What a great interchange. It made my day, after the Republican so called defense, killer virus out of China, US Israeli love fest of two indicted presidents, etc. I couldn't stop laughing at several points in the column, lack of sex issues among the 80 something Democrats among others.
3
Does anybody really think Elizabeth Warren won’t have a major, MAJOR role in a Sanders administration? The Intercept reported last week that the Sanders campaign had done research to see if Warren could be both Vice President and Treasury Secretary. Turns out she can. So why worry that she won’t be “in power”? And while she’s not all that much younger than Bernie (albeit in seemingly great health), Warren could remain a prominent figure in the executive branch for a good long while, and perhaps even move into the presidency. And after her, AOC & Company! Sanders is the candidate to usher in this new government that is finally by, for, and of the people.
So I wish the centrist press would quit hand wringing about grumpy old man Sanders. The man is at the head of a movement (which includes Warren) that promises to reshape the political landscape. Let him lead! Let the movement come to fruition. Like so many who have commented in these pages in recent weeks, apart from Bernie’s run in 2016, this is the first time I’ve been enthusiastic about the potential of American electoral politics in fifty years. There’s no reason to fear a Sanders presidency; but there’s plenty to fear if a centrist, corporatist Democrat takes the helm or, worse, if Agent Orange gets re-elected. On which point allow me to say that, as in 2016, Bernie Sanders is among the very few candidates who can actually trounce Trump.
8
You want to reminisce about quaint sex scandals? Remember when Jimmy Carter, while running for president, created a firestorm when he stated during a Playboy interview that (clutch your pearls) “I’ve looked on a lot of women with lust. I’ve committed adultery in my heart many times.”
The NY Times reported:
"Spot interviews in selected areas around the country disclosed great concern over what Mr. Carter said...."
4
I give the media a lot of credit for listening and reporting to the impeachment trial and its associated circus because I no longer have the stomach to follow it, given that it is a foregone conclusion. I doubt I will be the only person who can't bear to watch him on Feb 4 , 2020 crow during the SOTU address about how he beat conviction in the Senate and that he is now INNOCENT of everything, including throwing spitballs at someone in 3rd grade.
4
It is either tax cuts or strong defense, can't be both. if you think deregulation is going to save money just look at the cost of climate change and pollution in all forms. Deregulation contributes to poor water, air and food quality. it also results in a warming planet. When you let oil companies extract from every corner of the globe without contributing to pollution cleanup or climate warming mitigation, we all pay the cost for their reckless pillaging of the earth.
7
"there are only two subjects in our current political world: impeachment and the Democratic presidential race."
Some of us consider the Supreme Court to be the most important subject in the world of politics. Perhaps we're wrong.
As for the presently-likely Sanders–Trump match-up, the only question is which one is less qualified to hold the post.
Trump has clearly demonstrated his success in this regard, and the only question is whether Sanders could out-do him. I suspect that Sanders could, and by a fair margin. That should frighten all of us, but I also suspect that we're beyond that now.
1
Capturing a majority in the Sanate and increasing House seats would, after taking the WH. make Trump impotent. He claims article two but its second to the legislature in Article 1. Article one Trumps #2 as it was intended.
1
First 3 minutes of tucker carlston tonight January 28th involve 2 topics totally unrelated to senate hearings, Bolton’s book, and McConnell short on votes to block democracy. Diversion.
1
Predictable. Bret loves deregulation. Forget having viable wildlife populations or clean water or clean air or uncontaminated meat or laws against Wall Street fraud or saving the planet from global pan frying. Let's clear out all those pesky regulations so the Street has an unimpeded path to the bank vault. Pathetic.
5
OK, Bret. You met and, presumably from you commentary, interviewed Trump when he was a candidate. He "couldn’t seem to answer a single question in a remotely coherent … fashion".
Can you please answer the burning question in many American minds? Does POTUS DJT, in you opinion, have an IQ higher than his age? Seriously. Not a trick question. I really really want to know. So far, no one (that I have respect for) will say.
5
Why Iowa should play such a crucial role in the nomination is almost as much a mystery to me as why people insist on pretending that electing a presidential candidate means that, magically, their proposals will be adopted.
3
Yet another brilliant comical repartee by Stephens and Collins. You're welcome. Not the floor hugging stuff from a good SNL parody but a pleasure to read. It is amazing how our politics have evolved towards complete amorality. Trump will be given a pass for everything he has ever done.
That will change though if we can send home next January. I'm the Southern District and Manhattan's District Attorney have some surprises for him and his family when he leaves office. I've heard that there is no statute of limitations on RICO charges, and RICO is all about Trump.
Otherwise, the Democratic primary looks a bit worrisome at the moment. That may all change very quickly in July with a united party heading towards Trump in November. There is no real reason why the Democrats should not win in the fall. They clobbered the Republicans in 2018 by 9 million votes. That same margin in November 2020 will deliver the White House. As for impeachment itself, I have no doubt this will be a pyric victory for Trump and the Republicans. History will not be kind to any of them.
5
Don’t give us hope (insert derogatory word). How do we know you are as you claim to be?
4
I have one thought at this point that bears expressing, just because. Our Republicans made short presentations.
Likely because their arguments against IMP were ________.
(Fill in the blank).
They quickly concluded and disappeared into closed-door strategy sessions. Closed to the public or the other sides?
Yet, they inaccurately portrayed and accused the Democrats and Independents of closed House hearings, however false that accusation was?
1
What could be a more meaningful political campaign than two 70+ year old polarized populists yelling at each other, and us?
1
I can come around on tax cuts, and a strong defense, but never de-regulation.
2
All Democrats need to do is come around on tax cuts? Handing out rebates to the uber wealthy and tax ordinary citizens? The FOX viewing audience won’t vote for that unless they lie about it and throw in the racism. Is Bret suggesting that’s the sure way to win an election in the USA?
At least Gail is funny.
6
Just one more thing I ain’t gone read!
Bret, don't bother thinking about whether Lamar Alexander's conscience might start eating at him. He's envisioning a peaceful, happy existence as a well-liked and respected former Republican senator in red, red, red Tennessee. And he's not going to let an impeachment that he has been studiously trying to ignore change that.
5
Bret, please direct me to the policy of any Democrat that calls for a weak defense.
While you're at it, you could search for the "open borders" policies from Democrats that your party seems to constantly claim exist.
Pack your lunch though, you're gonna be busy searching for a very long time.
Btw- deregulation of the banking system is exactly what brought about the Great Recession of 2008. You sure you want to go there again?
7
Gail,
Unfortunately, Trump CAN win with only his base. Scan over op-eds in your own newspaper, particularly the recent piece by Ezra Klein. The Democrats—or rather the anti-Trumpers—are perfectly capable of bailing on the opposition Democrat should the nominee not conform to a prejudged ideology. Even your genial chat partner, allegedly anti-Trump, will either vote for the Pres or a third party favorite should Sanders get the nod. Ask him. And passionate voters of the “left” will do the same if a “moderate” is nominated. If just a few voters do that in Wisconsin, the game is up. It’s that bizarre Electoral College that gives added advantage to the GOP. That and purists.
4
This is hardly a fair fight.
Republicans don’t have consciences to burden them.
7
Bret and Gail, thanks so much for this! It provided more insight and in a more readable form than dozens of articles and interviews here and in other reliable news outlets.
The NYT should ask you to write such conversations down every day or ask others to emulate you on the days when you don't have time.
3
Bret: (1) You're a little way off. 80 is the new 30. Just keeping you plugged in.
(2) As for "I think it’s why [Trump] loves his rallies. He’s picking up cues from them as much as they are from him." -- You convinced me; it's obvious once you say it. How could this lead to the Presidency?
1
We are, of course, an autonomous collective though some might consider us bloody peasants.
Hugh
1
Do I have this right- did Ken Starr and Alan Dirtowitz Implicitly argue that Bill Clinton should not have been impeached? Starr’s work at Baylor implies as much. Dirkowitz says he studied more about the area that is not his area of expertise and lowered his standard. Still we all know more about me too than before.
3
I continue to love it when you guys get going. Thanks.
BUT--
--you remind me of a dinner party I was at once. Many years ago.
Little girl is hurt or offended or hassled by little boy. Loud indignant screams from little boy. Any number of wrathful grownups turning their outraged attention on little boy.
I turned MINE to the little girl--
--who was sitting there eyes glowing, lips parted.
She couldn't WAIT for condign punishment to be inflicted upon her tiny assailant.
And when you guys get talking about Mr. Donald J. Trump being forcibly EJECTED from the White House--
--lips parted, eyes aglow--
--well, who blames you? Not me. Betcha dollars to donuts I look the same. Maybe we all do.
But Elizabeth Warren fighting for financial protection for consumers--
--GRILLING Mr. Mulvaney MERCILESSLY when he was up for Senate confirmation--
--which (of course) he speedily won in today's GOP-dominated Senate--
--well, Ms. Warren won my own undying support. Looking out as she was--tirelessly, indefatigably--
--for people like you and me.
So what'll happen as this election gears up?
I don't know. But i DO look forward to hearing you guys discuss it again. Thanks.
3
Perhaps, this year, when Donald Trump arrives at the House of Representatives to give his state-of-the-union address, the House sergeant at arms can announce Trump's arrival thusly, “Madame Speaker, the impeached president of the United States.”
5
Now, remember this just 'The Don Reality TV Show'. The season's finale is February 4th. When the winner will give a 'State of the Union' speech to celebrate and rant about "He won" and Space Force's new logo.
But first—survivor con-testent Donald J has to be acquitted in this week's episode, which requires getting his "team" to vote to acquit him and keep him in the game. Stay tuned to all networks.
The easy way:
Have the President testify under oath.
And if he lies, impeach and convict him for that.
Bingo-bango.
Presto-change-o.
Why wallow in Watergate...when the Guiding Hand of dishonor, and disrepute, can light our Way too!
4
"You elect a clown, you get a circus!"
Maybe that's what evangelicals believe -- that Trump is just a clown, and his policies are all that matter.
I've heard religious people argue that he's been faithful to his wife (No. 3), that he didn't pay off Stormy, that he doesn't lie, that his choices for his Administration have been perfect (until they weren't), that he won a majority of votes, and that the media misportray his time at his golf courses as vacations.
In effect, they believe that Trump is the anointed one, not the elected one. "He thinks like I do," some say. "He knows problems aren't that hard to solve."
3
Deregulation is bringing us dirty air, dirty water, unsafe and contaminated food, imperiled wildlife, an unlivable world and it the single biggest reason I became a Democrat (long before Trump utterly destroyed any reason to be a Republican.)
8
Thanks for pointing out to some that all of our founding fathers were not Federalists. It's great that your column is the first here at the NYT to recognize that their was opposition to what was written in the Federalist Papers...Most others, including you previously, quote the Federalist papers as akin to law or perhaps legislative history. They were neither. They were basically opinion columns.... The NYT and others should explain what and who the Federalists were and compare and contrast their opinions against those of "anti-federalists" and other writers at the time. Instead, it seems they pick a quote they like, attribute it to a founder to justify their premise, without putting the quote in context or explaining other opinions made at the time..Its lazy writing. Telling me your opinion is ok I guess. It's common for celebrities to only provide that. But NYT writers should be held to a higher standard. Compare and contrast your opinion with others. identify the weaknesses in your argument and those that would argue against you..
.Otherwise your arguments are likely to be unpersuasive. More like rants than arguments. Maybe that's what readers here want. Simple affirmations and quotations that confirm their beliefs. I prefer comparative analysis. But I'm old. I probably expect too much for the writers here..If ranting is the only way to sell papers, then I guess you need to rant away!
1
Sen. Dianne Feinstein became the first Democrat to suggest that she could vote to acquit President Trump!
I bet Adam didn't expect this. Ooops
1
The curmudgeon John Bolton looks like a modern day Mark Twain, without the white suit and the chuckle-producing zinger lines.
But Bolton gets the last laugh: He is the fellow who had a big white hat hidden in his closet, and he may yet rouse the posse to apprehend con man Trump.
2
Right-o!
Unfortunately the GOP got this a bit twisted, should take out the 'rotten'!
"Always look on the bright side of life
If life seems jolly rotten,
There's something (Bolton)you've forgotten"
1
Gail, Bret,
C'mon.
Who will win the Superbowl this coming Sunday?
You guys are out of touch with America!
Almost nobody even knows there is an impeachment trial.
:-)
3
The Mainer women I know have a spine. Susan Collins, not so much.
2
Mr. Stephens's "age of Who= .....-prison" has cheered all of us hyphenation-as-inadvertent-social-commentary-humor enthusiasts.
1
Professor Dershowitz knows he has it bad, when even the clams on Martha’s Vineyard won’t have anything to do with him.
2
Yes it is unbelievable that “Trump emerges from the trial stronger politically and, if it’s possible, even more shameless.”
No witness to-wit - you must acquit!
Man! Have you guys read “ A Very Stable Genius”?
What’s the Arizona Memorial? Are you kidding me?
He didn’t know what the Arizona Memorial is?!?!
1
This is the first time I have ever read the convo between these two and not wanted to smash my screen reading Bret's shrilly conservative hysteria. He almost seemed like a rational human being.
3
if you look around the globe for election results, Brits chose Boris, Russians took Putin, Americans elected Donald (a.k.a Le Horrible), Taiwan picked Tsai (nickname Cabbage Tsai, meaning "empty vegi"), and so many others yoyos (Brazil, for example), it is hard to argue that Democracy works...
or human beings are dumb?
2
Anyone else find Collins not that funny and Stephens not that smart?
She would be hard pressed to find work as a satirist without the NYT banner and Stephens hasn’t had an original thought since he came over from WSJ.
This will be my last column from them.
3
Please NYT super reporters - just one more Trump-is-guilty bombshell. Tonight or first thing tomorrow. Remember Doug Flutie on that magic night in Miami.
"Gail, all Democrats need to do is come around on tax cuts, deregulation and a strong defense and we’ll never disagree again."
Fully agree :) All I want in life is to be a billionaire with my own set of lobbyists buying up politicians in Washington, own an oil and gas company, a healthcare company for those that can afford to pay (high value credit cards accepted,) and a defense contractor. Just as Bret recommends.
Then I would be in fat city and over time become Mr. Creosote, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_z_mnSSmQg another Monty Python creation and less hopeful than Idle's "Always look on the bright side of life."
2
Bret -- "The most memorable meeting was, of course, with Donald Trump, who couldn’t seem to answer a single question in a remotely coherent or non-narcissistic fashion."
And, without making a single coherent comment, Trump told you perfectly and completely who he is, and exactly what kind of president he would be, and is. You might say, 'his messaging was perfect', even without coherence.
Maybe, instead of 'Great Wonderful Leader', his self-imaged title should be 'Great Babbling Communicator'. Just listen to one of his rally speeches... that's him, exactly.
2
This is the best and funniest banter I have read in your column.
1
The chief theme of a Sanders administration would be an amazing torque between a program that he would wish to enact, and a Congress which, even if both houses have Democratic majorities, would have zero interest in enacting that program. It would be weird. Would President Sanders and Congress find a way to meet each other somewhere in the middle? I can only hope so. A Sanders presidency would be no paradise, including for socialists. It would just be 1000 times better than another Trump one.
Brett Stephens' mind is about 70% trussed up in the strait-jacket of his conservative mindset. But, my God, the dude is a great word-slinger! His metaphors!
These semi-weekly conversations between Brett and Gail are one of the five best features in the 'Times'!
3
Trump's Pentacostal "spiritual advisor"- the blonde with the cut-out sleeves was praying for miscarriages for that special demographic of "demonic pregnancies" while his lawyer was whining for Americans to "walk in this president's shoes", the shoes that were walking all over our Constitution. I can't wait til regular America shows up again. Can we just exile Trump???
