Trump’s lawyers are playing the victim card, which plays right to Trump and his base. His voters see themselves as victims, they see the president as a victim, and when the president sees himself as a victim, which is daily, they see themselves as victims all over again. They then feel angry and resentful all over again and their love for Trump grows stronger. Expect to see a lot more of Trump the victim as Trump’s lawyers finish up their case.
5
Impeachment does not overturn or invalidate an election. Only an elected president can be impeached in the first place. We are still left with his legacy for decades to come. Judicial appointments, policies, etc. Elections have consequences. The election of consequence the White House is overlooking is the 2018 midterms where Democrats took the house, thus enabling the impeachment. The people have spoken and will speak again in 2020. Trump’s defense withholds information to its own detriment.
3
I do hope Republican Senators are taking their job and America's future seriously.
At best, to acquit him on Trump team's defense is to set a precedent that the president can conduct foreign policy through a network of friends and acquaintances. No oversight, no official channels, no paper trail, just do whatever he pleases using US riches and power.
That has been a consistent m.o. in all Trump's business dealings. He has always used other people's assets, money, reputations to his benefit alone (even his money was someone else's, he inherited it). When he runs companies into bankruptcy (6 times to date) instead of losing he makes a personal fortune by weaponizing the law to his advantage. The US is by far the biggest asset account Trump has had access to. Think on it.
It is positively surreal to even contemplate.
1
I draw hope and strength from Rachel Bitecofer of the Wason Center for Public Policy. Her forecast for the 2020 presidential election shows that 278 electoral votes are locks for the Democratic candidate. According to her model, even if Trump wins the states she deems to be in play, he will not be able to win. The only caveat she offers is if “a disruptor like Bernie Sanders” is the nominee. Bitecofer has serious credibility: she was one of the few forecasters to accurately predict the scope of the 2018 takeover of the House.
This is all a chess game. I do not mean to be facetious; this is a chess game of enormous consequence, but everyone involved has a chance to make a move, even lowly members of the electorate. The Senate will acquit Trump. According to Bitecofer, he has already lost the next election.
1
Trump's lawyers provided additional reasons for Republican Senators to ask for documents and witnesses. For example, they did not provide exculpatory evidence based on documents and witnesses. Acquittal without hearing the evidence will damage Republicans for years to come because few will believe any exculpatory "evidence" concocted after the trial. this is the best moment for Republicans to rescue their reputations. Republicans should believe Trump enough to supoena the evidence during the trial so that acquittal is exoneration.
The bottom line is this: If Trump is not convicted and removed from office, he becomes an even more out-of-control monarch and the power of impeachment--of the built-in safety mechanism of check and balances, will be nullified.
Monarchy or Democratic Republic?
Do we really want Republicans choosing for us?
5
The defense is freeing itself from introduction of evidence and witnesses to prove its case, and disprove the prosecution's case. In other words "fact is whatever we say it is". Yet the claimed weaknesses in the prosecution's case are primarily based on holes in the evidence. So, in a Tweetshell the defense is telling the senators: Believe what we say, not the evidence laden prosecution presentation.
Important to keep in mind, in the Trump universe, mendacity is fond attribute. Truthfulness not so much, .
To say this that impeachment is some kind of plot to overturn the previous election is absurd on its face considering that in the event a president is removed from office, the vice president, who was elected by tut he exact same voters, assumes the office.
But apart from that, while it is true that insofar as elections represent the "will of the people," their outcomes must be respected. But the will of the people is not sacrosanct. An elected official earns the right to hold a particular office by getting elected to it. He or she retains that right by discharging their official duties in accordance with the standards of ethics and conduct required of the office. The founders provided the remedy of impeachment for those instances when they do not.
2
If the Senate Republicans believe it’s a valid and legitimate use of presidential power to chase down conspiracy theories to threaten other Americans and allies without being aware of the dangers to everyone involved, I think I can finally understand why the Republicans have accomplished so little in so long and spent so much money doing it.
1
The prosecution is using the technique of gaslightling, because they have not offered any evidence to refute the charges. They are whining about the process and saying "well he did it too" rather than offer any facts. The first hand witnesses they claim are missing were blocked by the House in the first place.
We know the outcome already, but the truth and the evidence will come out in a drip drip fashion in the coming months. History will not judge them kindly.
1
Whatever one believes about Mr. Trump's guilt of innocence on the charges presented. the idea that an impeachment, even if it led to removal, is an attempt to subvert the election is nonsense. First, all the alleged crimes occurred after the election was over and done with. Second, impeachment applies to any holder of public office, elected or appointed. Most of the impeachments, and all of the removals, have been on judges. Equally, Mr. Nadler's remarks concerning cheating in an election are equally irrelevant, as none of the charges concern any alleged election fraud.
It is very difficult to believe that the election or anything else for that matter is the truth. It has always been the strategy of this President and many in the Republican party to spin the facts and conceal the truth. Trump is a side show.
Face it: Republican Senators don't have the moral courage to consider in an impartial way all the relevant documents and witnesses as they fear the rath of Trump and the base he controls. As Adam Shiff said, if they don't hold Trump accountable at a minimum for his obstruction of Congress' Article 1 Constitutional right of oversight of the Executive branch and sole power of impeachment, then it effectively voids the balance of power and the impeachment provision envisioned by the drafters of our Constitution. Trump and future presidents will now know they are free to do whatever they want and if Congress then wants to investigate, they simply refuse to provide documents and witnesses . Thus like Trump future presidents can abuse their power and Congress could not investigate or impeach. It's very discouraging to see a Senate that has surrendered its co-equal power and Senators whose fear of losing their job outweighs doing what is right.
1
Here's where we stand.
The evidence is absolutely overwhelming that Trump withheld military assistance to extort a smear on Biden.
And, in the absence of the obstruction of Congress, there would be even more evidence.
We have this on video directly from Trump. There is no question about it. Not even a shadow of a doubt.
So, the Defense will be built on lies and distortions. There is no other way they can defend him, because he's guilty.
How do they keep the base in line? A mastery of identity politics abetted by the reality that Fox isn't really covering the facts proving Trump's guilt.
1
Of course the Republicans want to "tear up the ballots." Over 3 million more American voters voted for Hillary Clinton than for Donald Trump. Anywhere in the world except 3rd world dictatorships and Republican controlled electoral College votes Hillary Clinton would be President. But the Republican controlled Electoral College invalidated the will of the voters.
"Tear up all of the ballots" is exactly the desired outcome of the Constitution's impeachment clause. That clause is there to effect a change, an honorable and intelligent change that becomes necessary because things happen between elections. Sometimes those things are bad acts by someone who is, yes, in office because of "ballots."
Or in this case mostly not because of ballots, given that more ballots were cast for the other candidate. That is a form of tearing up of ballots that the Trump Team adores.)
As to bad acts, the Constitution authorizes Congress to evaluate the proof of the facts, first to impeach, and second to remove from office.
Not in the Founders wildest dreams was there an actor so bad that he, though elected (duly or not), would successfully suppress the facts to prevent Congress from exercising its Constitutional responsibility.
The electoral college provision in Article II - and the ~77,000 ballots that gave a different electoral college result than the popular vote - have had their day. Now we turn to Congress's powers in Article I.
The only people doing any unConstitutional tearing up are the President, his defense team, and all the lock-step Senators who go along. May they not get along in the future.
FISA, dossiers, surveillance, Mueller, impeachment....
We have never had a single person give tangible reasons why they have repeatedly tried to remove Donald Trump since the day he became the R candidate?
Is it simply because he could and did defeat Hillary Clinton?
Is it because he is not an insider life-long politician?
Is it because he threatens the comfort of the status quo of the elites and bureaucrats?
Is it because his successes could prove 35 years of Establishment solutions have been wrong?
Is it because they need to follow the crowd?
It would be valuable for all of us to hear the real reason.
Great job Adam Schiff. And his "head on a pike" comment was right on as the cowardice of the Republican party is glaringly apparent. Months ago I suggested that he be on the Democratic ticket as vice president to Joe Biden. But he apparently wasn't interested or he would have run and suffered through the debates. I now think he is more effective right where he is - an effective, patriotic, stellar congressman representing one of the districts in my state. He is a prime example of what a representative of the people should be. I guess he was born two centuries too late.
1
This isn’t even about a serious discussion of whether any of this warrants removal from office.
The ultimate goal of this exercise by the GOP is the complete acquittal of Trump, without finding any fault, and an official declaration of “He’s done nothing wrong”
We all know Trump’s lack of self control and how he’s going to weaponize this outcome, but that doesn’t seem to worry the GOP one bit.
This will be remembered as the nation’s first impeachment trial where the President is a actually emboldened and enabled to continue violating his oath of office.
This might be the nations last impeachment trial.
1
The president's lawyer argues that the House managers are "partisan witch-hunters trying to remove him from office because they could not beat him at the ballot box."
First, they did "beat him at the ballot box," but Trump's lawyers count on low-information voters not knowing or not caring about Trump's 3,000,000 popular vote loss and being credulous to disinformation.
Second, if self-serving motives exist among the Dems, they are irrelevant --- yes, irrelevant: verdicts must rest upon relevant facts, and the House managers' states of soul is not a fact relevant to charges of abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. Facts are non-partisan even when people are partisan.
I doubt that many Americans believe that Adam Schiff's passion is pure vindictiveness rather than genuine concern about harm done to our global reputation and to our own political institutions, national security, and environment.
Who was that ancient Roman lawyer and senator who advised lawyers to attack the opposition when they have no defense against the charges? The ad hominem fallacy may be a transparent ploy of the guilty, but it resonates with those who do not want to deal with unpleasant facts.
You know who tore up the ballots that got Nixon elected? Nixon did. Right after he was gone Congress passed the Impoundment Control act to control Presidential Fiscal (Unconstitutional) overreach. They knew it was an important law- that is WHY they passed it. Every President since then has followed the law- EXCEPT our current office holder. Is he special or above the law? He has publicly confessed that his actions (Which he had tried to conceal.) violated this law. The Senate took an Oath to protect the Constitution. Exactly what convoluted algorithm is at play here? If they don't vote to impeach they need to rescind that law because, by default, they already did.
1
I am now of the opinion that no Republican should vote for witnesses. Without witnesses we do not have a legitimate trial. Without a legitimate trial we will not have a legitimate acquittal.
We know what happened. The case has been meticulously laid out. All the lawyering by Trump’s attorneys can’t change the truth.
We know what Bolton meant when he referred to the “drug deal”.
Any other witnesses will be blocked by Trump for whatever length of time to outlast the election before the judiciary can rule. All this does is prove the second article of impeachment.
Trump can tweet threats to Adam Schiff, but when Schiff talks about a White House staffer threatening Republicans with “head on a pike” comments, a few Republicans protest as they clutch their pearls.
Donald Trump’s future is in the hands of the good people of this country come November and whether or not the election will be conducted fairly.
Cippilone summarized the overriding democrat strategy for the past 3 years perfectly, negating the 2016 election. Having failed at that, they are now trying to influence the next for their own benefit. In other words, they are engaging in the same activity they have impeached the president for. The irony may be lost on the House managers and their democrat colleagues but one suspects that the presidents defense team will make certain that it isn't lost on the electorate whose votes they've tried to usurp.
Comments here demonstrate President Trump is like ‘climate change’ to many progressives...there is no denying everything about him is bad for them, and there can be no good coming from his effects...and the 2020 election is their ‘tipping point’ for a calamitous Trump second term, where their world comes crashing down.
It is going to be quite a spectacle in November.
For those who think the next election should solve the trump problem: consider this, if an employee was destroying your company’s reputation, would you wait until his next review before dismissing him?
"Radically different view of the facts?" How about Trump's attorneys' perjure themselves right in the presence of the Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court John Roberts. Never in the history of legal jurisprudence in American history has there been testimony with such a blatant disregard for the truth in such a way on such a momentous occasion. And Senate Republicans are complicit in Donald Trump's high crimes and misdemeanors reading books, playing video games, and otherwise ignoring the sacred oath they took before these proceedings.
1
This impeachment is going as well as the Mueller report. Remember that? Another example of wasted time, money and effort by the democrats. If only this much effort had been put into positive local changes which the democrats could have run on to energize voter turnout. Instead they still have nothing but getting Trump as their platform. I really feel let down and ashamed that I continued to vote democratic for so long. I should have gone independent years ago and the only hope for this nation is for more voters to leave both parties.
I think the democratic response to the republican charge that the democrats want to undo the last election is to suggest that the republicans want trump to cheat again. Perhaps in the Q & A part of the trial they could ask every republican senator to say yes or no if they want trump to cheat again, and if no, what they intend to do to stop him.
I think the democratic response to the republican charge that the democrats want to undo the last election is to suggest that the republicans want trump to cheat again. Perhaps in the Q & A part of the trial they could ask every republican senator to say yes or no if they want trump to cheat again, and if no, what they intend to do to stop him.
I think the democratic response to the republican charge that the democrats want to undo the last election is to suggest that the republicans want trump to cheat again. Perhaps in the Q & A part of the trial they could ask every republican senator to say yes or no if they want trump to cheat again, and if no, what they intend to do to stop him.
The Vietnam War draft dodger and the emasculated Republican Party pull out all the stops through the White House attorneys' extremely oversimplification of "alternative facts." Cherry picking? Selective identification of events? These lawyers' resorting to such pedestrian tactics in denigrating and maligning the exceptionally well organized presentation of materially relevant evidence and compelling legal arguments by the House managers is woefully lacking in merit. In other words, their vain arguments are tantamount to the pot calling the kettle black. The comprehensive presentation by House Manager Adam Schiff and his diverse co-managers accurately and convincingly layout the facts and events that precede and follow the alleged 25 July 2019 "perfect call." Those facts are irrefutable. Independently corroborated by percipient witness testimony, many who defied White House threats, substantiates the basis for the impeachment articles. Absolute invocation of executive privilege would consume many months, years, of federal litigation. The executive seeks to nullify Article I as the Framers explicitly embodied within the Constitution. GOP senators need to place America over party. Show some guts. None have the courage of the late Democratic Senators Wayne Morse and Ernest Greuning who defied LBJ by voting against the 1964 Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. Both suffered political retribution but they placed America over party. They were patriots!
To all Republican supporters who work for a living and believe the DJT impeachment rebuttal started on Saturday:
Please read the Constitution before you speak. The election is not undone. Read history and go back to when Richard Nixon resigned. Was the Nixon election undone or did his vice president, Gerald Ford become president? I'll save you some time - Gerald Ford, Nixon's Republican Vice President became president.
If for no other stated rationales, since treason has not been entertained, promoting lies/conspiracy theories about the content of the Constitution or causing necessary regulations to be eliminated or encouraging/supporting groups that support racial, religious, sexual, ethnic animosities, fattening his own wallet, support impeachment. Finally, using Congressional dollars so as to support the investigation of a private citizen political rival is without a doubt fully documented. Again, who can forget DJT's bragging regarding the evidence he is holding on to which he refuses to release as directed by Congress.
How could anyone ask for more documentation of a failed DJT presidency. The stock market measures how people feel about business and the unemployment statistics follow folks for only 26 weeks after losing a job. So where are the real and true 'economic gifts' of DJT which 90% of Americans require?
I recommend we head over to fox news and post (factual?) responses in the comments section, as well as to Donalds twitter accounts.
To get the biggest payoff, sort according to best and reply to the top comments - thereby helping the exposure.
Facts may make a difference to a few. A few may add up to a lot, or possibly enough to swing a state or two.
It's not too far from November - so if you can convince one person, we have a chance to oust donald from his throne.
1
All of the evidence that the house has presented and the evidence that has come to light since the vote to impeach clearly indicate trump’s guilt. I have watched 90% of the proceedings and have read both conservative and liberal reports. If the president was honestly (well, not exactly a word he is familiar with) interested in proving his guilt, he would call for witnesses and documents to be made available to the senate. Even more disturbing is the hysterical tweet quoted in this article. Are these the words of a man worthy to be the leader of our country? Apparently gop senators think so. How sad - and scary!
1
While Trump threatened a trade war with China (that Americans paid for at the grocery store and more), his company did a secret deal to build a golf course there. If republicans are in on the deal and set to gain financially from this, what other deals did trump procure that republicans are cashing in on? is this why they refuse to vote against him, they need him in power four more years for more deals and financial gains personally? he really is their gravy train. They need to cover for their own sins and decisions to use the oval for personal gain. Ivanka and Jared have netted 80 million being in the oval. How does this affect republicans? trump managed to get jared in the house even though he failed every security vetting level. will this continue for another four years and if so, how does this affect the country? just about everything jared is in charge of has failed.
No Mr President, even in your wildest dreams you don't get to make the rules. And no,the Impeachment process set-up by the Founders didn't include in your words, "Rigging the system"against a sitting a President. That wasn't an argument that held water with the Impeachment of two of your immediate predecessor in the Oval Office-Fellow Republican Richard Nixon or later, Democratic President Bill Clinton.
So Mr. President, unless your true motivation in attempting to disrupt the process of securing our nation from what our Founders called "High crimes and misdemeanors" emanating from an out of control Oval Office, is to cast doubt on the wisdom of our People in supporting our Democratic form of government for the past 250 years (in favor of instituting a dictatorship), than it's time to answer for your Administration's behavior in the format set-up for just such a juncture in history, by our invoiable Constitution. In other words-It's time to pay the Piper.
The most horrific tweet this am Jan 25 by the Potus describing our government representatives calling “shifty Schiff etc.,etc. should be read by every individual in our country. It demonstrates essentially his feelings about anyone opposed to his will. All newspapers should meet to publish this tweet as a headline in each paper and the news media should do the same. The atrocities of Trump should sink into the consciousness of all by a forceful intervention such as I am suggesting. Our government will not stop him and I am asking you to consider this action.
1
That's right, the Democrats are trying to undo the 2016 election, which means that if they can remove Trump, Hillary Clinton will become president. Oh, wait a minute. If they undo Trump, won't Mike Pence become president? How can you undo an election if you end up with a Republican in the White House?
1
Impeachment has nothing to do with subverting an election. That's like saying that a Board of Directors appointed a company chairman, and they can't remove him if he is found embezzling funds, until his contract is over.
Impeachment is an essential part of the Constitution, which foresaw the need to be rid of an incompetent or criminal President. The election would hold: Pence would become President.
This makes no sense.
Public cluelessness to modern warfare technology is a serious problem. Those hypersonic missiles you reported about here fly so fast they create an ionic shield around themselves like re-entering spacecraft, so they cannot receive self-destruction instructions once launched.
"...tearing up the ballots.." is totally irrelevant to DJT's innocence or guilt. Why would removal of DJT from office mean "tearing up the ballots" in November? How would his removal prevent people from still voting for him? Couldn't, and wouldn't, his base still vote for him, if they wanted to? Distract, deflect. Like Adam Schiff says, "attack the prosecution"—is no defense of DJT.
1
OK, if their defense is that Democratic accusers are trying to remove him from office because they could not beat him at the ballot box, How do they respond to the fact that 3 million ballots for Clinton were "torn up" when the electoral college voted for Trump?
1
Trump shoots someone on Fifth Avenue in front of 100 witnesses.
Trump insists that none of the 100 witnesses may testify, but the House of Represents gets sworn testimony from 20 of the witnesses who testified UNDER OATH that Trump shot someone on Fifth Avenue. Republicans in the House cross examined those witnesses and those witnesses were unimpeachable.
Then the Senate takes over and the Republicans insist that there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE that Trump did anything wrong and anyway even if Trump did shoot someone on Fifth Avenue, he is legally allowed to shoot them because he is president.
Susan Collins says the Democrats just don't like Trump and that's the only reason they care about Trump shooting someone on Fifth Avenue. Collins says that maybe Trump should not have shot someone on Fifth Avenue but since she didn't hear from 80 witnesses who Trump won't let testify, Sen. Collins believes that her "duty" is to ignore the 20 witnesses who saw Trump shoot someone in front of them. Collins insists the 80 witnesses that Trump won't allow to testify "might" exonerate Trump. Sen. Murkowski agrees with Sen. Collins because maybe all 20 witnesses who saw it are lying. And Trump should be allowed to do what he wants anyway.
Mitch McConnell and William Barr say Trump could legally shoot 1,000 people on Fifth Avenue cause of "Executive power".
3
It seems to me the the presidents lawyers are not defending trump
They are appealing to the presidents base in order to intimidate any senator that might consider prosecuting the president. Otherwise their argument that because people voted for Trump , he shouldn’t be able to be removed from office . This makes no sense.
The People elected the Representatives in the House in November 2018 and, on a majority vote, the House has impeached the President. This is not a "partisan" withhunt but the People's will. It is that November 2018 election that is trampled on here and disrespected by the Senate Republicans paying with toys while the People's Representatives are presenting the evidence gathered, notwithstanding the obstruction of Congress.
As a lawyer, I am truly amazed that the White House counsels are not defending the Presidency and the Constitution but the current individual occupying the office with such nonsensical arguments. An impeachement is necessarily directed towards an ELECTED president...
1
Had the ability to be shocked beyond measure not been decimated repeatedly since Trump took office, this would be yet another jaw dropping moment of unbelievability in American history. There’s hard copy record of the POTUS enlisting his personal attorney to engineer a false smear campaign against an active US Ambassador, and to do so for the purposes of being able to pressure a foreign country into investigating POTUS’s primary political opponent. And, POTUS is almost certainly going to skate on it.
Those two things - even if the most wild eyed charitable interpretation of everything else is offered - simply can’t be rationally defended no matter how hard one squints or contorts their logic. The letter Giuliani sent to Zelensky states explicitly that Giuliani is representing Trump as a private citizen, not as POTUS. And Trump can be seen and heard repeatedly giving taxpayer funded resources to Giuliani to do Trump’s ‘private citizen’ biddings. And the testimony and hard copy evidence of the smear propaganda file on Yovanovich shows explicitly the POTUS’s henchmen were actively sowing fake news within their own state department..... about one of their own employees.
