The China government has expanded the scope of the intra-China travel ban. This may be a sincere effort or just for show to quell international criticism. I presume it to be sincere.
However, travel bans (or quarantines since they are just a very strict travel ban) have often been insufficient when they attempt to prevent what had previously been unfettered movement on land. That insufficiency results from the large amount of resources necessary to enforce the ban and the ease to evade it.
That is why it is essential that the US close its borders to non-US citizens arriving from China or who have been to China within the 30 days prior to arrival at our border. The good fortune of being separated from China by oceans in both directions makes enforcement of a full ban by the US relatively easy so long as our "friend", the Canadian government led by Trudeau, does not frustrate our efforts by intentionally allowing travelers from China to enter Canada and then sneak into the US to evade our limited northern border checks.
It is crucial that a travel ban be instituted immediately while the infection can still be contained. Where is Trump? Why is he flitting around in Europe and ignoring the health threat we face? Trump must not be like Obama who inflicted Ebola on the US by refusing to ban entry to the US from infected countries. Ebola came to the US via a traveler from Liberia allowed by Obama, he died and infected 2 others.
2
There is much more coming on this. It will get much worse before ending.
4
It’s not hard to beat the airport screening measures. Take a max dose of ibuprofen and Tylenol an hour before landing, take a cool washcloth to your forehead as you exit the plane, and you’d breeze through screening. USA should restrict all travel from China immediately.
10
@Scott that is what one Wuhan woman did before her arrival in France, she even shared it on her social media and the embassy had to reach out to her to persuade her to seek medical attention. She even shared how she had a fever and took painkillers to lower her temperature so she could get pass screening.
4
@Scott And you are an expert in.......?
Chinese government has announced to fully cover patients' medical fees for coronavirus. Top medical teams from every other provinces are flying to Wuhan to help.
13
This would never happen in the United States.
2
Has anyone else read “The Stand” by Stephen King?
...
I’ll wait.
15
@Selena Coul
I haven’t, but at a colleague’s request I read the opening page of one of his novels once. That was more than enough of his writing for me.
2
@Selena Coul
Except, King postulated an unusually virulent Influenza strain, mutating much more rapidly than usual. That's not like coronaviruses.
Now, 'flu. That's scary. I looked after an 18 year old - a previously fit young woman - in rural Norfolk in 1982. Flu killed her in 24 hours, despite everything we could do back then. I'd forgotten about her until 2009 when H1N1(Mexico) jammed London's hospitals with acutely ill youngsters. On one day, there wasn't a single free ICU bed in the whole greater London area (popn. 8 million). Patients were being transported out by helicopter 50 or more miles to places like Portsmouth and Oxford.
2
Chinese lie about a deadly contagious epidemic to “save face”. Now, Trump expects Chinese to play fair in business for the first time ever in history? Chinese have been cheating on the WTO agreement since day 1. The recent trade war was a chance in a lifetime to get a pathological liar nation to be forced into honest trade. Trump blew it; the intellectual property section of the Phase 1 agreement is a joke. Hundreds of billions wasted to achieve nothing. Trade with China is suicide.
6
@ABC Dude, now isn't the time
37
Coronavirus is excluded under my employers plan so I upped my cremation plan. Good to be prepared.
24
Yes, this is all to crazy...but, I felt like I was rewarded with humor for reading this entire article and ending on the last two sentences. I appreciate that.
1
This is just more evidence that the Chinese Communist Party is incompetent. The fact the flu has started at all shows the dreadful public health standards in China. What's more the restrictions should have been put in place more than a week ago.
1
Some comments here made me sad. The virus doesn’t care if you are rich or poor.It doesn’t care if you are Chinese, America, Mexico, Iran, or whatever you nationality is. It kills human. Your political view, bias about certain race and government, has no meaning to the virus.This is a fight between human and virus, live and death.
Some Facts:
- Chineses new year is like Christmas in western.
- Wuhan has population over 11 Million. New York City has around 8 millions.
- last year during this time, More than 30 Million people departure, arrived, or interchanged at WuHan.
- Think about all people in New York City come and go 4 times and you get the idea
- Given that size, even the virus has only 1% chanced to be infected, there will be 300,000 people.
The Chinese government choose to Locks down one of their largest city, during their most important holidays. It is a hard choice, but a responsible one. They know the damage this will cause, but they are not risking other's life.
Now all top medical teams and professionals given up their holidays, fly to Wuhan to fight the virus. The government announced they will fully cover all cost of the treatment. The mask factory making masks and necessary equipments around the clock. Donations poured from other parts of China into the city.
This is not about Chinese guys, this is about human, about life. This is a war between human and virus. And the front line is now at Wuhan, China.
Please, at least be respectful, to human beings.
44
In my 30 short years on Earth, there have been at least 2 diseases that have threatened to become pandemics and wipe out humanity. Neither one did.
We will be fine
1
This is exactly the kind of thing our president is incapable of handling.
1
The situation in Wuhan could get worse if the coronavirus is coming from pork. Can China assure us the coronavirus isn't coming from that nation's pigs that are already infected with African Swine Fever Virus? www.africanswinefever.com
Masks should be commonplace during epidemics. The Japanese do it.
Wuhan just opened its new bio lab level 4. Coincidence?
1
http://thenationshealth.aphapublications.org/content/49/3/1.2
I suggest every republican voter and fan of President Trump carefully read his budget slashes for the CDC. Please note in particular the 102 million dollar slash for emerging zoonotic diseases. How exactly do you propose the CDC should deal with diseases like WURS? Before you vote blindly, make sure that you are not cutting off your own nose to spite your face.
1
A cordon sanitaire that the PLA will erect similar to a BSL. A biosafety level is a set of biocontainment precautions required to isolate dangerous biological agents in an enclosed laboratory facility.
Enclose a city like a laboratory is Dada Xi’s “Great Wall” gift to Wuhan.
1
A friend, PhD in Chemistry in Wuhan now for the Spring Festival... he told me when I travel back to GD province in February that I should wear goggles and a mask on the plane... not sure if this is panic or something that needs to be heeded... I might just pick up a pair of reading glasses in any case.
2
Read this from Weibo that an esteemed respiratory disease expert from Beijing contracted the novel coronovirus himself when visiting Wuhan city hospitals, even though he wore protective clothing and masks all the time. He’s now recovered, but he’s theorized he was infected because he did not wear a protective goggle when visiting an ER. The virus could probably invade human bodies through the eyes.
This is scary stuff. Many, especially in Hong Kong, remember the Sars outbreak in Hong Kong in the early 2000s which caused many deaths and international fear. I agree with one person's view how the Chinese government might be downplaying the current exposure and figures. That is the sad state of affairs with how the government treats their people.
Furthermore, if the government is shutting down transportation right before Chinese New Year, things must be really bad. I just hope it's mostly contain, despite how I feel sorry for the Wuhan people. But what matters is the containment mostly stays in a specific area, and it doesn't spread or mutate in other countries. So far the cases have been very limited outside of China. and hopefully it stays that way.
33
A little late to try to use containment methods given that it’s already spread beyond the limits of Wuhan. Given china’s propensity for mis-information there’s not telling how many people are actually infected with this virus. My dad has a friend who’s relative had died from SARS although at the time we didn’t know it was SARS. It wasn’t until people in Vancouver had died from the virus that it came to light.
46
I'm not an epidemiolgist. I don't have any aspiration to be one. However, these travel restrictions make little sense to me. The disease has already spread beyond Wuhan. So why are they only considering restricting travel out of that single area? By now the disease has spread way beyond. Why not restrict travel out of the country period!
60
@Old Expat Probably too late for a travel restriction out of region. We're hearing about this rapidly now, but been in play in China for a minute. Had already left China 3 weeks ago...now in USA.
