Kansas City Chief fans CHOP and WAR CHANT joins Florida State Seminole fans, Atlanta Braves Major League baseball and English Exeter Chiefs rugby team. It is just as comically stupid wherever it appears.
6
Perhaps the KC Chiefs should rebrand their mascot to be a corporate Chief Executive, and then everyone would wear business suits to watch the game, and whip out their checkbooks to make donations to their favorite charities.
8
This and a million other stories about people being offended by something that is not intended to be offensive (things like cultural appropriation, for example) are really about something much bigger.
The problem is not with the Tomahawk Chop. The problem is with the place that Native Americans have in the US today, with the racism that they experience every day, with the history of mistreatment, murder and oppression.
They do not have many weapons to fight back with, and sometimes they only chance they have to challenge these is to fight over side issues which (even the article shows) are not a big issue for many Native Americans.
When the Native Americans start to feel like fully included, respected members of the US family, nobody will be objecting to the Tomahawk Chop anymore.
I am Irish. 100 years ago, Irish immigrants were oppressed and mistreated. I imagine that at that time, seeing the name and mascot of "Notre Dame Fighting Irish" would have seemed offensive. Today, with Irish people fully integrated (and it helps that we're white ...), nobody cares - we love to see Notre Dame lose, but that's just because every true college football fan loves to see Notre Dame lose :) - we don't mind the name.
Everytime I hear about groups being offended by something that isn't intended to offend (cultural appropriation being a great example), I always ask myself: is it really about this one thing, or is it just that this is a rare chance to be listened to?
11
Thank you for that. With an Irish grandfather, I always wondered about the Fight Irish logo (Go Blue! ) and was never offended. Your points were superb.
3
I interpret the action to represent the strength, aggression and passion of the Native Americans who fought and are still fighting for their rights as the first Americans. Kansas City selected Chiefs as their identity and I personally do not see anything offensive in the gesture. My father was adopted and we now know he was part Indian. I've always been proud of that.
5
Off the coast of Florida swimmers are being attacked by outraged and aggrieved aquatic mammals - dolphins - over their anger at an NFL team and its fans. They have agreed to stop - only if granted the right to operate a casino on Miami Beach.
18
What a load of poppycock!! Get over it! The exclusivity that native Americans, NA's, have over things like chiefs and tomahawks, along with bows and arrows is that they were still using them long, long after Asian and European cultures had advanced beyond them.
NA's don't have an exclusive claim on being treated badly after being thrashed by a conquering force. Many Scots and Irish still look at their history of getting their butts kicked time and time again by the Brits and don't feel very good about it. Folks of Mongolian descent don't much care for being looked at in a lesser manners by China after getting conquered.
As humans spread across the globe, conquest and defeat has been a part of every single major society. Our NA's would do best to learn from those that have done the best over the years in being part of a conquered people. Get over it and count your blessings! What other culture has conquered another and allowed the conquered people to maintain sovereign rule over areas within the conquered land? It has happened but not often.
Symbolism of North America's past through use of Indian names and attributes is a testament to the greatness of those people. They help keep the history alive. As we cherish our differing histories, our greatness is in bringing it all together in unity. A NA is as American as any other citizen of our country.
10
I turn off the sound every time I hear them chant it. To me, it’s more tedious than offensive.
3
Meanwhile, Eagle's fans laugh at the quaint concern shown by KC fans.
1
'Mockery' ? Franchises in most of the major sports in this country chose to name their teams after Native American figures. Think they chose those names with anything other than respect in mind ?
'John Learned, a member of the Cheyenne and Arapaho united tribes, led a small group that in 2013 encouraged the Chiefs to break from traditions that involved non-Native people dressing like Indians. But the chop, Learned said, was not offensive because it had no real meaning to Native communities.'
So much for the 'Tomahawk Chop' 'division' and 'offense'. And I get it, it's one guy's opinion. I'm sure that there are a lot of people out there who ARE offended by it. I'm guessing that a lot of Native Americans have adopted parts of other cultures. Just like most cultures living in the modern world have done. The world has gotten a lot smaller, nothing is really uniquely yours anymore.
3
As somebody who is from India, I take offense to someone else calling themselves indians. How are you going to placate me? Where's my privilege?
8
No matter what the topic is, there will ALWAYS be someone who is offended.
