Briefly I considered that God has sent this mayhem to help Democrats win the election in the fall. Then I stopped to consider the possibility of a fall resurgence of coronavirus, with quarantines, shutdowns of schools, businesses, stores, VOTING PLACES. . . A great opportunity for trump to postpone the election. What a nightmare.
15
How old is the woman? Was her health already compromised?
4
I hear George Soros is spending dark money to recruit Trump haters to get the corona virus on purpose and then attend Trump rallies to try to get Trump and trump lovers sick. The theory is trump is an obese dotard that could be more likely than not to die of the disease that has a 2% mortality rate.
I live in Oregon and so this could be a thing. I wonder if this is true.
4
Researchers at the Galilee Research Institute , also known as MIGAL are working on a vaccine that may be 2 or 3 weeks away from the beginning of testing or trials. Testing/trials would take 90 days. That is pretty quick. Of course, that type of news is not reported on here in the states. Must visit Israel news sites.
1
I’m really sick of the polarization of this pandemic by Trump and his media team. He only cares about himself and the impact on him and does not care about anyone or anything else!
For once - for once! - show a sense of dignity and empathy, or at least pretend to. Acknowledge the potential severity of the circumstances and just keep your mouth and Twitter account shut on this topic.
12
Has anyone thought about the impacts of this virus on the primaries?
4
More bad news in terms of US readiness: : a record number of rural hospitals closed in 2019.
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/rural-hospital-closures-hit-record-high-in-2019-here-s-why.html
3
For what it's worth, I think adding Deborah Birx to help lead the team is a great choice.
But it makes me sad that Trump, in 4 years, also makes me add:
Gee ... a female appointed under Obama who has a specialty in what has been called among Evangelicals a disease among and to punish gays ...
he must be desperate.
2
Wonderful, California just recently announced it’s on the verge of another drought and now the entire state’s population are told to become neurotic hand washers.
1
I just read that Israel is weeks away from an immunization for this virus, already developing one for a poultry disease. Northern California, including the Bay Area, have the 2 unknown cases, and should be the first to have access to an immunization in this country. Southern California should be last, for refusing Corona Virus evacuees, who did not even have the virus. Of course, first it should go to China, Japan, Korea and Italy, who are carrying the larger virus load.
"The White House accused the media of sowing fear to hurt President Trump." It's all about me, me, me.
7
Why is the White House trying to make this about Trump?
3
To Trump - everything is about him.
5
Trumpists, no one is blaming your "president" for this virus. What we are blaming him for is his negligent, reckless "response" to the crisis. His lies have gotten him through three years of a disastrous presidency. But he cannot lie his way out of his incompetence on this one. Mike Pence as "Virus Czar"? Truly Kafkaesque.
Folks, the world markets aren't reacting as they have this week because they are run by ignorant, foolhardy people. They know this health crisis is real, and the only unknown remaining is the scope of it throughout the world.
In 2016, more than half us (and the majority of voters by some three million) saw Trump for the fraud that he is. Why the rest of you didn't is beyond me.
Does his racism appeal to you that much, that you are willing to believe the basest of lies he makes? Lies that number into the tens of thousands in the past three years?
Well, Trumpists, more of your "president's" lies are all you are going to get, should you or your family members come down with this illness. I hope this makes you feel better.
Thoughts and prayers.
16
Disappointing but not surprising that Republicans suggest the virus is being used to “take down President”. Wait until Republicans start being infected...what will they claim then!!!
5
A second Coronavirus case about 90 miles from the first community victim in California. I predict that within the next week, there will be many more cases in California! Meanwhile, the “leadership” of this once-great nation is attending a “rally” in South Carolina tonight and Pence is “fundraising” in Florida! MAGA, Make America Good Again, this coming November!!!
8
Too many mysterious cases undiagnosed for too long. Strap in, Trump’s magical thinking ain’t gonna save us now.
5
1. there are people who lie about their activities and whereabouts
2. repeat 1
3
"A summit of the U.S.-Association of Southeast Asian Nations Business Council that was set for March 14 in Las Vegas has been postponed by the Trump administration over the coronavirus outbreak."
Pres Trump: "It's a hoax."
Ummm, really?
2
Please, a little research so there’s some semblance of research...
”Coronaviruses (CoV) are a large family of viruses that cause illness ranging from the common cold to more severe diseases such as Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS-CoV) and Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS-CoV). A novel coronavirus (nCoV) is a new strain that has not been previously identified in humans.“ https://www.who.int/health-topics/coronavirus
Trumpists, no one is blaming your "president" for this virus. What we are blaming him for is his negligent, reckless "response" to the crisis. His lies have gotten him through three years of a disastrous presidency. But he cannot lie his way out of his incompetence on this one. Mike Pence as "Virus Czar"? Truly Kafkaesque.
Folks, the world markets aren't reacting as they have this week because they are run by ignorant, foolhardy people. They know this health crisis is real, and the only unknown remaining is the scope of it throughout the world.
More than half us saw (and the majority of voters by some three million) saw Trump for the fraud that he is. Why the rest of you didn't is beyond me. Does his racism appeal to you that much, that you are willing to believe the basest of lies he makes? Lies that number into the tens of thousands in the past three years?
Well, Trumpists, your "president's" lies are all you are going to get, should you or your family members come down with this illness. I hope this makes you feel better. The rest of us though, voted for a sane, intelligent, thoughtful candidate who would have known how to handle this crisis. But now, your reckless votes will cause us to suffer as well. And you wonder why we aren't "reaching out" to you? As this past week has proven, you voted for the most ignorant, mentally unfit candidate you could possibly have found, and we're all paying the price for your folly.
Thoughts and prayers.
5
Speaking of malevolent viruses. Mick Mulvaney ...blamed the media for exaggerating the seriousness of coronavirus because “they think this will bring down the president, that’s what this is all about.”
3
Here is the website for the World Health Organization (WHO) with a specific coronavirus section. I will be checking the WHO website over anything coming out of the incompetent Trump/Pence administration. This is the best and most comprehensive website out there:
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019
4
Hi Middle America! Enjoy your minority rule while we coastal elites suffer the consequences of Trump’s ineptitude.
5
This is a 'national security' issue; shift funds from DEFENSE to deal with Covid19.
5
Yuck! The New York Times has nothing else to write about, so...we get late, breaking, 24-hour, nonstop, constant, LIVE updates about coronavirus. Spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt sell papers. Another reason to watch ESPN!!!!
Just hope we get thru this alive
3
If Trump orders the manufacture of supplies, that’s socialism, that he has been warning us about! Then we might end up like Venezuela! At least he cut socialist programs like the CDC.
Maybe Mike Pence can pray away the Coronavirus.
4
Meanwhile, while addressing his adoring accolytes in the SC Nuremburg-style rally, Trump describes the pandemic as a "hoax". While allowing only 500 tests to be performed nationwide, while Italy and Korea have both run over 10,000 each. It's everywhere now folks, the genie's out.
5
I want to know why China felt compelled to turn Wuhan into a ghost town.
1
Apparently Australia has 20m face masks stockpiled and USA 30m. Makes you wonder
Trumpists, no one is blaming your "president" for this virus. What we are blaming him for is his negligent, reckless "response" to the crisis. His lies have gotten him through three years of a disastrous presidency. But he cannot lie his way out of his incompetence on this one. Mike Pence as "Virus Czar"? Truly Kafkaesque. And now with this second case of unknown origin, we are woefully unprepared, thanks to your "dear leader".
Folks, the world markets aren't reacting as they have this week because they are run by ignorant, foolhardy people. Skilled, intelligent people throughout the world (but sadly not anyone associated with Trump) know this health crisis is real, and the only unknown remaining is the scope of it throughout the world.
In 2016 more than half us (and the majority of voters by some three million) saw Trump for the fraud that he is. Why the rest of you didn't is beyond me. Does his racism appeal to you that much, that you are willing to believe the basest of lies he makes? Lies that number into the tens of thousands in the past three years?
Well, Trumpists, more of your "president's" lies are all you are going to get, should you or your family members come down with this illness. And because of your willful bigotry and ignorance, we are all going to suffer.
1
It's ok everyone, Mike Pence will save us!
/s
1
"A reality check for every govt on the planet" And for US high profit health care, leaving out multi millions.
The C Virus threat is a golden opportunity for 2020 Dem candidates to make this the big issue in the debates and town halls.
Push for national paid sick leave, and universal health care, necessary for protection against epidemics. Our candidates and the media need to start discussing the various models of financing HC that have long operated in dozens of democracies.
Wikipedia—“Paid sick leave is a statutory requirement in most European, many Latin American, a few African and Asian countries…”
W. Post-- “Employers who don’t offer paid sick leave are making flu (or any virus) season worse --- and hurting their own bottom line.”
“ Per Bureau of Labor Statistics, 28 percent of U.S. civilian workers — about 45 million — have no access to paid sick leave.”
So millions of Americans-- “have a choice: go to work sick, or stay home and forgo pay.”
Millions of Americans have no or little savings, and need what income they earn for basic needs like rent and groceries.
NYT– How to Prepare for the Virus -----
… “many people who work in minimum-wage jobs do not get sick days….. they often must work when ill, despite public contact. ”
Public contact---that means all of us.
Our political culture's distorted opposition to national government mandates, leaves all of us less protected than people in other modern nations. Where is that big story in the media?
3
Media is creating a lot of panic but not many people know what to do. So here I share my personal response to commonly asked question by my family and friends regarding ongoing Coronavirus #COVID-19 outbreak.
https://medium.com/@Riz98/coronavirus-covid-19-faqs-aea36cceb0d3?sk=4e83ca2224f19ec6ddb7a25c054102d6&fbclid=IwAR1QxrGM3Lil10Mj8-Apd5oMwUPpn1O60_1Rc9nxh8dcZP2aCdZDxjEf3JI
https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Two-more-Diamond-Princess-evacuees-at-Lackland-15092987.php
Two more in San Antonio test positive.
This might be a stupid question but is it possible that the virus have been around in the US for a long time but just now getting the attention?
1
Do you really have to post a picture of man walking in the direction of a mortuary? Aren't we scared enough? Photo in Africa
https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/fayko1/my_covid19_story_brooklyn/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
This is why CDC cannot find origin!! They had been blatantly rejecting testing people unless they are in critical conditions!!!
The clarity of Doctor Fauchi
Seems to make our president grouchy
So he drafted Mike Pence
To muster a defense
Of a plan that is just plain lousy
1
Mr. Trump just called the global Coronavirus crisis the “latest hoax” by the Democrats.
Let that sink in.
5
We have no leaders.
18
First case of community acquired Covid19 just reported in Oregon.
7
Received an e-mail from my hospital administration this morning that due to the worldwide shortage, regular shipments of N95 respirators have been suspended by suppliers. The administration has limited their use in the hospital to try to conserve the current stock. If we get coronavirus we will not have adequate supplies and health care workers will start dying, as in other countries. Please invoke the 1950 law now to ramp up N95 mask production and other personal protective equipment recommended by CDC.
44
I went to get a haircut today. In the shop another customer was hacking up a lung, sniffing and coughing. I guess they just couldn’t skip their hair appointment, after all, that would be inconvenient for them. What did they care if they infected everyone in the shop? This kind of selfish behavior will cause the impending spread of the Coronavirus to be worse and more deadly than it needs to be. If you’re sick, stay home!
63
Health care professionals have dropped "Covid-19" and are again calling the virus the "novel coronavirus"...what is up with that?
2
Chinese laboratory that first shared coronavirus genome with world ordered to close for ‘rectification’, hindering its Covid-19 research
No reason was given for the closure of Shanghai facility, which released information about the virus ahead of authorities
One source at the laboratory said the closure has hampered scientists’ research when they should be ‘racing against the clock’
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3052966/chinese-laboratory-first-shared-coronavirus-genome-world-ordered
6
There are two confirmed cases in California and one in Oregon...there are really five, two people had to infect the patients in both states...you can’t have one without the other.
17
China did a better job than they get credit for. One data point—everybody started wearing masks. I just searched for masks on Amazon and Walmart. Speculators have hoarded the supplies and are selling them for hundreds per box! Will we have the courage to charge price gougers like China did??
33
I don’t believe that NYC has ZERO cases......
Think about these subway cars with garbage, bugs, and people standing face to face.
25
Making vaccine is not like building an airplane. The ‘process’ is ‘the product’. Sanofi and Pfizer and Merck cannot be commanded to make vaccine. They can...over time... but it’s not about buying parts and bolting them together. Unlike drugs, vaccines are produced by other living organisms like Ecoli or canary pox virus. This is not something the country can command like a vending machine, put money in and get the vaccine out
15
Watching the local Oregon news, first case of Coronavirus is being reported.
8
Someone on cable news made a good suggestion. They recommended the CDC/WH taskforce hold a daily 30 min briefing/update. Same time/same stations so the public can schedule their "watch". I also think the media needs to stop sensationalizing this. You're scaring people and that fright is not helping them in any way! Simply give the facts and any further instructions and information from the CDC. The media, including the NYT, should also dedicate investigative reporters to followup on reports that medical and gov't people are not observing correct guidelines. YOU need to get involved, not just stay on the sidelines criticizing!
17
Trump’s history as a prevaricator is catching up to him. So, of course, no one with good judgment trusts him to handle the Coronavirus outbreak.
23
Face it, it's possible you've already had this "flu". It's simply around. I have kids and when I go to the pediatrician and ask about Covid they say 🤷🏽♂️. They don't really know how it manifests or what it is. The non- info about this virus is staggering considering 80k peeps have been considered "positive". Stop the madness. It's the landscape now.
13
Pelosi needs to do something. Trump can't handle this.
10
Viruses don’t discriminate. It doesn’t care if you’re Republican or Democrat or an Independent, if you are short or tall, rich or poor, the color of skin and where you live or work.
22
These people can't get one thing right.
10
There are 2 cases in Oregon.
6
Why isn't anyone exploring the accusations of the author Dean Koontz that wrote a book called "The Eyes of Darkness" in 1981 that alleges China created this virus in the RDNA labs at Wuhan as a biological weapon that has now somehow escaped, and predicted this would happen in 2020? Do not the secrecy and down-playing of the initial outbreaks in China support this theory?
8
I wonder how many Trump followers will keep showing up to his rallies once the pandemic begins?
27
Actually California just identified a third.
7
Anyone wonder whether all those folks who vape and may have lung damage may be another “at risk”population?
14
Lets see if I get what is going on. We mobilized the entire country right after 9/11 and did not play too much of the political game in its aftermath. About 3000 died.
The best estimates I have read in major publications is that the USA is likely to see 30% of us get this virus.
The death rate is hovering around 2%
America has about 300,000,000 people.
Thirty percent of the 300M is about 100M people.
Two percent of that is 2,000,000 Americans.
Of course this will come out fine for America. Of course there is nothing to worry about.
Just go about your as business as usual and enjoy the Russian Roulette in the Trump Casino.
37
The Apprentice: COVID-19 Edition
'There's a very good chance you're not going to die.'
- Trump
21
Who or what will be blamed by the administration and conspiracy-minded media when they, their families, or people they know contract the virus?
Or will they quarantine in secret so the truth doesn't come out that they were misinformed?
12
unexplained. sounds like biochemical warfare .. this is how bad B movies begin.
7
I am old enough to likely die when I get this version of the flu.
Stope with the Scare Headlines, the flu is hear in America,
it is spread out enough that we cannot contain it.
What you might want to do is investigate why its containment
was so poorly handled.
10
Be afraid .Be very afraid .At the UC Davis Medical Center on Feb 19 an intubated patient needing critical care with clear Covid-19 symptoms was admitted from another hospital. The CDC denied staff's requests for testing ! Only 'contact droplets' procedures were put in place ! 4 days later; far too late, the CDC agreed to test the patient and 'air borne precautions' were put in place, again, far too late ! The patient has tested positive ! This is how you create an epidemic & contribute to a pandemic. Thank you America !
On Feb 27 The Gov of California confirms 31 Coronavirus cases ,the same day Public Health Dept confirms only 10 while the Center for Disease Control & Prevention confirms the first public person to person transmission in Solano County; a dangerous tipping point in the transmission of this highly contagious disease .Not such confusing data ,but down right dangerous & incompetent.
When you know that South Korea's cases jumped by 40% from Feb 26 to Feb 27 (1,261 to 1,766) despite aggressive containment measures ,America needs to be alert, alarmed & active in its measures ! The horrific fatality rate in Iran indicates the virus may have mutated to a deadlier form . Testing already indicates the virus remains active for weeks after recovery ,which is also why America needs to take protective & pro-active measures to inhibit the spread of a virus that has such dramatic social & economic impacts due to the unusual length of the illness even in mild cases.
9
Judging by our Dumpster fire of a state health agency in Oregon, this will go swimmingly.
7
I'd like to thank the press, including the NY Times, for keeping a spotlight on Corona Virus. Without the light of free press, HHS would still be denying the start of community-wide-spread of the disease and CDC still would not have figured out a way to provide tests outside their labs in Atlanta. Keep up the good work! (Of course the WH is still in denial, but hey can't win them all.)
39
And this is why we need health care coverage of some sort for undocumented people. Viruses do not care about your immigration or citizenship status. Trump's aggressive policies have also driven away people from seeking care who are sick.
26
If they overstayed their visas they cannot travel because they can’t come back in!
Its already here. Once we start testing the numbers will grow . So far we have chosen to turn a blind eye and not count them as per Trump control.
65
And today, when time is of the essence, what we are hearing from Pence - the newly appointed leader on this issue is...crickets.
55
Why would this meeting on US soil be postponed? Certainly CoVid-19 might be an important and fruitful topic of conversation.
One wonders if the postponement of meeting with the ASEAN leaders has anything to do with the purported germ phobia of our current President?
15
As the U.S. cases reach into the thousands and tens of thousands, will Trump continue to say that the media and democrats exaggerate? As hundreds of Americans die, will Limbaugh continue to say that COVID-19 is the common cold? Or will they quickly forget their claims? When do facts matter to these people? Truly they do not really care about Americans. It is already too late for a competent government response.
65
Trump is criticizing the media for exaggerating the threat. Meanwhile the US is completely unprepared. We don’t have test kits. We don’t have ventilators. We don’t have a President. He’s at a rally.
100
I wonder what the thinking was behind quarantining evacuees from China and the cruise ship in California, the state with the highest population and a high population density. Was there any discussion of how quickly the virus could spread in California versus, say, Wyoming?
31
A nightmare within a nightmare: Having the current administration implement and abuse the Defense Production Act.
29
So now we have Coronavirus patient number two in Northern California raising the possibility the virus is spreading locally. In the face of that we have trump and company condemning the media for sowing fear to hurt President Trump.
Trump is at a rally, Pence is out of town, the stock market is in free fall, the population's concerned about safety procedures, and the virus is infecting U.S. citizens one person at a time; and he's accusing the media of sowing fear.
Will this man EVER understand the role of the presidency and the responsibility that the office demands? This virus health hazard is not about one insecure man; it's about a global effort to find a medical solution. Do your job or step aside.
163
While Trump tries to suppress reporting, it is true media does try to make a pandemic before there is a pandemic and the disease is not the equivalent of ebola. This is sad, and having the virus to contend with is bad enough. Thank God for our scientists and public health professionals.
12
The government needs to step immediately and take control of the private health care system so everyone has access.
21
What is the president’s plan to deal with the epidemic?
Tweeting will not make it go away.
43
How do we pay for universal healthcare? Make it part of our national defense. More effective than another unneeded, unwanted, and budget-bloating weapons system.
60
So now this virus is in my state, thanks in large part, it seems from the whistleblower, to completely lax standards and mismanagement by the feds. If there is an outbreak in California, if one person dies who should not have, then our government has literally killed its own citizens through negligence, and perhaps, given trump’s hostility to California, through outright belligerence.
76
I have to say that the only really bad news that is supposed fact but is suspect is that it kills about 2-4% of people who contract it. As far as I know, that is the numbers that China is reporting. We have no other source that says it is that severe. Maybe Iran. How much do we really trust these numbers, and how likely are they to lie, or be incapable of knowing the truth because they are authoritarian punch down countries who demand that their edicts are fact when the facts disagree. I somewhat doubt they are that coordinated as to be capable of pulling off such a hoax, but it's possible. It is however very likely that they don't know the actual number of cases and so don't know the death rate, but report as if their numbers are exact, because that is what authoritarians do. Much like you see out of Trump these days.
I'll bet the death rate is way below 2%. I base that on numbers reported for health care workers where 1700 got ill and 6 died. That would mean a death rate for presumably otherwise healthy people of 0.35%, which is way below 2% but still about 3 times higher than a normal flu. So still serious but not the massive killer that people feared.
It's highly unlikely that it will be contained. If you have two unknown sourced cases that are tested and confirmed, you have many others that have not yet surfaced or who will never go to a doctor for a cold.
15
see what is wrong with voters in America. If we had properly elected Hillary Clinton none of this would have ever happened. We need to elect Sanders to keep stuff like this from happening.
18
It’s important to be vigilant with regard to personal hygiene. Use common sense. Nearly 21 years ago, this newspaper published an article, “Catching Flu from Money” (May 1, 2009). At that time, the flu virus, when combined with nasal mucus, was capable of surviving for over two weeks on bank notes. I’m certain the same will be found with the Coronavirus. So wash frequently, properly, avoid touching your eyes or nose with your hands, and sneeze/cough into a tissue or onto your clothed arms. Use common sense, and avoid panic. Yes, it’s deadly, it will harm the global economy. Become informed and we will all be better prepared to get through this.
21
Here in New York and in particular in New York City there are zero test kits for the corona virus. This out break started two months ago. Once this nightmare is over we need to elect a government that does not tell us we don't need a government. Vote Blue.
83
I don't see how we can contain a virus if we don't know where it is. Is this data true? Valid? Verifiable?
