Doing evil in the name of "God" absolves the evildoers. We must abort superstition or resign ourselves to perpetual killing in the names of all those loving Gods.
1
As a born and bred New Yorker who lost two friends on 9/11, I want revenge.
1
I see a strong motive for the Saudis to commit 9/11. A massive terrorist event such as 9/11 would cut off Saudi society from the Western world. This would be very good for the Saudi royals who could then further depress or even eliminate modernization calls and preserve their kingdom. Can you imagine Saudi citizens seeking a representative democracy and questioning the distribution of the oil funds?
The question would be how and why did the Americans permit such a tragedy? There is reason to believe so. There is a non-profit called Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth that has been documenting for many years that WTC7 did not collapse because of a plane crash. This non-profit is founded by structural engineers, architects and forensic experts and has utmost credibility. I would wish the NYT to cover them.
2
You lost me with “Trump wanted to do the right thing.”
6
How many other people beside myself believe that when W43 was briefed on the 9/11 threat and responded, "Bring it on!" he was interested in one thing: to arrogate more power to the executive and perhaps suspend, temporarily or permanently, our constitutional rights and civil liberties in the name of maintaining order in a fascist-sounding Homeland...
5
I spent the majority of my 25-year career working for the government as an intelligence office in counterterrorism issues. The piece was a troubling walk down memory lane for me for several reasons, one of which was serving as a liaison officer for a national intelligence agency to the FBI's International Operations Section.
First, unlike the movie/TV version of the FBI, it was (and probably still is) a case study in ineffective bureaucracy. The HQ and Field Offices operate as autonomous fiefdoms that refuse to answer to anyone, without executive level interference, that only comes in too little and too late. One hand rarely knows what the other is doing, and is profoundly insulted if you ask. It was tragically funny to watch the new hardcopy intelligence reporting arrive, be routed to the desk of an individual whose last name was at the top of the alphabet, and stay there until read and passed to Mr./Ms. "B". If they were on leave or TDY....oh well...that's where it stayed.
Second, the 'experts' in FBI counterterrorism weren't. They were doing finance crimes, child pornography, cattle rustling one day and the next day they were counterterrorism experts. And they'd tell you that to your face.
Third, the FBI isn't interested in learning the details of how and why unless it's going to result in a criminal conviction.
Art Cummings was weak tea in 1999, seems he still is.
The article's authors should try to find more details about that visit to KL in 1999/2000.
11
Between the many other headlines of just today: impeachment, the Grammys and the tragic and shocking Kobe Bryant-related helicopter crash ... so much news to take in and keep up with.
So, I wonder how much of this important piece will -- or can --'break through' in real time.
But I thank the NYTimes and ProPublica for compiling the information. History needs recording, and re-recording, to drive messages home and make them accessible for the future.
This piece accomplishes that, and could be helpful in the case against SA which a group of 9/11 families continue to try in the US court system.
~ 9/11 family member
9
Far from conclusive; indeed far from persuasive, but thought-provoking. Won’t win it for the families in civil court, regrettably. The true truth (as opposed to the convenient truth - ie Bush and Obama’s, or the fake truth - ie Trump’s) won’t out for a hundred years. After the House of Saud is gone, America is much different (if it still is), and we are all in our graves (or urns). The historians may discover that a few dogged investigators were on to something rather than being over-eager squanderers of scarce anti-terrorism resources (as was said in FBI HQ).
As I was reading, I kept thinking about motive. If the Saudi government (or part of its deep state) was involved, what an ingenious plot: to motivate America to finally engage fully against the Royal House’s great enemy - the fanatical puritans within its own fold. Enlist America by attacking America. As ingenious as something the Pakistani intelligence agency might brew up. This could of course happen with or without the complicity of the Royals themselves; and certainly without the complicity of the US Administration. The downside is the risk of discovery - a huge downside, which would make it a foolhardy venture for the Saudi state. Yet, bin Laden’s own motivation is hard to fathom if he is taken to have been an intelligent strategist and not just a fanatic. Attacking the USS Cole is one thing, 9-11 another altogether unless the real goal was to spark a war of the religions, and banish Muslims from the West.
3
I recall reports that the ID's used by the hijackers were fake - that the real people named were still alive. It was very 'convenient' that passports were found at various locations - especially the one near the twin towers - undamaged and loose on the street instead of in a jacket or pocket on a body that was never found.
4
There is no ideal choice here. Trump faced difficult choices, and I can see that he wanted to do the right thing for justice, and for Americans, but had to compromise. It is true at this point, that Saudi Arabia is a crucial country for the US in the Middle East, particularly in the confrontation with Iran.
The pure justice virtuous position, particularly in situations that negatively affect American international interests, is a feature of anti-American progressive politics. They want to harm countries that they don't like that cooperate with the US. They particularly appear to hate Saudi Arabia, not a place that I favor, but possibly because they have oil and cooperate with Israel.
To take a maximalist position on difficult international issues to demonstrate that Trump is immoral or callous, in view of the fact that Obama likely also knew the name/s and did nothing, is not a position that indicates personal integrity on the part of the critics.
@Edward
"Trump faced difficult choices, and I can see that he wanted to do the right thing for justice, and for Americans, but had to compromise."
Are you serious? Trump does what is best for Trump.
11
The US depends on Saudi Arabia to preserve the monopoly of the petrodollar, one of the ways the dollar is sued to enforce the global economic empire of the United States. Saudi Arabia is committed to continuing with the petrodollar when there is a growing desire to break its monopoly on the buying and selling of oil. In return Saudi Arabia expects special consideration from DC.
Iraq abandoned the petrodollar. Result: severe sanctions followed by invasion. Libya abandoned the petrodollar. Result: severe sanctions followed by military attack. Iran and Venezuela have abandoned the petrodollar. Result: severe sanctions following by the desire, so far, of DC to invade both countries or destroy their economies.
If the petrodollar is abandoned in favor of a basket of currencies the US would be constrained to work cooperatively with the countries whose currencies are in the basket. And if the pertrodollar is abandoned there would be a growing movement to abandon the dollar as the currency of international debt settlement and the currency of bank reserves. These moves would seriously injure the power that the US yields over other nations. There is a "domino effect" theory guiding how the US deals with Saudi Arabia. And nothing will be done to change things.
11
It now makes sense that oil man Wrecks Tillerson was sent to mind the State Department while Pompeo spent that time on his post-graduate degree from the CIA before he took over at State.
The CIA doesn't serve the people who send their representatives to Congress, and now the State Department doesn't either.
7
I have accused The NY Times of some one sided reporting this year, but this was excellent reporting. I genuinely appreciate the attack on Trump when it is put in the context of historical weakness from Washington. Trump is continuing a pattern of "profits over people" in reference to Saudi Arabia.
RIP Ensign Joshua Watson, Airman Mohammed Sameh Haitham, and Airman Apprentice Cameron Scott Walters - United States Navy, Naval Air Station Pensacola, December 2019. #FlyNavy
9
"Agents of New Scotland Yard"? That is like saying "agents of One Police Plaza." New Scotland Yard is the building that houses the headquarters of the Metropolitan Police. Perhaps the authors mean that Bayoumi had become an agent of London's Met.
You all should be aware that Saudi Arabia is home to the Wahhabi religion. A religion that is the basis for HATE especially the West. It is these schools around the world that has promoted this culture and from where ISIS grew.
Yes, SA gets away with too much but they have the oil and greed Trumps all.
7
I wish that someday government officials would look into what 911 Truth has discovered: the twin towers were brought down by explosives. Hundreds of architects have testified that the towers could never have come down by the heat of jet fuel from the planes that hit the towers. There is live, in the moment footage of 1st responders saying they felt and heard massive explosives coming from the basement of the towers. There is slow motion footage at 911truth.org that shows how each floor was being blown out by explosives like a controlled demolition which is how the towers fell. When you finally get that this was an inside job, all of this other Saudi connection stuff is just a distraction.
3
A thought that comes to mind (and it's only that) is, are there any people in the FBI who would be inclined to think that finding new, important information about the 9/11 attacks so long after they occurred would make the FBI look bad for not finding the information before? Perhaps not, but that sort of thinking isn't alien to human nature.
4
Why didn’t the “Axis of Evil” include Saudi Arabia - home to 15 of the 19 hijackers and exporters of Wahhabism, the most extreme form of Islam. Why was Osama Bin Laden’s family promptly flown out of the US without being questioned. Why was President Trump’s first post inauguration overseas trip to Saudi Arabia and not a historical ally, e.g. Canada or the UK or France (let’s include Australia….maybe too long a flight, but gain some frequent flyer points :)).
As I was reading this article, the US mini-series ‘The Looming Tower’ based on Lawrence Wrights’ 2006 book, came to mind. Riveting viewing.
Answers to my questions, can be found in the movie ‘Syriana’ with George Clooney. The democratisation of the Middle East is underwritten by self-interest and big business (e.g. Halliburton and arms and weapon sales) and looking the other way when it comes to violation of human rights and freedoms (including the press) and an absent secular legal system.
When visiting NY in 2015 I visited the 9/11 Memorial and Museum and remember viewing some of the 2977 photos and home videos of the murdered victims. It was a powerful and moving experience. I cannot begin to imagine how their families and friends feel about being denied justice and having to resort to legal means to fight their own government in exposing and prosecuting the guilty. It seems that not upsetting the Saudi’s, Trumps (forgive the pun) all other considerations.
14
The long history of the pursuit of "US Interests" in the Middle East has led to nothing but trouble, but it keeps the production facilities humming down at the Military-Industrial Complex.
The resulting 9/11 Wake Up Call to the US was clear: Get out.
Imagine foreign countries indulging their "interests" to the same degree on US soil as the US has intervened in the Middle East.
Oh wait, Trump already opened that door to both the Saudis and the Russians. He's probably working on a deal with North Korea while trying to stay in office.
Pompeo hijacked the State Department, and Barr is hiding more than just the 9/11 evidence. These are frightening times.
I hope the 4 Senators who could change the course of history are developing a conscience this week.
9
17 Saudis and no one knew?
7
Shut down the CIA and half our problems would be solved. It was started by Truman to provide intelligence to the executive office. By the 60s Truman said it was a rogue Pentagon, running around the word starting wars. It serves the interests of the financial, banking, defense industries. Hordes of geeky researchers, sitting in cubicles filled with self importance, churning out dubious research with all the precociousness of a sophomore essay; then Spooks, recruited from the ranks of the sociopathological, criminal s who could execute a man, woman or child and not flinch, and then the leadership, drawn from the pedigreed corporate class, like Poppy Bush, cream puffs who favor the term 'golly gee' to show us the compassionate face of our fascist takeover. We have sold our souls...for what?
6
Trump’s no fool, eh? He’s not going to let a little chaos, terrorism, murder and mayhem directed against Americans and others come between him and money? Sounds a lot like the policy in “The Godfather.” “It’s not personal. It’s business.”
9
The sooner renewable energy takes over and we can stop pretending to be allies with these murderous authoritarians the better
5
America has been betrayed by it's own for oil and Saudi money.
Sad for us and I'm sorry America has betrayed those that died.
6
The US has a conflict of interest in investigating the Saudis. The intolerant hateful jihadist religion of Saudi Arabia has been the greatest boon to US and NATO strategic interests. They have killed in vast numbers and do horrific things to those the US considers as enemies. They also inspire many Muslims all over the world to even greater heights of piety and bloodshed. It is therefore best to not worry about the truth.
3
Good luck trying to defend the Saudi's role in 911, it would be at the level of defending Trump in the impeachment, the Jamal Khashoggi murder or MbS's phone didn't hack Bezos's
4
With friends like Saudi Arabia who needs enemies?
8
With Saudi Arabia and China as friends, who needs enemies?
4
No one brings the fact that there is a lawsuit that urges Iran to pay bills for the relatives of victims. This is clear that Iran is behind the attacks!
Imagine the fortunes of the military-industrial-surveillance-mercenery complex, and its investors, without the Al Sauds as customers - they'd be unable to deal with the losses, and the Al Sauds would be unable to keep paying off the terrorists and princelings with the kickbacks to keep peace in the Kingdom.
2
It was always the Saudis that flew the planes on 9/11, never the Iraqis or Saddam Hussein. But the republicans had their excuse and George W. Bush and his dastardly team, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et. al., blundered into Iraq. Afghanistan quickly followed. Twenty years later we are all still paying the price for thoughtless republican warmongering.
Thoughtlessness continues to be the way for today’s republican. Shameful.
7
America and it's citizens, us...each and every one of us....is responsible for the endless wars in the Middle East, for the destabilizing of other nations' economies, for the refugees this creates. We as a nation are a bully on the world stage, we steal other nation's resources for our own use, we continue to give our government trillions of our tax dollars to go and fight wars on other people's soil so that corporations can rack up huge profits and we can each put gasoline into our cars. It's insanity.
5
There are Saudi associations with the hijackers in Sarasota Florida that similarly have not been resolved. The story has dragged on for years.
Several hijackers learned to “fly” at a nearby Venice Florida flight school.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.heraldtribune.com/news/20190827/judge-rules-fbi-must-release-details-of-911-sarasota-investigation?template=ampart
4
So when the truth comes out that it was an inside job, they’ll spin it to make us believe the Saudis did it.
I don’t buy it for one second. They lied then and they’re lying now.
1
This reporting elucidates the fact that the Saudi relationship with the United States (that dates to post-WWII and the creation of Aramco) is complicated and corrupt. The recent murder of Washington Post journalist, Jamal Kashoggi, illustrates how far ANY U.S. administration will go to protect the Saudis from public scrutiny. There is so much more to understand almost 20 years after 9/11. I highly recommend Seth Abramson's book, Proof of Conspiracy, to see how the Saudis are involved in setting up an international kleptocracy with nuclear weapons in the Saudi arsenal to protect their interests. The Doomsday Clock has been moved closer to midnight. http://bit.ly/doomsdayclock2020
5
The veracity of the Saudi government and all its employees, contractors and agents of every hue is nil. The murder of a Saudi national within their embassy in Turkey and their denials until evidence was overwhelming should remind us that this type of activity is current to this day. Just ask Mr. Bozos. Our government and every administration since 2011 has failed us in their investigations. It is a role of journalism to keep the flame alive. This article does just that.
