An awful tragic event that should never have happened. Condolences to Germany, the migrants of Germany, and the bereaved. I’m so sorry for your loss and that you have had to endure this terrible violence.
12
Are we permitted to call this ‘terrorism,’ or is the word only used when the bombers and gunmen originate from nations outside Western Europe and the United States?
282
@chambolle
Yes. The German Attorney General's office has taken the lead in the investigation as a suspected act of right-wing terrorism. The truly artificial and, I hope, tongue-in-cheek, distinction you are making definitely does not apply in Germany.
31
Tim McVeigh was referred to as a terrorist.
7
@chambolle
Despite the semblance of a "lone-wulf", it will be handled as a act of terror. That will give leverage against anyone, who has supported the attacker. Especially those people, who have provided him with the guns. This is nothing extraordinary, it is just likely, that there had been people close to him, who had known his dangerousness, who have supported and encouraged him. And they will not just get away with some lame excuses.
At least that is the intention.
7
Thank you for publishing this.
This atrocity hasn't received enough coverage on cable news networks. If this were committed by a non-white person, the Fox News Crew would be apoplectic
21
As it happens time and time again, a German killing immigrants or other Germans of Middle Eastern origins is a sick, deranged killer. An immigrant killing Germans is by definition a terrorist; his mental health never enters the discussion.
Of course we can substitute "a white American" for "German" and that statement would still be true.
5
@JB This particular German, Tobias R., has definitely been called a terrorist in German news and newspapers and radio. No one has prettied anything up in his defense.
12
I am terribly saddened for our German neighbors in the wake of this horrendous attack. But I hope this can serve as a warning to Western Europe at large that the region is not the oasis of tolerance that it thinks it is. I hope Europeans will keep Hanau in mind next time they think to patronize and chastise other countries like the US over their racial issues.
10
Sounds disturbingly like something that occurred in Germany in recent history.
3
The concern among some officials was that Republicans might be angry if the Democrats knew that Russia is interfering in our elections to help Trump?
Could there be a clearer example of Republicans putting the GOP before the USA?
4
Last December, I made my first visit to Berlin and was greatly impressed by the extent to which that city had, through its various memorials (e.g. Holocaust Memorial, brass plaques imbedded in the sidewalks bearing the names of those murdered by the Nazis), come to terms, so to speak, with its horrific past. I was also struck by the level of multiculturalism throughout the city. All of this was encouraging. But this recent attack attests that fear and hatred are still alive in Germany. All people of good will and courage must stand together and not allow evil to triumph.
11
The "benefits" of social media.
The entire Western world is going insane.
11
I would like to see those virtual evidences.
1
I’m curious why the authors kept referring to the locales were the tragedies occurred as “bars” as opposed to “hookah bars” until the end of the article?
“Bar” has a different connotation in English. The reader might assume a drinking bar. If these victims were mostly Turkish and Kurdish men, they were possibly Muslim and thus not allowed to drink alcohol.
When I heard the account reported on BBC they referred to the “bars” as “hookah bars”.
Accuracy is appreciated. It’s 2020, the majority of us are familiar with hookah bars.
4
Jack and Melissa, Why did you make that decision?
The face of evil/hate has no boundaries. Sadly, our Stable Genius and his message of "divide and conquer" reached Hanau. For those who perished, they are in the arms of angels. They are safe. For those whom they left behind, our Stable Genius' mantra is now part of their existence.
The world needs to recognize and act upon messages of hate, division, and fear. All Americans need to vote for the removal of our current leader and his minions who espouse and protect him.
Let us say a prayer for the shooter's mother.
6
Minorities are being gunned down like this, with alarming and growing frequency, and the first thing many of you have to say, is that they/we should be disarmed?
Do you hear yourselves?
"Banning or restricting firearms is the most white-privileged idea ever. Rich liberals scoffing at the notion that a person might need to defend their own life is a tower so ivory you can't look at it in direct sunlight. It's the personal safety equivalent of saying 'just have the maid do it'."
6
So many startling eye openers in this story. While the police investigation just started the Chancelor of Germany makes a public statement blaming the AfD party, and rightwing etremists. While the investigation just got started, the President of Germany, their guru of all correctness and a lawyer himself, makes a public statement about right extremism. Then it turns out the Constitutional Police, Verfassungsschutz, had him under observation and knew that he was a psychotic man. Then the local authorities grant him permission to own and operate a 9mm handgun after doing a background check. It just leaves one flabbergasted at the incompetency of Germans, on every level. Meanwhile, no evidence has been made public that tied this suspect to any political party. He did supposedly speak fluent English according to a German source and has quoted American extremist folklore, of the psychotic kind.
4
From reading this article one gets the impression that the person who carried out this attack was a mentally stable person, and that this attack was the latest in a series of right wing racist mass killings. However the actual facts of the case which provide important context to what happened were omitted, most likely deliberately.
For example the article states that the killer addressed Americans "calling on them to fight now.” However the article fails to explain that he spoke of underground military bases in America where he claims Satan worship and child abuse takes place, and this was why he was urging Americans to rise up and storm the compounds. Or that he said he never engaged in sexual activity because he was under constant government surveillance. Or that he included links in his manifesto to conspiracy theorists who claim to have carried out autopsies on aliens or to be investigating missing persons cases which they link to alien abduction. Even his racist views were deranged in that he wrote that he wrote a list of about 30 countries that he thinks need to be annihilated.
Therefore this story is more about a mentally deranged person going on killing spree which was brought about by his belief in a reality that existed only in his mind, than it is about a racist killing based on neo Nazi beliefs. However because the actual facts here do not serve to demonstrate the threat posed by actual neo Nazis the story was presented as something it was not.
5
I'm Turkish-American, I'll never forget the moment a German man told me that Turks were the Mexicans of Germany, to which I responded "..whats wrong with Mexicans?"
22
Darn good answer. Thanks.
8
@Dee Years ago someone Swiss told me that Italians were the Mexicans of Switzerland. Perspective, eh?
