Bear in mind that Weinstein's attorneys will appeal and higher courts may find that their arguments have merit. There was a supposedly biased juror and allegations of crimes which were previously never reported and for which Weinstein was never tried figured into the verdict. Hopefully, Weinstein's appeals will fail but it ain't over until it's over.
1
The greatest obstacle presented in the American legal system to successfully prosecuting abusers is the reluctance of the vast majority of victims to file a timely report of their abuse with the proper authorities. Your editorial should have placed greater emphasis on this point. Successful prosecutions have a multiplier effect: the more reports of such prosecutions are published, the more other women are likely to report the abuse they have suffered. This is a better approach than to abolish legal protections for the accused, such as statutes of limitations.
4
This verdict is a travesty of justice. Not only does it usher in an open-season mentality on any man who has ever had consensual sex, it degrades women in that it assumes that women are hapless victims, returning to "abusers" again and again.
These women did not complain at the time of the so-called "attacks" and therefore are insulting and degrading to legitimate rape victims. Weinstein is a pig, true enough but these were not innocent women fresh out of the monastery.
If someone raped me I don't think I would accept a job from them, appear in their movies, and let them take me out to dinner over and over and over.
These women were opportunists. And the justice system has just given them a big payoff.
150
@Phil
Generally, "These Women" did complain when they were attacked - to people and institutions they trusted.
Which were exactly as follows:
People: a small group of friends and sometimes relatives;
Institutions: none!
-Because they were dominated by patriarchy and weren't trusted by these women.
And, who could blame them? (except you, it would seem).
205
@Phil
If you think these women were just 'opportunists' looking for a career-boost, you might want to read the numerous investigative articles (see the New Yorker) which led up to this case, in which former employees of Weinstein spoke of a culture of complicity at Miramax, in which luring victims (and convincing them that nothing would happen if they went to his hotel room) was the norm. People had to meet this guy if they wanted to work in Hollywood, and he set it up so that they had to do so a certain way, if they were young women. To say no, or to speak out, meant to lose your livelihood.
As for your comment beginning 'if I was raped': you haven't been, so you don't know what that's like. The trauma, the shame, the knowledge that many people around you, plus law enforcement, often won't believe you. The fear that you might be blamed by guys like yourself. Add to that the system Weinstein set up to hunt down anyone who did speak up, and you might start to see why in fact, so few victims did come forward, in the beginning.
136
@Phil At the very least, so was Weinstein (an opportunist). So the justice system finally gave him the payoff he deserves as well. And, actually this was not a civil court proceeding, but criminal: so I don't think these women got any payoff from the justice system.
32
They heard about his reputation, and still kept filing into that hotel room.
4
February 25, 2020
We as a culture are all found guilty in how we mature and express our behaviors rationally - all about self esteem and character. How America educates itself and its purpose and with effective appreciation to engage in social / then added sexuality toward meaningful relations then and only then can we enjoy a more civilized collective humanity. This case is a positive actions in our America reality and spiritual that is a much a mental and health issue as a confrontational gender contest. Let's add our morality behavior in the presidential debates and all other leadership that are full concern with the best way of living well in pursuit of happiness......
2
Weinstein's not a monster though he acted monstrously. He's simply a poster boy for abusing his vast power in his industry and initiating coercive relationships, usually sexual, by cornering, cajoling, then forcing women to comply.
There are many more like him out there, some of them not even that powerful. But the relationship in power between abused and abused is always asymmetrical.
That is why we find some of the comments here so very dispiriting-- none of the victims deserve to be diminished in this way.
2
Statutes of limitation exist, particularly in criminal cases where one's freedom, not merely money, is at stake, because delay in prosecuting allegations of crime can result in lost evidence, faded memories, and dead or disappearing witnesses. These statutes have existed for centuries and have been adopted in all fifty states. If we are to remain a country where "it is better that 100 guilty persons should escape than that one innocent person should suffer," then we will keep statutes of limitations, even in sexual assault cases.
3
I'm just relieved the Weinstein verdict stops the abuse of women by Hollywood moguls before it becomes a trend.
1
Brian Stauffer's disturbing image accurately illustrates this sordid story of predation.
I agree that Weinstein is a pig who used his power as a film producer to coerce women into sexual relations. I also agree that these women had a choice, and were not hapless victims. Sure it would have stymied there career goals, but that is different then a single mom employed on a factory assembly line tolerating sexual harassment because she has limited options. Those are the women we should focus on.
4
Andrew Yang for Secretary of Labor.
1
The conviction is a watershed moment but its time to start holding the entertainment business accountable for allowing this type of god awful behavior to occur. I recently learned that Weinstein's misconduct was so well known that it was a few punchlines on the sitcom "30 Rock". Don't tell me that people were scared to say something when apparently no one was scared enough to joke about it publicly. It makes sense why they were so eager to throw money at the Times Up organization; they want desperately to be relieved of any responsibility.
2
There are a shocking number of commenters here who lament Weinstein’s guilty verdict. They say it bodes ill for consensual sexual relationships, that it paints women as victims without agency, that the women themselves are at fault for not speaking up sooner, etc, etc.
I want to ask those with such concerns why they feel so threatened by Weinstein’s guilty verdict. What is the reflex that compels you to howl UNFAIR! in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary?
If you flinch in the face of truth, ask yourselves why it hurts you so much.
4
Is there really a lesson in this trial?
The jury agreed that a woman can be raped, benefit professionally, and continue that benefit by maintaining an ongoing relationship with the rapist. Fair enough. The jury struggle with that concept, however, and ended up convicting on the lesser charges; perhaps they felt that the ongoing engagement with Weinstein raised questions of reasonable doubt.
The hundred or so young, beautiful women who had sex with Weinstein did not do so because they were irresistible attracted to an ugly old man, or because they were duped. They engaged in a quid pro quo which advanced their career. Perhaps they don't feel there is any reason to "come forward."
We haven't heard from the likely vast majority of women who willingly engaged in this deal. Would their stories provide a counterpoint to the "lessons" of this trial? No journalist would ever take on this task, because one of the tenets of the #MeToo movement is that you are not allowed to suggest that women may engage in sex for personal, professional, financial, or social gain.
Listen to the interview with Weinstein's defense attorney on the Times' podcast The Daily. It's eye opening.
7
As the office staff for a retail store I started an hour earlier then everyone else. Before the others came, (3 women) I was chased around a desk by a boss I despised, I got away from him. The 3 women came to work and saw me emotionally distraught and calmed me down. I went back to work and he cornered me in the storage room, again I got away. The next morning he threatened to fire me.
I am grateful to the people from Fair Employment and Housing who after making me tell my story numerous times, believed me and always supported me. I settled for $1000 and him having to put up notices about sexual harassment and informing employees of their rights. The women at work who stood up for me by testifying to my emotional state that day were later fired, all on the same day. After being humiliated several times at job interviews, I eventually lied on my resume to get a job.
If I had known these incredible women who supported me would lose their jobs; I would have done nothing. It wasn't my first or only #MeToo moment but it was the one that made me angry instead of ashamed and helpless. His punishment and notices were not worth their jobs.
The Weinsteins of the world are not stupid; they have money and power. #MeToo is women speaking up but we need more to end the abuse and assaults. While of course having physical evidence is great this case, wasn't he said, she said - IT WAS SIX she saids! This predator rapist should spend the rest of his life in prison.
3
@Ginaj Yours is a good story. I also have workplace stories.
This isn't the same. A "business meeting" in a man's hotel room, isn't exactly a workplace.
2
The Crucible, 2020.
2
What is highlighted in this trial is the extreme power differential between men in high places and the ladies who must negotiate with them for a place at whatever table is in question; in this case, work in the film industry in Hollywood. Many commenters below say these ladies should trash their ambitions and careers if a powerful man wants some kind of sex as payment for their chance to sit at the Hollywood table or open those legs or mouths and take what is required because that is the price of their ambition. These commenters obviously support this kind of culture. Now, these kinds of men also require sex of males who aspire to succeed as well and it is even harder for men to take on powerful men where sex exchange is concerned, in terms of becoming a social pariah.
We have had this kind of transactional culture for as long as we have honest records, and certainly, we see evidence of this in memoirs and letters. What this case did is chip away in a small way at the power differential between the powerful and those hoping to join the power class. This is an immense step, small as it is by itself. Let's hope this particular change spreads to all minds until meritocracy really does exist, not brutal transactionism.
1
@TDHawkes : don't support this kind of culture, as you say. Just that some things are more important than a successful career in film.
2
While this is good news, I have little faith in humanity's ability to be curious enough to understand the complex psychology of abuse. And it's a huge disservice to anyone who has experienced abuse in any form.
Look at abuse in families, in the church, in universities, in sports, in the military. It's all the same. The details are irrelevant. The powerful prey on anyone of lesser stature, those who need something, those with few options but to rely on the powerful for something, those who should be able to trust those in power.
And yet...over and over, we witness victim blaming. Why weren't they stronger? Why didn't they say no? Why didn't they tell the authorities? Why didn't they just leave home? Why didn't they quit their job? Why did they keep doing gymnastics that they trained their entire life for?
If you are one of those victim blamers, have a good long look at yourself and ask you why it makes you so uncomfortable to face the fact that this all-too-common abuse of power can take in even the strongest people. Get comfortable with the confusion as to why people remain with abusers. Sometimes it feels like the safer option even if it defies logic.
55
Let's not pretend this case or its verdict changes anything for the vast majority of women, those who are not beautiful, famous movie stars, or their faceless, nameless bosses who are not Hollywood moguls. This case got attention and resolution precisely because the creep and his accusers were well known, and worked in a business where public opinion has an immediate and direct effect. Who is going to demand justice for the waitress at the diner, the immigrant woman cleaning hotel rooms, the sales associate who has to meet her district manager in his hotel room on the road? How many young athletes did Dr. Larry Nasser have to molest before he was held to account? How many military women suffer PTSD not from combat, but from sexual assault? How many financiers are able to shield their bad behavior behind quiet payoffs and NDAs? Weinstein's case got attention because the glamour of celebrity and fame made people interested, and it may change some things in Hollywood where social media may hold abusers to account. But for most women, toiling in obscurity, perhaps not so physically attractive or with checkered pasts, or in careers that are still very much male dominated, whose stories will not go viral on social media, nothing has changed. Yes, the Weinstein verdict is a victory. But let's not overstate its magnitude.
4
Is this a "victory" or just a start on justice for women? Weinstein complained of chest pains and is in Bellevue Hospital today, rather than at Rikers. Maybe the pain was real, maybe not, but he will do everything he can to appeal the case and get out of his sentence. Over 80 women came forward to register complaints about him and some probably stayed silent too. Yet he was not convicted of predatory sexual assault. When I see Trump convicted, I may be convinced that women have had a victory.
2
Maybe I missed something, but could someone explain the graphic.
1
Casting couch
@Steve Beck
The legs of the couch are meant to symbolize vampire teeth.