6
@Old Expat I work in this field, and the travel restrictions make little sense at this point. However, they could possibly slow the epidemic a little and buy time... but it's not as though we've bothered developing vaccines for any of the other coronaviruses that infect us regularly. At least this variant doesn't look too virulent.
10
@Sean Berry - Yes, its in the U.S. already but the patient didn't get very sick. The only reason he even thought about going to the hospital with his cough was because he had just returned for Wuhan and saw it on the news. The only reason they are still keeping him in the hospital is for observation. They kept him in a hospital in a small city to the north rather than taking him to UW or Harborview Hospital which run circles around the hospital where he is at.
2
Within a few weeks of a respiratory infection outbreak with an unknown etiology, China has been able to sequence the DNA of a Coronavirus in Wuhan is a major first step. Let's hope they will able to identify the animal host soon and contain any further spread of the infection.
I am not down play the seriousness of any new deadly respiratory virus that transmits from person to person and should be vigilant. In a wider perspective, influenza affects 5-20 percent of US population. According to CDC, the average annual death is 56,000. In 2018 influenza season, the death toll were 80,000.
6
Given the relative opacity of China's response, and the extremely draconian measures suddenly taken, I'm getting the feeling this outbreak is FAR worse than China is letting on.
Seeing a picture of someone with a can of disinfectant doesn't fill me with a strong sense of confidence. China is still in the process of culling over 25% of their pig population from an epidemic of swine flu, and they have also had repeated cases of avian flu as well. Its pretty clear China doesn't have a very good track record when it comes to infectious diseases.
I would ban everyone from flights originating from or transiting through China immediately until this scare is over.
3
This is a responsible approach not only for the good of Chinese citizens, but for the rest of the world. In this day and age of the rise of superbugs, and vaccines which know no cure, better get used to the idea of self imposed restriction of movement.
In a similar vein, Vaccinations should be required for all shcools, and anti vaccers and their kids, should not be allowed to attend school.
2
In China, the nationwide household registration system (Hukou) utilizes ubiquitous residence permit to control nationals’ mobility. Without a hukou, poor migrants might not have access to internet or the city’s healthcare system. They might be left in the dark, unaware of the seriousness of the outbreak or the preventive measures promoted online. We mustn't forget these invisible people in a society.
5
You have been spilling a lot of misinformation/disinformation about China and Hong Kong around the comments on NYT. Almost everyone, including poor migrants, has smartphones (very cheap) in China. Almost everyone has to use WeChat (a social media platform with endless functions like Facebook Twitter PayPal Uber Grubhub Fandango...) and mobile payment. It’s a de facto cashless society. The internet and mobile technology is much more ubiquitous, and by some measures more sophisticated, in China than in the US. It’s undeniable that the central government in China is authoritarian and many local governments could be quite corrupt and inept, but China is not a deadbeat monotony. It’s a huge country with a lot of complexities and variant phases of development from place to place. Developed cities in richer part of the country are fairly liberal, by some measures are even more efficiently and sophisticatedly run than New York, while some inner parts can be quite repressive backwaters.
I don’t worry about cities like Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou and Shenzhen. But Wuhan is in the middle of inner China and local bureaucracy has been found trying to cover up the severity of the disease at the beginning and shown general ineptness. But increasing scrutiny by the general public and intervention from the central government forced Wuhan government to open up about everything going on there. 2020 is not 2003, and China is a rapidly developing country. A lot has changed there.
Is this merely hysteria? SARS killed 800 worldwide, is that substantial. Any guess as to the number of “regular” flu deaths in US alone in 2017-2018 season? Ready? 80,000. That’s not a typo, look it up. Scores of thousands die every year in US from flu. Take precautions, get flu shot but let’s not overreact.
4
My friend's family lives right next to the hospital. Two healthy adults and two healthy young children have not set foot outside of their apartment for days. Fear of getting infected, they are trapped. My friend talks to her family every day. They have cancelled New Years Eve dinner, which is very significant for every Chinese family. Without transportation, people are worrying about food supply besides the spread of the virus. I hope the government has a plan for this quarantine. I hope residents are not being isolated and abandoned.
5
I hope that people can keep the following in their mind when comparing a new epidemic like this one to the flu:
The case fatality rate of influenza A H1N1, the most common cause of the 2009 flu pandemic, is less than 0.1%, or 1 in 1,000 people.
The case fatality rate of SARS is about 15%, or 1 in 7 people.
While both are highly contagious diseases, the latter is much more serious.
I also hope that Western media like the NYT can live up to their integrity when something concerning life and death like this happens. While the Wuhan government certainly deserves scrutiny for possible mishandling of the incident, this is NOT the right time for China-bashing solely for ideological purposes.
IMHO, given that the disaster has already occurred, restricting people from traveling outside the city is the best way to prevent the epidemic from further spreading, which could cause even greater economic damages outside Wuhan.
3
During the SARS pandemic, about 8000 people were infected world wide and about 700 death. During the 2017-18 flu season, 7 millions infected, 80000 deaths. Why was it not called a pandemic?
I suspect that the Chinese government is trying to locate the source of virus. And so far, the contaminated animals and its owner are playing hide-and-seek with the government causing frustration to the government officials. Without knowing what caused the problem, the virus could spread fast during the lunar New Year in China.
It is not a smart way to trap the virus. But it is the only way to do effectively when facing such a large population during holiday season. Any traveler could be potential disease carrier. There is no other way without much higher risk to the world.
This is an opportunity to isolate and contain this infection while cure and vaccine are developed. It seems China is making a serious effort. The US should join the effort by banning entry to the US of all non-US citizens who arrive from China or have visited China during the 30 days prior to their arrival at the US border. American citizens returning should be examined upon return and 5 days afterward, and again at 10 days afterward. During the 10 days they should be required to self-quarantine and avoid contact with the public. The returning Americans should be responsible and observe the self-quarantine....not be like the selfish, callous, know-it-all NYC doctor who returned from treating Ebola in Africa and went to restaurants and went bowling while trusted to self-quarantine, then he came down with Ebola.
2
I don’t like conspiracy theories.
But in the age of CRISPR, and where natural resource domination is the goal of all Global Politics...
Does anyone know what China is doing internally as far as various vaccination/public health practices go?
This would be...interesting. Viral engineering is easy. They have huge, isolated populations to experiment on and zero compunction about burning a few for “the greater good” or long term planning for nation state.
A biological vector is ideal in many ways. Very, very hard to blame on a particular actor.
1
What is particular about this virus that the medical community decided to research if it is a new disease? I'm pretty sure if I went to my local urgent care with flu like symptoms, my doctor would not be contacting the CDC to see if I have a new type of virus.
2
No one I know has been infected but everyone has been staying home and being careful.
Hope they get this under control soon and end the lockdown. The rate at which the situation escalated last few days is surprising. I know some people drove out early this morning right before the restriction took effect and escaped.
14
Best of luck to you, Isaac Chow.
Given how the Chinese government has been exerting total surveillance and control over its people (even with its huge population), the virtual incarceration of its Muslim population in Xinjiang as a prevention against sociopolitical unrest,
the fact that there has been little or no real measures taken until now - 2 months (or more) after the initial known outbreak - is a sign of its continuing failure with public health crises, often preferring good PR to serious health policies.
Meanwhile the virus has crossed borders, and been shown to be contagious from person to person; did they have to wait until Hong Kong determined this ?
And given the recent history of such viruses, why do they even still allow markets of live, often wild animals ?
10
Each time a new disease emerges, health authorities need to spring into action on the chance that the new disease might be serious.
The media is always eager to spring into action, too, because stories about new things that might be very bad make the most money.
But, for all the rest of us, let's follow common sense health measures (washing hands, getting enough rest, staying home if not feeling well, etc.) and not get preoccupied with worry.
Most likely, this illness is not going to lead to a big pandemic. Just because health workers need to jump on the case and take extra precautions until they understand the disease, it doesn't mean we need to get stressed out!
