Hey Schiff staffers, your guy is killing it. Give him high fives and a slap on the back. Rational Americans are proud of the job he is doing.
40
Egomaniac Trump believes he has the rights of a monarch and can do whatever he pleases. Trump never has had any regard for the law. He has always depended on lackeys like Rudy Giuliani or McConnell to get him out from under prosecution. Now he has the entire Republican Senate and GOP leadership covering for his crimes.
The GOP has no shame as they use the same tricks that Donald Trump uses to stir up their base of low education, Fox News voters. McConnell, Graham, Collins, Cruz, Rubio, McSally… are all shameless as they reject decency and the Constitution seeking power and money at the expense of our nation.
20
Trump's jury is a hoot. Someone needs to go to jail and get a jury of his peers out. Manafort, Flynn, his campaign managers and his lawyer. Keep it honest.
4
The Democrats case is so weak--a farce. They will pay for this nonsense this fall. Vote for America--Vote Republican.
2
Schiff's closing five minutes will go down in the history books...for being on the right side of history. His reminder of what the whistle blower and those who testified before the House risked is the only germane point.
The cowards formerly known as the GOP should be squirming in their seats. Beyond contemptible...they're now fully complicit in criminal acts. It's time they paid a public price. They should be confronted, challenged, hissed and shunned wherever they go.
Confronted with a challenge germane to their paid jobs, they failed. That will be their record.
22
Democrats are destroying our Democracy. Schiff and Pelosi have fabricated documents in order to create an illusion that something nefarious has occurred. Schiff read those fake documents several times. He is robotically repeating lies on TV. Close minded Trump haters will believe these lies and falsehoods. 47 Democratic Senators are joining in the destruction of our Republic. They are ignoring their oath and are focused only on implementing a governmental coup. Democrats will be forever known as the Party that destroyed our Country for their own personal financial gain.
3
After the Republicans "acquit" the obviously guilty Trump they'll only have themselves to blame when they try to "control" the new Democrat president next year. Next year the new president will have unlimited license bestowed by the Republicans, to do whatever they want. The new president can spend the whole year playing golf and maybe put a moat around the white house. Maybe the new president will decide to expand the white house to take over the next street or three streets. Maybe the new president will knock down the Washington Monument in order to construct a new one named after himself.
The Republicans will have made it OK for the future President to do anything they want, without Congress or "permission" from anyone.
All Hail the president!
8
Bravo Adam Schiff and all the managers
18
Why is it that only Democrats fiercely defend the Rule of Law and the Constitution?
I beg an explanation. Anyone?
19
It turns out that a democracy is much easier to capture and turn into an autocracy where only the power of the leader is of any consequence. In autocracies, the puppet legislature is subservient and obedient, never challenging the power of the Dear Leader.
If you always thought it can't happen here, open your eyes and behold.
The Dear Leader flouts the rule of law, abuses his position by seeking personal gain and in response he gets the adoring servility of a submissive and obedient caucus of servants not of the people, but servants to him.
It can happen here. It's happening right now.
14
Nothing will stick to Teflon Trump. I fear we’re stuck with him another 4 years due to this spineless Republican Party.
I will never forgive the GOP Senators for allowing Trump to get away with this Ukraine deal.
Reagan is rolling in his grave tonight.
7
What’s baffling is that the people supporting Trump don’t care that the Russians got him elected. If this were 1950 he’d have been blacklisted.
11
How can a trial be called that if one side is committed to NOT find the truth? That can only be called a cover-up.
20
Nothing will change unless the citizens of this country either rise up in civil unrest, or vote in overwhelming numbers against this corrupt administration.
15
Dear Fellow Americans,
Contact your two Senators and tell them you need witnesses and documents.
Especially do this if you have a Republican Senator. I did it in Georgia.
Email and phone numbers:
https://www.senate.gov/
15
In a somewhat related observation, the Founders of this country when writing the US constitution could never have anticipated the vast disparity of representation that results from having two senators from each state.
California has 40 million people represented by 2 senators.
Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, New Mexico, Nevada, Utah, Oklahoma, Oregon, Colorado, Arizona, and Washington together have 40 million people represented by
22 senators.
This formula has reached the level of gross lack of equity in representation even allowing for some compensation for small state's interests.
We have a perversion of our representative government.
20
Trump should testify under oath at the Impeachment trial. The American public should hear from Trump himself under oath. Will he commit perjury or vindicate himself?
8
So the GOP bristled at the tone of the House Managers? Well, I guess that's all you've got left when you can't handle evidence-based attestation. Kudos to Adam Schiff for his detailed, chronological presentation of the facts. The GOP can run ... obfuscate ... ignore .. deny .. but they cannot hide. The truth ... will out.
18
I feel like the Dems dropped the ball. This was never about the trial, McConnell is not interested in justice. They should have sent a team of House managers consisting of 2/3 women. The Republican male Senators lagging 40 or more years culturally wouldn’t have been able to suppress their sexist nature. We need to maximize suburban female votes come November.
I have peaked at FOX News to see how they are covering the trial. Fox News represents all that is base in our society. It is an ad hominem world they live in. I also just read a quote from Senator John Cornyn. He said, “I’d hoped that we had moved beyond this embarrassing chapter for the Senate and for the country, but the circus has somehow returned.”
Who are the clowns who do not think for themselves? Who are the clowns who refuse to accept and act on the truth? Who are the clowns allowing the country to sink further away from the democratic and constitutional norms that we aspired to? These clowns do not bring laughter, but grimaces . . . and eventually tears and the grinding of teeth.
The House Managers; Adam Schiff, Jerry Nadler, Zoe Lofgren, Hakeem Jeffries, Val Demings, Jason Crow, and Sylvia Garcia represent the good in this country. They represent hope, dignity, humility, professionalism, and civility.
When our society returns to respectful and dignified discussion that the House Managers exhibit, then perhaps, we can say the circus has ended and return to the experiment in hope, freedom, and justice we call the United States of America.
13
The problem with this impeachment, from a viewer's perspective, is that it lacks the salacious details of the Clinton impeachment, to keep the viewer awake over the 24+24+36+36 = 120 hours + 5 min for the final vote.
This can easily be remedied.
The divorce proceedings of Hunter Biden are taking place now as well, the big issue is money, and so a split screen with the impeachment would show the interesting things Hunter did with those $3 million from Ukraine.
4
And so "Days of Impeachment" continue.
Another day - another same same.
I think I am a political junkie.
But really, could the Democrat managers tell us something that they have not leaked or paraded out in their sham hearings.
Where is James Carville or even Clinton with ready made quotes?
I also note that at least thru Perry Mason and even Judge Judy - we are always educated that first rule of lawyers "don't turn jury against you."
These Managers already struggling with voluminous records - insist it is Senate fault that they do not have more evidence.
To call Republican Senators - in cahoots with POTUS - not thru leaks - but to their face - even a TV producer will reject as insulting to jury.
As it is - others are reporting - this group of 70 year old ones - already showing kindergartenish behavior.
They have bolted the second a recess is announced.
Hewing to a senatorial privilege - conveniently not returning on time.
I am thinking even Democrat senators are going to demand a vote after this preliminary round of Mohammad Ali wanna bee's vs whoever's.
And so, the "Days of Impeachment" continue.
Trump runs his administration the same way he runs his companies and his diploma mill "university": through bribery and corruption with nothing but his own self-interest in mind. This is what happens when a narcissistic, egomaniac businessman and a "very stable genius" is at the helm of the most powerful country in history.
7
If … according the Senate Sargent at Arms … “All persons are commanded to keep silence, on pain of imprisonment,” if the Senate stands ready to imprison trial participants … why can’t the House enforce its subpeonas?
8
This entire charade is ridiculous. Trump was elected on a promise to drain the swamp and it seems counter intuitive to accuse him of doing something wrong when the only thing he did was inquire into a matter that reflected a campaign promise. For me it seems impossible that Hunter Biden could “accidentally” fallen into several million dollars simply because of his profound ability to do nothing to earn it. I do not blame Trump for simply asking Ukraine to corroborate his suspicions. Why does it need to relate in any way to the fact that he is up for re-election? Would it have been any different if Hunter Biden had been employed for millions by an American Corporation that through VP Biden’s influence had received a large government contract?
3
The POTUS is setting a record in Tweets during the senate hearing. He could be a fact witness in the hearings. I'm certain his base would appreciate his showing "Pencil neck" Schiff just how tough Donald John Trump really is.
As an American citizen, I've love to hear Trump speak under oath. Wouldn't you?
8
What should we expect from our elected officials? First, we should expect them to do what is right and not be concerned necessarily about who is right. We should expect them to follow the rule of law, namely the Constitution. I do not expect them to be in agreement with me all the time. Where we differ, I expect to hear and understand why we differ. I do not vote for a party but the person. A congressional representative or a senator's first obligation is to the Constitution and then his constituents. Without the Constitution, he has no constituents. Their oath of office is not to their party.
10
The Senate is now on trial. The voting public will have the final say in this spectacle. I fear that it will not end well for many political figures who worry more about their jobs than about their Republic
16
Awake KMW! The hearings are not entertainment! It is perhaps the height of cynicism and privilege that pans the truth. I benefited greatly listening to the story format of occurred. It is worth noting that a nation of mystery novel reading citizens cannot appreciate the cunning and duplicity of the cast of characters described if you are prone to cheering those personalities nor appreciate the individuals who can put two and two together. If you find this testimony boring, please don't bother to vote.
5
What were the Founding Fathers thinking, allowing the possibility of having the majority party to decide the fate of a president of the same party? That’s like having a thief tried by a a jury composed of his family members. The conflict of interest is just as extreme if the Democrats controlled the Senate.
I’m not a legal scholar, but it seems that we need an impartial jury. Perhaps Trump could be court-martialed. After all, he is commander-in-chief.
10
Trump doesn’t just ‘cheat,’ he’s a hardened criminal who is hellbent on getting his way at all costs. He is a mobster from Queens who took his criminal act on the road and decided to stop by 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue for four years to see what kind of felonies he can commit. He’s done quite well in that regard. Let’s hope the Democratic Managers of the House can convince even a few Senate Republicans to acknowledge that this awful president is a lifelong felon and needs to be brought to justice. It’s our only hope.
15
Sure it's breath-takeningly boring but it's a brilliant new tactic. Democrats are going to bore Republicans into voting for impeachment just to make it stop.
4
@james haynes
Democrats are going to bore the nation into voting Republican just to make the Democrats stop.
2
Nobody cares about the charade. Everyone cares about how you slander Bernie. Give this a rest. Dem leadership is corrupt and myopic.
2
When you think of the Republican Senate behavior - the heavy-handed overruling of justice and common sense - think of the Munich Beer Hall Putsch of 1923. The parallels are amazing!!
7
Election Day will have to do. Gang GOP has sold its soul to the devil. I applaud the House Managers and Senate Dems for being the patriots they were elected to be. We have a domestic terrorist in the WH. Senators do your duty and remove.
13
Shifty Schiff lies so much, he is incapable of telling a single truth. He somehow believes that if he can tell enough lies, it will become a truth. His problem is, his mother should have washed his mouth out with a lye based soap. (pardon the pun).
4
Trump stated he wanted to “sit right in the front row and stare into their corrupt faces.” How about in the witness chair under oath?
And how much "diplomacy" is Trump engaging in in Davos given the 140 tweets today?
What an embarrassment! And the GOP wants to keep and support this lying, thieving, corrupt semblance of a human being?
21
Any reasonable person knows Trump was, is and will be the most corrupt American president ever, he is proud of it. Nothing is gonna happen here, the same as nothing happens in Russia, Hungary, Venezuela, Nicaragua....turnt off the tv and read a book.
4
@Ivan
If people work hard to stay alive when they have cancer, even when they know that there is no hope. How can you recommend that people just read a book?.
What type of America do you want to live in? Where people just give up and let corruption take over?
Life, freedom is to important to sit back and let some ignorant draft dodger take it away from us. The same way people with cancer stay in the battle whether they can win or not
5
Interesting in that Trump will be more innocent for preventing witness to half the country. And more guilty for hiding witnesses to the other half.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could move the Election up to a week after the Senate Trial is finished.
3
Schaffer’s is masterful.
4
Who is paying for Trump's defense?
2
@expat We are. Just like we pay for every Tweet, every golf outing, every rally, every Fox news conference, all the days, months, and years Trump isn't working.
8
@expat Good point. Should be the Democrats, if they lose the trial. With all the money they got.
I can't see why Senator Schumer won't trade a Hunter Biden for a John Bolton appearance if there is the possibility that something really damaging to Trump would come out. In a worst case scenario Hunter's testimony causes Joe Biden to withdraw, which is a small price to pay if something is revealed that either allows the successful removal via impeachment of Trump or damages him badly enough that his re-election is badly at risk. By not having either of the Biden's testify so that others can make the case against Trump, it looks like Schumer is afraid that there are things he has to hide, and that appearance will Torpedo Joe Biden's chances of getting elected to the Presidencyanyway.
3
Chief Justice Roberts should offer a compromise to the Senators that wish not to see further evidence or witness testimony. He could simply give them the oppertunity to leave chambers while that evidence is given for both the record and for the American people see. Maybe later a dumbed down version along with Teddy Bears and emotional support could be offered if they appear able to handle it, but by no means should it be forced on them.
1
Can anyone actually sit through these presentations? They are incredibly boring and tedious. One keeps wondering why any of this is big deal. OK, Trump asked Ukraine to investigate Biden and his drug addict son, who had a super high paying job he was clearly unqualified for, while his Dad was pushing for a a corruption investigation into Ukraine. So what? It seems like Biden and Son should be in bigger trouble than Trump. If my life is better under Trump, then why should I want the Senate to throw him out for looking into the Dem frontrunner's corruption? I just don't get it.
6
@MJG
He was using your tax money to withhold legally mandated congressional funding in order to bribe a foreign government to dig up dirt on a political opponent. You're OK with that? You'd be OK with Obama withholding congressional funding to a foreign government to get dirt on Mitt Romney?
6
The testimony by the house officers has been outstanding, without a doubt. I've been listening on the radio throughout. How can any person who values the future of our democracy not want to hear the testimony of folks like Giuliani, Pompeo, and Mulveany? How could any elected Senator be indifferent to the urgency of this trial and the need for the American public to understand what is in the documents that the White House and all the other Federal Agencies under Trump's control have held secret? If there is a truth that exonerates Trump, it is only through witnesses and documents that it will be established. 69% of the American people want to know more. Any effort to stop short of investigating, or to be weak in the face of White House obstruction, will amount to a Senate GOP cover-up, in my very humble opinion.
19
those repubs who complain about repetition of facts, those citizens who complain about the same, require to have this informatiion repeated. those repubs who are disinclined to listen, who have predetermined their position, are wantonly and willfully obtuse. it is not acceptable that a politician or a policeman or a leader to smear an American opponent, but it is done. But, then, to go outside this country and attempt to get a leader of another country to search out a smear against an American is unconscionable.
10
The public is turning against Trump and these GOP sycophants are going to get thrown out of office in November too.
18
@Toms Quill;
Once can hope the Rs get voted out come November,
1
Following Thomas Friedman's sensible opinion piece “Why would an innocent man, and a jury interested in the truth, not want all the evidence out and all the witnesses to testify? Wouldn’t you if you were innocent?," both Dems and GOP look pretty bad withholding witnesses. We know there's a lot hidden on Trump side, but not offering up Hunter Biden makes it look like Dems also have something big to hide (or lose, if it torpedoes Joe Biden's chances).
Friedman article: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/21/opinion/trump-democrats-impeachment.html?searchResultPosition=2
2
@Cam - Thomas Friedman is using one of the cheapest fallacies available. It is not up to the defendant to prove himself innocent, the burden is on the prosecution to prove the defendant guilty. Outside of impeachment, the prosecutor also has the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. The Democrats, by moving and approving the Articles in the House made their case, we heard and saw witness testimony today. Documents were introduced today. The Senate may call witnesses yet, no one writing today knows that or not. Trump may invoke executive privilege at that time then off to court they will go to litigate that. The House blew it when they chose not to litigate the witnesses rejected by Trump at the time. It is unlikely the Senate will allow itself to be tied up for months by litigation which should have been brought by the House during the investigative phase but they by passed that for expediency.
5
@Cam
A (not all that great) short story —
Yesterday morning, my friend Charlie gave me $10,000.00 to give to you. Charlie told me you really needed the money, and asked me to make sure you got it right away. (Just to be clear, the money was never mine. Charlie collected the money from a group he represents and was directed to use the money to benefit the members of the group.)
Once I had the 10k in my hands, I decided I could use it to get a little something from you in return. You see, I know you can give me a little gossip about Pete’s wife, since you and Pete once worked together.
Pete and I are business competitors. Moreover, we don’t have the best history. I’m more than a little worried that Pete will steal some of my clients. I figure if I can get a little tidbit of salacious tittle tattle about Pete’s wife, I’ll be in the catbird seat, business-wise. It doesn’t even have to be true.
So, we talk and you tell me you’re ready to pick up your $10,000.00. Then I lower the boom, I tell you I’d like you to do me a favor, but never commit to giving you the money.
You call Charlie and the two of you decide to press charges against me for theft. Prior to the start of the trial, I do hand the money over, so the charges are changed to attempted theft and bribery.
Now just what could Pete’s wife say that would possibly aid, or be pertinent to, my case?
1
Nice try, but a Trumpist argument remains a Trumpist argument no matter how much lipstick one applies.
3
The House of Representatives are presenting an outstanding case for the removal of trump from being president in this historical impeachment trial. Although it must be said that republicans will be forever remembered for destroying democracy by not upholding their oath of supporting the Constitution and their oath of remaining impartial in the impeachment trial they will always be despised by true Americans for their greed and despicable, desperate grab for power.
18
Mr. Trump told reporters at the news conference that he would love to attend the trial — something that no other president has done and that his lawyers have advised against — so he could “sit right in the front row and stare into their corrupt faces.”
All that power... but the "president" can't attend because he's under audit OR he's not allowed to by McConnell OR if Trump showed his face he couldn't CONTROL himself and we'd see the REAL Trump.
Besides how he couldn't possibly sit there without being able to send out constant tweets about his "treatment" during this trial.
9
i wonder what democrats are afraid off ? why are they trying to keep biden and his son from testifying ? are they scared that good old joe might spill something they dont want to become public ? or are they scared that he might testify something that later on might lead to him getting prosecuted for lying to congress ?
Bidens testimony IS very much relevant because it was trumps request to investigate the bidens connections to burisma that caused this whole thing !
7
You do realize that it is the republican senators that have prevented additional testimony?
8
If we have 53 senators who ignore their oath to uphold the Constitution in the face of the clear and compelling evidence, we are not the great country we purport to be. If we have citizens who elected these 53 senators who support their willful ignorance, we are not the great country we purport to be.
We do not need Putin to destroy our democracy. We have 53 senators who are apparently very content to do just that.
21
@Marianna
Actual destruction of our democracy will require only 47 senators and 232 representatives. Fortunately, the Republicans will be in their way.
If the Democrats are so concerned about documents and witnesses, why didn’t they wait to obtain them in the House investigation like they were supposed to? They rushed through impeachment only to delay the trial for a month and then complain the process is not fair. What a farce! For Schiff, Pelosi and company this is about one thing only: a nakedly political attempt to hurt Trump’s chances in this year’s election. They have revealed their true colors!
6
@av35
"Propaganda works best when those who are being manipulated are confident they are thinking for themselves and acting on their own free will." Joseph Goebbels
6
Absolutely masterful Congressman Schiff. Job well done. America thanks you.
27
Adam Schiff was great today. He was so prepared, focused, had so much endurance, clarity, intensity. I was riveted - even though I wanted to pour my self a double bourbon I was glued to my chair tonight. I dare to hope, I dare not hope - but he restored some of my faith that we will survive as a democracy.
29
I was at a quiet peaceful woman's day march, just last week in a small town. It brought me to tears at the Pledge of Allegiance. We are not one country, not indivisible, nor under God.
And "liberty and justice for all" had me gasping at how far we've left that behind as even an ideal.
9
I wish the camera would pan to the Senators on occasion. I just wonder if the Republican Senators are paying attention when the house managers speak or if they are just zoning out... because they've already made up their minds .....and it's too uncomfortable to hear the facts.
6
Mitch’s rules ... only one camera, aimed only at the person speaking.
You are an American Hero, Adam Schiff.
Where is the Courage to do the right thing? Was your last question. This sentiment is displayed in NYC America History Museum
Only those are fit to live who do not fear to die and none are fit to die who have shrunk from the joy of life and the duty of life.
13
@That's What She Said
Beautiful and a wonderful way to end a day of listening to pure brilliance from the democratic managers. Nancy said the "days have found us" leading us back to the promise land of democracy and thank God we have Adam, Jerry and everyone else who worked so hard to do so much for the American people.
Thank you
5
Stunning closing! To invoke the career diplomats who came forward with "everything to lose" – especially former Ambassador Yovanovitch – to speak truth to power emphasizes once again the best America has to offer.
Taylor, Kent, Holmes, Dr. Hill, Lt. Col. Vindman: one could almost feel the emotion behind what Chairman Schiff was evoking. "Shining city on a hill " – indeed. Let's hope at least some of the Republican senators were actually listening.
Because the courage, intelligence, and dedication these dedicated professionals displayed makes Trump's corrupt mercurial temperament and ignorance all that much more small.
26
Shiff's closing statement tonight was beautiful.
Calling for courage, courage to match those goverment officials that defied Trump, and testified. Shiff has been absolutely brilliant.
25
John Bolton should just hold a Press Conference and let the reporters question him. John, are you listening? Love of country comes first
11
So how are the Republicans going to prove this is all false without the documents they voted not to admit? Oh yes....the Kavenaugh defense...scream and yell for Trump.
13
The Democrats are doing such a powerful job of stating the facts and calling out Trump for his lying, dishonesty, and his disservice to our country. I expected it to be dry and boring, but it has captured and held my attention. History in the making.
30
What is clear from the pro-Trump comments made here is that Trump cultists do live in a world devoid of truth and facts. It is a pseudo-religious devotion to a proven compulsive liar that defies the imagination.
26
This is how democracy dies.
5
My best friend and I were arguing today as which GOP Senator was less intelligent - Ted Cruz or Rand Paul. After listing all the negatives of each of these Neanderthals, we called it a tie. Then we asked ourselves why these two gadflies are even quoted in mainstream news articles, and couldn't understand that either.
16
Anybody watching how Fox “News” is covering the impeachment trial? It’s stunning and sickening.
If Mike Bloomberg really wanted to help oust Trump, he would buy Fox and immediately get rid of the propaganda programming because the lies they spin are the single biggest threat to our democracy and it’s time to hold them accountable for giving the appearance of providing journalism without actually covering what’s going on. Nixon never would’ve had to resign if Fox had been around back then, crafting this crazy alternate reality.
I don’t see how anyone can work at Fox and sleep well at night.
27
Murdoch wouldn’t sell. He enjoys destroying Western Democracies and watching his own country burn
2
Mock Trial with Judge Roberts. The Democrats are laying out a clear and compelling case to anyone who is bothering to listen. Unfortunately I also read the “81 Americans” on impeachment article in the NYT and am just completely disheartened by the lack of knowledge the average citizen has of the facts. The blatant quid pro quo bribery for foreign election assistance, and the obstruction of Congress which has a Constitutionally enshrined investigation and oversight power. The GOP is running a cover up trial scared to let the truth come to light with any testimony or evidence the POTUS has blatantly just refused to comply. Would those GOP voters be so forgiving of such a blatant disregard for the Constitution if the President was Hilary Clinton and not Donald Trump. Hardly.
We have defunded education have left civics by the wayside and live in a twiterized sound bite driven marketing world where the master snake oil salesman DJT can and has actually convinced his base this is all somehow a personal attack and he is doing great and America is doing great when factually Obama has a better economy and DJT is juicing the poorer numbers he has by running up unsustainable amounts of debt - but that is not the story you will here on the Fox News propaganda machine.
I only hope there are enough intelligent and independent minded active voters that see through the charade.
If not, then this is how democracy dies. Our shining city on a hill is no more than a nuclear waste heap.
22
“These are times that try men’s souls”
- Adam Schiff quoting Thomas Paine-
First though, you have to have a soul.
Not applicable to those in power who have made Faustian bargains to pander to Trump and his base, all the while crawling across cut glass to equivocate his assaults on your constitution.
They probably qualify as “sunshine patriots” though.
Keeping in mind that their sun glows orange, not yellow.
11
Rep. Schiff: Enough is enough. You talked too much. You must enjoy listen to yourself. I think it is so boring and monotonous. I worked for the US Congress from 1957-2005 and happily retired. You are the worst lawmaker in my memory. Senator Mike Mansfield, Ted Kennedy, Charles Percy, and Bob Dole were the greatest in my memory. I just turned off my TV tonight. Trump will be in the White House until 2024. Mark my word for it.
7
Adam Schiff for president.
16
Day One: Democratic arguments
Day Two: Same Democratic Arguments
Day Three Rinse
Day Four : Repeat
It seems to me that this is clearly going nowhere.
7
Schiff impersonated Trump and brazenly acted the phone call in a bizarre and very illegal way although the so called evidence is overwhelming. That is a decider for me: acquit!
7
Trump is guilty of his accused wrongdoings, the evidence is overwhelming. But given the hyper partisan nature of US politics the GOP cannot bring themselves to do what their predecessors did 40 years ago in pushing out Nixon. Perhaps the GOP think Trump is an anomaly & no future POTUS will have the character defaults he has, therefore in their own minds they are not setting precedent its ok to trade foreign policy for personal political favors because it surely wont ever happen again as Trump is the abnormal POTUS never to be repeated. Why sacrifice their own political careers correcting a problem that will never happen again? Such naivety. Trump is not only a cancer on the USA, but within the GOP. The GOP is turning into a cult whose direction moves with the whims & wants of Trump. He can move the parties long held positions overnight in less than 140 characters. How much fun can it be living in service to Trump & demeaning yourself before him. In 2024 when the GOP candidates line up to either succeed Trump or take on Biden, Warren or Sanders – this individual is going to have to kiss Trumps ring because Trump will never walk away & surrender ‘his base’ to his successor. Its ‘his base’ & it will cost you. This is the life for the GOP unless they can rid themselves of Trump and Trumpism – in constant service to Trump & his many character flaws.