5
You should really mention that he was probably mentally ill. He spoke for example of agents of a secret service who could read minds. There is a difference between nazis who are defined by xenophobia like Hitler and mentally ill people whose illness is influenced by a certain ideology.
7
To prevent this poison from spreading further here, we need to eradicate the racist bigoted anti-immigrant terrorist right-wing groups, and the urgently required first step toward the goal is to outlaw the Republican Party.
4
It is imperative that the German government step up its efforts to deter such right wing violence. It was tolerance for such actions by the extreme right (Nazis, Stalheims, Freikorps) during the Weimar Republic that greatly led to its demise and the Nazis taking power.
7
A tragic event anytime innocent people get murder by little cowards with delusions of heroism and martyrdom. Germans should feel thankful of not having to deal with government leaders that provoke violence against immigrants.
7
For the last few years, I’ve went around and around with a friend of 30 plus years, who somewhere along the way, took a far-right turn. I’m sure many of you can speak of similar situations. One of his talking points was that the right doesn’t commit acts of violence...the left does it. I pointed out the holes in his statement...but, this far-right violence has become ever more common...with many violent acts influenced in some way by Trump. I stopped talking politics and history with him when he tried to tell me Hitler and the Nazis were socialists because they called themselves the National Socialist German Workers’ Party.
We need to vote this tiny, tiny man out of office in November.
9
scroll way down "in other news"??? Reverse the ethnicities of the terrorist and the victims and imagine how far up the story would be.
5
Germany has accepted unwisely immigrants who wish harm on German society.
3
@Frank
So what are you really saying? C'mon, there's an inference there I think, no?
8
@Frank Tobias R.'s ethnic background hasn't been released yet, and I've read the German papers today. What do you know about his immigration status?
4
May all of Germany become The White Rose. And instead of like WWII where there were only a few, who then paid the ultimate price, an entire nation can squash this hate and forever show that old Aryan driven hate will never be welcome.
And may the US follow your lead.
8
Buckle down - it's beginning, and it will come here! That radical "far right", Trump's most enthusiastic Second Amendment cheerleaders and Nazi wannabes, are here too, and they're armed to the teeth thanks to lax gun laws which should have been enacted decades ago.
Watch as they surface and Trump does NOTHING, as usual.
7
There needs to be government regulation of the internet because clearly facebook and youtube are incapable of a moral backbone, if not these hate crimes will continue since the far right use social media for terrorist means, exactly the same as Islamic extremists. Do something now or continue facing these episodes with the added problem of pseudo gamers grooming young men to become radicalized.
10
As a biracial half-German there's no way I can say that I find this at all surprising, since the tide has turned in Germany when it comes to immigrants, especially as waves of migrants continue to come into Germany and Europe with no signs of it abating any time soon, and the right-wing Alternative für Deutschland (AfD) continues to make headwinds on the national political landscape.
In many ways, it's reminiscent of the problems facing this country when it comes to resentment and fears around foreigners; which is a significant change from only a short time ago when Chancellor Merkel's cry of "WIR SCHAFFEN DAS!" (We can do it!) made it seem like a multi-cultural society was once remotely possible.
Of course that's all changed now.
And with Frau Merkel's pending departure, the recent resignation of her heir apparent and imminent collapse of the conservative party, it's anybody's guess where the country is headed.
Just, hopefully -- not back to the past.
15
It’s not just your country. It’s the world.
And though I am intensely liberal and humane I too believe these countries sending endless seas of refugees must end the tide. We can send aid and export doctors and medicine and food. But we shouldn’t be obliged to take an endless sea of foreigners into our countries too many of whom are illiterate, or poorly educated and unable and unwilling to adopt to the host country. My pity has run dry.
They procreate huge families into poverty, want, disease and despair and then want to rush the borders of developed countries to save themselves. I’m sorry but try birth control.
I worked for an immigration lawyer who helped draft false narratives of prosecution and life threats when the truth was they were economic refugees. People are rightfully terrorized in feeling they are losing their native cultural identities to mass immigration.
That said - these crazy conspiracy madmen must indeed be silenced and governments need to shut down their hate crazed and terrorist inspiring web pages.
11
@René Pedraza Del Prado.
One of the advantages of being a duo-national is seeing the world from different sides -- so I'm well aware that it's not just my country.
That said, Germany's more recent history with National Socialism makes it a bit more frightening when it comes to the advent of right-wing activity.
Humanity couldn't stand another repeat of that.
4
@René Pedraza Del Prado. Rene, countries don't send refugees: people flee countries where they face violence, hatred, and poverty. Please get your facts straight.
7
When will would-be terrorists begin to understand that killing others does not solve their problems or even bring them useful attention?
7
The more government takes from citizens to provide for others, the more they dislike more others. Liberty is the preferred solution, but instead, government divides and gives special interests more than others, and this corruption and unfair practice creates the hatred of others who seem to just show up and then consume public resources that shouldn't have been granted to anybody in the first place. The more government power you have, the more the people feel trapped and controlled, which creates violence.
9
How do you explain that in some societies, for example in Germany or even more in Scandinavia, you couldn’t win an election if you proposed to reduce public funding of education, health care, parental leave, a strong social security system?
How come quality of life and happiness are higher in those societies than in elbow based societies?
12
As an American living in Germany, what I want to know is how did he get a gun? They aren’t so easy to come by here. So far, neither the German nor US media have addressed this point.
It’s one thing to live with right wing extremists, it’s another to live with _armed_ right wing extremists.
8
Ella Brians, german main media reported that he was member in a marksmanship club and legally owned guns. The reports are not clear, however, if he legally owned the one he used for the murders.
6
@Ella Brians As Helleborus said, he had a legal license and belonged to some kind of Schuetzenverein. His paranoia wasn't apparent until it boiled over.
2
Germany should not make the same mistake we do in the US. Here we condemn "hate" and quickly characterize these acts as those of disturbed individuals.
But white supremacy is an ideology, not a state of mind. It has a history, a philosophy and a whole host of rationales. It has been part of our institutions, our laws, our science and our foreign an social policy.