There is nothing in our Constitution guaranteeing the right to go through life unoffended.
Political correctness is not law, but an attempt by some to manipulate others into conformity with their ideas.
I guarantee that there are many of the first people (there are no indigenous Americans, we're ALL immigrants), who like the chop.
This is a non-issue.
4
"the act is a disrespectful gesture that perpetuates negative stereotypes of the nation’s first people" "The local Indian community’s views on the tomahawk chop run the gamut, Crouser said, from those who think it is fine to others who are offended."
Another mythical conflict which seems to originate in the minds of certain reporters of the news, intent on getting some immediate attention for their respective newspaper. There should be a line between reporting Factual news as opposed to gossipy sensationalism. The Indian community hasn't even condemned the ritualistic behavior and if offends some people, well, get over it. It can just as easily be interpreted as a symbol of power and determination. In the end, the article succeeds in getting attention, and response, for what in reality is a non issue.
5
There are so many tangible ways in which Native Americans are oppressed and disadvantaged. Let's focus on how we can make meaningful impacts on improving lives for these individuals rather than this virtue signaling nonsense that has no real impact on anyone.
4
The Super Bowl will be over this weekend; who's the scheduled target next week for the culture critics?
5
To quote a scene from Pulp Fiction, they look like "dorks."
3
This voting tribal member doesn't find it offensive at all, but do know a good many tribal members who do. My grandfather was a huge fan of the Washington Redskins, attending many games before we moved back to Oklahoma from the DC area, and took great pride in the name of the team. He especially loved it when they played the Cowboys. Please quit the charade that all tribal members are of the same thought and take offense, as this is nonsense. Those who holler the loudest aren't necessarily the voice of the people.
6
Much ado about nothing...
9
Poll after poll has shown that Native Americans overwhelmingly either approve of or don't care about Native American sports mascots and traditions, and this includes the Washington Redskins. This is article nothing more than a woke activist attempting to invent an ax to grind.
4
For a serious comment on this topic, having lived within close proximity to some very impoverished reservations in the western states and known people who lived and were raised there, it's disingenuous of The New York Times to suddenly raise an issue like this simply because the Chiefs are in the Super Bowl this weekend.
If they were truly concerned about Indigenous Americans we'd be reading about it every day or week in the paper or online. Their interests lay elsewhere.
4
No matter what the topic is, there will ALWAYS be someone who is offended.
There is nothing in our Constitution guaranteeing the right to go through life unoffended.
Political correctness is not law, but an attempt by some to manipulate others into conformity with their ideas.
I guarantee that there are many of the first people (there are no indigenous Americans, we're ALL immigrants), who like the chop.
This is a non-issue.
4
Like so many actions, it is the intention behind the gesture that really matters. Most people are not trying to denigrate Native Americans, but I can see where one might not appreciate the gesture, given our history. Perhaps both sides should try to be a little bit more understanding of what's actually happening here.
2
I might be rooting for the Chiefs in the Super Bowl were it not for their tomahawk chop.
6
Go Chiefs!
3
Oh my! If that’s the standard for your support, I imagine they would just tell you to pass.
1
Group insensitivity and being easily offended has been brought about by the progressive Democrats pushing identity politics. This is a good example. Why would a tomahawk chop showing support for their team be offensive? It is showing power, not weakness.
4
A story you can only find in a blue city newspaper.
10
I'm from Winnipeg (Canada) - home to perhaps the largest Indigenous population in North America. There's plenty of racism in Winnipeg, and Winnipeg is not holier-than-thou. I've been going to Kansas City since I was born, almost fifty years ago (my grandparents moved there the year before I was born). Chiefs fans, I drive thirteen hours each way to see my beloved team (teams - the Royals too). I've got signed Len Dawson, Marcus Allen, Tamba Hali, and Travis Kelce (and George Brett and Buck O'Neill) photos on my wall. I was there for 142.2 and couldn't speak for two days afterward. Most recently, I went to the divisional round game and loved every minute of it - except for the minutes when seemingly everyone else reduced Indigenous people to stylized caricatures. Real, live Indigenous people are not mascots, theme songs, or other playthings. There are so many ways to be proud (and intimidating!) without reducing any group of people to that.
20
Chicago Blackhawks? A cartoon mascot.