As someone who was molested by a guidance counselor and kept silent for decades I have mixed feelings about this as I did when Bill Cosby was convicted. After my molestation, I made sure to never be near my abuser again. I completed my education and even when I went back to visit the school, I till made sure to steer clear of my abuser as an adult. I can understand the desire not to report the abuse as it may seem worse than the abuse itself. I do not understand keeping contact with an abuser who is not some family member when you're a child or prison guard as an adult. In all other cases you have control over who you see and work with. From what I have read of the accusers, many kept rather cozy relationships with him long after the alleged events with them initiating contact. I find this very difficult to understand given what I went through. I was also married to an individual who was a compulsive liar who would use the legal system as a weapon to hurt people. This rush to believe anything a woman says is quite terrifying to be honest and I think will have the effect of limiting women's ability to function in society with men equally.
4
What about the Board of Directors, the enablers, the society elites, the billionaires like Paul Tudor Jones? What are the consequences for them? Nothing, Nada, Not a damn thing. And the post respect for Cyrus Vance? Also part of the coverup, the heat just too hot in the kitchen for him. I’m disgusted with them all.
5
Am I the only person who finds the headline and accompanying illustration not only inappropriate, but also deeply disturbing? Something very ugly in the present social environment is being legitimized and even celebrated. Harvey Weinstein is not a monster. Even if he committed the crimes of which he has been convicted, Weinstein is a human being. The editors of this newspaper seem to have forgotten that essential fact. I suspect that at some point in the future -- and, hopefully, not too long from now -- the coverage of the case in the media will be subjected to a critical and harsh assessment.
7
Weinstein was simply “a target of a cause and of a movement.”?
The only thing that he started was the "cause and of a movement" in using his position to attack women, and what these women did were to stop Weinstein and brought him to justice!
Nothing more, nothing less, nothing simpler....
1
Thankfully, Weinstein is going to jail, Bill Cosby is in jail and many other high profile men in the entertainment industry have lost their jobs. The women who reported them were actors or people who wanted on-air news positions.
Is the Weinstein verdict going to help office workers, factory employees, waitresses and other women who are abused and/or raped and say nothing to keep their jobs and salaries, rather than those who want a face role in show biz?
4
@Lola I have the same concern. It seems as if the only people getting justice in this movement are victims who have media access or if the accused is a public figure. I continue to read and hear about how the Times Up organization, albeit well intentioned, has not been as successful for their clients that are not famous & they've turned away cases.
The bar has been lowered, that's all. I'm not outraged like Phil (below) is about a "travesty of justice" because of the imbalance of power and that the injustices of the past are very clear.
I will say this, though: the "women advocates" are short-sighted in crowing about this as a great "victory" for women. Even DA Vance said this is the "dawn of a new day", as if the law is merely responsive to the latest trend. If "believe the women" becomes "women carry the trump card with their say-so", then all you've done is kept the injustice and flipped its polarity. See, men and women are not hermetically sealed off from each other. Nearly every single woman has a husband, brothers, male relatives, male friends. All have fathers at some point. Is it possible one of these males could be falsely accused and, if so, do these "advocates" really want it to always be open-and-shut, as they seem to indicate?
Women have been accruing power to themselves relative to men at a breathtaking rate over the last 100 years. The effect on their men has been non-trivial (the "advocates" would sneer at this, of course). This is another massive shift, I will leave it to each of us to decide if it is entirely for the good. Men will change their behavior in response. Again. And women will notice.
3
So many factors make this not a typical case which should not be used to judge either the legal system, the women who claimed abuse or the way the system judges accused men. In one respect though, it is all too common. The prosecutors overcharged, seeking not just justice and conviction on the charges the laws of the State of New York allowed it to bring but on uncharged and unchargeable offenses from many years before. Weinstein was acquitted on the latter and some of the complaining witnesses used to establish those charges did not make believable witnesses, which is not to say they were lying. But the fact that so many of the women continued to have relationships with him when they were not directly economically threatened if they left or cut him off (like most working people would be anticipating a lost paycheck) tainted their credibility. A more surgical approach might have brought verdicts for the more serious degrees of charges that were allowed. But, the real problem here is the entertainment industry and its reputation as a place where women have been manipulated but where they themselves have been seen to have manipulated men using their attractiveness for success. A better test case awaits where ordinary women in the business world are harassed and abused just to hold on to white and blue collar jobs with no golden globe or oscar potentials.
3
Here's one more lesson to pass on to all those out there who one day may find themselves facing the likes of a Weinstein Weirdo:
#1....Run as fast as you can for the door screaming, "Rape!"
#2....Even more effective is to trust your instincts and avoid all such occasions of sexual innuendoes from a predator.
#3....Stay sober, turn on your antenna and if it buzzes, exit stage right or left as fast as you can. Call the police immediately thereafter.
You own your own body. Nothing promised you is ever worth giving it to someone else in exchange. Unless you choose it.
4
@Lake. woebegoner
so you are saying the onus is all on the woman?
How about teaching our sons that they have no claims on a woman's body or soul
6
1970. Told by DA that I would lose in court though a stranger had entered my home and raped me...dragging me outside barefoot and scared to death. I was not a virgin, you see. Glad that #MeToo happened in my lifetime.
111
@joan s so very sorry that you (and so many other women) had to go through that horrible era in our "criminal justice system". It was on the backs of victims like yourself that our elected and judicial officials got their collective heads screwed on correctly and began to correct the many systemic, misogynistic flaws. I prefer to look at the mixed verdicts in the Weinstein case as a glass half full. Time will tell.
2
We badly need a book on polite behavior in sexual matters , a Galateo - so to speak - for 21st century courtship. How can a man woo a woman without fear? We all understand that it is okay to woo her with quotes from Shakespeare and that it is gross and illegal to masturbate in front of her ( as Weinstein allegedly did) . But will a dirty joke get you in trouble? How about stealing a kiss on the cheek? on the mouth? Will a light touch on her breast cause a non disclosure agreement paid by the company that hired you? Weinstein finally go what he deserved ( and it is a scandal that he did not get it with his first offense). But what about the poor clumsy guy
who wants to see if he can "score"? We need a list of do's and don't's in courtship
3
@MS
the fact that you think that a 'light touch on her breast" or "wants to see if he can score" can ever be acceptable behaviour in the workplace says more about you than some mythical fear of being falsely accused. I can tell you -
5
@Alison Cartwright just relax and recognize irony when you see it .
So much of the Me Too movement is about the asymmetry of power between men and women. I’m an independent single female, almost 70 years old, and I still experience unwanted attention from men, to the point of stalking. I’m under no illusions about my physical desirability; I can only assume I’m a target because I’m not under the protection of a male partner. Easy pickings. It permeates every hour of every day, in the small calculations and maneuvers I take to try to stay safe. I’m so sick of it!
8
Getting a rich guy convicted of ANYTHING is tough. This is more likely to be something of a unicorn verdict - and it remains to be seen how much time he'll finally serve, or, how long he'll live anyway. He'll regret getting caught, but he'll figure he came out ahead anyway. Meanwhile, there is always be someone wiling to "play the game" - even a little, that puts everyone else at a disadvantage in claiming harm: "But, everyone else does it... Play along." Moving on, this is not a popular view, but there's something to be said for what the cops keep telling us about not leaving things in plain sight in our cars, locking garage doors, and, not opening the front door at night to strangers. If you're going to go see a "big fish" about a job, take someone with you - Mom, Dad, your lawyer, your agent, a friend, a note taker, a coat holder... Don't meet people alone in your room or their room - don't even open the room door - meet them in the hotel lobby. Etc. Etc. Etc. There will always be sleeze-balls in this world - you'll have to keep avoiding being sleezed... Yeah, it's "work," but it's easier, and cheaper, than getting hurt and then dealing with the legal system for a decade or more.
1
Another reason this is so important is that it shed light on the fact that ALL women are subject to abuse by men, even those who seemingly have perfect lives as actresses. It has nothing to do with socioeconomics, where you live, what race you are, how physically attractive you are, your marital status, etc. It has everything to do with the power dynamic that rules our society.
Growing up in Alabama in an evangelical Southern Baptist church where it was made abundantly clear that women were responsible for men’s sexual sins, I just assumed this type of abuse was limited to the South. I remember watching films and thinking wow, I wish my life could be like that. For me, Hollywood was always far removed from reality, so the Weinstein abuse was a wake-up call.
My 7th grade Sunday School teacher told girls (they separated us by gender in the youth group) that the best way to deter a rapist was to start picking our noses and make ourselves look as unattractive as possible. Really. Then she turned around and said that we had to dress modestly lest we make a man sin. I’m in my 30’s now, and I’m still angry with my parents, who are college educated, for making me sit through this crap every Sunday. But it takes all education levels to maintain this toxic social order. And unfortunately, it’s not limited to the South.
Having been sexually harassed in the workplace and told that it was my fault, THANK YOU to the brave women who stood up to Weinstein. We are all in this together.
5
Good news. Now we need #LittleMeToo to address the universal taboo that is violated every day all over the world - incest.
3
Totally disagree with you. You make women seem like their hopeless, weak cream puffs.
This type of illegal behavior was commonplace prior to app. 1980.
Women had very little recourse. It all changed circa 1980 and countless women complained sued and won. I saw many in the large corporation I worked in.
Then came the neo feminist me too hypocrites egged on by their media wing the NY Editorial Board.
Instead of doing what the original feminists did, they waited many yrs. to complain, only complained when the roles, raises stopped, accepted. money from the the predator Weinstein like NOW, Hillary, etc. etc. because he was supporting their causes or worse start the sexual activity.
The only thing as bad as a sexual predator is the enabler and co dependent. Predators live for them.
Ok let's here from the rationalizers, intellectualizers, bait and switchers, non predator male bashers, supporters of the weak female theory etc. etc.
My view does not apply to minors or immigrant women just in the country. They do not have the education, skill and power like most women do in America. So don't try that bait and switch tactic.
Again if you want to see another Weinstein growing in the next few yrs. and lasting for decades repeat the me too movement.
3
While Harvey Weinstein is absolutely a serial predator and reasonably described as a monster, it is imperative to note that the so-called #meToo movement (which has become shorthand for rape culture in clumsy writing that reduces countless centuries of violence against women into catchphrase that has nearly lost all power)—does not have a single monster. How many serial predators need to briefly splash the headlines for American society at large to digest the fact that this pervasive violence against women is common. When we phrase it in these easily packaged catch-phrase-able sound bites it diminishes the complexity, ubiquity and brutality of rape culture. Of course it is powerful that seemingly more women up speaking up and out about sexual violence. However, all of this media massaging of the phrase #meToo movement is beginning to feel and look like unwanted touch.
1
It’s good to see the monster behind bars where he belongs.
3
I am wondering what it says about a woman who defends men like Weinstein?
3
It showed how the greatest enablers and accomplices of these monsters - Weinstein, Epstein - are women.
4
If the woman wins every "he said, she said" account that could very easily result in jail time for the man,
why would any man ever want to be alone with any woman ever?
What evidence, other than her story, her word, put him behind bars??
1
And here lies the crux of the problem - in this culture, the general belief is that all women are liars, but men are not. Try trusting us a bit.
3
While the likes of Franken, Weinstein, Moore, Lauer, O’Reilly, Rose, Schneiderman, Moonves and others get exposed with serious consequences, there by the grace of god goes this self-confessed [ahem] grabber in the WH scot free to wreak havoc on the nation like the way he hypocritically disparages declared victims of sexual assault. His gross hypocrisy is galling.
