The Reagan cure, “ don’t get sick.”.
9
Trump said at the press conference
'People say why isn't he in China?'
I have never heard anybody say that. Another straw man, another misleading red herring.
He keeps boasting what an incredible job he has done. The market does not seem to say so. He whinges that the press is not giving him credit for the amazing job. I think he means it which makes the delusion even more frightening. I believe he really thinks he is doing an incredible job.
Lies float so seamlessly out of his mouth, I think he believes his own prevarications.
11
it is amazing to watch the Trump administration repeat every mistake made by the Chinese government eight weeks ago.
16
The power of the microscopically small. One-percent moguls cannot tame it. It potentially could bring governments to their knees. Scary as coronavirus is, what a wakeup call. We all exist together on a biodynamic sphere, and, once again, we are challenged by a simple organism. We can conquer the world, but we remain vulnerable to the world. Climate change, healthcare, life on earth transcends politics and money and power when threatened by disease. I want to point a finger at Trump, I really do, but I don’t. I just wish, for once, we could work together and join forces to protect the people. But we aren’t strong enough to do that. We are humans, vulnerable. Vulnerable and unable to transcend our petty quarrels. Mother nature is a terrific equal opportunist.
5
Can we short sell Trump....?
24
@Pia
that is precisely what is happening...markets are deciding and rejecting Pence/Kudlow/Azar.
12
@Pia Where would we find a buyer ?
3
A choice moment to recall Trump’s tweet in February 2015:
“If the Dow Jones ever falls more than 1000 “points” in a Single Day the sitting president should be “loaded” into a very big Cannon and shot into the sun at TREMENDOUS SPEEDS! No excuses!
53
Snopes says the quote is not true. Don’t believe everything you read.
9
Thanks for the correction, you’re right. It did sound like something he’d say.
6
@Lleone I hear you. It DOES sound exactly like something he would say and I surely wish he had said it! The reason I checked it out was that I received it via e-mail the other day and the e-mail version had "Dow Joans". Now, trump is certainly a terrible speller, but for him to misspell Dow Jones just didn't sit right with me, so I checked it out.
The best to you!
8
The United States has 60 confirmed cases of novel coronavirus, Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar said.
• 42 are former passengers on the Diamond Princess Cruise Ship, the site of a recent outbreak and quarantine.
• 3 are Americans recently repatriated from Wuhan, China, the center of the outbreak.
• 1 patient at UC Davis Medical Center contracted the illness through unknown means.
• Most of the other 14 patients either had recently been to China or are a spouse of someone who recently returned from China.
4
And how many people have they been directly or indirectly in contact with?
4
Now that this thing has gone global, you people can't just sit back and laugh at the "incompetence" of the the Chinese government anymore, who btw has mustered sufficient manpower and resources in such short time and put the most effective countermeasures in practice. Has South Korea done better? Has Japan done better? Has Italy done better? Are you 100 % confident the US will do better?
So let's quit bickering over which system is better and work together to tackle the virus, as one team, as one family, we are all earthlings.
808
@J I don't know who's been sitting back & laughing as a global pandemic has begun unfolding. What evidence of this reaction can you offer?
Perhaps you're reacting to criticism of your government. Perhaps you regard all such criticism as illegitimate.
Clearly the Chinese government did some things right & some things wrong. Suppressing criticism makes it harder to learn anything & improve.
The American government has already made mistakes--for example a sick woman having to wait 11 days to be tested even though her doctors wanted her to be tested.
Not to mention the previous dismantling of teams designed to deal with just such an emergency.
But come November we get to change the leadership of our government. While you have to cheer on your current leadership or face negative consequences.
138
@Jack Toner
I do not disagree with much you have said. However, many who have not cheered on our current leadership have faced negative consequences, especially those who were formerly part of it.
26
@J Democracy is much, much better.
30
For all those who credited Trump with the rise in the stock market, himself in particular, give him credit as well for the recent plunge. it's only fair. And thanks Trump for the very low interst rates, great for borrowers like, I dont know, real estate developers, but not so great for retirees relying on investments in bonds or for the economy - the Fed not having very much room now to lower rates.
1352
@JH
Yes. Trump demanded low interest rates because he is obviously tied up in massive debts, I assume with variable interest rates. I think he is abusing his power to keep his own debts down. He meddles in the justice system and he meddles in the markets.
368
@Bob Guthrie
With rates as low as they are he locked in while money was cheap.
13
@JH I remember a whole lot of conservative seniors savaging Barack Obama for the low interest rates he was using to try to save the global economy from collapse and get the American economy moving again. Darned if I haven't heard one of them complain about Trump's intimidating the Fed into lowering interest rates even when the economy's been pretty good.
Rhetorical question to which we all know the answer: Why is that?
115
If the coronavirus spreads in the United States, how will Trump supporters react?
After being told by the Trump administration it's all a hoax. Concocted by Trumps enemies to defeat him in the next election.
Will they consider it anti-Trump to see a doctor? Will they self isolate themselves and stay away from work places or public gatherings? If Trump tells them it's fake news?
Will they just say it's nothing. Just the common cold.
As Trump supporters, will they take heed from the anti-Trump deep state health professionals? Or listen to the "lying" anti-Trump mainstream media" reporting?
Or keep their faith in Trump?
If so, the coronavirus will spread like wild fire.
I'm worried.
28
Doctors are not known to be Trump Cult members as a rule. Very seldom do you see them on their knees praising Generalissimo Bonespurs, therefore you can expect to see them fired and persecuted by the Department of Trump Justice.
6
@cwc
Chill.
2
The inability to see such an obvious threat to our national security and markets finally lays bare the ineptitude of the republican administration. They did it in 2008 and they’re doing it again.
Trump represents the core of the republican soul; and now he’s ready for his closeup Mr, DeMille.
769
@Peter Bogdanos I disagree. The US has managed to minimize infection rates compared to East Asia and parts of Europe while still keeping its connections open to the world.
3
@Peter Bogdanos How True. But, Lord forgive them for they know not what they have done!
4
@brian Let us see if @brian will be able to repeat his comment in two weeks from now.
26
ThereaP I am of a similar age and in a similar financial situation. I would like to suggest that you "invest" in removing our current President and his sycophant GOP senators.
9
co-author of a book about stopping epidemics here.
1) during this kind of crisis, trust that leaders care about citizens and that the government is taking all possible steps to protect them is crucial. This is why we need clear, transparent, fact-based and 24/7 communication from scientists, not politicians who try to blind themselves to, skew, gild or obfuscate the facts. Calm, direct communication from experts can prevent panic reactions (stock market freak-outs, hoarding, attacking the 'other', tamp down rumors, etc.) If the government is muzzling scientists and/or forcing them to 'clear' the facts, then the scientists have an obligation to speak out via the press anyway.
2) We reliable tests and community-based, on-the-ground protection measures. We need to protect our health care workers and people who work with the public first. So face masks need to be in their hands. We also need a lot of reliable test kids. Sofar the CDC hasn't been on its game with reliable test kits.
3) We need strong, well-funded public health systems with complete care coverage for all citizens.
The U.S. is doing none of this. In fact, Trump. Ludlow, Pence and Republicans in Congress appear to care more about retaining power and holding up the stock market to protect Trump's re-election chances than about protecting public health.
20
correction
Jerusalem Post Health & Science Israeli scientists: 'In a few weeks, we will have coronavirus vaccine' Once the vaccine is developed, it will take at least 90 days to complete the regulatory process and potentially more to enter the marketplace. By MAAYAN JAFFE-HOFFMAN FEBRUARY 27, 2020 20:58
Yes, but THE STOCK MARKET WILL REBOUNCE SND SEE ABOVE. The wide spread hysteria and economic panic are much worse than the coronavirus. Mortality is between 0.4-2% dependent on the age group and mainly effects risk groups with other compromising health issues, and this is without taking in account the many cases of asymptomatic people, in which case the mortality would be similar to the common flu. Bottom line coronavirus infection though novel is not much worse than the flu. Caution is warrant but public Hysteria due to media coverage is uncalled for. Finally, I am disgusted by how many journalists and readers blame Trump for the situation or mention him in articles responses related to the disease. He did a fantastic job in a balanced sober presentation with Pence the CDC and the NIH on Wednesday.
3
@lieberma A great presentation! So nothing to worry about. Our stable genius gave a great presentation. What else matters?
BTW ever hear of doctors dying from the flu? I never did but at least three Chinese doctors have died.
10
Jerusalem Post Health & Science Israeli scientists: 'In a few weeks, we will have coronavirus vaccine' Once the vaccine is developed, it will take at least 90 days to complete the regulatory process and potentially more to enter the marketplace. By MAAYAN JAFFE-HOFFMAN FEBRUARY 27, 2020 20:58
This is so right, but THE STOCK MARKET WILL REBOUNCE AND SEE ABOVE. The wide spread hysteria and economic panic are much worse than the coronavirus. Mortality is between 0.4-2% dependent on the age group and mainly effects risk groups with other compromising health issues, and this is without taking in account the many cases of asymptomatic people, in which case the mortality would be similar to the common flu. Bottom line coronavirus infection though novel is not much worse than the flu. Caution is warrant but public Hysteria due to media coverage is uncalled for. Finally, I am disgusted by how many journalists and readers blame Trump for the situation or mention him in articles responses related to the disease. He did a fantastic job in a balanced sober presentation with Pence the CDC and the NIH on Wednesday.
4
mr president, your fired
15
Time for the President to go play golf.
Oh and thanks again, Susan Collins.
43
I credit all this to the sky-is-falling media. With all the hand wringing going on over the coronavirus.. does anyone have a count of how many cases of influenza have cropped up in the same time frame?
1
@Illuminati Reptilian Overlord #14 One disease is not the other. Flu has been around for hundreds of years, its fatality rate is lower, it is less contagious, we have perfected testing techniques for it, and we have a vaccine for it. We know far more about the flu than we do about coronavirus. People are scared of what they do not understand.
6
@Kristin
Search - "influenza mortality rate". Less contagious? Three to five million serious illness cases worldwide every year, resulting in 290,000 to 600,000 deaths. Source: the World Health Organization.
1
The Trump economy was built on fault lines on an earthquake zone. Now there's been an earthquake, exposing the poor choices of the Trump Presidency. I hope that finally gets through to Trump supporters.
Trump won't fix the mess we are in by suppressing information with a Pence black out on negative news.
19
Trumpists, no one is blaming your "president" for this virus. What we are blaming him for is his negligent, reckless "response" to the crisis. His lies have gotten him through three years of a disastrous presidency. But he cannot lie his way out of his incompetence on this one. Mike Pence as "Virus Czar"? Truly Kafkaesque.
Folks, the world markets aren't reacting as they have this week because they are run by ignorant, foolhardy folks. They know this health crisis is real, and the only unknown remaining is the scope of it throughout the world.
More than half us saw (and the majority of voters by some three million) saw Trump for the fraud that he is. Why the rest of you didn't is beyond me. Does his racism appeal to you that much, that you are willing to believe the basest of lies he makes? Lies that number into the tens of thousands in the past three years?
Well, Trumpists, your "president's" lies are all you are going to get, should you or your family members come down with this illness. I hope this makes you feel better.
Thoughts and prayers.
39
sigh....
Now the Dems have to come in and clean up after ANOTHER Republican administration disaster...
35
It took W 8 years to crash the Market. The Dotard did it in less than 4.
40
@b davis Ridiculous. How has this recent drop in the markets been President Trump's fault? Please explain. It seems to me that it's a panic sell-off fueled in part by the media. Many big players are profiting off this histeria.
1
@Saints Fan I lost $29,000 this week.
2
@Spanky It is almost March 1. There has been very little done by this Adm. to stop the panic. Maybe 3 months ago they could have begun speaking about the pandemic and easing peoples fears.
Since in the past, Trump has tried to blame Obama or Democrats for events that were clearly not in their control, this ongoing mess, can be laid right at Trump's tiny little feet. You OWN this one Trump.
17
Democratic leaders and candidates need to launch an immediate, very public, very prolonged effort to secure a means for nationwide, mail-in balloting for the November presidential election so that ALL can vote by mail (postage free).
Trump's complete, willful ignorance and refusal to accept the reality of the risk of the coronavirus and his utter incompetence in managing it aggressively and effectively could easily result in a nation crippled on all levels by illness
and death.
There is absolutely NO doubt in my mind that Trump would use this to his advantage to steal and perhaps even call off the election.
21
It does not help that this health crisis is being "managed" by a couple of ignoramuses. Just wait until we have an outbreak on a submarine, an aircraft carrier, or worse.
17
Trump recently orchestrated huge cuts to the food stamp program thereby denying proper nutrition to millions of people including children who's free lunch program will be cut drastically. Improper nutrition greatly lowers resistance to disease. When will they realize that the health of each member of The Hive affects the whole hive. You truly are your Brother's Keeper.
11
If every cloud has a silver lining, than this virus putting an end to Donald Trump's reign would certainly count as gold - if not platinum. It's hard to imagine that this virus could possibly do more damage than another four years of Donald Trump. It just goes to show how much I despise this man and his politics.
12
You’d think we’d be used to having a plague...Trump has been a plague to our country for over three years.
16
The Trump / Pence clown show will be responsible for the deaths of millions.
Why is anyone surprised?
5
I'm actually quite glad to see this. Nothing hurts the greedy sociopathic Trump supporters more than seeing their 401ks decline. Well you elected an ignorant sociopath as president and he's trashing the republic. So guess what? Karma.
2
MAGAs hate Wall Street and Wall Street hates MAGAs. Virus will destroy both.
1
Save us, Don, save us!
1
Poor Mr Trump. Avoiding STD’s was his personal Viet Nam, and now covid19 is his personal 9/11.
5
The Trump Slump is here. Doin' a heckuva job, Donnie!! It's amateur hour. Maybe Pence can come up with a coronoavirus conversion therapy.
1
Darn you, China!
So Cash is Trash ??
How long will it be before the Chosen One blames this all on Obama??
2
Oh, so now Jerome's my buddy? ... where're my Fox notecards? Hellllp!
1
It would have been handy if universal health care were in place in the USA as it is in place in all other modern economies. You guys got conned into thinking that you cannot afford what everybody else manages to afford.
What a scam. The United Scams of America, The favourite boogeyman sacred cow abracadabra magic word used to manipulate average Americans- "socialism"... whooooooaaah
So terrifying to have your family covered for medical emergencies.
4
Our president is so concerned about the virus he's holding yet another rally in his own honor.
3
I wonder how Trump will spend this? Clearly this is Obama’s fault. Watch for the tweet, folks.
1
I believe the article author meant to write 256.4 million barrels of oil in storage. Gasoline doesn't store very well.
1
Here we go. A virus that can’t be “Foxed” news away being managed by an evangelical nut job who’ll need his “mother” with him in the event he has to meet with female scientists and stage managed by a reality tv star with major league germophobia. This should get interesting, especially w rates really low and the deficit out of control, not to mention a bunch of buffoons managing already depleted government agencies. Climate denial might work but virus denial won’t especially when the uninsured MAGA acolytes and their close cousins, the evangelicals, get sick and can’t access healthcare.
2
I am up two percent today...
I'm embarrassed by NY Times coverage this week. Just once, can we please have a headline about the threat the coronavirus poses to human beings, rather than to their stock portfolios?
The market effect is a story, and it's fine to cover it. But when "Stocks Plunge!" is your daily headline and "oh yeah, and some people died" is buried a few paragraphs down, I'd suggest your priorities are as badly out of line as your president's.
3
All this because Chinese think that everything with a pulse is lunch. Major karma happening here.
In the midst of all this, I’ve heard that Trump and the GOP’s planned 2021 budget includes a $1.7 trillion cut, primarily to Social Security.
Why is the NYT not reporting on this?!?!
It’s a much bigger story than a temporary stock market dip.
it ended at the high for the day. indicates at least a suckers rally on Monday.
GOOD NEWS> too bad the idiots at the FED will decide that it;s fun to punish the little guy by lowering the interest rates.... and then of course we will have to reduce all taxe on the super rich and the banksters because they did so badly this year. The stock market is supposed to involve risk and savings accounts with interest rates are supposed to be for the little guy. Bldg awful housing project and destroying all sorts of habitat is a great method of land management... and frankly I hope the market goes down more, much more. Time people stopped buying things and shoving them directly into the garbage. Time for a greener life y'all. Time to eat less.
2
Pence's first job is to figure out how this is Obama's fault. I hear he's close to a cure.
5
when Mike Pence finishes praying he may actually do something?
3
The news that online searches for corona beer and virus, along with the fact that Trump is our president, illustrates that the US is in much greater danger from stupidity than COVID-19.
2
This is disgusting. A disease is affecting the planet but the media is up in arms because Wall Street is losing money.
Don’t panic
Under the plenary powers of the Unitary Executive President Trump can order the virus to die and the markets to go back up.
- Bill ‘Flintstone’ Barr
4
How's that 401k doing now Trumpies ?Your sole and only argument in favor of Trumpery is kaput !
2
Stable Genius Trump's Strategy:
Time to hold a Rage Fest Rally in South Carolina!
Virus Czar Mike Pence's Strategy:
Thoughts and Prayers!
Economic Wizard Larry Kudlow's Strategy:
Stocks look pretty cheap to me!
Chief of Staff Mulvaney's Strategy:
Shut down the media!
Attorney General Barr's Strategy:
Investigate Biden!
4
"People say" Larry Kudlow flunked econ at Princeton. Makes perfect sense to me.
4
How terribly exiting for the loony left!
Unfortunately, it won't work...Trump in a 2020 LANDSLIDE!
Watch...
Thanks, China.
Q. Whose idea was it to put a con artist, a bankrupt casino kingpin, someone who couldn't even qualify for a loan, in charge of the world's largest economy?
A. Vladimir Putin's.
2
This virus must be stopped.
Waiting for #45 to brag about it....
2
The global economy is so vulnerable that only one virus can collapse it. Now the world is struggling to contain the Coronavirus. Even if the governments can contain it, another virus could appear in the near future. We have learned that the extreme globalism could bring great risk to our society.
"The Fed says it is willing to act if the outbreak worsens."
IF the outbreak worsens? There's NO scenario where the outbreak does NOT worsen. It certainly isn't expected to get better any time soon.
What're they smokin' at the Fed?
I'm shocked that what makes "big news" in the US (or at least NYT) is the state of the stock market. In Europe, the media is more concerned about death rates and the fate of the "average guy". Which confirms my suspicion that really the NYT readers are as much of a problem as the "clueless" and less educated average Americans. Honestly, who really cares how the stock markets react to the coronavirus...so the rich might be slightly less rich, for a few months....
Talking heads seeking to reassure the public should avoid the phrase "fundamentally sound" like the ... well, uh ... a bit of gallows humor here ... like the plague. That's what they said in 2008-09 and it just evokes bad thoughts.
2
Why the heck is the fed considering cutting rates again.... how does it resolve essentially a supply chain issue.
1
I do presume to know what drives the stock market. I do feel that it is worth reminding all of us that the stock market has steadilygone up for be long time with few lasting "correctnions". In adit,
One silver lining:
The market plummeted so far so fast I did not have time to panic sell.
So, now I’m just stuck, and have to wait for the market to climb itself out of this hole.
I hope the worst is over.
I can’t see this virus all by itself bringing the world economy to a screeching halt.
Just manufacture more masks.
Make everyone with a cold stay home.
Put more hand desanitizers in public places.
Fast track a screening test that gets used on everyone coming off of an international flight.
This is all doable.
It should not cut down the world economy.
1
People partaking in speculative behavior continue being misidentified as "investors". Through the longest bull run in the equities market, these profiteers conflate good fortune and hard work, their ill gotten gains swept away by a tiny invisible organism.
Simply breathtaking.
1
Where is President Trump? Where is Trump hiding after that debacle of a press conference? Trump seems to hate President Obama. However, President Obama calming the raging waters of the worse downturn since the Great Depression and put the US back on track toward prosperity. Is the germ fear Trump hiding in some safe room? Do something great and mighty egotistical loser.
2
No worries, Mike Pence is in charge of the cover-19 response. Who doesn't feel better?
1
Everybody relax. Pence has got this.
1
Not to worry. Dr. Trump is a genius. He'll save all of us who matter. His student intern, however, is looking rather Pence-ive.
1
So Trump and his stooges will consider giving the Wall Street rich another tax break. The poor souls. The airlines are crying for mercy already. You can bet Trump will order the American people to give them a bailout. All Americans of simple means will get out of this is NOTHING! Vote out the GOP!
1
What are Mr. Kudlow's medical credentials? Or his economics credentials for that matter?
2
Unbelievable that people are politicizing this (a cheap shot) and blaming Trump for the market crash for a virus that started in...China.
The Trump haters are blaming him for the stock market decline. It is almost as though they are joyful that the market has tanked. This is just a temporary drop and like other downs in the market this will rise again. But the Trump haters are probably hoping it doesn’t happen. Those who wish ill about the economy are the deranged ones and sick.
MAGA! How much more wining can my 403b take?
1
Dear NYT, please continue to prosecute the case for public awareness of the Coronavirus. I have previously supported the president but am convinced he is placing his political agenda ahead of the public welfare. I have known and respected the NYT for 50 years. Trump, not so much.
My question: Did Mike Pence really ever want this? Shows you who he truly is.
Finally. Something that might sink the president into his own swamp.
Blub blub blub.
