Regarding the visiting adult children with grandchild. Set limits if messes spill into public areas. Ask for help with specific chores. And enjoy the plus of scooping up your grandchild and enjoying time alone with a 3 year old -or older. Find child things to do in your community and do them. The parents would love a break and you cannot recoup lost opportunities to spend time with grandchildren.
34
LW#4: respond "Guilty as charged, I'm headed to bed and I'll see you at (or after) breakfast tomorrow. Looking forward to hearing all about your evening out tomorrow. Enjoy."
21
I would be tempted to have the two parents declared unfit parents and take over the raising of the child. They must be hurt and confused when their mom and dad are so emotionally unavailable to them.
6
@Leslie Avoid temptation, lest ye get what ye asked for.
17
A 10 day visit with 2 adults and toddler staying under your roof is quite a bit of a challenge. Start by having a frank discussion about both sides' expectations. Tell your son and DIL how much babysitting your age and energy level permits you to do. Float the idea of a nanny for the duration of their stay. Talk about meals and how often you will cook vs going out. Many are fine with a cup of coffee and toast, a yogurt or cold cereal for breakfast, no need for an elaborate breakfast. Tell your son/DIL that you fine with them sleeping in until 9-10am, fixing their own breakfast and you will give your grand-daughter breakfast and find a nearby park with a children's playground and that you expect to find them up, showered and dressed upon your return and ready to assume responsibility for their daughter's care. Don't engage on the messy clothes on the floor unless it is not confined to their bedroom. Do not make their bed for them or launder towels, simply show them the laundry room and supplies and invite them to make use of it as required. Plan a few outings, maybe a picnic on the beach or at a nearby park or scenic area. Make simple lunches-soup, sandwiches and salads. Simple barbecues for dinner with a few restaurant meals at family friendly locations. Offer to babysit granddaughter one or two evenings so parents can have a night out. Have a movie night with granddaughter, or apply nail polish.
26
Just as hair, dress, & makeup should be re-evaluated at least once a decade, so should mannerisms & behaviors. "Don't be an old lady" may be amusing at 30&40 but not so much at 60&70. By 60 & 70, people know what works best for their health & lifestyle; it should be respected not ridiculed.
22
When my parents visit me, they nap and are on their phones a lot. Ha. I’d love a nap.
20
Kids sponging off their parents need to wake up!
4
I love being an Old Lady. It's a good excuse for just about anything. If a friend ever told me to "Don't be an Old Lady", I'd probably ask, "OK, should I stop being old or stop being a lady?"
29
I disagree with the advice given to LW1. I think its rude and selfish to expect grandparents to take care of your kid and use their home as a personal crash pad. Be sensitive to the fact that they also have their own routine and habits in their home and be respectful that they have already raised children and that this is your job not theirs, and 10 days? Wait until you get older and value your privacy. Ten days is way too much for anyone to visit unless you have a staff and a big house.
14
LW 1. The last suggestion has merit: a hotel. Otherwise I would kick them out.
8
Extremely weak advice for the parents of the lazy children.
9
Regarding Surprise Renovation: As a professional meddler, it was obvious to me that an intervention was needed. No one takes it upon themself to do such a chore except out of love and devotion. The brother who did the renovation answered the biblical question "Am I my brother's keeper?" in the affirmative.
6
“Surprise Renovation” brought to mind a family story that happened 20 years ago. My sister’s three year old did not get a lot of attention with her appearance. Her hair was a tangled, knotted mess. During a visit (they lived a good distance away) my sister left to run errands and her daughter was in our care. My oldest sister took it upon herself to give our niece a much needed haircut. When the mom returned home...fireworks. Although I had tried to talk my oldest sister out of the haircut, I was happy that the little girl no longer had unbrushable tangles and an unkempt appearance. Another case of ambivalence.
13
I'm a mother to 3 young adults ranging in age 20 - 26 yrs. My friends have similar aged "children", all of whom have been well fed, well watered and well educated. I've heard many stories about these kids returning to the old homestead expecting service not like a expensive boutique hotel. My friends fell used but helpless. Here's what I know based on overwhelming anecdotal evidence : teach your children what your expectations are of them nice and early; reinforce those expectations even when it's difficult and they push back; and adhere to those expectations as they mature. At the risk of piling on the grandmother in L1, methinks her "lazy" son didn't just *happen* but rather had years to hone his apparent laziness. She shouldn't hold her breath until he, one beautiful day, decides to contribute in her home, or at the very least keep his campsite clean, 'cause that's not gonna happen. It may be too late, but ground rules can still be established but need to be communicated FAR BEFORE arrival. Then son + DIL can decide whether the visit is worth it, and Grandma can feel less like a doormat.
13
@Brooke Batchelor I notice that you have assumed the letter writer is female!
10
Visiting family with your own family for days was really difficult for my sister and I. We did it because we live miles apart and it was the only way for us to see each other and develop cousin relationships. Moving away from family members makes for problems. I would have loved to visit my mother for a day and then go home. Ten days is a long time. This is one result of our mobile society. My solution now when I visit my sons miles away is I stay in a hotel. Now that my mom is gone, my sister and I marvel at how clueless we were to our mother when we all visited her for a week! Now the shoe is on the other foot and we are the old folks beings visited by children and their kids. What I wouldn't give to apologise to my mom. Now I understand!
22
We share a large, old cottage in the 1000 Islands in Canada with my husband’s sisters. It’s been in the family since it was built in 1887, and our grandchildren are the 7th generation in the house. It is our family gathering point; some come from far away as London or California to be with each other when they can. It can be chaotic, loud, and messy, but we love having them together. I’ve noticed that most young folks aren’t great at just looking around and doing what needs to be done. Instead, they respond enthusiastically to assignments (preparing lunches & dinners, or other assorted things on the “chore chart”). We have these conversations before they arrive. Inevitably, the older generation (we are in our 60’s) seems to do more work but that’s the price we pay for family involvement. At some point, we’ll be too old to deal with it all, and then it will be their turn to take care of us. It all works out in the end.
45
Respect, caring, responsibility on both sides ; it is also a receipe for good citizenship, advancing love and understanding. We see it in the best families, and there are many. A class question, how you were brought up ? Entitlement is a dead end as is rudeness.
13
@cenita fairbanks
Your post put me in mind of last week's story about reclining airline seats. While the man banging on the reclined seat was out of line, I was more appalled by the defenders of the recliner all over tv. In short, they said they had a right to recline and had no responsibility toward the person behind them. Tough luck, it's all about me.
14
LW 1, with adult, parenting kids visiting the “winter house” also could identify and do initial vetting of local baby sitters, and ask her son and daughter in-law if they wouldn’t mind having a sitter, or even a local high school student as (grand)mother’s helper, mind the 3 yr old. Grandma might, if inclined to generosity and strengthening her bond with her son and dtr.-in-law (and thus, with grandchild), offer to pay for said babysitter/(grand)mother’s helper. Added benefit: the son, his wife, and even the grandchild later on may remember grandma’s warm embrace of care and refuge during an exhausting time in the new nuclear family’s life, and then be more inclined to reciprocate the care, generosity, and grace later on when grandmother is much older and frail, and naps much of the time.
.
17
@ mama, yes this works! We did that when our kids visited us. I was at first resistant bc this just isn’t how we were raised or how we managed our kids. But honestly for peace & a successful visit it is the answer. By the way, the people we hired did the kids laundry too! No large piles littering the house along with opportunities to have grown up time together all good for bonding time. It wasn’t that expensive either.
8
Rule #1 when visiting family: the hotel is your best friend. Not since my mother passed away have I ever stayed in anyone’s home. No embarrassing bathroom runs, no having to go to bed with everyone else or watch their TV shows. And btw, LW1 is totally justified in being critical of her DIL. When you go to someone’s home you need to respect their rules. And if you don’t the rules, go to a hotel.
