Yet Trump trumpeted to 100,000 Indians and his tried and blue (actually red) base that the economy has never been stronger. He is panicking because the stock market highs are the only thing really keeping him afloat politically and if the investor class abandons him, he may be doomed. Guess Mother Nature isn’t so fond of him either.
6
America has managed to dodge the bullet for the three plus years Trump has been in the White House. No major disruptions to challenge his “leadership” skills. Now, something evil this way comes. Blame fake news, witch hunts, and previous administrations, then borrow more Chinese money and divert Pentagon dollars to build a wall along both coasts? Ah, heck no, when’s our tee time...
2
Our cognitively challenged "president" put together a recommended budget a few weeks ago. His recommendation was to cut several billion dollars from expenditures on public health. Apparently he does things like this because he is not able to plan or imagine even one day into the future. Now, after the Dow dropped 1,000 points today, the "president" has seen the light. His true constituents, the 1% must be very upset at the prospect that their investments are going to go south.
We are in a race to remove this individual from the White House before what is shaping up to be a world-wide pandemic arrives on our shores and sickens and kills many Americans.
Vote in November. Lives depend on it.
6
The corona virus is just an excuse for the large banks and hedge funds to create a plunge in the markets.
If you only read the newspapers just a week or 2 before this "correction", you'll have read that all is rosy, and predictions from many analysts was for the market to continue growing.
For the many that are now losing money, there are the few elitist financiers who are making billions shorting the stock markets.
4
Good. I'd like to see what happens when your virtual world of currency trading, and speculation, and whatever else it is that you do comes crashing down.
6
It's rather weird that no matter how much all the experts try to divert a share market crash or property market crash all the markets seem to outwit the experts and there will eventually be a financial market crash. History repeating itself.
5
3.3 % , is it a plummet ?
What about the irrational exuberance of the past three years ? Inflating stock values with political bias should be made a very serious crime punishable with very heavy fines and long term imprisonments, instead of easy pardons and commutations of political friends !
3
@Gnana Sampanthan exactly, this market has been irrationally overvalued. A 3% correction is no cause for alarm. If it continues, maybe that's another story.
How sad, that at the end of the day, it's still all about the money.
5
The real danger of this flashpoint - or really any crisis that could spark a global recession - is that under Trump we focused on short term market growth by keeping interest rates artificially low. We did not save for a rainy day when we had the chance. Now when something happens - as it always does - we have very little ability to lower rates enough to spark a recovery. Trump and rich folks don’t care though - they will rush in the buy everything up for pennies on the dollar after the crash while demanding additional tax incentives to support the “recovery” they are so selflessly funding in spite of “hardship”.
8
@Jason A correction is time for the investor class to begin another round of separating the little people from any value theyve accumulated in the runup.
gosh, it would be nice to have a functional government right now. I think it's in the bathtub being drowned
12
It was just reported that the Trump administration has asked Congress to approve $2 billion to fight the coronavirus. People have been criticizing President Trump saying he has not done enough to tackle this dreaded disease. Well he is now. The hate Trumpers are at it again. They will never stop. It is reasons like this while he will be re-elected.
3
The corona virus is the straw may break the camel’s back. The market has been unrealistically buoyant, thanks to Trump’s essential elimination of taxes, and wildly reduced responsabilities for corporations. But wages have stagnated, the air and the water are more toxic, corporations and the hyper wealthy have been allowed to pay little or no taxes. This chicken we have been craving is coming to roost. The blame is not on the cornonavirus, though it’s a very nasty thing, but on it’s being the tipping vector. The corona virus will become a symbol of everything that ails us today.
11
We've been sinking into fascism, default and civil war for three years, and the markets finally see some risk in the environment. The virus threat is real, but so is the threat from Trump. I can't say I've researched it, but I'm willing to bet the markets in Germany were doing very well in 1938, just loving that expanding economy. Businessmen, like senators, are not sources of wisdom or far-sightedness. "'Cause when you're rich, they think you really know..."
9
Couldn't have anything to do with a man whose avowed propose is to destroy capitalism becoming the front runner to win the Democratic nomination. It's fine if you want Bernie, but you better not be depending on your 401k for retirement...tradeoffs.
1
@Grover
Funny that you brought up “trade offs”- at this point, I would take anybody in place of budding fascism...
5
Am I the only one who actually hopes for an economic slowdown so we can finally get rid of those corrupt Republicans? As much as I would hate to have a long term economic slowdown, I suspect that may be the only way to get rid of Trump.
24
govt asking for billions to combat corona. trump wants billions for wall but that's more important. where's the logic.
6
Secretary of Homeland Insecurity Cucinnelli couldn’t find his Coronavirus map today. Maybe he has it filed under Coronation for King Trump. The rest of us are having a Coronary as we observe the most incompetent administration in the history of the Republic.ans. (Puns intended)
Anybody but Trump in 2020 (even another republican looks appealing at this point).
12
Our government in New Zealand has set up a fund to compensate businesses for lack of business and cancelled export orders because of this coronavirus. Has the USA government done the same?
5
There’s not much need compared to NZ which is much more heavily reliant on tourism and trade with China. Also the headline is overblown, market futures say we’ll recover 2/3 of the drop from yesterday at market open.
3
Even is Trump stayed in the White House and did some actual work for 8-12 hours, he doesn't have the 'smarts' to deal with any issue or solve any problem. And neither do his top advisors,
19
I'm in New Zealand and the virus hasn't arrived here yet but is expected to arrive in our winter. We're in summer at the moment. I just heard our top person in the Health Department say that NZ government is preparing for a pandemic. At least our government is preparing for this, even if it is not in New Zealand yet. With some luck we mightn't get it as we are a thin narrow small nation surrounded by the sea with lots of fresh air and a small population.
8
The market will fluctuate. The big question is: will we learn anything from it? It's time for the World Health Organization to have more power in international health evolutions, and for all governments to maintain their health data at a universally acceptable level. When the bubonic plague came to Europe, it came aboard a sailing trading vessel, riding on rats. How much faster can a bug be dispersed when it comes riding on passengers in an airplane.
7
@William Burgess Leavenworth
and riding on custom made cruise ships to incubate the virus and the carriers !
2
Thanks, Trump.
6
@Dean Rosenthal
trump believes whatever Xi Yinping says !
Trump fired them.
1
Couldn't have had anything with a guy who wants to smash capitalism moving very close to clinching to Democratic nomination...
3
@Grover Why yes! It's Bernie's fault! That's why Asian and European markets crashed too, isn't it?
14
@Bill If the largest economy in the world considers putting a stake through the heart of it's economy, that's going to have knock-on effects. It's fine if you want Bernie, but please do understand the tradeoffs that will involve if he were to actually be elected and somehow get a liberal (not just the swing states) Senate to do his bidding.
Couldn't have had anything with a guy who wants to smash capitalism moving very close to clinching to Democratic nomination...
1
We have seen the coronavirus impact, both in China and in countries outside. Stock markets and economies are beginning to react. What we are not saying here is what is it we should do, in the event a similar situation would arise in the future. China has been allowed to become the world's production center. It is like allowing all eggs to be stored in one basket. Is it not time to start diversifying that strategy?
It can be a crisis similar to the coronavirus, a natural disaster or something else. In any case, it is unwise to concentrate on one location, as we now see in the case of China.
11
Nobody is pointing this out but today was also the first US market session since Sanders’ dominant win in Nevada
3
@Robt Little I hear Fox News is polluting the airwaves with this Fake News.
12
Are you suggesting there is some causation?
@CL
I don’t think Robert Little understands the difference between causation and correlation.
3
I just did a web search for, nz sharemarket today, and three quarters of the arrows on the NZX are red and facing downwards. And we haven't got the coronavirus yet, but it's expected to arrive in winter as the government has stocked up on a couple of million surgical masks and has prepared for it to arrive in winter.
As the virus isn't here yet, I think it's more to do with the disruption to trade and businesses because of this virus. It's a worldwide virus freakout!
4
Trump cut back on Research and Development funding when he was elected President. Too many governments with experimental virus laboratories, in undeveloped nations, and no safeguards or government rules and regulations to stop the accidental release of some unknown experimental virus that was man-made in a laboratory. The more and more chemicals in the world, the more chance of this being a regular occurrence that cannot be contained.
Who ever thought a virus would cause the next sharemarket crash! So, now, maybe USA medical scientists will get more Research funding, now this virus is about to cause a share market crash.
10
Also cut a lot of important health related govt jobs, including epidemic response experts back in 2018.
12
Wow, while respectful to the many deaths of this illness and the families touched, the American stock markets really took a big hit. I wonder what this Coronavirus has done to markets across the world. Anyone have a sense of that?
Will China examine the practice of open air meat markets, and the handling of live, wild food stocks? I don't understand the traditional practices involved, but it is obvious that the health impacts as well as the economic ripples may justify this review.
Just saying.
3
While we’re at it, the US must end reckless routine feeing of antibiotics to livestock. The practice fattens the animals, but breeds superbugs which can infect humans, food borne illness in humans, and causes antibiotic resistance.
10
Well, if the economy hits a hard recession, the Fed will have fewer tools at its disposal thanks to Trump & GOP running up massive deficits, pressuring the Fed to keep interest rates low, and giving corporations untold millions of dollars in deficit-funded tax breaks in the 2017 tax legislation.
And what also won't help: Trump's trade wars and tariffs; mistreatment of allies and erosion of trust and goodwill; economic illiteracy guiding his interference in the functioning of the economy; and support and subsidies for his base (farmers, fossil fuels, steel companies, etc.) at the expense of more competitive sectors of the economy.
You reap what you sow, as Trump & congressional GOP might discover.
17
Well, maybe fewer tools to help poor people. They'll save their own like they always do.
10
This is a potential national emergency. Where is the Washington leadership?
13
Doc- Giving a speech in India in front of 100,000 people who thought they’d come for a cricket match.
8
Fools, one and All. If this does not constitute a wake - up call for the stupid side of overly outsourcing everything, I don't know what does. As Forrest's mom said " Stupid is, as Stupid does".
7
No worries. As Wilbur Ross stated on January 30, 2020 the coronavirus can be good as it could lead to jobs coming back to the United States. Hehehe. It doesn't matter if you're qualified in the Trump administration as long as you're a loyal toady.
17
If you've been in this stock market for a while, good for you. Now it's time to sell. The writing is on the wall. Something in your gut is probably telling you it's time as the evidence of a sinking economy piles up: record deficits, record corporate and personal debt, lack of investment in workers, education, health and infrastructure, massive inequality, layoffs in manufacturing and in start-up technology companies, and a clueless, rudderless administration led by a real dope. There are still people today whose 401ks never recovered from the last republican fiasco in 2008. If you've got a 401k, good for you. Protect it, because those fund managers aren't going to protect it for you. Get out now, protect your home, your health and your kids education, because this current administration sure as hell won't.
10
@Angela
I would think that about a week ago was the time to sell.
6
I shall be skewered for this comment, but if a disease-induced markets crash is the only way to oust Trump and his lickspittle Netanyahu, then you will have to pardon when I ridicule their misfortune. Those living in poverty (both in Israel and the USA) are not getting any help from these two muttonheads as things stand anyway. I but I'm not the only person harboring these thoughts.
14
@Yitzhak
You will only be skewered by Trump (and Netanyahu) toadies. The rest of us in both countries nod in approval about getting rid of both, even as we truly hope the human toll does not end up as bad as it seems like it could be.
3
This is an excellent of an example of the difference between "Leadership" and "complete weakness and panic". Headlines on Trump - essentially " We got this" Head lines of NYTs " panic its the end - corona is everywhere.
Its easy to be a leader when surrounded by sniveling victims who like nothing better than to panic.
1
#NatureBatsLast
5
who knew that by signing phase I trade deal with china that all kinds of "goods" will be shipped across the globe.
2
I can only believe that Wall Street needed the money in folks' savings, and thus found an excuse to take it back. It's ridiculous. The casino known as Wall Street is the next dinosaur that needs massive revision.
12
OUR NATION IS ORGANIZED TO PROTECT PRIVATE WEALTH NOT PUBLIC HEALTH.
How do we expect to beat an epidemic without UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE? Will people with high deductibles (as in most insurance), co-pays, or no insurance actually get checked out if they suspect they have it? No. Even if you have great insurance, you're not protected from getting sick from those who don't.
How can we beat it without laws requiring PAID SICK LEAVE? Will restaurant and other employees miss a day's pay (and risk losing their apartments or cars) in order to stay home when their sick? No.
How can we beat it without job protections, like union contracts and laws prohibiting firings without just cause? Will employees risk staying home when ill, if they face the possiblity of getting fired? Most won't.
Universal healthcare, mandated sick leave days, and real job protections are elements of a civilized and healthy society. They're the norm in much of the world. Sen. Sanders & Sen. Warren are the Presidential candidates who advocate for a healthy society.
28
your mis-stating would Bernie Sanders said. he condemned the autocratic nature of Cuba's government but said that they had done good things and pointed out literacy.
14
Sanders said he admired the literacy program while decrying authoritarianism.
Are we going to apply this equitably? What about moderate/centrists who have voted for illegal wars, or expressed support for Middle East dictators? Hillary Clinton said the Mubaraks were her friends.
What about the current occupant of the White House who likes Putin, Kim Jung Il, the Saudis, Netanyahu and now Modi?
What about Republicans who backed Central American death squads, CIA interventions in South America and Iran?
23
US stock prices are still very high, even after this fall. They may have been high 5000 points ago. There is no "just price" for any stock - they trade at the price investors are willing to pay.
The main thing to worry about is that momentum will be reversed. The two tailwinds have been stock buybacks and index investing in 401K accounts. If companies stop buying back their stock, and retirement investors pull money out of the S&P, then there could be a prolonged correction.
7
Regarding another epidemic, Trump's guy running the CDC has been rightfully "accused of manipulating data from the [test] trial, 'sloppy or, possibly, deceptive' data analysis, and overstating results in a number of talks and publications." This is the guy overseeing the spread of the virus in the U.S. This is where Trump's incompetence as a leader starts showing itself. It's on him now, and he trotted off to India to be coddled by a tyrant.
16
These 401(k) funds took a beating in 2008 — and it could happen again
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/13/these-retirement-funds-took-a-beating-in-2008-it-could-happen-again.html
Imagine being two years away from retirement and seeing your 401(k) — which you may have thought was shielded from massive market corrections — tank by more than 20 percent.
[My Son and Daughter-in-law lost 40K]
7
If you're two years away from retirement your portfolio should be mostly bonds which have been enjoying a little boost recently.
And all this against a US wall street environment where the DOW has gone up (had gone up) almost 30% while corporate profits have not risen at all since 2016. Shouldn't take a plague to make investors wary although stock market "guru's" always like to blame it on an external factor and what is better than China.
9
@richard funny how quiet the market manipulator in chief has been pretty quiet about the market. Guess he is only responsible for ups
11
And in a couple days, the very rich folks and the computers that manipulate the markets will buy back into the market with the mega profits they earned from this sell off. The markets are the vehicles for the wealthy to play with middle class retirement funds. Everybody else just has to wait until they stop working, by choice or, more likely, chance.
13
@The Deli Rama (Ham on Wry) - Well, there's nothing to stop you from doing the same thing. Just open an account and start trading - let's see how you do. It's easy, right?
4
He is talking about high frequency trading (aka: the computers that manipulate the market). what is stopping you from doing the same thing? Just a few billion to get your machine as physically close to the NYSE as possible so you can intercept and piggyback large, volitle trades. It is the purest scam there is. The ultimate insider information.
5
Locusts in Africa where millions will lose their crops, Trump in the White House, and now a new virus that few if any people are immune to. Which is worse?
