Rupert Murdoch has ‘meddled’ in our election(s) 100,000 times more destructively than anything the Russians did, are doing, or have the capability of doing.
Efforts to arrive at a consensus view on any matter at all, any issue, are, with malice of forethought, ruined by clouds of deliberate lies.
Fox News, Sinclair, and the veritable industry of media propaganda are driving our country into the dirt.
There are QAnon believers running for Congress!
That’s how far down the hole we’ve sunk as a nation.
Meanwhile, Fox News has become normalized so completely that the Russians on Facebook are the dire concern.
Time for the press to start using the words ‘lie, lies, lying, and liar’.
103
@C. Thomson Great comment.
2
Is there a techie in the room
who is a grown-up too?
Someone is spreading doom and gloom:
the Russians have gone "boo"!
We have to stop and think like this.
If we cannot define
what Russian interference is
then any guess is fine.
We'd better use our common sense
when we elect someone.
Not voting is our worst offense.
Go vote. Don't be a bum!
The MSM, including NYT assisted the Russians by trying to play fair and balanced. By seeking to find two sides to every story, they end up legitimizing a false, Russian GRU - created narrative. Why not put the truth out there, then identify and call out the Russian stuff this time around.
1
Suppose for a blessed minute Trump had not won the EC. Odds are he would still be complaining about how the election was rigged by the Kenyan-born Obama with the help of his deep state enablers who wiretapped his campaign. About how millions of illegal immigrants cast illegitimate votes. He'd be demanding the investigation and impeachment of "Crooked Hillary". The fact that he did win was just icing on the cake. The idea that the Kremlin preferred Trump because of HRC's tough on Russia stance is naive. In fact, for the purpose of sewing discord and division, Trump and Clinton were probably the two ideal candidates.
There are two separate issues, as Mr. Warzel points out, but then de-emphasizes. One is the use of social media. That issue is something that potentially we all can adapt to by acknowledging it and trying to be analytical about what we see and hear. How effective most voters will be in adapting is an open question, but it's something that can be done in principle. The other issue is hacking of the voting system. I can understand why government security agencies don't want to talk about this (one crucial reason being not to give away to Russian hackers just what our security agencies do and don't know). But our parties and governments give the impression of being utterly incompetent to deal with hacking. We don't have, and aren't going to have (at least before the election), the information to know what our security agencies can and will do, or what they'll miss or choose not to do. At the moment, a great deal seems to depend on the judgment of the Putin government and those who work for it as to how subtle they need to be in order to produce an outcome that especially pleases them. The technical issue is crucial, aside from how we adapt to the more purely psychological issue.
1
Putin strategy is for progressive voter to want 100% on check list before voting. Republicans have same problem with candidates showing off third party rating percentage.
Demographic centre is at 68% of population. Extreme of statistical distribution control political discussion in United states of America.
1
With the state of the Demcorat Party, one would think it should be willing to accept help from any. For it declares it has been beat by a racist, homophobic, misogynist, tax dodging, Russophile, rapist, flim-flam artist -- breaching the once Blue Wall (Party reconstruction under Bernie's tutelage more resembles the Berlin Wall.) Perhaps another look at its cast of '20 characters would shed some light on the Party's failings. After all, it is getting taken-over by a Socialist; which should be enough to 'back up the truck'. Will it? I predict, no; Dem's, Daley withstanding, have never displayed the type of courage that would require. Which is a step up from not having the courage. Instead, it needs to stop relying on lies to govern; that would be a good place to park the truck.
We now know that the brunt of Russian meddling in the 2016 election was focused on the Democratic primary contest between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, not the presidential election that followed.The Mueller Report notes that Julian Assange despised Hillary Clinton, who he described as “sadistic sociopath.” It reveals that Wikileaks contacted Guccifer 2.0—the persona of Russian intelligence operatives—and asked for “anything Hillary related” because the Democratic National Convention was approaching. WikiLeaks told Guccifer 2.0 that “we think Trump has only a 25% chance of winning against Hillary so conflict between Bernie and Hillary is interesting.”
Guccifer 2.0 sent WikiLeaks 20,000 emails and other documents stolen from the Democratic National Committee computer networks. They revealed the DNC had been stacking the deck against Bernie to ensure Hillary won the Democratic Party nomination. The WikiLeaks exposé, which forced the resignation of DNC cochair Debbie Wasserman Schultz, angered and energized Sanders supporters, but Hillary won the nomination anyway.
Source: Muller report, Vol. 1, Page 45
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/18/us/politics/mueller-report-document.html?auth=login-email#g-page-52
1
Charlie Warzel says something that has needed to be said for years, but he is far too gentle.
The whole Russian meddlling narrative is the biggest hoax since Orson Welles's radio show spooked countless Americans into believing that Martians had invaded New Jersey.
Of course, the Martians .... oops, Russians ... try to meddle in our elections. That is no more news than a report that the Pope is Catholic. That is what Russians do. And it behooves us to keep an eye on it. The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.
But there is a world of difference between intending to influence our election and actually pulling it off. The media's failure to make that distinction is a gross dereliction of its duty -- and they and Democrats need to be called out for blurring the distinction.
Just pause one second and consider how absurd the claim is. Are the Russian bots supermen? Tell me: What have Russians done to our elections that lots of Americans haven't tried to do? How come they have succeeded where no American has succeeded? (Of course, if you are a dyed-in-the-wool conspiracy theorist, you will dispute even that. That is what conspiracy theorists do. If there is no evidence of a conspiracy, that just shows how diabolically successful the conspirators are at hiding it).
1
“Meddle”? You “meddle” if your daughter is dating a bum. You “meddle” when there’s a dispute at work. When an avowed enemy of your country helps install a horrible individual in a leadership position in a blatant attempt to disrupt the good order of your government, it ain’t “meddling”! Find another word to seriously describe what’s happening.
1
Coronavirus isn’t cured with a sharpie. Trump is toast.
1
United States citizens in this country need to see and act upon the fact that Donald Trump is attempting to move this country into a dictatorship - which becomes more transparent by the day! Please, please, please demand that your community Electoral Board is guaranteeing and proving to you a tamper-proof vote to get this guy out of office in November. If it means paper ballots until the US can figure out how to have tamper-free vote casting, then so be it ….Russia will interfere with the 2020 election just as every Federal agency concurred when former Special Counsel, Robert S. Mueller, stated when testifying about Russian tampering..."they are plotting as we sit here." And again, "The Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion." If we do not have free and tamper-proof vote casting in November, we as a democratic country are finished. That is not an exaggeration - it is the truth.
2
If I were Putin, and I wanted to tank a Democratic candidate's candidacy, I would just do some meddling to "support" her or his campaign. The meddling would be detected and reported in the U.S., causing everyone to freak out and pronounce the candidate a Russian puppet. We see some of that reaction in Senator Sanders' case now.
The way to defang meddling is to simply ignore it. Whatever you thought of Candidate X before hearing about meddling, you should continue to think of Candidate X. To change your opinion in any way based on stories of meddling is to allow yourself to be manipulated.
1
I think the first step is for thinking people to drop Twitter. Just let Trump and the Russians use it. I dropped my account two years ago and feel and think very well.
2
Counter-intuitive as it may seem, one thing we need to do is stop weaponizing Russian meddling as evidence that an opponent's supporters are dupes, or that meddling is proof that Russia wants a candidate to win or lose. No one can know with absolute certainty who or why Russia wants a candidate in office. We can know with certainty that Russia wants to take an already-polarized nation and polarize it more. The more I snipe at a Trump or Sanders supporter, the more I'm laser-focused on our differences. Love of NAASCAR is not proof of a low IQ, and celebrating Cinco de Mayo does not mean you're here illegally.