4
It took me almost a whole day to read this. There were multiple interruptions but I wanted to know what it was that the ProPublica reporter had discovered.
When I got to the end, I was like huh? Is that it? I thought maybe I had missed something and that I should go back and reread the end section. Excuse the cliche but “ Where’s the Beef?”
I love the dedication and all out effort that Gonzalez and others did to turn over every stone. But there doesn’t seem to be a happy ending to this story for the Encore team.
What I think after reading this is that there may have been unsanctioned help from someone in the Saudi Department of Religion ( or what ever they call it ) who may have known and helped, but it is doubtful that it was sanctioned by the crown Prince or Royal family. The people involved flew below the radar or was some crazy third cousin that didn’t associate with the family.
Maybe history will prove us wrong and someone on their dying bed will tell what they know... maybe like the identity of Deep Throat? I keep waiting for that secret from Jackie Kennedy’s will to be revealed only after her children have all died.
The problem with all of these “maybe someday” endings is that the world has moved on and it will change very little. If you think “ truth matters “ have you been watching the McConnell sham Impeachment, where the jury has already made up its mind how the verdict will go? God bless people like Gonzalez and Shift. The world needs more like them.
6
It's been a while since I sat down to read such an interesting article. Thank you.
...but seriously what are "historical terrorism investigations"? :)
4
A mess, that is what it is, a big mess. Why? Maybe because that was an internal job and Saudi Arabia helped out. They were used because of their relationship with the US.
Now, think about this, if you took a person, taught the person to drive in an old Volkswagen, then put him on a big wheeler with a trailer on it and had him speed down an avenue, then make a right turn to ram a building; would the driver be able to make a right turn without wreaking his vehicle?
Just think about that small detail.
1
The evidence presented by Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth is not just compelling, it is definitive. It is based on - of all things- science and the basic laws of physics. These are the guys who design and construct large buildings like the Twin Towers and when all is said and done, there is no doubt these buildings were brought down by controlled demolitions. Most of these guys do not speculate on WHO did it, they just present the facts re the indisputable laws of physics of how big buildings like these fall.
That being said, plus all the other weird little documented facts around the whole situation , in my opinion, points to the collaboration of our own government, at the highest levels, in this national tragedy.
And that is why we will never in our lifetimes, or perhaps ever, see any honest investigation into 9/11. All the WHO’S will carefully guard their secrets forever.
1
I'm grateful there are people like Mr. Gonzales. Unfortunately, he was up against the biggest enemies of the truth; Ego, money and bureaucracy.
4
Once again the american people have been used as "cannon fodder" for the special interests that run this country. Young people sent to fight a war under false pretenses. Returning broken, in need of help, given a medal and living on the streets. Brainwashed with a false sense of patriotism that is twisted to benefit the oligarchs. Pumped up by nationalist rhetoric that profits greatly by, but cares nothing for their sacrifice.
4
Thank you NYT for this excellent reporting on the long investigation of our "frenemies" the Saudis. The treatment of the the investigators by their own agencies is nothing less than despicable. The obvious deduction to be made is 3000 American lives so brutally extinguished is not as valuable as relations with this evil monarchy.
7
When both opponents have their hands stained with the blood of innocents, lies perpetuated through history and guzzling oil in tonnage...
who did what and when, does it matter?
The House of El-Saud has not just American blood, but the blood of Sudanese (war), Yemenis (current wars) and loads of Pakistanis (bombings by groups supported by them,etc) on their hands.
On the other side, US hawkish foreign policy has interfered in every undeveloped country around the world, be it South America, the Middle East or South Asia, since the mid-1950s.
Oil, new mineral deposit excavations, exploitation of natural resources-- it's all about the money they generate and who controls them!
We, the minions, the general masses don't matter and never have-- and I mean an average American or an average Saudi.
The moneyed powerful rule this world.
And for sake of politics, there is no low they won't go to for it is an endless fall.
In the end, the more one reads the history the more one realizes, such men/women have all sold their souls to the Devil of power, luxury, control, money, and MORE power.
7
The only connection is the terrorists’ nationality! That’s it. The media should focus on Iran’s role in the attacks as it was ordered by law to pay the families’ victims.
1
9/11 changed the world for the worse, much worse, we would all like to know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth whatever the consequences.
3
Excellent job of investigative reporting . Hope the PULITZER is in line.
1
The CIA is mentioned frequently in this excellent, uncommonly detailed article.
However, since the CIA is so clearly the voice of the Military-Industrial-Complex, Wall Street interests, and the right wing of the Democrat and Republican party (sometimes referred to collectively as our Deep State government) Why the silence on the CIA's role in suppressing the information that Deep State does not wish the public to hear?
I used to think the the well-known, intense rivalry between the CIA and FBI caused the public to be ignorant on many vital matters. Unfortunately, as the FBI increasingly weakened since Bush took the CIA directly into the Oval Office 30 years ago; the FBI's role 20 years ago had distinctly diminished. In 2008, with the entry of Obama/Clinton, the FBI's goose was cooked, but until now, 30 years later,it has not been possible to just quietly close the FBI completely.
This article is a dramatic outline of the FBI's loss of power. Even Trump, who came in huffing and puffing about both the FBI and CIA has been re-brainwashed about who's who in the power scheme of Washington.
Meanwhile, the uninitiated and inexperienced, young lefty Democrats floundered around for 2 years trying to revive Mueller, Comey, and the other remnants of FBI power that we will see played out this week.
1
After having read this well researched story - if I were on the jury of deciding Saudi government guilt - I would vote to acquit them.
There is nothing presented here that rises to a "beyond a reasonable doubt".
I submit that if a 9/11 had not happened and this so called "plot" had been foiled long before a single plane took off - no one would implicate Saudi government.
I am not a Saudi nor am sympathetic to any of these causes - but just to support a lawsuit seeking millions - you could spend millions to milk that last cow.
What is amazing is that long after 9/11 commission and others - this team still found witnesses or "participants" that original team had never interviewed.
And that is troubling indeed.
Finally, having read IG report on FBI incompetence or outright falsehoods - I really don't think FBI is really good at anything "before" but do have resources to do an "after" investigation.
What? Trump didn't keep his word? Shocking! He's willing to declassify anything related to phantom Ukrainian election claims, but not the 9/11 investigation.
4
The day after either the oil runs out or the world no longer needs oil to run will be the day we know the whole truth.
1
A Simple truth emerges over and over again: when the US coddles or allies with dictatorships, autocrats, or theocracies, bad things happen. Following our democratic values in foreign policy is not naive, it is the best of real politics. Democracies, wherever they are, are our best allies, even when we disagree with them (eg, France, Germany, Japan, Israel).
Saudi Arabia, Egypt, China, Russia, etc. support policies that eventually harm our people. They suppress journalist, oppress their own people, and export terrible ideologies. No matter the short-term gain, it never works to the US favor in the long-term.
I wonder if we will ever learn.
4
Sebastian Rotella is one of the most intelligent, talented investigative reporters in the country. Never prone to hyperbole, you can absolutely rely on the depth of his investigation and the dispassionate, fair assessment of the evidence. Author, film maker (Frontline, etc.) and all around credit to Journalism. Don’t know his fellow writer well but will follow him closely too on the assumption that if Rotella works with him he is of equal caliber. Bless the NYT and ProPublica for this work.
2
I thought when the US regained energy independence it would allow it to shake off the Saudi shackles. Instead it has just doubled down on being anti Iran.
2
The real issue is that the hijackers were able to enter the U.S. even though the U.S. government knew they were Al-Aqaeda operatives. The American officials that allowed this to happen must be charged with crimes and then prosecutors, investigators will have the leverage to learn the truth.
3
If years ago, we factored the cost of our Middle Eastern policy into the price of oil, we would currently have the best public transportation in the world.
4
Interesting that Robert Mueller is involved in two investigations which were covered up. I hope we are finished with extolling his excellence and honesty as reasons to appoint him to anything else.
5
Thank you for the excellent reporting. The big question is, how do we break through this high level cover-up, the Justice Department’s intransigence, and actually get to the truth? I hope this article creates an outcry along the lines of the Me Too movement. Our government lies to us. What “national security” are they protecting? These state secrets would not reveal anything of national security to the Saudis. The Saudis already know about their involvement. The “national security” the Justice Department is trying to protect is keeping the American people from knowing how the highest level of the US government cares more about money than they do about the fact that the Saudis killed 3000 US citizens.
I always wondered why the US government came out with the Victims Compensation Fund so quickly after the 9/11 attacks, giving millions of dollars to families of the victims in return for them agreeing not to bring legal actions. It happened way too fast, before there was time to think about it. The government does not hand out money to victims of domestic terrorism, or other terrorist attacks, but they very quickly did so after 9/11. But thankfully some 9/11 families who did not collect under the VCF have continued to try and get to the truth.
My brothers died on 9/11 and the ramifications from that tragedy have continued to this day. For me and the thousands of other Americans in my shoes, please do not let this story die. Let’s not give up until we get the truth.
8
...Interesting article,...much circumstantial evidence but also much shrouded secrecy on the the part of the U.S. government. Notwithstanding,...it seems to me that a 'missed investigative opportunity' was about the fact that so many of the persons scrutinized in the investigations had the financial wherewithal to travel by flying somewhat extensively about the U.S. and...to and from foreign destinations....all the while appearing to be individuals who were of 'modest means'!
...Where was the money for all the travel coming from?...Certainly not from being students, washing cars or being security guards, etc. My advice to all of the investigative bodies is, "Follow the Money!"
6
In Osama bin Laden's own words, he said that the 9/11 attacks were a direct response to American military being stationed at bases in Saudi Arabia, where the Islamic holy cities of Mecca and Medina are located. They had already attacked one of those bases. See the Kobar Towers incident.
Furthermore, bin Laden sited U.S. military and political support for the despotic Saudi regime that is responsible for atrocities against it's critics many of whom are from rival religious sects.
The U.S. just expelled twelve Saudis for having terrorist sympathies. They were being U.S. trained at Pensacola Naval Air Station. So, what has the U.S. learned from Saudi involvement in 9/11? Nothing, apparently, or we are turning a blind eye to the threat. U.S. is still at risk for another Saudi inspired terrorist incident.
12
I was probably more convinced of Saudi involvement before I read this article. In the end if the FBI investigates individuals for federal crimes then it can quickly stall out with not enough evidence to prosecute. What if Americans had done the same in Saudi? Do you not think there would have been international outrage, and retaliation or sanctions? We weren't going to attack Saudi. Period. So we fought a proxy war in Iraq. Much nicer terrain, just one big plain, to roll out our tanks.
3
I think what sticks in my craw is the idea that the Justice Department ( and CIA and NSA and one) can hide details of a major investigation, announcing to us peons and taxpayers that there's nothing there to see, but if we all were to see what was there, it would create a disruption in our relationship with the Saudis.
Trump's use of the word "Deep State" does seem to apply to some of this, and his AG ( along with others) is very adept in applying claims of necessary secrecy as he so wishes.
We aren't, and were never, apparently, supposed to worry our little heads about who exactly supported the 9/11 murderers. And in addition, we weren't supposed to catch on to how our own agencies failed us in part because of interagency secrecy, squabbles and hierarchies.
Due to massive lack of transparency, secrecy and manipulation of intelligence, the US government managed to create new generations of enemies and interminable war.
That the NYT can present this report is something that could not happen in many other countries, true. But what depths of investigation it has taken! And if the only hope for clarity is in looking backward, how can the public ever make political decisions based on something approaching truth?
11
The awqaf (mosque foundations) in Saudi Arabia have a variety of different funding sources and are coordinated by the ministry of awqaf. All that means is that significant funds could be dispensed from one or another waqf (singular form) without being directly controlled by the Saudis. Given the size of the upper echelons of the royal family, it's anybody's guess. Some of them are quite ideologically committed to Salafism. Others are quite westernized. But it's fair to say that the basic structure favored the spread of a doctrine and empowered players hostile to the U.S. It's somewhat like the Boston Catholic Irish Clergy and the Harrod's bombing (1983). One would be hard pressed to find a Bishop or Cardinal who "ordered" the bombing....much less a U.S. governor, senator, or president. But the activity of pro-IRA elements in the U.S. in support of the IRA in Ireland was definitely tolerated. U.S. authorities could likely have shut that activity down, but they didn't. But it would be the devil's own work to trace a specific terrorist act in Ireland or Great Britain to the upper echelons of the Church or the government here.
6
Good start. Next step - the Saudi Papers, in the footsteps of the Pentagon Papers, Watergate, Afghanistan Papers. The free world is 100% dependent on the truths that emerge from the work of investigative journalists and concerned citizens.
19
People come up with conspiracy theories because our government makes strange decisions. Ignoring the facts because of foreign relationship reasons leads to inept law enforcement and creates mistrust of our FBI and CIA. Americans are not children who can't handle the truth. There are too many unanswered questions about 9/11, and they shouldn't go away until they are answered. We all remember the Bush friends, the Saudi royalty, fleeing the U.S when all other flights were grounded. The readers who mention OIL are on the right track.
10
Where was the State Department? The article references an unnamed Saudi diplomat -- but says nothing about the U.S. State Department.
It also occurs to me to ask whether the unnamed Saudi diplomat was trying to help bin Laden -- or possibly communicate with the State Department and warn us?
If the United States had ratified the Rome Statute establishing the International Criminal Court, perhaps bin Laden and his co-conspirators could have been tried there.
What might we have learned? What part of the discovery would have been open?
And what might we have avoided? The Iraq War, legalized American torture, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo.
