Why does the facility need to get the daughter's consent?
Isn't Dad an adult?
3
On so may levels, I was repulsed by Stacey Zapalac and her reaction to her father's situation. Most of all I feel sorry for her father and having a daughter sho appears to be terribly uncaring and dismissive. She is obviously scarred by her upbringing and unable to see her father as a real human being with feelings and needs. Therapy for her should be priority number 1. The statute of limitations for blaming her father has long run out and she desperately requires an attitude adjustment. I would be relieved my father was functioning well and able to have sex and find a partner he likes and shares a mutual attraction. I would be embarrassed to have a daughter, wife or sibling with her attitude and lack of compassion. I wish I could visit her father and speak to him and praise him for living like he does. It is highly likely Stacey's husband and/or lovers would not find her a great lover or partner. Shockingly terrible to treat your parents like this.
1
Oh, come on! He's 80+ so he's not supposed to have sex? What rock has the writer been living under? The conversation should be easy if the writer were a mature person : discuss communicable diseases and how protection is good for both parties, discuss feelings and supportiveness, and leave out the puerile judgement. Someday we'll all be old, and I for one wouldn't want anyone judging me about my sexual desires. Support the man, don't judge him through your own narrow lens...
3
I'm flabbergasted. I hope that bringing this issue up at all sounds reasonable only to (some, hopefully a few) Americans! Mind your own business and let your father have his sex life in peace.
4
This article is truly appalling and condescending on so many levels. The writer is clearly very angry at dad and unable to discuss this with him, ergo vents her adolescent angst in the pages of the NYT. In fact, she seems ticked off she must waste time phoning dear dad as he does not use a computer or smartphone! (how dare he)
To long for touch and connection does not have an expiration date. It is discouraging and depressing that older adults are infantilized: abolishing their rights to privacy and free choice with sexual desire viewed as repugnant.
If one of my children betrayed me like Ms. Zapalac so glibly does here, I would place a hex on them forevermore. (I find it highly suspect that dad would give "permission" to be publicly humiliated in front of a huge global audience.)
4
@Sarah -Thank you for writing so clearly how I felt after reading the article! I agree that with his diminished cognitive capacity, it is odd she would accept his permission in full to publish this and attempt to injure him with the article. A shameful daughter. Please do put the HEX on Stacy in any case!. thank you
I hate these stories that children write about their cognitively challenged parents. Did the author ASK her father if he minded the intrusive story about his sex life being published in the NYT!? That’s the conversation she ought to have had. Because he’s old and because this really is all about her, she runs roughshod over his right to privacy.
3
Absolutely awful--one of the worst things I've read in the Times. The father is an adult, not a child. The author clearly has issues with sexuality and her family's dynamics that render her unfit to meddling in his "affairs." The "dry heave" comment is so ageist it makes me want to throw up.
5
So, the author was comfortable with getting a call that her father was dead, but not that her father was having sex? This is an article that tries to get a few laughs out of the old trope about how inappropriate it is for people over a certain age to be sexual beings. That the Times thought it valuable is disappointing.
5
As a 60-something year old woman, I found the author's attitude toward sex in the aging not only condescending, but outright disturbing. Why would she "heave" at the thought of her father having sex with a consenting adult? And her extreme embarrassment at having to speak with her father about using protection??? Grow up!
3
I could hardly read this whole essay because of the incredibly distasteful and dysfunctional approach and perspective of the author. I pity both her and her father. She should get a therapist for herself. That's number one. Her infantilization of her dad, narrow and parochial approach to human sexuality, and self-pity party do not belong in the New York Times.
2
The author seems to have trampled all over her father's right to die with dignity. I hope she feels better.
3
"resisted the urge to dry heave" - sexually stigmatizing the elderly is just one of the major sexual dysfunctions I'm noticing in this author. Her shame is so obvious; the way she is going to be 'open' by showing her daughter graphic images of STD's or just thrusting an American Girl puberty book in her hands... it's an obvious continuation of the silence and taboo surrounding sex in American society, and she's merely perpetuating her dad's own shortcomings. This made me really sad.
Also preventing her dad from having sex until she could come in and control the situation! Tragic.
6
The disgust this author feels towards her father's totally understandable desires is wild! He's "needy" because he wants to have sexual intimacy in the last chapter of his life?! And, at 80, why waste time if you're into it?! I am so sad for this father and this writer. I hope he gets it on all the time and has great fun. (And wraps it up, for the stds, if risky behaviors occur.)
2
Your father is free to decide about his life. He is not a teenager. Treat his desires with respect. Sex is like food. Some people like broccoli; some people have to dress it up with cheese sauce; for some it makes them queasy. Your dad has decided his own tastes. Why would you judge being human?
2
Never thought I was a prude but I guess I am around elder sex. I'd rather not know about it! A matter best kept private.
The author's father is obviously an adult. Why should the daughter be involved with this ? Doesn't he have privacy rights?
That this made everyone so uncomfortable is a problem also. The social worker, as a professional, should have been able to handle this without embarrassment. She also shouldn't have notified the daughter in the first place unless there are circumstances I don't understand. Finally, I think it is a very safe assumption for all of us that our parents were sexually active adults. Why would the daughter be so shocked that her father might want to continue this part of his life?
4
Sharing love and lust at any age is beautiful.
1
One of the great pleasures in life is having sex with loving partners. But...there seems to be an army of people out there who want the world to do it their way from the Catholic Church to the Mormans to the Muslims, and even family members. I understand that younger people don't know how to handle the subject of aging. Half of my friends have serious health problems and the other half are doing triathlons.
I'm age 83 in good health and happily married. But...if I was single, family members or not, I'd tell them to mind their own business. When I'm in hospice with two weeks left to live, I'll let them give me suggestions, maybe I'll get some new ideas to keep going for another ten years.
2
I'm confused, why did the nursing home ask the daughter for permission to give her father condoms? seems if he was cognizant, to allow sexual activity between 2 consenting adults, was none of the daughters business, and the nursing home or the lady friend's. Sounds like a HIPPA violation. If on the other hand, her father was a serial grouper and initiating unwanted sexual activity, or complaints from other residents, that should be the only discussion with the daughter.
2
What a shame that Stacey is more concerned with putting her father under her thumb because how he treated her mother than she is with her father's health and happiness. The STD rate in retirement communities and nursing homes is astounding. Also, is seems that Stacey relishes the fact that her father will, if she has her way, die alone without the warmth of human companionship. Hopefully, her daughter is paying attention and will follow suit when Stacey is old, grey and, hopefully, alone.
As the author points out, there seems to be a real information gap here about a real matter affecting an increasing elderly cohort. Nevertheless, there are an abundance of opinions and uninformed comments to fill the vacuum. Maybe some more medical and social investigation of the topic would be appropriate.
Not funny at all. Just reveals how heavily the author's unresolved issues will weigh on her ability to help her father at this period of his life. I suggest she get him what he's asked for and mind her own business (which should consist, at the moment, of finding a qualified psychotherapist for herself).
36
@Clifton Long Thank you. You put it much better that I ever could.
I don't see how having a "talk" with a parent with "cognitive limitations" about one of the most basic of human drives is going to change the situation in any way whatsoever. The drive and the cognitive limitation both remain. I know talking to my parent with cognitive limitations about sex would change exactly zip. I would say the more uncomfortable issue is that he seems to be identifying short stay women in the rehab facility as "love objects". That's kind of creepy, and potentially more of a concern.
7
Well, at least the father of Ms. Zapalac and his new flame knew each other for several weeks already, contrary to too many people who have a one-night stand the day they meet.
I find it also very disturbing that she wants to teach her fourth grade daughter, who would be about 9 years old, about the travails of puberty.
Yes, the age of puberty is going down, but 9 year old ones?
To me the writer seems too obsessed with sex in general.
8
@Sarah Yes. 9 years. When there are questions, parents provide answers, discussion, resources. There is nothing wrong with that. Judging and mom-shamIng are trending.
7
@Sarah "too many people ... have a one-night stand the day they meet."
How many people are "too many people," Sarah? And how did discover that number? How is that any of your business, in any case? That's exactly how I met my wife of 55 years: a one-night stand evolved into a half-century of love and happiness. Certainly, it's true that not every one-night stand has an ending worth mentioning. But that's also true even of relationships consisting entirely of years of sexless "courting" and it's true of every kind of relationship across the spectrum of possible forms of relationship. Sometimes, you eat the bear. Sometimes, the bear eats you. You never know. Teaching boys that girls who fall deeply into love with them at first meeting are, by definition, unworthy of a serious relationship is disgusting. And, even if it's merely lust and not love, so what? It's a lovely way to spend an evening!
1
Rates of STDs among the elderly are on the rise. Just because you can't get pregnant doesn't mean you can't catch a disease. Have the talk!! It'll be fine. Clearly, the man has had sex before.
11
My hero!
4
This whole article is so condescending it makes ME want to heave.
45
LCSW speaking here: It's disturbing that the social worker would call the daughter and report this information. And then to make light of the situation is just sad.
29
This whole article scares the living bejesus out of me. We’re entering into some authoritarian era where meddling busybodies are being legitimized in their boundary-less behaviors. Not only do consenting adults need to be left alone, but just because someone is in a long-term care facility, it does NOT mean they are in prison. These guests need to be given their autonomy and the author needs to get her nose out of it. At the very most the couple needs to be reminded to go into one of their bedrooms, and not make others uncomfortable. And THAT IS IT. As long as we are not talking about rape — which does happen in these facilities, and which they often do not address — leave consenting adults alone!
52
The sharp rise in STDs in nursing home patients may have gotten lost in the author's humorous take on her understandable discomfort with having "the talk" with her dad.
Contracting (and spreading) syphilis or genital warts is more serious at 86 than it is at 26. Squeamishness aside, it's not an unreasonable concern for children of elderly parents with "cognitive limitations."
Unfortunately, many of us may reach the take-away-the-car-keys stage when we're less capable of making reasoned decisions for ourselves. And like driving, unprotected sex is not a one-way street... it has the potential to harm others.
7
Why do we find the idea of our parents having sex disgusting?
I don't need to know details about my parents' sex life but I certainly want them to be healthy and happy, what ever that means for them. And I want them to enjoy their bodies and have a sensual, fulfilling connection with whatever willing partner they desire. Without this sexual connection, I wouldn't be here!
We Americans can be so squeamish about one of the most wonderful things in this world!
39
She's a comedy writer guys. She's treating an awkward situation with humor.
13
Saturday Night Live had a sketch on sex among elderly nursing home patients several years ago. They treated the topic with much more dignity and gentle-ness than this writer did with her father.
28
It seems that, unless the elderly father is mentally incompetent, the daughter has no right to prevent him from obtaining the means to have safe sex. The fact that this is an issue probably means he’s not incompetent since ED is usually a symptom of atherosclerosis and dementia.
If I was the father without a court appointed legal guardian, I’d tell her to MYOB and the facility to address such matters while I’m competent with me alone. If he is incompetent with a court appointed guardian, then this is a very curious and befuddling matter indeed.
19
@James McNeill She says he has cognitive limitations. She also points out that ED medications are commonplace. Even if he doesn't have a prescription, he can probably "borrow" from someone else. Not to mention, she got his permission to write about it.
7
@Victoria I’m confused, so he is has “cognitive limitations” when it comes to deciding on having sex but not when giving consent to his daughter to write about his sex life?
3
TMI! I doubt the dad really wants this information revealed. Too bad the Chicago-based writer couldn't find less exploitative material to publish.
24
Talk about much ado about nothing. He's an adult, not a child. Let the Social Worker do her job and give him the contraceptives. This read to me as the author punishing her father for his prior sexual transgressions against her mother. Understandable, but ultimately not a path to healing for her (or their relationship). Also, knowing someone "for a couple of weeks" is an entirely appropriate length of time for two consenting adults to decide to have sex. I sense an undercurrent of ageism in the author's attitude as well.
52
@Fellow Elite Runner They aren't going to give him those contraceptives for free. And no doubt, the daughter gets and pays those bills from the facility so she will find out about them. Lighten up, people. This was an amusing piece about a topic that is often uncomfortable for most people to discuss in polite society.
6
@Karen K - maybe free condoms for retirees ... or maybe we should crowd fund for condoms because they are soooo expensive.
I think the social worker's call may ha ve been more to alert an obviously unsuspecting daughter about her father's activities.
1
@keb Agree, but why did that seem necessary? The way we infantilize elders is crazy.
12
@keb its not the daughter's concern
I think at 80 he and his partner are consenting adults. Why would the nursing home even notify the child in this case.
42
@bored critic Most nursing home facilities require someone to assist in making decisions about patients and have the legal right to do so.
4
And yonder all before us lie
Deserts of vast eternity.
Thy beauty shall no more be found;
Nor, in thy marble vault, shall sound
My echoing song; then worms shall try
That long-preserved virginity,
And your quaint honour turn to dust,
And into ashes all my lust;
The grave’s a fine and private place,
But none, I think, do there embrace.
19
@margaret_h
Poem by Andrew Marvell, "To His Coy Mistress", right?
5
@margaret_h
And at my back I always hear
Time's winged chariot, hurrying near.
10
@margaret_h
GREAT Margaret - thank you for being sane and poetically understated ... so much more inspired to read than the moronic article!
Ummm, why does the author treat her father like her fourth grader? This article is offensive, not because of the topic but because of the way the author belittles her dad. It's a bad joke that isn't funny and has no punch line.
57
Problem is that many elderly with cognitive impairment *are* functioning at a fourth grade level or below. I sometimes feel like the one who is my caregiving responsibility (& life partner) functions like about a four year old. Till you walk in those shoes, don’t be so judgmental. The fact of the matter is that reality poses ethical dilemmas daily.
22
@Caregiver So WHAT? At 80 the poor fella has limited life remaining and should live in the richness of any and all shared companionship that is offered. However, if he is taking advantage of cognitively impaired ladies that's an entirely different matter.
15
Huh? Doesn’t “contraceptives” mean birth control? Shouldn’t the condoms be called “STD protection” or something like that?
21
I don't understand why the facility had to ask the son about condoms for his father!
15
@Rita
In my experience, assisted living facilities are bound by law to keep the designated legal guardian informed of all "events" outside the norm. Plus, it's for the facility's protection that the family are aware of Mom / Dad's risky behavior and of the need for protection.
16
@Rita I think "Stacey" is a woman Rita, but I agree with your question. Her father is only five years older than I, and although my daughter tries to always tell me what to do, or not to do, they're always attempts to make me do things she thinks will help me live longer. Stacey in this case is, in my opinion, also guided by her love and concern for her father, and is mainly concerned about him being hurt, but she sure did dodge a bullet this time. My daughter is more fortunate because her mother and I are still very much together, and I fully expect to depart first.
3
@Marian Poppycock. This officious behavior is an affront to anyone who has lived more than 18 years. Sex is not “an event outside the norm.” This whole article scares the living bejesus out of me. We’re entering into some authoritarian era where meddling busybodies are being legitimized in their boundary-less behaviors. Consenting adults need to be left alone.
13
This article reminds me, yet again, how lucky I was to grow up in a family where it was OK to talk about sex. This was in the 1950s and 60s, so my parents were ahead of their time. I hope it will never come to this, but if my mom were to become cognitively impaired enough to need a legal guardian, and if sex became an issue that I needed to discuss with her (ONLY if she was too impaired to make an informed decision on her own), I would have no trouble at all doing so.
10
It only takes a quick internet search to find out that the percentages of older adults with STIs are increasing every year. A very large number of older men strongly believe that once there is no fear of pregnancy they do not need to use condoms.
That is the reason for the increase in STIs.
