the devil is in the details. title IX requires schools to do something it doesn't say what. mandatory reporting to the police would be a start. I wouldn't expect De Vos to consider something with teeth like a public domestic abusers registry.
3
What I want to know about these new "rules" is how they will apply towards males and females. Will it be the same set of rules or will there be differences in interpretations/application?
For example as a society we generally think it is okay for a female to physically hit a male. We generally think that the harpy like shrieking that some females engage in is okay despite the content and manipulation in their words.
We generally think a female who calls/texts/emails a male a hundred times a day as just being 'overly emotional'. We generally think a female who follows a male around, pops up at his location repeatedly and who menaces/insults/demeans/accuses other females who she sees him with, as just being mistreated by him for not returning her 'affections'.
will those things be actionable as stalking? harassing? violence?
what about the female who intentionally sets out to have "sex with the ex" in order to harm his current relationship or otherwise "get him back" or "get back at him"? where does that fall into these new rules?
Sexual harassment, stalking, violence and assault are bad things and NO ONE, male or female, should engage in those actions. The question is what are the rules and how will those rules be applied?
do women continue to get a free pass for bad behavior?
I hope not. If women are to be consistently treated as equals then the exact same rules must apply to them. No Free Pass for bad/crazy behavior.
So we layer more and more responsibility on top of institutions, right?
Great.
Now, what about women who don't attend college?
Looks like they're on their own with no institution to share the blame with the perpetrator.
Nice work, America.
Yeah, Betsy DeVos is gonna make change. Her boss is a documented sexual harrasser and predator but hey that shouldn't matter.
FYI my tongue is in my cheek...that is being nice!
1
I wouldn’t trust anything coming out of DeVos’ Department of Education. If you sincerely care about stopping/ending domestic violence, sexual assault, dating violence, and stalking, please urge Congress to reauthorize the federal Violence Against Women Act (VAWA).
6
Pardon my cynicism at lauding Betsy DeVos (pre-election) as a champion of women’s rights. A little something to balance her destruction of public education will not redeem her in my eyes. I wonder how long it will take for the other shoe to drop? Will everyone come to agree it’s probably just too stressful and dangerous for girls to be in co-ed schools? Or perhaps the goal is to deter boys from college too, for fear of prosecution during this window of putative women’s rights? That will certainly help solve the student loan debt crisis.
And when public education is dismantled, DeVos can take her place on the Guardians’ counsel and draw up Gilead’s new Constitution, confident that her family fortune in private schools, prisons and waging war will continue to grow.
1
Erica
Scotland defined sexual assault, dv, etc. as forms of gender discrimination in 2013 and several campus programs were initiated as demonstration projects re: what differences the new focus would make on dating violence, attitudes, etc. on campuses. If you plan to do any followup on your story, I could put you in touch with Melanie McCarry the faculty in charge when I was advising. It would make an interesting feature side.
Before I retired, I taught high school seniors. One year I had a young man who was sexually harassing in the classroom. The final straw was when he sent me a note admiring my “buns.” Mind you, I was old enough to be his grandmother, so I knew he thought he was being funny. I pulled him into hall and read him the riot act, first about respect and then about the possible trouble he would get into in the real world (being fired or subject to a lawsuit). He was truly shook up and apologized. What struck me was how ignorant he was about sexual harassment. I had to take a harassment course each year. Why are we not educating young people about this topic?
35
@Kb
Upringing and parents leading by example...simple as that. Teachers can reinforce but it is at home where everything is formed
3
Can you imagine as an adult being assigned a bed and then having a nearby couple "doing it" while you are trying to sleep? Can you imagine coed bathrooms where people are taking showers with only a thin piece of plastic between them and total strangers of both sexes? Can you imagine a housing situation where every night there are lots of people who are not tenants sleeping? Can you imagine a housing situation where other people have keys to your bedroom door? Can you imagine a housing situation where people are doing drugs, drinking and playing music after 11 pm every night? Can you imagine a housing situation where you can't even change your clothes with an expectation of being alone for a few minutes? Can you imagine meeting a person you might want to date and then having him turn up a few hours later in your bathroom acting like he owns the place because he is on some other student's guest list? Can you imagine breaking up with someone and then having him in the room next door with another partner the next week?
That is what the girls' dorm I lived in when I was 17 was like. I did complain to the resident professors about a naked man washing his genitals in the sink and living next door to me in the girls' dorm. They moved me to a different floor but allowed the man, who was not a tenant, to continue to live with his "girlfriend." I was made to feel like a prude, like I was out of step.
I hope the new regs get colleges to provide protected living situations.
5
I’m reading through this carefully to make sure I understand. Am I correct in interpreting this that the Trump administration is actually doing something right for once?
2
I work on a college campus and have for my entire career (over 25 years). I have never thought it a good idea for colleges to adjudicate criminal cases except perhaps in very minor ones like marijuana possession. Yet, here we are, in 2020, and colleges are still clumsily adjudicating cases involving serious felonies. Colleges, and the people who work for them, mostly do not have the expertise or the impartiality required to hear these difficult cases and they should not be hearing them, in my opinion. Why this has been allowed to continue for decades is beyond me.
32
@Thomas Indeed, this is certainly a criminal justice matter that campus police are obliged to report to law enforcement. Academic punishment is secondary. Moreover, campus politics are irrelevant in these matters and this isn't something to "debate."
5
@Thomas I too work in Higher Education (15 years), what is your proposed answer? If the institution is made aware that a student is violent should they allow that student to continue enrollment? Or rather should they remove the student after a process where information is collected. It is not imprisonment that is for the courts but it is protecting the campus population (faculty, staff, and students).
6
@CJ
the challenge with your scenario is exactly what @Thomas is alluding too.
