Simply, man is killing our planet along with ourselves and some have no comprehension nor concern that there is no planet B...!
51
Karma sucks, but is often well-deserved.
69
I'm sad to say this with me fighting cancer for over 12 years but this is maybe a blessing for the world. We as human need to stop eating and destroying the planet and others species, either thru pollution or eating animals that's not supposed to be eaten. Hope every nation and Chinese peoples start to realize to stop eating wild creatures. We have beef, fish, chicken, and pork etc. What else we need more?
61
evidence is far from clear. huh, where have we heard that before? like during every public health crisis ever! where a quick scapegoat is targeted. frankly. Im shocked the Uighurs are not being blamed. how about a lousy healthcare system is to blame? or maybe chinas military, or the government's environmental abuses? you know human sources? that this virus might have jumped from beast to man, doesn't explain its wildfire spread. that is the real issue and its all a human caused one.
20
It’s time the world start calling out and sanctioning “traditional” cultures for their myth-based beliefs which have led, in countless cases, to a relationship with animals involving cruelty & species selection that now poses a threat not only to the existence of many species, but also to the health and mortality of millions of unsuspecting people around the world.
China’s increasing contact with the outside world seems to have created many unforeseen costs, in addition to the normalization of fear-and-conformity-based single-party dictatorship by corporations like Apple looking for cheap labor, ubiquitous citizen surveillance, ethnic concentration camps, an international trade in human organs “harvested” from prisoners (many of whom have committed offenses only considered to be “crimes“ by China’s tyrannical leaders), and many other hideous violations of basic human rights. The lie-driven mania for “traditional cures” and the insatiable demand for the flesh of endangered species are phenomena we clearly understand. But we are often reluctant to level the necessarily potent criticisms openly, with the exception of a limited number of conservationists and investigative journalists, lest we be labeled “arrogant Westerners” who are “insensitive to traditional cultures” or, per the lazy pro forma accusation which smothers any debate in the US & UK, “racist.”
It’s time governments and silent progressives lose their fear to call things by their proper names and take action.
76
I adore the pangolin family, and frankly hope that even the most remote possibility of their tribe carrying corona virus might give anyone pause before slaughtering them for cockamamie medicinal beliefs. These are magnificent creatures, and people cruel enough to harm them and further hasten their extinction fully deserves to suffer.
83
It’s astonishing and deeply depressing that in this age of science and instant communications so many people wreck the world because of irrational belief in ancient, pre-civilization, superstitions like magic from animal parts, or an Abrahamic god who talks to humans and decides right from wrong.
52
@ Chuck: Chinese smugglers based in Hong Kong are using foreign supply sources (Nigeria is a commonly known one) to satisfy demand on mainland China. You and I both have no idea where these HK-based smugglers were born or the organizational nature of the criminal networks they enrich on both sides of the transaction. So you point is moot.
Further, TCM is far from having withered away in a country of well more than a billion people, a large proportion of whom are still poor, rural and “traditional” (aka superstitious), whether you like it or not. Perhaps it’s time to do a bit of research and employ a touch of logic, lest facts and critical thinking cede their role in argumentation to your “feelings.” We’ve all recently seen more than enough of that for one lifetime.
6
Most prominent in the article are warnings of holding onto skepticism when reading material not peer reviewed.
I think the article is wrongly named.
"Could the pangolin be a vector for the novel coronavirus?"
Seems more apt.
It's compelling how the global trade in exotic animals, and how the animal markets such as in Wuhan, serve as prime incubators for viruses and the ability of viruses to mutate due to the close cramped proximity of so many different species of animals.
Pangolins aren't at fault.
The motives and actions of people are far more suspect
43
I understand that the WHO has given the novel coronavirus a fancy designation. However I propose that henceforth the virus should be known as "the revenge of the pangolins".
I hope some one reading this can translate the name into chinese and end it forth on social media; to remind China that even the "Middle Kingdom" is subject to the laws of nature.
21
This is exactly why I will never take China "Seriously" .. Over 1 billion of them fervently believe in this hocus pocus mythology. If it isn't a pangolin- it's a tiger paw, rhino horn or bear claw .. These people live in the dark ages.