6
Yeah, all the President’s men are making the same “argument”: that the House doesn’t need to present additional witnesses and the Senate doesn’t need any emails or other written evidence because the accusations are bogus. Senate Republicans know the President is innocent, of course, because the President has told them so and they believe him.
So the American voter is being denied the possibility of seeing and hearing the exonerating evidence which the President wants us to believe he is hiding because he doesn’t have to show anything he does to anyone because he is: “HE WHO CANNOT BE QUESTIONED” and his Attorney General Barr tells him so and the Senate Republicans believe them.
Trump says he hasn’t committed a crime but withholding money already designated by the House is a crime. He says that he didn’t threaten Zelinsky with any quid pro quo but Ambassador Sondland said otherwise, but we know that Trump always tells the truth. And all the President’s men all tell the Truth.
In psychology this behavior of labeling falsehood as truth is called, “crazy making.” In politics this is called destruction of Truth and democracy by intentional obfuscation, a characteristic of all tyrannies.
9
The rules are explicit: No one is allowed to bring electronics into the Senate chamber during the trial. Nonetheless, when a GOP Senator's phone rang during the trial, Roberts did nothing.
The rules are also explicit that no Senator may leave his/her seat during the trial. Despite that, there were a dozen (or more, depends on who's counting and when) empty GOP seats during the presentation of opening arguments. If Roberts cared one whit about his role as presiding judge -- or about the Constitution -- he would, at a minimum, reprimand all of those not present. If they persist, he should bar them from voting as jurors in a trial they chose not to witness.
That is, of course, if Roberts cares one whit about the Constitution and his obligations under it.
24
Trump is just a reality star playing President which is why he cannot understand why his asking for dirt on Biden is wrong in any way - he just wants to keep his role for another four years, that’s all. The Republican politicians and aides who “support” him are cunningly using him to stay in power and the voters who support him sadly are naive or deluded into thinking he is the President — he just plays one on TV and Twitter.
4
Why is John Roberts not overruling McConnell in McConnell's corrupt efforts to make a farce out of this so-called trial without witnesses or documents? How is that even possible?
This sham will become part of Roberts' legacy along with the blatant obstruction of justice by the entire Republican Senate. It is a disgrace to our nation.
16
Everyone is overthinking this ... just ask the Senate Republicans, "Really, you really want the next Democratic President using the same tactics?".
6
Notice right now how Fox News is hiding testimony from it's viewers. They offer the impeachment in a small split screen while they talk over it with lies or provide important messages (also lies) from their sponsors (Ads).
Long before Trump, I have been warning of the GOP. For decades I have seen how they ONLY work for the rich. But for years already, well before Trump, the level of their devious lies should be ringing alarm bells and air raid sirens.
These treasonous traitors are trying to take our democracy away from us. Make no mistake. The 2020 election is in peril.
11
The question isnt is Trump guilty. (He is.) It's what whappens to the country after Republicans shred the Constitution and acquit him.
The Republican party ignores rules, truth and facts, It doesn't care about fairness. It refuses to cooperate or compromise.
Republicans practically reject the right of Democrats to exist, much less have power.
Can the United States continue as a democracy (or Democratic Republic) with only one legitimate party?
Tbe 2020 election will go a long way to answering this question. Will we re-elect Trump and continue our demise. Or elect a Democrat and maybe get back on track.
18
There are three buttons on the Managers’ clickers: play, rewind and repeat. They might try to find the mute button. Schiff’s initial argument was 2.5 hours. Could have and should have been done in less than an hour. I tried cases for 27 years so I have a basis for this opinion, and it pains me to offer it up because I think they have a good case. They need witnesses, of course. And real lawyers.
5
It’s clever of Schiff to draw it out and repeat, repeat, repeat. It makes sure more of the American Public’s eyeballs are focused on it for a longer period of time. If they summed up the arguments quickly the 24hr news cycle would be done with it and onto the republican defense by now.
13
@ChiGuy
Most lawyers only have to convince 12 jurors in one courtroom. And no cameras recording your every move.
The House Managers have 100 jurors, who are also judges, plus millions of voters and viewers across three time zones and beyond. History is watching and recording too.
This is a complex case with a lot of evidence. Schiff is a superb lawyer and the managers are all effective in their own ways.
3
Schiff said what? That Trump is trying to steal the election?
That’s rich.
It was the Dems who wanted (and tried desperately) to reverse the last one’s outcome - which was entirely theirs to lose and which they did, entirely on their own.
13
@waldo
How did Dems `desperately try to reverse the 2016 presidential election?' exactly?
Hilary gave up that night. No one posed a legal challenge to the election results.
You must be confused with the desperate attempt by Trump to claim the largest inauguration crowd in history. (Actually one of he smallest.)
12
It is called cheating when you try to win by doing something underhanded.
That is what Mr Trump has attempted to do.
7
@waldo there's no Fox news in Canada. You reading that propaganda in the Rebel?
3
It is sad commenters are saying they are "bored" by the Democrats' necessary presentation of this case for Trump's trial.
Maybe next week will be more interesting to them when the GOP circus has the Senate floor and will talk about all kinds of wild stuff, except being able to actually refute the facts of the case.
It might be interesting to keep track of how many diversionary tactics, false equivalence analogies, and fallacious arguments the Republicans come up with next week to excuse Trump's impeachable behavior and violation of his oath or office and the Constitution.
With a little luck, the Republicans under Mitch McConnell can turn their defense of Trump into another OJ circus.
After all, Trump has Alan Dershowitz on his legal team to defend him, whose past clients include: Claus von Bülow, O.J. Simpson, Mike Tyson and Jeffrey Epstein. Trump fits right in as a Dershowitz client.
Already, this very rare and important trial of a president's abuse of power is turning into a real Alice in Wonderland event, where the Republican senators take an oath of impartiality to hear the case, while previously announcing they intend to acquit President Trump.
13
The Democrats should insist on calling Mr. Trump as a witness, maybe the only one, even if Republicans want Hunter Biden. Seems like a fair trade to me.
9
Schiff is out there putting it all on the line to uphold the integrity of our constitution. Hero.
32
I am deeply grateful that McConnell is unable to provide ear plugs and blindfolds to republican Senators.
All Senators must listen with their own ears and watch with their own eyes. I hold on to hope that, when forced to listen to the evidence, at least some will put country over party.
10
As a good citizen, I tried my best to watch the proceedings. I just cannot. Mostly because of the dull nature of the presentations and it is also a forgone conclusion. I am coming to think that if there was no salacious details in the Clinton impeachment it would be have gotten the same audience I think.
3
I think it is a strategic blunder by Schumer not to agree to a hostage swap H. Biden for Bolton.
We would finally get some riveting new testimony instead of a total rehash of the House findings.
Biden should have nothing to hide. He could even call out that his work for Barisma is no different and far less self-dealing than Trump’s own children.
In return we get to hear Bolton on the record. I do not believe he would perjure himself to protect the President.
You have to give to get and being unwilling to give anything and play the purity card instead is not helping the cause here.
4
Mitch made a mistake. The Dem managers are continually getting the best primetime hours to repeatedly lay out their case against Trump and put a picture frame on the Republican co-conspiracy and obfuscation. Those primetime hours will have a trickle effect through the electorate over the next ten months.
12
Democrats must truly be so afraid that Trump will win ‘big’ in 2020 that this charade is all they have left.
14
@Conservative Mom
I am afraid that Trump might win (cheat or steal) in Nov. because I don't want to lose what's left of the Constitution, our democratic principles, our self respect as a nation, the planet …
8
Please provide factual evidence that exonerates Trump and proves this is all a charade, I’ll wait.....................................
5
@Conservative Mom
This is not about Trump per se. It is about respecting and upholding the Constitution. Trump is insignificant relative to upholding the Constitution for the future well-being of the US and all its citizens.
3
I'll bet that President Zelensky and the Ukranian people are finding all this revealing and fascinating. I hope we have some people reporting from there.
5
We have just the tip of the garbage heap. From a distance it may look like an innocuous blot on the landscape. But it is a stinking heap of bits and pieces which must be sorted. Slow work. Think of how many patriots have done so much, and at what cost to themselves, to overcome Trump/GOP obstruction even this much. Just imagine if the GOP cared about the truth!
Just imagine how much this GOP and the Trump presidency are costing this nation.
14
How about drafting Adam Schiff as the Dem candidate? He'd be a great President and would make mince-meat out of Trump in debates. (But I still think that Trump is likely to refuse to participate in debates no matter who the Dem candidate is.)
21
Whatever meritorious point the Democrats may have had in these impeachment proceedings has now been lost in the drone of monotony. They’ve been given 24 hours to bore and they used every bit of it!
3
Although the state animal of Maine is the moose, it’s senior Senator is a weasel, and as the Democrats set forth the facts proving Trump’s abuse of power, she is crafting the weasel words which she will use to justify her vote against subpoenaing witnesses and for acquittal. It will likely say something like “the Democrats request for witnesses underscores the holes in their case which they should have filled before coming to the Senate. The Democrats are not asking us to merely call witnesses, they are asking us to complete their investigation.”
She will speak as the conscience of the Republicans; in fact she will be one of the unconscious Republicans numbed by Trump’s lies and bullying.
We can only hope the jury of voters will not be numbed by truth. In closing the Democrats must leave the facts to speak for themselves, and address the danger to our Democracy that Trump’s conduct represents, and why such dangerous conduct requires removal from office.
They must make the party of Trump and enablers like Collins look like weasels looking for a hole to burrow themselves to hide from the truth.
18
Democrats are presenting a case based on facts and the constitution.
Republicans are mounting a defense based on denial, insults, bluster and outright lies, empowered by total shamelessness.
Sadly, they will likely prevail thanks to Mitch McConnell and the total corruption of the GOP.
America must not forget.
32
The president will never be acquitted. Forever he will remain impeached. You can't acquit someone if you have not conducted a proper trial or investigation. The senate is not conducting this, and hence the president can't possibly be acquitted. He won't like this, but it's factual.
4
“...we have all the material. They don’t have the material.”
- DJT
Mr. Trump is correct. They refuse to turn over documents. So they do in fact have all the material, and they won't share it.
16
@MidtownATL Openly admitting to obstruction of justice, and the republican senators just shrug.
10
Why is Schiff going over all these minute details now, during the dinner hour when people might actually be listening? This morning, he moved me to tears, but now he seems to be mired in the details (can't see the forest through the trees). Our democracy is at stake here, people! If Trump can get away with his brazen impeachable offenses, then this democracy is seriously doomed! Please, Rep. Schiff and other impeachment managers, remember the American short-span attention span! Do not lose them on these details with verbose arguments. I know it's all for the record, but try to be more savvy or else you will not win the American public opinion. Only 51 percent think this madman that somehow became POTUS should be removed from office. How can that be? I am despondent, realizing that so many of my fellow Americans don't really care if our democracy survives, or know what is at stake.
6
@Concerned Citizen I care, deeply (hi from a bit north of you). Yes it's dinner but I work all day and listen whenever I can. It's truly depressing, I agree. But, hang in there my friend, it's all we can do!
9
Nadler has nothing to apologize about to the Republicans as he speaks for the citizens of the United States when he criticizes them for not looking at all the facts, testimony, and demand the hidden documents which have been lawfully subpoenaed. The Republicans are treasonous by risking our national security by not convicting Trump of withholding vital military aid from Ukraine to fend off the menacing foe of Russia who would be happy to “bury” us, to use the words of Nikita Khrushchev.
13
You can sum up the Republican defense in two words:
"So what."
They all know what Mr. Trump did. They just don't care.
34
They might start caring when they’re looking for new jobs next January.
9
@MidtownATL It's the same as their stance on health care for the 99%!
3
When Trump stopped the much needed military aid that Ukraine was desperate for,...to defend themselves against Russian aggression, Trump gave comfort and aid to our enemy.
Treason in any sense of the word.
17
The Republicans claim that Donald Trump was trying to root out corruption in Ukraine.
In order to believe that, you have to believe that the most corrupt person involved with Ukraine was not a Ukrainian citizen, but rather an American citizen. And this American just happens to be the son of Mr. Trump's leading political opponent.
Wow. What a giant coincidence!
7
In vaudeville they used to have a hook to reach out and pull a performer who is flopping off the stage (or so they say). If the Democrats use more than a few hours to state their case they are going to sabotage their own effort. The same can be said of the defense. Be prepared to use the hook!
7
@T Smith How about, try to improve your attention span and recognize the importance of this moment. This is a trial, not one of Trump's reality shows.
15
Adam Schiff is amazing... so incredibly articulate. But, what is the point of these opening arguments if no witnesses will be called? Without witnesses, this impeachment trial is pretty much a done deal? It's highly unlikely any Republicans will be "persuaded" to vote against Trump?
21
True. But what this can do is convince independents (and republicans uncomfortable with trump) to see the Republican senators’ cover-up, sham trial and disregard for our constitution, and then vote them out in November.
7
@Tom
They might, if they listened to the house prosecuters. Then, listened to the president’s attorneys.
The prosecution has a case. The defense doesn’t.
5
It will remain on the record.
6
Representative Adam B. Schiff will come out of this as a patriot and a role model and one of the most admired Americans of all time. His intelligence and composure is remarkable.
62
Um, he asked for every viable witness who had first hand knowledge of the POTUS’ actions in this matter. The whistle blower is allowed anonymity and protection under the law. Plenty of other potential witnesses where on the call and several were aware of the POTUS’ thinking and actions here and almost every one was blocked by the POTUS in Obstruction of Congress, which is a crime. Whose the one with something to hide? Republicans were present in every deposition in the House, and could ask any question they wanted on cross examination. The defense has no evidence, no factual basis for a case so they revert to personal attacks on the prosecutors or attack the process. Please present a factual argument of exoneration.... I’ll wait...........
5
@Matthew
It’s clear why Pelosi chose the House Intel Committee to start the investigation and why she chose Schiff as the lead House manager in the Senate trial. He’s brilliant and his oral arguments are quite compelling. Love his dry humor too.
3
Without witnesses and documents, this is a sham trial like one would expect in a third-rate failed state run by a tin-pot dictator.
Who's to blame?
The Banana Republicans.
32
Why can't John Bolton just talk? Go on national tv and say what he knows like Lev Parnas? Can he only speak under subpoena or if called by the Senate? What kind of 'patriots' are in this Office? But sure, he can sell his book. Don't buy anything from a traitor.
22
Because whatever he blurts out on TV is inadmissible in the Senate. And may taint his testimony under oath. If he’s smart he stays silent until subpoenaed and only until after the possibility of subpoena is completely exhausted does he speak publicly in a different forum. Would be best is he is not called as a witness that he go on national TV the night before the Senate vote and say everything he knows. Maximum protection for himself, maximum impact if they don’t call him.
What does the NYTimes mean by "Trump is accused of cheating" to win an election?
That's a FACT!!!
21
@stewarjt NYTimes will "both sides" this thing until the wheels fall off our democracy.
4
Day one of the mock trial, without witnesses and without presentation of ample evidence allowed: Not Looking Good.
The Cover-Up Republicans are clearly traitors to our country.
They all need to be tried as such.
This is a mockery of justice, over which Mock Judge Roberts presides.
This whole government is a bad joke, not to be trusted with anything.
The Clowns of the GOP outdo Pennywise, every single one of them.
Beep Beep!
12
Vladimir Putin has succeeded in spectacular fashion in destroying the United States of America. You really have to give credit to the old KGB head of the East Berlin office. He has accomplished his mission above and beyond all expectations.
27
I was thinking that just this morning and I'm not even American.
6
@KBob
There are still many more of us then them. The final chapter on all this is yet to be written. Americans hate tyranny.
3
To the Senators who are African-American men and women, to the women, Hispanic people, Native -American, Asian; To the Senators of all religions: Moslems, Buddhists, Christians and Jewish; to those who desire justice and are sickened by the greed and corruption, now is your moment to speak, and please do.
This can be the end of the vise-like grip of power-control the white man has held on our country. He has a place, yes, but not the only place, in the running of our country. His time of absolute control is over, and we are witnessing the dying spasms of that total power. To the white man: you still have some power, but now you must share. Everyone gets a say. Your run is through, and you have just about ruined us!! Step aside, let people of color, women, people of varied faiths make their contribution to the running of our country, for their voices are vital!!! We will not make it without their wisdom, skill, insight, knowledge and contributions. Just sit down and listen.
8
@NotKidding South Africa did it, and where is South Africa now?
1
A lot of talk that will end up accomplishing nothing and create an even more stagnating, incompetent federal government. I truly believe our politicians aren't qualified to work in a convenience store.
1
I would trade a Hunter Biden for a John Bolton any day.
3
I am sorry, but if the managers can’t explain the case in 2 or three hours, they will lose public opinion. I can’t stand Trump, but all this speechifying, as my kids say, is wearisome. Taking 24 hours is a huge tactical error.
7
@Mary It's a trial, Mary.
5
Will someone please explain to me why the articles of impeachment do not include extortion or bribery. It's what they did so why not call it what it is?
6
@John Much of the evidence that would support those charges no doubt exists but has been withheld or suppressed by the White House. Numerous people who could corroborate testimony have defied subpoenas. The court battles that would resolve these issues would take many many months. So, here we are.
2
@Jackson Obstruction is an impeachable offense, Jackson.
2
@Jackson
Why are the fox news kids always wrong?!
GAO-Trump broke the law. Google it.
1
Glimpse of American bipartisanship, FOX News is running split screen, commercials running side by side with Adam Schiff speech in Senate whose voice is muted. Obviously intent is to keep their voters from questioning and defecting.
Land of the Law or land of muted.
11
Sadly, we have all become so partisan that all of this is meaningless. No one is willing to acknowledge that the other side has some valid points. Ultimately, I am disgusted by the republican party and all of its members. Their actions show that the game is more important than making any attempt to adhere to the guidelines set up by the constitution. Our democracy is broken, and I hold the republican party and the progressive democrats to blame for this mess. When people are unable and unwilling to compromise the chasm they create is unsurmountable.
5
Looking forward to when the Republicans submit their questions. It will show if they are dealing with the facts or will their questions be filled with conspiracy theories? I don't think most Republicans heard the actual facts before. And seems that some are not staying in the chamber to hear all the evidence laid out by Democrats.
We'll soon learn if they are good students, or if they have been skipping class.
5
Message to Trump, McConnell and whole Republican kitten caboodle: Your sins, untruths and failings WILL find you out. Make no mistake, they ALWAYS do no matter who you are.
The truth has been and will continue to be told and recorded for all time. Regardless of the outcome from this Senate hearing, Trump cannot escape. He cannot finagle his way out of his thick web of lies and back handed tricks. History will tell the tale.
Message to Trump’s lawyers: What school of law taught you that it’s ok to tell bold face lies to the nation? I can only conclude that your former professors are hanging their heads in shame and rightly so.
22
Thankful the Impeachment is unfiltered on all the major networks. Fox news can’t hide the President’s sins anymore!
14
For Chuck Schumer to complain about trial procedures is
unbelievable, this is from a man who publicly stated in 1998
that he was going to vote to acquit Clinton BEFORE he was even elected to Senate.
10
Get your facts straight. He wrote the letter ONE DAY before the vote to acquit Clinton with several days of a trial, mountains of actual evidence the WH did not obstruct, and video recorded witness testimony. Stop swallowing the GOP lies and do some independent research.
4
Much ado about something very important with a somnambulant jury.
1
I wonder how many Senators have actually watched all of the witness testimonies from the House Intel Committee?
Senator John Kennedy may be right...very few. Time for Hannity, but not time to do your homework?
7
“We’re doing very well,” he said. “I got to watch enough. I thought our team did a very good job. But honestly, we have all the material. They don’t have the material.”
—From a quoted tweet written by Donald Trump today
“...we have all the material.”
This is a trial right? The Republicans can’t use documentation that was denied to the house, can they? That can’t be allowed.
“...we have all the material. They don’t have the material.”
What in the world does that mean?!?
7
@Tom W
“...we have all the material.”
Mr. Trump is right. They refuse to turn over the documents, so they do in have have all the material, and they won't share it.
6
@MidtownATL
Do you think Trump realizes that anyone and everyone can read his tweets? Some of them are incoherent. Some are confessions of illegal or unethical acts. Most are just plain hare-brained.
Maybe he doesn’t get it.
You know, in reality Trump just plain doesn’t get most of what’s to be gotten
6
What a total shameful escapade this is, playing out in front of the entire world. I hope those who voted for this faux president are overjoyed with their choice.
12
@HotGumption I don’t like Trump but I thank God everyday that Hillary Clinton is not our President. Too bad they stabbed Bernie in the back in 2016.
2
The House Managers are formidable. Strategy, tactics, rhetoric, presentation. Brilliant. They are laying out the facts and connecting the dots. They are flat out doing exactly what the Constitution calls for and showing the GOP for what they are. These seven are restoring my respect for government and for the Democratic party. Thank You!
39
Ah, here it is! Here it IS!! Trump ‘cheated’ in the election. We’ve said all along this is only about litigating 2016’s election results. Now it’s confirmed.
5
Actually it’s about trying to cheat in 2020 and using congressional approved funds to do it. If he wasn’t president he would be neighbors with Michael Cohen. We all know he cheated in 2016.
11
@Once From Rome
He was referring to Trump's effort to cheat in 2020 with the help of manufactured Ukraine investigation of the Bidens.
But this is not the fist time Trump has asked for help from a foreign government. since he has clearly done so on national TV for all to see, so it now seems to be a clear pattern.
Besides, why would anyone litigate the 2016 results in an election year? It makes no sense when there is a new election coming up soon and when Biden had a double digit lead in swing states before this impeachment process ever started and this lead came out in the polls about when Yovanovich was removed and the Ukraine nonsense began in earnest.
In contrast, there was no motive for the Dems to do this - the Dems were way ahead in the polls. On the other hand Trump had a clear motive to cheat - it was clear he would lose and this was evident at about the time he increased his efforts to manufacture dirt.
If he reacts the way he does to crowd size even when it is raining - think how he would flip out with really bad poll numbers!
You have to look at who had the motive.
4
Let’s say your neighbor needs to borrow your extra car and you agreed to lend it to them because their car broke down and they needed it to get to work or they would be fired.
Let’s say your oldest child told the neighbor to tell you that it was your younger child’s fault that your dog was hit by a car (which was a lie), that unless they told that lie that the older child would make sure the neighbor did not get to borrow the car and the neighbor would lose their job.
What would you think about that? Would that be ok?
Well, what if it was not your kid who did that but the President of the United States and he was not withholding a car, in fact he was illegally withholding giving military assistance to an entire country who needed It to protect their lives in an ongoing war. The president wanted them to lie about his expected political opponent in order to help himself win the next election in exchange for getting that military assistance.
Is that an ok thing for a president to do?
4
If the House Managers want to make sure that the Republicans are still listening, one of them should start reading the part of the Steele dossier that talks about Trump cavorting with the Russian prostitutes and see if anyone notices.
16
The House Managers are going an excellent job. Looking forward to hear how the Trump lawyers respond to the actual facts of this case. Much hangs in the balance.
6
@skfinkel
They White House lawyers have not been focused on facts so far, and have even repeated lies and the conspiracy about the secret rooms used in the basement. During the House hearings the GOP constantly mentioned what they heard there - because they and many others were in the room that is simply routinely used for national security reasons until they know which evidence can be made public and which has to be redacted.
Don’t expect too much substance...
I think one of the best arguments that I have heard against one of the main White House defense positions is that codified federal laws did not even exist when the Constitution was written. In fact, some serious federal laws did not even exist for another 20 years or more - like bribery.
So, It is absolutely impossible that the Founders intended that "high crimes and misdemeanors" would refer only to breaking particular codified laws on the books.
It is completely impossible to come to this conclusion because there wa no such thing in existence when the Constitution was written. It is not even possible for it to be considered as one interpretation.
Yet - Trump's main lawyer, Alan Dershowitz, who will be making the White House's Constitutional argument against Impeachment, who appears regularly on FOX News, has been insisting that such a crime must exist, as a defense.
BTW he said the opposite in 1998.
It seems like he will be making a ridiculous claim to be entered into the record for posterity, when it is his turn to argue. It will become a part of history that he did so. Does he really want this to be his legacy?
Sadly, do we think the GOP or Trump really care about the true intent and meaning of the Constitution at this moment? It certainly does not seem to be the case at this moment in history.
13
One of the Democratic candidates needs to announce that ANY COUNTRY WITH DIRT ON TRUMP SHOULD COME FORWARD IF THE WANT FAVORABLE TREATMENT BY THE US AFTER THIS YEARS ELECTION.
Let's see how that is recieved by the Senate. I assume no issue.
17
@Luke Kimble
The GOP will just say that Trump was also "just kidding" too.
Adam Schiff has done a masterful job so far. He has full command of the facts and makes clear their relevance as well as the larger implications for our republic. And his pithy rebuttals of allegations by Trump’s team of bloviating TV lawyers makes them look just as incompetent as their boss.
I could easily support Schiff on the Dems presidential ticket.
24
Trump was impeached.....he lost. Why isn't that emphasized more? This step is to see, not if he is innocent, but if what he did was harmful enough to require his removal. No one is contradicting the evidence, and it is a drag to hear it again. It will be even more awful to hear the president's people ignore the evidence and scream and yell about who knows what.
How about everyone agrees that they will all play their parts well, and then move on to a discussion about the impact of removal, and whether these wrongful (not in dispute) acts tip the scales past the negative consequences of a mid-term change of leadership.
4
@rick The Republicans won't even acknowledge that the impeachment was legitimate. So, so much for convicting but not removing him which would be the ideal outcome. Then we, the voters, could deal his final disposition in November.
