Do I believe the women? Yes, I do but I don’t believe the evidence proves his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. He isn’t on trial for being a slime ball and a creep, which has been proven. He isn’t on trial for offering career advancement for sex or career ruination if the women didn’t give him sex because those things aren’t illegal. Maybe they should be illegal but at this time they aren’t. Perhaps there need to be new legal standards for prosecuting sex crimes. This case unfortunately boils down to he said she said. I DO believe the women but the waters are very muddy.
13
Under NY law sexual offenses are divided by category. Sexual misconduct, a misdemeanor, is where there is no consent. Rape in the first degree requires “forcible compulsion.” The prosecution will be labeled a failure if Mr. Horrible is “only” convicted of misdemeanors. Thus they have to try “forcible compulsion.” That is either use of physical force or immediate fear of death or physical injury. A reasonable and rational juror could find neither occurred. People need to be prepared for such a verdict. A lifetime of ostracism and opprobrium might have to be enough punishment for this creature.
5
People reading newspaper articles, which are usually heavily biased against the accused, forget that this is not a decision based upon identity politics, popularity or probability. It is based upon fact and proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Agree with pigeon's comment that the "blunt instrument" of a criminal case probably not the best way to proceed in so-called he-said, she- said cases where no independent factual verification exists.
4
This trial has all the same problems as the Ghomeshi trial in Toronto: a celebrity accused by several women who maintained contact with him, cross examination focussing on consent and subsequent behaviour, etc. And the result will probably be the same (acquittal). Maybe the blunt instrument of the criminal justice system is the wrong tool for fighting predatory behaviour and victims should focus on civil lawsuits instead. Even with the egregious facts in the Cosby trial (drugged victims) it was very difficult to convict.
2
How many women does it take? Really, what is the number that must accuse a powerful man, describing separate and distinct accounts which echo the same pathology on the part of the man before a woman is believed? If the number is more than one than is each woman somehow less than a whole? Is each woman in this case only equal to 1/6th of a man? How many others were prohibited from testifying?
11
It is hard for me to wrap my head around how these women could be so driven to succeed in show business that they would allow a man like Weinstein to abuse them sexually, and after having done so, to send him e-mails or texts that would lead him to believe that they actually liked it and wanted to see him again.
Has any actress in Hollywood become successful without having to put up with sexual assault I wonder?
I would think no matter how impactful their testimony is on the witness stand, their continued sexual contact with Weinstein can create real problems for a jury.
9
I have a lot of trouble believing Weinstein is guilty of rape. Which is not to say I don't think he's a slime ball. He is. But I have heard no testimony he held a knife to his victim or forcibly penetrated one in some dark alley or even drugged his prey. It seems far more likely, to me, these women used sex for career favors. I find the prosecution case, at least as reported, painfully weak. I'm afraid the me-too movement has seriously over-stepped, to the sad detriment of legitimate grievances.
8
@tony I won't speak to Weinstein's guilt or innocence here, but I want to address your description of rape, which seems incomplete. According to RAINN, 8 out of 10 rapes occur, not by a stranger in a dark alley, but by someone the victim knows in a space that is familiar. Rape also does not require the perpetrator to act "forcibly" in terms of holding someone down/using a weapon. The Justice Department's definition of rape makes no mention of physical force. Mental intimidation, emotional manipulation, verbal threats, etc. can be enough to induce tonic immobility, which is why many victims do not "fight back." Rape is not as simple as you make it seem--it involves issues of consent, power, and social stigmas.
9
@tony
Exactly.
How can a person be guilty of assault if the victim continued to have a nice personal relationship thereafter with the perpetrator? Was it quid pro quo?
The victims must file civil suit for damages against Weinstein. That is their only chance. Make him a pauper.
Do not think that the jury will find him guilty of the criminal charge .
2
Harvey Weinstein hired a spies, including former Mossad agents, in an attempt to stop accusers from going public with sexual misconduct claims against him. Do you believe him or the women? C'mon.
8
Of course we believe the women. There are so many of them and Weinstein used the same MO over and over -- using his position of power to sexually assault women over and over.