23
I don't understand why saying thank you is so uncommon. Even if people are performing tasks included in their job descriptions, why not thank them for their contributions. Many years ago, I was interviewing in-house applicants for a position in my department. I always asked why they wanted to work in my department. I was amazed when one of them responded that I always thanked her for her work when she was assigned to me, and that none of the other managers ever said thank you. People like to feel valued and appreciated.
56
As a vacation home owner I’m going to say that paying for my children to stay at a motel isn’t why I bought a vacation home. Depending on how confident you feel about your children enjoying this visit with you I think I would just say that you would appreciate it if they would pick up after themselves and not let their toddler tear stuff up, and that meal times are for visiting so all cell phones in a basket. They may pack up and leave in a huff, or maybe they’ll get the message. I had a similar situation when I was a young parent. It’s a hard habit to break, turning into a child when you go to stay with your parents but eventually I got over it and now when I go see my mother I actually clean stuff up and try and help her around the house because I realize she won’t be there forever.
60
@Ginger Some of my grandparent friends have instituted a no cell phone/vidoe games usage during meals, evenings etc. When their young grandchild visited, she was instructed to place her hand held video game in the foyer chest. When she asked why, she was told that during visits, she and her hosts would have conversation. When her parents arrived, said grandchild proudly instructed her parents to place their phones in the foyer chest because they would be visiting and having conversation. The grandchild thoroughly enjoyed having the full and uninterrupted attention of her grandparents and found the notion of conversation to be quite novel.
34
I really liked all your answers this week. I really hope the parents will suggest the hotel stay to son and family. That’s a great way to handle that and maybe give pause to the son about all the responsibilities he had so casually unloaded on his parents.
9
@fishoutawater Totally agree - really solid advice on all counts.
2
@fishoutawater I have observed that adult children revert to their childhood roles during visits with their parents. Far better for all involved to stay in a hotel and to bring along a nanny or hire one locally for childcare so parents can have some alone time.
3
Surprise renovation: What an odd letter. Fifty years ago. Many of us have (or had) relatives that continuously complain about some long ago committed wrong.
Curious though why Ellen felt strongly enough to write a letter, and especially curious why she thinks her father should have been thanked. Mr. Galanes' is absolutely correct. Don't do this yourself! Nobody appreciates their home being renovated, cleaned, modified, etc. without permission, no matter how sorely we think it necessary.
27
Lol I think if you told your friend “I’d be careful generalizing about a demographic that many would say you are speedily approaching” over what was clearly a harmless joke, that friend is just going to make fun of you even harder.
5
@mike Or, perhaps it will shut her up. I'd take that risk!
20
Setting a model for children to follow never ends, no matter how old they are. Treating a son or daughter, their partner and grandchildren the way you would like to be treated will not only set an example for them to follow as you all age, but will also bring you closer as a family. It has always helped me when I focus on the bigger picture; when we’re all 5, 10, 20 years older, when I’m older, I want my family to be interested and care about me. Putting up lovingly with one another’s imperfections may mean the difference between growing old lonely and alone or as part of a warm, caring family. I like how Mr. Galanes always encourages communication. If you’re unable to tolerate a particular trait, being reasonable, direct and tactful goes a long way in maintaining a relationship.
16
This is some part of the western culture i have come to be confused by, the distance between a mother and her son is astonishing.
15
@Shah Zaid Or any child.
7
Gosh...
LW 1 chose a poor day to be published -- such a tough crowd here.
Her failings: She did not properly convey the burden put on her by her visiting family and she did not include any evidence that she relishes her grandchild. So with those those failings, she has paid dearly among the top commenters here.
You don't know how she deals with a 3-year old but you are not inclined to assume the best. Assuming hte worst is much more fun.
But the real issue is that when you visit a home, respect the home and its residents. Imagine it is your supervisor's home. Don't act like a slob.
Be an adult! With manners!
36
LW1 will be writing Mr. Gallanes in about 10 years, wondering why she's not included in her son's family and its ongoing life events. You must put in the time, Granny! You son, daughter-in-law, and yes, even the 3-year-old, are clearly in need of a place where they can rest up from the weariness of their lives. Or just be good and lazy on a vacation! It is 10 days out of an entire year of getting to control everything. 10 days! That child will grow up fast, and if you have not been a soft place to fall for the family, well then, you can be sure an important relationship has been missed. By you. Perhaps be open about it -- "I know that you will want to do nothing for the first five days. I'm happy to care for Toddler those days But after that, here's what I'd like us to do ..." Create some special memories, not ones of shaming and a nag festival.
45
It’s harm reduction. Just deal with it and be nice. Say things like “hey can you get the dishes or hey can you prep the hamburger helper”? Not nag nag nag.
13
@Margaret absolutely no way! Grandparents aren’t slaves. My grandparents were tough, and thank goodness they were. Made me tougher.
17
@Margaret Totally agree with you. Most (good) grandparents take the kids off the hands of the exhausted parents. My mother did and my husband's family was always happy to take the kids so we could chill. This is the parents' vacation! In-laws, I presume, are retired. It is even weird to me to say they are "hosting" their son. That's not how family works. I detect a not-very-subtle dislike of the daughter-in-law. Grandparents need to chill out and be nice.
12
LW1 sounds like a treat.
Her son and DIL--the "extremely lazy one, he's better" must be desperate for a vacation to endure 10 days of "supervision."
She says they're slobs at home. What business is that of hers? Especially as parents of a toddler.
At the "winter home" she objects to them napping and using phone "particularly when our granddaughter is awake."
In other words, even if the granddaughter is snoring, parents' (or maybe just the lazy DIL's) napping and phone use are getting the evil eye from grandma.
What does grandma think a vacation should look like?
24
@Talbot Wow. What an entitled reply. So it's the grandmother's responsibility to clean up after her adult children and babysit the toddler while they nap? I am glad I am not a grandparent to your children, that relationship would be strained to say the least.
41
@Robert You misread me, then called me entitled based on your misreading. Strained relations indeed.
3
Ellen-aaaaaaand this is why nobody likes to visit old people. (I'm 62 btw) Nobody cares about that bad chicken salad sandwich you got at that restaurant that's been closed for 45 years or the name of that one guy you used to work with. Unless you hung out with the Beatles the first time they came here keep the conversation within this century.
27
@KS
Maybe its because there are too many selfish people. Think of it as visiting people that you love.
12
@KS Someday you'll be old and lonely. It won't kill you to show a little grace to the people who are there now.
10
LW1: Oh my goodness! Do you know how fortunate you are to have a son and DIL that want to spend 10 days with you? If I were you, I'd spend every minute I could with your grandchild--have fun, develop a meaningful relationship, so that when that grandchild comes in your door he/she exclaims "grandma I'm here!!!" and runs to hug you. Be that grandparent. What more do you really want in life but that? And have breakfast ready (basket of pastries/bagels/juice/coffee for when your kids wake up. Have a good conversation when you can. Be that parent.
106
@jsb
Huh, I want to be respected and not taken advantage of, by a grown up who should know better, specially my own child!
I can be a good parent but when do children start being a good son or daughter?
21
@raine Willing to bet jsb's kids visit a lot more ... I cannot wait to be that grandparent, just like my parents and inlaws were.
8
I enjoy my grand kids most when their parents out out to dinner and we stay in with noodles to eat and stuff to play with. They are, in my opinion, the reason to have kids in the first place.
11
LW1: you can always hire a babysitter if the kid is getting on your nerves...
7
LW#1 Yes, hotel. That way it can be a vacation for everyone at least part of the time. If the son & family can't afford it splurge. Your relationship will thank you and so will your daughter in law.
LW#@ Recruit the nicer people in your office to treat OA better. If there are no nice people in your office I am sorry.
