Ms. Cottle writes: "Nobody likes a mansplainer."
Check out the urban dictionary of mansplaining: "When a man speaks to a woman exactly the way he speaks to another man."
2
a circular firing squad will get no one elected except Trump.
2
So if someone, anonymously does something on the internet it is Bernie' s fault. Your logic is impeccable.
1
Bernie Sanders is a mild mannered school boy compared to Trump. Have you every seen Trump arms behind his back in subordinate position-a la Prince Phillip? Never! Sanders does it all the time. Shouty? Minor complaint-if that bothers you -you must not have grown up with brothers.
And speaking of “vitriolic” and “divisive” - uhm maybe read this column to see a prime example? I don’t even support Bernie as my top choice, but come on. The utter lack of self-awareness on display here is really grating.
1
The pinata is on a long stick hanging over the border to Mexico...and its attached to Free Health Care /Drivers license/ Sanctuary State status along with helping the non citizen give birth to a instant citizen and welfare.....The medium income in the U.S. is 63 thousand dollars/ the Worlds medium income is 9 thousand....Socialist Sanders who is a millionaire that is a Nightmare Heart Attack for All Tax paying Citizens and as Bloomberg stated it was Bernie and the Congress that Wrote the tax code...something they could of Worked on ..instead of going Non stop after Trump with Nothing to show for it!
2
Really to compare Sanders request for a little privacy about his health to Trump's intentional deceitfulness on all matters reveals your clean biases against Bernie. Shame on you!
2
Enough about "Bernie Bros". Working people are allowed to be angry and frustrated when they can't afford healthcare, or college, or food, or a home. Instead of telling these people to "calm down" or "be nicer", let's focus on channeling and organizing that frustration towards actual change. Bernie is doing that. And oh by the way his coalition is one of the most diverse along lines of race, gender, and class.
Let's live by the word of Dr King, who wrote in his Letter From a Birmingham Jail in 1963: "First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."
"Mr. Sanders Trumpian lack of transparency"?? Come on now. That's a Trumpian level of hyperbole!
1
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” — Mahatma Gandhi
Sanders 2020
8
Warren the warrior princess was attacking everyone. Didn’t she claim to be the Democratic unifier just last week before the debate? I guess she forgot about that as soon as she took to the stage. I must admit, though, I did enjoy her takedown of Bloomberg. That was entertaining.
6
Another day, another anti-Bernie screed in the NYT :)
The NYT, MSNBC and other establishment media outlets keep talking about the harassment of a union official (who is on the board of CAP, a think tank funded by corporate groups, and notoriously anti-Bernie). Harassment is legitimate news, so the coverage is fine.
Yet, when Nina Turner and other minority women in Bernie's staff are subjected to "vicious, racist, sexist attacks", no media outlet reports it.
Why is this??
Once Bernie mentioned this in the debate, Michelle Cottle is trying to trivialize it and sweep it under the rug.
Why this double standard??
12
The NYTimes seems bent on propping up Mr. Bloomberg in spite of his seriously abysmal record with “stop and frisk.” The tactic is now backfiring with fury as the “emperor appears to have no clothes” when left to his own devices. Bloomberg is sucking all the air out of the room for other moderates in the race, including the candidates endorsed by the Times.
Favorability polls show that Bernie Sanders is one of the most well liked candidates running for President, so attempting to attack him based on his personality and health isn’t very effective. Neither is attacking his supporters. You seem to have forgotten that voters care about issues: health care, climate change, campaign finance, wealth inequality, access to education, and criminal justice reform.
9
If Mike Bloomberg was a piñata for the other candidates in the debate, I think it would be fair to say that Bernie Sanders is a piñata for the NYt editorial board, the opinion columnists and (less directly) for the news reporters - just as he was in 2016.
This piece is particularly egregious and petty.
I know that my sentiments are shared by many, many other readers of the NYT. I hope my comment will be published.
9
Why do we continue to call these uninformative, dysfunctional events "debates"?
5
Bloomberg looked like the only adult in a room of shouting, yelling and impatient kids.
He was restrained, perhaps bored, a little perturbed. Compared to the others, he was the only one who was presidential.
He made no gaffes, and his lines about Bernie being a socialist with three houses, and about Trump benefiting most from the other candidates' raucous backbiting were the best of the night.
In his first debate, with the other candidates eagerly prepared to pummel him, Bloomberg stood up to them and didn't even mention all the programs he funded to benefit minorities, stop gun violence or elect Democratic women to the House in 2016.
The media may like chaos, controversy, and drama, but most Americans, after 3 years of Trump, are tired of it..
Also, the Democratic nominee will have to be ready at the convention to launch a moral crusade against Trump. That will require a big organization and deep pockets. Bloomberg has both.
In a sense, Bloomberg is the lifeboat for the Democrats and the nation. If the other candidates are unable to get us safely to shore, meaning a clear consensus for a standard bearer, Bloomberg is there.
Unless Elizabeth Warren keeps punching holes in the boat. After deferring from negative comments in the previous debate, for the sake of unity and defeating Trump, she turned into a doberman last time out and bit everyone on the stage except Bernie.
Warren has the flickering intensity of a flame. Trust her? No way!
10
Daily Kos is gushing about how Warren "eviscerated" Bloomberg. Yes she just eviscerated the single largest donor to the 2018 Democratic mid-term candidates and basically told him he's not welcome in the Party. Following her lead, most of the rest eagerly piled on.
To what end? Was she advocating anything or just bringing a machine gun to the circular firing squad? As far as being a good debate foil to Donald Trump, who's to say he'll even bother to debate. And winning a debate is a far cry from winning a general election where there really aren't that many undecided voters. Just maybe voters undecided about whether there's anyone worth voting for after all the primary carnage.
It may just have been his ineptitude in this kind of exchange but it also seems a bit to Bloomberg's credit that he really didn't go on the attack against anyone but his perceived ultimate rival, Bernie.
7
Interesting article...
My take is:
Bernie, the Dem Socialist, has no chance to win PA, WI, FL and will destroy the downballot tickets across the country. Then his angry minions will not vote Democratic as they did to destroy Hillary in 2016.
Warren is too shrill, over the top, needn't have destroyed the 3 term mayor of NYC who had offered billions to help her party. Sorry, he is not Donald Trump. Warren seeks purity, surely a losing proposition.
It's Joe, if he has the strength and can muster the support. He can win the general and keep the house and give us a shot at the senate.
Mr. Bloomberg remains a sleeper at this point, I think.
5
This debate showed a bit of the ugly side of American politics, which is always there but candidates usually at least attempt to hide beneath a veneer of substance.
This time that veneer was thin enough to see through in many places. Elizabeth Warren's vicious attack on Mike Bloomberg right at the get-go was personal, not policy, and set the tone.
I remember from past campaigns ugly attack ads. It's a little early for that kind of venom to be spat, but we are starting to see that. And it's not pretty.
5
I really wonder what kind of person would want to be the President of the United States. Yes, they would be powerful...able to kill millions of people with the push of a button...but who really wants that?
1
I like Bernie and will gladly support him if nominated but my fear is this: What will Bernie's polling numbers look like once the Republican smear machine, Fox Propaganda and Trump start attacking him 24/7? In these past 6 years of the Sanders rise, he is the one candidate who has never been substantially attacked. Democrats are petrified to anger his supporters, and the Republicans do everything they can to keep him viable, knowing the mayhem that results on the Democratic side. I'm afraid this polling numbers vs Trump could change drastically once he is nominated - I hope I'm wrong.
1
Who are these people so put off by Mr. Sanders' tone and volume? Have you never talked to any old people from Brooklyn before?
31
As Will Rogers once quipped, "I am not a member of any ORGANIZED party — I am a Democrat."
("Ambassador of Good Will, Prince of Wit and Wisdom," 1935)
Alas, eighty-five years on, little has changed.
Sic transit gloria mundi — or at least the United States.
1
What would a Trump vs Bloomberg general election say about the Democratic Party and the United States of America?
Bloomberg and Trump have both donated millions of dollars to both political parties to insure they have the "influence" they need to get richer... their single-goal. They have both associated with the pedofile Jeff Epstein, along with Bill Clinton and many other "power brokers." They have both paid off women to be quiet about their "personality flaws" and they are both racists. So that would all be a wash.
Think about that!
5
REGISTERED DEMOCRAT:
I’m not a socialist! This is so crazy! Don’t Nominate Bernie!
2
I have a nasty suspicion, that the Chair of the DMV, Mr. Perez just could be having a distant relative receiving gifta, perhaps some stock tips from the highest places that could be getting that relative hundreds of millions in untraceable cash.
How in the world would he have organized a national event, where the Democratic candidates not only ripped into each other, but almost every statement they made was cut off, talked over by the moderator-- as if he or she were a disobedient child.
For a few bucks, a visual indicator could have provided a countdown of their time to speak, and they could have finished their statement retaining some respect. And no one bothered to check the mob that took over the audio the last minute of the debate, exacerbating the sense that the Democratic party, couldn't organize a debate, much less a government.
Some professional criteria could have facilitated a rational discussion, rather than than the childish reality show that brought into question the capacity of the Democratic party to run a government.
4
Voters need to know what winning looks like because unless you are pro-Sanders, you lost. So, It's time for Sander's to define how to win.
Winning is mobilizing people by a putting up a measurable goal that only together will be accomplished. Call for 75 million individual voters to vote for Democrats on all tickets across the US. All candidates couldn't do anything but to unify behind that goal.
Make progress visible every day so people see they are winning even if their candidate is not. That's what a leader does. It's bigger than "vote for me" and as the goal is being reached the vision will be clarified of what reaching the goal, winning together, will accomplish.
3
“the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency.” -- the doctors Trump found to support his 'oligarchic populist' campaign in 2015 (a campaign in which that particular individual racked up more factor-checker certified untruths than perhaps any individual elected since at least WWII).
"Bernie Sanders is more than able to deal with the stress and the vigor of being president of the United States -- the doctors Sanders found to support his fitness for his 'democratic socialist' campaign for the US presidency campaign in 2019.
Vigorous debates are what's supposed to happen and they rarely hurt a party in the general election. See: Republican primary, 2016.
One difference is that Republicans have winner-take-all primaries while Democrats apportion their delegates in each state. That is likely to result in a very fractured convention this summer which is where real damage to the party can be done. Sanders cannot rack up a majority of delegates by getting 25%-30% of the votes. Yet his backers will likely respond as they did 4 years ago if he does not get the nomination.
My issue with Sanders is how expects to accomplish his "revolution" without 60 Democratic senators and a majority in the House. It's virtually impossible.
1
According to Ms Cottle, "... when you combine shouty with defensive, the result is not so charming".
One wonders if she (rightfully) castigated those who accused Hillary of being too shrill.
Unfortunately, style over substance is a formidable driver in our political reality, even for those who fancy themselves above such considerations. And, objections to style always seem to be applied to those who are not our preferred candidate.
4
Dear Voters,
I noticed two things in particular during the debates that made up my mind on my pick for the primaries - 1st Sanders does not answer questions with information ever; he answers with shouting his stump pitch over and over. I came away knowing nothing more about his policies and plans and too much about his pride. I will not be voting for Mr. Sanders.
2nd, and most importantly from my point of view, I heard Elizabeth Warren make vital connections between our policies and their impacts on people of color. Over and over. With real insight and compassion and, of course, detailed solutions. The debate made up my mind - I will be voting for Senator Warren in the primaries and I very much hope she wins.
Sincerely, Jennifer Justice
3
Editorial board member Michelle Cottle writes: "Without Mr. Bloomberg, Mr. Sanders not only would have suffered more hits, but more people would have focused on how clumsily he handled those he did draw."
New York Times, this is not a middle school debate competition. This is not a reality TV show. This is a critical election about the candidate who will literally save American democracy from an emerging tyrant.
On the day that this oped came out about pinatas and hits, The Times reported that the president of the United States fired his director of national intelligence for revealing to Congress that Russia is working to get Trump reelected.
Our democracy is being destroyed by this elected dictator, but The Times is writing about pinatas?
Focus, New York Times. Focus!
6
Mayor Pete and Amy effectively took themselves out of the race by getting involved in a petty personality spat. It showed the worst of both of them. Perhaps that is what we need to winnow the field. Now if Joe would step down we could have a full debate.
4
I suggest for tuesday's debates, all microphones of the candidates are turned off. They are turned on for the candidate receiving the question from a moderator, and then turned off when the candidate's allotted time is up. Moderators can not control these candidates. Highly unlikely that a candidate is so unwise to scream into the audience over the microphones, but it would be interesting to see who displayed such bad judgement, like Trump would do. As it is, they all are disrespectful like Trump, except Bloomberg.
1
That debate was a colossal failure. As Scott Galloway noted on his podcast with Kara Swisher recently, “A bunch of whites people calling each other racists, mysoginists etc. That’s what will get us back in the White House.” The most beatable President in history, and perhaps one of the most needed to be ousted and they can’t pull it together. Incredibly frustrating. The hope now is that Bernie is so polarizing compared to Trump, the young progressive vote comes out in droves for Sanders.
Apparently, Bernie is Putin's candidate of choice too.
3
California primary is coming up soon. Though Bernie is currently in the lead, I hope that will change. I am a Democrat but capitalism is not gross and it is not evil. Those very feckless words came from Bernie's corroded mouth. Bernie is himself a millionaire, as Bloomberg pointed out in the debate. And no puckish retort ("you have more houses than I do!") from Bernie negates that fact. Bernie's campaign benefits from superpacs (dark money from undisclosed sources) who have violated campaign finance laws. These are the same laws that Bernie says he supports. Once again, no puckish retort ("well, so do the others!") negates the hypocrisy of Sanders and his infantile, self-centered supporters (hey Bernie bots - death threats, really? So you can forget being taken seriously.
Capitalism is what drives California's growth. And those same hard-working Californians pay some of the highest taxes to support public education, public housing, and public support. If CA goes for Bernie, I suspect this will be a rallying call for California's Republican movement which would sadden me.
1
@Be balanced
"Capitalism is what drives California's growth."
And what do the fires do to California's GDP numbers, which I assume -- Mr., Mrs., Miss, or Ms.'Be Balanced' -- you assume is all 'good capitalist growth"?
I think we need a mixed economy in which people like Mr. Sanders, who has fought politically long and hard to point out that socialistic capitalistic economies based on democratic socio-political principles are respected are more decently human than economies which produce world-beating incarceration rates like the US's, are cut a little slack from people who claim his campaign violates finance campaign laws.
That said, I'm hopeful Elizabeth Warren will win the nomination.
Following on from your "honking baseball bat" analysis, this summary piece is succinct brilliance!
I am a convert to you and.........
I'm over David Brooks (2016 Trump won't be the nominee...fast forward to today's headline "Bernie will be the nominee").
