every one of those people represent a story to someone. A loved one. A preventable death.
18
It’s interesting that Hawaii has no reported cases (apparently).
3
@King Of The Beach
The virus is too busy surfing to go around infecting people there.
In depth article 2/29 by NYT reporter Knvul Sheikh about the lack of testing kits in the U.S. despite explosion of infections around the world. Government was caught napping. No wonder Trump gloated over the weekend about a lack of confirmed U.S. cases, we were nearly out of kits to test all last week and the few that were out there were held in reserve for friends and family.
6
I just read that there has been case for the coronavirus in Florida where I live. I am staying home from work today because I have all of the symptoms of a seasonal flu, not because of concern about the virus. I imagine that there are millions like myself feeling the same way across the country this morning. It would be fruitless and a waste of time for me to go to clinic where there are no testing mechanisms in place for the coronavirus. After I submit this comment, I'm going back to bed bemoaning the fact that I never got that common flu shot at CVS this year. I hope a similar shot for the coronavirus will be around at the local pharmacy's clinic for the next flu season. I am doubtful. This country should look to China and corroborate with their centers for disease control to speed up the process. Surely they are ahead of the game on the detection, treatment and prevention of the virus. We don't need to be in a trade war with them on this one when we are all fighting a possible battle for our lives this flu season or subsequent ones.
4
@HP
When you're feeling better and no longer contagious...mayeb attend a Trump rally and discover what this genius has to offer for another 4 years?
1
Get a grip already, people.
The S&P 500 is UP by 43.56 points as of 10:56 AM ET. That's 1.47%.
The administration's plan is working. Relax.
3
You are solely judging the administration’s plan by the stock market. How quaint and tragic.
7
@Black Goose
What "plan"?
And pray tell, how does an increasing stock market guard against a communicable disease?
6
@Aras Paul, @Jerseytime
My apologies. I thought the irony in my comment was self evident.
By the way, even as the S&P is now (12:54 pm ET) up about 2.7% from the open at 9:30 am, the UK FTSE barely rose during the same period. It almost makes you think some powerful agency might be working to inflate US stock prices. Almost.
2
Dear NYT, thank you for providing the most accurate and up to the minute information regarding the Corona virus. However, please tone it down. I'm sure it's generating a lot of clicks, but it's not helpful.
4
Not to worry, Trump has appointed Pence to head up the looming COVID-19 ciris. VP Pence is close to God, he will simply pray away the virus and we will all be safe. And if that fails, Pence will blame gay marriage.
8
I was grocery shopping yesterday and appalled at the hygiene of so many with respect to ordinary colds, etc: a woman repeatedly wiping her nose and holding her dirty tissue as she pushed a shopping cart with same hand and examined items from shelves with that same hand before returning them to shelves, people coughing into their hands or worse into the air while right next to other shoppers, people wiping noses without a tissue. Please, be considerate!
30
How can there be quarantines on flights to italy and south korea, and yet no air travel is stopped to and from china which has 25 times the amount of deaths and cases. Is this about money or ignorance
4
The new “normal”? Increasingly more of this virus kind of thing and a coastline 25 miles further inland...Mother Earth is ticked and she’s taking no prisoners...
6
Who wants to bet the lords of the US healthcare industry are licking their chops at the potential tsunami of profits on the backs of Americans who may get ill from this virus?
7
@Tres Leches
I suspect that the company that comes up with a vaccine will try to charge exorbitant prices for it. Along the lines of the epipen.
1
The PCR test has been developed for all sorts of flu viruses not specific enough for the current virus outbreak. Even with that, the test gives as high as 40% false-negative reading and the hospital requires 2 or 3 times negative tests before discharging. So we don't know how many people are infected because we are just start to test now and there is a tendency that the more test we do, the more people are infected lumping together all sorts of virus infections especially there is trace back to the epidemic centers.
According to the Nuclear acids sequence, there are 5 groups of coronavirus associated with the current outbreak; the US have all 5 groups- A, B, C, D, E, and the Chinese outbreak is caused mainly by C which a mutation from the group A and B originated from the US.
1
@tedc
PCR is a TECHNIQUE - not a flu test. And, PCR can, and usually is, very accurate.
Coronavirus is, well, coronavirus, NOT 'flu virus.
The Chinese have moved onto 3rd generation Covid-19 tests which are very reliable.
The rest of your post is just pseudoscience mumbo jumbo - presubaly an attempt to convince US citizens that there'll be no American Covid issues.
And it's NUCLEIC acid - not 'nuclear acid'.
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What does ‘prepare’ for Coronavirus mean exactly? Kind of nebulous, like ‘be best.’ What concrete steps can individuals take?