Epstein avoids justice by committing suicide. trump avoids justice by becoming US president.
4
I thought the title contained too much spin.
1
my impression is that Weinstein was easy to bring down once the mob started shouting for blood.
3
The real lesson is the incredible difficulty of finding the spot on the continuum when consensual sex changes to a criminal act. Extending the statute of limitations doesn't address this problem; in fact there are the same good reasons for the statute of limitations in these cases as there are in other crimes (preservation of evidence and the fading of memory). These sexual crimes are just different in nature from most criminal acts and recognizing that fact would be a good first step to addressing the issue.
3
Weinstein’s lawyers did him no service.
Donna, your 15 Minutes is up.
@John Yes they did. He didn't get convicted of Predatory Sexual Assault & Rape 1st Degree. If he was convicted of those charges, Weinstein would never see the light of day ever again. So Rotunno did her job. If this was his only criminal case, he'd get a 5-25 year sentence (5 year minimum for his conviction) and would be released sometime after year 7.
What could keep him behind bars for much longer is the LA County charge.
The statute of limitations needs to go. If I have to live the rest of my life looking over my shoulder, so should my rapist.
104
@Barbara Lee The statue of limitations is key because you, as a victim of crime, need to be a citizen who reports crimes when they occur so that evidence, not just a story, can be gathered both to help convict bad actors, but also allow the accused a way to defend against it.
Convicting on stories is a new low, a return to the actual witch hunts that had as much evidence as this trial, lots of people claiming someone is evil and nasty, and there was no defense in showing the accused expressing affection back.
3
@Barbara Lee I believe that statutes of limitations should be eliminated for the worst crimes and extended for many others, but these statutes are there to protect citizens - innocent or guilty - from malicious prosecution & ensure the ability of a defendant to get a fair trial. Try defending yourself from any accusation that occurred 20+ years ago.
@Barbara Lee Statutes of limitations do have validity. Over time, memories fade, witnesses die or move away and are untraceable, etc. Evidence may get increasingly harder to gather. If enough time goes by, it may be impossible to get a conviction and prosecutors tend to concentrate on cases where convictions are likely.
Regardless of Harvey Weinstein, who left a trail of evidence and way to many witnesses that showed he was totally guilty, the #MeToo movement for all practical purposes is dead.
If Weinstein was an elected official, I wonder if the same verdict would have come down or worse yet if the case would have entered the judicial system at all...Be Best
1
While the “me too movement” was successfully launched by courageous women and Weinstein’s finally got his punishment. We now need a movement against the rapists if the economy “ #no more thievery. “
Perhaps Bill Cosby could offer Mr. Weinstein some helpful advice on adapting to his new surroundings.
1
Brian Stauffer’s illustration for article is terrific.
1
Almost every one of the Executives at the Financial Firm I worked at were fired for this kind of Sexual Abuse..
That they covered up for each other made it much harder to ferret them out.
About 8 Executives..
1
Harvey is clearly a pig.
But as Pamela Anderson so succinctly remarked, “Everyone in Hollywood has a rep. If you are an aspiring starlet and Harvey invites you over to his place to go over a script, what do THINK is going to happen?”
That pretty well sums it up.
6
The entertainment industry has always been exceptionally hard to break into, navigate, and be successful. Weinstein took advantage of those elements to satisfy his deviate sexual appetites. Compounding the issue were the hundreds (?) of people who "knew" and said nothing. As long as he held the power to hire, fire, promote, intimidate, threaten, control and direct he literally had his choice of victims. He raped, assaulted, forced, coerced, harassed and controlled these women as if they were, in his twisted mind, property. With his conviction hopefully a new day has dawned. Where people will be treated with respect and dignity.....time will tell.
1
Roxane Gay's book Hunger gives us her view of why she returned to the boy who was part of a group who gang raped her. Some of her story is similar to that of the women in the Weinstein case: perhaps they, like her, are enormously talented but don't believe that is enough. And that particular mysoginistic message, of not being enough, has come through loud and clear to generations of women.
3
Here's some of the lessons I've learned from #MeToo and Weinstein:
--For a predator to be prosecuted, you need a major newspaper, like the NYTimes, and a national magazine, like The New Yorker, to publish in-depth stories about the predator.
--The predator must have assaulted/raped for decades. One assault, on any one day, is not enough.
--There must be over a dozen victims. One is not enough.
--The predator must be monstrous, i.e. he must also drug his victims (like Cosby) or ruin the careers of dozens of women (like Weinstein).
If the predator doesn't fit any of these criteria -- let's say he rapes one woman, on one night, without witnesses -- he will go free.
I suspect most predators have learned this lesson too.
5
It’s not enough!
2
I am satisfied by the outcome of this trial.
What I am still finding difficult to comprehend is why so many women agreed to have sex with Mr. Weinstein in the first place in exchange for a part for them in his promised remake of “Gone with the Wind” or the lead role in his next blockbuster movie, as opposed to just walking away.
4
We’ve turned a corner long overdue, for sure. Now I’m waiting for the women of USA to rise up and defeat trump.
5
Working on it!
3
The Editorial Board is almost entirely motivated by getting justice for victims. They fail to understand that the justice system is supposed to be about balancing the rights of the accused with the rights of the accuser. Supposedly the Editorial Board is motivated by deliberation, expertise, and long standing values. I'm amazed at how easily they want to eliminate statute of limitations. Then again, maybe the NY Times Editorial Board isn't some lofty institution but is an insulated social bubble.
(Certainly rape victims should be listened to, not shamed, in order to collect evidence and pursue a case in a timely manner.)
I suspect that Weinstein's verdict is the start of the true backlash against the Me Too Movement. For years Weinstein and Me Too was just some thing people talked about over the Internet and in media with like minded people. Now a grand jury in real life had to deliberate over the evidence and the law. Unsurprisingly, they convicted Weinstein of serious criminal charges but not the most serious charges. Which didn't exactly align with the mob's expectations.
Truthfully, most people don't support Me Too. They think it is oppressive and crazy. But they've seen celebrities speak out in thoughtful ways only to have to apologize the next day. So they keep their big mouth shut. The whole idea that we have a rape culture and we must without question believe women is a minority opinion that got amplified by fear and the internet.
3
Weinstein aside, if every sexual encounter can be retroactively classified as rape or predation months or years later, who's safe? Is there any other activity, social or economic, where a crime depends on how the feelings, memories or reflections of one or another party develop over the years?
And again, Weinstein aside, is seduction now a crime? Should men demand of women a signed statement of consent? Or would that also be deemed coercive?
3
There are clear areas where #metoo has worked— power /coercion and sexual assault , statutory rape, workplace harassment, etc.. t
The Weinstein cases are a good example where it can work— but it also raises some issues among those who look closely at human behavior.
What concerns me are those gray areas where #metoo right now is not effective, where consent or events are unclear or disputed and accusation becomes a potential tool for revenge, regret, secondary gain or other hidden motives. With the exception of the pedophile and underage assault, Extending statutes of limitations or simply believing only adult accusers in these gray areas puts a foot on the neck of human rights and leaves a window for a different more insidious kind of personal and moral corruption; the kind that ultimately perpetuates seeing women as victims who cannot speak up during a sexual encounter or fight back at the time of there assault— and men as universal predators who can only be guilty of assault.
3
This reckoning is an example that gives an immense amount of substance to the phrase “justice delayed is justice denied.”
The years - decades, even - of silence, as hundreds of people refused to speak up about what they knew about this predator (shame on them!) - make this verdict of little value to the women he preyed on during all that time.
Until (1) women’s accusations of sexual violence are met with SWIFT, fast-tracked justice, and (2) the conspiracies of silence among those who know what the predators are doing are replaced by people “of conscience” who speak up, the predators will continue to get away with ruining women’s lives.
We need something on the order of a powerful, ACLU-like organization women (and those “in the know”) can reach out to, that will listen to them, ACT on what they say, and convict monsters quickly.
1
Mr. Weinstein’s lead lawyer said her client was simply “a target of a cause and of a movement.”
100% correct.
He was a YUUUUGE target. Especially when you are a guy who abuses, sexually attacks, and otherwise demeans women, lots of women, many, many women, over a lengthy period of time.
Think about it.
3
Many of these victims remind me of incest survivors. When your abuser is in your family, assault plays out differently. When you know you are going to be eating breakfast the next morning with your perpetrator, you learn to play nice, put on a smile and eventually to completely dissociate the crimes done to you in the dark without your consent and the relationship you have in the light of day that you choose. Hope it is a line you never have to walk. Do not judge these women. They were and are survivors.
5
It's long overdue - finally, women are being heard - and more importantly, action is being taken when women speak out.
It's not easy to come forward, but finally, the stigma and bias is going away - and women can find the strength and support to speak out.
We're listening.
3
I have read that the sentencing guidelines for the crimes Weinstein was convicted of range between 5 and 25 years. My prediction is that his ultimate sentence will be on the low end of that range. I hope I'm wrong.
4
@Charles Focht Its a 5 year minimum so he's going to do time. But we'll see what happens with the LA charges. If he's found guilty there, he can potentially do decades behind bars.
Thank you. As one of the two thirds who has never reported the abuse I have experienced, believing my character would be exploited, not his, I am grateful to all the brave ones who have come forward.
11
I just want to know if there was INCONTROVERTIBLE direct evidence for what he was convicted for, or if they convicted him based on the "she said" portion of "he said, she said."
If the former, then it is a victory for justice.
If the latter, then it was a defeat for justice and a defeat for feminists because they will continue to lose allies.
3
I know another sexual predator that has had more than a dozen women come forward and report instances of forced sexual contact, even rape. Yet he continues to live a very public life free and untouched by the rue of law. He is of course our president.
his should be a theme touched upon at every day by the Democratic nominee during the presidential campaign.
And so now is the perfect time for the press to speak up about this and remind everyone again that power and privilege enable sexual predation and the presses willful silence on this aspect of this truly despicable mans behavior is the means by which his escape is enabled.
18
@Christo And another is Michael Bloomberg. If he wins the democratic nomination, we will have two men vying for president who have bought women's silence with gag orders. Look how much further we have to go!
3
Weinstein created his own alternative reality where he is good and innocent--and he managed to do it without Fox News!
3
It happened to Bill Cosby. It happened to Harvey Weinstein. They got Al Capone on tax evasion.
You commit a thousand crimes and they finally nail you on one.
One day it will happen to Donald Trump. In the meantime, he is still the president.
Justice too late is perhaps better than no justice at all. But it's still justice denied.
Too late for us.
11
Eliminate the Statute of Limitation? Why, because women never lie, memories never change and evidence stays forever? This is a totally irresponsible opinion piece.
5
Most crimes considered heinous have no statute of limitations. Are sexual assault, predation, and rape not heinous enough? Or is it just crimes against women you’re worried about?!
4
Another reason to work for Trump's defeat in November. As soon as he is no longer president, he will be indictable -- for crimes very similar to Weinstein's.
There are cases similar to Weinstein's sitting in folders on several prosecutors' desks in several states ready to launch as soon as Trump is out of office.
This was a very important verdict.
