My sister in law is making $2500 per month just sitting at home and posting rubbish from Mike Bloomberg to her social media accounts.
3
Goodness, Frank ... democracy is by definition the worst system of government imaginable; except for all the others ... (a mangled Churchillian quote)
I too was put off by the two or three moments of overtalk that lasted minutes too long but given such diversions into to gibberish is, IMO, anticipated with this many people on the stage, I considered democracy the source and accept it.
Indeed, every single soul on that stage is a more competent leader than Donald Trump, whose stupidity will no doubt go down in history as the father of the big kill (Conorovirus pandemic).
The media and its thinking was responsible for the elevation of trump to the office of presidency by its gift of billions of dollars worth of air time (of which they got their cut, BTW)
1
What is a "political strategist" in the US? Someone who plays on the emotions of the ignorant?
2
God help us. Get ready for 4+ more years of Trump and our country's slide toward dictatorship.
1
I’m looking forward to SNL’s skit on Trump's press conference this afternoon.
Why is this called a "debate?" It's a media spectacle-event for Cable and Broadcast networks trying to capitalize on ratings by using reality TV techniques.
The Dem.Party should fund and host thoughtful interviews where SKILLED journalists asked thoughtful questions to each candidates and gave them 5 minutes to answer. Maybe the audience ratings would plummet, but for people who wanted to "get to know" the way candidates think and behave, it would benefit the overall Dem voter turnout.
Watching these network media types ask questions like "Bernie - you have 30 seconds until we interrupt you to comment on why Warren and Bloomberg called you a flaming supporter of Castro. "Warren, (until we interrupt you, tell us why Pete called you unelectable and how that made you feel? " "Amy, with only 3% of the polls, why don't you drop out?")
These "reality show" debates with insulting and antagonistic questions may help candidates raise money b/c they are staged like Roman Colosseum events, but they are only useful in tearing down thoughtful people who are running for an elected office.
6
When Bernie Sanders ran for Mayor of Burlington, VT,
his opponents called him a “communist” and said
he couldn’t win... and if he did, it would be a disaster!
They were wrong! He WON!
And became one of the best mayors in the city’s history.
When Bernie Sanders ran for the U.S. House,
his opponents called him a “communist” and said
he couldn’t win... and if he did, it would be a disaster!
They were wrong! He WON!
And became one of the best Congressmen in VT history.
When Bernie Sanders ran for the U.S. Senate,
his opponents called him a “communist” and said
he couldn’t win... and if he did, it would be a disaster!
They were wrong! He WON!
And became one of the best Senators in VT history.
NOW BERNIE SANDERS IS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT...his opponents call him a “communist” and say
he can’t win... and if he does, it will be a disaster!
They are wrong yet again!
And WE are about to elect one of the best
Presidents in U.S. HISTORY!!!
8
Everyone is freaking out about Bernies so called weaknesses that trump is so going to pounce on. But what of trumps weaknesses and the opportunities those entail. So Bernie is a socialist, but trump is a verified sociopath. A disgraced impeached corrupt foul-mouthed, lying racist mysogynist malignant narcissist. Even the economy which is his only so called positive is about to tank. And it was Obamas economy anyway. A point they should be making every time they open their mouths. The endless chicken little the sky is falling talk from the dems and the pundits is depressing and the endless squabbling among the candidates is disgusting. They are all so eager to attack each other when what they should be doing is attacking and contrasting their positions with trumps. Bernies Healthcare for all or trumps no Healthcare for anyone? The list goes on and on.
3
If the Democratic party is having a freak out in the face of a Sanders victory, it’s awfully telling. It’s what happens to people too, when they are faced with a fundamental contradiction between two incompatible ideas. James Baldwin once wrote that “the Negro is a form of insanity that overtakes white men.” Perhaps a socialist, similarly, is a form of insanity that overtakes Americans.
5
Surely, those who hate public or "socialized" spending will immediately stop using the pubic highways, the pubic health service, the CDC, the inland waterways, the water from the reservoirs, the flood control systems, the interstate highways, the federal highways, the public currency, etc, etc, etc....
8
Bernie is an outsider to the democratic elites and leadership. I'm sorry about that. He's not incremental. But if he can energize enough young and new voters he can be good for the dems and the country. Capitalism has become too rapacious, a brutal, anti-social strain that has lost the confidence in a majority of our young people and that should concern us all. Enough talk, especially those phony Davos events where the winners wring their hands and moan about how things should be better for more of their countrymen. Time for action. Time for a Warren or Bernie. The rest are not good enough for our corrupting economic inequality. Our social safety net needs strengthening and that will cost the rich, especially, to pay more taxes. It can't be helped. If it doesn't happen next time we could easily get a republican much worse than Trump. A smart sociopathic dictator.
5
Democrats must always keep in mind that the White House is not the only game in town. It would be a disaster if they lost the House. A horrible disappointment if they can not win the Senate. They have to nominate a candidate who can enhance the Party's ability to win both houses. Sanders will have serious difficulty carrying PA and OH. And surrounding states. What will his candidacy do to Senate and House candidates? I am worried about that. And Democrats, STOP the constant attack on millionaires and billionaires. And raging against corporations. Who employs all those millions of people drawing paychecks? Don't continually bite the hands that feed you.
2
I'm dismayed that we are modeling Trump's behavior in an attempt to get rid of a President whose behavior we abhor. Let's model our better selves, not the worse we've seen in our nation's history.
1
These so called "debates" are nothing at all like real debates.
Watching one is more like watching "The Real Housewives of NJ". Why does the Democratic party allow its candidates to make fools of themselves so the networks can increase their ratings by encouraging the candidates to show their ugliest sides.
Why not have a round table discussion format where the candidates are asked questions about important issues and each one given adequate time to present their ideas on the subject at hand as an intelligent and rational adult.
I don't care who can come up with the best one liner or meanest insult. I want to know how a future president is prepared to attack the problems this country is facing now.
2
I felt like I was watching an embarrassing public argument.
1
Debates, in general, seem to do little other than boosting a network's viewership and possibly advertising revenue. The more mud slung, the better the ratings.
I wish people would just turn off their TVs.
Mr. Bruni. I have to join the large chorus of your readers who are asking you to consider the paradigm of the masses: To wit: "...gold mines for material that Trump can use to portray him as an ideological fringe figure." There is no person on the planet (save himself) of whom Trump won't make outrageously derisive claims. Ask Tiffany. It's the reality. Get over it. "I’d edit into a campaign commercial and blanket the airwaves." Thank you. Super-helpful. Are you moonlighting? Senate and House Dems are "running away from your platform as fast as they possibly can." That platform is precisely what "the Squad" and so many other successful 2018 congressional races responded to and ran on. Where have you been? "Liberal" is milquetoast apologist for not being "Progressive." We, the great unwashed, demand progressive reform. In this, we have a lot more in common with most 2016 Trump voters than you realize.
Humphrey was "electable." Mondale was "electable." Dukakis was "electable." Gore was "electable." Kerry was "electable." HR Clinton was "electable."
I'm getting so tired of this hand-wringing of yours, Frank, that I have to admit that I do not look forward to reading your columns any longer. Just a thought - instead of gloom and doom 24/7, try to find something positive to write about - like how we Dems will unite behind WHOEVER runs against Trump. POTUS himself is the secret weapon in our arsenal.
2
By calling Bibi Netanyahu a racist, Sanders basically wrote off most of the traditional Jewish vote, which leans heavily Democratic. If Sanders is the final candidate standing, he may have just assured Trump's victory.
4
Time to team up. Assuming that to be viable, a ticket must have 1 progressive and 1 moderate, 1 male and 1 female, How about a Sanders-Klobachar ticket? A Warren-Buttigieg ticket? If they can reconcile, a Bloomberg-Warren ticket?
1
What a mess!
And the Democratic National Committee is totally responsible for this mess. All of them should resign. Immediately.
Sanders isn’t a Democrat. So he should not be in the debates nor running in our primary. And he should not be allowed into the National Convention.
What a mess!
I’m not voting for Sanders under any condition. Period.
1
Bernie Sanders is the next president of the United States.
7
"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat." Will Rogers
5
the problem is not that Burnie's policies are so radical, it is that he and Warren present themselves *AS* radicals and THAT will turn off some voters and energize Trump supporters. That is why some of us don't think either can win - despite the polls that show him winning??????
who knows???????????????
1. These are not debates.
2. All moderators in each one of these so called ‘debates’ are horrible and the questions are aimed at getting each of the candidates to fight with one another. As if it’s a reality TV show.
3. Responses to questions are limited to a ridiculously small amount of time. Soundbites only.
4. Watching grown people who are running for the highest office in the land flailing their arms about so that the sub-par moderator will select them is humiliating.
I no longer watch these. It’s a waste of my time. And this goes for either party’s ‘debates.’ They’re a joke.
1
I just read Bruni's other piece written today, "Nobody Likes Bernie".
Talk about mean! Let's talk underhanded. Bruni first begins with Hillary's remarks- nobody likes to play with Bernie, then says that it is Bernie's ideas that people like, so he doesn't need charm. Then he slyly pairs Bernie with Trump, that's a huge stretch! Bottom line, the whole article is just another way for another columnist to pretend he has something meaningful about Bernie when actually the writing is designed to get in as many barbs and insults as possible. I don't understand the motivation behind these constant put downs. It's pretty much the comments only that I respect, along with NYT facts and news coverage, and some of the columnists who don't appear to have an axe to grind.
2
Did the Dems devour each other or did they allow free speech and disagreement?
I notice there is no disagreement in the GOP right now
1
With Medicare for all, much is left unsaid and unexplained. How many millions in this country are employed by healthcare industries and insurance and pharma? Many, at least 18 million,of employed people. How would a transition work? We know their pay right now is by far higher than in other countries that have single payer. How would the necessary transition to lower their profits and compensation to reduce costs be accomplished? Right now Medicare is for seniors. It’s a different system that is much more limited, focused on geriatrics and end of life yet still requires supplemental insurance copays with a wide long term care gap. We need national tv/media full length discussion about how this giant ship of medicine can be steered so as not to harm a lot of highly trained employed people and currently sick patients. Otherwise fears will be exploited by Trump.
5
Democrats weren't attacking themselves. They were attacking 2 who are not Democrats yet want the Democratic nomination for President
1) Michael Bloomberg: supported George Bush, who let the assault weapons ban expire, gave tax breaks to the wealthy, tried to privatize Social Security, appointed Alito and Roberts to the Court, giving us Citizens United (& was cutting brush ignoring warnings of 9/11, then took us to war incompetently and under false pretenses).
Also, Bloomberg supported candidates who put McConnell in charge of the Senate, including Elizabeth Warren's Senate opponent, Scott Brown, who had taken Teddy Kennedy's seat, knocking the public option out of Obamacare .
2) Bernie Sanders
Bernie, not a Democrat, created the phrase "Establishment Democrat" with the effect of turning people against the Democratic Party. A young Sanders supporter told me it was Bernie's idea to raise the minimum wage; actually, us "older folks" know that Democrats created the minimum wage and raise it anytime they have the Presidency, Senate and House (which, unfortunately, is not often enough due to people who don't stand up for the dramatic difference between Democrats and Republicans).
All Democrats voted to overturn Citizens United, have been fighting for universal health care for decades, gave us the Brady Bill for background checks on gun sales (Sanders voted against)....a long shared list of progressive policies.....
4
I have watched and listened to all the D hopefuls since the beginning, some I liked and watched as they dropped out. Others, like Sanders, I have listened to with amazement as to how he promises all this "free stuff" and people just "fall in love with him".
If people would stop believing with their hearts and listen with their minds, they would soon realize that nothing is for free. This is a Democracy. It has always been a democracy and the government does not just give people free stuff, like "free healthcare", "free education", "free childcare" "free whatever you want for your vote".
Someone has to pay for all that and that someone is the American taxpayer! besides it has to approved by Congress before it ever materializes.
This election is not like any in the past. We must stop wishing for dreams to come true and for a savior to give us all these "free" stuff, but for a democracy that will last. for someone to repair the damage already done to our country, for someone who can rebuild the damage done to our allies and the world order, to find peace and to find respect in one another again.
4
@ML
We have Medicare for all and universal coverage here in Australia and don't consider it "free stuff".
If a politician here tried take it away he would be taken away instead.
It is not a simple commercial transaction whereby you pay for something and then get it. It has complex side benefits that become central.
Other countries can manage it.
Imagine how many geniuses with IQs of 180 in the USA that miss out on contributing because their single mums could not afford higher education. Your view of social services as simple financial contractions is very simplistic.
We say mum; you say mom. The world is a very complex place full of nuances and unforeseen outcomes.
7
Do Democrats need to support Sanders, now, the way that Republicans support Trump, now? Is that necessary in order to assure that Democrats will all show up and vote? Will that assure that Sanders is elected President?
Maybe, that could happen. But what if Trump wins because only about a third of the electorate feels comfortable with Sanders? What then?
1
If that happens, those that stayed home will have to live with their decision to ratify trump’s legitimacy.
1
In 2016, the DNC and many lawmakers supported Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders and did everything possible to deny Bernie Sanders the nomination of the Democratic Party. The result, Democrats lost the White House, Senate, and the House. I ask those who are against Bernie Sanders, how come with such solid backing, Hillary Clinton's nomination was a total failure? Not only that, as a result of their failure, the Democrats gave Trump two conservative Supreme Court judges and hundreds of conservative judges all over the country. Further, we are still at war in many places all over the world. The affordable healthcare of Obama has been gutted very badly. Trump administration is fighting to destroy the Affordable Healthcare Act and even remove the preexisting condition coverage. Despite all these, DNC, the so-called corporate loving moderate Democrats, and the media are predicting disaster if Sanders were to become our president without an iota of evidence.
Finally, to those who are falsely predicting a doomsday scenario about Sanders, I ask who do they think other than Sanders will beat Trump, retain the House and regain the Senate? I think that when they so strongly criticize Sanders, they should have the courage to name the person who will beat Trump, retain the House, and regain the Senate.
10
@azarn
So do Sanders voters not believe that Russia interfered in 2016 either?
1
As a liberal, none of this impresses or even interests me.
Come November, I will vote for the Democratic nominee.
6
Brokered convention...we sort of had that in 2016, although we didn't realize it at the time. And that worked out so well.....
3
@Michael Smith
Good grief. Clinton won with a 55.2 percent majority. Sanders finished with only 43.1 percent. If not too much trouble, please let's all try to stay on the fact ranch? Baseless comments like this are divisive and counterproductive. As for why things worked out like that, some of the blame must certainly go to Sanders and his supporters. The number of Sanders voters who voted for Trump in the swing states were 2 to 6 times larger than Trump's winning margins there.
9
Frank, here's a thought. If former mayor Pete and the other center right candidates think Sanders would lose to Trump and tear the party down if nominated then why don't they do a better job in campaigning and appealing to the voters?
Maybe both parties need to be town down to the studs and rebuilt. They are run by lifers who are holding on for dear life and feeding at the public trough AND not working for the people who voted them in but respond slavishly to those that funded them.
We need a renewal of both parties and if one or both burn down, and I would argue that the GOP is already broken down, its a black hole waiting to be consumed, newer leadership will arise to take over and probably do a better job for a while.
6
@Gary Valan
Which is why, if the same thing weren't happening on the left, we would have the best chance at our once chance at conquering this dragon and breaking the evil spell and letting that party stagger around for awhile and come to terms with themselves and regroup under a different name with hopefully some higher standards.
We have one shot to defeat Trumpism at its source in a general election, and transforming ourselves into Bernieism seems like a rather perversely polarizing way to go about it.
2
@Gary Valan
"If former mayor Pete and the other center right candidates ... Maybe both parties need to be town [torn] down to the studs and rebuilt. ... We need a renewal of both parties and if one or both burn down ..."
None of these candidates are center right, Ducky. And it is insulting for you folks to maunder on and on along these lines. All of them, including Sanders, agree on the same broad general aims, including the principle that good and affordable health care is a right. Nobody should have to spell out here yet again why the parties are not the same. Finally, the research says that the Trump base and to a lesser extent the Sanders base share a desire to burn society down to the ground. Your words here are an example of just that kind of thinking.
2
Ironically if Sanders was not in the race it would have been even worse.
3
@sapere aude
If Sanders was not in the race, Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren and Pete Buttigieg would be the top three candidates because Mike Bloomberg wouldn't have entered the race and Tom Steyer's raison d'être would be moot.
1
As Mr. Bruni states, all of the candidates who took part in this debate are better prepared than Donald Trump to lead the country and the world during what might be the most critical time in human civilization.
Unfortunately, the goal of the debaters last night was to pull out all stops to make each other look bad - at times resorting to ad hominem attacks. Instead, their overarching goal should be to defeat Mr. Trump. To create the best chance of doing this, the candidates need to stop tearing each other apart and prepare to settle their differences. They each need to pledge today that they will dedicate themselves to get the vote out for the candidate that is chosen to lead the party - unlike 2016 when many of the staunch supporters of Mr. Sanders sat out in November. The survival of our planet depends on it.
6
@Scubed
True and what is being overlooked in all this is that the fear of Sanders, the fear of looking bad in such squabbles, the horror of something going terribly wrong like the minor matter of late results in Iowa, the fear of Cubans in Florida and so on is all predicated on one underlying factor:
the widespread terror that Trump will be re-elected.
This cannot be good news for Trump.
Events such as this soon to be forgotten squabble sometimes do not signify what they may seem at first.
There is an appeal in Bernie's speaking the truth even if it might hurt him politically; an appeal intensified by 16000 lies from a very stable genius.
1
How about a debate segment in which each candidate makes her/his argument as to WHY the next federal (esp. Supreme Court) appointments are so critical, and why a Democratic President -- and definitely not Trump -- should make them?
Let each candidate explain an issue -- Citizens United, guns, voting rights, gerrymandering -- and vie to see who can speak sense to the American people most clearly. Focus on areas of agreement. Allow us to judge which of you can best present our common Democratic message.
9
"This felt like a genuine freakout."
And that's exactly what it is. Bernie is right that virtually nothing that he's espousing is considered "radical" in any western democracy and much of it has already been implemented there.
Every individual on that debate stage knows that no president gets anything like everything they campaign on, and that Congress can (and often does) stop things.
It is ridiculous to pretend that Bernie Sanders would not be subject to precisely the same constraints as all presidents are. It's also ridiculous to pretend that "democratic socialist" and "socialist" are in any way synonymous.
And I say all of the above with Bernie not being my first choice (and I won't be casting my vote for him on Super Tuesday, but would gladly do so if he does become the nominee of the Democrats).
7
Yes, the last debate was awful! And, the performance of Elizabeth Warren was even worse. I am a fan of Senator Warren, but it was sickening for me watch her take down Bloomberg the way she did. It appears her rancor toward Bloomberg is very personal. I noticed her visibility shaking while she was going after him. Did she gain any votes? I doubt it. Hopefully, the dust will begin to settle as the Democratic primary process unfolds. Too much to ask?
4
I would say that these debates are near useless as little evidence and much name calling and trite unimportant comments fill the room. The public would be better off without any debates. The could get the information they need on candidate websites no detailed information about what each of the candidates want to accomplish with high priority and how they might do it.
In foreign affairs we elect a near 4 year dictator, in domestic, a person likely to get nothing done due to many obstacles.
The public should actively boycott the debates until they are getting serious information which they need.
6
If all voters who claim that they’re “anybody but Trumpers”, then electability is a non_issue, since all those voters will equally commit to and campaign for the Democratic nominee regardless of who it is; even a ham sandwich!? So vote with your heart and throw out your crystal balls! Show up and fight for a future you can believe in!
6
The whole outcry against stop and frisk or any other form of profiling is the same predictable adolescent thumping from Democrats. Any small business owner or other property owner small or large knows that profiling is a fact of survival. And as far as NDA’s go, Dem’s will stupidly nail Bloomberg as someone no better than Trump.
4
Debate moderators need to have control over speaker microphones. Turn off every other mike save the speaker’s. People will stop yelling/interrupting when they realize how crazy they look talking with no sound
8
@KA Now THERE'S a good idea! The moderators could control the mic's and not talk at all.
I know, support for Education, Economic Justice, Health Care, protecting the Planet -- these are such radical revolutionary Socialist ideas. Better stick with what we know, the Right wing Dictator who rounds up immigrants, and panders to the Kleptocracies, What was I thinking..
5
Frank,
You need to address your spooked persona in a different way than taking it out on your column readers.
We need a columnist who can look a bit more objectively at what is going on with the Dem candidates. At this time in 2016, Hillary was in defense mode on the email scandal, and Bernie was starting to surge in the run up to the convention. On the GOP side, Trump was still considered an "unserious" candidate.
And every pundit, every pollster including the Pollster who is never wrong, Nate Silver got the eventual election WRONG.
Report and discuss why Bernie seems to be the candidate that appeals to the gen pop versus the elite "non-deplorables" trying to pull puppet strings like was done in 2016. Who cares about your own fear-mongering?
2
Jerry Brown on the third ballot at the convention.
He's not old, he's wise.
Vision, compassion, and extreme competence.
Cincinnatus we need you.
2
People should consider the following instead of labeling Bernie and demonizing him.
Is affordable healthcare for all good?
Is free education through state colleges good for all?
Is reducing or forgiving the student debt good?
Is paid maternity/paternity/ childcare leave good?
Is minimum wage of $15 or more good?
Is earning a living wage good?
Is modernizing our infrastructure good for the country and people.
Is ending the US's perpetual wars overseas good?
Is bringing home most of our combat forces stationed overseas good?
If the voters agree to all or most of the above, then Bernie Sanders is the right choice regardless of what label his opponents or enemies or media give him.
Finally, the fact is that we already have many social programs in our country. Therefore, de facto we are embracing some form of socialism. Now, Bernie Sanders wants to add more positive social programs in order to uplift the poor, lower middle class and middle class. So, call Bernie Sanders socialist or social Democrat or Democratic socialist, he has a very good program for most us and the country. Therefore, I fully support him even though I am an independent voter.
9
I was appalled by the way candidates spoke over each other and interrupted each other repeated in the latest debate. At the same time, I recognize, as Biden said at one point, that gentlemen (and ladies) don't get as much time from the moderators. The situation is exacerbated by the organized "chaos" that Republicans plan to create by voting in the SC Democratic primary this weekend.
But debates are among the few ways voters get to see candidates in action. Even when there are rallies nearby, most of us don't have the time or the ability to attend and spend hours waiting to see a candidate speak for 30 minutes or so. So debates, even when raucous, provide a singular opportunity to see how a candidate acts under pressure.
3
You have an extremist President who is sincerely loved. You want to run a "moderate" against him? This works how?
If you want to mitigate what's wrong with moderate proposals that will be mostly ineffective, you can elect Klobuchar or Buttigieg. If you want same old same old, try Bloomberg. If you want the good old days, go for Biden. If you want a billionaire who is willing to do something different try Steyer. If you want CHANGE, try Warren or Sanders.
What good are moderators who can't moderate?? It's up to them to shut up the yelling. The Jerry Springer-ness of this process is to get good ratings, not to inform the public about the details of their platforms. The circus is more interesting than Washington Week. The whole process is a joke. Shame on CBS.
And columnists like you, who have to dissect who "won" the debate afterwards are part of the issue. Is it a prize fight? Do we have to have winners and losers? The whole process smells.
Frank, you are a wise and experienced columnist but this column you are being blind to your own job's demands. Stop and think why Bernie would be so bad and why Warren isn't getting the attention she should. You aren't helping anything!
7
While their messages may be diametrically opposed, Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump share the same methodology. Simplify the message, repeat, pivot, and repeat once again. Berm's mantra, "medicare for all" sounds appealing. I agree with Bernie's talking points about the high cost of healthcare in the United States versus other countries, and that health care should be a right not a privilege. However, Bernie is not candid about the cost of such a plan and ignores its impact on the health care delivery system. In addition to requiring individuals to give up their current health insurance, the unintended consequence of Medicare for all will be the creation of a two tier system. Those who can afford it, will inevitably choose private care, provided by doctors who opt out of Medicare altogether, or concierge practices, where Medicare's low reimbursement rates would be supplemented by additional fees. While those who choose the private option will have access to first rate and prompt care, those covered by Medicare will face long waits and restrictive networks. This has already occurred. Insurers have narrowed networks and ratcheted up the cost of out of network services, saddling those who go this route, often on an emergency basis or for life saving treatment, with unconscionably high bills. The old adage applies --be careful what you wish for. Let's not substitute one cantankerous old man for another.
6
@Linda THANK YOU LINDA!!
The two tiered system you stated in your comment goes on in Europe right now. If you want faster and better healthcare, people with means buy private supplemental insurance plans. It incentivizes doctors to take those patients first because its higher pay. The people who can't pay extra have to wait. And the waits can be long. Even Canadians come down to the US because procedures here are on demand and they don't have to wait.
2
@RBC
Canadians come to the US and don't have to wait because they pay out of pocket the same high prices as Americans, sans insurance. Each provincial government has established acceptable wait times for necessary procedures, and will reimburse a patient who goes to the US. The cost of travel and lodging are fully borne by the patient and not recovered.
The same rule applies if a patient has to go from one province to another to get treatment. (This was, and is, the case for a lot of rural women who want access to abortion, for example.)
If they were Americans on Medicaid, they have to wait. Americans already have a two-tiered system.
1
Linda
Concentrate on flipping the Senate, too.
Copy the Australian system, which is two tiered, but with regulations that create a truly free market: no doctor here can opt out of our Medicare; private health insurance is arranged on an open market between the Insured and the insurance company - extremely few arrangements through employers; all doctors accept all private insurance covers because every health insurance company is a national company and cannot operate on only a state or county. Americans need a national perspective, not local/ feudal.
Really wish the op-ed folks would point out that Warren tries to make the case that she is more effective than Sanders, but that her goals are similar if not the same. That is not the same "stay calm and keep the plutocracy in my hands" message of Klobuchar, Buttigieg, Bloomberg, and Biden.
2
@LLS
Yeah, but the message is far more likely to be heard when he says it than when she says it.
No matter what the message, no matter who the he or she is.
As a Progressive, I’m going home with the one who brung me, Bernie Sanders since 2016, not Lizzie come lately!
Do you actually believe that if Warren were the front runner, she wouldn’t garner the same oppobrium of the Democratic elite, neo-liberals, and a few Moderates have targeted Bernie with?
For some factionalism is more salient than 2nd term Trump!
What does it mean to fully commit to the Democratic nominee regardless of who in terms of your donations, campaign volunteering, and rousing your friends and kin? Factionalism is what did McGovern in in 1972. Just Google Hubert Humphrey and his ilk. You kept blaming Bernie for not supporting Hillary enough; well, you better search your souls if a Progressive is the Democratic nominee?!
1
What we saw was panic-upon-panic. Anti-Bernie panic stems from panic about Trump that started the day he clenched the nomination. Both establishment Republicans and Democrats panicked. Then something strange happened. Republicans became Trump warriors almost overnight. They did his bidding and defended his every lie, slur, failure and attack on the institutions of our democracy.
Here's a thought for the Democratic establishment. Stop tearing down your frontrunner. Let Republicans do their worst. Let your voters speak. If Sanders wins the primary fair and a square because he's the choice of the Democratic base, get on board. Pull out all the stops to get him elected. If he wins, support his agenda like the Republicans do Trump's. That's called a "unified" party.
9
Who really got hurt? All Americans-- far left Senator Sanders has no path to win in the general election. And we've seen he is not even trying: Sanders just snubbed the two largest voting segments in Florida. How will left leading Senator Sanders affect down ballot races?
7
I am glad the other candidates took the fight to Senator Sanders and told the country in the process why his nomination spells absolute ruin for this party and country.
A lifelong Democrat, I don't like the fact that Mr. Sanders is not a registered Democrat. That alone should disqualify him. But he is going to be portrayed as an out-of-the-mainstream candidate by the most out-of-stream nominee and president in our history, one Donald J. Trump, and he and my party and nation are going to lose. The senator's rivals had to do what they did, and I am glad they did. They said nothing that is not being said in my little area of rural Virginia, where our congresswoman is a Democrat in a very red district. She is doomed if Bernie Sanders wins the nomination. But her loss is hardly the worst of it. Donald Trump and his Vichy Republicans will control the entire government and be in a position to complete the process of moving our nation to a full banana republic dictatorship. We have a national emergency of the first order, and it about damn time someone spoke out about it in the Democratic Party.
9
@Rick Gunter: Letting the interloper in only reinforced the cliche that the Democrats aren't a real political party.
1
Been a democrat my whole life. If having good healthcare is socialist, then I guess I'm one too. I don't care what kind of label you put on Bernie. If he's trying to make this a better country, give the working people a leg up, taxing millionaires and billionaires to make it work, then he's got my vote. It's not socialist to protect people. It used to be the American Way...social security, medicare, etc. I'm all for it. The fear mongering is getting old. And if the last almost 4 years of trump hasn't scared the crap out of you, I don't know what will! Vote democrat...no matter who!!!
12
@Cecilia: Trump has cut public health to divert money to the military.
2
@Steve Bolger And Trump has diverted military money to build his stupid wall.
