China is in severe need of a population adjustment and an attitude adjustment regarding their culinary habits.
12
I lived in Tianjin, Mainland China, a few years back and regularly shopped at an open air market.
There is zero quality control in China even in the regular supermarkets near the university where I Iived.
My only surprise is that this has not happened earlier.
Before this ends, many thousands will have died and the Chinese Communist Party and its hacks like Xi will continue to proclaim that all is well, the Party is in charge and no one need be concerned and anyone who doubts this is an enemy of China.
Sure.
156
@Simon Sez
Please note that the CCP has shut down the entire city of Wuhan and almost the entire province of Hubei. This is certainly not a proclamation of “all is well”. Xi Jinping held a meeting with the entire politburo yesterday to discuss the government’s response to the virus. They are certainly concerned and they are telling their citizens to be concerned as well. The response may be viewed as draconian but it certainly is nowhere near a proclamation that “all is well”.
22
@Shawn - Meanwhile, our own president tells us that "no soldiers were harmed", then "they just had headaches" when in fact 34 soldiers suffered traumatic brain injuries.
30
@Simon Sez
I agree. If you are vegetarian it is simple and easy :)
6
Animal-borne pathogens aren't restricted to the animals that only Chinese people eat. Chicken, pork and beef also carry diseases or have the potential to do so, especially when raised on large industrial farms with little government oversight. Using a test of what seems like an "exotic" animal to an American sensibility to determine which animals are safe to eat flies in the face of science and recent experience considering that one of the last major pandemic scares was the H5N1 avian flu.
14
Key linguistic takeaway from the article: "culinary adventure". Adventurism elsewhere of a similar, yet different behavioural nature in all possibility brought the HIV into the human domain.
Given the state-of-the-art nature of science in China, the reckless Chinese meat industry is a deep embarrassment to the nation, and at what cost! Hope the Chinese make the necessary course correction, and allow themselves no further embarrassments and jeopardy.
There are many countries across the globe, where culinary use of wildlife goes largely unregulated, leaving space for outbreak of disastrous epidemics. Hope policy-makers worldwide legislate international obligations in this regard at the earliest.
8
Less than half of Americans get flu shots annually and roughly 12,000 to 50,000 die each year from the flu. I can't see people getting too exercised over a virus that causes illness that is influenza-like.
5
I've read various articles about how the bureaucracy needed to change after SARS and it didn't. Well it needed to change after African Swine Fever in pigs and it didn't. They lost 40% of their food supply (officially) and it's not like it's over by any means.
4
China is also the veggie dish capital of the world. Chefs, cooks, and mothers can help by creating more tufu dishes. The veggie sub at subway is very good, especially with honey mustard. Burger King and many restaurants feature veggie buggers and veggie dishes. Write down what you eat over a couple days to become aware of you diet then try to add more rice, tufu, and carrots. By out if you can, it is very easy to get the a delicious veggie with rice or noodle dish at a restaurant. Let’s get skinny! Let’s get healthy!
7
Just a couple of days ago, s NYT article about smuggling haggis. But, done by culturally advanced Westerners, so totally not gross, totally fine.
13
Perhaps we need to alert customers right here in the US. If they are buying any animal products from ethnic shops with food origins in China, it may be that they might be harboring the virus in their fridge at home here. My suggestion, get US meat products or go vegetarian for a time. Perhaps health authorities can offer suggestions on how to get rid of any meat products. Throwing it in the garbage does not sound like a sound idea.
3
Give it another week or two and face masks and hazmat suits will begin appearing on subways in Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York and Washington DC.
More good business for Amazon.com and Donald Trump who knows a lot about predicting the weather and managing catastrophes.
6
I think the fact that two epidemics, with the potential to go pandemic, arose from Chinese wet markets justifies global concern.
13
While all countries have problems, Chinese fascination for exotic animals for meat or otherwise is outrightly insane. It is an immoral, illogical and unhealthy choice, their reluctance to change is dangerous for everyone on the planet. SARS, Ebola (in Africa), swine flu and now coronavirus are proof of the dangers to humans not to mention the cruelty against animals.
34
For a country that has no problem jailing journalists, writers, artists, activists and ethnic minorities who represent perceived threats to China's autocratic government, it's perplexing, as to why the Chinese have never cracked down and eradicated their countrywide live/exotic animal markets, which pose the real and most serious threat to the health and well being of China's entire population, as well as, that of the world.
22
In an abstract sense polluting the planet with new pathogens is the same as polluting the planet with 'greenhouse' gasses. It is obviously unacceptable to allow 'local customs' to be a continual source of plagues which extend far beyond local borders. If the local government won't or can't clean up such messes, external governments will have no choice but to 'reason' with the perpetrators. At the end of the day this is as true for the drivers of climate change as it is for new and nasty pathogens.
139
@Paul Describing naturally occuring pathogens as pollution seems like a semantic stretch. Certainly, their jumping species, evolving, etc. results from human activity, but this also happens because of widely accepted, Western agricultural practices, not just "dirty foreigners" and their unphotogenic "local customs."
14
Paul,
People bring their culture with them when the migrate to another country; I, like many other Americans, read the labels, if one can decipher food origins to be aware of the dangers of cultural assimilation and appropriation.
I haven’t eaten certain foods from “exotic” countries for decades; just don’t mess with my love of Greek, Indian and Italian foods, please.
Very easy to hide undesirable and culturally unacceptable contents in certain foods.
2
@Paul So the world should "reason" with the largest GHG polluters historically? Where would they start, I wonder.
But you're right - it is all pollution and we should address it in a global fashion. But cooperatively, not with euphemistic terminology. Otherwise you may find the government boot "reasoning" dark places you can't see.
3
The Chinese have a history of repellent animal rights abuses, such as the Yulin dog meat festival, and a horrific reputation for minimizing the need for any kind of animal welfare. So it's not surprising to hear of all sorts of animals crammed into small cages in squalid markets and slaughtered in filthy conditions.
You reap what you sow.
485
This, absolutely. As a greyhound adoption activist, I have followed the situation of primarily Irish greyhounds being shipped off to China after the point of profitability. These dogs are forced to race when elderly or injured, bred relentlessly and, without exception, end up in the meat trade. The conditions leading all the way to, and including, the slaughter itself are the stuff of nightmares. Turnabout is fair play.
117
@Danielle:
I have never been an "activist," but adopted racing Greyhounds have been in my home for 30 years. One is lying at my feet as I reply here.
I was not aware of the dreadful doomed path to which the Irish Greyhounds have been sentenced. Thanks for the information, even though it is making me sick to think about these poor hounds.
64
@DC - good points and remember, innocent animals, all of whom who feel pain, have families and feel emotions are crammed into small cages, tortured and inhumanly slaughtered in the USA and elsewhere, too. Eating fewer animals and more plants is better for animal, human and environmental health.
92
The US and other countries are evacuating diplomats and citizens and Xi has warned of the virus exploding and WHO has been silent since Wednesday. Anyone else find this troubling? What are they hiding? Panic?
8
Their country and their rules and laws. If you don’t like it don’t go there and don’t buy products that are made there Other than that don’t try and push your standards on someone else who doesn’t care to hear about them.
Simple remedy: Let us all collectively decide to stop earting meat! Life is just as rich and tasty without it, promise.
21
The Chinese on African safaris always have two questions: what’s it called, and what’s it taste like.
6
"An article by the Xinhua news agency last fall, for example, said that farming bamboo rats was helping to lift people out of poverty in Guangxi, another southern province."
Correct
As doest coal mining in Appalachia
Neither is good for other peoples living on this planet.
12
I don't think we have to worry about the Chinese government cracking down on markets after this. I doubt anyone will be rushing back to the Wuhan market anytime for a meal.
One night, I went to a local teriyaki restaurant and kept marveling at how tender their chicken was. Later, I spent 12 hours in my bathroom hurling my guts out as I figured out their secret - undercooked bird. I would never step back into the place even if a sign said "under new management".
I think this outbreak will leave a mark on the minds of many folks for at least a generation without any regulations. Meanwhile, back to my own U.S. grocery where just about everything is tainted - the lettuce will kill you, the animals are pumped full of hormones, the grains are GMO, everything is wrapped in plastic, and the cans are full of BPA. It makes us all sick so we have to go find a doctor which will cost us everything we ever made.
12
I watched a USA movie called, Viral, (2016) on TV last evening, fiction sort of crossing over into this situation and there was a clip of them watching TV news that showed Obama saying the virus isn't as bad as an airborne virus. If it was airborne the government would be concerned. Eerily relevant at the moment! There is no cure for this virus.
3
Not satisfied with driving the world wide extinction of animal and marine life unchecked Chinese appetites move on to threaten human life as well. Maybe we deserve it but it would still be wise to turn the tide.
18
Chinese are not living any closer to wild life than we are. Coronavirus aren't transmitted by eating. Get your scientific facts straight before bashing an ancient culture.
3
One day, probably in the near future, human cruelty and stupidity will come together in such a way as to create a lethal menace that is beyond containment.
Don't bother to buy a mask.
21
You just have to watch those 'Border Control' programmes for Australia and NZ to realise that the people bringing in these illegal imports hidden in their luggage, just don't care.
6
Humans treat animals with complete contempt, then humans get sick from it. We've seen this many times before, and not just in China, although this is becoming a pattern there. The CJD crisis in the UK was caused by feeding cows sheep brains and spines, to save money. The foot and mouth epidemic was caused by feeding farm animals slop from takeaway restaurants. More than 100 million pigs in China have had to be destroyed due to African swine flu.
Our species relationship with the rest of the animal kingdom is horribly pathological, psychologically and physically.
34
Great writing Steven Lee Myers. Thank you.
2
Wouldn’t it be ironic if the Chinese, who have no compunction about killing the last rhino for horn, “milking” bears for bile their entire agonized lives, and raising tigers in “parks” for eventual slaughter for body parts, end up themselves reduced as a population by diseases transmitted from the exotic wildlife that they killed for “medicine”?
36
I had mentioned this connection in a post the other day. For an excellent, more in depth look at animal to human diseases, read science writer David Quammen’s “Spillover.” It’s very readable and pretty scary.
4
eating game meat is and has been a Chinese tradition for thousands of years. do you think its going to change overnight? Sars 15 years ago proved that it won't and probably never will .Please, isn't evident to all by now that cultural traditions ,religions and superstitions outweigh and will outlast science and modern medicine? even in the U.S. the antivaxxers are proving my point with the NJ and Oregon legislatures bowing to the rabid antivax factions. it only take one sick person to start an epidemic.. I think most people would rather get ill or die than to give up their traditions whether religious or secular based. These kind of markets exist throughout Asian and Africa.. Ebola Virus anyone?
12
China has an education problem. Eating snakes, bats, weasels, badgers, civet cats, and so on will not bring good luck, good fortune, or sexual prowess, or anything other than misery for the rest of the world.