Hence many of these older men absolutely need to get the talk from their kids about using condoms.
18
@SM
Resident facilities and healthcare providers are the first line of communicators when it comes to elderhealth, One need not presume it must absoluley be adult children that do it. Are kids banging down the doors to make sure their parents get their flu shots which is an enormous threat to this demographic? Or has this issue been holistically incorporated in to eldercare with great success? It has. And eldercare sexuality can be brought in as standard of care as well so it can be directly addressed with these adult men and women. Third parties being involved only if individual circumstances warrant. Families shouldn't inject themselves between these older adults and their healthcare providers unless issues of competency exist or residents decide. Information about sexual health should be on par with nutrition, vaccinations and other concerns that are routinely addressed as standard of care by healthcare providers and administrators that manage resident facilities.
13
Maybe nurses and doctors should also discuss the issue.
3
@SM I hear you about STI's but what impact are we really talking about to their lives? If one is in their 80's - the next day could be the beginning of the end. What STI is going to shorten their life sufficiently to offset the companionship we all require to live happily.
5
I sincerely hope my daughter doesn't come to regard me as this writer regards her father. Because he has age-related frailties, he can't live life and relate to other human beings as he desires unless she approves his actions? This idea that we "parent" our elders by caring for them is a revealing term, perhaps giving permission to adult children to claim unwarranted prerogatives.
36
The subject matter of the article wasn’t offensive nor even the author’s trepidation about having the conversation about condoms with her father. No, it was the weird and juvenile euphemisms for sexual activity and the snarky way she represented sex between older people. Even if her father has some cognitive challenges and is “80 something” he is still a person with legitimate needs and desires. What an ugly and disrespectful way to treat this subject matter. She is the one with issues.
54
@Tracy Maybe parents should keep their future frailty in mind when they talk to their children. Then when the time comes, respect is more likely to be mutual. Dad sounds like he was a piece of command-and-control, my-way-or-the highway work back in the day.
5
Guy is 80. Pregnancy and HIV aren’t really concerns and anything else is either easily cured with antibiotics or won’t be a real problem for the sort duration of his life. What exactly is the problem? Is this satire and I’m missing it?
15
@Michael L. - Why assume that HIV isn't an issue? A 75-year-old, for example, would have been in their late 30s when the HIV epidemic began in the early 1980s, and could have picked it up anytime in the almost 40 years since then. And what about herpes, which can certainly cause discomfort, or genital warts? Or what about something that HE could transmit to another person?
16
@Michael L.
He's involved with other women. They matter too.
8
@Marian ...this is between TWO consenting adults.
2
Here is someone who talks about "parenting her parent" (which I find demeaning), and in the second breath she's squirming over the idea of her father having intimate relations with someone. It made me want to say, "Grow the heck up."
In my caregiving years, there were times when I regretted the things I said, but through it all, I still had deep respect for both my parents, and admiration for their courage. It is no easy task to grow old in this country with dignity intact, yet my parents managed it, sometimes fiercely, and often with good humor.
39
@JH Respect is earned. Dad was making out with someone in a common room, which means either he has no consideration for those around him, or impaired judgment, or both. You seem to be allowing no slack for someone who uses humor to manage an awkward situation.
6
Absent some serious cognitive disabilities, this story seems just bizarre to me. Americans' sexual hangups, coupled with the condescending treatment of the elderly, make a toxic brew. The moral of the story for me, still in my 50s, is to have hard conversations right now about who will and will not be allowed to take part in such conversations on my behalf. I sure hope family members who have such power will not be thinking "ewww, Mom has only been gone for a few years" or "ewww, he's had other relationships" or "ewww, old people are so promiscuous!" The only person who needs that children's book is the author, not her father. Yes, Stacey, adults have sex, even the ones in your family. And no, that doesn't get turned off like a faucet at a magic age. Thank God.
36
The fact that dad's liason is consensual, is public, and that he apparently has already broached prophylaxis says that he understands how it works.
The fact that Ms. Zapalac is with us, and that she apparently doesn't have 25 siblings, is also a good sign that protection is well understood.
So whose business is this exactly? Stacey, sorry that you as an adult still can't imagine your parent might actually - gasp - have sex?!?
He was a player in the past, while still married to a living person. Can it really be a shocker that as a free agent his interests are aroused anew?
24
@Brian I didn't make the same assumption, that the gentleman had requested prophylactics...It wasn't clear why the social worker was asking permission to issue "contraceptives" (if the father requested them or what). On the surface, it seems like a breach of privacy. Presumably there is more going on here. Will striving for connection with others improve his quality of life?
5
@Dee "Will striving for connection with others improve his quality of life?" Absolutely.
AS humans we all need connections - we are social animals.
5
I haven't read all the comments, so perhaps someone else suggested testing both of the consenting adults for STDs which would tell them if they needed to use protection. Is there any other reason to use it?
14
@fall-girl That was my first thought.
2
As I read this article to my husband, at first we chuckled. Then we both got really angry. My husband will be 80 years old in a few short weeks. We have a happy and healthy sex life, as do plenty of people our ages. It sounds to me like the daughter and the system are the problems.
Why, for example, is this seemingly healthy man in assisted living in the first place? Is it that no-one in the family has the time or the desire to make a place for him in their lives?
And why can't assisted living centers respect the personhood of its clients enough to respect their basic needs for human intimacy and the privacy that it entails?
It sounds to me like Ms. Zapalac is still living in her pre-pubescent world, where the notion of parents having sex is icky. Her reported conversation with the employee was embarrassing - not that her father was pursuing an intimate relationship with an obviously willing woman, but that she would react like a prudish teenager, with no apparent respect for her father.
Among the congregation in which I work are a number of married and widowed men and women between the ages of 80 and 99.
Marta Casals was 21 when she married the 81-year-old Pablo Casals. They had 13 happy years together. My advice to Ms. Zapalac is, grow up. Put yourself in your father's shoes. Have some respect for him and his personal needs.
58
@Rev. Roz
To be fair, she mentioned he has "cognitive issues". Maybe it's as simple as he's prone to wander away and needs to be in the secure wing.
10
@Marian
Or perhaps it is exactly the issue that is described in the article : openly "kissing and heavy petting" in a common area. No impaired judgment there, right ?
He certainly seems to have the morals of an alley cat, since he's already onto a new conquest but honestly, if he is over 80 and in a nursing home, and he hasn't gotten over adolescence by now, there are bigger issues, including respect, at play here.
7
@Rev. Roz You are making so many assumptions there. Her father doesn't have the decency to keep his activities in a private room, and he obviously is quick to jump into bed with women he hardly knows. And since he obviously didn't respect her mother, I'd bet he's done plenty to disrespect plenty of other women as well.
3
The nursing facility has to charge the patient for the condoms. If the writer is signing off on the bills she has to approve the purchase.
12
Seems like it's none of your business. Leave your father alone.
29
Let the old man have his joy. What's wrong with you?
41
It’s amazing the things that people get hung up on
26
I applaud Stacey for sharing what some commenters have deemed as “oversharing”. I can’t imagine how I would have responded to that call, but I think it was necessary. Imagine the health implications of an elderly person contracting an STD. Their immune system could be compromised. Imagine someone unknowingly passing an STD on to others in the same facility. To those who find this story to be an invasion of privacy, or inappropriate — try to imagine if your Mom was in a nursing home and you received a call to tell you that she had contracted an STD from one of the men at the facility. Worse case scenario but most certainly a possibility.
22
@Alish Sexism much? Why does the common theme here seem to present Mom as the unwitting recipient of an STD...when it's statistically indicted that men are more likely to be symptomatic and women more likely to be an asymptomatic carrier?
3
Because, symptomatic or not, it is easy for women to contract STDs. Many women have no symptoms, but the STD ravages their reproductive tract. This seems worse to me than having detectable symptoms. Also, women are sexually assaulted by men (patients and staff) in nursing facilities. It is not at all unheard of.
6
@Alish but how would denying them condoms protect them from contracting an STD?
Honestly, I doubt they'd use them anyway, talk or no talk.
3
My father was 91 and living in a secure care facility because he had Alzheimers. He and a woman who also had Alzheimers began having sexual relations. I was asked by his caretakers what I wanted to be done regarding this. I told them I had absolutely no problem with it and to let him and her enjoy it. A few months later he had to have a catheter and was no longer interested in having sex. He died at 92 and I was happy that he had been happy.
59
@Lyse Chartrand YAY! ...well done!
4
We are fraught over sex, which may or may not take place. Intimate touching could take place in a private place with willing partners. Human touch is very comforting at any age.
26
Another good reason to avoid nursing homes and assisted living if at all possible. Abandon your dignity all who enter here.
23
The word is prophylactics, not contraceptive. And you’d think someone worried about her father contracting an STI would have given approval to use them right away.
40
Wow, seems like an awful lot of judging in the comments. The author is doing the best she can and is pretty honest about her personal feelings and difficulties. She wrote a funny and vulnerable piece. Judging others is an easy way to feel superior. Lay off!
37
@carolyn It was only funny until I thought about it - now I think it's a sad example of age-ism.
25
I might have missed this in the article, but did the author indicate she sought and had her father’s permission to reveal such an intimate part of his life? I don’t know about you, but I sure hope my daughters don’t take it upon themselves to publish an article about my sex life if I am still alive in 15 years!
15
@Steve Bucklin it literally says it in the article.
18
@Yo Nathan
Tossing in a parenthetical about consent reads as a disingenuous effort on the part of the author and rings hollow. Did the father read this piece itself or simply consent to the general abstract premise (how children address sexual activity in their elderly parents)? It may be likely (really, isn't most likely?) that he had no idea the disucussion would include violation of his dignity with the jaundiced priggish presentation of his life and sexuality and the prurient rehash of his shortcomings as a man and father, his neediness, the intimacies of his marriage etc.
In truth, there's a problem with the writer's lack of faith in her father's competency when it comes to his own body and relationships and her professed confidence that he "consented" to the tone, subtext and content of this essay. I think there's likely significant disparity in what her father believes he consented to and what his daughter did here. Ethically, morally and legally questionable.
9
She says she got his permission, but if he is competent enough to understand and consent to his privacy being violated in the newspaper of record, he is competent enough to make his own decisions about sex without a "talk" from his daughter.
3
This article title is misleading. Contraceptives implies birth control. I doubt his lady friend has not gone through menopause. Adults 65 are spreading HIV fast and should use protection against the spread of this, STDs and STIs.
15
@Jessica They should be tested for STIs Period
3
How is it that we assume that age means that we do not enjoy the things we enjoyed before we aged. I was horrified over the writer's reaction to the thought of her father having sex. Really?? How selfish. If we are truly concerned about our parents well being, this issue should be considered carefully and thoughtfully. There are many factors involved, ensuring consent, the effect on one's overall health, etc. To diminish or make fun of one's desire to continue to engage in intimacy is ageism, pure and simple. A warning for the daughter, she's not getting younger and there will come the day when her children or caretakers may confront the same issue. I sincerely hope for her that they are more thoughtful when considering it.
26
Sexual activity between consenting adults is NOT the problem here, even if they are older.
There are however multiple problems here:
The daughter’s personal issues with sex in general.
The daughter’s unresolved anger over her father’s unfaithfulness.
Suboptimal patient privacy at extremes of age.
The daughter’s contradicting use of her father’s alleged cognitive status. Either he’s cognitively able to make his own decisions regarding sex without her interference or he’s not cognitively able to give consent for this to be published. In either scenario, this article wouldn’t exist.
The daughter should seek a therapist as soon as possible to deal with her unresolved anger and her sexual problems.
46
@Tony S
Thank you. The tough part here is that the author needs strangers to point the issues out (to her).
14
@Tony S "The daughter’s contradicting use of her father’s alleged cognitive status. Either he’s cognitively able to make his own decisions regarding sex without her interference or he’s not cognitively able to give consent for this to be published. In either scenario, this article wouldn’t exist."
You hit the nail on the head. Something icky is going on here, but it's not her father's desire to have sex with a consenting adult woman.
6
@Tony S Exactly!
1
I find it interesting that many comments here express moral outrage at the absurdity of trying to control the sex lives of the elderly. It is simply the mirror image of our puritanical culture trying to control the sex lives of teenagers. Healthy and safe consensual sex should be affirmed for everyone who feels ready, including teenagers and octogenarians.
24
Being the Power of Attorney and guardian for my elderly mother has some challenges. She has dementia. Some days it's 1957. Other days it's 1944. Sometimes she knows me, others she's confused. I take care of all the paperwork and bills. I don't mind sharing this with you since many other people are in a similar situation. But I would NOT publish anything regarding my mother's sex life. Some things should remain private. The writer should have passed on writing this article. JMHO YMMV.
26
80 is only 7 years older than Trump, 3 years older than Biden, 2 years older than Bernie Sanders, and one year older than Nancy Pelosi.
28
@Kay Sieverding Excellent point!
11
@Kay Sieverding - And 10 years younger than my mom, who still works full-time!
12
My late uncle was 99 when he died. He lived pretty much on his own until a few years before his death. But he had a girlfriend of ten years younger, whom he courted soon after his wife of 60 years died. “Why so fast?” I asked. “Because at my age you don’t have a lot of time and have to act fast.”
32
"Condoms" is the appropriate word here; contraception is not necessary.
13
My father was 65 when I was born. Maybe someone should have talked to him about birth control.
7
Parents need to very careful when choosing the right summer camp for their children. These children, when grown up, will pick a nursing home for their parents --- and may think they have some kind of right to enforce celibacy on a competent adult.
22
Since when does an offspring have any say over their parent's sex life? Seems to me the only problem here is with the writer. Who gave her ANY say over her father's sex life? Since when is it any of her business?
22
When a child has endured the pain of a cheating parent, perhaps the thought of this parent’s sexual urges is difficult.
If the snf needs the daughter’s permission regarding contraceptives, obviously the dad is not mentally capable of making his own decisions - about anything. And the daughter is legally responsible, then. That looks like the case here.
It’s easy to say let the dad just be happy, just live life to the fullest, let him have his fun. After all - sex is normal!
But although this may be “normal” - these sexual encounters may be unwanted by the women, even though dad thinks they are in love. The women may be demented, or not in charge of making decisions for themselves either. Wonder what their relatives in charge are experiencing.
Sounds like supporters here are of the mentality “boys will be boys” no matter.
As a nurse with experience in a snf/rehab, I do feel for this daughter. And I feel sorry for the dismissive comments she’s received here. When people are mentally incompetent - the line to be drawn is certainly not clear.
22
@MIMA
On the other hand the women/woman might really really yearn for sex....
10
@MIMA If you read the article, you will know that the woman involved was not demented - she was at the assisted living facility for rehab and left shortly after the daughter got her knickers in a twist about dad hugging and kissing.
7
Why would an 80-something year-old need permission from anyone?
16
I’m confused as to why the social worker was seeking permission to give “contraceptives” to an adult. Whatever relationship this patient was having, as long as it is mutually consensual, is no one else’s business. STD’s are on the rise among seniors. So put a bowl of condoms on the table in the common room and let the patients enjoy!
24
This is the second article in two days that NYT has published regarding the active lives of 80 year olds. The first was the woman wringing her hands about her elderly parents’ divorce. In both articles, the lack of respect shown by the children to their parents has left me gobsmacked. Old lady mom & old man dad want to break up after 60 years of marriage? Ok. Octogenarian dad wants to score in the old folks home? Ok. As long as no one in any situation is harmed, emotionally or physically, deal with it adult child.
Does it always have to be about you? Good grief...
30
His article stigmatizes aging. In the writer’s words, when told her father has sexual desires ”I tried to hold back my urge to dry heave”. Why? Because her father was still interested in sex in his 80s? Because he had in fact been amorous? And is her father mentally incompetent?