5
@Mike C.
D.) All of the above.
4
I know it is breaking news, but I am worried about the appearance of unresolved outbreaks in countries like Italy or Israel, without a clue as to how it started and spread.
Highly speculative as it might be, isn't it possible for sinister actors to intentionally spread COVID-19? We know which body fluids transmit the virus and people who were infected and recovered (as most do) could become bioterrorism perpetrators with no risk to themselves. Is that just a crazy idea or not?
1
AGolstein- It’s people not washing their hands, sneezing without covering their mouths and hordes sharing the French toast tongs in the buffet lines of a couple of gigantic cruise ships.
1
Now is the perfect time to defund the CDC, NIH and WHO.
4
The complete opposite of what we should do.
8
@Stephen Pretty sure that comment was sarcastic.
11
@Harry B
What have you got against Roger and Pete?
2
48 years ago I saw a film called Death in Venice. It was a dystopian tale of a deadly late nineteenth- early 20th century plague by the Italian director Visconti, as I recall. 1972 was also an election year which witnessed the return of Richard Nixon to a second term already doomed but unknown at the time by election interference attempts in his name. If history doesn't exactly repeat itself, it sometimes comes eerily close.
7
If in fact we are still the USA and not some CCCP satalite republic than “ a friend in need is a friend in deed”
There was a Marshall plan when the world was in dire need and honestly if we don’t remember how to step up to a challenge than what good are we?
1
The entire rebound in stocks since 2009 has been at the hands of the central bank ongoing interventions and government debt expansion. At some point every bubble seeks a pin and we are living in the era of nearly every asset class in a bubble. "The Everything Bubble" Courtesy of our central bank creating the greatest credit bubble in all of recorded history.
10
There is enough irony / schadenfreude to go around here.
On Trump as he touts the market as an arbiter of his economic ‘program’, as he hacks away at CDC funding among other things that would help stem the tide here. #ScienceWins
On Dems now going down the lane with Sanders whose centerpiece is a complete government takeover of healthcare. China, whatever else is true, is a country where there is no private option, the government controls every aspect of the health care delivery system. So without a private option, we have seen the instinctive reaction of bureaucrats who run the system trying to cover up a global pandemic.
And where are global health experts coming from? That’s right, the United States, with it’s world class health care system.
#DontBreakItBernie
2
China has both private medical systems & insurance. Please get your information straight! Even if Bernie is elected, the US will have private options. However, they will be regulated like the rest of the world!
15
@JerseyJon
If the US has a “world class health system” (your words) where are the results? Shorter lives at more cost than the rest of the developed world. And contrary to your misguided beliefs, the US does not have a monopoly on health experts. You should try to open your eyes to what is going on in the entire world beyond the borders of your own country.
10
As usual a massive overreaction by the stock market...to be followed tomorrow by a massive overreaction to the upside, I’m predicting 400 to 500 points.
5
If you're not retiring any time in the next decade, you should be throwing cash into the stock market right now.
3
@David When a thousand point crash day ends at its low point I would be wary of such advice until the air clears.
2
@richard Conversely, if you’re in, stay in. Don’t sell low.
3
Not to worry. The President says it will all disappear when the weather gets warmer. Virus indeed.
10
i dont want to sound callous or like an optimist gone wild, but, really stop wasting resources on a futile attempt to control a disease that is worldwide and not going to be curtailed that way, and get on a medical and science response and be aware humans will most probably do most of the work by creating immunities and other human strengths to essentially defeat corona, just as with mers and sars.
6
I sincerely hope. Americans take this designer virus seriously !
It may not be from a bio-weapon laboratory, but it is new and from new and exotic source peculiar to a social system and its customs.
When I tried to alert my family when the first news came in our news media, there was the typical rebuff and I was very sad. But, the outbreak seems alarming day after day and we still don’t know how much Mr. Xi Yinping is willing to tell the world, this is what is alarming ! But, the virus is invading beyond the borders of China !
Beware !
2
from The Daily Kos "Trump's incompetence and cuts to health infrastructure are the biggest threat to the nation's health"
Monday February 24, 2020
There. That says it all.
20
Thinking I should buy more stock in cough drops. Thanks Trump. Not his fault but he'd say the same about thing the other guy. Also perhaps the DHS should listen to the CDC. Frankly the best people left the dumpster fire of an Administration a long long time ago. As for the stock market oh well it's just paper money anyway. They say" hey, at least you have your health"
5
Good thing we have a Very Stable Genius at the helm, and that he's focused like a laser beam on what's truly best for the country. Otherwise, I'd be concerned...
21
Aside from the impact this virus may have on the stock market, our President might want to break with his practice of hearing only what he wants to hear, and instead solicit the advice of experts in the field of disease transmission. Unless he has as one of his goals to cull the population.
8
The mere idea of a Sanders' presidency and the virus took the markets down today.
2
All you need is one confirmed case in Washington, D.C., and the Germophobe-In-Chief will never be seen outside the WH ever again, as he will be too busy sealing all door jambs and windows with plastic and duct tape (he learned that from Bibi)...
I've heard of flesh-eating bacteria, but perhaps someone from the "Deep State" left a briefing paper on his desk stating that this was a makeup-eating biological threat...
What a tough guy- until a germ threatens him ("COVFEFE-19! It's the worst germ in history, folks. It is a very, very bad virus- the worst EVER!!!")
18
The ‘stable genius,’ who is off with his extended crime family posing for photo ops at the Taj Mahal, says nothing. Naturally.
15
Are we sure the coronavirus is only spread by people?……
Might the virus also be spread by contact with infected clothing, goods, container ships, planes, any other items,
BUT
Especially imported goods from China and other infected countries………..
Might there be an international embargo somewhere down the road?……….
If so, hopefully it's enacted before it's too late — sooner rather than later………...
2
@RB
Nope...........
Coronaviruses don't last long on surfaces. Hours at most.
9
If the surface is cold, the CDC says the virus will be viable for 30 days.
1
The virus will be cured. The disease in the White House and Senate is a greater threat.
35
Time to be afraid. ..
1
These market movements coincided with Bernie Sanders coming out as top Dem nominee. That would seem to be a more likely cause than Covid19, whose trajectory has not really changed. Sanders hostile to capitalists, and makes no secret of it.
1
@Sean Macdonald
Except the trajectory of the virus has dramatically changed, with a very serious outbreak in Italy developing over the weekend. Bernie Sanders is not affecting the stock market.
16
Except Bernie Sanders had no effect on the cruise or travel industries, no effect on causing quarantines across China and Italy (consumers and employees stuck at home), no effect on China’s oil demand/price of oil, no effect on Apple’s ability to build gadgets to sell, or to sell within one of their largest markets (China), etc.
3
They will eventually get this under control. But there will be a next one and a next one, and one day there will be an unstoppable virus because we have overpopulated this planet to the breaking point.
We are being warned. Do we realize it?
212
@Will. -----"We are being warned. Do we realize it?"
No, corporate profits and reelection are all that matters.
40
@Will.
Was the Bubonic Plague also a warning of overpopulation. The Spanish Flu?
6
@Will. ...it is not just overpopulation, it is disease from lack of hygiene, destruction of the environment, gutting of natural resources, destruction of the pollinators, polluted water, polluted air, chocking on plastic etc etc. The greedy have caused this and they will suffer from their own greed driven actions. Wealth does not make one a leader, these people are unfit to lead due their immorality and lack of ethics and plain stupidity about life on Earth.
28
Trump's critics are secretly -- and not so secretly -- cheering.
8
@AACNY
Where is the evidence of this? I and my entire social circle despise Trump and not a single one I know feels this way. The only one I saw cheering was Wilbur Ross.
90
@AACNY. What a thing to say. No one I know takes any pleasure in people’s suffering due to this virus or other causes. Perhaps those like you, an apparent Trump supporter, are so used to and support the cruelty in the man’s actions and words that you assume the rest of us are like that too. How sad. My only hope that is that Mr. Trump will stop trying to severely cut funding for the CDC, pandemic and disease security programs, and for other public health initiatives that help keep us all safe.
109
Dear AACNY, I’d consider myself something much more than a “critic” of President Trump. I am a petrified citizen who fears and loathes his very existence. I am not cheering on these health and economic disasters. I do, however see a biblical metaphor for what this virus is doing to people and what President Trump and his sickening allies are going to societal norms and our constitution. False prophets(profits), “Reaping What You Sow,” those kinds of things.
76
I deride an economy built on growth because I know that the best way to build a new thing is to tear down the old one. Restoration is impractical, we need a clean slate. War, disease, famine and pestilence are the winning combination for ushering the New World Order.
Edgar Casey and Revelations make a little more sense with every passing news story.
2
@Uncle Peevish You aren't the first person over the past 10,000 years who proclaims the end is near, yet here we are.
6
@Uncle Peevish
Fictions promulgated by the likes of Edgar Cayce and Revelations are no better than the generalizations that pseudosciences like astrology have to offer. One can rationalize events in any time frame to fit.
3
How many COVID-19 cases are there in India? Just because they have not published any cases does not mean that they do not have any. More Chinese tourists travel to India to see the great Taj than Venice. Plus India has lots of students in Wuhan who may have returned for holiday. India’s population density is just as high but they as a country are collectively much poorer.
Hospitals in China, India and unfortunately are only for the rich. The Taj has never been so clean for our beloved germaphobic.
4
Many diseases plague our world and the US and the coronavirus is only the most recent and obvious as it hurts world trade and the profits of international businesses. And Trump will only care about it because it may hurt his chances for reelection. But where is the outrage when Trump cuts the government agencies and research that might stop these epidemics before they happen or our vulnerability to such infections such as mercede and other bacteria and viruses that resist our current treatments. Why is that only a stock market crash is needed for action to take place when the only way to get ahead of super bugs is a constant investment and attention to all our health threats? Building more nuclear weapons will not fight a dangerous epidemic and Trump can not blame this on democrats.
9
I am in agreement with your idea that the world has become increasingly integrated and connected. When things are going well, that interconnectedness works to keep the global economy going, and has given us the consumer almost anything we want at low prices. However, this ease by which we are connected through travel and the ability to purchase almost anything from anywhere in the world is what allows a virus that begins in a city half the world away to cause a market swoon. I worry that the more we become connected by trade and ease of travel, the more susceptible we become to any illness, market disruption, or political disruption from anywhere in the world.
6
A thousand points of fright.
8
Trump is so bad -- dishonest, constantly bragging, preening, insulting, lying and bullying -- that I would accept a severe recession as the price for ridding our nation of him politically.
21
Not to worry. Expect a sharpy massaged message from the WH announcing that the corona virus has been contained and applauding the immediate Wall Street bounce back to levels never before realized.
9
Every comment with the word "Trump" in it is a smash. Apparently now Trump is supposed to anticipate virus' that don't even exist, guess where they will strike the most (undetermined as of today) and make some sort of "plans" in advance to deal with a temporary slowdown in production. It's crazy to even say things like this. Why can't Trump haters stick to real problems with that Toad instead of all this fanciful, illogical, nonsensical stuff? Especially during election season -- people read these comments, their eyes bug out then they go register Republican.
Bad impressions are being made of the levels of intelligent engagement of the liberal elite set. I am a die-hard progressive and even I find myself thinking, "Is this for-real seriously what my cohort thinks?" I'm uncomfortable and I can't be the only one.
3
Devil's advocate, guy stakes his success on a great stock market that he has little to do with, then guy must also take the undeserved credit for tanking it.
16
He surely deserved some credit as the tax cuts fueled a lot of the stock market growth. It’s more a matter of whether you believe this is a good or bad thing for our economy.
5
It was a long shot to be able to get through four years of whatever this “government” is without some international crisis threatening America.
8
I don't care if I lose money the stock market will came back eventually, getting rid of trump...
priceless.
24
North Americans are at much greater risk of being injured or killed by a distracted driver than COVID-19.
I say quarantine all the texting drivers out there, in the interests of public health and safety.
7
Easy cure. Donald Trump uses Twitter to label the coronavirus as "Never Trumper" and abolishes it in his typical Presidential manner.
6
‘It is irresponsible of the press to continue to stoke fear about Corona Virus when:
‘As the world focuses on coronavirus, a deadly flu has killed at least 10,000 Americans
By Meera Jagannathan
Published: Feb 9, 2020 9:40 am ET
At least 19 million people in the U.S. have experienced flu illnesses this season, the CDC says’
Flu 19,000,000 USA only
10,000 deaths
Coronavirus Cases: 79,773 Worldwide
Deaths: 2,629
Who benefits from this fear mongering?
In an election year?
@Catherine Its the death rate - 2% that is the concern. If we have 19 million COVID-19 infections then that is 380,000 deaths. Not exactly our typical influenza mortality rate.
11
This thing is just beginning.
WHO wonders maybe, possibly, do we have a pandemic?
We have had a pandemic for weeks now.
The economy is just beginning to take a major hit and will continue to do so as the virus covers the world.
No cure. No preparation. No nothing.
Just hand wringing and gnashing of teeth.
Business as usual.
7
Look, indeed, no singular leader is totally to blame for the increase and decreases in our economy.
But most everything I have read for 5 years has said that Trump's clams about what he could, personally and alone, do for 10 years had no allowance for the ebbs and flows in the US economy as linked to everyone else.
And off course, we could produce EVERYTHING in the US, but then if we couldn't sell it elsewhere, the dominoes would fall very quickly.
5
The economic consequence of the growing COVID-19 pandemic is finally sinking into a world prone to the bliss of ignorance or panicked by irrational fears. Hear the fear is rational because it has created uncertainties beyond even worst case scenarios of industrial and economic collapses with layoffs akin to nearly a century ago.
The world has never looked the way it does now considered in its totality with social media, climate change, a rogure president, and hyper nationalism around the world.
We need a president who can execute on economic and social recovery as well as reform.
7
Coronavirus my hind leg.
This is obviously a reaction to the strong showing in NV and nationwide polling released over the weekend.
President Sanders will be bad for some of those banks and pharmaceutical corps profits.
3
So everyone worries about their holdings vaporizing as the stock market crashes, but really there's nothing to worry about at all.
You see, when the market crashes, all the market investors have less purchasing power.
So if these market investors are purchasing less, law of supply and demand dictates the price of goods and commodities will fall, thereby adjusting to market investors' purchasing power.
So the market doesn't just suddenly disappear like a flatulent discharge in the wind, with investors suddenly poorer than they were before the adjustment... all that so-called "lost value" eventually translates into lower prices for goods and commodities.
Do you understand?
@Skeptical Cynic
That should read "...market value doesn't just suddenly disappear..."
1
What caused the virus is important but how it is commuted is more important. Stop the growth and then backpropagate the cause - like we did with Ebola. People who were healthy on cruise ships, breathing the same circulated air, got sick - did they already have it or did they breathe it in? Does it live on inanimate objects - meaning, touching contaminates? Is it biological warfare created by humans that some crazy let loose - seems to be hitting hardest in China and Iran? It takes months - years for specialist to create antidotes so I hope someone discovers how it spreads and the hopefully, we have an existing antidote that can quickly be modified to combat it.
5
Is it true that what distinguishes a pandemic from an outbreak is the word "uncontrolled"?
The powers-that-be refuse to call the coronavirus a pandemic, but it looks like a pandemic by any practical and reasonable definition of the word.
The spread of the coronavirus is out of control, isn't it?
No one in a position of authority is ever going to admit it out loud.
We have a long way to go before this pandemic is eventually brought under control, let alone eradicated.
We all believe what I've just said, but haven't yet accepted it and decided what we are going to do about it.
Hunker down.
Personal behavior, economic behavior.