Why does it require attacks on Pearl Harbor or the Twin Towers for the people of this country to realize we have far more in common than not? This is one reason I've stopped watching cable news. It, all of it, MSNBC, Fox, and the others, drive ratings -- and hence ad revenues -- by sensationalizing every little bit of news. In a way, it's Russian-meddling light. Is it so catastrophic that Trump bungles the names of Indian cricket players? Is Bloomberg's inability to tell a joke proof he's unfit for the presidency?
Russia, MSNBC, Fox, all of them play on people's confirmation bias. Democrats/Republicans are bad, so what Hannity/Maddow says MUST be true. No, it must not. I don't know what will stop this downward spiral, but I know it must stop. And the first step is for each of us to cut off polarization's source of food.
United States citizens in this country need to see and act upon the fact that Donald Trump is attempting to move this country into a dictatorship - which becomes more transparent by the day! Please, please, please demand that your community Electoral Board is guaranteeing and proving to you a tamper-proof vote to get this guy out of office in November. If it means paper ballots until the US can figure out how to have tamper-free vote casting, then so be it ….Russia will interfere with the 2020 election just as every Federal agency concurred when former Special Counsel, Robert S. Mueller, stated while testifying about Russian tampering..."they are plotting as we sit here." And again, "The Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion." And finally, the specificity of Mueller's testimony offered a wake up call to election officials and campaigns — and leaders in some states - who are not paying attention - are still resisting temper-proof vote casting. If we do not have free and tamper-proof vote casting in November, we as a democratic country are finished. That is not an exaggeration - it is the truth.
1
In your piece you say:
As the KGB defector Yuri Alexandrovich Bezmenov said in an interview all the way back in 1984, the end goal of meddling is to demoralize citizens so that “exposure to true information does not matter anymore.”
That is exactly what Trump administration officials do and what Fox News does (or as some of us know Fox aka Pravda). And Putin doesn't even have to pay for Fox.
I too do not know the solution. But I do think that when reporting "facts" from administration officials, spokes people, or Fox News, the media has a duty to point out when these "facts" are questionable or false. Too much of the media think their job is to just report what someone says and not question it. This, of course, should apply to all reporting.
1
Unfortunately the Times plays a role in misinformation as well. While I appreciate and participate in its comments section, it still allows unsubstantiated opinions and suggestions to be posted. Even more problematically there is no flag for factual misinformation in its comment flags...why is that?
1
It is ultimately up to the individual voter to pay attention and think rationally. Good luck with that.
1
Russia's interference to harm Clinton and aid Trump in the 2016 election was massive and multifaceted. It was in coordination with their overall campaign to sow discord within the US, to destroy trust in institutions, and, as this article points out, to create so much confusion that people cannot distinguish between truth, propaganda, and pure nonsense just to create chaos. They had a particular dislike for Clinton, who represented stability and a strong US, and a specific affinity for Trump, to bring chaos and weakness to the US.
This year, Russia's goals and related preference for Trump are unchanged. They love how Trump divides and weakens our nation. But their cyber activities in apparent support of Sanders is aimed more at creating dissension in the Democratic Party than in promoting Sanders. The predictable backlash against him by others in the party weakens him as a potential opponent of Trump and weakens the party as a whole.
2
I think the real challenge here is to the news media. Not every tweet or leak or attempt at emotional expression is news.
News reporters need to keep the concept of 'shelf space' in mind when they gather and report. The brains of your audience have limited bandwidth. Dumping words and pictures into the news channel in this competitive environment without sensible analysis and filtration is a dis-service. I understand the need for reporters to avoid injecting their own bias but that bias can be seen over time and discounted by the news consumer.
It is also a challenge for the media platforms (such as Facebook, YouTube, ...) to make better use of data analytics to identify and filter out trolls, bots and bad actors. Since these platforms are private they can insist on decorum just as media have censored the use of expletives in language. I understand that some of the digital media platforms don't want our culture to consider them as media and regulate them as such but wishing doesn't make it so !
2
I believe this issue will fix itself. People will begin to see reality when the suffering reach a severe enough level. In good times people are easily cowed. It matters not if it is Russia or our own government, they are always lying and the people always buying.
Yes, the goal isn't to elect a specific candidate but to chisel at the fault lines. Trump just happens to serve that agenda almost perfectly. The announcement that Russia is again interfering, with no detail or proof, only feeds "deep state" conspiracy theories.
I guess I am missing something. The Russians tried to interfere in our last election. Yet no one is alleging that so much much as a single vote was changed because of their interference. Furthermore, I have yet to hear of a single American who claims that their vote was changed because of some piece of propaganda disseminated by the Russians. Its a tempest in a teapot. Sadly, Mr. Trump was right, without the congressional briefing, we would not know about the current Russian interference, and it wouldn't be politicized as it is being done now. If the Russian hoped to further polarize our electorate, they are succeeding.
1
@chip "Yet no one is alleging that so much much as a single vote was changed because of their interference." This is false. It's called Information Operations (IO) and it works, and this is why Russia's doing it; and the fact that you don't believe it works is proof that it works!
2
Intelligence agencies never do anything without a reason or goal in mind. It may be a miscalculated reason and at times their information has been highjacked and distorted, as in the Bush lies about WMD's.
But when this last "intelligence briefing" left out all the crucial details you can bet this was a carefully calculated choice.
The results were predictable. Fears, doubts, uncertainties and rampant speculation, finger pointing and blaming.
In other words, the very "confusion" that some attribute to Russia is actually being generated by our own intelligence agencies.
They could have easily told us what to look out for on social media, but they didn't. They could have advised us and the mainstream media on how to protect against any meddling. But they didn't.
They could have shared reports and analysis on the actual impact Russian FB ads had in 2016, or what states should do to protect their internet connected voting machines. But they didn't.
What they did do was sow the seeds for creating a convenient scapegoat when and if things go terribly wrong in voting, as they did with the electronic tabulations in Iowa.
I'm not alleging that this bears the marks of a 'black flag operation.' That would be irresponsible speculation without evidence to support it.
But I stand by my argument that omissions by intelligence agencies are usually as carefully crafted as what they do tell us. And sometimes what we don't know says a lot more about what's going on than what we do.
1
@Drspock It's possible the "sources and methods" they are reluctant to give up includes simply how much access they do have, possibly including exactly who is posting what comments to the New York Times. Such information is not likely to disabuse anyone of the "deep state" narrative. Assuming their goal is actually to protect the US and not world domination, as the deep state narrative holds, it puts them in a bind.
This dovetails well with Friedman's column today.
The problem is overwhelming. First Trump, now Sanders, (not exclusively of course) believes he is capable and uniquely qualified to be President/savior. Each is then buoyed and reinforced by unexpectedly strong and surging support.
Then each is told that his political rise was propelled not by merit and campaign effort alone. Malignant players selected your candidacy. Why? The analysis said it would deliver maximum damage.
Is seems unsolvable. Enter Friedman's concept, but erase names. Rapidly end the primary as it has been, and shift to a "Coaliton Candidacy"
Each candidate proclaims an identical message - we are co-equals, for this moment, and will promote the Coalition Candidacy while laying out our platforms, always building up our co-equals.
No more debates, no more demoralizing (or in some enclaves delighting) the country by tearing each other down.
Maybe before super Tuesday is some agreed upon, binding,
and consistent message.
This one would resonate for me: We stand together, and support each other's imperfect suitability. We are working out the details as to which of us will be the nominee. We know some campaigns were damaged and some benefited from foreign interference. We mourn the destruction of a level playing field By moving forward as one Coalition Candidacy we intend to disrupt the Putin Plan and restore American confidence in what public service really means.