LW#3 She is just using the time honored double-dog dare you are too chicken trick to get you to go along with her agenda. You do what YOU need to do and be sure to call her early the next day for a breakfast date after her late nights....
11
I don’t have grandchildren, but I have adult children who’ve returned to the nest.
I laid down a few rules, which they follow, but the brunt of the work is still on me.
And you know what? I enjoy having them around.
I’m retired, so I just suck it up. I suggest you do too; it’s only ten days.
26
Maybe you should be better grandparents...?
17
You raised him to be the way he is.
Act a door mat and people wipe their feet on you.
23
It sounds like LW#1 is overwhelmed by these 10 day visits. But the LW should remember - as should the parents - that toddlers can't be forced to sleep.
9
Elizabeth:
A friend is one to whom one may pour out all the contents of one's heart, chaff and grain together, knowing that the gentlest of hands will take and sift it, keep what is worth keeping and with a breath of kindness, blow the rest away.
Arabian Proverb
18
@Jeanbee Thank you!
1
LW4: I'm in my 40's, and I'm with you! I dislike going out at night because I don't sleep well. Sorry your thoughtless friend made you feel bad but unless talking about someone in their early 20's, it can happen to anyone!
17
@Roberta Thanks! When I turned 68, people started referring to me as an old lady. I guess its part of the vernacular now but I agree with Philip, its ageist.
11
I'm half Elizabeth's age and I too can't go out two nights in a row lol....I find that these types of complainers are usually people who can't be alone...
51
@MJ Thanks! I agree.
6
You need to leave now. Take a nice vacation. Your son and daughter-in-law probably won't even notice you've left.
11
LW1- Rude! Unhost your son and family. They can stay in a hotel on their own dime the next visit.
LW2- I can imagine your coworkers taking offense if you say the assistant should be treated with respect, so that message should come from a person above your pay grade. Regardless no one should treat assistants as gum under their shoe.
LW3- it was fifty years ago, get over it. Are they still angry that the Dodgers left Brooklyn?
LW4 - Drop that “friend,” we all deserve to only be around people who treat us well.
15
@Lynn in DC Thanks!
1
If they need to “stay in a hotel on their own dime” why in the world would they want to visit LW and not go somewhere different?
8
Elizabeth:
Next time your 70 year old friend pulls that line on you, suggest that she grow up and act her age.
She’s trying to party like it’s 1999.
But it ain’t.
11
Communication is the key for this family and the ten day visit. No one is a mind reader and if you don’t set the boundaries, the same behavior and resentment will continue until it all blows up. Is that worth the risk? Start by appreciating the fact that they want to visit you. Also try to see the positive in your daughter-in-law. She might alter her behavior once she feels you at least like her. There are so many families out there that have terrible problems, addiction, abuse, homelessness. Is having a messy house that terrible?
20
Guests, like fish, begin to smell after three days.
Benjamin Franklin
21
You can step over dirty laundry, but this situation is unfair to child and grandma. The three year old has two parents, who can call dibs on morning nap and afternoon nap. Unless grandma said she would watch the child for a set amount of time, and the three year old feels very comfortable with a grandma she seldom sees, one parent should be on duty with child. Perhaps later in the week after child warms up, grandparents might give the parents a night out while they tuck little girl in.
16
@M.R. Sullivan "We will be hosting" seems to indicate there are are at least 2 adults in the house. If Grandma really doesn't want to do any child care, she should say so, but 2 adults should be able to keep a 3 year old occupied for a duration of a nap.
7
Not too many comments on the office situation which is sad but probably not too much out of the norm in corporate America. I am “more than” an assistant but not immune to obnoxious or patronizing comments from people only a rung or two up the ladder from me. There’s a lot of passive aggressive behavior when you work in an environment where department heads are trying to be the top dog.
My point to all this? While one would think you could say something about this kind of appalling behavior, in many workplaces, mine included, you put your job, your bonus, your raise in peril. If top management behaves this way they and you raise it as an issue you may as well give notice. Why continue to work in such in an environment? Unfortunately other similar jobs don’t exist where I live.
Best advise is to friend the assistant, as was mentioned.
37
@M. Miller
Its strange but often seen in US and a basic misunderstanding of social norms-
If someone is nice to you it doesn't make you nice, it makes the other person nice.
If you are treat others awfully, you are an awful person. Even if others are nice to you. The more awful you are the meeker others might be, to not set you off! So check yourself!
One becomes bold by doing bold acts, uncomfortable perhaps, often unrewarded. One doesn't become bold by just talking loud or acting tough. Faking it just makes you a fake!
6
Check your local daycares to see if they offer drop in care. Some do, and if you can put the 3 year old in daycare for a few days during the visit the parents can get a break and so can you. Or all of you can go on a cruise, and the child can go to the kids club and your son and dil can leave their room in whatever state they like without annoying you.
11
@jaclyn
So drop off a 3-year-old at a place she has never been before, with kids and adults she doesn't know, during what she thinks is a visit to her grandparents' house? That is the craziest thing I've read yet and a sure-fire way to halt all future visits (unless that is the point).
59
I had the opposite situation when I was in my 60s.
My husband and I would visit our daughter and her family once a year. I was working extremely difficult 60-hour weeks (plus a 60-minute commute in all sorts of weather).
I'd arrive at their home exhausted from the cross-country plane trip, using half of my 14-day vacation-sick time combo to see them. But she regarded me as a babysitter and housekeeper--her very own respite person--and wow, was she angry when I failed to measure up to her standards. (How she learned such high standards is beyond me!)
Of course I loved to visit with them and our grandkids, but not at the expense of my already frazzled mental and physical health! It took some frank talk all around to sort this out.
49
During the summer before I started college (at age 18 years), I babysat, a few times, for my new neighbors' three young children (all under the age of 4). Despite the fact that I was the eldest of seven children (with lots of experience), I became so exhausted after spending about two or three hours with the neighbor children, that I took a nap when I returned home. I was astounded that they had so easily worn me out.
28
I want to shake the selfish son and DIL of the first letter writer! Mr. Galanes says he often hears from adult children peeved that hosting parents aren’t providing enough childcare and housekeeping services for them. I wonder whether he has heard from any siblings who have witnessed this behavior from family members, or have hosted such layabouts. I am one of those siblings (married, but no children) who has seen this dynamic in action at the homes of siblings and parents, and experienced it in my own home. It makes me livid.
I agree that offering a hotel room to people like this is probably the most diplomatic solution, but I disagree with the advice about parents (or any hosts) treading carefully. I think this is a situation where one should speak out, firmly. The son and DIL are acting like spoiled children. Treat them as such, and tell them what to do, and when. And make it explicitly clear that you are not a free childcare service.
The father who did repair work on his brother’s home without permission was absolutely in the wrong. He reminds me of my late FIL. The man considered my and my husband’s home and possessions to be part his. In fact, he did not recognize my ownership at all, but considered our house to be my husband’s. So FIL would launch into “repair” jobs that were not requested (he mostly messed things up, and they had to be repaired by someone who knew what they were doing). So presumptuous!
37
@Passion for Peaches I felt the same way about my nieces and nephews and how much time my parents spent taking care of the kids while my siblings slept in or went on a date or sat with a glass of wine and read a book. Then I became a mother. I think your tune will change when/if you have children.
40
@Katie P, I tried to post this earlier, but it did not post. Do not assume that all women will have children, or even want to. It’s insulting. Furthermore, parenthood is no excuse for bad behavior or poor manners. Theoretical children would not make me change my “tune” to become an inconsiderate houseguest. Nor would they make me more tolerant of the behavior described here.
36
@Katie P, never assume that all women will eventually have children. Or want to.
You are wrong, in any case. It isn’t just parents who are taken advantage of by their spoiled offspring: I have had fecund siblings treat me this way. Perhaps when certain types of people become parents, their “tune” changes to one of self absorption and inconsideration. It should not be that way. Parenthood does not give you a golden ticket to be rude.
