I'd like to see a graph showing percentages of wives that not only change the car oil for the family fleet, but figure out what else is wrong with it and figure how everyone's going to work and school the next day unless it's fixed, are the home plumber, electrician and IT, who take out the trash cans, do yard work, and hunt for special tools and screws at Home Depot. I'd like to see a graph of how many wives abandon altogether house chores once they work outside the home. Yes, marriage is a partnership, but, at the same time, couples (and kids) must come to an agreement about settling for a less than perfect home life for everyone, or my fear is that when everyone self-actualizes and gets what they want, something much more valuable will be lost.
For about six months of my life I got to be the breadwinner while my husband was a stay at home dad. He's ex-military and far tidier than I am, is an excellent cook, and basically makes June Cleaver look like a slouch. Women, let me tell you... There is a reason men want a stay at home wife. It is awesome. I've never been more efficient and successful at work, I didn't waste brain time worrying about school pickup and grocery shopping, I could work late as-needed to impress the boss. And--guilty confession--sometimes I claimed to need to work late when really I just needed a little alone time. The patriarchy knows they've got a great thing going. No wonder they fight so hard to keep it.
6
Women and men often have different standards of household tidiness; are we supposed to think that the more obsessive of the two is automatically the correct standard?
It reminds me a bit of that foolishness about blaming men for leaving the toilet seat up.
@Frank Yeah, my ex (emphasis on "ex") said it was fair that I did all (as in 95%) of the cooking and cleaning because he "didn't care" about it. He was only marginally better on childcare once the kids came. No thanks.
1
I commend mothers raising their sons to be "self-sufficient". However, the proof is in the pudding - how will they behave once in a relationship...or married? It seems such behavior holds up during college and those years of living alone but I wonder what percentage of young men revert to traditional roles, especially if they seek or (by luck? [for them!]) happen to find a partner who is willing to shoulder most of the load for them? Just how hard do they insist on sharing those chores? Or do they happily hand them over? Yes, women will have to continue to hold their ground.
2
Watching female friends raise their kids has been an education. Most of the mothers I know - their husbands were raised watching 'Father Knows Best', too, so were incapable of lifting a duster - waited on their kids hand, foot and finger. I was amazed - our own mothers didn't do that when we were kids. What was this Supermom stuff about ?
Only when they grew up and started sharing accommodation at college did these kids have to learn how to clean etc. etc.
A recipe for divorced kids.
1
What chart are you looking at? You seem to miss the part where the youngest sample group rated higher in almost every category, and while it may be by a few per cent, there is a pattern.
You are wrong to say that men don’t vacuum. In my experience and the experience of many women I know vacuuming is one of those things that men will actually do. Why? We have all concluded that vacuuming is okay because it involves the use of a tool with a motor. Tasks like cleaning the toilets or (horror of horrors) dusting are where male housecleaning falls apart. Until we invent a duster or a toilet bowl cleaner with a motor attached those jobs will remain the ones where men will claim that our standards are too high and therefore they shouldn’t have to do them.
4
The best thing about being single is the only person I have to clean up after is myself. I do not want children. I certainly don't want to have to clean up after a man (basically a large child). If I cannot do something myself (and yes I can do pretty much anything a man can do) or I do not WANT to do something myself, I can pay someone to do it. That way there is no resentment. Work is done and the work gets paid for - and that includes cleaning.
The best arrangement if in a relationship is to have your own home and for your romantic/sexual partner to have their own home. If your partner's home is a nasty mess, well then you can choose to never stay there (or better yet, find a partner who isn't a gross pig).
Gay men seem to be able to do everything that women do, so the only reason men don't do things is because they don't want to do them and women let them get away with it. NOPE.
10
Here's one problem with some forms of household chores. One partner sees certain chores as unentertaining obligations while the other sees them as unentertaining wastes of time. It is hard to get one partner to compromise with the other when neither thinks a task is fun and only one thinks the chores necessary. For example, who decides ironing is necessary? Is that an issue of compromise? Shirts are ironed or they are not. Or they are taken to the cleaners and picked up, or not. It is a binary event. (Never mind delivery/pick-up services - I am talking about typical folks, not the unwoken privileged.
4
As a male who vacuums occasionally at my house I've asked most of my friends and family about it. So this may only be anecdotal evidence but the males all responded with some variation of " I don't care if the floor is dirty ill vacuum if there's big stuff on the floor but that's about it. So really I think for the majority of males their tolerance to dirtiness is much higher, when was the last time your wife , girlfriends, or any female you know go to bed with grease/oil on their hands or eat with dirty hands, don't shower for days, etc. The frequency of maintenance is different normally when i vacuum its not because i think its very dirty but for others who will be in the area.
7
Maybe young men just don't care as much about cleanliness as some of their wives do. Look at any dorm room, dudes are just dirty. That might be the bigger breakdown in chores than gender inequality.
4
And could their dorm rooms be dirtier simply because if someone else (i.e. mom, when living at home) isn't cleaning up after them or yelling at them to, they're not about to do it themselves?
1
My wife told me when we got married her dream was to stay at home and raise our kids. All she wanted was to be the mom she had growing up to her own children. And so she was. I worked and she stayed home and together we made a beautiful family. She takes issue with society elevating the working mom over that of the stay at home mom. Success is what you make of your dreams, not someone else's prescribed role.
4
Here’s the problem with your comment. You say you worked and she stayed home with the kids. But she worked too; she just didn’t get paid for it. I’ve done both types of work and I can tell you that working outside the home is a lot easier (at least if you have a professional job) than working at home taking care of a house and raising children, particularly when you have a husband who doesn’t share that work when he is at home.
12
Does this article account for dirtiness tolerance thresholds (DTL)? (Yes, DTL is a newly contrived pseudo-scientific term meant to annoy and apprise that a whole lot of BS is coming your way).
Men are willing to live like pigs. I know because I am one. No, I'm not an actual pig. I don't have split hooves. But ladies, if you are curious, sexually adventurous, and your vaxxer passport is up to date, take a weekend safari tour of the home of every third bachelor you know. I challenge that you will find there an intersexual variance in DTL that defies understanding. These burrows and their burrowed denizens are veritable biodomes - a fungal fornicopia - rarely seen anywhere except maybe an all-night rave party inside a government-run BSL4.
Of course, barring an excursion to the musk-scented grotto of your much-loved artistic bon vivant (every group of friends has at least one) there are at least a few marked features that are more or less conserved from one bachelor pad to the next. The kitchen usually looks like it was washed with disgorged pizza and Southern Comfort and the toilet paper has been gone since last March. Since then, the actual toiled itself was used instead. Don't look surprised, your not too distant forbears used corncobs and sticks, didn't you know?
So this data, I wonder, when properly normalized to account for sexual variance in DTL, might not show that men, compared to their mates, do positively just wear their poor selves out helping around the house?
5
Here is what I tell my sons:
The health and happiness of your marriage will depend on your demonstrated belief that your partner's life (or her time-same thing) matters to you as much or more than your own. Most often, this demonstration means equal participation in the not so little things, the challenging, time consuming, most often invisible day to day tasks of family life. No bouquet on Valentine's day or lavish vacation makes up for the lack of your full participation.
I tell them, if you choose to lounge, play video games, hang out with the guys, or hyper focus on your (and it really is just "your" since you are well on your way to a divorce) financial future while working more hours at a not fully earned higher wage job while she scrubs toilets, cares for sick children, and manages an unjust percentage of the invisible, unpaid labor of domestic life whether or not she also has paid work, you are choosing a slave (unpaid worker) over a partner; no way can this be construed as love or its necessary precursor respect.
And, here's where ears perk up, I tell them, "Your romantic life depends on your making better choices." And it does.
57
@m.r.f. Hey I can relate. Tell it like it is, sister! But, I think you mean their "sex life with their wife."
5
You guys failed to increase the median income with inflation and killed the middle class and the nuclear family in the process. For young people, traditionalism is a fantasy now. Don't act too shocked.
3
I make 4x my wife and experience 10x the stress at work compared to her. I’m not splitting house work equally if we are not also going to equally split the burden the financial future of our family
2
Does your logic extend to the reverse scenario of it were your wife who made 4x your salary and experienced 10x the stress?
6
@sam Willing to bet John's priorities would shift in the scenario you lay out.
1
I loved to vacuum with our old Hoover upright - its maroon colored cloth bag which you turned upside down (outside) to get rid of the bag's dusty contents - and so did my sister. And, yes I'm a male and I live alone and I still love to vacuum with my much newer Hoover. But, my sister enjoyed vacuuming until her health deteriorated as did mine, but I can still push that heavy green sucker knowing I'll have a clean carpet when I'm done. And, no, this is not a commercial for Hoover, it's just what we had, did, and I still do... a lot! I can still remember my late dad "running" the sweeper! Maybe that's why I love doing it to this day.
2
Women must stop changing their names when they marry. And STOP assigning their
Partners LAST name to their children
Just pick a new last name for all in the family
8
I took my husband’s last name. Mainly because my maiden name was German and most people struggled to pronounce it.
But my husband and I share household tasks evenly. We each cook 3 nights of the week (Friday night is ‘date night’ so no one cooks). The non-cook is responsible for cleaning & dishes after dinner. Each weekend he vacuums and I mop & dust. We trade off each week who does laundry. Even feeding our pets and cleaning up after them is divided evenly. I don’t see how my last name has affected our equality within our marriage.
8
How about this for a headline?
"Young Women Embrace Gender Equality, but They Still Don’t Clean Gutters or Check Their Car Engine Oil"
8
@Jim
How bout this headline: "Man cleans gutters once per year; checks engine oil twice per year; claims three instances are equal contribution to routine housework performed daily by female partner."
101
@C’s Daughter Yasssss to this!
7
@C’s Daughter Hahahaha :) Jim, you gotta laugh, she has you pegged: You are Hammer 'n Hammock's new Man of the Year :)
5
Gee I wonder what percentage of time women help with the following tasks at home:
-- trapping mice and other pests
-- fixing a toilet
--mowing the lawn; changing the blades on the lawn mower
--fixing a flat tire
--hanging a chandelier, changing a light fixture
--installing, patching drywall
--changing the oil in the car.
The "experts" who conduct these sociology studies know nothing about the real world.
8
@R.P. Those tasks you listed are things that need doing every once in a while. Even mowing the lawn is at most a once a week task. But doing dishes, cleaning the bathroom, laundry, cooking--these are every day, sometimes multiple times a day, types of tasks. This is where the divide in labor is pretty stark.
47
@R.P. What do you have to say for the opposite sex couple that lives in apartment that doesn't have to do most of the things you listed? My husband has never done any of these things once.
14
@R.P. I've done almost all of that except hang a chandelier. I even installed a small retaining wall, installed new brake rotors and pads (on my car), and changed out the serpentine belt in my dads car.
11
Too much misandry. Not enough behavioral science.
I spent the major portion of my marketing career exploiting the purchase behavior vulnerabilities of women. Like Iams Eukanuba for women in a Dual Income, No Kids households. She'll spend 4 times mass market prices to feed her "baby."
Better research and insights into domestic labor division comes from over two decades marketing in the home appliance industry.
Big picture, same activity performed by men is not the same behavior when performed by women.
Today we split Maslow's hierarchy in half. Bottom half is the collection and storage of energy -- survival behaviors with lower, less persistent rewards. Top half is energy-spending behaviors; counterintuitive for survival, but necessary for species propagation. Propagation activities require higher and more persistent rewards, like orgasm.
Women's breasts drain energy and require support of that upper-level type of reward. One men don't have.
He doesn't have the same biochemical motivation to feed and care. And should he perform those tasks, the absence of the rewards she would get can cause jealousy and criticism.
Once we recognize these behaviors, we can create co-work strategies that are beneficial to both. In matters of heart and hearth, it's her kitchen, but tonight it's his recipe. If she gets hypercritical, recognize she needs her "giving" bell rung, and let her give advice. Housecleaning, set a time when both perform. Reward each other.
We can work together.
1
@colonelpanic That's what it should be about and not petty things like this. I like at it like this, men create (meaning we build) and women preserve (bringing life then so the cycle may continue) by nature. There is no reason for this arguing over which gender has it hardest or any of that stuff. I visit my moms farm sometimes to cut wood, fix somethings that are broken or put a new door on because she doesn't have skill set to do so. I like doing it and she appreciates me for doing it. She does things that I normally cant do because I lack the skills to do so. Same goes for if I have a GF
This article misses the crucial point. Forget Mars - Venus. Men are Oscar; women are Felix (as generalization). A man and a woman start living together and the woman wants to dictate the standards for housekeeping. The woman wants a lot more cleaning and expects the guy to do half of it. Compare the typical single woman's living quarters to the typical single guy's living quarters. It's hard for a guy to figure why all that extra work, for which he doesn't see a real need, should be dumped on him. I also notice that columns like this one are invariably written by a woman.
49
That is learned behavior. I am not Felix . I’m an artist. I’m expected to be different bc I’m a woman. It’s boring to me to be miss housekeeper . Yawn. I have better things to do.
30
@Emacee
Maybe guys like you shouldn't get married, or, another thought: if you are, pay for a housekeeper to do all the cleaning and laundry, and get food delivered. Problem solved fairly, plus happy wife. Costs too much? Work overtime.
38
When the "extra work" is merely putting dishes in the sink and making sure trash and recycling go in the bins instead of leaving it all around the house, we have a problem. Cleaning up after oneself, man or woman, should be a basic level of cleanliness for everyone.
28
As a society we need to stop punishing women for child rearing. I am a different person now having acquired an incredible amount of patience and stamina. I can multitask, negotiate, cooperate, amend conflict and suppress my needs or wait it out like never before. Not only have I gained skills for the workplace, I feel I now have the goods, temperament and chutzpah to become a world leader. Trump’s got nothing on me regarding deal-making. Watch me bring together divergent views and keep everyone humming along on a win-win. All this is due to having and raising a couple of kids.
Women should earn MORE money not less after this. The status quo boils down to misogyny.
257
I’m with you! Look at Nancy Pelosi! Im pretty sure she learned a lot of the skills she uses wrangling the house while she was raising 5 children.
32
@Songbird Increase paid new parent leave, subsidize early childcare, implement universal public Head Start, and adjust the school schedule to be year-round and later in the day (to more closely align to the average workday). Increase the child tax credit, or rather, just decouple it from taxes entirely and turn it into a monthly cash subsidy for primary child caregivers. Making it easier for new caregiving parents (who remain overwhelmingly mothers) to both afford early childcare and maintain their career will go a long way toward improving equality across the board.
15
@Songbird I agree that a woman's career should not be punished due to having or raising children and pay should be equal for equal positions regardless of gender.
Of course life skills can improve your on the job performance. However, actual performance in your job is what should increase your salary.
I am the single woman that covered all those weeks and months of leave for Mothers in the office over the decades. I support paid leave for women and it should be available to every woman.
But whether it was a woman or a man that did two jobs while you were on leave, getting a raise after weeks or months of absence, just because you are a mother, is totally unfair.
22
the person in the household who is doing the work has to be willing to stop and let things get really nasty to force the non-sharing member to do their part. its either that or walk away.
1
My wife does 90% of the cooking, I do 90% of the dishes, seriously. She does the bills, I do the investing. I clean the house and vacuum, pushing the vacuum around is easier for me than her. I do the grocery shopping and she puts together her list. Laundry we split, I often do my own
I don't think she'd argue with my claim that I do 60-70% of the household stuff, and I don't mind at all.
3
"The survey didn't ask how people wanted to divide chores-perhaps they were content with the arrangement." Exactly. If you don't want to do a certain chore, chances are you're not going to do it. Most women prefer interior decorating to mowing the lawn or changing the oil. Most men don't care about decorating the house or if the carpets are vacuumed every week.
1
Do men on average desire the same level of household cleanliness as women? If not, they probably don't see the urgency of working as much as women do on those chores. In areas of work where they highly value the outcome men might even be pitching in more than the women would want to do.
Strange comment. I’ve known many men who are extremely fastidious.
3
Ok now i know i skipped the article after reading a quarter of it, and part of my response relates to the fact i skipped it and said i skipped it after reading a quarter of it...
Here is my point... how do we know women arent lieing a bit, not all of them, but quite a few, on the survey, because they dont want to admit that NO, one , that no one, is doing the house chores and the house is actually a mess by the standards of 30 to 40 years ago, because everyones overworked, exhausted, and miserable, and poor and the paycheck isnt going far enough so they are struggling to feed, clothe, entertain, and teach the family/children about everything and everyone is so burned out because they see no financial hope for the future of the children and
they may be having a crisis internally that they are trying not to think about, and just pretending that everything is ok, lets be honest, the standards of cleaning for hundreds of years was because one spouse was always at home not working and they had to do something so they didnt go insane
and so housework became a focus for them, since people actually being happy and having hobbies was so horrific to people in the age of tea tottlers and only doing things that have direct and necesary benefits to serve the family and community
maybe we are evolving past the need to put up appearences and are more focused on personal enlightenment, joy, and having moments of freindship gaming and talking and having relaxing moments when not working.
1
This headline caught my eye as I sat down to take a break after ... vacuuming. My wife is at work and I have the day off, so I'm getting some things done. Been married 35 years and she used to do most of the vacuuming until I bought "us" a way-too-expensive and ridiculously heavy Kirby. Huge motor, polished metal, and (I'm not kidding) an automatic transmission. I'm an engineer by education and pilot by profession. I love well-built machines, and she's happy to let me use it any time. I can't speak for the younger guys, but middle-aged men should have a 4x4 Pick-up, a Harley motorcycle, and a Kirby vacuum. :-)
1
I'm an old woman, and I don't vacuum either. I bought a Roomba.
2
I'll be very honest... I'm a women in this age range. Once I gave up dating men, my life got a lot better. I used to split costs on dates, got to know them and their lives, hobbies and interests. Supported them when they complained about work and other family drama. But I generally find that men my age want therapists they can have sex with who will clean up after them. They also aren't down to reciprocate any of that. Anything good that happens in my life like a promotion, can be considered threatening to their egos and usually results in more demands on my time at home to put me in my place? Yeah no. Why bother.
7
I hate cleaning. I get why men don't want to do it. It's boring and tedious and thankless and constant.
I grew up in one of those traditional households as a girl, where I watched my mother, who worked full-time as a teacher, come home and start cleaning the house while my father lounged around like a pasha, having put in his 7-8 hours for the day. She of course enlisted me as best she could to do chores like cleaning dishes, doing laundry, lawn care and shoveling (my dad didn't even do that), and babysitting younger siblings. I remember being angry when I was told to clean away my father and brother's dishes after dinner and was told by mother that it was "my job." I somehow avoided whatever socialization causes women to believe that constant tidying is their fate.
Well, I am an adult and I have a job now that I get paid for. I still hate cleaning. I live alone and let the laundry and dishes sit around for as long as I feel like. Sometimes I hire a cleaner. It's great. I can see why men don't want to give this up.
11
@ml constant tidying is a waste of time i agree, its a result of the tradition of women often being home more often then not so they had time to do stuff and society hated people being happy so instead of writing or reading alot many people ended up finding practical chores and work to do so they could be seen as productive at home and in society, and there fore a asset to society, people feared society back then and sought to gain power in it through appearences of productiviity...
that said... your fathers body may have been very sore depending on his job or his health, men tend to wear down by the time they reach thier thirties and the forties can be rough if they have heavy body weight or have done alot of lifting... i never believed it was possible in my twenties and teens, but now in my 30s i can see it coming, my knees and backs are gona hurt me in another 10 years or so... so its sort of like staring at a really slow truck coming at you and you are stuck in its way no matter what you do...
oh well
hopefully you find happiness
1
Yikes - not a good look for all men. Perhaps this is why we didn't vote for the most qualified Presidential candidate over the least qualified in 2016. Societal norms are hard to break.
3
I wish I could remember who said this:
"Marriage and children have been criminally oversold to young women."
If I had a daughter I would never urge her to marry or have children.
It simply is not worth it.
11
Are you saying that every man does not do his own laundry, run the roomba, cook, and empty and fill the dishwasher? And that is just saturday.
I know this is written for the average and in generality. I want to make a point though, gender equality and making men do more household chores have to be two different and distinct things. If women want to be equal to men, it means they should do less chores around the house. However, it does not mean men should do more. When women want to pursue careers men should learn to put up with messier house and dirty carpet. Also when women would like men to do chores they should be more accepting the lesser quality of chores :-)
4
Women do laundry when they want a specific blouse done. Men do laundry when they run out of underwear. What women want is men to do housework how and when they say it should be done. Women have different stnadards of when to vacuum etc.
2
And who mows the lawn?
1
@CouchSpecimen I do (female) I love mowing the lawn and yard work in general. I hate vacuuming.
6
I'm an old bachelor, so at my house, if I don't do it no one will. Men don't vacuum because they don't see the need for obsessive compulsive dust control. Women aren't comfortable with a little dust. That's their problem. Get over it! If you want to focus on your career, your house is not going to be as spotless as your stay at home mom or grandmas house in 1960 and he's not on the same wavelength to try & make it so. You want the guys to adjust, but you have to adjust too! Move on from your obsessions & have peace & happiness.
1
@Doug an older woman told me she mops the floor every night after cleaning up the dinner dishes. What? How much dirt can he and her husband create in one day?
1
According to:
https://www.medicaldaily.com/are-women-cleaner-men-scientists-look-germs-offices-restrooms-and-hands-412754
And so when someone leaves a comment in this thread that provides a clue, like Amanda from Nashville:
"They [men] don’t seem to notice or mind messes that aggravate me."
It could indicate that women want their houses to be cleaner than men do.
So just do the extra work, and stop trying to make your husband care about something he doesn't care about!
Which blends into my next point, childcare:
Men are stronger physically, and women are smarter socially, like planning out the households activities.
Women are hyper-social (that's good)
They love their kids and look out for them (that's good)
They seem to be better at the executive planning that a household thrives upon
(that's good too)
Of course they're more involved in the household machinery. They're better at it! Should we give tasks to the people who are the worst at them?
Besides, by their own statements, women are the ones picking up the tasks "that need to be done!"
If you don't want to, don't do those tasks. You're a strong, independant powerful woman! No one can force you!
2 projects: housework and childcare.
Good luck fighting against the fact that women want these jobs to be done to a higher quality than men.
Those people responding with humor to this piece really don’t get it. It’s not funny when you live it.
7
This article is fantasy nonsense. I've always done all the vacuuming.
And I cook breakfast every day too...
Knock off the 1950's stereotypes and get real facts.
2
This article's subhead reads: "New studies show traditional views persist about who does what at home, and it’s holding women back."
Um...did the author forget to show in what manner "...it's holding women back." actually occurs?
It often boils down to values. The guy is perfectly happy with the messy flat. They gal is not. She wants it cleaned and cleans. He doesn't care, and doesn't clean. She complains he's not helping. He thinks she's doing unnecessary work.
1
I vacumm... But I don't get it why women get offended when asked to split a check on a date. You want to be treated like a "lady".... I would rather treat you like an equal.