What a series of fiascoes!
5
This is all about Big Oil forcing the federal government to cover up any and all Saudi involvement in the 9/11 attack. While you do have a segment of the government wanting to do it's job the rest of the government accepts it's direction from their corporate overlords.
7
Steve
I would be most interested in how and why the Bin Laden family was spurred out of the country even before the public were told of the extent of family involvement.
8
It was obvious from the beginning there was strong Saudi involvement given the hijackers' nationality. Would it really be a surprise if there was support from the more radical quarters of Saudi power?
Every regime has elements with competing ideologies and interests, including rogue players. Wouldn't it be more productive to work with those forces in the Saudi govt that are more moderate and could try to curtail the Wahabbist clerics promoting violence abroad? It seems that by trying to prove the obvious, all we did was jeopardize that. And to what end? Do we really think the Saudi crown is going to hand anyone over for prosecution, especially with a massive lawsuit hanging over their heads?
I admire these agents for pursuing the case on behalf of victims but it sounds like their higher ups were more interested in preventing the next attack and protecting all of us.
2
Amidst all the chaos and whirlwind that is the Trump brand ... I wonder -- and worry -- how much attention, much less traction, this very important deep dive into the factions behind 9/11 will garner with the public.
A public who really, really, really should want answers to these very basic -- and provable -- questions nearly 19 years on.
We shall see. However, I sincerely appreciate this effort by the NYTimes and ProPublica, and the dedicated agents who haven't let this go.
Families, including mine, are still fighting for the evidence of Saudi complicity at the highest levels to be able to be released and heard in open court.
And families won't quit. It may take a generation or three, but they will not stop nor rest.
22
@jazz one
It is probable that the Saudis were involved, but not alone.
This attack precipitated the wars against certain middle eastern nations. Whomever benefited or wanted that was also likely to be involved.
2
"The evidence they developed was nearly all circumstantial. But it added to the questions about the role of the Saudi government."
The idea that the government of Saudi Arabia orchestrated the 9/11 attacks on the Twin Towers is laughable. Of what possible benefit to Riyadh would such an attack be, given the close strategic alliance between the US and Saudi Arabia?
Circumstantial evidence is that used to manufacture conspiracy theories.
Not dissimilar to what we are seeing on Capitol Hill these days.
5
I don’t think you fully read this article. Multiple times it states that the investigators didn’t think that the Saudi royal family (and/or govmt leadership) had foreknowledge of the plot or was involved. Rather, they thought that certain individuals within the govmt - lower or mid-level diplomats, spies or clerics - possibly had knowledge of the plot, or knew of their extremist ideology (and/or jihadist affiliations) - though possibly not the plot - and nevertheless went out of their way to assist them upon their arrival.
To view this idea as conspiratorial implies that you see the Saudi government/state in the framework of an organized secular democracy; this is not the case. The Saudi govmt is a monarchy that’s intent upon 1) clinging to total power internally & 2) spreading its power and influence across the ME. The govmt has long used Wahhabism, a strict and often extremist religious strain, to accomplish both of these goals.
In WW1, German leadership deliberately encouraged communist ideology in Russia as a means to an end - which worked, Russia went revolutionary & made “peace.” But the ideological flames they fanned turned into a fire that set Germany alight too, & played a role in turning the people agst the war, the Kaiser, etc. The point is not to validate the whole “stabbed in the back by the socialists” theory; it’s to say that ideology - be it communism or Wahhabism - is not a precision weapon, and it has a way of exceeding its intentions.
4
Exactly my sentiments. Without the US military backing Saudi would be in a hellstorm of Islamic radicals looking to overthrow the (relatively) moderate monarchy. It’s ridiculous to think they would bite the hands that feed them.
1
Anyone expecting Trump to act on a sense of morality and/or ethics is sure to be disappointed. Fro time to time he talks the talk, but he never quite manages to walk the walk.
The Republican Party should be described as the Limbo Party: No matter how low the bar is set, the Republicans will slide under it.
19
Just recently when MBS had Jamal Khassoggi cruely cut to bits with a surgical saw, I was struck by how similar it was to the 9/11 attacks a team of 15 or so Saudis fly in do the deed and disappear.
11
The biggest deception of our times. Think back to 9/11 and the two years after. All of this evidence of Saudi official support was hidden.
At the same time the very real indication of Saudi support was hidden, the Bush Administration was manufacturing stories to blame Iraq for 9/11. A big lie.
Along with the support for the 9/11 hijackers, the Saudis have funded the most extreme form of Islam around the world. Saudi money has flowed to Indonesia, the Philippines, Syria, and East and West Africa. Saudis send money to insurgents killing US troops in Iraq.
Now, with the killing of Adnan Khashoggi and the hacking of Jeff Bezos's phone, it seems more and more clear that the upcoming young leader, Mohammed Bin Salman, is a dangerous person.
When will the USA wake up?
45
@Thomas
It was Jamal Khashoggi who was murdered in Turkey. Adnan Khasoggi was a Saudi businessman, arms dealer, and pal of the Marcos family in the Philippines.
2
"On orders from the F.B.I.’s new director, Robert S. Mueller III, Penttbom set up its command center in a poorly lit room in the basement of the J. Edgar Hoover Building in Washington, where the F.B.I. is headquartered".
Mueller's decision to set up a command center in a poorly lit room appears to be a metaphor for what Washington's elite has done for nearly 20 years. That is to keep Americans in the dark about their feckless disregard of intelligence leading up to 9/11 and their culpability in the death of 3,000 Americans.
20
@tim k
Nonsense. There was NO intelligence leading up to 9/11 other than a couple of disconnected reports about some Arabs learning to fly large airplanes.
There was NO intelligence failure.
Rather, there was a failure of the imagination.
1
Saudis are subjects, not citizens and that is a significant distinction.
10
Immediately after 9/11, an article in The New Yorker claimed that SA was to blame. I believe the article claimed that SA was vulnerable to attack, and basically funded and assisted terrorists so that SA would be left alone. I often wondered why there was never anything more about it in the media.
9
@Stacey
Vulnerable to attack... from the United States?
Just because an article appeared in the New Yorker, are we to take it at face value?
Capitalism... now and forever, by any means whatsoever. Are you a shareholder??
(Occasionally, someone misbehaves in a most unruly manner! And 400 fire fighter and countless civilians did not have to lose their lives if they are simply been told to evacuate. I understand that certain executives told their workers/employees that they would be fired if they left.. (Selling must go on.) And the firemen's equipment did not work. (Families were paid off.)
Furthermore, it was known that there were huge problems with the WTC bldgs. fireproofing system.. The change to a non-asbestos material had just begun... and the steel elements were not properly coated nor was the bldg. constructed to a code that supposed (as it should have) that a plane might crash into it!)
Plenty of stupid and greedy and corrupt and arrogant and wicked and mean to go around. Many are culpable and very rich.
3
I have listened for years to Architects and Engineers for 911 truth. It's hard to believe all their conclusions but equally hard to deny them. It is very easy to understand how they can say that bldg 7 was a controlled demolition. That means the owner of that building, who also owned the lease to rest of the WTC knew in advance of the attack.
Unlimited funds for invasions of two countries and the surveillance of this country was opened wide because of 911. The Pentagon is the least audited department of the government. It must be riddled with graft. The ME was awash in bribery and unaccounted wealth from the US post 911.
Maybe that was the entire point? The dogs of war have to eat.
The Pentagon and the Israelis all had something to gain from the 911 attack. The Pentagon had a gigantic budget to play with and it diverted animosity from within. Remember the attack of Oklahoma City not much earlier? That was suicidal domestic rage. The 911 attack directed pent up anger outward. The Israelis had been the object of the frustration and rage of the second intifada for about a year. Actually I think the Saudi government had the least official reason to be involved except to salve the arab frustration with the injustice of their own governments and the fate of the Palestinians.
The romans used the games to direct and satisfy the aggression of their own populations. Perhaps 911 was the new equivalent of the games for the modern imperial world order, global village?
10
The questions you bring up are ones that need to be explored much more. Architects and Engineers for 9-11 Truth have compiled some pretty compelling theories and information. It's very discouraging that what this and other 9-11 Truth groups have to say has been summarily dismissed as conspiracy theories, and it certainly makes having any kind of meaningful dialogue difficult, to say the least.
10
There were also legal barriers complicating communication between the FBI and CIA before 9/11.
https://fas.org/irp/eprint/wall.pdf
The laws and/or enforcement may have changed since 9/11.
The politics of deployment of FBI and CIA inquiries, legal oversight, and coordination have not gotten better, under Trump.
1
The USA lives in a culture of instant gratification. Memories are short. Results have to be immediate or they are forgotten.
In the Middle East, memories are infinite. Patience is sustained. Time is of little consequence.
I believe the Saudis/Wahhabis have long term objectives to undermine Israel and Western oppression in their lands. They see the Israeli benefits from US Jews significant representation in the Us Administration.
They are building an Islamic culture across the USA to counteract the Jewish influence.
Religion is all about power. It always has been. Control people's faith and you control their minds. The Catholics still have a huge significance around the world. Islam does too. But Judaism accomplishes more politically because of US commitments to Israel. It is inevitable that Islam, and especially Wahhabism, will sustain long term efforts to infiltrate our Administration.
While we were combating Communism we were ignoring the increasing influence of religion in our Government. We cannot allow that to happen unless we want to end up living in a puritanical society.
We are in a religious war whether we like it or not. I don't like it at all. You shouldn't either.
12
The original retired FBI director before Mueller died working security in the Twin Towers.
We learned from Michael Moore in Farenheit 9-11 that the Bin Laden family got to fly home right after the attacks even when Bush Jr grounded every American plane including his father’s. Then Snowden went on Joe Rogan’s podcast a few months ago and said Bush shut down the NSA and told them to evacuate even though there was no immediate threat to their building and the staff was ready to go to work.
Bush betrayed us. Then he lied again and sent us into Iraq, betraying us again.
And every President and Congress ever since we found oil in Saudi Arabia and Eisenhower warned us of the Congressional-Military-Industrial-Complex has betrayed us to the Saudis.
Until citizens unite, end Citizens United and vote in a candidate that refuses bribes and will stand up to Saudi Arabia the betrayals will continue.
Bernie/Tulsi 2020
Until Citi
10
Why is everybody whining? Switch names - Saudi or USA leaders do and act the same NOW...shame. oh wait Saudi mothers get paid maternal leave. usa women do not.
2
There's 110 Billion reasons why the US let Saudi Arabia skate.
Defense contracts. Also, the Saudis need to throw a bone (sometimes a big one) to the zealots in their own country who love jihad and hate America. Not easy being a Saudi royal.
All that money, all those cars, the spoiled kids, the wives to keep satisfied...suddenly a trip to Culver City now and then looks fun.
(and Falls Church to see the Washington Monument!!)
2
A google search of Islamist Jihadists with China, Burma or East Pakistan turns up information about Islamic disruptions in these and several other Southeastern Asian countries. Typical of the unrest is Burma when hundreds of Islamic militants attacked three security outposts along the Bangladesh border killing 9 officers. While information by western news and ambassadorial services is sketchy, the government said the assailants were members of a jihadist group, Aqa Mul Mujahidin, which authorities claimed was led by a man who was trained by the Taliban in Pakistan and financially supported by foreign terrorist groups. I am of the opinion that Wahabbism is a fundamental threat to this country as well as to world order. The Islamists take advantage of Western sympathy and fair play sensibilities while hiding within minority Muslim populations who become the victims of suppression (China) or ethnic cleansing (Burma.) The focus of Islamic ire is no secret as 9-11-01 proved: While they call it Western Imperialism, it is in fact our heritage from the Enlightenment: democratic political and social institutions, science and individual freedom.
1
I've always doubted whether "President" Cheney took Bush into the confidences of the "Presidential" inner-circle. Bush was a loose cannon with a short attention span (remind you of anybody?), a big mouth, and just too stupid to be allowed anywhere near actual decisions.
I think Cheney is a monster who should be in prison at The Hague, but you gotta hand it to him. He managed to run the country and national security establishment for 8 years, while making Bush think he was actually the President.
19
Even someone in kindergarten would have been able to give the right answer. If 15 out of 19 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia then what country do you think was involved. George W. was so busy protecting his friends in the oil business in Saudi Arabia that he had the Bin Laden family flown out of the US when nobody else could fly. He spent the next few years buddying up so closely to Prince Bandar, one of the many Saudi princes, that I thought it bordered on treason. The prince, and therefore Saudi Arabia, had the ear of the president.
After months of thought, he destroyed Iraq, when we should have bombed Saudi Arabia into oblivion. Saudi Arabia has financed Muslim terrorism around the world. When they are not doing that they are spreading their backward form of Islam which causes trouble in formerly peaceful nations. Now that it is out that Saudi Arabia was involved we will do nothing because the most repressive nation on earth is our friend. As the saying goes, "With friends like that, we don't need enemies. "
14
Shout out to Pro Publica a non profit news organization and a national treasure. Go to their website to find out more and donate to their work.
https://www.propublica.org
17
Excellent reporting & writing.
How many smoking guns do we need before we change our position with SA?
I’m guessing not until the oil runs out and/or we get into it with Iran.
12
The families may have been stunned that Trump apparently changed his mind regarding release of 9/11 material, but I'm certainly not. On the contrary, I would be stunned if he kept his word.
23
I cannot believe neither the NYT, or any commenters, made any effort to understand that Al Qaeda's hatred of the al-Saud family makes 9/11 terrorist involvement of the Saudi government impossible. The initial primary goal of Al Qaeda was to overthrow the royal family and replace it with a stricter, more fundamentalist ideology. Yes, Wahhabism is fundamentalist, but to al Qaeda the royal family had betrayed Islam through wealth, luxury and western alliances. The key event that turned al Qaeda toward terrorism outside of Saudi Arabia was the royal family allowing western forces, primarily American, to land planes and troops there in great numbers during the Kuwait War. To al Qaeda, this was sacrilege - the royal family deliberately contaminating the holy land due to weakness and apostasy: the royal family had conceded that they could not rule without the American military. This has always been the case, but the Kuwait War brought this home.