13
@Heather
It's easy for you to say that because you're living in California. People here in Hong Kong are petrified. No one believes that the Chinese government is honest, giving the history of the Chinese Communist Regime on handling and lying about SARS in 2003. The SARS outbreak was at its most serious in March of 2003, a month after the Chinese New Year. Four months earlier, in early December, some news outlets had reported that in a couple of towns in Southern Guangdong, all supplies of bleach had been sold out in days. SARS had been around for at least four months before it was identified.
This is likely the case. China lies.
6
@Heather
You obviously have been oblivious to SARS.
2
Easy on an authoritarian country.
2
CDC says 646,000 people die from the flu every year. SARS killed 800 and this one has killed 17.
16
@SXM
Yes, only if you believe the Chinese Communist Regime, giving the track record of lying to the public. Do you remember what happened in 2003? The Chinese Communist officials in Beijing had claimed it had no SARS cases, so when the inspectors from WHO arrived, all the SARS patients were taken out of hospitals and driven around in ambulances while the inspections took place.
Yes, China lies. Is that new to you?
1
It’s interesting to read the comments re what some perceive to be “draconian” measures employed by the government. When there is no transparency and a poor history of communicating similar events who is to say whether the measures are good, bad or otherwise? Is it possible that that with the new year holiday travel about to begin this had to happen? Trying to compare what would happen if you had to shut down this city versus that city is a pointless exercise. That’s not on the table at the moment. Containing a virus is.
3
Surprisingly to see how many people believe it's an negative action. Obviously, many of those people have no idea about the China's situation. Considering the population and the upcoming Spring Festival, I would say the government made the right decision.
As one of the biggest cities in China and an important transportation hub, you can't even imagine how many people would leave Wuhan with the virus: remember, the incubation period of this virus is about 2 weeks. Those travelers will spread the virus to the other cities of China, and even oversea.
Humanity is not a matter here, guys. It's not the correct time to judge this order and talk about humanistic things. In this case, the Chinese government is not only responsible for China but also to the world.
I've read many news, comments, and reports these days. A few days ago, many Chinese people have already started to asking the government to block Wuhan away: just as what they did to Beijing during the Sars period. It's a wish of people.
Seriously, do you really want to see it becomes worse? You guys should try to read something from China and find a more objective viewpoint. It's stupid to pretend that you know everything. And don't relate every single piece of information about China with politics, especially your own political belief.
Thank you.
55
@Ran Agreed completely. This is for the best, though some would say it should have been done earlier.
12
@Ran wrote "...A few days ago, many Chinese people have already started to asking the government to block Wuhan away: just as what they did to Beijing during the Sars period. It's a wish of people."
Amen! This is one of the best comments. Hongkongers have been asking the same thing few weeks ago to stop travelers from Wuhan. We feel it's too late, but it's better than nothing.
3
@Dinnie Lim However, Wuhan government's reaction was too late in this case. Some people have already "escape" from Wuhan and bring the virus to the other areas. I hope the other countries can pay more attention on this virus since it's a global issue, and China can't fight alone.
2
Episodes of contagion are typically only reported once laboratory tests show a precise match between a patient's sample and the identified high-risk pathogen. The result is often serious underreporting even when agencies and governments have the best of intentions.
6
@M Davis
Setting up specific assays for viruses (well, their specific antigens) isn't rocket science these days. I would expect rapid test kits have already been deployed.
Army has sealed all roads to Wuhan. They would not do this unless it's very serious.
13
@S. C.
Surely, you mean "it's being taken seriously"?
I lived and worked at a university in Wuhan from 1990 - 1992. It was my first time in China, it was fascinating, and I became close to several local Chinese people. It's sad to read about what's happening there now. I wish everyone in Wuhan well and hope this coronavirus outbreak is stopped real soon before many more people are adversely affected.
32
My mom’s father fled China during the cultural revolution, so maybe she’s biased, but she told me that whenever the CCP reports a number like this, add a zero to the end of it. “Stability and control. That’s all they care about.” This article shows just a slimmer of what happens when China lose even a little control. It loses hundreds of millions of dollars and its citizens have to be locked down.
10
@John
Your mom is not biased, believe her! This is likely the case. China lies. The same thing happened for SARS in 2003.
3
The Sars epidemic was badly mishandled, which allowed it to spread first to Hong Kong, and then to the rest of the world. I was in China during Sars; the first I heard of it was through word of mouth - people spread the news via text messages; there was no media coverage at all. Later, after grudgingly admitting its existence, authorities announced that the disease was a variant of chlamydia and a cure had been found. A laughable explanation. Later, after weeks of media silence in China, news started to appear in international news outlets of the HK outbreak, with speculation of a connection to the outbreak on the mainland, which of course the government denied.
Eventually, the government and the media, likely because of international pressure, had to admit the reality of what was happening, but by that point the disease had been allowed to spread to many provinces in China and overseas.
So this time they are at least trying to do something. Most people who are travelling will likely have left by now, and there are probably no (good) train tickets left now anyway, so closing the city now is a bit of a moot point. It is also important to appear to be doing something, otherwise news spreads by anecdote, which undermines trust in the authorities, which the government fears as much as the disease itself.
12
It should come as no surprise that people are all too willing to surrender their rights when they're scared. What's more, they're willing to surrender the rights of others. People have been placed in danger both inside and outside Wuhan by this decision.
But who in their right mind thinks that a government wants to *prevent* panic? Governments thrive on the fear of their people. That's how they've got so much support for shutting off an entire city: people are scared, so they care less about their rights. The Singaporean reaction to SARS should terrify people because it's almost 20 years later and technology has progressed in a decidedly dark direction.
China, I'm surprised to remind us, is an authoritarian dictatorship. They're taking steps towards a genocide of Chinese Muslims. They plaster peoples' faces on public buildings when they break a law so that everyone knows to shun them.
People should be more concerned about the breezy violation of human rights than with a disease which, if it's as bad as SARS, will kill less than 1,000 people. I know, I know: the point is to get out ahead of it, right? But we can't react to every potential pandemic with a quarantine of an entire city.
There are reasonable and effective steps to address this without such a draconian order. It's dictatorial and Americans should know better.
10
What qualification do you have to opine on the necessity of the quarantine please?
31
@Andrew Roberts Well thankfully here in America you will have ample opportunity to enjoy your precious "rights" from a hospital bed gasping for breath.
1
Nature - "There's too many of you and you have bad habits. I'll just start in at the center of this overpopulation thing."
20
It's conceit to believe nature likes or dislikes us.
8
It’s just math - too many people in a life boat. All die unless some go over the side in the dark.
I cannot imagine what would happen if a similar situation arises and uncle Sam cordons off a city for the sake of the country or world at large? First, paper bullets from the mainstream medium will be flying over 24by7 about the violation of human and civil rights and the court will be flooded with law-suits with injunction requests. In addition, the NRA member may even stage an arm insurrection with their automatic rifles and ammo like the mob during the French revolution.
24
Another reason - besides political coercion and general disrespect for human rights - why China should be on everybody’s “Do Not Travel List” - hopefully they’ll find a cure.
16
The birds will survive when the mammals go extinct. And some will eventually revert to being ground dwelling dinosaurs, and grow very large. If they are wise, they will stamp out anything that looks like it might turn into a primate.
155
@Joe Runciter
Fact check: there's nothing to suggest mammals will go extinct, nor that if they did, birds would be saved. There's nothing to suggest that if birds *were* saved, they'd become dinosaurs, because that's not how evolution works. However, I agree with your conclusion: humans are dangerous.
14
@Andrew Roberts
OTOH evolution doesn't have a direction. Anything is possible . . .
2
@Joe Runciter This is the most profoundly funny comment. Thanks! And thanks for the laughs!
2
We have over 7.6 billion people on this planet. Many people don’t even believe in vaccines. We will see how the numbers add up. Perhaps if it spreads enough and the number of moralities exponentially increases, the world will focus more on similarities among humans instead of differences. A super virus that affects all humans has the best chance of brining the world together
9
@Chandler
Better - A giant squid materializes in NYC.