If my parents were sexually actively in their 80s and 90s ( and for all I know they were) I’d consider it none of my business to discuss safe sex with them. And I certainly wouldn’t consider treating 80 year old adults like sexually naive adolescents...let alone dry heaving.
26
Mind your own business and let your dad enjoy the time he has left. With luck, you’ll be in the same situation in a few decades.
18
I can believe why in this world a facility need to ask anybody for permission to give condoms to an adult. old people are adults, if the want to do whatever they want is their business, not anybody else's.
9
As caring as the woman may be, I'm not fathoming how she can be in control of his sex life. Just because someone has some cognitive issues doesn't mean they can't have a sexual relationship. It's stripping him of his dignity and autonomy.
11
My first reaction was disdain for the author. Whether you approve of your father's choices or not, unless he were seriously delusional / mentally unfit (and how would one judge this anyway?) then denying him the right to engage in consensual sex (by not helping him obtain contraception) seems like a weird punishment.
13
Maybe make it a routine for all residents to be checked for STD's and then leave them "alone" (please!).
15
If her father isn’t mentally fit to consent to sex, he can’t consent to this article either.
22
@Alexander Landfair Exactly. She can't have one without the other.
3
If she’s worried about STIs, you’d think she would have approved use of contraception immediately.
13
The most disturbing thing about this article is that the writer would choose to publicize her father's intimate life in a national newspaper. I'd like to know if he approved this? If so, okay, if not, not.
Lately the Times has been publishing all kinds of invasive people, more frequently people writing about their children and stepchildren in ways that convey a sense of ownership over other people's stories.
Writers are mercenaries. But develop some boundaries, please, NYT.
8
@Concerned Mother. Read the article properly. The father did consent to publication.
2
The social worker was supposedly "mortified" and the writer had the urge to vomit, just because Dad wanted to have sex while being old. Seems pretty cruel to me.
24
Does this woman not get that her father KNOWs about safe sex? He obviously practiced some sort of birth control in his life. Can his doc not talk about sexual diseases? This is absurd, she is treating her father like a 12 yr old. That the facility called her is simply amazing to me, like an invasion of her dad's privacy. If he's so senile that he can't comprehend then that is a different thing, but this doesn't sound like he is. I find this insulting to her Dad.
17
I don't understand why the facility sought permission from the resident's daughter? The man is 80 years old. If he wants to have sex, let him. Why get his daughter involved? What a breach of privacy. This is one of the reasons why so many will avoid these facilities at all costs.
13
The author is unbearably naive when she wonders in apparent amazement over her father’s desire to have sex with someone he’s known “for only a few weeks.” Weeks? In men, who are known to be stimulated visually, sexual attraction can be instantaneous. Has the author never heard or a “one night stand?” (This occurs when two people meet, have sex, and then never see one another again. It’s a tremendously common occurrence in television and movies, but perhaps never ever happens in real life.) In such situations, sexual activity happens within minutes of meeting. Perhaps the author will be stunned to learn that her father’s sexual activity with her mother was very likely what later resulted in her own birth.
13
There has recently been a series of this type of article. My elderly parents are divorcing. My father wants contraceptives. Is this the final indignity of old age, that your children use your personal stories to get a byline.
18
It was “contraceptives” adjacent to “80 something” that caught my attention. Because looked like dad was trying to score with someone still in her child bearing years. This is big news outside of Hollywood.
7
Why in the world does the care facility have to ask his daughter if it OK to give Dad a condom? He's a grown-up. This is none of anyone else's business. Perhaps they have some obligation to consult and advise and remind him about safe sex. But for what reason would they need to involve his daughter? Even if he is somewhat cognitively impaired I can only imagine talking with the daughter because they don't think he can understand the principle of safe sex. This all seems rather ridiculous to me.
5
There is really no need to broadcast and comment on your parents' sex lives no matter their age. "dry heave"? Would you like someone to do this to you?
15
Writer, there are better places to try out stand-up comedy routines thab the op-ed pages of the New York Times. Especially ones that aren't particularly funny and reek of ageism.
19
So the talk never happened. . . this article is all innuendo and no reckoning.
5
I can totally sympathize. My dad was a faithful husband and married to my mom for more than 50 years. A few years after my mom passed we moved dad to an assisted living facility. He was 93 with a failing memory. Within two months the woman next door talked him into getting married. Three days later all of dad’s money was in her bank account. 10 grand later the marriage was annulled, most money gotten back. My brother had to fight every step of the way.
8
@Connie That is your story. The man in this story is not demented - sometime being a little forgetful is what all of us are at any age.
And by the way, children are not legally entitled to their parents' money.
7
If they can both consent (and there's not much to go on here), and the facility feels there is no health risk to either, what's the big deal? Provide the condoms, Stacey. There will likely be a next time.
And to to those who are offended by the facility calling this man's daughter: they have to keep the family informed of what's happening with their loved one. I would want to know if my 92-year-old mom had a new flame and to ask questions since I'm responsible for her well-being (and for paying the facility she lives in). But I would NOT prevent her enjoying herself absent abuse or health risk. She's old, not dead.
13
@Kathy Atnip Thank you for your very sensible point. There are two sides to this story, and I believe you explained them very well. I should have the right to know who is associating with my elderly parent, which does not necessarily mean I want to be obstructionist and put a sexual relationship. Regardless of how old the child or the adult is, they should still care about each other's well-being.
@Kathy Atnip
I realize I omitted a couple of words in my reply, which may have caused some confusion. I meant to say, "which does not necessarily mean I want to be obstructionist and put an end to a sexual relationship."
You still gave a very sensible answer, and I apologize for the word gaps in my reply.
I found myself in a similar situation after my mother entered Assisted Living five years after my dad died ! She was then 85 yrs old.
She reluctantly mentioned a "boyfriend" after having a panic attack which sent her to the ER. She thought that we, children and grandchildren would think less of her for having an admirer. After reassuring her that we thought it was the BEST THING ever and Daddy would be thrilled for her, she was finally able to relax and enjoy his attentions.
I accompanied my mother to her gynecologist for a unrelated issue and before the doc came into the room, I had the staff pass her a note explaining Mom's situation. During this exam the physician brought the conversation around to sex. While my Mom said she was not interested in taking things that far, it was good to bring this out in the open.
I am not sure what exactly what my Mom and her beau did in the privacy of their rooms.... Staff kept an eye discreetly on both of them And it certainly was none of my business.
YES, the elderly need to practice safe sex just as the rest of us do. As Mary from Salt Lake mentioned, this is something that should either be discussed in seminar or given to residents as a handout. But , as far as I am concerned , if what we call the Elderly wish to enjoy their time left on this planet, I'm the last one to to be judging !!!
23
Maybe if STIs are actually an issue, the care center should add a seminar on the subject to its other regularly scheduled activities.
43
@Mary This is the only sensible comment I’ve seen here. Yes, STIs are a serious problem for the elderly, and yes, nursing homes should offer seminars.
19
I appreciate the author’s frankness, authentically sharing her experience. That said, I delight in the beautiful abundance of comments that point another direction. Sexuality as natural. Pleasure, at any age, gift. Joy and life and intimacy. For me, these are to be celebrated, at any age. Yay condoms. Yay STI prevention. Yay skilled care facilities as partners in health and wholeness. Yay to us being companions as our parents age. Yay to surprise! And awkwardness. And new territory. May all find more joy—-fullness of life!! At any age!
47
Ms Zapalac has brought up an issue that will effect more and more parent/child relationships as we live longer, many with dementia. Her honesty about her discomfort with actually speaking w her dad about it should be applauded, rather than derided. Her reaction is her reaction—she makes herself vulnerable to us in sharing it. It did not prevent her from eventually discussing sex with her father when she could do so appropriately (and not at the affect of her own reaction.) The issue of safe sex is further complicated by consensual sex, a problematic issue with no clear cut guides or rules when dementia is involved. Is it automatically abusive, say, if one partner has dementia and the other not? (So, the non-dementia resident could be perceived as taking advantage of the dementia resident?) Liability issues yet another complicating factor. I applaud the writer for sharing her experience, and subjecting herself to the holier-than-thou of some responses here.
32
SomethingElse,
I see what you're saying. But the author presented the issue in the form of a stand-up comedy routine, which in my opinion she didn't pull off.
I'm old enough to remember when our elderly next-door neighbors (this would be in the mid-1960's) were placed in separate nursing homes. The wisdom at the time suggested that married couples would be too difficult to 'manage.'
It broke my heart for them then and it breaks my heart to this day when I think back on it.
As my grandmother used to say, 'Just shoot me.'
35
@SomethingElse The author has a problem - one that she needs to deal with before she's old enough to be talked about in this way. If she needed to get this off her chest, she should have chosen a good therapist.
A few years ago, there was an interactive exhibit, "Dialogue with Time, at the Museum for Communication in Frankfurt, Germany. The theme was aging. The group of 20 docents were chosen from among people aged 70 and over. The real star of the show was a woman in her 90s. Among the numerous aspects of aging that were addressed, was the notion that "old folks" and sex don't mix. The topic was discussed in round-tables of teenagers and younger adults. The older I get, the more incensed I am by the infantilizing of older people.
7
@Rev. Roz Could never happen in puritanical America.
I would no sooner deny my father the right to have sex at 91 (He's not gonna) than I would deny him the right to breath in oxygen. However, his last wife was a horrible choice for all involved, both him, her and both sides of the family and I ended up the caregiver for them both before she finally passed away which by all accounts could be described as one huge sigh of relief to all involved. His first wife, my mother was the rock of an entire generation. His second wife was rotten, selfish, greedy and violent. Nobody in their right mind would ever want to see act III.. Now in hindsight I might want to deny him. Back then there really was no such thing as spousal background checks, but even if there had been he would have, like a teenager jumped in completely blind to everything.
14
When any middle-aged person declares they have been the "parent to their parent for quite sometime now" it is more a declaration of dominance than anything else. This man's father is quite obviously still enjoying cognitive independence and has the will to live and love. He should not need his son's permission and the fact that he does should outrage the son, not embarrass him. Your father is very much alive! Celebrate it! Have fun with that conversation. It will all be over soon enough. My stepdad is now unable to communicate. He had a flirtation in the memory care unit last year. My mother and I encouraged it. He was smiling a bit instead of being confused and angry all the time. This whole piece seems like an exercise by the author in publicly outing his philandering father. It ends up revealing a writer with some serious issues. Issues that began when he was a boy and discussions about sex, drugs, smoking and orientation were verboten.
59
@Gowan McAvity, Stacey is the man's daughter -- not his son. That may have something to do with her reticence. Also, she grew up under his rules regarding which topics were open for discussion, and which were not. Go easy on her. She's trying.
29
@ahem...
I realized my pronoun troubles after posting, my apologies. And, perhaps, my experience with elder care and my stepdad made me project a bit, but she really needs to question her reaction of dry heaving and the ageism it reflects. People deserve more respect for what they still are capable of. And giving Stacey a pass because she is a woman reflects a misogyny that I won't get into here. She's a grown woman and can take the truth as well as any man, or should do.
25
@Gowan McAvity Perhaps you have not taken care of an elderly parent, but the comment that being a parent to a parent is a sign of 'dominance' is clearly wrong. Roles do reverse and it has nothing to do with dominance unless that's the way you see parenting all together. Both my parents lived into their 90's and the children had to provide much assistance and guidance in all aspects of their life as they became older .
And @ ahem In regards to the author of this article its' too bad that her upbringing in a household where sex was never discussed has continued to affect her as an adult who seems to be totally hung up on the subject.
13
I've heard that STDs are not unusual in some elder communities, so it's good there was some thought about that. But, considering how there frequently is a lack of staff, how do they know the tryst didn't occur anyway?
14
First, the overall tone--one more concerned with her own emotional discomfort the her father who is no longer able to live independently.
Second, why is the social worker described as being "mortified" by this. This description is totally contrived. A social worker would help the family member understand the situation, not be put off by it. The social worker is there to support the families and help them deal with all sorts of difficult situations.
76
The social worker was probably mortified at how harsh and judgement her patient's daughter was being. I was equally mortified reading this. Her tale of cruelty towards her father was a shocking choice for the NYT to publish on valentines day.
13
How old is the father's lady friend? Did the author mean to say "prophylactics" instead of "contraceptives"? Same device, different purpose.
73
@PM Ya, any woman in a nursing home would be way beyond the childbearing age...lol! I am always offended by those small minded people who think that elderly people lose interest in sex. We are all sexual beings at any age!
6
@PM I’m sure she meant to say what she said. Condoms are also called contraceptives. Almost no one uses the word “prophylactics” anymore.
Reading newspaper comments is like visiting a retirement village by itself....
5
Other than the freely-given consent of the partner, exactly what "permission" does an adult need? The premise here is shockingly patronizing. Beyond ensuring privacy for all concerned, what is the caregiver's interest? Unless the client specifically requested that his child be informed of his romantic status, there's a dreadful betrayal here. More an issue of professional ethics than client morality. Y'all might want to read Elmore Leonard's "Hanging Out at the Buena Vista" or watch Sarah Polley's "Away from Her." All you need is love isn't just for the under-64 set, and good manners and boundaries are for us all.
102
@Ruth Riddick If the article's author is the Guardian ad Litem for her father because of his cognitive issues, she may very well have something to say about her father's sex 'n drugs 'n rock 'n roll (so to speak).
1
Thank you for your comment, you spoke for me. The author's embarrassment is embarrassing. That she had any thought other than, "What do I have to do with my father's social life?"is amazing. Her caretaker's credentials should be revoked.
6
@Ruth Riddick yes, the ageism in this article is glaring. Tbe insulting tone didn’t just slip by the author but those who published it, helping perpetuate the prejudice against those who have the audacity to be sexually passionate when they grow old. It’s not cancer. It’s a normal sex drive. I’m a senior. And I’m insulted and saddened by this article. And a bit alarmed too. Okay, more than a bit.
8
Does the author really have her father's blessing to drop this essay worldwide? Was asking to write about how caregiver's address sex and their elderly parents really a forthright consent request, given what is actually here in print? Did he read this piece itself or simply consent to the general abstract premise? It may be likely he had no idea the disucussion would include violation of his dignity with the jaundiced priggish presentation of his life and sexuality and the prurient rehash of his shortcomings as a man and father, his neediness, the intimacies of his marriage etc.
Tossing in a parenthetical about consent reads as a disingenuous effort on the part of the author and rings hollow. There's more selfishness on display than the author's relief at "dodg(ing) a bullet" in putting off these discussions at that time.
In truth, there's a problem with the writer's lack of faith in her father's competency when it comes to his own body and relationships and her professed confidence that he "consented" to the tone, subtext and content of this essay.
In some real measure, she took advantage of his vulnerability and demeans him while purportedly protecting him from some greater negative associated with engagement in sex as an elderly resident. I find that cringeworthy.
125
There are many thoughtful, serious, and entertaining comments here. Many of them are quite persuasive. Here’s my two cents worth:
My mom was in an assisted-living facility last year. Based exclusively on this single facility, I’m positive I would have also received a phone call informing me that my mom was interested in having a sexual encounter. What if she or her date fell out of the bed? Liability. What if my mom were injured, bleeding, needing a doctor afterwards? Liability.
Condoms are not free. I would have appreciated the concern that my mom needed prophylactic protection, but I would have been expected to pay for this item. I’ll bet that’s why the author was contacted.
The writer clearly wishes her dad had been faithful to her mom. And she still grieves the years of heartache caused by dad’s flirtations and affairs.