Everyone is already beginning to do these things.
It's going to get much worse before it starts getting better.
Hunker down for your own good.
5
@S Butler
Pandemic means multiplying on multiple continents.
@TheraP Asia, Europe, North America. This would seem to qualify under that definition.
2
Trump always picks the worst candidate. I believed we will still be safe because the CDC is still run by a competent crew. It is about the last government agency in that situation. AS to the economy, well that is long overdue for a crash.Trump has been working with smoke and mirrors to convince people that the economy is better than it really is, and this incident may suffice for his house of cards to tumble down.
8
I understand, however, that unlike previous presidents he has political appointees on these committees, rather than physicians and public health experts. His whole approach to governance is going to be problematic through this crisis.
11
The scariest part of this isn’t the coronavirus; it’s that we have an ignorant narcissist in the White House, who will do anything to save himself at everyone else’s expense, surrounded by bootlicking sycophants who will do anything he says, no matter the comsequence.
22
Yet another example of how the stock market is one of the worst inventions in history. Idiots panic over something they fear MIGHT become catastrophic, and we rational people get negatively impacted.
4
As POTUS, it is Trump's prime responsibility to assure the Americans of US's preparedness to manage Corona virus crisis at home and even extend the help internationally as necessary.
I wonder, how many times the whiner-in-chief has said anything sincerely about US's readiness to combat the threat of Corona?
5
So glad Pompeo et al. decided to bring the 14 US citizens stuck on the cruise ship in Japan home by commercial carrier. They sat in a Corona virus incubator for weeks. They should not have been considered disease-free for a few weeks out of that environment. The CDC advised against it.
15
Trump was also upset that they returned. Why are you agreeing with him?
A person might wonder if President Trump and the people he hires have any awareness about what they don't know. The Federal Government has created many agencies and programs to deal with real world problems that many of us have never heard of, because there are real problems that pose serious threats. The Federal Government has the size and reach to create programs to deal with significant risks. It is clear that many republicans deny real things that are inconvenient to what they want to believe and do. Their lack of knowledge, and lack of caring about the population, might be enough to edge us over into a catastrophic future.
9
there are simple solutions to this but as we know most humans can't give up their habits whether they're cultural, religious or neurotic based. Wash your hands- frequently, especially after using the restroom, taking off your shoes, socks, handling raw foods. Stop hunting and eating wild animals. As for the farms: keep chickens away from pigs and pigs away from cows and the first 2 away from the cows. that's how most viruses jump species and then to us. Many people will say give up eating meat, well i say it doesn't matter, its the unsanitary habits of humans that counts, how many have died and gotten seriously ill from E-coli form fresh veggies, how many have gotten seriously ill from Norovirus? From the flu? More education and constant reinforcement form childhood through adult life until we're old an grey and we can't walk anymore. This is just a dream for people will rather hold onto their old school/superstitious habits than learn from science and common sense.
6
Too much remains unknown about this virus and its rapid spread in some places but not others. Even the incubation period is a guess.
I actually wonder if different strains aren't evolving, which would really make the search for a vaccine impossible.
The markets will gyrate wildly until medical progress is made. This is one thing the president can't control which will be make him even more erratic than ever.
He's already livid that the State Department insisted on evacuating infected cruise patients on the same plane as other passengers over the objections of the CDC. He's probably trying to figure out who to blame for this global pandemic, so it won't affect his election prospects, instead of accepting it for what it is: a crisis long in the making.
10
Has 45 found his Sharpie yet?
20
I just read where, there is some idiot on Fox News, arguing Sanders win in NV caused this crises. I feel better now that there no pandemic, just the immense power of one senator on the entire world economy.
8
I hope news the CDC's new austerity cuts don't further rattle the economy when word is out the United States is intentionally making itself more vulnerable to disease.
9
Imagine what this graph would look like if the vertical scale started at zero, instead of 3200.
It would be almost flat.
This is a typical way to misrepresent data, to give a false impression.
5
Trump has gutted all of the protections that were in place for tax cuts for the wealthy. If this virus becomes an epidemic in the US, the blood of our citizens will be on Trump’s hands. There will always be a price to pay for the immorality of Trump.
9
That’s all right. I’m sure the greedy boffins are already devising ever more complex ways to make money off of poor people’s misery, just like they did in the days before the 2008 crisis.
4
I find this news rather refreshing! Yes, refreshing! To think that investors are more concerned about their profits but not at all concerned about the health of our democracy, not seeming to care that we have a near-dictator occupying the Oval Office. Bah humbug to the stock market's investors!
9
Apparently, dictators are good for the economy*. Ahh, the winning we’re all doing.
*Until they’re not.
3
@eric I'm sure you'd be ecstatic if it turned into The Great Depression Mk II. Somebody would have to be happy about it, I suppose.
Not a big problem for America.
Donald Trump will start printing money in the basement again and the stocks will rise back to where they were before.
Thank goodness all of my money is in my pocket and not in the market.
2
This is madness. Even Warren Buffett has said that Corona virus is not a reason for selling stocks. It is profit taking by those buying low and selling high. But selling due to jitters at a loss is a loss too. Those with nerves of steel will hold on until they do their own research and not pay attention to the fear mongering. Yes COVID-19 has spread beyond its epicenter in Wuhan. China to S.Korea, Iran and Italy. There will be increased spending in sectors other than travel and tourism. I just advised a friend to postpone plans in June to take a cruise around Italy or get his money back if possible. Not the same as telling him to be foolish and sell his stocks.
5
Panic is way overblown. Meanwhile, the yearly flu marches on.
7
Thanks, globalism!
Export jobs, import glass brittle supply chains! Brilliant!
According to the CDC there were 34,200 deaths during the 2018–2019 influenza season in the United States.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html
Yeah, but let's all follow the media hype about coronavirus.
2
@Stefan Ackerman We know about the flu. It's horrible, but familiar. We don't yet know what will happen with COVID-19. It's small so far, but the growth is exponential. It's not irrational to worry.
4
@Stefan Ackerman We know about the flu. It's horrible, but familiar. We don't yet know what will happen with COVID-19. It's small so far, but the growth is exponential. It's not irrational to worry.
@M.
34,200 deaths to 5 and the best you can come up with is "it's horrible, but familiar"? No wonder we have Trump as president. The coronavirus is the least of our problems, but, by all means, keep deluding yourself.
1
And spring will return to the north once again and the Corona virus along with this 1k point plunge will too be a distant memory.
Sit tight folks and if you have some spare cash, get ready to buy.
8
Trump simply has to declare that coronavirus is a "hoax" and it will magically disappear! Easy!
Also, since Trumpites don't "believe in science," we have to assume that all Trumpites, including the denier-in-chief, will forgo taking a vaccine for coronavirus if the disease hits this country.
8
Hopefully this deadly virus will bring the countries of planet earth together to solve this and other problems facing our survival.
4
President Trump, taking a break from preening before adoring Indians, announced that the United States would switch from the dollar to the rupee. "We'll be richer than ever," he said while thousands cheered.
4
The quarantine bungling in Asia finally set off a world-wide counter reaction, and a gloomy ecenomic forecast. Now, we get to wait and see whether the decline carries through. Or, it chops everyone to pieces first. Probably that.
1
The very rich are more worried about losing their money than about people getting the virus and perhaps dying. The former Chairman of Goldman Sachs states that he is worried that his taxes will go up. Why did not he and the like worry before and do something to eliminate the inequality. They still could have kept their money while advocating equal fair tax programs . At least Mr Buffet who is probably richer than others is for a just tax program. I am a moderate but believe that all people should share in the great wealth of our nation, not just 1 or 2 %.
9
The coronavirus is going to cut into Wall Street profits. So, they're anxious. They're also anxious about the election, the outcome of which may well change the way business is done.
If only the reaction to the coronavirus epidemic was to fund research for a cure!
Are you not paying attention? A vaccine in beo ng worked on by many different companies.
2
@Jim
I am
Provide more companies with more resources and get it done more quickly instead of going into a panic.
This isn't the first epidemic nor will it be the last as the planet warms and all kinds of buried organisms and what nots thaw.
I wish they panicked about climate change instead.
2
It's odd isn't it that the market seems more concerned about a virus than about the collapse of American democracy?
16
@617to416 Because democracy being weak is nothing new. The virus is novel.
4
Investors or day traders? Or maybe short-sellers scurrying to cover themselves?
As an investor, I won't touch a thing, but if the market keeps going down, I may buy more. After a very good run-up in my very conservative portfolio last year, I can afford to sit with my holdings and buy when things are low, as one should.
4
The CDC estimates 29-41 million Americans have had the flu since Oct 2019 with 280k-500k hospitalizations and 16k-41k deaths. I don't see the market dropping 1000 points. What gives?
2
Anyone who has read much economic history should have seen this coming. Commodity prices were dropping and global demand has been reduced. I hope the federal government is well=prepared for the threat of the virus and the economic consequences. Given Donald Trump's history, I doubt it.
13
Perhaps, this downturn is just what we needed, the right amount of decrease in confidence to snatch us from the party fever of 'irrational exuberance'. Maybe this will be enough to stem a too-fast expansion leading to the big 20's pop heard round the world. Let us all come to our senses and think this one through.
8
The Market will rebound, always has. The US has a far bigger problem with the flu. In my state alone, 23 have died from the flu since December. Zero from coronavirus... Too bad 80% of manufacturing of goods is done in China, though.
10
While I'm sorry for the losses caused by this disease, anything that slows down economic activity is good for the environment.
10
This virus is NOT good for the environment unless you consider it an appropriate control on population growth.
2
With increased travel, a cyber-economy based on a long supply chain that wraps the world, and increased human exploitation of animals and mass industrial production of food these trans-species pandemics are to be expected. New normal.
15
No worries. Our stable genius said once we have warmer weather, this virus will be gone. Could this be Trump’s Hurricane Katrina?
25
Trump’s plan for the coming pandemic, expressed during a speech in Michigan - the coronavirus is going to work out well for America. I believe he meant that American factories would get more work, but it shows that there is no limit to the depths of his ignorance. 1) People are dying 2) Viruses do not respect borders.
34
The corona virus is a scapegoat -- the deeper unconscious fear is that Bernie will beat Trump.
5
The problem with the coronavirus is that it can't be allowed to spread like wildfire or the cost will be catastrophic. If a few hundred cases break out that means implementing regional shutdowns that are outside the experience of democratic countries and super expensive to the economy. That is why Wall Street is seeing through the relatively low numbers in other countries and seeing the potential damage of economic shutdowns to combat the virus.
3
Reading the various reports on this dangerous virus. I fear we are on the very verge of a pandemic. Even after countless Hollywood movies about dangerous viruses we are still criminally underprepared to combat it.
6
The stock market has been propped up by two things: the sugar-high from the Republican tax giveaway (corporations buying back their own stock), and the fact that there really isn't anywhere else for rich people to put their money.
Neither of these reasons suggests a strong economy. On the other hand, the high level of personal debt, assisted by low interest rates and widespread borrowing would indicate that the next crash ("correction") will be a doozy.
The only question in my mind is whether the billionaires and giant corporations will be willing to continue to prop up the stock market at least until the November election. If not, Republicans are in trouble; but if they can to maintain the stock market bubble through the election, the whole country, and indeed the whole planet is in big trouble.
28
@Andy Beckenbach
Why do you think the moneyed classes are screaming for lower interest rates? All that extra money supply is the only thing propping up stock markets. Well, that and extreme income inequality that's forcing excess savings.
8
Don't you remember? Trump assured us that Coronavirus would be good for America. You don't think he doesn't know what he is talking about, do you?
27
I sure am happy that our stable genius, the divine savior of the world, knew exactly how to prepare for this .
In May 2018, Trump ordered the NSC’s entire global health security unit shut down, calling for reassignment of Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer and dissolution of his team inside the agency.
The month before, then-White House National Security Advisor John Bolton pressured Ziemer’s DHS counterpart, Tom Bossert, to resign along with his team.
Neither the NSC nor DHS epidemic teams have been replaced.
Recently a State Department official overrode the CDC and let infected people fly back to USA in the same plane as non-infected people.
You do not need an infectious diseases specialist OR a pandemic specialist to know how wonderfully our Almighty King is protecting us with his great wisdom.
60
Any word from Tweeter? Tweeter? Bueller, Tweeter?
17
Good luck in keeping coronavirus out of the US, if that is your primary strategy. In fact, asymptomatic cases are probably already here, beyond the few known infected people who have been quarantined. Outbreaks here such as those seen in Daegu and Lombardy should surprise no one.
And even if no infected persons are here already, what do you plan to do as the virus becomes pandemic in the rest of the world? Block all flights into the country? For how long? Don't count on the virus disappearing any time soon. Screening air arrivals won't catch asymptomatic carriers.
And once coronavirus is established here. are you counting on our healthcare system to control it? Along with our wise political leaders? The State Department did not even listen to the CDC on the question of flying back infected patients from the Diamond Princess. and where to put quarantined individuals has already spawned a lawsuit in Southern California and a political quarrel in Alabama. And that with only 34 cases. How will we deal with 34,000?
Now is the time to prepare for large numbers of cases here. If it doesn't happen, so much the better. We will be fine until next time.
25
Fox Business is actually blaming the slide on the surge of Bernie Sanders. Wow, 2 caucuses and one primary and he controls the Dow?
52
@SteveH
Didn't you know that the vast majority of voters who don't even have $400 in the bank in case of emergency are totally panicking about the stock market? Sure, they have to choose among paying the rent, buying gas, or taking their meds, but they're really upset that rich people's paper net worth is down a little bit today!
24
great comment!!!!
3
Of course it is Bernie's fault because, after all, he's a socialist who wants to dismantle the entire economy, right? What nonsense from FOX THAT IS NOT NEWS but this country's Pravda.
3
I like @PreetBharara’s recent Tweet: Are you more worried about the coronavirus or the coming election?
16
@Bev George
Easy softball question. Election, and every day leading up to it.
@Bev George
He remains my hero, still.
2
For those who hope that this negative market event, if it lasts, will help push Trump out the door, be careful what you wish for.
Scoundrels and tyrants in places of power take advantage of times like these. Look at what freedoms were lost after 9/11. We got the gift of the Patriot Act, followed by the horrific Iraq war and it’s presidential justification to commit war crimes such as water boarding.
Trump could look at the virus as an opportunity to clamp down on our rights...Marshal law comes to mind. Whose to stop him? The sycophants in the Senate or the right leaning SCOTUS?
I wouldn’t count on it.
26
@Smayden
The potato blight was the excuse for letting one million Irish peasants with no economic value die of starvation and let another million be deported.
It took 150 years until we discovered that there was no famine in Ireland and Ireland's food export economy boomed from 1845-1850.
8
No problem. I wasn’t using my civil rights anyway.
Martial, not Marshal.
1
What we need is an incompetent Trump loyalist in charged of the NIH and cuts to the NIH budget to support tax cuts for the 0.1%.
8
So China is a huge pipeline for turning raw materials into products, either finished or parts of larger supply lines?
As well as a huge consumer of goods, especially dominating the market for luxury items recently? And they travel and spend bigly?
While large swathes of Asia are shutting down, and the coronoavirus is spreading through Italy?
While leading financial prognosticators cut growth from 2+% to just above 1%?
And yet the stock market, already overpriced by a zillion historic metrics, only tumbles 3%?
Well companies making n-95 face masks and other protective gear, disinfectants, and medical devices used in ICUs might have banner years. What's the projected price for the anticipated vaccine? If current trends hold, it'll cost ten times more here in unsocialized not so united states of American than it will in China, or practically anywhere else.