29
I sympathize somewhat with both sides of the first letter. Having a young child is exhausting, so catching up on sleep on vacation makes sense. And for young parents to assume that their parents will give them a break by spending time with their grandchild (which I can only assume is a stated purpose of the visit) also makes sense. That said, I have seen young parents totally take advantage of their parents by more or less ignoring their children when the grandparents are around, treating the grandparents as unpaid nannies, maids, and cooks. I have been collateral damage in some cases, where I end up taking care of my kids and theirs when the grandparents refuse to be taken advantage of and I'm the only one not napping in the middle of the afternoon. There should be some kind of midpoint compromise, where the grandparents give their kids a break and the kids treat the grandparents with respect and don't overburden them. My own parents make it clear at the beginning of family vacations what they will do with/for the grandkids, and that works perfectly. The LW should try that.
35
The only times I’ve spend a lot of time napping in when I’ve visited people have been when there’s been a difficult to get along with person in the house that I’m trying to avoid.
51
@Allison, funny! But even if that were the case for the “lazy” son and DIL, they have a responsibility to not leave a mess in their wake, and to keep an eye on their child. An adult visiting his or her parents should recognize that they are guests, and practice good manners. If that is not possible, get a hotel room.
My husband’s mother was never easy to get along with. I did the polite DIL thing on home visits, for many years. At a certain point, I told my husband that henceforth if we were going to visit his parents we needed to stay in a hotel (we always paid, BTW). It was not popular with MIL, but it was necessary for my sanity. I used the excuse of an allergy to her household cat — I really am allergic — but my more serious allergy was to MIL.
18
LW1: It sounds as though there are some expectations that need to be clarified here. I am not assigning fault to anyone, but the family needs to talk about how vacations are going to work. E.g., the people that cook the meals don't wash the dishes, and so on. Communicate!
LW3: I suspect that the unauthorized redecoration was felt to be critical of how the family lived their life. I would have been angry too. Who are you to decide how my home should be?
28
Haha...yes communicate!!! My own family prefers the simmering resentment approach...it’s quite an investment of energy with no one ultimately getting what they want!
23
LW2: surprise renovations.
A woman I know prepared a similar, but not so extensive, surprise for her boyfriend. She had her own apartment; he had a house that she often spent time in. During a long weekend when he was away, she decided to repaint his kitchen. Loads of work, but she got it done. One of the worst surprises SHE ever gave. Never understood if it was a genuine "gift" of love on her part or a veiled way to leave her mark on the place. Or both.
15
For LW 1: Be wary of setting a double standard with your son and daughter-in-law. Labeling her as "extremely lazy" but giving your son more of a pass sounds like you expect her to parent more or tidy-up more but don't see your son as having similar responsibilities. I noticed as an adult that my mother awarded a metaphorical gold star to my brother every time he changed a diaper or attended to his daughter, but she also seemed to give a demerit to my sister-in-law because she wasn't doing the work. If your daughter-in-law senses your perception of her, it is likely to undermine your relationship with her and your grandchild as the years go on.
I agree with the advice to use your words. Make sure to clarify your expectations about keeping the kitchen clean and the public spaces clutter free. Your daughter-in-law may not feel comfortable rummaging about in your kitchen, and she may even be taking her cues from your son.
I expect my parents found me less attentive than they would have liked when I brought my young kids across the country to visit, but they also recognized I worked full-time and parented full-time, and they were my "vacation." I appreciate the patience they showed when I was younger and overwhelmed.
126
@Eilonwy, my goodness, you are reading an awful lot into that short letter! Where do you see the writer “setting a double standard”? Where is the son getting “more of am pass”? All the writer said was that the some was “better” than the DIL in the area of “extremely lazy” behavior. That is not defined, other than the mentioned lolling in bed and obsessing over a cellphone. You are the one adding in the sexism here, because you are the one who assumes that the unwashed dishes and the dirty clothes on the floor, mentioned by the letter writer, are the DIL’s responsibility.
Amazing.
4
You can't say anything. Would you comment on how other houseguests spent their time in your home? No, it's rude and impolite. If you don't like them as houseguests, don't invite them.
The fact that they are family doesn't change this. If you want to approach them as family and discuss concerns with how they are raising their child (and your grandchild), you may do so but that is totally divorced from whether they are guests in your house. And it won't go well, of course, but perhaps it ought to be said anyways.
15
If you like your granddaughter, grab a hold of her and do things every day. Don't wait for the snoozes. The visit is about enjoying your grandchild's visit.
69
Plaintiff #1 claims their issue is rules for family guests. It's true that their guests need to pick up after themselves, that's a boundary that needs to be set before guests arrive. The real issue is plaintiff is looking for an excuse to criticize their son's family publicly. While feigning concern about guest rules, plaintiff saw fit to throw in the unnecessary jab about son and DIL's housekeeping, insinuated that son and DIL are lazy for how they spend their breaks, then was judgemental of son and DIL's parenting. There is nothing wrong with paying less attention to your small child when the child's loving, responsible grandparents are around. When kids are small, once mundane, automatic things are nigh impossible. Basics like reading the paper, checking a bank account, using the toilet, brushing your teeth, eating breakfast, calling the doctor to set up an appointment, etc.. Son and DIL are taking a well-deserved breather from constant vigilance and recharging. That can mean doing nothing at all. Plaintiff doesn't get to tell others they're not enjoying their lives right or that they're not working hard enough to need a break. Plaintiff mentions DIL specifically, it seems like they are just looking for an excuse to criticize her. Wow, an old person not liking their DIL. So original and shocking. Plaintiff could've just said "kids these days are so lazy, kids these days have no respect, kids these days are so ungrateful, when I was your age..." and looked less petty.
60
@Dad of Cats
I’ve been in this type of situation (although not at my “winter home” - more just a visit). The problem is, when Mom & Dad are taking a “vacation” and catching up on sleeping, beauty routines (hours in shower/bathroom) and scrolling on phones, the “petty old people” don’t have time to actually enjoy time with the grandchild. They are instead running to the store for last minute items, cooking ALL the meals, cleaning up after all the meals, and feeling used. It has to do with not assuming your needs are more important than those of everyone else. I get what you are saying but I have hosted numerous times for my family members and it almost never is enjoyable. Yes, people are entitled to down time but not at another’s expense. I’ve had other visitors who pitch in and engage during their visits. The best times I’ve had with my grandkids was when they came to visit without their parents.
66
@Louise - You may have hit upon the best response to complaining MIL: invite the grandchild to visit without the parents.
18
@Louise - Ding ding ding. My maternal grandparents used to do this. They loved having us to stay for a couple of weeks during the summer. My parents would fly out with us, we'd all spend a few days together, then my parents would use their vacation days on a vacation together, somewhere not kid-friendly, while my grandparents looked after us. Parents got their vacation, grandparents got quality time with grandkids, and a great time was had by all. I look back really fondly on summers at the lake with my grandparents and I know my parents loved being able to take a proper vacation.
It wouldn't work for everyone - this was never on offer from the other set of grandparents, which was fine - but it's a great thing when it does.
19
To LW#4: Why not embrace the epithet of 'old lady'? Clearly your young friend intended it as a good-natured slight, but there is nothing wrong or embarrassing with being old.
FYI: I am 'only' 40, and if someone tells me to stop behaving like a middle-aged uncle, my unapologetic response is that I *am* a middle-aged uncle.
28
@Santa Why not embrace someone who is a true friend? A true friend doesn't call us derogatory names as part of her attempt to manipulate us to get her way. Faux friends - in the end, they can be bitter substitutes for the real thing.
8
@Barbara Agreed, but everyone has good and bad qualities. Now I just say I think I'll pass with no reason.
