I would be interested to see how these data pan out when race, ethnicity, religion, and socioeconomic status are factored into the picture. I'm also interested in the predictive value and statistical significance of the gender correlations. I mean, what are we really looking at here?
Perhaps I need to look closer at the graphics, but (beyond consulting the original research myself) it would have been nice if the author had specified whether and which findings were statically significant in contrast with those of practical or anecdotal significance.
While I found the article an interesting read, I was disappointed with how stereotypes were woven into the actual data - like we wouldn't notice! Even in an Opinion piece, I expect data-driven write-ups such as this to make a clearer distinction between results and opinions.
The Times does have an educated audience, but how many people are going to read this article critically when it gets shared on Facebook?
I agree with others that reporting like this - whether in the Opinion section or elsewhere - contributes to misinformation.
Was I entertained? Sure!
Is the entertainment value worth the ensuing concern? Not likely.
5
What a waste of digital space! The number of heterosexual marriages dwarfs the number of gay marriages so comparisons are useless. Moreover, the comparisons here are so superficial as to be worthless
5
I don’t understand how you can compare heterosexual marriage which has been going on since time immemorial to same sex marriage which has been legal for almost five years. I believe when this survey is done fifty years from now we can get a much truer picture and the outcome might look very different. I won’t be around then because I am married for 61 years in a traditional marriage that has gone very well, but I would certainly like to know the outcome at that time. “Outlander” for the future!
3
My wife worked and did primary care for our 2 kids. While she did this I literally, with my own 2 hands, built our home, did all repairs on 2 cars in our garage, worked at least 2 jobs and completed a PhD.
She has been retired for 16 years. She goes on river and ocean cruises at least 3 times a year with the Cruise Queens. I still work at least 60 hours a week, and do any needed maintenance around the house. In my spare time I built an apartment in our basement over the last year. We now have 5 bedrooms and 4 bathrooms, and a summer home on the lake (which I completely gutted and rebuilt). We go, with our adult children as guests, on a Caribbean vacation every year.
I tell her that without children, I would be a hollow, meaningless shell without purpose. I did no housework to speak of.
Put that beside your shallow data. Rigid male identity syndrome. I love my gay brother, and our closest friend is a lesbian.
10
The conclusion that gays and lesbians can be
conscientious and loving parents is really both logical and irrefutable without resort to statistical drivel. Judging from their responses many of your readers are on to this.
There are so many issues that Americas great newspaper could devote its time to - the list is endless and would include the mistreatment of gays and others, yet you continue to print this stuff.
4
More likely, men ale couples are more likely to have been living on their own for longer before marriage, and therefore more likely to be more independent. Whereas, women and heterosexual men are more likely to have been coddled for longer at home, more likely to expect others to do their routine chores for them.
1
I suggest you watch the amusing video about choosing a date, steady lover, and wife from a man's perspective. It creates two scales, one for good looks, the other for emotional stability. The beauty increases as the number increases from one to ten. The emotional turmoil and instability problems increase in severity also from one to ten.
A woman who is a seven in beauty and a six in emotional stability is dating material. A seven and a five woman could be a steady lover. An eight and a four woman is definitely a potential marriage partner. If you become involved with a nine and a three, she is not a woman at all; she is a beautiful transgendered lady.
2
While not discussed, I think financial well being is likely playing into this.
Straight and Lesbian couples have the easiest route to parenthood. Gay males however have a rather more complicated and expensive route.
As this is the case - the gay couples are likely better off financially than their counterparts and can afford to spend more of their time at home.
A better survey would only compare adopted parents - who would all need to be in similar financial situations.
2
I grew up in a pretty traditional household (stay-at-home mom, dad who worked outside the home). Even as a girl, I noticed how my dad's day ended at 5 or 6, while my mom's workday never ended. I was determined to have a different relationship, and I did (in a heterosexual marriage). The secret is simple and I believe applies to both heterosexual and same-sex couples: Don't be lazy, don't be entitled. As soon as you stop pulling your weight or start take your partner's work--whether physical or emotional--for granted, resentment builds.
9
This article fills me with triumphant joy - though I’m embarrassed to admit it - because the subject warrants seriousness. But I can’t understate how much internal work - emotional and and intellectual - it takes for a homosexual to arrive at adulthood with a healthy sense of personal validity. We are told, relentlessly, subliminally and directly, how we are lesser, how our relationships are unwholesome, not ‘real’, even abhorrent to God. The knowledge otherwise is hard-earned but unrecognized - like a college degree without diploma. The airing of this research feels like a belated graduation ceremony; a long-overdue public congratulation.
10
@Rob Women are also constantly told they are "lesser."
6
@Frances Grimble Often by other women.
3
Bad science. Once they restricted this comparison to "legally married" couples they invalidated any conclusions they could draw from it pertaining to couples, in general... which are exactly the conclusions being drawn here. The subsets of gay/lesbian couples who are actually married legally is far less representative of all such couples than are the subsets of heterosexual couples who tie the knot. Gay/lesbian marriages are sure to be more resilient, relative to gay/lesbian couples in general, than are their heterosexual counterparts. The various measures in these comparisons can therefore not be attributed to the gay, lesbian or heterosexual aspect of the relationships, i.e. they may artifacts of non-representative sampling.
4
Bad science. Once they restricted this comparison to "legally married" couples they invalidated any conclusions they could draw from it pertaining to couples, in general... which are exactly the conclusions being drawn here. The subsets of gay/lesbian couples who are actually married legally is far less representative of all such couples than are the subsets of heterosexual couples who tie the knot. Gay/lesbian marriages are sure to be more resilient, relative to gay/lesbian couples in general, than are their heterosexual counterparts. The various measures in these comparisons can therefore not be attributed to the gay, lesbian or heterosexual aspect of the relationships, i.e. they may artifacts of non-representative sampling.
2
Straight men who do a lot of the household duties and childcare (and want to) DO exist, I am married to one (and I know I am very lucky). I do a lot of the house cleaning stuff because I am home more, but my husband does most of the food shopping and cooking. He works more than I do, so I do most of the school drop offs and pick ups, but he takes most of the evening duties (bathtime, preparing food for our kid, and bedtime stories). He is there for every school meeting and doctors appointment. He takes care of a lot of administrative duties for us and our kid. He takes our kid to dance while I go to yoga, but then he goes for a surf or a run when I return. Both of us are naturally affectionate with each other and vocal about our love; which goes a long way. My husband was also naturally organized/a good cook/and a “kid person” before we met. I am of the belief that we are naturally going to be who we are; and if doing housework/cooking/childcare doesn’t come naturally to someone; it’s going to be a hard thing to change no matter what sexual preference they are.
And yes- being able to have babysitters for date nights (we have family nearby), take weekends alone together, have long vacations (we live in a country where the minimum vacation time is 5 weeks a year, my husband has much more), not working 60 hr workweeks, and being able to afford a cleaning lady from time to time go a LONG way toward maintaining marital bliss. I know are very lucky in that aspect as well.
5
"Same-sex spouses feel more satisfied with their partners than heterosexual ones." OK. Is this conclusion is based on data from a representative sample of at least 3,000 participants across various cultural and ethnic strata? No? Just couples in Massachusetts.
756 participants? Diary entries, in which people know that someone else will read the content and thus may fudge the truth to not look bad? (This may be especially true for the gay male couples in the study). 756 may seem like a large number, but it most likely is not generalizable to an entire population.
At best, this study tells me something about 756 participants in Massachusetts. As the authors themselves admit, the study is exploratory. Other researchers may use different methodologies and much larger sample sizes to answer similar research questions.
4
I welcome the research that confirms a great deal of common sense. Not only did the legalization of same-sex marriage not imperil opposite-sex marriage, but it may have helped provide a more satisfying model of marriage than the traditional marriage. An important point in Judge Vaughn Walker's landmark ruling in the Proposition 8 case was that the gendered sex roles that defenders of Prop 8 were relying upon had long been abandoned by the law and in American life. While these gendered roles continue to affect some marriages, the evidence shows that they do so to the dissatisfaction of many. Thanks to other studies, we have long known that same-sex couples raise children who do as well as those raised by opposite-sex couples. I am glad to know that same-sex marriages are also as happy (or happier) than their heterosexual counterparts.
6
I’ve been in a heterosexual relationship for 7 years (we’re both 30). My partner and I live together and plan to spend our lives together and have kids, but we’re not going to get legally married or have a wedding. The whole institution just seems so outdated to us - the thought of being a “wife” makes me ill, and it’s easy enough to access the benefits of a legal marriage without getting one (for example, we share health insurance). I’ve also read that gender roles that are disadvantageous to women in heterosexual relationships intensify after marriage.
Interestingly, one of his siblings and one of my siblings feel the same way. Their parents are still married, and ours divorced when we were young children.
2
@Allison My husband and I lived together for some years before we married. We married for legal and tax advantages. It cost $25 at City Hall. And it didn't change our relationship at all.
1
Well there you have it. After years of observational conclusions from everyone from social scientists, Dr. Phil the girls on the View and Oprah (not to mention the incessant pot shots from stand up comedians) hard data that shows that a world without men would probably be a whole lot happier.
Until we find a way of making that happen I’ll just focus on not making my wife’s life miserable.
6
@Al No, actually, it shows that a world without women would be better. Either that or world where men are better listeners.
3
"Researchers recently asked three sets of legally married couples — heterosexual, gay and lesbian — to keep daily diaries recording their experiences of marital strain and distress."
And this is cited as research? Research based on a sample of 12 people? Fancy graphs.
All signifying anecdotal, questionnaire findings. Not research, and far from it. This is a disservice to gay and lesbian folks, and an unjustified swipe at hetero-folks.
3
@slowaneasy Three sets doesn't mean 12 people. It means three sets. How many people are in each set isn't in the article.
3
Addendum: in my 14-year marriage, I did 100% of the housework and it was me who left after 3 years of misery, non-existent communication despite my pleas that we talk, for real, "tell me what's in your heart," type of thing, and my wife's penchant for being late and making us miss planes.
Single and glad to be single now! :)
3
The sexism in many of these comments is chilling. I think we aren’t as far along the arc of history as we’d like to believe.
3
It's always "dishes and laundry", the wicked duo of drudgery. Worse, actually, than being shackled in the hull of a slave ship. Two jobs which are done indoors and have been made vastly quicker and easier by machines invented by men.
2
@Charlie L. When I've read online articles like this, the reader comments often indicate that the "housework" men are not doing is largely childcare. Getting up in the night to feed the baby, driving the kids to activities, taking them to the doctor, etc.
1
I'm afraid there's more _advocacy_ in this article than sociological or psychological science. For example, there's a universe of potential distracters in the "are you unhappy" parts of this study, which features self-reporting, not scientific, 3rd party scrutiny. Also, 1/3 of the subjects were recruited by friends -- which is grounds for suspecting bias in the self-reporting.
I've just read much of the study, and done a search for "open marriage," "extramarital sex," "fidelity," and "monogamy." No results. Oh oh. Many gay male couples consider themselves married.. when both partners consent to having frequent extramarital partners. Yet the same is NOT true in heterosexual couples.
This is mostly "happy news" from the same-sex married community. Too bad, this could have been helpful.
2
Of course gay married couples are happier than straight married couples that have children together. I can’t imagine the New York Times publishing a piece that had it any other way.
1
A cartoon , an old couple sitting on a couch. The old man, facing his wife says "I love you, Dear". She replies " I'm tired of you too."
This cartoon belongs to someone. It seems to capture a salient point in this article.
2
I raised my kids and my husband can passed on. married women keep trying to fix me up with "marriageable men". not gonna happen. I'm enjoying my freedom.
5
You are comparing apples to oranges.
3
"If opponents of birth control and abortion continue to gain ground, same-sex parents may find themselves increasingly advantaged in this realm of family life."
If opponents of birth control gain ground and women lose the rights to control their own bodies and sexuality, so too will gays and lesbians lose rights to control their own bodies and sexuality.
It won't matter how good and devoted a parent you are. Society will force folks back into the closet.
These relationships exist on the same continuum .
2
Speaking from experience, I think the author is spot on. Those who continue to frown on gay marriage are living under a rock imho. It’s time for those folks to get their own house in order.
2
I am not a homophobe.
One of my sons is married to a man.
I object to the word "gay" having been usurped from the lexicon in which it was used for centuries. Any book of fiction, from decades or centuries past usually includes multiples references to "gay" as a descriptive word for happiness and such- its intent and real definition. The same is true with the word "pride", and some others.
How or why the same sex movement adopted these and others, is unfair- to those of us, hetero or homo sexual, who wish to use them in their historic, intended contexts.
@fsa Just say "happy" or "joyous" instead.
2
@fsa Are there any other words whose meanings have changed or evolved that you object to in the same way?
4
@fsa
Words do change in meaning over time, but the complete co-option of 'gay' (formerly meaning 'lighthearted, happy') is very unfortunate. When I was young, 'gay' was a not-uncommon first name for girls, and meant 'light-hearted'. No one thought anything of it. But certainly no sane parent would give a child that name now.
There's no going back, but in my mind I do make a distinction, by spelling the variant referring to homosexuals as 'ghey' and pronouncing it with a slight emphasis on 'gh', as in 'ghost'.
I guess one way to assess this is to examine the study's authors' attempts to account for the significant confounding variables inherent in the measurement. As far as I can tell, (something that is quite limited as anyone without institutional access or willing to spend $7 for one article can only read a bare bones abstract), the study is based entirely on self-reported diaries of about 380 couples in gay, lesbian and hetero relationships. I have no clue as to the relative numbers of each group (was it 1/3, 1/3 and 1/3 or in proportion to their numbers in society? If the latter, it would mean that there were about 6 gay male and 10 gay female couples; if evenly split, gay couples would have to be chosen in a significantly different manner), but does anyone think that the gay subject's were naive participants in the study instead of an only recently accepted group that still feels it has something to prove to themselves and society in general. I would also love to know how the study was controlled for children, income and legally merged assets.
Like a lot of such politically loaded "science", it may well be about as reliable as the consensus of a group of friends at an off-campus bar.
3
While reading this I was struck by the likely differences between socioeconomic groups whether straight or gay. Higher earning groups contract out more cleaning, childcare, lawn and outside work. Being able to do that leaves more free time for more recreational opportunities, vacations with/without family. Not every article can explore all nuances but this seems like an important breakdown.
5
My bet is it will even out in the long term. All same-sex spouses grew up thinking that would never be an option. They are probably mostly highly grateful for this and relieved and therefore don't take it for granted. But, at the end of the day, we are all human, and there will be not much difference between the two groups in the long run.
1
My wife and I are celebrating our 41st year of marriage this weekend. I suppose researchers can try to study and prove anything, but one of the things I never thought about in our decades long journey together was how to make our marriage “gayer.” I guess I am not “woke” enough, and, frankly, happy to be half asleep! While there have been many periods of time over 40 years together in which one of us has absorbed a disproportionate amount of tasks that should have been shared, over the long haul, (and that is what marriage is about, isn’t it?) we have found a balance and equilibrium to the demands and joys of entwining our lives together. If that makes our marriage “gayer” in the eyes of some, so be it. I’d rather see our journey as a continuous opportunity to learn, love, and adjust, and change as life unfolds, for better and for worse, with a woman I love and cherish for as long as we shall live.
5
One thing that I think is missing from the house work graphs is how much time does a man and woman that lives alone spend on these tasks. I suspect that on average women spend more time on these tasks even when they live alone. As for happiness, the house work delta may be an irritant, other factors are likely more important.
2
This article misrepresents the findings of the underlying research to which it cites.
The article's abstract claims that a stronger correlation exists between marital strain and personal unhappiness for a heterosexual woman than any other group.
That is a far different statement from claiming that heterosexual women are the most dissatisfied group in marriage.
In fact, the research supports the conservative view that marriage is more meaningful to heterosexual women than to any other group.
If homosexual or heterosexual men less strongly associate their personal happiness with the health of their marriage, it is reasonable to infer that they are regrettably less concerned with the health of their marriage.
5
The NYT recently published an article on the exorbitant costs of fertility treatments and adoption. In reading this article, I’m struck with how the element of socioeconomic status is left out.
The truth is, only gays with significant financial privilege can have kids. The vast majority of gay people do not have children and never will for this reason. Virtually any straight couple regardless of class will be able to make children without spending a penny. Class factors are going to influence how much time one has for their child among many other things.
13
@Sasha Actually, a lesbian can get impregnated without any expense. I've heard of people who used a male friend and a turkey baster.
2
Many years ago my old high school classmate went on to write Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus. I am sure it’s sentiments are now out of style, but it did make a crucial point that there are differences between the way the two (oh, make that whatever number you want now) sexes in the way they view life. Perhaps two people with s shared view are more likely to be compatible living day to day?
4
Among the most common problems different-sex couples have are money, sexual problems and infidelity.
In this article no mention is made of any money issues in same-sex marriages perhaps because both partners usually work. As to the other two, sexual problems and infidelity there is an interesting observation:
" Many gay couples work out detailed agreements about what kinds of sexual contact are permissible outside the relationship, under what circumstances and how often."
This "open marriage" arrangement is seen as exotic by most of those in heterosexual marriages and I would posit will also over time also pose similar strains on same-sex couples.
After all, same-sex marriage has only been legal for five years. There's plenty of time still for these marriages to realize the problems that different-sex couples have as the decades roll by.
4
I’m a gay married 50 something guy.
At no place in this article does it mention the 600,000 people who died of AIDS (a disproportionate number who were gay). An entire generation wiped out or scarred by the devastation.
I spent my 20s and 30s working, avoiding catching HIV. Marriage wasn’t legal.
Perhaps complaining about washing a few dishes just seems like light duty in the scheme of it all.
17
This is fake news.
First, the article makes the mistake of conflating correlation with causality. "Doing the dishes" may correlate with "marital unhappiness," or whatever, but the author doesn't even try to show causality. Couples who share the dish-doing might also enjoy greater wealth creation or longer lives, but that doesn't mean it has anything to do with dishes.
Second, why look at only one household task--one that typically women have been expected to perform? Why not look at lubricating the deadbolts or replacing missing shingles on the roof? Because in fact, the "studies" knew the answer they were seeking before they asked the question. Not exactly scientific.
Third, when you're writing about some group or other, always reverse the order to see how it reads. How about an article entitled "Gay Couples Should be more Hetero" or the like? Immediately the bias becomes clear.
Articles like this encourage right-wing pushback, and for good reason. The articles are biassed, the logic is specious, and the data corrupted.
385
@GP "Correlation is not causation is a good consideration but I most often hear it from amature non-scientists. Did you look at the studies that underpin the results? They often consider a number of factors and identify those which are the most correlated, which and very likely have some influence and causation. Moreover as 40 year old, who has shared a house with roommates since college, I can tell you there are few issues as contentious as dishes.
85
@GP You can look at the hours per week devoted to housework / childcare if you want more extensive studies. Women do more hours, and it increases when they get a male partner sharing the living quarters.
"Fake news" declarations do not support any reality.
PS As a women, I've lubricated the deadbolts - took about 20 minutes, about twice a year.
150
@Dr. M And you nailed it. He would have been better off with stuff like mowing the lawn. It was one thing to expect women to do the dishes when they were home all day while men worked. But these days, most women work , too, and most men haven't caught on to how unfair it is to expect women to do both.
80
What horseradish,
As a former first responder , the most lethal domestic disputes in the NYC police records are between gay men. The generalizations made by Ms. Coontz, are just that. Conflated Generalisations, that follow an obvious PC trail meant to create even more distress in ever increasing polyamorous world . Why must the most private , sacred , part of a relationship be constantly shoved in the publics face ? I am all for everyone to have shared pensions, insurance, whatever. But in return, Could we go back to having ones orientations a private affair?. Legalize everything, but keep it quiet and peaceful so "we" don't have to hear about it every other day.
24
One reason you hear about it every other day is because it’s been in the closet for over 2,000 years!*
So, now it’s like that talking parrot in the room blabbing every three seconds. Eventually it will go down to a normal level, were then, everyone will dwell in the valley of absolute tranquility! ;-)
*Religion is still partially in the closet, waiting for the words they chiseled on granite stones to dissolve away so they can finally feel accepted for who they are.
1
@peapodesque It is an opinion piece and clearly not a straight news article. Also the author doesn't write the headlines at the Times. I'm not sure how this piece relates to the "How to Make Your Marriage Gayer" title. Rather it points out some distinctions between various types of couples.
3
@peapodesque For years I dated a "first responder" myself, who told me that the "most lethal" domestic disputes involved men physically attacking their female associates (wives, girlfriends, daughters, prostitutes, etc.). Maybe things are different in NYC, but I seriously doubt it.
14
In a quick review of the comments it is obvious that some critical thinking is needed. The question is If men spend less time cooking, cleaning, etc. what are they doing? Most everyone knows the answer - they are working or commuting! Where is the chart showing the disparity in this regard?
13
They do point out in one of the graphs that even just comparing non-work hours, straight men spend the least amount of time with their children. In a single income family household, the one partner may work outside the home but the other still works at home. Yet when both are home, it’s usually the straight wife who continues to ‘work’ and not the man, as he finished his. Essentially she ends up with the 24/7 childcare and housework position that gives her burnout and dissatisfaction as much as if his boss kept demanding he stay on-call for emails and work even at home.
17
@Aden Wilke Yes I see that now in the body of the article but not in a chart. Your theory may be right. Here's another thought - maybe the man's exhausted by his job, the commute and the pressure associated with being the sole income provider. In addition he doesn't get a break when the kids are at school.
The upshot is that there are a lot of ways to parse information. Fortunately the Times in this article labels it as an opinion so it is someone's POV and not a straight news piece.
2
Hate to tell you " working and commuting" and "household chores" are not mutually exclusive, as all working women, married or single, parent or not, can show you. When I was married, I got the "I work all day". I guess he forgot I "worked all day" too but somehow was able to manage two pages of chores and tasks too. This ain't the 50's.
13
This article feels cherry picked. It does not reflect what I have observed in the couples around me, especially the younger ones. In response to Blair, correlation versus causality is an important point, it's a mistake often made by professional researchers, it should be considered. I also agree with the other comments that this article makes overly general comments about groups -- I think we call that stereotyping.
2
The unequal sharing of household duties is one reason why so many women don’t pursue top-level and/or leadership roles at work.
If equal division of labor in marriages were more common, gender diversity in C-suite and other demanding top tier career roles would be more common.
4
Is dishwashing really the chore that becomes a marriage deal breaker? I have done the dishes for years...it is my Zen moment...But that chore does not compare to my wife's weekly laundry duty or the myriad other housekeeping tasks---making the bed (I did start doing that two years ago), vacuuming, dusting, picking up, shopping, cooking...And when we had children in the house, wow, I was AWOL --and she had a demanding job on top of it. Hard for me to believe that doing the dishes kept us together for over 50 years...
2
I think the real message here is hetero couples need to be more like gay couples in that they shouldn't get married and have kids if they don't want to be married or have kids.
6
Trying to decide whether to read this article? Trying to figure out if what you read is true? Let me help. This author claims that abortion brings families closer together because they don’t have to deal with unwanted/unintended pregnancies.
3
@Dad W It does.
2
If you study statistics you will quickly learn the data used for same sex couples is not significant and needs to be disregarded. Maybe after 15 or 20 years might the data be significant
3
The problem with opposite sex couples, is that men and women may be lovers, but they are also enemies.
It's a paradox.
1
@Stephen Wow. I don't know whose relationships you've been observing, but that is certainly a very broad generalization! There certainly are such situations, but that is not universal!
2
There is a theory that you should have 3 loves in your life - your first, young, romantic love; the love you have children with and the love you grow old with.
3
Generally, with this type of study, the conclusion happens at the conception of the research idea. The fact is, you can stuff any sized foot into a sock and claim the "facts fit" the desired outcome.
3
The two genders not only have different societal roles, which creates conflict. They are also raised to be very different people, who emote differently, think differently, and react differently to things. In a heterosexual couple, communication is often a problem because of this; also there's the desire to spend time with your "own" ... men bond with male friends, and women with their female friends ... rather than with your mate. In same sex couples, you don't have either of those two problems. Also, gays and lesbians combine more male/female "qualities" than do straight men and women, which results in their being more complete people. The reason why same sex couples feel more satisfied about their partners goes much deeper than the article states. And goes to things which, because it's how we're bred and part of our ego, cannot really be adjusted.
7
So much angst, so little time.
This study is comparing apples to oranges - same-sex marriages are on average between far more non-traditional folk than straight marriages. Finding differences when tradition-bound differences haven't been teased out first is futile.
1
if i understand ms. coontz vague reporting of the main results (paragraph 2), the happiness of M v. W (in descending order) is:
M (+M)
M (+W)
W (+W)
W (+M)
it seems that if happiness and serenity is the criterion then women should stay single and men should stay married. to whom is a secondary issue.
or it may be that a diary study causes men to underreport distress and conflict and/or women to overreport.
to revise para. 3:
"Earlier research had concluded that women in general were likely to report the most relationship distress. But it turns out only that women report more relationship distress, regardless of the relationship."
1
... so now we see what all the propaganda against gay marriage was about: the privileges of men in hetrerosexual marriages to go unexamined and unchanged. Only they are not privileges: it is not a privilege NOT to spend quality time with your child. It is NOT a privilege to have someone care for your emotional wellbeing AND NOT GIVE BACK that same care... It is a kind of personal emotional poverty, and can become a tragedy. Those behaviours are eating away at your marriage these days. There is no way back to the old time religion of the subservient wife in an non-reciprocal contract. And, I fear, that was always the hidden focus when gay marriage was opposed.
I see many very well educated young women struggling for a contract in their heterosexual arrangements that will not severely disadvantage them for their lives in work, career, childrearing and play.
3
@Claudia Fuchs
I appreciate that Germans are blunt and I admire the honesty they exhibit. I also have a German ethnic background, so I will reciprocate:
All your points about issues in male-female relationships may stand, but take care when you state the propaganda against gay marriage was about straight men wanting to maintain their privilege in heterosexual relationships.
That's nonsense.
Everything involving LGBT people is not about straight people and their very real marital problems.
Plenty of straight women were also against same-sex marriage, and fought it based on their own homophobic prejudice. Homophobia was not confined to straight men in traditional marriage arrangements. Some of the most vigorous opponents of same-sex marriage were unmarried priests.
The battle for marriage equality was a battle by LGBT people (and many straight women and men!) against prejudice from (some) straight women and men, not a battle about men retaining unearned power in heterosexual relationships.
You may not actually believe it was really all about straight people and their marriages, but you need to be more careful in choosing your words. Sometimes the simplest and most direct explanation (homophobia) is really the most accurate one.
2
I’m convinced it comes down to this: is your partner a good roommate or a bad roommate?
5
Disclaimer here: not married, no kids. Just an emotionally less-invested observer of a lot of people who are married. Some miserable, some happy. Some LGBT, some straight. Feel free to think I'm a snotty jerk, but consider the point all the same:
Sexism is real, and contributes to marital dissatisfaction. Equal sharing of the "labor of marriage" (in and out of the home, in and out of the workplace) is laudable. I do not question this.
That said, it all gets much, much, MUCH worse when kids are in the picture. If children are not sought and wanted, they are a catalyst for all sorts of misery. For women AND men.
Kids are cute and lovable, but also disruptive, expensive, selfish, loud, and destructive of everything. Everything. Your home, your furniture, your career, your financial security, and your pre-existing relationships will all suffer once you have kids. I have heard it said three moves equal one fire in terms of destructiveness. I think the same ratio applies to children.
What once was just quirky or annoying about your partner may become unbearable once you face the isolation, self-negation (gotta put the children first, and be cheery about it!), career sacrifices, and sleep-deprivation of parenting.
Kids seem to be both the most wonderful and the most terrible things in the world. They are not inherently good, pure people. You have to constantly monitor and restrain them. It's exhausting. Work out your relationship issues before you have them!
9
Would you like to guarantee the marriage and birth rates plunge even lower than they are today? Then go ahead and insist that straight men do more housework.
4
It still is a novelty. Let a few millennia pass and see what happens :-)
4
Yes, maybe, but this essay does not address the gratitude factor.
When you are gay, finding a compatible partner among the < 5% of your peers is a rare event, especially when so many of our institutions are still strongly biased against same-gender encounters. When you are straight, finding a partner among 50% of your peers - so much easier.
I expect that homosexual partners are that much more grateful for their good fortune in finding a mate, and that matters.
