I want to live in a Democracy under the rule of Law.
Unfortunately the GOP Senate has confirmed that Trump can be a dictator above the rule of law.
It is time for the Blue States to secede!
98
My acquaintance from Louisville just called.
She lives in Kentucky for almost 40 years.
Russian jew as I'm.
The ambivalence, the indifference, the lack of desire to even talk about the state of this country is shocking to me.
Why they even emigrated, what their decision was based on.
We're Banana Republic, the puppet in a WH bends us to submission to Russian style regime, but even in Russia it was a mass government resignation, just in January in protest of Putin's constitutional shake-up!
The Entire Russian Government Has Resigned
Needless to say we don't have much in common, since her point is that we can't change anything anyway...why bother talking.
Definitely something in Kentucky waters.
Please read this from Masha Gessen...
Autocracy: Rules for Survival
Masha Gessen
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/10/trump-election-autocracy-rules-for-survival/
https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-prime-minister-submits-resignation-to-putin-reports-say
28
Kakistocracy. Look it up. Vote it out.
42
The headline writes itself
"The Rights Big Lie About "
...Climate change, trickle down economics, tax cuts, election interference, immigration...on and on and on...
48
Re: "...A few months ago, Credico texted me, “If Stone goes to jail I’m a walking dead man.”
Why does a(ny) U.S. president 'enjoy the company' of a fool who threatens people, such, that they make comments like the one, above?
What kind of U.S. president has so, many assistants in jail?
57
How about the fact that Tomeka Hart who was a the lead juror in Stone's case, has been revealed that she was a former candidate for congress who ran as a Democrat in 2012. Do you think the judge should reopen the case?! It's also the case that "U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson had denied a defense request to strike a potential juror who was Obama-era press official with admitted anti-Trump views -- and whose husband worked at the same Justice Department division that handled the probe leading to Stone's arrest. And, another Stone juror, Seth Cousins, donated to former Democratic presidential candidate Beto O'Rourke and other progressive causes..."
Should the case therefore be reopened? Seems the verdict is tainted beyond corrupt partiality, no?! Dandy Credico is the tip of the iceberg, it seems.
7
Nine years
30
Is anyone else horrified that Trump actually targeted a juror? What's next? She wakes up with a horse head in her bed?
93
Under Trump it no longer is a "swamp", it's a cess pool.
58
Welcome Americans! You are the richest Banana Republic of the world.
55
Barr is a CRIMINAL and must go to jail.
48
Remember who Trump really is... not the person(?) he's selling.
“It would not be impossible to prove with sufficient repetition and a psychological understanding of the people concerned that a square is in fact a circle. They are mere words, and words can be molded until they clothe ideas and disguise.” ― Joseph Goebbels, German Nazi Minister of Propaganda
“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.” ― Joseph Goebbels
“Success is the important thing. Propaganda is not a matter for average minds, but rather a matter for practitioners. It is not supposed to be lovely or theoretically correct. I do not care if I give wonderful, aesthetically elegant speeches, or speak so that women cry. The point of a political speech is to persuade people of what we think right. I speak differently in the provinces than I do in Berlin, and when I speak in Bayreuth, I say different things than I say in the Pharus Hall. That is a matter of practice, not of theory. We do not want to be a movement of a few straw brains, but rather a movement that can conquer the broad masses. Propaganda should be popular, not intellectually pleasing. It is not the task of propaganda to discover intellectual truths.”
-Joseph Goebbels
Donald Trump 'kept book of Adolf Hitler's speeches in his bedside cabinet' [Independent]
52
The Big Lie is the one at the root of all this: that Russia is an existential threat to the U.S. bent on our destruction. It undergirds all this nonsense and silly liberals just lap it up.
6
thank you, Michelle
11
So, here's an article about what was said between Credico and Stone...
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/exclusive-text-messages-show-stone-friend-discussing-wikileaks-plans-n936371
and then this...
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/stone-witness-randy-credico-defends-prosecutors-assails-incarceration
Read them instead of being lazy and trusting partisan writers.
1
If only Stephen Miller could become Roger Stone's cellmate. Heck, add Trump for the perfect Trifecta.
Wouldn't that be a hoot.
28
Best columnist here these days
17
Corruption is the message Dems need to hammer---every minute of every day.
22
The worst part of this already terrible story is threatening jurors. That is unimaginably beyond all limits of the rule of law. Serving on a jury is something we are all compelled do from time to time as a civic duty. I believe this is a felony.
48
"After his tweet, Barr overruled career prosecutors to have the D.O.J. ask the court for a lighter sentence. (Barr claims his decision preceded Trump’s tweet, which might mean he was anticipating Trump’s wishes rather than responding to them.)...
... Following this unprecedented political meddling..."
.
Such intellectual dishonesty. Ms Goldberg goes from speculation to fact, without missing a beat. The whole piece is like this. She knows how people are feeling. She takes everything Credico says as truth, and everything the other side does or says as lies.
.
I dislike Trump and his crew as much as the next reasonable American, but this kind of writing, called "Opinion" but cast as fact ("Trump allies are saying Stone didn’t really threaten a witness. They’re wrong"), is shoddy journalism. It would have no place in the Times of old. It's a great harm to US democracy that it has a place in today's Times.
7
Did you ever think Barr is privy to prosecutorial misconduct that the Durham investigation has uncovered? How much evidence was used based on illegally obtained search warrants? Barr has let Comey and McCabe off already. He’s looking into what happened to Flynn. Durham and Barr know a lot nobody else does. If anyone believes the Mueller investigation was fair after the Horowitz report, wait for the ending.
2
Trump only cares about himself. The key is whether Stone might flip in exchange for a lighter sentence. (Thieves have more honor than Trump and his associates.) Stone, a self acknowledged political dirty trickster, almost certainly knows how Trump and his campaign coordinated with Wikileaks to release hacked emails. Some US political operative probably had to curate the hacked files for maximum effect.
Those leaks started just ahead of the 2016 Dem convention and continued every two weeks, topped by a special release within two hours of the Access Hollywood tape. There's actually an email from Steve Bannon that appears to congratulate Stone on the last dump.
A pardon has been telegraphed numerous times, but Trump wants cover. That's why he rails, without justification, about the unfairness of Stone's trial, the proposed sentence, the judge, and even the jury. If the sentence turns out to be light, Trump will still say it's unfair. The only question is whether his pardon, along with ones for Manafort and Flynn, will wait until after the election. I say it's even money and depends on how he's polling.
8
Here’s a weird thought. Stone is Trump’s buddy, and Trump wanted to do what any buddy would do — stick up for your friend. Maybe this is all juvie-personal and not political. At least in the Trump universe. Maybe we are all over-reacting.
1
Just a warning of what you might be in for if you go against anything or anyone Trump favors. No one is too small to be threatened or worse.
8
The real "tell" is if Hannity goes for the jugular on Trump TV. Since I don't think he has as of yet, you can be sure it was all a manipulative lie to the American people.
10
Ms. Goldberg is a fine opinion writer. But this is really good straight reporting. Not sure why the facts she's gathered about Credico's fears aren't showing up in straight "news" reporting that recycles Stone's false claims about Credico not feeling threatened.
A lot of the best reporting on Trump these days is in opinion columns. That doesn't speak well of our news media.
5
In Europe, in the 20th and 21st centuries, democratic governments were overturned by voters blind to what happens when power is voluntarily handed to sociopaths. All the dictators say and do the same things. It is a sad fact about our species that so many live by paranoia, hate, and scapegoating "inferiors".
We can now add to the list of totalitarian parties the GOP. They behave like Big Brother's party in 1984. Now, how do we get our democracy back? It's gone as long as Trump sycophants have power. Are all the children of House and Senate Republicans truly proud of their parents?
11
The "victim" himself dismissed the notion that he was threatened by Stone. He told investigators that they use colorful banter all the time in their communications.
With that evidence, how was this charge ever lounged? This sentence was cruel and unusual punishment. The prosecutors wanted his scalp to give the appearance that Mueller's investigation was legit when it should have wrapped up after a week.
3
Let's just say it. We elected a crime family.
And they, in turn, married a crime family (Kushner). Then, they hired people who commit crimes. And crimes have been committed. Full circle. Crime after crime after crime.
35
Thank you for bringing Credico's true feelings to light. It's been strange to hear Trump allies characterize how he feels, and claiming he didn't care at all about being threatened by Stone. We all know Trump will pardon Stone.Yet, it's still important that the justice system holds up and follows the Stone conviction to its logical conclusion, which is a tough sentence as recommended by sentencing standards. Barr sees Trump as his blunt instrument to advance his extreme rightwing ideology...and Trump sees Barr as his Roy Cohn. They're both right.
5
Lets see how Goldberg defends her position. Credo knew the words from Stone were spoken only to him and felt he had no real threat against either himself or the wonderful hund from Stone. But he thinks others may take those words and carry out some malevolent action (words only spoken to him and most likely in gest as he has acknowledged).
Who are the wonderful career prosecutors that Goldberg spreads praise all over. All four are Democrats, supposedly free from bias. Probably just like the Democrats who are the opinion writers here and violently attack Trump for anything and everything repeatedly and with great hyperbole since before he even took office. Or maybe, they are just like all everyday unbiased Democrats like Strok and Page (who hate Trump and all the stupid, smelly Walmart shoppers) or the lead Mueller prosecutor for Trump who attended in great pain the Hillary campaign victory celebration.
The Stone sentence recommendation was a political one. It deserved to be adjusted by the head of the department with the absolute right to do so. And remember, Trump or any President, has the right under the Constitution to pardon anyone. No more impeachment squeals from political hacks.
6
I despair at the sacrificing of American institutions and values. At how ignorant and complicit FOX has become. At the politicisation of institutions meant to protect ordinary citizens from corruption.
Here in bushfire ravaged Oz, people can't believe what's going down in the "home of the brave."
6
there is no honor and no integrity in making excuses for Stone.
5
Please do not forget that Stone ignored the judge's instructions to stop his internet campaign to undermine the trial process.He also threatenedthe judge on the internet. Stone is a smwrt aleck who should be punished for his diserespect and disregard for the judicial system. Lock him up.
11
The ancient I Ching, when asked about Trump:
"He bursts into flame, dazzles with his brilliance, spends his fuel, dies out quickly, and is forgotten.”
2
even if he is not pardoned stone will probably go to one of the country club prisons that the feds run for white, white collar criminals.
2
Trump, the authoritarian thug who runs the executive branch (while working to co-opt the other branches) like a mob boss heading a crime syndicate. The GOP enable his offenses and degradation of our Constitution, the separation of powers and the rule of law.
“An elective despotism was not the government we fought for; but one in which the powers of government should be so divided and balanced among the several bodies of magistracy as that no one could transcend their legal limits without being effectually checked and restrained by the others.”
― James Madison, 1788
7
My advice to Credico is the same thing Winona Ryder's son told her from the beyond in Stranger Things -- R-U-N.
3
Just asking, wasn't Credico's father a damaged man when he was "cracking safes " for a living before he went to prison? Give me a break.
2
I am profoundly obliged to you, Ms. Goldberg. Thank you.
I say this because--
--the TSUNAMI of malfeasance--of iniquity--of scandal--of dodgy tricks and dirty tricks and underhanded tricks that Mr. Trump (and his minions--oh he has plenty of those--don't we all know)--
--that TSUNAMI is such that most of us who are not professional journalists simply forget about it.
One scandal drives out another. While you're stilling gasping and blinking at the unheard-of boldness and brashness and impudence of ONE flagrant falsehood--
--another (like the head of the hydra) comes springing up to displace it.
I'd forgotten all about Mr. Credico. I'm afraid that, earlier, the whole business with Mr. Credico's dog struck me as comical--
"And your little dog TOO!" Shades of the Wicked Witch of the West.
Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa.
It wasn't funny. These guys are genuine criminals. It goes all the way to the top. The VERY top.
And some of them (I believe) are probably killers.
May God protect Mr. Credico.
May He protect ALL of us.
Amen.
5
Anyone who cares about America's laws has already seen that Trump is playing straight from the Roy Cohn Playbook. When someone has something on you: Attack Them! Attack Loudly, Relentlessly, and Baselessly if possible. Why baseless attacks? Attacks on someone's real faults can be disproven, confirmed and explained, apologized for, or stood up for.
Ah, but baseless attacks have that special Je ne sais quoi: They cannot be disproven because there is nothing to disprove. There is no defense except denial, and those who want to will always choose the belief they prefer. When the accused says 'That never happened', the attacker mocks 'That we know of!' and insists there is proof being covered up. And so on.
Example? Trump's claims about Obama's birthplace. Even the actual birth certificate was attacked, and many still choose to believe he was born in Kenya. That is the desired outcome of a deliberately false attack.
15
Credico is right to be worried. Next, we will get arrests and imprisonment for anyone the administration doesnt approve of.
6
Stone is the Gordon Liddy of Russiagate. He’s the one whom a Steve Bannon aide texted “Well done” to after Stone had facilitated the release of the Podesta tranche of stolen emails—this after asking Stone 3 days earlier if there was more dirt to come out of Russia. That Stone was a conduit to Russian interests (recall his Guccifer 2.0 contacts) for the Trump campaign there is little doubt. Liddy got 52 months even though he never personally set foot in those Dem offices at the Watergate. If Nixon could have pulled a Houdini from his impeachable charges by means of a cowed and pliant congress, he’d have likely pardoned Liddy and his whole gang of “plumbers.” Is this how well our country has learned it’s lesson from the agonizing ordeal of Dick Nixon’s Watergate so long ago?
5
Another abuse of the law by the Trump Crime Syndicate. Life in prison is too good for them and an unnecessary expense for us.
4
‘Sadness” doesn’t encapsulate my reaction.
1
Yet the real story this week is that in the end the Justice Department requested a reasonable sentence for Mr. Stone, and Mr. Barr schooled overzealous prosecutors in the importance of evenhandedness, integrity and respecting the chain of command. The only scandal, yet again, is that so much of partisan Washington is willing to throw mud on this progress in the name of damaging this White House.
35
@RP Actually the fact is the prosecutors (Justice lawyers) were following the guidelines for sentencing done by the Justice Department and passed while Sessions was the guy. They are used in all cases.
Chain of command would have been to meet with prosecutors and discuss if and why this case would be an exception. Stone had 7 separate guilty felonies proven and prosecuted by a Trump Justice department. His sentences were those that Justice uses for all cases.
246
@RP Chain of command? Ever heard of prosecutorial independence? The DOJ is not the military.
139
@RP Curious, has he done this for ALL Federal cases? Or just for Trump's friends. Especially a friend who blocked the Mueller investigation. Just wondering
188
"'A republic, if you can keep it.' We haven’t kept it. The question now is whether we ever get it back."
That's the money quote here. The needle might swing back and forth a bit, with the some Administrations making apparent repairs to civil service independence and ethics, and other Administrations and Congress making things a lot worse. But I'm
really afraid that the overall trend line is set in the direction of a sham democracy.
13
"We haven’t kept it. The question now is whether we ever get it back."
The only way to get it back is to shine some daylight on WHY it was lost in the first place, over generations, because without that there's no ability to set a course. If you recognize my name and have been following my adventures, then you know it has to come out, somehow.
Otherwise, we're all done.
1
History teaches us that the rise of evil is always incremental, that's what makes it insidious.
Societal norms that provide cohesion and decorum aren't washed away overnight, they're eroded.
Those of you reading this are living in an extraordinary time - both fascinating and frightening.
Make no mistake, you'll be the ones who look retrospectively and say: "I was there".
18
The only thing that counts is whether Trump's base is bigger than Bernie's. We'll see next November. All else is just spinning our verbal wheels.
2
I thought that a possible sentence for crimes committed by Stone could have been 50 years. Seven to nine is significantly less than the maximum. Or am I wrong about that?
5
If I understand this was one charge but there were 6 others he was convicted of. The sentences were taken from the DOJ guidelines and followed as instructed. These guidelines used thousands of times and never interfered with until now. Sessions under trump did the guidelines. Barr inserted himself without conferring with his own prosecutors.
19
Another excellent piece.
Michelle Goldberg is the gold standard.
13
This column is moot. Stone will be re-tried. Foreman from original trial (and attorney) lied to judge about his antipathy toward Trump.
3
It’s bigger news if The Right tells the truth about something.
13
As long as Big Lies are allowed, we will be unable to address any of our major problems. So dealing with Big Lies is the necessary precondition to dealing with any of our major problems.
We have two main popular views of reality, each of which sees the other as out of touch with the reality it is in touch with. One or both of these views of reality could be wrong, but they cannot both be right about what is going on (although they might both be correct about the other side's misperception of what is going on).
Without deciding what is real, anything we try to do will bring back the conflict on what is real. So we should put aside anything that is not as much an emergency as the coronavirus and work on reaching a common decision on what is real.
An election preceded by brutal propaganda wars is a stupid and ineffective way to decide what is real. Before we can reach a common decision on what is real, we need a way to reach a common decision or agreement on how to decide. Possible ways now in use are the Bible, the scientific method, the results of jury trials, and the sales pitch that succeeds in selling. Right now we use the sales pitch because no other method has general acceptance -- and the sales pitch is what we get, what we default to, when we cannot agree on what is real because we cannot agree on how to tell what is real.
We are in deep trouble.
9
Excellent reporting, and a much-needed clarification.
Re the threats: there's not much more chilling than threatening a specific pet, because it doesn't sound like a bluff. Although threats to spouse or children may seem like a higher order, they're a lot harder to carry out than slipping the dog some rat poison.
There are many outrageous parts to this story but I think the worst is that Mr. Trump either doesn't know or doesn't care that lying to Congress is a real crime,.
Amazing how the party of law and order doesn't grasp a wide variety of crimes when committed by an enthusiast, but leaps on tearing up a speech.
12
If Robert Mueller had not been such a coward, spoken the plain truth and not handed his investigative report over to Barr to quash this entire charade of a "Trump administration" ( a classic oxymoronic non-sequitur) would have ended ages ago.
15
It’s a total drama and eyewash by Trump, DOJ, and William Barr. We all know that Roger Stone will be pardoned. It’s just a matter of time.
199
@Sanjeev Mishra
Present rules regarding presidential pardons require a waiting time of 5 years after having fully served any prison term imposed as part of the sentence. Such pardons would require that they break that rule.
21
@Robert Rules? How quaint.
23
@Robert
"Such pardons would require that they break that rule."
Since when has that ever been an obstacle?
16
T. J. Kirkpatrick's extraordinary portrait perfectly encapsulates the hatred, contempt, and indignation of Roger Stone, Trump, and Trump's most ardent supporters.
7
Correction - there is one set of laws in this country for the rich and another for everyone else.
Don’t like paying taxes? Set up a company offshore to hold all your income. Inevitably, the Republicans will give you a pass on bring the income onshore tax-free.
Don’t like paying workers? No problem, wage theft is a legitimate business strategy in the GOP book.
Want to fix our elections? It’s constitutional if the GOP believe it is for the good of “the people”.
Pollute, kill, steal.... the pursuit of profit is the highest national goal.
23
Putting a gadfly like Roger Stone makes as much sense as imprisoning Mark Twain. Both being harmless miscreants of rhetoric.
3
Stone lied to obstruct justice. Thats not quite as trivial as you might wish.
5
I am ambivalent about Trump.I imagine after many decades of the USA's economy and the culture of greed is good I am not sure we need any ties economic, moral, or otherwise with the USA. We have just about the best economy in the world, here in Quebec Bill21 is being slammed by your so called left when after centuries of theocracy and ultra conservative government will are getting our Freedom from Religion laws passed by our center right government. They are the same Freedom from Religion Laws our liberals tried to pass before their corruption became too obvious to ignore.
There will be an economic upheaval if Trump is reelected but I have been advocating a sea to sea prophylactic to give us protection from US influence but American isolation may be just what both Canada and the USA need to end our unhealthy dysfunctional relationship.
Our ethics and your ethics are not complimentary. We are globalists and that has made us very rich but we are not able to understand how much corruption is too much and it seems that corruption is as natural as breathing for America. America is rich enough and powerful enough to try isolation as a remedy to its dysfunction and we have entered enough trade associations to at least cushion the blow.
In our justice system the law is always on trial because the law serves justice. I don't think many of us can even imagine a Bill Barr as a head of of justice because justice and injustice are not synonyms.
7
Here's what they won't say. Prison is not for white people. There are countless examples of black 1st time offenders having the book thrown at them. When white people guilty of the same crime are sentenced, then we hear the comments about ruining someone's life, or fairness. The truth is the justice process was never meant to back up on white citizens. Now that it has, it's true purpose is being revealed in the manner in which people are going to keep white people in general and Trump people in particular from getting their just desserts.
18
Thank you for your article. More reporters and politicians should write and speak as plainly about the danger of this administration.
6
If anything, regardless of Stone's age, witness tampering is so serious that Stone should get a longer sentence. The "mean" sentence that Trump denigrated was actually well within sentencing guidelines. I am reminded once again of the man who murdered his parents and then begged for mercy because he became an orphan. The perpetrator's age should not be a deciding factor in sentencing. The crime and any remorse or lack of it should be much more important.
19
@Barbara - - - That witness never felt threatened by Stone, as he testified later. Perhaps you could go to a real news source and read what actually happened.
The average rapist serves less time than the obviouly prejudiced jury and judge gave this poor defendant. But does that even matter since we're talking about political opponents?
5
Can you imagine Trump Act II without the encumbrance of a reelection. It really does mean the end of America, the dream.
12
@kingsmen I believe the dream is already over.
2
This reliance on fear of inchoate potential threats from unnamed people is very common in Democrats absurd attempts to make allegations and not rely on sworn testimony.
We just had a "fake" impeachment where the supposed whistleblower couldn't be named. The dramatic threats was that some unnamed person or agency would"harm" him. If course, it's an end run around having an actual witness, requiring sworn testimony, and having a person who could be fact checked and then prosecuted for perjury .
Why have an "Impeachment without evidence"? Because the impeachment drama was meant to affect the primary nominations and the elections.
5
Mitch McConnell could put a stop to this corruption of our constitution and the underlying laws but he doesn't. The tools are there. The question to ask Is why doesn't he use them.
16
By his own admission, Stone is a provocateur. That 7-9 year sentence was already a reduction from whatever id considered the prescribed sentence; although I don't know exactly what it is,i do know it's a lot longer.
In any case, lock him up!
20
If you actually read the prosecution sentencing memorandum and review the federal Sentencing Guidelines, you will see that Stone's threat to Credico is the single greatest, by far, "enhancement" to the otherwise base sentencing guideline of 18 to 21 months for a first time offender. In that regard, it IS significant that Credico never believed that Stone himself would actually hurt him (or his dog). Rather, Credico - rather melodramatically and with no small amount of self-importance - feared that a Trump supporter, not Stone, would do him harm because he provided key testimony contradicting Stone. In other words, his fear had nothing to do with Stone's bombastic threat itself. Now to be clear (1) Trump's interference was completely inappropriate; (2) the prosecutors in charge of the case are dedicated public servants who do not deserve to be smeared; and (3) the prosecution's own sentencing memorandum acknowledges there is considerable discretion in how to apply the sentencing enhancements. Finally, someone needs to explain to Credico that his "Jack Ruby" comment makes no sense: Jack Ruby killed JFK's assassin, not somebody who implicated the assassin.
6
And this now. Another reminder how our democracy is dead.
Breaking News: Attorney General William Barr is scrutinizing another inquiry into a Trump associate: He assigned a prosecutor to review Michael Flynn's case.
It never will stop.
donnies personal justice dept and AG will help all of Donnie dirty dealers.
22
The justice department isn’t in charge of sentencing, the judge is. The Justice Department merely makes recommendations. The defense also makes recommendations. Ultimately, the judge (judicial system) is in control of this. This will be a decision free from political considerations just as intended.
7
@Michelle Goldberg
Thank you for the meticulous clarity on this.
Will we get our Republic back?
It took us 240 years to get where we were in 2016. Considering the damage done, it seems unlikely many of us will live to see its reconstruction.
17
To Franklin's comment on "...if you can keep it.," and Ms. Goldberg's query on if we ever get it back: No.
We may see a semi-similar facsimile thereof resurgent, but the Republic is done. Once an arrogation of power the executive is taken and not immediately overruled by the Courts or Congress, it becomes a permanent prerogative. The more outrageous the act the better; it changes the political calculus in favor of the offender. There are no consequences for overt criminal conduct by DJT loyalists, only for the dissidents.
The AG's blatant PR stunt is just that, a stunt to quell the clamoring voices. The AG has made his fealty to the omnipotent executive know for decades, while his attitudes towards social issues do not apply to the vehicle that lets him. get there. Laws are only of value to stomp on the opposition.