2
Arrowhead Stadium has room for over 75,000 fans and is often shown with the entire stadium- full to capacity- performing
the Tomahawk Chop. Are you telling me to believe that there is not one person in that assembly that possesses some degree of Native American ancestry ?
5
@JaneK has Elizabeth Warren ever been there?
5
Just get over it, realize you don't get to control others just because you don't like it, and then you'll feel much better. Finding offense is offensive and divisive and creates depression and anxiety the person seeking offense.
7
David- you get over it, and show some respect. Who wouldn’t want to control how their community is treated?
10
@David, No one is trying to control you, but some of us are trying to persuade you to see things differently.
3
Supposing, just supposing now, that the Native Americans took the borrowing of the chop action as a compliment, as a way for the Chief fans to acknowledge the power and strength of the Native Americans and equate it with the power and strength of their team. Wonder how that would go?
Sometimes I do wonder if some of us look for ways to be offended rather than look at situations as a positive. Remembering that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, perhaps we can take some things as a compliment rather than as an insult. Just saying.
5
Change "offensive" to "hurtful" because that is what is being discussed here. The gesture is hurtful to many indigenous Americans who saw their culture persecuted, nearly destroyed and is now being denigrated.
If I scream in someone's ear and they tell me it hurts and ask that I don't do it again, do I really need to understand why my screaming hurt their ears? Do I need to argue with them that the screaming didn't hurt my ears so their ears are too sensitive? No and No. All I need to do is decide whether I want to be the kind of person who hurts people or not.
15
@Daphney Daniel Yelling in an ear is offensive and hurtful. The chop is just a gesture for fun, and if you take it that way, then you won't be offended, and you certainly are hurt by it.
4
Every team except FSU should stop this. FSU has a unique relationship with the Seminole Tribe of Florida, which reviews and sanctions these type of actions.
1
Don't be too sensitive. Live and let live in the country of free.
3
So should the Irish be offended by the cartoonish leprechaun mascot of the Boston Celtics?
There's no end to this slippery slope.
Considering where this country was 50-70 years ago in its representation of native Americans on TV and in books, we've come a long way.
10
Boston is a city with a large population of people with Irish ancestry. I have to believe that many Irish had a voice in the developing of the Celtics branding and images used to promote the team. That is not the case with the teams using Native American images and caricatures. In fact groups representing Native Americans have been reporting that these representations are hurtful and offensive —they need to be heard and actions need to be taken to remove the offense.
31
“J-E-T-S Jets Jets Jets Jets” deeply offends me as an environmentalist. And as I am a bit under 6’, I find the “Giants” name demeaning. Enough already with the complaints - let the Chiefs enjoy their Super Bowl.
18
3 Jets not 4.
@LTJ Yes, an PETA doesn't want you use names of animals either, and Scandinavia doesn't like the use of Vikings, and the UK doesn't want us to use "English" for our "American" language.
Try on, land of the free, home of the brave. It's much better than land of the authoritarian, home of the offended.
4
Gee, I wonder which publication will find a political issue during Super Bowl week? Why, look, it's the New York Times! Shock of shocks.
17
The Chiefs could change their name to the Chefs and the chopping thing could be all about dicing onions or some other chopping thing that Chefs love to do.
Or they could change their name to the Lumberjacks or the Paul Bunyans and the chopping thing would represent them chopping wood.
As it is now I think the chopping thing represents American Indians using tomahawks to chop up the head and bodies of their enemies.
The team's fans could add to their repertoire of motions a head scratching motion, it would represent that they don't really know what the heck they are doing.
9
Is the Minnesota Viking demeaning to people of Norse descent? Just wondering.
11
@Glenn Baldwin Nope.
@Glenn Baldwin
Were Norse people exterminated in large numbers and forced from their homelands by the American people?
10
@Glenn Baldwin
No. But it would be if the vikings were almost extinct and their culture decimated and their land conquered after a genocide. Then it most certainly would be offensive.
8
Chief Wahoo has gone,why not this??
3
Stupidity is contagious. The chop is stupid. Avoid it.
Root against the Chiefs but not because their fans chop. Root against them because they think it’s acceptable to celebrate Tyreek Hill as one of their stars.
You know, the ‘man’ who beat up his pregnant girlfriend a few years ago. Why he is not in prison instead of starring in a SuperBowl is a problematic mystery...