The issue with LW#1's problem is presumption...the kids are presuming that mom and dad will just jump in and do, without having been asked. I personally always try to say, "Do you mind watching Beloved Grandchild while I nap/run an errand?" That's really all it takes! Many of us who also have young children resent taking care of other relatives' children only because we aren't asked. When I'm left on "kid duty" while you disappear for a nap, I get a little resentful. And while I'm at it - you should always help clean up the kitchen after a meal and not presume to impose on others to do so, especially while they're watching all the kids! I'm on vacation, too!
30
I hope when I'm a grandmother I remember how desperately I needed a break and how draining child-rearing can be. I hope I will welcome my daughter and son-in-law and still be vigorous enough by then to let them relax a little, even if they want to act like goofy adolescents for a week.
How unkind, LW1, to call the daughter-in-law "extremely lazy." It sounds like you visit each other's home infrequently, so how would you know? Maybe your son (and wow, "my son is better") and his wife just need some down time. Maybe she takes frequent naps because she's exhausted from her ordinary routine.
You don't have to let yourself be taken advantage of, but they're just visiting for ten days. Maybe everybody should let the dishes sit unwashed for a couple of hours and play a board game or something dumb, and then get up together and tidy.
Love your family. Life will be easier.
116
LW4: if it makes you feel any better, I recently got exactly the same comment for exactly the same reason. I was already committed for two evenings this week, and absolutely refused to add on a third. I was told “you are behaving like an oldie”. I told my friend “I *am* old”. I’m 42. And yes, *I’m* too old to be out three evenings in a row. I would rather read.
78
The please and thank you question is quite interesting to a Brit. Here it is almost a statement of rank to be polite. The more senior, the less like an order something becomes. Some may see it as false, but I rather like it.
45
LW1 - TEN DAYS!?! Good Lord, that's a LOT of time for any adults to spend together. This isn't a feel-good-family-movie-comedy...it's real life. No wonder you are anticipating problems. Don't let sentimentality override practical common sense. How about 3 days together? That will keep the entirety of the visit unfolding in the blissfully forgiving/overlooking zone. Want the most fun together? Then shorten the trip so it feels like a lovely novelty from start to finish. You guys are probably all great! Less really will be more.
77
My wife and I don't have this problem as we did not have children.
All our working lives have been with children and we find ourselves enjoying our retirement.
With that being said, all visitors and guests are required to remove their shoes and to refrain from smoking in our house.
I also warn our guests that we use peanuts, salt and our outdoor grill.
12
As a parent to young children, I can tell you they are exhausting. My home is frequently messy because despite my husband and my best efforts they can destroy things faster than you can clean up. Newer parents have this fantasy that their parents will jump right in and bring them some welcome relief. This isn't always the case as people are human and new grandparents don't always relish the diaper changes or have the energy to chase after them either. Some empathy and better communication might be in order on both sides. I have zero problem asking for help cleaning up dinner if I have just cooked or recruiting someone to assist with putting the kids to bed. On our family vacays we divvy out the meal preparation to a different sibling each night and then I usually corral those who haven't helped into the clean up process. Just remember to be kind and realize you don't always know the stress that others are carrying.
55
LW1 - if you don't do the nearby hotel option, hire a babysitter for a few of the days.
Tell your son and his wife it's your vacation too. Make plans to spend one or 2 afternoons elsewhere, with or without your visitors.
29
@D. Demarco "Elsewhere" - maybe the summer home or, if closer, the winter palace?
5
@D. DeMarco
Why would they want to ditch the grandchild with a stranger, when they don't see her often?
9
LW1: As the parent of two newly-minted adult children (both single), I watch with bemusement as they revert to their teenage selves when they come home to visit. They visit with old friends, sleep, play video games, and ask me for my "special Mom-made" grilled cheese sandwiches at 3pm. Now that they're grown, there's precious little fussing I can do for them, so I don't mind them acting like 15 year olds for a while. That said, they know there are house rules: don't leave dishes in your bedrooms, no messes in public spaces, strip the beds when you leave. They get some TLC, I get to remember what it was like to baby them, and we're all happy. With that said, I wonder if the letter writer is leaving out all the times that her son does take care of the granddaughter -- seems like it's a one-sided story. When my kids were toddlers, it would have been heaven to go home and have my own mom take over for a while!
LW3: Maybe it's just me, but I would have taken the friend's comment as a joke! Would have been different if that had come from a supervisor, but to me it seemed like a bit of teasing between friends.
48
@MountainFamily to me it seemed like bullying in a very thin disguise...
5
Grandparents don't always make good babysitters, and their services many times come with conditions. When Mom comes over for such grandparent visits I cannot accomplish my weekend or daily tasks because she wants me to sit down and talk talk talk a minute, until we can go out to eat somewhere. Meanwhile my wife and kids needs me to move, move, move to do this and that. My brother quit asking Mom to baby sit his kids because it was all just a big ruse to get up here and try to wreck his marriage one more time. Over on my Dad's side of the family they don't even care and we only see them a few times a year if that. LW1 it seems your grown kids are wanting a break from the grind of parenting, not a return to childhood. In the words of the Fresh Prince, parents just don't understand.
25
@Chris Godwin My sister complains about this with both sets of grandparents. When they come visit to "help out", they often disrupt routines and expect her to cook and serve all their meals.
When my youngest niece was still a tiny, tiny human, one of my family members spent nearly an hour in the bathroom getting ready for a trip to Costco, and by the time she was done primping, they couldn't actually leave the house because it would run into nap time and there was a chance the baby would go into a meltdown towards the end of the errand. After I heard that story, I take direction from parents of young kids much more seriously. I don't want to miss out on a thrilling errand or be the inadvertent cause of a meltdown.
23
For LW1, I think a lot of older folks forget that hours (days!) of cleaning and laundry and dishwashing and organizing can be undone in about five minutes by a moderately industrious child. A dresser full of clean clothes can be emptied onto the floor in a moment, and a load of dishes washed and surfaces wiped clean does not guarantee that a request for a snack involving peanut butter will not undo some of those efforts. Having small children is incredibly hard work, and if the kid is usually clean, generally healthy, and mostly happy, I guarantee you your daughter-in-law is many galaxies away from lazy.
166
@Law Feminist My mother had six kids and she was quite proud that visitors were aghast six children were in the house. We had firmly established chores; my dad did inspection of our bedrooms on Saturday (often we flunked) and we weren't even allowed to put a coat on a chair for a short while. All of us grew up to be as neat as she was. There was never a mess even with an infant in the house.
27
@ Geraldine Conrad I suspect that your mother didn't have to also go out to work in full time, paid, professional employment as well, yet that is the reality that so many of us modern mothers have to face, like it or not. And it's not a choice: the cost of living here is extremely high, yet professional salaries, not so much. Both parents have to work their hearts out outside the home to make ends meet, yet can't afford the mortgage AND a cleaner as well. A tidy home is a luxury that many have to give up while the kids are young.
35
@Lisa My mother resented forever the fact that a large Chicago bank fired her twice: the first time when she married, the second after the war when men returned and she was turned out. She would have loved to have worked although women weren't allowed. I recounted my story as it occurred; I wasn't criticizing current mothers. We were tasked with our chores, and I know from seeing my friends and relatives, many children now aren't.
22
I don't look like ever getting grandchildren. I'd love ten days with a three-year-old. We'd be in the kitchen making gingerbread cookies, and looking at birds in the back yard, and reading books and coloring pictures and making stuffed animals talk to each other. And she'd go home with new songs that Granny had taught her, and maybe a poem or two.
198
@Laura
My grandma taught me how to smoke, mix the "perfect" martini, and play bridge because she and her friends often needed a fourth, and she always needed her afternoon "pick-me-up." Grandma also taught me how to cheat at cards. They were special times.
150
@Laura - that's what I envisioned until I babysat a 3 year old...
61
@aging not so gracefully But that's what my mother did with my daughter.