Norms? We don't need no stinkin' norms.
12
For the President there aren't two sets of laws. There is only one set, the law according to Trump.
15
Mr. Credico must remember that his actions did not put Stone in danger of a stiff sentence. Stone's actions, I hope, will put Stone behind bars.
16
Franklin, updated; "An autocratic kleptocracy, if we can pull it off."
7
Trump is determined to become America's first dictator able to operate as Putin and Kim and needs to use fear to bully his way into absolute power. THe spineless republicans are terrified of a mean Trump tweet and want to keep cashing in on republican goodwill that Trump can end immediately. Ending the free press and using executive orders to use congressionally approved funds any way he wants. Military and law enforcement need to wear MAGA hats in public to cause fear among dissidents. Trump's dictatorship is slowly unfolding and we are all the proverbial frog unaware of his goals.
15
Let's not forget that Stone also threatened the judge. In the normal world, any witness that threatened a judge and intimidated a witness--as well as did everything he could to hide evidence--should not ever expect to see the light of day again.
But I guess friends of the tyrant don't live in the normal world.
I guess that so long as Lindsey Graham, Susan Collins, Lamar Alexander, Cory Gardner, Martha McSally, and Mitch McConnell are comfortable with this, if they're comfortable with a president attacking a private citizen sitting on a jury, we will have to persevere, at least for a while.
But we will never forget. They own this--every last tweet.
44
The jury foreman is being criticized not for finding Stone guilty but for allegedly lying during voir dire, saying she did not follow the whole Russian investigation and knew nothing about Stone... only to have it discovered now... allegedly.. that she made dozens of social media posts on the two subjects going back to the beginning of Mueller's investigation
I have no idea if that is true but for the huge amount of money I pay to get the Times ($1 a week) I would expect you guys to confirm or dispute the allegations
9
"........On Thursday, in an authoritarian escalation, Trump tweeted an attack on the jury forewoman in the Stone case, singling out a private citizen for abuse because she’d dared to find one of his henchman guilty."
Maine Senator Susan Collins, are you happy with the way Trump is "learning his lesson" from being impeached?
Susan Collins, you're either incredibly naive with poor judgement or you are dishonest. Which is it?
31
This piece refutes itself. The author ultimately admits that the sentence recommendation was too harsh but then complains that Barr doesn't believe in reducing sentences generally. (Maybe he should, but that has nothing to do with this case.) If it was too harsh, then why are we not going to permit the DOJ - the boss of the "career prosecutors" - to intervene and ask for a more reasonable sentence? Because they're "careeer prosecutors" and so they are beholden to no one? That makes no sense. The DOJ is ultimately responsible. Note the author's clever use of rhetoric. If an official does something she likes, they are a brave, non-political "career" employee with nothing but good intentions. If an official does something she doesn't like, they are in slavish obedience to Trump, etc. If an investigation is carried out against someone the author doesn't like, it's a brave, independent investigation; if it's against her allies (like Comey) the investigation is a sham. And according to the author it's perfectly fine to denigrate and denounce officials such as Barr, but if you do it against other officials she likes, like Comey or Brennan, suddenly our democracy is being destroyed. It's impossible to treat any of this as anything other than just politics; and everyone's a hypocrite.
22
@R.P.
"The author ultimately admits that the sentence recommendation was too harsh"
No, what she said is:
It’s perfectly legitimate to argue that the sentencing guidelines that the original prosecutors relied on in the Stone case are too harsh;
Very different.
117
@R.P.
It's not specifically the What of the change in sentence recommendation that is worrisome, it's the When and Why and At Whose Direction.
The DOJ has tried roughly 300,000 cases since Trump became pres. This is the only case in which the DOJ top brass has intervened to reduce the sentence recommendation.
99
@R.P. However the real injustice will be when Trump pardons Stone. Stone will never serve any significant time in jail because he is on team Trump. That is how justice works under fascists.
102
How will the election go? He said he would have contested the results of Hilary won so what will he do this time? Now he knows all of the republicans but Mitt will back him.
What protections do we have in place to keep him from claiming the election- if he loses and doesn’t manipulate it so much he wins - ?
11
We seem to forget that during the Revolutionary war nearly half the people wanted to remain under British rule of King George, At the same time half of those in favor of the Revolution where doing so because they feared England was going to end slavery and prevent further expansion west into the Indian Territories. Need I remind you slaver and oppression of native Indians was enshrined into the Constitution.
The point being that despite some of the high minded principles in our founding documents, at the root of our nation was a great evil. Over the years it did not go away - i.e. the Civil War and Segregation - but was quietly waiting for the likes of Donald Trump and today's hate driven, exploitive, lying, ignorant, vindictive, and power mad Republican Party.
15
Yes. Read Stamped from the beginning by Ibrim X Kendi on the history of racist ideas in America. It benefited people greatly. You can claim God wanted you to do it- it’s ordained.
We have never faced our past. We have never apologized, as a nation, for the founding of this nation and what blood and cruelty went into it. Genocide.
These guys love Andrew Jackson the mass murderer. We also have to remember that the slave owners were selling their own children and rape of black women was legal. You can see these guys fitting in quite well in that society, they are trying to maintain the same deceit and brutality.
1
This ridiculous sentence 'They call it ‘serving at the pleasure of the President.'
The phrase is as old as the republic itself.
It should be eliminated and replace ASAP by 'serving at the pleasure of the Country'
https://newrepublic.com/article/155762/donald-trump-absolute-power-presidency
12
Barr need not waste his breath. We don't need Trump's tweets to know full well that Barr is his stooge.
32
Trump is unabashedly trying to weaponize the Justice Dept., boldly claiming he has the "legal right" to intervene in criminal cases. Since Trump isn't Emperor of the United States, what legal right is he babbling about?
Barr's little tv performance was very unconvincing, so judge William Barr by his actions, not his self-serving rhetoric.
29
@Mark McIntyre
Trump is lying. He has no legal education and consults no one before he speaks/tweets.
He does this all the time.
11
How is this "unprecedented political meddling" where Trump fired the FBI Director and the AG earlier?
1
I can't stop thinking that Roger Stone is not only the link between Trump, Wikileaks, and Russia but also between Trump and Jeffrey Epstein.
25
Trump had a rape accusation by a woman who was thirteen at one of Epstein’s underage sex parties. She withdrew the charges bc of death threats.
And to think he was elected to office. He has many rape accusations and bragged about assault. There is nothing he can do wrong to his supporters.
The truth does not matter.
3
Just one big lie among many. The right lost its ability to tell the truth 40 years ago.
24
The sentence fit the guideline. The judge is the one being pressured to reduce the sentence. If justice is actually a thing anymore, the judge will uphold the 7-9 years and America will be safe from the folly of this president and his friendly criminal element.
14
Stone threatened the judge with his crosshairs image. She really should have revoked his bail then and there.
31
@Cfiverson
I agree. I would have locked him up in a heartbeat. But I read that she is playing it very safe with Stone, in order to preclude any later attempt for him to scream that he didn't get a fair trial.
But, hey, the president is doing the screaming for him.
4
Mr. stone was CONVICTED by a jury of his peers. He has the right to appeal his conviction & his sentencing. PERIOD!
9
@Bob
The point of this discussion is does the President have the right to intervene in a judicial process, sentencing by a judge in a criminal trial. Trump might pardon Stone after the process is complete; however he is challenging the judge directly. There is no way to pretend that Trump understands the law, or the judicial process. The list of Stone's criminal activity is a matter of public record, as is the threat he made to the judge.
4
@Bob
Nobody's saying that he can't. He can appeal to the Supreme Court for all I care.
What people are saying is that it's not okay for the president to interfere on his behalf.
3
We don’t know whether the hubbub at justice affects the sentence until the judge in Stone’s case issues a sentence. She is the ultimate arbiter, and even if DOJ says a 90-100 month sentence is its recommendation, it is as it says, a recommendation. My guess is that the DOJ recommendation was excessive, but he will get a substantial sentence nonetheless. My guess is 36 to 60 months. What I haven’t seen reported yet is what the probation department’s recommendation is, which is likely to be where the judge comes out.
2
I trust the Justice Department to find the appropriate sentence for Stone. They prosecute criminals all the time and are not going to politicize Stone's crime, but try and sentence him based on facts. It's not Credico's place to set the sentence, it's the judge's at the recommendation of the prosecutors. Trump has a rather grandiose view of his place in the world, and thinks he's above the law. Barr supports that view, and as Trump's right hand man, might decide to give himself similar privileges. Not good for the country.
7
It wasn't only threatening a witness, either. Stone defied the judge at every opportunity.showed no repentance or understanding that he has done anything wrong. Not a candidate for a reduced sentence.
26
Sounds like the impeachment trial.
A brilliant article that carefully and very clearly uncovers the truth of this important matter. We need more journalism like this, and more ways for 'Joe public' to take it seriously. Thank you, Michelle!
13
I have my doubts for the future of the republic. Unless the VP nominee is the second choice to give the moderates a hope, they’ll stay home. They are worse than the Bernie Bro’s. If you don’t believe me, try to imagine moderate Republicans switching sides for Bernie.
4
Barr, the stooge of trump, claims he ignores his tweets. We should include Barr's lies with the thousands of lies already spoken by the liar in chief and can expect the total to continue to increase
13
Stone is important because he was the linchpin in the 2016 operation, the actual person handling the actual connections. Erase him and it looks like a bunch of tangential hits and near misses. Include him and it looks like the conspiracy that the sherlocks on the Mueller team struggled so hard not to see.
He has earned the extraordinary efforts that are being made to protect him.
3
@hquain: This tempest in a teapot is about hacked e-mails that are too boring for anyone to bother to read.
Can you believe this is happening in America in the 21st Century? You think President Trump and Co. can’t get any nuttier or bolder and then they do! I envy the historians of 2070 (if we last that long) as they dig through the emails, the tweets, the phone calls, the archives, the congressional records and Whitehouse files. The selfies. And then when the Moscow videos are finally released and we realize what really happened to us. Thinking of tattoo of Nixon covering most of Stone’s back, I wonder how many cons (convicts and con men) will have Trump’s wighat tattooed on their back sides?
9
Climate change will do so much damage by then/ or more super viruses . These guys are nailing the coffin of our future on this planet. Make no mistake the right wing is trying to take over the entire world.
Look at Brazil and the rainforests - indigenous leaders and activists being assassinated. Look at Australia and the Murdoch news influenced population , many who don’t believe in climate change after their continent was / is on fire and a billion animals were burned alive . This is bigger than the USA and we need to do something fast for the future of the world.
They will burn it down.
Still waiting for someone to invoke the 25th Amendment.
19
OUR constitution and democracy are dead. and every day we see evidence of this.
we now have a bigot dictatorship with a political party who is too afraid to defend the constitution.
it is so clear that barr has no intension to step down because donnie makes his job of defending him harder.
both stone and manafort to be made happy so they don't turn on donnie.
10
Roger Stone is a Saul Alinsky for the right. He is always up to mischief. He knew in advance that he would be pardoned by Trump, regardless of the facts. He always wears the confident smirk that says "Ha on you" to the left. Expect much more of the same once he's pardoned. Except now, it's more obvious, wicked and dastardly.
5
Stone is joke, a sick one at that. I wouldn’t feel too worried about a threat from this guy. Like his boss, Trump, I see him as nothing more than a loudmouth, who’ll melt,away when actually confronted.
4
Don’t confuse them with the facts.
2
Michele Goldman: I am deeply grateful for the depth and clarity of your thought, the way you express yourself and your uncompromising integrity in journalism. You are a gift to your employer.
501
@anonymous
Michelle is a gift to both journalism and the people of the United States.
72
@anonymous,
I agree. Ms. Goldman has been offering us brilliant analysis, commentary, and exposés that help us to make sense of it all and to despair all the more (I am sorry to say!). She is one of the great chroniclers and commentators of our troubled times.
65
@anonymous
She is definitely my favorite columnist. I always drop everything if I see she in on a panel discussion on MSNBC.
There are so many times on The Argument podcast where she so perfectly articulates exactly what I’m feeling.
44
"A republic if we can keep it". Indeed. Our problem is that the "Republic" is the or a problem and may not be worth keeping in its present form. In the early days (1780-1800) there were battles between Jefferson, Hamilton, and Monroe. Jefferson was the Republican who wanted a "small or even a virtually non-existant federal government. There would just be States that would remain good buddies. Hamilton was the Federalist who wanted a strong Federal government and a national Treasury. Monroe flip-flopped and defended both sides at various times. Although neither side could, in the course of history, claim ultimate victory, recent events suggest Jefferson might have had his head in the clouds over his Virginia farm and slaves. He prevailed in getting Washington DC as the nation's capital although almost no one lived there (It now has more people than a number of States but no senators.) Hamilton wanted NYC as did the people living in Boston MS. But Jefferson's dream of high-minded states that would be good buddies got us the electoral college, 60 more years of slavery, the second amendment that scares Credico, and in the 21st century, a tyranny of the minority. It may be time for a do-over.
11
Trump was not impeached because Barr put a halt to the Mueller investigation behind the scenes, and made sure Mueller sited the one-page memo that allegedly equates to DOJ policy regarding indicting a sitting President (look up the history of that document-written during Watergate by an underling since there was no policy before that).
The republicans and Trumps trial team continually argued that you should not impeach in an election year, that the voters should be the ultimate jury under the Constitution.
Why did no one point out then that the Constitution included impeachment, it did not include citizens voting for or against the President or Vice President. The Electoral College was made up of those chosen by the States to determine the Executive. So why is the voting of citizens cited by folks who tend to be strict constructionists with the US Constitution??
Because Trump told them to. And he told Stone what to do, and Giuliani and Cohen and and and.
Good people don't use the omissions in laws as their cover for their acts. They treat the spirit and letter of the law equally. America feels more like the Corleone family is in charge every day.
12
This is exactly what winning looks like. Trump will dramatize this issue until he has squeezed out every last drop of media outrage. Once the media has embraced the fact that a 9 year prison sentence for Stone was ridiculous, Donald will point to all the Democrats that lied in the Russia hoax and got a free pass. Then he will demand equal justice for them and after they are sentenced then he can pardon Stone. See, winning!
I'm just a deplorable from Missouri that's had a difficult life. Eighth grade was a very long 3 years but even I can see what's going on here. There are two sets of rules and Trump is exposing it. Don't just take my word for it great people like Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity agree completely.
6
@RS
I liked your comment.
A view different than mine but it was great. Right to your beliefs and point.
All the intelligence services you probably supported as I did after 9/11 - good Americans who keep us safe - all agree on Russian interference to help Trump in 2016.
But, suddenly, because Trump is implicated in squirly dealings (and I think we all know his background) he calls these patriotic Americans "Deep State."
I see it as him always trying to pull himself out of the messes of his own making. He's a guy who doesn't like the rules the rest of know we should follow and when he steps in it, everyone else is wrong and out to get him.
That's his way of getting out of responsibility.
Speaking of eighth grade, I knew a dumb teen or two who acted like him.
But, they figured life out.
Tampering with our institutions and democractic system that we fight and die for so that one man can have his cake is definitely not winning.
My advice- let go of Donald.
We'll do OK without him.
It'll be just fine.
For conservatives and liberals.
9
Credico worry is justified, but it really doesn't matter what sentence Stone gets. The longest he will be in jail is until November, if he is not pardoned before that. In the meantime, Credico should be provided federal security so that he can rest more easily.
As to Barr, he wants Trump to stop tweeting because Trump keeps telling the truth, that Barr is his toady, and that makes it harder to go to court and tell a judge, who wants to respect the DOJ, that Trump has nothing to do with their positions. Trump keeps exposing his interference, Barr wants to pretend there isn't any. All of Trump's lawyers tell him to be quiet while he is being investigated or prosecuted. But after he is "acquitted" he explodes. After all, he can shoot someone on 5th Avenue with no consequences for him.
15
When I was a teenager during the Cold War I joined the Army. I learned to shoot my rifle at targets shaped like Russian soldiers, and to identify Soviet tanks and aircraft (which I can still do today) in order to shoot them down. Back then, what made us the Good Guys, as compared to the "Evil Empire," was that we 1) did not torture people, 2) did not throw people in jail for political retribution, and 3) had a nice little thing called habeas corpus which meant that everyone got a speedy trial, a jury of their peers and politically impartial judges. Much of that is either gone or on the wane. Day by day the US is transforming into the old USSR. Oh the irony that the party that railed for decades on the evils of communism and Russia is the party that now seeks to eliminate everything at once set us above them, with Corporate Socialism in lieu of the communist party as the driver of society.
17
The way things are shaping up, in the next few years, we won’t be hearing about any threats to witnesses. They will be taken care of before anyone knows anything. Get ready for mysterious disappearances, imprisonments, and action against the press and opposition. Autocrats lie except when they identify an enemy.
5
People continue to stress the need to vote in the election to end the banana republic crises we have with DJT, but in a banana republic the elections are usually fixed, so what are our honest media and politicians doing to make sure the elections are going to be fair?
14
Chants and demands to "lock her up" for those political opponents NOT charged with a crime and cries of injustice for cronies who have been charged AND convicted of crimes.
trump's version of "I am the State"
13
Because of the clear and unequivocal fact that Republicans in the House and the Senate have almost unconditionally decided to support Donald Trump regardless of his nefarious and illegal behavior, it is now time for the New York Times to understand that just about anything the Republicans in Congress will say is tinged with untruth at best. We are now living in a government of lies which is the way fascist regimes begin. If America cares about its democratic form of government we have to destroy the source of the lies and vote these Republican Senators, Congressman and ultimately Donald Trump out of office.
10
Trump's behavior in the Roger Stone affair has been, among other things, a test of congressional Republicans.
His attack on the Stone trial's foreperson is illegal, despicable, and an abuse of his presidential power.
Congressional Republicans have been essentially mute.
By injecting himself as president into Stone's sentencing process, Trump crossed another line of impropriety, which President Nixon was soundly criticized for when he commented on the Charles Manson case.
Congressional Republicans have said nothing.
All Republican House members and all Republican senators up for re-election in November deserve their walking papers by voters for dereliction of duty, by their silence they give Trump their approval and cowardly acquiescence, and reject the rule of laws and their constitutional duty.
America should show its contempt for them on Election Day.
12
Credico says he feels threatened.
Not by Stone himself but by crazies who support Stone.
Nowhere in the article do I see Credico recanting his testimony about the implied threat from Stone. About the witness tampering charge proven to a jury.
Nowhere do we see the trial of Stone called into question. We see a jury of Americans doing their job.
Jurors are selected in a well established process. I don't think they are asked their political leanings.
Trump can't imagine anyone being impartial or moral. His view of others is a projection of his own paranoia and immorality. A mobster view of the world.
12 jurors. You'd have to bet there were Trump voters on that jury.
Regular, decent Americans who take justice seriously.
Who do their job fairly.
7
Bravo, Ms. Goldberg.
I'm unpleasantly surprised that a former trial lawyer as smart as Barr thinks that his assertions that he didn't know how Trump felt about Stone's case would be believed. Even worse, it might be that Barr knows he won't be believed, but doesn't care.
7
These are strong words, but it’s only one article. The real intimidation comes from Trump’s allies Russia and Saudi Arabia, followed to a lesser degree from the other autocrats he has embraced around the world, and even the self-styled militias and home-grown terrorists in the US. The NY Times should elucidate just how extensive and powerful Trump’s fear-mongering campaign is before the 2020 election.
5
"For my friends, anything, for my enemies, the law" ...yet, I keep wondering about motive. To me the key to Trump's interference may be his offhand remark (and I paraphrase here) "What did he even do?". Trumps efforts to mess with this trial are similar to his efforts in Ukraine and everywhere - to wipe all stain from his illegitimate election. Deep down he's still NOT the President. He cheated to get the job. He feels it. He know it. He'd break this country into pieces to make that fact go away. As Solomon might judge: A true mother wouldn't allow her child to be slaughtered to get her half. I find it hard to believe he "cares" that much for Stone or anyone else. Friends? He doesn't have any friends.
6
@Florence
He doesn't care about Stone. He fears Stone and what Stone knows.
Please don't do not every write another piece about William Barr without stating the fact he is very dishonest. List some of his lies and remind everyone he is not ethical or honest.
You are giving the impression Barr is a decent person and maybe he is telling the truth when. Known facts like the following do not support starting out with the implicit presumption Barr is an honest decent person.
William Barr is a bad person now trying to smooth over the fact his master, Trump, is interfering in a criminal trial trying to influence the outcome.
William Barr is not ethical.
William Barr is dishonest.
William Barr intentionally tried to misstate the Robert Mueller report's conclusion.
William Barr lied to Congress on many occasions.
William Barr is not a good AG.
William Barr's legal opinion on presidential authority is not creditable.
8
Mr. Stone has, for nearly 50 years, shamelessly self-promoted himself as the great dirty trickster of the Republican Party. "Sleaze" is only the mildest of descriptions of Stone's reasons and methods to distort and defile our political system.
Throwing the book at him with maximum sentencing recommendations seems more than appropriate. Judge Jackson has her work cut out for her. Giving Stone 9 years in the slammer (or, will it be Club Fed?) will certainly get Trump's attention to the point of threatening to give Stone a Get Out of Jail Free card.
Trump is on his vengence tour with no end in sight. Will AG Barr get the ax for complaining about twitter-in-chief's interference? OR was it a well-hearsed cover story?
As nearly all of the comments herein suggest, our democracy is on the cusp of transmogrifying into an autocracy, something David Frum warned about in a cover story for The Atlantic (or. maybe it was Harper's).
Roger Stone has played a major role in where we are today by collaborating with the collaborators working with Putin. Let him cool his heels (trans: "rot") for at least a few years behind bars. Will he get the Scooter Libby catch-and-release treatment? Toss Stone in jail and let's go from there.
7
“'A republic, if you can keep it.' We haven’t kept it. The question now is whether we ever get it back."
Unfortunately, time is rapidly running out on our being able to get it back through the rule of law and the odds are against us. Will this Supreme Court slap Trump's excesses down, or roll over on them, as it has done so many of the cruel, draconian and international-law violating executive orders against refugees fleeing for their lives?
I can't even ask if there is ANYTHING this President can do that McConnell's Senate won't convict him for? After all, how could any person, whose father was accused of the worst crime of the century, participating in the assassination of JFK, in the face of compelling evidence STILL vote to acquit that accuser of his father?
Roger Stone had the power and money of capable and shrewd defense attorneys, yet still, 12 of his peers convicted him on every count. There was no "jury tampering" or bias. Manafort faced a similar jury and was acquitted on 10 of the 17 or 18 counts, by prosecutors from the same office as Stone's.
Then there's the attacks on Judge Jackson, who, after Manafort plead guilty in her court, gave him an almost surprisingly light sentence.
Roger Stone is an unrepentant convicted felon, as great a danger to our society as any murderer, who deserves to have at least the same sentence as Rosa Ortega.
We haven't reach the nadir, Michelle. There is no "bottom" to Trump's evil.
9
The way Trump tactically obfuscates narratives of fairness and justice, then positions himself for his base as the great restorer of fairness and justice, is reality TV at its best. Problem is half the country can see these bold-faced manipulations and half the country can't–and they consume Trump's latest "I am a victim of the DOJ" plot like he's spurned lover on The Bachelor. Barr, in on the shtick, complicates the story further by appearing to take umbrage with Trump's umbrage, though not to restore fairness and justice to a severely-damaged DOJ but to ensure his character's viability. Fox News gobbles up the cheap content and recycles it endlessly for the base while teasing the next episode. What a mess.
8
Barr's comments about the reason for questioning the sentencing of Stone could not have been more disingenuous. And while I support the work of honest journalists, that interview was like something one would see on FOX.
I don't understand why journalists don't confront these Trump officials and even Trump himself who again and again are caught in lies. I can see that they fear if they're too aggressive, it may be the last interview they ever get with that person. At this point, so what?
6
The justice system has always had one set of rules for the rich and another for the rest of America.
But the DOJ had laws, standards, morals and ideals that it always upheld.
Now they are just servants in the Trump empire.
3
What phony hoopla about Stone being an "old man" at 63, facing "what may well be a life sentence" of 9 years. Everyone knows he would likely end up doing at most half of that, and the prospect of this guy dying before he's at least 85 is wishful thinking. Most 63-year-old Americans can't afford to retire anytime soon, and cannot imagine threatening a witness or lying to congress or any of the other felonies Stone has been found guilty of. "Poor old guy" indeed.
10
It boggles my mind that people are defending this disgusting behavior. I think most people, including AG Barr, are suggesting that Roger Stone, Donald Trump’s best friend and mentor, receive prison time for the SEVEN crimes he was convicted of by a jury.