These markets are, as the Walzer said, a perfect laboratory for pathogens.
Instead of building a hospital in 6 days, why not build a better world by ending the ignorance which led to SARS and this new coronavirus?
24
My first question as a vegetarian is “Why does eating bats sound like a good idea?”
13
I never buy any food, drug, or even toothpaste from China because of safety concerns. If some Chinese business people can sell tainted baby formula in their own country, do you think they care about Americans?
28
If you eat meat in the US your are outsourcing the killing and butchering of said animal. I would argue that killing the animals you eat by your own hand is a more respectful way to consume meat. So please relax on the "holier than thou" comments on how barbaric it is to kill the food you eat.
10
Chinese consumers drive demand for illegal trafficking in endangered wildlife. Examples: rhino horns, Asian and African elephants for ivory, tiger and bear organs, pangolin meat, leopards for trophy and medicinal body parts, and tortoises for remedies and meat. Without this massive illegal demand, our wildlife would not face extinction. If wealthy Chinese want a status symbol, why not a Bugatti or Rolls Royce?
24
I’m stunned at the righteous comments from those who eat factory farmed animals daily: check yourself.
17
One foot in the dark ages and one in the present ..What do they expect to happen ?
5
The barbaric horrors inflicted on all manner of animals, including the rampant dog meat farms, in China is a travesty, in no small part due to their insatiable lust for animal protein, in whatever form.
Can we expect another zoonotic disease outbreak to finally change mindsets and practices? If the response to SARS is any indication, these markets, with all their attendant hygiene violations and animal welfare abuses, will be back in business when all dies down (pun intended).
9
This is just going to bolster the black market for these kinds of wildlife delicacies.
2
Sharks, Rhinos, Elephants and so many other wild species are fast disappearing because of the rich Chinese who consume them with a grin of irresponsibility and lack of respect toward God's creation. Men have dominion over the Garden of Eden, yet they destroy it for money and this is what happens when Chinese society eat what should be protected and sacred. Moses gave a list of the animals we shouldn't eat. Just like all plants are not good for humans all meet are not good as well
13
I wonder what’s in the sausage in those markets. Someone offered it the other day and I politely declined, citing an fictional Episcopalian fasting period.
7
yes. stop eating dogs, panda bears and monkeys. i believe that you will have 50 percent of the problem solved.
11
Chinese culinary practices like this are barbaric. Our Dark Age ancestors would feel right at home. Until these primitive practices are ended, more epidemics like this and worse are on the horizon.
11
Oh look. Western liberals are given a peak at long standing, culturally normative, every day eastern eating habits. Only this time it’s not the 5 star review of a new restaurant in Gramercy importing “important” Cantonese flavors, but reporting on how every day people eat animals, all kinds of animals. The reactions here are classically hypocritical given the conditions most livestock in this country face before the lights go out. Anyhow, an old joke I learned when traveling in northern Vietnam seems appropriate. The only thing with four legs that the Chinese don’t eat is the table.
18
Before we get too sanctimonious about the Chinese wildlife markets,can we acknowledge the tremendous risk of disease from American factory farms, including salmonella poisoning and swine fever fever as well as mad cow disease.
21
The Chinese government should long ago have shut down markets such as the one in Wuhan and festivals where dogs are skinned alive. Indifference to the suffering of animals is not without consequence.
15
Why do people have to eat meat in the first place? Have you heard virus jumping from broccoli to spinach and spreading like a wildfire? Worst you can get is gas or diarrhea from human handling the produce the incorrect way. Unfortunately, this is nature showing it’s wrath on human eating habits.
7
"At the peak of the SARS outbreak in 2003, the authorities banned the sale of civets and culled the existing stocks, but within months they ended the ban and trade had resumed as before".
This is a tragedy, it looks like the Chinese did not learn anything from that SARS outbreak.
Now the Corona virus, one more thing the Chinese are going to export to world market. We do not know how many people died in China due to the corona virus, the Chinese are not going to report that. I am happy that the CDC in Atlanta is closely monitoring this respiratory illness.
SARS, MERS ( Middle East Respiratory Syndrome) and the new Corona virus ( 2019nCov) all have the potential to cause severe respiratory illness, pneumonia and even death.
When there is so much of fresh fruits and vegetables available in China and many Chinese practice Buddhism I cannot understand this craving for all exotic animal food, even dogs and cats are not spared in China.
' “One must be mentally sick to eat game in order to show off and flaunt,” I agree with that
12
The only good I can see coming out of this is for Xi Jinping and the almighty seven man politburo to use their authoritarian powers to shut down the consumption of exotic meats, including dogs. The scientific case for it is strong and if nothing else, a country looking to be at the cutting edge of modernity and global leadership should look to shed an antiquated and distasteful tradition. If the Chinese are able to give up foot binding, they can give up exotic meats.
11
I’ve walked through these wild markets in Guangdong province before at a young age and it’s alarming how the animals are treated. They’re alive in tiny cages and it’s so sad. I still have nightmares about what I saw.
17
Absolutely disgusting, loathesome appetites only for food with "magical" properties but for unimaginable cruelty. Maybe pathogens arise to try and rid the planet of the worst species of all: humans.
The suffering of animals, including those used for fruitbat soup, is incalculable. But there is karmic revenge waiting in the wings and karma is patient but resolute.
14
@HotGumption
I agree that the suffering of animals is incalculable.
However, using the terms of disgusting and loathsome describing the consumption of animals with "magical" properties, implies that "they" are worse than consumers of other various meat products.
As other commentators have indicated, the industrial model of animal industry inflicts just as much misery and produces similar environmental and public health costs/risk.
7
Wet Markets, just sound filthy. As long as the CHinese government continues to allow and turn a blind eye toward the controversial wildlife trade and consumption of live animals in the name of respecting “culture,” SARS, MERS, corona virus outbreaks will continue. Temporarily banning the wildlife trade is a drop in the bucket and will not help. Many Traditional Chinese medicine practitioners have already abandoned the use of endangered species animal parts in treatment, yet quackery still exists and the direct trading occurs in neighboring countries where the smuggling of animals can easily be brought to China. In addition, viral videos of young Chinese eating “bat soup” etc in the midst of the coronavirus outbreak (one in particular was shot in China, but claimed to have been made in Palau) clearly demonstrates the stupidity, and selfishness of a few who think they are above Mother Nature’s wrath, as well as science. I also will not limit the existence of wet markets solely to China, as they also exist in other Asian countries ie Philippines as well. When will some humans ever learn about the balance of nature and perhaps, so-called “ancient” practices and superstition may need to be Re-evaluated, especially when an increasingly wealthy Chinese population can travel to areas and infect those like myself of Asian descent who want to hurl at the thought of consuming civets and wolf pups. Please stop trying to cage and farm what was meant to be wild.
10
Wildlife may turn out to be a red herring. One of the first people to contract Wuhan Coronavirus was a man who sold pork in the Wuhan market. New research suggests the Wuhan Coronavirus can infect swine: https://www.scribd.com/document/444194430/Pork-Pigs-and-the-Wuhan-Coronavirus
2
Seeing Chinese make #rejectgamemeat go viral is a positive development. The government needs to step in, and shut down these markets which feature conditions leading to development of deadly viruses.
10
Our insatiable bloodlust and disdain for other animals is coming back to haunt us. Well, it's nature balancing things out again. We don't need meat, we are primates. If we continue this course, we will make our own species extinct in a few generations. A plant-based diet and mindful living are the least we can all do. China, you especially need to have a cultural revolution;
7
Speaking of animal-borne diseases, it’s an established fact that Europeans brought smallpox and other pathogens that wiped out indigenous populations here in North America. So when you righteous Americans declare that that Chinese, who don’t hug animals like you do, are so abhorrent that they deserve what come to them, you need to look at yourself, and just because animals are not recognizable as animals in your supermarket packages, it doesn’t mean the animal protein per capita consumed here is not still higher than that in China, and morally speaking your farm animals have the equal rights to live as your pet and the romanticized wild animals. The bottomline is that this is a scientific issue, not an ethical question.
6
The costs to China of keeping these markets is far too high. Whatever pleasure people get from eating bush meat or flaunting their wealth by eating diseased exotic species is far outweighed by the hundreds of billions of dollars and lives lost that ensue from the diseases that originate and spread from these markets. It makes no sense to keep these markets.
India, which has many vegetarian people, does not have these kinds of markets is not a source of diseases like those that arise from Chinese markets.
10
How many human deaths will it require to end the cruel wildlife trade?
8
I’m 74 but not panicking because via an NIH article I?discovered a powerful, natural anti-viral, anti-bacterial pill out of Germany called Angocin Anti-Infekt which has saved me and hubby from everything from a flu superbug to stubborn UTIs. Years later I am never without it. It’s made of horseradish and nasturtium. We send to Germany for it because it’s not available in the USA. If you can’t get your hands on it, buy raw horseradish and make a tea. There are recipes on the Internet. Nature often has its own cure for the problems we help it create.
1
It's amazing that the omnipotent chinese communist party has not been able to get rid of deep rooted cultural superstitions prevalent in popular chinese medicine and cuisine. Or were they not willing out of fear of a furious backlash ?
5
Well, look at the freedoms of the American constitution and yet millions of Americans would toss them aside for a Christian theocracy, based on ancient beliefs and rituals.
4
Some free education for those hypocrites decrying these markets for being “cruel”: Factory farms in the US are vastly, vastly more inhumane and cruel than any open market. And the scale of killing in a factory farm is many orders of magnitude larger. Americans consume 4x as much meat as Chinese do per person. So Americans cause much more animal suffering than anyone else.
Astonishing how this society is so blind it condemns a few thousand animals in foreign open markets while cheerfully eating millions of animals raised in mechanized slaughter pens.
10
I think it would be far more productive to focus on the unsanitary conditions created by a somewhat illicit trade market rather than the products of consumption. Pigs poultry and caws poorly, can be hot beds for infectious diseases. Remember mad cow disease in the UK?
1
Factory farming ... caging massive numbers of animals in crowded spaces. It’s all bad. Eat less meat, your body, the planet and the tortured animals will all thank you.
5
Americans eat and hunt dear and other forms of wild life. I wonder if that is safe..
1
Definitely. Be careful gutting.
2
I see the taint of ethnocentrism in this article. How many people die of salmonella infection every single year? And yet I've never seen any outcry to ban the commercialisation of poultry. It's the unfortunate fact that any activity in our food production chain may lead to sanitary risks. Why are we singling out the Chinese practices as particularly dangerous? I'm yet to be convinced than by any *objective* measure they are.
4
It should be remembered that in the distant past, the people of this nation were never more than days from death from starvation and as a result they've developed a mindset that "we'll eat anything to survive" ......this permeates their culture.
While in China a few years back I well remember street markets where skinned rats were offered up as food , along with other unidentifiable creatures.
2
China should realize the cost of epidemic and act to prevent it.
