Shut down the disgusting wet open food markets in China . It’s disgusting . It went from a bat to a live animal that was then sold at the market .
Every hear of regulations China? Hello ?
And I do not trust the Chinese government further than I can throw them to be telling the truth about the real scope of the outbreak and the real death toll . I’m sure it’s much worse than they’re reporting . Horrible .
5
We all need to chill out & relax. Trump, our president & resident genius /medical expert said we shouldn't worry. He said the virus will be over in April as soon as it warms up. As further evidence/ proof, he again slashed the CDC budget. But he's jacking up NASA'S budget so we can explore Mars.
Yes indeed, all is normal & perfectly fine in the delusional White House & GOP.
9
I hope the Chinese will stop trafficking in endangered species.
5
The only thing that anyone knows for sure about the virus is that it has spooked the Chinese government into shutting down the world’s largest economy. They wouldn’t have done that unless the thing is far more lethal and contagious than they’re letting on.
Not that we should panic. But it’s highly doubtful that business will return to usual anytime soon. And it IS good to once again start rethinking the (terribly flawed) concept of globalism.
30
The statistic I am tracking and I haven’t heard much about is Coronavirus deaths (roughly 1017) to recovered (roughly 3750) for a 27% death to recovered rate. These statistic have made me question the prominent view of a 2% death rate. Does anyone have any insight into the recovered statistic? Is that number being reported from just severe cases or is this total recovered from all Coronavirus cases?
6
There are a few things to consider here. First, you should divide by the *sum* of fatalities and recovered to get the rate (in this case it’s about 21 percent)
Second, I believe the Chinese government requires that two negative tests come back, and for there to be 5? fever-free days before someone is considered recovered. As such, the recoveries will have a much longer lag than the fatalities.
Honestly, I believe the best numbers to watch are the international cases (especially the cruise). These are better documented, closely monitored, and likely to contains a higher fraction of mild cases due to contact tracing. China is under strain, their testing capabilities are surely saturated, and this is likely to skew the numbers they report in all sorts of hard to predict ways.
7
@Marcus Miller
Like all statistics and”facts” coming from China, I would not trust that recovery rate number. Could easily be a falsified number.
4
1000 deaths in a country the size of China is a barely noticeable blip.
1
@Earl M, So I guess they locked down 50 million people so they could spend more time with their families. Shut down major industrial operations because people were working too many hours & making too much money!
8
50 million in lock down and hundreds of millions more staying home instead of work is more than blip even on a global scale.
8
And yet the country is experiencing an unprecedented response! There are videos of doors to apartment buildings being welded shut w/the residents still inside. People are being forcibly put into quarantine at home and/or taken into quarantine against their will. Whole gigantic cities and the factories that fuel their growth are shut down because of this. Does that sound as if the government of China thinks this is a virus unworthy of its notice?
People need to take heed of China’s actions rather than listening to the soothing words that amount to “nothing to see here.”
8
Does anyone know the incubation period..is it 14 days or now perhaps 24 days. How is it transmitted..by air, touch or other?
None of these questions have been answered medically. That said, it appears the world is along way from finding a cure or resolution.
1000 dead and 40,000 plus infected. But, is the infection number correct...no doubt not. Alot to know.
5
There is so many unknowns about this virus, but one big question I have is can the virus be spread via touching surfaces with bodily fluids of an infected person? And if so, how long can the virus survive on a surface? Hours? Days? Weeks? My family just got over a terrifying experience, because my husband travelled to the same location as the man from Chicago who was recently diagnosed with the virus after his wife (1st person in Chicago/Illinois diagnosed) infected him. He apparently had a meeting in Ohio (likely infected but not yet showing symptoms), and two weeks later my husband had a meeting at the same location. My husband became extremely ill this week with flu like symptoms and tested negative for the flu. After I sent him the article about the Chicago man traveling to Ohio (and same place my husband had appointments), he went straight to the ER. They had him quarantined there, but after several hours in the ER, and the doctors consulting with the CDC, the CDC declined to test my husband for the virus. Their explanation, was basically because he didn't come in "direct contact" with this man my husband was not a person of interest. Which seemed *extremely* foolish to me, given that we live in a very urban area, and my husband takes a train to work. And more importantly, they still don't know how this virus spreads!
22
The chances are that this virus will spread widely and cause significant damage worldwide. The number of cases reported worldwide is sure to be only a fraction of the actual number of infected people, who are continuing to spread this infection.
One sensible precaution every one of us can take is to avoid all international travel unless it is absolutely essential. Stay where you are, avoid large crowds, avoid unnecessary contact with people and wash your hands frequently.
There will be severe strain on healthcare resources, especially ICU and isolation beds. Governments and hospitals need to start planning now as to how they are going to deal with large numbers of severely ill people.
78
Hahaha, that’s awesome, I agree that is concerning, though I don’t think that the virus is on that extreme level of uncontrollable destruction. I may agree with your general things about large crowds if you live in an area that already has large amounts of infection, such as Wuhan, however, your comment seems to be, in my opinion, inciting people to panic, and listing precautions that will only waste people’s time.
10
@Desmond
Last week epidemiologist Jennifer Nuzzo, a senior scholar at Johns Hopkins University's Center for Health Security, testified before the House Foreign Affairs subcommittee. She said:
“I have never seen instances where (travel restriction) has worked when we are talking about a virus at this scale.”
“In China, physicians are looking for sick people, while other countries are looking for people from China. Somewhere in between, infected people are going to be missed.”
“A bigger concern is that the travel restrictions and mandatory quarantines are diverting resources away from fighting the virus. One public health department has 31 health-care workers monitoring two quarantined patients 24 hours a day, she said. As this epidemic grows, that's not likely to scale”
The epidemiologists interviewed on NPR Science Friday said the same thing last week, adding:
“the only way I see this going is that the whole world will potentially looks like China over the next 6 to 12 months”
10
That the Emperor has no clothes has never been on finer display. The weaknesses inherent in his system of top-down control will delay by months getting the Chinese and world economies back on track, and people around the world will suffer for it. Manufacturers of all kinds, including pharmaceuticals, are going to have to diversify their sources of supply if they're to prosper despite spectacular interruptions like this one.
32
Our “bottom-up” system leaves a lot to be desired too. In some places, the schools are about as bad as anywhere in the world, the infrastructure in some states are basically a ruin, and our patchwork of health care systems created millions of uninsured. All this from the wealthiest large country on earth.
I am not a supporter of Chinese totalitarianism, but we have to be careful when we throw stones given our unsolvable issues.
38
The issue with the cruise ship. Why they need to get them ALL tested and into a different form of quarantine.
1) fecal oral transmission. This is why norovirus is always concern. If a crew member is infected and making food. They can spread this to uninflected passengers
2) they have confirmed airborne transmission. So this potentially can travel via the duct system
3) entertainers are going “room to room” to keep people’s spirits up? Seriously?!
4) admit this spreads before symptoms. One unsymptomatic passenger has managed to infect over a hundred people. This should terrify everyone
Admit this is a failure of massive proportions. And remove these people. Test them. And restart the quarantine to day 1 as there is high likelihood there is continued exposure
16
It’s clear people on this commentary board watch way too much Netflix and read too much QAnon. Get a grip, the flu and car accidents kill more people each year
2
Please explain why a pragmatic country like China is doing all that it is doing (I’m
assuming you’re up on China’s self-described “war footing”) if this is no more notice-worthy than influenza or car accidents. If some within the comments are overly concerned about a 1918-like scenario, others within the comments appear overly invested in dismissing legitimate concerns.
4
2020, the year of the pangolin’s revenge
10
"...and 3,062 new cases were recorded in the preceding 24 hours..."
That's the scariest line in this article. This is under near total lock down of a city. I don't mean to incite panic, but like De Niro said in "The Irishman," I'm a little concerned.
11
Even in China, and this virus, it's the safest time in history to be alive. This is an infodemic with headlines of "lethal" and "global pandemic" but the narrative has now quickly shifted to a hospital and cruise ship because it simply is not a reality. Remember this a few months from now when you turn to these for-profit news sources for accurate information.
4
Given China’s role in the medical supply chain, this pandemic has the potential to inflict serious global damage.
7
It suddenly seems bad timing to have a President that does not believe in science, and who gutted the CDC and FDA budgets so the rich could buy bigger yachts.
129
Yes, we know, it all somehow goes back to Trump. To a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Eye roll emoji.
5
Does anyone know how they determine when a case counts as "recovered"? Do they do another test? Or is it just the absence of symptoms? How can they be confident they are no longer a carrier?
14
It depends on the country that’s doing the reporting. I believe in the US, they count cases that were discharged from the hospital to recover at home (but still under self-quarantine, like in the Washington case).
In China, I think you need to be fever free for some number of days and test negative for the virus twice during that time. (Though I don’t remember where I read this)
2
This is very grim indeed. I am thinking of everyone in Wuhan and all of the hospital staff.
I also cannot stop thinking of the people on the Diamond Princess cruise ship. Keeping them in those rooms is inhumane. I have been on a cruise once in my life and had only the lower room with no window. It was so claustrophobic. I cannot imagine being forced into one. Please let those people out. Remove them from the ship. Being contained in those rooms cannot be healthy long-term. The stress cannot be good for their immune systems.
27
@KA let people out, and more people infected?
4
Make no mistake, China is doing best under very difficult situations, including XI. I have no doubt, if we were in such a situation, our depraved, con-man and liar president, would make the situation much, much worse.
32
“The outbreak on the ship, which has been docked at the Yokohama port since Monday, is the largest outside China.”
Yikes. What is the largest? the port, the ship or the outbreak? 🙂
4
@Backwash
The subject of the sentence is “outbreak.”
29
@Backwash noticing the two commas helps.
This soon to be pandemic has not yet peaked. Although one American has died from corona virus that is somewhat less than the 8200 that have died this influenza season. And everyday patients seeking health care in Houston opt out of a flu vaccine.
7
@Backwash
I agree people should be told the flu vaccine will help us beat the coronavirus. Imagine if all the people in the hospital had received their vaccine. Imagine if enough people were vaccinated that those who could not be vaccinated were protected through herd immunity. It just might clear out enough space to free up doctors to tackle this.
Yes, the flu kills more people because people are dumb, or lack the proper incentives. Now imagine those same people with a virus 20 times as lethal and twice as contagious. Some countries do not even allow vaccination against the flu unless you’re a healthcare worker. At least it is not drug resistant TB or ebola spread through mosquitoes.
2
@Backwash
This non-pandemic is already over.
Has this illness begun afflicting other non Asian people outside of SE Asia?
1
Given that experts had said that the course of the disease typically runs 2-3 weeks with the 3rd week being decisive for life and death, it's too early to say that the mortality rate is 2%, because many of the current cases simply have not reached that level of progression yet. So we will not know enough to make a judgement till around 1-2 weeks out at least.
