Liked the theme; hated the fill. Suable-ouchy.
2
I loved this!!! I didn't remember that et al. was short for et alii, and I don't know what a dias is. Verandaed I just accepted without even looking up, lol, but everything else was just the right amount of clever and difficult and satisfying. I love when they are clever instead of obscure!!also, loved batter to plate. My daughter was first to guess the answer as maybe cake.
This puzzle. Ugh. Inconsistent clues, weird wordplay and some words I’ve never heard of. Glad it’s over.
5
I didn’t read all the comments but as far as I’ve gotten no one has mentioned that DAIS is a platform, therefore horizontal, therefore hardly a “stand” (which ought to be vertical). The speaker takes the stage but the stage is a place *upon which* one can stand, not itself a stand in the way that a lectern is.
Caught my eye because we have the same confusion in synagogue Hebrew: the /bimah/ is the horizontal platform upon which one stands, while the reader’s desk at which one stands — the piece of furniture that functions as one’s book-stand (think: candle-stand) — is the /amud/ which derives from the root “to stand” and can properly be translated as “pillar.”
1
@Reb Deb Gordon - we also get these quibbles with lectern, podium, rostrum when they appear.
Regarding Ms Amlen’s comment on 33A — I think the Ali et alii also works on the level that Ali regained the title
4
Good evening, Deb!
This morning, when I read your column, I'll admit I skimmed the part where you explained the theme, because I felt I got it and didn't need an explanation. Now, having read your critique, I feel I have to rise to defend it.
You explained the theme as (ITEM OR NAME)(SYNONYM FOR “AND OTHERS” THAT SOUND LIKE THE ITEM OR NAME), but I saw it a little differently. Actually, I saw LIKES AND THE LIKE essentially as an early/ up-front revealer, using "THE LIKE" as the commonly accepted phrase that means "other things like it". E.g., "The pet shop was full of adorable kittens AND THE LIKE". I think the fact that the entry is LIKES (plural) followed by THE LIKE (singular) supports seeing it this way, rather than interpreting it as THE LIKE failing to sound like LIKES (like it or knot).
cont
6
cont
If you accept this broad interpretation of 'AND THE LIKE', then there's no problem with ALI ET ALII, because you don't need the second half to be fighters named ALI; you just need OTHERS who are what ALI was, ie, fighters. Which ALI ET ALII covers nicely.
Sadly, I can't check to see if this interpretation extends to all the remaining themers, as I've lost my solved grid, and I now can't see the whole WordPlay column without losing this comment. It seems to work perfectly for my favourite SETTERS ET CETERA, and if anyone claims it doesn't cover UDDERS AND OTHERS, I'll be happy to knit some over-sized woolly gloves that do.
I thought it a great little theme with a fine sensayuma.
14
Leapy,
KNOTS AND WHATNOT also fits the bill.
3
Meh. VARANDAED??
10
Ron,
I wouldn't accept that either.
VERANDAED, on the other hand...
5
I'm puzzled by the answer to 61A. Martin Cooper is credited with the invention of the cellular phone, and he was working for Motorola here in the US. He made the first cell phone call standing on 6th Ave in NYC.
Guy,
Right, but the clue says "developed," not invented or first used. Look further into Motorola; you'll find ISR.
6
Pretty tough for a Thursday, but not a bad puzzle. REfIT before RELIT (civil engineer here), liABLE before SUABLE (which, along with CLARA, had me filling in CATTLE for the stock), elv (for elevation) before ETA. I was also so sure there was a rebus, because after getting _WK for the parrot clue, I thought somehow SQUA was going in the first box of the answer.
I liked the theme well enough, and the only inconsistency of it that bothered me was LIKESANDTHELIKE, as, it being the first one I got, led me to believe the others would be similarly constructed (with the same word in there twice).
Still, a good, chewy Thursday puzzle with a fresh theme. Kudos!
8
This puzzle seemed easier than the average Thursday, on one hand, but I got stumped by some of the less elegant answers (like those pointed out by Deb and many others): repeated LIKE, multiple ALIs, EEK for big hospital bill specifically, VERANDAED (yuck!), OWNAGE...[FAKE TAN was my ultimate stumper. Had TIN instead (makes zero sense, of course) and therefore SUIBLE (ugly, I know!).] But...it is an impressive construction. My crossword education continues!
5
@Kate, in the ALI clue, it is ALI ET ALII, where ET ALII is Latin for 'and others'.
2
@Bev, yes, thanks. I do know that, but it seemed kind of a stretch to imply that there were lots of boxing champs on the level of Ali (although I didn’t explain that well).
@Bev I think it's fine: and others doesn't have to mean on the same level as Ali.
1
If I want pancakes, IHOP to it.