The desperation and panic of the Times editorial board grows daily-just like Bernie’s popularity among working class Americans.
In this attack piece Sanders is Trumpian! Geez.
While Bernie may lack the cunning and deceit of some other politicians, his integrity and singularity of purpose has been decades in the making. His platform resonates with much of the country.
He will beat Trump.
7
Exactly. Sanders is a shouting windbag that just utters truisms about the healthcare system et al. Realistic remedies to deal with the issues. Not so much.
4
"For those not so “comfortable” with Mr. Sanders’s Trumpian lack of transparency, the debate offered little reassurance."
Claiming that Mr. Sanders' perfectly understandable reluctance to release more than 'heart attack essentials' to 'Trumpian lack of transparency is like comparing a green pepper seed with a Zeppelin balloon.
2
As I listened to Elizabeth Warren and others attack each other, all I could think was: Hope Hicks and the Trump campaign team are collecting these clips to use against whoever the nominee is. I don't understand why these candidates don't realize that they are playing right into the hands of the enemy.
5
I will vote for Elizabeth Warren this time out, but I still strongly support Sanders, particularly from the inept attack on him by someone like Bloomberg the other night.
Sanders has written books that have sold well, not because he told about how he manipulated the system or exploited workers or gave other rich people a competitive advantage, but because he wants to improve the lives of all Americans.
That is, and always has been, his message for his entire career, and people bought his books to learn more about his beliefs.
If you sell enough books about something people care about, you too can become richer and buy a summer home. No one should hold that against Bernie Sanders.
8
I don;t understand why one of the candidates has not done the following: Bring out a blank application to join the Democratic Party of Vermont and ask Bernie Sanders to fill it in and sign it. He either would have to join or explicitly reject being a Democrat.
4
@TH
That shows the mess the DNC makes, perpetually. There was no reason why Hillary Clinton had to yell out about the 'the basket of despicables' among the voters, or collaps on camera entering an airplane against doctors advice. The DNC is just too sloppy.
Not to defend his policies or performance, but just really perplexed that Bloomberg decided to appear at the debate when he isn't even on the ballot in the Nevada caucuses. Seems like a strategic blunder - he could have waited until the field (maybe) got thinned out after both Nevada and South Carolina results. But I suspect Warren would still be around to scold him regardless.
In one important respect, the Democratic candidates’ treatment of Michael Bloomberg was disgraceful: they tried to hold Bloomberg *personally* responsible for the actions of all billionaires.
Bernie Sanders was especially offensive: he pointed out (correctly) the huge fraction of American wealth held by the top economic stratum, called it immoral (I agree), *but THEN* implied that Bloomberg held personal responsibility for the immorality.
What does he think Bloomberg should have done during his career? Not work as hard? As smart? Bloomberg replied (aptly) that Congress, not he, set the rules of the economic game, but his delivery was weak and thus was buried by the bombast of Sanders and other candidates. Evidently, delivery, not substance, was all-important.
There are good reasons for questioning Bloomberg’s fitness to lead our nation. But by questioning the mere fact of his wealth, the Democratic candidates demeaned themselves.
By the way, the man who arguably was America’s greatest president, Franklin Roosevelt, was a man of wealth, mostly inherited wealth. Democrats: think on that.
10
@Michael N. Alexander
Agree. Bloomberg missed his big chance to blame Bernie Sanders's tax code for the economic imbalance. It is the tax code that created the huge loop holes. Bloomberg lacked the fight. Too bad, he's a polished man, with some fight, he might be effective. But neither Clinton nor Obama had the fire in them, either.
1
@Michael N. Alexander
Great comment.
1
@Michael N. Alexander If you dig into the investments that Bloomberg and many of his fellow billionaires made their billions investing in companies and politicians that advocate for the systemic disenfranchisement of workers.
I don't think Bernie is saying Bloomberg coerced or physically threatened workers, just that the hundreds of millions of dollars that he has funneled into political campaigns advocating for lower wages and lower taxes for the ultra wealthy might have something to do with the HISTORIC income inequality in this country.
Furthermore, FDR was WIDELY regarded as a compete traitor to his class and a SOCIALIST(!!!!! remind you of somebody?). I would agree that outside of his internment of Japanese Americans, FDR is the greatest American president. He advocated for "big government / socialist policies" like social security and medicare that were EXTREMELY effective (elderly poverty rate plummeted) and are widely beloved today
3
Sanders is at times "not so charming" to Cottle and many others. But is this the reason he draws so much criticism of a non-substantive nature, or is it that the interests of the big media and those who write for them are not really aligned with his proposals?
5
I had one takeaway after watching this latest free-for-all: Trump's going to get another four years. All of the candidates spent more time shouting, talking over each other, and bashing each other than talking about their respective views on the issues voters care about. These so-called debates are counterproductive.
9
@Joyce K I totally agree with your opinion. They need to address the question, answer the question, and tell the voters their position on the problems facing this country. I turned off the debate because I was so disgusted with the way they were addressing each other. You don't become a winner by debasing all the other candidates. Their names and positions should not be mentioned. Talk about YOUR position and why you are the best candidate. I am sorely disappointed in our candidates.
4
Do you people think you could stop telling us who won the debate - just once?? Call me crazy, but I thought we, the American people, were supposed to be the judge of that.
For all your yak yak yak, it seems obvious to me that these debates have little or nothing to do with reality or with the job at hand. The president of the United States might debate members of his/her own party several times while running, but never as president. Never. So this is an irrelevant skill that tells us next to nothing about the candidate.
I would also add that, since Trump WILL NOT DEBATE this time around, who cares how well these guys do? Whether their defensive or insulting to each other, etc? Here is where Bloomberg has the best chance. It’s going to be all about advertising, since the chances of a face to face encounter with Trump are slim to none. Only Bloomberg can afford this! No one else. Period.
3
Let's face it: the candidates aside, the moderators did a terrible job of controlling the action. Warren had more memorable shouts than others because she was given the mike more often. And speaking of Mike, the moderators pretty much did him in by giving him few chances to talk. Following up on trivialities like not knowing the name of Mexico's president or slips of the tongue that occurred decades ago was ridiculous.
The emphasis should have been on what the candidates had to say about the future. Lester Holt and the other announcers fostered the piñata party, and the more brazen candidates were all too happy to join in. The debate was more about entertainment than substance.
9
@Robbbb
Agreed, 100%. You have hit upon the issue few seemed to have brought up: the moderators encouraged the personal gladiatorial combat, asked non-substantive questions, and seemed to value spectacle over substance. You are right that Bloomberg wasn't given proportionate time given how many times he was attacked, and I came away with the impression it because the unspoke attitude "he's a billionaire, and doesn't deserve the same amount of consideration."
6
We ate a nation of amnesiacs, mainly due to our addiction to electronics. The Republican debates and primaries four years ago were at least as caustic, divisive and nasty. And we all know how that turned out. Or do we? It appears that most of us have forgotten.
Ms. Cottle, like so many others, bemoans the nature of the campaign and then fuels it with this kind of rhetoric:
"The nominee needs not only to be able to throw a punch, he or she needs to be able to take one."
They are not boxing, they don't throw punches, and the hyping of politics by using boxing metaphors is part of the problem.
Someone writing for the Times shouldn't have to resort to such trite contrivances.
4
Thank you, Ms. Cottle, for telling it like it really is. Bernie deserved to be attacked, as he was.
Will it matter? I don't think so.
It makes sense to me that some of Bernie's followers are no smarter than some who make up the base of our current criminal excuse for a president.
At least Bernie's no crook.
3
I recall a candidate in 2016 who was "shouty" and attacked his opponents in debates, and only had a plurality of support from an enthusiastic base during the primary...didn't that guy win the general election?
6
"chronic crabbiness",
"shouty",
"Trumpian lack of transparency",
"the vitriolic slice of supporters known as Bernie Bros"...
Your critique of Sen Sanders neglected to include "socialist", "communist", and "angry, old white man".
but:
"This is not to pick on Mr. Sanders alone"
If your going to use pejoratives, be thorough and complete, but we've heard them all before, and it's getting stale.
Nothing is mentioned about the vitriolic slice of pundits known as op-ed writers, and media personalities such as
Chris Matthews, and Chuck 'brown shirt' Todd.
4
Ms. Cottle is merely parroting the HRC victim caucus line. I was a Dallas County elected official in 2008 who had the temerity to openly support Barack Obama. HIllary's supporters were no less vicious than Bernie's are today. No invective was left unsaid, no insinuation too vile. Her campaign filed over 500 challenges of African American delegates to a local democratic party convention in order to unseat them, using a gay, Latino ex-felon to file them. HRC's Texas campaign used the rankest of racism for the sake of a single delegate. The Bernie Bros myth is just sour grapes from sour people.
5
Be patient. One charlatan at a time.
Why do the proponents of “moderation” always forget that moderate and very highly qualified Hillary Clinton lost to Donald Trump?
5
@JM
First, Clinton won the majority of votes.
Second, Sanders got a lot of help, including some from the Russians.
2
People get shot up in an El Paso Walmart by a trump supporter who cites trump’s rants about Mexican immigrants but no opinion columns about that “harassment.” It’s much simpler for the NYT’s columnists to continually beat up on Bernie Sanders and his supporters in two opinion pieces a day.
Meanwhile, corrupt politicians, conmen and other trump friends receive a get out of jail bonus or pardon due to Fox, Giuliani and wealthy donors’ influence. Four Assistant US Attorneys resign from the Barr/Trump justice department when the corrupt Roger Stone’s sentence for 7 felony convictions gets cut from 7 to 9 years to 40 months after disparaging tweets from trump about their DOJ sentence recommendation, the federal judge in the trial and the jury. He then fires the Acting Chief of Intelligence when the Intelligence Agencies, 17 in all, report Putin is determined to keep interfering in the 2020 election, replacing him with a new Acting Chief of Intelligence, a politically appointed ambassador to Germany, who has no prior experience in Intelligence.
How about some opinion pieces on any of these other minor issues going on in this circus. I’m sick of hearing about how much every columnist dislikes Bernie Sanders.
5
The real culprit for the circular firing squad is Perez. He will have accomplished more for trump than the rnc
5
"This is not to pick on Mr. Sanders alone." The writer proclaims after spending a significant portion of the article regurgitating multiple anti-Sanders establishment Democratic Party talking points. Why not just admit that you don't like Bernie and stop trying to pretend that you are being objective? One thing that Bernie possesses is authenticity - which is seriously lacking in this opinion piece.
5
@Impedimentus
Bernie doesn't exactly possess "authenticity". What he actually possesses is the appearance of authenticity.
(Yelling and screaming for the past 40 years about the same old stuff is not necessarily authenticity.)
1
When the dust settles Bernie will have quite a resume... delivering Trump twice, in 2016 and next in 2020. Do you feel the Bern?
3
So funny watching these folks go after each other.
1
Is it really visionary for a person to stick to the same schtick for more than 40 years?? And have nothing to show for it in Congress?
Whenever I listen to him, I'm back in high school, protesting against the war, shouting "welfare capitalism for the rich, free enterprise for the poor" and "the center cannot hold."
What saddens me is how ill-educated his young supporters appear to be, ignorant of their own political history, and what's possible and what is not.
Now that the Russians are back in the game, and Trump has appointed a national security ignoramus to run the whole shebang, it's time to really examine Sanders again.
It's not just his heart or his health, which to me disqualifies him immediately. What would happen if he got the nomination and then died on the campaign trail???
He is so vulnerable to Russian attack, disinformation, and destruction he simply isn't worth the risk. The subject of his religious background has never come up, but it must. Between Russian adeptness at exploiting anti-Semitism, and Trump's support of white nationalists and neo-Nazis, his Jewish background has to be talked about, no matter how secular he is.
With his support of BDS, he'll send the Jewish vote running to Trump.
Then there's the trouble with his wife Jane and some scandal about a college, that no one seems to be able to explain, or perhaps even bother to explain. She's ripe for attack, too.
He is a landslide loss in the making. Wake up, Dems.
7
@history lesson
Too bad. You had me until his Jewish background. Then you totally lost it. Americans are bigger then to judge a person based on his background. For me, personally, I see his Jewish background as a plus. Have always seen positive things from that background in my life time. But I judge the person only, I owe my one vote that honesty.
Bernie's communist views I find undesirable, and his shouting and finger pointing.
Listening to the latest debate made me feel like I did as a kid when I heard the blessedly-rare fight between my parents, when they devolved into yelling, name-calling, accusing, and recalling every past mistake. Why are they so angry? Are we going to be okay?
1
A couple of question:
Why do we need full medical records to be made public? Why aren't the letters from Sanders' doctors sufficient? Are we as a public medically sophisticated enough to make our own judgments from pages and pages of medical jargon?
Why should Bloomberg release women from their NDAs on national TV? The NDAs are as binding on him as they are the other parties, and he can't release the latter without legal consultation with them, correct? Is there an automatic presumption of his guilt of he doesn't release the women from their NDAs?
4
@Steve Waugh
If you think that the NDA's are protecting the women from harmful disclosure, then, I've got this bridge in Brooklyn.......
The NDA's are the condition under which the women accepted the financial settlement offered by Bloomberg, keeping the details of their complaints from public disclosure. Releasing them from its conditions does not force them to discuss those details, it only gives them permission to do so.
An automatic presumption of guilt? To be fair, maybe not, but certainly worthy of public discussion relating to a man who is capable of pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into a media blitz of self serving propaganda attempting to convince us all of his sterling character.
@Steve Waugh: He can say that he is releasing them from their NDAs without giving any details about the situation with the women. All he is doing is giving them the ability to talk -- the ability that he initially took away from them in exchange for cash.
Whether or not someone released from an NDA wants to talk is up to them.
It is suspicious that Bloomberg doesn't want these women to talk.
1
Obama was right to warn about a circular firing squad. Trump won the debate, just as he did the Republican debates in 2016 when his opponents fragmented his opposition. At this rate Sanders is going to win the nomination by default, which would be the ideal result for Trump.
2
Bernie is going to make a great president! He is going to loosen the stranglehold big money has on the Democratic Party, fight for the common man, take desperately needed steps in the battle against climate change, provide a new moral leadership, appoint an AMAZING Cabinet and restore statesmanship to our foreign dealings. Oh, yeah, and in terms of taxation and benefits, he will reward labor more than capital. I think Michelle Cottle will be quite impressed with his accomplishments.
5
@Milton Whaley
Those are all tasks for the legislature. Bernie Sanders has not distinguished himself there. Except, he let it slip in a prior debate that he wrote the tax code, that now he blames the 'billionaire class' for exploiting.
1
Warren acquitted herself well in the Las Vegas debate. She was absolutely right to question Bloomberg's many NDAs, which he claimed women employees signed "consenually" over a joke he told that they didn't like.