2
i watched the debate and came away from it thinking that we'll get what we deserve, be it Trump or Sanders; Trump if we don't listen to our collective conscience and Sanders if we do. Although I wouldn't mind Klobuchar or Warren destroying Trump in a debate...or even Buddha-Judge, but he has showed a real annoying side that I think may undermine his eloquence. As for the Billionaire's, well they do add to the drama as if that is even needed...
1
I'll worry when the Democratic candidates start comparing penis sizes, attack the appearance of each other's spouses, and accuse a fellow candidate's father of assassinating Kennedy.
9
“Everything is impossible until it happens.”
Notice the statement is not "Everything that seems impossible will happen."
There's a strong possibility Sanders will lose in epic fashion, bringing down the House with him, letting the Republicans complete their destruction of our institutions and baking in deeply "conservative" jurisprudence into our courts for decades. With or without footage of Democrats criticizing Sanders the Trump campaign will have more ammunition than they know what to do with. Far better to do what is possible now to increase the possibility Sanders is defeated in the primaries.
4
@Skeptical Observer What do you suggest, that the DNC and democratic establishment put their thumb on the scales and subvert democracy? The democratic voters are speaking loud and clear. They want to both get rid of Trump and to improve the conditions of their lives. If Sanders wins the nomination he can beat Trump. But it will depend on whether the party can acknowledge that he won fair and square and unify.
2
@Skeptical Observer:The Republicans are banking on Bernie to put the Democratic Party in a grave.
5
The democratic voters are speaking loud and clear? Really? Voters in 3 small-ish states have spoken. I hardly call that a resounding endorsement of Bernie.
4
Am I the only one who thinks that we have some decent choices among the Democratic candidates, and they're nowhere near as bad as the MSM and social media make them out to be? The constant and redundant negative headlines has become just noise to me. In truth, any of the Democratic candidates would still be leagues better than what's in the the oval office now, and I will volunteer my time and vote for whoever wins the nomination with little to no reservations. I wouldn't even have to "hold my nose" to do it, whether the candidate is Sanders, Bloomberg, Biden, Warren or whoever. My vote in November will be one decision I won't have to agonize over.
My suggestion is that people ignore the constant negative attacks by the MSM, ignore the Democrats' so-called "circular firing squad", and ignore the narratives trending on social media, and instead, do their own objective research on the candidates' past voting records, their past experience, their qualifications, and their policy proposals, plans and ideas. You might be surprised at what you'll learn -- relevant information that the MSM and debate moderators don't seem interested in discussing. It doesn't take much to see that each of the candidates brings far more strengths to the table than what trump can bring. But I guess focusing on the negatives rather than on anything substantive or relevant makes for better ratings.
12
@Roberta: How many years was Bernie in the Senate to write three bills?
4
@Steve Bolger Which is one reason why Sanders isn't my first choice. I'm not exactly a fan of Sanders' voting record either. Still, should he win the nomination, I will accept it and throw my support behind him. Some of his ideas make me uncomfortable but since he'd have to work with Congress, I'm not going to spend a lot of time wringing my hands over them. Trump's ideas and his Republican enablers in Congress make me far more uncomfortable than anything Sanders has said or done.
But there are many more voters who've bought into the anti-socialist narrative about Sanders hook, line, and sinker. Sanders needs to be a bit more flexible in order to successfully fight the Republican schmear campaign targeting him as a "socialist" threat or he won't stand a chance against trump.
On another note,while volunteering for voter registration drives, I've been coming across more and more former Republicans who've left the GOP largely due to trump. Most of these voters say that while they hate what the GOP has become under trump, they still can't see themselves voting Democrat... unless it's Biden. Bloomberg and Klobuchar have also been the exceptions to their "no Democrats" rule lately. I know it's just an anecdote, but since these independent voters may be a crucial voting block, I thought it was worth sharing.
5
Many members of DNC and supporters of Hillary Clinton are determined to defeat Sanders at all costs. Therefore, with the help of CNN and MSNBC cable TV anchors, they are spreading misinformation about Sanders and his plans. The unjust criticism of Sanders is spearhead by Van Jones of CNN and Chris Matthews of MSNBC. Last night, both of them were putting fear into those who were watching CNN and MSNBC. Chris Matthews and CNN were re-igniting the Castro comment by Sanders. They deliberately did not mention the fact that President Obama made positive comments about Cuba's education and healthcare under Castro.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/02/24/amid-right-wing-effort-smear-sanders-over-cuba-comments-campaign-issues-reminder
Now, if Americans in Florida are upset or want to cut their noses to spite their faces because Sanders has made some positive comments about Cuba's education system which is a fact, let them not vote for the man who cares about their education, healthcare, paid childcare leaves, decent wages, and affordable housing. Let Matthews and Jones distort the facts about the social Democrat, Bernie Sanders.
Finally, last night, Buttigieg and Matthews were talking about losing the House. What they were not telling was the fact that in 2016, Clinton did not help at all. In 2018, it was the young progressives many of whom supporting Sanders who won. I did not vote for Clinton, but helped and voted to oust Peter Roskam. I am a senior citizen.
8
I used to take pride in being a Democrat. Now I'm just plain embarrassed.
Embarrassed by the childish display and antics of the debates.
Embarrassed by candidates like Sanders and Warren who are so infatuated with their over progressive agenda that they fail to see the damage it will do in the next election.
Embarrassed by Joe Biden who should have run in the 2016 election (but didn't for a very good reason) but is now past his sell by date.
Embarrassed by Bloomberg who should be a great candidate but isn't, so he and Steyer should pool their enormous resources and hammer Trump on every airwave and social media outlet in the country. Tell the country what a fraud he is rather than fighting windmills for the candidacy. The focus needs to tb on Trump, not you.
The only candidate who makes me feel proud is Mayor Pete. But it is embarrassing how quickly he is written off.
3
It’s was a great debate!! Democrats want to see it! The candidate emerging needs to go and fight trump, so it’s exactly what the doctor ordered.
2
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Sanders is an ideologue. Ideologues do not make good leaders for a democracy.
5
Warren lost it and lost me. She couldn't stop at the last debate going after the NDAs instead of her policies she started in again last night. She wasted value time harping on the NDAs and the monitors should have shut her up so we could hear from other candidates and what they plan to do for America.
She did horrible after that debate in Nevada and she will do bad in SC. Someone tell Warren you don't build yourself up by tearing down someone else.
4
Here's a thought, everybody:
Why don't we let the primaries play out and let the voters decide who's electable? Pundits clearly don't know anymore, and superdelegates don't either.
The best way of handing it to Trump isn't by nominating someone through the primaries, it's by having a brokered convention and having the party brass hand-pick a winner.
86
@Chris: The pundits call victories no matter how small the turnouts were in their primaries.
2
@Chris
The popular vote went to Gore, not Bush and the popular vote went to Hillary, not Trump. History would have been much different if the popular vote had carried the day. With Gore most likely we would not be stuck in the ME and Hillary may not have been the first female candidate either, had she won she would have been just as hawkish as anyone, just more rational than Trump.
8
@Chris
That's the point, Chris, nobody will have made the delegate threshold at the end of this if we have seven or eight candidates splitting the vote into Super Tuesday six days from now.
That's it. Six days from tonight, Super Tuesday, and no matter how the rest of the primaries play out, unless two drop out before or all drop out after, there's no way to avoid a brokered convention.
And that's when people will tell us, "you CAN'T let the primaries play out now and let the voters decide, not even just two or three or four of you at that point, because then Bernie won't get enough delegates before the convention, and it won't be a good look for him either way. So Democrats, stand down and let Sanders take over.
No, with Bloomberg and Steyer pouring hundreds of millions into the race in states others couldn't afford to start advertising in because they were focused on early states Bloomberg didn't even compete in, there is no "let the primaries play out."
That's why people are so angry that not one but two billionaires are buying their way into what people should have to put in the hard work and show the people skills for.
6
I was so sure that Mike Bloomberg would be the one to slow down the Bernie Sanders juggernaut as a viable mainstream moderate candidate. But after two lackluster debates and waiting for Super Tuesday I feel it's now a matter of too little too late for Mike Bloomberg to make any real difference.
1
It is the vitriol that will make it difficult - if not impossible - for any of the candidates to later convince their supporters to unify behind a nominee other than themselves, one that they have vilified with such gusto (whoever that eventual nominee might be).
And we know from 2016 that it only takes a relatively few to peel off in key states (like Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin) to hand the election to Trump.
1
Elizabeth Warren's attacks on Bloomberg came across as mean spirited. She lost points with me over this.
6
You’re right Frank, ‘This felt worse. This felt like a genuine freakout.’ They have provided the perfect storm for his re-election.
2
Jesus of Nazareth was a ‘fringe figure’, too! It did look like the party faithful were trying to crucify Bernie. And yet, individually, each voice spoke a ‘truth’ and a ‘declaration’ to get things done and improve our current global problems. WHO can be ‘distilled’ from this lot of babble?
This is not complicated.
Hugo Chavez ran in 1998 as a member of the The Fifth Republic Movement, or Movimiento V [Quinta] República, MVR) . It was a democratic socialist political party in Venezuela.
If Sanders wants to try to tell us that he is running any different of a campaign than what Chavez ran with any difference in policies or outcomes...he can hopefully share his fantasies about American Money Trees all over this land.
1
Don't fall for the fear and media hysteria. People know that Bernie is telling the truth. Even people who voted for Trump in 2016. Jump on the Bernie train and let's ride to victory.
5
I’m not sure why Mr. Bruni is so terrified of Bernie. In a Bernie-Trump contest we will actually have a “choice not an echo.” Corrupt right wing nationalist vs what would be regarded in Western Europe as a moderate left candidate. We should be celebrating such a clear and real choice (rather than a contest between two “not a dimes worth of difference” corporate clones - if we are lucky enough to get it.
7
@Rick Nicely said!
Bernie’s 2016 populist excitement has lost some of the original magnitude of newness and disaffected appeal. However, he has the grassroots appeal for young people with an abundance of energy and Boomers with an abundance of time and identification to populate a massive ground game along with fully inspired small donors including for all levels of state offices; should he win the nomination and thus, incredible coattails!
2
That debate is only scary if you believe the narrative Sanders is following some inevitable, skyrocketing path to the nomination.
C'mon people, Sanders has been polling 25-35%. Do Democrats need Andrew Yang to remind them about math? The delegate threshold in some Super Tuesday states is 15%. Subtract 30 from 100 for Sanders and divide the remaining 70 by 6 candidates. You average 11.6%, effectively zero in California. But divide by 4 and the average is a viable 17.6%.
Sanders has won one Primary—tied, actually, in delegates, with Pete Buttigieg—and one caucus, while Pete won one caucus. Joe Biden was polling in first place in S. Carolina, Sanders a close second before last night's debate.
Bloomberg and Steyer made it abundantly clear they think Sanders is the worst. Yet the support they sap is everybody else's, not his.
All we need to change that math is for the billionaires to get out and let Biden and Buttigieg, Warren and Klobuchar bob up to their true respective levels as competition for Sanders.
If they don't get out, their effect is NO Sanders competitor succeeds—maybe bringing us to a brokered convention where Sanders makes good on his Trumpian threat this week not to accept being denied the nomination.
(Think about that, all who claimed Hillary expected a coronation. Looks like ol' Uncle Bernie is tapping his feet and counting the days 'til he gets fitted for his crown because it's "his turn" now.)
Tom Steyer, Michael Bloomberg: Take your money and don't run.
7
After super tuesday, when Bernie is not only the clear front runner but the only viable winner for the nomination, the DNC and their candidates' true colors will show.
Do they care about democracy or ousting Trump like they claim? If the other candidates are staring down a 40% Bernie Sanders plurality but don't drop out and fall behind him, then all of their talk of unity and defeating Trump is empty and fake.
I can't wait to find out!
7
@Pat Miller So a 60% cumulative moderate MAJORITY should collapse for a plurality?
3
@Pat Miller: I'll believe a candidate supports democracy when they call out the Electoral College and Senate apportionment the travesties rooted in slavery that they are.
Obama's base of political neophytes left him high and dry in the crucial census year election of 2010. I doubt Bernie's bros have the decade-long attention span it takes to alter US politics, and I doubt Bernie will live that long anyway.
1
all true. but bruni is part of the problem with his early and total admiration for buttigieg. being enamored of any candidate is immature and is not what i wish to read in the pages of nytimes. i too admire buttigieg but he is far too young and inexperienced to run much less be elected. it is worrisome he THINKS he should be president of the united states. and, really !?!, he is not at this point in time, electable. bloomberg is an embarrassment. this leaves a half dozen cringe-worthy men and women. as a liberal democrat, it is a sad situation and a dangerous one. but this business of anyone with either money or ability to sell charisma should jump right in and run for president must stop. and we democrats must demand electability before we say yes.
1
Better stop whining and get behind Bernie. The democratic establishment stopped him in 2016 and we ended up with Trump. Now they are trying to cram an out of touch and almost pitiful has been like Joe Biden down our throat. Bernie’s revolution is underway and the people won’t let him be stopped.
6
The party was not devouring itself. Such exaggeration doesn't help matters. Warren descended into the cheapest and most disgusting blows (and got booed for it). Unless she has a miracle, she, along with Klobuchar, Gabbard, Steyer, and whoever else comes out near the bottom will drop out of the race. If Biden doesn't get a good number of delegates, he will be a realist and drop out.
That will leave fewer and better candidates. I hope it isn't Bernie who is the nominee, because I have serious doubts about his judgement after he praised Castro's literacy achievements.
1
@DFR He's in good company with President Obama who also had high regard for Cuba's literacy program, and their healthcare system, too! There is video and speech transcripts out there. Look them up. Maybe it is not such a bad thing to have a more nuanced view of the world, to acknowledge the good while keeping the light on the bad, to do what we have to do to prepare for the global challenges that we will need to work together on.
4
“Who got hurt” is hardly the question. ‘Who appeared a viable candidate with a good chance to defeat Trump’ is the germain question and the answer is, unfortunately, ‘no one’.
Bernie! Now is the time.
I was not for him running again. I went to his office here in Burlington where he meets with constituents and left a message that he should not run again. That was months ago.
Now, Trump is going to lose to whomever is nominated. The corona virus will see to that. I am pretty sure Bernie is going to win and that is the best thing that could happen for America!
1
I will not take a stand for or against Sanders or if he has what it takes to be the president other than to me it seems that a person of his age should realize his days as a political leader is over .
Comments are frequently about healthcare, and I can understand why .
Mainstream Democrats are panicking over a candidate that is an outspoken advocate of raising taxes and by doing so giving the American people access to healthcare and in the end having cheaper healthcare . Raising tax is in the opinions of the elite of the Democratic Party apparently an abomination!
I will give you just one example of the consequences. Virginia have roughly the same population as my Sweden Maternal deaths in Virginia are 80/100 000 among black mothers, comparable to countries like Jamaica and Colombia, 32,4 among white mothers.
According to the World Health Organization, maternal mortality declined more than 40% worldwide between 1990 and 2014. However during the same time period, there was an approximately 26% increase in maternal mortality rates in the United States.
In another country this would be considered a catastrophe, headlines and people who had to resign but one cannot find much about it in your media.
In my Sweden it’s 4/100 000 and we are worried since we haven’t improved lately...
I prefer paying tax and I just cannot understand why paying tax is an abomination to politicians that claim to be of a sane mind .
8
Nominate AK for President:
1. Nominating AK reinforces the Democrat brand and reflects the center of the Party, whereas nominating either Bernie or Bloomberg is destructive of the brand and will cause unmeasurable disruption and grief within the party-more disruption and grief than will ensue with Bernie being defeated.
2. AK is the anti-Trump by personality and tone, so rather than being a negative as some are saying, I see this as a positive as it will draw independents and some GOP members who are worn out by Trump's tweeting and narcissim, even if they approve of his policies. AK's ability to draw across Party lines in Minnesota should prove key to winning critical Midwest states.
3. AK can get the millenials and Bernie supporters to the polls better than Bloomberg.
4. AK is a progressive on key Dem issues of inequality of wealth and tax policy.
5. AK has stood fast on two key policies that may decide the election: (a) she did not raise her hand as being for "open borders." She said we should enforce our borders but they should have "wide gates." (b) She has wisely refused to say she would ban "fracking" because she no doubt knows that it is (i) key to carrying Pennsylvania; (ii) the key to hundreds of thousands of jobs in other states and thus a positive factor in the economy; and (iii) the main contributor to the increased national security that comes from being energy independent.
2
Here's a proposition.
Assume that the quality of a debate directly reflects the quality of the candidates that are participating.
So after last night the simple conclusion is:
They are all awful.
Read it and weep.
1
@Pono - No, they are not all awful. They are all desperate, and that's something different. There are several very good candidates, and there are too many for any one to achieve a "that's the one" from the public yet.
4
@Pono
Trump is even more awful anytime he talks, but he knows how to invoke a Pavlovian response to the grievances of his supporters.
3
@Pono The debate turned into the showdown that it was because media has been saturating us with anti-Sanders messaging for months and declared February 25th "do or die". I'm a Sanders supporter but can say something positive about each of the candidates. If Bernie wins, great. If he loses fair and square, we move on. If he loses because of manipulations designed to override voter mandate, it is not going to be pretty.
1
vote blue no matter who is a flawed notion.
not every Democratic candidate can win and one of them is an October surprise away from taking us off the cliff.
Coat tails are of paramount importance.
4
I supported Sanders 4 years ago, but when Hilary got the nomination, I just couldn't fathom her as President, so crossed party lines and voted for Trump with the personal justification that things needed to get worse in America before they get better. I figured Trump would bring down the house, and then the country would be ready for Bernie.
Trump surprise me. He put long-ago needed sanctions on China. He stepped up and took a bold step in fully supporting Netanyahu, Israel as the Jewish state it is and was intended to be, and moved the Amreican embassy to Jerusalem. Go Trump.
Then, true to Trump form, we learned of the sex scandals (Stormy Daniels et al), pardoning cronies, withholding funds to Ukraine until they gave info on the Bidens, increased domestic terrorist/extremist attacks against people of color and Jews... Yup, things got worse. So it seems Bernie's time had finally arrived.
Yet, Bernie has taken millions from Muslim factions and supporters, called Netanyahu a racist, has an American- Muslim for a campaign manager, will raise our taxes to cover, albeit needed, social programs like free or reduced college tuition, universal health care, has changed his stance on gun-control policies to make gun owernship more restrictive. As much as I want to support Bernie, he's gone too far to the left for this Jewish, gun-owning American. Trump has definitely weakend and made ill our democracy. Sanders will bury it.
5
@Shannon
I think it's the other way around. You should do a little background research on Trump; it's not too late. You will find that lying, cheating and stealing have been his way for nearly his whole life. Couple that with his amoral, narcissistic make-up and, as you can see, we have a recipe for disaster.
Bernie is an upstanding man, his politics notwithstanding, and he has determination.
Remember that the economic good times of a massive tax cut don't last forever, but a president with human values and a decent character is what our country sorely needs.
1
Trump isn't going to run on how bad the Democrats rip each other apart. He is going to run on "Promises kept." Or maybe, "They didn't just try to impeach me. They tried to impeach you." Then there are the seven million new jobs, a steady economy and new trade deals. If there is a peace agreement signed in Afghanistan as planned, he ends a long and costly war. On the other hand, he can point out that Democrats have been part of only one significant piece of legislation, his trade agreement. They did manage to give a few post offices names. Most of the last 3 plus years, the Democrats spent their time trying to get Trump out of the White House and off the 2020 ballot. They just didn't have time for much else. If Sanders is the nominee, Trump can remind everyone that Sanders hasn't originated a single piece legislation passed in all the years as senator. I'm pretty sure there will be clips of some of the rocks they threw at each other but those are just side attraction. Accomplishments and promises kept will be Trumps theme. Not Democrat 's debate nastiness.
4
@Ron - Actually, the Democrats in the House passed around 400 bills which are sitting on McConnell's desk. Some are election security measures. Many are bipartisan bills. McConnell will not let the Senate consider them.
5
@DFR If you send a bill with no expectation it will pass, it is called a wasted effort except hopes someone will say they passed 400 bills McConnell put in the circular file. Maybe if they worked with the Republicans on something both could agree on, they wouldn't put out things only meant for show.
He, he, he, Trump didn't write the bills before his Presidential run either. Didn't stop him from running.
They need John Bercow.
“Orrrddeerrr! Order!”.
Why did they turn the audience loose? It has started to resound like a wrestling match.
4
If Trump wins I will never forgive Sander's voters!
6
That's what they said about us in 2016 too. Guess progressivism should just die then huh?
Should they hold the grudges for the moderates because they lost to Trump in the first place?
1
I’m looking forward to SNL’s skit on last nights debate.
1
They were all losers last night. Not one made the convincing argument why we should vote for them. How could they when all we heard was fighting. They should have been in a wrestling or boxing ring not on a debate stage.
3
@KMW Actually the most sane guy up there was Buttigieg. And that's who I'm voting for.
Seems, the best was Sanders. He held the fort, and didn't fall on low blows as a Russian conspiracy as Buttigieg did, he hold off the how unelectable the moderates are, even although polls show that they are less popular than he. He didn't remind Buttigieg that his experience is way too little, and his programs are very badly defined.
3
If the majority of primary voters select Bernie, then we have to hope that they reflect the larger electorate, that Senate and House races can deliver the Democratic majority we need and that Bernie will accept financial support from Bloomberg fort the down ballot races. It does seem like Trump has all the campaigning ammunition that he needs if Bernie is his opponent.
It is hard to believe that the candidates focused on personal attacks after last week's debacle. The moderators continued to pose personal attack, gotcha questions rather than policy questions. Finally, the candidates apparently did not think about what Mr. Bruni said Trump could use in his anti-Bernie videos. The Democrats ratio process is quite messy this time around, but the will of the hopefully unsuppressed voters prevail.
3
I am a lifelong Democrat, but I don't want to vote for Bernie. His policies don't align with mine, and please spare me the how can I not want healthcare for all refrain. Moderate isn't a bad word. My biggest struggle with contemplating voting or Bernie, if it comes to that and I really hope it doesn't, is that fact that he is another candidate who inspires his followers to troll anyone who doesn't agree with them. Yes, Bernie is more intelligent than Donald, but he inspires the same vitriol. And I do not want another president where you are afraid to speak your concerns about them because of the internet trolls.
12
Considering, the insults that the moderates hurl at Bernie not in Internet but very publicly on TV and newspaper, considering that these insults come not from anonymous fans but ranked Dem, I say, your worries are misplaced.
1
Mitt Romney should now enter the race as a Dem.
2
@Charles Woods
No thanks. Romney and Bloomberg should've run in the Republican primary vs Trump.
@Charles Woods Where is my laughing emjoi?
Bernie as nominee would cost us existing House seats and make ones we could win with a moderate more difficult.
In my Congressional District, which is ready to flip D with a strong woman candidate opposing a light weight R, it will make winning more difficult.
4
@James luce I think the House (and your seat) will stay blue. However the Senate is a different story.
I think the cannibalization speaks more to the Democratic Party, such as it is, than Bernie Sanders.
Why are we to bemoan the candidates being truthful? Of course Bernie would be a disaster and of course he will lose to Trump. He has marginalized and abandoned every moderate republican and most moderate democrats - all of whom are needed to win an election.
Democrats are not “devouring” themselves - they’re finally being honest about the fact that Bernie IS a fringe character that has no chance of being elected.
8
@Jason So dramatic. Democratic voters have expressed a preference. Polling seems to indicate that other voters will also vote for Sanders and that he could win the nomination. The sounds like democracy to me. If democrats get behind him and young and low turn-out voters are inspired to come out to vote we can beat Trump. However disgruntled moderates who refuse to participate could hand it to Trump.
2
There is nothing wrong with our candidates. The debate moderators were incompetent. How was the Coronavirus threat not the subject of the first question. Why were certain members of the audience permitted to boo and cheer. There are far too many candidates still seeking the nomination with no chance of winning. But the debate could have been controlled and orderly if the moderators had stated at the beginning that the candidates mikes would only be turned on during their allotted time. Finally, bring back the League of Women Voters . The BBC could do it too! The commercial networks do a terrible job.
12
It's not Democrats who are devouring themselves. It's Democratic candidates for president, most of whom don't seem to be able to distinguish between responsible critiques of the frontrunner and vitriolic attacks tailor-made for Republican campaign ads.
2
My exact sentiments!
Bernie -- even "socialist" Bernie -- would be far, far, far preferable to Trump. And "socialist" Bernie would do far better against Trump than what the Dems fear. But Bernie after the excoriation by the "mainstream" Dems will be so weakened, that the Trump campaign will have a field day with its ads. Perhaps we Dems deserve another four years of depression.
3
Only two comments. Bernie needs to learn compromise. My way or the highway is a tough way to win elections or get legislation passed. One big reason he has such a poor congressional record. And national polls that show Bernie beating Trump have the same flaw that the 2016 polls did showing a Clinton landslide. Its not the total electoral vote but the Electoral College vote which will likely be determined by 5-6 states.
8
@Jerry in NH Think about that for a moment: we have the recent spectacle--a dramatic 3M-vote difference--of how the popular and Electoral College votes can differ, and still we hear some Dems who seem unable to comprehend that.
3
@Jerry in NH - He won't compromise.
1
This is another chapter in the story of the decline and fall of the Democratic Party, which went from being the party of Labor to the party of Global Corporatism with a side of "woke" nonsense to distract people from its support of Global Corporatism. The DNC is composed of carefully selected individuals who have drunk the Kool Aid, or pretend to very well. They are terrified of Bernie Sanders because he represents what the Democratic Party used to stand for, and they've abandoned all that. He threatens to unmask them. Actually, he has already done so, and thus is the front runner.
11
@Anne Actually, the objection to Sanders is chiefly the realistic fear that he'll do for Trump what Jeremy Corbyn did for Boris Johnson: solidify his power when people discover--surprise!--that there aren't enough college kids in college towns to carry the Electoral College.
7
@Blair You realize that one of Boris Johnson's main election promises was more money for Britain's universal health care? Running in favor of UHC is a vote winner, not a loser.
2
@KM There was also the little matter of Brexit, as well as the general impression of an old leftie past his date.
Sanders did this to himself and our party. He could join the party, but he refuses. He knows his proposals, especially mandated Medicare, are going to be unpopular in the general election and never become law yet he continues to push them with utter lies and nonsense.
He is the most divisive character to run in a Democratic Party primary ever. It's hard to think of another time where one candidate wanted the party's money, name, and brand, but also constantly accused it of being completely corrupt.
10
@OrchardWriting
The Critical Path to stop Bernie and have a brokered convention and winning ticket:
1. Immediately after Saturday's SC results are in, i.e. Sunday, Party luminaries and officeholders must endorse Bloomberg/Klobachar or Biden/Klobachar, stopping Bernie's momentum before Super Tuesday and setting up a brokered convention.
2. Behind the scenes, build support for AK, as a woman, to head the ticket for above reasons.
4. Get Bernie to commit to campaign for the ticket, meaning nominating someone as VP that is acceptable to Bernie and his supporters. Dems will also need a fire-brand liberal VP man to balance the ticket. Not Kamala or Booker or Warren. (a) Sherrod Brown If his Senate seat can be saved? (b) Maybe Biden to "UNITE THE PARTY AND COUNTRY" get out the Black vote and offset AK's weakness there. How to get Bernie to support Biden????
5. Getting Bloomberg to endorse and commit at the Convention at the announcement that he will support the ticket with big $$$$. Not easy but this will be best ticket to win and best ticket if a win is not possible.
The disaster we are witnessing stems from the incompetence of the Democratic National Committee, who must bear full responsibility for:
1. ceding control of the debate format to the networks,
2. perpetuating public-ballot caucuses,
3. abandoning winner-take-all primaries,
4. keeping super delegates to arise zombie-like after the first ballot at the convention,
5. ignoring ranked choice voting.
A party that supports a one-time national popular vote for President should also support a one-time national popular vote for their presidential candidate!
10
“There were episodes when they spoke over one another, not just for a few sentences but for entire paragraphs, while the journalists moderating the debate watched helplessly.” Watched helplessly? How about doing their job? Maybe when Pete insisted on trying to speak over Bernie the entire time Bernie was taking his turn to speak, they could have turned off his mic and taken time from Pete but he got away with that as well as going way past his time limit every time. The only mic that should be on is that of the person speaking. With the same questions that have been asked at every debate, they would have been better off with no moderators. We all would have been better off if the day’s front page of a newspaper were put up on a screen and each candidate was given time to talk about each subject appearing on the front page. In the end Sanders is still the frontrunner. He sufficiently fended off their attacks. The moderators were the biggest losers.
9
All of the candidates acted like belligerent know-it- alls. They reminded me of the kind of rude kids my mother wouldn't let me have over. I'll vote blue, no matter for who, but I hope independents will not conclude that all politicians are blowhards, because then they might vote for Trump, the Blowhard in Chief.
3
Who got hurt?
Not Bernie.
6
@Pia: Nothing has changed Bernie's tone over the past three decades.
@Steve Bolger
You say it like it's a bad thing...
No. You are wrong. This is not about the Democrats. This debate confirmed again that the tv debate itself has outlived its utility!!!! It failed for sorting out the Republicans in 2016. And it’s failing to sort out the Dems in 2020. Sound bites and questioning by TV pundits looking for ratings, conflict and sound bites have failed miserably.