20
@robin
Did it ever occur to you that maybe the intelligence service are wrong? I hasn't been the first time they've blown it. Maybe they are being played by the Russians to make us think they are interfering. Do you see where this rabbit hole goes? I'm less concerned about the Russians interfering in our elections with a few Facebook memes than I am about our own government and corporations. Voter roll purges, gerrymandering, voter suppression schemes, billions in dark money, and a corporate media that frames the issues in a very pro-corporate narrative. I'm also more worried by the DNC with their Super Delegates that could override the will of the voters. Did the Russians do that?
@robin Perhaps the intelligence agencies need to prepare and present a detailed public briefing with evidence of the meddling. It's difficult to get this country to unite except in the face of a tangible, ready-for-prime-time threat. If the meddling manifested itself as a the face of Putin with a hammer and sickle backdrop on every computer, smart phone, and tablet, shutting social media down for even ten minutes, this country would unite, and pronto.
@robin Trump publicly declared that only he could solve America's problems. I don't recall Sanders ever making such a claim, that he was the one and only ordained savior.
3
We're in an interesting period of rapid development that is offering up a "perfect storm" of civic challenges, one of them identified here. I don't believe it's only particularly bad political leader misbehavior... or only particularly unregulated new communication technologies... or only a particularly targeted, sensationalized, and undisciplined advertising and news industry... or only a particularly polarized and siloed population... or only a paucity of media literacy, critical thinking/humanities commitments, and civics education...
...but all of these taken together make it clear there will be no easy fixes.
4
Yes it is irresponsible to suggest that Sanders winning the nomination is playing into Russia's hands.
However what is 'dangerous' is to suggest as Sanders did that the timing of the Washington Posts piece on the Russians interference in his campaign was designed to hurt his chances to win the Nevada caucus.
Not only does this mimic the paranoia Trump and Putin like to propagate . It is fundamentally an attack on our free press and their responsibility to report events as they happen.
I find both deeply troubling .
10
@Alec.
His security briefing happened a month ago. Why not leak it then, instead of right before Nevada caucuses?
If the motive behind the leak was to warn people, why wouldn't you do it ASAP?
There's nothing paranoid about well-reasoned speculation. It's grounded in reality far more than the Russia paranoia.
19
America has become an abandoned house, sitting in the shambles of the once great experiment in Democracy.
The Republican party who control the Senate have divorced themselves from sanity and trampled the once strong foundation of the "rule of law" as well as our Constitution. They have successfully taken the Federal and Supreme Courts with them. While supporting at all costs an inept, corrupt and self-enriching Executive who wishes to be crowned a King. This was replaced with overwhelming chaos and hatred of all those "others" while basking in their power.
The Democratic party is also lost in the fog of naivety , they chose to believe that this is a normal election cycle. They are skilled and tearing themselves to tatters but unskilled at uniting to fight the largest danger to our Democracy.
Finally, the Fourth Estate as crucial as they are in chasing the story and reporting the news, they suffer from too much fair and balanced when we are truly aflame. We also have the continued cacophony of Fox and Facebook whose only role is to muddy the waters with disinformation and hatred.
So we ignore all the inconvenient truths that Russia is meddling in our election, our executive is treasonous and our country is being destroyed from within.
2
This is an excellent column. The easiest way to strengthen Trump's reelection is to sow discontent and suspicion among Democrats. It depresses the Democratic vote. This is exactly what Russian propaganda achieved in 2016. Targeted Democratic groups simply didn't bother to vote. Recently, both wings of the party have declared outright war on each other. If this continues, 2020 will end with the same outcome as 2016.
32
If Bernie had ever voted for sanctions against Russia, I might have more sympathy for your argument.
1
The nature of this "meddling" is key. If foreign agents are trying to hack into voting machines or databases, we should circle the wagons and go to battle. In the 2016 election, the big hack wasn't voting results but DNC emails that revealed the dumb stuff staffers were actually saying to each other (lesson: don't put dumb stuff in emails). And if we're just talking about bots and trolls posting idiot stories on the internet to fool fools, I'm less concerned. If the electorate were more informed and wise enough to resist such nonsense, it wouldn't be worth the effort. We encourage such forays by our own laziness and unserious American Idol approach to voting. As with the lousy people we constantly elect, we get what we deserve. If you think that's too cynical, look at our current crop of leaders and try to convince me how savvy we are.
2
If covid-19 heads to Russia.... Vlad will be too busy to bother US elections, and then he will have his hands full trying to bury the conspiracy chatter going with it. Just a thought of what’s possibly coming.
1
Oh, my. "As the KGB defector Yuri Alexandrovich Bezmenov said . . . the end goal of meddling is to demoralize citizens so that “exposure to true information does not matter anymore.” Another way of saying, there is no proof to the oft-repeated claims of meddling by the Russians. Or, the only candidate not manipulated by the Russians is Hillary. Get it?
1
Why would any Democrat vote for Putin's choice of Democratic nominee?
1
“For the press, it might mean listing all the information we don’t know up front and urging caution when reportin g on partial leaks.”
Well hallelujah Charlie Warzel. Exactly right. Please make sure that your employers get the memo. The corporate media, not least the NY Times, have eagerly transcribed the whisperings of anonymous actors in the “intelligence community” who, while acting for their self-serving political agendas, also happened to serve the interests of the Democrat elites and their media enablers. But we the people are not being served.
“Russians are meddling in our elections!” This neatly explained Clinton’s embarrassing failure (it actually wasn’t her fault!), poisoned Trump’s electoral success, gravely compromised any thought on his part to seek cooperation with Russia (a key idea during his campaign) rather than the hostile confrontation favored by the new Cold Warriors.
And not least the “Russians use Facebook to sow discord” trope tends to relieve us of responsibility for our own discord. Ironically, as Warzel well understands, the business model of Facebook itself exploits the motions of fear and anger which are sadly the most effective in maximizing engagement and thereby reaping billions in profits for the owners. And thus discord is sown.
The media should refuse to publish allegations of Russian meddling unless (1) the source is identified by name; (2) the nature of the meddling is specified; and (3) some sort of evidence is provided.
2
The following excerpt from the article says a huge amount, writ small:
“If we don’t adapt to this information war, our panic over election meddling could become self-fulfilling. And we will become useful idiots in the undermining of our own electoral legitimacy.“
1
Maybe you just can’t reason out what Putin is doing and what he really wants. He certainly bamboozled Obama a few times. If America is chasing its tail, you better believe that someone’s been messing with the American mind.
It might just be the Republicans who have been chipping away at our democratic processes for several decades.
Sowing doubt and discord has always been the formula for Russian disinformation.
Who took the bait when Bernie was warned about Russian election interference. Biden and Buttigieg made hay with just that little tidbit. Nicely played, Mr. Putin. He’s infected Americans with the political heebie-jeebies and we’re starting to see Russian trolls in the bushes.
Why not look at Hillary Clinton to see if she threw her election? She certainly did much to thwart her own efforts: “basket of deplorables”, not campaigning in PA, OH, and MI in the final weeks, dragging out the private email server issue for months by not just immediately saying it was a mistake, etc.
Gee! Who can you trust? Maybe we’re out of control and need a strongman to set us right?
We actually need a government and news media that will dig up the truth and tell us what election interference actually looks like when it’s right in front of us. What do those hundreds of Russians do all day in their troll factory? Hmmm!
1
Specifically it is Trump, McConnell and all of the Republicans, who, on a daily basis, are aiding, defending, encouraging and enabling Putin and the Russians to attack our election system and democracy!