7
@EGD everything about those accusations is suspect. She's on a recording admitting that she fabricated the entire thing. He's on the recording - not knowing that he was recorded - saying that he "took the fall for her" at that time.
It's a sad situation, but it looks much more like Munchausen syndrome by the mom (and him covering for her) than abuse by Hill.
1
Gross. Grow up, fans.
7
The tomahawk chop exemplifies ignorance of living Native American people. Not Indians attacking the Conestoga wagons in old westerns, although Ian Frazier in his wonderful book On the Rez tells a great story about those actors - the director offered to pay extra to anyone who would fall off their horse while "attacking" at full speed and on the first take, all the Indians charged and threw themselves off their horses. It was a story about the courage and bravery of a young basketball player who was a hero on her Rez. And the Native American culture of heroism.
Which is the opposite of a bunch of fans sitting the stands doing nothing but eating and drinking while mimicking and insulting a culture they have no connection with. This is from another era. Its awful.
Go 49 ers
7
@Shef True, the natives rode on horses and used guns, both imports and neither part of their culture.
2
Get over it, already. The tomahawk chop used by Chiefs fans and the fans of the Florida State Seminoles is not meant to denigrate Native Americans. It is meant to celebrate the team that their fans hold dear to their hearts. Not every tradition in sports is racist, despite the attempts of the politically correct to make it so.
12
@paul
Why can't they celebrate their team without demeaning anybody? Why does their fun have to come at the expense of others? Maybe Native Americans can start a sports league and their nickname can be the "Americans" and the chant they use to celebrate their team could be pantomiming taking a bite of a cheeseburger.
4
It should be as shameful for whites to pretend to be Native American as it is for them to pretend to be African American. It is considered disrespectful and racist to dress up in blackface because finally most white Americans accept black Americans as their equals and deserving of respect. White Americans need to continue their march toward humanity and democracy by accepting Native Americans as their equals and deserving of respect. Dressing up as an Indian, playing at warpaint, whooping and chopping, drumming without mindfulness--these mocking behaviors do as much damage to white people as they do to their Native American brothers and sisters. White people need to stop the damage done by these kinds of mocking behaviors and acknowledge that Native American people are their equals by getting rid of the mindless sports practices which stereotype and belittle the original peoples of our homeland. Everyone who cares about sports, about the health of this country, and about humanity ought to read the APA Resolution Recommending the Immediate Retirement of American Indian Mascots, Symbols, Images, and Personalities by Schools, Colleges, Universities, Athletic Teams, and Organizations (see the text at https://www.apa.org/about/policy/mascots.pdf).
41
@Gloria Floren Nobody is pretending to be native american..they are cheering for their football team.
8
Search for somebody, somewhere to have hurt feelings about something so that you can write about it, semi-politically, is really getting old--and will backfire.
Too bad that many of the the fans and players are not white. Then, the gloves could come off and the Big Critique would be freely applied.
Just to confound things further, the metal-headed tomahawk came into existence with the arrival of Europeans, who, as was/is their habit
4
Chop or no chop, the Chiefs will never win a Super Bowl with Andy Reid as their coach.
He's going to mismanage the clock or make some other Reid-typical error.
Besides, does anyone really want Travis Kelsi to win a Super Bowl?
@MattNg lol. It’s Kelce. We’ll see.
In the past, I would go outside and chop wood. I would chop kindling to start a fire in my wood stove. So, maybe it is more in the name than the gesture. Let's just change the name to "The Prairie Chop" to recognize all the people of Kansas and Missouri.
3
Yet another reason to root for the Niners in the Super Bowl!
2
I can't honestly say that there's a single thing that anybody does or says that I consider personally offensive. And I think I'm better off for that.
24
This is some good journalism. The reporter strikes the right balance and tone with the enduring and touchy subject of Native American stereotypes in our culture. The internet is full of bad reporting and writing, national prestigious outlets included, and it is refreshing to read a story that is well-sourced, fair and easily tells the story.
4
I have never known any group to pick a name, mascot or cheer for their beloved team to which they did not attribute positive vibes and values. Simply because some act has a Native American nexus does not mean it is meant to disparage Native Americans but, much more likely, it was chosen to exalt a positive trait associated with Native Americans (and--hopefully--their team as well).