Dem party needs to get rid of debates in 2024.
The town halls with questions from voters are much much more enjoyable and educational. Advertise them. Promote them. And ditch the terrible debates.
15
The party of disarray is barreling toward a political black hole. Historians will look back in amazement at how they nominated a flawed and unelectable candidate for the second time. Trump couldn't be happier. When trump is happy, it's bad for the country.
4
Who is more electable than Bernie? Pete and Amy have yet to demonstrate much support with voters. Biden consistently under-performs polls and come across as weak. Bloomberg is a pompous oligarch. Bernie has a lot of baggage, but also the virtue of actually being liked by a lot of voters, apparently a lot more than the others. It's time for Dems to embrace Bernie and get ready for a helluva general election fight. Bernie can beat Trump, and he needs us all to fight hard for that outcome, rather than wring hands.
5
This election must be about the disgraceful Presidential performance by Donald Trump, not about the Sanders Socialist agenda. Anyone but Sanders (or Warren).
2
Warren knows she doesn't have a chance to win the nomination.
She wants a job in Bernie's cabinet.
She is Bernie's hatchet-woman. "Takedown Bloomberg and you can choose your spot, Elizabeth."
3
The debate last night was an embarrassment. They were all screaming over one another and you could not hear one word. I am sure many people tuned out after this disaster. This does not speak well of the Democratic Party. They behaved like spoiled brats and worse than my three year old niece. They should be ashamed of themselves. I would be.
3
Bloomberg should offer to buy Sanders a nice condo in Boca Raton and send him on his way.
5
@P&L Bloomberg already has a nice house in Bermuda, maybe he should go back there and drop his vanity campaign.
1
One outcome - the moderators have fallback careers - as backup hosts on the Springer show.
1
Ugh, geez, calm down. So much can happen between now and the convention.
2
The candidates mostly demonstrated their flaws in descending order of their candidacy's relevance.
None of them, however, mocked a reporter's disability or the family of a soldier killed overseas or defended Neo-nazis or organized crime or solicited foreign help to get elected.
Only one candidate had much at stake, and that was because he was only in one other debate and bombed it so badly it defied comprehension. He was less bad, but it probably does not matter any more.
Angst about imperfection is eroding our society. Let's make the courageous choice to keep things in perspective.
1
Bloomberg is a ‘Never Trump’ moderate Republican trying to get elected in a Democrat ticket. I’d rather have him spend his millions and billions supporting a Democrat asking nothing in return.
Sanders was never a Democrat and is not a Democrat. He can’t win on a third party ticket so he’s running in the Democrat ticket. Beats me why Democrats have allowed that. His defense of Fidel would only be worse if he defended Kim Jong Un (or his father or grandfather) or Stalin, or worse. They are autocrat murderers. They make Trump look like an innocent baby.
I’m doomed.
1
Does it strike us as unseemly that these Democrats are spitting at each other -- 'I'm a nicer, better do-gooder than you are!' ? It's a little gauche, but it will all be over eventually. As the psychiatric nurse says: "All bleeding eventually stops."
These debates are obviously a relic of a pre-media era. The questions are dumb. The answers are dumb. The whole process is dumb and reflects in no way a person's ability to govern or legislate. They've devolved into a pathetic and desperate quest for a viral sick burn that almost always results in embarrassment. On the plus side, only 15 more!
3
What's devouring the Democrats are useless articles like this by the media. Exactly, why are you so scared of Bernie? Because he wants to do something positive for the middle and working class like universal health care, child care, and education? Come on Mr. Bruni, this column is a complete waste of time.
4
Frank Bruni in February 2016: The Republican Party Devours Itself.
3
For me, they burned themselves up.
Who seemed "Presidential" on the S Carolina stage? I was embarrassed by this adolescent untalent show. The stress of the campaign trail was evident. And is it fair to say that some candidates function like corporations out to only satisfy stockholders - candidates trying to justify their donors investments with more attention to bottom line than on substance?
1
"if Sanders, the current front-runner in the contest for the Democratic presidential nomination, becomes the party’s nominee. President Trump would get four more years."
Why because Sanders proposes things that are widely popular with the whole of the citizenry?
The Wall Street, gang, Bloomberg, Buttigieg, Biden, etc, are in fact underlining how strong a candidate Sanders is against Trump, and how strong Sanders is as a primary candidate.
9
@Yaj
No, Sanders proposes things that are NOT widely popular with the "whole of the citizenry".
A majority of Americans oppose a nationalized health care system that abolishes private insurance.
A majority also oppose student loan forgiveness and "free" college.
A majority of Americans are homeowners with a stake in the character of their neighborhoods and their home values, not renters looking for affordable housing.
A majority of American voters say they will not vote for a socialist.
A majority of Americans currently have a positive view of the economy.
As the article today in The Atlantic points out, data shows that the "nonvoters" Sanders is riding his hopes on are slightly right leaning, not a pool of untapped progressives.
When Vermont and California can't even get progressive statewide policies passed on things like housing and health care, what makes you think that those issues are going to fly at the national level?
Sanders is going to get destroyed in a general election because most Americans are middle class, employed homeowners with private health insurance who want tweaks and improvements to the system, not a complete overturn of the status quo. He won't just lose MI, PA, and WI when the commercials start and the implications of his policies become clear, he will lose states like Minnesota and Connecticut too.
Progressives are living in a coastal fantasy land. You need to spend more time outside of NYC.
7
@A F:
"A majority of Americans oppose a nationalized health care system that abolishes private insurance."
Sanders is not proposing nationalized health care.
Private insurers are deeply unpopular with a majority of the citizenry.
Sanders is proposing Canadian style Medicare--the name in Canada--with dental.
"A majority of American voters say they will not vote for a socialist."
Sanders is a democratic socialist who DOES NOT advocate the public ownership of the means of production.
"A majority of Americans are homeowners with a stake in the character of their neighborhoods and their home values, not renters looking for affordable housing. "
This borders on racism, to be expected.
The Iraq invasion supporting Atlantic is not a credible source regards Sanders.
The proposed Vermont system was never single payer medical. Typical for your ilk, you're uninformed on the subject. Not sure why you bring up CA.
"Sanders is going to get destroyed in a general election because most Americans are middle class, employed homeowners with private health insurance who want tweaks and improvements to the system.."
That just says "I have no idea why Trump beat Hillary". And HRC nearly lost MN.
"He won't just lose MI, PA, and WI when the commercials start and the implications of his policies become clear, he will lose states like Minnesota and Connecticut too."
Sanders would win all of those states. Largely because of his policies. He may win Texas too.
1
I think anyone with an ounce of sympathy with Sanders was sickened by Buttigieg's performance. He was rude, condescending, and wears his ageism on his sleeve. It exposes his novice political status. Don't bring a gun to a fight if the bullets are going to bounce back at you. He's toast this round, although I am sure we will hear from him in the future, unfortunately, probably for the rest of my life.
6
@Dave I thought Sanders was the one who was rude.
5
Dear Frank Bruni:
Enough of your doomsaying. The sky is not falling.
10
Why do the Times' opinion columnists continually design Trump's campaign ads for him?
6
There are many indices of the corruption of the American electoral process. One little commented on is that candidate debates are carried out on TV platforms of for-profit corporations. And consequently, the "debates" as managed as cheap gladiatorial contests. It's time to shout "STOP."
3
Sanders has a quality that none of the other candidate have - and which both Trump and Obama before him also had - authenticity. That goes a long way with voters, who are less ideological than the punditry likes to think.
As for the Democratic freakout - after Super Tuesday, the moderates would be smart to demand that everyone but the person atop the moderate lane drop out. I imagine that person will be Biden. Buttegieg it seems is losing steam, and Klobuchar, despite being the centrist press's darling, is at this point engaged in a vanity campaign. Same with Bloomberg, whom I predict will win zero states on Super Tuesday. If you moderate folks want to give Sanders a run for his money, you seriously need to cull the herd.
5
@Vin: The Republican are betting their bottom dollar on Bernie.
2
@Steve Bolger It's true. Their research showed that 97% of Democrats don't understand the Electoral College. As we see here.
2
@Steve Bolger Sure. And the Democrats were ecstatic that Hillary was running against Trump four years ago, and we see how that turned out.
I'm not going to claim that Bernie is gonna win, but basing electability on conventional wisdom hasn't worked out so well recently.
2
Over dinner recently a Trump supporter asked me which Democrat I prefer and who can beat the incumbent. My answer was the same for both questions: Michelle Obama.
This article captures the absurdity of the candidates who appear to talk to each other only during these events. Bernie would follow Dukakis and McGovern in defeat. None will garner the 1,991 delegates to secure the nomination.
As delegates are released after a few pointless rounds, the party could nominate Michelle. Julio Castro would bring much to a winning ticket.
Please rise to the occasion, Michelle. Rescue us from Trump and Putin and McConnell. Please.
2
There is a simple solution to the Sanders "electability" problem. Elect him.
Sanders is winning because he speaks to and for the 99%. Establishment Democrats claim to as well, but the inconvenient truth is that for the last 30 years, they have stood by idly or actively promoted policies (hello, repeal of Glass-Steagall) that have dimmed the prospects for working people.
Liberal elites pay lip service to the fight for the middle class, but do little to stem the power of Wall St. and the military/industrial complex -- which have left average Americans with few prospects beyond hourly work at Target or becoming targets for IEDs.
The jig is up. Working people like Sanders because he is actually is devoted to helping them. Are you? If so, stop trying to nullify their pro-Bernie votes with flimsy smokescreens like "electability" and join the effort to make progressive change.
12
@CH: Tinkering with interest rates to affect employment rates made Glass Steagall untenable. The "dual mandate" to the Fed was an abrogation of Congressional fiscal policy responsibility motivated by its own incompetence.
Bernie is so out of touch that he hasn't got a clue what his proposed stock transfer tax will do to the high speed trading between multiple stock exchanges that has replaced market-makers in individual stocks to maintain liquidity in stocks.
3
@CH
There is no "99%" and "1%"
There is a 65% and a 35%.
The "65%" is roughly (give or take a few points) the percentage of Americans who own homes, have private employer sponsored health insurance, own stock, have retirement savings, lack any college debt, won't vote for a socialist, and are optimistic about the current economy.
The "35%" is those who rent, have debt, lack savings and possibly lack good health insurance, and would vote for a socialist.
Yet it is the interests of the "65%" that drives American politics because... they make up 65%.
Every nationally winning candidate or party ever has understood this.
3
@A F Just because the home ownership rate is over 60%, it does not mean that a high percentage of these people also have these other benefits you are mentioning. To lump them all together is blatantly dismissive of any other statistic regarding their situations.
Bernie's politics don't bother or scare me, I just am not impressed with him as a candidate. My vote, my choice. And my vote's for Buttigieg.
4
I'm very nervous about Bernie as the nominee. But wow, look at comments sections like this one. Thousands of likes for the pro-Bernie posts, while posts by concerned "moderates" go mostly unnoticed. I know what you're thinking, Trump fans and Russian agents are out in force campaigning online on Bernie's behalf. But I don't think that's the whole story. Bloomberg can easily afford a cyber-army of his own, and I have no doubt that he's employing one. But these online false flag operations pale in comparison to organically grown fandom. Not all of NYT's readers are socialists or bleeding-heart liberals. Is it possible that the media is once again grossly misrepresenting a presidential candidate's supporters? Could it be possible that moderates and even some conservatives find genuine appeal in Bernie's message, which veers away from social and cultural liberalism and "PC" convention in favor of a purely economic bread-table focus? For mainstream voters who tire of Trump's hackneyed culture warrior stance, Bernie just might have genuine appeal and might not seem as dangerously left-wing as the media makes him out to be.
147
@Frank:
"I'm very nervous about Bernie as the nominee. "
Why? Because you favor Trump winning in Nov. 2020, so wish to nominate a corporatist Democrat?
How'd that work out in 2016?
7
@Frank If only we could see the zip codes of those comments. Running up the vote in progressive strongholds won't matter. Just ask President 3M+ votes Hillary.
14
@Blair Yes, the experience of Hillary Clinton is why we should be nominating a bold progressive, not a corporate sellout with no vision or ideas.
8
If we look at the Republican primary experience of 2016, it too was a mess. And out of the maelstrom rose the worse candidate who went on to win. The Democratic Convention will determine whether Democrats can clearly and unambiguously declare to the entire country why whoever Democrats select is a far better choice than the current president, for them personally and for the country.
The Democrat's platform should choose to unite the country, restore civility and normalcy to government operations, heal wounds domestically and with allies abroad, and concentrate on those issues with the broadest appeal such as healthcare, cost of medication, trade, environment, wages, and taxes, without riling the stock market.
The question is who do you trust to stick to a conciliatory, bi-partisan, inclusive tone, when running against an unruly, uncivil, unhinged president? Who will have the best chance to lure dissatisfied Republicans, Independents and undecided Democrats who voted for Trump in 2016? Which Democrat will renounce foolish pronouncements such as decriminalizing illegal border entry. That's like having red lights with no penalty for going through them. At the first debate, I believe all Democrats supported that, thus bringing on Republican claims, 'Dems want open borders!' and it sounded foolish for Dems to say, 'no that's not what I want' when that's exactly what the effect would be.
1
Despite Mr. Bruni's frequent bouts of democratic apoplexy I think the Democrats should forge on. What is it about "nasty" debates that is so troubling when it is taking place within a political party that is in need of debate, nasty or otherwise. At least the Democrats have the common sense to debate. After the authoritarian turn of the Republican Party they no longer have that option. Don't be surprised that not one interesting idea has emerged from that party in a very long time. What's another option? The Democrat Party's Ancient Regime (Mr. Obama) is now a lifestyle brand (sorry, Mr. Biden). If you need to be anesthetized simply read Mr. Obama's Twitter account and with the Obama family you may 'reach for the stars.' I can't make that stuff up! If that drivel is the baseline of a rejuvenated Democratic politics I'm all for Bernie bashing billionaires and Bloomberg bashing people who bash billionaires. Everyone knows that the campaign against Mr. Trump is going to be a brawl. Recall the debate episode with Ms. Clinton during which he circled behind her as if stalking her? I think these Democratic Party debates are exactly the right kind of preparation.
2
I loved the cacophony of last night’s debates, as should Bernie’s supposed radicals. Anarchy! But amongst some of the brightest and most skilled politicians and policy makers our country offers. Such a contrast to what the GOP is able to serve, or rather, scrounge up. I’ll bet Old Honest Abe Lincoln would have felt it was business as usual. I mean, back then people stood up and shouted off of tree stumps! Democracy.
2
The Democrat Party should just start getting ready for 2024, because after a Trump re-election and losing the House in 2020 with their Sanders ticket, they will need to reconnect with Americans in a profoundly important way. This one's gonna leave a mark!
7
@JMR
If Sanders is the Democratic nominee, Trump will be reelected and the Democrats stand a good chance of losing a lot of down ballot elections. The Democrats, one of which I count myself, can pack their bags and go home.
Trump will get to appoint at least two more Supreme Court Justices and possibly more. The liberal progressive dream will die a painful death and can take several generations before it can be reborn.
The Supreme Court interprets the Constitution, which is intentionally vague. Trumps court, his rules. Things can only get worse and there will be no way to stop him.
That is what should be foremost in every American's mind.
3
Well, it is simply TRUE that more democrats vote for non-Bernie than for Bernie. The debates show that even among democratic party leaders, they think the others are all bad actors. I'm left with the impression they are all bad people, all with bad policies. The only good impression is when they talk about themselves, typical egotism with blinders that others don't like them.
Let me from the outset say that I fervently support the Democratic Party. That said, here is my question: to what extent, if any, is it useful to have another Democratic debate just a week after the previous one? To me, doing so only serves three purposes: to ensure that each major network gets to host one, to give the candidate who was knocked about in the previous debate the opportunity to fight his/her way back into the election process, and, most important and sadly, to give DJT & Co. more ammunition against his future opponent (the same can be said, btw, for those town halls that CNN in particular is so fond of hosting). In neither case, i.e., debate or town hall, do we learn anything new about the candidates or their platform. The exception was last week's debate, but that was solely because Mayor Bloomberg was sort of the "new kid" on the debate stage. I believe that one debate every four to six week would be quite sufficient, thank you very much.
2
Oh for pity's sake. Yes, it was a wild night, but so what? Nothing changed, none of us learned anything, and Donald Trump will tell outrageous lies about the nominee no matter who they are. Just about par for the course. The other thing that's hasn't changed is this writer's willingness to dash off a quick column which does little more than reiterate what was already said, then tack on his existing opinion -- the same one we've heard over and over again for months. Ho hum.
2
What will it take to get rid of this tired debate format?
The ridiculous game show set, the raucous football stadium audience, the "so and so said this about you, what do you say to that?" questions.
Put the candidates around a table in an ordinary room, no audience, no background scrolling "Democratic Debate." (Who is that for anyway - those who have accidentally wandered into the room?)
Two or three moderators who ask insightful questions, with enough time for the candidates to provide in depth answers that go beyond the same platitudes we've already heard.
3
Forty years in politics and the GOP smear machine has barely laid a finger on Mr. Sanders. Hillary was in the public eye for less time than that, and the toxic sludge they dumped on her would fill a hundred Superfund sites. They saw her as a threat; him, not so much.
But when he becomes the nominee, with an exuberant base of supporters and policies that most Americans repeatedly tell pollsters they like?
By the time they are through with him, he’ll poll lower than the coronavirus.
4
I'm not saying Bernie goes home every night and cuddles with his dog-eared yellowed copies of "Soviet Life" but haven't most all of us of a certain age and background encountered multiple Bernies in college, grad school, gin mills, wheresoever and eventually outgrown them, no longer willing or able to humor them? In real life I steer clear of such people. So in this regard I think Bernie and Trump are quite similar: in person they'd be insufferable.
7
Bernie Sanders seems to have written off Florida. Expressing admiration for Fidel Castro when a large number of Miami residents lost family members, property and a homeland to the dictator. Plus paying in higher taxes to support Medicare for all is a net loss for the ant Florida seniors who already have Medicare and not the higher taxes.
3
Why we are discussing 20th century issues?
As if either capitalism or Communism win the race like. since when.
I was born in 1969, I lived quite a lot time in cold war era, after that transition period after that 2000's .
MY previous country ( I am a naturalized citizen) is the textbook example of American side of the story during Cold war, so it was capitalist and still it is very conservative capitalist.
I have been living in USA since 2000 and I can say US is conservative capitalist country.
However I am also very knowledgeable to eastern block and USSR.
In short Neither Capitalism nor Communism was bring a real prosperity, good life to people, In fact we lived up and downs, stability in Capitalist and communist countries has always been a dream never realized.
Today when I see a true success only in 4-5 nations Scandinavians and Japan. They are neither puritanical capitalist nor socialist or communist.
They try to take best of all things available, rest stick their guns and their feeble minded ideologies.
We are here,
Flint Michigan or Detroit Michigan or Oakland California or Camden new jersey or Mississippi, Alabama etc is not shining examples of Capitalism.
Russia, Ukraine, North Korea, Cuba or Venezuela is not shining examples of Communism.
I am really fed up this old 19th- 20th century ideologies.
1
Am I nuts or is the Democratic talent pool as weak as the Republican talent pool of 2016? I find none of the candidates inspiring. Given Trump's abysmal performance as president a ham sandwich should be able to defeat him but I fear that no matter who captures the Democratic nomination, defeating Trump will be dubious at best. I've heard many persons talk about Oprah, and let's not dismiss that out of hand. If a TV huckster like Trump can win, an intelligent, highly successful woman of color would be a huge upgrade.
What was that about Bernie Sanders voters being the most aggressive?
I think that was soundly laid to rest on Tuesday night.
Time for Klobuchar, Buttigieg, Steyer, and yes, Bloomberg, to drop out.
Biden was the centrists only hope from the beginning. Now it’s too late.
1
How many one-issue voters (abortion, immigration, race, guns, "religion," etc.) held their noses and voted for Trump because he'd back their burning passion? A lot.
How many, whose issue is ousting Trump, will look past flaws in any Democratic candidate to achieve their goal? That's the key question. In 2016, a lot didn't and we got the worst president in history.
"Vote blue, no matter who" should be the Democrats' motto.
2
Imagine all the democratic candidates walking off the debate
scene en mass after the first ten minutes of the degrading spectacle and format put on by CBS. It would be the greatest
demonstration of solidarity ever...but the DNC knows no
strategy. How pitiful, depressing, and sad.
1
Some have suggested that these debates should not be conducted in front of an audience.
The audience influences everyone else's perception of how the debate went. Each candidate gets the same number of tickets but some, like Bloomberg, brought very vociferous supporters. This because obvious when they booed loudly at Senator Sanders who appeared flustered by the yelling. His pathetic response was "Oh, really?!"
A debate without an audience might seem strange to the candidates, but it might be the most objective atmosphere in which to conduct a serious debate.
1
“Even Democrats don’t trust Bernie Sanders. Why should you?”
Frank, why you would think this is a bad message for Dems to spread is anyone's guess.
The fact is, Bernie is no Democrat and the other candidates realize that all too well. I'll never understand why the DNC let him enter the Dem Primary. He so much as admitted in the last debate that the DNC Primary rules don't apply to him.
We need to let the Republicans know that the majority of the Dem Party do not accept Bernie's socialist agenda or else we run the risk of losing the House, let alone the Senate and the WH.
3
Why not policy one-one with Bill Moyers with all the candidates instead of these debates? I can see 45 on his way from Hindustan (without Muslims, it is not Incredible India anymore) relishing November after watching the car crash last night and knowing he'll on cruise control to January 20, 2021.
Is that the way to win in November?
"Sanders" was uttered more frequently than "Trump"
My fundamental problem with this process is that Sanders isn't even a Democrat. If the party can't control who gets to use their label, then what the heck? On substance, Sanders is a trainwreck, oblivious, the perfect candidate for some other country's presidential election. Bloomberg was impressive in his ability to adapt to a venue that is obviously uncomfortable for him (he's not a real, potential, or aspiring Reality TV star). Buttigieg continues to be the standout candidate for his combination of adult demeanor, intellect and grasp of the issues, and the way he presents an inspirational outlook for America. Buttigieg best embodies the essence of President Obama. Now tell me that's not what this nation needs after four years of Trump, eh?
4
Frank, you have got to calm down.
Bernie, Warren, all of them, support progressive policies and those polices are POPULAR!
You know what's unpopular? - Republican policies on taxes, public education, income support for families and working people, abortion, etc. What else is unpopular? Trump himself.
Deep breaths, dude.
1
Frank you are one of my favorites. However I was just a bit annoyed that you gave credence to the lie, by bringing it up, that Bernie spent his honeymoon in Russia. He and Jane didn't
"Bloomberg, so awful when he made his debate debut last week, answered a question about public health and then a subsequent one about the legalization of marijuana in a nuanced, knowledgeable fashion, demonstrating that Trump’s problem isn’t that he’s a plutocrat. It’s that he’s an ignorant one."
I didn't hear him give a nuanced and knowledgeable answer on marijuana. It was more stall tactics and half truths. He talked about protecting young teenagers. No one is trying to legalize it for anybody under 21! If you didn't need to see the science to lock people up over it, you don't need to see the science to legalize it either.
Please, not Bloomberg....
1
Mr. Bruni, I respect you and generally agree with you but in this matter I have lost hope that we can find our way through this mess. I received an email from the DNC today about what I thought about last night and who was I enthused about. Really? I responded that it was an embarrassing carnage, that I have no enthusiasm for any one of the candidates, or for Tom Perez, or for the DNC itself, that we have guaranteed a second term to Mafia Don, and that he is laughing all the way to his second term as we make a laughing stock of ourselves. The DNC has not responded to my email.
3
@Gary Avigne Tom Perez had the most unpopular incumbent in recent history to work against, and this is the best he could muster.
My problem with Sanders is that he is not really a Democrat and he comes across as a cranky old man. I like some of his ideas but not all and I’m worried that if he gets elected and is unable to get his pie-in-the-sky legislation passed, young people will be disappointed and won’t participate fully in future elections. I really would like to see Biden, Mayor Pete or Amy Klobuchar, gain some traction. I think they’re the only hope Democrats have of winning over moderates and the Never Trumpers of the Republican party. We must defeat the aspiring dictator in the White House and save our democracy.
5
@PCB Sanders' big promises are Trump's version of the wall. Someone else will pay for it. Somehow.
As for the youngs, Dems have been chasing the 18-24 vote for 50 years. It. Never. Materializes.
I think the takeaway from the past two debates is that the news channels are failing at their civc responsibility when they do not structure and moderate these debates to allow for richer policy discussions.
Asking candidates different questions and tolerating cross-talk from the very beginning of these debates is a problem. Some moderators, like Chuck Todd, have encouraged sensationalism and fighting among candidates during these debates instead of asking thoughtful questions.
An example of an alternative approach would be having debate hosts insist on each candidate answering the same policy question with moderators asking a follow-up question based on the candidate's answer.
Candidates can wait their turn and moderators could simply turn mics on an off to avoid interruptions and prevent candidates from monopolizing the debates. Interrupting other candidates or controlling the flow of discussion by raising their hands rather than letting moderators direct the interactions in the initial phases of debates should be unacceptable. It contributes to this perception of chaos.
The debate hosts and their moderators are failing at their jobs when they tolerate this. The second half of the debates could allow for more interaction among candidates.
... or we could always just call in referees and continue to have WWE-style free-for-alls.
5
Lately, because of Sanders' jump to the front, the Press and Pundits have been saying the candidates need to go after Sanders, that we cannot afford to have Sanders win the nomination.
Now that the candidates did indeed "go after" Sanders they are getting roundly criticized for doing so.
I don't get it. The media wants it both ways, but mainly they seem to want excitement any way they can get it - it sells.
3
What does "moderate" Democrat even mean? There are establishment Democrats that this country rejected four years ago and there are progressive democrats who want to move this country forward.
Maybe those Representatives in swing districts should embrace the progressive title and demonstrate how we can actually improve this country for everyone.
On the issue of the pending pandemic (maybe not this one, but maybe the next) universal healthcare is the best protection we have.
1
@chris OK, I'll take a swing. "Moderate Democrat" means a winner who can take a swing district, as was done two years ago in the midterms. Democrats currently control the United States House of Representatives not because of mouthy progressives--often of the New York variety--but because of moderates. Fun fact: none of those victorious moderates wants anything to do with Sanders now. That's a clue. You can't "improve the country for everyone" if you're not in power.
I watched the debate to see the candidates attack Sanders. One issue which is in part defining Sanders' candidacy is the Medicare For All Proposal. The group of physicians known as the Physician for a National Health Program has endorsed and promoted a single payer plan for many years. This plan among other things eliminates the insurance industry as a player it. See:
"We propose to replace the ACA with a publicly financed National Health Program (NHP) that would fully cover medical care for all Americans, while lowering costs by eliminating the profit-driven private insurance industry with its massive overhead. Hospitals, nursing homes, and other provider facilities would be nonprofit, and paid global operating budgets rather than fees for each service. Physicians could opt to be paid on a fee-for-service basis, but with fees adjusted to better reward primary care providers, or by salaries in facilities paid by global budgets. The initial increase in government costs would be offset by savings in premiums and out-of-pocket costs, and the rate of medical inflation would slow, freeing up resources for unmet medical and public health needs."
This has been central to my thinking about single payer heath programs. Unlike programs in Europe and Scandinavia where private health insurance is an option, in the PNHP program it is not.
It is essential when all is over after super Tuesday, everyone must get behind a candidate, probably Bernie.
1
Stop worrying about putting up a progressive candidate - Republicans nominate idealogues at all levels and they're elected. Stop worrying about appealing to Trump supporters. They're never giving up on him. Stop worrying about electability and defeating Trump.
Focus on putting up the best candidate. Fear Bernie? Then find out why people keep voting for him and embrace it.
2
@Martin B Ah, the false symmetry argument of Republicans do it all the time. Yes, and they do it under an advantageous Electoral College that is more conservative than the country as a whole. While all the Sadersnistas are patting themselves on the back for his wonderful vision, back in reality it was actually _moderates in swing districts_ that re-captured the House in 2018. None of those winners is touching Sanders now. That's exactly how it works. Running up the vote in Brooklyn or San Francisco or Austin is pointless.
2
I don’t understand the collective freak out. Bernie is not anti-democracy. He does not have connections with gangsters across the world. He doesn’t throw the red meat of racism and sexism to his base. He doesn’t have a long history of harassment and assault. If anything, he is the opposite of these things. I see no evidence that he is “another Trump.”
Anand Giridharadas had a particularly good segment on AM Joy last weekend about what is happening: namely, that the neoliberals in the Democratic establishment, who have made so much money and had so much power under the current near-oligarchic system, are acting like aristocrats in a dying aristocracy. The data doesn’t back them up. Poll after poll after poll shows Sanders thumping Trump nationally, because he is speaking to boiling frustrations of everyday people. If we don’t address those frustrations and instead produce a moderate, small-fixes approach, we are likely looking at another Trump, smarter and more dangerous, or a revolution resembling that in Chile, further down the road. As a very, very reliable Democratic millennial voter (I vote in primaries, caucuses for Congressional candidates, municipals, midterms, presidential elections, everything), I will be casting my vote for very necessary change, not a return to the Obama era.
