For those critical of China's handling of information about this (no doubt warranted) please remember we had a hospital in Texas deny that a patient came in with Ebola, and then blamed it on their EMR software that they were unaware of it, a claim they quickly backed away from no doubt after being contacted by the software company's lawyers.
7
Remember the SARS panic? I do. I remember the rude treatment of Asian travelers when I was traveling overseas at that time. Ultimately 774 people died as a result of SARS globally. In the U.S. alone, between 12,000 and 61,000 people have died from the flu each year since 2010. Get a grip people.
3
The United States has nothing under control, including the President. Chinese leaders will place their "virus" patients in government run hotels, etc., so not to report cases at hospitals, etc. This is just like they did with the SARS epidemic, but now much worse. When millions of people are on the move for Chinese New Year, it will be impossible to contain. Something must be done quickly!
This is the only time that N. Korea has a good solution, closing their borders!
3
As I wrote January 17th in the NY Times comment section for 'Three U.S. Airports to Check Passengers for a Deadly Chinese Coronavirus'
"The confines of our crowded air transport system including airports and airplanes will some day be the corridor for spreading the next great plague. Not sure how this can be changed but this "mysterious respiratory virus" will give the authorities yet another dry run to check their own abilities... Human nature being what it is, every fictional plague horror film starts with someone not being truthful about how they are feeling..."
Now I will modify that: Human nature being what it is in totalitarian states, the new fictional plague horror film starts with a country not being truthful about how their citizens are feeling.
One option is to confront China with an international travel ban while they work out the spread of the disease domestically during their holiday season. In the fictional version of this, other governments, hindered by complex economic interdependence, can't get themselves to take real action until they start losing their own citizens. Of course by then, it is too late.
Relax; just fiction, right?
1
The article plays too much on the political angle. Essentially every article on China now is viewed through the political lens, which distorts readers’ perceptions. One just needs to ask the simple question, what would happen if something similar happens in another country, say India, Brazil, or South Africa? Would they do better in handling such incidents? For India, the answer is no because they don’t even have the medical infrastructure to identify an outbreak different from the usual flu. The fact that the virus was identified and sequenced quickly was already something that one would normally only expect from developed countries. There are certainly still inadequacies in the initial handling of the cases, but most of it has little to do with the political nature of the Chinese Govt., because the same problems are present in all developing countries due to inadequate public awareness, medical standards, etc. If anything, China is performing at a level much closer to that of developed countries than other developing countries.
4
In Wuhan, resistance to wearing a mask is now a punishable crime. Making facial coverage a mandate somehow reminds me of the Mask Ban in Hong Kong. How ironic that when Xi Jinping ordered the deployment of unflinching force on Hongkongers, the Chief Executive used her power to create a law so people cannot wear masks and had to face pepper spray and teargas without any protection. It's ironic that now everyone in China are joining Hongkongers in their needs to wear masks for protection. For 7 months, police fired over 10,000 rounds of teargas, contaminating the air and the environment in Hong Kong, hurting innocent citizens, forcing people to wear face masks and defy the law. Now with a deadly virus spreading all over China, as every national put on a mask to fight for their lives, will anyone think about what Hongkongers from all walks of life have gone through in their fight for justice?
As Hong Kong people live in fear, nationals in China are opening their eyes to the hurtful deception and bureaucratic corruption. In Wuhan, 8 people who shared their stories about the deadly virus have been arrested for spreading rumors. They were branded as unpatriotic, now, unclear when they would be freed. I remember the morning when I learned about the mask ban. I called my family. I worried about them, especially my over a hundred year old grandma. Everyone in Hong Kong is frustrated because the masks are essential for survival and the government clearly wanted Hongkongers to suffer.
5
Of course the Chinese government needs to improve its public health infrastructure and transparency as it pushed aside the US as the sole world superpower. On the other hand the public health problems that kill more people that it seems to have a handle on include gun violence, opioid (ab)use, vaccination rates, overall drug addiction, alcohol related deaths, obesity rates... and it seems to believe that CO2 has something to do with global warming and coal needs to be phased out, as the world's largest electric car producer. Gee
I wonder if there's a superpower having trouble with all those other public health issues.
1
Why did the Chinese government suddenly change course and begin acknowledging that the disease is spreading I asked. According to my contacts in Hong Kong, this came after the Hong Kong government sent a delegation to China. The delegation was led by Dr Yuen Kwok-Yung, who worked with Dr Zhong Na-Shan (who in turn was mentioned in the article) during the SARS pandemic.
This goes to show how important it is for Hong Kong to remain a free city and relatively autonomous from China - so he says
6
Besides wasting money exactly what good will it do to take people's temperature at airports.
The man that now has the virus and is in the hospital was perfectly healthy when he arrived at the airport and no amount of testing at that time would suggest he had any disease.
Second, all one has to do is take some aspirin shortly before arriving at the airport. It will reduce their temperature down to normal.
The World Health Organization says the virus likely first spread to humans through transmission from an animal at a live animal market in Wuhan. "live animal market" you reap what you sow
4
Roughly a month ago, my contact in China, an engineer, was visiting Wuhan and I asked him about people getting sick there. It was news to him and he didn’t believe me. Goes to show what banning foreign media and tightly controlling the internet can do - keep people ignorant.
