“I knew the right thing would be to report it,” Ms. Laursen said, “but somehow I felt that I would come out the loser.”
Doesn't this jut say it all.
Another wealthy, narcissistic, sociopathic, predator. Amazing how people keep falling prey, on whatever level, in whatever way, to a man with money. Along with shooter drills, schools should teach kids how to protect themselves from predators and what to do if they are victimized.
200
When you think about it, it does make sense that Jeffrey Epstein was probably the tip of the iceberg. Lots of men in the world like Nygard and Epstein.
83
@ Oliver
*There are lots of men in the world just like Nygard and Epstein.
17
In wealthy white countries this is known as foreign aid : the average entitled male shows up in an office setting for around twenty unproductive hours/week, retires in his mid-fifties to one of many islands full of poor girls, and flushes his state pension down the toilet.
Trickle-down economics 101.
21
If this be "news fit to print" what must the rest be like?
19
The allegations about Nygard are nothing new. These rumours have gone on for 25 years here in Winnipeg where part of Nygard International is based. When I was young, my girlfriends had the distinct displeasure of working with him directly. Inappropriate and creepy behaviour. No one in Canada surprised. He’s suing the CBC for doing a documentary on his exploitation of young women. Guy’s a creep.
148
I wonder what millionaire and billionaire women do with their money? Seems like a lot of rich men use it to sexually abuse young women.
98
@terri smith Ask Bernie a Sanders. He’s a millionaire. There are millions of people who are millionaires.
4
True or not, in this particular case, people of wealth regularly use poorer islands and countries as their sexual playgrounds. Exploiting people because their wealth, and often white privilege, allows them to.
102
Heck even poor ones do it — look at 90 day fiancé! But they just can’t get away with this level of exploitation without wealth.
26
Well the secret lives of the very rich, is very disgusting and should remain secret.
People are starving on that island and we have these two white men who are the symbols of greed arrogance exploiting people in plain sight.
43
@Tony
Rape, assault and sex with underage children should NOT remain secret, it needs to be exposed and prosecuted before more are victimized.
This article is yet another example how greed corrupts and buys "justice".
122
I was propositioned and attacked repeatedly as a young woman in my 20s, poor and trying to make connections, and I spent too much time running out of elevators where older men tried assaulting me, or I was being propositioned in strange places where boyfriends with connections took me, like backstage at concerts. What happened with Nygård and Epstein doesn’t surprise me, these men who refer to human beings they want sex from as “toilets” and “bagels”. I was forced out of employment by quitting or because I reported to HR. Some of the men owned the companies, but many just worked there and had no worry of losing their careers.
Young women are not viewed as human by many, many men, and young women will continue to be prey to men until those men, wealthy or not, are held accountable by law and lose what they take from these young women: power and the ability to make their own money. There have to be examples made, but our society can’t seem to stomach making examples of them. Prince Andrew, Nygård and countless others have to be arrested and professionals who work with sexual abuse survivors need to be listened to.
Too many commenters in the NY Times clearly don’t know how believable many of these women are according to professionals who work in human trafficking and psychology. Many see mutual agreement where there is predation. There are tried and true tools, but laws need to be updated to match the reality of sex abuse and human trafficking. PTSD still lives with me.
82
As a global community, we need to do better In protecting vulnerable people of all ages.
25
There's a lot of coverage about the sexual assault allegations but there is almost no relevant backstory on the property dispute. What's at stake in the property dispute that has led to all of this?
It would seem these guys can afford to build separate driveways rather than arguing / litigating over the one they share.
9
Having just returned from the Bahamas last week, I find this story extremely distressing.
The Bahamanian people are warm, inviting and very kind. I can't imagine these young women having their futures destroyed because they were bribed to participate in a petty squabble between two billionaires who can't stand to have even the slightest faux paux go without penalty.
This is disgusting. Using people like this should be tantamount to a criminal conspiracy and should be prosecuted.
Lying to the police, lying about crimes not committed/not committed, put them both on trial and let the courts figure it out with actual evidence.
10
I so hope we can reverse global warming, but if the ocean gobbled up both of these estates it wouldn't be such a horrible thing.