8
I have often wondered why women who have been raped or molested continue to see the guy who did it. Is it male power which draws an ambitious woman towards it, or is it to show the man that he doesn't control her no matter what he has done to her?
6
We're I a woman, I believe that I would always be able to decide what I would do or not do when it came to sex. Faced with the decision whether to give it up in exchange for something would be mine.
I'm certain that I would have to swallow hard(no pun intended) before I let Weinstein get to first base. Definitely not my type.
I see very little difference here especially since these involved long term relationships. The casting couch has been a fixture not only in the entertainment industry but others as well such as politics. Doesn't make it right but it's been a fact of life since Adam and Eve. Remember the apple?
Perhaps a simple analogy may be applied. There is an offer or promise of sorts in exchange for sex. Tacitly accepting that offer may be influenced by mitigating pressures but nonetheless, offer accepted.
As with any arrangement, time and expectations take their toll and deals go dead. Parties move on. But to litigate becomes a very difficult decision encouraged no doubt by capitalizing on the we too movement and public notoriety.public Recent financial settlements have been quite rewarding.
It seems to me that the prosecution's case here relied solely on emotional histrionics which in an of itself falls short of a slam dunk conviction.The defense will have a more rational and deliberate approach to contest the charges.
Thus far I would expect an aquittal.
11
@Nick I disagree. It’s really common for people to stay with an abuser for years, and have some perceived happy moments along the way, despite the abuse that took place, whether once or ongoing. I’m guessing people on the jury all know someone in a situation like that.
7
@Nick
It baffles me that you think that if you were a woman you "would always be able to decide what you would do or not do when it came to sex." That's a simplistic way of looking at a very complicated human interaction. Human beings, whether male or female, often have difficulty figuring out the who, what, when, where, and even if and why of their sexual lives. You're fortunate that it's been so straightforward and uncomplicated for you. I hope your partner or partners share your attitude.
3
Women do not consent to sex in general. They consent to a specific act at a specific time. If Weinstein’s defence succeeds then the message is that if a woman consents to anything at any time, she consents to everything, for all time. This will also invalidate the concept of spousal rape. Furthermore, on the “transactional” argument... few people would entertain this if it was used as a defence in a domestic violence case - the boyfriend would not get a free pass for beating the living daylights out of his partner if she depended on his income to keep a roof over her child’s head, for example. Our attitudes to sexual violence are highly problematic.
23
Of course they maintained a civil relationship with him. He had the power to ruin their reputation and their career. Sometimes crime victims don't behave in ways that the average person "would expect". The difficult part of the prosecutor is to explain why the behavior was rational under the circumstances.
12
@Liz - I agree with you, plus another commenter who pointed out that one accuser might be questionable but SIX? And who knows how many more are just not saying #metoo. There is also the phenomenon of Stockholm Syndrome, where the victim brainwashes herself that she loves her abuser, probably a desperate attempt at sanity in an insane situation.
9
@Ann
Weinstein was a Hollywood bigwig, not an Uber driver, so of course he would have more women in his orbit than the average man. I don’t know why people believe the number of women is indicative of anything other than the nature of Weinstein’s work.
4
No, actually that’s not the key question. The key is whether the activity was consensual as shown by an array of facts and communication.
7
If there were one victim who had consensual sex with Weinstein after the alleged assault, I might harbor reasonable doubt although I couldn’t say without hearing the testimony. But six women? Who have nothing to gain and know that they will endure a savage cross-examination by Weinstein’s attack dog lawyers? Sorry there’s no way all of them are lying. If convicted Weinstein will go to a maximum security prison because predatory sexual assault is a violent crime. He’ll be in protective custody but will live the rest of his days in morbid fear for his life - the same kind of fear these women felt when he brutally assaulted them.
9
@Arthur G. Larkin nothing to gain? they were attempting to gain then, and they're attempting to gain now: notoriety, money, book-deals, movie-deals, civil-litigation, elevated public profile, or, the 'high-calling' of all leftist / liberals: 'I'm a victim.'
Get real guy. Your analogy doesn't balance on the scales of justice and you're confused about the reality of the situation.