Stone was found guilty of five counts of lying to Congress, one of witness tampering and one of obstructing a congressional committee proceeding (he misled Congress about his communications with Trump campaign officials in 2016).
I don’t think the law says that attempts to intimidate witnesses are only illegal if we can ascertain that the witness truly felt threatened in their hearts. Stone told this man, a witness, to “prepare to die” and that he would kidnap his dog if he didn’t support Stone in court. That’s a crime, period, and if the US allows people to try to intimidate witnesses, that’s pretty much it for our judicial system.
6
RE: Ben Franklin:
Then;
"Our constitution was made only for a moral...people.
It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
- John Adams
compare to now:
"Anyone who quotes what I just said will be lying.."
- Newt Gingrich
5
Back when this country had the Rule of Law, a threat was considered to based upon the victim's viewpoint. Not so under the Dis-United States of Trump. Now it's viewed from the point of view of whether you're part of his tribe or the Others.
The Collapse is nearly complete. R.I.P. Democracy.
5
If Trump has accomplished anything at all during his tenure it is the sad fact that under his "stewardship" the US is sliding into fascism. When an elected leader starts to stick his fingers in the gears of the justice system it is a telling sign of this starting to happen. Trump , Barr , McConnell, Graham etc all have a large degree of responsibility. While many news organizations such as the NY Times are reporting all of this it does seem that perhaps many are not paying attention. We will know if this is so when election day rolls around. We can loose our representative democracy that is fidelity to the Constitution & not to one individual .
If we continue with Trump what is lost will not be regained.
3
This constitution is ready to go to the garbage bin.
This should not happen and have an iota of vagueness about it.
Are we a dictatorship? If the answer is no then Trump should be handcuffed..
Kurt Godel was right. In his citizenship interview he told the judge that the American constitution could logically lead to a dictatorship. Boy, was he right. May he Rest In Peace.
6
I wonder what good old Dershowitz says now?
3
I regard Roger Stone as Trump's mascot. All he needs at this point is to wear a collar and a leash studded in Diamonds that spell out "Donald Trump", and he probably already has one.
5
Credico is a joke. And you fell for his punch line.
1
Michelle,
For me, I want to see Justice (and justice) get Stone more than any other Trumpster other than the big man himself. His arrogant, smug, you-can't-do-anything-to-me, self confidence in interviews was infuriating.
Thanks to your story, I know where Credico is coming from in wanting leniency for Stone - our prisons have become cruel torture pits - but I'd make an exception for granting leniency in two cases.
3
Today, Bobby Barr ranted the President in making his job so much harder with his Twitter posting. This is as much a fraud as our "Chosen One". This is a JOKE, Big Time. Barr has traded his soul for fools gold*
He is now Trump very own Roy Cohn. [Search domain www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/06/donald-trump-roy-cohn-relationship] https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/06/donald-trump-roy-cohn-relationship
3
So, a victim impact statement gets turned inside out and twisted to seem as if it is an exoneration of the perpetrator! Just so happens that the beneficiary of the crime was displeased with the proposed sentence and said so using his very large megaphone. Then the AG butts in and changes the recommendations of those entrusted with prosecuting the criminal. They quit out of a sense of integrity & with the knowledge that they are never going to be allowed to make lasting decisions without interference from above. A kerfuffle ensues in public. The AG realizes that he looks like a tool to the public at large, even though he has always been seen as a tool. Then decides it’s time to buck. Why does it seem that the AG’s public disagreement with POTUS is contrived? Oh, yeah, because the invertebrate AG has been the main culprit with his attempt to coverup every unfavorable report and to confer a Kingship on the very stable genius in the White House. No one believes the sincerity of the enthralled. Imagine that!
4
Did anyone miss this news...
https://nypost.com/2020/01/15/entire-russian-government-quits-after-putin-calls-for-constitutional-shake-up/
Entire Russian government quits after Putin calls for constitutional shake-up.
I don't see any headlines.
If Russians are fighting against Putin, where is our Government.
1
Republicans, under trump and Barr, have refined “just us”. Just us can get away with bribery, just us can fix elections, just use can conspire with foreign intelligence, just us can lie with impunity. Now them evil, disgusting, contemptible Democrats.......I have the absolute right to have no confidence in the federal justice system.
3
Which does not belong:
A. Yes-men
B. Fixers
C.Fall guys
D Felons
E. U.S. Republican Senators
F. All of these belong
Correct answer is F.
4
It's bad enough that Trump is trying to weaponize the Justice Department to do his dirty work. At least the Justice Department is part of the Executive Branch. But now he is actually directly interfering in a trial by attacking the judge and the jury forewoman. This is a jaw-droppingly offensive misuse of his authority. Trump seems to be begging to be impeached again.
9
@John: Yes, he is. But this time the Congress will have to establish to the Supreme Court that it has authority to collect evidence to support impeachments.
2
Trump and Barr: the Bialystock and Bloom of government.
3
The media still pretends that Trump is our president despite the clear evidence that he was squeezed into office by a corrupted Electoral College vote assisted by Russian intervention.
Barr, McConnell, John Roberts all support this fraudulent Trump administration so that the extreme right can stay in power. Big Lie Propaganda about Roger Stone's "innocence" is a small part of the story.
The real story is that our system of government has collapsed and that our claim to be a democracy is a sham.
11
@Jefflz
You are spot on
2
I don’t see how promulgating this sort of nonsense helps a single blessed thing; if anything, it’s exactly the kid of crackpottery we get from this president (lower case intentional) pretty much every day.
1
@Jefflz: It would be a historic opportunity to update public consciousness, if only the public were better able to distinguish signal from noise.
1
“The guy goes to prison and I’m to blame, and you’re being called a rat, you’re worried about somebody with a red hat, a MAGA hat, doing a Jack Ruby on you,” said Randy Credico the witness from Robert Mueller’s investigation.
See this for what it is... Homeland Political Terrorism promoted (and seemly approved) by the President. Unless it is checked by DOJ the national implementation is dangerous.
His fear has national im
7
Barr is basically winking to Trump and saying, "dude I got your back, stop tweeting because it makes it too obvious."
Question: Did Stone's and Manfort's lies and stonewalling prevent Mueller from finding sufficient evidence to site Trump for violation of Federal conspiracy statutes. Mueller ended his investigation as soon as Stone refused to sing.
6
Barr vs. Trump... fake fight.
9
Stone was convicted for lying to Congress and witness tampering. That sounds like technical stuff, but the thing he lied about is huge: He conspired with wikileaks’ leaking of Clinton campaign emails hacked by Russia. He reported regularly on this to Trump.
The stone trial occurred after the Mueller report was wrapped up (prematurely by Barr). Mueller was too straight arrow to indicate in either his report or testimony that a pending matter might prove Trump “collusion.”
In any event, the next day Trump colluded with Ukraine on the 2020 election..
11
@MikeG: The actual material hacked was prosaic political chit-chat without any criminal intents.
This belongs on the InfoWars website.
When Barrack Obama tweeted about Trayvon Martin before the trial was that wrong?
Trump tweeted after the trial.
@Steve Bolger
I see. So when one tries to rob a bank with no money in it, there's no crime?
4
Barr didn't say Trump's tweets make it impossible for the DOJ and its dedicated staff to do their jobs. He said the tweets made it impossible for him to do his job - namely, to apply smooth, creamy custard to all the tendrils of Trump's legal weeds, and to do it in the dark, without the President shoving it in everyone's face.
11
@Diego: Barr came out of retirement to save Evangelical bacon from Trump.
1
More than his effort at trying to influence the AG on a criminal case, I find disgusting that the President of the US called out a single juror on a criminal trial, to bully her, to demean her, to call her out in her own community so his local MAGA supporters would know her by name and who she is. Was his goal to have them confront her at her front door? At the grocery store? At her kid’s school?
Jury duty is a compulsory service; you’re required by law to show up. You sit in a room, for days or weeks, listening to complicated evidence, trying to sort through fact and fiction. You’re not allowed to discuss it with anyone. Depending on the case, you might be sequestered, meaning you are separated from your spouse, kids, friends, etc. throughout the course of the trial. If the verdict is guilty, it means eleven others arrived at the same conclusion as your own.
For the President to call out this juror is stunning. Every one of your neighbors, others parents at your kid’s school, your own children, realize that you have just been targeted by the President of the United States for nothing more than fulfilling your civic duty. I don’t know that I ever appreciated or fully understood the concept of McCarthysim in the 50’s until now; that Republicans are afraid to call out this behavior demonstrates what a genuinely fearful time we are living in.
21
There must be an apt Mark Twain quote about how someone who throws away their reputation and loses their "good" name can never get it back - one perfectly made to apply to Barr. He's become such a disgrace.
My first reaction to how Republicans were spinning Randy Credico's letter, was how much money was Randy promised to offer up this letter and engage in this nonsense?
Anyway, there's a lot in common between the claim there were no threats by Stone (really?) and the claim that Trump never pressured Ukraine, supposedly with proof since Zelensky said he didn't feel pressured (ignore that "gun" pointed at him and his country, really?). Give me a break - really!
5
There are no “rules or justice” in USA right now. There is Trump’s Junta. Democratic institutions are gone – kaput. .. And it’s going to get worse until – hopefully Trump is defeated in 2020 elections.
And that’s a big if.
9
"There is now one set of laws in this country for people who serve Trump, and another for everyone else." Like Mr. McConnell, Mr. Trump is drunk with power. Time to 86 both of them.
9
We have, literally, millions of minorities in prison over petty crimes. It helps support the for-profit companies that have been gifted the management of prisons. For too long white men have been given a pass after being convicted of felonies. Seven (count them). Giving this despicable man a pass sends a very bad message. Give him ten years and be sure to publicize his incarceration on a regular basis as a civics lesson.
5
All we can do with this nightmare of a Presidency and corrupt GOP is hold our noses and hope that the next election throws them both out if we're not radioactive dust before then. Once out of office there will be no self-pardoning threats and Trump and his mob family can spend the rest of their lives in court and/or jail.
5
Trump's love affair with Barr like so many of his administrative infatuations might soon come to an end and Rudy Giuliani is right there, waiting in the wings, to replace Barr. Who's to stop him?
4
Trump has been dazzled by mobsters since the 1960s. His fascination is likely how he hooked himself in with the bent-nose boys from Brighton Beach and all their money and all their menace. The problem is that with all his fascination he never managed to absorb the fact that as a wannabe he has not earned respect to go along with fear. His self-delusion brings him the belief that his cruel threats are somehow for the greater good (of himself of course, not society or country) rather than simply being the natural cruelty of a weakling. Those who attach themselves to him do so because, for the briefest of moments, he has some power. They will leave him just as quickly when he no longer has it. Delusional and infirm as he obviously is, he is beginning to catch on to the likely outcome of what he is doing and his mania and cruelty will increase in an inevitably failed effort to stave off collapse. He is on a path to his own destruction now - only failures and fools are willing to accompany him on it.
6
"He is on a path to his own destruction now - only failures and fools are willing to accompany him on it."
When has there ever been a shortage of those?
I hope you're right about his destruction, but I fear this is just wishful thinking. I see no end to his reign, apart from the end that eventually comes to us all.
3
"Trump tweeted an attack on the jury forewoman in the Stone case, singling out a private citizen for abuse because she’d dared to find one of his henchman guilty."
No, that's completely disingenuous. It was because reports are that this woman is a lefty who wrote many inappropriate tweets which should have disqualified her from serving on the jury.
The source of these reports is Fox, so for now I take them with a large grain of salt. But if they turn out to be true, a retrial will be in order. As someone who thinks Stone is about as low as they come, it pains me to say this. But justice is justice.
@Sixofone -
Its up to the attorneys for the defense to challenge a juror. Stone's attorneys did not do so. This was a criminal trial. Having a political opinion does not make one automatically unqualified. Defense counsel can use peremptory challenges (get the juror off without need to justify it). Such are limited to a finite number under the law. There are also challenges "for cause" which counsel must justify to the court. All of this is governed by court rules and law.
And none of the above is new. Its founded in hundreds of years of Anglo-American jurisprudence. You, and Trump, simply don't like the outcome of a case where a rich white politically connected man with
outstanding counsel was convicted.
6
Randy Credico, the witness Stone threatened, says he never felt physically threatened. He sent a letter to Judge Jackson imploring her not to send Roger Stone to prison. He wrote ”I understand that Roger Stone has broken federal laws, but a prison sentence is beyond what is required in this case. It is not justice. It is cruelty.”
https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/479613-prosecution-witness-asks-judge-not-to-send-roger-stone-to-prison
@William Case
Irrelevant. Threats are judged objectively, based on what "a reasonable person" would think of them. Case law helps narrow this down. It is not done based on the objective interpretation of the alleged victim of the threat.
This is for good reason. Someone who has been threatened may very well decide not to say so. Because they were threatened.
Our society should not tolerate threats.
Don't practice law without a license.
5
@Jerseytime
I am not practicing law. I simply quoted Randy Credico. When Stone told Credico “Prepared to die,” he did not take the threat seriously. Remember, the two were long-time friends. The mystery is what Stone lied about his attempt to get insider information from WikiLeaks. That was not illegal. Stone could have called up Julian Assange to inquire about WikiLeaks publication plans without breaking any laws/
The attorney general thought the initial sentencing recommendation were too severe, considering the circumstances, and so he order the recommendation withdrawn. The attorney general does have a law degree.
@William Case
Yes he does. Too bad he's using it to lighten the sentence of a Trump ally.
Please don't argue that its from some sense of injustice. Stone was not unjustly convicted and
the threat is but one of many charges he was convicted of. How do you feel about his threatening the judge?
4
Barr wants to keep these misdeeds under the radar, but Trump wants to brag about them. When are all the Patsies going to wake up?
4
If you threaten someone and they say they were threatened, you aren’t doing it right. Just ask the president of Ukraine after Trump goes away.
2
@Hugh Crawford
this is why threats are judged by an objective standard under the law.
2
I saw a statistic some time ago about the number of Republicans convicted of felonies related to their service in the government. 152, including Nixon, I believe was the number.
The corresponding number for Democrats was 5 or 6.
4
@HT
Unfortunately, Trumpists will use that statistic as proof that the entire system is "rigged" against rich, white, conservative males.
3
The marching in the streets will come when it is too late to march, when the reality of what we’ve become is believed. By then many of us will be too scared to march and many will leave. Vote
7
We, meaning Americans who believe in the Constitution and the rule of law, should be taking to the street by the millions to protest the egregious behavior of the current administration. All we have to do is follow the lead of Hong Kong and India, but will we? No, most likely not, as we have not awakened to the reality that we are rapidly heading to a totalitarian state.
5
Of course it was PR.. if he’d actually meant it he’d be just another 3rd rate gutter lawyer who was fortunate to have been saved by the beneficence of trump.
2
Roger Stone and many in the White house are worshippers of naked power. The law is something to skirt when their goals are threatened. Stone is a corrupt Nixon groupie! It is small wonder he found a new star in Trump. Barr is another of this type. They believe that the leader must be imbued with absolute power and be obeyed. This hyper focus on blind allegiance is dangerous. No one should be above the law, an election is not a religious anointing. It reduces the power of the President to the laughable. Rule #1, the boss is always right. Rule #2, When the boss is wrong, see Rule #1. You can find this directive in countless NYC pizza shops any day of the week!
4
Thanks for telling the truth, "you have a Republic if you can keep it" and we have not kept it. In fact we, through our elected Representatives, the Republican Senators and Republican Representatives are in the process of giving it away to a low life con man whose cruelty and bullying appeals to the lowest common denominator in his followers who he, routinely, in his rallies and notorious tweets, stirs up to demand blood...lock her up chants and worse, laughing at people with disabilities and attacking physically those who think differently. This experiment in rule by the people will end badly if he is not stopped, and stopped soon. I give you this link from Business Week:
https://www.businessinsider.com/authoritarianism-experts-say-time-running-out-americans-to-stop-trump-2020-2?op=1
Be sure to listen to the historian Tim Snyder at the end of the printed matter.
3
Isn't all this lying just par for the course these days?
Sadly this is where we're at, the rule of law and our republic hanging by a thread.
Vote Blue No Matter Who!
6
Who writes this stuff? Stone is goofball nobody who has made his name by his odd antics. The only reason he was prosecuted was to get at the President. These political prosecutions are shameful and a dark stain on the DOJ and our system of justice.
3
@Chris
Prove that the prosecutions were not justified. Please use law and facts.
8
If the system were fair we would see a Clinton in jail for the destruction of evidence. Clapper and Brennan for lying under oath. But somehow these indiscretions are missed by the view from the left. You might even follow those up with FBI officials who lied to acquire and illegal warrant. You know all that stuff you refuse to acknowledge.
1
@History
Blatant whataboutism. Clinton was never prosecuted for perjury. So, how does one put him in jail?
As for the others, I'll stack their reputation for veracity against Trump's or Stone's any day.
6
Please stop calling these liars 'the Right'.
It is meaningless language that simply serves to obscure just how wrong they are.
3
This piece makes absolutely no logical sense. It purports to suggest that Credico felt genuinely threatened by Stone's original threats. But it then goes no to say that Credico didn't - but that he feels threatened now by unnamed others should Stone go to prison for a long period of time. Somehow Stone is responsible for how Credico feels about Stone's sentence? You really need to think through what you write before you publish it.
2
@Froat
In any event, its irrelevant. Threats are judged objectively, not by the subjective reaction of the alleged target.
2
I’d rather have Don Corleone and Tom Hagen at the controls.
2
Only Trump with the aid of the conservative propaganda machine could turn Stone, a man who's proud of his lying and his dirty tricks, into a hero.
6
“…There is now one set of laws in this country for people who serve Trump, and another for everyone else…
Actually three, Michelle…
How about the ones in NYC that say beating a bus fare, taking a dump on the subway stairs, gluing some turnstiles shut, or shooting up across the street from a charter school is OK…
Or is it your opinion that de Blasio is simply the best person ever, to be NYC’s mayor…
2
An old Mafia trick - the guy being extorted, threatened, is directed to tell authorities he/she is not being extorted or threatened or else. See, you have no case. The guy himself said he was not threatened. So Mafia - GOP. Same tactics.
5
Note to Credito, though a bit late I'm afraid: "Silence is better for the wise, and how much more so for fools."
From the information espoused here, Credico was not afraid of Stone or that Stone will hire a killer, but of some potential Stones supporters of large, furious at the unfair jail sentence. In this case, it is not Stones fault, he cannot and should not be charged based on what some people who like him would do, potentially.
2
Yes, the Republic has been lost. We know everything we need to know. Now as others are asking, so what do we do now? The elections are not the sole response. We need acts of civil disobedience and mass protests. Where are the Indivisibles? Act Blue? ACLU? We must join the courage resisters who are resigning or being fired or threatened with violence for speaking truth to power. They need our visible support and protection.
3
@John Marksbury
I keep asking the same questions. We are on the cusp of such actions, which must attract hundreds of thousands (like Hong Kong) in order to not be ignored.
I'm ready, but have seen nothing planned..........as of yet.
4
The efforts of Trump and his allies to used Credico’s general outlook on the horrors of prisons for the specific benefit of Stone (and, by extension, Trump) reveals their fundamentally flawed view of how law and the wielding of official power is supposed to operate in this country.
Roger Stone is not merely involved in some personal argument with Credico. The conflict (as far as law is concerned) is between Stone and these United States. His obstructions of justice, lying before Congress, witness tampering and multiple instances of contempt for all the relevant proceedings is the issue at hand. If Credico hated Stone with every fiber of his being and wanted him executed, it would not move the needle. The same is true of his abolitionist instincts.
It is also a miscarriage of justice to make personal relationships with policy-makers a factor in criminal proceedings. The common theme in Trump’s musings about pardons and lenient sentences is that he has a PERSONAL stake in the cases upon which he is commenting. Manafort, Stone, Flynn, etc. were each his “loyal” servants and his dangling of pardons and suggested interventions on their behalf is a corrupt payment for the corrupt services they rendered to him. Note that Trump is not inclined to help his ex-lawyer Cohen and routinely asks for investigations and harsh punishments for his personal enemies. He abuses his power with corrupt intent and has long since bullied Barr into doing the same.
5
What ever happened with the Trumps' long time accountant? The various state fraud (banking, insurance, tax, real estate) investigations? Are these things being dragged out so long that we sheep just forget and move on?
8
@Hector: Trump fights every subpoena all the way to the Supreme Court.
4
Trump should keep tweeting about Barr's machinations (although not threatening people). At least it keeps the public informed. It would be preferable if Trump fired him, but that seems unlikely.
3
Was it for this the fields of the flowers of youth
were mowed down storming those beaches,
so that the inheritors we might be
of the defeated tyrant’s ideology?
If we put up with the autocrat
I’ll know for sure of the electorate
what was recently proven of the Senate—
a nation no longer worthy of its founding documents
9
@Patriots Impeach, Cowards Acquit: The US is still mired in the features of its foundation left over from slavery.
"Stone was convicted of obstruction, making false statements and witness tampering, all stemming from Robert Mueller’s special counsel investigation"
He was the channel from Trump to Wikileaks to Russian intelligence hackers damaging his political opponent. That is the crime, it seems to me, though maybe that was never proved by prosecutors because of the obstruction.
The original sentence seems quite reasonable to me considering the consequences of the crime being covered up.
The entirety of the Trump campaign crimes would make a RICO case in any world where our justice system was functioning properly.
14
@Look Ahead: Some entity seems to have electrodes planted in the brains of Republican senators. A more shortsighted collection of fools doesn't just happen.
Whatever the Republicans think, whatever the Democrats think is imaterial in Roger Stone's case.
As I understand it, in this country when a Jury has found someone guilty in a crime, the guilty verdict is final. Unless the trial Judge reverses it, due to unusual factors that don't meet the standards of law.
9
@Walt Sisikin
Oh no. Just look at the many Trumpist posts on this thread. They are absolutely convinced that a rich, white,
politically connected man with well paid counsel was railroaded.
4
And the left’s HUGE cover up about bias in the Roger Stone trial
@Nycdweller
I weep for the wasted keystrokes.
3
@Nycdweller
Counselor- Please provide your reasoned argument, relying on the facts and law, that proves that the verdict must be overturned.
Did you know that Stone's attorneys knew the Forewoman had run for office as a Dem? Do you know they could have challenged her, but did not?
6
You Democrats need to dream up some new hoax. Yea, I know, Russiagate didn't work, Ukrainegate didn't work, Mueller was an embarrassment. No bribery, no obstruction, no nothing. So sad for you. But hey, you have Bernie! HaHa.
2
Yes, Conservatives are out in minions on social media (even here) spreading their lies and misinformation about Roger Stone. I recommend, people watch the documentary, “Get Me Roger Stone.” Stone is a long time GOP goon.
“Once truth had become oracular rather than factual, evidence was irrelevant” ~ Timothy Snyder, author of “On Tyranny”
10
We should not believe a single word that Roger Stone says.
Stone has been doing Republican dirty tricks since 1972!
He was introduced to Donald Trump in 1980 by Roy Cohn.
Around the same time, Stone and his college friend Paul Manafort started a DC lobbying firm.
You can read the whole sordid story here:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/11/roger-stones-long-history-in-trump-world/581293/
9
The corruption, filth, and sleaze of this administration and all of it's associates (including the senate) literally are making me physically ill.
Watching the democratic circular firing squad doesn't help.
I don't believe that there has ever been a more important election in our country's history. I believe that another 4 years of this sociopath buffoon will truly be the end of this country.
13
"after the president’s intervention to get Stone a lighter sentence convulsed the Justice Department" - please can we write more accurately. you have no proof he intervened. if you do present it. otherwise stick to some facts.
here's another fact why hasn't the NYT written about the Stone jury foreperson, Tomeka Hart. Her hatred for Trump and anything to do with Trump definitely should have kept her off the jury.
Please do some reporting NYT.
3
Roger Stone the fixer for Pres. Donald Trump's been his buddy probably over 50 years doing and crimes yes you cannot intimidate witnesses you cannot intimidate the judge with crosshairs like you shooter to me this is absurd that AG William Barr does the bidding of President Donald Trump. Why did the 4 prosecutors leave because of the misbehavior of the Justice Department from William Barr I salute those for doing their job Roger Stone deserves 20 years behind bars. If you threaten the judge how much time do you think other people would get the just throw away the keys.
We have double standards in the social ones that could and ones that cannot that's middle-class Joe blow and the poor. This sentence would be life in prison with no parole.
Credico he's an idiot think such a thing Roger Stone broke the law you can paint a pig and put lipstick on it but doesn't change the matter. He stole the emails from Hillary Clinton with this criminal. Just like in break-in that Pres. Nixon got impeach.