24
@TexasReader
Liability concerns do not allow facilities to diminish the abilities and choices of adults...it used to be that nursing homes regularly used either mechanical restraints or chemical restraints, often in the guise of "patient safety", when the real motivations were more complicated, including saving money by having less staff when patients are so controlled.
18
The commenters here are almost all off-base. I had a similar call from my father's nursing home. He had dementia and I was his guardian. I was also guardian for my cognitively-challenged mother who was in the same facility. The didn't share a room because they had different medical needs.
Dad made a suggestive remark to an aide; then staff found him in bed with another resident. She had flirted with him for months. Her family complained. They had the right. She, too, had dementia. The nursing home didn't want charges filed.
I had to tell Dad his behavior was unacceptable. It was awful because he had always been a gentleman and respectful of all women. But, released inhibitions is a signal symptom of dementia. Adult children and institutional staff need to wise up that inappropriate sexual behavior isn't OK at any age.
41
@Ginny
These ladies seem ok with the relationships and not impaired by significant issues that prompt your concern. As an aside, are those with dementia by default doomed to a sexlesss existence going forward? If all parties seem happy to be doing what they are doing, with no emotional distress or exposure to STD, is that necessarily a bad thing to be doing? I am not sure we can always say even dementia means people can't need and benefit from something so fundamental as sexual intimacy and that it should be prevented without question. Hmmm.
36
@Ginny
I am sure your situation was difficult; it is also not the same as the writer's.
She is NOT the legal guardian of her father, as far as we know, and he does NOT have dementia, as far as we know.
Her father's behavior is consistent - for better or worse - throughout his life, according to her...it's NOT a signal sign of dementia.
19
@Name I'm in my 70s. I was abused by my father as a girl and raped several times before my mid-20s.
I've been with my husband just over 50 years, very happy years. But if he died and I developed dementia I would absolutely NOT want to become the sexual plaything of the other men and women in my nursing home.
I've long hoped that a nursing home would protect me from rape--which is essentially the sexual use of someone unable to object. But reading several of these comments has filled me with doubt.
I hope the current "sex is always wonderful!" trend will have faded by then, but I'm having doubts.
19
Another love story ruined by expiration of Medicare skilled nursing facility benefits.
When will this tragedy end!
21
To the commenters who are all for his having a little fun, the author is not worried about pregnancy -- she's worried about STDs, which are apparently on the rise at nursing homes. If he's going to have sex, he needs to use protection. The question is, I suppose, both a legal and a social one -- whose role is it to suggest/guide him toward condoms. It would be nice if the nursing home staff could just pass out condoms with the evening meds, but family members might be angry about it. I guess what I'm saying, is that this is not a cut-and-dried as posters seem to think. Cut the writer some slack.
23
@Reader Totally should be worried about STDs, except how old are these people? What's their life span?
My "friend" and I, in our late 60s have never not used protection in six years and many many encounters.
Sometimes I don't see the point except we are in different cities now, and I don't ask him what he does when we are apart. Using protection makes that easier to deal with.
2
I traveled the road of Alzheimer’s with my dad for 7 years and during that time I did everything possible to protect him on all levels, including any kind of humiliation. I find it sad that the author has publicized such private matters regarding her father. It’s very difficult to watch our parents age and decline, especially from illness. If you can’t be there with love, understanding and compassion, perhaps you should step out of the picture. Or at least refrain from making a joke out of his personal matters and then publishing it in the NYTimes (or anywhere).
60
"I always knew my dad was a needy man. I have muddled memories of my parents’ closed-door arguments about my father’s extracurricular activities with other women.
I knew that his behavior would have brought my mother a combination of anger, humiliation and crippling shame."
Although I understand why many readers have rightly criticized the nursing home for making this call, the subtext for this article is the author's pain her father's "sex life" has caused her and her family.
19
Why should older people not enjoy the pleasures of sexual relationships? Unless they lack the cognitive ability to understand what they are doing and give consent, I see no reason for the care facility to contact family members on this matter. I think they fully understand about STDs and that the facility can and should have a basket of condoms available. For the author to state she got the dry heaves from the very thought of her father being sexually active is juvenile-how did she think she came to be-found under a cabbage leaf perhaps?
47
If there's a problem here, it's the daughter infantilizing her father.
87
This is one of most disheartening pieces addressing elder care that I've read. "Dry heave", "cringeworthy", sardonic and juvenile humor that doesn't just border on disrespectful, but dives right in? Not funny at all.
Yes, there's irony in the role reversal children face with aging parents. There's much room for humor in that reversal, but this essay reads as ugly circumscription of the father's humanity with it's thinly veiled barbs about his shortcomings as a man and father. Zapalac says her father's infidelity caused conflict and upset and as an adult now holds to the strange idea that somehow, this late life behavior must be reflected through her dead mothers wishes and presumed "anger, humiliation and crippling shame". More than a consideration of the issue of sexuality in the elderly, the unfortunate subtext of disgust and negativity seems related to other issues the writer has with her father.
If a caregiver can't address all the aspects of their parent's care respectfully and with a good heart, maybe ask a sibling to step in where one has shortcoming, enlist staff to talk about the important issues in sexual health and get into counseling and a caregiver support group. Don't parade repulsion, prudishness and simmering relationship issues as a humor piece.
74
@Name You nailed it!
2
I'm clearly not alone in my surprise that the Times would publish this piece. I sincerely hope there is a follow-up article addressing the concerns many, many commenters have laid out below.
57
If he is not competent enough to make his own decisions about sexual activity, then he isn’t competent enough to consent to having his amorous experiences written about and published.
85
No, telling this man you want to write about how caregiver's address sex and their elderly parents isn't a forthright consent request. Did he read this piece itself or simply consent to the general abstract premise? It's likely he had no idea the subtext for the disucussion would include violation of his dignity as such with the jaundiced priggish presentation of his life and sexuality and the prurient rehash of his shortcomings as a man and father, his neediness, the intimacies of his marriage.
Tossing in a parenthetical about consent reads as a disingenuous effort on the part of the author and rings hollow. There's more selfishness on display than the author's relief at "dodg(ing) a bullet" in putting off these discussions at that time.
In truth, there's a problem with the writer's lack of faith in her father's competency when it comes to his own body and relationships and her professed confidence that he "consented" to the tone, subtext and content of this essay.
In some real measure, she took advantage of his vulnerability while supposedly protecting him from some greater negative associated with engagement in sex as an elderly resident. I find that cringeworthy.
40
My reaction is "ew", not because the father wants to have sex with a willing partner, but because the writer is so officious about it. What a patronizing tone, and given how undignified life becomes as we age, is it really necessary for the daughter to worry about what two adults want to do with their lives? Does being in assisted living mean they give up all their rights? "Safe sex"?
Because she did not elaborate on his cognitive loss (which might be minimal) there may be reason to worry that a complete lack of inhibition in public places is an issue. But what they do in privacy if it is consensual really should be their own business!
50
@Sara Fasy Thank you Sara for putting it this way. The word "patronizing" came up repeatedly as I read the article and so many of the responses. I hope the author reads these responses and does some worthwhile inner-reflection on who she is as well as who she thinks her father is. They both deserve it.
8
Move on to more elevating topics, Stacey, and be grateful your father has a chance at a little joy and human connection.
28
Until I read this piece, I hadn't realized that Bingo was such a powerful aphrodisiac.
32
@MGM It is, and no hangovers.
1
This reminds me of the creepy prosecution of Henry Rayhons, the retired Iowa state legislator who was tried for having sex with his wife, mostly because his adult stepdaughters decided that their mother was too demented to give consent. A wise C.N.A. once told me that the desire for sex is as elemental as the desire for food and if family members would just accept that, everyone would be happier.
32
If the father is mentally incompetent and the daughter now has legal rights to make adult decisions for her father, that should be made explicit in this piece. Otherwise, this article curdles my blood. It is none of her business what sexual activity her father engages in. Why did the social worker call her? I do understand that the care facility, as a health care provider, probably has a legal responsibility to avoid the spread of sexually transmitted disease through their facility. Dealing with that responsibility by calling the offspring of adults is appalling.
38
When my dad fell into serious dementia decline in his late 70s, he only wanted to eat butter crunch and drink martinis. Idiots were trying to force vegetables on this meat and potatoes party boy. While I had very little voice in his care, blessed with many siblings, I advocated for all the apple turnovers and drinks he wanted. He hated his medication and became very good at pretending to take it.
Sadly he died over supervised by doctors who didn't even notice he had broken his arm until my brothers pointed that out. But they so wanted to regulate his diet.
I only wish he had had a hot date for his last years.
If my kids ever put me in a home, I will break out and start smoking, my guilty pleasure I gave up when I became a mother. Maybe I will take up martinis.
47
Amazingly, the author describes herself on twitter as a "comedy writer."
Some definition of comedy.
25
This attitude is so patronizing, condescending and insulting. It is his business. If the nursing home insists on permission, then give it. Having a 'talk' with him? What could you possibly know that he doesn't already? Consider this -- let him be happy. No matter how much it annoys you.
36
It may be understandable to be shocked and horrified that your parents have or desire to have sex when you are a teenager. Having that response as an adult is what should embarrass this writer, not her father's interest in sex. It is life-affirming and healthy to seek this connection. And it's HIS personal life, his personal business! Why on earth would permission for condoms be necessary for any adult? This article is distressing and depressing.
34
1. Older people have sex. This is both great and reassuring.
2. There are also older people with HIV, Hep B, and STIs. Safer sex practices should be discussed and encouraged.
3. Some older people can’t consent for sexual activity and elder care facilities are required to protect them from being victimized.
4. If the parent has decision making capacity, the adult children have no business interfering although many get upset when/if they find out.
Arguably a couple “getting to third base” in public lacks some degree of judgment irrespective of age. In congregate living situations such as assisted living, these issues can be nuanced and ethically challenging.
18
I don't think that the nursing home should be calling the daughter about this at all. I don't think that she should have written this piece which invades his privacy. But from the description it seems that he is quite indiscriminate and pounces within hours. Relationships are not really what this is about. He is seeking encounters. If the potential partners are also only seeking encounters then I don't think there is harm being done. Although perhaps they no longer have the judgement to seek privacy. In which case it becomes a public problem to be policed by someone. But this is pretty complicated in terms of what is actually consensual and the staff is nervous. It is usual for these urges to diminish after the mid 70's; earlier for some. Still having strong needs and desires at 80 is certainly problematic if you are locked up and closely watched. Poor guy.
10
@Consuelo
Good grief! If you're lucky to live that long, you'll rethink your unfounded opinion. (studies? stats?)
If this is the hardest thing someone has to deal with in managing the end of life issues of a relative or loved one they should consider themselves extremely lucky.
38
To all the critics of this woman and the nursing home about "invading his privacy:" The writer stated that her father has cognitive issues [she doesn't elaborate], and it is apparent that he has been in the nursing facility for a few years [mother died there three years ago and they were together]. So she probably has power of attorney, or he signed a waiver permitting the staff to talk with his daughter--both of which are routine as people in nursing facilities inevitably decline.
That means that the staff at the nursing facility consults with her regarding her father's health and yes his behavior. If he were of both sound mind and body, if he were not declining, he wouldn't be in this facility. He and his lady friend also showed poor judgment by "making out" in a public space designed for residents and families to gather. Some nursing facilities do provide privacy for couples who want to be sexually active.
So until you have been responsible--legally, ethically and morally--for adult parents in a nursing home (our family has dealt with three), until you have worked in a nursing home, don't be so quick to judge.
58
@Kathleen
I agree. This is a health issue, otherwise why the prophylactics? Condoms, in this case, aren't for contraception, they are for disease prevention and a public health measure.
I hope the social worker talked about getting permission to perform routine STD tests as well.
14
A power of attorney is specific ... usually for financial matters... and generally is valid only if the maker is competent. The author has not said she has any legal authority over her father and if she does, that it gives her authority over his sex life and authority to reveal his sex life to the world.
And as many others have pointed out, if he’s not competent to make his own decision about a condom, how is he competent to have given her permission to publish this article disclosing his most personal life details?
Shame on the NYT if it did not consider this before publishing.
18
@Kathleen
You are one of the very few posters who finds this lady's story, the publication of it, and her condescending attitude toward her father in the least bit acceptable. Most see it for what it is - a gross invasion of privacy, an insult to the dignity of the elderly, and a moral judgement of a parent she is neither equipped nor entitled to render.
The most outrageous aspect of this outing of her father as some kind of sex maniac is that she offered it as a column for this newspaper and that newspaper accepted to publish it. As one other poster noted below (Maggie Carter), the daughter holds two views that are diametrically opposed to one another. She believes her father lacks the cognitive capacity to decide this very private matter for himself but at the same time is sufficiently in possession of his faculties to authorize her public disclosure of it.
I hope she is his legal guardian; if not then he or someone who is truly acting in his best interests would be filing some complaints about now.
26
It appears that the social worker may have violated this man's confidentiality. Why is she calling the daughter to discuss this matter at all? The loss of autonomy and violation of privacy is one of the greatest fears of aging persons. It is often difficult to determine when a person's decision-making ability has reached a stage of impairment that puts them at risk serious enough to require intervention. But the situation described does not seem to require such intervention. If the man himself requested condoms, it seems to indicate that he knows exactly what he is doing, and is taking care to protect himself and his partner.
14
Well, my dad was taken to the ER by ambulance yesterday because he took one too many blood pressure meds. He has a whole host of other medical issues that is starting to impact him cognitively. So I wish I were so lucky to deal with “dad is amorous” instead of whether it is right time to invoke “do not resuscitate.” Our aging fathers and mothers deserve privacy, consideration, and respect. That said, not an easy thing to do. I had to learn to back off when my father was non compliant about his meds and vegan diet my mom and I implemented to try to prolong his life. He said, “just let me eat what I want, I don’t have long to live.” So we did. At least I can protect his dignity and sense of self agency.
36
Whoa! Why is the nursing home calling this woman?
Is father under court ordered guardianship? If not, none of her business. As to dry heaves - author’s pearl clutching attitude towards humans older than her (a demographic she will soon enough be part of) makes me queezy.
I work with the elderly every single day and guess what - they are fully human.
Also how could she broadcast - with scorn - her father’s sex life in the New York Times?
68
@Denis Most nursing home residents are not under court ordered guardianship. However, they have either designated someone as power of attorney or signed a waiver regarding confidentiality. That is, residents have identified someone with whom the staff can speak about confidential matters. This person also becomes that resident's advocate. It is routine standard of care. Nursing home residents are considered a vulnerable population, and the role of the person who can speak for the resident is very important.
13
@Kathleen
A power of attorney may be about finances only, or some other matter only, and the person who designates a power of attorney must be competent to do so. Having a power of attorney for finances, for example, does not convey a right to be consulted or make decisions about a person's sex life.
2
@Denis The only thing I can think of is that the nursing home wanted to be sure the condoms (for prophylactic, not contraceptive purpose) would be paid for.
The author’s “tell” is wrapped up in this one sentence: I knew that his behavior would have brought my mother a combination of anger, humiliation and crippling shame.” Your mother?
43
As an older person, I react to the very idea that a) this man has to ask; b) the nursing home has a say; c) the nursing home felt they had to call his daughter; d) that she gets to have her opinion blathered on this medium; and e) she has a say.
Privacy? Confidentiality?
If the nursing home decides that either he or his partner is taking advantage of the other or is predatory or at risk of assault, or if one of them has a sexually-related disease, then it is up to the nursing home to ensure safety.
44
@ohdearwhatnow
If the amorous parties in question couldn't do their own shopping, I am surprised the author's father simply didn't hand an aide $20: $10 for the condoms and $10 for the errand fee.