36
@Chandler
“ . A super virus that affects all humans has the best chance of brining the world together”
Behavior during previous plagues and pandemics throughout history does not support this assertion.
41
You’re right. Probably nothing does. Our species is doomed
At least the Chinese are doing something, unlike their non reaction to the Swine Flu in which 200 million and counting pigs have died. 200 million plus folks!
9
I'd like to see an article detailing why every single "bird flu' like virus starts in CHINA?! (or at very least Southeast Asia).
What the heck is going on over there that we deal with one of these scary out breaks every 5 years? Whats the deal with people and chickens and birds over there that make it susceptible to these types of illnesses?
14
Have a look at this:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/4135122/ns/health-infectious_diseases/t/asia-traditional-cradle-influenza/
6
@Bird Bird has the Word. thx.
3
@Ignatius J. Reilly
The NBCnews article mentioned by the other reader 'Bird' explains why Asia is a cradle of influzenza.
It's also worth pointing out through consumption of wildlife, hosts of many dangerous viruses, allowed viruses to jump to human beings. This explains why many diseases such as Wuhan RS, SARS, Zika, Ebola, and AIDS originated in the Far East or Africa because people in these regions have the tradition of comsuming wildlife.
Wuhan RS: wildlife (China)
SARS: bat, civet (China)
Zika: monkey (Uganda)
Ebola: fruit bat, monkey (South Sudan, DR Congo)
AIDS: ape, monkey (DR Congo)
Experts predict that with climate change, more global traveling, more exploration of exotic caves (where many bats reside) and more human contact with wildlife through consumption; we likely will see more new dangerous pathogens been transmitted to humans.
Just trying to imagine the US closing off a city, perhaps NYC, banning all transport into and out of it. And requiring all inhabitants to wear masks. Almost impossible to imagine being able to do this here.
8
@Greenie Yes. What about food and medicine?
Flu kills more a year and it barely gets reported.
5
@John Llort
Yep ..... but it's the enemy we know & have learned to live with (intended) vs. the enemy we don't know that spreads rapidly via live birds & tweets.
2
Why worry? The world’s foremost expert on the coronavirus, Donald Trump, said that President Xi has everything “under control.” The esteemed Dr. Trump is also the leading authority on concussions and other brain injuries and said that the injuries sustained by soldiers who were under attack in Iraq were no bigly deal. So why worry?
28
Some of your comments are comical but hard to laugh when people are dying!
1
Chinese doctors are being told by WeChat message not to disclose coronavirus cases in their hospitals.
15
This must be a horrifying situation for the Chinese, and certainly for the rest of us. My question is, how does setting up a station at the airport to check coughing and temperature help anyone? What is there are carriers who are not yet manifesting illness?
8
@Anitakey The Economist reported they found an infected person at Bangkok airport using one of these detectors. They're not perfect obviously, but it seems they're still useful, this person would have just walked on out otherwise. Probably saved some lives.
Imagine US authorities shutting down all flights, trains, and buses to New York City. And all subways, buses, ferries trains and within the city. At Christmas. That is the scope of this.
20
@Steve B
Wuhan is not New York City. If you want to compare, Atlanta is a better choice.
1
Could the United States have done this? I don't think so. There are times when totalitarianism is better.
12
Maybe the universe is trying its best to wipe out a predatory, destructive species. Human beings.
10
Can we believe the information China is providing?
Others from China or with close ties there have said these numbers are low - 'add at least a zero to the totals'
16
To stop airborne disease, two most effective steps are quick quarantine of individual patients, and emphasis of individual hygience such as the use of mask and frequent hand wash.
Since WURS (WUhan Respiratory Syndrome) is close relative of SARS, it likely has a similar incubation period of 2-7 days. This means the real number of cases are likely much higher than what has already been reported by the authority. Unfortunately this outbreak coincides with the Lunar New Year, which means we likely will see a rapid increase of new cases in the coming weeks.
Quarantine of a huge highly mobilized urban city such as Wuhan is not only impractical in terms of logistics, it might result in uncontrolled outflow of panic unknowing patients (without obvious symtoms) to sneak out. Hopefully the authority has learned their lessons from the SARS outbreak and will be better prepared this time around.
10
@ The F.A.D. I can appreciate your view. Selling live wild animals and then brutally killing them while the customer waits is twisted. But then again, I have to admit that our treatment of ‘livestock’ isn’t much better.
12
This won't work out well for humanity. This isn't Ebola. When you try to control everything, you will be reminded you don't.
9
The spread of infectious diseases by those who consume various types of animals is the issue. The Chinese government must get this under control and try to shut down all avenues of selling these diseased animals.
16
could NEVER HAPPEN here! too Hollywood...oh wait...too late; darn~
5
Why is anyone being allowed to travel?
9
"history’s pillar of shame."
Oh, you mean that thing on which the Chinese Communist Party has permanent banner advertising?
9
Given their very late start at effective measures, this will probably be much too little, much too late. Think of the amount of air and ground travel from this region since the first hint of an outbreak weeks ago. WHO better be prepared for the outbreak of a possible pandemic.
9
Think how bad this must be to close off
Wuhan.
China did not respond to this early enough and travelers were allowed to come and go for weeks while authorities argued that this was only transmitted from animals to humans.
I would bet the doctors involved knew better from the start.
This illness originated from village markets where people are allowed to buy and consume animals of all kinds, wild and domestic, with no government oversight.
Nothing is done to chastise the Chinese government while the entire world population is put at risk because authorities won't close down these filthy village markets.
It makes me angry. China is not held responsible for their lax behaviors.
Swine flu in China has caused millions of pigs to be slaughtered because they did not respond quickly enough and this swine disease is moving throughout the globe.
China is a monstrous entity with no serious health restrictions, no care for human or animal rights.
The photo of the man spraying disinfectant is laughable. It's like spraying a garden hose on a raging house fire.
23
For those Americans wondering how this outbreak might affect them, you might remember that the Trump administration's budget proposal slashed $1.3 billion from the Center for Disease Control.
Why would I this up now, you ask? Trump derangement syndrome, you say? I say there is no better time to bring up short-sighted actions when we are staring the potential consequences. And I say true derangement is supporting short-sighted actions that might endanger you and your family just to own the libs.
66
@citybumpkin
Gee, House Democrats control spending so Trump’s proposal was just that — a proposal.
5
This epidemic does not seem to threaten to cause massive loss of life, but it should be a warning to us that we have to be prepared for the worst. The 1918 flu killed somewhere between 3-5% of the world's population.
Scores of millions of Americans lack medical insurance or have very poor coverage, and this discourages them from seeking treatment when they first become ill, so they aren't isolated and cared for. Many tough it out and keep working or going to school when they may be infectious. In a major epidemic that could have terrible consequences.
We need universal medical coverage. Your medical coverage can protect me and mine from exposure to infectious diseases and my coverage can protect you and yours.
27
Appreciate the measures China Is taking to limit the spread of the virus.
I suppose in the US anti-vaccination zealots would be against such quarantine restrictions.
6
Like it or not Communism seems to be serving the larger Chinese community quite well, and their ability to act decisively is certainly an advantage in a moment such as this outbreak, their Middle class of over a billion people has evolved as our middle class has all but evaporated and the perhaps ten percent own basically everything after fifty years of neo liberalism. I believe the time is long overdue for us to be hung up on labels and platitudes, are “ free market” which it is anything but, in addition to our “ fierce independence “, yeah right have not done Very wellness by the majority of Americans, multi nationals that pay zero taxes yes, special interests yes, and admittedly you can be whatever you want to be, but is being able to act out your weirdest wishes in public really such a great thing, personally I miss this event clean cut Americans of the fifties, actually they look like the happy Chinese of today, well dressed and filled with optimism.