2
And for those careful shoppers who read labels, lots of food products from China fill the shelves of American supermarkets like Walmart.
5
An American who lives in both China and the US talked about the epidemic in his Youtube account. One thing he mentioned was that the government regulations are strictly enforced...when a higher up is there watching. Once they leave, enforcement might slack off.
There is the proverb Tian gao, Huangdi yuan "Heaven is high and the emperor is far away". What the emperor doesn't know won't anger him I'd say
1
“Overlooked, underpoliced, and highly lucrative, international wildlife trafficking has become a low-risk/high-return illegal trade estimated at $7 billion to $23 billion annually. While China’s share of this trade is unknown due to the trade’s illicit nature, China is widely recognized as the world’s largest market for trafficked wildlife products. As the Chinese economy has grown, demand for wildlife products—including endangered species—has increased, contributing to the decline in populations of iconic species such as elephants and rhinos, as well as lesser-known species. Three factors play into Chinese demand for wildlife products: (1) wildlife products are valued as status symbols; (2) wildlife products represent a financial asset with stable or increasing value; and (3) wildlife products are perceived to have health benefits related to traditional Asian medicine. Until recently, however, public knowledge in China about wildlife trafficking and conservation efforts has been limited.” Dec. 6, 2018 staff research report by USCC.gov.
4
Will humans never learn? It’s time to end the practice of eating animals, for our own sake, the animals’ sake, and the sake of our planet.
4
These markets should be permanently shut down.
5
A Chinese friend of mine, 3 decades ago told me that Chinese people ate every under the sun with two exceptions, flies and spiders. I also know that some people in the Amazon eat the meat of giant tarantulas roasted in leaves. They ate only the meat from from the legs, only after removing the fine hair from them because the are very irritating. It may be time to establish some new and improved Kosher rules and taboos to change some eating habits witch, with global trading may lead to the spread of deadly pathogens witch were confined to specific areas. It is almost certain to see more devastating pandemics in the near and distant future.
3
Thanks for far more information than I've seen elsewhere on the Chinese live meat markets.
You've got one thing wrong; if you look on last week's article based on the sequencing of the "new virus", it IS SARS with minor genetic variations. They could have happened in the last 13 years or existed in the host animals. That chart says it and most other corona viruses are bat viruses; a coronavirus seemingly has to really work at being called a different animal's virus, like human.
Also, they REALLY need to do epidemiological bloodwork on the people of the cities where this virus and its SARS sister have been recognized, and find out exactly what kind of a problem SARS is. Even Ebola turns out to have infected far more people than ever knew they were sick, making it less likely to kill you than thought. My favorite is West Nile; anywhere between 5% and most people in large parts of the U.S. have had it and never knew they were sick, so only a small number of people who catch it are ever diagnosed. In both the U.S. and China, you don't go to the doctor with a cold or minor flu.
2
Not surprisingly, the vegetarians and vegans immediately take the opportunity to hit their virtue signals button. And the commentary on the Chinese abhorrent treatment of livestock which challenges Western sensibilities is predictably Euro centric. Let us not forget that the US is the world's largest source of industrialized meat production, resulting in arguably exponentially worse treatment of animals than the experience of an open air market. Ever seen how your burger gets made? How about that roasted chicken? There's no open air market for those poor animals. Just because we're not eating bats doesn't entitle us to pass judgement, and certainly doesn't give us carte blanche when it comes to the ethical treatment of our livestock.
14
There is a report of a Coronavirus shipment stolen from a Canadian lab in March 2019 being shipped to China. The virus originated in a Saudi man in 2012, with samples sent to Rotterdam and then to Canada.
Thee presence of a level 4 containment lab in Wuhan leaves open the possibility that this is more than a naturally occurring virus. China has had viruses escape from labs in the past.
4
The practice of the Chinese eating wild animals, some of them endangered species, has to end. Not only is it cruel and inhumane to these innocent animals, but it's endangering the public health of not only people living in China, but around the world. It's no coincidence that the source of most global epidemics is China.
Maybe if the U.S. and other nations curtail commerce with China until it stops inhumane practices and threatening global health, it's government will get the message. (not likely that will happen of course, given corporate America's thirst for cheap labor)
16
While I eat meat, I don't condone eating exotic animals, from both health and moral perspectives - some vegetarians may use this to argue their case of forfeiting meat based diet altogether but it may not be possible from both historical and economical perspectives - it is important China and elsewhere (Ebola was said to be Simian in origin) need to teach their inhabitants to alter the habit of eating wild lives and especially exotic animals.
Coronavirus may sound more contagious but people should understand it is because Wuhan is a major hub of commerce locally, nationally and internationally
5
“… and growing questions about why so little has changed in the 17 years since SARS.”
Thousands of people every day shop in markets shown and live to tell about it or don’t bother. You could not too long age read about lettuce from Watsonville, CA shipped around the USA polluted with fesses from domestic livestock found in the water supply. Food can be dangerous; China has replicated FDA found stateside in recent years but enforcement likely as lax.
The term wild animals has little meaning if it’s editable it has also been domesticated; but bats do run free.
What cause Wuhan Coronavirus was destroyed in over vagarious decontamination so we may need another 17 years.
China is modern only with speed trains, high rise buildings, electricity and sewage treatment plants. In the backwaters and country side, life is still backwards. Personal hygiene is lax, markets are dirty. Animals are slaughtered right in the stall, which Chinese believe in freshness as quality and for food safety. As one can see in the photos meat is put out in open air without refrigeration with flies buzzing around, a pefect health threat situation. Chinese government should start banning live and wild animal meat altogether and with penalty for violators. World Health Organization and other countries that have been affected by these outbreaks should exert pressure on Chinese government to stop the trade altogether. This move if successful would stop the killing of wild animals for food and medicinal medicine and elimination of the threat of animal extinction, e.g. African Rhinos.One more action the Chinese government should take is through education and the enforcement of hygiene in meat selling markets.
13
The progress China has managed in recent decades has been a result of taking on Western-style institutions. It's continued failings all seem to come from the areas where they retain their archaic 'culture'.
3
For the past 40 years, I have been almost a vegetarian (I do eat fish about once per month). I refrain from eating all other flesh primarily for health reasons but also because killing animals is repulsive to me. Therefore, I have little sympathy for people who suffer problems from eating meat and no sympathy whatsoever for people who murder the animals. In a sense, their is a cruel justice inflicted by these diseases from the wild animals who have been captured, murdered, and eaten by the Chinese. That justice being meted out by the murdered wild animals would not bother me except that the diseases spread from the wild animals don't limit themselves to attacking just the people who murder them or eat them.
7
I'm skeptical that China's telling the truth, surprise surprise.
The Wuhan coronavirus could very well have originated from Wuhan's maximum-security biolab and the "official" numbers are probably orders of magnitude below the real ones.
China is not trustworthy. When will we realize this?
9
“… and growing questions about why so little has changed in the 17 years since SARS.”
Thousands of people every day shop in markets shown and live to tell about it or don’t bother. You could not too long age read about lettuce from Watsonville, CA shipped around the USA polluted with domestic livestock waste found in the water supply. Food can be dangerous; China has replicated FDA found stateside in recent years but enforcement likely as lax.
The term wild animals has little meaning if it’s editable it has also been domesticated; but bats do run free.
What caused Wuhan Coronavirus was destroyed in over vagarious decontamination so we may need another 17 years, but there is some talk of regulating wild stock sales for what that is worth.
1
An article in The Guardian about the coronavirus last week quoted a source who said the Chinese people "don't care about animals . . . don't believe they are able to feel pain or suffering." This indifference contributes to the way these animals are treated by farmers, traders, retailers and customers. It's a dismal, brutal situation. Not that farmed animals are treated well by any culture, once the truth behind the scenes is exposed by investigators. If we care about animals, we won't eat them. There's a growing abundance of plant-powered foods toward which we as a species must progress. We do not need to make animals suffer in order to be healthy and well-fed.
16
@Karen Davis
You must not say or even imply that there are different cultural values that have moral connotation. That is an absolute no-no in left wing America regardless how true it may bel
2
And modern chemistry can make plants taste like all kinds of meat. Here is to eating Soylent Green.
1
Of course there should be a global ban on the commercial sale of wild animals even more so in these markets. Some people are finally starting to wake up. The sale, slaughter and consumption of wild animals is a ticking time bomb and it’s going to blow up in our collective face if behaviors don’t change.
24
Now that we know what conditions create potential for microorganisms to jump species to human, and/or to mutate into human pathogens -- let's all countries work together to set rules and regulations we can all abide by to prevent such deadly disease the opportunity to grow.
18
There is great beliefs in China that eating wild animal can boost vitality ( amongst children and old people. This practice has thousands of years of history, but in modern society, when the risk prevailed, this behaviour should be abandoned ( start from high offical ).
If China to be rejuvenated, it must get rid of this practice.
44
@W. - curious. Why no outbreaks of viruses over thousands of years of practice but now? People learned during that same time period that if you cook your pork rare like your steak, you will get sick. Any thoughts as to why things have changed and suddenly an issue? Are the animals themselves getting sick from the environment?
3
I am sure that the president and the Chinese people, once they decide that the himan toll and risks are not worth it, they will ban such markets and all associated practices. In some parts of Asia, It used to be like this but no more. It really depnds on will power, the Chinese government has the political power to change this and quickly too.
12
This is sarcasm, isn’t it? Because you are not going to get small markets all over China to listen to reason. Not with thousands of years of tradition behind them.
Outlawing the trade will only increase the prices.
4
China exports many foodstuffs and commodities: garlic, vegetables, meat, spices, candies, etc. Many of these items are imported to the USA. The lack of oversight; lack of control over application of pesticides, insecticides, fungicides, microbicides can and will expose the consumer to a host of pathogens & toxins.
Human waste is commonly used a fertilizer in China & Mexico. Determination of the country of origin is oftentimes impossible as our FDA (under the GOP-lead streamlining) has made disclosures opaque. The benefit of the virus spread will be to reduce the human population to a manageable level ~2 billion. So eat up and enjoy your meal.
75
Don’t forget your vitamins and generic drugs - most come from China, in whole or in part (active chemical ingredients) Let’s not exclude pet food and pet treats. Read the “refusal reports” by authorities in the U.S., Japan, Singapore and Taiwan. And never, ever, buy baby food or infant formula from China.
40
@Richard China, though, has devised an ingenious method of ridding their country of radioactive waste. Incorporate it into everyday household items and export those to America. Google 'radioactive cheese graters'.
17
I wouldn’t be surprised if this would reduce the world population, after all this is how nature works. It will also take care of global warming. Why do we need 7 billion people in the world Just for the sake of 7 billion? Is this the case why not 14 billion… Or 28 billion? Maybe 2 billion would be perfect?
1
If the Chinese were Kosher this would not be an issue.