This is no conspiracy. Men, as a group, are lazy about certain things that do not seem to give a token or nod about dominance. Men will not "cook" in the kitchen but they will struggle to be the top "chef". The first rule of cleaning is the cleaning gets done by the person who blinks first. Many men have a higher tolerance for a chaotic home.
2
If women really think the work is inequitable why don't they just work out what is fair with their husbands?
1
What is ironing?
So many do not care about details that seem important to their spouse. In this case the more concerned member of the household does more housework because encouraging and supervising the other member is too much of a hassle.
It is one thing to ask your mate to vacuum every Tuesday, it is another thing for your mate to notice that the house needs vacuuming on a Thursday.
Women usually embrace gender quality, too, but they still don't see any problem in letting the man do all of the earning. Women are still raised to think of a career as a choice. Financial dependence on a husband is still considered an acceptable option for women, particularly upper middle class women. Men are held to a higher standard, where not only employment, but earning potential, is a criterion for women considering marriage. Until financial dependence on a man is considered unacceptable for women (and financial dependence means the couple's lifestyle is not 50% supported by her income....her passion job as an equine therapy or "writer" does not qualify as equal support if he is working 65 hour weeks in a cubicle and supporting 85% of the budget), women will not progress. It's tough to give up the comforts of financial dependence and flexible days, but men have always done it, and women can too.
2
Just wanted to chime in and beg to differ with paragraph 4. The U.S. does indeed have public pre K and family leave. I know because at our childrens private day care offered us a choice between private or public enrollment. Now it may vary by state... But it is here in GA... And this was more than 10 years ago. Also I know my brothers enjoyed paid time off for maternity when their children were born, again more than 10 years ago. Maybe we should double check that these American family benefits haven't quietly disappeared ... Like when the soupmakers took the bones out of soupmaking. This took nutrition and needed health creating ingredients right off our spoons. Now we get to pay an extra $5 per can if we would like to purchase the bone broth suddenly being marketed. I would like to lobby Campbell's to put it back and would like to see men making homemade soups and breads at home to your point. Great article. Important changes in our world. Cheers to equality.
I hit the husband lottery jackpot! I have a true partner. In 25 years of marriage and a co-mingled family of 5 kids (we’re both custodial parents) I can’t count the number of times I got home from work and he was in the kitchen cooking supper. I started laundry. We ate dinner and he cleaned the kitchen while I gave the little ones baths and helped with homework. I finished laundry, he ran the vacuum. Now that we are empty nesters, we still share household tasks. He does all the grocery shopping, we split the cooking, I take care of the laundry. He has always respected me as an equal partner in our marriage. Now here’s the kicker, he was raised in a very traditional family. His dad worked full time, his mom was a stay at home (excellent!) homemaker who did everything for her 3 sons. It never occurred to him, not once, to expect me to take on the burden of housework along with my full time job. I’m still not sure how or why, but he really “got it”. I’m thankful everyday for this husband of mine.
6
Interesting. I'm 64. My husband is 71. This is the second marriage for us both. He does the housecleaning, laundry, dishwashing, and grocery shopping. I cook, manage our finances, and make plans for our travel, etc. We have a lawn service so neither of us does yardwork, and we take our cars to the dealership for servicing. I honestly think he puts in more hours on house-and-household related tasks than I do, but he says he thinks it's about even. In any case, this system has worked for us for nearly 20 years.
4
I've been cooking and cleaning since junior high school. Mom worked nights and I was the second oldest of 3 kids and we all did what we could. Most of my male friends have at some point lived alone and also know how to do all this stuff so I'm having a bit of a hard time believing this is as simple as it's being presented in this article. The only folks I know who still adhere to this worldview are religious and will never change.
3
31 year old childless prairie gal here - married to a great guy almost 4 yrs, together 7 yrs total. I’m a respected, ambitious professional & main breadwinner, considerably out-earning my husband. (This, by the way, is the gender norm in my friend & peer group - whether childless or parents.) But it’s only after 6 years of living together that our marriage is approaching an almost equitable share of responsibilities.
My husband grew up in a rural household where both parents worked but his mom did everything at home so he didn’t understand the household burden. In contrast, both my city slicker parents worked but my white-collar mom was the main breadwinner/financial planner while my blue-collar dad did all the household chores, cooking, maintenance to make up for his lack of financial contribution. I definitely believe parents model life for their kids.
In the last 2 years, my husband has come a long way in sharing the household burden. But honestly, I don’t think we would’ve gotten to where we are without Dr Gary Chapman’s 5 love languages book (which helped us identify our different childhood experiences/expectations and bridge them) and counselling. Both counselling and the book helped him better see and understand the weight of the economic, emotional and physical burden I had to carry for years as the primary earner, maid, cook, caregiver, and event planner/secretary... and how it impacted me as his lover and partner.
I highly recommend counselling & the book to all.
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@EJ that sounds really great... ive been kind of curious about alot of these comments when i hear that the women are often teachers and white collar jobs, but the men are working lower pay or blue collar jobs basically... was he doing a warehouse type job like the amazon shipping room or some sort of job that can be a burdon on the back and knees? or is it more of a clerk job or something like engineering or electrician?
im just curious because ive been wondering how many men who have the tradition of going home and crashing into a chair do so because the bodies are sore and tired or if its just tradition to go home and rest to read something or play a game with the kids?
because i like to understand why things are the way they are and im glad for your family doing well, i just try to understand each individual comment as a individual specific answer and not one that is missing core context of why the answer's are... but i have a feeling you both love your jobs so im sure his isn't too exhausting, ive just heard alot of horror stories for amazon employees and Rustbelt workers back in the day
if this is intruding too far or too weird i apolagize
This idea that men are somehow the lazy gender, while women are carrying all of the heavy load is simply not supported by the data if you look at ALL of it. Do women do more the work in the home and with child care? Yes. Clearly. But the data (according to the Pew survey of 2016) also show that in straight couples, men are the primary or sole earner more than 70% of the time. That number is even higher among upper middle class couples. Other research has shown that educated women choose male partners based on their earning potential as a primary consideration, while men do not judge potential female partners according to the same concern. Men are raised to be earners, and are often judged by women and other men according to their ability to earn. When my wife became pregnant, she was asked repeatedly at her work if she would continue in her role or become a stay-at-home parent once the baby came. Not one person asked me that question. Not one. Why? Because men are expected to be earners, while women are seen as having a choice. We all know plenty of upper middle class self-professed feminists who have no problem allowing their husbands to earn most or all of the money while they suddenly leave the crush of the workforce and decide greater meaning is found in parenting. Many men would love that option.
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On the other hand: I am fortunate to have been raised by a single mother who needed me to take charge of the home once I was the oldest child at home. I have been the family cook, shopper and laundryman since age 14. While I seldom vacuum, neither does my wife. On the other hand, I do many household chores my wife does not do. That includes cooking, grocery shopping and laundry, , along with all the other chores formerly reserved to men, such as yard work, bill paying, budgeting and getting our motor vehicles serviced. What I have seen is many women ready to fight for equality in many arenas, while still expecting a man to do all the tasks formerly considered, "man's work." Even though I am 72 years of age and living with two women younger and physically stronger than me, I do not hear any volunteers offering to mow the lawn, take the car in for servicing, or any of the other such (men's) tasks. I have no issue with a fair distribution of family chores. In fact, I would like to see all chores thrown into the pot and shared equally for a change. Asking my wife to take 'her car" in for servicing is like asking many men to do laundry or cook. The stereotyping goes both ways. While most women are willing to fight for their equality, many women still want to hang on to the old stereotypes of men's work. After several marriages and 30 years with my (final) wife, I have come to accept some fights are not worth fighting.
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I remember this same issue with similar results being discussed 40 years ago as a freshman in college sociology. Fast forward 400 years, little will change unless you are willing to destroy maternalism and motherhood.
As a single guy, in my 50s, I have to do all of these things if I want to have a normal existence.
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@Scott Ehlers As a single gal in her 50's I have to do all these things for myself. I was married and resented waiting on my lazy husband. I did it all then. Yes. Mowing the lawn, cleaning the gutters, car maintenance, food shopping, cooking, laundry and the dreaded vacuuming. Now that I'm no longer have that lazy slug laying on the couch, I usually enjoy completing the chores. I still hate vacuuming and found having hardwood floors fixed that problem as well.
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@Jillian While i can give no suggestions for the house work... i think some couples would be happier if they had more shared interests or passions or even just hobbies like a shared interest in studying architecture or just having family gaming nights... i think people get so caught up in appearences they do not spend enough time having just honest fun together, whenever both are in the house thats a chance to hang out together... oh well... maybe just a movie night too... but hobbies and passions would probably make both happier in the long run, people that give up the things they enjoy for a marriage will be passively or even unconsciously resentful and self destructive because they had to give up the silly things they enjoy for the partners dislike of those silly things or mocking of it... im not sure that was the cause of most relationship issues officially, but sometimes i think its the subconscious seed that leads to the difference between a failed relationship and a succesful one, theres couples that have disasterous issues and they still stick together because i think they support each others passions and desires rather then dismiss or try to talk the other side into dismissing them through light mocking or other things
I was a Pell Grant, supplemented by work study, supplemented by off-campus jobs student as an undergrad at an elite college, and wondered what it would have been like to focus solely on academics. Turning the clock forward (having had that longed-for focused opportunity when attaining an advanced degree), my work life in my 50s is consistently chopped into blocks of managing children, household, schedule, kid logistics, etc.
My husband focuses on his work, and excels. I do a reasonable job at work - in truth, it's a position with a fair deal of responsibility - but wonder what it'd be like to just focus on work - no calls from the school nurse, the veterinarian, household contractors, no mid-day kid transport, permission slips to sign, homework to assist with. Or to have a whole weekend sans cleaning, food shopping and meal prep, laundry.
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This just underlines what Sheryl Sandberg said in Lean In: if your career is important to you, choosing the right person to marry can make or break your success, not just at work, but in life. There are guys out there who aren't stuck in the 1950s and will share equally in housework and childcare and support your aspirations and make sure you have the space to succeed - I'm married to one. The worst situation to be in is to be married to a man who expects you to bring in paid income but also expects you to do all the emotional and physical labor of household maintenance and parenting like you're June Cleaver. A man who expects you to pay for half the household expenses (possibly down to the penny, no kidding) but resents you spending time at work trying to move up or succeed (especially if you may end up making more money than he does). Having observed several friends in that situation, I think it's better to be a single mother by choice than live like that. Choose wisely, my friends.
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I guess young men don't care that much about being respected by their spouses, or having a willing sexual partner and robust sex life without resentment. Being the partner ready to do 55% of all household tasks, and who actually does them, is the best route to either of those two once desirable outcomes. And by the way, the same goes the other way, too.
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My husband really likes to vacuum. He is into doing laundry, though he wants me to put it away. He likes to straighten up daily, while I prefer to do the deep cleaning when the mood hits.
He likes putting dishes into the dishwasher. He is really happy when all the appliances are humming along. He cannot cook very well, but he likes to bake fairly simple things from a box, such as banana bread. He finds it relaxing.
I guess I am really lucky because we spit up the housework pretty evenly. If anything, I can be the slacker. We share chores like shopping.
I find it ridiculous that some couples are still stuck in old gender norms.
We have been together since 1982. We do not try to change one another and we try not to criticize one another. We are a team. We are not in competition with one another or with anyone else. We work together.
Welcome to the 21st century!
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If men did way more housework than women and spent less time at work, I can't help but wonder if we'd be complaining about how women are stuck in the office all day while men get the free time to hang out at home with the kids.
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@Joe hrrm... that is moderately funny... i guess the obvious point is we never complain men are stuck in the office all day and dont have time to be at home except for a limited amount of time to spend with family, tv, and the bed before going back to work after a quick coffee breakfast
perhaps the real issue is... no one has time to do the chores if they would spend more time doing things with their families when not at work, and that the concept of chores are denying people time with their spouses and loved ones...
" ... but They Still Don’t Vacuum"
< smiling > We call that 'compromise'.
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Get a Roomba. Problem solved.
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Roombas do childcare now!? We are truly living in a Golden Age.
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Where are the "domestic dutues" related to heavy maintenance? Where is the HVAC repair, the water heater replacment, the dishwasher and washer dryer replacement, the lawn moving, snow removal...etc Domestic duties include FAR more than cleaning and cooking. A better analysis would be to describe ALL the work it takes to keep a household running and then see how the divisions breakdown. I wouldn't be surprised if that analysis would demonstrate that men do MORE work than women
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@Marquez I write this as a former stay at home dad and you're spot on. These surveys are skewed toward the household chores that women tend to do or choose to do when couples decide who takes care of what. We're missing time spent mowing the yard, doing the plumbing repair, taking out the garbage, killing the rodent that appears (and the spiders and insects), home repair or remodels. So you're right, the list needs to be more extensive.
And it's misleading to include single income households since those are where women typically stay home, so they naturally do more household-related items.
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Actually if you look at research that includes those kinds of household tasks, women still carry the bulk of the work. Most of those tasks are intermittent compared to continuous upkeep. Even though they are labor intensive jobs, they don’t tilt the scales that much compared to the day-to-day stuff overtime and also don’t relieve the mental load. They’re also not really the crux of the issue at hand. I recommend looking into The Second Shift by Arlie Russell Hochschild if you want to see how this stuff plays out and why it’s problematic for the rest of us.
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If your man won't clean put your foot down and tell him to do so or find a new one. It means his parents picked up after him and he's lazy or he's intentionally putting it off on you because he thinks his time is more important.
I'm a man and I've been doing my own laundry and ironing my clothes since I was tall enough to see over the machine. And, I've been cleaning up after myself ever since. It's really not that hard. Women, stop complaining and tell your man to pick up after himself.
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As a single guy I do all the housework. i think what you'll find is not that guys aren't willing to do housework they don't think it's necessary at the level that women do. The best solution is to hire a maid to do it.
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Society looks favorable to women who do traditionally masculine things. On the other hand, society is still unkind to men who do anything remotely feminine.
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Whoa, whoa, whoa.
I've tried to help with the house cleaning, but I'm, "always doing it wrong". I remember my partner grabbing the vacuum cleaner away from me and demonstrating, "how it's done". She doesn't like the way I put dishes in the dishwasher, I make the bed wrong. You name it...
I've gotten so tired of her standing over me telling me what to do, that I've refused to do most of the housework. I'm willing to do my part but without the nagging.
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i disagree....every woman i've been with thought her cleaning "prowess" was so much greater than mine....and then you got to manage this "the woman is always right" schtick. So yea, the only time i get to vacuum is when i single
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@Geee Yup!
I clean the bathroom when she's not looking (seriously!).
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Vacuuming is good exercise, and doesn't take long. I've been doing it for years. I have no stigma about vacuuming as a man.
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Everyone does not need to vacuum.
I have always disliked vacuuming. I hate the noise. Growing up, I did most of the vacuuming, with my sister; we all groused that my brother would not pitch in with the housework. To be fair, he worked very, very hard: for 7 years in my Dad's business, fixing cars: dirty, demanding, difficult & complicated work. Then, getting his M. Sc. (my sister got a Ph.D.) & working himself literally to a premature death in IT, aerospace & security projects. He was brilliant, a polyglot, historian, opera lover, art lover, book enthusiast & a great cook. Not so good with the housekeeping.
My husband grew up in a very traditional enclave, yet was always & remains involved in all the housework. In that sense, he has been the perfect husband. He has taught our sons not to shirk helping.
But you know what? If he would take me dancing (we both love dance), I would not mind if he did zero housework.
We all have our preferences, our strengths & our personal wish list. Staying together requires getting along. No one gets everything that matters to them. I didn't. He didn't.
Obsessing about anything -- including money, or the children's 'achievements' -- tends to create a toxic atmosphere.
Hire a cleaner. Pay them well. They'll be happy for the income. Use the time you gain to make more money.
It's society that holds women back, by hiring fewer of us & paying us less -- not the housework. Young kids consume a lot of women's time. But they grow up quickly
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If vacuuming is important to you, and you do not want to do it, ... get a Roomba!
Seriously our brains (and for all creatures) outsource's expertise as much as possible. That is how we advance. We get a mate so we can share (and specialize in) tasks. Couples are happiest when they share, without burdening each other.
We are constantly gaining technical labor saving devices, use them, get a maid, drop it, or meditate on the task. If it is important it will get done. MAYBE it is not as important as it seems. S/he may be right to ignore it. MAYBE!
When i studied Sociology 50 years ago i saw studies saying that. The new fangled thing then was to 'share equitably', 'Womens lib' etc. The younguns then who followed that were LESS happy than older 'traditional' couples.
Well, do women pay for dates? Open car doors for the man?
You want it one way...your way.
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@Richard K Women do pay for dates, often. And women open their own doors. I've never been a relationship where they dynamic was not at least split in those ways, and often tipped towards women paying more. Maybe you are consciously choosing relationships with outdated relationship roles?
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I'd like to point out that many tasks are or could be outsourced, actually for a lower cost. There are also different requirements for living in the city and that young people might have different preferences, i.e., city-living and not owning a car.
Laundry - It is not cheaper to do one's laundry, and easier to have it done by someone else.
Repairs - Apartment living means that there are fewer maintenance tasks and that many are not even possible, given rules.
Groceries - Although there are labor issues, considering the low-income of people that deliver, groceries are cheaper, since the services don't have to maintain expensive real estate.
Cooking - This can be a choice, but yes, buying organic, pre-packaged items can be expensive, although it does reduce the amount of work and removes the drudgery.
Car maintenance - I walk to work, as did my spouse, spend weekends enjoying the city on long walks, and using public transportation when necessary. We rent cars when needed, and although expensive, cheap when compared to the cost of full ownership in the city.
Modern tasks of electronics, media, and social platform management - Requirements of life have changed, and I spend more time maintaining our streaming library, as well as maintaining my social presence than I do on any traditional tasks.
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@James Igoe "Maintaining my social presence!" Ha! Best thing I read all day.
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Wow, you coulda fooled me, I’ve been doing most of the vacuuming, laundry, decorating and fashion consulting for sixty plus years in all my relationships but one; but I rely on my significant other(s) to do anything remotely involving handyman stuff, I wouldn’t attempt to fix or repair anything.
AH this article hits home for me. I have felt this imbalance with my last two relationships with men who grew up in homes where the mother focused on chores and the sons hardly took part. I voice my opinion firmly and at times it feels like giving instructions to a child, we just would like someone as proactive as us.
I get how some men might think the division makes things even; Men do outdoor chores and women do indoor chores and it's a done deal. As someone else mentioned, if you tally up how often and how many hours go into some of these recurring chores, indoor chores are going to beat out "Male" chores.
TO add another spin on the above, us millennials basically have no outdoor house chores. We rent, we live at home, we barely have a place which mean this excludes any possible outdoor "Male chores". So honestly it just feels disproportionate entirely from my POV since I'm constantly a house manager for our apartment. Picking things up, re-ordering items, organizing, buying groceries. Help us out guys we are exhausted.
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I love my Dyson. Got it at CostCo. Awesome.
I raised two sons in the 1970s and 1980s and always told them they had to know how to do housework, including vacuuming. We lost the elder one decades ago, but I have often arrived at my other son's home to see him doing the vacuuming, despite the fact that he had a full time job and his wife a part-time one. They have three teenage sons, who I hope are learning the same lesson.
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"almost a quarter said it was for the man to work full time and the woman to stay home, a larger share than desired any other arrangement"
I'm guessing they are mostly from working-class households, not those where mom is a professional earning 6 figures?
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@NH well... most of the country is working class... so hopefully the majority of questioned were representative of the economic hardships faced on most of the country... but who knows for sure
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I don't believe it. I am a white male who graduated H.S. in 1976. When Reagan killed the Union's in the 80's I went from a $40k a year job to $ 15,600 a year. My wife was forced to go to work, which she found in government. I attempted to go back to school, as she very quickly outpaced my earnings. She was fortunate to be young, attractive and a perfect fit for EEO opportunities. She never did cook, do laundry or vacuum. She was a poor mother to our children. I picked up that slack. I couldn't finish college due to economics. I was blackballed from the work force because I was a stay at home Dad. I eventually divorced this woman and married another. Wash rinse, repeat. I eventually got into construction/service management at substandard wages. Now, on my 3rd wife, I still do the menial tasks around the house because I am good at it.
The thing is, I know many men who do the same. Most of them are in the same position I am/was. A lost generation of men, who have lost their place in the workforce, salary wise, to their wives.
And by the way, when did interior decorating become a gender based "task"?
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Well, this boomer has always done the vacuuming (it’s my inside mowing), and after we became empty-nesters I make almost all the breakfasts and always make the morning pour-over coffee. I do a portion of the laundry, certainly not all. She does the dusting before I vacuum. Taxes, accounts (now that we don’t get checks back) and reservations are mostly mine. Is it completely equal? I suppose not, but good enough for us so far after 44 years. Never even watched You Tube to learn these things. I guess going to YMCA camp and learning to clean the cabin and do “service hour” (now sadly eliminated) had some carryover . . .
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People simply have different living and cleanliness standards.
My husband does not care if the floor is dirty but I do and can't stand it, so I vacuum. He does most of the cooking because he cares about what we eat.
He has his own office/room and it can stay as messy as he likes (and it sure stays messy), but the rest of the house stays clean. We have no conflict this way.
Other men I know like things cleaner than their wives and so deal with more of the cleaning.
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@NH I would add that many couples I know give up and simply hire cleaners but I don't like the concept of having someone in my house cleaning my stuff. I value privacy too much. Cleaning does not take that much time anyway if you spread it out.
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Well, I have some great news. I'm a male, 86 years old, never married, and I still don't do housework. If it doesn't get done today, maybe it will get done tomorrow, or perhaps not. Who really cares???
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When I went back to work five years ago (after five years of being a stay-at-home parent to our two young children) I had a massive panic attack. Doing so much of the household labor and mental labor for our family plus working outside our home was too much. My full-time working husband stepped up. He makes them breakfast every morning, packs their lunch, cooks dinner a few nights a week, handles the trash, deals with everything pet related, deals with everything car related, deals with most house related maintenance, handles all yard work in all seasons.... and he is utterly worn down and exhausted by it! He does it, but freely admits regularly just how much work is involved and often his only desire on his birthday and Father’s Day is the “gift” of getting a break. Of course I still do everything else (groceries and laundry and cleaning and clothes buying and birthdays and school stuff and camp and doctors and dentists and holiday gift buying and vacation planning and maintaining our social life etc. etc.) The sheer amount that is involved in the home life of people in our class level is ridiculous. The culprit: so very few cultural and government supports for families, all families. Also, the outdated cultural baggage we swim in every day (consider “classic” films and tv shows and books).Housework is not inherently gendered (seriously my vulva does not imbue me with magic cleaning skills) and I’m raising our boys to know that everyone helping out means less work overall.
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Reading stats like these makes me even more appreciative of my amazing parents. My dad became a stay-at-home dad in 1982, doing some legal work on the side. Throughout my childhood, each parent did the housework they preferred. To this day, Dad vacuums, does laundry, cooks, fixes things, and grocery shops. Mom does dishes, mows the lawn, cleans bathrooms, and tidies. I had no idea until my own friends started getting married how unusually egalitarian my parents are! A great role model for my brothers and I, as well as our childhood friends.