5
@Ashleigh Adams Poll after poll showed Hillary beating Trump nationally, too, and in fact she did. How is President Clinton working out?
@Blair so you suggest someone that ISN’T leading in the polls? Someone who is leading by far less? Please explain how that is better than someone who is winning most. I’m all ears!
1
@Ashleigh Adams The cumulative moderate vote reflects a moderate majority in the electorate. Seizing a primary nomination with a _plurality_ doesn't win a general with that composition.
Agree wholeheartedly. If Sanders is the nominee (he or Warren would be my choice in terms of policy if not necessarily in terms of beat-trumpablity).
But if the GOP makes such a video collage of the other candidates bashing Sanders, and even if they don’t do so, the Dems can make a much better video collage of GOP senators and such bashing trump (featuring Lindsey Graham prominently). Not so much impact since no GOPer has had the spine to confront trump recently, but a powerful indication of what the GOP really thinks of trump nonetheless.
2
I agree. Now that candidates are desperate for support before Super Tuesday, they look like it. It's not about the country anymore; it's about them.
I formerly favored Elizabeth Warren (full disclosure: I am a feminist of a certain age). But her reprised wild-eyed leap upon Bloomberg was very disconcerting. Say what you want about him, disagree with any of his position, but he is undeniably a good person. The story about suggesting that someone have an abortion was just unbelievable. (Sorry, and I say this as someone who was discriminated against after I had my baby in my company by a FEMALE president).
I don't know that I can support Warren anymore. Her approach to Bloomberg reeked of class hatred against someone who came from nowhere and gives away the great bulk of his money. It's personal and over the top.
So, I may embrace Klobuchar. Don't know. But I don't like the new desperate look of the candidates and agree that it is a boon for Trump, a true cancer on this country.
9
@BG I feel the same way about Warren. I have been considering her for the past month or so as a saner alternative to Bernie, but she has really disappointed me with her behavior during the last 2 debates.
I will probably go with Bloomberg or Pete now. They both seem smart, capable and infinitely more presidential.
5
“Undeniably a good person”????!!?!?? Are all his accusers lying?? What a bizarre defense of a serial harasser from an alleged “feminist”. Maybe it’s a generational thing, but depressing nonetheless.
This debate left me even more convinced that Bloomberg is the best hope to beat Trump, and will do the most to bring people together in Washington. Where let's face it, most of the decisions get made. And enact the policies that are beneficial to most people.
Bernie and Trump will always have their hard core supporters, but in the states that are in play against an incumbent who is perceived to have a strong economy, may be hated but is not seen as weak, Bloomberg is best positioned. And get under Trump's skin like no other.
6
But Bloomie doesn't have hard-core supporters, all what he is hoping on loyalty of Dems to the Party's nominee and some possible Rep 'traitors' . It is very thin justification. And considering that Reps even 'traitors' prefer vote for Reps a split ticket is a real possibility. Of course, it is not much worry for Bloomie because he never plans to do anything to upset Reps in the first place. So, it will be perfect Rep Government with Dem Bloomie at the head.
1
The panic and fear mongering about Sanders within the party is driven by older voters.
I am 56 and I have watched cycle after cycle in which the Democratic candidates vie to water down positions for fear of being perceived as "too" Democratic to be viable. This is a different world. Young people are not scared by words like "socialism" or "liberal." Young people are scared by climate change and a global oligarchy. We owe them more -- this is no time for older Democrats to wage war. We need to stand up to Trump, we need to make a clarion call. We do not need fear mongering.
9
@Martha Reis and make sure they vote in your state please
@MEH
With all due respect, we have enjoyed some of the highest voter participation rates in the country.
After last night’s debate, President Trump looks pretty good. There was so much infighting and bickering that it was a very poor debate. It was hard to tolerate this and no one was very impressive. They should apologize to the American people for this temper tantrum display.
The media devours Bloomberg bribe money and attacks Sanders.
You realize you can vote Sanders out of office? That even if policies fail he respects democracy and will support human rights.
You moderates say he won’t be able to do anything. Isn’t that a win win? You get Trump out, you win and progressives get their guy that does nothing like you want.
I don’t understand the fear of Sanders. There are a millions checks and balances against him and none against republicans.
Time to step up instead of cowering in the corner and adding to the worlds problems.
5
I propose that all future televised political debates involving three or more candidates, take a cue from game shows, and install signaling ("lockout") devices in the podiums, and state at the outset that all rebuttals will only be recognized, when a candidate "buzzes in," and the moderator acknowledges them by name.
...And, bringing in, say, Pat Sajak as an additional moderator might not be a bad idea, either.
1
I’ve never felt the Bern! Not in 2016 and never in 2020. Bloomberg is the winner on the stage while Warren and Sanders are the detractors and insulters.
7
The big problem with all these debates are the moderators who seem to have only the most simplistic idea of what issues are about. It would be better to have the seven candidates sit around a large table and talk with each other like grownups about what their concerns and remedies are for our country.
4
When "moderates" say that Sanders is going to be a disaster because he can't be elected we need to understand the subtext of what is being said. There are two messages that come through.
The first relates to voting. What moderates are positing is that they and others like them may not vote for Sanders if one of their preferred nominees is not elected. The left will be mobilized and will come out in higher numbers than usual. If there is a loss of support for Sanders or down ballot Democrats, it will be because "moderates" stay home. This replicates what these same moderates claim "liberals" did when Sanders lost in 2016. The hypocrisy is incredible.
The second point that isn't being said is that it is primarily white middle class people who are threatened by Sanders. It those people don't vote for Sanders despite not liking Trump, what they are effectively demonstrating is that while they recognize Trump's racism, sexism, homophobia, and xenophobia, the potential (moderate) material or status loss they might personally feel if Sanders is elected is more important to them than the real harm currently being done to others by Trump.
Those are not good points to be making.
6
I worked, donated, knocked on doors in 2018 to help flip my perennial red district blue. I can tell you with a very high degree of certainty, with Sanders at the top of the ticket this district will flip back to red. I assume many of the 40 house seats that flipped would be in the same boat. Not because I - a moderate Democrat - won’t vote for Sanders, but those moderate republicans who switched to Dems will switch back.
2
@Merlot: Sanders will leave the Democratic Party in ruins.
2
@Steve Bolger If the Democrats are ruined by Sanders because he calls for policies that would benefit much of America while the Republican party can survive Trump, then the Democratic party does not deserve to survive.
The only thing I feel and hear every time Bernie talks years of constant future chaos, and protests when his supporters realize (if he wins), that they are not going to get most of what he's promising.
I don't want the kind of chaotic socialism that Bernie's flogging. He has yet to speak to us about how he plans on calming the American electorate and the concerns of millions of people who don't necessarily buy what he's selling.
7
And how the moderates calmed the electorate when they realised that the moderates could not deliver the needed relief to them? The moderates allowed Trump to be elected and lost the Congress to Reps.
1
@yulia Deflection is not an argument.
Looks like a brokered Convention this Summer. It will be interesting to see how the coalitions form to finally give someone the majority needed to be the Democratic Nominee. Probably Sanders vs others. Very unpredictable. Ultimately, turnout in November will determine result. And whoever is best coalition-builder at he Convention will prevail. All have strengths and weaknesses. Bernie has most passionate followers, Warren has broadest reach across Dems, Bloomberg has history of leadership,Biden has history of political results. Time will tell us where majority of Dem voters stand. I trust Democrats can ultimately rally behind the winning Candidate and bring integrity and fairness back to the White House.
2
I thought this was the best and most entertaining debate we've had so far.
All the dirt needs to come out now. Because whatever it is, Trump will use it to the max, so let everyone who's running learn to respond to the criticism now. Before Trump bashes them for it later.
And voters needed to know all of the negatives of Bloomberg, so thanks to Sen Warren for that. She's exposing all his faults. Bloomberg will either find a way to deal with the allegations and facts or he'll lose the primary contests.
And Bernie needed to be knocked off his cloud. Yes I agree with nearly everything Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders have to say (though I prefer Mayor Pete's Medicare for All Who Want It), but I'm glad Bernie's past support of aspects of communist and socialist regimes is being dealt with in the sunlight right now. Trump will have a field day with it and Democratic voters must see what's coming before they continue to vote for Bernie. They must also see whether Bernie can handle it. IMO, so far he's not handling it well. Bernie is doubling down on his past mistakes. Yes, I agree that a literacy program and the establishment of the BEST primary care health deliver system in the world was a positive achievement of Fidel Castro. But politically Bernie MUST step away or he'll lose to Trump.
4
@NY Times Fan: Bernie is too dumb even to point out that affordable taxation of all to fund projects of purported benefit to the public at large is "socialism", in a nutshell.
There debates are useless. They have become theater at its worst and the moderators are partly responsible for instigating or at least failing to contain the ruckus.
Then, following the debate, do we hear get to hear about the different policy platforms that each candidate stands on. No. We hear endless nonsense about who tore into who and Warren vs Sanders and Warren vs Bloomberg ad nauseum.
They did the same thing with the Republican debates in 2016 to the detriment of every candidate except Trump.
The Democrats are embarrassing themselves.
I am a lifelong Dem who would vote for Mayor Pete in a heartbeat.
Sanders would be a disaster for the party and the progressive movement.
If Sanders wins the nomination, we could kiss goodbye the chances of winning the White House and the Senate and possibly loose Congress again.
Do the math. If 50% of the Democrtas support Sanders, that translates to about 13% of the electorate. He will never win over the majority of the independents or any moderate Republicans.
We are in big trouble and Trump is enjoying every moment.
9
The debate moderators need a switch which would allow them to turn off a candidate's microphone. Elizabeth Warren is the worse about thinking she can take over the discussion when a question is asked of another candidate.
10
If the 1325 readers who endorsed the observation that the Republican Establishment is terrified of Sanders truly believe that, they ought to remember the only public prayer Trump uttered during his primary campaign: "Oh please God, please please please give me crazy Bernie." And if you truly believe that Putin favors a second Trump term, then ask yourself why Russian interventions taking place are on behalf of Bernie.
6
@Quiet Waiting
Both Trump and Putin believe if Bernie is nominated it is an easy win for both of them that's why.
Trump pulling out of Syria benefited Putin.
1
What is sad is how Sanders is being attacked by his fellow Demorats simply for wanting to make healthcare and education accessible and affordable to all, to relieve a great deal of pain and suffering for the many. The wealthy and well-off would barely feel it. That is terribly sad and demonstrates how much the Democratic party has lost its way. Everyone relax and let Bernie bring us back home.
7
@Laura Philips Sanders isn't a Democrat. He's a Socialist. There's a big difference. Might want to brush up on your knowledge of history.
@Mike B. You are blindly hung up on meaningless labels. Officially, he is a hybrid Deomocrat- Socialist. The word "socialism" means different things to different people, depending on how it was implemented in their culture and nation. So invoking labels is meaningless. The world changes and evolves, Mike. No one actually lives within the confines of a pure Democracy (just look at the authoritarian Trump regime), a pure capitalist or socialist regime. Truth is, most countries are an ever-changing mix, adjusted for the needs of the times and the planet. Right now Sanders recipe makes the most sense to me and the future of humanity and the planet. It also makes sense to the younger generation who would like to survive.
1
@Laura Philips Liz can do the same thing minus the chaos, and voters don't see her as suspicious.
1
Lets look at how radical Bernie's plans are against the GOP plans.
GOP plans are basically to reduce taxes on the wealthy and on companies to further stretch the divide between the "haves" and the "have nots". It is a reverse Robin Hood agenda.
This will be paid for by defunding entitlements, like social security and other means tested benefits for ordinary people. That includes attacking social security, withdrawing Obamacare health subsidies for the low paid, and uninsured, etc.
It will be paid for by removing environmental protections that ensure we drink clean water and breathe fresh air.
It will be paid for by following policies of climate change denial.
It will be paid for by allowing the NRA zealots and right wing fundamental christian extremists to dominate our legislature and our judiciary.
It will be paid for by dumbing down our education system.
It will be paid for by dismantling our world leadership in matters of soft power and diplomacy.
It will be paid for by allowing a wholly unsuitable person to dismantle our constitution.
The American government can afford to invest in decent healthcare, decent education, decent retirement benefits and maintain our constitutional protections. It can't afford Trump
10
@mrc: The US dropped out of the real world when Reagan reversed Carter's Metric conversion mandate.
1
'In case you were at all confused, Bernie Sanders is the apocalypse. Or something very close to it.'
Indeed. Come Nov, it seems likely that that will be officially demonstrated.
Heads up though, 2024 is not too far.
1
@ss Don Jr will win in 2024
1
Why can’t the moderators be given a panel of microphone buttons? One mic is on at a time, and when the time limit is up, it turns off, and the next one is not turned on until the moderator decides who goes next. Enough yelling over each other, let’s have a respectful debate where each candidate gets uninterrupted time to speak.
8
@Dave: How about moderators with enough public policy savvy to ask questions about substantive issues rather than provoke food fights?
(Yes, I know, people would just tune out and low ratings would cancel the show.)
4
Surely we have the technology to mute other microphones when a designated person is speaking. Surely, we have the technology to fade out the volume as a speaker goes over their time.
The moderators were unable, or unwilling to be effective, so why not have a sound technician?
13
Bernie should materialize this two presidential race , if he doesn't get Nomination.
It is any more certain, America is not going to be represented by 2 political party.
Trump already buried GOP 6 feet under. Unfortunately centrist GOP lost their own home so they should try to form a new party or if possible get back the party and force Trump group out so those people can form their own party. At the end Brand is a valuable asset .
Democrats must realize they are not for everybody on the left.
If Bernie is a good and wise politician , he convert his advantage to form a far left party which he may never be capture but percentage but he may become a bargaining chip.
If his supporters dissolves after him , all these effort is for nothing.
@SU
Sanders has the overwhelming majority support of the under 45 crowd whom, in reality, largely, would represent the future of the democratic party. One would think, if another, centrist was to receive the nomination, Trump would win another four years. This would no doubt, result in the complete implosion of the democratic party whereby, another party would eventually emerge that would offer a real alternative to republicans not the failed "republican lite safe candidate" approach which has proven since the 1980's to be a disaster.
I’d suggest everyone watch Bloomberg’s TV Ads. They are much more effective in learning what he is about. Warren, Klobachar, Biden, Buttigieg and Steyer should drop out. Let Sanders and Bloomberg make focused presentations of their agendas and give the Democratic voters a clear choice between a Socialist and a Moderate.
7
Bloomberg isn’t a moderate Democrat. He’s a moderate republican.
9
@HPS
So has the American political system become so corrupt and devolved that much that the Presidency is now "up for sale" to the highest bidder?
Bloomberg is an Oligarch, Oligarchs don't believe in effective independent political parties and they don't believe in democracy either.
2
@HPS
Im sorry but that's like saying don't look a real person look at this photoshopped version of a real person.
Everything is more effective when well polished and scripted.
1
Instead of trying to convince me to vote for them, Klobuchar and Buttigeig seem only interested in soiling Sander's image. For all their calls for unity, and civility, they seem to do the most attacking (aside perhaps from Warren on Bloomberg). Given neither of them has a very clear path to the nomination at this point, and you might think they would try to gain voters by appealing to a wider base instead of simply trying to discourage people from voting for the front runner. It's not like anyone currently in Sanders camp is going to be convinced to vote for Amy Klobuchar when she repeats for the 50th time that M4A is expensive. Their current strategy does not try to convince me to vote for them, only that Sanders is potentially just as bad as Trump, a dubious claim at best.
9
Thanks, Frank, you got me again
re: Bernie the Ogre
As a 73 year old heterosexual white male who wasted too much of his youth in redneck bars, I understand why people voted for Agent Orange (thanks to Spike Lee). He speaks in words of one syllable.
But we are in a war of ideas more than of personalities.
Bernie's ideas represent my way of thinking. During the Eisenhower administration, Ike had a tax structure left over from the New Deal. He built the interstate highway system.
Now, after Reagan & the Bushes, we can't even fix the roads, there are holes the size of a basketball in the Ventura freeway, our streets are cluttered with homeless, mental health care is a faded dream, young people have no hope of owning a home, the environment seems beyond repair and recent hurricanes are nothing compared to what's to come.
Bernie speaks for the common people, for us, for the multitudes. He is winning because of his ideas, not his personality, not what other senators think of him -- they are mostly bought and paid for anyway.
Go Bernie! And remember, AOC turns 35 in October 2024.
18
The format of these "debates" is terrible, farcical really, starting with an opening staged as if it's a sports event or circus. The questions are mostly designed to get the candidates to go after each other, rather than express vision and particular policy plans. I guess Americans are judged too simple-minded to listen to serious debate with rules enforced for decorum -- you know, like debating is taught in schools. The judgement is correct I suppose.
8
@kgeographer: Politics is scored by fundraising in the US, which is why donating to the opposing party's weakest candidates in primaries is more effective than support for their own party's candidates.
Russians and Republicans hoping Bernie Sanders wins because Trump will beat him better be careful what they wish for. I remember Liberals who were scared of Ted Cruz and cheered when Trump won the nomination in 2016.
7
@S. Jackson: Bernie has all the "socialism" baggage of McGovern without the war hero status.
3
While Bruni and others mention Sander's problematic comment about Castro's literacy program, they fail to mention his noteworthy "let's be honest for a moment about American foreign policy" remark citing the U.S. role in overthrowing legitimate governments in Guatemala, Iran and Chile. Have we ever heard a U.S. senator say this on a debate stage? A rare and relevant truth-telling moment that no one in the mainstream media even seemed to notice. Back to Cuba and easy red-baiting.
7
"Everything is impossible until it happens." A nice little pithy saying...that is blatantly false. I get the point of inspiring hope when things seem hopeless. But most things that haven't happen...won't. And claiming that hope is enough to make things happen is not a good argument.
I'm okay with Medicare for all. I just do not believe it has to be all or nothing. I'm not an absolutist like Sanders. He wants a revolution, but the county isn't there yet. He claims he can bring lots of new voters in. Where are they? His base is strong...maybe strong enough to win the primaries...but strong enough to beat Trump?
Sorry, but Sanders best chance of victory is a coronavirus pandemic in this country that gets blamed on Trump. Not something I'm wishing for regardless of how much I detest Trump.
2
I wished they asked about policies not the current ridicules headlines focusing on who said what.
Creating nonstories based on trendy headlines with no context seems to be another new norm.
The fact that Bernie mentioned Castro’s literacy program as being good and yet fully acknowledging his evil dictatorship shouldn’t make democrats have a hissy fit and attack him.
Democrats are taking pointers from Trump, throwing out critical thinking and replacing it with irrational nonsense.
I feel like we have been brainwashed to believe that the scariest thing in the world is our taxes going up when in reality it is a smoke and mirrors way to raise prices on absolutely everything and then we will just refocus all of the country’s problems on the idea that taxes can’t go up, then they won’t notice what’s really going on.
4
Does Bernie Sanders winning the nomination worry me?
Yes, very much so.
Will I vote for Bernie Sanders in the General Election?
ABSOLUTELY
7
Calling Bernie a socialist is yet another sad commentary about the ignorance and naivete of the American electorate. He unfortunately associated himself with "Democratic Socialism" which is the underlying basis of the governments of Scandinavia where the standards of living and health care systems are among the very best in the world. "Socialism" in any form for Americans is "communism". Sad indeed..
10
@Jefflz He is a Socialist. Ask him? Trump is a "Democratic" Republican. Does that make him any better? Lenin said the goal of Socialism is Communism. Bernie hasn't disavowed anything the Soviet Union did to its people. In fact he pretty much envies it.
The underlying basis of the governments in Scandinavia is not Democratic socialism, it is well-regulated capitalism. Unless Bernie disavows the Democratic socialist label, the Nordic model is not his goal.
Drama piece for a deadline.
How many polls show various contenders beating the Grifter?
Data shows the Blues out raising the Reds and having more boots on the ground. Plus, Bloomberg will cough up a Billion for the Blues.
It may be ugly but that's the way it is.
2
Good news everyone! So many democrats should really move a notch to the far right republicans. We’re overdue for a deep cleansing. We need to unite with people who have the same goals and ethics , not a wishy washy political amalgame of selfish players. Uniting people who have not much in common is a big mistake that Has highlighted Obama’s legacy for ever. We need participant believers united in true democratic values.
2
Sorry, but I don't buy into the conventional wisdom of Very Serious People about Sanders' unelectability. These same VSPs were telling us Trump couldn't win in 2016 and wrote off Obama in 2008, thinking Hillary was a shoo-in. Pfoeey on them all (Bruni included), with their chorus of bluster. Let Democrats do what they're going to do; with 55% disapproval, Trump is as likely to beat himself as be beaten by an opponent.
4
@Chris Bowling Trump's problem with Never Trumpers was that he was TOO liberal, i.e., he moved to the MIDDLE. No chance of Bernie doing that.
2
We democrats are living in our own bubble. The entire county in its totality is centrist. Ignore the electoral college at your peril.
5
As a lifelong democrat, I am appalled by the candidates' vitriol against each other. If they have not already done so, they are in great danger of alienating many voters.
Anyone on the stage last night would be a better president than the present one, but by acting as they do, screaming, hollering and insulting each other, they throw doubt on their merits.
Please no more debates!
5
No matter who the Democratic nominee is Trump will be slinging all the mud he and his allies can dredge up. After all, it is the only way he can win. So it is a good thing to get the ammunition Trump has out on the table now instead of later.
At least that is one positive the so-called debates have accomplished.
3
The reason I turned it off was Nora. She allowed this to happen because 1, she's Republican, and is awful at hiding her emotions; 2, she really really really doesn't like Bernie Sanders
2
Trump was also destroyed by the Republicans running during the last campaign and survived it anyway. Hopefully we can too.
2
In 2016, nobody thought Trump could be elected. Not the pundits. Not the public. Not the Democrats. Not the Republicans. Not even Trump himself. The conventional wisdom: Triumph the insult comic dog stood a better chance of winning the election. Yet here we are.
2
@Robert M Trump moved to the Middle. That's how he got Obama Democrats to vote for him. No chance of Bernie doing that.
Barring an act of god, Bernie will be the nominee. It’s time to come to peace with it and practice some of that “unity” you’ve been preaching at the left.
7
The Democrat party is only serious about removing Trump. It is the only thing they have given any serious energy to. The rest has been talk or failure to succeed.
The CNN town halls are a far more effective way to hear coherent and complete answers on a candidate's policies, get to know them as people not just politicians and see them interact with a cross section of voters. Skip these useless debates. They are disasters.
4
Cheer up, Frank. The silver lining is that practically nobody watches these debates.
1
1000 Democratic office holders lost before Bernie Sanders appeared on the horizon. Self consumption is an establishment Democrat skill un-related to Bernie Sanders. Wake up Frank.
4
The debate was a horror show of egos intent upon collateral revenge and sound bite posturing. Most of it turned me off. It was all about them and not us, we the people thank you very much. I found myself shocked by a question that kept popping up in the midst of this candidate orchestrated chaos, "is there a third party out there that gets the public issues and knows how to speak to what we and they need to do in tandem with their public service?" ... The only one on the unmoderated, uncivil stage who spoke solid, informed words focused on our public issues and worked at bridging the rural-urban divide was Amy Klobuchar. She gets my vote!!! As progressive as I am, Sanders won't get my support because his radical path will lead to 4 more years of Trump fascism and the end of Democracy as we have known it... O'Donnell and King should have reeled them all in with a directive to shape up their civil public conduct, stop the interrupting and talking over one another, and if they refuse to stay within the agreed to limits, then their mikes will be turned off... Most of these privileged mouthpieces were an embarrassment to watch. Except for Amy, the were poor role models for civil discourse...
I'll never vote for him. I might just have to sit this one out.
I would contend that there are 3 candidates that are actually not running to win.
Bernie's platform is more of a movement than an actual candidacy. He knows (certainly by being in the Senate) that little if any of his agenda can be accomplished. I'm sure he's also aware that running against a strong economy with a transformational economic agenda is a loser.
Bloomberg appears to be running to just squash Sanders. His is more of a practical candidacy than an inspirational one.
And then there's Biden, who has to know that he's too far past his prime. It seems as if his handlers are pushing him along, and try as he might, he just isn't up for it.
I think these debates are useless. The moderators ask the same questions, often ask irrelevant questions, and the candidates repeat the same spiels. (Yes, I've written the various sponsors asking them to ask different questions). The attempts to denounce one another often become vicious and ugly. And then the media declares winners and losers? All this means nothing to me. I want to know what these candidates think about what's happening NOW, to our constitution, our justice system, our national security, our relationships to our allies, the dismantling of our government, etc. I don't like any of the candidates anymore. I am afraid.
1
I have heard many talking heads say that this is a very weak Democrat field but in reality it is the ideology and message that are weak. Free healthcare for illegal immigrants, post birth abortions, taking away folk's private health insurance is not what the American people want.
4
First, we have to realize that this format of all the candidates being given a minute and a half to explain very complex issues and to convince voters that they are nice people who love children and puppies is absurd. What my fellow "Times" readers say below about socialism, for example, is either ridiculous or specious. Given our dire situation, I would suggest that an opening statement by all the candidates -- one hopes that the vanity candidates will vanish -- that says why they are against Trump and how they represent different and differing versions of democracy, limited capitalism and/or socialism. Then, on specific points address issues with logic and facts. Maybe have everybody read the Lincoln-Douglas debates as exemplars of how one uses debates as an instrument for inquiry and a condition for solutions. The problems we face are deadly serious. Trump's continuance will be a disaster for this nation; Trump is exactly what authoritarians from Plato on warned about democracy. He is an ignorant, blind leader for an ignorant, blind people. We can only fight this with vision and understanding. The Dems need to articulate how the authoritarians are wrong and how democracy, political and economic, will give our nation a new hope, if they don't, we all lose.
1
Sanders is the kind of Democrat super-villain that the current brand of angry conservatives love to hate. I really fear that Sanders is Trump's best shot at re-election.
If anything emerged out of last night it is find a better way to vet. Try flipping the format. We, the people, could benefit by having a battery of moderators, say three: a republican, a Democrat and an independent...and they don’t necessarily need to be journalists: might be better if they weren’t, all the time.
The candidate then has to answer the question(s). They could even know the question before, but not who gets to ask it. You can also have a “free form” session, if only to show how a candidate “thinks” on their feet.
At least it would be civil and, we, the people, could feel like we would really know who the best person is for that election cycle.
Obviously, we’ve passed a point where candidates can “debate” anything of substance. Or, at least during the nomination carnival.
The days of corporate news media conducting interviews of political panels, and calling them debates, should end. The media personalities with their podcasts and their personal corporate points of view don’t do our politics or our nation any service. What was wrong with universities and league of women voters sponsoring debates? They were generally neutral at least. Not corporate enough, huh? The Democrats have wrapped themselves in corporatism as it struggles and candidates sell themselves to lobbyists and pacs to raise enough cash to pay those news organizations speaking for and fronting their corporate owners so they can appear on stage to prove who will defend corporations the most. It’s a sick corrupt system. FDR is turning circles in his grave. Sickening, just sickening. Which is why I voted for the socialist. I’m an old guy, not anybody’s bro or brah, who believes still the government should be of, by, and for “the people“, not of, by, and for the corporate oligarchs who are busy incinerating our planet and enslaving her people with unforgivable debt - medical, student, and otherwise.
1
Another appalling spectacle of ill-mannered, bad tempered and undisciplined people cannibalizing one another on National Television for the world to watch, for Putin to watch and applaud the circus with glee. All contributing footage for all the attack ads the DT campaign will use.
It appears the CBS endorsed the spectacle. There were no rules, no requirement that people not interrupt each other, no limits set on how long they were to speak, and no consequences for interruptions, and raised voices. The network believe that their viewers need to have an element of entertainment, and since Donald Trumps spectacles of spewing rage and insults has become the ordre du jour, they have taken this up, and serve it to its viewers. What a poor example to first time voters, and to the youth of this country.
Fortunately we are free to choose.
This is the last debate we will watch. It is so utterly depressing
2
It was a messy debate, but I would take that mess any day over the authoritarian mess that is Donald Trump and his anti-American, greedy, self serving Republicans in government.
They are not working for the country. They are owned by the rich and serve only the rich while destroying the country.
And this includes our corporate Supreme Court LLC.
This is our chance to choose between dictatorship and democracy- between Russia and America.
3
Bloomberg’s past matters, Sanders’ and Warren’s past do not. Outside the fanatics, the hypocrisy is clearly seen.
1
One reason I wait for the analysis or fact checker on these debates is that to read most of the coverage, I'm confused. Were they describing a debate or a WWE match? When I read the way most reporters write about this, I can see Warren tagging Buttigieg, then jumping off the top of the ring to land squarely on Biden. Of course, I'm probably the hundredth person to make a remark like this...
Moderate and progressive Democrats need to find a way to build a governing coalition together.Neither can defeat the other. Neither can win without the other. Neither can govern without the other.If they don’t join together — if the Democrats opt for a circular firing squad — you can kiss the America you grew up in goodbye.