6
@PumpUpTheVolume What about the other 80+ women who've reported Weinstein's sexual assaults, or demands for sex in exchange for film roles etc.? Are they confused about the reality of the situation too?
3
@PumpUpTheVolume Seeking career advancement does not mean the individual who can help you has your permission to sexually violate you, it's just that simple.
3
Few people talk about the lessons of this for young women. Disgusting details have transpire. “Please be careful. Please be careful, my grandmother used to repeat when I was growing up. Distrust men. In general. Protect yourself. Be careful.”
5
@MavilaO
And it has nothing to do with blaming the victim. Hearing the gross details of what they endured, impossible to ponder what would they need to heal. Will they one day? Even if those who inflict this damage are punished, the damage, the devastation of young lives
can't be undone.
2
@MavilaO I think the good news is that today's generation of women in their 20s/early 30s are far more savvy about sexual politics and feel better able to speak up and defend themselves in the moment. So much of this shift is generational. The women who have bravely spoken out about being victimized by Weinstein have done a great service to females coming up behind them. I have a 22-year-old daughter and I assure you she has learned some valuable lessons from watching #metoo unfold, and will carry them forward.
1
This is one of the reasons why women don't report rape: they aren't believed. Even with evidence of sexual contact and bruises, women aren't believed. And some men (a few men) get away with it ....again and again and again without consequences.
I haven't been following the trial, but I have known women who have been raped, didn't tell anyone, and carried a lot of pain and confusion over the years. I believe most women who say they have been assaulted.
11
This article and its presentation of the case against Weinstein is a clear demonstration of why women are reluctant to report sexual assaults; the women are shamed, their motives and behavior questioned with hearsay. This is still man's world. Justice is light-years away. That's a great shame.
11
When the trial began I predicted Weinstein would beat the charges due to his accusers’ glaring lack of credibility.
Naturally, I was sharply attacked by fellow readers.
I am even more resolute in my belief after the witnesses have testified. Thank God we have proof beyond a reasonable doubt and not mob justice.
13
@Mark
Do you think he's not guilty of any crime or that he's being charged for the wrong crimes? Or that he's guilty but it's a bad case due to who the accusers are- slutty women society expects to sleep their way to success? This was certainly the view of actresses and models when my Boomer/pre-boomer parents were growing up. Lots of such people on juries. My sense is it's 50/50 between a mistrial due to lack of unanimity and a guilty verdict. The defense worked really hard on selection of jurors.
Weinstein was saying, "Sleep with me or I will not give you a movie role." I think nearly all of Weinstein's accusers would have a better chance of a court victory if they had gone to civil court and claimed they were subjected to quid pro quo sexual harassment civil court. I am unhappy with the amount of taxpayer dollars being spent on a criminal prosecution, on behalf of women who went back to Weinstein repeatedly after he sexually assaulted them.
14
I'm certain he's guilty. He treated these women like pawns in a very ugly game. I'm also sure he's going to get away with it.
10
Yes the women are telling the truth.
8
Weinstein had all the power and leverage in the 'relationships'. He raped women, masturbated on them and forced them to do sexual things they were not expecting or interested in. The women were there seeking work, not intimacy with that monster. The sheer number of women that he manipulated and abused is sickening. The fact that everyone who knew him (aside from his wife) knew what he was doing was deceptive, wrong and abusive, including his brother, is also sickening. I hope he is convicted and rots in jail.
13
Yeah, I believe them. Of course. He had all the power. They had none; they had all the fear. The big question is whether he still has all the power, and do we - or the judge/jury - strip him of that power. Imagine if these women were your mothers, daughters, wives, sisters, etc. The guy is a bum.
9
The women have more to lose stepping forward against Weinstein. Why would they lie?
8
Next his defense will claim Weinstein was the one who was actually raped for the roles he offered.
4
For everyone that doubts these women, would you approve of your daughter or wife going to have an audition with him?
8
@Ryan Steele what does one have to do with the other? No, I wouldn’t approve for my daughter, wife or any other female relative to audition with him... but that hypothetical scenario has absolutely nothing to do with automatically ‘believing’ the women who WERE involved with Weinstein, often for lengthy periods after the alleged assaults.