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Could I also suggest: men don't care. To wit: I will have female friends over for dinner/book club and spend a frantic hour cleaning. My husband has a bourbon/cigars club over once a month. What does he do to prep? Nothing! Kids' shoes scattered in the living room, discarded coats and track clothes near the door, a somewhat grubby bathroom -- he doesn't care nor do his guests. You gotta care to clean stuff up.
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@Kathleen Mills Exactly. I care about how my apt looks when people come over and in general. He doesn't. The only time my husband cleans is when I've been traveling and he knows that it's stressful to come home to a destroyed house (esp since I usually clean before I leave, for some reason). We equal it out in other ways but to your point, you gotta care to clean, and he just does not.
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@Kathleen Mills ahh well thats good i guess, perhaps men are less likely judge each other over their children actions so long as they aren't rude or impolite perhaps and are more inclined to see things laying about as proof of a happy family and kids living a good life... just accepting it as part of the natural life
somewhere along the way i guess it just became normal
perhaps it has to do with something about hiding how wealthy people were back in the day and leaving things scattered around was seen as a declaration that they were wealthy enough to not guard their few possessions jealously... im sure most of our behavior can be figured out if you got a time machine and went back hundreds of years to observe village life and castle life
well i am glad you guys are able to enjoy life and have clubs and gatherings, that is good
A good article about the struggles of rich white people in North America. "The fact that home life doesn’t look all that different from half a century ago" may not ring true to working class and lower class Americans. Half a century ago was the cusp of the no-fault divorce revolution. Home life looked like two parents and their biological children in one dwelling. Today? A "single parent" and a mixture of children with diverse biological parentage.
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@Philip Greenspun ehhhhh.... i wouldnt ever bring down anyone for having mixed children, as long as they are loved and know they are loved they should grow up relatively great so long as they dont ever hear disparaging remarks about thier birth parents or families... that is one of the most destructive things you can do to a kid, ragging on thier birth parents or step parents, never should do that, just treat them well and dont judge them... they know they are different but it wont bother them if people dont make it an issue, once it becomes an issue you plant a seed that causes them pain and suffering for no reason
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have researchers asked questions what would get at whether a woman tends to do more household chores because thats what she views as a quintessential part of "adulting"? As girls and young women, we see our mothers handling all of the household chores and then as adults we think, "this is what you do if you're an adult - you do the dishes, sweep the door, dust..." and maybe men don't think that because their role models don't do those things?
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How much money you bring in should not determine your share of the chores--but sadly, in my house, it does (but in an unspoken way). My job is as demanding as my spouse's. I earn a very healthy income, but he earns a healthier income. As a result, I cook, do the kids' laundry, handle all appointments, gift shopping, family events, kids' events and scheduling needs and paperwork, figuring out summer camps, etc. I finally outsourced cleaning last year (what a relief). If I get home late from work meetings, no one takes the initiative to start dinner. When I had two surgeries over the past year, I got a week off--and then everything reverted back to me. I'm totally fried ... just keep telling my daughters to carve a different path :) If I bring it up, I'm accused of complaining: "I help more than other men do"--arrggh.
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The great thing is that it is never too late to learn any of these skills. If you are a grown man, you can take a class, ask for help, watch youtube, or search the internet to learn basic housekeeping chores. You don't need to blame your parents, society, etc. Take the initiative to learn. If the house is half yours, then the mess is half yours and you had better learn to deal with it because the mundane and tedious chores of everyday life will end only when you are dead. Be an adult and contribute and prevent resentment from building into something bigger.
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@H And the great thing about cleaning gutters, changing mower belts and oil, fixing sewer pumps, fixing sump pumps, digging a new leach field, fixing the broken vacuum, fixing the sewing machines, painting the outside of the house, fixing plumbing, wiring, masonry, screens, repairing stoves, dishwashers, clothes washers, felling and cutting up dead trees, changing overhead and outdoor light bulbs, and putting hay in the barn for the horses, buying feed, taking out the trash, shoveling snow, shoveling manure and so on is that most anyone can do them at almost any age. I buy groceries, cook, clean, vacuum, change diapers, go to work, do the taxes, manage our finances and so on and I don't know who these guys are who don't vacuum but my guess is they are the same guys who don't know a hammer from darning egg. But for you women who are over six feet like I am, I bet you have yet to find a vacuum that is tall enough so try this, get a spare section of tube and splice in a longer wire and then you won't have to stoop over to vacuum.
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@Will Hunt you know what... i like your talk of vacuums and other utensils for taller people... i hate stooping to do things, it used to bother me, now i stoop all the time and dont stand to my full height all the time... someone should make a larger vaccuum that is designed for 6 to 7 foot people, call it the ultra hoover or something, and have it cover a larger area too... more vacuuming, and give it the ability to roll sideways for tighter areas between furnitor perhaps with a quick shifting handle that has a button you can press next to the on/off switch and design it how gamers are used to having things, all the buttons in fingers reach while pushing it
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Should be "different-sex couples" not "opposite sex."
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As a highly-educated woman who works in tech--a competitive male-dominated field--I am constantly disappointed to see my equally-well educated and qualified female colleagues receiving the majority calls from daycare when their child is sick, there is an issue at school, etc. This arrangement persists, despite the fact that in most of these households, these successful women are the primary earner.
Women need to demand from men (at least) equal share in child-rearing, household chores, etc, and we need equal parental leave for men and women if we ever expect women to hold the same number of leadership positions and earn the same salaries as men.
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@Madeleine do the women secretely want control over the kids calls though? i mean it may be a case where they say one thing but actually want to be the one to deal with the kids calls because they don't want to surrender control to the husband and his opinion of things when something happens at school... i mean tech is a competitive field and competitive people don't always like surrendering control even to loved ones
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Nor do we dust. As I have patiently explained many times to my wife, I don't see dirt, just beauty.
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@james haynes ahh thats great i am glad so far its working out... you could always over to be more engaged with her hobbies or interests or enjoyable games she likes to make up for not dusting... sometimes thats a win win
There's a Queer Eye episode where the guys take on a widower with kids. Very sad, of course, but it answers the question some commenters have of what happens when a single dad is forced to deal with the house. The answer? It's a pigsty, and yes, they ate frozen processed foods at every meal. Laundry? The deceased wife/mom's mother came over to do it for them every week.
I also agree with commenters pointing out that women are judged more harshly for not keeping up appearances and social norms, and this compels us (sometimes) to do more house/family work than a man would. I get all kinds of shade from my in laws when we fail to send gifts on holidays and birthdays. My husband doesn't do it and I'm not going to deal with cards and gifts for an entire second family. I already have my own to deal with. But somehow I am to blame in their eyes.
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@Kas I'm glad you mentioned gift giving for extended family members. I think about this a lot, but can't figure out how it happens that women are saddled with coming up with gift ideas for both sides of the family.
8
@Patti Gagan because women didnt used to have jobs so they would get to know the extended family really well and i think families used to share alot more mail and would probably send cards and letters that were closer to books in terms of sharing whats going on in thier families lives to give the wives information and better ideas of how they are doing and dealing with familie difficulties.. i mean its not inherently bad how we used to be, we may even come closer to that era someday when technology gets there fully, no jobs for anyone, all automated, everyone becomes gamers and family suport each other emotionally and intellectually... it may become a paradise who knows
Ex-wife of someone here. What men don't understand is that today girls are being raised to consider equality. They are being raised to conquer their own futures. I was raised in this way.
Then, reality check. I married someone who turned out to believe that women did everything at home (he said one thing, but reality was another).
Men: Do you want a happy marriage? The increasing rage that grew and grew as I saw the inbalance of work in my home life helped to destroy my marriage. Men who believe women exist to "take care of it" will eventually end up with a rage-filled wife, a sick wife (if she turns that anger in on herself), or no wife (if she reaches a point where she has had enough, like me). Do you get it?
35
@Cate This is the same (one of the main) reason I left my husband too.
6
@Cate I feel the same. I'm not there yet, but I honestly think it would be easier to not have a spouse than have one. It's not like he remotely pulls his weight.
10
@Cate parents tend to tell their daughters they can do or be anything but they forget to inform their sons.
11
Look vacuuming is a perfect male oriented job. It is running a machine, it’s loud, and if you leave it out when you finish it’s like showing your wife the carcass of something you have hunted and bought back to the cave for her.
126
@Tony Francis Except that it conjures up this image of Freddie Mercury. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4Mc-NYPHaQ
Most young men don't vacuum, even when there are no women in the household. They simply do not see the need.
This behavior is gender neutral. The gender of the person they share an apartment with is irrelevant.
Women are more likely to care about whether an apartment has been vacuumed, and they are more likely to vacuum. In general, people do things that they care about and leave undone things which they don't believe need to be done.
5
Women are more likely to care because they are more likely to be judged. When guests come over and see a dirty carpet, they’ll pass judgement on the wife and not the husband.
19
The problem with these studies is that they never take into account the type of work that men or women do outside the home. Often, men have more demanding work outside the home than women (I know, it's politically incorrect to say so). Poll yourself and your friends, and ask realistically - on balance - who is more likely to have the more demanding job outside the home? Traditional job roles still impact work outside the home and in many couples there is a trade-off: men take a more demanding job outside the home, and women do more work inside the home. Despite the political correctness of acknowledging this fact, we pretend otherwise. But it's neither good science nor good public policy. You cannot just call a job a job and measure all these things as if men and women faced the same pressures outside the home. Different jobs are different. For example, see - https://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/04/the-10-most-dangerous-jobs-for-men.html. Men are far more likely to have the most dangerous jobs in America, men die at much higher rates than women, and yes - men - on balance, tend to do less housework. Fair disclosure: my wife is disabled, and I do ALL the housework plus ALL the work outside the home. Not complaining but my "lived reality" macks a mockery of these kinds of articles.
@Jason I hold a stereotypically "male" job in tech and my husband holds a stereotypical "female" job as a teacher. I earn significantly more than him.
We have always thought it most equitable, and best for our relationship to divide household chores equally. I have no desire to lord my greater financial contribution to our household over him--women don't do that. So why do men?
12
My mother used to say the “there has never been a man murdered with dishpan hands”. It was and is a wise observation.
7
Shocking. /endsarcasm
1
Part of this could be timing of the survey. The article mentions that high school students were surveyed. In high school, I would have likely answered that a man should work and a woman should stay at home. My views quickly changed in college. Now I’m 10 years out of high school and I do all the cleaning and cooking for my house. When I get married, I don’t envision that changing at all. My girlfriend doesn’t really enjoy cleaning and I don’t mind most household chores. We also utilize a cleaning service for the jobs that neither of us want to do (dusting, window washing, etc).
2
@Eli Luke thats good and wonderful... but do you really think they surveyed high schoolers who arent even married? either way it can be relaxing too if you cook and shopping, honestly theres alota great things about being a at home spouse and i find it strange how it ever became a hated task... honestly it should be one of the best things in the world and if people hate it so much it isnt the tasks, its something to do with how society views it or treats people who do it, or ridiculous expectations by society on said person that are irrelevent to the idea of raising a family
All those who like vacuuming, raise your hands. I thought so.
There are two likely reasons that men and women do different shares of housekeeping; (a) biological differences, (b) men tend to work longer hours at more physically demanding jobs than women.
The biological differences are primarily a stronger nest-making instinct than men, as well as a greater concern with how the mother-in-law will view her housekeeping, or more generally, her peers.
My wife is better at cooking and I am better at washing dishes so she does the former and I do the latter. It works well for us.
2
This guy, does all the cleaning, dishes, animal care in the house AND i have several male friends that do the same. I guess it's more likely in a conservative state.
As an idealistic male youth, I talked gender equality thinking that my virtue signaling would endear me to the opposite sex. It did not. When I embraced without apology my knuckle-dragging inner caveman, I found myself with a gorgeous, high-achieving European fiancee. Go figure. We hire a cleaning lady. I cook so long as the recipe calls for red meat.
1
@DeKay
It's almost like women can see through disingenuous virtue-signaling and are able to tell that you don't really mean it but think it will get you laid.
27
I'm a woman, and I squarely blame women for this: For marrying lazy men who think that housework is women's work, and for raising boys to think that housework is women's work.
You reap what you sow.
14
@TTG,
I definitely have told my daughter to not give the time of day to a potential partner of either gender who can’t do the basic chores of daily life and show entitlement characteristics.
9
@TTG
Why blame women for men's bad behavior? Don't worry TTG, your shipment of male approval is on its way!
9
@TTG In fairness, none of us "raised" our husbands.
5
Well, let's see: Women accepted the view that childrearing and housekeeping are grunt worth, devoid of any economic or social value, and that the only work that matters is work done for pay in the workforce.
Why are we surprised that men categorically refuse to vacuum or look after children? Why would they want to waste their time on such trivial work?
What about this: What if instead, in the early days of the women's movement, we said, "Childrearing and housekeeping have enormous economic and social value. So men absolutely must do half of this work if women are going to start bringing home paychecks for work done outside the home."
Let's face it: We blew it. And now we have to work pretty hard to reverse the damage done by denigrating the work 1950s housewives spent their entire waking hours doing.
7
The individuals who are quoted by name in this article are women. Did the NYT reporter find any comments from men? Did she look for any?
5
Roomba on a timer baby.
3
I vacuum!!!
2
Long ago, before I was married, couples generally did not live with each other before they were man and wife. As a consequence it was not easy to find out how you wife was going to behave in the cleaning department. The general procedure at that time was to observe her mother to see what you would be seeing in 20 years regarding appearance and how your new wife was going to keep house.
If her mother liked you, it was possible to learn many things about what your new wife would be like. If your mother liked your soon to be wife she would tell her many stories from which she could learn what she was getting herself into.
Of course, that all worked out fine until a child was born, after which a lackadaisical person suddenly became extremely concerned with having a clean and well functioning home. Usually, it is the wife who is the most concerned with making a home out of the chaos a baby can create.
I don't think that men and women can ever be the same about cleaning; women in my experience are much more concerned and most men just don't care that much. I really don't think that there will ever be an equal distribution of labor at home.
But ladies, if you really need to make your man clean very carefully, go to a pet shop and buy a nice grey mouse and leave it in the living room when he's watching TV. That will wake him up.
4
@Joel Friedlander I guess by your lights, if women observed the behavior of their future husband's fathers, then very few women would get married.
PS - the mouse idea hasn't panned out...
6
My wife and I seem to have managed fine for almost 30 years - whoever gets home first typically cooks. I do laundry, she usually vacuums, but we split up the house cleaning (divide and conquer). We have different tidying styles and she likes to keep things whereas I'm more likely to throw them out, so she generally organizes and I look after the yard work.
I used to be annoyed that my younger sister was so stressed about cleaning, parenting and doing all of the housework until I learned that she followed her husband around and redid all of his work... it seemed he could never clean well enough not matter how hard he tried, so he stopped trying.
People need to figure out what works best for their situations, there is not a one-size fits all solution.
7
Seems your brother-in-law just pulled the old “willful incompetence” card.
I.e - doing something poorly so they never have to do it again.
21
@nvguy I'm guessing the difference is children.
Reasons to participate in household chores:
1.) YOU LIVE HERE
Done. That’s it. That simple.
29
The real story here is one of expectations. If domestic expectations were clearly defined beforehand and the jobs divided, men might live up to a division. That is not the case. Especially with the non-quantifyable jobs like emotional labor. Women have higher standards of cleanliness. Men are willing to settle for less.
2
this doesn't surprise me. it's in men's self-interest for women to develop themselves outside the home, as it leads to more money, interesting conversations etc., but the same cannot be said for housework. additionally, much of the housework is deemed necessary only by women. to illustrate, think of a once single, now coupled man you know and ask yourself: did he do all of the housework when he lived alone? Answer: yes, but the housework did not include certain things now deemed necessary (e.g. cooking, cleaning, picking up, bathing)
7
This article and some of the comments suggest the following line of inquiry: What happens with housework in divorced families with shared custody where where the parents live in separate households? Since I have not heard of an epidemic of Social Services interventions into the households of divorced fathers, I'd guess that things don't go entirely feral at Dad's place. That housework still gets done, but done in different ways, and perhaps to different standards. What would be interesting about such a study are the details that emerge: How things get done differently at Mom's place vs. Dad's. This might contribute to increased understanding of the different ways things can be accomplished. Gender roles may be a social construct, but so is the imperative to fold laundry.
So how about it NYT? Has anyone researched this?
7
@gnowxela
Ha! I haven't researched it but I can tell you what happened when my parents divorced. We lived with my dad. During the transition there was this weird gap until he realized he had to do all of these things. The examples that stick out in my mind are--
Not having any lunch for school.
He didn't know what sort of soap we used.
Laundry didn't get done.
Our bathroom didn't get cleaned.
19
@C’s Daughter : Excellent! What happened as dad began to realize these things? What solutions did you all come up with? How were the solutions different that what mom would have done? Perhaps there's a book in this: "What to Expect When You're Divorcing". Anecdotally, I have found that guys tend to respond to lists with explanations.
1
The point the article is trying to make is that getting agreement is only the start. To get people to do a task, you have to explain, convincingly, why that task has to be done. If the person finds a way to do the task that satisfies the why, and you don't think it's the right way, then you have to explain why you don't think it's the right way. It can take longer, but if you really want to change behavior through understanding, that's what is necessary.
I am a bit skeptical of surveys from high school students. The article also doesn't mention if the results are similar for men and women or if there is some difference between the too. For example, the article states that 23% prefer a family with a stay-at-home mother. If those numbers are similar coming from men vs women, is it an issue? Likewise if it is something like 40%+ of men thing a stay-at-home mother is preferable and then something like 5% of women, that would totally change how one should view the results.
What really surprised me was the bls American Time Use Survey showing men spending 1h25m and women 2h15m of time on household activities. This doesn't jive with the anecdotal evidence I see in my life and my peers. It'd be interesting to see that data split between younger couples (say under age 40) and those older to see if there is a trend towards it being more equal.
I vacuum less than my girlfriend because I don't care as much about dusty floors than she does. Just doesn't bother me. Guess I'm a male chauvinist pig, as they used to say in the olden days. On the other hand, she is terrified of electricity. So, I change all light bulbs. So she must be constrained by sexism, I guess. The only explanations!
3
Who do you think invented Roombas?
4
Disappointed in this piece. There is so much information available that offers alternative explanations and viewpoints to this conversation, and yet Claire seems decided from start to finish that men and women taking on different household responsibilities = gender inequality in society. This is such an incredibly short-sighted assessment of a massively complex topic.
There's literally zero evidence being offered here to support the thesis of this piece—that continuing traditional household responsibilities are "holding women back." Yes, these studies show that men and women do the same things at home that they always have, but offering that data is pointless without answering the question that actually matters: Why?
There's plenty of scientific data to support a different understanding of these studies, and it's literally a Google search away. And unlike the studies being discussed here, they aren't new. To not address that elephant in the room, and to make such bold claims as are being made here without crafting a stronger argument is a pretty blatant demonstration of confirmation bias. But I suppose people can get away with that nowadays.
This should have been a tweet, not a NYT article. The data is definitely interesting, but it doesn't prove anything that the author is claiming it does.
11
Perhaps it's the perception of each gender about when the cleanliness is "good enough". I've seen this time and again, when a woman is frantically cleaning some household item or space and it already seems overly-clean as it is.
Why should a man take extraordinary effort to clean to their partner's over-the-top specifications? Perhaps women are handcuffing themselves to this level of cleaning and trying to reach some benediction that only comes from an approving mother or grandmother with a white glove.
11
nice try, but no
17
Here's the thing, though: if some critical extended family member or visitor does come along with a figurative white glove, the wife is more likely to be judged, regardless of the actual household dynamics. Both spouses might be fine with "good enough" - for that matter, the husband could be the one with greater preference for tidiness - but only one usually has to worry about being side-eyed for it.
19
@Steve M I agree. I used to see this with my parents. My dad never did it well enough and so he stopped trying. Neither did we. However I take the approach that what my husband cleans is good enough. He cleans the bathrooms and the kitchen. I clean the bedrooms and the living room. He doesn't judge me and I don't judge him and we do very well. I also agree with D that we women get judged more by others. I have resolved that situation by not caring. We do not need to care. :)
13
My very! ex live-in boyfriend would talk about how women deserved equal pay, yet told me straight up he would be incredibly insulted if I should make more money than him. When I worked at a job that was labor intensive but paid less than his (I was still in college) he declared he didn’t need to do his fair share of chores because he made more money. If there were dishes in the sink, but one wasn’t his, he was absolved from washing them! It seems like when you keep on moving the goal post back farther and farther you always win.
I take it way too many people think this way. Stop letting one person call the shots, these only work in one person’s favor!
18
One of the key qualifiers in this discussion is “in the home.” If you add everything outside the home - painting, car maintenance, chopping wood, etc. ... all the so-called guy stuff - the percentages change.
1
@Craig Johnson
How often do you chop wood or paint or do car maintenance v. do laundry, clean dishes, scrub toilets, clean the bathroom, cook dinner, take out the trash, mop the floor, vacuum, or do child care?
Notice any patterns in the so-called "guy stuff" v. what must be the woman stuff by default?
29
I do all of the above.
@Craig Johnson
You've missed the point of my question completely.
I suspect that a lot of the division of labour in housework/cleaning depends on how much a “clean” house matters to each partner.
Bachelors are notorious for living in dirty, messy dives, especially when they are in shared, male houses, whereas women are judged much more by their peers if they live in squalor.
So my take on this is that, in a lot of cases, the wife actually cares much more that cleanliness in the house is up to her standards, and that if she did not do the cleaning, her husband would neither do it himself nor complain about the increased mess.
Given a choice between more free time or a cleaner house, most men would always choose the former.
So here’s a suggestion for the wives: as an experiment, just gradually stop doing the housework, or only do as much as your husband does (but do NOT make an issue of it) and see what happens. I suspect the man’s tolerance for a messy/dirty house is much higher than the woman’s (of course we are generalising here), and that he would hardly notice if the change were gradual.
I think, in a lot of cases, we do what we care about most.
7
@Arthur It took my wife and I years, but we finally found a happy midpoint in cleanliness, most of the time!
2
This is why, for 27 years of marriage, my husband and I have never lived together. I knew he was a slob when I dated him, and I decided then that I was not going to be his maid. So, I stayed in the house I had bought before I knew him and he bought a house a few blocks away. We raised three kids in our two homes, with the kids spending time wherever they wanted. My husband and I spend 2 or three nights a week together, generally eat together and spend time visiting, but we each enjoy our alone time, as well. It's worked for us for over two decades. He's still a slob, and my home is neat and tidy. We're both happy. No arguments about who should do what. There are many ways to be married. No one says you have to do what everyone else does.
56
@Ms. Pea Must be nice to afford 2 homes.
We simply have "his room" in the house - all his personal stuff is there, and its also his office and there is a spare bed in there. It can stay as messy as he likes and I never complain - and I also do not go in there to clean (he is a slob).
The rest of the house stays clean. Sometimes I get annoyed at the bathroom he uses more than me, but honestly it takes 20 min to clean once a week, not a huge deal.