14
Kirk-I suggest you do some reading on the topic. Since Native Americans haven’t done “tomahawk chops” in a couple of hundred years, and they did them in wars against the US government that they lost, this foolish gesture is no “celebration” of culture. It’s a mean-spirited mockery. Find another way to rally the fans.
7
@Talon Being offended harms yourself unless they are actually harming you. When the US was founded, natives used western-introduced horses and guns to fight back.
1
I wouldn't say it "unites" Chiefs fans. Many hate it and refuse to participate. The fact that the tune is piped in to the stadium is especially galling. The Kansas City Star has urged an end to it for years. Being a football fan means living with a lot of cognitive dissonance, but this is the bane of most thoughtful KC fans existence. I suppose the self-evident horror of the Washington "Redskins" gives the Chiefs organization cover before being forced to confront it. The NFL bears some responsibility as well.
11
@CraiginKC The pic shows just about everyone in the stands doing it. Newspapers are unfortunately hotbeds of PCism and don't reflect the views of locals across the country.
3
No matter what the topic is, there will ALWAYS be someone who is offended.
There is nothing in our Constitution guaranteeing the right to go through life unoffended.
Political correctness is not law, but an attempt by some to manipulate others into conformity with their ideas.
I guarantee that there are many of the first people (there are no indigenous Americans, we're ALL immigrants), who like the chop.
This is a non-issue.
30
@Raz Aww sunshine. Your parsing of the word indigenous people really gives you away. It is an issue that deserves to be discussed even if it makes people uncomfortable. Every generation revisits what is acceptable in discourse and action. Changing ideas threaten the entitled portions of our society. Recall the phrase "rule of thumb" and consider that entitled elements of our society were threatened by the progressives that thought that husbands punishing wives was antiquated. As Bob Dylan once said "your old road is rapidly aging, so get on the new one if you can't lend a hand."
5
@Raz This humiliates real American (yes they were the first) and should be discouraged.
6
@quickkick
We're all "real" Americans. Being first doesn't give one exclusive rights to the term.
1
What, exactly does the "chop" mean? I've seen it demonstrated by fans of Florida State University (Seminoles?)
Is is similar to making a stabbing motion with a dagger?
@Caroline M
FSU has been authorized by the Seminole Nation to use the Seminole image and related affects. The tomahawk chop has been used by fans for many decades. End of controversy for FSU.
1
If no one is upset by a team being named the "Redskins", about as racist as you can get, they're not going to care about a gesture resembling a tomahawk.
4
There is no uniformity of opinion about the "Tomahawk chop" in Kansas City. Many of us who support the team deplore the insensitivity associated with the crowd's actions and chants. But many of our society's lack of respect and misunderstanding of other cultures stems from a systematic devaluing of culture and contributions of "the other". So the true culprits are not ignorant, insensitive Chief's or Seminole's fans, but those who devalue history, and perpetuate myths about America.
6
Just like a post or comment on social media offends certain people, the basic tenet of just keep scrolling applies here.
If you don’t like something, ignore it. It’s not your business what others do.
7
Maybe the KC fans should take a short drive to the nearby Kickapoo or Potawatomi reservations so they can learn more about the local tribes. I grew up there and had many Indian friends. They lived in complete poverty back in the 60s and still do today. Not something we should be proud of. #DROPTHECHOP.
33
@GNK
What does the 'chop' have to do with these tribes living in poverty ? Let's say franchises like the Chiefs, Indians, Braves, change their names and logos to something more PC. How does that help these tribes ?
12
@sheikyerbouti Skyler, I don't want to speak for GNK but I think he is commenting on our priorities. We claim to be honoring the first american's culture while at the same time forgetting our neighbors that live in poverty. How can you be a proud Oklahoman and Chiefs fan and not acknowledge the genesis of those symbols.
Oh... BTW Go Chiefs, win one for Andy.
Answer: It stops them from being mocked by ignorant fans.
3
Don’t forget the Florida State Seminoles! When they played the Miami Hurricanes (and usually lost) at home, the chant was deafening.....It’s impossible to forget the sound. I guess they should switch to the “Seminole Shuffle”?