Republicans have continued to "promote politically driven falsehoods that so clearly advance Russian interests". (Dr. Fiona Hill)
They continue to indulge in actions that " impedes or subverts the national security of the United States in order to further domestic political or personal interests." (Dr. Fiona Hill)
Trump, McConnell and the Republicans have obviously been "stonewalling" any attempt by Congress, to protect our elections!
It's time for drastic action! All Democrats must speak out strongly and loudly, accusing the Republican party, the party of Putin, of sabotaging democracy and not fearing of insulting their "colleagues on the other side of the aisle"
During the 1950’s and 60’s in America, those sympathetic to communism and Russia, were called “Pinko’s”! Democrats should be saying; “the Pinko Republican party is now the party of Putin”!
4
We’ve spent in the neighborhood of $700 billion a year on military for decades and now it appears that the most effective tool against us is a few thousand keyboard warriors and Fox News. There is no end to the stupidity in this country.
3
What has CurrentOccupant done that benefits Russia/Putin? What has he done to limit or dis-empower Russia/Putin?
Answer those questions honestly and you'll know whether the Oval Office is occupied by Putin's Puppet.
1
A fractious country of 300 plus million divided by geography, race and politics and only one man can control us - a two bit despot from Russia. There is no interference other than our intelligence agencies and their media lackeys.
Get real! McConnell, Fakebook and the Russians will make sure #45 gets another turn. It’s the dream team that destroys the American democracy.
2
“Russia Wants to Meddle in Our Election”
No, Vladimir Putin is engaged in a continuing large-scale attack on democracy around the world.
Trump and the GOP are refusing to acknowledge the existence of this attack, and are even aiding it, because it is designed to benefit Trump.
That is Treason, and the American people should understand this.
The Democrats should focus all their efforts on creating a broad, unified front against Trump and the GOP.
The survival of American Democracy is at stake.
Vote Blue, no matter who!
6
Intelligence officials started the anti Russia panic. Guys like Schiff hype it to demagogic extremes. These people are jumping through the hoops of John Brennan of CIA torture fame. They have been trying to get Trump with this non sense since 2016 and have failed. Now the NYTs and the Democratic establishment want to short circuit Bernie Sanders. Intelligence officials opine, with no proof, Sanders is being used by the Russians. Putin is sitting in the Kremlin seeing the irony. Endless false accusations by the corporate news media and the Democrats about Russian interference that completely deranges the election. Thankfully for Sanders he has a positive message grass roots mov't. that defies all these crazy efforts to bring him down. Trump hasn't been harmed at all as his numbers in the polls stay about the same. This Russian interference game the NYTs wants to play only hurts their journalistic reputation.
1
A finger pointed at others is always accompanied by three bending and pointing back at self. Mr. Warzel is to be commended for the clarity and forthrightness.
Thank you, Charlie Warzel, for injecting some reason into this story.
A few Facebook posts do not rise to the level of “meddling” in the election.
Noise on social media is presently a fact of life. We know very well that motivated humans, especially ideologically motivated ones, will find whatever signal they want in a bunch of noise.
The raw intelligence needs to be made public.
Until then, the Times should bury the Russia-is-meddling-again narrative. I’d suggest giving it two paragraphs on page B23.
There is a high a risk we are being played — by somebody. Including, possibly, Trump’s intelligence community. When you don’t know who the sucker at the table is, it’s you.
1
Mr. Warzel, your essay is factual and clear.
Sadly, that's become more rare these days. I am deeply concerned.
It would be helpful if the NYT would include trolling as a reason to flag comments in their Facebook posts. I just outed a Russian troll and reported them, but there was no applicable term listed as a reason for the report. "Harassment" seemed to be the least inaccurate choice.
1
Well of course these divisive memes would find a willing and practiced audience to take them up among the Mainstream Media and the "moderate" intellectuals and academics: they're the same McCarthyite attacks that have maintained them in power and destroyed their left-wing competitors down to the present day.
I guess nobody really expected that 51 of America's finest (they've got to be the finest since they are selected by the people to hold the greatest responsibility, don't they) would so quickly throw all their moral, ethics and understanding of the constitution aside in order to get a pat on the back from one of the least charming men in human history.
Who could imagine?
1
The candidates using that canard to blame Sanders was beyond the pale. It looked a lot like desperation.
Please explain why we should believe anything said that originates in the white house. They contradicted their own announcement. Who profits from taking these rumors seriously?
Let us allow fairly administered literacy tests as a qualification for voting.
Yet another argument for reforming, perhaps one should say rationalizing, the electoral process. Hold social media companies responsible for what they publish. Reduce the time spent on the campaigns. Limit the amounts any individual or campaign can spend. No more gladiatorial contests to see which "mainstream" media company can ask the dumbest questions -- i.e. primary debates as currently structured. Eliminate the Electoral College. Unlikely I know, but I can dream.
Warzel attempts to analyse past Russian interference in US elections. He provides no context of whether the Russian interference in the last presidential election had any real impact on the US election. If anything, the Russian story adversely impacted Trump more than Clinton.
The Russian card was played cynically and continuously by the Democrats.
Anyone from NYC, where I grew up, should recognize the NY sarcasm in Trump's statement suggesting the DNC should ask Russia to help find the papers hacked from their security system. Not the single brain-dead head of House Judiciary Committee.
Trump and family were accused of business dealings with the Russians. Yes, those dealings that were encouraged by the US govt over several presidencies, including both parties.
Trump campaign officials who attended conferences in Moscow were accused of collaboration with the enemy when such Democrat luminaries as Bill Clinton and Obama had attended and many received large speaking fees.
And the Steele dossier on the front pages with accusation of sexual depravity and potential for blackmail of Trump was later determined by the FBI to be unverified and unverifiable.
Later the Dossier was used to mislead the FISA court into surveillance of Carter Page as entry for spying on the Trump campaign. Of course the application failed to identify Page as a US Naval Academy graduate and Naval Officer who briefed US officials after work in Russia.
Who was affected most by Russia? Not Hillary.
@edward smith : Why won't Trump release his tax returns? Why did Trump destroy the interpreters notes from his conversation with Putin? Why won't Trump release the actual transcript of his phone call with Zelensky? Why has Trump sued to keep Congress from seeing his banking records with Deutsche Bank? You don't see a pattern here?
Why is American meddling in foreign elections not part of this conversation? The US has been VERY active in influencing the election of foreign leaders including in Russia.
1
An intelligent piece of writing -- and also, one piece of a highly complex set of causes of our disintegrating culture.
Nonstop news from numerous media sources all aimed at generating profit -- though some have lofty missions -- means creating more and more "energy" from reporters and thus listeners. But it all becomes draining.
We've yet to figure out how to "adapt to this information war," so we have ranged from numb inaction to rage to despair to divisiveness. Trump and gang have capitalized on that superbly. And the media have not helped, if unwittingly.
Putin may be capitalizing on this syndrome. But we in America are doing little to get our own act together, I fear: witness the Dem debates, which we believe are necessary to winnow the field.
In a sad, sick way, Trump is the outcome of our own design: over-consumption, global domination for decades, environmental damage, economic disparity, and more. Hopefully we can repair all this sooner than later -- finding ways to establish values and actions that give us a country that cares for everyone, for the planet, and for authentic life.
2
I keep wondering what the Russians are actually doing. It makes sense to me that "helping" Bernie Sanders is actually helping Donald Trump. It worked that way back in 2016 and we learned later some of what the Russians had done.
The overarching goal of fomenting division and distrust seems to have continued unabated. The emphasis on Russians also weakens dismay at what our own indigenous meddlers are up to.
As long as information is classified, it's open to interpretation and what we believe about it is often even more harmful than the truth. I don't see any way out of this dilemma.