9
“The revelations of Mr. Weinstein’s behavior.”
No. Not a revelation. Everyone KNEW! I knew and I have never ever been in Hollywood. It was KNOWN that Weinstein was a sexual deviant and predator. The shocking thing is not so much that Weinstein did what he did. The shocking thing is that it took so very long for a few of his victims to get some small amount of justice.
Let’s hope that more victims get more justice when he’s prosecuted in the next case. The man has damaged so many careers and lives. He really does not deserve to walk among us any more.
15
It's The New York Times Editorial Board's subtitle, "After decades of abuse allegations" that should stick in this Board's throat and cause the rest of us to stop and consider how this story of grotesque abuse could have been much stopped much earlier and been quite different—and spared the suffering of countless women (and men) over decades—if journalists at The New York Times (and elsewhere) had been able to hear these allegations of abuse decades ago.
Those journalists of decades ago couldn't hear the allegations then for the very same reasons that today's journalists cannot hear other allegations of abuse now.
Indeed, if we see this as a proud moment for The New York Times journalism (and other journalism outlets) then we ensure that the allegations of abuse these journalists cannot hear now will be the stories of grotesque abuse that we'll read here in The New York Times (and elsewhere) decades in the future.
And the suffering of countless women and men over these decades to come will again be the result of today's journalists' inability to hear today's allegations of abuse of power.
Extremely powerful private multinational institutions hold extremely powerful sway over private multinational corporations running this nation's presses. And who can doubt that this extreme power is what leaves these journalists quite deaf when it comes to allegations of abuse within these same institutions.
7
@Tom Wilde
"how this story of grotesque abuse could have been stopped much earlier and been quite different..... if journalists at The New York Times (and elsewhere) had been able to hear these allegations of abuse decades ago."
Correction: Journalists at the Times and in Hollywood media publications knew about his behavior for decades, but no one said anything because they were afraid to lose their paychecks and access.
Yes, @RBC ~
I agree with you. I was merely being a bit less direct in my wording of the matter. That is, when I wrote that if these journalists "had been able to hear these allegations of abuse," I surely meant that they heard them, but they were too afraid to report them, for the reasons you state. I clearly implied these reasons in my last paragraph when I asked the question there: Who can doubt that this extreme power leaves these journalists quite deaf? Fear of losing their job and their access is surely the result of this extreme power these journalists are working under.
And certainly this is the core problem when private multinational corporations are in control of "our free press" and are thereby in control of our "independent" journalists.
In any case, thank you for your correction.
Cheers~
Great illustration by Brian Stauffer.
6
What do NBC, Cyrus Vance, every Democratic presidential nominee (especially Hillary), most mainstream news outlets, and of course, all of Hollywood have in common? They all ignored and sometimes enabled these abuses by Harvey Weinstein. This secret that wasn’t could have been exposed long ago were it not for the powerful protectors watching out only for themselves. The hypocrisy that he was a poster child for #metoo is almost as shameful as the reactions of the press and his allies to the verdict. Thanks to Ronan Farrow for making this too big to continue to ignore.
8
@HENRY Stop giving Ronan Farrow credit he doesn't deserve. This story was broken by two WOMEN.. Jodi Kantor and Meghan Twohey at the Times. Remember that!
Kinda funny, though, that a jury could find Weinstein guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt" from she-said, he-said testimony about decades-old events!
How is Weinstein's imprisonment a victory of anything more than a boost for his come-one, come-all alleged victims to substantiate their civil claims for a share of Weinstein's wealth?
The Weinstein verdict will degrade the film industry's offerings. He turned out some good movies!
4
The only way this will really end is to stop it before it starts. Young boys and girls need to be taught in school how to relate to their sexuality in a body-positive way and then how to appropriately interact with each other to attain love/marriage or even just consensual sex. If, as a society, we don't move beyond our Puritanical, pubescent views on sex education, Harvey Weinstein will just become a legal footnote and nothing will change.
10
The thing that amazed me was a comment leading up to the trial made by Weinstein's defense attorney, Donna Rotunno, where she stated, "if you don't want to be a victim, don't go to the hotel room". Truly the definition of blame the victim. Obviously Weinstein didn't pay her enough.
7
Weinstein defiled individual women.
He also defiled our entire culture.
By many reports, he demanded gratuitous sex in movies he produced, cheapening intimacy and confusing especially the young among us. To get his money, you had to add his scenes. He forced himself on all of us.
198
@robin
Weinstein did not defile the culture of Hollywood, he was simply a notable practitioner.
7
@Peter Zenger
Probably you are looking for perfect.
Hollywood does normalize and glamorize violence and craven depraved sexuality.
But it also has, for almost a century, managed to let genius bubble to the surface - Chaplin made his way there for a reason, and countless artists of brilliance and merit have enriched our shared life since.
I watch (by DVD) as many or more foreign and indie than Hollywood pictures. I watch Hollywood movies and I like Hollywood movies.
I am in awe of the industry, and it is my uninformed opinion that Hollywood is teeming with artistic genius. The teamwork alone astounds and awes me. So many people of artistic accomplishment getting along together to create something.
Movies are the novels of our time. They do for and to our culture most of the things that (using English language giants) George Eliot, Charles Dickens, Jane Austen, Herman Melville, Louisa May Alcott, John Steinbeck, Willa Cather, F.S. Fitzgerald did -- entertain while educating.
Yes, bad lessons are out there in the movies. But I'm not willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
The world is forever better that The Savages, Sully, Radio, The Conversation, The Big Short, Finding Oscar, Apollo 13, Hero, Much Ado About Nothing, Shopgirl exist.
Art politics and religion are messy. To quote a despicable practitioner of one "get used to it."
1
I am still in shock over this ruling. I really had absolutely no hope in any conviction. Wow. Times really are changing. One hopes, anyway.
2
The institution I know about covered up the crimes, not because they didn’t want to believe the women, but because they wanted to protect the name of the institution. Therefore they conducted fake investigations (much like the fake impeachment trial we just went through) 3 of them. But thanks to a strong compatriot who knew the law, we were able to get investigative reporters involved, the EEOC, and finally had an incorruptible investigator which resulted in the powerful inappropriate principal from losing his powerful position, albeit they paid him big bucks to leave. But he never regained that power again. So keep fighting. I still look back on that incident with satisfaction knowing that we toppled this man and protected untold numbers of young women. But no, it did not end up in a court of law and there was no prison sentence.
3
A critical lesson in all of this is that if an assault occurs, get all evidence you can collected - immediately. Get an medical exam by a Forensic Nurse Examiner* . The person does not have to report the assault but at a minimum the evidence will have been collected. Often after such an event, the person has a period of indecision, anxiety, depression or other severe mental distress. It might take some time to make come to terms with what course of action to pursue. Collecting the evidence provides a secure grounding for any future legal consideration.
*some places known as Sexual Assault Nurse Examiners - in both titles they do domestic violence exams .
5
For all the men commenting regarding the women who were raped being responsible for their actions, I have but one question:
Aren’t the men who sexually harass, sexually assault, and rape also responsible for their actions?
It’s about time that all those who commit these acts be brought to the fore, accused, and tried by a jury of their peers no matter their status in life.
Responsibility for committing a felony. Think about it .
16
No one is more forgotten, invisible and silent in the #MeToo movement mass media frenzy that surrouned bringing Harvey Weinstein to justice han the black African American founder Tarana Burke.
Neither Bill Cosby nor R. Kelly's fame and wealth could protect them from criminal prosecution for rape and sexual predation while black African American that so long shielded white European American Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein.
3
@Blackmamba Completely agree with you about Tarana Burke. But not sure about the second point. I don't think it was the courts that shielded Weinstein. It was the people around him. As for Cosby? Shielded for decades and then still supported. There is no one around Weinstein protecting him now, though many people denied Cosby's wrongdoing. And look at those young women protecting Kelly!! I think this is a problem about perceived power and the perceived lack of it.
1
The best and fairest way to deal with sexual predators AND prevent them from continuing to cause harm to others is for women to come forward QUICKLY. Extending statues of limitations only exacerbates the “he said she said” form of justice and is always dubious. Strengthen protections for accusers but don’t make it easier to postpone coming forward. Without physical evidence, I confuse my belief that the “beyond a shadow of a doubt” threshold to convict in criminal cases can NEVER be met.
9
Should say “I CONTINUE my belief”.
Now that men are being brought to justice women will feel safer coming forward. But you seem to forget what happened previously when a woman accused a man of sexual assault. Her integrity was questioned, her past sexual history was played out in court. No one would believe her.
7
Cyrus Vance, the very same prosecutor who chose to proceed THIS time, with these cases, had specific evidence only a few short years ago from a woman who agreed with a proposal by Vance’s staff that she wear a wiretap during her next encounter with Weinstein. Following her daring & timely cooperation, Vance decided not to proceed with a prosecution. Women need no further advice about how, when, where, etc. to articulate, document & appropriately register acts that violate & humiliate us. Let’s see, perhaps there’s something we can recommend that men/perpetrators should do, or refrain from doing.
6
5 years; 90 women.....progress......
3
"Mr. Weinstein was convicted on Monday of a felony sex crime and rape in the third degree ... He is headed for at least five years in prison."
I know someone who spent four years in prison for stealing a toaster.
18
Sexual assault is easier to prove if there is other physical assault associated or in cases of rape by a stranger or, as in this case, where there is a serial rapist. Otherwise it will remain a tough thing to prove in many cases.
This case is not going to transform the system.
5
Meanwhile, in corridors of power, including the White House, accountability is not yet there.
12
Harvey Weinstein's conviction is a watershed indeed but it extends beyond the #MeToo movement. We have a new paradigm: believe the voiceless and the downtrodden. For Harvey, it was women, but the same dynamic is in force when mendacity takes over a government.
- Believe the Rohingya
- Believe the citizens of Flint, Michigan
- Believe the survivors in failed states
- Believe the doctors who first spoke out about COVID-19
But, we must temper our belief to understand while we may believe the whistle-blowers are earnest in their statements, where possible, they must be corroborated with evidence to change policy.
3
privileged people by nature are incapable of putting themselves in someone else's situation. Their world is different.
10
The article admits that “Harvey Weinstein was convicted even though physical evidence and corroborating witnesses were lacking”.
What?
How is that a step in the right direction?
It sounds like a kangaroo court in all honesty.
To think that anything less than a conviction was forthcoming considering 3 years of nonstop reporting on this guy’s conduct and the resultant public anger is wishful thinking.
Harvey Weinstein, by all accounts is a terrible and odious human being but this is an utterly flawed trial and an legal outcome.
4
@Gander FIR No sympathy for Mr. Weinstein, I do hope he ends up spending most of his remaining years in prison and that his conviction helps break the "casting couch" culture in the entertainment industry and elsewhere. Perhaps, given the nature of sexual assault, women are really saying that "innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" needs to be modified since, in this situation and many others like it, there is no physical evidence or witnesses and years have passed since the crime was committed.
2
@Mister Mxyzptlk
There should never ever be an "exception to the innocent until proven guilty" cherished legal principle no matter what the nature of the crime.(in fact it's needed most when people are accused of truly awful crimes such as rape,murder,treason etc. and our rush to judgment and wish to mete out punishment is at its' most rampant)
If that's the case why have a trial at all?