Therefore, whatever tenuous connections there might have been to Saudi spies, the Saudi government at the time was not on the side of the al Qaeda - unless they were individual sympathizers. A royal family that cannot defend the holy sites or survive militarily without Americans is not going to support terrorist acts on the scale of 9/11 against Americans, and the evidence overwhelming shows that they did not.
2
@Anna Base What you say is true, but consider that the royal Saudi Family that wants to stay in power must balance the Islamist terrorist Wahhabis against their need for US military/government support. While the Royal house of Saud may not know all the details, they do however support the Wahhabis. With Saudi money, the Wahhabis were able to aid the terrorist 9/11 attacks, and many other terrorist attacks around the world.
It is disgusting that our US government supports an evil empire like the Saudi royal family. We are paying for that support, with the blood of all that have been victims of these terrorist attacks. And yet, the US government military complex does benefit from this collaboration. Plus, by partnering with Saudi Arabia, there can be the benefit of protecting Israel. Where all this goes in the future is going to be a huge problem. Will we be able to continue to support Israel, keep Iran from causing future nuclear war, and keep the evil monarchies that control so much of the ME in line? The current open warfare between the Sunnis (Saudi Arabia etc.) and the Shia ( Iran, parts of Iraq ) factions of Islam is another layer to the already difficult situation in the ME.
How does the US exit the ME, without sacrificing Israel? Perhaps diplomacy will someday allow a solution, but it will take decades of effort.
2
@Anna Base
Osama Bin Laden was a nephew to the Saudi Royal family. You should try researching outside of the oil bubble.
You know who was contracted to design and install the security for the twin towers?
Bin Laden Group.
You know which family had huge oil contracts and were bedfellows with the Bin Ladens?
The Bush family.
For months before the attack on 9-11 people working in floors below and above the stories that were hit by the plane complained of drilling and construction sounds. But no one was allowed on those floors. Was somebody drilling dynamite into the columns? The video of the way the tower collapsed suggests so.
And no one seems to remember when an Al Qaeda operative bombed the basement of the towers back in ‘92.
Well, Bush Sr. did. He knew it was Saudi retaliation for his invasion into Kuwait. But allowing an attack on the twin towers was a perfect false flag. All the Bush family needed to do was let it happen. Hide behind Cheney and pretend they were stupid. Boy was Jr good at that.
Greedy defense contractors with no sovereignty, no dignity, no patriotism; that’s what we’re up against. All they’ll ever care about is scaring and bribing money out of Congress, at our expense, taking their toxic welfare checks for as long as we let them.
But we can take our freedom back.
Bernie/Tulsi 2020
1
I'm not at all a fan of the Saudi government, but it's hard to imagine what motive they could have for conspiring in the 9/11 attack.
I'm assuming that the Saudis are rationally self-interested.
2
The US will continue to be the dominant force on earth. No other force will come after .Russia and China will continue to rival the US but at the end of the day things will be sorted out between them. Iran will never fulfill their dream of Persian empire. The Arabic countries will always seek diplomacy with the Giants. The wars in Afghanistan Iraq and Syria left million of dead people millions of orphans and widows that will take hundred of years to recover. Maybe Until the come back of the son of Marry to explain everything without lying.
1
Who stood (stands) to gain by the clearly visible cover-up of the Saudi Arabian government: just follow the money, from the Bush family to djt.. If the wealthy are at the seat of power, they will always protect themselves and their foreign friends, with no regard for the truth.
4
I wish I never read the article. I've known some of the content from reading over the years, but never in that detail. Being a career NYC paramedic for over 25 years, I was there on 9/11 and lost friends, co-workers and bore witness to the devastation it caused families. I was daily at the family center on the pier at W59 Street, every time I would have to excuse myself and walk outside to shed my tears in private. Listening to the screams of family members desperate for news of their loved ones still tears my insides as much as thinking about that dreadful day itself.
This is the last thing you want to know of your country or even suspect. Being fair that this is the third administration continuing the wall of silence all in the name of petro is inexcusable. When you factor all this and the current state of our republic, its pretty dreadful. Shame on us.
40
Dear Phil, I am humbled by your unimaginably difficult service and saddened by what you and so many other good ordinary people endured in those darkest of days for our nation. We must, I fear, wait a bit longer for government that is truly of, for, and by the people. One of the indelible lessons I have learned from viewing America at a distance is how terribly important money is. We have an obscurant oligarchy instead of a healthy and transparent democratic republic. The sickness of our national soul for wealth and unprincipled domination, will continue to burden us and our fellow nations until we achieve what we were meant to. God save the Union and bless those many decent people like yourself who havrnntruly worked for, and believed in, it!
7
@Phil
Thank you for giving of yourself so completely during that horrible time.
We are grateful, forever.
~ 9/11 family member
3
Hello Phil,
Thank you for your service. Paramedics do God’s work, as far as I’m concerned. I am thankful I do not know anyone who died that day, nor do I know people who did. Your experience must have been awful. But I have long known, just by reading, and just by deduction (15 of the 19) that the Saudis were heavily involved. It’s all about money and tainted ideology. We fool ourselves if we believe our government will ever hold the guilty accountable. Not for 911 or for much else. Hypocrisy and financial gain hold sway. Always have. Always will.
1
If the Saudi military officer in Pensacola who killed Americans recently had been from any other country, even Norway, we'd be having a different discussion about military training.
Money corrupts. We all know it. And we know it's not going to change.
10
Seems pretty simple to me . those in charge simply don't care, it's always about the money not matter how many people die . just like the W.M.D's that never existed . People are expendable for a price .
12
The worst perpetrator was our own CIA that refused to cooperate with the FBI team that could have prevented the attacks. If our own counter terrorism agencies do not share information we are doomed to more attacks.
Saudi Arabia was complicit either directly or indirectly and have their own agenda. This would be a moot point if we had prevented 9/11.
Read or watch “The Looming Tower” renowned journalist Lawrence Wright’s account of the long lead up to the attack.
10
American lives, and the heartbroken families of 9/11 victims, actually mean nothing to the American government. We, the people, are expendable when our value is weighed against that of a deep-pocketed authoritarian government which tortures its people, kills dissidents and arms itself with American weapons.
Hardly the land of the free and the home of the brave, is it?
6
In the end it is all about money, greed, protecting powerful politicians' interests as well as oligarchs and plutocrats.
Trump and his ilk are a prime examples.
11
It’s oil and lucrative arms sales by U.S. companies that makes the U.S. turn a blind eye while Saudi Arabia carried out diabolical acts of terrorism, murder, and one of the most cruel acts against Jamal Khoshoggi. Pure greed. And the Jared Kushner and MBF connection– do you think they discussed world peace or real estate in meetings? A documentary set for release soon called “The Dissident” by Bryan Fogel should contain some more interesting revelations.
7
So few people even ask the question of how a plane could completely disappear, as we were told happened to Flight 93 in Shanksville, PA. What other plane crash can you find where there is just literally nothing left at the crash site? This just does not happen. The persistent lies and disinformation from our own government around 9-11 and the acceptance of these lies is truly mind boggling.
11
Osama bin Laden was a wealthy Saudi - the Saudi hijackers were trained in the US (sound familiar), the Saudis fund schools around the world for young boys, the Saudi royal family is bankrupt without oil. What does the US get in return? Dancing with the sheiks.
6
This is explosive information. If you read the court brief. It looks like the Saudis have our investigative efforts in their pocket and we are in trouble. This is a cover up. And it also looks like the Trump administration is continuing to play into this in an even bigger way than ever before.
9
What about the hunt for Ayman al-Zawahiri? We got OBL but #2 is still out there and deserves the same fate as his leader.
2
Please don't forget that the Bush administration didn't want to learn anything from their predecessors.
It is all too likely that had Gore been installed in office (he actually won the election, mind you, despite the cheating), not only would we be on a human-centric path to deal with global warming/climate change, but 9/11 plotters would have been caught. It was Republican arrogance that refused to pay attention to the information.
Trump is even worse: he will not learn anything from anybody, and wants to actively destroy anything Obama or Democrats did. Even at the cost of continuing injustice and trickle up to the rich and powerful. There is an almighty crash a-comin' thanks to the promotion of victim blaming, violence, and ignorance.
17
@Susan Anderson .. yes, I doubt many realize that Gore is another Democrat who won the popular vote (even with the Supremes intervention in Florida) but lost in the Electoral College. I am not sure how many of his ideas would now be policy, but I agree we’d be better off. Even if 911 still occurred under his watch, I doubt he would have invaded Iraq like Bush did. And that’s huge.
4
@Susan Anderson
As published in the NYT (albeit on page 17), after the election CNN, NYT, UPI, WAPO all paid to have the recount done just to see what would have happened. Gore did gain a few votes, but only a handful and Bush still had 400 some votes more than Gore, thus winning FL and the election. Sorry to burst your bubble.
If they want to explore all those responsible for the attacks, they should take a look at Peter Lance's book - Triple Cross. In it he details the actions of Ali Mohammed, the real mastermind behind the 9-11 plot. I'm amazed the wider media haven't followed up on. Lance's excellent reporting.
1
Shock and awe. It’s money!
2
I believe most people have understood the Saudis were involved. Now it’s confirmed as much as it can be almost 19 years later. When I think about the people who lost their lives that day, the pain their loved ones have endured all these years, including the two students in the school where I taught who lost family in the towers, and our future teacher’s father who also died in the towers, it enrages me as much as it did on that day. The passing of time has not changed that.
9
Saudi Arabia has deep roots in sponsorship of terrorism. It is most responsible for establishing religious schools throughout the Muslim world that has produced some of the most radical expressions of their faith. A breeding ground for terrorism.
9/11 was not the first act terror. Least we forget the Twin Towers were bombed before. Those responsible were Sunni militants.
After 9/11, we encountered resistance in our post-2003 Iraqi invasion. By supporting Iraqi Shiites, we faced Sunni anger. Anbar province, a Sunni stronghold, became a bleeding sore. The dismissed Saddam army evolved into guerrilla fighters. They were supplemented by “volunteers” that crossed borders like Syria. Money, arms, and encouragement came from Saudi Arabia. The claim that the government had no control over its private citizens is ludicrous in a country that suppresses its own Shiite citizens along the Gulf. Comparing US casualties caused by Shiite fighters and Sunni fighters would show that we suffered more at the hands of the Sunni combatants than Shiite.
These fanatics morphed into ISIS. Alongside a reborn al Qaeda, these terrorists appeared in Syria and turned their arms against us as well as Russia and Syria. Their arms, pay and replacements did not come from Tehran. These Sunni radicals received their support from our friends.
The price of oil is not just in dollars and cents, but in the lives of our citizens.
25
I applaud Tim Golden for his always excellent research and reporting. Memory lane--sadness, and never to be forgotten-- for me, as I worked with Jackie, Tommy, Carlos and others mentioned in this article, some before and after 9/11. One element not mentioned in the piece, though, and it's a very important one to keep in mind, is that AQ, and particularly KSM's gang, were very good, even obsessive, about need to know and compartmentalization. As an example, and if not for the intervention of UBL himself, in summer 2001, one of the hijackers mentioned in the article was about to be thrown off the team because of his unauthorized trip home related to his homesickness and wanting to see his new bride--and KSM's concern that it would compromise the operation, the precise details of which were even at that time unknown to most of the eventual hijackers.
17
Does anyone think that if 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers came from a nation such as Uruguay, which hardly has any oil reserves, there would even be an Uruguay left? I don’t.
It’s simply about oil, folks. And for the people who thought Trump was going to come in and ask these hard questions to other nations concerning “our” national interest because he was an “outsider,” I have some some lyrics from The Who for you: “Meet the new boss- same as the old boss.”
386
@Dave But, we are Getting Fooled Again...aren't we?
12
@Dave /I couldn't agree more.
What baffles me is that anyone might think otherwise?
Would we have Amazon 2-day Prime delivery of products made on the other side of the world without cheap oil?
I know our culture is currently against reflection in general, but think about this:
Would the US communities across our country still have our blue collar jobs if it wasn't so much cheaper to build cars outside of the country and then ship them to our country so we can buy them without cheap oil to do all the shipping required?
Ma and pa hardware and pharmacies across the country might still exist too, along with a host of other businesses that directly benefit the communities in which they are located.
Instead the profits are sucked out of these communities and into the shareholder's pockets, pockets that own and control too much of the world as it is.
Not to mention all the soldiers lost to wars in the sand.
9/11 need not have ever happened...
.
29
@Dave Trump recently sent our military to defend Saudi Arabia’s oil fields. Now, our military men and women are used as mercenaries under Trump.
46
Whoever thinks the FBI, CIA and NSA are out to protect the American people are delusional. They are there to protect the status quo and the interests of rich oligarchs and their businesses. The U.S. government protecting the interests of the rich and powerful at the expense of human suffering has been true since before the U.S. Civil War.
It is not in the interest of the U.S. government to blame the Saudi government for promoting Islamic extremism and terrorism worldwide, despite all evidence to the contrary. That the Saudi government hates the West is meaningless to America's power structure who has vested interests in the fossil fuel industry (such as the Koch Brothers). The fossil fuel industry and their lobbyist have bought and paid for politicians who are serving in the White House and the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives to keep out of the way of their interests and don't give a darn about 'the People.'
I'm in Texas and the whole state political structure revolves around promoting and expanding the fossil fuel industry at the expense of its people, air and water. All the fossil fuel industry and their owners care about is making more money at the expense of our planet and people.
649
Louisiana is very similar as far as the fossil fuel industry. Simply look at plethora of offshore wells off the coast of Louisiana. Specifically, in the Gulf of Mexico, like BP's infamous "Deepwater Horizon".