November 3, 2020, will be marked the day of history that all Americans should stand up for our democracy it's being challenged by Pres. Donald Trump.
1
Nixon never dragged things this low. Nor did Ed Meese. Yet here we are with a GOP that continues to whistle past its own graveyard. Are they all that stupid? Never mind; the question answers itself.
13
You made one error in the column. This isn't close to Trump's "nadir," it is just another typical day in Trumpworld.
9
Just another beautiful day in Rube-istan.
Be careful what you say,
Be careful what you see.
Be careful what you think.
Have a nice day!
4
‘ “A republic, if you can keep it.” We haven’t kept it. The question now is whether we ever get it back.’
...quelle drama queen...
4
Stone will be pardoned by Trump whether he gets 10 days of 10 years. His use of the pardon powers granted to a President are abusive of the pardon privilege? If there is no penalty for law breaking, then why obey the law? Trump understands this concept very well. He is practiced at it, lying his way throughout his life while never paying the consequences for his ill gotten gains. The biggest gain of all, the Presidency, was obtained with help from the Russians, not exactly considered a legitimate player in American politics. Now those who aided in this calamity and are facing the penalty for doing so, are about to be let off the hook.
What a country!!
5
If a member of M13 were on trial and another member of the gang publicly accused a specific juror of bias, would this not be a crime? Is the president exempt? Does the US Justice system have no way to protect jurors from intimidation by powerful persons?
7
Don't try to duck the issue by blaming the original prosecutors' excessively harsh proposed penalties on the sentencing guidelines.
What is rapidly becoming apparent is that the prosecutors went rogue. I gather that they had already threatened to withdraw from the case if they didn't get their way when their recommendation had earlier been challenged by career officials at Justice.
Reports also say that the decision to reverse the proposed sentence was arrived at before Trump's intervention.
It seems that no matter what the facts are, the media routinely fold, spindle and mutilate them to cram them into the official narrative. It's getting old.
3
@Ian Maitland
How did they go "rogue"? In what way did they violate their oaths and the law?
And is the Judge in on it too?
Conclusory remarks without support are worthless when one attacks a public trial
6
@Jerseytime
I didn't say they violated their oaths or the law. But even Goldberg's op ed implies that the recommended sentence was too harsh. Was that a misjudgment, an excess of zeal, a lack of professionalism, or something else -- those are the questions that remain to be answered.
@Ian Maitland
Now that you've clarified, it would appear that they did not "go rogue" in the popular meaning of that phrase.
As far as Goldberg is concerned, I didn't get that
'implication" at all.
3
Trump is not only threatening but retaliating against witnesses who testified against him. This is a crime, but seems to be fine with congressional Republicans.
5
Michelle,
Our only chance at keeping our republic at this point is if excellent journalists like yourself keep writing columns like these. The free press is our last and only hope...
9
Roger Stone is a self proclaimed “Dirty Trickster” as well as an attention seeking provocateur. Therefore, he is a perfect surrogate of Trump because they both practice “Shock Jock” politics.
But let’s not forget that Stone is also a convicted felon according to the US Jurisprudence. The “Right Wing” viciousness against Mr. Credico is absolutely deplorable but it doesn’t surprise me because Trump frequently tweets against the verdict in the Roger Stone case. The fish rots from the head so to speak.
Furthermore, during the recently concluded impeachment trial, Sen. Rand Paul disclosed the name of the “Whistle-blower” in a press conference immediately after Chief Justice Roberts expressly forbade him to do so in the Senate. Such total display of disrespect and disregard to the Chief Justice of SCOTUS, by a member of the Senate is absolutely disgraceful.
GOP is literally acting in total defiance against our legal system and democracy. Politics is becoming increasingly PRIMAL. Under the GOP leadership, our democracy is devolving into a dysfunctional dystopia.
8
The extreme right wing see what direction the country wants to go and will stop that at all cost stack the courts break the laws nothing matters they must win for total control and there you have it. Make no mistake this is war with out bullet.
3
Between the arcane electoral college where the loser wins and your vote is meaningless, and the legalization of bribery of politicians called “campaign contributions” our political system is a farce. Even without Trump and his cohorts, we’ve evolved into little more than a shadow of a real Republic or a real Democracy
2
@Thomas
In parliamentary systems, the concerns that you raise are taken care of by coalition governments in which minority parties (geographically or otherwise) are included and have a say in the administration/government. However, we are a one man one vote Republic with a convoluted patch work in which a certain minority of voters (rural in your example) count more-much more-than the majority of voters. Call it what you may, but it’s neither democratic nor fair. Btw, one man one vote seems to work just fine in the French Republic.
1
To the author's great credit, this is the single, most depressing piece I have read about the Trump phenomenon over the past few years.
We are all going down and going down hard.
4
Stone’s likely pardon is perhaps not the sort of thing that makes any of us proud of our country, but it seems a stretch to argue that in terms of political corruption this Trump era represents a new low, or even a strikingly unusual era in our nation’s history. Such corruption & thuggishness have always been part of a game which has always been a very long way from beanbag. I’m no historian, but I’d hazard a guess that Trump’s government is probably less corrupt & thuggish than most pre-Watergate American administrations & it doesn’t look to me to be more corrupt & thuggish than the Clintons. The Republic therefore seems likely to be okay.
1
Roger Stone is not someone's goofy uncle or sleepy grandfather. He is sly conman who has his fingers in a lot of slippery deals. When he offers a deal 'that you can't refuse' it's not something from a movie; It's an unmistakable threat.
His current show of arrogance comes from his relationship with an ethics-challenged-impeached-president and an equally challenged attorney general which is playing out in the media.
The only take aways I can see in all of this is:
1. The unequal judicial standards for the 'connected' and everyone else.
2. The danger to the country from a president who 'tweets' his thoughts with no care or concern for facts, no obvious self awareness of why he was impeached, and no adult supervision to remind him that he is not a king.
3. The blind self interests of his congressional enablers who acquitted an obviously guilty man so that he could continue the embarrassment which is the trump administration.
6
Ms. Goldberg's headline including the word "They're wrong." reminds me of my sixth grade science teacher, Mr. Philips. I have no memory of what I actually learned about science in that class but everyone who passed through his class learned life lessons about civility and arrogance.
My first day in class Mr. Philips asked us a question and one of my classmates provided an answer to which I yelled out "He's wrong". Mr. Philips replied, "Wrong? That word implies that there is no possibility, sir, that you may be incorrect and that is arrogance, and arrogance has no place in my class room." With the expertise of a Chinese Acupuncturist, Mr. Philips gave me a "nuggie" right into the left temporal lobe. I wish I could say that was the only nuggie I received, but all of us learned to address our classmates with more of a sense of being humble and civil. A lesson I try and carry to this day (about to turn 66).
2
Commenters asking “why we’re not marching in the streets,” to protest the criminal enterprise currently occupying the WH : it’s because of comments sections! The internet has hijacked America’s right to assembly - we no longer need to leave our armchairs or take off work to express ourselves.
That’s the best possible news for the GOP as it makes its desperate, final grab for the spoils before they take the country down completely, as posting opinions online has absolutely no effect on anything. It’s a meaningless pastime that falsely comforts posters, relieving them of the need to express themselves meaningfully, physically, as in marching on the White House and Congress by the hundreds of thousands, or millions. Until that happens, McConnell et al are happy to tolerate the slings and arrows all of us clever, outraged posters throw their way. It allows them to continue to do exactly what benefits them at our and the planet’s expense.
Perfect storm.
5
@James
Good points. But I'm not convinced. The women's march and the gun control marches got people out.
But I've yet to see anyone organizing the necessary huge marches needed to get the impact needed. I'm not a member of any activist groups, but if the call came, my son and I would be there.
2
@Jerseytime
Thanks, but our online conversation exemplifies my point - we’re not having it in front of the WH with a million others; we’re not even making the call to march. We’re waiting for the call that never comes.
The one-off marches you cited were great, but were easily tolerated by the GOP, as anti-Iraq war marches were by Bush & Co. As Bolivia and Hong Kong have proved, it requires sustained, relentless presence in the streets, in government offices, in the face of police opposition, to effect actual change.
Americans, it seems, aren’t up for that challenge and haven’t been since Vietnam. Lucky GOP.
2
If it's true that Stone made up a story about Credico being his back channel to the hacking organization then Stone is not just lying, he's misdirecting and setting up someone for possible criminal penalties who is innocent. Stone is obviously another Trump lackey who thinks he is justified in just making stuff up to protect his Dear Leader. It seems to me that Justice was totally justified in recommending the established sentencing guidelines for someone who not only did not cooperate, but actively tried to mislead the investigators. It doesn't matter if Barr intervened before or after Trump's tweet, the fact that he intervened at all is the tell.
4
Stone is a chip ff of the old block, his friend Donald Trump who has threatened many people opposed to him whether openly or with innuendo. And many take those threats very seriously due to Trumps viciousness and long memory, a man who treats the rule of law like it does not apply to him. So, yes, Credico was wise to take Stone's threats seriously. his mistake was to apologize at all.
3
And GOP senators slink deeper under their desks and hope not to be asked to defend Stone's misdeeds, his sentence, the president's tweets, our democracy.
3
So, this lowlife is convicted of 7-Seven felonies and 7-9 years is too harsh. trump how many convictions and how years would you suggest for 7 felonies??
5
@George
Well, one must use the "white collar white guy" formula.
First, one must determine what a young poor black man would get for a conviction on 7 felonies. Then, divide
by 4. With the accused sent to one of those low security places where they play tennis.
The bottom line is the sentence for Stone was way out of line. Contrast the outrage over this with US District Judge Leo T. Sorokin overturning the jury determined conviction of Mayor Walsh aids Ken Brissette and Tim Sullivan for extorting union jobs from organizers of the Boston Calling music festival. Not a peep. No politics involved in that!
3
How is it “out of line”? It falls within the federal sentencing guidelines. Perhaps these need to be revised, but when Obama was President and his DOJ recommended sentences lower than the guidelines, Republicans complained. Then, once in office, it was the Trump DOJ that reverted to strictly following the guidelines as the Bush administration had done.
It seems to have only become a problem when one of Trump’s allies got caught.
5
@William Reber
She doesn't know. She has never read any sentencing guidelines, and likely has no clear idea of the elements of Stone's crimes or the crimes of Brissette and Sullivan.
She seems to have missed her own point that in the other case it was a JUDGE that lowered the sentences (likely after Motions and argument). Not the AG or President.
2
Is this what is meant by "shock and awe?" I don't know about any of you out there, but I am truly horrified by what our country has become under the Trump regime.
Our country is made of tough metal. However, if you bend it and try to straighten it back out, there will always be a wrinkle where it was bent. It will always be weakest at that point. They only way to really correct that bend and the weak point is to melt that metal down and reform it. Is this where we are now?
As a country built on ideals which have never been fully realized, maybe this will be the time to create the resolve to fulfill its promise: where all people are created equally "with Liberty and Justice for all."
6
Trump's allies seem to feel that as long as they are raking in lots of money, there is no wrong that Trump and his administrators can do. Therefore, the law as a concept has no value. Donald Trump can decide the fate of any American (Heck, any citizen of the world, for that matter), and that is that! We have seen laws subverted. We have witnessed citizens harassed without recourse in the courts. Trump has ordered foreign leaders assassinated. He has summarily fired government employees for no legal reason. It is all in the mind and whim of Trump, and if you don't like it, you are just another part of the problem. America is no longer the land of freedom and justice. It is the land of tweet, and twit Trump.
6
I'm sorry to say, editors, that Ms Goldberg is so rabidly anti-Trump, that any "opinion" she might have about matters of law is not something most reasonable people would care to read. Stone did or did not threaten the guy. Her opinion about it, with the conclusion that Trump's supporters are "wrong" counts for little. You're wasting valuable home page space putting this headline at the top.
3
Trump tweeted an attack on the jury forewoman in the Stone case. In what world is this OK? He has put her and her family now at risk. Why is this not the story ?
7
Barr's press conference was obviously a sham, given the ridiculous White House announcement supporting Barr. How often do you see Trump support a cabinet member who trashes Trump's interference? That Barr can sit down and slam Trump without giggling shows that he is an amazing actor with no conscience. Barr should get the next Academy Award, for pretending to be Attorney General.
4
Can you imagine if Obama intervened in the courts on behalf of his friends? Republicans would've screamed bloody murder. But then, I guess Republicans are entitled to their double standards, aren't they?
Must be nice.
5
I read this article this morning as I woke up. The sense of loss that I felt afterward made me want to stay in bed and weep for the state of our country. How quickly an unhinged and unbridled president is bringing this nation to its knees.
2
Stone, Barr and Trump would be the 3 Stooges IF what they are destroying was not so serious. The very Foundation of the Republic is being cut away. It is as though we have fallen into a group of banana republics and Trump's loyal followers are cheering the demise as if they are somehow winning. I never thought I would be alive to see the USA in shambles but it is happening before my eyes and No seems to have the ability to stop it except those who are causing it. AMERICA WAKE UP!!!
God save the Republic!
3
Trump will pardon Stone.
End of story.
3
the "president" threatening a jury member is yet another High Crime / Misdemeanor
If I did the same thing I would be in front of the judge in no time.
6
Thank you, Michelle Goldberg, for going there.
Trump supporters - and by extension supporters of Stone, Flynn, Manafort and the other henchfolk - act very much like a trained attack dog. They crave being scratched behind the ear, but will rip into anyone who challenges their master.
The idea that a jury foreperson and a judge can be the recipients of Trump Twitter ire smacks of criminal intimidation. Youth across the country are being arrested for juvenile threats, but Trump and his vile buffoons get a special good boy treat.
3
He tells Trump to lay off, and then praises him to the skies. OK...
1
"[C]an we get our republic back?"
Not as long as there are any GOP in the Senate, House and courts.
Boot them all: impeach, investigate an if warranted try and vote out of office.
2
Sorry but I can't feel sorry for Credico. According to this article he feels threatened by what might happen to him at the hands of Trump followers based on Stone's dislike of him in getting him convicted. If so Credico should come forward in a public way and tell everyone that he did and still does feel threatened by Stone whose followers could exact punishment on him. He needs to do this to discredit Barr and other Trump allies statements that Credico didn't feel harmed by Stone's threats so no harm no foul. That's the least he should do for the 4 federal prosecutors.
1
All roads lead to Putin.
7
I wish the Democrats, the NYT, and their writers were as enraged about the two police officers in New York who were shot last week as they are about Roger Stone's sentencing.
AOC, DeBlasio, and Cuomo are more interested in abolishing bail than they are about people who shoot police officers.
2
A whole column without an attack on Bernie?!?
2
Trump represents the ugliest, the most corrupt face of America. Vendetta, mafiosi style has been his modus operandi targeting his enemies. How long this would continue? It seems we will have four more years of destruction of the institutions, the environment, morals, ethics. MAGA literally is ransacking America, turning Trump and his family in powerful untouchable people.
4
From Trump on down, a gang of rogues and thugs.
4
One need only read the information supplied in the article to which this link directs to know exactly who and what Trump represents and who he thinks he is!
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/03/the-2020-disinformation-war/605530/
1
Barr and Trump should be in prison, not just Stone. This is an upside-down time when the criminals and crooks who should be in jail threaten and intimidate others and hold the power to make their lives miserable with blackmail and violence.
5
The GOP is all suffering from Stockholm syndrome.
5
Terrible misleading headline. Written as if every conservative in the country is an ally of Roger Stone (and Donald Trump).
Come on NYT, be better than this.
2
@TDC Have you checked lately? Not a single Republican House Representative nor Senator has called out Trump or Barr on their interference with the Roger Stone sentencing! Not one, Republican leader. So, yeah...we are going to assume ALL Conservatives are a-okay with Trump-Barr tampering with Stone’s case!
3
@Mari
I wasn't speaking of elected officials.
Many conservatives in the electorate don't consider the Republicans in the House or Senate to be actual conservatives.
In fact, the elected "leadership" (of both parties) spend all their time trying to get reelected. Being a "conservative" or "progressive" isn't nearly as important as being an "incumbent" when it comes to our Washington "leaders"
I try not to confuse the behavior in Washington with what the Nation actually thinks.
Poor Barr, protesting so mightily.......because Trump pulled the rug from under him! ........Even as he is collecting Giuliani’s dirt on Biden manufactured by a Russian oligarch and disgruntled Ukraine employees voted out in their last election.
Yes, the appearance and acceptance of Hunter Biden’s board job was wrong......even if it does imply some minimal work by Hunter Biden. But, tell me, exactly what did Ivanka do for her Chinese trademarks worth millions.....except be Daddy’s favorite child?
Words do not matter when actions contradict.
——-Barr got caught and doesn’t like it.——-
1
Forget Stone, Credico and all the other creeps around the president and save your concerns for the jury forewoman. No one likes being called for jury duty but you do your civic duty and go. Then your selected for a trial and named foreperson. You do your best and use your best judgement. Submit a verdict and since your job is done, go home. It's now up to the judge to apply the punishment. But somehow the president decides you're the reason for all of Stones, and his, problems and pins everything on you. The same playbook as the whistle blower. Good luck jury forewoman. Unfortunately I think you're going to need it.
4
A well done thought and honest piece that gets closer to the truth than anything ever done by this administration in Washington.
4
Barr, if his lips are moving he is lying!
6
Forget threaten a witness. What about the photo of the judge pictured in crosshairs?
4
Republic...meet Banana.
6
The mad hatter's tea party continues......
3
Excellent piece of reporting. So much superior to the puff piece put out by this same paper on the front page. Only one quibble. The title should be 'Just another big lie by the administration'.
Keep up the good work.
3
Proof positive that having a big mouth will get you in trouble.
3
It was a joke. That's the White House new defense for every statement of evil intent. If it works, good; if it doesn't work, it was a joke.
After all, Credico did not get hurt, nor his dog; After all, Ukraine got the money. I am the Chosen One; Get over it
3
Stone, Credico, Trump, Barr.
What a list of bottom feeders.
4
Is there an Oscar for "Best Lead Performance in a Liar Role"?
If not, create two statues: one for Barr's "performance" today on ABC, the other for lifetime "achievement".
Barr obviously believes he's brilliant -- as in, smarter than all of us Trump-loathers out there in that wasteland formerly known as the Republic.
But I'd like to be the several-hundred-millionth to tell you, Barr: You've only pulled a fast one on yourself, because the proof of YOUR idiocy is that you chose to serve Trump, and actually like him.
Sure, Barr, keep up your Orwellian charade; it obviously gives you the jollies. But enjoy it while it lasts, because it won't last much longer -- at which time the cameras will shut down.
Meanwhile...
In your fleeting history, Barr, do yourself a favor: Brush up on your lying performances. Because every time you give interviews, your shifty Lying Eyes give you away.
5
All these trump associates share a physical repulsiveness. Ugly people. In many ways.
5
caljn -- great comment!
1
The horrors go on and we have to do something! If you can't do anything else today - here's the form to ask Barr to resign. He said he find his job difficult to do - here's the door! It's the loving thing to do, AG Barr, your exit! https://www.justice.gov/doj/webform/your-message-department-justice
1
The Right's Big Lie About ____________ (fill in the blank).
I'll bet you can't name just one.
2
Trump knows that both Manafort and Stone had direct contact
with Putin’s stooges. in 2016 election.
It was set up so that these two would slowly slide away into
night.
Trump was told everything would work out just hold steady.
Trump flinched when he fired Comey...and the hunt was on
First it was Jeff Sessions now Barr is the punching bag for The
Don.
As Bugs Bunny would say “ What a Moron”
1
In this charade, William Barr is the biggest liar of all.
3
As we get to a place where anyone who can claim to be a friend of the executive branch thinks they are above the law, this case gains importance. Compared to some, Stone may be a relatively harmless wing nut, but at this time and place, he must be an example of the balance of power.
1
Is all this prelude for a Trump pardon of Stone: a flurry of faux outrage at how this notorious dirty tricksta has been mistreated by the Deep State followed by a fusillade of unhinged tweets directed at the jury, the judge, and the prosecution, culminating with the money shot of a pardon. You can't make this stuff up.
1
The DOJ-Prison-Industrial complex of mandatory minimums, for-profit prison companies, and an out of control and unaccountable law enforcement community is one of the more frightening mutations of our tired, waste-based economic system.
And, every federal law enforcement careerist in the country goes to sleep each night dreaming of ways to incarcerate Trump and/or his goons. The fact that he wriggles free, over and over; and then throws Twitter eggs in their faces is pretty amazing.
Early in the Trump administration I read a quote from an anonymous source in the DOJ that “Trump will die in jail.” Maybe so. But maybe the system is sinking under its own weight, and Trump is just an irritant.
1
The judge was exasperated with Stone for repeatedly violating the gag order, then when warned he did it again.
The threats to Credico and all the tweets are bonafide examples of witness tampering.
It was a 50 year maximum for the federal crimes Stone did and there has been no remorse, just Nixonian salutes to show off his invincibility.
The man needs a lesson from the court.
Trump is still the same crooked lying conman he always was.
4
Publicity hound, obnoxious self-righteous Roger Stone deserves to go to jail and this poor guy Credico finds himself once again victimized and intimidated, now not only by slimy Stone but by a bigger impertinent and arrogant interloper, a derailed force who has little regard for the law of the land or the fact that the executive and judicial branches of our government are and should be separate. Let justice prevail without the noxious interference of Trump - the judge here, a strong, principled woman, will have the final impartial say as to Mr. Stone's plight but this will not be the end for Trump as he grows more and more reckless, impulsive, vindictive and determined to ensure the law of the land ends at the door of the Oval Office.
2
Excellent op-ed Michelle. Mr. Credico is between a rock and a hard place with sending his letter about harsh prison sentencing.
If this Administration weren't so corrupt, likely this article would never have been written. The Judge hearing the case now has to deal with them also. She knows their corrupt too, but is the sentence proposed sentence too harsh?
This bunch of losers in the White House and Justice Department throw a monkey wrench into every aspect of our Democracy. Their the crooks.
1
Trump is utterly desperate to keep Roger Stone quiet. Stone knows where the bodies are buried. Problem is he was convicted unanimously of 7 felonies by a jury of his peers. If Stone wants to appeal his case he may, but for now it's sentencing time. That's how it works. Hopefully the judge will see past all this nonsense and not be intimidated by her own death threats to hand down the original recommendation. Seven to 9 years of a 20 year maximum is reasonable.
Stone may have to do some time until November 4th. After the election Trump will wield his giant sharpie and pardon him.
2
The Right wing media is already preparing their listeners for a batch of pardons just after the election, win or lose.
2
So all one needs to do is watch the movie Brave Heart to understand what is happening behind closed doors.
I wish this was only a movie but it is not. VOTE!!!!!
1
This is another example of Trump's abject stupidity. The pre sentence investigation report is merely a series of recommendations based on the defendant's criminal history, probability of re-offense, if violence was used in the instant offense etc., Factored together they form the basis of where the defendant falls on the presumptive sentencing guideline grid. But, the judge has the final say...always has, always will. There may be mitigating circumstances ( cooperating with investigation...i.e., ratting out higher ups etc.,)
All Trump has to do was wait for the sentence to be handed down, then pardon the guy. As he does with all his sketchy friends...
1
Reading this op-ed reminded me of reading a summary of an episode of The Sopranos
3
What has become frighteningly clear is that huge proportion of Americans don’t give a hoot about the rule of law.
They are just fine having Donald Trump as emperor because they see him as fighting to preserve their white privilege, to wall out the influx of brown people and deport a good number of those already here, to establish a religious right to refuse services to homosexuals, to further marginalize both women and Muslims, and to fight for whatever else sets them apart as more “worthy” than other Americans.
They have no interest in preserving the rule of law on which our republic is based because they so viscerally dislike so many American laws, most notably those that level the playing field on which which heterosexual Christian males once reigned supreme.
2
Regardless of whether you do or don't think the sentencing was too harsh, the key point of this article is this:
As the former Peruvian president, Óscar Benavides, allegedly said, “For my friends, everything. For my enemies, the law.”
Look at America today and you see enemies of Trump and his supporters demonized and threatened at every turn, whether it be illegal immigrants, BLM supporters, the FBI, the CIA, political opponents, blue state laws and disaster relief, Puerto Rico. And what of the friends ? - its recently been reported that IRS audits of the wealthy are significantly down, corporate lobbyists ensuring every loophole in the Tax cut act was maintained, god forbid we enact a single law or put a single dollar towards the fight against illegal gun trafficking and mass shootings, and now a DOJ consistently putting its thumb on the scale for the POTUS and his allies. November can't come soon enough.