To treat white supremacy as the rantings of a disturbed individual is to make the same mistake that was made with the Nazis's in the 1930's. Suddenly that lone, crazed individual was commanding all the institutions of the state and each of them responded accordingly.
In America the "lone individual" theory is our way of not confronting the reality of white supremacy. Germany has a different history, one both prophetic and tragic.
Let us hope that German's will learn from their history that combating anti-immigrant violence is simply part of a larger campaign against white supremacists ideology and it is a long hard struggle. They know. They've been at it for nearly 70 years and still these tragedies happen.
18
This made me glad the Democratic Party debates didn’t cover immigration in last nights debate. We have enough problems.
5
@RjW
I read the German news just to be thankfully reminded of how sane and decent things are in the good ole USA.
But, it turns out, he's a friend of Trump so he won't serve a day?
7
@Cindy
Unrelated and absurd.
1
@Cindy Umm, he's dead, so it doesn't matter whom he's friends with at this point.
2
He won‘t serve a day because he is dead. After he killed 9 people, he shot his mother and himself.
2
My condolences to the victims' families.
The comments indicating that strict German gun laws is one of the causes of this awful tragedy is absurd. The US has some of the most lax gun laws in the world, and the number of gun deaths in the US, either by suicide or violence, dwarfs those in Germany. This event is not a call to arms but for better mental heath treatment and for better detection of extremist violence.
17
I would like to highlight that the shooter’s mother was also likely a victim of her son. In no way do I want to detract from the atrocious violence committed by this man and the murder of these (likely) immigrants. Of note however, is the consistent connection between mass shooters and domestic violence. Thus far it has been a key component that most of the shooters have shared. Often mass violence starts with private violence. I do not have any solution to provide, but a hope that authorities can start taking domestic violence, and particular, violence against women more seriously.
221
@A.O. I'm not sure that your argument applies to mass shooters who act out of political or racist motives; in most of those types of cases I don't think there's evidence that backs you up.
7
I would encourage you to look up mass shooters— regardless of who the “targets” are.
Omar Mateen abused his wife violence, Adam Lanza murdered his mother, Dylan Roof had violence at home. All these people murdered different groups of people- LGBTQIA, African Americans, children. There’s many other mass shooters with these histories, regardless of personal ideology.
54
@Jon Actually, AO is correct. I recall an article or 2 in the NYT discussing that there is often domestic violence history in the backgrounds of mass shooters.
33
While many people say this tragedy shouldn't be politicized, I want to disagree and say it even has to be politicized. As a matter of fact, President Trump is a big inspiration to all right-wing terrorist action around the world. His hatred and bigotry affects not only the US, but the entire world. The Christchurch terrorist was inspired by him and now it hit us. His words foster terrorism and enable violence to happen. The amount of violence in the name of nationalism increased significantly since he got elected. Words have consequences. Voting has consequences. I hope you remember this when you go to the polls in November. Thank you from Germany.
442
@Insurgent I speak german and it was said he believed to have a connection to trump /that trump does what he thinks and the other way around(psychotic obviously). So -fair point. I assume when people like him are in power, they give such psychotic even more validation for their thinking.
37
@Insurgent I agree with you. "This tragedy shouldn't be politicized" is too often code for "we won't acknowledge concerns with our policy/society/leadership or even discuss them, not now, not ever".
It is heartbreaking that our elected leader has displayed so much cowardice, selfishness, and ignorance when it comes to hate - and even more so that we have segments of our population who support this either openly, through their silence, or through a really-should-know-better befuddlement (confused, perhaps hurt whenever people point out all the racism and crime - as if pointing it out is the issue!).
We should use all peaceful means we can to stop the spread of violent ideologies antithetical to democratic society. Vote, lobby, protest, call, write letters, engage in civil disobedience, sue, join nonprofits, volunteer, donate, run for local office, talk to your relatives and neighbors with love. Be a leader in your community at whatever level you can, and embody your values. Let's each commit to one small way we can overcome "political hobbyism", get out of our social media feeds and into the actual weed-pulling work.
18
@Insurgent So terrorism carried out in the name of Islam should be politicized as well, correct? And the clerics and religious/political leaders of Islam, whose words foster terrorism and violence should also be condemned, rather than supported, by elected officials?
8
The perception of immigration of intrusion into an established society of a specific 'race', needs to be given its due consideration and managed with discretion and delicacy instead of condemning it as hatred and driving it 'underground' and thus provoking it further.
The acceptance of immigrations has to be given legitimacy within a society by addressing concerns of the concerned society and allowing for those concerns to find a voice and to be addressed in the legal forums which pass immigration laws on basis of a larger idea of 'secularism and / or social integration'.
151
@Nirmal Patel This is an extremely valid point of view, one ignored by despots to inflame anti-immigration fears and passions to gain political power. That is happening right now in the United States and our President is the one doing the inflaming. We are at an incendiary time in our history as a race all over the planet. Can cooler minds prevail? I hope so.
55
@Nirmal Patel I think that this is a valid point that few people stop to make in the heat of the moment. When a society is changing rapidly,in its makeup,in its demographics etc it is pretty natural for people to feel apprehension. It's natural for people to wonder "if all of these new people are welcomed here will there still be room for me? If these new ideas that they bring into the culture are accepted, even ones that are so different from mine what of all that I have always believed and known? Does it still have worth? Did it ever? " It is important for those at the top to foster a climate of acceptance & openness to reassure frightened people that there will be room enough for all to live well & have their voices heard.
That is unfortunately NOT what is occurring in so many places today. From the top of the governments people's fears are encouraged not assuaged & from more liberal corners to even express such concerns marks one instantly as racist.
I don't have concerns about immigration,I am pleased to see & meet new arrivals in my community,I think that difference can only make the place more vibrant & wonderful to live in.But I have sympathy for people who express concern about it and try not to jump to the conclusion that they are just racists.They are people who are experiencing legitimate concerns and receiving zero encouraging words from their own governments in fact often the governments are stoking those embers of concern into raging fires of fear and hatred.