5
Personally, I don't like how this article is written. It almost as if the writer is trying to convince the readers that the women are making false accusations. It wasn't until the end of the article when it started to make more sense.
The forensic psychiatrist, Barbara Ziv, testified saying it is common for victims of a sexual assault to not report crime to law enforcement. She continues saying the assaulter might ruin their reputation or job, which in this case is what was happening.
The article never mentioned it, but the women's jobs were on the line here. Some of them were coming to him for jobs because they new he had enough power to get them where they wanted to be, such as actresses. Would anyone really want to go against a man who holds that much power?
There are so many women in this case who need justice and may not get it because of who he knows and because of his wealth.
5
@Alexis justice based on what? exaggerated-claims days, years or decades after-the-fact generated from regret? zero concrete evidence? mob-mentality? voluntarily remaining in contact with the defendant cuz they were scared? and what of prior legal-agreements & settlements -- if those are to be ignored, then how can the court be allowed a double-standard to judge the defendant now but not hold accountable the other parties of the past? does the defendant have rights to not have naked photos or drawings circulated in the court? to not have allowed testimony from accusers whose allegations didn't result in criminal-charges? To allow testimony from accusers who admit they voluntarily-remained intimate with the defendant after the alleged 'bad-acts' occurred?
3
I believe the women but the doubts summarized in this story’s first paragraph lead me to think Harvey’s gonna skate.
And then I stop to think what if I was on that jury. Belief is one thing. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt is another. I can see how I might be compelled to vote for acquittal and feel horrible about it for the rest of my life.
12
Yes, Weinstein is a man of poor character but there is reasonable doubt.
Reasonable doubt. Even if he is convicted out of “feelings” it is headed for appeal anyway and there is no way an appeals court will uphold a conviction with this evidence.
9
When you’re a juror in a criminal prosecution, it isn’t enough to think “this very likely happened,” or even “I’m fairly certain this happened.” You have to look into your conscience and ask whether you harbor “reasonable” doubt. Every last possible doubt doesn’t have to be eliminated, but on the other hand, if reasonable doubts linger, then you can’t convict. I’m glad I’m not on the jury hearing this case, but if I were, I’d just have to come to a decision. A lot would be based on being present and actually seeing the witnesses testify.
5
tragic situation. absolutely tragic. and the predictable "blame the victims" .m.o. of the defense ..... but at least this trial has witnesses and evidence.
5
I believe in "me too" but bringing in alleged victims of crimes that aren't on trial strikes me as a violation of due process. What if the jury believes Sciorra but not Mann, which seems plausible under these facts? Can the jury convict Weinstein of Mann's rape based on Sciorra's testimony? We want to put rapists in jail but letting the state stretch the prosecution to get convictions is a scary slippery slope.
13
The prosecution should have painted Harvey's relationship with these women as intimate partner/domestic violence better. I have no doubt the DA is incredibly smart, but as a social worker I find it easier for people to understand rape in a relationship better if you can prove the relationship itself is tainted. Rather than Harvey raped her and they continued to have a complicated relationship with sex years after, the narrative should focus on the power dynamics, physical violence and sexual abuse. If you ruin his character beyond his actions, it discredits him more in the eyes of the jury. But I can understand why they would want the argument to be so black and white.
Harvey craved power over these women. Multiple women have testified that he experiences sexual gratification their own fear. This article neglects to mention the massive settlement he made to other victims over the years. Harvey shows a consistent pattern of behavior that has lasted decades. It's not just one woman who he raped once, it's all of these women under him that he abused when he saw different opportunities to do so. He abuse these women physically and emotionally manipulated them.
There is no doubt in my mind that he's a predator. But Hollywood is full of them. He's just the most successful creep so he's getting all the limelight.
18
@Claire
I agree with what you said here. I think the article neglects to mention a lot of information that needs to be mentioned, because it is very important and crucial evidence. There are so many women who have testified against him with almost the same story. They were all sexually assaulted in some way, and they were all manipulated into doing so.
Harvey Weinstein is a man with a lot of money and a lot of power. I myself, would be afraid to report such a crime like that with a man who holds that much power.