“While South Korea has run more than 35,000 coronavirus tests, the United States has tested only 426 people, not including people who returned on evacuation flights,” the Washington Post reported earlier in the week. As of Friday, only 445 people have been tested for Covid-19 in the US.
Fact or fiction?
27
Medicare for All looking rather necessary right now. Good that this happened(?)— we need a wake up call. With climate change intensifying, we’ll see more and more viruses.
34
I would like someone from Trump's administration to get through to him the difference between the coronavirus and the common flu/cold is the incubation period. Flu and colds have short incubation periods, a few days. Coronaviruses have longer incubation periods. The longer the incubation period, the harder it is to control the spread. Schools all over the world close down for a week because of the flu. That will not work for the coronavirus.
55
My husband flew back from Europe yesterday. He had a cold. Nobody asked him anything. He stayed home today and called a doctor to be cleared to go back to work per his company regulations. How many people have traveled back from Italy or France? Experts said the virus had been in Italy for weeks before it was noticed. I really think at-risk people should be protected, particularly the very many people who are on immuno suppressants and have no choice but to go to work. Online work should be encouraged whenever possible. At this point, anything that can slow both the propagation and the number of severe cases should be considered.
90
Why are we hearing about the new cases from The WaPo rather than the CDC? As a Bay Area resident having trust that we are getting real time updates is crucial
92
@Kevin K
CDC can’t talk to the public period. Pence mastermind was at a political fund raiser in Florida. It was a busy day of doing nothing
Pence has his priorities in order. Test kits don’t work so he finds another fund raiser to attend
51
@Kevin K Why? Because of who is in the White House. Because this administration CUT funding for CDC and ELIMINATED the position that was created in the previous administration to manage pandemics.
40
@Kevin K:
Because Trump/Pence have muzzled the CDC.
20
It's an additional tragedy at the moment the coronavirus appears to be spreading on the West Coast and the public needs sound advice that they're just getting silly, fallacious accusations from President Trump, his Acting Chief of Staff, and media conservatives. At a time when we need to hear from respected physicians like Dr. Anthony Fauci, Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases at the National Institutes of Health, and Dr. Nancy Messonnier, the Director of the Center for the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases at the Centers for Disease Control, they are being muzzled by President Trump and Vice President Trump, and even being attacked by others like Rush Limbaugh who have no health expertise. The attempt to politicize what is a national and international disaster only increases the panic among the public and the uncertainty in the financial markets. It's time for them to stop the blame and the political spin and to try telling the truth. It's time to let the experts speak while they stay quiet and to remember that "sunlight is the best disinfectant."
118
Is it possible that Trump doesn't want anyone to be tested because the numbers would be higher and reflect poorly on him?
102
@Lake ,
I absolutely believe this is happening. That way he can claim it's a "hoax", while people start dying from "unknown causes"... He cares nothing for any of our citizens, even his own voters.
24
@Lake 100 percent
7
Accurate information about the virus is critical. I appreciate the Times' thorough coverage of its spread. Vigilant hygiene and sensible public interactions will go a long way toward mitigating the outbreak.
On another note, rather than assuming the Democrats are trying to ruin his presidency, might Trump might consider that the global threat is an opportunity for him to think outside his own fragile ego and show some leadership?
72
@JR80304 "On another note, rather than assuming the Democrats are trying to ruin his presidency, might Trump might consider that the global threat is an opportunity for him to think outside his own fragile ego and show some leadership?"
Well....that would be nice and actually save thousands or perhaps millions of lives, BUT....sadly, the chance nil.
13
In China, everyone now has to scan ID code before riding bus or subway. Once an infected person is discovered, government can immediately trace everyone who has been in close contact with the patient. America doesn't have such technology.
27
Wow tracking every person’s movement could be useful in this case. China probably developed that technology for another reason, however.
45
Are you seriously advocated that the government in America be able to trace everyone who gets on a bus like they do in China?
This zoonotic bat virus is an international emergency due to its fatality rate and virulent contagiousness. President Trump can do useful work penning an executive order cutting vaccine testing time to the bare minimum. It could be tested on prisoners for remission of sentence. There will be no shortage of volunteers.
3
Where are all the rich good guys on the side of humanity - Elon Musk, Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos?
If they group together, a vaccine could be coalesced with their intervention very rapidly.
Elon Musk is the man to lead this effort.
22
Making money off the short term market snd hoarding happening rn
2
Concerns over this virus are greatly exaggerated. The worst case scenario we are faced with is universal global spread with 1 to 2% fatality. That means only a few dozen millions dead.
Even if half of the total global population were to die, which is certainly not going to happen, we would still have over 3.5 billion survivors. 3.5 billion is much higher than what human population has been for the entirety of human history, except for the last few decades.
We humans are the worst plague to have ever happened on planet earth. No virus can kill enough of us to make a significant impact on the damage we are doing to this planet every day. Maybe if something was to kill 99% of us it might help. I do not have high hopes of that happening.
33
@A Cynic Man. I thought I was a cynic. Cold hearted but can't disagree with the logic or the cold hearted.
3
You forget that the black plague killed so many people it created the middle class. This is not tjst bad but mutations and over stressed health care systems that are unprepared means it will be years and the virus will haventoke for mutation
Am I misunderstanding how viruses work or does it seem pretty plausible that this is basically spreading through contact with cash now & anything else that’s passed around habitually? It would explain the random nodes where no one had known personal contact with the current assumed vectors. This is literally on my doorstep now. My spouse is working the Santa Clara Aquamaids bingo hall tonight and I’m, frankly, concerned. Wash your hands, cover your coughs, keep your hands away from mucous membranes (eyes, mouth, nose), and regularly check cdc.gov. It’s here, folks, and Trump will not help you.
48
@Paul Absolutely. Cash would be a big vector. Thankfully most people use cards now BUT we have to punch numbers into card terminals, which also will spread the virus by touch.
15
I have cancer and I am over 65. These two groups suffered higher mortality when the Chinese COVID-19 was peaking. And here in the US with completely incompetent leadership from Azar on up, there is talk about producing masks (which were unobtainable in the pharmacies today) even though it is reported they are ineffective. Never is a more knowledgeable and centralized approach needed to disperse accurate information and gear up the infrastructure needed. Are we headed for our Puerto Rico moment where we have rolls of paper towels thrown at us and Donald Trump tells us nothing is wrong?
56
@Elissa Yes, I am in a similar boat to you. I was joking with other patients at the infusion clinic today that if we just cough enough maybe everyone will stay far away from us and reduce our chance of infection. But I know this is no joking matter...even black humor doesn't help.
5
Why the surprise when we already know people were sent without protective gear to help quarantined people and then allowed to go home? I'm not surprised, am sure there are dozens more.
113
Trumps doing a rally tonight and Pence went to a fundraiser today. They are all over this -No Worries! :(
168
@RBO I hear George Soros is spending dark money to recruit Trump haters to get the corona virus on purpose and then attend Trump rallies to try to get Trump and trump lovers sick. The theory is trump is an obese and a good candidate to be among the 2% fatality rate.
I wonder if this is true? Who knows?
@RBO Maybe one or both of them will capture the virus.
The only way to motivate Trump is to run Covid-19 as a candidate for POTUS. For good measure, give Covid 19 a few billions of cash (Powell can print them in a second) to buy Puts against S&P 500.
1
I am fearful of what is going to happen in cities that have large homeless populations, like Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, when the virus takes hold in that vulnerable population. Limited access to clean water for hand washing and general sanitation, limited (or no) access to healthcare, already stressed from living in deplorable conditions and in many cases unable to afford to purchase medications. If there ever was a reason for universal access to healthcare and affordable housing in the US....this is it.
142
@megan
It is a reason to make homeless encampments illegal. Taxpayer funds maintain homeless shelters which go unused because these people don't like to follow the rules of shelters. Encampments are the result of not enforcing vagrancy laws and the elected officials of these cities are responsible.
26
@megan Not to mention entire continents with minimal intensive respiratory care support (i.e, Africa). And a case was found in the Congo.
13
@megan This is a great concern of mine. Those camps in California are already plague-friendly, and if this virus takes hold in those camps it will be a terrible situation. Those camps could spread the virus and create a catastrophic situation.
11
Let's say, if I return from a trip from the highly affected area, I decide to self quarentine myself two weeks. If I got the virus, there is a really good chance that I can pass it to my family by just living with them. My family would still go to work and school as normal without knowing they are infected. In order to protect the community, how effective the self quarantine would be unless the whole community locks down?
85
The uninformed are busy with the hysterical comments--so some facts:
CDC estimates that influenza was associated with more than 35.5 million illnesses, more than 16.5 million medical visits, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths during the 2018–2019 influenza season.
12
That may be so Jonathan, but from what has so far been observed Coronavirus is more infectious than flu, there is no ‘flu shot’ for it to prevent people becoming infected, and the mortality rate appears to be at least 10 or 20 times greater than flu, if not higher.
If you do the math that means deaths in the hundreds of thousands, more likely millions, is a possibility. Will America’s healthcare system deal with this? Let’s hope it doesn’t get there, but it’s going to take more than VP Pence prayer sessions to get through this if the infection really gets out - which I believe it already has, and you won’t be able to stop it.
If I was an American I would be looking to your leadership to deal with this in a coordinated way, relying on the experts to guide them. So far I haven’t seen much of that.
Viruses don’t believe in miracles.
Wishing good luck to us all.
90
@Jonathan 15-20% of cases end up with ARDS (i.e, requiring a mechanical vent). I'd take a chance with the flu (maybe), but not with this.
38
@Jonathan This meme is truly endless. What is the point of it? To reassure us that Americans are very healthy and so covid 19 is nothing to worry about. I agree that we should try not to react with fear and do are best to deal with the problem at hand rationally and optimistically. But you have to recognize the problem first. P.S. I actually think over reacting can be good sometimes, like over studying and then finding out the test wasn't so bad. Taking precautions as long as they aren't harming people (and I don't mean Wallstreet) can be good.
24
I love how this had to become political. Everyone wants to point a finger to push their own personal agenda. I think instead of sides to be on people should focus on actions. Are the necessary precautions being taken? Do you even know what precautions should be taken? Have you even checked if said precautions have been made? If people focus on our differences, point fingers and make this about politics both sides will be less willing to cooperate and more people will get sick. Listen to yourselves, trump this trump that, the primitives, I dont like sub-saharan, america is a third world country, Im going to lose money, we need a democrat to be on tv everyday telling us its going to be ok, etc,etc. Do you think any of that rhetoric is going to protect the American people? The cdc is who should be handling this with the presidents support so unless that is not the case why be at eachothers throats. On a side note how often do you get cooperation from someone youre punching in the face? Americans are losing common sense to sensationalist drama then charge forward to the beat of a rhetoric drum losing all credibility they once had because instead of using logic they let there emotions guide their actions in a left vs right fight where everybody loses. If you want something ask yourself how can I get this in the most constructive way that will be supported by all without hurting anyone, if you do no wrong who can stand against you? Or just keep calling eachother names.
27
Most of the professional career infectious disease specialists were already let go by the Trump administration during 2017-2018, because they were deemed to be unnecessary, and the CDC is no longer allowed to say anything without asking Pence if it would be ok. Pence is not a medical professional, and Trump is not a medical professional. So yes, the CDC should be handling this, but the majority of those qualified medical professionals who could have been working on this were laid off.
29
@Shaun
"The cdc is who should be handling this with the presidents support."
I agree but the adverse is what happened.
Also The President attributed the market crash to a Dem. debate, Nancy Pelosi, and The Impeachment. I ask you just who is it that is making this political?
12
@Shaun - Why shouldn't this become political? It's the most natural thing in the world for it to become political.... That hardly makes it a bad thing. This virus above all *should* be political. I'm glad it is.
3
So then let the American media follow the administration and downplay the virus like they did in China. Is that what Trump wants?
35
@Oliver Yes. Mostly because we have such ignorance in our nation. 11 cases now confirmed in San Antonio. Trump and the Republicans are holding on to the base. But the rest of the nation knows better.
2
"Mick Mulvaney, the acting White House chief of staff, on Friday blamed the media for exaggerating the seriousness of coronavirus because “they think this will bring down the president, that’s what this is all about.”
I wish the Trump administration would just get over themselves! The coronavirus is not limited by political affiliations. This is a global pandemic! I am more concerned that the CDC give all medical staff clear guidelines on how to identify, control and treat this disease!
Rather then letting political paranoia run rampant, why isn't there more collaboration between countries with actual experience treating patients presenting with this disease!
The political accusations and blaming is absolutely ludicrous! Peoples lives are at risk!
65
Has anyone considered quarantining California?
11
It's very likely too late.
The president would never do anything to help California, be real.
California should’ve quarantined prior to the Federal HHS Dept flying the coronavirus into Travis Airforce Base, then negligently allowing the disease to spread to the surrounding community.
When reporting about the US, please focus on the # of deaths and # of actual verified cases of corona, from direct contact with China vs. no direct contact. I have to also question whether the second supposedly no-contact case that was diagnosed in San Jose today really was in fact that. There is a lot of travel to and from San Jose to China due to its proximity to Silicon Valley. What if someone this person interacted with did not answer truthfully at Customs or is lax at self-quarantine? These are really important questions that need to be asked in terms of determining transmission.
19
@Patricia L.
I, too, suspect that many people have not been truthful in disclosing their symptoms/ contacts/travel.
That area has a high Asian population with frequent travel back and forth between highly infected countries; and there is no magic.
So, these new California Coronavirus cases did not just "present out of thin air" or nowhere.
16
@Oceanviewer
Also, how many of the undocumented persons in that area, including people who overstayed student or work visas, are likely to be truthful about their symptoms/contacts/travel?
4
I think you are mis-understanding ‘no contact’. Obviously they came into contact with someone infected with the virus, but the point is they were completely unaware that they had. This means the virus is ‘in the open’ and officials have no idea who has been exposed and who is contagious!
9
With respect to these new patients of COVID-19 who present with no known risk factors? In a comment yesterday I gently surmised a theory or two, only to have my head figuratively separated from my body and mounted on the official 'New York Times Commenters Stick'. One even went so far as to question my sanity. Ouch!
Let me try again. Is it possible that these outlier cases could be originating from a new, or 'novel', form of the virus virus now presenting here in the United States (and also Germany, at latest count)? Perhaps infected poultry has made its way to our shores? That would one plausible explanation, given that all cases heretofore could be traced back to Wuhan, but with these outliers, that human link in the chain is notably absent---or at least, certainly not obvious.
I will not even dare suggest again the possibility of human malfeasance, as was my regret yesterday. As much as it might be plausible, given human nature and history both, I find my head useful. I'd like to keep it.
3
@David Bartlett the PCR assay used for the "test" is highly specific. So to answer your question, it's a qualified "no". Qualified only because testing is highly limited, and no surveillence protocols of milder cases are even being attempted (i.e, with testing).
5
The simplest explanation is that these new patients were infected by someone random who had been to China but the patient doesn't know them personally, so the line can't be explicitly drawn to China. Theories of new strains or poultry borne transmission seems very unlikely. All of these new patients went to work, went to school, went to Starbucks, whatever. They have been in contact with hundreds, maybe thousands of people, so there's no mystery beyond not having perfect information about every human each of these people have been within five feet of in the last three weeks.
10
@David Bartlett - I see nothing implausible with either of your ideas.
One of my favorite things to do late, late at night is smoke some good medical and listen to David Icke and let him spin his best conspiracy theories. Much better than a crime novel.
But I don't think this was intentional but rather a mistake made at a bioweapons lab that escaped or a wet market in need of a subscription to Martha Stewart Living.
Late last night, I was watching CBS news online and they had an "expert" about viruses discussing the matter. He tried to put some perspective on what a virus can do. He said that in the million or so years of human evolution there has been a 1% change in genome (I think that's how he put it). Then he said that a virus can do that in 24 hours. So, yes, a virus can adapt, change, and find new ways quite quickly. But I still think its just humans having contact with other humans like the way we spread a cold or flu.
Still, I enjoyed Icke's questions about whether this was all the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation working with Davos to bring about a one-world government:))) He is soooo much more creative than Rush Limbaugh or Alex Jones.
1
Conservative media need to take the COVID-19 outbreak seriously, stop spreading misinformation and peddling conspiracy theories. Dealing with a deadly infectious disease outbreak should not be a partisan issue. They need to inform the public as this constitutes a global public health emergency.
68
We have nothing to fear, except fear itself! - FDR
6
I am just glad that WHO can make pronouncements without being filtered by the Trump Administration. At least, I hope they aren't!
34
Our own CDC is the organization being muzzled not the world health organization but the US center for disease control- see the difference and the problem?
13
I think it’s interesting that the trump administration brought folks potentially infected to California, a state he’s all but declared war on, and processed those returning with little regard for spreading it locally.
Maybe he’s looking to wipe out those of us who don’t support him?
It’s what maniacal despots do
44
Thank heavens we don’t “ration health care” in this country!
17
What on earth were the Feds thinking sending employees from HHS Administration for Children and Families to care for people in quarantine when they have the United States Pubic Health Service at their disposal? It doesn't make any sense. I fear that shortly after Super Tuesday the virus is going to increase quite rapidly in California.
37
I see that the trump administration is considering the use of the War Powers Act. Color me confused. Does this mean Mr. Market isn't smart enough to know that it'd be a good idea to produce more relevant medical supplies, you know, masks, gloves, COVID-19 test kits,...? I thought the "free market" just automatically knew what, and how much, to produce? Is the Republican party now giving up on another of its sacred beliefs, like they did with tariffs and the national debt? Are they treading on the path to, horrors!, socialism? Say it ain't so, Joe, er, donald.
And, if this is just an evil Dem.media plot to bring down trump, why the need for the War Powers Act? After all, this is just a common cold, right?
C'mon, trump followers, help me here.
53
They, the trump followers, can’t help you here. Why? Cause they are sheep with nose rings who will allow themselves to be led to whatever he and the GOP want them to believe. Bahhhh.
And before anyone complains, the Bernie supporters are kind of unfortunately similarly veined.
Average Americans have lost the ability to engage in critical thinking. And this mess we have is the result.
We have spent decades dumbing down the American population. Mike pence’s Indiana HIV prevention debacle is proof of this. But it is okay. We can lay hands on each other to make things better.
Amen.
1
I’m really not concerned how politically threaten the White House feels.....they lost my vote after the inaugural speech.
24
So they had your vote before the inaugural speech?
@Mbjjake Ah yes, the inaugural speech. I fear we are witnessing "American carnage" in action.....
It’s pretty clear to me that the officials who brought back the people sick with coronavirus in the back of a plane separated by plastic sheeting from the other 300 cruise ship passengers brought it into CA. Then, because the officials there were not trained and did not have the right equipment and did not quarantine themselves but instead went about their lives, then they infected the general population in Northern CA.
So basically, the ineptitude of this administration is why the coronavirus is circling around Northern CA right now.
77
@L
retired AMA attorney F/71
And in all of their home communities PLUS those infected and infecting others thru super-efficient closed airplane air systems during the trips home.
Never strong on math. But do remember addition versus exponential calculations: 2 + 2 = 4 4 + 4 = 8 8 + 8 = 16 versus 2 x 2 = 4 4 x 4 = 16 16 x 16 = 256 .
Highly infective new pathogens follow the second diffusion pattern, right? "Novel" pathogen means no human body's immune system has seen this and built up antibodies to it?
And the fact that healthy young adults with NO symptoms are a primary source of contagion means the China and Italy approach to quarantine is essential to stop spread. All stay inside physically-policed barriers, could be whole counties in N CA?
Extending to all of the maniac in The White House's golf courses, if there is any justice.
8
Now it’s in Oregon, just published in WaPo.
2
Some commenters are blaming both media hype and politics. You remember when there were Ebola cases reported in the US in 2014? The government response was overwhelming and swift. And the loudest voice making political hay out of the issue? Donald Trump.
58
Fascinating nugget buried in the coverage of the WHO response: "The W.H.O. does not officially use the word “pandemic,” often defined as the worldwide spread of a new disease, but many health experts say the coronavirus epidemic is one, or soon will be."
I say "fascinating" because several Fed officials made statements today. At least one (Bullard) indicated he'd only support rate cuts if "the WHO declared a worldwide pandemic". Guess we'll be waiting on that rate cut for awhile, eh?
4
I have this crazy idea. People, make your own masks. They can’t turn out worse than the made in China masks currently out of stock.
12
I am so shocked at how lightly the Trump Administration is taking this potential disaster to our country. Putting Pence in charge was the ultimate insult given his pathetic history of treating the HIV epidemic in Indiana while he was Governor. It should have been a Medical professional in charge. I am afraid we have a manchild running our country.
44
@Philip W VP Pence's job is to help coordinate government resources. He has experrience working with the House, Senate, and President. He is not going to be in a lab or hospital. Tired of all the people constantly fixated on the Administration.
Curious how no point to actions the state and locals are taking to manage this public health virus.
2
@Philip W VP was put in charge because he has the authority to overrule any agency, such as the state department, which was the agency which made the decision to bring the infected Americans back to USA, even though the CDC didn’t want that to happen.
2
Seems like Europe and US gave up on quarantine the virus into oblivion and instead want to normalizing COVID-19 like the flu.
Italy’s quarantine of 10 towns is clearly not enough and hotel in Spain is letting people leave after 4 days. You can look at Iran for what would happen if no quarantine is in place.
South Korea isn’t doing much better but that’s because they are dealing with a 200000 members cult that hid the outbreak and have members go into hiding.
21
There will likely be much less devastation caused directly by Coronavirus infections than by the unintended consequences of drastic actions taken in response to fear and panic stoked by speculation, false assumptions and incomplete information.
14
Well, gee, the government sent untrained workers with no protection to the military base to work with the coronavirus victims, then the workers were free to come and go from the base, probably eating out and shopping, and one got on a commercial airline.
They wonder where this second case came from? Probably from the unprotected medical workers coming and going from the base.