27
I was a young photo assistant back in the early 90's living in Toronto having just graduated photo school. I was hired by a photographer to work on a fashion shoot in the Bahamas. It was the first time I would get to travel for my job and the ideas of models and the beach sounded pretty good to a guy in his early 20's. When we arrived at Lyford Cay I instantly thought the place was strange. There was a bust of Peter Nygard in the waiting area as well as a video of him on Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous on a loop. There always seemed to be young beautiful women walking around in bikinis that were not part of our shoot and the staff somehow felt like slaves. I can't say anyone was treated badly or there was any inappropriate behavior going on but the place wreaked of creepyness. It seemed that he was flying in young women from Miami all the time. I don't ever remember meeting Peter Nygard and we were treated very well. Generally speaking the place felt like James Bond's nemesis might live. When we flew home we joked that if they were not happy with us the would simply blow up the plane we were on. I am 100% not surprised at this story, I wonder why it took so long to come out. I have on many occasions mentioned to friends how strange my time was there. These days I document human trafficking and prostituted women. Hmm, how about that?
99
Nygard exemplifies a point theologians often make about sin: If people don't center their lives around God, they tend to revere either power, pleasure, money or their own personal glory. And a note to atheists and agnostics: This is not to say that non-believers cannot be good people, especially if they have built their lives around an ethical and humane framework. (One can endlessly debate the true source of such frameworks, but that's a discussion for another day.) The point is that Nygard's reported actions are very telling.
23
Perhaps one good thing about global warming and waters rising is that it could wash these ridiculous estates away.
27
If I have ever seen a dwelling that was a perfect reflection of the soul of its owner, it’s Mr. Nygard’s monstrous “carbuncle” festering in the Bahamas.
45
Money does not equal taste. He looks as if he is wearing old Cher clothing circa 1975.
47
My god, if this doesn’t stand as the perfect argument against the accumulation of hoarding wealth, I don’t know what does. And the seemingly inevitable ingredient, the collection, objectification and abuse of other human beings, in this case young and vulnerable women- who is ready to eat the rich? God knows I am.
100
How is it possible that someone with Nygard’s decorating taste is a major designer? The pix of his place make Vegas seem classy.
81
Nygard is a revolting predator and the designer of incredobly terrible fashions. How on earth did he get wealthy enough to indulge his vicious criminality? This story is a perfect argument against the accumulation of excessive wealth.
76
This raunchy story is likely fodder for a tabloid publication, but worthy of publication on the first page, above the fold National Edition of the New York Times?
In my opinion, no. More appropriate for the back of a Styles section. If the story even warranted publication, that is.
23
@Mary Rae Fouts - You write that this story belongs in the "Styles" section, not on the front page.
Really???
This is a story of an over-privileged, over-entitled, over-monied man preying on young girls and possibly raping them. How is that a story about "style"?
Dear me.
364
Fully agree
13
I agree. Why not an expose of say the 2 biggest opiate/drug dealers in NYC?
1
Epstein was not unique by any stretch.
95
The legal systems in Canada and the US were complicit in this man silencing his accusers. How do you prevent the wealthy from using the justice system as an instrument of intimidation?
62
Billionaires should not exist. They need to realize that without the rest of us, they're nothing. They depend on us all to make their money. Therefore a fair redistribution system is needed. A graduated tax that goes higher as income rises is fair to all concerned.
I strongly suggest that every America read the following comment from Baron Acton in 1877 to The Bishop of London, Mandell Creighton and always keep it in mind:
"I cannot accept your canon that we are to judge Pope and King unlike other men, with a favourable presumption that they did no wrong. If there is any presumption it is the other way, against holders of power, increasing as the power increases. Historic responsibility has to make up for the want of legal responsibility. Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority: still more when you superadd the tendency or the certainty of corruption by authority. There is no worse heresy than that the office sanctifies the holder of it."
The same goes for Billionaires and the power they wield. Think about it.
59
@HoodooVoodooBlood
It is not billionaires holding us back is those pesky poor people. They don't work and earn money. They don't pay taxes but are always first in the "welfare line".
"Poor people should not exist" About as uninformed and discriminatory as what you said!
6
Well. This story is so Bahamian American, about half timers and their calypso style power grab. Nygard looks as bad as Epstein, but his victims were young local women of color. It seems either idiot could go elsewhere...what a monumental waste. Remember: the Bahamas were a landing zone for Pirates back in their day. And their british sense of morals are embellished with poverty. That said, Lyford Cay is a very exclusive resort generally catering to the GOP. Perhaps, Nygard not really a great fit to begin with. Will he ever see justice served to him? Not so likely.