3
The secret is to be oppressed, excluded, imprisoned, beaten, killed and banned from marriage for millennia. Straight people should maybe try that.
In my state, Tennessee, Gov. Lee just signed a bill that allows adoption agencies to discriminate against LGBTQ parents. We are so far away from equal rights that articles like this are actually hurtful. Please support real LGBTQ people before trying to use their experiences and stories for your own personal benefit.
4
LGBTQ. T for transgender. GLAAD estimated in 2017 that 3 percent of the U. S. population is transgender. Undoubtedly that number is low when estimating three years later, 2020.
Although the column speaks of "the growing number of gender-fluid people in America," totally left out of the discussion is transgender.
2
I work full time and do about 6 hours a day of housework and child care and my wife is still always mad at me. Didn’t work for me.
5
Having dealt with dozens of divorces by single gender marriages, and FV situations, it is hard to accept the premise of this story.
3
"Notably, however, while the dating relationships of male couples are less stable than those of female-female or male-female couples, their formalized unions are as stable as those of heterosexuals and more stable than formalized female-female unions."
So, the more women in a formalized relationship, the less stable it is?
Ralph Cramden would agree...
2
Similar sensibilities, less clash as to outlook.
2
So men in same sex relationships are doing better than men in heterosexual relationships who are doing the same as women in same sex relationships who are doing better than women in heterosexual relationships.
Clearly men are doing something right and perhaps women should reflect on that.
Since women in same sex relationships are less happy than similar men, the “blame” doesn’t seem to lie with men.
2
Five years of experience with these same-sex relationships is hardly enough to make any meaningful comparison with an institution as old as civilization itself and inherent in civilization's deepest foundations.
This sort of junk social science is no doubt, ultra- fashionable, but it still cannot avoid the contradiction inherent in its subject, namely same-sex "marriage." After all, you can call a cat a dog, but it still won't bark.
2
@Jerry B. Marriage has existed for centuries, but in many different ways. Many different societies and time periods have had different forms of marriage. Including polygamy, polyandry, arranged marriages, etc.
My partner and I don’t have a dishwasher; our deal is that whoever washes the dishes gets a shoulder massage from the other person while they’re washing. There’s always a rush to be first at the sink after dinner. Gay or straight, deals like that make things work.
The day the Chinese/Russians erase all our digital money from our cyber-ledgers and our economy crumbles traditional marriage roles will immediately reassert themselves.
A send of equality. Not a hard secret to guess.
Carl Gustav Jung in Psychologcial Aspects of the Mother Archetype CW 8. pp 85-87
“If we take the concept of homosexuality out of its narrow psychopathological setting and give it a wider connotation, we can see that it has positive aspects as well.... This [homosexuality] gives him a great capacity for friendship, which often creates ties of astonishing tenderness between men, and may even rescue friendship between the sexes from its limbo of the impossible. He may have good taste and an aesthetic sense which are fostered by the presence of a feminine streak. Then, he may be supremely gifted as a teacher because of his almost feminine insight and tact. He is likely to have a feeling for history, and to be conservative in the best sense and cherish the values of the past. Often he is endowed with a wealth of religious feelings, which help him to bring the ecclesia spiritualis into reality, and a spiritual receptivity which makes him responsive to revelation."
1
I can’t read a article based on 3 groups of people keeping diaries. And then claiming it’s official, it’s not. Happiness or as she says “gayness” can not be measured in a study offered like this. And I’ll say one more thing. Maybe just maybe...they lied.
2
This was interesting and brings into focus the arbitrary nature of our modern constructs, such as the single-family dwelling where each "man" is considered a "king," complete with the rights of privacy, inviolability and the inalienable right to be left to his own devices. Is this better than when it took a village? Modern marriage, likewise, is a modern construct, mere steps away from when women were chattel. We take a lot that modernity offers for granted, but the many social ills we are experiencing begs that we look closer and deeper and thus challenge our preconceptions.
1
Ms. Coonz, I believe many gays have a love of arts, theater and open expression. In other words, better actors . Plus there's the psycological factor and insecurity. I.e.,after interviewing many, many candidates, one finaly finds someone who professes 'love'. So, insecure people usually cling rather than go back into a limited pond, and forgive easily and understand promiscuity ,if need ,be to hang on to a love that may be fragile, in the least.Plus, often the pressure of not having kids may make any relationship less strained and grant more time to express mutual affections.People who compliment each other rather than mirror each other would be the ideal. And when I say "Compliment' I don't mean "You look fabo, Darling".
3
They make more money and don’t have kids. Simple.
4
I'm alone today because I was born in an era when women were told to consider being their own person and men wanted me to be their princess, slave, sex toy, and mother to their children. I never found my Martin Ginsberg. RBG is the luckiest woman alive to have found such an accepting, supportive spouse. Sometimes I wish I were lesbian because they seem to find better partners.
11
Interesting, but you can’t trust daily diaries, self reporting.
Could be gay couples trying to show gay marriage is great.
Could be heterosexual couples using it to vent.
Could be lots of things.
But when you ask people to self report, you aren’t getting real objective data.
3
Below is link to research by a very famous marriage researcher Dr. John Gottman that directly refutes this thesis suggested by Ms. Coontz. He reports no difference in satisfaction between gay and heterosexual couples.
Gottman's work is peer reviewed (Journal of Homosexuality) and his academic reputation is outstanding.
https://www.gottman.com/about/research/same-sex-couples/
1
This in but one in a number of articles that seek to impose a preposterous world view. Gay marriage varies, most likely, in the same way straight marriage does. It hasn’t been legal all that long. Let’s do this again in 5 millennia. Maybe the article will read “make your gay marriage a little straighter,” who knows?
1
I found the first couple charts confusing. They don't seem to make the point the caption says they are making.
1
Good morning, fellow readers. So this is one of those absurdly naive NY Times essays that begs contra-analysis and critique, but hey, readers, we're talking love here. Let's not get petty. After all, the author's ultimate message is a common-sensible one: "All of us — heterosexual, gay or lesbian — face obstacles in figuring out how to replace traditional gender and marriage rules that frustrate our modern values while updating those that are still useful. And what works for some relationships will not work for others."
Now who could possibly argue with something as anodyne as that? And one either credits the love, be it the gay marriage type, the hetero type, or some blend or unique variant, etc. etc., or else you're a dinosaur unprepared for this millennium. IMHO. Enough said. The chattering class has nothing better to do than to debate what types of marriages are more likely to succeed than others, I got no problem with that.
I'm thrilled that the Gottman and Levenson study got these results. I am equally certain that another study might have yielded contrary results. So what? With you-know-who in the White House and the existential threat to our Nation and our Republic that he seems to represent, if these are the sorts of problems that animate East Coast elites on a given Valentine's Day Weekend, well, gosh then, God bless 'em, I say, God bless 'em.
1
@Carl D.Birman
I have conducted many studies and have found to no one surprise that gay people are just better at everything. It’s a fact.
2
This op-ed should be titled “How to Make a Marriage More Balanced”, if there wasn’t suppose to be any political agenda as an underlying factor, but the climate of making everything political is not only tiresome, but nonproductive.
3
I don't even need to read this article to know the difference. Men and women can be so vastly different in so many ways it just stands to reason that in the way men are the same or in the way women are the same it would act as a catalyst for same sex relationships.
I can't recall which comedian once said something to the effect that he couldn't understand why people upset with gay marriage wouldn't want gay people to get married so they could be as miserable in marriage as straight folk!
As a straight man, I totally understand the upsides to what a gay relationship would be like.
There are upsides and downsides to everything. I just don't understand why the straight folk are just so scared all the time. Stop being scared.
I would so wish some gay folk would move into my neighborhood, would class the area up.
Nobody no where has EVER complained about a gay couple bring down property value. Wonderful people.
2
Possibly it has to do with the fact that gay marriages haven't existed for very long. There is the "honeymoon effect", you know.
Perhaps same sex couples are happier because they have no children to care for and therefore less housework.
1
All the news that is fit to print? This headline is off putting. Why not write “more equitable” or “more satisfying” or “more enjoyable”? And, frankly, I disagree. I know several gay couples who are in dissatisfying relationships for various reasons. Gay people are just like you and me.
2
It’s been legal across the country for nearly five years now, and same-sex marriage hasn’t yet killed heterosexual marriage. In fact, it appears that many different-sex couples would have happier and more satisfying marriages if they took a few lessons from their same-sex counterparts.
Like...Dah!!
For the record...I'm 1/2 of a cohabiting couple, and I'll note, how, since 1983, (when we met), the earth remains in the firmament, Republicans continue to be their religio_sexist selves, etc....
Despite all the 'end-of-the-world, or-humanity, or some, such' verbalized by the Holy_Rollers!
3
Same-sex couples have fewer kids. Kids, negatively affect happiness in a marriage. Case closed. The rest is verbiage.
2
For a bit of perspective: my immediate experience is that gay couples divorce just as frequently. Within my immediate circles of acquaintance, in fact, there are more lesbian couples than heteros who are divorced and are engaged in those very mainstream,miserable, anguished struggles over custody, visitation and parenting disputes. Guess we're all just people.
2
Being married for many years to my husband, I value most our creativity, respect for our creative careers, ability to listen to each other, constant looking for the next exciting projects. Yes, we argue, we have had great and bad days, but the bond between us that brought us originally together, to see each other as two talented, curious individuals, has carried us through life. We had and raised our children, moved to new places, survived unexpected (health) challenges. Long term marriage is a hard work and requires commitment from both sides. Similarly happiness must come from within, some people are blessed with natural appreciation for life, most must try their best to learn, even in small steps, that happiness if often a decision.
1
This is fascinating, I am curious about what the research says about second or third marriages, I am on my third and after 25 years of marriage the third time is the charm!
Third? Gotta give it to you. After 25 yrs in one, I had enough. I am enjoying every single minute of "let's play but you go home afterwards" as I am not willing to spend the rest of my life "mothering" again.
Ah the solution to heterosexuality and any associated malaise is that you must become gay. Only in true capitulation to queerness will you ever find bliss. You hetero-normal people will never be happy so the study says. Give up now. Divorce or break up your opposite sex partner and start anew. Joy awaits for sure, so say the scientist for they are the orthodoxy, the adjudicators of the truth.
2
Awesome.
Children would be a lot better off if everyone were gay, clearly. Right?
1
Maybe gay marriage is happier simply because social convention of straight marriage is misery-inducing. Literally everyone my age (30’s) that I know either got married in their early twenties and are now divorced, on a second marriage, a few are on a third, or they are still married and miserable.
Recently I had the extreme displeasure of reconnecting with my college sweetheart, who, six months after I broke off our engagement, got married. My friends told me he even gave her the same engagement ring he’d given me LOL. And that’s basically all you need to know about this guy. Well. That marriage didn’t last because he’s a big selfish jerk, and he was in a long term relationship with this woman when he and I reconnected. Good for him. But wait, there’s more! I got a birds eye view of what a bullet I dodged as she dumped him, only for him to turn around and marry someone else within six months. Cray cray. He will be on wife #3 by the end of the decade. Because immature people follow patterns.
So I think many problems heterosexual marriages experience have to do with getting married way too young, or to the wrong person, just because society expects it. If I hadn’t ignored convention and broken off my young engagement, I’d be divorced and trying to co-parent with a manbaby. I truly do pity the people my age who have to deal with ex husbands and ex wives. Society will really put the screws to you if you let it.
2
Marriage among heterosexuals who are of the same race is routine and expected, with the full weight of the culture behind the culture it seems less risky; nobody thinks twice about it, and people make impulsive and often unwise choices in partners.
By contrast, a mixed race marriage, just like same-sex marriage, is generally more serious and requires more commitment, given that society at large doesn't give full approval. The INTENT is greater, with more serious choices, therefore greater success.
3
I am five years into a same-sex marriage. We have the worst times when we try to impose some 'traditional' marriage concepts or impose anything on each other without agreement.
When we make commitments, agreements and draw boundaries - respect them. If those aren't working respectfully re-negotiate.
When there is a healthy balance of commitment to our agreements with personal freedom to learn and grow as individuals, we seem to get along much better.
2
While this study echoes what has been assumed to be true for ages though not held up to the rigors of a randomized control study, there are clear areas that this article negates to mention. The role of class is erased from the conversation. One cannot begin to compare lesbian and gay male couples without this lens. The financial picture of dual-earner couples comprised of two cisgender men compared to cisgender women look significantly different. An intersectional perspective needs to be analyzed before anyone can take these results seriously.
2
Many gay men in long term relationships exists in a sexless bond despite an emotional commitment. Many gay men have sex outside the relationship. I don't believe this is a comparable situation to the needs and expectations of straight women. Of course many people of a politically correct mindset will probably say there is no difference between men and women, but if one wants to get lost in that fantasy, so be it.
There's also a slight bit of offense in the presumptions presented here. Many heterosexual couples are bound to marry by convention, to please family, to join the herd. I've many times had friends say, "everyone is getting married..." Approaching 40, many people, men and women jump into a marriage with anyone just so they won't be alone. This is why divorce rates are high. Gay operates differently, and men, gay men more evidently, are willing to create bonds based on things other than sexual monogamy. I can't imagine nor do I think it's feasible that a woman would go along with that. The comparisons presented here are based in a feminism that overlooks reality.
5
My husband and I have been married for 52 years, and over the years, we have split things that need to be done by what each of us does better at--or what we don't like to do. I grocery shop, decide what we'll have for dinner, and then cook. I love this work. But he washes up. I wash the laundry; he folds (better than I do) and puts the clothes away. I make the bed--my standards are exacting, and his are slapdash. Who does more?Who knows? Works for us this way.
6
"Gay men, said Professor Umberson, are more “low-key” than women, offering emotional and instrumental care to a partner when it is clearly needed, instead of treating it as a routine obligation."
I'd say it's true of straight men as well, explaining much of the difference in care giving time.
3
My therapist remarked at the beginning of my marriage over seven years ago that as a gay couple, aside from some of the obvious disadvantages, we had some advantages over different sex couples. There were few public examples of what our marriage was ‘supposed’ to be like and we also couldn’t model our marriage on a, then, traditional straight marriage. We needed to, in a sense, invent anew our married relationship. This enabled us to contour our marriage to us as individuals and not force us to conform ourselves into previously expected roles.
Given that our marriage is not perfect, I find that we have a good chance at resolving our differences by coming at them as individuals not as roles.
4
This article explains why evangelicals oppose gay marriage. They may rely on a few sentences in the Bible to clothe their arguments (marriage is between a man and a woman) but it is really their reliance on the Bible to justify the dominant male/submissive wife relationship. Of course, this is not solely the provenance of evangelical Christianity. There are many religious and non-religious institutions that have searched for and found convenient rationalizations to preserve male dominance over women.
10
Accepting diversity can challenging, which is one of the reasons straight couples struggle more.
The article seems to assume that same-sex couples and straight couples are the same except for their configuration. Many same-sex couples go through a lot of hurdles in society to get to the place where they marry against former tradition. Wouldn't a more balanced comparison be between a heterosexual couple and two straight same-sex people who live together? Afterall, very few people would argue that gay men and straight men in general are exactly the same individually, right? So, they bring all of who they are to their relationships. It would make sense then that same-sex people might find a partner who is more like minded. And that is not necessarily better; it just tends to be different from the straight pathway. In my heterosexual marriage, we brought our histories with us and some of them were steeped in expectations based upon our parents' traditional views, and changing them over time was challenging. While our differences probably did lead to more conflict, it also made us strong and helped each of us appreciate our diversity.
1
As a divorced single heterosexual mom evaluating long term relationships I think gay partnerships seem to being doing it right.
The communication factor and handling conflict is much more critical than doing the dishes and care giving. This is coming from someone who had a husband who did the Target runs and whole(!) house cleaning. The open communication about sexual preferences also is key.
However, the one area this article I think was a real miss: the commitment piece. For years gay couples could not marry. They choose to be together, everyday. For an open minded news source, would really liked to have seen this angle addressed.
Thank you for bringing this topic to the surface. We can all learn from each other.
6
I noticed that at least one commenter below brought up the issue of work, but it seems a big miss to not include in any discussion about distribution of labor and power dynamics in a couple the issue of money. We continue to live in a world where men are disproportionately rewarded for work outside the home, which then gives them an advantage in relationship power. That greater financial advantage may serve to reinforce traditional divisions of labor in opposite sex couples in a way it does not in same sex couples. In my experience watching opposite sex couples this power dynamic is often the unsaid element in any discussion about relationship roles, household decisions, and whose POV merits greater consideration in discussions. It would have been interesting to see how work and financial position weighed in here, but until women and men are on equal financial footing I’m not expecting true equality in their relationships.
8
Many women want to marry men more financially successful than they are, some women don’t even want to work. Ensuring a household financial stability is a HUGE responsibility, and of course the person in charge has the most power.
@J English
Women have more power and earn more money in the work place than ever before, but statistically have never been more unhappy. Obviously money is not the issue. Maybe it’s time to stop judging the value of everything in terms of money.
1
Unfortunately, heterosexual stereotypes still prevail in family court. It is still assumed, barring some extraordinary circumstance (say alcohol or drug abuse), that child custody will go to the mother. And even then it's a 50/50 call.
1
Interesting article. I'd be interested to know however whether and to what agree the data is statistically significant or otherwise scientifically supported. The data is entirely based on self-reported diary entries evaluated by procedures that aren't explained. Seems like there's at least some reasonable basis to question the results objectivity and lack of bias.
6
Feminism and modern society devalue childcare and housework. But someone has to do it. Whoever is stuck with it will inevitably feel some resentment.
7
Nobody devalues housework and childcare, as a woman who works, I can tell you that the few days I take off from work at times to catch up on household chores seems like a vacation to me... folding laundry while watching Netflix with a nice cup of coffee... so I certainly don’t pity women who don’t work. If you are well organized, you can get your house well organized and have plenty of free time!
1
@MoonCake
As someone who used to work and is now the primary caregiver to two small children, I can tell you that folding laundry for yourself and raising children are two completely different things- which you will surely figure out if and when you have kids.
3
@Greg
She'll figure it out the first time Dear Toddler grabs that nice cup of coffee and dumps it all
over her clean laundry . . . .
1
You cannot take a very small percentage of the population (gay married couples) and compare it to the population as a whole. I will offer another data point: My wife and I have been married for 40 years, have two adult married children. We have "never" missed going to Sunday Mass and neither do our married children.
4
Actually you can compare a small sample to the whole population. What you cannot do is get your individual experience and extrapolate to everyone else. If you don’t like their sample size then do a study with a larger one.
13
@Mark Precisely - this data for all its scientific veneer, is highly misleading and poorly sanitized for reliability.
For another example besides small percentage of gay couples period, there is also the fact that a very small percentage of gay couples have gone to the trouble to have children. Naturally they are going to be invested in a different way.
1
It is a good article about an interesting study. One thing I would like to have seen in the study would be how the outcomes would vary with a) income/wealth of the couples and b) educational level. I suspect that you will find that the same sex male couples would more often have higher income/wealth than the male-women or women-women couples. That as a variable could go a long way to explain some of the results, but maybe not all of them.
15
There are plenty if reputable studies out there about sthe socio-economic and educational characteristics of same sex couples.
The thing that got me in this article was the 3 hours a day the gay male couples spent on childcare. Who can do that? Folks with time and money. The financial and socio-economic piece is critical. Living in NYC for many years and now in Toronto, the vast majority of gay male couples with children I know are not just financially stable but often quite wealthy. It is expensive to adopt or to hire a surrogate (as the NYT’s recent articles on the subject show). White collar professional men tend to be better paid than women across fields, and may also be happier, more satisfied, and have higher levels of self-fulfilment and confidence as a result. Consider the situation for many women in comparison.
1
Why do I have a feeling it is going to be straight people who have the biggest problem with this article? As a straight person, I often think my friends who are in same-sex relationships are happier and the relationships last longer because there is more equity in the relationship. Because there is an imbalance in the gender dynamics of our culture I think that can translate into relationships. Not always but often I think it does.
20
It seems to me that a lot of straight couples don’t like doing things with each other. Each has their own set of friends and interests.
My husband and I have been together for 14 years, we spend pretty much every minute together and have no friends. It’s paradise.
9
I have seen my share of "every minute together" hetero relationships. He is happy, she is miserable. Co-dependency is not a healthy relationship state.
2
As a gay couple together for over 20 years we are more traditional. My partner loves doing housework - cooking, taking care of pets and managing the house. I like to get out, explore the city, do business and meet with friends. But I always rush home because we never tire of each other.
The first 5 years of our relationship we spent every day, all day and night together. When I travel for business I get done quickly and rush home to be by his side. And as crazy as it sounds he's happy to have me, even if I'm banned from the kitchen (I'm not even allowed to do dishes).
Similar to another couple here, I know that everything he does for us he does with love and contentment. I am the earner without an ounce of concern about money sharing. He spends what he wants and is more frugal than I. We've had lean times and flush times but money has never been an issue between us.
What sums us up is that we are perpetually in giving mode to each other instead of taking. It's all in the gift of giving and receiving with gratefulness. Too many relationships are about what people want themselves, which usually leads to broken expectations, and self-centered arguments. Finally, there is no one I respect more. We say thank you, please, and are kind to each other. We show respect for each other in private as well as in public. It's painful seeing a couple ridicule each other and be disrespectful.
Love should overshadow everything because not much else matters.
44
The study that leads off this piece is based on 10 days of diary entries analyzed using "Multilevel modeling". Other studies that are linked contain meta-analysis of surveys of varying aspects. Little is given on what criteria is used or how conclusions are drawn.
This article appears to layer subjective reasoning while attempting to give the appearance of scientific objectivity. To create a story line meant to be beneficial, it instead steers toward an advocacy piece using the authority of science, but in name only. The real question is; who gave the article that title? If data showed an opposite outcome, I would hope a similar title would be left behind with the snickers.
Lastly, after decades of ideological driven abuse of science to demean LGBT+ people, my temperament is frayed enough to question all attempts to science storylines on these issues.
22
These are all valid points, but the expectations for a journalistic article are different than a scientific one. The NYT piece merely describes the results of a few papers and it doesn’t go overboard saying that this is the absolute truth and we should all accept it. Like every thing else in science more data is needed. That said this was a good start
4
There is a r"review of literature" research paper.
This is a broad comparison article. It does help explain the heterosexual marriage dynamics if it’s built on traditional values & perspectives. It should be near a 50/50 in child & household responsibilities.
There was study on male/male marriages & why they were unstable & eventually dissolved with a 5 year time frame. The catalyst centered around non-monogamy. This isn’t the secret to keep gay couples together like this article suggests. Within 2-3 years, couples agreed to be in an open relationship within 1-2 years, despite open rules & conditions, mistrust ensued dissolving the relationship. This seemed more prevalent in gay couples over heterosexuals & lesbians.
3
Marriages are dynamic. They evolve over time. They involve two people who, if they are truly in it for the long haul will eventually wake up one morning to discover that the person next to them is not quite the same person they courted 30 years earlier.
Marriage really takes work and doing the dishes is the easy part. That person you fell in love with because of his wonderful smile, fidelity, sense of humor and the great breakfasts he made for the two of you on Sunday mornings, after 20 years may become unbearably distant as he becomes more burned out at his job and your entire lives seem to revolve around the demands of your 12 year old special needs son and his angry rebellious 16 year old sister. Grandpa is getting dementia and grandma just broke her hip. Over time restorative pre-sleep intimacy and pillow talk becomes a daily late night business meeting with a million issues to “discuss”. Wife wants to travel through Europe in July, husband wants a cottage at a lake in Maine where he can just kick back and do nothing. Dealing with these sorts of demands and pitfalls developing work-arounds is truly an art and takes much work both. Practice hard while you’re young.
The best advice I’d give is to try to every day, treat that person as though every anniversary they will get a chance to exercise a “get out of the marriage...no strings attached...no hard feelings” option. Respect your spouse as a unique individual and never take them for granted
25
@Woodson Dart My husband and I have been together for 47 years. Neither of us has changed much. I think not having kids is the secret.
Interesting. My ex-wife and I shared houehold responsibilities, and most of our acquaintances would freely say that the bulk soon fell on my shoulders as she built an impressive academic career and cv while I took care of our children while she traveled for work, took on many voluntary committee assignments, and complied with arbitrary class schedules. All while I built a less-profitable but steady and fulfilling career after helping her earn her doctorare.
Yeah, I was surprised when she said she left me because I could never support her and she informed me that she has been in a relationship with a former doctoral student she hopes will be promoted to general.
10
There is nothing here about men in straight couples being expected to be the sole or primary earner. According to a Pew survey of 2016, more than 70% of men in straight couples were the sole or primary earner. The percentage went up among upper middle class straight couples. Other surveys have shown that the EXPECTATION that the man will be the sole or primary earner is higher than 70%. Educated straight women still consider a man's ability to support her an important criterion in selecting a mate. Of course, under these circumstances, women in straight couples still do most of the work at home. When my wife was pregnant, she was asked by everyone at work whether she would continue in her position once the baby came, or become a SAHM. Not one person asked me if I would be leaving work. Not one. As long as women are raised to believe it is ok for them to be financially dependent on a man, women will not be perceived as equally committed to the world of paid work, and pay disparities will continue. Of course, gay couples have an advantage right from the start in that the expectation of who will be the sole or primary earner cannot be gendered.
23
Yes and no. I don’t know many women nowadays who want, much less like, depending on a man to provide for them, but there is a few reasons why your wife was asked if she was returning to work and not you. After growing a child for nine months, giving birth, and potentially breastfeeding for months, it’s a little tougher on the woman than the man to get back to a career. It’s not that women were raised to depend on men; it’s that society gives very little in the way of support to mothers who want to contribute or support themselves.
17
@LN I'm afraid that argument is not supported by the research. Many more women, particularly educated women, choose a male partner based on his ability to support them financially. The eagerness for financial dependency begins long before the need for breast feeding. Women need to come clean on this, or risk having little credibility in the equality debate: Of course many women prefer to stay home and parent. It's a much better time than the grueling hours in a cubicle, with deadlines, harsh bosses, and office politics. Many men would much rather spend less time at work and more time parenting, too. They can't. Women assume the choice to work or parent is a choice that is theirs alone. Men are given no choice but to work. It is for this reason men are seen as more committed to the role of worker, paid more, and promoted more. Fair? No. But neither is it fair that women contribute substantially to the pressure on men to be earners in life and little else.
2
Much better time? I just returned to work (senior role at a tech company) after the birth of my second, and the office is a vacation compared to childcare.
2
Women on dating sites seem to have a checklist for a husband (height, hair, job, college name, social connections). They never seem to care about compatibility. Men tend to hook-up for lust and to marry/nest for compatibility. Very desirable men know they can have a compatible wife and lustful affairs.
I do online dating. I like to list my hobbies, interests, favorite books, favorite movies, etc.. I see women saying "why do men talk so much about hobbies and favorite music? Retain some mystery, guys." The impression I get is that women are not looking for compatible mates. They are looking for status-y mates or mates who give them a romantic feeling. Romantic feelings are terrific.But women seek to be actively looking for mystery and mystique. they say they want men who "keep them on their toes" and "keep them guessing." I see those exact phrases. Keep them guessing? That's more like a honeymoon than a marriage.
11
Sounds more like a blind date than a honeymoon to me.
1
"Same-sex spouses feel more satisfied with their partners than heterosexual ones."
Stated carefully, this would read "Statistically, same-sex spouses express more satisfaction with their partners than heterosexual ones express."
But there are many possible reasons for this difference that seem unrelated to actual levels of satisfaction. One is that same-sex marriage has been legal only five years across the entire U.S., while hetero married couples have often been married much longer. Another is that same-sex partners choose each other from a much smaller pool of potential partners, so they may be less likely to be dissatisfied. for that reason. There may be other (statistical) differences between same-sex and hetero couples that play a role as well.
With so many possible reasons for the observed differences, it may be premature to assume there are actual differences between the two groups in the inherent levels of dissatisfaction with their partners.
11
Also, I would expect that hetero couples engage in child-rearing more often than same-sex couples do. If that is the case, it's well-known that much tension between partners arises from the stresses of child-rearing. So this could well be another explanatory factor.
23
As a life coach - the real kind - for more than 24 years - I can assert with no qualms, that the elements of a healthy, mature, evolving, intimate, interdependent and enjoyable relationship are the same...regardless of sexual orientation.