47
Knowing how much Trump likes California he is going to advocate banning travel to that state and may even ask it's borders be sealed. We are in trouble and we are on our own.
22
@SridharC California will be fine. We don't need the US.
3
World Health Organization out to bring donald trump down!!!
6
Wondering if companies will move manufacturing out of China, at least in part, due to this sort of situation likely occurring again - since many pandemics seem to start in China. Putting all your eggs in one basket is never a good idea; the expected supply chain interruptions are already causing fear. Shortages of critical medications is a scary result of the China-focused manufacturing, with many other detrimental impacts to occur too.
5
@Ells
There will be some but multinational are in China not because of cheap labor but because China is the world’s largest market for many goods and also the biggest source of R&D and prototyping.
4
A vast number of products that will be used to fight this outbreak are (were) made in China -
American manufacturing and creativity will be put to the test - other countries were dependent on cheap Chinese labor to make medical equipment as well.. so supplies will be short.
Having clean water and soap will slow the spread - giving us time to increase production of medical equipment to treat the outbreak.
(It is said that plumbers have saved more human life than any other profession. - In this case it may be true!!)
12
There are no clear protocols in place for hospitals to follow when presented with a possible coronavirus case. My husband flew from Venice to Boston on Monday 2/24, just as coronavirus cases were rising in northern Italy. On Thursday he started having cold symptoms. On Friday he had deep chest congestion and coughing. His doctor told him they would not see people coming from Italy in their office, and to go to the ER.
At a hospital ER in southeastern MA, they had no idea what to do with him. ER staff told my husband that they had no protocols for dealing with people coming from Italy. They said he did not meet the criteria for a coronavirus test, even though the media has been reporting that the CDC updated the criteria to include symptomatic persons coming from Italy, South Korea and Iran. The ER personnel knew nothing about this. They tested him for the flu, saying that if he was positive for a known flu, they could rule out coronavirus. The flu test came back negative. A chest x-ray did not show cause for concern. They sent him home without a diagnosis and did not even tell him to self-quarantine! I understand that the chances of his having coronavirus are small. My concern is that medical staff are not trained. This country is NOT prepared for a pandemic.
442
@Ivy Scary. Thanks for posting this.
21
If this is a true story, which it sounds like it might be, which hospital in which city in "southeastern MA"? Would be helpful to those of us who live there and have older relatives at hospitals.
14
My husband was also told this morning the criteria for coronavirus still only included contact with mainland China. He had met with a colleague just returned from Venice while abroad. Thankfully, his cold is very upper respiratory, so the doctor was very confident it was just the cold that is going around.
9
Have all the cases been in colder areas? Maybe if there are no cases in the Southern Hemisphere that would be a good sign that warm weather will stop it.
There are cases now in Africa so it seems that a warm weather is not a factor to consider. Cold or warm it’s spreading..
19
There was a case in Brazil and two in California
11
@Areader
Singapore has 98 cases - 83 more than US per Trump 15. “The climate in Singapore is hot, oppressive, and overcast. Over the course of the year, the temperature typically varies from 76°F to 89°F and is rarely below 75°F or above 92°F.”
Reach your own conclusion.
32
A quarantine won't work if personnel aren't protected. Thanks to the whistleblower we know personnel were not protected on two CA bases when Americanswere broughtback from China. Staff shouldn't have been allowed to be off base unless they themselves passed quarantine as well.
44
There are no clear protocols in place for hospitals to follow when presented with a possible coronavirus case. My husband few from Venice to Boston on Monday 2/24, just as coronavirus cases were rising in northern Italy. On Thursday he started having cold symptoms. On Friday he had deep chest congestion and coughing. His doctor told him they could not see people coming from Italy in their office, and to go to the ER. At a Hospital ER in southeastern MA, they had no idea what to do with him. ER staff told my husband that they had no protocols for dealing with people coming from Italy. They said he did not meet the criteria for a coronavirus test, even though the media has been reporting that the CDC updated the criteria to include symptomatic persons coming from Italy, South Korea and Iran. The ER personnel knew nothing about this. They tested him for the flu, saying that if he was positive for a known flu, they could rule out coronavirus. The flu test came back negative. A chest x-ray did not show cause for concern. They sent him home without a diagnosis, and did not even tell him to self-quarantine! This country is NOT prepared for a pandemic.
42
Bruce Aylward, the lead doctor for the WHO team which recently returned from China, did not think we were prepared and said if he had Covid-9, he would prefer to be treated in China. "How many ventilators do the hospitals have?" He asked. NY Times reporter on "The Daily" said ventilators cost about the same as a car and need three personnel (respiratory techs) to monitor.
I hope the hospitals are able to get sufficient ventilators, not just surgical masks.
Also the Trump Administration and the CDC, by not giving doctors test kits and using overly strict criteria to test, are letting the virus spread in all of our communities. A doctor from the CDC (Redfield) even told Congress that it was not necessary for the public to purchase cleaning supplies. This does not seem like wise advice. Even if we come into contact with Covid-9 virus, keeping surfaces clean would help reduce the viral load so that our body could fight it off more easily.
35
@Melissa Levine
Gosh, back in the 80s when I was a sort of baby intensivist, even the oldest ventilators weren't much bigger than a compact domestic washing washing (or a small, under-counter refrigerator) and they've got smaller since.
ICU nurses - one per patient, usually, monitor the ventilator as part of their general patient care duties. Larger ICUs MAY have a ventilator technician in the background to deal with more complex ventilator issues.
And these are machines for ventilating patients for days, weeks, months. Ventilators for OR use (and in a pinch you can use them for intensive care short-term) are no bigger than a small microwave oven. It's this latter type that seem to be being used extensively in China
12
Not to stir the pot... but it has crossed my mind more than once that this might end up behaving as the Spanish Flu did, manifesting first in a relatively less threatening form and then mutating to become the mega killer it became in its second iteration/ wave.
Does anyone know if work is being done to determine if it shows markers that that might be the case? Are they tracking those who have recovered to ensure there isn't a boomerang effect?
I remain curious that China kicked into such high gear so fast. Don't get me wrong; it's great that they did but nothing like that happened for SARS and MERS which have, on the face of it, much higher fatality rates (7% compared to this 1-3% fatality rate).
My daughter called me from college to ask if it made sense to me that billions would be locked down almost instantly over (at that time) 26 deaths. No. It did not. Perhaps they've just learned from the past, but I wish we could know exactly what they know.
And if there is even a remote chance of a 1918 scenario, we had better be told pronto.Because that one killed, depending on who's counting, close to a hundred million people (some historians put it significantly lower).
The good news is that China does seem to be bouncing back quite well and chances are great that this will play out as it has in China, with one bad hit and then dissipation. Here's hoping for the best.
No matter the outcome, let's learn from this and vow to work harder on global preparedness.
47
@AhBrightWings unlikely. The SARS virus has a mechanism to avoid transcription errors.Given the similarities between this virus and SARS it is likely to have this mechanism as well. Flu viruses lack it and hence mutate much more rapidly.
12
@AhBrightWings Stupidity seems to be in charge on this latest hysteria on the Coronavirus outbreak. It is very unfortunate that some people will die due the virus infection. But STOP and think. Yes, millions of people died but what was the condition of the culture and economy in China in 1918? Roads of commerce were limited, China had a problem with inadequate amounts of food. People were starving. General health was poor. Knowledge of agriculture to feed the millions was insufficient. And ponder for a moment how much more we know on handling viral chest infections in the last century,
Of course the cable news outlets are doing their best to stir up the hysteria.
But I save the worst for the last. Who has confidence that anything that comes out of the Trump administration can believed. Vice President Pence, now in charge of the Trump administration efforts on handling this pandemic, responded that when he was governor of Indiana that people needed to pray more. Well we can always use the extra help of the Almighty, but it is not a substitution for Trump cuting critical budgets like the CDC and not really having any plan in place. And then there are the international financial markets, but not enough time and space to take that on.
15
First, most Americans couldn't possibly understand the chemistry and biological component of this situation, including your daughter, and unless you are a scientist working for the CDC or WHO. Your daughter has never been in a globally threatening situation... perhaps you have not experienced this, either. Bring her home and watch "Outbreak" together, and then take it seriously.
4
Seems pretty clear - invoke the power.
Make the masks - ready the ventilators -
They don’t have a sell-by date.
Best case, they’ll be there when we need them. And some day we will. That’s quite clear.
And if need them soon - how sad if we don’t have them.
32
If we understand the role of asymptomatic carriers, then we can understand why the virus is already here in the US (and everywhere else). The chances that every person who had the coronavirus was screened and deemed unable to board a plane to their destination is zero. Because some people have no symptoms or very mild symptoms.
China was only screening for symptomatic people in their airports.
The coronavirus is already everywhere. In developed countries with better public health polices (where TB is rare, smoking is discouraged, etc) the death rates are low (or zero).
To spend time tracking down contacts of sick patients is no longer a productive.
34
@Vstrwbery I agree. Its here, and it is or will be everywhere within weeks. Asymptomatic transmission and long incubation assures it.
11
If trump had any sense of decency and could put the need to feed his ego aside for one minute, he would have cancelled his rally in South Carolina tonight. But he’s got no decency and his his insecurities would never allow this.
81
@Duncan D Not a Trump fan, but come on, each of the Democratic candidates is still holding large gatherings up through next Tuesday.
If I were on Bernie's staff I'd be slightly concerned; he fits the demographic (older male, preexisting cardiac condition) with the highest mortality rate due to the coronavirus. Campaigning and mingling with large crowds probably isn't the safest thing he can do in a country with a failing healthcare system (his words, not mine).
9
Millions without health incidence. Millions more who can’t afford to go to the doctor because of high deductibles. Sounds like a failing system to me.
12
@Leslie
Based on the tenor of @Duncan D's comment, I'd wager Duncan agrees with you.
Is it just me, or has there been a dearth of information on the corona virus in the United States.
79
@Nancy
retired AMA attorney F/71
Go to free online sources for more detail and experts on so what? questions: The Guardian, POLITICO, and BBC.
Bloomberg TV has been doing an extraordinary job of providing coverage of the facts on the ground too -- not just the financial and economic chaos trigged, but not caused by, this new pathogen.
All of these sources are doing better on facts "in the United States" along with the rest of the world and world and public health leaders.
12
@Nancy
If there is a delay of 4 days before test sent to CDC and CDC reply, then we will have today’s number of infected by Monday/Tuesday.
8
@Nancy
The uninformed are busy with the hysterical comments--so some facts:
CDC estimates that influenza was associated with more than 35.5 million illnesses, more than 16.5 million medical visits, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths during the 2018–2019 influenza season.
3
You don’t know, what you don’t know. If you don’t test for coronavirus you have no idea what the level of infection is. And there have not been enough kits available for broader testing.
Mr Azar please start mask production now! Your head is either above the clouds or in the sand or both. I don’t know what you are waiting for. Where am I in my family going tobuy masks which I might need in two weeks?
43
@SMS
25,000-60,000 die annually in the U.S. from the flu and you do not have a mask? Heavens!
3
Therefore, with the higher fatality rate, Covid-19 has the potential to kill 150,000 to 200,000 people in the US.
1
1) Go directly to the CDC for information. Don’t rely on politicians who have law degrees and journalists with journalism to give you medical advice. Rely on Doctors who have doctorates in medicine to give you medical advice. The CDC has tons of resources and information publicly available.
2) If you are a relatively healthy person, don’t put the immunocompromised individuals in your community at risk. Use hand sanitizer, wash your hands regularly, and for goodness sakes just practice good personal hygiene ANYWAYS. You don’t need a global pandemic as an excuse to practice good personal hygiene.
3) This ain’t the first global outbreak. It will not be the last. Don’t panic. Panic itself is like a virus and can bring havoc on communities and society at large. Remain calm, and read the CDC info on how best to adjust to this event. It’ll be okay.
57
@Austin Ouellette The CDC hasn't been very forthcoming...
13
@Sue Do a google search. There is plenty of info readily available. My county has emailed schools and hospitals protocols for limiting transmission. It is not rocket science on how to minimize the spread.
3
Austin: thanks. Finally somebody with a grain of sense.
The coronavirus mortality rate is "only 2%." That's not too scary, right?
Well, 2% of the U.S. population is roughly 6.54 million people.
Of course it's not likely every American would contract the disease. But here are some projections based on a 2% mortality rate:
50% infection across the USA: 3.25 million dead
25% infection across the USA: 1.63 million dead
10% infection across the USA: 654,000 dead
By comparison, roughly 500,000 Americans died in WWII.
69
@Civic Samurai
There is no credible estimate of the coronavirus mortality rate since there is no credible account on the total infected. Likely much, much less then 2% since deaths are a known and those infected under counted
14
@Civic Samurai It is tricky to estimate. My guess is that infection rate will be under-reported. Recent published studies indicate few patients have prominent upper respiratory tract signs & symptoms (eg rhinorhoea, sneezing, sore throat) indicating that target cells are the lower airways, hence severity (pneumonia). So identifying infective people in the still unknown incubation period (now thought to be 21 days) will likely inhibit containment strategies.
8
@Civic Samurai
Not too scary unless you are the one who is infected by a person. I would want a 0% chance. 2% is one out of every 50 individuals. If it gets really bad that percentage will definitely increase.
There is still time to reduce the risk and therefore the number of individuals who are infected and, consequently, the number of people who die.
Get rid of the politicians and let the REAL experts run the show.
The government's responsibility at this point is to provide the funds to get it done right before too many people die.
11
I wish people cared as much about global climate crisis as the global corona virus. COVID-19 needs our attention, yes, but not our panic. Instead I believe we should be getting updates by our government about the state of the climate crisis and how we can help play a role to help mitigate. Let’s look for enthusiastic comments like these included here on this thread about how our gov can improve, how people can advocate for change. Alas COVID-19 is easier to fret about than the end of civilization as we know it.
42
@Nik
I agree with your general thesis. However, COVID-19 is with us now and there is no future unless it is stopped. As for climate change, there is a way to handle this immediate lethal threat. However, politicians are running the show and they have ABSOLUTELY no knowledge on how to address the Covid-19 issue. Indeed those at the top don't even know who the real experts are - Mike Pence - what a joke.
14
@Nik
Agree. Since population growth creates more global warming fewer would help the situation
1
@Nik
Humans are simply not programmed to be concerned over potential crises that don’t impact themselves directly and are not in the immediate future. We are emotional, not logical thinkers for the most part and are incapable of caring about large groups of people in the abstract. We are largely reactive not proactive.
This is one of the main reasons why having good leaders that can help us focus on the science are so important.
Instead, we have an egomaniacal science denier mumbling about a “miracle”. God help us.
7
It bears repeating that in 2018 Trump fired the government’s pandemic response chain of command, including the White House management infrastructure that President Barack Obama had set up after the 2014 worldwide Ebola outbreak, and cuts in NIH, CDC, and Homeland Security responsible for public health emergencies like we are now experiencing.
It also bears repeating that Trump’s cuts to government programs is in line with other Republican fiscal policy — namely, tax cutter Grover Norquist’s statement that he would like to shrink government to the size where he could drown it in a bathtub.
We are now experiencing the effects of Trump and Republican misguided policies.
181
@Richard not quite yet, we're not; however, when we do experience it, we'll be more concerned with the things that Trump's "policy-fail" let in than with this administration's ineptitude.
The only things Trump cares about is removing environmental safeguards, hollowing-out the bureaucracy, keeping out foreigners and processioning judges.
14
@Richard not quite yet, we're not; however, when we do experience it, we'll be more concerned with the things that Trump's "policy-fail" let in than with this administration's ineptitude.
The only things Trump cares about is removing environmental safeguards, hollowing-out the bureaucracy, keeping out foreigners and processioning judges.
1
@Richard Trump budget proposed cuts to CDC but the the programs were not cut by Congress. Hence, there was no cut to the CDC.
The risk factor is being human and going outside. Solano County is bisected by I-80, the state's main east-west artery, which is traversed by everyone going from the Bay Area to Lake Tahoe to ski every weekend - and pulling off at gas stations, restaurants, and outlet malls along the way. Vacaville houses those outlet malls and shopping centers, including those frequented by students from UC Davis and UC Berkeley (enroute to the mountains), among many other campuses. Santa Clara County has Silicon Valley's major airport. So neither of these patients needed to go to Wuhan or know someone who did, nor do they need to have worked in healthcare or at Travis AFB.
We need to focus on amelioration of symptoms for those infected, protection of children and the elderly most at risk, getting a vaccine in the pipeline, and getting a workable government in place so that we are ready for the next, worse disease or calamity.
41
@Sara All of that sounds great but it's not going to happen during this crisis. Sad but true.
6
@Sara
What have you folks been doing to reduce the 25,000-60,000 deaths annually in the U.S. from the flu.
@Sue What about amelioration of symptoms and protection of those most at risk isn't going to happen? That's all we can do - quit panicking and get practical. Lay in the chicken soup and fluids.
4
Well of course it's already circulating locally. How could it not be given how difficult it is to get approved for the test, have it done and then wait such a long time for results. Not to mention the fact that it has been in China since at least early December and was probably brought here no later than late Dec or early Jan.
In Europe practically anyone who is concerned can get the test, then get the result within hours.
69
The test is not perfect. It gives some false positives. If you start testing everyone you inflate the data. Hence, the need for a set of criteria before testing. The criteria changed after the first batch of community based transmission and it will change again once it is known more about the virus. It is not that doctors don’t want to test but testing everyone and admitting false positives to the hospital will take away beds and resources from those that truly need it
11
@Beto Wouldn't it be better to have some 'false positives' than no treatment at all. The CDC refused to grant testing to the woman now in UC Davis Med Center in Sacramento because she didn't fit their narrow "criteria." She went several days without treatment because of that. It's ridiculous for her not to have been tested immediately, especially since she had been severely ill at another hospital until sent to UCD Medical Center.
33
In Italy they don't haul off everyone who tests positive to the hospital. Only people who are really sick go there. People with no or mild symptoms get to stay home and be treated there, to the extent required.
Personally, if I were going to get it I would much rather get it in Europe.
50
Has anyone considered the possibility of latent virus packaged within virtually ANYTHING manufactured in China and then shipped to the US for sale? I have bought custom Rx eyeglasses from China and had them in my hand in less than a week. Is there any reason to think the virus cannot survive on a contaminated surface a few days in transit? Nearly everything we buy and unpack was recently packed in China, right?
33
Tests show it only lives for a few days on surfaces. Even if an infected person touched your item (most people in China are not sick)it's unlikely to survive by the time it gets here. A hard surface like glasses can we wiped down with wipes or washed with soap and water. In other words, relax
25
I read something in NY Times comments recently from someone who believed it may be in dog food, much of which is apparently made in China now. I have no idea if that is true, but I certainly think it will be interesting to find out what researchers ultimately learn about the virus and how it is transmitted.
3
@northeastsoccermum To be fair to the original questioner, I worked for many years in a veterinary infections disease lab and wondered the same thing because the media has not covered this point of information. There is fairly extensive information on the CDC website but I cannot easily find the answer to this question there in order to produce a citation that confirms this "lives for a few days" assertion. Do you have a citation?
14
This information is from the latest articles in the New England Journal of Medicine. Symptoms: fatigue, cough, fever, trouble breathing. Not all people have all these symptoms. Much less often, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea. Confirmation of infection requires a test for the nucleic acid, which takes time. Most people will have very low white blood cell count. Any age can get it, most are between 35 and 58. Reports that primarily the elderly are at risk is greatly exaggerated; greater risk depends on your general health. Fatality rates are not really known, but between 1% and 3%. If you have high blood pressure or heart disease or any problem with your immune system, you are at greater risk, but by how much is not really known. Average time from exposure to first symptom is 4 days. Death can occur within 10 days, especially if you have trouble breathing. Death is due to organ failure. There is no specific treatment or vaccine. I have not seen any reports on the long lasting effects of the disease. If you recover, you can be reinfected within a week.
114
Nice try and all, but you stirred in a lot of your own nonsense and skipped the careful limtations of its authors.
In particular, pretty sure they said nothing about reinfection, and certainly did not say that there were no added risks for the elderly.
Folks, bit of a warning: whenever anybody just cites a general, authoritative-looking source, and doesn’t give you at least the lead author’s name, most of the title, and a publication date, something’s up. Basically, they’re making it harder for you to go see for yourself.
This is either because they weren’t well-taught themselves—which raises questions about their ability to undrestand what they claim to have read—or because they’re up to something. Very commonly, the Trumpist and fear mongering types like to maintain plausible deniability...if you go look and call them out, they’ll simply clAim they meant a different article.
Sorry in advance if I’m completely wrong, and missed it myself. But i looked; the latest doesn’t say this, and the others really aren’t about clinical symptoms and mortality rates. Which by the way, is a common trick among warming deniers: technocal doscussions on sensor limits, for example, become “proofs,” of the hoax.
Here’s the reference; see for yourself. And nice work, China.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2002032
9
Thanks for giving out this good information.
3
@sandhillgarden
Sounds like the flu that kills 25,000-60,000 people annually in the U.S.
"The U.S. Navy ordered dozens of ships, with thousands of service members, to stay at sea for the next two weeks, after visiting Pacific ports."
That is both a sign of trying to cope, and very scary.
36
Hopefully out of an abundance of caution...
The public hasn't received much information about WHO is most likely to die. Since the virus frequently attacks the lungs, I would think that most of the deaths are people who have compromised lung function, compromised general health, frequently old people. But then there are all those young, previously healthy medical professionals. This makes me think that how frequently you are exposed to people w/ the virus may be an important factor in whether you survive an infection. I wish we were given that kind of information instead of a constant stream of 'OH OH OH, it's spreading all over the world! Be Afraid, be paralyzed with fear!' We get it, it's contagious.
24
@Jenifer
If it’s like other viral infections it’s not likely the outcome depends on how many exposures you have. That issue should only play into how likely you are to first get the infection. The course of the illness is an interplay of your immune system, general health, the virulence of your particular infecting strain, how your treatment is handled, and sometimes more than a bit of luck.