1
Anything that was a tit for tat business arrangement should be disregarded, although I am sure it may have happened, it was a business call which both agreed to. In the other cases, without seeing all the proof, I would tend to believe the women.
Before you start, yes he was powerful in the industry and that is why some of these women went to him. They did not go thinking they were going to play checkers.
11
@TED338 Maybe not guilty of rape depending on where you split the p hair.
But certainly guilty of blackmail ("do this or not only will you not advance - but I block you from working again") which is also a big felony. And of course all those hostile work environment laws.
3
@Tommy Actually, that's not "blackmail," nor is it a "big felony."
1
Yes I believe the woman. It is not uncommon for woman to maintain contact with the abuser. Judging from the comments so many people follow the old misogynistic trope used for years to blame women not the monster who abuses. Look at the current psychological studies.
24
After reading about the vicious cross examination these women had to endure (something victims in any other crime do not) I wonder why any woman would press charges and put herself through a trial where she is victimized all over again. Most sexual assault victims don't report their attacks and it is easy to see why. It took a lot of courage for these women to proceed - they really had absolutely nothing to gain personally by coming forward. Christine Blasey Ford, Anita Hill, or Donald Trump's multiple accusers also faced vicious backlash but in coming forward displayed enormous courage nonetheless.
The trail of victims behind Weinstein is long and well documented. He was a sexual predator who used his physical size and power to intimidate women or to promise them careers they needed or desired. He is beneath contempt and a repulsive individual in every way. He may not be convicted but his life as he knew it is over - and that is at least a measure of justice. The president and Supreme Court justice faced no such reckoning.
57
@Lucy
This is the reason that victims must press charges against those who rape or molest them.
The reason is the person MUST be stopped.
Each woman who does not file charges allows the next victim.
The same goes for men who suffer the same fate as the women.
6
Everyone in the industry knows that Harvey is a bad apple, it’s been joked about at award ceremonies. It doesn’t matter to me if these women maintained relationship to the power Harvey wielded so cruelly and without care for anyone but himself. We all need a job. Not all bosses are good people.
24
A basic problem is the lack of vocabulary. We don't have enough words. We know (or thought we knew) what rape is, i.e., forced, non-consensual sexual activity. Then the definition was expanded to include unforced, non-consensual acts. Now the definition is being expanded to possibly include transactional sex when there is a great power imbalance.
I personally believe all these things are bad, are an affront to basic principles of human dignity, and should be criminalized in a civilized society. But there are important distinctions to be made to properly distinguish and characterise these acts. An expanded vocabulary would be an important part of making things much clearer for everyone involved.
35
These women made a deliberate choice: to maintain their silence and continue a relationship with Mr. Weinstein in exchange for work (or, at least, the possibility of work). Weinstein is despicable, but what he did is not a crime.
32
@MDB The issue isn't maintaining silence and continuing the "relationship." It's that there was something to be silent about--the forced nature of the initial sexual contact.
18
@MDB Most forms of sexual violence including rape are perpetrated but people who know the victim whether in the workplace, within a community, or at home. Victims normally have to live with and/or work with their abuser for years, keeping the secrets and trauma to themselves. Your comment is part of the reason so few survivors even come forward.
8
@MDB
What he did to Ana Scioria was rape and she did not maintain any relationship with him.
Other woman also cut off all ties with him.
It was the young women trying to break into the business that didn't have enough life experience, personal power, self worth to understand they had a choice. They assumed it was business as usual and tried to play along.
The behavior women put up with from men at age 20 far differs from what they will tolerate at ages 30, 40 and 50. Personal power grows. Fighting back becomes easier.
All of Harvey's acts were criminal; including defamation of character against all of the women that wouldn't play along.
9
The Prosecution's narrative seems plausible in some regards, but "dozens of friendly emails"? That just doesn't sound like something anyone does following forcible sexual assault.
28
@Glenn Baldwin
It's called blackmail and coercion
1
@Glenn Baldwin He promised these women, many of them probably struggling finacially, movie roles etc and some stayed in his orbit because of what he promised them and because their liveilhood and dreams were in his hands, or so they thought. And he did this over and over to many, many women. And they were scared him. This is the classic case of a man using his position of power to sexually abuse women.