14
so as it turns out the billionaires actually are miserable? Good for them.
16
Just washed my hands six times. Ick.
30
Leaving aside the extraordinarily disturbing sexual abuse allegations, and based on the accompanying photo of Nygard, how on earth did this guy ever become a “fashion” executive? He is dressed like some sort of addled Peter Pan.
74
@JM
Ha! That was my first question too but never underestimate the allure of cheap clothing (look at the awful LulaRoe...never mind don't assault your eyes).
Nygard is a sleazy businessman with questionable ethics, fashion sense is the least of his worries.
29
So Epstein got his idea from another sick ticket?
17
Reminds me of Kurtz, in Heart of Darkness.
21
How will a 10 year, 14 or 16 year old girl throw herself at an old man like him, is beyond me. It is the most disgusting ridiculous lie. These are young girls, just kids. He deserves a severe jail sentence and I hope he rots there.
97
The article would have readers believe the Bahamas is poor, when in fact it is the richest country in the Caribbean and the 14th richest in the Western Hemisphere, with a per capita avg. income of $21k.
While it isn’t Switzerland, it isn’t Haiti either.
10
Obviously you've little to no actual contact with the "natives" except to be served. The income of the billionaire colonialists, averaged out to impoverished Bahamians is nothing more than math for the credulous. Try excluding all the rich white settlers and see the actual poverty of Bahamians.
66
@AR
I’ve lived on Eluethera since 1992...and you disputed none of my facts, but only blamed ‘rich white settlers’ for poverty in the Bahamas.
2
@AR
Obviously, you have never visited a poor country. There is a reason you do not see widespread malnutrition, famine, political upheaval or racial strife in the Bahamas...and some of those ‘white settlers’ aren’t rich, but are descendants of loyalists to King George that came to the Bahamas in the 18th century.
4
I was fortunate enough to grow up snorkeling along and exploring the pristine reefs and empty palmetto scrub that comprised what is now "Nygard Cay" when my grandparents owned the Point House (pre-Bacon) during the 70s and early 80s. Once Nygard bought the land next door, things changed quickly: nonstop construction, constant parties, young girls (not much older than I was at the time) coming and going at all hours...he was unapologetically tasteless and brutal to my grandmother, often going out of his way to offend her with raunchy, public displays of sexually explicit behavior. Saddest of all was the way the truckloads of sediment that Nygard trucked in, along with the constant development on his property, completely silted over and killed the coral reefs that fringed both sides of the point. I'm guessing his party invites and bribes helped the Bahamian officials to not notice the wholesale degradation that was happening both above and below the water at Nygard Cay...
He really is a monster. Maybe he will get a Medal of Freedom someday soon from our own Predator-in-Chief.
491
@CMcG
Why would a Canadian citizen be awarded a distinction reserved for Americans that have contributed to charity, culture, art or science?
8
@J House Because he's as deserving as Rush Limbaugh?
107
@J House why would rush limbaugh?
46
Nyard's lion picture itself is a severe symptom of something... His style reminded me Marshall Applewhite.
11
Fortunately climate change and rising seas will settle these petty tycoon issues. See, it is good for something after all. Fools and their money. . . .
14
Money can’t buy happiness but it sure seems to bring a lot of misery to those mortals who get mixed up in these fantasy worlds that the mega rich have created.
The moral of the old story is Gatsby plays the part better than most but it’s their world not his. Or hers in the recent stories.
9
After reading this, excuse me, but I must go and take a shower.
33
False equivalency.
On the one hand, we've got Jeffrey Epstein Part 2.
On the other hand, we've got someone who's jeopardized the first guy's prosecution by paying potential witnesses and thereby harming their credibility.
The false-equivalency frame has resulted in a "pox on both your houses" response, and a collective shrug of apathy. That's not what we want in the face of Epstein behavior, particularly in the Bahamas.
29
@Bill Money in the wrong hands makes people crazy.
12
@Bill I wonder how many good billionaires are out there? Most of them seem to have this underlying hideous life.