7
As a Washington Redskins fan I'm clearly biased, but I honestly can't understand why a gesture like the Tomahawk Chop or a name connected to the Native Americans should be considered offensive. Even the name "Redskins", as much as it WAS a slur in the past, is no longer used at all, if not in sports and only in reference to the Washington football team. All fans in Washington, KC, Cleveland etc, are proud to 'resemble' the glorious tribes that used to roam and own the land in what is now North America. Personally, when I was a kid, I always rooted for them against the cowboys, in movies or comics, and always despised the genocide they have suffered. Columbus Day should not exist. The fact that I hate discrimination and always respected the native american population is actually one of the main reasons why I chose the Washington Redskins as my team, almost 40 years ago. If I pretend to play an 'air guitar' while listening to Metallica, or if I lip-sync during a Michael Kiwanuka song, I'm not mocking them, I'm admiring and trying to identify with them, and the same happens if a fan sings about Redskins on the warpath or gesture a tomahowk chop. No one wants to mock the symbols of their beloved teams, but quite the opposite.
12
@Andre
Maybe when you subjugate, oppress, and commit genocide on a people and then create a stereotype-- and a violent one-- for a pastime, someone is likely to take offense.
29
@Andre
Just because a term isn't widely used anymore if not a very strong argument. Would the Washington Orientals be an acceptable team name as well? The very fact that it "was" (is) a slur, by your own omission, is reason enough why it should be changed. If you were to call a Native American a Redskin to their face, I doubt it would be inferred as a term of respect or reverence.
26
@Andre It is one thing to play air guitar, it is another thing to pick something from a culture that was nearly obliterated by your ancestors and assign a completely different meaning to it, especially one as essentially meaninglessness as professional sports fandom.
13
From article:
“I don’t think they should take offense,” Shirley said. “I enjoy going to the stadium and doing it.”
So much is about non-Native people wanting to do what they want to do, without regard for indigenous people. Want land? They take it. Want to make “Indian” art and say it’s “inspired?” They make it. Want to keep enacting this ridiculous mockery of indigeneity? Mr. Shirley and thousands of others do. Because he enjoys it.
Lord knows we don’t want to bother to be considerate of others. It’s just too much trouble, and no fun.
49
I mute my tv when the chop starts and wish whatever team pushing it loses, so too bad for K.C, Cleavland seminoles et al.
And by pushing it I mean that every team and stadium has speaker systems that they blast to instigate and amplify this obnoxious divisive noise.
12
If Native Americans think the chop is offensive: it’s offensive. Political Correctness is really an attempt to simply make a space within society for those Americans who are not white conservative Christians. We stole their land, crushed their culture, and continue to dismiss their concerns...what could be more American than that?
50
@Ken I heard the term "political correctness" a lot growing up.
As an adult, I've come to realize it just means: "I should be allowed to offend you without facing any negative consequences because I'm part of a privileged group (white, male, hetero, cis, etc.) and my opinion is more important than your humanity."
47
Just rename the team the Chefs. Then the chop will have a whole new meaning.
103
@PWR
Then the chant that goes with it would be offensive. ;)
2
Like the Kansas City Woodchoppers!?!?
As a Washington Redskins fan I'm clearly biased, but I honestly can't understand why a gesture like the Tomahawk Chop or a name connected to the Native Americans should be considered offensive. Even the name "Redskins", as much as it WAS a slur in the past, is no longer used at all, if not in sports and only in reference to the Washington football team. All fans in Washington, KC, Cleveland etc, are proud to 'resemble' the glorious tribes that used to roam and own the land in what is now North America. Personally, when I was a kid, I always rooted for them against the cowboys, in movies or comics, and always despised the genocide they have suffered. Columbus Day should not exist. The fact that I hate discrimination and always respected the native american population is actually one of the main reasons why I chose the Washington Redskins as my team, almost 40 years ago. If I pretend to play an 'air guitar' while listening to Metallica, or if I lip-sync during a Michael Kiwanuka song, I'm not mocking them, I'm admiring and trying to identify with them, and the same happens if a fan sings about Redskins on the warpath or gesture a tomahowk chop. No one wants to mock the symbols of their beloved teams, but quite the opposite.
4
I understand the offense Native Americans feel about the portrayal of themselves throughout modern history; but there is another, often overlooked, side to this history. From the very beginning, Native Americans proved to be formidable warriors in the face of aggressive foreign forces who had these new weapons called firearms.
Plainly speaking, Native Americans knew that they were out-armed, but that did not deter them from defending their land at the cost of their lives. Think of, "Into the valley of death rode 600..." Carry that out to the natural, heroic conclusions for those Native Americans.