9
I read, and I can't remember where, that young healthy people may be susceptible because their immune systems are so strong they over-react. I wish I could remember more about this and how that over-reaction works, but I can't.
2
@ellienyc That was what happened in the Spanish flu. The body released cytokines, and the primary battle ground was the lungs. Later results showed that the lungs looked like they had been striated by poison gas. It was the strong immune response of the young that caused that damage.
15
The US Navy is repeating the same mistake made with the Diamond Princess cruise: Keeping all sailors quarantined on their ship maximizes how many of them will get infected. This highlights the continued ineptitude of the Trump administration. What should be done is: 1. Bring all ships to one or more dedicated harbors where all people on the ship can be triaged by adequately protected personnel, 2. Run immediate blood tests on everyone, 3, Immediately divide people into 2 groups: those who are sick and those who are not. Once blood test results are known, divide the asymptomatic sailors according to those who are asymptomatic but test negative, and those who test positive but are asymptomatic. Anyone who becomes ill in this latter group should be moved to the first group. By doing this fewer people will become sick (saving lives and costs) as well as shortening the time of quarantine for many, if not most of the sailors. I am a retired physician but this is largely and simply a logic problem. Keeping sailors on the ships, where proper quarantining can not be performed, is reckless and harmful.
119
@peterlbailey You need the facilities to do that, and do it quickly. The Pacific is a big ocean; it takes a long time to get anywhere, and would take a long time to get all of those ships in one place.
2
@D. Cassidy Well then do it as fast as possible. If necessary develop more local centers to deliver care. Better than what happened on the Diamond Princess. The way it was handled maximized the number of people who were sick and then they were transported only to further spread the disease and had to begin quarantine all over again. It makes no sense.
5
@peterlbailey I was thinking the same thing. This is a disaster in the making. Ditto with prisons.
We will never be free from microbial disease.
Microbes have secrets which take us years to discover even with today’s hard-earned and yet limited understanding. As with HIV-AIDS and Ebola, they are becoming better at defying our methods.
Plague is named one of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. While I am not a religious extremist, I am a scientist who recognizes the threat to our own existence as well as that of the planet whose life we continue to exploit and destroy. Earth’s former bounty has definite limits which we have increasingly ignored as we overpopulate, overuse and contaminate.
In spite of the mass of information and factual discovery accumulated over many years, blind ignorance persists among those who choose to refuse our responsibility to lessen our current rate of abuse, in as many ways as possible, regardless of the cost.
Those who are less impacted by the present well-known effects of our past damage will not be easily moved to do their part. The rest of us are the ones who must join the few who now have the courage to speak.
Our youth especially are at risk, for it is their future that is most threatened, a future their parents and ancestors have put in jeopardy.
Today’s women can be counted upon to sacrifice for the sake of their children and grandchildren.
An obvious dilemma exists in the dominance by men in the fields of government and business.
It is a dominance by the self-interested, the power-mad and the greedy.
Think about it.
31
I was whole heartedly agreeing with you until your last three sentences. I am not sure where you live but here in Trump country environmental ignorance runs equally in both genders.
That said, the rest of your post is what I (a male) have been trying to tell people for 20 years. We are approaching or have surpassed the capacity of this planet.
16
Except, this isn’t a microbe.
Singapore has shown the world a way by closing entry of infected persons and China with the most number of infected and deaths has got a grip of the situation. America has shown preparedness by ensuring not a single US resident has died and Africa has is free of Corona infected persons except the one that traveled to Nigeria from Italy. W.H.O. has had very to do with the great news. Panic, paranoia and fear mongering has been defeated by the countries of the world. The situation is under reasonable control.
The only fear left is the unjustified pandemic of panic and jittery stock market. Have a great weekend. Next week will be better days. In the mean time investment diversification would be advisable. The CD interests of 1.45% looks attractive considering the collapse of last week.
12
@Girish Kotwal it's definitely not unjustified. If you have cases whose origin cannot be accounted for now appearing on every continent except Antarctica, you have a coming pandemic. That is why the WHO keeps raising the threat level. The stock market is responding to the science.
22
I can't help but wonder how much fear of Covid-19 is fueled by media hype. The virus comes across as being no worse than a cold, or, maybe the flu, if one catches it. Yes, it may be more contagious and the incubation period is longer which leads to more people getting the virus and spreading it before they know they have it. If you are healthy to begin with, you'll pull through. If your immune system is compromised because you smoke, are in poor health, or older, then it's a little more dicey. Outcomes for those people are similar to what happens if you catch a cold or the flu. I think the world is over-reacting. No one freaks like they are now when it's flu season, and close to 56k people in the USA die from it each year, and countless more world wide.
12
@Jakobus
As has been said all over the place: death rates from Covid19 are 20-30 times higher than the flu. 56 k flu deaths is plenty - but deaths in the US per one year of a Covid-epidemic, could possibly reach a million or more. And there is a possibility of mutations that would pull these rates higher or lower. - A lot of unknowns that should make us careful about this virus :)
45
@Riddararaddir
What we do know is that 25,000-60,000 die annually in the U.S. from the flu. Even with treatments and vaccines. There may be a treatment in 3-6 months and vaccine in 12-18 months. The coronavirus mortality rates are completely unknown since the total infected are under counted. Guess if you want but likely substantially less than 2%. May be less than the common flu
3
@Jakobus NY Times and NPR are my primary sources of information about Covid-19, and I haven't read or heard anything resembling hype. I'm concerned, not alarmed - and I'm heading to Europe in a few weeks.
But of course, the more gullible one is, the more likely they're tuned in to Fox or MSNBC, where the only objective is keeping eyeballs on the screen. No doubt they're deep into wall-to-wall breathless speculation.
8
Why the hand-wringing over whether this is an epidemic or a pandemic? Useless semantics, and if this isn't a pandemic then what is? We are being lied to at every turn. Refusal to test sick people, being told masks are useless, being told most of us will only get a mild case. If this is nothing worse than a seasonal flu then why all the pictures out of China with people in hazmat suits fumigating streets and shops? China building an insolation hospital in 10 days, would they build a hospital for the common cold? My feeling is this is a bioweapon that escaped from a lab in China, and we are not being told to avoid mass unrest and worse.
18
@Roberta
Answer. As a precaution they over reacted because no vaccine and no known treatments.
3
Thanks, Jude Law. Very useful.
1
another theory is this is a viral attack from USA to damage China. Italy just signed on with Belt and Road Initiative while Korea and Japan are mending their relationship with China. Then you have Iran suffering the same outbreak.
Well, get as healthy as you can in case you are afflicted later, thus helping your chances of surviving. I've already started my walking and healthy eating consciousness.
17
@Patrick—try as I do to stay healthy, I have several autoimmune conditions, one of which affects my lungs. I know I’m not alone. It doesn’t matter what I do, because there is no cure, only treatment that suppresses the immune system. It’s not as simple as you say for everyone. Please get real.
4
From the article:
"Italy reported more than 800 infections on Friday — 531 of them in Lombardy, which includes the city of Milan. Almost half of those infected in Lombardy have been hospitalized, and one-sixth of them are in intensive care.
Nurses and doctors are getting ill, protective supplies are in short supply and treatment for other serious conditions may be compromised, officials said."
I guess I don't see how this isn't going to happen in the U.S.
61
People wont go to hospital in the US because they will be bankrupted by the bills that arrive in the post. Therefore the disease could spread far quicker than in countries where there is a tax-payer subsidised health system.
49
@Lisa Simeone Really? Why not? Doctors here have said that we are totally unprepared.
Take heart there is a silver lining for those concerned with rising healthcare costs, social security, mass migrations, extinctions and yes, global warming. Population growth contributes negatively to all. At least to date the elderly and those with chronic (expensive) health conditions are especially vulnerable to the coronavirus. Tragic as it may be for these individuals the earth may well benefit from their misfortune.
3
@clarity007 Eliminating Trumpism among the populations will accomplish much the same as killing off old people, and is evolutionary, rather than reactionary.
@clarity007
If that’s how you feel, let’s start with you or your family first.
Sad, but the world will benefit from a few less inhabitants
@clarity007
Perhaps you'd like to read this over and pause to consider how heartless you sound. I grow very weary of this meme trotted out incessantly whenever there is a crisis.
Yes. The world is overpopulated. No. The answer is not hoping for a pandemic to eradicate those YOU deem expendable. It's always fascinating in these scenarios that it's the other guy you're quite pleased to kill off, not your and yours.
1
Hmmm... Pandemic used to mean evidence of parallel self-sustaining spread in two continents. Looks like the WHO has changed that to be in *all* continents. When is Antartica getting its first case?
The WHO is losing all credibility --firstly by acquiescing to the declining Chinese new infection numbers that are certainly made-up, then by blessing quarantines in converted stadiums which only self-propagate contagion, and then by allowing its policy of misinformation and censure.
And now, redefining pandemic?
13
@Yoandel
WHO said 'all INHABITED continents', so correct.
I'm not sure what's behind all this undermining of WHO, online. Ludicrous, baseless claims that senior WHO officials are taking cash bribes from the Chinese government - and now your claim that WHO are complicit in the falsification of Covid statistics.
The WHO have a large team on the ground in China - including Americans. How big's your team in China?
Is the worry that WHO is an independent non-US organisation able to call out Trump's er, 'mis-statements'?
1
As a retired MD, I know 10,000 times more about infectious disease than Trump Pence together. In turn, the CDC knows 10,000 times more than I do. Let the pros there do their jobs or we WILL have a disaster, that much is sure.
155
we need to block this the way we blocked the CDC from communicating directly with the public. I trust my government to do the right thing. see?! You can have a socialist type of government with electing Sanders.
@Greg Jones
Block what? In your rush to disparage Sanders, you seem to have missed telling us what else you would gleefully eradicate ...the news? Papers? Headlines? The disease?
Whatever it is, your blithe endorsement of despotic impulses is not reassuring.
Donald Trump is one of the most intelligent and brave presidents the USA has ever had. He'll do what's best to fight this outbreak.
6
@Tim Please say you're being sarcastic.
11
@Tim Please say you're being sarcastic.
3
@Tim Please say you're being sarcastic.
3
I knew it was good idea when Trump fired our pandemic response team.
Look at all the money we saved. Time for another tax cut!
14
It looks like the vector is animal likely a pet. The infected pet does not get sick but the owner gets sick and hence the transmission of the disease to other humans. It is reminiscent of the Simian virus in green monkeys without the disease mutating to HIV causing disease in humans.
1
The “weakly positive” and no transmissible virus means it’s most likely genetic contamination. This info should never have been published it’s something to keep the masses excited about while this spreads like wildfire, or wait, a virus with an R naught of 2-5
1
No, it doesn’t look like pets are the source.
4
Yeah no there is no evidence of this. The origin of the virus in humans may have be an animal, but there is no suggestion by anyone that it is spreading via pets. An irresponsible comment.
There is a saying one in the hand in worth more than 2 in the Bush. The selling by investors is nothing but profiting taking. None of the investors in the panic selling mode are thinkers, medical virologists or public health specialist. They see it as an opportunity to sell while the stocks still yield good values. Uncertainties in life can result in panic and paranoia and we get it. When the going gets tough the tough will hold and the scaredy cats will sell.
INFECTION WITH CORONA DOES NOT EQUAL DEATH. Far from it. Most have no serious symptoms and 98% of those that are immunocompetent will survive even after an infection. There is nothing to fear but fear itself.........FDR
4
Have you considered the impact of this on the supply side & how that could trigger a recession?
Perhaps those selling have a shorter time frame than you do to recover their losses?
8
@Jonathan from CA. It is not illegal to sell when you want. People are free tp buy and sell whenever they want. I was just explaining the effect of panic selling on the markets. Some make a killing and others are left with an empty bag. You snooze you lose. It is that simple.
1
Like, says, the three young Chinese doctors who died?
Hong Kong recently tested the pet dog of a COVID-19 patient and found it to test positive as well for the virus. Given the CDC has tested less than 500 people in the US and China alone has tested a thousand times that, not including pets, it’s clear the US is flying blind. Perhaps healthcare would be of more interest to the parent of a sick child than an interest rate cut or tax break. Never mind that an interest rate cut isn’t going to boost production when workers stay home from illness. Looking at the COVID-19 infection rate in China when they tried to ignore/hide the problem (as we are now) shows we’ve barely just begun to see the impacts. What are we going to call Trump's response? Pence's pandemic?
https://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/202002/28/P2020022800013.htm
10
What's the mortality rate for newborn infants?
I think there isn’t a large enough group of infected infants to know, but babies and children seem to be stronger. One study followed 9 hospitalized infants in Wuhan, all who escaped without serious complications. Try not to worry too much!
7
Infants and kids are much less likely to get the virus than adults
4
@Kate, however this would depend on the birth delivery method. C-Section births will be far more liable to contract a disease due to a reduced immune system.
2
America lost one month when it could have rapidly stood up testing throughout the country. Instead we're flying blind with barely any testing for what may be thousands of cases that are spreading. When the history of this event is written, at least for the US, this wasted month will no doubt be assessed as a tragic mistake, and one borne of complacency and incompetence.
38
Pandemic. We have a worldwide infections. Let us get used to the description of this new threat to human life. The World is unprepared which is not surprising. It is impossible to be on top of every health threat. We have always beat back ebola, a far more serious affliction.
4
Switzerland has put the number of allowed gatherings to under 1000 because if someone is infected it is still possible to track all the people who were in contact with the sick person in order to put them into quarantine. That way they hope to keep the infection in a careful controlled form..
3
This is simply the Spanish Flu of 1918 all over again, because there is no vaccine yet. Since vaccines became widely available, influenza is less potent. But this covid-19 is new, so it is like 1918 was. Study 1918 to get some idea of how this will play out.
5
@Will Hogan The efficacy of medical care was very, very different in 1918, along with basic hygiene and general knowledge. It isn’t helpful to make the comparison.
2
@Will Hogan
Fortunately, medical care has advanced rapidly since 1918. It's not a valid comparison, and borders on fear mongering.
1
Except this spreads faster...
Tedros from WHO needs to step down if he keeps denying the current Coronavirus isn't a pandemic. He should have called this last month before it's spreading like wild fire.
The U.S needs to restrict tourists entering the country from those like China, South Korea, etc until we got this under control.
9
@Hendry Agree. It's on every continent now. I guess he's waiting for Antarctica....
What a convenient way for China and Japan to deal with its aging population! Especially all those old people who smokes too.
virus experts say it's like the flu without the body aches and fatigue QED
But Dervish multi-tasker Pence is on the job. His only only rivals are Dear Leader and Princeling Kushner, so be assured he will keep the Club for Growth metastasizing with his right hand while curing COVID-19 with his left.
Nothing to fear.
8
@Prof You need to stop seeing every action through your political lens. You are going to exhaust yourself and not solve anything.
It’s a pandemic.
Can one and all stop with the uncertain hesitant language of perhaps, may, might, &c. &c. It is in fact a pandemic. The WHO fully knows it is a pandemic. Every expert knows it is a pandemic. We are past the time to put all pandemic plans into action. Stop with the politics, let’s help save lives, let’s get behind the largest public health prevention push this world has ever seen.
So, yes, cancel that travel plan, cancel the sports event, stop hesitating.
19
Sincere question to all those who claim that this virus is no big deal, is just another flu, no more than a bad cold, etc.:
Why do you think China has gone to such extraordinary lengths to contain it? Why has the Chinese govt thrown its country into chaos (albeit organized chaos), disrupted its economy, shut down entire regions? Why are workers walking around fully garbed in PPE, still? Why was Dr. Li Wenliang so concerned?
You think they're just being hysterical? Overly dramatic?
What about WHO and the CDC? Why are they taking this so seriously? Same reasons?
This is an honest question, and I'd like to hear from some of the naysayers out there.
30
"Global pandemic" is redundant. A pandemic IS a world-wide epidemic.
10
It’s a pity that the media is dog whistling on this. Sure, it sells more papers.
But so far, in 3 months, this virus has killed less than half the people that die every hour of natural causes.
Maybe some balance in reporting is in order, instead of this uncontrolled fanning of the panic flare?
2
Dr McNeil ,a NYT contributor on contagious disease for several years points out the benefits of quarantine in controlling the spread of the Corona virus. The old fashion way better than the modern way. Disraeli pointed out the duplicity of statistics 150 years ago should old fashioned ways be preferred.
Without using a calculator it seems that the mortality rate is higher in Wuhan, on the Japanese cruise ship, and every where else quarantine is used to control the spread the corona virus to the broader population. Also an increased rate of contagion in these quarantined groups. These people become sacrificial lambs. God did not make Abraham kill Isaac . Why can't this pandemic be treated with science and mercy?
1
And will China learn anything from this? Will people stop the horrible poaching and killing of endangered species and the cruel treatment of animals in marketplaces all because of old superstitious beliefs about magical powers in animal parts? I hope so, for animals and humanity's sakes.
19
Not that these practices shouldn't stop, but the treatment of food animals in the USA is terrible as well, with the difference in suffering so little that it's basically all the same. People just need to stop eating animals. Raising animals for food is always going to be awful. There's no polite way to take a life.
2
Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, Director of WHO, is both incompetent and sluggish judging by his playing down the crisis, delaying travel warnings and his obsession with which kind of word he uses so that Xi wouldn’t look so irresponsive. This is not a disaster fueled by climate change, but this is a disaster caused by Chinese bureaucratic system and now the world shall pay the price.
5
Sincere question to all those who claim that this virus is no big deal, is just another flu, no more than a bad cold, etc.:
Why do you think China has gone to such extraordinary lengths to contain it? Why has the Chinese govt thrown its country into chaos (albeit organized chaos), disrupted its economy, shut down entire regions? Why are workers walking around fully garbed in PPE, still? Why was Dr. Li Wenliang so concerned?
You think they're just being hysterical? Overly dramatic?
What about WHO and the CDC? Why are they taking this so seriously? Same reasons?
This is an honest question, and I'd like to hear from some of the naysayers out there.
14
Everyone is hoping the virus diminishes when warm weather ensues, but what if it doesn't? Iran might be a place to watch closely. It's spreading rapidly there and they have a very warm climate. If Covid-19 continues to spread when it gets hot in Iran, look out.
7
@Mark McIntyre I thought so, too, but looking at weather for Qom, it has night temps in the 30s and 40s, highs in 50s and 60s... Singapore is interesting to watch re: weather; while they had a lot of cases early on, numbers in northern Italy seem to be escalating exponentially each day
@Mark McIntyre Numerous cases (> 60) found in Singapore already, and it's been summery there.
2
@Mark McIntyre If it doesn't diminish you learn to live with it. You wash your hands to minimize exposure, dont shake, and stay home if sick. The world will go on. People have to go to work to put food on the table and pay the mortgage. You cant hide out in your house for a long period. Like Sars, Zika, Mad Cow, this too shall pass.
Are flights arriving from affected countries to the U.S. being restricted???
6
@Hope Kitts Not all areas, no.
1
@Hope Kitts Delta still has flights to and from Italy https://www.delta.com/us/en/advisories/other-alerts/coronavirus-situation-in-italy
1
SO much to on teevee this weekend....the primary,the news shows..
What I'm really hoping for is a Gibberish Speech by Trump..a long,rambling, ridiculous diatribe,maybe an hour or so?
I need a good laugh after this week.
He can use this as his model..from what Trump said, verbatim, on Tuesday night..when he blamed the Dem debate for the first 2000 point fall.. the debate which happened AFTER the drop...
Such fine prose, such well connected and constructed thoughts...just read slowly and try to imagine Trump blabbering this gibberish to America as they watch the bumblers in office wreck our life savings:
And now : The President of the United States:
"We have 15 people infected but not too bad, but there are only 9 that are serious but they are from Japan we felt we had to bring over, we didn't really have to, but they are citizens and Congress....Congress gave us too much money, but we will take it, not as much for the Wall...and the 15 patients are doing great...China, China is doing a great job just like India, but everything is ok, many people say we couldn't get it done, but the Coronavirus is in good shape, I mean, the 15 people are in good shape, because we are great"
11
trump was right about one thing; the Coronavirus is in good shape.
11
And the White House response is apparently going to be ..... The cut more taxes. But I would really like to understand how companies buying even more of their stocks back, is going to help anything???? Any Body????
6
@Pedter Goossens I guess you opposed TARP and Obama's stimulus in 2009 to help the nation get through the financial crisis and recession? This is just another form of crisis that is impacting supply chains and can kill demand, spiking uneemployment.
@Pedter Goossens Well, Trump's response at his rally tonight was to call it a "hoax". No, really!
Pastor Pence has everything under control.
"Let us pray..."
12
A description of the clinical characteristics of infection is reported in the latest edition of the New England Journal of Medicine. Just Google: "Clinical Characteristics of Coronavirus Disease 2019 in China"
7
@sandhillgarden
It's a China authored study (China Coronavirus Expert Group), funded centrally - so we can expect it to be questioned and dismissed by the Right.
NEJM has decent editorial standards - and it's been peer reviewed.
1
Trump, "I put Mike Pence in charge of the Coronavirus not Roger Daltrey and Pete Townshend!"
1
Trump in South Carolina: Nero fiddled while Rome burned...and how’d that work out?
6
Has Mick Mulvaney read any of this? Cough, cough. If he has he should be administered a test for comprehension. I think Mick wouldn’t pass.
5
Can we send this Trump? It’s kind of like there is no global warming. Let’s see how he feels with virus reality.
When I saw the dog tested positive, and I saw that there hundreds of dogs roaming the streets of Wuhan, it crossed my mind whether they are the perfect vector - like other animals . They themselves dont become sick, but their absent owners indicate that they have been hospitalized or have died.
31
@scientella
retired AMA attorney F/71
Be careful about drawing any conclusions about contagion vectors from stories with a mix of anecdotes, e.g., animals-to-human transmission? Rarely happens, as with swine flu, for reasons easy to research.