It doesn't say in the article, but I suspect the social worker noticed this behavior and wants the condoms available "just in case". Even if the couple has them available, doesn't mean they will use them.
Better discuss STD testing among the residents instead.
3
Excuse me, but If a man in his 80’s wants to have sex with a woman he has known for a few weeks what is the big deal? I get it that his daughter is somewhat aghast at this notion, but I think it’s great.
50
I don’t understand why an old man needs permission from his daughter to have sex.
Who would want that?
44
OMG!
80 something adult is being treated like a 13 year old.
80 something adult has no rights?
80 something adult should be left alone by the large numbers of do gooder, ignoramuses who would never have concerned themselves with him if he were 60.
Good for him!
Good grief.
Move on.
59
If the nursing home staff is asking her, chances are they are aware of what that relationship is like and that the lady is consenting. Many people with different kinds of mental disabilities, mentally ill, low IQ, have sex in consensual manner.
I think it is fair to talk to him and make sure he is comfortable and that he has asked if the lady is ok with that.
Otherwise, let him enjoy.
12
I found the writer's dripping condescension towards and disrespect for her father quite obnoxious. If she doesn't like her father, if she's angry at her father's behavior towards her mother, she should write about that. Anger written about directly is far more interesting than passive aggressive belittling cloaked as humor.
62
@John Mullen
wow anger, really?
All she said was that she was concerned for his health.
And yes venereal diseases can run rampant in such places.
https://health.usnews.com/health-care/patient-advice/articles/2018-12-10/what-to-know-about-rising-std-rates-among-seniors
7
@EFM She revealed his personal history, and her mother's, and used the words humiliation and shame, etc etc...she's not concerned about his health, she's concerned about punishing him for the wrongs in his past sex life....if she weren't, why write about them? How are they relevant to a discussion of whether she gets to approve of his current sex life?
8
Wow, rounding third base in a few weeks! I bet a lot of younger guys would like to get dating advice from the old randy goat.
7
@Bello When you're in your 80's, you don't have a lot of time for courtship.
This is an awful, awful article. It is demeaning to the elderly....it invades the privacy of a vulnerable family member and it diminishes the importance of personal connections in those who suffer loss. When this same situation happened to my now deceased mother, I was overjoyed that she was establishing relationships, laughing, loving and most of all was happy. Dry heaves? Really? The author should turn over the responsibility for her father’s care to another relative before she chokes on her lack of understanding of what is means to be intimate.
83
What am I missing? Isn't this man an adult?
19
If he has a heart attack in the act, at least he'll go out with a smile on his face.
15
Why do you have to wait until he finds his next girlfriend? Why can’t you give permission in advance? He doesn’t have much longer to live, give him a break for God’s sake.
24
@Steven Harrod
Exactly. Seems she feels his behavior is subject to her involvement on some level, now and in the future. She's had the opportunity to have this conversation which she believes fell under her perogative. OK. She's had the chance to inform staff to give appropriate support (condoms, privacy, health info) should he begin a relationship. Now the situation should no longer be her concern (if it ever was) unless he shares that with her.
Zapalac shouldn't still feel she needs to be party to her father's relationships now that practical concerns have been addressed, but the joke in the final line suggests she feels she should in fact remain a party to his intimate relations and have knowledge and control in the matter.
4
The intense, exclusive, romantic relationships could impact Dad’s well-being more than the fact he is having sex with his partners. If this was his life-long pattern, I might also worry he could be “using” his girlfriends in a way that is unhealthy to them.
5
Pffft. Let the guy have his condoms and ER meds. Let him and his partners get the most enjoyment possible out of the life they have left.
The author may "be a parent" to her dad in some aspects of his life. This is not one of them.
8
This woman is a WRITER? Perhaps she needs to go over the tone, prurient and dismissive, of her style. As an 80-year-old, I'm also a little appalled that she even got the phone call. Do we leave our adult status when we enter care? What on earth was the nurse thinking? Who wrote the rules of conduct here? What business is it of a daughter's that her father is having a sexual relationship? Getting to third base, as she so crudely puts it. With a daughter this immature I sure wouldn't want her as my guardian.
61
@John Holland Unfortunately, this patronising attitude to those of us in the power of others is endemic, even amongst the nicest people. This Christmas I saw Shakespeare’s Seven Ages of Man becoming true for an old friend. I’m 82. She’s 85 with a degree of senility that is exacerbated by her doctor’s prescription of morphine which would be better replaced by Panadol. None of her children understood what she was trying to tell them. It was particularly hard for her because she was trying to ask why she had failed with her youngest son when she had obviously done a good job with the rest of them. The bluff comments that he “took an overdose, you know that Mum” must have been extremely hurtful. She spent a lot of the afternoon crying but “ it’s all right Judy. She does that a lot.” My ambition is to walk into the sea on my 90th birthday, which, according to family precedent, will be about the time I’m done for, but probably by then, I’ll be too weak to manage it.
9
@Judy from New Zealand
Oh Judy, this is so sad.....
I too suffer from the beginning of aphasia (not so much when writing) and I can fully empathize with your mother's attempt to communicate and your own pain....
Take care
Kati
1
Good for him!
9
@John And good for his consenting partner!
6
I hope my children leave me alone and don’t pry into my love affairs which I expect to continue to have into my 80s. Sorry if that makes you sick.
35
How dare Ms Zapalac treat her father like an immature teenager?
17
@Michael You shouldn't treat anyone of any age the way Ms Zapalac has.
If I were the papa I'd be muttering "Will no one rid me of this meddlesome child?"
38
Consenting adults want to engage in a fun activity together. How on earth would this make this women dry heave? I am completely befuddled by what appears to be this women's bizarre fear of sex. Let them enjoy themselves in the time they have left. Lady you have hangups.
31
Geez, if you’re having problems talking this over with your dad, ask the staff to do it. In the meantime find a medical school that’s willing to study your dad’s vigor.
8
The author’s father engaged in “extracurricular activities” with other women while he was married. There has to be some understandable anger still there.
8
@Olivia
Clearly there is anger, which makes her the worst person to be deciding whether he can have sex now. Perhaps she should consider therapy for her issues, rather than being given the opportunity to exact revenge on behalf of her mother.
7
I see the moderators are trying to change this back to a cute story about a feckless old man and giggling/revolted daughter.
Aged is the one reference group all of us will enter unless we decease first.
7
I find this article to be very offensive. If the author's father has been judged mentally incompetent presumably the author is his legal guardian. But it's not clear whether that's the case. If he has been judged mentally incompetent, he might not be able to consent to sex. None of these issues are discussed. Instead, the author goes on about how disgusting it is that an elderly person wants to have sex. This is incredibly ageist and I am shocked this was published.
40
Contraceptives. serve to prevent pregnancy NOT prevent STD's which is what sexually active seniors need. Sad that the title is so misleading.
5
@Beth Grant-DeRoos Condoms are considered to be contraceptives - a barrier method - and, if used correctly, do offer protection against STDs.
2
I don't understand why she said no to condoms when the nurse asked for permission. He is an adult having a relationship with another adult and whatever they do it's none of her business. Moreover, if he has any doubts I am sure that nurse can help him. Her father is not her teenager son who needs The talk. Basically, she is having a power trip. Ridiculous and demeaning.
41
"However, it is still cringeworthy to hear your father wants to be sexually active and that I need to have a conversation with him about safe sex."
"I knew that his behavior would have brought my mother a combination of anger, humiliation and crippling shame."
Like mother, like daughter.
The writer needs to examine her own attitudes to sex -- perhaps she can move beyond "It's icky".
34
80 the new 40.
Medicare coverage expiring...the new contraception.
3
God Bless him, if he can perform, she is NOT going to get pregnant.
4
I assume we are talking about condoms. Why do they need permission at 80 to get condoms? Why do you even need to know? Seems they could have avoided your dry heave, since this is between two consenting adults?
12
I'm shocked by the fact that the nursing home even make this call! Why aren't condoms automatically available to residents without their family having to know? He's an adult! He has the right to have sex. And his "cognitive difficulties" doesn't exclude him from expressing his sexuality as long as his sexual encounters are consensual and in a private place. It's no-one else's business!
15
I feel for the author. Her dad sounds like a creepy old man hitting on every woman he sees.
The writer hints that had been his behavior even when he was a younger man, overly needy for women's attention and affection, including cheating on his wife.
If anything, the women in the facility might need protection from him hitting on them, not that he needs protection for safe sex.
12
why does the daughter get to make the decision? Does she have elderly conservatorship over her father? If not, this is really creepy.
9
The thing is, one day she shall be 80 as well. Will she dry heave then?
13
Why would the nursing home folks even ask Ms. Zapalch about providing contraceptives? It's none of her business.
6
The writer should be thrilled for his father. And hope that he is equally virile if he is lucky enough to reach four score. A problem that many men over eighty would love to deal with.
1
I am struggling to understand why the facility called you, and why you think you have the authority to assent to his receiving contraceptives, or to deny them. His romantic and sexual life is his business, not yours.
I think I understand your desire to protect him from a potentially predatory woman and, alternativelyfrom forcing himself on someone, but the decision to be sexually active should be his and his potential partner’s. I am thinking that his infidelities to your mother are clouding your thinking. Then and now he is responsible for his own decisions, whether it makes you uncomfortable or not.,
17
What's the big deal? Let the old goat roam. If he fooled around on his deceased wife during their entire marriage, that's history. What's the life expectancy of anybody he's going to meet in the facility? Would any of his behavior "ruin anybody's life"? As for STDs, so what? Any woman who's lived to the age that puts her in one of these facilities doesn't have a life-threatening disease. Let him get what relish he can out of the rest of his life, and maybe he can give some cheer to a woman in a situation similar to his. I'd say that it's none of your business.
3
Sorry, but daughter is overstepping her bounds by a country mile, and is clearly indicating a distaste for matters carnal.So long as dad is mentally competent, why are daughter and social worker allowed to control basic life decisions of dad? Infantilizing the elderly, in the absence of imminent danger, is dehumanizing, and incredibly destructive. Ask the daughter or the social worker how they would like it if someone tried to “protect” them from stds by screening their chosen partners.
“
5
This makes me sad and angry. "Cringeworthy"? Even allowing for some awkwardness when it comes to acknowledging that parents are sexual beings, this author's horror is just childish. I would hate to think that my own children would be so unequipped to deal with this. And also, why is this facility asking permission for the provision of contraception at all? What are the cognitive limitations, and do they require that a guardian supervise matters like this? Seems like everyone here is inappropriate in dealing with the needs/desires/comforts of this man. And his past patterns of adultery outside his marriage have absolutely nothing to do with the situation at hand. This is about ensuring safe sexual encounters and nothing more. (Pregnancy? Come on!). And...THIS person gets to write a piece for the New York Times?
16
So let me get this straight .. your father suffers from 'cognitive' issues of such severity that in your estimation render him incapable of acting independently or rationally with respect to deeply personal matters of a sexual nature, but not to such an extent that he can't give you his informed consent to share those intimate matters with the five million people who read this newspaper.
What I'm sensing from this story - beyond the opportunism and condescension - is a resentment and vindictiveness toward a parent who failed to measure up to moral expectations either back in the day or in his twilight years.
How fortuitous his lady friend left the seniors home unexpectedly thereby relieving you the weighty, awkward chore of deciding whether or not to give their liaison your personal stamp of approval.
24
On further thought - and discussion with my wife - this article is cruel and demeaning.
24
How absurd that an adult would be treated like a child, needing guardian permission for condom access. This man should find a new living facility -- one more respectful of his rights.
12
Why is such a talk "cringe-worthy"? When is the expiration date for one's sexual desire and/or activity? Use it or lose it. Physical contact releases endorphins. Elderly people die of loneliness more than STIs. I think the writer needs to grow up.
21
This seems incredibly condescending. Why "dry heave" to think that your father might have sex? And it seems really important to think through what extent of cognitive limitations would justify the nursing home needing your permission to give him contraception. His cognitive limitations are only mentioned in a brief aside, but they seem to be the crux of the matter. As well as the cognitive functioning of his potential partner. In general, I find it offensive that there is an assumption that older adults having sex is disgusting/funny/weird/cute. Do you want your own children responding that way when you are 80?
19
If the author's father has 'cognitive limitations' such that her permission is required for him to be sexually active, how can he possibly 'consent' to these facts being broadcast to the world? This article seems to me to be an exploitative invasion of privacy and I hope that none of my children would do anything similar.
17
The essay is by "a Chicago based writer" who now has been published by the NYT. Was that her objective? at what price to her father?
I'm 79 and am reading this in my apartment in a wonderful continuing care community. I wonder how many in her father's facility are doing the same? How humiliating for him and his partners. What an invasion of privacy and dignity.
32
It was a bit painful reading this. You almost explicitly say you's prefer the call to be to notify you about your father's death.
Like many, I find it strange that you'd have a say in what your father is doing privately. But when he's planning on going all the way with his "lady friend" and asks for condoms, you stall because you're worried about sexually transmitted diseases? Sounds like you're worried about your dad having sex, not about he getting any STDs.
Your father is nearing the end of his life, he knows life is short, he lost his previous fiancé to a brain tumour after five months. His romance with this lady friend stopped because she could no longer afford to stay there. And you sigh of relief?
If you want to have the talk, have it already anyway! Don't wait for your father to be again in the middle of a romance for you to be weeks preparing for your talk for him to be able to have condoms. He's not have a lot of time.
Don't waste his time just because you'd prefer to keep the thought of your father having sex away.
13
Older people may fall in love or in lust... No surprise, they are alive!
Nursing homes for the elderly try to restrict it. No surprise either... Just one question: is it to prevent sexually transmissible diseases or lawsuits from families....
5
He’s 80 years old. Kindly step out of his intimate affairs and let him find whatever consenting enjoyment he may. And STD’s?Highly unlikely cause for concern; he’s far more likely to be made miserable by his daughter’s imposing.
17
Why were you even asked about your father's contraceptive use? If is is aware and alert enough to express pleasantries and describe his love for this lady etc, then he can make his own decisions about sexual activity and wether or not to use condoms etc.
8
How can any person possibly give permission for you to tell the private personal details of his sex life when he apparently doesn't have the mental faculty to even request over-the-counter contraceptives. This seems very condescending towards our seniors.
18
Why does an 80 year man need the permission of his daughter to have sex?
And at what age did this man lose his right to privacy? Why is it ok to publicize a private situation?
12
@Neighbor2 The author asserts that her father consented to the publication of this piece. If the nursing home called her about giving him condoms, she likely has power of attorney and/or some kind of medical guardianship. The author does mention her father’s cognitive challenges. It does feel like a contradiction that she trusts the capacity of his cognitive abilities in the context of consenting to the publication of this article but NOT his capacity to consent to having sex. Would be wonderful if the author decides to chime in to offer more context/detail.
6
Here is some news that some, including this author , might find shocking; the elderly have sex ! What is the most disturbing part of this article ? Is it the thought that at age 80 , I might have to ask permission from a prude to have sex ? Is it that an assisted living facility might some day treat me like a pre-teen ? Is it the notion that sex outside of having children makes non-participants want to "dry heave" ? If this article isn't ageist, I don't know what is
21
I do not understand why the facility needed the daughter's permission. Her father is an adult, after all.
5
I don't question a social worker calling Ms. Zapalac when her father was caught 'rounding third base' in the common area. But making the call about 'contraceptives' is silly, evasive, and calls into question the judgment and intelligence of the staff.
4
I was disappointed by this article. Was it supposed to be earnest? Sad? Profound? Funny? It was none of those for me. I cared for my mother until her death. She had sex. Not my business to judge or interfere, just help her to be safe. I don’t understand the author’s attitudes. They make me sad for her and her father.