Student A gets mad at Student B. Makes claim Student B is "violent" or some other thing.
Teachers and Faculty are NOT the appropriate individuals to 'investigate' that claim. They are not trained to do so and have no documentation requirement to chronicle what they have done to "investigate"
In today's world those colleges doing these investigations amount to one or two Faculty types and hyper-partisan "student councils" that are adjudicating and holding trials that have no legal or factual evidence requirements.
Instead they typically rely on a female accusing a male of something and then crying. No proof just a claim and a manipulative attempt to gain sympathy.
Add in the Me Too movements underlying screed ( which is that men are automatically guilty just because a female said they are) and what you have is a toxic, highly partisan group of untrained people sitting in judgement over legal matters.
In America ALL people are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law....except when the Me Too types declare otherwise.
The schools response should be engage the local police and make sure an investigation of claims happens. If determined to be unfounded, the ACCUSER is the one that should be expelled.
2
How is it that a college allows a woman student to have a man living in her dorm room (or vice versa)?
6
The police and the laws are there to protect the wealthy people and corporations. They look upon average people as unimportant. They know who they really work for, and it's not you or me.
Universities have no legal authority, but then, they probably want to pretend that they can make people safe because they know the police will not. You know, all the bad press could be meaningful to how many young people they can put in debt early in life, their main contribution as loyal minions to the oligarchs.
Most people taught their children to remain children. They stuffed them in their cults and denied discussion of real adult issues because their preachers, priest and politicians find childish cult members to be the most easily persuadable and the best of serfs. So, it should be expected that these childish cult members will be confused, clumsy and criminal when it comes to human interactions that might lead to real adult relationships. They start from a point of ignorance and have a habit of believing magic or other lunacies, but what they are dealing with is a biological drive.
4
@Chris
The last paragraph of your comment is the most important comment on this comment thread. The cultish reference is a bit over the top but the core truth is too many parents do everything to keep their infants. Kids are no longer allowed to defend themselves let alone taught how to do it. Kids are not taught how to recognize safe from unsafe. They are told they can do anything their little heart's desire.
1
Part of the title 9 rights women demand, however, is that they, too, should have the same privileges and powers as did male college students at most or a great many colleges/universities for men. I lived in a female floor in a room with a girl back in the 70's. At any number of schools, I might have spent all 4 years there, without interference. Of course, I am not a felon or murderer---the biggest problem among many such co-ed couples is keeping them together without tears and raised voices. Until now, colleges have tried to leave these decision up to the people involved.
By allowing the parents of a few to sue for unconscionable sums, or enforce their own versions of "responsiblility", all of Title 9 will have to be flushed-& a new set of strict, 19th century like behavioral rules be enforced on women and -by extension, upontheir men, as all female students become subject to tutelage of "house parents" and possibly searches of their rooms, to see if any have men's clothes or pregnancy preventatives-thus exposing themselves with being sexually active on school grounds.
how long can such rules can hold in todays society, where only a tiny minority wish to be treated like 10 year olds?
2
No one is advocating celibacy. But coed dorm rooms are a bad idea.
2
No Trump appointee is capable of real reform. Their motive is always money for the special interests which fund Trump.
Trust none of them.
1
since a student who is in danger apparently can't ask the police for help, the school must provide adequate protection. I don't see how anybody can be against this rule change, given how dire the situation is. It seems that commenters are against it solely because it was initiated by Betsy DeVos.
@gus Because she is incapable of meaningful reform. There is always another reason for her changes.
1
@David Henry
Yep, Betsy's ulterior motive is to parent every kid that shows up a college by making universities liv-in daycare centers for adult sized infants. In other words she picked up right where the Obama administration left off.
If anyone should be sued it should be the parent who failed to teach their children right from wrong and how to survive as an adult.
@Sierra Morgan This is fantasy. Where do you get these notions from?
Private schools and universities have such a strong motivation not to see these problems for what they are, to define/transform them into something else, or to insist they be handled quietly (often ineptly) by using campus police or some ersatz administrative make-believe judicial proceeding.
A university that employed me for over 15 years had a local reputation as a stalking ground for sexual predators. But you'd never know it because the school worked hard to keep all types/instances of predation from making it into the news and adversely affecting its reputation and applications/enrollment.
Key to their strategy was keeping area law enforcement from learning about any attacks and discouraging victims from reporting their experiences.
6
@SurlyBird
Please, the whole world is a stalking ground for criminals. People need to wake up and take responsibility for their own actions or inactions. Dating violence is a criminal offense, report it to the police. The community needs to let the police know dating violence will be investigated or they will be replaced with people who will. Taxpayers will have to pay for the cost of more police. The schools have no right, legal or otherwise to adjudicate criminal offenses, especially the ones that do not happen on their property.
2
@Sierra Morgan Not defending it Protest all you like. But it's not going to change the sad facts. Private schools and universities create and maintain their own "unsafe" spaces, free from outside monitoring OR interference.
1
Violence and stalking = gender discrimination?
Seems to me violence and stalking = campus police not a campus administrator.
Wasn't DeVos the one defending the perpetrators and blaming the victims in relation to all this Title IX stuff?
She has been the worst, most out of touch and divisive Education Secretary ever.
19
How we got from Title IX to the universities acting as police and court system is beyond me. If someone is being abused or threatened or hurt, well, we have a criminal justice system in place. The city police should have jurisdiction and deal with crimes of violence, not the campus police. This interpretation of Title IX that the university is responsible to adjudicate cases of sexual violence is very Alice in Wonderland.
21
Parents , schools , communities need to help young women spot potential abuse and protect themselves. And learn self defense. It should be required. And something I taught my daughter. No drinking in mixed company . No men in your dorm room . No hooking up .She got a wonderful education , became the president of the feminist organization.