1
Our disgusting president is more concerned with the spread of criticism of Trump than of the spread of the coronavirus.
He appoints his totally unqualified Vice President to head up the discuss and information dissemination regarding the coronavirus.
2
Who would have thought that a pandemic would be the thing that exposed Trump for his lies, his lack of care for this country, and his staggering incompetence?
I guess you can't bribe, intimidate, or threaten a virus into submission, can you?
3
Time for a new Vick’s product . . . Coronaquil. Now is the time to buy Proctor & Gamble stock cheap too. It’s like the world have never seen a disease before.
successful long term investors avoid sheep shearing and come back in to bag up the wool.
I believe the virus is caused by rats. And since this is the YEAR OF THE RAT the rats all decided to organize. Humans have been trying to kill them for centuries. The rats have finally risen up to show humans who is the real boss of planet earth.
Pathetic. What happened to let the markets decide.
How are we doing, President Egomaniac?
2
Gullibility of average homosapiens is appalling. google search results corona beer and virus come in the same page and , Corona beer sells affected negatively.
We are really living by chance, luck, etc,
1
We all knew the Obama recovery wouldn’t last forever.
Welcome to the Trump stock market!
2
I'm beginning to sense a pattern: Hoover, 1929; wBush, 2008; loud Trump, 2020. Republican, Republican, Republican.
4
Okay, so we are on the cusp of a global pandemic and people are worrying about the stock market.
What's wrong with this picture?
What is trump doing to fix this economic calamity. It’s all on him.
1
Another Republican President begets another economic swoon. Time for the Dems to come back and save the day... again.
2
Democrats have never been so desperate in my lifetime. Pelosi tries to put on a happy face and grin through the fact that Trump has beaten her, Schiff, Nadler, Schumer and the rest of the Democrat Reps. and Senators at every turn. All they can do now is to hope for a divine wind to save them from the disaster that awaits them in November. Actually wishing for a plague or anything that could disrupt the economy and bring down the focus of their fury. This too shall pass, despite the best efforts of the Democrats to make the American people suffer, to satisfy their rage.
1
The mainstream media and Democratic leaders, such as Pelosi, have just crushed countless IRAs by hyping what seems to be nothing more dangerous than a virulent strain of flue.
Voters may remember this.
Really? I didn’t know Pelosi alone controls the stock values. I always assumed it was CEO’s and investment banks.
3
If it’s such a romp, perhaps you’d consider contracting it. You know, just for fun!
3
I would like to make a public service announcement: Larry Kudlow, director of the National Economic Council, is better suited to be a carnival barker rather than passing out any realistic economic advise. Exhibit A is the pronouncements he made during the Great Recession. His advice came in three flavors: Wrong, more wrong and just plain idiotic.
But he fits right in with Trumpworld. Just don’t trust anything he says.
2
No worries the Feds got our back. As soon as they start printing the markets will soar. And coronavirus will die.
1
Fortunately we have a "very stable genius" who will solve this problem.
1
People are panicking over a virus that will pass pretty quickly. The economy is still strong and America is in great shape.
Trump is going to win in 2020
Aren't New York Times a bit too hysterical. The collapse of stock market that hopefully is temporary has no justification in global economy, only in global hysterical pandemic. China is getting the epidemic under control, we hope, and the worries that China will be permanently infected with the virus, with its economy, that feeds other markets, completely halted, are unfounded.
China and its communist government can be blamed for letting the epidemic spread within China and beyond - it could be controlled if identified and shared with the world early.
I believe DJT deserves to be impeached again for dismantling the disease/epidemic fighting parts of our government--it's an outrageous abuse of power.
3
Come on, the meteoric rise in the market has been silly and irrational. Whether from Coronavirus or something else it was bound to correct.
I knew my gains were a temporary fiction, unless I sold. No one should rely heavily on stocks once they're retired.
And no president should take credit for a ball that bounces high, because well, gravity.
1
The uninformed are busy with the hysterical comments--so some facts:
CDC estimates that influenza was associated with more than 35.5 million illnesses, more than 16.5 million medical visits, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths during the 2018–2019 influenza season.
The press has no data that this flu will have a higher mortality rate.
“It looks like we will weather this,” Mr. Kudlow said on the Fox Business Network.
"Looks like"?
Who's 'we'?
Anyone else terrified of finding out what "not weathering it" means in the Trump administration?
3
In 2020 there are more than 16,000 deaths in the USA due to the flu. Where is the news coverage about those deaths? China makes news because it is an enemy of the people. Please put on your masks, show lots of Asians in masks, make people crazy. The unanticipated blow out of the equities markets is a gold mine for shorts, who may have helped fuel this little event. In the meantime, the Trump administration is praying and calling on all of the anti-vaxers to move closer to loony-tune land in hopes of winning the 2020 election. In pre-social media times, this would have been called cult crazy but now, it's simply normal times.
Correctionn
Jerusalem Post Health & Science Israeli scientists: 'In a few weeks, we will have coronavirus vaccine' Once the vaccine is developed, it will take at least 90 days to complete the regulatory process and potentially more to enter the marketplace. By MAAYAN JAFFE-HOFFMAN FEBRUARY 27, 2020 20:58
PLEASE DO NOT FALL FOR THE SCARY TACTICS OF THE LEFTISTS. THE STOCK MARKET WILL REBOUNCE AND SEE ABOVE. The wide spread hysteria and economic panic are much worse than the coronavirus. Mortality is between 0.4-2% dependent on the age group and mainly effects risk groups with other compromising health issues, and this is without taking in account the many cases of asymptomatic people, in which case the mortality would be similar to the common flu. Bottom line coronavirus infection though novel is not much worse than the flu. Caution is warrant but public Hysteria due to media coverage is uncalled for.
@ lieb the public doesn’t control the stock market, Wall Street investment banks buy and sell based on their confidence or lack there of. Apparently, conservative Wall Street has voted no confidence despite trumplican protests. Stop blaming the public.
2
Trump Republican crisis planning, the lethal coronavirus and our ailing American economy: "We'll see what happens."
2
Jerusalem Post Health & Science Israeli scientists: 'In a few weeks, we will have coronavirus vaccine' Once the vaccine is developed, it will take at least 90 days to complete the regulatory process and potentially more to enter the marketplace. By MAAYAN JAFFE-HOFFMAN FEBRUARY 27, 2020 20:58
PLEASE DO NOT FALL FOR THESCARY TACTICS OF THE LEFTISTS. THE STOCK MARKET WILL REBOUNCE SND SEE ABOVE. The wide spread hysteria and economic panic are much worse than the coronavirus. Mortality is between 0.4-2% dependent on the age group and mainly effects risk groups with other compromising health issues, and this is without taking in account the many cases of asymptomatic people, in which case the mortality would be similar to the common flu. Bottom line coronavirus infection though novel is not much worse than the flu. Caution is warrant but public Hysteria due to media coverage is uncalled for.
Donald Trump exasperated the stock plunge with his incoherent, non re-assuring press event the night before the Dow fell 1200 points. Markets are always bound to react to a pandemic threat, but Trump's mealy-mouthed response and lack of leadership spooked the confidence of investors. No other country's markets have taken the hit the US's have.
Yes, we can blame the Corona virus for a downturn, but we can blame the incompetent leadership of Donald Trump for making it worse.
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We don’t need to stimulate the economy. We need to stop the spread of the virus called Trump racism.
People’s lives are at stake and Republicans are basically saying this is fake news perpetrated by Democrats to gain political advantage? What happened to America?
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And Trump is headed to a rally to bathe his ego. President Obama: please show him how this is done.
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If Larry Kudlow is reassuring Americans that “we will weather this” and that this is a “good time to buy stock”, the world should be very worried.
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We will come out of this coronavirus and President Trump will triumph. Of course, the haters will be very upset. They will have to find something else in which to hate about our president. It won’t take long.
I just recalled that recent US-China deal signing ceremony at the White House, where 45 was self congratulating himself. The Middle Kingdom takes the long view, 3,000 year history, as opposed to 45 short-termism of 'tremendous, amazing, really great etc' blather. Again, he's touched the third rail of the global economy and he's getting burned. Events, my dear, boy events!!
Still don’t understand how a virus whose symptoms are similar but whose infection and death rates are many times less than flu is causing everyone to flip out? What am I missing?
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu
Why is the Fed even considering lowering interest rates? Has the Fed's objective changed to protecting stock holders? If the economy is slowing down because of the coronavirus, what is the justification for Fed to interfere in what is a natural reaction to this health crisis. The Fed can lower its interest rate to zero and it's still not going to change consumer demand.
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The Almighty Market reacts with whatever 'U.S.' news nowadays... even if China's workforce was already hit front face almost a month ago... and is recovering now... it's perhaps time to learn to react to real threats like the Climate changes unfolding worldwide, but well, still not yet patented a 'U.S.' News.
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Most of this drop is driven by investors who play the short game, not those focused on long-term business fundamentals. Keep an eye on owner-operators such as Berkshire Hathaway...are they suddenly divesting themselves of portfolio investments with exposure to world markets? I doubt it.
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"In a statement aimed at calming investors, the Fed signaled a willingness to cut rates if the outbreak worsens."
Interest rates don't have anywhere left to go. They are already close to zero. Oh and nobody thinks this administration is up to the job, will tell us the truth, will act in accord with the science, or will put the wellbeing of the nation first. Otherwise, it's "just a cold" and "all is well"--as what's his name said.
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The economy has been flashing warnings for a while...but because the stock market has been on a sugar high, many folks have ignored the warnings. Wage increases have largely been due to blue state minimum wage increases. Many new jobs are gig jobs, lower paying, little security, few if any benefits. Manufacturing is down, farms were hit hard by the trade war..all we needed was a little push to dump us into correction. And..here we are. Bye Donald.
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This crisis has nothing to do with liquidity or the cost of finance. Since when has the Feds job been to prop up the stock market. Stocks are at the same level they were in September. We are already at historically Low interest rates. There is no case whatsoever for interest rate cuts at this point.
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This seems like it will be a relatively short-lived bump, mostly of concern to Wall St. traders who are after the quick buck. Long term investors should be okay, it seems to be. As the virus and the panic dissipate, the market would typically rise back up again. But this shock may expose some fundamental weaknesses that turn this into a true recession. It will be interesting to see how robust the economy really is.
So the Fed wants to cut interest rates again? For whom? The big banks that would borrow from the Fed and in turn lend to big business?
They're all sitting on more cash than they know what to do with now; how money still have stocks outstanding to buy back? And heaven forbid they should raise wages to the lowest paid employees, maybe hire a few more on. Interest rstes to banks are so low no the Fed would almost have to go negative--pay the big borrowers to take the money. And you know who winds up paying for it in the end.
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We have so little manufacturing left of medications and medical supplies that an invocation of the Defense Production Act would do little good. We are almost completely dependent on China for nearly all these items, along with many other items including many agricultural chemicals and medications. It is simply cheaper to manufacture there, but when we most need production, Chinese factories, if they are in operation, are supplying China first, and we are out of luck. Despite the extremely optimistic pronouncements of the Chinese Communist Party, not much industry there is at full operating capacity. If China does not get medication, medical supplies and other chemicals, particularly agricultural, we will be up the creek without a paddle, and it's not our creek. Deindustrialization of the US economy may end up causing us immense suffering, and those who promoted it may have to answer for much. Good luck to us all.
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Before the Coronavirus became a recent and major factor I expected a crisis coming. A hair-trigger. I have seen this before. Nothing Trump has done has aided long term growth. The tax cuts didn't trickle down so the tax cuts sugar high predictably is crashing now.
This is a markets, health, trust, trade, productivity, climate... defense crisis. Everything is uncertain. We don't have trusted leadership. The US was a leader. No more.
I remember the S&L crisis, the Dot-Com bubble, The 2008 Housing Crisis, all the wars since Vietnam, etc. None of them were as multi-complex with far-reaching ripple/domino effects, that threaten us this much. We won't be able to calculate the losses for years.
This Trump hyperbolic economy could require decades to recover from. I trust Liz Warren most to set us back on a positive overall path.
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It's easy to misinterpret stock market numbers. Imagine you were smart enough on Dec 30th, 2019 to realize the first COVID reports were the beginning of a pandemic. So you sold all your stock. Pretty gutsy decision-- until last week the market kept rising and you would feel like a fool. But then it dropped. The S&P is down 7.5% from that event, and you have "lost" (Ignoring trading costs and taxes) 7.5%. No one can time market peaks, but you can act on real historical behavior. So the market is slightly down from what was arguable a recent high based on irrational economic enthusiasm. If the market were perfect, it would have priced Covid-19 in on January 1, and would not have kept rising until last week.
Similarly, the world-wide stock markets did not "lose" $5T. It's only a loss when people sell. The US stock market isn't worth $40T either. That figure multiplies stock price times total number of outstanding shares. But who would buy the entire market"? Any sale would tank prices, and its actual value is much less.
In other words, it is wrong, in aggregate, to think of your stock as a coupon redeemable in cash. Rather, it is a mutual aid society. The market turns productivity growth in the economy into stock, which those of us who participate in this mutual aid society agree to distribute, providing not too many people rush the bank.
We cannot withdraw more than the amount generated by real growth. Higher levels are a mirage, and should not be mourned.
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Excellent comment.
The emperor has been dressed in paper napkins. The word from financial analysts, economists, and historians, has been that an economic correction was overdue. From Dalio to Wolff, the message has been clear: prepare for a major correction in the world economy.
Covid-19 has done wonders for teaching people about the incompetence of leadership in Washington, medicine and science, and the world economy. He who stoked so much political turmoil as a smokescreen to enact his business-friendly legislation now gets to reap the rewards. It was lovely to see him back from India, looking too haggard to sell his usual lies. I cannot thank our microscopic friend enough for giving him that Nero moment.
Trump would have done well to have read books, he might have met "Wang Lung" of "The Good Earth" fame and known that failure follows success and that famine can follow times of plenty. Had we had real leadership at the top we would have prepared for the current turmoil.
On the first week of December 2019, two college dropouts were discussing healthcare and worst-case scenarios. They predicted that undermining health services, leadership, and medical research would lead to an epidemic. I was one a participant. How many times have politicians and analysts said "his lies will undermine his ability to lead during a crisis?" Over, and over, and over again they voiced that his crisis was coming, well here it is. Mr. Trump, please read "The Good Earth."
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@Marcos Mota loved The Good Earth and the lessons in Pearl Buck's book. I'm fairly sure that reading comprehension is beyond the president's abilities.
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Does Trump know how to read? He might have to start with Green eggs and ham.
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President Trump is holding a rally in South Carolina and as usual the crowds are huge. They are not blaming him for the coronavirus or the fall of the stock market. They know he is not responsible for either and feel confident that he will deal with this responsibly and in a timely manner. They love him and his popularity only seems to grow. He is surely set to win in November.
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Excuse me, but Trump claims responsibility for the stock market up. Therefore, he can’t dodge responsibility for it tanking. That’s how logic works.
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He is responsible to be a leader. Not do a blame and cry rally.
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@KMW Trump's beer-infused monster rallies are a breeding ground of germs. Trump has a glass wall between him and his exposure to a pandemic audience.
200 people could become carriers or sick or die at each Trump rally.
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Reelection is playing out right before our eyes--As the economy goes, so goes Trump.
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I’m in my early 50s, on the edge of boomer/genX. Young kid (started late). I do project work and was badly affected during the last downturn. Have little savings due to poor decisions while young. Got my act together, got a masters, and thought I was in good shape until 2008 recession hit. I was able to buy a house mid way through but lost my job just 9 months before my son was born. It was my first lesson in why we needed Obamacare then, and universal coverage now. Neither my wife nor I could buy health insurance and we did not qualify for Medicare. We couldn’t get insurance because our unborn kid was too much of a risk as he would have to be covered at birth. We asked if we could buy into Medicare and answer was no. We lucked out and found a hospital with a plan for foreigners to give birth that we could barely afford, so did it planning to pay with credit cards. Dr was amazing and even offered to bill lab tests that were priced to the us, the uninsured at $800; his price, about $150. Then Obamacare kicked in just before my son was born. Immediately put my wife on insurance and I bought into a good plan. It even covered a portion of our costs incurred and some of the hospital plan. We lucked out, I got a good job a couple years later, paid off student loans. This was my first hard lesson in universal coverage 101. Now COVID is the second. We have tough decisions to make as a country. I’ll give Bernie my vote again) and see if he can knock some sense into us.
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Those that are predicting this pandemic as a catalyst for a moving production away from China will likely be surprised. If anything this shows that the world is too interconnected now to pull back. Whether your production is in China or Vietnam or Mexico you will still be affected, just a matter of when.
Also the Chinese government is not responsible for what goes on outside it’s borders. Whether China has the virus under control will soon be apparent as people get back to work. It took China a month to realize the severity of the issue and lock down Wuhan. Let’s see how other countries deal with it now, can start the time now.
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Somehow this is the payback for years of outsourcing just about all of our manufacture to China. The lure of quick profits and minimal labor standards, this is the poetic justice payback. It’s a tragedy, but it had to happen eventually, just like universal healthcare will have to happen at some point.
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Clearly some stereotyping going on here. What on earth makes you assume that a pandemic could not originate in the United States? Shutting ourselves off from China would not make us safer.
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Yep. The 1918 flu originated in the USA
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Coronavirus - the trump correction. The fed lowered rates with an already juiced up economy just to placate trump. Now, they can't go much lower, or they will be paying people to take out loans. Although I don't have a masters in economics that doesn't seem to work out well for banks or business in the long term. The tax cuts didn't do diddly for the economy. One can only milk a cow for so long.
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One gross misperception is Corona virus is less or more fatal than Flu?
This question and its answers doesn't help anything.
We have flu and it is going to kill what is known and plus we have Corona virus which kills 50.000 less or more people doesn't change those dying people are not died a from flu at the same time
This adds up, you have one more contagion. You do not have effective vaccine etc.
Who cares corona virus kills less people than flu !!!
it is irrelevant.
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TheraP,
You say President Trump is more dangerous than the coronavirus? Tell that to someone who has contracted the disease or died in China. They would prefer President Trump any day. It is only the Trump haters who say something like this.
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@KMW - Trump isn't preferable to anything, even death. We are in the midst of a death to our democracy - this affects an entire country, not just isolated individuals. And as Corona virus threatens, you can be certain that Trump and his lies and his undoing of every safety measure that was ever in place to fight this, will ensure more deaths, not less. Don't fool yourself about what a plague Trump is to everyone.
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@KMW KMW is right. If you tell that to someone who died in China, you probably won't get an answer.
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I don’t get how lowering rates will help spur business. The supply chain is in ruins. Customer demand will be going way down as people huddle at home.
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Impeached and presiding over the worst financial downturn since W’s disaster. SO much winning!
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@Feste He did say you would get sick of all the winning, well perhaps for once he was telling the truth.
When the next pandemic comes (and it will), do Americans want to be standing behind 1.4 billion Chinese citizens waiting for a mask and some antibiotics? We should have been already prepared for this one, instead of wasting time on partisan politics.
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@J House Antibiotics don't help with viruses and most of the masks don't either...
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@J House There is not as much profit in medical masks as in military sales, so you will keep feeding the military industrial complex.
@Jo Marin
Who said it would be a virus?
Trump wanted to take credit for the strong economy that was handed to him. So Trump gets to take credit for the economy he is destroying through his own incompetence. Fair is fair.
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Remember, Ross Wilbur US Secretary of Commerce to Trump once said at the covid-19 outbreak in China, " The coronavirus infection in China, it is good business for America here ". Whether you like it or not, we are living in an interconnected globalized economy. The economic impact to one part of the world will definitely affect others and so are emerging infectious disease and climate change.
This is the kind of short sighted, ignorant best people Trump surrounded himself with and this is just a mere reflection who Trump is.
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@SK
Ross Wilbur is not jut short-sighted and ignorant, but an evil man who would rejoice at the death of thousands, because he thinks it would make him and his buddies richer.
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I really think we need to get a grip. The panic mongering headline is badly misleading. The stock market has stabilized. Yes profits will be flat this year. The s/p has or will shortly bottom at 28-2900. It will be back to 32-3300 by years end.
There will be economic impacts of the virus, but they will be limited. Profits will be flat this year. They won't tank and they won't go up, flat.
" The only thing we have to fear (from the economic standpoint) is fear itself"
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As someone working in healthcare for 25 years, there are some ridiculous comments on this site. The Covid-19 virus will pass relatively quickly now considering its under control in China and the number of cases globally actually declined. Some in the media and some on Wall Street are making a fortune off of pushing this as a large global crisis but in my view this is all about making money quick and I expect this is going to be a big nothing burger in a few weeks time. Watch and see folks.
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@Independent you might be right.
If you're not though, a lot of us "folks" will be really sorry we took your advice to do nothing more than ''watch and see.''
Something was bound to happen to curtail the propping up of this economy under this administration. Admittedly, I thought the catalyst would be the election of a Democrat so they can take the blame for Trump's inept handling of the economy. The world moves in mysterious ways. Maybe G-- wants a vote.
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@Morgan G? Gillebrand?
I wasn't old enough to comprehend the evil of Joe McCarthy while he was wreaking havoc and ruining American lives. So I couldn't appreciate his crash-and-burn, alcoholic end. I am fully aware of President Trump's downfall. Despite terrible physical suffering by hundreds and soon thousands of very sick people and despite economic hardship from the stock market crash, I welcome Trump's political demise.