4
Our president accomplishes many things with his tweet:
- His ally gets an increased likelihood of leniency
- His hands on the throat of the DOJ tighten further
- He steals the news cycle for another round or three
- He shows his base what power looks like
But this is all a tempest in a teapot. Judge Jackson could impose any sentence, even a death sentence on Roger Stone and before the sun sets, our Dear Leader will issue him a pardon, stealing ANOTHER news cycle and serving us another round at this Mad Hatter's Tea Party.
4
This quotation from Joseph Welsh comes to mind"have you not some sense of decency sir" republican senators:have you not some sense of decency? Republican Representatives:have you not some sense of decency? enablers:have you not some sence. of decency? his base that votes for him again: have they not some sense of decency
/
1
How independent is Bill Barr's Judiciary? Is the Roger Stone shambles the nadir of Trump's presidency? Not by a long shot. There's plenty more to come soon. Lock 'em up! Stone and Trump and Barr and McConnell and Pompeo. Bad apples all.
3
Trump and Barr, with their perverted ends-justify-means view of Justice, see political warriors when they are viewing unrepentant criminals and creeps. To paraphrase one-time Republican nominee for president, Barry Goldwater, extremism in defence of Trump is no vice to these public overlords. It is time to return to public servants who serve the cause of the Republic, rule of law (without prejudice), and democratic values.
2
@Soquelly: No atrocity is justified in the name of politics. The US is a public mental health basket case.
1
I'm sure Roger Stone is a bad guy and probably deserves to spend time in prison, but there never was any Russian collusion. Stone had no inside information from Wikileaks. The whole Russiagate investigation was a fraud.
2
The Republic is gone, did it ever existed?
1
As I see it, Trump is now plotting to murder someone on Fifth Avenue in broad daylight, albeit using one of his cultists to do the deed in order to create plausible deniability for it, and to get away with this murder. Am I wrong?
3
As I read this poor column, I can’t help but be reminded that the author was one of the main proponents to oust Senator Al Franken without due process.
If Al Franken was running for President today, he would be lapping Trump already.
Thanks for nothing, Michelle.
5
Read M's comment below. It's accurate and to the point.
from the article:
"New York’s monstrous Rockefeller drug laws, which put people in prison for 15 years or more for low-level drug offenses"
This is an odd quote, when you consider that Michele Goldberg is defending Rodger Stone's excessive sentence.
Either you are a liberal or you are not. Stones sentence was a Travesty of Justice - the New York Times should have been calling it out immediately, instead of supporting it.
Trump's action, although taken for the wrong reason, was actually justified.
Even the comedian Credico understood this, but there is no limit to "Editorial Board" attacks on on Trump - isn't there any room left for reason at the Times?
2
Barr's dishonest whitewash of the Mueller report and his recent underhanded, but clumsy, behavior are proof of his total lack of integrity. This latest ploy is designed to make himself appear independent of the president, when the two are obviously colluding.
Barr ignored the warning signs that any involvement with Trump will not end well. What he doesn't understand is that his standing as a "straight shooter" is gone. Anything he says or does now and forever will be suspect. His association with Trump, like Mitchell's with Nixon's, will make his reputation irredeemable.
3
Let’s keep this simple. The right is rarely right. They are masters of propaganda and lies.
2
Has Barr's interference in Stone's case created any backlash amongst the Federal prison population?
1
First, William Barr is little more than lapdog Lindsey Graham with a judicial patina, slavishly corrupting American justice and the Justice Department to serve the whims of an incorrigibly venal president who "leads" by bullying patriotic public servants.
As for Roger Stone, he has asked for the accountability served up to him by his own arrogant bullying of a presiding judge, by his repeated violation of a gag order and by the crimes against the Republic for which a jury of his peers found him guilty on seven counts in the first place.
7-9 years? Roger Stone should be so lucky. Donald Trump, too, followed by nearly the entire Republican Party,
3
"All this represents a terrifying new nadir in the Trump presidency."
This is the nadir? All I can say is, Buckle up and get ready, you ain't seen nothin' yet.
3
The King plays his constant lying game in full view. Because of the electoral college we have an un elected ruler. Made sense when news traveled by horse and foot.It make no sense in todays world. Popular vote period.
3
Hurry it up with those Trump taxes!
1
Credico’s fear is emblematic of everyone in leadership these days and why Trump is getting away with destroying the institutions of government. For all his idealism, Credico is afraid of a guy with a MAGA hat? He gives them way too much credit for toughness. You can’t have it both ways. Either stand up for what’s right and take the heat, or submit to the bullies. By standing up, at least you can keep your self-respect no matter what happens.
1
Barr's interview was nothing more than Barr publicly telling trump to stop saying the quiet part out loud.
987
@snarkqueen. Yes, I am sure President John Kennedy and his brother who he appointed as his AG never had private conversations about work. Talk about a conflict of interest. Dems are angry because Trump learned some of their secrets.
@ehillesum
What has this to do with interfering with prosecutors of convicted felons?
63
@Ann
Nothing.
Just the usual Republican "Whataboutism" to try to divert attention from the hard-core corruption of all our systems happening in real time.
59
The Stone sentencing caper is one indicia of banana republicanism. Another is the Attorney General using his office to indulge Trump’s conspiracy theories by traveling the world looking for “evidence” of Ukraine interference in the 2016 election.
But our Democracy will be fully on the plantation if Barr launches prosecutions against Trump’s perceived enemies. We’re close. Unable to get an indictment against Andrew McCabe, the DOJ nevertheless refuses to abandon its persecution. Barr has already declared that the FBI “spied” on Trump’s campaign; if his investigation into the Russia investigators results in charges he’ll deliver Trump the banana cream pie he always wanted.
Then the refrain of our National Anthem will be changed from “the land of the free” to “lock him/her up”. Banana split anyone?
5
A President threatening a jury member? A defendant who's a friend of the President threatening a witness? This country has officially gone to the dogs and jumped the shark. If any Dem President did 10% of what Trump has done they'd not only be impeached, but in jail, and deservedly so. Republican members of Congress might just as well trade-in their American flag lapel pins for pins with Trump's face on them.
7
@Cowboy Marine
Hmmm..... I think the point would be better made if
they painted their noses brown.
God help us all.
US Army
1984-88
3
Like Michelle, I am pretty much consumed with terror from this administration. (My German friends are watching the recreation of the darkest time in their country.) I think stress-testing Sanders, as she mentions in ‘The Argument’ podcast, is a great idea, because I want everything possible out there and no surprises when we go to vote out the malignant, mentally ill narcissist we are hostage to now.
4
Roger Stone was a guest on "Charlie Rose" more than once. Never having heard of him at the time I found him just plain creepy.
3
I'm amazed so few appear to have seen the Netflix documentary "Get Me Roger Stone." The documentary reveals everything about that man, including his own gloating admission that he sent a mob to disrupt the Florida recount in 2000.
4
Why is no one talking about the tweet Stone put out with Judge Berman in the crosshairs? This guy is Mafia-style dangerous, and it ain’t just Credico.
Also let’s not forget that those DOJ guidelines were revised UPWARDS to harsher sentences under Trump’s regime -
5
Trump will not tolerate private criticism let alone the kind of public rebuke from Barr. UNLESS this is a prearranged scheme to lower the temperature on Trump’s obvious interference in the justice system on behalf of a life time friend. If not a set up Barr would have been summarily dismissed by Trump.And where are the usual Trump abusive tweets against Barr?
3
The nation is in peril.
We are way past the point of Republicans behaving in a highly partisan but still normal manner. They are now radical and seditious. The conservative "movement" is purposely destroying our republic. They would see it replaced with a corrupt authoritarian kleptocracy like Russia's.
That is the dangerous reality that far too many Americans, particularly in the press and Democratic Party, still refuse to see. They and we had better before it is too late.
4
The whole Mueller investigation was based on lies from the left. Anything that comes from it is fruit from the poison tree. The Durham report will come out and the lies from the left will be there for all to see. Page has his lawsuits in the works and there will be more victims filing. We have had nothing but make believe from the left since Trump has become president. The Mueller report, the Kavanaugh lies, the Ukraine fiasco is all based on nonsense.
@Jim
Don't use legal terms you do not understand.
And, I would instruct you to actually read Mueller's report, as it is packed with proof.
The notion that Trump is a nice guy, telling the truth, and behaving within the traditional confines of a US President, is specious on its face.
Better for you, and your fellow travelers, to simply admit you prefer the notion of one man rule
3
This is a Federal prosecution, not traffic court. There is no such thing as a "joke" death threat when the guy you threaten is a prosecution witness that can send you to Federal Prison.
5
@Anderson
Indeed. Such a thing from an attorney would likely result in disbarment AND prosecution.
2
trump deliberately avoids explaining how and why his long time aide/confidant Roger Stone was a conduit for Assange's (Wikileak) hacked "dirt" on Clinton directly into the trump campaign 2016 election.
The evidence is overwhelming, yet somehow this plain fact doesn’t get the emphasis it should get.
3
Roger Stone belongs behind bars for the precise amount of time the Prosecutors recommended . A woman with an addition problem ,who is also dying from cancer just received an 18 month sentence for stealing groceries in Pennsylvania.
So I have little interest in hearing how Mr Stone should not do time for 7 to 9 years. Stone like his benefactor Trump is a thug they think they live under different rules than the general public, where making threats against people is part of their daily existence . Stone as I recall threatened the judge on Twitter during the course of his trial.
A message needs to be sent that this behavior is not normal or acceptable. A sentence of 7 to 9 years in my opinion is on the lighter side since Stone may only serve 5 years .
Perhaps in prison Mr Stone may use his time to reflect on the life he has led, loose some of his arrogance and taste for theatrics and next time he finds himself in court he will take the proceedings seriously and not threaten the Judge.
8
Thanks to Michelle for explaining this in an easy to comprehend manner.
This piece also exposes how the powers of Greed, Racism and Religious Fanaticism came together to form (literally) a parasitic political third party- using the GOP as its host.
That half of America willingly joined is the horror that should never be forgotten.
4
One problem in an otherwise good column:
Wikileaks is not a "hacking organization." They are publishers of leaks, as the name implies. The New York Times has worked with them on publishing leaks, if I remember correctly.
2
Roger Stone is a truly "horrible," despicable person. He almost single-handly was the major proponent and purveyor of the Seth Rich conspiracy theory claiming that his death in a robbery was actually a hit squad authorized by Hillary Clinton. He smeared the poor young man's reputation in death and created additional, ongoing to this day grief in his parents. If anything, the sentencing guidelines were too lenient for this foot soldier for The Don and his mob that now are attempting to seize the levers of justice in the latest brazen attempt to undermine the "rule of law" and replace it with the rule of the lawless. This is the monster that the Republican Party has set loose in America.
8
The Barr interview was comical. He doth protest too much, methinks.
The whole lot of them reek of corruption.
But the rotting fish will not spread to Amy Berman Jackson. The Judge has shown great strength throughout her career and will not give a hoot what the Justice Department "recommends." A brilliant woman like Judge Jackson surely recognizes both the breathtaking buffoonery of Trump and the obsequious inappropriateness of Bill Barr. She'll sentence Stone to what she thinks he deserves. I would wager that it won't be either what the prosecutors sought or what Barr sought.
And then the fool in the White House will pardon him.
5
Adam Schiff should subpoena the 4 prosecutors who stepped down from the Stone debacle. Ask them why. Do this NOW.
Then let Bill Barr respond based on their testimony. I doubt he'd wait until Mar 31.
3
@Steve Wow! Thanks so much for this critical idea!
1
Roger Stone knows about over 20 years of Trump's activities, and you have to wonder if Barr has skeletons in his closet. Stone can barter his silence so I expect a pardon with some nonsense from Trump further undercutting role of law and our nation's legal system. And the GOP will stay silent.
1
We had a nice constitution, as long as everyone played by the rules, it worked.
It took an Electoral College republican appointee, 'not elected' by The People, to obscenely sniff out every rat hole he could slink through, in order to take advantage of that appointment for his own delusions of grandeur, avarice and greed.
3
Let's be generous and follow the Sen. Susan Collins theory of retributive justice. Just the threat of the 7 - 9 year sentence should teach Stone a lesson and change his behavior without actually imposing the sentence.
1
That read as if this country is run by a criminal organization and the rules of law is a thing of the past, mafia style now and it sounds almost like a common practice !
1
Good gawd! He certainly did but, he also threatened the judge! Really and truly what are people thinking!
2
I guess being a rat isn't all sunshine and roses.
2
Snowflakes don't stand up against adultery, bigotry or even dealing w/enemies. They excuse his personality and his actions as a guise to get things done. Remember that even Solomon wasn't a perfect human. Trump was sent from GOD to help the persecuted. Kicking Trump, the money changer, from your tent,. could, err, will get you crucified.
Everyone needs to remember that when Bill O‘Reilly, of all people, called Trump on his admiration and praise of Vladimir Putin, calling the latter “a killer,” the former said, “There are a lot of killers. Do you think we’re so innocent?” Here and elsewhere, Trump has normalized the most venal behavior, so that a bottom-feeder like Roger Stone seems like just another Trumpian, well, bottom-feeder. Trump’s modus operandi is right out of the Putin playbook: rather than reach for the stars and inspire, take everyone deeper into the gutter, so that your and your henchmen’s behavior seems no worse than anyone else’s. Besides, for the sake of further context, Roger Stone is someone whose back Richard Nixon has—literally.
5
The paranoid delusions of a comedian have a national impact? No one is going to get Credico.
This is the USA. What's news? Trumps entire life is an example of two standards. If you have money and power, you can be a boob and still get into an Ivy League School. You can steal and rob and never see a day in prison by using bankruptcy laws and a flotilla of lawyers to crush your victims and avoid any legal consequences.
4
@Displaced yankee
But his followers want us all to believe that he's the most truthful, honest person ever to grace the office of the Presidency.
Amazing.
2
Targeting the jury forewoman is outrageous. Can't she do something about this? This is the act of a dictator and her life could be in danger. If anyone else threatened a jury they would be arrested. Stop Trump now!!!
Thanks Michelle for your reporting and appearances on MSNBC.
5
I have a feeling that if Stone were a Democrat or minority Libs around here would have a different opinion.
@Joe Paper
Feh. We have a feeling that if Trump were a Dem, you and the GOP would be getting the rope ready.
5
@Jerseytime And you would be a big-time supporter.
Joe-
You have no cause to believe that.
As an attorney, I am more inclined to
hold to the law even when "my side"
is guilty of wrongdoing. For example,
Clinton got what he deserved.
I believe fervently in the rule of law.
I think we are, under Trump, moving to
the law of men.
It saddens me to see so many of me fellow citizens happy with one man rule.
3
Some call this good cop, bad cop
aka Improv Comedy
Games...
1
And here I thought he'd be much more interested in the Weinstein trial. Couple a seedy old boar hogs. Have some candy little girl.
He is going to jail.
But let's keep this nonsense going.
Fake outrage.
Move on.
1
Nice suit he's wearing.
Trumpworld—expendable. Maybe Barr is finally the guy who says, “I'm not goin' to jail for you.”
Credico may feel threatened now, but that's totally separate from the crime of threatening a witness that Stone is being sentenced for. At the time of the "threat" even Credico said he didn't take it seriously.
I think Stone is a total jerk, but the proposed sentence for a first time offender, for lying to Congress (which usually gets a pass), seemed to be motivated by political animus.
If it's a banana republic now, you can keep it.
Nice work. Roger Stone only has himself to blame. He acted as a clean up man for Donnie John, got caught, got tried like the common thug he was pretending to be and got sentenced. Despite the best legal help dirty money could buy he was found guilty. Take you medicine like a man Roger. Isn't that what you would tell someone from the underclass caught with a couple of joints? These people make me sick. Time to trade the pin stripes for the jump suit and get out of our faces.
4
donald's crew lying to the American people? Surely you jest?
When are we going to stop writing about another one of this crew's endless stream of lies and start writing award winning articles when the president who essentially might as well be singing "Sympathy for the Devil" every single day of his whining , pathetic, life actually tells the truth about one single thing?
OMG. Roger Stone threatened a dog of his friend. Even the prosecutors didn't believe it to be credible. The Left has been caught red-handed committing fraud on the court and punishing a man solely for the reason that he is a Trump supporter. While liberals warn about Trump becoming a Putin, they are, in fact, becoming Putin themselves.
1
@JGaltTX
Calling something a "fraud" is not enough to even hint that it was a fraud.
Stone is a rich, politically connected man with very well paid, experienced attorneys.
He was not railroaded.
If you do the crime, you must do the time.
No one is above the law.
6
Trump tweeting comments about a juror who was selected, deliberated and was one of twelve jurors who rendered the verdict !
Trump has committed another crime.....what a despicable individual.
Lock him up !
4
If Stone gets more than, say, four months of jail time, look for a quick pardon — along with one or two or others immediately after.
3
outing a jury forewoman and chiding her due to her title surely has impeachment written all over it. there is no justice in the US any more.
5
The speed at which we have devolved into a Banana Republic is truly shocking. Michelle asks if we can ever get the Founding Fathers' republic back - the answer is likely to be maybe but not the way it was. We have seen the face of Libertas and she is weeping.
5
Watch Trump classify Bolton's book just to prevent him from making any money on it.
2
The Trump mob exploits the phrase "Oh, he didn't really mean that." Whenever their behavior or actions turns out to be inconvenient in the public eye. Or, "it was just a joke."
People like Roger Stone and Michael Cohen were Trump strong arm enforcers, carrying out the dirty work so that Trump could superficially keep his hands clean.
Their behavior is very much in the violent mob tradition. Al Capone did whatever he wanted because he knew he could get away with it by threatening witnesses with certain injury or death that would never be prosecuted because of fear.
That is Donald Trump and his crew with his threats of destruction for anyone that crosses him. He's turned his whole administration into a vindictive mob, including nearly every single Republican in Congress as well as Democrats that are at risk in the next election.
Emphatically, when Trump loses in November he needs to be prosecuted for every single crime of word or deed like the obstruction charges from the Mueller report. Then he needs to go to jail like the very adept disgusting criminal that he is. He would no longer have his Senate and Attorney General minion to protect him.
5
Mr. Credico did himself no favors with his stand against long prison sentences. Some people deserve the long sentences they get, and Roger Stone is the poster boy for having the book thrown at him. Pompous, arrogant, uncooperative, defying court orders, and totally unrepentant for his misdeeds, I hope justice is served and the judge gives him the maximum.
That puts the ball back in The Donald's court. He can, and probably will pardon him, and maybe Manafort, too, if not now then after the election regardless of the election's outcome.
I fear for my country over these next nine months. An untethered 45 is the greatest threat
to America at least since World War II, and possibly since the Civil War.
1
Stone, Credico, Trump. I used to dismiss these people as looney tunes. They are still looney tunes, but you cannot dismiss them any longer because the head looney tune is the president. How low we have sunk.
1
It has long been clear that Credico, like Stone, is a morale hazard to all who come in contact with him...a fact that, in itself, should serve as a clarion call to those who would rid us of this entire cast of stooges. Be gone all of them, starting with Trump.
I do not understand the optics of this. Couldn't the Glorious Leader just issue a pardon? As is his "absolute right" to do?
1
I think Barr is simply trying to postpone Trump immediately pardoning his criminal friend.
2
If Roger Stone goes to prison, Trump can’t win the election because Trump needs Stone’s connections and bag of dirty tricks.
The 2016 election should have been investigated and overturned.
2
Well, what did you expect? Trump allies asserted that Trump "did nothing wrong," quite hysterically, when threatening the President of Ukraine.
1
As in so many of the crimes committed by Donald Trump and his confidantes, the party line always consists of two lies: (1) it never happened and (2) if it did happen, no harm was done.
Roger Stone attempted to commit a crime, issued threats to cover it up and now is trying to game the system by calling the prosecutors liars.
Bill Barr, in a phony charade of independence from Donald Trump, is trying to appease the court and angry voters.
1
The country is being run by a mobster. After criticizing the president on twitter, I received a barrage of violent death threats. After receiving an email from twitter and being told to take it to law enforcement, I was met by a state cop at my local station who asked if I was a democrat and then refused to help me. I went to the station three days in a row and was turned away. Anyone who doesn't think the president's friends, family and supporters aren't thugs, isn't paying attention. While the wealthy supporters count their new found millions and billions and the rest buy his red hats, the very fabric of our society is being carefully destroyed. I believe none of Barr's stories of independence now as after placing his family in lucrative government positions, he has done nothing but work for trump. We are living in an episode of the Sopranos while children on the border die of the flu on the floor by a toilet. For shame.
3
the masthead picture of the repellant Stone is a picture-perfect reptilian depiction of the beast.
2
Please good men and women in leadership, do everything in your power to thwart this evil trifecta of corrupt deal making Trump, low bar AG Barr and the real fake news, FOX. We feel like we are living in some alternative universe where the crazy, evil minions have taken over the United States of America and the country we used to love is gone forever, as the thugs and mob took over the Capitol and White House being supported by Russian agents and greedy oligarchs the world over, who only care about themselves and are out to destroy the world as we know it by deregulating fossil fuels, pollution standards for clean air and water and bankrupting our country. We are supposed to be the ‘land of the free and the home of the brave’ but we are increasingly becoming the ‘land of the oppressed and the home of the threatened’. Our freedoms and lives are at stake! Where is our Superman or Superwoman to save us from this Joker? Where is our Churchill to save us from fascism? Where is our MLK to lead nonviolent marches against racism? Where is our Obama to save us from healthcare disaster? Justice must be served. The day of reckoning will come.
3
Why would anyone be surprised that Trump's allies are lying for him? I believe that was firmly established during his impeachment process. The lies and coverups will not ceases until he's voted out of office. Even the I'm sure they will persist in whatever endeavor he choses after he's left the presidency which I hope will be January 2021.
2
Bill Barr is lying. His claims that Trump is making his job difficult from quietly destroying the DoJ is just because he’s seeking cover up for his sabotaging of the DoJ’s attorneys’ recommendations against the criminal Roger Stone
2
Good God Almighty, Stone threatened the judge presiding over his own case. As a teacher for nearly thirty years I have often heard the "we were only joking around" defense from unrepentant bullies. Enough already with this criminal administration. They shred the rule of law every day.
7
The right's big lie isn't about Roger Stone, it's about everything they say.
4
@Jon S.
hence Mueller not using the subpoena on Trump.
His mendacity so clearly revealed would have unerringly pointed right back at the GOP who would no longer be able to pretend they do not know.
On a tangential but similar note I think the folks in Congress should be exposing the way people like Nunes and Kennedy and Jordan talk and behave when there are no cameras present. It would expose the innate mendacity in all of them. It isn't manners it is outright fraud the difference between the angry goober they show the cameras and the calculating lowlife they are behind the scenes.
1
Yes, Credico is comical. So is Roger Stone comically egotistical.
And at the center of this comedy troupe is Trump himself who is such a comic genius his Attorney General, William Barr, has to go on national TV to get the message through to Trump.
"Stop tweeting," he said yesterday on ABC. What he didn't say but can easily be inferred---so I can do your dirty work secretly.
3
So tired of journalists using kid gloves. Republicans don't have it "wrong," they are straight up lying. Just like Trump isn't "incorrect" in his many falsehoods, he is intentionally lying. When the press gives serial liars the benefit of being mistaken, they do a public disservice. Start calling a spade a spade.
6
Under trump, America is a corrupt. failed state. This is depressing enough. But what makes it more so is that a little less than half of the country is openly driving the destruction of American's democratic institutions. Even if we rid ourselves of trump, we must still find a way forward with nearly 45% of the country desperately trying to stick a gun in mouth of democracy and pull the trigger.
2
So What if They Holler
Love when the Trumpster helps out his friends
“Roger - you’re sorry and you’ve made amends;”
Dissimulation for reasons of state
Can’t be a crime – you’re a loyal helpmate;
I gotta stay loyal to close pals who lie
In court or in Congress, else I would fry;
So what if they holler; I’ve been impeached -
There’s no touching me; I can’t be reached.”
1
Ouf, did anybody notice ? It will be now, "on the other side".
That is to say, the days will keep getting longer, and then it will get hot. And then the days will start getting shorter.
Then, in November, when the sun is at the same height in the sky as it is today, then we, as a nation, will decide what to do about these people.
We will see what happens between now and then. Keep your eyes open, see if you can learn something from these next 10 months.
1
I’m dead tired of the sordidness. It’s a Mafia Regime. Full Stop.
Happy Valentines Day, Everyone.
4
Where do they find these pitiful, pathetic people so eager for attention they'll literally do anything to get it?