38
@Nirmal Patel
If what you're saying is that an open democratic society needs to be able have a open conversation about complicated issues like immigration and identity, then I agree with you.
If you're implying that the concerns of people who are afraid of immigrants coming to Germany haven't been validated enough, then I don't.
That has happened, a lot. Both politicians and the media have repeatedly validated that the influx of foreigners is of course a challenge to people. But at a certain point you'll have to assume that grown-up individuals have the ability to adapt to changing environments. Especially if the circumstances of their lives are objectively good and there's no immediate realistic danger of that to change (we're one of the richest countries in the world for crying out loud).
Because otherwise the only thing you're doing is that you're giving validation to people rationalizing their racist fears as "rightful concern".
59
Dear Germany, deepest condolences on this and other right-wing violent attacks. May your media never grow so accustomed to them that they don't result in a public outcry.
Here in the United States this attack you have suffered would barely make the news, and would be immediately followed by NRA protests and complaints of "politicizing a tragedy." Don't let this violence become your "new normal," as it has become for us.
Please keep fighting the good fight against racism and bigotry while we in the USA struggle to restore our very damaged democracy.
534
@Albatross
As one of those ex-pats who would be included in the "one quarter with migration background", thank you. While we do not have the NRA to down-play and politicize this wanton, random, senseless act of right-wing violence, we do have the AFD (Alternative For Deutschland in translation), a true neo-Nazi party that has grown primarily in the new federal states over the past five years or so.
While Germany is normally much stricter than the US about clamping down on insulting "name-calling", there is one AFD "chapter" which has as it leader an individual who may legally (a court ruled it is OK) be called a Fascist and he may not complain about it, despite all the historical baggage that title has.
27
@Albatross
"Please keep fighting the good fight against racism and bigotry"
I don't remember any fight against anti-Semitism after Monsey and Jersey City in this country from people of the same demographic as the killers.Quite the opposite.
6
@Albatross Thank you for your kind words. My third or fourth thought was that our gun laws are still way too lax. Even though this guy was a sport shooter, he never should have had any guns at home. Chances are that this policy might change after this tradegy.
15
The far right extremists are much more dangerous than immigrants that Trump lies about and targets. He ( and by their support of him, the GOP) enables these hate groups and individuals. The potential is worse here than in Germany because of our weak controls on who has weapons, what weapons they have and our very sick love of guns in our Country. These extremists might target immigrants, color, religion and often even school children. When you lie, encourage conspiracy theories , don’t believe in facts or truth, pander to the extremists, you are complicit in their acts. No doubt this killer in Germany felt emboldened by our sorry excuse for a “ leader “.
31
@BB You are speaking against these hate groups, but how do you think they start?
By putting ideas and opinions against different groups, races, religions, or specific people and leaders that blame them for problems. Exactly what you are doing now - blaming and hating against Trump with your own opinions - will help to create hate groups and will create extremists like in this article against Trump.
Also, it is quite ridiculous to say that one man enables hate groups when really terrorism and hate groups have been happening long before he was president or was an influence.
8
During the late sixties and seventies the world was rocked by left wing terrorists who advocated violence to promote their warped version of change. Some on the political left tried to rationalize this terror but the majority rejected this sophistry. We are now going through a similar situation coming from the alt right. 'Mainstream' politicians are ignoring or rationalizing the violence. They will say "of course we are against violence" but they show their true colors by parroting the terrorists talking points and encourage the violence by adopting the rhetoric of the terrorists. The Trump clan on multiple occasions has retweeted far right groups that promote and inflame their followers to 'take up arms ' to protect their white ethno-state views, and then state that
"of course we never would advocate violence." Hogwash. You can't borrow the terrorist rhetoric for political gain and then absolve yourself of complicity in their violence.
23
How many times have we seen this scenario played out? An extremist Right-Winger, shooting people of color. Violence encouraged by Right-Wing media and leaders like Victor Orban, Vladimir Putin, and Donald Trump.
84
@Derek you can add Austria's Freedom Party and their former leader and Vice-Chancellor Christian Strache to that list.
7
@Derek Violence is NOT encouraged by mentioned leaders but by others (mostly by some hatred groups using the internet as well as by some religious "scholars")
@Some Well, I guess I should not have believed my ears when I clearly heard Trump call for violence several times, and infer that violence should be committed when he was not outright supporting it.
I thought that because his lips were moving and the words came out means he said it, but maybe that's just me.
8
This took place right after stories about the rise of the "Boogaloo" right wing factions in the US who are hoping and planning for a civil war/or a race war in the event that Trump loses. I fear that this type of violence will become more and more common place in the US as Trump continues his MAGA "Uber Alles" ("above all else") rallies, goaded on by the Stephen Miller types in the administration, inciting the disenfranchised to blame non-Caucasians for their troubles.
35
Let us not blame Angela Merkel but condemn the hatemongers who fan this kind of xenophobic violence.
46
Ok, this is enough. The material on the internet that is provoking this sort of "self-radicalize" behavior needs to be removed. freedom of speech has limits. We are in a war of words not a war of cultural difference. The war across the world is between those who provoke people to hatred and those who are attempting to bring us together. Those who use the sharp pointed stick of animosity to blame others (who might be different in some way) for a community, national or even personal problem must stop. The US President and our Republican party have given such language permission as they use division to gain power. And the technique is now spanning the globe. It must stop, we must stop it.
The internet, I had hoped would save lives, make communication between cultures better. But it is over run with hate. In the US, beginning with FOX but supported by hundreds of like minded followers, screaming at the screen about how the world is ending if they hear "happy holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas". This is how hate speech starts. It is a small step to hating those who say happy holidays as "the other" and another small step to killing them. I believe it's the hate speech we need to control more than guns. We need political correctness, that's right, political correctness is a good thing.
The internet needs PC. It isn't political in fact, that's a hater invention but kindness and acceptance. Rejecting PC was just an excuse to be mean and cruel and hateful.
22
@Patricia Tawney so, say the right words or it is off to the gulag then.... huh... so free... so tolerant.