(What a load of crepe.)
14
@Mike
If your parenthetical comment is referring to IHOP, I heartily agree!
1
Sweet Thursday.
4
Maybe my toughest Thursday ever. I just couldn’t get a foothold, despite a few good guesses and some easy fill (TINES, ACE, CELS, DONT, SEW, AURA, DAIS, OATER). I finally looked up a few things and then peeked at the column. As Deb said, the theme wasn’t quite as consistent as it might have been, but I agree it was quite a feat to get all those long entries. VERANDAED seems far fetched to me. On the other hand, learning a new slang term like OWNAGE doesn’t bother me at all. At least you can see where it’s coming from. Not one of my favorite Thursdays, but I would never presume to blame the constructor for that. I think all constructors rock, so thanks for the workout Mr. Halperin!😃
5
I know URI because my niece went there and we kept saying but isn't a URI a urinary tract infection? She hated it there and wound up transferring so it wasn't a total loss because I gained useful xword knowledge. I had a few dumb mistakes, for some reason I was envisioning the 4 fork parts as TONGS. When I knew the G was wrong I changed it to Tones, thinking I was clever because the clue referred to a tuning fork! It's weird how the brain cannot recall a common word. I also see nothing wrong with FAKE TIN for fools gold. I did finish with no look ups, eventually.
1
@Calpurnia
Wouldn’t a urinary tract infection be a UTI?
1
@Steve L Yes. URI is an Upper Respiratory Infection.
1
@Steve L Yes, we knew that but the letters URI reminded us more of urine and it sounds very medical, due its being the other ailment mentioned in the other comment.
EEK!!
This ThursPuzz was full of XANADUSANDDONTS!
25
Cute idea for a Tuesday, but disappointing for Thursday.
VERANDA ED - Asner who spends a lot of time on the porch;
EEK, AWK, HEH! I'll try to act my OWN AGE from now on.
7
I'm missing what EEK has to do with a hospital bill more than any other large bill. I got it from the general idea of the clue, reenforced by the crosses, but I still feel like I'm not getting something. Can anyone explain why 'hospital'? Or am I just looking for a clever connection that isn't there?
3
@andrewm
I kept thinking it was going to be "EEG!" because at least that was connected to health care...even though probably no one has ever shrieked "Eeg!"
2
@andrewm
Because hospital bills are well known for having surprise charges on them—doctors that you never heard of, tests you weren’t told about, $100 charges for a Tylenol. Charges can get up into the tens of thousands and more. So much so that Congress is actually trying to get legislation passed to control this:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/12/08/upshot/deal-surprise-medical-bills.amp.html
2
Not fun for me. Too "cute."
1
Udder and Others: A drive-in dairy we frequented in the 70s called “The Udder Guys!” Hadn’t thought of that in years.
2
Got 3/4 of the fill then gave up -- too many lookups and candidates filling same slots. For instance, I filled 62A with SUEZ. (Yes it's right there, amazingly enough.)
So ... I had fun reading the answer grid and admiring the fiendishness of some of the associations.
As for the discovered theme, It made me think of some largish auto repair bills from way back in the past that actually listed "removal and repair of power steering pump etc."
Eh bien.
Dr W, Main reason against SUEZ is it's being in the clue.... asif I haven't tried entering words used in the clue times out of mind
1
@Leapfinger
.... great minds and all that ...
1
Eek!
This sprightly little ThursPuzz was just chock-full of XANADUS and DONTs! The different ways of coming at the themers confused me at first, but I soon decided it was VEERy VEERy nice and all quite Jake by me.
Still and all, mixing the ANDs with a couple of Latin ETs may have been Mr. Halperin's way of running his OWN little Kubla Con. You know he really could've modernized with a little Teutonic, pairing the actress from 'Yellowstone' and 'Ergophobia' with the lone dissenting Senator from Utah:
[Rachel] ROMNEY MIT ROMNEY
I'll admit I got a kick out of VERAN-la-di-DA'ED, and I absolutely plan to Pin SETTERS ET CETERA up on my wall.
Happy rainy/gusty Thursday. Hope everyone stays high and polyandry.
8
@Leapfinger
hmm ... that last word wasn't mine
@Leapfinger
Pollyanna dry works.
2
There is nothing quite as disheartening as when 1A is a cultural reference that you just don't know.
2
@RAH
Well, you could guess rather confidently at the last two letters.
3
Not very difficult, not very intricate "trick-wise," not twisted enough for a Thursday but very enjoyable to solve. The theme entries had a poetic sound to them and some of the fill had a cryptic cleverness to it e.g. FAKE TAN, IHOP, and DAIS. There was more to like than dislike in this crossword.