47
That makes no sense. Prophylactic use of antibiotics in farmed animals - one of the key sources of antibiotic resistant bacteria that kills people - is equally a problem with animals ultimately slaughtered under kosher laws. And what about those chickens kept in close quarters in cages so they can be tortured at Yom Kippur? The only answer is to #govegan.
1
@Tullymd - :) No, they would just be dying from measles instead:)
1
@Meme Just because the meats are called kosher doesn't translate into the fair and healthy treatment of animals. A meat inspector in Canada told me that kosher slaughter houses are as filthy as the none kosher. There goes dawn the drain the myth about kosher foods. I became vegetarian simply because of the mistreatment of farm animals. I still enjoy once in a blue moon, a fillet minion from grass fed caws . A huge difference in taste and tenderness.
2
How can people purchase wild animals and then take them home to butcher? This is barbaric, and cruel to the animals from the point of capture to butchering. And all for prestige and imagined health benefits. The Chinese society does not respect animal welfare, and in this sense differs from advanced western cultures.
88
@Robert
What do you think happened here in the USA before refrigeration? Perhaps that's another reason for keeping the animals alive until ready for cooking?
5
Advanced western cultures?
1
I salute the brave Chinese activists working against these sad and dangerous practices — alongside the environmental/climate change heroes!
211
The NY Times reports that China has suspended tour groups traveling abroad.
This implies their government is very worried about the consequences of more infections being reported outside of its borders.
If a major outbreak occurs in another country or countries, the United Nations WHO agency will finally be forced to declare a global health crisis and China all be held accountable, the last thing China wants.
It would be a PR nightmare and there might even be calls for outside intervention and oversight committees, these are consequences the Chinese government fears most above all else.
If China can keep the WHO out of its backyard, they can easily fix the numbers of infections and fatalities to downplay the severity.
If they can keep the infections contained to their own shores, with no further infections being reported from overseas, they can continue to maintain a firm grip on how they choose to run their own affairs, which may or may not have any appreciable impact on the open-air meat vendors and the sales of endangered species.
This is all about political maneuvering as far as I'm concerned.
22
@Larry Chan Political issues aside, where is the accountability? Why does it even need to come to a global organization like WHO to intervene? Everything from these population threatening outbreaks to scamming people on eBay/Amazon, China as a country lacks ethics and morals from a humanitarian standpoint. I understand every country has cultural norms and customs but it seems the people of China has a general lack of compassion toward animals and each other, let alone the rest of the world.
2
The World Health Organization seems slow to act in this case; makes one wonder if they are slow to act due to deference to China.
Instead of just focusing on Russia, it would be wise to reflect and act on the influence of China and their influence in the developing world; Ukraine is not the only country that Americans should focus on, but I am more concerned about China’s influence in Africa; they have basically infiltrated Africa and cajoled them with cash; why isn’t America concerned with China’s influence in Africa; could influence be a factor in why the WHO is slow to act on this contagion.
@Larry Chan
I agree. And, clearly the WHO has been in China's pocket all along. The only reason the WHO didn't last week declare an international emergency is that it is just another corrupt UN agency that executes 3rd world political agendas.
It surprises me that in this day & age people continue to slaughter animals. It’s cruel, full stop.
265
@Alan Please let's not pretend that all behavior is the same. The pandemics are starting in China, not in the US, not in Europe and so on. Humane practices are key, and that means any that are counter to old-fashioned religious practices that do not take into account the pain of animals. Perhaps the day is coming when we no longer eat meat, but all the same, the cause of this outbreak has nothing to do with the slaughter of animals for food in the US or most other countries. This is a repeat of other problems China has had because of lack of regulation that would protect many species that are not traditionally eaten elsewhere.
21
@Alan Then McDonald's, Burger King, Texas Roadhouse and all other American restaurants serving meat should change their menus to all vegetarian or just close down. NOT everyone is or can be vegetarian.
3
Point taken. Let’s also not pretend that there is a humane way to slaughter a sentient being. From the perspective of the slaughtered, such a thing does not exist. We create this fantasy to rationalize and minimize what we do.
15
True, population grows everywhere, but these Chinese market conditions and eating habits pose high risks for these zoogenetic viruses spreading to humans. And what about animal suffering. Keeping animals alive in enclosed and unhealthy spaces to slaughter right before selling for fresh meat should be banned and controlled by authorities, in China and elsewhere. This is not a poverty prone area, there is no reason to keep this unhealthy habits risking the whole world population to fall under a deadly disease just by cultural practices. Very angry about this happening.
461
"Keeping animals alive in enclosed and unhealthy spaces to slaughter right before selling for fresh meat should be banned and controlled by authorities, in China and elsewhere." I hear what you are trying to say, but you do realize that has been common practice since the earliest day of villages in virtually all western countries? I think it happens everywhere to this day not just in China because non-fresh meat is a whole other problem....
6
Not only are they causing undue suffering to wildlife, they are decimating the environment. Pangolins eat insects which reduces the need for pestisides and allows farmers in poor countries to live. Killing off sharks disturbs the eco systems in the oceans, eating certain fish bladders (from Mexico) causes other sealife to die ( smallest porpoise in the world near ectinction) because they are caught in nets and are over fished, rhino are nearly extinct and on and on. Chinese zoos are absolutely deplorable. Do these people not care about the suffering of other living beings?
If they continue their practise of eating wildlife then this will not be the last epidemic, and they only have themselves to blame.
I never buy any food from China.
i am glad to hear some more educated and younger people are speaking up. Time to also tackle the zoos and aquariums.
34
We are an invasive species, aren't we?
24
This practice of the Chinese eating unusual animals has to stop if they want to prevent future outbreak of disease in the future. The method of transmission with viruses like SARS is that the birds who are sick fly overhead and leave their droppings, then the animals eat those droppings, and then the people eat the animals. You can't continue to do that if you want to prevent these outbreaks. The foods should be kept to the more conventional ones that can be properly screened. Because no matter what else China does, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
3
if humans don't heed warnings from Greta, then mother nature will take matters into her own hands.
14
@MoneyRules - Greta means well but has a way to go in her own footprint. I read about her voyage across the sea. Two crew members flew across to New York, two flew back so that she and her dad could sail on the boat. It looks good but still was the same as if she flew across the globe first class. Meanwhile, my neighbors gather around their table every night to talk to relatives in Samoa using this incredible thing called Portal. You can talk to crowds anywhere without traveling. Amazing!
3
If we all become vegetarians it will cut down on a lot of this disease transmission, as well as reduce carbon emissions.
142
@Paul Smith - Sorry, the risk of E.coli is too great for me:) I would sooner eat bamboo rat in Wuhan than Romaine lettuce in America. I greatly reduced my carbon emission by getting rid of the car 10 years ago (haven't bought a gallon of gas since) and not boarding a plane since 1991. If I want to travel, I get on my trusty mountain bike and pedal. I will never sip lattes on the Champs Elysees in Paris but those espresso shots I sipped on that last bike trip across the Cascade Mountains and back were heavenly. Now, I'm pondering about kayaking up the Northwest Passage because I have never been to Alaska. It was that or ride from Seattle to LA down Highway 1 which is the most breathtaking drive in the U.S.
13
@Paul Smith
No, once again the plant-based crew has failed to think it all through. Do they imagine that the endless avocados (and all else being tossed into the smoothies) don't require being flown all 'round the world? That the Big Agra mono crops of corn, soy and wheat don't kill millions of little creatures in the combines? (there is an entire career involving cleaning dead, smashed rabbits, gophers, etc out of these massive machines)...not to mention the micro-organisms killed my non-organic farming or even aggressive fertilization.
10
@Paul Smith
How does this change happen? We're in the midst of a full scale national phobia towards carbs. We honor meat dishes at every holiday. We equate industrial meat consumption with personal strength. Think of the number of BBQ joints in your hometown or mine. Not many salad bars worth the trip.
Perhaps a meat tax as a bit of social engineering is in order.
8
The Chinese government needs to stamp out these outrageous live markets that traffic in wild animals and sell endangered species parts. The could almost certainly do it if they wanted to. The superstitions connected with eating animal parts in Asia are ingrained, but trade needs to be regulated, and an aggressive campaign against these practices waged. It's not only important for public health, it's important for the species being ravaged.
19
@Chris
Yes, as the article States, and good point, Chris.
There is nothing inherently cleaner or more sanitary about eating a chicken or a cow or a pig compared to eating a snake or a bat. I suspect the issue is that the killing, preparing, and storing of these animals is not done in a sanitary way (cleaned surfaces, cleaned tools, no combining parts of different animals on the same surface, the use of cold temperatures), that prioritizes freshness, discourages the growth of bacteria and viruses, and minimizes their transmission.
The importance of hand washing with the use of soap should be emphasized. Masks purchased in the standard drug store are just another surface to be colonized and another biohazard waste product that can serve to infect others if not properly disposed of. Not to mention adding to landfills like single use plastic.
12
This is inhumane and should be banned.
Not only is it driving some of these species to extinction, it is putting the lives of human beings at risk.
29
In France, a chicken is regularly sold at open air markets with its head and feet. This is the true at markets both organic and not. The butcher will the cut off those appendages, if the buyer requests. It doesn’t make the fowl any less healthy to be sold in its entirety. And in France ( probably other European countries) the poultry is closely surveyed by health officials, which may not be the case in China.
But the journalist is dramatizing the story by making the assumption that feet and heads ( however alien to American sensibilities) are by their nature, unhealthy. Or so it appears.
9
@Ex- ExPat - I will have to check again but I'm pretty certain the halal chickens sold in my Seattle grocery come with head and feet as well. And the Japanese market in Seattle lists on their website that they sell chicken feet.
My grandpa raised chickens when I was a kid and I saw a lot of feet and heads on those birds. But those folks also ate barbecued squirrels so they may not be a good example:)
1
Y’all forgot to mention the role of live bird markets in the spread of H7N9 and H5N1 high pathogenicity influenza viruses. The bottom line is, as long as there is consumer demand and weak regulation, these markets will continue to exist and provide a source for emerging viruses as well as not following listed species regulations. The Chinese government could end this very quickly.
29
I believe we as humans ask for these diseases.
29
@JoAnne
I believe those humans who traffic in cruelty also deserve them.
3
To “flaunt” wealth or because of “superstition” or, presumably, uneducated “beliefs”. In other words, only for the gullible or the obnoxious. Consuming “exotic” (not on McDonald’s menu) animals couldn’t possibly just be part of cultural culinary traditions that also happens to taste good. Regular folks like you and me, ie properly Westernized people would never!
I am not disputing the health risks or that China needs to take all necessary steps to prevent such events in the future. But I am calling out this article for its’ ethnocentricity.
9
@The F.A.D. EXACTLY! This article is breathing the-West-is-the-best all throughout without giving its readers any chance to try to see from the Chinese point of view. Very disappointing.
1
I will suspend buying on eBay for a while.
6
Or Amazon?