And today is an advocate for women’s rights .your daughters can accomplish similar successes. They just need the right guidance and support.
4
Not just ‘help young women’ but also teach young men. The problem is that young men learn from older men. Getting drunk, assaulting, etc are all considered a rite of passage. It should not be ‘normalized’, ‘boys will be boys’ may be acceptable to the ‘wife’ of the orange-utan, but should not be to the rest. Of any age, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, etc,
8
Rape is a crime of violence, not an act of discrimination. The same goes for similar violent crimes.
17
@michjas You are wrong. Forcibly hanging other people by their necks is an act of violence. When it was done almost exclusively to African Americans by white people it was race based killings. Rape will not be “an act of discrimination” once women start raping men in anything near the numbers that men rape and terrorize women.
10
@Emma
You are so very very very wrong. Rape is not discrimination, it is a violent crime. I know I was beaten and raped by 5 males when I was 17. It is beyond disgusting to have rape be reduced to the level of discrimination, which I experience every day of my life because of skin color of my parents. My education and experience make it difficult for employers to discriminate against me based on skin color or gender. People who want to rape will rape and it won't matter what their victim's skin color or gender is.
Please stop trying to normalize violent crimes by equating them with discrimination.
4
In the Sixties and Seventies the college battle by progressive students, including women's groups, was to get the university to stop claiming the right to act in loco parentis. Now students, with the backing of the Feds, are demanding the the colleges act in loco parentis. Be careful what you wish for because, once granted power, an institution (such as Presidential Executive Orders) retains the power to do things you really don't like.
Schools acting as the criminal justice system: would you want a lawyer fixing your electrical system?
The killing of kids by various "law enforcement" units at Kent State and Jackson State did not occur because the murdered students were demanding their schools act in loco parentis, let alone provide verbally safe spaces.
6
@Steve Fankuchen It does not seem like the victims here want loco parentis but loco police- for lack of a better word. The tension here is not because students don’t want to be coddled- it’s because colleges insist that police departments stay out of school business. If colleges deny their students the services of police officers they must provide the same level of protection to students in dangerous situations, such as it is.
9
@Emma
Emma, thank you for your reply. If as you say colleges are creating barriers to governmental pursuit of dealing with campus-related (not just on-campus) crime, then your point is valid, though my own solution would be to break down those barriers, especially as there is no reason to believe colleges, with agendas far removed from law enforcement, evidence no particular ability, let alone professional ability, to deal with criminal matters.
If you can, I (and others I am sure) would appreciate some non-anecdotal evidence that "... colleges insist that police departments stay out of school business." In the Sixties, this was a major issue for students, perhaps reaching its zenith when the cops invaded the Sorbonne in May '68, that serving as a catalyst for a major uprising against the government throughout France.
1
Betsy De Vos policing corrupt/criminal educational institutions is like Carmela Soprano policing the Bada Bing Club. Or Skyler White running the DEA.
7
The article says "The number of episodes ... increased each year" but the data only show that the number of reported episodes increased. It is likely that over the past few years the percentage of reports has gone up, so one has to dig deeper to know whether the number of incidents has changed much. I think one should be careful about this, because there is a big difference between a reporting increase and a real increase in incidents.
Please not that I am not casting doubt on whether there is an increase. I am casting doubt on whether we know or not.
3
Let me start by saying that I hope these new rules reduce lethal violence against women. However, I can't help but to wonder how they will affect non-lethal violence, given that the vast majority of non-lethal dating violence is female-on-male, and that the majority of incidents of domestic violence are initiated by women. Will the new rules draw attention to the more "casual" forms of violence employed by females (slapping, throwing objects, attempted punching, kicking, etc...)? If you've been to college or ever had an active nightlife, you've likely seen drunk women go nuts on guys many times, right out in public for everyone to see, and you've turned a blind eye to it because it seems so harmless. But will we continue to ignore this stuff if it becomes a form of "gender violence"?
14
@BlueGreen What sources would you cite to support your statements that, “the vast majority of non-lethal dating violence is female-on-male,” or “that the majority of incidents of domestic violence are initiated by women”? Or is your evidence purely anecdotal?
13
I have to say my first take was exactly with bluegreen. I have a daughter i need to ensure is safe but in my experience of 43yrs the vast majority of non violent offenders and stalkers are women. The majority of violence reported as a crime is men. This seems disengenous or misguided at best. We need to do more but im not sure this is it.
3
@Mark P
Cite some actual reputable studies, rather than one of the top of my head opinion.
6
This is merely a ploy for the re-Election Campaign.
Period.
8
@Phyliss Dalmatian Its the only and first thing that comes to mind. DeVos is not to be trusted.
3
I'm so glad I'm not in college anymore. This is more terrifying than Organic Chemistry.
12
@Randeep Chauhan
My sentiments exactly. When did male and female college students start to hate each other so much? When I was in college, none of this happened. Granted, I went to a women’s college, but most weekends and many weekdays we would be with men from other colleges, fraternities, and some non-college men from the community. I recall there was often (but not always) drinking, but we acted silly, not aggressive. Feelings expressed were friendship, romantic, or not interested. I had one experience of violence (I hit him because I was scared) and the same man then stalked me. It turned out he was having a first break psychotic episode related to a lifetime illness of schizophrenia. With the stalking, I got help really quickly by the police (and this might be important), who were a police department for the university area, not campus security. I think that police department functioned as campus security and local police combined. But, there was much less conflict and animosity between students back then.
1
@Jade East I graduated in 2016; you can see how quickly the changes have happened. I agree, actual crime should be handled by police, not HR departments.