2
ALI ET ALII bugged me because to my knowledge, the phrase was spelled “et alia”, not “et alii”. After some Googling I’ve learned that the former is the feminine and he latter is the masculine form. I also had UHI for “Ocean State School”, and the crossword app wasn’t happy, until I remembered that I think that Rhode Island, not Hawaii, is the Ocean State.
3
@Michael Robison - alia is not the feminine form, aliae is the feminine form. Alia is the neuter form, plural of alium.
In Latinate/Romance languages, there is a historical preference that, in any grouping that includes any male-identified beings at all, the whole group is named by the male-identified form. This is called "male privileging," and is not a modern idea. Kind of the opposite. This is why the word Latinx is being used just now.
In Latin (Spanish, Italian, Romanian, French, Portuguese...) if there's at least one boy in the mix, the whole group is boys. Alii means (a group of any kind as long as there is one boy in there). Aliae means (a group of girls as long as there is no boy in there). Alia means (a group of things, as long as there is no boy in there).
Alumni = a mix of graduates. Alumnae = no boys in the mix. It's called specialness, and boys own it. Historically. We're working on changing it. Progressively.
It isn't going well so far.
Fake tan.
20
@David Connell I think there is a simpler explanation for ALIETALLII and it's in the clue. Ali was a champ first in the 60's and then the 70's after his title was unceremoniously taken away. Ergo ALI et ALII
2
Ouf, I have been crosswording for a few months now, and just beginning not to get totally frustrated by the end of the week puzzles but this one had me gritting my teeth —
I had the much nicer and apposite LIABLE rather than the ugly SUABLE and groaned at the other shoe-horned in words: OWNAGE (never heard of it) and OATER (?) and OHSO and VERANDAED.
Had to resort to Deb's column to get me over the line and I'm still looking at ALIETALII and scratching my head — like why isn't it ALI ET ALL ?
4
WS-23,
Because et alii is the Latin (of "our" et al.).
1
@Barry Ancona A college professor of mine once said that people cannot be considered truly educated unless they've studied 4 years of Latin. I had only studied it for 2 years --- I guess that makes me a half-wit.
15
@WS-23
OATER stumped me the first time I encountered it. It is a slang term for a Western movie or TV show.
As you continue crosswording, you will find this a common fill.
6
Can't believe 30d isn't 'victorian'. You're killing me here.
1
@Tim but they’re not, generally speaking, victorian. most were some sort of modified neoclassical style — columns, pediments, etc.
What a cute, enjoyable puzzle! How DO the constructors think of such clever things?
3
I was stuck and looked at my puzzle. The left hand side was completely filled in—easy peasy. The right side was mostly empty. That was the indicator to me that the Thursday twist was the second part of the question clues. I stopped looking for another example of whatever the clue indicated and focused on what the second part would be instead. Backwards? Rebus? Got OTHERS first, saw the connection, and was home free from there. Three ANDs and two ETs were also a nice variation. I had 5 ANDs to begin and was quickly denied by the downs on the middle two.
Overall a nice challenge. No Naticks, but some questionable fills already enumerated throughout the comments. SUABLE? However, definitely doable. (I do so hate that word. I was taught feasible, and cringe at doable. I know, it’s in the dictionary, but to me that’s nothing but ruable.)
- Tom
10
Can someone clue me in to 40A, OATER?
1
@pmb
Many John Wayne movies were OATERs (cowboy movies)
2
@coloradoz Thanks!
@pmb I think it's a spin
off the term "horse opera" for a Western movies.
3
Speaking of IOWA, I just saw the photo of the three person Democratic caucus held in Tbilisi, Georgia, which resulted in a Caucasian Caucasus caucus
14
If you go to the John Wayne museum, you will be in Madison County. You can then tour the Bridges of Madison County and feed your yin and yang in one trip to IOWA
3
But the clue for IHOP is really fun.
14
Some of the fill was a little quirky, but I liked the udders.
But seriously Deb, Bryce? We are so over all of that here in Natstown.
5
Second-grade offering? No fair with the hyphen placement. It should have been Second grade-offering.
11
I agree. This is not "misdirection"; it's depending on an error. I'd be OK with *no* hyphen, though.
4
@Charles Hartman
As mentioned before, it’s not an error. The hyphenated adjective is correct whether it means “the level for 7- and 8-year-olds” or “the second in a series of academic evaluations.”
It IS misdirection because you automatically thought of the former without even considering the latter. You thought “opportunity for 7- and 8-year-olds” and not “opportunity for a rescoring.”
@Steve L
I have to agree that this hyphen is not appropriate. It may be a misdirection but it is not a fair one. The hyphen indicates that the first word modifies the second inextricably, effectively becoming one word that modifies the next. A second-grade student, for example, is a student in the second grade. If we were to rephrase the clue to clarify its meaning, it is equivalent to “the second offering of a grade” but a second-grade student does not denote “the second student of a grade.”