What a dystopian nightmare to wish upon oneself?
2
@Gander FIR Back in day a woman had to have a witness to the rape before she was believed. we’ve come a long way.
3
The Times solution seems easy enough to me: In a he-said/she-said what she said is proof and nobody cares what he said, even if the she only wakes up to the "horror" some forty years later, after all hope for any real evidence is long gone.
5
The potential for abuse of authority by studio directors, bosses, priests, coaches, etc. was not the subject of this trial, and was never in dispute. Nor was the ability of an inflamed crowd to pervert the rule of law.
2
You know you have a problem when...
You are a wealthy, powerful man and nearly 100 of your past lovers come forward and say that all or some of the encounters were not consensual. Smoke meet fire... (Especially when there are also actual fires.)
Your brother kicks you out of the business you started together, nearly effectively disowning you, saying that you are a toxic bully.
As a comment a few days ago said, if you are a wealthy and/or powerful man (or woman for that matter), you need to be very careful being intimate with people you have, or could have, power over. Specifically dating underlings should be avoided in nearly every instance.
That said, you never know when love will strike. But then, go to HR as a couple. Change who the person works for (not you). At the very least, get something in writing where both people talk about wanting to date, detailing intimacy expectations, detailing what happens if the relationship goes sideways.
Is this “the end of romance?” I don’t see it that way, but this really only involves dating your employees or direct reports.
As for me, for 40 years I have strictly avoided dating people I work with. I also avoided serious friendships at work. I don’t feel that work is the place to do that and I avoid putting too many eggs in one basket. I also never get my neighbor to work on my house, etc., etc. Hire a professional.
Boundaries are good for you and everyone else.
.
4
I would add, when I leave a job, if there is someone I really liked at the old job as a friend or possible romance, after some time has passed, I will reach out and see if they want to do something.
After dating someone at work, you break up and they go nuts and sabotage you at work. This happens -
Perfectly reasonable people can become insane monsters in the event of things not working out, both men and woman, straight and otherwise.
I should also point out, along similar lines (off, but very related topic), that I never lend money to my friends or family, forget co-workers. If I have the money, I give it. I don’t want that getting in the way of the relationship.
These things can start with the best of intentions, but what happens when things go sideways? When that happens, things can get ugly or even just icky in a heartbeat.
I never cosign anything I can’t afford if the person suddenly defaults. Something happens and suddenly they can’t afford the car payments. Loan expensive tools to a neighbor? (and I have). I better be ready to let it go if they break it, and I better be able to live without it too.
Remember that you may think how to behave in these situations is common sense and that others follow the same beliefs/rules as you do. What if, after loaning expensive power tools to the neighbor, they left them out in the yard while it rained while they watched the game...
Again, boundaries are good for me and others around me.
.
3
@SMcStormy
Humans are not robots. Love happens.
Where and when? Anytime anywhere, but obviously this includes where we are most of the time: at work....
1
@Jean Roudier /Perhaps, and I noted that above.
Not sure if you are familiar with the Out-of-Control-litigious environment in the US. Most of those in US Congress and the US Senate are lawyers, so the laws favor making lawyers wealthy.
As a result, while it would be nice if someone can act like a human and not a robot at work, the number of lawsuits that involve work romance is ridiculously high....
.
It is also true that #MeToo is not without its excesses in terms of lagging due process and over-reliance on hearsay and circumstantial evidence. For the #MeToo Movement to retain its integrity it must not be a gateway for false accusations or accusations that are not supported by scientific evidence.
2
The editorial board says two things have to change: the statute of limitations and the attitudes of law enforcement. The third pillar would be age appropriate sex education in this country. As an example, we have a community of young Olympic gymnasts that did not know the proper anatomical names of the parts of their body and were unable to articulate and then be believed by their own parents that they were being sexually molested with their parents in the room. You could argue they were victims of their own career ambition. They willingly went to the physician that was molesting them. We have the employees on Weinstein's payroll that were procuring women for him. We have an entertainment industry that institutionalized couch casting as a normal part of doing business, hence business deals being conducted after normal business hours in hotel rooms. We have young women not knowing if they were raped and men not understanding that their behavior is predatory. This lack of education, the lack of understanding of issues of power and control and the concept of consent have contributed to the two pillars the editorial board says need to change.
10
The balance of power between men and women has changed a bit. Women now know they can come forward and their rape claims will be heard and believed, finally. Perhaps.
It took nearly 90 women to come forward before these claims against Harvey Weinstein we taken seriously. What does this tell us? It screams that women still aren't believed when they come forward.
Why has it taken so long for women to receive any justice when their claims of rape, sexual abuse or coercion can so easily be documented? It's because this sort of intimidation, rage and perversion works for some men. It gives them a feeling unlimited power over women.
Women, we've been silent for too long. Let the floodgates open and let the women be heard and vindicated.
7
We just witnessed the sex lives of a generation vanish in a puff of fear and loathing. Apparently women now bear no responsibility whatsoever for their own behaviour towards the men around them. Apparently a relationship can be predatory even when both parties are fully consenting and give every indication of enjoying themselves. Men bear all the risk and all the responsibility, and women can just decide at any moment, no matter how far in the future, to label rape something that they treated as consensual at the time. So much for keeping out of people’s bedrooms. I hope everyone celebrating this case really enjoys being lonely.
5
Are woman satisfied with this result? A bunch of old men who definitely were creeps have been put in their place. Woman, who want to be equals, are now routinely claiming they are victims of terrible men.
I was a physician for 43 years before I retired. All the woman I knew in work (50% of medical students now are woman) had no problem telling me to shut up if I started to tell a bad joke. I didn't need a NDA. The men I knew were probably as worried about their behavior with woman as I was. Very few of them were rapists.
I have three sons. I've suggested to them to make sure that none of their dates has anything to drink before "consensual" sex. In fact, I suggested they get written consents (yeah, that's not going to happen). I'm pretty sure, as well, that neither of them would force themselves on a woman.
Wouldn't it be terrible if, when they were 70 or 80 years old, getting ready to retire, to have accusations thrown at them like the did to Bloomberg at the last debate?
Not sure there has been any progress here.
6
Grateful to those who spoke out.
4
I hope the #MeToo’s aren't getting overly excited about this - Harvey Weinstein isn't likely to do any real time.
The former Speaker of the New York State Assembly, Sheldon Silver, hasn't - even after losing his first appeal.
Well before his appeals are over, Weinstein will probably be dead.
2
The Weinstein verdict is a step forward, but there are still plenty of men, wealthy, powerful, and otherwise, (witnessed by some of the comments here) determined to keep their world safe for sexual abuse and harassment. Two of them are on the Supreme Court.
6
Folks commenting on the the brilliance of the graphic overlook one important point: Harvey Weinstein is white. The use of the outline of a black head in conjunction with a headline about "monsters" only serves to perpetuate and reinforce racial stereotypes. That's what stood out to me and distracted me from the serious message of the editorial.
3
I haven't read all of the accounts by the various women who came forward. But it was clear this guy was sleazy and actresses knew it. Some knowingly went to his room hoping to walk the tight rope and come out unscathed with a job. Some others knowingly went to bed with him and traded sex for a job. Some were out right cornered like a move from Donald Trump. He might not have been guilty all of the time, but it only takes once for him to be a criminal. Hopefully this puts and end to both trading and extorting sex for financial gain in Hollywood.
6
I’m just here to say that Brian Stauffer’s illustration is a stunner—! Wow, is that ever well-done.
1
In addition to lessons learned re: rape, sexual abuse and the power struggle between bosses (usually male) and employees (usually female) perhaps we can also learn a lesson about the pitfalls of our never-ending fetish with the rich and famous. Perhaps we can grow up just a bit.
4
...and can we please stop using the term "sexual misconduct" to describe the many layers of assault and harassment women endure... words matter...
5
I find little to agree with in this opinion piece, but most particularly I disagree that the statutes of limitations for sexual crimes should be extended or eliminated so that accusers can come forward years after a crime was alleged to have been committed. The reasons underpinning statutes of limitations (such as fading memories, lost evidence) apply as much to sexual crimes as they do to other crimes and I see no rational (as opposed to emotional) reason for the advocated exceptions. In fact, since the proof of many of these crimes often rests on the victims’ testimonies regarding their recollection and perception of events with little or no supporting physical or other evidence—certainly none that would be available after a lengthy reporting delay—I would say that limitations periods are even more necessary to ensure the fair application of justice.
17
As the victim of sexual abuse at age 9, and domestic abuse in my late 20’s (as I now recognize was part of the ongoing trauma from my childhood abuse), who didn’t recognize how impactful those experiences (for which I blamed myself) until a life crisis and counseling in my 40’s—alI can say is, you should thank whatever supreme being you believe in that you didn’t go through what many of us (female and male) have experienced. You are lucky and ignorant.
7
Statutes of limitation and arrest/conviction standards should not apply to female victims of rape, sexual assault, sexual abuse, sexual harassment, unwanted approaches and other acts of misogyny.
5
@Susan-After reading hundreds of #MeToo stories, I think anyone would be convinced that rape victims never forget. Many rapists go on to rape again and in state after state, rape evidence sits gathering dust. Statutes of limitations on rape minimize the great harm done to victims. Please talk to rape victims and study the research.
https://www.rainn.org/state-state-guide-statutes-limitations
2
One of the obstacles is that some people will stop at nothing to protect themselves. Where are Einstein's clients names?
3
Strong to the point graphic, excellent. Tells the story in a single glance. Kudos to Mr. Stauffer.
12
Mr Weinstein conviction stands for something even larger than this editorial´s suggestion: we should not forget that the Commander in Chief of the United States of America encourages a narrative of abuse of women, minorities, the poor, etc. In revering the power of money, the USA is inevitably making of a reckless billionaire that is trespassing all barriers of law and decency a role model. It seems that if you are like him, you can not only grab women and make fun of it, but can also become the president of the United States.
27
I am more than a little worried about allowing people to testify in a criminal trial about alleged incidents which were never tried in a court of law. Perhaps that should be okay *after* the defendant has been convicted.
But the prosecution should have to prove the case it brought, not bring in other incidents to argue that the defendant probably did it.
11
@Lilo —this sort of testimony is used in other types of cases to show a pattern
3
Girls are generally first taught to internalize a male's sense of entitlement when we all hit our first organizational structure - school. The old adage ''that boy's teasing you because he probably likes you', is often our first lesson. The "Me too" movement will not be the zeitgeist needed if it continues to only focus on the individual's capacity to change. It must include our institutions. If we do not hold our schools, workplaces and similar environments to account, we remain stranded as individuals in this mess. So I'll wait till Weinstein's enablers are appropriately charged for their organizational enabling before celebrating.
For change to truly occur, individuals and institutions must move forward together. So here's hoping #wetoo becomes the actual positive response to #metoo.
30
@Pete-Thank you for your sensitive understanding of social conditioning that also treats girls as sexual objects as they grow older. The book, "Sex in the Forbidden Zone" by Dr. Peter Rutter, should be required reading in institutions--schools, workplaces, churches, the military, etc.--for people in authority. It's an enlightening look at the ethics and responsibilities that we would hope principled, mature adults would uphold. The impact when this respect and safety is not given--and how to make these principles personal and institutional norms.