3
Following the 'action' on NPR for the last two days leaves me awestruck. Dumbstruck! With the exception of Schiff, all those speaking from both sides of the aisle are just looking for camera time; some even repeat that which was previously covered by their counterpart, going over the same lame opinions or reasons brought up on many news and talk shows. But Schiff? Every word from his mouth drips with fake sincerity and passion; he injects words into testimony not spoken by a witness or by the president. Today he injected Trump's joke about Russia finding Hillary's missing emails and yet when he "read" the phone transcript and injected his own words (which many in the press ran with) he said it was a parody. One cannot have it both ways. Schiff is now trying to save face; save his reputation. He looks and sounds foolish.
This trial is serious. But in my mind is has become a sideshow. One that began long before the election.
4
Sarge, I suppose you thought Jordan was very thoughtful and Nunes was really concerned during the House hearings?
6
This is really a continuation of the civil war. They southern states and the extremist christianist evangelicals are cloaking their racism and xenophobia as “theology wrapped in a flag.” I fear Trump has unleashed the most virulent form of hatred and fear have that always had an undercurrent in America society. This won’t end with Trump. Domestic terrorism is here.
15
Cheating, lying, obfuscation, racism, fraud- Trump keywords all. And Republicans support and enable him because? He’s their meal ticket back to the days of slavery, no vote for women, Gilead in America.
9
As an outsider, I am astounded at how so many Americans do not consider their democracy. environment, social programs and rights at risk.
17
@pealass
I’m an “insider.” We’re astounded, too.
Our country has problems. We face serious challenges that require immediate attention. But climate change, out of control health care costs, the polarization of wealth, electoral reform, etc. take a back seat to coping with our unbalanced president and his loyal see no/hear no/speak no evil followers.
It’s a worrisome time for us.
8
Read this comment: KMW says "This testimony is so boring... We keep hearing the Democrats repeat the same things over and over again. I will never vote for a Democrat after seeing this spectacle on television."
That inane reasoning is exactly why this country is in trouble. All our citizens want are short sound bites for tiny little attention spans. Benjamin Franklin said “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” Seems no one wants to take the time to concentrate and do some critical thinking. No wonder we are headed the way of the Iron Curtain because we are abdicating our responsibility to be a part of this democracy.
23
The House Managers can make the strongest case in the world, smoking non-delivered guns and all.
But the most critical figure here, in terms of ultimate upshot, is likely senator "who's-my-mitch" McConnell, whose partisanship isn't any more subtle that the defense team's.
As the evidence piles up, becoming more indisputable, will all the other Republican mitchkins continue to follow their boss lockstep?
5
@Anon: They have all the solidarity of people motivated by fear of hanging separately if they don't hang together.
6
Why aren't the Democrats emphasizing that holding up aid for the Ukraine benefitted Putin and the Russians, who had helped Trump win in 2016 and on whom he was counting for help in 2020?
4
Is anything else happening in the world? We'll never know. It's impossible to get news on the cable channels other than the live wall-to-wall coverage of the impeachment. At this point, I don't care whether Trump is removed or not, I just want it to be over so I never have to see Adam Schiff's visage again.
5
I was watching the Democratic case in the hearing on MSNBC this afternoon and I switched over to Fox News to see if they were airing it as well. Nope.
4
Obviously he’s guilty as charged of this and other crimes. Obviously he will not be removed from office. Just remember, Republicans, what goes around comes around. Stay in your seats and remain quiet when a Democratic president overreached. It will happen. And our country will be a worse place for it.
6
Republican Senators may be silent but there are Sounds of that Silence that are clearly discernible, i.e. people hearing without listening.
3
@Jay Orchard
Furthering your poetic source:
A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest
(from a much later album). The USA right now needs a bridge over troubled waters. 16000 provable lies have gone under that bridge.
4
And from an even later song from the same source (50 Ways to Leave Your Lover): Out on your rump, Trump.
2
The bloviating Democrats seem to have overlooked the fact that the average voter has tuned them out. The progressive wing of the party will hang on to every syllable, but they're not converting any independents with their oratory. If they've got a case, then make it. Right now they're competing with Wheel of Fortune and losing badly.
13
Therein lies the problem, the president’s abuse of power for personal political gain cannot be compared to the Wheel Of Fortune. It’s daft.
You won’t be coming back next week!
3
It’s amazing to me, how you guys seem to know what all of America is thinking so fast. Me, I can hardly keep track of the neighbors’ campaign signs.
2
I get the feeling that the House managers are going to end up feeling like Atticus Finch at the end of the day.
A glaring error in Schiff’s otherwise excellent presentation: his statement that we are accustomed to each generation enjoying more freedom than its predecessor. To the contrary, for the past century liberty has been on the run, as government has assumed ever greater power over every aspect of our lives.
7
@Ken M.: Population growth makes it harder for people to avoid stepping on each other's toes. Technology has complicated repercussions.
4
One of many glaring errors.
1
@Ken M. Liberty has, in fact, actually been strengthened by the expansion of the federal government over the past century - for Southern African Americans, for women seeking reproductive health, for same-sex couples, and for many more individuals.
2
It's time to share "the material."
5
"I just hope the rich white guy wins and I don't care how," chant 43 million Americans.
"I just I can become a rich white guy," chant the 46 million.
I just wish Nixon were here to see this and hear his comments on FoxNews and read his column among these papers.
2
Cheat in an election? That's rich.
Yes. Trump did cheat. In 2016, when he committed a felony by paying unreported hush money to Stormy Daniels. Why isn't this in the articles of impeachment? Could it be that Democrats would rather not shine a light on how money and politics intermingle because it might just make them look bad and hypocritical? We'll probably never know, but to let the president get away with a slam-dunk felony makes campaign finance law a total joke.
4
Republicans not only want the American people to believe they may be evil but prove that they are evil by making a mockery of our Constitution and our democracy.
4
During this somber, sober, historic impeachment hearing, what is the guy in the WH ("leader of the free world") doing? Manically tweeting like a deranged 15 year old. And this is the person every Republican Senator is mindlessly defending.
Utterly surreal.
41
Val Demings, I love you. You are a gift from God, come to help save our country from the greedy and corrupt, to bring about justice for all.
You are exactly what we need, and hopefully more elected officials, and more American citizens, will arise and proclaim, "Enough!! This is the end of the greedy and the corrupt power grab of (what could be) our free and just country."
6
As a lifelong Republican, even I think it’s obvious that Trump would cheat and break election laws. Trump used his “university” to cheat kids out of their money. He used his “foundation“ to cheat on taxes. He repeatedly cheats on his wife/family. Trump cheats Americans daily by selling our country through his resorts. Just look at the evidence past and present. You can bet your life that Trump is guilty as sin regarding Ukraine!
41
Indeed, Rep. Schiff bordered on being eloquent in his two and a half hours.
Honest, well spoken, with the nerve to interlace real facts.
But ...
Trump's team could present their "defense" in about 5 minutes.
Well, the [edited] "transcript" doesn't prove anything.
And even if he was talking about corruption [in Ukraine, not at 1600] it had nothing to do with politics.
And who is that whistle blower? Why is [s]he so afraid to come out?
And all those other people are only second hand.
And we are entitled to hold back tens of thousands of pages of potential evidence, and make the Democrats fight for years, up to the SCOTUS, to get a witness, one by one.
And it all doesn't matter, since he can do whatever he wants.
Like, our past statements and standards have been looked at, and we were incorrect.
Since ... that's what he tells us lemmings to say.
3
Why only water and milk in the Senate? I really wanna know.
2
Trump believes that executive privilege means he is above the law. McConnell and all of his feckless GOP Senate compatriots share this belief in their efforts to protect Trump no matter what it means to the future of this nation, no matter how much damage they are doing to the American people. In a very clear sense, their overt obstruction of justice makes them all traitors to the Constitution of the United States.
18
@Jackson Trump has said he could kill someone on Fifth Avenue and no one would do anything about it. How is that not equivalent to being above the law?
2
@Jackson
Trump believes in one thing it is true: Trump and his right to be considered a god-king by his cult..that includes being above the law.
1
@Inky Thank you. Trump cultists only believe in their god-king Donald. Not in law and order.
1
“President Trump withheld hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid to a strategic partner at war with Russia to secure foreign help with his re-election. In other words, to cheat.”
Democrats have achieved escape velocity and are in earth orbit.
6
Witness testimony and evidence? Yesterday the Democrats droned on for literary hours complaining there was no witness testimony and evidence.
8
I'm happy that Republicans are finally having to sit quietly, without their cell phones, to hear the case against Trump. My guess is that most of them have never actually seen or listened to the detailed charges and overwhelming evidence (except for distorted Fox News talking points). I don't think it will change many votes, but I hope it will at least cause them to squirm in their seats and feel a modicum of guilt and regret for what they are doing.
26
They can’t do that, apparently.
1
Thank you House Managers. I am doing my part by calling and emailing my Senators asking them to vote to allow evidence to be presented. Please people you do the same!
42
@Cathy I did!
4
The repubs have the numbers to block impeachment, but the democrats should continue because it is their duty, and every shred of evidence will be analyzed, recorded and saved for the future.
Of course the repubs will stick with Trump; are you surprised?
Remember their primaries 3+ years ago? He did and said horrible, unimaginable things, verbal abuse against various individuals accompanied by smug bragging. Classic bully / coward. And he spoke to huge adoring crowds of unemployed and otherwise victimized mainly white people, lying about all he would do for them.
Not one republican criticized his behavior. They had no choice; Trump’s fans, 35% of Americans, are 85% of the republican party, and no candidate challenged Trump. Shrugging, they yoked themselves to his nomination, and have been ‘all in’ since.
Whatever it’s outcome the impeachment process will hasten the republican demise. Their flimsy defense of Trump is proof; they don't respond to the charges, but demean the democrats for bringing the charges.
Unless our democracy is totally broken, Trump will not be re elected. But we have 10 months during which whatever lies, falsehood, and manipulation imaginable will be used.
He desperately needs re election in the belief that as president he is immune to the fed, state, and local charges awaiting him. Whatever happens to Trump, in the 2002 elections their cowardice will cost the republicans.
11
As I drove home with my sick cat next to me, tears streaming down my face as I thought about what the vet had said, I turned on the radio. What I heard was Schiff’s voice, laying out the case for Trump’s conviction. It was the most soul-calming thing I had experienced all day: the judicious voice of reason, reasonable and logical, serious and thoughtful and unwavering in its call for justice. There are still some people in this government we can be proud of.
56
Never before have so many powerful words been said to so many people with so little chance that they will have any actual effect on anyone.
22
Repeated, irrefutable, cold hard fact and truth. It’s all there: Trump’s laughably false concerns about Ukrainian corruption, getting Yovanovitch out of the way, weakening a bourgeoning democracy thereby aiding Russia, Giuliani running around doing the President’s bidding like an itinerant Shakespearean villain, and soliciting the aid of a foreign nation for no other reason other than to help get himself reelected...
There is no way the Republicans can apprehend the information of the Democrats’ testimony as they just don’t and won’t vibrate on that frequency. And there is no way the Trump supporter will sit through this, despite what they may tell you. They will merely watch Fox News’ cut-up, one minute version followed by days of whitewashing and Maga-spin.
14
Watching as much of the proceedings as I can. The Democrats are doing a very good, reasoned job of presenting the evidence they have gathered and explaining why they would like to hear more testimonies although it is very obvious they have enough to remove Trump. Most (51%) voters want him gone even though it won't happen. Even more (65%) want to hear testimonies, at which point I would think they would want him gone also. McConnell has every reason to not want the public to hear any more than the bare minimum of evidence. Unfortunately for him, they've heard a lot already - if they'll listen.
Keep talking, Democrats, although it must seem like you're continually outlining the same evidence. You're doing it for an audience that contains people that don't want to hear what you have found out. Continue being as eloquent as you can - more than truth is needed.
Also, Trump is just a pimple. We have a lot of big battles to fight, the main one being destruction of the environment. While Trump and the Republicans hold onto their diminishing power, the climate rages. We now have a new, dangerous virus to contend with, although I doubt Trump will acknowledge its existence. The world is quickly becoming much, much more dangerous. A smart, caring leader is needed quickly.
11
Trump was speaking over in Switzerland and said i would like to be in the first row at my trial staring at the Dems . He was called profoundly immoral by the Evangelicals recently because of his trying to destroy our Democracy with Russias help in the election and this time Ukraine. No one has ever said any thing bad about our Democratic leaders only Trump. I for one am tired of him daily putting us Dems down and if he gets elected instead of jail time we will really be polarized even more. What is wrong with his supporters and church officials who will allow this immoral injustice to continue. How about an answer now.
10
How about 1) MLB vacate the 2017 Houston Astros world series title and 2) President Trump be removed from office. Russia does enough cheating (in sports and other areas) for all the other nations on the planet; there's no reason for the U.S. to tolerate that kind of behaviour. That's not us.
6
I still haven't heard one trump supporter explain why, if he is so innocent, he wouldn't want as much evidence and testimony as possible in the trial.
Instead he and his cult are blocking witnesses from testifying and withholding evidence. That right there says everything you need to know about how guilty he is.
14
Peggy Lee had a popular song back in the 70’s titled “Send in the Clowns.” As the last line of that song goes “Don’t bother they're here.” That pretty much sums up this whole process. I don’t like Trump, but these clowns are wasting our time all for purely political reasons. If I am not mistaken, there is a Presidential election in less than ten months. Let the voters decide. Why not focus on some legislation? That, after all, is why they were elected.
3
@T Smith The House has passed over 400 bills, 250 of them bi-partisan, and sent them to the Senate where they languish on McConnell's desk. The Democrats can walk and chew gum. The GOP has done nothing except say, "no" to the people and ram through lifetime appointments of unqualified idealogues to the Judiciary. Standing up for the Constitution is never a waste of time. The balance of power, checks and balances, and accountability to taxpayers are at stake. Trump has violated the public trust numerous times. As a taxpayer, if that doesn't move you, well, you must like your pockets picked.
4
"Why not focus on some legislation?" The problem is there WAS legislation passed to provide military aid to an ally nation (Ukraine) and that legislation was ignored by the President and used as a quid pro quo to taint the next election. That's a corrupt President.
5
The Democrats already called their witnesses.
They already made their charges.
They already had them approved by a majority vote in the House.
If the Democrats had a decent case it would be easy for them to now present that evidence to the Senate.
Instead they have to go back three years to quote stuff not even part of the impeachment articles the House approved.
Pretty much propaganda instead of facts related to their articles.
Which is not helping convince anyone to remove Trump.
9
@Dr. John
“Which is not helping to convince anyone to remove Trump.”
It’s truly amazing, D.J., that you’ve been able to check in with EVERYONE during the last few hours.
So no one was convinced, huh?
That’s astounding!
4
Having followed Adam Schiff closely since the House impeachment, I am amazed at his stamina, intelligence, knowledge, grace, sincerity, generosity, and his ability to articulate for the public Trump’s actions and words and other pertinent information.
I hope that the media will begin recognizing Adam Schiff for being an honorable prosecutor. Trump and his minions have so far dominated the neon with their trashing of Mr. Schiff.
23
I feel so bad for the democrats...not...the people they have as the prosecutors of the case, Adam Schiff and the others look like absolute fools that are beating a dead horse...we've heard the same arguments over and over for the last month...it's nauseatingly boring...the democrats never had a case and just repeating it over and over does not make it a credible case...what this whole episode by the democrats does do is make them look very bad and will make the president get reelected for sure...sorry dems but you have lost this round...wait until 2024 for your next chance...
6
Sorry if it disrupts your prime time viewing. Convoluted, tedious, and boring? Yes, but there is solid evidence to sift through and serious allegations of law breaking by the president. Let’s get on with it.
7
Boring = not guilty. OK.
5
One reason we don't really follow the law in the U.S. is that historically we've shown that basically the system has always been corrupt, so the complicit dare not exercise justice and speak truth to power.
We stand on top of the bones of tens and tens of millions indigenous natives, later imported African slaves, and now we routinely assassinate civilians, overthrow any government that doesn’t bow to us, and reduce ancient civilizations to rubble. War crimes are a national pastime for our Presidents.
When you start out immoral and refuse to confess and make right, then you spend the rest of time preserving and trying to justify lies and fake god$, so we can also continue to spread it around the world to all living things.
That’s what this impeachment trial is all about.
Continue to pretend we are somehow the good guys, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
7
I hope Adam Schiff isn't hiding anything in his closet because it is all going to come out in Trump's second term.
Good luck going forward,
5
@KMW in NYC: Holding the president accountable for dishonesty is a “farce” in your mind? How dear do you hold our democracy? Democracies die in ignorance. Let’s be strong together. The details, as in any trial, may be tedious but they are necessary and are not just there to pass the time. KMW, as hard as it may be, please don’t give up on democracy at work.
10
Would help the cause of truth & reason if the Democrats could get fired up!
2
This whole impeachment is a joke. Trump will be acquitted and the Dems will cry their tears. I fully expect the House to impeach him again just because they can.
9
Jeez, I wonder if Adam would have said the same thing if Hillary had won the election back in 2016. She cheated by hiring a foreign agent to dig up dirt, any dirt whether true or false, from the Russians so she could use it to win an election. Fortunately her cheating was to no avail as respects the election, but look at all the wonderful things that have come out of her efforts.
10
I voted for Hillary, but if she “did” (you guys have a way of supplanting accusation with guilt), I would support impeachment for her. Of course the big distinction is that she’s not president, so she can’t be accused of such crimes as Trump has been.
1
@philly
And by "cheating" you mean that her campaign hired a licensed and reputable opposition research firm that had already been hired by a Republican campaign to create a dossier on Trump.
And this firm testified under oath before Congress that it followed all laws and ethical standards in creating this dossier.
That "cheating"?
6
@James Constantino
Yes, hiring an English spy, whether reputable or not, to dig up dirt from the Russians to win an election is cheating. And the Democrats passed around the dossier in DC like it was lobbyist money, not the Republicans who shelved the project.
What would NOT be boring is if Bolton could speak. Alas, his book deal awaits. Then we’ll all realize, too late, that justice was not served.
3
One of the most revealing moments of the Senate proceedings of the Watergate hearings was when a witness pleaded the Fifth in response to a question.
Sam Ervin, in the voice of Moses throwing down the stone tablets in anger shouted, "You don't plead the Fifth! You tell the Americans what you did! Start talking!"
And in response the the plain speaking North Carolina senator, that witness started talking.
How far America has fallen! We can't even get a witness.
20
As I watch the opening arguments my Democrats have shown some genius.
With each video clip of previous testimony - under oath - the Democrats are in fact placing witnesses, documents and evidence in front of the Senate.
Every Senator has to watch and listen. Non of them can claim I was too busy to .......
How will the gop rebut the evidence of the criminal and corrupt actions by this disgraced and disgraceful president, donald trump.
21
Can you imagine the humiliation for the Democrats if the Republicans allowed witnesses, like Bolton, to be called and they all supported Trump's assertion of having done nothing wrong? Why would they ever pass up such an opportunity unless they already know that the witness testimony would do no such thing?
11
Republicans misunderstand the intentions of those who want the truth uncovered. It would lighten my heart if trump were shown to be working for the good of America. One wonders though. If any witness could exonerate him, why would trump go so far out of his way to silence them? Logic tells me that if there was any evidence of trump’s innocence he wouldn’t obstruct justice to hide it.
14
This morning, Manager Schiff laid out the best case for removing President Trump. It took about an hour.
The managers should have stopped there. But they're going on and on, repeating already thrice-told facts and allegations.
Less is more and more is less. Good lawyers know that if you can't present an argument in an hour or less, your approach is flawed.
As for the substance, I am convinced that President Trump committed the bad conduct of which article 1 accuses him. In isolation, it's grounds for removal.
But I can't look at events in isolation.
First, certain Democratic House members have campaigned since Mr. Trump's inauguration that he should be impeached, and almost all agree that he is a usurper. That taints the proceedings.
Second, the voters knew who Mr. Trump was when they elected him: sleazy, underhanded, unprincipled; also desirably revolutionary, a Jacobin. They have what they wanted in part and were willing to tolerate in part. So removing Mr. Trump is tantamount to undoing the 2016 election. Polls claiming to show that a slim majority wants him removed should be viewed with skepticism, given recent polling prediction debacles.
Third, the moral imperative for impeachment and removal is undermined by the Bidens' more routine political corruption—i.e., Biden Jr. trading on Biden Sr.'s office and Biden Sr. doing nothing about it.
5
@Cyclist all 3 Trump talking points, all lies.
5
@Cyclist
"The managers should have stopped there. But they're going on and on, repeating already thrice-told facts and allegations."
The Democrats are entering into the public record all material that they are presenting. Historians and students of history, years from now, will see and study what has happened here at this impeachment. In hindsight historians will see how this impeachment impacted the future of the United States.
How will they judge Republicans? Maybe 100 years from now, when pondering that Republicans refused to call or allow witnesses, they will see the roots of the demise of the Republican party, or even, the demise of our democracy.
4
We owe Ukraine and Mr. Zelensky an apology. This is our mess.
We were supposed to care about them and be a help.
14
The impeachment trial of Trump is a reminder of how much trouble we are in as a nation. The Republican controlled Senate will not remove him from office. It is doubtful that they will hold him accountable for any wrong doing at all.
Since it is a forgone conclusion that Trump will remain in office for at least another year, the last great hope for the survival of democracy in the United States as we have come to know it will depend on the American people exercising their right to vote at the ballot box. Even there, the actions by Republicans at the State level over at least the last decade has corrupted the process to the point that nationwide, millions of voters have been purged from eligibility rolls or disenfranchised by others means, effectively silencing their voices.
And, of course, there is the constant threat of foreign interference. On national television, Trump has said he would accept such help and has openly encouraged other nations to do so while he talked to reporters.
As reviled in the Muller Report, the Russians did actually interfere in the 2016 election to help Trump. While the help was supposedly limited to a robust social media campaign, can the average citizen or technology expert for that matter say with absolute confidence that the Russians did not change actual vote tallies. Afterall, any computer hacker with enough sophistication to breach organizational serves can change data if that is the end goal. The Russians will be back.
10
@Dearson
I don't get the problem with Russia "interference". They set up a few social media accounts and targeted voters. Boo Hoo, all countries do that.
The US does that to every other country in the world, they are just much more subtle about it.
What the "Russia interference" brouhaha has done is created a nemesis out of Russia and pushed it squarely into China's arms.
2
At a time in America when there is breathtaking disinterest in objective evidence, I am flummoxed by dem senators' attempts to present evidence to Americans. Play Mozart to a empty seats, exhibit fine art in a fully darkened room in which there is no one - it is just as futile, but you won't be angry.
The majority of the electorate that matters is chortling over yet another cruelty and absurdity of Trump/Trumpistas. Those on center and left are patiently waiting to cry until well after the milk has been spilled for the perfect Instagram moment.
Ironic that this reality is produced by the American left and their most effective subversives: the humanities educators in our 1500 colleges. Their gospel of science as superstition, reasoning as dangerous, and the denial of objective truths has begat this reality. I suspect most American intellectuals will now call for a compromise; Trump agrees to defile America only on alternate days - and sacrifice half of his potential; the democrats get to return to their internecine warfare and to eat their young only four days a week. We all win.
1
The impeachment of Nixon, Iran-Contra, Clinton and now Trump's impeachment are all related to decades of insidious security state machinations tied to US imperialism and neoliberalism.
The intelligence agencies use the threat of impeachment as leverage to ensure the continuation of military interventions in the Middle East, Eastern Europe, and Africa as well as the implementation of extremely exploitative economic policies in the US and abroad transferring enormous wealth to Wall Street, the big banks and the arms industry.
Presidents don't get impeached or investigated for "committing social crimes" against the working-class, they're only investigated when they lose favor with factions of the security state and the ruling class.
They are always internecine battles between segments of the military/surveillance/corporate state.
If that was NOT the case, then Clinton, Bush, and Obama would have been impeached for war crimes. Trump, would be impeached not for his Ukraine phone call, but for his policies that resulted in the death of migrant children, the corruption within federal agencies, the deregulation of the EPA etc.
The only thing that's changed over the last four decades is that the security state is now fully partnered with corporate mainstream media news and entertainment. They work seamlessly to propagandize the American public so that even liberals are convinced that being a Joe McCarthyite Russophobe is progressive.
Why not impeach Trump for murdering Soleimani ?
6
On Monday you have thousands, maybe tens of thousands of loosely-organized, right wing, heavily armed paramilitary group members threatening civil disorder by the shear fact that they show up at a state capital in deadly force, under the guise of protecting their rights, and the same Republican Party that we expect to be fair and judicial fully support these insurgents. How can anyone believe these Senators will have an open mind to anything that has the appearance of constitutional justice?
8
@Floyd I do not recall hearing about any problems at the demonstration. Most, though not all, of the people are better disciplined than their opposition.
4
Trumps mind-bending ignorance has finally infected the constitutional, legislative body.
Absurdly, eventhough being a democratic process, with every minute more into this, we’re witnessing a grave shift of the office of the President of the United States towards an autocratic rule — a perversion of what the Founding Fathers intended impeachment to be.
Thanks to 53 Senat Republicans, reality has become an obsolete concept down to the core of the constitution as facts, evidence and the rule of law do not longer weigh more than perception along party lines.
8
There may be confusion and, yes, even boredom over legalities; however, one thing for which I am absolutely certain: Mitchel McConnell and his band of traitorous, back-stabbing republicans must all go, and I pray that it’s not necessary to have to explain this to anyone.
19
It’s all a great big nothing. Nothing. Politics is all about having the votes, and the Democrats don’t have them. End of story.
8
They are making their case in the court of public opinion. Don’t know if you are aware but there is an election coming up in November. And there’s history and a sense of duty to consider as well. Sometimes you prosecute your case just because it’s the right thing to do.