“Second-grade offering” would be a cute clue for the answer “RRR” because reading, writing, and ‘rithmetic represent the traditional educational offering of the second grade. But a RETEST is not particularly offered in the second grade, or any grade for that matter.
“Second grade offering” with no hyphens is better and enough of a misdirection as it is.
In the end, though, this is just one of the flaws of a second-rate puzzle.
2
The word “suable” seems to me particularly ugly. I recognize it as a word, before somebody sends me a M-W link.
I think I quite like BITSTREAM (2wds?).
6
I’m 29. I’m hip with the slang. I haven’t heard anyone ever use the word OWNAGE.
9
You don’t play video games, I’m guessing? That’s where I’ve heard it.
6
@A It seems to be a very esoteric term with narrow appeal.
Agreed @Elizabeth, since my days on the 4Chan its always been pwnage. but for the GEEK in all of us Mr. Halperin did throw in CURL and AWK
1
Nice wordplay in the theme fills for a Wednesday puzzle but I miss the Thursday trickery.
5
I keep looking forward to the day when I routinely get the theme before I'm done with the puzzle (or after for that matter). So I was gratified upon solving that Deb didn't "get" it (or didn't like it). Still, I'm rockin' the Thursdays, just breathing and plugging on. Next up: snow shoveling!
2
Loved the IHOP clue; too many COO EEK AWK HEH types for my liking. It's pretty easy to rework some of those out; but if HEH is the price to pay for IHOP I'll take it.
5
Oh how I love little reminders that Washington won a World Series AFTER letting Mr. Harper move on! Thank you, thank you.
I thought this theme was really clever and for the most part well executed, AND once I solved the first one it helped to solve the remaining ones. It did place some constraints on the constructor causing what I thought was a clunky crossing of TBEAM and SUABLE. I also groaned a bit when I filled in VERANDAED but these are minor nits to be sure.
1
@Michael Brothers Letting Harper go gave the Nats the extra money to acquire Patrick Corbin, a very good starting pitcher. Pitching wins playoff series, especially when a team already has a decent outfield and other "big bats" in the line-up.
Wasn't happy with "suable" really didn't like "ownage". (which this blogging ap is flagging as not a word)
The fill shouldn't rule the Puzzle, sez me
8
Solving this puzzle felt like going through an ancient catacomb: tight, a little stuffy, can't see very far ahead, intersections that may or may not lead to where you want to go, squeezing through small openings, and wondering "Are we lost?" In other words, challenging and fun! Yet once or twice I did wonder if I was going to be able to find my way out...
10
I'm with Deb on this one, although I loved IHOP and I LIKEd TRES crossing RUES. The combination made me feel like french toast. I resisted SEW for so long expecting an abbreviation or THE LIKE in light of the shortened "ec" in the clue.
2
I liked the clue “Do a home ec assignment”, but couldn’t help but feel there was a missed opportunity for another theme entry with SEW ON AND SO ON.
Nice to see my friends VERA AND ED in the puzzle.
20
@Andrew i think you mean VER AND AED ;-)
A very enjoyable Thursday puzzle. Not terribly hard but hard enough to slow me down while figuring out its many little subpuzzles. The nicest thing about Thursday puzzles like this is the slow dawning of what the gimmick is, especially when like here there is no "revealer" entry. Despite plural-like definitions, only the last of the five theme entries ended with an S, making this all the more elegant. Had not known Xanadu could be a generic noun or that verandaed could be an adjective, or that ownage was a word, or that Finland was not where cellphones were invented. Was puzzled by the placement of the hyphen in "Second-grade offering?" Had to struggle a bit with (as usual) the NW before seeing that it wasn't liable but suable. Last clue to fall — "Fool's gold?" — was the best!
8
Well that was challenging.
I resumed completing this after setting it down last night. Almost immediately I got a break with ALIETALII and started filling in the gaps in the SW and SE corners.
BAUXITE before FAKETAN, and TANGELO untangled the SE corner very nicely.
Clever cluing at 52-Across, I kept verbalizing “BIAS” but obviously that would make “VERANDAED” impossible.
Kudos.
1
Two miss-typed letters left me with a presidential tan. No it is the lights, lied Tom luminously.
VERANDAED may be a word....
Thanks Jake
1
Error in the mini puzzle....
the earth ROTATES on its axis. It REVOLVES around the sun.
5
weinie,
See the second thread in these comments for a reply.