8
Kudos to Brian Stauffer, the artist who created the image for this piece. I've been captivated and repulsed by this image for the past 10 minutes. The casting couch vampire is incredibly apropos.
21
The critical break through is that the conviction is based on an established trends, rather than hard fact.
The level of allowable evidence will bear on the likelihood of getting a correct decision. Hence, as a wrong outcome for very vulnerable people will be most damaging, the required level of proof for them should be lowest. Peter Kennedy, Vice-President Royal College of Psychiatrists, commenting on the Kerr Haslam Inquiry into sexual abuse, said the report recognises that rumour and gossip can be grossly misleading (perhaps 2% are false). However, when rumour, gossip and withdrawn or unsubstantiated allegations refer to the same person repeatedly, the balance of probability grows that patients are being harmed.
Although the standard of proof in these cases may be low, the trends become very clear, with consequently fewer flawed outcomes.
7
In the United States, it’s firmly established constitutional right that defendants in criminal cases are presumed innocent until the state proves every element of the charged crime/s beyond a reasonable doubt. That should the standard in every case, no matter the crime or the defendant. America’s system of constitutional rights is far more important than the particular circumstances of an individual case. American jurisprudence considers it a far graver harm to send an innocent person to jail than to let a most-likely guilty person go free when the state can’t meet its high burden of proof. As most American defendants in criminal cases are poor and lack the financial resources of a “Harvey Weinstein” to hire high-powered attorneys, it’s the less-powerful who benefit most from our legal system’s insistence of that a high burden of proof be met before someone can be locked up.
10
Feminist Andrea Dworkin has made a valid point in that the usual standard of probable cause for arrest and beyond a reasonable doubt for conviction should not apply to men who assault women. Further, criminal law only applies to actual contact, ignoring harassment, flirting and general male privilege.
2
So, men who are alleged to have assaulted women should not be allowed the basic principles of our justice system?
2
The critical break through is that the conviction is based on an established trends, rather than hard fact.
The level of allowable evidence will bear on the likelihood of getting a correct decision. Hence, as a wrong outcome for very vulnerable people will be most damaging, the required level of proof for them should be lowest. Peter Kennedy, Vice-President Royal College of Psychiatrists, commenting on the Kerr Haslam Inquiry into sexual abuse, said the report recognises that rumour and gossip can be grossly misleading (perhaps 2% are false). However, when rumour, gossip and withdrawn or unsubstantiated allegations refer to the same person repeatedly, the balance of probability grows that patients are being harmed.
Although the standard of proof in these cases may be low, the trends become very clear, with consequently fewer flawed outcomes.
2
The jury still struggled with sufficient evidence on two charges. The #MeToo Movement as whole still struggles with "sufficient evidence" and due process in many of these cases.
8
Your headline and opinion expose (no pun intended) the problem that still remains for female victims of sexual assault by men in positions of power. A powerful man credibly accused of taking sexual advantage of dozens of women over decades and who had six (6) women testify against him is convicted only on two charges brought by two of those women. That does not bode well for "ordinary" victims of sexual assault being able to obtain convictions against the men who took advantage of them.
22
It’s interesting that so many people seem to question the veracity of the women who have come forward to help convict Weinstein, yet when I read articles about the sexual abuse of boys at the hands of scout and church leaders, people seem ready to believe the men who come forward years later to tell of the abuse.
72
@Chris M —I don’t think the previous commenter was saying that.
2
@S That's because it is about men believing men.
1
@ Chris M
Minmin is right. That’s not what I was saying.
Sexual assault and sexual abuse is wrong. Always. Everywhere. It hurts its victims in ways they don’t always understand and sometimes can’t even admit to themselves. I’m glad for you that you have no idea what I’m talking about.
But ask yourself why you find it easier to believe men who “just wanted to please authority figures,” who were probably confused and embarrassed and terrified, who probably didn’t want anyone to know what was happening to them. Some of them endured abuse for years!
Why do you seem to think it is easier for a woman to come forward?
Sexual assault and sexual abuse is wrong. Always. Everywhere. I don’t begrudge men who have been abused for coming forward. I share their pain and will stand with them as they struggle to hold it and move forward.
Shame on you for not being able to do the same for other humans who have been harmed.
2
I find it interesting that the editorial mentions 6 victims, then mentions 90 victims, and then a comment mentions 100s of victims. We had a trial. There was due process. We had a substitute for a trial by media. Due process works. Trial in a courtroom is so much better for society.
1
Sure, he's guilty. People have known that in Hollywood for
years.
But what is is sentence going to be?
How much time is he actually going to serve?
These are the real questions. Guilty without serious time served will be a slap on the wrist.
14
@Joe
It appears he cannot get less than 5 years, of which I assume he will serve 2 1/2. Probably mostly in a hospital.
2
Some people are troubled that when there is no physical evidence of a sexual assault, the case is simply a she-said/he-said incident and courts should not entertain such cases, much less send the defendant to prison for years.
It is a long tradition in both civil and criminal cases that juries may conclude from their observation of how a witness testifies, the words chosen by the witness and even the body language of the witness whether or not the witness is being truthful. The judge gives specific instructions about that assessment process.
The defendant in any case has a constitutional right under the 5th Amendment not to testify. No reason need be given for exercising the right to remain silent, and the prosecutor is forbidden from making any comment about the exercise of that right.
Harvey Weinstein chose not to testify at his trial, and he was convicted. We must accept that justice was done.
14
“Mr. Weinstein’s prosecutors were able to break through a barrier common to many assault cases, a lack of physical or other corroborating evidence.”
That is breaking a barrier indeed.
12
The case seems to be far more complicated than other abuse cases with victims seeking advantage before and for years after the crime they never reported. The consequence? Casting couches now come with an NDA.
10
Sadly, for every Harvey Weinstein that gets punished there are 2 that will never, and 1 new one to take his place. Until society changes it’s acceptance of these parasites, nothing will change.!
27
it's a good start
If only Harvey Weinstein's enablers and facilitators and cover-up-ers could also be held accountable.
The lumbering lummox could never have done what he did over the years without their assistance and complicity.
470
@srwdm
Neither could have Epstein and all the other abusers. These men are not a loner hiding in the bushes; these men are at the center of a network of assistance for their abuse and crimes. People knew; people helped.
46
@srwdm they can be and should be. These people - mostly women in the case of Weinstein and Epstein - are legally vulnerable. But they are getting away with it because of their gender - which is an insult to people of both genders.
8
@srwdm
"If only Harvey Weinstein's enablers and facilitators and cover-up-ers could also be held accountable."
That's one of the things elections are for!
What could be more "enabling" & "facilitating" than a president who by example and doling out pardons to his similarly "morally challenged," power-abusing friends like Rod Blagojevich --- signals the exact message that abusing power for personal gratification and advantage is a-okay?
What could be more "enabling" & facilitating than a senate explicitly saying that power supposedly held in trust may be abused by a president for purely personal advantage, with that institution's (the senate's - lower case "s" now, by the way) blessing?
19
Let's call these crimes what they are. This was Weinstein's method of doing business.
He got his jollies by ignoring his marital vows and taking advantage of young women who stepped into his business circle. He was inappropriate and his proclivities were well known. He was a one-man nightmare. And he still thinks he is innocent!
He will never understand that he hurt people emotionally, sexually, physically, and in their careers based on his sexual whims. He still can't admit his crimes to himself.
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@Honey Lets actually call these crimes what they are. Low on the scale. Weinstein was found Not Guilty by unanimous jury verdicts of any serious charges. Yes, of course, you can say any charge of sexual assault is serious but then so can you say that any charge of any physical assault is serious. However there are distinctions between different types of conduct, and rightly so. Ignoring your marital vows is not a crime, however ethically reprehensible it may be. The women who stepped into his circle all knew the circle's ways. Yes, Weinstein was inappropriate and his proclivities were known. I avoid going near burning buildings because I know that harm may come to me. It is called a sense of self-responsibility. From the evidence, the greatest part of which, let me remind you the jury judged in Weinstein's favor, it is clear that many of those who met Weinstein also had proclivities and sexual whims. Sometimes the truth hurts but the same way as Weinstein has to face the two Guilty verdicts, those who thought Weinstein should get a one-way ticket to hell, also have to realize that the Jury profoundly disagreed.
3
@Honey he helped more women’s careers than he hurt by his depravity - shared by the many women who did willingly engage in these transactions. And meToo needs to address that.
2
@Honey I believe that you have it all wrong about his claim that he is innocent.
Weinstein has an appeal available to him. The basis of his appeal is that he is innocent. That was the defense strategy for his trial and will be the basis for his appeal.
Upon the announcement of the guilty verdict, he immediately repeated three times to one of his attorneys: "I am innocent." (or, words to that effect.) This was scripted; it was an act. This sexual criminal made movies for a living and he used this advantage, knowingly and effectively, as a criminal lure to put his intended unsuspecting victims in "she said, he said" situations of his choosing with no other witnesses.
Weinstein understands perfectly well that he has hurt all of these women "emotionally, sexually, physically, and in their careers." He Does Not Care! It is the way of Evil.
The article states that "more than 90 [women] have accused Mr. Weinstein of sexual misconduct."
Is it possible that a few or even some of these women have lied about their experiences with Weinstein? Yes.
Is it possible that the vast majority of these 90 women have falsely accused him of sexual misconduct? No!
1
As a criminal justice professional I have interviewed hundreds of sexual assault suspects. I have a wife and daughter who I have sough to protect and I always will.
For those wanting to eliminate deadlines and statutes of limitations on reporting, I can understand your goals and the reasons these things can and should happen.
The problem is this: Thirty/forty years later, there is no DNA, no blood, no semen, no saliva, no nada. NO evidence.
All you have is what we call a “swearing match”. He said vs. she said. Good luck with a jury. The odds of getting convictions are very remote at best.
Ladies, if you think you were violated, nothing stops you from coming forward right now.
120
@JSS Yes, there is still plenty that stops a woman from coming forward. It is great that Weinstein was convicted. His conviction however, does not necessarily mean that women will be believed if they come forward. It doesn't mean that they won't be dragged through the mud when they are testifying in court. There have been cases where women came forward, lost in court, and then were charged for their supposed lies.
100
@JSS-Yes, ideally more women (and men) so violated will find the courage to come forward. But consider the personal risk and threats: in the case of Donald Trump where 24 women have stepped forward; Jeffrey Epstein, supported by a system of coverup perpetuated by the U.S. Department of Justice, public officials, and Florida police; and in the hearing meant to vet Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh, where Senate Republicans went to extraordinary lengths to smear a witness and shutdown the testimonies of others who volunteered to testify.
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@JSS — Weinstein's conviction was obtained without physical evidence. That undermines your claim that DNA, blood, semen, or saliva are necessary. What is necessary is that jury members listen carefully and make an informed decision on the basis of the evidence presented.
63
...And the senate needs to stop saying abuse of power is a-okay!
19
I really appreciated this opinion piece—and Brian Stauffer’s accompanying artwork. How appropriate—Weinstein’s mouth shown as a snow-white casting couch (with red fang base).