Tell Bret that Trump's tax cut upped the debt 75% since 2016/Trump. That might cheer his soft spot for tax cuts.
2
You’re extrapolating too much from poll results in two small, snow white states. Wait until a Bernie runs into the buzz saw known as South Carolina and Super Tuesday. I suspect your tune will change then.
“I have to congratulate you for taking Bernie Sanders seriously before I did. It’s really beginning to look as if he could win the nomination.”
Really, Gail? A bad boyfriend? At the large organizing event for Bernie that I attended this weekend the room was overwhelmingly female. Who wouldn't want Bernie as a boyfriend? He'd be honest, authentic, and consistent. You'd never have to worry that he'd be cheating on you with some lobbyist from Exxon, Raytheon, or JPMorgan. He'd always have your interests in mind.
1
Yesterday, they tried to impeach Biden.
But he isn’t President yet.
What is this: “no fan of what he stands for”? What could be wrong with affordable healthcare and affordable education for all? Are you in denial about how things are in much of Europe?
Are you a cheerleader for the big corporations?
Trump's Pentecostal "spiritual advisor"- the blonde with the cut-out sleeves- was praying for miscarriages for that special demographic of "demonic pregnancies" while Donald's lawyer was whining for Americans to "walk in this president's shoes".
I guess he means the shoes that are walking all over our Constitution. I can't wait til regular America shows up again. Can't we just exile Trump like the last Napoleon ???
Tell Bret that Trump's tax cut upped the debt 75% since 2016/Trump. That might cheer his soft spot for tax cuts
1
I thought you guys should have closed the article by singing (and adding lyrics to) "Always Look At the Bright Side of Life" from Monty Python's "Life Of Bryan". The country is certainly going through a "Python-esque" moment. Maybe that means we will all laugh about it when it's over. P.S. I have the DNC server.......it's full of cat videos.
There is a poll that I guarantee would show overwhelming support for Bernie's wild-and-crazy idea of Medicare for all. Ask current Medicare recipients one question: Would you trade your current Medicare coverage for private health insurance?
2
Bret. I am in my 70s. Just today I told
a friend 40 is the new 20. 60 is the new 40 and 70 is 70. Just saying
"Well, if a global perspective helps make our domestic predicament seem less gloomy, tens of millions of people are under quarantine in China as the country struggles to come to grips with a deadly virus. In the immortal words of Eric Idle, “always look on the bright side of life.”
Let me get this straight you actually think hundreds or maybe thousands of people dying from a virus is a good thing because it makes China's leaders look bad. My god man how cynical can you be. Yes, in fact this tragedy can bring about possible re-examination of top down communist control in China and more calls for democratic rights, that is a good thing but it does not make one happy for many people dying. On the other hand if your impeachment predictions are correct and Trump is even made stronger, then Russia and Putin who continues to control us and is far more of a threat to the political and economic world order than China. And the Republican party embraces Trump's embracement of Russia. Now that is really a cause for gloom.
1
Gail and Bret! I love you guys. Smart. Civil. And "pretty" humorous. ;-) A shout out for Bret on the tell-the-whole-story-(the WHOLE story)-hyphenated-chronicle-of-events flourish.
1
Letting the Turks work out what sort of arrangement they need to keep the PKK/SDF/YPG away from the Turkish border was really our duty to our NATO ally. Everyone seems to keep forgetting that part of this very complex issue.
Bottom line: We have a duty to help our NATO allies when asked. We've been ignoring that truth since about, oh, 1991 when we used the Kurds in Iraq during the First Gulf War.
You two make a good pair. Much like my co-worker and I. Today, we had the best idea for Trump and impeachment.
He asked me what happens to Pence, if Trump gets voted off the island, by the Senate. Trump is more than half way through his term. Pence finishes it and can be elected to two more full terms. Then, I had an idea.
Trump goes to the Senate and tells them he'll testify. He'll tell the truth, but won't cop to any crime he hasn't committed. He even tells the Senate, any time you want to stop and convict me, then do it. The bottom line is, there is too much work to be done and the government is wasting time. Vote today, then back to work."
At the end of the day, the Senate votes. Trump goads them. Trump dares them. "The fact is, you are too afraid to convict me for a non-criminal impeachment. I dare you."
The Senate is aghast. They vote. 69 to 0. 31 Present. The President is fired. As Mr. Trump walk towards the door, he says, "You know, I'm on the ballot in 50 states. And I'm running for President. Somebody tell Mike not to move out of his office, I'll be back before you can make up another phoney charge."
It's not like public scorn or condemnation ever had any effect on Trump, he rolls with the punches.
Our question is, what would specifically prevent Trump from being re-elected? And, could he be elected for two full terms?
And of course, would Hillary jump back in?
The first two questions are serious. Hillary, back in, not so much.
@Mike Why would he do it? Surprise. Surprise. Surprise.
No one expects it. He would have 10 months to engage the Democrats on every important topic. About 40 weeks till the election. He could do 3 rallies a week and not break a sweat.
Nah, it won't work. And, 50% of Fox viewers want him out. I wonder how true that is?
The Democrats are too united and with Hillary, Trump wouldn't have a chance.
"I fear the likeliest outcome is that Trump emerges from the trial stronger politically and, if it’s possible, even more shameless." -Bret
That is what all of this is about. It's Trump's Reality TV Show. February 4th is the season's finale. The drama is tense and suspenseful. The stakes and snakes are high—stay tuned on all the networks.
Next season is the battle to win the POTUS primary survivor nominations for Best candidate.
while Bernie is not my first choice, i love the idea of seeing the two of them square off in a debate. Bernie is fearless and relentless, and i think would make The Donald look like the feckless, entitled child that he is. Doesn't mean, of course, he'd win. A significantly large enough population of the voting public doesn't seem to care!
1
"The most memorable meeting was, of course, with Donald Trump, who couldn’t seem to answer a single question in a remotely coherent or non-narcissistic fashion. We walked out bemused and appalled and convinced he would eventually fade, which, well, tells you how much pundits really know about politics."
Don't worry, Bret. You still have to think you're smarter than Trump.
Any bipedal humanoid is smarter than Trump
"Gail, all Democrats need to do is come around on tax cuts, deregulation and a strong defense and we’ll never disagree again."
AND science vs faith - competence vs doctrine -climate science -womens rights -immigration compassion - education - education -
seperation of church and state -freddom of the press - tolerance -
taxes -inequality -the deficit - defense spending - gerrymandering -voters rights - reasonable gun - control oh my!
3
There are 279 days left before the November election.
I am counting on Schiff to keep the Impeachment Hearing going on for 280 days, so that we can be assured that Trump will get the honest Hearing and result he is entitled to.
10
Two things might brighten the Democratic progressives' day because of Trump's well-deserved impeachment:
1. If the Republicans' desperate attempt to divert the attention from President Trump's actions in the Ukraine to Joe Biden's son Hunter is all for naught. Because guess what? After the Democratic primaries, Joe Biden just might not be the Democratic Party's presidential candidate in 2020 running against Trump.
2. And what if the 2020 Democratic presidential candidate turns out to be Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren!
Ha! All this bogus Republican smear campaign against Joe Biden just wasted hot air.
Plus, the very encouraging thought of a progressive president addressing climate change, rising economic inequality, health care for all, etc.--thereby leaving the Dark Ages Trump Republicans in the dust bin of history, as the country moves forward not backward.
Yes, Republicans, make our day this way!
7
What I love about this column is the fact that these two people on opposite sides, both of whom I disagree with on several issues, have such a great rapport. It's fun to watch them dislike Trump for different reasons all the while wishing for different utopias. It reminds me of what politics was like before the mean spirited-ness of the post-Tea Party/Trump era.
13
"But the polls seem pretty evenly divided and haven’t yet factored in his defense."
The polls might change if Trump supporters knew what was in store for them in Trump land 2020.
President Donald Trump’s 2020 budget proposal includes $25 billion in cuts to Social Security over the next 10 years.
10
It seems clear that the president could literally murder someone and his base of supporters and the GOP would scramble to defend him. Even if he loses the 2020 election, he won’t leave. Denuded of the power of impeachment, The House of Representatives will be completely defanged and Trump essentially becomes America’s first dictator. To the utter glee of millions of FoxNews watching Americans. Of historical note, the NSDAP were also democratically elected and, before they effectively abolished their legislative branch, they too were helped along by establishment conservatives who thought they could control the demagogue as he tore through the system. We know how that story ended, how will this one end?
11
It's exactly what I was thinking the entire time, those years. The thing I remembered mostly from my German history lessons was that Hitler was regarded by the conservative Zentrum Party as a joker who could be controlled easily. Well, it turned out differently... The core difference, Trump doesn't go all in on military adventures yet. Still, we Europeans can smell the raising fashistoid troubles, and there is no hope from the conservative movement coming to their senses!
1
Truth matters.
So if Republicans make such poor role models for our children, then why elect them?
When things matter, sometimes being a condescending Republican just isn’t enough.
10
Our President shouldn’t feel hurt.
Not everybody detested Nixon either.
5
Great Pepsi vs. Coke metaphor! In blind taste tests, people prefer the taste of Pepsi. fMRI studies suggest that in blind tests, Pepsi more often lights up a part of the brain that evaluates flavor. It just tastes better. But when subjects know they're drinking Coke, the part of the brain that lights up more is associated with affiliation. Coke makes us feel as if we belong.
So, I agree that Warren is the candidate for those who prefer substance and Bernie is the candidate for those who want to join the crowd. Yes, and in elections, the crowd (usually) decides the winner.
Hmmm. Wonder what a blind test of the respective candidates policies and accomplishments would reveal?
3
Bret. we have had all the tax breaks and deregulation to last until the end time, which will get here pretty soon if we continue to think only of tax breaks and deregulation.
Also, we have world's strongest military, in spite of all the waste, corruption, and people like you pretending that it just isn't so.
The Democratic Party does not need people from the republican party, who failed to keep their own party in line with democratic principles and economic common sense, telling us how to govern.
16
I have long wondered if tax cuts are always such a wonderful thing and produce superlative economic benefits, why not eliminate all taxes whatsoever? Under the theory of reduced taxes wouldn’t we have a booming and perfect society/economy after that?
 Legitimate question by the way.
3
"all Democrats need to do is come around on tax cuts, deregulation and a strong defense and we’ll never disagree again."
Translation: tax cuts -- let the rich get even richer at the expense of the public coffers.
Deregulation -- let corporations get richer at the expense of clean air and water along with public safety.
Strong defense: Make the defense industry ever richer at the expense of a myriad of other programs that could make much better use of the money.
Where am I wrong, Bret?
16
At least Trump and his allies have learned how to run a Soviet-style show trial.
14
Please no to Bernie. We really don't deserve to have that poor a choice: Trump or Bernie. All the nasty Bernie Bros on the internet and the racist Trump incels could almost be the same group.
I hope Amy surprises them in Iowa.
16
This side would look brighter if every govt agency, every university, every genius with a hard drive were focusing on preventing Russia, Iran, China, antisemites, white supremecists, and every nutcase from interfering with our elections. We should have a Nobel for safeguarding democracy....
9
Oh, Gail, trying to figure out the heart and mind of Susan Collins? It's simple. She's Mitch's gal 100% but tries to convince her constituents up here in snowy Maine that she can do a snow job on us. Sorry you have to feel our pain.
19
Let's not forget that Eric Idle was hanging from the cross as he sang Always Look On The Bright Side of Life. Is there a metaphor for our lives here?
9
Call General Kelly to testify under oath!
Most folks respect him, and believe him a whole lot.
Besides—he would never—EVER—lie under oath.
And he even served his country as a patriot too.
7
Touting any Dem candidate is trying to put lipstick on a pig. The biggest problem the Dems have is a truly viable nominee.
Watching the impeachment trial unfold is about as exciting as the 1940 NFL championship game where the final score was Bears 71, Redskins 0. Although there were interesting firsts, or rather 'lasts'. Dick Plasmin who scored 7 touchdowns as wide receiver was the last player allowed to play without a helmet. He was granted this exception because he had damaged his skull sometime earlier in his career running into a solid wall not very far beyond the goal posts.
2
A Biden/Klobuchar ticket is a freight train to the White House.
5
It does not matter if Trump put the screws on Ukraine to investigate corruption in Ukraine with emphasis on the Bidens. That is not justification for removal from office. If using incentives/disincentives to encourage or discourage behavior of others, both foreign and domestic, were a crime or basis for removal from office, then every president since numero uno should have been back in the private sector.
Because the Obama administration took no public action against Biden and his idiot son but did force out the prosecutor who was looking at Burisma, does not mean that there was no corruption. Multiple independent sources raised questions that were never publicly addressed because the Obama administration put the squash on it. And their lackeys in the press went along with it.
So Biden does not get a pass on corruption. Therefore Trump and his Republican supporters can say that even if it is found that he pressured Ukraine, it was arguably for investigation of corruption. Home free. Sorry all you hand-wrongers (no typo).
@edward smith Using the power of government to help citizens and further America’s interest is expected. Using the power of government to hurt your personal enemies and carry out revenge (against Biden, Amazon, or the state of California) is impeachable.
13
These charade "conversations" from on high between these two professionals of so exquisite condescension are always amusing. It's no wonder most real people think and do the exact opposite of what pundits and the paper of record for the DNC recommend.
In these times when half the people in the US approaching retirement have zero savings. When people with families cannot afford the premiums and co-pays of medical insurance. When young people are crushed by student debt. When the current minimum wage only covers rent and nothing else. When all this injustice and inequality is destroying the lives of everyone who isn't rich, these two pundits waste our time with their penthouse chatter.
Stephens did say something honest: "Tells you how much pundits really know about politics."
Bernie 2020!
3
I love it when Gail and Bret get cute while the country is burning. At least they aren't playing violins. The Republican senate impeachment trial is - by any measure - a disgraceful moment in American history, and we get stand-up from two people who either know better or are so far removed and comfortable that they really don't care about what has happened to this country in the last 3 years.
7
Eric Holder would be a terrible choice for VP. In the Justice Department, he and his oleaginous assistant Lanny Breuer failed to jail a single Wall Street exec for the meltdown of 2008. Along with Obama, who was equally obsequious to his billionaire buddies, they helped give us Trump. It should be recalled that Holder and Breuer came from the firm of Covington, whose job it is to defend white collar criminals, and when they left government, they returned right back to their old offices. Should Biden, who already faces charges of being too beholden to corporate America, be explicitly seeking a person of color to round out the ticket, is Holder really who you want?
5
Fight fire with fire. Fight cartoon with cartoon. I'm sorry -- but that's going to be how more mainstream folks will see it.
1
If you hadn't shoved Hilary down our throats in 2016, it would have been Sanders v. Trump, and (according to polls) Sanders was the only person who could have beat Trump then.
5
@Karen according to polls, Hillary also beat Trump.
Just realized that Mayor Pete will become the Harold Stassen of the 21st Century.
To bring these two burning political topics together, consider Senator Joni Ernst‘s comment that the impeachment proceedings could hurt Joe Biden’s showing in Iowa. Consider the numerous Republican senators who are demanding that the Bidens testify. It’s not much of a stretch to say that the Republican Senate is doing — for free! — the dirty work that Trump tried and failed to get the Ukraine to do.
5
Bret, the reason you don’t like Warren is pure sexism. If she is virtually the same as Sanders then what’s the problem or the difference for you ?...her sex, that’s what.
And also I suspect because she was once a staunch Republican, a turn coat in your eyes, who saw the light and switched parties in defense of polices that protect the working people of America, of whom the Republican Party at the highest echelons seem to have pure contempt for, except for their votes. By doing so she has exposed your party for what it is.