1
One of my takeaways in my first trip to China is that people have no choice about anything. Their lives are monitored, jobs dictated by the government -to the point that they can show up to work and be told that their factory has to be raised that day for a highrise. People themselves will bend over backwards to be kind to a foreigner but when it comes to their own individual lives there isn’t one. So I’d imagine you’d develop that same sort of attitude to any live animal: it’s just protein, its life doesn’t matter. If only Co would open the floodgate to...having a few options, a bit of joy in life, compassion for anything living. The people would follow.
17
@Margot lane Yours analysis is incredibly facile. Chinese people face certain restrictions - basically, they can't openly, vigorously oppose the government/Party and there are lots of bureaucratic rules. But Chinese people very much have "individual lives" and still many choices. And no, the government doesn't dictate jobs or hand them out. Also, some Chinese people are Buddhist and are very unwilling to kill sentient life for food. All the Chinese people I've known (which is a lot) have taken great joy in life and family and various interests. That this epidemic has ruined the Chinese New Year for so many is regrettable in part because the holiday is a source of great joy to Chinese people - as they get together with family, go shopping, go to movies, visit friends, etc. Chinese people, though restricted in some ways, are NOT without choices, joy or empathy. On the other side of the coin, Americans, I dare say, are not necessarily reverential about the animal life that went into their Big Mac.
17
@Susanna Quit with the blanket statements and the racism (note your comment that "something [is] wrong in this race"). Are you in the minds of 1.4 billion Chinese people? Do you know what they think? My take, based on my exposure to China and Chinese people, is that the average Chinese will patriotically support their country and government's position when it comes to key issues such as national sovereignty and issues related to national pride or capability (e.g., the Chinese space program, etc.). In contrast, regarding internal matters, such as this epidemic, Chinese people are very willing to be critical of government entities (of course, their criticisms might be quickly scrubbed from social media). If Chinese people support the government's policies to contain the epidemic, I believe it is less because they "do not doubt" their government, but rather because pulling together in this struggle - by supporting government policy - is the most pragmatic and effective response. I think most Chinese people want to see the best for Wuhan and the country as a whole and so are willing to unite behind government policies, even if they feel that segments of government are incompetent and not transparent.
1
Yours is a very good thesis, but not based on evidence. I don’t know when you visited China, but it’s now a place of runaway capitalism enjoying a very high degree of freedom except for democratically electing their government. And may I suggest Chinese are not necessarily less compassionate than Americans?
1
Smoking was considered Vogue in the US until it was not due to a campaign of laws, health and awareness. I'm sure something similar can be done in China.
11
China leads the world in per capita cigarette smoking.
2
Anyone who had lived in China long enough knows seafood is usually sold where the veggies are sold. Those ‘seafood’ markets never sell seafood.
8
On a trip to a large city in rural China some years ago, a visit to the local open-air market was like a visit to Hades with small, yellow dogs jammed into cages to be sold as food. A small zoo near the Mongolian border put a tiger and a wildebeest in a pen about 1/4 acre in size, and the tiger's pursuit of, toying with and eventual killing of its prey was part of the afternoon's entertainment. This same zoo had trained "sun bears" to ride unicycles on tight wires 100 feet in the air. Cultural differences aside, American mores had little place in that society.
43
@Marie - "American mores had little place in that society"
Reminds me of being a kid and taken to the Ringling Brothers Circus every year to watch the chained elephants and dancing bears with the tigers jumping through hoops on fire.
4
@Marie
I don’t think it’s the fault of the people. I think it’s the tortuous, hellbent government forcing humanity into not caring. Cruelty as a passive aggressive form of...desperation. MY life doesn’t matter, so the only way I can take it out on anything is on a lowly animal.
1
@Marie Yet this article is written with the perspective of an American. You cannot judge China (and the whole world) with your standards, America.
2
The best defense against this new virus, as well as others, is to wash your hands frequently, the second being to avoid constantly touching around your mouth and nose.
It is not easy to wash before eating, especially in fast food joints. Every restaurant should offer a means for getting your hands clean. One example is to place the wash basis outside the restroom so that it is easily accessible.
There was a report tonight of an airline taking a sick passenger off a commercial flight tonight in Baltimore. This should be a common practice. The airline price gouging by making tickets non-refundable encourages people to fly when they are sick and, therefore, to spread illness to other passengers. Gee, thanks, American Airlines.
There was a case years ago where a plane sat for hours at an airport in Alaska. One person had the flu and before it was over, about 90% of the other passengers came down with the flu, too.
I travel with a face mask for some protection but have very rarely used it. I will use it now with less hesitation. Another step is to bring a sanitizing wipe to use on the armrests and fold down table. In the past, people would have laughed at these precautions but they are not likely to be laughing now.
41
@Doug Terry - I have never been to a fast food joint in the U.S. that did NOT have a bathroom where I could wash my hands first. Not one.
3
@Doug Terry
I think we're all going need a bit more ingenuity than hand washing once this monster really gets rolling. It would appear to be a global crisis.
1
@tom harrison
And I've never been to a fast food joint at all.
Interesting image of a market in Shenzhen, China in 2016. Looks much cleaner and appetizing than the market in Shenzhen I saw in 1996. That I saw 20 years before this image was taken during my visit to the most populated country in the world with a rich ancient history the was nauseating because right after the entrance I saw dead snakes lined up and in the very first aisle behind that were all kinds of live and dead animals and backyard chickens and slaughter yourself animals like sivet cats. I remember refusing an invitation from my friend from HK inviting me for a dinner which his mom was preparing that included pigeon meat. It is no telling what the Chinese will have an appetite for. One thing that everyone who has got on the band wagon of the Chinese exotic markets needs to know is that viruses don't emerge overnight they jump from an animal species to humans over several years.
China has come a long way in the 25 years since my first visit to Shezhen. It is today the 2nd largest economy and food habits of the Chinese people has been changing. One of the largest section in the grocery store in Beijing was a large variety of Tofu or soy bean curd. It was no surprise that Soya beans are a major export of the US farm products. Another major export from the US is pigs especially since a large number of pigs died from a swine virus epidemic just recently. China is facing the worst viral infections in history after several years of viral evolution and jumping to humans.
20
@Girish Kotwal
What is exotic to you can be regular food to another culture. Many parts of the world eat insects. Pigeons are not exotic food in Hong Kong. They are expensive, but not exotic, and totally legal. You can get them at the San Francisco Chinatown too.
4
@Girish Kotwal Dear Westerner, just because you think a certain food is exotic, doesn't mean it is. Other parts of the world will consider many American foods exotic. Americans always think as if their culture is the standard of the world. It is not, though your capitalism is helping it to become so.
1
@Earthling They are exotic that is why they are expensive. Like regulated chicken poultry farms there are no pigeon farms. I think the USDA should stop acquiring untested exotic animals anywhere in the USA. If not the next deadly virus that will emerge could emerge in San Francisco. Why does human race have to allow pollution contributing to climate change and emergence of new viruses?
2
I just saw the first episode of the Netflix series Pandemic and one of the health professionals who appears in it was talking about the likelihood of the next pandemic to originate in a livestock market somewhere in China.
I was getting chills as I was watching it in awe and relating it to the current events in China.
46
A somber way to begin The Lunar New Year in China in 2020, where this virus appears to have surfaced in the southern region of the country from poor living conditions, contaminated Water, Environmental hazards and lack of Sanitation in populous omnivorous and wildlife markets.
The Western world might help contain this virulent epidemic outbreak, where coronavirus brings to mind the devastation of 'The Asian Flu', over a century ago.
International scientists and health experts might make a concerted effort to seek out similar symptoms to the above, and ways of helping those at high risk exposed to this dangerous and contagious outbreak.
The government appears responsible in detecting the source of this disease and raising public-awareness; the vendors of this wildlife know that this is no longer a legal venture, and it is not too late for officials to place the safety and lives of humans, first and foremost out of the eye of this 'hashtag' market.
Keeping up the health campaign announcements on the social media platform and placing a ban on game may be life-saving, while an emergency search team of experts takes place for a cure-all.
3
If China truly wants to be a renowned world power, they must stop these markets and ban the practice and sale of these animals for consumption.
If they continue to allow this, the rest of the world will eventually ban contact with China and anyone who travels there.
This is China's chance to do something right, for once...
70
It is my understanding that the flu, which kills thousands here and around the world, comes every year from Southeast Asia. It incubates among farmers in very rural areas who, in many cases, live in the same building as pigs, chickens and other animals. Each year it mutates into different molecular forms and the vaccines offered here, which are concocted before it is known which form flu will take, represent the best estimation, the best scientific guess, about where the mutations will go.
While the current outbreak is scary and sensational, standard flu kills many more people on an annual basis (provided the current outbreak is somewhat contained). Why has little or nothing been done to try to stop the passing along of new flu strains each year? Is it an impossible task or simply one that no one has considered trying?
We spent 3 to 4 trillion dollars fighting two wars in the middle-east with a great cost of life but it seems the best we can do about the flu is a shot, one which might or might not be effective. Millions of lives are potentially at risk if the flu takes an unexpected turn one year. Our efforts are not good enough.
38
Whenever government or anybody else spends money on something, whether good or bad, some sage has advice on how that money should have been "better spent." The military has nothing to do with these viral diseases, and its budget cannot be diverted for a "better" use.
2
@Le New Yorkais
I think you missed the point of my post. I was not suggesting military money be spent to fight the flu. What I was saying is that if we can spend that much money on wars, why can't we afford a small fraction for a problem that takes hundreds of lives and might threaten millions?
26
@Doug Terry
I believe I understood u quite well, Doug. U were day-dreaming how u would re-make the US budget if it were your world. Ok, it is fun fantasy, but irrelevant to how the world actually works. (I, too, believe the military budget should be drastically reduced over 50% immediately.)
1
The cause of this crisis is so transparently evident that not even an authoritarian government like China's will attempt to blame it on evil foreigners, but instead be forced to drag its society into the 20th century regarding best practices in public health.
47
“Are you sure it is eating wild animals that has caused the epidemic?” Yes, Zheng Ming, we're sure!
If the sellers think it's okay to cause a worldwide pandemic because they "observe the law," then the law needs to be changed.
44
@RDM
Actually it is against the law to sell these wild animals in wet markets. No one pays any attention and sales are brisk.
3
China is actively building a totalitarian state, is persecuting its Uighur minority, has no respect for the environment, intimidates its neighbours and refuses to recognize their borders, steals the intellectual property of its competitors, and, when Canada detained the Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou subsequent to an extradition request by the United States, promptly arrested two innocent Canadians and threw them in a dungeon, where they remain.
China is a poor global citizen in a myriad of ways. Spreading deadly diseases is just one of them, though perhaps the most revolting.
180
@Thomas Morgan Philip And other countries refuse to speak up because they are afraid of the repercussions. It's appalling.
15
Yes and American hypocrisy is at its highest level once again. Where are the calls for human rights violations when our young black citizens are being incarcerated or killed by our very own system.