Warren, along with Biden and Sanders, rightly questioned Bloomberg's racist "stop and frisk", his support of redlining and his surveillance of Muslims without a warrant.
One of Bloomberg's few responses, aimed at Sanders, called him a Communist. This is straight out of the Republican playbook.
It's wrong, but a scary word to voters who do not know what Democratic Socialism is.
Democratic Socialism is a form of democratic government used in the EU and Canada. Representatives are elected, as they are in the U.S.
Capitalism is very much alive and well in the EU and Canada, with the EU being the 3rd richest trading bloc in the world. Bloomberg wrongly claimed that under Sanders, Capitalism would disappear--another Republican talking point.
Taxes are somewhat higher in the EU and Canada, not egregious. The free healthcare and higher education in retutn make life much less stressful.
Trump will hurl the words "Communist" and "Socialist" at his competitor. It would be good if news articles would explain "Democratic Socialism" to readers, to inoculate them from Trump's scare tactics.
5
A ferocious Democrat scrum has left the Party undone. This episode of excess was exceptional for its error in judgement by all participants in this caged match of evisceration taking down all contenders. Mayor Piñata, after coming apart at the seam, had enough ammo left to fire off one shot hitting the mark and unmasking all wealthy pretenders as non-members of the proletariat. This salvo, aimed directly at Sanders will have a damaging ripple effect impacting the Sanders three domicile and counting charade, challenging his constant ranting authenticity, in addition to the other sad pretenders, leaving pauper Buttigieg as the lone rider of the non-millionaire bus heading for the next wrestle-mania smackdown.
1
@Grant: I didn't think Sanders' "three houses" was a big deal. I mean, he has his first home, where he has lived for a long time in Burlington. He has a second home in Washington, D.C, because that's where he works a good part of the time.
It seems if anyone needs a second home, it's a representative to the federal government.
His third home, as I understand it, is a summer cottage. I grew up in New England. This is not a super uncommon thing here. It's not a condo in NYC or Miami or something.
And being a "millionaire" in your 70s. You pretty much have to be if you want to have any hope of ever retiring. And a working professional who's had employer-sponsored health-care for most of their career and good savings habits will likely end up with at least one million dollars by the time they hit "peak wealth", which is right around in their 70s.
Keep in mind also that many people retire at 66 or 70 -- so the fact that Sanders is still working at 77 means he has more working years during which to accrue wealth -- and isn't spending it down in retirement.
This is no way puts him in the league of a billionaire. Not by a long shot.
2
Unfortunately for America, Bernie Sanders is the equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn, England’s leader of the Labour Party. Their proposed policies regarding the role of government are pretty much the same.
Neither individual is electable. The broad swath of ‘average voters’ will simply not vote for radical change. Corbyn had a golden opportunity to win England’s most recent election where Brexit was the dominant issue. Jeremy failed miserably. Bernie will do the same.
7
The Democratic candidates worked hard to show the citizens how much they disliked each other. They even implied that the citizens must share this dislike too. Way to go, Democrats!
2
A lot of people aren't saying. Joseph Maguire, the outgoing acting director of national intelligence, briefed Congress about Russian attempts to reelect Trump on February 13th. The New York Times just reported on it yesterday. Sanders is not asserting wild conspiracy theories. Russia is out to sow divisiveness among Democrats. You don't think some portion of offensive online commentators are part of this effort? Give me a break.
That the administration expressed outrage over Maguire's briefing suggests Sanders accusations are only more true than you realize.
2
Sanders is the anti-Trump --- and that's a problem. His rise is symptomatic of a system that is sick and has been gerrymandered and single-party-primary-ed to death. The fringes have taken over the system and there's seemingly no way out. Bernie is too old, appeals to the far left of the spectrum, and no one that isn't a Bernie Bro knows anything about him, except that he, too, wants to stick it to The Man, but in a different way. The swing voter is a myth. It's all about turnout at this point. Whichever side turns out the most voters wins. Sanders could very well be our next President, but few will be excited about it and he's not going to unite anybody. He's not the transformative political figure this nation needs. We need somebody that can talk the nation off the cliff. That figure can no longer capture his/her party's nomination.
3
Grateful?
I don't think people get it. Sure, giving Sanders a pass might allow Warren et al to lose, but really, who loses if Bloomberg wins the nomination? Or if candidates don't prove they can whoop on an old, sexist plutocrat?
This is the politics equivalent of rooting for your rival to win their bowl game. Sure you dislike your rival, but them winning is BETTER than some snobby team from the next state over getting the win.
Unfortunately Democrats have not yet been informed that Bernie Sanders supported totalitarian socialist regimes around the world.
While he today describes himself as a democratic socialist the New York Times has documented his fulsome support for the totalitarian Castro regime in Cuba, in Nicaragua, and even in the Soviet Union, where he honeymooned before the collapse of the Soviet Union. If Democrats nominate Bernie for President, the GOP will of course publicize his endorsement of totalitarian socialism. The result is likely to be a huge GOP landslide in November, and disaster for the Democratic Party.
4
@David
Do you have documentary proof that Bernie Sanders honeymooned in the SU? Does he admit that himself? Do you have a link to a credible source?
These “debates” are nothing more than candy for the Reality Show nation. Performance art. There is no debating when it’s merely shouting and finger pointing and zingers. In the next few years I expect the Dancing With The Stars version. “Will Pete be able to master the Dab?”
5
I would like the next moderator to ask "If you were picking the people on this stage to be your cabinet, eliminating the possibility that one might be the vice-president, who would you put in which position and why?" That would force a more positive exchange and a different view of the candidates. People are sick of the circular firing squad. These are all accomplished people.
3
Yesterday I wrote, as a joke, ""Biden Soars in Debate as Others Attack Bloomberg!" HAHA"
Biden? Sanaders? What's the difference. Point being, so what! What am I getting? Running commentary on a sporting event with no analysis of the actual behavior or thought of what is gonna happen in the next move, never mind the cumulative affects of what I consider farcical events (they are not debates)? Wow, won't it be interesting to see who the mob picks for the next weak one of the herd? This time it was attack the new guy. Isn't that how many treat immigrants?
We called the Republican debates, four years ago, a circus, among other things, and now we have a Democratic circus.
Can we look more than one move/square on the board ahead?
Signed: Affectionately, Ubu Roi
No matter what you think of Bernie Sanders, comparing him to Trump is utterly irresponsible.
4
The majority of Democrats who elected Secretary Clinton as the 2016 Presidential Nominee still remember how Bernie Sanders complained about every time he lost, according to the rules of a party he never joined before.
He reneged on his claim to do everything in his power to stop Donald Trump from occupying the White House, despite a decisive 3 million popular vote loss to Clinton.
His ego would not allow him to fight for the country, the larger good. He was Russia's useful idiot that allowed Trump to fracture the majority opposition.
Now, the millionaire socialist all of a sudden believes in the rules he criticized before. He knows at best he will win a minority of Democrats, and lose the general election to Trump.
Sanders supporters are as bad as Trump Potemkin village support on Twitter. Any constructive candidate would stop the Bernie Bros in their tracts. Bernie won't.
The majority of the Democratic Party, as well as Independents and frustrated Republicans, do not support Sanders' inflexible commandments as policies.
He is fine being a millionaire, but thinks being a billionaire is immoral.
Right, how do you support that?
He believes Medicare for All is the only solution for universal health care, even though the public wants choice.
He thinks the minimum wage is the answer to raising income, completely missing the impact on job loss from automation.
He is against trade agreements, despite the fact 7 billion customers sit outside our borders.
Yikes!
3
Sanders has released 3 different pages of signed doctors reports. It is typical of what every other candidate releases. If you or anyone else really cares, here is a physician's diagnosis from what can be gleamed from the info given. (It is quite a lot by the way.) https://twitter.com/guek_jc/status/1212062702597623808 https://twitter.com/guek_jc/status/1212486546412072960
Things I find interesting about this whole "Bernie's medical records" hysteria: every doctor I've seen comment on the letters have said there's more than enough info there to determine his health and that he's healthy.
It's those looking for an advantage and our media hyping the latest to get clicks and eyes, who are demanding records. Attempting to find a cudgel to beat with. Like mangy dogs with an old bone hoping for something, but in actuality they just like gnawing a bone till the next something comes along.
A "long form medical record" is a nonsensical concept, and that -per several doctors- what sanders has ALREADY RELEASED is well in excess of what is considered reasonable already!
6
"He then suggested that it wasn’t his real supporters behaving badly, but maybe Russian bots. “I’m not saying that’s happening, but it would not shock me.” Or as a certain president might put it, 'A lot of people are saying. …'"
I'm sorry, but did the New York Times not run a story detailing how the Russians are already actively interfering with our 2020 elections? I'm sorry Michelle, but if Bernie is lying then the NYT is too.
Furthermore, this notion that a leader has to be accountable for the language of every single one of his alleged online supporters is actually preposterous. Every time a story about "Bernie Bros" is published, the author never includes any sort of data showing that his supporters are any worse than any of the other candidates.
I'm sorry, but Pete and all of the pundit's need to start showing some cold hard evidence that Bernie supporters are in fact "especially toxic".
In my own personal experience, i've had great interactions with supporters of every campaign and poor ones as well.
Instead of attacking the Senator himself, his opponents have taken to attacking his supporters. To be totally frank, it seems quite desperate to me.
6
"For those not so “comfortable” with Mr. Sanders’s Trumpian lack of transparency, the debate offered little reassurance."
You had me till "Trumpian." You can criticize Sanders all you want, at times, deservedly so, bur there is nothing "Trumpian" about Sanders. Come on, have some hindrance.
3
Suggestion: Zooey Deschanel shoot Mr. Bloomberg with her Point of View Gun (from Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy). You can guess the effect on Mr. Bloomberg's personality, i.e., adopting Zooey's point of view. But of one effect I am certain: in the next debate Mr. Bloomberg will resemble Tom Selleck.
One again the Democratic Party brings out the circular firing squad in full view of the debate cameras as the dead and wounded litter the stage. Reagan once said words to the effect of; never speak ill of another Republican. The Democrats much to their everlasting discredit adopt the opposite self destructive strategy.
For a Party that has so many bright people, they sure do some very dumb things.
4
I can’t vote for Sanders or Trump. I’ll be writing in Amy,s name no matter what.
2
I'm so confused at this point that I wondered if was possible to turn Citizens United upside down and present a corporation as a candidate? Say we incorporate the Democratic Candidate so that a corporate representative would have responsibilities for 1) debating (Warren), 2) passionately describing injustices and ideal world remedies (Warren and Sanders) 3) implementing those ideal remedies (Bloomberg (with tight HR control) and 4) community outreach (all others) to explain why some things can and cannot be achieved. Just a thought. I'm at a loss.
I felt like I wasted two hours of my time watching the Democratic Presidential Debate Wednesday night. It matters little to me if Senator Klobuchar knows the president of Mexico's name, that Senator Sanders is a millionaire with has three homes and Mayor Bloomberg is remorseful about stop and frisk which affected only NYC many years ago. I want to know in detail their individual platforms on universal health care, infrastructure and the environment. What I got was a nonsensical side show and a headache.
7
No one is attracted to Sanders because he is an orator. Eloquence belongs to others, like Adam Schiff. Most would readily admit that Sanders does shout during debates - to be heard. No, it is what he is saying, not how he is saying it that counts. His campaign is about the message, not the messenger. It is not focus group tested or rehearsed in front of a mirror (I’m looking at you, Peter.) Instead, it is sincere.
Sanders special appeal to voters is his honesty, genuineness, and compassion. Not even most of his non-supporters disagrees with that.
Don’t minimize the power of message because you find the messenger lacking in subtlety and grace. It is substance we hunger for.
3
@nora m
"Don’t minimize the power of message because you find the messenger lacking in subtlety and grace. It is substance we hunger for"
Right.
So when our President talks about how well the economy is doing, how he is trying to tackle the issue of immigration, dealing with unbalanced trade policies and trying to work with foreign powers.....will you say the same??
Of course not - because he is Trump. And for no other reason.
Disingenuous, to say the least.
3
Sanders won the primary elections in the rust belt swing states in 2016. He consistently polls well against Trump. I just don’t think the party establishment and media establishment understand the heartland. People are hurting economically and they know the system isn’t fair.
Sanders did a great job of explaining how what we have now is “socialism” for the wealthy—regressive taxes, starvation wages, ruination of the environment, and cuts in funding for education and job training. Ordinary Americans are—and should be—furious. When they hear the Republicans plan to cut Social Security and Medicaid they will be ready to spit.
Yes, I wish Bernie weren’t so shouty. I wish he were younger, but his stamina is the proof of his health and vigor. I like Warren’s ideas very much, but I find Bernie’s explanations clearer and more straightforward.
To the Voters: Vote blue no matter who.
To the Establishment: Play fair and listen to the voters.
4
There is a lot of passion and energy behind the Sanders campaign - both positive and negative....the young people are largely flocking to his message (but will they show up to vote?) His policies, while not well fleshed out beyond the repetition they have enjoyed for decades, do appeal to the many disenfranchised, and working poor left behind since the Reagan years. The negative is the fear that his candidacy will not get the support it needs from the 70% of voters who are looking at the rest of the field and not at him. It also entails the distinct possibility that those who are not keen on his "socialist lite" policies will vote Republicans to Congress to counter his more liberal ideas which will result in either: 1)Sanders as president with a Congress that will block EVERYTHING, making him a disappointment that will disillusion his voters from ever voting again or 2)Trump gets re-elected with a GOP majority that will give him the power to effectively destroy not just the environment, our institutions, our democracy but any chance for progress anytime in the future. They may well give him the power of autocracy, their sycophancy is so complete.
Any of the other candidates--if they can survive and garner support to win the nomination over Sanders--could conceivably create a bridge to the future that Sander's supporters crave. Demographics will soon enough change the balance of power--if we can just avoid another Trump term to consolidate his regressive agenda.
1
I believe Sanders can win a National election. That being said, He will never win, and have any power because the down ballot will be handily beaten. For the first time since Reagan captured the center for the Republican Party, it is finally for the taking in 2020 but we have a Bernie Sanders to contend with.
The problem for Sanders is the right has done a really great job at making the government ineffective for the people and then blaming it for their problems. Sanders rightly so, realizes that only government can stand up to the principalities and powers that control those levers.
Bernie; the sad truth is the rich and powerful aren’t going to pay for your Revolution and neither are those that can’t even help themselves. It will be the middle class and working poor. Guaranteed!!
I wanted Warren but I’ll settle for a Bloomberg backed Klobuchar, or even Bloomberg himself. We can’t let this presidential race slip into the hypothetical or idealistic when a very real threat is in the White House. A threat that a large amount of Americans don’t even perceive and or don’t care about.