Also, I assume we’ll be stuck with deductibles, co-pays, and out-of-pocket expenses.
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@itsmildeyes
You can help yourself to the voluminous amount of information on the CDC website, where there are checklists. Maybe we should think about billing China for this mess?
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@Lyn Robins
Sure. Lets find an entire nation to blame for a disease. We need to have enemies, so as to distract us from our government's performance on the problem.
After all, We Have Always Been at War with Eurasia.
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@itsmildeyes Be prepared? I'm stocking up on ammo so I can get mine when all of society breaks down.
By the time the first vaccine is available there will be multiple strains of the virus and the original vaccine may not be effective on all of them so reducing the Ro to below one will require continuous vaccine development along with regular, mandatory vaccinations. This virus is much more serious than a flu due to its higher Ro and mortality rate so a mandatory vaccination programs will need to be implemented around the world. Also, we know nothing about how rapidly it mutates. If its mutation rate is higher than the flu virus then we’re even further behind the 8 ball.
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Mike Pence was too busy raising money over the weekend to deal with the exponential increases in cases. Trump and his team aren't anywhere near serious yet, and they probably won't do a thing until their poll numbers drop.
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Four weeks ago I had a virus that went directly to the chest, coughing, dry at first, aches, fever. Stayed home a week and it went away. Would be nice to know if it was the corona virus.
Meanwhile, at the doctor's office, they have these new check in iPad things so each patient must touch the screen in order to check in. That new check in process seems, um, foolhardy.
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Wow! So they are verifying your identity. My employer did something like that to control medical costs. We were required to submit a marriage certificate for a spouse and birth certificates for children. A couple of dozen “spouses” were removed and about 200 children for about 2000 employees. Why would someone claim their friend’s wife or children for insurance coverage?
Because medical care is so expensive & hard to get in this country. So maybe very close friend has child with medical issues & friend cannot afford insurance. Or maybe friendly ex spouses keep partner on insurance. It’s more a comment on the state of in insurance in USA.
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@Bev Yep. Touching a screen instead of speaking to a human to check in at a medical office is simply nuts. But that's how we do business now! AI replacing humans wherever/whenever possible. I encountered that getting a blood test a few months back and was completely appalled. Oh, there was some hand sanitizer, and a sign advising people to use it, but it was on a wall, above eye level, about 7 feet away from the check in pad. I keep a stylus pen with me all the time now.
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Unlike other developed countries, we do not have universal healthcare or paid sick leave, or child care. What about the 30 million uninsured who can’t afford treatment? And hourly workers who can’t afford to take time off from work?
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@Edie Clark Add to that another group. Illegal immigrants. If there afraid to fill out a census, does anyone think they'll seek medical attention for flu like symtoms.
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Hubei Province in China is the epicenter of Covid-19. It has nearly 60 million residents.
Of these 60 million residents, about 70,000 have tested positive for Covid-19 and about 3,000 have died.
Let’s assume the actual number of cases is undercounted by a factor of 10. In other words, 700,000 people actually contracted Covid-19, but 630,000 weren’t tested.
Even with this extreme assumption, it means that only about 1.1 out of every 100 people have/had Covid 19. And it would also drive the mortality rate from about 4 percent to about 0.4 percent, a bit more than the flu each year.
Again, for perspective, only 3,000 people out of 60 million have died. That’s not 1%, not 0.1%, or even .01%.
In the mostly highly impacted area in the world by far.
Word of advice – beware of fear mongers.
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@John
0.4% is exactly the rate reported for the rest of China outside the Wuhan area. However, that 0.4% is not "a bit more than the flu each year." It is four times more.
The concern is that SARS-CoV-2 right now appears highly contagious, similar or even more than flu strains; and thus preventing it from spreading to epidemic proportions. As you mention, the prevalence in the affected regions in China is not even in the same ballpark than the flu's; but on the other hand, that low prevalence was achieved after extreme preventative measures, that would be very hard to impose here.
Thus I wholeheartedly agree with you in the "don't panic" part. But I think that going to the other extreme and trivializing it may be an even bigger mistake. It is a very serious and dangerous disease, and any measure we take to contain it as much as possible will be worth the effort.
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I think the NYT has reported that the coronavirus is 2 to 4 times more infectious than the usual flu
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@John Why do you pick the entire province to get your 60 million figure? Why not anyone within 5 miles of the epicenter? What percent of those people were infected? So far it appears that many infected people infect another 4 before they are quarantined. Do the math.