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@Jim Steinberg I certainly remember joe....and all his backers, who chose later never to have backed him at all. 20 years from now we'll hear much the same from today's Trumpers.
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@kenneth You're right about the political parasites, but the average Joe and Joanna will love him until they die.
The Fed cannot save us from the Corona virus, but the Public Health Services can. If it still functions.
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Oh there went that Trump magic, like it isn't his fault! He's forever claiming he's the all knowing OZ , but all along it was the economic recovery begun under Obama and Trump's going get his comeuppance in spades. What has Trump done to better US healthcare except to cut, cut and cut it some more and here we are! It's Trump's fault, he's the dude in charge, not Obama!
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I’m curious why an unused air force base in Alabama was immediately taken off as an evacuation sight, but the great state of CA seems to be taking more than the federal employees can even handle, as hard as they are trying. Watch out NYC. Every state that has the facilities, including red ones, should be utilized in this epidemic that scientists and epidemiologists are now barred from commenting on without prior permission from, of all the least scientific people in the country, Father Pence. Welcome to Wuhan, USA.
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IT all started when the Dot.com bubble burst. GWB and and his swashbuckling Republicans raised the market with subprime loans, derivatives and deceptions that crashed in 2007. Since then the world economy has been on life support , and still is. Interest rates have been zero to negative in Europe, and barely above zero here. A world economy that is still on life support has virtually no reserve. The stock market has been dubbed the new saving account for most people, unfortunately it’s just a Ponzi scheme , and the crazy Republicans are once again duping the public into buying into it because that’s how Ponzi schemes work.
The trick for Trump is to keep this scheme alive till at least his election , to help him win. After that he wouldn’t care less.
My advice : take the money and run !!
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I am sick and tired if hearing
"Just wait the market will come back over time.
I am hoping to retire soon.
I don't have time.
I don't buy green bananas.
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@RABNDE You do indeed have time unless you were planning to die immediately upon retirement. If you are in your 60s, you have to assume that you will have a 20-30 year retirement. As for what to do in a dip? You might have to delay for a bit if you don't have a fund set aside for just this contingency.
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@RABNDE Sorry, man. I'm even older than you. But my broker insists the market won't take that into account. So unfair, isn't it ......
I get a kick out of this type of fear mongering news. Yeah, I'm fully aware of what's going on with the covid-19 virus and its effects. What I don't get is the way the NY Times and other news outlets, in coordination with wall street throw out numbers such as these, knowing full well that a majority of people don't have a clue about them. A majority of people don't even have healthcare, don't see how many of them have stocks or what's going on, or even care about wall street; I trust them just as much as your current and past governments going back to Reagan. History will show once again that the rich will get richer no matter what happens. They can't fail but should they do, they'll receive truckloads of cash. And guess who will pay for it?
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It is becoming clear that reliance on a supply chain of critical drugs and medical supplies from China is a threat to U.S. national security. Decades in the making, it is past time to strategically stockpile and domestically manufacture those items needed for the next pandemic.
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It would be so comforting to have a competent president in the White House at times like these. Unfortunately we’re stuck with a self-proclaimed ‘stable genius’ who is anything but. Count on him to make the worst decisions, appoint the least-qualified people, and place America and the world in greater peril. We were warned.
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Trump is always taking credit for activity on Wall Street. Has he taken credit for this latest mess?
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What are they saying over in Fox News Land? Teflon Don's immunity comes from the fact that his base accepts as fact all the distortion they hear being broadcast. However, if his base begins to panic over legitimate concerns for their health safety and the inability of government entities and the healthcare system to provide basic services, then it is possible that GOP representatives in Congress may actually begin to hear angry complaints from their constituents that spook them into growing a spine. Nothing will happen to "the Occupant" in the White House without someone other than Mitt, Susan, or Lisa speaking up.
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1. The tax cuts will never pass the House.
2. An interest-rare cut will have limited impact, because the downturn is an assessment of likely business contraction. Few will want to invest into that long-run downturn, at least until the epidemic is better understood and largely under control.
Besides, in this environment, cash—not further debt—is king.
3. Q. If we can’t trust Trump and Don Jr. with our epidemic, who’s left?
A. The name is November. The first name is immaterial.
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Coronavirus shows how risky globalism is, it will take years to unwind it. Robotics and automation will become ubiquitous, as more and more businesses move to local, customized goods and services. The United States is positioned well for this transition, but we will need immigrants, rust belt workers, infrastructure and renewable energy to do it - everything Trump undermined! Of course Sanders will beat him, as his house of cards collapses and yelling at the Fed does nothing.
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@Gary
Bernie Sander’s election would be another Black Swan event, roiling markets even further. The prospect of tens of trillions of additional taxes on capital, along with many tens if trillions more in added government debt, would shake Wall St. to its core.
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@J House
Do you mean the government taking back some of the enormous largesse the recent tax cut bestowed on Corps and the 1%? If that shakes them so, they've been living large too long, they've grown fat and lazy, much like their Dear Leader.
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And maybe your scenario is what’s needed to get back to balancing the US’s pocketbook. Just thinking out loud here.
The feds cutting interest rates seems more like a bribe to boost the stock market than a solution to current economic conditions. Or maybe it's just a pander to Trump.
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Great. Cut rates from what? They're already stupendously low because Trump shamed the Fed into keeping them low despite the economic recovery, basically taking away our best tool to deal with a downturn. So much for the GOP's supposed fiscal responsibility.
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It took three years, but Trump was finally able to tank the markets. That’s something Obama was never able to do.
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Obama did a good try in 2015.
If the Fed cuts rates any more, they'll be paying people to borrow money.
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The market was already primed for a correction because it was over inflated. Covid 19 popped the balloon quickly instead of a slow air leak.
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Newton’s First Law—Inertia
A balloon that gets popped....tends to stay popped.
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Business investment has been falling for months. U.S. debt is climbing fast. A cut in interest rates will spur nothing. The bill has come due, and the American government has no money to pay it.
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And cash—not debt—is now king.
Don't worry, the middle and lower class do... Apparently.
As an investor I am simply amazed anyone believes the market is anywhere near its lows. The fall is based on almost no news, the question in my mind is -- what happens when the really bad news, like 10,000 cases somewhere other than China is reported?
Will we finally just suffer it, as we do other incurable diseases? Because, short of a vaccine, the only end is -- we all are exposed, some just feel sick, and some of us die.
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@fred
Yes, I read somewhere reputable today that the stocks could well fall another 20-30% over this next year.
I feel as you do. We’re not at the bottom of this yet.
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Now almost 100,000 cases, 3,000 deaths, 54 countries (many with no idea where it came from), viable vaccine and quantities 1 year off.
Investment? What good was favorable interest rates on the Titanic?
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Oh for heaven's sake, it was the Fed capitulation to DJT and cronies that reeled back today's dive?
I wondered what happened between 2 & 3 pm CST ... when I had last looked and we were in -775 - 800+ territory. And closed at a pretty rosy looking - 357.
Yet again, we are being led around and all things are NOT transparent. The Fed doesn't have that much room to cut, and I hope people figure that out.
Let it happen. Let's get a clear look at the economy for what it is, not what 45 wants it to look like.
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You can starve a cold.
But lying, and an interest-rate cut, never starved an epidemic.
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Isn’t Jerome Powell a political appointee there to act upon Trump’s political instructions?
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Pardon me, but many people are posting comments assuming that the numbers regarding the infection and mortality rate are accurate. Are you sure about that? Even half sure?
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@Michael Anthony inaccurate numbers, whether they skew high or low when it comes to mortality rates, are also frightening to many. It’s the uncertainty that makes people anxious, the lack of solid info.
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The only “sure” thing—based on current early trends, 3,000 dead and 8,000 now in serious or critical condition—is far more than 10,000 will die by the summer.
Trump’s lies won’t fool the mourners.
Fed can't do nothing ti heal the investors,s emotional reaction.
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I’d like to see the story about how some stocks & ETFs rebounded on Friday, please. While the S&P 500 posted a -0.82% loss for the day (a relatively good day, taking the past week into account), my holdings are up +0.33% today, mostly due to BRK.B, MGK, and BNDX.
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Note the correlation with the rise of the deficit, and the last two major market crashes and presidential leadership (e.g. the GOP have been in charge).
The real GOP moderately, non-tea-party fiscal conservative wings in the U.S. have been idle, especially since Clinton's time, banished to the proverbial isle of Elba since 2000.
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It is fascinating how much some people care about money more than they do about the safety and welfare of others. Even the CEO of Apple is saying how “things have stabilized in China” when they haven’t. There is (now obviously) a massive disinformation going on in China and now the USA regarding the number of infections and the mortality rate. You know there are serious problems when you need to trust the airlines to stop flights to South Korea and Japan and out government is silent. All Trump seems to care about is how this reflects on him as opposed to the safety and welfare of Americans and others throughout the world.
Face it, do your own research but it appears that the numbers that should be reported from China and the USA should be triple what is currently published. The government(s) allude it is to stem panic but all we hear about is “how do we save the economy?” One thing I am panicked about is our leadership and our skewed values as a society.
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While you have a right to distrust leadership, cancellation of flights by airlines is through our government regulatory agencies. Trust me they are not cancelling flights as a public service while losing millions in revenue. It seems your political disdain has colored your perception of reality.
The other reality is the death rate.
The death rate is actually lower than reported because there are far more undocumented infection cases. It easy to diagnose a dead body. It’s harder to know for sure if someone has the corona virus. Therefore it is possible that this is no more serious than the seasonal flu, which by the way has already claimed orders of magnitude more lives than this COVID-19 virus.
The problem with a proposed rate cut is that it may be repeating the same mistakes of the late 70s.
With the supply chain disruptions adding to tariff woes, COVID19 is imposing a supply side shock, in which case we will see a contraction with simultaneous inflation, in other words, stagflation.
Lowering the interest rate will end up increasing demand and inflation, and we would see interest rates being forced up to compensate anyway. It won't be long before demands for wage and input price increases will offset any gains.
The US is in a good position right now with high employment, but the question becomes how much unemployment can the labor market tolerate, and how much inflation can the markets bear before wages and input prices are pushed up?
Lowering the bank rate is not going to get the job done from here. The current Fed board needs to take a lesson from Volcker and keep their powder dry to try and deal with inflation when it does appear. If $50 for a pair of Purell bottles of hand sanitizer is any indication, inflation should be right around the corner.
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Check on Kudlow he was saying the week before the 08 crash things were fine. Smarten up every ten years the greed on Wall Street goes off the cliff and then Kudlow and your broker tell you a great time to buy. They get away with it since in the great capitalist system the rich are always protected. You know the ones that argue and give speeches how the government should not interfer except when it hurts us rich people. You know the ones like the King that attack it, but what are these bailouts for the farmers and most of that money went offshore or for the Kig and his friends. Oh, the crash his base and everyone else will take the hit and lose their houses. Have friends that are still waiting to get some pension money from Nortel, but the senior executives walked away with about $70 million. Welfare for the rich is fine, when for everyone else it is socialism. Catch on capitalism is one corrupt giant PONZI scam. The cracks were there in the US economy, but the virus is the excuse to point fingers the other way. Like in the Wizard of Oz when the curtain is pulled away, don't look behind the curtain. As Einstein said "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." Jim Trautman
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The coronavirus has wiped five TRILLION dollars off world wide stocks!
Trump's thoughts and prayers won't get rid of this virus; Scientists will; and Trump cut back of this area of research when he was elected and gave the richest 1% a tax cut.
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Actually the market in China is up 5 percent for 2020.
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@Rock Winchester That doesn't fool anyone! Probably artificially propped up by the Chinese government pouring money into it to artificially inflate the stock price.
Fox just announced a poll, trump loses to all democrats. Not all viewers of fox are obtuse.
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it's a national poll, not a poll of Fox viewers
Well, we just had to gut CDC funding last year by 15 billion dollars, get rid of the pandemic response team, and slash global pandemic funding by 15%. Tax cuts for billionaires were a higher priority. Science was always bogus to begin with...what good has science ever done for us?
^Submit post instantly to worldwide communications network, using handheld electronic computer device.
5
How is Larry Kudlow actually qualified as the White House Chief Economic Advisor?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Kudlow
He has a degree in history, from Princeton, but no degree, or advanced training in economics that I can find. And, yes, he has worked for major brokerage houses and he has been a media personality.
But where has he been actually trained in economics?
OJT perhaps?
Influential political contacts do not qualify as advanced education.
Alas, he just seems to be an articulate high profile, but untrained, talking head well known in conservative media.
11
@Meta1
Kudlown has a BA in history from Rochester Univ. ... he dropped out of Princeton after a semester.
1
@Meta1
"You gotta mighty fine mouth"...Trump to Kudlow...or was it a line from Deliverance?
It is reported that The Donald called in Pence this morning and told the VP: "Enough of this Corona - whatever" I'm going to Mar-E-Largo to play golf for the weekend. I've had enough!
10
How do we know how many cases exist in America if Trump is suppressing testing?
10
President Trump is having a rally tonight at the Coliseum in North Charleston, so all you recent arrivals from Korea, China, and north Italy show up to support his wonderful handling of the Corona virus plague. Bring plenty of dollar bills to stuff into the collection boxes. Cheers to DJT.
8
A fairly long, scrolling perusal of comments here gleans the assurance that few if any here prefer knowledge of the markets of the corona virus as much as they just love to hate on our President. Refute this administration's weeks-old and easily searchable on actual news sites actions to protect all of us as you wish, if you're politically weaponizing either the market drop or the virus please drop back and think about how much you're helping your Democrat party's candidates, or your own conscience.
Thank your lucky stars that the 19000 market in 2016 when our President was elected was the starting place for this unknown threat. Our President's robust market is shielding even the haters; consider that as you snipe away.
2
“weaponizing the virus”? - You mean the way that your POTUS weaponized the Ebola outbreak in 2014 in bitterly attacking our President Obama’s response?
Trump called our President Obama a “psycho” that year.
Trump has told more than 17,000 lies since taking office. His lack of real leadership is magnified by a real crisis like Covad19 infections moving across the world and into the United States. Frankly, there is no world leader doing a worse job in calming people's fears than Trump and his minions. I am waiting for the first person at Mar-a-Lago or the White House to come down with a fever, and then watch Trump run and hide to save himself while everyone else can "go fish".
12
Wait. You mean the stock markets really are attached to Donald Trump's political fortunes?
Well, I'll be....
1
Coronavirus causes people to stop drinking Corona beer. That’s why this country is in chaos, because people like that are allowed to vote.
13
@Phaque Di’Aronald Jay Chump I wish I could recommend this comment a billion times.
So many of these financial headlines tell us the Dow plunged by N thousand points. Wow that's a lot of points! I would imagine that these breathless headline writers only own stocks that have small share prices because these can't drop by N thousand points. ;)
Time to pay the check, Trump. Herbert Hoover paid his check in 1932.
3
Media takedown of the markets!
Obviously...
"May you live in interesting times."
2
So, what’s Mister I Alone Can Fix It doing besides rage-watching FOX News, and telling us how great a great a job he’s doing?
4
Am I the only who wonders if the market's massive surge at the end of the trading day was caused by the intervention of the Fed's "Plunge Protection Team"?
In another article, the Times is now reporting: 'Federal Reserve Chair Jerome H. Powell, in an attempt to soothe jittery investors, issued a short statement Friday afternoon reaffirming that the central bank will use its tools and “act as appropriate to support the economy.”'
During the last forty-five minutes of trading the S&P 500 surged from being down about 2.5% to close down only 0.82%. If this was a result of market interventions by the Plunge Protection Team, it raises interesting questions about using the power of the Federal Reserve to inflate stock market valuations in a time of financial uncertainty.
I suppose we'll see on Monday if the euphoria is sustained. At the moment, I am guessing it's better than even odds that there will be more bad news by then.
16:34 ET
5
Stop cutting interest rates!
The debt is so high we can't afford a penny more and we'll need to be able to cut interest rates to deal--lamely-- with the Republican recession.
10
The death rate was 2.4% Wuhan and lower in other places. So far, no children have died, and the vast majority of deaths have been people over 80 and the infirmed. So forgive me if I take advantage of low airfares to go somewhere nice. I will also be purchasing some of the shares everyone seems to want to be rid of.
3
Fly away & buy away...let us know how it turns out.
1
When I saw "2008" I flashed on President Obama and, though hampered by the GOP with stinginess, was able to navigate rhe crisis with patience and leadership. The best his replacement can do is broadcast misinformation and attempt to blame the blameless.
Irony - Obama comes in fixing a GOP caused recession and Trump goes out on a Trump caused recession
22
I think everyone is generally overreacting, but that's probably a good thing at this stage. As Trump needs to get it through his thick head that this is a real problem. Because unlike China, we can't easily quarantine whole cities. For a while, the world was fortunate this was contained in communist China. But now that it is in Italy and California and Nigeria, it's not so easily controllable.
Do I think it will lead to a prolonged global recession? The mortality rate for those in midlife is 0.2-0.4%. So no. Life will go on.
If I was 80 years old, would I worry? Why yes in fact I would as mortality rates for that age range appear to be closer to 15% (in China at least).
Hopefully cooler heads prevail in the end, but for now we need to prepare for an emergency to isolate and treat the ill and mitigate an acceleration of transmissions. If we need to subsidize the development of a vaccine or treatments, then let's do that now in hopes of having ready by next winter.
6
I'm in France at the moment, where the coronavirus count is doubling (at least) by the day – there's considerable anxiety.
Isn't it just like the US 'culture of wealth' to be more concerned about $ than health. OK, it's crossed my mind to buy some 'gold rush' stocks, but guess what, you still can't take it with you.
15
Imagine if the fed had caved to donnie's pressure and kept rates low? They'd have no way to compensate for donnie's incompetent handling of the outbreak.
1
Lowering interest rates to calm the markets is like prescribing cough medicine for a person with pneumonia without prescribing an antibiotic. It may ease the symptoms for a very short period but the cause of the disease is still there and getting worse.
17
Framing the title of the article is a bit misleading. Yes, the market is down this week but it is just a blip looking at the market performance over the last few months and over the last 1-10 years. The market is down where it was at in mid-October. In March 2009 during the financial crisis, the S&P was at about 768. Today, the the S&P closed at 2,978. Yes, that down from Momday’s 3,257 but hardly at 2008 levels. The headline could easily be misread to mean we all the wealth that was created since the 2008 financial crisis was erased. The only people that care about a blip like this are short-term investors. Too bad for them: you get what you get when you gamble vs. investing for the long run.
5
You act you know we are at the bottom of the drop. Don’t be so sure because the inventories are still there. Wait another month and watch what happens to prices of goods. Then, we’ll see this drip really start to spiral down...
Programmed traders are simply cashing out on their gains from historic highs.
If Mike Pence doesn't totally boot it, things will be fine.
Mike Pence can avoid booting it by ceding all the major decisions to the professionals, and not play Trump, who predictably would say: "I know more about the Coronavirus than any of these so-called experts. That's why I appointed Mike Pence to direct the US response effort."
1
As Trump ‘owned’ to being responsible for the markets being in record territory I wonder who he’ll find to fault for their current ‘correction’?
9
Fellow citizens, this is the golden rule of business cycles in the United States: If a Republican president is in office, there will be a recession or depression during his term.
Forget the nonsense promises, your jobs and savings are at serious risk in 2020.
33
My favorite law is the "Law of Unintended Consequences." George Carlin would love this. The Whole World invested in the cheap, virtually slave labor of China for their supply-side economics and here we are now.
11
When as far as you can see over the horizon is disruption of economies, institutions and social cohesion, it is not the time to go to a casino—particularly one where the games are rigged to favor the house.
4
I don't understand why anyone would sell their stocks? My understanding is that it's just best to hold on and wait; eventually things will trend in the upward direction. So that's what I'm doing, for what it's worth.
7
People, like me, are selling because it is obvious what is going on in the real economy and that looks like the tip of the iceberg.
1
Here's a proposal for why Coronavirus is having such an effect on the world economy.
Ebola originated in Western Africa. So indeed we could "shut them down" without much of an effect on our economies.
Indeed, the "normal" flu kills many people every year.
That is already "built into" our economy.
But Trump says "gee ... only [??] Americans have the disease." Well, maybe there are some here and there. But hey, it isn't so bad and I think we'll get better soon. And ... ?
The reality is that China has basically shut down their economy. Cruise bookings are down 95%. Business meetings and conventions and flights are down.
Basic manufacturing for supply for final production is a major concern.
Despite what FOX [and hence Trump's tweets] and others say, this news is not just an attack on Trump. It is FACTS. Of course, "we" could control our media just as a lot of other countries do. I bet people in North Korea know very little about this.
14
For those of you with lots of money:
Your money won't be safe if you don't support providing good healthcare for the working masses and don't support protection of the biosphere.
34
The way the economy is tanking, with all supply chains disrupted shows me one thing for the U. S.. Don't let other countries manufacture everything for you. Try to manufacture at home. As for the virus, this is a world wide crisis and the world needs to tackle it together. Share all medicines, vaccines and the like.
12
When will Trump declare the coronavirus a natural disaster or act of war from Communist China, thus allowing health insurance companies to deny claims for hospital and outpatient care for any illness directly or indirectly related to the coronavirus?
3
Well he is a ‘brilliant businessman’ who ‘god sent to us’.
Let’s see the goods.