9
@Patricia Tawney If you're going to censor what people can and can't say, then you're the fascist, not your opponents. Don't think that the tools of censorship will always be in the hands of people you consider allies. Can you imagine Trump with the power to censor the internet? Think more, react less.
15
I am seeing more condemnation of this crime in Europe from US activists and some leftwing politicians then I was the Monsey NY and Jersey City attacks which occured in this country. Also, we need to be consistent. Saying this shows "the threat" of white rightwing racism while the violence in Monsey, Jersey City and Crown Heights is referred to as "a dispute between blacks and Jews" is unacceptable. When Charleston happened the confederate flags came down. No changes have occured due to these anti-Jewish terrorist attacks: those who openly sympathized with the perpetrators are still in the Democratic party and Board of Education.
2
We are under a permanent threat of extremism. But it is not the nationalists and white-race supremacists, that are our saviour. It's them, who are the threat.
We must get much more vocal, we should put the gloves off. No more appeasement, it didn't work 1938, it doesn't work now. We should turn the same rhetoric, they use against migrants, against them.
If we don't fight them now, they will keep on dragging the political establishment to the fringe, and we will end up with something like the GOP in the US or the tories in GB.
5
Investigate their social media histories. If Russian influence is still detectable, it’d be a relief to find evidence of it. Otherwise the anti omg hate is a real, homegrown and organic.
Don’t know which is harder to stop.
1
Just points to the failure of EU forced multiculturalism and strict gun laws.
8
@M No, it shows there shouldn't be exceptions for people pretending to be interested in "markmanship" when, of course, like all gun owners they're really interested in killing.
8
@M
“Failure of strict gun laws”.
So, If the gun laws were less strict, it is less likely that this would’ve happened?
Is that your contention?
5
Clearly, it doesn't. Tragedies like this are rare occurences.
4
This reads like a scene from the movie "Joker" coming to life. Mental illness and deep seated resentment is a deadly combination. RIP to the victims.
5
It really angers me that a majority of these comments are relating this German terrorism to Trump. This, in fact, has nothing to do with the U.S... and nothing to do with Trump.
Stop blaming Trump for something he didn't cause. What many of these German gunmen have said shows that they don't have much respect for Trump - one believing he is under mind control, and this specific shooter thinking that he is not in control of what is "really secretly happening in the U.S". It doesn't seem to me that these violent shooter were inspired by him - at least nothing we know suggests that at all.
Terrorism and hate groups against other ethnicities and religious groups have been happening for centuries - long before Trump was in power.
Even if he did encourage hate against other groups, it is not logical to blame every attack on Trump and that it was his influence that caused it. I can assure you that most if not all of these attacks would have happened with our without Trump being the president because of how long this has been happening before Trump was ever here.
20
Assure me all you want.
Trump is the most openly racist and xenophobic national leader in the First World.
To claim that his words and actions have no influence is naive.
21
@Anonymous 1
The administration here is part of the world wide hate others way of thinking.
14
@Anonymous 1
Agreed. Trump is not the problem; he is one of the symptoms. The shooter in Hanau is but another symptom; the reaction to a rapidly changing civilization that seems beyond anyone's control.
5
Condolences to the victims and families, and to Germany.
9
Germany has some of the “strictest gun laws.” Too bad none of the victims could defend themselves
6
What nonsense.
First, you don’t know if any of the victims was carrying.
Second, no one would have had time to unholster a firearm, flick off the safety, and aim and fire.
It’s a childish mentality to think if everyone were armed we’d be safer. The most firearm deaths and injuries occur in the places where there are the most guns.
16
The vast majority of germans supports current gun laws. While still unfortunate, the rate of 1 gun-related death per year (per 100.000 citizens) is an achievement in itself. The US's rate is 12 time higher.
16
@Alberto Abrizzi
If guns made us safer from gun violence, the USA would easily be the safest place, but it’s not, because they don’t.
25
Terrorism by any is Terrorism & not Religion specific. This was Right Wing extremist Terrorism
7
Even if one accepts the (lame and idiotic) excuse for this violence by calling it a backlash to Chancellor Merkel's admission of Syrian refugees, what do Turkish-Germans and Syrian refugees have in common? Turkey and Syria don't even have the same language. If the commonality is that they're all darker complexion and Muslim, then that basically harks back to racist and religious bigotry.
18
Can a paranoiac psychopath be a racist? Or, does a paranoiac psychopath hold racist views/delusions? Son of Sam, was he a misogynist? Or, were his delusions focused on women?
Crying "Racism" when there isn't means what will happen?
5
Of course a paranoid psychopath can be a racist. He can be pretty much any -ist and choose his victims accordingly. Woman, children. policemen, red haired people. In a racist environment, paranoid psychopaths are probably more likely to become racists.
5
There’s a significant mental illness factor here that’s not being addressed.
10
Ya Derry.....it’s called radical right wing nuts
16
@Derry Stop blaming this on mental illness. There is no psychiatric diagnosis for someone who murderously hates other humans just b/c they are not white. These people are just plain evil.
20
Well hatred and racism are indeed a mental illness. Too bad they infect so many millions.
10
First right wing politicians start wars in foreign lands to control access to natural resources, which cause massive refugee crisis as people flee the devastation. Then they target and kill the ones that escaped and showed up at their doorstep. What a great group of people. When will people finally put an end to these despicable groups?
17
Many years ago, I used to read a blog about statement analysis. I stopped because the author started repeating stories from Germany about atrocities that immigrants were perpetrating that made me uneasy, because these stories never had any names attached, they were vague and couldn't be fact checked. I see now the result of these type of stories, spread by the internet. I guess in the old days it would have been some newsletter, but now it is fully anonymous and reaches so many. The world is full of people who are paranoid by nature and whose anger is seeking a scapegoat. The internet is there to guide them into a focused hatred. None of those who promote the information take any responsibility to fact check it or for the results of spreading it. What a world.