This is what happens when the person who is supposed to be watching out for American National Security is actually on the receiving end of the benefits of chaos.
For the last 3 1/2 years, while we, the American people, should have been learning from the 2016 interference about what to watch for, how to recognize disinformation and the methods that were used and how they worked, our president and the GOP were dismissing what happened. They were actually sowing more doubt and more confusion.
So, of course, when just a fraction of the whole picture emerged last week, people want to fill in the spaces. And they did - with speculation, rumor and suppositions, not facts. People prefer pure fantasy to not knowing something for sure.
To counter this, any intelligence regarding election interference should be de-classified and shared fully with the public. It is the only way that disinformation can be dealt with - with sunlight.
6
Agreed! Imagine how different the lay of the land would be if Trump and his GOP followers had actually supported our intelligence agencies and their findings.
3
As long as Facebook, Google and other internet companies are not responsible for what they publish, there is nothing we can do.
It is the wild west.
15
@Jane To do that you would make these companies a dictatorship who police what we say and think. Do you want to take away our freedom of speech and thought?. How can social media police their sites no way without destroying our freedoms. This Russo-phobia just hides the fact our Intel budget is 100 times Russia's. We don't only interfere we just overthrow governments.
As long as people go to social-media for their news and consider the statistics of likes and re-tweets as indicators of veracity we are not only easy targets, we are willing targets begging to be lied to in order to support our predispositions and biases.
As long as we prefer opinion and entertainment to actual news reporting that is what we are going to get from the news media.
What "sells" isn't the actual truth, but it makes money for the owners of the media and as the SCOTUS once ruled: "the only duty of a corporation is to increase shareholder value"
As one who likes actual news, I find myself in a news desert dying of thirst. There are a few oasis' but they are few and far-apart.
9
Many people who decry Russian meddling seem to have forgotten that Russia is no longer communist or socialist and that any Sanders successes would pose an ideological threat to today's Russia, whereas the failure of Sanders as president would reaffirm the Russian abandonment of their socialism.
4
Thank you for having the courage to call out the irresponsibility of some of your fellow columnists as well as competing candidates who are trying to blame Sanders for Russian propaganda.
The whole Democratic establishment can't figure out why Sanders is winning. They say his refusal to say what the focus groups want to hear makes him unelectable -- but he's winning precisely because people want an honest, straightforward president who says what he believes. Even people who don't agree with every one of his positions can see that he's not going to spend every day in the White House telling lies, as the present occupant does.
So, he likes the Cuban education system? Right or wrong, good for him for saying so, even though it's obviously not the "safe" thing to say.
20
@Brian Harvey But, "Telling it like it is" is exactly what many of my neighbors tell me is Trump's greatest selling point. The fact that most of what Trump says is fact free doesn't affect them at all. They excuse his crudity as, "He is a business man."
What both Bernie and Trump bring is resentment against the system. With Trump, its liberal elites and "The Deep State. With Sanders, it "Banks", the "Insurance Industry" Billionaires and Wall Street" in short economic and social resentment against "The Toffs" to borrow from the Brits.
Both men are exploiting resentment and a feeling of being neglected.
2
Maybe we should treat foreign interference like a virus and make flu shots.
Our most reputable news organizations could offer a short primer on fake news, false accounts, etc. The primer could show what interference and propaganda have looked like, harms they have caused (e.g. privacy violations, ill-informed vigilantism, etc.), and how to distinguish frauds.
Our state/federal government could make it part of a middle school civics requirement. We could get internet literacy, critical thinking, and research integrity to kids before they split off into college, vocational, and other tracks, and meet them at the age when so many are becoming or are already digital natives. They could probably help their parents ditch the propaganda and help report frauds.
This is not necessarily an easy program. Ideally, we would test alternatives and see which best prepares different age groups to discern recent fiction from fact. Since it would have significant potential to encounter trouble in anti-vaccine and certain faith communities, it’s unlikely a single shot would be perfect for any state or any season’s flu (update them).
At the same time, it seems like we could do more to integrate fact-checkers into education. We plainly need an informed, critically equipped public to sustain this democracy into the internet age. I imagine many schools already have shots going, but it sounds like there’s a lot of room for improved potency and reach. There’s much to do and much we can accomplish.
7
Your points are important and plausible, but how does one determine “reputable” news organizations? The Atlantic, Fox News and the NYT perform similar tasks of reporting events to the public yet they all have different missions. Who would choose the reputable ones and what qualifications would that group need?
Offering a civics class to a seventh grader that includes internet literacy with the hope that the teenager will in turn help her or his parents with the struggle seems as far fetched to me as Americans clamoring for Socialism. You identify a deficit in critical thinking and assign the American education system the task to solve it. If past performance is any indication of future results, I wouldn’t hold my breath. When should society demand that parents step up to the plate and invest in their children? Honor and integrity of your family used to mean something until the family unit was battered and kids were taught ideas that the individual held rights and powers that were more important than the rules and laws of states, or the honor or duty to your family.
We used to have 4-5 sources of broadcast news, and maybe 25-50 major sources of print media, that’s it. The reporter pool had talents equivalent to a symphony orchestra in a major city. Today, there are thousands of sources of news, many, many “reporters” who work for them. There are many reporters today with garage band qualifications, and their efforts produce news of varying veracity and quality.
Disgusted by Sanders on the debate saying the only people who will vote for Bloomberg are the rich. That Bernie is so completely wrong. I am not rich, but a worker bee. I appreciate that Bloomberg worked for his money and does not accept money for his campaign - this means he will not be bought, unlike you! And Bernie by the way fess up about the Russian influence, and guns. Jeesh really appalled.
4
@Oh My I understand your concern about campaign finance and that's one of the reasons I like Warren: she is clear that the way we currently allow money in politics has corrupted the process. But Bloomberg is a creature of his environment, and to think he he "won't be bought" is naive. He is already owned by the system which created him. Do you really think he is going to police the financial system for corruption? Institute campaign finance reform or consumer protections that will cost banks and investment houses some money? Take a strong stand for human rights against foreign governments who have enriched him beyond most of our ability to comprehend? It's just not realistic to think so.
1
Russians wouldn’t do it if so many of the American people hadn’t become ignorant and gullible. Is it any wonder why education and literacy should be at the top of each candidate’s list. And why aren’t legitimate news organization policing there own rather than playing along.
26
.... and yet, when a Democratic candidate praises a successful literacy program, he's fired upon by other Democrats.
1
“There are a lot of things we don’t know about Russian meddling” you don’t say.
Here is one: why would Russia even want to interfere? What would they gain exactly?
So far the rather circumvential ‘conclusions and assessments’ didn’t produce anything of value. And Russia lost economically after Americans voted Trump in. That’s a fact.
During the Cold War American efforts to infiltrate and ‘loosen up’ Warsaw Pact countries from within was official policy, widely advertised and promoted.
7
@waldo,
"What would they gain exactly?"
Because in much of the rest of the world, your country is defined by your nation (i.e.; your racial, ethic, linguistic, and/or religious identity). And America stands as a giant repudiation of that type of definition. Not to say that America is perfect, far from it. But America is evolving faster than any other country, and that scares Putin. Which other developed nation has elected, twice, a head of state and government of African blood? Only the United States of America. That ability to evolve is what threatens Putin.
12
@Charles Becker
If anything, America is devolving.
The status quo protecting Establishment never noticed, but the American Dream died decades ago.
Relative to other developed countries, America is an extraordinarily violent country, and has the world's highest rate of incarceration.
America has obscene, colossal and growing inequality of opportunity, income and wealth, where the richest .1percent take in more than the bottom 90 percent.