Anyone supporting this should think long and hard about their country. Is there really any chance this kind of blind loyalty in the face of such egregious action isn’t going to have long term, crippling impact on the health of our body politic?
Mr. Baker writes that the Senate trial “has come to encapsulate the pitched three-year struggle that has consumed Washington since [Trump] took office...” No, Mr. Baker, the trial is about specific actions that Trump undertook that resulted in abuse of his power and his obstruction of Congress. To suggest otherwise only supports claims that this is fundamentally party-vs-party antagonism, that House Democrats have no legitimate case against Trump. Don’t sensationalize the conflict at the expense of the merits of the case.
Um even all the ballots were torn up, Trump still lost by three million votes.
Why doesn't this article address the important issues presented
by Patrick Philbin, legal counsel
for the President regarding the authority needed by a vote by the house of the whole House to try impeachment? No vote to exercise the power of impeachment as has been true
historically?
1
A dilemma is trying to choose what is worse. Subverting an election or subverting the Constitution?
We know the 2016 election was subverted by Russian interference, social media issues, voter suppression, and the archaic and undemocratic Electoral College.
Since becoming President, Trump has ignored the rule of law, the US Constitution, and what is in the best interests of most Americans.
The only issue, is did Trump threaten to withhold aid to Ukraine, unless they announced an investigation into Joe Biden?
Proof of obstruction of justice (2nd impeachment article) by DJT is obvious and overwhelming. DJT still refuses to obey the Constitution in matters of Congressional oversight by the House. Where are the documents and witnesses to show the innocence of DJT? By not providing documents and witnesses the White House has defied the Constitution. The House of Representatives is a separate and co-equal branch of government. The House did their job. Any Senator who votes not to convict on this count is not capable of legislating or knowing truth from falsehood. Any Republican Senators who does not vote to convict DJT is denying the reality that the next President (whoever they are) will not have to work with Congress or listen to them. How selfish the Republican Senators seem by putting politics and party over their country and constituents. Chaos is coming to our government and country if DJT is not convicted. No election is being undone by impeachment, DJT should be convicted of high crimes and misdemeanors because of the overwhelming evidence of his underlying crimes.
These guys are attorneys? Did they take Constitutional Law in law school?
An impeachment isn’t close to “tearing up the ballots”. They know the difference, of course. But, like so many other Trump supporters, they just don’t care.
1
They didn't mount a defense of Mr. Trump's actions. They mounted a new conspiracy theory that claims the election is being "undone". It's kind of embarrassing.
"Radically different view of facts?" Why can't the media just call it as it is -- plain and clear as day? They're purposeful, blatant lies, not different views.
1
There is only one way the corruption and ugliness of this President will ever be checked: he has to be voted out of office by the part of America that still holds itself to a higher standard. The Republicans and those who put Trump in office have made it abundantly clear that they condone, if not passionately embrace, who he is and everything he does. They will not even criticize him, let alone impeach him. November of 2020 will determine if there’s still enough decency in America to demand better than this. If not, as Adam Schiff portended, we truly are lost.
Now it's okay to lie to the US Senate. Trump's legal team set the precedent and Senate Republicans approve.
The White House, the president’s lawyers and the president himself have obstructed justice consistently, daily, and without remorse. They have defiled all that America stands for and will continue to defy the rule of law and the American people as long as they’re able to get away with it. If for no other reason this is why Donald Trump needs to be removed from office by any legal means necessary.
Joe Biden already released 3 years of tax returns - maybe he should offer to testify when the Trump does the same.
This impeachment trial is exhausting and going nowhere. He will not be impeached. Can we focus on real issues like the crippling student loan debts or homelessness or child trafficking?
The headline is misleading. Republicans and the Trump impeachment team are not focused on facts. Indeed facts are basically irrelevant to them.
I watched the lawyers for Trump and the one who's supposed to be representing the White House yesterday. I thought they were just getting warmed up and were going to each take a turn then tell us what their case was. Instead they ended it and their news media stooges trumpeted that the trial was over and they won.
If any Republican takes what they said yesterday and votes to acquit, they are in violation of their oath. These lawyers are going to have to do a whole lot more lawyering to prevent the public from convicting the Republican caucus in the Senate of a coverup.
The Republicans claim that this impeachment is all about undoing the 2016 election. Not so. When Trump was inaugurated, he had every chance to rise to the occasion that the voters entrusted to him and become a decent president, if nothing more. As a Democrat, I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt even though I had them. He squandered that opportunity in the worst possible way, sinking even lower than I could have imagined. If Hillary Clinton were president and done the same things, I would be calling for her impeachment. All of the ugly and vulgar things he says, all of the lies (unless done under oath), the slander of people, the disaster of his foreign policy, his philandering, all of the glaring evidence of ignorance and his unfitness for office - were not impeachable. We pay the price for that. But this Ukraine scandal clearly is. That's why our Founders inserted the procedure. The Constitution does not say that you cannot impeach a president in an election year or during his first term. The impeachment power is there so that the people don't have to wait for 4- year election cycles to remove him if his conduct is an abuse of power on a level of an absolute monarch or dictator.
The Republican attorneys put to rest one of the articles of impeachment, obstruction. As they pointed out. Schiff's committee was not authorized by the House to issue subpoena's to anybody or for any document. Case closed on that one. As for abuse of power, what a stretch. No witnesses. No quid pro quo. The object of the supposed quid pro quo didn't even know he was being pressured at all. It's a terrible case and the vote will be not guilty and only the Democrats will feel it's a bad verdict. The rest of America will just be glad it's over.
All these GOP sellouts to our country that are willing to so blatantly lie and humiliate themselves for the benefit of one obviously deficient man-child may not care about thier own reputations.
But I often wonder if they care about thier family and friends, both living and posterity, who will have to bear the shame through association.
This whole thing will be a historical case study in the frailties of human behavior.
2
I am staunchly Democratic and anti-Trump, but I would still like to hear a rational explanation for how and why an unqualified Hunter Biden got a high paying job in the Ukraine.
1
Any vote in an American election is an endorsement of our Constitution, which clearly lays out the power of the legislative branch to remove a president for high crimes and misdemeanors. Republican charges that invoking those powers owes to a desire to invalidate an election are treasonous.
Distract, obfuscate and lie. Trump’s lawyers are using the same techniques as the President himself, to try to give Republican Senators any excuse to vote against the obvious.
There is no such plausible excuse, as removing this most dishonest, corrupt and unfit of Presidents is not a nullification of the last election. It is an action to protect the integrity of the next one.
"Let the people decide!"
This was the excuse McConnell used to steal a Supreme Court seat. Now, it's being used to exonerate extortion committed by the President. What will it be used for next? It will be used to get rid of term limits after Trump rigs and steals the next election.
Mark my words, this exactly where the GOP is headed in using this fatuous and self-serving hypocritical argument. And I say hypocritical, because the GOP has done everything in it's power to ensure that the people don't get a say. Well, to be more precise, they have done everything in their power to ensure that only "their people" have a say.
It things had really been left up to "the people", the majority of the people, then this country would have been spared the Reign of Error of George W. Bush, and the Hoax of a President Donald J. Trump.
3
most of this morning I have been listening to CNN who often has credible journalists from the NYT as guest panelists. While listening to many of the reports it can't escape the people that there is no defense for Donald Trump, he is guilty of wrongdoing, yet due to his defense team who are arguing his case and the lack of ethics and integrity of the senate majority run by Mitch McConnell who might as well basque in this corrupt victory as he will most likely lose his seat while several other Republicans will need to find a new path in life, one which surely will not reward their despicable conduct presented to not only the American People but to the world. I will reiterate that these Defense lawyers will not find peace or prosperity after Donald Trump has maybe not now but soon been ousted from the Presidency for their part in this sham. The nerve of any one of the Senators not wishing to fulfill their oath of office yet they state how much they love their families, truly? for generations to come the stain of the ignorance of these elected officials will follow their bloodlines forever and though these senators may state they don't care about how history portrays them I guarantee the shame the families will feel will be real, then they state the love of a country that they represent no, they represent themselves, they are cowards not fit for this battle yet many Americans will determine their futures, to feign contempt of Adam Schiff's remarks is to cover their ineptness.
Cippolone: "They’re here...to perpetrate the most massive interference in an election in American history..."
That is nonsense, and irrelevant to the matter at hand.
Cipollone: "They have the burden of proof...and they have not come close to meeting it.”
That is so irrational that it makes one wonder about Cippolone's mental state.
Cippolone's goals is "to provide enough fodder to Senate Republicans already inclined to acquit him."
That is simply going through the motions, because Republicans already told the world that they are not going to remove Trump from office. Period.
What's frustrating is that there is nothing that we can do about it. Republicans are demonstrating that they alone will choose the laws that they follow.
They are also granting Trump the unrestricted freedom to dictate the laws that everyone else will follow.
But why SHOULD the government agencies, the military, and the citizens be required to follow Trump's legal dictates, when he and the Republicans continue to distort, dismiss, and defy the law??
This "trial" is only the beginning. We are about to experience one outrageous abuse of power after another, including meddling with the November election. The implications are alarming.
1
The core of the Trump defense seems to be that there was no quid pro quo, because of the timing issue. And if no quid pro quo then the democrats case is demolished. To my mind the timing of when the Ukrainians learned of the hold is totally irrelevant. The president of the United States asks for a favor. Several weeks later you learn of the hold. Oh shucks, what do we do? What does it all mean?? Could they be connected??? Quid. Pro. Quo. Any clear thinking person can see the forces at work here. And so, since the quid pro quo is actually exceedingly obvious, I feel that the defense actually just demolished their own case by digging into the issue with their paper thin analysis. No quid pro quo=innocence! therefore, quid pro quo= guilt? Works for me.
1
What about this? Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer or another Democratic Senator publicly asks a foreign country to investigate Trump and one of his sons.
How fast do you think the Republicans would decide that’s an impeachable offense?
1
Thank heavens that Trump's attorneys are now on board. Finally some sanity! I couldn't stand to look at that shifty Schiff any longer nor that creepy Nadler. And Pelosi needs to retire.
1
"President’s Lawyers Give Radically Different View of Facts."
I disagree. They don't even use facts!
1
The Democrats produced false and inaccurate information making it easy to thwart with a different perspective. Skill is hitting the target - and that is what the Republicans are and will do. Trump will be re-elected in 2020 and a large part of the reason is their underhanded techniques and refractory hatred of our President. Both things they would never tolerate were the circumstances reversed.
2
With the expose of Trump's tirade about getting rid of the Ukraine ambassador, I think I now see the connection between Rex Tillerson's `firing' and the whole Ukraine business. Does his departure match the timeline for this mess? He was one of the only `honest' members of Trump's original cabinet (along with the Defense secretary).
Considering who their client is, and the ease with which he lies and distorts facts, I doubt his lawyers are familiar with the truth either.
They should probably all be disbarred for their own knowable lies, and for lying to the American public. That they have decided not to directly answer any of the proofs presented by House managers, but rather misrepresent and twist that evidence, does great dishonor to our country.
Shameful is certainly not a strong enough adjective to describe them and their client who is a thug and conman. Thanks to the thesaurus, despicable, deplorable and contemptible are much more accurate.
2
President’s lawyers and Senate Republicans are also guilty of obstruction of justice
1
The Senate must stink to high heaven by now with all the red herrings the defense team has begun throwing around the sacrosanct halls. They only used two hours because they had nothing of substance to offer. They're whipping up
Did the prosecution's side mention getting Trump off the 2020 ballot? I listened to hours of their case and never heard that assertion. Nor did I hear them suggest ripping up the ballots from the 2016 election either, even though that election was much interfered with by Russia.
The defense is offering nothing but herring. They offered no evidence to prove that Trump did not withhold funds from Ukraine because he wanted Americans to believe Ukraine had information that Joe Biden's son was up to no good when on the board of a business in Ukraine. They talked about all the help Trump has given to Ukraine but that Europe, which is closer to Ukraine than our country is, has not given as much help. That may be true, but it has nothing to do with the facts of the prosecution's case.
Trump withheld funds form Ukraine in order to mislead the voting public about Biden because he looked like the candidate that the Democrats would run against him. And in order to keep the truth from surfacing, Trump obstructed the prosecution from getting documents and witnesses in order to prove their case. I don’t know what other kinds of fish the defense will toss around to dispute the facts. I DO know, though, that their defense is just about as misleading as Trump is.
2
Next time I get pulled over..
Judge: you were caught doing 85 in a 65 while texting
Me: The State is out to get me
Judge: the radar had you at 85
Me: radar just wants to revoke my driving privileges
Judge: the officer followed you reaching speeds of 85 mph
Me: that officer was out to get me. I was driving perfect. Straight and in between the lines
Officer: well you did hit the rumble strip...
Me: that’s because the pacing company is out to get me
Officer: there’s video evidence
Me: that camera was made in China and knows I’m anti communist.
Republican Senators: no more evidence needed. Not guilty.
4
I think the democrats should just let the republicans call the witnesses they want. Hunter, Joe, Hillary, whatever. If there is nothing to hide the republicans will look like fools questioning these people in their Benghazi furor. I guess it would not help Bidens campaign, but him taking the risk and defending his record and the empty scandal the republicans create could be his strongest way to serve the country, then let Bernie shift the socialist handouts from the .1% to the rest of us.
1
That is precisely what the Democrats are asking The Senate to do.
The Trump “presidency” in an ongoing criminal (and treasonous) enterprise. It’s no surprise his legal defense reflects that.
1
If the Democrats and Republicans have different views, of course we remember that Democrats have been challenging Trump’s election since day one, so the Republicans must be right. No person in the Obama Administration ever tried to dig up dirt on Trump. No one paid a foreign spy to fabricate false information.m. No one in the FBI said that they would make sure to get him out of office once he had won. No one asked that Trump be impeached even before he was sworn in. No media personnel ever lamented about Hillary, “But we did everything we could to get her elected”. (CNN) So Trump wants to know who his enemies are. What a surprise.
Trump's defence lawyers may do a good job convincing him in private and be his yes man. But in public their fervour oftens runs out of steam.
Yesterday, his defence lawyers argued that he had valid reasons for withholding military aid from Ukraine, saying his conversation with President Volodymyr Zelensky reflected his “legitimate concerns about corruption” in Ukraine.
How laughable! It’s like pot calling the kettle black. They should put their own house in order before criticising Ukraine.
1
The Bible offers sound advice for Republicans facing difficult choices: Ephesians 5: "The things which are done in secret are things that people are ashamed to even speak of; but anything illuminated turns into light."
Your political party and your GOP Senate have taken a dark path, just like your president. It's not good for you, for him, or, for our country. Moreover, I think you can see that he'll never get his 'Big Boy Pants' pulled up, no matter what he does. Truth.
What is the NY Times definition of "moderate"? Those so call "moderate" senators of the Republican Party supported all the policies of Donald Trump: nomination of ultra-conservative and theocratic judges (including the two ones on the Supreme Court) , destruction of protections for workers, destruction of environment protection,... The term "phony" should be used instead for describing them.
The pathetic and embarrassing defense offered by the Trump defense team amounted to malpractice. To argue that the 2016 election means that impeachment is impossible reveals either the same disregard for the Constitution as their client or ignorance of it. The Framers added it to protect us against corrupt autocrats like Donald Trump. To claim that Trump was concerned about corruption demonstrates additional malpractice in either misrepresenting the readout of his phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky or not having read it. And if Trump was so focused on anti-corruption why was ho so determined to replace our foremost anti-corruption advocate in Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch by saying “Get rid of her.” Trump was only interested in potential corruption by former Vice President Joe Biden and only one company, Burisma Holding, where is son, Hunter Biden was a board member. Moreover, he broke a number of laws to bribe Ukraine to do this by illegally withholding military aid authorized by Congress and approved by his Defense Department and illegally attempting to keep the whistleblower’s complaint from Congress as required.
2
What the Republican “defense” comes down to is how many times and in how many different ways they can say, “oh, yeah”, in 24 hours.
The numbing impact of such demagoguery spilling out of the mouths of Sekulow, Cipollone, Derswoschiz, Giuliani,most Republicans in Congress and others clearly indicates a need to improve civics education in the country. In the future, perhaps such educational improvements, along with enhancement of critical thinking skills can prevent another demagogue from controlling the most powerful office in the nation.
The impeachment proceedings grow more and more surreal. Trump's lawyers scream that "there are no first hand witnesses!" and then refuse to allow first hand witnesses to testify! Mitch McConnell, the most profoundly corrupt senator since Joseph McCarthy, may look like a silly old woman, but he is a ruthless political thug in reality. Swilling the public with an unabashed barrage of disinformation, he is determined to keep things moving fast in hopes that the public loses focus and hope. We are in a land so corrupt that even Orwell could not have imagined it. Venezuela looks good by comparison.
5
Most Americans voted against Trump. Those ballots didn't count
No surprise here. Anyone that has to defend a pathological liar who's committed blatant and transparent extortion is, out of necessity, going to have to lie through their teeth. But, that's what Trump's entire defense team is known for are they not? They're the highest paid lairs we've got.
All this shows not how low Trump has fallen, but how low the American people have fallen with their complacency.
1
"Radically different view of the facts" is a euphemism for "alternative facts."
2
Why not let "the voter decide" when the system allows a loser like Donald Trump, or George W. Bush, to become the winner?
When Trumps lead attorney Pat Cipollone when on an extended attack rant about the a Democratic manager bringing up "Lawyer Lawsuits" when she had actually referred to FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) law suits, somewhere Emily Littella as voiced by Gilda Radner is smiling.
1
Seemingly, Donald Trump’s lawyers are not stupid (unlike him) so must know, better than ordinary citizens, that he is guilty; that he is evil; that he is dangerous.
Yet they defend him, to the extreme detriment of the country.
We have to marvel at the human ability to rationalize whatever is in one’s own interest.
What can be their motivations?
- Money?
- Power?
- Recognition, attention (Alan Dershowitz)?
- Extreme partisanship?
- Religious fanaticism (Pasquale Cipollone, Opus Dei member hoping for another Supreme Court vote to overturn Roe)?
- Perceived intellectual challenge, and desire to win at all costs?
It’s mystifying.
4
If the Republicans goal is to teach us that facts don't matter, that trials are a farce, conducted without evidence or witnesses, that a country should be run by a a man who lies, and bullies, and has absolutely no interest in this countries welfare, they proving that case beyond a doubt. I am sick of being deceived by this group, and I hope the rest of the nation is, too.
So why is it then, if Congress’ case is so patently bogus, the President’s team are so petrified of hearing testimony and examining documents? One might think it is merely more grist for the mill. It appears we are about to see on display, yet again, the myth of the “moderate” republican. In fact they are all bag men for our sociopathic fake president. Hearing once more about the pseudo “moral courage” of a Romney, a Flake or Murkowski is enough to make me hurl.
1
Reality Check key is for american people to demstrate they still believe in american way life.Our representives in office swore oath once they elected . Both partys should swear same oath to american people an serve in good faith. Trail or no trail facts should be set an accounted for . If any one broke there oath to serve in good faith for people .They should be removed from office they hold on account they broke there oath to office .People in real world loose there jobs an familys an alot there life for alot lest,
“...they could not beat him at the ballot box.” Trump lost at the ballot box. He became POTUS because of the electoral college. Your reporting should not err on something this straightforward.
1
Since when has lying become a "radically different view of the facts"?
5
If the Prez gets such joy from tweets calling senators and congresspeople names, don’t you think he’d be mad if they returned the favor? Can Chuck or Nancy or Schiff tweet about Too-Tan Trump? Or Tie-Tape Trump? Pretty please? Don’t call him a liar—that won’t hurt his feelings. But aim at his looks: that’ll work.
I ask Republicans who have a moral compass who has a case here: a man who will not allow witnesses and his team, or those who would put forth witnesses to provide an honest look at actions in Ukraine.
Why won’t you just say the Republicans lied Peter? When you drag it out into this kind of formal discourse it adds credibility to the information Republicans are putting on. When the reality is that the Republicans information has zero credibility, it is lies. They are lying on purpose in an effort to spread propaganda and influence low information voters and you are helping them. You’re part of the problem. You’re helping divide our nation by not identifying fraudulent information when it crosses your desk.
1
Congressman Schiff, with his co-managers, have shown the world, in the words of George Washington, "that a freeman contending for liberty on his own ground is superior to any slavish mercenary."
1
Where is the public outcry? Why are we not planning large scale protests in the face of this horrible justice?
America, where are you?
2
I am so delighted that these pitiful members of the GOP in the
Senate are forced to listen to the irrational defense of
an obvious mentally ill President; they deserve such
torture....: if this continues ; and I am certain these second rate
attorneys will make them squirm...well that is what these
rotten to the core so called Republicans need ….I hope the
trial goes on and on and on....and they will most likely resign.
That is what the outcome might be; resignation of actually
Republicans who are disgusted with the likes of McConnell et al.
2
Trumps attorneys lie just like trump.
2
Waiting for the Trump defense team to assert that President Trump couldn't have pressured Ukraine due to his bone spur condition!
1
I was just reading biographical material on Trump lawyer Alan Dershowitz. He has a long history of defending men who are accused of sexual assault, murder & attempted murder against women (to wit. Klaus von Bulow, Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein (with fellow Trump lawyer Kenneth Starr) and O.J. Simpson before taking on Trump as a client. I recalled that scene in the O. J. trial where O. J. was trying on the blood-stained glove (with a surgical glove on his hand) & Johnny Cochran was chanting, "If the glove don't fit, you must acquit." I suddenly thought to myself, "Who has smaller hands?" Just saying..