20
Hi there,
I don´t like the lable alwas being about Far-Right since in my opinion it´s not the main point - even when I believe the actual Far-Right Parties like the AfD and before them the NPD are a breeding & gathering ground for sad simpletons, greedy opportunists who run along for personal advantage and some smart, scrupelous people who like to lead simpletons and use opportunists to gain power and money - which always works just fine since it´s pretty easy as history has proven over and over again.
The point is, 9 random people are dead which is horrible for the victims who had the bad luck to be there and especially their families who have to live with the knowledge that it also could have been anyone else to die and not their loved ones.
I say random, because their immigration background didn´t kill them, since I doubt the killer checked their IDs, knew them or their families or their personal history.
This guy killed 9 people he didn´t know. Period. And probably his mother. Period.
If this guy acted only on stereotypes when he went into these Bars to shoot people he probably would have shot anyone who looked like he thought had stereotypical features which he thought identified them as his "target group".
So instead of repeating or labeling the shooting in Headlines "Far-Right" the bold print should be MURDER.
It already feels to me like the "Far-Right" Label is becoming a "Brand" which makes it "normal" for people who feel to be far right to shoot people.
3
@Xaver
you can say far right murder. he had racist things on his posts.
7
Oh - he knew. He didn’t shoot up a bunch of white Deutschlanders. He wanted to kill “Turks”. As the minister pointed out, he was likely self-radicalized thanks to the Net.
It’s not murder. It’s domestic terrorism that’s arrived in Deutschland.
19
I disagree. His words and actions prior to the murders provide evidence that he is an individual who believes in far-right ideology.
He went to a location frequented by immigrants to increase the likelihood that his actions would inflict maximum harm to immigrants. He didn’t check their IDs, but he took a calculated gamble to increase the chances he’d kill immigrants.
The label fits.
9
It's important to say the words: right-wing extremist terrorism.
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@Eduard Vaykher
In an article about right wing terrorism, there is just one mention of "far-right terrorist", and STILL they manage to squeeze in an "Islamic terrorism."
1
"The suspect and his mother, neither of whom were officially identified, were both found shot dead in his home early Thursday."
Look behind nearly every instance of mass violence, globally and domestically in the U.S., and you will find it: domestic and family violence. Violence against women and children.
We must begin looking at the root of the problem, the intersection of structural racism and misogyny, in tandem, to address the symptom of these problems: mass violence. In addition to these factors, many of the underlying problems are economic, and will not go away until we address the underlying inequalities of capitalism. In recent years, researchers and advocates for the prevention of domestic and family violence have created a list of risk factors for violence to escalate into homicide. These include unemployment of the violent partner and/or financial dependency of the abused partner due to controlling behavior (where they can go, who they can talk to). And of course, crucially, one of these factors is access to a gun.
Until we take seriously these vast, deeper, and, yes, trickier problems to address, we will continue to read headlines like this.
20
@Kaitlyn how does this have anything to do with women and children? Stop changing this into that fight, because it's not. This is about racism and religion and violence... this has nothing to do with violence against women and children... in fact not a single thing in this article suggests that, even killing his mom doesn't mean that.
In contrast, it even says in this article that in one bar everyone that was killed were men. So no, the root problem here is not about family violence or women and children. I don't even know how you got that.
10
Piffle.
The root of this problem is Nazism in all its forms, and I’m tired of these “Hitler was an abused child, and that explains it all,” arguments.
3
@Anonymous 1 Respectfully, I'm not sure you read my comment in its entirety. You say this is about racism and violence. I agree. And misogyny. And capitalism. It is about the connection and intersections of these bigger problems. My point is that there is not one factor and that we need diffuse, complex solutions to address the problem of mass violence.
As for your comment that "you don't even know how [I] got that," I would highly recommend Rachel Louise Snyder's book No Visible Bruises. Or, if you want a shorter read, start with this New York Times article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/10/us/mass-shootings-misogyny-dayton.html
8
Because of forever war with Islam post 9/11 the best any of us can hope for is a day without terrorism be it from a “native” or a Muslim citizen. There is no political solution. When Bush invaded Iraq our fate was sealed. We will never be free from terrorism. Syria will continue to destabilize Europe. Just wait until God forbid we elect Bernie and the right counters with fascism. I weep for the West, it is all so stupid.
3
What does 9/11 have to do with a Neo-Nazi killing African-Americans in a South Carolina church, a madman killing first graders in Connecticut, a monster killing a record number of people in the worst mass shooting in Las Vegas, another lunatic killing movie goers in Aurora, CO, Jews being killed in their synagogue or grocery store or a White Supremacist running down an innocent bystander in Charlottesville VA?
4
@Peter - primarily white non-muslim citizens have been responsible for all most all such terrorist attacks in the USA in the last decade.
6
@Peter All good points, especially a post-Trump democracy. But the problems in the Middle East began after WWI when the smug victors in that war carved up the land according to taste. The people there started catching up on retribution after 1948, the last straw in their humiliation.
A quick search of the homepage of Breitbart reveals this is not even a news story for them. If it had been the other way around-- a massacre of nine Germans by an immigrant, it would have been their top headline, in oversized flashing font, 1995-internet style.
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@A Life Sciences Scientist
A quick search of the homepage? Way to be thorough.
3
@A Life Sciences Scientist
Bright Baart is not news. It's extremist opinion masquerading as "newz."
4
How about this. It is not there. Period. Not buried. Absent.
8
I wish the Times would label this a terror attack, as this is what it was.
40
My observation here in Germany: it's an increasing and common procedure to exploit such terrible events. Racism and right-far terrorism are of course a soaring problem, but there is no need for new laws or more surveillance: the shooter was, according to the facts that are so far known, a paranoiac psychopath. He strongly believed Germany was ruled by a secret service organization; he wrote about captive children in USA, tortured by the authorities in subterranean prisons, simultaneously worshipping the Devil, and so forth. Clearly a mentally critically ill person.
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@Claus-Juergen Krenz
If holding seriously deranged conspiracy theories, notably deep state control and left wing perversions, are symptoms of a critical mental illness then millions of Americans should be hospitalized. This shooter may well have been mentally ill but his paranoia and illness was fed by the online absurdities of the far right. That most certainly can be legislatively addressed. Hate speech is not free speech.