What should get our attention is the number emerging on asymptomatic human-to-human contagion: experts are reviewing and confirming data from China and Italy that show young healthy adults make up most of the asymptomatic but POSITIVE-by-test results. The number is now 82% positive with no symptoms.
I've changed my advice to young healthy people about the reason they should consider deferring commercial plane travel and sit tight where they are in this country or outside: You may be feeling fine, no symptoms, but be test-positive and carry COVID-19 to friends and family with pre-existing conditions that typically leads to bad outcomes.
Spring Breakers? Skip this year.
NY State's lab experts and Vanderbilt's seasoned pediatric infectious disease specialists are working on creating and validating a reliable point-of-care screening test for this virus. May be months to get to competent mfr like Quidel with its established POC flu A/B rapid tests.
Give these experts time to do what CDC cannot do because its infectious disease specialists and lab were wiped out in 2018. Nancy Cox, formerly CDC ID Director, is engaged too -- and cannot be silenced by the self-destructing man and his rippling mania in The White House.
26
Dogs roaming in the streets probably never had owners. There are many places where feral dog packs are the norm. I saw many packs in Sicily where they congregated around tourist sites to eat the left over food tourists disposed of.
5
@n.c.fl Scary data on the asymptomatic carriage! I think it's here, by the time we get decent surveillence testing up it'll be everywhere. I don't believe that's being alarmist, just realistic. Agree on the CDC funding, I fear it will have devastating consequences. (Along with Bolton dismissing the NSC pandemic czar and eliminating the position).
1
What I'm waiting for from WHO is a clinical explanation about the virus itself.
Does infection return to those who had it and got over it, like I just read is already happening in Wuhan to some early patients?
Do you become immune once you have contracted it?
What is the status of a possible vaccine?
Once infected does the virus remain active in the body after recovery?
How is the human immune system reacting to the virus?
Can humans infect animals like pets and vice-versa, like it happened already to a dog of an infected patient?
I know it's early in the crisis but the world needs to know more specific info on Coronavirus, and on future risks of other possible similar viruses.
60
@JCA Even if a vaccine to Covid-19 is developed, a lot of time and resources are needed to produce it in sufficient quantities to be useful.
Being an RNA virus, it may mutate like influenza does - in which case the vaccine will need to be changed, too.
Finally, we don't know how long immunity to Covid-19 will last. We don't develop lasting immunity to the corona viruses which cause the common cold, hence the annual "winter cold season" as well as "summer colds".
1
@JCA Good luck getting answers from the CZAR Pence. He cannot answer any of those cogent questions.
1
Given the new data coming in such as the Whistleblower case, it seems premature to make snap judgments. I look forward to hearing what the public health experts say as new information comes in.
11
The graph in the section, "How bad will it get?" tells us a lot; it tells us where this corona virus stands in deadliness and contagion compared to other well known infections. What's striking is that the peach colored area for this virus is huge compared to the pin point areas of the other infections plotted here. That tells us we have yet to understand how dangerous covid 19 is; it is still an unknown pathogen and unknowns always fuel anxiety. It is the vertical axis that's the most variable, so this tell us there is much uncertainty of its fatality rate. I think this is because we don't know how many people contracted this virus without coming to medical attention; we know the ones that got to a hospital but we don't know how many subclinical cases have occured.
I hope the Times continues to update us on this graph; that peach colored area will surely shrink down as cases develop and conclusions can be drawn. And let's have a source for this graph. It's surely a reputable source since it plots exactly what we need to know about how dangerous this virus is.
26
Finally! They should have done this ages ago so countries that can't think for themselves, like Iceland, I'm afraid, would have been better prepared instead of relying on reactive bureaucratic procedures as usual.
3
The amount of panic doesn't seem to meet the numbers on the ground. We talk about 56 countries but the overall reported number are very low. It appears statistically that I have better chance of winning Power Ball than dying from Corona.
10
@Lord Varys
I see this type of comment a lot, even before the stock market plummeted. Where do you see panic? I see people actually talking about it and stocking up on food and supplies, something they should have started doing months ago. That's not panic. That's preparedness.
96
@Lord Varys
The numbers infected are probably significantly higher, but the testing protocols are excluding many who have mild to no symptoms, a significant amount. See the testing done in Northern Italy, which included asymptomatic people to see a more realistic sample. The numbers you see for the USA are not representative, intentionally so, I'd imagine. Contagion and spread are not the only things that are being managed, expectations as well, such as yours, and mine, to an extent.
19
@Alicia You sound like the person that rushes to the supermarket to buy bread and milk when it is going to snow out.
Will the Corona virus reach the US, yes. Can you isolate yourself in your house for more than a week, no. Good luck telling your employer you are not coming back to the office.
America is like a third world country in terms of testing this virus. We can't even get it together to test people quickly. We're down at the bottom with Africa and Indonesia.
111
@Not 99pct
If the first case had been in a "red state' ( Iowa for instance) the test kit would've been delivered by hand on AF One.
First test criteria: "Are you a Republican"?
9
“Third world”. “Down at the bottom”. America has way more significant problems than an inability to test for the virus.
2
Though the pain to those lucky enough to have a 401K is significant, (excluding the 1%), I personally believe the bubble is now blown. That it is done by Mother Nature, and cannot be controlled or managed by trump and his minions, is even sweeter. Bittersweet, but absolutelky necessary.
Their incompetence, Kudlow the know nothing (6 mos before 9/2008-nothing to worry about Kudlow), means the entrirety of ther radical right wing is getting slammed in the credibility dept.
That also means Fox, and the know nothing talking heads. the emotion drivers that kill countriues. Yell louder pls Still nobody with any sense will hear your screams.
Thank you Mother Nature. Stick around to see how ther radical right wing eats their crow. And trhe countrry draws on its' strreengths of intellerct, intelligence, scientific knowledge and ingenuity to resolve this crisis.
none of these attributes will come from the control freaks in 1600. None at all.
Hear that loco Steve Bannon?
Shrieky Laura ingraham?
Dying rush limbaugh?
Genius Jared Kushner?
53
@adam stoler
"Trump Says the Democrats are Blaming Him"
"Mulvaney Says the Media Is Exaggerating the Virus to Hurt Trump"
Have we ever seen a whinier, more finger-pointing, pathetic pack of incompetent grifters? So yes, Trump, we blame you for cutting the legs out from under our pandemic planning and response efforts. And yes, Mick, the media is reporting what a mess you've all made.
What needs to happen is one of the Democrats running for president should start going on The major news networks and social media every day acting presidential and telling Americans how to handle this, what we should be doing and what they would be doing as president. We have to completely Ignore Trump and the Primitives he is running the government. We need a voice of sanity. To sit here and think that they’re only handful of cases the United States is insane I would estimate or 20 to 30,000 cases. At a minimum.
178
I agree and have been thinking the same thing. A calm, scientifically literate voice, speaking on various platforms. Someone who can explain the facts, understand probability and variable scenarios, promote epidemiological advice, and speak clearly to the general public about healthy practices. Someone who will speak over and over again, calmly and respectfully to the American people, and remain undaunted in the face of misinformation and personal attacks. Someone persistent, knowledgeable, and trustworthy. Is this too much to ask?
82
@Mars I could not agree more and have been thinking exact same. Gavin Newsom is making a good show of it already. The current “leadership” is irrelevant. Let’s have some thinking adults take over.
17
@Lelah
Where is FDR when we need him?
(Seriously, Trump could do far worse than watch FDR's speeches if he truly cares to learn how to calm people down in the face of panic due to an obvious terrible situation.)
4
...may be a global pandemic?
Honey, we're already there.
58
What golf course is Trump on today? Or is he a believer now? Shame on him!
30
Whatever you do, don’t ask Dr. Fauci.
13
Precisely who they should consult is Dr. Fauci.
Have they appointed Martin Shkreli as vaccine czar yet?
49
He's not nearly corrupt or incompetent enough to secure a job in that administration.
5
There are several walls that standout to me in ancient and modern human history (or at least mythology): The Great Wall of China; Hadrian's wall; the Walled City of Troy; The Maginot Line (to stop a German Invasion), The Atlantic Wall (built by Hitler to stop an allied invasion of Europe); The Berlin Wall (to keep East Germans from leaving); and Trump's Wall to keep immigrants out.
The one thing we know from all these walls is they all failed in their purpose and were a waste of resources that ultimately contributed to their nations collapse.
If there is one thing we have learned from the Coronavirus Outbreak, you can never build a wall tall enough, wide enough, strong enough, or long enough to keep real threats from ultimately getting in or the truth from ultimately getting out.
Too bad Trump is too ignorant to read history or he would have understood this and instead of wasting billions on a useless wall he would have spent it on a stronger healthcare system; instead of building barriers between nations he would have strengthened alliances to work better together in times of crisis.
69
Mail your ballots.
47
@Charlie Chan I vote on 3/17. So, you first!
Would really appreciate it if The NY Times would keep the live update page is sequence, i.e. new articles at the top. Also, if you update an article please somehow highlight that information so I don’t have to reread them all for the few sentences that are new. Super lame.
Also, The NY Times has the least amount of “how to prepare” info online. Really?1
39
@Celebes sea They should follow The Guardian's live updates format, it's awesome and highly addictive.
Dear NYT,
It's beyond time the world stops using "sub-Saharan" references. NYT, please take the lead and stop using this term. Is there anything wrong with using North/South/West/East Africa?
Thank you for the reporting!
19
@Kate
Why? The Sahara does divide the continent, and the only other way to describe sub-Saharan Africa would be "East, West, and South Africa" (a bit of a mouthful, and "South Africa" is ambiguous as country/region) or, worse, "Black Africa". In many ways, the Sahara is a greater barrier to trade and culture than the Mediterranean.
6
Honestly - "Drumbeat" and "Sub-Saharan" together? Come on, NYT - you are better than than, aren't you?
14
Here is how New Zealand's health system and government is dealing with this:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/410642/new-zealand-moving-into-next-phase-with-first-positive-covid-19-coronavirus-case-expert-says
5
It needs 15 minutes to get infected
If and when the virus spreads here in the U.S., I hope that precautions are taken by allowing people to work from home, alter their work schedules, or telecommute.
I also think it would be prudent to temporarily close places where people congregate such as schools, and even jury duty, for example.
Flexibility and alternate arrangements should be made for those who do not feel comfortable going to work, school, jury duty, etc.
24
@Ashley You must be fortunate where you work. Doubt police, corrections, manufacturing, transportation, or medical professionals will be able to telecommute.
It is able controling the virus by using precautions, not destroying an economy by putting all restaurant workers, delis, and retail out of business.
2
It would be helpful if the W.H.O would provide details of those who have died from the virus; what was the age range, what percentage were heavy smokers, what percentage were obese, what percentage had prior respiratory issues, what percentage had diabetes, were they sedentary, etc.? Since I have none of these issues it would be a great relief for me to know that I am not in the target range.
9
In Italy, only people older than 80 and with other parhologies died
1
Good luck with hopeful thinking.
During the Pandemic 1918 Flu it was young healthy men who had the highest mortality rate. Because they had young, vigorous immune systems, their bodies had a massive inflammatory response to the virus, creating fluid in their lungs.
Of course, different viruses behave differently, and we have not heard enough about how this virus behaves, who is most at risk. It is true that the elderly and the very young are usually most at risk, as well as people with significant health problems, like cardiovascular, respiratory, and metabolic ( like diabetes) illnesses/diseases.
Everyone should wash their hands frequently, avoid touching their nose, mouth, or eyes (entry points for virus), stay away from sick people, isolate yourself if you are sick, avoid large crowds, if possible. (This is called social distancing.)
CDC.gov
4
There have been several other viral threats during the Obama Administration. Didn’t the government stock up on all of the non perishable items and set up numerous specialized medical facilities then? I therefore don’t understand the hysteria about a potential lack of supplies and facilities.
1
@Rock Winchester .. Those stockpiles were for the flu. Covid-19 is not the flu. Nor is there a vaccine for it. The Obama administration set up a pandemic response team that the Trump administration eliminated in 2018. At the same time, Trump also cut funding for the CDC, forcing the CDC to cancel it's efforts to help countries prevent infectious disease threats from becoming epidemics in 39 of 49 countries. Including China. Now do you understand?
10
Rick Winchester
Viral Diagnostic Test kits and antiviral medication do have expiration dates. PPE usually does not.
4
Am I missing something? What exactly are the symptoms of the virus? The only precautions I have heard are washing your hands, staying away from those who have tested positive for it and testing for it myself. Does this mean everytime I or someone in my family with the flu have to run to the doctor ae a precaution? Am I alone and missing the messaging of the medical experts in pandemic viruses? I certainly don't take seriously the warnings or lack thereof of Mike Pence.
14
@HMP It runs the gamut from nothing, to mild cold, to mild flu to bad flu, to I'm dying. It's impossible to contain because there are people who were infected who never developed any symptoms at all.
19
@Jonny Walker ....if some people are infected but never develop any symptoms, how do they are anyone find out they're infected?
3
@HMP
Answers to your questions:
"Who should be tested? Here are the CDC’s new criteria:
"Fever or symptoms of lower respiratory illness, such as cough or shortness of breath
AND
Close contact with a confirmed coronavirus patient.
Fever or symptoms of lower respiratory illness, such as cough or shortness of breath, requiring hospitalization
AND
A history of travel from China, Iran, Italy, Japan or South Korea.
Fever or symptoms of lower respiratory illness, such as cough or shortness of breath, requiring hospitalization, when there’s no alternative explanatory diagnosis, like flu
AND
No source of exposure has been identified."
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/02/27/coronavirus-want-a-test-to-see-if-you-have-it-youll-have-to-wait/
3
Doesn't it seem weird that the US with the size and affluent population that travels widely does not have more cases of Coronavirus popping up? I am convinced we don't have cases because we are not testing for them. Without confirmation, the people in our population with Coronavirus are undetected until severe cases show up in hospitals as recently happened in California.
219
My experience and observation is that Americans travel a lot internally, but not internationally ( incidentally, Conde Nast did a report on this, rating developed countries in frequency of international travel with the US placing low). I suppose that means that once the country is breached, though, a virus could move pretty quickly.
18
I agree. Either we’ve been very lucky, haven’t being testing for the virus (lack of test kits) or the information is being withheld (think Mike Pence).
11
@jeansch
Or maybe — and this is far more likely — we don’t “have more cases” simply because we don’t....
4
A reminder about one of the biggest reasons America gives foreign assistance: TO PROTECT AMERICAN CITIZENS AND AMERICAN SECURITY.
We are, unfortunately, seeing an example of this play out right now. In 2018, Trump cut funding to the CDC's program for global response to epidemics by 80%, forcing the CDC to shut down programs in 39 of the 49 countries where they had operated. Among the countries where the program was shut down: China.
Some people ask why the USA spends so much money helping foreigners fight diseases when we have serious health care issues at home. The reason for the CDC global programs that Trump gutted is simple: the best way to prevent a pandemic from ravaging the USA is to contain and treat a disease in the country (or countries) where it began BEFORE it can jump to the USA.
The aggressive US response to Ebola in Africa was a great example of how American assistance to foreign countries helps keep Americans at home safe. The gutting of the CDC's budget and the firing of the National Security team responsible for coordinating a response to emerging diseases is an example of how Trump's mindless budget cuts and anti-professional bias are putting Americans in danger.
It is also true that American assistance improves the lives of millions of poor people around the globe, which is a very good thing, but we should never lose sight of the fact that the #1 beneficiary of American assistance abroad are Americans living in the USA.
371
@Ken
It’s pretty hard to help China, isn’t it, given the nature of the CPC rule?
2
@Marcus Aurelius - Actually, it is not hard at all for people and countries that have a track record of cooperation in a particular field. China has, for example, worked closely with the USA on phytosanitary protection (keeping bugs out) because it helps both countries. That same is true in many other fields. It is a common mistake to think that because a government is repressive and often works against US interests that there are no areas where our interests overlap. Before Trump, I worked on coordinating carbon reduction and energy security plans with China. For multiple years in a row, China added more renewable (wind, solar) power than the rest of the world combined. Yes, their carbon output is rising, but it remains well less than 1/4 of the US level on a per capita basis and would have risen much, much more without the investments. Unlike the USA, China remains committed to reducing its carbon footprint. That doesn't mean that Xi is not a brutal dictator, but sometimes we can find areas for mutually beneficial cooperation even with the worst governments.
23
Even Hong Kong is quarantining people coming from Italy. So why are we just focused on China? Travelers from Italy have already introduced coronavirus to several other countries around the world.
56
Are Chinese people white? There’s your answer.
20
Isn’t it strange that the US has not reported any new cases since the one in California Wednesday night? Is the testing that backed up? Are reports being held back? Would love to think positively, but...
168
Not really. the U.S. test kits take 2-3 days, though I've sometimes noticed them taking longer (maybe they were double-checking). By comparison, South Korea uses a 6-hour turnaround test kit they developed themselves, called realtime RCP, which is why they are able to test thousands of people a day. They can literally be tested in the morning and get results in the afternoon. It makes me wonder whether the fast test kit is less accurate (it is single-step, rather than 2-step), but in early diagnosis/containment situations where time is of the essence, it seems like a worthwhile tradeoff. Anyway. Long story short: we don't have many test kits, not many places where we can do the tests, and they take a long time.
11
@Stacey You have to test people to have confirmed cases and the testing capabilities are insufficient, guidelines for testing, ridiculous, and the test that was developed did not work. I suspect the infections in the US are in the 1000s. You think it made it to Italy from China before it made it to the US? I think not. It's just not that serious an illness for most.
4
@Stacey Testing is not backed up. Testing is not happening at all. The #60 case in california was almost certainly not the first community transmission, it was merely the first that was tested at the insistence of doctors against CDC criteria.
My own city, New York, has 8.7 million people and is literally an international crossroads. 7 people total have been tested. 7. Let that sink in. It is a disgrace. There are patients right now, in hospitals, on respirators and with no diagnosis that the CDC has been refusing to test until yesterday, simply because they had no direct trace to China. Even now, the criteria are still too strict.
29
Mr Trump says that there will be a miracle and that the virus will be over by April, so I’m not worried at all...
41
@AC hahahahahaha I appreciate your sense of humor in the midst of all of this!! Keep the jokes coming!
20
@AC
Of course the virus will be over in April! (Maybe a liitle later...)
- estimated rate of infection = 65% of the world population
- 20% severe/critical cases = 1,04 billion people
- 2% Lethality = 160 million dead victims
There you have Trumps miracle, you're welcome!
The featured photo is real and understandable that most Japanese people are wearing face masks especially under the circumstance to protect themselves and as a coutesy to the others.
You must also know it is not unusual that Japanese people wear face masks in the public place.
Board Japanese airliens, you see many Japanese wearing face masks. Watch figure skating braodcast from Japan, the sport is very popular, you notice many spectators are wering masks.
Though the featured photo is real and scary for the readers, you also should know their habit as well.
I believe you've seen Japanese or oriental travellers wearing face masks in the city or tourist destinations.
In the spring time, over 25 million Japanese people are allergic to ceder and cypress pollen called kafunsho(hey fever). They wear masks when pollen levels are high.
25
If it was actually true that wearing face masks is totally ineffective protection agains corona virus, then virtually all medical folks will become infected about two weeks after the outbreak begins
13
Masks are not ineffective if worn properly, removed properly and the correct ones are used. I suspect we were told they are worthless in order to discourage Americans from buying as many as possible as the authorities want to reserve them for medical use, first responders etc. I understand this but would prefer they’d told the truth.
37
@Budley First responders use a specific expensive mask and have to be trained in its use and practice with masks that are then discarded. You can't move the mask at all during interaction with infected people. The public aren't going to be able to replicate that process.
8
Most people do not know how to wear lab gear. That is the only reason.
2
I am just surprised Donald didn't put Jared Kushner in charge.
38
When President Trump himself goes into quarantine, he'll put Jared in charge. I suspect the president is already sequestering himself, by the way, and we won't see him for 14 days, except via video.
4
@Mary O'Connell:
Jared's busy with condo tower and casino hotel contract negotiations with the Palestinians and wall reimbursement negotiations with the Mexicans.
Oh, and he's working on The Donald's re-election campaign and also trying hard to keep Jeff Sessions from winning Alabama's Republican Senate primary next week ("Tommy is Trump Tough! Go, Tommy, Go!").
What, you didn't get the memo?
2
@Mary O'Connell
Kushner has a bad cough.
1
Soon the United States will be in a worse condition than China. China acted swiftly to quarantine a large area of its country where the virus first appeared, this saved outbreaks in the rest of the country. The United States is allowing planes full of people returning from areas of the world infected with Coronavirus, to land everywhere, In every State in every city. Where China has limited the virus to a certain area we will soon have it everywhere.
63
@Lonnie
Fake news. Passengers from infected regions are funneled to specific airports
1
@clarity007. are you so sure about that? what about passengers originating on their journey from Italy which has numerous infections. I don't know if they are being checked upon arrival in the US and I haven't seen that these passengers are limited to the specific airports. Could not find out.
3
@clarity007
Just read that passengers arriving from Italy at JFK were not being screened or asked any questions.
And consider that new cases from something like 14 countries have been traced to Italy.
Still so confident of your claim above?
here's the link https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/02/27/coronavirus-travel-advisories/
1
I really think it up to the American people themselves to save us from leaders who simply don't know what to do
We need pilots and flight attendants to go on strike and say they will no longer fly to countries with Coronavirus epidemics...which means no return trip full of people with the virus..this will stop the spread of the virus in america
We need our big brave captains of industry to forget about nothing but squeezing every dime out of their employees and customers and instead implement a plan of action, which includes granting paid leave to anybody who is sick and has a cold or cough. This will keep sick people off buses, trains, during rush hour, and out of the work place. Because believe me if i walk into any store and a employee is coughing i am turning around and walking out, as everyone should
we may have to implement a no coughing rule that people with a cough are not allowed to enter stores, arrangements can be made for stores to bring you what they need, many stores have this option already, there is no need for you to go out and about with your cough.