10
@Larry And in the end the Republicans will never get my vote. They will be labeled as the most unethical and ignorant government officials our America has had to endure. And in the end, it has exhibited how many ignorant Americans still support the jokester called Trump.
4
The "whataboutism" in many of these comments is striking. But it's also nonsense.
Trump is unlike anyone who his come before him, except perhaps Nixon. He runs the presidency like a criminal mob boss. He lies constantly. He makes personal money at his properties from the presidency on a weekly basis. And he asks foreign governments ("Russia, if you're listening...") to interfere with our elections.
Any complaints of how "the Democrats did it too" are transparent and laughable.
27
Trumps defense... "Get your facts first, then you can distort them as much as you please." - Mark Twain.
The House got some, but not all the facts and the Trump lawyers are just spinning them any way they want.
Roberts is probably baffled by the defense's three ring circus and ready to knock heads.
4
It’s good the the rarefied Republican Senators get a dose of reality and some of their own medicine. So very, very sorry Senator Cornyn got his feelings hurt.
They are not being deliberative. What’s occurring in the Senate is a bare minimum, flimsy response to egregious and impeachable behavior by the president.
They are not earnest. They didn’t even want to admit House evidence into the official senate record. They want no direct evidence of the actions for which the president was impeached.
They are not impartial. They have already made up their minds to acquit the president based on their own selfish political needs.
What other term would you use for an elected government official willingly and with great haste attempting to cover up criminal actions by the president? Actions that are a flagrant abuse of power and include conspiring with a foreign government for personal gain and failure to uphold the constitution?
Treason does leap to mind.
16
Treason. That’s still a high crime, right? Unless you are a Republican, I guess.
3
So Politicians llike to give speeches? Who knew?
As Trump will probably not get kicked out of office, the Democrats are also handing him the 'impeachment bump' to him on a silver platter.
As the majority of Americans are not paying that much attention (who listens to politicans and lawyers anyway), and the 'so called trial' will not result in much justice for anyone.
Meanwhile, the real reasons we send folks to Congress - improving education, the enviroment, public safety, helping the homeless and so gets placed on the back burner while the wind bags drone on (yes, I'm looking at you Adam).
6
@Jon I would include defending the Constitution as well, unless you support the President using congressionally appropriated funds to leverage a foreign country's investigation of a political rival.
14
Everyone on Trump's team is compromised or have been bribed. He's great at that. Been doing it for decades. Just wait.
8
Adam Schiff is earning himself a place in history as one of our nations greatest And most passionate Defenders of democracy.
49
@Robert O. - Schiff will barely be a footnote in history. The story will be Trump getting re-elected after being impeached.
12
House Democrats are talking to the camera, not the Senate.
They are campaigning - instead of dealing with their articles. Going back to stuff from three years ago not related to this impeachment is counterproductive and damaging an already weak case.
The House Democrats are giving Senators - even some Democratic Senators - real reason to get this over with as soon as possible.
8
Since they are not calling witnesses, how should they present the case? Rules set by the majority.
12
@Dr. John
Some weak case. The weak case is the floundering attempt by the already impeached president's lying lawyers to defend the indefensible. To Trump cultists: if you don't like democracy there are plenty of countries you can move to that do not have it.
3
Well it seems to be true. Laws and taxes are for "the little people". No reason to burden the rich and powerful with such trivialities.
9
A GOP “juror” lashes out at Schiff and calls it a partisan charade via social media during the trial; the GOP senators are unabashedly aligned with Trump’s defence team; the GOP force biased procedure and put forward every obstacle possible. How does all of this not amount to treachery?
And the GOP, having told Senator Warren to shut up on the senate floor now cries for expected “civility.”
RIP constitutional democracy and accountability.
16
Maybe the Chief Justice should dismiss everyone who have stated their verdict before the trial.
6
Drinking a Bombay Sapphire Martini*
Watching the trial.
Reading the posts.
It might be the Gin talking, but I can't see how trump can survive this.
*(3 parts Gin, 1 part French Vermouth, shaken until ice cold, served with 3 olives)
14
@rslay Unfortunately, it will probably go down just like Bush v Gore, with a lawless decision that will favor the Republican.
1
@rslay If this blather is all they have have then he will not be removed from office and will be Re-elected. The later will be because of the ham-handed way the Dems handled this.
2
@T Smith
I will take that bet on re-election.
Democrats, Independents, College age, Middle age, Advanced age, Latinos, Women, Mothers Suburbians...the number of people who don't like trump is long and distinguished. Remember 2018?
2
I watched all of the live testimony in the House Committees last year. So I am quite familiar with that evidence. But it was not easy to keep track of the timeline and understand the importance of some of the information. Now other pertinent evidence has come forward, but we need all relevant documents and witnesses to complete the picture.
I have been watching all of Senate trial this week, and now those testimonies are being used very effectively to lay out the case — without any grandstanding from the Senators.
I commend the House managers for putting together such a clear timeline and for compiling such a compelling case!
71
There must be silence on the floor but you can use social media to create noise? How distracting to the actual testimony and impeachment process. Just one more thing for the media to latch onto while ignoring the facts presented in the actual case.
1
Trump says "read the transcript, it was a perfect call" and "the phone call transcript was verbatim" [my quotes}. Several GOP trial managers have already claimed "there was no Quid Pro Quo" based on the transcript. Yet the transcript takes 10 minutes to read and the phone call lasted 30 minutes. The transcript contains ellipses and is considered to be a "rough transcript". It seems this impeachment trial is solidly based on the contents of this July 25 phone call's transcript. If the full transcript of this phone call cannot be obtained and introduced as evidence, all arguments in this trial are severely compromised.
6
There is a lot of testimony from those directly involved, should we just ignore them?
Thank you Team Democrats. No matter the initial outcome. You are doing an outstanding job. May the ethical position and the justice of your mission in your battle for our country gives you unflagging stamina and focus. Your presentation, use of graphics and videos is nailing the truth. Bless you all, America’s patriots march on. America’s vision holds strong with the reflection of your team represents today’s America. What a lesson for our children.
33
I just heard that trump again tried to claim he would be happy to allow those who work on his staff testify, wait for it, BUT I need to protect the office of the President. Of course he means he needs to protect #1. Folks lets get real, if trump could have stopped his Impeachment in the House, he would have. Sorry its not anyone's fault but his, he can't even blame the Bidens. There is an old saying "Silence is Golden", trump should have chosen to be very loud, if he was indeed innocent and it was the perfect phone call. No matter what the Senate does, the House got it right!!
9
Schiff is inspiring. I want him to run for President.
34
@E Yes, just what we need. Another liar.
1
@T Smith
Trump is obviously a pathological liar. But he’s terrible at keeping his lies straight, and gets caught all the time.
I see Adam Schiff as an honest, trustworthy man. If he’s a liar, he’s a very good one. As things stand, I believe him, trust him and respect him.
I would vote for Adam Schiff.
I wouldn’t shake Trump’s hand.
3
I'm weary of the pretense that Collins, Murkowski, Romney, or that other pretender are going to step up and do the right thing. We get it, they want to secure their reelections. They do the Big Fake every time an important and controversial vote looms over them. How about the press stops giving them undeserved credit that will potentially confuse their voters?
30
When is Twitter not going to be assaulted as a terrorist, or at least truth altering app? By allowing speech (yes, that's what it is) without verification of veracity, the app has become the home of hate speech, whether it comes from the White House or the depths of depravity. Please, STOP!
6
Apparently, as long as a REPUBLICAN president is corrupt, lies constantly, kisses up to N. Korea & Putin, brags about grabbing women - just to name very few - it's ok. We have nothing to fear from foreign terrorists and everything to fear from the gop.
16
@sofedup. I disagree! I think foreign terrorists are a threat, but at this moment the GOP and domestic terrorists that often support the GOP are much more of a threat to the Republic than anything else in the history of the nation.
Both last night and right now (4:50), Jason Crow has done a superlative job of bringing abstract and often arcane issues back to the people who must live with DJT's catastrophic actions (never policies; he simply lurches from self-interested act to act, always solely on his own behalf).
Crow has invited us to visualize the young Ukrainian soldiers who have died in the line of duty. 13,000 dead soldiers --many with nothing more than sneakers and sweatshirts for uniforms--and hundreds of thousands displaced from their homes are the real collateral damage of this debacle. We should never be allowed to forget that.
This GOP would have us believe that this is a petty partisan matter cooked up by Dems to embarrass the "president" and waste their time. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Full credit to Crow and the other Dems who keep quietly insisting that we do a real accounting for the full costs--human ones--of DJT's selfish, criminal behavior.
Frankly, we should shun those who carry water for and endorse this behavior. They are beneath contempt.
29
53-47
That Republican majority sounds the death knell of our constitutional democracy unless, unless the majority party in the Senate, Senator McConnell and Mr.Trump are swept out of office in 2020. It won’t erase the stain in our history of the GOP’s betrayal, but it may mark the renaissance of our country, flaws included.
Many of us have stopped watching the proceedings. It’s simply too painful. Too painful to hear the evidence and arguments put forward by the Democratic House managers and recalling the powerful, credible and vivid sworn testimony provided by the courageous, honorable persons in the House. Too painful to hear
the misrepresentations of the president’s lawyers, as they belittle their adversaries who outmatch them in every way. Too painful to watch McConnell obstruct justice and violate his oath.
And too painful to see the once august body who I worshipped as a kid betray our country and their own sense of right and wrong.
53-47.
We may indeed lose our republic if we the people don’t oust these scoundrels and criminals. Count on it!
12
Sondland said it best
“ everyone was in the loop “
26
The grandstanding by Adam Schiff is such a turnoff.
Schiff, who personifies the link between foreign policy hawks and defense contractors, is completely compromised due to his support of the illegal Ukraine coup and his personal profiting of this coup. As were most of the witnesses in the House inquiry.
The biggest crime in this story, the illegal overthrow of the sovereign government of Ukraine, isn’t being told by the MSM, although it should, since it is the origin of both Russiagate, the ensuing McCarthyism 2.0, and now Impeachment.
Since entering Congress in 2002, Congressman Schiff hasn’t met a war he didn’t like. He has backed every military action the US has been involved in from Iraq to Yemen, Libya, Syria, etc.
The US arms industry has rewarded Schiff handsomely, accounting for over one-sixth of Schiff’s total campaign donations.
His connections to Parsons Corp and Ukrainian billionaire arms dealer Igor Pasternak should certainly disqualify him from being part of this CIA-instigated impeachment farce.
6
@Chris: Trump boasts of investing $2 trillion in the US military over the last three years. If climate change won't divert US resources away from arms, nothing will.
@Chris
Where do you get your information or do you just make it up?
Suppose a Putin opposition party member was running against Putin and they said "hey America, dig up some dirt or emails on Putin and get back to us." What do you think would happen?
6
As I wrote before, Trump is a malignant tumor or call it cancer, Mitch McConnell and his ilk are the metastasis and, how I see it, it is unfortunately to late to cure this disease. This disease will kill this democratic Republic.
9
That Republican Senators are willingly giving away their power to the “stable genius” is absurd.
Just to keep their position they join the cult and sell out our country?
Just like Stevie Wonder sang: “You’ve killed all our leaders. I don’t even have to do nothing to you, you’ll cause your own country to fall.”
4
Schiff would not know the truth if it up and bit him!! As to cheating, the Lilly White Democrats
used the FBI to spy on Trump, circulated a fictions dossier on him, and at every turn manipulated the election process! Biden initially refused to take the stand during the impeachment process to discuss his role in the Ukraine. It’s beyond laughable.
9
@George
Please tell us how you got that information. Everything you said is just plain false.
1
@George. Have even listened to the case being laid out in the senate today?? Apparently not because if you had there is very little doubt.
@George: Rudy Giuliani probably got James Comey to elect Trump with timely use of Anthony Weiner's computer. Are you folks really as naive as your assertions indicate?
1
NYTimes commentary are almost always informed of the facts and observe rationally founded methods. I appreciate being part of the discussion about this weighty subject. The president and his entourage do not care one whit what I think about it, or even whether I vote. I know this by reflecting on this. That Trump did not care whether Ukraine actually carried out an investigation of the Biden’s; rather he cared only that such investigation was publicly announced on CNN. Evidently he thinks so little of people like me, a peon basically, that he and his administration believe an announcement exhausts all the understanding I need to have to turn my vote from one candidate to another. This is a very annoying thing about Trump and his supporters, that they believe, without ever meeting me even once, I am a stupid peon. Peon yes, stupid no. Convict that dictator and send his administration to jail with him!
4
This country started going downhill years ago; most likely around the Vietnam war. The imbalance of power and wealth, the blatant lies and corruption and the total lack of compassion and respect for our fellow Americans, let alone non-US citizens, is nothing short of, shall I say, deplorable.
With the election of this man, the single worst POTUS in history, and the inevitable pass he will get on his unabashed destruction of laws and our Constitution, will be one of the last nails in the coffin of democracy.
What is happening before our very eyes, in real-time, is the defeat of the United States of America.
This time.
This day
This moment.
These days will go down in history, alongside slavery, Post-Pearl Harbor concentration camps, Vietnam and the murders of JFK, MLK and RFK, as the worst in our history.
If this man is re-elected, our time as a nation is short lived, Like Rome and all other mighty empires, we will fall. It is not a matter of if, but when. The Republican party is doing what no foreign power, nuclear weapon or disease could do. And they are doing it in plain sight, without any guilt whatsoever.
I feel sad, truly sad for my kids and those who will come after us, long after we are dead and gone.
#TakeAmericaBack #VoteDemocrat
12
@Ben M . Best. President. In. My. Lifetime.
And he’ll win a 2nd term. Get a life. Get over it. Enjoy the times we live in.
5
Adam Schiff for President!
16
America do what’s right
6
Rome is burning.
10
Mitch McConnell and his rogue Senate are actually a greater threat to our Republic than Trump. McConnell began the slide away from democracy during Obama's last year, with his refusal to bring up and vote on Obama's SCOTUS nominee.
The Supreme Court, meanwhile, had usurped democratic powers earlier, in forbidding a recount in Bush v. Gore, thus deciding the election against Gore, who, it seems, would have won if there had been a recount.
Thus, Democrats have lost both two presidential terms and a Supreme Court seat to these two branches of government, neither of which represent the people. Red states are heavily overrepresented in both he Senate and the Electoral College. And, as a consequence, they are similarly overrepresented on the president-appointed Court.
Even the people's House is not representative due to Republican gerrymandering and disenfranchisement.
We must fight like Hell to win back the Senate, where the real power lies. It is even more important than the presidency.
8
There is one point here that the R’s have pinned their defense on, and that Dems screwed up on.
“If your case is so good, why do we need more discovery in the Senate?”
This is a lousy but brilliant statement that-in spite of all evidence to the contrary-will sink the House case.
They should have litigated discovery before transmission. And kept it all quiet in the process to avoid fatigue.
1
@B.T. No, it's actually a circular argument. When Trump obstructed the investigation by blocking witnesses, withholding documents, and not testifying himself, he can't then argue that discovery was insufficent. Trump's MO is to litigate cases until he runs out the clock. It's a legal delaying tactic he used to bilk his contractors out of paying his bills. Sorry, you can't have it both ways. If you think he cares about the average American, you are sadly mistaken. Just ask his former employees, contractors, partners, and oh, Michael Cohen.
1
The democratic house managers deserve a debt of gratitude from Americans. They are doing an outstanding job. My sincere thanks to them.
69
No objective person can listen to Adam Schiff’s factual presentation an still believe that Trump should remain in office. That Senate Republicans will not respond accordingly is nothing short of tragic. What we have long been taught about our democracy over our lifetimes and how we have been conditioned to view its permanence is looking more and more like a myth.
48
@Robert O.
But if you watch fox they are not me thing you hear what the house managers are saying. That is just plain scary.
1
For many Republicans in the Senate, this will be the first time they are hearing about Trump without the Fox News filter.
Will they listen?
Will they care?
Every American who doesn't submerge themselves in Fox News, knows Trump has obstructed.
Now, the GOP will have no excuse.
They can uphold Trump.
Or they can uphold the Constitution.
Voters will let Republicans know in November how they did.
25
@D. DeMarco
Too much to hope for... Fox isn't showing the Manager's case. They have one of their panals playing instead.
Yawn.
The Senate should send the House managers packing, and not even give them a sense that their efforts have any legitimacy.
6
Ignore the objective facts uncovered by the House, refuse to read the objective documents the White House is hiding, deny the Senate and the American people opportunity to objectively examine eyewitness testimony. As Gilbert and Sullivan would say, you’re the very objective model of a modern objectivist.
@objectivist. We know, we know... just like the senate republicans you would rather not hear any evidence that might implicate your fear leader. Better to stick your head in the sand.
You know, in terms of what will happen, there really is no doubt. Trump will get off because he's got the numbers, but what will be important is the story and how it is told by both sides. The dems are (notoriously) caught up in detail. I understand that usually, under normal circumstances, this is what you do at a trial. But here, knowing that the Republicans will simply lie their way through or minimize and relativize everything, it is not worth it. They should know that they are not speaking to Senators, but to the population that will vote in November. This is the real jury. Keep it at that level.
One question: What does it mean if Trump gets re-elected...? Fool me once...
2
Therein lies the problem of a trial in which 53% of the jurors have a clear conflict of interest:
House impeachment managers: Trump illegally solicited and accepted help from a hostile foreign power to win the last election and is doing it again in an attempt to get re-elected.
Republican voters: "Yeah - we're just fine with that."
10
To me, it’s very apparent that Trump is a Russian pawn thrown in to disrupt democracy and the American Political System.
Republicans are no more without removing Trump Putin’s puppeteers. The Republican Party will be remembered for bringing down the United States and frankly we can’t afford to get much any lower. Republican need to do the right thing, and we need to get a real President. Certainly one without a long wooden nose.
10
I'm all in for giving Donald Trump the perp walk out of the WH, but this charge, by Rep. Schiff, that Trump abused his authority by trying to rig or influence an election is rich coming from a party whose national committee entered into a secret agreement with the Hillary Clinton campaign to rig the Democratic primaries. I mean, it would almost be laughable if it were not so sad. It is amazing to listen to sanctimonious Democrats drone on and on and blabber about election integrity and the rule of law, when it was they who not only rigged the primaries but the Clinton campaign and the DNC was funding a report put together by a foreign spy who was in contact with Russians to influence a presidential election. The hutzpah of all of it is right out of the Onion.
7
@FXQ: Every somebody else did it first posting I read here lowers my opinion of the US. After graduation, adolescents are in charge for life here.
5
Not sure I follow your logic. Did the Clinton campaign or anyone associated with the Democratic Party subvert the machinery of the US government to elicit help from a foreign power to smear a political opponent and that too using the threat of withholding public funds that were duly appropriated by Congress. Your attempt at false equivalence falls pretty short.
7
@Steve Bolger
I just can't stand hypocrisy. To me it is worse than what the hypocrite is trying to point out at times. While yes, they may be pointing out a misdeed or misbehavior or whatever, the fact that they are doing it, knowing full well that they too have done so and failed to acknowledge it, to me makes what they say irrelevant. I want nothing to do with them. This the the problem with the Democratic Party in a nut shell. Yes, we are all well aware, the Republicans are horrible. I loath them to my core. But it disgusts me to watch hypocrites attempt to point out their loathsome behavior when they too are complicit in so much of their own loathsomeness.
I feel sorry for the Senators who are forced to sit there and listened to this. At least I can pick up the remote and change it to Jerry Springer
4
Watching this "trial" reminds me of the Lenny Bruce quip: "in the halls of justice, the only justice is in the halls."
What this means is that the truth will out, no matter the Senate outcome, which was pre-ordained not last week by McConnell, but following Robert Mueller's muddled report of Trump's involvement in Russian meddling and obstruction of efforts to ferret out indictable facts. That outcome emboldened our childlike President just as when, as a real estate developer, once he stiffed one contractor, he felt free to stiff them all.
How will the truth emerge? The Times. The Post. The WSJ. Reuters and Politico and other responsible news organizations (not Fox News, of course). It will also emerge from FOI requests, document leaks, and even published books by the John Bolton's of the world, whose desire to cash in on controversy "trumps" his duty to country.
Trump will huff and puff and claim complete exoneration, asserting with thrusting chin that "you can't touch me" as President. He wil have complete freedom to break any law, abuse any trust, and ignite mayhem and chaos abroad and at home. Perish the thought; Trump will think himself totally unbound
His base will believe him invincible, and will swoon in supplication. But they will be submerged by a wave of revulsion of Donald Trump and his Senate and House enablers in November. Justice will be served.
It must be the result. It's on us.
7
@PaulB67: They're counting on the fact that only one third of the senators stand for election this year and there's no way the Democrats will win enough seats to block filibusters. What a quaint system God wrought for the US.
2
The Democrats accusing others of cheating to steal an election.
What a joke.
DWS, the DNC, the Super Delegates and Hillary will forever be the moment when the USA turned into a 3rd World country Democracy.
7
@AutumnLeaf: It never ceases to amaze me how clueless some ostensible Democrats are about being backed by Republicans to lose.
1
@AutumnLeaf
No, it was the Sanders crowd that would not vote for Hillary. They did it.
We know, unfortunately, how this will end: Trump will be acquitted of wrongdoing, despite all of the factual evidence laid before the Congress and American public by the whistleblower and the many public servants who emerged from anonymity to take a stand for the truth. Trump bloviates his lies in Davos, where the rich and powerful seeking to rule the world lament climate change and where the most egregious offender against ecology blasts abusive tweets against our own Congress. Vote in November. Truly, the last election was the most important to date in my lifetime; the next one is literally climactic.
4
Enough with the sanctimony! Members of BOTH parties, each by varying degrees, are corrupt. They’re ALL opportunists. They ALL seek to enrich themselves while holding office. They ALL serve a political agenda or an aristocracy that, while benefiting themselves in some way, has nothing whatsoever to do with the best interests of the average American citizen...nor the best interests of our country.
Everybody knows this...which renders these proceedings...or more accurately, this performance...a joke. Unfortunately, the joke is on the American citizenry. Are we having fun yet?
4
However, only one person subverted the machinery of the US government to elicit help from a foreign power to smear a political opponent, withheld duly appropriated funds from Congress and obstructed an impeachment inquiry. Abuse of power on a grand scale.
4
@S.C.
Oh please. Hillary’s campaign did exactly the same thing and used allied government agencies to do it. Biden threatened to withhold aid to the Ukraine in a self-serving quid pro quo power play as well.
This is nothing more than the pot calling the kettle black. The hypocrisy is breathtaking...and the Democrats have consequently lost my vote.
3
@Susanna, I suspect Democrats never had your vote to begin with.
2
If I was a Republican Senator, I would be more worried about loosing my seat by going along with such coverup. If I was a Republican, I would vote for any Democrat in the next election and kick out the one that votes to allow for Trump to be in his job. The question is not about the constitution, its about our values and our children and the generations after us.
Schiff said it perfectly. I like that guy ! I can listen to him for hours because he upholds MY values ! Thanks Schiffy!
8
When half the country does not believe in truth or rule of law...it is all banana republic, all the time.
4
@Mogwai
Yes, it's ashamed that the Democrats have become so jaded. Let's vote for Bernie so we can truly have a banana republic all the time, just like Cuba, Venezuela, Chile, etc.
1
How can anyone not see that Trump DID put pressure on Ukraine ? It is like we were to England during the WWII? What if FDR had instead of inviting Churchill to the White House, who represented freedom loving peoples around the world, had invited Hitler or Mussolini, the authoritarian dictators? What would have happened had we not aided England with Lend Lease before we entered the war? Which side is America on now? Are we on the side of freedom loving peoples or authoritarians? Who is Trump supporting and aiding in the fight? This isn't just about his corrupt illegalities, but ALSO his favor towards those who we have always considered not supportive of freedom loving peoples around the world. Please Republicans make it clear that we still wish to be that 'city on the hill, beacon of liberty'. We want our country back. Justice must be served. The day of reckoning will come.
7
@GraceNeeded - FDR did not invite Churchill to the White House until after pearl harbor and Germany declared war on the USA. In his 1940 campaign, while Brtitain was standing alone, FDR promised Americans there sons would never go to war. We got attacked, so FDR did not go back on his promise, but that's is where FDR was.
1
There are now four branches of government: the Executive, Judicial, the House of Representatives and the Senate.
This is the America we live under Comrade Mitch.
5
How will this statement by Rep. Raskin be followed up on: "Cipollone must be forced by CJ Roberts to correct the record and apologize or face disbarment for brazen lack of candor to the tribunal in a legal proceeding. I was in nearly every deposition and the GOP Members were always present."?
https://mobile.twitter.com/RepRaskin/status/1219978171921182721
6
“For hour after hour, the president’s lawyers and their Republican allies are being forced to sit silent in their seats, listening to the most nefarious interpretations of Mr. Trump’s actions...”
CORRECTION:
“For hour after hour, the president’s lawyers and their Republican allies are being forced to sit silent in their seats, listening to the MOST ACCURATE AND ONLY LOGICAL INTERPRETATIONS of Mr. Trump’s actions...”
5
oh, the irony.
Hillary feeding the Steele dossier to friends in high places in order to sic agents on the Trump campaign was not "cheating"?
but, looking for actual corruption by the Biden family is "cheating"?
ok, got it.
no bias here, folks, all good and all intellectually honest in Democratic chambers.
6
It is true that Bolton has the power to shed new light in a press conference of his own at a time of his own calling. Such a moment of power for a mere ex administrative official only comes once in a great while. The temptation to do so will be weighed against his ability to sell more books if he remains silent. A key witness declaring a news briefing during a fully televised impeachment trial could get coverage on virtually every network.
The question speaks volumes as to what sort of hero does he want to be? The kind who shed light during a Senate trial bursting forth with key testimony about facts only he could share, being denied by the President and his cohorts. Once the trial is over and the President is acquitted, who is going to run out to buy the book.
There really are a lot of books. He could opt to hold out for movie rights at that point.
Timing is everything.