4
As usual, interpretations of a simplistic survey exacerbate its simplifications of a complex reality. The question was whether the guy is MORE likely to do the kind of work. That's a high bar. Then, there's tolerance for work undone. If one partner is trained not to care about some issues, like whether there are socks on the floor, they may be not cleaning up when the other partner does care and cannot tolerate the socks. That's not about society training a gender to serve or expect service as much as society training a gender to focus on certain aesthetic issues. Not the same thing for dishes and garbage, since that's partly about sanitation. This is complex. Your article doesn't clarify it.
4
As far as child-rearing goes, generally speaking, Moms do it better. We have a unique role and relationship to our kids. Its not to say men can't do it well, but there are biological realities that should be faced, and a civilized, equitable society would do more to make sure that this fact doesn't hold women back economically.
Housework is a drag and is avoided by those of us who can. But I suspect that women tend to care more about getting it done than their male partners. And that may be in large part due to our maternity. And many of us do it all and resent our partners for it. But that's our fault. If he doesn't care about a vacuumed rug or a clean toilet, that, ladies, is your problem. So go clean the toilet and don't make him dinner. Vacuum and don't wash his clothes.
Or sit down and take serious stock of the division of labor. Running a household is serious business, and your time is money. Decide who does what and keep each other on it like an employer would.
2
32 years ago I married a lovely slob. I am compulsively neat. I can't help myself, neither can he. Right from the beginning I realized that if I want to be happy, I have to make sure my environment is such that I am comfortable. So I clean up. 32 years later, I still do. I don't complain, this is what I need. He doesn't complain that the stuff he leaves around everywhere magically disappears, either into the garbage or to its rightful place. We source out the stuff that neither wants to do, like lawn mowing, window washing, cleaning and car things that need to be done. Nobody's keeping score either. It works for us.
5
Well how about feminists stop judging the choices most families make. It is not the business of feminists to approve or reject if every family arrangement is approved be feminist Hive mind/Big Brother. Families in general make arrangements that work for them.
I think feminists should devote more time lobbying Congress to enact better Parental leave, sick leave and other essential safety net features that are missing in America. Those benefits will make families lives easier and more comfortable. Feminist propaganda has not helped anyone yet...
4
If it weren’t for feminists you wouldn’t have much of a CHOICE to make when it comes to family dynamics. You would be at home dependent on your husband.
3
That is okay for I hate vacuuming too. My spouse does it;-)
1
I vacuumed all the time.
My ex-wife never did.
1
Of course, there is interest in women having careers. It brings in money. Husbands don't want to see that women have a whole other unpaid job, because it is easier not to look. They somehow don't notice the bulging hamper or the dirt on the floor. If they ignore it long enough, their partner gives in and does the job herself.
15
I remember growing up and my mom training me to be a 'good housewife.' At her insistence I took cooking and sewing classes in school. While I had two brothers (one two years old and the other two years younger), as the only 'girl' I was expected to help her sweep, dust, vacuum, cook, iron, help with the laundry, and clean the windows while my brothers did NOTHING. I was also expected to do half the yard work. There was many a summer where I would mow the entire backyard and come into the house and my brothers were lounging on the sofa, doing nothing.
I quickly learned that being a female is about doing a lot of thankless work, while the males do almost nothing to help. I grew up very bitter about a female's place in society and vowed at a young age that I would never marry, have kids and be a housewife. The universe must have heard me because I finally realized I was gay and now only take care of myself!
21
To complete the standard NYTs handwringing article, a thorough study is needed on relative housework performance of trans-women (men) vs. trans-men (women).
1
I'm 40, went to an Ivy League school, and have a successful career. Almost all of my college girl friends are in similar situations. Almost all of us are in happy marriages where the husband is an equal partner on both the domestic front and the career front. I see similar patterns in the relationships of the women I work with closely.
Even the relationships where there is a more traditional breakdown of duties, the men still are involved in household chores and childcare, and the women usually have at least some income.
I know this is not everyone's experience, but I do think the tide is changing. It may be showing up in certain socio-economic groups moreso than others, but I think there is a general trend toward that direction. My experiences, and those of almost all my friends/colleagues/relatives, don't reflect the statistics in this article.
10
I'm 40, went to an Ivy League school, and have a successful career. Almost all of my college girl friends are in similar situations. Almost all of us are in happy marriages where the husband is an equal partner on both the domestic front and the career front. I see similar patterns in the relationships of the women I work with closely.
Even the relationships where there is a more traditional breakdown of duties, the men still are involved in household chores and childcare, and the women usually have at least some income.
I know this is not everyone's experience, but I do think the tide is changing. It may be showing up in certain socio-economic groups moreso than others, but I think there is a general trend toward that direction. My experiences, and those of almost all my friends/colleagues/relatives, don't reflect the statistics in this article.
3
I'm 40, went to an Ivy League school, and have a successful career. Almost all of my college girl friends are in similar situations. Almost all of us are in happy marriages where the husband is an equal partner on both the domestic front and the career front. I see similar patterns in the relationships of the women I work with closely.
Even the relationships where there is a more traditional breakdown of duties, the men still are involved in household chores and childcare, and the women usually have at least some income.
I know this is not everyone's experience, but I do think the tide is changing. It may be showing up in certain socio-economic groups moreso than others, but I think there is a general trend toward that direction. My experiences, and those of almost all my friends/colleagues/relatives, don't reflect the statistics in this article.
2
Interesting question: theoretically, if it was found that a man working full-time and woman staying at home is the optimal scenario for raising children, would the sociologists and others cited in this article accept that? Or would their desire for the liberal ideal of equal outcomes override the scenario that maximized benefits for the entire family?
There's nothing wrong for a woman to be a stay-at-home mom, if the husband and wife mutually come to that conclusion, even if that might require some personal sacrifice. The problem is if the decision is not mutual, in which case the issue is more a problem with the relationship than with society.
8
Why is the impetus for men to earn a higher salary than his wife such a bad thing. Wouldn't it be a disaster if both vied for this? It would be an ongoing source of wasted conflict. Let one or the other chase it, not both, and certainly why force it to the female? If she does most of the work at home, let her mate make up for it on the income side. And perhaps spending more effort with the kids, is really what she wants to do with her extra time (from chores that the husband does). They're differences between men and women that can't be forced, they are natural.
2
@Al Morgan
why is impetus for men to earn a higher salary than his wife such a bad thing ? Wouldn't it be a disaster if it weren't even needed to consider ?
Woman are as smart , driven and professional as men !!
It is human nature and power/privilege is not given up easily. I am close to retiring and things have not changed much since I was a young physician. There are a few Marty Ginsbergs out there who truely support wives at work and home, but not many. There are also lots of men who are happy to have their wife bring home a big paycheck then put her down to "feel like a man". I have seen it with lots of my woman physician friends. It works both ways. Sometimes the man is the problem, sometimes the woman is the problem, but bottom line, it has not changed much. Whether working more hours or not, women usually shoulder the bigger burden at home. Two income couples are usually fine before children. It is after the children arrive that tensions start. And then there is the old problem of men who really don't want to work. Just like there are some women who really don't want to work either inside or outside the home. At least now woman can have good paying jobs so their families don't have to live in poverty!
8
In my 20s and early 30s, I found that my peers had much more idealistic and non-conformist attitudes towards gender roles. That’s easier to do when you are dating, unburdened, just growing in life. Once kids enter the picture, things often change. You drop a lot of the politics and just focus on doing what needs to be done.
6
As one half of a same-sex male married couple, I also do the majority of those "domestic" tasks - cooking, cleaning, laundry, grocery shopping, and managing finances. I think this is broadly true of most other long-term, cohabiting same-sex couples we know - one partner generally picks up a majority of these tasks, simply for consistency and routine's sake. I think it would bother both of us if we tried to split the same housework tasks down the middle, each doing them a different way each week.
4
I can't speak for other couples, but during my marriage, the default assumption of my ex that she was automatically the better parent--and therefore her opinion was worthe more--was a major source of strife. I can't say if this is prevalent, but I've seen this dynamic in other couples as well. It is toxic, a barrier to effective parenting, and well nigh impossible to eradicate.
7
Fathers are not mothers in training.
1
@Richard Lerner We’re not supposed to say things like that, lest we be hit with the “patriarchy” label.
1
What happens when there are few chores to do, after one outsources, when whole categories of chores disappear, or becomes managing the people that do the chores?
We live in a large Manhattan condo building, with numerous members of 24 hour staff. Major repairs must be done by an outside contractor or by a licensed internal maternal staff. It is easier and cheaper to send out laundry and dry (green) clean. As a two career couple, we have someone come in every 2 weeks to do the cleaning, vacuuming, etc. The chores left over are discretionary, and barely amount to the same kind of work.
Cooking is discretionary, primarily as my spouse wants to cook. I do very well on frozen organic fruits and vegetables, and prepackaged protein products. Garbage still has to get thrown out, a 30 second walk to the garbage chute or the recycling room. Ordering on FreshDirect is most of our food shopping, and even the trip to Trader Joe’s or Fairway is mostly for pleasure items. Then there is the chore of going to the liquor store, across the street. Still, I make the bed everyday for us, and lug the laundry bags to the concierge once a week, as well as have unofficial duties as new streaming video researcher and shipping boxer, for our returns to Zappos or Amazon.
8
@James Igoe
You might want to watch "Parasite".
1
I do want to see Parasite, but is one of its themes inequality? Pardon my assumption, but I've been writing about the harms of inequality since 2003 and had ideas of publishing about it using Hofstede's dimensions and the Gini coefficient. We try to be generous, try to use services that pay fair wages, and certainly don't take advantage of others, but the changes need to come from the top, in better laws to control corporations/wealthy and higher taxes on wealth/income.
Anyway, they are still valid points, even if they seem plutocratic. They could just as likely be attitudes of younger people that don't buy into the same wants of younger generations. Even when I had less money, when my mother asked me when I was going to come home and mow the lawn, I told her she should just hire someone. She did. I doubt she ever regretted it. I didn't. When I lived in Hoboken and worked in Manhattan I found it cheaper to hand my laundry to the local cleaner than do it myself, for a lot less effort. The business that did the work was certainly not 'downstairs' so to speak. In a way, although not a perfect fit, it's called comparative advantage. Besides, I hate drudgery, so will find ways to avoid grunt work, by developing efficiencies, or by paying someone else to do it.
4
I think the only thing reader could glean from your comment is that they simply need to be very wealthy and all the gendered problems will go away.
2
From my own personal experiences with chores and women, this boils down to different standards of when the living space is "clean".
You can see it even when people are young. My locker in middle school/high school was clean if it didn't have moldy food in it. My friend's sister locker was clean only if it was neatly organized with books arranged by period.
You get the point.
4
@LR Some people grow as individuals even after middle school. Shocking, I know.
1
@LR
This is clear stereotyping. I have met women that were far messier than most men I know.
@S.G. there's a difference between messy and dirty. The word sticky was used in a previous post. If I left my house for a week alone w/ my husband and dog, the counter tops, bathroom and living area table tops would be sticky. The floors, due to our vacuum cleaner dog, would be in fine condition.
1
I find, and I suspect I’m not alone, that my wife has a way she does things that don’t agree with her way. After almost 40 years she still supervises my vacuuming, so I only do it when she is out of the house.
I do all the house and my own wash, napkins, table clothes, towels and sheets and she washes her own clothes. I cook 350 nights a year. My wife takes care of her car. I stopped owning and driving years back and shifted to bicycle and public transport. We grocery shop, mostly, together.
There are plenty of things she doesn’t trust my skills with, so I stay out of the way. I do most of the yard and garden work.
I think men will do more chores when their significant other lets them do the work without judgment. Right guys? Women can be so bossy.
13
@Dave Brown Like you, I do it all and also like housework to relax my mind and work out some issues with my consulting jobs. I wait until she is out because I do not need instructions.
3
It is simple, just choose a partner who is willing to share the work. You cannot force anyone to do what they dont want to do.
6
Before kids, my husband and I both worked full time, demanding jobs and split homecare about 55/45 (him at 45).
As new parents both working full time, DH not only didn’t do close to his share (25 percent tops) he didn’t want to recognize or acknowledge it. My efforts at task dividing and adding up hours were met with accusations of bean counting.
The next 5 years were us both working full time, but with me working the the far more demanding and 10:1 breadwinning job. Things finally evened out to 50/50 at home by me stepping back entirely from certain parts of the household (I don’t don’t do much food related). But my husband felt resentful that his job had to come second, even though again - when you add up the hours, I was working a lot harder.
Now? My husband stays home and I work full time. He does 75 percent of the housecare and 50 percent of the child related work. He feels like he gets short shrift because I don’t do more at home. And when I point out that if we add up our hours (including work and all the hours spent on child-related things), I put in more work than he does - he refuses to compare tasks and hours. The resentment seems unjustified.
And I think he is one of the good ones :-).
4
What this article seems to conveniently ignore is the part of this study about time spent at paid employment: 21.4 hrs a week for women vs. 37.1 hrs a week for men. If men are spending an extra 16 hours a week at their jobs it stands to reason they won't be doing as much housework or child care, and I would wager that blame for this is shared across genders. Most girls want a partner who is a "good provider", code language for someone who makes good money. Men feel that pressure, just as women feel pressure to fulfill traditional female roles.
11
I was married for 16 years. My ex and I have a son. When we were married, I prepared all of the school lunches and cooked 95% of the meals in our home. I did all of the parent/teacher meetings, mostly alone without my spouse. Our son took guitar lessons at a music school for 8 years and he played baseball, hockey and rugby for about 10 years. I did most of the pick ups and drops offs for practices, games and music lesson. I organized all of our finances, did all of the meetings with our bank over the years, alone without my spouse. I organized all of the playdates and sleepovers. I organized every birthday party, mostly on my own. We both worked full time jobs as financial industry professionals, though my job as far more demanding. I often would work a 10 hour day, workout for an hour at the gym before going home, only to find my spouse had arrived home at 5:30 PM, but I still had to assist our son with his homework, prepare dinner then do the tidying up. I did this for 16 years. Then I decided I'd had enough and I asked her for a divorce. That's right, I was the man in the relationship. I'd always taken on responsibilities in our home particularly because I wanted to share the load equally. But my ex just did not want ANY of the load. I took a lot on from the beginning of our marriage and she took advantage of my willingness and ability. We argued about the uneven work load, but she just kept refusing to help. I'm told that the same situation exists in her 2nd marriage.
14
@Anon So you understand completely what working women feel then.
3
@Anon It's good that you got out.
5
@NSH Clearly not all working women.
2
The quoted study is problematic by virtue of how the survey question was worded: "The share of men who say they are MORE likely to do a domestic chore than their female partner, by age." If my wife and I are equally likely to do the listed domestic chores, I would have to answer "No" for every category, which skews the results. Not saying this saves men from the reality of domestic inadequacy, but something to consider...
8
i am probably in the 1% so take this with a grain of salt. i don't need to work to earn income, so i am very lucky. however, i am overly educated and LIKE to work and i have a husband who truly believes in "happy wife, happy life." so why am i home taking care of the kids? because THEY want so desperately for me to be here. and yes, i worked full time at a very well-paying job for at least half of their lives (my kids are now 8, 11 and 14) so they've had it both ways. basically, they prefer me at home with them rather than nannies, au pairs or other caregivers. and frankly, i don't blame them
7
I love the comments, “What about home repairs, etc.” It’s not just about doing equal work (although surely you don’t need to fix multiple items daily). Which person in the house gets stuck cleaning the toilet speaks volumes.
9
@Dana
Right? I'm a millennial. I know maybe one man in my peer group who can and will do significant home repairs and he flips houses as a hobby. Most men don't have the skills, much less the inclination. Especially high earners in demanding careers-- we outsource all that. You went to Darden and work at Deloitte and travel 4 days out of the week-- you're not cleaning your own gutters or repairing a leaky faucet. You're hiring a plumber/contractor and your wife works from home that day to let him in.
5
@C’s Daughter Probably hiring someone to cook (or eat out) and clean too..
@OneView
Not on a daily basis. I have many friends who have cleaning services that come on a once or twice a month basis to do deep cleans, but no one I know has a personal chef and a live-in housekeeper. No one eats out every day or even most days.
When a boyfriend of mine moved in with me (my apartment and my name on the lease) I told him he had to pitch in and do his share of the housework. (He never had to do anything when he lived with his parents). He took the vacuum cleaner and started vacuuming the carpet. I sat on the couch and watched him. When he was finished I asked him "Now that wasn't so painful was it?" We both just started laughing. After that he did all of the vacuuming and he actually enjoyed it. He started to pitch in more with the other housework and became so nitpicky I thought he was going to become Felix Unger from "The Odd Couple." I teased him and said "I think I created a monster."
6
Yes, this feminist chooses to do the cooking and laundry while her husband daily does the yard work. The reason? I hate gardening and enjoy baking. My choice. We women hold the power to refuse to do domestic indoor work if we dislike it, and leave it to the guys. Just say no, and get your hands dirty in the yard, if that's your choice. Or earn enough $ to hire a cook and home cleaning service and gardener, if you prefer. A choice.
5
@Anne Russell Leaving it to "who likes what" is no guarantee of a fairly divided household. I have tried just not doing the work, and it just goes undone. Disgusting floors, dirty bathroom, dishes piled, toys and clutter everywhere. That only works if you are willing to live in filth. And sure, I could adjust to living in a dirtier household. But what I noticed is that everyone in the family is in a brighter mood when the house is even minimally clean. I have also tried paying for someone else to do it. And that works fine, but I'm the one that pays for it. How fair is that? When the partner doesn't have the same standard for cleanliness, it's a choice between living in a family silently annoyed by a depressing unkempt environment or doing double work in some way.
This struggle for me is very real. Things were fine when we were just a couple. But with each of 3 children, came increasing inequality in the household management. It was also fine with 1 kid, but once #2 and #3 came, it just got unbearable. I've managed to move the needle a bit by constantly showing my partner where I am doing the lyons share of things, but it's nowhere near equal and I really fear for future generations. People, teach your kids to do chores and contribute to family household management!
1
My advise is to wait and find a mate who has the same standards of hygiene and tidiness that you have. It was a long wait, but well worth it. My advice to young women is if you want your male partner to do housework you should also learn to do some dude things, mowing the yard, maintaining the car, chopping wood, going to the dump etc. Everyone (both sexes) should be self sufficient. My Danish grandmother would say that you need to take care of yourself before you can be a good mate.
10
I’ve gotta wonder about how economic disparity plays into this. Most couples of modest means I know do a good job of sharing workloads in the family. Dads do laundry, moms mow the lawn, dads do dishes, mom takes the cars to get the oil changed (if you’re a man, and changing your own oil just to be more “manly” you’re a fool because you can’t do it for cheaper than the dealership), etc...
Maybe modest income couples don’t necessarily want to share such a workload, but it’s certainly out of necessity. Because both of them work. It’s literally impossible for a family to live a comfortable life without 2 incomes, unless one person is making over $100K. With kids? Forget about it. $100K might not even be comfortable depending on the cost of living of the area.
This sounds like some rich white people stuff. Like they look back at racist 1950s marketing propaganda with admiration instead of disgust.
4
Any man so insecure in his masculinity that he can't do some cleaning or cooking without feeling emasculated is without question a failure in other important ways in his marriage or relationship.
10
Every “ working “ Woman needs a Wife. Step up, Men. Or you will eventually be outsourced.
Seriously.
10
I wish they had added another dimension to the study: socio-economic status. If I had to make a guess, I would venture that the low end and the high end are less equal/more sexist than the middle.
6
The study is seriously flawed. It doesn't take into account the occupation of the man or woman. If you're a concrete finisher, i doubt you do the work around the house that say, an accountant does. After 10 hours spent pulling a bull float, you're rather exhausted.
8
“If young people can’t even envision a model of what men’s time at home might look like, that’s evidence that our beliefs about gender are really strong and sticky,”
I can tell you exactly what a man’s time at home looks like and it's rather sticky. It usually involves things like getting up on a ladder and cleaning leaves out of the gutters on the house. It involves moving the old refrigerator from the kitchen to the basement to make way for a new one. It involves pulling up a toilet to replace the wax ring that seals it to the floor. It involves jacking up the car so he can slide underneath it to change the oil. It involves mowing the lawn, shoveling snow, painting the house, fixing a leak in the roof, hauling a Christmas tree into and out of the house each year, and many other wonderful things that his honey just didn’t feel up to doing.
5
@Mark But all those things you mentioned are occasional work. They compare to things like cleaning the fridge, or putting the winter clothes away for summer (and vice versa) taking the outgrown clothes/toys to donation and etc. And mowing the lawn often involves a riding mower so not even much of a chore.
Washing dishes, doing laundry, the endless chauffeuring, those are all daily chores. And don't compare time wise.
I'd also point out that plenty of women also shovel snow, or trim hedges, or do the lawn. I've seen women in partnerships do all of that on a regular basis. I shovel snow often. And before we lived where we do and had a riding mower, was more likely to do the lawn because the pull mower annoyed my husband. Also was the one to take recycling to the dump.
5
@NSH
Any chore you can do while watching television doesn't compare to one where you can't. I'm a bachelor, so I do everything for myself. The vacuuming and laundry and dishes are the least of my concerns.
1
@Mark
How often do those chores happen versus things like:
Making dinner, grocery shopping, doing laundry, ironing, cleaning the tub, cleaning the counters, cleaning the toilet, mopping, sweeping, changing diapers, doing dishes, childcare tasks, taking the trash out, etc. etc.
Seriously, how often do you move the refrigerator?
How many men do you think really pull up toilets to replace the wax? Or do their own roof repairs?
When do you do all these things? When you're tired after a long day of work? Or on the weekend before your football game comes on?
6
Whomever the Democrats nominate- I hope he or she will make gender and gender identity a primary campaign issue. It really is the only issue worth fighting for.. everything else is just window dressing.. and if you disagree with me.. then that makes YOU a homophobic and uncaring individual.
1
God, I hope this is sarcasm.
3
This is why all would-be live-in couples need a relationship contract, which details who does what by when, and holds each couple accountable to what they agree they will do. (https://www.thelily.com/its-not-enough-to-hope-for-the-best-millennials-are-writing-contracts-for-their-relationships/) Gals, if you can't find a partner who is willing to do what both of you consider to be a fair share, do not move in together and do not get married. You'll be better off as LATs, live apart together partners.
8
My husband vacuums -- his den only. He puts the dishes away, too -- his dishes only. He's not a stupid guy, but I'd say he's self-centered in many instances.
7
@Rider3 He and my husband must be related.
2
38 year old male, husband and pseudo house keeper for my wife.
Fortunately I work from home and honestly like vacuuming , doing laundry, cooking, and other household duties perviously perceived to be a "female" responsibility. Some may say I have obsessive tendencies in the way of order and neatness but I use it as an advantage to have an awesome home space.
She does these chores as well but with her 12 hour shifts in the ER it is not only the right the thing for me to do but an important thing for me to do in order to carry us both forward after us both working long days.
Growing up my parents both pulled their preverbal weight around the home and these qualities have led them to be successful in their marriage some 40 plus years now. We have some friends whom do not subscribe to this philosophy and I find it quite sad really. There should no man above helping his/her spouse in any way albeit vacuuming, cleaning toilets, or simply making dinner.