4
I notice this narrative is overlaid with great social projection of the Chinese Communist Party as the caretaker of the country, the use of shame and the party apparatus as the means of control. The subtext is first, that the Central Party is trying to manage the mid-level elites and professionals in the periphery, to get them to do the right thing, and second, the Chinese people have the will necessary to make great social sacrifices for the greater good.
It's nauseating to see the Chinese Communist Party like a cobra wrapped around the people of China, enabling a million parasite party actors to suck the blood out of every moment of social importance, and inject their venomous nationalism. The Chinese Communist Party is trying to be God, and father, and protector, and best friend, and the source of pride -- and most of all, the decider of what is true or real or good, for each and every person in China.
If the Chinese Communist Party wanted this buried, it would be buried. They want to avoid the disappointment and mistrust that followed their suppression of the SARS outbreak. If they had a choice of people dying and their credibility, the Chinese Communist Party would do anything save face.
For now, the people of Wuhan have the Chinese Communist Party on their side. Tomorrow? Who knows.
11
@we Tp
You've been reading too many manifestos.
1
Closing off a city of 11 million people is an enormous move by China, suggesting that authorities may be very anxious about the spread of this virus to a larger population. Since the SARS crisis was also related to a virus from wildlife, more stringent measures to enforce a ban on wildlife commerce throughout China are critically needed.
26
@blgreenie There could be a silver lining here. Lot's of species near extinct because of trade in China.
1
This is so over blown. What happened to the big measles scare with less than 20 people getting measles out of millions of people? China is worried about its tourist business. Get real.
2
I think you mean less than 20 people died of measles. There were several thousand cases in the US alone last year.
6
This is unfortunate. I hope the virus doesn't spread and the people who are sick recover. I hope we can also develop a medicine to respond to it should it mutate. The common cold is a type of coronavirus and currently we have no effective treatment for the common cold virus. I read reports about how the outbreak began in an exotic meat market there. (Ebola arose from bushmeat in 2014.) I also read reports that "Chinese crooks are cornering markets in pigs and pork by using drones to spread swine fever." I sure hope the closed-information Chinese government is accurately reporting the scale of the problem.
4
How can there be a city of 11 million people, it staggers the imagination
7
@Bethesdalady
That's much smaller than the largest cities.
7
@Bethesdalady
It does stagger the imagination.
On a Chinese travel website, Wuhan is listed as the 10th most populous city in China, with a population of 7.9 million. I guess the 11 million number includes the surrounding areas.
The most populated cities in China, using the same website, are Shanghai at 23.4 million and Beijing at 18.8 million. The other 8 cities on the list of the top ten are between 12 million and the (roughly) 8 million of Wuhan.
Personally, I prefer the peace, and the quiet and the space that can still be found in a mid-sized American city.
8
@David_60
Did you think there are no "mid sized Chinese cities?" There's only ten large ones?
3
I went through the ordeal of SARS in Beijing 2003, how unprepared of the country. Today, the situation is difference, Dr. Zhong deem hero of SARS, whom I met after the ordeal, inspected WUHAN as outbreak in the market evident three weeks ago, to advise sweeping decisive actions including quaranteen Wuhan city of 11 millions of people, banned all travels in or out of the city, shut down all public transits during this annual hype of domestic and international travel of 200M people. WOW, regardless we the West think of China, one has to congratulate China leadership this time. One decision no head of State of the West dare to take. BRAVO
47
@Ann In the United States, thoughts and prayers are all the heads of state offer, generously.
5
@Ann I'm glad that your government has learned from its experience with the SARS pandemic and is thus responding to the risks of the current coronavirus more quickly. That's a very positive sign and no doubt encouraging for Chinese citizens around the world, and for other nations. Kudos to China for being more open this time about the outbreak of a viral pandemic and for sharing genetic information to help public health agencies around the world track prevalence of the disease. The quarantine of the entire Wuhan Metropolitan area may be an over-reaction--the death rate is nowhere close to, say, Ebola--but time will tell. We in the West wish you well.
1
I read an absolutely horrifying article about the Chinese market where this deadly conoravirus is thought to have originated. It is a seafood/meat market that specializes in “fresh” (meaning live) wildlife, including civets, bats, and wolf puppies. It made me sick to my stomach to think about how these captive (adult and baby) wild animals have been terrorized and then savagely slaughtered so voracious humans could consume their tortured fresh.
Man is the cruelest animal.” — Friedrich Nietzsche
102
@Zareen
Indeed.
The existence of these kinds of markets is why these plagues usually start in China.
32
@Zareen Thank you for your revealing and truthful comment.
12
The Great Spanish Flu Epidemic started in Kansas. A misnomer if there ever was one.
8
According to CDC, there are about 6600 to 17,000 death related to Flu in the U.S. this flu season already, but I haven't seen much people in NYC wearing masks. And there are a lot of people coughing and sneezing in the subway. That's scary as well.
24
True, but most people that die because of the flu are quite elderly and typically have underlying medical conditions. The world also has access to an annual flu vaccine. I have been getting mine annually since 2004. I am only 44 and have not gotten the flu in those 16 years. SARS, which was also a Coronavirus, had a major impact on the City of Toronto with 44 deaths. Most of the Toronto fatalities were healthcare workers, i.e. doctors and nurses. They were neither elderly nor had underlying conditions. The 1918 Spanish Flu overwhelming killed younger individuals, as opposed to elderly individuals.
11
80,000 people died in US during 2017-2018 flu season. Yes, many have underlying conditions but so did the SARS victims. We need to be careful and take precautions but not overreact.
1
@Old Expat. There is a very powerful multiplier in today's world and that is air travel. It is not too late to attempt containment. Transnational containment measures can be far-reaching: entry or exit screening, reporting, health-alert notices, collection and dissemination of passenger information, travel advisories or restrictions, and physical examination or management of sick or exposed individuals. These kinds of powers were exercised in Asia and North America during the SARS outbreaks. A variety of sanitary measures is possible at borders and on conveyances, including inspection, fumigation, disinfection, pest extermination, and destruction of infected or contaminated animals or goods. Border protection can severely disrupt travel, trade, and tourism, and it should be balanced against the global economic impact.
Controls placed on international travel can also infringe upon civil liberties. The freedom of movement is a basic right protected by national laws and international treaties, but it is subject to limits when necessary for the public’s health. In particular, some of these limits can present serious risks to privacy. For example, containment measures may require the travel industry to collect and disclose passenger data. Such infringements on privacy rights can be justified only if there is a genuine need to obtain high-quality surveillance data and if the infringements are carried
5
@Mark Stone : This! "There is a very powerful multiplier in today's world and that is air travel. "
11
Thank God they are closing off the city.
Can you imagine if they tried that in the United States? Protests and law suits.
21
@Sue Rightly so, because the US is still a country where individuals have a say. I would be horrified to live in a country with a heavy handed government like this. You can bet innocent people there will suffer, and maybe even die, as a result of the quarantine, and China could not care less.
3
@Chaz I don't know if the Chinese government is handling it well, or whether it is justified at this point. But the point of a quarantine is that if you don't do it, even more people will die.
12
@Chaz From my understanding, you are basically suggesting CPP not to quarantine any one in Wuhua. Would you rather people in Wuhuan spread disease to the rest of the World?
6
More perspective: the common flu regularly kills between 30,000 and 60,000 Americans every year and sends more than a half-million to hospital. (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html)
The common flu, which kills Americans by the tens of thousands, often has no vaccine or cure. Flu shots are only 50-60% effective in healthy adults, and some people cannot take the flu vaccine at all: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/flu/in-depth/flu-shots/art-20048000
The common flu mutates continuously and unpredictably, sometimes evolving into yet-more-lethal strains.
The Wuhan outbreak is caused by a coronavirus. SARS is caused by a coronavirus. And the common cold is often caused by a coronavirus. They are all different disease processes with different lethalities. Comparing one to the other may not be meaningful.