13
Firstly, I wonder if the author asked her father whether she could publish this article. That he has cognitive impairment does not mean he shouldn't have a say. Secondly: Yes, thinking about one's parents or one's children having sex is awkward. Yes, caring for aging patents is hard. Yet we are sexual beings, at all ages, and he is an adult. So long as there is mutual consent and there's no exploitation (key point there), then let it be. -Sheri, a geriatrician
6
@Sheri The author explicitly states (at the end of the third to the last paragraph) that her father consented to her “writing about this.” It’s implicit he consented to that writing being published but that’s not an unimportant distinction. If he didn’t, a line of personal autonomy and privacy has been crossed.
4
Stop treating elderly people as if they were children. If he wants to engage in a sexual relationship it's his decision. Respect his privacy and dignity.
11
The fate of too many elderly men in institutions is to be involuntarily given shots of depo-provera, chemically castrating them, because it is simply easier for the staff and family.
3
@Frank Without their permission? That couldn’t be ethical or legal.
2
Need to catch up with my retired buddy from work,he lost his wife and folded for a few years,was supposed to get his hearing aids from the VA Feb 13.Iknow his daughter would love to get a call from him feeling as spry as this guy.This guy should give blood,know players who are in retirement 15 years younger than Romeo.
2
Am I missing something here? Why in God's name would anyone in a senior living facility need contraceptives? No one is going to get pregnant, right?
2
@Marie S There is an epidemic of STDs amongst this demographic of sexually active adults. The condoms are to minimize risk of STD transmission, not to prevent pregnancy.
5
None of us WANT to make those decisions for our parents. If you never end up there, just know - you’ve dodged a bullet.
1
I was shocked when I read that the writer denied protection to her father before meeting the woman. The result will be unprotected sex.
And by the way who cares. Let them be safe and enjoy life. We will all hopefully be old one day and still interested in sex.
6
Any adult who talks about sex in terms of "rounding third base" and "scoring home runs" obviously has serious problems with talking about sex openly. Wonder what in the world the author told her kids, aside from emphasizing the ravages of STDs.
16
How wonderful it is that your father is enjoying life to it’s fullest! How infuriating it is that you had to be consulted by the idiotic social worker about his contraceptive needs. She needs some remedial courses.
Guess what, kiddo. Many people want and enjoy sex to the very end of their lives. It should not make you gag for heavens’ sake. You should be happy for him. Imagine how lonely it is for many elderly people in assisted living and nursing homes. It’s great that the ladies gather ‘round. You should hope that you’re vital and sexy into your later years too.
I can understand teenagers not wanting to know too much about their parents’ sex lives. They’re still figuring out how romantic relationships work. They’re not comfortable with their own sexuality. When I was living at home, my parents had a lock on their bedroom door and that was their private, sacred space. I may not have known the details, but I knew they had a loving, sexual relationship. And, I knew to knock! In an emergency!
You’re not a teenager. This is a conversation between two adults. Yes, he should know to protect himself. There is an uptake in STDs in senior residences. He should understand that they need to go to a private room and close the door. Even if they’re not having intercourse, it’s lovely to cuddle with a willing partner and feel the warmth of another body. Rejoice in your father’s happiness. Human affection will probably add extra time to his life. Good for him!
12
You say, “I informed the social worker my father was not to be given protection or conjugal visit privileges until I had an opportunity to discuss this matter with him.”
Imagine a man saying “My sister is not to be given protection or conjugal visit privileges until I have an opportunity to discuss this matter with her.”
There is only one way the first sentence is okay but the second sentence is wrong: sexism.
No woman has a right to control the sex life of a man and another consenting adult, wouldn’t you agree?
11
@Professor Science
You forgot the corollary: No man has the right to control the sex life of a woman....
Dad is an adult. Even if he has limitations, he's not running out in front of a car. In the event he gets a sexually transmitted disease from some elderly lady then he can get treated. If he wants to have sexual relations, he should have condoms and freedom to enjoy his last years. The author should take Dad to a doctor and have him explain the options for safe sex if she really is this concerned. It seems like Dad is pretty experienced in this area already. Children seem really uncomfortable about their parent's sexual activities. That doesn't mean they have the right to limit their parent's sexual activities. I find it outrageous that the daughter said no.
12
The conversation with her father can be very simple.
Dad, if you're going to have sex with a female friend, you'll need to use a condom, just in case one of you has been exposed to a sexually transmitted disease. I'm going to leave some here for. you, just in case you need them."
I worked in an assisted living facility for the last 18 year of my nursing career. There were several times when my female patients asked me questioned about becoming sexually involved with male residents. It's more common that people realize.
15
My first question is... why has the facility contacted the author in the first place. Does she have a medical POA or has he consented to sharing his medical info with his child in the first place. If not the facility may well have overstepped its legal bounds re HIPAA and the issue should have been handled directly between the facility and the father/patient. I'm sniffing a lot here that's troubling me. Why is the social worker making this call, and not the medical staff? I'll grant that we don't have all the facts here...but absent presenting the full facts here, why did the author even feel compelled to involve the Times readership in this issue other perhaps than in seeking support for her own priggish smugness and feigned outrage at her clear disapproval of her dad's behavior and her own seeming unresolved issues over his sexual expression which clearly predate this immediate incident.
13
Given that adults with cognitive impairment live at this facility, I would be concerned about the female partners' ability to consent to sexual activity.
17
How sad for the author's father that his daughter thinks of him in such harsh, unempathic and compassionless terms.
Her frame of reference about sex seems not to have developed after she completed 10th grade. 3rd base?
I hope her own family has more compassion for her when she reaches 80.
14
Where to begin? First the writer's antiquated prudish language in reference to sensuality: "having the 'talk'." "repressing the urge to dry heave," "kissing and heavy petting," "rounding third base and wanting to hit a home run," "cringeworthy," "brutally awkward," to cite a few. Is she ten years old? Raised in a convent? I've known Catholic nuns with more sexual sense than that. She writes that she knows her dad's behavior would have brought her mother "crippling shame," yet she says they argued and her mother remained married for all her childhood and decades beyond until her death. Maybe her mother did feel shame, but she dealt with it in her own way. The writer seems unable to perceive of sensual love as little more than primitive - barely tolerated - brutal copulation. I have news. One -two - can share extensive, fulfilling amorous liaisons with no need for condoms or fear of STDs. I shudder to think how the writer would have reacted had she discovered her father was dating MEN! I fear for this woman, and her children. Dad can take care of himself. For the record, I'm male, 86 years old, the plumbing works and it needs to function like any other function of healthy bodies. We're not dead yet.
23
This essay is profoundly ageist.
The writer would have us believe that the problem is "what's wrong with my father that he wants to have sex?" The real problem is her reaction. He has-- apparently-- always been somewhat promiscuous. His prospective partners appear to be responsive, if hampered by length-of-stay problems.
In terms of nursing home sex, some folks have been tumbling in bed with each other in nursing homes for time immemorial. While nursing home staff have a duty to make sure that genuinely cognitively impaired residents are not victimized, this does not mean they can badger people about sex just because they are old. That is, in fact, the essence of ageism.
It is difficult to tell whether her reference to cognitive difficulties is objective or simply a pejorative jab. If the author thinks he can give consent for the article, it is hard to see him as incompetent. The few glimpses we get of him do not sound impaired. One suspects that the social worker's problem was dealing with the daughter-- not the residents.
17
Unless Dad has been determined by a Court to be incompetent and the son has been appointed his guardian, everyone should get out of Dad’s business.
6
I don't understand what is going on here. Why did the social worker call the author to ask for her permission for her father to have sexual relations? An 80 year old man is an adult, not a minor child. Unless a court has determined that he is no longer capable of making these kinds of decisions for himself it is his decision, not his daughter's.
5
As The Great Sage Berra once solemnly intoned, catcher’s mask askew, “It ain’t over til it’s over.”
And I’m a good example of that at 79+ as my girlfriend of 52 years, just 73 can attest.
Now where are those skis?
6
I’ll never forget the last time I saw my grandmother before her death from Alzheimer’s. I went to visit her in the nursing home, and she was there with her boyfriend of several months. She didn’t remember me, but we had a delightful conversation about her boyfriend. She coyly told me she was 16. They were clearly crazy about each other, snuggling and kissing. And the last moment I laid eyes on her, they were walking down the hall hand in hand, swinging their arms.
She may have been senile, but she was obviously consenting to the relationship and obviously it was making her happy. Why deny someone the pleasure of human companionship and human sexuality in the last months of their life?
Humans are, in general, innately sexual. We’re sexual as children, we are sexual as teens, we are sexual as adults, and we are sexual in our old age. Items 1, 2, and 4 on that list can cause people a whole lot of discomfort, but it doesn’t make it any less true.
I hope I’m still flirty like my grandma when I’m 95.
16
The best thing about this article, other than reminding us that senior citizens should not be chastised or dry-heaved over having sex at any age, is that we need a different word than "contraceptive," since pregnancy was almost certainly not the issue at hand here.
7
@Paul in NJ
Contraceptive actually just seems wrong here, no? Contraceptives = for the prevention of pregnancy, no?
2
This is one of the saddest pieces addressing the challenges of elder care that I've ever read. "Dry heave", "cringeworthy", sardonic, juvenile humor that doesn't just border on disrespectful, but dives right in?
Yes, there's irony in the role reversal grown children face with aging parents. Sure, there's much room for humor in that role reversal, but Zapalac's essay just reads as ugly circumscription of her father's humanity and a thinly veiled attack on a vulnerable person. Not funny at all, not sensitive, not caring, not cool.
More than a consideration of the issue of sexuality in the elderly, this piece only makes plain the issues this writer has with her father, his infidelities and the baggage she still carries forward.
If the writer can't address all the aspects of her father's care respectfully and with a good heart, maybe ask a sibling to step in where you have shortcoming, enlist staff to talk with your father about the important issues in sexual health and get yourself into counseling and a caregiver support group. Don't parade repulsion and prudishness as a humor piece.
I do look forward to the commentary from older readers and hope they take Zapalac to task for this sorry essay. Now that should be humorous.
17
There is too much left unexplained in this piece, such as whether the author had legal authority to direct her father's care or whether there was something about the father's relationship with his lady friend that raised concerns that one or the other partner might somehow be harmed (physically, emotionally, financially, etc.) if the relationship progressed to sex. But more than anything this piece just seems to reflect that the author was creeped out by the thought of her father being in a sexual relationship in his 80s (with an overlay of worry about how her deceased mother would feel about the whole thing). I think the author needs to get over it.
10
Kudos to the facility for being observant and calling the author. But I am more concerned about the daughter than the father here.
She feels the urge to “dry heave” at the mention of her father having sex. “Rounding third base”, “scoring a home run”, “cringeworthy” that Dad wants to have sex seem somewhat “teenage” ageist expressions and reactions to very natural and common phenomena. Perhaps a visit with a therapist to discuss her own attitudes about sex would help her be less judgmental of him and more comfortable and equitable in her decision to allow or withhold contraception.
.
5
I am surprised that the facility is not prepared to discuss this issue with patients.
1
I'm not sure why you use the word contraceptives in the title rather than some word that can talk about the range of methods to protect against STDs. If you mean "condoms" they dont work agains all agents btw or are often used incorrectly even by people with experience. Mutual testing is another toolkit item, if it comes to that.
Yes, the issue of adult children being asked to "discuss" with elderly parents potential consequences of sexual activity and what protection to use seems both humorous and appropriate karma for those of us who experienced sex with the expectations and values of the 1960's.
As it turns out human reproductive organs don't just disappear as one ages. I remember the unlucky congressman whose father kept getting arrested for soliciting prostitutes as he aged. Fortunately he was a Republican congressman so his constituents were angry at the newspapers who publicized the incidents of the father wandering into dangerous areas.
On a more serious note, there are actual issues with reproductive organs and one's aging parents that get very little attention. Once parents live in "assisted living" their access to health care can be interrupted; this is not true of skilled nursing care usually.
As a "boomer" most of the men of my generation seem to have been circumcised shortly after birth. I was well over 65 before I became aware my father and most of his generation seem not to have been circumcised. This led to a serious health problem for my father which the man from Ethiopia who gave my father daily showers (for which we paid extra) was kind enough to explain to me. The young women who had been giving my father showers were not trained to spot this issue. Once the condition was explained, medical treatment was done. Just one of the health issues to face with aging parents.
3
Ms. Zapalac - Pushing 80 myself, I suspect your father can't bear it that he is in a nursing home that requires him to ask your permission for a contraceptive. He is an 80 year old with his own life..
Having just been in a "skilled nursing facility", a short term horror show to put it mildly - due to a leg fracture - I hope to do everything possible to avoid a nursing home. There are many creative alternatives in many states. I suggest you work for one in yours.
Put yourself in his shoes as you'll be in similar shoes yourself one day - if you make it to 80.
6
It's unclear from the article if the author's father is suffering from any cognitive deficits. If he isn't, it's degrading and a shocking invasion of privacy for the facility to share this info with his daughter, much less ask for her to give permission for him to get condoms. He's an adult man and entitled to some dignity & respect. If the nursing home is concerned about his capacity to engage safely in an intimate relationship or have concerns about his prospective partner, they should address those concerns directly with her father. I would think a trained social worker or medical professional would be able to take this on. And I don't see why the author felt it was relevant to share the details of her parents' marital difficulties. Another invasion of privacy. The author is clearly embarrassed at the thought of having this conversation with her father, and understandably so. Can she imagine how humiliating it must be to be the subject of that conversation, much less to have these details aired in a newspaper? Advanced age does not strip one of the need for intimacy, or the right to have those needs taken seriously. To cope with her own embarrassment the author made the intimate details of her father's life a sit-com punch line. Shame on her.
11
Many comments have indicated that it is reasonable to consider and openly discuss issues related to consensual sex and and the need for prophylaxis in older adults when there are concerns about cognition and impulsivity. That would have been a useful article for the NYT to publish. Instead we got a condescending, spiteful adolescent-level snit written by a daughter that in my opinion has some unresolved anger issues with her father. References to her own "urge to dry heave", a "clearly mortified" social worker (not likely), and "my dad was a needy man" mostly point to a need to humiliate, not to provide advice for an awkward but necessary discussion. Finally, he may have "consented to my writing about this" but I doubt he would have consented to having his privacy exploited in this way. In my opinion, it is the daughter who has engaged in shameful behavior.
16
It's difficult and heartbreaking to deal with failing elderly parents. But the author, possibly due partly to caretaker burnout, has some antiquated views on sexuality.
Granted, the father discussed apparently has some cognitive deficits.
Bit older people are often viewed as redundant and ridiculous for having normal human needs or desires.
6
All I can say is, good for him. And to the writer, lighten up. Your dad, whatever his other faults might be, is a vital human in a place that usually strips you of vitality.
4
Older adults, including those in facities--even more importantly, those in such facilities--have sexual feelings.
I got the feeling this daughter, who clearly loves her father, is infantalizing her dad, or at worst, "medicalizing" his condition.
I've heard that we just become more like ouselves the older we get. Assuming the truth of this, then the daugher shouldn't have been so surprised, or even embarrassed, by his leanings.
I hope she comes to accept this fact about her father, and doesn't come across as judgmental--he'll sense it. God knows he's likely not too happy there, and maybe some reciprocated attention is just what the doctor ordered.
4
@ChristineMcM I think most readers would dispute your assumption that the author 'clearly loves her father'!
1
Why is it that when our parents reach a certain age, we tend to treat them like children? Your father is still interested in life. Rejoice. More power to him (yes, i am aware of the pun).