With regard to Diamond Princess, I hope that Japanese authorities pay close attention in the next 2-3 days. Time is limited if the spread is truly exponential, at this point the rate of new cases (cumulative case count doubled in 2 days) is looking like the unchecked rate experienced in China just before the lockdown. If the number of sick continue to double every 2 days, by 21 Feb everyone on that ship would have the virus... and be overflowing the current hospital bed capacity in Japan.
14
The concerns about this virus seems to have created a mass hysteria. Over 60,000 people die each flu in the US. That’s nearly 200 a day. Why aren’t people more outraged by our annual death toll?
11
@TVance because the flu is an equal opportunity infectious agent so to speak. Is the new infectious out break similar inclined??
Do we know yet???
2
The mortality rate for flu is somewhere around one quarter of one percent at worst, assuming 20,000,000 cases and 60,000 deaths, which are low and high figures respectively. If this new virus maintains the current mortality rate of two percent, and infects the same number of people as the flu, you would be looking nearly half a million fatalities!!!!
8
@TVance
Yes, forced vaccination against the flu now might free up enough hospital beds later to save even more lives for this virus. If it never reaches the US then think of how many lives will be saved. Never let a good crisis go to waste.
If it reaches 100,000 they will not be able to stop it !
3
Don’t trust the “experts”, the ones that can’t even forecast the weather for tomorrow. (I am at Disneyland: rain and strong winds were predicted and it was calm and sunny all day...)
Time to panic, seriously!
1
I didn’t realize that weather reporters also weighed in on viral epidemics.
One Brit with total disregard for his fellow humans has infected people across a broad swath of Europe. Blaming China will not help. They have trashed their own economy in order to try to get a handle on this virus.
Are we any better prepared? If 1 million Americans get sick here in very short order, will our First World medicine be up to the test? Especially when Trump has defunded and is proposing further slashing the budgets of the CDC, HHS, and the ACA for the poor?
Republicans can trash the poor as much as they want. We all breathe the same air. If we let them be sick and suffer, we will suffer, too.
44
The really terrifying aspect to this virus is that it
will likely morph into something far more lethal. We know that these viruses and super bugs evolve and emerge stronger. Let us never forget that Mother Nature will defend herself violently if necessary. We are a woefully overpopulated and destructive species.
21
@luluchill That's not a given at all. Viruses can also weaken over time through mutation. A concern, certainly, but not a given.
12
@luluchill
I’m in agreement. Mother Earth is marking her disapproval in more ways than one to bring the human species in check. Thinking the virus, the Australian bushfires and record temperature.
Mother Earth is extremely unhappy.
4
Stop watching so much TV
8
This is a serious issue. It’s very frightening, and people have suffered and are dying. There’s always the real concern that as a virus, the death rate may increase geometrically as the spread of the virus grows or other mutations occur.
But please, try to remember that in the month of January alone, almost 600,000 worldwide will likely have died worldwide due to smoking.
Do I write this to minimize the suffering and deaths that have occurred? No. But I do wish that we could put some of the energy that health crises like this generates towards other health issues. We could save even more lives.
Stay well. Wash your hands.
14
The WHO suggest that this may just be the tip of the iceberg, but can we trust the WHO to be 100% truthful about the “real” numbers when their team finally has a chance to assess the situation first hand, or are they going to be “politic” and downplay the severity of the situation?
10
China's President Xi makes new hospitals, but the epidemic doesn't stop. Are Chinese authorities working in the right direction?
4
The Communists of China have lost the Mandate of Heaven. If the corona virus is strong enough, and US officials smart enough, perhaps China's rise will stop.
When you have too dense of population you end up getting pandemics. 7,000,000,000 people is too many. The corona virus is nature's solution for us.
The corona virus may be the only thing that saves humanity from global warming.
10
@Willt26 The virus was caused by global warming. That was reported on CNN, I think. Or The Hill.
2
@Willt26
Maybe, the Chinese government wants to make a "purge" of the people who aren't good for the regime... (?)
How many people complaining about too many people are willing to get off the ride themselves? Very few, it’s always the other guy that needs to die.
14
So... cruise ships... are still a thing?
How?
How are people still paying money, they pay money, to voluntarily walk onto a boat that is basically a floating petri dish for exotic contagions... and venture out into the open ocean... how?
How is this still a thing? After 500 were sickened on a Royal Caribbean cruise, Carnival cruise that was stuck at see for days without working toilets, and on and on and on... how are people looking at that and thinking to themselves, “sounds like a good group of people I’d like to give thousands of dollars to and trust with my safety.”
Amazing... just amazing.
54
@Austin Ouellette two words-cheap vacation.
8
@Austin Ouellette
A quarantine is a quarantine also in a cruise ship.
1
It would seem that having people stay on cruise ships for 14 day quarantines is dangerous in and of itself. It would seem that sharing the same heat, air/ventilation system would spread the virus?
23
I wouldn't want to be on that ship. .Cruising ships are great big Petri dishes and for this reason I wouldn't go on one. I wish all the passengers the best.
14
Just putting the coronavirus in perspective:
The latest FluView surveillance from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reported that as of January 18, 2020, there have been:
15 million cases of influenza,
140,000 influenza hospitalizations,
and 8200 flu deaths in the US during the current season.
So... please don't panic just yet.
12
I imagine that China is aware of all its own comparable influenza stats. And yet: China has practically shut down its great economic engine since January, cities with populations totaling tens of millions are under strict quarantine, and trucks aerosolizing some form of disinfectant patrol Chinese city streets. Is it possible that the Chinese government is aware of more reason to panic than you may be?
33
Are elevators still a thing?
2
It’s not about the number of deaths, it’s about the deaths as a function of the infections. Using your numbers for flu 8200 deaths from 15,000,000 cases is a rate somewhere around one twentieth of one percent. The new virus has a mortality rate of two percent, which would be roughly 300,000 dead from 15,000,000 cases!!!
1
One can hear Tim Cook now ordering his analysts to decide if it is really cheaper to manufacture iPhones in China. The cost of oppression totalitarianism and stolen intellectual property now also need to have added the cost of incompetent handling of disease.
13
97 in one day!!!!
5
I have a serious question; just putting it out there: Is any agency keeping statistics as to whether the virus kills smokers more than non-smokers? China is known to have a very large number of smokers, especially older men. Could the virus be especially deadly to people whose lungs are already under strain from smoking? (I actually noticed that a memorial to the deceased young doctor, Dr. Li Wenliang, had three cigarettes tucked amongst the floral arrangements, so I wonder if he smoked.)
22
@BJay
Of course, and heart disease, diabetes, all the usual co-morbidities. See the WHO’s website.
Relevance? When so many are suffering?
2
@berman
Perhaps you can give a more complete reference. I looked at the WHO website for the virus and found nothing about smoking.
1
@berman the relevance is that almost 600,0000 people will have died worldwide due to smoking alone, just in the month of January. Is that enough suffering to get your attention?
4
My heart goes out to the Chinese community that resides in NYS--residents who have family in China. It must be very stressful worrying about family members and friends who have the virus, who may be critically ill or who have passed. We need to be supportive of the Chinese community that resides here and must make sure that Chinese americans are not victimized or discriminated against because of the virus. PAUL FEINER, Greenburgh Town Supervisor
41
Sooner or later efforts to control the Wuhan Coronavirus will need to take into account that it's efficacy as a Biological Warfare agent is likely be exploited by a rouge nation or a none-state terrorist group. While the virus may not have the very high rate of transmisivity or the CFR (case fatality rate) of an ideal bio-weapon, it enjoys significant advantages. It is available for free and can be employed without an identifiable, provable hostile source. The introduction of covert spreaders (or super-spreaders) into a location that might otherwise be acting to protect its population could defeat the best peace-time public health infrastructure. Very few societies can boast of a robust bio-defense capability. This is an unforgivable failure, particularly for the affluent nation's. The potential of utilizing a novel virus as a bio-weapon must be widely acknowledged and corrected. Focusing public attention on this threat is an essential step in mustering the necessary resources and will help persuade citizens & their governments to adjust the allocation of their defense efforts.
10
@mike4vfr
This is true if the flu as well. Such is life.
4
Except that: # 1. For whatever time passes until an effective vaccine is developed, produced & distributed. And, # 2 However many of us become infected, the case fatality rate appears to be 20 to 100 times higher. So, instead of the 100,000 annual fatalities globally,
1
I think a “rouge nation” would be quite fabulous, I’m less excited about a rogue nation! ;o)
3
The only silver lining to this horrific mess - if there is a silver lining - is that it is finally putting the obfuscation and opacity of the PRC's authoritarian government on display, worldwide, for all to see. The danger this style of government, at this degree of magnitude (1.4bn) persist and need to be confronted even after this disease outbreak subsides.
24
Your are absolutely right. Unfortunately President Trump and the Republican party, as we saw with the recent farce over his impeachment, are angling to create the same system of obscurity, lies, and illegality.
22
@G Rayns, How can you attack him? Trump fights for God! Regardless of your stance, you speak intelligently, Rayns, and I respect that you fight for integrity and honesty. Trumps has a noble fight as well, protecting innocent life (babies), religious freedom, and ending terrorism. England and the world is safer with Trump fighting for your safety and mine. Hopefully one day, republicans and democrats can all stand to protect the innocent like we always did in the past.
Can anyone imagine our fearless leader, Trump, doing what Xi has done, exposing himself to infection by this highly contagious and apparently incurable disease?
16
You make a good point! I think it's time for Trump to go on an extended tour of China to help reassure our manufacturing allies that everything is okay.
47
@archer717
Any US president, incluging Trump, would not let this happen, period.
4
@Bill Langeman No need- what is happening on cruise ships in Hong Kong and Japan and in Wuhan will be coming our way - only a matter of time. Trump's presidency and perhaps Trump himself will be at risk- but it will be small consolation as 2019-nCoV does not discriminate between and among Americans of different political persuasions. Our nation is at risk and this only the calm before the storm which is coming as surely as the dawn and the Mississippi River flows south to the Gulf of Mexico - not if, only a questio of when and how bad.
7
China is now suggesting Coronavirus is spread via aerosol mechanism, (although being debated by Australian scientists) it does explain its apparent high reproductive rate. Xi Jinping and his team are wearing surgical masks. Does this seem odd to anyone else?
7
I see a big problem in China when Mr Xi is given a surgical mask and NOT a respirator. Surgical masks provide limited protection for the wearer. Also he is promoting the use of traditional Chinese medicine, hmm.
8
@Laura Giles The areas were undoubtedly fumigated just before he arrived.