This testimony is so boring. I know it is not supposed to be entertainment but it is torture to listen to. We keep hearing the Democrats repeat the same things over and over again. I will never vote for a Democrat after seeing this spectacle on television. They have lost many supporters after this farce.
75
@KMW:
And we keep hearing the same things from the president. Everything is a witch hunt, everything is a lie, blah, blah, blah.
If the testimony is torture to listen to, don't listen. My God, this is a serious matter. But, instead you want reality tv?
451
@KMW: The Democrats have to repeat the truth over and over again, because the Republicans repeat their boring lies over and over again. The truth is never boring.
393
@KMW
This, ladies and gentleman, is how we got Trump. It's not about truth or what is good for the country, it's about entertainment.
425
If Schiff shows up and makes the case to the Senate that Trump “cheated” his way to the election, doesn’t he lose his credibility and facade of non-partisanship? It’s not even what this impeachment is about! I don’t know why he would expect the Senate to cooperate, or why he of all people gets to shame Susan Collins or anyone else to support his three year impeachment campaign.
7
@Alberto Abrizzi So you don't care for the truth? Trump is a cheater and con man. You can't sugar coat it.
5
Ernie, the “truth” correlates nearly perfectly with one attribute: Dem or Rep. No other predictive variables exist! Not one’s religion, age, legal background, study habits, Boy Scout pins predict how someone will vote on impeachment! This is all political, and the case against Trump isn’t strong enough to warrant impeachment, a clear and stated goal of the Dem pack since Day 1 of Trump’s election. Schiff is so smooth and articulate, so why is he bringing up “cheating” in the election? It’s not true, relevant and has already been investigated (like Biden and Burisma). Just reinforces that this is a partisan charade. Given all that, I’m not defending Trump. I didn’t vote for Trump. But this is politics run a mock and will backfire on the “truth” owning Democrats.
What is so complicated that it takes 24 hours?
Trump made a phone call in which the other guy didn't know about the weapons suspension, and he wasn't told either.
By the time the dust settled the aid, which is warehoused anyway just in case, made it, all in time.
That is kind of it.
Now it's time to wait to see if the DNC names Biden.
If so, then we'll bash the corrupt and slow Mr. Biden and elect the honest and hardworking Mr. Trump.
11
@novoad Is this your weird way of saying that you think the president should be allowed to hold aid to an ally hostage if they dont give him dirt on a US citizen and political opponent? Or just your weird way of saying that you believe in a sham trial with no witnesses or documents? Think about which team you are playing for.
21
@novoad
"Trump made a phone call in which the other guy didn't know about the weapons suspension, and he wasn't told either.
By the time the dust settled the aid, which is warehoused anyway just in case, made it, all in time."
That isn't how it happened. At all.
Not only was Zelensky quite aware of the suspension of the monetary (not weapons) aid, he was at one point preparing to go on TV in an interview with Fareed Zakaria to announce the desired investigation in order to get the aid released. This was only stopped because the Senate found out about the aid being held up and raised a stink, which is why the aid was released (and the interview was subsequently cancelled).
Just because our leader is an idiot doesn't mean all leaders are.
18
@novoad: No matter how often you say that black is white, it’s still white...
4
All of those pleading for fairness and justice in the Senate trial were noticeably silent while the Democrats in the House fast-tracked the impeachment process ignoring the pleas from Republicans for input to the inquiry process and testimony from their proponents. And the cries that the basic tenets of the Constitution and our republic are on trial are baseless. Half the people in this country don't even believe an impeachment trial should be transpiring. Most believe that the President will be found not guilty and the "fairness" or lack thereof will be forgotten in short order. And the Constitution and the republic will continue unscathed. The only thing changed will be that the Democrats have substantially lowered the bar for impeachment. So, we can look forward to many more.
8
@B. T.
The "pleas from Republicans" were fabricated nonsense.
Remember the "basement pizza party" where Republicans interrupted proceedings, bringing cell phones into a secure location, angry because they weren't given access? Except that they were. Several of them were on the very committees that were permitted to join, but they just didn't go. It was more important to them to make a scene and pretend that they were being barred.
Half the people in this country don't even believe an impeachment trial should be transpiring? Well, that's interesting, considering the latest statistic I saw said 51% believe that not only should he have been impeached, but the impeachment *should result in removal* (note: This doesn't include the people who think he should be impeached but not removed). How can those two things be true at the same time?
Most people believe that he will be acquitted. That's not the same thing as "not guilty".
267
@B. T. Is this your weird way of saying that you support a President holding an ally hostage in exchange for a public announcement of an investigation into US citizens and political opponents?
Lowered the bar? If this is not impeachable conduct, nothing is. Time to rethink which country you are rooting for. A majority of Americans believe the President should be removed. And big deal, you'll get Pence!
They asked him to appear in the House, with his lawyers, he said no. Your positions are a joke. And more than half of the voters voted against your gameshow host cult leader.
20
@B. T. Asking a foreigner country to interfere in our election is not impeachable?
Maybe name a scenario where a president should be impeached?
20
Out foxing is different then cheating. Hurry up Nancy Pelosi had her chance now the losers are crying foul.... Laughable!
5
Whatever happens in the Senate when the final votes are in and the judgment recorded, Mr. Schiff will be remembered for being heroic--absolutely heroric--a true and faithful defender of our Constitution, our democracy, and our nation.
103
@MR There's a good chance he'll be remembered as a loser - he's 0 for, what, two or three now?
8
MR, you're talking about Adam Schiff? The congressman from California? He's a hero? Really? Excuse me, I'm trying not to laugh.
8
@Mmpack12
In my book, ‘losing’ to cheaters is a win.
4
Slim and none are the Democrat's chances both in this Senate farce and in the 2020 elections. Vote for America--Vote Republican.
8
Nearly two years ago I had an exchange of messages with Jeffrey Toobin, CNN’s chief legal analyst, about the likely outcome of the Mueller investigation. He thought it would be Trump’s Waterloo, and I wrote that I thought Trump would pull off “the perfect crime”: everybody knows he is guilty, but a completely dysfunctional Congress (and a powerful propaganda machine - Fox News) would ensure that he never pays for his crimes. All of that was before the “Ukraine Shakedown”. Now, a GOP-controlled Senate, unbound by any quaint notions of ethics or service to country, will likely let Trump get away with this latest outrage. He will go free, and I’ll wager that the first thing Trump will do is call up Vladimir Putin and start working on the disruption of the 2020 election.
William L. Valenti
Portland, Oregon
205
@William L. Valenti My guess is that the disruption of the 2020 election started immediately after the 2016 election.
38
If this hearing solidifies anything, it's that GOP not only tolerates but encourages corruption and law-breaking and cronyism.
It's evident with the millions that McConnell and his bride Secretary of Transportation Chao have funneled into their coffers.
It's evident as Republican Senators smile and introduce measures to promote Trump’s nepotism? His children travel with him every time he embarks on state visits or attends international summits overseas.
His family members were spotted in Davos, rubbing shoulders with global business leaders, hoping to extract personal gains. American taxpayers are footing their bills – accommodation, security etc. What do Trump’s working class voters say about the hundreds of millions spent on his trips at home and abroad? The Trump administration is seeking to delay a Democratic effort to require the Secret Service to disclose how much it spends protecting Trump and his family when they travel - until after the 2020 election. Steve Mnuchin and GOP senators have been negotiating draft legislation to move the Secret Service back to his Treasury Department.
10
Adam Schiff has been brilliant, continuing his performance in the House impeachment hearings as the lead House Manager in the Senate trial. Other Democratic House Managers have done well, but Jerrold Nadler was a bit sloppy.
While fully grasping the outrage of Donald Trump’s flaunting his success in stone-walling and obstructing the process, Nadler is not sufficiently eloquent to call out the Republican senators and their leader, Mitch McConnell, for abetting Trump’s lawless behavior without coming across to the public as common street brawler or shouter.
The theme that Trump’s efforts to rig the senate trial are inconsistent with the behavior of a supposedly innocent man must continue. The public will eventually see the cover-up for what it is.
6
Democrats after this sham acquittal should introduce Constitutional Amendments that declares the type of conduct Trump undertook here to be impeachable, and guaranteeing the right of the people’s representatives to seeks subpoenas to hear live from relevant witnesses and to obtain relevant documents, with the Chief Justice deciding any disputes.
Democratic candidates should also vow if elected to seek an independent counsel to fully investigate these Ukrainian events to find and patch holes in the Constitution. Beyond finding the details of the Ukrainian fiasco, the counsel should seek to determine whether any foreign powers have infiltrated our government, whether our electoral system is uncompromised, and recommending fixes to any problems identified.
I know, some of these actions would be politically risky (more investigations, really?), but I for one have been pushed over the waterfall, and can’t be bothered with fears of electoral sound bites.
Democratic strategy experts are terrible at strategy. We lost two entirely winnable elections because of bad strategy. In 2000 and 2016 we lost on the heels of 8 years of rising prosperity and growth. And as a result, the country has veered wildly off course to potentially dystopian futures.
Let’s show Americans hundreds of years in the future, that in the most divisive time since the Civil War, progressive Americans stopped poll testing right vs. half-right, and simply did what was right. And trusted in the voters.
2
Adam Schiff is in all his glory. He's still reliving the Mueller Report. I remember he said he had information about Russian collusion and yet he never produced it.
3
The Constitution states that the "Chief Justice shall preside" over an impeachment trial and the Merriam-Webster dictionary defines preside as "to be in charge." Rather than let his place in history be damaged by McConnell's sham trial, Chief Justice Roberts should suspend these proceedings until witnesses and documents are allowed. What other legal proceeding exists that allows a majority of the jurors to decide what evidence can be admitted?
2
All the grand standing political speeches supporting our Constitution, the rights of our citizens will not negate the fact this process called impeachment is nothing more than a scam. It reminds us that politicians are liars, and it reminds us the need to move on from a two party system, as well as most importantly placing term limits on those in the House and the Senate. And possibly only a single one term for the president, of 6 years. Why, because problems get worse and no action happens to correct things when the people that caused the problems, are the same people still in office. Like now, we spends months on impeachment and know there is no justice at all in what is going on. If one political party doesn't like it, then rewrite the rules. No one is accountable. And not one person in the House or Senate has stood up before out nation and said what is happening is a farce.
1
@Me Too
You are absolutely right if your source of information is Fox News. All over the world Fox has become a metaphor used when describing propaganda. You have adopted the stable genius's terminology e.g. the word "scam". Well Donald John would know what a scam is since he is an undisputed expert's expert. Do you know if he has paid those piano contractors yet?
I thought Adam Schiff did a beautiful job laying out what Trump did and why it matters and why Trump needs to be removed from office. I teared up as Schiff warned the Senate (and all of us) of the risks to our future as a democracy if Trump is acquitted. I hope my senators are listening.
6
"But honestly, we have all the material. They don’t have the material.”
Honestly, how in the world does that no produce headlines to the effect of "Trump Brags About Witholding Critical Evidence"?
5
If aid to Ukraine was critical to our National Security - as alleged by Democratic Impeachment Managers, why was there no outcry when Obama denied such aid throughout his entire Presidency? Because, it’s not about the aid. It’s about overturning an election.
5
So the Dems have tied their cart once again to the illustrious Adam Schiff, the guy who promised us via the Mueller Report that he had the goods on the Donald, yet didn't. Now his sloppy work surfaces again as he is demanding that the Senate allow witnesses and new evidence, which is a pretty good indication what Mr. Schiff thinks about the case he's brought before the Senate. It stinks.
What's even more incredible is the lame thinking that a Republican controlled Senate is going to allow what he couldn't get done in the Democratically controlled House. There is no shame in politics.
2
I’m glad the Democrats are finally using real, clear, short words like ’cheat’ to talk about Trump’s actions. Trump has a limited range of talents, but one thing he is really good at is using simple slogans and concepts. To keep winning people over, the Democrats have to break through all the lies by communicating with simple, clear language like this - in way that everyone can relate to.
4
Schiff spoke eloquently to appeal to the better angels of his audience in the Senate.
He stressed the fragility of our democracy in a world of emboldened autocrats and how it requires vigilance and courage to reaffirm democratic ideals such as the sanctity of our elections to be free from foreign interference. I have my doubts that the Republican Party has many Senators who will search their consciences and act to support our American ideals. I think most will remain silent instead of showing courage and fulfilling their constitutional duties. If they do, they will have no choice but to convict Trump for his shameless abuse of powers and his unconstitutional obstruction of Congress. True conservatives would be appalled by his untrammeled overreach of power and would show loyalties to the rule of law, the constitution, and the independence of Congress with its oversight responsibilities. They would be motivated by their beliefs in the limits of governmental and executive power, an essential part of traditional conservative doctrine.
Instead it is more likely they will display the silence of cowards and choose political convenience over
patriotism and a love of the truth!
2
I thought Adam Schiff did a beautiful job laying out what Trump did and why it matters and why Trump needs to be removed from office. I teared up as Schiff warned the Senate (and all of us) of the risks to our future as a democracy if Trump is acquitted. I hope my senators are listening.
1
I thought Adam Schiff did a beautiful job laying out what Trump did and why it matters and why Trump needs to be removed from office. I teared up as Schiff warned the Senate (and all of us) of the risks to our future as a democracy if Trump is acquitted. I hope my senators are listening.
The world knows what a despot and a crook looks like. So, ironically, does Putin.
The question is, does the Senate, many of whom are second generation Americans who never had to read the Constitution to pass a citizenship test; as were the majority of Trump’s voters.
Taking a country for granted ends in the failure of that country and it seems, without continuity in ideology and patriotism, that is what is happening.
2
Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine ... etc ... etc
Fighting the aggression of Russia.
Please.
Some years ago I was an active participant of Cold War V1.0.
As the saying goes: Never Again.
The 1980s called, they want their foreign policy back.
Now we have Senate Democrats beating the war drums, singing praises of Ukrainians - all for the purpose of political expediency.
Can't wait to see the NYT Editorial and OP-ED board encourage their children and grandchildren to join the military to fight for our gallant allies. - the Ukrainians (and Kurds). Do write back to tell how all that works out.
3
It’s disgusting to learn how Trump and his proxy Giuliani went on a campaign to smear
Yovanovitch, a 33 year veteran, while compromising the State Department, all so he could extort Ukraine into manufacturing evidence on a potential opponent. When the Republicans turn a deaf ear to the irrefutable evidence of Trump’s guilt, the past corruption of Ukraine will have found its perfect match in today’s body politic of the US.
4
It is pathetic to see Trump's lawyers and our GOP elected representatives trying to play "Hide the Ball" with testimony an evidence and deflecting to Hunter Biden.
Hunter Biden is a matter that has absolutely nothing to do with the charges on the table; attempted bribery of a foreign government for personal political gain and obstruction.
If I were running things we have the brightest citizenry on the planet not the dupes and stooges Trump counts on for their votes.
We would also have cultural protections such that regardless of race and ethnic background. For example; those who's families have been American citizens the longest would receive more child rearing benefits. Those whose families have only been citizens for generation, or, two, the least child rearing benefits. Culture does need to be protected but fairly, for all concerned.
The longer your ensuing generations contribute to America, the more benefits you earn. Radical idea? Perhaps.
1
the democratic majority in congress is subverting and influencing the 2020 election by this impeachment at a level more subversive than trump. that is a no brained call
Schiff "accused" Trump of cheating?
Here's how I would have put it:
Schiff calls out Trump for his cheating to win the election.
It's not an accusation; it's a statement of the obvious.
If Biden were tough, he would have ridiculed Trump for needing to cheat. I would have said something like, "Can't you ever win an election without help from Russia and now Ukraine, China and any other country. You are crying out to all world leader: "My country for your support."
1
What’s the republican strategy?
All afternoon only Dems were speaking. Are the republicans letting them shoot their 24 bullets so they can have the last word.
I already forgot what Schiff or Nadler so forcefully presented.
It’s usually what you hear last is what sticks.
1
If the Senate votes to acquit this corrupt criminal, they will be consigning fair and representative government to the scrapheap. And we're paying them. I want my country back.
3
This entire thing is all very repetitive and extremely boring. People just don't care about Ukraine or Biden enough to care, and they know this type of 'cheating' happens all the time. No wonder Pelosi is vacationing in Europe and ME while all this goes on.
One moment Trump says he wants Perry, Bolden and Mulvanney to testify as he has nothing to hide, but then he bans anyone working for him to testify and claims absolute executive privilege. To say that he talks out of both sides of his mouth is an understatement! He keeps saying he released a transcript of the "perfect" phone call he had with Ukraine's President Zelensky, but if he had nothing to hide, why not release the actual tape of the phone call? Why was the phone call "hidden" away in the most classified file? Why ignore every subpoena for documents? This is the behavior of someone hiding something, not the actions of an innocent man. Why the Republican senators are in step behind this abhorrent man is beyond me. Trump represents everything every mother tries to ensure their child doesn't become. No company would tolerate his behavior and he most certainly wouldn't be rewarded in any way for it! A man who is not the least bit loyal to anyone but himself (and possibly Putin), is not deserving of such adulation! He's tapped into a very ugly side of 40-45% of this country and it is frightening. Every republican who voted against having witnesses and documents should be voted out....period! There's only one reason to avoid discovering the truth and that's because you fear what the truth will reveal.
2
The use of the word ‘cheat’ was focus group tested to assure the the greatest impact in the Trump-hating echo chamber
1
If what POTUS has done “is nothing wrong and perfect “ then why not let his boys testify? If the Republicans want the Bidens to testify, then strike a deal. Let them all testify. Even though the Biden’s have zero to do with this trial it will show just how ludicrous it is to demand they testify.
2
There's some smokescreen and bait-and-switch going on.
Maybe DJT would want to pressure Ukraine to reduce corruption quid pro quo for something.
But investigating Joe Biden's son on the board of one company would accomplish nothing. What would they find: That son attended 4 of 5 monthly board meetings by teleconference but missed one? So what? If there was anything going on between son and father, that might be of US interest, but you wouldn't find it by investigating inside the Ukraine, by Ukraine staff. I am sure if DJT leaves office and the next Dem president thinks bad acts by DJT sons during the prior administration should be investigated, they would be.
Does anyone know: Can Chief Justice Roberts call a mistrial?
2
I pity those Republican senators who will lie against their conscience and vote against impeachment. Trump grew up cheating in New York City, that's what you did back then and he never stopped. Those senators will have to live with their conscience if they have any.
5
Trump is a demagogue. It is up to the Republican senators to save the nation. Are they ethically up to that?
3
If this President is not held accountable, future Presidents have a green light to do whatever they like as long as his or her party controls the Senate. The country is becoming more and more polarized, so winning at all cost makes this scenario likely.
24
@Mark McIntyre:
Although I do agree with you, I bet if a future Democratic president did this, the Republicans would impeach so fast, our heads would spin.
2
Where were you when Bush and Obama got away with heinous crimes like torture and the extrajudicial assassination of American citizens?
Such hypocrisy.
1
@Mark McIntyre: What happens when New York, Texas, and California secede from the Union. Can we expect the Ukraine treatment?
Watching from the other side of the Pond, Schiff's case seemed to me to be extraordinarily compelling, both on the facts (beyond sane dispute) and on the implications not only for your society but the rest of us if this goes unchecked.
55
How is anyone not completely embarrassed to be an American at this point. The whole system is beyond broken and we treat everything like reality television.
24
If they don’t allow all the testimony, the Man will have a hard time claiming exoneration.
9
I watched Congressman Schiff today, and knew I was witnessing history. A masterful -- honest, heartfelt -- argument. We have before us, via OUR U.S. Senate, as clear a choice between right and wrong, good and evil, honest and lying, as I've ever experienced in politics.
72
Suppose - for the sake of argument - we stipulate that the Democrats are in fact out to "get" Trump. Is it the Republican senators' position that this fact gives Trump the power to break the law with impunity?
If not, why wouldn't the Republican senators want to hear (and allow the American people to hear), under oath, from direct fact witnesses such as Mulvaney, Bolton, Pompeo, etc - witnesses who are Republicans and Trump appointees - to prove that the impeachment articles are nothing more than a partisan effort to undermine the Trump Presidency? Surely the President's own high-level appointees aren't out to get him as well, are they?
12
At this point, the principle goal of the house prosecuters is NOT to convince at least twenty Republican senators to vote to convict. They now need to play upon the “better angels” of at least four Republican senators.
If four Republicans swing to a position allowing witnesses to testify and formerly-denied documentation to be brought forth, eventually a verdict of guilty is possible. Conscience is a powerful force. So is patriotism.
Do not discount truth, reason and fairness. It ain’t over ‘til it’s over.
9
@Tom W
"If four Republicans swing to a position allowing witnesses to testify and formerly-denied documentation to be brought forth, eventually a verdict of guilty is possible."
This is not their goal. Even if they can convince 4 R's, removal isn't possible. When you have so many people against the normally slam-dunk idea of *presenting evidence and having witnesses at a trial*, conscience and patriotism simply isn't powerful enough.
No, their goal is to get these witnesses to testify, to get the information out there so people can make informed decisions during the next election. In other words, they're not leaning on the consciences and patriotism of the Republicans; they're leaning on the consciences and patriotism of *voters*.
1
What is the reason between the absurd rule of only water and milk? Why not tea or coffee? Why did Republicans did not challenge that rule?
1
Could this the first time most of the Republican Senators have heard the evidence? Many bragged about not paying attention to the House impeachment hearing. And so many live on a diet of Fox News and nothing else. I wonder what they're really thinking now.
6
The Senate will not do the job of the House.
Juries do not call witnesses.
Grave blunder by the House - which was in a big hurry.
Their articles are flawed and inadequate.
6
@Dr. John
I'm sorry... what?
The Senate (the jury) doesn't want to call witnesses. The impeachment managers (from the House) do.
The Senate is determining the rules. That isn't the House's blunder. They have absolutely no control over it.
5
@Dr. John, Psst...That's why the charge of OBSTRUCTION applies!
2
@K
It does not work that way.
Every NYT and Wapo headline should repeat the fact that Trump's lawyers are lying during these proceedings.
Republicans weren't allowed in the SCIF during the House investigation: LIE.
Trump wasn't allowed to cross-examine witnesses: LIE.
The Mueller report cleared Trump of obstruction of justice: LIE.
Presidents can only be impeached for breaking the law: LIE.
16
I was a Hospice volunteer in prisons during the AIDS pandemic where young men, facing both death and every sentence from drug possession to murder showed more class, more forgiveness, more civility and respect than the president of the United States is now showing Congress while in Davos. Shame on him and the Republican Congress.
16
The facts and evidence are clear and solid. Trump is guilty and everyone knows it. The senate republicans are involved in the biggest coverup and sham in US history. They have taken as axe to our laws, Constitution and their oaths. They should be voted out in the biggest landslide election in history for their own gross abuse of power and I believe they will be. Make sure you're registered to vote.
17
Thank you Representative Schiff, and thank you to the experienced competent public servants who testifed during the House hearings. Now, we shall see how the Republicans will try to cover up, deflect, and pretty much push us towards dictatorship/monarchy where a President can commit transgressions with impunity and immunity. Disgraceful
12
Awesome stuff!
Schiff is showing how desperate the Dems are in their quest to use impeachment as a ploy to win in 2020!
All of this will solidify the reelection of our President.
And the dems know this.
4
@DB
So then write to your Republican Senators and tell them to allow witnesses and testimony.
Show us just how desperate the Dems are.
After all, if it will just solidify the reelection of Trump, what do you have to lose?
3
@K
Of course, the Dems want the Reps in the Senate to call witnesses and include more of this so-called "evidence"
But why should the Reps do so?
Those House committees saw testimony after testimony - pages and pages of evidence. The Dems were POSITIVE about validity of the evidence presented to them and voted to pass these impeachment articles. So, therefore, these articles of impeachment should suffice as evidence to impeach our President.
The Dems in the House had a choice - use the courts to have Trump administration officials be compelled to testify (because, as our President's right, evoked presidential immunity for these officials) and to include more evidence to support their case to impeach.
But the House Dems knew this would be a long fight, (and they might not succeed) which would probably last past the 2020 election.
So - due to these reasons - the Dems were now desperate to impeach because they claimed it was "imperative" to move quickly and rushed through their vote.
NOW - because of these failings in the House, the Dems want the Reps in the Senate to do what they could not.
So again - Why should the Senate clean up the mess left by the House?
The Dems can claim "cover up" etc and scream at the top of their lungs at the "unfairness" of the trail in the Senate (my god, how disingenuous)
What else have they got? Nothing but failure.
Which will all secure the reelection of our President
And you know it to be true
At the first break today republican Senator John Barrasso was briefly interviewed. I think he represents what the majority of how the other republican Senators intend to play this and their playbook is simply to continue to lie.
In one breath he said they were all carefully listening and then stated;
"Now they want to bring in new witnesses, new evidence, new individuals to testify when they could have done all of that..."
He was referring to the House investigation. So apparently he wasn't listening all that carefully to Article II of the impeachment describing how Trump blocked all of that testimony and documentary evidence from seeing the light of day during the House investigation.
This should be seen as an insult to his republican constituents at home, he's calling you all stupid and incapable of understanding the facts.
11
By “Hunter” do they mean disgraced ex-congressman and Trump lickspittle Duncan Hunter R-CA, who was forced to resign and is probably going to jail? He has about as much to do with this as any other Hunter.
12
What Schiff is telling Americans is that the crazy clown in the oval office is embarked on the road to DICTATORSHIP. Wake up America before it's too late.
14
"Cheating", to Trump, is just 'business as usual'. Quite frankly, I have the impression that this vulgar bully has no idea what honesty means, nor decency. He has been a liar, and a crook, all his life; why should he change now, especially with the power of the presidency, and the impunity granted by his republican complicit sycophants?
13
What a sad spectacle.