11
@Nature I wish there were millions more of men like you!
2
Get with it, guys! My husband vacuums, cooks, and cleans — at age 69.
10
My ex (my children's father) was a slob. And it was his attitude that if it bothered me, then I could take care of it. At the time, we were both lawyers working long hours (although he always worked a little longer). When we divorced (the kids were 4 and 1 1/2) our relationship became much better since I wasn't constantly simmering (or taking care of three kids). My current husband does at least as much housework as I do and then some. It's so easy!
6
A barrier to equality in our household is the children’s preferences. They both want mom and we’ve not been able to move that needle in the 8 years our oldest has been alive. I have largely given up on trying to equalize the childcare. My dear and sweet husband does a lot but it is just too much to work it all out with him, only to face a litany of complaints from the boys who want MOM! MOM! MOM!!!! (My husband and I both work full time and outsource chores as much as we can.)
What the kids want is always left out of these discussions and research. Equalizing loads requires figuring this piece out too.
6
I had an assistant once ask to be let off two hours early from work as she 'needed to get home'... I was of course concerned and asked if everything was OK...child sick? emergency? Child care issue?
The answer was "Well, my husband is home with the boys, and he never gets anything done, he just plays and roughhouses with them...I need to get dinner, homework and laundry finished."
I was stunned.
I told her that asking me to give up paid work hours she was hired to do, because her husband didn't feel it was his job to truly parent and perform housework duties, meant she basically had a third child on her hands....and that she and her husband are setting the example to their two sons that men 'don't so housework' for yet another generation of grown men who keep the scales imbalanced.
I truly hope she took it all into consideration, and demanded some changes.
I would NEVER put up with such inequity in my home. I grew up with a stay-at-home Dad, I know men are just as capable of childcare and cleaning as any woman.
8
@Anna Amen! Few people change a comfortable situation. Women must demand more in order to get more.
My 31 year old son does all the vacuuming. No one should believe polls. They cannot really represent the diversity of practice and people out there.
2
How do you tally up couples who chose to hire a housekeeper and nanny to aid with domestic tasks? We are able to focus on our careers, the kids are learning Russian at home, and the house is clean and dog is walked.
If my wife earns more than me, does that mean I am not holding up my end of the household bargain?
2
Would be curious to see a rural/suburban breakdown as well.
3
Polling routinely shows that a large majority of women would rather stay at home and raise their children than work more. But they can't because we have created a society in which both men and women MUST have a job to survive. Elizabeth Warren's book "The Two Income Trap" is about this problem. Gender's are not equal. Men and women want and desire different things out of life. The implication in this article is that traditional gender roles are inherently bad and sexist.
4
@Melinda Sheehee Of course there are men and women who go against the norm, but they are by and large exceptions to the rule. Yes, women are exhausted for all of the reasons you listed. This is exactly what my point was and what is talked about in the book "The Two Income Trap." Both men and women are forced to work because it's extremely difficult to support a family on a single income anymore. Gender roles are not made up, they're a combination of inherited traits and environmental factors. We are not the same biologically. Just one example: ,en are stronger and larger on average than women which helps create the gender role for us being responsible for manual labor and physically exerting tasks like mowing the lawn, raking the leaves, etc.
1
I disagree with @John. Is it really that most men don't want to be with their kids? Or is it more likely that society shames a man with no other ambitions into feel like he's not doing enough to provide for his family? Frankly a man in his 20s to announces on a date that he wants to be a stay at home husband is hard pressed to find a lady who will accept this.
@you said it Sounds like you agree with me. That was my point. I never said men don't want to be with their kids. My point was gender roles exist and they aren't inherently bad. @Melinda Sheehee insulted me for being uneducated and then made up something about men not wanting to spend time with their kids. You're correct. Societal norms and established gender roles exist and men often feel pressure internally and externally to be a breadwinner, just as women feel pressure internally and externally to stay at home with the kids. My original point was these roles exist for a complex range of biological and societal factors and they aren't inherently bad. There must be a division of labor and men and women are different. Women are more nurturing than men so it makes sense that they feel an internal push to stay with the kids and that society externally pressures them to be more involved with the kids than men.
1
This is so middle class. The assumption is that "household labor" is an undesirable burden that must be split between a working couple, like a lawyer and an accountant, and that the injustice is due to the dysfunctional socialization of boys.
Please .....
How about division of labor at work? When I go by a paving crew or a construction site, on a blistering hot, or rainy raw day, about 90% of the workers are men. Jump in ladies.
Another view, as pointed out by other commenters, is that homemaking and nurturing is more inherent in women, and tough, gritty work more a male trait. These are the folks I see in my clinic. For the "woke" professional class, sit down at the kitchen table and put together a chore schedule for goodness sake!
3
@A Doctor And when I leave an office or hospital at 6 pm, 99 percent of the cleaners are women. Jump in, dudes.
5
Maybe we should consider doing the unthinkable: question the hypothesis that only culture drives gender roles.
11
@Jon F
I love how men pretend this is a subversive, novel, or unexplored idea when in actuality "biological differences" have been the basis for discriminatory treatment against women for literally forever but okay, sure, yeah, you're a real revolutionary there, Galileo.
2
If I were a woman, I would so very much want to stay at home, have children and do all those previously women-reserved tasks.
Being a man in a women's world is no picnic.
4
@CL I'm not quite clear on why you can't do this?
Even if they did vacuum, you’d find something else to be upset about. You won’t be happy until us men figure out a way to give birth and nurse children. Or you can just accept that there are actually gender roles (I’m not arguing that vacuuming is one).
7
Monetize women’s labor at home, as Helene Cixous did back in the early ‘80s, then make legal and even cultural decisions with respect to gender roles. Men will soon find that, even in so-called traditional gender roles, women have always contributed equally, often more, often much more, to the functioning of a marriage, traditionally a woman’s workplace, than men have to the functioning of their workplace.
This is not an argument for traditional gender roles—just the opposite. It is to argue that a single standard—monetizing work—while ultimately an unjust standard (used traditionally by men)—reveals much that men have traditionally not wanted to be revealed.
5
Ensuring a decent level of non traditional roles at home, including cleaning, childcare, and laundry will help avoid unnecessary resentments, and help maintain peace of mind in the marriage. You might be surprised to discover your spouse would be happy to take on certain traditional tasks for which you have limited skills such as cooking, as long as you contribute to other areas.
3
My husband of 15 years is open-minded and extremely helpful. He folds clothing beautifully but is not great at sorting what goes in dryer so I will do laundry unless towels or sheets. He vacuums usually but once a month or so I do it as I tend to move more things as I go. Loading/unloading the dishwasher is equally shared. Yard work is divided, I do the planting, mulching and most of the leaf raking as I see this as free cardio and I enjoy gardening. He mows the lawn, trims the shrubs and trees and clears the snow from driveways/sidewalks. I have found that people stare at me as I am outside doing yard work even to the point of stopping to admonish me or my husband for letting me do it! He power washes the house, I do the same to front steps and touch up paint the window trim. I wash all the windows. I painted all the interior walls, doors, trim, he installed plumbing, tile, shelving, electrical. Our relationship regarding housework is very equal where we do more of what we are good at/enjoy. He bakes and makes frozen treats, I cook most of the meals. I write the grocery list and send it to him and he will pick up the items. Twice a month I may make a supermarket run. Even the cat duties are shared, I do early am feeding he does afternoon and we split the night. He does the majority of scooping and all the garbage! Same with the firewood. The one thing I have little to do with is the cars, I drive mine and very seldom fill up the tank which drives him nuts!
1
Mostly women do more housework because they care about it more. Women want their homes to meet a certain standard. Few men have an interest in that standard. It takes nagging to get them to cooperate. If you don't believe me, look at the homes of single men vs single women.
9
Something very key is: do women still insult the masculinity of a man and his earning power during an argument? Do they still seek mates with high incomes? If so, you're part of the problem.
One side cannot entirely have its own way and it still be an equal enterprise. Even drug kingpins who routinely kill their own associates and dabble in other amoral tactics acknowledge the fact that in a deal, there must be equal risk and compromise.
3
"I am totally stunned to hear this news," said no woman anywhere in the country.
"I really don't care. Do you?" thought every single man though he dared not say it aloud.
19
If my house is any indication, old men don't vacuum either.
2
I'm about ready to move to Denmark; they care about gender equity.
1
Here is what is not being said: As a rule, women are hypergamous. They pick mates who are superior than they are in terms of age, status, and income. Generally, they do not pick mates who are equal to them in those domains. They also do not pick men who are equal or better than they are at completing domestic chores, which do not correlate to any of the categories they do care about.
4
Then they shouldn't be allowed to design, manufacture, sell, and get rich off of vacuum cleaners.
1
Why some men would want a women to take care of them like a parent (probably: their mom) is creepy.
Being self-sufficient feels great! Even if you have roommates or are partnered and split up to-do lists, it feels great to feel like you make your life happen and stop only doing one kind of work. Learn some new skills.
3
Ladies, embrace sexual selection and put it to good use: don't date, have sex, have children, or live with men who don't participate equally in running a household. If it's not happening, leave, and make sure he knows why. (And tell all your female friends as well, in case he tries to date any of them). The traits we encourage and reward are those that will get propagated in the next generation - and this goes for psychology and social behavior as much as for biology.
7
Bad Housekeeping.
It’s a magazine or blog I want to start for creative women.
How many great female artists throughout time had to deal w the mundane so that their talented husbands careers could flourish? Let’s say almost every single European artist in History had a woman tending to him. Making sure his offspring are fed and dressed - even the illegitimate ones had their moms while their dads could do whatever. Watch the film about Camille Claudel or Jackson pollock.
It is only recently that this is shifting. I read a great interview w the painter Cecily brown and her now husband told her when they first met that she was the worst domestic he had ever met. So he handles it. Bravo. Cecily. You are a genius. Don’t waste it on the laundry.
Creative women have been burdened w such boring tasks over time. Hey the guys even said the cave paintings were men- many men even proclaimed “ women can’t paint” - some still do. What a laugh! Some of you guys are so threatened . Why?
Now they know the handprints in the caves are by women. That the first artists were most likely women. How does that fit in with these comments that are perpetuating and defending typical western models of what a woman does and doesn’t do?
6
JUST STOP VACUUMING!!
I just can not take all this whining about “who does more.”
This simple solution is to “JUST DO LESS.”
Don’t do the vacuuming. Stop doing everyone’s laundry. Stop signing up to drive everyone around like a chauffeur.
When I saw a grown man tell a 6 year old boy — the boy was wiping the exterior of a dishwasher — the man said, “don’t do it too well or they’ll make you do it all the time,” that told me how men operate.
If it needs to get done, someone will do it. Or it will be dirty and I stopped caring a long time ago.
And no, I don’t even do the mental work of hiring and coordinating a housekeeper.
4
@Roberta Ross
'...the man said, “don’t do it too well or they’ll make you do it all the time,” that told me how men operate.'
This was my EX-husband's M.O. Once he ruined a load of my work clothes by adding bleach. He would do a terrible job of washing dishes (leaving food particles on the utensils) and actually would step over a doggie accident rather than clean it up.
1
Guys just don’t care about cleaning as much as women do.
6
Why is it when men do housework or participate in caring for children, they are said to be “helping”?
4
@Molly Bloom ...and ask for a thank you when completed. It's a frequent discussion in our home that goes nowhere.
Best article by Gemma Hartley: Women Aren't Nags—We're Just Fed Up. Emotional labor is the unpaid job men still don't understand.
1
I wish the author had taken time to note the economic impacts of time out of the workforce. It has huge impacts on lifetime earnings and retirement savings. Women are more likely to take time out of the workforce, and/or to reduce the number of hours they work, and are likely to live longer. This adds up to a real economic whammy that disproportionately effects women.
Also: please, please, please commentators, understand the difference between anecdotes and averages. Just because you know (or are) a man who does a lot of housework does not change the averages.
18
Gender roles are very hard to unlearn. 5 generations ago, my husband’s ancestors lived in a large matriarchal society where property was passed down through the women. And the children received the woman’s last name, not the man’s. The women worked, while the men took care of the children. Why? Because you could prove that children down the female line were related to you, but there was no way to prove the males were related.
This morning, I’m leaving for work while my husband drives our daughter to school. He’ll stay home to work part-time in the afternoon. When I get home from work in the evening, he’ll have dinner ready. He has always loved to cook. Both his mom and dad encouraged him at an early age.
2
I am 65 and single. I have been for 20 years now and I am not interested in having a relationship or getting married. Men my age expect services, hot meals and a second source of funds for their hobbies. They come with laundry. When I say this in response to men, they look bewildered. Women get it. Where did I get this attitude? From my mother who would add in nursemaid because she was widowed in her 70s and never dated. I am not alone in hearing this from my widowed mother. It was something most of my friends heard from their mothers. It doesn't surprise me that younger men want the same lifestyle except they want a higher income from a wife than they did in my youth. More money for their toys. No one gives up privilege without a fight.
8
My ex wife left me with 2 boys in diapers, even though I did most of the kid stuff, pick up and drop off, baths, bed time routines, etc. I put my life on hold and raised those rascals alone. At 60 I vacuum, cook, clean, and I'm first to grab the grandkids. I look back at my first 2 wives and and see that in little ways I failed as a husband and partner even doing most of the house work. Those failings have made me into this guy, prepared to keep #3 until the end - whatever it takes. There are so few of us to demonstrate that we can be a "man's man" and do ALL the housework, it's like a "Me Too" style movement is needed in every home to help the narrow minded step up. But that still wouldn't get everyone to show up in the relationship. These articles may do it though... For those relationship idiots out there - pay attention to the tiniest clues from your partner and develop as a human*.
8
Men might do more housework if the appliances were better. Backpack lithium-ion cordless vacs with great suction, for example, under $200, that are gentle on ladies, too, and don't have chargers that require strongmen to get the batteries in and out, and are easy to reassemble after emptying, duh? Maybe if better appliances had been invented for and by women, men would enjoy using them more, and would not have to "fix" the crappy stuff they invented all the time.
3
I can't believe the sexism in the comments section. I am a working mom. I do more housework because it's easier to just do it than to keep reminding my husband to do it and getting into an argument. My husband can walk past dirty laundry for days and never think that he should do it unless I ask him. I am tired of asking. The birthrate is declining not because women are career women. It's because we have no damn support. Why should I have another kid when I am getting no help and have to pay a shitload of money for childcare. The system is patriarchal and women are getting burnt out and fed up.
92
@AMP
My first husband manipulated me into doing housework, mainly by refusing to do it, shaming me and threatening me. Yes, he was emotionally abusive.
So, I refused to remain his "wife" and he had to go marry a new maid, cook, bookkeeper.
5
@AMP YES! I entirely agree with you. I feel like I already live with and care for a grown child, with that amount of time and energy going into these few things, I couldn't imagine possibly having a child?
3
My progressive millennial husband falls into this category and isn't super interested in cleaning. Over the years, I've made some changes to help balance the workload:
We each have a room with our closets, so if he wants to throw his clothes on the floor at the end of the day and leave his stuff everywhere he can do so and close his room door and I don't have to look at the mess.
On that note, he does his own laundry because I started to prioritize mine and wouldn't always finish his each week.
We used to have an agreement that I cooked dinner and he would wash the dishes. But the dishes just never really got done. So now I just don't cook (which is fine by me as I don't really enjoy it) and I let the "breadwinner" buy us dinner.
We decided to not have kids, mostly because we didn't want them, but also because I knew how much extra work would be given to me alone. No thanks!
15
I was raised to look after myself from the time I left home to first go to college. And I did. These days, happily married for 48 years, father of three, grandfather of three more, I do the grocery shopping, clean the house, fix the evening meal, handle the finances, do my own laundry, etc., etc., etc. I despise men who have to have a woman to look after them. After all, there is nothing hard about any of the chores of daily living. It's merely anecdotal evidence, to be sure, but perhaps my experience suggests that the road to transforming so-called "traditional" gender roles runs through the previous generation. Unfortunately, no randomized and controlled studies in this area are possible.
4
I found the graph to be misleading in terms of what constitutes "home" work. It includes much of traditionally female home work (cleaning, interior design and so forth), and the men are doing less of it. So far so good. But I notice the absence of plumbing, repairing light fixtures, and so forth--traditionally male home work. (There is only one item in this category: car upkeep.) If we assume that women would do less of this work than men (as with car upkeep), we would have to ask, Why does each sex still do less of what has traditionally been the domain of the other?, rather than Why do men do less of home work than women?.
I do experience that women tend to do more of the day-to-day drudgery around homes. I'm not questioning that assertion. I'm questioning the unbalanced portrait painted by the article and wondering why it is content to live within its narrow confines.
4
There’s a simple explanation for the stickiness of the differences that warrants pondering. We humans are animals and nesting & nurturing instincts are powerful. We can remake our traditions & habits, but are stuck with our animalistic instincts, at least for the foreseeable future, so the differences seem likely to persist.
2
@Charles Woods Yes, we are always going to have the nature/nurture debated. But you can't downplay the extremely powerful role that enculturation has on these views.
4
I’m afraid it’s really just a matter of habit and training.
3
@Charles Woods
I fail to see what "animalistic instincts" have to do with vacuuming.
6
In my case, the issue is time physically in the home. I make a good salary but I work remotely (from home) and my husband works long hours outside the home. So I wind up doing a lot of things because I'm here. My husband does his fair share when he's home, though. Another thing I've noticed is he will do "his" chores - which, granted, are a substantial list - but he won't usually just look around and see what needs to be done.
6
Intensive parenting? For the parent who stays at home that is more than a full time job. Nothing wrong with it as long as society accords the parent full respect and support. Not mentioned in the article are the practical details of shopping, cleaning, cooking and caretaking. These skills can be taught and practiced like any other, but are not learned or discussed in school. In decades gone by household management was considered a profession. With the increase in education we must understand the many variables involved that affect home life.
2
"And a sociology study published last month found that when high school seniors were asked about their ideal family arrangement with young children, almost a quarter said it was for the man to work full time and the woman to stay home, a larger share than desired any other arrangement"
This is notable, and says a lot about how boys and girls are enculturated. But high-school seniors don't know anything yet about what life really has in store for them and how they will have to grow and adapt should they find themselves in a committed relationship or marriage. The more intriguing findings in my opinion are people in their 30s.
5
Reminds me of the Rogers & Hammerstein musical South Pacific song “You’ve got to be carefully taught”. Although that song had to do with race identity it might apply to father knows best. Boys watch their dads and do as he does. My father left my mom and me when I was three years old. Today, I do vacuuming, minor house repairs, share the cooking, bed making, and laundry. My son does the same.
8
Whatever else was in this piece, this struck me:
"...when high school seniors were asked about their ideal family arrangement with young children, almost a quarter said it was for the man to work full time and the woman to stay home,..."
This is "holding women back?" I am betting that many more than a quarter of couples with newborns would be perfectly happy with this arrangement, at least for a while. It's an insult to mothers who want to be home with their kids to use this stat as evidence that even young people are contributing to "holding women back.
I feel more sorry for the men, who less often get a chance to stay home (again, at least for a while) after their baby is born.
11
@Rich
I think you are overstating the author's argument a bit. Nevertheless, however desirable it may be, time out of the workforce has long-term implications in terms of lifetime earnings and retirement savings. Since women tend to live longer, this can hit them especially hard.
4
@April I get it. It does not change a thing about what I said. We all have to make choices. There are tradeoffs.
1
@Rich
Thank you.
I'm a mother who quit my career to be home. And while that desire is not universal among women, both statistically and in my anecdotal experience, most women want to cut back on work to have and be with our babies, and we want a man whose earnings facilitate this.
To call this 'holding women back' is patronizing and insulting to the majority of mothers.
1
I was a stay at home father long before that term was coined (1980's). Then people referred to it as "role reversal".
One of the more distressing elements of being a stay a home dad was the resentment and anger women expressed at me. It was often treated as an encroachment on their turf. The criticism was aimed at both housework and childcare.
I must have been doing something right, however. My daughter and son-in-law asked me to stay home with my granddaughter while they worked; beating out two grandmothers for the job.
19
@KF2 Did your male peers resent your arrangement for different reasons?
@KF2 not surprised. Women encountered anger and resentment when they showed up in boardrooms and universities and voting booths
3
@Maple Surple
Only when their partners forced them to come to the play group that I was taking my young daughter too. But I was always causing those problems; I'd bring flowers home when I wasn't even in the "doghouse." LOL
2
I feel like often it's simply that men don't "see" the work that needs to be done around the home most likely because as boys they were never asked to pitch in. I finally trained my live-in SO to see various things that need to be done and now he does them on his own or when asked does them without issue. Also, for those who can afford it a cleaning person coming by once a week or every other week really does eliminate a lot of issues if you both have busy careers.
13
At 80+ years of age I am very fortunate: husband does all the cooking and grocery shopping also dish washing!
9
Too many young men in my 30 year old daughter’s life seem to like their significant other’s impressive resume and income - but their expectations also appear to include her looking great, being nurturing and attentive on cue, maintaining a cheerful and patient countenance, taking care of social planning other than guy-driven events, and rarely having a bad day.
Frankly, many young men I see seem out of the 1950s, except for the she has a good an income part. Showing up seems to be their criterion for being a worthy boyfriend.
In short, old stereotypes of what a “girl” should be and a man deserves persist wildly in her circle, although there are exceptions I hope hold up over time. And this is in a very “progressive” city.
100
@JB "Frankly, many young men I see seem out of the 1950s, except for the she has a good an income part."
Nailed it. The 1950s are back in a big way. Nostalgia is one symptom of a society (and a species) in the midst of a full-scale nervous breakdown.
24
@JB So why does she keep these men in her life? It seems these are the men she wants.
There are literally millions of men who aren't like that, why isn't she interested in them?
2
I'm in my early 30s with two toddlers. My husband and I are equal breadwinners working two corporate jobs, and this article could have been written about me. My husband cares about carrying an equal load, takes feedback very well, and takes on more when I ask him. However, I'm still the parent with the majority of the mental load regarding childcare and house work. I project manage everything household related and delegate to my husband, and the only thing he takes full ownership over is the dog. This is a problem for both of us, and reflects how we were raised - I was raised in traditional gender roles (my mom carried the mental load, like I do), and likewise my husband was brought up not even realizing that this mental load exists, and was taught to focus on work instead. It's clearly a nurture problem for both sexes, and it's challenging for both of us to break out of this pattern.
86
@Emily
Thanks for introducing the term "mental load" here. That's a big part of the burden women generally take on - project management, as you call it. It's the day-to-day, unrelenting nature of that burden that isn't captured in a simple hour-by-hour description of different tasks taken on my men and women. Luckily for me, my husband was able to get this and adjust.
15
@Emily I'm a few years into living with my boyfriend and have noticed a creep towards what you're describing. The best thing we've done to combat it is to divide tasks rather than rotate them. I never have to think about emptying the dishwasher or sweeping the kitchen. He never has to think about cleaning the bathroom or washing the towels and sheets. This way we're not getting hung up about who the last one to do X was. The division of labor is a lot clearer.