6
It was 1978 and I was a bookkeeper at a nursing home, to help finance my college education. The nursing home had a special room with an "occupied" card on the door, reserved for trists for romantic partners, which happens more frequently that one would expect who has not yet reached elder years. Of course this was before the full advent of aids and growth of STD's among all sexually active partners. Just the same, respect was shown, privacy was given, along with nurses who were available for consulting if one of the couple wished to discuss their concerns. Even with this open acknowledgment of romance and pleasure as a human right there were also raised eyebrows, gossip, and envy, but I have to say, this was a warm and kind and lively experiment that seemed to make for more happiness than had coupling been denied. Just to say, I think this written piece was meant as a comical reminder of the first time a daughter is being asked to think of her dad as (gasp) a sexual man and in late years at that. In any case, it was a sweet Valentine to include this story for your readers to enjoy. Thanks.
5
Elderly people can be sexual beings and deserve equal rights and opportunities to have control over, choices about, and access to their sexuality, sexual expression, and fulfilling relationships throughout their lives. They do not need the consent of anyone else, certainly not their child to validate or approve of this essential human right.
I found this article and the perspective it espoused lacking in honoring this man's basic human right to have agency over a healthy and private aspect of his relationships.
9
I really don't understand the infantalazing of the elderly in this country. Yes, there are circumstances where adult children need to help with decisions. But, the father here is a grown adult and while he should have a recap on sexually transmitted diseases, why would he need permission to use contraceptives or to have sex? I felt it was none of my parents" business if I had sex in college and I don't think it's my business if they do now.
7
Yes, people in skilled nursing facilities get sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV. This puts an added burden on the care of someone who is already medically complicated. And yes it is appropriate for the facility to discuss the sexual health of a person under their care with the family member that has Power of Attorney for Health Care for that individual. And yes people over eighty have healthy libidos. God bless them.
7
What is the issue? Let them be. There is no downside.
5
Is Father clinically and legally incompetent?
If not, why did Nursing call Child? Why did Child get involved? Violation of patient autonomy.
Even if Father is not fully capable of consenting to medical treatment and Child thus has a role in his care, Father may still be capable of initiating and engaging in legitimately consensual sex.
Was Nursing concerned about sexually transmitted disease? If so, why not just provide Father with condoms? (It seems as though these are available to be provided.) What harm would be done by that? Why involve Child?
With all due respect to Child, why get involved in this last area of parental autonomy and adult activity? And then, even if Father (who apparently has “some cognitive issues”) seems to consent to it, why disclose the whole story for national and international prurient consumption? How does this benefit Father? How is this consistent with Child’s fiduciary role, and how is is not self-benefiting and even exploitive?
With all due respect to Nursing, this sounds like a situation of misplaced puritanism and even disapproval of this perfectly normal, desirable sexual activity.
The correct Nursing approach is to uphold patient autonomy and self-determination to the greatest extent possible under each circumstance. Then, if it is judged essential to intervene, to do so with lowest possible curtailment of patient autonomy and confidentiality.
This story is not uplifting in my view. I suggest it is a Nursing and Child fail.
7
Teaching internet dating to other seniors and a serial internet dater myself doesn't qualify me as an expert but what I've learned is romance, sex, and intimacy is not limited by age. Why the need to infantilize us? Laugh, or think we're cute? Why are people shocked that we remain virile, seductive, and interested? One man I know, in his eighties swims naked in the ocean--he posted a discreet photo of his swim on his Match site. A 92 year old man and I are in active communication--He's willing to drive 60+ miles into the city to meet me. An 85 year old woman recently took my class. She complained that after being on line six months she had only meet two men--she goes out with them regularly but there aren't any sparks--Seniors in my classes are savvy, sexy and eager. Granted, in assisted living facilities , hyper-sexuality and acting out can be a sign of increasing dementia--I spent 3 months in a nursing facility with a debilitating illness ten years ago--a disoriented resident leaped into my bed and it took two orderlies to dislodge him- However, unless the nurse was trying a subtle way to alert Ms. Zapalac that her father had a problem--that conversation was singularly inappropriate and a warning of how the staff perceives residents. More appropriate would be more information to residents on STD's and free condoms. My most important take-away from class, When it comes to sex we're all adults, no matter where we live, aren't we entitled to the same considerations?
5
It is a funny article. A bit cringey but funny.
As other commenters have suggested, if your dad has cognitive issues, he can't credibly consent to you discussing his sex life in a national publication.
On the other hand, if he is cognitively intact, it isn't clear what business you have deciding whether he has access to contraception.
In either case, the purpose of the contraception ( I am assuming) is disease prevention and the SNF should have provided him with the necessary protection immediately--just as they would have provided a mask or gloves if dad's companion had the flu.
Your permission not required.
3
It is been told of Pablo Casals at 80, informing his doctor of his intention to marry 21 year old Marta (AKA Martita), his gifted student.
His doctor allegedly cautioned him of health consequences of such a union, to which Casals allegedly responded : " if she dies, she dies ".
7
My widowed FIL was a busy man late in life. It wasn't because he suddenly found women more attractive, it was because he was lonely and cognitive decline made him less reserved. His lady friends enjoyed the flirting and as for whatever else went on, none of us thought it was any of our business.
5
The tone of this is so strange. The thought that she, a grown woman, has about her father, a more than grown man, having sex is to “dry heave”? I’m assuming she’s not sixteen years old? This was patronizing under the guise of humor. It made me very sad.
13
My mother was in her 90's when dementia forced her to move to an assisted living facility for the last year of her life.
While living there, she met a man of about her age, and they became a couple. NO idea, nor do I need to know, exactly what the relationship became or consisted of. I know they shared a lot of time in his private room.
NOT up to me or anyone else to "police" the relationship between adults, (even though both had memory issues).
13
I can only assume that the facility also contacted the woman's family to get their permission as well for contraception. Had the author's parent had been female this piece would have been written from that perspective and possibly quite different. I'd be curious to see the difference in the reader's comments if that were the case.
5
@Rob D
I would have the exact same comment: it's none the daughter's business.
2
Three men who are running to lead our country will be 80 something in their first term. Congress is led by two in their late 70’s . It appears chronological age has little relationship to cognitive abilities, or is 80 the new 50?
5
@phebe s
"It appears chronological age has little relationship to cognitive abilities, ..."
Why would cognitive abilities be exempt from the physiological decline that affects all other human systems?
5
My mother was a dietician in a nursing home for years. This isn't even a problem. By the time a patient gets into a home, they have had all the necessary bloodwork to determine if they have an STD. I remember my mom chuckling when they would open the door of a room and find a man and a woman in bed together. They would simply say, you need to go back to your room, and that was that. She told me many stories of elderly patients, some shark as a tack, and some not, holding hands in a love seat, or eating next to each other in the cafeteria. She said some of the older patients were quite vexed with the staff for even mentioning their behavior. The would inform family that a friendship with a person of the opposite sex was ongoing. The sad part is, mom always had weekends off, and when she would return to work, a room that was occupied, would be empty, and all the personal belongings of the occupant would have been removed. Mom genuinely missed those who passed away without her saying goodbye to them. This is a strange article. I met some of the "couples" as a team, and they provided warmth and evoked the same feelings as younger people. My mother said, even those with dementia, still retained their personalities, often until their demise. I can tell you the staff knew what was going on, but were so caring, it didn't matter to them. Some patients even went out on "dates" on the bus to certain events. Humans at any age need to feel they are still alive.
32
My dad was in a 'good' assisted living and then nursing home facility for years with Parkinson's.
Sexual abuse is very real in these places. It has nothing to do with anyone being uncomfortable with the sexuality of seniors.
Cognitive and physical decline, psychotropic medications and close quarters exposure and opportunity very much complicate and undermine consent.
The staff was right to watch and call. Many do not until behavior becomes a liability for them.
23
@CNNNNC :
and others have consensual relationships that are no one else's business.
3
I find the writer's comments curiously old-fashioned, almost quaint. She (I may wrongly be assuming Stacey is a woman) keeps on expressing great queasiness about discussing sex, but this mostly seems to have to do with her embarrassment over the subject, neither her Dad's, nor the facilities. From the stories I've been hearing over the past dozens years or so from friends with aged parents, sex between older residents in nursing homes is quite common. Doesn't take hearing about it but a few times to realize older people enjoy sex, too. After a minor initial shock, most of us, not so young ourselves, are happy to learn sex can continue to be an enjoyable part of our lives. I didn't see an issue in the writer's story except her own discomfort with the subject. Why all the hand-wringing?
79
Why should the nurse interfere with the actions taken by an adult when that action does not harm any person?
52
@Maita Moto
Agreed. Given her father is an adult, the article could have focussed on why the nurse questioned her father's request and felt it necessary to reach out to his daughter.
35
elderly with cognitive issues are a vulnerable population and almost always have a POA. The staff did , rightly, what they were obligated to.
26
@Maita Moto Because with elderly cognitive decline and the associated medications for diseases like Parkinson's, behavior can be impulsive and predatory. Its good the staff is being attentive
25
Unless the writer has specific legal authority over her father's choices, the facility had no business asking her to grant or deny permission. He is an adult...and has the right to make his own choices, even if they are bad ones.
The facility is acting inappropriately and possibly illegally in violating his rights....this is the kind of paternalistic attitude so often visited on people with disabilities of all ages, and on old people.
The only correct response to the nursing home is: "It's none of my business."
111
@djd1950
The writer says her father has cognitive limitations. That plus him living in a facility that calls his daughter for permission indicates she does have legal authority over him. Strange so many people are overlooking that.
108
@did 1950, What about the womans family? Should they not be informed? The author makes no mention of her cognitive condition. Is she being taken advantage of, or coerced? The facility clearly has liability concerns.
11
@JJ :
my mother had dementia and lived in an assisted care facility the last year of her life. I had her DNR and other such paperwork but NEVER had a "legal authority" over her.
1
My father lived alone in my childhood home for thirteen years after my mother died. I always assumed he was intimate with the women he dated. We had to move him to a senior living facility after open heart surgery at 79. Five months later, another cardiac crisis ended his life. As my sister and I cleaned out our old house, we discovered condoms in Daddy's night table drawer. We didn't dry heave. We smiled, high-fived each other and said, "all right, Daddy!" It was a much better memory than his last days in the ICU.
279
Reading the comments, I’ve seen a lot of people remarking on the fact that a pregnancy resulting from this father’s activity is basically an impossibility, and as such there is no need to worry. The truth of the matter has nothing to do with pregnancy- it has to do with the risk of sexually transmitted diseases and infections. I think many would be agog at the frequency of this problem among the geriatric community- give it a Google, and prepare to be shocked by the statistics.
71
@Danielle Absolutely, the very real problem here is STDs, which is why the use of the word “contraceptives” in the headline and body of the article was misleading and unhelpful.
4
I'm reminded of a (Canadian) film in which Julie Christie played a woman who, at a relatively young age, developed dementia. Her husband, who loved her, regretfully consigned her to a nursing facility, when he could no longer care for her. Much to his dismay, she developed a (sexual) relationship with a male patient of about her age, who also had dementia. They seemed very happy together. The husband meets the wife of the male patient, whose attitue was different from his own. She was happy that her husband, in his reduced state, had found something joyous. Eventually, the husband of the Julie Christie character begins to see it that way.
65
@Jenifer Wolf
The 2006 film was "away from her" with Julie Christie and Gordon Pinsent. A good film dealing with an emerging issue.
@Jenifer Wolf I enjoyed that movie, too. It was "Away From Her" directed by Sarah Polley.
2
This is also the case with former Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor’s husband, who fell in love with another woman while in a nursing home.
3
My father-in-law, in his early 80s & after his wife of more than 60 years died, moved into an assisted living facility. There he met another resident, a woman of about his age but very different than my late mother-in-law. He asked his urologist for ED pills, but the doc said no, because of my father-in-law's other medical issues. So with a buddy's help, he ordered some sort of vacuum assist device. Don't know if he ever used it, didn't feel we should ask, but we do know the relationship gave him a few last happy years at the end of his life.
The author needs to get over herself and let her father be happy.
152
there's always a reason people put stuff down in writing. the author wrote about her father's past behavior for a reason. to me it was clear that the guy was unfaithful and bought a good share of misery to her mother and family. now the author is being asked to enable the same behavior that had been a thorn in her mother's life - a guy jumping from woman to woman. to me the article is not about geriatric venereal diseases or geriatric sex; it is about that twist of fate. if the guy is in his 80s then the author is at least in her 40s, meaning that her cringing has more to do with her relationship with her father than an adult s response to one of the most basic physiologic thing in humans.
7
I quite agree. The author needs to get over her repressed sexual attitudes and let her father have what remaining happiness he can muster. Contraceptives are necessary to guard against STDs. Let him enjoy himself. What is the author afraid of? He might have fun? He could start a family? How much time does he have left. You want him to “save” himself for a more “serious “ relationship?
4
I really love this piece: the honesty, the history, the conflict between freedom and confinement, the caregivers, the desires (however conflicted), and all in such a short space. The moment? Now. The memories? Forever (we hope). So beautifully written. Here's my advice (full disclosure, I know a lot about memory). The call begins with your dad, and however he gave into life's constraints, one that you mention is that relationships were exploratory. And as he travels through the rest of his years, it will always be so. If the other party (a woman) and he connect for a moment, for months, or for years, he lives beyond the confines. Seems like relationships in the past also disinterested him with boundaries others, like your mom, expected and deserved. Now that's where he is, unable to do very much without help, your role in his life becomes friend, adult child, or jailer.... if you know he is hurting no one, then you're enabling nothing other than the expression of self, however flawed. In that support, there is grace. And if someone thinks he is beautiful, then there is beauty, too.
55
I loved this and it gave me a little chuckle. Life is meant to be lived, so go for it, safely.
76
An available male resident in a 'skilled nursing facility.'
Now that's a hot commodity.
203
@Astrid Yes, it is. I found that out before my dad died.
My dad didn't show -- or have -- any interest, though. Although my mom died a couple of years before he did, his attachment to her was final.
23
@Astrid My mother was living in an independent living facility, one of a zillion women and very, very few men. She had always loved being married, and it did not surprise me when the one widower there felt the same about her as she did about him. When he died, after a several-years long relationship (about which I have zero details), she mourned him as deeply as she did my father, who had died almost 50 years before, when she was only 34. Love is love, and I'm glad she had it to enjoy almost to the end. She had cognitive impairments for sure, but they did not prevent her from loving a partner, not one bit.
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@Astrid : I've clocked a lot of time in nursing homes, Assisted Living, dementia units in the last 8 years -- due to several elderly relatives.
The proportion of men to women is like 15 to 1.
There are men, but far fewer of them. And most of them still have living wives, as the wives are often younger (and women live longer).
The pickings are about as slim as can be imagined.
If you are a woman and live past 85….and your spouse passes away….you have very little chance of finding ANY male companionship. The numbers just aren't there.
I'll bet my last nickel the ladies involved here with Mr. Zapalac are thrilled to get his attentions! and are the envy of all the other ladies in the nursing home!
I'd have preferred to read an article written about THEM!
11
The people who don't feel awkward about any of this, and who always had very open communication with their parents about human life, might suddenly feel like they better keep it to themselves.
15
I don't understand what the big deal is.Dad's lady friend is not going to get pregnant, and if either of them is wearing diapers, the romance probably isn't going anywhere.
The real issue is about the opinion of the lady friend. I'd be wondering about the lady friend's mental condition more than the dad's. One mental break on her part, and the dad can end up in court for assault.
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@Glenda This may be about protection from some other transmittable problems, not pregnancy.
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@Glenda
Sexually transmitted infections are an issue in older populations.
