For quarantine, as new cases are identified, does the 14-day quarantine clock start over? In theory, these folks could be on the ship for an unknowable amount of time if the clock restarts with each case. Awful situation...for crew, for passengers, for their loved ones on shore.
11
This is a farce, a deadly, horrible farce! They are all sealed in with the infection. A Canadian passenger assumes she is going to board a commercial aircraft as soon as the 14 days are over; she doesn't understand that she in far more danger of being infected herself than she ever was before the "quarantine" first began! No proper testing, no proper quarantine ~ nada. They should have taken the passengers OFF the ship and put them into army barracks or another safe place where they could actually be quarantined instead of placing them in this petri dish ~ conditions where we all know the virus is rife to spread!!!!!
37
Japan’s leadership is demonstrating on the international stage either sheer incompetence and underwhelming preparedness, or a complete lack of respect and empathy for people who are risking their lives on that ship. My guess it’s more likely the latter when you consider Japan is a world class competitor in all faucets of the health care industry, and that’s saying a lot for a culture that has such a high regard for respect. For them to say “sorry we aren’t capable of testing 3500 people” is tantamount to criminal behavior. At last count Japan’s population was estimated at 126 million people. Are they serious?
21
@Michael Kasparian On further thought, although Japan may be trying to protect itself due to the Olympics, etc. how they handle this, also bodes for people's confidence in their abilities. Tickets to the event are hard to come by, but if this is mismanaged to the point that hundreds of passengers getting infected or sick, who will attend the Olympics with any confidence that they will be safe?
Also Japan received international help after the tsunami and Fukushima, so dropping the ball on this one will look doubly bad.
Sorry Japan, but you need to use the golf course on Oshima Island before it's too late. Make the cruise line pay for it.
9
Can this virus stay with the ship itself?
7
Questions:
Who is the actual liaison for the ship’s crew members and Japanese officials and any medics?
Who makes final decisions? Is it Carnival Cruises HQ, ship crew or Japan?
How is food being prepared? Is it running low? At this point can only frozen pre-packages meals be prepared to avoid contamination?
How are children, babies, and the elderly being looked after since their needs are more acute at this time?
How are crew who need to visit passengers including sick ones being physically protected from contracting virus? We’re they provided proper and adequate non-reusable PPE equipment?
How is bodily waste being collected on ship to be properly disposed of since it contains the virus? Or can it survive a long time outside the body?
How are public spaces, rooms and bathrooms being properly disinfected and daily? What is the chemical being used?
How are clothes being washed?
What happens to the belongings of sick passengers?
For 2,500 ppl what is the ratio of medics to passengers? Are these medics rotated so as not to burn out?
What is being done to keep passengers mentally and emotionally stable?
Will heated quarantine tents be set up soon on land for passengers to slowly disembark and be tested and treated?
Are passengers still able to reach out to loved one?
20
@Miya The passengers were talking about looking forward to their exercise time out on the deck. While I understand their need to get out of their tin can rooms, nothing could be more dangerous ~ heavy breathing under paper thin masks! Hands touching equipment and fixtures in communal areas. Nothing could be more foolish under the circumstances. Just like the Canadian woman who expects to board a commercial aircraft at the end of the 14 days. I don't know if their WiFi is being limited, but clearly, many of the people are ignorant to the danger of the situation that they are in right now. It's very sad.
5
OK; how about the countries that have significant numbers of passengers on board bring them back home where they can be properly quarantined and treated if necessary. We in the US could certainly do this. I'm sure Europe could do this even if it meant sending a plane loaded with passengers from several European countries and then sorting it out once it lands.
If we did this it would get the numbers of passengers down to a more reasonable level and allow the crew to spread out so they aren't confined below deck and sharing such tight quarters. What we've got there now is a disaster in the making for thousands of people. We shouldn't leave our citizens in such a spot.
12
Come on, Japan! At least bring them food! It’s a death sentence to force these crew members to deal with food prep, delivery and sanitation, all of which are likely to spread the disease.
11
How about robots ! The cruise operators should be brainstorming and using what's available. The Japanese are famous for their robotics research. There are already robots delivering takeout and groceries. How about robots delivering food to passengers and crew (who should be separated from each other either at port in tents or in the many public areas abroad the ship). Take a cue from what one Washington State hospital is doing - using a robot to check on a patient.
10
I think they have to let people, one by one, leave ship and keep then isolated in some places where they can get help. It is stupid idea to keep them together. Base on what they will decide that is safe for all of them leave ship at once? Eventually all passengers will get sick.
11
@maria The government is seriously crewed up; it was reported in Japanese news today that they requested WHO and other authorities to not include the infections in Japan's count because 'it occurred before the ship reached the land and the numbers would affect the country's economy and tourism' (quoted word for word from the Mainichi Shimbun article). It's not a stupid idea, it's straight up malicious.
11
The best thing to do is to transfer everyone on board to a secure temporary outdoor hospital (like in SARS). The staff are humans too, and their lives precious. They should not have to endanger themselves by working in cramped conditions to keep passengers fat, fed and happy.
Doctors know to treat every life the same. They do not value "passengers" over "staff". It's mind boggling why the Japan govt fails to grasp this.
19
Long term, combating epidemics like the Coronavirus are going to require a belief in, and an investment in, science and facts. In America, these appear to be values from a distant era. Donald Trump has proposed cuts across the board at the National Science Foundation (NSF) in his 2020 budget request to Congress. Now, I realize that Donald Trump's red hat supporters agree that "Fine People" were walking with Neo Nazis in Charlottesville, but I also hope they understand that pandemics like Coronavirus will not discriminate based on skin color.
16
@Son Of Liberty Discuss the issue and cut the political rhetoric.
8
This seems like a good way of testing a lot about the virus and world health scientists should be rushing in.
1. test everyone to see who tests positive, but has mild symptoms or is asymptomatic.
2. educate everyone on the ship about contagion control
3. Continue to test and monitor everyone to see how long the latency period lasts, how easily its transmitted, severity of various people with the disease.
5
@Sharon Unfortunately, the ship is a natural experiment with at least two populations, the have and have nots. What Sharon is suggesting is what the U.S. is doing to its evacuees. To do that with those aboard a cruise liner would be inhuman given what we know about transmission of disease.
3
Who is in charge of the care on this ship?
They need help.
4
So basically everyone on that ship has been condemned to sooner or later get the disease. How terrible.
33
It's pretty ironic that cruise lines are still advertising right now. But it could be quite a deal for people who are willing to gamble. Take a week-long cruise and if the ship is so unlucky as to get hit with the coronavirus, passengers could get a couple additional weeks free - in quarantine.
11
Do they really know how this disease is transmitted? How certain are they that it is not airborne? If it is, and it could be in the recirculated air, everyone on onboard stands to become infected. This is a nightmarish ordeal for all of them. Let us hope that they have some kind of relief soon.
12
@dutchiris
I suspect it can be transmitted airborne. Let's see what happens inn that Hong Kong residential building where they now suspect this might have happened.
1
This all sounds like the makings of an international crime novel: Powerful leaders sit back and watch the destruction of their economic rival, all caused by their overlord who is a master at germ warfare and hacking.
3
This is the titanic all over again...just in excruciatingly slow motion. I can't see anyone ever boarding those ships again...
8
My Chinese American acupuncturist, who has contacts in China , says that the truth of the disease is its much worse than the flu . No cure , and there are many more cases and casualties than China admits to .
16
Confining all these people on a ship with presumably a ventilation system that circulates air, and other systems that spreads the germs everywhere, is not the best idea. Passengers should have been screened immediately and everyone healthy allowed to disembark. Filling planes with people and sending them back to their home countries doesn't sound wise either.
11
We are observing a "Titanic" event of underclass (crew and middle class) vs. Big Ship capital in the spiral of a virus. It is a seismic biological event that will be watched and studied by epidemiologist, sociologists, and warfare experts. Sadly, the labor suffering will not be as interesting. It seems like the Truangle Shirtwaist Factory fire repeats.....
10
About time there was some coverage on the poor crew on these slave galleys. Simply disgusting what the Japanese authorities are imposing on the crew and passengers. It is a violation of fundamental human rights. They could easily remove the crew and passengers to safer, more humane quarantine facilities. The Japanese regimes always promote racist, xenophobic attitudes, and are undoubtedly using this as an opportunity to whip up Jingo sentiments among the Japanese population by fear mongering.
15
This is like a movie with a familiar plot: The rich are in an enclave protected from danger while the less advantaged are left stranded to fend for themselves.
It's inevitable that the crew living in close quarters will spread the virus. But what I don't get is that the crew are still cooking for and taking care of the passengers! Isn't it common sense that this puts the passengers at risk as well? I don't understand why meals prepared on land would not be delivered to all by a team in hazmat suits, as well as the crew being isolated and protected. Poor poor handling of the crises.
23
@Sparkly Violet
Let's ask Bernie Sanders what he would do in this kind of situation. Let's see what he says about this.
2
@2B or not 2B Let see what Trump is going to do when virus will spread in US.
2
GOD help the passengers and the crew who are stuck in the cruise ship to come out unharmed.
18
i posted earlier that i thought some people were allowed off this ship docked at japan..but that was the OTHER cruise ship in hong kong, not this one.
2
@george plant Keeping up is a part-time job George, especially if you tune into Asian news outlets. It truly has become a 24-hr news cycle. I don't trust just a few sources and for too many days, EU and US outlets were sanitizing the news.
1
I've heard that the Japanese culture can be rather discriminatory against other Asians. I wonder if the Japanese government's handling of this ship is reflective of this.
To not be proactively testing the crew seems crazy to me.
4
No doubt. Japanese authorities always promote xenophobic attitudes, not only against "inferior" but everybody else. They actually refer to Japanese as a mythical "Yamoto race" in the present day. Undoubtedly the Japanese regime is fear-mongering.
2
@AR..."No doubt" leads me to doubt. At an important public health crisis moment, providing some evidence (urls?) would historicize that moment (fear mongering) as data is reported now, not the past.
3
Let's not spread xenophobism of xenophobism at a time like this. Diamond Princess is a U.S. boat operated by a California company (Princess Cruises), whose Asian cruise hosts Japanese, American, Australian, British and other international holidaymakers and served by an international crew. I wish Japanese government, U.S. government and the cruise company set up an urgent and massive operation of converting the boat (and other Princess boats) into advanced hospital ships and finish quarrantining asap.
2
The attitude of the Japanese authorities is nothing short of medieval. In medieval times when the plague was detected in a village, they'd lock the village gates and abandon everybody to their fate inside to protect those outside. Back then there was little else they could do for the common good. It seems some of us haven't progressed all that much since then in some fundamental ways in spite of all the airs we have about ourselves. There is no excuse for this downright cruel handling of this situation. Modern, humane quarantine, designed to give as much protection as possible to the quarantined in addition to protecting the rest is not that hard to figure out, as shown by many of the common sense comments here.
8
@Jason Easy to blame Japan. The US and UK have many citizens on board the ship. The US has military bases in Japan, some isolated from mainland Japan, that we could fly qualified medical personnel to - quarantine people, treat those sick. US citizens could be transported to such facilities in ambulances or properly equipped planes or helicopters. Why aren't we offering to do that?
28
Since the solution is not that hard to figure out, as you say, perhaps the enlightened and humane French government is willing to step up and invite the ship to dock at Marseille, and if they’re feeling really humane, they could even offer to quarantine all the passengers and crew on the lovely French Riviera, at the French taxpayers’ expense, bien sûr.
7
@Jason The Japanese are still hemorrhaging money on Fukushima and they have the Olympics starting in July. I have no problem criticizing Japanese authorities, but do you see their bind? Why not ask Princess Cruises to bring another ship onto which the passengers could be split? Or to dig deep into their off-shored purses and hire emergency medical staff? The cruise line is the responsible party here. If countries could load their sick onto ships and drop them off on random ports of call, we'd have madness on our hands.
The cruise companies have been clearing billions in profit each, every year for a good run. Let them step up, but they won't because they do not care about these passengers. And far too many passengers are ignorant or flippant about signing up with companies who don't care if they die. One of them just called us "holier-than-thou" and is off on an Antarctic cruise soon.
3
The decision to keep the crew and the passengers quarantined on the ship is a reckless one. The virus is obviously spreading as more people are carried off the ship each day. There is no way the crew could have been completely prepared to use the protocols to keep themselves and the passengers uninfected. They should all be removed from the ship immediately and safely removed to a location where those who are infected can be treated and those who are still virus free can be protected. Every day they force them to remain on the ship the dangers of cross contamination and infection increase. What are they waitiing for. Someone described the ship as a vast petri dish. The risk is terrifying to the passengers, the crew and their loved ones.
43
Modern day slavery, brought to you by Princess Cruise lines.
27
This situation is unconscionable. It appears, to me, that everyone on that boat is being sacrificed. I dont know who is making these decisions but the situation seems ripe for thousands if deaths. They (cruise corporation) knows how to take passenger money but can't manage to figure out the proper way to help their employees and "guests?"
Japan doesnt want thousands of infected people on their shores. These people are being left to sicken and die. It must be so awful for everyone on that death trap.
35
@Debbie "It appears, to me, that everyone on that boat is being sacrificed. "
That wouldn't be too far from the truth. Japan only has, according to their health ministry, 2000 beds capable of handling people sick with the disease. An outbreak on the scale of Wuhan would strain their health care system to the breaking point. Their economy would be devastated, just as China's is going to be. The cold calculus is that the greater good is achieved by containing the sickness within the ship. And before we blame Japan - remember that the US and UK have several citizens on board the ship that their countries aren't lifting a finger to help. The US, in particular, has many secure military bases in Japan that could be used to treat patients or quarantine citizens. That isn't happening.
20
Quarantine on a cruise is an oxymoron. Everyone will get sick. I am surprised no-one has jumped overboard yet. The decks look about 40-50 feet from water and short swim.
25
@in Seattle
A 40-50 (assuming it's not more from decks you're allowed to be on) foot jump into the ocean is not a safe or wise venture, especially if you're more than 25 or so years old. And if you made it, you're likely picked up at gunpoint by the local authorities.
6
Quarantine is not for the protection of those on the ship. It’s to keep the disease from coming ashore.
21
The Japanese are botching up the response. I liked the fact that the situation of the crew from poorer countries are highlighted. It just seems like the governments are ok to offer them up as sacrifice . I wonder what the response would be if it was a US or EU flagged cruise liner. The only hope for the crew is the Indian government’s ability to evacuate them. I am not sure about the Philippines
16
Diamond Princess is an American ship. The owner and operator, Princess Cruises, is a U.S. company headquartered in California. Its CEO reportedly has flawn to Japan lately but remains conspicuously silent.
20
The ship flies the British flag.
3
@K Hamahashi The ship is in international waters. It doesn’t matter where said company is headquartered.
1
Keeping everyone on ship guarantees unnecessary deaths. The policy is ridiculous.
22
Move all but the current shift of workers off the ship.
Erect large tents behind barricades on the pier. Put in cots and those curtains they have around hospital beds. Move much of the crew off the ship to the tents.
No room on the pier? Moor one or more barges alongside.
The Japanese Navy may even have barracks barges for temporary crew housing when they do maintenance on a ship’s berthing areas.
12
It’s the middle of winter in Japan. People living in tents would probably die of hypothermia.
7
@A B oh, excellent idea!
1
@tg
You can heat a big tent. It’s done all the time at receptions, etc.
Why can't everyone be tested and those were negative let go? It seems like they are increasing the probability that everyone on the ship will eventually become infected.
8
@Jennifer casarella
Because the Virus takes 14 days to show up after exposure so a negative result could potentially go on and catch the disease later on and infect others in the process.
8
@Jennifer casarella
My understanding is that the latency period is nearly 14 days. If correct I could get a clean bill, then infect others in 2 weeks.
6
@J Darby Recent studies show that it can take up to 24 days
5 years in the Navy and I never heard of a disease outbreak on a ship. Those ships have much closer quarters, too.
We hear about Norwalk virus outbreaks on cruise ships several times a year.
7
@ N C I think you mean norovirus, not Norwalk virus.
5
@Elizabeth English
I think they’re the same thing
@Elizabeth English
Not likely:
https://eportal.mountsinai.ca/Microbiology/faq/norwalkfaq.shtml
4
How in anyone’s right mind would it be intelligent logistics in keeping 2,500 people confined on a ship in a constant damp and moist environment and think it would not breed more of the virus? They created an incubator!!