Also, science-deniers to the back of the line for the vaccine (which will not be available for at least a year).
11
If say even 15 percent of trump supporters believe him over the CDC, we are talking about a larger percent of the population than anti-vac persons. We already saw the effects of that with measle outbreaks last year. What could happen with something like Covid 19?
1
the only thing that will trump the reality of capitalism being "red in tooth and claw" is Mother Nature [no relation to Mother Pence].
Mother Nature invented "red in tooth and claw" and Mother Nature does not negotiate.
7
Just a few weeks ago Trump’s Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross was gloating that the coronavirus epidemic in China will benefit the Us by “bringing back jobs.”
Our government is headed by short-sighted fools. If the back of the ship were taking on water, they would gloat that their seats in the front are worth more now.
12
This attribution of the market decline to a virus is a smoke screen. What big money sees is that the administration is incompetent to deal with just about anything, and they are jumping ship. They'll be back when the Fed jumps in to save Thunder Trump.
3
I'm ticked to find the headline is about something that affects the comfortably well off but reporting on unmet needs for social and healthcare around the country (and world) are minimized especially as it relates to covid19.
4
Did I hear correctly this morning: the U.S. only has 200 coronavirus test kits on hand?
4
Yes you did. And it was on NPR I believe. Seeing as I also "heard" it, and that is the only news I "listen" to.
1
My worry, amongst many others, is that Trump, who doesn't have the sense to cancel his monster rallies and risk infection in a large germy beer-infused arena, that he will take (more) disastrous measures to hyperinflate the markets to get reelected. Short-term.
What will he do in his addled state next?
5
Okay, so I’m not an economist but I understand this much. Shoring up the market by cutting the interest rate is a time-tested technique to halt a slide due to a lack of confidence caused by investors’ perceptions. This situation is a different kettle of fish. Here we have the reality of closed factories and blockaded markets. No product to sell and no customers to buy is a true disaster, not just the perception of a disaster. What we need is attention to programs for creating vaccines. Everything else is just window dressing.
6
Forget the stock market. Forget Wall Street. Forget the Fed. You don't need to know a single thing about the bond market or yield curves to know which way the wind is blowing.
"Oil prices are also sharply lower."
That's the leading indicator that definitely signals trouble. Businesses require energy in order to produce. A drop in commercial demand for energy means businesses are planning to produce less in the very near future.
Six months max. I'm guessing three or four.
6
Yes. Indicates huge fall in demand. And that is with a falling dollar, so oil actually fell more than it looks.
4
Uncertainty is driving this decline. It’s a new virus and the empirical data that can provide reliable forecasting is not available but it will be. So policy makers are dealing with uncertainties. The smart political leaders will rely upon experienced experts to manage the flow of information and keep it in context with the facts and not speculations. Prepare for worst case scenarios and be frank with the public. That will stop the panic although there will be concerns and a retreat from optimism.
1
This is probably grim to say but the Coronavirus might be the perfect foil to Trump.
The virus and it's effects on the economy are impossible to cover up and the disease can't be bullied, threatened, sued, tariffed or fired, thus making it all but impervious to Trump's usual methods of getting his way.
On top of all that the only way to really stop a virus is hard work and science. Two things Trump doesn't believe in.
19
There was a massive buying panic in the last 15 minutes of cash trading. The S&P cash jumped 74 points, the futures jumped 90 points. The NASDAQ cash closed positive on the day.
It's worth remembering the DJIA has gone up almost 23,000 points in the last 11 years. (3/9/09 close 6547.05) Sooner or later, we're due for a major bear market. The Nikkei (approximately) went from 5,000 to 39,000 and back to 5,000. History says we will not be immune.
Short term there is always a snap back rally. Even after the 1929 crash in which the market lost 50% of its value in 2 months, the market rallied 37% into April 1930 before the real carnage (-85%) began.
Whether the rally is another leg to new highs or a prelude to a significant bear market remains to be seen.
6
The important takeaway is that the fragility of our institutions and our leaders are much greater than we care to admit. I won't claim that two great civilizations, China and the US, have been brought to their knees by the twin effects of the potential of viral pandemic and frail financial markets, but those two peoples must feel weakness and decline are possibilities, even if those possibilities are remote. Seemingly forceful, powerful leaders like Xi and Trump don't seem so omnipotent, after all. The suggestion of vulnerability will always incite political opposition. Leadership by strong men is a confidence game. These may well turn out to be interesting times.
1
It's not only the stock market that has declined. I expect that significant unemployment is on the horizon; layoffs in the hotel, catering, travel, retail, and manufacturing industries. The list could be huge if we curtail our spending.
21
These are also the most vulnerable in our society, with low savings and poor healthcare generally. Very soon we could, emphasis on could, have a sled feeding cycle of more being laid off,blessing to even poorer healthcare leading to more sickness's, ad nauseum.
Money does not just disappear from the stock markets. The sellers have a lot of cash reserves from the profit taking. The buy low and sell high crowd has madeoff with the money. So basically no one has lost except those who panicked and sold at a loss. Those who have held on to their stock will live for a better day if they patiently wait. NASDAQ at the end of the day had ended up on a positive note and next week stocks will recover substantially especially those that are trying develop vaccines against Corona or antivirals against Corona.
The travel and entertainment sector will take a while to recover from the panic and the paranoia. Sectors dependent on supply chain from China will also take a hit. Healthcare sector and pharmaceutical will do well. The grocery store sector will also do well and Walmart and Costco will thrive.
7
The stock market has lost 10% because of the fears of the virus. People need to realize that it always bounces back up and not panic.
I'm in the market, and even though I'm not happy about losing value, in 3 -6 months, I imagine it will be back up. I lost out on big returns when I sold back in 2008 and stayed out too long- this time I know better.
13
@mainesummers
and again...this is the same refrain that was being sung by brokers, financial advisors and investment bankers through out the first three quarter of 2008.
the markets didn't come back to the levels of 2008 for nearly a decade.
when as far as you can see over the horizon is disruption of economies, institutions and social cohesion it is not the time to go to the casino—particularly a casino where all the games are rigged to favor the house.
5
That’s not right. The market as measured by the SP 500 regained its highs in five years. In the interim, stocks paid dividends. Selling on the dip would have been a mistake particularly since interest rates were also low.
3
@Yeah
what happened in 2008 was not a "dip" what is unfolding now is not a "dip"
we are in a full force correction of which the bottom remains to be determined.
2
Almost time to start buying again.
Just another 5-10% decline.
Significant profits to be made in about 3-4 months.
7
Greed is GOOD.
Afraid to look at my portfolio. But I'm even more fearful of trump being in office four more years. Please, please, please Vote Blue No Matter Who.
34
@Kathrine Blue won't save you. 1/2 my life we have head a Democratic president and it was just as bad. If you believe Democrats will save this country, I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.
Our culture is breaking down and it has nothing to do with any political party.
As we all should know by now, capitalism inevitably produces extreme economic instability every few years as a natural function of its grotesque operations. This is only one more bust in a continuing series of endless failures. Furthermore, the stock market primarily represents the interests of the extremely wealthy. Burn it all down.
4
"Some things torment us more than they ought; some torment us before they ought; and some torment us when they ought not to torment us at all. We are in the habit of exaggerating, or imagining, or anticipating, sorrow...
No one calls a halt on himself, when he begins to be urged ahead; nor does he regulate his alarm according to the truth. We let ourselves drift with every breeze; we are frightened at uncertainties, just as if they were certain. We observe no moderation. The slightest thing turns the scales and throws us forthwith into a panic." ~Lucius Annaeus Seneca
"Remember how long you've been putting things off and how many opportunities you've had and yet you do not use them. A limit of time is fixed for you, which if you do not use for clearing away the clouds from your mind, it will go and you will go, and the opportunity will never return.." ~Marcus Aurelius
The moral of this story is to stop wasting you time worrying about things that are not in your control. Stop trying to assign blame before the scenario has even come to pass. By all means, take reasonable precautions and live today and every day as if it's your last. False fear is way more harmful that false optimism even if both outlooks lead to the same place.
A virus that afflicts the mind is more to be feared than one that affects the body. For we are able to sense when our body is ill. When the mind is infected, it's often without our knowledge.
13
All these commenters blaming the market decline on Trump, yet just a week ago the market was a result of Obama policies. Make up your minds already. When it recovers these same people will go back to "It's Obama." I also never knew that Trumps influence is global as all markets across the world are declining as well.
3
@peversma I think the point people are trying to make is that the economy has been growing for a straight decade and Trump was riding out the end of that growth period. Actually he tried to keep it alive for as long as possible by calling for rate cuts and increasing government borrowing to pay for a tax break for the wealthy, but ultimately it has faltered and Trumps actions mean there are less options to stabilise.
11
If Trump wants to take credit when it’s up, he can take responsibility when it’s down.
5
Well, if the market disruption is a short term reaction to his ineptitude in responding to this crisis, he should own it, right?
2
All that bragging about high growing stock markets he contributed nothing for, and now the short sighted politic beginns to pay back. All these government agencies cuttings are the wrong way to save money, just one of the many areas for the cuts are going to cost much more than they will save. DT just thought the drawback wasn't going to happen durring his term, how ironic it actually is. Infrastructure also will suffer,it will be even more desastrous after his term-s. This guy is mortgaging your future, I hope most americans will see it until november. Good luck
11
The Corona virus scare is not the only cause of the drop, but it was the final straw on the bubble camels back. The corona scare brought reality of this irrational market. Sadly this market correction looks a lot worse than the corrections caused by Trump's tariff pronouncements.
4
Jerusalem Post Health & Science Israeli scientists: 'In a few weeks, we will have coronavirus vaccine' Once the vaccine is developed, it will take at least 90 days to complete the regulatory process and potentially more to enter the marketplace. By MAAYAN JAFFE-HOFFMAN FEBRUARY 27, 2020 20:58
Yes, but THE STOCK MARKET WILL REBOUNCE SND SEE ABOVE. The wide spread hysteria and economic panic are much worse than the coronavirus. Mortality is between 0.4-2% dependent on the age group and mainly effects risk groups with other compromising health issues, and this is without taking in account the many cases of asymptomatic people, in which case the mortality would be similar to the common flu. Bottom line coronavirus infection though novel is not much worse than the flu. Caution is warrant but public Hysteria due to media coverage is uncalled for. Finally, I am disgusted by how many journalists and readers blame Trump for the situation or mention him in articles responses related to the disease. He did a fantastic job in a balanced sober presentation with Pence the CDC and the NIH on Wednesday.
3
I’ve seen this same post on this thread at least 3 times. It doesn’t become true with constant repetition. The fact is, our health and well being has never been his priority. It’s getting his attention now as he’s terrified that he’ll finally be held accountable for his incompetence in an election year. He should have never dismantled (out of spite) the precautions the Obama admin put into place. Now he’s scrambling and withholding information from us. It’s appalling.
54
I write as I guess a "senior" who has had pneumonia twice in her life and would rather not undergo that again.
But, please forgive me--why is this "pandemic" different from other serious flu outbreaks? I'm not in denial, I just don't know given all the press coverage where we are. I don't know the statistics --no one has accurate ones that I know of--of the ratio of feeling "fluish" to pneumonia to death in the case of COIDV-19versus other serious flus is higher in some groups. Nor do we know incubation times or how the virus "passes." All I know is that this is some new virus that appears to have surprised medical authorities.
The real pandemic, for now, is that economies and markets are collapsing because of panic--as if no one ever heard that if you have the flu, stay home from work (if you can--another story), avoid people, and *please* cough or sneeze into your sleeve and don't touch things you don't have to.
Thank you anyone who knows more . . .
5
@Lynne N. Henderson I believe one of the issues is the lack of ICU beds and the ability to care for a large number of people on ventilators. While the mortality rate may not be high, the seriousness of the disease appears to be high. My understanding is that a good number of people require significant medical assistance while ill. If we get a lot of sick people, we may not have the resources including hospital staff to care for everyone adequately. If I am incorrect, I welcome other comments.
17
@Lynne N. Henderson as I understand it, the markets are not being affected just because people are afraid of the flu. They are also fearful of the effect of business and school closings and manufacturing slowdowns on the world economy. So there are all sorts of concerns and questions causing people feel more anxious. This is making investors jittery. Plus this may not be a typical flu. There are still too many unanswered questions. For example, how are the mortality rates impacted by the a high number of Chinese men who smoke? I’m no epidemiologist so I throw that out 5here purely as an example of the types of issues still being studied. What IS known is that there is no vaccine, it impacts the elderly more than young people, etc.
Please go straight to the CDC.gov website and start reading their information about the Coronavirus. It’s very easy to understand.
4
When panic selling begins, the first money out is the last money in. I have always believed that the super low interest rates of the last decade or so forced money into equities that would have normally gone into the money market or bonds - hundreds of billions of dollars that had no business being there in the first place, thus over valuing the markets. That money in my opinion is now leaving (in a hurry), but the markets will decline further because of the very real financial consequences of a looming pandemic on a global economy. The froth of the market is going, but soon we may be cutting into bone.
7
I noticed that cruise line companies stocks rose a lot today. Maybe people are booking to flee the US.
Please , give us some credit, we’re not that gullible. This crash is not all due to a virus with a mortality rate slightly worse than the common flu. Is it a catalyst, yes, but when stocks are trading at 20x earnings, you don’t need much of a catalyst to send everyone running.
13
Fed Chair Powell issued a statement at about 2:30PM today in attempt to pump up the market before the weekend. It worked to reduce the decline for an hour or so, then failed, demonstrating that the Fed won't save the market.
5
So now we will have an answer to the question on everyone's mind, what if Trump had won in 2016? Let's see how Trump the billionaire does in a real crisis.
4
Today is a new Trump milestone.
Worst stock market crash since the Great Recession of 2008 — the final year of George W Bush presidency.
After the 2014 Ebola outbreak, the President Barack Obama set a unified means of coordinating major disease outbreaks.
But seeking to undo everything that his predecessor had done, Trump dismantled the epidemic-fighting infrastructure the Obama administration had built up at the National Security Council, NIH, CDC, and the Department of Homeland Security.
Guess what. You reap what you sow.
62
@Richard 'You reap what you sow.'
Unfortunately it will be at the cost of American lives. We all pay the price for Trump's misinformed, bitter, hack job of all Obama programs meant to help us.
4
I for one don't buy that the coronavirus is driving the markets. The American economy has been in limbo for years due to income inequality and the increased costs of living incurred upon the the poor, middle, and working class Americans. Rising costs of child care, college education, medical insurance, housing, real estate, along with menial wages that fail to keep up with inflation are the culprits. With a leader like Trump who will seek to deregulate all forms of regulation, it's only a question of when, not if.
19
The Cboe Volatility Index has risen from 14 just a week ago to above 48 as of Friday morning. The index—derived from pricing data for options on the S&P 500 index—measures the market’s expectations for volatility over the next 30 days. The surge brought the VIX to the highest level since the 2008-09 financial crisis, surpassing levels reached during the market selloffs in 2011 and 2015, as well as both corrections in 2018.
just saying.
5
I never liked Corona beer in the first place and would never buy it, but at least I have at least one brain cell to know the difference between the two.
15
Powell's lack of specificity as to which tools the Fed will use and his silence on what act the Fed will find "appropriate" to support the economy is telling.
"Federal Reserve Chair Jerome H. Powell moved to soothe investors on Friday, issuing a statement reaffirming that the central bank will use its tools and “act as appropriate to support the economy.”
1
If Mr. Trump and his team were truly taking this threat seriously, he would cancel tonight’s rally in South Carolina.
31
Who pays for these political jaunts? Is SC just a pit stop on his way to Palm Beach .... Again!
It's good to see now that the White House has taken charge the markets have stabilized.
4
According to MarketWatch, the yield on 10-year treasuries has fallen to 1.172%, an all-time low.
If we look at January inflation we find that if the volatile food and energy are removed, the reading is 2.3%. Thus the real yield on 10-year treasuries I about -1.128%.
A negative real yield means that investors receive a negative real yield when they buy government debt. An advantage is that the US government can run a trillion dollar deficit and expect it to inflate away over time.
I am not an economist. I sometimes read economists, because they have often had good ideas (consider Marx's classic, Capital, for example).
Saez and Zucman have written a recent book, "the Triumph of Injustice" which is rumored to have landed one of them a prestigious UC Berkeley office with a view of the Golden Gate Bridge. Cool!
But of course the reason is that their theories are useful to politicians of the day, Sanders and Warren.
S&Z argue that we tax labor too much, capital too little. But their book doesn't mention inflation. Are they aware that risk-free capital carries a negative real rate of return?
And the billionaires who invest in bonds with negative real yield are doing the economy a favor. Namely they're allowing us to run up trillion dollar deficits without paying now.
Unlike the models in classical mechanics, macroeconomic models have little or no predictive value.
To choose the 8% wealth tax of Sanders is taking a big gamble.
Better to select Bloomberg or Klobuchar.
4
Trumpcult 2020 will do its usual-- place the blame elsewhere --on Obama, China, unions etc. They will work hard to fill in the blanks around Trump's vague and vapid pronouncements related to possible pandemic. They will look quickly to cherry pick a historical Democratic president's inadequate response to an infectious disease (mumps?). They will rush to indignantly reassure that experts gutted from the government -- NIH, CDC foreign service-- have in any case no real expertise. They will do as they have always done and stand by their man.
22
“Mumps” ! LOL
Is this the same Larry Kudlow who was reassuring us all just before the 2008 crash that gloomy forecasters would "end up with egg on their face"? (I quote from a NYT article from that time.)
32
Our very stable genius says everything is under control, his administration is doing the most fantastic job imaginable, everything will be fine, and the virus will probably mysteriously disappear any time now. If any of that were true there should little reason for concern. So why here in Indiana, where we supposedly have no cases, is every store sold out of face masks? Oh, and congratulations to Pence, he’s the perfect choice to contain this likely pandemic. It was under his governorship that the worst outbreak of HIV cases in the history of the state occurred. His religious beliefs prevented any action to quell the spread until he did a lot of praying, and finally listened to the experts. Long after it was a crisis. But I’m sure we’ll be fine. As long as none of the real experts are allowed to say anything without his explicit approval.
17
@Bob Peltz "Our very stable genius says everything is under control"
And the goofballs running for the Democratic presidential candidate would save us how?
I cannot believe how many far lefties just drink the Kool Aid and think the Democrats are any better. Sad. Very sad.
When the spread of the virus becomes significant,
Will the CDC ban election rallies?
Will polling places be stifled ?
Will the trump regime rule primary results invalid ?
Don't dismiss evil intent.
14
This is going to test whether Trump can really handle a crisis and whether he can put his phone down and concentrate on the entire public, not just his base. Early results suggest he will fail this test.
25
@AW
Sure. This has their full concentration. Trump is off to another pep rally, and Pence is off to a fund raiser. No cause for concern.
3
those who are selling out of the market are not retail investors or those with a 401k retirement funds through an employers.
those who are selling out of the markets are institutional investors, hedge funds, investment banks, billionaires...all the usual suspects from the global collapse of 2008.
consider this when you next read a comment with the "earnest" statement, "Now is the time to buy."
11
It's time for the FED put to be banished. Every time the markets get in a tither the FED rests it's finger on the scale when it really needs to stand aside and let market forces determine fair value.
We are 18% above the December 19 low don't bail out wall street.
2
@Tom Yeah, it’s great you’re independently wealthy and do not risk losing your job and living on the streets in another recession.
This is the time to buy. I am digging in. The market will be back stronger than ever and my 401K will benefit immensely.
3
@Kingsley Arthur Rowe
If I had a dollar for every time I heard or read "This is the time to buy," through the first three quarters of 2008 I'd be much richer than I am having had the sense to get out of the market in the winter of 2007 when credit markets froze.
6
@Mary Elizabeth Lease
Market timing (buy or sell) is a fools game.
If a young person puts $25/week into an index fund from age 20-30, then $50/wk aged 30-40, $100 week age 40-50, and never sells they will wildly outperform all the "clever" market timers.
9
@John B
those who are selling out of the markets are institutional investors, hedge funds, investment banks, billionaires...all the usual suspects from the global collapse of 2008.
consider this when you next read a comment with the "earnest" statement, "Now is the time to buy."
4
The stock market is fancy gambling. It's betting. Nothing is ever a sure thing. If people in this country didn't love and value money so much, maybe we would turn our attention to other important and more worthwhile pursuits. Humanity? Climate change? Education? I don't know. The past three years has taken the wind out of my sails, and now my money too.
16
@Maryrose You are dreaming right? Since when have societies not cared about money or wealth?
Love the fact that the focus isn’t on the 56 nations infected so far, but on our stock market plunge. America at its very best.
23
@James That is not what it is about...it is about disruption of economic supply chains around the world.
3
@MM
Exactly, that’s the leading headline, that’s the convo in the media, etc etc
1
Federal Reserve Chair Jerome H. Powell moved to soothe investors on Friday, issuing a statement reaffirming that the central bank will use its tools and “act as appropriate to support the economy.”
The Fed's head and heart are in the correct place but they have no tools
to “act as appropriate to support the economy.”
2
Bush Sr. against Clinton : "The economy, stupid." (James Carville, 1992)
History repeating itself?
2
Good.
1
I am sure under the able leadership of Mike Pence, things will bounce back to normal next week.
Wait - isn't this the same Mike Pence who is in favor of conversion therapy, against sex ed, against use of condoms, and against stem cell research?