17
The level of exploitation of vulnerable women here is unparalleled. I'm left feeling enraged and powerless. Again.
68
Monsters, one just hugely worse than the other.
35
This story is a compelling argument to return to Eisenhower era tax rates .
94
They deserve each other as neighbors
25
For some strange reason, many who comment on this article use “they” and go on to criticize both men equally for their wealth, pettiness, etc.
This is a logical fallacy.
Whatever one may think of Bacon’s methods, he’s the first one to be able to take Nygard to the limit, with his financial resources and moral fortitude.
Nygard has been accused of wrongdoing by so many women in the past... Not only by those mentioned in the article. His day of reckoning is long overdue. He’s even been called Canada’s Epstein by some.
184
Well, at least we can point to one benefit of future sea level rise.
64
Haha. Well said.
8
I didn't realize my subscription to the NY Times included a subscription to the National Enquirer.
15
@Country Life - You don't think it's important that a fashion executive is using his privilege and his much-too-large fortune to hunt down and possibly rape young girls? You don't think it's something the entire world needs to know about? You don't think exposure in the NYT will contribute to putting pressure on the powers-that-be to get this alleged predator behind bars? Or is it that the suffering of his young female victims just doesn't count--except to titillate readers of the National Enquirer? Pray do tell.
172
The differences, the NYT is trying to document things and validate its sources. I worked overseas and I saw this mixture of libido, money, lack of restraints and impoverished girls.
54
@Country Life I am glad I read this. I will never buy another garment from his store. Hopefully his final time on earth will be spent behind bars.
26
If Lord Acton’s famous quip:
‘Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely’
is taken seriously, then the NYT has simply reported on an obvious truism. And, our curiosity (yes, I read it too) is simply voyeurism that is easily fed. NYT, please put this stuff on pg 34.
7
These guys are prime examples why the rich should be taxed at 90%. People like this don't deserve to keep that much money for themselves...
161
The world doesn't need "fashion executives". It doesn't need fashion.
34
@Jonathan Katz and I hope women dont buy the kind of clothes these executives make. They are simply not practical and not what women want.
9
@Dean Actually, some of the Nygard clothing lines (e.g., TanJay) are much more practical than they are fashionable, and reasonably priced. I am definitely not defending Peter Nygard, but it is very sad to see that he has gone from a self-made Canadian immigrant success story to this.
3
Irony: in the next world, they may end up as roommates.
6
Nice cover for Bacon to be seen as an environmentalist, (although of course his hypocrisy on that point cannot compare to Nygards apparent predatory criminality.) Bacon turned the theoretically 'preserved' Cow Neck in Southampton, with it's gorgeous and unique Southampton wetlands and incredibly unusual beech forests, into - take a guess - you got it - golf links and polo, uses apparently within his Nature Conservancy 'preservation guidelines'. Plus he built a huge house right down by the shore line, without much care to fragile wetlands in that previously long-preserved ecosystem.. And his Colorado estate is for hunting mountain lions - the only problem with that is you can't tell male mountain lions from female, so when you hunt them, you may be killing a whole litter of suddenly motherless kittens.. Environmentalist my foot.. I hardly think so. Although of course the evil that Bacon does is not comparable to the Nygard accusations, but somehow one feels the death grip they have on each other is so deserved.
312
@grace thorsen - Bacon also acquired the premium public garden in North Carolina, then closed it to the public. Neither of these men are admirable.
86
@Paul Adams Orton plantation was never a public garden as such. It was opened to the public by the family that owned and operated it as a business. It's not as if Bacon bought a public park and closed it to the public.
7
Put Nygard on Trump's pardon list, he qualifies.
40
That guy's picture is very, very weird.
46
It is very disturbing that Nygard is not in jail despite the countless allegations of rape against him. When will the American justice system finally reform so that we can imprison the rapists and pedophiles?
63
@She Persisted
He is neither an American citizen nor living in the US.
7
What’s with these freaky rich guys? Was This one a pal of Epstein? Or competitor? And some how it makes Trump come to mind.
62
Bernie's claims about the 'Billionaire Class' comes true in spades. First Bloomberg is outed as a serial misogynist who uses his wealth to buy legal cover and to pay off women he had his way with. Now deviant Nygard and Bacon show themselves corrupted with their obscene wealth. Maybe these stories will help moderates clear their minds about concerns with putting a liberal into the White House. It's been moderates and conservatives that have brought us to where we are. Time for change and an erasure of obscene wealth.