We have records of this from centuries ago! I don’t know...slave ships, ships used for exploring, etc. There was always an outbreak to write about because ships are the perfect floating Petri dishes!
Someone please intervene. Officials could’ve easily made a quarantine camp OFF the ship. Yes. Isolate - but use intelligent and humane logistics. This is embarrassing!!
57
This is outrageous and makes no sense at all. What prevents an orderly disembarkation where passengers are screened and triaged accordingly? Instead they are confined to this ship which acts as a giant incubator where infection continues to spread. Those on the ship and their loved ones must be beside themselves.
26
@Edwin the infection risk is the crew. They are the ones moving about the ship
@L The crew is certainly at risk, but the passengers are as well. Their food is being brought to them by the crew, gloved or not, we don't know enough about how it spreads The gentleman who brought the virus on the ship was only aboard 2 days and look at what's happening.
2
Memo to self: never take a cruise.
114
I’ve taken one ocean cruise in my life and will NEVER take another.
16
You can blame Japan - they may be slow trying to solve the serious issues.
But the ship belongs to UK and is operated by the US company. Is it too much to expect any actions or at least words by either Trump or Johnson ?
24
@NF Would you please permit me to laugh? Did you know that Trump cut funding to the CDC and that the entire upper echelon on the government's disease response teams are without leadership thanks to unfilled staff positions? Rachel Maddow used to have a big screen with a list of the unfilled positions throughout the admin, and then she and her techs/producers had to add ANOTHER screen because the list couldn't fit.
Back in the UK thousands of elderly light their homes by candle light because they can't afford electricity. Hello? Have you heard of house fires? Are these the two governments that you expect to help?
Seriously, the bottom line is that this is the cruise lines' responsibility. Every year they fake in billions in profits and then abscond it off-shore, so let them pay for what is rightfully their responsibility. Yes, governments in the UK and the US, should hold them to account, in an alternately reality where they are not the lapdogs of big businesses that hide behind maritime law.
32
@NF In response to your very reasonable question, it certainly does appear to be 'too much' for the leaders of those two countries to break down and make any comment whatsoever.
Maybe they're both looking in the mirror and fussing with their hair. Maintaining those coifs can't be easy.
21
Why anyone in their right mind would willingly subject themselves to being a captive audience of a corporate overlord with place their basic life support infrastructure in their hands is beyond my comprehension.
I have never understood the appeal of a massive, bloated, disaster in the making. It just all seems so appallingly nightmarish from any standpoint. Trapped, on a huge floating amusement park/mall with a bunch of people you would normally do anything to avoid. I just don't get it.
70
Totally agree. I’ve never been interested in confining myself on a giant, polluting ship full of strangers in a tiny, poorly ventilated room. I once sat next to a man on an airplane who was returning to his job in charge of entertainment on one of these floating monstrosities. He looked very stressed and drank at least ten alcoholic drinks from a LHR to SFO. Imagine being in charge of several thousand adults who expect you to keep them happy. He said he was saving every bit of money earned to buy a home and quit. He added to my dislike of the whole thing. Add in the potential for viruses and bacteria spreading. No thanks. Ick!
22
Totally agree. The cruise industry is hideous in more than one way. Took a Viking Cruise (yes, much smaller than these monstrosities) but equally as awful and confining and full of people you’d have wished you’d never met! “Iconic landmarks” ..really? Who can stomach it!?
9
@Matthew
This has the makings of a great apocalyptic novel!
1
A few of the comments here seem to attribute dark motives to the Japanese response, but I don't think it is that at all. I've spent a good bit of time working in Japan and I believe the answer is far simpler. While Japan is wonderful at perfectly performing repetitive acts under controlled circumstances, the same does not apply in dealing with sudden, unexpected, and catastrophic events. A few years ago Fukushima shown a light on this tendency. This is is a less catastrophic yet otherwise inept reaction. Americans can't be counted in to put the peanut butter in two successive peanut butter sandwiches, but when Houston floods people in boats step into the breach.
PS:. It's probably too late, but I want to make clear that this is a cultural observation with no racial content. The Japanese-Americans I've known have been just as adaptable, agile, and independent as anyone else in America. And I have known Japanese who stood out from their fellow countrymen in those respects. I describe only Japanese organizations and how they affect the people within them.
9
@Charles Becker I’m reminded of Katrina, Puerto Rico, and the occupation of Iraq as fine examples of America in crisis, thinking on the fly.
12
@eirsatz,
Of your three examples, Katrina is the one that's not like the others.
3
@Charles Becker Organization theorists would say that many organizations, independent of country, do not respond well to unexpected events. However, at the individual level, what Becker described applies to many Japanese. My observation from living there for two years and learning about ER events there is that most Japanese look to one another to figure out how to respond. If you are injured in a car accident, don't expect quick help even after the ambulance arrives.
1
Once I became infected with a respiratory infection on a cruise ship, the same line now quarantined in Japan. At the time, a few years ago, I noticed that the hygiene on board was sadly inadequate. No alcohol sanitizer offered or available, and no restroom on the floor with one dining venue. The upholstery looked dirty, and I never saw anyone cleaning handrails.
Having the crew going from room to room delivering meals is probably a guarantee of increased rate of infection. Indeed, it probably will be discovered that someone in the crew is spreading the infection. In China, the medical people are wearing hazmat suits. Doesn’t that tell you something?
26
@Suzalet China may not be a good example of telling us much. Many televised shot of temperature probes in contact with forehead skin; spraying of unknown substance for unspecified effects; and people wearing masks when no one is about on streets.
Quarantines have always been designed to protect the people outside of the quarantine, not the people inside the quarantine.
18
According to the World Health Organization (WHO), the crew and passengers are closely followed-up and are medically examined and tested for 2019-nCoV when displaying any signs or symptoms suggestive of 2019-nCoV disease.
The quarantine period is scheduled to come to an end on 19 February.
WHO added that all individuals testing positive were disembarked and admitted for medical care in infectious disease hospitals in the Yokohama area.
1
@Dashington wow. That doesn’t make any sense. Even more people will be infected by Feb 19. Why have a quarantine now but not then?
4
@Sue because of the 14 day incubation period- At that stage anyone infected should be showing symptoms.- or will at least test positive and can be further isolated and treated.
2
My understanding, from what I’ve read in this paper, is that each day there are new cases reported the quarantine clock must start over at day one. I hope for the sake of these poor people aboard that I’m wrong.
2
“.. keep the contagion from expanding on Japan’s shores, is endangering the health and safety of the crew.”
Great that Japan wants to contain the risk and help preserve the health and life of the world’s population.
HOWEVER, given that usually these days many of the crew on such ships are not Japanese, could this be another incident of Japanese racism and classism? (America isn’t the only population known to harbor and enact such).
5
To quarantine the whole ship for a prolonged time like that seems foolish and cruel to me. Soon or later everybody on that ship will get the virus and get sick. They really should test everyone on board, and sort them. Immediately remove and treat the sick, quarantine the infected, quarantine and then release the healthy. Those people should not be kept together like that. I think Japan is just making excuses about not having the capacity to test. If Hong Kong could test 1800 people aboard the ship there, why can't Japan? Japan is clearly more resourceful than Hong Kong.
17
If the particular prefecture, or even the entire nation of Japan, cannot manage to quarantine these people in a way that better protects those not yet infected, why on earth doesn’t the ship fuel up and sail to someplace that can, and will?
12
Another ship just spent days sailing around desperately looking for a port where it could dock, finally finding a port in Thailand, and that ship didn't have any reported cases of the virus. Plus, how would they evacuate the sick if it is sailing around?
3
If I was on that ship, I think I'd jump in the water and let the outside world rescue me. There's no way those folks are getting out in another week or so. They can only release folks AFTER they have the last person identified with coronavirus has been cleared for 14 days. Right now, the clock resets every day.
17
@Marky
1) The drop from the deck to the water is huge. You could possibly get hurt when you hit the water.
2) The water is very cold - you would be hypothermic in under ten minutes.
3) There aren't convenient ladders every 20 feet to climb out of the water, and the dock will be much higher than the water level. People disembark big ships like these via gangplanks.
1
This is another rancid industry that should breathe its last sooner rather than later. Hopefully, this will accelerate the process.
19
Cruise ships are major polluters. They should be outlawed for the dangers they pose to the earth and its population. The cruise lines only care about profit not the crew or the passengers. This outbreak is terrifying and a portent of disasters to come.
29
Other than the possible multi-night sleep-over, they don’t seem all that different than airplanes (also major polluters) or cross-country or cross-continental trains or busses. Do you also suggest eliminating those forms of travel?
10
Not quite the number of people on one vehicle as cruise ships contain.
4
@Human Being
Airplanes don't have several thousand people for days or weeks, or have unregulated food prep oversight by a responsible government.
4
I have never been on a cruise ship, because I abhor crowds, closed spaces and the sensation of not having freedom. Norovirus gave support to my resolution, as it used to be the virus of cruise ships.
Now the corona virus looks like a horror movie turned true aboard a ship. The poor people inside that ship are doomed to get sick if nothing is done to screen all of them for the virus and let those who are not infected get out. They may be quarantined out of the ship, if necessary. The government of Japan that imposed the quarantine is responsible for the sickness of these people and for any deaths. The owners of the cruise line should care for their passengers and crew and not permit this situation to continue, as it is not only bad for the health of the people on the ship but to their reputation.
I have imagined lots of scenarios aboard a cruise ship that justified my avoidance of that kind of travel. But being restricted of my freedom to disembark was not one. Now I know that is a posible and dreadful possibility.
18
I have never been on a cruise ship, because I abhor crowds, closed spaces and the sensation of not having freedom. Norovirus gave support to my resolution, as it used to be the virus of cruise ships.
Now the corona virus looks like a horror movie turned true aboard a ship. The poor people inside that ship are doomed to get sick if nothing is done to screen all of them for the virus and let those who are not infected get out. They may be quarantined out of the ship, if necessary. The government of Japan that imposed the quarantine is responsible for the sickness of these people and for any deaths. The owners of the cruise line should care for their passengers and crew and not permit this situation to continue, as it is not only bad for the health of the people on the ship but to their reputation.
I have imagined lots of scenarios aboard a cruise ship that justified my avoidance of that kind of travel. But being restricted of my freedom to disembark was not one. Now I know that is a posible and dreadful possibility.
4
Everyone’s health matters. The cruise has ended. It's quarantine time. Spread out the crew onshore or on the ship. If the crew cannot live in tents at the port, then have the crew live in tents or just spread out on the many public guest spaces of the ship. Much more challenging is figuring out how to serve meals and take showers with minimal contact. Many customers know the crew lives in close quarters and want companies to be compassionate to their crew.
8
@DW
Seems Japan is putting health of the many (its own population) over the health of the few (on the ship). Seems cruel to the people on the ship, but understandable. As another commenter noted, quarantines are imposed to protect people outside the quarantine, not those inside the quarantined area. Those poor people are not getting out anytime soon.
6
This is such a clever thought. It is so obvious yet seems to be overlooked by the people in charge.
2
For years, my wife and I have discussed the +/-'s of taking a sea cruise. Mostly it has centered around the opportunity to visit foreign shores versus the risk of acquiring Legionnaire's Disease caused by the ship's HVAC systems.
Now we have been watching the disease experiment on board the Diamond Princess. We are learning of how a pandemic spreads, when forcing a control group of 2,666 guests and 1,045 crew to stay onboard a quarantined ship. We have watched how the 10 cases of coronavirus on Feb. 4th have grown to 135, in just 6 days of confined living. It must be terrifying to be on that boat.
The story of the Diamond Princess has ended our discussion of ever taking a cruise, once and for all.
65
this could happen anywhere people congregate, public transport, sports stadiums, restaraunts, etc.
3
People dont typically spend overnight(s) in a restaurant or sports arena.
18
I've always considered cruise ships floating septic tanks
32
or Petri dishes.
2
This is a terrible place to quarantine people. Basically assures spread. Some of these people, statically, are going to die.
8
@D Statically die ,, yeah whatever ..Another of our eduumicated public at large.
The passengers in individual cabins are going to be fine as it easy to ensure close contact with
only very few people. The crew are in real danger and should be moved to a place where they can be separated from infection.
4
Coronavirus or not, cruise ships have long been known as floating petri dishes.
20
The crew are all among the potentially infected anyway.
2
That’s a pretty callous statement.
It also ignores the fact that the crew, if infected or carrying the virus on their hands, clothing, etc., then become vectors themselves.
4
@Frances Grumble (sic) in SF
Are you saying, then, that if you’re buried alive or injured by debris in the next big earthquake, that first responders and others shouldn’t bother to help you, since your demise is practically a fait accompli anyway?
Jeez.
6
The floating incubator.
6
This isn’t working Each country should evacuate their own citizens and set up real quarantines on their shores.
Keeping these people on the ship while the disease spreads is not a solution. And ending the quarantine process in a few days and letting everyone go home is just going to mean that the ship has worked as an incubator for the disease.
Every person on this ship will need to be re-quarantined.
11
And if not on their shores, then somewhere other than that ship. The US, for example, has extensive military operations, and properties, in Japan.
6
@ellienyc do you think the US service-members and Japanese citizens on Okinawa want the potentially infected people from the ship on their small island?
Yet another reason for not booking an inside cabin.
17
These poor people should be quarantined away from others, not kept in this petri dish of a ship until they all sicken. It's unconscionable to do this to them. I can't believe it.
30
How does this quarantine stay limited to two weeks? If fresh cases are discovered today, and the incubation period is thought to be two weeks, doesn't the quarantine have to extended another two weeks? And then another two weeks as still more infected people are discovered? It looks like everyone on board is doomed to get the virus.
50
Well Duh!!! What better incubator for the virus than a rabbit Warren cruise ship with minimal medical facilities. Are people confined to their CB cabinets or is it business as usual -,buffets, bars, and lots of contaminated surfaces. This is CNN not Ebola - people in the US receive their care at home. Personally I would never set foot on one of those floating death traps.
11
It’s about time for the Diamond Princess to go out to sea again so that it can flush it’s collected human excrement into the ocean...
On February 4 Princess Cruises wrote..
“The ship plans to go out to sea to perform normal marine operations including, but not limited to, the production of fresh water and ballast operations before proceeding alongside in Yokohama where food, provisions, and other supplies will be brought onboard.”
Ballast operations is a euphemism for flushing the ship’s sanitary (used toilet water) holding tanks.....
https://www.princess.com/news/notices_and_advisories/notices/diamond-princess-update.html
“Where do you think your waste goes after weeks on the cruise ship? They dump it in the ocean, of course. Essentially, you’re taking a dump in the middle of the sea. This is known as “blackwater” in the industry. The feces and urine are treated to get moisture out. Other than that, it’s dumped in the ocean.”
http://www.trueactivist.com/secrets-cruise-ships-dont-want-you-to-know-t2/25/
Cruising is so fresh, clean and lovely.....
51
@mc It's a good thing that I have good impulse control. I was eating at the time of reading that. However, I have to thank you for informing us further about this evil industry.
5
Why quarantine people on the boat, if the virus is spreading fast here? Why aren’t people removed to a hospital capable of treating and isolating infectious patients?
13
Most current numbers from CDC for influenza in the U.S.:
22 million flu illnesses
210,000 hospitalizations
12,000 deaths
So let's keep this all in perspective!
11
@BJ Coronavirus is twenty times more deadly than 'flu. If it gets loose in the general population to the same extent as influenza you could expect close to a quarter of a million to die.
How's that for perspective?
13
@BJ
The difference between the flu and the coronavirus is that there is a lot of unknown with this 2019n-CoV. The flu cases will go down by March or April. We do not know the course of this new virus and the range of mortality.
8
@Roy Murray Depends on which flu. My great-grandmother died in the Spanish flu epidemic of 1918.
2
The Japanese, who are ultra-obsessed over cleanliness, will see absolutely nothing wrong with treating the healthy people aboard the ship like chattel. Concentrating the sick with the healthy aboard this ship will probably cost lives. But Japan will never acknowledge, or take responsibility for, the consequences of her decision.
10
This is just the beginning. In the past flu viruses have killed millions, all without the ease of travel we have today. The earth is trying to shed a destructive parasite: humans.