Never mind. We are doomed.
18
Instead of calming fears by detailing an extensive mitigation plan to beat back this plague, Trump denies that there's any danger and tells us everything is great. Instead of pulling the country together with soaring rhetoric and a determination to get through this, Trump points fingers at anyone but himself. Instead of preparing for crisis, we have thoughts and prayers from Pence. Instead if reassurance, we have Trump's rambling, incoherent word-vomit.
No wonder the markets crashed. Our government is utterly unprepared for this crisis. It's going to get worse than this before things get better.
8
@Mr. Adams this is no surprise. Trump has been incompetent and inept from the beginning.
So what’s DJT going to talk about tonight at his rally?
HIs great planning for the Coronavirus and how well prepared we are?
That the virus is just like the flu?
The tanking stock market?
How Modi is a great,great guy,the greatest, and isn’t responsible for the riots in India?
Today’s federal court decision against keeping asylum seekers in Mexico until their cases are heard?
How Roger Stone was “exonerated?”
How Obama, Pelosi and the Democrats are to blame for all of the above?
12
The President is on the record as advocated the following:
"If the Dow Jones ever fall more than 1000 "points" in a single day, the sitting President should be loaded into a very big cannon and shot into the sun at a tremendous speed! No excuses!"
Well this has happened twice on his watch, and by doing his bidding, we would only be following his orders.
27
@lecourt... , I’ll bring the matches if you’ll bring the beer.
2
"The sell-off is fueled mostly by worry that containing the virus would hamper economic growth".
Could the emphasis on economic capital over human capital that typifies the interests of the "have's" over the "have-not's" be be expressed any clearer?
As Michael Moore famously observed, "A capitalist will sell you the rope to hang himself with".
4
I sold all my stock holdings right after trump was (stupidly) elected. I'm an atheist, but I wish to god (whatever THAT is) that I had something to sell. I love what this is going to do to donald in November. Let's see him lie and prevaricate his way out of THIS.
5
I loaded up on stocks after the election. I sold most of it two months ago. I listened to Warren Buffet.
1
NYT,
It might be beneficial for you to remind your readers that not all pandemics are created equal.
The mortality rate from Ebola is around 90%.
The mortality rate for this coronavirus is around 3%, which is far less than other common illnesses like measles, yellow fever, typhoid fever and tetanus, that do not receive headlines.
Yes, you have a responsibility to inform, but you also have a responsibility to inform in a responsible way.
You are the NYT, not TMZ.
4
@Michael Moon
your estimation of a mortality rate of 3% has no basis in fact.
1
@Mary Elizabeth Lease
It is in the ballpark - maybe a tad high.
Based on imperfect data from China the pros are estimating about 2%.
That is still a lot.
If we get 50 million cases in the US, then 2 million would die.
Non-trivial.
2
@Michael Moon when tetanus is a raging pandemic why not get back to us on the mortality rate. Ebola is not easily transmitted, covid-19 is. There is a reason measles isn't a problem anymore, its called vaccination. No vaccine as of yet for covid-19.
And if you're part of the population most at risk 3% vs 90% probably doesn't make you feel better.
5
A little correction is good. Don't panic people.
1
Facts always matter.
2
This disaster belongs to Trump. He dismantled everything Obama built up in case of something like this just because he hates Obama. Americans will die due to his paranoia.
10
Unfortunately for Trump, You can’t lie your way out of a pandemic
4
"Google searches linking 'beer,' 'Corona' and 'virus' surged..."
Was this Trump and his staff looking for an expert to deal with the virus?
4
Buying opportunity
@Peter
how many times did we hear that through the first 9 months of 2008?
2
Karma...
...the fact that the state of the stock market continues to compete with--and in fact outshine--news of the actual suffering and deaths tied to the virus itself, in news headlines, says so much about what we as a species have coming...
3
Just remember, despite what Trump says, the stock market is not the real world. It doesn’t even accurately reflect the real world half of the time. It’s mob psychology and greedy wishful thinking given shape. To understand the coronavirus epidemic and its long-term economic impact, which is certainly a real issue but one to be handled rationally, watching the panicked selling of financial traders is not helpful.
1
@citybumpkin Watching the selloff may not be helpful, but thinking about what it's going to do to donald in November makes it irresistible. I get great satisfaction every time I refresh my browser screen and watch those numbers DROP.
3
It is the flu and will be gone in two months. About the same morality rate as any flu. Time to buy stocks.
2
@Jonathan
"flu" false
"gone in two months" false
"same mortality rate" false
"time to buy stocks" false
If this were the WaPo, I would say that this is Russian agiprop.
1
@Jonathan - Says the guy who hasn't bothered reading any of the hundreds of news reports about it.
1
Now China has also started exporting viruses.
2
Its odd. If this is the beginning of a world wide plague that will kill hundreds of millions, its a long time coming. The world population is around 9 billion, and there has not been a major world war or plague in decades. If the world population were somewhat lower, there would be less pressure on the environment and climate. I know that sounds rather inhuman, but it is a fact. Too many passengers on this orb.
On the other hand, if it is passing thing, similar to a bad flu epidemic, it will run its course in a few months, and the economic harm will be temporary.
What is driving this market is fear, and fear alone. I know people who sold out near the bottom in 2008-09, and then were afraid to buy back in afterwards. Their retirements were permanently altered for the worse, and they have never fully recovered.
Hang in there folks. Maybe tonight, drink enough Caronas to make yourself sick.
4
"I alone can fix it." More prophetic words were never spoken. This is what happens when ignorance collides with arrogance in the Oval Office.
9
We talked our friend and relative into cashing out the stock market, six months ago. They'd be miserable today, if they were still in that casino. Looks like Trump's one (fake) accomplishment, the economy, is in dire straits. As is his reelection prospects...But then, Trump's schtick always did have a serious date with reality. Along with his followers.
4
This is the Trump administration in even fuller flower, Endangering Americans by way of Lies, Misrepresentations and by Continuing the Denuding of scientists and doctors from government departments and agencies, etc.
What's often even more jarring is the ignorance they often evince on top of the lies and misrepresentations they traffic in daily.
Has President Rump reached 17,000 lies yet?
9
Worst crisis in financial markets since 2008... refresh my recollection, which party occupied the White House when the ceiling fell in? Was it the party of tax cuts, deregulation, overheated markets, trader’s tricks like derivatives then and stock buybacks now, bloated asset values and an exploding federal deficit - a house of cards waiting to be blown over by the first stiff breeze to come along?
Uh huh. That’s your ‘party of fiscal responsibility’ for you.
12
Oopsie, the Dow is nearing -1,000 again, with 2 hours to go before the close and a weekend coming up. Last few days it's plunged before the close. Will be "interesting" to see where this ends up today. Only a dose of truth is going to steady things - - trump's platitudes and prayers for a miracle aren't producing any response.
4
The only positive is that trump just spent days in India surrounded by 125,000 people.
14
Something tells me that if Corona spreads here, members of the GOP might, just might, for one minute, believe in science. But it may be more difficult than I think to convince people who believe that dinosaurs were ponies for Jesus.
7
Getting out of the market in the face of fact based bad news with lots of room to run is not "timing the market" nor is it "panic"—it is a rational response.
2
God forbid we hamper corporate profits for any reason!
4
Where is President Trump? What is he going to do about it? talk, talk, talk, talk and no leadership. Figures.
6
Since President Trump and his allies (look at your 401K'a!!) took all the credit for the stock run up - will they now take the blame for this huuuge correction?
6
Global panic and now financial losses over the death of 2,800 people. More die every hour in car crashes, more die every minute of heart disease. Another stunning proof that we live in a reality that is literally created by what we read: billions of people reading more or less the same things at the same time. Billions of people seeing the same images, reading the same stories written by fewer and fewer people...
I say trust trust your 5 senses, live your own life and battle the virus if it gets you. You have a 99.9% chance of coming out alive and stronger! Viva la liberta! Off with the mask!
2
@josh
The USA now sees more people killed by guns than cars each year, but that’s for a different thread.
This is on Trump for gutting the CDC.
7
Well, they are right to panic if you have lots of money in the stock market as the companies will not be showing a profit in the foreseeable future if a vaccine isn't going to be discovered for at least one year. And there is nothing anyone can do about it. They're probably take a loss and get out of shares and hop back in the market when a coronavirus vaccine is on the market. Your money is probably safer in the bank getting 1% interest. At least you still have your money. The Company Directors in shares won't be taking a hit and will still get their wages; it will be the shareholders that loose out and not get dividends or worse still, no money if the company files for bankruptcy.
2
The Times seems to be blaming the market drop on a substantial change to the world economy due to the virus. Everyone knows that the markets were destined to drop. But blaming the huge market drop on hysteria about a tiny virus doesn’t provide any ammunition to attack Trump. I remember that Trump shut down travel from China weeks ago. Maybe Democrats will say Trump should have acted even more quickly on incomplete information from China. Fortunately we have huge stockpiles of needed supplies that were assembled for the past vital epidemics during the Obama Administration.
1
As Trump blames the media and the Democrats for causing the stock market to go down, I find it sad that with my two economics courses (high school and college), I know more about how it works than he does (our "genius" President with an Ivy League business degree). It would be comforting to think that he's lying to keep up a front, but I think he has no concept of how psychological factors and the need to protect oneself financially affect buy and sell.
11
I’ve read that more than 80% of people will have such mild symptoms (or none) that they may just think they have a cold. How was this ever NOT going to be a pandemic?
In the US, I haven’t seen any communication around what to do in order to get tested. Can we go to a clinic or must it be the emergency room? Are there plans to make the test widely available?
If we plan to beat this, the government will have to step in to make testing free. Otherwise, most wont bother even if they do have insurance.
10
@Emily S The things you listed (how to get tested, who is going to produce the test kits ?) are things that people would wonder about in a rational world. Like, when FDR, Eisenhower, JFK or Carter were President. I think that unfortunately, in trump-world these questions are meaningless.
In The Time of trump, the only meaningful questions are ones like : What's in this for me ? and : Why don't all those little people just die already ?
4
If the bromide about the stock market being a leading indicator is true, there will be many recently employed with "good" medical benefits who are shown the door and become acquainted with that abomination known as COBRA -- along with a newfound appreciation for universal health care.
14
Every day talking heads in the financial news assign a single reason for the market closing up or down. "The market closed down on fears of this or that", or "The market closed up on news of this or that". It's a convenient lead to their stories. The fact is that there are underlying trends driving the market. I think we may be seeing the chickens coming home on a number of issues, not just coronavirus.
5
The stock market is reacting to both speculation on the severity of the coronavirus and the reality of Chinese factory closings that will impact product shipomest to the US resulting in lower or loss of earnings to US companies. The latter is a real threat that the US has brought on itself. Outsourcing to China has become a real threat to our economy because of the extent of US corporations from manufacturing to pharmaceutical reliance on low cost products from China. So much so that companies have down sized and no longer have the manufacturing to react when the supply chain breaks down. I fault our government over the past 30 years for allowing this. The same results could happen if we ever go to war with China or the shipping lanes are closed for what ever reason. This should be a wake up call to the US and realise that we became a world power on self reliance not out sourcing. Self reliance also means that we need to be medically prepared for situations such as this.
13
@VMG
Which brings up an interesting possibility, from a progressive viewpoint. Government-run healthcare financing combined with NIH-run pharmaceuticals -- you know, the ones that stop rare diseases that Big Pharma doesn't see as worthwhile (profitable) ventures.
4
@VMG - You can also blame your fellow Americans who insist on cheap goods.
Yes, the stock market is plummeting based on fears of Coronavirus. The market effect has been predicted and it is worse than ominous. However, there is another factor. Selling begets selling. Loans for speculative investment are being called due. Investments are sold to cover losses. This is the most dangerous time. It is not a sleeping bear. Rather the bull has turned around and is charging towards us. It is Pamplona with nowhere to hide.
12
'Markets are sliding amid coronavirus fears.'
Meanwhile our president's only calendar entry for today is a rally in South Carolina, a state where he faces no opposition in the R primary. And his corona virus pandemic point person (definitely not a czar), Mike Pence, is going to Florida for a $25,000 a plate fundraiser.
Unfortunately, expertise has a well known liberal bias. It's way past time to vote accordingly.
33
We tend to think that the wealthy are "losing their shirts" over the steep market decline.........but what about the lower middle income people on fixed incomes, as well, who have lost over $1000 in stock value during the past week? Can we, on less than $30K, afford $1000 or more loss (9%) on the money we socked away for retirement?
What does Trump have to say about that? Maybe we invested in the wrong companies? I think not, but he'll laugh and say, "That's tough.....ya made the wrong choices."
"I alone can fix it!" With the help of Rev Dr Pence at the helm.
13
@ultimateliberal Yes, we can afford it for as long as it takes to claw trump out of the White House and take back OUR government. I've seen far worse.
4
As always, the fact that people are able buy stocks on margin; and are subsequently get hit with margin calls, when the market takes a drop, is part of the problem.
This abhorrent process benefits no one but the dealers. All the stories about how it is actually helps stabilize the markets, are 100% sell serving propaganda.
Everybody tells you all about it, when the win - but say nothing at all, when they lose.
6
There is a way forward here. The medical literature (mostly from Chinese researchers) has numerous articles on most of the aspects of the coronavirus outbreak: Accurate diagnosis, triage based on diagnosis, treatment. Also, on containment, and then prevention for populations for whom containment will likely not work.
A scientific committee (appointed, maybe, by Dr. Fauci) can develop a protocol for CV. Then, we can proceed in an orderly, coordinated fashion.
Hollow accusations will serve no one.
3
@Sarah Murphy
Fauci has been muzzled by Trump and Pence. Want to try again?
3
If you're healthy, you'll be OK. Just wait a few weeks and it will recover.
5
@PATRICK
I’m sure they said the same thing in 1918.
4
@PATRICK
And the infant and elderly and those who've been without proper healthcare for a while that have not been able to achieve good health because of institutional neglect?
Good Luck to them? Is that what you mean to finish your thought?
3
“Healthy”? Like the three, young dead Chinese doctors?
1
I'm gonna survive Trump.
I'm old, I live way out in the country and have already stockpiled plenty of food, water and ammunition.
It's the kids I worry about.
They are not gonna do very good.
15
GOP has always claimed to be the "fiscal responsibility" party, but whenever there is a market crash (e.g., 2008) it's always a Republican (Bush) in power. Remember that Bill Clinton left Bush with a budget surplus.
21
The stock market was overdue for a correction, it just needed a catalyst like our stable genius.
13
@Steve
Easy for you to say. I just lost half of my retirement. He needs to be Article 25'd asap.
This will cost him millions of votes. Good!
13
@Clearwater
If you lost half of your retirement on a 12% drop you were either:
A) wildly over leveraged, or
B) concentrated in one or two poorly chosen stocks, not diversified
When the market drops 10%, folks in index funds lose 10%
5
@Clearwater
If I were you I’d move the half you have left into fixed annuities. You won’t gain much but you won’t be hit with further losses.
2
The existing patchwork health care system in the US can not stand up to a pandemic. If the Coronavirus makes inroads into the US economy, it will spread exponentially because poorly paid workers can not afford to get tested and they certainly can't afford to take off a day from work. They'll work while sick out of necessity.
This would be a good time to compile a data base on every business in the US that doesn't offer sick leave and/or provide health insurance, so that consumers have enough information to make informed choices, because we have no idea how the virus spreads.
The US health care system is dependant on workers getting health insurance from their employers. It should be a law that all employers either provide health insurance, or support a public option.
8
I've just spent an hour trying to find an N95 face mask. None are available on line or in stores. People may be panicking, but the economic consequences are real. The travel industry already hit hard will be hurt even more as discretionary spring travel gets cancelled. Supplies from China are unavailable as workers are still confined or wary of the virus thus making products scarce. Restaurants, buses, trains, theaters, shopping malls and other public places will all be avoided by those fearful of contracting the virus. But will there be lasting damage as the large corporate debt forces a cascade of bankruptcies and foreclosures? If the virus continues for another month, a real serious recession may result. And that depends on whether or not western Europe and the U.S. have a sustained outbreak as experts are predicting.
3
This sell off is being driven by irrational fear. The WHO stated that 80% of people who contract coronavirus have mild to no symptoms. Governments really don’t know how many people have it. Millions of people could have already been infected and recovered before the outbreak was even discovered. When everyone realizes that this virus isn’t the plague, the stock market is going to rebound in a huge way. I think we could see new highs before the end of the year.
3
@Mark
Irrational fear is the other side of irrational exuberance.
2
We will see the new highs by the second week of April. Write it down.
Good Job Trump! You absolutely instilled NO confidence in your belittling of experts and other professionals, in your appointment of a religious zealot party hack to lead our response and your cavalier attitude.
It may not prove to be a world wide disaster but what the entire world needed was a sure footed, non political response from the so called leader of the free world. You provided just the opposite.
And you have seriously damaged a lot of people's retirement funds to boot.
16
Larry Kudlow is an idiot, and has been an idiot for decades before he joined team Trump. Anyone who takes his economic prescriptions seriously should have their head examined. That said, it would be nice to have seasoned economists and true financial experts weigh in on what to expect. I know I will be listening.
13
@voltairesmistress
Whenever he extolled tax cuts to stimulate the economy, he always cited the Kennedy tax cut as creating a wonderful economic climate for growth.
Kennedy cut the top bracket rate from 91% to 70%. This more than tripled the after tax income for that bracket. There is no equivalent effect from cutting the top rate from, say, 39 to 34.
More important, it shows that Kudlow admits that a 70% tax rate will support economic growth.
He is an economist for simpletons.
10
Don will call Mnuchin over at Treasury and have him cook the books going into November. They'll over report unemployment ..."it's a 1%"...They'll say they created 1,000,000 manufacturing jobs...and brought back 12 companies. And there is that little group that will believe them...The gaslighting of America...is in full swing.
7
@Harley Leiber
Fortunately, most economic data has multiple sources and the US Government cannot cook the books without being called out quite easily.
Trump will lie, exaggerate and cherry pick, but there is not too much room for outright "cooking".
2
Why are the headlines about the Stock Market? What is wrong with us????
9
This is a New York City, center of the U.S. economy, newspaper. You should not be surprised that they cover the NYSE, especially when it has large implications to the nation and world as a whole and is directly related to a potential global crisis. What is “wrong with us” is a lack of critical thinking and too much hyperbolic speech.
Out of curiosity I checked the price and availability of N95 masks on Amazon last night. Of the few still available 3rd party sellers, for example, had a box of 10 masks for $249 plus $45 in shipping. That's 10 masks, not 10 cases of masks. Obviously along with the price gouging on Prell, there's big $ to be from this virus.
4
The market has its own logic, its own intelligence, if you will, based on probabilities as understood by millions of humans around the globe. The market is not a Trump supporter. It is not a Trump hater. The market likes predictability and competence in leadership. The market understands that Trump cannot provide these things in a crisis and it reacts accordingly.
18
@gegan
Bravo, well said. As I explained to my financial planner's young assistant, this is not just about the virus. It's about being rudderless in a crisis. A leader must inspire and offer succor while being realistic. A narcissist, Trump believes he is always right and has no empathy. There is no eloquence or even real information.
What a leader must do is stipulate calmly: "This is what we know so far. This is what we don't know yet. Here is our plan to date. Here are my experts and I will turn the podium over to them."
Trump is incapable of this. He doesn't know anything about disease. And he doesn't care as long as it's not happening to him.
The market sees this -- and the lack of Alexandrian leadership (leadership from the front) worldwide -- and reacts accordingly. -- thegamesmenplay.com
5
If the media are bringing down trump because they're reporting the truth about the coronavirus and its effects, then so be it. And at this point, who would believe Kudlow? He's the person who was encouraging people to buy right before the crash in 2008.
10
I love Trump and support him 97% of the way, but I was always felt that Trump touted the market too much, and I felt it would lead to another crash like in 1929 ending the Republican party till Reagan but in 2029. So I welcome this fall now because it may have avoided a much worse crash in the future. I think the market today is where it belongs. It flew to high like Icarus, and has returned to Earth. As for the virus, that is more of an anti_Trump media even than anything serious. One hundred years ago we had the Spanish flue that may have killed up to 100 million people after WWI which killed 10 million, and still the world went on to good times, then very bad times during WWII, and back to better times. So this virus is just another molehill made into a mountain by the fake, never-Trumpist media.
@Jgarbuz So it isn't a crisis until at least 10 million people die. Good to know.
14
100 million people should not be so easily dismissed. Very clear plans were put into place with how to deal with this. Name me 5 things he has actually laid out.
8
@Michael It's only a crisis if the NYTimes, CNN, BBC, MSNBC says it is. Or any other fake crisis "news" promoters for anti-Trump purposes.
Maybe the decline in the markets has a little less to do with the coronavirus and a little more to do with overvalued securities and a decade of illusory gains driven by corporate stock buybacks.
8
Republicans last week "The Government has no role in health care, and we shouldn't allocate taxpayer dollars to address anyone's health because that's socialism."
Republicans this week "We desperately need the Government to act on this coronavirus and allocate taxpayer dollars to address our citizen's health."
30
Now we need a REAL genius able to solve a REAL problem, not a fake president pretending to be a leader.
14
@Armandol
Calling Dr Pence, Calling Dr Pence.
Code Blue
Your "genius" is required in the OR, stat.