4
As a nurse of many years, the slipshod walker escapade tells me Weinstein is guilty. It makes it way much easier to believe the women.
However, it is high time women are going to have to move away from the notion sexuality in secret is the means to an occupation. And the sooner the better. Our young women deserve so much better.
26
That's always the case in he said, she said cases. Assault and harassment need to be reported RIGHT AWAY.
18
A guy a lot more powerful than me, with a lot more status than I had, punched me in the gut while drunk. He thought it was funny. I didn't think it was funny. He could have done a lot for me, but I never talked to him again.
19
@Snowball Have you ever been sexually assaulted or raped by a guy lot more powerful than you?
1
No challenge at all. Pay for and obtain a report from a spy. Everyone knows that will uncover the truth.
It's sickening on every level and like apparently everyone knows, HR was working for Harvey to systemize his predatory behavior. Surprise. People do really messed up things given the situation and Harvey was holding all the cards. I think any woman who is really beat up now about Harvey's initial behavior, only to go along with it for some time afterward because the spotlight wasn't on the big picture, has a real problem of credibility. That doesn't minimize the magnitude of the systemic situation the company enabled and covered up. They are the ones that really need to be on trial. Everyone in the food chain that worked to maintain the culture. They're the ones with the most blood on their hands as far as I'm concerned.
6
It seems having women come forward with complexities in their stories, there has been enough doubt sown as to potentially let a monster get away with brutal monstrosities. This is unfortunate in the extreme.
9
I think that the D.A. should have had experts in rape cases go first, and explain to the jury, that they may hear statements and actions that would not make sense to them, if the victims had been sexually attacked. All the defense has to due is create doubt in the mind of one or more jurors; the woman who testified about using Weinstein "s name to get into the Golden Globes may have caused enough doubt to cause trouble for the prosecution.
6
why is it that I now have to think about the female performance and during the superbowl
4
So little said : who is on the jury. Women? Men? Even a hung jury will be a victory. This case will not go away.
I think the extra women thing should be used more often. Say we only have a circumstantial case of murder, then we could show several cases of animal abuse to prove that he had a predilection for murder. Or all boxers are guilty of domestic abuse because we know they like to hit people.
2
This is tough. It's clear Weinstein is an outrageous predator. But for the women who were allegedly raped but then maintained a friendly relationship with him, it's murky, for everyone. They did have a choice to leave. But they didn't want to, because they wanted whatever they thought they would get by sticking with him. They didn't value themselves enough to make a break from their rapist. That is very sad, and it also makes it very difficult to prosecute.
41
@Bob G. Yes. Consensual encounters before and after the alleged rape make this very difficult to prove. It doesn’t mean rape didn’t occur! But VERY difficult to prove.
2
Key Question in Weinstein Trial: Do You Believe Harvey Weinstein's lawyer or Harvey Weinstein..
1
Key answer: Yes
Sorry #MeToo, but this is a CRIMINAL TRIAL. I believe NO ONE - I repeat NO ONE - without solid PROOF. That is the BEDROCK of a fair and impartial judicial system and though coming forward in a timely manner to report alleged criminal activity isn’t easy, it’s the ONLY way to receive justice. It’s too late for these accusers. Their testimony might be sincere but I would never ever use it to convict another of a crime if no evidence is available to support the charges. Period.
34
Believe the evidence. Not the people.
10
If your testimony alone is used to gain a conviction, you need to be credible. Jessica Mann in particular is not credible. With those emails, I do not understand why she is the centerpiece of their case.
9
@Cold Eye Precisely.
1
Some battered wives stay in marriages when they are beaten, raped and threatened. Their livelihoods, children, homes and finances are at risk. Perhaps the same is true of Weinstein's accusers. Women often are afraid of men, often with good reason. It's so accepted, we seem to have very different standards for what women can and should do compared with what men might do if threatened. And also HR was very powerful in other far-reaching ways other than physical vilolence and intimidation.