One year. My streak hit 365 days and counting today. Maybe since this is a leap year I should have waited until tomorrow, lol. I'll admit to some occasional Googles for cast members, obscure words or places if I had an open grid area or a natick, but I never opened Wordplay until I completed the puzzle.
23
Congratulations! Well done!
2
@jtmcg Congratulations! I hit the same mark last July...and then I let it go, which I recommend to anyone who would ask, which I am aware you did NOT. But, it felt liberating not to care what some counter said and to choose to do the puzzle out of desire and not habit or to keep some streak going.
3
@Michael Brothers
Thank you. Ive been a subscriber to NYT Crosswords for over 15 years. I'm retired and look forward to the daily challenge. My hobby is photography and in previous years I took several photo tours which are fairly intense , out before dawn and back after dark. During those times I didn't even try to do the daily puzzles. However for the past year personal commitments have kept me from traveling so I do the daily puzzle as part of my routine. Rest assured if my circumstances change and I am once again able to travel and photograph, the daily puzzle will fall by the wayside while I'm away.
3
Gonna go easy on myself today and call this a “solve” (no capital ‘S’). Whatever others may have thought, I didn’t find this one “easy”.
Had ANNA, LIABLE, ATT, GRAM, VARY, PRO and probably others where they messed things up - but, other than a quick peek at Deb’s WoW, no “research” was necessary.
There should have been NO hyphen in the clue for 43D. Would have avoided lots of wadded shorts herein.
There were FOUR 15-letter theme answers Deb.
Don’t see what’s objectionable about VERANDAED - - other than it just “looks” funny. It’s accurate and easily pronounced.
OWNAGE earned an initial objection from this department - until I found it has an archaic definition - in addition to being a slang word. (Why don’t I ever see “arch.” as a clue modifier?_
My favorite clue was “Down-to-earth fig.”!!
2
TIL et al. can stand for ET ALII and et aliae, as well as et alia (which was the only one i knew!)
decently fun puzzle, had a few quibbles here and there with clues but nothing i couldn’t eventually get with the help of crosses.
4
I could go on and so on about what I liked about this puzzle:
* A most original theme, ably executed, IMO.
* Made me wonder if we can start calling last night EXPM.
* PETE near RELIT and RETEST made me think of the "Pete and repeat" riddle I haven't thought about since childhood. Does anyone remember that? (You can Google it.) Brought me right back to kid mind.
* Clues that made me dig hard to figure out.
* Clues that drew chuckles (for FAKE TAN, IHOP, EGO TRIP, and RETEST).
* The lovely AE in VERANDAED, countered by the symmetrical EA in BITSTREAM, plus the freshness of those two answers.
* The optimism shining in EDEN and XANADU.
* The amazing relevance of IOWA and PETE.
Wow, Jake, Thank you. This was an upper for me, and, IMO, an upper-level Thursday.
15
@Lewis
As you often do, you made me see things I didn’t see and appreciate things at a higher level than I originally did. Thanks, Lewis.
9
@Lewis - don't forget that PETE was clued to Pete Davidson, which takes Relit and Retest to a whole nother level!
3
@Lewis Captured my pleasure with this puzzle exactly.
2
Bryce Harper? I assume the photo was chosen because the Nats won the 2019 World Series, so that's cool. But Mr. Harper did not play for the Nationals in 2019.
@David Goodhand
Most likely Mr. Harper was chosen because the selection of photos from which the crew can choose is surprisingly thin. But there was nothing inaccurate in the caption; Harper was a Nat in 2018.
Hands down a two thumbs up from me. Very much my kind of wordplay.
6
I completed the puzzle correctly but verandaed is a new one on me. Thankfully I sort of remembered ADEN and PETE seemed to be only first name that worked.
1
Oh, my. I have to agree with Ms. Amlen that this puzzle needs reworking. The theme answers are cute but a little forced. I'm not much of a purist, and I assume that my objection to 'ownage' has more to do with my advancing age than its legitimacy as a word, but VERANDA-ED? Ouch. OED cites it from 1810, but it seems to have gone (deservedly) obsolete.
I also wonder about running this puzzle on a Thursday. It took me about 19 minutes, slightly less than two-thirds of my usual Thursday solve times.
In several decades of NYT puzzle-solving, I've never felt quite so disappointed that I felt compelled to share. Hope we can do a little better in the future!
18
This was no XANADU for me -- DON'T LIKE groaners!
2
LETTER BOXED
L-S(8), S-G(6)
Yesterday FOPS SPECTACULARLY.
5
@Andrew
Today I have:
U - S (7), S - T (7)
YESTERDAY:
TOECAPS SULFURY
PECULATORS SOFTY
2
@Andrew
Yesterday
PROTECTFUL LAYUPS
Letter Boxed answer
FOCUS SPECTACULARLY
Yesterday: FATSOS SPRUCELY
Got the latter first, then fiddled about till I got the former.