2
Pandemic headed our way, and Trumplicans trying to spin it as a head cold and blaming it on the media. When the first deaths are reported here, will Pence claim it’s fake news? Did the Dems cut the CDC budget, and eliminate the pandemic quick response team? Hey, but now we have a Space Force instead, to combat an invasion from Mars! That’s way more important than the CDC & WHO.
21
Maybe if our government focused on well being of the country instead of keeping the bloated orange sun king happy, there wouldn’t be such panic.
We are seeing the downside of the personality cult that Republican Party has become.
21
Reality Check spread of virse can be track by the migration of wild birds. Man cant stop mother nature we brought this upon selves with our waste an concuming energy.Rise carbon levels in oceans is proof. We are at cross road either we stop burning fossile fuels or we will be responsible for losss of life others. Birds an bees are sign man cant co exist we will be pirish with them.
2
As the markets tumble so to do the propects for the incumbent in the White House.
It’s not a political blab, it’s just the way it works!
We are watching in real time the demise of DJT’s “administration”.
Everything DJT touches dies- eventually! Looks like it the economy now.
14
We need more Welfare Queen Farmer Money - $28 Billion is not enough; then another round of tax cuts for Billionaires is needed to stop all those socialist ideas once and for all!!!
3
This seems precisely the kind of global chaos envisioned by Steve Bannon which will usher in a new world that's more to his and the Mercer's liking. Yuck!
8
The president needs to shut down the stock market for one week until everything calms down
1
Sure. And when it reopens will drop 50pct in one week.
1
“Larry Kudlow, President Trump’s chief economic adviser, said the United States “will weather” the coronavirus crisis…”
Brilliant, Larry. In the financial world, it’s the recovery time that’s the killer.
3
"Larry Kudlow, the director of the White House’s National Economic Council, said on Friday that the United States economy is “fundamentally sound”
and on Wednesday Kudlow said the US had Covad-19 containted.
you see the problem, right?
7
Larry Kudlow in Dec 2007: “Don’t call it a recession” https://www.nationalreview.com/2007/12/bush-boom-continues-larry-kudlow/
7
Folks don't believe hizzonner is up to the job or will tell us the truth? Just a wild guess.
2
Pray harder, Pence, pray harder...
12
For anyone with a 401k who is still working and still contributing, don't stop. And don't panic.
Continue the regular contributions through the maelstrom. You'll be glad down the road.
13
Depends on where the road leads. Most of these folks [incl you] have lived through simple ups and downs. This is a brown-swam time. A case of we dont know what we dont know.
2
@Jules
Anyone with a 401(k) who reads this newspaper would/should have moved their funds into Money Market a few days ago.
I transferred my retirement fund from stock to a guaranteed interest account after Trump was elected, because I didn't deem he is competent to be POTUS at all. Though I don't earn as much as those who have their money in stock, I am spared from anxiety and worries.
Trump's news conference on the spread of Coronavirus is a joke! The CDC has to go through Pence to release any update on Coronavirus is even worse than the stock market's plunge since we all know that Pence is Trump's lackey, he might coverup any information which is deemed disadvantageous to the Trump's administration and re-election. It is clear that his administration is in a scramble to deal with the situation, and the Whitehouse turns off all TV. If Trump does not know the spread of the virus, it does not exist!
The US is way underprepared for the spread of Coronavirus proved by the shortage of medical masks and hand sanitizers. Moreover, the administration does not offer low-cost or free treatment for those who don't have health insurance and contract the virus, there will be many people who won't seek treatment and spread the virus around.
Very worrisome time!
10
I’m not sure. A falloff of a few hundred points is not unusual. Neither are epidemics. Is this really a news story, or a last desperate effort to derail President Trump?
@Michael Livingston’s
We are into the Thousands of points now, Michael.
9
Come out from under that rock.
3
I'm retired. I moved 40% of my small equity holdings to MM at 29,300 and the rest today, essentially "profit taking" on the earlier run-up. The rest is in interest bearing accounts, no immediate exposure to the market.
I'm on the sidelines now, watching what Dear Leader and his Merry Pranksters in the White House, House and Senate are going to do in the face of a real crisis that will need real, not MAGA, leadership.
The Whole World is Watching.....not just me.
8
Smart moves - especially if you are ‘older’. I like your Merry Pranksters - maybe should be Merry Penpeolows [pence and pomoeo and kudlow]
1
Never been so glad to be an average American. Since 90% of all wealth in the stock market is only controlled by 10% of Americans, I have literally too few holdings to be substantially hurt by this.
And to all of you who are going to cry, “But the poor ‘job creators’ are going to see their capital reduced...” are they “job creators”? Really? Because I’ve been an American worker my entire life, and not ONCE, not once in my entire life have I seen a raise commensurate with company profits.
My entire life, everyone around me has seen their wages virtually frozen, while corporate profits soared. You want me to care about the poor of’ billionaires who are taking some lumps now? Nah. I’ve no pity for them. They had their chance to break bread with the workers during the good times. Now they want sympathy? They’ll find none if they come knocking on my door, asking for help.
14
@Austin Ouellette
It's not just rich people who have their money in the stock market. It's middle class people with retirement plans, college tuitions, 401Ks, mortgages, etc. You know, regular people with hopes and dreams.
When a tree fell on my house in the nor'easter of 2010, Wall Street saved it. It's the tide that lifts all boats.
It's not just about the 1 percenters. -- thegamesmenplay.com
3
@GG
When my back and knees were blown out, and I couldn’t work a physical job anymore, it was the big publicly traded Wall Street health insurance company that told me tough luck.
When my friend’s house burned down in the forest fires in Southern Colorado in 2013, it was the Wall Street bank who told him tough luck.
When I fell on some hard times and needed just a little liquid capital to get me through, it was Wall Street banks who told me they couldn’t help me.
Lifts all boats? Nah. They lifted YOUR boat by throwing bricks made of lead into mine.
2
Maybe Trump will have another 'press conference' and reassure is all of his "decisive action" and mastery and knowledge. Look at how good that worked the first time!
I listened on the radio, and I was -not- reassured. Trump in unscripted situations is scary... perhaps one or two doctors can examine his mental state, along with researching the virus.
It certainly would be very good to have now the special NSA and CDC 'epidemic threat assessment and response' infrastructure set up by President Obama, and dismantled by Trump's administration over the last couple years. 'Who knew global epidemic threats were so dangerous..?' Trump would probably believe he could disband the fire department, then just hire the firefighters when his building was burning... because that's the exact equivalent to his attitude about the highly-skilled scientists he shut down.
We need to address the biggest threat to the United States future as soon as possible -- Trump, and his complicit Republican enablers.
Vote Them All Out!
7
Whew, Kudlow provides relief as up until he spoke everybody knew that everything lasted forever. Of course it won't last forever but he begged off answering what he or anyone else in this benighted administration is doing to make it last for as short a time as possible.
2
Where is Mike Pence? He is supposed to be the face of the response. Where is Azar? In fact, where are the doctors? The experts? I get more information from my HR department than this government. During Ebola, we got daily briefings.
7
@Alonzo quijana " I get more information from my HR department than this government. "
Ouch!
3
The Trump administration's anti-science strategy coming home to roost! Stop funding the Trump Wall and use that money to cover this and the next pandemic response. You have to train Infectious Disease specialists before you can hire them off the street--they are not sitting in the bullpen. Hiring and training enough ID specialists should be part of the long term global strategy to deal with the coming pandemics.
2
Thoughts and Prayers
Trump did not create this virus. What he has done is make us totally unprepared to deal with it. In his zeal to destroy all things Obama did, Trump’s budget cuts at the CDC and NIH and the office which was set up to deal with Ebola, this country
doesn’t have the infrastructure to protect this country. He appoints his VP whose solution is to muzzle the scientists because the truth contradicts what Trump says. And the president talks today about there will be a miracle and the virus will disappear. No wonder the markets are in free fall.
9
Don't look at 401k account, don't look at 401k account, don't look at 401k account, don't look at 401k account, don't look at 401k account,d on't look at 401k account....
11
Good advice. I did and immediately regretted it.
1
@Wry And Dry
Look one time each year.
And rebalance if needed.
Punto.
2
@John B good advice! I don't have enough self-control to follow it, unfortunately.
hmm, one of the drawbacks of a president that has been pumping them with his twitter for 3 years... They were massively overvalued to start, oh
1
So adminstration officials now give official opinions on the value of stocks. Kudlow says they look cheap to him. Is he or is the grovernment covering your losses? Does anyone have any issues with the government juicing the markets in this way? where is the capitalism?
1
Thank God that, in the face of a possibly dangerous pandemic, there's people like former cable-news shill Larry Kudlow to urge people to buy stocks for long term gains, and Christian evolutionist Mike Pence who will coordinate the scientific response to the virus. I mean, no one in the Tea Party/right wants the market to fall to half of it's value, like it did in 2008. Because the huge bail out of TARP is what created the Tea Party in the first place, so if there's a real world depression and pandemic, we need the most sensible people in charge. Amirite?
3
Enough with all of the hateful comments about Trump and Republicans, folks. Show some respect for the office, and show some decency. Real people are getting hurt financially, and world-wide real people are dying from this virus. This could have a major impact on the U.S., so stop acting like children. Try to lead by example.
1
@DRS:
Shouldn’t your President start to lead by example?
9
I guess that you’ve forgotten that respect is earned, not just blithely bestowed. There’s absolutely nothing worthy of respect in this maladministration.
6
@DRS "Show some respect for the office"
Yes, if the incumbent showed respect for the office, we should also show respect.
In the meantime......
5
A rational leader would get off of Twitter and allow daily briefings led by CDC and NIH officials. You know, folks that understand infectious disease and the complexities in dealing with public health risks. This may be the 3am phone call Secretary Clinton warned about in 2016.
8
Thanks Trump! Good work. Not as good as GWB but much better than that awful Obama who tripled the market.
7
Larry Kudlow was known for the many years in which he played an economist on TV to be one of the most reliable negative indicators for the stock market. In other words, you could buy and sell very profitably by assuming that he was going to be proved wrong.
Of course he now is just a shill for his lord, so his predictions are whatever Donald Trump would have us believe.
9
But researchers at Nomura warned on Friday that "there is little that monetary policy can do to limit the immediate downside risk for the U.S. economy.”
How about we change that sentence to something more rational, such as, 'There is much that monetary policy can do to limit the the immediate and long term risk for American and Global communities of people; like the investor class can stop dumping currency into US Treasury Bonds which then produce yields that block most people from financial and cultural opportunities to move forward with homeownership and transportation.'
We should not be surprised by how the outright greed of the investor class is now stepping on bodies to protect themselves.
4
All problems have a silver lining (indeed sometimes that lining is inherent). Israel announced a cure breakthrough, and the pressure on BDS may overwhelm its message, at least temporarily and while the narrative is sustained.
I’m certain that trump, pence and kudlow and entirely responsible for this precipitous decline in the markets.
A sure sign of their intelligence, savvy, acumen and omnipotence!! Yes, let’s blindly trust them to fix everything and to make America great. They’re doing such a great job now...
2
While all of this discussion is going on we might want to remember that it was the American companies that decided to move a lot of their operations to China to have cheap labor, rather than keep paying American workers.
And when China stole their so-called secrets, that the companies willingly gave them in order to manufacture cheaper goods, this was the result.
So Larry Kudrow stating we really have nothing to be alarmed about is rather an innocuous statement. When all of the Manufacturing companies in China are shut down, it affects the world economy more than any other country including ours.
Just another Trump crony doing his job to assure us it is not as bad as it seems.
Lowering interest rates are not going to stimulate the economy as people stand a good chance of being laid off if there is nothing to sell.
8
Trump should tell his followers more about this common cold they may be getting soon. Sorry, this common cold they will not be getting. He has everything under such beautiful control.
2
And it is more serious for the ‘older’ people, such as tRump and Kudow.
2
Larry Kudlow's statements are about as reassuring as Mike Pence being appointed coronavirus czar. Trump and his entire cabinet lack the expertise or experience to deal with crises Everyone he has picked for staff was done because of unquestioning loyalty, and not because of their experience. The market has run up because Trump and Congress has allowed Wall Street to do anything they wanted to, with no oversight or control, and now the long awaited correction is in full effect.
7
the most valuable asset any president can have is the trust of the people and trump squandered this shortly into his term in office. We need a government we can trust to tell us what is happening and what we should be doing to protect our families and communities and it is just not there.
8
I often find myself feeling sorry for people who work or have worked for President Trump, or cannot avoid coming into contact with him.
I myself try to cross over to the other side of the street to avoid shaking hands with him.
But the coronavirus is an emergency … so for the time being, I’m willing to shake hands with him.
3
Shake hands with him to pass on the virus!?
3
@Tamza
Me and the dog in the picture here just write 'em.
We don't explain 'em.
1
It's interesting to watch our society hereby proclaim that we want the government/taxpayer funded resources allocated to prevent the coronavirus from killing potentially thousands or more here in the US which could kill tens of thousands of our fellow citizens....but we're not willing to provide universal health care to avert the deaths of tens of thousands or our fellow citizens.
I guess our government has to just do enough to keep the stock market rolling...priorities.
8
O But remember the panic and scare being created, and the BILLIONS of $$$ to be spent will benefit ??? .... BIG PHARMA with high prices per dose etc, of a vaccine of unknown efficacy,
Before anyone goes off the deep end and starts a panic do know one thing: we really know very little about this virus. Both China and our government has hamstrung this from the get go and before. There is also no leadership.
Now, let us be rational and figure this thing out.
1) how is it spreading
2) how long can it last exposed in the elements?
3) could some shipping containers and boxes brought it back (go back to how long outside a host)?
4) why has a dog been shown to have a small amount in it from its owner who had the virus?
5) exactly what is the incubation time and when is the virus spreadable?
6) are animals carriers, say birds and say in their droppings?
7) containment: we can't just put people in detention centers to die.
8) what about the immigrants that are being housed in unhealthy environments, will they get the care they deserve as humans?
9) can we just get a handle on this before mass hysteria occurs which is worse than the virus!
10) Can we get politics out of this and blame someone afterwards!
4
So, as W famously repeated ad infinitum following the Katrina fiasco, let’s not play the blame game? Sorry, we’re not buying that this time.
4
@Dave "following the Katrina fiasco". Notice what you just said and how it relates to my original thesis? Even so, blaming the person most at fault will get nothing accomplished.
@Chris Patrick Augustine
Chill.
The positive thing about free trade: It gives us cheap goods from China
The negative thing about free trade: It gives us pandemics from China - for the second time
Economists, in their promotion of free trade have never included the latter in their analysis of the benefits of free trade
We shall soon see, if this neglect was justified.
4
The virus didn't come over in a shipping container. It came back with U.S. citizens who were abroad.
in today's world Corporations have better intelligence gathering than do governments.
business leaders in the US know what is coming out of the Trump administration is politically driven nonsense meant to save Trump from himself on Nov. 3.
it isn't just Covid-19, his "gut" foreign policy in Syria has Turkey and Russia at sword point.
Russian-controlled forces in Syria have been roaming deeper into U.S.-held territory, raising the risk of conflict in an apparent effort “to challenge our presence in the northeast,” according to a senior State Department official.
“These are not daily occurrences, but they have been increasing in number,” James Jeffrey, the State Department’s lead negotiator for the Syria crisis, told reporters on Wednesday. “It’s troubling.”
3
If you stay in the market no matter what you make more money in the long run than if you panic, pull out and go back in later. That is called timing the market and it's been proven not to work. Seems like everyone would know this by now...
6
Naive. In the long run we are all dead!! It wasn’t until about 1954 that the Dow recovered to the level of the 1929 peak. Lots of waiting. And dying.
2
@Tamza
Also naive. If you lost money in the 2008 Great Recession (I did), you made it up by 2011. And the dip of 2018 was over in 2019.
The only way to make money in the stock market -- legally -- is to play the long game. -- thegamesmenplay.com
@Elizabeth
getting out of the market in the face of fact based bad news with lots of room to run is not "timing the market" nor is it "panic"—it is a rational response.
This virus is disrupting economic activity globally. The performance for this quarter will likely slip into recession levels. However, since we know nothing about what will happen, the economy may recover rapidly or not. We need to wait and see.
For now, the smart strategy is to prepare to treat those who become seriously ill to reduce fatalities and long term poor health for them. The virus is out and spreading beyond anyone’s ability to contain it. We are in a wait and see mode.
The best way to reduce over reaction at this point is honest and well confirmed sharing of information. When people know, they will act rationally. Exactly what Trump and Pence are incapable of appreciating and doing. They will try to manipulate and control the official message because they are people who only understand concealing and misleading to accomplish anything in life.
9
The economy is still “fundamentally sound,” says Mr Kudlow. And how’s that $22T debt doing?
12
The S&P index was at 865.58 on January 1, 2009. It's at 2,924 today.
1
Yes, but that does not mean it isn’t grossly overpriced.
5
2009? You mean the number it had when Republicans left it in shambles which caused Obama to have to come and take 8 years to fix it and bring it up to the levels it has today, only to have Trump take all the credit for it? (and you to believe him)
7
The longterm inflation adjusted stock market annual growth is ~4pct ie doubling every ~17years. Using your numbers, we have had about 11pct per year [after ~2pct inflation]. At its long term rate should be about 1470.
Lots of room to get to its secular curve.
This shows how irrational the stock market is and how little it tells about the real world. It is gambling and an artificially grown bubble using huge tax cuts for the happy fews. When its going up it is always because of the unmatched wisdom of our leaders if it is going down blame China or a virus.
6
If there is a down leg at the close today look for serious intervention over the weekend...
Someone please get Misters Bernanke; Paulson and Geithner on the phone STAT!
1
There is nothing other than a WAR to kick the economy into gear. Watch for some military action.
Remember what Trump said about Pence, "he doesn't have anything else to do", so let's give him the response to a global pandemic, like he responded to the HIV outbreak in his home state of Indiana.
If you have one iota of integrity or experience or professionalism at all, you are gone from this administration.
Why are those that have been told not to talk about the virus still there? They have no job at this point anyway, so do the right thing and resign.
During all of this mess, dear leader is having a rally in South Carolina tomorrow as if nothing is going on: global pandemic and stock market crash, buy hey, look over here.
12
Say it often—it's all Trump's fault!
3
@Tim the most valuable asset any president can have is the trust of the people and trump squandered this shortly into his term in office. We need a government we can trust to tell us what is happening and what we should be doing to protect our families and communities and it is just not there.
4
@Tim
and vote like you mean it Nov. 3
2
Donnie, Donnie, Donnie, this looks bad, especially on the heels of your crowing about everyone getting rich as 401k’s rocketed. Didn’t a wise investment sage say something about seeing who is swimming naked when the tide goes out?
9
@JR
-My kind of "Stable Genius/Businessman " ( Warren Buffett)
I wouldn't take seriously anything that Larry "Three Sheets to the Wind" Kudlow has to say.
7
Trade with China is suicide. The greatest transfer of wealth since 1492 is paid for by us and we fund their spying and human rights abuses.
5
@ABC
by we you mean consumers.
Actually it is the greatest transfer of wealth from the middle and lower economic class to the wealthy -
3
The problem, Mr. Kudlow, is that the U.S. economy is not « fundamentally sound ». If it was, there would be no problem. But it isn’t, and that is the problem.
4
Note to Larry Kudlow and the Trump administration. Select your words carefully on the future of the market and the economy.
As quoted from the article: "Larry Kudlow, the director of the White House’s National Economic Council, said on Friday that the United States economy is “fundamentally sound”
On Oct. 25, 1929, Herbert Hoover declared, "The fundamental business of the country...is on a sound and prosperous basis."
The day before this statement by President Hoover? Black Thursday, when in heavy trading the Dow Jones Industrial Average lost about 9 percent of its value.
Hoover's decision to "ride out the storm" turned out to be disastrous for the country and the millions of Americans who suffered during the Great Depression.
9
Great comment. Those who forget/ignore history ... . Key difference is: then the transactions were on paper, ie slow. Now super-fast computers. Then it took about 25 years to recover to the level of 1929 peak; this time the fall will likely be faster, and recovery will be driven by human psychology factors, and just as slow.
Trump needs to command the markets to cease all trading or his attempts to represent the situation as he likes will be futile.
One thing about Pence, he has no scruples despite his religious fanaticism, so Trump can count on him forbidding the CDC and the government department heads from saying the politically unfavorable news.
At this point, no rational person can trust anything official from our government because nobody can trust the President nor any Republican leaders in the Congress to be honest if it does not help them politically.
16
shutting down economic activity can happen instantaneously.
restarting it not so much.
see the "Great Depression" if you are blinded by ideology to the more recent events of the GOP's great depression of 2008.
4
Only a very few cases of Covid-19 in Russia what are they doing right?
1
@Gregory Probably suppressing the truth which is exactly what our “leadership” is attempting now. What a shock!
16
What a wonderful news for the anti-capitalist crowd, right. Down down & down with Capitalism.
- Ilhan, AOC, Sanders and other AC friends
4
So Kudlow is now backtracking from his comment of 48 hours ago that we have this contained.
Yeah...right Larry...that will calm the markets.
3
Right, yeah, and so what’s Mister I Alone Can Fix It doing besides rage-watching FOX News?
8
This is so very simple………
Using…..