Supreme Irony: Dept. "I know you are but what am I?"
You mean it's actually wrong to try to subvert an election?
1
They are using a strategy referred to as DARVO - deny, attack, reverse victim and offender.
1
Wasn't the illegal campaign monies used to pay off Karen McDougal and Steffanie Cifford from divulging potentially damaging trysts before the election enough to bring impeachment proceedings? It was enough to send Cohen to jail. Why was Trump allowed to skate on those?
Now these holier than thou holy rollers in the senate are protecting and defending this immoral lying psychopath.
Remember that all of you in his base when you're defending the indefensible.
“They’re asking you to tear up all of the ballots all across the country on your own initiative, take that decision away from the American people,” Pat A. Cipollone, the White House counsel, said of the House managers.
What they overlook is that the American people voted House Democrats into majority for this very reason - accountability. The actuality is that the three million more people who voted for Clinton had our ballots ripped up, and taking back the House was the recourse.
1
And it's such a revelation to read or watch the Fox News content and their reader's comments (including the Russian troll bots).
We need a connector as a leader....our country's people has more in common than not and we need to reminded of these overlapping values!
Maybe we to think about serving our country through either military or a civilian duty to bring us together again. 18 months after high school in exchange for credits toward college tuition or training in the trades (plumbing or electrical).
1
Anyone defending trump has to begin with this basic premise. He lies, and lies and lies. And these tapes from Parnus are yet another piece of proof of his disgusting behavior & relentless cover-up.
So proving his innocence begins with this fact. He's incapable of telling any truth that goes against his own story or beliefs. Facts don't matter to this man. Only his thoughts. This week, as Schiff predicts, will be about everything trump has lied about without support, without rationale, and without facts.
I will never understand how trump's followers put up with this untrustworthy nonsense. And have the audacity to wear the flag and call themselves Americans. They are there for spectacle.
If there are no witnesses called then the GOP will have aided trump in yet another cover-up of the truth. And I will always believe that it's another day where America's music died.
Keep hyper ventilating all the way to 2024 as the country re elects the most successful president in history.
To my liberal friends which parts of the current national economic boom do you want to reverse?
Democrat mob policy
Higher taxes
Fewer Jobs
Uncontrolled borders
Back to foreigen trade fiasco
Taking away your private health insurance
The president's policy.... Peace and prosperity.... Or Bernie's vision of appeasement and poverty?
When you ask a wild grizzly bear to look after your babies, don't be surprised when they're eaten - the bear is just doing what they naturally do. Its not good, but it is their normal activity.
When Republican Senators and House members blindly support Trump, they are just doing what they naturally do, i.e. ANYTHING to stay in office.
This is NOT the issue. The issue is good people ignoring their corruption. So ...
NYT - call lies, lies. Not alternative facts or alternative views. And have the courage to do it in the headlines and lead paragraphs - not hiding in the Opinion articles.
NYT - call faux outrage over Schiff and Nadler comments for the absurd hypocrisy that it is. And have the courage to do it in the headlines and lead paragraphs - not hiding in the Opinion articles.
NYT - point out and ask why our Chief Justice sits in silence while these lies are told. Lies and other Trump lawyer behavior that would be objected to by opposing counsel and sustained, admonished and stricken from the Court Record by fair judges in fair trials.
NYT - corruption continues when good people (AND MEDIA) either sit by and let it happen, or profit from the web traffic that results from promoting false equivalencies, click-bate articles and other low moral and low integrity journalism.
I LOVE my NY Times. So please, have some courage to stand up for our constitution and this great democratic republic experiment. To quote a recent statesperson "She's worth it".
2
Adam Schiff, with his analytical mind and trustworthiness, should be nominated for President!
3
"President's lawyers give radically different view of facts."
It's called lying.
5
This is utterly apropos for the president of projection.
My very Christian Republican sister explained to me that only God knows the facts! This explains a lot. Humans it seems need not be concerned with facts as God knows all.
2
This is the biggest joke in the history of the republic and frankly I’m embarrassed by the way the media blatantly displays its bias.
I’m astounded at the intellectual dishonesty from the press and their complete refusal to report facts instead opting for the undermining of the constitution for partisan purposes. Shame on you.
1
“asking you to tear up all of the ballots”
What a hoot. Clinton got more votes. We don't the ballots torn up, we want the ballots to COUNT for something real.
Pence is going to go through some things.
1
What a colossal waste of time. The American people will remember this when they hand the House back over to the Republicans in November
1
They, like their boss Trump, told numerous lies.....as expected.
Sekulow and the other lawyers are not interested in the facts. Their purpose is to scramble them and continue to obfuscate. They are part of the right wing Christian Evangelicals (I don’t know how Dershowitz fits in the plan) who are praying for the rapture. Sekulow went to Regent U law school - an institution founded by none other than Pat Robertson.
Let me fix your headline for you: "President's Lawyers Lie."
See? Not hard. It's time to stop acting like "alternative facts" are a real thing. Please - it is your duty as journalists to name this for exactly what it is: lies and prevarication by the President and his legal team.
Are you scared the President will sue you for libel? Last I checked, the truth is a defense to libel in every court in this nation. Have some guts and start calling out this mendacity at every opportunity.
myth: "House is trying to overthrow election."
no such thing.
the president* took office and proceeded to commit crimes and abuses.
the Impeachment is not about the 2016 election it is about subsequent actions by djt.
GOP cannot shoot straight
What a great illumination of how this paper soft pedals criticism of trump and his dishonesty. Two headlines from the current home page.
Anatomy of a Lie, How the Iranian Covered Up the Downing of an Airliner, and Presidents attorneys give radically different view of facts.
How is one a lie and the other radically different view of facts?
Come on.
NYTimes: if it is a proven lie, just say it is a lie and repeat the available evidence proving so. Please no more descriptive niceties like ‘alternative explanations’ that fail to wake up the public to proven facts.
4
First: I had no idea that no House committee can issue a subpoena except in an authorized impeachment setting.
Second: Who knew that the Boehner rules only applied to Tres Gaudy and his Benghazi investigation?
Third: who knew that the Boehner rules only excluded department counsel for investigations into Obama team members?
Forth: Who knew that no member of the Republic Party dared go to the basement hearings because of all the spiders?
Fifth: Just because there is no evidence, you cannot discount Burkina Fasi interference in the 2016 election.
Sixth: The DNC server is buried with Jimmy Hoffa.
Seventh: The Warren Report found no Trump Crime Family collusion with Oswald.
Eighth: Who knew that if the bank president did not know you were planning to rob his or her bank, you cannot be charged for planning the robbery?
"Trump Team, Opening Defense, Accuses Democrats of Plot to Subvert Election"
Today's Washington Post has an article of questions for the republican senators by Jennifer Rubin that I suggest you read, copy some or all of it and email to your republican senators and ask them to answer those questions and remind them that these questions WILL COME UP AGAIN in this falls election run.
SEE: "Trump lawyers’ weak start opens the door to devastating questions"
By: Jennifer Rubin, Opinion writer, Jan. 26, 2020
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/01/26/trump-lawyers-weak-start-opens-door-devastating-questions/
As citizens and voters we have every right to ask these questions of these republican senators and demand answers.
Schiff was right on the money: Donald Trump is a dictator.
Yes, tear. up the ballots. A Hillary pile and a Donald pile. Simultaneously tear up one Hilly ballot and one Donald ballot.
Why are there millions of ballots left in the Hillary pile when the Donald pile is gone?
Trump looks like a beaten man, head down with a too long tie and an ill-fit over coat. He may be going down, "you're fired", everyone can hardly wait, except Pompeo. He is an angry egomaniac without a base.
Lies are not "dramatically different views of the facts." This is Orwellian slippage already done to America and the free press. "Black" is becoming "White" in front of our very eyes. Wake up....truth matters ONLY when it is revealed fully and unblinkingly.
GOP... a person who has been elected president cannot be impeached. Hence impeachment does not exist.
The Orwellian defense.
The Republican enablers and agents are worse than Trump. Trump is ignorant, amoral, pathological, vengeful, childish, and exhibits traits of someone with dementia. He has engaged in corruption, obstruction, and endless lying. He is a danger to the US and the world. The Republicans know this and have twisted themselves into a pretzel defending him at the expense of any code or value system that may once have practiced. No one should ever forget what the Republicans have become, or what Trump has done to them as a catalyst to expose what they have always been.
2
There's no way that Sekulow's hair is real. Just like his folically-challenged colleagues Rudy, McGahn, Ty Cobb. And their boss.
Republicans are "asking you to tear up the US Constitution"
by NOT convicting comrade trump of high crimes and
misdemeanors. Specifically BRIBERY and EXTORTION.
1
“Pat A. Cipollone, the White House counsel, said of the House managers. ‘They’re here to perpetrate the most massive interference in an election in American history.’”
Cipollone you’re wrong! They’re here to legally impeach the election of a likely-tyrant who claims: “Article II allows me [Trump] to do whatever I want!”
1
its "radically" different because for the first time, POTUS can put forward something without clearing with Pelosi/Schiff/Nadler/Demmigs !! what a concept !
The NY Times headline claims that Trump and the Republicans give a "radically different view of facts".
This newspaper has done more damage to the truth than Republicans have done. Corrupt politicians in the Republican party will always lie. But when the NY Times tells its readers that they are absolutely not lying, just offering a different view of the facts, then it is this newspaper that is blatantly lying to its readers.
Shame on you. You call out Iran's lies -- which their leaders eventually corrected -- but in every single news story this newspaper tells readers that Trump and the Republicans are just offering a different view of FACTS. The Republicans are not offering facts at all.
1
I am amused by trump's lawyers treating motivation as fact. Does the Senate think WE THE PEOPLE are dumb? There are, of course, no facts related to motivation. They can only be deduced. That is a guessing game. Facts, however, are revealed by POTUS's own statements, his lies, his ignorance, his crooked behavior, his braggadocio, his unwillingness to learn any facts at all. He is his own downfall, and WE the PEOPLE know it.
1
The CIA operation on the NSC (in the White House) is a threat to our Republic, the American people and the next President after Donald Trump.
Trump is officially above the law. Welcome to dictatorship.
Meanwhile, the dim witted Russian puppet con man could not resist the chance to threaten a congressman, in writing, this morning on Twitter. Get ready for a new impeachment inquiry as soon as the current senate trial concludes.
What planet do Republicans come from? I guess aliens really do live among us.
When talking about Iran, this newspaper runs a headline that says: "ANATOMY OF A LIE"
When talking about impeachment, this newspaper goes to great lengths to never call the blatant lies of the Republicans defending Trump anything but "alternative scenarios" or "alternative facts".
At least the powers in Iran acknowledged their lie. The Republicans, with approval from the NY Times, know they can keep offering "alternative facts" and the NYT will never run a headline calling it a lie.
In this so-called "liberal" newspaper, only Bill and Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry, and Iran get headlines calling them liars. The Republicans just offer an alternative version.
It's interesting that the Iran government could not keep lying, but the Trump administration can. Thanks, Peter Baker, for such good work normalizing lies into "plausible scenarios" and "alternative versions". I'm sure when a Democrat wins, you'll be back to calling even misstatements that are soon corrected as "lies".
One thing the defense knows is to keep things short and simple. Finishing up their opening arguments in two hours was a stroke of genius and provided much needed relief.which even the tired rear ends of the Democrats could be grateful for. In fact I can see the entire Senate “voting” with their feet by walking out en masse during one of Adam Schiff’s endless speeches. I notice he’s trying to lighten up a little, but it’s too late. He’s so verbose it’s almost inhuman.
1
Unlike in nature, flowers will never grow from this manure pile of an Administration. Presidential norms have been trashed, societal values have been mocked, traditions have been manipulated and, above all, pursuit of the truth has been grievously, systematically undermined. This is not surprising, but well expected, when an amoral, deeply flawed individual lacking any character whatsoever sits on the the apex of that pile. Make America Lawless!
If Trump is convicted & must leave office, Pence becomes president. Just how is this a Clinton-led conspiracy to overturn the 2016 election? Irrational defense!
The President's lawyers are liars just like him. The rot on display by the GOP is breathtaking in its audacity because it plays on the premise that most Americans are too dumb to see Trump's and their criminality and corruption even when the evidence of same is presented to them.
Remember when Republicans tried to "overturn" the 1996 election? Why, they were trying to act as if Clinton had never been elected president at all. If he hadn't been acquitted, the Republican Party would have immediately gone straight to the House, plucked the Republican Speaker out of the House and plunked him smack dab into the Oval Office. There certainly wouldn't have been a President Al Gore, because the Republicans wouldn't have allowed that. They were hell-bent on "overturning" the election, remember? Because, according to Republicans, that's what impeachment is. I won't mention the word "hypocrite," because Republicans don't understand the concept behind it.
1
NYT: "President’s Lawyers Give Radically Different View of Facts"
Rational and attentive thinking people: "President’s Lawyers Lie and Obfuscate"
All the President lying sycophants on display. That is country has come to this , falling for a Russian Agent and his corrupted minions. There is no punishment too hard for anyone connected to the traitor.
The "undoing the election" claim is one of the stupidest arguments I've ever seen.
Does that mean if Trump is impeached that all the Executive Order he signed are invalidated? All the bills he signed are no longer law? That Kavanaugh is no longer on the Supreme Court?
If Trump is impeached a different Republican becomes president. That's also a consequence of the election. It doesn't get undone by impeachment.
The impeachment is simply about removing a steaming pile of corruption from the presidency.
How TT (Trump Team) can defend "our" president after the Parnas Tape? How? The tape is a chilling testimony of how corruption at the political level sets the rules not only for "dispatching" the US Ambassador from Ukraine but also for how to get rid of safety rules regarding truck drivers on the road for personal gains of one of Trump's donors! And the "setting" in which this hard to see and hear corruption tape takes place is "uplifting": vases full of multicolor roses, crystal glasses, menus printed in golden letters, as are the dishes with Limoges golden designs and the men (all are men) in jackets of dark color, and all plotting how to benefit themselves screwing all of us among golf chatting and having a great time (laughs are there too to be hear). How TT can defend this president is beyond basic human decency.
1
“Radically different from the facts”.... uhhh, so you mean they are LYING!
No President has ever been convicted by impeachment. Trump won't be the first. Sorry, He is no Andrew Jackson, not even close. Until the pavlovian triggered by Trump Tweets Democrats figure out that a vote for Trump doesn't mean the voter supports Trump, you are going to get an abundance of what you hate for President. Both parties suck, the President who gets our vote is just the lesser of two evils. Historically its been the economy that re elects incumbents not a political dustup.
Trump’s advocates are proposing that political power does nullify the rule of law. What this means is that liberty is completely determined by political power and is not a right of all which is unalienable.
25
According to the latest polls, 50% of Americans want Trump removed from office and 69% want the Senate to call witnesses.When you count the undecided, the numbers favoring Trump are significantly lower.
Republicans have to know it could be dangerous for their re-election chances if they don't at least call witnesses. And everyone else knows witnesses won't be good for Trump. Otherwise he'd call them himself.
The GOP election price to pay says to me it's not a done deal yet that the Senate won't convict.
23
@JimmySerious: Maybe so, but two thirds of the Senators do not face election this year, and the Democrats can't win enough more seats from the senators whose careers are at stake to block filibusters.
The American people should have access to all the information relative to impeachment before the 2020 election--so that they can cast a well informed vote for who they want to be president. The impeachment and trial of Trump is not taking rights away from the voting public but working to obtain the information we need before voting. Getting the information after the 2020 vote is no help at all. By refusing to call witnesses, the Republicans they are not helping the voters, but only tending to their own self-interest.
52
Well-informed vote?
Anybody that hasn’t been able to form an opinion by now should just stay silent.
1
@Diane B
I guess it made no never mind to you that the President wasn’t allowed to have his counsel present during the hearings, and was denied being able to call witnesses, and was even limited as to the questions they were allowed to ask?
On what planet is that fair?
And if these articles provide irrefutable proof that the President did something wrong, why do they need more witnesses?
To start yet another fishing expedition?
Democrats came unprepared. It’s not up to the Republicans to do their bidding.
If they wanted these witnesses, Democrats should have called them.
Takes too long? That’s the process. That’s why we have lawyers, judges, and a system in place.
Seldom in the field of human discussion has so much right-wing hallucination been elevated to this level.
Treasure it, Trumpists, because your high-water mark was sixteen months ago,
48
@Robert: Some very bad stuff seems to be real. That downed Ukraine 737 carried Iran's preeminent students of physics and mathematics.
IFF is an integral part of modern air defense. Everybody knew what airplane that was because it was squawking its ID by transponder.
They did beat him at the ballot box. They're trying to remove him because he's a Russian asset and a criminal. Hope this helps!
67
An impeachment, by definition disavows an election. Did Trump’s defense team think an impeachment was somehow not related to an election?
The reason president Trump has been impeached is because he violated the guidelines set out as an impeachable offense; it has nothing to do with anyone trying to reverse an election, not treating Trump “fairly”, or hating Trump. I don’t hate Trump. He is simply totally unqualified for the job and, in addition commited impeachable offenses.
I wish that Adam Schiff would release the secret information that he has said many times that he has, that proves that Trump was in collusion with the Russians. Why is he holding back? Why aren’t Democrats calling for the release? Let’s get the job done right.
Oh my goodness! A democratic plot?
Why discuss the actual articles of impeachment when you can fly away into conspiracy land?
40
@Les Distraction and projection are their brand.
1
Subvert the election TALK ABOUT PROJECTION right up there with "rigged"crooked" "puppet"
Republicans will never vote for documents and witness because it would implicate Pence, Barr, Pompeo, Mulvaney, McConnell, McCarthy, Nunes as well as some that have left Congress like Paul Ryan
See the Wapo article long ago on R insider meeting "shhh only among family"...And all the other great NYT and Posts articles on R Congressman Russian ties whether winery or scoring an aluminum plant in your state.
Documents and witnesses simply would blow the doors off..there most likely are many more involved then listed above.
The entire party is complicit vs spineless...
49
Throw in Pompeo's latest misogynistic attack on the press - and this horrific period in American history answers the question,"What would it look like if the Gambino crime syndicate had taken control of the federal government?"
51
The Gambino crime family would probably do a much better job of running the government.
Dear Fellow Americans,
Contact your two Senators and tell them we need to see and hear the witnesses and documents.
Especially do this if you have a Republican Senator. I did it in Georgia.
Email and phone numbers:
https://www.senate.gov/
45
@MidtownATL
Thanks!!
Only when all of us engage will this stop!
The only government FOR the people, is a government BY the people.
2
@MidtownATL I phoned mine. In response she made her preplanned attack on the free press in the form of Manu Raju the next day. She does not seem to be permeable to logic or patriotism.
3
@MidtownATL: I don't know how your Republican senators treat you, but mine (Ted Cruz and John Cornyn, the devil's own duo) usually ignore my letters or write back condescendingly, while disparaging my opinion and elevating their own. It only strengthens my resolve to see them both defeated at the ballot box. Cornyn has to go in 2020. We are stuck with Cruz until 2022. Cruz has now launched a podcast defending the president during the impeachment trial, which he is said to record every night after the proceedings.
3
Impeachment to a president is akin to the lemon law for used cars. In this case, you were sold a shiny old vehicle under false pretenses that it would be “great” “the best car in history” “perfect to drive.” The fact is it has been just the opposite—erratic, problematic and barely works as advertised. Wouldn’t you feel like you received a lemon? And shouldn’t you get your money back?
34
@JG love this. The "Lemon Law" the "Lemon President".
@JG
Best economy and lowest unemployment numbers in memory not to mention tackling the illegal immigration issue with a real drop in the number of crossings.
The left is really delusional, you will be greatly disappointed come November.
I don’t care about getting my money back, but it would be great if we could all get back the last four years of our lives after this nightmare is over with.
We all knew this would be the defense because they have no defense AND because Trump has been Tweeting this for weeks.
But let's take a business example:
1. CEO Blah got elected to the Board fair and square.
2. CEO Blah proceeded to embezzle money.
3. CEO Blah goes to trial and is found guilty and the share holder vote to throw him out.
4. The Board counters with a "You are trying to negate our election of this CEO...we don't like this. You are wrong to want to get rid of the criminal.
5. Forty percent of the shareholders march into the trial room wearing red hats and yelling that "How dare the judge decide this person was guilty and we do not believe the evidence even if it is in CEO Blah's own writing." They call the prosecuting attorney Little Adam and say he is a liar...even their propaganda TV news parrots this.
6. The other sixty percent of the share holders try to tell them the trial was fair but of course they do not want to believe this.
7. The shareholder representatives look on. They were elected to represent their investors but do not care. Some even say they know better than their investors anyway. They know the CEO committed crimes but CEO Blah looks after their interests.
8. They say CEO Blah was just joking, embezzling money and lying is okay if it gets the job done. They hire top lawyers with wavy ethics to be sure CEO Blah stays in place.
9. More to follow...we hope.
.
17
@dee, "The other sixty percent of the share holders try to tell them the trial was fair..." When do we march at the Senate buildings to deliver this message and demand Republican resignations?
1
The Democrats are changing no minds about Trump. They will just enable him to rally his supporters and he will be able to run against the impeachment crazed lefties.
6
@dave Trump changed the minds of many Trump voters. Everyone I know who voted for him tell me they regret voting for him and would never vote for him again. And that was prior to all the current crimes he's committed coming to light now. Trump's defense has no defense of Trump that is even slightly believable.
1
When the facts are on your side, pound the facts
When the law is on your side, pound the law.