1
The real winner, besides Trump, was the media. The last "debate" like the previous ones as others commenting here have observed, was structured to be like a reality TV show.
The moderators asked questions designed not to enlighten viewers on the candidates' stances re: serious policy issues (endless war in Afghanistan, U.S.-Iran relations, Israel-Palestine conflict, climate change, gun control, corruption in government)--- but to elicit ad hominem attacks.
The resulting verbal slug fest, complete with sports arena-like cheers and boos from the audience, boosts ratings and advertising revenue. And the candidates play along. Why? They could just as easily boycott these events as Trump is reportedly planning to do and insist that they will only participate in town-hall formats that promote civil discourse and an enlightened and informed electorate.
It's time that We the People let the media and the campaigns know that we demand nothing less. Our democracy literally hangs in the balance. This is no time for business as usual, i.e., politics as entertainment.
4
Mr. Bloomberg should take the high road, just as Mr. Sanders, especially, has taken the low road, identifying our “enemies” as rich people. Mr. Bloomberg should defend capitalism, the heart of which is market-tested innovation, as his own career exemplifies. He needs an honest message, not just money. Be honest.
The great majority of us Americans will listen.
I’m not a Bloomberg supporter. I’m an independent, leaning strongly left, for the liberty of all persons, not what is euphemistically called “progressive government” (a non-sequitur, if there ever was one) who remains very much undecided.
3
It’s about time that Obama step in and elevate someone above Sanders who can’t be allowed to win.
1
Why are journalists so dismissive of the idea that "bernie bros" could be a creation of those who want to see Bernie lose? What goes on on Twitter seems to be an obsession of those who think Twitter matters that much. I know very few people who are on twitter. It is the preferred medium of bigots and dimwitted people; people whose thoughts do not exceed 240 characters.
4
I like Bernie and his vision of a more just America, but I can’t support him because he will lose the election. If becomes our candidate, the Republican propaganda machine will eviscerate him, not for what Bernie is advocating, but for his past. They will press the fear button and Americans will believe he is a radical communist/socialist. And they have a lot of ammunition. The ammunition? Bernie was a member of a radical Marxist-Leninist group in the late 70’s. They justified the Iranian hostage episode because the hostages were spies; he had a Soviet flag hanging on the wall in his office when he was a mayor; he repeatedly praised the U.S.S.R (and honeymooned there); he praised Castro and Latin American autocrats. What I think of this is irrelevant, but most Americans will recoil in horror. Fear is our most powerful emotion, and that is why propaganda works.
5
The Democrats know how to lose an election before it occurs. The 2014 and 2016 elections were a disaster for the party. This slate of candidates does not excite the electorate. Senators do not have administrative experience. Sanders and Warren may appeal to the left wing of the party but not to the moderates. One could criticize Bloomberg for stop and frisk and his non disclosure forms but he was regarded as the best mayor by Ed Koch. The debate did not focus on Trump's failures but instead attacks between the candidates. They lost a golden opportunity to slam Trump.
6
Why is it that Democrats in the running fear Bernie Sanders? He may be the only one who could beat Trump because he is not a business Democrat. Socialism? I'll take it because it will stand for something and not those Democrats who are tied to corporate America. And by the way, there are far too many Democrats who see themselves as guardians of Big Business and not of the working people. If Bernie isn't the one the party picks, bet on Trump because the rest of the gang looks pretty sad.
4
Do you want to guarantee another four years of Trump? Nominate Bernie.
While the Democratic candidates piled on top of Bloomberg, Bernie Sanders got off, scot free. I am worried about his health, and the public has the right to see his medical records, not just the vague summaries his campaign released. Bernie will get crucified in the general election because the American public is not ready for him.
8
In the beginning I thought Andrew Yang was a looser and later I was thrilled by Bloomberg. But on a lark listened to Yang and he persuaded me. Trump is not the problem Trump is the symptom. I bought his books and donated $600. I Am listening to Mr Bloomberg I am growing despondent. I think he might think he is better than us. He can’t release his taxes because he doesn’t use turbo tax — like peons do. He’s not like the rest of us. Women didn’t get his jokes. Bloomberg can run all the Tv ads he wants. But If he gets the nomination he may not beat Trump; Bloomy can’t seem connect with ppl.
6
@Hopeful: There are a large number of middle-class, republican women who are tired of tRump and would vote for a moderate Democrat. Bloomberg would be that person. The goal IS to get rid of tRump.
1
This was the first debate I watched and it drove me to drink. However, if I'd been playing a game in which I took a swig at each mention of "Trump" I would have ended the evening cold sober.
9
If Bernie Sanders is nominated Donald Trump will get a second term. The DNC needs to get the candidates to move past health care and address the real issues of jobs and income inequality.
4
What we need is a message of unity. A uniter, not a divider. Amy Klobuchar has that message. Bloomberg's presence on the stage was a distraction last time, but next time she should focus on putting her message front and center
3
My compliments on the article.
The debate really showcased the differences of the candidates, but in an unfavorable light. Pete Buttegieg being the most articulate, and clearly the one able to handle what's coming his way, like a lieutenant in a combat squad. But, his appearance is that of a young man. In a photo of the G20 heads of state he's gonna look like the bar tender, front row center. Bernie Sanders at least will look like the choir director, standing in front waving his arms and pointing here there everywhere.
3
Yes, one would hope Sanders would produce his medical records but unless he has dementia or a major mental disorder that would impair his judgment as president, these seem like a side issue. If JFK's doctors had even told half the truth about his health he'd never have been president.
And to compare letters from Sanders' doctors to the one from Trump's doctor who himself said it was a joke and the quality of the doctors who wrote his and Trump's, is ludicrous. Sanders's docs are well respected; Trump's is considered a clown.
As to transparency, I'm still wondering how it is that apparently that Bloomberg still has yet to file his 2018 taxes as he says that his taxes are still being prepared. I don't expect him to have his 2019 returns available yet but 2018? Perhaps as president he'll rule that we all can file our returns whenever we want to. I'll vote for that.
I challenge anybody to explain how health records could be more important than tax records. The first would provide little insight to how the person might govern while the second might give a whole lot of answers such as if someone has a lot of investments in the fossil fuel industries.
As to the Culinary Workers Union, it was its leaders who criticized Medicare for All. From what I've heard, many of its rank and file members are for Sanders.
4
Ignoring Bernie to pummel Bloomberg was the only reasonable strategy for everyone else. Bernie can be gotten later, but the debates are the only way to counter the cash pile and the brainwashing it buys before super Tuesday.
1
Ah yes, we know there are many people who don't want anything "drawing blows away from the Vermont senator."
For them, it isn't about defeating the excesses of our elites, it is about defending those excesses.
They want to get rid of Trump, sure, but they don't really want to get rid of what he defends.
They just want someone else to defend it, in ways not so blatant, without the craziness of Trump.
They certainly don't want "the Vermont senator." He is a threat to their money. So is Warren.
3
It seems like the Democratic Party is up for sale...
to a billionaire jerk who is dumb enough to believe that ending redlining caused the Great Recession.
If the Democratic Part at the national level is
that vacuous, that devoid of principles...
then there is no reason to be a Democrat.
Four more years of Trump might give the Democrats time to do more soul searching about why they are losers.
The Establishment Democrats spent more time blaming then understanding... and it shows.
I support Sanders, and I've always wondered,
if Sanders wins, would the Establishment immediately blame the Russians and try to impeach him... ?
There are polls that show Sanders could have beaten Trump in 2016, and I suspect that the hysteria over electability is somewhat a cover for fear of a Sanders presidency by the warmongering, Wall Street supporting, status quo protecting Establishment.
More than ever, the decency, integrity and moral vision sustained by the bold ideas and courage of Sanders is what America needs.
And it is not that I expect miraculous change from a Sanders administration...
but the tone will change, and, hopeful the trajectory of
policies and legislation will change towards less militarism, more equality of opportunity and more justice.
If the best Democrats can do is sell Democracy to the highest bidder, they will not get my vote.
2
@Lucy Cooke
Another person who will guarantee four (?) more years of Trump. You're right about one thing though: the tone would definitely change if Bernie were elected. It would get much louder. Seeing him "perform" reminds me of Jim Jordan and Doug Collins during the impeachment hearings. Yelling, talking over people, not letting anyone get a word in was apparently intended to make them look smart and right. The effect was just the opposite.
Pathetic. That describes the debate, the overall haplessness of the Democratic Party, and the divided nature of our democracy. The Democrats insist on bringing a butter knife to all of their inter and intra party battles.
The answer to Trump and his hypnotized followers may not be the election though I remain hopeful. What may be needed is a peaceful social uprising much as was seen in the 60's led by Martin Luther King. Our country is disintegrating right in front of us. I knew Donald Trump was and is a clear and present danger to our country since the first day he assumed the presidency. I also knew Mitch McConnell will always put party before country. The surprise has been Trump's ability to twist the arms of an entire Republican Senate.
5
No one should be surprised about the rise of Bernie Sanders. People like political theater. People like anger. People like those leaders who are aggressive and mirror their grievances. Oh - except for women candidates. They cannot be too angry, too shrill, too hectoring, too (insert any sexist term you like).
But we are living in a time when men who express anger and mirror the most extreme views of their base remove all the oxygen from the room. It is all about them.
Whether they are Trump or Bernie supporters, both these groups of voters are looking for a savior. They don't want reason. They don't want plans that are thoughtful and considered - be they health care plans, job retraining plans, or programs to tackle climate change.
These voters will listen to any myth their "leader" tells them. Trump voters love that he tells them that this country is more respected than it was when he took office. A sick lie, but they love to hear it.
Bernie's base loves to hear all about free college and Medicare for all, and don't have the slightest concern that he hasn't explained how any of this will come to pass.
So for voters in both groups, as long as their "leaders" say what they want to hear, they're happy.
I've been a lifelong Democrat. Bernie isn't my first choice. He isn't my last, either. But he and his rabid base need to understand that if he loses in November, it's all on them. On their empty rhetoric, on their selfishness, on their refusal to compromise. No excuses.
8
I'm disappointed that so many Times' columnists criticized Klobuchar for being "visibly miffed" and angry. Darn those women; can't they control their emotions like Mayor Pete, who took a gratuitous poke at Klobuchar for forgetting the name of the Mexican President, then tried to make it into a world crisis, and then acted all offended when Amy justifiably pushed back.
I should just let this go, but Klobuchar's candidacy is on the verge of greatness or a crash landing, and for seasoned political writers to demean her for being visibly miffed is absurd and unfair.
Bernie is visibly miffed 24/7 yet I don't read any criticisms of his emotional state, other than "it's just Bernie being Bernie."
9
I couldn’t have seen it more differently. It was a contentious debate all around. Forgetting the name of the president of Mexico is no little thing, in my opinion, for a U.S. senator running for president, one who makes a big deal about being “in the arena.” I found nothing Buttigieg’s charge tough but entirely fair. On the other hand, Klobuchar’s “Are you trying to say that I’m dumb” line came across as a top-quick, too-rehearsed effort to play the gender card. I think the “miffed” description is too mild; petulant might be more apt. Klobuchar has had a lot of good moments in the debates and received due credit for them. This was not one of them.
2
The overall debate was pathetic and wasn't helped by the moderators who let it get completely out of control. A debate should involve thoughtful responses moderated by a panel that cares enough about the process to control it. If you like reality T.V. you probably loved last night's debate. While Mr. Bloomberg looked dignified and serious, his opponents looked like a pack of vindictive children. Sanders and Warren rehashed the same tedious talking points while raging against the rich. Did anyone learn anything new? And Buttigieg was totally obnoxious with his smug and self-righteous attitude. Although Bloomberg had his hand up numerous times, he was totally ignored in favor of those with the biggest mouths.
Heaven help us if Sanders gets the nomination. He's proven that his expertise lies in ranting and excoriating his opponents as he pitches the rich against the poor. Ironically, he's more like Trump than any of the other candidates. His is the politics of division and just like Trump, he has a cult like following. If he becomes president, we'll all have whip lash!
6
@Patricia: Everything you said ^. Thank you. I agree...and it is sad.
This nonsense about Bernie being soft on negative behavior is starting to grate on me. Every time he has been asked, he has condemned toxicity, including this debate. If holding him personally responsible for every mean thing a stranger says on Twitter is all his opponent's have, then it's obvious why he's the front-runner.
6
I found the Democratic debate discouraging. Similar to a WWF wrestling match, being goaded on by the moderators, and cheers when one candidate drew "blood" from another.
The Democratic contenders for the nomination should be presenting, and contrasting their platforms, in a positive way, not this depressing cat fight. These aggressive, corrosive debates will only provide sound bites the Trump campaign can use against the Democrats.
After the first 20 minutes or so, I turned the debate off. And I am a Democratic supporter.
5
Why can't we pass a law that no one can be President when they are over 80 years old? If we did, we could eliminate a whole bunch of people who have no business running for president, including the incumbent. As I watched all of the
1
>>"But she didn’t respond much above her baseline demeanor — a mild-to-moderate exasperation — and she didn’t get nasty "
Senator Warren started her attacks by calling Bloomberg an "arrogant billionaire" and was the candidate who spoke the most, and spent the highest percentage of her time attacking other candidates.
In which alternate universe, is all of this "mild-to-moderate exasperation" ??
3
Unless Bernie changes his litany, which many of us have already memorized, Trump will tear him to shreds in a debate.
3
I don’t love any of the candidates but I could certainly learn to love any one of them who defeats Trump. My difficulty with Warren isn’t her sex — I think Klobuchar might be a better candidate in the general election; I don’t think that the country particularly likes “Harvard professors”, however shortsighted that might be since Warren is probably the one who’d do best in the job, just as Hillary Clinton would have been.
1
Your comments are spot-on. The Bernie faction won't see it, though.
I also found his medical records answer evasive, and his disowning of the nasty stuff on the internet was very very weak.
Bernie is simply a Trump in wolves clothing, but his millennial supporters who want everything free cannot see this. In fact, they remind me of the Trump supporters I see in photographs at Trump rallies.
6
Are you kidding -Klobuchar was more than miffed. She made a point of leaving fast so she wouldn't have to shake Buttigieg's hand. When Telemundo came back for round 2 Klobuchar -had slight facial contortion-the O Lordy they are back for more look.
Anyway-Pete took the stick to Amy also.
2
The debate made me want to burn my D registration card. It was embarrassing for all of the candidates. They were either mean or lied or just said nothing. No one was articulate and classy. We should stop having debates. Useless exercises of beating up on each other. It must have been a joy for Republicans to watch.
6
"Bernie Sanders should be grateful."
Donald Trump should be grateful and probably is.