5
What an analogy: American democracy with a deadly virus in China!
After the IOWA noise is mercifully over ... Bernie's Campaign reverts to spoiling a real Democrat's run to beat Trump.
3
No one who has been paying attention Bret Stephens’ lobbying for all things Republican is ignorant enough to buy his fake never-Trumper act. His fondest wish is or another four years of his favorite President in office.
From his use of false equivalence between Democrats and Republicans, a common Party tactic, to extreme distortions of Democrats’ actions, Bret follows the RNC-Fox-Kremlin disinformation playbook. Democrats excused Clinton’s consensual sex with a fellow adult because he was otherwise a decent person and good president. There is zero comparison to be made with Republicans not only not condemning a career criminal, bragging sexual assaulter, serial adulterer in all three of his marriages, and cheap con man who has cheated investors, banks, taxpayers and gullible individuals out of billions of dollars, but happily embracing him, celebrating his actions and elevating him to the Presidency with the help of a foreign enemy.
Democrats were aghast at Trump’s withdrawal of troops from Syria and abandonment of our Kurdish allies to slaughter at the hands of Russia, Turkey and Bashar al Assad because we saw he as doing it to please Putin.
As for Brets’ slap at Democrats for hewing to the founders’ intent on impeachment as meaning they are flipping to the Republicans’ way of thinking, again, no informed citizen has ever seen Republicans do more than pay the founders and the Constitution lip service.
5
The only bright side I can actually (credibly) envision is this:
After the GOP completes the sale of their souls by voting in favor of Trump’s “perfect call,” he immediately acts in ways sooo outrageous even some of the MAGA hats notice.
Consequently, the Democrats take the Senate in November!!
3
Bret for the win with his brilliant hyphenation extravaganza (and hat tip to Gail for coining that phrase).
Trump will go to his grave believing he was "the best President ever."
3
I'm thinking that the greatest contribution Michael Bloomberg could make to this upcoming election and to our nation would be for him (together with Tom Steyer?) to buy FOX News.
12
Trump Enablers say impeachment is to get our elected leader out of office.
But no matter what they say—though—wasn’t elected to do what he did in Ukraine, damage our national security and credibility in the world, and say he’s perfect do the same to cheat and deceive us about the 2020 election.
Anyone else would be fired from any other job for doing 1/100th of that.
So: YOU’RE FIRED!
5
Gail; first, I appreciate your ongoing efforts to bring some levity and fun into what is a dreary and grey time: Mr. Blowhard actually sucks, and none of the fun mirrors in the fun hall of democracy are working.
You shared this line this morning with your readers:
"It is pretty amazing how the evangelicals have managed to ignore all the Trump morality messes."
Two things about this line; 1st, Christians who exemplify 'salt of the earth' characteristics, who are humble and believe that the least among us are the most worthy of time and attention, are nearly extinct. We have mega-churches creating mega opportunities for wealth creation, not celebrating God's creation.
2nd, and I think that this is more to the point, the reason why evangelicals haven't budged from Trump, supporting a porn star loving, women hating bully and narcissist, is because he is the most likely person in this country to bring the apocalypse, and the rapture.
1
This column is such a highlight.
Dems, Trump v Bernie is guaranteed to lead to a trump victory. And that sounds as bad a coronavirus spreading like wildfire.
Please don’t throw mike out with the bathwater: we need a moderate, any really, for the win. It’s amazing how Dems manage to screw up a sure thing.
1
"Oh yeah, the economy. Getting sort of tired of trying to take comfort from the stock market." Let's not confuse ourselves. The stock market is not the economy; it's only one segment of it. The stock market is being propped up by unusually low interest rates, putting the long term economy in trouble. When we have a recession, we will have little room to work with. Meanwhile, lots of families are managing mostly by taking several part time jobs without benefits. Those are the jobs that will be the first to go in a bad economy.
4
I was starting to think Bret Stephens isn't so bad after all when I read his last line about tax cuts, deregulation, and a stronger military (that would be paid by what, exactly, after all those tax cuts?). It seems he favors a black hole of perpetual debt.
8
Sanders could possibly win the popular vote but never the electoral vote--the midwest and south aren't Bernie fans. Give us Biden with Harris/Klobuchar or Warren/Booker.
7
I like the two of you. Keep it up!
1
The Senate Trial has become a whole new level of drug deal thanks to Bolton and Parnas. They must call witnesses and admit evidence.
Impeachment may need to be forever, or at least until Trump is out of office.
5
Instead of calling on the Senate to call on Bolton to testify — and precarious plan —- why not call on him to simply issue a statement about what he knows?
The president voided executive privilege claims when he made public comments (tweets) about the details of their conversation.
So there’s nothing holding Bolton back, except maybe a desire for profit? But if that’s the case, we should publicly ask: what kind of patriot holds a country hostage to protect a book deal?
1
Always a great read, but I think you missed a trick. The momentous political event of the past week was not the trial in the Senate, where the outcome is foreordained, but just up the road at the March for Life rally, with Trump making a personal appearance. The modern GOP is pretty much a single-issue party, when it comes to rallying the troops come election time (appeals to the donor class are a different story).
How did we get here? I think the story goes like this...
Back in the late sixties, the anti-war left started to view the flag-waving right not as well-meaning-but-misguided fellow citizens, but as irredeemably evil baby-killers. Around the same time, the fight over abortion bred very similar resentments on the part of conservatives. Naturally, liberal passions cooled with the end of the conflict in Vietman, but the right has had no such closure - hence, the asymmetric political warfare we see today. The typical heartland evangelical voter is force-fed the view that they have to choose between a Republican, however flawed, and the devil himself. With so little to show for his 3+ years in office, the ever-cunning, ever-cynical Trump will bang the pro-life drum non-stop until Election Day...and probably, I fear, win.
1
Gail, why so dismissive of the Bloomberg campaign? Especially if Sanders is in the lead out of the first primaries?
3
Bret-regarding your comment about Joe Biden - that all he offers is experience and character-well experience and especially character are just what this country needs in a president. Progressive policies and programs can be developed, but one can’t be taught how to be a“mensch” - a good person with a compassionate heart. Joe Biden is a mensch!
15
America has survived calamities for almost a quarter of a millennium. We will survive Trump. This too shall pass. We will endure, because Americans know how to fight. And we will never give up.
There is wisdom in the crowd, and it will strike back with a vengeance come November.
I can feel it viscerally now.
I know it in my heart.
9
@Blue Moon America may survive Trump, but survival of individual Americans will be hurt for decades...due to rising suicide rates, fewer people with health insurance, dirtier air and water, more guns on the streets, more junk food in our diets, more greenhouse gasses in our atmosphere, etc.
7
History will not be kind to Donald Trump, and it shouldn't be. But I wonder how it will treat his supporters including the 53 GOP Senators who are tethered to him, rot and all? It certainly won't congratulate them for their independence and upholding the rule of law. Depending upon the thoughts of the scholars who will record the history, the story will have to include the unwillingness of the GOP Senators to hear all of the evidence, and acquit Trump soley along party lines while ignoring the facts. Something their grandchildren can read about in their American history classes.
12
When it comes to the current Senate Republicans, it appears that 80 is the new 5, and 60 is the new 2. Ever since the Kavanaugh hearings, it's been obvious that these little boys and girls need a good nanny...one who's a strict disciplinarian.
7
Amy Klobuchar?
"Elizabeth Warren’s flaw is that she’s Pepsi to Sanders’s Coke — the same stuff, more or less, but not quite as authentic".
C'mon Bret, you can do better than that. We all know you are not a fan of Liz, but she is as authentic as any of the other candidates, and in my mind, more so. She is also more open minded than Bernie and has shown better abilities to work with others, which is a very important trait for POTUS.
10
Dems expend too much energy protesting the rules of the game. In the election, it’s how we choose. In impeachment, it’s withheld evidence.
There’s plenty of evidence against Trump. And the same candidates would lead whatever the rules. It’s a mistake to elevate process over substance. Impeachment is about the known evidence.. And a spin strategy is paramount. The election is about picking a winner and getting behind them.
The more you talk about Bolton, the more you communicate that there isn’t enough evidence. The more you talk about Iowa, the more you undermine the legitimacy of the nominee.
Focusing on how it’s done is pessimistic. Optimists take what they have and take it to the bank.
1
This didnt cheer me up much. On to the Arts section.
4
The outcome of the impeachment isn't going to be decided by polls - it's a *representative* democracy. As even ardent Enlightenment philosophes realized, the average citoyen is too stupid to be given too much power.
If he’s picking up cues from his audiences then I guess Trump’s next executive order will ban low flow toilets and showers.
6
Best Monty Python parody headline ever!
< Trump's lawyers will be singing and whistling that song while hanging from chains in the dungeon soon >
Impeachment is a brighter and better alternative than a military coup or a civil insurrection or a civil war or a Mike Pence presidency or the John Wilkes Booth or Lee Harvey Oswald 'solution'?
Seriously?
No wonder Benjamin Netanyahu, Vladimir Putin and Mohammed bin Salman are smugly smiling and smirking at the antics of their mutual pawn pet puppet Tel Aviv, Moscow and Riyadh Donald John Trump, Sr. in making them and their nations great again.
6
Come on Gail, pay attention. Not for one second, even in the depths of the muscle that pumps his vile blood, will Trump ever think he was a bad president. His blind righteous indignation know no such bounds. The Martyr-in-Chief had been wrongly accused and ruthlessly persecuted. To him, he was the “perfect” president.
Demagogic delusion 101, Gail. Please keep up.
7
Tax cuts and deregulation is something we DON'T need with a ballooning deficit and a planet on fire...so let's hope the Democrats never come around to Bret's view on those things.
Both Trump and Bernie get their support and impassioned (brainwashed) supporters from constant rallies. Aldous Huxley wrote a great essay in the epilogue of one of his books about the inherent danger of group think and psychology under the thrall of demagoguery...both Trump and Sanders are saying what their rally attendees want to hear, and the practical application of their "ideas" and "policies" are not necessarily possible or a good thing even though they are polar opposites. I take issue with frequent large scale rallies. This is how Hitler convinced Germany to take a dark and murderous path.
3
One for one... Bolton and Hunter. Let's see who embarrasses whom more.
This comment is, of course, my opinion.
Stephens, you put words together but out here it comes off as "pseudo-intellectual-semi-clever-had-two-drinks-gotchas".
Like you fly higher than everyone else in your rarified space.
I don't know how you keep your job.
You are boring. You are, dude.
Your conversations with Gail are as interesting as room temp pizza.
You state the obvious, as I am doing now, except I don't get paid for it.
I'd be looking over my shoulder for the bright young writer who's willing to work for way less.
Worshipping one's own intellect makes a lousy higher power. I know.
I'm coming off a wake up call of my own and though necessary, it ain't pretty.
2
When the Republicans flipped they flipped into the everlasting arms of the evangelical grifters like Paula White, Creflo Dollar and Kenneth Copeland, they made a deal with the devil. It helped them in key electoral college states. These grifters put a pious face on hypocrisy and swallow all swill that Trump dishes out. They will tell you that with a strait face that Donald Trump is the 'chosen one'...and he likely believes it more than they do because it strokes his ego and he, in turn, strokes their pocket books. White offers tickets to heaven for only $1444 dollars and other perks from her office in the White House where she claims 'everywhere I walk is Holy Ground'. Holy Hypocrisy, Batman!! They're selling dispensation from sin right out of the White House just like in the good old days of the Middle Ages when kings were ordained by God to torture anyone suspected of being an unbeliever.
That's why Republican Senators are running scared. The Inquisition is alive and well in Trump's theocracy.
10
I believe Gail is wrong. Trump will go down in history believing he was a great president. And his base will go down in history believing he was a bright, shining hero besmirched by commies.
6
@The Pessimistic Shrink
Agreed. But how will they explain to their grandchildren why their history textbooks say otherwise?
2
I write this not as a partisan Democrat who voted for Bill Clinton (though still thought perjury impeachable) but as someone incredulous that you think there is some "switcheroo" in attitudes about "moral character and sexual propriety". Are you seriously comparing a consensual affair with serial sexual assault, sneaking into the dressing room of teenagers, lauding Epstein for his fondness of young girls, and violating the law to cover up an affair with a porn star?
12
The Bright Side ?
Kabuki Theatre for the unwashed and uneducated. Predetermined, preordained and predigested.
NOVEMBER.
6
Well Nancy Pelosi said impeachment is forever. If that isn’t a bright side I don’t know what is.
273
@Vivien ....And whether or not Bolton gets called as a witness, what he has to say will be revealed to the public before the fall election. Senators who are up for reelection and vote against having him testify may be damaged goods, not to mention what it might do to Trump.
28
@Vivien
Especially its implication that there will never be a Donald Trump Airport, Trump Dam, Trump Space Center, Fort Trump, USS Donald Trump, or a Forever Orange Trump postage stamp.
10
@Vivien
It's so tempting to want to see Don Trump get his comeuppance. A bullies reward. Our real goal though is to understand, make sense of, and move forward to a sensible ethical government that works for all of us.
I am tired of the drama of these bullies. No one is winning in this Fox Trump prime time TV Show.
But don't lose sight of the real goal and our need to dig out of the Trumpian deficit, diplomacy and environmental mess before it gets worse.
Keep in mind Trump's drug is a daily narcissistic drama.
It continues as long as we watch it. Stop and he will melt.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/201606/bullys-brain-perceives-subordinating-others-reward
7
"And even he knows, deep down in his little bitty heart, that he’s going to go down in history as a terrible president." Gail, you've given DJT credit for an organ he does not possess.
Otherwise, excellent column/dialog, one I especially appreciate as I now get all news via print: can't tolerate voice/sight of Trump, McConnell et al. Immediate nausea and unease.The light approach to horror helps too. Thank you.
2
The Bernie Bros are the Libertarians of the Left. Mostly Young, supremely self-centered and insufferable know it alls, without the actual life experience to back it up.
Start your own Party, instead of using and abusing Mine.
Seriously.
12
“Tax cuts and deregulation” are responsible for so much of our country's ills, Mr. Stephens. Let's hope we get a president who tackles some of the corporate welfare and bad behavior running amok out there that Trump has enabled.
5
Please, no Bernie, no Elizabeth. I don’t want to be holding my nose yet again while checking ‘democrat’.
9
Ok Bret, that was the greatest hyphenation run I've ever seen. Kudos.
2
We already are seeing the effects of the most insipid, just-plain-dumb "deregulation" antics that the equally insipid Trump administration is forcing upon us. Mr. Stephens is completely two-faced, in his oh-so-superior-look-at-me-hyphenated-Republican-who-hates-trump attitude, but then supports the same destructive policies that deregulation acts impose. Corporate exec's get rich, employees stagnate, the public loses, and the republic suffers...all from this type of bloviation that Mr. Stephens represents, shape-shifting at its worst.
2
Bret still doesn't understand what #MeToo is about. It's not a matter of a consensual sexual affair, like Gary Hart and Donna Rice, or even Trump and Stormy Daniels. It's about harassment and assault, unwanted, power-driven exploitation of (mostly) lower status women by higher status men. Trump is plenty guilty in that realm too, but not with Stormy.
Speaking of her, the unspeakable defense of Trump's one-night stand with a porn star -- that it's surely what many of his male supporters dream of. They aren't excusing or ignoring, they are admiring that he got to have sex with a porn star. They wish it were them, but if they have no shot, they can at least fantasize through the means of their president.
3
Breezily dissing the Electoral College when you're the one who should know better... giving Warren credit for her "plans" without noting they don't add up... give Warren a pass for her failures because of "underlying sexism"...