4
@Laura Giles He wouldn't be wearing a respirator when his citizens are wearing only surgical masks. It was a calculated move by the communist party.
4
@Laura Giles He wouldn't wear a respirator in public, when his citizens are wearing only surgical masks. That was a calculated move by the communist party.
CDC director just said in a press conference that China is now beyond containment. Perhaps the first official response we've heard thus far that indicates just how severe this is. The right move for Beijing is to admit they have lost control and accept any and all form of international assistance.
66
@Joe C
That’s not how this works. How this works is, obtain power, then do everything in power to keep that power even if it kills everyone. That’s how authoritarian leaders work. Xi Jinping would rather everyone die in a global pandemic, as long as he gets to die as president.
And that’s what makes authoritarians and tyrants so dangerous. They have a complete egotism and narcissism that tells them if they can’t be in charge, then they’ll make sure there isn’t a planet left to be in charge of.
31
@Joe C
I would agree but the Communist Party is led by ego maniacs. Hopefully it leads to revolution.
4
@Austin Ouellette Sounds just like the current resident of the White House.
6
"You're doing a heckuva job, Xi-ie." Why you don't close your own national borders and get all the help you can from the CDC, WHO, French, British, Germans, and Russians is unfathomable, and putting the world at risk.
20
Indeed, Earth First would have been the wisest approach. A bold new Internationalism.
1
I recommend that Xi grab a Sharpie, circle a remote island in the China Sea and tell everyone not to worry because the virus is headed for that island. Then post a Facebook story that the virus is just fake news planted by Democrats in order to harm his administration. It’s called trumpifying. Works like a charm.
93
Unit 731 conducted chemical or biological warfare across major Chinese cities, including Wuhan, from 1937 until 1945. Plague, viruses, pox, exotic toxins, etc., were the products of Japan's version of the Manhattan Project, but for chem-bio weapons. Run by top-notch Tokyo University, Royal family, and national industry elite, Unit 731 ran a smorgasbord of outlawed bio weapons that were used in the field of battle in China. Flea bombs for plague, virus, etc. This is all well known, like the ballon bombs carrying cowpox virus to the US West coast. Could it be possible that some of these unique viruses in China are the off-spring of man-engineered viruses released on the populace some seventy or eighty years ago during WWII?
6
@Beigun No. The science regarding the source of the coronaviruses (SARS & this new one, as well as MERS) is well established and is well described in open, validated scientific literature. But your comments on the criminal activities of the Japanese war machine are spot-on, and let's also note that the perpetrators were not punished.
9
@Beigun It's possible, especially as bats and vultures have amazing immune systems so they could be infected and continue carrying the pathogen. But without evidence, it's pure speculation. You could make a movie about it for sure.
2
@Beigun No - the lack of virulence (it only kills around 2 to 3 percent of those infected and only 20% of infected patients progress to acute respiratory distress. No 2019-nCoV is very likely a naturally occuring zoonotic pathogen which has mutated from its host animal (take your pick - pangolins, bats on to chickens, camels, pigs and the on to humans. Long before Unit 731, the caravan using the Silk Road brought Yersinia pestis to Constantinople and onto Venice and Genoa and onto all of Europe. Most pandemics whether Anthrax. Ebola, Marburg, Smallpox of the Black Death are not man made. There are very nasty little bugs out there just waiting for an opportunity to jump species (TB, Venereal Diseases and HIV for example) and emerge as a human pandemic. In fact, the Spanish Influenza epidemic of 1919-20 likely began in pigs and chickens and mutated into a highly virulent avian/swine flu which infected humans and killed 50 million around the globe - probably many more. We are always living on borrowed time when it comes to emerging pandemic threats.
6
I don't know where the greatness of Americans lies?
Are they building their own happiness on the pain of others. Is that what makes Americans great again?
When the U.S. is suffering from natural disasters, diseases and financial storms, countries around the world came to the rescue and buy U.S. Treasury bonds to support their financial storms.
Every country has offered a helping hand to the United States, and no one has accused the United States of being a disease and a global economic storm maker.
Is not the strength of Americans building their own happiness on the pain of others.
Is this the greatness of Americans?
The American government is really schizophrenic!
Don't worry! We cheer for China. We also believe that the perseverance of the Chinese people will definitely overcome this disease.
Cheer up, China ! Cheer up, Wuhan !
10
@Susan Tung The U.S CDc offered to send people to help, the Chinese government did not accept the offer. A Chinese doctor made pleas about this virus and he was arrested.
What exactly is the U.S. supposed to do when the Chinese government refuses outside help and steps on their own people that warned about this virus?
29
@Susan Tung I sympathize with your sentiments here, given that we currently have a sociopath in the White House who has created an inner circle of the dimmest and most malevolent. For the secretary of commerce Wilbur Ross to state that the coronavirus may be beneficial to the US in bringing jobs back to the country is indeed unconscionable and reprehensible. However, the US also has thousands of non-political professionals doing their jobs well, just like the late Dr. Li Wenliang of Wuhan. News reports I've seen have stated that the CDC in Atlanta has offered assistance for some weeks now and has not received a response from the Chinese government. Finally, many of us who do not support this administration wish nothing but the best for the Chinese people. I have many friends there and have contacted a number of them to see how they are doing and voice my support. Please know that interpersonal connections are always stronger and more sincere than relations between governments.
27
@Susan Tung
Your statement is exact what People's Daily and other party controlled media have been saying.
10
And yet again today, China’s and America’s stock market keeps going up even thought the second largest economy is shut down, manufactures around the world cannot get supplies, factories are closed, our companies and their’s can’t sell products and oh yeah hundreds of thousands of people are quarantined and thousands are dying with no vaccine or solution yet found.
I’m also told by real estate analysts they are becoming more worried that the Chinese don’t want to invest in US housing hosing anymore because they simple cannot get to their properties during a time of crisis which may happen again and again.
It crazy to see those TV business analysts at msnbc and other stations are telling people this no big deal... this fantastic for the markets... keep making us rich... something really ugly and awful happening right now with the stock markets here and in China. This whole thing just shows again that at the end of the day...money is more than people in this world.
24
The stock market is up because:
1. The Federal Reserve keeps stimulating the economy to the tune of $100 Billion per month. (Yes, this will need to be repaid; and yes, the Fed Reserve balance sheets has accumulated > $4 Trillion of such!)
2. Everyone expects China to also keep pumping money into its economy.
3. Given global issues, economic & military, the US economy is a relatively safe haven.
None of these trends is sustainable—so prepare for the great unwinding.
11
I would have assumed that the supreme leader of China would have worn the correct type of face mask when he visited.
Shouldn't he (and his people, in the off-chance they come to his mind) be wearing the N-95 type?
10
With another Coronavirus emanating from China, the world has to play a delicate game with Xi, to convince him to stop being embarrassed, and admit he has a serious epidemic and take help from others.
Let's applaud the WHO's leadership for having overcome China's reticence in letting them help. China now lets the WHO offer strategic expertise, though strangely China still refuses tactical help. Without the WHO's help, this contagion will kill thousands and cause a worldwide economic downturn.
The problem is two-fold:
(1) Xi's policies:
The WHO is helping, as much Xi lets them. They are informing China of best practices. Hopefully China listens.
(2) China's "wet meat-markets" (which Xi's policies permit):
Dr. Ian Lipkin, Columbia University's world-expert epidemiologist, helped China with its 2003 SARS epidemic. He has said that China must shutdown all wet meat-markets, where live animals are slaughtered in front of customers wanting fresh butchered meat. These markets are called "wet" because blood (and thus water to wash away potentially infectious blood) is prevalent.
Under Xi, China's poorest are also under social pressure to "rise". Eating meat is one indication of one's social class. With prices of safe meats like pork skyrocketing in China, its underclass must buy lower-quality meats at wet markets. Meat from bats, which are often infected with virii, is sold in Wuhan, China. This is believed to have caused this pandemic, which began there just over 2 months ago.
18
Fingers are crossed all over the world, because before the day before the quarantine of Wuhan, millions of people fled, many got on Airplanes flying to areas where relatives live, thousands probably came to the United States, i hope officials here are monitoring them. Last Monday all flights from China were stopped, which means by this time next week we will know if we dodged a bullet. In China police and the army are literally going from house to house looking for these people, in China it is against the law to house these "Wuhan refugees" who basically put millions in danger. I have all the sympathy, but there is an obligation when something likes this happens to do the right thing and stay in the quarantine, rather than flee and turn something that is bad into a world wide catastrophe.
7
Another unsuitable personality type choice for a big picture job, especially in widespread crisis. Just because he can serve indefinitely doesn’t mean he should.
3
@Woo Han Solo Yeah, in the People's Republic, they don't have much of a "choice" in the matter, being a totalitarian government and all....
2
Not so worried about "climate change" now, are we?
2
That assumes the world already has something like a two-child policy in place — a maximum of two American kids to manufacture items for at the expense of farmland. The population size aspect of climate change is definitely a factor here.
2
@Sasha "Pretty, prettttty dumb" as Larry David would say. So two disasters overstretch your mind? What if a third one comes along?
12
@Sasha - As the climate of the planet deteriorates, food supplies will be effected, and more people will be harvesting more of these "exotic appetite" animals that will create even stranger Viruses. Droughts will destroy food supplies, causing the migration of rural citizens to more densely populated urban areas where disease will spread more rapidly. Take a look at the rapid transmission of the virus on the densely occupied cruise ship. Speaking strictly for myself I do not "worry" about climate change, I am merely concerned about it for the future of the planet. Climate change, pandemics, extinction are all interconnected. This planet, this great cruise ship that we all inhabit has no president that can fly a jumbo jet in to wisk us off to a military base for a 14 day incubation. Worry accomplishes nothing.
1
As an infectious disease practitioner this is the first time I am actually very concerned. This infection is far more infectious than anyone is admitting. If one asymptotic cruise ship passenger can cause the infection of well over 100 people (and increasing daily), imagine what this will do in other countries? I do not feel people understand the gravity or severity of this outbreak. Both the WHO and CDC have lost all credibility by downplaying this danger. This is in the US but will take approximately another month before becoming noticeable. At which point will not be containable.
127
@Dr.E
I share your concern. The UK government has been beyond cavalier with regard to overseas visitors coming into the country from China and not imposing quarantine controls until the last 7 days. There have been over 1,400 visitors from China which have entered the UK in the first 2 weeks in January and none of these visitors were quarantined.
I am not xenophobic but any public health system needs to take basic precautions to try and stop the transmission of the coronavirus. The NHS does not have spare beds to deal with desperately ill people in large numbers, who are infected with the coronavirus and particularly if this requires isolation of these patients.
The UK Tory government is not being honest about this crisis and keeps putting out propaganda that the risk from the coronavirus remains low.