2
Well much as the letter Trump got from his flunky doctor was absurd it is in fact true that he seems disgustingly healthy - at least as far as the heart is concerned. So I’m not sure the attempt to paint Sanders as Trump- like in his lack of medical transparency does what the author thinks it does ...
Mr. Buttigieg CANNOT win against trump. He is too young, and is married to a man. Those people that voted against Hillary will NEVER vote for a man who is married to a man. Maybe in another decade or so, but not now.
The religious right who is trying to change the law back so only heterosexual couples can marry will never vote fo Buttigieg.
4
The Democratic circular firing squad is performing admirably. Each of the candidates is sufficiently faulty that the others, much like barnyard chickens, will pick away at the various scabs until each candidate bleeds out, handing Trump an unearned victory, disastrous for democracy. Remember Ted Kennedy backstabbing Carter in 1980? How about Sanders' treatment of Clinton four years ago?
The despicable viciousness of the Republican Party and the surreal ineptitude of the Democrats point strongly to an uber-obvious conclusion... we desperately need a moderate and compassionate well-run third party that would appeal to those of us balanced and thoughtful folks who have not lost our minds or souls (yet).
1
Through all the debates and all the jaw flapping about the same put forth by the Times, one thing is clear to me. Elizabeth Warren is the best candidate. She's got my vote. But as we know best candidates often don't get the nomination, and plenty of Democrats, unfortunately and weirdly including many women, have a misogyny streak they just can't shake.
2
“… the chronic crabbiness his fans find so charming”
Bernie’s message is typically his proposed reforms and how corrupt the politics of the land has become because of the role of money – but neither ever gets a serious review in the media, and he does know there will be no end to personal attracts alone the way.
But he is getting better at handling “Communist” Bloomberg’s contribution.
The debate stage will likely degenerate further to the delight if the media – how sad.
3
If you’re not getting shouty, you’re not paying attention.
This writer can’t find fault in his policy proposals, so predictably she focuses on parts his personality that aren’t all smiles. What would America rather have: a president that smiles for the camera, or a president that actually works in the interest of working people?
And equating Sanders with Trump over medical records? Cmon... How does releasing limited and truthful records compare to a pathological liar bent on hastening climate change doom?
5
"For those not so “comfortable” with Mr. Sanders’s Trumpian lack of transparency, the debate offered little reassurance." Pray tell, how does releasing 3 letters from his doctors compare with Trump's lack of taxes, emoluments, non-disclosure agreements, etc.? You throw around false equivalencies like they were Mardi Gras beads.
2
Your comments about all the debaters seem clear without bias except for your dismissal of a gifted speaker and debater, Pete, who is obviously the kind of leader we can go to sleep at night knowing he is capable and calm and a man of eloquent language. All of the other candidates lack these qualities and suffer us with tantrums or delusional thinking to cover their uneven and empassioned interests. Obama was similar to Pete in talent but he had the darling attribute of being black and therefore garnered votes from so many. Too bad Pete is not black as he would win all in a landside.
1
Liz was very powerful, succinct and persuasive last night. I would vote for her in a heartbeat.
2
A Liz-Pete ticket would be a winner I think especially if Trump refused to debate since both would be able to deliver incoming, and Pence would be wandering around on the electoral battlefield like an abandoned lapdog.
1
After the failed impeachment and Trump's bump in his approval rating, the Democrats might want to prioritize developing more public support for their programs, such as free healthcare, free higher education, guaranteed minimum basic income, slavery restitution, tax cuts for their constituencies, open borders and ending regime change wars, that can help them retake the White House next cycle.
1
It’s Warren, for the Win. And for the restoration of America. Enough of this sordidness and despair.
Seriously.
2
Wishful thinking about South Carolina on the part of yet another pundit in the New York Times who dislikes Sanders and his working class supporters.
Sanders has been attacked more than any other candidate, but unlike Bloomberg and Warren he knows how to defend himself.
For those who despise him and his supporters he will never be attacked enough, but the more he is attacked unfairly, the more he rises in the polls.
4
“… the chronic crabbiness his fans find so charming” Bernie’s message is typically his proposed reforms and how corrupt the politics of the land has become because of the role of money – but neither ever gets a serious review in the media, and he does know there will be no end to personal attracts alone the way. But he is getting better at handling “Communist,” Bloomberg’s contribution.
The debate stage will likely degenerate further to the delight of the media – how sad
Yes, Sanders did have a heart attack and roared like a lion last night. Bloomberg looked like he’s had multiple strokes. I wouldn’t exactly describe him as a bloom-off-the-rose.
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The clear loser was Bloomberg, who committed the unspeakable sin of being a rich person in the Democratic Party.
The clear winner was trump, who now has priceless opposition research on each of the candidates of Democrats attacking each other to play in attack ads.
Meanwhile, the American people gained nothing and learned nothing other than better understanding the pettiness and cravenness of candidates too busy clawing for pole position to attack the gravest threat to our democracy, ever, the emerging dictator in the Oval Office.
3
So exciting to see Trump win the debate without saying a word. I don't know if Bernie's heart could stand all that excitment.
1
"For those not so “comfortable” with Mr. Sanders’s Trumpian lack of transparency..."
Seriously? Can you say "false equivalency, boys and girls"?
Okay, I get it. You don't like Bernie. Maybe you don't agree with returning America to its New Deal roots after 40 years of Robber Baron trickle down because it might impact your 401K. Or maybe you're afraid Sanders can't beat Trump. But while you're paid to offer your opinion, shouldn't you at least be honest about it? Comparing Sanders to Trump in any aspect is ridiculous, and without basis, and simply shows your bias.
You know, if the MSM and Establishment weren't so absorbed in trying to torpedo Sanders, they might notice that he's leading in the polls, and has the highest favorability rating of all the candidates. The problem seems to be that these measures are coming from actual people, and not the fear-based thinking of the media and pundits.
What will you do if he secures the nomination? Will you actually oppose him and thereby support Trump? And if the answer is the former, then why are you so busy trying to knock down the person most likely to face Trump?
In any case, how about practicing a little more objectivity?
5
Let’s be clear; Bloomberg is not a Democrat. He is a Republican who bought his way on to the stage to throw a wrench in the system.
5
@Aaron: Bernie isn't a democrat, either.
1
"This is not to pick on Mr Sanders alone."
Maybe not, but it's close.
You spend the the first 9 paragraphs attacking Sanders.
Your single paragraph criticizing Bloomberg is second to last.
The other candidates get single critical paragraphs, wedged between the Sanders pile-on and Bloomberg's safety zone spot.
Is this what Times coverage is going to look like for the next 9 months? I fear so.
6
Americans seem totally occupied with presidential campaigns year in and year out and it seems it’s all about money and the capacity to appear good on tv.
2
What’s shocking is to read all of the comments from Bernie supporters who won’t vote if he’s not the nominee.
How could they possibly want another 4 years of Trump?
Inconceivable (Princess Bride fans)!
3
@Bronx Jon Are you ignoring all the comments from "moderates" who say that they won't vote for Sanders if he's the nominee? How is that any different?
1
How does Bloomberg’s money differ from PAC money? Aren’t they all attempting to “buy” the election one way or the other?
4
Of all the candidates, only Bloomberg looked truly presidential. Warren looked waspish and mean-spirited, Bernie red-faced spittle-flying angry, empty-eyed Joe shouting, interrupting and pointing his finger, Buttegieg stayed calm but as Mayor of South Bend Indiana he was is up against a 3-term mayor of New York City, Klobuchar was animated but not compelling.
No matter what the Media says, I like Mike.
6
Through his immense money influence and connections Bloomberg persuaded the NYT to support his re-election in 2008 for a third term as mayor of New York - in violation of term limits. The NYT owes it to its readers and subscribers to declare any undue influence or conflict of interest that may be taking place at present. How would the NYT feel about Trump running for a third term? It’s about time we let our brains, and not our wallets, decide how we think - and vote.
1
Bloomberg was fresh meat. All the other candidates have been battling it out in what already seems like too many “debates”. Other than a new slip up, or some old video surfacing there isn’t going to be much shift in the order.
Bloomberg can’t battle the two progressives until he first KOs Joe, Pete, and Amy.... and he doesn’t seem well equipped for that.
He seem weakest when he tried slinging the “C” (communist) word at Bernie. Might as well take debate lessons from Sean Hannity.
3
America would be lucky to have Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren as their Prez.
6
“On occasion, he drifted over the line into smugness or condescension....” On occasion, Michelle? Smugness and Condescension are his middle names! His smarmy attitude, his lecturing other candidates — and by extension the rest of us who support those candidates — is growing tiresome. In my nightmares, Buttigieg is president who lectures the country on everything. We will repeat the last four years of the 1970s.
1
Great description of Sanders, “Shouty”. People don’t like people who shout and lecture, why I cant stand him. He will be a Christmas present to Trump. Hoping this is the beginning of Elizabeth Warren’s ascendency.
1
Pinata... Once the striking is done the pinata opens and releases the rewards. It was a necessary spirited debate and by far the best. Shouty come on look who is the opposite candidate. Just watch Trump's rally in Colorado with his fake bravado. He rails on
Crooked Hillary still, Parasite is really not an american oscar winner, Brad Pitt (loser), Greta Thunberg because she beat him for person of the year. It's endless shouty. We need a passionate
ground swelling candidate and Bernie is doing that. Warren also was incredibly shouty and aggressive and effective. I wish she had done more of this in previous debates. In comparison to Trumps rambling narcissist nonsense, we have engaged, educated alternatives. This is not the time to be charming. You don't beat
Mitch with more Obama kindness.
2
The field has narrowed enough that we can avoid the blood sport of Democratic Nominations debates. Instead, sit each of the candidates down in front of a balanced crew of moderate and progressive journalists. Let each one be questioned extensively by the journalists, with more than enough time to ask follow up questions. Make sure every major issue is covered for each candidate and make the candidates go beyond sound bites. Put together a hour long selection of “best moments” by each candidate and air them on, let’s say, PBS. Each interview being broadcast multiple times and made available online. Also make sure supplemental material is available online to make sure the candidate’s position on each major issue is there for people to see.
People will get to know more about each candidate than can be shown in a debate with six or more people in the debate, with more depth required in the answers. And leave the clips of them attacking the others on the cutting room floor.
Less blood sport and more information would be perfect if we are really interested in selecting the best candidate.
4
The debate was a debacle. We are now sorely missing candidates like Andrew Yang, Jay Inslee, Cory Booker, and Michael Bennet, who were smart and thoughtful and didn't cruelly attack their fellow Democrats. Time for a debate reboot, starting with the selection of moderators, most of whom seemed grimly determined to start fights Wednesday night. Lester Holt was fine. Having more local reporters on the panel might help.
6
Funny, I thought that Sanders did a pretty good job. He deflectied the hits that came his way and that gave as good as he got. He seemed to be having a good time.
Yes, the other candidates chose to target Bloomberg when you think they should have been pounding Sanders. Maybe he shouldn’t have sent them a memo suggesting that they drop out. We are talking about big egos here. Bloomberg gave the impression that the other candidates should feel graced by his presence.
Sorry but no.
My goal in this primary process is to support my candidate without developing a hate for any of the others. One of them is going to be the only thing standing between Trump and a second term. I’d rather not hurt my nose in the process.
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@Brooklyncowgirl
I agree that the primary process should leave out the encouragement of hate against the other candidates.
In contrast to many, I have less respect for Sen. Warren after the bloodbath she created, going relentlessly after most of her opponents in demeaning fashion. I disagree with Ms. Cottle's assessment of the quality of her attacks: she got very nasty, even calling the health plan espoused by Klobuchar a "post it," for insert here. (Admittedly, Klobuchar did not handle criticism against her very well, especially showing her inability to withstand Trumpian attacks by losing it onstage with Buttigieg)
To the credit of former Mayor Bloomberg, he did not mount an ad hominem attack against her for capitalizing off the false notion that she was Native American, when she excoriated him for not being pure enough in these "Me Too" times. She thinks his past history dealing with women and race makes him unelectable; some may think her lack of credibility and willingness to dissemble to self promote might do the same to her, for those looking for a credible, authentic candidate.
She should have sharpened her teeth on Trump's foibles instead of sophomoric mean girl knife jabs in attempt to lob off the legs of her democratic rivals. That way she could display the gladiatorial spirit she wants to project, but would show herself to be a potential dragon-slayer, instead of the slayer of her own tribe.
7
@Brooklyncowgirl In my experience, a great deal many of the individuals who favored Clinton so fervently in the 2016 primary (including the NYT editorial staff) are more afraid to be proven wrong that Bernie is unelectable than they are to beat Trump, or to tackle any of the fundamental issues about which Bernie has every right to be shouting.
10
@She
So true.
Warren is now saying she's the Unity candidate! What a joke!
She trashed everyone at one time or another with her snarky quips. And her trash talk against Bloomberg showed desperation to me.
Her my way or the highway arrogance is just too much to take.
I've been listening to Bob Dylan's classic The Times they are a Changin. I think of this once in a hundred years chance to elect a visionary like Bernie Sanders. I also think of the waters that are growing due to climate change. We must address it with the agency it deserves or we'll be (in Dylan's words) all "drenched to the bone."
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@Innisfree If Sanders was a visionary, I would agree. I think of him as a freshman who’s discovered democratic socialism, a supposedly benign “system of political economy” that avoids the supposed evils of capitalism (of course it has some, as do all “isms.” Young people love the story, but it’s not really a vision, it’s a lack of understanding of Western economic history.
He hasn’t grown up.
10
@Innisfree A practical reality of Sanders as a candidate is that he is polarizing.
I am curious as to how his campaign is/will address that reality.
And he won't go over well in the suburbs. So the closely contested Congressional districts that flipped from red to blue Nov 2018 with moderate Democrats as the candidates, will flip back to red with him at the top of the ticket.
10
You idea of once in a hundred years must be why Trump was elected.
1
As satisfying as it was for much of the Democratic electorate to watch Bloomberg sustain blow after blow from the field, and whether or not you think it’s deserved - I fear that humiliating him will come back and haunt us in the general, when curious centrists and moderate Republicans looking for a Trump alternative make the equivalency (albeit a false one) between the bullies who relentlessly picked on their candidate and the current commander in chief, and sit out or hold their noses and vote Trump.
I’m not saying that the candidates should pander to those voters. But some of the cheap shots may have crossed a line in some voters’ minds, when in reality the criticisms could have been articulated without the bile and (in some cases) unfair comparisons to Trump.
101
@Fed Up -- That is a centrist Democrats fantasy. No Republicans are going to break rank and vote for the Democrats. That's not going to happen. They are completely happy with the results of being in power: They have gotten to pick two Supreme Court judges, with a possible third to come. They have gotten to install hundreds of conservative Federal Court judges, after refusing to interview any judges through the 8 years of Obama.