80
@Aaron
For saying this, but using the terminology of Claude Levi-Strauss applied to Chinese, FB banned one of my comments as "hate speech" referred to a Chinese person eating baby mice alive with soy sauce. I was not given the opportunity to ask them, how they would characterize this behaviour...
The bottom line is that, hopefully, this crisis will kill the hypocrisy shown for years in the regards of Asia and its exploitation of wildlife, for a reason or another, around the world and at home.
22
What on earth would people do with dozens of bags of pangolin scales? How many were slaughtered for what? Ornamental purposes? "Medicine"? Just insane.
61
The headline is misleading---to the average reader. The average reader who sees this will probably assume the headline is suggesting that this poor gentle creature is responsible for spreading the virus. In reality, humans who traffic this poor animal are responsible for spreading the virus---NOT the animal. Humans have trafficked this animal to the point of near extinction and in the process, they have endangered the lives of millions of people. It would be prudent to think first before messing with planet earth.
92
Well it would be poetic justice, but I'm afraid it won't be enough. Even if the corona virus wound up killing a hundred million people, which it almost certainly won't, it wouldn't be sufficient to stop the pangolin from going extinct.
Take a lot of good photos of the pangolin while you can, because soon enough, there won't be anymore, forever. And as you wail and whine about the corona virus, try to remember that humanity deserves far more punishment than this.
48
@Dan Stackhouse : Absolutely agree. Humans shall reap what they have sown. Destruction begets destruction.
22
It's not the virus that caused the epidemic. It's the Chinese Communist Party.
8
Like George Carlin said (when talking about spying on pandas' mating habits) - "Leave these creatures alone!!!!!!!!"
23
Mother Nature strikes back! Seems fair to me.
25
I suggest sending the message that ivory and rhino horn are suspected culprits as well.
51
If Chinese people would stop cruelly trapping, caging, selling, and chopping up nature’s wonderful creatures—while they are still alive—this pandemic would never have started. It is past time we as a species move beyond our reliance on animal flesh when cleaner, safer, healthier plant-based alternatives exist.
44
@CP
The chinese animal traffic is more a primitive naturopathic and homeopathic superstition than a normal need for animal protein. This will only end when China evolves, culturally, beyond the Qin dynasty.
28
I grew up watching "Nature" on PBS and the voice of George Paige describing these beautiful animals still rings in my head. But how many of us first heard of pangolis and totoabas in news reports that they were being hunted to extinction. I call this whole 'Covid-19' event "Revenge of the Pangolins".
We used to laugh at George Carlin jokes about how nature was un-bothered by a plastic bag, mother Earth could swat us out anytime it wanted. Here's the second warning shot.
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@Marcos Mota
I called the virus exactly the same thing, before I read your post.
Amen.
6
Blame the perpetual human tendency to believe almost anything irrational over almost anything rational, particularly as relates to health beliefs. Eating cute endangered creatures because somebody says they have medicinal value? Bring it on! Refusing to vaccinate your kids because of hysterical misinformation? Sure, that makes sense. And on it goes.
69
@svetik
It is called Darwinian (natural) selection. Only the truly rational will survive; but it will be an horrendous event to experience.
11
Lovely. If the poor creatures aren’t hunted to extinction as a delicacy or source of “medicine” to some, they’ll be hunted to extinction as disease vectors by others.
37
@LearnedGeography That's what I fear. I doubt that China will be willing to take the financial hit again. And for those who lost family, and income revenge makes sense.
5
10,000 people in the US have died from the flu and complications from the flu that is far more than world wide deaths from Caronavirus. Why are the NYtimes putting the final nail in the coffin of this innocent animal? people eating wild animals and animal trafficking are the cause of the spread of diseases if any cause is to be identified. Now what's causing the flu in the US?
9
@Ericka The New York Times isn't killing any pangolins, do you really think that knowledge of it as a reservoir is a secret? If anyone retaliates it will be the Chinese government, and individuals who lost income and loved ones. They won't see themselves as the cause of the epidemic by interacting with these animals.
Our societies are just different. Here in the US people encroach on deer habitats, and risk Lyme Disease. Or say out in Aurora, CO developments push out into the prairies where prairie dogs carry hantavirus and Bubonic plague. At least here we have classifications and regs that hunters must follow. And as painful as these diseases may be, prairie dogs are not being hunted to extinction.