5
Family visits can be so complicated. Im sure my parents-in-law think I'm lazy when I visit too, but here are a couple of things to consider: we spend our vacation time visiting them only because we care about family and about them seeing their grandchild (and vice versa), not because we actually enjoy spending time in their home or in the town where they live. They are very difficult people to be around. They have extremely regimented schedules (despite being retired) that do not at all map onto ours, but since it's their house we must conform, of course. They are very, very controlling - of conversation, of where you sit, of what you drink. You are not allowed to have an opinion that differs from theirs and conversation is often painful. They also like to do so *everything* as a group - every meal, every snack, every activity. This is exhausting, considering that it's supposed to be our vacation (and literally is our vacation from work) and so it means that as much and as politely as possible, I try to lay low. I try to stay out of their interactions with their grandchild so they can have that time (although of course we take care of basic needs) and I try to sleep when I can because the bright-and-early mornings are not how I like to spend precious time off. Think from both perspectives: it's hard to be a guest in someone's home when you don't feel comfortable there.
239
@reader
That is very sweet of you, but I do advise you to take a holiday for you and your family together alone. It is important for young families to learn how to spend recreational time together. Maybe split your holidays up: half with grandparents, half with yourselves.
47
@reader Then, don't stay there. Book a nearby motel. Problem solved.
29
@reader the best boundary you can install is staying at a hotel. Nothing says independence like a room of your own.
I never stay with relatives anymore, only hotels. Works great.
44
We have grandchildren and children visiting our winter condo sometimes twice a season. We always communicate about the following ahead of time: our schedule for those days for our own commitments, suggested children’s activities for a whole or half day, suggested shared at home meals, suggested take out meals to be brought in, family friendly restaurants during off hours to accommodate quick lines and mutually enjoyable menus, and other helpful suggestions such as a list of easy to make breakfast, lunch and snack items to be bought by either grandparents or parents upon arrival. Making a schedule ahead dependent on the weather really helps everyone to get along, have separate time for one’s own needs, easy meal timed, and of course, paper plates to make quick meal cleanups. We also ask the children to do their own laundry except the last day when they leave when we ask them to take off the bedsheets and put towels in the hamper. All this is stated up front by email so there are expectations for all.
57
@Pamela H: Do the parents really need "a list of easy to make breakfast, lunch and snack items" to feed their own kids? Or are your children doing some of the suggesting in advance?
4
Wow!
2
It sounds like she is making these lists out of experience. Sometimes visiting children expect their parents to provide all the meals, including meals that are the visitors’ personal preferences. Her visitors know ahead of time that they should plan to make a trip to the grocery store or to a restaurant if they want anything different.
Our youngest daughter once came for an extended visit, and when she arrived she announced that she was eating vegan. I had planned to prepare meals that were her old favorites; which included dishes with seafood, poultry, meat, eggs, and cheese. I told her that she was welcome to use what ingredients we had on hand to make her own meals.
Young children can also be very limited in what they are willing to eat, and it should be up to the visiting parents to ask for grocery shopping help ahead of time, or plan to shop themselves if their children are picky eaters.
13
LW1: The average American receives two weeks of (unpaid?) annual leave - of course this ten day break is your son and daughter-in-law's vacation.
Your annoyance at their messiness is understandable; but your attitude towards their napping is plain old mean spirited.
Also, do you know for a fact that their phone scrolling isn't actually inbox monitoring/checking in with the office? Because many of us are expected to do that, even on vacation.
Your characterisation of your daughter-in-law as the laziest of the two might also benefit from some examination. Do you know how she and your son split their domestic tasks? Is your son booking all of your granddaughter's medical appointments, buying the presents for her friends' birthday parties, ensuring that her basic nutritional requirements are being met, that her clothes/shoes fit and finding good deals when new wardrobe items are required? Researching and sourcing age appropriate books to read to her? Checking in with and maintaining good relationships with your grand daughter's teachers and the parents of her peers?
You'll probably never know exactly how he and his wife choose to divvy up the burdens of domesticity, so just hold off on the judgement and focus on building a loving relationship with your grand daughter. You might not appreciate it, but there are many grandparents who would give their right arm to have that time with family - despite the napping and extra washing up.
298
@JaneS LW1 makes me realize how lucky I am to have my MIL. My kids are teenagers now but she still says 'honey go relax you must be exhausted.'
23
@JaneS Most vacation time is in fact paid for by the employer in the US.
5
We did the long-distance travel to get the grandchildren and grandparents together for years. Yes I would rather have spent my vacation time elsewhere. And after the kids were older we did just that. But while we were at the grandparents, we tried to act like considerate guests: we "visited," took them out to dinner, took our child out of their hair for parts of the day to explore the region, and picked up after ourselves. We still got plenty of rest and quiet time, and grandparents and grandchild got all the bonding time they wanted. We never treated them like waitstaff at a hotel, though. I'd be ashamed to think I had used having a job and a child as an excuse to be resentful and rude while visiting.
105
LW1: Yes, a motel room will remove cause for irritation.
The situation was a different, but when my sig other and I were visiting his sister and family - for a wedding when hordes of relatives were coming and going, his sister -with a wise and compassionate heart - knew I was coming straight from work on a Friday night flight to San Diego , and that we rarely had time alone, and without discussing it with her brother ( who would've seen it as a waste of money but who would never question his sister) - arranged a (lovely) motel room for us. It was also to give us privacy -at night, since we spent full days with the family members. She wasn't motivated by our messes, just by kindness. Fortified by peace and quiet and escape from, I jumped into to help with all sorts of prep.
110
LW#1: They say fish and guest both get smelly after 3 days. My in-laws and my husband and I have found that we all get on better when we don't have to get on before we brush our teeth in the morning or after we brush our teeth at night. When we visit them, we stay in a hotel, when they visit us, they stay in a hotel. We usually break up long visits so that we only see each other about three days in a row, so on a 10-day visit, we'd probably do some kind of day trip on Day 4 and Day 8. I assume they want to see my husband (their child) and my children (their grandchildren) more than they want to see me, so we organize our time to maximize those relationships.
63
@SRP Fish, like guests, should be thrown out after 3 days.
2
LW3:
Okay, it was out of line to make changes to someone else’s home without getting their permission, and yes, the uncle and aunt would have understandably taken the gesture as a judgment call against them. But the father is now deceased and it does not seem reasonable to still hold that one poor call against him, particularly since he at least had good intentions. It is also a bit surprising that a 96 year old would not have a better perspective on life than to hold onto a grudge like that. It is now a moot point about whether the father should have been thanked, but it would still be good and pertinent if you heard appreciation for your dad’s good heart and wish to help his family.
18
@NM Maybe the father's uninvited home renovation really was "one poor call," but the fact that it still rankles with the uncle makes me wonder whether it was, instead, a particularly problematic example of a larger pattern of presumptuous, controlling, or intrusive behavior.
54
@Julie Yep, that's my father-in-law. He will do "home renovations" (often unwanted by the actual homeowners) without getting anyone's permission - like while they're away at work. He will do this even if that particular thing is something that person expressly stated they did NOT want. He just thinks he knows better, and he expects to be thanked each time. The one nice thing about renting right now is that it's my sisters-in-law and not my husband or myself who actually have to deal with it! It's part of a larger personality issue that has to do with, as you say, control and presumption, and it manifests in many ways, including intense judgment and an inability to support any opinions differing from his own. If my father-in-law did something like that to me, I'd be furious too, partially out of so many years of putting up with so much controlling and sometimes truly unbelievable behavior.
24
@NM There's no way to know if the brother who did the repairs had good intentions or not. The fact that he didn't ask permission first suggests that the agenda he had didn't spring from altruism...
4
L1: I find it very hard to imagine insisting that a family member on vacation shouldn't nap if they feel that they want to nap. You can feel free to restrict phone use (but only when they are spending time with you and only in your own house), but you can't dictate when they feel tired.