70
@Sasha Love
You act as though the "fossil fuel industry" is some alien entity.. its not. The people of Texas ARE the fossil fuel industry.
..You refer to 'the People' as though they are some innocent, pure thing.. The people (especially in Texas) support, maintain, & thrive off the fossil fuel industry..----
--So spare me your populist nonsense about 'the People'..
38
@mike "The People" of Texas, and Saudi Arabia for that matter, do NOT share in the wealth derived from fossil fuel extraction. That is hoarded by the greedy profiteers. To suggest otherwise is ignorant at least and deliberately disingenuous at worst.
43
Given all the publicly known facts and circumstances, it would extremely surprising if the al Saud family did not either surreptitiously sponsor the 9/11 attacks, or at least know in advance about the attacks and kept that foreknowledge secret from everyone except possibly a few senior officials in the Bush/Cheney administration.
The al Saud monarchy always has been domestically unstable and dependent upon support from Wahbabi Islamists. The al Saud family is close to the bin Laden family. Both could have cut off Osama's funding but did not. The al Saud family also has been very close to the Bush family for decades and was a major source of Bush family oil wealth.
Although all other planes were grounded, the Bush administration arranged a secret flight for members of the al Saud family to escape from the U.S. immediately after 9/11.
The 9/11 attack produced a ring of American bases protecting the al Saud monarchy from its opponents,both foreign and domestic. The only people who gained from 9/11 were Al Qaida for a few years, and the al Sauds for decades.
Throughout our history, the U.S. government has committed and covered up myriad crimes (particulary against third world nations such as Iran and Nicaragua), usually for the benefit of powerful corporations and the wealthy families who own them.
The 9/11 attacks would be fully consistent with past practices of both nations.
402
@Been There If you care to research it there was an article in the New York Times on September 10, 2001 stating that a delegation of Saudi officials had canceled their trip to the US that day. It was a small item — maybe two or three sentences — but I never heard anything more about it after the following day.
94
@Been There A private plane picked up the members of the Bin Laden family in the NE who were rounded up very quickly.
13
@Been There
As bin laden had publicly called for the death and overthrow of the Saudi royal family on at least two occasions, that I am aware of, and as the U.S. has always been the Saudi’s most important ally, it seems highly improbable that any senior member of the royal family or the Saudi government (essentially the same thing) would assist in an attack on the US. Aid someone who wants to kill you to attack your most powerful ally? Really?
6
Wow! More confirmation that Barr is only interested in supporting his "side" and not in impartial justice or finding facts. Of course Trump's close relationship (and likely more, including financial dependency) with MBS would, in his simple direct regardless-of-corruption manner, seeking his own advantage, lead to his supporting the Saudis over the facts.
Barr and Trump, what a recipe for disaster! Their supporters seem uninterested in anything but their narrow short-term advantage.
23
Meanwhile, the Bush administration needed no investigation whatsoever to nearly blame Iraq and Saddam for actively helping Al Qaeda. One standard for the friends, a completely different one for long time foes. No wonder the Middle East is more of a mess today post 2003
31
A lot of people got really really rich off the MidEast wars and it gave a lot of aimless men with nothing to do something to do.
Don’t you wonder why Saudi Arabia with all that money doesn’t have companies that make things or invent things or even first class educational institutions doing research? Saudi Arabia sends 60,000 students to the US each year. That’s getting rid of 60,000 capable and intellectually curious people who could cause trouble.
16
There's a frustration reading articles such as these because one begins to think themselves a conspiracy theorist. The simple answer is that senior leaders of the intelligence agencies were lazy. That would explain that the CIA didn't inform the FBI of the hijackers presence in the US. That would explain the refusal to dig deeper or look into the journal with drawings.
But what laziness doesn't explain is the Obama veto of the court case, the deportation of a source who would presumably be *easier* to be left alone as a source than deported through substantial effort.
Lazy intelligence officials would be a truly terrible thing to exist, but the solely publicly available evidence continually points toward substantial and substantive Saudi governmental knowledge, support, and advancement of the 9/11 plot.
That leads to another quandary of self-questioning conspiracy theorizing. Are senior U.S. officials covering up that knowledge out of the craven political benefit of not appearing ignorant and naive? Or are they doing so for more nefarious reasons, like to continue to maintain strong relations with a state sponsor of the deadliest attack on American civilians ever?
13
@Frank
Or how about a "trigger" for the evisceration of Saddam and the looting of Iraq? The "911" mythos not only secured the careers of some now rather seedy characters but provided a divine opportunity for the hawks to descend on Bagdad.
And the rest is history, no doubt doomed to repeat itself.
2
Interesting.
"The report is a result of a behind-the-scenes battle between the committee and the Bush administration over classified information. One lengthy section, on the cooperation of foreign governments like Saudi Arabia, was deleted at the insistence of the administration."
https://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/24/us/9-11-congressional-report-faults-fbi-cia-lapses.html
G. W. Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz? Who in the administration?
3
We need to recognize that 9/11 was the work of certain Saudis and that we covered up the royal family’s involvement.
Our government (bipartisan) is complicit.
20
This is interesting but not new. One only has to look at how the 911 Commission operated and how they were hamstrung by the USG when they went anywhere near the Saudis. There is still much that we don't know about that day, including how Bldg 7 collapsed without being hit by a plane. But I don't believe that the public will ever know the truth. I am still waiting for Trump to authorize the release of the secret documents relating to Nov 22, 1963 but I know that they will never see the light of day.
16
@Abbott Hall
"On September 11, 2001, the structure was damaged by debris when the nearby North Tower of the World Trade Center collapsed. The debris also ignited fires, which continued to burn throughout the afternoon on lower floors of the building. The building's internal fire suppression system lacked water pressure to fight the fires, and the building collapsed completely at 5:21:10 pm, according to FEMA,[5]:23 while the 2008 NIST study placed the final collapse time at 5:20:52 pm.[6]:19, 21, 50–51 The collapse began when a critical internal column buckled and triggered structural failure throughout, which was first visible from the exterior with the crumbling of a rooftop penthouse structure at 5:20:33 pm. The collapse made the old 7 World Trade Center the first tall building known to have collapsed primarily due to uncontrolled fires,[7] and at the time, the only steel skyscraper in the world to have collapsed due to fire.[8]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center
Check the citations. I don't think engineers are mystified.
2
Hi Sharon,
I was there at when WTC collapsed.
Here is the scene from my point of view. There were about 150 fireman, rescue workers and civilians on two sides of a street. . Emotionally distraught fireman were actively willing to go into the building. It took a major effort to prevent them from rushing into building. From the street the fire in the building was not dramatic. Fires were visible on were upper floor. Around 5:00 PM NYFD supervisors in white helmets started broadcasting through megaphones “ Get back ,Get Back the building in going to comedown!”
Nobody really panic. Quietly this massive skyscraper starts to fold into itself. The building debris stayed within the pancaking structure. There was no screaming, not that much panicked fleeing and afterwards people just shrugged.
Somehow civil engineers blew the call. Why did WTC 7 implode? The NYFD were asked to shut off the water in the fire suppression system to prevent flooding to the subway. They did shut off the water. That is a fact.
NYFD might deny it.
2
@Danny Seaman
Thank you for adding this information, giving your witness account. I don't know what could have been done at the time, if anything, to prevent the collapse.
My comment was based in part on my memories about talking about this with my father, who was an engineer, who had read articles like the ones I cited.
We had both heard conspiracy theories that arose after 9/11 about it being "an inside job." Neither of us believed them.
I think structural engineers have learned and have much more to say now -- both about how to build buildings like these -- and how to protect them against a range of threats, natural and man-made.
Someday, I hope we'll learn how to prevent terrorism, war, and other forms of violence.
Again, thank you for your witness and your comment, here.
1
Very little of the narrative we’ve been sold regarding the 9/11 crimes passes the smell test. I encourage any and all to go back and critically consider the unfolding events of that day and really think.
How likely is it that a group of minimally trained Saudi pilots could execute the maneuvers necessary to precisely line up two jumbo jets with the WTC buildings?
Why did two towers that were actually designed and built to withstand a direct hit by an airplane destroyed? How is it possible that both collapsed as though they were being professionally demolished? Why did the subsequent fires burn for months, when jet fuel wouldn’t burn more than a day?
Why did WTC Building 7 collapse in precisely the same way when it wasn’t struck by an airplane and as far as we know only had a relatively small explosion in its lobby?
How is it possible that the finest Air Force in the world wasn’t able to respond, even though they were conducting training maneuvers that day? I doubt even then that training would be that much of a distraction.
There are many more things I could list, but just look at those. For me, the beginning came in 2006 or so when I gave my mind permission to “go there”. That was a big hurdle. Many books and articles have been published, I encourage others to check them out.
I think we’re still a long way from learning the truth behind the 9/11 attacks, and it may never be known. But once you open your eyes, you will see how badly misled we all were.
20
You're right--there's much more, but the 1500 character comment limit is insufficient to list all of the implausible coincidences related to 9/11. With that said, why are we spending ~$700 billion annually on defense when it only takes 19 amateur pilots with box cutters to bring a superpower to its knees for two decades?
6
Thank you for writing this article. I feel this information is very important.
But while I’m still reading the article, so may be mistaken, but I see no mention of FBI agents Ali Soufan or John O’Neill, who came very close to discovering the planned attacks before 9/11, Why is that?
O’Neill was removed from the FBI, so he became security director for the World Trade Center soon before the attacks, and he was killed in the Towers on 9/11.
17
@JPD Terrific point, JPD. I know Tim Golden is well aware of the details behind the late, great John O'Neill's incredible service to his country, as the article covered different, though related, issues. But, alas, John did not know about Khalid al-Mihdar and Nawaf al-Hazmi as he perished before we (Ali and I) were informed of their tracking on 9/12. Yes, not until the early morning of 9/12. Prior to that, and a profound however, we had access to and interrogated in Yemen an AQ guy who met with one of the 9/11 Five and those two (and likely Nawaf's brother Salim, also an eventual hijacjer) in SE Asia, c. Jan 2000. Tragically, we were never informed about their meeting in SE Asia, when we had access to the AQ guy for months in January 2001. You can't effectively interrogate about what you don't know happened.
@Robert McFadden
Thank you for thoughtful and learned reply. I hope that Mr. Soufan and his team will be listened to, when they foresee future dangers.
Best regards
1
@Robert McFadden
Thank you for thoughtful and learned reply. I hope that Mr. Soufan, you and others will be listened to, when you foresee future dangers.
Thank you also for all your hard work and service.
Best regards
If you read this article assuming that a few high ups in the FBI, CIA, and the Saudi government we’re coconspirators in the 9/11 attacks, it all makes sense.
8
Six months before 9/11 when I was in my second year of graduate school the late former Senator Warren Rudman, a moderate Republican from NH who was at the time the chairman of the Intelligence Oversight Board, participated in a symposium at my university.
He was the keynote speaker. He gave a lecture based on a report that he had prepared for GW Bush. Its topic was the U.S.'s vulnerability to a terrorist attack - and Senator Rudman explicitly stated in his talk that the Intelligence Oversight Board had determined that the U.S. had well over 50,000 ports of entry that were unprotected and that unless we did something to shore up these points of entry we would likely experience a terrorist attack. He further said (at a breakfast that I attended with my advisor and about a dozen other people) that he and others on the Intelligence Oversight Board had been trying to impart the seriousness of this to the Bush administration but that they wouldn't listen. But he felt sure that we would be attacked.
At the time I didn't take it seriously either - I thought it was just "typical Republican apocalyptic gloom and doom" (as I described to a friend when he asked me how the breakfast went). Six months later on 9/11, one of my first coherent thoughts was that Senator Rudman had been right.
I don't know why Bush & Cheney and their administration ignored the Rudman Intelligence Oversight report and its dire warnings but it is something that has always haunted me.
13
@Pamela -- I remember why. Dubya had a huge brush problem at his dusty Texas "ranch" that required an entire month each year to clear.
1
What we experience looks like an elaborate plot to discredit democratical institutions.
Populists now hold reigns of power in large democracies, using deregulation to redraw the boundaries of legislation.
And these investigative agents, while thinking their Don Quixote adventure will reveal some smoking gun, are in fact providing fuel to this bonfire of propaganda that results in an overall erosion of public confidence in elected governments, and its institutions, preferring to idolize celebrities instead.
And monarchs come in handy to promote stability over these frail democracies.
Branding is everything when your economy is based on consumerism.
2
Nineteen years on, it is pretty clear that former and current U.S. Government officials simply do not trust the American people with the truth about the planning and execution of the 9/11 attacks.
Why is that?
11
Glad to see but much of this has been reported already--form example my 2011 Salon post: https://www.salon.com/2011/10/14/insiders_voice_doubts_cia_911/
2
U.S. toppling Wahhabi poisoning Saudi regime still a worthwhile option.
4
Former Senator Graham of Florida detailed the steps Robert Mueller took to hinder any meaningful investigation of the Saudi connection. Our government is willing to protect the murderers of United States citizens. Frightening.
9
The Saudi leadership are a bunch with nefarious intentions. Why we deal with them in any way, shape or form is besides me.
I always felt that a key pillar of US foreign policy should be to eliminate the import of any Saudi oil along with ever increasing our use of renewable energy sources.
We should rid ourselves of this beast and tell the Saudi’s when it comes to dealing the Shia they are on their own.
The sooner we leave, the better.
11
Bush and Cheney, and the Bush family, knew about the plot in advance and let it happen, or actively plotted with the Saudis. The first is complicit criminal negligence, the second is treason; either way, so they could get their war for oil. Really nothing new for Republicans. (Nixon undermining Vietnam War negotiations; Reagan and Bush I Iran-Contra). Just read the PNAC report. And the report given Rice and Bush "Bin Laden to Attack America”. They were all in on it up to their lying eyeballs. Always thought that deer in the headlight look that Bush gave when he was told was something like "Hey Cheney never told me that would really HIT the buildings.) As Sunderland said about Trump "They were all in the loop." The Bush family in particular are among the most corrupt and treasonous people in American history.