3
Humans should turn vegetarian or vegan. We also should abandon ancient superstitions about food and religion.
95
@Kevin Cahill What about infected romaine lettuce?
3
@Kevin Cahill - In the United States, my current greatest threat in the food chain comes from Romaine lettuce. I quit buying lettuce of any kind long ago and now only eat what I grow in the front closet. There are many, many ways to get sick and die. Like, be born.
4
I would liken this menace to what Americans expose themselves when they eat wild deer meat and wild boar meat. The sale of these meats is banned in the USA, but people are still allowed to hunt these animals and eat their meat. Several states encourage this practice or at least turn a blind eye to it. Several diseases have crossed over from these species into humans including variants of BSE/TSE. There should be urgent recognition of the risk these people are taking by eating these animals and putting risk on the rest of society. There should be controlled culls of feral species like Deer and Pigs and the carcasses should be destroyed.
18
@Rahul Deer are not feral, they are native wildlife.
27
@Rahul wrote: "The sale of these meats is banned in the USA, but people are still allowed to hunt these animals and eat their meat. Several states encourage this practice or at least turn a blind eye to it."
Have you even been to the United States? States turn a blind eye to hunting and eating wild game? The sale of these meats is banned in the USA? Since when?
It's so funny, because you say you are writing from Philadelphia, but I get the sense you are simply in another country posting comments on Beijing's behalf in a vain attempt to minimize the damage to China's reputation because of their appalling culinary practices and their utter disregard for the sustainability of their bizarre wildlife-eating fetish.
3
To play devil’s advocate, the US meat industry is arguably just as cruel and likely ends more animal lives in a week than these markets do in a year. The total annihilation of chicks for nuggets scraps of meat, the cramming of animals into enclosures, and the scientifically perfected method of hormone injections and feed controls are common knowledge, but they are safely hidden away from the eyes of the consumer so all we see are nicely packed pieces of pink/red meat.
I would like to believe the average Chinese person does not consume random exotic animals regularly, but the situation is similar to how most American will try out deer, gator, shark, or any other non-industrial meat at some point. Again, these unusual foods are usually processed neatly away from view for Americans. The Chinese culture has a preference for knowing where there food came from and that includes the unsavory points before cooking it.
That being said, you reap what you sow. These places are not regulated like industry food and exotic animals are going to have an extra level of risk. I don’t see this problem being addressed in the near future.
58
@Robert If the"exotic animals" were cooked before consumption there might be less of a problem. I recall many years ago in Taiwan going through a snake market that was essentially the entrance to the red light district. Men drank fresh snake blood because folklore had it that it made them sexually stronger for their upcoming task.
13
@Robert If the"exotic animals" were cooked before consumption there might be less of a problem. I recall many years ago in Taiwan going through a snake market that was essentially the entrance to the red light district. Men drank fresh snake blood because folklore had it that it made them sexually stronger for their upcoming task.
4
@Robert - The last time I went to one of the top restaurants in town, there on the menu was a big warning: eat the oysters at your own risk. Pike Place Market sells them all day long along with most every grocery in the city.
3
These new viruses are our planets way of fighting back against the human onslaught. If the viruses don't win this battle, the earth dies off from human over population.
61
@Fred Rodgers
Absolutely and entirely agree!!!
3
China is the black hole of endangered species. In about a 15 year span, the African pangolin has gone from plentiful to the brink of extinction. All because of China’s appetite for all things rare. The pangolin will go extinct faster than any animal in history, and for no other reason than it’s a status symbol.
184
@Kb I am so glad the Chinese don't know how rare the Lion fish are and how they bring good luck from their consumption.
2
Eventually the practice of eating wild animals will end because most of them will be extinct soon. Having said that, we in the US need to do more. Why are ducks and boas allowed as pets? What explains rampant pythons gone wild in Florida? If the Chinese are damaging their environment what about Australia where the fires are likely due to rampant urbanization?
8
@SR The fires in Australia are not due to urbanization. They are mainly due to a prolonged drought combining with above average seasonal temperatures to create ideal conditions for wildfires to burn at great intensity.
Australia's highly urbanised population is a net benefit as it reduces the human footprint on the natural environment. There are many issues you could point to where Australia needs to do more in protecting the environment. Urbanisation is not one of them.
16
@SR The fires in Australia are not due to rampant urbanization. They are mostly caused by lightning during seasonal thunderstorms, just like in America. Rampant urbanization makes it difficult to fight the fires, just as it does in the US. And just like in the US, fires are worse because warming has caused millions of acres of forest to become tinder dry, and a long history of fire suppression has left those millions of acres primed to burn, as they used to before we were so numerous.
5
@SR - I have seen a couple of yards here in the middle of Seattle that have ducks for the eggs. One yard has quite the setup. They have a small pond with the ducks. The pond is full of plants and a water pump runs the water to the top of the fence where it all trickles back to the pond though a series of planter boxes on the fence that grow all of their food.
1
Ebola is another example of a human disease that recently jumped from animals. It was bushmeat, the flesh from infected primates, that was the likely vector for human infection. Eating apes or monkeys is plain cannibalism and we now see the consequences. At the same time we are pumping antibiotics into industrially produced pigs, cattle and chicken, resulting in widespread resistance making these drugs ineffective. That China still allows hunting of civets for consumption, the same animals that were the resource of the SARS virus, is mindboggling. It looks like humans can't learn and old habits are hard to extinguish
69
As someone who spent 2 to 4 weeks a year in China from 1985 to 2013 this is very much a cultural issue. The restaurants of quality , outside of high rises, all offer pick yr own live game.
Snakes, fish,turtles ,crabs, even dogs, cats and rats in some cases in tanks and cages.
Proof of “safety and purity” you pick out yr live meal.
Dancing shrimp, live shrimp dumped a hot plate at your table. They jump around. Does prove you aren’t gambling on the mediocre refrigeration and sanitation.
Those over 40 are still believers. Hopefully the kids will phase it out.
Nothing like fried “ little deer” ie rat. A high end specialty in Guangzhou.
42
@HJR It's proof of freshness in your example with the shrimp. And it's not clear cut that, at least in the case of shrimp, that the industrialized process where suffering is hidden from us are better.
Don't get me wrong - we shouldn't be killing endangered species. They're endangered.
But it's not clear that buying live fish or poultry or what not is any worse than cramming them into tight spaces, and keeping them alive at the expense of antibiotic resistance - is any more morally superior.
9
@HJR
Andy
You are conflating two separate issues, humanity and health.
Corona virus is apparently a health issue. Putting literally dozens of live species in cages in contact with shoppers and consumers.
Humanity, your basically right, is the live chicken or snake in a cage a more in humane or less in humane life than factory death. Quite probably not.
That however is a different debate.
5
Not necessarily true with the flu.
1
Dr. Robert Koch presented the "germ theory of disease" in the 1880s.
This latest virus, likely related to some interplay of the infectious material transmitted between animals and humans, serves as a reminder of how epidemics and pandemics start.
A century ago, the 1918 H1N1 Influenza virus was responsible for millions of deaths worldwide. H1N1 is still the most common variant of significant influenza illness.
The coronavirus is simply the most recent emergence of a virus that has shown the capacity to jump from one set of animal species to another. In this case, from chickens, cows and pigs to humans.
Modern scientific practices have been developed to greatly reduce the incidence of events like these, but it is a reminder to us all that lapses in proper handling of food products can lead to serious public health consequences.
5
Sanitation doesn't seem to be important either.
15
I am hoping for some good news to come out of this about poaching of highly endangered animal species, e.g., tigers.
25
The tradition or custom of Chinese using contaminated chopsticks at family dinners transmits viruses and bacteria. It is not only airborne coughs and sneezes and contaminated hands that are modes of transmission. I often see family members and friends eating with chopsticks pick up food from serving or communal plates with their personal chopsticks and offer food across the table to other diners using those same personal chopsticks that were just in their mouths. Clemson University (2009) studied bacterial transmission of this practice (custom) and found significant bacterial cross-contamination (placing fellow diners at risk of health issues). I was just at a pre-Lunar New Year dinner with friends, one of whom was clearly sick with a cold or flu, and I refused offered food by others’ chopsticks. Yet people were picking up pieces of food in communal serving dishes with their chopsticks, eating it, then picking up another piece of food and putting it on someone’s plate. The next day I got a bad bug. Hundreds of millions of Chinese will be unknowingly following this unhealthy practice during this holiday at multiple dinners.
Xi and the CCP can quarantine cities but he can’t quickly change this unhealthy custom among Chinese everywhere.
38
A few things:
Restaurants in China by and large do offer communal chopsticks.
Being mindful of germs and potential dangers of sharing as described, there’s also no reason why one would not request communal chopsticks from the start.
One also can make the conscious choice, as many Chinese around the world do as a matter of etiquette, flip one’s chopsticks to the other end when either serving yourself or someone else.
12
@Charlie Chan
You raise a good point I had always observed but never thought much about.
3
@Charlie Chan
Excuse me, the list of unhealthy restaurants in this country can be mind numbing. We have drs, nurses who don't know how to wash their hands before they see a new patient. We have a EPA that is going to be putting raw sewage in our drinking water, We have contaminated water in Flint, Newark and other cities.
We have dollar stores selling goods with outdated expiration dates to seniors. We have real issues of quality controls and when there are no controls, people die.
Capitalism is promoting diseased animals because we are not going to be supervising slaughter houses anymore to the extent that we had in the past.
So before we feel smug look at what the cult leader is doing to our internal control systems that kept our food safe for decades.
Its bad enough we have people running around who don't feel that children should be vaccinated, not caring that a diseased child would infect entire schools. Brooklyn, Rockland County last spring. We need to get our own house in order before we start being smug.
11
Love the picture of a table covered with unrefrigerated raw meat. And pangolins are critically endangered.
29
The circumstance of trafficking in and eating all manner of wild animals—including many endangered species—is abhorrent. It is more than high time for China to regulate their markets, for a whole host of ethical reasons, including, now, another coronavirus. This pandemic should not have happened.
55
@CA Reader
Any more so than eating cows, pigs, and chickens raised in abhorrent conditions and treated with all kinds of chemicals?
Europeans introduced germs--influenza, smallpox, tuberculosis--that decimated indigenous populations the world over.
SARS and the coronavirus are relatively recent developments.
Ever wonder why?
5
You are certainly right in terms of changing the attitude regarding wild animals - they are not there for you to eat, but I’m very doubtful that it can prevent the potential epidemic entirely as there are many more causes to the phenomenon, in addition to the usual media and public hysteria.
1
@Butch Your false equivalence is also abhorrent.
4
The finger wagging against Chinese culinary traditions is appalling.
We Americans eat ground cow meat, grown in slaughterhouses doused in antibiotics and manufactured into tubes in a factory, served with sugary chemicals sweetened by corn syrup and served in toxic plastic dishes and that’s somehow enlightened and modern?