Stone, Credico and Trump deserve each other and everything that's coming to them. Prison, disgrace and fear is a good start.
1
How anyone can argue with a straight face that witness tampering is only witness tampering if we can ascertain for certain the witness “felt intimidated” in their hearts is beyond me.
The crime was committed when Stone texted the man “prepare to die” and threatened to kidnap his dog. That is witness tampering, period.
And here we are arguing about this one crime as if it’s the only thing he did! Let’s not forget the other six charges Stone was convicted of by a jury: five counts of lying to Congress and one of obstructing a congressional committee proceeding.
There are plenty of victims in our judicial system today. Rich, white, well-connected Roger Stone, who has been skirting the law his entire life, is not one of them.
4
What I see in this whole mess is that Bill Barr is so corrupted by trying to accommodate Trump that he actually believes that he can and will protect the president, regardless of the rule of law. We are in the middle of a 5 alarm fire for our Republic and society as Barr, aiding Trump, takes over control of all Federal investigations. There's a reason the impeachment inquiry by the House had to be done by the House, and that is Barr refuses to investigate ANYTHING Trump, or his surrogates do. All those refusals of summons or subpoenas were just the beginning. Peter Strozck's firing and later stripping of his pension was the beginning of the end, and no one spoke out on this. We are being terrorized by a minority party-35-40% of the masses, that are forcefully and loudly proclaiming support for all things Trump. Any complaints or statements are being shouted down.
4
Why would it matter what a witness thinks about a threat? either it is a threat or it isn't. the effectiveness of the threat should not be the determining factor whether it was witness intimidation. try not to be partisan about these things, but the Supporters of our president are sensitive to every iota of accountability and use of law when it is against them, but everything that they do is always labelled "just a joke" which is exactly what our legal system is becoming.
5
We are amid the Republican disinformation, multi-billion-dollar campaign to throw the election to Trump. They are pledged to spin, lie, distort, and file false reports. They take this disinformation to Democratic candidates and spread lies before voting dates. They just did it to Bernie, Mayor Pete has been a recipient, as have Warren and Biden. Keep your eyes and ears open for this deliberate disinformation campaign--they are pledged to destroy and subvert any criticism of their activities. And we can't do anything about it.
4
A trial is really never about the individual, it is about the rule of law and our justice system.
232
@hw
What does this mean?
6
hw -- If trials "really never [are] about the individual," how did O.J. Simpson and Trump get acquitted?
11
@hw
Unless it's the Clinton's
2
Stone is a thug, just like his friend and boss Trump. He IS guilty and I hope Judge Berman-Jackson gives him maximum sentencing. Neither of these crooks is above the law, and Stone has zero remorse or conscience about his crimes. He'll just do it again like his buddy.
Stone's arrogance is despicable, as is his very existence.
6
If Putin put Trump in office Bill Barr kept him there and Bill Barr has made Trump a far more dangerous president than he could ever be without him.
5
Trump: sentencing of Stone ‘horrible and very unfair’. Trump: the butchering and dismemberment of WAPO journalist Khashoggi at the hands of monstrous Saudi Crown Prince MBS: ‘No big deal’.
8
Ukriane got the money. Credico's dog lives on. All good here. I think I see a pattern.
3
The jury foreman is being criticized not for finding Stone guilty but for allegedly lying during voir dire, saying she did not follow the whole Russian investigation and knew nothing about Stone... only to have it discovered now... allegedly.. that she made dozens of social media posts on the two subjects going back to the beginning of Mueller's investigation
I have no idea if that is true but for the huge amount of money I pay to get the Times ($1 a week) I would expect you guys to confirm or dispute the allegations
2
@Dennis Byron
Typical of the left. Lie, Lie, Lie, then deny.
@Matt
True. Only our great and glorious leader speaks the truth. And what makes it so is his vast expert knowledge on every facet of learning known to man.
All others lie, know nothing and are inherently evil because they contradict our leader.
I'm waiting for the day when our leader tells us to slay the evil ones.
Aren't you?
1
@Dennis Byron
Don't practice law without a license.
1
Trump and his cronies are the best team of liars in this world.
Every day Trump talks about the fake news, and yes anything coming out of Trump's mouth is fake news.
How he can find people that will support is the greatest mystery in the world.
2
Threatening a witness? Just MOB business as usual. Walk on, nothing to see here, somebody will clean up the bloody mess. Meanwhile, Nancy and Chuck will be "very angry" and wag their fingers appropriately.
1
This is right out of a movie about the mafia. And the Donald is the Don.
2
And if you should find yourself on a jury, in a case where a friend of the President is being prosecuted, then for goodness' sake think of your family and acquit the defendant, or you will be monstered and your personal details made public. That is how justice now works in America - a gangster state.
3
Vote.
And in whatever you do you must be completely ethical first. You must stop any behavior that falls on gray areas. There must be a movement to be upstanding, fair, just. If you are at all a bit libertarian you have to put this first, before yourself. We have to change this culture of personal corruptions that permeates even in the small things. No more hiding behind lies, behind greed, behind your religion, behind corrupt political dogma, behind absence of journalism, behind mobs.
Stand up and be a man. Do what is right, say what is right and take what comes. Stop your lying and cheating and stealing. Even if it is only in small things.
Just do the right thing. Just do it.
4
When they make a movie of the Trump era about him and all his enablers, The Wraiths of Con would be appropriate. Stone admitted starting his career cheating in a high school election and has only expanded his career of distortion. Usually cockroaches try to avoid bright lights, but not so with Stone. Two of his former partners went to federal prison and the third died apologizing on his death bed for his amoral life. These guys are trustbusters of a different sort.
4
Stone should be prosecuted for just being Stone!
1
All this "much to-do about nothing" isn't worthy of a B-movie Film Noir farce ... Just a couple of no-name drama-queens playing themselves, in a second-rate soap opera.
Stone: a really tough-guy threatens some over-the-fence gossip's "beloved dog ..."
This would be funny, if it weren't so childishly stupid!
On the day Stone shows for jail, how much would you like to bet he'll appear in some form of top-hat penguin-esq clown suit or another?
1
The Right lies?
Say it ain't so!
3
Somewhat off the main thrust of Goldberg's piece but interesting anyway. I'd say that a safecracker went into prison 'damaged.'
Anyhow, while Credico or you or I might want to obviate the rigors of prison, the 'Lock her up!' crowd can call on no such generous impulse.
1
Trump is destroying this country from the inside out. Who needs enemies when our own president is the destroyer? Unfortunately, he's not a creator - just a destroyer. It's easy to destroy, any criminal can do it. And so he is.
It's going to be a very long time before we come back from the lawlessness of Trump and his Henchmen. If we ever do...
2
trump claims he could walk down a busy street, shoot someone, and get away with it. Seems he wants to extend this privilege to his corrupt Cabela's of supporters. Can you have a banana republic this far north?
2
I hope Randy Credico does not end dead like the young Chinese doctor, who was brave enough to raised the alarm about the corona virus. Trump wants all of his detractors, millions of Americans, to be silenced.
3
Barr's sentencing memo says that Creditco “asserts that he did not perceive a genuine threat from the defendant..."
But just imagine this:
During his trial, Roger Stone posted an Instagram photo of Judge Amy Berman, the judge in his case, with the crosshairs of a gun near her head!
Even the judge in Roger Stone's trial for threatening a witness needs to feel intimidated and threatened by Stone! Imagine the audacity and the stupidity of Stone to do this.
Roger Stone is a cuckoo, like many of Trump's associates. He very likely helped Trump coordinate the release of hacked information from the Hillary Clinton campaign with Julian Assange of WikiLeaks. Roger Stone, the "dirty trickster" has been doing major damage to American politics for decades, and he's proud of it. Roger Stone believes in doing whatever it takes to win. Winning is the only thing that matters to people like Trump, Barr and Stone.
Bar should be impeached.
But does Roger Stone deserve 9 years in prison? Oh yeah!!! And Trump deserves ten times that much prison time!
4
Hello T.J. Kirkpatrick, Oh my gosh did you ever nail it with this amazing photograph! Fantastic! Sums up Stone is one fell swoop.
4
Strange everyone is so outraged about a person not doing enough time for a victimless crime. Dems crying for impeachment again. Media overlooking key developments like the fact that the lead juror perjured herself about not knowing Stone. Typical liberal and media hypocrisy.
If you don’t like Trump now, wait
2
Barr looked uncomfortable with his script and made several noticeable “tells” speaking in the ABC interview.
He looks away when lying or deceiving. Can’t maintain eye contact and stumbles on words.
665
@baba
He does it alot. His testimony at his confirmation hearing was also filled with such "tells".
76
@baba
In what universe would a Trump lackey not be lying? Pledging allegiance and absolute loyalty to a pathological liar requires the lackey to be a liar.
We are at a dangerous crossroad when our narcissistic president has zero credibility to anyone, including world leaders who are not dictators, other than his base and and the GOP.
It’s simple logic. Trump is a liar. Barr is loyal to Trump. Barr is a liar.
115
@ baba - Yes, if you haven’t been lying to others and yourself all your life since childhood it’s difficult to tell a lie, especially to other adults. Adult’s, and especially those who have been active in raising or teaching children, are pretty good at recognizing a lie. As you noted, beside the inconsistent and unsubstantiated lying words there are just too many other physical ‘tells’ that humans (and dogs) give off to control. Our lying president gets by not because he is any good at lying, which everyone knows he isn’t, it’s because he is perceived as a celebrity and also, to paraphrase Upton Sinclair’s famous quote on ‘understanding something, ‘It is difficult to get a man to believe the truth, when his salary depends on his not believing it.’ Just ask and Republican Senator or Congressional Representative, and they will confirm that to be true... or not as the need requires.
70
Barr's complaint about Trump's interference was perfectly staged by Barr and Trump. Of course Trump's future conduct will not change, but Barr will continue to complain when matters get too hot for the Justice Department. Trump is happy with Barr's complaints because nothing requires him to change his behavior, and it will let Barr continue under a veil of propriety.
7
"His fear has national implications, because a central question in the Stone sentencing is whether Credico truly felt endangered when Stone promised to cause him harm. Despite what the administration’s defenders say, the answer is yes."
You are wrong here Ms Goldberg. The crime is the threat itself. Not whether or not it worked at creating fear or having the intended result. Some would consider the lying to Congress to be worse. But in either case both were escalations by Stone for having finally been caught at the trade he has practiced for his entire adult life; Selling his services for doing dirty deeds with the promise that he will take the fall if caught. he lived up to it but the crimes he got convicted of were him trying to not to have to live up to it.
4
During my years as a volunteer in prison, I lost all belief in the phrase, “and justice for all”.
Our system has favored the wealthy and powerful long before recent events. Put personalities aside and accept the truth. There are worse criminal justice systems in the world, but America is far from a shining example.
10
@Patrick Crowley I recommend everyone read "Just Mercy" by Bryan Stevenson for an honest look at the injustices in our system. (The movie is great, but the book is better and covers much more ground).
2
@Patrick Crowley
Facts that the Trumpists willfully ignore in the Stone case. If any criminal defendant had more than an even shake in our justice system, it was him.
White.
Male.
Wealthy.
Politically connected.
The notion that Stone did not get a fair trial is fantasy.
4
This situation is now a full-on attack on our judicial system.
It gains traction because far too few Americans know how the legal system works.
First and foremost, Stone is represented by well paid attorneys.
They were provided with all the prosecutions evidence against Stone in advance, according to the rules of evidence and criminal procedure. If they felt wronged, they had the ability to file Motions on same, to be decided by a judge.
The full breadth of the statutory, case and Constitutional law
was available to these lawyers.
The jury was chosen in a process known as voir dire. The forewoman was known to be a Dem who ran for office in 2012. Stone lawyers did not challenge her, when they could. Stone was convicted. A number of charges, especially lying, were no brainers brought about by Stone's
own hubris.
Trump has 40% of our fellow citizens in the palm of his hand.
If he says 'X", the vast majority of them will parrot X! Even those who know all of the above (I travel in legal circles, and
know more than a couple attorneys who are Trumpists) will simply ignore it, and also say X!
Only the behavior of people under the great dictators of the 20th century is instructive on what's happening now.
Orwell got it all right.
19
If it weren't for the electoral college, we would not be having this situation.
Get rid of the electoral college.
21
Since his supporters and his base seem to enjoy the Trump Show so much, perhaps, before he leaves office, he could
do a TV series in which his jailed cronies compete for pardons.
Take his mind off the job that he doesn't want to do anyway.
16
Robert Mueller's investigation ?
Is that what it is called now ?
I saw Robert Mueller on TV, I watched most of his testimony, we all know it was not his investigation, he was a prop. So please do not insult our intelligence by inferring it was a real investigation, it was not, they knew within weeks it was going no where, all they did was ride on the taxpayers dime for a few profitable years.
2
The jury was the finder of fact in this case and determined that Stone threatened Credico. In a sane universe that would be enough. Isn't the judge bound by the jury's determination here?Victim statements are merely guides for the judge. She still must sentence Stone according to the verdict and the sentencing guidelines.
But no matter what the outcome is the sentence will still be too harsh for Trump who believes that Stone should never have been charged with wrongdoing. So, Stone will be pardoned, free to engage in the same shenanigans during what Trump knows will be his next term in office.
What is it going to take for Republican politicians to wake up?
13
@EMiller
In a sane universe, somebody who is charged with lying is also charged with the underlying crime he is lying about.
The average prison sentence for somebody convicted of rape is 4 years.
Anthony Weiner spent less than 2 years in jail for sending explicit photos to minors.
But someone charged with nothing more than lying to law enforcement and threatening a witness's dog deserves 7-9 years in prison.
Never mind that other people who lied to investigators and courts (such as certain FBI agents and cabinet members) didn't even get charged, let alone prosecuted.
What will it take for YOU to wake up?
@Viv You are talking about apples and oranges. Stone was convicted of federal, not state, crimes. The federal sentencing guidelines for those crimes constrains the judge when she imposes the sentence. If you don't like the sentencing guidelines for the crimes Stone was convicted of you should contact your Congressional representatives and demand that those guidelines be changed. In addition you miss the point. It is not the sentencing that's the problem here but Trump's involvement in a criminal case that should be free from his interference.
1
The framers of the Constitution envisioned three branches of government relatively independent from each other. This system has worked for 230 years, but now it is breaking down.
The verdicts of the court system will not be believed if it becomes apparent that guilt or innocence is determined by party affiliation.
Yes, Trump bears much of the responsibility for the politicization of the courts. But Democrats helped it along.
Activists on the left pushed too hard. Feminists were concerned that men could get away with sexual harassment. So they short-circuited due process in an attempt not to get convictions in the court, but public shamings that would destroy the lives of perpetrators with no need for due process.
In the case of Bill Cosby, the media trial ran in parallel to the court trial. At least there was a court trial.
The vast majority of MeToo cases never go to trial. What's the point? The career is already toast after the accusation followed by media coverage.
As a result the accuser is never actually cross-examined in court. And feminists push the trope that "women never lie."
Guess what? Some people don't believe that. They include many Republicans.
Consider the trail, I mean confirmation, of Brett Kavanaugh. Senators voted as tribes in that confirmation hearing.
What America heard was that guilt or innocence depends on party affiliation, nothing more.
That is a terrible message. And both parties have been complicit.
@Blaise Descartes Many women have had no choice because statutes of limitations have run out. And yes, you can argue that's their fault for not reporting earlier, but saying that does not address the myriad of reasons women are reluctant to report - which includes being routinely abused by the court system (and often the police before that) when they report. This is not a "both sides" issue, and the metoo movement is not responsible for Trump. (in fact it has clearly failed against him, because no one on the right even cares about his abuses, many admitted or recorded).
17
All of this is terrible, of course, and Ms. Goldberg is a reliable collector of facts and an eloquent writer and speaker of truth.
Meanwhile, as we rightly fear for the rule of law, the Trump budget has received little discussion. From the perspective of the 2020 election, which appears our only means to recapture some semblance of decency and justice, not to mention to help solve problems (climate change, anyone?) with the rest of the world, the priorities presented in the Trump budget should be a primary focus. Trump and his enablers and sycophants are experts at inundating us with outrage on a transactional basis, but what of their persistent desire to eviscerate the Affordable Care Act, with no replacement? What of their plan to further deter the poor from receiving Medicaid or food stamps? What of their continued reduction in the budget of the EPA and their disdain for science? And all of this while dumping more money into weapons of undetermined benefit for their massive cost - including more nuclear weapons - and into a rapidly conceived "space force"? More money for the wall - for what gain? How will the budget help protect our elections or support the cybersecurity of communities and organizations, increasing in number, suffering from ransomware attacks?
I await the critical analysis of the Trump budget by the esteemed opinion writers and editorial board of the NYT, much as I appreciate their defense of the rule of law.
16
In 2017 I was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer. I started writing about the experience in a book titled "Cancer and Me in the Early Days if Trump."
Little did I realize then which was the more deadly cancer.
55
Also this fuss and the sentence hasn’t even been announced yet?
Maybe CNN will be there again this time when it is announced.
These politically motivated vendettas (from both sides) are enough and need to stop and we need to get our politicians - on both sides - back to work for us.
Also we should ban the 24 hour news cycle that has made politics a combative blood sport that’s continually in our faces and having a depressing effect. I’m not saying we curtail the press by any means but where we are now is just unhealthy at both a personal and national level.
18
@Norville T. Johnston If you ban the 24 hour news cycle and then say your not saying we curtail the press, then what are you saying?
13
@Norville T. Johnston
Sorry, Norville, but this is not a "both sides" issue.
Unless you mean there's one side with the Democrats and the rule of law, and then there's Trumplandia where the law really doesn't matter.
33
@Norville T. Johnston Sorry, the "from both sides" just doesn't hold water. One side is 10,000% more to blame than the other. Period.
21
As Mussolini noted to tout the Italian transition to fascism, "We have buried the putrid corpse of democracy." Donald Trump brought the shovel. He has exposed the inability of the Constitution to protect against its many flaws in the age of social media and reality TV.
America's republic was always fragile, a hybrid construction of federalism and democracy based on a Constitution that the Founders knew depended on promoting men of civic virtue to lead it. They talked about civic virtue constantly. Such virtue did not mean religious or moral virtue but rather a commitment to put the interests of the greater society above their own, of their own special interests. Every political mechanism in the Constitution was designed to promote such civic virtue. George Washington, a man whose greatest single attribute was, in fact, civic virtue, got the country started out right. Donald Trump, the absolute antithesis of civic virtue, and moral virtue as well, has killed it. Let's end the charade and break the country into several regions.
8
The larger question, for me at least, is: how did someone who helped whitewash the Iran-Contra affair ever make a political comeback? Barr clearly had no problems with legal double standards and should have been rejected as the nominee for AG. Clearly, the current Senate majority also has no qualms with double standards. Not that the Democrats get a pass. Perhaps if AG Holder had seen fit to jail the perpetrators of the financial meltdown, there would have been less resentment toward the “elites”.
Fairness, it would seem, needs to make a highly visible comeback in our system of government. Perhaps, then, there would be fewer voters willing to burn the house down.
16
@Ray Zielinski: The Iran-Contra affair was another exercise in treason by Republicans to relieve America from the socialistic Carter administration. It is all legal because it is motivated by an airtight tautology.
It seems possible Credico's letter to the judge may be influenced by and further evidence of his fear and not really related to his attitude about prison other than by coincidence.
"Please go easy on the guy who threatened me so his cronies do not attack me".
Once one starts negotiating with terrorists, either directly or through minimizing their actions to others, this seems like a form of "small t terrorism", one is playing their game. Do not do - report what needs to be reported and let the system work on its own.
6
HYPOTHETICALLY folks, if an everyday US citizen angry at Trump, wrote him an email or a Tweet, threatening to kidnap a loved one and warning him to “prepare to die,” and was subsequently convicted of this, do you think that the president might be pleased with only a 7-9 year prison sentence for the perpetrator?
1
First, if Barr can’t do his job because of Trump’s tweets, he should resign. But of course, Barr is just throwing out red herrings. I also think that the discussion of Stone’s sentence is moot. Trump will commute his sentence or pardon him post haste.
14
We are all adults, young and old, of various scopes and depths of experience.
I would suggest that even the most sheltered among us have known people in their lives who are simply toxic and literally poisonous to everyone and to everything they touch.
And I would additionally suggest that through a long series of rock-concert political rallies full of promises and lies rather than personal interactions, and in spite of open honesty regarding his long history of toxicity, we find ourselves having elected such a person to act as our president.
What a strange place to find ourselves . . .
Vote good people. Forgawdsakes vote this time.
-C
16
With Trump, there is no future.
He has presented no forward looking vision. He is entirely focused on retroactive goals: make America great again, and revenge for anyone who questioned or disagreed with him.
15
@Alix: America was great when it stood more or less unscathed in the ashes of WW II. Trump seems to think the US can pull that trick off again. "MAGA!"
Again, this is mob boss type of behavior by Trump. Clearly, Stone, like Manafort, both of whom had direct contacts with Russian operatives during the 2016 election, has the goods on Trump and Trump does not want to offend either of them, and have them start doing canary imitations, as did the convicted Michael Cohen.
As Yale professor Timothy Snyder pointed out on Rachel Maddow last night, our country has descended from the Rule of Law into an authoritarian "Friends and Enemies" system of justice, where different judicial standards apply, depending on whether you are a Friend or Enemy of the Leader.
By this imperial standard, Stone and Manafort are Friends of the Leader and therefore deserving of official leniency. Comey, Page and Strock are Enemies and therefore deserving of the harshest judgment and punishment.
The only remedy for this authoritarian justice is to speak out against it, as the four courageous prosecutors did with their resignations, and of course to vote for leaders who will commit themselves to administering the Rule of Law.
26
@John M: Trump's voters gave no thought to giving Trump complete mastery of what is classified in the US, which exposes all who have security clearances to criminal action for disclosing it without authorization.
2
Again, this is mob boss type of behavior by Trump. Clearly, Stone, like Manafort, both of whom had direct contacts with Russian operatives during the 2016 election, has the goods on Trump and Trump does not want to offend either of them, and have them start doing canary imitations, as did the convicted Michael Cohen.
As Yale professor Timothy Snyder pointed out on Rachel Maddow last night, our country has descended from the Rule of Law into an authoritarian "Friends and Enemies" system of justice, where different judicial standards apply, depending on whether you are a Friend or Enemy of the Leader.
By this imperial standard, Stone and Manafort are Friends of the Leader and therefore deserving of official leniency. Comey, Page and Strock are Enemies and therefore deserving of the harshest judgment and punishment.
The only remedy for this authoritarian justice is to speak out against it, as the four courageous prosecutors did with their resignations, and of course to vote for leaders who will commit themselves to administering the Rule of Law.
3
The only argument a decent person can make for Trump's continuation as President is the economy. But the economy is not as healthy as the stock market seems to think. Actually corporations used most of their 43% savings on taxes to buy back stock. That pushed up earnings per share even while earnings were not necessarily going up. The DOW has so far ignored that reality.
Actually, with Germany and China slumping, our goods and services are in less demand. Manufacturing is down again last month while productivity is up a tiny bit. The steerers of stock market prices will reckon with the myth that the economy is growing robustly and "cost correct."
Those employed in multiple job positions make it seem that unemployment is only 3.4%. Another myth. Employed in two places is not the same as two people employed.
9
@cjg, the economy is a poor reason because presidents don't really have very much control over it. Not as much as we seem to think anyway.
2
@cjg
People who hold multiple jobs do not affect the unemployment statistics based on number of jobs. People are treated as either employed or not. If you have disagreements with Trump, fine. But don't do so based on misunderstandings of economic stats.
Only 5% of people hold two jobs. The unemployment rate is incredibly low at 3.4%, and wages at the middle are rising. This is a good economy.
1
@Leonard Although the largest economic growth percentage and employment occurred under President Obama, not Trump.
1
My Grandpa, from Lorain Ohio, would tell the story of a terrible fall storm when he was young. The ships on Lake Erie began their distress calls, and the people in Lorain heard them, knowing the men of their town were on those ships and they could do nothing. The night wore on, and the signals quieted, one by one, as the ships slipped under the water. The Senate has fallen. The State Department has fallen, the Justice department has fallen, and now the Supreme Court stand by, silent, as our lights go out one by one.
40
@Molly B. Thanks for the powerful metaphor. It’s frightening.
The underlying crime was committed by Trump. That's why Stone has lied under oath. That crime needs to be writ large every day. You say, What is that crime? Understandable, because there have been so many, but it was to fix an election by any means possible, including soliciting and accepting help from a foreign adversary, and then doing their bidding in public statements and in matters of policy, for the reason of _______, you tell me, but they are all Treason.