6
@Dr.E
I agree wholeheartedly. I believe this disease is spread way easier than China and others have let on. Just read the details about the British man and how he infected so many before he even became symptomatic.
The cruise ships and their cabin air circulation systems may be virus distributors. Same with any kind of high rise housing.
I don’t think China nor the UK have taken draconian measures, rather I think the rest of the world is underplaying the potential of the deadliness and contagiousness of this virus.
I also think the stats in China are skewed as I believe with so many dying at home untested, the true statistics are not accurate.
The whole world should be on high alert.
17
@Dr.E
So far 10 imported cases have produced 2 home grown infections (transfers). Please explain how that math is supposed to create an epidemic?
5
It's impossible not to marvel at China's broad and aggressive domestic response directed by the provincial level governments to restrict movement, restrict transportation, and restrict business for a period of time combined with the voluntary dutiful cooperation of its 1.3 billion citizens who are in the majority quietly staying at home these weeks to let the virus pass.
This model response is already being hailed by the international community as a remarkable unprecedented response setting a new standard in understanding what is possible for future outbreaks in whatever country they may occur
There's a strange senseless bullying extremism and activism in today's society and you should do your best to avoid it and not be a part of it.
It is fomented by a small group of extremist activists while definitely not supported by your average mainstream person who is simply exhausted by their outrage-inducing antics.
It's not called the China virus and neither was H1N1 called the American virus.
Like I said, something's not right with the way humanity is responding to what's happening here.
It needs to stop. This vicious, political, xenophobic racist attacks and smearing of all things on China needs to stop.It's really not helping anyone in the political corridors of Washington nor is it doing anything to help the man on the street who is just concerned with taking care of his family.
The xenophobia needs to stop now.
8
Too bad they didn't start all their control programs in December when the now deceased hero ophthalmologist was told to shut his mouth. Communists believe they can control everything and everyone until -- suddenly -- they cannot. The veil is lifted and everyone sees the little scared man behind the curtain frantically pulling oval his levers.
@Susan Tung
12
No actually it's quite possible not to.
1
True. And Trump and his supporters admire them.
4
This PR campaign is the equivalent to when Mayoral candidate Montgomery Burns (Simpson's) attempted to eat the 3-eyed fish created by poison from his plant. He spat his first bite it across the room.
Churchill changed course during the London Fog event. I don't think President Xi has it in him to do what is necessary of a leader and implement standards, regulations and organizations to keep this from happening again.
10
I notice he's wearing the cheap surgical mask that is nowhere near as effective as the N95 masks. You'd think one of the most powerful leaders in the world would wear a ventilator mask or at least the N95 mask. After seeing this picture, I would not be surprised if he gets infected at some point.
6
That’s because the mask is just for show, or it’s placebo.
8
Not in any way to diminish the suffering from and impact of the Wuhan coronavirus, but forperspective I would note the C.D.C. estimates that up to 42.9 million people got sick during the 2018-2019 flu season, 647,000 people were hospitalized and 61,200 died. In the current season, half over, it is estimated there have been at least 22 million flu illnesses, 210,000 hospitalizations and 12,000 deaths from flu.
While we appropriately pay serious attention to the evolution of Wuhan coronavirus, let us not let it cloud out the ongoing risks from flu and the need to act accordingly. If quarantining cities in China, cruise ships, and others is sensible and legitimate, maybe we should consider the same for anti-vaxxers here in America.
As with the 40,000 annual deaths in vehicle crashes, the flu is not a "sexy" news story, so does not get nearly the coverage deserved. On the other hand, the Wuhan coronavirus, makes for excellent clickbait. That is not to deny the legitimate stories, many hooked to the unknown elements. Novelty and the unknown get attention, until what was once novel becomes the new normal. That's human nature. Think of suicide bombers. In the mid 2000s when they started happening as more than a rare "curiosity", each had huge news coverage, complete with psychological "analyses", biographies, detailed descriptions, etc. Now when there is a suicide bombing, it is simply covered as is any other bombing, "suicide" simply being consigned to being an adjective.
3
@Steve Fankuchen Dr. Fauci of the NIH discredited comparisons to the flu over a week ago. There is a vaccine for the flu. There is no vaccine for this. The flu has an estimated mortality rate of around 0.1%, we are looking at estimates ranging anywhere from 2% to 3% and higher for this coronavirus. Apply that number to the number of people who get the flu each year and you will immediately see what the problem is, and keep in mind this has the ability to strain health care systems that are already trying to deal with existing flu cases. Perspective is required.
The comparison to suicide bombings: are you suggesting we just roll over and accept them as normal along with this virus? Humans have innate capabilities to stop these things, it's a shame you seem to have given up. No, I do not think suicide bombings are normal, they are never "just another bombing" as far as I'm concerned. And no, I do not consider this virus to be "just another flu" - because it's not. It's a deadly coronavirus spreading rapidly. Currently half of China is shut down because of it.
25
@Joe C
Joe, thank you for engaging. I am sorry if I was not clear. I was not comparing flu to the Wuhan coronavirus. What I was trying to note is how little attention is paid to the yearly devastation of flu.
As to suicide bombers: I think if you look at the newspaper coverage of suicide bombings in the mid-2000s and compare it to coverage now, you will see a large difference. In any case, I expect drones and self-driving cars will put suicide bombers out of business.
1
I don't believe suicide bombings are infectious, but you may know better.
4
Pangolins Are Suspected as a Potential Coronavirus Host.
The revenge of the endangered species organized by eco warriors trying to save them.
I understand the death caused by the newly discovered and introduced Rhino virus, which is transmitted by just touching Rhino horn, is excruciating. Causing pain so unbearable that must, must to save your life, cut off the member that you had wished to enhance.
15
The numbers for the last 8 days do show a slowing of the rate of new cases. From a high of 22% down to 9% per day. That's what I follow.
6
@Mark The very steady change in the absolute growth rather than percentage suggests that there is a testing bottleneck.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/09/world/asia/china-coronavirus-tests.html
13
@Mark Or they've simply reached testing capacity.
8
And all from a reliable source, the Chinese government.
10
Xi Jinping seems to be near Donald Trump in his innate inability to show any humble humane empathy for human fears and suffering.
Probably stemming from their privileged powerful winning the genetic human daddy lottery.
Mr Xi the son of a Chinese Long March legend father purged by Mao Zedong and resurrected by Deng Xiaoping. Trump from his New York City real estate baron daddy whose wealth shielded him from the worst losing businessman in America over a ten year period
At least Mr. Xi didn't throw them rolls of paper towels. And his wife didn't do a foolish messaged fashion model walk.
21
The unprecedented amount of sulfur dioxide over Wuhan and Chongqing is alarming and requires investigation. See Taiwan News link:
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3874013
Other news sources and NASA have recorded these alarmingly high levels. It is difficult to believe this is simply medical waste or garbage. Especially if the peak amounts of SO2 are occurring at 4 AM local time in cities that have been virtually closed down with no vehicles on the road or factories running, except for perhaps incinerators. If deceased individuals are not allowed a funeral and are being taken straight to incinerators, then it is likely that the mortality rate is significantly higher than what is being reported by the Chinese government. See NYT article about Bella Zhang:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/09/world/asia/coronavirus-family-china.html
36
@Michelle Looking at the SO2 levels in China right now, and nothing appears to set Wuhan apart from many other areas.
While I agree it's worth investigating, I'm not very concerned at this time. It's all too easy to whip up a terrifying contour map.
2
@Michelle
Out of all the news, this is the most disturbing.
1
Xi Jinping appeared in public and the optics of the appearance may appease some of the public's anger...
But he didn't throw rolls of paper towels into a crowd of local residents as Mr Trump did to people affected by Hurricane Maria in San Juan, Puerto Rico on Oct. 3, 2017.
10
I worry it’s here. My kid is sick... doc can’t see her until tomorrow and mentioned how busy they are.
I went to a pta meeting today and heard a ton of hacking coughs.
Can’t help but wonder....
4
@GWE The odds of your kids having the 2019-nCov are slim to none. It's peak regular flu season. Don't spread panic where there is none.
7
@GWE likely the seasonal flu. Make sure you have your flu shot.
4
China’s central government is showing major flaws. Time for Xi to flee.
4
A lot is now known about the virus, but a lot is NOT yet known as well.
Fellow readers.. do not just read the summary article here at the NYT we are all commenting in... take quality time to also read this article on the NYT today: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/10/opinion/coronavirus-china-research.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
It is objective, fair, honest, and transparent.. and lacking in any of the various internet rumor storms and attacks on China over this virus outbreak.
2
@Chuck & readers, beware!
The article you cite is an "opinion" piece, by an epidemiologist living in China, and allied with the Chinese gov't.
That opinion piece's author said: "In magnitude, scale and velocity, 2019-nCoV is too big a problem for any one team to solve. On Monday, China recorded its largest single-day surge of deaths, at 97, pushing the total reported dead worldwide to 910, with more than 40,500 people infected on four continents."
This is incorrect. When this outbreak began in December, it was NOT "too big a problem for any one team to solve". The 2019-nCoV is less virulent than SARS & MERS, all three of which began in China.
In each Coronavirus epidemic, China's government was slow to act and slow to admit the seriousness. China's government, in each case, tried to initially hide the extent of the problem. This occurred again this time, from December 2019 to January 2020 (for 2 months)! Only recently, in February, did China allow the WHO to enter China to examine/advise them -- though only strategically. Strangely, China still refuses tactical (on the ground) help.
All 3 coronavirii went pandemic because of China's slow response, desire to hide the severity, and the "wet markets" still prevalent in China. Columbia Univ's Dr. Ian Lipkin, a world-expert epidemiologist who helped China slow SARS, repeatedly told China to remove its wet markets, where live animals are butchered for their meat. He says wet-markets are dangerous places for people.
13
Replete?
Let me help.
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/replete
Dictionary is your friend.
I can't believe Xi; the totalitarian leader is in hiding during a virus outbreak when his country is on lock down.
4
@NDV Seems to be a wise man. Anyway, only the province of Hubei is in "lockdown". The rest of the nation is extremely worried, despite the wisdom of Mr. Xi and his advisors.
1
The interesting thing is that many of the passengers evacuated off the Diamond Princess the ship quarantined in Japan, show no symptoms at all, some have said; ' It doesn't even feel like a cold, i wouldn't even know i was sick, yet i have tested positive for the virus." That ship, in many ways is giving scientist valuable real time information about this virus than they could have learned in months any other way. The only way to navigate this emergency is through accurate knowledge rather than hysteria that comes from salacious headlines and under-reporting. In Japan right now are 23 Americans who can give the best and most accurate down to the second news about the virus, since they have it, why can't the Times contact one of them and get the real info, rather than people giving us news in bits and pieces from a world away.