The irony, a global slowdown is probably already lowering the amount of CO2 we're spewing into the atmostphere. Because when climate crisis (no longer "change") truly hits home, there ain't gonna be a stock market any more.
5
The stock market is finally bursting. Blame the virus today if you wish, but ultimately if you artificially inflate stock prices with tax cut handouts, the fantasy ultimately awakens back to reality.
28
@Studio FtB Even wit ha 10% market correction, Trump and his allies will simply blame Obama.
9
@damon walton
Or hillary
Or george soros or the deep state...
1
Now that all the civil servants who knew what they were doing have been replaced with Trump loyalists, I'm sure everything will work out fine.
20
The market dropped 600 points two days before the impeachment acquittal.
Then jt bounced back after John Roberts slammed the golden gavel.
It seems we are in need of another sham trial to prop up the market manipulation.
7
“The risks are clearly skewed to the downside until the outbreak is contained,” ...
The downward turn will continue because the Coronavirus outbreak in Canada and the United States is still in its infancy! The risks, causes, how it manifests itself in the human body, contagion, who is immune or a carrier and how it spreads are all unknowns.
This is a pandemic of global concern! Despite all the best scientific minds in the world studying this disease no one has yet figured out how to defend against it or cure it! Until they do, there will be no stability.
With a leader, notorious for simply denying or ignoring a threat, this down turn in the market is the only issue likely to be noticed by this administration! If this threat is acknowledge or inspires any action, the entire nation will benefit.
7
What the financial markets fear more than anything is uncertainty. No one, including health experts, can be certain what happens next. Will it recede with warmer weather, or become a worldwide pandemic?
It's already resulting in supply chain disruptions, decreased business activity and job losses in countries around the world. The U.S. will not be immune for long.
7
Leaving out the stock market, this gives a big cautionary tale about relying on a single country for such much, and also relying on a single country that while in some ways is a modern country also retains a lot of factors that can destabilize it, including a country that has rapidly citified and created huge, densely populated cities but with a public health infrastructure that is more like a third world country.
In some ways this is pretty ironic, the rise of China was very much caused by shareholder management and Wall Street obsession with cutting costs to drive up stock price. Wall Street sees hiring people and raises as poison, they reward companies who cut jobs or send them offshore, they reward them for not giving raises (in this supposed 'boom' time according to Trump nation, 50% of people in this country saw no raise, not even the paltry 2.3% official average), and it looks like it has come back to bit them. I really hope there isn't a recession, my only succor in that (I likely would be one of the victims of it), will be hearing about mass layoffs among stock analysts and hedge fund managers and investment bankers, they literally may have dug their own grave on this one.
10
What if Xi Jinping notified the public in December when the doctors found cases of the virus? One of the doctors knew about the virus and he was then paid a visit by the police and was told to stop talking about the virus. Couple days later he received a letter from Public Security Bureau saying they will arrest him/ prosecute if he continues to talk about the virus because it is disturbing social order. The leader of China wanted to keep the virus secret from the public so it would not affect the economy or cause chaos in his country, but by doing this the inevitable happened. Xi Jinping could of taken caution earlier and the world would not be in the state it is right now. Tourist sites are losing money, stocks are plunging and people are dying all because Xi Jinping did not want a virus associated with his country.
4
@Gigi B
Do you think this might hold a lesson for our Dear Leader's insistence that climate change is "too expensive" to address?
6
The cost of ignoring climate change will be far more expensive (by every conceivable measure) than the cost of addressing it.
1
A sell-off of the stock market was bound to happen the way Trump has corruptly been treating the US Taxpayer as his own personal ATM machine, running up the national debt, subsidizing the farm industry, artificially suppressing the Fed's interest rates -- which is causing a huge corporate debt bubble -- and destroying productive trade partnerships out of pure vindictiveness. But it seems the Caronavirus will accelerate this now and we'll be utterly unprepared for it thanks to his incredibly reckless mismanagement.
341
@Brannon Perkison I hope so! We've survived downturns but we won't survive autocracy. Some lessons are best learned hard, so they don't happen again for a hundred years.
36
@Brannon Perkison Democratic Taxpayers are forced to subsidize Trump and his allies;bailout for Patriot Farmers; $50 billion. Vote out All Republicans
41
@Brannon Perkison
President Trump hasn't come close to doubling the budget deficit, or the national debt.
This is one of the myths liberals are spreading about the guy they hate.
The national debt stood at about $10.6 trillion when President Obama took office, and about $19.6 trillion when he left, for an increase of about 86%. (Remember the bailouts of the hedge funds and car companies, not to mention cash for clunkers.)
The debt is now at about $23.2 trillion, an increase of about 18.4% in three years.
Under Obama, $9 trillion was added to the debt in 8 years, for an average annual budget deficit of $1.125 trillion.
$3.6 trillion has been added since Trump came to office, including interest, for an average annual deficit of $1.2 trillion.
Considering inflation, these numbers are almost identical.
10
Nothing seems to rattle Trump, but a sharp drop in the markets will silence some of the babbling that comes out of the White House.
It would be quite ironic if the pandemic’s most notable casualty is Trump’s “booming” economy created by his great “middle class” tax cuts.
Reality strikes again: lower growth and higher deficits. That means we’ll hear that we need another tax cut.
The Trump administration is completely unprepared for a disaster that could be around the corner. Who knew?
424
@Brian
And to boot -- the Trump White House has spent the last few years cutting funding to the CDC and NIH. It would all be sweet irony if it weren't terrifying.
111
@Brian I fear that this will be used an an excuse to further isolate ourselves from the worldwide community. More travel restrictions and immigration bans are just around the corner.
11
Everything rattles Trump. The man is constantly noisy and agitated.
8
Here is an alternative view to all the crazy conspiracy theories and overly pessimistic concerns. How about the virus will be contained within the next few weeks and stock markets will turn to normal. One good that may come out of this is businesses reassessing their massive investment in China and realizing that the lower cost of doing business there is not worth the potential for disruption, and more investment in NA.
51
@Paul investors will not bring business back to the U.S. if a) the demand doesn't exist and, b) if the overhead costs cut into their profits. If it isn't China, they will always find less expensive labor pools.
48
@mrfreeze6
That is true, but if the lower cost labor pools are in places like Africa or Vietnam, you have the same problem, you are relying on basically third world countries to depend on, with all the issues there, including something like diseases and pandemics, not to mention shaky infrastructure.
10
@Paul Here is an alternative; Trump; FOX and the Trumpers exit to an Alternative Universe where their hate and greed turns to love and peace
26
The stock market is an indicator of the financial fortunes of the global financial elites, whose only concern about a pandemic appears to center on their personal wealth.
Will any of them see the connection between worker’s health and productivity?
Will any of them recognize the reality that their wealth is intertwined with their worker’s, National, and global health?
Or, will they continue to exploit the bulk of humanity for their personal financial gain and to maintain their vise on political power.
429
@Elizabeth, sounds like you’ve been taking financial cues from AOC. I’d hold on that. The market holds the savings of hard work from mom and pops and the rest of us ordinary folk that the progressives say they’re all for. I’m starting to wonder.
20
@Elizabeth
It will be your last sentence, nearly always. Greed is how we humans roll.
12
@T
Yeah, in 1945.
The market is almost completely controlled these days by professional investors - the top 10% in this country own 92% of all equity in the market, with the top 0.1% owning roughly 16%.
So it is not mom and pop, unless mom and pop manage mutual funds.
43
I think we are in another bubble economy. As such it's susceptible to profit-taking blips and soon a severe correction for a time.
I am no economist but I have seen and realized this before over the last 4+ decades that I have felt the economic ups and downs impact on my career and savings.
4
Stock markets are down everywhere but China, the source of the downturn. The global economy is one giant bubble waiting to burst. But as long as the rich want and need to continue making record profits all GDPs will continue to grow somehow as inflation and debts rise, so greed keeps it all going like usual. I wonder how long this is sustainable.
148
@Brian
Let some hot air escape from the hot balloon in the Wall Street. 3.3 % is nothing, let more hot air out, and only a stupid virus to blame !
@Brian if they are not down in China, it is probably due to some accounting frauds, trading restrictions, government investment or propaganda.
All of these have been used in the past to smooth over downturns and keep the proles mollified.
1
Workers in America have the least paid time off in the developed world. How are they going to afford to quarantine themselves. Oh, and pay all the medical bills that come as well?
No wonder the stock market is spooked.
5
How do we know it’s because of the virus and not any of the other thousand things that cause markets to drop over a weekend? We don’t! This is post-hoc ergo propter-hoc logic at its best. It seems like it should make sense. But why didn’t it drop earlier when the fear was greater? Why is it dropping now that China is reporting a slowdown in the infection rate? Why is it dropping when governments are preparing to deal with cases before they even arrive at their shores?
Nobody knows why the market does what it does.
1
Because Italy went from 2 cases to 2 hundred cases. Overnight. In Italy.
8
The Feds cannot save us this time. Get ready for the Recession 2.0. Brought to you by Republicans like the last time.
10
@albert Yes sir! And judging by some of the extremely liberal NYT's commentariat, many of them are putting out the welcome mat. Three cheers for 25% unemployment and breadlines as far as the eye can see.
I foresee another disaster movie in the making.
2
Many trumpist comments here indicate certainty that COVID19 cannot hurt S’s spawn’s re-elect. How appropriate it would be, however, for a pandemic to bring down the most vicious and vociferous pneumoniae to hit the body politic in 250 years.
5
Don't panic. The Donald (Trump) will save us all as soon as he gets back from his ego trip to India.
8
So a few billionaires become millionaires for a few weeks. Yawn.
2
Anyone remember this?
CDC to cut by 80 percent efforts to prevent global disease outbreak
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2018/02/01/cdc-to-cut-by-80-percent-efforts-to-prevent-global-disease-outbreak/
Smaller government has consequences. And we're probably getting ready to get an up-close and personal look at some of them.
13
@J Anders China has, arguably, one of the largest government bureaucracies on the planet. China has implemented a massive quarantine of half a billion people and utilized it's huge surveillance state to the max. Apart from all that, it hasn't worked out so well. Only time will tell. We should work smarter, not harder.
I voted to name the virus COFEFE-19. Would have been more descriptive.
7
It is just Malthusian economics! Pandemics come to balance out the food supply!i believe more that this might be a pre Bernie sell off! People afraid of the breaking up of the big corporations and the fear of the nationalization of investments!
1
@Feroza Jussawalla
You really think stock brokers are more scared of Bernie Sanders than the fact that American workers get no paid time off for quarantines?
5
The real scary part is this particular version of corona virus hasn't shown to be nearly as deadly as it could be. It's basically one tiny mutation away from becoming end times for entire communities and even nations.
All that mutation would take is one person walking around in a crowded international airport coughing, sneezing and generally spreading it all to everyone within walking distance. It's like multi level marketing. If you sneeze on 5 people and they sneeze on 5 people and those 5 sneeze on another 5 and so on.. Except in this case there's nobody at the top of the pyramid to rake in the mega bucks..
4
In all these comparisons to the “Spanish influenza” of 1918, remember that pandemic had nothing to do with Spain, but rather originated at a military base in Kansas in the US. Wartime communications suppressed the source story and encouraged rumors about neutral Spain as the origin. Any government can suppress information or allow misinformation to spread.
9
It's interesting to think what the economic impact would have been without 2 years of trade wars. How many companies diversified their manufacturing suppliers outside of China to mitigate tariffs? In a strange way, did Trump push companies to think about pinch points in their supply chain and lead to improvements in the overall system?
@James
Manufacturing in America has CONTRACTED, not expanded, during Trump's trade wars. All of the "supply chain improvements" happened in countries like Vietnam and India (which is currently celebrating their piece of the pie with Trump's visit.)
15
@J Anders Yes, aware of that. I didn't suggest that the manufacturing necessarily moved back to the US. I am commenting about US stock market declines, not median wages of US workers.
“Markets go up, and markets go down, but the state of the American economy is fundamentally sound”.
That’s what a president should say, because the stock market is not the economy, for one, and to prevent a market panic from becoming so great that it affects the real economy, for two.
But our doofus president has equated the economy to the stock market out of self interest and because he knows less about economics than just about anybody.
So yeah a market drop is going to panic too many people and Trump blaming Obama or whatever isn’t going to calm nerves. A hit to the real economy will follow.
15
Sure, Coronavirus is important. However, the issue of the immense plunge in value of the stock market by itself deserves all our attention. My financial knowledge is about as strong as Tracy Gabbard's presidential bid. What comes to mind is very scary to me. That is: the ending of the movie "Trading Places". Buried in the esoterica of the financial world, there are surely many highly leveraged bets that have been placed on the stock market and right now the loans are being called due. Don't be surprised if we see some major financial firms and even billionaires get wheeled out of this mess on a stretcher like the Duke brothers, Randolph and Mortimer.
5
How is that going to affect the trade talks with China.
Word from our industrial northeast technology manufacturing company -- orders off by more than 60%. Just saying...
13
Don't expect Trump to make the right decision in this crisis, he just can't make intelligent decisions. Stopping commerce will ensure a market crash but not stopping commerce will frighten his political base. It may already be too late to stop a crash.
I wouldn't stick my nose out if I worked for the NIH or Disease Center for Trump, though many there will, because it could fail and Trump would blame me. Trump has to have somebody to blame. All they have to do it stall.
If you don't see the circular nature of this problem then you have drunk too much Republican kool aid. And if you do then you're probably going to stand back and watch it happen, what choice do you have?
6
Hmmm... I wonder what Trump is more concerned about - a stock market crash or viral pandemic?
7
@Evelyn G Def. stock market crash. DumbPutin knows that would be the end of a possible 2nd term. Besides, DumbPutin already told us that, "the virus will be killed in the spring with the warm weather."
Feel better?
2
@Evelyn G Easy - market crash. A viral pandemic will kill lots of people, but a market crash could lose him the election.
2
Can we drop a nuclear bomb on the virus?
Trump’s new budget proposal includes funding cuts to the CDC, the federal agency in charge of managing pandemics like coronavirus. What could possibly go wrong with this stellar decision?
Maybe coronavirus will be the external event that finally wakes up Americans to the rank incompetence of Trump and his vile, fact-free administration.
15
Meanwhile, Trump is in India holding a campaign rally in front of 100,000 people who probably would not be allow in the U.S. to vote for him.
"Yet let's be content, and the times lament, you see the world turn'd upside down. "
6
Maybe the “stable genius” should take over our response to the Coronavirus outbreak. Since he knows more than our military generals, he probably thinks he knows more than any infectious disease doctor.
14
@Mary Beth
Or get Ben Carson on it. He is, by his own description, one of our government's top health professionals.
3
Trump stated that this virus will be over by April. He is cutting funding to the CDC. Given Trump’s expertise in bioscience everything will be hunky dory real soon.
27
A bad situation would never have thought something like this would appear ,im not a Trump fan but cant blame him for the fact that Chinese eat bats or pangolin
2
@Dale Stiffler
But he does bear the blame for cutting the CDC's infectious disease fighting budget by 80%. Now we get a look at the real consequences of smaller government.
10
I would say this is 45*’s real first test for leadership.
6
Has everyone forgotten Puerto Rico?
4
Good news. Income inequality went down today.
14
Maybe this is the Coronavirus bull market predicted by Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/30/business/economy/wilbur-ross-coronavirus-jobs.html
Bunch of geniuses in this administration, can't wait to see what they get wrong next.
12
@Michael Stevens How much money did Wilbur "Necormancer" Ross make on today's misery?