When neither is on your side, pound the Bidens
42
Oh my, was there an election coming up? We did this impeachment despite the election ya evil conservatives!
So there’s an election, huh? Interesting. Alert the media and those intractable folks who think it’s hip and existential not to vote.
4
@Charlotte Morton
When you cant win an election, impeach the incumbent, sounds like a plan......
They did not give a “radically different view of the facts” - they lied!
47
Trump's team of brilliant legal minds, jurisprudic geniuses, is using the old ""he dindu nuffin" defense, he was a perfect president.
14
There is a book claiming that Trump cheats at golf. Probably written by a never Trumper trying to over turn the scorecard of a golf game.
I just don't believe that Trump would do something like that. He just doesn't seem t be that kind of a fellow.
10
@Bob Guthrie: Best piece of anti-Trump satire that I've read in months. Thanks,
1
I see a headline this morning @AOL.com
‘Trump’s Defense: He Did ‘Absolutely Nothing Wrong’’
He Did ‘Absolutely Nothing Wrong’?
Absolutely Wrong.
He Did Wrong?
Absolutely!
18
There it is, boldly in the Constitution: impeachment. Yet Trump hacks lecture us that these proceedings are unconstitutional. This is a mis-administration of thugs and liars.
30
@Jim Steinberg: If the impeachment of a President is unconstitutional then the whole Constitution is unconstitutional according the the Republican's theory.
Maybe just maybe you could all hold your powder until we have heard the other 22 hours of the defense
4
I am in complete agreement: Democrats should hold their horses until the defense has presented its case. Unfortunately, the defense team is having too much fun driving the clown car to present the direct defense to the articles of impeachment. And what’s worse, there are too many people who prefer watching the Krazy Kops routine. My country, I fear for thee.
1
@Independent
So you think they actually have anything that would show he is innocent? Guess if he would release the documents and let his people testify maybe they would prove he is innocent. Okay, he has nothing but I will listen to the rest of the defence and I sure hope it is better then what they showed so far. I doubt they will use even 10 hours of the 22 hours they have.
1
The Republican argument that the Democrats are overturning an election ignores the fact that although their Russian installed sociopath con man would be removed he would be replaced with Pence. I would hope that they would be happy with a true religious fanatic at the helm rather than a fake one.
15
@Robert Nevins Yeah, I love it when uneducated Trump supporters claim that if Trump were to be removed that Hillary would become President.
1
“They have the burden of proof,” Mr. Cipollone said, “and they have not come close to meeting it.” Okay, then hand over all the evidence and allow witnesses. Duh!
36
Ha - I imagine you all are not used to a Republican who fights back. You do not have sole control over facts.
4
@Ambrose Rivers To the contrary, the Constitution demands that all of the requested documents be turned over to Congress in an impeachment process. Trumps defense is that the Constitution doesn't say what he thinks it does, even though he's never read it.
13
@Ambrose Rivers you're not used to people who stand up for what they believe in
@Ambrose Rivers: No one has control of ver facts. Facts are fact no matter where they come from. So far Trump's defenders refuse to produce any facts. They just deny tht the Democrat's facts are facts.
“Tear up your ballots”? You mean the ballots that recorded three million more for Hillary Clinton? Just imagine if the reverse had happened on Election Day 2016 in favor of the Liar-in-Chief and that Hillary had been by the electoral college. We would be involved in a civil war. “Let the voters decide”. Fine, lets repeal the last three years, they really didn’t happen.
23
@Bob Wells - The damage has already been done.
Drink the water lately?
1
Why does the Times not call out Trump's lawyers' lies? There aren't different facts here, there are truth and lies. Readers who don't get past the headline should know that.
24
@RMS
Ok, I'll bite. What lies?
2
@RMS Because this is an autocracy.
1
The United States has died.
Here, its funeral rites.
Out of Afghanistan. Now.
Out if Iraq. Now.
5
Still amused that Pompeo thinks Bangladesh is in Ukraine.
21
Secretary Pompeo the Academy called and they want your commission and your degree back. Something about a new world record for lies that violate the Honor Code.
@Why Me
I am amused that he carries around "blank" world maps which he suddenly breaks out to challenge people to "name that country."
This is dangerous.
8
If the Democrats are plotting to subvert the election, at least our election is being subverted by Americans, not Russians.
15
Quality comment.
This point cannot be overemphasized.
1
The President's lawyers LIE. Stop tiptoeing around that fact.
30
These guys got nothing, which is why they are spouting nonsense.
16
How did Trump's extremely insulting, yet not unfamiliar, 1/25/20 public online comment slip by me? He has no shame, nor consequences, as long as he's protected by the privileged, racist, classist, Republican party.
10
A background of crime is a poor venue
to practise being a President.
13
The Trump Presidency is without doubt the most brazenly criminal in American history. That this corrupt cabal is supported and abetted by the entire Republican Party makes one weep.
15
Republicans are destroying democracy in America.
Party over country. Wake up America!
22
I like the one about "Ukraine didn't know," therefore it wasn't a crime. That must be the Russian model: if one of the victims doesn't know, there's no crime.
That darn whistleblower ruined everything!
19
it would make a perfect defense for a murder. The victim never knew there was a crime being committed so there was no crime. How does somebody graduate from law school and pass the bar and make such a dumb argument?
Schiff's credibility is now zero
6
@james alan Schiff is a hero. He has more courage in his little finger than Trump's entire cabinet
1
I beg to differ, Adam Schiff acted with dignity and decorum during the opening phase of the impeachment hearing. He is a true patriot and hero!
1
I don’t recall the Times providing any conflicting analyses or critiques when the Democrats were presenting. I suppose that’s all anyone seeking an impartial assessment of this impeachment trial by the Times needs to know.
10
Where is Jack “you can’t handle the truth” Nicholson, when we need him !
6
How do they sleep at night?
20
@Tor Because they are "True Believers" The Republican Party has become the Jim Jones of the 21st Century. They willingly drink the cool aid.
How do Cipilone and Sekulow sleep at night? What do they tell their family members? What do they tell their friends?
16
@John Mardinly - They visit their bank accounts.
Someone is paying them.
2
So they have no defense. Got it.
18
Silly of the GOP to try claiming an overturn of Trump;s election. Did the GOP try to overturn Bill Clinton's election with their stooge Monica Lewinski?
21
" President Trump’s legal defense team mounted an aggressive offense on Saturday " No not really, it was the trial equivalent to " If the XXXL golf pants fit you must acquit"
16
Because they. are speaking falsely can these lawyers not be open to disbarrment?
18
@JFMACC Clearly the self-regulation of the legal profession has failed miserably in this instance (and many others, but start there).
1
It is painful to witness Evangelical lawyers far past their prime with Jet black, raven colored hair.
How much time, money, and effort does an elderly fellow such as Jay spend on his 20 year old hair style?
17
@Steven of the Rockies
I believe Sekulow (that's SEK-you-LOV, not sek-you-low)
is Jewish.
@Steven of the Rockies And botox treatments....his apparently overly relaxed the muscle occupying the space his brain is supposed to exist in.
1
@Steven of the Rockies - It's his rock band hair.
1
So, apparently Article 1, Section 2, Clause 5 of the US Constitution is illegitimate.
14
The Trump “presidency” is certainly illegitimate.
“ 'They’re asking you to tear up all of the ballots all across the country on your own initiative, take that decision away from the American people,' Pat A. Cipollone, the White House counsel, said of the House managers."
Mr. Cipollone seems more interested in propaganda than facts:
"White House counsel Pat Cipollone lied during the Senate impeachment trial when he said Republicans were not allowed in the secure briefing room during House impeachment hearings. Confronted by this blatant untruth, one of Trump’s lawyers, Robert Ray, declared, 'I’m not interested in wading in the procedural weeds here.' ... Some senator should send a note up to Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. asking him to admonish Cipollone.” (Washington Post 23Jan2020)
23
This thing is only starting to kick into gear. Schiff and his band of like-minded congenital liars were exposed, and will be pounded into dust.
7
Yeah. The “president,” who had to pay $25 million to settle his fake university scam, and his hired mouthpieces, are the ones telling the truth here.
@Cjmesq attacking Schiff is all you have. Schiff himself predicted this
1
Censure, not impeachment.
2
OMG. Impeachment is IN the Constitution. It’s not random, subversive overthrow of the government. The Founders included it to actually allow the ballots to be ripped up because the integrity of the Country and Constitution was more important. And THAT was written when the guy who was vice-president came in second and actively opposed the president. Did any of these lawyers and senators see Hamilton??!!
Yes rip them up, rip them all up. Thank you Constitution.
16
Bring on the trial witnesses! Bolton, Pompeo, Mulvaney, at a minimum should be testifying under oath. Let's find out what happened!
20
@mjpezzi ....hope you voiced your opinion to Senators Rubio and Scott!
2
@mjpezzi To paraphrase Lennon (John, not Vlad), "All I want is the truth. Just gimmee some truth"!
1
If it's a Democratic "plot," then then it's a conspiracy that Barr must investigate.
8
These men (Trump’s “legal eagles”), should move to Moscow.
11
The commitment of the house democrats to impeach and of senate republicans to acquit before all facts are known are equally morally repugnant.
4
@SK But only one results in a de facto takeover of our election system. I eschew your false equivalence.
1
The Democrates may habe been looking for an excuse, but Trump gave the Republicans a reason to remove him.
8
Good Lord, this has moved from Commedia Dell’Arte to the Theatre of the Absurd. Put it to music and it'll move on to Vaudeville.
Too bad Bob Fosse wasn't still around. We could get a new smash hit on Broadway, 'All That Trump'.
5
@Halsy - An opera 'Trump in Moscow'.
1
it is NOT subverting an election to hold a rogue president accountable. if the vice president is not guilty, that person will take over the presidency, not the opponent in the election. how about a BIG DUH? [considering that the 2016 election was tainted by foreign interference of russia in favor of current occupant, maybe it should be overturned..but it ISN'T even if the mango mussolini were tossed aside as he should be.]
16
Why weren't the Republicans whining about subverting the election when they impeached Bill Clinton?
19
@Linda
Because by impeaching Clinton, they knew they could paint Al Gore ,by association, with the "character" broad brush. Enough American sheep bought into it that the Supreme Court handed the White House over to the "Yellow Cake Crew. "
I wonder how outraged Susan Collins is this morning over the president's tweet? Oh, who am I kidding. She's probably fine with it.
15
@RNS
She's still on the proverbial fence, where she seems to be always perched.
1
@RNS To quote the late Frank Zappa, "Susie Creamcheese, what's got INTO you!"
1
Why is so much energy & hope wasted on this guessing game of which Republican senators "might" do the right thing? None of them will! They're Republicans! If they had any conscience or sense of patriotism they'd be Democrats!
A Susan Collins or Mitt Romney is no different from a Ted Cruz or Mitch McConnell. Lamar Alexander is not going to have a Mr Smith Goes to Washington moment & save the republic. Maybe the Murkowskis & Burrs have some lingering sense of human decency buried deep in their DNA but they will have no trouble ignoring it when the time comes. They love what Trump is doing & they want to see more of it - that's where Schiff was wrong with the "heads on a pike" comment.
The only way things will change is if enough decent people go to the polls & vote these criminals out of office. John McCain was & is a myth. A Republican is a Republican is a Republican.
13
Of all his psychological self-defense mechanisms, the “I know you are but what am I” may be my favorite. Just take whatever he is accused of and project it back on the accuser. Works every time. How’s that tampering in our elections by the Ukrainians working out DJT?
10
Sort of how Pompeo seems to think Bangladesh is located in Ukraine. Basic facts, including knowledge of geography, are not this Administration’s forte.
9
In this article, it is apparent that the NYT has embraced the "alternative facts" philosophy of the Republican Party.
The writer reports very, very seriously what the Republicans say without mentioning that none of the facts are true. The only people saying that the "alternative facts" aren't true are described as partisan Democrats, mischaracterizing all their evidence and testimony as having exactly the same weight as whatever "alternative fact" is thrown out by a Republican.
Until this newspaper stops doing that in all their reporting, they are helping ONLY the right wing. Because if one side blatantly lies and the other doesn't, and this newspaper only reports news stories as "both sides make excellent points", then there is no way for a reader to know what is true. And if this newspaper abandons its job of reporting the truth, it might as well shut down now.
11
This is a good example of why people in general have such a low opinion of lawyers. The "overturn the election" defense is as close as you can get to a bad faith argument. Convicting Trump for acts he took as president?
If Dems really wanted to overturn the results of the 2016 election, and nothing more, they'd be impeaching Trump AND his appendage on the ticket, Pence.
And, as usual, in Trumpworld, the finger is always pointed at someone else. They never point to current realities, instead directing the public to scapegoats for Trump's massive ineptitude.
8
The big winner of this fiasco of a trial is Vladimir Putin.
Russia owns this President and owns most of the Republican Party.
14
@John Adams - Correction: owns ALL of the republican
party.
1
@John Adams
I don't think they care as long as they are paid on time.
2
The president wasn’t picking his nose, he was scratching it.
2
A journalist needs to ask trump what he will do if the Senate voted to convict and remove him from office. We all know the fix is in, and he won't be convicted but the question should be asked. Why? Because he's dumb enough to give an honest answer and the American people need to hear that.
8
Let me get this straight. Trump shouted his way into the GOP Primary claiming President Obama was illegitimate because he was born in Africa. He then won the GOP nomination mostly on the back of “Lock Her Up”. On the eve of his victory Trump claimed the Election was “rigged”. Now I’m supposed to believe that the impeachment is all an effort to nullify his election?
“You can fool some of the people all of the time.”
MUDA- Make Us Dupes Again
12
Trump's defense might as well sit there, look at their phones, check their social media, texts, emails, eat chips and drink beer. The GOP phoned it in months ago. This thing is a pure unadulterated sham. No witnesses? That's absurd and despicable. This is America, the GOP seems to have forgotten that basic fact.
18
The Democrats have blown it by focussing solely on the Ukraine issue.
Trump has been committing impeachble offenses since day one. It’s the sum total of them that makes him unfit.
That case is clear in the minds of most Americans. It only lies with the timidity of the Democratic politicians to muck it up.
6
@Jerry Engelbach They didn't "blow" a thing. 53 no votes were cast in concrete from the outset, but at least some of the wrongdoing was exposed, and more will trickle out later.
Subvert the 2016 election? Rubbish.
They voted in a Republican president (courtesy of the Electoral College system of course), and they will continue with a Republican president if Trump is removed: Mike Pence.
10
Meanwhile the fair and balanced network chose not to cover the trial live after 5 PM last week.
On Wednesday, Hannity told his viewers:
"If I were a terrible host night, I would force you to endure watching the regurgitation, the repetition ... the insanity that has gone on all day."
Wasn’t he so kind to make the decision for his viewers?
This sounds like what the benevolent dictatorship I lived under for the first 8 years of my life did for my fellow citizens. It was called censorship!
Time to boycott their advertisers!
SEE:
cnn.com/2020/01/23/media/fox-news-impeachment-coverage/index.html
12
With this nonsense defense Trump is forcing the Republican party to grovel at his feet, least he adorns their 'heads on a pike' along the perimeter of his Washington jungle compound. If the Republicans submit, as it it appears they will, what will come next with Trump? To win the election will he open the strategic oil reserves and flood only red and swing states with 25 cent per gallon gas while the rest of the country twists in the wind? Why not? Who will stop him? After all, the election truly IS rigged, only in HIS favor because of the electoral college where 100K votes in the mid west has the same representation in the Presidential election as ~14M in CA.
The Republicans are doing Putin's bidding who probably giggles himself to sleep every night thinking about the stupidity and ease at which it was to subvert the US to do his work for him and destroy itself. That's what's happening folks.. its not hyperbole.. its real. And its sickening and terrifying to watch as hate and SPITE by the Republican party ends democracy in the US for an autocracy.
13
Sadly the GOP Lawyers are lying just as Trump & Giuliani do. Ridiculous to say that "this is about the Democrats stealing the votes that put Trump in office." Totally unfounded allegation, turning the tables on the truth...that in fact Trump pressured the Ukraine to win the election by smearing Joe Biden. This was his pathetic idea and no one else was involved in such behavior. Trump & Giuliani. Trump is in fact being impeached, not the Democratic Party, or Schiff or any other person who is currently running against Trump. Desperation fostered by corruption of Trump & his supporters leads to such unproven lies. The same as Giuliani threatening to release information that will prove corruption by the Bidens. Show me the evidence!
10
Of course the Democrats are using the impeachment to influence the fall 2020 election. The whole impeachment push was, and is, a farce but they are desperate because they know the odds are they will be losing in November.
And please do not mention polls in a reply--if you do it will just demonstrate that you were one of the ones who believed the Hillary by 12% polls--how did that work out for you?
Vote for America—Vote Republican.
6
Yes, Trump won the 2016 election. He was elected president, not king.
8
As absurd and disturbing as the spectacle of these lawyers defending Trump is - they are truly devil’s advocates - perhaps we can take a smidgen of comfort in the thought that “they own him,” and they are truly owned by him. The truth will come out, no matter how the Republican toadies will try to spin it; they are forever entwined with the most poisonous and reptilian public figure who ever soiled elective office. Smarmy Pence will have a lot to explain when he reaches the pearly gates. Martha McSally spent her youth establishing a reputation as a brave, honorable soldier - she has surrendered her integrity as a stooge for Trump. What an appalling waste.
11
Schiff’s statement to start this process was an appalling mistake. It is indefensible. It creates the appearance of a dishonest effort. There is no way around it. A very stupid thing to do.
5
@Buster Dee As opposed to the hurricane of lies unleashed by Sekulow and Cippolone? Balderdash....I reject your lamely executed false equivalence.
1
Sorry but Mr. Martyr and the freshie dye-job barristers on his team are off in the weeds. Finding a juicier victim tale for Donald is NOT the point of rebutting the charges of this impeachment.
And GOP Senators sticking their fingers in their ears and saying LaLaLa is not a defense to the charge of abuse of the power of the office of the presidency. People keep trying to tell Dunderhead Donald that we have standards, we have laws.
12
Democrats have facts.
Republicans have excuses, disguised as facts.
16
Democrats did a masterful job presenting the evidence. Well, funny how that's their job! We believe in three branches of government...it's called checks and balances!
Republicans in the Senate didn't listen. They took bathroom breaks and played with fidget spinners. Graham was seen doing Soduko.
Republicans present a bunch of ambulance chasers desperately trying to make a name for themselves by concocting a wonderful story about election rigging.
Everything a republican says is PROJECTION.
Never forget that.
One more thing? There are no rules in how many times a president can be impeached. As many times as possible I hope!
12
In my opinion, Trumps lawyers made an iron clad case to subpoena witnesses. Come on Justice Roberts, lets call witnesses!
13
Has anyone heard of PARANOIA? That is where you blame others for your faults. The president and his Republican defenders have turned truth into a fake storm of accusations. I wish this form of massive distortion would trashed. BUT of course the problem is that the liars are in charge.
7
“Trump Team, Opening Defense, Accuses Democrats of Plot to Subvert Election” - done on Saturday. Was this theme intended as a Saturday Night Live skit?
4
Cipollone said “They’ve come here today and they’ve basically ‘Let’s cancel an election over a meeting with the Ukraine.’ ”
Is he out of his mind?
Suppose Trump is removed. Then Pence, the vice president duly elected in 2016, becomes president. The Republicans' path of least resistance is to nominate him to run in 2020.
Nobody's canceling the result of 2016. Nobody'd calling off the 2020 election.
As for shredding ballots... *sheesh*... none have been _printed_ yet, since the Democrats don't have a nominee.
12
America is the slowly boiling frog. The masses don't see what trump wants - the constitution ripped up, congress, senate and the house dismantled, and trump dictator. this trial determines if he is above the law and can do whatever he wants. he can set up concentration camps for anyone not white; he can demand the death penalty for all opponents such as biden, warren, sanders, comey, mccabe, peter, lisa, and others. is that really what America wants? no constitution, no republic, no democracy, no votes?
7
trump’s spurious “defense” is of course utter nonsense meant to pander to those who fantasize that their “leader has been unduly chastised. Nuts! The impeachment goes on record to formally charge trump for his abuses of power and contempt for our constitution. he knows he’s done many things wrong as do most of his supporters. They play their games, waste our time and resources and dig an ever deeper hole for themselves. They have lost due to their incompetence, selfishness and criminality; good riddance!
I look forward to a new president come November who will be a real leader ready to move our country and the world in the right direction.
9
This is not about "reversing the election." But that's the only defense they have for the indefensible.
Whether by fealty, extortion or bribery, the GOP's cynical protection of this lunatic, lawless and lowlife president would be funny if it didn't have such tragic, long-term consequences.
11
The Republican cabal long ago determined that the fix is in for this impeachment. Cross the cabal, and they will come and undermine the campaigns of their own. Cross Moscow Mitch, and he will do the same. Evidently they have signed their names in blood to comply with the party line, and make a mockery of the rules of law. No evidence, no witnesses, no
problems
Doesn't seem to matter to the American public that the republicans have disassembled our government and the courts from the inside when. hey, they can just continue to shop.......the great American pastime!
7
Republicans have become the party of mendacity in ways high and low. The handy thing is, you can tell when they're lying because their lips move. You young'uns may not remember, but as Paul Simon wrote many years ago in his hit song Baby Driver: Lie la lie, lie la lie lie lie la lie (repeat as needed). There's even a 10 min loop of this chorus on YouTube. I turn it up to drown out the non-stop whoppers. Helps me stay sane.
6
@Michael Stevens I was gonna give you a reco, but the song you quoted is from is "The Boxer", not "Baby Driver". Same album, though.