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Honestly, the infection rate is probably much, much higher than reported, since you have to be tested to get the differential diagnosis for regular flu. my bet is that COVID-19 is no worse than a bad flu virus. But, hey, I guess the media needs to hype it to sell ads and try to the down Trump.
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@QED - The local FOX affiliate must be trying to bring down Trump since most of their front page is about the coronavirus in this city.
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The best thing to do is to try not to panic and let the fear of the unknown get the best of you. Educate yourselves. Do the bits that you can to prepare, like having some extra food and cash on hand, etc. Do the hygiene measures suggested, but try to make peace with the fact that not everything is under our control. And put things in perspective. We all are at risk every day that we wake up for something to harm or kill us. If you drive, you don't panic every day about getting into an accident. Just live life, be kind, love one another, and be glad you are here right now.
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Widespread testing was not approved until Saturday. And due to a federal leadership vacuum, state and local governments are forced to take the lead. Unfortunately most are failing. Schools should be closed in the Seattle area and public gatherings should be banned, right now. (But they will wait until next week--too late)
Due to government ineptitude, expect COVID-19 to flourish in your area soon. Get your supplies now before any panic buying of the type currently occurring in the Seattle area.
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@tanstaafl
To be fair, I do not think that this administration's ineptitude (evident as it is) is the only factor to blame or worry about. I do not think that our health system (private, highly asymmetrical and atomized) is the best one to confront epidemic crises.
I was listening to Spanish news this morning, and Spain's Government was instructing anybody with flu-like symptoms in some high risk areas to stay home AND phone their healthcare center, instead of heading there. And then they send to the patient's home a healthcare professional to examine them and collect the swaps for testing.
Of course they have a robust public healthcare system, and I think common sense measures like those would be impossible to implement here, with our expensive and decentralized one.
3
@tanstaafl - A lot of schools have shut down here already due to possible infection. And I have not noticed any kind of panic buying at the stores. When I hit the large market on Saturday the Girl Scouts were selling cookies. And once inside, there was a table offering a new rewards card to everyone that walks in. I'm not sure where you are getting your news from.
1
With two deaths in a Seattle suburb, cellphone records could provide state healthcare professionals information about everyone that came within 6 feet of those two individuals during the past two weeks. Should that information be used to save lives?
Do you send nurses knocking on doors or do you send police officers?
I live in China. And I lived in Battery Park on September 11, 2001. People in China are pulling together like New Yorkers did two decades ago.
Let's not use tragedy as an opportunity to critique economic systems.
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The hope is that, behind the Pence’s and Trump’s, there are experts using science to engage this beast. If what we’ve seen out front yapping is all we have going for us, we’re in deep trouble...
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This is no surprise. Temperatures are warming and all bets are off. The visible world will be altered, so, why not the invisible as well? Setting aside Trump’s April promise, that which used to be killed off by winter, may now survive to then thrive in spring and summer. While serious, this is not the equal of the Black Death or the Spanish Flu. Given time and a little more heat, the next one might be. Definitely not the time for climate and science deniers to be in charge of protecting the castle. We need real leadership that’s smarter than the virus.
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It's a shame: I trust this Administration's reporting on the Coronavirus matter about as much as I would China's or Iran's. Fortunately, we have a free press and some courageous whistleblowers who have stepped up to the plate. November is right around the corner now, it's time for a government we can trust, or this could get out of control.
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I've been sick with a virus that's going around in my area and lot of people are sick with it. I was misdiagnosed by a doctor at the local walk in clinic who said I had bronchitis and gave me an antibiotic. This resulted in no change except for me being knocked out by the meds. Finally my doctor came back from holiday and I was prescribed something for the cough and puffers. It's not gone but it's finally getting better. At no time did anyone suggest I had the Covid virus, because the symptoms weren't the same. I'm following common sense procedures such as hand washing, drinking lots of liquids, eating well and staying away from crowded places and sick people. I'm doing what it takes to make sure this doesn't regress. I think the Covid virus should be taken seriously as it is different from seasonal flu in many ways, but I don't think that anyone who sneezes should panic or be ostracized because of the overabundance of information and (misinformation) being plastered all over the internet. As usual, the president is downplaying anything that will affect his re-election and not only denying but obstructing any scientific efforts to track the numbers and do the actual work to lessen its impact in the US. Maybe he hopes Pence can pray it all away. Another worry about this administration is that information will be suppressed, including numbers of confirmed cases. Or written off as a plot to destroy Trump.
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America is about to find our how well its health care "system" works for the masses. It will be a culling operation.
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"U.S. Scrambles"
If we didn't waste trillions of dollars over the years on a bloated defense budget the headline would read U.S. fully prepared to fight coronavirus."