31
@Ed Smith
Bloomberg isn’t a misogynist. This is just Desperate spin from a woman who will soon have to drop out. It was embarrassing to listen to.
8
So Bloomberg and Trump have something in common.
7
Nygård was born in Finland before his parents emigrated to Canada. The major finnish newspaper Helsingin Sanomat has just published two pieces regarding two female celebrities here, Ms. Linda Lampenius and Ms. Katariina Souri. Ms. Souri tells she was strongly coerced to have sex with Mr. Nygård in his resort Nygård Cay in the 80s (she was able to resist), and that it was the most disgusting experience in her life. Ms. Souri has told about her experience in an interview already in 1994.
Ms. Lampenius, once a talented classical violinist, tells thar her finances and health got ruined in a legal battle against Mr. Nygård's lawyers in the 90s. Ms. Lampenius had warned other women against attending Mr. Nygårds parties, in some newspaper pieces, based on what she had seen in his shadow-Oscar gala. Mr. Nygård filed a libel suit for $10M, and required a public apology, which he received after Ms. Lampenius had spent $500k in legal fees and could not afford more.
You may be able to read the stories using Google Translator from the newspaper website www.hs.fi .
284
Dang. I remember Linda Lampenius from my Swedish childhood. Beautiful and talented. How sad to read this.
42
@Reg - rich people no longer beat up their poorer enemies, they simply hire lawyers (a profession which is not always very admirable).
34
Demented billionaires! A pox on both houses.
57
Lies, lies and more lies!
Where is the truth?
You might think that many of them attented Trump University and majored in Lying 101.
32
Anyone who calls women, or their body parts, “toilets” has a special place in hell.
And why is DILLARDS continuing to purchase from his company?
436
@Concerned in exactly! boycott these stores.
45
America founded itself on a rejection of indentured servitude and inherited wealth. We once were for equality because we knew the ramifications of a country based on a monarchy.
We are now an Oligarchy, a country where loose restrictions on tax and regulations has created a corporate monarchy. When Trump raised his “show-and-tell” card on national television to show that the four trillion dollar companies in the country spelled “MAGA” it should have sent a chill down every true American’s spine.
86
@Anonymous
A "rejection of indentured servitude."
What would you call SLAVERY?
20
@Anonymous
Indentured servitude was widely practiced in Colonial America as a way to be able to emigrate to the US.
9
Does money inevitably corrupt?
17
Absolutely
5
@Kelly R
I don't know but extreme wealth sure makes it easier for one to engage in corruption. Warren Buffet seems the exception.
10
@Kelly R Or corrupt people are more likely to be wealthy. I think that being a sociopath helps a lot if you want to become wealthy.
12
The Lesson?
NEVER share a driveway.
That is a corollary of the better known: Fences make good neighbors.
41
@Nancy Sculerati MD
But Mr, Bacon, you seem like a very good man.
2
@Nancy Sculerati MD That's what you got out of this?
27
This struck me:
“ a small developing nation where the minimum wage is just $210 a week”
The minimum wage in the United States is $290 a week.
591
@kkseattle
40 hour week at $10.00 an hour is NOT $290.
Where are you getting your numbers? Which State has a minimum wage of $7.25??
1
@Nancy Sculerati MD
Around 20 states have a minimum wage of $7.25, which at 40 hours comes to $290. But I imagine not many people working for minimum wage in those states work a full 40 hours a week because of health care laws.
196
@Nancy Sculerati MD You DO understand that the federal minimum wage is exactly that—$7.25 an hour?
Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, N. Carolina, N. Dakota, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming, to answer your question.
200
Each is gross in his own way and neither has ever met a grudge of which he will let go.
24
Just like clock work. The Weinstein thing is winding down so the NYT has to come up with yet another prurient story line.
So you don’t think the epidemic of rape and abuse of women is real? It should be front and center in the headlines until men stop attacking women and the police and courts start investigating and convicting the perpetrators.
75
Reading this is messy, I can only imagine trying to put an investigative article together. Kudos to NYTimes
157
This guy has been a pariah in Canada since the 80's due to his behaviour. Its amazing that its gone on so long. Wonder if he Prince Andrew ever visited his island.