I'm surprised at the comments here. This rule change seems to expand the scope of behavior for which colleges and universities are themselves held legally responsible. It expands the authority of the well trained professionals on these campuses who's full time job is to work with community members experiencing Title IX violations. It seems to be quite literally the first policy from the Trump administration which is designed to enhance protections for victims rather than perpetrators of violence.
I question the timing, but support the policy change. As a parent and college professor I would rather have more resources than less devoted to protecting the safety of campus communities.
11
Been preaching Title IX awareness to my college age granddaughters for the last year. A lecture and/or course should be required for all students. It won't solve the issue for all, but might help some understand their rights and not "assume" what is supposed to happen. There are too many but "what if"s to get into a realistic dialogue in this format
9
@Osborn If you are counting on Betsy Devos to save your granddaughters, you are mistaken. She is more likely to award college credit to boys who successfully get away with rape and sexual-assault. You want to protect your granddaughters? Enroll them in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and they will triangle (choke) the life out of any untrained male attacker--and let's face it, most of these wussy males are not trained in anything--including potty training.
1
Best thing colleges can do is prevent binge drinking.
Anyone caught too drunk to walk should be banned from living or loitering on campus. Criminal activity should be left to the police to deal with.
13
I urge you to listen to The Daily podcast from February 7 2020, “The Woman Defending Harvey Weinstein.” It’s illuminating and thought provoking. While the Weinstein case is a criminal action, there are many applications to college settings. These are not easy issues and most attempts to set standards are flawed regardless of good intent. All we can do as a society is try to make sure standards are clear and rules and laws are applied evenly regardless of the circumstances.
Colleges are dangerous learning institutions. Professors assault young women male students assault women and there is so much binge drinking and depression why are they still allowed to stay open. Home schooling will save lots of emotional abuse from happening also . Like the song says colleges what are they good for absolutely nothing.
3
@D.j.j.k. Are you really recommending home schooling for college??? There are precious few parents who would be qualified, even if it were advisable. Perhaps, your comment was meant to be sarcasm.
8
@D.j.j.k. This is the same rhetoric used by anti vaxxers, look how that’s working out... Our learning institutions, despite it’s flaws, will pull our country out of this mess we’ve found ourselves in.
4
@D.j.j.k.
I suppose you might be thinking of online courses, but I’ve always thought that too many of those could reduce the student’s’ opportunity to learn about themselves and their peers in the context of the social setting traditional colleges offer.
1
I'm thinking back on Jennifer Lopez's Super Bowl performance and its relation to sexual violence. If a woman even that powerful makes such a public statement, that women are foremost sexual objects, sure they can be powerful like her, but essentially are there for men's pleasure, are we not teaching one and all this lesson? These boys who killed these girls were raised on the idea that women have no agency or voice, and if they do it's only the voice of allowing herself to be an object. On balance, JLo was a net negative and against, not for, women's empowerment.
22
@AG well said
4
@AG I disagree. I thought that performance was strong and empowered. Objectification is in the eye of the beholder.
4
None of these young women had to die, and none of the administrators should have a job.
12
Colleges have no business policing the sex lives of students. Get your bureaucratic hands off! I’m a liberal Democrat, but the Title IX rules are an abomination.
5
@Stephen Colleges are accountable for student safety on their premises. When they allow students or employees to create an unsafe environment, particularly for one subgroup of students, they have to expect consequences.
12
This isn’t about sex. It’s about criminal abuse.
2
The article mentions some truly disturbing examples.
Title IX funds in one thing law and order another.
Why is police not called, why are criminal charges not brought in these instances?
Vaguely reminds me of the Dade County school mass shooter who seemed to be committing a felony per week without consequences prior to the mass shooting he committed.
And same applies to campus rape. It happened or it had not. It should be a police matter from the moment bit is reported. Expulsion is not a penalty on the books for rape. Nor is a conviction without reasonable doubt threshold.
41
@Detachment Is Possible Exactly. Reminds me of the Catholic Church and the “we are our own legal system” approach.
17
Call the police! If the police don't do their job are we expecting college administrators to deal with dangerous criminals? This is bizarre. Everything described in the article is illegal behavior that can get the perpetrator arrested. Teach your kids to stand up for themselves and call the police.
172
@Teal Exactly. If you are assaulted, threatened, stalked, or the victim of any other crime on or off campus, call the police. They know how to deal with these matters. It's what they do; it's their job. And after you report it to the police, you can report it to university authorities as well, but don't rely on them to protect you. When it comes to crime and criminals, they're amateurs.
57
She did call the police!!! But SLC police told her to contact campus police instead
33
@Teal It is the school’s responsibility to ensure that students have equally safe access to the schools resources. If students are being harassed or abused, they can’t take part in their school program equally. It would be a dereliction of duty, and a form of discrimination on the basis of sex to ignore it and hope that the police (with their ‘great’record in these matters take care of it.
“The Supreme Court's Gebser and Davis decisions establish that a school or other educational program that receives federal funding will be liable under Title IX for damages for the sexual abuse or harassment of a student only if it acted with "deliberate indifference" in its response to known discrimination”
7
There is no such thing as politically correct or politically incorrect violence or threats of violence. There ought to be a federal statute that prohibits them, regardless of the gender, or lack thereof, of the victim or the perpetrator. Trying to pigeonhole violence into gender discrimination is silly and a cop out for not having the political will to enact the appropriate legislation.
29
@Jay Orchard
Criminality is a state responsibility, not a federal one, under our Constitution, with defined exceptions. Do you want the federal government to exercise more control over local matters? Note that this is not a defense of the way state and local authorities -- or federal authorities -- handle crime.
1
@Jay Orchard Who exactly “lacks gender”?
1
@Jay Orchard - Men kill women a lot. Women kill men infrequently. Therefore gender violence is real. Sorry you find it uncomfortable but we all need to get busy accepting reality so that women can be protected.