30
@not nearsighted Well this extended napping is basically child neglect unless it has bee previously agreed that the Grandparents will be babysitting / responsible for the child. Which is why it needs to be discussed in advance, and if the grandparents want to limit the babysitting time, that's their prerogative.
20
@not nearsighted I felt embarrassed recently when I zoned out by being on my phone at a big family shindig my in-laws threw, but when I looked back at WHY I was on my phone, I felt a little better about my behavior. I was seated at a big table where no one knew me well, and I couldn't move around to go talk to relatives I was closer to. After an hour of surface-level chit chat with semi-strangers, I wanted an escape but I wasn't allowed to physically wander off. I apologized to the woman sitting next to me at one point and she said "Don't worry about it!" and then went back to an in-depth conversation about something going on in her suburban neighborhood. No one there was interested in engaging me on conversation, and they were having a great time catching up. I'm an introvert, so I tried to keep my head above water for a while, but this is exactly the sort of situation that exhausts me.
Someone else brought up that maybe the kids were on their phones because they had work, but it's also possible that they're on their phones because they need an escape from the grandparents but can't physically leave. No one chooses to be on their phones when they're having a delightful time.
27
@not nearsighted No you can't "restrict" their phone use. They're adults!
4
Elizabeth,
From the perspective of a 67 year old, it depends on the nature of your relationship with your friend. In some relationships barbed comments are exchanged as terms of endearment. In others, perhaps yours, what would be a playful riposte can be interpreted as an insensitive attack. Sounds like you need to clarify your relationship with your friend.
17
@Jim
The funny part is, I sometimes feel this way and I am a 45 year old man. If someone said "don't be an old man", I would chalk it up to the fact that I have a teaching job, I have young kids, and I need sleep to function during the day. I agree with Jim that it "depends on the nature of your relationship with your friend." My impression is that when a 60 year old calls a 70 year old an "old lady", the age distinction might lead to more offense than if it is someone who is the same age.
11
@Jim Yeah. I'm 59. If I said I had to go to bed early and a friend told me not to be an old lady, I'd say "But I am one!" and laugh it off and not give it another thought. (And go to bed early as planned. Philip is right, self care is awesome.)
18
@Laura
Exactly.
1
10 days is way too long for house guests. Suggest they go to a hotel or rent an apartment nearby. I had a house guest who stayed for 9 days and it killed our friendship.
90
@James Gaston - Not true for everyone. We used to spend 10 days to two weeks with my parents in Florida and it was never long enough for them. It was always "maybe next time you can stay longer." We actually could have enjoyed staying longer while at the same time we were anxious to get back to our normal lives at home. My husband's parents lived closer and we visited them more frequently for much shorter periods of time--and that was never enough either. The refrain there was always, "we wish you could come more often." Meanwhile, we almost never got to go on any real vacations to places we would have loved to have visited in order to spend time with my parents and missed weekend events at home in order to spend time with my in-laws. And to top it off, both sets of parents were jealous of the time we spent with the other set. Argh. Now they're all gone, and we miss the time we spent with them all.
43
@James Gaston
Yes, fish and houseguests stink after 3 days. Hotels are a godsend. Even if they want to stay with family for half the trip to save money, get a hotel (or cheap motel!) for the other half.
5
Assuming your kids are employed, they're using their precious vacation time up to visit you. 10 days is a lot. That's more than half of what most normal people get and most normal people end up using up the other half largely on things like dr's visits, taking care of sick kids, interviewing, etc. This is literally their vacation. If they can't actually re-charge and rest while visiting you, then they will stop visiting you and go to Hawaii next winter instead. I sure would! You also sound like you don't actually want to spend any time with your granddaughter. Most grandparents would be grateful to finally get some one-on-one time. If that's the case, then why are your kids visiting you at all? Sounds to me like they'd be better off going somewhere where someone's not going to dictate how they vacation.
132
@Kate
My brother and SIL and kids live in the same city as my mom. My mom spends the winter in Florida and travels to her home city where my brother and SILl live for Christmas. The day after Christmas they all head to Florida to my mom's winter condo for a week. My brother and SIL and the kids return to Florida for a long weekend in February and then for a week or so during spring break in March. My brother and SIL are not that close to my mom, but they love the free vacation and childcare.
2
@Kate "The food is bad, and such small portions!" comes to mind. A person who would fault someone for napping on their hard-earned vacation and calls the mother of a grandchild "lazy" does not sound like a gracious host at all. Of course they should pick up after themselves and by good guests, but the way this letter drips of disdain, I cannot imagine that this will be a problem going forward for the reasons Kate adeptly explains. My comment will have to stop there because I cannot think of anything charitable to say to someone who would treat a child, much less a grandchild, so ambivalently and can't understand why napping or mindless screen time (or ya know, scratching out one's eyes with a dull pencil), would be preferred.
25
For the "old lady" letter, life is too short to be offended. I would love for your advice to be ignore this little perceived infraction and value the friendship. I'll bet the friend considers herself to be an "old lady," too, and, while being too pushy, wants to spend time with her friend. Push back, sure, but don't be angry. My dad has been so offended by the comments of friends over the years that now, in his mid-eighties, he has no friends.
Don't choose to be offended when loyal, generous friends say or do dumb things. Hopefully, they'll be forgiving when you say or do something dumb. Just be happy they want to be with you and you're not always sitting around alone.
True friendships must be valued!
80
@All At Once
I agree. Someone saying to their friend, "Don't be an old lady" may be teasing and have no idea that the friend is going to take it seriously.
11
@RVC
Teasing - the bully's passive-aggressive go-to method of communicating. And I'd be just as offending by the "lady" part as the "old" part of this hoary and denigrating cliche.
2
For the in-law question... both of our families live out of state so every single vacation that we take is to one of their homes. We would love to take the kids somewhere else but alas with working full time and generally busy schedules, limited vacations and limited vacation funds, this is our only time off. We get guilt tripped when we suggest not traveling for a school vacation. So, when I get there, I bring a good book and let the grandparents spend time with their grandkids-- that's the point of the visit. I'm more involved when we're at my parents house and my husband is more involved when we're at my in-law's house. Prepping to travel and traveling with kids (especially with a 3 year old) is exhausting. Either go visit your grandchildren sometimes OR cut your son and daughter in-law some slack, appreciate that is is their vacation that they are using to visit you and spend time enjoying your grandchild. Otherwise, let them stay in the comfort of their own home and don't complain to them that you never get to see your grandchildren.
162
@Katie P Yes, this is our situation, too. Based on the LW's tone and judgment (and complaining about clothes on the floor for people who have a toddler!), it's quite possible that the daughter-in-law would rather spend her vacation almost anywhere else.
33
Re LW#1... Adult kid here, with a 7-yr-old kiddo, who just returned from a week's visit to my mom and her longtime partner. It's about mutual respect, understanding, and a real desire to enjoy each other's company. I laughed at LW's comments about her adult son & his wife's home (unwashed dishes, clothes on the floor) - that's my house too! Despite my best intentions, let me add. But with two professional working parents and a kid, it's tough to keep all those dishes clean (especially with a broken dishwasher - oy!). When my mom visits me, she washes all my dishes - over my protests, but she wants to help. She never shames me over the state of my house! When I visited her, I pitched in. I also made sure my kiddo cleaned up after himself and didn't make a mess of their beautiful home. But mornings I slept in, and my mom was happy for the extra one-on-one time that gave her with her grandson, who she seldom gets to see. It also allowed her to "mother" me - helping me actually get some of my sorely needed rest! Working parents are strung out and need more rest than they get. Grandparents deserve respect when adult kids visit - they shouldn't be taken advantage of. You know what helps mediate all this? Communication! I thanked my mom and her partner daily for hosting us and all that went with that. She thanked me daily for being there. We all left with happy memories and are looking forward to next time. Just talk with your kids, be respectful, and loving!