20
@Paulie
This is dramatic. Viruses have probably been around since soon after the first life appeared. This is what they do.
2
Those ships look gorgeous and all but outbreaks are why I stay away from them
6
One thing that does not make sense about the quarantine is the notion that it will end in 14 days. This will be useful only if passengers have never come in contact with other potentially infected individuals during the quarantine period. However, the passengers in the cruise are exposed on daily basis to crew members who might have already been infected and infectious but yet to show symptoms. In addition, the food itself could be contaminated. Thus, authority either keeps the quarantine in perpetuity or try another alternative strategy. This is because after the 14-days- quarantine more people may be infected than now given number of cases is increasing every day.
18
Just now, a Hong Kong apartment building is suspected as a site of airborne transmission of the Coronavirus. The building is locked down and all the occupants have been sent to quarantine camps.
So, having 3000-4000 thousands who are crowded in the boat is not the wisest ideas.
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3049921/tsing-yi-residents-evacuated-hong-kong-health
3
Feel bad for the passengers and crew. I understand the danger of letting all off the ship, but seems like everyone on board is going to catch it as they are quarantined in such close quarters.
I'd never go on one of those huge germ boats; the frequency of norovirus outbreaks has been warning enough for this landlubber.
96
@LMT absolutely agree... these people have been exposed to the virus because of the conditions they are in... and this is a crime! I am surprised no one is doing anything about it. At least that I know of.
8
@LMT
Yup.
And from the standpoint of how horrible these companies are from an environmental standpoint. And how horrible it is from a legal standpoint in terms of jurisdiction if a crime such as rape is committed. Etc., etc. etc., etc....
Every aspect of cruise ship stuff is horrifying.
11
@LMT Exactly. It's a floating petri dish. What a nightmare.
6
It is time for the American government to step up and evacuate the hundreds of Americans passengers from that ship. Given the sizable U.S. military in Japan, there is surely the expertise and ability to conduct an evacuation. Then, if necessary, the Americans can be repatriated and quarantined at a base on American soil. Removing those passengers from the ship would ease the burden for everyone else, and give the cruise ship staff access to more comfortable accommodations for the duration of the quarantine.
24
@kaw7
They could be quarantined at American military bases in Japan.
1
I find it interesting that a majority of the comments here are self-congratulatory regarding not taking cruises. What I got from this article is that we are in a Downtown Abbey + coronavirus nightmare. Folks whose lives matter little are asked to serve others whose lives mean, from the sounds of it, just a tad bit more to the company. It's barbaric.
49
Prisons and cruise ships have a lot in common. Lots of people living and working in tight quarters, and at least while at sea, or during a forced quarantine, the inability to leave anytime you want. Likewise, both are large scale petri dishes of communicable diseases. On cruise ships, it's usually norovirus; prisons typically battle staph infections. I nearly lost a leg to staph my last stint.
I hated prison and never wanted to take a cruise ship. You pay in advance for a cruise. You're on the time payment plan in prison. Both can be bad for your health. I would council to avoid them both.
29
My wife and I have traveled worldwide for decades. Last year, we dipped our toes into cruising, with Viking Ocean Cruises, and found we enjoyed the experience. So we're taking another Viking cruise in a few weeks, this time to South America.
Are we reluctant to travel given the coronavirus outbreak and what's happened to the Diamond Princess? Not in the slightest. We plan our trips carefully and carry cancellation insurance. What happens along the way, happens. We don't worry too much about it.
As for the holier-than-thou who slam the cruise industry, I say this: Thanks for not taking cruises! You free up space on the ships for the rest of us.
16
@DaveSJ711 Time and chance happens to us all. As a cyclist, I once descended a mountain at 30MPH with about thirty pounds of gear and water. It was awesome, but I would never repeat the feat no matter how thrilling. I did my best to keep control of the bike and not cause an accident, and with utter focus and years of preparation, I made it. Except for this...
Two drivers weren't thrilled about trailing behind me, so they chose to pass without warning. I'd had tucked in at 1/3 of the single lane to prep for a right turn. They chose to use that space to pass me, without a single honk of the horn. I'm not taking a chance like that ever again.
Remember, time and chance.
3
The question I have is - why are they still operating their cruise ships? How are they allowed to do so? Especially in south-east Asia.
8
Keeping them trapped on a cruise ship is creating a plague ship. The contamination will spread more easily among people who are breathing from the same ventilation system and being fed by a crew that's going around to everyone, and picking up everyone's germs. It's foolish and cruel to quarentine them on the ship. They should be brought on land to a secure medical facility so that they won't be picked off one by one by being restrained on the ship. Ships are not designed to be biohazard containment centers.
36
This cruise ship named the Diamond Princess is owned by Carnival Cruises,Corporation and operated by Princess Cruises, a subsidiary. The corporation is based out of the US in Miami, Florida and evaluated in excess of 18 Billion dollars with Billions in profits annually. The current moored ship sails a British Flag. Yet Wikipedia has the Carnival Corporation labeled a British-American cruise operator with the only company with 2 international stock listings. They have a combined fleet of over a 100 vessels and 10 cruise ship "brands". They purposefully have a multi billion dollar/pound entangled corporate structure that is created to avoid taxes,criminal penalties environmental laws of toxic waste disposal in excess of 18 and 40 million dollars and I am afraid also avoiding labor laws and safety and security of their passengers and crews.
This is all about Corporate Greed and minimizing losses. The crew is also multinational mostly from third world countries with minimal labor rights-so I am guessing disposable. Carnival could afford to send their own private fleet with on board medical evacuation protocols and supplied tests, sterilized and medicines,etc, but they have already considered their losses and have to as the country of Port (Japan)is taking the blunt of containment and care . The passengers are also disposable I am afraid. They will be entitled to a "full refund" according to the company's website. That refund is a lot cheaper that emergency hospital care.
30
@Depleted
Several of those Carnival brands, such as Cunard and Holland-America, existed for decades before Carnival was formed Their subsequent purchase by Carnival was the only alternative that either company had to bankruptcy. On of my grandfathers emigrated to the United States on a Holland-America ship by trading his labor in the boiler room for passage.
The Holland-American ships on which I've cruised have Dutch officers just as Cunard's retain many aspects of their British history. In my experience,the ships have been quite safe and no, I do not see any point in moving the passengers from one confined space (the Diamond Princess) to another.
4
Which is why towns like Bar Harbor and other scenic anchoring spots should think twice about associating with these monstrosities.
They are too big. Ever hear one pull in at six in the morning and then, a couple of hours later after they've breakfasted, watch it disgorge its passengers?
In the best of times, such ships incubate stomach bugs and other maladies.
7
I don't understand at all why people couldn't be taken off the ship and quarantined on land. I would think that the virus would travel in the air throughout the ship. This is not a hospital quarantine set-up.
Why don't people already know that you are risking your health on board these ships? There's nowhere to run!
And, of course, people need to stop participating in a needless activity which causes injury and death to sea animals.
13
@Martha
Finding sufficient facilities on land won’t be that easy. And transporting the crew/passengers from ship to land quarantine could be risky as well.
5
Some years ago I decided that I did not want to travel on a large cruise ship because of the risk of illness. At that time it was norovirus I was worrying about.
I always imagined I was probably exaggerating the danger. Now that the new coronavirus has arrived, I guess I was actually right -- something of a surprise, because I don't always trust my own judgement.
24
Not to be confused with the Norovirus, or "cruise ship virus," or the winter vomiting bug. Most people survive but a lot don't, "results in about 685 million cases of disease and 200,000 deaths globally a year" Wiki
This virus spreads with ease as it takes very little of the virus to infect. No respiratory involvement usually, comes and goes in miserable few days. Fecal route to food and surfaces.
2
Is the air handler on a cruise ship one pass air or is it partially recirculated air? Is it absolutley confirmed viral particles cannot make it thru the recirculation system and not still be viable?
6
The cruise ship does not have a ventilation system that can filter out viruses so all you've done is create an experiment to see how rapidly this virus will spread.
At some point you will infect pretty much everyone since they are all in a contained space.
16
@cynicalskeptic
Maybe this is a covert WHO/China joint operation to quickly develop a vaccine by draining blood from the passengers and crew who do not get infected.
2
A few decades ago I was on a very short cruise from Long Beach to Ensenada. It whet my appetite for a more lengthy cruise, but kids came along so we opted to put that off for awhile.
My wife & I are starting to lose interest in a cruise, not just because of this but also because of the numerous instances of food borne illnesses such as e coli. Packing thousands of people into tight quarters with no government oversight of food handling practices just doesn't seem like a good idea.
17
@J Darby
Packing them in even with government oversight of food handling still doesn't seem like a good idea!
5
A reasonable mitigation step would be to park a second cruise vessel alongside allowing the uninflected crew and potentially some uninflected passengers to reside there. This would help limit the spread of the virus.
Of course this would be at a cost. Is the cruise line ready to do what it needs to do for the safety of the passengers?
23
I see a lot of vitriol here directed at Japan. In all fairness, it's important to note that Japan is not the "host" country or home port for this vessel, but merely a port-of-call. The vast majority of the passengers are not Japanese citizens. Consider how most Americans would feel if the US government allowed a ship carrying potentially hundreds of infected foreign nationals to disembark in New York City? Then you'll understand the position the Japanese government is in. However, I do believe the Japanese government are acting in good and they are doing the best they can under the circumstances. In any case ultimate responsibility falls squarely on the cruise line and its investors. What are they doing to solve the problem?
55
@tg
I agree. It would not have been unreasonable for Japan to simply deny entry of the ship to its waters. Then let the ship sail somewhere else. If no one will let them in, then the ship can go to its home port (which is probably Liberia).
This might give passengers pause to check the ship's registration when they book a cruise.
16
@tg Consider what this disease has done to China. It has shut down the second largest economy in the world. The economic consequences for them will be disastrous, and we are only beginning to see them. From Japan's perspective - the disease didn't originate there; as you mentioned, the ship or the company owning it is not even Japanese. Nor are a majority of the people on board. This falls ultimately on all the governments that have citizens on board to work together to solve the problem. Either that, or everyone is happy just to let the disease run its course on the ship and deal with the consequences in return for containing it within the ship. Just like the city of Wuhan is completely shut off.
12
What was before? Hen or egg? Let's ask about causality. Let us ask about the role of the Chinese communist system.
I've never been on a cruise. After reading this, I never will be, even if there is no current raging outbreak of anything.
16
Ever notice that cruise ships are registered in Libya? Libya takes their money and could care less on how the cruise ships operate. Ships should be registered to whatever port they frequent. For most that would be the USA, but then you have the pesky Coast Guard actually ensuring that they follow US maritime regulations. When was the last time someone took a cruise to Libya?
17
@Paulie: Liberia isn't Libya and Libya isn't Liberia. Get it? Duh....
5
@Paulie I believe it is Liberia for most of the cruise ships.
5
@Paulie Liberia isn't Lybia, as Bengladesh isn't Belarus, even Pompeo knows that.
4
Why Japan only test 439 people so far while Hong Kong already tested over 1000 Dream World cruise crew members. Lack of money? Lack of testing kits? By testing everyone, those tested positive could get treated and be quarantined separately from those tested negative.
“Japan’s health ministry said on Monday that so far it had tested 439 people on the ship for the coronavirus. That leaves more than 3,000 who have not been tested, receiving only initial health checks.”
4
@KL : Unlike Hong Kong, a port of embarkation for these cruise lines, Japan is only a port of call, and a short one at that. Responsibility for the health and welfare of the cruise ship passengers does not lie with Japan. On the other hand, Japan's primary responsibility is to protect its residents from the virus. Hence, quite properly, the ship is under quarantine.
10
What could be scarier?
I'm no expert, but hey, here goes...
Steer that boat to an island. Put distance between The WHO tent encampments there; a barrier between those testing positive, and those not yet.
Offer excellent food and proper medical care. Treat everyone with respect and honor their human dignity. Bill me and every other first-world citizen collectively for the cost of carrying this out.
When the illness abates, and a month has passed with no new infections, let folks return to their loved-ones.
25
@C. Whiting Have you checked with the islanders? Hint: like everyone else, they don't want to be infected. Oh, you want an uninhabited island? Those are scarce, and may turn out to be uninhabitable, too.
10
People who book vacations on enormous cruise ships are usually "first-world citizens," and they have health insurance.
Some of us first-world citizens of the middle class have our own expenses to worry about.
5
"Bill me"? Why? You know, some of us have our own expenses to worry about.
And no doubt most of those who booked cruise vacations are "first-world citizens." And they have health insurance.
Gosh.
2
Why on earth are crew members then expected to prepare meals for those guests trapped on board further increasing the likelihood of transmission of the virus. All the meals should be prepared off the ship and brought on board in sterile packaging to everyone - crew included.
keeping the crew together in confined spaces below decks whilst also expecting them to provide services (especially food preparation) to guests is a recipe for disaster which is clearly occurring.
91
@Mal Brown Because Japan apparently doesn't want to get their hands dirty saying excuses such as not having the capacity to test people, let alone preparing free meals to 3500 people multiple times a day. Japan at its heart is a nation that doesn't like foreigners. I can see how they are reluctant to help these poor crew members and passengers.
1
I'm not a doctor, nor do I even play one on TV, but doesn't this sound completely nuts?
I mean, clearly at least some people brought it on-board, but if you wanted to make sure as many passengers as possible would be infected, you couldn't pick any better way than to keep them all close together in a confined environment with shared air.
Surely there has to be some onshore location far better suited to both minimizing the spread of it as well as identifying and treating the infected? I mean, this is just making no sense.
It is a positive feedback loop of the worst sort. People have to be quarantined for two weeks (the approximate time it takes to show symptoms. But keeping them in close quarters for that period increases the risk of further transmission ... which will then need to lengthen the time on-board.
If new cases are still being discovered (as at least a few have been today), wouldn't that mean that anyone they'd been in a cabin with or had contact with then need to be watched for an additional two weeks?
Is there something I'm not seeing? (Serious question - any doctors in this discussion here? This genuinely makes no sense to me.) Is there any medically justifiable reason for handling this in what appears (to my untrained eye) to be the worst conceivable way?
66
I hope the passengers stay strong and will be able to leave soon.
11
Great article. Thank you for shedding light on the plight of the crew. I feel that they’ve been put into a position of being prison wardens. Am I right in assuming that once the 14 days is up, everyone is free to leave? And am I right in assuming that at that point in time, there will be some people who will perhaps be carrying the virus? If so, are they going to make everyone stay on the ship indefinitely? I feel like I’m not making sense, but at the same time how does 14 days work when people are continually coming into contact with one another via the crew?
24
'Like Europe in midieval times.' But we do not live in mideeval times but in a time where we are so interconnected internationally that fly around the world in a few hours and a virus can fly that far just as fast. And we assume that because we are modern with all our vaunted technology and medical techniques that we are immune from the ravages of nature. As such we become complacent in our arrogance and sloppy in our preparations. Like climate change we call the possibilities all a hoax and cut off funding for research and live in denial. Well, not all of us. There is a man living in a great big White House at the center of the world who does this everyday in his actions and rhetoric.
19
I hope by food, they are serving hot, well cooked stuff. No salads, cut fruits etc. And no meat please. Along with food make sure folks are given vitamins, especially D since they are cooped up indoors on a ship, this if they are not already taking them. Separate food trollies, no table cloths, no accessory decorations. How are they washing clothes? Eeks, common washers? What about sewage from bathing and bathroom. What are they doing to dispose off stuff? I sure hope the Japanese government is not being foolish in courting bigger disasters by not allowing the so far unsymptomatic people, to disembark to facilities which can be cordoned off. It is also galling to think Carnival cannot pay to get testing kits and instead depend on the Japanese govt. to supply them. They are a rather rich British-American enterprise who can afford pay for any supplies and kits. Please folks trapped on the ship, demand bottled water, kettles so you can drink hot teas.
Honestly it’s almost as it Corona is being made to become an awful monster of a disease through our amazing lack of planning on scale. Actually I won’t be surprised if folks get Norovirus and other horrid infectious bugs when staying in such close quarters. It is cruel to the ships staff, imagine the horror of cleaning people’s toilets daily, living in fear of infection. I sure hope we have warmer weather a bit early, it just might help all these poor, poor people just get off that completely contaminated boat.
8
@Meena Why would warmer weather help? That's a Trump soundbite and nothing more. Public health experts don't think there's any reason to expect this will dissipate just because of warmer weather.