I want to see proof of Russian meddling in our election.
Maybe they are just teasing America with revenge for the serious election meddling America has done to Russia.
@waldo They gain chaos and destruction of a sense of national pride and unity. "Russia" may have lost economically (I have not fact checked that yet but suspect that any economic downturn Russia is undergoing has to do with factors other than the folly of Trumpism) but you can bet the oligarchs have gained tremendously. Putin is one of the wealthiest people on the planet and he didn't get there by creating a disease cure or technology that helps people. Energy and the military industrial complex underpin his wealth. Ask Mitch McConnell why he killed sanctions designed to punish election meddling - or maybe just note that weeks later Rusal invested multi millions into an aluminum plant in rural KY. In short they gain far more than can be covered in a NYT comment post.
2
Our educational system has fallen short. Distracted by post modern false gods the classic values have been abandoned. Considering myself a progressive, I hew to a very strict equal rights for all credo. It’s a simple plan that will float all boats, if ever implemented.
7
Actually nobody really has to do anything to interfere.
All one needs are a few gullible journalists in general, I am not describing Mr. Warzel, to claim that there is interference and after that twitter and the internet take over.
A perception is enough to get the ball rolling. Then the quest for "facts" and "proof" push the process along.
If there is by some chance real interference, and we will never know, then it is obfuscated by "fake" interference.
I wonder why the Russians are interfering in the elections for our apartment house committee.
8
It might mean educating people about the world outside America.
It might mean educating people about history and taking the long view (while still fighting the day's battles), because otherwise there's no direction and it's just perpetual reacting.
It might mean spreading the money around a bit to ease the pain, because otherwise there's no incentive to cheer for democarcy.
4
Warzel's column provides a well needed reality check as well as a pause to stop and reflect on Russian meddling. I especially am angered by the secrecy of our own national government - under Obama and now Trump - in revealing and fighting what is taking place.
What Warzel has not fully considered:
1. How do you assess the impact of Russian meddling on its own versus how it may be in conjunction with other like forms of social media? For example, how many real social justice sites are out there similar to "Blacktivist"? My take would be that these real sites and their impact far outweighs anything created by the Russians.
2. How many other other foreign nations, directly or indirectly, are also attempting to influence America's elections (and policies)? This could be soft influence, like social media, or hard influence, like campaign donations from wealthy Americans with foreign ties. I would suspect the likes of China, Israel and Saudi Arabia are more subtly and effectively impacting America's politics (and policies) than Russia, both outright and through more nefarious means. The Kremlin is so ham-fisted, and gleefully so it would seem, in extolling what may really be its rather paltry influence compared to these other players.
I think most Americans have filtered out the discord that Russia may be sowing, especially when compared to the other more astute players that have not be exposed. And this is shameful negligence by our leaders and national security teams.
5
@Common Sense But as you say, we don’t really know what the relative impact of Russia’s influence is: that’s exactly why we can’t just blow it off as you seem to be suggesting. The more we ignore it, the more powerful and subtle it can be.
1
Where have all the patriots gone? It belies reason that our best and brightest are absent without leave. How can such a beautifully endowed country be left without citizens willing to stand, bear witness, and fight for its very survival?
7
@RjW
"The best and the brightest"... that phrase always recalls the David Halberstam book, "The Best and The Brightest, referring to those ivy league graduates, who, clueless to reality, kept the Vietnam war going... nowhere.
Those same best and brightest, still clueless, never noticed the death of the American Dream decades ago. Clueless, they never noticed the obscene, colossal and growing inequality of opportunity, income and wealth, where the richest .1 percent take in more than the bottom 90 percent.
They are oblivious, or don't care, that America has the world's highest rate of incarceration.
What is your idea of a patriot?
I'd say patriots are those wildly varied crowds of Sanders supporters willing to work for his revolution to revive the American Dream and for America to live its ideals.
It is not Russia, but the status quo protecting Establishment that is trying to block the way.
6
@Lucy Cooke
It is both. Both belong to the global hydrocarbon elite. Both Putin and Trump want to sew division so that this elite can protect their wealth. For example, how can we go after the tax havens if we can't proceed multilaterally?
4
The Russian dictators are paranoid of the strength of our democratic society and our affluence build on openness of the press and diversity of our people. They would do better taking the time to start meddling in their own authoritarian society and by doing so replicating what we in the United States enjoy.
5
@TS
Hmmm...I honestly can’t think of any country filled with well-meaning and intelligent people that would want to ‘replicate’ what is so enjoyable for you.
2
It is becoming difficult to accept that Russian meddling is any worse than that of the establishment parties. What is Fox News but propaganda for the 1% and religious zealots? Think of the last time Fox said anything positive about a Democrat. Never happened. Wapo and the Times have clearly been purchased by Bloomberg and the like - just look at the outlandish praise for a candidate that basically is rich and that's it. Until today, media like the Times has formed an all-out assault on Sanders when they weren't attacking Warren despite the fact that the former and once the latter are and were the will of the people.
4
Buncho BUNKology. Putin's check is in the mail.
2
I verified this. I just checked under my bed and Trotsky says it's all true.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
5
So what’s really new about all of this fake news?
All you need to do is tune in to Fox to get your daily fix.
12
Wait a minute! "We" are not helping Russia interfere in our elections. The Republican Party is. It is the Senate GOP that refuses to pass legislation that would substantially block Russia's interference. Why not a word about that fact?
And "there's very little information about the scope of interference"? Really? Seems to me that Congress received a very detailed intelligence briefing about exactly how Russia is interfering from the Director of National Intellligence.
Bottom line: Russia helped put Trump in office, and Russia continues to help him stay there. And that means Trump is an agent of Russia.
47
@Sean
For starters, because it's not a fact just because you believe it to be true.
Roger Ailes cut his propaganda teeth at MSNBC before establishing Fox News. Rachel Maddow spoke highly of his mentorship after he died. Jeff Zucker modeled the CNN lineup after his reality show successes.
So whether you like it or not, it very much is a "we" problem.
The director of the DNI, Clapper, Brennan and the rest of the talking heads love to spew about Russian interference but omit one key fact. They never give any examples of what it looks like so that people know what to watch out for. Why?
When some public danger is afoot, the relevant authority doesn't just announce the threat in vague terms. They tell you not to buy lettuce of brand X sold in states A, B and C because it has e-coli in it.
They tell you to buy N95 masks and wash your hands frequently to protect yourself against COVID-19 and the spread of germs.
What to the talking heads specifically say about Russian interference? Nothing. What's the takeaway from that? Don't vote for Trump or Sanders because that's what Putin would want you to do? Gimme a break.
Press translations of Russian have proved inaccurate and a joke. When Putin called Trump "bright" the press jumped on that to say that Putin meant "smart". Later they retracted that because it turned out he meant "sparkly" and "gaudy".
Buy a Russian-English dictionary first.
6
What Putin wants to do is to weaken our country by undermining & destabilizing democracy. Unfortunately, he is easily able to do this by using the internet to foment alienation & resentment among groups of American voters who are already apt to be feeling alienated & resentful. I doubt Putin cares much who gets elected president, but the ongoing breakdown of our two traditional governing parties, and the rising tensions between them, must fill him with delight.
6
People are driven to stupidity by their loneliness.
Facebook, Twitter etc. are stupid. PLEASE leave these platforms and talk to your real, human neighbors instead.
31
The US is also helping Putin's meddling because our president is clueless and he's gutting our intelligence services.
21
I guess you're right. I thought the Russian help for Sanders was a double trick. But maybe it was meant only to sow discord. The espionage game is full of double and triple tricks. With social media, it's hard to know what, if anything, is true anymore. Combine that with the ramifying complexity of society, and trust would be hard to have even with perfectly reliable sources. Reality is just much more dense these days. It takes a lot of cognitive energy to make sense of it. I hope things get better. But that means people will have to think through things.