1
Perhaps various aspects of the Democratic Party are cannibalistic in nature as it continues to "devour itself" but it is still a far better party than the Republican Party who continue to demolish and destroy with joy and pleasure this country and the U.S. Constitution.
There's still hope within the Democratic Party while the Republican Party crossed the Rubicon and all that remains is a free fall when it comes to democracy.
1
"Pioneer in neck aerobics " best visual ever . They did need to pile on Bernie ; they've pretty well given him a pass . If he ends up being the nominee he'll need the practice in defending himself against Trump who fights like a junk yard dog ; spouting his usual free everything is not going to be of help . I hate to say this but Americans are addicted to the blood letting Colosseum style , Bernie needs the practice to learn the verbal judo of Warren and Buttigieg .
Sanders says 'it's unfair to simply say everything is bad' with Fidel Castro's Cuba."
Is it unfair to simply say everything was bad about Stalin's Soviet Union; Mao's China; and Hitler's Germany?
The poison that Stalin, Mao, Hitler, and Castro spread is still being felt today.
2
If I voted my preference based on policy objectives and on who I think would practically focus most on the job of president, I would probably vote for Warren. Such a vote does not look like one that would support the number one goal of defeating Trump. I wish at this stage, or immediately after super Tuesday, that all candidates, PR people, and major donors take a retreat for several days and skip trying to knock each other out and instead put together a ticket with a moderate and a progressive, a male and a female, and develop a prioritized platform (universal health care, infrastructure development, and raising taxes from wealthy individuals and corporations would be a broad-based top three with the details to be sorted out later). Then that team needs to really focus collectively on defeating Trump. Democrats should try something new along these lines. Whatever candidates can line up this team ASAP has my vote and I bet many others.
2
In this, our winter of dis-content, asking who won the debate is like asking who won the shootout at the OK corral.
What we call a debate is nothing like a contest between two teams determining who can best defend or reject a proposition- not a bad idea actually - but more like an audition for American Idol President as directed by Sam Peckinpah.
This shallow line-up of cameos is further diminished by the employment of action video camera work, changing buy the second to fit our ever narrowing attention span, split-screen images designed to focus attention away from the speaker and towards anything deemed dramatic. Long suspenseful zooms, signage that mimics the mesmerizing crawl on cable news and slightly shifting camera positions keep the viewer completely baffled as to what is being said and in a state of near hypnosis.
True to the script and as if on queue, candidates sense the chaos that has been created for them and attack each other virulently, enhancing the drama complete: the sad story that our political system has slipped beyond our control and fallen prey to the message of the medium.
As viewer discretion seemed to demand, I turned off the video and listened for a while. No one really had a chance to get a word in in this so-called debate. The moderators failed to moderate, especially when the action heated up, and the ribald shooting circle formed as hoped.
So nobody won the debate, but we all know the people who lost.
1
Sanders (and the others) regularly ignore how they would get anything done if they don't get supermajorities in both chambers of Congress. Eliminate the cloture vote for the filibuster? Are they that shortsighted? I would remind everyone that the Rs control 27 states right now. That's 54 out of 100 senators even if that's only 30% of the population of the US. They WILL get control of the Senate again at some point and eliminating the filibuster would be a disaster in the hands of someone like McConnell.
Getting any Dem elected to the White House is only 1 of a 4 part problem, and I don't hear from any of them (and especially Sanders right now) how those other 3 parts will be best served if they are nominated.
1) White House
2) Retain House of Representatives
3) Gain control of the Senate with sufficient numbers to prevent obstruction through willful negligence. (i.e. at least 60)
4) Gain control of a majority of state governorships and/or legislatures.
Only if all 4 are done will something as grandiose getting the country back on track would be achievable. Nearly 2/3 of the US are liberal or liberal-leaning (don't forget that second group; they're actually bigger than the full liberal group) Sanders repeated concerns me because not only does he say nothing about how to achieve all that; I sometimes wonder if he actually is aware that it's necessary. He seems to honestly think that a supermajority will somehow magically appear in order to help him.
The Democratic Party has always been a big tent of big ideas. Candidates and their constituents loudly argue in support of these ideas. The difference, however, is that the Democratic Party can handle policy disagreements, and come together to serve the national interest. By contrast, the Republican Party allows only one idea--what is best for President Trump. If you don't agree, they attack condemn and reject you, personally.
1
This is my calculation. Bernie will not give us Medicare for All. The Senate will not allow it no matter how well Democratic candidates do. Besides, his model is more akin to other Western powers that all claim the title "capitalist".
But, a message needs to be sent. And that message is that the days of yelling "socialist" to scare people are over with. The GOP made liberalism a dirty word for 40 years and look what we have to show for it. Electing Bernie will demonstrate that the "liberal" is no longer an epithet.
2
Let's face it. These debates constitute "pseudo-events" -- worthless, vacuous happenings designed to promote verbal pugilism and non-understanding. I simply shut off the audio, did some other computer work, and checked the NY Times commentary feed after it was all done to check no one died of a heart attack.
Here's the take away: Sanders once said something nice about gradeschools in Cuba, Klobuchar has an uncle who likes to hunt, Biden and Bloomberg aren't very good public speakers, Warren is Bloomberg's nemesis and everyone wants to talk about math.
Really be nice if all the candidates would stand in solidarity and boycott some of these "debates." Save everyone the time.
1
please, just give me a new President..I am thinking of this planet and my two grandchildren.
3
Maybe there was a reason that CBS never hosted a debate before. Those "moderators" acted like substitute teachers who couldn't handle a rowdy second grade class. And those questions. Getting questions from Twitter? I'm surprised they didn't ask the candidate what kind of tree they'd be if they were a tree. Bernie was the only adult in the room and nobody laid a glove on him.
4
President Sanders - a tragic comedy where revolutionary ideas meet reality. Check local listings..
2
p.s. I forgot to mention that I'm 66 years old.
Bernie Sanders is a good man, and wants to do good for the country. But, there's something fundamentally deceptive about how he has coopted the Democratic party for advancing his own candidacy in '16 and '20. A presidential candidate needs to not only win the White House but also help the party win majority in both the House and the Senate. He isn’t interested in the latter. He’s just exploiting the D party machinery for his own personal ambition. He should either join the Democratic Party all the way, run on its platform, help other Democrats or start his own Democratic Socialist Party and run on its plank. Otherwise he just remains a Political Parasite. Very unsavory stance.
5
Bernie's not a Democrat. Go ahead, ask him.
After reading this article I'm going to send another donation to Bernie campaign.
4
headline:
The Democratic Party Devours Itself.
Please nix the tabloid headlines...
Remember the humiliating GOP primaries of the still ugly Impeached Trump? That's devouring your own and yet look who's in the White House and controls the Senate?
Dems can afford arguing over policy and who would be the best person to defeat Trump...
What they can't afford is to avoid discussing Impeached Trump's awful policies from bad tax cuts, lying about healthcare and America's diminishing role in the world, that does not mean more wars but real influence that effects jobs and the economy.
Impeached Trump has made America, or at least himself, which reflects on us, an inept, corrupt, laughing stock.
Democrats need to chill with the Bernie histeria. Those who predict that he loses to Trump need to remember how sure everyone was the Trump would lose to Hillary. Plus, Bernie leads Trump in almost all polls.
Also the alleged mayhem the “Bernie bros” are causing online may very well be Russian trolls trying to sow discord. You know, that tactic is actually effective.
2
At least the Superbowl had adult entertainment at halftime. This debate was more like a Battle Royale in rasslin'.
With demagoguery on display, another Democrat debate disgrace unfolded, replete with candidates begging to bend over backwards in quest of garnering votes from hoped for easily manipulated minorities. This shouting match, replete with hands waving frantically for attention and interruptions at will, presented another pretense for November disaster. From Buttigieg bemoaning a stage bereft of color with this Caucasian only cast of candidates, in a sad apology; to belligerent Biden, he no Johnny-come-lately to egomania, beginning each sentence with I, then forgetting mid-sentence which direction to turn, to Elizabeth Warren constantly clamoring for full disclosure unless it involves her ancestry challenged access to Harvard, to Steyer attempting to buy African American votes by screeching Reparations, to Bernie end running his guns and ammo votes with a fuselage of panic, and Bloomberg actually standing taller; this frantically fomenting cast of forgettable contestants causes a genuine fear of the future if they ever gain control.
1
After that debate, the only thing I could think was, you really gotta hand it to Trump. He singlehandedly has destroyed both US political parties on his face to dictatorship.
1
Attacking others vying for the party’s nomination is nothing new, witness the attacks among the 2016 Republican hopefuls. That was quite a show, including what can be inferred from hand sizes and accusations of bigotry, stupidity and worse. And look who was nominated by the Republicans, the worst of the bunch. More frightening was that he went on to win the general election and now evenly splits his time between sitting in the Oval office and playing golf at one of the resorts that bear his name.
I do not find any of the Democratic hopefuls inspiring and the debates, though barely qualifying to be called as such, have not moved me. At this point in this interminable election cycle all I can say is I will not vote for the incumbent.
1
Don't care. Vote Blue, no matter who.
3
The truly alarming picture is that the Democrats appear to have adopted the Republican model of how to guarantee the worst of all outcomes for another next four years.
If Bruni's instincts are right, and they usually are, the humanoid nightmare whose intelligence might best be compared to that of a snail and whose morals to those of a mafia don will be given, by default, another four years to complete the demolishment of the same America that our forefathers gave their all to preserve 75 years ago.
1
To say Democrats don't trust Bernie is false. The "new" Socialist Democrat party trusts him 100%.
1
For all who were wringing their hands during the South Carolina debate last night, please read Thomas L. Friedman's opinion column with its joyously radical proposal:
"Dems, You Can Defeat Trump in a Landslide." ( NYT Feb 25)
If Michael Dukakis had said, “how dare you put that image of my wife being raped in the minds of millions of people, but if you really want to know, I’d tear their throats out with my bare hands...” He’d have done better. If Hillary Clinton had said, “Donald, you have your chair over there. Stop stalking me; you’re creeping me out...” she would have won. No President has ever been elected because of a debate, but several have lost because of them. Last night they all lost. Any one of them could have said, “Moderators, you’ve lost control. This is an uncivil mess, and I will not stand here and be part of a childish free for all,” and then walked away, that person would have made the point he or she needs to win the nomination. That was a disgrace.
1
Why not just say what everyone knows? Sanders isn't going to be the nominee. Sanders will split the party if he heads the ticket. Moderate suburban voters will not vote for Democratic Socialism. That point can't be emphasized enough. If this election is about kitchen table issues: jobs & affordable education there's no way we lose. If it's about Medicare for All & more illegal immigration there's no way we win. Sanders wants to provide free health care for illegal immigrants, which would be paid for by raising taxes on middle-class Americans. This is the only issue that would compel independent swing voters to hold their nose & vote for Trump again. Sanders has contempt for the Democratic establishment & intends to eviscerate them once elected. The DNC will not co-operate in their own demise. They will try to undermine his campaign in ways both large & small as they did in 2016. We all knew it was going to end this way. No one should be surprised. Unfortunately denying Bernie the nomination if he has a commanding lead in both votes and delegates is the best way to hand Trump the election. The Democrats may conclude that they have no choice but to let Sanders go down in a McGovern style defeat. The purists would rather reign in a GOP hell than serve in a moderate heaven. OK. So be it. This will cause a civil war in the Democratic party and the progressives will be forced out once & for all. The tent has become too big to accommodate these many competing interests.
2
Does anyone else see the irony in frank Bruni saying the fear mongering "scared the hell out of me." Then acting on that fear by writing an article titled"the Democratic party devours itself"?
4
Mr. Bruni, have you forgotten the 2016 Republican debate when candidates were comparing penis size? These debates are rating shows for the networks, have little influence on anything. Stop whining.
Yes, the Establishment is freaking out - including you Frank, and most of your NYT colleagues - and you're all right to be doing so, but not because Bernie Sanders is looking like the presumptive nominee, but because you have all completely missed the mood of the majority. What's astounding is that so many supposedly smart people, having had a tsunami of cold water thrown in their faces in 2016, could still be so ignorant. The working and middle class is "Mad as hell, and not going to take it anymore!".
Meanwhile, all you so-called "reasonable" moderates who are blaming Sanders for tearing the party apart, are actually the ones doing the tearing and fracturing. Because you all don't understand how "incremental change" borne of the "reasonable moderation" has allowed the majority of Americans to slip backwards - not only economically, but in life expectancy - while a very few have profited grotesquely, you aim your anger at Sanders instead of at yourselves.
Pete thought he was clever in painting Bernie as lost in the Sixties, but the truth is that many of the issues he fought then are still issues today thanks to "incremental change"! Did racial and gender equality get eliminated because the ERA was passed? It's STILL not ratified! How about racial justice? Was that solved by all the civil rights laws passed? And since then conservatives have been undoing what FDR, JFK, and LBJ did, without any real fight from most Democrats.
And wasn't Trump a fringe figure?
5
The moderator encourage candidates hacking each other. They like chaos. It increases viewership, i.e. money. They were awful last night and so were the pundits. Biden is befuddled, a bit demented, and should withdraw. Warren is strident and unforgiving, she's terrible. Sanders is ridiculous, he considers himself the front runner, while most voters vote against rather than for him. Mayor Pete is ok and so is Amy. Neither can beat Trump. Bloomberg is rational, rich, and honest. Yeah, he's made mistakes but Trump is deathly afraid of him. Bloomberg is the best candidate, an adult moderate who won't bankrupt the country and tax the hell out of the middle class.
Here is a link to a video produced by Reason TV on Bernie Sanders. As you watch it count how many ads will be obtained by Trump's campaign:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2d3DMC6qyg&t=6s
Now keep in mid that the majority of voters are middle age or older and will be aware of what is covered in this video.
Is Mr. Bruni referring to the Debate last night?
Based on his expectation for J Lo and Shakira to have crowned Biden and Warren the Dem Prez and VP nomination at the afterparty of the South Carolina Sing Along?
That's a bit silly. Climb out of your playpen, take off the fear goggles, and you will see a typical battle, from which a victor will emerge, to fight a new battle.
The same.... as it ever was.
2
Pretty standard recap of the debate, but the title to this piece is kind of depressing. This is what a political struggle for power looks like. If you are going to criticize the process, criticize the moderators who ask questions that invite conflict and wind up skirting more substantive debate.
1
Thanks for saying this. Dems are headed for disaster. Sanders had nothing but stick answers to complex questions.
Trying to attract voters by promising them lots of free stuff is never a winning strategy in the end. And that is exactly what every Democrat candidate for president is doing. Where will all the money come from to fund Medicare for all, the Green New Deal, free college tuition, the fogiveness of all college debt, and all the other freebies that these crazy candidates are promising? And why isn't anyone in the mainstream media demanding an answer to that question?
2
Bernie will win despite tremendous media effort to stop him. His ideas are not radical at all in any developed democratic country. He advocates the right things . No one explains to us why a substantial portion of taxpayer money is being spent for military presence across the globe together with billions of dollars for weapons . It is time to re-allocate taxpayer money to fund basic human rights like universal healthcare ,affordable college education and social security.
8
@HA Do you have any idea how much baggage Sanders has? It's not so much about his policies (for me at least) it's about his electability and also his lack of any real accomplishments. All I want is Trump to be gone, and we need to nominate someone who has a chance to win the election. Sanders is not that person.
@MMNY
Well, non-of the democratic candidates have more baggage than trump. Trump's electability was questionable and he had many failures, let alone accomplishments. But people voted for him...Quite frankly, I don't think a moderate democratic candidate will be able to make the structural changes that Sanders or Warren advocates. That being said, I will vote blue no matter who.
Why is it so hard for the candidates to realize that going after each other like they have been going, only benefits Trump? Don't they see that whoever is chosen to be the nominee will need the help of all the others, and their supporters to succeed in getting to the WH? We are stronger together. Please stop doing the GOP's work for them.
2
The field is simply too big, too late.
So the anxiety is high and focus diffused.
It is Tom Perez job to start making some difficult phone calls.
2
As Aaron Rodgers (the quarterback for the Green Bay Packers) said several years back: R-E-L-A-X. The process is messy, but it is not a mess. The party is not devouring itself. The debate was raucous and biting but not unpleasant. It was a serious skirmish that permitted all the candidates a last gasp (if on fringe of dropping out) or to sharpen their tools for the real battle, on the horizon.
I am a moderate dem but I would vote for ANY of these candidates before I would vote for DT. And I know I am not alone. There's been a lot of hand-wring over Bernie from the moderate side of the ticket. I'm not saying that these concerns aren't real. But the choice would still be clear, once folks considered the binary choice between DT and X.
The real issue lurking on the horizon is not who wins the dem ticket, but how the party coalesces after the convention to prepare for the Final Battle. It is going to be OK if the party coalesces, and that starts with having conversations with your family, colleagues, friends, and FB friends now.
6
Time for the debates to stop. They are doing nothing good for the Democrats, the country, and the world.
4
We're back in medieval times in the United States. The celebration of ignorance is a return to greatness, according to the GOP. Many of the candidates last night were not articulate in the traditional sense of the word. Joe Biden shouted and he was forceful, but his words came tumbling out of his mouth like marbles. Bernie's well-rehearsed lines fell flat for me. Bloomberg sounded smug, and maybe being a billionaire he is used to people laughing at his "jokes" but they were not funny or well delivered. Klobuchar sounded rehearsed, and somewhat pitiful. Only Warren, Mayor Pete, and Steyer actually spoke like someone I would recognize as a not fully programmed and robotic human.
The candidates should stop doing these debates. They kill themselves and bring out the worst. End them!
4
Trump vs Sanders? OY Vey and adios Florida, Dems!
7
If your worried about Bernie losing to Trump, get out and help Bernie win. Really, what good are you?
9
The Republican primary in 2016 was far more vitriolic than anything we saw last night. Just ask "Little Marco Rubio", "Lyin Texas Ted" and "Low Energy Jeb".
8
Yeah and they all lost.
The loser in this debate: South Carolina. How sad to see them represented by a Jerry Springer type crowd. Sorry, you don’t get to boo and jeer at a debate for President. Learn how to behave.
8
Sanders and his Shouty McShoutface routine is old, tiresome and excellent parody of your non-drunk Grandfather. He IS the Democratic version of Trump, except intelligent and housebroken. That’s not enough.
Seriously.
4
The comments here are as bloviated as last night's debate. Keep it pithy, people.
2
Given Trump’s love affairs with Putin, MBS, XI, and Kim all current villains more formidable than Castro and the Sandinistas Bernie can “so what” Trump’s Red baiting. Because American foreign policy is utterly incoherent, Sanders championing of literacy and healthcare in Cuba are duds. Capitalists have been making billions in and with China, Vietnam, and Saudi Arabia. Despite complete lack of faith in North Korea and multiple violations of Trump’s “deal” with Kim, Trump is still “loyal” to him. Despite MBS mutilation and murder of Khashoggi and in the US assisted annihilation of the Yemenis, despite absolute religious tyranny and misogyny Trump is “loyal” to MBS. The case against Sanders admiration of the positive social achievements of Socialist bad actors, Trump has crossed every line with his crazy “loyalties” to villains on the stage today. Sanders did not ask Russia and China for help, but Trump did. Yet Chris Matthews and James Carville are working for Trump and Putin when they attack Sanders. It is disgraceful that any American politician or partisan would attack Sanders on the basis of socialism when we have a fascist liar in the WH today. What madness.
7
I wish Bernie would stop talking about Cuba. All the right and Trump hear is Cuba/Communism. I don't care about the literacy rate that Castro fixed. How about the secret police, Cubans tortured and disappeared because they spoke against the govenment.? Bernie just stop!!
5
If this is the best we can expect, the only thing I can think of to improve a debate between such an unself-disciplined group of candidates is to strap them down and put a timed kill switch on their microphones.
1
Trump didn't run a covert stealthy subtle campaign in 2016. And having won his first political governing election he is following the same formula in 2020. Trump can't be blamed on divine royal sanction selection nor an armed uniform military coup.
Our divided limited power Constitutional republic of united states is existentially threatened by the 63 million people including 58% of the white European American majority made-up of 62% of white men and 54% of white women who voted for Donald Trump in 2016.
In 2016 Trump beat 16 Republican primary opponents then Hillary Clinton in the general election. And so far Trump is beating the 26+ Democratic Party opponents in 2020 along with whomever emerges as the party nominee in the general election.
If only we lived in a Constitutional republic where the people wielded the ultimate sovereign power over their elected and selected hired help.
No wonder our smiling and smirking Russian Czar Father Vladimir Putin and our Israeli King Father Benjamin Netanyahu are so pleased at the antics of their mutual pawn pet puppet making them and their nations great again.
5
Bruni's hysteria is misplaced. While the Democrats were busy dividing us into protected classes and special interest groups, the Republicans were building an actual political party - as vile and perverted as it is. Once again, the Democrats Bruni favors amount to mediocrities whose chief attraction is their promise not to interfere with the plutocracy the Republicans are nourishing.
4
I felt badly for the well prepared moderators, who didn't anticipate that Gayle King would need a gavel to pound out "Come to order, come to order!"
Any one of them as the nominee shouldn’t matter. Driven Snow isn’t running, so, IF we can all set aside our nitpicking, inconsequential blah, blah, blah, attitude and ALL support the democrat against America’s really common enemy, we’ll win! Now, if only pigs could fly...
1
Oh jeez. Stop complaining that the debate was too uncivilized. That's not the debaters' fault. Blame the F-Minus CBS moderators for losing control from the first minute. Debaters are gonna debate. It is the moderators who failed in their mission. As for the handwringing that Bernie is gonna bring us down (and no, I am not a Bernie Bro), I am confident you can find this exact column written in 2016 referencing Trump. Pundits gonna pundit.
1
Some thoughts on why are these debates and this process is so terrible:
1. The "hunger games" format is horrible. Are the moderators enjoying popcorn and beer while the hyena kill unfolds on stage?
2. Absent data, Russia tampering is a rat hole and unbounded topic. All analysis puts the effect as completely overblown. Voters either don't care or fins it demeaning to to be called manipulated when they know why they vote for someone.
3. Old white people from predominantly white places are not good spokespeople for racism. Stop that talk track. Plus most people don't believe Trump is really racist, just a big orange jerk.
4. Certain irrelevant candidates waste time attacking other irrelevant candidates. This is a waste of time. Either shrink the candidates or more aggressively moderate the debate
5. Kill the mic's of candidates after their time is up. Please!
6. Ask each candidate a difficult question, based on their perceived weakness and let them respond, then give everybody 30 seconds based on a predetermined order. The free for all has to stop.
2
There seems to be an article like this every time there is a Democratic primary, as though it is a surprise that candidates will stoop to infighting and insult to keep their hopes alive. Is this really shocking to anyone? I mean it seems to be commented on by journalists and opinion writers every time the process reaches a critical juncture as though this is some shocking development.
Nobody can, in my opinion, prove themselves to be any better to withstand a guaranteed Trump insult onslaught after the primary but Bernie is the front runner so he gets the most scrutiny. After witnessing Amy K.'s reaction to Pete or any criticisms these last two debates, does anyone out there really believe she could endure the onslaught? Or Biden's inability to enunciate his thoughts cleanly? Do you think Warren is pugnacious enough to combat Trump and not wither?
Last night should not inspire anybody who is anti-Bernie to have faith that he will be taken down on Super Tuesday or at all through the end of the primary.
3
I fear that if it is Trump and Sanders - even Dems would not quickly push a button- 4 yrs of each are equally odious. It would be a reason for people not to vote. Look* at Sanders senate record- ZERO accomplished directly by him. He simply voted and nothing else.We want* to vote out of conviction and that is the candidate we need now. Frank-- we had better think out of the box and consider factor "X". So, consider a dark horse even now to come out of the shadows: I saw Tom Steyer in a full hour the town hall with Chris Cuomo in Charleston-do watch this amazing stuff. this is no time to be dismissive. I pictured him next to trump and its so clear who is the American with the demeanor we are searching for at this moment. Watch fully and If you had him as a true and smart nominee and offered Pete B. as his VP running mate- BINGO. The buttons for never trumpers and independents and dems would be easy to push - because it offers a true future of possibilities ( look at his long list of what he believes can be done) vs. old men who have done their time and those voters who will sink when trump pushes the word "socialism" as the scary word. we need a hybrid of intelligence- not show business.
1
As a Moderate Democrat looking for a solid candidate who can beat Trump, I'm very concerned. None of these candidates have demonstrated they will hold strong in a debate with Trump. It is so very, very important that we have a candidate who can beat Trump in a National election. The moderate candidates are all weak on the debate stage (and, if you are weak debating the other Dems, how will you do against Trump?) or in their policy proposals. Warren and Sanders are good debaters, but are too far left with "pie in the sky" policies to be attractive to the Moderates or Independents. What a muddle. I'm worried that Trump will be the winner by default. This republic will not survive another 4 years of his corruption, mismanagement, ability to change the courts including the Supreme Court, lawlessness, lack of respect for the Constitution, and his acceptance and encouragement of white nationalism, et al. What are we to do at this point?
1
It was painful to watch. The format does make them panicky to get their points in (60 seconds!) and the cross talk was out of control. Knowing all the candidates have great strengths I kept hoping they could calmly demonstrate them. I wanted them all to show civility and cordiality post-debate at least- after all, they are united in wanting to defeat Trump at least. But I'm starting to feel that the endless post-mortem are not helping either. The NYT has been guilty of ignoring Elizabeth Warren who to me is the most prepared candidate, and emphasizing the discord among candidates. They are also helping Trump find ways to weaponize their commentary. When the candidate is chosen, whoever it is, I hope to see ego set aside and a fervent and passionate effort to help the chosen candidate. Bernie couldn't do that for Hillary four years ago, stinting and enraged by the DNC, but hopefully if he's the candidate those on stage will go the high-minded route and get the monster out of the White House.
1
I’m not sure what you saw, but I clearly remember Bernie gracefully stepping out of the primary race in 2016 and encouraging his supporters to vote Hillary. To the point where Republicans regularly try to use that fact to damage him.
3
@Brian Wengrofsky I remember him grousing and reluctant, although he certainly did at least a lukewarm encouragement at the end. Many of his supporters did not vote and I frankly think he should have addressed that at the time, emphasizing the consequence. If 52% of Bernie supporters recently polled said they wouldn't vote for anyone but him, you know he needs to address that if he's not the candidate.
Why are our Democratic frontrunners elderly?
I'm no spring chicken (49), but elderly candidates do not represent the future.
They don't represent the forward progress and change we value as Democrats.
What better way to demonstrate clear contrast with trump, than with someone who visibly personifies the future, as opposed to the past?
1
Bernie did what he needed to do, especially in his closing statement where despite his reputation for angry tirades, he expressed more hope and optimism than any of the other candidates on the stage. Pete's going for the Obama-esque in his phrasing and comportment, but it's Bernie who's got it in his heart.
8
Let’s all agree. The primary debates are not debates where candidates present arguments for their ideas and against the solution to national problems proposed by their rivals.
Rather, they are cage fights where candidates devote their allotted time to destroying the motives, character, and even the patriotism of the other candidates.
Nixon is gone but his receipt for victory remains his monument. To win the primary, speak to only the most vocal and extreme faction in your party’s base, and if you win the nomination , disavow all you have said, sprint to center and appear to appeal to the nation’s moderate independent voters. It is absurd of course, but with the complicity of the national press, history confirms its utility.
2
Back in the day, when the networks’ news divisions were kept pristinely separate from entertainment, journalism flourished. We see the chaos merging news and entertainment has brought to network news coverage when we watch performers, not journalists, attempt to moderate debates.
4
Most of the debate was a mess with too much noise for this introvert. Mayor Pete especially seemed to talk over others.
Highlights of the debate for me: the closing remarks by Bernie in which he said his ideas are not radical and quoted Mandela as saying it always seems impossible until it is done. He hit is out of the park right then and there while other people (Buttigieg and Warren) were quoting the New Testament (pandering to Christians? something neither Bernie nor Bloomberg could do) or talking about their misunderstood height (Bloomberg) or sense of humor (Klobuchar).
9
My California mail-in ballot sits on my desk, screaming at me to make a choice, with just 5 days left. Last night left me confused, despondent and fearful that we're about to replay McGovern in 1972. I lived in Massachusetts then, and it was a very lonely feeling the day after that election, when MA was the only state carried by McGovern. Nixon was toxic and crazy, but he still got re-elected. Trump may very well do the same despite his last 3 years of incoherent ranting.
Don't rely on "peace and prosperity" either as a Trump hedge — that's an illusion when mendacity reigns supreme in the White House, one crisis away from chaos. Coronavirus may ring that bell.
Bernie will likely carry California next week. I know his supporters are young and enthusiastic, and I envy that they are the inevitable multi-cultural future of pluralistic America. But they have absolutely no historical memory of Nixon, McGovern, or any of the outright communists like Daniel Ortega who Bernie has a soft spot for. This is déjà vu for me, and definitely not in a good way.
10
@MCV207 Bernie's supporters may not have a historical memory of the 1970's but they own the future. We owe them a livable planet. We owe them a Green New Deal. We owe them Bernie.
11
@MCV207 Actually young voters our only hope here. they deserve to choose a their own future and outlook because we failed them miserably.