73
@Claus-Juergen Krenz so your response is to do nothing? Just like all the conservatives in the US after every mass shooting. How about no private gun ownership? Take away the access to guns and psychos like this cannot so easily commit mass murders. Yes there are other ways to kill people but none are as quick and easy as a gun. And yes, some people will find a way to get a gun. But why don't we make it harder to do rather than easier?
12
@Claus-Juergen Krenz
You have encapsulated T.R.'s problems. The real question is why such an individual was allowed to have a weapon permit and keep it at home. There is no 2nd Amendment to use as a crutch.
As you know, more and more emergency personnel in Germany are being physically attacked while performing their, often life-saving, duties by otherwise "normal" appearing individuals. The need for more control of dangerous weapons is obvious.
14
Dear Germans, be thankful you don’t live in the US where this sort of madness happens weekly if not daily.
28
@Massimo Podrecca You are kidding me, right?
5
@Massimo Podrecca
How many incidents of this sort happened in the last week then? I can't find a mention of any racially motivated mass killings in the entire month of February aside from this one.
1
Massimo, if racist mass shootings happen weekly or daily in the US, why aren‘t they reported in the media, not even in social media?
To all those who are suggesting this guy's actions are a "result" of Germany's immigration policy...
Here is the note he left before embarking on his rampage:
"This is my personal message to all Americans. Your country is under control of invisible secret societies. They use unknown evil methods like mind control, and hold up a modern system of slavery. / If you don’t believe the following, you better wake up, quick. / In your country exists so-called deep underground military bases. In some of them they praise the devil himself. They abuse, torture and kill little children and unbelievable amount. This happens for a long period of time.'
(Source: https://metro.co.uk/2020/02/20/german-gunman-shared-far-right-conspiracy-theories-killing-nine-people-12272458/?ito=cbshare)
You're right, y'all. We really should take this guy's viewpoint seriously as a comment on immigration policy! I mean, such a rational mind he so clearly has. Next up, let's scour Jared Loughner's manifesto for pointers on socioeconomic policy too. Timothy McVeigh. The New Zealand gunman. But why stop there? When it comes to those who rightfully belong and those who are invaders, do you know who has plenty to say about that? ISIS.
STOP VALIDATING MURDERERS.
31
This is another terrible instance of a complete nutcase and loner magnifying his bizarre conspiracy and right wing theories by his online activities. At the point of no return, he takes himself out along with innocent victims who he blames for his misery, including his mother. We've seen this before, and I'm at a loss of how to prevent it, although in this particular case I do blame the far right for providing a sounding board.
17
Our President and members of his admin and entourage amplify such conspiracy theories. He’s a clear and present danger to world order.
10
An angry aggrieved man with a gun.
How many times you have we seen that before? But of course it's not they we should be worried about, but all of "those people".
31
What's wrong with this guy? Doesn't he know this type of tragedy is a unique American sickness?
He is giving Germany a bad name, a country with a high gun ownership rate without the horror story of America, ie 100k+ people being killed/injured every yr. an aberration re the rest of our peer countries.
The founding fathers especially Madison turning over in their graves, exactly what they did not want when they passed the 2nd amendment.
9
@Paul
You must feel safe in whatever hypergentrified part of Brooklyn you've recently moved to...
3
@Jackson The Framers told us what they wanted: arms available when necessary to raise a well-regulated militia.
4
@Lawyermom agreed, the framers did not say let's abuse the second amendment so 100k+ Americans are killing, injuring, themselves and others every year.
Exactly the opposite of what any sane person would want.
1
And once again Angela Merkel has the courage to declare a racist rampage the heinous crime that it is. Once again this woman has overshadowed with integrity and morality her counterpart in the United States, Donald Trump. I grieve for those innocent victims in Germany as I do time and time again for those senselessly killed here at the hands of crazed racists and bigots. But why do I think that Germany will rein in these egregious acts while America’s will continue? The answer is to be found in the character of Merkel and the lack of one within Mr. Trump.
142
@Kathy Lollock Not sure Rep. Scalise wold agree.
4
Every single word of your statement is wrong and hate mongering.
1) Angela Merkel did not invite anyone, the people you are referring to were already within the European Union.
2) They were there because the majority fled areas devastated by proxy wars or wars that were kept going by Russia on one side and the West on the other.
3) She was the opposite of reckless. “If we start having to apologize for showing a friendly face in an emergency situation, then this is not my country“. Her words and they sum it up.
42
@KM Your words are 100% inaccurate and continue to stoke the attitudes that led this lunatic to his actions.
7
Sadly, much of this right-wing hatred always comes down to skin color. There are comments below talking about the recent immigration waves. However, note that one of the victims was Roma. These people have been in Europe for hundreds of years. Yet they continue to be ostracized and demonized as the "other". Its not necessarily about their distinctive culture or poverty. Even highly educated (and removed from their communities) Roma folk face rampant discrimination and racism.
When will basic humanity rule?
20
I am curious: what “right-wing hatred,” is it that DOESN’T, “come down to skin color?”
3
Hi, Robert. Don't forget that we had some of the same stupid hatred here a while back because of whites who weren't judged to be sufficiently white because they where (I'll whisper) -papists-.
But for the most part, of course, the haters have to latch onto some easier way to pick the enemy. It's a mental time-saver for people without much bandwidth, and with a fear of competing on a level playing field with all the humans instead of a tiny fraction.
1
Hi, b fagan, but you have no idea what you’re talking about.
This article states that Germany has very strict gun control laws, but are only now planning background checks.
Huh?
5
Unless you can prove you are threatened for very strictly defined reasons you won't get a permit to carry a gun in Germany.
Most common exception for being allowed to own (not carry) a gun is being a member of a marksmen association. But you won't get an allowance unless police has run a background check. Problem: Once you have been cleared, they hardly will check you again.
The type of background check the authors of the article are referring to has been proposed most recently: Lawmakers want to pass a law that allows for more scrutiny once a permit has been issued. If passed, authorities will be empowered to withdraw a permit if its holder's behaviour shows signs of delinquency - for example support for extremist groups already under surveillance.