C'mon, Bret.
In these times I'm gratified to hear from an anti-Tump conservative. Even from an anti-Republican conservative. But your growing role as an anti-conservative conservative really unmasks the Times' approach to "balance" on these pages.
I did not think partisan impeachment (imp) with bipartisan opposition which is nothing but a political power struggle has any bright side. But let me play along and try to put my mind to it. Certainly it was very enlightening to hear from legendary law scholars like Ken Starr, Alan Dershowitz, Jonathan Turley about constitutional and historic angles of imp. Imp also was better drama than Hollywood movies. Previously unknown to me US congresspersons like Elise Stephanik of NY, Jim Jordan of Ohio, Collins of Georgia, Gaetz of Florida got an opportunity to dazzles.
The impact of the imp on the Dem presidential nomination for 2020 will be profound by the time it is all said and done. Yesterday was a horrible day for Biden. Those who were sitting on the fence about Biden's conflicts of interest which was considered debunked by his establishment supporters was dug out very coherently and superbly by Attorney Pam Bondi of Florida. The biggest beneficiaries of demolishing Bidens were the front runners senators Bernie, Warren Klobuchar and mayor Butti. It is time Biden folds up instead of taking a page out of the Clinton book and deny deny deny that he did anything legally wrong or unethical. After yesterday's Bondi beating of Biden like a drug, there is no need to bring Bolten as the Democrats would want and Bidens as the Republicans would want as a witness and that will be historically the brightest side of the imp. As far as what other difference imp will unfold, wait and see
1
Later Guru Girish, later.
I have voted Democrat for President since 1992. I will not vote for Bernie Sanders and I'm not alone.
4
Ms. Collins is right in saying Trump will need more than his base to get re-elected. It's also true that Sanders will need more than a fired-up base of angry millennials. Should Sanders win the Democratic nomination, he'd be the one candidate who could deliver the election to Trump, on a silver platter. Should he actually get elected, he'd be about as effective as he's been as a Senator.
7
Yes, always look at the bright side of impeachment:
It is engaging Trump's base and pulling in independents like me who are sympathetic to him due to the partisan and unworthy attacks on his presidency. This is his fast track to re-election.
It's disheartening that Mike Bloomberg is being categorically dismissed by. He may be the only candidate that can gather the silent majority of voters who sufficiently disdain Trump but don't want to follow Bernie and his lemmings off a social welfare cliff.
4
Oh you two! So refreshing in this time of tailbitingtrumpism. Thanks for making me laugh, even as my teeth are gnashing and my brain has turned to pudding.
1
The entire Trump impeachment caper is like the reality TV show The Apprentice which he developed and had the last word. He was the center of attention, which he loves, and controlled the entire narrative. Now we are living the same show where he controls the statements made by all republican senators. Anyone stepping out of line he makes sure they pay the price. How can any of these people sleep at night defending a criminal mob boss!
7
Well a couple things. Bloomberg isn't going to run ads for anyone. He's going to run ads beating Trump to a pulp and letting the Democratic nominee run positive ads about her or him self. As to the analogy to a woman dating Trump or Sanders: the difference here is this will be like going to the movies on a date. With Bernie all you get is a small buttered popcorn, but you get grease all over your hand, but you get to watch the movie. With Trump, you get a big bucket of popcorn and when you get further down into the bucket, all of a sudden you discover there's something else in the bucket. And you look over at Trump and he's got this creepy smile on his face. And, even though this is an Oscar winning movie you really wanted to see, you are too distracted to enjoy it. . And when he calls to invite you to go again, you say 'No, Thanks". And then he tells all your friends you are a terrible person. They are not interested in your version of what happened. Because he always buys the big bucket of popcorn.
8
“But one of the many downsides of the Senate trial is the amount of time people are having to spend contemplating the heart and mind of Susan Collins.”
What’s to contemplate?
Susan Collins is a political strip tease artist. The act begins with the furrowed brow and the expressions of concern meant to lead the audience to believe that she might do the right thing. And, then, at the last minute.......the reliable party line vote.
8
An overwhelming majority of us Democrats believe that Donald Trump is the worst president in American history. If there is an aspect of character, morality and intellect which determines what makes a really bad president, you can attach the adjective “most” to that derogatory term.
This conversation between Gail Collins and Bret Stephens, both of whom would probably agree with anything negative said about Donald Trump, is very depressing for its pessimism about getting Trump out of the White House.
At the risk of sounding like a sexist, body-shaming bully like Trump, let us remember that it’s not over until the fat lady sings.
3
"It seems appropriate that a political process ending with a vote by the Electoral College begins with the Iowa caucuses. Just to be sure nobody ever gets the impression this is just about the will of the people."
We, the stupid American people, get the candidates (and governance) we deserve. There's no reason primary voters in every state have to be sheep and follow Iowa's lead. Like many other things--I just saw the Richard Jewell movie--the media doesn't help by cheerleading a rush to judgment.
6
Gail, maybe you're right about the lack of gossip by Democratic candidates...they're all old. But don't forget the younger ones are mostly women.
2
Watching very early TV this morning one would have thought it was a SNL episode. Ms. Bondi from FL ( her tainted past was explained ) was carrying on and on about Hunter Biden as if he were running for President. A crawler on Morning Joe read,
"Confederacy of dunces defends trump". Now with Bolton's revelations about to come forth, impeachment cannot be far behind.
2
Bernie’s supporters are like the mean girls in middle school who will spoil the election if they don’t get their way.
7
"Just stop me when I revert to ALL CAPS."
And please, no fragmentary sentences unless you absolutely have to get it out of your system maybe just this once.
1
Ah what a brilliant laugh you gave me this morning. Thank you.
1
It's impossible to know if the "responsible" GOPers in the US Senate lack the requisite body parts to stand on even the tiniest shred of principle or if they simply have no principles at all.
Meanwhile, the Democrats thrash aimlessly in political quicksand doing what they do best: making themselves unelectable to a voting swath large enough actually to win an election.
Perhaps the two major parties should launch a bipartisan effort to produce a new television series. Call it "The Biggest Loser," with top prize going to the American voting public.
3
I can hear a Monty Python tune just reading the headline and I'm already twerking in my chair.
2
You’re forgetting one Emmy-winning moment. Ken Starr — Kenneth F Starr! — playing down any impeachable offenses.
But in my mind, although I’m appalled by Trump everyday, his policies — whatever they may be — scare me less than Bernie’s.
If it comes down to the two of them, I’d have to grab my smelling salts and vote for Trump.
15
@David G I wish I though you were being facetious. Sanders is about as radical as FDR. Trump really is veering toward a dictatorship. And the current market bubble is going to pop--guys buying and selling their own stocks to each other back and forth and back and forth, this is going to end worse than 2008.
114
Extremely unfortunate, that like so many other conservative voters, you would overlook Trump’s appalling behaviors and vote for him over Sanders, just because he is a Republican. Sander’s views are far left - can’t imagine that there wouldn’t be a whole lot of compromise in his positions if he were actually elected. At what point do conservative voters actually stand up for their own purported values?
84
You should care about democracy more than your wallet - and anyway Bernie won’t be able to accomplish anything with McConnell leading the senate so no need to vote for trump.
83
Is it possible there is a palace revolution in the works? Bolton dumps Trump by getting him impeached, which he sorely deserves. There is time for a Republican candidate (Bolton?) to salvage the party. The Republicans cannot possibly be happy with the likely prospect of four more years of Trump.
My God, people! The House IMPEACHED Trump ALREADY and FOREVER in all future history books. The trial is about convicting him and REMOVING from office.
3
I would second Bret's nod to Eric Holder as the VP choice for ANY of the candidates. He would destroy Pence in debate and be a strong intellectual base for a possible Biden/Holder ticket. As for Sanders, I love seeing him around serving as a moral force for social decency, but as a serious Presidential prospect, he'd spend his term tilting at windmills.
3
This an excellent political analysis disguised as comedy. Thank you Gail and Bret!
As our great-reality-show-president-in-chief would say, "we'll see what happens".
Sadly, the NY Times mostly ignored the excellent presentation by Alan Dershowitz before the Senate yesterday.
Dershowitz argued that even if Trump is a terrible president, the grounds of "abuse of power" and "obstruction of Congress" are too vague to serve as viable grounds for impeachment.
Dershowitz argued that many presidents, including Washington, Lincoln and Obama had been accused of abuse of power. On the other hand, the separation of powers written into the constitution made it inevitable that there would be conflicts between the executive and Congress, undercutting "obstruction of Congress."
Impeaching Trump for such broad reasons would be a bad precedent, making it likely that impeachment would be used more frequently in the future to undo elections.
Not only that, but Democrats should be thinking of the consequences of fighting so hard for a conviction that will almost certainly fail.
Yes, they may force consideration of Bolton as a witness. But if they succeed, it is likely that Hunter Biden will be called.
That means that between now and Nov 3 the Republicans will be providing us with video footage of Hunter Biden's defense in front to the Senate.
How will Hunter Biden explain his taking a job with an Ukrainian energy company for $60K a month?
Perhaps, "I simply didn't understand that the energy company was hiring me because I might cause my father to go easy on the company's corruption?"
Continuing on this path may destroy Joe Biden's viability.
@Blaise Descartes
Abuse of power and obstruction of Congress are “too vague?” No, they aren't. Dershowitz merely engages in the same gaslighting as the rest of the complicit GOP. While conviction will most certainly fail, it's important to hold Trump accountable for his repeated misconduct — impeachment is the congressional remedy for presidential abuses, Congress has a job to do — at least Democrats understand that and are upholding their oaths.
5
"Not sure the impact is going to be all that great for Trump politically — he needs more than the base to get re-elected."
And he has them in people like Bret Stephens, who claim to believe that some Democrats would be worse than Trump and would vote for neither.
2
So the takeaway from this is that the president will walk away “cleared” of any charges and even more emboldened than before(if that’s humanly possible)? Then we’ll have two angry old men yelling at each other until November? One who would actually try to do something meaningful for the citizens of the country, and the other who only cares about his numbers. How did we get to this low ebb in our society? Maybe if we weren’t so concerned about what’s streaming or what the “influencers” have to say, we might realize that we’re in a boatload of trouble and the stock market is only paying out to those who can really afford to play it. Are we so uneducated that we don’t understand what we read or see?
2
At one time, Gail Collins was funny, and her attempts to find common ground with Bret Stephens were admirable. I don’t find her funny any more. Bret Stephens clearly does not understand the threat Trump poses to our country, as proven by his recent assertion that he would not vote for Sanders if he were the Democratic nominee. Apparently, he sees Sanders’ socialist ideas to be as much of a threat as Trump’s authoritarian proclivities. And Collins seems to think that Trump is more of a joke than a clear and present danger. “Battle of the Bad Dates.” Ha ha, very funny, Gail.
2
What an absolute pleasure this was to read! Thank you! These columns of Gail and Bret intelligently sparring with each other make my day and hearten my confidence that we we Americans can disagree while still working to maintain our democracy. And kudos to Bret, for hearing what some of us were saying in our comments on your column, about Warren, that her intelligence and acuity seemed to be getting less praise than deserved because of potential implicit bias around being a female candidate.
1
Bernie vs. Trump, the BQE Battle! I'd say the Subway Series, but only the G train goes from Brooklyn to Queens!
31
@me
Thank you.
1
@me
Sure, but what do you have against the G train? (Which I think I have never been on. I'm more of an IRT/ACD guy.)
Some things in life are bad,
They can really make you mad.
Other things just make you swear and curse.
When you're chewing on life's gristle,
Don't grumble, give a whistle!
And this'll help things turn out for the best
And
Always look on the bright side of life!
Always look on the bright side of life
If life seems jolly rotten,
There's something you've forgotten!
And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing,
When you're feeling in the dumps,
Don't be silly chumps,
Just purse your lips and whistle -- that's the thing!
1
Gail kibbitzes about her "lots of friends who will rant about Trump’s extramarital affairs and grabby little hands. But they’d happily overlook infidelity in their favorite Democratic candidates."
Gail, please go back to Bret's hyphenation rampage about The Donald and Stormy, (I declare in profound appreciation and respect).
There is zero moral equivalence between the two. Moreover, although I have no call to presume anything about Gail's friends, I do not recall Bill Clinton's execrable behavior having been "overlooked," then or now.
5
“ I fear the likeliest outcome is that Trump emerges from the trial stronger politically and, if it’s possible, even more shameless.”
So do I. And it’s already happening.
4
Reading this exchange between two writers, I am still amazed that they both didn’t voice their opinions about Trump much earlier. Or did I miss something?
I’m a huge fan of Gail’s and a lukewarm fan of Bret’s—sometimes he’s an MVP catcher and sometimes he’s way out in right field (never left). But you both get it totally wrong on the sex-scandal issue. There’s no comparison—NONE!—between Gary Hart’s and Bill Clinton’s *consensual* sexual dalliances and Trump’s (among many others) sexual assaults. Can I make it any clearer? One is sex, the other is a federal crime.
If Democrats and Republicans have switched roles on the issue of sex and politics, it’s because Democrats understand and embrace the difference between sex and criminal behavior, while Republicans still can’t see the distinction.
5
Kind of a generic conversation. I guess everything that has to be said has been said. Trump is a strong candidate. In your face kind of guy. Only that type of person can bet him. But be intelligent about it. Who is that democrat?
Dems who even have a hint of sexual scandal such as Al Franken have been driven from politics (and I'm a "never Amy Klobuchar" because she didn't have the guts to stand up and say her Minnesota colleague was entitled to an actual investigation of questionable accusations) so Ms. Collins contention that Dems would be as willing to overlook sexual indiscretions as do those hypocritical evangelical Christians who somehow forgot all about morality when they fell in love with Trump is doubtful.
As to Mayor Pete, he might become our generation's Harold Stassen (look him up)
3
Like Gail, I am impressed by Bret's hyphenation extravaganza.
I think I'll get a tee-shirt with that on it. It'll go nicely with my "8645" shirt.
Otherwise, thanks for reminding us all about "looking at the bright side". I DO feel like America is being crucified......and by evangelicals of all people!
As far as the Dems, I like them all......and I would even vote for "Get-Off-My-Lawn-Kid! Bernie".
My personal Dream Team would be Joe Biden with Julia Louis-Dreyfus as Veep. I guarantee that team would get 99% of the votes in America.
But Holden or Klobuchar as Veep would be fine too.
2
Tax cuts and deregulation. How about a 3-way column/debate on the subjects. Include Dr. Paul Krugman with Ms Collins and Mr Stephens.
1
@GSS Nice idea, but don't think it would work. You'd have to make Mr. Stephens agree that there are pesky little things called "facts," "precedence," and "evidence." His pet economic ideas have been disproved Kudlow-style for decades, yet still he persists in ignorance.
1
I join a comment below about this format of a supposed conversation.
May be a good format - in a podcast.
But in a written transcript - it loses authenticity
And to be honest - I forget what the previous para had.
He's my absolute last choice for the primary, but I will gladly vote for Bernie (or any person, dog, or plant) in the general as long as they aren't trump.
8
I don’t quite believe Stephens when he says he’s all in for deregulation and tax cuts galore as I’m sure that’s not how he parents his household. California’s primary is in March. Let’s hope it quashes the Bernie Breaux brain-eating zombie horde approaching the dinner party (breaux!)