Oh, "Humans are the principle reservoir of human influenza A viruses." Covid-19 is working the main carriers as we speak.
14
@Ericka
yes and the 10,000 that have died was already at mid January. that is very early in the flu season. in the u.s. alone it is 8,000 people. like nyt said wash your hands, and get your flu shot.
9
Organized crime centered in Hong Kong is the primary source of illicit Pangolin trade into China.
Let that settle in folks... HONG KONG... you know the little city state you all celebrate for their resistance to China.
As to why the Pangolin was ever considered medicinal in Traditional Chinese Medicine in past centuries... it really is immaterial as today medicine and healthcare in China centers around the same medical practices and applications of modern healthcare technology and medications as the rest of the modern world. Example: CT scans are a routine and low cost (in China) method of diagnostics in modern Chinese medicine.
It is true that folklore based medicine of an earlier time.. dies hard in any society (evidence: the still persistent feeling among Americans that Chicken Soup is a therapeutic enhancer to recovery from a cold or flu). So I really think that all the chest beating and outcry from armchair critics needs to be toned down.. because the fact is.. most Chinese would never touch Pangolin as a medicinal.. simply because they have access to better and more proven medical care in China.. which is also much less expensive.
The wealthy in China, including in Hong Kong! ... that still believe in the principles of Traditional Chinese Medicine of folklore.. are the issue here.. because only they have the finanical means to follow it.
26
@Chuck
actually it is in Indonesia not hong kong. most of the illicit trade for animals is actually in Thailand. big markets selling wild animals as pets.
and that is not true that most Chinese would not touch pangolins. they eat the scales. and the flesh. yes, many people (docs)in china use herbs not wild animals in treating diseases. acupuncture is used widely in china.
also auryvedic medicine is the study of non traditional eastern medicine.
8
@jennifer t. schultz
The import pathway into China is via Hong Kong.
It does not matter where the animals are harvested... it is Hong Kong that traffics in much of it.. and it is organized crime in Hong Kong behind it all.
And please.. stop under representing the use of actual western medicine in China. It is much more commonly deployed now days than any of the TCM of the old days. The only TCM that has persisted is acupuncture and herbal medicines (which by the way are also in large and common use in many place in the US as well.
8
@Chuck
Then why are such high prices paid to organized criminal smugglers for pangolin scales by the Chinese? "Traditional" medicine based on mythical cures is still going strong in rural areas of China, which has controlled Hong Kong now for decades. Please don't downplay or make excuses for the abuses meted out on these peaceful animals in the name of charlatans.
13
Maybe that's the way to save endangered species?!? Declare them all zoonotically dangerous!! There's a long list of diseases that animals transmit to humans ....
14
It should be noted to all the China bashing comments here...
The Pangolin has a rich history of use in folk medicine for many centuries in Africa as well. And Africa is completely lawless in terms of using rare animals in folk medicine, whereas in China it is actually illegal... it is just that some Chinese flaunt their own laws.
Soruce, re African use of Pangolin in medicine: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4300090/
9
@Chuck Thanks for my daily dose of whataboutism. What would life be like without the daily recommended dosage?
16
@Chuck Oh, we know about practices in African countries. Nothing short of 10s of millions of man hours of teaching and persuasion will get people to change their behavior across countries were bush meat is favored, and animals are killed for witchcraft. Just educating people about vultures' importance to the food chain and their own health would go a long way. Only one vulture can break the skin of a wildebeest, so that the weaker varieties can eat drowned gnu and clean the rivers from which people drink.
What goes on in Africa doesn't make our arguments about wild meat practices in China moot. As millions of hikers will attest, co-existing with animals that carry diseases is perfectly possible, if you leave them alone.
12
@Chuck I'm guessing that you intended to say "flout", not "flaunt". And yes, people flout the law in every society. The only thing that will discourage such people is a serious consequence. Rarely does the law dish up punishment with the poetry and finesse that Mother Nature brings to the party. The elephant hunted for its ivory that gores and stomps its would-be poacher into a greasy spot is a good example. I'm inclined to think that the ignorant people who traffic in the shy and utterly harmless pangolin are in for some seriously bad karma. Anyone care for a nice bowl of shark fin soup?