Whole-hearted acceptance - no fixing, rescuing, saving, "leading them to Jesus," or "making them the best they can be" allowed - and that's just the starting point.
It actually gets a bit more challenging from there.
The rest - all we read about, ask our gurus about, buy gadgets for - is nonsense.
Love is about seeing more of you, being more of you, and learning about love.
It's not just about "love." It's about learning...how to love well.
The context of the relationship is of little or no significance.
We just like to make it complicated so we don't have to face the reality - and responsibility - of learning to love well.
10
I kept looking for some differentiation in this article between those of us who stay at home and mothers who work as much as their husbands, or who work part-time. I didn’t see it. Of course I do more housework...it’s my 9-5 gig. My husband works like crazy so I have the option to stay home. I’ll homeschool our four kids and eventually get a job again but am in no hurry. Believe it or not some women actually prefer childcare and housework over a grinding commute, a boss and a paycheck. I get tired of society treating my full-time job as something so tedious no one spouse should be saddled with too much of it.
35
That’s a LOT of statistics in the article! I think harmony in the household comes from acceptance of roles by each partner and not judging whether one or the other has the easier role.
10
The author defines housework as “the numbing work that must be done each day”. That’s quite opinionated. It’s really all about your attitude to work. Homemaking and child rearing are very honorable duties and people need to stop disrespecting this work.
3
There are no reliable references. What is the number of couples who participated-One of the articles cited involved 4 couples-which is a meaningless number
17
What's their secret?
It's no secret, really, but many of us don't want to admit it: men and women have less in common than men have with men and women have with women. We're just far more compatible with our own sex ... except for that sex thing, if you're heterosexual.
Before divorce became as acceptable as it is today, marriages held together mostly through a combination of lower expectations, societal pressure and grit. Once our expectations were raised (mostly through the media), society (including many religious groups) backed off condemning splits, and we became soft, all bets were off.
6
@Sixofone actually, I'm a straight, 58-year-old woman who tends to be more "compatible" with men as friends. That's not always the case, but in general (unless the man is a sports-junkie, which I'm decidedly not), I find that I have more in common, more to talk about, with men. And frankly, I trust them more--again, in general. That's just me. I've known wonderful, caring, and trustworthy women, and terrible, manipulative men. And vice versa, definitely. But I find that with men it's easier to discern which is which than I do with women, and sort out the wheat from the ones who will stab you in the back down the road.
In general, however, I prefer to choose my companions based on the individual, rather than on generalizations about the supposed universal characteristics of gender, race, sexual orientation, etc.
And yes, I do realize that I'm kind of talking out of both sides of my mouth here. I'm only relating my personal life experience thus far.
8
@NGB
Same here, I'm as hetero as can be but have always preferred male company. I have a few good female friends but we don't spend a lot
of time together or do traditional 'girl stuff' (shopping, etc). The thought of spending long periods of time (like a whole day !) with a big group of women is really not appealing to me.
As a gay married man with two kids (1 & 4 year olds) I must say that the article is spot on. Our children go to day care and, in my observation, the dads are hardly present in the hetero families. We only see the mothers attending many of the events. It almost feels that moms are raising the kids for the most part alone. I am part of the PTA and most conversations, when not speaking about school issues, are about how tired they are and how their husbands are so busy and they only look forward to their children going to sleep so that they can have a break.
22
The secret is children. Gay couples choose to have kids. Straight couples, less so. Both have the ability to choose, but only one has the ability for accidents. Having kids, especially unexpectedly, would could decrease happiness or increase stress. Write this article after you have accounted for that.
20
One of the classic findings in marital research is Mary Anne Fitzpatrick's work showing that heterosexual couples with traditional values were more satisfied than those with non-traditional values including women who do not take their husband's last names. Traditional values including a traditional view of gender roles is consistent with men helping out in the home as much as possible and yes doing the dishes, as in our home.
Couples with non-traditional values are constantly negotiating over roles in Fitzpatrick's well known research which creates much greater potential for conflict.
Maybe heterosexual couples do not need to emulate gay marriages, but just need to practice traditional heterosexual roles and values.
5
@Dan Really? My husband and I have nontraditional values, and I kept my own name. We've been together for 47 years and haven't renegotiated our roles, or our basic agreement to share everything 50-50.
11
@Dan
What year was Fitzpatrick's work published and where? Since you call it "classic", I would guess it was quite a long time ago. This is important as it was not socially acceptable until recently to complain about these things or indeed about traditional gender roles. People used to be very reluctant to admit they were struggling in their marriages and why, as that would make them seem like failures in the eyes of society, and likely in their own eyes. People, and especially women, are much less reluctant to speak their mind about what's NOT working in their marriage nowadays.
4
It would be a cold day in hell when I feel I should give up MY actual name for someone else’s. I can remember thinking even as a child what a ridiculous concept that was and I could not imagine doing it and still cannot.
1
I’ve been married for almost 36 years to a wonderful man. He does the dishes, has tended our dog(s), takes out the trash, does all of the laundry, and does all of the heavy gardening work.
But I do most of the shopping, all of the cooking, and manage our finances, from our investments to bill-paying. I am also the tech guru, relied upon to deal with any sort of issue from internet connections to cell-phones.
We didn’t have children, so that hasn’t figured into the equation.
I finally hired a once a month housecleaner, some decades ago, to keep the house vaguely clean (thankfully we’re both reasonably tidy), after my hubbie’s house-cleaning tendencies were not adequate. (He claimed he would do it).
I was NOT going to do that, too, as my allergies to dust and aversion to vacuuming took precedence.
Whether this is an equal distribution of tasks, well, it depends on one’s point of view.
I’m trying to bring my hubbie up to speed on finances and cooking, in case something unexpected happens to me!
7
We’ve been married for 46 years. When I cook (often, but not exclusively) I clean as I go. When it comes to after dinner, I just move the dishes to the counter. Why? Virtually every time I put dishes in the dishwasher, my wife reorganized them. I was willing to run it with some spaces, she is not.
Several years ago she told me, look, just bring the dishes to the counter, I like to put them in the dishwasher. Fine. If that’s what you want, that’s what I will do.
She likes to do her things her way, I like to do mine, mine. When I cook, I clean as I go along. When she cooks, she cleans after. When it comes to loading the dishwasher, that is her puzzle to solve.
12
My husband and I have lived together for 47 years. He has always done half the housework and cooking. I have always refused to be a housewife, so him taking half that responsibility has been essential to our happiness. Also, we're much happier because we've never had children. Less stress, more time, more money, more freedom.
9
@Frances Grimble
Our child is a joy to us.
The saying was, “If you loved them at 10, you will love them at 20.” True, but another truth came by, and “30 is the new 20” operates.
Since she is now 35, we just love her to pieces, and she us.
"I wish I had a wife" has become common parlance among married heterosexual professional women. It goes straight to the point. Wives still take on a disproportionate share of household and child care and social planning duties, whether or not they are employed outside the home. Women who "stay home" are stereotyped as spoiled slackers. Household and child care duties seem to be considered as "not real" unless you are the one doing them.
16
As far as gay marriage goes, depending on how you feel about yourself being attracted to your own gender plays a big part. In the 70's when I came out very young when the gay movement was gaining steam, a lot of us looked around and noticed how easy it was for us, not just for sex, but all of it. Compared to our straight male friends who were plunging into matrimony with the opposite gender they often felt like strangers to.
I've listened to straight guys all my life go on about how baffled they were with women in general, and they had so much to learn, etc
With the gay men and women I came of age with it seemed significantly different. We already kind of knew what we were getting into. In the case of many men, including myself, the majority of our socialization throughout our lives may have been predominantly with other men. Obviously, not always in an out mode, but we were used to physically and socially being around what we desired sexually and romantically. It can actually be easier for us on some counts. In the gay men's community you'll find the entire spectrum on that one. Not all gay men are real comfortable with straight men but a lot of us generally are. It's just what we know. Different, but the same.
5
This is a serious article, and thanks to NYT for publishing it, but why was it given such a frivolous headline?
4
I imagine every generation thinks it has invented some new social contract. I thought the same thing in 1975. Notwithstanding that society does change I get the impression that younger readers will imagine that in earlier times (60's, 70's) most couples had non egalitarian relationships. My parents, born in the 1930's, both worked outside the home and shared domestic duties. My wife and I (both 66 and married for 45 years) share all responsibilities with certain apparent gender normative skills implemented ( is financial acumen, house organization, gardening or gourmet cooking and knitting male or female? Does it matter who does what as long as each individual individual feels fairly treated and is satisfied?) I guess I am revelling in the luck of a good friendship but I dare say this could be marriage from 2020.
3
The main emotional tasks for men is to control their aggression and sexual drive. The main emotional tasks for women are to control their emotions and tendency toward dissatisfaction with men.
13
You are describing men as semi-evolved creatures and yet claim have a "tendency" to disatisfaction? Any more evolved creature will be dissatisfied with less evolved one not because of a tendency but because it is mighty annoying for the more evolved one.
1
Of course gay parents spend more time with their children: their children were hard-won. Gay parents have the most "wanted" children! No surprise there whatsoever.
51
After reading the comments, I see the author made many grave biases, assumptions, and dare I say, Errors! (there! I said it, I judged the author -- my gawd! How evil!)
Doing research and finding conclusions in social sciences are VERY DIFFICULT. On the other hand it's TOO EASY to assume, and find false conclusions. A person making these has no way to know whether they've made a mistake or not. Review by informed others, is essential.
This author also seems to believe that a relationship is about what one person wants, or what each person wants. It is not. I believe it is about what BOTH (all?) people want to compromise on, and not compromise on. It is about finding common compromises, and keeping them.
The author claims, "when an American woman married, her husband took charge of her sexuality"... implying men want to control women. This is very wrong. Does a woman take charge of her husband's sexuality? This author is implying that people should be able to cheat, while in a relationship. This is nonsense.
It seems that in today's society, the #MeToo movement was taken over by "hurt, aggrieved, and anti-male" women. Most men are not the problem. There are some/few men who are bad/criminal, just as there are some/few women who are bad/criminal.
Men and women do not have different brains. Each sex has identical brains -- and our (common) brain is equally bad/criminal. And equally good/safe.
To assume that men are bad, is ripping apart our society and relationships.
13
It is not they are bad. Its is that American straight males are badly socialized for relationships. Raised on sex and violence by women stuck in the 50's makes for really lousy husbands.
How about us single mothers doing it all, don't we deserve a mention here? Boring and not inclusive to our situations at all.
13
I’m a 61 yr old Female, the Husband a 61 yr old Male. And we’ve had lesbian Bed Death for Years. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. We’re tired and depressed, Check the address.
Seriously.
10
If feel so badly for the poor heterosexuals trapped in monogamous marriages.
You can keep Netflix - nothing is quite as entertaining as inviting a handsome stranger into our home, and watching as he partakes of my beautify hubby.
More popcorn, please!
9
@Adam - Ah, the simple pleasures of gay life:))
@Adam
That is not my idea of entertainment. If you want that, then WHY are you married?
@Adam
Louisiana, my, my... I had no idea.
1
While this article makes some interesting points, to claim any substantial results from a study involving only six couples is absurd to the point of irrelevance. One can only assume bias or surmise in lieu of fact on the part of the researchers and the author. Bad science. Bad journalism.
18
I am a heterosexual man, happily married twice,happy father, but also divorced twice !!!, but still, I just love the company of women.
In fact I even have this fantasy that I wish I had been a women so I could have one as a homosexual partner.
But I must be prejudiced because, eventhough I have very close male homosexual friends, I would never dream of having a male partener;
Weird?
1
Just don’t have kids
14
The secret: they're the same sex.
5
beyond ridiculous.
6
Control for monogamy?
1
What a silly article. Gays have only been allowed to marry for five years now. Most of us had happy marriages at the five year mark. Let’s see what happens when one of them cheats, when a child dies, when one or the other has a mid-life crisis. They’ll be in divorce court, just like the rest of us.
14
My wife and I remarried when marriage became legal in our state. But the 22nd anniversary of our Episcopal wedding was a few months ago. Our child grew up in rural America and entered college this year. Church weddings, registered domestic partnerships and second parent adoptions long predate legal marriage in the United States. There is plenty of data.
2
The artwork for this article is astonishingly poor.
22
I like men but I would never marry one. `
10
An important aspect of couple relationships is economics. San Francisco, from the early establishment of gay and lesbian neighborhoods in the 1970s, provided a strikingly visible contrast between the assets of male and female couples. Gay men gathered in the Castro district, and very quickly shops, restaurants and beautifully restored houses appeared. By contrast, many lesbian couples found housing in Bernal Heights, a poorer neighborhood to begin with, characterized by smaller houses and, in the seventies and eighties, few shops and restaurants. Later both neighborhoods, particularly Bernal Heights, developed and changed, and the AIDs epidemic struck deeply in the Castro district. But the fact is that two men with pooled incomes generally have more money than two women. They can buy larger houses, spend more to decorate them, eat out more often, and spend more freely than two women, who are making, even now, about 76% less than men. Economic differences create other kinds of marital distinctions, so it isn't surprising that two men have more time to spend with their children than two women might, for instance. This is an excellent article, full of valuable information, but it would be useful to see the results of really good study which also looked at the incomes and hours worked of each member of the couple and correlated those figures with the other findings.
112
@MSM
On the other hand, gay men and lesbians are more likely to eschew traditionally gendered occupations.
@Chris Pining Your evidence?
1
Am in a same-sex female marriage of 22 years but am wondering if the data is sufficient here - only 10 days of diaries? Am surprised that lesbian marriages are here found to be less long-lasting than straight ones.
In my view, a lasting marriage (and I am not American) is based on (a) commitment, not romantic love, (b) realizing that there is no better person out there, everyone has flaws so there is no point looking for a perfect person, and (c) realizing that one person cannot fulfil all your emotional and intellectual needs , so maintain close friendships
50
Well argued piece. And I'm glad to be looking at coupling and parenting this way. But how much of the central claim can be explained away in the very statistics reported herein? If 18 percent of pregnancies are unwanted, and presumably all of those are from straight parents, what portion of the lower quartiles dragging down the straight-couple statistics are due to those couples? In other words, what do the stats look like if you take out the unwanted pregnancies? What if you take out the unintended ones? It's reasonable to guess they would even out somewhat, but how much? The thrust of the article might ultimately be something much simpler, or even banal: Couples who want their children are happier. That would be — let's just say much less interesting. It's also quite possible, given the facts presented.
20
I also find that getting hired help such as a housecleaning service makes a huge difference in achieving harmony between the sexes. Many people balk at the expense but even if you have someone come once or twice a month. By cutting back on unnecessary expenses like dining out too often, or buying lunch everyday at work and coffees at starbucks you would be surprised at how much you can save and you can afford a cleaning service. it;s worth every penny! (The cleaning service can do laundry too!) And what is all this about washing dishes? Who actually washes dishes these days? You put them in a dishwasher!
17
@Be Bop: anyone who cooks needs someone to clean. Pots and pans and cooking implements and kitchen knives don't go in the dishwasher. They need to be washed, dried, and put away. Then there's cleaning the stovetop and the counters and sweeping up the floor, all the basic daily cleanup that needs to be done after a family is done preparing and eating dinner. Much better for he who did not do the cooking to take the lead on the cleaning.
44
Some of us do not have dishwashers.
Another factor for same sex couples is that they went through the process of “coming out “ to both themselves and to the world that process often, in my experience, makes one more introspective and focus on dealing with emotions and how they relate to other people. Excellent skills to have when in a relationship.
33
Gay here. I’m legally married to my husband.
5 years, like most. 46 years in March like very few.
Love, love, love him.
40
Good for you!
1
Can only speak for myself as an early 30s bi (mostly w/ men though) guy in NYC. I think it's especially true in the big coastal cities, but I can just never imagine shacking up with a man and trusting him with so much: a house, mortgage, and least of all kids. I see this work in lesbian couples, but I've never met a gay male couple in real life who have anything like what's described in this article. It's all open relationships. I don't believe in monogamy OR open relationships (kudos if it works for you, I tried it and it failed miserably for me) so I'm slated for a life of being single.
This is grim: but with assisted suicide becoming more mainstream, I'm not as scared as I used to be about aging "alone." I can trust myself to buy a home or be a single parent and when the time comes I can exit this (rather crappy) existence in peace. A partner would be nice, but a gay male partner who actually wants to pay attention to their partner in NYC is non-existent. Not sorry for telling the truth on this.
12
That’s more a NYC living issue it sounds than a “gay male life” issue. Travel, meet more people, take more time to get to know more non-Americans, who knows what can happen. :)
5
You’re in a tough place now. I like the idea of your raising a child. Giving to someone truly truly in need gives perspective hard to achieve in another way. Start giving soon. Best wishes.
2
I’m in a gay male marriage and I run the dishwasher and my husband does the cooking. We each do our own laundry and we have two four-legged kids that we care for equally. We’ve dispensed with the whole traditional gender role thing, we just do what needs to be done; anyhow it’s tired who needs it! On the occasion we have a row we just end up laughing, how can you stay mad at your best friend?! Of course we’re not perfect, but all I can say is we’ve been together going on 30yrs (3yrs married), something is working.
Happy Valentines Day tomorrow!
68
I commented already, but I wanted to share this anecdote about partnership. It may be a little sappy, but I love the image.
When my partner and I first started dating in 1997, a dear friend who herself was married to a man (and remains married to him, with three amazing children), offered this to us in the way of advice:
Imagine your relationship as a 100-acre farm. 49.5 acres belong to each of you exclusively. You can do whatever you like on your 49.5 acres, and I can do whatever I like. We can visit each other's parcels and share the produce from them, but they remain our own domains to do with as we please without accountability to the other person.
The 100th acre is the one we share, and it is our life together--our home. Because we each have granted one another the luxury of 49.5 acres of freedom, we must work extra hard, together, to make sure the acre we share is kept sacred and special. It is our refuge when we come in from the fields.
In this way we can make a sustainable life that acknowledges we are two separate and distinct human beings with individual rights, freedoms, and needs that we intentionally negotiate to create a life together. Not a life that overtakes or engulfs the one we brought with us to the relationship, or that erases us as individuals, but one that nurtures the space where our lives overlap, and creates something new and unique that can thrive and endure.
46
Last year I noticed more and more women, both older and younger in suburban Virginia and Maryland, who are mowing the lawn and doing the yard work. I guess house work is outside too.
11
The grass doesn’t stop growing just because there is no man around to cut it.
This article makes me recall the lyrics from a Mr. Rogers song titled "There are Many Ways to Say I Love You":
Cleaning up a room can say I love you.
Hanging up a coat before you're asked to...
It's not just flowers and chocolates on Valentine's Day. It's the day to day actions that shows if a marriage partner is truly committed or not.
35
As an agender and asexual couple, we don't have roles or labels (no wife or husband). We've been together for over 20 years. We both go out of our way to do 'chores' to save the other person from doing them - most of the time, the 'chores' are done while we are chatting or we do the task together.
So sad that gender still exists and that gender norms are still so ingrained.
The queer world is so diverse - embracing so many more terms and nuances than just straight/gay/lesbian. I wonder if the study authors considered this aspect.
18
According to a study by Pew Research, in the U.S. in mixed sex households, women spend 45.2 hours per week in paid, unpaid, and child-care work, while men spend 45.6 hours for the three (this is for the period 2003 through 2011). So, about the same, with the main difference being that men average about 10 more hours of paid work, with a reciprocal reduction in unpaid. Doesn't seem inequitable, so perhaps the issue is not about who is contributing more, but rather who wants to do how much of which jobs.
15
Domestic violence rates are basically equal for straight and gay couples.I think that negates a lot of what we are talking about.
As far as gender roles it seems to me that there is still a bunch of breadwinner vs homemaker situations whether its 2 men or 2 woman at least in the relationships I've seen. Maybe minor differences, regardless I think relationships are relationships and there is some negotiate of tasks that will be in dispute regardless of sexual preference.
10
I have always thought it would be far easier to live with one of my female friends than with my husband. The house would be cleaner and more renovated, we would probably do more activities outside the home that I enjoy, and would raise kids in a more similar fashion. Alas, I am however attracted to the penis.
86
Single gal here. Sad to say, so many of the comments make me double down on my ___-hag status. That is to say, my dream guy just wouldn't be that into me!
19
A serious variable needs to be addressed: average household income. Studies show that poorer married couples are much less satisfied with their relationships and far more likely to divorce. Financial stress ruins marriages and limits the flexibility of dealing with household chores, child rearing, and everything really.
Now, considering that *married* same sex couples likely skew more educated and more wealthy (for historical reasons of societal acceptance etc) and especially that gay couples with kids tend to be much more wealthy than average (in order to successfully adopt or use surrogacy etc) this variable might explain some or all of the finds. Unless income is controlled for, we can’t be sure that the correlation between the patterns observed in the article and satisfaction rate is in fact also causation.
41
Married same sex couples are married, not *married*.
32
@Peaceman My thought too: financial resources and other significant social-economic variables like education level and cultural background are potentially large factors here. Too much aggregation in claims about large groups make me wary of generalizations.
9
Those *asterisks* were meant for emphasis (they often indicate that the text in between them is meant to be in bold typeface). I think you may have mistaken them for inverted commas/double quotation marks, which they are not. :)
21
I wonder how financial stress plays into the stability of these types of dyads. Women still are not paid as much as men, so it seems very possible that lesbian couples have lower incomes on average than couples that include one or more men. This may cause greater stress on the family which could impact the relationships.
22
Women’s choices? How likely do you think it is for a woman to even get a chance at a lumberjack job, even if she has the ability to do it? Sometimes your choices are made for you.
1
Probably a BIG factor in the statistical differences between gay vs straight parenting is that, even now, a lot of straight parents' kids are "accidents."
In contrast, becoming parents for homosexuals almost always involves considerable effort and money (especially for gay men).
So whereas straight parents include a large cohort who lacked the desire or preparation to have children, their gay and lesbian counterparts almost all come to parenthood ready, willing and able.
23
Very likely the most advantaged straight white older males are also teh ones sdvocating strongly against birth control and abortion even though birth has nothing to do with their bodies, and after birth, they have least (amongst other groups) to do with the babies. In contrast, their partners potentially have disproportionately the most work amongst the groups. Time for these women to make a Paradigm shift.
15
Also, because the marriage equality law is so recent, gay men & lesbians feel cool when they get married, whereas heterosexual couples feel retro.
9
Here is a thought experiment. Get rid of all of our practices and institutions that make us a civilization: production, consumption, banking, agriculture, housing, cities, religion, marriage, family . . . everything. We are now just male and female animals out in nature. Everyone just eats and has sex with whomever they like. Which of the genders would be the first to institute some kind of rule, in other words, to start making some kind of standard practice or institution in order to instill some order in the group? I say it would be an individual female making a request of an individual man to change his behavior to suit her agenda, which would be to establish a safe and permanent home where she can raise her offspring.
9
@Thomas
So sorry for you. I am trans living with a hetero female. What she says to me is this... a man does not get it... complicates life for his ego satisfaction and it is difficult for him to perceive when and how much attention I would like to receive and when. His world is out there and your world is here with me even though your professional demands as a doctor require your total attention. I know you are with me even though you are not. A normal male does not understand this nor is really interested in this. We share all activities to maintain the household. Each has their own personal space and unless invited... keeps it this way. Each one lives do make the life of the other simpler... not more complicated by gender differences and needs. "need my blowdryer? Folded your panties and are ready for you to use. Bought your brand of pantyliners as I noted you were about finished. Ugh... my hair is just horrible today and I am feeling less the inspired me... and I know she sees this and anticipates helping through the day. Could I wish for more? It is about anticipation and desire. Each of us "know" how it is inside the other because our brains, hearts and hormones are on the same path. We are married for 8 years and each day I am anxious to get out of bed to see the most precious person in the world resting quietly. I was married previously 100% hetero. No thank you... it is way to much work and worry. Best to all whatever your choices.
2
Same sex marriages being hapiper than hetero ones? Maybe because one person (or both) heterosexual partners in a hetero marriage or are actually..gay?
So lesbian couples have the same level of unhappiness as straight couples.
That pretty much subverts the whole point of this article, and it's never really addressed.
8
I highly recommend living separately. It's been freeing for me, a woman in a heterosexual marriage. It started a year ago when my husband took a job in a city 1,000 miles away while I stayed and got the house ready to sell. But I have come to really enjoy not having to worry about his needs and doing things on my own. I know there are folks who will say, why not just get divorced? But we do want to stay together and really enjoy seeing each other once or twice a month. Now the house has sold and I am preparing to move to be with him, but I have a new solution - a vacation cabin!
304
@Kate I agree 100%. Too many couples feel they must be glued at the hip, which I would find utterly boring (to which, some boring, insecure couples will argue 'oh, then you must not really be in love'). Being glued at the hip does not mean a couple must 'love each other more', just as a couple where each person has their own friends, hobbies etc. does not suggest they must love each other any less.
I think the ideal is having some Me time, some We time, and then mixing it up with various individuals, couples, hobbies and social groups, etc.
There's also the issue of sleeping patterns. How often do we hear of people who can't even get a good night's sleep, because of their partner's different work hours, snoring, etc? No way could I accept such a lifelong arrangement. A good night's sleep is of paramount importance. I'll see you later....in the morning! ;-)
68
@Kate do you have kids? Why was taking a job 1000 miles away an option, was it because of a once in a lifetime opportunity? You stayed and got the house ready to sell, so you knew it was temporary and that you were joining him. It was only a year. This worked out for you but I doubt this will work for any other couple with joint responsibilities e.g. kids EXCEPT when you have money. Money solves a lot of things.
29
@Kate
We did this for 4 years. I loved it. My husband hated it. In fact, "hated" is probably an egregious understatement.
A vacation cabin is a marvelous idea.
57
Another way to look at the data here is that the common denominator of lousy marital relationships is having a female spouse. Maybe women in our culture have unrealistic expectations of what they are supposed to get from marriage. Too many Barbara Cartland novels.
17
I doubt you have a point here, nonetheless it gave me a laugh...
1
Sounds like the significant other in your life surely did!
2
I enjoyed the article, though I wish it had discussed the number of hours in paid employment more. Equality around chores and child care is very important, but so is money. I think we over glorify work. A long day commuting and working a paid job can be very draining, and hours spent at this absolutely count as service to your family. I agree that as a society, we tend to undervalue the contribution of child care and domestic chores, which must be very dispiriting for people who spend a lot of time doing this critical work in support of their families. Taking this for granted is a recipe for misery in a marriage, regardless of who is doing what kind of work.
However, I urge caution in disregarding the critical contribution of money to a marriage, or taking too rosy a view of what it's like to endure a long commute and a stressful job. This is an important service for a family.
188
@Jeff True, but remember that in a majority of families in the US (about 60%), both parents work outside of the home. This means that both parents are working with long commutes and stressful jobs in the service of the family.
The question is, who is doing the childcare and domestic chores in these families? Who has a stressful job, long commute, and is responsible for most of the domestic chores and childcare? According to the article, in heterosexual families, it is most likely to the mother.
No one doubts that earning money is important for a family to survive; the heart of the issue is that women are working outside the home AND doing the majority of domestic work at home.
83
@Beth
Pew research is a good data source on this.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/05/who-does-more-at-home-when-both-parents-work-depends-on-which-one-you-ask/
Married men do an average of an hour more of paid work a day. You are correct that women do more work total on the balance. I'm not sure how the commute factors into this.
I agree with you that nobody doubts the importance of earning money, but an article that reports on domestic and child care work and barely mentions paid work is minimizing it, in my opinion.
There's also an issue around the work within each category that is very difficult to capture. Child care ranges from low key to grueling, so do chores, so does work. The stress level between chatting with other parents out at the field during soccer practice vs cleaning the grot out of the bathtub is pretty major.
22
@Jeff
So true, Jeff. I find chitchatting with other parents during sports practice absolutely grueling and it should be counted twice in the "who does more work" battle.
47
Reading this has me feeling quite lucky - I'm married to a man who is both capable and conscientious. We have only been married 3 years, but we communicate constantly about our values, our individual needs, and how we can live in alignment with those things.
My parents are in a very traditional marriage, and it took a great deal of self-examination to find ways to value myself that didn't include housework. We have to be willing to let old systems die and be brave enough to forge new ones!
We're now expecting our first child, and I'm excited to raise them in a household where both parents are attentive and involved. I think the future is bright.