8
When will the innocuous descriptions such as “domestic” violence and “dating” violence be rejected for what the problem really is: it’s The continuous, age-old horror of murderous “men” who continuously abuse, rape, torture and murder women every day all over the world. Punch, slap, kick, slash, stab, choke, strangle, shoot, drown, you name it, they inflict it. “Honour killings” and other atrocities show no signs of abating and are supported by police. Young girls are forced to marry much older men in many cultures. Mass murderers target women. The hatred and jealousy is childish but the male sex has a corner on this. Women are always asked why they stay with abusive men, but no one asks the men why the they kill.
17
@Elizabeth
The male sex has a corner on this behavior?
You do realize that there are a lot of abusive women.
6
And so therefore it’s okay if women are victimized? The fact that men are usually three or four inches taller and have three times the upper body strength shouldn’t entitle us to seek protection?
3
Schools have no business in law enforcement. And they're clearly ineffective too. Blame also lies with tenured radicals who protest any police presence on campuses.
Colleges and universities are not exempt from the laws governing the larger community.
16
@Tina Trent @Teal It is the school’s responsibility to ensure that students have equally safe access to the schools resources. If students are being harassed or abused, they can’t take part in their school program equally. It would be a dereliction of duty, and a form of discrimination on the basis of sex to ignore it and hope that the police (with their ‘great’record in these matters take care of it.
“The Supreme Court's Gebser and Davis decisions establish that a school or other educational program that receives federal funding will be liable under Title IX for damages for the sexual abuse or harassment of a student only if it acted with "deliberate indifference" in its response to known discrimination”
2
Civil Rights law? Give me a break. Nice idea, but not NEARLY enough. Educators are not trained to do the job. How long will it take for them to act?
If your stalker is booted off the campus, what's to stop him from coming back? All states have laws that prohibit this.
If you are stalked or harassed by some fanatic who wants to hurt you then you need the police. That's what handcuffs and jail cells are for.
19
@Premier Comandante @Teal It is the school’s responsibility to ensure that students have equally safe access to the schools resources. If students are being harassed or abused, they can’t take part in their school program equally. It would be a dereliction of duty, and a form of discrimination on the basis of sex to ignore it and hope that the police (with their ‘great’record in these matters take care of it.
“The Supreme Court's Gebser and Davis decisions establish that a school or other educational program that receives federal funding will be liable under Title IX for damages for the sexual abuse or harassment of a student only if it acted with "deliberate indifference" in its response to known discrimination”
3
None of these changes will do any good whatsoever until every college, junior college, and university in the United States completely eliminated drinking alcohol on campus and in off campus housing. The drinking age in every state is 21 and over and we have these things happening in every academic grade level. It is the alcohol that causes people to act like idiots, especially when they are young. Sure older adults act like idiots when they drink too much, but they have greater maturity and hopefully self control. End the drinking completely everywhere for anyone under 21 and the problem will shrink to manageable size. If someone drinks anyplace connected with the school they go suspend them for a semester first and then expel them. Oh, did I leave this out; no one lives with anyone of the opposite sex when they are going to school, and if they are LGBTQ they live alone in their rooms. Its the booze stupid!
5
Did you read the article ? This was not about drunken non consensual sex. It’s about stalking and killing young women..
11
@Joel Friedlander
Yes, alcohol is a significant factor.
But it's the culture that is the underlying factor: entitlement, power and getting a pass from punishment.
My experience of being in a graduate program decades ago was that the main threat was sexual harassment by the male faculty.
Sadly, the stories I heard decades later indicate that its hasn't entirely hadn't changed for the younger generation.
Sexual harassment, discrimination and assault occur all.the.time. during sober daylight hours, in work environments, university settings, and on the streets.
How about they expel actual offenders, including employees, not everyone.
1
I’ve never understood how these matters are a university issue... to me they seem to fall squarely under the purview of the criminal justice system.
108
@GBR The trouble in Lauren’s case was that the Salt Lake City police just referred her back to campus police, who did nothing.
16
Because laws outside of / in addition to the criminal codes govern the conduct of US educational institutions. People might wish that the criminal justice system alone handles these matters, but, other existing laws also apply. This article summarizes proposed changes to US Department of Education rules governing how educational institutions must fulfill their obligations under the law, specifically Title IX. There are several US laws that require educational institutions, from elementary schools through universities, to respond to gender based violence on campuses. Title IX holds: “No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any educational program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.” The Clery Act requires the maintenance and publishing of crime statistics, the issuance of timely warnings re: ongoing threats to the campus community, and the provision of emergency response and notification policies. The Campus SaVE Act updated the Clery Act, expanding Clery's scope in terms of reporting, response, and prevention education requirements around rape, acquaintance rape, domestic violence, dating violence, sexual assault, and stalking. These laws require schools to protect, respond, and redress harms that befall students who experience gender based discrimination and violence while on campus, something that the criminal justice system cannot do.
5
@GBR I was always told during college, "if it happens on school grounds, the campus police or administration handle it"
Campus police are not in the city or state criminal justice system
2
Betsy will be tough until one of the "Christian" fraternity brothers gets in trouble.
16
@jas2200
Or a Jock, or a boy who is connected by his family money.
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As a foreigner I find it astonishing that something as serious as sexual violence could ever not be investigated by the police but by untrained or at least inexperienced educators. The universities should certainly take all appropriate measures to prevent such incidents but as soon as there is a threat or a crime has been committed it should allways be law enforcement that takes over. Both for the protection of victims and to preserve the rights of the accused.