11
Thanks for sharing. Hm, whether nurture or nature, I sometimes wonder if men have the drive to want children and care for them on the level that women do, especially that hormonal bond that only a mother has. That’s not to let men off the hook—aspiring mothers need to choose wisely and young men should really ask themselves how important having a child is to them. But even with the best partner, I wonder if child rearing on a daily basis is ever as important to men as “leaving a legacy” or becoming somewhat of a hero figure to their children, thus leaving daily rearing an afterthought. I guess I’m asking—why is it that women seek to crave children and men crave mostly the fun part—sex? Maybe that’s the wrong question. But it even in 2020 it feels like the case for most opposite-sex couples and true in my experience. I’m in a serious relationship but her clock is ticking. Whose responsibility should it be then, to honor the needs of having and raising children when it’s something I’d like but something she’d LOVE.
2
I find this amusing. I am 55 yrs old. My father is 96. Until 10 yrs ago, I watched (and learned) him do all of the housework with the exception of cook. He even did the grocery shopping. So, as an adult I never thought twice about doing the housework, plus my wife doesnt clean as well as I do, but she is a gourmet cook! Anyway, as with everything, it comes from parenting. You know what you see as a child.
19
As a 71-yr-old (white, now-retired) male, married 26 years, with triplets, my wife and I have done a fairly good job at home, and during our careers. It's all negotiation, communication, sacrifice, and balanced times of fairness and unfairness.
My biggest task over time: to listen, really listen, to my wife's concerns, speaking up when I also thought something needing addressing. I shop and cook, took the kids to church while she preached, and more -- she pays bills, and yes, vacuums (I have asthma, allergies), and a great deal more.
I do believe women continue to get the very short end of the deal at home, as well as at work. Cultural change is glacial, and the male paradigm still dominates. But awareness grows -- our two sons and one daughter have radically different values and practices than I grew up with, and are and will be part of an evolving standard at home and at work.
Equity and equality don't mean sameness, and they don't come easily or fairly or rationally. They come with struggle, illogic, and battles. I support every woman's fight to choose, to establish fairness, and carve out her/their space in the home and workplace. No one is fated to suffer needlessly -- it just takes a lot of time, effort, and combat against the dominant powers-that-be to make things better and 'righter.'
31
@SGK Well said--thanks for speaking to what so many people fail to reckon with: that to really commit to a partnership and family takes work, lots of hard work. One must be willing to put in the time.
3
Obviously, so much depends on how the questions are asked. Most men have their "honey do" lists for their free time fixing, changing, repairing and performing as handyman which seems not noted as an "option" in the questions asked.
Secondly, the survey needs to also account for relative importance each partner feels toward the work that needs to be done. Some men and some women are less likely to see the need for housework. In stereotype, one would expect men to be less concerned with having a clean house, planning activities or cooking rather than eating out.
Thirdly, there is no longer a clean divide between work and home. While women are doing "more of the household chores", statistics show that men are working longer hours. It is artificial to say that "men aren't doing their share" when they are working longer hours and often making more money.
Fourth, an 18 year old likely to prefer the household arrangement in which they grew up, so the slow change over time and in expectations is to be expected.
Finally, in what life context are we speaking? Young children are different from older children; girls different from boys. Women may be more involved with younger children and men more involved with their older children.
10
@OneView But this idea that men are working longer hours, as if women too don't have jobs. But most women do have jobs and have the same requirements--unless they had to give them up because their partners were not stepping up so it was assume they would.
that's the point. It is assumed women must take up the discrepancy, even if it harms their career. Men don't. As for "honey do lists". There are more domestic tasks than everyday cleaning and men see oblivious. I don't complain about my husband and am not in an unfair situation but on the other hand, he's not once thought, oh the fridge needs to be cleaned, I'll do it. Or the pantry needs to be done because of the pantry moths. Or any of these tasks.
Men pat themselves on the back when they do one chore periodically and assume women are doing theirs because they prefer it rather than it being necessary.
4
@OneView
It's a ridiculous notion that level of tidiness you prefer is a sex-linked trait. Men are equally likely as women to be tidy or slobs. They just have higher standards when someone else is doing the work.
1
The key to whether a household arrangement works is choice. The feminist movement was born out of a feeling of oppression, a feeling of lack of choice. The prevailing attitude at the time was that a woman *had* to stay home, no matter what. If a woman wanted to pursue a career and if her husband stuck to that view, *ignoring* her desires, then that isn't a very healthy relationship. It doesn't show a willingness to sacrifice for the other (the nature of love) or compromise. I think this is the original wrong that created the push for a change in thinking.
But, again, the issue is choice and deciding what is best for your family. My wife and I have largely assumed traditional roles, but it was through discussion, choice, and agreement. It was not based on views of "how things should be done". My wife does the majority of the cooking...because she loves to cook! And, unsurprisingly, she is also much better at it. This does not bother us, we eat well, and are happy. I still cook sometimes and I don't view it as "beneath me" or "something only a woman should do". We all share the household chores as a family. I vacuum. :)
My wife also wanted to stay home with our kids when they were young. It was a choice and something we both agreed on, because it worked for our family. You don't get that time back. It is worth far more than money. Our kids are now in middle school. She told me recently that it was the best decision she ever made and her fondest memories.
8
As a full time homemaker taking care of our family while my very smart wife works at a career she loves, I have to say these men are missing out. This has been the most fulfilling stage of my life ever, and becoming adept at household chores is very rewarding.
I do notice that some chores are “cooler” and so are more socially acceptable for men to do: car upkeep, yardwork and cooking. But laundry, vacuuming and cleaning bathrooms are unglamorous and repetitive - so men “don’t notice them” for as long as they possibly can. Those chores seem to be the ones left to women in most households.
39
I must be a walking enigma. As a young man who grew up with brothers, but no sisters, I never became familiar with the concept of girls doing more chores than boys. Before reading this article, that idea was completely foreign to me. I also hate working. Dating a career minded woman who makes more than me is a sort of a pipe dream of mine. I would gladly do the chores if it meant that I didn't have to wake up at 5 AM to go to work, even if I had to get up at 5 AM to start them. I've also been living alone for the last three years, and I've become quite independent. I cook, clean, shop, decorate, water the plants, do the laundry, all without a significant other and I still find time to go to the gym and play my guitar. I don't have children, so I can't relate there, but I don't imagine I would want to do any less around the house if I did. These tasks have become quite habitual. I'm not trying to brag, just pointing out that stereotypes don't always apply.
15
@Stephen
People have a hard time with statistics. The fact that men who do housework exist does not change the fact that *on average* men do less housework.
3
@April
All I'm saying is that forming an opinion about all men being messy is out of scope. Statistics are informative, but they're by no means definitive.
1
My wife and I are in our mid-thirties and have been married for 10 years. When it comes to household chores, we split them pretty evenly. We take turns cleaning the house on the weekends; one of us cleans, while the other gets our daughter out of the house so she's not in the way. Whoever makes up the grocery list that week does the cooking. When it comes to dishes, I usually wash while she dries (the hot dish water aggravates her eczema). Laundry is more of a mixed bag, since she tends to forget that there's laundry in the washer when she does it.
The one area where we do stick to typical gender roles, though, is yard work.
6
@Nick hilarious!
who handles:
-purchasing your daughter's clothing and shoes
- buying your daughter bday presents
- planning and organizing bday parties
- family vacations, including hotel reservations, buying and packing swimsuit for your daughter
- signing your daughter up for activities
- buying equipment/clothing for activities
- communications with school
-RSVP for bday parties (not your daughters) plus a gift
- organizing holiday events (e.g., when to get a christmas tree)
- buying paper goods for your house (tissue, TP, paper towels, cleaning products)
would you still say that the only typical gender role is yard work?
4
Now that I have the perspective of a second marriage, it occurs to me that one of the most important factors is the level of cleanliness or neatness that each partner views as ideal. Also important is the energy level of each partner. It doesn't matter what chore a person is doing (indoor or outdoor) — if their partner is napping or watching TV while they are working, forget any chance of a happy relationship.
14
I am a West Point grad and a feminist. I support whatever arrangement works best for the “family” (not always a married man and woman.)
As a working mom of four kids we also need to acknowledge biology here. Only women get pregnant. It hijacks her brain and body and and suddenly, nothing matters more than being with this little person. Men are hormonal affected too (especially if they live with the mother) but biology has a different role for the male. I’m not a man but men I know report feeling a strong need to provide and protect. These are very primal drives and exist across cultures.
People are complex and on a continuum...but let’s acknowledge that biology is at least partially responsible for these mores.
41
@Kate Jackson Hormones really don't do as much as conventional wisdom/culture say they do. Just google the science on this.
6
@Kate Jackson
Thanks. I have often discussed these issues with my wife. She also noticed a big change in her priorities. And I guess I have been "biologically hijacked" too.
3
@Kate Jackson
Hormones have NOTHING to do with dusting, mopping, grocery shopping, cleaning a toilet or washing the windows.
12
I'm in my early twenties and just got married last October. My husband and I both work full time, he works 4 10 hours shifts in a warehouse (SunMonTuesFri) and I work ~8:00-4:30 in the office M-F. We both expect each other to tidy up on our respective days off and it works out pretty well. On Sunday I do a thorough clean and usually on Thursdays is when he will do the cleaning (laundry, clean the kitchen, tidy up living/dining room/bathroom etc). Sometimes I can get a little frustrated for half a second when I come home Wednesday and things are messy, but I know he will do it Thursday so I chill out. And of course I come home Thursday and the house is clean. We both value our time off so if he wants to spend the whole day doing nothing and spend the next day cleaning I won't stop him. I do cook 99% of the time but he does the dishes. And he also does the yard work so I feel like it evens out.
It all comes down to respect I think. We both own the house, we both live there, we are not each others guests. We both work full time and we both want to keep a nice and clean house, so we both agree to help maintain that.
I also think that it helps that he lived on his own for 4 years before we got married, and his mom was never a good caretaker so he is used to doing his own cleaning/laundry/cooking. I know some men who went straight into marriage after living at home and always having mommy do everything for him. Then he expects his wife to be "mom." Not a healthy dynamic.
17
My mother was born in the 40s and married to men who viewed their only responsibilities as bringing home a paycheck (and with the first husband, not even that). Thus, when I married a man who washes dishes, pays bills, does some of the laundry, and is an involved parent (giving baths, playing with our child), she regularly talks about how lucky I am. So although my husband doesn’t clear the table, clean counters, or put food from the meal away, or do any of the other interior household management tasks listed in the chart, because there has been significant progress from the previous generation, I am considered fortunate.
Our son, however, is being raised to be able to take care of household tasks on a regular basis (including being able to cook). He will be fully self-sufficient and an equal partner whenever he is living on his own and/or married.
19
so, if only women would raise their sons like you do, men would do their fair share? that's a little too... so you just wanted us to know we are not a good or happy as you and your son's future partner? I don't get it.
@Susan Wow, took @A-L's comment a bit personally? I agree with A-L, but would add that ALL children should be taught the basics of being a responsible adult who can take care of themselves, alone (household, financial, parenting, career tasks), enabling them ALL to be better partners & parents later. And ALL children should be encouraged to pursue what interests them (legal of course) regardless of gender.
Why? Well, no one is guaranteed a life-long partner to share any tasks of life, so each person should be able to function alone. And for the 2nd point, Why Not?
1
I conduct research in this area as well. I do not dispute the results reported here or most of their implications. I do have some things to add.
While it is true that women do about an hour more per day in household work and child care, it is also true that, on average, men in dual-career couples work about 6 hours more per week and, on average, have longer commutes and more business travel. Add these together, and you have both partners working equally hard for the household, just in different ways.
Ultimately, it would be better if we could decouple gender from patterns of paid and unpaid work for the family, and that both men and women were freer to pursue what they are more interested in pursuing.
20
A big part of the problem is the stigma against stay-at-home husbands and dads. So many women are still drawn to partners who will be "providers" who earn more and have better professional credentials. I can't count the number of times one of my students has broken up with someone she thinks won't bring home the bacon. This is how patriarchy persists. If women want equality, they have to stop looking up the ladder for partners.
21
Why should women stop if this is what we want?
Like the majority of women, I wanted to be a mother. Like the majority of mothers, I wanted to be able to be the primary caretaker of my children. Like most women, I'm sexually attracted to tall, masculine men. Therefore, I made choices about both career and marriage to facilitate these wants.
I CHOSE a more flexible, lower paying career. I CHOSE to stay home for a few years. I CHOSE a tall man who makes more money. I CHOSE to care for my house.
When are we going to respect that it's not 'patriarchy' but women's choices?
Which leads to an uncomfortable question: if we need to override actual women's wants and choices to get gender "equity" , should we?
Has it occured to the elites in Ivory towers of NYC, the media, and academia that a majority of women - fairly or not - fear and reject feminism and the feminist label for this very reason?
6
Women should look for younger, very handsome boy toys that make them happy.
7
@MP Spot on.
3
Cleaning was our biggest marriage issue at first - we both wanted it to be 50/50 but we had different standards for cleanliness. I used to tell him just to clean when things are dirty but finally learned that asking him to walk around trying to determine if the house was dirty by my standards was really difficult for him. Once we switched to a set schedule and he could just remember "it's Sunday/Monday/Tuesday, so I will do the dishes" we went to 50/50 overnight.
I also had to let things go - the house might not be clean when I'm ready for it to be, but it's no longer the end of the world to me because it never comes down to cleaning up after him, I just have to wait until it's chore time. I can do that.
We don't have any urchins but I'd imagine appropriate communication and some compromise would still work in that situation as well.
I'm sick of reading about how things still aren't fair and equitable. Instead of continuing to talk about that let's talk to each other and figure out the small scale changes that make a single relationship better. That, we can do. The statistics will follow.
12
@Lemony Cricket I agree. Part of the problem in my experience is that women have higher standards in many cases than men. One example, when I stayed home with young my daughters (which I did most of the time) they were very nicely dressed in tee shirts, shorts/sweat pants, etc. Their hair was brushed, but not in a perfect ponytail. Sometimes their socks were in contrasting colors which they picked out.For my wife this was not enough. Cute and elaborate outfits were needed, often more feminine. There was absolutely no harm to the kids by my casual standards. I could dress them up nicely for special events, but my wife usually made it clear that this was her role. Long story short, the daughters grew up just fine and my wife and I didn't stress over this difference. I never did master the really tight ponytail or French braid, but possibly a granddaughter or two will teach me.
10
@Lemony Cricket I completely agree. I was about to post a comment similar to yours. I have definitely much different expectations for cleanliness from my partner, but because it matters to her I am willing to try (even though I, like your husband, am incapable of noticing things as being "dirty" to the same degree as my partner). Once we figured out the schedule for things and could work it into a routine, I was able to contribute in a way that met her expectations. Expecting your partner to just automatically see what you see is setting up a relationship for failure. Communication, as you said, is the key to working out these types of situations.
@wts Ugh, my kids are going to dress themselves, how ever sloppy that looks. I do think part of the problem is that our culture encourages women to make more work for themselves. I am guessing your wife had some concerns about what others would think of her based on how your daughters dressed. I don't think men are made to have the same concerns.
2
Women mate based on success, education, income and status. The man's income and status needs to be higher than the woman's, or the woman isn't interested. This is even more true, the more successful the woman is.
That's one of the main reasons why men try to achieve more status and income. If women would reward housework with mating, I am pretty sure evolution would do the rest. But they don't.
Apart from that, an interesting detail you left out: more young women than men expect from men to work full-time, instead of childrearing.
So women punish men without status, and expect from them to work. But somehow this is again the fault of men that they behave like women want them to.
8
@_Flin_ This is outdated and demonstrably false thinking. I feel sorry for people who are incapable of having a partner who earns more than them. And even sorrier for those who haven't met people who can challenge this expectation.
2
@_Flin_ Ah yes, the tired argument that hetero women only care about a man's money. Coupled here with the insulting assumption that a woman's goal is to "mate," as if women are wildlife- reducing her relationship bonds with her partner to no more than a sexual transaction. As if women lack higher cognitive and emotional needs and desires.
It goes without saying for most that your assumptions are demonstrably wrong. I know many women, myself included, for whom this isn't the case in their relationships. But of course, you must know that already. I encourage you to stop amplifying damaging stereotypes as if they are a universal truth- it is a big factor in why we have these pervasive cultural inequities.
1
This column has inspired me to look at my family’s lifestyle with fresh eyes. Thank you.
2
From the moment my son was born, he saw his father (me) do all sorts of household chores: vacuuming, dusting, laundry, cleaning bathrooms, kitchen-duty (pots, pans, oven and stove), shower stalls, toilets, yard work (lawns, leaves, snow), garbage, recycling, dog walks (dog bathing) and food shopping. My only limitation is cooking (his Mom handles that).
Today he is eighteen years old, and occasionally he will "swifer" the first floor, but that's it. Why doesn't he do more? It has nothing to do with gender. He just knows his father will do it.
7
My experience in a half-century of marriage is that “men do vacuum”; they also do the wash, make the beds and do the dishes. The willingness is there, but...and this is a big “but”...the frequency is far less because a male’s sense of how often housework needs to be done is far different. The males’ idea of when a room looks messy rather than comfortable is different. What a male sees as a pile of laundry vs a mountain of smelly, dirty clothes is different. Sheets and bedding would be washed as measured by number of person-nights rather than “every Tuesday” (no matter how many week-nights were spent on travel.) If males and females had equal levels of tolerance, then the frequency in which they took on housework tasks would be closer to the same. Oh, and the house would be a total mess...in some individuals’ eyes. I am eternally grateful that my wife has always transformed our houses into homes.
6
What should also be stressed is that hands down the household work in the categories of nearly always done more by women is the stuff that has to be done, especially daily. e.g. Cook dinner, feed the children, remember when the kids appointments are and take them, know when the house is out of toilet paper and get more before.. eek. In contrast, men tend to be more inclined to practice the occasional and non-essential. I.e. get it done if and when u can, eg, mow a lawn. Think comparatively about the consequences of if the task is not done or done badly to evaluate this argument.
5
This is all very interesting but not at all pertinent for my life as a lesbian with a long-term, female partner. I never see any articles that look at the division of household responsibilities among same-sex couples along, hypothetically, lines of age, race, income, etc. These articles say the same things over and over again, to the point where I think no one is surprised by the results any more. Could we shake it up a bit?
8
@C It's not the article that is at fault but rather the Gallup survey which looked only at opposite gender households. Perhaps Gallup is even now conducting a survey among same gender households.
2
Robot vacuums, instant pots and take out, all are the “new staff”.
This would be more interesting if it were possible to compare the situations in other countries--I mean countries with similar social and economic structures to those under discussion in the U.S. What does the household gender gap look like (or does it even exist) in, e.g., Canada or Germany or Denmark or Australia?
4
The idea that there should be some sort of numeric equivalence between what all men and all women choose to do seems to ignore the fact that work is far from the most fulfilling part of life for many people.
It also discounts the fact that individuals choose what works for their family at a particular time. During the brief years when children are young, many parents choose to focus and enjoy them, with one parent remaining the primary wage earner. This may have an impact on family income for a time, but it is an opportunity for relationship-focused time that can never be reclaimed if lost. Money is simply not the most important measure of a life’s value.
An at-home spouse can pursue entrepreneurship or other interests, but it seems only logical for the home-based person to assume more of the home-based chores. In our household, each person cares for his/her own bathroom; the people who don’t mind cooking, cook; the person who doesn’t mind shopping, shops; whoever notices a spill, deals with it; and for seasonal or occasional tasks, the person who notices or cares most takes care of the task in question, requesting and receiving help if needed. If guests are expected, I’m the one who cares most about how it looks, so I make a list and everyone pitches in. It’s cooperative because we all live here and contribute to messes, and because there’s no point in ruining relationships over something as trivial as who spends five minutes running a vacuum.
4
@JP Campbell In my household, each person does what they don't mind doing and what everyone minds doing falls to the wife.
My armchair theory is that despite our evolving attitudes, men simply don't fear or receive as many negative consequences, when they slack off around the house. Coupled or not, I'd be interested in examining the theory that men just care less, and get away with it.
16
@Patrick
The one who cares the least has the power.
1
@Patrick The world still sees the home as the woman's responsibility, therefore she is judged when things are not up to standards. My husband and I realized that we are equally ambivalent about housework, but we understand the reality that I am going to bear the brunt of the judgement that comes from not having a prefect home. We realized this is a "them" problem, not an "us" problem, and solved it by no longer entertaining at home.
It blows my mind when I hear fathers say they are babysitting their own children.
It’s such a weird disconnect from responsibility.
For the record— my wife and I are self employed, but by all means, she is the boss.
We split everything as needed. There are no such things as gender roles in our home.
10
When I attended a reunion of my old Cambridge college - one of only 3 Cambridge colleges admitting women at the time I attended it - I learned that over half the (female) graduates were single or divorced. I asked one of the divorced ones why she thought that was so.
'All through school', she said, 'we were taught that girls were just as good as boys. But the boys went home every day and watched their mothers waiting on their fathers, hand, foot and finger.' Her husband thought housework was only for women, even though both spouses had outside jobs. In the end, she decided she'd be less exhausted without him.
Most of the mothers of my vintage -including the lawyers - have raised their kids 1950s- style. Unless things change radically on the domestic front, nothing will really change for women.
24
My family's history shows that this is entirely malleable and based on what vacuums look like. When the vacuum cleaner was a giant, heavy monstrosity, my father considered it a manly duty to wield it. Now that vacuum cleaners are light, airy wands, in pastel colors, what manly man wants to wield one? How is that cool? The principle is exactly the same as the way manufacturers code toys pink/white or blue/red for girls and boys. As the joke goes, men BBQ because they'll cook if there's danger involved. If household tools are designed and marketed for manly men or even nerdy men - as tools, not swiffers, as involving ladders and toolbelts or Jedi swords - my bet is that men will compete with their wives and girlfriends to wield them.
7
@Sara If there were loud, gas-powered vacuums that could be pimped out with extra horsepower, flame graphics, and higher speed then we men would gladly embrace the chore. And brag to other men about the superiority of our, ahem, "tools."
And then there's are the new studies telling us that estrogen produces more oxytocin in the brain than testosterone, which means quicker and more intense willingness to serve the ones you love, so sacrifice your own time, sleep, energy to take care of your family. I'm a strongly feminist woman, but I can barely bear to leave a child, or even a baby animal. I have a very intensive career and have had to learn to do this, but when a child is coughing or crying or needs to talk in the middle of the night, I can't possibly sleep through it. I have to get up and give them as much time as they need. Maybe I have too much oxytocin, but it's in my genes and my gender. I agree that we need to always working on making things more equitable, and yet I would never want to be the male who can simply ignore the needs of others in order to get the sleep he needs. It's just not me.
14
If a couple has children, then the disparate patterns start right after the first birth.
Often, a birth mother's own mother shows up straightaway to help with the new baby and the household work. This leaves the other parent feeling either cast aside or entitled to exempt him or herself.
Add in breastfeeding for six months, and the die is cast. The roles and responsibilities get set in stone, and they never recover.