Hello Autocrat wannabes and especially the GOP,
You put on the prescribed blacked out goggles and you took that spectacular leap off that cliff when the devil offered you guaranteed and lasting power over your “enemies”, and now gravity takes over. Yes, despite your denial of all facts, the facts still determine your fate. Your Simple dreams thoroughly consumed by a complex planet, priceless.
7
Hey, Donald! Got a cure for this?!
And if you do, why didn't you use the same standard you employ against everyone else and implement it yesterday?!
6
Buy on a dip.
3
So Bernie Sanders' commanding win in Nevada has nothing to do with the dive in the markets?
@Zev The tax scam of 2017 expected a certain amount of growth which is not going to happen, the deficit is blowing up, people are in massive credit card debt, the SOCIALIST REPUBLICANS are taking our hard earned money and propping up farmers due to failed trade policies, The SOCIALIST REPUBLICANS are taking our hard earned money and giving it to corporations so they can buy back stock, 45% of baby boomers have little to no savings for retirement, we can't spend on infrastructure since corporations got a massive tax cut so there is no money, people are severely underemployed or have just stopped looking for work so don't believe the numbers you see. But Sure.....it's all Bernie's fault!
5
Uh, yeah. That’s why markets tanked in Asia.
4
In real time, we are seeing the volatility of the stock market. This past year or so it has traveled up the rungs of that fragile ladder with ominous speed. Its entity is based on illusions, sometimes delusions, especially when it places such high expectations and importance on government leaders, to wit, Mr. Trump, his Cabinet, and Republican pols in DC. This exemplifies that Wall Street represents the few while trouncing on the many. So much for the "trickle down" ideology. The only thing that trickles down is ill fortune upon us everyday Americans via the arrogant and greedy mega-wealthy.
13
Right now, the US stock market is apparently and profoundly divorced from reality.
It has been so for quite a while but this is now undeniably and unambiguously proven by the fact that despite the major and critical issues in China, which the USA business hugely depends on, there was not a real dent in DJIA until today.
The only question here is, is this the start of a slide or just a temporary hiccup in the madness?
15
Th US stock market is incredibly overvalued in comparison to every other stock market in the world. Trump has only made the bubble bigger and more fragile with his deficit spending, pressure on the Fed to lower interest rates, and trillion dollar tax cuts. When you do everything you can to stimulate an already (modestly) growing economy, what are you going to do when the market crashes or a recession comes and you are out of ammunition to fight? We can’t just declare bankruptcy like we are a Trump casino.
26
This is quite possibly the biggest stock market bubble ever. It started inflating in the early 1980’s and that's when the trend of extreme wealth inequality began. The trend of ever lower interest rates that started back then is like a Ponzi scheme. As long as the rich could keep refinancing their debts at lower and lower interest rates and borrow more and more money to cover past debts, they could fake growth that wasn’t there. The game is coming to an end, because interest rates are still near zero. The bankers and politicians will be exposed for the scheme they’ve been running all these years when we have a recession. What are they going to do to save the banks and billionaires? Negative interest rates? I bet they’re already thinking about it, because Europe is already doing it.
13
Some people feel compelled to overreact.
I sometimes think they will not be happy unless the World burns.
9
Markets go up-they go down! Anyone who is dependent on a robust stock market is leaning on a slim reed.The more alarming problem is that public health is poorly supported in many countries and no real plans are in place to limit an outbreak from becoming a pandemic.Trump has cut funding for the Centers for Disease Control and for the National Institutes of Health in his budget-this would be disastrous because these agencies are in the vanguard of developing vaccines and organizing response to deadly disease.Investing in disease prevention will make investing in the stock market a safer bet.Don’t call your stock broker-call your Representative or Senator to,demand adequate funding for public health.
24
I keep thinking of the shock doctrine Naomi Klein wrote about -- how crisis is an opportunity to be exploited by the unscrupulous. What might the lawless Trump administration do with a contagion that spreads, as now seems inevitable, to the US? Suspend elections?
After all, a widespread illness that can be effectively treated only by treating everyone does seem like a powerful argument for universal health care.
15
@Portia - The beauty of our federal system is that the federal government cannot suspend elections because it doesn’t control our elections. Our “national” Election Day is really just 50 independent concurrent state election days, each run by its respective state. Any attempt to cancel elections at the federal level could just be laughed at and ignored by the states.
3
@Jim Well, this president believes his emergency powers are limitless. Which state or federal agency do you imagine standing up to him?
3
If you don’t trade, you will not be affected by this panic.
6
Unfortunately fluctuations in a stock market will effect also those who have 401(k) plans and many other retirement plans
13
@Dr.MD
Yes. In addition, the use of automated trading routines allows crazy fluctuations to trigger sell offs, too.
But the fact happens to be that nobody knows how the pandemic will affect economic activity beyond what it has, so far. It's better to wait long enough to get more information before acting.
It looks like we are going to need a bigger Wall.
8
@freeasabird
On a different border.
Or a bigger Wall Street.
This doesn’t appear to be going away anytime soon and as it worsens there will be a call for a cure and will be curious how many anti-vaxers will give into their ignorance and finally cave when a vaccination is found.
6
Or not. It’s called selective pressure.
1
China provides most of our antibiotics. Way to alienate them Trump.
5
@terri smith - Oh that’s fine that our antibiotics come from China. As long as we can’t buy antibiotics from Canada to save money because, you know, that would be so risky!
5
@terri smith
No worries, as antibiotics have zero effect on viruses...
@Greg - Anyone who has been seriously ill, including from viral pneumonia, understands the dangers of secondary infections.
2
stock market plunges over COVID19
HHS Secretary is a pharma lobbyist
National Security has a guy in Germany "acting" as director
GOP Senate is looking around for a spine
president* is on a campaign rally in INDIA (shouldn't he be quarantined after close contact with 110,000 locals?)
this is what an utter lack of leadership looks like
38
Why isn't the U.S. Surgeon General giving daily press briefings?
38
I didn’t know that we have a government.
6
@Deb S.
The CDC is giving daily press briefings, and that's who you want giving the briefings. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention couldn't be more aptly named right now, and they've got the expertise to assimilate and interpret data in real time and get it out to the press.
3
@Deb S. Do we have an Acting Surgeon General?
4
Remember how DJT blamed Obama for, well, everything. No doubt his non-reaction to this virus is everybody’s fault but his own.
15
@hicountryho,
You are so right. Trump will complain about all the bureaucratic shortcomings with the air of an entitled King who says, how dare you not make me look good! Despite the fact that he promised he'd be so effective at running government, hiring all the best people and all that. And the amazing thing is, his base gives him a pass on everything. I think our national mental (and moral) health is a bigger problem than coronavirus, and that's saying something.
1
No worries, Wall Street. Trump your germaphobe hero says it'll all be over by spring.
9
Every time someone criticizes the Chinese Communist Party, or its Chairman-for-Life Xi, the Chinese propaganda machine and their troll minions characterize the criticism as "irresponsible".
That would be the kindest term I would use to describe a country that encourages or even tolerates the consumption of exotic wildlife. It is irresponsible of them to drive many wild species to the brink of extinction while indulging their Stone Age beliefs in the "magical" powers of rhino horn, pangolin scales, Totoaba swim bladder, parts and fluids of tigers, shark fin, etc., etc.
Why then, the surprise that the repressive, totalitarian government acts like a three-year-old trying to hide a broken vase when coronavirus wreaks havoc among the willfully-ignorant wildlife vendors and the equally culpable Chinese citizens?
2
@NorthernVirginia
Meantime here in the USA we encourage mothers to feed their babies formula, put antibiotics and growth hormone in our meat, chicken and milk.
This year China surpassed the USA in healthy life expectancy. Not total life expectancy where the gap has disappeared but in healthy life expectancy.
Speaking of stone age. We have a President who's gutting environmental regulations including protection for birds and other wild life to encourages the production of stone age energy. They don't call it fossil fuels for nothing.
2
@HL
I recommend that you visit the USA, after China’s quarantine is lifted, of course, and you will find that your beliefs are mistaken.
1
What’s Next, very stable Genius ??? Please, get your very best people ready to Work. RIGHT?
NOVEMBER.
12
I guess we won't hear a peep from Trump or Pence taking credit huh?
Maybe lay some blame on Obama, Powell or the Democrats
3
Maybe it's time for real leadership in combating this crisis. Maybe presidential leadership. Rather than compiling an enemies list and seeking political retribution, Trump should be gathering health experts and heads of governments to contain and combat this threat to the world's health and world economy. Trump said he could fix anything. So, get to work. Stop golfing, stop wintering at Mar Lago, stop seeking adulation in India. Get to work!
204
@Mike It's hilarious to think that trump would actually "gather...experts" as he thinks he is the only expert of everything in the entire world!
30
@Mike Are you talking about Trump? He lives in a world of golf and cheeseburgers with blue skies above. There is NO expert as great as himself. And he will fiddle as we burn.
20
@Michael Gross Hope springs eternal, eh? There are actually too many crises to itemize thanks to the actions of the TTeam over the past 3. Look at all they have accomplished in a mere 3 years, Michael. Can't wait to see what 4 more will bring?
5
Here is a suggestion: Maybe Trump could lower regulations and corporate tax rates and then see if it bounces back. Then he could hail himself a hero.
2
So is Trump going to take credit for this economic change? Oh silly me, I suspect not. Fox is going to have a tough time spinning this one to his credit, so will probably try to sit it out.
Trump will certainly deserve a massive amount of the blame it it does become a pandemic in the US as he has done all he can to gut the CDC and various FEMA departments needed to address it.
4
Trump has come face to face with the fact that we can't shut out the rest of the world. He also can't blame this on illegal immigrants, although he would if he could.
12
@Roark
Actually Corona Beer Stock is up today. I’m sure that will be Headlines on Fox & Trump News today.
2
The stock market is not a rationale actor. Having said that, looking at the history of both modern outbreaks and the worst in modern times, the flu outbreak of 1918, shows the market barely shrugged and recovered quickly. Any one who is in stocks for the long term, would be irrational to sell over this. Please look at the data. Does that mean this one will follow past behavior? Probably. Even if there is a significant short term dip, the market will recover. Where elementary would you put your money to obtain growth? In a savings account? Good luck with that.....
3
@Wilmington EDTsion,
But I would argue with you about one thing. The only way to make money in anything is to buy low and sell high. Many people who hold stocks "forever" forget that from time to time, selling is the right thing to do, to lock in profits. With the incredible run-up in stocks this past year, it was already a good time to do a partial sell-off. Asset allocation!
Don't worry. Trump says it'll be gone by April. The warm winds will blow it away, he says. The best words, no!?
4
Excuses Excuses! Stocks are plummeting because the US economy is a disaster in the making! Massive credit card debt, no one has savings, no one has significant retirement, people are severely underemployed, the deficit is skyrocketing, the tax plan gave corporations massive breaks so we have no money to do anything and growth isn't even close to what they needed for the tax "plan" of 2017 to work. Oh yeah.....it's the virus!
11
Will this fall make the Trump administration rethink the proposed massive budget cuts to the National Institutes of Health, the Centers for Disease Control and international organizations such as the World Health Organization? This virus could have been managed more effectively if Trump didn't pretend that he is smarter than experts.
17
FYI: Trump has cut the CDC budget and the funding for many Scientists who work at preventing pandemics! The Trump administration is ill prepared for a pandemic or even epidemic! God help us! Highly recommend “Pandemic” a documentary-series.
11
Maybe it’s not the virus. An alternative possibility, market confirmation of Bernie Sanders as President.
2
@wmferree Or maybe.....The tax scam of 2017 expected a certain amount of growth which is not going to happen, the deficit is blowing up, people are in massive credit card debt, the SOCIALIST REPUBLICANS are taking our hard earned money and propping up farmers due to failed trade policies, The SOCIALIST REPUBLICANS are taking our hard earned money and giving it to corporations so they can buy back stock, 45% of baby boomers have little to no savings for retirement, we can't spend on infrastructure since corporations got a massive tax cut so there is no money, people are severely underemployed or have just stopped looking for work so don't believe the numbers you see. But yeah boomer, maybe it's Bernie.
13
@Steve
Not a boomer here, but that’s not important. What is important is what today’s stock market drop may be telling us. Judging from the anger I sense in your comment you should maybe reconsider mine and see some good news in it.
@wm feree: So stock markets in Asia and Europe are following the Democratic primary, and have also plunged accordingly? Who knew Nevada was so prominently on the world's mind!
2
It has been said that the purpose of economic science is to make astrology appear legitimate.
That being said, the facts are that we have a $400 billion trade deficit with China, a stock market that has almost quadrupled in value since the lows of the 2008 crisis, a massive budget deficit, and the beginnings of a global pandemic.
Seems like a perfect storm that will lead to a bear market at the least, with a recession to follow.
12
@Paul Trade deficits suggest a strong economy in the US because we need the wealth to purchase more stuff. There is no correlation between strong economies with low trade deficits.
1
@Paul
Lets hope so. Its due.
2
@David The real concern is that we're seeing sluggish GDP growth even thou we're pumping up the economy with big increases in federal spending and borrowing.
1
There will be some big winners from this.
The lull in the market won't last, and those who buy at the bottom will make out like bandits.
Buy low, sell high.
5
@Peter Rasmussen you didn't pay much attention in your history classes did you? Things like pandemics and great depressions -- which inevitably follow pandemic caused disruptions -- tend to severely alter the course of national economies on a scale people can't imagine. It will not be a blip, especially with the Trump administration in charge of the national response.
20
@Ken Ballweg
Wishful thinking, and sad.
You're rooting for your country to fail.
3
@Peter Rasmussen How is fearing the highly likely repeat of the Spanish Flu and its economic impact "wishful" or "rooting" for anything. Reality doesn't care about your attitude or pseudo "patriotic" denial of it. Science is real, and the consequences of a pandemic that this administration hasn't made any realistic preparations to deal with, and can't make go away by yelling "fake news" is what's sad.
93
Communicable diseases and inward economic logic placing so called rational market behavior in its proper settings: revealing the tools of economic /
monetary analysis restraints versus the dynamics called Life ...
1
While the world and U.S. trade markets drop like a stone, it’s comforting to hear the TV market pundits, brokers and traders saying, hold em, don’t sell em, everything will shortly come back better than ever. Gee, I seem to remember that’s what they all, save one person, were saying in 2008 just before the markets crashed. Consider this, does anyone think it’s in these sellers and pitchmen interest to say, ‘Sell, stop buying, run away, we’re all doomed’. Don’t think so. It’s always hold on or buy till you die. However the drop in the markets is not due to the average investor, it’s due to the biggest of the big quantitative market movers, and you can be sure they know how to make big bucks from any market decline. Only when they start leaping out of windows should you panic as well!
8
So how is free market capitalism going to fix this problem and prevent future pandemics?
Answer: It can’t.
The solution is strong government oversight, paid for by higher taxes. Otherwise, your free market shut down.
20
@EW The free markets are very strong; managed economies are doing okay. Centrally controlled ones are struggling.
2
Be careful what you wish for: Let’s see how the US economy will do in an isolationist world (whether due to political squabbles/tariffs or the coronavirus).
I am all for more local manufacturing, agriculture etc, but that would require sacrifices (eg higher prices, environmental impact) that the US consumer may not be ready to pay.
5
There is a lot of froth in this stock market. The smart money reallocated assets into cash, etc., a long time ago.
2
@javamaster
Nah the smart money has a target allocation, stuck with it during the current market, and will continue to stick with it through whatever comes next.
1
@javamaster If it was very long ago, you've missed some huge increases. But cash may help if you can figure out when to get back in, and there's the rub for market timer, trying to get out and in at the "best" time and rarely doing better than not timing it.