76
Yes, in that unlike China we have strict food laws for sanitation and health. We in the USA actually hear more about dangerous germs in lettuce and fruit than we do from animals.
40
How can you not see the difference between respecting a culinary tradition and dealing live wildlife in a crowded food market in a city of millions?
43
This isn’t a debate about the morality of animal agriculture- There are no health standards for raising and eating baby badgers etc. from open markets and all of the sloppy practices is leading to serial virus creation - get it?
38
Any sovereign country has a right to its own traditions and customs, but when these start harming people outside its own borders, at what point does the international community have a responsibility to step in and actively combat the problem?
86
@Decatur Exactly! Your comment echoed mine below. It's insanity that yet another pandemic is apparently stemming from China's consumption of wild animals, and the repercussions are worldwide. Surely we can get China's attention in economic ways until they fix this problem.
32
@Decatur
Coronavirus: How China's increasing global power could be influencing global virus response
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-chinas-increasing-global-power-could-influencing/
China has been influencing international orders through its power and money (UN, WHO, IMF, World Bank), and US has been retreating from that order. I'm not optimistic about an international solution.
5
I guess, but if I could boycott everything manufactured in China, I would.
3
We should be drastically reducing travel and trade with China until this issue comes under control. I don’t want another SARS threat in Canada.
66
An authoritarian country like China can ban the sale of wildlife outright if it wanted to. It doesn't want to. This is why despite pouring money all over the world China will never truly be respected. When you allow a practice to flourish that the vast majority of advanced cultures find abhorrent, you are going to rise only so far in the eyes of the world.
177
@Sparkly Violet What about hunting deer or fishing in US? I think we should all eat more veggie and less meat.
8
@Joe
Visit the US and you will find that hunting and fishing are highly regulated, not simply for health considerations but also for conservation of the species being hunted/fished. That is markedly different from eating smuggled pangolin meat and powdered rhino horn.
47
Chinese food markets are a hazard to the health of the world.These are not tiny markets in remote places.They are gigantic markets in cities where millions of people live.No delicacy that the Chinese fancy is worth the possible origination of a new and lethal pathogen.The markets must be regulated and closed if necessary.The Chinese passion for rare food that is sold alive needs to be halted.SARS terrified the world just a few years ago and now they have a new virus which is spreading.The Chinese certainly do not want to be known as an unhealthy country to visit or the country of origin of deadly diseases.
80
It’s not just the markets. It’s common practice in Asian farm families to live in the same dwelling with livestock. Thus the reason for the influenza strains the WHO has to prepare for each year born from this practice.
3
Warning to omnivores: what goes around will come around and bite you.
Rapidly turning into vegan (plant based meat) after years of steaks etc. Issues of cruelty and sustainability.
The 'We eat everything' days are over because that does not scale to 8 billion consumers.
67
Most pandemic illnesses come from eating animal flesh. What this tells me is that we can create a more just, sustainable, and ethical society if we remove dead animals from our diets.
61
@CP That's not true. Influenza, Dengue, Cholera, Malaria, etc., are all equal opportunity pandemics. They don't select for meat eaters. You vegans can have your own opinions and make your dietary choice. Just like we non vegans. If I were given the choice of being a vegan or eating insects, I'd choose the bugs.
9
@myfiero Sure they may be equal opportunity once they’ve been introduced into the human population, but it’s the close contact between animal species (normally those farmed for meat) and humans that lead to pandemics in the first place (influenza, SARS, etc). Outbreaks of food poisoning (E. coli, Salmonella) may sometimes be due to products of non-animal origin, but contamination of those products occurred because of transmission from an animal source.
1
@CP nor plague, smallpox, tuberculosis, leprosy, typhoid …
I wonder also if any dog owners are worried about the odd stuff our dogs eat as treats (chicken hearts, turkey trachea, bones of all sorts of animals!, beaks, really gross stuff sometimes!): make sure it comes from local farms and not from overseas.
45
@Rena
Remember about 10 years ago dogs here in the US were getting sick because the branded dog companies were outsourcing to China. Little did we know till our animals became sick. Purina making money for their shareholders were killing our pets
A new wave of dog food came into being, that were American all the way
30
@Rena
Trader Joe's doesn't sell Chinese imports because of concerns about quality and safety, that includes dog treats. And don't forget the contaminated baby formula.
4
@Rena I check all the time and adamantly refuse overseas treats from China, Vietnam. No quality control.
4
This virus is going to cost the Chinese economy billions of dollars. That alone is reason enough to regulate the markets where such pathogens originate.
37
I hope so. I hope it also causes lots of inconveniences for them too.
12
Eating animal products is evil because it causes heartbreaking suffering. Evil has consequences.
45
@Polaris so does eating Romaine lettuce.
When I first visited Asia as a child and learned from relatives there that wildlife, including baby wildlife, were kept in cages and then consumed as “delicacies,” I was distraught. It’s incredible that decades later and with greater access to information and more availability of alternative food sources, nothing has changed. Time for the world to drag these people into the 21st Century.
182
@Jane Or at least the 19th!
4
All of this would be OK, with a bit of hygiene, were there not so many people. Too too many people, too many mutating viruses, too close quarters, too little ecosystem to clean and balance it.
Sad to think, but possibly the only chance for humans not to be included in the numerous species that are soon to be extinct, is for some really nasty virus to take out out 9/10ths of us.
23
No, the horrifying practices in the markets will never be made okay by a “little hygiene.”
17
The mere fact that the pangolin, one of the world’s gentlest and most critically endangered creatures, is still being consumed in China is appalling. This alone, even outside of the sickening brutality and conditions of the meat and slaughter markets, makes me step outside of empathy for my fellow humans. Reap what you sow.
211
Your comment is spot on! Spend any time in Asia and you quickly understand that large numbers of mainland Chinese will stop at nothing in order to satisfy their desire for prestige and need for super-charged libidos: endangered Sun Bears sold for their gallbladders, hundreds of thousands of tons of scales from endangered Pangolins, destruction of thousands of miles of Orangutan habitat, resulting in motherless infants in sanctuaries run by nonprofits. Likewise, mainland China and Hong Kong drive poaching of African Elephants all for ivory and the killing of hapless Rhinoceros since their horns are considered both a status symbol and an aphrodisiac. It is all illegal and most of the trade is underground; while these shameful practices can be slowed it is next to impossible to stop because of the fortunes fueling it. SHAME
14
On a recent visit to China and a Chinese market, I recall wondering what the bacteria count was on the bottom of my shoes.
45
Omnivorous markets Chinese style pose a world extinction threat no less real than global warming. However, China can fix this in a day. It just chooses not to.
75
GO VEGAN! Stop the oppression, exploitation and abuse of other living beings. We can add rampant zoonotic diseases and epidemics to a whole other list of reasons why we need to stop eating animals. As if the meat and dairy industries aren't causing enough destruction with being the number one cause of climate change in the USA, you can now look forward to mass epidemics and death thanks to how despicably we treat other living beings.
47
Scary ironic to me that the possible source of the coronavirus that seems to have been set loose in Wuhan in China, comes from one or more of the Chineses 'Wild Meat' markets that have long been criticized by conservationists the world over for their role in the decimation of endangered species- Like the tiger, rinocerose, pangolin, sea turtle and asiatic black bears.
One would have thought that the Chinese Government would have learned by the the world's recent frightening health epidemics that were generated by cross species contagion of deadly viruses, like SARS-Pigs (China) and HIV-monkeys (Africa), that turning a blind eye to the open trafficking in wild meat- or to simply continence unproven and superstitious and harmful folk remedies- is simply playing Russian Roulette with fate or nature (to say nothing of ignoring the tragedy of extinction).
66
This growing epidemic is an excellent example of what continues to happen when human needs and cravings, whatever they are, come first. As a visiting scholar in China 30 years ago, I was served pangolin soup for lunch along with turtle and snake, only to find out later that pangolins are endangered. I was shown a live civit cat in the back of the restaurant and asked if I wanted to eat it. I politely said no thanks. A civit cat was later traced as a source of SARS. Almost nothing has changed. Humans have just about eliminated all wild mammals from the planet. Can't we stop doing this? It isn't so hard to be a vegetarian; I've been one since that trip to China.
140
@Edward Clark
It would be nice if vegetarianism were the solution. It isn't. Just one aspect of our lives affecting the environment. Best way to "save the planet" is to stop reproducing. Looks like internet porn may be reducing birthrates at astronomical levels. (So there's an unintended positive consequence of the internet.)
But as Americans, we devour 25% of the world's resources, so we really don't have much of a leg to stand on. As long as we drive larger and larger cars, aspire to larger and larger houses and TVs and cabins i the woods, etc., etc., we're THE problem in the world. And on top of that, our insane "leaders" can't even admit climate change is a major problem and won't go near addressing the issues.
So instead of doing a "green kitchen remodel (there is no such thing)," it's time to rethink the entire thing.
Ironic that we rely on China for virtually all of our consumer goods. Yet their environmental record is causing worldwide crisis, from CO2 production and fossil fuel consumption, to ocean plastic pollution and other contaminant pollution. And then there's the biological hazard angle. All within a world economy in which a plane load of passengers can disperse a contagion worldwide with ease.
But who are we to point fingers at China? We won't allow them to enjoy the fossil fuel revolution we did 100 years ago? WE can own more cars than are people in the country, but China can't? India either?
Without sacrifice, we're doomed.
38
@Bike Fanatic Thanks for your thoughtful feedback. I was responding to the current crisis caused by zoonotic transmission of an infectious agent associated with eating wild animals.
We can point fingers at China when they are doing things that can affect world health, nothing wrong with that. They could separate the processing of animals from markets.
They and we can point fingers at ourselves, I agree US is a major polluter. Eating less meat does reduce CO2. All I feel I can do in the US is support and vote for green candidates, drive an electric car charged by solar panels on my house, reduce plastic and other waste in my life, be mindful. Is it okay for China and India to make the same mistakes the USA has? I don't think so, and I don't think many of their leaders do either. China is a leader for making solar panels for instance. Let's all work together to support solutions to save our planet!
18
@Bike Fanatic
Your point is excellent, population is a problem. Eating meat is also a problem affecting many things including animal living conditions.
Is it more effective to step on someone else's idea in order to make your point?
Best wishes. Bikes rule!
2
Animals rarely consumed by humans may carry pathogens to which the human body has no immunity. Thus, sickness occurs after infection and death can be an outcome. It is not a matter of lack of refrigeration or of animals being confined in cages. That the Chinese government has not effectively banned the commerce of certain animal species likely to carry so-called novel viruses, for which humans have no immunity, is surprising and inexcusable, following the SARS crisis.
We have treaties to prevent the spread of certain weapons and discourage warfare between nations. We need international pressure, with treaties, to ban commerce in animals whose consumption could lead to a world-wide pandemic.
126
@blgreenie
You make some very lucid points, however, how are we to determine exactly which animal species carry these potentially life-threatening pathogens?