5
What I don't understand is how these briefings don't contain information about our response in terms of crippling Vlad's ability to continue meddling. A bankrupt state is bringing down our model democracy, such as it is, with a handful of laptop computers, Nokia flip phones, and 20th century propaganda tactics. Vlad needs a hard shot to the chin, with a promise of more to follow.
1
@CJ You want to start a war with Russia because they are sending out tweets and memes? This great American experiment, brought down by our vulnerability to social media?
6
@CJ
I think we would have to have more of a response than, "Can I give you a hand with that?"
1
People have willingly let the world be pulled over their eyes to protect them from the truth for a long time. Recently I discovered a very smart person who I though I knew had begun to believe no-moon-landing conspiracy theories. When I explained the simple fact that it would easier and more effective use of resources to just go to the moon rather than to develop the technology to fake it, he couldn't address that. People are a gullible lot.
8
Excellent commentary. We are awash in propaganda, including from “news” sources. The US had a fairness doctrine, primarily as a response to political propaganda. It may smell of censorship but maybe its worth it.
5
“What exactly do these intelligence officials mean by “interference”?”
The report on “interference” cited RT allowing the Presidential candidates who were censored by US media (Gov. Gary Johnson and Dr. Jill Stein) to occasionally appear on their programming.
In other words, our intelligence community thinks letting voters hear from all their choices for President constitutes “interference”.
8
@Charles, Perhaps there is intelligence indicating that Russia is aware that third party voters throw elections in our two-party system with an electoral college and winner-take-all distribution of votes.
5
It is wild hyperbole to claim that Johnson and Stein were “censored” by domestic media. They appeared regularly on cable shows (remember the disaster of “what’s Aleppo?”).
RT is wholly owned and controlled by the Kremlin. It’s promotion of 3rd party candidates was not some benign act of transparency. To imply otherwise is disingenuous.
4
@Leonard
Perhaps you're a paranoid conspiracy theorist who - unlike a majority of Americans - was satisfied with the so-called "major party" choice of the two most hated Presidential candidates in history.
3
Thank goodness. Finally, some big media sanity in the Great Red Scare. I disagree with one important point, that journalists are somehow obligated to report a never ending stream of "according to people familiar with the matter" intel leaks. Shame on us for not demanding better, especially from the MSNBC retirement home for former generals and spooks.
The rest of the article is great, though. Amplifying cracks in the facade. Russian trolls didn't somehow magically convince people to view Iowa as ineptitude on a grand scale. Americans leaning strongly towards populism haven't been brainwashed by the Kremlin.
Does Russia field propaganda aimed at fostering internal turmoil and counteracting an enormous difference in economies and military spending? Of course it does. I'd love to see a Russian report detailing the measures of effectiveness.
We sent out a million tweets bemoaning student loan debt and criticizing Hunter Biden's cushy Ukraine job. Well comrades, we are happy to say that we successfully got Americans to complain about crushing debt and to question whether Biden's name helped him get that weird job. This is difficult work comrades, but we remain up to the task. If we can get more funding we can deploy better spell checkers. We'll be infinitely more effective.
3
Also worth mentioning: every 4 years we are reminded the MSM's increasing incapability to grasp the big picture and do anything other than to try to make people fight...
7
One thing we can count on. As long as Trump is in the White House, we will not learn very much about the extent Vladamir Putin and his cohorts are putting into their efforts to impact our elections. All Trump has to believe is that the interference is to support his re-election to condone, and probably welcome, it.
7
Some of the spin on Russian interference is self-serving, like the Bloomberg tweet you included. (though even so, it may be on-target.)
Other responses seem to be perfectly valid, like what you quote Secretary Clinton as having said. It's perfectly valid. She's right--and not just, or even mostly, because of recent reports.
You need to distinguish between self-serving and disinterested. (Mrs. Clinton is not running for office, and does not have, as far as can be determined, any ulterior motive for such a comment.)
More generally, you seem to think that the best way to treat Russian interference--granted, we don't know all the details, as you say, and maybe we never will--is to avoid getting too excited about it.
Shouldn't we be greatly concerned about this fundamental threat to the fairness of our elections? Shouldn't we be beating on Congress' teakettle to at least try to foil this, every way they can? Especially since the president practically begs for it, and profits from it?
Your prescription does not really seem to remedy the illness. It's a difficult disease to cure, for sure, but just cautioning everyone to calm down seems unlikely to stamp it out.
5
Mrs. Clinton has interfered in this election cycle far more than an army of Putins could dream of doing. Her disgusting and unfounded smears of a US Senator and a US Representative (Bernie Sanders and Tulsi Gabbard) show to just what irrational and irresponsible lengths the elitist elements of the DNC will go to discredit the only sincere candidates with proven progressive (and anti-militaristic) voting records.
11
@Charles It hardly needs pointing out that Mrs. Clinton is an American citizen, and made her comments openly. She is entitled to her opinions, whether or not we agree with them, and even though she might be well advised at times not to express them,
There is no comparison with the covert interference by Putin, who is a foreign enemy of the United States.
You seem not to appreciate that those two trains are running on entirely different tracks, and the issue is not whether you agree with Bernie Sanders' policy positions or not.
10
@Just Ben
As an elder stateswoman, her opinions are influential and believed by some. That's why they're broadcast on national tv, and that's why she keeps making them.
To make the ridiculous claim that a respected member of Congress and decorated military person is a Russian agent is not a small thing. It's not just an opinion. It's a serious accusation that deserves explanation or retraction.
She spared no punches condemning the unfounded lies spread about herself. It's more than a little ironic that she now engages in the same smears and propaganda she claims to abhor.
6
Bravo!
Frankly, I'm surprised to find apolitical analysis in the Times. I usually have to go to other places.
More, more!!
16
“Foreign election meddling — vague a term as it is — is a continuing process. It has ebbed and flowed since 2016”
No, it ramped up following World War II, practiced mostly by the US (yes, including in Russia).
6
@Charles Well, huh, if we could travel through time, this would be so relevant.
2
It seems to be the media that is playing into the Russian hands. They print a quote from obscure ice cream vendor and position it as belonging to a large segment of our population. Then create a story around it. Just look at some of the important stories that are printed and judge for yourself.
6
"Is it an uptick in the garden-variety attempts to sow discord via fake social media accounts or large, hyperpartisan Facebook groups or pages?"
Warzel's implication is that such attempts are not significant. Garden-variety or not, they are extraordinarily significant. We now know much more than we knew in 2016. For instance, we know that both the Trump and Sanders bases are more readily exploitable by these activities than the population at large. We know the Trump and Sanders bases are disproportionately susceptible to conspiracy theories. As described here in an Edsall column, we know that the Trump base and to a less extent the Sanders base share a desire to "burn society to the ground." Similar forces were at work in 2016. The number of Sanders voters who voted for Trump in the swing states was two to six times larger than Trump's victory margins in those states. In a close election, these activities could very well change the outcome. To be sure, we as a society have not been able to do anything about this election sabotage. Facebook, Twitter and Google have been unwilling to do anything about it. But those things don't make such activities insignificant. By failing to protect us, the White House and the Congressional Republicans have been transparently self-interested. By refusing to do anything, Facebook, Twitter and Google have been de facto collaborators with and on behalf of Trump et al.
9
@Robert Well if Sanders can pull away Trump supporters, he is our best candidate. Pragmatic enough for you. Perhaps you'd consider discussing the issues?