2
Good grief, will you please make an effort to put this into perspective? Here is data I believe one can find on google. Over 61,000 people died last year OF THE FLU. The elderly, people with existing health issues and the very young are at risk of the new coronavirus strain. By the way, this is not THE coronavirus, it’s A coronavirus. A new strain, yes. Other strains range from the common cold to pneumonia, including the flu. The press and governments around the world make this strain sound like the plague. It isn’t. Wash your hands. Keep them away from eyes, nose and face. And sneeze and cough into the crook of your arm. I’d love to hear a qualified medical professional weigh in on this. My info comes from the CDC and WHO websites.
15
The concern is that the death rate from Covid19 is much higher than the death rate from the flu. 0.05% of people who catch the flu die. 2.3% of those who catch Covid19 die, so if Covid19 spreads like the flu, 46 times as many people may die as die from the flu. That is what the alarm is about. Once millions of people are getting Covid19 like millions of people get the flu, there may be many, many more people dying.
Also what is not known is if Covid19 will be a seasonal problem like the flu, or if will be a year round problem.
27
@Collinzes I've never heard of a doctor dying from the flu. Not saying it never happens but there have been at least 3 doctors who died in China over the last month.
Do you really think these doctors weren't following the protocols you speak of?
There is a tendency to over react to new threats. And there is also denial.
15
@Daniel @NYT Yes, the sky is falling.
The fact is that there is unreliable reporting by health agencies (and, consequently, the media who are on helping with the panic in their best "we don't have a lot of facts, but here are our conclusions" mode) what the actual death rate is because of the difficulty diagnosing Covid19/differentiating it from other seasonal illnesses with the same/similar symptoms without submitting samples for a test.
1
The U.S. Economy has been artificially held aloft by massive debt, deregulation, deficit spending and insane tax cuts. This is just a foretaste of worse to come.
Those who comfort themselves with the fact that there are around 300,000 deaths from influenza per annum ignore the fact that influenza outbreaks have never caused the lock-down of numerous cities across the globe, nor crippled the world's largest manufacturer, currently China.
The only silver lining is that a full blown crash would help the Democrats' election prospects and get rid of Trump once and for all. Significantly, he is enjoying a celebration, opening a sports stadium with another democratically elected dictator, so evidently his desire for adulation and large crowds abroad outweighs his desire to solve mounting problems at home.
38
Concerning too:
Consider that all it would take is the PURPOSEFUL release of a pathogen like this to cripple the global economy in this way. Are the peaceful nations of this world prepared for that kind of attack? Apparently not.
In our globetrotting age, we need better protocols in place to limit the spread of disease, natural or purposeful, so we don't fall like dominoes.
1
Will this be the Katrina moment where it turns out that FEMA and the CDC have been so depleted of resources and their budget so but that when and if an outbreak in the US happens it will be an uncontrolled disaster?
W Bush suffered as a result. This can seriously damage Trump and no amount of blaming illegal immigration will change that. This is mostly imported virus by travelling businessmen and tourists.
8
The drop in the markets due to the coronavirus just goes to show what little control the president has on the markets. While presidential decisions and remarks can affect the market temporarily the market has it's own momentum based on long term policy and perceptions. Trump's claim that he alone is responsible for the past bull market is just another lie to be added to the massive amount of lies he has already compiled.
16
I guess the short-sellers decided to make a fortune short-selling today! Why hadn't the market "corrected" in the last month or shorter?
@Majortrout The shorts were propping up the market and covering loss over the last month, now the whole bubble has burst.
1
Repent ye Trump voters and Hillary Trump enablers (by not running a candidate that answered the moderate progressive needs of swing state voters that elect presidents in the electoral college), the end is near.
This is just a prelude of things to come. The "good economy" is based on an insane trade war, record consumer, national,corporate, student debt that will implode.
The only question is when and how bad.
4
Hypervaluation meets reality.
6
Typical, concern about short term profits over a potential human catastrophe.
@Bailey So a newspaper is supposed to ignore a major fall in stock markets!
BTW there have been some stories about the disease. Perhaps you should look harder.
2
Don't worry, Kellyanne is crafting a response as we speak, namely, "The drop in your 401K is due to globalism and illegal migrants invading our country with the virus, and subverting the stock market."
Trump will add that, if we had supported the Kaiser in WWI, the Spanish Flu would never have broken out in 1919.
11
And this, ladies and gents, is the single most certain way Trump will be defeated in November. No, the virus is absolutely not his fault and has zero to do with him. But it’s the economy, stupid, that sinks politicians, always. Forget the rest.
10
@mlig
I wish I could be so certain. I doubt his supporters will blame him, and instead blame the coronavirus and China.
Bernie's surge also scares investors. However, Trump will not vacate the Oval Office, public health organizations will respond to the virus (admittedly Pollyannish of me), and pent up growth, based on global middle class consumers, will soon accelerate. The USA economy will not recede in second half of 2020 as Trump term of office appears likely. I added to risk in my retirement portfolio today. My bet is in.
Long-term, demographics are solid for entrants to global labor force as retirement proceeds. Social capital to armor against climate catastrophe accelerates. Capitalism will strengthen as more balanced partnership with governments solidifies. Interest rates will remain low despite some inflation.
2
@Ken Wynne And I thought I was a pollyanna!
Pent up growth? And having large numbers of retired folks is good for economic growth?
A fool and his money are soon parted.
1
As I type, the DJIA is 28,134. This is 5.7% higher than it was in January of 2018. That's an annual two year return of 2.85% per year. The long term average annual gain for the DJIA is 7%.
Remember that the next time you hear/see people pointing to the DJIA as to how well the economy is performing. The great advance in the DJIA in 2017 was prior to any tax cuts or deregulation. Since then its been meh.
6
Trump takes credit when the stock market grows but rest assured he will blame others as he did in the past when it slumps.
18
The facts are that of the 80,000 cases of corona virus in China 80% were mild, 14% were severe and 6% were critical. The mortality rate was 3.4% within Hubei but outside Hubei was only 0.7%. The World Health Organization estimates that worldwide there are 3,000,000-5,000,000 severe cases of influenza annually, with 250,000 to 500,000 deaths. The corona virus is spreading quickly but so far it represents only 2% of the affect of influenza. And outside of Hubei, 99.3% of the people who contract the virus recover. Most countries are taking extensive steps to prevent the spread. Don't pay attention to the headlines that the sky is falling. Pay attention to the facts.
5
I'm astounded and disappointed by how many people here are focused on Trump hate rather think about how terrible a humanitarian disaster this is, both for the people afflicted already, and those to come -- which is likely going to include the majority of people reading this article. "Economic slowdown" may also include interruption to and even contamination of the global food supply. We're all in this together no matter what political football team you root for.
7
@Bill Trumpers should have thought of that when they have and still are blaming Democrats for everything under the sun. Division and blame is Trump's game. He took the credit for the good. He is at fault for the bad.
15
@Bill Based on what I have read of the comments, there is not so much "trump hate" as references to such ignorant actions as cutting CDC funding and crippling the country's ability to respond rapidly to such an epidemic. These short-sighted decisions have real world consequences that we can see playing out in real time. The trump administration has set out to undercut the scientific expertise that only governments are in a position to maintain. The impacts across society are immense and this is being done in a stealth manner. That is why some readers point out how trump is causing real damage. Call it hate if you will, but the effects of ignorant actions are real.
239
It's about time the 1%'ers started worrying as their production lines slow or stop and the consumer base goes into panic mode. Yes, as China shuts down, there WILL be a last container ship. Since the outbreak was identified and labeled, the aforementioned wanted to get that last penny before the cliff arrived.
2
The traders and their programs panic regularly. It is about time they do things a bit more rationally for a change. They wake up one morning and just realize there is a World wide problem with coronavirus? What they did know this last week? Everyone else did.
7
Don't worry, Trump will build a big wall that will keep viruses out. This may launch an economic downturn that will severely hurt Trump's chances for re-election. Otherwise, I don't consider COVID-19 to be an especially deadly illness, seasonal flu is worse.
4
@CRS, DrPH
"Otherwise, I don't consider COVID-19 to be an especially deadly illness, seasonal flu is worse."
So there are 7.5 billion people on earth, and the Coronavirus from Yuhan has a mortality rate of 2%. Let's imagine that half the people in the world eventually come down with it. I'll save everyone the trouble and do the math. That means 75 million people will die.
The next thing you know, else will be claiming that more people die each year while getting out of the bathtub.
7
"The analysts predicted that global G.D.P. would slow to about 1 percent this quarter, but said they expected a strong recovery midyear."
Apparently economists know more than medical experts about the spread of the coronavirus. If supply chains are empty because manufacturing operations are stopped and people are wary about going out of the house to make non-critical purchases the economy is going to sag and keep sagging until there is a solution to the virus problem.
Medical experts absolutely don't know enough about how the coronavirus is spread or the contagious period for patients. And there is no vaccine.
Economists may wish to artificially prop up the markets by creating a reality that doesn't exist about recovery during the summer. But in reality it is a ruse to avoid a panic, not some sort of expert insight.
Since American manufacturing is in recession already, the economy is booming largely on consumer confidence. As Asian supply chains go empty, workers in all parts of the commercial economy are going to have to be temporarily laid off. Many of them are up to their eyeballs in credit card debt so there will be increasing defaults.
If this isn't the trigger for the chain reaction that leads to a recession, I don't know what is.
Those economists can dream, but they'd best put their efforts into encouraging Donald Trump to take a very visible lead in getting resources for a vaccine or a cure. Their optimistic blather isn't going to fix it.
8
Certainly hostility has increased between the US and China because of the outbreak. There will be carry over after the corona virus runs its course.
3
Some perspective is in order here:
100 people in the US die each day from the flu. The markets don't care.
The death rate in China from nCo-19 is dropping, though the rate is on the rise elsewhere, it will likely drop as well.
7
It’s a wild and sad coincidence that this virus is killing mostly vulnerable old men, just when a few powerful and “special” old men, once thought invincible by themselves and a sycophant crowd, were just about to start ww3
8
Trump is sending a bill to the Chinese payable immediately to compensate for the untimely deaths of thousands caused by their careless attention to food handling and the denial of their culpability for the virus in the first place.
2
Most likely “socialism” will buttress us more against the coming storm of COVID-19 and the future other viral illnesses than “capitalism”. The government, volunteerism, cooperation, and self sacrifice will help us weather this storm better than vulture capitalism. When Jonas Salk developed the polio vaccine, he gave it to humanity, he didn’t patent it for money and run to Wall Street for more riches. When private insurance companies quit covering coronavirus related hospitalizations - guess who will be there for them - the government of the people, by the people and for the people and we will not perish from this earth. That’s Socialism, not communism. Right Bernie? You couldn’t have explained it any better yourself, could you?
23
@Timothy Shaw, M.D. The ignorance in your post is utterly profound, and you belie a complete and total lack of understanding for both socialism and capitalism. Socialism, a system under which centralized control is required, limits cooperation by forcing bureaucratic top-down solutions. Capitalism requires that people make their own individual decisions for solutions, offering up bottom-up, grass roots ideas and allowing them to flourish according to how workable each solution is.
Salk's donation of the vaccine was profoundly capitalist in nature, not socialist in the least. Want proof? Look at Sabin. He didn't want to donate his alternative vaccine to the market patent-free. Market conditions required him to, because otherwise his oral vaccine would have been relegated to a footnote in history.
No one forced the patent out of Salk's hands. He did it of his own free will. That's something that socialism deprives people of. Socialism takes resources and hands them over to be maintained and distributed by bureaucrats least qualified to know what to do with it.
COVID-19 is an unmitigated disaster and China's socialist government's attempt to manage by saving political face is prima facie evidence as how not to manage this kind of disaster.
@Bill
China has a dictator.
One man, with no checks on power, who is not answerable to the law.
This is not socialism.
The definition of socialism is a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
Bill Barr's ideas on the power of the executive have pushed us closer to a dictatorship than at any other time in the history of this nation.
Science is what will save us, not politics, not capitalism, not an orange face carnival barker with delusions of grandeur.
6
@Bill Georgia
What you describe is Communism not Socialism. China is the top-down bureaucratic Communist country that you describe. They don’t have free elections. They are Communists, not Socialists as defined by Bernie Sanders. There is a difference, although Fox News cares to smear socialism with fascist communism to denigrate socialism. We’ll see how the real Democratic Socialist counties like Germany, Sweden, Denmark, etc. do with their nationalized healthcare systems compared to the U.S. with our multi-fragmented for-profit healthcare system when COVID hits.
2
I worry that our institutions ( CDC, NHI) will be unable to handle this since the Trump Administration has made severe funding cuts to these and other departments.
31
Neil Irwin four days ago told us that the stock market isn't too worried about the Coronavirus.
"This buoyant mood in the stock market has continued even as economic forecasters have downgraded their projections for global growth in 2020 and warned that in less likely but more grim scenarios, the world economy could face a major hit as commerce sputters in affected regions."
Things are just great, humming along nicely. All you gullible please folks just leave your money invested while we, the savvy get a head start in the gold rush.
What goes up always comes down no matter how much hot air you pump into the bubble.
53
@Memi von Gaza Go ahead buy gold coins and bullion, lots of it. When you're done go try and exchange it for a tank of gas or a boatload of groceries. See how much you lose in the process? Ten percent if you are lucky probably more like forty percent and that's only if you don't get laughed at or robbed at knife point.
Talk about fools gold...
2
@Memi von Gaza Leaving money invested in the market is exactly what Warren Buffett is doing right now and has been doing for a long time. So what is the really happening? Are you being manipulated to buy or sell? I don't know, but I trust the words of Warren Buffett when he says "American businesses, will be doing fabulously better 30 years from now or 20 years from now."
2
@AusTex You've said it very well. Ever since we've invented money, invented debt that only the poor and middling people have to pay back, we've lost the reality of what matters on this planet. As Leo points out, those of Warren Buffet's ilk can afford to let their money ride. They really don't have as much to lose as the rest of us proles, because as you've no doubt noticed, they have a million or a billion ways to avoid consequences in the money world they have created. But consequences in the other world, the world you and I live in, are coming nonetheless.
I don't have gold and I don't have a lot of money in the bank, just enough to get by without selling my soul to the company store.
I just read that Trump is going to ask Congress for more money to address the CoViD-19 problem. My suggestion: repeal the Trump’s 2017 tax cuts for the wealthy.
37
Doubt that the markets are plunging solely on the pandemic - there is also the epidemic parasite Trump who will win again.
2
Quick, there’s no time to dilly dally around...build more wall!
10
We should stop halt all flights between South Korea, Japan and the USA. South Korean and Japanese nationals should temporarily not be permitted entrance into the USA. We should quarantine all US citizens who have been in South Korea and Japan in the last month for a period of two weeks. We should do this now. It is not racist, or irrational. It is necessary. If we choose not to do this then we are putting monetary policy above our own safety. But hey, why stop now?
6
@Michael Anthony Way too late. Check the numbers in Italy and Iran. This stuff is everywhere already. Stopping all flights from everywhere is probably too late to do anything at this point.
2
Funny you never mentioned Italy where there is also an outbreak...
2
The hlobal spread and impact of the coronavirus is a reminder that humanity is undivided and so is the planet we all share in common. It's time we rise above the toxic xenophobic nativism..
24
@Prof. Jai Prakash Sharma Thank you for your wise words. Everybody else in these comments seem to be focused obsessively on the most petty aspects of US electoral politics and not paying attention to what is actually important about this crisis.
1
@Prof. Jai Prakash Sharma
Thanks Bill.
Certainly this can’t be helpful for tRump since he has no more tax breaks to dole out to his friend, the FED won’t give him negative interest rates, and the democrats field is finally getting a real front runner. He better pray for Lady Luck to stay by his side and not leave him.