Nobody is doing anything and every minute of the day more people are flying into this country with corona virus, going to work sick, getting on trains sick. They are spreading it through every corner of our country, soon we will be worse off than China.
If the government will not act than the people must act for them. This is the country of the people, for the people by the people ...isn't it?
27
@Lonnie
25,000 - 60,000 Americans die every year from the flu? Why no panic? Why no questions as to spend?
2
Airlines, cruise lines, and hotels need to waive any cancellation fees.
5
Personal health is maintained using a large measure of common sense along with occasional preventive and therapeutic interventions by persons trained and licensed for the task. Public Health involves the prevention of disease outbreaks and intervention when needed in groups of people. The coordination of Epidemiologic, statistical and infectious disease information in a time like this may be compared to that found in the confines of an operating room. Lack of coordination minimizes success.
When someone like Trump and his political appointees shamelessly match baseless opinions with professionals like Fauci, that's idiotic. Irresponsible at best. Like many other areas which require training and on the job experience, there is a little room for an educated guess..... "Educated".
19
The virus is a serious problem, but the media is overhyping it. Do we really need "live updates" with every single case documented?
14
I can't get over the difference between U.C. Davis Medical Center and Nigeria's Yaba Mainland Hospital, I know 1st world vs 3rd world, but Wow.
16
What is not being said...The WHO has proven to be a paper (highly political) tiger. They were late in raising the flag on China, already back in December 2019, when it should have been clear to them that China was covering up a bad situation, acting in the most unprofessional manner, with a high disregard towards its own population. They missed the severity of the situation in Japan with the Diamond Princess, as it pretty soon became clear that Japan’s protocols and procedures to deal with such a pandemic were not up to par, the result of which is having a high number of “spreaders” now running around all over the world. And finally they underestimated the lack of preparation of Italy as it would have been highly unpopular to single out the underlying structural and political issues in that country leading to a sub-par sanitary situation. Now the WHO is polishing its image by denouncing the obvious and crying wolf at every turn of the road. Great!
6
"Switzerland banned all gatherings of more than 1,000 people."
I'd be curious to know how the Swiss landed on 1000 people as the number.
20
@Mary Elizabeth Lease It doesn't get transmitted if there are 999 people.
1
Overseas right now.
The Swiss government said it used the number 1000 but it could also have been 900 or 2000. They also said depending on how it develops they‘ll adapt the number. Right now it it 1000 for the next two weeks. The reason they did this is because they saw how Italy missed the beginning of the whole thing, closing down entire towns now... If you try to prevent the spread as much as possible hopefully the condition does not go out of hand.. Less people less contamination....
What impressed me the most is that the government said they do this to care for the citizens of Switzerland.. uha..... Trump.....
2
With 1000 people you can still trace it back to who maybe got infected. More is not really possible. If you can trace it you can quarantine those people and keep the spread in bay.
1
Alex Azar...only the best people.
11
Somehow, per the president, things will get better when warm humid air returns in the summer.
Someone better tell the middle East and Africa this. They should be good to go now in February.
9
@D
If this viral outbreak follows a similar path as the common flu there will be a diminution in the U.S. Suggest you write a very large check to the WHO to help rather then bemoaning our good fortune.
Why are our Scientists and Public Health Officials being told not to talk to the Public until cleared by Pence. We all remember how well Pence handled the HIV crisis in Indiana. It was awful.
114
But Pence is off fundraising for the GOP today.
No time for Corona virus work or status of woeful
Shortage of Test Kits
14
@Philip W
This is to make sure you hear the best advice. Good idea on any issue of this magnitude. You can always listen to the media pundits if you wish to be confused
@Philip W
Pence should not even be in on decisions related to health care. He doesn't believe in science and knows nothing. He should just go back to what he's good at-- gazing worshipfully at Trump with a dreamy smile on his face.
We need knowledgeable professionals, not religious fanatics at the top.
13
I keep hearing that I shouldn’t worry because 80 percent of cases are mild. Well, 83.3 percent of cases of Russian Roulette are mild too...
94
Please provide calm, sane advice from competent public health officials. Repeatedly. With every article on this. Updating as needed. Do not feed panic.
38
While an equal opportunity virus is wreaking havoc, the Trump administration has gone to its default setting - muddy the waters and keep people in the dark. The con man and authoritarian tool kit.
Trump controlling the levers of government. Pence controlling the flow of information.
What could go wrong?
As we've seen in China, lying and hiding the truth makes things worse. It always does.
48
@pi
Not a Trump fan but honestly not seen "lies" about the situation. Relative opinions yes but nothing that misleads. Take your pick horrendous pandemic, little impact in U.S. or something in between. We are not too concerned with 25,000-60,000 deaths from the flu annually in the U.S. why panic at 0 for this virus?
@clarity007
Trump said today that 'nobody in America is very sick and every one is getting better.' This despite a critically ill woman in California whose case is troubling because they have not been able to trace the path of transmission.
Trump's Mick Mulvaney asserted that the administration has been on top of this from the start but the media ignored it because since they want Trump out they were only interested in reporting on impeachment. Mulvaney further asserted that the media is only reporting it now because they want to make Trump look bad.
And that is just a sampling from today.
5
@clarity007
post script.
This virus has a significantly higher mortality rate than the regular flu (and significantly lower than SARS) but ... it is much more easily transmitted and the way it is transmitted is not yet understood.
4
if true, this...
"A whistle-blower complaint in the United States outlined how federal health care workers had interacted with quarantined Americans without proper training or safety equipment."
...goes will beyond incompetence and deep into the territory of criminality.
48
@Mary Elizabeth Lease
Is there harm?
1
@clarity007
does a bear defeated in the woods?
what is needed is a slick madison avenue ad campaign for Covad-19 test kits.
Our pharmaceutical industry is great at ad campaigns and addictive sedatives but when it comes to life saving compounds to treat SARS and MERS [first cousins of Covad-19], the economics just weren't there.
Capitalism.
14
“Much of the global community is not yet ready, in mindset and materially, to implement the measures that have been employed to contain COVID-19 in China. These are the only measures that are currently proven to interrupt or minimize transmission chains in humans.”
12
This when the fact that our education system has failed to successfully teach citizens anything about statistics or probability rears it's ugly head.
The fact is that almost all the deaths from the coronavirus have been among elderly people whose immune systems have already been compromised by other health issues.
Pretty much everyone else is recovering without too much difficulty. China has already released thousands of recovered patients. There has yet to be a single death in the US.
Would love to see those facts as headlines, rather than continuous "new case discovered" headlines.
The media is doing a horrible job covering this and is just feeding the panic.
15
@Matt I think those facts have been present in just about every NYT article I have read on the subject. They would not all fit in a headline.
I don't think dismissing the deaths of individuals over 65 is all that humane, even if they have underlying conditions.
Finally, there are at least a few documented cases of younger medical health workers dying from the virus. Presumably this has something to do with exposure from multiple other sources. If that is the case, quarantine may be important for all of us, not just the highest risk pool.
29
But China imposed stringent measures to stop contagion, and built hospitals in two weeks. However terrible communism may be, its privileging the interest of society over the individual had its advantage here. The danger isn't in how deadly but how widespread the virus is. People will need ventilators. If there are more people who need ventilators than ventilators, people will die. At this point protecting the elderly and those with a compromised immune system seems our best bet to me, as it seems the virus has silently been spreading for a while in Europe, and probably the US.
11
Trumps exact quotes... incomprehensible blathering and absurd lies...are the cause of all the panic setting in.
But Nevermind that!
As Mulvaney proclaims, we should not believe these quoted statements by Trump...we should instead be focusing on Trumps never before reported “loving relationship” with his son, Barron.
2
America, the land of the for-profit, barely-just-in-time, hardly-enough medical system, ready for Coronavirus pandemic? Absurd. How many ventilators in any given city? Here in San Francisco I would surprised if there are more than 100, if not far fewer. God help people in rural areas with no hospitals. The allegedly omnipotent CDC can't even put out a proper test kit after two months heads up, and they've only tested 445 people in the whole USA of 330 million! There's no plan. What are workers supposed to do if quarantined, and no pay check? Not pay the bills or mortgage? What are working parents supposed to do when schools are closed? Stay home and lose their pay or job? Not pay the bills? Will Wall Street/Washington forgive the debts, keep paying quarantined employees? Obviously not. The CDC solemnly advises everyone on food stamps and in poverty to stock 2 weeks of food, when they can barely eat enough as it is. The one thing that is for sure working people will bear the brunt and pay with their lives for the preventable Coronavirus catastrophe caused by Wall Street and their incompetent government, and bear all the economic hardship too.
54
@AR
Heavens. We lose 25,000-60,000 every year from the flu in the U.S. Where are the ventilators for them? Is CA that callus?
1
@AR I live in one of those rural areas with a critical shortage of physicians and no trauma hospital for more than 30 miles. They put you on a helicopter here if you need trauma care, a ride which costs about 25,000 dollars. We see an influx of tens of thousands of tourists every summer, and a local business owner just stated in the media that instead of flying somewhere for vacation, "Why not just come and breath the fresh air of the ocean and boost your immune system?" Good god!!! Much of the permanent population here is retired. I can't imagine what horror could happen if this virus is introduced into our community, or any other coastal community in our situation.
1
"Companies like Microsoft have warned that this will affect their sales..."
yup.
the sick and dying tend not be in the market for the latest consumer trinkets.
what is needed is a slick madison avenue ad campaign for Covad-19 test kits...our pharmaceutical industry is great at ad campaigns and addictive sedatives but when it comes to life saving compounds to treat SARS and MERS [first cousins of Covad-19], the economics just aren't there.
4
Perhaps Microsoft can shift gears and manufacture Covid-19 Testing Kits so desperately needed.
THey would make a fortune!
5
Scientists should not let themselves be censored by trump/pence. We need to hear from the experts. Can our legislators protect them? Would a united front - let us speak or we will all quit - work? We need to hear from them. Even if it is anonymous or second hand.....What insane times, dark times.
28
Every scientist and lab technician should grab for his moment of fame, even if it turns out that they were wrong. How else will they get noticed? People also have a right to become frightened by anything they choose to believe. Why would anyone want the information about the Coronavirus to be checked and verified before it is published? If someone claims that the virus actually arrived in China on a meteorite from outer space, that should be considered to be fact.
4
@Rock Winchester:
Checked and verified by Mike Pence??
1
The time has come to stop building the "Wall" and put the money and resources where they are needed most.
18
@AM
Yup. Open the borders. should work. NOT!!!!
3
@clarity007 For god sake, not building the Wall is not the same as open borders. We do not have open borders. Try to keep up.
“The key to containing this virus is to break the chain of transmission,” he said.
and we still don't know what the chain of transmission is.
9
We can’t break the chain without knowing WHO is infected.
We can’t know WHO is infected without a Test Kit.
We can’t get Test Kits.
VP Pence needs to focus Only on TEST KITS!
Stop your fundraising for you GOP, Mr Pence.
Focus on TEST KITS!
26
Social distancing measures help break the chain.
1
@Pigsy
as with every other aspect of this that is only a guess.
Chances of Trump cancelling his South Carolina rally Saturday are better than 50/50.
If he cancels, he will be seen as scared.
If he does the rally in a face mask, he will be seen as scared.
He's in his own box now.
27
@Blue in Green
I'm no trump fan but your post is pure speculation not backed up by any fact. A cursory google search showed nothing about him cancelling or wearing a face mask. In the time of panic/hysteria, no need to fan the flames with untruth. Leave that to the president and his cronies.
3
Actually speculation hasn’t been outlawed yet, doesn’t qualify as an untruth - it’s speculation.
3
There is a need to pay particular attention to what happens in Nigeria. The belief that warmer weather will either stop this virus or cause it to hibernate can be determined.
229
@Judith Why wait for Nigeria?? Singapore isn't exactly Antartica.
29
I wonder if we are already seeing the effects of warm weather on the virus in SE Asia- numbers there have stayed relatively low compared to countries in more northern climates. Is it just a lack of reporting, or is it that the virus actually isn’t spreading there?
5
@Mtkailas but Singapore has a much more capable government.
8
NYC: we need you to prepare and inform us NOW. From the examples of other countries: we need know exactly what to do if we start suspecting symptoms, how long to self-isolate and until what symptoms appear, what number to call (dedicated numbers), where to go (dedicated centers for testing and care), and how to get there (walk or take own car but avoid public transport).
67
Good points. We should not be waiting around till panic sets in to announce hotline numbers, names of hospitals that have appropriate isolation facilities, and other relevant advice. If the resources are already being put in place in NYC, let the public know now and give us the contact information we may (or may not) need.
7
@JC
YOU need to prepare and inform YOURSELF six weeks ago.
4
Update--there appears to be now a New York State Coronavirus hotline: https://health.ny.gov/diseases/communicable/coronavirus/. Not seeing one for NYC yet.
1
South Korea is the only country that's aggressively testing people suspected of being exposed to the virus and publishing the testing results openly. By doing so, it's generating the most useful data on this illness. At this point, the rate of death is less than 1 percent (13 out of 2337--0.56%). Obviously, we need to know more but placing the lethality of the virus in context could tamp down the panic that seems to be getting out of control. The rate of transmission and lethality seems to be tracking very close to the common flu. Thankfully, ordinary precautions against common flu are the best practices for avoiding COVID-19. Stay calm and wash your hands.
33
Exactly. the more you know, the more rational the response can be.
2
@UC Grad
Would be nice if the lower mortality rate held up. However, in the early stages of an outbreak, it’s not valid to divide today’s mortality by today’s positive test results. The mortality represents people who have been ill for weeks already. The positive result include newly ill people, whose outcome is still unknown. To know for sure, you must track a cohort through the whole course of the disease from positive test through recovery or death. Even that will vary depending on whether the medical system at the location of the outbreak can keep up. A city whose hospital beds and ventilators are all used up will have a higher mortality rate than one with adequate services. Hence, slowing the spread of the disease to not flood medical facilities is key. And not falling into a false sense of complacency by thinking “just the flu” goes a long way to help motivate people to take prudent safety measures, slow the spread, and not overwhelm hospitals.
16
@UC Graduate Completely agree. People are acting like it's the Black Plague. While I understand the need for vigilance the reality is that a very small percentage of people will actually end up contracting this virus and of those only a fraction will develop complications that could result in death...yet if you listen to the media it's more like "We are ALL going to get this and most of you will die!". Irresponsible fear mongering.
4
It is futile to waste time and effort on the tracing of individuals possibly infected by Covid-19. The pandemic is inevitable. Or for how long does the US Navy want to isolate its ships out at sea? For 18 months when there may be a vaccine? The focus must shift to all possible preparation for treatment now.
5
Having failed to prepare for the early diagnostics and containment, what makes you think we can better prepare for the community spread phase? Something is quite wrong.
20
Yep: perfect timing: the seasonal, autumn-to-winter shift to the southern hemisphere brings the coronavirus with it. Should see coronavirus cases now populate the southern hemisphere (South America, Australia, Africa etc.), while northern hemisphere cases (depending on the the adequacy of testing apparatuses) begin to level-off with more sunshine, moisture and higher temperatures. All latitudinal and highly related to climate and transmission rates,
so watch the shift.
5
Why are we not taking defensive measures against this virus BEFORE cases are confirmed? Schools in NY should be closed, public transportation should be minimized, and whatever other measures the city is planning to enact AFTER we have widespread cases, should be put in place ASAP.
It's just common sense: If in 2 weeks time we have hundreds of confirmed infections, that means that right now the virus is spreading and infections are taking place as we speak and do nothing. Why are we giving the virus a chance to infect people? Why not enact this measure before panic sets in, before people start getting sick and, probably, dying?
Reacting instead of preventing is a dangerous gamble.
92
You are right, Julian. We should already be taking precautions in NYC. We are still waiting for the CDC to announce the test results of the NYC patient who recently came in from Italy with Covid-19 symptoms. I'm guessing the CDC may embargo the results of this test if it is positive so as not to alarm people. NYC has to be prepared to take action soon, maybe limiting large gatherings if nothing else. Since testing is minimal, this may have to be done before official positive test results are made public.
14
@Freedean I'm actually confident the CDC will tell us if it's in fact COD19 or not. Lying and the scandal that would ensue when they are caught will force them to be truthful.
And if it is COD19, that person has spread it without even knowing, for days. And the people he spread it to are spreading it as well. It's happening right now. Let's act right now.
The only argument against this approach is if there's a significant chance than in 2 weeks time we sill won't have widespread cases in the city. I personally believe that chances of that are null, but what do I know? Experts in the field should be asked, and if they say yes, in 2 weeks time we'll definitely have confirmed cases in the city, then it's a no-brainer: let's jump into action today to prevent further infections.
11
Definitely. We need know exactly what to do if we start suspecting symptoms, how long to self-isolate and until what symptoms, what number to call (dedicated numbers), where to go (dedicated centers), and how to get there (walk or take own car but avoid public transport).
4
This virus is not more lethal that the flu. There are probably many asymptomatic carriers of the virus as well as mild cases which aren’t raised to the attention of doctors. If we count those cases, the lethality rate is low.
Additionally, if we ran the numbers, i would guess that smokers have a higher chance of developing pneumonia...and in many countries, it is the older male population that holds on to this habit. Unlike the US where smoking is not as prevalent.
The media needs to stop stoking fear about this virus and report the facts in their proper context. Otherwise they bear responsibility for the economic fall out.
21
@Vstrwbery
Quote: "This virus is not more lethal that the flu."
That's not what public health officials, including from the CDC, are saying. They are saying -- and have been, repeatedly -- that SO FAR, with the data we have so far, this novel coronavirus is 20 times more deadly than the flu.
Common influenza strains have a 0.1% fatality rate. Covid-19, again based on data we have so far, has a 2% fatality rate. Zero-point-one percent versus two percent. That's 20 times more fatal.
The data may turn out to be better, which, if so, all the better. But for now it's simply false to state that this is no more dangerous than flu. I realize that's what our Epidemiologist-in-Chief is pushing, but he knows nothing about public health.
176
@Lisa Simeone
That data doesn’t count people who have the virus and don’t make it to the doctor. Namely asymptomatic people and mild cases. So while your math is right, the data is incomplete and therefore unreliable.
My statement is an opinion, like all the commentary on the virus, because the reality is that we just don’t know. Saying that the virus is more fatal than the flu is also simply false in the sense that it’s not a proven fact yet. it’s up to the media to present the facts in context and not throw gasoline on a fire.
As an aside, I’m a physician.
8
@Vstrwbery
Indeed. As I said, I'm just going by what public health officials are saying now based on the data they have so far; and if it turns out the numbers are better, then that's obviously great for all of us.
6
Where the heck is Congress? The Coronavirus is a serious medical issue that needs to be dealt with by science. Mike Pence’s disdain for science and his embarrassing idolization of a Trump make him a poor choice to be point person for dealing with this issue.
I hope we’re not seeing a repeat of the hurricane Maria debacle except on a much grander scale.
57
@Javaforce : Sure we are!! Trump has already decimated the CDC and now we have Mike "smoking doesn't cause cancer" Pence in charge. Can't wait to wake up from this nightmare!!
5
@Javaforce
We lose 25,000-60,000 from the flu annually in the U.S. Where the heck has congress been?
1
It's summer in the southern hemisphere.
According to Twump, balmy spring breezes are all thats needed ( along with prayer...)
Maybe he can formulate some kind of coherent sentence to explain that?
9
@Ignatz It is my understanding that in warmer weather the molecules in droplets from the virus become heavier there by dropping to the ground as opposed to floating in the air.
@Ignatz
As someone in Singapore said, they have perpetual summer and have had many cases there.
8
FYI — The U.S needs to respond TO this threat IMMEDIATELY. If we expect to fare as well as China we have to be willing to implement the same policies! Are we prepared to do that? It’s necessary. Technocratic niceties will NOT suffice!
5
@Alex we aren't China. One of the implications of being an open society.
I haven't read yet of these health department recommendations in this venue:
When you wash your hands at work or in a public place, wash the faucet handles, rinse them. Use the paper towel to open the door. Have trash cans by the door.
I've been following these for years and my guess is that I've had about half the colds as before.
15
@Slipping Glimpser
Do you wash the sink as well?
1
With Covid-19 beginning to affect all aspects of our daily lives, Donald Trump's gross incompetence will hopefully become clear for even his supporters to see. Guess his mother forgot to tell him the stories of the little boy who cried wolf and Pinocchio.
13
@M145 Oh please! Blaming Trump for the response to the coronavirus is absurd. Information from China was slow in coming, the virus is new and complex - people who are asymptotic are able
To spread the virus and not get it themselves, some people have been reinfected while others are not. Trying to find a vaccine is incredibly complicated and may take a year or more to develop. Please have a little faith and don’t play into the hysteria!
4
@I Hear Ya - C'mon -- you seriously think Donald Trump contradicting the experts present at his press conference, congratulating himself the following day on holding a very good press conference, and appointing limp Mike Pence as czar helps the situation? I fully agree that people seem a little hysterical but our president is certainly not helping the public react calmly and rationally -- nor is he likely to.
12
The virus can be transmitted by people who are asymptomatic who may never develop symptoms. Game over. Time to accept it as a new flu. Stay home if you get sick and see a doctor if you have high fever or respiratory issues right away. For over 80% it's no more than a cold. I believe the entire city of Milan is infected as every article with a new case in Europe starts with "the man, who recently returned from Milan,. . . ." and they weren't all at the same place in Milan. Yet, the death rate remains virtually unchanged in Italy. Many believe, when all is said and done, there are so many cases with extremely mild symptoms that the rate of fatality may be 20 times less than they think. The first woman who recovered in Italy said her only symptom was a headache for 3 days. I just spoke to a work colleague in NYC who complained of a sore throat and a headache and she was coughing and she has no plans to see a doctor. We need to relax and get on with our lives. This is not going to be contained, but it will peter out in the summer.