132
@Rebecca I wish you luck. Your marriage before children may have little or nothing to do with it once there are children in the picture. One day at a time, and it's never how you think it will be. Best to get rid of any and all expectations and just take parenting moment by moment. Hard to maintain that constant communication once there's a child.
57
@RE Thank you for your kind wishes! Communication takes work, and I'll continue to expect it, as does my husband.
12
@Rebecca Communicating about doing the dishes is one thing. Communicating about who will stay unexpectedly home because the baby has a fever is entirely different. Regardless of what you think now, don't be surprised if the person making more money is NOT the person staying home.
Also, not all chores are created equal, even if people are spending the same total amount of time on them. Let's say the man takes care of the yard and car, and the woman takes care of the house. By definition this is not an equal split of chores. If it's raining today you can always cut the grass tomorrow. But make a toddler wait 5 minutes for a meal when they're hungry? An entirely different scenario.
37
As an unmarried gay man, I suspect a great deal of a stable relationship between two men stems from simple friendship. It is not uncommon at all in the gay community to see good friends, even best friends, who started out as romantic partners but decided that a friendship worked better. Sadly, that opportunity doesn’t seem available to our heterosexual counterparts.
587
@Steven
Good insight, Steven. Friendship implies listening to each other & respecting the friends point of view. More friendship as part of partnership would help a lot in increasing the partners happiness, Gay or straight.
60
@Steven Indeed. I am a straight man, and I recently remarked to one former girlfriend that she is the only one that still reaches out to me for advice and chatting. And let it be known that I've have more than a handful of girlfriends. I do reach out occasionally to some but it is generally a one way street. I do envy the friendship that my gay friends have. This is not a general analysis of women just my own personal experience over 20+ yrs of dating.
52
@Dom
As a heterosexual woman in a relationship with a man who is still friends with most of his ex girlfriends(even high school girlfriends from 50 years ago), this poses a different challenge to the relationship. I find my relationship gratifying and the sex is very good; maybe because he frequently washes the dishes, LOL! To be honest I have to check myself and not succumb to jealous thoughts while I give in to trust. There's really no other answer.
40
All of the relationships with women in them reported higher levels of stress. The conclusion appears to be that being in a relationship with a woman causes stress.
11
When I was married, My wife did most of the cooking. She was better at it. But I always made sure that while she was working on meals that I was doing house chores, like the laundry, which she disliked.
5
My husband and I have been together 22 years, married for 15. We are best friends, and each other's biggest fan. We show affection to one another all the time, and say "I love you" about 100x a day. We sleep in each other's arms as much as we can, because life is too short. We show intentional gratitude to one another for every day we have together. There's conflict now and then, just as in any relationship, and we work through it and grow from it. We're feminist socialists. We agreed early on that there would be a sensible division of household labor based on our natural inclinations and personalities. I'm a neat-freak and I like things to be just so. He's the opposite. So I take the lead in most domestic chores, assigning the ones to him I don't want and that he can do with minimal fuss--such as taking out trash and recycling twice a week. He also does his own laundry because he was raised by a mother who was very traditional and did EVERYTHING for him, and I felt he needed more skin in the game since it's our home and not his parents'. If I cook, he cleans up, and vice versa (I cook more because I love cooking). Our finances are separate--much easier--but we are transparent about them, and some things are jointly held, like real estate. There are myriad little reasons why it works, but the most fundamental--the one no marriage can survive without--is that we absolutely trust and respect one another. Without that, you might as well give up.
24
There is an expression: "Happy wife, happy life." From what I have seen the "best" (least contentious and resentful) straight marriages are ones where the man considers it his PRIMARY JOB is to make sure his wife is happy. Gay marriages seem to be much more about making sure BOTH partners are equally happy. I wonder why that is?
9
I always thought that the “happy wife, happy life” saying was because most women feel it is their job to take care of their husbands’ needs, but only in happy marriages do the husbands also feel that it is their job to take care of their wives’ needs.
Or as John Gottman (mathematician turned marriage therapist) discovered: in virtually all marriages, the wife allows her husband to influence her. In happy marriages, the husband also allows his wife to influence him.
21
I wonder whether part of the reason has to do with the history of same-sex couples and the lack of acceptance, sometimes bordering on outright animosity, they may have felt from the larger community. Many same-sex couples had to fight to be with the person they loved and I suspect didn't take same-sex love for granted; heterosexual couples didn't have that history.
10
Research based on 3 couples!!!
No wonder why Bernie is gaining power.
8
“Three SETS of married couples”, not just three couples
9
Three SETS of partners. Read.
1
@Yann
Whatever the number is it isn't very representative....
1
The three best marriages I know of are between gay male couples, two of which have been together for more than 30 years. The third couple, relative newlyweds, have been together 11 years. All three have children and are equally involved with raising them. The most noticeable thing about them is they seem to genuinely LIKE each other. I'm sure their lives are not perfect, but compared to the straight marriages I am aware of, they seem, overall, more compatible, happy with appreciative of their partners and their lives.
10
I do all of the cooking. He does all of the dishes. We split the laundry but he does all the ironing. He does all of the cleaning except the bathrooms which are exclusively my department. I do most of the shopping but there are things we need from a few stores that are his responsibility. I do all the budgeting but he sees a quarterly report which I do for his benefit as much as mine. I plan all the vacations. He makes sure we have everything we need and packs it all. It’s not all roses and sunshine but we are happy and have 15 years together. Early on we determined who does what. We talked about it and we regularly make sure each other is ok with the arrangement. every time I put on a freshly ironed shirt I appreciate that it was an act of love more than a chore. The daily grind isn’t a grind so much as us sharing a life and loving our way through it. Straight or Gay...The small things always matter.
464
@Jason L Sounds nice. I could never trust a man to do any of that, but happy it's working for you.
7
@Jeremy
Duh, Jeremy.
These are 2 guys.
9
@Jason L same here. My wife and I (SSM- two women) talked to each other about splitting chores when we got together. I love to cut grass, and have the time to, but I hate laundry. She doesn't mind laundry but hates doing the dishes. So she does the bulk of our laundry and I do the dishes and cut grass. Chores no one likes, like scooping cat litter? We split those on alternate days.
Our wedding was the best part... since we are gay, we did whatever the heck we wanted to do, and if people thought it was weird they just shrugged and thought "Well, they are gay, what do they know about weddings?" Our wedding turned out to be an amazing time and people still talk about how much fun they had three years later.
It's very freeing not having to worry about stupid societally engineered "traditions."
29
*cough* you forgot about non-binary people
10
Because men and women are in general extremely different in temperament, personality, insecurities & priorities... We are just apes.
5
Secret? The ability to switch positions perhaps?
3
As a gay man who has been life-long single (by choice), I would like to note that this article might be missing the ultimate summary. Among gay men, only those who really want to get married and have kids, go that far. That maybe why their marriages work better. Hence, the corollary could be that maybe fewer heterosexuals should get married and even fewer should have kids.
960
@Say What: and in addition
many gay partnerships are "open"
as are marriages. More "arrangements" are made when
it comes to expressing sexuality.
When it comes to gay marriages and children there are as many disagreements about if, when,
and how as there are in heterosexual marriages.
(Based on experience as a couples therapist for 30 years
in the Bay Area.)
24
@Say What Also, 90% of gay marriages are open. I've never met an older gay couple in a relationship who aren't open, and I've met dozens of them. This is why I'll stay single for life, like you. I respect open relationships if that's what someone wants, but to me they're just roommate situations. A majority of the ones I know fell off the sex wagon years ago. Sorry bros: you're just friends.
14
@Jeremy There is more to a relationship than sex. Stability, companionship - growing old together. That's good stuff too. Maybe the best stuff.
67
it took me about 10 years to figure out that dish washing often produced a "dividend." :)
12
Early in our marriage, I discovered that I like to cook and my wife does not. I also figured out that you can't eat out for every meal when you are starting out so cooking at home was a lifestyle necessity. In addition, of my five closest friends from college, the husbands all cook and run the kitchen.
Moreover, I am in charge of healthcare appointments for all our our kids as their health is incredibly important to me. I also sign the kids up for sports and camps as this is also part of a healthy lifestyle.
In todays world, couples need to divide and conquer (and focus on what is important to each of them). And when I fly in from a business trip, I go to the grocery store to make sure we have food in the house.
11
Dishwashing is just symptom of a larger, hidden issue not openly discussed in the article: women are expected to fully carry the burden of planning and managing the household.
It’s meaningless if my husband washes dishes when I have to ask him vs him taking initiative. If I have to manage my “partner” the way I manage my kids, that is a problem that causes discord. Who wants to have sex with someone who needs the same level of management as kids do? I’d rather be single in that scenario.
55
@Angelica Indeed. And who wants to have sex with a woman who considers her male partner the same way she does a child? Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
People can sense, only too well, how they are perceived...how they are thought of by others. Far too many women 'assume' men to be bumbling idiots....'assume' the housework will fall to them.
I find it interesting that all the single women I know who think like this...every man they end up dating or having a relationship with, indeed fails on the housekeeping/cooking angle. Conversely, I, who do not assume men to be this way... never end up with men who aren't capable of cleaning, cooking etc. And before you suggest the men I've dated were simply 'being on their best behaviors', then why is it that my friends (who tend to lump all men together as being this or that)...why aren't they encountering men behaving the same way as the men I encounter?
It’s an interesting, and for me somewhat counter-intuitive, fact that twice as many divorces in heterosexual marriages are initiated by women as by men. It seems reasonable to suppose that this might be due to the unfair burdens put on women due to domestic traditions, but it’s also interesting to note that women have rates of depression that are roughly twice those of men. So are women initiating divorce because of the undue burdens or because women are just naturally more apt to be dissatisfied? That makes the question of lesbian couples really interesting. If women are just more dissatisfied then lesbian couples might be expected to have the highest divorce rates of any couples. The data cited here indicate otherwise, so perhaps that is wrong, but it seems early yet. Time, I suppose, will tell.
2
I would venture to say that the many, many gay men I knew living some sixty plus years in San Francisco we’re happier in their relationships for three reasons sex, money and children. The sex part, most of the gay couples I knew in San Francisco were not necessarily monogamous by choice so the sex part of it could be juiced up occasionally with other folks without the consequences brought about in most straight relationships, divorce and alimony being the biggies I would imagine. The money part, although this has changed radically in the last thirty years, both the guys would expect to be bread winners, there were exceptions of course but if we’re talking equals in age social status etc. my gay friends would normally share the bills, gays have their own sugar daddy types with much younger guys also and that’s no different than an old straight duffer on his third trophy wife, you pay up baby. The last, and again this has changed a great deal in the last thirty years, but the fact that straight couples are more likely to have kids than gay couples, not only are there the financial ramifications but the sound of children crying at exactly the wrong time or getting sick or needing braces or needing to save for college for your latest little bundle of joy, nothing kills sex like the arrival of children; the emotional and financial strain can be life altering, not saying it’s not worth it, but the article is about happiness, not perpetuating the race.
9
It's in vogue these days for heterosexual men to verbally claim they're ardent feminists, eschew traditional gender roles and desire to be with a strong, independent, career-driven woman. However, my experience in the dating arena for the past ten years has been quite the opposite...Even the seemingly most "woke" among them default to an expectation of career primacy and
being on the receiving end of the vast majority of emotional and domestic labor. Consciously or subconsciously they really wanted a "housewife-type", but were perhaps just afraid to say it.
19
I must be a schmuck.
I do all housework, pay most bills, open her doors, tell her I love her nonstop, hug, kiss and cuddle her at all opportunity, take her out all day Sunday, our only shared day off, somewhere special. I don't wake her up when she snores; I stuff in earplugs and sleep on.
My wife's an immigrant from an exotic, longstanding culture, Sundanese, a subset of Javanese-Indonesian with its own music, dance, culture, dialect and social mores, and she's also Peranakan, meaning half-Chinese, half-Javan. She was born Buddhist into a huge, hilarious family that like nothing more than hanging out, yakking, savagely winding each other up, cooking non-stop and dancing to loud, crazy Sunda-pop.
I twice stayed for a month with her & family in Bandung and saw the secrets to household harmony. So I brought them home.
A biggy is never criticize or make her lose face. I can make subtle wind-up jokes about her messiness or her two huge piles of clothes in our bedroom that never go away. But were I to say, "You're a damn slob!" she'd cry for hours, I'd have to apologize, buy flowers and suck up for days. As long as I never directly criticize, it's 100% harmony.
She's the same with me.
What do I get back? A stress-free homelife. Permission to do whatever I want with friends, sports, etc. -- as long as she gets me Sundays. I openly flirt, as does she. I go on 1-month motorcycling and sailing trips without her (she hates both).
Schmuck, yes. But content schmuck, hell yes.
18
@Paul
Sounds like you two have fun.
And that thing about never directly criticizing, never deliberately or unthinkingly making your other feel bad about themselves is very good advice for everyone.
11
They mentioned polyandry and in the gay community the idea of monogamy is so pase and seen as a heterosexual contrivance. In other words, while there are couples who are monogamous, many enjoy an open option to their marriage in situation where relief is needed and distance makes it impossible. In heterosexual relationship the thought of their partner "cheating" is horrifying, and in the gay community it's not frowned upon as extensively. Some have the 100 mile rule if you're gone for more than a few days and its far away - enjoy yourself! Also many are quite open with their partners about sexual needs and build their relationship not on standards which may break the marriage like strict implicit rules of monogamy, exclusivity and financial reliance. The relationships which gays have is quasi-monogamous, mutual and financially balanced. Who has it better? Depends on the couple and ultimately each person has to ask themselves how open are they? We'll see how longterm these effects have on society will we continue the old standards seen in heterosexual couples or shall we see bisexual and homosexual standards become more popular? Time shall tell.
5
@Javier I agree. There's a reason why many hetero men refer to the 'ball and chain'. No one likes being told what they can or cannot do. Religion, of course, also gets in the way. That, and society dictating to people how they 'should' be.
Honestly, the hetero couples I've met who are in open relationships or who engage in occasional swinging..it was patently clear upon observation that these couples are nothing like your stereotypical hetero couple. No snide remarks about the other...no talking behind each other's back while among 'the girls' or among 'the guys' with cliche comments about how guys are all this or women are all that.... With couples in open relationships, it was all right there in the open...no jealousy, etc.
People would be better served to not allow religion or society to dictate to them.
3
If women do at least twice as much housework as men, and have higher levels of relationship stress, I'm just going to infer a few things:
-the problem is doing dishes
-male couples probably have dirty kitchens, defying stereotypes
-the key to a healthy marriage is a good dishwashing machine
4
For gay men, at least, stress over forced monogamy is one thing many of us don't deal with. Thus, issues over cheating and dishonesty are removed from the calculus of our relationships. It's one reason gay men have the lowest rates of divorce amongst married couples.
8
What a great article. It tells us absolutely nothing related to reality.
14
So all boiled down, it's straight men who are the problem. Which we all have always known... ask any gay or straight couple. Only straight men don't think they're the problem... but often will admit it when confronted. The only reason straight women are anywhere close to this "problem" is because they're exhausted from dealing with it.
16
What a giant lot of misleading rubbish is the bi-line of the headline "same-sex spouses feel more satisfied with their partners than heterosexual ones".
If same-sex spouses felt more satisfied with their partners than heteros there would NOT be the serial "extra-marital" sex that typifies the standard gay male relationship. I speak from personal experience. All of my friends in any form of gay relationship, whether it's been a month in duration to 45 years in duration, maintain an open-relationships and have sex with others.
Call that being MORE satisified with your partner ?
Not sure what school of relationships you went to Stephanie Coontz. Doesn't fit the bill in my books. It speaks to dissatisfaction
in a pretty fundamental area (the physical one).
What number of people comprise a set anyway ? That information should be mentioned. It's not.
2
I think straight couples can learn a lot from gay ones, and I found this article fascinating.
I'm a dad who does all the dishes, all the grocery shopping, and all the managing of extracurriculars for 2 children (scheduling and chauffeuring). I do all my own laundry, and shop for my own clothes. Unless I'm eating with someone else, I cook my own meals. I do all the outdoor housekeeping (snow removal, lawn, etc.) and the taxes. I hire a housekeeper to clean the house every week. Based on what I read here, I'm a pretty enlightened guy.
Yet my wife still carries the greater household burden. She cooks the family meals, because I would just make burgers or spaghetti, and she wants the kids to be healthy. She shops for the kids clothes, because I wouldn't know what they need. She does the kids laundry, because she knows whose is whose and how it needs to be folded. She helps with homework, because I think the kids need to puzzle it out themselves. And she pays the bills, because she tracks the budget while I just stop spending when the balance looks too low. And she launders the beds weekly, because I think once every two is fine.
Do I expect her to be happy with this arrangement? No I do not. I do what my time and interest allows, which seems like more than typical. But if she's got higher standards for something than I do, I simply leave it to her to do. That's not going to make anyone happy.
6
I’ve always baffled been at marriage. In 54 years I’ve never given it a serious thought.
4
This was a fascinating read. What I found a bit unusual was how "socialization" was taken for granted as the root of traditional gender roles and, for instance, men's tendency towards "outrage". This model of understanding human behaviour - by external influences alone - is not proven. Ignoring human nature does not make it go away, genes and their manifestations matter!
2
I think the author is trying to make a fair point, but misses the bigger picture - a classic "correlation not causation" error.
Spending more time with kids and sharing housework more equally are not "gaying" your marriage. The data are showing that these things are happening more frequently in gay relationships - sure, I don't dispute that. But those are healthy practices for any relationship - I don't see why there's a need to link them to gay relationships.
Being more "gay" doesn't make your relationship more healthy. Healthy relationships appear more frequently among gay couples - maybe it has something to do with the fact that historically speaking, gay people are more likely to have experienced discrimination, hate, and isolation, and therefore have more awareness of the importance of healthy relationships.
I personally think it's disgraceful and tone-deaf to suggest that straight couples should act more "gay" in their relationships when gay people haven't had the luxury of a choice like that for centuries. It sounds trendy, tokenizing, and insensitive.
5
I'm in my 50s, have been with my same-sex partner for 25 years, and am the father of young twin sons. Most people regard me as out, loud and proud and in general as a successful homosexual. At the same time, I can see the ways I was damaged by growing up gay in the homophobic and frankly dangerous 1970s and 1980s and to a certain extent I can see that in my husband as well. Not everything about being in a relationship is easy. Yet having felt for many decades that I might never find love or be able to have children, I am overjoyed that I have achieved both goals. It's a big generalization, but I think that gay couples appreciate what we have more than straight couples do, the latter having grown up expecting that everything would work out fine. Sometimes there is great privilege in not having privileges.
33
Loved this article; also loved "Marriage: A History," a real page-turner that takes all the wind out of the retrograde and mythological "traditional marriage" sails.
5
Is it a myth that infidelity among homosexual men is common? I wonder if they share their domestic work.
We, a heterosexual couple, have been happily married for 48 years and I have never done dishes, but I make tea for my wife every morning. Does it count?
4
@Jack, it all depends upon what your spouse feels and wants. Ask her, not us...
7
@wbj No need to ask, I know. That is why "we" and not "I."
2
“I support gay marriage. I believe they have a right to be as miserable as the rest of us.” — Kinky Friedman
11
So, I ,as a straight woman, would probably be better off married to a gay man.
18
S,W,F here. Oh, and C. Married, 20+ years. Do you think perhaps that many straight women, who are actually happy in their marriages, claim not to be happy, because society is constantly telling them that they aren't really? Or they shouldn't be happy? Because they are doing the dishes? I think this article is quite cruel, unless of course you are L, G, B, or GF.
1
I find it so funny that there is a study for this. You mean women don’t like cleaning up after their husbands?! Well that has got to be part of the liberal agenda!
5
@Jorge Nunez
Is 6 people really a study?
@A The article says 3 sets of couples, not 3 couples.
1
"The more traditional the division of labor, meaning the greater the husband’s share of masculine chores compared with feminine ones, the greater his wife’s reported sexual satisfaction."
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/magazine/does-a-more-equal-marriage-mean-less-sex.html
Mercy! What's a het man to do?
3
Talk to your wife perhaps? Wouldn't it be delightful if you were both able to play to your strengths and agree to accept a mutually agreeable lower standard for a few mutually disagreeable tasks?
5
NYT: surely you can find more important topics to highlight on your rightfully vaunted opinion pages. This-- followed by another piece on "forced oral sex" adds up to a Thursday edition that is not worth the monthly subscription rate. Talk about Nero fiddling while Rome burns. Our country is turning into a fascist nation and you are publishing articles about this form of sex or that form of sex? The only sex story I would find compelling under the present circumstances is the one announcing that the trump sex tapes from russia are currently on you tube and the whole story is now in the public domain.
4
Here’s the thing, Karen: the NYT covers all of the atrocities you speak of in earnest and in great detail. It’s all over the front page. I personally like taking a break from the Trump news cycle and the articles about the world being on fire. I can read about important world events as well as human interest and opinion pieces. If the NYT focused on JUST the things you mentioned, it would not be worth the monthly subscription rate to ME. I can get all of those things for free from CNN or Apple news. I like this publication because it’s a great mix of news, entertainment, gender/sex, and humanity pieces.
17
@karen
You're right. There aren't enough articles about Trump, Impeachment, crooked politicians, the dismantling of our country's institutions, election meddling, identity politics, Twitter tirades, etc.
A little sex never hurt anyone...
2
Not to mention that the forced oral sex story you mentioned describes RAPE. I’m sorry you don’t find that important or compelling.
3
A typical long winded, esoteric, intellectualized diatribe by the NY Times of the man is always wrong in a marriage unless he becomes feminized and neutered.
Treat everybody with respect with equality. Negotiate who does what and then let men be men and women be women and any other marriage types there may be.
If a man want to do housework 24/7 let him. If a woman wants to do it 24/7 let her, don't social engineer.
Don't identity obsess or social engineer. It only creates resentment, backlash and unhappiness on all sides.
4
A generalization from three sets of couples?
And of course diary entries are always honest.
6
In her book "Bonk: The Curious Coupling of Science and Sex", Mary Roach reported that gay sex, when measured (yes, they can measure how turned-on you can get), came out far and away more pleasurable than straight sex. The reason shouldn't be too difficult to discern: the "giver" knows what turns them on, and applies that knowledge to their partner of the same gender. That might have something to do with their long-term relationships.
That is a very interesting book, by the way, and I'm not gay.
4
A great book! Love all Mary Roach’s books. Such a good writer.
Really? Just another article intended to bash (heterosexual) men?
This piece is so one-sided as it relates to the problems and difficulties of marriage it is actually laughable. And, of course, it's written by a woman. Not ONE mention of money, which I'm willing to bet causes more relationship problems than anything.
Just for starters, let's get the perspective of a hard-working man whose wife is not satisfied with his income. At least that would start to tip the scales of this article's obvious bias.
2
It's the sex. Gay male couples tend toward mongam-ish, and gay female ones toward lesbian bed-death. It's a thing, look it up. That leaves heterosexual ones in the middle. Factor in the higher clinical depression rates for women than men, and the effect of birth control pills on libido, and no wonder that married women are more unhappy.
Can this be updated to read "How to Make Your Marriage More Equitable?" I don't believe it's acceptable to use terminology commonly employed to be pejorative..
Would Stephanie Coontz publish this under a headline using a racial epithet or other slander, albeit in a positive bent? The answer is resoundingly no.
Merriam-Webster does not define this adjective in the manner you used it. This headline normalizes homophobia despite the positive coverage the article provides.
2
Imagine a world where the Times reported rather than touted.
Nah. I cannot either.
5
I doubt that.
1
Marriage exists for children.
4
“Marriage is a wonderful institution, but who wants to live in an institution?” — Groucho Marx
15
@Zareen
Another one:
"It's called the marriage alter because its traditionally used for human sacrifice." -- Oscar Wilde
7
two people of the same sex understand each other better than two people of the opposite sex... hmm, who'd have thought?
3
Hardest sex for a woman to live with: a man.
Hardest sex for a man to live with: a woman
Second hardest sex for a woman to live with: a woman.
Second hardest sex for a man to live with: anyone who wants more housework done.
Lesson: housework is the bane of human existence.
4
@Pomeister My husband and I find that having low standards for housework really helps.
Wait a second, why is an article that summarizes sociological studies in the “Opinion” section?
1
Who cares?
Let’s just all celebrate Valentine’s Day tomorrow! No matter sexual preference, no sexual preference, sweetheart, no sweetheart, whatever.
Just give somebody you think a lot of for whatever reason a flower, or a little chocolate, a smile, a nod, a laugh.
Be kind. Have heart. Be a Valentine - whatever kind!
2
Same-sex spouses feel more satisfied with their partners than heterosexual ones. What’s the secret?
Who writes this stuff and what planet are they from ?
There is absolutely no way to quantify happiness by sexuality unless you are in the moment or by your persuasion. This is just poppycock....
2
“Marriage is a wonderful institution, but who wants to live in an institution?”
“Marriage is the chief cause of divorce.”
— Groucho Marx
4
Sorry but...why is there so much bisexual erasure in this article? How hard is it to say "opposite sex" as opposed to "heterosexual," especially when the article already says "same-sex" at various points?
2
Most hetero couples are married due to social norms and societal and familial pressures. Hetero women see the mere status of 'being married' as some sort of badge of honor. Religious and societal mores tell couples they should 'be married' (vs simply being in a committed relationship) before having children. Women put pressure on their men to 'put a ring on it, or I'm walking away'. (Now what man in his right mind enjoys being 'pressured' to get married?) Then there is the petty jealousies that ensue... couples believing that now that they are married, they must behave how their peers and society tell them they should. Their mate is supposed to be their 'best friend', glued at the hip at all times (except if their spouse is travelling for work, at which point the spouse left behind is now free to meet up with their single friends). Couples must suddenly write-off their single friends, only associating with other couples (boring), since supposedly couples have more in common with 'other couples'. Everyone trying to maintain images of being 'happily married' and having 'financial success' (keeping up with the Joneses) adds strains to the relationship.
With gay couples on the other hand, their very relationships, from the outset, aren't conforming to any societal norms. They aren't together because of any 'pressures'. They are together because they truly want to be with that particular person.
Gay couples' relationships are more organic, not 'forced'.
9
And you have to talk to your partner and listen to figure out what works for you. There are no assumptions.
1
hopelessly and endlessly single person here... probably will be my whole life.
all you married people make me envious. i mean, you guys can't even do some housework? i would totally do housework. i do all the time. why can't i find a single viable person to settle down with?
my siblings who are married still complain about being lonely. i get that... but come on, you're complaining to me?
3
It’s a lot easier to be happier in your marriage when you don’t have kids- at least in the short run.
6
I would say that household drudgery is the main cause of conflict and resentment among male-female couples I know, and I see two key sources:
One, men often say "well, I'll be glad to help if you ask!" Look, we don't use any special feminine wiles to see that the trash is full, the laundry basket is overflowing, the fridge is empty, the dogs need to be fed each day, dinnertime is approaching, the kid has wet pants, etc. We use basic observation. Don't make us ask you to do something that is patently obvious, especially if you'll accuse us of nagging if we do.
Two, anything men do is regarded as more work than when women do it. The same man who says he deserves a break because he worked all day will say he deserves a break because he took care of the kids all day. Putting away groceries is a chore when he does it, but nbd when we do it while also wrangling the kid. Sometimes we just want the sheer volume of boring, repetitive things we do to be acknowledge for the drudgery it is.
21
I’d like to observe that the small section of gay monogamy perpetuates anti-gay bias.
The linked studies, from 2010 and 2015, were conducted well before gay marriage was nationally recognized. Additionally, the respondents are not representative of the broader population because of their willingness to engage in such a survey.
Anti-gay bias has no place in modern society.
Ps: my originally comment was apparently not approved, so this is a simple rewording.
The fury of Republican men at being asked to abandon treating their wives like servants is mirrored by Republican silence in the face of Trump's outrageous and illegal behaviors. Go ahead, these men say. Throw your weight around. We hate women who don't let us do anything we want. Go ahead, Trump, do anything you want. Make everyone afraid of us. Especially women.
8
When I read these stats, it says that when women are involved the happiness goes down?
Maybe feminism is more destructive to marriage than homosexuality ?
This is what conservative, god-fearing straights have long feared.
That in a free society, homosexual couples might be able to live happy, productive lives and bring up happy, well-adjusted children.
Thereby pointing the finger at lies that have been told for generations.