4
@Jackson
Yes we understand sometimes big change can be scary but we have to be big picture thinkers and stop thinking about the moment we need a future for our children and their children.
I don't care about my personal wealth or even what happens to me, I care about my child and her future.
Not dependent on the Middle East, we need to move away from oil like other progressive countries.
1
We've been through months of anti-Sanders bashing from all corners of the media world, capped with last week's alarmist call to battle and exhortations to the other candidates to go to war against him. What did you think would happen? Instead of continuing to think of ways to bring Sanders down, there could be more insightful reporting and analysis of why he is popular with voters and how the democratic party could harness that to our collective benefit.
11
Sanders and his vicious supporters are bringing the entire election down. I'm so tired of his one-note message against the oligarchy being hammered, hammered, hammered to appeal to poor people who might think he can actually implement the policies that he's advocating. He doesn't give me the feeling that he would be a competent leader for the entire country.
I'm concerned, especially since there is a Republican movement to vote for Sanders in open primaries around the country to sew chaos, that Sanders will get the nomination, (rigged in his favor), and lose not only the presidency but our House and Senate and many down-ballot Dems as well.
I used to like Bernie but I detest what he and his supporters are doing to the process, and especially dislike how Republicans are using this to their advantage. It seems that a Sanders nomination is just trading one form of ugly chaos (Trump), for another (Sanders).
6
@Sydney
Just be aware that much of the “bad” things you hear about Bernie and his supporters may very well be coming from Russian misinformation. After all, their objective is to sow discord. It actually is quite effective.
5
Bernie Sanders will lose to Trump and by now that ending is the only thing I have to look forward to. He will deserve it. We will deserve it. And Trump will laugh at us. But we can maybe get it together by 2024.
5
Screaming, yelling, name calling, waving your arms around. Don’t we already have someone in the White House who can do that?
8
Again, cut the mikes for all except those when selected to speak by the moderators.
7
Man, between the Never-Trumper conservatives screeching that a Sanders presidency will be worse for America than four more years of Trump and the weak-bladdered liberals like you, Frank, certain that whatever Democrats are doing is tactically disastrous, the Times Opinion section is getting to be a major buzzkill. The only one of you columnists I’d want on my team is Charles Blow and maybe Michelle Goldberg after two fingers of scotch. The rest of y’all are a bunch of panic merchants.
Here’s a tip: There is no sure thing. The Democrats can lose. That’s true no matter who they nominate and no matter how friendly the nomination process is or is not. Deal with it. Using the platform of your column to exorcise your own anxiety doesn’t help anyone.
8
Meanwhile, Trump destroys the nation, cruelly makes fun of the handicap, grabs women by the p, and is a paid stooge to Russia. He was right in one regard: Yeah, it's easy to be a Republican.
5
The MSM and mainstream democratic tantrum freakout about Sanders is something to behold.
9
You know Frank, the Trump campaign wouldn't have thought to turn it into a commercial UNTIL YOU JUST SUGGESTED IT! Come on man! Wait...do they read? Maybe, but probably not the NYT Opinion section. We're probably ok. But seriously! Wise up!
5
@DGoffred
Right, because Frank's the only one that thought of this. Pls don't be too sure that your little group is the only one that can 'read' and that only true blue folks know how to get here.
Good. the party of racial divisions, identify politics and tax theft finally shows it ps true colors.
3
Bernie's Cuba assertions reminded me of John Kerry's international litmus test moment in his 2004 debate against GWB...."you take preemptive action if you pass a global test" said John Kerry before massive backpedaling ensued after the debate to put the cat back in the bag. Why do Democrats not learn from their own mistakes????? I'll vote blue no matter who, but really?
1
Hey Frank! Try to settle down and “feel the Bern” yourself and stop believing all the fear mongering. All the polls show Bernie beating Trump convincingly in Michigan and other midwest states and he is securing the independent vote along with bringing youngsters to the polls who normally wouldn’t even vote. So again, settle down, relax-and let that “Bern” consume you!
#Sanders/Abrams 2020!
4
While so much of the media continues to marginalize Warren, the Boston Globe just endorsed her. They make a solid case for her run.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/02/26/opinion/globe-endorses-elizabeth-warren/
3
One of the worst moderated debates I have ever witnessed. I remember from college that debates were structured, there were rules and everyone adhered to them or they were penalized accordingly.
Mr. Sanders double down on his praise for Castro, and if I were a moderator I would’ve asked him whether Mussolini and Hitler also did good things. The trains ran on time in Italy, and the autobahn was built in Germany. Sanders is just tone deaf and is truly a radical.
2
@Mitchell myrin
Yes. But the autobahns are still around and highly admired. And the Volkswaggon?
1
Mr. Sanders continues to do his best Ralph Nader imitation. The Democratic Party is likewise channeling the UK's Labor Party. Together, their "man the barricades" pseudo-revolutionary nonsense will re-elect the foulest pseudo-president we've ever experienced, and the downballot impacts on house-senate-state candidates will be enormous and disastrous ( unless you are a redneck, bigot, warmonger, or cretin).
The Democratic presidential primary circular firing squad sideshow/freakshow is, in the words of a former presidential candidate, "deplorable". Having been registered in the past in each of the major political parties (so that I could have my voice heard? I laugh...) I look forward to proudly reinstating my "independent" status.
Now, more obviously than ever, it is time for a third party, open-minded and fiscally prudent, to rise like a phoenix out of the ashes of the dumpster-fire disaster that is our current surreal political landscape.
4
Why I feel that by attacking Sanders so viciously and unfairly sometimes, they made him stronger and, I believe, the winner of last night's debate. For leading the attacks, Buttigieg was the biggest loser.
7
What a collection of Jerks. It is sad with so many talented people in this country that so few want to work for the government. Clearly because of all the back biting that goes on. Trump looks better and better the more they open their mouths.
4
Calm down Frank, you're not helping. These candidates could calmly read the pledge of allegiance and Trumps Kremlin troll factory would spin it into them reading the satanic bible. Stop worrying about the dirty tricks that our cheeto in chief has up his sleeve, worry about winning.
3
Would the old men shuffle off and let the women debate the issues.......in an intelligent manner!
1
Everyone relax.
It's going to take a nasty, offensive, insulting, person to go toe to toe with Trump and this is simply a bit o basic training for the eventual winner.
And a note to the punditry:
STOP SAYING '________' isn't electable!
You don't know who is or is not electable!
Here's a list of electable Dems:
Gore
Kerry
Hillary
Can you tell me what they all have in common? (LEH!)
Now, Bernie is just mean enough, nasty enough, tough enough, smart enough, and with his pinky still on the truth enough to win.
Stop poo-pooing all over the candidate who generates energy and excitement.
6
@Chris Morris
1. There are TWO only two candidates that generate energy: Sanders and Trump, two of the worst candidates in a generation.
2. Gore should've been elected, but blame NAFTA for his loss. The number of jobs eliminated in mid-America gave that election to Bush.
2
@RBC
Well, that doesn't disprove anything I said.
Also, I don't particularly like it either, though Sanders is the superior man to Trump in any case.
"Kill it?'
Maybe Bloomberg is a real Democrat after all?
1
What about Warren.....please!?
1
I'd rather vote for an honest socialist like Sanders than a dishonest fascist like Trump. And getting rid off Trump also gets rid of Barr, Pompeo, Miller and the gang of toadies that surround Trump.
7
Count on the Democratic Party to snatch defeat
from the jaws of victory - again.
3
I feel the race is a long way from over, even though I'm voting for Bernie on Tuesday (not going door to door because my Hickman County is so conservative they prefer our mud roads to more government and have the guns to prove it). I worry that on 3/17, Florida will label Bernie unacceptable with a last place finish. Warren wins every debate Bloomy is in and I think she is set up better than all the other non-bernies. She didn't go to russia to honeymoon on and on. If she can be in 2nd by the end of April, she can call on all the anti-bernie statements and also pitch her medicare for all plan to his base to have an outside shot at the nomination. Bloomy is such a joke, I guess we should get over all the rapes harvey wienstein did in NYC during bad joke mike's time.
1
The Dem party is not devouring itself. The Dem Soc party is hatching out if it. The Dems are today's Whigs, an anachronism.
1
Devour? Well maybe you have forgotten the last 2016 debates by repubs where they were comparing male genitalia re size of hands and calling each other by names. Trump made a fool of himself and still he was elected by the russians and Bernie disaffected, as well as misinformed duped midwesterners!! I don't know who will emerge but I will leave the presidential slot blank if a nealy 80 yr with angry persona, and his followers and don't forget a damaged heart is the nominee who is not even a dem. Really, get over cannabalism and worry about the feast who infests the oval office.
2
What did Obama say about 'circular firing squads'?
2
Even with all the fireworks of the "debate" Bernie suffers more damage from the Corporate desperation of the Media to have somebody else run. Last time around, they ignored him to death; this time they are always denigrating him in any way possible. Bernie has been tested. He has the figures, if you listen for the whole pitch, not just damn it as "something for nothing" or " too expensive", both knee-jerk reactions and not directed at his specific plans (Yale research plan anyone?). Ideas that were center/left during the 50's are now reducing the mainstream media to pale reflections of Faux Noise.
4
Are these “debate” formats really the best way of selecting a President? Do they measure those qualities that make a good President?
I think that both parties need to rethink how candidates are presented to the public?
And, yes the Democrats looked terrible last nigh.
The constant shouting and talking over people that came from all corners made it very difficult to focus on any one theme or issue but Pete was by far the worst. He would not stop asserting himself into other people's time.
2
Truth be told, the Democratic Party, for years infected by the left, now is thoroughly collectivist and socialist. Otherwise, Bernie would not have been allowed to run in its primaries. What irks the other democratic candidates is that their ideology no longer remains under cover.
2
So here's the product of the distraught, post debate dream I had last night. Sanders and Biden, as the "elder statesmen" join hands to announce their mutual withdrawal and (having achieved agreement from Sherrod Brown to step in and run) throw their mutual weight and support behind him. The remaining Dem candidate scufflers fall in line behind Brown - with his assurances of assembling and administration "teams of rivals" prominently including them and their best ideas - and away we go on a likely trajectory to save the United States of American from Trumpism and its supporting Trumpublican Party.
I've got news: The election will not be decided by the people who watched the debates, op-ed columnists and certainly not by the people of South Carolina who will go with Trump. It will be decided by voter turnout, ie., the marginal voter, the economy, and whether Corona Virus remains a problem. I'm hoping the next debate has no more than 3 or 4 participants. Klobuchar, Styer will be gone, followed by mayor Pete and either Warren or Biden or both. It is likely that we will have to decide between a Democratic Socialist, a former Republican billionaire or a malicious, autocratic and incompetent incumbent.
2
The simple (but unlikely) way out of the mess is for all but the top two moderates coming out of Super Tuesday to drop out, and for those two to make a unity ticket. EG Joe/Pete or Joe/Amy or Mike/Pete or Mike/Amy (Joe/Mike doesn't work as neither would accept VP). Whether Warren and Steyer stay in after ST is irrelevant, they are getting no delegates and wasting money. Its Bernie or a moderate compromise ticket.
I found it unwatchable and quit after an hour. Why do the candidates collaborate with MSM outlets like NBC, CNN, and CBS to produce these gotcha-fests? Do other countries choose their leaders this way?
Between the frenetic, hyperactive formats of the commercial media and the dullness of PBS, there has to be an alternative. I suggest C-SPAN, which is a bright light in our otherwise generally subpar broadcast-media universe. Or, let's have RT or Al-Jazeera host one, as a bold experiment!
4
I can't stand Bernie Sanders - even his voice grates on me. But I concede that he certainly is conviction driven - he honestly cares about Americans and understands that unless you are upper middle class or higher, the American dream is largely unachievable for most people without some help with essentials such as education, healthcare, child care, etc. So I may dislike him, but if he is the Democrats' nominee, I'm voting for him. But at this point I'd vote for Big Bird over Trump.
6
Is Bernie a better option than Trump, probably, but he shouldn't be President. Young people love him because they believe he's going to give them free stuff, and that he's going to open the borders to their relatives and give them free stuff too (that may sound politically incorrect, but it's true). The country is already 20 trillion dollars in debt, how is it going to pay off the deficit and then pay for all the extra trillions Bernie wants to spend? Billionaires can't fund it all so he will have to raise taxes on the middle class. How do you think that's going to go over with the American people and the Congress who depends on their votes. He'd be lucky to get the ACA back to the original form of Obamacare with an added public option. Bernie and his "bros" are in for a rude awakening, if he ever makes it to the WH.
5
“Probably”? You lost me right there.
1
@Citizen Morally and ethically, yes Bernie would be better.
@Guy
Question: What do you think the country spent $23.7 trillion on, and do you feel you got something out of it?
Do you realize that the "free" stuff you rail against would also benefit you, and actually get you something in exchange for all that debt you're worried about paying off?
No matter who is elected, what makes you think your middle class taxes aren't going to go up anyway to pay for that deficit? Doesn't it make sense to trade something in return?
1
Intellectually, I understand where Bernie is coming from, and find him in many ways to be the most honest candidate. The problem is that most people do not have a grounding in the debates surrounding socialistic thought. Even Marx at one point wrote that he was not a Marxist in the way people were interpreting his work.
Bernie is not a Marxist Revolutionary, and his goal is not communism. Sadly, I do not think its possible today to have an actual dialogue where his opponents are not going to seek cheap shots and label him a communist. He is asking people to think, at a time when most politicians want you to do anything but.
I think he needs to realize that for most, socialism is an emotionally laden word that has been demonized in the American political discourse. It does not mean the same thing to him, as it does to many others and he needs to come to grips with that.
He should cloak himself in the language used by FDR, and push himself as a new democrat who wants to improve the lives of all citizens and to curb some of the excesses of our present system which is anything but a market economy. You can not have a properly functioning market economy when most of the players in it are consumed with gaming the system to ensure they get and maintain outsized profits. What we have is not the ''hand of God'' ensuring the optimum outcome for all. Bernie is trying to point that out
5
I was not sure whether what we observed in Las Vegas was a debate or a rugby match. Last night in South Carolina, the answer was clear.. it was a college dormitory food fight. Thank you John Belushi. What concerns me most about Bernie Sanders is not as much his positions on issues as it is his unwillingness to even listen to any other viewpoint.
4
I’m pinning my hopes, few as they are, on Biden getting great results in SC and from hereon. Or if not Biden, any of the other moderates. Anyone but Bernie. I loathe him almost as much as I do Trump. Please, candidates: drop out if you’re not in the top two of Democrats (not counting Spoiler Bernie). We cannot allow him to destroy our effort to get Trump out.
3
If it's going to be Sanders, then Democrats -- all of them, including the other candidates and their supporters -- need to stop attacking each other and get behind him and stay behind him.
Otherwise you get more Trump.
8
@LauraF
There is no evidence that the supporters of candidates other than Sanders would not vote for him if he were the nominee. This non-Sanders supporter will certainly vote for him if he is the nominee.
There is lots of evidence that we do have to worry about the opposite case. In 2016, 10+ percent of Sanders voters voted for he who shall not be named (mathematically two votes for him), and another 10+ percent voted for a third party candidate (e.g., Stein) or stayed home (mathematically one vote for him). As for 2020, studies tell is that about 17 percent of his supporters are now telling us that they won't vote for the nominee if it is not Sanders, and another 30 percent are saying that they have not yet decided whether they will. If probably won't take much to change the November outcome. In 2016 the number of Sanders voters who voted for Trump was 2 to 6 times larger than Trump's margins of victory in the swing states.
2
@Robert
//There is no evidence that the supporters of candidates other than Sanders would not vote for him if he were the nominee.
Maybe you forgot about Obama v. Hillary, and how her voters chose to vote McCain instead. Or maybe you forgot that she barely did any rallies or events for him, and then complained that Bernie didn't support her enough - despite the fact that he did twice as many events for her as she did for Obama, and set foot in places she never deigned to visit.
The Third Way Democrats are for nobody other than themselves. Moderates are always sure they're right and everyone else is always wrong.
@Viv
Thank you for your reply. Neither Clinton nor Obama are candidates this year. In that light, how is your comment pertinent?
1
How is this any different from the way Buttigieg or Bloomberg have been treated in other debates? If Democrats dont eviscerate the only non-Democrat on the stage, the RNC will be happy to oblige. The real question is why hasnt Sanders been vetted by the media, especially outlets like the NYTimes, which have national influence? Sanders on gun control. Sanders' millionaire hypocrisy, etc..
Sanders comments about Cuba were chilling. Sure, the Castro revolution did some great things when it first secured power, like Sanders proposes to do if his "revolution" wins in November. Sanders fails to acknowledge that the Castro revolution failed later. Is ths his blueprint? Does he blame the US for the failure of the Castro revolution? What does Sanders' activities in the 1960s tell us about his true intentions? What does the rabidity of his supporters to any dissention say about governing differently from any other authoritarian revolution.
We know what authoritarian socialism does to countries. Sanders' and his supporters have given me zero comfort that they are any different.
5
@Mack Trump supports authoritarians. Bernie wants to model his Democratic Socialism in line with Scandinavian social democracies like Norway.
2
@Panthiest Except he holds up Cuba as a model and the US is not homogenous like Nordic, or in general European, countries.
Then he should call himself a social democrat, not a democratic socialist. Ask Bernie if he believes in capitalism and if the answer is anything other than a resounding yes, then he does not aspire to the Nordic model.
"Sanders handled the attacks the right way: He explained his positions and asked, rhetorically, are they radical? Universal child care and pre-K? Higher taxes on millionaires and billionaires, health care for all, concrete steps to address climate change? The answer is no, they aren’t."
2
Thomas Friedman hopes that the Dems running for president can form a national unity ticket. They maybe can if they don't first devour themselves, as Frank Bruni fears they are doing now. The CBS moderators last night did succeed in a debate structure than enabled a ratings-friendly brawl. The moderators permitted - no encouraged - the candidates to attack and talk over each other. Friedman seems to have forgotten that each candidate thinks they should be the one to fill the one chair that is open in the Oval Office. None of them announced their candidacy for a cabinet position. Friedman ought to be suggesting how the Dems can come together after they have chosen a single presidential candidate. In the meantime, they may need a doctrine of just war, or how to fight fairly now, before they try to unite their own party and our country.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/25/opinion/democratic-primary-candidates.html?searchResultPosition=1
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/26/opinion/democratic-debate-south-carolina.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
3
I watched the debate and was embarrassed for the Democratic Party. Why are the moderators even there? Why do they not enforce the rules? The atmosphere looked like a middle school lunch room. Here’s an idea: If the candidates speak over their allotted time or blatantly interrupt other candidates CUT their microphone and leave them waving their arms. Can we not have a reasoned, orderly debate about the issues at hand?
2
It's time to ditch the debate.
Even as they are under constant attack by the current administration, the major networks cannot resist the allure of prime time ratings. TV networks are staging debates that look and sound like the game shows they have become.
Assuring each candidate an equal and uninterrupted time-span to respond to the same questions would better inform the electorate.
But if contests are what keep viewers engaged, maybe we should consider a variation of the competitive cooking format:
Give each candidate the same topics and the same amount of time to craft responses. After drawing lots to determine the order of presentation, each candidate is then allowed the same amount of time to deliver a response.
This could be done in three or four rounds during one evening stretch, giving the network time for its revenue-generating commercials. Percussive anthems and floodlights optional.
Each round might present three issues to all candidates. Candidates could choose to comment on one, two, or all of those presented; the time allowed to each candidate would be identical.
More like Food TV? Sad to say, yes. But less of a food fight.
3
The hysteria among mainstream public figures ever since Senator Sanders began a campaign for the presidency in the last election is really to be expected. The gatekeepers of our society spent a lot of time, energy and resources demonizing socialism for 100 years and yet the American people lived up to their reputation for independent thinking and showed themselves largely immune when the appropriate occasion arrived. Now, given last night's embarrassing performance, why not try a little thought experiment. Remove Sanders from the stage and look around at who is left standing there. Anyone excited at the prospect of those who remain leading the country?
4
@Vincent Amato - I’m not seeking excitement from my president. If I wanted excitement, I’d look at kitten videos. And I’d LOVE it if Bernie were not only removed from the stage but gone home forever. It’d be a real gift to the Democratic Party and a real blow to Trump and Putin and Bernie’s enormous ego. He is sworn to disrupt and destroy the only political party that has given this country the social safety net programs we have. PLEASE GO AWAY, Bernie!
1
The Democrats have a tough road ahead to convince people to vote for them given ho well the economy is doing.of course no credit is given to the strong and growing economy Obama handed Trump and little or no credit is given by the Democrats. i thought bernie did a good job answering the question about the economy, however his past remarks extolling the virtues of the Cuban Revolution simply hands Trump dynamite to blow him up with. Yes, some good came of it if you are willing to ignore the dictatorship that followed. There are times when Sanders fails to think strategically and this is one of those times. His answer on the Russian meddling in the 2020 election was also spot on. Let's keep our eye on the ball folks and do all we can to insure Trump doesn't serve another term, our country couldn't stand another 4 years of him.
1
I didn't enjoy the candidates ignoring the rules, nor did I enjoy Joe trying to decide whether or not to join them in in.
I didn't like the "I'm mad as heck" attitude on display. To some degree we've come to expect it from Sanders as part of his shtick, but it's always meant to be directed at "the billionaires" not at other Democrats. Biden just seemed like equal parts shouting at us and over the field.
Buttigieg needs to quit interrupting people, period. We don't have 20 candidates vying for 60 seconds, we have 2 hours in which everyone is given time to speak (assuming they don't waste it talking over each other).
I really like Warren's specific answers on how to get from point A to B. I think she would make a terrific president, and would seem a lot more likable if she too would stop the somewhat desperate attack lines as a means of grabbing attention.
This is the most impressed I've been with Steyer. I think like Bloomberg he suffered from a lack of political debate experience. I think he's gotten better every time. I fear it's just too much of an uphill battle for him, even with hundreds of millions to spend.
Klobacher had a great answer on housing. I think she does well highlighting specific plans, much like Warren. Also like Warren, I feel like a lot of her attacks reek of desperation and that turns off people looking for a leader.
Bloomberg is a Republican willing to adopt just enough liberal positions to get Democrats to listen.
The increasing vitriol and cheap shots at these debates tell us a lot about the character of the candidates. Maybe more than about their ideas. Last night was a scramble to the bottom for some.
The candidates and their campaign managers would well well advised to remember that one of them will eventually face Trump in the general election, and that they risk permanently damaging that candidate and the party.
Separately, why don’t the moderators have buttons on their desk which could be used to cut off the mike of candidates who are abusing the time limits?
2
To see why nominating Sanders would be a disaster for the Democrats just takes some simple math. To defeat Trump Sanders is counting on large numbers of young "Bernie or bust" voters to turn out and vote because he will not do well with independents and moderate Republicans and he knows that. Maybe the Bernie or bust crowd will turn out in large numbers, nobody knows until the actual election, but even if they do those new voters will not vote or any Democratic candidates for the Senate or House unless they have the seal of the approval from Bernie and AOC which means most will just vote for Bernie and nobody else. For anyone with any loyalty at all for the Democratic Party it makes sense to try to defeat Sanders in the primary. All of the other candidates have a chance of defeating Trump like Sanders does but they can help the Democrats win the Senate and House because they will get more voters who are willing to vote for Democratic Senate and House candidates. Democratic candidates need to pile on Sanders all they can to retain Democratic hopes for Congress.
3
Democrats are in trouble. Stayed up to watch... what did I see, incoherent policy ideas, scripted bickering and with the exception of Mayor Pete, lack of visionary governing philosophy for 21st century challenges. Never thought I'd think it, but on account of what Madiba said: Let's give Pete a chance.
1
The Democrats are searching for the one person that will defeat Trump in a debate. Unfortunately they are preparing for old tech. Sorry, the days of the “Lincoln Douglas Debates” to choose the next POTUS are gone. TV ads Facebook Lies and Foreign Interference will determine the Next POTUS.
Trump could be defeated by using his own words in visuals that would be run in TV and Facebook ads. The question is do you focus on 50, 100 or 1,000 different ads.
In the meantime the Democratic Party should fund independent studies to determine the actual Costs of the Progressive Agenda. It will be a difficult undertaking but actual numbers do not lie.
I think Bloomberg has the best shot at beating Trump. Bernie Sanders has no right to run given his cardiac disease. Coronary disease is a risk for both Sanders and Trump. Bloomberg addressed his coronary disease appropriately. He is status post stents over 10 years ago. The fact that Sanders let his heart disease progress suggest he will mismanage his candidacy and the US presidency if he wins.
3
For the Democratic Party; is this group of candidate the best they can do? By the way, Sanders and Warren should realize that there are many millionaires and billionaires that support liberal causes. Both of them should stop with the millionaire and billionaire mantras. How many people did Warren teach at Harvard Law School that became millionaires? Trump is going to have a field day with Bernie's comments about Castro. Finally, even though Bloomberg performed badly in the debates, he is the only one on the stage with a substantial resume of accomplishment. Buttigieg talks about his experience as mayor of a 100K person city. Bloomberg ran a 10 million plus person city for twelve years and created an international company.
4
I'd rather these wannabes were each obliged to write a manifesto of their proposed policy objectives. I don't need to watch food-fights to judge their character.
"Felt like a genuine freak out"? It WAS a " genuine freakout"! Stand back and look at the predicament the Democrats have. There is a Bernie and an "almost Bernie, but not Bernie" in the form of Elizabeth Warren. Then there are a group of more moderate folks that the most energetic parts of the party don't want.
There is nothing more frustrating than seeing a tragedy about to unfold and being powerless to do anything about it.
3
The theme of the moment is moving toward Sanders and it is becoming more and more likely he is the presumptive Democratic nominee for POTUS. This may well be the end result of the primary and convention process but in the end, will Sanders be able to secure enough votes to win enough states to secure the victory in November?
The red line running through the comments it that Sanders is better than Trump and he will save the country from complete ruination and self-immolation even though he is thoroughly and completely a hard-core socialist bordering on being a dedicated communist. This is not speculation, his history like a zebra’s stripes has not changed even though his recent language has moderated in praise of both.
Conversely the red line running through the other side is the same concerns about Sanders and that he will be the catalyst for complete ruination and self-immolation if elected and has the support of Congress to enact his agenda. The split at this point is almost 50/50 and it is apparent there will be no give and take so the nation can reach a middle ground. Although I do believe the voters will in the end reject the Sanders agenda because it is too radical.
“How do you eat an elephant?”. Answer, “One bite at a time”. Sanders’ agenda is to eat the elephant in one sitting, not spreading it out over a long period of time, thus forcing the public to digest it and suffer from nausea, heartburn and diarrhea. Definitely not a realistic approach.
2
Didn't last night prove it is time for a new vision for the Democratic party? Angry, loud, rude, and non-yielding just don't cut it anymore.
The younger generation has seen tremendous change in our world. From climate change to the advances in science and technology it is obvious we are progressing at a high speed.
We need new leaders and new ideas. One hard issue to experience in aging is knowing when to step aside and realize there are plenty of capable younger people.
We need to look forward, not backwards.
The DNC will have to double down if it wants to derail the Sander's nomination.
2
Everyone who is appalled, or aghast, or horrified, or whatever at this “debate” (which was poorly conceived and moderated) needs to take a deep breath. Way too much angst and hand wringing. This includes you, Frank. We will have a candidate. We need to check our egos at the door and vote in November.
4
Amen. Folks need to breathe, not one of the candidates said on that stage anything that isn’t being said across the country wherever Democrats are conversing with one another. The debate reflects the party. Is that so horrible? And we have got to work out our divisions. The moderators were terrible. But the first step to working out divisions is to try to get clear on what they are. Sheeesh with the hand-wringing.
1
The immaturity of the press (and CBS and The New York Times pundits) is showing and it is not pretty. Frank, I didn't read your column yet, but if it is like the others there is nothing worth reading. Please, newspeople, let's not deliver the 2020 election to Trump on a platter! Instead, report on the substantive content of the debate, repeat the content laden points made by various ones of the candidates, and STOP talking about style. There was much good and worthwhile content from Biden, Bloomberg, Buttigieg, Steyer, Klobuchar. Bernie was Bernie and Warren was Warren with a mean streak. Please. Stop reporting on the cat fight and please DO report that the key points we were reminded of were that we must win not only Presidency, but also House and Senate (Steyer, Biden, and Buttigieg repeatedly reminded us of this)! Also, please, DO criticize fellow reporters and CBS for their less than serious questions and weak to comic (if the stakes weren't so high) treatments of the policy points and consequences of the coming election.
3
David Leonard is exactly correct when he says the party leaders need to take charge of this mess. These "debates" (in name only) are a farce. The DNC was in no small part responsible for Hillary's loss in 2016 when Wikileaks released emails showing they were working to undermine Bernie's campaign. They're not doing any better this time. Bring on Barack, Jimmy, Adam (Schiff), and maybe even a couple of moderate former Republicans to strategize for the party. Dump the bumbling DNC which may well lead us into another four years of Individual No. 1.
1
Remember when all the Republican candidates ran last time and talked bad about Trump? Then Trump got the nomination and later said something like he could get away with shooting someone on fifth avenue? His supporters would follow him anywhere, even off an economic cliff.