6
@Meena From what I have seen, people are doing laundry by hand. I don't quite know if it's because major laundry has been shut down, or because people themselves don't want to mix their articles and have then them handled. Laundry services at this time makes no sense, and given as much as I have seen and read, it is possible that heard services were shut. But you know what, that adds more water for the sewage system to have to handle. 1,000s of people doing laundry manually uses more water than a hundred machine loads.
2
@NVS The CDC and WHO is actually hoping that warmer weather will ease the situation. The warmer weather usually lessens the impact of flu. They are hoping this follows that pattern.
1
A lot of comments here blaming Japan. A better question to ask would be - are the UK and the US offering to send airplanes to repatriate their citizens that are currently on the ship and take care of those of them infected? Of course not! No one wants anything to do with this illness. Everyone's #1 goal is to keep it away from their shores. So I really cannot blame Japan for doing the same.
13
Frankly, if I were on the Diamond Princess at this point I might just be hoping I tested positive so I could get off the ship and into a cleaner environment.
The US has many military installations in Japan. Don't they have some extra space somewhere where they could house those Americans so they could do their 14 day quarantine and get out of there? It sounds like the ship quarantine keeps getting extended because they keep finding more cases.
24
Frankly, if I were on the Diamond Princess at this point I might just be hoping I tested positive so I could get off the ship and into a cleaner environment.
The US has many military installations in Japan. Don't they have some extra space somewhere where they could house those Americans so they could do their 14 day quarantine and get out of there? It sounds like the ship quarantine keeps getting extended because they keep finding more cases.
2
Sounds like the exact opposite of what to do in a quarantine.
11
@Chris Morris
As the article noted, quarantines are intended to protect those on the outside.
It’s a kind of triage in a way.
2
I guess the U.S. Citizens aboard the cruise ship aren't quite worth what the citizens in China were worth thus not rating an evacuation. And our president is right where you'd expect ...AWOL or he's fresh out of paper towels and "thoughts and prayers."
17
I think the Japanese government (IOC?) should postpone the Olympics to 2021.
10
Quarantined and trapped on a hermetically sealed cruise ship with a know deadly contagious virus sounds worse than being buried alive in a coffin.
7
Cruise ships are not 'hermetically sealed'. There are outdoor areas, balconies, windows. Only difference vs hotels is that passengers are together for duration of cruise, vs a hotel, where people are coming and going daily, so much harder to track the spread of virus.
4
Doctors should study the outbreak on the cruise ship to learn from it--(sadly)--they way they are going, most people on the ship will get the virus. The ones that don't might have important antibodies that could help understand the virus and provide the basis for an effective vaccine...
5
This is an atrocity. The crew, especially the cooking staff, have been allowed to handle, prepare, and serve food to the passengers, when nobody actually knows how many of the crew members were initially exposed to the virus. Keep in mind that there is a 14-day incubation period, and for the crew members to be serving food inside a sardine can environment during this time is a time bomb waiting to go off. I am appalled that the passengers and crew were not segregated where the passengers could have been taken to shore and quarantined inside a gym or some other large building and have food prepared and delivered by trained personnel that have been given a clean bill of health to do so. I don't believe that, if this ship was tied up somewhere in the US, the USCG or CDC would have allowed this type of operation and consequentially make the situation worse.
27
Japan is expert at packaging food and understand the value of cleanliness and fresh food. Why are ready-to-eat packaged food being delivered to the ship? Maybe Japanese suppliers of airplane meals could step up and do the right thing?
3
I hear you- but let’s not frame this primarily on the crew passing to passengers. I believe a large point in this article is that the crew themselves are at greater risk than the passengers, primarily due to economic status and worse conditions than the passengers. Framing this discussion as primarily a concern about crew passing to passengers (which of course is a huge concern) neglects to include the disparate impact based on class.
32
Exactly Liz! I’m so worried for this crew.
5
What no one seems to get is that in the case of cross-infections working their way through a large enough population a quarantine doesn't work. This is especially true if we take into account that we don't know how effectively the virus can spread via air or via the crew. To wait on that ship is to wait to be the next to be infected.
The Japanese government has clearly not thought through this scenario, or if they truly have, they are sacrificing the safety of the people on board the ship to supposedly protect their nation, which won't work anyways because with each case of the virus people have to be taken off anyways.
The solution to force that government afraid of making any decisions in this case would be for some passengers to go against the grain and drop one of the lifeboats to make their dramatic (and newsworthy) escape to land. This would immediately focus the news story on the failures of the Japanese government to care appropriately for these people.
To wait in that environment is to wait for cross-infection to spread.
9
I've worked on and vacationed on cruise ships. The cabins generally run to tiny unless you pay a premium to get a larger cabin with an ocean view. The idea that I might get stuck in one of these interior, claustrophobic cabins would make me crazy. Most cruisers are there only to sleep or have a quick drink before going to dinner. Have compassion for these people...they are in a very rough situation.
69
This is inhumane and must be stopped!! How can they not have already tested everyone on the ship? Of course the Japanese have enough tests, they just don’t want to use them.
Test everyone and let them return to their home countries, especially the poor crew.
18
@Carole I've been wondering why more people aren't commenting on how cruel and inhumane this is, especially for the crew who are in close quarters. They really need to get everyone off that ship. It is just a breeding ground for the virus at this point.
7
to millennials one and all educated after the Western Cannon was murdered in its sleep I urge you to read Poe's "Masque of the Red Death."
13
Western cannons have murdered millions. The Western canon is alive and well.
They need to block air vents with clothes and open their balcony doors to provide external ventilation. Fans or manual pumps can be used to drive air outside. Setting items they receive, like towels, and boxes of instant noodles, outside in sunlight will kill viruses. They should be sitting outside instead of locked up in their rooms. Sunlight and UV light kills viruses. Sunshine is literally the best disinfectant.
This is a respiratory, airborne, virus.
They should be quarantined in smaller groups without shared air ventilation. We should remove our citizens to be quarantined in the US. This is a terrible way to quarantine. It guarantees most people in the quarantine will become infected.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15737151/
They will sue.
24
@PictureBook Most staterooms do not have balconies or even windows. There also is very little sunshine, as it is winter in Japan.
9
@PictureBook It's also in saliva, feces, and urine, apparently, so good luck with that.
1
@mileena Point of fact, the Diamond Princess is a modern cruise ship with 75% of passenger cabins having balconies.
1
This ship has 2,666 guests onboard. More than 400 passengers are from the United States, and at least 23 of them have been infected with the disease, according to a Princess Cruises spokesperson. (ABC News)
The statistics are frightening.
This is from Wikipedia:
"On 4 February 2020, the ship was in Japanese waters when 10 passengers were diagnosed with 2019 novel coronavirus during the 2019–20 Wuhan coronavirus outbreak. A total of 3,700 passengers and crew were quarantined by the Japanese Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare for what was expected to be a 14-day period, off the Port of Yokohama.[11] On 6 February, 10 cases were identified.[12] On 7 February, the total number of people on board with confirmed coronavirus infections grew to 61.[13][14] Another three cases were detected on 8 February, bringing the total to 64.[15] Six cases were detected on 9 February, while another 66 were detected on the 10 February, bringing the total to 136"
Something needs to be done very fast before more people die. In 6 days this illness has spread from 10 to 136 passengers. This is a tragedy.
Princess cruise is owned by Carnival Corporation and pic. the company's headquarters are in California
the company was made famous by the American TV series " The love boat".
6
I'm not sure Princess was owned by Carnival when they did that TV show. Believe was different ownership then.
2
So then if the ship is registered in the US would the US not have some power to tell the ship where to go, what to do?
1
@Padman
The ship is not registered in the United States
the "experts" are straining to ignore the obvious and calm those who can see over the horizon...wide spread of the virus "...not inevitable but certainly possible...plausible.."
Prof Paul Hunter; SKY News minutes ago
3
And why has no one gone overboard and made a swim for it? And if someone did, exactly what would the authorities do about it? There has got to be a better solution than keeping these people locked up on this ship.
7
@AR Among other things, it's winter in Japan, and jumping from the higher heights on the ship would be equivalent to jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge - suicide.
4
@NVS The Golden Gate bridge is about twice as high, but it still wouldn't be good for a number of reasons to jump off the ship.
What a nightmare like something out of science fiction that these people are trapped on a Death Ship. I hope this company has plenty of insurance because they have kept these people prisoners and should have taken them to the nearest port -- virus or no virus. Crazy and possibly illegal.
6
This ship has 2,666 guests onboard. More than 400 passengers are from the United States, and at least 23 of them have been infected with the disease, according to a Princess Cruises spokesperson. (ABC News)
This is a very sad situation. Can the US government do something about this? Are the Japanese handling this tragedy properly?
What is going on in this ship is frightening, very sad and unfortunate.
The ship has already become host to the highest concentration of coronavirus cases outside China. There are 2500 passengers on this ship and 135 are already tested positive for the virus.
There are more than 1000 are employees in the ship and at least 10 crew members are already infected. "The crew members are being forced to stay together" and they are serving meals to the passengers.
I feel very sorry for the crew and the passengers.
11
Im confused why the US govt is not involved considering the cruise company is a US company...can they not call the ship home, and then divide up the passengers? Are there not enough Trump supporters on the ship to warrant US intervention?
1
What do you expect?
The ship is like a Petri dish in the laboratory....an incubator for infectious disease. They can't get away from each other.
5
Remove all passengers and quarantine them in decent hotels, at the cruise line's expense. Now. The cruise lines have made millions off people and now it is time to ante up and save lives. They are probably insured for all of this.
No doctors, no medicine, no nurses, no monitoring equipment. It's an infection nightmare.
Somebody spend some money and get this fixed! Move these poor people off this ship and into decent facilities!
43
I don’t know why anyone would ever go on a cruise.
19
@Third.Coast
I guess that the growth and popularity of the cruise industry might suggest that lots of people enjoy cruising. Different strokes for different folks. I don't understand why people like chocolate ice cream.
6
Why not? People smoke, ride helicopters, ski, eat potato chips, etc.
Nothing like a holiday on a crowded ship to remind us of the numerous times people got sick with Legionnaires' disease while on cruises, to remind us of plague ships' stories...
11
Imagine if the ship were full of mainly Japanese citizens parked in US waters, stuck onboard with almost 4,000 potential coronavirus patients from other countries.
Wow, they would be freaking out!
2
There actually are a lot of Japanese onboard according to news reports. What’s confusing is why they don’t send the ship home.
the cruise ship quarantine is analogous to the hospitals and health care workers in Wuhan.
4
This all started in those horrible wild animal and endangered species markets.
I hope they are closed forever. This is what happens when you mess with Mother Nature.
34
I’ll be canceling any plans for the rest of my life to do any cruise shipping. 
13
Couldn’t pay me a million bucks to take a cruise after this nightmare not that I was going to anyway but this just confirms my decision.
26
An imprisionment that none of the passengers or crew could have imagined when they stepped on board.
Princess Cruises should offer their staff and passengers extensive medical coverage when their nightmare is over. Many staff and passengers may experience PTSD.
9
the silver lining to this outbreak could well be the death of cruise ship industry...along with the reduction of China's oil consumption and jet traffic.
17
What a wonderful solution they came up with. Isolate passengers and crew in a confined space where contact is inevitable, where the virus can spread easily through ac systems, from crew to crew, food preparer to passenger, unabated.
Talk about bad planning.
Poor passengers. Poor crew.
No amount of refunds and free trips will compensate for the damage done to the pax, the crew and the cruise line.
God forbid that one dies. The law suit will be astronomical. Let alone the impact on an innocent through appalling management of the situation.
14
This exactly the reason I never do cruises. They are the perfect breeding grounds for all sorts of epidemics. Besides being environmental blights in so many ways... So many good vacations ruined by hordes of cruise goers descending on the given location.
13
This is like a bad cable channel Sci-Fi movie.
12
As a frequent participant in luxury cruises I have great empathy for the impossible situation in which passengers find themselves. This is a passengers worst nightmare. You are in a virtual prison that itself is an environment for spreading the virus.This is Twilight Zone 2020. Be brave for those on board who may read this comment. And good luck.
15
@Milton Lewis I hope you have similar sympathy for the crew. Their situation strikes me as even more precarious, which I believe is the focus of this article.
25
This is the most outrageous, racist thing I have witnessed in my entire life. Out of everyone on this boat these are the most likely people to get sick and they are all clustered together to spread the disease among themselves?
Are they a different breed of people with innate immunity or is it just that their lives don't matter as much as everyone else on a true "quarantine?"
How can this even be called a quarantine if passengers and staff are still exposed to the most recent case? Then the clock starts over.
Why isn't everyone on the ship taken off, tested and the ones who are negative quarantined in a government facility like the ones in the states? The ones who test positive can be quarantined in the hospital.
29
The threat of contagion aboard the Diamond Princess must elicit a fear among the victims that feels like that felt by the passengers and crew of the Titanic. Only, this is in slow motion. It is beastly to keep all those people incarcerated in a floating disease chamber.
16
@ladps89
It could be more beastly to move them off the ship and spread the virus into the general population.
That’s why quarantines exist. To protect the greater number, and yes, at the expense of the smaller number.
2
I wondered about is bringing in more cruise ships (one or two), and getting those poor souls out of the windowless inside cabins - especially those with kids. It would also allow some space to spread out the staff on board.
Alternatively, perhaps Trump Inc. could do something philanthropic and offer up some of their empty hotels - not gonna happen.
There are also some very large US armed forces basis in Okinawa and elsewhere in Japan. In Canada, Canadians have been repatriated to such a place in Ontario.
There is also a 1000 patient care capacity (including intensive care) on the USNS Comfort currently in the Caribbean, and USNS Mercy with a similar capacity. Other nations, such as China, have smaller hospital ships, although the UK does not appear to have one.
7
I agree the different countries involved should be doing MUCH more to get their citizens to better quarantine facilities.
@Janice Howard,
“Alternatively, perhaps Trump Inc. could do something philanthropic and offer up some of their empty hotels - not gonna happen.”
Definitely not gonna happen, especially as Donald Trump is a self-proclaimed “germaphobe”.
However, perhaps someone might whisper in Trump’s ear, “Sir. If you run for president again, most of your MAGA-hatted fans will catch the coronavirus.”
He loves to be called “Sir”, so it just might work!
1
@Janice Howard
it speaks to what governments are really thinking...they are husbanding their resources and staying frosty as they have a more informed view of what lies ahead.
1
Can’t the ship land on a mostly deserted island or shore where the passengers and crew can separate a bit and not be trapped together in close quarters? And have supplies airlifted in regularly? That would seem to decrease transmission among them...
11
@Anna I reasoned as much, but the islands around Yokohama have small populations. They don't want to 'contaminate' anything prior to the Olympics. About the only place available is Hashima Island which is on the other side of the country, but then the logistics of food and medicine would go through the roof.
5
@Anna There are no facilities in a deserted island.
1
@Anna
It’s winter. Are you going to trade the risk of hypothermia without proper shelter for that of possible infection?
How many passengers and crew have clothing, sleeping bags, etc sufficient for living in a tent? Assuming enough tents can be provided in the time needed.
1
I don't understand what the endgame is here. The original intent of the 14-day quarantine was to make sure that anybody who had been initially infected would be showing symptoms by the time the quarantine was lifted, as up to a 14-day incubation period was suspected. But now, you have people that are very likely getting infected on the ship, since the quarantine started. Doesn't that reset the clock on the length of quarantine needed?
33
@Kristin Yes. The clock is resetting.
4
@Janice Howard No, according to the tweet of Princess Cruises, the last day of the quarantine is February 19.
Then it’s an utterly useless - less than useless in fact given the spread happening during - quarantine. Why are credible health authorities not making noise about that?
One more reason to never ever go on a cruise. Eventually everyone on this ship will either have the virus or be found to be immune. At the point epidemiologists will have the perfect scenario to test the ones who remain immune, and perhaps find clues into making an effective vaccine.
19
"Unlike the passengers they serve, most of whom come from wealthy nations, the ship’s employees are overwhelmingly from developing countries like India and the Philippines."
Given that the number of infections continues to increase even as they passengers remain isolated in their cabins, it's possible that crew members are inadvertently spreading the virus. What a shame that these workers seem to have nobody to advocate for their safety and well-being.