God doesn't hate us. He either hasn't noticed, or has blessed us instead.
10
@Dotty And of course, if there is a God with a gender, it is a 'She"
There is no analysis of causation vs correlation in this article.
3
I have only married recently in life (over 50) and have observed over my lifetime that my gay friends' relationships were always healthier, more honest and endured decades longer (with less or very little strife) than my heterosexual friends. The truth is I don't have a single gay couple that I know (and I know a good many) that have separated or divorced once they decided to be together. And they remain deeply happy. I can't make that general statement about my heterosexual friends as some of those marriages have ended or struggle to find happiness together. I always looked to my gay friends as a model for when I did become married - for many of the reasons cited and observed in this piece, and having had the joy of seeing intimately what a truly happy coupling is. I learned about where habits I took on as a female were obstacles to true communication and arose without conscious intention. In thinking "how would _____ handle this situation" it allowed me to take a step back and draw on what I called 'gay couple wisdom' to navigate emotional areas without unconsciously contributing to rocky waters. I have always been grateful for that.
4
Secret? Easy. No kids!
7
Who performs these studies? Who are the people they are studying? I'm a man married to a woman, I honestly don't see how anyone could be happier in their relationship/marriage than I am.
And all those charts? I spend about 3 hours a day with my son, at least, every day. My wife probably spends about the same. We swap most chores daily, though she cleans the bathrooms and I do the laundry and yard work, maybe the only slightly gender stereotyped arrangement of our routines.
We both work decent jobs, but both prioritize family time over work success. We've each had to change jobs over our years together, but have each supported the other.
We live in suburban Pittsburgh now, used to be in the city. I don't feel our stress levels changed any between the two, but I wonder if there is a difference in where people live and the results of these studies?
But at the end of the day, I think it's all just about respect, empathy and cooperation, as well as love. If you respect each other to help them out with "their work" it tuns into "our work" and then just "our life" and isn't that really what we all want in the end?
Also, I see people questioning if marriage is somehow outdated, or only for economic benefit. I think not. There's a trust I have with my wife, sewn into our relationship by a binding commitment to always be there for one another through God and the State. I think that still means something. It sure does to us.
5
Interesting article. As with any social science though, we should also remind readers that we are talking about average tendencies. Within the averages for each of these categories of conjugal life, there is likely a great deal of variation and overlap among cases with many specific sub-groupings of same-sex and opposite-sex couples being more similar or more distinct.
This could be expected since a likely hypothesis is that all couples vary in the extent to which they internalize and enact gender ideology. That is, there are many gendered ways to be a same-sex or opposite sex couple, though the average differences are, nonetheless, very interesting.
2
Excellent article. A wise person once told me: "The reason we know sexuality is NOT a choice is the fact that heterosexual women exist". I feel like most women would choose to be with women if they could...and for very good reason (until the shaky, unequal nature of the heterosexual partnership fundamentally changes).
8
Constant male-bashing in the MSM [NYT included] for 25 years has tainted "heteronormativity" and is surely a factor of any detected lowered "satisfaction" among hetero couples...Journalist need to self-analyze their agendas for bias, along with the professors who teach them...Reportage and Opinion Pieces are all the Latter, as, surely, all know by now.
Gender is a kind of poetic mystery of generativity from whence we all were conceived. I suspect estradiol "The Pill," HIV and safe-sex protocols and 100s of millions of safe-legal abortions have added fears of heteronormative attractions, as well. MGTOW and #metoo and related clinical-level paranoias add more strife and para-strife...
Gay couples have their own enmeshment and power issues. Yet, at least they are free of "heteronormativity" --an obviously pejorative academic term, likewise "toxic masculinity," so akin to the defunct "bad seed" label that adults used to identity "toxic children" in past times, likewise psychoanalytic-psychiatry's "schizophrenigenic mother" and the "bad breast," "penis envy" and such...
"Where man and woman revere each other is the play of the divine" is a very different viewpoint from yogic scriptures that belong to what Michel Foucault the world's Ars Eroticas, in contrast to demographic-statistical lore of Scientia Sexualis of which this article is a prime example...
4
This was an interesting article in some ways. Of course, this article is guilty of the now-expected trope of blaming (preferably white) heterosexual men for everything. So the moment something points vaguely in that direction, NYT contributors sit back smugly and take that for granted. Often, things are more complicated. For instance, men might report less emotional distress not because they don't experience it, but because they've been taught to endure it silently. Likewise, the high rate of unwanted children among heterosexual couples might suffice to explain away much of the differences in satisfaction between heterosexual and homosexual marriages.
Despite this blatant bias (which by now has become a background noise on every single NYT article tackling matters of gender, sexuality, or race), there are interesting points.
It was totally unexpected to me that male gay relationships last longer than lesbian ones, and that the difference can plausibly be attributed to the positive effects of lower investment into emotional issues. That is, while emotional neglect is a real issue, there is also such a thing as doing TOO MUCH emotional work in a relationship: it sucks away at people's energy, it constrains the imaginary part of the relationship, it sheds light on subtle disagreements that do not need to be ironed out, it pressures both partners into becoming co-dependent, or into providing emotional support "as a proof of love" rather than because it is needed, etc.
6
I just left a five-year heterosexual relationship because of the expectations for me to contribute financially as an equal while being 95% responsible for all domestic responsibilities related to our main house, the Air BnB and his 150-pound dog. One day I realized it would be a lot easier to just take my cat and find a studio, thank you. Miss the dog.
24
I just checked to see if this data are reported at Fox News. It isn't. Weird, considering that they're "fair and balanced" and all.
2
An unblinded, non-randomized, subjective diary analysis of marriage without a single validated rating scale. Are you kidding? This is more an example of why social psychology studies can never be replicated - it is certainly not science.
5
2 thoughts:
1) Misogyny remains alive and well
2) "housework — the numbing work that must be done each day".
It's called doing the dishes, doing the laundry. The normal routine of a normal life that requires a modicum of discipline. If that's soul-killing then your American Way of Sloth needs some self-examination.
3
"Researchers recently asked three sets of legally married couples"
Three? As in 3 x 2 = 6 people. I apologise if I misunderstood, but you wrote an article on data gathered by researchers based on on threes sets of data?
Is this research?
5
There are only two biological DNA genetic evolutionary fit naturally procreative human genders.
And until the discovery of DNA, paternity, unlike maternity, was always in doubt.
No same- sex couple can DNA genetic biologically naturally have any mutual kids.
Being gay is not the same thing as being happy. Being gay and lesbian would be the end of the human race.
Sexual orientation is the sole identity focus of gays and lesbians. Being a parent complicates and enriches human existence.
5
I am a transgender man married to a genderqueer (non-binary) spouse, and many of this article’s findings resonate with me. However, I think the author and the NYT could do more to frame these queer relationships in ways that don’t insist on the “sex” of the people involved. The roles being discussed here are not about sex (what chromosomes and genitals one has); they’re about gender, and how couples do or don’t fulfill society’s normative gender roles.
Our society as a whole is moving towards an understanding of gender that is not based on sex. And part of the point of this article is that, when we think less about a spouse’s biological sex and the expectations that come along with it, we end up with healthier marriages. Given that, perhaps the article shouldn’t frame everything in terms of sex-based categories, even if studies have done so in the past.
5
Strangely, this article failed to discuss one of the most important reasons that gay couples are content in the relationships: over 50 % of gay marriages are open, with partners having sex with men other than their partners. An open marriage is commonly accepted by gay married men.
Why even the NYT had a recent article discussing this!
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/29/us/29sfmetro.html
1
Why not simply say "Make your marriage/relationship more equitable"?
2
This reminds me of an old comedy routine by Alan King called ‘Survived By His Wife!’...it’s on YouTube, just Google it and watch. As he says, why do women live longer than men? Because they are not married to women! Not any more!
1
“In fact, it appears that many different-sex couples would have happier and more satisfying marriages if they took a few lessons from their same-sex counterparts.”
See, that’s exactly why people vote Trump!! Because you probably can’t get, or not willing to get, that most Americans are still religious.
3
So elect a man who’s been married multiple times, each new wife being his mistress beforehand? Who has multiple accusations of sexual assault? Who paid off a pornography star? Who lies, cheats, and steals? Blackmails and uses his position to bully and to further his own twisted agenda? Listen to yourself, REALLY?! And religious or not, a majority of Americans support the advancement of the LBGTQ community.
3
So the gist of this article is that women are difficult to live with?
3
I prefer the term "mixed-sex couples" to "different-sex couples" when juxtaposed with "same-sex couples".
What most working wives need is a wife to help get things done.
8
So none of us like the grunt work.
11
Says who? A question from A lonely person who only has sexual relations with the opposite sex. (that is women in my case).
1
Why are same sex marriages more rewarding? Because they generally evince a commitment between two people *in spite of* homophobic, heteronormative hegemony — not because of it.
10
Many gay marriages are "real estate" marriages. One or both partners continue to have sex outside of the marriage. You can't compare apples and oranges - except maybe hetero "open" marriages.
2
It always seems to me a lot of the strain in straight marriages really is just old-fashioned battle-of-the-sexes stuff. Two of my best friends are married guys with kids, and whenever we get together there is almost always at least a comment, sometimes a whole evening of discussion, about their marriages. (“She gets upset whenever I don’t put my boots away in the closet.” “I told her I’d take the trash out tomorrow, but she couldn’t wait.” “She said she was too tired to cook, so I had to microwave leftovers for the boys.”) I nod and find supportive words to say, but inwardly I’m thinking, “Thank god I don’t have to deal with this kind of drama at home.” (Also, usually: “I don’t blame her.”) Then I go home and tell my dear husband about the evening, and we lie in bed together and chuckle affectionately about our crazy straight friends.
317
@Peter Of course, you have no idea what your "dear husband" says about you when he's out with his friends.
14
@Peter
Always bad form to complain about one’s spouse.
Unless, of course, it’s to your therapist.
7
@Peter One difference, assume, form the relaxing evening back home, thatyou don't have kids.They are in a much more demanding household.
13
A someone who has been happily married for 30 years with 4 grown kids, the solution to satisfaction in any relationship seems pretty simple. Respect your significant other (regardless of sex) and treat them like the most important person in your world. The end.
We have also used the mantra of 'see work, do work'. No gender roles, no expectation other than we both contribute in anyway possible or necessary to what needs to be done. The end.
This works in any relationship of any sex to any sex I am sure.
Sometimes we make things harder than they need to be.
8
A tangent from this article: pro-lifers, many of whom also valorize heterosexual marriage as the family ideal, might wish to reconsider their staunch opposition to abortion, given the negative impact unplanned and unwanted children have on marriages. One could call for vasectomies as a solution to the problem, but that procedure seemingly violates the scriptural command to be fruitful. A pro-life Gordian knot.
6
Is there a study out there where all these unhappy women were asked why they are so unhappy? I can only speak for myself and the women I know, who are in romantic relationships with men while working full time and paying half of the bills. All of us would appreciate our partners to take on more responsibilities when it comes to housework and children, many of us are frustrated because we experience our partners as being more of an additional child to take care of.
Such a study might give us a brake from all the (overwhelmingly male) commenters explaining to us that women actually want to do all of the housework alone, only date men who have jobs that allow them to stay home and do so, outright fending off their husbands many attempts to take on more housework chores.
12
@Alex I think many men enter a marriage thinking that the whole thing is set up to suit a woman’s needs and desires (house, children, social standing et cetera), so they always are a bit in the dark about what needs to be done. Women run the show, so men take a fairly passive role in it, since little of it was their idea in the first place.
4
I’m a man married to a woman.
I do the lion’s share of the domestic/child work. I’m also the major bread winner.
I suppose I’m atypical per this study. I’m not happy with the arrangements but I do the work because someone needs to do it, and I love my kids.
Maybe I should conclude I’m a woman?
2
Love this article. As a feminist and a graduate of a women's college, I still see so much gender inequality on the relationship and home front among heterosexual couples—with the woman doing the majority of the emotional, child-care and domestic labor. Even the fact that so many women still take their male partner's names or if they keep their own maiden name in almost every single instance I can think of—the children de facto get the man's last name. I find this troubling and frustrating. Especially when the women who do these things identify as feminists, but they accept gender inequality in their relationship and home life—even wearing it as a badge of pride. I don't have all the answers, but I am trying to only participate in partnerships that feel like actual collaboration with equality at the core.
6
How come this research didn't compare married couple (gay and straight) to singles with regard to "stress level"? The absence of singles-by-choice in the study shows that the researchers assume that marriage, of whatever stripe, is and ought to be everybody's goal, the only question being how to tend the goal once achieved. My guess would be that singles-by-choice are the least stressed of all.
6
Maybe single sex marriages are more successful because of all the cultural pressure that is placed on heterosexuals.
Same sex couples want a legal union; heterosexuals assume it as a rite of passage.
I say there is something to be learnt from those who want it rather than those who have to do it.
Sincerely,
A female heterosexual.
3
@HMV
that's exactly the point. fewer scripts to follow!
Same sex couples want equal rights, marriage is a tiny part!
Men should get together and turn the tables on women, and start demanding all of the things they demand of their partner, plus more. Then we will hear what women have to say. My point is that the narrative of ‘our model of marriage is not working’ is told from only one perspective, and does not interrogate the entire dynamic to assess the phenomenon completely. Most of the needs and wants of men in a marriage are unknown, even to them, because their perspective has already been foreclosed. Men, what do you want?
2
"What's the secret." Short answer: selection bias. Until very recently you had to be really dedicated to your relationship to be gay married. Less so for straight married.
I suspect in 10 years the numbers will tend to converge. In 20 they'll converge even more. In a couple decades we'll all be equally happy (or not).
10
My only issue is that the article goes beyond identifying heterosexual marriages and same sex marriages into breaking down the individuals in those marriages as gay, lesbian, and straight. Bisexuals, pansexuals, people who ID as queer, etc. can also be in either of those types of relationships. So, it's not an entirely accurate analysis.
I would be interested to see an analysis of so-called heterosexual relationships where one or both partners is bisexual, for instance, and how that would further inform who does what, especially considering they could have past experience(s) in same sex relationships.
1
My partner, Roy Hammer, and I are in a 55 year same sex relationship. Both in our 20's we had no experience living as a couple. Our first day together Roy asked me "who will do the cooking?" I said "I've seldom cooked a meal" and so we agreed that Roy would do the cooking, and I would do the clean up. Our first division of labor occurred in bed making and household chores with my doing the lesser amount. Over the many ears Roy has taken on a larger & larger role. Sometimes I say "I only make the drinks", but now Roy makes the mixed drinks. The key to our successful relationship is my willingness to let Roy taken on more and more of the household duties. Jim Hinkle
2
I suspect a lot of the satisfaction or lack there of results from how assumptions about traditional roles weigh on most different sex marriages.
Treating each other, first as friends seems more likely in same sex situation, and that means being open to talking over differences, and understanding that if you want this to work, there's going to be give and take. Maybe being outsiders for so many years meant you had to be tighter with one another?
I'm fascinated with a relative who's a lesbian: her circle of friends (including exes) just seems to expand over the years, despite breakups; whereas in divorce, for women, at least, the social circle often shrinks.
I wish there was a way to assess how many married ( or permanently committed) couples have been really open with one another before making that commitment. From the personal stories heard, I'd say there's a lot of holding back during the "romance" period: when the whole personalities start to emerge, there's shock. when there's a long marriage with one or both partners suppressing parts of their personalities, there will be simmering anger.
Interesting. How hard it seems to be to connect.
3
I'm firmly heterosexual, and have no interest in getting married. I'm part of the burnt out Millennial professional class, and the last thing I need to deal with is someone else's mess, physically or mentally. My mom was a miserable housewife and my dad never saw us because he was constantly working for low wages.
Up to 30% of my generation is predicted to remain unmarried by the time we hit 40. I think this is a positive trend.
11
Back when I was living through my broken engagement and writing a memoir about it, I devoured works (memoirs, histories, studies) on the institution of marriage. Especially enjoyed Coontz's "Marriage: A History." This is fascinating stuff. Thank you, Ms. Coontz, for continuing your important research.
4
Straight people are so strange. If I or my partner are doing chores, the other immediately asks what can be done to help.
10
The sample is just too small to be meaningful. The obvious statements about male and female power inequality are pretty obvious. Economic inequality should have been studied as the key comparison. This keeps women in abusive relationships, and it is a much bigger problem than who does the dishes.
10
Basically you're saying if women are stressed out being married to men, then men should change. Clearly that's not the problem because gay men get along fine, supposedly better than any grouping. So maybe women need to figure out how not to be so stressed out and act like victims as much as they do nowadays.
4
The DNC should send this article to all potential Democrat and undecided voters in Florida, Wisconsin and Michigan. Let them know what to expect when they enter our big tent, love fest! I'm sure they'll be kicking themselves why they even considered voting for Trump.
Beautiful work Stephanie!
Males and females are very different--sometimes we seem like different species. That is the excitement and the challenge, the elation and the frustration.
Learning to build a relationship with someone of the opposite sex over time is one of the great conundrums and satisfactions, celebrated in art, music, literature--always variations, never ideal solutions. Why should it be easy or smooth?
We start to learn this skill in awkward adolescence. One is never perfect at it. There are surprises, disappointments. But the great attraction makes it worthwhile. Is this not life?
Conflict is inevitable--men and women think differently, we feel differently, we are different beings, we have different needs, roles. This fact of life can be painful. Relationships can fail. But if you celebrate "la difference," why would you want sameness?
1
It's actually very simple. Same-gender couples have the advantage of avoiding the age-old battle of the sexes competitive game playing, consequently coming together as truly equal partners. Sexually, they're freer to experiment because the world already sees their existence as "deviance." (Rush Limbaugh recently announced that the U.S. isn't "ready" for gay guys kissing their husbands.) Most important of all, they remain, at core, friends throughout the relationship.
1
I have been with my partner for over 25 years. We are temperamentally very different. We have much in common, and I would say the key to a lasting relationship is courtesy: biting your lip when you want to lash out. Expressing criticism carefully and sensitively. Living by the Golden Rule. Then everything else falls into place.
4
There's no secret. Same-sex marriages don't include any straight men, who as a group (yes, there are some exceptions) are the most entitled, self-censored, boring, and misogynistic people on earth.
24
As a strong supporter of gay marriage, I an astounded by the citation of a study of just thee sets of gay marriage.
That is just fake social science.
Gay marriage does not need to be defended by fake science.
It is just the right thing.
1
I like the female-centric tone of this article, but what about the fact that men too self-report as less happy with the opposite gender than with their own? If happiness is about sharing domestic chores, and men are disinclined to do that, why are male gay couples happiest of all? If happiness for men predicates on not having to do housework, they should be happiest of all with a woman doing it for them.
Regardless -- on behalf of gay men (I am not one), I'm heartened by the results. Gay men have been maligned and mischaracterized for centuries. And now, given the chance at last, they are crushing it at our most timeless institution. Hilarious. Good for you, guys.
12
@Lex, as a gay man (who came out at 36 after multiple female relationships) in a monogamous gay relationship now, one of the things I think make gay relationships work better than hetero is that there is no 'competition' to defend our sex/sexuality to our partners and we just 'get' each other better than I ever did with women.
1
@Shadowdoc That's interesting, thanks. I do see how that physical sort of empathy would come more easily and intuitively with someone of your own gender.
Why do we require a "ceremony," religious or otherwise, to share our lives?
If you want to be with someone, do it.
That this "ceremony" confers legal rights make it even more insidious.
The rights should exist as soon as you are born.
3
While I think the premise of the piece might be correct I doubt it is about who does the dishes. If gay couples are happier it is about them having more sex and less children. I say this as half of a very happy child-free heterosexual couple.
4
The “research” on which this essay is based is faulty at best. Diaries? Really? Self reporting of satisfaction levels?
One of the major determiners of whether a relationship works is the level of respect one partner shows the other. How about we try respecting each other and stop claiming that any of us are, as a group, better than those on the other side?
2
The ONLY reason we’re still together, 26 years and counting, is because I do the dishes...since day 1. Amazing, right?
3
A survey in one of the Scandinavian countries found that female-to-female marriages had twice the divorce rate as male-to-male marriages. The researchers concluded that generally, the problem that many women have with marriage is not with men, but with marriage itself.
Jasper
2
It's about oppression. "Gender roles" is a euphemism. Women have internalized misogyny due to fear. Heterosexual women think they must have a mate, and will sacrifice a great deal to obtain and maintain one. They sacrifice sexual satisfaction, time, and their own priorities. When women stop marrying men I suppose men might feel forced to change, but so far, many women are delaying or forgoing marriage and it looks like men in response are simply more likely to chat on the dark web, become addicted to porn or drugs, and occasionally go on mass murder sprees. I'm not holding my breath waiting for men to change. I decided to stay single.
3
Only half facetiously, remember the old saw “a man marries a woman hoping she won’t change; a woman marries a man hoping he will.” A woman marries a woman, problem solved. Happiness for both.
2
So married gay men have the most stable, happy, stress-free relationships, spend the most time with their children, and have the lowest divorce rates.
Such a wonderful destruction of stereotypes - both those about gay men, and about men's suitability to domesticity generally.
8
"Group X is more something than group Y"
Welcome back, stereotypes! We missed you! The Left most of all. How could we think we could ever do without you?
As for "the secret". It's called a honeymoon. It will end quite soon and then all the other stereotypes will come back too.
Hate to burst your bubble, but domestic violence rates are pretty comparable in same-sex and opposite-sex marriages/relationships.
So, we need to do much more substantive research to better understand these complex dynamics and to foster more equal, respectful, healthy, and safe relationships for all people.
4
Well, it's probably a very small group, but they left out "man does most of the dishwashing." I do most of the dishwashing, I'm a man. I do all the cooking, most of the shopping. I did more hours child care than my wife (who did plenty), including al the stuff @kelly is talking about, picking sick kids up at school, dealing with playdates. Just saying. It's not (quite) all men.
1
Confirming the reality that straight marriage has been and continues to be a bad bill of goods for women. Many industries profit from the old fairy tale. Women, resist!
5
I'd better do more dishes!
2
I'm 73, married 48 years, just finished shoveling the sidewalk with my husband. Last night I cooked and he washed, tonight it will be the reverse. Equality works!
16
"But same-sex couples are less likely than different-sex couples to assign “women’s work” to the partner with fewer work hours." How I wish THAT were true. Signed - Lower Work Hours Gay Husband
2
There is not a single sentence in this article that comes as any surprise to straight women.
15
The phrase "a woman in the household keeping track of emotional temperature" describes where a lot of heterosexual women's energy is devoted, and that is an exhausting job to take on.
9
https://www.economist.com/britain/2020/01/09/why-lesbian-couples-are-more-likely-to-divorce-than-gay-ones
Cannot get past the title of this without thinking of the sky-high divorce rates among lesbians. The NYT ran a similar article earlier this week (albeit sans inflammatory title) discussing the gender imbalance between husbands and wives wrt household labor. The gist of the comments being--women value certain things moreso than men do and want those things done to a higher standard than men are willing to perform.
4
This was a surprisingly good article from the New York Times. Much better than typical. Thank you for writing it.
4
Correlation is not causation. While these authors have shown a correlation between household chores and happiness, such a finding does not prove the causation. There are many differences between hetero sexual and same sexual couples. Children, income, housing status or place of residence. All of these factors are likely to be different between these two groups. To isolate chores as the source of marital happiness fails to establish the causation which the authors are suggesting
4
I am long married, overall pretty happily, and I cannot figure out why, other than tremendously successful marketing, family pressure, or overly romaticized views of the institution, we are still getting married at all. The financial benefits? If so, let's work to change how financial benefits are allocated. Relationships, parenting, licenses, taxes, insurance, let's see each for it's own properties instead of conflating them all in the illogical and emotionally confused state known as marriage.
244
@RE
During the campaign for same-sex marriage, advocates identified 1000+ rights, obligations, and legal benefits that were conferred on married couples. You can try to untie that Gordian knot as many gay couples did, but the legal costs of replicating even a fraction of those rights gets expensive very quickly. Disbanding all those rights that each couple would have to secure on their own would turn marriage into an institution skewed toward the wealthy.
47
@RE It is all about the benefits, which is why same-sex couples fought so hard for the right to marry. I agree — the government should not privilege people based on their romantic/sexual choices. I'd rather see them go to those who care-give, which all of us will do and need at various points in our life. Not likely to happen anytime soon: https://aeon.co/ideas/marriage-should-not-come-with-any-social-benefits-or-privileges
26
@RE
Because shared finances, legal obligations, tax benefits, insurance and so on, makes a corporation. Sharing the "...illogical and emotionally confused state" of a marriage makes a marriage. And after 25 years of marriage, I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world.
18
Going to take this opportunity to assert that I am just nuts about my hubby.
I get what this article is saying about different approaches to household tasks, gender-assigned responsibilities that impact gay couples less than their heterosexual counterparts. But for me I feel it has more to do with the individual histories me and my guy bring to the equation.
I’ve been out since college, a life of adventure and misadventure and one failed relationship that started when I was too young to commit and lasted way too long. Lessons learned. Not particularly eager to repeat that mistake.
My other half came out very late in life, if he’ll forgive me for calling his 40s late in life. One botched go at having a boyfriend led to meeting me at our train stop. An awkward courtship followed, but somehow he got under my skin.
Very different in a lot of ways. He’s Catholic, I’m not beholden to any religion. He’s unbelievably nice, me, brusque and snide sometimes. He’s generous, thoughtful … I mean, I can be at a part talking to someone about myself for 20 minutes, Charlie walks over and says to the person “How did your son’s surgery go?” Kind of a distinct contrast there.
But oh my gosh, I never thought I could be so happy. We’re in our 18th year now, I just turned 61, we are so settled and so content. Husbands and wives, we extend our best wishes to you all.
399
@Brian Wow. 32yo bi guy (tho mostly date men) in NYC. I could never imagine meeting a gay couple as content as you describe. Good for you.
10
@Brian Please write and submit an essay to Modern Love :)
19
I read this article with great interest and sad to say, it confirmed my sense. In my heterosexual relationship of 40+ years, it's been a constant power struggle, (or should I say for me, a deferment to power.) My mother taught me it was a wife's duty to keep a marriage intact, and my husband's perfectly happy with that. For 30 years I was told, "if you won't do what I want, I'll find someone who will." When I finally began standing up for myself, I felt better, even if I was denied any compromise I was after. To me, men and women move through the world in decidedly different ways. I only seek compromise. My man seeks winning. I envy the women who have (happily) made a different choice.
9
Thank you for this excellent piece. The critical mass of open, socially accepted gay/lesbian marriages is validating what feminism has been contending for decades: gender is socially constructed and equality is better for everyone. This, of course, is why gay marriage has been so threatening to right-wing advocates of patriarchy. The data on happiness and attention to children is especially useful in countering arguments about the superiority of "traditional" heterosexual marriage.
655
@Elizabeth MacLean. There were certainly valuable insights but the writers assumed "social construction", they did not show it. One other important little detail was skipped over too, as abysmal as heterosexual relationships are made out to be they are the only ones which produce children.
12
@Elizabeth MacLean I know very few parents who have raised children of both genders (like I have) who believe gender is a completely social construct.
Why some need to be so absolutist about it is honestly curious to me.
19
@Carl: "heterosexual relationships are made out to be they are the only ones which produce children."
Not sure you see this as a good or bad thing?
And not all heterosexual couples do produce children.
10
I have lived with my husband for 35 years. He is ten years younger than me.
The secret?
I make an attempt to let him know, as often as possible in as many ways as possible, that I love him. We both come from homes where this was not the norm.
I also defer to him since this gives him a special power and reinforcement that helps him feel stronger, happier and more trusting.
He never went to college. I have many professional degrees. We regularly discuss things and ask questions about life together. Our discussions, which are frequent, are very satisfying. He has a tendency to compare himself with others and has let me know that he felt intimidated by many of my friends due to his difference in formal education.
So we also discuss what he has read online and with books, newspapers, and magazines. He is very curious and a natural learner. I make every attempt I can to reinforce this and to remind him that learning is lifelong and is not limited to formal schooling.
Essentially, for a good relationship to work two people have to be committed to the relationship. If they are then it can grow. We need to continually nurture and support it with real love and sincerity like we would a child, a plant. This is our life.
I don't think that this is a gay thing. It is really universal.
As gay people we are given the opportunity to find a life that is often not modeled by our parents, neighbors. So this makes it a nice challenge.