And the crimes continue. Just on Climate Change alone, by committing the U.S. to do nothing, it is akin to covering up a long time coronavirus outbreak--that's what climate change is in death and disease--if nothing is done about it. The Chinese government has taken down all criticism of their handling of the coronavirus outbreak. Now look at all the advertising of gas guzzling vehicles in the U.S. by the fossil fuel industry. We not only have a cover up of the disastrous effects of unchecked global warming/climate change, but those now responsible, the fossil fuel industry and their political puppets like Trump, are advocating for increased production of fossil fuels and all that runs on them.
The comparison to the coronavirus outbreak in China is apt--a cover up--but here in the U.S. our government under the Republicans is actually advocating for more outbreak, more environmental Crime, by doing nothing about it when it comes to Climate Change. And this continues with serious election fraud by Trump.
10
Let's stop pretending here. The vast majority of people don't give a hoot about Roger Stone. The argument over his sentencing is just a proxy battle between those who despise Donald Trump (myself included) and those who support him. The anger directed toward Donald Trump should be based entirely on the fact that he is trying to strong arm the Justice Department - not on what sentence Stone does or does not deserve.
601
@Jay Orchard
Exactly. We must vote Trump out if office. November cannot come quickly enough.
74
@Jay Orchard
"The vast majority of people don't give a hoot about Roger Stone."
And that's why we just might not keep this republic.
94
@Jay Orchard I've understood Roger Stone to be a thread to democracy for decades.
77
The behavior shown by this president and his loyalists must be stopped. Short of considering how many of us might try to emigrate out of this country, we (many that I know) are working at registering new voters, passing out VOTE literature, protesting in public, and so on. Some say "vote as if your life depended on it", and this seems more and more true. We need climate action, need to restore at least a semblance of a rule of law, need to address the massive rich - poor divide, the 50,000 with no homes on the streets of Los Angeles...
10
The last four years has revealed to us that "rule of law" and the Constitution, which have glued this country together for 250 years, are little vapor clouds that evaporate to nothing when enough of our citizenry no longer believes in them or fights for them.
Nothing less than the survival of those wispy clouds is at stake in the coming election.
All else should pale in the minds of voters and candidates, or this country is lost.
846
@Jenny
I'll vote for any Democrat for president. If love to vote for Bernie. If vote for Nixon over Trump, because at least Nixon had enough respect to resign when caught.
But if Democrats nominate Bloomberg, I will take that as complete and total surrender to the global billionaire oligarchy, of which Trump is merely a member, and never vote for another Democrat again.
If you want me to stay home on election day, nominate lying, manipulative REPUBLICAN Bloomberg.
12
@Jenny should be “when enough of our representatives” no longer honors them. It’s not the citizens who overwhelming reject Trump’s and GOP/McConnell’s policies who are undermining this nation’s foundational beliefs and institutions. It’s the right wing driven by corporate-derived
fortunes.
29
@McGloin
I don't want Bloomberg either but staying home is a vote for Trump and that I will never do.
74
A State of the Union post script?
That's what Barr's ABC interview feels like to me - another Trump production - a prime time "reveal" to calm those concerned about Trump's continuing abuse of power, post impeachment, and also, an apparent effort to expand his base as November and Bloomberg approach.
8
Credico stated in court that he didn't take Stone's threats seriously. Now he has a change of heart and is out for blood, aided by the prosecution and MSM pundits like Goldberg.
The reality is that a 67 year-old non-violent first offender should not have a sentence that far exceeds the norm. The judge in the case has and should have discretion on the sentence.
Liberals are all for sentencing reform when it's one of their own.
6
@kwb: Stop projecting. Stone is a political prankster. Little of what these folks do is for real. The Mueller investigation was just a stall to give Trump a chance to grow into the presidency and establish public confidence in his judgment anyway.
4
Trump’s criticism of the jury foreperson is the most-beyond-the-pale aspect of this farce. Will Barr launch an investigation of her? I understand that her running in an election as a Democrat was disclosed during voir dire, so Stone’s lawyers had an opportunity to challenge her, but didn’t. It simply doesn’t stop.
13
"In Trump’s America, only a select class of criminals are shown magnanimity. As the former Peruvian president, Óscar Benavides, allegedly said, “For my friends, everything. For my enemies, the law.”"
This is the nut of the issue. We seem to now be a police state, where only two people are manipulating the levers of justice, which means of course, we have no true justice at all.
My big question is this: now that Trump is tweet-threatening jurors and judges, how will they respond? Even more important, in consideration of what Credico told Michelle Goldberg, how will Judge Amy Berman Jackson interpret the Credico letter, a desperate attempt by a desperate man to ensure his safety?
My hope is she continues to be tough, and make the punishment fit the crime. The fact she'll have a target on her back enrages me.
Michelle is right: can we get our republic back?
1092
@ChristineMcM - Can we get our republic back? Not with the Republican party willing to make a mockery of the rule of law and the Constitution. As far as I can see there are no patriots left in the Republican party, only people like Susan Collins, with no courage, or lawyers with corrupt intent like McConnell and Graham.
121
@ChristineMcM
Something tells me Judge Berman Jackson will not blink in the face of this naked manipulation attempt.
47
@ChristineMcM
It's the "post-trial" gambit of this regime. If the trial does not work out well, well we'll just add some additional "arguments". Get over it.
5
I didn't pay any attention to Barr in his first tour as AG. But based on his current performance, I see no reason to trust anything he says or does. My heart goes out daily to the career government civil servants enduring this administration.
1255
@Mike Jones . The old saying, actions speak louder than words" applies to Barr.
We've seen him bow to Trump, and that's the real Barr.
Anything else is just spin.
110
Missing piece: Stone is one of the people loosely associated with Trump's campaign that performed the "collusion" part by connecting guccifer2 with wikileaks and strategizing the timing of the leaked material. He also lied about all of that, thereby obstructing justice.
7
@alcatraz
Interesting theory, but not proven by Mueller or anyone else. He was charged and found guilty of lying about contacts and witness tampering....
2
"...to quell mounting fury at the way he’s corrupting his agency."
The Justice Department is not HIS agency, Michelle, it is OUR agency, and lickspittle Barr is not even trying to make his own, he's trying to make it Trump's. Fortunately, there are principled people who are fighting to keep him from succeeding. It ain't over yet.
15
@Suzanne
Yes, it ain't over yet, Suzanne. It will get even worse, with Herr Trump's base wrapping themselves in the flag while carrying the cross,
1
Credico comes across as a very intelligent person. I trust he wrote a second letter to the judge clarifying his position. The reference to Jack Ruby in particular is essentially a cry for help. Credico deserves witness protection. Of course, the FBI is controlled by Trump. There's a fairly obvious risk in appealing to a Trump organization for help. Perhaps Judge Jackson can arrange for amnesty in Canada or the UK or something.
In any event, Judge Jackson is free to ignore both the defense and the prosecution's arguments on sentencing. She can look at past cases and make her own determination on appropriate punishment. In effect saying in her ruling, "This is on me." In light of present circumstances, this is the clearest path towards justice and security. "I'm giving you this sentence because..." and Jackson can make her own argument.
17
@Andy
Trump has already been criticizing Judge Jackson in advance of the sentencing: “Is this the Judge that put Paul Manafort in SOLITARY CONFINEMENT, something that not even mobster Al Capone had to endure? How did she treat Crooked Hillary Clinton? Just asking!”
1
@Andy: Everything about Trump is ominous.
Michelle asks: "We haven't kept it. The question now is whether we ever get it back."
It's clearer every day that about 50% of the Senate and of the electorate don't really want it back. We are watching Trump systematically dismantling Ben Franklin's Republic, and throwing it away, piece by piece.
If one man can inflict so much damage on the system in under four years, and half the population enthusiastically cheers him on, that system is far more fragile than we thought. Now that we have seen that it can be undone that easily, we can't "un-see" it.
Without major changes and safeguards, do we really want to get it back in its present form?
1187
@Bernie
"They 50% of the Senate and electorate don't really want it back" until the other party is in charge. It seems there are many individual's whose ideas of fairness only apply to their own situations.
86
@Bernie
No, we don’t. In all the ways that matter we are already two separate nations. The only way forward is to work for a peaceable secession.
34
@Bernie He is not one man, alone, dismantling democracy. He has been aided and abetted by Mitch McConnell from before day one. Without a compliant GOP, Trump couldn’t be the wrecking ball that he is today. Credit where credit is due: McConnell, and now Bill Barr, are the accomplices to the crimes committed against civil society under the larcenous biped we are obliged to call President. We will soon see whether the Supreme Court joins this compact of evildoers.
166
Donald Trump’s life and acquaintances - so convoluted, who could keep up? It’s part of the game. Just keep everyone spinning and the law will just go away. Interfere and the prosecutors even leave.
Let’s see Trump’s taxes, by the way, after Stone is sentenced. To prison. It’s been long enough. Excuse me, but no audit lasts this long...not even Donald’s.
1329
@MIMA Giuliani has already declared that the audit is over. And from day one, an audit was an implausible excuse to keep Trump’s tax returns in the shade. The Supreme Court will hear the case for revealing Trump’s returns, and the paperwork held by his accountants, next month. Pray to heaven that they SCOTUS rules according the clear precedent and allows us to see the documents. Pray to heaven that Chief Justice Roberts is a proper jurist and not a pawn in Trump’s empire.
266
@Ambroisine
"... SCOTUS rules according the clear precedent and allows us to see the documents. Pray to heaven that Chief Justice Roberts is a proper jurist and not a pawn in Trump’s empire...."
We just witnessed Roberts in action (rather non-action) in the impeachment trial (rather non-trial).
Roberts himself could have subpoenaed witnesses and demanded documents, thus making him complicit in the coverup. I guess going down in history as the chief justice who presided over a kangaroo court does not appear to bother him.
194
@oldBassGuy I say wait and see. As Linda Greenhouse has outlined in the pages, there is very clear precedent that the documents cannot be shielded from public view. Both Nixon and Clinton appealed to the Supreme Court and were denied. I suspect that Chief Justice Roberts is spending a good deal of time thinking about that right now. But, should you be correct, the country is truly doomed.
139
I love Ms. Goldberg and appreciate her efforts. However, it must be something like weariness that I have to comment to this piece, "So, what else is new?" But I'll vote and encourage as many others as possible to do so, with the thought in mind that the majority never wanted Trump so probably never will.
5
@Richard Hahn
Yes, the majority never wanted Trump. Yet because of an arcane rule as arcane as the misinterpreted 2nd Amendment, the Electoral College plus the art of Republican gerrymandering, we are the only advanced nation that catapults the loser of the popular vote to the highest office of the land.
1
The Stone story is an interesting part of the Trump puzzle.
Another, even more interesting one is this latest Trump-Barr public exchange: Was it planned? A diversion? A tactic to help re-elect the president? Or was it real?
I don't know, but I know I do not and cannot trust either Trump or Barr; however, I have a difficult time believing that they could be such political geniuses as to have concocted and executed such a complex strategy. If contrived, it's a near-genius stroke: We're scratching our heads wondering what the truth is here. That ain't checkers; it's high-level chess.
One more point: We are unlikely to ever discover the truth; the story will be kicked around by pundits until interest wanes. Besides, more Trump shenanigans will dilute them soon enough. This movie just never ends. One can't even step away to make more popcorn.
16
@Jim Muncy: I agree, the jockeying between Trump and Barr is a really important story, I think something like the power maneuvering that went on after Stalin's death among his successors. And, as you wrote, we may never know what's behind Barr's statement, though possibly Barr has left a trail in the form of notes or spoke with others about his specific objective.
In any event, these political machinations have the ultimate effect of making government less transparent and discouraging ordinary citizens from trying to understand what our leaders are doing and why. Trump and Barr both want to make how our country operates beyond our ability as citizens to understand and influence.
4
@Lew
So far: nothing definitive.
I'll keep alert, looking for clues, but even if I see something important, so what? Trump can get away with anything. We can't remove him from office; all we can do is watch and learn and hope for deliverance.
In a totally objective view, it's fascinating how the human mind can work to win. Trump's antisocial mind and agenda are worthy of the best political dramas; Republicans are good at that genre, cf. Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan.
We can't have a straight government with crooks in the assembly line. As Aristotle said, democracy requires constant vigilance; but "the master of those who know" never told us how to correct the powers-that-be. We're watching a movie in which we have little, if any, influence.
We have so far failed to provide and pass on a sound, just system of government to our children and grandchildren. That tears me down; that is an unacceptable failure, perhaps my deepest regret as a citizen.
1
@Jim Muncy
These theories matter only if you believe that either of these men are fit to serve their jobs.
If you don’t, then it doesn’t really change anything. They need to be ousted.
1
The argument I gather was that the statements themselves, irrespective of whether the witness took them seriously, were enough to recommend the enhanced sentence. Without that factor it would have been unremarkable to suggest perhaps half that time. The end result will probably be a pardon, which would have caused an uproar under the best of circumstances but will now of course entail several days more then usual of the venting and outrage that makes our public discourse the envy of the civilized world.
8
Thank you for clarifying these details. Very helpful.
18
I am waiting to see if the Judge in this case hands down a sentence of 7 or more years. It could all backfire on the lot of them.
26
@Murry I think the judge has to be judicious - If she hands down a very heavy sentence she gives Trump an excuse (not that he needs one) to intervene in some fashion.
1
@Murry: Not really. Trump has prepped his base with tweets about the excessive sentencing recommendations, the unfair judge, and a juror who doesn't like him. The rightwing is outraged and not only will they accept a pardon for Stone, they will demand that Trump given him one.
3
Dutiful civil servants propose prosecutorial sanctions. Trump tweets, and Barr jumps. Then Barr doth protest too much. It is the magical Möbius Strip World of Grassley /Jordan/ Gaetz/Collins et al. logic. The outside is now indistinguishable from the inside. No one has stepped through the Looking Glass. Rather, the other side of the Looking Glass has now embraced us all, as sanctioned by Dershowitz and Turley.
38
It's rather the same series of lies about Roger Stone as it is about Donnie: First, deny the charges completely. Second, attack the victims. Third, claim it's a witch hunt. Fourth, admit to the charges but say there's nothing wrong with breaking the law. Fifth, attack the victims....
55
As a trial judge for many years, I occasionally received letters from victims after having testified in a trial. They would express their regret for being the reason the defendant was going to prison. I think it is normal for some people to be so inclined. I would write them back and assure them they had performed their civic duty by testifying and they needn't worry about the sentence. The defendant is in prison, (or going to prison) not because of their testimony but rather his/her own actions. The punishment phase of a trial is separate and apart from the fact finding for that reason. A defendant is sentenced according to his/her own actions and not the private feelings of anyone associated with the trial, including the witnesses. To be otherwise would leave witnesses open to unmitigated pressure from defendants or their families and friends/supporters.
86
You are talking about a process in a democracy rules by law and not by Putin’s disciple trying to make America as great as Russia.....
2
We're nowhere close to getting our republic back. The significant plurality of our electorate that relies on Fox news exclusively to stay "informed", will play a significant role in our nation's undoing. Silence on the part of the GOP, if it continues, will hasten the destruction of the norms and traditions that all 44 of Trump's predecessors felt bound by. On our current trajectory, our republic is getting uncomfortable close to being irretrievably lost. Will those responsible even recognize what they have wrought?
55
@Paul Mc - - - Clue us in on whether a poor old man needs tp die in prison -
- receiving a sentence equivalent to the average first-degree rapist's sentence PLUS the average armed robber's sentence actually served - for doing what Obama officials did repeatedly.
Pretend he's an actual human being and not a friend of our #1 hate target.
@Paul Mc
They do not care what they have wrought because it's all about power!
1
Resigning in protest might be intended as a show of integrity on the part of the prosecutors, but Trump and his henchmen see it only as a victory.
61
@Gary -Barr should resign immediately, if not sooner!
@Gary with the help of Fox news spreading propaganda and false narratives
"new nadir in the Trump presidency"?
No, just another pause in the endless drop to the bottom that is the trump presidency.
85
@sjs
Yeah, I agree. He actually has reached the nadir - but then he just digs deeper.
2
@sjs
True. We started 2017 thinking Trump’s election, after the lies, xenophobia and misanthropy, was bad. Then things just got worse and worse and I fear it will continue to go downhill.
In my small upstate community, people (many ex-military) are aghast the Nancy Pelosi. “show of disrespect”, “awful woman” are the mildest things they say.
When asked if ripping up some papers (just a copy of a speech) was worse than marching a decorated military man and his twin out of the White House because one, Lt Col Vindman, did exactly as he was trained (as explained by marine General John Kelly), they say nothing.
2
@sjs And just where is and what is the 'bottom'? I sure don't know.
Have you ever noticed how much people like mob movies? That's the only real way to explain Trump's support. People on his side, in his "family" are taken care of by the Don and everyone else is an enemy to be destroyed at any and all cost. Speak out against him and you shall receive the wrath of the entire family.
58
@Just a Regular Guy
I had the same thought. The Trumpists get to sit around the proverbial table and laugh with the Boss's about his latest tirade or hit he ordered. Trumpists are so gullible not to realize that there is only a very small group at the table. Everyone else is just a little further down on the hit list.
1
@Just a Regular Guy
Reminds me of a time in the 1980's when a not-very-bright young woman told me how much she admired the character Tony Soprano, a fictional NJ mob boss. She kind of neglected to consider that if she ran afoul of a real mob boss like Soprano, he'd wack her without a care.
1
Credico said he feared reprisal from a crazed Trump supporter. Nowhere does he say that he felt threatened by Stone himself or, importantly, someone acting at the behest of Stone. Are you suggesting that Stone should serve time for a private comment that wasn’t taken seriously by its target?
10
@Erin That was far from the only thing Roger Stone was convicted of.
2
Well said. But you and I know that the writer is never to be believed!
@Erin Mischaracterizes what Credico said, which is that he believes the verbal attacks orchestrated by Stone will lead to physical assault.
'Nice little candy shop you have there, be a shame if anything happened to it.'
And since Stone spent his entire life orchestrating attacks on his political foes, the mobsterish implications are more credible than they would be with any random nut.
2
Stone is the only person who connects the dirty tricks of Richard Nixon with those of
Donald Trump. Because this became standard operating procedure in elections for the GOP since 1968, it is okay according to Dershowitz and Trump'a attorneys. It even got implicitly approved by vote of the Senate and the concurrence of the Chief Justice. Stone will probably get the Medal of Freedom after Trump gets reelected just like Limbaugh.
37
@LVG
"Stone will probably get the Medal of Freedom after Trump gets reelected just like Limbaugh."
I thought comment was hilarious; but then I thought, this is by no means out of the realm of possibility. First, Fox and talk radio need to make him a martyr. Second, gradually shift the martyrdom into hero status. And viola! There's your Medal of Freedom!
1
Randy Credico is horrified by what prison does to people. He is also horrified by what Roger Stone's crowd will do to him. Perhaps prison time and a change in Mr. Stone is in fact what is necessary here to prevent the horrors he and his crowd are inflicting on American democracy.
56
Credico can't have it both ways. He knew he was playing to Trump when he wrote the letter and he was likely pressured to do so.
11
If all goes as trump wants, they’ll acquit Stone, and he’ll walk. If and when Stone goes to prison, whether it be for 7-9 years as recommended, or 3-5 years, trump will probably pardon him. Between pardoning Sheriff Joe, giving Rush Limbaugh the Medal of Freedom, and any other corrupt things he’s doing (now that he’s been acquitted himself), things in our country will only get harder for the honest, hard-working, non-racial, non anti-semitic people of our country. Trump is making all of us fear for ourselves, our families, and our allies! I’m still not sure if I believe the words that came out of Barr’s mouth, or if it was an act to get us to believe he’s making decisions for the good of the country, or the good of trump.
34
@LI RES I believe there is a reason Trump did not pardon Manafort and I will not pardon Stone. The pardoned give up their Fifth Amendment immunity and double jeopardy. If forced by law to tell the truth at that point, Trump’s many bodies will be found and dug up before the sun goes down.
25
@LI RES
The good news is there is no "double jeapordy" on impeachment. Trump could easily get impeached again, and if he wins in November, maybe Republicans will oust him then if they can nail him for something like this where Pence is not also so complicit he would have no legitimacy.
11
@LI RES He has already been convicted. He awaits sentencing.
Perversion of justice is the domain of tyrants. Trump is merely an aspirant to that title. If he can successfully interfere with Roger Stone’s case, we take another step towards his promotion.
The erosion of trust in republican governance is driven by Russian election interference, propaganda dressed up as Faux News, the definition of money as speech, and now the open attempt to interfere in a criminal case by the president.
We just started early primary voting in North Carolina yesterday and wonder if our votes will be accurately tabulated and our collective voices heard. The worst consequence of the river of lies is that we now do not fully trust democracy to save itself.
Ms. Goldberg is right to quote Franklin, for he knew something about tyrants. We are in danger of learning more.
50
@David Potenziani Should we repeal the part of the constitution that gives the elected president domain over the executive branch? Should we strip him of the pardon too? Elections will cease to matter if prosecutors get unchecked power over their political opponents. Tyrants aren't accountable to the voters. That's a description more applicable to vindictive prosecutors who consider themselves above their elected bosses.
1
@Adam
This is misleading and inaccurate. The DOJ had previously supported the sentencing until DJT was in a position to reward his supporters after his impeachment. If the DOJ had concerns it would not have supported the prosecutorial decisions in the first place.
7
The main point of this column and the Trump presidency is that we are naive to view this President’s action through a lens of normality. Time and time again, we are left thinking he couldn’t possibly be doing THAT. He has operated like a cute toddler, doing whatever he wants with no fear that his granddad will dare scold him.
14
The only people America sends to prison for too long are those who have no money and no connection. Roger Stone has both.
Credico's letter has probably been written about Stone because he does fear for his life..
Roger Stone and Trump are vengeful people, Barr is the puppet of Trump, despite Barr's recent comments, and they all just got caught because of Four Federal prosecutors "of integrity" quitting their jobs at the DOJ in protest of interference by Barr.
Thank god for Judge Jackson. Even she was threatened by Roger Stone. Trump threatened the Fore person. What kind of people are these two and aren't there Federal Laws against threatening a Federal Judge and a Jury member?
We have to hope that Judge Jackson will ignore the recommendation by the DOJ.
47
@Jean
Barr is definitely Trump’s puppet. His latest protest is a sham and he continues to do Trump’s bidding.
Vote Trump out!
4
Its ironic, it seems most Trumpers see themselves as free thinkers, better informed, sharper and wiser. I see lemmings marching to the cliff. They will not read the Mueller report, the testimony of witnesses, the evidence collected. They repeat what Fox News has told them.
42
@Monica C That's the opposite of true. The Trump supporters I know read the New York Times, the Hill, and a dozen different independent libertarian and conservative writers. In contrast, the traditional press slavishly conforms to a core message every day. It's not just the same message but even the same vocabulary. Half of Fox News is "woke" too. Ever watch Chris Wallace interview anyone? It's completely different depending on whether they support Trump. I encourage you to read Epoch Times, the Federalist, American Greatness, and PJ Media. Minds are like parachutes...
@Adam I know of one Trump supporter who deliberately sets out to read and watch news from many sources. All others quote Fox News and discount the NYT and Washington Post as liberal rags.
In fairness, I will look at the sources you cited. I am annoyed when a "news" source, from left or right, freely mixes opinion in with news.
This whole situation is just another example of corruption in the Trump administration. One does not have to be a genius to recognize this. To sit back and observe all this as a citizen is simply disheartening. Now in my 80th year, there seems no solution except voting Trump out of office--providing we can enforce the vote.
24
@Harcourt
As a 70-year-old, I second that - VOTE Trump out. Whoever is the Democratic candidate, we must get rid of the cancer in the White.
I would add, vote out all Republicans. In the NY21st we have a great alternative to Republican Trumpster Elise Stefanik. Tetra Cobb is a wonderful, smart woman who will represent the people of the 21st. Stepfanik has become nothing more than a Trump sycophant - she no longer represents her constituents. Most of her money (and she’s raising millions) comes from Trump supporters and corporate interests outside the district.
Vote Teddy Cobb.
1
@Harcourt Think about what you just wrote. You expressed despair that the only "solution" is to vote Trump out of office. That's how our system is supposed to work. You think everybody loved President Obama? Do you think Eric Holder was some independent actor who checked President Obama's power? Our system requires the party out-of-power to respect the results of the election, not fish around for ways to nullify an election we don't like.
There is an awful lot of fear in this country right now.