1
If only this were a Monty Python flick where we could sing its version of the kumbaya melody, “Always Look On The Bright Side of Life.” I suppose there is, however, if we peek around that long dark corner on two-way narrow mountain road. The trick being that we have to maneuver it without driving off the proverbial cliff. But maybe we can, even if takes a passionate older guy or his slightly younger “brother” to guide the way. I would prefer their sister from Massachusetts, but at this point anyone will do. And to return to this sham of a Senate trial who among us was not thrilled to witness Mitch’s sour look become even more distasteful upon learning that the White House would, oh my!, cover-up once again? And who was not stunned to learn that Bolting Bolton would derail the GOP train of deception? All I can add is that even when Trump is indeed “acquitted,” our job may just be a little easier to send him packing back to one of his own Golden Arches with his French fries and cheeseburgers. Think November.
2
NH for Bernie? Say it isn't so, please.
2
Bret, how did lack of regulation of the financial sector work out for ya about a dozen years ago? Or for your stock holding in Boeing?
3
Ken Starr (1998) proved Ken Starr's (2020) legal opinion is invalid.
1998 Dershowitz told 2020 Dershowitz he needed to write a NY Times OpEd to explain himself, which was not convincing.
Hiring lawyers who've already created cases against a POTUS showing that high crimes need not be a crime.
Well that certainly backfired!
2
Once again, Bret's tiptoe trepidation feinting neverTrumpism clandestinely exposes his Trumped-upped denial undermining anything even remotely neverTrump.
And which part of a Constitution -- still haunted by its original intent on saving slavery, and hence too protective of executive privileges exclusively earned by an electorate yet redeemed from our original sin -- is giving Bret the most wet-log fire power on constantly denying the Democrats their adapting-to-change preference that all that literally matters en masse is Einstein/energized when framed in the squaring of [en]light[enment]'s speed MOVING FORWARD?
Even Darwin would agree that the extinction of dinosaurs sort of renders the Trump-like "survival of the fittest" cant too fatal (especially when higher walls still somehow miss seeing our far more ominous skies).
I don't want four more years of chaos. Not under Trump, or under Bernie. No more yelling, no more big broad stupid impractical ideas from Bernie or little tiny mean venal actions from Trump.
I don't want to roll back every improvement to our nation since Teddy Roosevelt under Trump, nor fail to recover any of them under Bernie, who doesn't seem like a consensus type of guy.
I want someone who will re-staff the government, reopen the doors to qualified people. Who will promote the idea that we don't place people who can profit from their roles into jobs.
I don't want to stall all that while the President yells about Medicare for All to a nation that cannot handle the simple idea that people ought to, at the very least afford basic care and their heart pills.
And I don't want to worry that the devolving psyche of the Toddler in Chief will push the button and launch us into some sort of war - economic or with bullets - that we cannot get out of, while the Senate, profiting during the mayhem, looks on.
Is that really too much to ask in an election year?
366
@Cathy this is such a wonderful comment. You have captured my concerns perfectly. I fear we will be overpowered by the noisier but less rational voting groups, who will drag all of us through another chaotic administration’s term. I pray wisdom will find a place again in this country before it is too late.
42
@Cathy
You are so right. I am so tired of Sanders finger pointing, yelling non-doable ideas. He is so off-the-wall on his policies that area so left of left. Independents, whose vote we need, will not vote for Sanders. Trump will be happy though.
21
@Elayne Gallagher
How is Sanders "left of left"? All he wants is more balance in the economy so the very poor, the poor, and the middle class will have a little bit more in wages, good health care, and social security, while the very rich will be very rich, but a little less so.
Congress will still be around to make the laws and approve appointments, the Supreme Court will still make judgments on legal interpretation, the military will still have unfathomable fire power.
What's to fear? (And there is plenty to fear in Trump, who is trying to undo all our institutional checks and balances, all our experienced advice, all our tried and true ways to governing this wealthy vastly powerful country of ours)
28
Polls, polls! Please remind people how wrong the polls were in 2016!
90
@George
The polls weren't really wrong. Trump was just barely within margin of error or very close to it. The problem was much of the media choosing to interpret what appeared to be an extremely close election as an easy win for Clinton.
13
@Fry, well that and the polls measure humans, not the electoral college. When the race is close, the people that turn out on a given day in a given location will be hard to predict, and you only need one vote over 50% to flip an entire state to one candidate.
8
@Leonard
Measuring the EC isn't difficult if you're breaking polls down by state. Naturally, in an election as close as 2016, the unknowable things represented by margin of error start to matter a whole lot more.
6
As for Sanders yelling, I can envision him screaming at Putin, Erdogan and a few others. Might be better at foreign policy than our deal making conservatives.
May I speak for the Democratic party? It's still "Anyone but Trump".
Perhaps we can make a deal with him. We let the stable genius off on impeachment, as long as he travels to Wuhan China and resolves the virus issue, asap!
1
The Times reported that the Bolton manuscript asserts Trump told Bolton “he preferred sending no assistance to Ukraine until officials had turned over all materials they had about the Russia investigation related to Mr. Biden and supporters of Hillary Clinton in Ukraine, referencing unfounded theories and other assertions that Rudolph W. Giuliani, his personal lawyer, had promoted about any Ukrainian efforts to damage Mr. Trump politically.”
Trump took Bolton’s advice and the advice of Vice President Mike Pence and Sen. Ron Johnson, who met with President Zelensky in Warsaw. In a letter admitted into evidence, Johnson wrote that he and Pence persuaded Trump that President Zelensky's commitment to anticorruption was legitimate. Trump ended the freeze several days later.
The Bolton “bombshell” does not bolster the House managers’ case. They allege Trump pressured Ukraine by threatening to withhold aid, not that Trump told Bolton he would prefer to continue the freeze. The Bolton revelation bolsters the case for executive privilege, whose purpose is to permit president to confidentially discuss options with their aides.
Yesterday, the defense team showed video clips of State Department officials and U.S. diplomats testifying that the Ukrainians learned about the freeze for the first time from a Politico article published August 28. Except for the Politico article, the Ukrainians never would have known there was a freeze.
@William Case: Better phone this insight in to the Trump defense team. They're looking for good arguments.
4
@Lew
They have already thought to it. During his presentation, Alan Dershowitz took time out from his presentation to dismiss it, saying, Nothing in the Bolton revelations, even if true, would rise to the level of an abuse of power, or an impeachable offense.”
Just what evidence can you cite that the Republican Party formerly cared more about moral character and sexual propriety?
The tendency to adultery, if that's what you're referring to, is strictly nonpartisan.
The Republican Party, since very shortly after the death of Lincoln, degenerated into a clique aimed at maintaining power for the wealthy, Now it has devolved into a clique manipulating the anger, fear, misogyny, and prejudices of the less well-off for the purpose of...maintaining power for the wealthy. The private conduct of, say, Eisenhower or Harding, was never the issue.
2
“Ms. Collins and Mr. Stephens ... In 2020, they will converse every week.”
Ouch. Every week! In 2020, I’d prefer hearing from Mr. Stephens every year please. Just once a year will be fine, and none at all would be even better.
1
There is no bright side to the impeachment process. The event highlights the level of depravity in American politics. Although a Liberal Democrat, I remember a time when the leaders of the Republican Party espoused positions and philosophies believing that the their platform was right, moral and good for America. The Bushes, Romney and others did not embrace Republican platforms secretly knowing that they were acting without integrity solely to gain or maintain power. We no longer live in such a political world. Shameless lying, deception, corruption and greed are the guideposts for many national leaders. This absence of honor and truth will destroy democracy.
10
There is a certain Monty Pythonesque quality to the Trump Presidency, so the title of this piece is appropriate. Maybe a movie, The Life of Donald is in the works.
45
Sanders is a Socialist. Sanders is a Socialist. Sanders is a Socialist.
Please take a day or two to look at his record of non-accomplishment, and his inability to work out compromises in order to move anything forward.
It takes a lot more than entertaining bluster to serve as the executive of the US govt.
6
Unless this comment was meant as irony, the last election proved that entertaining bluster is about all it takes for an Electoral College victory.
6
@maybemd Medicare is solicialism. Social Security is socialism. The mortgage interest deduction is socialism. The annals or corporate welfare bespeak trillions of dollars of socialism.
So socialism is only okay for the elite-wealthy and boomers? Ok boomer.
I must observe that maybemd said "serve as," not "get elected." Do you truly feel that Trump is serving us?
1
"Always Look on the Bright Side of Life?"
While I'm grateful for your reference to Monty Python star Eric Idle (who sang these iconic lyrics), I was very disappointed that you didn't take the opportunity to mark the recent passing of Idle's fellow Python, TERRY JONES, who actually directed "The Life of Brian", the amazing movie which ended with that song. Jones, of course, passed away just last week.
Life is a little less bright for all of us without Terry Jones and his wonderful humor. But the mere fact that you choose to quote a song from a 41-year-old movie, and assume your readers will recognize the reference, is an impressive testament to Jones's comedic legacy. Somewhere in Heaven, there's a penguin exploding on top of a television set in his honor.
7
Bret, Democrats are for tax cuts - just not tax cuts for the extremely wealthy and corporations.
They're also for de-regulation, just not deregulation for food safety, air and water pollution, or for industry policies that could crash the economy (although Clinton did repeal Glass-Steagall).
And they are also for a strong defense, just not for weapons systems that are outmoded. Of course, the best defense is to have no enemies - that's why we have a State Department; something the GOP has forgotten.
7
Regarding vice presidential candidates, Stacy Abrams is the obvious choice for almost any nominee. She would unify the Democratic coalition and put our focus right where it needs to be: expanding participation in government and making the new administration accountable to the people.
5
I guess I'm older than Gail or Bret. My first primary campaign (participating, not covering) was being "clean for Gene" in New Hampshire in 1968. Which, after a few more twists and turns, (and a couple of assassinations) ended up with the election of Richard Nixon. Ah, nostalgia!
3
If all political discourse were like this article, America might actually enjoy the political ride a lot more instead of the fear/dread/anger that it currently is.
5
Cory Booker is smart, optimistic, energetic and likable. He would be a good running mate for Warren.
5
Why Biden needs Amy to win the Midwest? He appeals to the Conservatives, she appeals to the Conservative, there is no added value. If anything, he needs more progressive VP to capture the Progressive vote in the swing states. But I guess, the idea to cater to the Progressive is totally alien to Bret that's why he gives such a bad advice.
4
@Carla Johnson
By Biden’s bumbling, stumbling style do you mean stuttering because that is what it is. It is very unfortunate but has not prevented him from achieving.
Do you also recognize that Sanders essentially yells at everyone? Or that Warren never answers the question asked, especially when someone asked her response to those who paid off their student loans or actually like their insurance and want a choice?
Or that polls at this time are one sided because they do not take into the reality of facing Trump in debates or withering criticism of their “radical platform” by the Republicans?
You can rely on whatever polls you want to believe. The fact is Trump is the incumbent and has a distinct and verifiable advantage. Look at history. Republicans are counting on it.
6
@ArtM donald j trump is a traitor who wants oligarch riches and power for life. Putin has winked and offered him that. Follow the money. I would never vote for the man, no matter how you mewl about Democrats' words. trump is a narcissist. No good thing can come out of him, for America.
the reality of facing Trump in debates? That's funny. trump will not debate, and the reason is that he has nothing but hate and evil motive.
I won't rely on polls. I don't care who the incumbent is, or what republicans are counting on. I'll not vote for an evil narcissist who thinks himself president of only part of the nation: The part that likes him.
You've chosen trump's lies and his life history of mob tactics. So be it. Your hypocrisy in noticing Bernie Sanders 'yelling' (I happen to agree with you) while thinking trump has an advantage in his putrid middle school insults and nicknames? Why would Americans not see them both?
Boy, if you think trump won't 'yell' once he becomes Kingtrump,dearleader for life, look at history. ANYONE BUT AN EVIL CLOWN LIKE TRUMP.
If neither Biden or Sanders win enough delegates for a first ballot victory, Bloomberg can emerge in Milwaukee as a compromise candidate.
7
Thanks for the pep talk you two and adding a little levity to an otherwise whirlwind of chaos.
9
1. The headline claimed the piece was about impeachment, but it was prepondorously about the presidential campaign.
2. Gail Collins observed "And then he went on to answer questions, all of which made it clear that his position on virtually every issue was based on when he got the most applause at campaign stops." Sounds like good advice for any campaigner.
1
@eclectico, regarding your #2, why should we have elected officials at all? Let's just vote on every issue. I prefer representatives who do more than just act as my proxy, I want them to inspire and lead.
The point Bret Stephens raises about authenticity is good, but it may be less relevant in the Trump era than, say, when you had a candidate like Mitt Romney, who couldn't figure out who he really was. Sanders is surging (in two small states) on cultish energy and deep grievance. But when it comes right down to it, he will be discarded because his radical, giveaway proposals just won't fly in this basically conservative (small "c") country. Trump was elected not because of "authenticity," but because his views on tax cuts, jobs, immigration, guns and nationalism aligned with the majority of voters in a half-dozen key states. Among the moderates, the strongest candidate with the most realistic record on pragmatic issues is Bloomberg. Once the impeachment story subsides, he'll likely turn his advertising clout to addressing specific problems that hit people where they live. I hope so.
5
As a 70-something, I'm becoming persuaded that Sanders v. Trump could be the Fight of the Century. Both yelling. Both wildly gesticulating. Both facing their Last Hurrah. Even with cardiac artery disease, Sanders can whip Trump.
136
@Richard
At 70-something you're old enough to remember Nixon vs. McGovern. The Democratic base was really excited by McGovern; he lost 49 states. That's when the Democrats put in the superdelegate system; to prevent another McGovern. It helped defeat Sanders in 2016. Would Sanders have done better than Hilary in 2016, or would he have lost like McGovern? Perhaps the Democratic party needs to relearn its McGovern lesson every 50 years or so, and this is our time. I hope we don't have to find out.
31
@Richard At the feed store a few years ago two old men, each in their 90s, sitting in the chairs reserved for the ancients, jumped up and began fighting after one had insulted the other by knocking his hat off. They ended up on the floor. There were several old men in the store, sitting on boxes and kegs and chairs, but no one stopped the fight. Even the old men who were not present can describe the fight as if they were there. Not many are left that were there.
3
@Richard
It will be a battle of crazy uncle who pays the bills [Trump] vs. crazy uncle who wants to give away all of the household income [Bernie].
Trump - to my horror - would win the battle of the crazy uncles.
2
Hey Bret, you and the Democrats are not disagreeing: (1) tax policy that produces a strong economy and even surpluses not record deficits and wealth and income inequality of the right; (2) better regulation as the OECD promotes, not no regulation as those who would see cliimate change destroy us all have; and (3) a strong defense based on strong alliances with our democratic friends and allies and not cozying up to Trump's dictator pals.
12
Thanks for trying, Gail and Bret. I want to laugh. Really do. Hope to. Again. Soon. (Prolonged discouragement hurts.)
Despairingly tweaked First Lady's slogan as a challenge to work-slacking-GOP-senator lickspittles: BE GRETA
9
Interesting read, but no it won't be Sanders and his bernie bots and it won't be Biden with his Hunter issues. Not sure who but those two are not worthy and will not win the election.
5
@kdw curious to know what your prediction was regarding Hillary! You are a good baseline for your own prediction.
2
@petey tonei no comment because I have no idea what you mean. HRC did win the most votes.
The moderate candidate is Warren. She's a reform capitalist not a socialist. And she understands that there really is a climate emergency.
How we can discuss politics at the presidential level without a single mention of the fact that the environment we depend on for our lives and the future of civilization is threatened. Hello! You live on the planet Earth. Wake up and smell the smoke!
21
@writeon1 The ability of so-called smart men to ignore the facts that will kill all of us, certainly all or most of our progeny, is astonishing and literally sickening.
I am curious why Prof Dershowitz was a 'lawyer' on the team. He was much more of an expert witness, who should be subject to cross examination as were the legal experts during the House hearings. Will he be present during the Q & A session? I also do not understand why members of the White House Counsel's office are acting as lawyers for a party when they were involved in the cover-up and should be called as witnesses. I hope they are questioned re their role in blocking the whistleblower report from Congress.