More study is definitely warranted. China and others should definitely try to limit the spread of this disease, as they've done. But let's not lose our heads with fear. There are common epidemics in our midst right now which may be much more dangerous to the average American.
12
@Socrates : Confused about your comment that there is no vaccine for the common flu. Every year, there is a flu shot that contains vaccines against the strains researchers believe will be the most prevalent in the upcoming flu season.
I realize they are not 100%. And I realize that they don't always predict the strains accurately. But to say there is no vaccine is false.
13
@Rose I didn't write that there is no vaccine for the common flu, as you suggest. What I actually wrote was: "The common flu... often has no vaccine or cure." Emphasis "often." Meaning that drug companies sometimes make a vaccine available that defends against a particular flu strain, and sometimes they don't, or can't. The flu shot is a cocktail that is reformulated every year. It's a bit of a semantic point, but if the "flu shot" cannot confer complete or partial immunity for a particular strain of the flu, it is not a vaccine for that version of the flu.
I will refer you to the Mayo's page which suggests 50-60% effectiveness for the "flu shot" in healthy adults: certainly better than nothing, but nowhere near 100%.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/flu/in-depth/flu-shots/art-20048000
Much more detail about how flu vaccines work and "match" to seasonal viruses can be found on the CDC's page: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/vaccineeffect.htm
4
@Socrates I think the alarm is more over that there is little known about this new strain. We have a pretty good grasp of the effects of the common flu. We know how the immune system of most of us will handle the common flu.
But we don't have a good grasp of what this new strain is capable of. It's easy to say overreact, but you can't enact a quarantine once the diseases has turned epidemic, just as you can't close Pandora's Box once it's opened.
Having said this, I do not have a lot of faith in the Chinese government handling this quarantine humanely or competently.
6
As usual, when reading these comments, Americans think it is the end of the world.
9
@Andreas This comment from someone who lives on the continent where Ebola has raged and destroyed many many lives. Why so flippant?
6
Once again, the world stops and gasps at another deadly outbreak caused by selling live wild animals as food in China. Yet most stories don't even mention live markets. If dog meat was the cause would that be in the headline?
When animal welfare advocates tried to stop the sale of live turtles and frogs in the San Francisco Chinatown market back in 1996, we were called racists for trying change "culture" and "tradition." The sale of wild and domestic animals continues to this day.
The live market this current virus came out of is closed but what about the rest? When are our government officials going to finally do something to stop the trade in live wild animals, especially exotic wild animals for human consumption?
Isn't Mother Nature trying to tell us something?
69
@Karen B.
Find me one source that says it was wild animals at the market that were the culprits.
2
@Matt I encourage you to read "Spillover". Many viruses that newly infect humans come from wild animals. Scientists believe HIV originated as SIV and crossed over from bushmeat. Ebola, Hanta virus, and many others had similar origins.
22
It boggles the mind that Wuhan, a city no one has heard of, has 11 million people, 19 million in the metro.
That's larger than NYC .
China is a BIG place
19
@Sparky Jones - I lived there from 2008-2011. To my US friends I called it “the biggest city you never heard of”. Now they’ve heard about it.
3
@Sparky Jones "...no one has heard of"
You mean YOU have never heard of.
11
Since they already have cctv and facial recognition technology everywhere, they could arm those cameras with temperature readers. What's the point of having a authoritarian dystopian society if you're not going to put those toys to good use? Travel with symptoms? Refuse to have your temperature read? Dock social credit points. No train ticket for you. Next!
7
It will be several weeks before enough information is in to determine how fast and how far the virus is spreading, which demographics are most vulnerable and whether the virus is showing signs of mutation to become more or less severe. In the mean time, actions to contain the virus and reduce the likelihood of transmission can be taken wherever it has appeared. Compared to SARS and MERS, public health authorities seem to have more of a jump on identifying and responding, both locally and globally, than before, so that is some good news already. But if there are already 17 confirmed fatalities, as has been reported, it would not be surprising if this number is doubled or tripled in the upcoming week or two, after which we should hope the containment becomes effective and treatment of those infected more successfull.
4
For those advocating for a flight ban. You're mistaken on effective interventions. I've been in public health for a few years and getting my masters in epidemiology. The history is clear.
Any flight ban would be ineffective. It didn't' work with HIV, Ebola, or any other disease. Borders are always porous. It would just change the way ppl travel making it harder to track. Lastly, there could be economic effects that lead to collapse and scarcity of needed resources. Public health is not an excuse for xenophobic.
Outbreak investigation is fully capable of dealing with the issues. However, we need to fund these activities and collaborate better. The world is interconnected and it requires all of our attention to address any disease.
20
China will just build a cage around it. They don't care about public opinion so much.
2
@a
“any flight ban would be ineffective?”
Ok
“fund these activities and collaborate better”?
Ok
What activities? What collaboration?
The outbreak has already occurred!
As someone who has “been in public health” and is “getting” your masters in epidemiology you need better recommendations besides saying flight bans don’t work and we need more money and more collaboration. The bus has left the station!
8
Can we please institute a travel ban from China, or at least from Wuhan? Cutting off travel is the only way to definitively stop this thing.
18
@CP Probably too late, it already started way over a month ago. The numbers of infected people will most certainly be much higher.
6
@CP - That would mean stopping all of those container ships that come into Puget Sound every day with the products that line your store's shelves. Airplanes are not the only way folks from China enter this country.
8
If the container ships stopped, we might find out how much we depend on China.
1
Closing the Barn door after the Horses have Died.
Sad.
11
The cat is out of the bag.
8
Having ended the Deng Xiaoping experiment of democracy with Chinese characteristics aka a term- limited collective leadership model while claiming the Mandate of Heaven of a Chinese Emperor and the cult of personality model of Chairman Mao Zedong to reign and rule until death, Chinese President and Chairman of the Chinese Communist Party and the Chinese Military Commision Xi Jinping can act with impunity and speed.
8
Despite the negative comments thus far, one has to admire the ability of the Chinese government to order such drastic measures once the threat became clear. Can you imagine the inept Trump administration responding with such categorical measures and the US population obeying without squawking? It would be a complete flail.
75
@PJMD - Hillary would not have been able to do it either. Or Obama...or Bush, Clinton, etc.
5
@PJMD If Trump did anything like this you would be screaming the loudest about authoritarian and draconian measures.
10
There’s absolutely nothing to admire about the Chinese government as they view both people and animals as nothing but disposable commodities.
11
First of all: this sounds very serious! Secondly: you don't announce such a measure beforehand, you just cut all ways out and THEN you tell the public, probably using words like "...it's for your own good...", like someone would believe that.
Therefor I expect a lot of (infected?) people "got out" before services stopped. Many of them feared that authorities would be unable to handle a mass-outbreak in a city that big. I think they were right!
The picture with the guy spraying stuff in the train station is more worth than a thousand words. It reminds me of that tent the U.S. woman suspected of carrying Ebola was forced to live in. Total chaos, total confusion, total helplessness on account of the government.
Diseases always trigger emotions in us, we've been conditioned that way for millennia. And yet: we don't have proper procedures in place, we always stumble from first infections to spreading epidemic to barely contained pandemic.
One would think we learn. We don't. Watch the U.S. reaction to this when more patients appear. With Donald Trump at the helm you can expect calm, orderly, logical measures - NOT! But I don't have high hopes for other nations either. I wonder how Angie will tackle it...
Anyway: I'm on sick-leave this week for - can you believe it? - an unknown respiratory illness. I'm alright, and it sure as heck isn't the Wuhan thing, but it gives me time to monitor the situation until Monday morning to see if I go to work or into the bunker :-)
7
I was in Wuhan this past summer on a work trip enjoyed my time there and even rode the train back to shanghai instead of flying. Most Americans just have no idea of the size of Chinese cities they have never heard of. By contrast New York only has 8 million people Wuhan 11 million. Subways are a sight to behold at rush hours in most cities just absolutely packed to capacity, it’s a scary place to have an outbreak of any easily transmissible disease I certainly hope the measures taken work.