Trump is saying that he intends to PASS on doing any general election TV debates. So it's going to be 30,000 rally crowds and online campaigning. The only candidate, who has a massive online army is Bernie and his 30,000 rally crowds of young diverse voters and the largest group of independents. He crushes Trump by 18 points among independent voters -- who make up 42% of all registered voters!
30
@Fed Up Agree. the moderates weren't very smart at all. They should have picked on Bernie.
10
@Fed Up The only reason he was "humiliated" is that he wasn't prepared to debate. Period. I have no idea why, but he didn't have answers prepared for the points and questions that he must have known he'd be facing. Or did he think he'd be greeted with deference and gratitude, as the savior? I don't know, but his failure is wholly on him. As a live ad for how he'd handle Trump, he just made a compelling argument for disqualification.
10
I was almost surprised Bloomberg even attended the debate, as he had everything to lose and nothing to gain. The results were predictable.
I'm among the cynics who think Warren's performance was born of desperation. And perhaps the also the cynics who think she might be auditioning for the vp slot on a Sanders ticket since she left him (relatively) unscathed while lacing into his opponents.
The real winner was not there: Donald Trump, whose campaign staff were no doubt gleefully taking notes and storing up copious ammunition to be used against whomever the nominee ends up being.
122
@ThomasH Thank you, and I agree. All I read today is about Warren's superb performance. All I saw last night was her desperation that devolved into peevish, nasty, and unfair attacks on every candidate—from claiming Biden is in cahoots with McConnell to dismissing the accomplished Klobuchar's health plan as barely worthy of a post-it. And today I read she has reversed her stance on taking PAC money, after all that self-righteous indignation about Mayor Pete and billionaires in wine caves.
I was a big fan of Warren's before the campaign began. No more. There was no class and no respect for anyone else on that stage in her performance. Her biggest fan base has always been the media elite. They are severely misreading how her self-righteous hectoring last night plays for the public at large.
67
@Brenda I was disappointed with her--apparently goaded by desperation, an ugly side of her emerged. It was a sad spectacle
17
Very well stated.
6
The Democratic Party should suspend these debates immediately. They are doing the party more harm than good. There is never enough time allotted to each candidate to fully describe their policy differences, which informs voters, They produce video clips for Republicans to take out of context for their ads and encourage cable TV and newspaper pundits to focus on the "who won, who lost" horse race and recycle all the mean and trivial dust-ups. Debating skill is not a skill presidents will use once in office. Just stop it.
205
Bloomberg supporter, I take it? A lot of those around today complaining about how debates are bad.
13
@Ben No, Sanders/Warren supporter. Non-partisan critiques are possible.
38
But how else can we know the candidates if not through debates? How will we know their programs and their thoughts and their logic?
4
If you've been paying attention you may have noticed that the current President of the United states is also pretty "shouty" Since Bernie is doing pretty well in the poles, it may be that the US population likes "shouty" because they are angry.
Michelle, do you think that hollowed out cities all over the US, historical levels of inequality, social safety nets well below the standard of every other advanced country, one of the lowest upward mobility stats of any advanced counter, all in the midst of unprecedented wealth for the elites, might have something to do with that anger? Maybe that has something to do with the appeal of "shouty" candidates.
132
@Eric Righteous indignation sells reality TV ratings; it is not intended to persuade. Rather, it serves to gratify our desire to shame and punish those who we perceive as obstacles to our own goals, including our self-esteem . Trump is the master of mobilizing such desires among his base. Along with Fox News I am afraid that he might prove politically superior to Bernie in tapping into the culture of grievance
4
I'm tired of old men shouting at us.
I'm tired of all the candidates shouting.
I'm for the one who stayed calm, talked about unity, is disciplined, not rattled by others, is incredibly smart, carefully analyzes problems, and gives me hope. Mayor Pete is what our country needs.
132
@Jess Darby
Pete Buttigieg was by far the youngest candidate who participated in the debate and yet he often looked to be the only adult in the room. I'm guessing that his military training and deployment in a combat zone are among the factors that have led to the calm yet firm demeanor that he displayed for the full two hours. It was an impressive performance, indeed a presidential one.
63
@Jess Darby
That impressed me too. Pete's mind is agile, young, expresses itself freely. In comparison, the others look handicapped. And he's authentic, applicable to the situation. The others only if they can resort to the their rehearsed sing-songs, they obviously practiced before their mirror. Sanders is the worst answering machine of them all, you can tell that he's used the same sentences and phrases over and over ad nauseum. A real demagogue. Trump is so unorthodox that Sanders will not be able to handle him, or the presidency. Can you imagine Sanders making public statements like the fortune teller in the ping pong parlor for four years? People are really gonna cry then, and the Republican will have free reign. If Sanders loves his country, he should withdraw immediately.
9
Yes, just wind him up and watch him go.
11
I would like to hear a Democratic candidate state:
(i) It is admirable to start a business and to create lots of jobs; in fact, the growth of our economy depends upon entrepreneurs.
(ii) Becoming rich is not immoral; in fact, many Americans aspire to become rich.
(iii) Mayor Bloomberg is to be admired and thanked for his charitable work and for his initiative in opposing Trump. The Democratic Party is fortunate his financial support for the upcoming election.
I am not a supporter of Mayor Bloomberg, but I'm glad he and I are on the same side.
267
Not just Americans aspire to be rich - HUMANS aspire to be rich. Being wealthy is great. Money makes things easy. Who doesn't want that? Who REALLY doesn't want that?
20
@Steven Absolutely and well said.
Sure I am socially "liberal" and structurally "progressive".
I believe in the (brother)sisterhood of humankind and our moral obligation to ALL.
I believe that compassion, empathy, and cooperation were and are paramount drivers of our successful evolution.
I believe that political systems built on trickery, lies, zero-sum models, isolation, elitism, and transaction by transaction fights to the death spell failure in our modern World.
I believe Secular Liberal Democracy (SLD) was and should continue to be our guiding philosophy of government.
I believe Global Warming is an existential threat and that we do have a moral obligation to combat it.
I KNOW the current GOP is antithetical to all of the above, its goal is Theocratic Authoritarian Plutocracy (TAP) and winning at all costs.
I KNOW the D Party and any of the D candidates at an EXISTENTIAL level over the long run would be better than allowing the GOP to continue to destroy our heart and soul.
But I am also a FIRM believer in a mixture of fair Capitalism, fair Merit System, and fair Social Supports; that together they make the best system allowing cream to rise without spoiling the milk below.
I am NOT against wealth, Plutocrats, Capitalism, nor merit based rewards.
I am against TAP!
I am for SLD!
That is why I vote D Party!
20
@PeteH
Yes, having enough to live a decent life is good.
But do you need $60 billion? Or $120 billion, a la Bezos. Do you need the richest 3 Americans owning as much wealth as the bottom 50% of Americans?
11
"Berniue Sanders shoild be grateful."
What Sanders should be grateful for is all that 'student loan debt' Millennials racket up prior to the 2016 election cycle. Like I've said many times before, before the run-up to the 2016 electio]n cycle, Millennials didn't know Bernie Sanders from Colonel Sanders and all that Millennial support tied to Sanders being a Progressive being spin, nothing more, It was all about Sanders promising to absolve their Student Loan Debt and promising to get them free college educations at the state level. And it's continuing today.
Culturally, like all burgeoning generations, Millennials four years ago were a generation of rebels looking for a cause. But because they were not exactly the most proactive, involved individuals, instead bogged down in the all-consuming reality of their e-devices, they ignored the plethoira of causes they could have picked from to make their signature cause. Women's issues, say supporting 'A Women's Right to Choose', or choosing to help save the 'enviroinment' by railing against the 'fossil fuel industry'. Something, anything.
But they did find a cause to throw themselves behind: 'Themselves', and specifically getting Bernie Sanders elected to get rid of all that Student Loan Debt absolved. Remember, they didn't know Bernie Sanders from Colonel Sanders befoire the run-up to the 2016 election.
And what we're seeing today with their undying support for Sanders is simply the next verse is this ode to themselves.
3
I was hoping to hear what some of these candidates will do for me if elected. Thanks to some of these participants all heard about is already documented and addressed history. I guess I'll watch a bit with the sound off and see who is least likely to be embarrassing on the world stage.
6
If Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren gets the nomination, Trump will win and the Dems will lose the House and Senate.
All the Democrats and Republicans that I know want Trump out, but not if it means the destruction of our 401k . As bad as Trump personally is, the economy is tolerable.
The Democratic debates have been a waste of opportunity with incessant hectoring and virtue signaling at each other.
17
@Mike W If all the people you know have 401ks, and that is their biggest issue, consider that your acquaintances are not representative of Americans as a whole. The economy is not tolerable for most people, to whom stock performance means nothing. Most Americans are concerned about whether their paycheck will cover their bills. Bernie and Elizabeth understand that.
Nearly all Republicans want Trump reelected but not if it means that their city might be nuked. Unfortunately for all of us, their myopia prevents them from seeing that Trump’s incompetence and his promotion of incompetents runs risks across the board to our financial well-being, to our safety, and to our existence, not to mention our democratic way of life and the social fabric that binds us together. Trump is like the drunk teenager speeding down the highway who hasn’t died yet and thinks therefore that he is immortal. It is not safe to ride with him even if he says he’s going to your destination.
1
Interesting that you fail to mention the most significant point facing Democrats in this election that Bernie is the only candidate in a position to stop. Bloomberg is trying to buy the presidency. Sure, he’s spending his own money but the idea that one individual is in a position to do so while the majority of Americans either live in poverty or barely make ends meet is morally reprehensible. Bloomberg would have already succeeded had Bernie not gone this far. You would have fine with this? Let’s look at the real transparency of what class of people don’t pay their fair share of taxes. Perhaps it’s time they do?
5
I left the debate struck by how the Democratic Party is flawed. It is a very loose coalition of interests groups with different agendas that lacks a governing viewpoint around which it can unite. The different candidates spoke to one demographic or another without a positive national perspective. Small wonder that the GOP has such success in national elections - especially in good times. As fundamentally flawed as it is, they have a common viewpoint around which they build their case.
11
@HPower The Democrats flaw may also be their strength. If you talk to one Republican, you basically have talked to them all. En masse, they all are demonizing socialism, which they don't realize includes Medicare and Social Security, they all have stories of someone who doesnt like the healthcare in Canada. They are like the Stepford voters and if you stand back and look and listen, its scary. The Democrats debate and disagree but seem to be truly addressing issues, but with different solutions, instead of repeating slogans mindlessly
3
Bernie has a core following--he can show up in many states and count on 25 percent or so. He can pull in some numbers in addition to the core--that might be another 10 percent.
Any night that any of his opponents give him a pass, he has a chance to add his count while the other candidates fight for the leftovers. The leftovers are significant in aggregate, but when divided among 5 candidates, they are paltry.
In order to stop Bernie, someone needs a breakthrough on Super Tuesday that will force three or four of the remaining candidates (Joe, Amy, Pete, Mike, Elizabeth) out of the race. Dropping out for the good of the party is something the other candidate can do. Otherwise everyone stays in and fights to keep Bernie from winning a majority or a large plurality of delegates prior to the convention.
The world can wonder how a Sanders vs. Trump matchup will unfold
2
The undisputed winner of the last Democratic debate was Donald Trump. Too many moderator questions were directed toward provoking behaviors evocative of reality tv entertainment and reminiscent of “Animal House”. The tv audience observed the spectacle of presidential candidates pouncing on one another’s past behaviors rather than coherently articulating their own policies.
Mud slinging is all too common in the political industry, and Trump’s team is loading up their own attack playbook on the relative emotional intelligence of each Democratic candidate. None of these antics inspire confidence toward the future direction of a country facing serious socio-economic, healthcare, education, immigration and foreign policy challenges.
20
@Stu Sutin - Thanks Stu. It seems everyone is buying into the idea that the behavior of the candidates, the moderators, the coverage by the 'news', and ourselves has validity. NOT Me
7
I appreciate your response. We live in an era where each person must assume ownership of their own moral compass and act accordingly.
10
@Stu Sutin - I agree. That said, many conversations I either hear or I'm involved in are maddening as to logic, fact, opinion and lack any consistency. And I believe that those people I hear are, by nature, good people (and not by my president's idea of). And I am sure I could often be judged just as harshly. That that said, many need a moral compass implant. Note: did you spell 'error' wrong on purpose? HaHa.
I think our problem (I am a lifelong Democrat) is that we don't have a strong candidate. I support Bernie's policies, except those on trade, but I don't like the fact that he's old, in questionable health, and is something of a poseur: he's not a socialist. He's a social democrat, and it's annoying he calls himself socialist - it's like a teenager with a Che Guevara poster. Grow up, Bernie.
But though we might not have a great candidate, they have, undoubtedly the worst candidate in the history of the Republic.
I really do think Warren is our best candidate, and by far would be the best President. She understands government, finance, and economics better by far than any of the others - if she looked like Robert Redford she'd be a shoo-in (then again, so would Bernie).
But we have to try to win with all we have. That's cornball, but it's very true this time. Trump term 2 is Endgame.
20
Does it really matter?
Dems are either going to vote for anyone but Trump or they're going to not vote, e.g., Bernie Bros. taking their votes and going home.
Either way, Putin will make sure his boy is elected.
10
Shouting and waving arms and pointing fingers are standard rhetorical ploys when arguments are weak in substance and logic.
This is standard not just for politicians but for many who have to speak publicly as part of their livelihood.
Many a weak point, even in an academic lecture, can be hidden through enthusiasm. Enthusiasm is infectious. Logic less so.
Alas, enthusiasm and flailing arms are not generally predictors of leadership qualities.
39
@Joshua Schwartz
Really?
Have you spent much time around Jewish NY'ers?
Surely you are familiar with how many cultures and peoples talk demonstrably with their hands and gestures.
As for leadership, qualities, many great ones DID talk with their hands.
You think maybe it's your own bias, dislike talking here? Or are maybe just fitting an association with the narrative your attempting to pass?!
Here's one of our own commentators beautiful explanation, of cultural hand talking.
https://www.rimaregas.com/2016/02/11/talking-with-ones-hands-its-not-rude-its-a-jewish-and-italian-thing-culture-on-blog42/
1
It's Bloomberg or bust for us. If bernie is an independent he should debate trump now.
19
@PRB
Perhaps Bloomberg should primary Trump as a Republican, especially if he wants to really help defeat Trump.