7
I’m rooting for the Pangolins here. We should stop trafficking them, leave them alone and protect their habitats.
41
I always The Pangolin would make a good superhero
16
We had 80K deaths from Influenza last year and likely more this year. Highly contagious and preventable. No sense of urgency here and some refuse to vaccinate their children. Chinese eating habits came from not too long ago when perpetual famine gripped the land. They ate what could find or forage. Using animal parts as medicine is practiced all over the world by faith healers, voodoo and witch doctors. Right now, instead of bashing the Chinese, let's just help to find the cure and make a vaccine. People in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones.
12
@bahcom Flu isn't contracted form eating wild endangered animals into extinction for no proven medical benefits. Also the Coronavirus is proving to be more contagious and lethal than the flu.
40
@bahcom, the fact is that the booming Chinese middle and upper classes and their appetite for exotic foods and traditional "remedies" using animal parts (like pangolin scales, rhino horns and ivory) have decimated wildlife. The consumption of meat is also rising rapidly in China. Maybe it's time that more people there embrace the many benefits of vegetarianism.
22
@Doug
not true since world wide there are many more deaths from the flu not the virus currently wrecking havoc.
2
I sincerely hope the coronavirus puts to end the trafficking of endangered species and wildlife. It’s so upsetting. And I hope it puts out of business all these cruise ships Who so disgustingly disrespect habitats in the ocean by basically dumping human filth wherever they please and then coming up to port and destroying port cities culture
74
Eats an endangered species, ends up with a pandemic.
Can you spell karma?
105
@AutumnLeaf You read my mind! Exactly. And how many pangolins do people have to kill to accrue 4 tons of scales? Geez.
We will certainly be celebrating World Pangolin Day!
21
@Solange Gillette That's this Saturday, February 15.
3
@Solange Gillette If there are any pangolins left.
4
Well don't eat them then
14
Meanwhile back in Canada, a oil sands project is said to be desperately necessary. This project lies 30 km south of the Wood Bison National Park which has 4 different migratory bird flyways. One of the birds that utilize Wood Bison is the last remaining wild population of whooping cranes. This oil sands project which will include tailing ponds will lie right in the middle of these migratory path.
The incredible toll that humans are taking on the species that share this planet with - including trees and other vegetation - is unconscionable.
86
I hope it is true that pangolins are the hosts to Coronoviruses, so the Chinese (and others) will stop killing them in the millions and driving them to extinction just to grind up their scales as an aphrodisiac. If it is only a rumor, I am still all in on the rumor being circulated worldwide. Lets leave these gentle harmless animals alone and let them rebound in their natural habitat in Africa
78
"It's not nice to fool Mother Nature." ~ Chiffon Margarine
13
I propose we unofficially call the virus “Pangolins’ Revenge”.
35
‘Revenge of the Pangolins’! I love it.
26
The Pangolin Strikes Back
Revenge of the Pangolin
Beat me to it!
9
China can do China and the rest of the world a lot of good by educating its population that the scales of the Pangolin contain only keratin and keratin cures nothing. It does not cure arthritis. It does not cure hangovers. Nor does it help mothers make milk.
Buyers all over Asia are deceived. Education please.
Keratin is to be found in Rhino horn Pangolin scales and everyone's fingernails.
A campaign to educate is something that China can do very well. I can't think of a better time.
59
@ab2020 I do not think ignorance is the problem rather it’s selfishness combined with bragging rights and a saddest of all the status symbol(s)of which many people clamor.
12
Pangolins are not just the world's most trafficked animal, they are most abused and mistreated animal. China is the biggest abuser, paying big for the animals' crushed/powdered scales for use in "traditional" medicine -- which is laughable because the scales (keratin) have no proven medicinal value at all.
Then, pangolin fetuses are used in China as the main ingredient in a soup, and chopsticks are used to pick up and bite into them. Looking at a photo of this "dish" is to be totally disgusted.
If pangolins are indeed a cause of the coronavirus in China, it's the height of irony, it amounts to a form of karma payback, of retribution by the universe, of what goes around comes around, of getting what you deserve for your sins.