45
@Doghouse Riley perhaps speculation is proof. Perhaps not. Speculation is not evidence in the real world. Rationalization is a nasty blinder.
1
@Doghouse Riley
I think you may be right. Battered wives stay in toxic relationships because they tend to put blame on themselves for the failure of the relationship. Sometimes they even think he may be changing so they stay to support him in his changes.
In this particular case, I highly believe the women could have been battered themselves. Due to his upper hand on their careers, they could have had the same belief of "he's changing". One of the women kept in contact with him through via email. She might have believed he wasn't actually mean to her because of the relationship they shared through emails, and saying how he would meet her mother.
To me, it looks like a hard one to escape.
3
A more useful framing would be,"Do you believe the victims?" This is a crime. There is evidence. The evidence has weight. The question is whether the evidence is credible. A victim is a victim no matter the crime or the gender.
13
It depends what it’s evidence of. I think it’s difficult to see someone being locked up for the rest of their life based on it. But if there was a crime of being a total sleazebag carry a sentence of three to five, I think there’s certainly enough evidence for that.
2
@Yann Evidence? What evidence? Cite it because I haven’t about and solid evidence. Please provide an example to support your claim. What do you consider “solid evidence that has weight to it? “
3
@ManhattanWilliam Under New York law, and literally ever other jurisdiction in this country, the testimony of one witness can prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt if the jury believes the witness and the witness's testimony makes out the elements of the crime. Perpetrators of crimes don't get to get away with their crimes simply because they didn't commit them in front of a stadium of witnesses or under the view of a surveillance camera.
2
Harvey Weinstien behaved abominably towards these women and probably others who have no come forward.
That these women continued to maintain a cordial, seemingly friendly relationship with him muddies the waters considerably.
I'm afraid (and saddened) but he's probably going to walk.
28
@cynthia
wrong wrong wrong. His method is blackmail and coercion. Pretending to be cordial is better than being assaulted, but it still isn't consensual.
@Amy To paraphrase Inigo Montoya, "blackmail," you keep using that word, but I do not think it means what you think it means.
I would like to know more about the research that shows what Dr. Ziv says about survivors staying in relationships with rapists and sexual assaulters. An unbiased body of research, not activist reports or advocacy research. I don’t disbelieve the accusers and what they say is plausible. However, there seems lack of actual evidence other than what they say, so the tie might have to go to the accused. The preponderance of evidence standard in criminal court is there for a reason.
7
Please read Trauma and Recovery by Dr Judith Herman.
1
Whereas it’s hard to prove, there’s enough volume to make the women believable. That may persuade the jury. There’s only so much the jury can really tune out in terms of things hearing things and then disregarding them.
3
@Harriet Sorry, Harriet, but you might be amazed what a jury which wants to tune out things can tune out. Which could go either way in this one, of course.
1
@Harriet so “volume” establishes guilt. If the chanters are loud enough or if there are enough of them, you vote to convict someone and send them to prison. You’re argument is the very definition of mob vigilante justice.
13
i can't imagine a jury finding proof beyond a reasonable doubt in a situation like this.
61
@Andrew Edge
They won't. And then the metoo crowd will complain. Then we'll pretend to listen but continue living after their shrill cries die down five days later. This is the way of the world.
14
@John Brown Do not equate women who have been raped with "the me too" crowd. Why don't you ask your friends, sisters, mothers who have been raped or sexually assaulted what's its like and educate yourself a bit.
3
@Anonymous
I would but it's hard to believe them based on my life experiences.
I dumped an ex-girlfriend who claimed she was raped after the police department discovered evidence that the sex was consensual and she was just trying to defer responsibility for her own mistakes. I had to convince the lead detective to not pursue charges against her for lying so that we can let her off lightly. She's since been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and is receiving the treatment she needs.
One of my military colleagues was sent home from Afghanistan and stripped of his command while an investigation over whether he assaulted a soldier under his command took place. Evidence later confirmed his alibi, nothing happened to the female soldier. He has since been discharged honorably.
Point is, human beings are flawed. Men as well as women. There can be great incentives to lie. I will not just "believe all women." I defer to innocent until proven guilty.
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