Republicans quake in their boots for fear of what the president will say about them, so they turn a blind eye to all of his illegal behavior. Career civil servants, seeing what happened to Vindman -- and there may be more yet to come for that honorable man -- are terrified of speaking out. And now even some radio personality is afraid of what some guy in a red hat might do to his beloved dog.
And everyone, down to career prosecutors and even National Archives staff, are self censoring to avoid any potential confrontation with Trump.
The scariest part is there is no one to turn to for protection. Even the Justice Department is in on the game. People wonder how democratic countries can slip into dictatorships. I think we are seeing the answer to that in real time.
58
Remember when we were told Barr was an upstanding person, a good attorney who respected the rule of law? Either that was never true or we have more proof that Trump destroys everyone and everything he touches.
33
@BMD Why? Because he put an end to the Mueller investigation? Does it matter to you at all that the FBI knew in January 2017 that Steele was lying and that there was nothing to the dossier? Mueller should never have been appointed. But he lumbered on for 2 years with 500 search warrants and 2800 subpoenas. That's not an investigation. That's a reign of terror. You should oppose that when it's happening to your political enemies or else nobody will be left to defend you when the worm turns.
@BMD It was never true. He has a long history of coverups of corrupt behavior - by Republican presidents - Reagan, Bush I, and Trump. https://www.nationalmemo.com/bill-barrs-remarkable-history-of-scandalous-cover-up/?cn-reloaded=1
I'm hoping Judge Jackson hands down the sentence Stone deserves. What happens next is anybody's guess: does Trump pardon Stone? When does the Chief Justice speak up?
15
At its core this is yet another example of Republican corruption, a singular trait that since the end of the Eisenhower administration has grown like a cancer on the once Grand Old Party. Even Reagan, who almost nobody would accuse of being personally corrupt or criminal, couldn't keep those near him from using the levers of governance as a corrupt means to achieve illegal policy ends. The Republican Party since Nixon has with reliable consistency seen the power of government as a cudgel, a weapon, that can be employed with impunity in spite of the the founders clear intent. Government of the people? That sentiment was abandoned by Republicans long ago. They have embraced and advanced and now survive as keepers of government for the powerful. Rodger Stone is nothing more than a five cent cotter pin in the vast machine of Republican corruption, necessary to keep the machine running but easily and cheaply replaced.
22
I just finished watching The Day Democracy Died sung by the founding fathers on YouTube. I laughed and then I cried. Trump is a master at weaponizing every government institution to serve his personal needs. The GOP is in lockstep, doing his bidding. Nixon had Mitchell. Trump has Barr. The difference: Trump will continue to operate with complete impunity. We are not in Kansas anymore.
I am beginning to understand how societies devolve into dictatorships. I am watching our own devolution into tyranny but I feel powerless. Yes, we will vote blue, no matter who, but only five out of 19 incumbents have lost re-election since 1900, all because of poor economic conditions.
I am truly asking, how do we stop the destruction of our democracy when the GOP controls all three branches and we have a president unbound by the rule of law?
23
It is scary enough that Credico has been threatened similar to something straight out of The Godfather, but singling out a jury forewoman ( a private citizen complying with their civil obligation) to be possibly threatened and physically harmed by some crazed Trump loyalist means we are all vulnerable. And still, the majority of the. Republican Senators remain silent.
33
Roger Stone knows where all of Trump's bodies are buried. Trump does not want Roger sitting in prison getting angry about his plight and potentially spilling some important beans to reporters because Trump didn't make sure that he stayed out of prison. And Trump appears to have gotten the message. We can expect similar consideration for Paul Manafort and Michael Flynn.
21
@Susan
I don't think Manafort or Flynn will be pardoned since they don't have a long standing relationship with Trump like Stone does. Stone, truth be known, has been a shady political operative since the 1960s (he has a tatoo of Nixon on hi back). Stone does know where ALL of the bodies are buried and, if sentenced to ANY prison time, will be pardoned by Trump. You can bank on that.
6
@Susan Trump's bodies? That's silly. Trump has been under constant and aggressive investigation for the last three years from all corners. It's not like he's from Arkansas and his political opponents have a habit of "suicide" at the exact moment they appear ready to testify or getting killed during a "botched robbery."
1
Machiavellianism abounds today in our government. That psychology coupled with an insatiable drive by GOP to inflict a Theocratic Authoritarian Plutocracy (TAP) on us for decades to come makes this obvious:
We are sunk as a Secular Liberal Democracy (SLD) unless we significantly right the ship with our vote come 2020 and beyond.
A vote for GOP is a vote for TAP; a D vote for SLD. This is obvious, plain, and simple, and existentially true! No hyperbole; no mendacity; no slight of hand. That is the political REALITY we face. I see little light between 1930s Europe politically and ours today at an existential level. And we best get woke to it!
Now I know about 21% of us actually want TAP existentially; I also know another 21% like aspects of TAP enough to calculate parochially that GOP is the way to some "venal or moral" goals. This 42% is incorrigible. I also surmise another 4% will pull the GOP lever because it feels good fun at the moment.
Counter to that 46% is 54% of us that in our hearts know TAP is NOT us!
That 54% must vote en masse for SLD. A GOP vote is a vote against America! Not because of its tax plan, or heath care plan, or infrastructure plan, or lack thereof but because it is existentially pointed away from our ideals.
The D Party imperfect but NOT an existential danger; the GOP is! Vote accordingly!
13
Can we get our republic back? After impeachment absent Republicans gave POTUS the keys to the door, he's running the country like it's his own personal business for his benefit. Separation of Powers? Checks and Balances?
To paraphrase, 'As president, I can do anything I want.'
Chilling. Watching the real time historical change for our experiment in democracy being written. Now is the time for patriots, those loyal to the country instead loyal to only Trump, to stand up and speak up. Each day, new cracks appear.
23
Trump has changed the idea of what constitutes a crime. The all-powerful President determines what is legal. Anything done by my side is legal and whatever the other side does is traitorous and illegal. Vindman should be prosecuted, Democrats must be investigated and the whistleblower is a spy. Stone was convicted over nothing, ‘they don’t even know what he did’. Rudy is running US and Ukrainian foreign policy, Barr has turned the Justice Department into Trump’s personal legal team, and Trump’s impeachment will be expunged by the next Republican Congress. Republicans are good with this as long as the guy determining right and wrong is their Don.
16
It would be refreshing if the President were to concentrate less on his rights and more on his responsibilities as President.
10
Has anyone noticed that when a Trump ally testifies under oath, he almost always commits perjury? Why is that?
24
@Glenn
Quantum entanglement with Trump.
DOJ has been the same for eternity. Same as state and county prosecutors. Very political and self serving. I do not use the term corrupt, but about the same. They hide evidence and intimidate witnesses for their own advantage. Most of these people see these positions as stepping stones for advancement. We are watching it unfold before our eyes for a change.
3
Trump attacks judges, prosecutors, jury members, war heroes doing their duty, and the Republican Senators stay mum or support him or misdirect and change the subject.
It's truly shameful that not even 4 of them have the conviction to stand up to him.
14
Seeing the documentary ‘Get Me Roger Stone’ at the beginning of 2017 made sense of the 2016 election for me. It helped me understand how my parents, who’d raised me on Christian ethics and feminism (yes! at the same time!), had become Trump defenders. Stone says in that film he wanted a horse to ride. For three decades he saw that horse as Trump, and with help from the dictators of the foreign nations he and Manafort had opened DC doors to, his horse won the race.
Stone cut his teeth as Nixon’s post-impeachment PR man. He captured evangelicals’ authoritarian-leaning belief system by propping up Buchanan in the 2000 election, and then intentionally knocking him down with scandal. He used that momentum from evangelicals to help Bush win.
I’ve often wished that film was required viewing in churches, like a PSA to people who identify as Christians. Some of them are absolutely of the same sadomasochistic fabric as the president, but my feeling is most of them are being used (even Pence, at the start). Stone is one of the refining architects of that exploitation.
A brilliant chess player who chops off the fingers of his opponent is not playing the game. He is a psychopath.
20
How Long Before a Trump Tweet Kills?
Ms Goldberg, may I suggest a topic that I've not seen addressed concerning these issues. There is evidence in several cases that critical tweets from President Trump bring personal death threats.
This was true of Vindman and several members of Congress, possibly many others, including judges and reporters. I wish someone at the Times could ascertain how often this is the case. Is it a predictable pattern? Has it necessitated security measures?
In rally speeches as well, a dog whistle to violence has long been part of Trump's rhetorical tool kit. In at least one instance, a deranged MAGA follower in Florida attempted to act on behalf of his "leader" with weapons and homemade bombs.
Crucially, it is also true that this same tweeting medium is used by the President to announce policy, fire staffers, and publicize executive orders. The excuse that he is merely exercise his First Amendment rights is absurd.
Not only is he crying "fire" in a crowded public space, he is doing so over the official emergency PA system! He is issuing from the "bully pulpit" implicit threat to judges, jurors, and others. Why isn't this, at the very least, a legal case for closing his Twitter account?
Aren't these "credible threats"? Aren't we all just waiting for one of his tweets to be taken up by his "Second Amendment People," as he calls them?
22
@Nelson Alexander I LIKE your idea. However, Trumps horrendous tweets have ALREADY KILLED. Remember El Paso? Remember the PA Synagogue killing? All these crazies with guns ... and then there are the White Suprematists who get a thumbs-up from the president? However, like the Fact-Checker on WaPo with nearly 17,000 false statements from the PREZ, it would be a public service to link Trump’s Twitter feed to Violence. Looking to you, New York Times ....
Credico doesn't get to decide anything. He was a target of threat. How he reacts to it is irrelevant.
10
On a related note if Barr really means what he says re Trump interring (which he doesn't imo), he should start prosecuting Trump for 10 counts of obstruction of justice from the Mueller Report.
10
Trump, with the enthusiastic backing of Republicans in Congress, has replaced the rule of law in America with rule by intimidation, harassment, vindictiveness.
Just as Stone "himself" would not carryout a hit, it is not necessarily forTrump himself to order a hit. Trump's base is dangerous which has been enough to endanger the lives of those who find themselves the subject of Trump's tweets of displeasure.
We have a "president" who intimidates and demeans whistleblowers, federal agents, federal agencies, judges, jurors, prosecutors, congressmen. Meanwhile, Republicans in Congress are whistling Dixie.
14
Can anyone confirm that Credico was not threatened by a member of the Trump mob to write the letter in support of Stone. Perhaps, Rudy or Junior recently threatened Credico? Hey, if the president can get away with intimidating the Ukraine president intimidating Credio would be a cakewalk.
AG Barr got plenty experience blocking investigations into crimes in the WH during the 1980s and early 90s; therefore, why not put that experience to good use in the service of Trump and the Republican party?
As you pointed out Ms. Goldberg, in the Trump administration “For my friends, everything. For my enemies, the law.” Just ask Andy McCabe, and members of the intelligence community who are being investigated by Barr, at the behest of Trump.
At 71 my guess is I will live long enough to witness the US become the newest faux democracy. A nation run by criminals and plutocrats, say, like Poland, Turkey, and Trump's beloved Russia.
11
Michelle, nicely done, but you need not attribute the phrase: "Everything for my friends; for my enemies, the law" to a former Peruvian president. All Latin Americans grow up knowing this, as a synthesis of the power structure endemic to our countries, now spreading its contagion to the US.
9
It's very simple. It's Da Mob, not The White House.
Which leads to a thought. Bloomberg-Soros and other patriotic billionaires, what are you waiting for? We need to set up Civil protection for patriots who are risk from the Regime, and who act to save the rule of law in America. How about a privately built witness protection plan as a start?
7
Anyone who is waiting for the President to commit a crime is missing the point. He has "people" for that kind of work. If he wanted to kill his wife or girlfriend, he would get someone in the government to do it for him. He wouldn't do it himself.
That is why the people around him are going to jail and he is not; why others around him are under investigation. And why we can't keep up with all the crimes in his administration.
If the standard for impeachment is that the President has to personally commit a crime, then we are not understanding the perks of the Presidency. Fears of MAGA hat heads carrying out the President's threats to individuals in and outside the government are real threats.
13
Roger Stone is a sensationalist. His rhetoric has always been over the top. Everyone knows this. You can always count on Trump's critics becoming intentionally obtuse when it comes to such language. Suddenly, they take everything deadly serious. And complain wildly, which seems to be their real motive.
1
@AACNY "I was only joking Mommie" is a 7-year-old's last defense... before the slap.
And Goppers deserve one giant, adult slap.
1
@AACNY
And, by the same token, you can always count on Trump apologists, to excuse, deny, distort, or otherwise defend the indefensible, which is exactly what you are doing here.
2
The current state of justice in America: A Central American fleeing for his or her life must be treated a a ruthless criminal. A war criminal is pardoned because the President decides he has been treated "unfairly". Ditto, a cruel monster like Sheriff Arpaio. Paul Manafort, with all of his lies and under-reported millions. is just a guy with tax problems, singled out "unfairly" . A chronic lawbreaker like Roger Stone is being treated "unfairly" and deserves a pardon. A president who ignores congressional subpoenas is "troubling", but his actions don't rise to impeachable levels. I can't make any sense of it; ultimately, all I can do to fight it is to cast one vote come November. It all makes me feel so ashamed.
20
I see it as fitting that we are talking about a trickster and a comedian in the sordid matter of this presidency. From the very beginning, the entire movement has had the gravitas of an adolescent boy's idea of being funny. Trump thinks of himself as playful and becomes angry when others don't appreciate that. Bill Barr thinks he's clever in a 2nd year law student or psychology major sort of way. The cabinet members are spray painting the walls of the institutions they are charged with preserving, and the likes of Steven Miller are torturing tiny creatures and pulling the wings of off flies to show the cool guys that he's one of them.
12
Fascism: a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power and forcible suppression of opposition.
8
Great column! I’ve long been upset with the giant New York Times’ headline of Barr’s summary of the Mueller report, as if it had a strong relationship with what the report stated, thus ending any concern for Trump’s actions with Russia.
9
Barr and Trump have no credibiliy at all. These two are as dangerous as two sociopaths who feed on each other and reek vengeance on the rest of society. Coming in from the garden, I listened to Barr's exoneration of Trump and had a minor stroke that caused a paralyzed arm and compromised speech during his warped analysis of the Muellar Report. Stress caused by this Administration and the Republicans has been a boon to big pharma and the psychiatric field for depression and more serious disorders for people who can't wrap their minds around the overt corruption and lies. I fully understand Mr. Credico's fear and why he wrote the letter. As for Stone, his history of deception, manipulation, arrogance the 7 to 9 years is a slap on the wrist compared to the damage he has done to the electoral process for decades.
10
I am very concerned going forward. Why Republicans would want to continue with Trump is something I cannot understand. Is it just about the money? Special Interests and back door deals? Am I being naive?
Trump is even trying to hide how corrupt he is. And no one can (apparently) stop him.
4
It's almost pointless to say anything, because, to anyone with a brain and a heart, the contradiction is so obvious. "Law and order" for you, a free ticket out of jail for me and my confederates. If this isn't stopped in November, I don't think we can survive as a democracy.
6
Barr speaks out of both sides of his mouth. It's not that he does the President's bidding (he does) it's that Trump orders him around publicly. If Trump would just take him aside privately things then Barr could just take care of it quietly. But no, Trump has to Tweet so everyone can hear his grievances and know who's boss.
I would like to add that this may be the first interview from a member of this regime on a network other than Fox News. Coincidence? Meanwhile back on Fox Agit-prop Network, the talking heads are trashing Trump's "enemies," as usual.
10
I do expect the judge to lay down a fair sentence of five years. I do expect Trump to go on a spree of amnesty pardoning every turkey he knows out of prison right after the election in November. Sit tight Manafort, Gates, Stone, Flynn, et al. His base loves the way he plays the game without ethics.
8
In an odd way you have to commend Mr. Stone. He's crafted a public image, with his ridiculous top hat and Nixon tattoo, as someone who doesn't need to be taken seriously. It's become far too easy to dismiss his efforts to undermine your democracy, but he's been doing it for almost 50 years now.
This "self described dirty-trickster" has been working outside the law to do the dirty work of corrupt politicians and using his connections to ensure both he and his clients never face any consequences for decades. And because he's able to flaunt his ability to ignore the law, he emboldens other corrupt individuals to break the law without fear of repercussions.
Now that he's been convicted, by a jury of his peer's, of obstruction of justice and lying to congress there is an attempt to diminish the significance of these crimes. As if there is a higher crime than attempting to undermine the core tenets of your republic.
But it's all ok because of that silly top hat and absurd public statements... even if you don't like him you have to see the brilliance of that.
7
The corruption of the system of justice endangers all Americans. Mr. Barr is less a public servant than his predecessor Jeff Sessions. One caved to White House pressure, the other didn't.
This is a textbook example of how to completely undermine respect for law. It's more Don Corleone than James Madison.
I abhor excessive prison sentences and wish no cruelty to Roger Stone. The culprits are Messrs. Trump and Barr.
A question for Senator Collins: What lessons did the president learn from his acquittal?
9
Remember that Barr cured GOP crimes under Bush 41 and the Republic survived, so I would not go too far and act as if the Republic has been healthy. We have had a criminal element in the GOP for a long time that simply wants to support the rich oligarchs, no matter what. What is comical is that the GOP counters this true narrative with the falsities that the Dems are corrupt, and a third of the population believes the GOP mouthpiece, FOX. Perhaps that is how the Republic survives, though. There is a third of the population that simply does not understand what is going on, there is a third that believes the GOP narrative, and a third that believes the truth. Is that the so-called balance of power the Founders had in mind? I doubt it.
6
Eventually, crime heads run out the streak and the FBI puts them in jail. But Trump owns the FBI's boss and with the courts in his pocket, has called the bluff on Congress's unenforceable subpeonas. The GOP, fueled by billionaire cash, unleashed Trump the 'Berserker' on the Presidency and discovered too late that he is uncontrollable. Surrounded by the high priced legal teams of his religious fanatic and right wing ideologue pals, Trump is gutting democracy to make room for an authoritarian regime that he intends to rule, as long as he can keep it.
4
Roger Stone is a crook, a common criminal. The original DoJ sentencing guildeline was probably too severe, but 2-3 years of prison time sounds about right. The president shouldn't be intervening in his case, he's not that special. Let the justice system do its work.
3
Credico wrote a letter to the judge asking for leniency and—as his rationale tells the judge he did not think Stone “himself” posed a danger to him or his dog, and Ms Goldberg concludes that the word himself justifies sending an almost 70 year old first offender with no history of violence to prison for 9 years? And this after citing the terrible damage Credico’s safecracking father sustained when he was sent to prison for about that same amount of time? Her view can only be explained by how much she despises Trump—collateral damage to others is fine so long as it hurts Trump.
1
On November 4th, Trump will mass pardon all but Michael Cohen.
As for Barr's complaint about Trump's tweets, it's a co-ordinated misdirection plan.
Barr is Trump's stay out of jail insurance. He's as corrupt as Donnie.
5
Sorry Mr. Franklin, the "Republic if you can keep it" you described is not the same Republic that exists in the United States today. Your Republic 1.0 sorta resembles the Republic of 4.5 present today in form but not function. The newest version still contains the "We the People" wording, but now represents two small subsets of "We the People" which are the above the law wealthy elites and the minority religious "Christains". The majority of the People worked, fought, and died to keep it, but the few took it as they are the ones who really matter and the Lord is on their side. Mr. Franklin, you and Washington and the framers supported by the majority of the People gave us a unique and special gift, we worked to keep it and improve it, but now we may have lost it.
2
It seems to me that when you have to judge this issue the question is not whether Credico “felt threatened,” but whether Stone’s words implied or outright were threatening. If a six foot tall football player type person tries to snuggle up to a woman at a bar and says, “Let’s get out of this joint,” most women do not assume the “invitation” is for Tiddly Winks. But they also try to avoid “a scene.” Is there an implied threat? is there unwanted attention? You better believe it.
2
Unfortunately for our country and the rule of law, the Justice Department has been totally corrupted by Trump and his tame AG. I expect Stone and Flynn to walk free, either pardoned, on "probation" or both. I expect Manafort to be pardoned. The only poor sap left sitting in prison will be former Trump attorney Michael Cohen, convicted of fraud and perjury, who testified against Unindicted Coconspirator No. 1 to get his sentence reduced and is now suffering the revenge of his vindictive client.
6
It is becoming increasingly doubtful whether your country can avoid becoming a full-blown dictatorship.
5
For the US president to launch a Twitter attack against a jury member, in this case the forewoman, and accuse her of bias after an unfavorable verdict for one of his cronies should be grounds for impeachment all by itself. Donald Trump has brought every one of this country’s institutions into disrepute. This cannot be allowed to continue!
11
Crime syndicates everywhere should feel good that jury tampering, witness intimidation and threatening federal judges is no longer a crime if you're friends of the Don.
8
Just try to imagine being targeted by the President of the United States of America for being on a jury that finds a personal friend of the President guilty of multiple federal felonies. Think about the potential threats against your life, because we know that is/will happen. This is the country we live in now. This is who the Republican Party fully supports and defends - a President willfully knows his tweets and comments will endanger the life of any person who offends him. That is the country we now live in...
13
The one problem with the article is that it mentions a “nadir” in Trump’s behavior, which implies a bottoming. We’ve all seen enough to know that Donnie knows no limits when it comes to keeping the ratings up on his reality freak show.
5
They, and Trump, are also saying his conviction is corrupted because the forewoman had severe political bias. Well, good thing Republicans in the US Senate don't have extreme partisan bias and have never expressed political opinions on social media, because otherwise, Trump and their base might think Trump's impeachment acquittal is tainted!
7
Trump and followers need to be voted out of government.
We do not want our great grand children to wonder why we stood by while Trump trashed our Republic.
Never again a Republican.
8
All those tweets make it difficult for Barr to do Trump's bidding without all that pesky scrutiny.
9
Stone didn’t tell Credico he was going to die, he wrote it. The test to determine what is a threat, in my part of the world, is objective. What a reasonable person in similar circumstances would think. Not what the author is thinking.
« You are going to die » is objectively a threat.
Of course, if Stone had written a few hours later, after he had calmed down, that he was sorry, maybe we could give him a break.
But that’s not what he did.
7
Pres Trump threatens people publicly, either indirectly or directly, regularly. Then, he denies ever doing anything wrong. These two characteristics alone are unbecoming and unacceptable for someone who is president of the U.S.A. And, Roger Stone is no better.
Vote Blue this November!
6
I've been around a while but never imagined I'd be referring to the United States as a banana republic. More concerning is the uneasy feeling that it is going to get worse. Are you lurching toward Dante's Inferno?
5
Stone was convicted for mere talk. He is a first-time, non-violent offender, if he is guilty of anything. If he was a routine criminal who knocked down an old man and ran off with a wallet, he'd get probation and be sent off to reform seminars.
This is a political case, don't kid yourself.
1
Terrorism whether committed by religious fundamentalists, ideological zealots, or in this case by gangsters in the White House use numerous tacit and over threats to force capitulation.
Terrorism by any other name would still install the same fears.
The Trump White House, the entire GOP (including Romney and his coy 2024 bid for POTUS), and the Justice Department have been tacitly and overtly implementing terror to everyone not wearing a MAGA hat.
When laws are followed haphazardly, laws are meaningless. Our Constitution is no longer worth the paper it's printed upon.
3
Kurt Vonnegut must be smiling in his heaven on Titan.
The absurdity of the Trump presidency and the rapid decline of America in the final days of the planet goes way beyond what even the master himself could imagine in his smoke-filled study.
4
“(Barr claims his decision preceded Trump’s tweet, which might mean he was anticipating Trump’s wishes rather than responding to them.)”
No doubt Trump paced the White House fuming about “the injustice” to his criminal friend prior to Tweeting about it, thus Barr, and the entire team of toadies, knew about his desires.
4
Credico said he wasn't intimidated by Stone "himself" but Stone is the one who will be doing time in prison for witness intimidation along with other charges.
I'm a Democrat (no fan of Trump or Stone) trying to keep an open mind while tribes on both the right and left pursue head counts and I think giving a non-violent first offender 7-9 years is out of line.
1
I do not know how all the republican senators can stand by and say nothing, can sleep at night after acquitting this monster of an excuse of a man that is the president. I thought the presidency was supposed to set the example for all in the country and was supposed to be held to higher standards and supposed to uphold the law. now, how are people of this country supposed to or be expected to obey the laws if the person that represents the law is lawless himself. William Barr is a disgrace. I hope we all show up to the polls to use our vote, our only weapon, to speak up loud and clear that we do not agree with any of this and we must work to get all of these excuses of lawmakers in the senate out of there. if they are not willing to be the firewall that they were supposed to be then they have to be voted out.
5