5
One key word here: Wahhabism
The Saudi royal family has a long though veiled relationship with the movement. So it is completely reasonable to assume that at least some members of the Saudi royal family (which numbers reported are ~15,000 family members) were covert supporters of Wahhabisim and any extremists that were willing to take up violence to promote it's doctrines.
Of course an authoritarian ruling family with wealth and power would quash any such connections to 9/11.
2
I was struck by the fact that had America never allowed any Soudis to emigrate here in the first place this could never have happened. America must be financially reliant on SA for them to have this much influence over our country.
My thanks to Mr. Gonzales for his dedicated investigatory work.
It reminds us again of the disgraceful complicity of the Bush/Cheney cover-up that started immediately after the attacks: "Top White House officials personally approved the evacuation of dozens of influential Saudis, including relatives of Osama bin Laden, from the United States in the days after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks when most flights were still grounded, a former White House adviser said today." https://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/04/us/white-house-approved-departure-of-saudis-after-sept-11-ex-aide-says.html.
In light of how thoroughly the FBI interrogated any other potential witness, putting any Saudi on a plane home within days of 9/11 can only mean someone already knew of their substantial complicity in the attacks.
8
This article barely scratches the surface on all of the ways the DOJ, FBI, all three administrations since 9/11, and the media have covered up the Saudi role in the attacks. Why is it acceptable to everyone that after 18 years, the finest law enforcement agency in the world has not been able to tell us who paid for 9/11?
11
Buried deep in the story:
“The two men [who helped the hijackers upon arriving in LA] asked not to be identified out of concern for their safety and that of their families.)”
Excuse me, WHAT? Since when does the NYTimes withhold the names of individuals linked to criminal activity — especially a crime like 9/11?!
4
“Never think it was a mistake that there are more Jihadists in the Middle East than Communists.”
1
The House of Saud was deeply involved with 9/11. Cheney hired them to do the job! Come on people, we all know it's true. The Cheney/Bush administration brought down the towers, and every president since Nixon has kissed the Saudi ring. Disgusting. The House of Saud is a criminal organization; immoral, brutal, greedy. They should be shunned by the whole world.
7
Wait, I thought the Saudis are our allies? Aren't the Iranians the bad guys?
After all, weren't all the 9/11 hijackers Iranian? Wasn't it an Iranian pilot that shot up Naval Air Station Pensacola? Didn't we just throw out twelve Iranians enrolled in DoD training programs because they are jihadists?
Or were those all Saudis? I forget.
With an ally like this...
5
Iran has never hidden their hatred of the U.S. No wolves in sheep’s clothing over there.
Saudi? Yuh think?
Our justice system is so convoluted that the neither the CIA nor the FBI shared their knowledge prior to the attacks of 9/11. Or, maybe they just didn’t want to.
I admit, I’m simple. Not as educated as the next Jane, but the one test I do pass is about a duck. “If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it is probably a duck.”
3
This investigation should be reminding us that after the attacks on that day only military jets flew our skies and those belonging to the Saudi royal family and the bin Laden corporation; the Saudis and bin Ladens were spirited out of the country at the directive of W’s WH since Mohammed bin Laden had breakfasted with George senior in Houston. Instead of questioning these major figures in Saudi ventures they were escorted to safety at home; what’s worse, Osama’s brother, landing in Riyadh after flying from Boston, praised the attack. Whether or not the royals were involved our foolish feckless behavior out of Bush loyalties raised suspicions that have never been resolved. And as things stand with Trump even dismemberment doesn’t budge our policy so why should MBS, of all despots, give a damn.
9
I got about halfway through this and thought, "Do I really need to know all these details about something that was obvious to me within 24 hours of 9/11?"
Of course the Saudis were complicit.
15 out of 19 hijackers were Saudis, and somehow the Saudi royal family was blissfully unaware that one of the most brilliantly-orchestrated terrorist attacks in history was being planned?
And, of course, "people at the highest level" of the US government made sure that the facts were suppressed, and that they continue to be suppressed to this day.
(And no, I'm not a "9/11 Truther" who thinks the US government was behind the plot.)
So, reading this article is a bit like reading a long, scholarly investigative piece revealing -- at long last! -- that cigarettes cause cancer, or that Donald Trump is a criminal and a moron.
These things have been obvious for quite some time.
The only interesting question is whether the corrupt politicians and their enablers who protected the Saudis will ever be held to account.
Last I heard, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, Condi Rice, and the rest of the gang are still at large, and in fact are living rather large.
Meanwhile, the masters of Jamal Khashoggi's bone-sawers are pals of our current POTUS, who had a fine old time doing the sword dance when he visited them.
It would make a person retch, if they were naive enough not to know that this is just the way things are.
18
The Saudis forceful spread of their puritanical & often violent form of Wahhabi Islam.. is reason enough to see some Saudi responsibility for terrorist attacks of its citizens..
2
The Western mind cannot begin to grasp the Islamic jihad culture that the world is dealing with. The FBI and CIA are obviously compromised, infested with traitors. "They are never to be believed or trusted." This statement is applicable to Islamists and American government agencies like the FBI, CIA, NSA, etc.
The Saudi's will never be true allies which can be trusted. There are several forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, the best known being taqiyya (the Shia name). These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause of Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them. This is evident with America's Democrat party aligning themselves with Islamists, which they will regret and deny in the future. They are like sheep being lead to slaughter. https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/taqiyya.aspx
@TEXAS INFIDEL wow I guess the current administration, which happens to be ummm....Republican....can be excused for being staunch friends with the Saudis, doing the sword dance and all? Not holding the Saudi Prince responsible for murdering a journalist? I guess we just have to blame only the Democrats. All Republicans, like Bush/Cheney must be excused. Sorry, it's not that simple.
For much more in-depth reporting on the Saudi connection please check out Florida Bulldog's 9/11 stories. https://www.floridabulldog.org/911-articles/
7
@Dan Christensen Highly recommended for the the most thorough and detailed reporting on the Saudi 9/11 connection out there
this rattlesnake is my best friend...
2
9/11 was perpetrated by Saudi Arabians with the assistance and help of Americans. The same underbelly of America that perpetrated MLKs, RFKs, and JFKs murders was at it again during 9/11!!!
Social Changes in America do not happen in a vacuum. The 1960s scarred the bejesus out of many in America because "those" people (people of color especially the Black Panthers, hippies, and fresh faced young Americans) wanted changes to the social/economic/military/political structures and those in charge of those areas in America FREAKED OUT. God forbid those white men in power positions would lose control and have to share the American Pie with others.
A big reason for 9/11 was further social control by expanding "spying" on all Americans (regardless of their views/policies) to ensure a better control of Americans.
Saudi Arabia was only too happy to assist America in killing all those who died as a result of 9/11.
4
Jj hi no mik
Jn
Where the Saudi connection stands today — quoting Frank Rich: "Keep an eye on where Trump or his son-in-law fit into the chain that connects the hacking of Jeff Bezos’ phone by the Saudis to the murder of Jamal Khashoggi by Mohammad bin Salman’s minions to the role played by one of Trump’s house organs, his pal David Pecker’s National Enquirer, in the Bezos blackmail scheme."
5
"Gonzalez, a tough, affable Texan..."
I saw his picture. Is he LBJ's love child?
I want to wish Mr. Gonzalez a great retirement and extend my gratitude for his work. Live long Mr. Gonzalez!
6
I appreciate the extensive details offered, but a summary of key names and who has ties to whom would have been very very helpful. I lost track about half-way. This investigation is important but I suspect the Saudi's have covered up whatever they needed to -- by whatever means needed.
5
"Three presidential administrations have built a wall of secrecy around information about possible Saudi government ties to the attacks."
Walls are built to keep information from getting out.
I don't think we will ever know the full scope or involvement of the Saudi connections relating to the 9/11 attacks.
While Saudi Arabia may not be an enemy to this country, they certainly fall far short from being our friend.
It seems as if governments of Saudi Arabia and the US use one another for their own purposes and gain, not because they like and trust each other.
6
Operatives necessarily don't know all the details of the plan, they are tasked with following directions. Help this guy, do this for this guy, let me know when information is available, do this particular task on this day. Don't ask any more questions. The CIA and FBI know this is the way operations work. But this also places a huge burden on proving conspiracies. Only a few people in Saudi Arabia know the plot and its goals and they are hidden by their government. This burden also allows deniability and obstruction by some officials in the US and frustrated acceptance by others.
13
The Saudi Arabian rulers are certainly our friends as we all know. They want to buy arms from us to protect themselves and as many have pointed out, the Saudis will fight the Iranians down to the last American soldier.
As 9/11 shows, their citizenry may not be our friends. Could be that they don't like our support of their rulers.
Contrast this to Iran, where for sure the rulers dislike the US. Until recently, most Iranians on the street were very friendly to the US. Most are well educated and see themselves outside of a religious affiliation.
43
@Hugh G
I have rarely read a post that is so deeply wrong in every way. Please stop watching FOX. You have been thoroughly brainwashed.
6
@Hugh G
You have been put to sleep big time. Have a nice snooze. Our friends?
6
The Saudis are not U.S.'s friends (and the reverse is true as well), never have been. They both only have 'interests'. But Saudi's contribution to the 9/11 attack is evident, as the majority of the terrorists did stem from Saudi Arabia. All this, even before we look at Trump's complicity in protecting assassin prince Salman, the intellectual author of Khashoggi's dismembership, just because this courageous journalist had the 'gall' to criticize Saudi's abusive dictatorship.
242
No Iranians or Yemenis participated in 9/11 attacks or any other terrorist attack on US soil, yet, they are on Trump’s travel ban. In constraint, Saudi subjects have committed terrorist attack on Americans inside the USA, Kenya, and Yemen, yet, Trump allows them to travel to the US. This is one reason the travel ban has nothing to do with terrorism, but, with military weapons sales and to protect the fossil fuel industry.
33
@Mpound
If you want to know why within 2 days of 9/11 the US allowed many high level foreigners to go home and escape oversight, read the “Looming Tower” by Lawrence Wright. Which was adapted into a TV series on Amazon. It’s pretty well documented and the gist of it is that nothing would be allowed to interfere in the relationship between the US and KSA. Not even that
38
Trump loved the Saudis' glowing orb. Enough said!
34
@Wang An Shih It started with W, and continued with Obama.
2
“There's something happening here
What it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware
I think it's time we stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down”
Buffalo Springfield
1967
34
The article didn’t mention the anthrax attack the week after 9/11, letters laced with the deadly product were sent to politicians or journalists critical of the administration. The manufacturing trail of the deadly agent lead to FORT DETRICK which i think is not in SAUDI ARABIA.
8
It is telling that the US Govt is still in the business of not looking very hard at Saudi ties to 9/11. In fact this month VP Pence announced that Iran had helped the hijackers (not true).
The stink around this coverup has eroded our trust in our government in a way that is hard to appreciate. Even has a since that the fix is in.
At least Trump was sort of honest enough to say that we can't blame the Saudi's for serious crimes when they are such a good customer of ours (in relation to Khassoghi murder). That's about as close to the truth we are going to get.
Kudos to the Times for the deep dive into the FBI's continued work on this subject, and to the continuing efforts to cover up Saudi links to 9/11.
76
This event will shape future narrative from different angles for years to come
Was there a concerted effort to ignore the warnings?
Were foreigners foreign power and the insiders busy distracting the intelligence agencies ?
Was the timing of the event known to some to a tee ?
Was the event expected and was it immediately turned into something to achieve a desired goal or goals?
Manhattan project despite having 50,000 or more involved in various capacities were known only few at the top , not more than possibly 10 people . The suppliers did not know what he was supplying for. The janitor did not know what he was guarding and what for.
911 one day might turned out to be similar project where some low lying fruits got hung out to dry out in the open.
9
Why aren't the fbi investigating why the cia allowed the terrorists to enter the u.s. in the first place and then train how to fly planes into wtc. This surely is the bigger story.
28
@Bis K , I agree, but it is not the job of the FBI or CIA to vet visa applicants. It is US consulates in each country that decide who gets a visa to visit the US. It is the immigration bureaucracy that is supposed to monitor the foreign nationals that are allowed to come in. So, where was INS --now ICE-- when these Saudi "students" applied for their student visas? One of them finally got his student visa approved after he flew a plane into one of the 9/11 targets. And now ICE spends all its time stealing children from their parents at the Mexico-Texas border. Not to mention sifting old immigration records looking for anyone with a green card who got caught breaking a window when they were 17 years old, and deporting them. Great use of of taxpayers money, really keeping us safe and making America great.
3
Yep, Iran is totally to blame. Time to beat those war drums boys!
/s
6
“They didn’t want to give the Saudis a black eye by letting these guys walk into a trap”
Just disgusting. If the Saudis want something on an American, any American, they just send him a Whats video of some shiekhs doing a sword dance that's infected with malware.
If a Saudi runs down a civilian in his Corvette, doing 80 mph on a commercial shopping street, the Saudi consulate buys him out of jail and ships him home, never to be seen again.
The biggest disgrace of all is that the Democrats are too weak to use this against Trump.
14
@Eric Lol THATS the "biggest disgrace"? Lol wow
@Eric
I what way are Democrats weak? Could it be that as long as the GOP controls 34 seats in the Senate, nothing can be done about Trump? Or do you think Democrats just don’t care? The article notes that the Obama DoJ continued to stonewall the investigation, probably to avoid having to do something militarily in the KSA.
@hunternomore
The disgrace is that the Republicans and the plutocrats they serve are never held to account because the Dems fail to do so, often enough because they are complicit in many of the most disgraceful actions.
I was totally against the War in Iraq, because it was obvious they had nothing to do with 9/11. I wanted us to attack Saudi Arabia.
49
Do you want to know the truth about these kind of events?