13
@Cousy Yes, I remember my wife stressing after our first baby because I did childcare differently from her. Post-partum issues were probably at play here. Not worse, just differently. Over time she realized that my diapers were just as secure as hers, my bottles at the right temperature, etc. and we enjoyed sharing the responsibility. Later we had the same difference about everyday outfits for the daughters. The girls and I were happy with shorts or sweatpants, tee shirts and brushed hair while my wife wanted them in cuter clothes with braids and ponytails (which I was terrible at creating). I was a stay-at-home caregiver and am proud to say that my girls knew the important stuff early in life: 60s Corvettes vs. bathtub Porsches. They could identify helicopters vs. jets vs. biplanes. The Stones and the Allman Brothers. Louis Armstrong and Ella compared to Louis Prima and Keeley Smith.
4
I’m a part time stay at home father and in my experience it seems that my wife tries incredibly hard to balance it all. It’s not just men that need to adopt roles that were traditionally women’s, but women letting them go to some extent as well. That might mean they are performed differently, maybe sometimes worse, sometimes at different times, and even sometimes better.
8
"The share who preferred having a family with a stay-at-home mother was 23 percent in 2014, down from 44 percent in 1976, and the share who said that arrangement was unacceptable increased."
Unacceptable to have a stay at home mother?
I'm going to ponder that for a while. Just who has decided this? Or that they were bequeathed with the power to judge anyone else's family arrangements--acceptable or otherwise.
3
@Talbot I believe the survey asks whether a given arrangement is acceptable or unacceptable *to the respondent.* Thus, a person may say it is unacceptable to be a stay-at-home mother (or be hypothetically married to one), even if he/she supports others who wish to do so.
10
This is a very complicated subject, but an important one. Where to begin:
First, if women are being penalized because of their gender and forced to do unequal amounts of housework, then that is clearly a bad thing. But it does not follow that if it is the case that they are doing unequal amounts of housework, that they are being somehow being forced to. Maybe there are some marriages these days where one spouse can force the other to do something he/she does not want to do, but this doesn't seem all that likely. If women's attitudes are contributing to this inequality, what are men supposed to do about that? This article does not really address that point.
Individual anecdotes also are not very helpful in this discussion. There are always exceptions to any rule. The question is whether the statistics really support the notion that there is gender inequality here. Unfortunately, this article does not really elicudate. Maybe the underlying studies would tell us something, but if so, this article leaves out a lot.
Women are not men. Men are not women. It seems to me they gravitate to certain kinds of chores. Is that a bad thing? And that can actually change over time. Attitudes of high school seniors might be interesting, but I'm not convinced they actually have anything to do with reality at age 34.
To me this article is a great example of confirmation bias. When I see good statistics I will start paying attention.
4
@taarheel
"Maybe there are some marriages these days where one spouse can force the other to do something he/she does not want to do, but this doesn't seem all that likely."
It's not like this: Man tells woman, scrub the toilet or else I'll cut off your allowance.
It's more like this: Man refuses to scrub toilet more than every 2 weeks or until after it's foul, claiming that he "just doesn't mind" and that woman has "higher standards," woman is a sanitary creature and wants a clean toilet, so she does it because her options are 1) live in filth; 2) repeatedly ask husband to do it and get frustrated when he won't, and then have conflict in her relationship; or 3) do it herself. So which seems like the path of least resistance?
"When I see good statistics I will start paying attention."
Thankfully, they're out there. You appear to be literate and have internet access, so why don't you go do some research instead of waiting for people to spoon feed you?
"It seems to me they gravitate to certain kinds of chores."
Yeah, women are genetically coded to enjoy doing dishes and scrubbing toilets. Eyeroll.
"Is that a bad thing?"
It depends on *why* they "gravitate" towards these chores/roles, now doesn't it?
2
Men do, as my son (a veteran) proves men do "home chores" if they were taught as a child that doing those things is part of the responsibilities of being an adult.
20
@Cheley Why does it matter to say that he's a veteran?
@Leo only because of the perceptions--men veterans are "real men" and "real men" do not do hoursework.
@Cheley Thanks for clarifying. You bring up a great point about perceptions!
Arlie Russell's "The Second Shift," published in 1989, has barely budged in relevance -- except now most men demand their wives be second earners while still doing 90% of the housework and "support tasks" as well. (Spare me "car maintenance," these guys aren't trained mechanics so it means driving it to the dealer, and "yard work" is dribbling an expensive tractor lawnmower around the yard with a beer and then expecting applause.) If anything, women are in an even riskier position, as males tend to protest that"our money is our money" until the first sign of dissension magically transfers "our money" into "MY money."
A comment on the Bezos divorce in an earlier NYT article illustrates this well: "What did SHE do to get all that money from HIM?" (Well, she moved the family to Seattle and worked with him closely to get Amazon started, while taking primary care of their children and writing well-received novels.)
But, you see, when it comes down to it, it's always men's "work" and men's money in the end, no matter what women earn or work or sacrifice for it. Money is what talks and nothing else and all of it rightfully belongs to them. That hasn't changed a bit.
97
@Hypatia We don't combine our money and thus never fight about money.
2
@Hypatia Exactly right in my own experience.
1
This completely ignore the kind of work that people *want* to do.
Women are more likely to want to spend time nurturing children or keeping the house neat. Men are more likely to want to fix the car or computer, mow the lawn, and spend extra time at work. And men tend to work in spurts of demanding activity, while women are more likely to work longer at less intensive tasks.
All of this is entirely consistent with hunter-gatherer behavior. There are exceptions -- my stepmother hates domestic tasks like cooking, and is never happier than when she's under the sink with a pipe wrench -- but that is not the general rule.
This is what we evolved to do, and while both partners should pull equal weight, they will likely be happier if they follow their instinctive patterns in doing so.
5
I don’t want to do laundry or the dishes - evolution has not made me feel an inexorable pull towards the toilet brush and the vacuum. And what, my husband takes care of the car because it needs to be in tip top shape for chasing antelopes down on the savannah? My husband stays home with our son while I work and we try to divide other tasks equally, to some success. It’s a constant dance but we do alright and I’m lucky to be with an equally supportive man. There’s no “want” involved in how we choose our chores, I can assure you.
92
As a married woman and a mother, yes, I agree.
Are there exceptions? Sure. I know a few. If an egalitarian house works for you, go for it!
But most women I know admit that they like being home with their babies (or wish they could be) and like caring for their homes. Most women once they've out grown all that "theory" from college just want their husband to make good money so they can focus on their babies and their nest.
It's not PC, but maybe we need to consider that men are the way they are because women want them to be like that, and women reward them for gendered behavior.
11
@Josh Hill
It’s 2020 and planet Earth. And please look up the word “instinct”. I’m in medicine and I’ve yet to read a scientific article stating “instinct” determines who cleans a bathroom. Ugh. Talk about absurd justifications.
34
Both of us as well as our respective families must be unicorns. Both of our sets of parents had traditional division of labor but all of us (and our children) all went on to college of some sort and all of the subsequent generations on both sides including us are dual career couples and sharing a vast majority of duties equally. 38 years of swapping making dinners every other night and doing the dishes from dinner. Equal family activity planning, laundry, etc. My wife has the eye for decorating and supervises all the landscaping and gardening. For me, I have the interest and skills in investing, saving, carpentry and home upkeep but for either of us, it has been a joint decision for decades and our children, nephews nieces, etc, are doing the same. When both of you are working, you have to do it if you are really a couple and now retired, it is our routine.
6
As a childless male millennial, I have no problem doing more housework than my partner, which I do. We moved six months ago and she still doesn't really know how to use the washer and dryer. But she works 12 hour shifts so I overlook it, despite my being the chief breadwinner, as I have shorter hours and less physical work. And I'd try to make the best of it, but yeah, it would hurt my pride and masculinity if she made more than me.
That said, it's quite obvious children benefit from having their mother at home, especially in the tender years. I have no problem with professional women, but a sad side effect has been the declining birthrate, and we are going to have to do a whole lot more to get that back up, whether it's universal child care, parental leave, whatever.
I absolutely see men and women as equal partners, but our roles are also naturally distinct. When something goes "bump" in the night, I'm the one who has to grab the bat or the gat and go deal with it. When an unbalanced homeless guy lurches by, society expects ME to interpose myself. With children, both parents should do their bit, but the woman's role is inherently different than the man's. Men and women are NOT the same - we're each better suited to certain tasks. Men have a natural drive to provide and protect, women have a natural drive to nurture. That's not always true, but 9 times out of 10, throughout history, those are the roles we occupy.
6
@B Samuels
When something goes bump in the night, I am the one who
responds. The house could burn down around us without waking my partner. He would sleep through the end of the world!
2
Where do you live where things are going “bump” in the night and you’re confronting homeless people all the time?
My husband believes in equality. But, the cleanliness that he requires is very different than mine. Why should he clean when it doesn't matter to him? His tolerance of mess is much higher than mine. So, arguments about keeping the place clean devolved into who cares more. We were fortunate enough to have enough money to pay a cleaner which helped keep our marriage intact.
55
@SK Maybe he should clean because he likes to live with you? Because successful relationships are about making the other person happy at least some of the time and not devolving to the lowest common denominator?
31
@SK
Same here. My husband was the biggest cheerleader of my former career and always did anything I asked to at home.
But in the end it's just me that cares more.
And I honestly like cleaning my own house.
7
As a woman who lives with 5 men and boys (husband and sons) I can attest to the fact that domestic work does not come natural to them. They don’t seem to notice or mind messes that aggravate me. But in my experience males are eager to please and highly motivated by food, which makes them easy to train. It does require asking for what you want and giving specific instructions.
100
I'm sure that this situation is common. But there are exceptions. My son is the fastidious one in his (heterosexual) household. But he doesn't complain about "gender inequality".
Neither my wife nor I can figure how he got to be such a neat-freak, it's just the way he rolls. Vive la difference!
7
Tongue in cheek, but there’s some truth to it!
1
Words vs Actions. Sure it’s just peachy to give lip service to gender equality, but, those are just words. When couples return home from work, who does the housework? That’s action, deeds, follow-through. And, we discover that the actions of the genders haven’t really changed despite all the lip-flapping. Shocking! I’m not assigning blame here, but, if only 20% of men do the dishes...well, Houston, we have a disconnect.
15
I will be 80 in May and am the care taker for my wife which means a new found experience with household chores. I have learned that cleaning a house or apartment is hard work, bending and moving many muscles. I have had to learn new things—— who knew about Swiffer, for example. Also, I am ashamed how much I took for granted during our married life. She never complained so I did not pay attention.
I write this not to praise or feel sorry for myself, but to say, to men in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, help with the housework now that you and your loved one can share even the most mundane things. Learn to fold a fit sheet. It’s a challenge which I am still working on.
283
@Thomas Gilhooley Good for you Thomas. My husband taught me how to fold a fitted sheet and every now and again goes through the linen closet fixing my attempts.
4
@Thomas Gilhooley
What on earth is the point of folding a fitted sheet? They do not naturally fold easily or neatly, and when you put them on the bed they look fine. Then you cover them with sheets and blankets and no one ever sees them. Neatly folding a fitted sheet sound a little neurotic.
That being said, everyone should clean and cook at home.
3
I grew up in the 1970's and was utterly transformed by the Women's Movement. It is my greatest disappointment that nothing has really changed in terms of gender roles. I thought my husband and I would be equal partners, and he agreed to strive for that back then. Let's just say it didn't happen. I weep for my daughters, and for myself.
43
I agree it's disheartening, but I don't think this was caused by men. I think it was young women who revolted against the trends of no-makeup, no bra, and keeping your own name. I was shocked by this turn of events when it happened. It seemed to me there was a collective reaction to the trend towards "liberation". I couldn't really figure it out. I don't think it was some vast masculine conspiracy. The only explanation I could find was that they just didn't really want to be liberated when they found out what it meant. If you want to be equal you have to be willing to compete on a level playing field. If you always expect it to be tilted in your direction because you're "special" then that won't work in the long run. The world is not a nice place -- it's dog-eat-dog -- and that is never going to change. Unless you are willing to go toe-to-toe with the other guy/gal, you will end up taking a subordinate position.
1
If some man was doing my laundry, cooking, shopping, ordering, and cleaning, I would be so delighted I think I would face any change kicking and screaming too.
74
@MG good point!
1
Why is this always about straight people? Gay men do housework all the time, including vacuuming. I assume many single straight guys do vacuuming also. In a gay household, we tend to go with our strengths. We divide chores on who is better at something, not being worried about who does more or less. From all these articles on gender equality, it would seem that men and women should not cohabitate. And by the way most straight women I know seem to be attracted to the guy who does manly stuff. Maybe the issue is with women. Their fantasies trap them into doing women’s work because a man vacuuming doesn’t turn them on.
6
@David Gifford
Bingo!
We have gender roles because women enforce them.
When women all start marrying and sleeping with short, gentle, housekeeping men who make less money then you'll see "equity".
I'm not holding my breath.
I believed all this gender equity stuff. Then I married a six foot two alpha man, quit my job to be closer to my babies, and encouraged him to make more money and focus on his career so I could have more babies and some new home stuff from Target.
The inequality in our home is 100 percent on me.
5
@A F
So you admit it was your choice, stop projecting your choices and desires on others. Economic dependence isn't appealing to may of us, even if we get an "alpha man" in exchange (blech).
1
You just never give it up Ms. Miller, identity obsession, intellectualization and rationalization.
It was fatal to Hillary and one of the reasons we have an ego maniac demagogue in the WH today.
A key factor in a successful marriage is to let anybody do whatever they want and/or are capable of doing.
If a man wants to do housework 24/7 or vice versa let them, as long as the other spouse agrees.
Let them negotiate the things in between. Don't not identity obsess or social engineer.
13
the best career advice I received as a young lawyer was that the most important decision I would make for my career was whether and who to marry. romance and charm are fun but really, will s/he make your life easier or harder?
18
Perhaps it is simply that day-to-day chores are not all that interesting, so the person with the less power tends to shirk more...
The most liberal of men still aren't all that comfortable when their female partners make more than they do.
4
And if supremacy rests in physical power men are stronger and bigger then women decided in biology. It’s hard to escape the oblivious.
@ms
And vice versa, women don't want a man who makes less than them.
It goes both ways.
I don't know if you are married, but in my experience, women hold much, much more power in marriage than men - emotionally, legally, socially, and sexually.
They don't vacuum for the same reason that they don't know how to use face lotion. Boys are just taught differently than girls in the home. Men in the office assume that it's someone else's job to put away the dishes in the kitchen. But it's not anyone's job. Their female co-worker just does it cause it needs to get done.
9
Fascinating how we still seem to define equality as doing chores in the manner that women define it.
The question is whether men vacuum as much when they are solo as they do when they are married - not if they vacuum as much as women expect them to - you see the difference there?
I have had women in my life who spent every saturday morning hunched over a toilet scrubbing it like it was an operating theatre - I never have and have no intention fulfilling this measure 0f 'chore-equality' because I think it is insane.
16
@SteveRR
My husband kept an immaculate apartment when we were dating. Much neater than my own in fact. The second we moved in together he suddenly didn't know how to clean, 'didn't notice' messes and 6 months into cohabitation had never used the washing machine.
This is typical of straight couples.
When he moved in with a woman, like many other straight men, he clearly didn't think housework was his responsibility anymore. I don't have very high standards for cleaning, but if I didn't change the sheets on the bed, he literally *never* would do it. Yes, I am using literally correctly here. There are many necessary, not extraneous, chores that will never get done if I don't do them or if I don't ask him to.
To the inevitable follow up question of 'why don't you ask him to help?': of course I do, and have, for years. He doesn't change. Oh, and I am the breadwinner and work more hours than he does, in case you were wondering.
4
It’s not that men haven’t “evolved” to do household chores; it’s that they just don’t care. If a woman wants a true partner in chores, she needs to look at how the man maintains his own house before she decides to marry him.
47
Respectfully, I learned all my homemaking skills long after we had met and married. She didn’t find a guy who vacuumed well, she found one who loved and respected her: 10 years into our marriage we recognized that her career was more successful and having a stay-at-home parent was our preference for both financial and personal reasons. My wife was always the neater one, and I had to learn how to keep house in my 30s.
Here’s what I did: I looked around the house every morning when everyone else had headed off to school/work and worked all day long to ensure that my wife wouldn’t have to lift a finger when she got home. Dinner was served and she could sit down after a busy day and have a cocktail. I failed at this *many* times, but learned on the job and now am pretty good. Even to this day, If I need help, I ask her for some coaching.
I was a slob and now I’m not. And I learned this from her, late in life.
6
@Mr. Mom thank you for your service
3
It seems the topic is not “gender roles,” but old-school sex roles, unless the implication is that an individual’s identification aligns with their household behavior and ideals. It’d be interesting to see a study on that.
In the meantime, remembering that sex and gender are different and resisting the urge to use the terms interchangeably would make articles like this much more useful and informative.
I'm not a millennial (I'm Gen X), but here are my 2 cents anyway:
Couples should split chores equitably (not necessarily equally). The split should be a mutual decision and based on each person's interests, abilities, and also amount of free time, etc. I don't think traditional gender roles should have anything to do with it, though if the split reflects those roles because of the above reasons, that's fine. (And this may well happen as abilities would reflect what people did when young and that is likely influenced by traditional gender roles).
My wife and I both work outside of the house and I think we split household chores fairly equitably (maybe she'd disagree, but I don't think so). Frankly, I do more of the cleaning simply because I have more time at home (she certainly is better at it) given commutes, etc. That's not equal, but it is fair. A strictly equal split would in fact be unfair.
She cooks more than I do (she is far better at that). I'm more able to do things that require heavy lifting, so I do more of that. I do the finances (a strength on mine), she does the travel planning (she likes that, I don't). Growing up my dad did all of the cooking because he loved it and was good at it, while my mom hated it and wasn't terribly good at it. Every couple should figure out what works for them and make sure that both spouses have equal input into the decision-making process about how to divide things up. Again, the key is an equitable, not equal division.
59
@Z Excellent!! And that's how my husband & I (boomers) divided the work load - time, skills, importance - not gender.
3
She cooks while you do the heavy lifting?
I would venture to say that the work of cooking takes up over 100x more time than any heavy lifting jobs that come around.
Maybe 1000 times.
1
This article, though interesting, fails to make clear what the results were, based on the sex of the person filling out the survey. The article states, for example, that "a sociology study published last month found that when high school seniors were asked about their ideal family arrangement with young children, almost a quarter said it was for the man to work full time and the woman to stay home, a larger share than desired any other arrangement." What percentage of responders who said the ideal was for the woman to stay home were male? The gender of the responder makes all the difference in the world in making sense of the results.
What would have been far more compelling than the aggregated data presented in this article is data segregated by gender. Which gender says women "do a little less homework and childcare" than they used to? Do females say that "to be a good man means to be employed"? What percentage of females say "a father staying home was unacceptable"? What percentage of females say that among young couples, daily child care was "equal"?
The best book I've ever read on gender issues is "Invisible Women: Exposing data bias in a world designed for men" by Caroline Criado Perez. Once you read it, you won't look at the world the same way. The discrimination women suffer is horrifying not merely because of the tremendous extra burden on their entire lives, but because our culture virtually ensures that most males don't see that discrimination.
19
Thanks for the book suggestion, ALB. Got it headed my way right now!
Very interesting article, survey, and commentary. With two-income families, which is now the norm, it is only fair that both share equally in the chores. Men have had it too easy lately. I don’t see them out there felling trees, plowing fields, or hunting for food these days. At least do the vacuuming once in a while.
18
Love the title of the article -- it says it all. In terms of the disparity between men and women when it comes to housekeeping, especially cleaning, there is usually a big difference in standards. Not sure whether it's nature or nurture, but most men, if left to their own devices, would happily live in conditions many women would consider squalor. Women generally do more traditional housekeeping chores because they care more about getting those chores done. (BTW, I'm a married woman who decided, after years of hounding my mate to share in the cleaning chores, to do them by myself because I was the one who wanted to live in cleanliness and order -- it makes little difference to him.)
5
@SML Apparently your wishes and happiness "make little difference to him" as well.
1
I disagree with the premise here, that there is a sexist divide among couples when it comes to running a household. When I lost my job at the age of 55 and prospects of a new one looked bleak, my wife, who has a good job, and I 'flipped' responsibilities. She went to work and, as a stay-at-home husband, I assumed all the household chores and responsibilities (yes, I made the bed in the morning, cleaned the house and cooked all our meals). But, oddly, it was my wife who refused to relinquish a handful of duties; vacuuming (she's a fanatic about it), washing clothes (claiming I 'just wouldn't do it right') and ironing. I have come to the conclusion that these were 'comfort' activities for her, helping her wind down so I let it be. Ultimately I believe it is not a sexist division for most couples but a negotiated peace.
26
@Jimmy I wouldn't use this singular anecdotal experience to understand, well--everyone else. I think most women would gladly cede most of this work if they could, in a heartbeat.
23
@Jimmy I wouldn't use your singular anecdotal experience to understand, well--everyone else. I think most women would gladly cede most of this work if they could, in a heartbeat.
1
@Jimmy
I laughed when I read your wife’s comment about laundry. My husband puts my pants in the dryer and the length shrinks. I can’t count the number of pants that have gone to Goodwill so that some woman who has legs shorter than mine can wear them.
Woemn believe in gender equality but still won't pay for a man's drink, ask men out, propose marriage and the list goes on and on. One thing we have done semi successfully is integrate equality at the workplace, but at a personal level, we are still very much traditional.
8
@Kevin And there may be something to this as part of the problem of domestic inequity. But keep in mind most men don't want to be asked out, proposed to, etc. So if it is a problem, the blame goes to both genders.
12
@Kevin I asked my present husband out on our first date - in fact I asked him if he would like to go for a drink, and I paid for the first 'round' of 2 drinks, after which we went turn and turn about. I also asked if he would like to get married, and when we did do so, I kept my own name. I don't think anything I did (or do) was unusual - but then I'm Irish (from Ireland) where women are generally not wimps... US and English women do seem to be more 'traditional' though, based on my experience of later living in both of those countries.
6
The fact that you did it doesn't mean it never happens, there are definitely cases where it does, much like there are men who help out more in the household. However, this is the tendency both genders have had.
I’m fine with doing all the dishes or all the cooking. What would be really helpful is splitting the logistics and planning. This is the heavy lift that remains unrecognized by the culture.
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@Angelica Absolutely. Some fantastic writers have written about the burden of being the household manager and its unrecognized toll.
20
@Angelica logistics, planning, scheduling can sometimes be a part time job! Some help with that would be appreciated, as I’m a clean freak and do all the housework too.
3
Two takes, one sociological and one personal.
First, American culture is traditional and success-oriented, so the idea that you can make significant changes in personal behavior is not realistic. Not that it isn't important, but I doubt the US will make significant inroads into equality of any kind, nor will it ever have great success in human welfare. It is simply not a quality of life country, and for every two steps forward, there will be a hard line of attack pushing back against it. As for education, I have always thought education was a 'pink' endeavor, so higher levels of female education is nothing new.