119
Too bad about the deadly viral outbreak though.
Wuhan should have been closed off weeks ago when the outbreak began.
The CCP realized that they couldn't contain it anymore (both the virus and the news) so now they are taking these too-little too-late measures.
Let's hope that scientists can quickly find a cure for this.
19
A week ago it wasn’t even clear that the virus is transmitted through humans. Do not pretend that you know better than scientists and researchers who spend their lives understanding and planning for epidemics.
12
@Jason
Because it wasn't clear they should have erred on the side of caution.
1
This is the response when SCIENCE informs the actions a government takes in response to a threat. No doubt, if this virus hits here in force, the US government will be denying it even exists. Bravo to China to taking strong, immediate, and affirmative steps to try to contain the spread of this virus.
38
@Michigan Girl
Yeah, it's too bad governments everywhere don't act on the science that informs climate change and the climate emergency!
9
@Michigan Girl
What science says that a city larger than NYC should be shut down to prevent the spread of a virus that's already outside of the city's borders?
There's no reason to deny a pandemic. As the Chinese government has demonstrated, if you scare people, they will do as you say.
Good, they are doing this.
But it's a day late. And a buck short.
6
Well, that horse is already out of the barn, now that they're closing the barn door. Too little, too late. Why is it that China is always so slow taking these things seriously?
4
@Lynn Taylor
Probably for the same reasons we're slow to take things seriously? Like the measles outbreak in New York City and New York State? Or when people here refuse to evacuate their homes when threatened with floods, hurricanes, or fires? Or refusing to believe climate change is a real, dangerous, and imminent problem?
23
@Lynn Taylor
The Chinese government is not in the business of saving their citizens lives. A quick scan of history can show that. However, the Chinese government is concerned with their economic status and how the rest of the world views China. It is what used to be called "saving face" in tourism, power, economics, science etc. The closing of Wuhan shows the world how tough they are and how competent they can appear to be. The fact, a new virus has appeared. They got caught trying to keep a simmering pot from boiling over during the Lunar New Year. In short they must appease the rest of the world. It is one thing to not care about the value of your citizens and another to show you do not care about the global citizens.
Emotionally and psychologically this is a viscerally difficult time for billions of Chinese throughout the world. I feel that resonating in Manhattan's Chinatown.
3
Wuhan is my home city. I am very worried about my family and friends there. It must be a tough Chinese New Year for people who are impacted by this virus outbreak.
It is a very bad time of the year because most of the people are off work for at least 7 days celebrating the festival with all their family members. Unlike the American family, Chinese families are big, which makes the virus easily to spread.
Wuhan has 11 million residents and is a major city in China. Many people would get in and out of the city during Chinese New Year, which makes the virus even scarier.
On one hand, it is shocking to me that the travel ban has been issued in Wuhan. On the other hand, I feel it is effective to stop the virus. Hope CCP is able to figure out a way to cure the virus soon.
190
Hope your family is fine ! Gold bless you god bless china!!
16
@Han bless u and the bless the medical workers!
10
@Han bless you and bless the medical workers!
1
thanks Matt. From a different perspective, NYC has a population of ~8 million
3
The move to cut of transport of the new coronavirus epicenter is at least able to lower the possible risk of huge outbreak, especially when Chinese New Year is approaching.
But some of the residents of Wuhan have already fled into different counties in China. Some manifested their desire to find a place where medical resources are abundant, i.e. HK, and a new confirmed case appeared in Hong Kong, taking HSR while our special administrative government have yet to be taken essential precautionary measures that require them to inform the authority about their health conditions.
People in HK are terrified. No one want to recollect the darkest days in our history.
10
@W.
Did people fly to HK for better medication? For god's sake, the first reported case in HK is that person happened to be in HK for a trip. Wuhan has good medication resources and several highly reputable hospitals.
4
@Han You should read some of the social media posts appeared in Chinese sites. If they are not willing to, it will be great. I sincerely hope that all the infected to stay in local hospitals to prevent mass outbreak.
4
@Han
W. is right. Yes, people left Wuhan for Hong Kong because it's better to be in HK if you're sick. HK hospitals cannot deny patients, unlike mainland China. After SARS in 2003, hospitals have been taken a lot of improvements for the facilities as well.
In Wuhan, all hospitals are packed with people. There are long lines to get test results. Tents are set up even in the parking lots. You need to read about what is actually happening in Wuhan. It's not that difficult to find videos to see the situation there.
1
Democracy and respect for the rights of the individual are incompatible with the measures needed to deal with a new virus about which little is known and may become the next pandemic. So we are probably fortunate that this outbreak did not begin in the west.
17
@A Cynic
What you say is not true. Democracy and respect for individual freedoms are entirely compatible with dealing with a new virus. There are so many things you can do other than quarantine eleven million people. Democracy also allows us to have a say in CDC policy, should we ever decide we want to allow the government to declare New York City off-limits. This false choice is giving the Chinese government a lot of respect, and that should worry everyone.
We don't have to choose between everyone dying and the PRC locking down a city without good reason or any end in sight. It's an indefinite lockdown, remember. And now that it's worked there, they can try it elsewhere.
Like Hong Kong.
This needs to happen more often but governments are more concerned with the economic impacts of such measures.
Nonetheless, it signifies that the severity of this outbreak is worse than initially thought.
Scary.
10
@PP No, it doesn't. The travel restrictions are primarily a face-saving gesture.
What needs to happen more often: people keep their kids at home and stay home themselves when they are sick.
5
@PP health workers refused to go to countries where ebola was due to fear. Ppl refused to drop in medical supplies needed to address the ebola outbreak. Economics is an important part of making sure a country gets the resources it needs to fight an epidemic.
@Scientist
How I wish people would stay home when they're sick - and even more importantly keep their sick kids home. I teach middle school and often have kids in my class who vomitted that day, have flu symptoms or tell me they had a fever but took Motrin and their parents want them on school. I send them to the nurse and the nurse often sends them right back - too bad for me and the other kids. I literally caught whooping cough off of a student and it ruined my life. I suffered a severe back injury and the surgery left scar tissue that made the pain worse. I had begged them to keep the student out of my room and was told I was being unreasonable.
9
Rock, meet hard place.
Communist government with absolute control, meet 600 million people who want to visit their family for annual holiday.
Good luck figuring that one out.
11
@MoneyRules Sadly it's simple for the ruling CCP. If you want to see family, you must enter "re-education camp." And that is the end of that.
4
@MoneyRules
How perverted is it that the safety and well-being of eleven million people has been totally discarded because people want to go on holiday?
Chinese authorities should be handing out N100 masks and providing disinfectant hand cleaners in every restaurant and business in Wuhan and beyond. Or, they can just wait and see what happens.
Do you trust Trump to adequately meet the CDC’s funding needs as this virus spreads? I don’t.
75
@AGoldstein Seriously? You're going to invoke the President in relation to the coronavirus and predict his administration will under fund the CDC? All this without a shred of evidence. The level of loathing toward Trump has reached an almost farcical level. No good will come of this deep-seated hatred.
14
@bkd - This virus has already come to our state. Is Trump going to cut off all planes and boats from China? Or keep letting Ivanka's products come into the Puget Sound on container ships along with staff who might have been exposed?
13
@bkd - In 2019, CDC's budget was decreased in almost every category including "Emerging and Zoonotic Infectious Diseases."
https://www.cdc.gov/budget/documents/fy2019/fy-2019-detail-table.pdf
19
This reminds me of Chernobyl. All centralized government actas the same way...
3
@Alain Autocratic governments act this way but not necessarily centralized governments.