The Shameful part of this is all the Republicans who took oaths to the Constitution of the United States but at the same time took an oath to hypocrisy, Koch Brothers and other demons that masquerade as true conservatives, the Federalists Society, the Saudis money, the Russian money (Mitch they love you), the Chinese money, and all the other players that want to control our government in their name. Its amazing that Trump can say he has a "legal" team when they too are knee deep in corruption and took an oath to their profession, but go on manipulating the truth for money and greed. Women Senators especially should take note most of all...setting the course of our nation over the cliff and your name is going to be remembered in this election and next that you supported the demise of a democratic nation that women and children of women have died for
Republicans will be remembered for rigging the system for their own wealth and the trillion dollar debt left to our children and the murdering others in the name of preventing terrorism, allowing others to murder our citizens by turning a blind eye, allowing children to be held in concentration camps on our borders and failing to undue the big tax incentive giveaway to the rich that keeps them in power and most of us in poverty, all these things you will be remembered for most-- but most of all, not holding Trump accountable for violating his oath of office and to the People of these United States. Shame on all of you.
9
Oh, bad, always.
Trump will not be removed, and we know it.
Sad day for my country.
Good morning America. How are you?
I'll be gone 500 miles when the day is done.
4
@Pat "America is busy nursing autocracy, and will get back to you when it can. Leave a message at the beep!"...
It does seem that Democrats just couldn't get over the fact that they lost to Trump, a reality TV orange clown with zero political experience. I realize it was a shock, but when you run a corrupt, war mongering liar with a horrible personality against a corrupt liar with an odious personality, it's basically going to be a toss up. We know from the book Shattered that the Clinton campaign concocted the bogus Russian collusion story to deflect from her inexplicable loss and avoid having to take responsibility for giving us Trump but it took on a life of its own due to our lazy and entertainment-driven press. Years of "Bombshell!" and "The walls are closing in!" and "It's the beginning of the end!" followed by retractions, reporters being fired for getting it wrong, and finally, the nail in coffin with the Mueller report, left the public fatigued and suspicious of the Democrats judgement as well as their motivations. Then, they moved on the UkraineGate with Schiff telling us that the only way to deal with Trump is impeachment. A process hastily assembled and rammed through in record time. This is an embarrassment for the Democrats who, in my book, have lost all credibility. Not that they had any to begin with.
5
The case against Mr. Trump has been an exercise in bad faith and mendacity and will eventually be answered by a raft of indictments against its perpetrators, including the “whistleblower” and his enablers, Intel IG Michael Atkinson and former DOJ lawyer, Mary McCord. The outcome of all this will be the humiliation of the Democratic Party, and perhaps its death.
5
Trump supporters aren’t even remotely embarrassed about going full fascist, are they now?
1
The title of article is:
“ President’s Lawyers Give Radically Different View of facts”.
It should be replaced by:
“ President’s Liars Give Radically Different View of facts”.
8
They just keep saying what they are actually perpetrating! Gaslight anyone?
5
Like Trump, the GOP, and Trump supporters, the lawyers speak as if only 63 million people who voted for Trump count in the United States. Hubris is always any Achelles heel of many arrogant people in power.
9
The PRC government came to the conclusion a couple of months ago that the Democrats cannot beat Trump, so they agreed to sign a Phase I trade agreement now, rather than after the election with Trump at the dawn of a second term. The Democrats concluded a couple of months ago that they could not beat Trump in an election, so they've decided to try to get his name off the ballot, or failing that simply smear him. The only group that can make Trump look good in comparison is the Democrats. Where is your John Kennedy? Where is your "ask not what your country can do for you, ask rather what you can do for your country"? You are no better than Trump, and not nearly as entertaining. You are an insult to whatever little honorable history that the Democratic Party ever had.
4
Quote “They’re asking you to tear up all of the ballots all across the country on your own initiative, take that decision away from the American people,” Pat A. Cipollone, the White House counsel, said of the House managers. “They’re here,” he added moments later, “to perpetrate the most massive interference in an election in American history, and we can’t allow that to happen.”
Hey Republicans The Electoral College put him in office not the people.
I guess dictatorship is their only desire.
7
So Trumps defense is they are all jealous of me?
5
Hillary Clinton won at the ballot box. Trump was selected by the Electrol College. The will of the people was subverted.
5
Hillary Clinton won by seven million votes in California but only by three million votes overall nationwide. Unfortunately the only conclusion that can be made is that the total vote count for Trump in 49 states other than California, was four million greater for Trump than Clinton.
@William McCain
So, one person,one vote doesn't apply to Californians?
..., “Never attribute to malevolence what is merely due to incompetence.” (Arthur C. Clarke)
1
And the moon is roundish, the seas are full of salt water blah blah blah. All irrelevant. Trumps lawyers need to respond to the allegations of abuse of power.
6
Republicans save your party and remove Trump. Long term way better for you. Short term you put United States at risk.
7
TO ADAM SCHIFF, if the Trump Party does not allow evidence and witnesses you must walk out, as should all democrats to prevent the Trump Party from allowing an exoneration vote for their dictator.
6
Who knew that the Sun actually revolves around the Earth...
5
@Chicago Guy the whole world is watching. They will soon know if Americans are wise to remove Trump or utterly foolish to allow a corrupt authoritarian to continue..
1
Funny how it when over Republicans' head when Schiff trolled a favorite straw man quote.
Schiff's head on pike comment "I don't know if that's true or not..."
TRUMP: "I don’t know if that’s true or not. But what they said is he’s (whistle-blower) an Obama
person. It was involved with Brennan; Susan Rice, which means Obama.
But he was like a big — a big anti-Trump person."
3
Query: Who had more contacts?
The Trump campaign with Russains?
or The Pompeo/Julieannie Team with Ukranians?
Interesting legal fact of the day:
if the president of the bank doesn't know you were planning to rob the bank,
you are not guilty of conspiring to rob the bank!
Who knew?
4
The "Anatomy of a Lie" could also be the heading for this article and this American administration, as well.
5
Judge Roberts should speak up.
5
Trump’s lawyers’ argument proves too much. Every impeachment and removal of a president undoes an election’s results—that person wouldn’t be president but for being elected. Thus their argument is irrelevant and silly.
4
It’s a stupid, disingenuous position but it doesn’t have to be an intelligent or honest argument to work on Trump supporters, as they amply demonstrate here.
Shameful behaviour. Treating an impeachment trial like an episode of family feud.
There is no truth anymore. Reality is what the republicans decide for their masters.
Arrogant, misleading and character assassination.
With each passing day the world cringes at unethical and immoral America, the nation of laws (manipulated for the benefit of the few) , a supposed Christian nation ( God is on my side) with blood on its hands and megalomania in its eyes.
Where are your principles?
6
My favorite moment is Cippolone accusing the trial for attempting to influence the 2020 election. Another ridiculous down is up moment from the Right corner of the government.
"They are here to perpetrate the most massive interference of an election in American history."
Republicans are shameless. Ducking reality and rolling us all with untruths, disinformation. Playing to the base is not respecting the voters.
The defense is further proof of just how low they will go.
12
It was the Electoral College that elected Trump not he American people!
5
I believe I owe Republicans an apology.
Thousands of lies and crude remarks from Trump, and never a hint or a whisper of objection from them.
Now along comes Schiff with his head-on-a pike remark, and suddenly they are up-in-arms and full-of-objections to it.
I never understood before now how sensitive Republicans are.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/1/25/21071035/senate-republicans-adam-schiff-head-on-a-pike-comment-outrage
9
Wow.
I thought it was a rerun from “The Sopranos” !!
7
Sekulow and company are very good propagandists and know how to present a lie in a manner that will make anyone susceptible to deception accept what they are selling as truth. One might read the work of Pastor Martin Niemoller to develop an appreciation of the dangers of falling prey to lies and propaganda.
6
So despite months of Trump and his associates continuously smearing and trashing the Biden family, polls are virtually unchanged. Trump went after a candidate that won't win even win the nomination!😎
1
How about we just call them lies rather than “alternate facts”. Why play their game? They’re obscenely dishonest. We all know it. There are facts and their is dissembling. We know what they’re doing.
3
Facts don't matter to the GOP and some of their voters.
Insert the name Obama or Clinton (instead of Trump) for this Ukraine crisis and the GOP and Fox News news would be lighting the hair on fire and howling at the moon.
Right now, I'm watching Senator Lankford on CNN this morning coming up with the most pathetic excuses for the GOP and the White House.
Utterly disgraceful.
9
It is amazing how much trouble the Senators are going to to say nothing.
4
The United States has enemies for good reason. The Hypocrisy of American States is seen. Believe it – such is real!
3
During the House managers’ presentations what struck me was how often they cited news media, whether tv clips from cbs abc nbc fox pbs cspan or newspaper articles from NYT Washington post! It was wonderful to see them relying on our free press for information and fact seeking. Bravo we are proud of our press. Keep it up. We depend on you folks to reveal expose deliver the truth. And save us from an authoritarian dictator and his party of truth hiders.
5
It’s time for a new constitution — or at least a few amendments to it. I mean, you sanctimonious Democrats, Republicans, and Unregulate-the-Market Patriots, it’s not like you’re doing such a great job with the Ten Commandments or the Golden Rule. Step aside and let the Great All Seeing Eye rule again. C’mon, it’s on the back of the dollar bill.
1
We all know what the verdict will be. So why all this chest thumping about a fair trial? Shouldn't the goal be a just verdict?
2
The first mistake the Dems made was sending one guy to preach for hours. You never subject viewers to something they would never watch themselves, and people NEVER want to see even Eddie Murphy going longer than 30 or 40 minutes at a atretch.
Then, they cut apart EVERY bit of testimony and evidence. All the other side ever has to do is supply the parts you chose to ignore and THEN ask what you were afraid people would think after getting the whole story.
And, they REALLY didn't have anyone less shallow and more credible than the pathetic Schiff in the ENTIRE Democratic majority on the House? Just costume someone as Dagwood from the comics if Shiff is your only choice.
The middle-of-the-road, everyday American reaction comes courtesy of Sen. Ernst:
I thought today was an incredible two hours, and within two hours, I thought that the White House counsel and their team entirely shredded the case that has been presented by the House managers,” the Iowa conservative said.
“What we heard today was very concise; it was full of truths and facts, as presented by the House managers’ own witnesses. It was not filled with half-truths and personal stories.”
You own choices of witnesses destroyed your case; why bother to bring in more?
1
In actuality, the Democrats DID beat Trump at the ballot box! count the total votes. DJM
3
For all those saying what the Constitution says about impeachment below is the actual text.
Article II
Section 4
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
4
Trump cheats—
• on his wives
• in his golf games
• in his taxes
So Russo-Republican logic dictates that —
He will not cheat in the elections.
Also, he will transition the presidency very, very peacefully and with such impeccable grace.
11
NYTimes how about fact checking Trump's defense:
Example: His team morphing into lawyerly spin his unhinged and ignorant rants about the US always paying more than everyone else prettied up as "Concern with burden sharing".
"The EU has given almost twice as much on average per year than the U.S. since 2014."
https://www.factcheck.org/2019/09/trump-wrong-on-european-aid-to-ukraine/
3
The Alternative Facts team has spoken.
And as for trump’s latest, perhaps greatest unhinged twitter rant... egad, how anyone can think that comes from a sane mind?
4
What a poor set of lawyers the occupier of the White House has. A set of lawyers reflecting the poor character of the occupier of the White House.
I mean seriously 'partisan witch-hunters trying to remove him from office because they could not beat him at the ballot box'. The guy was beaten at the ballot box.
No, poor set of lawyers, the occupier of the White House needs to be removed from office before he does any more damage to the already tainted reputation of the U.S. of A.. And did the poor set of lawyers forget that the only reason that man is occupying the White House is Russian interference? Are the poor set of lawyers happy that Russia helps the occupier of the White House again? Or are the poor set of lawyers just happy to collect a paycheck? Do the poor set of lawyers know that the occupier of the White House has quite a reputation for not honouring due paychecks?
4
I’m having a delightful time enjoying watching our Republicans squirming bile humiliation even if trump isn’t ousted.
Recall they hunted, shamed and humiliated Bill Clinton and the Presidency with an spurious trial over a trivial moral misdemeanor - that had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with governance.
Who knows, maybe they learned something?
What goes around, comes around.
4
Trump, as a child, must have been raised to think nothing he ever did was wrong. Trump has this huge sense of self entitlement. I read once that he actually punched one of his teachers when he was young. He was always the bully. Then Roy Cohn came along in the 70’s and taught Trump to be even more despicable. Now here we are. Why his supporters cannot see what a corrupt man he is truly beyond belief.
4
Lawyers from both sides never talk about Donald Trump's previous attorney Michal Cohen for Campaign Finance Violation and the reason he is in jail now. What for? And for whom??
4
Details? Facts? I don' need no stickin' facts, even though they exist in abundance. As they say, the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, particularly when one deliberately refuses to acknowledge what's in front of one's face. And just two hours today to make the case for the Don (bend the knee and kiss the ring)? Why, it's so much easier to edit such blatant fluff for TV...specifically, faux news.
1
Trump airlines, failed.
Trump steaks, failed.
Trump vodka failed.
Trump travel,failed.
Trump mortgage, failed.
Trump magazine, failed.
Trump casinos,failed.
Trump University,failed
Trump senate railroad, an enormous success
8
Does anyone, of any political stripe, really think Trump has cared about corruption in Ukraine? Do his devout followers, especially his devout followers, drunk for three years on his nationalist spiel, think so? Of course not. We all know this.
6
Republican cowards have no credible FACT-BASED defense of Trump's actions so they go after the process with conspiracy theories.
3
"Extortion is not extortion when the President does it for personal gain!"
5
I genuinely don't understand the subverting or overturning the election argument. It doesn't defend the President for what he's done. But it also makes no sense. Trump has been president for 3 years. You can't undo that. He'll always be the 45th President. The laws he's signed, the actions he's taken we will have to live with no matter the outcome of the trial.
Its a really dumb argument.
8
"Radically different views of the facts" used to be called "lying".
8
This article gives short shrift to Purpura’s defense of Trump in which he destroys The Democrat Impeachment managers’ case in about eight minutes with video evidence showing that it is based entirely on conjecture.
Elsewhere the NYT has a lengthy article extolling the brilliance of Schiff’s closing arguments based entirely on that conjecture, further larded with innuendo and fear-mongering.
Side by side, it becomes apparent that the Impeachment effort is nothing more than an effort to delegitimize the results of the 2016 election and to cast doubt on the results of the 2020 election should Trump win. Putin’s goal of casting doubt on American democracy is being openly aided and abetted by the Democrats. They have no case.
2
After this morning's hearings, Lindsay Graham ran to shmooze with Fox while "Cryin Chuck" communed with CNN. Wouldn't it have been more revealing if they switched networks?
So much for bipartisanship.
1
In advertising, if you have nothing to say ... sing it. In politics, one supposes, you can shout it, or concoct some loosely coupled factoids and feed up conspiracy for your uncritical base.
The real conspiracy, the one Trump and his acolytes are serving up, as has been noted ad nauseum, is hiding in plain sight.
3
Here’s hoping that every senator up for election/reelection in 2020 is soundly defeated. That is the only way we will get rid of this awful, unprofessional, unethical, amoral, treacherous man who occupies the White House! Honorable Americans, we all need to be on a mission to do everything we can to help Democrats win all 2020 elections. Maintaining our democratic Republic depends on us defeating the Republicans!
2
In years to come, when someone writes the history of these events, the title will be "The Big Coverup".
4
The United States has died.
Here, its funeral rites.
Out of Afghanistan.
Out of Iraq.
Let integrity rule. Not sham trials. This some local joke?
1
True. The is an attempted coup. America loves Trump.
It is a pity we have a man with a child's mind as our president.
The facts are the facts and no amount of spin can ever change the facts.
6
Trump is not fit to be President. However I couldn't care less that he asked Ukraine to investigate Biden. That doesn't count as interference to me just as I never believed the Russian interference narrative. Let's beat Trump at the ballot box and stop this nonsense.
The Trump lawyers reply to the House impeachment charges:
1. See no evil .... there will be no new evidence.
2. Hear no evil ….. there will be no new witnesses.
3. Speak no evil …. 53 GOP Senators will acquit, regardless.
The shame of today's Republican Party is bottomless.
4
It's always interesting that the folks who have obviously been plotting the demise of democracy, and democratic rule, accuse everyone else of plotting the demise of democratic processes.
They also accuse the majority of voters (remember that Trump LOST the popular vote by 3 million votes) of trying to nullify the 2016 election.
They also accuse the Bidens of corruption, while practicing the most obvious, blatant and most dangerous forms of it, every day.
They tried to get Ukraine to announce an investigation of the Bidens, and are now being investigated by the Ukraine instead.
They spent years trying to do anything, include manufacture false evidence of Hillary's alleged corruption and coverups, only to openly admit they are corrupt, and then turn around and try to cover it up.
If all of this is lost on you, you should recuse yourself from voting, as your lack of judgement is, like Trump and his crime family, a clear and present danger to our country, our civilization, and our US Constitution.
4
In the meanwhile, Lev Parnas's lawyer has released a tape of Trump talking to Parnas and Furman for around an hour, totally giving the lie to his claim not to know them. How are we supposed to believe a man who lies so blatantly as Donald Trump? Why should we trust anything he says? Why should the Senate? What is their motive for racing through a fake trial without calling any witnesses or hearing new evidence? Mitch McConnell and other senators have broken their oaths to be impartial jurors. If the American people let this pass, we will see our civil rights erode right before our eyes, because our system of checks and balances has let us down and we are on the straight road to top-down, authoritarian government by the executive, without any way to ensure that two-thirds of the country doea not become utterly disenfranchised. Republicans are systematically paring back voter rolls for every feeble excuse they can devise. I have lived in Texas seven years and have had no representation in either branchnof the U.S. Congresd that entire time. And I am not alone in that. Try to imagine that happening to you. Dwell for a moment on the injustice of that, having no voice in your own government for years and years. Why should we believe a pack of liars like Trump and his extracurricular mob?
5
I am a 30-year NYT subscriber (print mostly) and that is one of the most accurate headline portrayals I’ve ever read in the NYT.
In fact, this entire process is a coup intended to overturn the 2016 election.
3
President Trump’s crime was that he got elected. The Democrats feel he stole the presidency from Hillary Clinton. She just wasn’t any good.
2
When Trump is re elected this November here are my predictions.
Adam Schiff will admit himself into an insane asylum from chronic Trump derangement syndrome.
Nancy Pelosi will have a nervous breakdown.
Mr. Adler will still be chasing Trump around Washington with his cane.
The rest of us Americans will enjoy another 4 years of unprecedented prosperity.
1
i am looking to america in disbelief on how quiet & passive american citizens are while their democratic republic is stolen from them... where are the protesting masses?... where is the support for the for the fine people who are defending the constitution... republican senators are afraid of a dangerous, vindictive president who does not shy away from destroying the lives of his opponents, but i think, huge protests by a part of the 70 percent of voters who want a fair trial would terrify them even more... would...
4
The president of the USA has behaved as if 65% of Americans are his personal enemy and he has a right to use the power of the office to attack Americans while using the powers of the office to support not only the enemies of the USA but attack integrity, honesty, ethics, the U S Constitution and the Rule of Law.
And this behavior is supported by the used-to-be-called- republicans in the senate and lawyers for whom law is, not about the spirit and intent of laws of a Democracy but only a tool to be manipulated for a personal end which in this case is money.
5
Two days ago Pompeo called an NPR reporter into his private quarters, after making her leave her recorder behind, and shouted at her in a curse filled tirade which included this gem: "Do you think Americans care about [swear word] Ukraine?" She had been asking him for proof of his dubious assertion that he had defended the exemplary Ambassador Yovanovitch after Trump and his gang had, in their own words, "taken her out." This is what the reporter has told us. On official stationary Pompeo has claimed that the reporter lied to him. Who do you believe?
4
Aren't Trump's lawyers supposed to be the brightest guys in the room? Subvert the 2015 election? The alleged (non-criminal) high crimes and misdemeanors took place in 2019.
2
The more events unfold - trump's own insidious plan to undermind Biden's chances in the upcoming elections come to light:
a) though the official channels, trump presented the image of the "President who is truly concerned about corruption in Ukraine - while he kept everyone there in the dark about his true intent.
That is the image in which his defense attorneys are paining to the public.
b) create a private channel through Giuliani as his "Personal Lawyer". Obviously through "attorney-Client Privilege (ACP)" Rudi would be immune from any congressional inquiry of his & trump's nefarious activities to pressure Ukraine Prez to announce the investigations of Biden
That explains why Giuilini's name does not appear in any witness list. ACP
A clever move which may backfire on both - trump & Giulinin himself
1
Really sick of partisan politics and all of its strict adherents. We’re doomed.
1
Three-day forecast: Raining red herrings.
6
When will lying be considered a crime?
2
"Deomcrats are asking you to tear up the ballots": Only the ballots of the electoral college.
3
Dear America,
Yes, we know. But we don't care. And there's nothing you can do about it.
Best wishes,
GOP
5
It feels like the branches of government and Constitution is crumbling as trump and the republicans throw hypocrisy and lies at it day by day.
Double speak, gaslighting and disinformation weaken any protections we have against an emperor. An abusive, vindictive money grubber
with a taste for Putin and his science of chaos.
2
You can take an elephant to water, but you can’t make it drink.
What a shame, such obstinate determination to deny reality.
When reality is inconvenient, the truth suffers. When reality is denied, survival suffers. I weep for us all.
3
Where are the lawyers bar associations? Trump’s lawyers are clearly lying and they obviously lack integrity.