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Being quarantined SHOULD make citizens concerned. Your basic rights to move about will be taken from you for at least 2 weeks. Not having toilet paper is a real issue happening in locked down areas. What is terrifying is thinking how this country will react to that level of panic. The CDC is trying to help us, not hinder us but the measures taken to control this outbreak may do more harm than we know.
The titanic is starting to fill up with water folks.
@Ryan - If I run out of toilet paper, I can just jump in the shower. And its late winter in Seattle. I have no issue with being inside for two weeks or more. I have food growing in the closets under lights, Chaka Khan on Youtube, my weights, and a nice safe place to sleep at night.
I would rather be in Seattle right now than in Syria.
We do not have the facts about the spread of Covid-19 and the government response, because Trump has muzzled the CDC.
Instead, Trump and his minions send Trump, Jr. to preempt criticism of Trump's ineptitude, by falsely claiming that Democrats want people to die; and then send Pence to the Sunday talk shows to defend Jr. and tell us all that there is nothing to worry about.
Governor Cuomo and Mayor DiBlasio, we in NYS and NYC are relying on you. The Port Authority controls the NYC metro airports. New Yorkers will understand and respond to crisis measures. Don't wait for the federal government to act; it is incompetent.
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The media is creating hysteria by reporting numbers of deaths without providing any context: e.g, age, underlying health conditions, comparisons to other diseases.
Can you please provide ample context?
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@Alix Hoquet
They do provide comparisons with other diseases in this very same article. More precisely, four to 20 times the mortality rate of common flu, with the data currently at hand.
If anything, I think that the press is understating a bit some worrying statistics. Like hospitalization rates (19% of COVID-19 patients in China developed severe or critical conditions, as compared to 1% for the flu); or the fact that the high mortality rate mark (indeed 2.9%, rather than the 2% more widely reported in the shape of the "20 times worse" figure) corresponds to Wuhan, where the healthcare system became saturated; while the 0.4% figure corresponds to areas with much, much lower number of cases and, thus, where the healthcare infrastructure could still handle it.
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@Alix Hoquet
Chinese data - reported in bona-fide, peer reviewed Western medical journals indicates that 14% of those infected develop 'severe disease' and of those, about 35% become critically ill.
Look at the Chinese Wuhan data in the NEJM. The elderly made up the majority of those wih severe disease - as did those with significant co-morbidity. But, by no means all. Contrary to US government straw clutching, this disease most certainly does kill young, health people.
The only silver lining is that very few children (about 2% of total cases) are catching it.
3
@Alix Hoquet - I posted links to our local news channels which give the info you are asking as in age, gender, etc, but the Times has not printed a single one of the posts. But, they printed any of my posts that do not have a competing news source. At least 4 different times I provided the links with everything you would want to know locally.
I noted in a photograph on CNN that health care workers in WA outbreak were wearing thin gowns like the ones at doctors office with masks while trying to contain outbreak and take one of the bodies to the morgue. No hazmat suits. Not a good sign.
3
There are up to 80,000 deaths annually from the flu. Why haven't we held every president and congress responsible?
1
I live in Seattle, pretty much right in the middle of the area where community spread is suspected. They have announced a one day school closure to discuss remote learning in case schools need to be closed. People seem to be still going about their business but we know that disruption to daily routine is coming fast.
There is a lot confusion and disinformation. The US Administration's performance on Thursday-Friday has been very unhelpful and a complete failure to perform the basic function of government. Also, will Trump ever admit he doesn't know what he is talking about and just shut up???
6
Compounding this crisis, we have no reliable leadership that we can trust. Why on Earth would I ever believe a US President who tells an endless stream of low stakes lies like scrawling on a NOAA hurricane map than just admit to a simple mistake?
His self-image trumps our health. Our well-being is absolutely none of his concern.
5
Maybe this is how Trump can reduce Medicare and Social Security by killing off the majority of the elderly. He had better realize he is also elderly.
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In the press conference on Sunday, Trump said "if you are infected, you are going through some process" and you will be fine. How ignorant can he be? The studies in other countries show that even if you are recovered from coronavirus, your lung will be damaged in various degrees. When asked about his own prevention, he said something like this: the virus is on the west coast, there is a big distance. His lack of common sense is astonishing and presents a false assurance to those who live in other parts of the country.
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Governments always try to downplay disasters so as to avoid unnecessary panic. FDR and Churchill were famous for it in WW!!.
2
"Twenty-three cases were announced on Saturday and Sunday in California, Florida, Illinois, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island and Washington."
Great. This is the first I've read or heard about this virus being detected in Illinois.