19
Jonny, I just watched my 85 yo father die from pneumonia. He was at Walter Reed and the medical team did everything to save him. I will not forget him gasping and saying “I can’t breathe.”
62
@KPB He was in a very high risk group and I am very sorry for your loss. But he might have died from a seasonal flu as well based on his age. I watched my 46-year old sister in law die from septic shock caused buy chemotherapy treatments for breast cancer. Those events are traumatizing but you have to try to clinically view the facts of this illness. For most it is nothing. And, as with any seasonal virus, the elderly and those with underlying health issues need to be extremely careful.
11
@Jonny Walker (rough numbers based on what I read yesterday...) True, roughly 80% of people who contract it will experience mild symptoms, but they will still be carriers. If they behave as if it is nothing, they'll be responsible for spreading it to the other 15% who will experience severe symptoms, and the 5% who will die. Do we want 100 carriers? 1000? A million?
14
The photo of the heads of China and Malaysia shaking hands looks like the final scene of the movie "Contagion."
No one should be shaking hands anywhere with anyone now.
26
@Lynn in DC That's the photo of the leader of China and Mongolia (not Malaysia) shaking hands. Otherwise, I agree with you comments.
3
You simply cannot be a developed country without universal healthcare.
218
@JC : Really? Have you thought about the costs, about the tax rate that will be required to make this happen? It's a differents story providing universal healthcare in a country with a relatively small population than in one with over 30 million people. Perhaps it would be wiser to build on what exists and add a program for those unable to afford coverage.
4
@JC
If that is accurate, the USA will not be considered "developed" for decades to come. Until that time, it will have to make do as an "emerging" nation".
9
@Judith We are about ready to witness the true cost of not having universal healthcare for people in the US as well as the true cost of not having paid sick leave for all workers. People will go to work sick and spread the disease or stay home, lose their jobs, and go bankrupt. The poor and under insured will go without diagnosis and treatment. Heck, the insured still find healthcare too expensive and might avoid it as well. When they do go, bills will go unpaid and medical facilities will suffer financial collapse. I hope I'm wrong but the writing is on the wall. Since when did human life become about money anyway. Who cares about the stock market.
21
Trump is going to resign and flee the country unless he's immediately taken into custody.
Our only hope to avoid the deaths of MILLIONS of Americans is to take draconian measures to contain the coronavirus.
We must be aggressive, preemptive, and proactive.
I don't see it happening yet.
Time is short.
10
@S Butler I agree with should be preemptive and proactive. The chances of NOT having widespread cases in this country in 2 weeks time are very slim. That means infections are happening now, so we should act now.
That said, I very much doubt there will be millions of deaths. This is NOT the Contagion movie.
In reality, there's only been 2k deaths in China out of 80K cases. That's a 2.5% mortality rate. Even if it gets to 1M cases in that country (a big if), it will still mean 25K deaths, which is less than the number of people who die of the regular flu in the US on a good year.
The 67 million possible scenario that has been circulating in the media, is based on a fictitious scenario where scientist set their imaginary virus to be more deadly that MERs, which had a death rate of 34%. That is simply not the case with COD-19, so millions might get infected, but only a few thousands will die. Tragic and comforting at the same time!
3
Meanwhile House Democrats still cannot agree about whose special interests should be included in any legislation that they finally propose. I’m sure that each has a secret safe place to move themselves and their family to if conditions in the US become bad.
5
@Rock Winchester Meanwhile, our "President" still cannot agree with the CDC about how many cases we have here in the US.
6
Italy took their media to task for whipping up panic with their reporting. Italian media has responded by dialing down the hysterics in the headlines.
I see the same thing here in the US. The media causes half of the hysteria I am seeing in the comments.
11
I can see these disasters coming.
A ICE raid, arrests, an infected detention facility, a population who will have nothing to do with the government.
Let it get into any prison. Blue flu among guards.
2
What Trump should have said at his press conference:
Our country now faces a grave crises. And now is the time to forget politics and come together as one united people, I am prepared to do what it takes to bring our great country safely through this. There are no republicans, no democrats now. The corona Virus doesn't pick favorites, rich or poor, black or white, christian or muslim it all the same to a virus. It's the ultimate lesson that there is so much more that unites us than divides us. I pledge to spend every hour here in the white house, working on this problem, a committee of the best scientists and medical professionals is being assembled. We will get through this just as the United States has always gotten through the bad times, as we got through world war 2, 9/11 and so many others, with courage and a united spirit. Everything that can be done will be done, and i pledge to do whatever i can to end this crises swiftly, you have my vow. I will have daily reports on the spread of the virus. And i ask my colleagues on the other side of the aisle to end all animosity, and come together in this time of crises, I have spoken to speaker Pelosi and have invited her to sit on the committe assembled to stop the spread of Corona virus, let us all work together now.
God bless you and god bless the United States of America"
But of course, that is not what he said, he still thinks its all about re-election rather than fighting the Corona Virus, and that's the problem.
96
@Lonnie
What he did say:
"We have 15 people infected but not too bad, but there are only 9 that are serious but they are from Japan we felt we had to bring over, we didn't really have to, but they are citizens and Congress....Congress gave us too much money, but we will take it, not as much for the Wall...and the 15 patients are doing great...China, China is doing a great job just like India, but everything is ok, many people say we couldn't get it done, but the Coronavirus is in good shape, I mean, the 15 people are in good shape, because we are great"
2
@Lonnie - What Trump should have said years ago..... "I resign"
7
I see the plan now. Let's not test people, keeping our numbers nice and low. Sure, some people will die from "pneumonia", but that will be under the radar and a few years later, nobody will remember. We don't have the diagnostic or care capability anyway....is this really what the once leader of the free world, United States of America, has come to? It makes me so sad.
98
@JC
But it will be so much less expensive.
4
It's too late for testing at scale to matter. The virus is out in the community; we are not going to be able to trace everyone anymore. And even if we could, we are either unwilling or unable to implement effective quarantines. At some point it's going to be counter productive, prompting people who are not life-threateningly ill to go out and about to their doctors, quick cares, and ERs, infecting everyone else, and also jamming up the healthcare system.
People need to just start acting as if it's already around in their community. Basic precautions are not especially onerous.
Test people who had consistent symptoms who died or who are very ill admitted to hospitals. Then we still can keep an eye on severity in a more manageable way and escalate the response (e.g., canceling school) accordingly. It's too late to do the epidemiological and containment work that is the reason for wide scale testing.
8
@Sarah You make some good points, but right now we are not testing those who die (if there is such a test) or testing those who are very ill and being admitted to hospitals. So we have no idea how widespread this is in the US and are no position to manage it while flying in the dark.
5
They usually set up dedicated protocols and dedicated centers for testing, to prevent exactly what you are describing.
Wouldn't it make sense at some point to urge the people in the at-risk group to reduce their interactions with the world? I know this has downsides, including depression, but it could also reduce the burden faced by healthcare facilities. Pensioners particularly should be in a position not to be surrounded with many people. While increasing isolation in facilities for the elderly would be straining, an epidemic in the same facilities would be catastrophic.
I for one told my elderly parents to avoid crowded places and go out only for food supplies (there's an ocean between us and I worry that no one would be there to take care of them).
17
@Marie
I totally agree with your comment. Many older people are retired and it is easier for them to implement social distancing. The rest of us need to go to work so that we can keep this stuff going.
1
@Lonnie Exactly! We’ll likely embrace real heroes. Not rich blowhards who organize personal pep rallies and are looking to blame others.
11
Did we not learn the lessons of the Diamond Princess? For the sake of the brave men and women serving in the U.S. Navy, please allow them to dock and quarantine on land, not at sea.
22
If you knew the the Spanish Flu was bearing down upon you & your loved ones, what would you do?
Do it. Now.
34
Oh boy. Yesterday the country count was 43; this morning, 53. And meanwhile, in Iran, reportedly only 388 cases and 34 deaths. That's a fatality rate of nearly 10%. So, either the virus that is infecting people in Iran is a mutated form with a much higher kill rate, or the Iranians are grossly under-reporting the actual number of cases that exist in the country, either deliberately (to try and prevent a countrywide panic?) or out of sheer ignorance and lack of personnel (not to mention lack of test kits). Oh brother. What we'll most likely never know: how did the virus arrive in Iran?
24
@Jan N
I'm betting no country is reporting the actual number infected for both reasons you described.
1) fear of panic
2) lack of test kits
Why has Russia which shares the longest border, 2600 miles, with China reported not one case?
19
@Jan N Chances are they are unaware of all the sick as for most, this is an extremely mild illness.
3
@JM
Re Russia:
Excellent question. Perhaps because the translation of "Pravda" is "truth".
BTW, South Korea apparently has hundreds of thousands of test kits: they have allegedly tested over 400,000 residents as of last evening. At least, that is what they have reported.
I continue my dismay that we do not have a grip on the number of contagions in this country.
If an American TODAY goes to the doctor with cold symptoms, even with a fever and respiratory problems, that person WILL NOT be tested for the coronavirus. Only people who meet very specific criteria are tested. That criteria includes contact with people in China, which as of 2 weeks ago, is not many people.
This means, that our on our streets, living normal lives are and spreading the virus are:
- asymptomatic people
- people who just think they have a cold
And anyone of them can spread it to others. And because we are not screening, nor testing sick people, the problem will go undetected until it is too late.
The level of irresponsibility being shown by the Trump is astounding. I may blame China for spreading this plague, but I BLAME TRUMP's ineptitude for making every American citizen play Russia roulette every time we go out into a public space.
More than that, we cannot gather accurate information if we don't understand the scope of the spread. Perhaps it's 2% but 2% of what? The known cases? What about the unknown?
....and I was starting to calm down about the risk until I read about the four deaths from the Diamond Princess. Say what you want about their ages, but those four people went on vacation healthy enough to enjoy it and now they are not alive.
71
@GWE
Quite a few comments on these pages want to blame Trump for something concerning the virus (or anything else in the world).
To quote from an NYT article about Italy which is nearby on this page:
"The uncertainty surrounding the virus has opened fertile ground for political sniping, as politicians engaged in power struggles to shift blame."
Happening in the USA too, I'd say.
3
@Garagesaler It's not that people want to blame Trump for anything other than incompetence. If you want to see how an epidemic should be handled look to what Obama did vis a vis Ebola in 2014 vs what Trump is doing today. Trump does not seem to have a handle on how to handle this crisis. His usual blaming of others doesn't work well now. His bullying is not effective in this situation even if it has been in almost all others. He is not showing very good leadership on what needs to be done.
13
I'm a liberal democrat who thinks Trump is incompetent and evil. And my comment is not about "make America great." I do believe, however, that our country needs to think about manufacturing some of our own "essentials," such as medical supplies and pharmaceuticals. We cannot be dependent upon China or any other country when it comes to our lives.
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@Valerie L.
It would also add to more safety for the world in general. One of the reason famines no longer plague the world is that we have a global food network, so when the crops fail in one area, another place which had a bumper harvest can step in to fill the gap. If essentials such as medical supplies and pharmaceuticals are made in multiple places through the globe and not just in one country, we're creating a similar safety net. A crisis in one place that effects manufacturing or distribution has fewer global repercussions in such a world.
It's never a good idea to place all your eggs in one basket.
2
“Switzerland banned all gatherings of more than 1,000 people.“
As if the virus would care avoid meetings with less people. Quite helpless Swiss in this regard.
14
But Europe has far better healthcare insurance than the US. So it will be enlightening to see how the countries deal with the virus. It will set an example of what the US can have with “Medicare for All”.
7
@Rock Winchester Switzerland is different from most European countries. Only versY serious diseases are covered by state insurance, and you may be put in a ward - at least that’s what the insurance papers said. You need private insurance, which can be very costly, particularly with pre-conditions. Still, very serious diseases are indeed covered for everyone - they invented the Red Cross after all, and medical bill surprises are not really a thing.
3
@marie
health insurance is mandatory for everybody living in seitzerland. but it is private. there is no such thing as a state insurance.
1
China- initial and possibly continued underreporting.
US - can't(bungled kits) or won't(Calif. pt) test.
China- Xi: we are going to beat this.
US- Trump: nothing to worry about, covid will respect American exceptionalism.
China- censoring whistleblowers and information.
US- trust that Mikey will make it clearer and more accurate than those eggheads ever could on their own.
Yes, I know, people are going to tell me that China is still orders of magnitude worse than the US. After all they lock up innocent Uighurs, while we only lock up criminal minorities, etc.
But, understand that I am not here to say that China is better or that we are just as bad. I am saying that I expect more from my country, the wealthiest in the world, with it's foundation of freedom, democracy, reason and human dignity. It should be like comparing apples and oranges but it doesn't feel that way.
26
@Pigsy
This will be Trump's downfall.
One ad displaying Trump's imbecilic comments about this virus should take care of it.
Trump actually blames the stock market drop on the bad democratic debate this week.
12
Don’t count on it. Trump supporters will rally behind him as always.
3
Meantime, Korea--leave no stone unturned, report everything you find. In detail. World--that's a lot, block Korea.
Wait for 'the help' at Mar-a-Lago to come down with the coronavirus; then Trump will take it seriously.
20
Now the Trump administration and republicans are blaming impeachment that’s why they’re fumbling their response to the virus. Yup! This is no longer a public health crisis folks, from here on out Trump will be making it all about blaming the democrats and his re-election.
13
@tiredofwaiting, I think the vast majority of Americans, even people who plan on voting for Trump, realize that the Democrats don't have a thing to do with a virus that arrived with travellers returning from China. And the Democrats aren't in charge of the government - the Republicans are.
7
Well, so far Trump has been blamed for not acting sooner with a lot of money. But if he had diverted any money from the defense budget to attack the virus, Democrats would have screamed. It would have affected jobs in their districts. Democrats did exactly that when to combat the Coronavirus, Trump proposed “stealing” as they put it, over 500 million dollars that is earmarked to develop a vaccine for Ebola and to prevent the spread of Ebola in the US. An Ebola vaccine has been in use for over a year, and the last of the eleven Ebola cases in the US occurred in 2016.
3
@Rock Winchester Most of what Trump has been taking from other parts of the government have not been given to the virus containment. They have been given to his wall with Mexico which Congress specifically overruled Trump on. His proposed spending on the virus is about $2.5B. Much more is needed.
2
How is this not a pandemic?
Also, how is it that the U.S. is reliant on China for drug raw materials? You would think that "MAGA" anti-China Trump would have worked to ensure U.S. sources of these raw materials. Oh wait, I forgot: he's inept.
29
As a citizen of the United States, I would like to make it absolutely clear that I do not want to hear anything from vice president Mike Pence. I want to hear directly from the CDC.
1049
Pence is supposed to coordinate the attack on the virus, using many sources of expert advice and information. Do you actually believe that those who run a company like, for example, GM, know all about the engineering and science needed to make their product and how best to market it? They rely on experts, just as Pence will.
5
@Rock Winchester I understand @EB to be saying that this is the time for CDC scientists, who have spent entire careers preparing for pandemics, to be given the ability to share their knowledge, and have their recommendations treated with the respect they deserve.
Pence shares the anti-science tendencies of Trump, and would not think of saying or doing anything that would contradict Trump's official line. Even if hard truths need to be disseminated, Pence's control of the process will assure Trump that his political interests are being protected.
63
@Rock Winchester
Pence is an expert in most everything. He doesn't need to rely on anyone. He got his GED when he was governor of Indiana.
17
science is science and statics is one science. Given this fact, all data must be treated in a statistically correct model. Most of current report mixes "apple and pears". In some countries only people with evident disease conditions have been tested and a accounted, and the number of tests is in the 100s order. In other countries anyone with even a minimal possibility to have been in contact with the virus has been tested and tests are in the 10000s order. Quite obvious, statistically, that you shall expect at least one order of magnitude more positive cases where testing has been massive. So... stop worrying of cases like Italy, which is where there were tests in the 10000s number (above) area, and worry to places where there were 100s tests (France, UK, USA, Germany, ....) which are likely to be the same number of affected people then in Italy, but "you just do not know". Another statistical evidence is that severe cases in Italy are in the order of 100 (a bit less) which is exactly the number of cases in places where tests are performe only where there are evident symptoms.
Dear journalists, and politicians, learn science, and learn statistics before hitting the keyboard or going in front of a camera.
Many thanks for accepting the fact that science and mathematics are not politically correct or incorrect: they are just "exact".
all the best
PS: there are no cases in the whole FVG region
6
Exactly! Italy, UK, South Korea: testing ad much as possible. US, Iran, Japan: not too willing or able to test.
5
@Claudio Allocchio, yes of course you are right about statistics. But that isn't how the human being reacts to being confronted with a novel virus to which we have zero immunity. The possibility therefore does exist, no matter how remote it may be statistically, for nearly every person in the United States to become infected. COVID-19 appears, at least thus far, to cause a relatively "mild" case of flu-like symptoms in most people. But we also know that the death rate is between 2% and 3% for people over the age of 65 and/or with certain medical conditions. We have the potential, certainly on my mind because I am in a high-risk category, of 325 million infected Americans and at a death rate of say 2.5%, that means 8,125,000 American deaths.
5
That conclusion is drawn from only one, possibly underreported dataset. if we had more countries testing properly, we would have more datasets and could say with more confidence. alas, it seems that will not happen now.
1
Officials are primarily concerned with the governing politics and socioeconomics ' health' of their nation states.
They aren't biological scientists nor virologists concerned with the health of human beings in their countries in this coronavirus crisis.
Mike Pence infamously proclaimed himself to be ' . .a Christian, a conservative and a Republican in that order' which offers no comforting effective experience for dealing with the coronavirus crisis in America. Plus Pence is dullard Trump sycophant by nature and nurture.
16
The truth is, this virus is going global and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it. Facemasks are probably a waste of money. If you are in an elevator or a shopping aisle with an infected person, chances are you're going to get it.
Interesting analysis posted the other day saying the vast majority of victims have mild cases and recover with no problems. The 2 percent fatalities are what get the headlines.
7
@JSS
Yes. I do think it's a headline when people board on a cruise ship and four of them die as a result.
That certainly gets my attention.
13
@JSS. guess you're not worried about being part of the 2-3% who die from COVID-19, but I sure am. Don't dismiss me merely because I am 68 and have a heart condition. You sound like Trump - I'm expendable. But I'm not expendable to myself or my family.
19
@Jan N
I noticed that a 22-year-old member of the Iranian soccer team died. It is not only the old and infirm at risk.
5
"All of those could curtail productivity."
It seems the major concern for many (not just Trump) is the financial impact and not the threat of a serious health disaster. There seems to be a more frantic rush among governments to some how prop up the stock market than to pour virtually every resource into confronting an impending pandemic. Another NYT article even reports on the need for the Fed to reduce rates. This country's values are more sickening than the Coronavirus will ever be.
40
An economic meltdown makes not just disease a matter of life and death. People with no savings and now no jobs also get sick and sometimes die. Children suffer lifelong consequences to their health and their job prospects. Old people whose savings are wipes out suffer malnutrition and poor health.
Economic prosperity is also a health issue. That’s why income inequality is such a concern. That’s what the country has been talking about with such vitriol and why people are so mad and our politics are so embattled. Please connect the dots.
4
It would be wise for all presidential candidates to cancel rallies immediately, in the interest of public safety.
Hopefully, the media will offer more interviews and articles on candidates records and platforms.
These decisions should not be made with a sense of fear, but with a matter-of-fact "this is the new reality and we are dealing with it to protect everyone" attitude.
36
@EB, how about people using some common sense and staying away from such events. It's like they're daring SARS-CoV-2 to infect them. Come on - I dare you! I ain't afraid of no virus!
2
Medical facemasks are most effective when worn by the person who is ill. They were originally designed to prevent surgeons from infecting their patients.
Rather than quarantine whole cities, we need to persuade Americans to simply stay home if they are sick. Instead we are expected to show up at work when we are half dead. And we can't keep our kids home because we have to work so they spread illnesses to schools and child care facilities. Only a handful can afford to take time off. The solution is simple technically but we have created a society in which for most of us it is impossible financially.
401
@Dan Woodard MD The problem is that there is apparently a great deal of asymptomatic transmission.
17
@Dan Woodard MD
If only your advice about facemasks was printed on the containers. I see so many people walking around wearing these masks, treating them as talismans.
You are right about most workers in the U.S being unable to withdraw from workplace when they're ill. I've been in situations where an illness was passed around the workplace multiple times, with employees staying home only when they were physically unable to be at work.
20
@Dan Woodard MD So true. As the parent of a 2 year old in daycare, I get to see mini-outbreaks all the time. If one parent bit the bullet and kept their kid home, it would keep the rest of the classroom (and the teacher) healthy. Instead, my kid gets sick next and I get to stay home with her in order to stop the spread.
3
Interesting that it’s starting to pop up in tropical countries - undermines the theory that this will go away in the spring.
121
@Lucas Good point, Lucas. What do you say to that, Scientist Trump?
13
@Ecf1, Trump is still talking about there only being 15 cases in the U.S. Not sure where he's getting that. I understand even Fox Propaganda Network is reporting more or less accurate numbers, while pumping conspiracy theories about how the Democrats did it.
6
@Lucas It will show up there but it will not spread the same way. People do get flus in the summer here and there, but it is not flu season. Viruses fare better in cold dry weather. They survive on surfaces longer and stay in the air longer.
2
It may be too late now but countries should be more restrictive about who is allowed entry from international flights, especially from hot spot countries. Citizens arriving home should be placed in some form of quarantine and non citizens should be banned entirely. For example, Nigeria should not have allowed an Italian citizen, especially one who had traveled in Milan recently, into Lagos. Another alternative is to put an end to flights arriving from Italy as many countries have done with flights from China.