3
Hillary Clinton was wrong to tag Trump's supporters as deplorable without giving them a chance to prove they really deserve that dark a title for their political actions. It saddens me to see Trump's supporters simply not want the Senate to prove their leader is not guilty of quid pro quo and obstruction of Congress. To not want the Senate trial to write a clean bill of innocence with Trump’s name emblazoned at the top. To not want to look under every stone for all the facts that prove they were right to choose Trump to be their president and for considering him a greater president than Lincoln. Possibly the greatest president this country will ever see seated in the oval office. Bolton, Mulvany, Pompeo and anyone else who can confirm it was a "perfect phone call" needs to tell that to a country that is doubting Trump's innocence. And widespread worldwide opinion of Trump that he is a liar and not to be trusted will be wiped off the slate of headlines that haunt his presidency. If Trump's supporters abandon him at this history-making moment in time then they truly are deplorable and proving Hillary Clinton right makes them doubly deplorable.
3
Faced with incontrovertible evidence the President was engaged in electoral cheating, the President's lawyers chose to respond with the schoolyard taunt, "You're a Cheater, Too".
As Donald Trump would say, SAD!
There's a more plausible defense Trump's lawyers could have used. Trump did something wrong, made a mistake, whatever but elections are coming, let voters decide.
But Trump's megalomania won't let him admit error. So his lawyers and, worse yet, Republican Senators are required to lie in his defense. More and more, the Ukraine caper resembles an episode of I, Claudius
5
This has happened before. If you want to see precedent, please read John Milton's "Paradise Lost," book II.
Here is just a thought - absurd as it may sound. BUT absurdity is the norm nowadays, isn't it? What if some of the billionaire donors all put together a fund and offer "severance" packages to all the Republican senators (say, 10 million a piece). That should at least change their minds to do the "right" thing! Dirty problems may need dirty solutions!!!
4
They can say whatever they want -- as long as they refuse to subpoena witness or documents they look like a bunch of cowards who fear the truth. If the tired "undo the election" whinge is the best they can do, it speaks volumes about the fact that they have no other defense. Obviously we need to hear from Pompeo, Giuliani, Mulveany, Perry, and Pence. UNDER OATH. Anything less truly is a coverup.
4
It’s a disgrace what they did to that Nixon guy ... overturning the election like that.
4
Hans Christian Andersen got it right when he penned The Emperor's New Clothes. Ordinary members of the kingdom (Republicans, in this case) were unwilling to face the "naked fact" that the King (Trump, in this case) was naked! They were either afraid or hoodwinked and, therefore, not brave enough to admit the obvious fact(s) before them.
4
In short, Trump's lawyers are doing a rehash of his greatest hits.
If they have nothing to offer in defense of his behavior, they can put a sock in it. This is a child's defense, nothing more.
Poor, poor pitiful me.
What about his victims? Ukraine's trust in us as an ally? Our allies trust in us? Those things are of value, far greater value than Trump's bruised ego.
Putin is laughing up his sleeve at Trump for being such an easy mark.
4
Trumps legal team exposed the democrats to be a bitter gang desperate to elevate a clumsy Trump phone cal to a level that it doesn't belong.
1
If the Republican Senate acquits Trump, whatever deeds and misdeeds he accomplishes in the office of the Presidency can be laid at their feet.
5
An attorney may not knowingly lie in Court.
Another norm trampled and put to death under the Trump admin and his Senate.
4
So I guess this means Republicans were trying to subvert the 1996 election when they impeached Clinton, right? Or was that different? You know, because he was a Democrat, and it’s OK to subvert elections that Democrats win? Kind of like not allowing Barack Obama to choose a Supreme Court justice in his second term?
5
I'm tired of the Republican meme about "overthrowing the election."
First of all: Trump has served in his position since he was elected. The Dems didn't overthrow anything.
The reason for the impeachment is because Trump acted inappropriately while in office. He broke the law, he broke his vow to uphold the Constitution, and he broke the public trust. The impeachment is about the inappropriate actions he committed while in office; it has nothing to do with the election of 2016.
It was Trump's personal choice to act inappropriately. It's his own fault that he's being impeached; it has nothing to do with the election of 2016.
And on top of this: It takes a lot of chutzpah for Sekulow et al to assert that anyone's trying to "subvert an election," given that Trump asked for and received help from Russia for his win. And he has said that he would do it again.
And "tearing up ballots?" Let's talk about turning away voters at the polls because the Republicans have purged voter rolls in key swing states.
The hypocrisy of the Republicans would be astounding if it wasn't so disgusting!
10
The President's lawyers cannot begin to match the expertise, class, and professionalism of the House team. All the Trump stooges do is yell and scream and try to put personals into everything a la Trump.
4
There are a bunch of gang members of all sorts doing time thinking, "If only we did it as a political party we'd be in freedom."
4
What’s the difference? We’re all going to die of the corona virus soonly.
Subverting which election? The 2016 presidential election? The one Dems won by almost 3-million in the popular vote? Despite fielding a terrible candidate?
No, when I think of subversion, I think of a mafia don telling his Luca Brasi to "take out" a perceived enemy ... and then claiming not to know Luca Brasi.
3
Its not an offence to want to fire someone and nor is it an offence to deny you said it.
We should all remember that this defense-of-the-indefensible team is part of the same group that brought you “truth is not truth” (Howdy Rudy) and “alternative facts” (KAC). In representing 45, they add him to resumes that include such stellar citizens and institutional icons as OJ Simpson, Jeffrey Epstein, Baylor and Trump “University”. And, lest we forget, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo will be visiting Ukraine just as this nightmare team is spewing its drivel, right after telling a reporter that “Americans don’t care about Ukraine,” echoing Trump’s on-the-record assertion that he, himself, doesn’t care about Ukraine, just “the big stuff,” the Faux News Biden conspiracy theater. Their contention that those seeking justice in impeaching Trump are attempting to “tear up all of the ballots” is just as ludicrous, coming, as it does, from the cult of personality that also brought you election meddling, hacking, rigging and voter suppression. Expect a steady stream of variations on Trump’s own go-to defense: I’m rubber, and your glue; what bounces off of me sticks to you. No wonder these proceedings begin with a prayer. Let’s hope we still have one.
5
Argue the grounds of the impeachment by making up new conspiracy theory lies and don't call any witnesses. Got it.
3
“They’re asking you to tear up all of the ballots all across the country.”
Of course, that’s irrelevant. To follow their argument to it’s logical conclusion, no president could be impeached ever.
2
Inocent people don't need to 'keep their stories straight'.
3
Classic. Setting aside all the falsehoods these guys are promoting, Cipollone refers to “the Ukraine,” adopting the Russians preferred term for what they consider a “region” of their empire rather than than an independent country.
You can’t make this stuff up.
4
Lamar Alexander, do the right thing.
2
For Democrats, it's been one failed coup attempt after another. But, Trump will be re-elected.
1
60 million plus American voters will not be amused at the Democrat mob suppressing and trying to annul their votes.
How about winning an election ....which used to be the Democratic way and will again when ...due to an unbroken stream of of successes ...when the president is re elected.
If you can't do the time don't do the crime.
2
So the so-called defense is that the Democratic members impeached trump because they wanted to influence the election. Not that the actions of trump might influence the elections because they warranted impeachment. Not that his well earned impeachment might cause him to lose the election. It is the Democratic house members who are to blame for daring to impeach trump, through rules laid out in the constitution. All these gop guys play by gutter rules. Their gutter mentality akways looks at,and blames,everyone else's behavior but their own. Pompeo's actions yesterday and Blackburn's words about Vindman tell us everything we need to know. Hiding behind their Jim Crow Christianity, they exhibit no scruples,no decency,no shame.
4
When you can’t argue against the crime you argue against the process.
4
What is the Democratic leadership thinking? They rushed the case in the House, with zero Republican support, and they will loose in the senate.
Biden will need to explain his Ukrainian involvement for the next 7 months, and Biden is incoherent. And Trump will mock his garbled answers incessantly through Twitter. The media has been filter Biden for months - but Trump has been able to by-pass that medium.
The most shocking revelation from the Trump era is how dumb the political class is - that a game show host can out smart the elites of both parties.
What is the end game?
1
What amazes me is the Republican support for Trump. He is a gigantic embarrassment and if you look back to 2016 almost everyone in the party had something bad to say about Trump. Examples abound (Graham, Rubio and Cruz immediately spring to mind.) I suppose that if you are a true party loyalist you might be willing to toe the line after he won the nomination and the election. But I can't imagine why they would not jump at the chance to get rid of him. Lets face it Pence is going to advocate for tax cuts and deregulation and all of the rest of the standard Republican policies. If I were a Republican senator I would be deathly afraid that if I vote to acquit Trump that my constituents would rise up and oust me when I came up for reelection. It is like the old joke about the guy who is in bed with his mistress when his wife comes in. She is obviously upset and he says "Oh sweetheart this isn't what it looks like!" She replies, "I am not blind I can see what is going on!" And he says "Oh come on, what are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes?"
3
The empirical evidence of Trump's perfidy is overwhelming.
Republican Senators have violated their oath sworn to standing before God and the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court and are now complicit with Trump's criminal enterprise.
The voters of this country are not stupid and will not forget this episode come Tuesday November 3rd.
3
Wow, if you even wanted to see deliberate lies, you could just watch the Republicans right now. The Republican's major premise, that Democrats are asking them to tear up votes, is so fundamentally a lie I wonder how any thinking Republican can accept being taken for a fool. The election is long over and there he sits, by hook and crook. Ugh, but that was that. The issue here is he abused the power of the office, once within his grasp. Do Republicans really think the American public is so asleep that anything goes? Republicans themselves should have woken up back in the primaries and realized where Trump would lead them. They elected an unethical person who worships winning as a god, which has to sit wrong with anyone who actually believes. Let's hope a few of them have the strength to do right. Doing right is not the same as crying uncle; in fact, it's the most courageous and politically astute move left to them.
3
“Facts”.
I guess it needs reminding that not one of the witnesses put forth by Democrats testified to facts. It was all either hearsay or as in Sondlands case, “presumption”.
The media here is taking their word as fact. Hearsay and presumption isn’t facts, no matter how much you want it to be.
According to the Rasmussen daily poll, which was the closest to predicting 2016, the approval rating for Trump has jumped to 49%, finally overtaking Obama at this point in the presidency.
https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/prez_track_jan24
As predicted, the clumsy attempt at an impeachment with no crimes helps Trump.
2
It is sad how the republican party continues to subvert the will of the people. They use a little known, obscure, undemocratic law called the “electoral college” to subvert the will of the people and install an indecent dictator who has worked for russian and ukrainian oligarchs for decades. Who do you think funds Trumps lifestyle after four bankruptcies? When democrats try to defend the american people, republicans swear and attack mary louise kelly. They remove US diplomats working to fight corruption because ukrainian criminals asked for her to be removed. Trump does whatever the criminal oligarchs tell him to do.
1
Democrats are “asking you to tear up all of the ballots” by convicting him of high crimes and misdemeanors."
Yes, an impeachment that concludes with conviction and removal will bring to an end the administration of that elected president.
Duh, that is what impeachment is designed to do if the evidence supports it!
It is not an overthrow of an election but a Constitutional protection designed to remove an unfit president.
3
There’s no such thing as “radically different facts.” Facts are immutable. They simply are. Stop giving Trump’s regime an out.
3
If they were overturning the election...
- Gorsuch and Kavanagh would be gone....as well as much of the lower bench
- the trillion dollar hole in the budget would be rolled back
- environmental controls reimposed
- etc. etc. etc.
What an absurd argument. Especially when the impeachment is about seeking to interfere with the will of the people!
3
The facts speak for themselves. The innuendo about not being honest is mostly representational of the Republican defense. They have admitted to seeking help from a foreign power to get dirt on a political opponent, they have admitted to with holding funds to our allies until they publicly announce a fake investigation. Of course the Ukrainian President denies pressure, anyone would who is seeking assistance from a much more powerful source. They have threatened people not to go against them, or they will have things happen.
Mulaney staid it himself "Everyone does it, get over it!!!"
Let's just wonder if any other political figure did this would folks just sit back and say it is ok??
3
Impeachment is the Constitutional remedy to remove a corrupt president. It is not “subverting” an election. The Senate should vote to subpoena witnesses and documents, since the Trump administration refused to honor subpoenas issued by the House, a co-equal branch of our government. We want to hear from Bolton, Mulvaney, Duffey, Blair, Pompeo, Perry, Pence, and Barr.
In fact, we would like to hear from the president. He said he would like to testify. He said he wanted to talk to Special Counsel Muelller, too. He wouldn’t lie to us, would he?
3
Welcome to Opposite World! Where facts are "lies", and lies are "facts". If you claim the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, I will contest that, and claim the opposite, and then demand that you prove your claim. However...we will hold the hearing in a windowless room, without access to books, or any other literature, video or photographs, as well as no internet access. Furthermore, you will not be allowed to call witnesses to support your case.
That's fair, isn't it?
I still maintain the best case the Democrats can make is to keep asking the Republicans: "If Trump were a Democrat, would you still maintain your opposition to witnesses and documents?" Any answer but "No" will be seen as the hypocritical lie that it is by all but the Trumpists. Beyond that, it's crystal clear that all the evidence in the world will not move any Republicans to support a guilty verdict. They have all failed their sworn duty to protect and defend the Constitution and the United States, and are de facto agents of our enemies.
Our democracy has been broken, thanks to the Republicans.
3
As reported by NYT, WaPo, Guardian, etc., on Thursday, October 3, 2019, Trump announced that China should investigate Biden, and linked that statement to his bargaining position in ongoing trade talks. This alone is grounds for impeachment, but somehow, the nearly 30,000 pages of evidence of a similar violation brought forth by House managers, and his request to China, are not enough “proof”. I can’t fathom why this Oct. 3 statement was not emphasized by the House. Conclusion: if the president does it, it can’t be wrong. Sound familiar?
1
Democrats trying to undo the election? Democrats don't like the president? All true.
And then there is the evidence.
1
The argument that the Democrats are "tearing up the ballots" and subverting the "legitimate" 2016 election is a canard. It was the essentially undemocratic Electoral College that subverted the 2016 election, handing power to a man who got almost 3 million LESS votes than his opponent. Trump's impeachment does not correct that grievous error; not even his conviction would do that (Pence would take over). But at least there is a modicum of solace in seeing that our Constitutional system can deliver a major body blow that undoubtedly will have a large impact on the upcoming 2020 election. Assuming there is one.
1
Regardless of this show, I saw Trump obstruct justice on TV, and I read his "transcript" that admitted his attempt at bribery with my tax money. Everything else just supports these action in detail.
To me "American Exceptionalism" was the Rule of Law. The Founders chose Rule of Law over Rule of Monarchy. Treating each person equally allows the talented to rise, regardless of birth, a new idea in that world. Well, that has been going away in this country for a while. And soon that ship will sail.
1
The man was elected. He has been filling the office (clearly not "serving", other than himself) for about 75% of the normal term. All the histrionics from the Republicans about "stealing the election" are simply incorrect; the man has been in office and proven himself to be about as far as you can get from acting as a real President. Once proven to be unworthy of public trust, a person in that office should be removed. It's quite simple and obvious from even a casual reading of the Constitution.
The side that does not want witnesses and documents, would prefer as few facts as possible...obviously want to smear the truth. Innocent people don’t act like that.
Trump, his "defense" and the GOP are masters at projection. They accuse the Democrats and the media of exactly what they are guilty of.....every time.
It's been going on since Trump stole the election in 2016 and becomes more blatant every day. I laugh when I hear the words Trump was "duly elected". More like duel - y elected, with the help of Russia and a minority vote.
1
The Republicans got it wrong. Impeachment is not the Democrats plot to subvert the last election. It's their plot to subvert the next election. With no viable opponent, the Democrats fast tracked the impeachment process in an attempt to get rid of Trump before the pending election. They were in such a hurry they neglected to call the very witnesses they are demanding testify now. The next election is only months away. There is nothing so urgent in removing Trump from office that it can't wait those few months until the next election. If it was so urgent, why did the Democrats hold the articles of impeachment for a month before presenting them to the Senate? This is clearly a partisan effort to remove the Democrat's only competitor in the next election. If Trump is so bad, in a few months he will be replaced in the general election. The rest of America can wait. The Democrats can't wait because they fear the rest of Americans don't think Trump is that bad.
1
No they didn’t. If you watched the same defense I did, they addressed the facts concerning the 2 articles. The rest is irrelevant in court. They actually played video’s of testimonies showing information Democrats edited out. You address the charges in court, the rest of the speculation & hearsay doesn’t matter. Most of the country yawned and didn’t even watch, but the once’s who did realize just how incompetent the Democrat Managers are. It’s over folks. Try again. Meanwhile the rest of us are going to do our best to keep the senate and flip the house back for Trumps 2020 victory. A lot more work needs to be done against the Marxist left.
1
The funny thing is - Trump didn't win the popular vote at the ballot box.
2
Why do we need a Department of Defense when Trump and his Republican colleagues have created a dictatorship in the United States already? A little less than a half of Americans have willingly and peacefully surrendered to Putin's puppet, Donald John Trump. Trump holds himself unaccountable to the Constitution, Congress, the Courts, and the citizens. It is a shame that all those Americans died in our country's wars fighting for Democracy.
2
The GOP argument of "trying to undo an election" is preposterous. Even if Trump were to be removed, Pence and the Republican Party would still hold executive power, at least until the next election and inauguration. And all of Trump's damage would still be on the books.
In a real court of law, with a real judge, these Republican defenders would be shut down immediately. This impeachment is only showing us the weaknesses of the archaic U.S. Constitution and the need for some modern amendments to prevent the onslaught of Republi-fascism in the post-truth era of digital disinformation.
1
It's more frustrating that the New York Times is presenting the Trump defense as somehow credible. They are covering it like it has some kind of relationship with the truth. I mean if they came in singing and dancing like clowns the Times would present it as if that should be treated with equanimity to the Democratic argument. The Trump teams defense is laughable, absurd, disingenuous, and given in bad faith. The Times as supposedly a paper with journalistic integrity should be presenting it likes and equal response to the evidence against the President. It's an absurd defense and the Times ignores its journalistic responsibilities by not making it clear that it is a wholly dishonest defense.
9
@Steve
Indeed!! Notice they use the wild "LIE" in the headline about Iran shooting down the plane, but never, not even once, and 3 years blatant lies have they ever use that in a headline about drumpf.
1
@Becca Helen
Forgive me for the typos in the above post. I was using the microphone, apparently my Western New York State accent is a tough one for Google...lol.
Just the facts, Senators. The Trump team completely shredded the lies put forward by the TDS team. The facts destroyed the Democrats' talking points and showing Schiff's "parody" about the transcript was perfect.
The Democrats are purposely lying to affect the 2020 election. Why? Because not one of their candidates stands a chance against Trump. While liberals praise Schiff, he has been made a complete fool to any reasonable person. Nadler reminds one of a mini-me wannabe. This attempted coup will go down as the biggest political mistake in history.
3
If you buy the defense that the impeachment is a subversion of the election, you reach the conclusion reached by Sen. Angus King: You might as well take a pen and cross out the impeachment clause from the Constitution.
And if you sacrifice your soul to defend a President who acts like a 7-year old child, calling his accusers cute little derogatory names, you really have torn the impeachment clause right out of the original document and violated your oath.
America will soon be in a new place and it won't be beautiful.
8
This is not so.
The Democrats are pleading for the rule of law by asking the elected bodies of Congress to remove this autocratic President from office.
This is calling on deaf ears for now.
..
4
Even CNN is now saying that the Republicans are winning the impeachment fight. Give it up. It’s over.
4
This lie being promoted about turning back the 2016 election is similar to the lie that the ACA would have death panels.
Neither are true.
It’s repeated on Fox News and becomes fact.
4
I can't believe people on TV have called him a "real estate mogul" - when he is only licensing his name to the real owner, and Trump doesn't own the deed to the actual real estate! The way he tries to make a few hundred thousand on secret service room service or a one million dollar ballroom - he is really desperate for money!
2
Can anyone tell me how impeachment is NOT overturning the last election?
2
That’s what happens when you abuse your power, Bill. It doesn’t matter if it’s a job you were hired for or an office you were elected to — if you abuse your power people will call for your removal.
2
@BillC
asking this question proves you would not understand the answer.
Because it’s not going to make Hilary Clinton president. Or even a Democrat at all. That would be overturning the election.
Does that explain it?
One of the several books written on this scandal should be titled, "Profiles In Cowardice."
"...Democrats are “asking you to tear up all of the ballots...”
The majority of the ballots were cast for Clinton. Also, removing Trump will give us another Republican in the Oval Office, Mike Pence.
Have heard a lot of dopey arguments in my 80 years on this side of the grass, but think the legal team defending Trump takes the prize.
10
Why are people commenting as if the "defense" is worthy of any serious consideration. They are merely throwing gibberish and nonsense out there with the knowledge of two things. Firstly, that Americans that support Donald Trump are credulous, poorly educated, racist and couldn't care less about the facts and the law. And secondly, the Senate, by and through Mitch McConnell, has all but guaranteed an acquittal. Who are these people that are debating this as if people in power actually care what anyone thinks as long as they can maintain their power and serve their own interests. Yeah, I know that's not how our democracy is supposed to work. But it doesn't work if truth, facts and law are ignored in favor of absolute power. What surprises me and what I think deserves some debate is why so many Americans elected someone who just about promised to destroy democracy and become a dictator of sorts. Are they that desperate to be subservient peasants? American will only deserve Democracy if it can keep it. The jury is still out but its not looking particularly promising lately.
4
Impeachment and removal of a president necessarily involves "tear[ing] up all of the ballots." It's the only remedy in the constitution for getting rid of an elected but corrupt president. The lawyers demean themselves by repeating this nonsensical Fox News talking point.