8
@Lonnie
In some cases.. and it applies to this current novel virus.. infection is mild and the patient appears to be asymptomatic, or mild symptoms. Said patients are very likely infectious though.. and others may not have mild symptoms and reactions.
There have been some reports of an infected patient appearing to be getting better, and then days later falling into life threatening pneumonia. This is probably the immune system of said patient over-reacting and triggering what is known as a cytokine storm in the lungs.. where the immune system response overwhelms the lungs which then build up fluids and the patient can actually drown in their own body fluids.
Asymptomatic or mild symptomatic patients are a real and significant danger and concern to the rest of the population..at least until this virus is fully characterized by health professionals and proper treatment protocols are established from testing and analysis of what works and what does not work.
26
The central government is oppressive and evil. But in a war between Coronavirus and Beijing, I hope Beijing wins.
3
China must educate its people beyond the superstitions that prompt them to eat rare, wild animals.
'Eating monkey brains makes you smarter'
'Eating powdered Rhino horn cures Erectile Dysfunction'
'Eating the raw liver from a bat will cleanse the blood'
...and so forth.
Such superstitions are endemic throughout China--even in the better-educated, professional communities.
Recently, the Junta has insisted that hospitals throughout China include the use of Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) in treating the novel coronavirus, but 'Chinese Medicine' needs to be brought under the fold of modern science.
Although Traditional Chinese Medicine is fraught with superstition-based treatments, it has also proven to be quite beneficial--giving us the base ingredients for the 'Tamiflu' drug, as well as the often beneficial acupuncture and acupressure therapies.
I spent a large part of my life in China. I pray they soon find relief from this dreadful, vicious disease and future such viruses, but education will be a key part of this going forward.
16
@SAJP Your comment is misleading at best. While I don't claim to know about every "superstition" I will say that I have never heard of eating raw bat liver. Furthermore, having a "superstition" or folk belief is not the same as acting on it. So, while people may have heard that powdered rhino horn helps ED, they are not necessarily seeking it out and may be happy taking Viagra or the equivalent. And, we can't call it "superstition" until we show, scientifically, that it doesn't work. While I can't speak to the intention, comments like this reinforce stereotypes in an unhealthy way.
2
@SAJP I'm Chinese, we all know monkey brain is a joke, Viagra is developed to help Erectile, bat is symbol of fortune, yes, this is the only superstition that you mentioned close to but not eat the bat liver. We won't eat fortune, we want fortune stay with us.
People get sick of Corona virus is not because of any Chinese eat bat. You soon will have an answer from USA.
The problem of China is not Education, is CCP.
5
@nfsravens Apart from the inaction of the CCP Junta, the biggest problem is Denial. As I ate "Drunken Shrimp" with city officials from Nanjing, the table next to us was eating monkey brain.
Becoming defensive and denying that this happens and trying to hide it from the people is the worst problem by far, and is the main problem with the Junta.
China needs to face these problems head on instead of hiding from them. As it stands, this virus is the result of eating the raw meat from a wild animal in Wuhan because it is believed to have some sort of 'magical' properties.
4
The CDC reported that an estimated 42.9 million people had the flu during the 2018-2019 flu season, 647,000 people were hospitalized, and 61,200 deaths occurred. The longest flu season in a decade.
And yet we are still waiting for the FDA to negotiate OTC nonprescription status for Tamiflu.
4
@DeMossMD
And your point is?
5
The longer this situation goes on China, the weaker Xi Jinping gets. The prime directive of the Chinese Communist Party is "order" by any means necessary, and the coronavirus is a challenge to order. It cannot be controlled and intimidated like humans, like trying to contain water in a closed fist. Not possible.
This event has the potential to break the stranglehold of the Communist Party.
2
@MrDeepState:
Not really.
On their own pandemics always reach a critical mass, then an equilibrium, then wane into low-frequency pockets. 2019-nCoV may kill thousands or millions who are the most susceptible, but eventually it WILL subside to small pockets of humans. It will always remain within the greater animal kingdom.
The world wants to minimize the "thousands or millions" who would naturally die, if it were left to run its natural unchecked course.
We must now cajole China to follow world-experts until this is curtailed -- since it was their initially slow and poor response that let it become a worldwide pandemic.
2
I wish that instead of talking about what people shouldn't be doing, like shaking hands, Xi would be talking about what he and his government could be doing; Telling the truth to the international community, acting urgently at the start of crises, regulating food markets, and the like.
108
@Detective Frank Drebin This whole story echoes the initial Chernobyl accident coverup.
9
@Detective Frank Drebin
Would you even take time to objectively read such a disclosure if they did?
I doubt it. Most Americans have to short an attention span to do so, and are more interested in finding and spreading sensational internet rumors and bashing China over all of this.
And as most world health organizations have stated, including China's.. this outbreak is too big a task to characterize and contain by any one nation.
If you really want to know the scientific understanding to date on this virus... it's here on the NYT... and easy to find.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/10/opinion/coronavirus-china-research.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
And the current scientific body of knowledge on this virus and it's outbreak and infection characteristics is documented in The Lancet , here: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30260-9/fulltext
4
@Detective Frank Drebin : Why not both?
1
the june, 2019 european heat wave killed more than 560 people; the july 2019 european heat wave killed another 870 people, along with thousands of livestock.
that's a total of 1430 deaths due to climate change.
do you recall coverage and commentary about those events anything like the hysterical focus being put on the CV outbreak, which has killed (as of today) only 900?
human epidemics of animal based viruses are due to encroachment of the human population into animal habitats. so they will only increase with population increase.
but i make a prediction: deaths from climate caused heat waves will always outstrip deaths from vertebrate based viruses, year after year, over the foreseeable future. both are part of the "new normal".
12
@drollere : Climate change is a long, slow emergency. The heat waves in Europe weren't going to "spread" around the world in a matter of months, even if climate change will impact the planet more severely with each passing year.
Also, what happened in Europe wasn't directly impacting what would happen here, even if the underlying cause is also causing other problems here.
Should the media be giving climate change better coverage? Absolutely. And I believe they did with the Australia fires. And I do recall there being some significant coverage of the European heat waves as well.
5
@Jackson Are you aware that many central and northern European homes and businesses do not have air conditioning? Their climate has generally been mild enough to not require it.
The times, they are a changin'.
7
Excepting that you're quoting figures at the end of that particular phenomenon and we're in the middle of this phenomenon and the figures being quoted by the Chinese are very much in question. Consequently, you're highly erroneous use of data has led you to a highly erroneous conclusion.
1
When will the US start taking this virus seriously? I read today that the UK has along with other countries.
Is this another indication our healthcare system is failing us?
6
@wihikr
Where I live, in northern California.. I can assure you that healthcare facilities and county healthcare organizations are taking matters very seriously and have uppgraded their patient intake and treatment protocols accordingly.
So.. I don't know what your point is really.. other than being uninformed as to what your local health departments and healthcare providers are doing, and why.
6
@Chuck
I don’t think that @wihikr was referring to the medical facilities and communities, rather the US government’s role in addressing the potential of a huge infection rate.
1
I’ve been trying to follow the news coverage of this epidemic for some time and know all its economic symptoms but not a clue as to the physical illness symptoms or treatment procedures to prevent death from it. Considering the world we now live in, why doesn’t that surprise me.
3
@John Doe
Then you are not looking, to be honest.
What you seek, beyond economic impact which nobody knows at this point, is readily available by just reading the NYT online here.
I suggest you start here: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/10/opinion/coronavirus-china-research.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
3
A bullet-point article on what every U.S. Citizen should do to prepare in advance for the spread of this Coronavirus right now would be helpful.
Preparation prevents panic later on.
22
Much Chinaphobic comments but the fact remains that the Chinese government makes impressive efforts.
The foreign press is more neutral
"How do you build two hospitals for corona patients within days? "The Chinese mobilized their forces extremely quickly"
NZZ, Switzerland, today
4
It’s not Chinaphobic to wish that the Chinese people weren’t led by a dishonest dictator.
5
@talesofgenji Because they really didn't build "hospitals"? Based on what I've read, the buildings are prefab warehouses/prisons, very likely originally designed as holding facilities for people in need of "re-education"--think Uyghurs.
Think about it--an actual hospital from scratch in ten days? Really?
8
In looking at current flight data-planes in the sky over China now, at https://www.flightradar24.com/QTR815/23d1c56c,
it seems that flights are going from Beijing and other Chinese cities to Hong Kong and Hong Kong presently has flights to Everywhere-LAX, LHR, Seoul, Helsinki. That seems short sighted. Surely this will be the route that infection spreads. Also, it seems that the majority of flights to and from China are from Africa right now-as if no halting to those routes has occurred. Africa too has flights to Everywhere!
57
I can’t imagine the feeling of seeing people die. Terrible.
4
The Chinese are known for lying and especially the current regime. I would expect that the actual casualties are several times higher than is being admitted.
23
@Bill Langeman
lie you say?
as of Dec. 16 2019...
President Trump has made 15,413 false or misleading claims
7
I would not argue with you that President Trump is known for making false and misleading statements as is the Chinese nation... both are true.
4
The level of xenophobia in the comments toward the Chinese is really odd from the country that spawned the Spanish Flu of 1918 (USA) that killed a hundred thousand times as many people as the coronavirus has.
8
@Julie The Spanish Flu was first detected in the US but it did not originate here.
Current speculation is that the Spanish Flu originated in northern China.
11
@Julie
Agreed.
Welcome to Amercians... ignorant, judgemental, and very tribal and xenophobic.. form the perspective of a national baseline.
Thank God that medial professionals and the organizations they work in are not this way.
8
@Margrethe
Last I read, the Spanish fly started in the midwest before spreading to New York.
1
For pandemic outbreaks, the mainstream medium-NYt included quoted the Mers, Sars, Spanish flu as a comparison. The Swine flu pandemic originated in Mexico and the US inflected at least 1m+ people and 12000+ death(see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic_in_the_United_States) had been conveniently and selectedly left out as an example. Why?
4
@tedc
1) it was fairly small in breakout, terms AND was a flu virus, which is well characterized in terms of treatment and containment.
2) it was NOT a coronavirus... in particular a new novel coronavirus with a high incidence of life threatening atypical pneumonia.
Do you understand now?
3
I think the world has just seen the beginning of this disease. % million people fled Wuhan before the lockdown and god know where they are now, must be all over the world. The Chinese TV report on the virus never fail to praise the great leader's effort on extinguishing the virus and the media, while suppressing internet posting by regular folks bullied by the police started it PR campaign by reporting tons of "moving" stories of how people helping each other.
7
Where are the fires?