14
@Lynn in DC You'd have to ban everyone who's been in an airport recently, or has colleagues who have traveled abroad. My husband went to a non contaminated country - we hope - but transited through Germany and said one of the people he met had been to Italy - non contaminated region, at least we hope so. Now he has a cold, with no fever. He thinks he caught my daughter's cold before he left (his trip was shortened as his company canceled all international travel because of the virus). His company requires he see a doctor if he has cold symptoms and he can work online. He won't get tested because there's not enough grounds to believe it's the coronavirus. On the other hand, there's a possibility it might be. He didn't seem sick enough for me to isolate him in the house. We always wash our hands, I'll wipe surfaces with alcohol. I think I am doing the sensible thing, but at the same time, is it enough? The variables seem too numerous.
3
@Lynn in DC
This is not an effective strategy, which is why the WHO recommends against it. The European outbreak started in Italy, which was the first country to ban flights from China. This strategy just drives people underground and creates complacency for other sources of the disease (like how the first US local case wasn’t tested for days because they had not been to China). It is also discriminatory because many provinces in China have not had new cases in a while and thus there is no justification for banning travel from those areas. We should follow Canada’s approach, which does not ban travel from an entire country but monitors individual travelers.
1
Now is the times when heroes will emerge.
We have lived for years without the need for heroes, except for the superficial kind, like entrepreneurs or sports stars, but desperate times bring the heroes to the forefront. People will embrace the greatness within themselves, mayors will emerge who make all the right moves, Governors will emerge who know instinctively what to do and lead the way for others to follow. Slowly the things that divide us, will fade away and the tomfoolery of the beltway will subside. Every man and women will be tested, some will run and hide and others will rush to the front lines.
Wisdom and courage are devalued in times of peace and prosperity but they are the coin of the realm in a real crises such as the one our country finds itself in right now. Like a lightning bolt out of the blue our whole world is being transformed, we are now living through a great decisive moment in history and new Winston Churchills are about to be found, new foot soldiers, like our grandfathers who fought at the battle of the bulge and Omaha Beach, there DNA is still in us.
The United States always has been a nation of heroes, this is our country, it belongs to us, and as always it will be the common every day heroes, the nurses, the EMS , the police officers, the bus drivers, subway conductors, and the man and women in the street who will save us and get us through to better days.
And like all heroes, they will say-" I was just doing my job and my duty."
75
@Lonnie Thank you. This is a nice hopeful message and I believe long term you are correct. But first, given the current administration, we will have to go through a period of blaming others and draconian measures. Measures that only contribute fear and hate.
9
Beautiful rendition of what we should be. For once it’s not the talking heads in Washington that are the people that will lead our country. They only divide us and cause all the hatred across our country. Thanks for your response it gives me hope in all of our beautiful free country
6
@C. R. Justice, just remember how we got here, and why the virus now appears to be spreading around the country and we have ZERO idea who has it because there's no testing being done unless you end up sick as a dog in a hospital somewhere - and even THEN, the California woman wasn't tested for ELEVEN DAYS. I'm not going to forget that - due to CDC protocols that were obviously long outdated based on what we already knew about the virus, nor am I going to forget the DHS sending unprotected and untrained personnel to Travis Air Force base to greet allegedly "uninfected" evacuees from Wuhan, and when they finished their duties off they went back to their various homes. Nor am I going to forget that it was a Trump appointee who made the decision to put 14 infected evacuees from Japan onto the same plane as people who had tested negative for the virus to bring them back to the U.S.
16
The suggestion that excessive testing is leading to alarm is alarming in itself. It is the other way around.
You test so that you can provide the right medical support, and also to isolate, backtrack contacts and isolate/monitor them in turn to prevent further spread of this fairly unknown disease in the community--protecting, especially, the most vulnerable populations. You also test for future science, to understand how this new infectious disease works.
Partly, the alarm comes from media coverage, which sometimes makes it seem as scary as possible. The media also gives only confirmed numbers without any context or numbers tested. Remember from science class: results mean little when you don't know the methodology. You can end up comparing apples to oranges. (Example: UK had 15 confirmed yesterday out of 7,690 tested, which can be a very different number in significance than US's 14 confirmed out of 445 tested plus 45 confirmed out of ??? (all evacuees) tested. Another example: South Korea has 70,990 tested, 2022 confirmed and 13 deaths. Iran has ? tested, 388 confirmed and 34 deaths. Are you sure Korea has the larger outbreak?) The media only focuses on the number of confirmed cases as if that were the extent of the disease, punishing countries who test and make data public, and providing an disincentive for countries to test and get their numbers higher (as seen in your Italy article and as possibly seen in Japan's slowness to test in combination to drastic actions in
32
Trump is hoping for a miracle to make the virus disappear.
I'm hoping that Trump will disappear and that someone who is actually qualified will take his chair in the oval office and fix the problems that he has created.
We need real leadership and not someone who thinks he's the smartest one in the room.
271
NOW Trump says partisanship is bad and we should all work together. Hilarious!
106
@CelebesSea Except he keeps ranting about how the virus and it's escalation is somehow the fault of Democrats and the nasty socialists, not to mention the stock market.
18
It was only a matter of time that a Trump’s utter incompetence put us all at risk.
126
From the start, for whatever reason my mind and my instincts have predicted every course and turn of this virus.
I begged for the Planes from Italy , Japan, and south Korea to stop, to stop bringing the virus into our country, creating a thousand points of entry, a thousand Australian brush fires to be put out, now we have a thousand metaphorical brush fires starting up all over our country, as travelers come back from their dream vacations in Italy, spreading it in Ohio, Arkansas, etc. Major cities, where international businessmen have meetings, will be hit hard, NYC, Chicago, LA, etc, they will get off Planes, where they will infect 2 or 3 people, they will infect Uber drivers, who will infect other passengers, and on and on it will go. Even now if the Planes were stopped it would be as bad as it will get, but it looks like that will not happen.
The virus comes in waves, remember it has a 7 to 14 day incubation period , so every week comes another wave of sick people, it will last in the United States, through March and April and will become a part of everyday life, it will relinquish as the weather warms up and becomes more humid, different for every state. It will probably weaken, as the weeks go by as it is a derivative of SARS, which mysteriously faded away almost over night.
Restaurants, movie theaters, sporting events will suffer, as will revenues from subways, trains, and buses, creating shortfalls in city budgets.
By July it will be history.
Be safe, be cautious
6
@Lonnie
Please read about this disease. Posts like yours are dangerous. Full of assumptions and little facts.
Unlike Sars, COvid-19 is thought to spread from droplets expelled when a person coughs and lives on surfaces for perhaps four hours or more. There is no indication it will die in the spring. Read below to understand it did not die out mysteriously. There were only 8000 cases.
The transmission of SARS-CoV is primarily from person to person. Most cases of human-to-human transmission occurred in the health care setting, in the absence of adequate infection control precautions. The implementation of appropriate infection control practices brought the global outbreak to an end.
6
@Linda Every doctor I have spoken to believes it will die in the spring, like flus and colds, that do not fare well in hot weather. It has nothing to do with containment procedures. Viruses come in waves.
"dog tested"
I wrote about this the other day. We believe that covid is a zoonotic virus. If so, why can't infection go the other way, from infected people to animals. And if it can, does this then become another vector of spread?
6
@Pigsy
In principle this is possible, but viruses tend to be very specific in their hosts. There are cat viruses that never infect dogs or us, and vice versa. It's the ability to infect a new host - the virus 'jumping' - that is rare but significant.
3
the first case in africa might contradict the stable genius’s statement that the virus will go away by itself when temperatures get warmer
12
More than half a million Nigerians died in the 1918 flu, another virus in the tropics, when the population of the country was 18 million.
7
@umucatta
That remains to be seen. Nigeria's Patient Zero is an Italian citizen who recently traveled to Milan before traveling to Lagos.
1
@umucatta
Singapore has about a hundred cases of coronavirus, and the average daytime temperature in February is 88 degrees, so the stable genius's theory has already been disproved.
6
China has given the world the gift that keeps on giving and is taking away and destroying.
ALL the deadly virus pandemics (with the exceptions of the MERS and Ebola pandemics) which have plagued the world, including the current version, SARS and all those going as far back as the 1918 influenza pandemic that killed more people than who died during WWI, have all originated from China.
China manages its economy on the cheap as the sources are China’s unregulated livestock industry which is a cesspool of dangerous viruses and bacteria. The science of the transfer of virus from animals to humans has been proved. There will be more pandemics originating from China as long as China’s livestock industry is unregulated.
If the coronavirus reaches Africa or large developing countries in south Asia (India, Pakistan, etc.) or in the west Pacific (Indonesia, Philippines, etc.) then it can spread to be a global disaster. This is because these countries do not have the infrastructure to deal with or control coronavirus.
What will China do to compensate the civilized world for the mismanagement and abuses of its economy and society, its unregulated reckless industries and its immeasurable vast theft of intellectual property that have taken so much away from the West?
17
@Gerry O'Brien
Quote: "What will China do to compensate the civilized world for the mismanagement and abuses of its economy and society"
Really? This is your question? Do you see what's going on in our country? The incompetence, the lying, the lack of preparedness, the retaliation against the HHS whistleblower, the muzzling of Anthony Fauci and all other public health experts?
Perhaps you've never heard the saying that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
13
@Gerry O'Brien
Coronavirus could be solution; has anyone thought of that?
The world has at least 3X the human population it can sustainably support. Humans have become a fatal virus that is wrecking havoc on everything.
If 2 out of 3 would disappear the survivors will all have better lives.
Oh there will be grief and sorrow at first but, think about it: rents will go down, mortgages would be almost zero, you could find a seat on the bus, job openings would be plentiful.
I see this as a good thing and a golden opportunity if we consider this virus as providing us a new beginning.
3
@Gerry O'Brien
The worst recent pandemic was the 2009 swine flu which killed 500,000 people worldwide and started in Mexico. These things can start anywhere.
5
Imagine if the Chinese government had been proactive at the moment they learned of the situation. So much energy and time wasted hiding from the truth.
12
@A
And how would the Chinese government know about “the situation”? Two months in and scientists are still not sure if human is the only carrier or not and you think China should know exactly what COVID-19 is 2 months ago
1
@A
It may be hard to accept but even Chinese brilliance has limits. Admittedly, so far into the epidemic, they probably would have done a better job with containment measures for those evacuees from the Diamond Princess that the US, but the Chinese are still only human and it is unlikely that they could have accomplished much more .
1
What’s most mysterious about this outbreak is that we don’t know what, exactly, to fear. Yes if an infected individual has a preexisting condition or otherwise weakened immune response, it’s dangerous, but then, so is influenza. What sets COVID-19 apart so much that it justifies a panic? Do scientists fear it will mutate into something more lethal? Is it more lethal to healthy persons than is reported? Or is this just a fear of the unknown, driven to panic levels by an overheated media response and mistrust of our own government’s announcements? It’s really hard to discern.
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I think that’s a great question. For myself personally (age 45 and healthy), my spouse and for my young children, I have little fear right now. For my parents, in laws, aunts and uncles, elderly neighbors, and family friends, not to mention the CEO at my work whom I adore, all 75-90 , I have great fears. My mother was hospitalized with serious pneumonia last year. I would also hate it if I unknowingly hurt or god forbid killed strangers even while asymptomatic.
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@MWR COVID-19 is more lethal than flu, and is spreading fast. The critical illness rate is very high, at 20%. The death rate so far fluctuates between 0.4% to 4.9% (flu is 0.1%) depending on the health care capacity of the region. Those critically ill from COVID-19 suffer severely impaired lung function and need to be put on ventilators to keep them alive long enough for their immune system to fight off the virus. If there aren't enough ventilators, the death rate skyrockets. How many ventilators per capita do you think your city has? Enough for a 20% critically ill rate?
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@MWR
Numbers, numbers, numbers.
The Spanish flu was just a flu, but it killed and killed and killed. Millions upon millions.
This one could do the same. So transmissible, no vaccine, no medicine.
None of that is panic, it is reality.
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China may succeed in reducing the infection rate, but due to China's massive size they can't stay isolated. China too can get new infections that came from outside China. Just like everyone else. In northern Japan they are saying stay inside for the weekend. If only a weekend were enough.
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and this is why you have to have healthcare for all. the guy who can't afford the rest, the days off work or the medicine may die.. but only after he has infected a number of other people.
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@Jackson
And you think people don't stand in line now? Poor people, people with inadequate insurance or no insurance? People who can't afford healthcare?
And that people won't be standing in line for treatment going forward? So the example of China is what -- meaningless? Make-believe?
Our hospitals can just as easily be overwhelmed, by both critically ill people and by what public health officials call the "worried well" -- people who feel sick but aren't sure what they have or how bad it is. The numbers could be staggering. And we aren't prepared.
But sure -- call it "drama." Apparently Anthony Fauci, Michael Mina, Laurie Garrett, Peter Hotez, and all the thousands of other scientists and public health experts out there who are ringing alarm bells are just being "dramatic."
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@Jackson
I think the point is you would be alive and standing in line.
Unfortunately many people who are unable to understand the need for healthcare for all may soon understand it's necessity.
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Many of the other affected nations have universal healthcare. This will be a test of the United States' system of private care, including the high deductibles and co-pays that discourage people from getting the care they need.
In an epidemic, the health of each one of us is linked to the health of the unhealthiest around us. Having great insurance yourself does not protect you. Being healthy requires that everyone around you has access to the healthcare they need.
That's why healthcare is not an individual consumer product. Everyone needs to have it, including the employees at the restaurants you eat it, the grocery store where you buy your food, the temp who works at your office, and the people you walk by occasionally.
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So well put. The wealthiest among us have been able to buy safe neighborhoods in gated communities, clean water, organic food, private schools and education. But who can build a gated community for the air we breathe? Oops. I suppose thats next!
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@Kraig I was shocked to see the news that the congress was pressing the pharmaceutical representative to make sure vaccine will be priced affordable for lower income people when it becomes available. He didn't affirm it.
We have no such talk in Canada.
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@Kraig
I guess you've never been to an emergency room. People without insurance head there on a daily basis and because of the law get treated.
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How is it that they have drive through testing in South Korea and our doctors have to send their (limited) kits to another state? When will we know the true status of the spread of this virus in America?
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Unusual admission rates at hospital emergency rooms would be a good way to gauge the situation. Also, cases of pneumonia above what would be typical at this time of year. If testing remains minuscule, we'll have to start counting these types of effects as a way to judge the spread.
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@Donna Mac
a drive through testing site has now been opened in London and our NHS has plans to roll it out nationwide. Hassle your politicians to get this
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Great points
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"New infections outside China are now outpacing those within the country, the site of the first and by far the largest outbreak."
The media sometimes inflates bad news. While this statement may represent the truth, it doesn't reflect the rates of growth inside as compared to those outside of China. So the whole story isn't told.
While numbers of newly infected persons are increasing outside China, the numbers of newly infected persons are evidently in decline within China. A graph for each country on daily rates, increasing or decreasing, which the NYT is so good at, would be a more honest way to approach this story.
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It looks like the Coronavirus is gonna sweep the globe
and claim 7 million souls.
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It seems painfully obvious that Mike Pence was appointed, not in order to further RESEARCH into the causes and cure of the virus, but to manage and control Trumpist MESSAGING concerning the virus.
In Iran, frontline officials have contracted the disease, so close are they to the fight.
People are dying, and Trump thinks only about himself, his power.
Where is Trump when we need him?
Where is Trump when our lives are on the line?
Where is Trump when we need the truth, facts, not more of his hideous, blatant, obvious, lies?
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@Paul C. McGlasson
Pence’s days are numbered - and this assignment to manage this crisis is something he is not prepared for (few would be). Health issues are wildly unpredictable. This will obviously be a great reason for his dismissal as the 2020 VP candidate. This will not end well for him and Trump now has a perfect scapegoat.
“Pence? I barely know that guy....”
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@Paul C. McGlasson
That type of messaging is called CENSORING.
A hallmark of dictatorships.
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@Paul C. McGlasson Trump's bone spurs must be acting up for him to recuse himself from the front lines of the coronavirus crisis as he did during the Vietnam War, restless was the call to great deeds even in his youth. Poor guy. How he must have suffered risking veneral disease in that other category of male achievement: the sowing of his seed in the sheer numbers of adult film stars. As Trump said, that was his Vietnam, his contribution to America's welfare. We are witnessing profiles in courage that are the seeds of American mythology. What an honor it is to stand in his shadow. Trump 2020!
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Obviously when eat foods that are not halal or kosher especially live animals then bad things are gonna happen.
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The so-called 'West' is again failing poor, developing countries, who are now poised, but unprepared, to cope with a crisis not of their making. The World Bank is dragging its feet by not releasing critical funds in a timely manner for preparation initiatives, especially in Africa where only Senegal and South Africa have limited capacity. In all my years in global health advocacy, I've never seen such confusion, chaos, lack of coordination and cooperation.
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@CHARLES WHO is under China's control now, not the democratic and liberal West.
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@Sean
WTO and World Bank should also be turnover to China if you believe your own nonsense.
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The wide spread hysteria and economic panic are much worse than the coronavirus. Mortality is between 0.4-2% dependent on the age group and mainly effects risk groups with other compromising health issues, and this is without taking in account the many cases of asymptomatic people, in which case the mortality would be similar to the common flu. Bottom line coronavirus infection though novel is not much worse than the flu. Caution is warrant but public Hysteria due to media coverage is uncalled for. Finally, I am disgusted by how many journalists and readers blame Trump for the situation or mention him in articles responses related to the disease. He did a fantastic job in a balanced sober presentation with Pence the CDC and the NIH on Wednesday.
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Considering that this new flu is 20 times more lethal than the common flu... should I even end my sentence?
That’s certainly true that the USA has among the best scientists in the world, but as opposed to the other industrialized countries, they have to work on this crisis AND watch their back.
If you have Netflix, I suggest that you watch the documentary Pandemic. Then come back and post again.
I agree that panic is counterproductive but people have very good reasons to be very worried.
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Trump did a fantastic job?
Do you mean when he said there were 15 cases in the US (actually over 60)?
Or when he promised that in a few days the cases would be down to 5, then 0?
Or did you mean when he said the market looked pretty good to him?
Or were you impressed that he blamed the Monday market drop on the next day’s debate?
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@lieberma - Pence's record from the HIV epidemic in Indiana isn't reassuring.
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Although there are still many unknowns, it seems pretty clear that this has a two week (or longer) incubation period and that people can both carry and spread the virus without showing any symptoms.
So that means that the cases now showing up all over the world are two weeks' worth of global air travel behind the actual spread - and thus that any efforts at "containment" are completely futile. Right?
I understand that slowing the spread as much as possible is important to keep health facilities from being overwhelmed. But given how contagious this seems to be and how long it persists, is it really possible to slow things down meaningfully without confining everyone in the world to their houses for six months? Sure, let's all wash our hands, but is that actually going to do anything on a broader scale?
I am not a public health expert and would be happy to be told why this is wrong.
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Slowing the spread of an epidemic give times to prepare. If you want, you can compare this to anticipating a surprise attack: it will come but you will have time to buttress your defenses. What is really important is how one uses this extra time for.
Another reason is that if this virus is less resistant to a warmer weather (still to be proven), then delaying outbreaks until spring may help.
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@Gvaltat
We all have been talking about epidemics for decades. Politicians do nothing and now like climate change it’s to late for meaningful interaction because here in America the GOP just don’t care
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@Tony and you think the dems do?
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78 hospitals are ready in France to tackle with epidemy.
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I thank NYT for this comprehensive reporting from around the world.
It will be of interest to many readers including myself if NYT provided a comparative picture of SARS in it's early stages to this Wuhan virus.
I used to live in Jakarta at time of SARS. I recall there was likewise much hysteria over that virus –later proved to be unfounded. It appears SARS was deadlier than Wuhan.
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@Neil SARS may have a higher case fatality rate than COVID-19, but COVID-19 has a higher transmission rate.
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@Neil check out yesterday’s episode of the Daily. They compare it to other Coronaviruses.
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It matters who our leaders are. First world countries are very complicated systems that must be continuously improved and managed by capable professionals. trump and his minions are anything but capable and professional so it’s no wonder that trump and his administration have together decided that the PR battle of the Caronavirus is more important than the welfare of the people they have pledged to serve and protect. Chaos, anger, bluster and incompetence at every step of the way has characterized this unfortunate presidency to the detriment of the nation and the world. Re-electing trump and letting him be in charge for even one more minute beyond the length of his first term? Nothing could be worse for our country and the world.
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I would like to point out that the island of Ireland now has an official case. While it's in the north of Ireland, under UK rule, it is now in mainland Ireland and somehow, isn't being reported on.
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At this point the only way Trump can safely do a rally will be with a face mask and gloves, or in some type of glass cage. That will instill fear in his supporters. If he broadcast the rallies, they will wonder why he didn't show up. Eventually they'll wonder why the markets don't share his confidence. And when the rural hospitals start filling up, they'll wonder why it isn't on the news. Looks like he's in a corner now.
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Sick, for you to use a tragedy like this and turn it political. That’s the disease we have in our country not the virus. Hopefully, people die, people loose jobs, stocks collapse etc... that way we can blame Trump. Is this rational thinking? Stop it go beyond your 2 dimensional thinking. We must all work together to improve things and people that have differences in opinion than you shouldn’t be your enemy or dead. Trumps first move of stopping all flights into the US from China, echoed by the Australians was a good move and being replicated worldwide after the fact. Hopefully the team in place can help to contain this and I hope he has Democrats who care for the country above party involved not a person such as yourself.
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I hope you had the same viewpoints when you listened to Trump onstage with medical experts interjecting politics and political rants into practically every answer. I'm always amazed how the same behavior can be overlooked in one person and blasted in another. We can all agree there is no place for politics in this situation and we need strong leadership to overcome it. I hope Trump's next press conference on the topic will exclude the tangents about the democrats and the media out to get him.
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Most of the rural hospitals are either closed are seriously understaffed anyways.
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