Nancy Pelosi absolutely refused to bring impeachment proceedings against GW Bush his administration’s use of torture (probably because she herself was briefed on the progam and acquiesed to it), and yet now she and her co-conspirators are preaching Constitutional law over Trump's compartively mild activities in Ukraine... I guess lying a country into an illegal war and torturing people to death for no good reason is A-OK with her?
https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/cq/2006/11/08/cq_1916.html
“I have said it before and I will say it again: Impeachment is off the table,” Pelosi, D-Calif., said during a news conference.
Going after Joe Biden's son for sleazy dealings in Ukraine, though, that's a step too far!
What would the Founding Fathers say!
Gross Byzantine corruption in the failing days of the American Empire, that's what the historians will say about this.
5
The Democrats cheated in the election by unlawfully abusing FISA judges.
5
@Dr. John So have Barr lock up Comey?
1
Are you referring to GOP appointed judges? That’s a laugh placing all your hopes on Carter Page who would have been investigated no matter what.
4
@Dr. John: That’s about as true as the statement that the moon is made of cheese.
1
Adam Schiff is brilliant!
I could not help but think of Jimmy Stewart’s soliloquy in “Mr Smith Goes to Washington”. I half expected a standing ovation at the end of his amazing, heart stirring, patriotic speech.
I pray that his appeal to the senator’s better angels breaks through their partisan cronyism.
92
It won’t.
1
As depressing as the proceedings are, to watch, I fail to understand why Democrats would refuse to let Hunter Biden testify, if that's what it takes to get John Bolton to come forward. There are only two possibilities. Either they will discover some shady dealings and then it will have been worth it. Or they will not and it will make Trump's obsession with Burisma seem more far fetched. If Democrats are truly after unfiltered truth, notwithstanding appearances, they should compromise. This is a political process. Yes, it's a heavily unfair "exchange", but everything else has been tried and we're staring at oblivion. Why not?
11
@Someone: No. Hunter Biden is neither a defendant nor a witness in Trump’s impeachment trial. If anything, he’s a victim of Trump’s efforts to smear him and his father.
2
I believe the reason why the Democrats don't want to exchange Hunter Biden for John Bolton as a witness is they run the risk of John Bolton getting on the stand and claiming Executive Privilege and therefore not getting any testimony out of him. Plus Hunter Biden isn't a fact witness.
1
Because it is asymmetric. Don Jr would also need to testify about his deal with Qatar to make that work. The Qatar deal, in a best case scenario that was as clean as Don Jr says, is much much more corrupt than if Hunter did the absolute worst thing he has been accused of. In short, it would be a distraction that would muddy a very clear case.
3
Majority (70%) of this country wants a fair trial with evidence and witnesses. Majority of this country did not vote for this President when he cheated the first time with foreign influence. I have to hope the majority will stand up now and not let Mitch get away with ignoring us and protecting this president any longer. Time is up and the country is growing weary of these games.
48
Schiff would make a great president. There are plenty of us who consider outselves moderate or centrist Republicans who care about the national debt, who care about the rule of law, who care about the consititution, who care about America's leadership role in the world, who care about global warming, etc, etc. who are fed up with the current GOP with few, very few, exceptions. This commentor and much of his family crossed the voting line in 2016 to help deliver the House to the Democrats. We intend to do the same again for the House, the Senate and the Presidency until we get rid of the current crop of faux Repubicans or they clean up there act.
Many of us are outraged and have conveyed our outrage to our Senators (and Representatives). We will continue to do so even though our outrage seems to fall on deaf ears. But we will express out outrage in a much more tangible way at the 2020 ballot box. Enough.
120
@savks, thank you. Your comment gives me hope that sanity, civility, and respect for objective truth may return to our body politic, even if we have different ideas regarding which direction we should go.
8
@savks
I agree with @noke. Thank you.
4
@savks Good to hear!
1
If the Senate Republicans remain deaf to Adam Schiff's passionate, considered, persuasive, comprehensive and, above all, human opening arguments, they will have chosen to remain deaf to the voices of the American people and to the laws of the land.
104
@Harvey Perr I was going to suggest we have to beware of the fact-impervious diehard Trump base--but a few representatives of it have already answered you more ...convincingly....
2
Free and fair elections are the soul of our democracy. Trump tried to sabotage that and more than likely did that already in 2016 with the help of Russians.
He should not only be removed from office, but also jailed for the rest of his life.
32
@Climate Change: Trump blew the perfect opportunity to make the US presidential election one person one vote by declining to take office. He might have even won a run-off election if that came to pass.
@Climate Change
- Impeached
- Convicted
- Removed
- Imprisoned
- Solitary
- Key misplaced
2
Chief Justice Roberts has shown remarkable restraint. While listening to Manager Schiff, I almost expected the Chief Justice to gavel the proceedings to a close and proclaim the president to be, "Guilty!" And I would concur; the president is guilty and must be removed from office.
47
@rgh: I hope The Chief Justice understands that neglect of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" opened the door to a religious coup d'etat by the time this is over.
1
@rgh I concur with your verdict on the president, but not so sure about Roberts. Didn't think both Nadler and Cipollone deserved the reprimand--just all the president's men.
As I listen to Adam Schiff, one thing keeps going through my mind: he'd make an excellent vice-presidential candidate.
34
@Netwit
Maybe Senator or Attorney General one day?
1
It’s an iceberg- the small part you can see (the phone call in July) is above the waterline, and if you can’t see anything, why there’s no iceberg, right? That’s the Republican arguments here: the phone call is just the tip of the abuse of power, the House evidence is the mass of evidence that proves the abuse. And because none of this was a “crime”, he shouldn’t be impeached. But what about the icebergs he’s created that nobody can see, because no whistleblower detected them, and no investigation was started leading to impeachment? That’s what really worries me.
12
@Robert M. Koretsky: The perfect Trump put-down leaves the victim(s) without even the option to complain about it, like shooting down a Ukrainian airliner by hacking a 1980s vintage Russian anti-aircraft network in Iran.
I would just ask anyone who listened to the brilliant presentation by Adam Schiff and has reservations about the proper outcome: so what do you dispute? Schiff placed the present crisis in a historical, a global, a legal, a constitutional, and a future context. And a few suitable quotes! It will be interesting to watch the convolutions which will surely be required by those slippery lawyers to make any kind of defence. Will they find any kind of direct contradiction (I can't see it), or just obscure, obscure. I say, whether the glove fits or not, wear it!
37
If someone had no idea of the character of America — our core principles and the nature of our government — I would recommend they watch a video of Rep. Schiff’s opening presentation. However you feel about impeachment, it is a reminder of what we hold and what we can lose.
48
Yesterday, Trump’s lawyers vociferously claimed that “the Democrats are desperate to get more documentary evidence and to call witnesses here because THEY HAVE NO CASE. NONE!”
I wonder how they will deal with the “crippled case” that Adam Schiff is now presenting.
What evidence do they have to refute Schiff’s arguments? Will they claim that, “This is nothing but irrational Democratic hatred of President Trump. An attempt to undo the 2016 election.”?
It is clearly time for SOME Republican senators to begin abandoning a sinking ship that is the Trump administration.
On the other hand, if the Republicans respond in the manner Republicans Jim Jordan, Devin Nunes, Doug Collins, etc. did during the house investigative hearings, we can only hope those senators/jurors will be taking a crucial step in destroying the Republican party.
Trump and McConnell are too power-mad, arrogant and addled to see this as a very real possibility. However, it is.
By blindly tying the future of their party to the most corrupt, unfit president in American history, the Republicans are taking the very real risk of going the way of the Whigs.
36
@Tom W
“This is nothing but irrational Democratic hatred of President Trump. An attempt to undo the 2016 election.”
They don't believe this. They're high-paid lawyers. They know that if Trump is removed, Pence becomes President. How can you "undo the election" when the 2nd-in-charge takes over?
But as you can see from the other comments here, lots of citizens seem to forget about that little fact.
2
@Tom W Right, if only it were definitely sinking. Their gamble is that if they all stick together, they can win. The lesson of Watergate for today's Republicans is, if they had stuck with Nixon, they could have gone straight from Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush, then who knows, Gingrich, Palin? Ryan?
1
This matter is a clear and present test for the 53 Republican Senators and the 62 million victims of Trump's campaign con who had their votes stolen by his fraud:
The rule of law, the Constitution and everything that makes up the United States--now and over the previous 244 years--is at stake. It will be decided by this trial.
With conviction, an obvious life-long criminal will be removed from office immediately, and will be barred permanently from holding any other federal office for the rest of his life.
And the colossal historical mistake of the 2016 election will be remedied. Mike Pence will be bad, but he's no Trump.
With acquittal, the United States as a national entity organized under the Constitution ratified in 1787 will no longer exist. It will be something else, another system, defined only by whatever group of laws and rules, written or invented on the spot, by whatever tribe, or party, or ad-hoc group of legislators have, in the moment, the power to enforce.
If you or a member of your family fought for, and died, or was wounded, in defense of the United States at any time during its history, that sacrifice will have its meaning and purpose erased as a new form of government and a new, rump, ill-formed version of this union comes into being.
Call your Senator now.
Call the 24 Republican Senators whose seats are up for re-election now.
Call Mitch McConnell's office now.
Your voice may soon be silenced, so use it. Now.
33
I listened to some of Adam Schiff's presentation on the radio and was struck by his eloquence and the strength of his argument. I found myself wondering how it must feel to be a Republican listening to such a powerful statement and knowing deep down that they were on the wrong side of that argument--and of history. Must be tough. At least I hope it is.
54
A lot of commenters here take strong, noble, intellectual, sometimes visceral positions. But the problem is that many of the American people---and I really mean this---have low, faulty moral compasses. Millions of people saw nothing wrong (well, except the Los Angeles city council) with Houston and Boston cheating. Many people argue that it wasn't cheating just like many people here say, "hey, quid pro quo is just part of the game. Nothing to see here folks. Please move on.."
9
@Ralph
Democracy is hard. Moral courage is hard. Speaking out against the crowd when the crowd is moving against you is hard.
But that doesn't mean you must not do it. You must. That is what living an enlightened, moral life is about.
You will not be rewarded with the kind of material rewards others may covet. They are not your models.
Act as if you have grace and grace will come to you.
Act as if you have faith that yours is the right way, and the right way will appear.
Act as if yours is the model to emulate and others will follow it.
If the negative action of others, and their faulty beliefs, were reasons to do nothing, no one would leave their beds to attack the day.
Fortunately, we do.
Ralph, what are you referring to? The Georgia and Florida governors?
@SR Red Sox and Astros. :-)
1
Times correspondents have noted that senators are "griping about fatigue" and are a "very sleep body" and "restless, tired ... ." I must say I have no sympathy for them. The senators chose to run for office. Millions of Americans spend long hours sitting or standing to do monotonous tasks to provide for their families. I think any comment about the restlessness of senators, who do not seem to care about the restlessness of the country when it comes to a pendulum of hypocrisy in Washington, D.C., should be qualified with the reminder that they are sitting for one of the most if not the most important even of their political careers and one of the most solemn and important events in American history. I wish the Chief Justice would at least admonish the snowflake senators for their groans and inability to sit still. Older generations continually mock the younger ones for their reliance on technology and social media, and here we have a bunch of egotistical geezers who've gone a few hours without their phones and are starting to lose it. "Griping about fatigue" - give me a break.
22
@Justin Lee Campbell
The Geriocracy that is the US Senate can retire at any time if they can't stay awake.
3
My guess is the only senators complaining are GOP members since most of them have never worked for a real wage for a real boss in their life. If they did, they would care about who pays their salary and who they really work for and take this seriously. (Hint: DJT and GOP leadership is NOT who they work for.)
2
Yesterday Pat Cipollone, the attorney for Trump, said that “Not even Mr. Schiff’s Republican colleagues were allowed into the SCIF”, complaining about the unfairness and illegitimacy of this witch hunt hoax.
This was widely denounced as an outrageous lie but this is a deception that is often claimed by Republicans and on Fox News and works for their brainwashed viewers.
Someone with the necessary resources should get the videos of the Republicans on the committees involved in the impeachment inquiry who were so angrily claiming they were shut out and the transcripts of these same hearings that show them not only present but asking questions (if that’s what you can call their performance).
That would make for some powerful campaign ads for their democratic opponents. Most voters don’t appreciate being lied to, at least not when it can be so easily proven to be a lie.
23
@Me Of course, the Republicans will come back with their own videos of when unauthorized Republicans barged in to closed sessions. "See, here are Republicans, not being allowed to participate!" They are sly.
As I listen to Adam Schiff, I just can't help tearing up and feeling so desolate for our republic.
23
@Susan
That's what McConnell, Trump and the Republicans want you to feel: depressed and hopeless. That's how they win.
Lift your eyes and keep them on the prize: the United States we have always known and loved. No one denies we have problems; we have many.
But none of those problems will be addressed as long as this career criminal occupies the White House. He is a scourge on every positive value and belief this country inspires.
If he is not removed by impeachment, then we must roll up our sleeves and work to make sure he will be removed by the ballot. I know you'll do your part.
Thank you for that.
1
Adam Schiff really tells it like it is. He should be President!
11
It's almost as if someone wanted to test, bend, and break every tenet, law, and rule of what makes democracy function to aid their own cause, which is opposite of ours
8
Chief Justice Roberts could be replaced by any sports umpire.
7
Adam Schiff says we could be on the way to tyranny, or are we on the road back to plantation style colonialism? Not surfdom, but a step back to indentured servitude, incarceration of the poor and the power of the landowner? Unfair credit and banking services and no organized health or human services?
To me it is the Confederate Dream, the almighty on the steps of the plantation home guiding Jim Crow into an all encompassing hierarchy seen in the United States before the Civil War.
Ask your rep in congress or the senate what they think about The Gettysburg Address. Someone please ask Mitch McConnell for me.
3
@Guy Walker
It's called Post-Modern Feudalism. The 0.001% own everything, there's no "government" to regulate them, and the majority of people have no hope for a better tomorrow.
2
Guy, I was thinking the same thing. I think both McConnell and Graham pledged to uphold the constitution of the CSA.
@Moehoward Even worse, the government regulates in their favor.
So, if Trump and associates had learned through Ukraine's efforts that Biden and son's Board of Directors position was shady, that discovery of bad behavior would have given Trump an unfair advantage in 2020 and been criminal.
OK. Hmmm. Cognitive Dissonance.
2
@Easternwa-woman
Except that there's no evidence of such shadiness, despite much that confirms Russian—not Ukrainian—meddling in the 2016 election, and then there's the unlawful (GAO) withholding of Congress's approved military aid to bribe Ukraine into helping Trump with domestic affairs.
Cognitive dissonance, indeed.
4
@Easternwa-woman
Except that's not what Trump wanted.
Several witnesses have already said that Trump only cared about the *appearance of* an investigation. He didn't give a lick about any actual investigation.
The "discovery of bad behavior" wouldn't have given Trump the unfair advantage. A cooked-up conspiracy would.
2
Bolton for Biden? No way!
Trading what could be lukewarm criticism of Trump by John Bolton who is far from retirement and who has always been a good soldier for the Republican side, would result in trashing of the one candidate Republicans fear most.
This would be a catastrophic mistake for Democrats, and one that could cost them not only the presidency but also their chances of flipping the Senate.
Look. Republicans are really good at this kind of strategizing. They are more focused, more united, and less constrained by open mindedness, morality, and a sense of duty to the Nation. They had already decided that Biden is the candidate they don't want to face this fall. Ukraine shows that calculation.
Letting Republican Senators grill either Biden just before the Iowa and New Hampshire primaries would be a death-blow to Joe's chances to win the nomination, and would let Republican Senators escape the box Nancy Pelosi has built for them.
If Biden is permanently damaged, they hope Sanders or Warren will be the Democratic nominee. Then, their unprecedented campaign contributions, both legal and illegal, will fund painting a red menace, a wealth tax, and a nanny government.
Democrats have been known in the past to make miscalculations at the wrong time.
Giving up a presidential candidate Republicans rightfully fear for the testimony of a bluffing Bolton, is obviously another huge mistake that could open up a way out of a trap they otherwise could not escape.
7
@Saints fan, What happen to country before party? Corrupt Republicans!
2
Defying a lawful subpoena would seem to be every bit as much a high crime as lying under oath. Just saying.
6
@Hypoteneus
The problem is that there has been no judicial determination that any of the subpoenas are valid. Subpoenas are issued by parties, like the House, or Trump, and not by the court. So if one challenges a subpoena, as Trump has done, the other party must go to court to enforce it. If the Court rules that the subpoena is valid in all respects, and the party to whom the subpoena was directed still does not comply, only then can that party be found in contempt for non-compliance.
The problem for the Dems here is that they never went to court to seek to enforce compliance with the subpoenas.
5
Schiff did a masterful job laying out the case.
Who would want a U.S. president that did what Trump did: Ask foreign leaders to interfere in our elections (on his behalf), and then threaten to withhold U.S. aid passed by Congress unless the foreign leader cooperated in digging up dirt on an American president's political opponent, and refuse to let witnesses testify. Not the strategy of an innocent person.
1. This is a clear violation of the impeachment clause in the Constitution (as most constitutional scholars agree). But I don't think Trump even grasps abstractions such ethics, laws, the Constitution, the Golden Rule, etc.--and that is a real problem if someone is President of the USA. Because, whether Trump and the GOP and their supporters like it or not, we are a nation of laws, and will only survive if we stay that way.
2. And at a lower level, it was really so ludicrous, unnecessary, and such a stupid thing for President Trump to do. In fact, if Trump were the terrific president he claims to be, why would he even need to call foreign leaders to cheat and help him get elected?
3. What is very serious is that if Trump is not removed from office (at least he is formally impeached), then what he did & gets away with sets a precedent for future presidents.
What is so discouraging is that if a Democratic president did what President Trump did, the Republicans would be tripping over themselves to impeach and remove him or her from office.
8
Unfortunately this whole show is a bad joke. If lying to a supreme Court Justice carries no penalty then our way of life is over.
8
And even as Adam Schiff expertly lays out the Ukraine case for impeachment, co2.earth/daily-co2 reports from the Mauno Loa Observatory in Hawaii that atmospheric concentrations of co2 have broken a new all time record and stand today at 415.79 parts per million. And we probably won't reach peak readings until mid May. Expect awful extreme weather events this summer and fall.
When the president of the United States is not only a criminal but a climate change denier, the entire world is in peril. I beg of you, Republican Senators, get rid of this maniac.
10
@Honest Abe Yes, The US can't do it alone. But we can LEAD.
America is traumatised.
The GOP is playing a short game. This they learned from the King of Expedience, 5 Minutes Don and his tiny attention span. They have learned to surf the media cycle.
The lack of principle in the conservative bloc and heir lack of respect for the majority on their left... fellow Americans... is breathtaking. They have no urgency about election meddling because they want it. They really do.
7
Representative Schiff's introductory speech was nothing less than brilliant and inspiring!
While I cannot fathom how any senator cannot have been moved to vote for what's right, that's surely what will happen, and I beseech Mayor Bloomberg to, in addition to spending $1 billion to dump Trump, spend another $1 billion or two to dump all those spineless un-American traitor GOP Senators!
ps I can't wait to for President Schiff....assuming our Republic still exists.
7
The always "fair and balanced" NYTimes reporters Peter baker and Eileen Sullivan dutifully report that Adam Schiff "ACCUSED" the President of abusing his power.
Apparently every reporter in the NY Times Washington bureau accepts without question that it just MIGHT be perfectly fine for President's to extort political help from a foreign government! After all, if a Republican says it is fine, then the NY Times reports it as a partisan issue in which each side has equal weight and no one should think one is more correct.
This is appalling reporting. The ONLY question is whether the Republicans CARE about Trump's abuse of power, not whether it IS abuse of power. But by writing these so-called "fair and balanced' articles in which nothing a Republican does is "abuse", this newspaper is helping the descent into fascism.
Hey, when President Trump shoots someone on Fifth Avenue, the NY Times will report it as "Democrats ACCUSE Trump of abusing his office by killing someone but Republicans say that he is allowed to do so if he wanted and we at the NY Times just don't have any opinion since both views are equally correct.
1
@RJ
As much as I admire (and agree with) the premises of your passionate opinion, any news agency must objectively report about ONLY 'accusations' or 'allegations' until a trial results in a conviction. The role of journalists is not to have opinions, but rather to report only facts.
1
Adam Schiff’s appearance was soaring
Listing crimes The House went exploring
But I miss John McCain
He should be here again
‘Cause I fear the Senate was snoring
3
Imagine a Senate with even a handful of Independents. The impeachment trial puts the spotlight on the flaw with a system where all players are on one of two teams. This is the foundational problem that’s has mired Congress in recent years. I’m hoping the events this week somehow start to plant the seeds for the emergence of a third party or more Independents. Pipe dream?
8
I wish but our parties are also our leaders so they have a stranglehold on the political process and the money
@Jackson To be fair, he is.
But Moby is right. Someone without a dog in the fight would be more inclined to agree to basic things like including witnesses and new evidence.
1
Fox News has apparently instructed its audiences NOT to watch the actual proceedings--"Let us summarize them for you" as they are too "boring" to watch.
Adam Schiff has laid out the extremely damning evidence, partial though it is due to Trump's obstruction, so well that even MAGA people might actually realize how very guilty Trump is.
39
@JFMACC And their listeners actually obey, don't they!!!
I’m tired and frustrated with the media’s (including the Times’) constant framing of the hours these people work as “exhausting”. The Senate has in recent years had the fewest calendar days meeting in recent history (that’s a fact) and bills languish in McConnells “graveyard”. Many of the Senate members are millionaires. The Supreme Court members are appointed for life, take that to your mortgage broker. Meanwhile hardworking Americans have to hear the media support their inconscionable whining that they have to work a long day with unpaid vacations and sick days and lack of protections. I say suck it up, do your job.
18
@Aras Paul
Please, never use the phrase 'the media.' It reveals a simplistic interpretation of a complex reality. It is also a term used by the liars who use A medium themselves to promulgate their untruths. You are part of 'the media' when you post...
1
Both sides of the aisle seem to lose in this impeachment, mostly because after it is all over, the only question left to ask is if the Democratic Party has to wait until a candidate is selected to determine which country it is going to ask for assistance in rooting out corruption.
5
Trump's defense team is trying to make it look like no laws were broken.
Well the founding fathers felt that having a foreign government interfering in our electoral process was a violation of our constitution there by breaking the law.
What the founding fathers couldn't have imagined was that a sitting president would be the one asking that foreign power to interfere in an election and I'm sure they would have considered that a violation of our constitution.
Trump feels that he can do what ever he wants to with no consequences, hopefully he's in for a rude awaking.
11
During his opening argument, Adam Schiff disproved Article 1 of the articles of impeachment. It alleges that “President Trump—acting through his agents—asked Ukraine to publicly announce an investigation of Joe Biden and a discredited theory that Ukraine instead of Russian interfered in the 2016 election.”
Schiff first read a draft of the proposed announcement prepared by President Zelensky's staff. It read: “We intend to initiate and complete a transparent and unbiased investigation of all available facts and episodes, which in turn will prevent the recurrence of this problem in the future.”
U.S. Ambassador Kurt Volker asked the aides to add the words “including those involving Burisma and the 2016 U.S. elections,” so that the revised announcement read: “We intend to initiate and complete a transparent and unbiased investigation of all available facts and episodes, including those involving Burisma and the 2016 U.S. elections, which in turn will prevent the recurrence of this problem in the future.”
Zelensky’s aides complained this would make the announcement politically sensitive. Volker, testified, “I agreed with the Ukrainians they shouldn’t do it, and in fact told them just drop it, wait till you have your own prosecutor general in place. . . So we dropped it.”
Neither versions, which appear on page 121 of the House Intelligence Committee report, mentioned the Bidens or a discredited Russian theory that Ukraine, not Russia, interfered in the U.S. election.
2
If Dershowitz needs a crime, how about 52 USC 30109(d), up to five years (that’s a felony folks) for each instance of failing to report a campaign expenditure (that includes the candidates own money). Michael Cohen is doing time for this and the only reason Trump wasn’t indicted is because he is a sitting President. He got into office via voter fraud and continues to fix elections. Amendment of complaints are generally freely granted as long as there is no surprise.
21
What a tedious waste of time and taxpayers money. With a tremulous voice Schiff is now invoking the image of the city on the hill, the bogey man Putin, and the future generation of our children. It’s about as disgusting as hyperbolic political rhetoric can get.
10
@Edward Agreed. Hyperbole, partisan hyperbole.
4
@Edward
Disgusting is a "president" illegally witholding military aid from a desperate ally to announce bogus investigations to get personal political favors, and then blocking congressional oversight and investigation into his treachery, and lying about it repeatedly. That's disgusting.
1
This reminds me so much of the Bill Clinton trial in the Senate. Such a waste of time. Everyone knew that Bill Clinton would be found not guilty. That didn't stop the political preening and posturing.
Impeachment should be a serious matter. This is a joke.
9
@John Smithson Mmmm, let me see if you can tell the difference. Clinton had a sexual liaison with a woman and lied about it under oath. The Senate trial was for the sole purpose of deciding whether that constituted the high crimes and misdemeanors standards for removal from office.
Trump is alleged to have extorted Ukraine for the release of $400 million in military aid, which aid was approved by both Houses of Congress and signed off on by Trump. All the witnesses with relevant information testified in the House inquiry that that is exactly what he did. The only witnesses that could have provided exculpatory evidence for Trump did not testify under his instructions not to do so.
Do you see the difference? I didn't think so.
1
@Saints Fan
Bill Clinton foolishly agreed to go under oath, where he lied, thereby committing the crime of perjury.
Donald Trump smartly refused* to go under oath, for either Mueller or this.
Therefore, Clinton guilty, Trump innocent.
Got it.
*And if he did not refuse, his lawyers would have put him in a straitjacket, taken away his phone, and forced him to watch MSNBC 24/7 until he did.
This is probably the first instance of trump having his hand slapped since father Fred trump was alive. That itself is what is important. A bully gets his comeuppance. It’s enough for me right now. The election this November will put the nails into mr trumps political coffin. Let’s make sure the democrats do not run someone unelectable.