SPELLING BEE GRID
Feb 6th MMXX
O C I M P R Y
WORDS: 32, POINTS: 117, PANGRAMS: 1
Starting Letters-Frequencies:
C x 8
M x 6
P x 12
R x 6
Word Lengths -Frequencies:
4L x 15
5L x 10
6L x 6
9L x 1
Grid:
4 5 6 9 Tot
C 5 3 - - 8
M 1 2 2 1 6
P 6 4 2 - 12
R 3 1 2 - 6
Tot 15 10 6 1 32
(Y-Axis: Starting Letters, X-Axis: Word Lengths, X/Y Co-ordinates: Frequency/Number of Words for that letter and length)
57
@Mari Just missing R6 that's not ornate
2
@Kevin Davis A type of movie - light and amusing, usually centered on a couple/love affair.
6
@Mari Forgot that one a couple times before. I'll add it to my list :)
4
What is RUES as relates to a Paris network? Lol as I typed it I suddenly saw it. M.
2
Pretty easy for a Thursday. Proud Jew that I am, and super proud of start-up nation, but don't think really we can claim 61A.
Also, can someone parse the PIPES?
2
@Dan a smoking pipe might be lit, then RELIT, over and over.
4
@Bob I guess you'd have to spend some time around pipe smokers to understand. They are always relighting them.
3
Dan,
The cellphone clue says "developed," not invented. I wondered too, and learned that a lot of Motorola's work on cells was done at their facilities in Israel. Who knew?
3
I agree on the “pre” and “prefix”. I thought it was a sloppy pairing of clue and answer.
“Ali” and “etalii” was clever I thought. Sonny Liston was a rival to Muhammad Ali, and the etalii referred to Liston I imagine.
2
@Joan Bittfield It may have been clever, but as Deb pointed out though, the clue was just wrong. Laila Ali did not box in the 60s and 70s. That ruins it for me.
@pmb
As explained elsewhere, "et alii" is Latin for "and others." The boxers were "Ali and others"--not Ali and other Alis.
3
As least, it was not much dreaded thursdays' rebus puzzle.
1
@Gulzar I was a little disappointed that there wasn't a rebus or THE LIKE.
I have to take exception to 43D -- Second-grade offering? -- which brought us RETEST.
The hyphen makes it a compound modifier, which would indicate that the "offering" was either for (or by) kids in second grade or of dubious merit.
Without the hyphen, we're talking about the second -- not the first but the second -- opportunity at a better grade, as the solution intended.
Or maybe I'm just mad because I finished 3-plus minutes above my Thursday average.
Nonetheless, 28-game streak, Baby! (Last fail was that infamous Thursday last month that ruffled so many feathers.)
10
(see earlier threads for clarification.)
I kept filling in a lot of what seemed like crazy answers. Batter going to plate made me think of something baked, cookies or pancakes, then an I as the first of four letters made me think, "surely not IHOP!" because where would "eventually" come in? But it helped with three of the downs.
I finally ended up with two wrong letters. Got the first A of VERANDAED from Deb, and had to change what had been Tao to TEA to get the music. Almost a solve, just under an hour. Better than I usually hope for any more on a Thursday.
1
Those Edens can't be found
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlVD-jrq_Yk
Le Coucou
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9K7G3Tu81Y
Run (like an antelope)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs2L6S3olEs
Not only is "ear" something trained in music school - the name of the class in many schools of music is literally "Ear Training"; other schools name it "Musicianship". The teacher who taught me the most in school had her own nomenclature, and insisted on "Hearing" and "Advanced Hearing".
7
I liked it OK. Woulda liked it more on a Wednesday. Ready for something really crunchy now.
5
@Ann I was a smidge disappointed that there wasn't a Thursdayish trick.
I have to respectfully disagree with this take from Deb:
43D. Nice wordplay. “Second-grade offering?” is a RETEST, because it is a student’s second change at a good grade.
It would make much more sense if the clue was hyphenated as "Second grade-offering." The original clue implies that this is something that can only take place in "second grade," and that is not the case. I would say it was a "misleading wordplay."
21
@TommyD
It's a chance for a second grade (hopefully an improved one), so second-grade offering seems fine. As clued, "second-grade" is a compound adjective. "Grade-offering," as a compound noun, doesn't seem as much of a thing.
I guess you can look at it a couple of ways.
4
@TommyD
There should have been NO hyphen. It was entirely superfluous.
2
@PeterW
It’s wordplay. WORDPLAY!
7
In the 43D clue, the dash in “second-grade” seems like an error. Remove it, and the clue is fine.