4
The Year of the Rat may usher in a modern day plague, but it will be trains and planes helping spread it, instead of the furry little rodents.
69
@Fred Rodgers
Since we don't know the origin of the virus, we can not rule out rats. So far scientists seem to believe that it originated from a mammal.
1
@White Buffalo I didn't mean to let rats off the hook, but they won't be the mammals that spread this virus worldwide quickly.
6
Hope for the best everyone. And be well.
12
Too many people, too many farm animals and usually in horrific conditions, add antibiotics and you have a toxic mix. It's happened before and we're doing it here in the states. The human condition.
The inability to deal with climate change is the same human condition.
Once these are a crisis humans spring into action because now it may affect many of us, including the 1%.
Rinse and repeat.
22
@How Much Is Enough? This has nothing to do with antibiotic usage and probably little to do with climate change.
9
On the note of antibiotics... they are not applicable to viruses, only bacteria.
4
Say what one will regarding the "totalitarian" Chinese state it appears they are moving fast and taking steps however restrictive to protect their citizenry and by extension the rest of the world.
The government may deserve criticism, but it deserves credit as well.
82
@Ian MacFarlane How low standards have become that anyone should credit for doing the minimum required responsible actions! They would get more credit if they don't censor and threaten their citizens, but they've already done that.
3
Do you seriously believe that the US would handle this better? Which American politician has the courage to quarantine Chicago before Christmas if it happens here?
15
@Ian MacFarlane I don't know about fast. There have been cases reported outside of Wuhan for weeks. There has even been 1 confirmed case in the US already>
I also don't know about effective. We don't have any results, yet.
It is a fetish to praise authoritarian regimes every time they do something draconian. Draconian is not always fast, and it is not always effective. In fact, this has the looks of a panic move after Pandora's Box has already opened. Maybe. We just don't know yet.
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Surely the coronavirus must have been in Wuhan for a much longer period for scientists to have sequenced it?
China is not an open society and is likely to have repressed the existence of this virus for some time.
Due to the relatively long incubation period of two weeks, many travellers on aircrafts will be asymptomatic and thus will spread this virulent virus throughout the world. The only logical answer to this is to halt air travel in and out of China for a period. The face masks will do nothing to protect you from a deadly virus.
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@Koret It isn't even known right now how it spreads. Could be respiratory, in which case, face masks would help some, but agree won't halt the spread.
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@Koret - You would also need to halt all container ship travel into the U.S. from China and our economy crashes. Not gonna happen during an election year. There is already one case 15 miles from my desk and the ships from China pour into the Puget Sound all day and night. Relax, you're on the other side of the world:))
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For some perspective, consider that we are currently talking about 400-500 cases in a country of 1.3 billion people.
That's an infection rate of 1 person out of every 2,500,000.
More people catch a common cold or the regular flu each day than are getting this virus.
Or to put it another way, to get to an infection rate of just 1% of the population in China, 13 million people would have to get infected.
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This is a very seriously flawed perspective. Outbreaks like this do not progress in a linear manner. You need to consider the velocity, duration of infection, mortality, and ease of transmission as well as the impact on sub populations. Make no mistake. This is an alarming development.
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@Matt Pandemics follow the law of exponential growth. So, what starts small will grow to be uncontrollable in a short time. This has already jumped past the barriers. Expect this virus to circulate around the world for a few years until there is mass immunity, a vaccine, or a mutation to make it more benign. It is already to late to contain it.
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@Matt Closer to 1:24,000. You can't consider the entire population -- you need to narrow it to Wuhan. And this is only reported cases -- like any virus, there will be infected persons who self-treat and don't visit the doctor. It also appears to have a long incubation period --- up to two weeks -- and a relatively high fatality rate. The fact that it's now in other cities and has infected people who didn't travel to the market where it appears to have originated means it is likely airborne. Plus, it appears to be particularly virulent -- one person alone infected 10+ others. That's measles-like virulence. All of these facts are enough to make any expert in infectious diseases very, very concerned -- and rightly so.
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Reading this, I again wonder about the safety of dining in the increasing number of restaurants where customers are expected to clear their own tables when done eating, and absolutely no one cleans the tables between customers. I have never seen a justification for this—if the person who dined before me had a fatal flu, I probably would be at least as high a risk of catching the disease from touching the unwashed table as from opening a rest room door with my bare hands on exit.
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@ANNE IN MAINE Coronavirus is a respiratory virus. In general, we get coronaviruses from being sneezed on by kids. (We have four coronaviruses infecting us seasonally, as colds.) Like flu, the pathogen is transmitted primarily through the air, not fomites. That's not to say we can't get sick if we touch a mucus-laden objects and then our eyes, but it's not a dominant mode of transmission.
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@ANNE IN MAINE - I started working in U.S restaurants starting in high school and have never, repeat never seen anyone clean a table with hydrogen peroxide or even rubbing alcohol. You are lucky if they start with a clean dishcloth to wipe it down.
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What is the logic in placing a cover over one's face that provides a warm moist breeding ground for pathogens?
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Wear the proper mask, and they're actually quite effective. They need to be rated, though - an N95 mask will offer substantial protection from infectious droplets. Wash your hands regularly, avoid touching your face, wear an N95 mask, and wear a new one each time you're heading out in public.
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@Coldnose - One thing it does is prevent you from touching your nose (mucous membranes) if you have picked up the virus on your hands.
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At the least it is a barrier to touching your mouth and nose directly with your hands. Frequent hand washing and a mask will help.
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Distant Past is haunting China but in this century it has been more efficient in dealing with Corona virus outbreaks and hopefully it will be just as effective in dealing with the Wuhan Coronavirus (WCV). Early in this century when the SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome) corona virus infected 1000s in China.
1) China set up tents to quarantine patients infected with SARS.
2) China monitored traveling persons to check for persons with above normal temperatures you would be promptly quarantined as long as a week for observation.
3) As seen in the Agence France Presse image, they sprayed antiviral disinfectants similar to lysol.
4) Had hand sanitizers all around public places.
5)Almost everyone wore masks that prevented any droplets or aerosols from entering the respiratory tract. I doubt whether free virus particles or virions were trapped by the masks used at that time and they should try using masks with filters that will trap virions.
6) There was a sports team that was held up in a motel when one person in the group showed high temperature. They were only released after their sporting event was over without their participation.
7) Staying away from crowded places and those sneezing or coughing around.
My father who turned 100 in 2019 and who lived through several epidemics and pandemics repeatedly said prevention is better than cure. He would be among the 1st batch of persons lining up for any available vaccine. Unfortunately, there is no vaccine against the WCV.
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Since this illness began being reported, I've wondered why people were being allowed to travel from Wuhan and were only being screened once they got to their destinations. Sounds backwards to me.
Wouldn't it have made more sense to have done the screening before they even got on the plane? By the time arriving in, say, New York City, all of the other persons on the plane would then have been exposed and would also have to be treated.
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@jeriannw They are most likely being scanned at the Chinese airports. I can't speak for Wuhan, but I left PEK a few weeks back and was scanned after going through security.
Unfortunately, the Chinese government can only prevent Chinese nationals from boarding (and even then it's an iffy legal procedure). It cannot prevent foreign nationals from leaving if they have a valid exit visa. So if Billy Bob the American decides to return home to New York from Wuhan, nobody can stop him except American custom officials after he lands.
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@jeriannw
"Experts say there is still a risk that the symptoms of the virus don’t become apparent until after the sick have crossed the border..."
There aren't always immediate symptoms in people that are sick.
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@jeriannw Travel screening doesn't really work with infections with appreciable incubation periods (which this one seems to have) and paucisymptomatic infections.
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Given China’s problems with high particulates in the air (pm 2.5), I am curious if the mortality will be higher than in places with better air. I imagine baseline COPD is higher, but I don’t know what the rate of tobacco combustion is there. I am impressed with China’s virologists, they sequenced this virus quickly and got the word out fast.
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