18
Male violence against women is global and ancient. Our sons need to be Weinstein's jurors. The media that enriched Weinstein needs to purge itself of gratuitous violence against women. Our political culture needs to reject candidates who celebrate grabbing women.
Male sexual hunger will not abate, but it needs to be isolated from male violence, a herculean [sic] task given our glorification of power.
25
Where are all the other Hollywood predators? Making movies, no doubt.
They owe Harvey Weinstein their gratitude.
9:27 PM EST Monday
5
Thank you for the support you give the monster's victims. The illustration speaks to the horror.
12
IF only we could also prosecute ALL of the facilitators and enablers and cover-up-ers of this despicable creature called Harvey Weinstein.
In fact, every effort should be made to do so, or at least identify and expose these individuals before the public and their industry peers. And "Hollywood" should cooperate and lead the way. Movie goers, who keep them in business, SHOULD DEMAND IT.
9
Great illustration by Brian Stauffer "casting couch vampire".
22
Who wants to bet that Weinstein, in poor health and debilitated by stress, dies before serving his full term? Fact: His high school yearbook listed the phone number of a jail as his own.
6
Women’s rights in America took a major step forward today. Thank you Gloria Allred and Cyrus Vance!
10
The pendulum has favored rapists for centuries. If it needs to swing towards victims to find some balance, so be it. Forget the daughter argument. I use to believe that if a man thought of his daughter, he may not proceed with the rape.
Wrong.
The Weinsteins, Epsteins, Cosbys, Peter Nygard ++ need to go to jail and serve as a reminder of consequences to other powerful men. Men with no character only understand jail, loss of freedom and power.
50
Brilliant graphic.
9
There was another individual who, in a sense, was "convicted".
Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance, Jr.
And he needs to step down, for his egregious failure and incompetence regarding Harvey Weinstein in 2015.
30
Oh for crying out loud.. My mom was complaining about her boss in the 1970's. It's a shame it took a bunch of disgruntled Hollywood actresses to bring the matter to light .. Now that Harvey is gone, I doubt will hear from them again and without star power #MeToo will eventually fade away [remember #BLM?]
It''s only a matter of time before the Hollywood elite and their followers will move on to the next "protest de jour."
7
What effective art to go with this story!
10
I really wish you would avoid the use of the word "Monster" when it comes to human behavior. What Weinstein is convicted of is monstrous, but each of us has the potential for the same behavior. To make him a "Monster" is to give the rest of us a lifeline, a way of saying, "Not me; I'm no Monster." Murderers are still human; child predators are still human; and men who use their power to prey on women are still human. Let's address those human failures without taking the perpetrators out of the human family.
30
Each of us has the potential for the same behavior? That is spectacularly untrue.
11
Nice to see a wealthy powerful American citizen held accountable for his outrageous treatment of women,Hopefully the day will come when another powerful American man will also be confronted by his accusers in a court of law.As soon as Trump is no longer president (hopefully January 2021) he should face the music for his myriad of sexual assaults and litany of other acts of dishonesty including multiple perjuries.
42
We also need to demand that our members of Congress reauthorize the federal Violence Against Women Act which expired more than a year ago on February 15, 2019.
66
I suspect that sexual misconduct is heavily intertwined with psychological aberrations. Offenders are surely much affected by urges they can’t control. And people who are often diseased are not “monsters”. Empathy for the victims does not justify incessant demonizing of the offenders.
1
@michjas If this were true then perpetrators, who surely know right from wrong, would seek help for their "urges." Did Weinstein seek help? Louis CK? Jeffrey Epstein? They don't seek help because they like what they are doing and believe it is okay. This is what monsters are--deviants.
2
"The rich have got their channels in the bedrooms of the poor
And there's a mighty judgment coming, but I may be wrong."
Leonard Cohen might not be wrong after all. [Tower of Song]
4
Wonderful that this day of reckoning has come for a notorious sexual predator. I am interested to know more about the psychology of victims who continue to have friendly and sexual relationships with their attackers. Also, how do we as a society encourage victims to come forward soon after the attacks which will help to stop future attacks on other women.
2
Let's be clear what empowers monsters like Weinstein and Trump and why they have been able for so long to do what they have done without repercussions is the power to make money. they brought home the bacon and much more. Big money, profits and i Trump's case deregulation and tax cuts for the wealthy. Weinstein's films made lots of money so the big shots and little fish kept silent. Money talks money equals power., power to run roughshod, to get away with even murder i imagine. so to these guys and their enablers who are these upstart women trying to stop their gravy train? Weinstein wants to have his way with them , let him just keep the cash flowing. the rest of us. we would go to jail for about 30 years for doing what he was doing. the well connected, the rich all get away with committing crimes. As a side note; a guy like Sanders as president just might have what it takes to really changes things permanently in this country that's why these rich people are so afraid of him.
15
That is a really good meme that leads the article. A profile with a couch in the shape of vampire lips with a red background. I think that could be the basis for a really good piece of Pop or Urban artwork.
In regards to Weinstein, good riddance. He managed to avoid the most heinous charge and then his whole bail into the hospital thing is a total joke. Sorry buddy, but you are going in that cage and you aren't coming out, better start getting used to it!
I'm interested in why they didnt believe the third woman, she was like the only one who cut off communication with Weinstein after he assaulted her, while the other two did not. I would have thought that the jury would have problems with the two adjudicating victims and found her testimony credible. However, its evidently the opposite. Juries, you never know what they are going to do.
Either way, while he slimed out of the most heinous charge, he is going to prison and there are still multiple cases out on him. He will soon be a forgotten nobody and hopefully the victims can find closure.
6
@Jacqueline
I found Sciorra to be credible and the others not credible at all. I was shocked when I heard Mann wanted to introduce her mother to her so-called rapist. I agree that you never know what juries will do.
FINALLY. Now please let him serve the maximum sentence. It shouldn't take the testimony of 90 women (all of whom lost so much and so many of whom suffered in silence for too long), two decades, and an incredibly long drawn out legal battle to convict a known sexual predator.
16
Hopefully, this conviction along with, of course, the strengthening of the #MeToo movement it brings about, will encourage women to keep accurate records with which they will come forward sooner. Prosecution of any crime is more difficult the longer the time since the occurrence.
5
My sister and I grew up feeling all the security of zebra foals on the Serengeti. We were basically prey to any predator in a lawless world. We were always ready to run; we were wary of any date we went on, often with good reason.
Any man --- teachers, neighbors, friends of the family and relatives themselves could turn into a predator if we found ourselves alone with him. There was little to no chance of redress and only if everyhting clicked perfectly into place. If we were raped at a party, we would be blamed for having had a drink, wearing sexy clothes etc. etc. So we were alert. And scared. We managed to get through to our seventies without haveing serious moletations or sexual abuse, but there were many close calls. As for our friends and relatives --- many of them were not so lucky. That was the world we inhabited. Men were potential predators, were driven by fierce hormones, and had the law and societal judgemnt on their side. We were potential floozies, victims, nuisances and crazies. We could expect little mercy and no justice.
My daughter broke her date to the prom after hearing through the grapevine from a girlfriend that her date (whom she barely knew) had big plans to have sex with her that night, one way or the other.
He realized that he had been outed; there was no argument. He brought over the corsage he had bought for her and sadly gave it to me. I watched it wilt and die in the refrigerator. Maybe he too was saved from committing a crime.
47
Great editorial, but I must call out the BRILLIANT accompanying graphic art. Excellent even for the already impressive NYT standards. The vampire of the casting couch, indeed.
10
One wonders whether the impossibly long overdue Weinstein conviction has, if only for a fleeting moment, caused a stabbing fear to penetrate the consciousness of our amoral Fake President. If not, it should. Some day, he too will have his “day in court “.
11
SO, if per your article, 3/4 of all women have an abuse issue, we could imprison 3/4 of all men in America.
The monster is not Harvey, it's the ME TOO movement.
His attorney put it in proper perspective, she would never put herself in that position.
5
@Mike DeMaio —how do you get there? It seems the problem should be with the men who just assume that what they want goes, and that if they want it it is by definition consensual.
6
Um, no, abusers rarely just do it once. It’s a repetitive behavior. A very small number of men can abuse a large number of women
6
You may wish to hone your reading comprehension skills. Article says three-quarters of sexual assault victims never report their attackers to the authorities, not three-quarters of all women are sexually assaulted.
2
While I agree with the editorial, I'm troubled by the accompanying illustration. Given the history of false accusations of sexual assault against black men, it strikes me as deeply, deeply odd that Weinstein -- an actual, white, rapist -- is, here, essentially portrayed as black.
5
@Will
It's called a silhouette.
1
@Will It's called a silhouette, an it's meant to be anonymous, like someone who is brightly backlit.
1
@Will
For the record, I'm white. So my reaction might be meaningless.
But I saw this man clearly as a shadow cutout /outline with the classic oval Weinstein face and double chin, a luzifer. The black does not, in my opinion, to any degree reference a skin color.
1
The deep paradox in NYT Ed's position is in assuming that attacked women are unable to act responsably. Otherwise, at the very least, responsibility entails prompt reporting. this did not happen.
Rather, wat was offered up was flimsy, contradictory psychobabble: either the victims were 'traumatized' beyond reason or reasonably afraid of the consequences.
This, in turn was supported by 'evidence' from 'experts' who claimed that within a their clinics, 'many' women were recorded to have been either (irrationally) traumatized or (rationally) afraid of consequences, etc.
But internal states are not real. On the other hand, what is would be the missing forensics.
Psychology can only infer motive from sketchy theory that's nothing better than educated guessing. In short, Me-too as a legal rebus is nothing more than a gaggle of conspiricy by those who regreted having sex with their boss. And they're out for revenge.
NYT is wrong in using the results of criminal law
to establish a sociopolitical point. This, is, in fact, what free societies say about repressive governments--that they use legal means designed to adjudicate personal guilt to enforce social discipline.
So what you're saying is that he must necessarily be guilty in order that women will not be faced withthe responsibility of saying 'no'.
, This is nothing more that trumpism in reverse. As such, if the majority of Americans support him. your failure to assert legal dignity is partially to blame...
8
@bill harris Women DID say "NO"; Weinstein acted egregiously anyway. Why do you not demand that Weinstein and others like him act "responsibly"?
I spoke to a dear friend of mine who had been an international US model living abroad. I asked her if she had encountered the sexual harassment in her profession as did the aspiring actors with Harvey Weinstein.
She said, "No." She told me that if the situation became uncomfortable, she just walked out.
I think that the sentence was fair. It is obvious from the number of contacts some of these women had with Harvey that they were looking towards success in their profession rather than integrity of their being as women.
It was their bed and they choose to lie in it with Harvey Weinstein. That's pretty low.
53
Years ago I taught at a large state university. After a gang rape on campus I became active working to stop sexual assault on campus. I met young women who also sensed something was wrong; but a dorm room got locked, they were physically overpowered, or a laced drink made them incapable of walking. Luckily your friend was allowed to leave when she chose to. Also during that time several dear friends volunteered their own horrific rape experiences. I was shocked- we were so close I assumed they would have previously told me. Both experiences taught me rape’s extensive reach and prevalence in society: survivors are next to us on the bus, at Church, the office, and the school bake sale. Most women don’t report being raped. But they carry it with them for the rest of their lives.