Pretty much anywhere else in the world, including the US, with a deadly epidemic and a huge population in quarantine, I would expect to see fires. So far, the degree of unrest in Wuhan seems surprising low. This can't last forever. They need help. They need basic necessities, food and medicine. They need to know that they are not alone. I really hope that China can keep them supplied. I really hope that the world helps. I suspect that some are hoping that they descend into anarchy, and that this might tip the scales against the communist regime that the West hates so much. But, if Wuhan breaks, containment will fail and the consequences could well be catastrophic for everyone on the planet. Let's keep this situation from really catching fire.
6
A classic case of doing too little too late. What is the regime trying to salvage？ Millions of Chinese lives？The second largest economy in the world？It has more to do with those politicians' self-interest than the well-being of the poor everyday people. The same plot is on display through out the world, including the U.S., on a daily basis.
29
NYT, have you checked this out?
https://thetaiwantimes.com/tencent-might-have-leaked-the-data-of-actual-deaths-caused-by-wuhan-virus/1489
The article said that there was a screen shot from Tencent (Google of China) that showed the number of people infected and died were much higher, and was this a print error or the actual numbers?
21
@Doodle Taiwan is a pioneer in fake news long before Trump and it cannot be trusted. The president elected can use the forged degree to obtain professorship and elected twice for the presidency showed how reliable the news is.
2
@Doodle The NYT, WaPo, CNN and just about any other media outlet in the US have probably seen that. Tencent leak and are doing their darnedest to verify. Note that many US reports indicate that the official Chinese numbers may be undercounted.
Right-wing sites in the US have taken it to the extreme and postulate some sort of zombie apocalypse in Wuhan. imo China would have been better off with transparency in the beginning. Now it's hard to ascertain where the truth lies.
4
Xi Jinping tours the wrong city, interesting optics.
22
I worry about all of the people that can no longer earn a living during this crisis. What happens when there is no money for food, rent, etc in a city of 11 million people?
20
@Cynthia
Unlike Americans... Chinese have for many decades been a savings driven society.. with one of the highest savings rates in the world.
As such.. most Chinese can easily weather an income break of 6 months or more. This is more true for urban Chinese than rural Chinese... but since this is a largely urban viral outbreak... Chinese safety nets apply.
This all WILL have an impact on the Chinese economy and GDP for 2020.. but that can and will be managed by the central government with a good degree of effectiveness.
Unlike the US.. where conservative politicians are insistent on removing any and every social safety net they can... China has a long history of safety nets for it's people in terms of housing, food, basic necessities.
18
Better worry about what's going to happen when the virus lands in the US. The CDC has been very slow to shutdown ports of entry to the US and Chinese nationals seem to be still entering the country.
8
@Ronald Weinstein -Yes, folks have been pretty apprehensive around here in the San Gabriel Valley, cancelling all the lunar New Year celebrations last week and more mask wearing than usual out and about. My concern is that people who may have arrived here illegally since December will not want to seek traditional Western medical care if they get sick and become a vector for infection. I hope the great state of California has some plan in place for this eventuality.
I'll bet Xi's visits were carefully choreographed. Anyone close to Xi was almost certainly screened ahead of time. I don't doubt for a second Xi was in any way happy about visiting hospitals during a deadly epidemic. He's dictator for life provided bat-flu doesn't kill him. I'm sure he covered as many bases as possible.
The more interesting moral dilemma is the cruise ship. I'm reminded of the C.S. Forester story where Hornblower's crew is exposed to plague. The British judgement was, yes, you are all absolutely subject to die for the safety of the fleet. You are quarantined until dead or we say so.
At the same time, you couldn't screen for plague in the 18th century. The passengers have a legitimate grievance. The question then becomes how to do you safely screen passengers when you don't know how the disease is spread. You can test for the virus. However, you might infect other passengers in the process of testing and releasing them.
Dilemma. A successful passenger egress is basically impossible. Even with better information, the logistics are daunting. I'll bet those passengers aren't going anywhere for awhile. The more things change, the more they stay the same. The Diamond Princess is flying a black flag.
33
The quarantine flag is yellow.
4
@Andy Your wording is confusing, I presume you mean "I doubt Xi was in any way happy about visiting hospitals during a deadly epidemic."
1
We should not forget the doctor who recently passed away who was charged with crimes against the state because he tried to warn of this epidemic. The same thing is happening here to our scientists at NASA, the EPA and CDC who are trying to warn us about pollution, climate change, and guns.
193
@Ernest Ciambarella wow what a stretch. what doctor died here? or was arrested?
2
@Ernest Ciambarella
So the chinese Doctor "Whistleblower" was silenced and charged with crimes.
Wow!
It sounds like Donald Trump who has just retaliated against highly revered state department defense department "whistleblowers" who courageously spoke the TRUTH, under oath, about Trump.
The TRUTH under oath....something this corrupt Donald Trump and his goon squad will NEVER DO.
39
@steph : I believe Ernest Ciambarella is referencing the silencing of high-level U.S. scientists who disagree with the "science" being peddled by the current administration.
And FWIW, that doctor's death is not being blamed on the Chinese government. He was exposed at work at the very early stage of the outbreak.
17
The British patient was carrying the virus for at least 11 days (January 22-February 1) before he took action to seek medical help. He felt well enough on Day 11 to go out to a pub. It seemed he didn't contact authorities because he felt bad, but because they called him.
28
@Clarice
Which is precisely how a localized virus outbreak becomes a pandemic.
9
@Chuck
Yes. He transmitted it to 5 people in the French Alps, causing 3 schools to close there. He may have transmitted it to people in the pub in Brighton. It also seems he transmitted it to two health care workers in Brighton. One person from the Alps brought it to his family in Mallorca. And the question remains about the status of the over 100 people who attended a business gathering with him for one gas company in Singapore. This spread outside China seems newsworthy.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/feb/10/coronavirus-live-updates-china-goes-back-to-work-as-cases-exceed-40000-latest-news
5
"Britain’s health secretary has declared the coronavirus an “imminent threat” to public health ... "
And just exactly where is the "Leader of the Free World" showing his ability to lead? All I've heard from Trump is that he spoke with President Xi a few days ago. He said that Xi told him that China had the situation under control. So Trump feels fine in simply ignoring the potential pandemic and letting other people take care of it. (Luckily, other people are doing that.)
It is amazing to me that a man that lies routinely will listen to another man who is secretive and is more than willing to suppress facts. Why isn't a liar skeptical enough to recognize lies and misrepresentations when he himself has raised that skill to a fine art.
45
@DGP
Trump will hide in the white house with a case of Purell and all the doors bared and locked from anyone not tested for the virus.
Remember.. he is not only administratively enept.. he is also a known germaphobe.
9
@DGP
"All I've heard from Trump is that he spoke with President Xi a few days ago. He said that Xi told him that China had the situation under control. So Trump feels fine in simply ignoring the potential pandemic and letting other people take care of it. (Luckily, other people are doing that.)"
If Trump truly believed Xi he probably would not have imposed total travel ban on people who have visited China in the previous two weeks (or have put the repatriated US nationals in quarantine on a military base).
1
Xi Jinping is criticized when he "disappears' from view for a few days...Xii Jinping is criticized for appearing at a hospital/office today...we ought to focus on the plight of the unfortunate Chinese citizens rather than on the trivial optics.
6
@Confucius
EXACTLY.
But I'm sure we can totally trust that China is telling the truth because Trump told us he trusts Xi. Wait, what's that, our Justice Dept. just charged members of the Chinese military for stealing the online identities of 145 million Americans, including our Social Security numbers?
I'm sure there is no problem, and with Trump at the helm, we can be sure we're getting the truth and a well oiled machine capable of addressing any problems. (sarcasm)
47
@paula
"It under control and a world away." —Donald J. Trump
4
A cruise ship is an infection incubator not a quarantine facility. It is not engineered for quarantine, and its predictable that even the best of efforts will fall short. Those people need to be evacuated and placed in real quarantine facilities before they all get sick. The inaction and incompetence of the Japanese government will go down in history as a stain of shame on that country. Trump get our citizens of that ship, and home. If you can do it for Americans in Wuhan you can do it for those on this ship.
64
@Ivan
Are you a viral infection specialist, or quarantine specialist?
Yeah.. I didn't think so.... so maybe take your fear mongering and put it somewhere else.
You assume that Japan can just snap their fingers and have a 3700 bed quarantine center up and ready to go in proximity to the cruise ship. Or that they can safely transport 3700 people in quarantine protocols from one location (the ship) to another location safely without risk to local Japanese populations.
Mindless arrogance and ignorance at play here. How about we let professionals make decisions here.. not arm chair opinion peddlers on a comment section at the NYT?
8
The western press have not reported that Ethiopian Airlines is still flying regularly in and out of China with thousands of Chinese travelers pouring into Ethiopia, and therefore the African continent, weekly.
Some countries have yet to have any cases and therefore are complacent, or maybe they are kowtowing to their money boss in China. They should take note on what happened in Singapore, UK, Diamond Princess cruise ship where one case spread to many. The current estimate of 1:2 multiplier is clearly not accurate in relation to these cases.
While we should be concerned about how travel restrictions impact businesses and economy in general, let's keep in mind a bigger outbreak will do even more damage, besides more lives lost.
25
I loathe Trump but I do appreciate his hardline stance where Chinese trade imbalances, Huawei's 5G bid, and the threat of the coronavirus is concerned. We have an open border situation here in Canada which is most worrisome given the number of planes landing daily from China. Never thought I would say this, but perhaps it's time for Trump to teach Trudeau another "etiquette lesson."
6
I am wondering if PrEP can be used as a preventive measure since certain HIV drugs seem working on some patients.
7
Interesting idea!
Shaking hands should probably stop.
9
@mark
WHO staff working in and around the efforts to stop Ebola do elbow bumps as greetings.
3
@mark
It would be helpful for every news media across this country to print a list of 5 simple activities for every citizen to do every day to prevent transmitting any and all viruses.
5
@mark
Human to human physical contact without proper health protocols.... not just hand shaking.
Until the exact methods and extent (the R2) is properly characterized by health organizations... prudence dictates over reaction in terms of human to human contact.
Keep in mind.. initially health organizations concluded that SARS had a projected mortality rate of 2% (the same current speculation with this coronavirus). However, in Hong Kong during SARS.. they found the mortality rate to be 17%!
To fellow readers and commentors.. make sure you read this NYT opinion piece on the site today: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/10/opinion/coronavirus-china-research.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
It speaks to the knowns and unknowns at this point on this particular virus.
2
Traditionally in the east and Far East people greet each other with hands folded and a slight head bow. There’s no hand shake hug or kisses. Perhaps this was a polite way to keep bugs off each other especially in the hot tropics.
9
@petey tonei It was the other way around...handshakes are a vestige of showing that one held no concealed-in-hand weapon, therefore...'friendly.'