4
The charade seen yesterday in the trial is as predicted when the House did not charge Trump with Treason and bribery or at least collusion. The most absurd part was when Trump's attorney broke all rules of courtroom ethics and accused Schiff of lying about Russian collusion. Justice Roberts sat there in mute agreement by silence thereby signaling to the GOP Senators that SCOTUS is on their side.
Had the House followed Pelosi's challenge to Trump that "all roads lead to Putin" and tied the Mueller investigation, Trump's Helsinki love affair with Putin, the Oval office confab with Russian spies, and the blocking of the Manafort -Russia investigation in Ukraine as a quid pro quo for US aide, this trial would be headed in a much different direction. Jerry nadler did an extremely poor job as a chairman and speaker. He was outgunned yesterday.
The recent Parnas tape just amplifies the hidden conspiracy involving Russian agents,Rudy, his goons, Ukrainian manipulation of its energy facilities, bribery and illegal GOP campaign money. The plotters are recorded in an ongoing scheme which included manipulating Ukraine to smear Joe Biden. Just like a meeting of La Cosa Nostra as the godfather, Trump says , I hope we are off the record. This is conspiracy to undermine a foreign government that is fighting Russia. All of the GOP Senators are quislings and accomplices now publicly enabling the Russian asset who won the 2016 election.
2
This impeachment ... will the Democrats, Mr. Trump, America and the world win or lose?
My bet: Mr. Trump will be found innocent in the Senate and he will be re-elected this year. With regard to America and the world, ... well, these are questions related to prophets and / or geniuses. There is another relevant bet: politics and the media will lose, and democracy too. I prefer everyone to win. I hope that in the end everyone wins; and freedom, truth, courage and ethics prevail. I know, I know, I am dreamer, naive and fool.
1
Remind me, please how many “personal lawyers” does Trump have, excluding Giuliani? And how many lawyers will it take to defend Trump’s lawyers when all this is over?
2
Alexander Harrison spends several hours a day attempting to educate others, and be educated, enlightened by them, so Comments page is my way of communicating with the world at large. Nonetheless,I find the lack of substance, ignorance of basic rules of grammar, punctuation, diction as in word usage depressing.Add to that incuriosity, lacunae in one's understanding of the quadrivium and trivium, and the whole picture is discouraging. Don't folks know the difference between common and proper nouns, just one example?Chap who was a retired US Army colonel shared a guest house with me when we were both assigned as lecturers to Methodist University in Dansoman as part of an n.g.o. team and yet he appeared incapable of even writing questions for final exams which he gave to his students.Norman Mailer predicted the end of the novel, but he might have added that the end of writing grammatically was also near. In France they have eliminated the circonflex accent because it confuses students."C'est la fin des haricots!"
1
Don’t you know sentences are separated by a space?
1
So this means that in principle the Republicans are against the concept of impeachment?! Then why did they want to impeach Bill Clinton? And just watch if a Democrat wins in 2020 the GOP will do EVERYTHING to impeach him/her! So dishonest.
After years of developing voter suppression techniques and decades of gerrymandering, how Dare the Republicans speak of "tearing up ballots"?
It is bad enough that Trump and his minions have no shame, but all 53 Republican senators as well? No sense of decency? (Joe McCarthy must be laughing in his grave.)
6
It seems to me that maybe the white house is trying to preemptively overturn the 2020 election?
2
If a president were impeached for committing a murder it would in fact undo the previous election. So the Framers must have had that in mind.
Pure political corruption doesn’t get any worse than the US Senate Republicans of 2020.
5
Unbelievable that out of the whole senate, there aren't at least 4 republicans who want to have a real trial with eye witnesses. Can they be impeached for dereliction of duty?
4
I ate dinner last night with a visitor who lives in Germany. She was very clear: Europe is laughing at us.
1
Imagine what America's enemies have on him if amateurs could do this so easily. Republicans in Congress need to call Impeachment witnesses.
1
We are all entitled to our own opinions but we are not entitled to our own facts.
1
I hate to use words like delusional.
Is Trump going to be removed from office by Schiff and Nadler? Is Kavanaugh sitting on the Supreme Court?
I'm amazed how wide the gap between reality and TDS has become. And how do I trust your judgement on anything?
2
The GOP riposte to DP charges against Trump is pure fantasy. Clearly, the Republicans have no defense for Trump other than the corrupt Senate and their equally amoral, dishonest Senate leader. The Senate then sets Trump free. We, the people, now must vote Trump out. The unfortunate result of Senate actions is the sullying of our Constitution and its founders and the fact that Trump is never convicted of his lawlessness.
3
They can have their own opinions but they can't have their own facts.
2
How about (accurate) headlines that "Trump's Defense team Lies Repeatedly in Presenting their Case"? You think they're playing by any rules? You think they've any scruples? It's Al Davis "Just win, baby" - but the stakes are so much higher! And better yet - you would be stating the truth!
Lie after lie after lie - list them, no commentary needed.
2
This is not a "radically different view of the facts" as the headline states. It is an assemblage of fictions -- spin, deception and outright lies. "Alternative facts," as Kellyanne Conway has dubbed them.
1
I love how the GOPs argument is "We needed more witnesses, but the president is allowed to deny those, so you have nothing." The entire argument is: "But he's a king now tho." Which is the exact argument they are using and the media needs to call them out. Either he did nothing wrong and he sends the evidence to prove it, or you dismiss the need for evidence both sides called for and crown him a king. In which case all dictators that called American democracy a lie... like Putin, will have won.
1
Cipollone has far exceeded the bounds of the role of White House counsel. He has gone where Don McGahn was unwilling to go, that is to the role of mob consigliere and defender of presidential criminality. He should be on trial along with Trump rather than in the defense chair. That he’s being paid by taxpayers is unconscionable.
16
If Trump had a factual defense to the impeachment charges against him, his lawyers would state it. This "defense" is not only false, it shows that they have no real defense for his behavior.
13
It seems the trump lawyers have agreed with trump that any response beyond the name calling, lying and bullying of a sixth grader on a school play ground would be too difficult for the trump fans to understand.
11
I see no reason presented so far that clearly warrants the impeachment of a President, DJT and his outlandish behavior aside. He is and always was a despicable human being but he was elected by due process as the President.
Republicans are by and large trapped by their own inability to speak out when they see his behavior. This due to the fact the constituency of the Republican party is willing to put aside everything they say they stand for and tolerate his boorish behavior.
The Democrats on the other hand are themselves and by their actions and decisions painting a clear picture of being inept on all fronts. The leadership is slimy and weak and the arguments are fractured and can be exposed as hyper-political. The candidates they present make it look more like who will be the survivor rather than the best of the best. They cannot get their base to vote, if they did, they could focus on winning an election rather than wasting the country's time on an impeachment in an election year
3
@B Mc
I would add that just as the media and democrats seriously misjudged the support for Trump in the last election, they are also missing the level of distaste Americans have for democrats, who have put them through first
Russian collusion and now impeachment.
This election will be another eyeopener.
3
There is overwhelming evidence that the Russian government interfered with the 2016 election with the aim of getting Trump elected (unless you believe Putin over all of our intelligence agencies combined). The GOP and right-wing media is doing their best to ignore or downplay this continuing threat.
Now Trump was caught soliciting foreign interference for our 2020 election again. Russia can't believe the return on investment they've gotten out of their 2016 interference and the fact that the current administration is giving them a free pass. And you think we should just cross our fingers and hope for the best this November?
1
It is worth remembering that Trump won the 2016 election only because he cheated to manipulate the electoral college vote: enlisting Russian trolls to circulate false and misleading claims, and lying about his opponent with outrageous untrue statements. It is also worth remembering that the true measure of a candidate's support is the general election, which Trump lost by three million votes. For my money, Trump cheated, as he continues to do, and by any objective measure his election should have been declared invalid.
13
The Framers of the Constitution put the Impeachment provision in as as an instuction to: IN CASE OF EMERGENCY-BREAK GLASS".
They spelled out that this was to be done in case a demagogue assumed the presidency.
This is such an occasion.
12
For all of those people, both military and civilian, who have been wounded or died in defense of the Constitution, I can only say "I'm sorry". You did your duty and it's unfortunate that it can't happen now.
5
Never in the history of our country has a president enlisted a Foreign Nation to help in winning an election for himself. This is the reason his actions are unacceptable.
It has little to do with previous impeachments or much Constitutional theory. That is a diversion. The facts are, by his own documentation of that "perfect" call, that he was speaking to another government and asking for "a favor" that would help him win reelection by dirtying one of his opponents.
That's all we really need to know. He did it. He admits to doing it.
He must be removed because he believes he did nothing wrong and will do it all again.
11
Let's keep the tribal wars going. I can't get enough of this. Let's also just forget we're Americans. We are now Democrats and Republicans and for the sane, Independents.
3
"The House managers need at least four Republican senators to join the Democrats to call witnesses."
Of the 53 Republican Senators, will at least 4 of them have the courage and backbone to vote in support of calling witnesses?
Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski and Mitt Romney have squawked in the past about reservations and concerns about Trump and this impeachment process. Either they should put up or shut up when the time comes to render their vote.
4
As scary as all of this is, it will be even scarier in November when he loses the election and refuses to leave. I'm almost certain that this will be happen. He may even call for a national emergency and cancel the elections. It's just going to get worse.
4
So the best legal minds T and the GOP has hired are saying in effect that the Constitutional provisions on impeachment are unconstitutional because they could result in a president elected by (a minority of) the voters being thrown out of office. I think their law licences should be revoked and they should be sent to remedial constitutional law classes.
9
The president's lawyers did not concoct out of thin air the idea that the main purpose of the impeachment is 'to perpetrate the most massive interference in an election in American history'. It is something that has been repeatedly cited in op-ed columns in this publication, among many others.
For example on 1/21 Thomas Friedman wrote The goal in this trial is not a conviction by the Senate. The most that can be achieved, and it’s a lot, actually, is to convey to the swing voters ... just how much this president is ready to put himself above the law. And, therefore, four more years of his presidency would be catastrophic...
Or in a letter signed by 30 prominent writers to the editor that the terms "bribery" and "extortion" be used "because the 2020 election and the future of our country is at stake" (a recommendation that Pelosi adapted).
And the fact is that just as a prosecutor does not bring a case that no jury would convict on, and his oath does not require him to bring every case he can make, the same is true of a congress presenting articles of impeachment that two thirds of the senate will never remove on. If this was the 1820's where the whole process would have been limited to the eyes and ears of the congress it would have been seen as pointless.
The main thing accomplished with this impeachment is that it now means that the president acted in a way that the House was able to make an argument for impeachment and that this is the wave of the future.
2
Of course the 2016 presidential election will be undone if Trump's Impeachment is turned into a dismissal by the Senate. That's what an Impeachment is... an indictment to fire an official was previously elected. However, the impeachment has been authored by the results of the subsequent election of 2018. In that election, all 435 members of the House of Representatives were elected by a popular vote of all Americans who wanted their voices heard. Then a majority of the House, acting on the wishes of their constituents, voted to impeach Trump.
3
@Mark Technically, the results of the 2016 election would not be undone if Trump were removed from office. Mike Pence, who was also elected in 2016, would be sworn in as President.
2
Follow the money. We’ve learned that this is an effective way to get to the bottom of things. So, has anybody followed the delayed $391 million that we eventually contributed to Ukraine’s war effort?
How much of that money came right back into the pockets of our US war industry for the sale of missiles? Did the delay of delivery of that money make any difference to how it was doled out? In other words, did our arms corporations somehow benefit from the delay?
Sorry for the blind speculation, but it seems that whenever we discover something dicey about Trump’s moves, we eventually discover a hotel being built somewhere or we find money changing hands in the most unseemly ways.
4
This is how I explain the US situation to my European friends:
The USA is a democracy in paper but an oligarchy in practice.
Everyone is cool with these, both democrats and republicans and independents alike.
The problem began when the republicans welcomed Russian oligarchs in the form of Putin and his minions into this playground of wealth grabbing that is the USA.
3
Using real lawyers makes a huge difference, it was a huge mistake letting Schiff lead the case. He is not honest or skilled
3
If elected House and Senate Republicans refuse to abide by their oaths of office in upholding the law and the Constitution....
if they continue to not serve as a check on the Executive, but instead allow and support his every unwise, uneducated act, to the detriment of all Americans and the world, in some ill-conceived scheme to retain power and control of the U.S....
and if appointed Republicans in the Executive and the Judiciary branches do what the President asks, rather than providing neutral and factual guidance so he can make the best decisions for the U.S.....
if the President continues to ignore his responsibility to uphold the law and Constitution, and instead supports unconstitutional anti-abortion policy, racism and sexism, while slashing health care, social security and environmental protection--any heinous thing to win him more votes....
The 3 branches of government, a carefully designed system of checks and balances, will no longer exist.
The U.S. will become a dictatorship or a monarchy, the Bill of Rights, Amendments and Constitution will become meaningless. Americans will be serfs.
And the Senate, right now, embraces this idea.
7
It's been said that GOP senators will protect Trump because they're afraid of him. Perhaps. But when so many others have been implicated by testimony of the witnesses, including Sondland 'everyone was in the loop', is it about protecting Trump or every other official that was either complicit or in agreement with his Ukraine scheme. At the very least, they were aware. The evidence is sure to bring down the whole administration and who is going to support that?
7
“They’re asking you to tear up all of the ballots all across the country on your own initiative, take that decision away from the American people,”
More than half of the American people who voted, voted against Trump in 2016. The American people also elected this Democratic controlled House of Representatives in 2018, overturning the previous Republican majority. The House under Pelosi waited, resisted, until they could not any longer avoid this impeachment. Pelosi did not want to do this.
But somehow when Mitch McConnell did not want to even give a fair hearing and vote to Merick Garland to fill Scalia's seat at the Supreme Court, this was not about taking a decision away from the American people. McConnell and his GOP Senate tried to and did negate Obama in every way he could.
The ignorance and refusal to pay attention of a large portion of the American people who supposedly only care about "kitchen table issues",who not seeing the connection or who blame both sides, is how we get here.
6
The Democrats should fight fire with fire. They need to remind the senators that if they vote to acquit Trump they are betraying their own constituents.
The funds were authorized to help Ukraine defend itself from Russia, and so to help us stay out of a war with Russia. Instead, they were being withheld solely in order to help Trump get reelected. Those funds came from the pockets of the workers in this country and the senate's duty is to spend them for our benefit. But Trump thinks the money belongs to him, so he decided not to spend it unless Ukraine helped with his election. So why are the Republicans now supporting his ability to divert tax payers' money for his own purposes? Where is their loyalty, to him or to us?
There must be many video clips of Trump insulting and disparaging various Republican senators - Rubio, Cruz and many others. Ask them whether they have abandoned their duty to represent their constituents because they are afraid of Trump. I seems they have fundamentally abandoned their obligations to the country, trading that duty because they are afraid that he will retaliate against them. We rely on them to protect our country. They need to do their jobs protecting the people of this country and vote to send Trump packing.
6
To suggest that the Republican arguments on impeachment take a radicalky different view of the facts is nonsense. It has nothing to do with the facts of the case at all.
Most of the GOP case centers on the charge that Democrats want to "overturn the 2016 election" when conviction would produce no such result. Alternatively, the GOP harps on the fiction that the president "broke no law."
Apart from many factors wrong with such a claim (see Lindsey Graham's 1998 opinion on the matter) the clear GAO finding was that the president indeed broke the law. Moreover, the Mueller Report explicitly declined to absolve Trump from the obstruction of justice.
The Republican case is all smoke, mirrors and unrelenting bile. Clinton was impeached for a far lesser offense on the grounds of perjury and obstruction of justice, mafeasances attributable to Donald Trump almost literally by the minute.
9
If elected House and Senate Republicans refuse to abide by their oaths of office in upholding the law and the Constitution....
if they continue to not serve as a check on the Executive, but instead allow and support his every unwise, uneducated act, to the detriment of all Americans and the world, in some ill-conceived scheme to retain power and control of the U.S....
and if appointed Republicans in the Executive and the Judiciary branches do what the President asks, rather than providing neutral and factual guidance so he can make the best decisions for the U.S.....
if the President continues to ignore his responsibility to uphold the law and Constitution, and instead supports unconstitutional anti-abortion policy, racism and sexism, while slashing health care, social security and environmental protection--any heinous thing to win him more votes....
The 3 branches of government, a carefully designed system of checks and balances, will no longer exist.
The U.S. will become a dictatorship or a monarchy, the Bill of Rights, Amendments and Constitution will become meaningless. Americans will be serfs.
And the Senate, right now, embraces this idea.
4
Disappointing that they claim we are subverting the election, when they are subverting the constitution.
8
If a student is expelled from a school, or individual fired from a job, for flagrant and consistent violation of school or work policy- it is not said to be nullifying their ‘admission’ or hiring. The argument of wanting to ‘nullify’ the election is used to fear monger- add an 'us' against ‘them’ into a discussion of a single mans corrupted performance of his job . DTs been in office 3 years- clearly it’s not negating what already occurred- which would have had to go through the courts at the time of the election . DT was indicted and impeached. He is being tried for expulsion/or to be fired from his post by his employers because he’s shown to flagrantly violate and abuse the constitution which he swore to uphold. This is NOT about the 2016 election. It’s about facts of the indictment / impeachment already in evidence, that they cannot refute .
5
Impeachment is all about removal of a President. If the founders put elections above removal they would not have put the impeachment clause in the Constitution.
Can we get to the witnesses. Clearly the President’s lawyers have nothing to contribute.
8
The truth is that both sides are presenting facts, just different facts. The truth is that impeachment is a political exercise. Nixon resigned when he realized he would lose in the Senate. The truth is that the House waited a month before sending on the articles to drum up public support. They didn't move the needle. The truth is they didn't ask for more witnesses and an expedited judicial review of the sure to follow citing by Trump of executive privilege and gave that to the Senate to do to put four Republican Senators in a box for the November elections. Many voters truly see this as a major Constitutional issue and a momentous one for what is right or wrong. The Congress sees it in terms of elections, Committee Chairmanships and power. Power. It would be nice if life was a matter of right and wrong. Maybe in our Houses of worship but not in both houses of Congress.
4
The president tried to extort a foreign government in an attempt to fix the 2020 election. It’s not my opinion; it’s the sworn testimony of those close to the crime.
3
@alan brown The "different facts" presented by the Republicans are also known as "lies."
4
@alan brown
No. The Republicans are lying. Those aren't "alternative facts". In order to truly believe that "the Democrats have no evidence" there has to be a mental problem that is strongly suspect they don't have. No, it is cold, calculating, propaganda lying to persuade the gullible.
5
Hopeless hoopla is what comes to mind with this entire process. But I am glad the senators were able to have a weekend break throughout the process (sarcasm/eye roll/etc)
4
This is not about election, where any President subject to impeachment would have been elected; in most cases without seeking help from other countries. This is about preserving the US as a democracy ... Trump is trying to turn the US into a dictatorship and has to be removed... demanded by the Constitution.
The defence is not even arguing the case but talking about election, which is not part of the articles of impeachment. One has to wonder if the defense team ever passed law school. If they were competent attorneys they would know how to respond to the arguments presented by the House Managers and the Articles of impeachment, with information on why they find the evidence to be wrong, to be hammered out during deliberation and review of the evidence.
31
@ A Grun
Agreed. It seems like the goal is to muddle the issues and confuse the public, rather than to illuminate and clarify. It’s another attempt to tear down the system. The system isn’t perfect, of course. The question becomes, what do we replace it with?
9
Completely agree. The defense team’s argument that this impeachment is about the 2016 election is so spurious it strains credulity and common sense. This is about the president’s actions after the election, as president, 3 years in office. He’s been president. If he is removed (however unlikely this may be), he still will have been president. The defense is doing the only thing they can do: distract and evade, and make cowardly republican senators feel secure and comfortable in voting to acquit despite the evidence.
6
I would love to see a checklist that lists Chairman Schiff’s prebuttal arguments with check boxes (or better yet names) showing just how many of them he got spot on.
16
I don’t get the argument that a legitimate election would be overturned. Wouldn’t that be literally the case, by definition, in every successful impeachment?
34
It doesn’t need to be logical. It just needs to feed into a narrative that plays well with the Republican base so that Republican Senators have cover with their voters in next election.
7
No, only if the impeachment and removal occurred immediately following the election. This “erase the votes” argument is laughably hollow and false. Don’t be fooled.
1
In most cases, the people elect a president they believe will be a good, upstanding, honest leader. If that turns out not to be the case, impeachment and removal from office is the process the Constitution provides for the country to deal with it. The reason impeachment is different in Trump's case -- the reason his defenders are right that removal now would overturn the results of the election -- is because in 2016, the country knowingly elected a lying, cheating, corrupt, ignorant, misogynistic, xenophobic, narcissistic fraudster, and to remove him from office would therefore interfere with exactly what the electorate voted for, and apparently still support.
3
Massive interference in an election? Why is this seen as a problem now. It's certainly not the first time in the last 4 years.
If the process or the outcome create "problems" during the 2020 election, so be it!
5
In other words, the Repubs are accusing the Democrats of doing what the Republicans have been doing for years--subverting our electoral process through gerrymandering, casting citizens off voting rolls, raising the false specter of voter fraud, hanging chads, etc. They now ask a hostile foreign power in public to electronically doctor our electoral process, not to mention carry on false investigations against political rivals.
Gaming and overturning elections has been a GOP specialty for years.
31
Yes, the GOP and especially Trump have honed the dark art of Orwellian double-speak into something akin to Sith poetry, accusing their detractors of exactly the bad acts they are perpetuating. We must be vigilant.