9
@Tom Downing
As I said above, as an offering to try for a second grade, the compound adjective makes sense to me.
3
@Martin
Recommended you both times. These double-nit threads (couldn’t resist) seem to be missing the grammatically acceptable wordplay in “second-grade offering.” If a student takes a RETEST, they have two grades. The teacher can either throw out the lower grade or average the two grades. As you point out above, the compound adjective “second- grade” is capable of two meanings and the one being used is the less obvious of the two. But that doesn’t make it incorrect.
(Deb did have a typo with “change” for “chance”).
3
Thanks. I see it now
2
VERANDAED notwithstanding, there was a lot to like about this puzzle. I thought the themed clues were very clever but it took me a while to catch on. I loved the clues for EGO TRIP, TINES and FAKE TAN as well as the virtually duplicate clues with different answers. For me, a challenging but enjoyable puzzle.
5
@Robert Kern
"Verandaed" notwithstanding indeed.
I just can't wrap my mind around that one.
2
Like it or no, I got it with just the V.
(And frankly ...)
5
A student’s second change... or second chance?
1
Yes, Katie, it is a typo (in the column). Stuff happens.
1
TIL OWNAGE: From the urban dictionary "The act or state of perpetrating fierce and unholy domination against another, typically in a videogame setting, resulting in shame and embarassment for the victim and his/her family until the end of time."
I will feel shame and embarrassment forever for not knowing OWNAGE until this late stage of my life.
2
@coloradoz wait until you learn about pure pwnage!
4
@Bob Yes that bugged me too. PWN is far more common (and slangier) than OWN as an expression of domination.
And don't get me started on VERANDAED. When the word was originally borrowed by the Raj it had an H at the end.
4
@Louisville Andrew,
Howdah you know that?
I agree completely with Deb on the inconsistency of the theme answers and the "so-so" nature of the cluing. For me, this one fell didn't offer the solving satisfaction of a typical Thursday puzzle. I did enjoy the iHop clue, though!
8
Didn't love it, for the same reasons Deb pointed out - the themers worked too hard to achieve parallel construction. But, my biggest issue, was cluing Trekkies as "geeks." I'm as far from a geek you could hope for at 76 but am going to my second Star Trek convention in Vegas this summer! Be there or be square...as we degenerate hippies used to say.
18
Like Liz B, I had a few words up top, but a lot more came working in the bottom section; and I worked up from there. Was somewhat stymied by the themers, until I hit the top one, realized the trick, and filled the rest in. Last fill was OHSO, courtesy of realizing it was OWNAGE, not pwnage.
3
and Elke
The FAKETAN and EGOTRIP made me think of an OH SO ,if not TRES , stable genius (Mr.Ed ?) in an OATER where many UDDERS may be found...
Some nice clues e.g. 31D- ETA for "down to earth fig.", and 63A-IHOP for "batter goes to the plate " , ET CETERA.
Good to laugh (again). Especially with two heavens on earth : EDEN and XANADU .
4
Easier Thurs for me, only because I got all the crosses pretty early. I'll presume if it was "easy" for me, then the "community" will find it easy. SUABLE and EXPM gave me fits though.
I personally hate "sound" clues, but I understand it's necessary glue: EEK, AWK, COO, UGH, HEH
It's funny, on earlier week puzzles, I'll usually reserve filling in an answer unless I'm sure of it. On later week puzzles, I'm so desperate to have any letters in the grid, I'll throw down whatever first comes to mind. Fortunately, my first guesses were right, (today).
5
What's an oater?
3
An oater is slang for a western movie.
1
@Gdo
A John Wayne movie (a cowboy movie)
An oater is a western. The term may only be used in Hollywood. I see this 2002 headline in 'Variety': "ABC’s making hay with oater."
1
Good to see Marion Morrison and his museum giving IOWA some recognition that is unrelated to caucuses
11
@coloradoz
Phil Ochs’ “Pleasures of the Harbor,” which he wrote after watching a John Wayne/John Ford movie, “The Long Voyage Home.” Ochs greatly admired Wayne as an actor, even though he disagreed with him politically, especially about Vietnam:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnD_ZdALLdY
(as for the caucus, my view is big whoop).
1
@coloradoz
Rethinking my big whoop assessment.
1
3D. Since when is it acceptable for the clue to contain the answer? Clue - prefix, Answer - pre.
7
@Queenie Agree. Could have been ‘Lead-in to...’
1
Clue of the day was the one for IHOP. Brilliant.
I thought OWN AGE was what my mother always told me to act when I was a kid.
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@Wags I agree with you on IHOP! I wonder if it will make Lewis's list.
HEH heh on acting your OWN AGE! That would have made a cleverer clue than the slangy thing, IMHO.