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@Dogstarra Hear, hear!! Thank you for that wonderful comment. Communication is always key.
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@Dogstarra
Yours is what a family is. Mutual love, respect and dependency. Communication is a part of it.
The adult son not cleaning or taking responsibility seems like a childish rebellion, still being self-indulgent and not a grown up. I can't at the same time imagine your mom writing to NYT if you acted the same, for whatever reason, but handling it differently.
You reap what you sow (apart from bad draughts, locust infestation, etc).
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@Dogstarra Really good thoughts. But could we all please stop saying "kiddo"? It sounds like some kind of safari animal, or a 1920s gun moll.
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There’s a big difference between 60 and 70 years old. Tell your friend you just don’t have the energy.
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@Paulie she doesn't need to fib, she explained clearly - socializing 2 nights in a row will lead to her not sleeping well.
I'm in my 50's and this started for me in my 40's.
I love getting out, seeing friends, going to events.
But I also like being a well rested person so I am at my best in EVERYTHING ELSE I have to do.
It's not an age thing, per se. It is a "This is how my brain/body works, I understand my limits and am taking best care of myself." a friend should want this for people they care about.
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Re: Elizabeth
Often friends joke around with each other. Another piece of advice is to loosen up and not infer bad intent. Also, you ARE an old lady - so you may as well own it, your social interactions and sanity might benefit from it.
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Luke S,
Thanks for your opinion! Age is an attitude, a reflection of how well you've taken care of yourself, and how well you look in your jeans. My social interactions are exciting, thank you, so exciting that I can't sleep at night!
Elizabeth
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@Luke S
Glad I don't live in Denver if 60 is considered an old lady. I dare you to keep up with me and my 60-70+ year old friends for one week.
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@Luke S : I would have said: “Yup, I am an old lady - so bug off.”
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One day your son and his wife will grow up and reward your generosity and patience by secretly painting your house while you are away on vacation. Just kidding. As others have commented, try discussing your concerns and agreeing on some house rules.
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Dear Letter Writer #1: Don’t worry about saying anything. I am sure you have already made your contempt clear for your daughter-in-law!
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@MH I would feel contempt for anyone who spent inordinate amounts of time scrolling on a cell phone.
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@Eli Because that's not something you enjoy or value.
But for some of us that is our only quick and easy joy, calm, quite space.
I use my smartphone to ensure I have my own bubble when I need it - in order to quell anxiety and PTSD.
What looks to you like a waste of time or idle folly is me trying to cope with feelings or an environment that doesn't feel safe, I want to run, I want to get away from all people, I want to scream out loud all the thoughts the anxiety weasels in my head are spewing.
Trust me, I am doing us all a favor noodling on my device and being able to remain in the situation, event, gathering, room at the same time.
We are all having OUR OWN EXPERIENCE, you don't enjoy time on your device? Great, do what works for you but don't judge my behavior through your lens and decide you are the arbiter of how People Should Act (be).
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LW4: Ability to keep doing activities isn’t necessarily part of being young or old. My whole life, I have been a homebody and by nature am not too high energy. It’s just who you are and that’s fine. If your friend likes to keep going, she should find other companions so that you’re not being asked more than what works for you. Just tell her that you want to enjoy one outing and that means being rested and in good form to do so. So long as she understands that she’s not being rejected personally, she should respect you and appreciate those things you can share in.
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For the rude work environment: It is really poor form to use imperatives rather than requests, and to fail thanking someone for help. The only way it might reasonably ruffle someone’s feathers about how they approach this assistant is if they get singled out or corrected by you for how they speak. So the suggestion of addressing a group, such as at a staff meeting, is really good. Say something like ‘The new assistant is really great and deserves to hear Please and Thank you more often. Little gestures make a big difference in the environment.’ And, yes, use good manners yourself and offer a sympathetic ear about others’ shortcomings.
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Regarding the poorly treated office assistant, I want to offer a suggestion. Lead by example. Without comment to, or criticism of your colleagues, be an example of kindness to the office assistant. Kindness can be contagious when it is not preachy.
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@H In MA Exactly! I had the same thought. Just one person who shows appreciation and doesn't take him for granted will probably make a difference.
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@H In MA Sounds passive-aggressive to me. And with this clueless bunch, it's likely that no one will notice. Say something!
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No grandchildren yet, but I suspect caring for a toddler and house guests for 10 days might be too much for my husband and I. So be honest with your kids about your ability to babysit your grandchild, and ask them to help with the common area clean-up. Keep the visit less demanding--take out dinners, etc. Even spring for a babysitter to allow for a double date night out!
But, try hard to be flexible, especially if their visits are infrequent. A good sense of humor helps! Most importantly, think about what you can do to associate more joy with the on-going relationship you have with your kids--think of other ways to describe your daughter-in-law than "extremely lazy."
Life is short. So many families are estranged. My busy young adult kids and their partners are not perfect, but I am glad they still want to make the effort to travel to visit their parents and seem (or pretend) to enjoy staying with us!
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@KM THIS!
LW this is a lot of give and take going both ways.
Unless they cannot otherwise afford a vacation of their choice or even if they can - they ARE CHOOSING to come and visit you and give You quality time with your grandchild.
You are giving them a lovely environment and some support and a little spoiling - when my elders treat me like a fellow adult and also indulge my favorite ice cream or hours to read quietly by myself - I can't wait to return that love and support - let me clean out the spare room, detail the bathrooms - what ever isn't easy for them anymore.
What if you had a conversation (when the travel plans are being made, not the day they arrive) where you ask them what this time means to them? What do they most need while with you. If they say - as much child care as you can, you can counter - how about 2 hours a day and one out of the house outing while they stay home and rest, nap, veg on your phone uninterrupted. And you ask that in your house they do X amount of cleaning up after themselves, in the moment, not later because the mess makes you bananas...etc
No judgments - just needs stated, negotiated and try for as many of you as possible getting what you want from the visit.
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LW1: If you must say something to preserve your sanity, make it only about your own limitations being left to watch the grandchild. It sounds like the son and daughter-in-law really need some R&R, which is not surprising for parents of a toddler, so why not appreciate the chance to give them some support? And if it really bothers you that they’re lounging around, why not think of some activities that everyone could have fun doing and explain that you would like to enjoy their company when you are all together? Asking for some quality time is surely better than being critical.
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The key here is communication. Offer to babysit at certain times, so they can sleep in or nap; that doesn't mean you have to do it every day. Use your words.
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If you can afford it (and your “winter home” suggests that’s possible), consider putting them up, perhaps for a shorter stay, at a nearby hotel. What? That is outrageous. I don't care if they are millionaires if they work and have a child they can pay for a hotel on their own. Here is a novel thought: be honest and sit down and talk to them about it in a kind way. It worked for me and I find life much easier than sitting and stewing about it.
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@Zoenzo Because adult kids are just dying to vacation in their parents’ retirement communities, am I right?
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Depends on how often they see their grandparents. I loved seeing my grandma in her retirement community because we lived so far away. She loved introducing me to her neighbors, who were all very kind. I can't tell if you can't remember being a child, were a spoiled child, had mean it scary grandparents, or simply never had grandparents. When I was young I would take any excuse to see my grandparents.
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@Zoenzo agreed that they should all talk and use their words to clarify expectations. But no, just because they work doesn't necessarily mean they can afford a motel, especially after paying travel costs and whatever their day to day child care expenses are....
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Enjoy the visits from your son, granddaughter & family! 10 days is a gift for you all.
My 3 children have so many fond grandma stories from the time they spent with her (with & without parents). I'm sure her beautiful home was not perfect while they were there but she must have cherished their company as she was always asking us to leave them with her.
Of course, my parents did keep a list of things they needed help with when we were there, heavy lifts, hh fixes, etc.
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