Second, my spouse and I live in Manhattan, and when it came to housework, we found that I was doing more of it, not out of a drive for equality, but simply because I was better at most home activities; I grew up without a father, and when I was very young helped with cleaning the house. At some point, it became too much, or at least too much for us to adequately enjoy our weekends so we hired someone to come in every two weeks. I still do activities I am better at, as well as some of the traditional male activities like electronics and minor home maintenance, as far as a condo needs maintenance, but we are glad to have off-loaded housework to someone else who we can pay for the service.
5
If you restricted your view to vacuuming, dishes and shopping for groceries then you'd think my wife did about 85% of the work around the house. If you expanded your definition of housework to include, installing shelving units, redoing the garage, putting up a fence for the dog, installing and repairing the irrigation lines, swapping out light switches for dimmer switches and any other of the more traditionally "male" jobs that a house never seems to run out of then you would get a different picture of how my household runs. As far as our two boys go, we each spend a lot of time in the car driving them from one event to another and prepping meals. I suspect a lot of houses look like mine.
25
@cs I would hope the demographic this survey used to determine who in household does certain chores/upkeep was not limited to a large metropolitan city but a wide selection of areas to include suburban and rural areas where homeownership was the norm, not renting a condo or apartment in a large city. If it was just limited to NYC or someplace similar, you're expanded definition of housework would not suffice as it wouldn't be you changing light switches or fixing some other mundane item in your home; it would be the maintenance person. But that point aside, I get what you're saying.
For the record, on top of working a nine hour day, I routinely do nearly everything on that list including laundry. I also ensure my wife comes home to a freshly cooked, hot dinner as she typically doesn't get home from work until 6:30 or 7pm as she's most deserving.
10
@cs How often do you install shelving, redo the garage, put up fence, install or repair irrigation lines, or install dimmer switches? Most of these sound like one-time projects, and the others maybe every 5 to 10 years or longer before recurring.
Compare with chores that recur weekly, daily, or even multiple times per day.
Shelving, etc. has value, but we’re talking major apples vs oranges miscomparison here ...
166
@JB Absolutely true. And what's more, outsidede this anecdote, many households barely have lawns--and hire people to mow if they do.
9
Many commenters are substituting their lifestyles for the result of a poll of young people. The thesis is that gender equality has become the norm in many areas of life, except the home. Maybe that is not true for your and your friends but it is true for these polled young people. Conjecture about how much cleaner women are than men isn't a factor because one study was about high school seniors' thoughts. The other study examined what type of chores each person actually performed. In 2020, men were doing traditional outdoor work and women were doing the traditional indoor work. Be aware that indoor work, like washing dishes, is almost constant, and outdoor work, like mowing the lawn, is occasional. Women who accept these arrangements are setting themselves up for a lifetime of heavy lifting.
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@Monica Indeed. Many men here bringing up lightbulb changing (have to laugh a bit at that fragility) as a counter to the overwhelming research.
26
@Monica But it's harder to mow a lawn than it is to wash dishes. The intensity of the work has to be taken into account.
2
@Josh Hill hilarious. dishes have to be done daily. a yard is mowed every few weeks and maybe not in the winter, right?
17
I'm noticing a moment where surveys once again lack nuance. How many couples 18-34 hire a professional cleaning service at least occasionally? I'll bet you'll find the statistic is drastically higher than couples age 55+ when they were 18-34.
So while 10 percent of housecleaning is largely consistent across all age groups, the amount of house the couple is actually cleaning has decreased over time. Dual-income households are forced to outsource domestic chores. Ask yourself: Does ordering groceries online count as grocery shopping? What about automatic bill paying?
This dataset has flattened the real meaning behind modern trends.
4
One phenomenon that helps explain a lot of this is in female attitudes about dating. I recently read an article on Medium from a woman who argued that when women allowed the man to pay for their first date they were being sexist.
This article provoked howls of criticism from other women who argued that when men don't pay they cannot see the "value" of a woman. Poor men (the poets of the world) were viewed as a priori lesser lovers.
Given this situation is it any wonder the pay gap persists?
3
I think you’re putting the cart before the horse. Perhaps if women were paid equally there would be fewer women who expect the man to pay for the date?
The tradition of the man paying was because men worked and made money. Women did not. Paying for dates was a way of showing the man could provide for his family. Women didn’t work because they didn’t have the same opportunities - not because they wanted a free meal.
As women have joined the workforce the expectation that the man pays has become less universal, but is still present. But most well paid women I know have no such expectation because they know they are capable of providing for themselves (and proud of it!).
10
@Jo--but women working is now a tradition nearly half a century old, yet women at all stages of their careers still, in the main, still prefer men who make money.
Women argue that men who do more housework, for example, get more sex, but anecdotally (my experience and that of men I know) it seems to be the reverse. Men who do more housework are seen as lesser men by the very women who ask them to do it. Women use men's extra housework not to pay attention to the men caring for them, but to make more money.
Sadly, in order to get a woman, the main thing a man should do, even in 2020, is make more money than she does, and do less housework.
1
Yes, women have been in the workforce for decades. Yet usually still make less than men for the same work.
The points you bring up I believe are mostly generational. My brother is a stay-at-home dad. His wife is a Chem E. She does not cook or clean (my brother is a phenomenal cook so who can blame her). My BIL was a work-from-home dad while their kids were young and shares household chores. Both of my SILs make significantly more than their spouses. I have many friends that the wife makes more than the husband. I don’t think less of the men and neither do their wives. I respect them for being secure in themselves and their relationships. I can’t speak for millennials, but the majority of Gen X women I know take pride in their independence and marry accordingly.
4
With a smile --- the graph forgot to mention grilling (on a outside grill) and it seems to me to be a 95% for men.
15
The biggest arguments I've seen over household chores is not division of labor, it's how often and how thoroughly its done. A lot of women rather just have their partners take out the trash, maintain the yard and fix stuff rather than fight about how clean the house really needs to be.
19
@Mario Not sure what women you've polled (guessing only your partner), but I am certain your finding is wrong.
4
@Mario Do not substitute anecdote for research. Most women would gladly cede this work.
7
@MG I think you misunderstood. If a man took over household chores but he thinks dishes can sit in the sink for a few days, vacuuming can be once a month, and can't we all wear our clothes a lot longer before laundry?.. a woman might decide it's not worth that fight.
1
Unfortunately, I Didn’t see too much equality in my child custody case (I’m a man). It’s a far more important issue than who does the vacuuming or does the yard work.
Take a look at this please.
3
@M Murray
Yes, gender inequality hurts men in certain ways, too. Equality would really help everyone.
1
This starts in toddlerhood when girls are expected to put toys away, and boy's toys are cleaned up by adults.
Seeing Daddy cook dinner or throw clothes in the wash still tells children that Mommy is the one responsible, and Daddy is "helping out".
Boys need to see the men in their lives assuming responsibility for the care of the home in the moment, and planning for that care in the future. If it is always Mommy's responsibility to have laundry detergent in stock or order snacks online, then that is what they learn.
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@Cathy
Wow, your comment really smacked me in the face! There is such a difference in effort---especially of the mental sort---between doing a quick task that's directly in front of you (running a load of laundry, loading/unloading dishes, cooking a weeknight meal, picking up kids) vs. the advance planning/activities to make sure the quick tasks are even possible (stock taking, shopping, arranging after school care). That's to say nothing of planning all of the things that can't be done spur of the moment like investing, household accounting, taxes, vacation booking, summer camp sign-up, doctor scheduling, managing household help (babysitters, dog walkers), etc. I would love to see the study results for who does the relatively mindless, done in 30 minutes or less tasks (yes, I recognize they are meaningful, necessary work!) vs. the ones which require more mental effort, time and advance planning.
3
Look, I have a very liberal family and yet my older brother who can cook and clean with the best of them, is still a misogynist who was annoyed when we bought his son a family of dolls and my family bought them a play kitchen. These ideas of gender are pervasivene and associated with power/ weakness. Now he has a 6 year old son who thinks he is only allowed to be interested in cars and super heroes and will openly tell you that in defense of my offering him a costume. Sure, my brother can talk about equality and spin a nice story but his actions are training a new generation of boy, who thinks child rearing and cooking makes him weak. As a culture, we have long way to go. My male cousin told he last week that cultural change has to happen slowly or people revolt. I'm not sure how many women would revolt at being treated with equal respect. For at least the population (many men are included in this), change can't come fast enough.
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@sarah Would you resent it if he bought your girl a toy gun? I think when you bring your politics into something as simple as a family gift, it's going to generate resentment.
1
@OneView
I don't know a girl in my daughter's generation (now 14) that didn't have a toy gun when she was little. And bow and arrow, for that matter. None of us considered this political, and I live in a solidly Dem/liberal area.
1
Not surprising, given the socialization that begins with toddlers shows (e.g., Mickey Mouse Clubhouse--very old-fashioned gender roles) all the way to laundry detergent ads, where only recently have finally begun featuring men involved with you know, cleaning their own clothes (or maybe even their family's). I do think this will all change too, especially as men and women begin to become more aware that more equitable households are more successful (happier and financially better off). But it may take some time. If a man was doing my laundry and cleaning, I would be so delighted I think I would face any change kicking and screaming too.
10
The more flexible time my husband has, the smaller share of the household work he performs.
I work full time. He does not. I do 70% of the housework and 90% of the emotional and logistical work of supporting our children.
It stinks. I can see how and why that leads to divorce.
241
@Cousy My husband does zero housework, not when the kids were little and not now. And I work outside the home too. Am I bitter? Yup.
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@Cousy You're stronger than you think you are. Show him this article and your post. He is counting on you to be too polite/non-confrontational to say anything. Don't be that woman (I speak from experience). The longer it goes, the harder it gets. Don't enable him anymore. And unless the kids are under 5, stop doing so much of the emotional work. Your husband and the kids can pick up some of that slack. And if not, maybe it wasn't so crucial in the first place.
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@Cousy I read an article once that suggested the amount of sex a husband gets is commensurate to the amount of housework they do. This is because the wife slowly lets her resentment simmer, causing the wife to NOT be attracted to her husband (women are less visual than men; treating us well is foreplay). So guess what? After getting up at 5 to finish grading papers, waking the kids at 7 to get them ready for school, working a full day, coming home, doing laundry, cooking dinner, cleaning kitchen, giving the kids a bath, folding the laundry, and helping the children with homework, she doesn't feel like putting on a sexy nighty and going at it with you.
39
I grew up with a working mother, she pushed against what was expected of her in the 1970s and entered the professional world. Still, my brother never learned how to cook and clean. We spent summers with my grandmother and grandfather and I learned how to cook and take care of my baby cousins. I changed diapers, helped cooked meals and baked.
My brother didn’t. He played or watched TV - my electrician uncle taught him when he was older how to do simple electric work- so he could help him out.
I changed diapers and cleaned.
My father was and is the one who championed me as an artist and as a little girl who wasn’t told I couldn’t do certain things . It wasn’t the women in my life as much as the men. It isn’t just men.
Women perpetuate sexism constantly. I’ve been Infantilized by women more than men. In terms of being an artist - the guys encouraged me- I learned foundry and how to weld. My dad handed me a hammer at age 10. My grandmother respected my talent but I learned how to make beds and clean the toilet. During holidays the men socialized or watched tv while the women cooked: I’m glad I know how to cook and how to bake/ but I’ve been told by boyfriends - I just don’t know how to clean. Teach them!
Marie Kondo life is not for me. I would rather obsess on paint and color. Female artists have had such a different experience than men - what female artist had a man taking care of the boring stuff ? Creative women have suffered by being wives of artists.
26
@Lil I couldn't agree more! Aged 14, in 1970,I was helping my mother out with the ironing (mostly my clothes), while our 'daily' cleaning lady was doing some vacuuming in the same room. My mother put a couple of school shirts belonging to my brother (2 years younger) on top of the ironing basket. I put the iron down and said that my brother could iron his own shirts. I can still remember the look of horror on the faces of both my mother and the cleaning lady - who sputtered that 'boys don't iron' (!). I retorted that my brother was as perfectly capable of ironing as I was. My mother, to her credit, conceded that this was true, and called my brother in to iron his own shirts. He has been doing so ever since...
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@EskieF You did him a great service.
11
@EskieF Love this! I grew up in a family with 4 sisters & 4 brothers, a working dad (who believed this female could be anything she wanted) & stay at home mom (what else could she do with 9 kids?). Mom used to make the girls make ALL the beds every morning, clean up, wash dishes, pack lunches every day, etc. Until we girls revolted. Said the boys are capable of making their own beds. One night after dinner, we declared it’s the boys turn - and we took turns thereafter. I believe that helped my brothers become more self sufficient.
My husband, growing up with a large pack of brothers (& 1 sister) & working widowed mother, had to learn domestic skills early - no women in the household available for that. He has never shied away from ANY “women’s” work, or even from men knowing he does it. THAT is a healthy male ego (& why I married him)!
Because I had a full time+ male-dominated career (& the primary financial provider in my family), I taught my kids (both genders), how to do their own laundry at age 12, how to cook basic meals, how to clean bathrooms, vacuum, dust, organize their stuff, & yeah, make their bed (last one didn’t stick well). Now on their own, I am comfortable knowing they can take care of the basics in life. And I like construction & power tools.
55
My Marine WWII veteran father taught me and my two older brothers to clean the house, and not just because he and my mother both worked full-time jobs. He wanted to make sure we were able to do for ourselves, and that included cooking. So now I clean the kitchen and will do everything else, along with my wife- except the laundry- the one thing she will never (rightfully so) let me do, lest I shrink all of her clothes.
Men will never be a woman’s equal if they cannot pull their own weight around the house. And every day, I thank my father for drilling it into me to do my share.
146
I think our fathers who fought in World War II knew how to take care of themselves because the Armed Forces taught them how to. Dad could cook, sew, and iron (and taught me how to fold clothes and get out wrinkles without ironing); and then there were other things he did, probably because he was so glad to be back home after four years in the Pacific -- he shopped on Saturdays, he took me to the library and to museums, and he liked to read.
He taught me the names of clouds and how to time storms coming in over the water.
There's much to be said for a citizen soldiery.
29
@B. Your father sounds like a wonderful man. I would be that if you have children, you taught them many of the same skills, and more, gave them a broader sense of what it means to be part of a community, whether that's a family or a country, than many children get.
3
In my experience, the issue is not one of who is assigned what task, but what I consider a priority and what my spouse considers a priority. I have no interest in her doing all the housework. I just don’t want to do it *right now.*
5
@Joshua Krause
That may sound funny to you, but it reflects an entitlement that should give you pause. Your spouse may feel the urgency because she has other stuff to do as well.
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@Cousy I'd never thought if it this way: you are so right. She most likely is not rushing off to watch a game or do something equally not pressing, but yet another needed task in what--per the research--is a neverending list. Thank you for this insight, truly.
36
@Joshua Krause :
In my experience, the "not right now" response often results in dirty dishes left in the sink overnight, a countertop left greasy for hours on end, and an overflowing dirty laundry basket.
36
Gender is not the only factor. What about age? Might there be age differences in the couple which might effect not only attitudes but also ability. That leads to health which is the same.
Also the state of the relationship might count.
Also, there are times when the couple can afford it, but whoever is doing most of the housework insists on continuing and not just hiring help. Thus perhaps there is also the matter of control.
The survey seems somewhat superficial.
3
Oh, please. The fact that the average human male can tolerate more “mess” than the average female is pretty much a given across the entire species. And the fact that the average female is not happy with that fact is equally obvious. Let’s all go howl at the moon.
42
@John D Cite your research please.
11
@John D I think women are socialized to care more. We are "blamed" for a messy home whereas a man is not held to the same standard. But I did some soul searching and found that I care even less than my husband does about housekeeping. Sadly, the world still sees housekeeping as primarily my job, so now we just avoid entertaining at home.
12
@MG you’re absolutely right, no study to cite. Enjoy reading this same article annually until the end of time.
2
Equality doesn't mean what you think it does. You don't think your gains will be offset by losses elsewhere.
1
As if we needed another study to tell us what we already know.
38
I suppose we should thank men for raking the leaves and making sure the car runs.
7
@MIMA Haha, good one. So true that men ask for praise for these infrequent tasks (and at least where I live, pay for said tasks to be done most of the time).
22
I rake the leaves. I know how to work on cars. My father taught me.
No excuses.
9
@MIMA .
I was always the one who did the raking, snow shoveling, and gardening. But I am one of those rare women who enjoys those tasks.
1
I'd love to understand this article, but my 60-something year old husband won't turn off the vacuum cleaner so I can concentrate!
7
My wife believes in gender equality, but she still won’t change the oil, put air in a tire, mow the lawn, rake leaves, shovel snow, or even change a lightbulb. We all have our burdens. You better believe I leave the vacuuming and dusting up to her. Sincerely - A guy who does his own laundry and cooking.
30
Then. Men better start teaching your daughters . I learned all of these things from my father .
I love physics work. I’ve taught little girls how to build things w wood. Tiny little five year old girls thrilled they can saw and even use power drill ( w my help) the look on these girls faces is priceless. No one told them they could do this: I do not blame men - but specific men have and can behave differently. but society tells girls to get dressed up and be pretty. By age 6 I knew this was ridiculous. I would say my mother pushed more gender roles around the house than my dad ever did.
Teach your children differently. And yeah women you too: !!!
14
I do the vacuuming at home (my beloved wife hates doing that), participate in the laundry and ironing, cook half of the time and generaly help rear the kids, including getting up in the morning to feed and dress them. I consider all of this to be a normal part of being married. I anyway had to do most of these things myself when I was single, so why should that change once married?
Also, I'm an engineer, 43 years old, and my wife earns more money than I do: she's a lawyer specialised in divorce cases, so I'd better keep her happy anyway.
264
@SJP
I love this comment! The last sentence is precious.
Thinking you guys have worked it all out better than most. Good for you. Your kids are lucky to observe. I bet they pitch in, too.
36
Things have changed for the better : my brother stayed home when his daughter was born for the same reason. He is not a housekeeper tho- but a great dad he is!
16
@SJP What I didn't notice in this piece was the word 'care', except in relation to 'child care'.
I'm just using my imagination to understand what it is you care about. Doing your own housework before marriage, presumably getting a good education since it appears you have a good job, attending to your children, holding on to your well educated wife: these things show care.
I'm not imagining that before you were married your future wife came over, cleaned your refrigerator, took out the garbage and made you a good meal, at least not routinely.
Further down the economic ladder, there are women who for some reason do care about these domestic issues. Saw a documentary on Mennonite culture where women positively loved this role.
As things go more in the progressive direction, perhaps we will be hearing, less and less, 'Nice guys finish last'.
1
As a mother of two and an executive in the financial services sector, I’ve always said that equality starts at home. If you don’t have a real, equitable partnership at home, it is difficult to achieve equality in the workplace in terms of opportunity and pay. I have a young adult son and a teenage daughter. They both contribute to family chores, along with my husband. That’s what family should be.
132
I read that the chore app for kids showed that even families pay their daughters less. That shocked me .
11
It could be as simple as men see there are fewer things “needed” to keep the house “clean.” The concepts of clean, orderly, efficient are a continuum. In general men skew toward one end and women to the other. Sure there are plenty of messy girls, but the joke is always about the condition of a teenage boy’s room. I have been in sororities and fraternities. Big difference!
13
@GR Moore I have seen many, many couples where it is the opposite.
11
@MG
War of the anecdotes.
2
Whoever is doing a household task becomes in charge of defining how well done it is or not. So, if the doer is not the one who cares as much about how well done it is, then there's a problem, because spouses/partners are not employees: they can't be bossed around *effectively*.
Over the years, I've come to see that this dynamic rudders a fair bit of sorting of household tasks.
19
I am a man.
I grew up on a rural farm in East Texas. I routinely, as a boy and an older teenager, swept the entire house. I enjoyed the routine and the peace and quiet of sweeping. I enjoyed the clean look when I was done.
I grew up where quiet penetrated many aspects of what I did, and, I have good hearing still today.
However, I now live, and, have lived, in a house with partial carpeting. I have been married, now, 35 years.
I despise vacuuming. Why?
Not because of any confusion about male/female roles, but, because the sound is horrifyingly loud and ugly. We never had enough money to build a house with a remote, in the basement vacuum system.
Even with the best hearing protection that is sold, I cannot stand the sound of vacuuming. Vacuuming, to me, sounds like a screaming animal dying. Having grown up on a farm, I know what that sounds like.
I would offer this thought: perhaps many men have a similar response to my own and don't even know the reason why they do not want to vacuum?
I, on the other hand, will sweep every square inch of the house, that is wood floor, in peace and quiet. But, if my wife fires up the vacuum cleaner, I leave the house immediately. She knows my problem, does not like it, but accepted it years ago.
Screaming animals dying? I don't want to hear it. Period.
9
@Michael This is what we call a stretch. Why wouldn't women be turned off by the sound of animals dying?
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@Michael
Try noise cancelling headphones and listen to the music of your choice.
18
@Lori Wilson
I have wondered about noise cancelling headphones. But, I thought they would be less effective than commercial hearing protection.
I will try them. Thank you for the suggestion.
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It would be worth considering that some of our ideas about gender may be innate and not learned, which explains the persistence towards traditional gender roles that the academics in this piece seem so confused by, despite decades of calls for equality at home and at work. Why do young people, the most liberal generation of Americans, still skew traditional under the surface? It can’t just be a matter of more education. Perhaps because to bring social change we are really working against biology and not just against the wrong ideas. Perhaps if we approach ideas about gender as more deeply embedded, on a biological level, that will give us a better understanding of how to approach this problem and equalizing the burden of care across gender. Maybe genders actually prefer to care in distinct ways, and self-report as such. Would be interesting to see a study highlighting chore and care distribution with partner satisfaction on division of labor and effectiveness of household management.
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@R
There is so much common sense in your comment. THANK YOU!!
I think everyone is trying to force feed us the fact that gender is a social construct and they do not seem to accept that we are biologically different to a certain extent. If you just observe the pattern of behaviour in men and women you will notice it. And what if social constructs are just a result of our biology??
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Maybe bc every single thing we learn since day one is gendered.
In human history - the tasks got more divided once we became agrarian. Hunter gatherers - some days- were much more egalitarian:
In different American tribes - the women built the shelter and skinned the animals/ did all but the hunting and fighting - all - it was what was expected so much that their monthly trip to the menstrual hut was welcome. At least in many of those cultures if you chose a different role- it was accepted.
Girls can build and learn how to engineer at young ages. It’s not just innate. I had this debate about women being more nurturing . And we are bc having more mirror neurons but in every other way our brains work the same. I read so many scientific articles on this.
It’s important to challenge what you think w information.
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@R Is it truly rooted biology or deeply ingrained habits passed along the generations?
We can't always think ourselves out of old habits and ideas that have been passed down, many of them subconsciously. I think you are positing that this is associated with some real brain wiring, while I think it's associated more with us being social animals evolved to stay in line for the good of the group.
I don't mean to say literally everything can be equalized between the sexes (women will always be the ones nursing babies and the physically strongest person in the world will always be a man). But cultural habits and norms have differed so widely over time and across the world that I think humans are mentally pliable enough to move towards something more egalitarian.
We just have to see those actions modeled for us, particularly when young
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