460
@Simon Sez Yes! Absolutely. My husband of 22 years and I kiss, hug, and say, "I love you" about 100 times a day. We sleep in each other's arms every night we can. We talk to each other constantly. We argue and we fight sometimes, but we get over it quickly and we grow from our conflict. And, as you say, we never forget that this is our life, and we wouldn't change a thing.
21
@Simon Sez Believe straight marriages suffer because straight men (even unconsciously) want a sex object, a maid and an incubator rather than a friend they respect (they have same-sex friends, why do they want a spouse that is a friend?). As a straight woman and tomboy, my entire adult life was filled with frustration with heterosexual males, one of whom threatened my life. Sadly, there is a built-in gender inequality in straight marriages through physical size and strength inequality and centuries of male dominance. At age 70 I am a happily single straight female.
4
Lesbian here married for 24 yrs w/ kids.
In general, I agree with the broad strokes of the article. Our larger friend circle is comprised mostly of straight couples with kids. And our male friends are definitely picking kids up at school, going to the bus stop, emptying the dishwasher etc. Probably more than those represented in the article.
However, I'd say the intangible stuff - that mental and emotional energy of running the family - falls largely to straight women in a way that doesn't in my marriage. Scheduling doctor's appointments, arranging car pools, fielding sick calls from school in the middle of a meeting, being a girl scout cookie mom, planning dinners etc. - all that falls to the straight woman. And that is EXHAUSTING by itself but particularly exhausting when both parents are working full-time.
I find that in my marriage and other same-sex marriages, that running of the household stuff is shared. An that is really helpful. OR, it is explicitly taken on by one and appreciated/acknowledged by the other spouse.
699
@Kelly Your last paragraph here is just what I found, too, although I was in a same-sex couple with a man for 29 years (until his death--from old age). When work is either shared or--as you say--appreciated and acknowledged by the other, there is a satisfaction and pleasure in knowing that this is a true relationship. There is pleasure as well in the feeling that you are contributing to your partner's well-being. That is irreplaceable.
113
@Kelly
Yes, I agree with your point about the intangibles. My husband has always been terrific about doing his share of housework and parenting tasks outside the work day. But when the kids were young, there were *constant* interruptions in my workday, and my husband expressed frustration when I said I had to work during "family time." Even though he knew about the sick days and appointments and parent conferences and everything else, he couldn't truly grasp the overall impact.
Finally I created a calendar that recorded all of the interruptions and tallied those hours each week. Being able to SEE the effect of being the go-to parent during the workday helped us restore balance and appreciation in our relationship.
I imagine this happens in both straight and gay relationships, when only one has a job with flexibility.
98
@Kelly Does it 'fall' to the straight women (in hetero relationships), or are many straight women 'taking it upon themselves'??
I tire of the stereotypical straight women who constantly 'complain' and belittle their men among the company of other straight women, considering them like another child for them to care for. (We've all seen the sitcoms and TV commercials as well, that do this very same thing...)
Many straight women seem to take many such tasks upon themselves due to the firm belief that their men simply won't do the job as well. No one likes being nagged. No man likes knowing that his wife went into the marriage already assuming this or that about him. I believe many men just give up because with some women, they simply 'can't win' no matter what. I'm a hetero female, but yet, I really can't stomach your average hetero woman who's obsessed about 'being married'...judging the size of her own ring and that of other engaged/married women...who makes comments like 'ugh, my man expects me to thank him for putting his socks in the hamper'... 'all men cheat'....blah blah. You reap what you sow, and when certain hetero women think this way about men, that's precisely the man they are going to find themselves with. It becomes self-fulfilling.
14
"The woman does the housework" idea in heterosexual marriages is so deeply internalized that a common phrase among the married female associates at a national law firm was "I wish I had a wife."
811
@Hypatia Back in the Golden Age of Television, there was almost always someone home to do the maintenance, upkeep and to take care of the kids, like a maid, a nanny, a retired uncle or aunt, or a grandparent. Often, it was because one of the parents, usually the mother, had died. This person was considered a valuable member of the household, the glue that held the family together and someone who could offer comic relief and sage advice. I don't know if this reflected real life or not, but it was a wonderful idea, and one worth resurrecting.
20
@Hypatia In my household, "the woman" left me to raise our two young children alone, without assistance of any kind. And I'm not the only single parent father out there. I have met many working fathers who carry there weight, and often more, when it comes to "housework." I tire of these trite generalizations.
34
@Hypatia
Not disagreeing with you, but commenting from the other side of that law firm equation. As a man married to a female lawyer I started doing the bulk of chores when she went to a big firm. We move frequently and the balance of work and chores everywhere we go varies, so I knew this state of affairs was temporary and she had done same for me. While I embraced it, enjoyed it, and took pride in being the domestic anchor, it was not easy—in terms of time management or emotionally. I did think of the phrase “I wish I had a wife”—not to replace my partner as a human being but to do the things for me that I was doing for her. I was also working 45+ hours a week at a job that I loved where I could always do more work; I would be lying if I said the extra housework did not make it more difficult for me to accomplish things at work.
The real truth is that regardless of what gender you and what kind of relationship you are in, law firms demand way too much, do very little in the way of spousal appreciation, and have either no realization of or have taken no steps to adjust to the fact that their employees are with people who also have demanding jobs and need emotional/professional support at times that the firm cannot control.
Also, that 50s movie drama scene where the spouse makes dinner for the one who is working late, and they make a negative comment about it, and you (the one who made it) get upset: that is definitely not a gender thing.
36
Can only speak for myself and my own experience, but I feel that my queerness by its very nature makes me a better partner. Both my girlfriend and I--via the process of realizing our own sexuality in a heteronormative world and coming out in that world--have done a great deal of soul searching and work to know ourselves which in turn helps us to state our emotional needs more clearly and address each other's needs in turn. In general, it just seems that we have more practice in emotional intelligence than a typical different-gender couple.
205
This fits my experience as a gay man happily married to a gay man for over a decade. I do most of the food shopping and cooking and he does the laundry and it works out well. I know I had to figure out how to be a happy and rooted man in the world by myself. Even growing up in a very progressive community, the overriding message was that being gay was aberrant. We still have the usual issues but as far as feeling at ease in the world? We found our way to such a happy place.
31
@Molly
I don't think that's it at all. I've met lots of people who have overcome difficult situations who are jerks, and plenty of people who sail through life without a bump along the way who are delightful. (and vice versa,obviously) More likely, it was just your personality type to be introspective and have higher EQ. We tend to see out lives through the lens of our lived experience, but the older I get the more I think most of it is genetic. For example, I had a perfect childhood - loving parents, safe neighborhood, no illness or loss of loved ones - so I tend to credit my current happiness and stable relationships to that. But I only have to look at my sister, whose life and relationships are far different, to realize that I probably just lucked out with a decent mental health and intelligence.
13
@mem oh I would never say that these are the only factors (see my qualifiers that this is only my experience and that I'm speaking in generalities and not universally). I've known plenty of wonderful straight people and truly awful gay people (even dated a couple of them). I just mean that I see realizing ones sexuality (something every straight person does as well, just with much less fanfare) crop up as a factor contributing to queer people's emotional intelligence more often than in my friend with partners of a different gender.
7
I'm a single guy & an observer of my friends & coworkers. The key to cooperation seems to be communication & caring about a partners needs. Men get most of the blame for lack of communication, but Womens Liberation in many cases has given female partners the idea that they must be heard, but don't have to listen anymore. That doesn't work. One straight couple I know is inspiring. They both listen & take each others needs into consideration, just like a gay couple & have been happily married for more than thirty years. It's simple to say, but hard for many people to do: Love your partner as yourself.
15
@Doug
Agreed.
I see this in too many young (20-ish) women.
It's all about me, me, me, me. They expect men to behave like gentleman (and they should), but they have no expectation of themselves to act like ladies and to treat men with respect. They don't treat themselves with respect much of the time either. Binge drink until you black out is a preferred pastime.
Broad strikes here, admittedly, but I do see a lot of it.
2
Fascinating research. As brianpower trumps brawn and equality trends towards the norm, this type of introspection becomes even more important.
3
I'd be more satisfied were David Sedaris to weigh in.
7
Hello,
I am usually a supporter of NYTimes, but also a Data Scientist.
I just want to highlight that this study has been conducted "[...] based on 10 days of dyadic diary data from 756 midlife U.S. men and women in 378 gay, lesbian, and heterosexual marriages. ". This means not only we take only 378 couples (around 120 for each category), but also only from the US, only midlife, and most probably preselected with some parameters.
You don't need to have a PhD to understand that there is a huge bias, and while the researcher can say their p-values is below 0.05, common sense tells us that those findings are NOT generalizable !!!!
It is the duty of the journalist to check the sources and to provide nuances instead of stating biased results.
6
“Bias”? Not really. “Generalizability beyond sample characteristics needing to be demonstrated”? Of course. But surely matching the groups on demographic characteristics, even if this restricts ranges, is an essential first step. Matthieu seems to want everything at once! But that's not how any science proceeds. (I am a psychologist, experienced and published in research, and familiar with these methodological issues.)
2
So --
Men married to men -- lowest distress
Men married to women and women married to women, medium levels of distress.
Women married to men -- highest levels of distress.
The common factor here is women. This is true even in lesbian relationships, in which household chores are divided equally.
Why? From what I've seen, men are more apt to let things slide, rather than making a fuss over them. And that's crucial to the success of any relationship.
3
When friends ask my partner or me "who proposed?," we always say "our tax man." And indeed he did: soon after the SCOTUS decision, he called to say that were we to marry, our tax preparation would be more streamlined (aka less costly) and we would likely see benefits in regards to returns. So we made an appointment at city hall (Not San Francisco -- too busy) and married the next week. Nothing has changed. I do all the cooking because I am better at it and I do the cleaning up afterward because I am faster. (However, I suspect he may have feigned his tortoise act knowing it would exhaust me to watch such slow motion.) For his part, he does all the trip planning, so all I have to do is pack.....and complain if I don't care for the destination or accommodations. Well balanced, I'd say.
13
One important variable was missing: the role played by outside, hired help. Many gay households (coupled or not) hire maids and gardeners. I don't know many gay couples with children, but I would guess a significant number do have a nanny.
So with hired help, many of the traditional roles do not need to be discussed or challenged --- they are out-sourced!
When it comes to cooking, well it depends on who had the talent. Although many gay male couples I know live in urban enivironments which provide extensive delivery and dining options. (I am shocked by how many gay guys who can not cook.)
The issue of non-monogamy in gay couples true, but are they really, truly an intimate couple or just roommates with deeply interconnected financial obligations? Even those who claim to be in a "committed" relationship, yet an open one, are just co-dependent and not soul mates from my many years of observation. That's just my experience.
Overall an interesting study. Now compare Nordic hetero couples with gay ones. Let's see the results.
4
@R Rodgers, huh? I don’t know how it is in Spain, but here in the US straight couples hire as much help as gay couples. It’s something that is determined by income level, not sexual orientation.
2
While my male partner of thirty years and I did not have to struggle as much against sexist stereotypes or sexist upbringing when distributing household cleaning we still had to talk a lot to reach a mutually agreed upon understanding of what needed to be done, how often it had to be done, how many hours each task required, and who would do it.
We came from different families of origin. His family of origin appears to have been more comfortable living in more cluttered spaces while getting together as a group to polish things up for visitors. My family assigned responsibilities to different members trying to keep things good enough so that little was done when visitors flowed through. It appears that good enough was a lower standard in my family. My family probably talked more about these things.
For those who can afford it, we found it to be much easier to agree upon how much cleaning we wanted to pay professionals to provide. There were fewer family of origin issues and less risk of having one of us feel judged. In addition, at times when we decided to take some chores back, professional cleaners helped us understand how many hours they spent on each task, making it easier for us to reasonable divide the work. It felt more like joint decision making and less like unspoken expectations.
We learned that there are no elves who come in the night to do the work that needs to be done.
3
I suspect that kids is a huge factor on this analysis.
5
I have great respect for the author but found the article to be a restatement of what is already patently obvious about dividing domestic chores, traditional gender norms and expectations. I would rather know about sex, romance, fidelity, autonomy, identity, loyalty, possessiveness, jealousy, forgiveness, intimacy, etc...and any difference in how those are enacted in the context of straight and gay marriage and whether they result in differences in marital satisfaction.
2
I think it is the kids. While some gay couples have kids. The majority do not. Kids, while sometimes wonderful, at best complicate things tremendously. Instead of morning sex, often it is kids jumping into your bed. After finally getting the kids to bed, it is not uncommon to be too tired yourself for anything else. You also end up managing your kids schedules and balancing tasks instead having as much time for each other. And last but not least, kids are expensive. People without kids can spend that money instead on things for each other like more and fancier dates, and trips. Though it may sounds like it. I don't regret having kids one bit. We still go out with each other once a month. Which is a far cry from several times a week it was before, but my wife and I have made it work. Life certainly isn't any easier and it is definitely more stressful because of having kids. But I think it also it likely will pay dividends in happiness once our kids are grown. It is the just the process between now and there which is sometimes fraught. My parents' marriage didn't survive it. However my grandparents on both sides and in-laws' marriages did.
4
I married my male partner not long after it was legalized nationally, and since then, I've noticed a set of emerging norms among other gay male marriages, which may be increasing partner happiness (or not). First off, there's clearly a trend toward extramarital "discretion," whereas before legal marriage, it was almost taken for granted that gay couples have open relationships, which wasn't hidden. And second, there's more attention to financial management as a couple. So it looks to me like the emerging bottom line in same sex marriage regarding expectations has to do adopting the eternal "social respectability and money management" aspects of traditional marriage. Divvying up chores isn't what's interesting about gay marriages.
5
This is a great article. My husband and I have been together for 25 years and married for 6 and this housekeeping thing has never ever been an issue. The key is to be with someone who's just as OCD as you and voila...harmony!
8
I would imagine the fairly absent nature of children in gay marriage is the origin of the lower stress.
Heterosexual marriages are burdened with that whole raising kids thing. Which, in my own marriage, when our kids were home, was about 90% of the stress.
I know, some gay couples do have children, but, most don't.
So, IF we consider ONLY heterosexual couples WITHOUT kids compared to gay couples WITHOUT kids, well, I imagine overall stress in the marriage is about the same.
But, that was not separated out in this study, which, honestly, is a bit disingenuous.
Seriously.
16
@Michael, plenty of straight couples don’t have kids.
Dishwashing is just part of the issue. The bigger issue is the entire grocery shopping, food preparation, food presentation, and clean-up task. In many marriages where both men and women work, women do it all! They plan the menus, buy the food, cook the food, set the table (plates, cutlery, glasses of water, condiments, napkins etc.), clear the table, load the dishwasher/or wash the dishes by hand. They freeze food, wrap food, dispose of food, store the washed dishes, wipe down the table. If their spouses did one quarter of the process, the resentment would fade.
10
While expectations can weigh on couples, they can also be oppressive to individuals. I’m gay but have mostly worked with straight folks. The men in particular, blue collar & pretty traditional, were much wedded to macho. I saw how disabling it was for them. Failure to live up to macho in the extreme could catapult them into an actual state of panic (flushed, quickened breathing, pupil constriction, etc). After I learned this, I still resented comments that were lobbed at me when, in their eyes, I failed to achieve high macho (did they imagine I tried?), but less so because I realized that whatever level of oppression I felt coming from those comments was absolutely nothing compared to what the guys lived with internally 24/7. I always thought it would be great if I could grab several guys, force them to down a few shots then do funny duck walks and make Monty Python voices.
5
I would think that in same sex couples it might be more likely that they have similar jobs and similar workloads as opposed to (traditionally) the husband has the "job job" and the wife has the "wife job" and therefore does more housework and child care, due to time more than gender role attitudes? Might be interesting to specifically compare heterosexual couples in which the husband has the "spouse job."
2
It is unfortunate that dishwashing chores are causing so many problems in heterosexual marriages. Current dishwasher models do not require rinsing of dishes, etc. You just scrape off any chunks of food and place the items in the washer. Rinsing is not necessary! However, my adult daughter does not believe me and continues to spend a lot of time rinsing. Guests in my home are shocked that I do not rinse, and are more shocked when they see that everything comes out crystal clean. I hope this helps.
22
@Bill Wet streets do not cause rain, and it is unlikely that unequal distribution of dishwashing chores causes relationship problems per se. It is likely a good marker for a number of other attributes of the relationship.
You are very right about the dishwasher. The pre-rinsing that people do wastes water and time. I also suggest ensuring the water coming out of the kitchen faucet (most dishwashers receive hot water from the same supply) is hot before starting the dishwasher. While mentioned once in most manuals, I've found that the dishwasher works better when the water it receives is already hot.
6
@Bill Please don't assume that everyone owns a dishwasher. Many of us don't, and don't really want one My wife and I have a simple rule that works for us. Whoever fixes the meal washes the dishes. And we both share in the meal fixing duties.
1
@N Browning Thank you for your insights. I agree.
Isn’t it possible that women understand women and men understand men better than the genders understand each other?
Remember Mars and Venus?
34
Marry a bisexual man. The emotional intuitiveness and housework splitting comes much more naturally and from experience-- they are often more gifted and equitable lovers. Everyone wins.
17
@Whitney LKB:
Yes! I came to comments section to say exactly this.
B free.
1
While I can appreciate those in gay relationships who argue that the absence of rules and expectations allows them less stress, I'd like to point out that rules and expectations also have a way of reducing ambiguity and stress. For many of us, having infinite choices and decisions can be oppressive and stressful. Falling back on societal norms and expectations can be incredibly liberating and stress-relieving (so long as the specific norms we fall back on aren't repressive).
7
@Jeff
Although according to the article, was the data suggest that gay relationships are a source of greater, not less, satisfaction for the partners. Choices about housework and childcare are not infinite and overwhelming, so I don’t think the model you describe here applies.
1
@Jeff
The author does not claim that gay relations show an "absence of rules and expectations", but that there is better communication regarding rules and expectations.
3
@Pete
Thanks, Pete. I was responding to many of the commenters.
I am a straight white male, but I'll admit to having a gay thought twice a month .. Thanks for this fantastic and insightful piece.
10
@Aaron
You don't have to convince us, just convince yourself.
2
I really appreciate this post and the comments. I am a heterosexual woman, married to a man. My partner and I had an agreement before getting married about expectations. We have the conversations constantly. He is a gentle soul who does his best, and understands that patriarchal ideas are so deeply imbedded that it is imperative to remain vigilant. He does the cooking, cleaning, and the grocery shopping. We never fight about the dishes! Though we have argued about who is the one who comes up with recipes. I hope we can continue to be vigilant forever!
8
@Diana You are very lucky!
1
Great article, with some interesting insights. The aspects about better in-depth communication about mutual needs in same sex couples is particularly insightful.
A factor that is almost never discussed, however, it the root cause of gender stereotypes to begin with. Although it's not "polite" to talk about religion, when it comes to gender differences, and the roles and expectations of women and men, it is hard not to pin a fair amount of blame for persistent gender stereotypes on Judeo/Christian and Islamic influences. Each one exposes a heavy handed doctrine of male superiority and female subservience.
Maybe it's not in use as much now but I remember clearly the line for women in Christian marriage: "Do you Mary promise to honor and obey Roger".
It then becomes the chore of anyone steeped in those doctrines to figure out for themselves how to navigate a more egalitarian marriage. Same for matters of positive consent and sexism.
15
@larry Why only Judeo-Christian and Islamic impulses? I see it in other religions too - Hinduism, Buddhism - and it probably exists in the native religions of Africa as well.
1
The biology of reproduction - that women get pregnant, give birth, and breastfeed - means the mother in a heterosexual relationship will tend to develop a stronger bond with the baby. This connection is then reinforced by societal norms and expectations.
That doesn't mean straight couples can't agree that both parents should be as equally involved in childcare, cooking and clean as possible. But it depends on many things (the parents' jobs, their attitudes and expectations, etc.).
Mostly it takes good communication. Or, in my case, a husband and father (me) who has always wanted to be involved with the kids, and doesn't mind cooking & cleaning. Plus because my wife doesn't like conflict, we pretty much bury everything under the rug. (I don't advise it, but it can work, especially for the repressed mother-wife.)
6
I was married to an alcoholic and stepped up and cared for my four daughters. It was maybe the hardest and best thing I did in my life. Like the Grinch, my heart expanded three or four times on a day that I thought I could give no more. Many of these menial tasks that men neglect, are also the tasks that connect and bind you to your family. Nobody tells you that, you have to learn by doing.
I am now a senior manager at my company (also divorced). The lessons I learned in caring for my children are the same lessons I employ every day in the office. I also employ the lessons I learned through years of therapy on trying to understand how to deal with a depressive alcoholic.
The biggest lesson I learned was that men face huge obstacles. The most rewarding thing you can do in life and terms of satisfaction and career is engage with your children. Yet, we are told that earning money is enough, but it is not enough for your soul.
41
@Bike Rebel
You are enlightened and it’s clear how much work you have put in, to arrive where you are. Please reach as many fathers with your message.
1
The tricky thing with these sorts of statistics is teasing out cause from effect. Does a failure to share chores lead to unhappiness in the marriage? Does unhappiness in the marriage lead to a failure to share chores? Do couples from a more traditionalist background both fail to share chores and feel unhappy in their marriages? There are plausible arguments for all three of these.
There are also important other confounders at work here. I would expect that, since marriage equality is a relatively recent phenomenon, same-sex couples have been married for a shorter time, on average, than their opposite-sex counterparts. Maybe recent spouses are happier? Are same-sex couples older or younger? Are they wealthier or poorer? Do they live in different places? Do they have different social circles?
I am not claiming that Stephanie Coontz is wrong here. But the argument is not yet conclusive.
13
@Robert Stadler
Indeed. There's also the fact that there is less pressure on same-sex couples to marry, meaning that you cut out the whole cohort of different-sex marriages among people who really wouldn't have gotten married if they didn't feel like they had to. There's really no such thing as a shotgun gay marriage.
I found this article fascinating. However, one thing it doesn’t address is the extent of traditional “men’s work” that’s done within any given heterosexual marriage. My husband and I have a traditional division of labor, but I don’t resent the laundry and the dishes because he works hard too. We have horses and a pasture that he maintains. The guy can fix anything and he does, whereas I don’t have a mechanical bone in my body. He prunes the fruit trees and tills my big organic garden, and today he’s installing a new propane stove to replace a wood-burner in the nearby cabin we were lucky enough to buy this past summer. Because of his stressful and well-paying job, I was able to go part time near the end of my teaching career, and then retire early. I think about that when I’m folding his clothes.
It’s hard to resent doing housework when I know he puts in as many hours as I do. If he was plopped in front of the TV every night while I was doing the dishes, well, that would be another matter.
It would be interesting to compare urban, suburban, and rural levels of hetero marital satisfaction, because urban life has eliminated so much traditional men’s work. I wonder if there’s a correlation between tension in a marriage and the number of hours the husband spends shoveling snow, mowing grass and other typical guy jobs.
248
@Rural Girl Such an insightful comment and questions! I also think about revisiting this topic with couples who have been "married" 20+ years. Overall, we can all learn from one another and how to become more flexible and communicative. Relationships are individual and we would be best served to learn about what general qualities and methods (behavior and communication skills) we apply in relating result in long-term success and happiness. I am willing to bet that key factors are not so different for same sex and heterosexual couples, ultimately.
8
@Rural Girl
It’s similar in my relationship. But what is challenging for me is that the jobs that I do tend to be more menial and involve less problem-solving and less novelty than the kinds of jobs that my husband does. The only exception to that is the financial work, which I do the bulk of. But it’s not the same. I could learn to mend a gate, fix the sink etc. but we’re always so pressed for time that it’s often just more efficient for him to just do it. I often feel like I am stagnating.
19
@Rural Girl
Very good points. I am in a same sex partnership (two women), but given that I’m the handier person, I tend to take on the majority of the traditionally male jobs and will argue that these are no less demanding. All the outdoor yard work, installing, assembling, fixing, maintenance of items falls on me (or traditionally the man). Men/we too also carry a “mental load” that is often attributed to women, such as remembering to change out the furnace filters or schedule car maintenance.
10
When I see straight couples – whether in the media, or among friends/family – I am always so thankful I don't have these traditional gender pressures in my life! In my relationship, we can decide who gets to do whatever. It doesn't matter who's who. It's so freeing. I am so proud and happy to be gay!
22
The data comparison here reminds me of the introduction to a book on mindfulness. How wonderful if we could all just see washing the dishes as washing the dishes. I now find it meditative and relaxing. Not a chore but a mantra.
Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.
18
Gay relationships just have way less rules. We have not been conditioned by normative expectations, Hollywood movies, etc. to have a singular "ideal" relationship with our partners.
Because we are able to define our own relationships, the stress to live up to any ideal does not exist.
14
Heterosexual marriage is encouraged by various (and sometimes subtle) social pressures, religion and related forces. Some of the marriages are fulfilling and joyous, some end up on an episode of "Cops" or "Forensic Files", and some are pairs of people checking off a box on their imagined life trajectory and tolerating each other in the process.
So of course any group who chooses to get married mostly absent of such pressures is far more likely to be choosing to be together and stay together because they actually want to be together.
That is the "secret" - people exercising freedom and agency.
18
As a lesbian I found this information very interesting. I have two comments.
First is an exclamation of shock and surprise that almost half of all children conceived in heterosexual marriages are unplanned. Married people can't figure out how to use contraceptives? Having a kid is such a minor deal that we can just leave it up to chance? Yikes.
Second is the study's observation that gay men have better emotional boundaries than lesbians and therefore their relationships tend to last longer. Speaking from experience, I think that's true. We women are socialized to be caregivers, and we tend to get codependent and over-involved in each others' lives. A bit more privacy and independence in a marriage, i.e., having separate friends, activities, and solitary pursuits, can go a long way in keeping a relationship on track. We could all take a lesson from the guys on this one.
83
I appreciate the call to action around re-thinking gender norms but was surprised this article was silent on income. A 2017 study showed that gay men now out-earn straight men on average, overcoming decades of discrimination. But lesbian, bi, and straight women still face a large gendered wage gap. Does the data cited in this article control for income? If not, it seems fair to assume that at least some of these differences come down to earning power: couples that can afford to hire cleaners are happier with their chore arrangements; they also have more time to spend with their kids. Higher earners are also less likely to divorce.
49
@Meg I agree that income plays a huge role and should be used as a control in this study. Those who have resources to pay for extra help, buys them time, and time equals freedom, and freedom reduces stress and resentment.
4
Very good and important points.
@Meg
Can you source that study? The studies I've read show that gay men are likelier to be impoverished than straight men. They are also more likely to take jobs that have been traditionally gendered as female (grade school teaching, nursing, etc.).
1
"Women in different-sex marriages reported the highest levels of psychological distress. Men in same-sex marriages reported the lowest." Both can be explained by the fact that most men prefer and need the company of other men. When women gain a foothold in any social group or professional field, the men disappear. I am a feminist, but facts are facts. The nuclear family is simply not the ideal--most women who are primarily dependent on the company of a man for validation will be spend lives of loneliness and disappointment, with much of their potential wasted.
10
Pretty elitist viewpoint overall. I would separate categories and compare heterosexual and same sex marriages separately. In my opinion they are not comparable because one have two different genders while another is composed from same gender. There are happy and unhappy marriages in both categories. Ultimately people get out of marriage what they put in. That is same for both categories.
3
The reactions here confirm something I have long understood: that society's overwhelming heterosexist bias leads more than a few straight people to be incredulous, resentful, even angry at the suggestion that their "choice'" of style may not be the happiest state of humankind. Still, if straight people are not even curious about what they might learn from the unprecedented phenomenon of same-sex marriage, I think I understand why they are not happier.
12
The author confirms a situation we've acknowledged for decades. There's nothing new here except the same sex marriage data conditions to compare to heterosexual marriages. The author skips a major factor in her assessment of the comparison: the individuals involved have all the responsibility for the conditions which describe their union , and no one else . Loving relationships are a learned behavior each individual must accomplish well . The variables here are toooo great to allow the generalizations the author comes to.
1
This year my wife and I will be married 47 years. We married when we were 21, knew absolutely nothing about building and maintaining relationships, and the over/under betting in our families for how long it would last was 2 years.