2
This recent media blitz to paint Bernie as "Trumpian" would be funny if it wasn't such pathetically transparent fearmongering and intellectual dishonesty. But intellectual dishonesty is a hallmark of attacks against Bernie by his "moderate" rivals pushing the broken, rotting system of the status quo. Just last night Bloomberg claimed Bernie was promoting communism, when in fact Sanders' platform advocates for the same social programs enjoyed by highly developed countries like Denmark and Finland. There were also multiple assertions by candidates who have accepted donations from billionaires that, somehow, Medicare for All actually meant the opposite of its name, and would take away the healthcare of half of Americans. Just like Trump and the GOP, the Democratic establishment's go-to play for holding onto their power is not to better the lives of their base, but instead to frighten and deceive their base into voluntarily acting against their own interest. Bernie is smeared so viciously by the media and the Democratic establishment because he has no scandal. He has five decades of documented advocacy and activism for minorities, blue collar workers, LGBTQ+ individuals. He has fought those who seek to oppress and exploit the ordinary people. He is the people's champion. The Washington Post, New York Times, and the Democratic establishment are fighting tooth and nail against Bernie Sanders because their masters their Masters know they will be the first to be held accountable.
13
@Taylor M Thanks for exemplifying the problems presented by Sanders supporters. He is not the Messiah. He has weaknesses and negative characteristics as do other candidates. Learn to be critical about your hero.
Whatever happened to "Indivisible" ? This not as off-topic as some might think . Just before the beginning of the Democratic primary, Indivisible asked each candidate to take a three part pledge . The most important one, I believe, was that candidates would refrain, in the primary campaign, from personally attaking each other, in other words to stick to policy .
I believe all the then-candidates signed it, Bernie Sanders first . Of course, Bernie was the first to break it, albeit in a minor way . But yesterday's debate demonstrated the glaring disregard that ALL candidates have for their word .
"Winning" the debate at all costs, even if winning in no way contributed to the political enlightenment of the electorate as to policies but, on the contrary, aimed at destroying the next person on the dais, was what we witnessed in Las Vegas .
As many others have said, the real Winner of this debate is Donald Trump . There was enough nastiness and enough smallness in this debate to create a myriad of Trump campaign commercials .
Yes, where are you, Indivisible ? I know you still exist, but what happened to your ability to mobilize the kinds of crowds which made the Women's March and successive events so impressive and compelling ?
22
@pgd The Republicans have amassed and maintained power since adopting Reagan's "First Commandment -- thou shalt not speak badly of ANY Republican".
Sanders and Bloomberg would make a good team. If they do team up, each one sheds a positive light on the other. Bloomberg's allegiance makes Sanders look more open minded and pragmatic, and Sanders' leadership makes Bloomberg look more focused and dynamic.
As a team, they are harder for Trump to pigeon-hole, since they cover almost the entire spectrum of reasonable political thought. In order to attack one, Trump would put himself at risk from the other.
1
@James -- Bloomberg would never go for being a Vice President, he's already said that he's only out to beat Trump (if you can believe that.) His deal with the DNC is that he's willing to spend as much as a $billion or more of his $64.5 billion wealth on becoming the candidate -- which so far has meant massive campaign backing for around 100 centrist-Democrats in the 2018 Midterms. Those party politicians and the 47 newly elected "Moderates" aka Republican-Lite lawmakers have now been influenced to help his campaign for POTUS. That's how billionaires by influence to get where they want to go. He's also promised to help all of the down-ballot candidates in the 2020 general election BUT ONLY IF HE'S THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE -- Otherwise, he's just going to stick with fighting off Trump. Because, after all, he's actually a Republican, who has supported all the usual Republicans like George H. and George W. Bush.
Either way, Trump vs Bloomberg is a win-win for the 1% global investments crowd, just as Trump vs Clinton was a win-win for the Oligarchy.
7
@mjpezzi Actually Bloomberg briefly became a Republican to avoid a primary slugfest. He's actually been a Democrar for almost 4 decades. How about Bernie?
2
It’s fascinating to me how people who criticize Sanders for his anger and alleged self righteousness never stop to wonder if he might be right to be angry. And maybe their own attitudes display a certain level of unconscious smugness and self righteousness.
Upper middle class liberals often think the US was on the right track until Trump came along, Sanders and his movement don’t agree. Trump made things far worse, but no, things were not okay. We supported endless wars abroad ad people go bankrupt when they get sick. And we have almost no time left to do something drastic on climate change. We might say we accept the science but in our actions we are deniers.
And if you feel sad that you might have to vote for Sanders in November, how do you think we felt voting for your beloved moderates in previous elections?
55
@Donald
he is allowed to be angry whithout being punished for it, no woman of any race nor a Black man could get away with it. That's why I find it so irritating!
I am getting tired of Bernie Sanders' angry yelling and class warfare approach to politics. The Democrats need a unifier and a pragmatist who has broad electoral appeal and a positive message. I know the word "pragmatic" does not sit well with the left wing, who continue to berate moderates. The reality is wee need to win this election and take back our democracy. The sniping in this debate, abetted by very poor moderators, was not the Democrats' best moment. Let's remember that if Mitch McConnel and the GOP continue to control the Senate, all the big "plans" will be mute even if a Democrat wins. In addition, a Sanders nomination may well put moderate Democrats who flipped Republican seats in 2018 at risk. Mayor Pete may be young but he seemed to be the adult in the room last night. I would not write off Biden just yet, either.
29
@Steven Dunn
This debate had the highest viewership of any so far this election season! Face it- politics is entertainment is TV! Everyone tuned in to watch them duke it out- and were not disappointed! With our money and media driven election campaigns there is no such thing anymore as "an adult in the room". It's just "Survivor".
Makes it hard to know who to vote for yes? Maybe time is better spent researching candidates' platforms and records than watching debates?
9
Seems like a lot of people tired of the moderates who keep saying what we can not do, even while other countries are doing just fine. We could not have M4A, because we are not Switzerland, we can not have free education because we are not Sweden, we can not have family leaves because we are not Denmark. Buttigieg is a nice guy, but we are tired to hear what we can not do, but we like to see much brighter options than status quo.
17
@Mattie:
It is wrong to say "everyone tuned in to watch them duke it out." Before anyone tuned-in, NO ONE knew what would happen, whether the debate would be a snore-fest or a luv-fest or a blood-fest.
In truth, the reason this debate had the highest viewership was because of Bloomberg's newness and powerhouse status.
Everyone wanted to see him in his first debate.
1
The last time around Sanders' candidacy was a gift to Republicans and Putin. This time around it looks to be on track for doing the same. Sanders has a pie in the sky platform that thrills young people, but no reasonable hope of winning high office. He is the ultimate example of the perfect being the enemy of the good.
45
Actually, last time NOT nominating Sanders was a big gift to Trump. Especially, because it appeared that DNC rigged the game against Bernie which Russians just highlighted.
17
@Leigh
If he's "the ultimate example of the perfect being the enemy of the good", why are you blaming him?
It was the voters that opted for "good enough" and lost.
It was the voters that preferred the worst presidential candidate, over the second most disliked, distrusted nominee in recent history.
Yet, you blame Sanders whom you call perfect and those that might have preferred him, instead of settling for "good"; and ultimately the worst.
Really?!
Seems we need to coalesce for perfect this time.
3
@yulia:
Hopefully some day when your emotions have calmed, you will see that your statement contains no logic. It is full of fervor, anger, and assumptions. This is bad for you. It prevents you from making sense.
Your words sound no different than that of a typical trump supporter. It is becoming all too apparent that Sanders' supporters also prefer to act rabidly and ignore rationality. A serious problem! America has the same irrationality and assumptions on the extreme right and extreme left.
I fear that neither trump nor Sanders can unify America.
1
“Leadership is also about how you motivate people to treat other people. I think you have to accept some responsibility and ask yourself what it is about your campaign in particular that seems to be motivating this behavior more than others.”
This comment by Buttigieg is appropriate. There is something about Sanders' behavior that is similar to Trump in that regard. Their demeanor attracts undesirable followers, not that Trump would consider those who follow him as undesirable. There is a bit of authoritarian in Bernie that is attractive to this type of person.
Buttigieg is not my first choice to win the nomination because of his lack of overall experience, but he is smart and observant, and the above statement is an example of it.
30
@Richard Phelps - You should try to get out to a Bernie Sanders rally to get the sense of togetherness and hope that is generated. It's a very moving and positive experience. #NotMeUS is a grassroots movement supported by the largest number of independent voters, as well as the largest number of Hispanic/Latino voters, Native Americans, and young voters under age 40, as well as the largest number of young black and people of color. We have pulled together $95 million dollars, which is an all-time grassroots record of any presidential candidate. Are we the "deplorables" Hillary talked about? Who exactly are you talking down to when you say "this type of person"? I can tell you that I am a retired news reporter with a 30 year career, writing for a major city newspaper. I have traveled the world, and seen a few things. Enough to know that "Medicare For All Who Want It" is a TRAP. It would bankrupt Medicare because insurance corporations would be happy to insure only healthy people and dump them onto the "voluntary" public option when they were no longer profitable. It also would not eliminate the $5,000 annual deductibles, the co-pays and surprise billings.
23
So, what is in the Sanders campaign that provokes alleged behavior?
1
@mjpezzi I am a licensed health care agent in numerous states. In the Affordable Care Act, private insurers cannot drop members due to any reason beyond lack of payment. Secondly, the current deductibles for Medicare are $1408 and $198 for parts A and B, respectively. AND, if you opt for a Medicare Advantage plan, most of those can be had with no deductibles as long as you understand you are working in an HMO or PPO format. There are modest pay-as-you-go copays, and Out of Pocket Maximums in those plans.
Some people talk at you. Some talk to you. Occasionally, some may talk with you.
Last night I watched for this. It feels like Sanders talks at you. His supporters are saying that Bernie doesn't shout. If you 'talk at' someone in a loud way, it seems like shouting. It's not only volume. Then couple that with anger, which seems to be this emotional baseline. In my opinion, it would be better and more effective for him to use anger sparingly. The advantage to an always angry style is that it draws attention. The downside is that it provides a role model, but a polarizing one.
Warren also talked at people rather than to them last night. Not with such a loud voice. She doesn't always, like Sanders. But it will turn a number of people off, particularly when attacking someone.
Pete seems to talk to people. He conveys passion and commands attention without raising his voice. Unfortunately when he feels defensive he can come across as condescending. When he tries to hold the floor, it can come across as mansplaining, though I don't think it's that.
The candidate from past debates that was best was Yang. He not only seemed to talk to people, he talked with them. There is room for humor in his style. This showed, I think, in his campaign. Yang's the one I'd most like to have coffee with.
These styles relate to effectiveness, though they are only one part of that.
15
@Kathleen
When people talk to each other, they usually say something. They have a message to convey. I have yet to hear Pete say something that isn't a hollow platitude you could program into a Ken doll.
Debates and rallies are not conversations. Of course you're going to talk at people instead of to them.
23
When Bloomberg had the stint put in, he should have a personality installed. Might have helped make it look like he actually wanted to be there...
12
From the perspective of winning the Electoral College, the USA is a center right country.
While I am progressive, I look at the candidates solely in the pragmatic terms of who can win this center right Electoral College.
Sanders deserves credit for energizing a progressive agenda and keeping it in the forefront. However, as far as a candidate winning in the current reality of a center right Electoral College, that candidate is not Bernie Sanders.
104
@Voter -- Bernie Sanders supported the #StopTPP movement that was very strong all across the rust belt states. He called the Trans Pacific Partnership being pushed by Obama and Clinton "another lousy free-trade agreement like NAFTA that doesn't protect American workers." He won almost every county in Michigan, defeating Clinton by 13 points. When Bernie was no longer available to represent them on FAIR TRADE, they voted for Trump, who also promised to do something about protecting American jobs. (Of course, he said what he said for the votes so he could further-cut taxes for the rich and appoint hundreds of conservative judges.)
18
@Voter -- Bernie Sanders supported the #StopTPP movement that was very strong all across the rust belt states. He called the Trans Pacific Partnership being pushed by Obama and Clinton "another lousy free-trade agreement like NAFTA that doesn't protect American workers." He won almost every county in Michigan, defeating Clinton by 13 points. When Bernie was no longer available to represent them on FAIR TRADE, they voted for Trump, who also promised to do something about protecting American jobs. (Of course, Trump said what he said for the votes so he could further-cut taxes for the rich and appoint hundreds of conservative judges.)
5
@Voter
You underestimate his popularity with Independents who find comfort in establishment Dems saying Sanders is not a “real” Democrat. They are not that crazy about the “real” ones. As a progressive lifelong Democrat, neither am I.
24
I was shocked at work, an environment where politics are seldom discussed, at how many people were openly despondent at the goat rodeo that was the debate. It was unanimous that the only winner last night was Trump.
134
@MHB. I love your depiction that the debates are a"goat rodeo."
The political debates in our country are nothing more than theater. The speaker has to capture the listeners emotions through compelling stories. Facts don't matter at all, especially when it comes to GOP leadership.
Theater is what moves us, motivates us, and inspires or terrifies us. Unfortunately, the person who can capture our emotions the best will be the winner regardless of qualifications.
3
@MHB:
How shocking to see Warren first starting and then continuing the Circular Firing Squad bloodshed of the last debate.
Warren, Sanders, and Biden had all signed the Indivisible organization's pledge that they will not attack other democrats. Somehow they forgot that?
I suppose, when you fear losing your little niche, you ditch the party.
Warren lost my vote and confidence. Her persona returned to her original "shrieking scared woman" again. No thanks!
2
Yes, Bernie's time in the hot seat will come--soon. And he has as many vulnerabilities as Bloomberg.
It is clear that Bernie is far sharper than either Bloomberg or Biden. Nevertheless, each of the three is many years too old to be elected president, and you can bet Trump will make hay out of Bernie's heart attack and medical records opacity, hypocritical though that may be.
Although these so-called "debates"--really joint appearances--usually generate more heat than light, this time may have been the exception. This time, we got to see Bloomberg real time, not just in canned ads. What do you want to bet that, as a result, he will sink in the polls? (And it couldn't happen to a nicer guy.)
8
Sharper than Bloomberg? You simply cannot be serious.
I am very tired of hearing that Bernie is a socialist who cannot win. Bernie is a modern day FDR. His political father was FDR. FDR was also called a socialist and a communist. If you believe that FDR was a great president, vote for Senator Bernie Sanders. If you believe that FDR was a communist, vote against Senator Sanders. Despite the hatred of the rich and being called a communist, FDR was elected president four times. Make America Great Again and elect Bernie Sanders.
65
@Westcoast Texan FDR was extremely rich himself. FDR never visited various communist countries multiple times and came back to praise them. This is a serious problem. And there's a lot more of this stuff on video. It makes Bernie pretty much unelectable in the general election.
The argument you make is meant to cover over this. Covering it over makes it seem much worse. Bernie needs to address it directly and not make that type of argument. Otherwise he's toast.