Thanks very much NYT for this intel. Another key reason why I gladly subscribe to this incredible news source!
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@Marge Keller
The first case in Illinois was weeks ago!
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@Julian
Even scarier - never knew about that case until I read it in the NYT. Thanks for the intel.
1
The medicine is worse than the disease in some sense.
Fear will negatively impact people more than the virus in my opinion.
I think we have to assume the virus will spread around the world, but hopefully can be slowed enough in time for a vaccine to be rolled out for next season.
To me, throwing a few billions at a mass vaccine initiative seems to make a lot of sense right now.
2
Who will be able to afford the vaccine?
2
Preface by saying that I am NOT a Trump supporter in ANY respect. However, keeping real about this virus and just carrying on with life with an awareness of hygiene and potential exposure is the smartest route (IMHO). I applaud his initial approach as I believe it has helped squelch potential mass hysteria. I also applaud the Times' updates and maps charting new cases. It helps keep it somewhat real. The virus is out there and amongst us all right now but it's not the apocalypse. I recently traveled to Prague, Dresden and Amsterdam and came home feeling a little beaten up, as I usually do after international travel. I probably came home with the bug and its already run its course through me. C'est la vie.
1
The numbers are being grossly underreported. I live in Germany and was recently notified that I had direct contact with a colleague who tested positive for corona. In Berlin, where I reside, I was told to get in touch with the local health ministry - which I did. I was instructed to call my general practitioner to get tested and if that didnt work to call the local hospital. I was told by my practitioner and subsequently by many other practitioners that they dont do coronavirus tests. I called the local hospital and they told me they stopped doing coronavirus tests and to contact the local health ministry. The ministry later reached out to me to tell me that I'm not allowed to work until I reach the 14 day period without symptoms. At every turn, I was denied a test and given conflicting information. Perhaps this is just the chaos of Berlin, but I do feel confident assuming that most cities' are underprepared to test and treat people. This virus will inevitably spread and the government is partially to blame.
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@Phuong ,
From the protocol you described in Berlin, it is clear that Germany is orders of magnitude more prepared than the US is. You may think it is insufficient, and it may well be. But the procedures you describe are essentially absent here in the U.S. Now, if we had competent national leaders, as does Germany, perhaps this would not be the case.
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@JS thats true, but it also took 4 hours before the health ministry was even able to pick up the phone call. And it took my husband talking to the health ministry and detailing the misinformation that they realized they were disseminating false information.
1
So what are our presidential candidates going to do? Four of them are over 65 (Sanders, Biden, Bloomberg, Warren); the other two, Steyer and Klobuchar, are not far behind. Aren’t they out in public every day shaking hands?
5
Perhaps a reason for the rather laid back demeanor of Mr. Pence regarding the threat posed by COVID-19 is that he "knows" the rapture will soon sweep him and other true believers up into heaven -- so why worry?
After all, according to Pence, God has a plan for you so there's no need to concern yourself with viruses or pretty much anything else -- if you believe.
Scientific analysis and science based planning are clearly in short supply in this nation due in no small part to years of Republican gutting of government agencies and firing of knowledgeable scientists and experts on public health issues and preparedness.
Due to decades of such malfeasance we are woefully vulnerable to any national disaster from pandemics to earthquakes to hurricanes to flooding.
The only way to change this mass incompetence is to vote out Republicans from every office they hold. If we don't do this in 2020 then prepare yourself for ever more complacency, incompetence, and corruption in government and ever more dysfunction in society at large.
Vote blue no matter who.
12
The media does great harm by continuing to repeat the false equivalencies about how flu kills people. Car accidents do, too. So do shark attacks and falling in the bathtub.
Let’s work with facts; let’s focus on the science and reality unfolding before ours eyes. Please stop repeating the Trump “talking points”, which will only give people a false sense of security. People don’t need to panic but they do need to take precautions, and they can’t do that by praying or minimizing this pandemic.
5
Or by continuing to oppose Medicare for all
1
In order to determine the extent of the outbreak, the test for cover-19 should be free if the test kit production is sufficient. The Public Health facility will be designated as the local testing site so as to minimize public exposure. The patient will be informed to self quarantine awaiting the test result.
This may free up the hospital and medical staff to take care of the sick patients that require hospitalization. The published report from Wuhan epi-center showed that 80% of the covid-19 infections have mild symptoms that do not require daily medical attention, 10-15% are moderate to severe and 3-5% are critically ill.
The aggressive approach in South Korea for extensive surveillance testing, can be a model to follow. The positive tests jump from double digits to over 4,000 in less than 2 weeks. The mortality rate is around 0.5%. Time is essence.
5