Well Bernie has that kind of support too. He’s the only candidate on that stage who has passionate followers like Trump. Some even stayed home last time and did not vote for Hillary in spite of the tragic consequences of a Trump administration. Sound familiar? I suspect Trump supporters would stay home too if Trump wasn’t on the ticket.
I think the established Democratic Party and the media doesn’t want Bernie to happen. Dems can’t accept that their more established politics is over and they don’t want to give way to the Progressives who they see as a Tea Party like threat to their power.
The media doesn’t see that there is a burgeoning group storming to break into the Democratic Party. They simply seem flummoxed by the outcome of Progressives actually winning. Even in this Russian-controlled ballot world, there are still more Progressives than Trump supporters.
None of us know how Sanders running against Trump would turn out on November 3. Talk as much as you want about how Bernie would fail miserably. The rest of the Democratic candidates don’t have the number of passionate followers to get people to the polls. They would all fare worse.
@Sheela Todd - Yes, Bernie has that same kind of passionate - I’d say “fanatical” - followers as Trump has, and that’s one of the myriad reasons I can’t support him. I don’t want a cult leader to head our country. See what’s happened after three years with one cult leader and his True Believer supporters. Yes, Sanders is no Trump, but I won’t vote for another narcissist whose supporters feel he can do no wrong.
I loved when Bernie said, (I don't have the exact wording) "We need to be honest sometimes about the United States, we have taken over governments, and dictators have taken their place. And may I add, it's we who usually put that dictator in because we can control him with money. We just don't like the dictators we can't control and exploit. I am floored with Bernie's honesty because most of us with a brain really do understand the truth about what goes on, but no one dare speak of it, for various reasons, mostly to be able to make a living and not get shunned. We desperately need brutal honestly RIGHT NOW! or we die. Bernie could beat Trump, if the media got behind him.
2
Sanders sounded pretty good the night before at the CNN Town Hall. However, last night he looked ridiculous defending Fidel Castro ("really, really?). If Sanders is to win the general election, he has to give up his old love affair with Marxists. Don't get confused, I am not saying he is proposing Marxist policies now, but he has praised Marxist governments in the past and he needs to firmly denounce it now. Instead of trying to defend Castro's "brigades" he should pivot to the ideas in his campaign that will benefit Americans while keeping the economy largely capitalist. Otherwise, Trump will destroy him in a huge landslide.
3
It amazes me that the Sanders crowd continues to think anyone is going to look at the nuanced points they say Bernie is making about Cuba's literacy program or healthcare system. Aside from the fact that he's wrong about both (do you REALLY believe communist government propaganda, Bernie?!), exactly 0.000000003% of voters are going to look at either statement critically. What they're going to do is hear, "Bernie praised Castro" and that will be the end of it.
Here is the Republican playbook against Bernie in November:
1. He's a socialist. ("B-b-b-but he's a social democrat, like in Europe!" Guess what? Nobody cares.)
2. He wants to raise your taxes. Fact.
3. He wants to take your health insurance away. Fact.
4. He praised Castro. Fact.
5. He praised the Soviet Union. Fact.
6. He said the American dream is more likely to be realized in Venezuela than America. Semi-fact, but again, nobody is going to care.
He's a socialist that wants to raise your taxes and take your healthcare away. That's what your going to hear ad nauseum in the fall. And he will get crushed.
(And again, I can't repeat this point enough: if people do look at either statement critically, they will find he's wrong on both).
6
Senator Sanders is nothing more than a political living-fossil emerging from a time when a lot of younger Americans looked at the societies of the socialist countries as an attractive alternative to the system in the U.S. The Senator's responses to critics of his views is the same thing we heard back then, i.e., blame America first, and point to things like literacy programs and health care in order to direct attention away from the ugly parts of the socialist countries at the time. These are surprisingly simplistic for an accomplished national-level politician like the Senator is, and makes one wonder whether he really has a grasp of his own politics, or if he's never really left some decades-old bull session of socialist political dilettantes.
5
All this (very American) fear of "socialism" is rather hilarious! In most developed countries, Bernie Sanders would be a centrist and would represent the establishment. similarly, Obama (oh, so radical!) would definitely be a conservative. At the risk of providing the Republicans with ideas for their propaganda/misinformation Blitzkrieg offensive, I suggest we have a national contest to determine which definition/political party label or organizations' names containing the words "Socialist", "Socialism", "Socialized" and maybe even "Socialite" would scare Americans the most! Some possible submissions: Social Democracy? Democratic Socialism? (confused already?), Social Forces Front? (oh, warlike!), Victorian Socialist Party? (Aussie/reassuring with the word "Victorian" in it), (Bolivia) Movement Towards Socialism (not there yet!), Socialist and Liberty Party (No Cuban dictator here!), Libertarian Socialist Party (best of both worlds?), Democratic Social-Revolutionary Party (sounds dangerous!), Irish Republican Socialist Party (an American version could be confusing!), Initiative for Democratic Socialism, (Swedes working on it!) Social Democratic Workers Party (no managers allowed!), Committees of Correspondence For Democracy and Socialism (still writing about it?), Elite Social Society (an elitist Socialist conspiracy!). Many Americans may have been Socialists all along, they just did not know it until Bernie repeatedly defined it for them and they don't find it is radical!
3
Sanders is indeed scary, not because of anything he has done, but because of an accident of birth, No one has yet mentioned his religion, but the right will weaponize it, appealing to the very worst in too many of our citizens, while accusing him of being a “Commie”. This is not the moment for a social experiment, because everything, our country, is on the line, and if we lose? We all know the answer to that.
2
Amy is solid, but all she's proving is that she'll be a good, solid, hard-working vice-president. She doesn't have the ability or charisma to build a passionate movement, which is exactly what's needed and which only Sanders is providing. Everyone's hollering about his "socialism," but he's actually just a moderate European-style Social-Democrat politician who would be considered run-of-the-mill in Denmark, Norway, Sweden or Belgium. But in our hysterical country he's considered Karl Marx. Bernie needs to start pointing this out, which he used to, and stop talking about Cuba. Biden is old and loopy, but like grandpa he has some good days and a lot of bad days. Bloomberg continues to be....rich. Pete is an earnest Boy Scout who likes to spend too much time with the adults, not kids his own age. And Lizzie continues to be Lizzie; committed, intelligent, full of ideas which can change on a dime, razor-sharp, and just too unpleasantly snarky to get enough people behind her.
2
From what I could see, this debate was as noisy and confused as adoption day at the ASPCA.
I am surprised no one picked up on Biden's senior moment:
"150 million people have been killed since 2007 when Bernie voted to exempt the gun manufacturers from liability, more than all the wars, including Vietnam from that point on."
Not even close.
5
I'm not a member of any organized political party. I'm a democrat.
Will Rogers
"I like Bernie because he stays true to convictions" is starting to sound as nonsensical as "I voted for Trump to shake things up".
You know what also shakes things up? Cutting off your foot. It's useless as a good in and of itself.
"True to conviction" is also useless as a good in and of itself. You're basically voting for intransigence. Less talking about the meta and more talking and focusing on the actual conviction. I get you all probably support those too, but let's not lose focus here.
5
Frank, I used to look forward to reading your articles. Now, you’re just grumpy, and not helping the eventual Democratic nominee, by any means. I challenge you speak to candidate strengths - there are many of them. Thanks, and cheer up!
3
We have it backwards: we are hearing what each of the politicians would promise and forced to make a choice between them. That's putting it in the best light.
Suppose polling determined what people really want.
94% want Gun Background Checks, 79% want to allow Government to Negotiate Drug Prices, 78% want Students to have the Same Low Interest Rates as Big Banks, 77% want Universal Pre-Kindergarten, Raise the minimum wage (76% Gallup), Fair Trade that Protect Workers, the Environment, and Jobs (75%), End Tax Loopholes for Corporations that Ship Jobs Overseas (74%), End Gerrymandering (73%), 70% want M4A,
I'm pretty sure people want well maintained infrastructure as well. Politicians likely agree with this, but still do nothing.
People should determine the agenda, and politicians should be required to accomplish it. Politicians need to do tasks that the people demand. If they are not responsive to the people, it should be a lot easier to remove them.
What good is a government that does not respond to the people ?
http://gopiswrong.net/government.htm
1
My latest worst fears are coming to fruition and disgust with the Democratic Party grows each week.
I have voted in 11 presidential elections so understand that candidates always try to show how they are the best qualified.
But the true goal for this election has to be to end the current administration's reign .The fate of America rests on the outcome of this election! Every Dem candidate is qualified and would be better for the country than the incompetent and unqualified people who are in power now.
SO, why are the Dems continuing down this path?
We need them to come together in unity not tear each other apart and play right into the other side's hands...and I'm not just talking about the Republicans, but what ever foreign country is involved at this point.
I made a decision 4 1/2 yrs ago to relocate if what others considered was an impossible, ridiculous outcome occurred.
In January 2017 I did, although I'm still a US citizen and own a home in the States. I attend many political marches in protest of this administrations policies, call my elected officials and am donating to many Democratic Senate campaigns. I WILL vote for ANY candidate who ends up the Democratic nominee.
I fear that the Democratic Party is solidly on the way of snatching Defeat from Jaws of Victory with their behavior. I take no pride in this but I have not been wrong yet since that I watched that escalator descend back in June 2015.
PLEASE, Democrat candidates ..stop the infighting !!!!
The panic reflects the likely reality that 3-4 of these folks on stage last night were on the stage for the last time in this election cycle. We'll see in just 10 days, then in 30 days it's over. With Bernie's lead and massive movement at his side, Bloomberg and Steyer's money, those 3 guys plus perhaps Elizabeth might be standing on April fools day.
Both of my children (voters) and their tribes are with Bernie. I am supporting my kids and their future.
Do you recall the 17 Repubs on stage 4 years ago? Trump called them all childish names, was crude, rude and clearly ignorant (climate change a hoax?), his lies spilling over into the daily news, before the election. But you see, he conned 47% of the voters and still has them bamboozled.
I suggest everyone read Tom Friedman's op-ed in Tuesday's NY Times. I believe it's great idea and an antidote to trump's toxicity and his sycophants. Whoever the candidate is, tell America who 's on the team and let the American people vote for the team and the captain. I'd put any one of these folks up for Pres. with a terrific team. As Friedman suggests, they's crush trump in a landslide.
2
Don't you know that when you attack Bernie, yje people don't like it? Don't you know? Read below. Do you want Trump to win? Only Republican lites and the capitalist elite (that's you) don't like Bernie. Every body else rate him favorably, even some Republicans (read libertarians).
You are only hurting democrats, with Republicans (some of whom voted for Bernie in the Nevada primary) in the general election.
2
@dr. c.c. - Keep on attacking Bernie, Democrats! It’s way overdue. Many of us who can’t stand the nasty con man are hoping that some exposure of his character flaws and questionable practices will lead to the path back to VT before he succeeds in trashing our Party and ushering in more Trump destruction. Yes, many young people are THRILLED by his words. Those people who have lived through and seen more are far less enamored of his shtick. We know that if he is president, he will be ineffectual in getting his ideas made into law. And most likely he will lose the general election.
When the other major political party in this country supports a president who denigrates his own citizens because of race or ethnicity, who thinks it's okay to molest women, who makes fun of the disabled, who uses the office to enrich himself and his family, who panders to dictators and abuses the justice system to save himself and his cronies, I don't think it's the Democratic Party that is devouring itself.
2
You saw the debate before (Feb 19) talked abot how the first 15 minutes label the outcome. How you didn't see that debate as more divisive and self-devouring than last night's is beyond me. Maybe you couldn't write about two perspectives in the same punditry last week.
First, a President doesn't debate - that's not the job. S/He listens, asks intelligent questions, listens again, maybe converses about the decision to be made, and then decides.
That said, I have never watched a debate. Ever.
But this feeding frenzy that is going on is just proving the GOPs point that Democrats cannot govern. (assuming they think getting along on a debate stage is mandatory, disregarding the current disruptor-in-chief). This is nonsense, and we liberals look like fools. STOP!!! Everyone has heard your individual platforms already.
How about showing how to discuss a subject intelligently without stabbing one another.
Just a thought from someone sad that we'll be stuck with the Trumpeter for another 4 years. IF he leaves after THAT.
Bernie Sanders knows that the only weapon Trump has is character assassination. Trump has no coherent policies and really stands for nothing but his own profits, money is his only value.
Democrats will lose if they are no more than Republicans light, to just continue the miserable right-wing extremist policies we can stick with Trump, we deserve no better.
1
i knew it would be like this; and yet so disappointed -
with the loudest carnival barker in the white house---
( the impeached president who wasn't removed-)
what do we get from the democrats but a circus -
this whole system is out of order; too much money, too many players, too many billionaires , too many egos... too many vicious attacks ... its ugly... and this is just the democrats slice of the pie...
I'm glad Mr. Bruni remains optimistic.. I'm not...
I agree: they were too aggressive and vociferous!
Apart “Uncle” Mike Bloomberg. He has envisioned a strict law limiting the use of guns to private citizens, but it time for him to draw out his fictional revolver to calm down the other debating “pistoleros”.
He has got many silver bullets in his belt. One, would be showing the People – attending the next debate or watching his pervasive ads – that he can mentally afford to be more to the “left” than Bernie or the others bickering ones on that podium.
For left, I mean a charismatic leader who really cares about the citizens of his loved country: and you can’t love your Nation, unless you care about “all” citizens in need, otherwise you are a Nationalist.
Therefore, on healthcare, Mike – who, at his age, experiments daily himself the limits of our living - should propose a just and affordable plan for all citizens.
Another sketched and stunning plan, should be the one on Global Warming fight.
Now, there is no way out for this, if big taxes are not imposed on the richest part of the nation and on big corporations the likes of Facebook (devoid of WhatsApp), Amazon, Google…
Usa is so brimming with such intergalactic conglomerates that the needed money could be raised with a plain and simple law.
Mike has realized that money has a real humanistic “value” if it is used for good causes.
A leader capable to express such an empathy will be chosen by the people to lead the United States and be a good example to the World.
1
“There’s always enough time until there isn’t.”
Hobbes
1
Beware the polls Bernie, beware the polls.
2
Trump favors Putin over our own people and has private meetings with him, yet we are supposed to freak out about Senator Sanders praise for a literacy program in Cuba?
Unbelievable.
2
Mr. Bruni, You have to grab Thomas Friedman and both of you must gather all these candidates together and tell them they better get their act together.
Both of you can do this, must do this and get the Democrats focused on one mission - to flush Trump into oblivion on November 3, 2020.
1
Can we get Cory Booker back?
The biggest losers of the debate were the moderators, not the candidates. They lost control of the panel in the first few minutes, and had no effective techniques to get it back. They also asked far more questions to some candidates than to others, which is hardly fair. (Why so many to Bloomberg?) The audience added to the circus atmosphere with what often sounded like thugs paid by Bloomberg to cheer his dull answers and boo Bernie's animated ones. My suggestion: Bring back the League of Women Voters as moderators and dump the talking heads.
I couldn't watch. I had to turn away. Moreover, I wasn't learning anything. These cluster arguments are frustrating and unproductive! The debate format was wrong, and the moderators were very weak. Still, the candidates behaved poorly, too. Their desperation and egos are showing, and it's ugly and repulsive. I feel ashamed to be an American. People have criticized Bloomberg for his poor performance, but it occurs to me that almost any normal person (someone who has an identity outside of political office) would be confounded about how to behave in these settings: if you embrace common decency, you're run over. If you pull out the knives, you look bloodthirsty and craven. These debates have made me not like Pete B. and Amy K. just based on their interactions with one another. They have let their egos and competitiveness with one another overcome their better judgment. Their immaturity is showing. Warren, Biden and Sanders all know that their ages mean this is their final chance to achieve personal goals. To my eyes, none of the three can claim public service as their motives right now. I despise Donald Trump, but these are my choices? I'd consider relinquishing my American citizenship, but I don't know where to go...
Here we go again, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. It may already be too late but the DNC should fire Tom Perez, put James Carville in charge and have a Come-to-Jesus talk with all the egotistical presidential wannabes.
2
@Christy
Correct. The worst decision Obama ever made was supporting Perez for DNC head.
2
Who is managing the Debate Forums for The Democratic Party;
Whomever this person or persons are doing so are doing a very
ruinous job for the entire Democratic Party;
The Oxford Style of a Debate Forum should always be used.
Refer to The Doha Debates moderated by Tim Sebastian.
I fear that the US commercial media is using our debate
stage as if it could be like a Tabloid Carnival.
So STOP THIS outrage by the media/ print media/ and internet media/ and social media.
You The New York Times ; stop this media circus...YOU TOO
are very responsible for correcting your coverage....this
is gaining you advertising dollars...well quit playing this awful
game.
3
One upside ... candidates may be ready for the visceral dog fight with trump ...
1
I hope our defeatist attitude will not become self-fulfilling prophecy. There is actually no way in heck that blue should not prevail over Trump in November. He did not win the popular election originally, and he really should have nothing but his tiny hard-core cult to vote for him. Trump should lose handily, and we got our cross-hairs on Russia. We have their number.
Trump is laughing so hard. Can't you hear him?
1
Anyone who votes to elect millionaires (and now billionaires) has zero moral authority to whine that the government doesn't care about working people.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
3
The GOP's primaries in 2016 were just as nasty and ugly, if not more so. Let's not exaggerate the Democratic party's melee for the sake of a column.
Frank, Drop the rancor and your fits of apprehension. Read Thomas Friedman's piece in yesterday's NYT (Team of Rivals) and then try if you can to offer opinions that move the Democratic Party and our nation toward a constructive solution.
3
Oh Great America, beacon on the hill, hope of the world, land of the free...! You are now afraid of an old man who wishes you to afford justice to thy citizens, health and education, decent lives of the working men and women?
Sad days indeed to not listen to his calls, to not recognize the crushing truth of his words, and to succeed where other nations have succeeded!
American media, get a life, or else hit the road!
2
I gave up and watched a basketball game.
Cable TV provided the perfect forum for Donald Trump to sell his candidacy. The stations loved the show, he mastered the medium.
These debates, advertised with virtually the same hype as a WWE cage match free for all, are made for Reality TV events. There is merit to one on one debates as a vetting process. But vetting is not the purpose of these spectacles.... it is betting on who will
be the survivor of the “Race for White House”.
As I am typing this I got a CNN bulletin saying “no one knocked Bernie Sanders out in last nights debate.” Literally, they really reported that. Why isn’t Mike Tyson running? He could deliver a knockout blow. But after all these bloodbaths, Bernie may be the last man standing....but does anyone have an understanding of what his Medicare for All really costs or whether it can only exist on Fantasy Island? Do we really know the experience, record, policies of any candidate other than superficially? All wrestling matches have villains for the fans to hiss and boo. The debates have the Battling School Marm scolding midget wrestler Bad Boy Bloomy. In the real world both Bloomberg and Warren have extensive experience, records and policy positions. It would take in depth reporting to educate the voters. BORING !
TV presents itself as providing a public service to voters to evaluate the candidates. In reality the voters are being entertained...and that is how the stations make their money.
Stop the carnage of these debates, Democrats!
1
Where is Sherrod Brown now that we really, really need him?
well Susan Sarandon, there's always Bernie 2024...if there's anything left.
1
Pete’s photo is kind of funny. It looks like he’s seeking divine intervention to save his desperate, floundering campaign.
1
The current "debate" system is like an ouroboros - eating itself alive. The debate structure is foreign to most people and it doesn't help define the candidates.
We are looking for leadership, not esoteric debaters.
In the future (if we have one) require each candidate to write a maximum of 20 proposals that would be the cornerstones of their administration. Require that the proposal have a start and end time, a fiscally responsible process for funding, and a description of the benefit for the country as a whole and for individual voters.
Distribute the proposals to all the candidates and require that they produce a response to each of the other candidate's proposals. Give each candidate a hour of air time and to defend their positions and to question the responses of their opponents.
Once each candidate has had their shot at defending their proposals give the country a vote. To vote you have to submit proof of voter registration and have access to a computer or smart phone to register your vote.
Take the bottom half out of the process and start over again until you have two candidates left - then go to the convention.
Assuming that each candidate would buy air time to advertise their performance, the networks get share of revenue, it makes no one state no more important than the other, allows the public see the candidates as decision makers, and ends the endless rounds of otherwise mature and intelligent candidates fighting like school children to be called upon.
To solve the interruptions and talking over each other, a stage should be developed where all candidates are encapsulated in glass debates tubes -- they can listen in these tubes, but not be heard. When the moderators want to hear them, they press a button and the tube is lifted and they can speak and be heard.
2
The debate was a debacle. There were no winners – at all. The moderators did a very poor job in trying to get an informed consent from the voters. No meaningful information. It was a shouting/one-liners contest.
Then let it devour itself! When the fray is over, we will have a more progressive agenda. Remember HRC changing her position on a slew of policies? That was all because of the flailing arms of Bernie Sanders.
Bernie currently has the support of a wide swath of the American people, just like Trump did.
The problem is, Bernie could lose the support of, not just the democratic elite, but many retirees (our largest voting population) because the fear of financial insecurity is stronger than the desire for a more equitable society.
Trump's stock market 'was' doing well because of pure speculation. A Sander's stock market could plummet for the same reason, bottoming out retirement portfolios. Trump will say this repeatedly, you'll see.
So Bernie, please, for the sake of your agenda, please start altering your rhetoric. Make friends with a few billionaires and get them to stump for you. Tell America that you want businesses to kick butt, that you want the stock market to do well, and that your billionaire friends actually want to pay more in taxes (many do!).
Bernie, tell America that having a single payer is the first step toward bringing prices down, improving access to care, and creating a more unified system to allow better diagnostic tools, treatment plans and improved outcomes. Covering 300 million people will lead to more jobs in healthcare, not less! Tell them legalizing marijuana will lead to new tax income streams that will fund all those programs!
Bruni's casual statement that Trump is ignorant is simply ridiculous! It takes an immense amount of knowledge to get anything built in New York City, much less skyscrapers!
By the way, how's that whole "Basket of Deplorables" thing working out for you?
What's really interesting is how out of touch the NY Times columnists' rankings of each candidate's debate performance is with the rankings contained in this comments section. I guess that when the debate format is complete chaos, the resultant rankings are meaningless.
1
Last night I realized for the first time how ugly Elizabeth Warren is. Her viscous attack on Bloomberg claiming he told a pregnant woman to kill her baby was beyond the pale. She claims she knows the woman. Sure she does. I guess you can say just about anything if you’re on the national debate stage. These debates are just one more mistake the Dems continue to make.
5
I wonder where Frank Bruni will go. To the Republicans? He talks about the circular firing squad, and then shoots the circle from outside.
2
Amy/Pete!!
Less than a debate, or even a shouting match, it looked to me like a hazing ritual, a repulsive rite de passage which everyone hated to have to go through. Only Bloomberg tried to act as if he wasn’t down in the pit with the others.
1
The biggest looser in last night's debate was Thomas Friedman - who wrote either the greatest piece of SciFi/Fantasy or the most clueless opinion piece just before the debate.
Their is no chance that the party can glue itself together - that Sanders will work with Bloomberg and Mayor Pete, that Kobachar will work with Mayor Pete, that Warren will work with Bloomberg. And no chance a republican will every work in a Sanders administration - let alone richy-rich Romney. Zero point zero.
So how do you bring the party together - and stitch together the Obama coalition? Most importantly - how do you bring back the record minority vote when the leadership is a bunch of 80 year old white people.
Anyone else find Buttigeig’s constant butting in and talking over others offensive?
3
I'm not clear why any Democrats have any angst about the "Kill It" flippant comment by Bloomberg to an employee of his firm when "Kill It' is in the platform of the Democrat Party, even if the fetus has been born.
Is this bad just because he's the employer and she's the employee, or is this bad because he's a male and she's a female?
If Liz Warren wants to attack the patriarch and hierarchy, she should probably start wit the matriarchy and hierarchy that is literally destroying the Democrat Party..which is Nancy Pelosi's outright refusal to share one iota of her power (and the power held by her 75 year old Generals ) with the upstart Progressives and Populists in the Democrat Party.
If indeed the Democratic Party is supposed to be democratic...isn't that supposed to represent a system where all the people in a hierarchy have a seat at the table instead of just a chosen few who have then rebuked any power sharing requests?
Seems like this is a recipe for a revolution and the pressure building up in the Democrat Party is being disguised by general hatred and vitriol towards the man in the White House.
Seems like before you think about fixing "OUR" house..the D's should first fix "YOUR" house.
Time to shove Pelosi and her Generals aside.
They are...the problem for the Democrat Party.
Solve that problem first..and maybe..just maybe..America might give you the White House again.
Bernie is awful for America
3
You know Frank, as a conservative Republican I have been reading the NYT opinion writers and taking my lumps for almost 4 years, as the newspaper ruthlessly attacked Trump from every possible angle. Now I am enjoying it! You are all in a state of panic and attacking Democrats! How sweet it is!
I also started reading your readers' comments and I realized something else. Almost without exception, those who comment are liberals like you. They all hate Trump and only disagree to some extent on tactics and which candidate can beat the Evil One. I never see a single comment from a fellow conservative. What does this say? Either the NYT has almost no conservative readers, or those few you do have don't care enough to comment on a single opinion piece. Bottom line: YOU ALL ARE IN A SELF REINFORCING FEEDBACK LOOP! You are not attracting anyone outside your tight little liberal band of Trump haters! Hey, keep it up! Your "opinions" have resulted in Trump getting stronger, and the Democrats running around in circles!
1
Last night was pathetic. Any of these candidates is infinitely better than that idiot Trump, but they will lose if they don't get their acts unified against him with firm policy positions.
Every single negative clip from yesterday, and there are so many, will be weaponized by Trump. He, of course, has infinitely more than any Democrats, but he has the backing of a mindless cult of followers who now believe that for him it's ok to be a sleezbag, xenophobe and tyrant. How sad to see such ignorance in this nation.
1
"Klobuchar joined the fray late but with no less exuberance."
Eh..."exuberance" is not quite the right word here, Bruni..."zeal" is what you mean...
2
yes, supporting the most popular politician in the country is political suicide.
these people are IDIOTS. they want another 4+ years of trump, its good for their stock portfolios and thats really all fauxgressive leaders care about at the end of the day.
ALL OF THEM - including warren - are bought and paid for corporate stooges. why should i trust any of them to have my best interests at heart when theyre literally paid millions to do the opposite?!
we have a potential DICTATOR in office right now and democrats think bernie is the apocalypse?!?!
1
Americans are used to idiotic debates. Only the last debate will really matter, the one that occurs just before the Nov election. Last night was merely verbal mud wrestling.
Seriously who cares? There is only one thing we have to do. Show up and vote blue no matter who from top to bottom.
Doesn't matter who at this point it really doesn't. None of the Democratic candidates are traitors to this country. Trump can't say that. None of the Democratic candidates are going to shred our constitution and pervert our laws. Trump is doing that.
If anyone stays home and pouts because their favorite didn't get picked or decides to "protest" vote after 3 years of Trump then you're a moronic child.
We have the numbers we just need to show up and vote every single worthless Republican out of office. Don't get wound up in this media incited dog and pony show.
Going for the Jugular of the leading candidate was unsuccessful, because the anatomy was different.
2
OMG! We may end up living in a country as Socialist as... Canada! The horror, the horror...
6
@Abraham
I wish your comment was highlighted as a NYT Pick.
1
In the Democratic debate last night in South Carolina, Senator Sanders said this:
“In Israel, through Bibi Netanyahu, you have a reactionary racist who is now running that country.”
It seems odd that Mr. Sanders thinks that comments such as this will help him get elected President of the United States.
4
"Blue no matter who!" is a suicide pact for Democrats.
1
Sometimes I think Sanders takes positions so counter intuitive that I wonder if he has a death wish as a candidate for President of the United States. I get the feeling he rather likes the role of the noble loser, willing to go down fighting for absurd redistribution of wealth nonsense than actually reaching out to persuadable moderate voters.
Workers owning the companies they work for? Why not put out some resuscitated "Workers of the World, Unite!" bumper stickers. Free health care for illegal immigrants? Geez, don't wait for Trump idiots to accuse you of overwrought left wing fever dreams; do it for them! Class warfare? Tell Mike Bloomberg he has no right to great wealth that he earned and was not handed to him by a rich KKK parent.
And, don't get me going on that disgustingly shrill beating of a dead horse put on by Elizabeth Warren.
1
I would have cast my vote to the candidate who would have had the guts to disengage with this charade, fools folly, absurdist act and walked off the stage.
The DIms are done. No leadership. No real agenda. Nothing to offer. Sad. Very sad. Depressing.
For years now all I've listened to is how ignorant and stupid Republicans are. And now democrats intend on nominating a fan of Fidel Castro, to beat Trump. Who is out of who's mind?
1
And the Democrats’ circular firing squad is now in full swing.
1
Oh, Bruni, get over yourself. It was a healthy debate and it's over-sensitive people like you who see the sky falling. Only difference between you others is you have a national platform. You are pouring negative energy into the ether. You are your ilk will be why Democrats lose the election. (Which we won't!)
3
And remember, children, this is the MOST IMPORTANT election of our lifetime. Again...