1
@Dave
"Well if Sanders can pull away Trump supporters, he is our best candidate. Pragmatic enough for you. Perhaps you'd consider discussing the issues?"
I have no idea what you are talking about. This isn't an opinion piece about who is the best candidate. The issue here is Russia interfering in our elections. That is precisely the issue that I addressed.
4
@Robert
Your argument makes no sense. Both the Trump and Clinton campaign spent millions of dollars on social media advertising.
Unlike Clinton's team, Trump's team took Facebook up on their offer to explain how Facebook advertising works. As a result of this training, Trump's campaign team rolled out many more unique ads than Clinton's team. In their genius, they rolled out the same set of ads no matter who they were targeting.
Yet with all these failures, we're supposed to believe that a bunch of trolls who spent at most $150K (according to both Facebook and the FBI's report) and they were more effective and captured more eyeballs than campaigns that spent millions on advertising.
Yeah, right.
3
With respect, the split between "establishmentarians" and "populists" might be news to some, but it pre-existed last week. Chris Matthews just made the point that he had long been awaiting the New York Times full and candid exposé of Sanders' incendiary baggage. Indeed. Where was it? What in the name of liberal tradition and ideals were people playing at to allow Bernie's c.v. to remain obscure until the doorstep of the general?
5
It always comes back to one thing. America's division by race is its fatal flaw. Since 1955 and Brown vs. Bd. Of Ed. the american people fled from and abandoned public efucation. We see the results slowly trickling in as the usa standard of living vs other countries continues to fall.
The chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank put it this way:
Here’s Powell’s explanation: “It’s a combination of things, no doubt. It is that educational attainment in the United States, which was once the highest, has really fallen relative to our peers. And particularly among lower- and middle-income people, the level of educational attainment has really plateaued. And that’s the key thing for keeping in the labor market these days.”
And also it is a key reason americans are so easily fooled.
36
@Joe Brown
I agree with you 100%; however, it wasn't Brown v. Board I and II that disrupted the educational process as you described, it was No Child Left Behind and the undue influence of neoliberalism and the power certain states had/have on the development of textbooks and curriculum, specifically the Common Core standards.
4
@Joe Brown Sorry
It was 1954.
1
I have to believe the Russians want Sanders as the Democratic candidate as he is perceived to be the weakest candidate head to head, against their golden boy donnie.
12
@John
You just did what the author of this article described as irresponsible and playing directly into the hands of adversaries seeking to divide.
So...nice work I guess?
29
@John Alternatively, that is what the Russians want you to believe so Dem voters will turn against Bernie and vote in a weak candidate. That's the beauty of voting for the Democrat candidate no matter who that man or woman is, it will get rid of trump.
11
@R So, the alternative to dreaming up a theory to explain what the Russians might be up to is... what? NOT thinking about the subject at all? Believing everything you read uncritically? DISBELIEVING everything uncritically? Maybe sitting in a corner sucking a thumb is the correct answer!
It is all well and good dreaming up strategies for professional journalists, but us ordinary folk need a strategy too!
2
in other words...question your sources and your FB 'news feed' is not news
10
American democracy has three extremely powerful enemies, all hell-bent on its destruction:
Vladimir Putin
Xi Jinping
Donald Trump
Unless everybody who understands this can link them in the minds of America's citizens, our democracy may not survive.
Dan Kravitz
92
@Dan Kravitz
You left out Mitch McConnell!
32
Charlie Warzel,
This is the best, truest, and most important editorial to be published to a national audience in many years. Our most dangerous adversaries' intent is to sow distrust, divide us, and delegitimize our institutions. This generation of Americans is being severely tested, and I fear that we are not even aware of that.
78
@Charles Becker I'm experiencing a lot of that distrust. Everything I read in the Horowitz IG report showed awful ineptitude by the FBI with respect to Carter Page. I read the Washington Post's incredible reporting in the Afghanistan Papers - American generals have some difficulty telling the truth. They're great at saying "progress is being made". My first thought after the Iowa fiasco was that we're almost definitely going to have claims of miscounts and inaccuracies in our next election. I hope that doesn't mean the Russians have implanted a chip in me.
6
Perhaps if Trump hadn't dismantled our intelligence agencies and law enforcement, we would have a meaningful response. As it stands, we are essentially at the mercy of Putin, McConnell, and Trump. I doubt that will end well for us.
121
@Peter Hornbein
"As it stands, we are essentially at the mercy of Putin, McConnell, and Trump. I doubt that will end well for us."
I would add Mark Zuckerburg to that list. It often appears that he is equally responsible for wrecking our democracy.
31
@Peter Hornbein If election interference is indeed Russia's intention it's a brilliant diabolical move. It's heads they win, tails they win. They know Sanders will split the party if he heads the ticket. Moderate suburban voters won't vote for Democratic Socialism. His nomination would also compel independent swing voters to hold their nose & vote for Trump again. Result: civil war in the Democratic party, Trump wins. If Sanders arrives at the convention with a huge lead in both votes & delegates but not enough to secure the nomination then his supporters will blackmail the DNC. The Democrats may conclude that they have no choice but to let Sanders go down in a McGovern style defeat. Result Trump wins. If Sanders loses the nomination outright to say Bloomberg the Bernie Bros will claim Russian interference & stay home. Result: Trump wins. Frankly, at this point, the Russians don't have to lift a finger for this plan to work. They've already injected a huge dose of doubt into the election. No matter what happens from here on out Sanders & his supporters will suspect the Russians knifed them whether they win or not. In the general election which they will lose in a landslide, they will again claim interference whether it exists or not. This will hobble Trump's Presidency with more Russian collusion investigations, impeachment hearings in which Trump will once again be vindicated. The net effect: the country will be further polarized with Congress in perpetual gridlock mode.
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@Peter Hornbein
Where have all the patriots gone? It belies reason that our best and brightest are absent without leave. How can such a beautifully endowed country be left without citizens willing to stand, bear witness, and fight for its very survival?
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One of the quotes was that no one had learned from 2016 ... I disagree trump has not only learned but has exceeded his mentors expectations Putin is really extremely happy and will continue as long as he can
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“As the KGB defector Yuri Alexandrovich Bezmenov said in an interview all the way back in 1984, the end goal of meddling is to demoralize citizens so that ‘exposure to true information does not matter anymore.’”
And that approach works quite well. If it didn’t, the Russians (and others, the US included) would have given it up long ago.
How can the average American distinguish between real national-party propaganda supporting (or not) a particular political candidate and comparable propaganda spewed by foreign adversaries?
The answer: You can’t, particularly if you’re not an inquiring person. Without identifying the source and its reason for propagandizing, the two propaganda stories can’t be distinguished.
Moreover, because the propagandists can readily change their identities, it becomes a game of whack-a-mole for anyone attempting to regulate them.
Welcome to the internet and social media age in a nation where freedom of speech is our foundational Constitutional right.
The alternative: An authoritarian state that controls speech and the flow of information?
We can’t go there. But that may be exactly where our adversaries want us to go.
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@LynnBob
Interesting. An aversion to truth being the goal. Well, look, they’ve gotten 7/8 of the way there already. I feel close to those who know what’s happening and are willing to fight, or at least bear witness, even though I have not met these individuals.
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It's fun watching the left have a meltdown over a possible Sanders win. Be careful what you wish for comes to mind.
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@M
Oh, the Left is not melting down over a possible Sanders' win, the Left is melting down because our elections are no longer free and fair.
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You’re sliding right into propagandists’ hands.
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@M There is nothing fun about this. Nothing. But then, maybe you are with Trump thinking that a POTUS acting like a 4 year old while the National Anthem is playing is a funny thing, so I get where you're coming from.
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