So much for THAT display.
2
TAIPEI (Taiwan News) — The China Guangzhou Center for Disease Control and Prevention said recently that a DNA sample collected from the door handle at the home of a novel coronavirus patient tested positive for the disease.
This instance in the southern Chinese province is the first time the virus has been detected outside the body of a patient , so health experts are advising people to be diligent about hand hygiene.
Zhang Zhoubin (張周斌), deputy director of the Guangzhou Center for Disease Control and Prevention, told local media that the virus is primarily spread through airborne droplets and can also be transmitted through direct or indirect contact with infected objects. People will expose themselves to an increased risk of infection if they eat or rub their eyes after touching with their hands objects compromised by the virus.
Another health official in Beijing said at a press briefing on Monday (Feb. 3) that the virus can survive on indoor surfaces for up to five days.
Zhang advises that cellphone displays, computer mouses and keyboards, and faucets all should be diligently sanitized to avoid getting sick.
7
Highly doubt dictator Xi other than a photo op has done much to help all the poor in China. In fact this planet is about to see what happens when you have ruthless criminals in power and it's not going to be pleasant.
Vote.
20
Did anyone else focus on the picture of the workers producing the surgical masks? While bundled in clean suits and face masks, none are wearing gloves. They are handling the face masks with their bare hands before wrapping them in plastic packaging. Strange.
43
@John Cromwell -easier to wash bare hands every 10 minutes than wash vinyl gloves (I’ve tried)!
4
@John Cromwell
Yep, noticed that. One of the many reasons this n-CoV will continue to spread.
1
@John Cromwell
You clearly have not thought this through very well.
Note that they cannot, as suited up, easily spread any virus from their lungs, mouth, nose... the primary vector point in human to human infection.
They, like in any clean room operation, would have performed rigorous cleaning and disinfecting of body before suiting up in full sanitary gear up as well.
In addition, gloves in such a clean room environment would drive them to constantly being adjusting, removing gloves from sweat soaked hands inside gloves, which would encourage contamination rather then inhibit it. Whereas rigorous protocol of washing hands before touching the product being produced would be in place and enforced.
8
I hate to say this, but it seems as if a current open question is whether it can only spread in large droplets (coughing and sneezing) or by air, pushed around further distances by air current or wind. Lots of open questions about this virus. The whole thing is one worldwide science experiment.
18
@Clarice
It is sit born and can survive on the surface hot up to 5 days
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3870466
2
I don't care where Xi goes touring, as long as none of his people are allowed to come touring our country, until this virus he has unleashed is eradicated.
35
@Roberta Well unfortunately, banning Chinese tourists isn't going to do the trick. Most likely there will soon be a case like the one in Britain involving a British citizen who attended a conference in Singapore and infected people in France and in England. Some US tourist or conference attendee who never set foot in or near China, who never dreamed he/she could possibly have the virus will bring it back home to the good ol' USA. Sooner rather than later I'm guessing.
4
Is it fair to compare this new coronavirus with the typical flu? I often hear people saying that the annual deaths from the flu are far greater in number than this coronavirus therefore there’s no need to be alarmed. I’m confused.
11
@Paco Manu The death rate from the flu is on the order of 0.1%, while people are estimating a rate of 2% from the coronavirus. If that estimate is accurate, then if the virus becomes as widespread as the flu it will cause more than twenty times as many deaths.
7
@Paco Manu I don't know if the typical flue would caused 900 people to died in a short period of 6 weeks? That would be alarming for any country. The typical flu death rate is 0.003% while this one currently sits at 2-3% (if the Chinese government is reporting real number).
1
@Paco Manu
Short answer. No. The Flu is an annual event. It kills many people. There are vaccines for the Flu and anti viral medicine. There would be less people dying from the Flu if more people got the shot.
Novel Corona Virus 2019 is new, never seen before in humans. We have no herd immunity for it.There is no vaccine yet and no anti virals that work for certain. This may change. Also it is NOT a flu at all. It is a Corona Virus. Two different diseases.
The comparison of the two is a false analogy perpetuated by people with a combination of ignorance, bias and who make money writing to distract the public from reality.
If more people got the flu shot, doctors and nurses in emergency rooms would not have to be overwhelmed. Hospital services from serious flu cases would decrease and the health care insurance systems would save money.
12
CDC estimates that influenza has resulted in between 9 million – 45 million illnesses, between 140,000 – 810,000 hospitalizations and between 12,000 – 61,000 deaths annually since 2010. In the US alone.
3
@Eric
If more got the shot many more would not die get seriously ill and save billions of dollars in health care costs.
7
@Eric
And if this virus is free to roam as the flu is.... expect results at least 100-1000 times worse than the flu numbers your are peddling.
Can we PLEASE get off the flu comparisons?? They are NOT applicable here.
9
is it too late to buy stock in these mask manufacturers?
11
At this point it seems like no administration, neither the Chinese government, nor Carnival, the British-American owned cruise line, are willing to take the help of any epidemiologist of standing, nor are they sparing no expense in getting someone who understands how to plan for disasters. Or they are balancing human lives against financial loss. Color me cynical but we are not visualizing a pandemic by the Corona virus, we are facing a pandemic of absolute greed and profit. I know now if a pandemic hits anywhere, even at home here, unless you are really an important person, essentially your life is of no value.
24
@Meena
Diamond Princess is in Yokohama harbour. The cruise line will be following the instructions of Japanese public health officials.
2
It would be interesting to know more about the steps the Trump Administration is taking to fight coronavirus and how those compare with steps taken by the Obama Administration to fight Ebola. There appears to have been little reporting on Administration steps taken over the past week. Are there any?
59
@Chris Bone He just cut the budget of the CDC by 9%, so that's a start, eh?
79
@David Weintraub
Really? By executive order?
Or did a Democrat House somehow go along with the alleged cut?
1
We don't have a good idea of the total number of people who have been infected, so we can't know the fatality rate. That cruise ship in Yokohama Japan is sort of a controlled experiment. Everyone with symptoms is being tested and their courses followed, outside of Chinese censorship, which should give useful information the coronavirus's infectivity, severity and fatality rate, at least among a mostly adult population.
38
It is really interesting to hear how people criticize China in what it does to stop the spread of the coronavirus. I just want to suggest that if this happened in the US (and especially, in New York), there would have been hundreds of thousands of deaths already.
For one thing, US medical, transportation and other infrastructure is a mess. The medical equipment and know-how is the best but the way it is used and delivered is obsolete and inefficient.
Another reason is much simpler: any attempt to forcefully segregate a large population of really or presumably infected people would result in an outcry by the self-proclaimed 'progressives' and it would take weeks, if not months, to get a legal OK to do anything of the sort. In addition, a lot of medical professional would bluntly refuse to deal with coronavirus patients and there is nothing in the world you will be able to do about it.
As an authoritarian state, China is actually in the best position to succeed in stopping the coronavirus in the near future. Let's all cheer for them and stop writing rubbish about Chinese propaganda or empty shelves in Hong Kong food stores.
14
I get your point, but this particular wouldn’t happen in NY because there aren’t markets selling endangered pangolins alongside bats as dinner ingredients.
29
@Barma I have to say that it is just because of the censorship and the authoritarian gov in China, the whistle blowers were banned and virus spread among people being unaware of it. So you will feel lucky you that you live in a free country, where this kind of disaster will be much less possible to happen.
9
@YHM
Much less likely???
Have you been hiding under a rock?
We are watching in REAL time, this week, as Trump destroys the whistle blowers who had the guts to speak the truth under oath about his corrupt actions and abuse of power.
7
Is it safe to eat at a restaurant that does not wash its dining tables between customers? I went to the food court at my local mall yesterday, thought about the corona virus, and decided I was not really hungry.
13
@ANNE IN MAINE
Not only am I skipping eating at the mall, I'm skipping the mall entirely. And any other public place I can avoid.
17
@ANNE IN MAINE I think that it is reasonable to assume that the virus could survive on a table for at least a few hours. So, if an infected person gets virus containing secretions onto a table, the next person using the table could contract it from those secretions *if* they ingest those secretions or get them in the nose or eye. So, try to avoid having your food touch the table and try to avoid touching the table then your face.
8
@The F.A.D. The virus can survive on a surface (as they have found out on a door knob in Guantong) for up to 5 days.
1
Even though the Mortality rate from the Wuhan Novel Coronavirus might be higher than that of the common seasonal Influenza -- which also originates in China! -- it is the common flu which will kill several tens of thousands of American. For the time being, we Americans should be more concerned about that.
Perhaps it would be prudent to develop a policy which (during the Winter or Flu Season months ( severely limits entry into the U.S., for people who have recently spent time in East Asia? That is the part of the world that is the Taproot of these types of Infectious Diseases.
6
@Outerboro seasonal flu is not Originate from china, get your fact straight. we have influenza long long time ago
3
@s002
We have vaccines for the annual influenza.
The word novel means new function. And it is a Corona Virus not an Annual Flu. Although it may and does have Flu like symptoms.
I am seeing that people don't have a grounding in science and public health and hygiene when this false analogy keeps cropping up.
3
Have been trying to make sense of the growing number of cases in the cruise ship. If the man who disembarked at Hong Kong was the source then why is there not a similar number of cases in Hong Kong?
Or is it that the cases in Hong Kong have not been identified as yet and we will see a huge spike there in a week?
Or is it that this virus is indeed airborne and the confined spaces within the ship with a shared ventilation system is causing the spread?
Wish China was more transparent with information.
52
@Rajesh
There are conflicting reports coming from China about whether people can catch the virus from the air. That’s one possible explanation.
But if the food is being brought to every door by staff - who likely are not changing anything, not even gloves, between one room and another, then it’s possible the staff are bringing the virus with them.
Eventually I suspect they will have to decide to evacuate everyone on the ship and place them all in quarantine separately.
12
@Rajesh Because the man was hospitalized immediately in isolation, so it did not spread as fast and wide as on the cruise ship.Imaging sharing a same air conditioning system throughout the ship, a big incubator.That's why the number keep climbing. This is a wake up call and for me the end of cruise vacation, period.
3
@Rajesh the cruise ship is not being managed by the Chinese government, and in fact the spread of the disease in China is probably less, percentage wise, than what is happening on the Japanese cruise ship.
1
Why did he show up in the street's of Beijing? the epicenter is in Wuhan. He should take off the mask. it does not look good for the propaganda machine
26
@jim optics would be worse if he is hospitalized on a vent in a couple weeks.
3
If he didn’t visit Wuhan than what’s the point?
49
Why are there no reports from the African countries? There are over a million Chinese workers in several African countries. Are late tidal waves coming?
147
virus thrives in colder weather
4
@Jae: Two explanations.