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
1
Nihilistic Suicide on a nation-wide scale. That's all it is.
Yeah, they beat up on Bernie, but are they wrong? He will lose to Trump -- big time -- and knock off down ballot Dems in the process. Meanwhile, he and his hard core, leftist "base" are taking an axe to the Democratic Party. "Better not try to stop Bernie because we'll bring the house down." Of course, many Democratic leaders are in a "panic," because they are responsible enough to understand how dangerous and disastrous it will be to hand Trump another four years.
What's more, people in the media should look in the mirror, instead of blaming the Dems. As of a week ago, in two nutty "caucuses" and one small state primary, Bernie had won a grand total of 45 delegates out of nearly 4000 pledged delegates to be chosen. Yet the media in a loud chorus instantly proclaimed him the "frontrunner" and launched into endless commentaries about how he is probably "unstoppable." Look in the mirror, Frank.
1
Same thing happened with the GOP in their debates. Name calling, juvenile insults, Rubio, Cruz, et al. proclaiming themselves as never Trumpers. Trump wins the nomination, all of them change their tune, and Trump's elected. Demos will do the same.
1
Yes, last night's debate was a jumble of direct attacks and vague promises from the candidates.
But in that mess of words, Bruni and other commentators missed an important point from Warren: the difference between herself and Sanders. As a volunteer for Warren, people often ask me what's the difference between those two progressives. I've been saying Warren picks up on where Sanders leaves off: she's a whiz legislator and an expert on bankruptcy law and she uses these skills to get to is to a more equal society. Last night Warren said as much and highlighted a specific example. Both Sanders and Warren had a chance to respond to the financial crisis of 2008. While not even in elected office at that time, Warren nonetheless pushed through the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau which, in its first six years, clawed back $12 B for victims of the loan industry. Sanders did not capitalize on that crisis to score a win for the victims of fraud.
So here was a substantive statement on why one candidate bests the other. That is a use of the debate stage that is positive in that it provides necessary information for voters.
1
I wish we did elections like they do in some European countries: 6 weeks before election, literature comes out on the candidates. There are no expensive commercials, big TV time, buses and planes with candidates' names on them traveling around. Those who are interested read the literature and positions and make a decision. It is not about who has the most money and the biggest show.
U.S. elections have become a circus and entertainment with whomever has the biggest war chest most likely to stay in the campaign. Look at all the candidates of color who ran out of money and had to drop out....not because they were bad candidates, but because they could not afford it anymore.
At last night's debate, I saw the light. I saw how Bernie might be able to do it.
It was encapsulated in Bernie's declaration that his campaign was going to get a record turnout, that his candidacy was going to bring people to the polls that have never come before.
Bernie isn't a candidate, he's a movement.
3
@McKay I favor Bernie Sanders over all other candidates with the exception of Elizabeth Warren. I hope your assessment turns out to be true considering that, so far in the primaries, turnout has been significantly less than 2008; it seems that Bernie speaks on turnout to be his biggest strength yet the results show his success lies with him broadening his coalition.
@Josway Good points. I didn't know those figures, but apparently he did broaden his coalition in Nevada. Will it be enough in South Carolina? And will the turn out spike in the general election? Anyway, that's my hope.
Just heard on the radio his events in Texas were packed to the gills.
As usual, Frank is right on. But the mayhem we witnessed last night was all but inevitable given the situation. Seven candidates trailing Bernie given two hours to fight for precious airtime and that critical "viral meme" in the last debate before Super Tuesday. The political equivalent of seven scorpions in a jar. In ten days, three or four may exit. That might make it easier to have a more sensible debate. But it may be too late for the moderates.
I was hoping they all would have announced a joint pledge to offer the other candidates cabinet-level positions in their administration, should they be the nominee. Something big like that was called for. I was hoping they all would have said they would protect the others from the depredations of Trump and his pro-Russian interests, especially Sanders who has unfairly benefited from the illegal Trump Ukraine scheme as much as Biden has been unfairly harmed by it. I was hoping each of them would have said once again that any of them were infinitely better than he who shall not be named. Am I mistaken or is it only Sanders who has refused to say so?
1
A debate or two is good. This long series of debates just seems to create a platform for divisiveness, and hurts all Democrats in the long run. There should be fewer of these debates.
3
It's probably just me, but I'm worn down to the bare bone.
Between the insane stuff Trump has been able to get away with coupled with these Democratic contenders being all over the place without a consistently clear message, I feel almost hopeless for this country.
I really wish these "magnificent seven" should all sit down, in a room, with just themselves, and truly hammer out some kind of consensus or even understanding what is best for this country rather than to merely hear themselves talk and talk and talk and yet say nothing.
I swear I was going to throw the channel charger at Joe Biden if he didn't stop claiming ownership for EVERYTHING. If he truly did everything he said he did while VP, then what the heck did Barack Obama do as president?
Every one of these folks have a history of things they accomplished which they are proud of, and of making decisions that were less than positive.
Last night was nothing more than a verbal advertisement and enforcement of what they claim they will do.
Promises made on a broad stroke. But we all know, depending on which party controls the Senate and the Congress will matter the most whether any of the hollow promises made last night will ever see fruition.
Trump still terrifies me. But these seven didn't offer much hope of defeating Trump either.
2
@Marge Keller
"It's probably just me, but I'm worn down to the bare bone."
Me, too. The bright light at the end of the tunnel looks awfully far away.
The Senate and the House keep me up nights. If Sanders is the nominee, his socialist schtick would be on every line of every ballot. Given that, unless he makes big changes now, he is not likely to win back the Senate and could very well also lose us the House. Think of all of the purple districts that we won in 2018, with less progressive candidates. In that case, even if he beats Trump, it would not be any kind of victory at all.
2
What's incredible is that the Commentariate doesn't see that Elizabeth Warren brings all the positive progressive ideals and goals to this contest, but without Bernie Sanders' baggage--those fifty-plus years of being a Marxist ideologue and never joining the Democratic Party except to caucus with them in the Congress here and there.
Warren gets things done. In that, she's like Klobuchar and Biden, and even Bloomberg. But Warren is a Democrat, not a Republican. (How Republican Bloomberg has the nerve to run as a Democrat can only be explained by the Big Money Boys in NYC and DC.)
Face it: The only reason everybody is ignoring Warren's strong candidacy these days, where she asserts viable and detailed plans for her progressive proposals, is that the Sander's support group has declared that it will sit out the election unless Their Guy wins the nomination. They elected Trump in 2016 with their pique at Clinton's superior knowledge of the Democratic Party from within it, and they may not care if they do something like that again if a non-Bernie gets the Democratic nod.
2
@Constance Sullivan
You're right. Warren is great. She is everything Sanders is plus a whole lot more. I wish she weren't positioning herself as a Sanders disciple.
unfortunately your line about "dems dont trust Bernie..." is exactly why he attracts the independent vote. a large portion of our population doesn't align with either party. how sad to me that the dem party can't find a way to embrace Sanders' ideas to put this country on the same level as the other industrialized and developed countries. it was a good test for Sanders, will prepare him well for the general
3
Free and open debate is an essential component in a democratic society. Democrats, however, have amply demonstrated its risks. Though the price to Democrats may seemingly be high, it is still better than the dictatorial restrictions on dialogue that Donald Trump seeks to impose.
That said, a cautionary note should be sounded vis a vis the myriad Democrats autologous feeding frenzies, and that is that in the run up to the 2016 presidential election, there were seventeen Republican candidates vying for the presidential nomination, and the least qualified, most histrionic, divisive and destructive candidate grabbed it, along with the presidency. Why? Because he connected with the voters in an emotional, motivating way, just as Sanders appears to be doing.
That doesn't mean that the Democrats' circular firing squad is necessarily a good thing; clearly, it is not. What strikes me most is the panic that has gripped the remaining candidates, panic that each could lose, panic that Sanders could prevail, and panic that Trump could take him down with a few solid right hooks, smartly placed, in the general election.
If Donald Trump is good at anything, it is in defining his opponents with simple, if derisive names that resonate with his supporters. While the Democrats are duking it out for their own party's nomination, they are handing Trump a significant amount of ammo to fire in the eventual nominee's direction. In short, they are doing his job for him.
1
Frank -- If there's any good news to take away from last night's debates it's that most of us true blue Democrats have now tuned them out.
The Party conceded defeat to Trump last Saturday in Nevada. The elevation of socialist Sanders transformed Trump into the "moderate in the race".
Do you really think at this point many of us "ordinary Democrats" now care about this political debacle?
Democracy is messy and we should expect political parties of that ilk to be likewise. But not this. In 2016 Republican Primary debates candidates other than the ultimate winner were measured and careful not to hand Dems powerful promotional material with which to damage their ultimate cause. For both Trump and Sanders, the populist message requires trust. As Bruni says the tagline against Sanders emerging from these debates could well be disastrously effective. The so-called Middle-Class voter could relate to an ignorant and inarticulate candidate, Bernie's major issue is not so much what he preaches but the fact that he speaks in sentences and uses facts to support his message. Trusting him will be much harder. Having his own side hammer him will do nothing to change the occupant of the Oval Office later this year.
I always look forward and watch the debates, but find myself regretting doing so! Then I feel guilty for my thoughts and tell myself that the future of this country is at stake. However, watching these schoolyard tactics really leaves me feeling uneasy, to say the least.
2
@k.richards in Kent, CT. Is that you Kieffe? Gimme Shelter!
The idea that the wealthiest nation on Earth couldn't afford to provide a basic standard of health care, education, housing, and other services to its citizens, when so many other nations manage to do so, is absurd on its face. The grumbling and pearl-clutching about Medicare for All or making college free or affordable isn't because those things aren't possible, or wouldn't provide a better standard of living for America as a whole. The millions poured into advertising against Bernie is being pushed by the people who will "suffer" under his programs in that they might have to buy the 300-foot yacht instead of the 400-footer.
Government is a product of our collective willpower and imagination. For decades now, right-wing media and politicians have attacked the idea of working towards the common good. Why would our best and brightest want to serve our country when the institution is described as "the problem, never the solution" and underfunded, denigrated and hamstrung from performing its basic mission? Imagine what we could accomplish if we had public servants who wanted to develop the best institutions they could, rather than one wing devoted to subverting public good to the benefit of wealthy, amoral individuals and corporations.
Change is never painless, but for most Americans the status quo is utterly broken. We are capable of building a better world together. Bernie Sanders gets that. I hope the rest of us do too.
3
My three SHOULDS* for the Dem race.
1:
All non-billionaires should drop-out and agree to direct support (personnel, coffers, and future appearances) to back either Klobuchar or Warren.
2:
Two "super duper" superPACs—one to back Klobuchar, one Warren—should be formed.
3:
Bloomberg and Steyer should agree to pool their dollars to even-out/equalize—dollar for dollar—any "super duper" coffer-differences each woman candidate encounters. This would assure an equal playing field of financial parity on which the ideas and personas of two women could compete in primaries/caucuses. Then, at the convention, traditional means would be used to determine which woman wins the nomination.
*In sum, EVERYBODY HAS AN IMPORTANT ROLE TO PLAY, including the billionaires, since their pooled resources would get used prudently to assure that each, Progressive or Moderate, candidate would get equal $upport going up to the convention. Meanwhile each of the remaining candidates have key roles... Bernie, that of Moses (who could see but could not go to the Promised Land) 'cuz his candidacy is tainted due to the chaos intentions of Russian support. Buttigieg, that of "Patience," 'cuz, at 38 years of age, he has 21 years more of leadership potential than Klobuchar. Biden, that of "Wisdom," since he needs a way out and this saves him face AND resolves/clarifies days ahead for electorate.
DISCLAIMER: Can party form its own "super duper" superPacs (IDK)? Point is, two basic buckets for dollars are needed.
It’s been so much fun watching the progression of Frank Bruni’s meltdown over the last few weeks. Will Bernie Bro Frank make it through to the convention?
“Everything is impossible until it happens.”
So, I suggest that beating Trump can bring a new democracy.
In 1992, Leonard Cohen wrote his prophetic "Democracy" song.
"Democracy is coming to the USA"
Now, 28 years, later, we have chance for a new democracy wave.
I suggest that Democratic candidates use the "Democracy" song.
MLK, JR said that he had a dream.
Democrats have no dream, only ramblings.
-----------------------------------------------------
I also hope that the Times write about the words of the song.
"Democracy is coming to the USA"
What an awful spectacle this "debate" was. Just awful.
There has to be a better way.
Mr Bruni, thanks for your opinion piece. It was nearly "perfect"! The democrats are their own worst enemies from the poor leadership of Perez to the ridiculous displays by the candidates that are euphemistically called debates.
1
Frank Bruni, as usual, is completely correct except for the title of his op. The Democrat party always appears to be eating itself - I recall that Jack Kennedy was on the menu long ago. I wish Bruni would make the point that Mike Bloomberg may be the best candidate as he believes much of what Bernie does, but he is not a socialist confessor, nor was he a close pal of Fidel Castro - although you should remind yourself that Castro tossed out the most corrupt and cruel, and murderous bunch of gangsters that Cubans had ever had the displeasure to see running their government. That aside, Bernie did seem to forget that Fidel allowed Rusia to load its nuclear missiles into that island nation which at least in media "lore" brought American as close to nuclear war in history - although not that close mind you. The Russia nuke-a-thon was a game played badly by Krushchev who was never going to use those missiles against the USA. At the time of Fidel's victory, much of the American population saw him as Robin Hood or somesuch.
Bloom berg must underscore his ability not only to fund needed actions in America but that he also has the right connections to lure the top 10% earners to throw in as much as $4 Trillion in a single year without much pain - and they need not do that - perhaps a Trillion every two years would do, Bernie will be crucified by Trump machine, but then Biden is yet the winner in many tout's ring binders.
"occasionally vaulted past fierce to feral"
This is why we need writers not bloggers
1
Let us not forget that certain candidates are paying people to conduct social media campaigns of astro-turfing. Your eyes and ears do not fool you, do your own research, watch the original content yourself.
There are people acting in bad faith everywhere, even the NYTimes comments section.
1
Bruni is going a bit overboard here.
Democracy is messy, much as the kitchens of all the great restaurants are.
R-e-l-a-x.
3
"Catch-2020". Excellent!
1
Frank, I'm a heterosexual cisgender white guy from the Midwest, and I've been watching the Democrats self-immolate since 2014. It's worse than you say, and deserves all caps: The Democrats are doing this poorly against DONALD TRUMP.
If they can't figure it out this year, then how does anyone think the new, online, woke and angry left will ever win an election against a Republican who ISN'T an utter horror?
Frank: Step back and think about it. You and all of your liberal friends spent 3 years hating and trying to destroy Trump, capping it off with an impeachment process that you knew would never work but went ahead with it anyway. Seems like nobody really gave much thought about coming up with a viable candidate if Trump had to be defeated the old fashioned way...in an election! Now see what you've done. Trump is stronger than ever and, as you say, the Democratic Party is devouring itself! And how does it feel, Frank, knowing that you and your newspaper played a big role in the debacle? Not only are you going to get Trump for another 4 years, you may lose the House as well. Thanks, Frank!
This "nasty" debate (as characerized by by Mr. Bruni, not me) is now in the books.
The controversy was totally predicatable.
Why should red-blooded Americans (okay, including red-blooded native American Elizabeth Warrent) endorse any of these propsoed Dem nominees?
Crickets. There is no there there.
I smell 1972 all over again.
I only saw the last bit when Bloomberg gave his answer to the worthless final questions. Given what I can read, that debate should never have taken place. If there any more scheduled, cancel them.
I agree with the headline: The Democratic Party Devours Itsel.
Thomas Friedman at a column that closed comments at 3250, makes the same suggestion - he is given more words - that I have been making here in comment land.
Top candidates, tell us about what Friedman calls your super administration. Tell us which of your competitors has a place in your administration when you win. Tell us about a plausible Vice President or about reasons for selecting candidate who truly complements you - that is with an "e" not an "i".
I have been writing the short version: Sanders or Warren, President - who is a plausible VP for each? And what cabinet post might several of the others be offered?
If candidates do not read Times columns and comments, will somebody, maybe a top Times Editor suggest that it is time to start.
Thanks Frank even for pointing out the hypocrites, your Klobuchar example is one well placed arrow.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Citizen US SE
Amy. The voice of reason. Biden...who knew it was good manners that caused him to pay attention to the time light? He did a good job. And I miss Corey's passion...
Sanders's supporters of 2016 remember how they were treated by the Democrat establishment.
2
The Left is not what this country remotely wants. And the Democrats deserve this.
The Left needs to know also:
- the nation is not yet Atheistic, hope as they might
- the nation has real misgivings about abortion, even allowing for it to be available and rarely used
- the nation is concerned about its internal security and border sscurity, allowing for compassion toward refugees and immigrants who value our history
- the nation wants medical care that is competitive AND innovative. Most of the worlds’ medical advances originate here, in this awful and private system the Left abhors.
- the world is a free place, and capital flows to where it is highly valued and welcomed. The Trump economic boom, following years of Obama’s boom, is a result of deregulation and lower corporate taxes. If you ran a company, you would understand simple math.
- the Left’s PC thought police are as tyrranical as any dictatorial system. And freedom loving people have a right to their own thoughts and to fight back against tyrrany. Tough luck for you if you want to signal your own virtuous example.
- the American family is under attack. But, hey, individual rights are most important, so let the State raise our children.
The Left doesn’t talk much about personal responsibility. It’s too judgmental and gets in the way of their grand social experiments, namely to let politicians run lives.
If it feels like the USSR or the PRC, it should.
You should have euthanized the Sanders campaign in 2016.
1
How about this: each candidate is given an equal amount of time to use as they desire. Each has a button that will activate their mic in the order that they tap in, and their clock counts down until they tap out. When they run out of time, they are done.
Questions would still be asked by moderators, and candidates could ask others directly as well. It would be interesting to see how they spend those minutes.
2
Thank goodness the people will decide not the pundits or the plutocrats. Bernie is winning because a substantial number of us know that big changes are needed in our political leadership to provide equal pay, equal opportunity, a tax system that holds extreme wealth and corporations accountable for their share of taxes, quality health care as a right, expansion of public education to include pre-k and 4 year public college and trade schools, a pathway to citizenship for refugees and dreamers, an end to discrimination in any form and a civil administration in the White House that doesn't lie, cheat and steal or buy elections.
When a group gets agitated, everyone usually jumps into the fray. Some Democratic candidate should have prepared ahead of time simply not to participate in chaos, perhaps by leaning silently on the podium. THAT would have shown real leadership and it likely would have immediately changed the tone of the debate to one of a more substantive back-and-forth. Leaders are supposed to step out in front and show the way!
I agree with one of your readers who questioned the need for debate if it provides this ridiculous environment. No one in the House or Senate has cause to debate in person. Presidents do not debate unless the media remembers to ask questions about policy rather than crowdspeak. The current onstage fiasco could be easily replaced by an electronic communication interface that allows participation by all and control of participant response time limits by a moderator. It might also provide the basis for some level of courtesy that might be as much of a requirement for a President as the ability to debate.This debacle did not produce a candidate or allow us to select one. It simply reduced the process to the level of Trump. This presentation was not a winner nor would any more of these develop a winner which we desperately need.
Could we please try ranked choice voting?
283
@Colin Hendricks
Good idea.
However, there is not enough time to get it implemented this year.
6
@Colin Hendricks
I love ranked Choice Voting. It lets people vote for their favorite candidate and the one they think will win.
Still, Bernie would probably win that too, although Warren is a lot of people's second choice, so she would do well.
10
@Colin Hendricks
Yes, put the emphasis on the calibre of the individual candidate and take it away from the political parties.
6
Mr. Bruni's assessments seem spot on through many points. My question is will "blue-no-matter-who" defeat the current administration? As Trump and the GOP donors will capitalize upon the democratic fracas, will democrats will refuse to stand together? If this happens it's going to a purely apathetic failure, based around the individual self-centered, selfish attitudes that prevail in this nation. I believe in the vigor and durability of the nation and I want to extend the notion to the Democratic Party. But, the coalition is woefully absent, fractured and it is with good reason. Not one reporter ever writes about the real reasons this nation is in peril, in my opinion. If I stated the case, my comment would be passed over.
I watched the debate last night- here's what I would suggest to bring back order and civility to the process: Adopt the staple of numerous successful daytime and primetime television gameshows....the isolation booth. Each candidate will be situated in his/her own isolation booth on the stage.
1. After a candidate's allotted time limit to respond to a moderator's question has elapsed, the candidates' microphone automatically turns off.
2.While the candidate is speaking for his/her allotted time, all other candidates' microphones are automatically turned off.
3. While the moderators are speaking, all of the candidates' microphones are automatically turned off.
Problem solved.
3
Television has completely destroyed our elections. It has given birth to political entertainment and brought to the polls voters who not only don’t understand the complexities of the issues but who also don't possess the willingness and/or time required to acquire that understanding. If the campaign period was limited in time and to a written plan, those seeking the office without a viable path forward would never see the light of day nor would they ever have the ability to connect with the uninformed voter. Having the privilege of a vote should come with some responsibility.
2
I could not escape the thought that Bloomberg must have had paid cheerleaders in the audience. He is certainly trying to buy the election in every other way. Almost every time he spoke, saying nothing impressive whatsoever, there was an exaggerated, positive reaction from the audience. I wonder if anyone else noticed the disproportionate nature of that applause? It's too bad the debates have devolved into a shouting match in which the audience is no longer told not to clap until it's over.
3
Several takeaways from last night’s scrum are worth noting. First, the CBS moderators were an embarrassment. They reminded me of being in middle school when we had some ill-prepared substitute teacher lose control of classroom discipline. Second, Bernie Sanders remained true to his convictions just as he always has over the last 40 years. No amount of red baiting or misconstruing his record on guns will deter him from his mission to fundamentally transform America into a more just society. He will never back down. Third, the Democratic Party of 2020 is not under any circumstances going to nominate a billionaire. Mr. Bloomberg and Mr. Steyer should focus their attention on helping to win a majority in the Senate and retaining control in the House. Thanks for coming out to run for President, but you need to quickly step aside. Fourth, after Super Tuesday it would be ideal if the next debate had only two candidates remaining. Maybe the DNC could arrange for some moderators that would run the affair with a little more decorum, a lot less shouting, and a lot more clear policy discussion.
2
If Sanders' red-faced, eye-bulging, arm-waving yelling was an example of, as Bruni suggests, Sanders keeping "his cool," that's really something. Imagine if Elizabeth Warren had done the same.
3
A pretty good analysis from a queer left wing Democrat. Give credit where credit is due (in spite of the self-congratulatory "we are so good" tone of Democrat jargon) !
All primaries are fierce and a bit messy, but at least the candidates on stage last night are all intelligent people who seem to care about our nation's well-being. Contrast that with the 2016 Republican debates where an openly gay service member was booed and the candidates literally got into a conversation about the size of their genitalia.
2
A gaggle of immature geese honking maniacally at one another whilst running around in circles.
The Idiots for Trump Coalition must be ecstatic.
1
Where is Hillary to rescue us all?
2
If Sanders is the democratic nominee my choices will be between the old commie and the crooked racist.
Hmm, I'll think about that for about one second and vote for Sanders
The democrats are cowards. The republicans are bullies.
Take your pick for 2020.
1
When Elizabeth Warren thinks you are impractical, your vision too liberal, and your approach too intractable, you know that something has gone awry with your campaign. Sanders supporters will brush aside the criticism as they have from day 1. They'll shout about inequality and morality and fairness, as if there's disagreement about these topics among Democrats (there really isn't much) and argue that Sanders way is the ONLY way. They will claim the moral high ground, as if they alone care about the environment, the economy, the poor, immigrants, etc.
And they will be wrong, as they have from the beginning, that they are holding a winning hand. Bernie Sanders is the absolute worst possible candidate to run against Donald Trump. He's already being labeled a socialist with sympathies towards Castro's Cuba. He's already released revenue plans that fall woefully short of what will be needed to cover his unprecedented vision for government expansion. He's already shown that he is incapable of moderating his message or engaging in compromise to appeal to the 2/3 of the country that isn't very liberal. In sum, Bernie Sanders campaign is a train wreck waiting to happen. Trump is going to unleash hell on him and will, sadly, prevail again.
2
Democrats like Frank Bruni need to both wake up and calm down. This is presidential politics, not auditioning for the school play. If you had spent all this time and money preparing for a conclusion that, for most, will be rendered in a week, wouldn't you pull out the stops as well. So what if the statements about Sanders will later be used against him; everything, true or not, will be used against him by Trump and his meme artists and collaborating liars anyway.
And by the way, Democrats need to use smart, but heavily negative campaigning too. Trump is a bad person and a bad president, and though his serial lying and other misbehaviors are now absorbed as if "that's just him", the dangers he presents are grave - remember rule of law?
There is a long campaign ahead. Though a Warren supporter, I am committed to not only supporting, but vigorously campaigning for whomever the Democrats nominate. Neither Bernie Sanders nor Mike Bloomberg will be anywhere near as bad a president as Donald Trump. Those who like neither Bernie nor Mike should remember what the stakes are here, and gladly and vociferously support the Democratic nominee come hell or high water.
3
Mr. Bruni, do you read your own newspaper?
At this point, most sentient beings will vote for a pig's patootie if it'll get rid of Donald Trump.
1
Boo hoo. Sanders fans like to dish out angry attacks on his rivals - moderates are sell out folks destined for the bottom rungs of hell - but when the rivals attach his weaknesses (legitimate ones) he snd his base get upset. Too bad. Too many of his base sat out 2016 and thus gave us Trump I, now they say only Bernie will do and will give us Trump II. Burn for Bernie will again leave us all in ruins.
1
this is patently false. HRC ran a mostly lifeless and smug campaign, and had so much perfect political baggage that played right into trump's drain the swamp rhetoric. Putting up HRC was the risk and we lost. I voted for Sanders in the primary and HRC in the general, but her history and the wave of politics doubled over on her like the perfect storm.
1
A good summary reminder. “Everything is impossible until it happens.” The progressive counter to that supposedly realistic ‘politics is the art of the possible’. These two approaches seem to sum up the moderate v. progressive differences. It again brings back the Kennedy ‘I see things that never were, and ask, why not’.
To me, Sanders, Warren are the equivalent of that old movie clip; ‘I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it any longer’. The Party has to change. So often noted, since the 1980s, trying to compromise, trying to out raise Repub funding- has allowed both Parties to be hostage to- money.
As for the last two food-fight debates, hello- it’s the format, stupid. Where is the calm, seated, round table discussion of one topic. Where is the ....5-minutes for a comment, a view, a slightly deeper explanation. Where is the time. Time from our media channels.... broadcast, public, satellite- we, the public, own all the air space they all use. Regulate it for our public, political discourse in election years. Give Republican primaries equal time- lol....so the dead air space will speak volumes on all their proposals for our growing problems. I look forward to a Republican debate over that health care proposal...out there somewhere, but never mentioned.
We’ll get through this, but this debate format, like the caucuses, should just die a quiet death.
Crabs in a bucket. As soon as one crab starts to climb out the others grab on and pull him back in. Their collective cynical greed and ambition is no better then Lindsey Graham.
MSM does the same. As soon as there's a front runner they start blaring out every conceivable negative. Dems and the MSM pretty much guarantees Trump for 4 more years.
Yup- crabs in a bucket. And Trump has the handle. Thanks for nothing, morons
1
I think we are holding the dems to too high a standard at this point in a close battle. In the March 3, 2016 Republican debate in Detroit, Trump and Rubio were arguing about the size of Trump's hands/penis. At least dems are arguing the issues.
3
Two thoughts:
First, if the rest of the bunch is so much better at "getting things done" why aren't they at the head of the pack? Sanders has out organized them, has out fund raised them, created a more diverse following, and gleaned more delegates. By any reasonable yardstick, that means he is better at getting it done.
Second, the moderates were all expressing the DNC and media alarming hyperventilation. Yes, it was do or die for most of them. However, if the DNC and its brood is not very careful, they will create a self-fulfilling prophesy as they convince their own base that Sanders is unelectable (despite evidence to the contrary) that could negatively effect turnout.
They may be cutting off their nose to spite their face, but it would preserve the influence of the leadership - party and country be damned.
2
Moderators helpless? What? They were incompetent, is what they were. These candidates all talking all over each other and the moderators just sitting there.
Cut the mikes, for goodness sake. Candidates have a minute to answer? OK, at 50 seconds they get a warning on the clock - not spoken - mike will be cut in 10 seconds. Then do it. And when they get into this fighting on stage with everyone talking over everyone else - cut all their mikes until they stop.
Again, why TV personalities are considered the best people to moderate a Presidential debate is beyond me. They are looking for ratings. They are looking for reality show dramatics. The country is going to hell in a hand basket and we have moderators sitting there "helpless." Huh?
2
Remember, in 2016, Sanders was the one who finally said "Enough about the damned emails."
I was hoping the Democrats would avoid this sort of counter-productive mess. But there doesn't seem to be enough discipline within the Party to accomplish that. These tactics poison the well for the eventual nominee, no matter who that is.
And for those of the candidates who are saying compromise and the ability to work with others is of paramount importance, I'll ask this question: Do these sort of attack tactics create fertile ground for collaboration?
I wish I could say I was surprised.