Donald Trump's 1st Rule of Logic:
If it's bad - always Obama's fault
If it's good - always Trump's accomplishment
3
Without QE and without subsequent asset price inflation ( initiated by artificial government or semi Private Fed ) , DOW should have been trading at 12000 . This hike is deceptive destructive and anti capitalistic in nature .This is not the product of the invisible hand of A Smith but is the product of the active hands of the crony capitalism .
Also the moment oil price is not negotiated through dollar ( oil price in dollar is like USA having the gold mines which keep on replenishing itself automatically and no country outside USA possess one . Not only that it's like as if each country needs Gold to survive. That what the Petro dollars - our 911 nemesis Saudi, has bestowed us for over 50 years .) our stock will plummet and dollar's value will come down to the level not seen for 50 years.
1
"Larry Kudlow, the director of the White House’s National Economic Council, said on Friday that the United States economy is 'fundamentally sound' and that he did not expect that the coronavirus outbreak would do long-term damage to the economy even if more cases emerge."
Kudlow's comment may be the scariest indicator of all, as he has an astounding and well-documented track record of being wrong about the economy. Just a few examples:
Bill Clinton's tax policy (which led to the largest peacetime economic expansion in US history)? Kudlow said it would destroy the economy.
The invasion of Iraq? Kudlow said that it would "elevate the stock market by several thousand points." Didn't happen. Markets stayed flat, and then...
The 2008 crash? Kudlow it wasn't going to happen.
Any questions?
4
When did the Fed’s sole mandate become to prop up hyper-inflated market indices every time there’s a sell off?
The last four Fed chairs are guilty of perjury for testifying before Congress otherwise. Greenspan, Bernanke, Yellen and Powell should all be behind bars!
2
Crushing markets after bubble rallies: It:s a Republican habit.
7
Here they are the usual suspects on this thread gloating because of the stock market losses. Forget the coronavirus, the true malignant sickness that is afflicting the left is TDS.
2
Name one beneficial act or program from this gang.
Thought so.
3
In a NY Times op-ed article (2/25/2020), Michael T. Osterholm and Mark Olshaker estimate the replication or r0 factor at a disturbing 2.6; meaning that secondary infections number 2.6 from the primary infection. They state: "After 10 generations of transmission, with each taking about five or six days, that one initial case has spawned more than 3,500, most with no or mild symptoms, yet probably infectious."
After 1 generation, 1 case gives rise to 2.6 cases. After generation 2, these 2.6 cases give rise to 2.6 more or
(1)(2.6)(2.6)= 6.8 cases; or [2.6**2 = 6.8 cases]. After 3 generations, since 2.6**3 = 17.6 new cases arise. After 4 generations, since 2.6**4 = 45.7 cases. After 5 generations, 2.6**5 = 118.8. Etc., etc.: until After 8 generations, (2.6)**8 = 2,088.3, new cases arise. After 8 generations about 3,393 total cases occur.
Although simple, this model does reflect how quickly the virus replicates. With an r0 greater than 1, say 1.5, then
(1)(1.5)**8= 25.6, and cases grow (25.6 > 1). If the r0 factor is reduced to less than 1, replications fall below replacement levels and the virus declines in number. For ex.:
(1)(0.99)**8 = 0.92, and then (0.92< 1); whereas for a stable infection: 1(1.0)**8= 1.0, since 1 = 1.0.
In re: the viral experience on the Diamond Princess cruise ship, they state: "While confined, these people were forced to breathe recycled air for two weeks." Proving only: "How effective the virus is at spreading."
2/28 F 12:15p Greenville NC
2
Rich people losing electronic credits. Why am I not weeping?
1
@Cloudy
You should be, because it is not just rich people. It's middle-class people with real world responsibilities as I said above. Wall Street is the tide that lifts all boats.
That said, the market was probably overpriced anyway, but at this point it is reacting to our country and its pandemic policy being rudderless. -- thegamesmenplay.com
Trump’s response is unsettling.
2
Perhaps 45 can throw paper towels at the stock market.
16
Not since GW Bush have we seen such a meltdown. What do now and then have in common?
3
I can think of nothing more worrisome than hearing Larry Kudlow say not to worry.
11
Trump presidency in free fall.
Pity.
Pity it took this long.
4
With a number of epidemics in recent years (SARS, Eboli, Corona) it is hard to understand why we don't have a robust supply of masks, antivirals, etc. Its hard to understand why we are not simply installing masses of hand sanitizer stations. It's hard to understand why we still rely on the single sources like Chiba for medications and precursor chemics without having a 6 month supply on hand.
As individuals I think we can protect ourselves by doing things like having hand sanitizers, disinfecting wipes and quality masks / respirators on hand. Perhaps simply washing our hands, not putting them near our eyes, nose, and mouth would make a big difference. Or staying home when we are sick, suspending travel, and avoiding crowded areas.
7
If the White House says there won't be permanent damage, suddenly I'm worried that there will be permanent damage, you know? Our interest rates are already low, our deficit is already high, and our leader is dodging responsibility after years of budget cuts. What could go wrong?
14
I've known for year that the stock market is a gambling casino. The people who gamble there know what it is as well.
Since my IRA is very, very important to me, with an awareness that the man at the top, Donald Trump, has done nothing positive for the economy but instead acts impulsively and recklessly, last fall I took everything out of stocks and bonds and put it all in Federal Treasury Bills.
Now my principal is safe, so even with a major crash of this bloated market, at least I won't lose my investment.
10
Very wise.
@Porter gambling? Sure if you're investing in penny stocks. General stock trends are up not down and most people make money over a long term period.
3
The coronavirus is only part of the story. Trumps dismantling of the support American science based health organizations and the pandemic departments once fully functioning to defend our country from this type of threat has crippled our preparedness and ability to respond to this type of situation we are now in. Trumps response? Silence the scientists and muzzle the press. Meanwhile this threat grows.
10
Remember why so much manufacturing has been outsourced to China over the past few decades: cheap labor, few protections for workers, unions are illegal. American workers were too expensive with their pesky unions, minimum wage laws, and OSHA regulations. So, seemingly politically correct American companies like Nike and Apple got their goods made in China. Here we are.
5
I was a technology stock analyst at Bear Stearns when Larry Kudlow was the economist. Larry was good for entertainment...and darned little else. Making statements and claims unencumbered by supporting data was his frequent MO back then, and it certainly is so today. A perfect fit for the Ostrich Administration: fact and doubt free. The nation deserves better.
21
Two global crises, twelve years apart, both in desperate need of competent and honest leadership, drawing on the best minds this country can muster. The cavalry arrived just in time under Barack Obama in 2008. Now we seem to be in even greater need of competence, expertise and honesty and who do we have but ten more months of Donald Trump, who could very well be re-elected for four more years.
We are under a very dark cloud right now and a storm of unknown destruction is arriving.
12
Stock market plunge due to pandemic? Don't believe it, big money just found a way to manipulate the market so the prices go down and stocks get gobbled up by those who have most of the money in the first place
2
@huh
You really need to find out how investing works. Losing the value of your currently high priced stocks just to buy stocks at a resulting low price? Genius!
9
@JP if I had any free cash, i'd be buying soon.
@huh
Yeah, umm that doesn't answer JP's point.
I have been actively trading stocks for over 35 years. This situation is different than the Thai baht crisis, the Long Term Management Crisis, dot com bubble, 911, 2008 Financial crisis. The difference is that the uncertainty, which is the mortal enemy of markets everywhere, is almost completely out of the control of human hands. Even with 911, which was not a financial event, per se, there was the feeling that no one does war better than the US, and that eventually we would prevail. (rightly or wrongly) This crisis is a natural event, a black swan, that brings up every instinctual fear humans have harbored since we evolved as human sapiens 200,000 years ago. The fear of total annihilation. It may be completely irrational or not, but the fear is there. At the same time, that fear will be ameliorated, once the announcement comes human trials have been positive, or some drug company has stepped up to advance a vaccine. The question is when will this occur. I reflect on John Maynard Keynes who once said "Markets can remain irrational a lot longer than you can remain solvent."
15
Emergency preparedness and response can mitigate natural and market disruptions to keep them from becoming disasters. Here, we need functioning government - universal health care and financial regulations.
Republican policy, as personified by the Trump administration, is a political success but a governmental failure.
If we are determined, we can do better.
3
I had no doubts, back since 45*’s inauguration, that if our country was faced with a major dire situation, such as a war, major cyber attack, and yes, a pandemic, that the Trump administration would be controlling the flow of information that is needed to inform the citizens. Controlling, obviously, has the potential of manipulation.
So here we are, today, with the Coronavirus. Obvious to many, that the Commander in Chief, in his press conference on Wednesday had, or attempted to create an alternative reality of which he has vast room to blame others and eventually he is the victim.
Ask yourself, is this what you could, or, would, live with for another four long years. Would there be a USA left, or would the history books describe us as “ the US that once was. “
19
I don't see how lowering interest rates to increase consumer demand will help all that much if people are afraid to go out and spend. A huge percentage of our economy is based on services - service industries will likely be harder hit - you can't buy a service on-line and have it delivered to your door - and if there is a quarantine even delivery of consumer goods could be slowed or at least drastically impacted. We need a global response indeed, but this Administration's track record of working with global institutions isn't good. And worst of all they had squandered their credibility due to constant lying. At a time like this we need to have faith and trust in the information our government is providing and right now I think there is a lot of skepticism about what Pence and his group will say. Look at Mulvaney's comments as an example - it's not really much of a crises - it's just the media out to get Trump and by the way how come you are not reporting on the wonderful father -son relationship between Trump and his son. This is an example of why so many of us do not trust these people.
12
@dairyfarmersdaughter
Interest rates would only really help after quarantines are lifted, so there's likely that incentive to do so. Even there, they don't have too many lower notches.
1
Trump placed the man who created the first AIDS outbreak in decades in charge of responding to our nation's response to a global pandemic.
Trump has placed a lobbyist-lawyer in charge of the agency responsible for protecting the nation's health.
Trump has placed an English Major from a third tier university who played an economist on TV at his side to advise him on the economy.
What could go wrong?
44
As someone pointed out there are no Coronovirus cases in major US cities.
This simply isn't possible.
Obviously, if you don't test and assume that anyone coughing has seasonal influenza you have no cases. But that is a delusion that will backfire mightily.
Now once this delusion is busted the economic effects will be fairly dramatic.
31
Like it or not, our economy is tied to China's ability to produce goods which we sell here. Until China can start producing goods again, and that includes foodstuffs, our economy will be hamstrung no matter what the stock market does. If you can't get the computer made, you can't sell a promise.
As for dealing with the coronavirus. It is emerging, and there is no herd immunity, so the spread will be harder to contain, unless the virus mutates into a more benign form. Right now the mortality rate is higher than for flu but less than for SARS or MERS. As is almost always true, the most affected will be the young, the old, and the immunocompromised. The problem we face is a CDC which has had funding severely cut, with less personnel to verify test results for the virus. What we have are untrained people to deal with a healthcare crisis, as we have seen with the unprotected workers assigned to handle the evacuees from China. We have a person heading HHS who has no training nor experience in dealing with a healthcare crisis. We have a person spearheading the effort to respond to the possible outbreak of the virus here whose response to controlling the spread of HIV when he was governor of Indiana was "thoughts and prayers" while he slashed funding for needle exchange programs. All of this can absolutely be laid at the feet of Trump. The buck stops with him.
25
I think early reports are actually suggesting that the mortality rate has been lower for children so far, which is unusual. Those at risk seem to be older folks, people with compromised immune systems, and people with respitory issues and smokers. Otherwise, I think this is a pretty good write up.
3
@Diana and that's the problem. The world needs to stop letting China be the powerhouse to economies around the globe. It's obvious China isn't the type of government we want making decisions that could put the world into a recession.
2
The top virologist at the Berlin Charite Medical University and its research department, announced today that between 60 and 70% of all Germans could be infected with the Corona Virus.
The problem is that a fairly large group of people doesn't show symptoms, yet will infect many others they are in contact with.
The predication is that It will take up to 2 years, if not even more, to have stopped the further spreading of the virus.
5
It's like a common cold. It's obvious that it will spread everywhere. And, just like the common cold, it's not severe.
2
@Paula The common cold doesn't normally put people on ventilators, nor kill 34-year-old doctors like Li Wenliang.
8
@Paula
Sorry, death rate from this so far is an order of magnitude grater than even the complications from the common (adenovirus, rhinovirus, paraflu) cold.
7
Freaked Out by the Stock Market? Take a Deep Breath—but only if you are wearing your N-95.
1
... and President Trump is on a plane to Mar-a-lago to play golf and promote his private resort.
14
I am surprised that the NYT has not yet published the news that this morning, the WHO has raised the global risk of the Corona virus as "Very High", the highest level that the organization can declare.
11
Fear not, fellow Americans.
• Trump is already golfing as it is a Friday.
• Pence has already let Jesus take the wheel.
See, we are feeling safe already!
43
So much for the Trump stock market.
It is time for the American electorate to vote him
and his corrupt and incompetent administration
out of office. His Republican enablers should be thrown out to the political wilderness with him
as well. Good riddance! Everything Trump touches inevitably goes bankrupt!
21
How ironic if it’s the stock plunge that kills us and not the Coronavirus. Nature doesn’t need to bloody its hands it just needs to know what buttons to push on us for us to do it to ourselves.
6
First off the market has been overvalued and we all should have been prepared for a correction. But to many stupid people believed Trumps nonsense that the market could increase indefinitely because of the stable genius. He has squandered every financial measure to help in a situation like this.
Furthermore the stable genius cuts started in 2018, as the White House focused on eliminating funding to Obama-era disease security programs. In March of that year, Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer, whose job it was to lead the U.S. response in the event of a pandemic, abruptly left the administration and his global health security team was disbanded.
And lastly trump selects Pence the man who had the disastrous response to HIV that led to HIV epidemic under his watch in Indiana. don't worry Pence is taking this seriously he is on his way to Florida to campaign.
23
@lisa
Actually, many correction / recession indicators have recently eased off. It definitely wasn't a bubble, but even a slowing rate of return would not induce this sort of strong event-connected correction.
4000 points in 5 days?
This is no longer a correction!
We’re in rout territory now.
And yes, t is in FL. golfing.
1
Wash your hands. Frequently and keep your fingernails short. Drug stores, Amazon, etc. have plenty of pre surgical soap for patients who are about to have surgery. This stuff will kill any virus. Masks are for medical staff.
4
@Win
Masks are also for already-infected people. Masks do little to keep a healthy person healthy. Basic hygiene as you noted is much more effective.
5
@Win,it’s no fun without hysteria.
1
@JP, that's a given so yes indeed.
The Covid-19 pathogen should be recatagorized as a mental illness. And it isn't there yet.
So the leaders of Wall street are our greatest stewards of the economy?
The men on the White House even on a crisis like this still divides Americans. I wonder if the virus knows who's democrat or republican.
1
In deference to the renowned Jeremy Siegel, Penn/Wharton Prof. of Finance (Phd. MIT, et al) who was on CNBC this morning speaking about the market and its recovery "in the spring" --- automatically caused my involuntary mind's "Analogy-Thinking" [George Lakoff] to pop this scene into my consciousness:
https://www.imdb.com/video/vi489947929
However, in no deference to Emperor Trump's moronic and non-economics degreed Director of the National Economic Council, Larry Kudlow, who is a former TV personality who became Economics Editor at (radical right) National Review Online, and In December 2007, NRO published a Kudlow article entitled Bush Boom Continues, in which he asserted the economy would continue to expand for years to come. The Great Recession, the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression, began that month. [Source Wiki]
Is it any wonder that intelligent people dealing with this dramatic 'market correction' might differ with Emperor Trump forcing himself on TV to supposedly address the Covid-19 crisis and save American lives, while obviously just trying to hype the market in order to promote his unlikely and sordid re-election?
But, no worry, the market crash is not because of the Covid virus, but rather because Emperor Trump and some before him, have lied about the path for America's real dream of democracy --- but have sold-out to the very thing that the American "Revolution Against Empire" [Justin du Rivage] was about overcoming: EMPIRE.
11
You can’t fix a problem until you first acknowledge it.
9
There must be a mouse running around the trading floor.
4
Trump has no idea how to control this. MAGAs will suffer for it
8
Wow, Democrats come save us. You know just what to do, raise taxes.
1
@MiguelM If that's what you got from the article, God help us all.
9
@MiguelM or maybe duplicate Obama's robust pandemic response infrastructure which was dismantled by this clown for what good reason?
6
So far this is like 5% the damage of what the Flu does every year and vaccine is on the way. What this outbreak can help in developing is a concerted protocol for the next ones that will come our way. Making such efforts with nations like communist China, Iran and the like will not be easy, rather impossible. The big casualty here is doubtlessly China.
@sebastian
"And vaccine is on the way." The minimum time will be a year and a half, according to Anthony Fauci of the NIH.
1
@sebastian a vaccine is at least a year away. Vaccines prevent, they don't cure, and you can't risk injecting the entire population with an untested vaccine. Animal testing, then small scale human testing have to be completed once a vaccine has been created.
1
@sebastian
We are three months in to the emergence of this virus, just over one month into international spread.
The prototype vaccine that shipped to NIH is 9-12 months away from being deployed to the general population. The current infection will not be treated by vaccine, only possibly by anti-virals which already exist and could be approved in a single set of trials.
3
With the disruption of the supply chain, it is obvious that the chickens have come to roost for all the US companies, such as Apple, who use Chinese slave labor to make their product.
9
@Southern Boy - Or like the Trump's who make their products in China and use Chinese steel in their buildings.
1
@Southern Boy
In light of that criticism I hope you don't own a single product made in China.
1
@Southern Boy
80% of what you buy at Walmart is imported from China.
2
And Trump's man Kudlow says the economy will be fine. And the sun rose today in the east. He would be gone by lunchtime if he said anything else. There's really no use in paying attention to the WH or its minions. And now that they've gagged the scientists in the NIH and elsewhere from communicating with the people of our nation, we'll need to get the facts elsewhere, from doctors unaffiliated with the US government, for example. Meanwhile, the TV networks run PSAs asking us to "support freedom" in their broadcasts. The Trump goal of dictatorship is having to move its timetable up, to cover the land with its lies better and earlier than it otherwise would've done, to shut off freedom of information faster. All to support its fake claims of need or desire for authoritarian rule under the bizarre Trump, who can hardly get a sane sentence out of his mouth. It's mind-boggling. The sheer madness afoot is stunning.
15
In H.G. Wells' "The War of the Worlds", an unstoppable enemy was eventually, "destroyed and humanity was saved by the littlest things, which God, in His wisdom, had put upon this Earth."
It may turn out that the seemingly unstoppable advance of Donald Trump's viral politics may, in affect, come at the hands of another virus.
12
I wonder how much of the stock market gyration is due to mindless positive feedback generated by algorithmic trading.
2
Why don't they close down the stock market? Just until things calm down.
1
Because mega investors and billionaires are buying more stocks as the prices go down.
10
@Paula,
Correct, in fact now is the best time to buy when stocks are cheaper because when they go up in value you make money. That's whats so great about Capitalism! That's why Sanders and his supporters hate it. Thank you.
@B
You buy on the dip. Plus, it would create a greater panic and could cause a run on the banks. -- thegamesmenplay.com
The Whistle-blower who reported that HHS staff engaged Corona Virus returnees without protective gear.
Let us no forget about her.
She is a senior supervisor who reported to her bosses, including reporting to the Office of Secretary Azar, that there were serious breaches of protocol when the returnees were processed at Travis AFB.
For this she was given an immediate transfer to an undesirable post without supervisory responsibility and told that if she did not accept the transfer within 15 days she would be fired.
The last whistleblower was treated abonminable by Trump and his team.
Let us all (NYT included) keep an eagle eye on what happens to this woman.
If officials are punished for speaking the truth about Corona virus, we will have become China.
32
@John B thanks for that. It was so horrifying to read of her plight - pleading for anonymity, after responding so professionally, responsibly, and with concern, as to escape the wrath and possible/probable physical harm that plagues those who speak the truth.
8
You've got to love the internationalist handwringing over the supply chain havoc linked to the contagion. First you depend on a nation that co-opted American industry, in concert with the plutocracy, while simultaneously threatening them with war. Those championing the TPP can now look at India, the preferred democratic choice, now a demonized target of the confused global low ballers with it's nationalist surge leading to braying pundit outrage.
None of this will deter our domestic profiteers, who've promoted treason like economic televangelists.
3
Finance types are such 'fraidy cats.
2
A proxy for our confidence in the Trump administration. “We have nothing to fear, but Trump himself”
8
Mike Pence who doesn’t believe in Biology 101, ie evolution, is in charge of conronavirus response. We are so done for.
17
The one thing Putin has no control over.
7
Just in time for the weekend cool off. But watch out Monday after the wives have their ears.
2
No one has any confidence in the Trump administration. This is contributing to the slide in stock prices.
10
“No one” is right. Even if Trump’s sycophantic followers cover for him, even if his racist hangers-on make excuses for him, even if his Senate cronies all allow him to escape any consequences for his corruption, and even if his voters want to make good money at the expense of our country and their fellow citizens — deep down they KNOW he and his crew are incompetent and clownish at best, and criminal at worse, and they know the lies their “leaders” spew are legendary. They demonstrate their knowing when it starts to threaten their wallets. o
1
If trump had maintained the health alert system and services in place from the Obama administration and curtailed his destructive impulses, my bet is the stock market would not have fallen this fair. This is part a panic of distrust in this administration.