I don't know exactly how we did it, but there are a few things that are directly related to this article, starting with the idea that if you are a truly autonomous person, socially imposed gender roles simply don't matter. Not they don't exist... they don't matter. For example, I like a well-prepared meal and a spotless kitchen, so I cook and clean. It has nothing to do with who "should", it has everything to do with my desires.
To be sure, there are many things neither of us like to do, one of them being house cleaning. At various times we've solved this by either not cleaning the house until neither of us could stand it and then doing it together, or hiring a house cleaner when we could afford it. Again, this has nothing to do with whose job it is, it has to do with how much dirt we're willing to tolerate.
I know the answers are not as simple as this, and the longevity and stress level of a marriage is complex to manage. We've had our share. But expectations seems to be a major factor: Keep them low, and solve them for yourself. If you want a clean house and a well-cooked meal, then make it so.
27
@Jim
Don't generalize from your own preferences! I'm female, I've been married for 59 years, and I do most of the housework. Which you say that you and your spouse both dislike.
But I love some aspects! and the one phrase that stuck out to me in this article was "the numbing work that must be done each day." I love ironing, and we use ironed cloth napkins daily! I love hanging the wash out to dry and resent winter snow, when I have to use the dryer. And I love shopping for food and cooking, and now (realizing that no one else is going to do them, don't mind doing the dishes.
The one thing I do not like is house-cleaning, and after about 45 years of a neat but not really clean house we finally broke down and hired a cleaning lady,
1
@Jerry
Don't let snow stop you from hanging your wash to dry! I use a collapsible drying rack indoors for everything but sheets. The dryer winter air helps clothes dry relatively quickly.
There are plenty of fathers who want an expanded role in the upbringing of their child, but honestly the deck is stacked against us.
Primary education is rife with caretaker bias. I read nightly with my child and have read thousands of children's books. The modern father is disgustingly underrepresented. Hardly any books portray a father as an equal or primary caretaker, a consoling figure, or an emotional problem solver.
Their homework assignments are even worse with hardly any representation of fathers in general. I have actually resorted to replacing "Mom" with "Dad" on assignments just to get some semblance of recognition.
On top of that, many Mom's don't want to give up the primary caretaker stereotype. Personally, when I tried to be more emotionally supportive and spend more time with my child, I got push back from my wife. If my child showed any preferrerence to me as a consoling figure or a play partner, my wife would get jealous. Without knowing it she started to overcompensate and ended up promoting these gender-based stereotypes even further. When trying to discuss it she would get dismissive and say things like "kids need their mother more." These mindsets are not nature, but are rather nurtured through stereotypes. Other fathers have described similar situations as well.
I think we need to address primary education as well if we want to expand the role of fathers in childrearing.
24
Gay men spending more time with their kids prove that apparently it’s possible for men to do it, even though fathers are underrepresented in children’s literature. Quite possibly the books are more a reflection of reality than the other way round. And for the second part of your comment, women not wanting to give up the last area where they have some power might have something to do with it. This might be especially true for women who have already taken on the traditional role of a full time caretaker. If she feels like you’re taking away her sole area of (perceived) expertise, the only sector where she is the boss, it most likely won’t come as a relief.
I know many women who are working full time (as many hours as their partners), paying half of the bills, having very down to earth expectations when it comes to housework (as people who work full time tend to do), and are still having a hard time getting their male partners to do their fair share of chores, and not for a lack of trying.
4
@Alex
I appreciate your comment and I'll work backwards to address it. In dual income homes, I don't think your position holds water. Especially when you consider that women traditionally do not partake in regular maintenance type house work. In my experience, in dual income households men definitely perform the same household chores (maybe not in proportion) in addition to
regular and unexpected maintenance tasks which are duly ignored.
Making a comparison for a between a non-working mother to a working father is a wholly unfair comparison especially when you consider school aged kids. I'm not discounting stay at home mothers, but after +8hrs of home related work plus transportation, whatever is left over should be quantified equally to determine which equitability. So your point about traditional full-time caretaker is not only moot but also promotes the stereotype.
As for literature, in my anecdotal experience, Moms were represented in about ~90% of books and assignments. However, according this article the split of housework and child-focused time between female and male is both ~60/40. Even if 90% is too high, a representation of 80% or even 70% is not commensurate with your "reflection of reality" of 60/40. And that doesn't include male dominated of household maintenance tasks.
Finally, gay men spending more time with their kids helps prove my point as they are not burdened with gender-normative roles promoted by straight wives/mothers.
Very interesting article, though I think it missed some salient stressors, and glossed over some distinctions.
For one thing, the article didn’t discuss the effect of pregnancy and childbirth on the mother. This is a very consuming biological process. Pregnant mothers see their bodies change, experience a surge of hormones, and deal with lingering effects for years after giving birth. These changes affect their sleep, their status at work and in the world, their physical appearance and their psychological body image, and all of these changes put huge amounts of stress on relationships and women’s quality of life. A more welcoming and supportive culture for new and expectant matters might go a long way toward mitigating these stresses.
Because there are fewer cultural precedents, gay couples are forced to self define their roles within relationships and how they divvy up the work. But we are mistaking equitable for complementary. In any relationship, individuals tend to gravitate toward roles and duties they are naturally suited for. Washing the dishes doesn’t stand for anything. A typical heterosexual married woman may resent washing the dishes just as much as a typical heterosexual married man may resent being the one who gets up in the middle of the night to check out a suspicious sound (bat in hand). There’s horrible stressful work on both sides of cliche gender norms. The main thing making women unhappy, it seems to me, is the horrible way our society treats women.
26
So yet another confirmation of what prior research indicated: hetero women get the short end of the stick in marriage. They are more stressed, their life expectancy is shorter, their earnings suffer. Every married woman knows this firsthand, which is why re-marriage rates for divorced women are much lower than those for divorced men, women are not looking to repeat the experience. As more women catch on to this trend early on in their lives we may have some "leftover men" problem.
21
Men generally do not love longer. If you ever go to assisted living or independent living you will hardly see any men.
@Sophie K second marriage...the triumph of hope over experience...
1
The happiest couples split homekeeping and childcare duties? I guess that means these couples also split financial expenses too? Perhaps both have a career, or there is enough inherited wealth neither have a career.
@Non Applicable Yes, that's exactly how it's done when both spouses need to work.
7
I (gay man) recently vacationed with long-time friends (straight couple). I expected to do my share of the chores in our rented condo, but was surprised that the lady did the majority. She was up washing dishes before I even finished eating. She did a load of laundry, whereas I had intended to stretch my clothes for the duration. She would begin food prep before the guys even thought about eating. I couldn't match her pace and couldn't get her to delegate chores to me before doing them herself. I actually would have preferred to do more.
16
@Jomo Sometimes jumping up to do chores while others are still kicking back is a way of masking anxiety.
By traditional standards, men and women have many differences, biologically and environmentally; gay couple are less likely to have many of these differences (Henry Higgins once asked "why can't a woman be more like me?"). Homosexuals are also more likely to be open with their feelings in personal relationships, except for anger, which they tend to repress, or express carefully. It can also be more difficult for homosexuals to find partners because the homosexual population is smaller than the heterosexual population, and discrimination encourages many of them to hide their sexuality, so salvaging a relationship can be easier than finding a new one.
3
As an older gay man, who could not get married until recently, it appeared to me that straight people were pressured to get married. It was what they were supposed to do instead of what they wanted to do. It seemed that some people tried to fit the mold of marriage and kids before they were ready. Like following a road map and not planning for obstacles the journey might bring or really considering if that is the destination they want.
37
@Andy Maxwell Great point. Straight people feel an enormous amount of pressure to get married and have babies, and/or it happens by accident. Conversely, societal pressure on gay people is for us to stay unmarried and certainly not to have children, even today. So, for the most part, we gay people don't get married and don't have children unless we REALLY want this. Therefore, this dynamic will naturally result in gay couples being more likely to be happily married.
21
@Andy Maxwell so true...the map is NOT the terrain...
1
Did the study cited at the beginning of this article control for children in the picture? I can't see the full methodology since it's behind a paywall.
If it didn't control for kids, that 's a huge issue. Children are a big stressor on relationships. If more of the hetero couples in the study had kids than the gay couples did, that could explain the entire findings!
9
@Kas
Try to read the whole article and your question will be answered. Of course children are factored into the picture. It's a huge, fundamental issue.
@Kas Of course there was no control for children, let alone other factors that may apply. In today's PC world it is just understood that, somehow, someway, same sex spouses feel more satisfied than heterosexual. Everyone/everything except what pertains to straight white males is simply "better." Duh!
1
@Maggie Of course gay/lesbian are “better” parents, All protected class members are just “better” people, to say otherwise is obviously “homophobic.” PC eye-roll please
“Like heterosexual couples with children, same-sex parents often have one partner quit or cut back at work for a while. Gay-male couples have about the same percentage of stay-at-home parents as do heterosexuals.”
Now THAT’s telling. About persistent gender-/sex-based wage discrimination.
Female same-sex marriages don’t even get a mention in the discussion of this metric. That’s likely because as a result of lasting sex discrimination, women are still paid less then men working the same job and with the same (or lower) level of education, experience, productivity, and achievement, whether straight, gay, or something else.
26
@Her Yes—economics has absolutely got to affect the findings here, along with a panoply of other social locators, including race.
4
With marriage becoming more and more self-selecting, a complete picture needs to include unmarried couples cohabiting. Marriage is slowly becoming more and more upper middle class and higher, with lower middle class couples becoming less likely to marry.
Said another way, if you sorted the heterosexual marriages by age, would you see the trends found in the gay couples more frequently (since, like gay couples, young straight couples are opting in to marriage rather than defaulting into it)?
6
Why don't you consider heterosexual couples where the dad is the primary caregiver and the mom is the wage earner? That seems more like a fair match to heterosexual traditional roles. This seems like a more fair comparison than to gay couples. I have seen that women are much more interested in taking care of children and will actually hinder men from getting involved. Have you ever been to class gatherings organized and run by the Moms? Ever been to class gatherings organized and run by Dads?
9
I have seen several different versions of this article recently, and one thing that seems to be a glaring omission is the number of hours worked on average between the partners. In a marriage where one spouse works a full-time professional job requiring 40-60 hours per week and the other spouse doesn't work outside the home or works part-time, should those couples still strive for equality when it comes to household chores? If so, how is that equitable?
I agree that couples with relatively equal work schedules should also work towards equitable division of household duties, but that isn't the default, and pretending that it is makes the results of these studies misleading.
24
This is interesting research, especially given the unfounded arguments against same-sex marriage or allowing same-sex couples to adopt. However, understanding the underlying reasons for these findings is a complex and non-trivial exercise; indeed, there are many variables to consider. For example, many gay people grew up in a time when homosexuality was not as widely discussed and featured in mainstream media as it is today. So while many of their hetero counterparts saw models of their future romantic lives all around them, gay people did not have such a reference. This contributes to differences in the emotional and psychological development of gay people versus hetero people. So perhaps one of the reasons same-sex couples report higher satisfaction is due to less precise expectations, whether conscious or subconscious, which allows them to approach relationships in a more open and flexible manner. It is certainly an interesting area for researchers.
4
Good point.
I think as a gay man in a 37 year relationship bonding was necessary so you figured it out. We did not come into it with expectations. We did not have a manual and biologically we better understand our partners. Sex in many cases are satisfied in ways not always acceptable by straight couples. We are also fortunate to have helped father two children with a friend who raises them. Again we did not have a book but we have worked through the development of not only the kids but ourselves
.
Perhaps the real takeaway is coming into a relationship with an open mind and a willingness to empathize with your partner. Communication is key as is adaptability. I do think you Marry and then you marry agin when you have children. The couple and dynamics change and so should the relationship.
2
So - here is what we actually know about the length and success of hetero, gay and lesbian marriages from actual data.
Males in same sex and hetero marriages have similar success and divorce rates.
Lesbian couple divorce at twice the rate of the other two comparators.
Of the sampled lesbian couples who were married in 2005, 30% were divorced ten years later compared to 18% for heterosexual couples and 15% for gay male couples.
So - maybe the headline could be a bit more accurate: "What lesbian marriages could learn from their male counterparts"
23
@SteveRR see a YouTube version of Alan Kings ‘Survived by his Wife!’...why did women live longer than men then? Because they weren’t married to women! But now, not so much...
1
The bottom line is, Who cares?
Among my friends and family are both supremely loyal and loving gay couples and devoted, happy straight couples.
I've met couples of both sorts whose relationships were nightmares.
All families are pretty much happy in the same way and for the same reasons; the unhappy ones have myriad problems.
The New York Times should, at this point, have more important topics to investigate and write about.
24
@B. Evidently, you cared enough to read and comment on the article. News flash: there is lots of research and investigations conducted that you might not personally care about, but are interesting and meaningful in their own right. Your personal anecdotes and subjective opinions are not equivalent to data.
9
To Maggie and HB,
No, no nerve struck at all. As I say, I have all my life had examples of loving, loyal gay couples to look to, as well as my parents' and aunts' happy heterosexual marriages. And I've seen very messy relationships both gay and straight.
Of course I read the article. I read lots of articles. But after finishing them, I can still say "So what?" about many of them. Don't you?
The Times really has more important things to report on than the relative happiness of gay and straight couples.
More important is that the strides our society has made towards marriage equality can easily be wiped out in the next year. And that is definitely not a "So what?" to me and to the people I love.
2
@B as I read this, the author is outside the Times newsroom and is not paid to write for them or work for them. I don’t see that this wasted any Times resources that could have been used elsewhere.
1
‘Here’s where same-sex couples can offer their different-sex counterparts useful tips.’
I’m so glad to have a purpose in the privileged lives of straight people who seem to have nothing more important to do than whine about how much harder their lives are.
First she says SS couples don’t face gender stereotypes like straights and then she says we do. Gender, orientation, they seem to be very fluid terms as they change meaning from paragraph to paragraph depending upon the point she’s trying to make.
My husband and I have been together 41 years and we’re one of California’s original 18000 married couples. Reading this article I would think we’ve never faced any discrimination. That no one in America is trying dilute or nullify our marriage.
Every straight person I have ever met views their marriages as superior to ours. The ones who claim otherwise are lying to us and/or themselves.
SS couples keep internalising this as well, which brings me to my final point. I don’t know the orientation of this writer, but do know the orientation she is writing for.
10
I’m a single gay man, but nearly every one of the married gay couples I know spent a long time together before they married (because they had to). There was a much longer lead time in determining if “we are a couple” than I see in the heterosexual community. I also think it’s very informative that there aren’t “accidental” pregnancies in gay unions. Children are a much discussed and planned for/paid for activity rather than sometimes being a “night out” that got out of hand. Gay families also tend to be smaller, one or maybe two children, meaning the children are wanted and are the absolute focus of the couple — which shows in the data presented here. That’s not to say I don’t know successful straight married couples with happy well adjusted children. They are plentiful (ordinary families raising happy children tend to not make the news).
Did gay marriage “ruin” straight marriage? Not in the way most opponents expected. Instead it revealed what was wrong in their own marriages.
123
As a happily married woman (to a straight man) I know the answer to this one. Do not marry someone who isn't willing to treat you like an equal. the end.
425
@Justice: Without defining equal, your advice is a normative demand. Like saying you go outdoors only when the weather is right, meaning much to you; less to others. Equality, like weather, varies with circumstances. If you are a justice or a lawyer, you know the meaning of ambiguous; if otherwise, are entitled to know. But, congratulations, you have no problem.
5
@MAX L SPENCER
We know equality, respect and integrity when we see it.
7
@MAX L SPENCER The fact that the feeling of being equals is subjective is entirely the point. The currency of any relationship is how it makes you FEEL.
6
Fewer have children than heterosexual couples. Children challenge a relationship.
18
@Judy Petersen I think the distinction is that fewer have unwanted children, or children they can't afford.
For a gay couple, adoption or IVF is a long and expensive proposition that they won't go through unless both really want to do so. Straight couples can end up with a kid after a night of netflix and chill.
Children are less of a challenge for financially stable couples who are all in on raising a child, straight or gay. This is reflected in better outcomes for college educated straight couples who have children over those who have them earlier and end up under enormous financial strain.
The lesson here is don't have kids until you are ready, if you are straight please please please use protection.
18
There is so much wrong with this article I won't be able to fit it all here. Anyone married for 5 years or less is still in the honeymoon stage. "Historical reasons?" What is that? I studied social science and "historical reasons" were never mentioned. The "historical reasons" mentioned are an assumption. I have known many housewives (not as many as once I did) who thoroughly dominate a household/marriage. Polyandry? Riiight, that's a huge factor in my marriage, I assume yours too. Husbands taking control of sex, money and behavior? Sounds like another assumption.
I could go on and on. How about the fact that same sex couple have to really want children and go far out of their way to have them? They plan for kids whereas hetero couples often just have them, over and over. Why assume "historical reasons" rather than biological which is unchanging through history and across culture? I know biological differences are not pc, but that doesn't mean they're not real. You can't say there's a gay gene but no differences between sexes on a continuum.
20
I'm a middle aged, hetero female, raised near and now living in NYC, married for 10 years, stepparent to one child who lives with us full time. My life experience just doesn't fit with this article at all. During my own childhood my dad did his full share of cooking, cleaning and general household work (both dad and mom worked). Prior to my marriage, my boyfriends in several long term relationships were completely comfortable with cooking and cleaning tasks and yes, they undertook them regularly. My husband is the most focused and productive laundry and dish do-er I've ever met! He is also an extremely hands on dad to his child. Bio mom is not particularly interested in parenting at all, by the way.
I just can't believe that my experience is so unusual. It is tiring to find the heterosexual male yet again blamed for so much that is wrong with marriage and family.
The silliest line in this article was the one about how gay and lesbian parents are less likely to produce unwanted kids during the course of their marriages. Gee, I wonder why?!?
20
@Louise Yes and No. I am the work from home dad who also does not fit the mold. My wife travels for work as a busy executive and I am the housekeeper and chef. These arrangements do exist; but, flipping the work/home roles is not the norm. I was fired from my last job because I was not spending 55+ hours in the office. I have worked with many younger guys who have children and go home to play video games every evening. I assure you they are not worrying about the dishes.
18
@Louise
Agreed, there seems to be many potential limitations to this study and not sure who it's relevant for, are we all supposed to hunt down same sex couples and ask how to be more like them? Like, "oh so you do the dishes more, cuz you're a guy married to another guy - I should do that more" - turn to wife - "right honey?"
Oh man that'd be really bizarre.
@Louise
Agreed, there seems to be many potential limitations to this study and not sure who it's relevant for, are we all supposed to hunt down same sex couples and ask how to be more like them? Like, "oh so you do the dishes more, cuz you're a guy married to another guy - I should do that more" - turn to wife - "right honey?"
Oh man that'd be really bizarre.
If sexuality is not a choice, as we frequently hear, what is the point of this comparison? The takeaway is that heterosexual people should abandon their miserable partnerships and marriages and find a same-sex partner/spouse in order to be happy but how does that work when one is “born straight?”
9
Did you read the same article as me?
The article was in no way shape or form encouraging readers to ‘change’ their sexuality. It was offering insight in how outdated stereotypes can negatively affect marriages; how different couples divy up household chores, navigate arguments and handle child care.
The take away I got was that straight men need to help out more across all fronts, lesbians could use a little more emotional restraint and gay men (who seem to be killing it at parenting) need to not allow masculine tendencies to escalate during fights.
No need to ‘become’ gay or vice versa. The article encourages us to open our eyes and ears. To have more open dialogue with our partners and to share responsibilities fairly, communicate our sexual and emotional needs clearly - whatever that may be for us individually.
113
@Lynn in DC Hmmmm...I sure didn’t see the part of the article that said that. Can you point that out to us?
1
@Lynn in DC --- there's missing the point, and then there's ducking out of the way to make sure the point misses YOU.
Sexuality is not a choice, but talking who is going to wash the dishes is.
8
My observation among straight, middle-aged, relatively affluent couples in Manhattan is that many women married men who are very good providers and fathers, but not nearly as emotionally open or sophisticated as they are and over the years they have often grown frustrated with the lack of intimacy or the failure of the relationship to evolve because of their partner's emotional limitations. This, it seems to me, is infinitely more important than who spends more time doing the dishes.
In cases where the male partner is not as emotionally sophisticated and also not a good provider, the couple is either divorced or miserable.
43
My observation among straight, middle-aged, relatively affluent couples in Manhattan is that many women married men who are very good providers and fathers, but not nearly as emotionally open or sophisticated as they are and over the years they have often grown frustrated with the lack of intimacy or the failure of the relationship to evolve because of their partner's emotional limitations. This, it seems to me, is infinitely more important than who spends more time doing the dishes.
In cases where the male partner is not as emotionally sophisticated and also not a good provider, the couple is either divorced or miserable.
3
In my experience a lot of this is external. A man can be an ideal partner who fully believes in equality in the home, but that doesn't stop the external expectations on women-- that you are constantly the 'perfect' mom, make amazing dinners, take your kids to and from sports practice and/or activities, and so on. In American society, these expectations just aren't the same for men and a man is lauded for doing these things whereas a woman is likely still judged for whether she did it correctly. These expectations affect behavior. Similarly, fields of work that pay higher and which are traditionally male also require long hours, which bleeds into household questions of who's cooking dinner, doing the dishes despite everyone's best intentions. I believe it's also passed down through generations. A male partner whose mom did the bulk of the dishes, cleaning, laundry, and household labor may-- consciously or not-- expect the same from his eventual wife. Lots of cultural shifts are necessary to make an impact on any of this.
50
@Emily
Good comment. But in my experience part of the problem is that a lot of the “external expectations” on women to do more or to be “perfect” are either self-imposed, at least somewhat imaginary, or imposed by other women or female-dominated groups. It is a tough state of affairs and one that takes a lot of care work from male partners that probably goes unseen or unappreciated, just like a lot of care work provided by females to males is unseen and unappreciated by men as the article mentions.
“You wouldn’t worry so much about what other people think of you if you realize how little they did so.”
2
@Emily This has been my experience almost exactly. My wife and I are pretty equivalent in the tasks we split up (well, maybe 60/40, but I try!), but when I take our young kids out it the world without her people heap praise like I'm doing something abnormal. I had one person once say, "Superdad!" and give me a high five, because I had two kids in a stroller by myself. That is an extreme example, but more subtle kinds of encouragement happen all the time. And when I take them to the doctor without her? I'm treated like some kind of alien royalty. My wife has never reported anyone saying anything encouraging to her when she has them. It just is.
22
@Emily
I like your view Emily because it is not blaming anybody.
There are many challenges in life, but I'd bet for most of us one of the biggest is relationships. Of whatever nature.
What I've learned is that when I'm truly honest, what I see in another also resides on some level, subconscious at times, within me.
So all those faults and shortcomings we see in our partner reflect to some degree our own.
Straight or LGBT relationships offer an opportunity for each to help the other grow and evolve. It clearly requires honesty, caring, fair adult compromises and self reflection.
I don't think the sample size is large enough to conclude that one group is clearly superior to another.
It's a tough shared experience at times for most everyone, but also includes joy and love.
In my view honest self reflection is the key, by both partners. Good luck to all on their journey, whatever the form.
4
I am single and have been for the past 56 years or so. I do everything and always have. I don’t listen to myself but I also never have anything to say, so it all works out.
61
The words “husband“ and “wife“ have gender-specific origins In the English language.
If we care for accurate language use, the word that in English describes anyone’s partner in marriage without reference to gender is SPOUSE, which is also used in a number of other languages.
13
@citizennotconsumer The etymologies are very telling: husband = caretaker (think animal husbandry); wife = gift (think how some women make themselves up to look like presents, and think of themselves in this way also)
Not sure about the pre-teen reference, since many girls don’t have regular monthly menstruation until at least 13. Also, I know almost no one whose “fertile years” ended by the time she reached 30 (“...to the thirties,” doesn’t include the 30s) and almost all the women I know still menstruated into and often several years after their 40s.
Your data, like the attitude expressed in your comment, are outdated by at least 100 years.
11
Oops. My comment was a reply to an earlier comment by someone afraid of that hetero women will become something like the “handmaids” of a Marge Piercy dystopian story.
Also, there is much evidence to show that women were much happier in the 50's and even 70's when they were subject to the man's "authority." You might be surprised at how well relations get on in those types of relationships. Unfortunately the mainstream media and schools have been teaching women to completely reject traditional gender roles, which has effectively ruined the dynamics in many male female relationships.
11
@Ttt If people are happiest subscribing to traditional gender roles, that is totally up to them. However, I don't see many men being the sole providers for their families to allow women to fully focus on the domestic sphere. Dual-income households are basically the norm to keep up with all of the expenses related to raising a family.
18
@Ttt
Or perhaps many women of that generation were trained to hide or suppress their real thoughts and feelings and to respond to questions about their role or their happiness, especially coming from an outsider and/or authority figure like a (probably male) social scientist, with pleasantries and positivity. And why not — it was only the roof over their heads, their money and credit and social status and healthcare and food and at times their very life or limb that depended on putting on a happy face and giving sugar-coated answers those few times when their opinion was sought at all.
34
@Her Good catch. One of my now deceased women friends, who would be 96 if alive, had a career later in adulthood.
She described the 50's for women in suburbia as "booze, bridge and boredom."
14
A fascinating and informative article. I kept expecting to see something regarding a sexual differentiation between the satisfaction of heterosexual women and that of lesbian women, but it wasn't mentioned in this article. Why?
I know there will be a great deal of dissention regarding my contention here, but I feel the sexual satisfaction of lesbian women who are married also contributes to their overall happiness and willingness to work together on household chores and the minutia of life.
I think this aspect of cohabitation and co-parenting needs to be explored. Being sexually satisfied contributes to one's overall happiness and willingness to compromise. It should be mutual and equal.
So much regarding women and women and sex is left out of research. It's time we changed this, please.
6
@Pamela L.
"I feel the sexual satisfaction of lesbian women who are married also contributes to their overall happiness"
Three letters, LBD.
2
She did not mention HOW MANY couples were in each of the 3 sets of couples. Therefore there is no way to determine if her theory is true or not. I have seen much other research showing that it is not true. There have also been just as many divorces. But who cares. Even if it was true, I guarantee making a straight couple act more like gay people is not going to make them any happier or content together.
5
@Ttt From the linked study: "Method: The analyses are based on 10 days of dyadic diary data from 756 midlife U.S. men and women in 378 gay, lesbian, and heterosexual marriages. Multilevel modeling is used to examine the association of self‐ and spouse‐reported marital strain with psychological distress; actor‐partner interdependence models explore possible gender differences in these associations."
10
@Baxter
Although they don't mention controlling for potential confounders such as age, education, income, geography, length of marriage etc. Those are locked up, so it's still not clear the statistical power they are getting to resolve such signals in their data.
3
@Daniel
Not to mention that even rock-solid marriages and life-long romances go through rough patches, often for a lot longer than ten days.
1
Citing a research result from 14 years ago (2006), particularly of a quickly-shifting social dynamic, is not terribly compelling.
15
I'm a woman married to a man I dearly love and class and hands off parenting shaped our approach to house work more than gender. He grew up with hired help. People were hired to mow the lawn, clean the house, do home repairs, take away the dirty laundry and bring it back clean and pressed, etc. I grew up in an extended family one generation off the farm and my people pitch in and do everything themselves. The men darned socks, did dishes, fixed cars and built their own houses. My hubby has done a pretty good job of embracing some chores and learning skills. But that default assumption of his childhood, that someone will tend to it, is still strong.
27
Straight and married 45 years. My husband does the dishes. I cook. I do laundry now. He does garbage. We grocery shop together, and hire someone to clean. It seems to work.
35
@Marge That's more or less the same in our house and has been for many years. I don't think we ever talked about it, still less "negotiated". It's just how things have evolved over a long marriage where each spouse helps the other and bears a hand. Who wouldn't do that?
3
@John The only thing we talked about was hiring someone to clean. I knew it would fall to me, and I was no good at it. So we outsourced it. And never looked back. And I agree, who wouldn't share the burden? Isn't that love?
3
@Marge Yes, the older we get the more outsourcing we do. We've had a cleaning lady for the last few years, comes every two weeks for the heavier work and does a good job.