45
The best thing to do right now is to take everyone including staff, off the ship and put into quarantine. Those kept in their cabins along with the staff can become infected at any time. Enough already. Take everyone off the ship. It's the only way.
36
A few years ago, I caught viral pneumonia from the high school where I was teaching. It took two failed antibiotics before they found the right one to treatment. At the age of 35, I felt like I was on my last legs. I couldn't walk more than five steps, had to use a ventilator, and lost about 10 lbs. I was out for 5 weeks, but slowly recovered. At least 5 other teachers also developed the same thing. Infections spread quickly in shared spaces, but even more so on cruise ships and airplanes. People often don't think of these risks, and I still take precautions to this day after my ordeal. Sadly, they are not always enough. Best wishes to these crew/passengers and hopefully it will be contained soon.
33
@JM Self-Correction: "bacterial pneumonia"
7
@JM I can't believe this comment has so many recommendations.
Viruses do not respond to antibiotics (since, you know, biota = alive, and viruses are not alive), so you did not have viral pneumonia.
2
@NVS I corrected my mistake. It was bacterial. See first comment after. I was indeed very ill and it took me a long time to recover. Everyone is entitled to mistakes and sharing their experiences. No need for criticism.
9
This is a horror movie. We used to be frequent Princess cruisers, but I have no desire to step foot on any cruise line ship again. My heart breaks for the employees crammed into such tight quarters, forced to work 12 hours a day. While the conditions are much better than what employees must endure, it would not be a picnic either as a passenger quarantined in a claustrophobic interior room. I pray that Japanese officials will soon remove these people off the ship. This is not sustainable.
31
@Cat -- Princess Cruise is not doing the right thing. Everyone on this ship needs to be evacuated -- at once. It's clear that the virus continues to grow and infect people. Remove everyone. NOW!
9
I'm going to take the hint and not travel so much!
Just kidding. I never travel. Happy and healthy where I am.
10
@HoneyBee
Travel expands my horizon. Which I need, given how much I pour over the NYT and my computers !
5
@HoneyBee Different strokes for different folks. It's better to take fewer quality vacations and stay where workers are treated fairly and are paid well. I loved exploring Pittsburg and Philadelphia off the beaten path. The architecture is just grand if you know where to look. If you like cruises, then just go down the Danube or cruise around Polish rivers. Heck, the Czech Republic has pristine castles with every stone in place from the day of their completion. Like I said, you gotta know where to look.
If people are more demanding and informed, then cruise lines would up their game. Instead, they cater to the hedonistic waste of ignorant travelers. Some ships have even been cut in half to add length and more cabins and amenities. The newest ships are topping one billion dollars in cost. Yes, many a German and Italian workers, tradesmen, and craft workers draw good salaries and living, but there has to be a better way. To put in perspective one cruise ship is about two medium hospitals or three SpaceX rockets worth of man hours. Some deity is looking down on us and shaking her head.
The world is feeling more and more dystopian.
20
And the die-hard evangelical (fundamentalist, to the German readers for whom “Evangelical” just means “Lutheran”) voters, speakers, and funders who support Trump actively want and work to create and hasten global dystopia, since they believe that doing so will sooner open a door for their messiah and what they think is promised after that.
Kind of an ironic twist on that good ol’ “Good News” message.
4
it isn't the coronavirus to be concerned about as much as it is the economic collapse that is building.
real estate and financial fraud aren't the only things that can lead to global economic collapse.
7
63,000 people died in the US in 2019 from flu .
1
@April
"Tencent may have accidentally leaked real data on Wuhan virus deaths
"Tencent briefly lists 154,023 infections and 24,589 deaths from Wuhan coronavirus"
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3871594
4
The worst place to be sick is a hospital or a ship at sea. Since the concentrated isolation seems designed to sweep thorough the closed loop population. The key difference being the quality and quantity of professional health and medical care in a hospital as opposed to a ship.
15
The average age of Diamond Princess passengers is quite high. A lot of retired couples, many with preexisting medical conditions. There has been no info about the passengers of the ship in HK. You might recall that when the first bad news arrived (the man from HK who had visited China before boarding the ship was found infected), DP still allowed passengers socialise actively. I guess there will be litigations. Not one, may be two as crews would also regard the current conditions of work negligently endangering their health.
9
@Rather not being here -- you write: "I guess there will be litigations". As there should be since the management of this cruise ship is not acting in the interest of the passengers and the crews. Instead of keeping everyone on this polluted ship, everyone needs to be evacuated and put into isolation. Why wait until everyone remaining on the ship has become infected? Seems the ship's closed environment is the perfect incubator. Evacuate everyone -- NOW!
7
Thanks for bringing to the attention of your readers the life and challenges of the crew. I saw on the BBC a video of British tourist indicating that it was an inconvenience but that they were doing fine aboard the cruise ship. I also agree with one of the commenters that more attention needs to be focused on wet markets as a reservoir and subsequent amplifier of the these virus that can spill over to humans.
13
We just got off our annual singer songwriters charter cruise on the Norwegian Pearl. We were especially concerned for the wonderful staff and their living conditions. Our excellent cabin steward, a young Chinese man, lived in a refrigerator sized room with four roommates. We are questioning whether we would be wise to do this trip again. The entire cruise business needs to be examined and downsized. These ships may be better employment than these folks would have at home, but as they become incubators of disease, something must be done.
27
Do you visit the quarters of stewards on all your cruises?
2
This seems like a nightmare
16
Sorry about the crew and passengers, but these ship are nothing more then flying Petri dishes, the time between cruises can't be enough time to give a deep clean, it more like the airlines unload and re-go, money wasting. Just think of the waste these ships create on each cruises and most ends up in the sea.
20
@Joe That would be a floating Petri dish. Still contagious though.
3
From the princess (dot) com website:
"Since it is early in the quarantine period of 14-days, it was not unexpected that additional cases would be reported involving individuals who were exposed prior to the start of the quarantine."
With 45 Japanese infected and 21 from other countries (USA 11), the fecal matter is just about to hit the fan, if it hasn't already, both metaphorically and ...
6
Is there any reason the count of cases for the cruise ship does not show up on the WHO dashboard at: http://who.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html
2
I hope they have thought of adapting the heating, ventilating and air conditioning system so that it is set for 100% make up air. In other words all of the air from the cabins and other habitable quarters on the ship would be exhausted and not recirculated as would usually be done. All the replacement air would be brought in from the exterior of the ship and either heated or air conditioned before being distributed to the cabins. All the outside air would have to be brought in from a source that is well away from air exhausted from the ship so as to prevent contamination.
12
@Denis
Me thinks, too little, too late
2
Disequal danger to the rich and the poor. Shocker! Not.
12
All Aboard the SS Petri Dish!!
19
Mutiny!!!
8
I’m not sure if this new viral sensation is all that great. Seems like a lot of viral things that go around these days in that it’s mostly hype. Not much different from a cold or flu other than the attention it gets on the news.
The part of it that gets me that has been glossed over is the fact that people eat cats, monkeys, rats and tiger balls and then get sick.
Time to radicalize the food industry and get away from cruel inhuman and dangerous practices.
NOW!
22
@Uncle Peevish
and Phoenix rises from the ashes to whine about dairy cattle...
3
@Mary Elizabeth Lease
Who knew the Joker cared about the fate of calves?!
I fully understand the risks that all on board are taking and that many of the crew are surely going above and beyond in what I can only imagine to be a living hell.
But, raising a practical question in response to the statement that the "crew is highly trained in safety, etc." -- at what point does a person reach his or her breaking point? They may be trained to handle an emergency -- a fast-moving crisis that can encompass any number of things. This is an event with no end in sight.
The majority of the crew are likely not "professionals" in the regard that they have been trained to handle a prolonged crisis, yet they are being counted on to be responsible beyond what most of us could endure for more than a day.
And finally -- and I know that this is the least of concern for some, but not for all -- how will they be compensated for their service? This is well beyond the call of duty.
For all intents and purposes, "the cruise" has been over for a while. Many cruise line employees rely on passenger tips upon debarkation. That's pretty much a non-event for these employees.
God bless them all.
45
@nyshrubbery I don't know if the crew are working any harder than they normally would (it's hard work!). Many of them are working less (the entertainment staff, for example). Your point about tips is valid, and certainly there may be mental stress from the situation. But it's not like these are hotel employees that would normally go home at the end of the day.
1
@JayNYC Logically, the ship's crew gets a break when passengers make ports of call. Cooking prep, cleaning, and laundry goes on, but I am sure that they stagger the staff. I think that they have stopped major laundry services due to the risk of exposure.
Anyway, this is nothing like being stuck in traffic on your way to a client. Like it or not, this is significant time out of their lives, and I am sure that some of them had requested personal time to visit family. Who are we to judge how other people value their time? There is no hazard pay coming to these folks, and they have lost their tips. There are families in India and the Philippines who need the remittances. The owners of the Diamond Princess will not come through for those families.
9
Don't get scruised folks. I'm with my Indian brothers on this one. Anyone who's seen the "Patriot Act" episode on the cruise industry knows that the working conditions and protections are hell. These folks live in tiny rooms with bunk beds, that double as food stores! Yes folks, before the outbreak Binay probably slept next to bushels of potatoes. I had to take notes as I read this article. The list of stupidities practically ran off the page. Way to go /Royal Princess/ there is nothing in this world that you will not do to save a penny and maximize your profits. You had better hope that no one dies on this 'scruise'.
PS: Finally, NYT you're getting off your high horse and going down to the bilge.
41
@Marcos Mota
“ These folks live in tiny rooms with bunk beds, that double as food stores!”
Hmm, sounds like one of the 10-20 American nuclear submarines on patrol right now.
Very clean - no epidemics.
2
@A B Wait, you're comparing 3 billions dollar military subs to pleasure cruise ships? We've come a long way from the 'HMS Bounty' and 'Das Boot'. The air handling systems on modern subs are the genesis for what is used on the ISS, and about the same is true for the technology that makes air and recycles water.
Let's get back to the make up of the crews. Submariners are probably better selected than any other type of enlisted men. Their discipline and mental makeup are probably on the same level as crane operators, surgeons, deep sea divers, and miners.
You must think that I just got my brain yesterday. I can't even list the battery of medical tests which they need to pass before they embark on missions. And if someone in the US Navy thinks it's a good idea to truck a sub's supplies right from a random, wholesale warehouse onto the boat, please fire that person. I bet that stuff is quarantined, refrigerated, and irradiated/UV light-washed before it's loaded.
On the whole the crews, technology, organization, medical care and cleanliness of subs/crews are worlds apart from a pleasure cruise. Lastly, extra points for trying to minimize the poor working conditions of men and women who desperately need their jobs, for their's and their extended families' sakes.
2
I really feel for the people trapped on this ship. Their ordeal is my version of Hell (well, one of them anyway. I've discovered many new ones since November 2016. For instance, it's my version of Hell to have my children taken away from me and locked in cages with no way of figuring out a pathway to liberate them and be reunited.
41
As of 8 February, 64 individuals were found to have been infected with 2019-nCoV among passengers and crew members. All individuals testing positive were disembarked and admitted for medical care in infectious disease hospitals in the Yokohama area. Close contacts of the infected passengers are asked to remain in quarantine for 14 days from last contact with a confirmed case. Thus, the quarantine period will be extended beyond the 19 February as appropriate only for close contacts of newly confirmed cases.
6
@mc
Did not post the credits for the above
.....From WHO
https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200209-sitrep-20-ncov.pdf?sfvrsn=6f80d1b9_4
4
I live in a small remote city in Alaska that welcomes at least 20 cruise ships each year. Most of these cruise ships have populations larger than our city. Our hospital has a very limited ability to care for sick cruise passengers and even less space on a very busy dock for an extended cruise ship docking. Please people, think carefully before you get on one of these ships.
53
@Karole perhaps it might be good if your small, remote city bans these behemoths. The cruise ships are destroying the environment.
2
@Jackson They begin arriving in May and last through September.
1
The Indian crew member who asked his government to free him from the ship seems to have overlooked his contractual agreement with Princess Cruises. Governments may intervene possibly to remove passengers bt the crew is a different story.
It sounds as though 84 year old Ayako Jinnai is traveling alone. Traversing a cruise ship holds many dangers for young fit people, windy conditions, wet decks, boarding on/off bobbing tenders, etc, I am amazed no family member accompanied her on this trip.
8
What a difficult situation for everyone on this ship. As an immunosuppressed individual (thanks to great drugs that give me much improved quality of life), I am of necessity a germaphobe. Thankfully, most people don't have to worry too much about getting sick, but I have to be ever observant; wipe down surfaces on grocery carts; keyboards; remote controls; door handles; table trays on airplanes; hotel room high touch surfaces; use a knuckle on an elevator button. Hand sanitizer used and hands washed ad nauseum. How difficult to get so many people (passengers & crew) on this ship into new habits overnight in order to minimize their risk. Are their food trays being sanitized? Are delivery personnel wearing disposable gloves? Who is supervising the employees and insuring hand scrubbing? How often are high touch surfaces in common areas being Cloroxed? Why aren't we hearing details re. these type precautions?
15
@Catherine In my experience as a frequent cruiser, the crew is HIGHLY trained in these procedures, as they deal with outbreaks of Norovirus all the time.
5
@Gabrielle
Fair point re. the training. I would add that the frequent Norovirus outbreaks speak to the possibility of less than rigorous adherence. It could be a frequency issue re. sanitizing hi touch surfaces. And, of course, the passengers are not trained.
In this case, considering the novelty of the virus and seemingly easy transmission, the game has to be upped to medical standards imo. Hard to do.
3
Floating Petri dishes - cruise ships. Viral and bacterial infections are common on cruise lines. Avoid them.
37
To anyone on board the ship who is reading these comments, know that many around the world are wishing you well, and wellness.
Sure hope the cruise boat company or the Japanese government, or at least the Japanese Red Cross is providing ample free, highly-qualified and CISM-trained confidential and legally-privileged individual psychological counseling and group mental heath care for all on board, and on an ongoing basis for the duration of the quarantine. Although not ideal to do so, it’s easy enough to provide such services via both telephone and video conference (with proper protections of privacy). Failure to do so further endangers those onboard, both in the immediate and the long-term.
10
@MSW
Very good points.
Blatant negligence, even torture, not to provide highly-skilled, free, and easily-accessible mental health care.
The U.N. Human Rights Commission should be monitoring the situation. Personal-injury and other liability lawyers surely are.
1
And providing the care in passengers’ (and crew) native language.
1
What country is the ship registered with, and who is ultimately responsible for it? This current situation can’t go on indefinitely, as they will likely all either catch the virus or succumb to despair. Don’t some of those still healthy people have jobs they need to return to or risk losing? There does not seem to be any plan.
11
@Laume The company that owns the ship is headquartered in California.
@Michael : Just because the company is headquartered in California doesn't mean the ship is flagged there. Cruise ships are never registered in the United States (well, there is one ship -- literally just one). Google "flag of convenience" to learn more.
How the Japanese government is coping this situation is truly disappointing. Suppose coronavirus is cleared before the olympic and the game opens as scheduled. What would happen if the corona virus erupts again during the game? Would Japanese government confine 20 thousand players and countless visitors to the players village just like they are treating the passengers on this ship now?
23
@Sam Ah, I think that their reasoning has taken into account "contaminating" the main islands prior to the games. Japan needs the tourism money, so it seems that's why they are loathe to even let the ship into port permanently. I hate that they have to be selfish, but Fukushima continues to add costs beyond one trillion dollars. If they have gotten the public to turn away their attention from that disaster, they certainly don't want to take on this one in the form of a docked ship.
I looked on gMaps for islands near Yokohama and they all seem inhabited. It's a big ask to keep the ship moored at Oshima Island, but it has both a port and airport.
1
@Sam What a great comment!!
On a separate-but-related topic, this article reminds me of Neil Gorsuch's verdict on an employee who left his truck to save his own life and was fired for it. Naturally, Gorsuch's opinion was that the employee's paramount duty was to stay with the merchandise in the truck, regardless of risk to his life. In this situation, straight out of a medical thriller, where employees are confined to their place of work, turning it into a literal death trap, all rights stripped away, it is a true horror show. Is it not possible to enact a quarantine while also protecting human rights? After this, I wonder how easy cruise lines will find it to get employees from any country.