6
@jerome stoll
Does that also explain the similar drop in the Asian and European markets; not to mention South American and African markets?
1
@fFinbar They have there own problems they are responding too. We have your president.
1
Is Trump capable of handling the first existential crisis of his presidency? Not likely if he will not even acknowledge the enormity of this potential national disaster.
9
Not to worry. I'm sure that if at some point the Trump administration asks for government help to stabilize the economy he'll receive the same
bi-partisan support Obama received from the GOP during the 2008 financial crisis.
To paraphrase Alan Dershowitz, the GOP was right then (to oppose government intervention) but more right today (to ask for it.)
7
Democrats have approved more money for Trump's trade war victims, the farmers, than Republicans approved for the Detroit automakers, even though it was entirely self inflicted harm. So what are you trying to say? That Dems try to help people and don't play politics with people's livelihoods? Then yes.
2
@mjw
Democrats have approved more money? Democrats?
And the next round of bailouts for the farmers? Blame Democrats for that too?
While the GOP cuts, cuts, cuts money for the programs that aid the poor?
1
Since April 2019, I have been waiting for the overpriced market to plummet. It will take awhile for it to come back and it won't be something upon which Trump can hang his hat during his re-election bid.
But don't you feel better now that Pence has his prayers at work to save us from the coronavirus?
22
While there's virtually no known outbreak of corona virus cases in the US so far, things could change any day now. That means there's still time to put governmental actions in place that might help limit the spread and eventual economic fallout for companies and individuals.
Options could include government subsidized mandatory leave WITH PAY, and without regard for citizenship, for those with febrile or respiratory illnesses until cleared of dangerous contagion. This allows work to go on with the least likelihood that disease spreads in the workplace. It might also help limit influenza cases.
Banning of large public gatherings once problems appear imminent but before we have widespread cases. Sorry, no more live political rallies, but maybe online rallies will become a thing.
Temporary government subsidized healthcare as needed to cover ALL individuals, via Medicare or Medicaid for all epidemic related illnesses and complications, again regardless of citizenship status. People need to seek appropriate care as early as possible for diagnosis and quarantining.
And school closures with government support as needed for tele schooling. We'll need subsidized internet access for low income students and probably many teachers as well.
These are just a few ideas and I'm sure there are plenty others. Unfortunately, hopes and prayers would essentially be no plan at all.
10
Great plan but our government is too incompetent to do any of it. Trump is still in denial and with already cut down workforce and budget thanks to Trump, the CDC is already behind the curve.
8
Others have already mentioned this but I thought I'd add it to the list: mandatory paper absentee ballots ASAP for all elections going forward. No more standing in line to vote or sharing potentially contaminated voting machines. There's also the additional benefit of an audit trail if vote counts are tampered with.
3
Coronavirus is causing issues with supply of goods and materials, and it is affecting travel industry as well. This can have ripple effect on other industries as well. How exactly are lower interest rates going to address either of these main issues? Sure, cheap money would drive more risky behavior in the stock market as well as leveraged buying.
7
@Tara Gotta get our billionaires to buy the dip somehow.
2
I can only speak for myself, but I would gladly endure some pain in the stock market if it means fickle voters in battleground states would vote against the White House incumbent.
52
You would not say that if you or your loved ones were to be infected with COVID-19. I want Trump gone but not at the expense of people’s health or lives.
2
I think the dip in the markets has happened too soon. People have the collective memory of a goldfish. November is so far away and I think the markets will recover by then.
4
They won’t. They will blame the Democrats
1
At such a time should we be concerned about the markets or how do we get rid of this virus? Markets will go up and down but we all have only one life. Let us pray to remain healthy irrespective of where stock market goes? Life and health is far more precious. No money can buy us these.
7
"America needs you Harry Truman. You'd know just what to do..."
2
This will not be resolved on Twitter.
24
This is not the right time for a central bank rate cut! It will stimulate NOTHING. Save the stimulus for future infrastructure projects. In the coming months unemployment will skyrocket.
4
Ideology is a factor, here. While the central government responded quickly and forcefully, the incident needn't have occurred if vendors at the Wuhan market had not been selling illegal wild-life. Now, as it is too late, the central government has instilled the ban. China is too slow to respond to these important issues like a "tall" organization. Yet, when the U.S. actions FONOPS in the South China Sea, they are quick to respond. Communist China is relatively young at 72 years (in power,) though is 2020 is a dinosaur. Now, through democracy and multi-lateral ism, the international community must clean up after their mess. That is not xenophobia, just the reality of this situation.
The comments on this story and other similar ones expose a huge financial literacy gap. Too many to reply to about how absolutely wrong the ones saying it’s essentially the end of the world as we know it. Only some moderate percentage of last year’s huge gains have been given back.
Really sad but not surprising how little people really understand, but a very strong case for never ever privatizing retirement savings plans or Social Security.
11
@beth Well beth, are you predicting that there will be no more losses? Would you like to make a small wager?
2
@Jack Toner I am making no predictions. My comment is on the current status. So many of these comments about the current status are complete hysteria and I think it is absurd.
1
@beth Obviously you are are not in the market to make a statement like that. I make a living in the market, right now, and the profits all the way back to mid 2018 are gone and till going down.
If I contract the virus I care less who gave it to me but I care if people make excuses instead of putting every possible resource into the eradication.
3
The coverage of this is getting out of control. The fact that the level of coverage is fueling now a stock rout is borderline unethical manipulation of news media. It doesn't need to be headline news everyday when the numbers aren't even that serious. The stretch to make everything seem so exacerbated with 'this many nations' and 'these people stuck on a cruise', 'these people stuck on a flight' is honestly insulting to readers intelligence. Compared to so many other health crisis or actual world news events this is not a big issue.
Nine million people die of starvation and three million people die of water related health issues EVERY YEAR. Talk about actual issues not manufactured crisis that then create economic crisis making things worse for people.
14
@Joe So stock market professionals are so spooked by news coverage that they're not actually analyzing the situation? Interesting thesis.
14
Let me guess, Dr. Rush Limbaugh told you it was the common cold? Also, if you want to see a world where the news can't report seriously about the virus because "it'd cause distruptions", look across the Pacific.
4
@Joe
Trump? Is that you?
5
I'm a bit bothered by all this talk of stocks and economics. Why don't we focus on the people being killed by the virus and how to help them? The stock market is something we made up to serve our lives, not a priority
3
@TomD There are articles about the virus, its victims and the fight against it. This isn't one of them. This article is about the impact on the stock market. Did someone make you read it?
BTW a stock market crash can lead to a recession or even a depression. Would it be alright with you if people who lose their jobs think about that?
6
@TomD So you never want to retire? A newspaper has different sections for different topics...
2
The worst plummet since 2008.
It's like deja vu all over again.
3
@Vance
I am fortunate to be stock-less.
Well people now you know the Stock Market is not an accurate reflection of the economy. That being said it is neither a reflection of Trump's genius or his more obvious incompetence.
4
This is all speculation and the billionaires want it to happen. They were talking since last year about a global crisis. They just needed an excuse to make it happen. Coronavirus ended up being a perfect excuse. Now right before the stock market plummeted down, in a coordinated move, all these billionaires and mega investors sold their stocks. The markets drop. They buy more stocks all over again, now at a stupidly cheap price. And that's how they make profits. They don't make profit if the stocks keep rising indefinitely. They NEED short and long cycles of investment. And in may countries, they don't pay a single cent in taxes for that. The poor people become poorer and lose their jobs as companies go bankrupt, while billionaires celebrate in their magical world of stocks. This panic around coronavirus exists only to feed their speculative financial actions. We know, and THEY Know that coronavirus is not dangerous, it's just a common cold. But they will pretend it is the plague to make profits. I don't fear coronavirus, I fear greedy billionaires who don't pay taxes.
8
@Paula
You should fear both. And of course this coronavirus SARS variant is certainly not “the common cold“.
3
Trump has spent the better part of his Presidency gutting government's infrastructure necessary to fight this pandemic.
He thinks that all of those doctors who were fired can be rehired overnight.
He's more concerned with the stock market's impact on his reelection chances, instead of the health and well being of the country.
He's appointed Mike Pence as the "expert" coronavirus czar, and appoints medical doctors to run government housing.
His Secretary of Commerce thinks the virus is good for the American economy.
He thinks the virus will just go away when the weather get's warmer. "Who knows".
It's all a big conspiracy to get Trump!
They deny reality, as Pence did while many died in Indiana during the HIV crisis.
This is the face of incompetence.
Too bad it takes a stock market crash to make people see the truth.
16
The people who blame some on this to Trump or who proudly claim that they would gladly lose money just to see him out, are despicable and full of hatred.
This is just a huge bad luck. Nothing to do with economy, or governments, or anything else. We just need to fight this as best we can and accept the loses as tremendous bad luck.
I would not even blame the Chinese although after SARS they should have probably known better than to leave those wild animals being sold as if risk-free.
3
It is not “huge bad luck” to fire the CDC pandemic response team, slash budgets for HHS and Homeland Security responsible for dealing with viral threats.
Only trump did that.
And when the inevitable numbers of people die because of it you can bet it will be trump who blames someone else for what he alone decided to do.
2
@ss So you missed the part where your hero wants to cut the CDC's budget. That's the Center for Disease Control. And the part where he dismantled the teams Obama had created to deal with just such a global health emergency.
That's not bad luck. That's stupidity on an almost unimaginable scale. You think I'm full of hatred because I can see that? Why can't you see it?
So rather than just shouting "Fake News" or listening to whatever lies Hannity & Limbaugh are telling why don't you do a little research yourself?
You have a computer or at least a smart phone. Here's a couple of names to get you started: Rear Admiral Tim Ziemer, Tom Bossert. You can also check if it's true that Trump wanted to cut the CDC's budget. Rush & Sean won't tell you about these things. That doesn't mean they didn't happen.
2
Aren’t you glad Trump cut funding to the CDC and the NHI.
2
Three things Trump is thinking:
1—Ivanka. So sexy!
2—Golf. But first, buffet!
3—How can I make money off this virus?
13
A most important corollary:
As the markets collapse with the pending coronavirus pandemic and we look to the White House, what do we find?
A president who has zero credibility and is, as even his enablers know, a pathological liar.
14
@srwdm Thank goodness things aren’t so bad that Trump can’t hold a rally in South Carolina and then golf this weekend! If he stayed in the Whitehouse we might think something was up!! We’ll see what happens. Like a miracle (code word for sure) it could go away!
Hillary, Emails, Benghazi, Democrats, Obama...wait for it!
13
POP!
Did you hear that?
3
The stock market falls. The stock market rises. The sun came up in the east today. Ho-hum.
5
@CABOT So you've never celebrated a stock market rise? Congratulations.
There's a fellow in DC who has celebrated such rises. A lot. Perhaps you should drop him a line.
1
I think that even without the coronavirus the market was headed for some kind of correction, though not nearly as steep or deep.
2
Correct. The market was bloated with speculation.
3
This crisis is a perfect storm of Republican incompetence. By limiting access to healthcare and by lowering interest rates, Republicans have compromised our medical and market preparedness and response.
Trump is treating it as a PR problem and predictably turning to spin and censorship. In this he is following fellow autocrat Xi, who having contributed to the outbreak by lying and withholding information, is now declaring victory and extolling China's leadership.
23
AMEN.
2
The only thing the leader of this country, the President of the United States, is concerned about right now, is, "How is this going to affect me?". Which should surprise no one considering it's the only question Donald Trump has ever asked since the day he was born.
It's also the only question the members of his political party ever ask themselves, "How is this going to affect me?"
For them, all other questions are IRRELEVANT.
26
Trump put Pence in charge of the Coronavirus just in case it turns into a pandemic here in the US. Trump can say “Pence did a poor job”, therefore Trump will not get the blame for any of it in the eyes of his cult. The GOP is so dedicated to Trump that they sit and do nothing, relying on their lies and conspiracy theories being thrown about on FOX news/Rush Limbaugh that the Democrats, the democratic candidates, Rod Rosenstein and his sister are responsible for all this. Oh, and let’s not forget that this virus was cooked up in a lab in China to make sure the markets crash so Trump doesn’t win reelection in November.
10
Have we gone Corona Virus crazy? How many people did the flu, the common cold, and ordinary heart attacks killed during the same period?
8
if the market goes bust that could be the end of T, unfortunately we don’t have a decent replacement. We all knew this was coming..but talk about Divine intervention !
3
House of cards collapsing.
This is Trump’s history.
10
I have never believed a single president is responsible for a good or bad stock market as their are multiple factors that move our markets. That said, the fact that the current denizen of the White House does nothing in the middle of what is clearly a global pandemic and the resulting market crash can be laid directly at his door. Tweeting, lying, and blaming Democrats is will not help in a world where the fate of our country is tied to that of the world. Nor will building walls. If this does not cause those who support this lying conman to finally abandon ship, I don't know what will. His incompetence should be clear to everyone.
16
Hmmmm...wonder how short sales are doing.
2
We need a headline that reads,”Investors cause recession over fear of recession.”
8
Thank you China for your total lack of transparency ,unwillingness to cooperate with the international community and your wild animal market places which spawned this in the first place
8
Obviously Donald needs to fire the Fed Chair. It's a conspiracy, and Donnie is the victim. Then, he needs to fire Fauci for daring to tell the truth about viral pandemics. How dare him!
12
The story contains no comments from Mike Pence. Not even a “no comment” comment.
C’mon Mike! You’re the man now. What say you? A trembling nation needs your soothing fatherly reassurance that all will be well by tomorrow. It will, right? Mike?
8
@Ralph Averill
He’ll pray it away.
[And in holy writ, does he not represent what is often referred to as a whited sepulcher?]
2
Bring out the Mnuchin!
7
I wish they’d seal off CA for a few weeks. A coworker is flying to L.A. to visit family for a week. I’m certain she’ll be exposed and bring it to our office. I’m starting to freak out a bit. I wish our company had a plan, but we’re a small firm with no HR dept.
I desperately need this government to require my employer to give us a plan and perhaps prevent people from going to CA for awhile...at least test every person back flying out of there.
Yep. Freaking out.
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Some advice...?
Worry about the things you CAN control. Like sensible people are saying, be prepared: Stock up on some stuff in case there are quarantines, avoid sick people, wash your hands a lot. That’s all you can do, but doing that much will make you feel in control of that which you can be.
Let go of the fear of that which you CANNOT control. The illness is here already and fear and panic are not going to help.
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Thank you. I needed to read that. I appreciate your feedback.
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Here's something hopeful:
Israeli scientists: 'In a few weeks, we will have coronavirus vaccine'
https://m.jpost.com/HEALTH-SCIENCE/Israeli-scientists-In-three-weeks-we-will-have-coronavirus-vaccine-619101
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Cool.
Can I have a pony? And all the candy I want?
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@MIKEinNY, now if only they can cure what afflicts irrational traders.
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It’s a good thing that we didn’t waste rate cuts and tax cuts in times of relative prosperity and saved them for use in times of impending recession!
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Investor confidence depends on measurable economic data and analysis, as well as on immeasurables, such as intuition, gut instinct and rumors. Investor confidence will not be restored if our government appears as interested in information control as it is in epidemic control.
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Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are looking better and better. Seers, indeed, when it relates to placing all our hopes on Wall Street and high finance. What say you now, Mr. Trump.
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@Kathy Lollock you think Sanders or any Democrat will help the stock market? It'll plunge a lot more than it has this week in the first day if either is elected.
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@Mike That's the same gibberish that was spouted when Obama came on....
Check the market over his tenure please and get back to us.
Yeah. Free health care for all is scary for investors in Big Insurance and Big Pharma. You don’t rake in $50 billion in profit each year by actually providing health care!
Free college is scary for Big Banks. Gotta yolk our young to high interest debt!
The irony of it all is that the pandemic will force the US to embrace socialism at least in the near term. As the mortality count rises, fortunes wane, and mobility is restricted the populous will demand that the government take drastic, decisive and undemocratic action including mandatory rationing and perhaps even martial law and the seizing of property. There’s are few other options since individual freedom is not our friend during a crisis like this.
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People will always panic. Look to historical data for comfort. It's not the end of the world as we know it. This too shall pass. This downturn will present buying opportunities for stocks that would otherwise be price prohibitive. Think AAPL, TSLA, GOOG, etc. I only wish I had enough disposable income to buy some these stocks. Unfortunately I do not have such a luxury on social security income.
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@El Guapo Guess who has the disposable income? It's the billionaires or top 1%. So rich gets richer.
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So the governments main defense against Corona virus is to reduce interest rates? I'm sure that will help calm the panic of rich people.
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Please, this is the Fed Reserve which determines interest rates...not THE GOVERNMENT, such as it is. That belongs to Trump right now.
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The. OST effective way to slow this diseases spread is to make it hard to travel. Do everything possible to prevent any unnecessary travel. Thus NO TOURISM. NO OVERSEAS BUSINESS TRIPS ETC. IF TRAVEL IS SEVERELY CURTAILED THE RATE OF SPREAD MAY SLOW ENOUGH TO BUY TIME TO PREPARE VACCINES
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All this for a virus that, by all accounts, is just about as virulent as the flu. Are we also going to start canceling school, work, and travel every single flu season? You can't even get most people to get their flu shot.
Yes, this is serious and should be taken seriously--but is it really 'throw the world into a panic and stop all economic activity dead in the water' serious? By all accounts, it doesn't seem like it.
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Meant MOST ABOVE not most. Also I suppose if the world is willing to “sacrifice” the elderly then we can do nothng
Please read more. This is NOT the ordinary yearly flu.
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@Kat The mortality rate is much higher than the flu and not at all limited to older people, as if they are dispensable. Anyone with weakened immune systems are at great risk. That includes many of our children too! I for one, prefer extreme measures regardless of sacred market consequences to protect children above all.
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Many of the gains in the markets during the Trump administration have correlated with the removal of the 'safety nets' put in place by Obama's administration. There is currently little room for the Fed to cut interest rates, and the deficit was ballooned to prop the bull market up. If this drop proves to be as precipitous as it currently appears it could be, we may find ourselves unable to muster the means to mount a recovery for quite a while.
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This situation provides a compelling opportunity to reflect on isolationist ideas favored by some current politicians.
We are interconnected very heavily with the rest of the world. Manufacturing supply chains are one form of link. Public health concerns are another. We drastically cut the CDC budget and staff that was intended to deal with pandemics. And a portion of that was targeted towards assisting and coordinating with other nations. But if a pandemic takes hold and spreads in another nation, we get the impacts too. If we don't spend some time thinking about other nations,and establishing coordination with them, we can end up in situations that hurt us.
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“I don’t have any problem with Starbucks if they choose to opt out of this policy as long as they post a sign that says we don’t require our employees to wash their hands after leaving the restroom. The market will take care of that. It’s one example.” - Senator Thom Tillis (R-NC)
Readers may recall this fiasco from shortly after the freshman Tillis arrived in DC. A staunch supporter of Norquist and the and the poster-boy for ALEC, he has devoted his energy to eliminating regulations, slashing spending, and supporting Trump 1000%.
Now he is running for re-election with Trump's endorsement.
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In a mind-numbing new survey just out, 38% of Americans say they will not buy Corona beer because of the coronavirus! That number matches up pretty closely to the percentage of hard-core Trump supporters. Coincidence?
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There’s a little pub in New Hampshire that stopped selling Corona since last year. Now there is a forward thinking group of people!
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“The sell-off is fueled mostly by worry that measures to contain the virus would hamper corporate profits and economic growth...”
Uh-oh. Next word from Pence to disease fighters (whoever remains, that is): Do nothing without clearing it with me. I will be unavailable until further notice.
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People worry about this virus. But not smoking, obesity, climate change, or car accidents
Or healthcare? It’s a weird world. Go down stock market. Go down and rid us Of trump
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Our priorities are questionable; why does the NYT lead article feature the stock market when it should be focused on the approaching crisis?
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Because a weekly drop of this magnitude actually affects every aspect of American life and economy. It is completely tied to the virus story.
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@LSB Wow, that is strange. When the market was shooting up all I read here was how it DOESN'T affect normal Americans, just the 1%. But now a drop affects everything.
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Trump has little or no interest in the virus. He regards it as a variant of the common cold, which at worst might produce a few thousand more deaths in the U.S. this year in what remains of the flu season.
The deaths themselves mean nothing to him.
What matters to him is the stock market because the continuation of his Presidency now depends on it.
When Trump came along, businesses and many well-to-do people saw a con- artist who would give them lower taxes; was promising to spend lavishly on the military and the infrastructure; had no interest in controlling budget deficits and inflation; would cast a cold eye on the need for health and safety measures in the workplace; and would ignore the effects of climate change.
Well, the chickens have all come home to roost; and what he and Americans foolish enough to believe in his methods have succeeded in producing are vastly overheated stock prices that -- to the surprise of no one familiar with the ups and downs of the stock market -- are now collapsing.
The coronavirus is guilty of nothing more than being a virus.
We will survive it.
Trump -- virtually single-handed -- has succeeded in collapsing the stock market and is clueless as to how to revive it.
This explains why we find him up late at night, tweeting bile throughout the country.
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If any foreign nation gets even the slightest whiff the US Republican administration is sanitizing news from the CDC, their borders should be closed to US travel. You think the market is in free fall now? Wait until that happens.
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