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@Glenda Seniors are one of the groups with a relatively high incidence of STDs, including HIV and herpes.
I don't see why he should be kept from having sex. It is not as if he has time for a long courting.
2
I'm soon 87 and will be copying this essay to my daughter, with the advice to just say NO if this question is posed.
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@kozarrj :
I'll soon be 80 and will copy this to my son with instructions that if this situation arises to just say yes.
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@kozarrj why deny yourself even a temporary happiness though? Especially since the staff may not be able to prevent it, but can only end up preventing safe sex.
4
"...received a phone call from my father’s skilled nursing facility..." Bottom line, her father is in a place where he requires skilled nursing care as do the other people who are in that facility. This is not an over-55 or independent living situation where folks can and do make their own decisions. Socialization and genuine affection is one thing, but the last thing the nursing staff and elderly women (short or long term) need is some old man making sexual advances that may well not be welcomed.
I had a friend whose father was exhibiting similar behavior and while I, at the time, thought it was it was no big deal, she said the reality was no laughing matter and it had become an issue. I think the author handled with the best sense of humor she could.
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@Jenna they didn't ask her how to deal with an unruly patient. They asked if it was ok to give him condoms. This means they have already determined he isn't a threat to anyone or they would not be asking. If he was making unwanted advances they would have talked to her about that.
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@Jenna :
oh, her dad was "exhibiting similar behavior" or was he just a human being trying to continue to live as a free human being?
Why should it be seen as "humorous"?
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@Jenna Aggressive sexual behavior in a nursing care or dementia care is not a laughing matter.
6
Let the man enjoy the last few years of his life the way he wants. Stacey needs to realize that her father has the ability, desire and energy to perform this essential and vital part of active life. I say more power to the seniors of this country.
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@howard cohn Her problem isn't that her dad has a sexuality, her problem is that his cognitive decline makes her privy to it (as well as the staff and other residents of the facility, in a context where dementia may reduce inhibitions). Would you really want to deal with your dad causing a herpes epidemic - or worse- at the local nursing home?
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A delightful and charming article. Thank you. I just forwarded it to my daughter and indicated that this 87 year old guy awaits her commentary and advice. In these Trumpian times it's wonderful to be reminded of the wonderful and also to have some help forgetting the distresses. Thanks for the dose of laughter.
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I haven't had to address that issue because my father is 96 and not active that way, but I can empathize. I'm trying to care for him from two states away. He wants to stay in his own home without ready access to transportation or nutritious food, and is subject to a degree of risk (from falling) that makes the rest of us cringe. It's his decision, and I respect it, but I also don't have the authority or desire to force him to do something different. So I patch together a support network as best as I can and visit once a month for several days. I pay all of his bills, keep his car away from the house, and make sure he has enough two-buck Chuck. His friends look out for him, too, and I think I've finally driven off most of the phone and internet scammers. Those that remain get an earful from him. But his cognitive abilities continue to decline and I know it's just a matter of time. The last thing he would need right now is yet another health challenge of the type you fear, so I can see why you are concerned.
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@Greg W Thank you for your honest assessment of your family situation. You are not alone and I feel your pain. My in-laws are 90 and 83. He has some major health issues (can't walk and on oxygen tanks) and her dementia is spiraling out of control. They insist on living on their own.
My husband and I are also trying our best to walk that fine line (feels like a tightrope) between giving them the autonomy they desire and sleepless nights worrying about their safety. (There have been falls). Watching him get into his chair that takes him down the stairs is cringe-worthy indeed. I have to look away.
We put most of their bills on auto-pay and monitor their accounts. We also have hired a home health aide that comes in and cooks and cleans twice a week. (A luxury that few can afford). Unlike you, we are only an hour or so away, so we visit 2x/week and take care of things (ripping up all of the mail scams that prey on the elderly).
What else can you do if they insist on being independent? It's very frustrating and, again, I empathize with you and wish you all of the best for you and your father.
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@Greg W I live in France and the government has an extensive program to provide free services for those who choose to live alone. They have care facilities, of course, when necessary. Those who are cared for at home are visited every day or so as needed. France has calculated that this service is less expensive that a care facility plus those who are assisted are happier in their own home.
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@Frankster
Sigh...another example of rational, caring and full coverage health care access in first world countries.
The US is a second world country when it comes to health care.
33
Being analytical, I would construct a decision tree. The first node would be the probability of whether his partner had an STD. The next would be the probability of whether he engaged in an activity that would result in him acquiring an STD ("first base", for example, wouldn't cause worry; you might have to construct several branches, some of which would at his age be impossible for him to perform). Finally, there are a number of diseases which might take years to have an impact, and the effects would be far from life threatening. The result might be an expected value that whose value would be much less negative than the discomfort you would both feel from having this discussion. So you won't have to bring up the subject at all!
29
@Stephen This decision tree needs to be made AFTER being educated on STD, its different impact on women vs. men, and the elderly. 1) You have left out that the father may have an STD and that he should be protecting his partners (and partners' future partners...) 2) "years to have an impact"? There are a number of disease in which the Impact is not years away. 3) This decision tree is of a selfish person. Where does the health of the partner and the community fit in ?
2
Just curious about the branches, activities, and the comment, “some of which, at his age, he wouldn’t be able to perform.” Is he swinging from these branches?
@DW if the father already has an STD, then he should be treated, not just use a condom. Another option here is for the nursing home to provide sti testing for residents. It's interesting to me that this wouldn't be done because if both partners do not have STIs, condoms aren't needed at this age. And the child can stay out of it.
If that was my father I would be so proud and hopeful for the same energy at that age. Leave him alone
363
@Jorge Romero many wives and daughters tend to have a desire to control their elderly husband or father. My sisters did the same to my dad. I, on the other hand, made arrangements for him to have massages and even brought home a lady who came over just to be hugging (or whatever) him for a couple of hours. Yes, I paid for that and I will always remember his sweet smile afterwards. The man was 80 years old and he was in a bed 24/7, but he was not dead yet. We all need human contact, and it's just a Puritan mentality that thinks it is wrong. I never told my sisters as they would never understand.
13
Let's not judge the author - every family is complicated. Knowing how hard it can be to talk about money with your parents, how many of us would truly be comfortable talking to a parent about their sexuality and the need to prevent transmission of disease while enjoying an important part of life. Look up the CDC statistics if you don't think that the nursing home's concern is a legitimate health issue. Health considerations are easy...wait until the two adults involved both have significant cognitive decline and/or living spouses.
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@mary
I don’t judge the author on her discomfort because, as you say, every family is different. I do judge her for her use of the phrase “dry heave” in this context, and most of all I have absolutely no idea why she would write and publish this. Apparently in addition to her discomfort with the topic she thinks hers is a normal reaction that, for some reason, people want to read about.
There’s absolutely zero substance here. Not a meaningful discussion of STD prevention in the elderly, or the topic of consent among people with cognitive impairments. Not even a amusing entertaining read. Only sad disgust for the private life of an elderly parent.
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@mary I agree that it would be uncomfortable the discuss sex with a parent. What I would do is tell the caller from the nursing facility that his sex life is up to him and his partner(s).
7
Where is the medical staff - doctor and nurses? The could routine and mandatory health education seminars for residents. Call up medical schools, nursing schools, public health schools - work on health education projects for different targeted age groups.
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@Yolanda Perez Most people would be surprised to know that most assisted living facilities don't have doctors, nurses, or even medical assistants. For liability protection, they rely on family consent and written orders from doctors to dispense medications and even very common over-the-counter creams. Of course, full nursing care units do have those professionals, at least once in a while.
Your idea that there should be speakers to address sexual health is an excellent one, but without a doctor's order, they probably won't offer sexual health advice or dispense condoms.
12
@Yolanda Perez
Her father doesn't need medical staff intervening in his personal business....this isn't a medical issue. He's an adult, he's not a minor child, and as far as we know, he has not been deprived of his right to make decisions by any court order.
5
Guess I'll have to die at home, alone if need be. Because under no circumstances will I be convinced that my children should be making calls like that.
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@Kate Baptista
Well, better hope your cognitive faculties remain intact.
6
Who was he going to get pregnant?
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@John Mardinly
the issue is not pregnancy, it's an STD. Older adults have been and are one of the fastest growing populations to transmit STD's. They can't get pregnant, so figure they don't need protection.
7
@John Mardinly
Pregnancy wasn't the issue. STDs was.
4
@John Mardinly :
No one is worried about pregnancy. It's the STDs and UTIs, the latter being potentially as lethal as the former at this age.
8
You say your father gave consent for you to write this article about him a few breaths after you stated that he had cognitive difficulties. Is it fair of you to expose his sex life to the scrutiny of the world?
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@Marguerte C. Strolle I wondered about that, too, until I remembered that in these days, in popular culture and mass media, letting one's hair down has been extended to one's family and friends in the name of "openess".
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@Marguerte C. Strolle
Omigod. Did New Yorkers loose all sense of humor? What about future generations? I'm glad I west of the Rockies. Even our coyotes laugh.
6
Of all the ridiculous things to worry about. You should be ecstatic that this is a positive indicator about his health status.
389
Why is it any of her business? Why is it "cringeworthy" that her father wants to have sex? Why does she find it "brutally awkward" to talk to her kids about sex?
Sex is a normal, pleasurable, sometimes even joyful part of life. I wonder why the author finds the thought of her kids and father taking part makes her so uncomfortable.
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@Glen Ridge Girl - I don't think the author has a problem with the idea of her kids (eventually) or her father (theoretically) having sex. It's the inter-generational talk that is so uncomfortable.
2
@Glen Ridge Girl
Exactly! None of her business AT ALL!
4
@Glen Ridge Girl That was my take. Ms. Zapalac seems to lack empathy and emotional maturity. I'm surprised so many readers found this amusing.
12
Here's a revelation on this fine Valentine's day: older people still think about and engage in sex. Whether it's with others, something most of us would ideally prefer, or as a singleton, it's a very necessary part of life.
The fact that the writer wanted to "dry heave" when she heard about her father's sexual escapades and desires, is part of the problem we older people face when wanting to engage in sex, or merely talk about it.
It's time we, as a culture, start talking about sex in a less puritanical way and understand that desire doesn't disappear simply because we all age. In fact, it's a stunningly helpful ingredient to a healthy and happy life.
The act of lovemaking, or simply having an orgasm is extraordinarily beneficial to all of us, no matter what age you are.
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@Pamela L. Very true. But she also found it excruciating to discuss sex with her kids. She clearly has some serious problems with sexuality in general.
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@Glen Ridge Girl The author says sex and other uncomfortable topics were never discussed in her parents’ home. This was true for many Boomers. It’s not surprising she would be uncomfortable discussing it with her father.
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@Lawyermom This is true, which is why it shouldn't be any of her business.
12
I was struck by the author’s issue with the fact that her 80-something father had only known this woman a few weeks. That doesn’t seem unreasonable to me. I mean...time’s a wastin’!
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@Bunnifer
If it's okay for the kids to have "hook up" dates, what's wrong with the old folks having a go?
14
Being elderly does not mean becoming asexual. I hope that the next time the nursing home calls the author that she says "of course, supply him with condoms and make sure he understands how to use them." Then she can go have "the talk" if she believes he lacks cognitive capacity to give consent to sex.
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@Margareta I don't understand why the facility would consult her at all. Why is this her business?
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@Margareta
I work with older adults and we provide condoms freely. I don't see why that phone call needed to be made.
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@Glen Ridge Girl It IS hard to understand why a facility would disclose this information in the absence of a guardianship situation. I guess I was so busy negatively reacting more to the tone of the author I didn't think about this part.
51
The only outrage here is that a man who has lived a long life had to have his child consulted about whether he can "have" contraception. Well, that and the urge to "dry heave" simply because you've learned he's sexually active.
There is a reason the elderly are fed up with the way they are treated. This was disturbing on multiple levels. None of them the ones the author intended.
894
@AhBrightWings Maybe theory heaves can be explained by this sentence---
I have muddled memories of my parents’ closed-door arguments about my father’s extracurricular activities with other women
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@AhBrightWings Agreed. TMI. Private stuff and respect for privacy.
7
@AhBrightWings I agree. I was taken aback on reading that the author felt the urge to "dry heave."
18
Ms. Zapalac, I am 80, basically healthy and have all my marbles. I think you should get ready to, as you wrote, "hold back [your] my urge to dry heave". Guess what my lovely wife and I did last night? Ageist much?.
766
I sincerely hope my husband and I are still at it when we are 80. Sir, you have my respect and my congratulations.
27
@Whoever
Ageism is rampant in our country. I was treated with incredible respect in Mexico - a land that reveres its elders. What gives with the U.S.? (I am almost 80).
26
Aren't we talking about two adults? Why is it shocking that two elderly human beings seek comfort and pleasure? As long as it is consensual on both sides the writer should be grateful that her father still has the will to pursue emotional and physical desires. Who is being harmed?
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@Nenuphar : the author did not imply it was either inappropriate for her father to be sexually active nor that anyone would be harmed: only that the discussion would be embarrassing for her. Many do not care to discuss sex with their parents. The issue of consent becomes very difficult when cognitive impairment is involved.
48
@Amanda Why is she involved at all in her father's intimate life?
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@Amanda - Why did she need to discuss it with him at all? All she had to do was give permission to the social worker to supply protection. This whole essay rather baffles me.
40
This was hysterical and made my day. Thank you so much for this essay. Happy Valentines Day!
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@Sara I felt the same 😁
13
As an older person with an adult daughter, I found the author's attitudes frightening. I'm saddened, not at all amused. There is nothing funny here whatsoever.
9
@Sara - A Seinfeld episode with George and his parents?
1
The idea that an old man is still interested in sex is because he’s “needy” seems questionable. Not that we aren’t all “needy” to one degree or another.
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@Peter Silverman Quite. Thank you for pointing that out. It is sad how the writer seemed to be ashamed of her father's normal need for warmth and connection, but perhaps reflects our cultural norms which idealise independence. l
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@Peter Silverman Needy is a fair characterization, and may even be generous to explain the father's many infidelities. Were your spouse unfaithful, what words would you use to describe them? Needy? Or worse?
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@Peter Silverman
Well, I'd say a life habit of routinely cheating on one's spouse reveals a bit of selfishness, at the least.
6
I don't understand the writer's outrage here --- why deny her father, who is after all, a full grown adult, the pleasure of a sexual relationship in his nursing facility? What possible purpose is served by doing so?
At this stage of his life, he likely has few things to look forward to and few close relationships -- if he has met someone he cares for and she for him and they want to become intimate, who not? His life is short and he deserves whatever happiness he can have in the time left.
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@Buckeye Given the last line, it doesn't seem like she plans on denying him anything. Given his cognitive limitations, it makes sense to discuss STDs and consent ahead of time if possible.
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@Buckeye
I think the idea was to make sure he would be using condoms to prevent STI spread. As the author stated her dad has cognitive issues, otherwise the nursing home would not be asking her permission. Legally, they have to make sure he is able to consent still. Many people with cognitive problems can but if he gets to the point where he can't (or can't understand whether the other person is consenting) then it becomes an issue of possible sexual assault. I didn't read this as anyone trying to stop this man from having sex but rather that they needed to make sure he was having safe sex which it sounds like he might need help to do due to his cognitive problems.
Not so long ago the nursing home would likely have banned this man from any sort of relationship. The fact that the SW was calling his legal guardian (and that's the only way the adult child would be giving permission for anything) to make sure dad was having safe sex says they support a healthy sex life for the residents.
165
@Buckeye : there is no "outrage"! That is your own dirty lens. Just awkwardness, as there usually is in these discussions.
44