56
I am with you but I am afraid there will never be a shortage of people desperate enough to make a living, provide for their families of simply save some money. Let’s not fool ourselves. I’m most parts of the world there is no middle class life. Jobs are scarce, and signing on with a crew ship means months of regular income.
4
All passengers and crew on this ship need to be removed and quarantined immediately. It is amazing that health specialists haven't made very clear that isolation techniques used in hospitals and treatment centers use _negative pressure_ rooms. to isolate air flow from ill patients These rooms are designated specially equipped to prevent cross contamination from _contaminated air flow_. To have kept passengers and crew confined onboard creates a living petri dish. Without the proper equipment ie, negative pressure rooms, those on this ship are being made ill in a negligent and incompetent manner. Unbelievable health specialists haven't publicized the negative effect of confinement.
92
The Japanese government has essentially imprisoned uninfected people with infected people in close quarters, vastly improving their chances of catching the virus.
A saner approach would have been to have removed the infected to a segregated quarantine hospital as they manifested and quarantined the remainder elsewhere, there to remove those as they manifested.
27
@Ironmike it takes 14 days until symptoms show. It spreads before people are symptomatic. How do you get over 3,000 people sorted, removed, and placed in quarantine and where should that be located? The logistics are staggering. The cruise line is responsible for their passengers and their employees. Japan doesnt want potentially 3,000+ cases of this in their country. I dont blame them. I blame the cruise operators.
Thank you for the 135 additional reasons to reinforce why I will never set foot on a "cruise" ship of any kind.
71
@Kevin you sound like my wife I guess she was right all along.
1
Trap healthy and sick people in tight spaces with poor air circulation. What could possibly go wrong?
The only way that ship empties out is when everyone has gotten sick, which will happen.
30
In all the reporting on the corona virus, I haven't seen anyone address the question: Once you get it and recover, are you immune?
9
@Katy Very very likely recovered are immune. Most viral diseases you can only get once. Yes, you get colds every year, but there are something like 700 different virus strains that cause 'colds'.
However there are a few exceptions. Example: Measles can hide and re-occur as shingles. We will not know this for years if this virus has a similar pattern.
2
@Phil
chickenpox--> shingles, not measles.
6
@Phil Nope, measles does not re-emerge as shingles. Chicken pox, on the other hand, can.
4
Very likely no one on that ship is Japanese. Thus the Japanese government could not care less about the people on board. They only care about keeping them isolated from the Japanese populace.
7
@Eric Harold 28% of the passengers are Japanese, including one mentioned in the article, whose daughter was trying to deliver food to her. And yes, the Japanese government is trying to do what is best for the whole population of Japan.
8
@MW And 45 of the most recently diagnosed passengers are Japanese, according to The Guardian.
5
@Eric Harold
You might want to read the article to the end. The woman quoted whose mother is on the ship has a Japanese name and surname.
2
The management of this situation on cruise ships appears to be an utter disaster!
Having thousands of people locked in a semi closed environment, re-breathing infected air, is unbelievably poor management.....it reeks of scientific (microbiology) and medical ignorance compounded by what appears to be a financial decision to limit money expenditure: moving people to an onshore location for quarantine, off of the cramped ship.....
On ship infectious epidemics seem to be routine now, especially w cruise ship companies making larger boats that can house many more people......
We can only pray that a microbe (viral, bacterial,etc) akin to the Ebola virus never breaks out on one of these floating petri dishes!
14
The Japnese authorities have been callous and reckless on this issue from day one.
13
The japanese govt needs to get off their bum and take responsibility of all ship passengers and crew and start thinking of reducing the number of passengers on the ship who have no symptoms and move them into hotels / govt owned housing that have agreed to quarantine measures and get them to finish their quarantines there. Then the ship crew can start having space for themselves in self-quarantine. This can become a national crisis situation quickly if there are 1000 + new cases that need to be treated.
10
Quoting from the ship's website https://www.princess.com/news/notices_and_advisories/notices/diamond-princess-update.html
Feb 4, 2020: "Princess Cruises can confirm that the first phase of health screening of all guests and crew onboard Diamond Princess, by the Japanese Ministry of Health, has been completed. We were notified that amongst the samples that have completed testing, 10 people have tested positive for Coronavirus."
Feb 6: "Princess Cruises can confirm the nationalities of the 41 people who were tested positive for Coronavirus ...The Japanese Ministry of Health has confirmed this is the last batch to be tested and ..."
Quoting from this article published Feb 10, 2020: "Japan’s health ministry said on Monday that so far it had tested 439 people on the ship for the coronavirus." and "on Monday as Japan’s health ministry said that an additional 65 people had tested positive for the virus, nearly doubling the total to 135."
What a tragedy unfolding in front of the world, a microcosm of Wuhan.
13
The fact that Japan let the crew live in those cramped quarters was monumentally stupid. If the virus is indeed transmissible by air and it is viable for up to 10 days, I suspect that all of the crew are now infected. Since the crew members prepared and delivered meals and cleaned rooms, the entire ship's complement should be considered exposed to the virus.
Thus, they should all be removed from the ship and placed in a larger space where they all can be isolated from each other. Keeping everybody on the ship is just a morbidity and mortality experiment.
23
@JAR
What larger space do you recommend? The Japanese said it had no facilities large enough to house everyone on the ship. If the crew is removed, the passengers have to be removed as well as they cannot tend to themselves aboard the ship.
1
Perhaps they could split them up. US military facilities in Japan ought to have enough space for the Americans currently on the ship. The Japanese ought to have some sort of facilities that could house Japanese on the ship -- and maybe some other nationalities as well. Perhaps countries in Asia or Oceania could repatriate their citizens by plane & then quarantine them in home countries.
Let my people go!
4
@PoliticalGenius
And possibly infect others?
1
I sincerely hope Princess Cruise Lines gives every staff member aboard the Diamond Princess a cash bonus worth at least 25% of their yearly salary and 4 weeks paid vacation. Despite being “highly trained in safety and public health standards,” the crew has little chance of not being exposed to the virus.
You can be pretty sure PCL will be offering a free cruise to the passengers after this misfortune.
5
@Kate Yes - Passengers have received a letter stating they will receive a full refund on their cruise, as well as a future cruise credit equal to their cruise fare. So, a free cruise in addition to a full refund.
2
@Qex
I bet few will want to board that particular ship again, "cleaned" or not.
2
This is sad, the cruel and inhumane treatment of the crew reeks racism. In many ways, the slow death imposed here is worse than the cure offered by the army in Zaire in the movie Outbreak.
4
May this be the death knell for the hideous cruise ship industry.
23
Separate, but related comment: Cancel Cruise Ships.
11
After 14 days...then what?
From the Maritime Bulletin ...
“Ghost Ship WESTERDAM refused entry country after country, no port to dock
Hapless cruise ship WESTERDAM with 1257 people on board has become a Flying Dutchman, a ship from techno thriller movie – she’s rejected entry by country after country, port after port, and her present port of destination is unclear. The ship is (was) on a 14-day Taiwan & Japan cruise, she departed Hong Kong on February 1, with 1455 passengers and 802 crew on board. WESTERDAM was scheduled to call Japanese Ishigaki Island, Naha, Okinawa, Nagasaki and Fukuoka (Hakata), and complete her cruise in Yokohama on February 15.
That cruise had been canceled shortly after it started, after the Japan banned WESTERDAM from visiting any port in the country. The ship headed for Manila, but she was banned ... After some time spent on high seas, on Feb 4 she arrived at Kaohsiung Taiwan, to be expelled from Kaohsiung next day, for the same reason of coming from Hong Kong, based on the same fears.
As of morning Feb 10, WESTERDAM is steaming in South China sea in southwest direction, port of destination not identified. It may be Vietnam, it may be Thailand, it may be Singapore. The problem is, the ship has to dock somewhere sometime soon, she can’t sail oceans forever, like a Ghost Ship from legends.”
https://www.maritimebulletin.net/2020/02/10/ghost-ship-westerdam-refused-entry-country-after-country-no-port-to-dock/
17
@mc
The ship is headed for Bangkok now with entry approved, supposedly.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-11/westerdam-cruise-to-port-in-bangkok-after-being-stuck-at-sea/11950230
I know the object of any news organizations is to draw eyes and interests to their Newspaper, they are businesses after all. Still the fear mongering over this one virus is way over the top. Here are the pertinent statistics about the Corona Virus from WHO:
80% of the cases are mild needing no hospitalization
15% require hospitalization but will recover
3%-5% of people will need intensive care
2% of cases are fatal
As with most epidemics the number in all categories go down in time, as more and more people recover and build the antibodies that fight off the virus. All-in-all China's very aggressive approach to the virus seems to be paying off.
As always the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
7
@Lonnie Thank you for taking an eagle eye view of the situation. As a fortunate frequent cruiser, what amazes me is the vitriol in some of these postings for cruises in general. My word ... what did a cruise vacation ever do to them? You'd think it was one of the Seven Deadly Sins!
4
@Lonnie A fatality rate of 2% is indeed very high in a virus that spreads very easily.
2
@Gabrielle They are pretty terrible for the environment. Unfortunately, no way around this.
If you want to know why the Japanese are being cautious-their health ministry reports that there are 410 designated hospitals with about 2000 beds total in all of Japan capable of handling people infected with the virus. Now compare that capability with just the passengers on the ship or even only those that are sick. They are simply incapable of handling an epidemic. Neither, for that matter is China, who are doing the best they can and taking draconian measures to try and contain it; nor are we. So as bad as things are within the ship, it could get a lot worse if proper precautions are not taken.
6
What happens after the current 2 week quarantine period ? It seems likely that the ship will have significantly more confirmed cases as time goes on.
Does that mean the ship quarantine period just continues ad infinitum ? Till they all get sick and recover ? (or not).
Or until tensions boil over, and the passengers or crew start some form of unrest.
There is only so much time you can spend in a cabin, cooped up with an unknown timeline. Even shorter if you are unlucky enough to have an inside cabin with no windows.
13
My guess is that corporate execs or lawyers are cautioning against any actions because, given the unknowns, those actions could result in worse outcomes, unintentionally. This reluctance to act for fear of blame has resulted in a patently absurd situation that shames not just the cruise line and host country, but each of us. As a society we need to recognize in extraordinary times blame is not the worst enemy. There is no societal benefit here to sacrificing these passengers and crew. Actions, without certainty of course, must be taken to liberate and care for them, immediately. Human rights.
6
This is not an acceptable treatment of fellow human beings. Leaving them on a ship while this while a potentially life threatening virus spreads and offering them face masks and hand sanitizers to deal with it is cold and inhumane. Ships from each country whose citizens are on board the quarantined ship should be summoned to immediately pick up those people and bring them to their home country for adequate treatment. The governments of each of the countries involved should demand the release of their citizens and send medical teams to accomplish this. If President Trump or Mr. Abe or the CEO of Princess Cruises were on board, you can be sure they would not be left to fend for themselves.
25
Everyone on this ship is in serious danger of contacting the Wuhan virus given the extremely close quarters. This is an archaic method of quarantine that should never be allowed. The Japanese government should have provided a more secure, but separated environment as we've done with those airlifted back to the states from Wuhan. Any deaths will be the responsibility of the Japanese.
12
Hope the Japanese government or the cruise-line owners/operators are supplying all on board with plenty of high-quality duct tape and plastic sheeting. And proper quality of individual room and hallway air filters and related supplies (and disposing of whatever comes off the ship as biohazard).
If people, especially non-symptomatic people, are by law or policy being forced to remain quarantined (which may, in the immediate, be the less-worse option for humanity?), the least the entity imposing or enforcing said law/policy can do is provide each person aboard with the basic resources — material and informational — to protect themselves and one another from highly-contagious illness, whether airborne, waterborne, food-borne, or other known or possible means of spreading.
3
It's a terrible situation for those on board ship. Given that so much is unknown about this virus, it's best to be cautious. The issue is not about the discomfort of a few, it is to protect millions of lives.
4
Tokyo Olympic is only 150 days away. Does IOC have any contingency plan or will it wait until the last moment?
15
Can't blame them for not talking about it at this point, but imagine they are looking at alternate locations outside Japan -- possibly cities that recently held Olympics and still have facilities that could quickly be put in Olympic competition shape.
I've just booked a 2 months budget/economy cruise for February 2021. And, the closest it gets to the far-East is New Zealand. I reckon the chances of getting an upgrade on the ticket look pretty good - given as how cruises seem to be fast becoming the world's least favourite vacation.
Assuming that I (and humanity generally) are still around in 2021.
10
I'm not remotely qualified to say what should be done, but it's hard not to ask if the Japanese government is following best practice in keeping the quarantined people on a ship.
11
Add another reason to why, at age 65, I’ve never taken a cruise. It’s much easier to see the world, in a more meaningful way, when you are not tied to one floating hotel.
46
I agree. But I think there are some who just like the cruising lifestyle (or travelstyle) -- not to mention older, less mobile people who are unable to travel any other way (like can't walk much anymore,)
1
This is criminal. Everyone on the ship should be tested for the virus, then be quarantined off the ship accordingly. This is like a slo-mo horror movie: everyone on that ship will eventually be exposed to the virus, starting with the staff. Their situation is unconscionable.
129
@SYJ
'Testing' for the virus may not pick up everybody in the earliest stages of infection. Like many screening tests, it's not a yes/no process. Plenty of false negatives.
In any case, the Yokohama authorities have said that currently they lack facilities to test 3,700 passengers (plus crew) in one go.
9
@nolongeradoc It's all about the money. If Royal Princess had the will, they's dig into their off-shored funds and hire professionals. If they payed foreign nurses from say Ireland, Germany, and the Czech Republic hazard pay and expenses, they'd have 600 people lined up work as medics. Or, if they split the one ship of passengers into two ships w. as many people as possible in external cabins, they then could turn off the off the air circulators, and take other mitigating steps. But ya know what, Royal Princess is only worried about its survival. These are the cheapest steps, if they really cared, there would be a field hospital on the docks with top of the line staff and testing equipment. They needed to think outside the box and decisively, but they don't care.
Let this be the final nail in the coffin of the cruise industry. If you don't get it this time that cruise operators do not care about you, and only look out for their survival, then "just deserves" on your next horror cruise.
33
Obviously this is terrible for everyone on board. However this will also turn into a valuable controlled natural experiment.
Given almost 4000 people are now isolated on board, some being more isolated than others. We should be able to see how well the virus spreads under difference circumstances and also accurately measure rate of serious illness and potential deaths.
This should provide us with the most accurate understanding of the infectiousness and seriousness of the disease.
So far observing death rates from outside of Hubei province (so rest of China + world), this infection looks very much to have a similar virulence as the seasonal Flu and the panic around the world is both irrational and counterproductive.
4
Not sure “isolation” in this instance consistently, if at all, meets all of the required characteristics in order to qualify as “isolation” according to medical best practices. For example, what’s the ventilation system within the ship? It is a recreational cruise ship, not a Naval floating Hospital (the latter of which might not have every space capable of meeting the standards for true medical isolation).
6
@GW
Where do you get your statement that coronavirus has a similar level of virulence to the flu? Fewer than 0.1 percent of individuals who contract the flu will die from it, but estimates of the fatality rate from coronavirus are twenty times that, at 2%.
And that number is only accurate if the numbers we are getting out of China are true, which seems unlikely given the photos and videos coming out of China.
7
@Frances you are conflating or confusing mortality rate with rate of contagion. The two rates measure or express two very different characteristics.
Please be careful not to spread misinformation or to muddle the information waters just as they are incrementally becoming slightly less murky.
3
Who is advocating for these people? Shouldn't Princess Cruises be trying to work something out with the Japanese government to come up with a better solution? Or are they too afraid that it will cost them money? Why hasn't the American embassy and the embassies of all the passengers and crew and the Japanese government figured out a way to help these people who are being held as virtual prisoners? Certainly there are better solutions than what is currently being done? I've never wanted to go on one of those giant ships. This just confirms my resolve.
31
@Miriam For now, these people need to stay in isolation, they are no more virtual prisoners than Americans quarantined at military bases here in California. It's an unfortunate situation for sure, but what do you suggest? Perhaps offload them in NYC since it's fully prepared to manage the crisis.
6
They would be in drastically better shape quarantined at a land based facility in their home countries than in tiny windowless rooms on a ship. Also, the virus could potentially spread through the ship’s ventilation system, needlessly infecting those still healthy, until they all get it.