I will, of course, vote for him in the general election if he is the candidate, so he owes it to everyone who may vote for him to handle this better. He needs to do it now. By the time November rolls around it will be a handled situation. We can only hope it will fade into the background.
10
@Westcoast Texan History shows FDR's New Deal intentionally did not threaten southern white supremacy. It was largely supported and pushed through by powerful racist politicians from the South. It was a unique era, progressive for whites only.
From Ira Katznelson's book, "Fear Itself":
"Remarkable in his reelection of 1936 was the degree of support he (FDR) secured across the Deep South. Roosevelt's reelection was endorsed by 87% of voters in Alabama, Georgia and Texas, 89% in Louisiana, and an astonishing 97% in Mississippi and 99% in South Carolina, where some counties reported not one Republican vote."
6
You do know that the New Deal didn’t actually work, right? It was the massive spending of the wartime economy which turned the country around.
5
“… the chronic crabbiness his fans find so charming”
Bernie’s message is typically his proposed reforms and how corrupt the politics of the land has become because of the role of money – but neither ever gets a serious review in the media, and he does know there will be no end to personal attracts alone the way. But he is getting better at handling “Communism,” Bloomberg’s contribution.
The debate stage will likely degenerate further to the delight of the media – how sad.
12
Bernie has an excellent shot at losing, so it will be interesting to see if Bloomberg's love of country will be strong enough for him to bankroll Sanders. With Bloomberg's money, Marianne Williamson could beat Trump.
8
@JR, how did you miss the fact that Bernie would never take Mike's money?
@JR
Bernie said he wouldn't need Bloomberg's money. He didn't say he wouldn't take it but he implied as much. So silly. Bernie can not raise the sums that Trump will have to clean his clock.
@JR Bloomberg has already pledged a billion dollars and use of his well oiled campaign apparatus to whomever becomes the Dem candidate. The billion he gave to the party in the past mid-terms were part of what flipped the House to Democrat.
I don’t believe Sanders can win the national elections. Democrats routinely make the mistake of thinking the country is smarter and more evolved than it really is. Running against Sanders is fairy easy for Republicans. Tie everything around Soviet and Venezuelan socialism and even communism. The narrative will be big spending and loss of freedom. Dems will make intellectual arguments that will sound like adults in a Peanuts cartoon.
Dems will lose and gnash their teeth and Trump will finish of the great democracy experiment once and for all.
115
@Practical Thoughts - please find a way to see that every candidate and every campaign manager gets a copy of this. You’re spot on.
14
@Practical Thoughts That's not how I remember the last 50 years. I seem to recall a number of centrist Democrats who lost while trying desperately to run to the middle:
Stevenson
Humphrey
Mondale
Dukakis
Gore
Kerry
H. Clinton
Oh and there was one progressive who lost:
McGovern
12
@Practical Thoughts every poll sanders leads the field against trump. Not sure why you think hes unelectable besides the democratic establishment crying about it.
2
Nice.
Agreed. Bloomberg took the blows that would have been meant for Sanders.
That makes two winners last night, Sanders and Trump.
25
I would really be surprised if any candidate wins a majority of delegates by the time of the convention. While Sanders seems to be leading there are five viable center-left candidates who together have the majority of voter support. And two are billionaires who don't have to worry about funding drying up and none of the center-left candidates seem to be emerging as someone who can take a commanding lead. I don't think things will be much clearer after Super Tuesday. Democratic voters are looking for clarification but it doesn't seem to be happening.
2
@Bob Sanders is leading the polling in EVERY state voting on Super Tuesday. Things will be clear after Super Tuesday.
6
@Steve M You are misinformed - a small sample from realclearpolitics
Georgia Democratic Primary Biden +18; Minnesota Democratic Primary Klobuchar +6; Arkansas Democratic Presidential Primary Bloomberg +1 (Sanders in 3rd); Oklahoma Democratic Primary Bloomberg +6, Sanders high-water mark in any poll is still under 30%. Can he beat Trump? He couldn't even beat Clinton (who then lost to Trump) - he lost almost every primary against her in 2016 and amassed delegates mainly in undemocratic caucuses. We can all agree or disagree on policy and tactics but you can't out-shout the facts.
19
I have no confidence in polling and it was proven to be of little value with Trump.
3
Meanwhile, for the very first time, Trump's approval rating in the Gallup poll exceeds his disapproval rating ( 49% to 48%) - an ominous sign for Democrats
46
@Jose Pieste
This metric is polled so often that one poll wildly different from the others is reasonably likely to be an outlier instead of a change in the underlying opinions.
5
@Jose Pieste which means the oxycontin opioid epidemic is a worse than we thought.
1
@Jose Pieste - Having heard what the Democratic presidential candidates have to say, they are deciding that maybe Trump is not as bad as advertised.
1
It could be pure happenstance, or it could be some sort of Karmic residue of millennia of patriarchy, but I believe it is not wise or practical for us to accept that our only choice is between a couple of old, grouchy men from New York City: Bernie and Bloomberg.
Elizabeth Warren and Amy Klobuchar - diverse as they are politically - have accomplished the most in national office, are popular as second choices, and do not have anywhere near the divisiveness of Misters Sanders and Bloomberg.
We should rally around them and nominate one.
We owe it to our children and grandchildren, and the rest of the world, if not ourselves.
I think Warren and Klobuchar should announce they are both going to fight to win, but that a vote for one is a vote for the other - with the leader in delegates at the convention leading the ticket, and the other taking the Veep's spot.
12
@Mark Keller Warren had a strong performance, but Amy seemed to be alternately near tears and infuriated by the hall monitor's questions. That's not good. It reminded me that when I read the NYT article on her treatment of her employees in her current job, I got the strong sense that she was abusive because she was overstressed by that job. That argued strongly against taking on the presidency, which is stress on steroids. I just don't think she's got the fiber for it.
5
@Mark Keller You think America is going to vote for not one but two women on the ticket. You are a lot more optimistic than this woman reader
1
It could be pure happenstance, or it could be some sort of Karmic residue of millennia of patriarchy, but I believe it is not wise or practical for us to accept that our only choice is between a couple of old, grouchy men from New York City: Bernie and Bloomberg.
Elizabeth Warren and Amy Klobuchar - diverse as they are politically - have accomplished the most in national office, are popular as second choices, and do not have anywhere near the divisiveness of Misters Sanders and Bloomberg.
We should rally around them and nominated one.
We owe it to our children and grandchildren, and the rest of the world, if not ourselves.
I think Warren and Klobuchar should announce they are both going to fight to win, but that a vote for one is a vote for the other - with the leader in delegates at the convention leading the ticket, and the other taking the Veep's spot.
15
It is sad when this debates clear winner is relegated to a few comments that were far less explanatory of her clear victory. You, like so many other reporters, seem to have written Senator Warren off with only two primaries down. On the other hand, your descriptions of snarky Mayor Pete were absolutely on the mark. I am amazed at how the shallowness of his actual plans result in peoples belief that he is a great political pundit. He is not. Finally, Mayor Bloomberg can please go back to New York, where he can continue to try to buy the populace of that city.
6
It's interesting to see Democrats now homing in on Mr. Sanders as their choice, but he's too old, has a potentially serious health problem, he's way too far left, and shows no inclination to move to center. To vote for him you have to have a very settled idea that fundamental change is not only needed by can be achieved; you have to assume that this election will totally switch the nation from right to left--president, congress, the states--the works. Does that seem realistic? I don't know--are big numbers of people really ready to roll the dice? Is this a major watershed election coming up and we don't see it coming? I'm at least skeptical.
58
While they all were angry about Bloomberg trying to buy the nomination, the progressives went farther than the others, essentially trying to define him out of the Democratic party. However Warren and Sanders both went after the obvious: sexism and racism. The problem with those attacks is that Bloomberg could do a much better job of defending himself, taking about how many women he promoted and mustering a more heartfelt apology for stop and frisk with a follow-up about his philanthropy.
But I think they missed the chance that Bloomberg handed them in the second half. When he said he was the only one who had started a business, anti-capitalist Sanders and anti-banker Warren were both silent.
Krugman had the answer they should have been ready with in his column today. Yeah, you started a business. Your Bloomberg Terminal is a better tool for the people that mine our economy for easy money from financial transactions and don't care about building up manufacturing, job security, housing, health, or education. So you made billions helping the rich concentrate even more wealth into their hands. Good business decision Mike. Thanks a lot.
Maybe next time.
8
"Without Mr. Bloomberg, Mr. Sanders not only would have suffered more hits, but more people would have focused on how clumsily he handled those he did draw."
Like Trump, Sanders has zero sense of humor. and that's at the root of his self-righteousness and overall grouchiness. He and his campaign can't handle criticism either.
So yeah, he owes Bloomberg a big debt of gratitude while hopefully working on his own delivery if he wants to win the nomination. I personally find him grating and hard to listen to-- a dose of humility would serve him well.
134
I think he has a great sense of humor. But I really don’t care if he does or not - how is that important? I want a person who doesn’t flip and has the courage of his convictions and a vision for a more equal country.
25
@JJ: it's important in that a person who can't laugh at himself is often unable to learn and grow from his mistakes. Sanders is very defensive, and what you see as courage of convictions, for many comes off as inflexible.
32
@ChristineMcM
I had a relative who supported the Vietnam War and would grow livid with rage when he contemplated what he felt was the failure of anti-war activists (such as myself) to exhibit a sense of humor. We were so righteous, so serious, so infuriatingly sure of ourselves! For this reason, of course, nothing we had to say was worth listening to.
I suspect that Sanders's sense of humor is over your head.
14
No, Michelle, Bernie has no reason to be grateful to a plutocrat attempting to buy the election.
You make it sound as if he was extremely vulnerable to the moderates' attacks and was lucky to have escaped them. That's just false -- they attack him with the same lines and talking points during every. single. debate. and he always takes them on and responds remarkably well! That's not going to change because Bloomberg needs a little heat to prove he doesn't belong on that stage.
And none of the candidates are short-sighted enough to be attacking Sanders, who has a clear lead in Nevada, anyway. They're all vying for second or third place or more focused on one another.
71
@X Also, seriously? Refusing to release personal medical records (when you've already proven you're in good health) now amounts to a "Trumpian lack of transparency"? Give me a break.
@X
Sanders will get crushed in the South. Clinton got over 70% of the primary vote in five states.
Warren showed a “mild to moderate exasperation?” Either you are being extremely generous or we were watching a different debate.
Warren was throwing a Hail Mary pass, abandoning her prior iteration as someone who could unify the party. She did enormous damage to the Democratic Party and did nothing to help herself.
The only 2 people who moved up in the betting (which has been better than the polls) were Sanders and Trump.
Warren did not improve her standing at all as her desperation measures failed.
Her supporters are torching the $5 million she raised.
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What IS a Democrat? Sanders isn't one. Bloomberg has wavered between being one and not being one according to the moment and expediency. As to the others, what is the unifying strain that connects them all to the idea of what a Democrat is or should be? They say that they will coalesce around the eventual nominee but that's a moot point based on their capacity to devour each other before getting to the final goal which Democrats claim is getting rid of the gangster-president but in terms of demonstrable conduct, they're going about achieving that goal in the most bizarre fashion. The bottom line is these endless debates, caucuses and people who have little in common in spite of what they say, this campaign is NO WAY TO WIN AN ELECTION. It's a disaster and can I say I'm surprised? Where is the politics of the "big tent"? It's baloney and if I wanted baloney I'd be a Republican. Sanders didn't win last night, TRUMP DID. I hope they're all happy especially the loudest provocateur last night, Miss Elizabeth Warren. Based on her conduct last night, I would ONLY vote for her if she happened to trip into the nomination, and then only by holding my nose to do it.
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Bernie’s ideas aren’t bad but he just seems so angry to me. And so do many of his supporters. I’m tired of a politician who generates that type of negative emotion. Liz Warren is the optimistic, rational and hopeful version of Bernie. She has my vote in 2020.
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Bloomberg did not have a myocardial infarction, Sanders did. There is a world of difference, and Sanders overtly lied about it.
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@LTJ He didn’t lie. 3 days after the event, Sanders’ cardiologist released a detailed report on the myocardial infarction, treatment, status, and prognosis.
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@Jen
Going forward though he is saying nothing further about his health.
He reminds me of Trump in many ways.
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@LTJ
You are splitting hairs. No one has stents implanted without a serious health issue prompting it. That is what matters.
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Sanders is not lucky -- he's a once-in-a-lifetime political visionary who refuses to go along with the status quo. I'm thrilled that he's leading the polls.
I'm a physician in Ohio, and I take care of poor patients and wealthy patients. Wealthy people are fine, obviously. However, there are A LOT of people in the USA that are suffering terribly due to poverty and low wages. This doesn't get talked about enough in the national press.
The populist anger helped fuel Trump, against immigrants and other non-threats. It's also helping fuel Bernie supporters. But instead of anger at Mexicans, they want equity for Americans and more fairness.
The problem is, the NYT and other major national outlets are not in touch with everyday Americans. There is an elitist mindset at CNN, MSNBC, and this paper.
There are Bernie policies that don't make sense to me (national rent control, etc.). But health care for all via Medicare for All is absolutely needed, now. If you don't understand why, you have not studied the issue.
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@MC Doctor C, I'd love to see medicare for all. But I wish it had not become the lightning rod that it has within the Democratic primary. I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon, not least because it dismantles an entire system and dislocates so many employees, and not least because not enough people believe it can happen. That's unfortunate. But it's the way it is.
Ms. Warren has recognized the fact and made adjustments. It seems to me that Bernie is just not good at making adjustments. Mayor Pete is one who would rather succeed at a moderate goal than fail at a grand one. I remember how amazingly difficult it was for even the inadquate "Obamacare" plan to get through, and how the Clinton's efforts to get a good health care plan through derailed Bill's first term.
(Darn it, Nixon, who I despised, probably would have gotten a decent single payer plan through, but that was then. Darn. The ironies abound.)
Bernie's too tagable: he'll instantly be tagged "communist", which we all know is not true, but it'll stick. More ironies, given today's new about Russian interference in the 2020 election.
My argument: it's time to get real. For me that's boiling down to Warren, Klobuchar, or Buttigieg, maybe Biden. Pretty much in that order.
Let us pray.
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@Mark
If you want someone who can beat Trump in hand-to hand combat, the only one who can do it is a fellow New Yorker, richer, more canny and more intelligent than Trump. We must keep our eye on the prize, which is to beat Trump. Without that all the medical plans in the world won't see the light of day.
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@Mark As long as "we all know" that Bernie is NOT a communist - and we ALL vote should he become the nominee - we should not have a problem. There are far more Democrats and Democratic leaning Independents than there are Republicans. I am tired of getting told that in spite of what ALL of us think and know, somehow the leading candidate in the Democratic will not get the votes.
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