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@Mr. Köp @Teal It is the school’s responsibility to ensure that students have equally safe access to the schools resources. If students are being harassed or abused, they can’t take part in their school program equally. It would be a dereliction of duty, and a form of discrimination on the basis of sex to ignore it and hope that the police (with their ‘great’record in these matters take care of it.
“The Supreme Court's Gebser and Davis decisions establish that a school or other educational program that receives federal funding will be liable under Title IX for damages for the sexual abuse or harassment of a student only if it acted with "deliberate indifference" in its response to known discrimination”
Call me cynical, but I see DeVos's "new rules" as codifying requirements that will strain the already overburdened and ill-equipped Title IX offices, HR services, campus police, and administrative bodies dealing with sexual harassment, sexual assault, and discrimination in schools and colleges to the breaking point. They probably create a Catch 22 as well: no federal funding (i.e. taking away resources to help meet demands) if failure to comply; no ability to comply (i.e. add more resources to meet the demands) without federal funding. As the horrendous stories detailed here clearly indicate, the universities, colleges, and schools where the victims were enrolled were worse than woefully incapable of responding properly; they deserve to be held liable for their negligence. But DeVos's new rules simply add to the burdens and expectations. They are commandments that will probably be impossible to fulfill, setting in train the withdrawal of federal funding. And that seems to be precisely with this Department of Education seeks to accomplish.
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Wait, what? Progress can be made under Trump? What will the Democrats have to talk about? What this shows and registers is the profound shift in social attitudes towards greater support of women's rights and dignity, against decades and decades of foot dragging by both parties, Democrats and Republicans. DeVoss has to deal with this reality. No the fight is to implement and use these protections for women without weakening hard-fought democratic and civil rights of due process and presumption of innocence. As women feel more confident they will confront abuses and assaults without the need to infantilize them.
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Perhaps our universities should spend less time and money on “trigger warnings” and creating “safe spaces” where students are protected from hearing concepts or opinions that offend their tender sensibilities and more time and money on real safety issues like protecting them from physical violence and murder? Just a thought....
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I’d wager that you don’t actually work at a university. Controversies over “trigger warnings” and “safe spaces” were largely ginned up by conservative media. They aren’t that big a deal in most universities.
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As we assign more and more responsibilities to our educators, and require them to get ever more training to deal with every ailment that afflicts our society, is it surprising that they are distracted from teaching? We are asking too much of our teachers and our schools, setting them up to fail.
This is not an education problem. It seems to be more of a law enforcement problem. If you want to put cops, social workers or psychiatrists in our schools, fine, do so. But make them separate from our schools and our teaching staffs. We need to be doing more to ease the burdens on schools and teachers, not piling on higher and deeper.
Let our teachers teach. Their mission should be education, not social work. If we force them to do both, they will do both poorly.
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@Tom Meadowcroft When I was in public school in the ‘70s, we had security guards, social workers and psychologists. Just as teachers should teach but would also send a sick or injured student to the school nurse, they should also be expected to get appropriate help for an endangered student.
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@Lawyermom They're ADULTS. I teach classes where I only see my students once a week. I know nothing of their personal lives, nor should I be required to have that knowledge. Of course, if someone comes to me for help, I am trained to get them in touch with the proper people who CAN help them. Perhaps PARENTS should teach their children BEFORE they become adults what to do if they are harassed and abused.
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@Michelle I was responding to the previous comment, which seemed to be addressing public schools, referring to “teachers” rather than professors, for example. I agree that people in college should know what to do before they leave home.
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On the one hand, it's good to see that the agency is taking the issue seriously. On the other hand, I don't understand why this issue is being dealt with as a form of gender discrimination. The CDC's ratio of males who suffer partner abuse seems to be more comparable to the ratio of females than I would have thought. Don't get me wrong, I can see why the parents of that poor girl who was murdered are alleging gender discrimination in that particular case. However, as a matter of policy, it seems that you would not want to discount other potential victims. If a male wants to file a case, can he do so under gender discrimination? For now, this seems unclear to me.
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Yes, I believe so. If a woman is being stalked by a man, she can claim that he has chosen to subject her to this because she is a woman, hence the gender discrimination label. If a man is being stalked by a woman, he can claim that she has chosen to subject him to this because he is a man (also gender discrimination). I would think that even if the stalker is not heterosexual, you could point to the fact he/she is attracted to men/women and is therefore stalking this man/woman because they are a man/woman, and therefore the person being stalked is a victim of gender discrimination.
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I hope you are correct because I, a cis gay female, suffered from emotional and physical abuse by a former girlfriend about 11 years ago. I would really, really like clarification from DeVos that male-male or female-female abuse is treated as seriously as opposite sex abuse. Knowing her uber religious ways I can’t be sure she even believes that it happens or that she should care, but I want to hear it from her.
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File under: “Can’t win.”
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There are many reasons why sexual assault survivors and those in violent, abusive relationships often choose to not notify the police. Documentation is pervasive where people have gone to the police and they have been blamed for the assault, disbelieved or totally ignored. In the attached case https://casetext.com/case/fox-v-town-of-framingham
the school police officer did not believe the then 15 year old female was sexually assaulted because, “did you see how tight her pants were”? There is is no way he got his hand down there”. The perpetrator then sexually assaulted another student in the high school.
Tragically, the negligence of the detective and others at the University of Utah led to a student’s death. If the adults in charge choose not to act then victims will continue to remain silent resulting in more and more assaults and deaths.
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They are not "gender discrimination".
They are crimes, prosecutable under state laws.
It is important to make distinctions. A student is not in a position to discriminate against another student. Criminals go to jail.
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@Jonathan Katz - only when someone finally calls the police, not the campus counselor.
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@Jonathan Katz Great point!