5
A week ago it seemed perfectly reasonable to keep them all onboard. It still may be.
Perhaps the new cases of coronavirus are all a result of pre-quarantine infection. In that case, the onboard quarantine may continue to be the right answer.
However, I hope the medical community will do a careful analysis of the situation. If the shipboard quarantine is endangering the crew and passengers, perhaps other arrangements should be considered in the future.
For example, the UK and US evacuees from Wuhan seem to have been quarantined more successfully on land in isolated facilities. Perhaps such land-based and isolated quarantine centers are less risky than shipboard quarantines.
After all, this situation will arise again in the future. The medical community should carefully study the situation
8
As past episodes of wide-spread illness on board cruise ships have shown, those ships seem to be favorable breeding grounds for contagions and expedient environments for colonizing host humans even when the virus or other contagion is well-known and there’s no reason to think it’s part of a global pandemic.
10
@TheRightThing
Yes previous experiences have shown that cruise ships are not equipped to contain infections. This is an old ship. I seriously doubt they have HEPA air filters or even the ability to institute that type of air filtering. Continuing to provide services from the ship and not isolating the crew clearly show they don't know what they are dealing with or how to deal with it.
5
If someone on board decided they had enough of this insanity and jumped overboard, what would happen?
8
@Terri Cheng
They would probably drown. Most are older and a jump from such a height into cold water would likely prove fatal. About a week ago a healthy young male jumped from a cruise ship into San Juan harbor and he did not survive. It would be even worse for an oldster to jump into cold waters from a significant height.
3
From the beginning I have not understood why quarantining people on a cruise ship made any kind of public health sense. Infected people in a contained environment = larger-than-life Petri dish.
Now, all you cruise critics, it might not appeal to you as a vacation choice but I bet you go to buffets elsewhere, you fly on planes but I bet most of you don’t have an antiseptic wipe to clean the germ-covered tray table, you get in rental cars but you have no idea how well they were cleaned (steering wheel=turning Petri dish) or you ride on jammed commuter trains and subways (that pole=vertical Petri dish). So, it’s not like you are insulated.
24
@MFS you are comparing apples to oranges. Traveling by plane/subway/bus is a means to an end, to get from one place to another, and often necessary. Going on a cruise is totally optional and lasts MUCH LONGER than the other travel options I just listed. And, yeah - I do wipe down the tray table/tv screen on a plane and I wash my hands after riding mass transit - which I can do once and be done with it. How can you compare that experience to being on a self contained vessel, with no exit, for days or weeks, with hundreds if not thousands of people? No cruises for me or my family...
7
I don’t get it. Take the people off the ship and isolate the healthy ones for two weeks. The longer they are there, the more likely they will contract the virus.
141
Another example of why I will never sail on one of these floating incubators. What a nightmare for those stuck on board! Attention passengers, we are currently serving bronchodilators and IV fluids on Lido deck.
14
What kind of circus is this that 10 crew members are infected, and are sharing buffet-style meals with their fellow crew members? Their fellow crew members who are serving the thousands of passengers on the ship. Other articles in the Times today indicate it takes 5-14 days for people to show symptoms. I'm not an epidemiologist, but if this quarantine is for only 2 weeks and infected crew members are sharing meals and close quarters before serving thousands of passengers, then this isn't a quarantine. It's a petri dish! In 2 weeks more people are going to be released to spread this around the world because of how this is being handled.
57
Since we know theirs may be spread by asymptomatic people, then it's not enough to test temperatures. They need to be testing for the virus. But I guess the tests are not 100% accurate.
Seems clear at this point the virus is spreading on the ship.
What a nightmare for everyone trapped on the ship.
If they are waiting for the virus to clear they may be there for ever.
13
A few years ago, communist China on the mainland began limiting the number of its tourists that were allowed to visit democratic Taiwan (an island of 23-24 million). It did it to hurt Taiwan’s economy and bring Taiwan to its knees, bend it to its will. That policy is a blessing. Taiwan was spared widespread viral infection because millions of mainland tourists were not allowed to visit Taiwan. Isolation has its upsides too.
9
@Charlie Chan - ... so far. The best bet is to assume it will reach worldwide saturation and begin preparing as soon as possible. Unfortunately, it is human to wait until the last minute. PM Abe announced there is no contingency plan for the Olympics - the show must go on.
4
1) hey WHO, you’re mobilized. Is it possible to set up a mobile lab at Yokohama port so everyone on the ship can be tested, ASAP?
2) hey Princess: How about putting your VP in charge of health and safety on the ship to enforce your standards and practices for hygiene and give the crew and passengers a morale boost?
Here’s the thing about cruise ships and hygiene: we live within sight of the main cruise terminal in Seattle, gateway to most Alaska cruises. During the summer from Friday to Sunday 2 enormous ships dock at the port we can see. There’s another port downtown that also supports a cruise ship. 9 ships a weekend from May till nearly October. Our conservative guess is anywhere to 2500 to 3000 guests and crew on each cruise. The ships arrive between 5 and 6 am and sail with a new compliment of passengers around 4pm. In theory, those ships are cleaned from top to bottom in those 12 hours. Short of hospital grade disinfectant - which doesn’t even kill everything (MRSA) - it feels like a mathematical impossibility to have those ships really clean by the time each new cruise sets off. Granted, thousands more people DON’T get sick on cruise ships than do, and only the really gnarly norovirus stories make news, but the stew of humanity, food prep, shared spaces, and buffets coupled with the short turnaround time has put us off the idea of cruising completely.
Under those conditions, particularly for the crew, it’s impossible to stop the spread of the virus. Heart wrenching
18
When a quarantine becomes an incubator, something needs to change.
53
There's a pretty obvious question hanging out there. How come China can successfully test 1,800 crew members on World Dream but Japan is struggling to test 400 on Diamond Princess? I would think Honk Kong and Japan are medically equivalent.
I've already discussed the moral questions associated with onboard quarantine. This is a strictly technical question. Why doesn't Japan possess the ability to test the ship's passengers and crew when China can? Not enough test kits? Improper sterilization tools? What? There should be a fairly obvious answer.
How we can spill so much ink without even asking the question?
12
This is an outrage! There is no way to protect the crew and passengers within the close confines of a cruise ship.
I see that the dock area around the ship has already been closed off. So couldn't the Japanese army set up single-person, or family sized tents, at safe distances from each other, in the docking area? (And out in the clean air?) The entire area could be fenced in to prevent departures or incursions. Each tent could have cots, a heater, and meals ready to eat or some such, plus books and a radio.
This wouldn't be an easy task to set up, but neither would it be that difficult. Housing facilities for other sorts of mass catastrophes are already invented and surely available.
But to leave these poor people in their present dire situation, unaided, with no way off the ship but to become ill? Is Japan going to just sit there and watch them be removed, body by body?
I say Shame on the Japanese government! Where's your compassion? Where's your common sense? Where's your decency?
15
@PNRN
It's an American ship. What about our compassion? We have US bases in Japan and throughout the area that we could use to quarantine these patients.
3
@PNRN Do tents have running water, electricity; and toilets?? It is not as easy as you make it sound.
1
How many toilets would you need and who would disinfect them?
1
Seems as if the people on this ship are destined to remain until 14 days after the most recent positive diagnosis. Every time there is a new case, they have to wait a fortnight to see if there is another to start the count again.
This is a disaster. Crew can pass infections between passengers, since there isn't a kind of prison-door serving hatch for providing the inmates with food, and of course they can also infect each other.
Are the Japanese government happy for these people to languish until they are either all infected, or the all-clear is given to the survivors possibly many months hence?
Since the people on this ship really are all in it together, it does appear rather primitive that we have a class of servers and another of elevated status who should be put at far less risk. This is a medical situation, not a master-servant relationship, where the underclass takes much larger risks while also doing all the work.
29
This truly sounds dreadful. It's now known that many patients in China caught their virus while in the hospital. I'd imagine this situation will only be worse. The crew as well as the passengers are in danger.
There is also no way to get through a 14 day quarantine there as people keep falling ill which would I'd imagine continually reset the clock. This could go on for a long time and unnecessarily endanger many people.
Sounds like an international health entity needs to get involved here. The passengers and the crew need to get off the ship and put into a safe quarantine space. It also sounds like they ALL need to be tested ASAP and those who test positive separated from the others immediately.
15
You know about The Princess and the Pea?
This is about the Princess and the C
C for Cruise ship Diamond Princess
C for Coronavirus
C for Cure we hope to C.
2
The whole point of quarantine is to isolate the infected and those they have come into contact with so there is no spread. The down side of this is that some in the group who are not sick will get sick and some will die.
Wash your hands frequently and do not touch your face unless you just washed your hands and face.
2
You almost have to wonder if it would be better to try and use a military base to off load all these people. All the crowding will spread the virus as people cannot get any separation. What a mess - another reason I will never take one of these mega ship cruises.
5
They need to isolate those people from each other. The ship is an incubator. It shares all its air and water and eating areas.
6
That ship is a floating nightmare - a death trap. The people on board should be moved to a land quarantine where there can be more distance between them, severly ill people can be identified and moved to hospitals, and those who are healthy can be isolated from those who are sick.
The medical services for huge concentrations of people have been demonstrated to be woefully inadeaute, lethally inadequate by this latest epidemic. More epidemics will follow.
Systems need to be put into place avoid spreading disease.
I find it horrifying to even imagine being cooped up for days on end with people on a huge ship and don't understand why anyone would be motivated (other than excess boredom and having too much money with nothing to spend it on) to decide to go on such stupid cruises. It's like being trapped in a huge crowd for days on end. You couldn't even be removed from the floating garbage can if the chip had to be abandoned.
I think people will believe any thing in advertisements - no matter how much it violates common sense.
11
i worry about all the bad PR for Princess Cruises. It's not really the cruiseline's fault they have become a floating test tube for a pandemic
Actually i don't worry that much because it's a suitable tradeoff for the lack of bad br for the bilge pumping and smokestack spewing they do every day in sensitive glacial areas throughout the world.
3
@Especially Meaty Snapper How the company is handling this is totally their fault. It is inhumane and disgraceful.
1
This is a recipe for disaster. When you only remove those who are already symptomatic, it means that they have already come into contact and potentially infected every other person with whom they have interacted. Gloves, masks, suits - useless when those gloves could have touched a contaminated doorknob.
They need to institute circuit breakers! Remove people to military installations where they can be isolated effectively but also be in the sun and fresh air - best germ fighters ever! Three or four people in a 250 sq ft windowless cabin - contagion run rampant.
5
All right, well, it's becoming increasingly obvious that a cruise ship is an inappropriate environment in which to quarantine against this disease.
5
I'm not a scientist, but this just seems to me to be exactly the wrong thing to do - closing up 2500 people in a confined space with a virus. Headline in 3 weeks, "2500 people infected on cruise ship."
8
Oh this is just too rich. The cruise ship as metaphor for the planet.
16
In the mean time Japan and the rest of the world has completely failed and abandoned the people on the Westerdam - they have been barred from docking because of one suspected (unconfirmed) case.
3
Cruise ships are the worst place to be with a virus outbreak. The company should do the right thing. Get everyone off of the ship and place everyone in a safer location. That is the only way they will contain the virus.
4
Currently the penetration rate on Diamond Princess = 136/3700 = 3.67%, whereas the total penetration in Wuhan = 16902 confirmed cases / 11.08 million population = 0.152%. That means that the number of confirmed cases per person on Diamond Princess is 20 times that of Wuhan, the epicentre of the virus!
I understand the concern that infected passengers may spread the virus more broadly in Japan, especially densely-populated Tokyo. However, it will be an even bigger burden to Japan's health-care system if most or all of the Diamond Princess passengers & crew end up infected and having to be treated there. Hopefully a measured-risk approach can be taken to get these people back to their home countries and dispersed to contain this.
7
@HY Lee
I’m not sure we really know the penetration rate in Wuhan.
1. It’s chaos on the medical front - facilities are overwhelmed.
2. More cases are incubating now and growth has been growing exponentially
3. The Chinese government does not have a reputation for candor
1
Aren’t you glad we have dedicated public servants willing to look for and at actual data to shape a response to a situation with is filled with hard choices?
Clearly people are going to get hurt and some will die. Mistakes will be made, likely obvious in hindsight.
Having individuals with deep knowledge and experience and an understanding of the second and third order effects of decisions is comfortingly.
Is it possible, that an event like this could reawaken an understanding that competence matters??? I hope so.
20
That ship is a floating Petrie dish. My heart goes out to all those aboard. It is possible that some scientific understanding of this zoonotic disease will emerge. For example, studies may be done of those who do not catch the disease to see if they possess any unique antiviral features in their blood which enabled them to resist the disease.
8
Novel corona virus, norovirus, measles .... If a hospital is the best place to go to get sick, it seems like a cruise ship might be a close second.
22
Cruise lines make tons of money. Why doesn't Princess Cruises provide another ship where low risk crew members and guests can be separately quarantined for 14 days until they are cleared to go? The logic of quarantining thousands of guests while allowing scarcely protected crew members to rove around is insane. This is not just Japan's problem. The cruise line needs to take some responsibility!
146
@jg
The Cruise line should pay for nurses and medical staff to relieve and train the staff.
M
7
@jg
I doubt they have spare ships of comparable size just docked waiting somewhere; just like airlines (despite what a lot of people seem to think) don’t have idle planes parked around the country as spares - it’s not economically feasible to do so. Secondly, why risk contaminating a second vessel if the wrong “low-risk” people are allowed on board - then you have two disasters to manage.
Face it, situations of this magnitude are, mercifully, rare. It’s easy for us to criticize these efforts, but there aren’t always a large menu of workable options available, even to wealthy governments like Japan or ours.
5
Being quarantined on the ship, in close quarters, is like being in a death trap. Even now it’s not too late to remove everyone from the ship and put them somewhere else where conditions can be better maintained and the situation monitored until the situation changes. Keeping them on the ship will only guarantee that the virus continues to spread and someone dies.
This situation is also bad for business. Who would want to take the chance that they might end up stuck for weeks on a ship with nowhere to go and no options? Anyone who works for a living should think about taking that cruise, no matter how good the offer.
38
The situation on this ship is only going to deteriorate.
They MUST get everyone off of this "incubator" and into on-land quarantine and not wait until half or more of the passengers are infected.
There's no possible way the crew, mostly young, uneducated people from 3rd world countries, given their cramped living conditions, etc. can possibly avoid infection and spreading it to the rest. They lack biohazard training, education, and equipment.
Let it go a little longer without taking decisive action and this "Death Cruise" will become truly awful. When riots break out and passengers start jumping over the sides what will Japan do? Send the ship out into the ocean and doom the rest?
The CDC/WHO need to come up with a plan and implement it immediately before the nightmare gets any worse.
106
Another reason to never take a cruise.
Basically you are stuck and on your own.
Whether you are a passenger or employee, the cruise ship companies don’t really do anything to mitigate the issue.
It must be like living in a gigantic Petri dish.
30
Everyone on that ship is going to get sick. They’re spreading it around the ship, they may as well leave their cabins and be less miserable while they wait to show symptoms.
31
Just another reason why i would never go on a cruise. My worst nightmare even before a virus were introduced. To each his own I guess but maybe people think twice before going on a cruise ever again. Those poor people stuck on that ship. I hope it ends O.K for everyone on there.
26
I see a fair number of photos with bio-hazard clothed people with unprotected personnel nearby. I hope the hazard suit-clad people are yet to board the Diamond Princess and not just getting off at the end of gtheir shift(s).
Michael Collins of Apollo 11 said it best of the protections against lunar critters were pretty funny at best (a week of quarantine after splashdown, etc.). They opened the hatch on the command module!
3
In hindsight, I wonder if quarantining people on shore would've been a better move. All these people cooped up in a ship, even such a large ship, might be making the situation worse, or easier for the virus to spread. Plus, the crew is not trained to handle this type of medical emergency. I feel so bad for everyone in this situation.
155
@Jmart
I agree it is unfortunate for those on the ship, but the author's point is correct. Quarantines are protective for everyone outside of the quarantine, not those within.
A ship is in many ways idea for a quarantine. Everyone is isolated, all the facilities are there (laundry, water, sewage, kitchens), supplies can easily be brought on board with limited contact, people coming in and out are easily monitored, etc.