1
Ms. Coontz writes, "Another parenting advantage for gays and lesbians is that they seldom end up with an unintended or unwanted child, which is a risk factor for poor parenting. In 2011, the last year for which figures are available, 45 percent of pregnancies in America were unintended, and 18 percent were actually unwanted. If opponents of birth control and abortion continue to gain ground, same-sex parents may find themselves increasingly advantaged in this realm of family life." I have read this paragraph several times. Would future same-sex parents be "increasingly advantaged" because proportionately their children would be planned and wanted and sought after? And/or, does Ms. Coontz happily predict that same-sex parents would be increasingly "advantaged" because it might be easier for them to obtain babies to adopt? This paragraph is frightening in its implication for girls and women whose fertile years generally run from the pre-teens to the thirties. Girls and women who want a college education and a job and a partner with whom they have something in common will be further disadvantaged as "forced birth" right wing activists, who aren't really all that "pro-life" push against women's rights and dignity. Read from my perspective as a woman whose reproductive and brain health was damaged amid religious and legal gender bias, this article is much about gender bias yesterday vs gender bias today and, perhaps, tomorrow. I recommend Adrienne Rich's "Of Woman Born."
18
@Debra Merryweather
Ms. Koontz is clearly referring to the fact that when families lose their right to choose, there will be more unwanted children. In the case of a marriage, which is what the article is talking about, families can get stuck with children they didn't want.
Gay people have to deliberately choose children, and often have to go through a lot to get them. It's a deliberate choice, not an accident, and from a statistical point of view, it means that gay men will make the happiest parents for a long time to come.
If women had the right to choose, that would probably change and even itself out.
46
@Mark Gay men being the "happiest parents" for a long time to come might come at quite a cost to any choice-less mothers of the infants the gay men parent. My point was and remains: gender bias against women underlies much of the happiness differences Ms. Coontz depicts in her graphs and describes in her text. And, a choice at seven weeks of gestation is much different in its ramifications than sticking by a so-called adoption plan when one's child is born, one is making milk and one sees one's child. One size does not fit all in anything and women are not widgets.
3
@Debra Merryweather
Your comments seems to imply that the only way for gay men to become a family is through adopting 'unwanted' children. In fact, what I increasingly see in my country (The Netherlands, where, incidentally, abortions are free and easy to have in government funded clinics) is that gay men will team up with a single woman or a lesbian couple and have a child (or children) together. They form large, unconventional families that tend to work very well for everybody involved.
1
I don’t think my wife and I intended for our marriage to fall into traditional roles.
My wife was the primary breadwinner throughout the first few years of our marriage and I did the majority of housework. But when my wife lost her job when our first daughter turned one, we decided to swap. It was the perfect opportunity for to be with our small child, who needed her more than me at the time. Our daughter refused the bottle, so even when my wife tried to go back to work and pump, the decision to stay at home made more sense for our family.
She went back to work part time as our daughter grew older, but because my full time job offered us the security and insurance we needed, we didn’t want another parent to also work a full time job. We decided that one parent at home was better than putting our child in daycare. Could we have switched roles again? Certainly, but our job situation made it easier to stay the course.
Now with a second daughter, I continue to work full time. While I do chores as much as I can at home (I do all laundry and share in cooking and cleaning) I also drop any dish I’m doing if my daughters want to play. This is because my time at home is less and we believe being with the kids is the most important job we have. Thus, a messy house!
I’ll never equal my wife in terms of the time she has at home, either doing chores or being with the kids. But traditional doesn’t mean bad as long as it’s a true partnership.
37
@NYLAkid
Statistics, Sir. Traditional marriage doesn't mean bad, but it does come with more baggage than non-traditional, may come with statistical tendencies to be less happy. Meaning while there are definitely a lot of good traditional marriages, there is a larger percentage o them that are less happy (although your marriage sounds straight, not traditional).
Divorce, for instance, didn't lead to more happy marriages, but it did lead to less unhappy ones. Therefore statistically, Marriages got happier after divorce, because the sample and therefore the average changed.
The one big flaw in the analysis is the sample. Most straight people get married, but among gay people, it may be that only the best of us do. That would unfairly bias the sample in favour of wealthy, educated, happy, successful gay men and women.
Doesn't invalidate her point, but might make it less true.
5
@NYLAkid
You two need to pay for housecleaners. Then both could play with children and both would have lighter chores.
3
Married 47 years. I agree with the division of household duties being a problem however now that my husband and I are both retired there's more equality in the jobs we do. It continues to evolve. For us it always came down to who had the most flexible time. Working in education I had summers off so the task of yard work fell to me (the majority still does) but I also enjoyed the work so there's that. It's a conversation for sure but in my experience it's a winnable equation
10
My background is Iranian-American. When I was dating women (mostly Iranian women), there was so much that was expected of me (financially and otherwise) and there was little that I could expect of them in return. It was asymmetrical and made me resentful.
I'm now with an American man, and we don't expect anything from one another. We just do things out of love and caring. He cooks more often because he likes to. I usually wash the dishes. When I cook, I wash the dishes and it's not a big deal. I've never had things thrown at me or been yelled at or nagged at or accused.
18
Marriage is the problem. I have been happy in a 30 year old relationship with a man. No legal ties, just mutual respect.
21
Wait until one of you requires surgery and the hospital will not allow you to make decisions for each other.
Or the funeral home either.
6
Is it possible that many heterosexual couples marry young because of an unplanned pregnancy, societal expectations, or economic need? Meanwhile same-sex couples marry when they want to and for reasons that seem compelling.
I have seen young people who married—or began living together—before they were emotionally capable of the level of responsibility and consideration that marriage requires.
I suspect that young, single gay people don't have the constant pressure to "settle down"—in the case of women, fear that they will stay single and childless too late.
59
@Jim Casey Excellent points. It will be interesting in the future to track differences in male gay couples who marry young in that burst of sexual energy as they turn 18 and those who play around a while before settling down and thus are older and more mature and know what they are looking for in a partner than the young marrieds. Sowing those wild oats may be a good thing for later marriage happiness.
12
In our gay partnership, a balanced dynamic seems to have naturally evolved:
My husband makes the messes, and I clean them up.
Since we've been together for 21+ years, I guess it works well for us.
49
In my experience, the most egalitarian relationships are those that involve roughly the same income and age, and the same gender.
19
Based on my experience, I see the problem for hetereosexual couples like this:
Boys learn everything from observing their fathers. My father loved my mother, but he also verbally and psychologically mistreated her; he was impatient with her, and generally thought she was not competent. He was NOT considerate of her feelings and perhaps most importantly NEVER thought about how his behaviour might affect others.
I inherited the last miserable trait, and because I never even once imagined that it might be a problem, it took years of psychotherapy to learn to be different, and I was a changed man by the time I got married.
Ironically, my marriage collapsed because it was my ex-wife who behaved toward me like my father behaved toward my mother. And there was nothing I could do to persuade her to seek counseling. Her father was a textbook case narcissist, and she was the same way. Fortunately, our kids came out great, just like me... probably because I spent most of the time raising them.
56
I'm a gay man married to a man for 17 years (together for 20). He does most of the housework much to my embarrassment and guilt. It could be because I was married to a woman before and he was not, but I just think I'm more comfortable with mess than he is so he springs into action earlier than I would. I does enjoy cooking more than I do, even though I am a good cook. However, when he asks me to please pitch in, I ask him what he wants me to do and I make sure it is done. He wishes I didn't need to be asked or told but it is what it is. When my ex-wife asked, I felt attacked and left the house. I work from home. I suppose whether it is fair, when he asks I feel like he legitimately wants help and if he comes home to a messy house where I have been all day it makes him feel bad. She never asked. She demanded, and was enraged that I could not read her mind. The one lesson I am trying to teach my daughter (and to help her unlearn what her mother taught her) is that if you want something in a relationship you must ask for it. It is inherently wrong to assume that in a good relationship your partner will "just know". Nor is it valid to get angry at someone for not being able to read your mind.
69
@Jonny Walker
"He wishes I didn't need to be asked or told but it is what it is. When my ex-wife asked, I felt attacked and left the house."
So interesting.
When a woman asked, it was a personal attack, but when a man asked, it's different?
Ignore the one (or leave so requests can't be made) so you could train her to quit asking?
I'm sure both of your spouses wish you noticed their needs without asking, but as you say, it is what it is.
45
@Jonny Walker
The mind-reading comment strikes a chord. My wife often does not ask me for help when she wants it but still expects it. Sometimes I will even ask her what she would like me to do but still can't get it out of her. She thinks I should know.
Our son, who is now 17, sometimes smiles and shakes his head when she does this. He too thinks it's oddly inefficient.
3
@Jonny Walker I agree that people need to ask for what they want in relationships, not expect their partner to read their mind.
But it has also been well-documented that a big part of the "emotional load" of running a household is keeping track of everything that needs to be done. A partner who only fulfills those requests assigned to him (or, theoretically, her - usually him) is not carrying half of the weight, even if he thinks he is doing half of the work. Take a look: https://english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/
19
I am a woman who has had a rather unique experience of being married to both women and men. I am married to a woman now for 5 years, and it is more satisfactory by far than when I was married to my ex-husband 8 years. None of my relationships involved children, and most gay relationships still have no kids involved, which lowers stress levels greatly in relationships. There are fewer money and time management issues and less housework without kids. Even in the most egalitarian heterosexual relationships, the unspoken undercurrent of "men's" vs. "women's" work still exists. Women are often expected to do it all: work full time, take care of the bulk of the housework and childcare, and be a happy, supportive spouse as well. It's little wonder they eventually decide being divorced is actually an easier option for them. Many husbands are equal partners in the mammoth challenge of running a household, but a lot are not. I take care of the majority of the housework but my wife brings home most of the money because I am disabled and my work hours are limited. We are happy with this. It is more traditional than most lesbian relationships in which both spouses usually work full time. When I was with my husband, we both worked full time at high stress jobs but I divorced him partly because of lack of equality in the division of household duties. Even without kids, partners need to feel they have equal roles in marriage to reduce resentment.
21
I’ve counseled close to 100 couples, mostly in a professional capacity, but also informally, and while this is all anecdotal, my experience differs from the article.
Yes, particularly in het relationships with children, the responsibilities shouldered by women tend to be far more than the men and can quickly lead to problems.
But in regard to dating and relationships, whether het or same-sex, its hard to find compatible partners, hard to get along, cohabitate, etc.
One of the big reasons is a dearth of role models regarding positive, healthy, constructive interpersonal communication and conflict resolution skills. People just don’t have them or worse, have learned through negative examples, unconstructive, damaging interpersonal and conflict resolution skills.
Learning how to fight, what behaviors work better than others, what to strictly avoid, etc., is essential to long-term successful, healthy, supportive relationships. What to avoid?
A lack of emotional regulation during an argument. If you are above a 5 on a 10-point emotional intensity scale, time for a time out. There should be a zero-tolerance policy for swearing & name calling. Intense conversations should be conducted with everyone sitting down.
Get couples counseling *before* things get really bad - counseling shouldn’t be the option of last resort, but among the first, evidence of a couple’s love for each other and valuing their relationship.
.
56
A professional relationship counselor will encounter a greater percentage of those couples who have serious problems. Thus it is highly skewed sample and not an accurate reflection of the universe of all couples.
10
@Spanker /Unclear if you're talking about the article or my post?
The relationship advice I note in the above post applies to all couples/intimate relationships.
.
1
I want to add that past a "5" on a 10-pt emotional intensity scale, neurological resources (oxygen, nutrients, etc.) start getting shunted away from the front lobe (where good judgement, high-order perceiving and thinking occur) to the Amygdala (fight, flight or freeze). Thus, past a 5 and arguments start not being very constructive.
The thing about not swearing, name calling and everyone sitting down are all strategies to help everyone regulate their emotions. Anything that gets the heart rate up should be avoided as it can intensify one's emotional activation state, which in the case of intense conversations will already likely be heightened.
Finally, good luck ! Its tough out there finding and keeping good people in our lives, intimate and otherwise, and being able to argue well (constructive, healthy, supportive, etc.) can help keeping good partners, good friends....
.
1
Let the bell toll for the opponents of marriage equality, adoption equality, women's rights, and reproductive freedom. The only way to defend the family and marriage is to expand and protect these rights, not stand against them.
108
@Christopher Hemingway rolls in his grave.
Everything matters. Everything you do matters, including dish washing. Think of it as a prayer as you do it, an appreciation to the universe that gave you this moment and this food, thankful for many things, thankful that you had the food that millions don't have. You may not have grown or raised the food, but now you get to touch the last of what remains. I'm an old man now, and when I wash my dishes I see my grandmother's hands. Hers were warm from the many chores of the day: cooking, sewing, cleaning, care giving. Mine are cold, now briefly warmed. If you believe that everything matters, then there's no need to hurry. Be here now, as someone once said.
Annoyance over dish washing may be transference from something else, something unresolved. Best to communicate.
352
@Alton I agree. The line that stood out to me most from the article was the description of housework as "the numbing work that must be done each day." Like it's a burden to make your home a comfortable, clean, and relaxing place for yourself and your family? What would you be doing otherwise, living in a pile of trash and eating fast food?
11
@Maggie Yes, it's easy for the person doing all those things to recognize the benefits that come from the work. Unfortunately, the person being paid handsomely for their work outside the home learns very quickly to dismiss those domestic chores as bothersome and unimportant. At some point, living in a mess and eating fast food begins to look like an attractive alternative.
15
@Alton What you say is more or less straight out of the book 'The Miracle of Mindfulness by Thich Nhat Hanh'. It so happens I despise dishwashing, and I think in my instance it's because I never have a sense of 'accomplishment', the same way I do when I clean the bathroom. Every time I turn around, there's yet another dish in the sink, requiring washing. It also doesn't help matters that the kitchen sink in my rental apartment faces a corner. Blech! (What I wouldn't do for a sink that faces a window with the garden beyond!)
But anyway, in the book I mention above, the author suggests that we don't just robotically wash dishes, but that we enjoy the physical process....the feeling of the warm water...the soft soap suds....the scrubbing motion of our hands.... the squeaky clean sound when rinsing... the shiny gleam of the plate as we stack in the drying rack... etc.
3
Are there so few men left who still do the maintenance on their homes, who mow the yard, paint their homes, clean the gutters, fix whatever is broken, maintain the automobiles, and do some of the housework? My wife and I are 70. If she cooks, I do the dishes and vice versa. We both do the laundry and the vacuuming. She makes the bed, I take out the trash and recycling. It is not always an even split, but it works well almost all the time. We share an implicit understanding that there is X amount of work to be done and it all has the same value. Having said all this, she DID have most of the responsibility for child rearing and we were both working. I am glad to see more dads today sharing this important job.
125
@WHS
In order for maintenance to be efficient, effective, and rewarding, you have to be good at it. If you are not participating in it is often worse than useless. These are perishable skills that you have to dedicate yourself to consistently. Time is in short supply. I think if you don’t grow up learning those skills they are hard to acquire them late in life.
6
@WHS I (female) like doing maintenance work and painting. I love nothing more than assembling a piece of furniture. I like buying tools. My husband does the bulk of the cooking, though I do some on weekends.
He enjoys yard work, even though I routinely tell him we can hire someone.
We pretty much split it by who likes doing what. He will never clean a bathroom though - that is a battle I gave up.
2
Some great insights here, I just wish the researchers resisted to boiling all male female differences down to socialization. It's the hip way to see the world, but haven't can't we get over that faddish, demonstrably untrue notion yet? There are really physiological differences at play, and denying they exist helps no one.
20
@Charles There are no physiological differences that impact playing with your kids, doing the shopping, washing dishes, planning a budget, or discussing a problem. Apart from pregnancy and lactation,everything is up for discussion.
65
@Charles
There are, as you say, physiological differences involved—specifically, the respective ratio of testosterone and estrogen in each sex—but the effect these have on emotional life is relatively small compared to that of socialization and how our individual behaviors are modeled on those we see around us (especially that of our parents). Further, this is not 'fad' thinking of a woke, progressive era... it's established psychology with nearly 100 years of peer-reviewed research and consensus.
10
@Charles I agree with this. There are hormonal differences. Have you read stories of trans people who found their emotions changed when they took hormones?
A male transitioning to female found herself crying in situations where she wouldn't have when she was not taking estrogen. A trans man found himself getting into arguments after taking testosterone. Hormones affect our behavior. Both socialization and nature are at play.
10
Interesting article. I'm a married gay man. I do ALL the housework. It works for us as my husband isn't much good at it (he can't cook etc.). I was in Croatia a few years ago and my phone rang. It was my husband with a question about how the dishwasher works. It works for us as I'm a bit of a control freak and prefer to do the house stuff myself.
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@Patrick Doyle Me too! Although my partner does the laundry , I fold it , Kondo style of course!
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@Patrick Doyle My husband and I are together 30 years and we divide household duties by enjoyment, I love to cook and do dishes, he loves to do the laundry, paying the bills and checking the mail. He was out of town once for 10 days, I had to call to get our mail box number to check the mail...
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@Patrick Doyle I'm married to a control freak as well. When my husband reloads the dishwasher you realize you may as well let him load it in the first place. Another weird thing, I have a little OCD when I clean. I'm comfortable with mess until I start cleaning, then I pull out the toothbrush and it could take me 9 hours to clean the bathroom while he's already done the rest of the house. I pull my weight in other ways. It works for us.
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An article I saved from many years ago surveyed a group of straight couples who had been together for over 25 years and found that those people who least adhered to traditional gender roles were generally more satisfied in their marriages. Rigid sex roles are restricting and put people in boxes.
I’ve been in a same sex marriage for 8 years and while obviously not every single gay marriage is smoother than every single straight marriage, making our own choices about what roles we play based on what we enjoy and/or are good at works wonders!
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Same-sex couples have chosen each other largely on the basis of sexual compatibility, which is a big predictor of marital satisfaction. Heterosexual women in particular are often guilty of entering into marriages where their sexual needs aren’t being met, if they even know what those needs are.
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@Amanda
I beg to differ on the issue of sexual compatibility. I have found that sexual compatibility often stems from attraction and emotional connection, which then yields compatibility.
But in my own experience and from counseling with hundreds of straight and gay people, that compatibility lasts at most 5 years after which the same issue of differing levels of sexual interest kicks in. So one person feels unsatisfied and unloved, while the other feels pressured... and also unloved.
I've seen this dynamic consistently across relationships of all kinds, and their success and satisfaction in the relationship usually rests on how they deal with it. Learning new ways to be intimate, expanding their repertoire, or opening up their relationship are potentially positive approaches.
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Really? Care to cite recent, credible research to support your assertions?
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I bet that a study of *second* marriages among heterosexual couples would reveal far less stress for women.
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@David H No, not really. At least when it comes to stress during the second marriage. The divorce rate on second marriages is higher than for first marriages. However, it could be that the stress after the second divorce is less than the stress after the first divorce. Put another way, the stress is greater after that first divorce than it is or well be after the second divorce. Practice makes perfect, one has been down that path before, etc.
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@David H Nope. The more you've been divorced, the more likely you are to be divorced again in the future.
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An intriguing article, and anything that reminds us to further evaluate equity of our relationships is net positive.
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This Fascinating essay on a subject so close to so many lives clarifies many issues that plague relationships in the age old "battle of the sexes". What it did not address fully is the the transactional nature of dependency that can be a powerful component of couple relationships.
Regardless of gender, wealth/income parity in couples is rare, one side often trading a degree of autonomy for financial support. This lopsided power dynamic would seem to have as much, or more, influence on relational harmony as task sharing.
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How about when men do the majority of dishwashing in a male-female couple? Would that category of couples show less or more marital strife than when the woman does the majority of the dishwashing or when dishwashing is shared equally? The results might be interesting, or not. In any case, it is hard to come to conclusions about dynamics within couples when data from one of the possible permutations is not even considered.
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@History Prof
That's because it's only a theoretical possibility.
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@amy Nope. I do all the dishwashing, cleaning, yardwork, etc. while my wife does shopping, cooking, etc. It works pretty well as we do the things we are each better at (and for almost 50 years now too).
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@amy If so, the article should give the data showing that in no couples surveyed did the men do the majority of the dishwashing. Wouldn't that say a lot about gender norms, if true? But we will not know because the article fails to give us the data.
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Interesting that there is zero mention of how physical traits, and the changes we all go through, affect happiness in marriages. If one partner prioritizes exercise and eating a rather healthy diet, while the other cares not one bit about the same, tension and stress occurs, and attraction, and thus happiness, decrease. Second, how important is it to give your spouse space? These seem to me to be just as important as who does the dishes. Would love to understand how non traditional couples manage these as well.
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This is an article housework and childcare and hetero v gay and lesbian couples’ satisfaction, not about all the variables that impact satisfaction. There are volumes elsewhere about virtually anything you could think of that impacts marital satisfaction. If you’re interested, there are many excellent PhD programs in Family Science.
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Big surprise here! NOT! I was in a traditional marriage for 36 years and took on the expected role of a wife and mother (on top of having a career in Science)! That is the role that I was taught by my parents by example and I didn't realize why I was so unhappy since I was doing what society dictated. It's only since I've been separated and living by myself for almost 5 years that I've been so much happier and I know I couldn't go back to that situation again! I would rather be in a partnership, but I'm not sure there are any men of my age group (I'm 62) who would be able to adjust to the new age of marriage, so it's better to be on my own, I've concluded. I'm happy for my granddaughters that maybe they will have higher expectations of a good partner than I did!!
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@Englishgal I'm your age and found a man who is a real partner. It's been 25 years now. We raised two children. He stayed home for the first 8 years with them while I worked a high stress corporate job. He wanted to go back to work so I dropped to a less responsible role with less travel and spent the next childrearing years as primary caregiver. If I had to guess, I think he carries more of the chore load today than I, although I always strive to make sure I am doing my part. It is a second marriage for both of us (the children are from our relationship). I never could have believed it was possible, but we are living proof that it is. Certainly we weren't the norm in our age group--but we see some younger couples heading in this direction and we are sure they will be happier than those choosing hard line gender roles. Men and women need to be given opportunities and support to step outside the lines. Everyone needs to be very thoughtful about the qualities they look for in partners and be sure these qualities actually meet their needs. Stay far away from 'traditional' men and women if you have the slightest bit of dissatisfaction with gender norms. But be open. My husband would not have been many women's choice; I would not have been almost any else's choice. Neither of us had an education when we met. Now both of us have almost completed Ph.Ds.. We support each other always.
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@Englishgal Don't give up! I'm your age and have been married for 5 years to a wonderful man whom I met through Match.com. He would do the dishes if I would let him, but as he is terrible at it, we have agreed on different chores for him to take responsibility for.
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@Englishgal
I've heard and read this from so many older widows or divorced women -- that they would never go back to (heterosexual) marriage. It so was not worth it.
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Asking people how they "feel" about their "marriage" is a dubious method for establishing accuracy or truth. Too subjective.
I suspect the "happier" gays are mostly relieved they have finally achieved some legal rights--- which every single person also deserves.
The heterosexuals have had their heads filled with so many "romantic" notions and fantasies that it's inevitable disappointment reigns.
Those who love the institution of marriage the most are caterers, flower shops, realtors and divorce lawyers.
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@David Henry Certain industries just happen to get lucky (of course, they also promote the situation!). The marriage-industrial complex benefits wildly from the promotion of the bogus concepts of 'perfect,' 'magical,' and 'beautiful,' which are programmed into many of our young females beginning at birth (and extending for as long as the sales hold up -- for decades, the 'beauty'/'youth' industry hopes!).
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@David Henry You sound like someone whose had some marital disappointments.
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Gay couples have not been married as long. The study should correct for that, then see if there is still a difference.
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However, gay people have been around as long and have been in long term relationships for as long as straight couples. The legal definition of marriage is important for our rights as citizens, but has nothing to do with how happy we are in relationships.
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Oh, indeed we have been. Just not in a legal sense. Which was not our fault. But now that injustice has been rectified.
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Acustus - Same-sex MARRIED couples may be a newer phenomenon but, as a lawyer who has worked with both same-sex and opposite-sex couples, many of the same-sex couples I’ve met have been together (pre-marriage equality) for decades (in my own case, over 35 years but only married since 2005). My first clients (gay male) met in the Army and were together for nearly 60 years until one died.
Same-sex couples stick together even in the face of prejudice, legal discrimination and frequent disapproval from families. Could opposite-sex couples sustain their relationships in similar circumstances? Could you?
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Coontz is a wonderful scholar and writer. Her Marriage, a history is a revolutionary look at an institution that has dominated human society for millenniums and is so entrenched we don’t examine it, as if it’s a natural phenomenon, not a human-created arrangement.
I say this because I want to ask, respectfully, that bisexuals not be left out of the conversation. In this analysis, we hear of gay, lesbian and heterosexual people and marriages. But bisexual people exist, there are actually quite a lot of us, and many, if not most of us, are involved in monogamous relationships. Bisexuality does not equal polyamory. A bisexual person is still bisexual, whatever the gender of their partner in a monogamous relationship. There can be one or two bisexual people in any monogamous relationship.
Please, going forward, try to include bisexuals in the discussion. Perhaps just using the terms same-sex and different-sex instead of gay and heterosexual is a place to start.
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@Ann Herendeen As a lesbian, what is the difference between a bisexual who is in a same sex marriage and a bisexual who is married to the opposite sex? I honestly don't understand what the difference would be as discussed in this article.
The article simply explains that a survey found that same sex married couples said they are happier than people who are married to people of the opposite sex. And women who are married to men are the uphappiest of all. I've read this several times in other studies in the last 25 years.
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@Ann Herendeen I was so happy to see this comment so I didn't need to make it myself! The way that I view my relationship with my partner is filtered through my bisexuality. I didn't magically become straight when I began a monogamous relationship with a male partner, and I don't see my relationship as being a "straight" one. My queerness informs the frankness of our conversations about sexuality and household tasks, especially given that as an adolescent, my hazy vision of the future involved me in a relationship with another woman, rather than a man or someone of another gender.
Obviously studies have limits, and I understand the utility of referring only to two man, two woman, or one man and one woman combinations without slicing and dicing the sample further based on each person's sexuality. But I would love to see research focused on bisexual people in different-gender and same-gender relationships, and I would love to see coverage referencing that this area requires further study.
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@Sasha Love
This article discusses possible reasons why same-sex marriages appear to be happier than straight ones—and one of the aspects discussed is the sexual aspect of the relationship and how that's often negotiated differently. As the author notes, for example, gay marriages often permit sex outside of the marriage, dictated by an agreement about who/when/where/how. But that's when both partners are the same sex.
A difference might be how sexual needs are met in a pair with one or both partners being bisexual. In a same-sex marriage, one assumes that both partners have their basic sexual needs met (I'm oversimplifying here). In a pair with even one bisexual, the bisexual person's attractions to (and need for sexual interaction with) people of the sex who are not their partner may surface. As a gay man in a 20-year relationship (not married) I would be interested to know if such bisexual people navigate this aspect of their relationships in the same way that many gay men do (negotiating agreements about sexual permissions) and, if so, whether that differs depending on whether the bisexual partner is male or female.
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Reading this article, you'd think the only thing that matters in a relationship is the distribution of chores. I hope, near this day of love, that your relationship is a bit more dynamic than that. Given that physical intimacy (not sex, per se) is huge reducer of stress/increaser of satisfaction, the fact that it's not mentioned here at all is a bit telling of how accurate this all is.
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@DJG
The article is specifically about gender roles & gendered work in relationships, not every possible factor that contributes to the quality of a relationship.
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@DJG In our relationships we live day to day amid the myriad things that must be done. Call them chores, but who does what has a very definite influence on how spouses feel about one another because it's about power. When the majority of the work is left to one half if it is to be done at all, it engenders little resentments that accumulate. Talking about that does not always result in a change. Speaking from experience in a same sex marriage.
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@DJG I can tell you that every woman I know feels more affectionate toward her husband when she isn't doing hours of extra work each week compared to him, when she isn't exhausted from keeping track of almost everything having to do with the kids while he needn't bother, and when nearly all of that work is invisible to the culture at large. These things are not unrelated.
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It all comes down to money. Housework and child care have no monetary value in our society. My observational assessment of married relationships is that the spouse with the higher income does less of the housework and child care.
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I have had the totally opposite observation. In the relationships I know and have observed, even when the women are the higher earners, they do more
of the housework, or they outsource it to housekeepers, nannies, and/or their own parents.
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Your observation that when women earn more than their husbands they do MORE housework has been supported by research.
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@clementine
You are right, and the women that outsource still have the emotional labor of having to think about it and plan for it.
So, at the end of the day, it's still "women's work".
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