Either: the African nations don't have the resources to test, monitor, and report the outbreaks, that likely ARE occurring.
[ Aside: This same situation occurs in the remotest underdeveloped villages of China. Thus it is likely that the true prevalence within China is being grossly undetected and Under-Reported! ]
Or: in many African countries, where China has massively funded "public works projects", China has "asked" (required) those nations to not report occurrences - at risk of losing future funding.
The reason may also be, both.
19
Putting people on cruise ships and then expressing surprise at how fast a killer virus has spread, and killed people is like putting rats in a cage, introducing a killer virus and acting surprised at their deaths. Not a time for cruise vacations to China, or anyplace else if we want to thwart a pandemic. Only Tump would suggest that the financial disaster should be taken into account. No foresight. Maybe this virus blinds those it does not kill.
72
@Wanda
Leave it to Trump... it's all about money.
Watch him attack any coronavirus whistle blowers who might suggest curtailing activity that could impact the overall economy.
5
All those empty shelves in Hong Kong show a complete lack of trust in the government.
16
Xi is a joke.
He tours Beijing where the virus is minimal, if not non-existent, for a photo-op, instead of going to Wuhan where the outbreak is actually taking place.
Sort of like when our dumbest president ever, George W. Bush, went after Saddam and Iraq in the wake of 9/11 when, in fact, it was overwhelmingly Saudis who did the deed.
213
@MIKEinNYC
He needed to be seen in public.
May not have mattered where.
7
@MIKEinNYC,unless he can heal the sick with a touch of his hand, what does it matter where he goes. Only an idiot puts their head in a hungry lion’s mouth.
7
@MIKEinNYC
yeah yeah...
He gets criticized for not being seen in public.
He makes a public appearance, and he gets criticized.
Now.. let me ask you.. is there actually anything... anything.. you would not criticize Xi for or about?
Yeah.. I know the answer.. I just want to hear you actually say it.
5
The nightmare scenarios so effectively related in movies like Contagion, is reality in these situations as exemplified by the lockdowns on entire cities, as well as cruise ships which become floating prisons. Governments work in large numbers and individuals are disposable. As a society we’re not well prepared to deal with disruptions to food and water supplies.
39
@Liberal Not Lemming
FACT: once a healthcare system is overwhelmed, and a contagion is out of control.... difficult decisions are required and made. It become full blown triage in action.
Armchair at home critics provide nothing useful in terms of addressing the problem. In fact.. they tend to make things worse because of fear based, speculative, self-reinforcing narratives.
2
@Chuck Says the armchair at-home critic.
3
Not answered in any articles I've read:
1. if someone has the symptoms of coronavirus and recovers, is that person immune from another infection because his defenses are now able to successfully fight it?
2. it seems obvious to me that the virus spreads through air because so many people are infected without touching the already-infected person. Why is anyone debating this?
119
@mshunfenthal
It is very likely that in areas with high incidences of the Coronavirus, that there would be many cases of Reciprocal Reinfection. Thus, somebody quarantined in a hospital ward or a gym flu would likely be exposed to a number of mutated strains, each slightly different from each other. When the body's immune system has to fight off multiple different strains, who can foresee what the impact will be on Mortality rates? It certainly cannot help, and may be catastrophic.
9
The most common method of transmission of a viral disease is by fomite, which is an object coated with the bodily fluid from an infected person or other organism. An example would be an infected person wipes his nose with his hand and then opens a door, using the door handle. Another person uses the same door handle with bare hand within a certain period of time and then rubs his eye or touches his food with that hand before washing it. In this case, to a non-biologist, it may seem like the virus is in the air.
The spray from a cough or sneeze from an infected person could transmit the virus to a nearby person through the air, but the micro droplets from the sneeze containing the virus don’t stay airborne very long.
32
Forgot to mention my thought on the most likely method of transmission: meal service, or food as fomite. The staff handling meal preparation and delivery are likely to be involved in transmitting the disease. Any of the staff who has been unknowingly infected, could be turning the food, utensils, or trays into a fomite, or disease vector, due to shoddy (or simply imperfect) handling techniques.
13
Couple things:
1- From what I can tell, it seems that China's quarantine measures have been helpful at containment. It is critical that we, humans across the world, not let our guard down now. Like not completing a course of antibiotic(yes, I know viruses are not susceptible to antibiotics, this is an analogy) because one starts to feel better, the bugs sometimes come back with a vengeance. We have to keep the pressure on. First and foremost, this means a continuation of good hand hygiene practices the world over. It is also critical that we support Wuhan during this critical time. They must be close to the breaking point. If order breaks down there, this will spread like wildfire. We need an international relief effort.
2 - Quarantine on a ship is, a bit predictably, a terrible idea. People should be off-loaded to an island where they can get a bit of breathing room. Ships are incubators in the best of times. I hope we learn from this debacle.
66
@The F.A.D. - This article describes examples of groups of people who are catching the virus from people who didn’t visit the Wuhan area.
This is telling me that the quarantine is failing.
17
@Fred Granted, I don't really know if it's true, but there is a lot of talk about the possibility that this outbreak could have been nipped in the bud if information about it was disclosed earlier. What the Wuhan quarantine has accomplished for everyone else is setting the clock back to those early days. Quarantines don't need to be, and can't be, 100% effective. They buy time so that those outside can prepare appropriate measures e.g. encouraging hand washing, figuring out how to best manage the sick while minimizing spread, implementing better infection control measures in healthcare settings, etc.
16
@Fred
5 million people left Wuhan in the days before the quarantine. Other cities had hundreds of cases before the quarantine. In that sense, the quarantine failed before it started.
But, I do believe the quarantine efforts have significantly slowed the spread. This is important as it buys time to test antivirals, learn from case studies, and buys a few extra weeks for vaccine development (which will still be 11 months too slow). I am grateful that, for the time being, growth is linear rather than exponential.
113
I feel so bad for the people stuck on that cruise ship. Truly an SOS (save our souls) situation for them, close to land and still out at sea.
90
I bet the Chinese people are so relieved their alpha glorious leader has finally emerged from the shadows to tour the city he works in with his entourage of yes-men. I can't wait to see what other mid-level politican will be thrown under the bus since it's never the main party's fault for their paranoia and backwards thinking. I feel so bad for the Chinese people who have to suffer under incompetent leadership, and in this case they have no say about it either.
172
Sort of like the US.
167
@Patrick would trump do the same under same condition?
6
@s002
Yes. Or worse.
7
This is very interesting how so many people have died just by some animals. Pretty interesting news. I have a lot of interest in news like these.
5
Everyone on the ship will be infected by the time the quarantine is over. Maybe that wasn't such a prudent move...
32
@Jordan The alternative? 2000+ Patient Zeros spreading the infection throughout Japan, arguably one of the most interconnected countries on the planet? Unfortunately, there will be many, many tragedies here along with many lives saved due to these types of containment measures.
33
Why are we told the virus is not dangerous yet the survival rate in China is very low?
11
It depends on what you mean by very low. Between 96-98 percent of people will survive, but this is indeed much lower than the seasonal flu of 99.9 percent.
15
I disagree with your statement. The coronavirus’s survival rate is much higher than the SARS epidemic. Although this one is more infectious and has thus killed more people, SARS had a relatively high death rate compared to this ones. SARS infected roughly 8000 people and killed 700 while the corona virus has infected over 40,000 and killed almost 1000. The coronavirus is still a dangerous disease but it your statement regarding the death rate is misguided.
13
@Jeri
The fatality rate is 2-3% at the epicenter where the medical system is stressed. Actual fatality rate is 0.17% from cases outside China.
8
Lack of information due to an authoritarian government, has been the sole cause for the start of this horrific disease in China.
No informed person would buy and sell bats in an open market if they knew it is a known carrier of so many viruses.
83
@alexandra I lived in Asia decades ago and selling bats, snakes etc has been going on forever. I do believe climate change has become responsible for these new viruses to thrive, and it could be bats, pigs, humans or just the air next year.
28
@Alexandra
No one is sure how it get to human yet so don’t make assumptions. The virus probable came from bat but is there another species involved or it jump directly to human is unknown. There are also cases from people that never visited the market so it is possible the market was just where it was detected and not the source.
It is best not to make blanket generalization statements without facts.
16
@BA—to my dismay, Cathay Pacific is still running flights through Hong Kong and my family is scheduled to transit through there (with a 12 hour layover) enroute to Thailand in 3 weeks. Do you have any advice/precautions, especially given the lack of transparency around transmission and infection rates?
7
"But a second Chinese official discounted those claims and said aerosol transmission had not been confirmed and needed further study."
We need to answer that question definitely and fast.
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@Sutter The most important thing in healthcare is knowledge. The worst thing of all is disinformation and dishonesty. Lives would be lost on behalf of whoever chooses to not report correct and honest information.
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About that’s ship. Wouldn’t it be better to take the ones not exhibiting contact with the virus and move them somewhere else? Isn’t it only a matter of time before all on board are infected?
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@Richard Barry This is truly a bad situation for those on board. It is a test of sorts as to how the virus spreads, a perfect microcosm to ascertain how many are infected and over what timeframe. It is unfair and unsafe to keep these people together. A better plan is to test all aboard-results in 1 day I think, and then separately quarantine them.
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@Richard Barry Those are my thoughts, too. I acknowledge copious frustration at my ignorance & lack of information on transmission. Does one have to be symptomatic in order for a test-kit to be useful? I suspect so, because even a magically-good kit couldn't reasonably be expected to be useful three minutes after an individual has been exposed & inoculated. If so, that'd mean test-kits are only good for confirming WHY one is sick, and separating, say, a TB patient from a novel coronavirus patient, and of no use in spotting those who are in early stages of incubation.
Just how "airborne" does the virus have to be in order to travel through a cruise-ship's return-air ducts - assuming those exist - before being broadly distributed to many cabins by some central air-handler, which is kept clean only by a hopelessly-coarse filter?
Early on in reporting on this (mid-January), it was reported that transmission was occurring before symptoms were even visible. If that's the case, then the fever-checking done at airports and other public locations is, at least partially, theatre.
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@Richard Barry
It has to be assumed at this point that it is simply not known who is infected and who is not.
Hence.. medical professionals have to assume every single passenger is potentially already infected. And THAT means quarantine in a quarantine facility... together.. under containment protocols.
Do you really think Japan has a 3700 patient medical quarantine facility just sitting in close proximity to the port where the ship is stopped??
Not to mention the amount of quarantine transport resources required to move 3700 patients safely from the ship to some actual quarantine facility.
Honestly.. so many readers here are simply not thinking before opining.
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The best thing is still to get global supply chain online so most people’s life aren’t super affected and medications for other illness not in short supply. I am not talking just about China, the rest of the world are affected as well with supply chain disruption.
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