7
For lawyers, or anyone, to suggest that impeachment and conviction of a president negates an election is absurd. The election occurred and trump has stood as president for the past 3 years. Now, in the case of Obama who was not even impeached, the republicans do not seem to have an issue with trump attempting to undo Obama’s 8 years in office. Republicans who feel that the defense has given them cover are just not paying attention, which has been obvious for the entire trump term. We should not have to allow trump to stay until the next election.
23
We are seeing actions by the government of the Republican party not the government of the United States of America. Every one of them is putting party before country. They may believe they have power, but are truly transparently weak.
18
Learned a long time ago that one can be told true facts all day long and never be told the full truth. We can suspect that both sides are engaged in this technique of argument. Time to call the White House witnesses and get the full story.
BTW, while Trump was duly elected he did not receive a plurality. In fact more eligible voters did NOT vote in 2016 than voted for either Trump or Clinton. The claim of stealing an election is a bit of an exaggeration - one might suggest we only had 60% of an election. Americans need to get informed and vote! Otherwise we’ll get results that are a continuation of the same problems as those we now confront.
11
Deny, deflect and divert and very little rebuttal of the facts. If that is the best the Trump defense can do, Republican senators should vote to convict but alas, they will not simply for political expediency and their own political lives.
16
Trump's attorneys can argue whatever they like.
What is disturbing is that they assume that acquittal is a foregone conclusion and are merely spinning to influence public opinion.
Sad days.
17
Trump has been a disrupter, churning up long-held shibboleths that need re-examining. This can have a purifying effect, if we let it.
His trial can churn up more systemic injustices and wrongs, that, with pure intent and sincere motives, we the citizens can make effort to improve on.
Next up in the trial: exposure of the elected official's ties to dark money, their sycophancy to the billionaire class, and their disregard for elections and votes and all that democracy stuff.
At the same time we'll see: the rise of women and people of color in Congress to greater heights of power. The challenge of these elected officials will be to avoid the same problems that affected the white men: bribery of dark money and lust for power, instead they must be honest, decent, professional, just, and courteous.
8
Why doesn't the defense just cave in upon itself?
Logically, it should. Only in a surreal world does the
defense have traction. My wife and I have to almost pinch ourselves to remind us that we have a grounded
reality of our own and that there is this surreal world being played out at the highest levels of our government. It's real. My god, it is real. How can it be so? For all the talk about "evidence" for impeachment where is the evidence that explains what makes this surreal world, real? Are there men, albeit a few women, pulling the strings? Who are they and how do they keep those strings intact? There has got to be an explanation beyond the force of so call cult personality of one. No one walks on water without support. No one. This is not engaging in conspiracy thinking. This is staying grounded in reality and realizing that something is missing, unknown and powerful. What and who is this?
10
@william phillips,
Check out Jane Mayer's "Dark Money: The Hidden History of the Billionaires Behind the Rise of the Radical Right".
You'll find your string-pullers explored and exposed in the pages of her book and, I think, many of your excellent questions answered there.
4
You mean that Hillary Clinton will be installed as president if Trump is impeached? That would be overturning the results of the last election.
16
@cec Good point. Too bad that logic doesn't carry any weight in these arguments.
4
“They have the burden of proof,” Mr. Cipollone said, “and they have not come close to meeting it.”
That's rich coming from the side that obstructed justice by banning certain individuals from testifying and not allowing a plethora of documents to be viewed by the Democrats.
This entire scenario was manipulated from jump street by the Republicans to protect the president from his abuse of power rather than to defend him with information that would have exonerated him.
24
Actually the ballots from 2016 will not be "torn up" as claimed by Trump's legal team, what will be torn up is Trump. Thank you.
10
Dear defenders of the president,
Would it be impeachable for a president to suggest that a foreign government arrest and detain his election-year opponent for rumored corruption in that foreign country? Let’s say while the opponent was in transit through that country on her way to a conference. Let’s say it’s just the president musing on a call with the foreign leader because our president has heard rumors that his opponent may have information about corruption or was maybe involved and he cares deeply about corruption.
That’s not a crime right and it’s in the course of foreign policy so it can’t be impeachable right?
Asking for a friend.
9
Trump is so used to getting his own way, and the others fear going against him because they will not be able to withstand the bullying and name-calling that always comes when someone goes against his 'wish', that they just do it.
You cannot call yourself a victim when you consciously make a choice.
7
"Tear up those ballots" say the Republicans. Ms. Clinton won the vote. The Republicans know not what they say.
1
Schiff complained that the Presiden;t team attacked the prosecutors instead of the facts, claiming that this is what happens when the can't defend their client's actions.
This is misdirection.
The record shows that Schiff has lied on several occasions during this process and his lies allowed a process which should have been halted, to proceed.
His interaction with Ciarmella is unconscionable, and the actions he took to mislead the public and Congress, and to delegitimize Nunes' memo are probably criminal - because he knew the facts and suppressed them.
1
How about some facts to back up those accusations? And not ‘alternative’ facts, either. I’ll be holding my breath.
6
A well-written article. Most Citizens have chosen not to expose their minds to the administration's doublespeaking defense of the indefensible lair and cheat, "the Great Impostor". Trump, and Fox, use the tactic of accusing the majority of the same offense they have, in fact, committed. The "White House lawyers" are presenting an -alternative reality- for those in need of fantasy and conspiracy.
6
Watching this unfold and seeing how our democracy is being basically dissolved for the benefit of an unfit person who was elected by a minority of our citizenship makes me so sick. If he gets off, which seems likely, I will lose all faith in our government and its ability to enforce the rule of law. I am not naive enough to think that corruption isn't rampant all through the government, including with the Democrats, but to see it so blatantly on display and flicking it in our faces like it's a big joke proves that there is no good in our government at all.
14
The obstructionist-in-chief is Moscow Mitch. He vowed to do everything to obstruct Barack Obama, most notably blocking the appointment of Merrick Garland to the Supreme Court.
17
Republicans are trying to overturn the 2018 election.
13
A monstrous, criminal war is launched against a country that did nothing against the US, or 'US interests' with hundreds of thousands civilians killed, millions displaced and reigniting a long simmering sectarian divide, based entirely not simply on unreliable intelligence, but outright, deliberate lies by the Administration.
And that was not enough to impeach the sitting President, had the full support of most Democrats and Republicans both in the House and the Senate.
In this context, the current proceedings are truly laughable.
2
If no witnesses or documents are allowed by the esteemed republican side of the Senate then the entire farce should be deemed a mistrial.
11
This has been a right wing talking point all along and will be used to rally the Trump cultists to vote for Trump is not impeached by the Senate. (As if they need a reason.)
5
maybe it's just me, but so far this defense is looking more and more like another campaign stop designed to keep the moderate gop fence sitters from defecting by filling their heads with the same fairy tales and specious "alternative facts" that trump has used his entire life to escape the consequences of his incompetence and dishonesty.
7
The GOP defense is a classic set up and pay off.
Set up—the Democrats have been subverting the election result since 2016 and this culminates in the impeachment of 2020.
After Trump’s acquittal...
Pay off—so Trump needs to suspend the 2020 election so that he can begin his rule from here onwards.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Trump dictatorship.
8
While Trump supporters claim an election is bing overturned, they are a bit late to be worrying about this. Americans did vote - in 2018 - and they changed the makeup of the Congress. And that Congress is following the will of their constituents by voting for impeachment. Just as the writers of the constitution intended; a two year cycle of elections makes those representatives more responsive to voters.
23
@Pmalex
Just because some folks don’t politically support a President, and even changed the makeup of whatever political party is in charge, doesn’t mean they get to remove him from office.
@Progrowthcapitalism: So, you're claiming that the impeachment clause in the Constitution, which gives the Senate the right to remove a sitting president, is illegitimate? I guess we should remember that next time the Republicans try to impeach a sitting Democratic president. The last time the Republicans made use of the impeachment clause, in 1998, they seemed to think that impeachment was constitutionally allowed. We didn't see them backing down from impeaching President Clinton at the time. No Republicans in 1998 said a word about impeachment "overturning" or "nullifying" an election. They were quite happy to use it as a weapon against Clinton, in fact. I suppose when the shoe is on the other foot, it is more objectionable.
1
The Republicans should not nominate Trump for another term. He is defying every rule and standard that keeps the President, the Congress, and the courts constrained by law and functioning in the service of everyone. Trump is exploiting personal power to intimidate Republican office holders to not honor their oaths of office. It’s like Octavian replacing the Roman Republic with the Roman Imperium while asserting that the Roman Senate was still the ruling body.
268
@Casual Observer Wishful thinking will not give the Democrats the White House. Offer people who voted for Trump, something more than Trump is giving them while pledging to keep the stuff that made him popular (immigration hardline, China as the new geopolitical threat en lieu of Russia, lesser regulations and lower taxes, no individual mandate, etc). Keep all these and offer people what Trump cannot offer them because of the GOP, the public option, lower drug prices, and healthcare prices, and free college tution for the best 20 percent and voila, the Dems will regain the WH).
4
@Casual Observer
He made the US prosperous, our economy an envy of the industrialized world, which recognized him by giving him the opening plenary talk at Davos. And thanking him for bringing much needed optimism to the economic forum. He was clearly the center of the forum.
That is what Trump does, while House Democrats get agitated.
5
@Casual Observer Perhaps we should not confuse President Trump with immoral advisors who happen to masquerade as actual legal advice who work in his best interest.
3
Imagine a murder trial where there are 4 witnesses to a alleged murder. The DA wants the witnesses to testify, but the defense somehow manages to prevent their statements on technical grounds. In the summation, the defense rests their case saying there were no witnesses to the murder, therefore the client must be innocent...
369
@gigantor
Your comment shows how flawed these impeachment proceedings are. The process needs a thorough overhauling.
If this is a test of the checks and balances that are supposed to exist between the Congress and the WH, it has failed.
21
@gigantor because in a murder trial a murder took place. Here there is no evident crime merely a fishing expedition in
search of a crime.
1
@gigantor : Who mentioned murder, homicide? Impeachment, purely political, was based on "oui dires, on dits,"hearsay,and not one of the up tight, snooty diplomats interviewed could vouchsafe anything more than" I presume, opine!"Do you think that condescending fso's testifying about what they think may have happened really go down well with average American families, hard pressed to put food on the table for their families and their pets?Disturbing development in Schiff's presentation was that to drive his points home he felt obliged to show videotaped testimony, like a teacher who feels that in order to keep the class's attention, he has to show them a movie!It's as Schiff were saying,"See, if you don't believe me,"let's go to the videotape!" Sportscaster decades ago, Warner Wolf,used that method, but that was for the average t.v.viewer, not members of Congress!
2
I never imagined this could ever happen in the United States of America. We have seen moments where this evil reared its head like when the election was stolen from Gore, when Citizens United was upheld, when people like Sarah Palin entered the national politcal arena or the Tea Party reared its ugly head but then we would turn the course of the ship and begin to repair the damage. We have been watching for four years as our Republic, our democracy is slowly being diminished and dismantled for corporations, the wealthy and a dictatorship. Sludge can be dumped in our rivers, children can die in cages, a President can lie, manipulate, bully, attack and be entirely unfit and dangerous. This Impeachment trial is the final nail in the coffin of our country. Once this president is aquitted by the Republicans, he will become terrifying. He will lord it over everyone and everything. He will repeat it over and over again. He will believe like he does now that he can do anything and say anything. He will begin false investigations to those who cross him. He will become more vulgar and continue to dismantle our society, our country and our democracy. He will cheat in elections, change rules and laws or just ignore them as he has been. The entire administration is filled with sychophants unfit for the positions they hold. If you think it is bad now...
729
@ana ...and yet our 74 year old mail lady can say today " I wish they would just leave Mr. Trump alone. Isn't he great? He has done so many things for the people". I was aghast, and talked a bit about how his administration is really bad for the environment and that we would just have to "agree to disagree", as I am never going to change her mind. The Lord and Mr. Trump are her heroes. A lot of that in northeast Florida.
105
@ana , I truly fear you are correct. Beginning with the 40% whose unwavering support of Trump to the Republican Senators who look to that base as their only way to retain power (even though it’s for the short term) and finally to Trump himself.
He will be set free knowing that the position he occupies will not, can not be held responsible nor accountable.
Hail to the King.
Woe unto us.
75
Couldn't agree more. What are we prepared to do about it as citizens of our republic?
66
The election took place, Trump won the electoral vote and was duly installed as president. He has served for three years. He has misused his power and is being challenged because of this misuse. No election is being undone.
2113
@Anne W.
Agreed. When will the current Republican party realize that these proceedings are not equivalent to negating the 2016 election?
The Republican party (or the power brokers behind the scenes - we still see you, Charles Koch) are going all in on Trump. They are fortunate that no Democratic contender has shown superior qualities to break away from the pack. By the time the Democrats rally around their candidate, it will probably be too late. And if it is Biden, the election is lost, as the swirling rumors and fabricated (?) allegations will be flamed by the Republicans to scorching intensity.
Conversely, if the Democrats can somehow win, the Republican party will be decimated for a decade or more, as there will be no viable candidate during that time who will not be tainted by association with this administration.
77
I know, right? Of all the things he could have been impeached for, starting with the constant lying. From the beginning. Yet he's been doing his thing for 3 years. No one can take away these last three years, so, another failure of logic.
65
@Anne W.
In fact, if impeached, the current VP would take over! Probably as bad or worse than the current occupant.
42
When you can not argue the facts, argue that it is about overturning the election.
The Republicans have chosen trump over Country and Constitution.
Will any Republicans have the moral courage to ask for the testimony from these witnesses: Bolton, Mulvaney, Pompeo and Pence. Subpoena them and the documents, America deserves a fair impartial trial with all of the facts.
Lamar Alexander, do the right thing.
989
@bob What "facts"? The fact is Trump did nothing wrong or illegal and no amount of "witness testimony" will change that fact. End this ridiculous circus now.
8
@bob Of course the effect on an impeachment is over turning an election...it is was it is suppose to do because it is the sole recourse provide for in the Constitution to get rid of a criminal and unfaithful president!
33
@B. T. don't republicans have all the votes they need to bring forward whoever they want? Under the rules of the trials this seams an option offer only to republican senators , isn't it? ... the guessing is that it might prove to be a risky strategy...would you love for president Trump to testify in person as well?
greetings
18
The Republicans defense so far has said the Presidents actions are not impeachable. They have yet to present evidence to counter the Democrats evidence, including a transcript, and a recording, of Trump leading the plot to extort Ukraine. The transcript, and the Parnas recording is a huge problem for the President. So is what he did to Ambassador Yovanovich, and saying he did not know Lev Parnas. The Republicans disdain for this trial does not dispute facts. The impeachment trial is letting all Americans know what happened with their elected government, and that we’re being lied to by this President on a regular basis. This fact will not go away with an acquittal.
185
@Peter Forester Very true, yet I keep hearing from so many people who think of this as trifling. "Politicians always look for a political advantage." "This was only a small matter with Ukraine, it's no big deal." "This doesn't impact our country, democracy, or the economy." I find it hard to understand how people do not connect this to weakening our democratic institutions. It is going to require much more help from the Chief Justice for this proceeding to have any real impact.
24
@Peter Forester Trump destroys the Republican Party. Purgatory - Expert predict at least 12 years out of office. Massive restructuring job faces the former Party of Lincoln. Integrity, justice come to the fore. America celebrates!
2
@Peter Forester "The impeachment trial is letting all Americans know what happened with their elected government, and that we’re being lied to by this President on a regular basis. This fact will not go away with an acquittal".
That is the precise point the president's lawyers are making. That the sole purpose of the impeachment is to influence the 2020 election, a most cynical use of the power to impeach. Impeachment by a House of the opposing party will now be commonplace, a joke and a mockery of the constitution.
4
The Muller Report was described by Trump's lawyers today as a waste of money. Tell that to all of Trump's cronies who've already been convicted of felonies and sent to jail thanks to Muller's investigation, not to mention those whose futures still hang in the balance because the cases against them are still in the courts. Waste of money? Money well spent!
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@Leigh Yes. The assets forfeited by those convicted by Mueller have actually paid for the investigation.
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@Leigh It wasn’t a waste of money because the government seized Paul Manaforts’ I’ll-gotten gains. Everything was paid for!
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@Leigh Agreed. And much of the report was hidden from us; we haven't seen it.
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I think, the better way to put it, Mr Sekulo, the Democrats can not beat him on cheating. There were 2 million more votes for Hillary than for this president. By quirk of electoral votes, he won by lying, cheating and with help from white evangelicals who made a pact with him, the devil, to get what they want to impose their religious beliefs on running the government even if it’s unconstitutional.
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@Tito --- Three million. Now, look up Trumps appointed "Spiritual Advisor". Purveyor of the "Wealth Ministry". Eye Candy, Married 3 times. My take (from Sinclair Lewis best seller) - "Elmer Gantry" - in drag. Motivation - appeal to the lesser angels present in a segment of the Evangelical Community. Cynical - suspect Stephen Miller ploy. ???
So, in the end, all we have proven is that we are tribal. Oratory is not enough.
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Trump’s being removed from office would not result in the overturning of an election. It would mean the installation of the smug, sanctimonious Mike Pence as his replacement, a man who is deeply involved in the Ukraine scheme and its coverup.
So punishment for Trump, continued punishment for the nation.
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@Bill bartelt One step at a time. Pence - an empty suit. Brief caretaker role.
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@ Bill Bartley
President Pence? Crazy as it sounds, I guess I’m good with that. In some weird, twilight-zone way, that is.
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These "defenders" are obfuscating truth in service to what has essentially become a totalitarian regime. There is no longer a rule of law. There is a quagmire of graft, greed, corruption, and lies. The concealed evidence would make Trump's horrendous crimes clear. Unfortunately, justice loses, because Senators who dare to be honest and forthright against the demagogue will simply not be reelected after Trump turns the base again them. It's painfully just that simple.
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I can’t help but wonder what John Roberts thinks of all this.
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John Roberts is part of the problem. Citizens United completed our shift to plutocracy and Donald Trump is simply a tool of the plutocracy.
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Lame argument. The Framers knew that an impeachment nullified an election when they put it in the Constitution. Anyway, in a real democracy Trump would have lost the election by about three million votes.
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This is gaslighting pure and simple
Impeachment is its own process for abuse of power
It has nothing to do with overturning an election
Equating the two is gaslighting of the American people - at scale, as many will swallow this fabrication in its entirety
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@ Savvy
Another way to look at it is that this is what impeachment is all about. But I get your drift.
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The Republicans including some Senators who were privy to Trump's campaign might be involved in a coup effort.
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Is it any surprise that Trumps lawyer Pat A. Cipollone has, shall we say, another view of the constitution? He's been pushing the view that public school districts have the right to give away public education resources, federal public resources, to offbeat religious cults, for classes attended only by said cult's children. This guy is a piece of work, I tell you. He knows all about lead lawyers for defendants, an independent public school district, against which the plaintiffs sued for violation of the establishment clause of the first amendment. The case was dismissed.
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@Dan Holton Then add Dershowitz - go back in time to the O.J Simpson double murder trial. The bloody gloves. "If they do not fit, you must acquit". A massive fraud on National TV. Fooled the Simpson jury. I see that game plan already in the Republican defense team strategy. There is no direct evidence, you must acquit. Well, evidence aplenty - just locked away by Trump and McConnell.
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The Republican defense is now engaged in giving the American public a PhD in the art of sophistry. We’ll all finally know what the true meaning of that word is by the time this charade is over with.
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The show must go on the show impeachment trial if he had it anything better to do on Saturday and listen to the phony accusations of lawyers defending President Donald Trump a man without integrity or respect a bully that questions must ask self. The 34% vote tea parties and people.
Yes, Pres. Donald Trump will be vindicated not by the truth but lies vipers in His Inner Cir., Nancy Pelosi the House of Representatives Chairman but two articles impeachment but Pres. Donald Trump has done more than these two articles. Can you really call yourself American I cannot see Republicans followers commit to themselves the truth? At the trial is done there will be no witnesses no document no evidence. Because the Republican senators don't want to know about the truth because the truth hurts one Marine said.
The late 2020 October run to the White House Pres. Donald Trump will be preaching that he's the way the great white hope. See what done on immigration children die on the border or the wall Trump across our southern border use of military aid years later that wall will come down from erosion of the seasons a waste of money could help the dying American in a hospital bed.
Their Economy was Obama's saving us from the Great Depression. His foreign Pres. Donald Trump get help Putin of Russia investor and president Donald Trump's hotels. Leave the Kurds to die on the battlefield and Ukraine you have respect yourself as American. Vote out office 2020.
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How have we, as a society, whether Democratic or Republican, come to a place where are no longer bothered by a US President tweeting childish insults and boorish nicknames about our elected officials? And in fact, will likely re-elect him? We really have lost all decency.
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While Rep. Adam Schiff and all House Managers have been magnificent, Trump lawyers have been so far predictable, boring and a bit dishonest.
Democrats did NOT create this impreachment crisis. Trump did ! It is his own doing that put him on this perilious situation.
Personally I do not expect Republicans to do the right thing. But I hope the Southern District of New York will as soon as Trump is out of office on Jan 2021 - God willing!
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Isn't the "radically different view of facts" being offered by Trump's attorneys what's normally referred to as "lying"?
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Democracy dies when citizens don’t stand up for truth.
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Just more proof that Republicans cannot be trusted with democracy or government. Nothing is impeachable for these people as longs as it’s their team. They ignore or outright lie about the constitution to trick their base. They make up farcical ideas out of whole cloth to distract from a crime they do not deny happened ("Democrats are trying to overturn the election!").
The GOP is a poison in the body politic, and Adam Schiff is right: if they won’t stand up for right then we are lost.
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