In spite of all the objections, I think that the underlying notion behind sports' teams' references to Native Americans is not one of denigration or disrespect, but of recognition of a brave and courageous people. The "Chop, chop." thing is silly and offensive, I agree.
But don't confuse that with the reason why some sports' teams refer to Native Americans. I think those teams' names are intended to be an honorable reference to Native Americans and I think that all people should acknowledge that. Sorry. I have no claim to being one of them.
14
Political correctness taken to its extreme finds possible fault with all names. A solution is to replace names with numbers.
8
@Don Peterson
I like it, name them:
39° 2' 56.1804'' N, 94° 29' 2.0976"
The GPS location of Arrowhead Stadium
“The Chop” and it’s cartoonish yammer chant are reason enough for any sensitive football fan to say, “Go Niners!”
13
@Pomeister You'll be sorely disappointed on Sunday then. ;-)
Does anyone actually care about this besides journalists who are short on ideas but long on ideals? Focusing on something as silly as the KC Tomahawk Chop is nothing more than another inane distraction in a world filled with real problems.
42
Yes, the “Tomahawk Chop” makes people look stupid and it is deeply offensive.
28
Bad Karma for the chiefs - go niners
13
If you are looking to be insulted, here are some reasons. How is using the word “Chiefs” to refer to Indians any different from using “Boys” for blacks? And how about that arrowhead as a symbol of Indians? Is it right to confuse their descendants with the Hollywood cartoon version of bow-and-arrow primitives?
What the Redskins imbroglio should have taught everyone is that, on the scale of priorities, I have to believe that many Indian people would prioritize addressing bread-and-butter ones well ahead of such symbolic gestures. The continuing unfairness of their economic and political situation arises directly from wrongheaded government policies that need to be corrected, rather than from what individuals may say or do in a stadium or bar.
But then, talk is cheap especially when someone else has to foot the bill. So, sure, lets ban the tomahawk chop, feel virtuous and move on. That should solve the larger problem, right?
9
For many people it is the ritual invoking america’s first people to make yourself more exalted than others is a mockery.
First people?
Read. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_of_the_Americas
Wave after wave of invaders. Navajo and Apache are some of the latest.
About two thousand different American continent languages.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_languages_of_the_Americas
Meaning—let me explain—there was not a first people but the same ol ball of confusion.
But dull college classes in the pseudo science of critical race theory are what give some the high facts don’t. And it is taboo at the Times to spurn that pseudo science.
6
Tough.
3
I live in KC and I’m a fan of our football team. I went to a game last month.
I wont wear a shirt with an arrowhead, the word “chiefs” (or similar) on it and I do t do the “chop”. It’s easy to enjoy a game without taking actions that are hurtful to others.
47
As the piece notes, fans of baseball's Atlanta Braves do the same. I'll never forget the evening of October 13, 1993, when the Phillies beat the Braves for the National League pennant. After the game I was in McGlinchey's, a dive bar in downtown Philadelphia, which was packed. At one point, the entire crowd started doing the Tomahawk Chop. It was an unsportsmanlike good time for all.
The Phillies went on to lose the World Series to Joe Carter and the Toronto Blue Jays.
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How difficult can it be to respect the requests, and replace the negative stereotype with another way to cheer and celebrate. I am endlessly amazed at how disrespectful we humans can be in the simplest circumstances.
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@Tricia Why live life worrying about offending others? Also they've done polls on this and Native Americans aren't terribly offended.
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@Tricia Apparently for many, refraining from overt discrimination is a step too far.
I wonder how many of these same people are the first to throw out the term "reverse discrimination" when topics like affirmative action, police brutality, etc. come up.
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I tend to think that Americans, with the media playing a crucially problematic role, are overly sensitive, actually unreasonable about matters involving political correctness.
One cannot make a statement, regardless of its veracity, about an ethnic group or race without being accused of cultural appropriate and/or out right bigotry. This has had a chilling effect on an honest dialogue regarding crime, education, and other monumental social issues.
I see the topic covered in this well-written column as a notable exception to this trend. I am a committed football fan and I find this chant to be racist and antiquated. I hope that the NFL takes action to ban it permanently.
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Cultural Appropriation?