15
"Mike Bloomberg has found his real role. Once he gives up campaigning for himself, he’s clearly going to shift his financial support to whoever the Democratic nominee turns out to be."
The best thing Mike Bloomberg could do with his money is to pay off all of the fines of the Florida ex-felons who have done their time but are still being denied the right to vote because of the duplicity of the GOP. A 100,000 + voters to vote against the GOP in Florida in 2020 would do wonders for the eventual Democratic nominee. Like the Nike catch phrase Mike, "Just do it!"
401
@BCasero:
Inspired suggestion! I hope Mike Bloomberg hears/sees your comment.
27
@BCasero That’s an awfully big assumption- that they would all, or even mostly, vote Democrat. In my totally un-scientific observation of friends and family, those who exhibit poor decision making in life tended to vote for Trump.
8
@Maggie May I remind you it's not the Democrats in Florida that are denying the ex-felons who have served time the right to vote. You are correct though, some people do continue to make poor choices; however, in this case I think the odds would greatly favor non-Republicans.
11
I still prefer Stacey Abrams for VP. If Sanders can win Iowa, he'll do enough damage in the Midwest to make a difference on his own. He doesn't need the backup. Manufacturing is still in decline remember. He only needs a handful of votes to turn at least part of the Midwest. If Abrams can deliver Georgia and possibly Florida, the race is already over. Abrams will probably flip North Carolina too.
As for the Battle of the Bad Dates, I think there's an important difference between Trump and Sanders. Hanging out with Sanders is like taking your cantankerous grandfather to lunch. Trump is the old man at music concerts grinding on teenagers in the crowd. There's a creepiness factor that goes beyond decibels. We're talking about the President who backed Roy Moore.
My biggest fear with Sanders isn't his often grating mannerisms. I'm worried he'll win handily on a split ticket but older Democrats will abandon him on the general ballot. The same people who insisted Clinton was a winner and demanded young voters support her. Imagine if Mitt Romney had taken another stab at the White House. I guarantee we wouldn't be talking about Clinton's popular vote tally.
So far at least, the shoe is on the other foot. A Sanders nomination would leave Trump's second term in the hands of older establishment Democrats. The people telling you "Blue no matter who" when Biden is leading but suspiciously quiet when Sanders polls well. Given Clinton's recent public statements, I'm very concerned.
4
Eric Idle's performance of Always Look on The Bright Side of Life in the Life of Brian was humorous because the entire choir was being crucified on a sandy plain as he performed his bit.
Our current circumstance is more akin to the other cinematic mass crucifixion, the end of Spartacus in which Jean Simmons as Varinia searches for her lover Spartacus along the roman road on which his army is being crucified.
Like Varinia, we walk through this dumpster fire of an administration with the dreadful knowledge of how this impeachment trial, like all its predecessors, will end and with the hope we can find some spark of human empathy or compassion among the ashes.
Perhaps America is more aptly portrayed as the wasteland that was Centralia, PA, a town abandoned after the coal seams below it were ignited by accident and which continue to burn now decades later.
Sorry, Bret and Gail. Today I do not see much of a bright side. It is soon time to mount my crucifix.
89
@Doug McNeill
The apocalypticism and self-pity of some in the Democratic party is both insufferable and unhelpful. Nobody wants to elect the party of doom.
2
@Doug McNeill
Thanks for the imagery provided by your prose.
I'm not jumping on board with your doom and gloom, just yet. But, just as with our climate, the tipping point is near.
2
@Tom Meadowcroft
umm, did you listen to Trump's inaugural speech 2017?
5
Stephens - tax cuts, deregulation and a strong defense - I'll give you the strong defense, but the last things we need now are more tax cuts and deregulation. But those are why you will vote for Trump, despite everything you say to Gail Collins and us. You voted for him in 2016 and you will vote for him again, because like any Republican, you'd rather see a dictator take charge than not have your taxes and regulations reduced - DESPITE the fact that taxes are already far too low and the elimination of regulations on air and water quality are throwing us back into the days when I was a kid when the air was so dirty my mother washed the kitchen table three times a day and the local streams were so polluted they carried warnings not to go near them. Like any Republican, you are shameless, and I don't believe you have the country's best interest at heart.
23
@Brookhawk
Txaes collected as a share of GDP have remained remarkably stable through Dems and 'Publicans for decades.
It is measured as Federal Receipts as Percent of Gross Domestic Product and it helps to skewer the culture wars' claim that "taxes are already far too low"
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFRGDA188S
1
@Brookhawk: I liked your comment about lakes. A short tale about two of them: my dad lives on a lake in upstate New York that was a cesspool in the 1970s. New York state came in, stopped all the sewage that was emptying directly into the lake, and stocked the lake with fish once it had cleaned itself up. It has been the second cleanest lake in New York State for 20 years. I live near a large lake in North Carolina. No one I know will swim in it; it is polluted enough with contaminants from coal ash that there are signs warning fisherman to limit their consumption of fish caught in the lake to one serving a month. Guess which state has been traditionally controlled by Republicans?
3
@SteveRR
The issue is not taxes as a share of GDP.
The issue is that the richest are paying a lower percentage of income than the rest of us.
We need a return to progressive tax rates from the regressive rates in place now. Tax capital gains at a greater rate than wages, for example.
I like incentives for hard work and success. So not a socialist. I learned that public goods are abused when I tried to share a bike with a brother. I want my own stuff. Private property.
Private money means private power apart from government handouts. So Bernie is almost as bad as Trump, but not quite. His supporters are just as annoying...
5
How about your own planet?
I do enjoy the back and forth of Gail and Brett, as it is often very entertaining. But no mention at all of the riveting brilliant presentation by democrat lawyer Alan Dershowitz last night? I could listen to him speak about the constitution and law for hours and hours it is so impressive and informative. The key point was that A majority of our presidents have abused their power for their own reelection benefits. Lincoln did it, and Obama too My prediction is 54 - 46 on article 1, and 58-42 On article to all in favor of acquittal.
If that's really true and not just cheap sophistry, Congress should have initiated impeachment against them too. Abuse of power doesn't become OK just because "everybody does it."
2
Bernie's age is more of a cosmetic problem.
If he could get hold of Trump's beauty case, he'll have the look that people want.
I assume Trump has the following items: Hard-to-hold hairspray,
Propecia, Minoxidil, shower cap, hair clips, styling gel, teasing comb, Born Blond hair dye, Man Tan, white under eye concealer, etc.
For those pesky windy days, a MAGA cap.
8
I hope you were being sarcastic when you said the Democratic primary is exciting. It's excruciatingly dull, and also frustrating that as a Tennessean my voice will barely matter in the selection of the candidate.
The impeachment is even more depressing. Everyone assumes that Trump will walk away unscathed, not because he's actually innocent, but because Americans just assume that the government is corrupt and that justice is for sale in America. How depressing is that?
8
Ah the snarky cynicism of the pundits: what we need now.
Just for the record Mike Dukakis would have made a great president.
4
Bret, about ‘defense’. You surely know what most of our Founding Fathers thought of a ‘standing army’.
I guess we can add that to the list of “suggestions that look somewhat naive in retrospect, so that we needn’t take them seriously”, like, apparently, impeachment.
4
The political press loves the idea of bipartisan cooperation, which plays into a notion of American greatness. It also thrives on partisan conflict, because conflict drives the narrative. It doesn’t really know what to do with bipartisan failure.
During the impeachment hearings, news outlets gleefully covered the conflict between Trump and members of the foreign policy establishment, holding up the latter as selfless bureaucrats working tirelessly and anonymously on behalf of the American interest, in contrast with the feckless and narcissistic head of the executive branch. The Afghanistan Papers don’t provide that kind of easy contrast; they demand a kind of holistic condemnation, in which Trump and those bureaucrats are part of the same problem.
The Afghanistan War has been a catastrophic failure for nearly two decades. This massive controversy receives disproportionately little coverage. Despite wasting thousands of lives and hundreds of billions of dollars, everyone in the U.S. government gets off scot-free. The very people who have kept us in Afghanistan since 2001 remain empowered, thanks to a combination of cynicism and apathy. And as a result, the Afghanistan Papers have ended up working in favor of Trump’s Republican Party, which exists to channel voters’ contempt of elite lawmakers and the institutions they represent.
4
Well, I'll just throw this out there. What do you think the GOP learned from the Russian meddling in our 2016 election? Off hand, I'd say they learned two things. First, the Russians are gonna back Trump which translates into backing the GOP. Secondly, I think they learned that much of the American public can't be bothered by people who would like to destroy one of the pillars of our democracy, i.e., the vote.
How else do you explain the GOP ranting about the Dems trying to overturn the 2016 vote and their complicity in allowing the vote rigger-in-chief himself to get away with using tax payer money to tarnish his primary opponent in the 2020 election?
Barring a last minute crisis of conscience amongst the GOP senators, Trump will be howling his exoneration for the next 10 months. The only thing stopping him from bringing the concept of royalty back to the U.S. is the press and a willingness of deep state workers to feed the press a weekly dose of ever more lurid dirt on Trump.
6
How can you have a reference to Monty Python without mention of Terry Jones? Still a little sad... Rip.
"every issue was based on when he got the most applause at campaign stops."
Trump's instincts for power led him to take advantage of the electorate and gain the Electoral College. Will voters allow him to take advantage of them again? Probably. It seems that it is the undeclared purpose of FOX.
As for Warren, if she was a man, she would be leading. America just can't get past the gender issue. If HRC had been male, there would have been no President Trump. Red America hates strong females. Unfortunately, red America controls the Electoral College.
17
I've figured out what bothers me about these biweekly "The Conversation" between Gail and Stephens:
It's really annoying to see Stephens attempt to be funny in these columns!
Gail does political humor very well. On a regular basis, she uses humor as a consistent vehicle to carry her serious and thoughtful messages. It's her well-honed brand, and it comes naturally to her.
But from Stephens, his "humor" feels forced and insincere. Why? Because his true persona, as displayed in his regular columns, drips with condescension and disdain for everyone and everything on the Left. And let's not overlook the hypocrisy of his epiphanous Never Trump stance, after years of promulgating the lies and divisiveness of the Right.
So, after a career built on trashing the Left, followed by a few years of admonishing us what we're doing wrong (and what we "should" be doing to win over people like him), we're supposed to join him in making light of the situation? We're supposed to believe that by being humorous, we should
forgive him for his silent complicity which helped create this mess?
Gail's humor is consistent, sincere, insightful, and incisive (as political humor should be); but Stephens' is merely gratuitous.
Kudos to Gail for having the stomach to engage with Stephens; but shame on Stephens for attempting to assuage his guilt with humor. What you helped do to our country isn't funny at all.
17
The dividends of impeachment won’t be felt for years. When Trump hysteria fades and he’s something conservatives don’t want to talk about, like Sarah Palin or GWB, Democrats will eternally remind people of all the sleaze conservative leadership tolerated and excused because they chose cowardice over principle out of fear Trumps angry mob would take away their power. For those who vote to acquit, the stench of Trump will be forever upon them, and it will only smell worse as time goes on.
576
@Zack
I'm sure there will always be Trump apologists but we can hope that the Republican Party will return to its senses as it did after its enthrallment with and fear of Joe McCarthy.
Sadly Susan Collins doesn't have the courage of her Maine senatorial predecessor Margaret Chase Smith one of the few Republicans who were willing to stand up to McCarthy at the height of his power.
78
One of my greatest fears is that Republicans won't want to talk about Trump or Palin or GWB because someone even more horrible has come along and been elected.
31
Return to its senses? Sorry but that party has dropped with corruption, lies, deceit, and manipulation for decades.
46
A couple of points:
1) The Trump White House sand-bagged McConnell on the Bolton Book. They have had it for 4 weeks but didn't tell Mitch--or what was in it. Now he has to scramble to try to either block a super-star unimpeachable (pun intended) fact witness, or allow him to blow apart the President's defense. Talk about a rock & a hard place! (Well-earned, too--but NEVER trust Trump, except to do one thing--throw you under the bus!)
2) Warren has been blasted, yet she is THE candidate with proven managerial and organizational experience, setting up the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. She's actually got approaches and plans, and she's willing to modify them as reality requires--FDR was BRILLIANT at that.
3) Sanders DOES remind me of my uncle and my dad's friends (though he's closer to my eldest cousin than Dad's generation). The "Bad Date" analogy is tough, considering Bernie and Jane have been married for over 30 years and never been a HINT of problems. Yeah, he and Warren are VERY similar.
4) Bret's ideas of "great VP candidates" is pretty lousy. He ignored the BEST one: Stacey Abrams. She's Southern, brilliant, out-spoken, WIDELY admired, and has 2 obvious attributes: Female and a Person of Color. The GOP would attack her every which way. But her MAIN drawback is I really think she does not want to be VP.
8
What about Booker? Americans aren’t yet ready for his message of unity. We are all too angry for that. But in four years time we may be ready for a national healing.
1
@Vivien
Booker is my senator. He doesn't respond to eMails and only asks for $$$. Menendez is far more responsive. So I'm disappointed with him.
But his real problem he's a Democrat from the North East, like Sanders, Warren, and Biden. I just can't see Middle America voting for 2 Dems from the North East. The last 3 North Eastern Democrats to be elected President were Grover Cleveland, FDR, and JFK (60 years ago). Wilson, while nominally from NJ, was a Virginian.
What "heart and mind" of Susan Collins. She has proven over and over she is every bit as calculating as the rest of the Republican Senate. Bret Kavanaugh anybody?
35
If Elizabeth wins Iowa and starts building more momentum, maybe the ticket will be Elizabeth’-Amy.
3
Bernie Sanders would be Donald Trump’s last joke on us all.
We’re nowhere near knowing who the Democratic nominee is going to be. Just let the people vote.
4
I confess that in 2016, my fantasy debate was between Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders -- two angry, white, male, certain-they-know-something (sorry, no competition for Bret in the hyphenation dept.) senior citizens going at each other as only a pair of loud New Yorkers can.
But now I don't even consider which candidate can eviscerate Trump in a debate, because I'm convinced he'll slither out of participating (and his cult followers will love him for it).
Re: impeachment, what happens if Bolton (and phps. others) testify, and corroborate the obvious (that Trump committed crimes), and the Senate majority STILL votes to acquit? Where will we be then?
Must we really bid farewell to the last vestiges of Democracy just because Trump has misspent a lifetime cultivating accomplices who abet his efforts to elude accountability for every dishonest, unethical and criminal thing he's done?
7
Grim stuff, though it’s amusing to note Bret’s praises for Warren, now that he’s comfortably sure that Sanders will prevail.
I for one am saddened to contemplate a Trump/Sanders race. Bernie is an angry, uncompromising, ineffective one-trick pony. Hardly the best choice for President, yet I’d be forced to vote for him against Trump.
Sad situation similar to the HRC-haters responsible enough to “hold their noses” last time, I imagine. Hopefully with a different outcome.
9
If anybody is one-pony trick, it is moderates whose only claimed value is ' to unite the country' the trick that they were not able to perform for last 20 years. The progressives have bunch of initiatives to help all Americans.
1
Two things about Bernie: Never strays from his message, able to generate excitement among people who might not otherwise vote. The rest of us old folks should follow those younger people. They are the future.
2
Would love to hear who the Democratic cabinet secretary appointees are in advance of the election.
2
Gail & Bret didn't get around to perhaps the brightest bright side of the impeachment. The trial and its scripted vindication of Trump will, once and for all, put lie to the delusion that, somehow, Americans have not already elected and enabled a Supreme Leader and laws - including the Constitution - and Democrats - including their silly presidential candidates - still matter.