Moving 3,700 people to hotels means lots of hotels involved, the staff at those hotels are exposed, drivers are exposed, and bystanders may be exposed. Not to mention keeping everyone quarantined is infinitely more difficult as you spread everyone out. How do you monitor 3,700 people at dozens of hotels across cities?
I do not relish the thought of being on board the ship, but from a containment standpoint, it works well. How the crew is trained and other aspects of the crew and passenger situation, however, could improve.
12
It is highly unlikely that this virus can be contained in light of how far it has already spread.
Keeping people quarantined on the ship is also unlikely to solve the problem. It will eventually lead to everyone being infected - and subsequently immune - at which point they can leave the ship.
So the best procedure at this point would likely be to get all the people on the ship into the mess hall, everyone takes a good cough at everyone else, then incubate until everyone has lived through the infection, and then disembark.
From the currently available information I would guess that would take care of the problem within ~ 3 weeks or so.
The way they are doing it right now will lead to the same final result, but it will take a lot longer.
7
@Captain Nemo
Sadly, many of the cruise passengers are elderly and they might get terribly sick and even die from this if they tried to just get everyone infected at once.
4
@Captain Nemo For corona viruses in general, infection and recovery does NOT lead to subsequent immunity.
4
@Paul
Correction: ...does not NECESSARILY lead to LIFELONG immunity.
Of course it leads to some sort of immunity, otherwise everyone would die. You are correct that one can get reinfected as the antibody titers wane over time, but usually - though not necessarily - that will lead to a mitigated disease remanifestation. Of course, the virus might mutate and thus evade the immune system, that would create a new strain, like flu each year.
Generally, keeping people locked up in close quarters in a mass quarantine effort will increase the likelihood of everyone getting infected over time if transmissibility of the virus is high, as is the case here. In the meantime, the other passengers can't leave, at least not until they are serologically proven to have developed immunity. This situation as is now could carry on for another 3 months, until finally there haven't been any more new cases for 3 weeks. At that time, the passengers might finally be able to get off the ship.
3
This is interesting. In an ideal situation quarantine facilities for the lesser number of crew would be on shore to reduce the crowding typical of crew member accommodations. The problem is... if onshore some of those crew members will escape to visit the nearby city potentially spreading contagion. So the desire to contain every one on an easily guarded ship understandable. This may even work if strict hygiene is observed; if disease spreads unbounded on the ship and conditions greatly worsen people will start to swim ashore and then nearby cities will definitely become contaminated. So, this is an interesting test case for containment, and what may go wrong. I'd rather observe from a distance.
Norovirus, coronavirus... crowded disease incubating cruise ships are not looking very attractive. And there is no way to disinfect them in a couple of days either, no matter what the c-suite claims.
10
I've been on a cruise ship with 100 people, it was pretty nice ( and expensive) but cramped nonetheless.
I can't imagine myself willingly entering one of these bee hive cruise ships. Ever, for any reason.
63
@Ernest Montague
That was once my cruising experience, too. I'd done a Galapagos tour on a 25 meter vessel with only 13 other passengers and 10 crew. It was great. I don't like excess, over the top luxury or fauwning staff either. I'd also done some military comfort grade school cruises when younger. They were good, too.
But, ten days First class, on the Cunard flagship convinced me otherwise. It was fabulous. Dignified. Elegant. Just perfect. Quite the best vacation I've ever taken. Expensive - but it felt like fantastic value. If you'd laid on the dining, entertainment, excursions, yourself, at home, it would have cost five times as much.
4
To have such large numbers of cases on the Diamond Princess cruise, must lead one to think that the crew are spreading the virus from one passenger to the next. As stated in the article the crew are insufficiently trained, and not adequately gowned.
They also live in very close quarters to each other. This will unfortunately lead to more and more casualities, and eventually all could succomb to the disease. We know that masks are inadequate and thus even the preparation of food and drinks by the crew, and the handling of the crockery and cutlery may be a mode of transmission.
52
@Ann while that may be true (I've been thinking the same thing), the incubation period is 2 weeks so the sickies will have been infected prior to the quarantine.
4
@Ann Most people who get coronavirus aren't dying. It's not a death sentence and implying that is irresponsible.
3
@Sarah You are absolutely correct, not everyone will die. However, I wonder what the availability of supplemental oxygen and IVs are? I'm sure a ship's medical facilities can only deal with a few people at any given time. So, you may not die, but you might wish you had.
5
My heart goes out to the crew workers and passengers who are living through this nightmare. My husband and I had always said we would never take a cruise--we're very passionate about independent travel. However, after hearing so many wonderful things about the Inside Passage cruises in Alaska, we took our very first cruise last year on a Princess ship. Somewhat to our surprise, we had a fantastic time. Sadly, I only learned later about the environmental toll of these ships and the worker's dismal living/work conditions. And now, reading about this quarantined ship...well. No more cruises for us.
240
A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Given the conditions in which the crews are operating and living, through no fault of theirs, it is no surprise that the number of cases in that ship is rising. It is an unfortunate situation with no easy solution.
34
@Michael Everyone on that ship is eventually going to get sick unless they have somehow achieved immunity or had a very light case of the current virus which has left them with a temporary immunity.
If I were on that ship, I would jump off at the next trip into the harbour for "supplies" and try to make it to another pier or boat to be rescued. Better to die trying than to die waiting for a corono virus to take me off the ship to a Japanese hospital!
4
@BSmith Have you ever seen a modern cruise ship up close? Nobody is "jumping off" and living to tell the tale.
Why can't an American or International hospital ship be dispatched to Yokohama Harbor to help care for these folks on the cruise ship-Including the crew? Or as an alternative set-up a field hospital dockside. Very scary to see that the worlds two most technologically advanced countries, the US and Japan, seem to be floundering about, and simply throwing up their hands at the plight of the folks on this ship.
It ought to be a huge heads-up for the international community to see just how easily contagious diseases can bring even the most advanced nations to a stand still.
153
@birddog Let's see. While it's hard to estimate the daily cost of a hospital ship, as it must be staffed daily, regardless of the patient load, it's unbelievably costly. We're not talking $10k a day, we're talking 10-80 times that, at a minimum. So who is paying that? The cruise ship line? Where is it coming from? There are not docks full of hospital ships waiting to be dispatched.
17
@birddog
In 2018, the Trump administration fired the government’s entire pandemic response chain of command, including the White House management.
33
@birddog The Foreign Service appears to have not only been mismanaged lately....it seems they've been completely dismantled viz a viz a competent response to this crisis. Overseas U.S. travellers, beware!
8
Due to the nature of their work, the crew would have had the highest amount of exposure to the virus, so it seem ridiculous that they are the ones who are not in quarantine and are actually preparing and serving food to those who are.
212
For a rich country like Japan, which is well prepared for earthquake disasters, saying they don't have the means to test all the passengers and to set up a temporary quarantine to better isolate the people who are not sick but subject to risk of catching the virus in tight quarters is inhumane.
62
Well it's not inhumane. I think it's just that they are not prepared for this type of emergency. They prepare for earthquakes because they have a high risk of experiencing an earthquake. Also, they have more precedent to learn from. As someone else mentioned, the international community is on the hook here as well. I know China is the priority, but I'm puzzled that no teams have been sent out to assist the passengers or to help Japan set up dockside facilities to test and quarantine people. I think these are all lessons we should keep in mind going forward.
14
@Jmart It is most certainly inhumane, they are single handedly and unnecessarily creating a humanitarian disaster here.
2
@Magno Japan at its heart is actually quite xenophobic. Foreigners plus coronavirus would be a definite no for them.
Ironically, the only way off this ship is to test positive for the virus. Given the interminable wait and uncertainty, that would almost be a relief.
74
The only positive in this nightmare is maybe the cruise industry will get significantly downsized. These ships are massive polluters, and situations like this show how dangerous it is to have thousands of people living together in very tight quarters.
I feel sorry for everyone affected.
447
@MrDeepState Yes they are massive polluters. At the same time, they have masses of people on board. Concentrating them on a ship may be better than them flocking to environmentally sensitive areas.
9
@MrDeepState
To say nothing of the boredom after a few days. I'd go out of my mind taking a trip like that. Due to their pollution, maybe a stiff tax could be charged to the passengers, something that makes these cruises less attractive.
20
@MrDeepState A scourge for both the environment and in the case of Venice, a cultural pollutant. What is wrong with people thinking this is a good time?
34
The usual corporate PR baloney that everyone is “trained” for the situation and everything is under control. Workers deserve the same protection as passengers. If the ship doesn’t have the room to provide separation for its employees they should be evacuated. There are other ways to meet passengers’ needs besides sacrificing human lives. These corporations that are so smart about making money can figure it out.
231
I have no doubt that most of the workers on the crew live in tight quarters. This means that if one is infected it will spread quickly among the crew. The crew bring the meals to the passengers locked in their room. If the crew member is infected, but does not yet know it yet, they could easily spread the virus to those passengers quarantined in their cabins. Clearly enough people on the ship are infected to tell us that the control measures in place are not working.
Quarantine is supposed to stop the spread of infection not doom those stuck in quarantine to wait to get infected by the others in quarantine.
343
@Sutter
It would be criminally negligent if they have allowed the crew to provide room service (prepare the meals, bring them to cabins, and clean the rooms). All meals should be prepared on-shore delivered in styrofoam boxes by people in space suits, who should also deliver clean towels/sheets and remove trash. Typical cruise ship crew members are not trained to conduct infectious disease isolation protocols.
223
@Sutter
As quoted in the article, quarantines are really for the protection of others outside the confined areas. Those inside are often thought of as acceptable casualties by the authorities in charge.
There was a Hollywood movie where those attempting to escape the quarantine were to be shot dead by the military securing the perimeter. And the truth is stranger than fiction.
46
@Sutter Can't agree more with your last sentence. But from what I read right now many stuck in quarantine are indeed waiting to get infected. I mean not only on this cruise ship, but also in many families and communities in Wuhan, where the infected cannot be admitted to the overwhelmed hospitals. Very sad indeed.
The way the crew is being treated, with close contact in dining, sleeping and showering (4 to a shower), is ripe for the virus to spread among them. Not only is this unfair, they now have the opportunity to spread the virus to even more passengers. Also, the 14 day quarantine will need to be extended due to the new cases.
278
@TenToes Yes, each new case extends an additional 14 days, it could be months.
20
@Krismarch
Today it's a 14 day incubation period.
As it grows more virulent, who knows.
8
I wonder how the staterooms on cruise ships are ventilated. Presumably there is a series of ventilation systems that move air among and through the rooms. If microdroplets can carry the virus, then are passengers “quarantined” in their state rooms not at risk of breathing in such droplets? if yes, then staying in one ‘s own stateroom is not necessarily protective.
My heart goes out to everyone on the affected ships. They are trapped in an environment that puts them at heightened risk.
144
@Katonah
I thought the same thing. Are the ventilation systems in ships and aircraft even designed or tested to determine the effectiveness of the ventilation systems in removing microdroplets? It seems, these folks are like open Petri dishes in an incubator. Being stuck on a ship, even in the best of conditions, with 3000 other people is not my idea of a vacation. That said, a cruise is never going to be in the future for me.
40
@Charles I agree totally; as rising numbers of those infected is reported with each passing day, it is so obvious that the ship is a living petri-dish, now increasing due to air flow among other reasons. All should be removed from this ship to quarantined quarters in proper medical designated centers. To be confine on this ship is criminal negligence. It will be too late for legal issues, health of innocents on board are at stake. Unbelievable criminal negligence.
10
@Charles
It is not really even a vacation on a cruise ship when you are NOT stuck.
You are treated like herd of cattle on these ships when you disembark to go on a land excursion.
And if there are other cruise ships in the harbor as there usually are, tens of thousands of passengers are all descending on shore at the same time, it is like a nightmare day at Disneyland.
Lines are so packed at the end of the day to return to these ships, we were actually directed to get on a boat headed to the wrong cruise ship.
10
What Japan has done to the people on this ship is a crime. They should have moved all passengers to on-shore quarantine immediately, and asked other countries to fly their citizens home. They could have used the empty cabins for isolation of crew members for a short time if the logistics of getting everybody off the ship and into appropriate isolation was not possible. A cruise ship is an incubator, not an appropriate place to institute quarantine.
639
@Ivan I am not sure why you are blaming Japan. Any other country is at liberty to invite the ship to their shores and do what you are suggesting. Why aren't they doing that?
26
@Ivan Why is it Japan's responsibility to quarantine 3500+ passengers and crew members on its shore just because the cruise ship happened to be traveling there? If a Chinese cruise ship was traveling along our pacific coast carrying passengers known to be infected with Coronavirus, would you demand our government to let off all passengers and crew on our shores? I doubt it. Japan's responsibility is to keep its citizens safe. Not keeping the people on cruise ship safe. They are already doing a lot by providing medical care to those who became infected with Coronavirus.
Besides, Princess Cruises is headquartered in California. Why isn't US offering to help by allowing the ship to dock on its shore?
105
@El Mo
Yes it is the responsibility of the next harbor on the ships schedule, to deal with an infection. If they can welcome the big fat incomes from these ships they can also deal with the rare health problems. If the ship is far away from the next scheduled stop I think the nearest harbor should step up and deal with the problem. It is a matter of life and death to get competent health authorities involved and adequate infection control measures instituted as much and as soon as possible. That cannot happen until the ship reach harbor. Half the passengers on that ship are Japanese and Japans government has as much a responsibility to those people as to the other Japanese citizens. If handled competently, the movement of the people on that ship to adequate quarantine facilities on land, will not create any more risk to the population at large than keeping them in the dangerous conditions on that ship.
32
The Cruise Ship 'experience' has become now a nightmare event. Will it fade out? Certainly patrons will have second thoughts on living in close quarters in an incubator for two weeks. These floating cities are unhealthy. There are better options out there to enjoy travel.
93
@Jim I wouldn't take a cruise ship for all the money in the world. Good heavens, the thought of being trapped on a floating garbage producer, with peppy travelers who insist they are having a good time -- no really, we are! - and not really seeing any of the countries allegedly visited would be a nightmare of noise, boredom and wasted opportunity. Now we see they are by definition hotbeds of germ activity and disease. I feel for these poor imprisoned people - patrons and workers alike. They should have been taken off the ship immediately, out into the air rather than trapped in stifling quarters where they cannot avoid contagion. It's insane.
20
@Sarah
Geez, can you imagine being the one, maybe two doctors, on this ship?
7
So now we have a comparison between the liberal and democratic government of Japan and the authorization Communist state of China.
Japan, despite being a much richer nation and with far fewer cases, has been unable to effectively test all the possibly infected on one ship. The crew of the ship are left living closely together where spread of the infection seems inevitable. Even with foreknowledge of what to expect. the numbers of infections is rising steeply.
This is a very difficult epidemic to control. Let us judge China's efforts after we see how others cope.
43
I mean, China did effectively the same thing by shutting down Wuhan. And there's the inconvenient truth that they kept many people misinformed during a very critical period of the outbreak with such actions as quieting "rumors" that turned out to be true. Even Chinese citizens are questioning the government on its efforts to keep information from the public. There's a difference between trying to mitigate panic and outright lying to make yourself seem powerful and in control. Then there's a sense that China is delaying assistance from the WHO in order to save face. So yes, China will be judged for its actions, along with the rest of the international community.
16
@Herne I see you are posting from Bali. There are about 5000 Chinese tourists currently in Bali who were initially stuck there after the travel ban. On Feb 6th an article states "The Chinese consulate general has offered repatriation to the mainland, but no one has agreed to fly back home," Bali's vice-governor, Tjokorda Oka Artha Ardana Sukawati, told Indonesia's MetroTV. It seems like at least amongst a large group of Chinese tourists that that judgement has already been made.
4
i cannot imagine being stuck on that vessel. even the passengers who were allowed to leave could be infected and still asymptomatic (how does one know when to begin counting the 14 days with others on board capable of infecting you at any time?)...with that many new cases there is really no way to know.
54
@george plant
This has been exactly my thought. If someone gets the virus from someone else on the 14th day, then they may not test positive until 14 days later.
53
@george plant
The incubation period is 14 days. Each time you get a new infection you start the clock again.
You need 14 days in a row with no new infections to accomplish the goal of the quarantine. Then you know who is and is not sick.
230
@magicisnotreal I agree so it is entirely possible that the ship will be in quarantine until the last person left has contracted the disease!
6