91
The most interesting animal I’ve never heard of. Even the photo looks like an artists conception of an alien beast.
10
An article last year in the NYT’s details how Hong Kong is a central pipeline for criminal wildlife trade. It explains how over the past decade, the booming Chinese middle and upper classes' taste for jewelry, artwork, and traditional though scientifically uncredible remedies and exotic foods have increasingly fueled a global wildlife black market that has decimated species in Africa, Southeast Asia and elsewhere. Ivory and rhino horn from Africa increasingly arrive through Hong Kong’s international airport where much of the illegal merchandise is headed for mainland China. The more rare and endangered something becomes, the more desirable and luxurious it is considered to be by the Chinese middle and upper classes. As a possible intermediate host, now the critically endangered pangolins will be disposed of just as thousands of civets were slaughtered when the SARS virus emerged and they were considered to be an intermediate host.
17
Pangolins, the most trafficked animal on the planet, are already on the road to rapid extinction thanks to voracious Chinese appetites. So, do we really want to accelerate even further their demise by declaring they caused the coronavirus? Man’s cruelty to wild animals caused it, period.
96
World Pangolin Day is this Saturday, February 15th. Please speak out against the senseless slaughter of these very vulnerable/endangered animals.
#WorldPangolinDay
55
Oh great. The pangolins were hunted for food and dubious medicine will now just be killed out of fear.
Things don't usually go well for animals we fear.
24
Stop collecting & selling them for bizarre medicines & food & they won't be transmitting the virus to people now will they?
100
What kind of "medicine" is obtained from this animal? Is it the same type of "medicine" that comes from bears gall bladders? Or shark fins? Or chicken feet?
46
Shark fins are used for soup, not medicine. Chicken feet are very popular as a food in China, just as chicken wings are very popular in the US. Chicken feet are frequently used to make chicken soup and broth. Ironically, many many Americans believe chicken soup helps cure the common cold and the flu. There is no basis in fact for chicken soup having curative properties any more than bear gall bladders or rhinoceros horns. Americans are just as susceptible to quack theories as other cultures. As far as I know, there is no widespread anti-vaccine movement in China.
12
@Moehoward Chicken feet isn't used for medicine. It's food, just like pigs hoof.
Same with Shark fin, although it's now mostly illegal and being phased out.
2
@Moehoward Or rhino horn for gentlemen who have difficulty rising it up.
9
No need to eat bats, pangolins for just about any other type of bush meat unless one is a bush person solely living off the land. Even then, if one contracts something, one is so far away from others that one simply- dies. The end.
17
One look at the wildlife marketplaces of Wuhan and the mystery evaporates. Inhumane slaughter and grotesque dietary proclivities have fostered viral spread. The chickens came home to roost.
60
If you ate some bad hamburger meat, you’d probably not eat it anymore. Maybe if they know they got some bad pangolin meat they’d quit eating them.
8
@Vivien
If they eat exotic animals for their magic, the consequences should be framed as a curse.
10
Eating an exotic species into extinction just adds to my cynicism that human stupidty and greed will eventually kill us all.
163
@cheddarcheese
Anybody still think that climate change is what wiped out the mega-fauna 15,000 year ago? The woolly mammoth's inability to change from being huge, slow, and tasty sealed its fate.
1
@cheddarcheese Fermi Paradox.
1
That's a mammal???
1
And the Pangolins shall inherit the earth saying the lord...
6
So long as China bases its healthcare on Stone-Age superstitions, they will forever be a third-world country. This is the mentality that the rest of the world must contend with while we watch contagion after contagion spew forth from the Middle Kingdom ruled by Chairman Xi:
Coronavirus: Illegal wildlife traders cash in on virus by selling ‘cures’ of horn from endangered rhinos
Exclusive: Sellers in China and Laos advertise ineffectual product on social media app to people worried about falling ill
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/coronavirus-china-cure-rhino-horn-medicine-north-korea-outbreak-a9325856.html
15
@NoVa We aren't immune: Gwyneth Paltrow's Goop.
8
Vengeance for the pangolin population decimation. Sometimes mother nature has a way of correcting and saving itself. My only hope is that the quackery medicine so many in China seek from the skins and fluids of animals will be curbed for good.