You have to wait for at least a few generations and, may be, the truth supported by partially censored documents would finally surface.
By then, for you and me, it would have no relevance.
14
"“The F.B.I. expects to continue the investigation over the long term,” he wrote. The bureau’s goal, McGarrity added, would be to bring “criminal charges against all individuals responsible for the attacks.”
And who believes that? The Saudis own our government and play ignorant people like Jared Kushner to get what they want.
36
@Jacquie You cite the final paragraph, but in that this line stuck out at me: "The day after the families’ White House visit, Justice Department lawyers filed documents in support of Attorney General Barr’s claim of state secrets. "
What this interesting report really highlights is how the "deep state" keeps "state secrets" secret.
This story is only the tip of a secret iceberg. Who gave Bob Mueller, then Director of the FBI, the order to treat the 9/11 events as a "terrorist" plot and not as a domestic crime scene? As a terrorist plot, claims of "state secrets" were made, and normal forensic crime study practices were thrown out the window; and this led to a quick clean up of the site: a cover up (hmm; where have I heard that term recently).
4
The most recent "puff piece" on Muellers FBI cover up after 9/11.While the FBI was secretly training for an airline high jacking during August before 9/11 ,a few of the highjackers bought a few boxes of new box cutters in rural MD at a Wallmart. They were noticed in the Capital near the fence surrounding the White house.Israeli secret service based in Virginia noticed nearly all the terrorists movements in the states from CA to Las Vegas to Virginia because they were on the Israelis no fly list and could have never entered Israel by any means.The entire lining up of the points is totally a hoax because the information was being disseminated as it was getting collected ,from the flight school on down the line almost as agency was allowing them to get on the planes un noticed.
9
The Bush's were (and still are) a rich oil family. They were hand holding friends of the Saudi's. So it seems it was their deep dependence on Saudi oil that caused Bush to prevent undiscovering the Saudi's were 100% behind 9/11.
26
@Vickie Jones Which doesnt explain why both Obama and Trump have behaved the same way
1
Saudis shorted airline stocks day before the attack made billions. Of course they were involved and we were in bed with them.
8
@Dave Do you have evidence of this? Which Saudis?
3
@Dave Do you have evidence of this? Which Saudis? At least one site says this is false:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/put-paid/
@Doctor The Saudis who committed the crime, and the Saudis who backed them, namely the "royal" family.
Wake up.
2
Does anyone doubt, other than Trump and Barr and their accomplices, that the Saudis were knee-deep if not deeper involved in 9/11? Problem is, Trump has been living his debauched lifestyle from Saudi & Russian loans for decades! In order for that to remain hidden, he can hardly criticize either of them and has to dance to their combined tunes!
27
@Walking Fan Yup.
Donald Trump has made Russia, historically one of this country’s greatest adversaries, and Saudi Arabia our new best friends.
High crimes and misdemeanors, anyone?
22
@blondiegoodlooks
Saudi Arabia has been a close friend of US presidents for decades.
Maybe, since you have no idea what you're talking about, you could refrain from posting until you are better informed.
3
A failure of courage at the highest levels of the US government. Realpolitik. Real disgusting.
11
@Tomás It wasn't failure of courage to "do the right thing," it is the paradigm of audacity to conceal a horrible plot.
1
I bet you that Mossad, or the KGB/GRU could fill in a lot of the blanks that are still left open. I wonder what they could tell us? Mossad like the GRU/KGB are very skilled at their craft. They will do violence. Just ask Putin, he was the head of the KGB. He should know.
10
It has also never been adequately explained by our government why members of Osama bin Laden's family in the US were quickly flown out of the country with no questions asked while commercial aviation was grounded for several days following 9/11 attacks. Exactly why did that happen and what was the rush to get them overseas?
81
@mpound I've never heard that. How do you know they were flown out of the country?
@bronwen Is the bin Laden family being confused with the royal family?
I would be very surprised if the authors are familiar with Christopher Ketcham's March 7, 2007 CounterPunch article (published there instead of in the more reputable Salon or The Nation after last minute decisions) or Gerald Shea's Memo to the 9-11 Commission, summarized in Ketcham's article.
Ketcham is an independent journalist with a reputation for checking his facts while Shea, a lawyer, was so diligent with details that the Commission had ended by the time he sent it to them.
The Memo compares public FBI reports of the hijackers' movements with the locations of those from another politically sensitive country, many with backgrounds in intelligence, per a leaked DEA report.
Ketcham's article focused on another FBI investigation that, apparently, went nowhere.
The pieces revealed were and remain tantalizing, but no ordinary citizen is ever likely to know with any certainty what the larger picture they are part of is all about, although it's possible that future historians, prowling through archives of declassified documents, will write books on the topic, long after those directly involved are dead.
7
15 out of 19 hi-hackers were from the KSA. That’s all you need to know.
We’re in bed with the Saudis, plain and simple.
Furthermore, the more we integrate religious morals into our political ethics, the more we move towards a society makes laws/policy based on dictatorial wills and not altruistic needs, which is what the KSA is doing right now.
47
So Bush Sr. loses reelection in 1992 and settles into a cushy job working as the Military-Industrial Complex member the Carlyle Group’s ambassador to Saudi Arabia. A Saudi terrorist group attacks a US ship weeks before the 2000 presidential election, giving a boost to the Republican candidate, Bush, Jr. Bush loses anyway, but is installed by five Republicans on the Supreme Court who nullify the election laws of Florida and reject the will of the American people. Bush willfully ignores Clinton administration’s and his own intelligence agencies’ warning of an imminent attack by Qaeda on American soil, goes on vacation and allows 9-11 to happen. Bush then refuses to punish Saudi Arabia for its role in indoctrinating and monetarily supporting the 9-11 terrorists, even allowing Saudis to fly out of the country despite a ban on flying in the immediate aftermath. Then come the endless war in Afghanistan and the fake intel leading to the invasion of Iraq, and lots of weapons sales to Saudi Arabia, all very lucrative for the MIC. It doesn’t take a special facility in pattern recognition to see a treasonous triangle connecting Saudi Arabia, the Republican Party and the Military Industrial Complex.
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@Renee Margolin What an imagination!!!
1
@Renee Margolin Tight summary! My take away from this report is that it names names of FBI insiders who shut down an investigation by taking control from the regional office.
It also shows how the "terrorist" prosecutor in SDNY shut down further investigation.
God Bless the Families of 9/11 Victims for trying to get the truth and justice; but they also need to understand what they are up against.
I can't imagine that they don't believe there isn't such a thing as a "deep state," because that is what this story reveals.
12
@Renee Margolin Nailed it.
6
True lunacy. We know the Saudis are up to their eyebrows in their involvement in 9/11, and then we attack a country having nothing to do with it. Then WMD, which turned out false.
Suddenly I feel less secure.
15
I read the 9/11 Commission report a decade ago. The FBI had significant field-level leads that were quashed at a high-level, and as NYT reporting notes, they were also were misled by the CIA. NSA had relevant intercepts but not the translators and analysts to respond in time. State let many Saudis into the US on visas without interviews after political pressure- both domestic and Saudi, and INS gave a hijacker a visa renewal even after being verbally abused by an angry plot leader M. Atta. Many questions still remain about the Bush-Cheney relationship with the Saudis, and who knew what when. Bush and Cheney reportedly decided to go to war again Saddam Hussein if they had a provocation even before they were elected. Bush refused to cooperate with the 9/11 Commission. He didn't seem very inquisitive after being informed of the first attack while reading to children at a school, but resumed reading- that unforgettable reaction. He had a long history of receiving financial support from Saudis and Emeratis as a civilian. He gave Saudis special treatment after 9/11. And a Saudi prince reportedly died "of thirst" after 9/11. There's been so much disinformation, but follow the money- who profited, who got what they wanted? I also couldn't find an unedited version of the entire Bush reaction. There sure have been a lot of attempts to rehab W.'s image lately too.
https://www.wfla.com/news/sarasota-county/watch-bush-learned-of-9-11-attacks-during-visit-to-sarasota-school/
26
@Fran Cisco
"Many questions still remain about the Bush-Cheney relationship with the Saudis..."
And they all have the same answer: oil and money.
6
@Fran Cisco
Yeah, I remember that too.
He just sat there reading when informed that "the country was under attack".
And Rumsfeld was outside of the Pentagon running around like a chicken that had lost its head.
Wasn't Cheney in the WH bunker?
And now we have Trump who claims "witch hunt", "hoax", or any excuse that comes to mind when the evidence is overwhelming that he's a stooge.
If this is the government that we're going to get when money is in charge, then we're finished.
4
The cause of 911 was the failure of the Bush Administration. George Bush was too busy playing at being Presidential and Condoleezza Rice was too busy ignoring everyone who was giving her any advice. She even ignored a Memo stating “Bin Laden to Attack America”. When confronted by idea of flying Airlines into buildings, she remarked “Who would ever have believed that?” Even though such a threat had been avoided during the last years or the Clinton Administration.
16
Anything and anybody associated with the Bushes era including this investigation is a debacle of sorts. And suspect. All these characters ranging from Comey to Mueller to unknown apparatchiks presiding over our incompetent dealings with China and upheavals of globalization to the neocons who led us to Iraq and than disbanded the Iraqi army have an aura of arrogant incompetence as a culture. From conservative viewpoint same applies to their inability to win partisan fights with the left and the media on the domestic front or to judicial appointments who turn out to be solid liberals.
I believe that Trump’s takeover over the Republican Party has to do more with this “end of the Ottoman Empire” rot than with any other dynamic.
Obama inherited this status quo of failure but ignoring China and the fiascos such as Libya kept him on the same course. And hence Trump once again. And why not? Look at this story. Our institutions could not prevent the attack regardless of getting reports of middle eastern odd looking man taking flight lessons and making comments about not being interested in aircraft landing training, than they could not investigate it properly, left off the hook the suspect country while attacking a nonparticipating one, and now cannot even hang the perpetrators so we are releasing them to reoffend or keeping them in increasingly luxurious settings in Cuba to propagandize against us. Trump maybe just the first step in revolts to come.
4
When will the coverup end?
9
@No name — Which one? You gotta be specific nowadays. Bone Saws and Passports come out of thin air where the truth is negotiable.
Don’t forget what George Santayana said: “History is a pack of lies about events that never happened told by people who weren’t there.”
2
@No name
Never it seems. Same old cycle, money, power, greed, corruption. Thoughts and prayers for all of us.
2
If you were going to spend 10 years investigating SA, the time would have been better spent exposing the flow of money from the regime to the madrassas that are the incubators of jihadist terrorists. Always, always, always follow the money. Even if these investigators were able to turn wisps of smoke into fires for a few individuals, it wouldn’t have changes our policy. - 9/11 1 WTC survivor.
10
These two facts are spaced out in the article but they belong together: Right before he met the two hijackers "by chance, after hearing them speaking gulf-accented Arabic in a small halal cafe in Culver City, Calif," Bayoumi "stopped at the Saudi consulate."
13
Saudi Arabia used to be a puppet of US government in the past. Yet the roles have reversed over times through heavy lobbying and now US government is, to some degree, a puppet of its middle eastern allies.
20
A meticulously detailed reporting from ProPublica and the Times again suggesting as others have done that our national betrayal lies at the feet of highest levels of our government. It is absolutely indefensible that we still do not have an honest accounting of the role of the Saudis and the cover-up by George W. Bush and his administration to help reach some kind of closure for the murder of 3000 innocents.
34
Thank you for bringing this detailed review. I like many others still remember where I was when I saw the towers get hit on TV and the horror and pain that we experienced. I still have a gut wrenching feeling and tears in my eyes when I relive that moment, I cannot even imagine what goes through the minds of the people directly affected. On the one hand, we have young african americans being put behind bars for petty crimes in this country and on the other hand we have the country's administration, the intelligence involved in what appears to be a large cover up at the highest level into the investigation of the murder of more than 3000 innocent people in this country....when several clues point to Saudi Arabia its sickening that despite all the best resources the US has, the Saudis cannot be charged. Its abhorrent that the Saudi govt continues to commit grave crimes including the torturous murder of an American journalist, and the US looks the other way. Its not a matter of inability to do so but an intentional cover up on a large scale such that even the institutions we hold to high standards such as the FBI is not spared...
161
The people of the United States should have access to all information that has to do with our government making decisions. And not let a institution decide what information will be released or not. How are we supposed to truly trust OUR government and hold OUR government responsible without any information.
8
Oil, oil, oil, big money, big money, big money we have a congress and executive owned by big monied interests. These interests exert their massive influence on our law makers through the American Legislative Exchange Council, A.L.E.C. We will not be safe, we will not be healthy, we will not be a functional democratic republic until our elections are publicly funded only.
8
Refer to Craig Unger's "House of Bush, House of Saud" for history of Saudi financing of terror and use of terror for political gain. Refer to "Ghost Wars" by Steve Coll on the close ties of some in US government to KSA going back to its creation and energy companies' planning for new profits after collapse of Soviet Union. Also, look into Stratesec, a Bush family-owned security company with contracts on World Trade Center, Dulles and United in years leading up to 9/11. Perhaps most telling is the Project for a New American Century, which outlined neoconservative goals before 9/11 that unfolded as if by magic coincidence.
19
The real questions is how could Saudia Arabia not be involved (at least indirectly). The bin Laden family was one of the wealthiest in Saudi Arabia; that is, outside the "inner sanctum" of a plethora of royal figures, like the King, Queen and princes.
7
Our government lie to us? *gasp* Whatever could lead any American citizen to conclude they would ever lie considering the GOP is currently engaged in attempting to coverup every lie told by Trump since day one?
17
There ought to be a disclaimer at the end of this article stating that no Bankers, Industrialists or animals were injured during this investigation. Past suffering does lead to future profits—however.
4
Trulky. People don't want to know what is truly happening. If they did, they would never sleep. They want to "feel safe". The truth is something completely different; also a rarity, indeed.