2
When Clinton was acquitted for immoral and sexual misconduct, Evangelicals realized that America doesn't care about those issues. Hence, they are no longer a political consideration. Rather, the issue is which candidate will most advance the remaining values of America.
@Matthew Those remaining American values include trying to take health care away from people, poisoning our air and water, locking children in cages, shafting our allies, and routinely violating the constitution? I think not.
1
Bright things? The brightest thing would be Trump is removed from the office as Bolton revelation encourages others to come forward as well and it snowballs into a revolution. Trump is also banned from further public office. As a civilian now he is open to all kinds of financial crimes and investigations.
The Republican party would have to scramble to put up a 2020 presidential candidate in a hurry. No Cruz Perry Jeb none of the 2016 candidates would do. Only mitt Romney will have the courage and stand up to cleaning up the Republican Party. Aided by his niece who is Republican Party chair (or something).
That’s bright for you. Sadly for both of you, the public is already ready for Bernie and we look forward to the next four years of running it in to you folks in the media. Gleefully.
2
Sad, but not surprising, that Stephens didn’t mention Stacey Abrams as he cast about for possible African-American running mates for the Democratic nominee.
2
@AnnaT
Yeah, it's worse than that. He's recommending a 73-year old former astronaut whose politics no one knows, as if civil rights merely requires window dressing, not substance.
But what can you expect from a newspaper whose editorial board group photo has its three African American board members arranged symmetrically -- Brent Staples dead center in the back row with four people on either side and in the front row Mara Gay and Aisha Harris are separated by two in the middle with one each on the outside. Couldn't they have arranged according to bald heads or blond hair?
I hereby nominate the NY Times Editorial Board for the John Bolton's Optician of the Year Award.
Commentators like the Iowa’s caucuses a lot more than average Americans.This year there is so much news but normally it is a quiet news period and they can fill their columns with tidbits about candidates in Iowa.History is not necessarily kind to the winners of the Iowa caucuses-think of Dick Gephardt, Edmund Muskie, Tom Harkin-they won Iowa but not their party nomination-others have won both, to be sure, but the Iowa hype is just too much hype! Most of us do not identify with Iowa or with caucuses-super Tuesday looms large.Years ago before the information revolution a win in Iowa was a big deal, now people follow political news and don’t care much what happens in Iowa-I know, I don’t.
3
I have - before he was even in office - musically referred Trump’s comeuppance to Coldplay’s song, “Viva La Vida”.
The lyrics just fit where I see it all going for The Donald.
“I used to rule the world
Seas would rise when I gave the word
Now in the morning, I sleep alone
Sweep the streets I used to own
I used to roll the dice
Feel the fear in my enemy's eyes
Listen as the crowd would sing
Now the old king is dead! Long live the king!
One minute I held the key
Next the walls were closed on me
And I discovered that my castles stand
Upon pillars of salt and pillars of sand
I hear Jerusalem bells are ringing
Roman Cavalry choirs are singing
Be my mirror, my sword and shield
My missionaries in a foreign field
For some reason I can't explain
Once you go there was never, never a honest word
And that was when I ruled the world
It was a wicked and wild wind
Blew down the doors to let me in
Shattered windows and the sound of drums
People couldn't believe what I'd become
Revolutionaries wait
For my head on a silver plate
Just a puppet on a lonely string
Oh, who would ever want to be king?
My missionaries in a foreign field
For some reason I can't explain
I know Saint Peter won't call my name
Never an honest word
But that was when I ruled the world...”
Thank you for giving my musical mind a much needed, lighthearted break until Trump is out of office - whichever way that is ultimately achieved.
4
I think Biden with a strong VP is the best bet against the lousy, uninspired, cruel trump. My choice for VP is Klobuchar. But there are others like Bullock I would support. I would hope to see many of the candidates, like Bennet and Booker, in Biden’s administration.
I want quiet and stability after these past few years of mind-polluting insanity.
7
@MLE53 both Centrist tickets will turn off the vast majority of progressives who will remain frustrated. Vote blue no matter who, even this powerful slogan might not bring out all dem voters should it be Biden Amy...
1
Listening to you both is like listening to myself. I want this over and done with. Mostly I want Trump over and done with. I want McConnell, Graham, Jim Jordan, Devin Nunes over and done with. I want 53 cowards in the Senate over and done with too.
I want the Democratic candidate over and done with. Whoever it is I'll make the best of it and hope and hope and hope.
9
"I fear the likeliest outcome is that Trump emerges from the trial stronger politically and, if it’s possible, even more shameless."
So are you implying that the impeachment is illegitimate?
2
Heavens no. They’re saying that the Senate is completely spineless.
4
There is a crisis in America (Put aside the stock-market).
Trump saw it - and exploited it with promises he had neither the intention nor the ability to fulfill.
Bernie sees it too: whether you trust his solutions or not, you can trust that that he will work to solve it - and that we need change from the sort of politics that brought us to this point.
4
So fun that these two managed to pick up a theme that already made the rounds, a week ago. Very creative.
2
All very entertaining repartee, but is Sanders likely to win in the electoral college? Dismissing Bloomberg as nothing more than a wallet is not especially insightful. Also, we all know that the media has been obsessed with the importance of Iowa, a state whose electorate is very probably not representative of the rest of the country, but has the first caucus. Or NH, for that matter. A state that is also very probably not like the majority of the country. I would have appreciated repartee that focused on the relevance of Iowa and NH aside from their caucus and primary calendars. Also, one that focused on the electoral college and the composition of the electorate in the key states.
Finally, please remember that there is nothing humorous about Trump and his damage to our country already.
18
The reason we are going through all of this is to find a way to keep Trump off the ballot in November. They wanted Mueller to do the job for them. That didn't work out for them. For almost two years they proclaimed how Mueller was going to get Trump convicted and have him dragged out of the White House in chains. Other than that that, they didn't pass a single significant piece of legislation,though they get a few post offices named for someone. This past year the only thing they voted for that was significant was Trump's trade deal. Trumps economy, seven million new jobs, reduction in unemployment rate and new trade agreements is unique. We are not at war and he did take out someone who two presidents traded the lives and limbs of our military so that Soleimani could live. Who can beat him, Sanders? He is a profession politician who has live out of the wallets of tax payers most of his adult life and now wants to turn this country into a socialistic nation. How about Biden? Biden will defeat himself. This impeachment will soon be gone and will have only solidified the opinions held before the hearings. Trump will have two themes to run on, "Promises Kept" and "I gave the power to you and they are trying to take it back. Don't let them." He is going to be hard to beat, especially when socialism, government with total control of health care, higher education and tax increases up to 50%or more is all you have to offer.
3
Where have you been? 200 bills passed by Ds in Congress since D 2018 majority gained, were forcefully mothballed by McConnell in R Senate. The Rs have been do-nothings other than deregulation to undermine progress made on every issue, such as environmental safety and the dangerous banking practices that landed us in the Great Recession.
162
As my friend Scooter says, not so fast. We are more than talking points. That any president would leverage the power of his office, through his private attorney and a couple of would be goons, paid for by a Russian oligarch, to coerce any country,to investigate any American citizen, forever deprives that president of the privilege of serving.
376
@Ron...I thought Mexico was gonna pay for the wall! Where's that great replacement for "Obamacare"? The expansive infrastructure program? The deficit and public debt reduction? GDP growth of 3-5% to pay for the 2017 corporate tax giveaway (most of my friends and neighbors, we didn't see a tax cut)?
16
@common sense advocate
The goal is to defeat Trump. That is the only goal. I don’t care who the Democrat’s nominee is if they can defeat Trump.
But...
Sanders will not defeat Trump.
Warren will not defeat Trump.
Mayor Pete will not defeat Trump.
What progressives and many NYT readers need to understand is the singular goal, defeat Trump. Nothing occurs without accomplishing that goal. I don’t care what ideas or platforms you have for the future because none of it matters if Trump remains in office.
Why is that so hard to understand? Republicans understand that fully.
57
@ArtM polls currently show that sanders, warren or biden would beat trump. biden is the weakest of those three because of his stumbling, bumbling style, and questionable, quite attackable record. one must remember that any program that an administration proposes has to get through the filters of both houses of congress to become law or policy. the chance of the country converting to socialism is therefore slim ; the likelihood of a more fair tax structure and less looting of out pockets by giant corporations would be a welcome change from the present situation.
16
Agreed, but what I see currently happening is the “hillarization” of joe Biden. They constantly hammer out Biden =Corruption and just like the faux email scandal, it might work.
5
@Vivien
Exactly. Biden will never escape Hunter Biden.
Sanders will never escape socialism.
Warren will never escape her "radical" agenda as corporations pour funds into Republican coffers.
Major shifts in policy and social structure happen over time, more time than anyone wants to admit. Women's right to vote? Healthcare? Non male-female families?
It takes time, lots of time. Add to that there has to be compromise. I don't care if Democrats win both houses and the presidency. There will be compromise.
Include the simple fact that proposing such major changes now does not help the singular goal- defeat Trump based on making him unpalatable to the voters instead of making the Democrats unelectable.
This is not to say we don't need many changes, corruption is rampant and our system is broken. But we need Trump out first and foremost. Then balance Congress.
2
If Sanders receives the nomination, it will result in the reelection of Donald Trump. Just because he's popular with an increasing number of leftish voters does not mean he will be able to win the center.
30
And I don’t believe that Sanders can win the center. Sanders is useful only in making Warren seem more moderate than she is. But he can leave, now.
3
@Linda pollssuggest otherwise. most people find trump too vile and dangerous to stomach any longer
2
"Gail, all Democrats need to do is come around on tax cuts, deregulation and a strong defense and we’ll never disagree again."
We just don't spend enough on defense.
How about cut the bacon fat out of the MIC as a tax cut?
4
Bret, Eric Idle, as the character Brian sang ‘always look on the bright side of life’ at the end of the movie while nailed to a wooden cross, facing inevitable death.
Perhaps the metaphor is quite apt even though you seem to use the words out of that context.
The bright side may be the sugar high we are feeling from Mr Trump’s deficit stimulus (not good at a time of boom - we should be paying down debt and saving deficits for the inevitable downturn) but we may well be dying - as in our democratic institutions, unless someone takes us down and heals our wounds.
21
I love your theory about the bad boyfriends. The decision will have been made well before my state votes in the primaries. But could we just not have one grouchy man running against one hateful one? I like Bernie, too, but Amy, please?
18
Biden can win. Bernie can't. So, let's assume Biden. As for his VP running mate, I like Warren, but if she is too risky, then I like a Steve Bullock or Amy Kobuchar or Sherrod Brown.
17
I like a Biden Warren ticket also. But, we need to keep a stronger focus on the Senate (which I believe taking back is more important than taking back the presidency)
Stacy Abrams should run for the Senate. Jay Inslee should run for the Senate. (I do not know why they are so far refusing.) All current Senators (including Brown, Warren, Booker, Sanders, Klobuchar, must stay.) The dream is to defeat McConnell now the most powerful politician in the world. If McGrath cannot beat McConnell, then taking the Senate is mandatory, regardless of who wins the Presidency.
25
@JC For sure, removing McConnell is even more important than removing Trump. Trump without McConnell is manageable, no matter how vile. Warren with McConnell, we still lose.
6
Nope, Sherrod wins in Ohio, he stays.
2
Bret, you remark that "Biden’s political flaw is that ... he’s running on experience and character, not ideas and policies."
But isn't that what a lot of Americans particularly want, this year? Not necessarily in the form of Joe Biden, but in the alternative to Donald Trump.
15
@Longestaffe biden seems unable to defend himself well when attacked. he fumbles and seems flustered and confused. he is slow and poor at verbal comebacks. trump would chew him up on day one. we need a fighter who is articulate and a verbal attack dog, quick on their feet. biden has none of this . a biden nomination would be like handing trump 4 more years without a fight
3
Gail how can you tell whether Sanders chooses his position based upon when his speeches draw applause, or whether Sanders draws applause because people like his positions?
Whether you like the man or not, his positions are pretty much fixed and “that” might be a flaw, but a timeserver he is not.
What you need to ask is whether he can blend social-justice-through-equality with an economy with fluidity of capital - and moving money from the top to the bottom seems like a better approach than the current, opposite one.
7
@Gerard Um, she said that about Trump, not Sanders.
4
She was talking about Trump.
1
@Jeoffrey
OMG - you are right - I read it wrong - I guess it is just getting to me and there are still months to go ... I should have trusted Gail
2
The steady drip of new evidence against Trump is bound to effect the dynamic of impeachment and the Democratic campaign. I look at this as a beginning with no predictable end. Public opinion and an energized press will force the Senate to call Bolton et.al. Even weasels like Romney and Collins will cave to the pressure for more testimony and supporting documents.
Imagine the Strangelovian spectacle of Ken Starr cross-examining John Bolton? What a country.
22
I actually have friends who slough off Trump’s affairs and revile Clinton for his. Could they be Republicans? Of course.
Amy Klobuchar’s failure to generate excitement is confounding you me. Maybe she will succeed asa VP nominee but my feeling is Amy is the best candidate for both male and female voters as the presidential nominee.
The best we can reasonably expect from the impeachment inquiry is the loss of a Republican Senate seats. Trump is far from leaving office either by impeachment or 2020. Then again, I fear what he might attempt to do in either situation. Congress needs to be ready for a transition of power crisis.
My fervent hope is that Mike Bloomberg, assuming he does not get the nomination, continues his campaign against Trump. Trump has no solution to him and is taking the bait. Any Democrat nominee will need Mike’s campaign because they, as a whole, face an uphill battle against an incumbent president.
58
@ArtM If he loses in November, Trump is not leaving office to face prison time in NYState, where he cannot be pardoned.
4
@Big Frank
I don't disagree.
@ArtM based on what's happened so far, I actually don't worry about him leaving office. I expect whining, denials, and cowardice. This guy is no actual revolutionary. He'll blow hot air, throw lawyers and money at his problems, and abandon every single one of his followers at the first sign of consequences.
1
Readers, the point of today's conversation is to "Always Look on the Bright Side of Impeachment," and "Not to mention the Democratic presidential race. It can be done, if you put your mind to it." Let's put our minds to it.
As Bret says, the Senate trial is "a bit like watching a recording of a football game when you already know the final score.." Trump will be acquitted. Let that sink in and consider what that means for the November election.
Trump will campaign on the message that he is running against corruption in politics. No matter who the Democratic nominee is, Trump will paint her/him as the most corrupt person in the history of America. (Keep in mind, he doesn't need any evidence to support him, his lies are universally accepted as truth by Republicans and shrugged off by others as just Trump taking a breath, breathing another lie. But who knows, he might just cite former Democratic House member, Michael Myers who pleaded no contest to disorderly conduct in 1979 after getting into a fight at a Virginia bar.)
Now back to the November 2020 election. What we all fear most is coming: Trump reelected. Republicans reclaiming the House and adding to their majority in the Senate. How is that possible you ask? Because Sanders voters will stay home when Biden is nominated and Biden supporters will stay home when Sanders is nominated. That's how Democrats lose elections.
And on top of Democrats hurting themselves, there's Russia, Ukraine and China, "If you're listening.."
19
@JABarry Biden voters will not stay home. They will not be happy, but they will vote for Sanders.
6
To those who say that, if Sanders doesn't win the nomination, then people will stay home: if Sanders were a true patriot who wanted most to serve our country best interests - then, like Michael Bloomberg, he would already be committing to throw his full weight behind supporting the Democratic candidate, no matter who it is. But Sanders, and Sirota, his henchman who viciously attacks other candidates, are playing a nihilistic game: if Sanders doesn't win the nomination - he will destroy us with Donald Trump, not only for the next four years, he will destroy our civil rights, our air/land/water, and our lifeblood - freedom of the press - leaving us unable to recover for generations.