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As the mother of a son who is 25% Native American I find this gesture to be an embarrassment to White people. To be sure not all Native Americans are bothered by this but enough have spoken up and asked that this gesture as well as monikers that are offensive not be used. So don't use them; what is so hard about that? Standing by a line that says this is tradition is like saying slavery is tradition. Can we all grow up please?
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I really wish KC, Chicago Blackhawks, as well as Washington Redskins, (as well as NCAA teams) organizations would actually bring in actual Native Americans to games to promote and carry on various dances, traditions and rituals. Nobody actually cares about the pregame, 1/2 time entertainment or cheerleaders. It would be great that in Arrowhead stadium we had actual Native Americans on the Drum Deck, or incorporating dances, or whatever they find appropriate.
Instead we continue to marginalize Chiefs "Nation". We call it Chiefs Kingdom. For the life of me, I have no clue why they use that terminology. Kingdoms are for royalty (kings, queens, dukes). Native Americans are Nations of people. It should be Chiefs Nation.
Not only does it sound dumb, (kinda like saying Happy Christmas, or Merry Valentines Day), but it doesn't even include the iconic image of a Chief, Indian, Blackhawk, Seminole or whatever Nation you imagine it to be.
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I'm a 50+ year, life-long Chiefs fan and the "chop" is an embarrassment. Leaving aside all the political-based arguments, the simple fact is that this is the Florida State Seminoles chat. Leave it in Florida. I have to turn the volume down when that nonsense begins.
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Not even America yet, how about just indigenous people?
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quoting the article
“It doesn’t show K.C. pride,” said Howard Hanna, the chef and owner of The Rieger, describing his dismay as the impromptu chop unfolded in his restaurant. “It makes us look stupid.”
Yes it does!
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@ed scott
But I notice that Mr. Hanna DIDN'T go a little further and say " and that's why I don't allow it in my restaurant."
Hmm?
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@Connecticut Yankee , so you are suggesting that he should have stood in the middle of his dining room and shouted "shut up" at all his patrons? It started spontaneously and it's not as if anyone asked for his permission.
Hmm?
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@Sharon -
"so you are suggesting that he should have stood in the middle of his dining room and shouted "shut up" at all his patrons?"
Actually, if it upset him as much as suggested, umm...YES!
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That's "first peoples", not "people". Indigenous Americans are not a monolith. As for the chop--yeah, it's racist. The blithe mockery of indigenous cultures and the perennial reanimation of racist tropes in American popular culture seems to rest on a notion that Native people are as good as dead and gone. Not so.
Here in Canada we are constantly beset by issues that stem from the violent dispossession of indigenous territories, as well as our ghastly history of actively trying to erase native languages and cultures. But for as messed up as it is here, at least indigenous issues are having to be dealt with. In the U.S., at least via the American culture and media that travels across the border, it seems as though our neighbours largely ignore the existence of indigenous peoples. I suppose that is down to the fact that 4.9% of Canadians are indigenous (7.7% of those under 14) compared to 1.6% of Americans. As well, our major cities all have significant urban indigenous populations. I'm not sure this is the case in the states.
The triumphalist attitude toward indigenous genocide in the U.S. mainstream is only now beginning to recede, and articles such as this one are necessary for that trend to continue. Hopefully, as it has with Canadians, a time of reckoning will come. Prepare for it to be painful.
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The Native American population has, for more than 3 centuries, suffered what amounts to a literal holocaust at the hands of the European “invaders” and their descendants. Millions have been killed, entire tribal populations have been uprooted from their lands and forced to live, mostly in poverty, in barren deserts. All of this celebrated by American movie and entertainment industry, resulting in an American population that is completely oblivious to the history of this slaughter and present day living conditions of the Native American population. It is time for American to wake up to this situation. It is a disgrace and stain on our nation.
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@Jack O’Connell
I appreciate your succinct history of contact.
As for waking up to the disgraces wrought by irreverent greed; the best case scenario would be an honest attempt to plan and implement a Green New Deal. The heedless desecration of the natural world was and is the deepest wound out of which flows a stream of atrocities.
As an indigenous person (Waaganakising Odawa), I can think of no better healing balm than to focus effort and resources upon the rehabilitation of rivers instead of the building of weapons.
Tribal cultures are not about tomahawks or whoops, for goodness sake. It's a matter of humbly acknowledging our absolute dependence upon the living earth.
Let's pay ourselves to clean up this disgraceful mess.
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