@Jonathan Katz @Teal It is the school’s responsibility to ensure that students have equally safe access to the schools resources. If students are being harassed or abused, they can’t take part in their school program equally. It would be a dereliction of duty, and a form of discrimination on the basis of sex to ignore it and hope that the police (with their ‘great’record in these matters take care of it.
“The Supreme Court's Gebser and Davis decisions establish that a school or other educational program that receives federal funding will be liable under Title IX for damages for the sexual abuse or harassment of a student only if it acted with "deliberate indifference" in its response to known discrimination”
This is a report of improvement; clearer definitions and better regulations may prove helpful. But so much more is needed to allow young people to avoid these situations from the first moment. The poor girl who let a creepy old felon move into her dorm room somehow didn’t know any better. We need programs at every level that will give young people the confidence and skills to make smart choices. Pity for the victim and punishment for the perpetrator are all fine but let’s go much further and help our youngsters avoid violence from the beginning.
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The very best thing that colleges and universities can do to reduce domestic violence amongst their students is to institute random alcohol testing for all students under the age of 21 as a condition of attending the college. Failure of an alcohol urine test would be grounds for expulsion. A few expelled students will set the example that drinking will not be tolerated. When drinking isn't tolerated, there are less occurrences of bad judgment and disinhibited behavior. In an era where so many qualified students are not accepted, there will be plenty of kids ready to fill the expelled students' slots.
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I don't know if there's a significant correlation between domestic violence among teenagers/college students and alcohol abuse. I mean, such a policy would expel students with alcohol problems, but there's no evidence showing that it would resolve incidents of abuse. And you're assuming that all people struggling with alcoholism are abusive, and that's simply not true. I've met some charming, harmless alcoholics who are sadly a danger only to themselves.
Substance abuse is a disease. If a student has this problem at such a young age, my instinct would be to force them to attend therapy and AA in order to remain at the school (if it's a private school). And hopefully, the school has staff members that can help with these issues. Why punish someone who is struggling with addiction? You don't know their story or the steps they're taking to fight that battle on their own. People in those situations need support, not retribution.
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@Jmart And there are many students who are of legal drinking age attending college.
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@Jmart Alcohol does affect a part of the brain that controls aggressive behavior. In Plato's Republic the last test before becoming the president of the republic is the test of alcohol. They make the candidate drink excessively.. If he exhibits violent tendencies or becomes angry or repetitive, he is automatically disqualified because they consider him too unstable for the job. That was twenty five hundred years ago in ancient Greece. They already figure it out. That was brilliant and pertinent.
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Devos is the Dolores Umbridge of the muggle world. I refuse to believe anything she does benefits anyone but herself, if that.
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@Cousineddie
The who of the what world?
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@Jonathan Katz See Harry Potter volumes 5-7.
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@Cousineddie. She is, in fact, a wonderful woman, wonderful wife, wonderful mother who is absolutely committed to children whatever their race or economic position. It is bitterly ironic that Ms Devos and many African Americans agree that school choice is a good ghing—meanwhile, the Dem presidential candidates and other white liberals are more interested in supporting the teachers union. I would note too that the Devos family has given tremendously to western Michigan and helped make Grsnd Rapids a great town.
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Good, sort of. Ow when credible complaints are made by women, how about arresting the rapists, abusers and stalkers, and put them in jail. Treat the crimes as crimes. This is what happens in the real world.
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@Tom: I don't disagree, because criminals should indeed be arrested, but sadly, it is not uncommon for "regular" police departments to treat even credible reports of student-on-student crime dismissively. This is one reason why young women and men turn to campus offices for help. And criminal justice processes can take years; in the meantime, the victimized student has to try to complete his or her education on a campus where the assailant may also be a student. It's usually the victim who finds that unbearable and may drop out. No simple answers here.
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@Tom unfortunately, most rapists, abusers and stalkers "in the real world" do not get reported, and if they are reported, do not get arrested and if arrested are out on bond, and if convicted do not serve time
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@Tom @Teal It is the school’s responsibility to ensure that students have equally safe access to the schools resources. If students are being harassed or abused, they can’t take part in their school program equally. It would be a dereliction of duty, and a form of discrimination on the basis of sex to ignore it and hope that the police (with their ‘great’record in these matters take care of it.
“The Supreme Court's Gebser and Davis decisions establish that a school or other educational program that receives federal funding will be liable under Title IX for damages for the sexual abuse or harassment of a student only if it acted with "deliberate indifference" in its response to known discrimination”
Every high school and college student and their parents:
a.) should watch the excellent 2015 documentary "The Hunting Ground" about the epidemic of sexual assault on every college campus in America and the institutional cover-up by the university administrations, the university athletic departments and the local police departments; and
b.) should read Chanel Miller's 2019 memoir "Know My Name" about her experience being sexually assaulted by a frat member/athlete at Stanford and the travesty of justice she received from Stanford University and from the justice system in Palo Alto.
The documentary and memoir mentioned above should be part of the curriculum of every high school (irregardless of whether they are public, private, or religious) in the country. It is because of the public awareness being generated by this documentary and this memoir that today we see Betsy DeVos's hand forced to action on the issue of gender discrimination under Title IX.
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@Madison
Remember, universities are not interested in punishing rapists or protecting victims. They are interested in concealing the true rate of sexual assault to protect their reputations.
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@Madison They should all read Plato's Republic it deals with this issue decisively.
1
Just call the police
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@Mary M in this case, she did call the city police,who ignored her. Sadly, if they had taken her complaint seriously, they would have discovered that her stalker was on parole.
Leaving this to underequipped campus police is not the answer. The police have shown not to be very good in this area either. Here's a thought.....raise your son's not to be violent with women. Raise your daughter's not to accept (or engage with) violent behavior from anybody.