1
This is probably the *only* thing right now at this devisive moment that might take Donald Trump down. It’s sad, but I think it’s entirely true. I think that the majority of Americans have zero confidence that Trump and his inept administration have the fortitude or capability to handle a major pandemic. So far Trump has been exceedingly lucky. It seems that his luck (and ours) has probably now run out.
Is this the thing that will finally bring Americans together?
16
@Brett B Possible, but if anything this crisis will strengthen the argument that the US needs stronger border protection. It's a bad argument but one that will carry resonance.
There hasn't been a pandemic like this in a hundred years. Nobody is qualified for this, don't kid yourself.
1
@Bill Border protections have nothing to do with protecting Americans from a novel virus spreading like wildfire. Not in an age of plane travel and free trade. Your comment makes no sense. Do we need to shut tourism and business travel down completely? I don’t think so.
1
The Market is in Bubble mode and has been for a long time. Anything serious will burst it. This is going to be a very painful "...correction...".
16
I guess we won't be using the DOW as an indicator of how strong the US economy is for the foreseeable future.
8
Since its founding in 1946/47 the CDC had 14 directors until January 2017. Since then, 4 directors in 3 years. Doesn't exude confidence does it?
38
People are too sensitive. A three percent reflexive reaction is not that bad. As written, J.P.Morgan predicted a 1% GDP. That's still a positive figure and they also noted a better GDP recovery later, presumably when concerns and disease subside or more predictably, people become accustomed. I'll never understand why there is so much emotion in investors.
2
A lot of trading today is done by machine algorithms. Likely as the momentum goes one way or the other, they accentuate it. Seeing that to the down side today.
As a human observer, I believe the sky is not falling. One of the few news events that come down the pike effecting markets with a somewhat predictable outcome.
Acting accordingly.
4
One more reason why U.S. companies should close their overseas factories and bring manufacturing back to the U.S. Higher prices are better than a global pandemic.
5
So, I guess the obvious question is; If Trump can take credit for a rising stock market which he had nothing to do with, will he take blame for a falling stock market which he had nothing to do with?
Maybe he can somehow blame Obama for it.
95
Since Sept 2019 the FED has injected $6.6 trillion to Wall Street to keep the bubble from popping - they are going to be busy now. And you wondered why the stock market always goes up when business and manufacturers are closing at a record pace. Looks like the FED is going to be pushing even more money to their friends on Wall Street. This is socialism for the rich, and of course never any money for Medicare for All or social programs to help workers. With over 500,000 people going bankrupt in 2019 from medical debt and more with just junk insurance many people can not see a doctor - especially for things like the flu - so this virus has a great chance to spread here.
62
@steve
Absolutely correct. We are in one the biggest, most fragile stock bubbles of all time. All to re-elect tTrump.
This "....Correction..." ,as GS phrased it last week, is going to be very, very painful.
7
There is no one in the White House tasked specifically to oversee a coordinated government-wide response in the event of a pandemic, since the post of senior director for global health security and biothreats on the national security council (NSC) was eliminated last May.
In its 2020 budget the Trump administration proposed a further 10% cut in CDC funding, equivalent to $750m. It zeroed out funding for epidemiology and laboratory capacity at state and local levels.
Because, what could possibly go wrong?
178
@Joulupukki I'm assuming they'll just put Jared Kushner in charge of it as well :/)
18
@Joulupukki
The pandemic is regrettable. The real problem is the science-denying Donald Trump and his administration.
Perhaps lives will be lost to the Coronavirus due to lack of preparedness.
Perhaps our planet will be lost by our failure to address climate change.
5
Meanwhile, the server at the House of Representatives is down. I haven't been able to reach my Congressman's website or anyone else's. Overload? Hacking? What's up?
5
@Brookhawk I just checked, it's still down. Likely overloaded. US government IT infrastructure for publicly facing websites is notoriously awful and it wouldn't take a lot of concerned citizens before it crashes.
1
With interest rates so very, very low, many people have decided that the stock market is the only game in town. This has pushed demand to ridiculous levels, and that's pushed up markets well beyond any fundamental valuation, such as discounted cash flows.
This will ensure that inequality in the US grows to record levels, and when the bubble pops - it's all due to sentiment, after all - share prices will drop between 25%-50%.
This is the cost of rates being too cheap in the race to the bottom.
I mean, China is practically putting the closed sign up, bond yields are plummeting, and STILL shares have remained sky-high?
It's bonkers.
20
There is a widely believed myth about Wall Street and the stock market that holds that it values stability and predictability in the nation’s political affairs above chaos and confusion.
In actuality, investors ordinarily favor chaos and confusion because they like the idea that there is no steady and rational hand at government's till preventing businesses from doing anything and everything they want to do..
When Trump came along, businesses and well-to-do people saw a con-artist who would give them lower taxes; was promising to spend lavishly on the military and the infrastructure; had no interest in controlling budget deficits and inflation; would cast a cold eye on the need for health and safety measures in the workplace; and would ignore the effects of climate change.
And they liked what they saw and rewarded him with political support and financial contributions; and themselves with a stock market boom.
But that was then, and this is now.
Chaos, confusion and pandemonium aren’t everything they are cracked up to be.
You can fool people into believing that we are living in a swell economy thanks to a pathological liar, but only for some of the time.
Roll on you mighty stock market collapse, the nation has its weary eyes fixed on you,
29
The CDC and the WHO would not be rolling out extraordinary measures if they were confident that this pandemic was “just like the flu” as some have suggested.
There are many unknowns right now: the morbidity and mortality rates are unclear, the incubation period is not well defined, the degree of infectivity from asymptomatic carriers is uncertain, and the responsiveness to established antivirals is unknown. We should prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
18
All presidents face unexpected crises and challenges. One of the countless things that worries me about President Trump is his ability to deal with a crisis, given that he's had a remarkably calm three years notwithstanding the many crises of his own making (like impeachment). This is on top of Mr. Trump's slashing the budget at the CDC and his appointment (or lack of appointment) of political hacks to run major agencies.
I have zero confidence that a president so given to impetuous, ill-considered, rash behavior - for going "with his gut" - and one who has alienated us from our international allies would be able to deal with Coronavirus should it morph into a pandemic in the United States.
39
@jrinsc I have no question he will use it as another excuse to curb immigration. Beyond that, and somehow blaming Obama or Hilary, I don't expect much from the White House.
7
This epidemic has been going on for weeks. Thousands of people have died. But news about the epidemic and precautions that should be taken, have been relegated in the news to being far less important than who is leading in the Democrat primaries and how the impeachment of President Trump is proceeding. I guess that only because of a huge drop stock prices and slow news about the election, has the Covid19 virus gained prominence.
2
It will be interesting to see how trump blames Hillary... or Barack... or Bernie... or Pete... or Schiff... or all of the above. After all, the buck passes right on through the White House without even slowing down.
19
@RickyDick
Seems Faux News is already blaming Bernie winning Nevada for the stock market swoon. Stay tuned, far, far worse is yet to come.
Butterflies and hurricanes (or, domestically, utter lies and lack of shame) is the adage that comes to mind in times like these. It’s truly impressive to be reminded that we are still apes living on a cooling planet, subject to the same frailties and vulnerabilities as any other organism, no matter what devices we possess.
3
2.45% is not nearly 3%. One does not round up in that manner just ge a more noticeable number.
4
@WSF
Yup. It's the old "round the 4 up because of the 5, and round the 2 up because of the new 5 (from the 4)". I saw this all of the time as a physics teacher, until I started teaching math for the first couple of weeks of the term.
It's a frighteningly common mistake.
Will Covid 19 do what politicians throughout the world have refused to do: reduce income and societal inequality? In his 2107 book, "The Great Leveler: Violence and the History of Inequality from the Stone Age to the Twenty-First Century", Stanford Professor Walter Scheidel listed lethal pandemics as one of the four ways inequality has been reduced through history (the other three: mass-mobilization warfare, transformative revolution, and state collapse) as diseases such as the plague, smallpox, and influenza undermined societal stability and devastated the working classes, thus raising wages for the remaining workers.
A few points: We don't know yet if Covid 19 will become lethal enough to cause the havoc past pandemics caused or if modern economies are better equipped to handle the instability (although China's sudden and massive drops in demand and production are not encouraging); and this would be a miserable, horrible way to reduce inequality. It would be much better to have robust public health systems that can prevent pandemics while we address inequality through reasoned political processes (granted, that's not likely today).
The world appears to have entered a stage where instability from disease and climate change (plus the political and social change) is taking hold. Another book that can help understand these processes is "The Fate of Rome: Climate, Disease, and the End of an Empire", by University of Oklahoma professor Kyle Harper.
33
I no longer subscribe to the festering cesspool that is Twitter. Has President Victory Lap weighed in on the 800 point drop in the Dow with the same gusto that he brags about its gains?
That is a rhetorical question, by the way.
57
@Michael Conroy
Trump assured us all recently that it'll all blow over by April, supposedly when the weather warms up. There, don't you feel better now?
(that's sarcasm, btw)
Trump is clearly paranoid, and justifiably so, about an epidemic here. Mostly because his 'pared down' agencies and incompetent agency heads, are ill prepared to handle it. It's still all about getting re-elected to him.
36
Welcome to the Black Swan event that will truly test world’s decade long economic expansion.
Too bad we have an orange baboon at the wheel to misguide the country through it.
72
The market, inflated by Trump's "socialism for the rich" -- the huge tax give away for billionaires - was due for what folks hoped would be a modest correction. Now, it will be deeper.
The disturbance to supply chains is huge. China will remain one of the world's two greatest economies and its Central Bank will inject huge monies into its economy, but that will not save China from the consequences of supply chain disruption, a move by U.S. and NAFTA partners plus Europe, Japan and the Republic of Korea to diversify supply chains, now concentrated in China, elsewhere.
One medical problem for us, should the pandemic take hold, is that the anti-science Trump administration cut resources for the CDC. Reportedly, he will ask Congress for more monies but that may be too little and too late.
The death rate appears relatively low but we don't know for sure, because statistics -- particularly from China -- are shaky. If the corona virus doesn't take hold in Latin America, that will be good for them and for us, significantly reducing prospects for transmission from abroad.
Too many ifs. We must get ready even though our executive branch appears out to lunch. Can major foundations and well to do states collaborate in funding necessary measures to combat the novel corona virus?
10
It will be interesting to see what trump comes up with to blame the virus on democrats and the "deep state."
13
Repent ye sinners ie Trump supporters and Hillary supporters who enabled him by not running a candidate that answered the moderate progressive needs of swing state voters.
Actually this is a prelude to the great crash coming.
The "good economy" is based on an insane trade war, massive corporate, national, consumer debt.
It will implode. The only question is when and how bad.
11
The best line of defense against the Corona Virus is intelligence. Unfortunately there is very little in supply.
12
Stock markets see the economy six months ahead. So, the worst is yet to come. Markets have a tendency to overshoot in a sell off. Opportunities to buy on sell off. Make the right decision you can make fortune.
2
@Kodali
Make the wrong decision you can lose a fortune.
4
Looks like "Business Continuity Planning" is just a phrase that is rarely used in practice but brought up after the damage is done.
Looks like President Trump is correct about that we need to bring back manufacturing back to the US including pharmaceuticals, semi-conductors, etc. that is critical for the US economy.
2
Who knew that public health is tied to economic health. I'm still waiting for the Republican plan to expand health coverage.
24
I can't imagine another scenario in which the short-sightedness of cutting federal support programs surrounding health (e.g., CDC, Obamacare) and weakening ties with global governing bodies (e.g., UN) becomes more clear.
this is a potential disaster and we are led by a political party that has only worked to undermine the very structures and systems we need to address a global crisis. unlike climate change, sickness is not something that the oligarchs can hide away and obfuscate.
60
No where is it mentioned that America gets many of the ingredients for its medicines from China. As coronavirus spreads and businesses are shut down in China, I think it's prudent to expect shortages and a disruption in this marketplace and the delivery and manufacture of our drugs.
21
Who wants to bet that When the coronavirus gets to the US Trump use it as an excuse to declare an emergency to complete his drive to have total control with a virtual police state?
48
The Dems need to get ahead of this and talk about funding cuts to the CDC and how we have 14 temporary unqualified people running our government. If you read the story about Trump angered about cruise passengers being sent back to the US you’ll see the complete break down of protocol and communication.
Our government is being run by people who have contempt for both government and expertise and it’s going to start showing.
198
@Displaced yankee And to cancel the election.
3
@Displaced yankee. He doesn’t seem to need excuses, but I’m sure he’d grab at this one too.
Has an epidemic in the past affected the economy? And if so, how severely?
4
@Adel Aali
If it has and the markets obviously bounced back because the markets were at records such a few weeks ago.
1
@Adel Aali Good question. There hasn't been anything like this in about a century. And even that's not really a comparable situation as (a) the economy was far less global, (b) main street and wall street were far less connected, and (c) a major world war was just ending, which was already making a mess of the world economy.
We're in uncharted waters. I think if you're betting long term, either you'll win or the human race will die out. If you're betting short term, think of stocking up on supplies with some of your investment money -- and don't be afraid to have cash in a brokerage account ready to buy Puts, or gold, or bitcoin.
If the virus hits hard here, will Trump declare it another Chinese hoax, like he did global warming? Or will he attempt to blame Ukraine?
This is the guy we elected to run the country. Manifestly lacking the intellectual credentials for the job.
74
Here is what must happen right now, and i mean this minute.
The United States of America must halt all inbound air traffic into this country from foreign countries. All those shiny planes are bringing in people with corona virus. We know you can have corona virus without showing symptoms, so scanning for high temperatures means very little. An immediate quarantine of the United States from the world must begin. We must airlift all Americans who are in other countries who will then go into mandatory 2 weeks of quarantine
The exasperating part of this is that nothing is being done, we seem to be going about our business as if this isn't happening, while every day and every hour brings more and more people into this country who have the corona virus, they are here, many are showing no symptoms..yet.
If we do not act now it will be too late to contain the virus will move across every part of our country, Thousand will die and millions will get sick and the economy and our way of life will change drastically.
We are playing for time now, warmer , more humid weather will slow the outbreak and a vaccine should be ready by autumn.
Now is the time to act. Shut down all air traffic. This is our last week to act, after this week we pass the point of no return.
4
@Lonnie One issue (of many) is that the US constantly imports vital materials and products. As another comment mentioned, we get many ingredients in medications from China, among other things.
In the current globalized world, halting all incoming planes is potentially ask dangerous as not doing so.
4
@Lonnie
The common flu has killed 6,600 people in America so far during the 2019-2020 flu season - which is about half way over. Coronavirus has killed 2,600 total worldwide.
Your comment is a major overreaction, and I can't help but think you are intentionally trying to sow panic.
"Thousand will die and millions will get sick and the economy and our way of life will change drastically"
How will the economy do if we just shut down all travel to the US? Hm?
Wash your hands, avoid travel to China and other infected areas. Just take normal flu precautions. We will be fine.
11
@Lonnie I think if we'd done this a few weeks ago, we'd have had a chance. I think it's probably far too late already.
That said, this is going to get bad, but it's not going to be an extinction-level event. We'll know more in a few weeks. One thing I'm increasingly convinced of is that all the numbers we're getting are suspect in all directions, we have no idea what is going on. The best set of numbers to look at is the reports on the Diamond Princess. It's not encouraging, but less than the 10% death rate in outcomes currently reported in Wuhan.