41
@common sense advocate uh, sanders campaigned for clinton in 2016 after her campaign played some very dirty tricks in the primaries. can you imaging clinton doing the same for sanders ?
your assertion that bernie would not support another democratic nominee defies the fact that he did exactly that in 2016.
6
Sanders worked tirelessly campaigning for Hillary after the nomination was settled. He addressed many more rallies for Hillary then Hillary ever did. And he will do the same for whoever the Democratic nominee is this year. You sound like you know absolutely nothing about Bernie’s candidacy and don’t want to know.
5
@common sense advocate
Bernie Sanders will not stay home. They are invested in defeating Trump. Bernie Sanders people are no children like Trump is, or whiners they want to make America a better place for all.
Tired of the slogans, the what if. We know the what if it Trump gets more time in office, this country will be destroyed. So lets get busy and support whoever is the nominee. Life isn't fair and you might not get your choice but we didnt sign up for crazy, bigotry and stupidity either.
3
"The most memorable meeting was, of course, with Donald Trump, who couldn’t seem to answer a single question in a remotely coherent or non-narcissistic fashion. We walked out bemused and appalled and convinced he would eventually fade, which, well, tells you how much pundits really know about politics."
68
@Arthur
Contrast that with the story yesterday in the Times of Bloomberg calling Trump after the election to congratulate him. Both being real estate developers turned into politicians, Bloomberg offered some advice. Hire people smarter than you are.
Trump’s response? There’s nobody smarter than I am. Says it all.
14
@Arthur So, he's not going to fade? I could only believe there would occur a cosmic event, heretofore unknown, if the NYT or MSM were to say, "It looks like Trump's going to win."
@Arthur
I posted Bret's quote from the article because it struck me as saying it all.
What it says to me is what I have thought for long time, financial wealth matters more than anything else on Gods green earth. That's power.
I can't say that I would suggest to my grandnieces and nephew that it was the most important human requisite, but it's how humans get what they want, right or wrong.
4
To be sure Bernie would be a vast improvement over tRump- but so would a rock.
I don’t understand why the left can’t see how similar tRump and Bernie are and rabid extremists on both sides are dangerous. Yes, I know, the Dems have moved a lot more to the center that the far left looks moderately left. But as president you are governing the whole country so you should be closer to the center.
Anyway, if Bernie wins, I’ll vote for him. People like Bret deserve it for bringing us tRump.
62
@JA “but as president you are governing the whole country”. Not just your base?? There’s a novel thought.
Tax cuts are a great idea --- during a recession! Not in a boom, and not just for the rich.
36
@Portola and not with a ballooning debt/deficit...anyone know how much we're paying in interest alone, and how those amounts will increase in the future?...we need significant tax increases on the wealthy to pay for that, not to mention infrastructure, climate change, shoring up Social Security and Medicare...good luck finding money to pay for help with health care and education costs...
20
@Jim and we need drastic reductions in military spending, so much of which is wasteful. and we need to finally end our utterly useless, costly wars.
7
@Jim Gosh, if we thought about healthcare as bombing some country in the middle east we would have all the money we need.
These two offer a marjorine of either witty analysis or sophomoric graveyard humor to describe current affairs.
Octogenarian presidents? Check.
Dismissing trump, check.
Witty reparte about past campaigns, check.
Relevant commentary seems to be missing in their passive acceptance of Biden and Sanders as cures for trump toxins.
Iowa and New Hampshire are not representative of the electorate. Early victories there make no sense in the real scheme of things outside of what the pundits rant about.
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As cherrylog754 hints at, all of those potential Democratic nominees better have Stacey Abrams on running mate speed dial.
Not only would she excite African American voters (who the Democrats decidedly need to come to the polls at the rates they did in 2008/12, and not at the rates they did in 2016); but she certainly puts Georgia in play, and may be the difference in Florida and North Carolina.
And I'd love to see a Pence/Abrams debate.
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@Glenn Ribotsky If you don't know about Stacey Abrams, listen to her on youtube. She's brilliant, passionate and immensely charismatic. If I were Pence I'd be trembling in fear of meeting her on the debate stage.
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@Glenn Ribotsky I am an old white Southerner and I am even more impresssed by Stacy Abrams than by Pete Buttigieg. Really hope someone asks her to be VP candidate.
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@Glenn Ribotsky Thank you for mentioning the amazing Stacey Abrams. She is only person, I believe, who has actually sort of gotten an endorsement from President Obama. Somewhere, sometime in the recent past, I recallI that Barack Obama said, "I love me some Stacey Abrams."
Love her too!! She's great!!
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The conversation format seems a less efficient way to convey ideas than the traditional, single voice, format. May be that it’s better suited to slow news cycles where humanizing the news of the day would be respite from otherwise boring coverage. Unfortunately, we are not living in boring times.
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Tax cuts?
We have a national debt over 23 Trillion, a sum we will never pay, and that makes us bankrupt, at least using my system of economics. It has risen over 2 Trillion since Trump took office.
Deregulation?
Without laws made out of steel and possible prison terms for the corporate masters who break them, we are really and truly headed for a Blade Runner misery of a future.
No, our corporate masters need to be made the beasts of burden of our culture, not our predators.
And our strongest defense has always been what came from our greatest invention, the American system of public education, something Trump and Devos are devoted to weakening.
Hugh
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@Hugh Massengill
re. your last sentence. My wife and I, both retired teachers, dropped our grandson off at his private kindergarten today. She got back in the car laughing. She had been asked if she did substitute teaching. The owner had explained that they were having a difficult time finding subs at the kindergarten and their 1-8 school. My wife declined and they briefly discussed how teachers are so disrespected no one wants to do it.
We have a great knack in this country for idolizing and making heroes of those who don’t really do anything to advance our society.
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@JKile
I have been avoiding making comments in this space recently--to avoid the anxiety that comes from thinking too deeply about current politics. BUT I read your account of the private kindergarten's desperate search for substitute teachers.
In the last Alabama county in which I taught, classroom teachers were responsible for finding their own substitute teachers. If teachers had a scheduled doctor's appointment or if they became ill during the night, they had to call a list of substitute teachers and secure a teacher to replace them for the day.
This is what we have come to. There is such a lack of respect for the classroom teacher that they must find on their own the person who will manage their classroom during an absence. In the past, the job of finding a substitute was done by an administrator.
I once called 53 subs before I located one who would agree to come into my classroom the next day. Who needs a job like that? The answer is that America's children need to have that job filled by people who are respected.
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@TinyBlueDot:
Yes, and add to that the abysmal per diem rate in places like NH. In my area in NH, where I would gladly pick up a day or two as a substitute, the rate averages about $75.00 per day. That is simply an insult.
And...not to put too fine a point on it, teaching the students from the department lesson plan is required. So, it is not just order maintenance and babysitting.
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Distortion, even in the name of humor, does nobody any good.
Democrats have taken morality seriously -- supporting women's and minority rights, caring about children, healthcare -- real public moral issues. They always opposed, at the same time, hypocrisy (Republicans' anti-abortion stance coupled with lack of caring for kids, especially in poor polluted neighborhoods).
Democrats have cared about foreign policy -- favoring diplomacy over war, opposition to mistaken policies overseas (Vietnam), and support for people even when hostile to their governments.
And Democrats I know were far from pleased with Bill Clinton's personal behavior, but compartmentalized that into the personal, and were supportive of his public actions. I. as well as many Democrats, were not thrilled with many of his policies -- welfare, banks, etc., and opposed him on those for policy reasons. No blind following.
And as for Bernie, I think he get his support from a lot of folks who see him as serious about the direction he wants to go -- furthering equality, fair taxes, better wages for the poor and lower middle-class, avoidance of unnecessary wars combined with strong diplomacy, and fairness in foreign policy -- not particularly in any particular policy proposal. And this is probably why he does not provide numbers. He is not projecting details about things we all know will be revised in the crucible of real politics. But we are sure he will push hard to go in the right direction.
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Would Biden pick Kamala Harris or Amy Klobuchar?
Bret: Klobuchar, please. Biden needs to win voters in the Midwest, not in California.
Bret is dead on here. Biden-Klobuchar would be a master stroke. And for the record: both Klobuchar and Warren have been FAR more productive senators than Sanders. Shouting out in an early debate that 'Medicare for all' will roll out promptly after millions of people rise up and demand it- that's not a project plan, that's tilting at windmills.
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@common sense advocate A Biden-Kobuchar ticket: all the Democratic voters under the age of 50 would stay home. Neither of these two have outlined a clear platform that departs from the status quo--a status quo that has remained mostly unchanged regardless of which party has held the presidency. Democrats need to ignite some passion, not coast along on the same old same-old.
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@Richard Do you really think voters under the age of 50 are so ambivalent about another four years of the Trump presidency that they would sit this election out?
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Sanders supporters keep saying that Democrats under 50 will stay home if Sanders is not nominated but there's no evidence to support that. There is however evidence to support the conclusion that Sanders voters, mostly young, are precisely the sort of voters, mostly young, who historically have not shown up to vote. That's quite a gamble for Democrats to make this year.
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So Gail dismisses Sanders because he firmly stands up for everyone's rights, namely health insurance, housing, building healthy communities, defence instead of offense, and clean air/water putting climate change at bay. He is in sync with majority voters on his policies. His honesty and political energy are second to none. Just ask veterans, teachers, nurses, and union members why they support Bernie. He is the only genuine article beholding only to working and down on their luck citizens out there. All his accomplishments were as an independent under a progressive banner. What holds some Americans back is fear of reforms because the government has disappointed them too often. Someone so dedicated to make government work is surging politically because in spite of increasing GDP, the economy is not properly ensuring a living wage for those that work and decent help for those down on their luck who have been isolated from dignified existence.
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@Donald Green I totally agree! I will take living in a social democracy over what we have now; an oligarchy (the way it was designed)! It is time for a democracy where people have basic human rights like access to affordable healthcare, pre-school and upper education, living wages. The "wishy washy middle of the road do not rock the boat politicians" must go! Economically, we need what is commonly called Rhenish capitalism as is practiced in Germany but also the Netherlands, Denmark, and Sweden—and has also been used to characterize Japan. This is a system of capitalism characterized by non‐market patterns of coordination by economic actors and extensive state‐regulation of market outcomes. This would eliminate the so called law of the jungle Anglo-Saxon capitalism that has been destroying the American middle class through its greed; a race to the bottom wages to maximize stockholder returns. And, no Rhenish capitalism is not like the form of Socialism practiced in Venezuela or Cuba!! It is what American deserve!
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“Gail, all Democrats need to do is come around on tax cuts, deregulation and a strong defense and we’ll never disagree again.”
Brett, Democrats caved on that stuff decades ago, many times with Joe Biden at the vanguard. This devastated the multiracial working class and led to the rise of Trump and of course its antidote, Bernie Sanders.
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@Chad Right. How typical of the conservative to expect the liberal to come around, and not himself to move along. Too bad Gail didn't take the last word this time.
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What both Gail and Bret have to say on Warren rings true. Having long admired her empathy for ordinary working people, her fervent desire to confront the problems that confront them and her unique mixture of intelligence, vision, persistence and practicality, I believe she is far and away the best choice to lead us forward. Let us come together, get behind her and go forward with her with the same sense of purpose.
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@Dale Irwin Agreed. And I hate seeing columnists write her off a week before anyone has even voted! As a Californian who, for one of the only times in my life will see my vote count, I wouldn't assume that the rest of the states will follow Lemming-like after Iowa and New Hampshire. Those places couldn't be less like where I live... Same goes for the voters.
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@Dale Irwin
I guess you don't remember all her empathy for ordinary working people when she was still a libertarian Republican supporting the policies of that great friend to the downtrodden Ronald Reagan.
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@Steve
As a matter of fact, I do. That makes her all the more attractive to me. Her road to Damascus conversion, wrought not by some blinding light, but by an intense empirical dive into working and middle class bankruptcies, appealed to her sense of reason and set her on a different course. I'm sure you have been consistent in thought and belief since birth, so it may be hard to see someone else who has changed as less than perfect. Have fun finding that person.
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My dad is only a few years older than Bernie. He was president of his condo until last year. He resigned because he said he was too old and tired to do it anymore. And that was a condominium. It's not like he was the leader of the free world.
I wish Bernie a long and happy life, but a Sanders election means that we all have to focus like a laser on who he chooses for his vice president-elect.
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@Jack Sonville
People age at different rates. there are people who suffer dementia in their 40s and 50s and others who maintain their cognitive faculties into their 90s.
Casey Stengel was fond of saying most people his age were dead.
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If Bernie and Liz bury the hatchet, she would make the best possible. VP.
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@Jack Sonville
We should all laser focus on who the Vice Presidential Candidate is. Mike Pence is a perfect example of that.
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If it's Trump vs. Sanders, I'm just going to have to move to Mars. I'll vote for Bernie by absentee ballot.
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@JoeG
As you would have to have spare hundreds of millions to pay Elon Musk for the trip I think you'd probably stick around and vote for Trump.
@JoeG. Exactly. You'll need earplugs for the debate. Two, old, loud, angry, white guys. I'll share the costs of the ride to Mars with you.
@Steve Nah. The Martians will be offering free rides.
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The bright side.
President Sanders and Vice President Stacey Abrams assume the White House in January, 2021. Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi immediately introduces Healthcare legislation. Senate majority leader Chuck Schumer organizes his committee's to investigate the previous administrations misdeeds at all departments.
Vote Democratic this November.
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@cherrylog754
"Senate majority leader Chuck Schumer organizes his committee's to investigate the previous administrations misdeeds at all departments."
Right. And nothing gets through Congress. All we'll get with be more vitriol.
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Sanders has never passed a significant piece of legislation in his long Senate career. He’s a firebrand orator, not a leader.
The notion that he could govern effectively is belied by his long record.
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@cherrylog754
I really would like to know the potential VPs.
Diversity in the White House is important to me.
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I must beg to disagree with Brett's three demands for a Democratic candidate to vote for.
What does deregulation get us? Air pollution, contaminated waters, shoddily-built infrastructure, tainted drugs, and infected food.
Tax cuts have been proven time and time again to increase the deficit.
However, I don't think Dems object to a strong defense, as long as the money is being spent appropriately.
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@HN
You're right about the regulations that keep us physically safe. But, when someone like Bret speaks of deregulation I'm pretty sure his focus is on financial regulations. He follows the Republican mantra of low taxes which allows the ultra-wealthy and corporations to become more wealthy (with inability to fund a social safety net or pay for implementing health regulations as a bonus). And let's get rid of those pesky regulations on banks and insurance companies. So what if it leads to another depression as long as it funnels more money to the wealthy. The people who cause it, the beneficiaries, are never held accountable.
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@HN Isn't our defense strong enough? Good grief. For heaven's sake, can we please start using the bulk of tax payer money on quality of life issues like health, education,and our crumbling infrastructure?
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@syfredrick
Well put! My knee-jerk reaction is to think deregulation and health, but the financial deregulation is an even more insidious problem.
@H Silk
Yeah - agreed! I was just trying to be "reasonable". And appropriate spending includes supporting our troops - during and after - and not using money allocated to Defense for things like building a physical wall.
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"We could actually be cruising toward the Battle of the Bad Dates."
Thank you, Gail. It's good to be able to laugh in such dire times.
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@Delph One of the reasons I read Gail Collins is the 'funny factor.' As we share some of the same nationality, Irish, the 'funny factor' comes with the territory and there might even be s special set of characters on the key board for such.
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