13
@Bobby C Well, your current slate is weak and in-fighting: not good.
1
Schiff opened with Hamilton Quote
When a man unprincipled in private life desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper, possessed of considerable talents, having the advantage of military habits—despotic in his ordinary demeanour—known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty—when such a man is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity—to join in the cry of danger to liberty—to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General Government & bringing it under suspicion—to flatter and fall in with all the non sense of the zealots of the day—It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may “ride the storm and direct the whirlwind.”
House Managers Served well by Schiff Lead
29
@That's What She Said Yes indeed. You forgot to mention: "having the advantage of military habits..." in 18th-century English meant "dressed up like an officer," but not a real one.
I await Schiff's condemnation of Bill Clinton, H Clinton, and Obama collecting tens of millions of dollars in speaking fee's with free private jet travel paid for by billionaires and corporations, the Bill Clinton foundation and Biden's son. Sure, it's alll legal and above board. We've become that corrupt.
The problem is bigger than Trump.
5
@JoeG Reagan went on a 2 million dollar speaking tour in Japan-his first after leaving office. He went on to make millions more until Alzheimer’s got the best of him. So condemnation? I am so tired of hearing about Hunter Biden’s corruption too. Famous people or people with names of stature are littered across corporate boards. Athletes, celebrities, political figures from both sides of the aisle get used for name recognition, PR, and legitimacy by all kinds of boards. Does it look unscrupulous?, yes. Is it illegal?, no. Wonder where the outrage is of the 100 year lease all prepaid worth over a billion to save Jared Kuskner’s 5th avenue office building from going into default. The group who leased has strong ties to Qatar. Is this above board since Jared is one of the president’s top advisors with extensive security clearances thanks to his daddy-in-law? Do Ivanka’s trademarks from China, India, Vietnam …since going to work for daddy need to be condemned or investigation? I remember her receiving the China trademarks after a state dinner where she sat next to Xi. Absolute conflict of interest.
That is such a bogus myth that’s been created about Hunter Biden. He had no position in government when he took the position. Bad judgement maybe but not corrupt.
2
@JoeG
And the above is relevant, how?
1
@Moehoward I was wondering the same. What do the actions of private citizens (because that's what they were at the time) have to do with a President using his office to try and cook up a conspiracy in order to hurt a potential political rival?
2
To the Senators: Enough with the white men Senators deciding for all of us who has the power, step aside, it's time to share!! Women, African Americans, Hispanic people, Asian people, people of average means: SPEAK UP!!
We need you, desperately!! Speak up, share your views, your hard-earned wisdom, your point of view! Help us all!!
8
Last night was enlightening. Nadler showed his New York guts and wit. It surprised and pleased me. He was then followed by simpleton phraseology intended to negate his smart oratoration and arguments with lynch mob appeals. It was symbolic of these events as the brilliance of learned Democrats are met with one trick ponies.
10
Let's just be honest, America is over.
7
Trump’s only defense: his re-election is in the national interest because Hunter Biden’s overpaid job on a Ukrainian corporate board (because he was Joe’s son) years ago must be seen as a threat to US security. Therefore, Joe Biden’s candidacy is a threat to America.
Biden=BinLaden
Rogue sabotage of an ambassador & congressional funding intent via Guiliani and a gang of accomplices outside legitimate governmental channels was like a special op against Isis.
Simple logic.
Delusional rationalization.
9
@Sara
It's a case study in classical fallacies of irrelevance.
Here is another blatant lie by The Time: "...Mr. Trump asked the president of Ukraine to do him “a favor” ..." On the phone call, the President asked Ukraine to do "us a favor"-- not "me". This is a shifty lie by The Times. Place the quotes around "a favor" and precede the quote by a word --i.e. me-- that completely changes the meaning. "A favor" is a colloquialism anyway. When will the corrupt press, Schiff and the other Trump haters stop lying about the President? When will the corrupt press stop "sowing discord" ahead of the 2020 election in a way "the Russians" never can? When will the press admit it should have forced Biden's impeachment for bringing Hunter on an official visit to Ukraine to show the oligarchs who they had to pay in order to buy the Obama administration?
6
He was speaking with the royal “we”, but sadly the man-child Emperor wears no clothes.
2
@SHerman
"This is a shifty lie by The Times. "
No, it's not.
Trump, like all capo's, speaks of himself in the third person in order to plausibly deny that he was the one he meant when he said "do us" a favor.
1
@SHerman
You've never used the phrase "do us a favor"?
Seriously, this is an extremely weak argument, even if you haven't. Just because someone says "us" doesn't automatically mean the favor is for anyone else. Please. None of us was born yesterday, you included. Leave those straws ungrasped.
1
Yawn, no sleeping aid required.
4
What total rudeness and downright arrogance from Adam Schiff yesterday. He said:
It makes him [Trump] a Monarch. The very evil "against which our constitution and the balance of powers it carefully laid out was designed to guard against"
Well Mr Schiff, I can tell you that on this side of the pond we adore our Monarch. Her Majesty the Queen is anything but "evil", and probably has more compassion in her little finger than you will see in the whole of your life matey.
When I heard you utter such rubbish, you turned my stomach
5
@David Filce
On this side of the pond we don't have a monarchy. We have a president that believes he is a king. He is sadly mistaken.
1
@David Filce I think he was referring to some of the Queen's predecessors. Absolute monarchs, if you will.
@David Filce
You can adore those leeches all you want. WE HERE have proud independence of doing things another way.
Besides, those leeches have no constitutional powers in
your system anyway, warts and all.
The Ukrainians should still be offended and angry that their apparent international status drew such an incompetent and bumbling crew of American crooks. Is this the best we could send?
8
Bob Mueller's opaque legal jargon report went off like a wet firecracker.
That farce led Bill Barr, Rod Rosenstein, Rudy Giuliani and Donald Trump all took as a license to further collude with our and their Russian Czar Father Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin in order to make Russia great again.
While Nancy Pelosi shirked her duties and powers and obligations to check and balance the President of the United States to a Special Counsel who is not mentioned in any Article of the Constitution of our republic.
5
Trump sez he is going to cut Medicare if re-elected. Another “promise” broken. We will soon see if the pampered white boomers are more concerned about having retirement support or their love for our racist president.
9
@Honest Abe
"hard earned retirement savings of older folks"
Anyone with the kind of money talked about in the tax proposals didn't work hard to get it, nor is it their "retirement savings".
It's like you all are being purposefully disingenuous, I swear.
SHAME..SHAME....SHAM...SHAM.....the Republicans at their worst.
14
Where's Hunter? Is Hunter president????
4
Two things that are eating Donald Trump:
1—He lost the popular vote by over 3 million votes unlike Obama
2—He got impeached unlike Obama
13
Poor Chief Justice Roberts has to listen to the lawyers drone on all night and then get up bright and early to run the Supreme Court. Right now he is America's MVP.
3
Still no broader coverage on Trump bragging about “all the material” he is withholding? What do you people pay reporters for?
13
Considering McConnell, Graham and many other Republicans committed perjury the moment they took the oath swearing to be impartial jurors, it is little surprise this is a RIGGED TRIAL that doesn't allow evidence via relevent documents, or witnesses. This will come back to bite their collective backsides in the future.
24
"Uh huh, they got him for sure.............
Ain't nothing gonna happen." Kenan Thompson
2
Constitutional Prof. Tribe: “The argument that only criminal offenses are impeachable has died a thousand deaths in the writings of all the experts on the subject, but it staggers on like a vengeful zombie!”
The vengeful zombies in this case are Trump’s lawyers Sekulow & Cipollone!
Sekulow & Cipollone: “The Articles of Impeachment are constitutionally invalid on their face. They fail to allege any crime or violation of law whatsoever, as required by the Constitution.”
8
Spoiler Alert: He gets away with it. With the Citizens United decision, I knew the Supreme Court had become blindly partisan. With the gridlock in Congress, I saw it there. But seeing all three branches come together on my TV screen as our President has taken his Vegas act to Davos is truly depressing as it underscores how far the rot has spread in our system. We have taken freedoms and values for granted. No country sets out to install a dictatorship. It embraces false prophets with false promises and end up with this.
75
@Brooklyn Writer: Those who forget history get scammed by politicians promising to restore utopias that never were.
7
The speech of Schiff's lifetime. Clear, measured, rational and dignified. I am glad he is speaking to the American public. No matter what the Senate Republicans do, we will have the timeline of Trump's corruption and an understanding of its repercussions.
184
@Susan
Yes, Schiff is a treasure in the Democratic Party. And he sets a bar for leadership. He reminds us there are other leaders in the Democratic Party who should NOT be granted the limelight... Nadler, Pelosi, Schumer. None of them are articulate or compelling.
2
Eileen Sullivan Washington Correspondent
Nick, there’s a lot of focus on the impeachment proceedings here. And that what we’re hearing from Schiff is not new — we’re just hearing it in long-form for the first time.
and if that's not enough to convince you, call for witnesses!!
9
The "trial" is nothing of the sort. The outcome is preordained. The republican party has abandoned even the appearance of principle to embrace a scorched earth politics that seeks only power and wealth, eventually to rule over the ashes of what is left of our democracy.
I watched in despair as democratic arguments about the need to comply with subpoenas and have witnesses testify fell on deaf ears. I still do not understand why the democrats did not seek judicial enforcement of their subpoenas to obtain Bolton's and other's testimony before the house. Now, instead of any enforcement mechanism in the senate, they have only references to unenforceable "law" on subpoenas and examples of witness testimony in prior impeachment proceedings to literally beg republicans to allow witnesses. What a pitiful sham! Too little, too late. And, once filtered through the Fox propaganda machine, about 40% of us will be told just what to think and feel about all of this. That is, Trump is a gift from God and a persecuted martyr. While we may yearn to live in Bailey Park, I am afraid that the vast majority of us will soon find ourselves living abjectly in a republican-ruled Pottersville.
7
@Kakistocrat we’re already in Pottersville, ever since Mr. Potter was appointed by the board to lead the Savings and Loan in 2016- and George Bailey is on a tramp steamer, headed to Tahiti!
I agree with everything Schiff is saying, but his presentation is becoming redundant. We get the point already!
6
@EN It is not just for you. It is for:
Senators
The public
History
The constitution
Why impeachment is important
6
@EN
One of the key tactics that is drummed into the heads of undergraduates moving toward a career in education is this:
“Tell you students what you will tell them. Tell them. Then tell them what you told them.”
Lawyers, politicians and members of many other professions adhere to this principle.
Congressman Schiff’s communication skills are exemplary.
6
@EN Yeah, after 3-1/2 years it's a bit much...
It's so sad that we pay for this waste, let the people decide the outcome and stop complaining, you have a vote.
8
@JohnQuincy
"The People" elect these individuals to go to DC and MAKE DECISIONS FOR THEM, not consult them on every issue that comes across their desk.
This is not the responsibility of "the people."Their responsibility ends on election day.
This is the responsibility of those ALREADY elected to remove this despicable person from the Presidency. They have the constitutional mandate to do so.
6
We may not have a valid vote. That is the point here.
5
Mitch McConnell and the Republicans are involved in the greatest coverup in the History of the United States. Donald Trump was allowed to
15
@RBI The greatest cover up that's happening right before our very eyes. It's mind-boggling.
2
Alexander Hamilton’s prescient quote on a “man unprincipled in private life” used by Schiff today in his opening remarks today fits Pres T to a T. Amazing how history evolves and devolves even after 200 years.
45
Donald John Trump, just this morning: “We have all the evidence. They don’t have the evidence.” Translation: I, DJT, hereby admit that I am obstructing, and will continue to obstruct, justice, and the Congress, one of the articles for which I am being impeached. By his own clueless admission, I rest his case.
52
@Steve Griffith
No -
Translation:
'The dems in the House rushed this through and figured the Senate would make up for their mistakes - and now they are surprised the Senate refuses to keep up their charade"
@DB Not only does that have absolutely nothing to do with what Trump said, it doesn't even make sense.
2
@K
I know it wouldn't make sense - to a Dem
1
The democratic managers are speaking and appealing to the people. McConnell and his sycophant colleagues are beyond patriotic decency. Schiff et al are fighting off a coup d’etat. I don’t want a corrupt monarchy. I want our democracy back.
44
@AGoldstein
No problem - vote for our President once again in 2020!
1
This is an infomercial on how corrupt the entire Republican party is. Both sides are cooperating on getting the message thru.
The two day to three day change was window dressing attempting to put a veneer of legitimacy on Mitch's farce.
15
I hope that this disgraceful display of Party Over Country by the Republicans convinces voters that a vote for any Republican is a vote against all that our country stands for and a slap in the face to all those who have fought to preserve our democracy. I didn't fight in Vietnam to see our country destroyed from within. I for will never vote Republican, not at the federal, state, or local level.
39
Once one understands that everything Trump says is a projection of his own psyche, then it is easy to decipher the unintentional self portrait in his jibes and insults.
8
Schiff has it exactly right - cheating in an election. Hammer it home over and over.
Extortion should also be a focus - this is how Trump tried to cheat. Pressure Ukraine by withholding military aid to launch a phony investigation so Fox Propaganda will yell "criminal !!" - so childish, and so Trumpian.
14
Make no mistake, the foundational tenets of our Constitution and our republic is what is on trial here. As Schiff just stated
the outcome will "... permantly alter the balance of power in our branches of government." And as Noah Bookbinder eloquently stated, "Mr. McConnell's rules will weaken the power of impeachment as a deterrent to presidential misbehavior..." With yesterdays rejection of all the amendments offered, the Republican dominated senate marched our country right up to the edge of this abyss. This is the kind of situation that can truly injure the guardrails of democracy – boundaries President Trump and his loyalists have been disassembling bit by bit with each lie, cruel and ignorant tweet, dismissal of Congressional authority, and outright attacks on the integrity of other governmental departments: DOJ, State Department, OMB, the Intelligence agencies, the Federal Judiciary, the EPA. Trump's corruption has metastasized through our government like a cancer. Trump and his officials have taken an ax to ethical standards of governing. This is how democracies die. The whole world is watching what America will do here. Will we step over into the abyss reduced to a pretense of a democratic republic like Putin's Russia? If a president is allowed to break the law, ignore the constitution, "do whatever I want" then the law is irrelevant and American constitutional democracy as we have known it is dead.
816
@Twg - you are correct in your assessment that the balance of power will be changed. Had the Democrats litigated executive privilege, like all previous impeachments, instead of rushing this clap trap through positive precedent could have been gained. As it is, this weak case deserves to fail.
7
@Twg
Agreed. We're trying to watch, except for the gag rules Moscow Mitch put in place on TV coverage and reporters' movements. Talk about doing things in the dark.
32
@Mkm
So you are okay with the president trying to put pressure on a foreign country for personal political gain?
If such a weak case, why wouldn't trump let administration officials give testimony? Why was this "perfect call" put on a highly secure server?
77
Unlike other ridiculous debates in the Congress which have become increasingly more partisan, this one is of historical consequence. The debate whether Senators should allow thousands of consequential documents and key witnesses to be permitted in a trial is no less ridiculous, but history is noting this one. A real trial allows relevant witnesses regardless if it is damning to the defendant. In this trial the Republicans who share the same party as the President will not allow any evidence because it is disastrous. Let this go down as what it is. The Republicans in the Senate of the United States chose to ignore their sworn oath to the Constitution and chose to allow the President of the United States to run the impeachment trial his way. That is a sham trial. Much like they would hold in a corrupt third world government where democracy doesn't exist.
644
@jeansch
Didn’t Democrats insist that the evidence they have overwhelming proves that Trump should be impeached? Why are they now so panicked about getting real evidence?
2
@Brian OB
They can call witnesses now so why don't they? Also all the witnesses called in the house were republicans except for some of the government employees and one large Republican donor.
14
@Brian, thats right - zilch. The demos trial is over. They declared Trump guilty. Now, they have to let the Senate do theirs. Time for witnessess is over. Its guilty or not guilty. Simple. But the demos want everything their way. Doesn't work that way. Its time they learned how trials work.
1
Keep in mind, the House managers are juggling multiple audiences. There are at least five target audiences for this presentation (not necessarily in order of priority):
1. The Senate/Congress
2. The President
3. The Judiciary
4. The American Public via the media-sphere
5. The Official Record
Governance is a long arc. #4 and 5 get overlooked in our era of hyper-analysis. What enters the official record will be interpreted decades and centuries from now. Precedence is being set. History will not be kind to those who compromise the Constitution for expediency and short term political gain. The Senate has ceded Congressional power to the Executive since the middle of the 20th century. A rebalance of power is overdue. So, ask yourself, Who is risking the most and who has the most to gain in both terms? Will the Senate vote to make itself moot?”
293
@Sophistia I would re-order thusly
1. The American Public via the media-sphere
2. The Official Record
3. The Senate
4. The President
5. The Judiciary
And only the American Public and official record will have any meaning. Barring something bizarre, the Senate will not convict. The President does not care what the Dems have to say; except as fodder for a tweet storm. The judiciary has no place in this process, except as a mediator of Roberts Rules of Order, As Chief Justice Roberts has no authority in this setting beyond that.
6
Your comment makes me lose hope in our Republic. I am sorry that you see human nature so cynically.
1
@Ruby T. I appreciate your comment, but would like to clarify that my intent is not grounded so much in cynicism but inquiry - to engage in imformed discussion. I apologize if that makes you lose hope in our Republic. I believe engaging in thought provoking dialogue is affirming that our democracy is alive and thriving.
3
Bolton can break the impeachment hearings wide open all by himself-- in the event he is not allowed to testify as a key witness by McConnell and the Senate GOP---by holding --or even threatening to hold--an immediate press conference and telling the truth to the American people about Trump's role in the Ukraine fiasco.
The lid can't stay on forever. The truth is sure to emerge at some time in the near future --likely before the 2020 elections as more and more evidence of Trump's actions leak out and more and more voters get disgusted at Trump's actions and hold on the GOP--and the GOP will be blemished forever in American history if one of its own major party representatives does not have the honor and courage to voluntarily disclose to the American people what he himself knows at a critical time in its history.
There is not a hero born every minute. Is Bolton a man or a mouse?
490
@Ken judging from his upper lip fur, I pick mouse.
51
Ken, that's what the Democrats always say. Wait until the Mueller report! Wait until Christine Ford testifies! Let everybody speak!
What they should have done is waited to impeach until they discovered what evidence there is to support impeachment. Stop screaming about things before they happen.
7
@Ken Sorry, he is a cowardly and avaricious mouse. If he had any sense of patriotism or integrity, he would tell what he knows. But, then that might interfere with his upcoming book release. After all, what is more important, the future of democracy in America or his profit from the book sales? Easy question to answer, apparently.
55
Every single senator who votes again hearing evidence and witnesses is voting against his or her oath of office to be faithful to the laws of the land.
Each one should be impeached, following, by their constituency.
This has nothing to do with the final outcome, but it is a kangaroo court if evidence and witnesses are not heard.
Shameful mockery of our justice system and the Constitution. In what other trial would it be considered legal to block evidence and witnesses?
885
@Concerned Mother Why, then, did the House block some and forego other evidence? Why didn't the House go to court and fight executive privilege, yet sit on the articles for a month?
Why? Because the show is the desired outcome whether Trump is acquitted or not.
11
Concerned Mother, of course evidence and witnesses will be heard. It just won't be live witnesses. The Senate never hears from live witnesses in impeachment cases, in modern times at least.
Each side has 24 hours to present their case. You can bet that they will use that time to present evidence from documents and witnesses to support it.
The Democrats want to go on what is technically called a "fishing expedition". That is, they want to call witnesses and subpoena documents to try to find new evidence to support their case. No judge would allow that. The investigation is not done at trial, it's done well before trial.
14
You are confusing the typical judicial trial with what this is, a legislative branch trial governed by its own set of rules written and enforced by itself.
Admission of new evidence or not is at their discretion, completely.
10
There are two overarching considerations to this matter, imho. One: the continued rock solid support despite tax breaks that hurt his base and others, decimation of the clean air, water, streams acts, cutting food stamps for those who can’t afford to eat, trying to remove health coverage and the overall removal of any programs that help the poor and/or sick. Plus the refusal to protect children and grandchildren from climate change. His supporters don’t believe any of those items affects them — or they simply don’t care. Second: Mr. Trump’s behavior is becoming normalized. As such, it’s not clear to me that this impeachment will hurt him in any way other than as judged by history. Can’t believe we’ve “come this far.”
11
@Peter I agree, 3 years to lose our democracy, the rule of law, and the will of the majority, all to a dictatorial king! It’s like we’ve gone back to 1775!
The people who have the most influence over this impeachment are not the seven House Managers, but the media. Since almost no one in the general public has the time or energy to listen to the hours and hours of "testimony", people will rely on what their media of choice has to say about it. So their interpretation and reporting of the impeachment proceedings is what will matter most. And as we all know, there is lots of bias in the media!
5
The basic case against Trump has been made and over made.
The focus now needs to shift to the individual Republican Senators, their moral obligation, their oath, and what they are saying to the American people by not allowing testimony or evidence.
They have in effect become an extension of the coverup and thus complicit in it.
6
@Time for a reboot
"The basic case against Trump has been made and over made."
Facts are still coming out, and they will likely continue to leak out for months to come. The case hasn't been "over made"; it's barely begun.
As for the rest, I agree completely. November is going to be very interesting.
2
I am not amused that the partisan mob is trying to suppress and annul my vote for President Trump.
Along with 60 million other Americans I chose the best person for the office and find it UnAmerican and anti democratic for a group of political hacks whom I disagree with to overturn an election .
15
It’s not fair to say that the vote is being over turned when Trump has been president for the past three years, dictating policy and approach while in office.
Those who voted for Trump got what they asked for for the past three years.
Impeachment doesn’t change this, it is a check on Executive powers used during this time.
Your vote may elect the president, but the rule of law dictates if he remains as a result of his own actions.
Your vote will count again in November and I would hope that we have a better candidate and representative of the US in doing so.
22
@obummer
You can be unamused all you want. You're certainly OK with the President being a criminal.
5
@obummer you mean the 2020 election, don’t you? That’s what all this is about, haven’t you been keeping up?
1
It is a shame that we go through such a detailed, elaborate process, full of information and facts, to simply result in party line votes at the end. As has widely been reported by NYT and elsewhere, in current times, facts are vastly irrelevant. Seemingly, every single voter and Congressperson has already made up their mind.
It's sad that blind partisanship has reached this level. As I watch these proceedings, read the documents from both sides, I wonder how many people are doing the same. I fear it is shockingly few. The days of careful research, logic, and impartial justice are gone. Our country has been overtaken by the ideas of sensationalism and entertainment, leaving no room for carefully considered, fact based reason. It's depressing.
The reality is that few will follow this proceeding with the attention to detail required to make a truly informed opinion. Fewer still will even have the correct facts. In a nation where even the basic facts that views are formed from are seen as suspect, how can we possibly make an informed decision or opinion?
The answer is we don't. We are so largely influenced by biased sources, media catered to reinforcing preexisting opinions, and having time limited lives that we simply can't be truly objective any longer.
6
@Jon C
"The days of careful research, logic, and impartial justice are gone."
I feel you are doing a grave injustice to your fellow countrypeople.
The "days of careful research" never occurred, at least not by the general public. This is nothing but rose-colored glasses in action.
And in this modern age, we are expected to be EVERYTHING: Informed voters, up to date on current events at all times, physically fit and active, fantastic parents whose children participate in dozens of extracurricular activities, well-read, good cooks, nutrition experts, successful workers who take their work with them everywhere, well-educated, and so on and so on and so on. We simply cannot keep up with everything.
A month ago, Schiff should have contacted Mike Pence, and offered a deal. Trump is out, Pence is in with our 100% support, and we'll push back the 2020 election 2 years to give him time to make a positive difference for this country. Fair.
@Emerson H
An, no. Would never happen.
2
So why isn’t anyone discussing the fact that three Democrat Senators sitting in judgment of President Trump— Warren, Sanders and Klobuchar— should probably recuse themselves from voting in this impeachment trail? I mean technically they would be interfering in an election by getting rid of ultimately their number one opponent, exactly what Democrats are accusing Trump of trying to do with Biden.
10
@David T
I agree with you, actually. At least in principle.
I don't think the two logically equate, though, because the latter is accused using his incredible power given to him as President of the United States to single-handedly influence an election, whereas the others have but a single vote that probably won't make a bit of difference either way. Also, they're not "interfering in an election", because this isn't an election. Trump is still free to run, even if he is removed from office. (But that is a technical point only.)
By the way, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here, in the hopes that your comment is out of genuine concern for due process and not because you just want Trump exonerated no matter what. I hope that faith isn't ill-placed.
1
@David T but they’re not President of the United States, which is what the impeachment is all about!
For Adam Schiff to accuse "some senators of not doing their duty and covering up for the president if they do not permit witnesses" on Tuesday and then Wednesday morning praise "the Senate for its patience sober consideration" how does that NOT sound patronizing if not insincere?
Perhaps a simple apology for allowing one's emotions to get the better part of himself after a very, very long and trying day would have been the prudent course of action.
I thought Mr. Schiff's words were disingenuous at the very least.
4
Today’s opening comments by Adam Schindler, no only has Trump acted only for his personal benefit.
Most terrifying, if Trump considered it necessary to protect himself and is future — he could start a war. Would he?
Why would he not - if he remains in office after this effort at impeachment.
1
When Adam Schiff speaks, I feel compelled to listen. Wish he were running for president.
7
@Whole Grains I second the motion, let’s draft him for the Presidency!
1
My focus is on 2020. Trump is going to be acquitted in the Senate. That was always, always going to happen. That doesn’t make it okay, that’s just reality. We fight on the field in front of us, which is not always the field we would like to have.
We, being anyone who has eyes and can see how blatantly corrupt he is, have our work cut out for us. There is no hope of getting Trump supporters back. They’re gone. They cannot be reasoned with, or compromised with. They’ve demonstrated that over and over again in the last 4 years.