People need eye protection
4
Jimmy carter’s tenure was chaotic without the venom The takeover of the US Embassy in Tehran was seminal in his defeat, as the situation festered over time
Something like thus will doom these know nothings They will shut down trade w China close the borders and make America suffer again
They know everything
Expect the worst...then the best
It has the potential to lead to the ouster of the know nothing selfish fools in DC
3
Well now THIS is really disconcerting...
2
The World Health Organization no longer uses the classification pandemic, but the COVID-19 coronavirus outbreak remains an international emergency that is likely to spread further, a spokesman said on Monday. Let's not panic but what's going on here??
https://news.yahoo.com/says-no-longer-uses-pandemic-092736552.html
1
Let's try to think on the bright side.
Every day that the stock market collapses is another day less that America will be stuck with Trump.
63
I am not worried because a few weeks ago my President assured me that everything was under control and my President is a very stable genius. So...what me worry?
75
So much for Trump’s new America First Nationalism.
Sadly, neither global viruses nor their economic effects recognize artificial human boundaries.
We have known that at least since the hideous “Columbian Exchange” of the 16th century.
On the most important issues of human life and death, indeed of the destiny of the human community, you cannot hide in fear behind walls.
6
Whoa! Looks like billionaires need another big tax cut! That and we need to cut unnecessary and wasteful regulations that sap productivity. And as long as we are at it, let’s root out some more waste, fraud, and abuse.
9
Economic disruption in our increasingly connected world, both electronically and physically, is inevitable. The uncertainty is in determining just how that plays out in terms of rational versus versus irrational views of this pandemic, i.e., whether the world listens to the science and not the politicians. But we are living in a world dominated by fake and misleading information like never before. I think the smart money is on irrationality.
4
Sell off?! That should have started awhile ago---this is her-thinning. Watch the seasonal flip on these viruses; then the latitudinal spread in the southern hemisphere, especially Africa and South America---should be quite the extension. Do not forget influenza A and B which also has ravaged North America this past year: 26 million affected; 15,000+ deaths. Reminds me very much of the pine-bark beetle decimation globally: "changes in attitudes, changes in latitudes;" follow the weather, jet-stream, and climate. With so many 'moving parts' now, the pathologies will also increase. Fund NIH/CDC R&D and prepare now: "Chance favors the prepared mind." (Louis Pasteur)
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Every time this happens I am struck by the absurdity of our system.
Headline: stock markets fall as virus continues to spread
What does that mean? It means that the wealthy, who have compounded their wealth by gaming the lives of ordinary people, are spooked by the potential slowing of earnings because a virus is threatening to kill those ordinary people.
As they sell off their stocks, others do the same, anxious to not be the last one holding the bag.
The sell-off causes a stock market tumble; ordinary people are laid off, which in the United States means they no longer have healthcare (ironic, in the throes of a global epidemic).
Then, the wealthy swoop back in, buy up those stocks at a low price, hire back some of the workers - or more likely, hire younger workers - and the cycle repeats.
It’s a pleasure to be your commodity, m’lud. How may we serve you today?
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@Jonas Kaye Mr. Kaye nails it.
It is amazing how we watch 'the markets' -- rooting for the investor class, generally failing to notice the investor class makes it's wealth from our work & spending -- even when it is at its most miserable levels.
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@Jonas Kaye
Welcome to life under capitalism. Same as it ever was.
But I’m told by the erudite professionals here at the New York Times and it’s peer publications that doing something to rein in capitalism is divisive, radical, extreme, or just not “pragmatic.”
Kind of a shame, really.
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US public pensions are woefully underfunded despite 11 years of blockbuster investment gains. They will be crushed to insolvency if there is a sustained and significant contraction in equity prices. A downturn in the market will effect a lot more people apart from the billionaires. It will tear apart municipal finances in almost every city, county, and state in the country.
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Timely reminder that Trump cut our pandemic prevention budget as part of his tax cut for the rich.
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@Ted B No worries Trump also advised us the virus would be gone by April.
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Maybe, just maybe, if our stock markets fall, Donald Trump and his administration will pay some attention to possible Coronavirus outbreaks here in America and become proactive. The last I heard, Trump thinks if we just wait for April and warmer weather the virus will disappear on its own. It is such a treat to live in Trump's America.
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With the market making historic gains in recent months...and years, if you follow Warren Buffet's advice you have been selling rather than buying. (Especially in your retirements accounts where there are no tax consequences until you retire and start taking that money. ) Now if there's a huge decline in the market, one starts to buy back shares...cheaply.
They say 'you can't time the market'. But they also say 'buy low, sell high'. Every time the market hits an historic high, take 20% off the top of your funds. Then in the crash you have cash to buy low. Duh.
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@Hal Yeah..."you can't time the market," but the market is ALL about timing.
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@JD For the average investor like myself, timing in the market means knowing when the market is high, which it has been recently. There's no mystery there. I don't trade in nanosecond variations in value.
I'm sure WHO will come out with the CCP and praise how China is doing so much for the world and they are the most transparent country on earth to settle markets. Meanwhile in reality no one is buying their nonsense, and it's time for them to get real since China's government and their handling is leading to a global economic slowdown and literally putting people's lives at risk.
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Stocks aren't plummeting because of fears over the effects of coronavirus - they are plummeting because of fears over the fears of the effects of coronavirus. Fear itself is a virus or, as FDR famously said in his 1933 inaugural address, we have nothing to fear but fear itself.
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Eh, a shortage of medicine and medical equipment that comes largely from China and India is a pretty well founded fear.
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Panic selling is not new and as I said panic in general is unproductive. Certainly Corona virus COVID-19 has spread from Wuhan, China to South Korea in the far east Asia to Iran in the middle east to the eastern end to the boot of Europe, Italy. School closings and cancellation of the Venice carnival festivals is a beginning of Italy's response to deal with the virus. Although Italy is one of the densely populated countries in Europe, it also has a capacity to quickly restrict the spread. I am confident that every country will contribute to the global effort to contain and kill the virus before it hits another neighboring continent, Africa which is just south of Europe.
U.S.markets other than the travel sector and imports from China sector, should remain insulated from Coronavirus concerns as there are many bright spots for golden opportunities in the world right now. There could be increased trade between the fifth largest economy, India and the largest economy, USA with the visit of Trump to India. China will be buying essential goods and foods for which there is a short supply. It cannot eat gold or cash. Due to the market being down last week, many stocks are at bargain prices.
When the going gets tough the tough get going. The US economy has nothing to fear but fear and panic itself. To all Americans my advice will be travel less overseas. I myself I am staying put where I have access to the best on demand medical care in the world. Last May I was in the far east.
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"Leadership," such as it is in DC, has been whistling past the graveyard on this issue in a way much similar to Chinese leadership at the onset of the epidemic. We see where that got them. This country needs some folks to step into the breach with some guidance and reassurance. Some "How-to" info should be disseminated across multiple platforms. Colleges and universities, jails and nursing homes and other places of congregate living should start restricting visitors and screening immediately.
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“The worse the virus outbreak, the better the chance the central bank will release” more money into the financial system, which would tend to support share prices, said Hao Hong, the research director for the international operations of China’s Bank of Communications”
People are dying and getting sick all over the world and no one knows how far this virus will spread and yet as usual it’s all about self preservation for investors, Wall Street and the Global markets. Ironically, they are not reacting to the dangers of the virus; they are reacting to their bottom line.
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But somehow $21 TRILLION in debt isn't a crisis that threatens the global economy.
I guess there's nothing to see here when all that money is being stuffed into the pockets of kleptocrats.
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It would appear that coronavirus clusters around the world are being under-reported. There are thousands and thousands of Chinese nationals working in Africa on infrastructure, etc., yet no cases reported. Doesn't seem possible, unless the Chinese govt. is not testing its people abroad. Same for Sri Lanka and Burma; many thousands of Chinese workers.
In writing this, I am not trying to say there's anything wrong with having Chinese workers around the world if the receiving nations want them. But I think we need to know if the workers are being tested for the virus and if nations with limited health infrastructures are experiencing the same outbreaks as in Italy, S. Korea, etc -- but without any reporting. If so, then yes we have a pandemic...
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The DOW is set to open 830 points lower, and that is mind blowing. Clearly the world needs to seriously address this virus. With the outbreak in Italy that means it's in Europe. This is very important.
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@Jim Sande - That only about 3%, when the market is 30% overvalued on a historical basis.
Yes, some people will get the virus, but it's not the end of the world.
There is no such thing as climate change, only the invisible hand at work.
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@Mikhail - yeah, maybe. But whose hand is it? That’s where the disagreement lies.
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I’ve been waiting for this news! I just spoke to my Chinese friend in Shanghai and they’re STILL living fairly as on lockdown, even in relatively unaffected Shanghai. And my Italian friend in Veneto, Italy, told me people were just horrified and staying home. How can the economy move along this way? Will we be next here in NYC? Heaven spare us but we are going to face a severe economic shock sooner rather than later. If there’s a small silver lining it’s that Trump will take the hit as Bush and the GOO did in 2008, fairly or not. Regardless, I say brace yourselves, ladies and gentlemen.
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@ManhattanWilliam There is some rationale to Trump taking the hit. The majority of viral pandemics begin with mutations in the vast number of small Chinese farms in which multiple species and humans are crowded together. US pork and other imports were rapidly replacing Chinese domestic meat supplies, and domestic Chinese production had dropped 50%. The trade war cut a billion people off from their pork and small-farm production in China skyrocketed; a few months later the virus appeared.
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Let’s face the facts – Coronavirus/COVID has become a worldwide pandemic.
All the signs are in place for a global economic downturn triggered by the Coronavirus pandemic. Meanwhile the Stock Market is near record highs. It’s time to sell the Market short.
The crash may not happen this month, but it will come soon.
Such a crash will have major political implications. The high Stock Market seems to be Trump’s primary indicator of economic success.
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Please direct me to the White House "health expert" that will clarify the status of the virus as it relates to Americans.
What is the guidance from the CDC?
If ever there was a time for truth and reassuring comments from our leader, it is now. But perhaps the WH is too busy campaining to govern and lead.
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They've never governed or led, so I'm not sure why you'd expect that now.
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@Bob Bruce Anderson If previous pandemics are any guide, the mortality rate will drop within a few months as people carrying less lethal strains will spread it more rapidly than those carrying lethal strains. Stay home if you are sick.
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@Bob Bruce Anderson - No experts left in the White House. Trump fired them all because they wouldn’t say Covid-19 was fake news.
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"The Chinese government has told fund managers that if they sell shares, they must buy a slightly greater number of shares,"
Good way to prevent rats from leaving a sinking ship. Now they, and we need to resolve the core issue nd develop/distribute medicatios and procedures to curb the disease or the ship will continue to sink.
9
There is more reporting on the effects on the stock market than on actual preparedness to deal with an outbreak in the United States. It gives one the impression that profits matter more than human health. Could that be?
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I believe that this is an article by business reporters, intended for publication in the newspaper’s Business section. The NYT, in other articles over the last month or so, has had no shortage of reporting on the spread and human consequences of the disease—indeed, it’s had multiple articles every day on this!
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@a reader
How many articles have you seen about preparedness in the United States? Lots of articles about what is happening abroad, but none that I have seen what what the US is doing to get ready.
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The billionaires,that own all of the newspapers, all have world class physicians, on hand 24/7.
Why would they be interested in healthcare? They are just fine.
4
The stock market has a purpose, in that when it dips it gets people to act. From the very beginning this crises has been mismanaged in shocking fashion, with mistake after mistake made. It is time to get serious about a serious problem and a stock market crash may be just the thing that wakes up the ruling elite. A virus czar must be appointed right now, and if we have to shut down air travel from every country in the world for a 2 weeks to get this thing contained in the USA , that is just what we have to do.
If it is obvious to me that people are getting around our Travel ban with China by flying to countries with no travel band then flying to the united states from there. How else did 24 people in westchester county have to be quarantined 3 week into our own travel ban with China.
stop the spread right now or suffer the consequences. All the wiggle room is gone, we can afford no more mistakes. Now is the time for action.
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@Lonnie What actions would you recommend?
The human toll of a pandemic will depend on the speed with which researchers come up with a vaccine, but the economic toll will be longer lasting. It will not be quick or easy to restore the Chinese supply chains on which so much of the global economy depends. And perhaps Trump the Tariff Man will learn that the American and Chinese economies are interdependent, whether he likes it or not. Hurt one and you hurt both.
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This reads so much like the beginning of a dystopian novel. Mysterious virus halting international travel and the biggest economy possibly on the brink. Has the end begun?
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@NYLAkid
This is a bit of an alarmist comment not supported by the evidence.
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@NYLAkid Or, Poe's "The Masque of the Red Death."
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This is further evidence that we are becoming a single world economy, whether or not some people believe we can exist all on our own as a nation apart from the rest.
China gets a cold and everyone sneezes.
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COVID-19 is creating a global crisis not only in loss of human life and widespread fear, but also financial markets. It just goes to show no matter how hard forecasters try to come up with predictions for business and policy programs, it doesn't take much for an unforeseen event to burst on the scene and change the global dynamic.
I understand scientists are close to developing a vaccine, but it will still take a year for testing and ramp up to full production.
I see a bit of a parallel between 9/11/and war on terror with the explosion of the new corona virus. The rock just hit the pond, and the ripples will take months, if not a year or two to sort out.
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Hardly any reassurance but I've been reading the history of wars in the Middle East, going way way back. The ebb and flow of power often as not stemmed from a country/tribe/faction /army being assaulted by a pandemic- cholera, anthrax, influenza, plague... These blights ran their course, inexplicably coming to a halt. Mankind hobbled on, somehow regaining health and vitality. Nature's cull.
19
The virus can not actually be contained, it will, over time, spread to every corner of the world. The only thing that can be done is to slow down its spread, so that those who are ill can be treated, and thus the total number of deaths minimized. In part, this is because infected individuals do not display symptoms at the same point that they can infect others. Perhaps, perhaps, some individuals with the disease never show symptoms. The only development that could dramatically change this scenario is the development of an effective vaccine, manufactured in quantities of billions of doses. Some see this as a wake-up call to an even worse future pandemic. Perhaps, but at this point in time, the notion of an anti-viral that is broad spectrum against the enormous variety of virus biology is beyond our conception. Even an anti-viral against the common cold is beyond us, and those viruses have much in common.
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@Bruce Maier
Assuming all this is true:
And, yet, you will still be far more likely to get hit by a car crossing the street.
10
Hopefully this will serve as a grim reality check to all the Trump supporters who are misguided in their belief that he and he alone is responsible for the strong economy and stock market performance.
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@Jpat I'm not quite sure how this shows that people are misguided. It shows that a virus that emanates from China is hurting the world economy.
The way China has tried to manipulate its market, and the world at large, is a much bigger story.
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@Jpat
Don't worry, Bernard to the rescue:
Note to Bernie: Don't praise Fidel, don't praise Lenin, and don't highlight that you honeymooned in the Soviet Union (a/k/a, "the Worker's Paradise"), three years before its collapse. If you do, the losses by Michael Dukakis and George McGovern will pale in comparison to how you'll do in the general election.
3
"The Chinese government has told fund managers that if they sell shares, they must buy a slightly greater number of shares, Mr. Hong said."
That is a pretty impressive fake stock market you've got there, China.
What a totalitarian scam.
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@Socrates
For the past two decades the Chinese "economy" has been propped up by more debt and slight of hand, not to mention unsustainable environmental degradation mass forced labor.
It's going to unwind in a spectacular fashion.
Then we will all stand around slack jawed wondering how we put so many of our eggs in the poorly constructed and contaminated basket.
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@Socrates: and BOOM! go the global markets. Three, two, one ...
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@Socrates kind of like ours
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