I liked it more than Deb did. No quarrels with the cluing (I did have PWNING before OWNAGE). Solved in 85% of my Thursday average time.
11
Fun, rhythmic, solve. Steady beat to the end, punctuated by the sonorant long theme answers. Just the right amount of tricky.
3
What's not to like about this puzzle? Lots of fun!
9
This was pretty relaxing for Thursday. Like Puzzlemucker i’ve come to dread this day a little, but this was fine, and after the run of puzzles a couple of weeks ago I don’t mind getting to float through one.
1
When Deb loves a puzzle, I really love a puzzle. When Deb doesn’t love a puzzle... I still usually like it a lot. I think I’m just easy to please ;)
At a chain breakfast joint I used to frequent, there’s a dish called Caps, Et Cetera. It’s a plate of mushrooms and cheese and not much else. I always loved saying its name, just because it had a certain playful cadence. UDDERS AND OTHERS reminds me of this. No reason — just a fun rhythm.
13
I think Ali et Alii is fine because it’s Ali and others (including Cassius Clay if you want a name that’s not Ali, come to think of it)
10
Easy, and not really tricky for a Thursday. I enjoyed the wordplay in the theme entries.
No complaints about the clues, but I agree that VERANDAED and XANADUS are imposters.
5
My TABU story--my parents gave me a bottle of it as a present when I played my first piano recital, in sixth grade--so I would have been 11. Don't know what they were thinking, or why they thought it was suitable. But I felt very grown up!
Oh, the puzzle. It was just off-kilter enough to how my brain was working tonight that it was a couple of minutes slower than my average. Never heard of OWNAGE, and I didn't really love SUABLE. Took a while to understand the clue for RETEST. My solve kind of went from the bottom up. I do like it when things are a little bit out of the ordinary.
8
Liz,
You felt very grown up. I think that may explain what your parents were thinking.
5
Funny how I feel nervous before starting Thursday puzzles, wary of devilish trickery, and then feel a momentary letdown when the theme becomes apparent and the puzzle seems to complete itself. This was an “easy Thursday” for me but still felt novel. And to me it was fun and satisfying. The FAKE TAN clue was CLASS A, and how can you not like UDDERS AND OTHERS?
7
Jeff Chen (lukewarm about the puzzle) and Jim Horne (loved the puzzle) both thought UDDERS AND OTHERS was the weakest themer, and Deb seemed to just barely tolerate it. I found it charming and it was my favorite themer. The theme wasn’t a strict homophone theme and is pretty hard to define, but to me UDDERS AND OTHERS had a fun Brooklynese flair to it: “Hey, you shoulda seen the UDDER guy.”
18
Two comments.
One: “ 2D. I wanted PYRITE for “Fool’s gold?,” but we didn’t have enough letters. And there’s that “?” The answer is FAKE TAN.”
And I know just the fool.
Two: ALI ET ALII means Ali and others. It doesn’t mean Ali and others also named Ali. It just means Muhammad and other boxing champs. And there were others.
50
@Steve L
On point 2, I’m glad you came to the fore, man.
13
@Puzzlemucker
When turning a phrase, yer the man.
2
Agree... I think the theme is “something” and a synonym of “others” that sound like the “something”...
But do agree with Deb that the theme is quite loosely presented.
5
Fun puzzle. I initially filled pwnage in for OWNAGE, but corrected eventually. I think there's been discussion of their proper subdomains (sports vs e-sports, maybe), but neither is a word that I would use in conversation
6
Felt pretty zippy but enjoyable. The theme definitely helped.
Today's clue of what the earth revolves on. Actually the earth ROTATES on its axis and REVOLVES around the sun.
6
@gp
You’d think, wouldn’t you? But there’s this:
revolve verb
re·volve | \ ri-ˈvälv , -ˈvȯlv also -ˈväv or -ˈvȯv \
revolved; revolving
Definition of revolve
transitive verb
1 : to turn over at length in the mind : PONDER
revolve a scheme
2a obsolete : to cause to go round in an orbit
b : ROTATE sense 1. ********
intransitive verb
1 : RECUR
2a : to ponder something
b : to remain under consideration
ideas revolved in his mind
3a : to move in a curved path round a center or axis ********
b : to turn or roll round on an axis ******
4 : to have or come to a specified focus : CENTER —usually used with around
(Merriam-Webster)
4
@gp Just to be clear, this comment (with which I agree) refers to the Mini, not the maxipuzzle.
Yes, I was confused about that. This astro professor figured the first answer for the mini-crossword for February 6, 2020 would be ORBIT, but it didn't fit.
I always teach the difference as what gp wrote.
Deb's story about her grandmother's perfume is both funny and sweet, made me smile for both reasons.
16