26
Although pangolins are apparently the intermediate link with humans, what looks the most intriguing is the incredible resilience of bats to not only one coronavirus variant but several at the same time... why they don't die with those virus living on them?
3
@José R. Herrera
And us, why don’t a lot of infected folks die from this virus? It is this difference in response to not just the Coronavirus but many other infections that is much more interesting. This is not about blindly arming the immune system to knock out the virus, we should instead be asking the question of how do we calm our immune response to controlled response to the virus without self inflicted harm included in it’s itinerary. The vaccine response is akin to powerful countries sending armies to knock out perceived foes. In reality a foe is a perspective by one side only. Maybe the answer is to not view any organisms as terrible or unsavory, but ask, how can we make our bodily environment an unsuitable habitat for them. Nutrition? The right decoctions of pre and probiotics? Vitamins? Less stress? All of the above? The antivirals, antibiotics, vaccines are all in the end a panicked attack on an immediate problem. Impressive, effective and violent in the immediate moment. The underlying problems however remain unexplored by the medical community.
2
@José R. Herrera - It's presumed that, because an immune response is energy-demanding, bat immune systems are downregulated to meet the metabolic requirements of flying. In other words, viruses are tolerated, so these mammals can take to the air!
4
@José R. Herrera It is like ticks carrying Lyme disease. Why don't thy get ill from Lyme but humans do? Also ticks can cause a brain disease in Moose but not deer.
4
All we now know is that the poor pangolins (presumably from that area) who are endangered, also carry the virus. The real question is do the people who catch or cultivate bats for food already carry the virus? Antibodies to previous infections? Could it have changed in one of them who then made their way to Wuhan? I am now asking could it have all been started by a human being, the ultimate super spreader. I wonder if the only reason it was discovered was a shift in the infected population from maybe a more rural exposed one to a cityscape where perhaps people were more susceptible to it’s effects.
Well sure hope you spread the pangolin message, maybe folks in other places in Asia and as far as central Africa will hear this news and stop eating these poor creatures.
21
True or not, this is a speculation that should be given plenty of room to spread, armadillos-leprosy, pangolins-coronavirus.
14
Revenge of the Pangolins. Perhaps humans will now leave the remaining ones alone.
202
@John
How to humans react to things they fear? By leaving them alone?
9
Amen
4
@Marie Sadly, all to often the response is to annihilate.
5
These retiring, gentle creatures are severely endangered because of the predations of Asian countries. This would certainly be Mother Nature’s revenge, and well-earned.
227
@Melinda Mueller
Exactly correct, and well said.
10
@Melinda Mueller Wow, "well-earned revenge". While many innocent people are suffering from this epidemic, such an insensitive comment receiving the most recommend shows how much sympathy those from the non-Asian countries have. I can't help but ask how much damage have the non-Asian countries caused to Mother Nature. Extinction of many species on the continent of America and Australia? Global warming? Rising sea level? Would you welcome "well-earned revenge" from Mother Nature?
11
As ye sow, so shall ye reap...
The chickens have come home to roost - at least as far as eating an endangered species.
77
@Almost Can’t Take It Anymore
Contracting this virus (or any virus) has nothing to do with eating any animal!
Only ignorance leads Americans to conclude that Chinese people (1) eat any animals that Americans don't eat and (2) eat wild exotic animals such as snakes, bats, cats, pangolins.
But ignorance further leads Americans to conclude that a person is infected by a virus through ingestion!
Oh My God!
@Almost Can't Take It Anymore - Why are people wearing face masks? To prevent their mouths from "swallowing" the virus?
1
If the pangolin, which has been critically endangered by humans for no genuine benefit, has a role in the spread of a virus that was to ultimately critically endanger the human species… that would be the most poetic irony that nature could possibly author. 'Traditional Chinese' (read: quack) medicine resulting in "pangolins' revenge."
187
It would be ironic if an animal that Chinese traffickers are pushing to extinction led to human extinction.
139
The elephant in the room is the wildlife trade satisfying by demand for "traditional" foods and medicines. The demand for exotic "pets" is also a factor, but there are far more people who want their meds and want them now.
24