8
@Easy Goer Completely different indeed. We are still waiting to know who brought down building 7, the 44 story skyscraper at 5:20:33 pm EDT on September 11, 2001. No terrorists involved here, so ......?
6
Well researched piece, Tim and Sebastian! Reads like spy novel; unfortunately it is true. The cover ups in our government's history is staggering.
16
It is a fact..the Bush Administration at the highest levels of government allow all the Ben Laden extended families to leave the US only a day or two after 9/11.
That said, there is no doubt, at least in my mind that SA assisted in financing directly or indirectly the planning for attacking the US.
The Saudi's are no friend of the United States, then, now or in the future.
76
@RH The Bin Laden family escape story is a hoax. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/flights-of-fancy/
1
It always astounds me how the country who organized and rejoiced in the 9/11 attacked is a close Middle Eastern ally while the country leading the fight against ISIS (Iran) is our greatest enemy.
425
@Ben
It is all about money. Although Iran has been more than aggressive toward their neighbors they have never gone outside of the Middle East.
17
@Vail About keeping our Oil there safe from the natives.
3
Working for a linguistics company that did large translation jobs for the government in the aftermath of 9/11, I had access to large amounts of raw materials related directly to several of the attackers that was collected by a foreign government. There were basically no controls on the information, though I wasn't stupid enough to try and keep any of it. All I can say is, there is a lot that people don't know.
Also, always remember that in the 1990's, Republicans made fun of Bill Clinton for his obsession with Osama bin Laden, and fought him tooth and nail in Congress for anti-terrorism funding. I'm convinced that if Al Gore had won, there would not have been a 9/11. Remember, the Clinton administration did everything they could to convince the Bush transition team that terrorism and al Qaeda specifically was our nation's biggest threat in late 2000, and the Bush team completely ignored them.
Remember that Condoleeza Rice was to give a speech on 9/11 stating that ballistic missiles from rogue post-Soviet states was the biggest threat to American national security. And the Bush administration never even responded to the attack on the USS Cole in October 2000. The Clinton administration drew up battle plans, but left the decision to the incoming Bush team, not wanting to hamstring the new president in a military conflict the way W's father had done to him in Somalia.
So basically, Ralph Nader caused 9/11.
167
Ralph Nader? Come on. Blame the real culprit. Justice Anthony Kennedy, author of the majority of the per curiam decision in Bush v. Gore.
Or the highly conflicted Justices Scalia (whose son worked with Ted Olson) and Clarence Thomas (with relatives on the Bush transition team).
Even with Ralph Nader, it's not clear Bush won more votes in Florida, and thus more electoral votes, than Gore. And thanks to a corrupt and partisan Supreme Court, it never will be. But unofficial reconstructions of the vote that account for irregularities like the un-rejection of late overseas ballots put Gore ahead.
imagine the world we'd live in. air travel wouldn't be horrible. Secret and extensive government surveillance would be seen as a feature of North Korea, not free countries. no USA patriot act, not trillions of dollars in wasted military spending, no hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians or thousands of American and coalition service members dead (and many more injured physically and emotionally). no Bush tax cuts, no stupid deregulation leading into wall street greed and the great recession. Continued prosperity from Clinton-era economic common sense.
and above all, actual attention to climate change when there was still a chance to address it. instead of eight years under the thumb of literal oil executives in transition (and in thrall to the Saudi monarchy as a result).
who knows, maybe some of the older liberal justices might even have retired in favor of someone <80.
66
@Undisclosed
Thank you for your insights. Recall that, though Nader split the anti-Bush vote contributing to Gore's loss in 2000, THE deciding factor was the dis-enfranchisement of thousands of Florida voters when the SCOTUS halted the re-count. Antonin "get over it" Scalia, a friend of the Bush family and their 1% cabal, manipulated his pal W. into the Presidency, forever compromising Americans' trust in the integrity of our elections. We have reaped directly what Scalia sowed - 9/11, McConnell, Trump - and this tragedy is far from over.
54
Nader didn’t prevent the vote count in FL. Jeb’s doctoring actually fits your thesis.
20
The US Government’s blanket use of the notion of “ National Security” - a phrase btw that is not even contained in the Constitution- to prevent the citizens of our country from learning the truth of the facts surrounding 9/11 subverts democracy. We are not at war- nor is any war imminent- with Saudi Arabia. The use of ‘national security’ as a rationale is wholly political: to protect the business and economic relationship between the King of Saudi Arabia (and his family) and the US Oil Companies (and their wholly owned and operated elected representatives in our government) from exposure. We spend billions of tax dollars for our intelligence agencies and when it really counts, when we really need to understand what happened ( e.g, JFK assassination, 9/11, Trump- Putin) we neuter them and hide behind the words “ national security”.
115
Saudi Arabia is not our ally, they just own many of our politicians.
442
The Saudi Arabia terrorist regime will do everything they can to greedily milk out the latest weapons systems from the US defense industry while backstabbing, betraying, and hurting Americans at every turn. Was Saudi Arabia a sponsor of 9/11? Yes, next question please.
100
We’ve covered up and ignored Saudi crimes and support for jihadists since they started buying our weapons systems. Nothing has changed.
97
Donald Trump lied to the families about releasing the documents?
Tell us it isn't so!
When has Donald Trump not lied?
144
@JPHEdmonds
just following the lead since HST
1
Where is the outrage? Where is the media? After murdering a journalist our president said” so what am I supposed to do, stop doing business with them”.
Sadly, it again points to the American people. Blame Trump, Obama, Bush and other “ leaders”. The fact is the American people are getting what they wasn’t; someday deserve.
8
Finally, a sliver of the truth.
44
I guess the American people can’t be told the truth. Makes you wonder.
29
And when they are told the truth, they blithely ignore it! Listen for a few minutes to the defense lawyers of Trump!
7
It’s our own governments that’s always lied to our faces, What happened to the plane that hit the pentagon and all the security footage ?
19
@Lee, a whole jumbo jet with inexperienced hijacker pilots flew low (10 ft?) over Washington without hitting the ground, into the side of the building, and there is no evidence of the jet's tail and wings?
It's a true muder mystery.
3
So few people even ask the question of how a plane could completely disappear, as we were told happened to Flight 93 in Shanksville, PA. What other plane crash can you find where there is just literally nothing left at the crash site? This just does not happen. The persistent lies and disinformation from our own government around 9-11 and the acceptance of these lies is truly mind boggling.
2
The FBI and CIA need to communicate and work together when it comes to national security threats. I understand the FBI is technically part of the executive branch and each organization likes to stay independent, but the fact that the FBI was not alerted by the CIA that known agents made a cross country move between very populated cities until weeks before the attack is baffling. They must have had their reasons but I can’t think of a single good one in light of the tragedy.
14
@JK, quite simple - ego & power
1
The entire affair points to major negligence on behalf of the Bush Administration. They simply failed the Nation, both leading up to the attacks, and following and responding to them. It is shocking how incompetent they were. Major ramifications will haunt the country for all time.
215
@Doug
they weren't incompetent Doug; they knew exactly what they were doing ("they" = Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice but not Bush) and the truth will probably not come out in our lifetimes. Nor will we find the whole truth about the JFK assassination.
16
Richard Clarke tried to warn incoming Bush administration about an imminent threat but Rice and the entire Bush 43 administration was refocusing efforts on Cold War efforts. Laughable given predator 45 love of Soviet KGBer Putin and how he will bury us.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/showsknew/
Watch this will blow your mind. John O’Neill pushed aside by FBI.
19
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/showsknew/
Frontline from 2002
Watch this
2
There are so many things we could have done differently to avoid 9/11, but to me, the least expensive and most effective way would have been:
Never letting anyone but airline personnel into the cockpit. No exceptions.
At least we’re doing that since 9/11. But the whole thing could have been avoided if that was always the rule.
20
No one “let” the highjackers into the cockpits. They used box cutters to kill the crew and forced their way in.
4
Of *course* the Saudi government knew about the 9/11 plot.
The real question is: why has the US government done nothing to protect us from our murderous, extremist, so-called ally?
258
I think you know why.
5
Ask Trump where his money comes from!
5
@Michael The US won't protect us because its all about the oil and gold. Nothing else matters in Washington.
11
the Saudi's have been hiding information for almost 2 decades, we've looked the other way because of geopolitical strategy challenges.
63
@Ron We have looked the other way as Big Oil told the federal government to look elsewhere.
2
It is very difficult to find out something when you have strong reasons to not get an answer that would create more problems than it solves.
Anyone who believes Saudi Arabia is our ally for any reasons beyond those which they believe to be in their best interests is less than informed about realpolitik.
79
I think that history will show that not only was the Saudi government responsible for the attacks of 9/11, but that the Bush government suspected as much and had an inkling that the attacks would occur. The Saudis hated and feared Saddam because of his invasion of Kuwait. When Bush 43 was elected, they saw an opportunity to get rid of Saddam. That's why we went to war against Iraq even though Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. It's also why the US military aborted the attempt to catch Bin Laden in Afghanistan. They did not want to catch Bin Laden, because if there had been a trial at the Hague, the truth would have come out.
226
@shannon actually Shannon, Saddam asked U.S. ambassador, Iraq, whether U.S. would have any interest in their invasion Kuwait, based upon fact Kuwaitis were drilling sideways into Iraq oil fields. She flew to D.C., met with superiors, returned with "position" U.S. would have no "interest"...U.S. went about warning Saudis they were next in sights of Saddam-and btw, would they like to have U.S. military presence to defend "Kingdom"? Saudis stumbled, and committed to U.S. forces on Saudi soil...it was the scheme all along, to place U.S. faces, Middle-East; moved, upon Iraq invasion...was also bin-Laden rationale for escalation...
7
@shannon
Amen I agree.
4
@nonclassical
yes, Saddam Hussein did ask for advice on Kuwait but was told that the US had no interest.
That response had to be a lie set to entrap Hussein, then the news agencies started to carry items stating that Iraqi army personnel was killing babies in the hospitals.
Misinformation to drum up support for the invasion of Iraq.
In contrast half of Iran moved to Los Angeles after the hostage crisis and the Shah moved to Santa Barbara where he lived on hill overlooking Arroyo Burro Beach.
The Iranians are our natural allies except for the clergy and the revolutionary Guards but our support of the Shah forced them to act. Studs Terkel said it plainly; after murdering everybody else only the Iranian clergy was left to oppose Savak and the Shah.
Our leaders know that fracking has made the US the no 1 oil exporter but fracking isn't a long term solution and killing renewable energy forces us to take sides with people like the Shah and MBS. Fracking costs a lot and leaves behind even more waste than plain well drilling ever did but Cheney allowed the news of contamination to be kept secret.
Trump will have to drum up the hatred of the Iranians if the economy takes a turn before the election.
The Senate will go right along.
7
Echoes the recent attempts to protect Saudis from accountability. When national security is defined as the same as oil security we are doomed.
88
@Carolyn C
Perfectly stated.
4
CC, I agree completely. Sadly, that burro has bolted the barn.
4
That we even find the question plausible says it all.
The Saudis are not now, nor have they ever been, devoted to anything other than the House of Saud and it’s Wahabi distortion of Islam. Whatever they did by commission or omission, Wahabism filled the gaps and the power of the Bin Laden family did the rest.
And our own government’s messy relationship to Big Oil made sure they were never held to account. Bush Sr. and hapless Dubya made sure of that.
158
Well said. Nowhere have I seen what was reported shortly after 9/11, that W had flown 40 wealthy Saudis out of the country on 9/12. Easy to draw the obvious conclusion.
8
The Saudis are allied with the government of the US, not its people. As such, they would have been acting in the interest of their ally to support 9/11, the greatest thing to happen to the Republican party and the American war machine in recent history.
27
@NT "Angler-the Cheney Vice Presidency". ("unitary executive")
2
Our FBI totally failed to coordinate the information they had from several Agents in different locations to prevent the 9/11 Attacks.
This is not new news.
The Saudis were complicit in supporting the 9/11 attackers.
Also not new news.
27
@Toby Finn
..."Able-Danger"
1
Watch the documentary The Man who Knew
2
The FBI and CIA for that matter cannot be blamed as the Bush administration, or more clearly, Chaney had been informed of terrorist activity but totally ignored it because neither the Saudis nor the Israelis confirmed the reports!
2
Great reporting, and needed. The big question seems to be, how have the Saudis gained the upper hand over the FBI and our whole intelligence structure, which seems real obvious? The Bush family was very entwined with the Saudis, and who can for get W letting the important Saudis all fly out of America right after the 9/11 attack?
We now see Trump almost worshiping them and
overlooking the murder and dismembering of Jamal Khashoggi.
Like the JFK assassination decades earlier, another history changing event, the 9/11 story has a lot of strange holes in it, and all kinds of conspiracy theories have flourished. Special thanks to the New York Times for continuing work on this important story.
203
The attacks of 9/11 proved to be useful for the government of the United States. That a friendly country or countries would help is understandable.
9
@Pressburger follow the money
1
@Pressburger
Very useful indeed, initiated a major foreign policy plan still going on.
It is not the fault of the Israelis nor the Russians nor the Saudis that America's national defense intelligence security agencies failed to deter, detect and defeat the 9/11/01 terrorist attacks.
40
They are two separate issues. The failure of US intelligence to detect and prevent an attack does not negate the abhorrent actions of the attackers.
124
@Blackmamba From past accounts, there seems to be evidence that the probability of an attack of some kind by Al-Qaeda was in fact predicted by the U.S. intelligence agencies, and the predictions were discounted by policy-makers in the Bush Administration. (Whether the target would be the Twin Towers, and whether it could occur on 9/11, are separate issues.)
32
@Blackmamba Saudi Arabia had a responsibility in preventing the 9-11 attacks as so many of the attackers were Saudis. We now have even less reason to trust the Saudis as their behavior in the last couple of years has violated any alliance principles we are sharing with them.
26