I feel horrible for any young woman (or man) that is involved in this kind of relationship.......but these young people aren't raising themselves.
Parents have to step up......Relying on Betsy DeVos to do what is right is probably not going to work out in the end.
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@Mary The victims in this article had broken up or rebuffed the perpetrators. How would they “not engage” with violence?
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I learned nothing about how the new rules were supposed to be more helpful either as far as protecting the victim and ensuring the rights of the accused. She links to things, because she is too lazy to write anything other than a bunch of statistics and other numbers.
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@MPA , More details on the regulations and the intent behind them would help. Opinions may help put things in context, but those in this report are tangential. One would expect better reporting on an important issue concerning young people.
Many posters may not be aware that colleges and universities have their own campus police departments, which operate independently of local police departments. While faculty, staff, or students may report a crime to tue campus police, the campus police may or may not report the crime or misdemeanor to the local police or sheriff’s department. And it is in this way that many crimes and assaults (as well as thefts and burglaries, etc.) go underreported to the local authorities, depending on the legal and formal relationship between campus police and the local police. And it in this way—by keeping thing within campus police—that colleges and universities can clamp down and sweep a lot of things under the rug.
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@prof2000
Here the campus police are fully sworn officers, like those of any other jurisdiction in the state. They can enforce local and state laws, not only school regulations, to the surprise of many student criminals.
If your local campus police don’t do what they should then call the county sheriff or state police and swear out a complaint to them about both the incident and lack of enforcement by the campus police.
4
Can anyone explain why this is the case? Why should crime on campus be treated differently than crime one step off campus?
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@Me I really believe it is so they can manipulate the stats and make their school look more desirable. Until 1990, they weren't even required to obtain, compile and release the info at all! The setup has guaranteed that a number of bad actors graduated without tainting their reputations or blighting their futures. I wish the same could be said of their victims. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clery_Act
4
Okay, but will the new rules prove so difficult to comply with that colleges will fail and lose their federal funding? Is that what this is about?
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@MaraMDolan It's about creating the safest possible environment for what are, in actuality, kids. The previous setup benefited only the college administration.
It is a pleasant surprise that the Ed Dept. is doing something for the victims of sexual violence. All we've heard so far about this administration is the opposite - how it wants to "eliminate" Chapter XI. It seems that they are striking the right balance: broaden the definition of what comes under Chapter XI so that more victims are protected, while curtailing a Soviet-style prosecution of alleged perpetrators, who are entitled to due process.
9
"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said that nearly 1 in 11 female and about 1 in 15 male high school students reported experiencing physical dating violence, and 1 in 9 female and 1 in 36 male high school students reported experiencing sexual dating violence."
So happy to see that you have included men/boys , this is not a one way street
8
I am not opposed to stricter rules and definitions if it stops more women and girls from being killed but...why don't people call actual police rather than relying on school security or administration for help?
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Colleges and universities usually have campus police. Students, staff, and faculty usually will call campus police and they will respond. Here’s tue disconnect: whether or not—or how closely—do campus police work with city/municipal/county police and sheriff departments. In many cases, what is reported to campus police is not necessarily reported to the city police or country sheriff’s department. This situation allows colleges and universities to sweep a lot of criminal assaults and misdemeanors under the rug.
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I had exactly the same thought. The proper authorities should deal with intimate partner violence.
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Not all schools have legitimate police forces. After 6 incidences why did no one go for a restraining order? This is an extreme case, and I can’t tell from this article how it relates to the policy discussed.
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Every person in this country should read "No Visible Bruises" by Rachel Snyder, published last year. If you think that domestic violence on campus or anywhere else has to do with others just because you don't experience it, you are wrong. This is a pervasive problem in our society and has been for decades.
The lack of protection for young women even when they report a problem is terrible. The statistics are such that most of the time no one listens to the women (surprised?) and that even when there is a desire to help, no one really knows how. Mrs. DeVos is a poor choice for Education Secretary, disliking public schools as much as she does, but perhaps this ruling is a step in a new direction. Anything that would protect these women is an improvement.
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In the example cited - an 37 year-old ex-con who was not a member of the campus kidnapped and killed a university student after assaulting and harassing her a number of times.
And someone seriously thinks this is a Title IX infringement?
And that the message to students should be that rather than filing a police report you should get counselling at school?
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@SteveRR
What if someone kidnapped someone at work and killed her after she reported threats and harassment to her manager?
@Eileen Hays If the kidnapper/murder was a co-worker, the manager should have reported it to HR. If it was a non-employee, the manager should have recommended the woman report it to the police.
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@SteveRR The victims of crimes should never report to the campus police. It is a major conflict of interest.
2
DeVos has no clue as to what any of those words mean...
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Just what we need, universities as relationship counselors.
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@Patrick
Are these the kind of "relationships" that you have?
7
Recognizing intimate partner/dating violence on campuses is crucial, but no where is it mentioned that many college dating relationships are same-sex relationships. Assuming only a heterosexual lens will not be helpful in identifying or responding to dating violence on college campuses.
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@CH Come on, it's mostly women and girls who are stalked, threatened and killed. I am sure that some of this exists in all types of relationships but women and girls bear the brunt of it.
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@CH Indeed. Are women incapable of stalking? Are men unstalkable? This approach is not accidental, I think. It was chosen by the pseudo Christians precisely to nail down the idea, in enforceable regulations, that male is male and female is female.
Domestic violence and stalking should have clear legislation and regulation around it, but it should not be based on gender or heterosexuality.
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@CH Gosh! How is this the top comment? LBGT people are so much smarter than this. Not only do we constantly do this for pretty much all mainstream messaging, but if you get to college and hear men shouldnt hit girlfriends and somehow thinks this exempts men to hit boyfriends... you don't belong there.
5