134
@revfred2000
Maybe your dear friend came from money or had an emotional support system or, or...
It is acceptable that you find the sentence fair, but the rest of your comment leaves me feeling physically ill.
One ounce of equivalency between this predator and his victims - even those who made complicated choices - is one ounce too many.
21
@revfred2000 Imagine having to make that choice: your integrity or success with your talent, because some entitled lech can force you to do so. Heads I win, tails you lose.
9
This verdict will have several epoch-making consequences. The one I’m most eager to see is the end of the casting couch in Hollywood and less specifically, trading (consensual or otherwise) of sexual favours at workplaces. The grotesquely tragic example of Harvey Weinstein will inform men of all ages and all walks of life, that the times have well truly changed and that they’re playing by old rules in a new game.
114
@AS Madhavan If it's not consensual, it's not a trade.
1
@AS Madhavan
One result that I expect to see is that fewer untalented actresses and actors will find work as fewer producers and directors will be willing to trade a boost to someone's career in exchange for sex.
3
@AS Madhavan I do not think this ruling will put an end to the casting couch, sorry to say.
Believe survivors. It is extremely difficult to tell authorities about sexual assault, even more so to press charges. Victims may feel even more vulnerable after making an attack public, especially if stalking is happening. And consider what Christine Blasey Ford went through—death threats, sneered at by my senator, having to move her home. Speaking up is HARD. So listen, listen, listen.
324
Cambridge Dictionary:
1. a person who continues to live, despite nearly dying:
2. a person who is able to continue living their life successfully despite experiencing difficulties .
52
@GP Sexual assault can be a threat to a woman's life. Some women who have been assaulted commit suicide. Here is just one study from the NIH:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8281805
Your claim is the exception that proves the rule. It is analogous to the right's claim about voter fraud v voter suppression. The former happens in proportionately miniscule occurrences v the latter.
What you say is one of the reasons I imagine predators consider sexual assault the perfect
crime. It is so easy to deny.
17
@GP - since you are listening - the use of
"Survivor" seems very appropriate to me! There have been lies, technically true but not common. The fact that these issues seem important to you shows how much you need to listen!
2
Many of the comments I read about the victims in the comments section in The NY Times regarding this case were so ignorant and offensive it kinda blew my mind. We do have such a long way to go--despite somewhat of a victory today for the victims in this case. Weinstein did this for over 30 years to probably hundreds of young women then hired an army of spies including former Mossad agents in an attempt to stop these women from going public with sexual misconduct claims against him. He was a serial sexual predator. It was his MO. And in some cases it was outright rape. The fact that so many people focus on criticizing the women as opposed to on Weinstein's years of sexual sexual predation of many, many, many women is pretty astounding, especially in 2020. Thank you to all the brave women that came forward.
524
@Anonymous I could not have said it as well as you did....thank you. I, too, am shocked by some of the comments. People need to read Ronan Farrow's Catch and Kill to fully understand what Weinstein was doing and why these women were so afraid to talk....and in the case of Rose McGowan...couldn't trust anyone.
18
@megan Yes. And people wonder in the comments why women don't come foward or come forward sooner.
7
@megan See also Rebecca Solnit's piece today: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/25/opinion/harvey-weinstein-verdict.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
6
What a huge relief that Weinstein is being held accountable for his crimes! I thought he’d find a way to get out of this - pay enough money, sow enough doubt - and deflate the movement to bring justice for generations of women exploited and abused by men in positions of power. This isn’t just a victory for women, but for all humanity.
193
@Andrew
Yes, but it could be a victory lost if LA prosecutors fail to prosecute adequately because Weinstein receives an essentially life-term number of years at sentencing in NY.
On the other hand, if NY gives a lesser sentence, say, 7 years to make other cases worth prosecuting to the fullest, I am concerned California prosecutors might still try to avoid paying to have their state pay for housing Weinstein additionally in the California correctional system.
Yes, @Andrew, although this is a win, perhaps it is too soon to be "a huge relief."
It is not over yet.
2
@Lone Poster
I assume he will get 5 years and be paroled after 2 1/2 years.
1
I read an article similar to this one about another powerful entertainment figure, Bill Cosby, who was finally convicted of a sex crime after dozens of accusers were discounted. That conviction was hailed as a watershed, too. The real problem in this country is represented by the votes of 62 million+ citizens who put Trump in the WH. Those votes speak much louder than the convictions of men like Weinstein and Cosby.
26
I've been a nurse for 27 years. Just curious, does the me too movement know what the term nurses used to use to "eat their young"? There was a lot of verbal abuse of senior nurses towards younger grads. Women can be just as horrible towards other women too if not worse.
10
@Liz Clarifying question: are you suggesting that verbal abuse is analogous to sexual assault?
7
@Liz
My supervisor was terminated for sexual abuse. His biggest defenders, and those who cast the worst aspersions on the accuser, calling her a crazy vengeful ex girlfriend, were women.
It's horrible how women are socialized to keep other women down. Because if there's something wrong with her or she made a mistake, I'm safe. Right?
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I'm going to refrain from commenting on the article; plenty of people will do that. What I do want to say is that the illustration for this piece is staggeringly powerful and insightful. It tells so much of the whole story and the feeling of the whole story (and history) in one glance. A very apt picture is worth 100,000 words. My kudos to Mr. Stauffer.
What it does bring to mind is that Harvey Weinstein embodies some of the most crude, violent and primitive aspects of men of our species. The inventiveness and expressivity of Mr. Stauffer's work here represents the artistry of our species at it's best.
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I just came here to write exactly the same sentiment. The illustration made me gasp. It says everything and more.
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"Mr. Weinstein’s prosecutors were able to break through a barrier common to many assault cases, a lack of physical or other corroborating evidence."
When in American jurisprudence was a lack of evidence seen as a barrier to anything but injustice? Justice was done here but by due process of law, not by the current method of conviction by mere accusation in social media, which that comment appears to support. If this were a case of a conviction of an illegal border crossing due to "a lack of physical or other corroborating evidence," what would the commentary be to that?
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The issue here is that although there may not have been physical evidence, given the delay in reporting the crime, the women’s testimony is evidence. Our culture has not placed appropriate emphasis on credible testimonial evidence about sexual assault in the past. That this is shifting will allow more perpetrators to be convicted.
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@Rory The testimony was indeed evidence, and justice was served, but remember, Rory, that you, and anyone else reading this, could one day be falsely accused of a crime. Unproven accusations are made every day, and the rules are purposefully designed to make conviction difficult. Innocence is no defense against accusation, but it is a defense against conviction; in between lies justice.
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Please indulge my curiosity here: how would you distinguish “credible” testimonial evidence from not-so-credible evidence? Or what makes a testimony credible to you?
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I as a man feel that "we are all, stilll victims" ; The lead defense lawyer is a woman, isn't that true? I wonder if a woman wants to press forward her case of sexual harassment, wiill she read the hours of questioning that the Weinstein accusers went through, and feel more confident in the outcome? So many women voted for Mr. Trump and will probably do so again, sustaining a pre-Weinstein nostalgia. If we look around us, are our mass audience sports massive celebrations of men's hunger for violent entertainment. Is that at all changing? Is the bullying and conformity culture in the locker-rooms from junior high onward, diminishing? .Are fathers now more reassured that their daughters are telling them the real facts of everyday life in their school or office? Are husbands and wives more reassured that the medical data used to inform their GP of various options and treatment outcomes are based on womens' as well as mens' bodies/reactions?
Have the babes come such a long way to be more like us?
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This is a watershed moment.
And, even more important than holding heinous predators like Mr. Weinstein accountable; I believe this one conviction will have two additional transformational outcomes:
1) Powerful men in this country will no longer feel certain that they can get away with devastating sexual assault crimes; and
2) The foundation of patriarchy -- the most stable, horrific and violent element of human cultures for the last 10,000 years or so -- is finally beginning to crumble.
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@Mark Keller. I would add organized religion to patriarchy as the two most dangerous trends in human history. The two seem to go together with depressing regularity.
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@Stephanie Mizrahi
Profoundly true: the subjugation of women with the added weight of being "God's design". Sick.
As a person who values spirituality, the "organized" part of "organized religion" has visited terrible moral crimes on all humanity.
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I’ll believe that if and when Trump is voted out of office and then convicted for crimes against women that he bragged about.
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At least for the forseeable future, Harvey will be right where he belongs, behind bars. With time, he will hopefuly come to recognize he's not innocent.
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This verdict is nothing less than historic. It proves that you can and should speak your truth, even to the powerful. I hope this jury's decision will give confidence to all of us that the law is not there to protect men alone.
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Statutes of limitation on all sex crimes need to be abolished, not just in cases of child abuse. I was raped 43 years ago when I was 20 years old, and every detail of that unpunished crime is as vivid in my mind as the day it happened. It took the rage of a multitude of women to bring partial justice to bear on one powerful predator. We still have a very long way to go.
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@rb
I absolutely agree. It’s a lifetime of pain for the Victim. Why should the Perpetrators have a “ Get out of Jail Free “ Card, after only a few Years ? They should be worried about getting “ Caught “, until they finally ARE.
Best wishes to You.
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@rb
Very sorry to read about the rape you suffered.There are many ways to heal lifelong wounds. Revenge is only one of them. Best wishes to you.
@rb
Coincidentally, also 43 years ago a man cornered me at knife-point and demanded sex (he called it "making love").
I managed to escape without physical harm and went to the local police. Despite the police being able to catch him in part because of a sketch I drew of the rapist (I was and am a portrait artist, and he was a rapist even if he didn't succeed in my instance) he was never charged.
Harvey Weinstein is the personification of my would-be rapist. His trial outcome gives me hope that my would-be rapist was eventually caught in another act and punished, since being able to escape prosecution most likely encouraged him more than being pulled over by the police and questioned "taught him a lesson." Conviction and confinement are sometimes the only solution.
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He fought the Law, and the Law Won. Justice delayed is still Justice, although not as Sweet. But consider this: he WILL go to Prison, and will NOT enjoy His treatment there. And it just may be His last years on this Earth, if appearance is any indication.
My greatest respect to all those Brave Women, you were magnificent.
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It shows that we, that our daughters, that our mentees, that our coworkers, WE must report all such abuse. And that the police must listen and record.
I reported, and wasn’t heard. My daughters, should this happen to them, must be heard. Life is different now. What happened to me, happened. It can’t happen to my daughters.
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With his many years and many victims of abuse 5 years seems like a very short sentence.
It is good progress and it will help with employees with means or those who are employed by larger companies, but how will women without resources, who work in smaller companies and are in fear of retribution, assert their rights?
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@Bronx Jon Maybe by saying his name when they file their grievances. This instance of justice, while not total, will help.
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What does the conviction of Harvey Weinstein also demonstrate? That a conviction CAN be achieved even when the circumstances are complicated. True, Weinstein will not receive the full punishment that I believe his crimes warrant, but the resounding message for me is one of hope. Harvey Weinstein is behind bars tonight. The days of committing sexual assault with impunity are coming to an end.
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