So, going forward we need to focus 100% of our efforts in unifying a coalition of voters that will A) vote, and B) GO VOTE. Voter turnout is the name of the game. And we need to turn out votes everywhere it will matter most. The Northeast, North Carolina, Virginia, Florida, Ohio, and in the Southwest. Even Texas. Yes, THAT Texas.
It is an uphill battle. Ever since Roberts (yeah, the guy in the impeachment hearing) gutted the VRA, our people have been disenfranchised. That’s not going to stop. Which means we need to do everything in our power to help our people register, and vote. It’s time we reclaim our right to exist in this country. Because Trump and his followers are not going to stop tearing apart the world and the country until we make them.
It’s an uphill battle. But we can do this if we stick together. Vote blue no matter who in 2020!!!!!
4
@Austin Ouellette Great post. We deal with the cards we're dealt.
1
Call GOP senators, Email GOP senators, especially those who show a thread of decency, doesn't matter if they're from your state.
Urge them to do the right thing, to vote to include witnesses and documents. Appeal to their better angels.
1
Trump wanted "TV lawyers" to represent him. And, yes, all channels are full of the impeachment "trial", which is not a real one since the outcome is a forgone conclusion. So the media is playing into his hands. The attention given here will serve two purposes:
1) It will diminish another great institution of the U.S. by showing impotence, incompetence and division
2) It will do so publicly, daily, hourly, for every citizen to see and to get sick to the stomach over
After winning Trump will use that coverage against Congress. He will remind "his people" of how "unfair" he was treated - even though he will have been acquitted. He will rile them up against the Senate (they already hate the House). He will strengthen their believe - induced by him - that only he can be trusted, that only he can solve problems.
He will emerge a stronger dictator than before. May God have mercy upon you all...
1
Mitch McConnell and the Republicans are involved in the greatest coverup of crimes committed by any President in the history of the US. Political power is more important to them than their for the country.
10
"I think it is appropriate at this point for me to admonish both the House managers and the President's counsel, in equal terms ,to remember that they are addressing the world's greatest deliberative body," Roberts said at nearly 1 a.m. ET Wednesday, apparently intent on scolding both sides equally.
Wow! The world’s greatest deliberative body? With due respect to Chief Justice Roberts, I don’t ever want to be tried by this uber partisan political body which even at the outset has its leader, McConnell, already brazenly and openly voicing his predetermined bias and cooked/rigged verdict along partisan lines. The “world’s greatest deliberative body” is the ultimate mockery of American justice and rule of law. And this is on world-wide display.
I’m open to changing my dismal and cynical perception of justice at the TOP when I see the minimum and barest ray of light at the end of this trial.
Can anyone imagine being judged fairly by a impartial jury of one's peers in any court anywhere after this?
1
I think Manager Schiff can be brilliant, but I had to turn him off for awhile as he is being so repetitive, risking turning off public interest. Certainly the video footage of some of the brave witnesses is extremely effective, more please. Also, the use of some of the other House Managers to present evidence could provide some forceful variety. Lest some doubt my attention span; I have listened to hours and days of the Impeachment inquiry and Senate trial. I hope the House Managers' plans to use their members and evidence are well crafted, with the best to air in Prime Time!
3
Schiff is the most gifted and wisest orator of our time. No need to yearn for statesmen long past gone. Just appreciate who stands before us.
390
@Mark M
Agreed. I'm both grateful and awestruck by his eloquence, resoluteness, and humility.
115
Joking correct.
2
@Mark M
Schiff is also incredibly boring and in need of editing and brevity. of course he is probably also running to replace Nancy
4
I’m a moderate Dem, can’t stand Trump. Just to provide some context.
Here’s how I see this - if Trump had just admitted what he’d done (holding up aid for Ukraine’s military in exchange for an investigation on the Bidens) and admitted it was out of bounds for a President, this would have all gone away.
But Trump can’t admit a mistake, so now we’re left with weeks and months of partisan bickering and procedure for a predetermined outcome, acquittal.
The allegations ARE serious, not a hoax or a scam. Enough to remove him from office? Sadly. No.
What really burns me is the time wasted on determining the next Dem nominee. Now THAT is an issue worthy of our consideration.
21
Are you saying it’s ok for Trump to break the law so long as he admits he did so and he should not have done soo? Trump can’t admit a mistake but he is not above the law.
2
The President of the United States tried, and almost succeeded, in forcing a foreign country to interfere in our election. If that’s not impeachable, what is?
4
What law did he break?
2
What’sbthe point of watching this trial if it is already known that Republicans are going to dismiss every single argument and to disregard any evidence?
24
@Reader Maybe some Republicans will listen to the evidence/arguments and conclude Trump is guilty of abusing his office. Not holding my breath, though. Also, we need the trial for the historical record.
8
@Reader It's not Senate's job to help the House get evidence, they made their bed, now they can lay in it. It's sad that you think that the Senate has to change their rules to what the Democrats want. If the shoe was on the other foot, it would be the same argument, let the people decide and stop wasting our tax payers dollars on this nonsense.
1
@Reader
Similar to watching the farce in the House which was an impeachment which was not compliant with the Constitution. The Democrats continue to put nails in their 2020 coffin.
Senate republicans are destroying our democracy. Where is the outrage? Where are the protests? I am not inspired to even vote in 2020...what’s the point, I have no confidence it won’t be rigged. I truly give up.
40
@Cat
I think part of the problem is one of the first cuts in education was civics classes. There's an entire generation of people who have no idea how the government is supposed to work. I am astounded when I talk to people in their 30s and younger who are smart, educated, "woke" but believe the system is rigged and to vote is to co-sign on the rigging. Our democracy is in deep trouble.
28
@Cat
Republicans know that most people trust them to do their job, and are busy with their own lives.
Republicans also know that if people trust you, you can easily betray that trust if you have a mind to.
Too many Americans are uninvolved and uninformed, leaving the country vulnerable to unscrupulous characters who would abuse heir power - people like Moscow Mitch McConnell, Donald Trump, and other complicit Republican Senators.
16
@Cat in California Yes, it is dispiriting...we feel your pain. I urge you to not let cynicism overwhelm you. Protests are limited in impact in this mediasphere. Get involved at your local level. Organize, volunteer, donate, write articles, call your representatives, and vote. And, don't just call to complain. When you catch them doing something right, call your reps and thank them for fighting for our democracy. In other words, show up and use your voice. Democracy is a constant battle - always has been, always will be. Get in the groove, it wil make you feel better - guaranteed.
15
Ukrainia has over 1.5 million business companies and hundreds of thousands of them are known to have acted corruptly. Yet Trump falsely claims to have been "rooting out corruption" in Ukrainia even though he focused his interest solely on Burisma - the one that Hunter Biden advised. Trump's defense is a sham and all 100 senators must realize it by now.
92
Politicians have only one concern - their own survival. Therefore, their priorities are:
1) My voters block and campaign donors. Can’t afford to alienate them.
2) My party
3) My ideology and hubris
4) ? There isn’t much room left for my country and constitution.
As, George Bush once said, “in the long run, we are all dead”. Meaning, my priority is now. Can’t afford to think about long term. (In retrospect, George Bush was a nice guy)
8
@Neil Aggarwal: No, Bush isn't a nice guy. He's not as bad as Trump (who is?), but I won't ever forget the awful things he did, the wars he started.
2
Can someone explain why Roberts doesn't think presiding over an impeachment is important enough to take a day off work?
31
Andrew Roberts, the Supreme Court hears a couple of hours of arguments in the mornings on many days. Rescheduling the arguments puts a burden on the parties and the court. Much better for John Roberts to take that time to attend to his real job.
Looking at their calendar after today there are no more arguments scheduled until February 24, so John Roberts will be able to more easily focus on the impeachment trial. Though his duties there are perfunctory.
That just goes to show how silly this is. The House, the Senate, and the Supreme Court do have important jobs to do. And they waste their time on this.
3
@Andrew Roberts
What is the basis for your comment? The impeachment hearing was, I believe, scheduled for 1 p.m. If so, that he he went to his office as he would in the normal course says something about his work ethic as I can confirm from a former partner of his. The Espinoza case whose oral argument Roberts heard raises a particularly important Establishment Clause case.
3
@Andrew Roberts The Senate set the rules that each day begins at 1:00 pm. Chief Justice Roberts could either sleep late or go to the Supreme Court to preside over arguments there.
1
I hate to break it to everyone who is paying attention to this trial, but everyone already knows the outcome so basically the Democrats are spitting in the wind.
As far as Bolton is concerned he should just give a news conference and tell everyone what he knows that is important to the impeachment trial. If he does that, he will be called just so he could go under oath and be cross examined.
44
@NYChap
I doubt that Bolton really cares enough.
4
@NYChap Agreed. But this needs to be on the record. Bolton seems to be playing the prima donna.
6
@Grove
It really does depend on what is in it for him.
2
Well, Rep. Schiff has just effectively announced that the case against Trump will include evidence regarding his efforts to solicit Russian interference in the 2016 election. Someone better get word to Robert Mueller that he may be on the witness stand again.
32
@Jay Orchard
Mueller can not be trusted, nor his report, if he failed to indict Trump based on Justice Department policy alone.
4
@PATRICK : What you don't or refuse to understand is that Muller's legal duty was, just like any other law enforcement officer, to investigate whether there is evidence that a crime may have been committed. It is up the the Prosecutor's Office to file charges and try the case.
You are blaming the wrong people. The Justice Department is the only Federal Agency that can file charges under federal law.
8
Jay Orchard, putting Bob Mueller on the stand again would be elder abuse. Not going to happen.
4
McConnell's defense that witnesses are irrelevant because Trump's act was not technically a crime is nothing but hooey.
Suppose a new witness came forward today with credible evidence that made Trump look innocent? (I know, a stretch.) We all know that McConnell would let that witness testify in a heartbeat.
114
@Jenny Witnesses are certainly irrelevant when the objective is to obstruct justice.
9
@Jenny After three years of harassment, continuing to attempt to undo an election by any means is hooey.
Why are Democrats so un-democratic? Bad ideas and bad candidates?
4
@Mmpack12 I don't get this notion. Undoing an election? Hillary Clinton doesn't suddenly get to become President if Trump is convicted in the Senate. The Republicans will still control the White House. So what's this "undo an election" rubbish?
27
The biggest game that Trump is playing is one he is best known for in the business world - tying up any demand for justice in the courts until those seeking redress finally drop the lawsuits because of the cost - settling for pennies on the dollar or just walking away without any redress. Don't forget that there was eventually only 1 bank that would give him a loan.
He and his Republican henchmen - McConnell and his fellow Republicans - voted down 11 amendments last night while the President's legal eagles berated the House managers for not getting the documents and testimony during their inquiry. How could they?
President Trump forbade anyone in the White House and in any department who was issued a subpoena to testify and mandated every government agency to refuse any request for documents. He was basically saying "sue me," knowing that any lawsuits would be tied up in the courts for years and that his henchmen would give up their freedom of speech because they knew too much.
I also noted Trump's crew of 18 (10 attorneys - all carefully chosen by Trump (many of whom have probably handled his business dealings for years) plus Mr. Jordan, Mr. Meadows and Mr. Ratcliffe, and Representatives Doug Collins of Georgia, Mike Johnson of Louisiana, Debbie Lesko of Arizona, Elise Stefanik of New York and Lee Zeldin of Texas House Republicans who will “provide guidance and appear as surrogates.”) versus the 7 House managers ,all of whom I believe are also attorneys.
13
@Joy 18 versus the Dems house majority seems fair.
1
Schiff-does the Homework, His equations add up, Presents with Class, Head and Shoulders above embarrassing Trump Defense--Serves His Country well.
459
@That's What She Said
But if the Republican majority is determined to serve Trump over country and Constitution, it won’t matter.
11
@Grove
Yes, but it is good to see someone you can respect. The past three years have been like falling into a rat-infested sewer.
33
@Les I hope Schiff is written in our history books as the most honest person our Government has had in generations.
17
Nixon “ when the President does it, that means it is not illegal..” let’s see what will happen in 2020....
11
@Thérèsenyc1 Agreed, let's stop the nonsense and wait for the 2020 election.
" 'What are [Republicans] afraid of? They're going to hear evidence that they don't like? They must be afraid of something,' Conway told Tapper, referring to Republicans' refusals on witnesses and evidence. 'And that's the thing that I find most disturbing about it, is they don't want to hear the evidence because they know the truth. They know he's guilty. And they don't want to hear the evidence because they don't want the American people to see it too.' " (Conservative Lawyer George Conway, CNN, 22Jan2020)
225
@Steve Kennedy: What are the Republicans afraid of? Are you serious?
McConnell, Jordan, and any other Republican Senator up for reelection, is terrified that Trump will torpedo them, unless they have his backside.
Trump meanwhile, is afraid of the risk of indictments and jail time, once he's out of office.
Think of this as the small fish being eaten by the big fish who. sooner or later gets caught.
11
@Steve Kennedy
George should ask his wife Kellyanne not Jake.
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Pure republican corruption. Please, I never want to hear again about moderate republicans. There is no such thing as a moderate within Trumps party or cult. Eleven times the entire republican senate voted along party line to deny any documents, evidence or witnesses. Eleven times! This is a cover-up in every shape, way and form. Forget fake news this is a fake trial. Does anyone need any more proof about the character of everyone of these republican scoundrels. Volunteer and give to democratic senate candidates. Vote for democracy. Vote Blue.
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@Sendan Agreed, let's stop the nonsense and wait for the 2020 election.
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@Mmpack12
That's rich coming from a state which has recently purged its voter rolls. The evangelical junta won't gi e up power no matter what.
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Someday, McConnell will wake up and realise that more than betraying his country, he has betrayed himself. I find it hard to believe he was always the traitor to our democracy he is today.
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Don’t stoop to their level Democrats. It will only distract from your message.
“Chief Justice Roberts scolded both sides, the one of the impeachment managers, Representative Jerrold Nadler of New York, and the White House counsel, Pat A. Cipollone for trading insults. Chief Justice Roberts told them to remain civil and “remember where they are.”
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My only question is why was the "perfect phone call" placed on a highly classified, restricted access in the White House? Wouldn't a perfect call be available for all to hear?
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@Jeff I believe that question was asked and answered months ago. It was an administrative mistake. However, the rough transcript was released to the Committee running the Impeachment Inquiry as soon as they asked for it and also released to the media so the entire transcript would be put out for all to see and not distributed piece meal for political advantage by the Democrats. The problem with releasing private conversation between heads of State is that they would no longer be private and many heads of State would be reluctant to talk in private with any President of the United states.
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@NYChap A little fact check is in order here, I believe. As far as I am aware, a complete word for word transcript of this call has never been released. Seems more than a little suspicious that the word "Burisma" does not appear in the version released by the White House.
We only know that Burisma was mentioned in the call because LTC Vindman testified under oath that he heard it mentioned.
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@NYChap
The entire transcript was NOT released; it was a summary of the call.
Convenient “error” to put it on the secret server.....which has happened on multiple occasions.
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Mr. Trump said. “What happens if he reveals what I think about a certain leader, and it’s not very positive? And then I have to deal on behalf of the country?”
What?! trump has denigrated nearly all the leaders of US friends and foes alike (with the exception of V Putin and MBS). What on earth could Bolton possibly say that would make international negotiations by this president more difficult than they are already?
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@Paco varela
Trump makes nasty comments about everyone, and loves to slap on insulting labels. It is not too big a stretch to imagine he has insulted or labeled perhaps Putin or MBS. He wouldn't want his words getting back to those leaders and have to explain.
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@Paco varela
There is a simple remedy that previous administrations have used for that problem. A white house lawyer can sit in on the testimony and stop public questions that would reveal state secrets (and other stuff that would damage US if revealed to the public). This was the main reason that the house investigation was conducted in closed session and transcripts released later (after they had been combed over for such information). Such questions would be answered in closed sessions.
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With the delivery of two articles of impeachment against President Trump, the next stage was administering an oath of impartiality to the Senators as jurors in his impeachment trial. But would they be impartial? Now that the trial is underway, with evidence pro and con being argued, it proves salutary to remind the Senators of their sworn promise to vote their conscience. To boost their motivation, the Senators should recall Thomas More’s words in MAN FOR ALL SEASONS:
Margaret More to her father: God more regards the thoughts of the heart than the words of the mouth, or so you've always told me.
Thomas: Yes.
Margaret: Then say the words of the oath and in your heart think otherwise.
Thomas: What is an oath then but words we say to God? When a man takes an oath, Meg, he's holding his own self in his hands like water. And if he opens his fingers then — he needn't hope to find himself again.
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@Joseph Roccasalvo
A Man for All Seasons has much to say to us these days. I will be writing my senators about Wales, and Donald Trump.
@Joseph Roccasalvo But greed is their god. Republicans are perfectly fine with lying, cheating and attacking anyone with moral character as long as they keep their job, their pension, their health care and their perks. Your tax dollars at work-- for them!
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@Mua Yes, for SOME Republicans, not all. I would prefer not to generalize a whole party's intent. But your points are well taken.
How incredibly shameful and embarrassing for a Chief Justice to scold any individual involved in this trial, much less telling them to "remain civil and to remember where they are."
It's bad enough that the eyes of the world are watching this horrible situation unfold without a Supreme Court Justice having to be a referee and "hall monitor" because some members lack the respect, professionalism and demeanor expected of them.
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Marge Keller, it was Jerry Nadler who started it. Blame him.
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@John Smithson
With all due respect Mr. Smithson, it's not about who started it, but rather both participated in such rancor.
This isn't grade school.
NEITHER one should have gone down that road - period. They were both wrong in doing so.
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Someone needs to tell the Chief Justice that he is presiding over the farcical end of the American experiment in self government.
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@Jack Selvia
He knows that.
If he doesn’t speak up and do the right thing, he will have an ugly mark against him in the history books. I hope he honors his responsibility to his oath, to the constitution, and to the American people. If he continues to hide behind a sham “neutrality,” he brings shame on himself as the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, as a Republican, and as an honorable man.
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Whatever the House Managers decide to present as part of their arguments against Trump, the potential boredom of Senators should not be a consideration. Given that the Republican Senators have no intention of voting to convict Trump no matter what, they must already be bored.
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@Jay Orchard We're all bored! Saying the same old things over and over again in a different venue doesn't make it interesting.
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There may be an obvious answer to this ("...senators will have up to 16 hours ask questions..."), but if there are no witnesses, who are they questioning?
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@RW The House managers?
RW, they are questioning the House managers and the president's lawyers.
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Watching the Senate impeachment trial proceedings and seeing how Republican Senators have made it clear that they have no interest in finding out the truth, let alone responding to it appropriately, I can't help but think that foreigners view the current US Senate as no different than a legislature in a dictatorship, which does nothing more than "rubber stamp" its approval of the dictator's decrees. And they wouldn't be wrong.
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@Jay Orchard I agree: the GOP and its well-named “base” has insisted that we become a dictatorship, that we reject our founding Constitution. Putin’s Russia has won the Cold War by enlisting the worst of our human tendencies, the desire to win, to have a God-Man, to scapegoat Others, and to be contemptuous of those who disagree with us.
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Trump lashed out from a snowy resort 4,000 miles away-
“He knows some of my thoughts, he knows what I think about leaders,” Mr. Trump said. “What happens if he reveals what I think about a certain leader, and it’s not very positive? And then I have to deal on behalf of the country?”
Easy fix.... just say you never met the leader, you don't know anything about him, maybe the leader is a good guy - maybe not...
Works every time.
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@PW that was a good laugh--thanks!
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If someone paid to watch this show, they’d demand to get their money back. There is no second act! Democrats, using what they were able to piece together while working around obstruction by the White House, are presenting a case. The “defense” is using the, “oh, yeah, so what” strategy so there is not now and will be no second act. Want a fair trial? Make the final vote a secret ballot!
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Out of the entire American population, only a small percentage will choose to watch these proceedings, which is simplyly a dog & pony show. It is nothing even close to the number of people who watched the Watergate Hearings; pluse the subsequent resignation of President Nixon. What a shame that is. Even worse, what a disgrace the McConnell-rigged Senate Republicans are.
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Easy Goer, it's very similar to the Bill Clinton trial, but with the roles reversed. That trial too was a joke. The outcome was foreordained. The proceedings were boring. Both sides argued over the trivial while bellowing of its importance.
You blame the Republicans but they were to blame 20 years ago for making a mockery of impeachment. This time around it is the Democrats who are doing it. Blame them.
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@Easy Goer
Not here in my area (a lot of retires) watched it from start to finish last night. I have not stayed awake that long in many years but it was worth it. The democrats house managers were at the top of their game. You could not say the same about trump lawyers - they seem to not be prepared at all.
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@Easy Goer Even worse: the three years of collusion harassment that went nowhere.
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OK, McConnell's received updated marching orders today from Trump. Trump said he “can live either way” with the Senate’s decision on whether to call witnesses for his historic impeachment trial.
So, McConnell has no impediment now to call witnesses, does he? McConnell, go ahead and call any four under the sun. For the democrats, why not call Bolton, Pompeo, Mulvaney, Duffey from OMB, and McCusker from DOD?
You can still meet your other obligations to Trump - finish the trial in less than two weeks, then acquit...
What is your beef with that? Oh, forgot...you're against letting the chips fall where they may....
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Ed, how can the Senate call witnesses and still finish the trial within two weeks? That would be impossible.
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@John Smithson
Not a difficult problem to solve. Take the time it takes for all the facts to be found. You want to be fair to Trump, don't you?
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So far it seems as if the White House defense team also has 53 attorneys sitting on their hands but working for them all the same.
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Amazing that this trial is going to be decided by Senators who represent a minority of the country and from states that would look like third world countries if not for subsidies from the liberal states that the President and his party of Evangelical bigots despise.
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@Sterling Do you want a country or not?
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@Mmpack12 honestly, as it is now, not really, not like this.
As a Californian, we really don't need most of the rest of this country. And I'm sick to death of this tyrannical minority, spearheaded by odious, craven men like Mitch McConnell, dictating to the majority of this country what this country should look like.
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@Mmpack12
What an odd question, completely off topic from Sterling's clear and truthful statement.
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Please let Trump find his way to the hearings in person.
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It appears as thought the GOP Senators have succeeded in pulling the wool over their own eyes. We see this for what it is: a cover up, a sham trial. They see it as their only choice- to follow the party line, to aid in the cover up, to do what they have to do to remain in their seats.
Mitch McConnell will go down in history as orchastrating this and that will be his legacy.
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No, Mitch’s legacy will be the hundreds of new federal judges he’s been able to get approved in the Senate since Trump’s election. Dems have noone to compare in his ability to do that.
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@Wes
Maybe ol' Mitch has been promised a lifetime position if he gets Trump off. What does he care about 'legacy'?
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@Wes
During his tenure, and courtesy of his Chinese mole wife, McConnell has become a multi-millionaire.
Do you think any of these hacks consider their legacy? In a world where the attention span is twenty seconds, and historical memory no longer exists, a "legacy" has an expiration date of about two weeks. This is all about money, and remaining plugged in to the plutocrat-funded GOP retirement program. Play ball, and upon retirement from a job in which you did absolutely nothing for years, but still collect a handsome pension, you can be a college president, a lobbyist, a think tank fellow, or a talking head on Fox. These weasels are just twiddling their thumbs until they can cash in.
9
The media is drumming this up obviously because it drives advertising dollars.
But there is really no point to this as we all know the outcome.
Congress should be passing laws and doing something worthwhile but having useless debates is what they normally do so I guess this impeachment thing is just par for the course.
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@Jay Peters
No offense. But what you put into it is what you get out of it, and I, for one am putting my time into it.
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@Jay Peters
I don’t buy the argument that it’s ok to be lazy about participation in democracy, or that we should all be bored by these proceedings. That is how demagogues succeed. The faction of of a dumbed down education-averse electorate that chose a reality TV personality for the most important office in the land is how we got here, and how we’ve endangered our republic. You don’t want to hold this batch of spineless cool-aid guzzling republican sell-outs’ feet to the fire? Fine. Turn the channel and watch sit-coms. We’ll see how that approach informs votes in the fall.
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@Jay Peters Please stop blaming the media for doing their job. The outcome being certain is no reason to forgo the process. That Pelosi and the Democrats decided to pursue the matter in the first place was nothing less than Congress stepping up (finally) to perform its duty--in this case the sacred one of protecting our democracy from the actions of an otherwise unaccountable president. This situation is precisely that which the founders anticipated when they wrote the impeachment clause into the Constitution. IF the outcome is certain (acquittal), that is only because the GOP no longer cares about preserving the constitutional republic for which the party (now shamefully) takes its name.
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Words from Magistrate John Roberts :The president is on trial in the Senate, but the Senate is on trial in the eyes of the American people. Will you vote to allow all the relevant evidence to be presented here? Or will you betray your pledge to be an impartial juror?”
534
But... he didn’t say that, though.
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@Jesse S
Yes, but he should.
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@Rick Johnson
Evidence of him withholding the cash to demand an investigation? Evidence or no evidence we know that to be true already. The issue is people just don't think it's a huge deal.
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I think the house managers are making a mistake in droning through the same old mantras. I listen to podcasts such as Amicus and Lawfare, and hear really startling analysis that make me pay attention. Such as: The theory that Trump is putting on the table is that his own justice department, which the president controls, is allowed to define what is and is not criminal conduct, and more importantly what is and is not criminal conduct BY THE PRESIDENT.
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@Ann Trump's aim at dictatorship is obvious to anyone with an ounce of impartiality or integrity. But the mountains of evidence that he has committed impeachable offenses lie as the great obstacle before that distant land of Absolute Power can be conquered and returned to the People of the USA. If ever it can.
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@Ann
Well Adam Schiff just informed us that he is 'down to the last ten minutes'. We'll see. He is SO in love with the sound of his own voice. This presentation could have been much more 'together' and timely, rather than another re-hash.
@Ann Yes, we've heard this before, but not in this forum. It must be presented again now so that it is part of the official record of the Senate trial. History will know what happened here.
8