Are these pathogens specific to only certain species?, I doubt that very much.
I would imagine that such pathogens would easily find a suitable host in most animals before they mutate and evolve into something that can make the leap from animal to human host.
I do argue your point about refrigeration, the benefits of which are self-evident.
More importantly, all meats need to be routinely tested by a government agency such as an equivalent of our USDA.
The streets of those markets must be horrific biological cesspools of disease and I wonder how clean those vendor stalls are.
Do the purveyors use industrial-strength disinfectant to clean the stalls and streets on a regular basis?
Consider the amount of potentially disease causing pathogens that are spread by foot traffic alone on the sidewalks and mass transit into every home.
9
More than one of my Chinese friends has commented that “this would not have happened in Shanghai or Beijing.” By “this” they meant the apparent unpreparedness of the local governmental and medical establishments to deal with the problem efficiently and forthrightly, but they might as well have been referring to the existence of “wet markets” that traffic in exotic wildlife. Wet markets are common in Shanghai; the one I frequent for fruit, vegetables, and eggs is clean, orderly, and, as far as livestock is concerned, offers nothing more unusual than the panoply of live fish, eels, and bullfrogs that can also be found in most Chinese supermarkets. It seems that among the great strides China has made in modernizing its infrastructure to an almost futuristic degree, eradicating rural superstitions has not received the same attention. I think that’s about to change.
145
It's not just a rural problem. Wuhan is a city of 11,000,000 people. It's considerably larger than any city in North America.
15
@Thomas Caron It's much easier to modernize technologically that it is to change deep rooted cultural practices. In fact, the technological change will be for nothing in terms of a safer and healthier society if the culture fails to change. Else, dystopia courtesy of the CCP is all that the Chinese may end up with.
1
China needs to mandate that all food be sold in modern supermarkets with meat lockers and refrigeration units, and prohibit further sales of live animals in open-air markets situated in large cities.
This underscores the reason why the U.S. has very strict laws about keeping livestock in urban areas, it’s unsanitary to say the least and poses a major health risk to residents of crowded cities.
There was a recent Times article about how China is shaming citizens who wear pajamas and other attire deemed unsuitable/inappropriate when appearing in public, indicating that China is concerned about it’s global image, even at the most superficial level.
Following this most recent and past outbreaks of deadly viral infections that are known to originate from these open-air markets, China needs to re-evaluate its global image on a more substantive level and understand that as a major global power, it has important responsibilities to the world community as well as to it’s own citizens.
What people choose to eat is their own concern, but China can no longer turn a blind eye to this outdated practice of condoning the sale of livestock and un-refrigerated foods in essentially, unregulated open-air markets.
213
Sir you say what people choose to eat is their own concern- I dare say 50, 60 years back the exact sentiment was voiced when parents hit their children, how people choose to raise kids is their own concern.
Don’t people recognize that the consumption of meat entails severe cruelty on a daily basis to literally millions of animals!
58
@Larry Chan
Well walk with our wallets, when in China dont go to these markets. Eat in clean restaurants don't eat endangered species .
Only the lost of money will make these markets change. they wont change on their own but when tourist groups arent booking trips to the market it is at least a beginning that the government will take not how much money they are losing
9
It stands to reason why the most populous countries and continents consume endangered animals, marine life and bushmeat. The Earth and its resources are not getting appreciably larger; population grows and is growing geometrically, like a hockey stick; and there are 7.7 billion people on the planet today, which is more than have lived AND died cumulatively since the beginning of time. It is impossible for all those people to make more and more and faster and faster demands and changes to our ecosystems, without a negative affect.
Confer:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/population-growth-climate-change/
Also cf.: Population impact on climate
https://www-m.cnn.com/2011/10/29/world/7-billion/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fr.search.yahoo.com%2F_ylt%3DAwrJ6yr94XNdQQIAeJpx.9w4%3B_ylu%3DX3oDMTByZnU4cmNpBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwM5BHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--%2FRV%3D2%2FRE%3D1567904381%2FRO%3D10%2FRU%3Dhttps%253a%252f%252fwww.cnn.com%252f2011%252f10%252f29%252fworld%252f7-billion%252findex.html%2FRK%3D2%2FRS%3D_KhNc5kOgNJ1KagNiSxv6Z1Mi9Q-
And if you believe the Amazon biome should be leveled more, to make way for beef production for the world’s explosive population growth, see this:
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/614222/we-arent-terrified-enough-about-losing-the-amazon/
To protect and promote beef production, this U.S. Government Agency Kills Millions Of Animals A Year:
http://allthatsinteresting.com/wildlife-services
49
@Jay Albert
Nope. Its cultural. The eating of some of these animals have been in practice for thousands of years-long before the population boom. Many of these animals are consumed for debunked health benefits - a common one being virility improvement.
The Chinese are wiping out some of their own national treasures through consumption but the misguided appetite does not stop there- it spreads to Endangered animals in Africa and all over the world-many animals and parts sold through the black market.
63
There is an extremely simple solution to this: become vegetarian, or better, vegan. Problem solved ... and it will also end the unnecessary torture and misery suffered by millions of animals.
226
@MH
Ever hear of e. coli outbreaks?! They kill people.
Your statement is a good soundbite (notice the likes)- but has no merit in protecting against foodborne illness.
The last e. coli outbreak from Romaine Lettuce killed 5 in the U.S. and infected many more. Kale, cranberries and countless other vegetables and fruits have carried foodborne illnesses.
32
@MH
Veganism is reducing the demand for milk products and as a result dairy farmers in Wisconsin are committing suicide. Google "dairy farmer suicides" and you'll find a story on this.
It's not too far of a bridge to say that veganism is killing farmers in America.
16
Eating meat is just as much cultural. The Thanksgiving Turkey, Hot Dogs and Burgers for the 4th of July, a celebratory steak dinner.
I have no doubt that people 100 and 200 years from now will consume little to no meat at all. However, that will be from the result of changes in cultural norms, improved culinary arts dedicated to vegetarian and vegan and wide adoption of meat substitutes.
19
This is a deeply rooted cultural phenomenon beyond superstition and the idiotic needs to flaunt wealth. Hopefully scientists and epidemiologists can work with historians, philosophers, sociologists and anthropologists to understand the Chinese propensity for game meats (without a particular propensity for hunting as Europeans do). When I was in Shanghai, every other restaurant in a forest restaurants boasted servicing game meat or exotic seafood. This epidemic, horrible as it is, is an opportunity for cultural change. It can be perfect tied to the 2020 Winter Olympics to promote a more progressive lifestyle.
114
2022 not 2020. In 2020 the Chinese can learn from the Japanese, who are extremely careful with food and very sanitary.
4
Culinary adventurism, “You are what you eat”.
15
When is the time going to come when the health and safety of the rest of the world's population will surpass the right of the Chinese to eat wild animals?
237
@Kris It's not just wild animals. Our only real hope is to stop eating other animals. Period. There is absolutely no reason to consume the corpses of other animals in our time. And so many, many reasons not to.
15
“But for the sake of some little mouthful of flesh we deprive a soul of the sun and light, and of that proportion of life and time it had been born into the world to enjoy.” — Plutarch
Homo sapiens — the most horrid species on Planet Earth.
290
This is true for wild animals. However, for domesticated animals, the vast, vast majority of them would never have *any* life, if they weren't being raised to be sold.
16
That is why animal agriculture has to end. Would you like to have been bred solely to be eaten?
20
@PaulSFO
No life is better than a short life lived under horror house conditions.
8
I hope for a day when Republicans and evangelicals understand that it doesn't matter your socioeconomic class, party or religious affiliation if someone at Walmart next to you is carrying a virulent disease, fungus or bacteria and because of lack of resources they are unable to see a healthcare professional and get a proper diagnosis. Without a national Healthcare System we will all suffer as viruses mutate and new strains of bacteria become more prevalent. I'm just sayin.
129
We will learn that lesson the hard way.
6
@Susanna Seems to me it’s worth paying for their health care if it keeps the rest of us from getting some horrible disease. That’s what insurance is for.
6
@kat
I might agree with you if we didn’t have hundreds of thousands...nay, millions...of foreign nationals illegally jumping our borders year after year...exploiting our healthcare system, which our own citizens ultimately have to pay for.
24
My family has been eating venison as our regular red meat for years. We don't buy beef, we eat elk. Until very recently most people in the US lived on farms and were very familiar with eating everything we could. For those in Asia with much more recent memories of the farm life animals like turtle, snake, and other fare are not an oddity but rather a delicacy, and they cost more.
Besides the danger of exotic viruses there is the very real danger of species extinction. Here in the US we have regulated hunting which not only assures the survival of all hunted animals but actually funds their study by biologists. In Asia our NGOs work to study wildlife but they also work to end all hunting instead of working to implement the very successful conservation programs we have here in the USA. The Wildlife Conservation Society mentioned in your article set up a tiger conservation program in Laos by expelling many villages and encouraging the dictatorial government to outlaw subsistence hunting. The result after many years,,,, no more tigers in Nam Et Phou Louey Tiger Conservation Area.
Maybe it's time to turn all Asian hunters into conservationists as has been done in the USA. If there were a new virus infecting snakes or bats or fishers in the US there's a good chance biologists would already be aware of it. It's long past time to work with indigenous hunters in Asia.
30
@somsai
There is a new disease in the US: White-nose syndrome is an emergent disease of hibernating bats that has spread from the northeastern to the central United States at an alarming rate. The disease is deadly and is decimating the bat population. There is no known cure.
9
@BBBear
This has been spreading for years.
How is this related to the story?
In the wild, carnivorous animals eat other live animals because they’ve not evolved to grow their own food and cook it.
Humans have been producing food and cooking it for millennia. So why are some of us still eating like wild animals?
143
@Susanna
Further, humans aren't carnivores. We're primates. Those categories are mutually exclusive.
4
Two different types of classifications. We are indeed primates. Meanwhile, we aren’t carnivores, we’re omnivores.
17
@Polaris we certainly aren’t carnivores, we’re likely natural omnivores. While many primates seem to be exclusively vegetarian, many chimpanzees and baboons are fairly regular hunters. These markets are appalling and eating endangered animals like pangolin is especially revolting.
11
The increasing human population improves the chances for interactions between wildlife and people. This is happening all over the world, not just in China. To minimize human encroachment on wild areas, it would be necessary for governments to mandate the "building up" of housing as opposed to the incessant outward sprawl of urban centers. This trend is happening in the USA as we speak. Few people heard of Lyme disease 50 years ago.
34
This is not coming from accidental contact due to development pressures, it is coming from people eating things like bat soup.
39
True, but this outbreak is coming from a market place where people are willingly and unnecessarily selling live animals in likely unsanitary and extremely close quarters. Not to mention the fact that many of these animals should not be eaten by humans to begin with, delicacy or not. Personally, Chinese food markets nauseate me.
340