7
@Frank Thanks, this is a helpful clarification.
1
The far right and the far left are both poisonous extremes. Creation and growth happen in the gap somewhere near the middle.
Trump is nothing but money and Capitalism gone awry. I guess we all know that. But his existence as President has exacerbated the poison of the Far Right throughout the world, really.
We are the same species. Brothers fighting brothers. Intolerance itself must be regulated worldwide, especially when spewed from world leaders. Along with climate change and the Oligarchic Putsch occurring worldwide, racism and intolerance are existential concerns that will be with us always, and we must fight. All ways.
9
Help me out here NYT. I fail to see any reference to this man being a terrorist. Far right extremist killings still don’t count as terrorist attacks?
16
It is not mentioned in this article, but I heard on the BBC this morning that the gunman also described himself in his postings and writings as “involuntarily celibate” i.e. incel, as well as being a rabid racist xenophobe. One more reason no doubt in his twisted mind to kill innocents.
15
Please stop identifying these suspects. Does anyone remember the science fiction story of an assassin police and the court refused to identify, his credit cards and drivers license (?) were destroyed. He was identified by a number code in news coverage to prevent glorification.
4
A German terrorist*, not gunman, a German terrorist, who specifically targeted people because of his gruesome ideological motives.
19
Trump-inspired hatred.....again. Now that's global American leadership! /s
15
@Me It has a lot to do with "nationalist" Trump and his hateful rhetoric. Even if the influence is indirect, it is a real effect.
3
@Me A senior German security official said that a video posted online last week is being investigated, as it is believed to show the suspect. In it, the man addresses the camera in what he says is a "message" to Americans.
"Your country is under control of invisible secret societies," he says, warning about "mind control" and the "mainstream media." He calls on U.S. citizens to "fight now."
No, that doesn't sound a bit like Trump and his "Deep State" lunacy.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/death-toll-in-germany-shootings-climbs-to-11-including-alleged-suspect/2020/02/20/16feb5a6-53b3-11ea-80ce-37a8d4266c09_story.html
"Oh G-d no!", is what first came to mind when I saw this headline. My dearest friend, a freshman algebra teacher, was teaching in the building at Marjory Stoneman Douglas HS in Parkland, Florida during the horrific shooting. She saw her students die, she tripped over dead bodies, the scene and her own personal trauma were and are still too much to bear. Every day she and the rest of the staff and students were sent back to the scene of the crime, to continue their lives and to educate and console each other. So this academic year she procured a teaching position in Germany, in part, to heal from the trauma, and in part to start on a new path. I don't know how physically close to her school this shooting in Hanau, Germany is. But that does not matter. It is too close, no matter how far away it is. My heart aches for all those involved in theis shooting, and for all those involved in any shooting, and for my friend. I will reach out to my friend today, I hardly know what to say...
45
This Lauderdale native agrees.
4
The far-right Alternatives for Germany party should have been banned from Parliament. The rise of the right in Europe needs no encouragement.
Here in the US, we need far more assertive condemnation of Trump’s repeated hate speech and blatant encouragement of violence.
This gets real all too fast. Racism is violence, and this event is a manifestation of very real forces at work online and in politics like Trump’s.
My condolences to the victims and to the majority of Germans, who have worked very hard to learn lessons from their awful WWII behavior.
131
@Bohemian Sarah The AfD rose because they were saying what many thought but were too afraid to say: that bringing a million muslims into Germany was a terrible mistake. This is the problem with dogmas like political correctness, they make the truth taboo until it finally spills over. When the rest of the government takes the people's legitimate concerns seriously, then the AfD will have much less support.
15
@Bohemian Sarah
The conservative Alternative for Germany party has nothing to do with the massacre. The perpetrator was obviously mentally ill. In his video he posted two days before his rampage, he said that he didn't have a girl-friend and uttered confused conspiracy theories. This horrible tragedy ought not to be exploited for political purposes.
7
On what grounds? Rule of law exists here. And the AfD is keenly aware of not crossing the line. Our former Verfassungsschutz (interior intelligence) chief Maaßen even helped them. While I hate the AfD, that's simply not possible I'm afraid.
@NYT. You really should not have disclosed the name of the suspect. It is against German policy and it did not add anything of substance to this article. In addition, you are abetting future take seekers to commit copycat crimes so they can have the 5 minutes in the spotlight.
93
@jube
While I agree with you in principle and that it is against German policy, but the article points out that the complete first name and first initial of the last name were in the public domain, as was a picture, with license plate, of the car used. On the other hand, disclosing the entire name spares other men with the same first name and first initial of their last name from being possibly hounded or discriminated against.
21
@jube Journalists are obligated to report what they discover, not to follow "German policy" or any other government "policy." There are legitimate exceptions, as in the general reluctance to name underage victims of abuse or minors who are not charged as adults.
There may be unintended consequences of all kinds of reporting, but that is the price of a free press and a free society. We are already in danger of losing these freedoms and we certainly don't want journalists to be constrained by government.
12
Never understood the Parliament reason  for withholding of names (since Pissqua is not a common name), But now I see a good reason thank you.
1
And can we draw a direct line to the current executive administration in Washington DC? No. But where is it’s quick and genuine condemnation of this self- radicalized act from the far right? We all know how direct lines may be hard to draw, yet, who is better at triggering unstable response than our impulsive and often vulgar President of the USA with his loose and dangerous tweets?
42
I am waiting for the line: "Have you seen what happened yesterday in Germany?" I guess he will not say it.
3
This is exactly the position this president is fostering and pushing to enforce (elite ICE sent to sanctuary cities). I hope we don't get to see more Charlotsville tragedies as we move forward, but given that the "all mighty" orange is issuing forgiveness to criminals, who knows.
99
@Sawa
The unit being sent to "sanctuary cities" is BORSTAR, which is Border Patrol, not ICE.
3
Thanks.
Good to know it’s the SA, not the SS.
Hooray.