209
@Scott D It's being reported in U.K. media that Prince Andrew had visited Nygard in the Bahamas before. It would be interesting to know if Nygard's and Epstein's paths ever crossed in that depraved underworld. It disheartening to read how these repulsive, debauched men got away with sexual predatory behaviour for years because of the size of their bank accounts.
96
Apparently, yes, Prince Andy was a visitor. Quelle surprise!
And I gather that Nygard, a Finnish immigrant, has disavowed Canadian residency for decades. “In 2006, Canadian tax authorities claimed Nygård underreported $15 million in taxes. Nygård argued that he severed residential ties with Canada in 1975; he was ultimately subject to taxes on an unreported $2 million.” (Wikipedia)
Meanwhile he has tried to keep a lid on those extremely creepy parties at his Mayan pleasure palace.
“In 2012, Nygård launched a lawsuit against the CBC regarding copyright issues about private videos taken at his residence, which were then used in an April 2010 documentary.” (Wikipedia)
56
If this photo shows how a "fashion executive" really dresses himself, I'd be wary of any of his design choices.
150
Top of page 1 headline and almost 3 full pages inside Sunday's print edition? Really? Why are you so obsessed with the squabbles of the rich and famous? Some of us who live in the real world could care less. Where's the news that matters?
7
@Judy Henderson I care. Serial rapists and pedophiles deserve our full attention and the full force of the legal system, which can often be jumpstarted by investigative journalism such as this. The point of this story isn’t their squabble, but rather what it brought to light. Lastly, when you say you ‘could care less,’ it implies that you care.
129
@Judy Henderson Squabbles of the rich and famous? Nygard has been credibly accused or rape and pedophilia.
Maybe you don't care about victims of those crimes, but many of us very much do.
114
@Judy Henderson
It doesn't matter that girls and young women may be being systematically raped and exploited? It matters to me. I hope if this kind of behavior is exposed, over and over again, the guilty parties will finally stop thinking they can get away with it.
56
It is great to hear such tales of plutocrats debauching themselves. Time for us to get behind Bernie or Elizabeth as they go about cleaning up the mess the super rich have made in many countries.
99
Nygard relate to Jeff Epstein?
the idle, insidious rich!
16
There seem to be a lot of Jeffrey Epsteins out there.
352
@PM
Maybe Nygard and Weinstein will be able to share a cell and exchange stories
22
That's what happens when you have people with money to burn and time to waste.
257
Oh, more fun and games with the plutocrats. It certainly makes for a good read even if the allegations are distressingly familiar. I was prepared to say a pox on the both of them but it's pretty clear Nygard is a Class A sociopath. Hard to believe he hasn't been nailed yet in some country or other. But in the dismal age of trump the power of money to buy immunity is as depressingly apparent as ever.
456
@Innocent Bystander It seems like only yesterday people were Bushwhacked, now they're Trumpstruck. Look, this has zero to do with Trump. These predators, who are particularly concentrated in fashion, media, and entertainment, have been operating like this for many decades. In many cases, it's been an open secret.
35
Yet another tale of power and corruption.
Remind me again why uber wealthy deserve so much more compensation than the average wage earner?
395
Trying to decide which one more looks/acts like a Bond villain: Nygard or Bacon.
This story's a plot set up for an action movie that has no hero. Just bad guys.
143
@RR
Louis Bacon is a legitimate businessman, conservationist, and philanthropist. In my part of the world, he purchased Robins Island, a pristine wilderness in the middle of Peconic Bay, and restored it. He also gave in excess of 500 acres of land on the a South Fork of Long Island to the Nature Conservatory. I’m given to understand that he replicated these actions in other parts of the U.S. His mistake was in his choice of investigators. When someone implies that he’s “ex CIA”, he usually isn’t.
68
@RR Seems like Nygard gets the nod for being the worse of the two.
25
@John O'Brien First thing he did after he swooped in and bought Robins Island, which should have been a public space (he took a predators advantage of an 11 hour lapse in a long-running dispute between State and County, and snapped it up for only 11 million!! Only!) first thing he did is empty the existing ponds of the rare mud turtles who were established there - the ponds were not convenient to his development plans..Environmentalist, I think not.
121