7
It seems a bit odd to check people after they deplane after arriving from Wuhan. Wouldn't it make more sense to check people before they leave?
6
@Scott Meyer
Yes, only if you believe the Chinese Communist Regime, giving the track record of lying to the public. Do you remember what happened in 2003? The Chinese Communist officials in Beijing had claimed it had no SARS cases, so when the inspectors from WHO arrived, all the SARS patients were taken out of hospitals and driven around in ambulances while the inspections took place.
In Hong Kong, the SARS outbreak was at its most serious in March of 2003, a month after the Chinese New Year. Four months earlier, in early December, some news outlets had reported that in a couple of towns in Southern Guangdong, all supplies of bleach had been sold out in days. SARS had been around for at least four months before it was identified. The Communist China has always insisted on censoring negative news about the country, and whatever is happening in Wuhan now.
This is likely the case. China lies.
SARS killed 299 people in Hong Kong. If you want to know how people feel in HK, please read the comment from Matt in the NYT picks. He is right about the situation there.
2
While different countries are trying to become the stupid No.1 in the world by fighting, killing and arguing with each other, our mother nature finally shows her power. As a biology PhD candidate here, I have to say we could avoid most of these events if the government spend more budgets on scientific research rather than on politics and wars. Yes, since 911, many scientific research budgets have been cut to support those useless wars. Those talented young people prefer to study computer programming and economics rather than science because of the low income. Time for human to focus more on those basic science!
6
1.3 Billion people are crammed together in China. This is an invitation too pathogens. Mother Nature loves stasis. It's the stage upon which life functions best. When populations are out of balance she acts.
Humanity in the 21st century is similar to a destructive pathogen creeping across the Earth, killing everything in its path for profit.
Stasis is lost and Mother Nature will be severe in her response. She's already started and will continue with inexhaustible patience until stasis is restored by her smallest, deadliest, meekest creations.
Matthew 5.5 ...Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Invite those Jehovah's in next time they knock. Ask the young couple to sit down and inquire as to what they'd like to talk about. They might say, "We don't know, we've never gotten this far before!"
2
Ugh. President Ronald Reagan did not mention HIV/AIDS crisis until 1985, five years after the disease was identified and tens of thousands of Americans died. In 1982, Reagan's press secretary Larry Speakes joked about it as the "gay plague." Today, the country that has celebrities advising people to refuse vaccination is the United States and not China. The last thing China needs is a bunch of ordinary Americans lecturing them on how to deal with pandemics and public health.
5
Like climate change weather disasters, pandemics are also an inevitable feature of overpopulation. Let nature take its course.
China has far more crossovers from livestock to humans than other nations. Sooner or later they will have a massive outbreak - think Spanish Flu 1919
Sooner or later the world will have a massive outbreak.....
2
Trump and his band of merry sycophants possesses the same instincts as the Chinese government. Secrecy and never admitting any bad news. Let’s hope we don’t have infectious disease outbreak here as I have no confidence that our own government could handle a similar crisis on a national basis any better than the Chinese.
1
If only the Chinese government would realize that they should allow the world in to help them strategize. Perhaps they should look at the fantastic job Malaysia did with the terrible Nipah virus and the steps they took to stop it. Any virus capable of causing pandemics is no longer the responsibility of one country alone. The health and economics of the entire world is affected. The Chinese administration would look a lot stronger with more transparency, honesty and communication with their own people and the entire world.
I sure hope we have enough Tamiflu stock piled in case of a SARS-like situation.
2
Is it possible to enforce a travel ban to anyone from this region of china until safe practices are determined on how to corral the virus and its potential victims?
Wuhan is one of the dirtiest cities in China. For a government assignment I visited Wuhan and met the president of Wuhan University in Sept., 1979. Shortly after the normalization of diplomatic relations with China. The city was dirty and the students in Wuhan looked lazy and tired. They do have a medical school in the university but I didn't have time to talk to the dean of their faculty. I am not surprised about the origins of this new contagious disease started from Wuhan. The city looked really bad in comparing with Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou and other major Chinese cities. Perhaps Xi Jinping should visit there and try to tell the leaders in Wuhan to improve the management of this big city. Wuhan also was the city where the 1911 modern Chinese revolution started and Dr. Sun Yat-sen defeated the last Chinese imperial dynasty, the Qing Dynasty. The founding city of a new China. But the city was really poorly managed by the Chinese government. It is about time for Xi Jinping to do something soon.
3
There is no question the Chinese Communist Party will fail the test. The question is whether they intend to pass the test in the first place: From CCP officials' point of view China has a too many people anyway so attrition not a big deal, and having the virus spread to Taiwan will be viewed as a huge strategic win by Xi Jinping and his cronies.
The virus definitely poses a threat to the people. but it's hard to imagine a mass CCP resignation, much mass protests over government secrecy, on its back.
1
Most pharmaceutical companies invest billions more cancer therapies which are only 20% effective with the most promising being effective at best 60% of the time. This is not to discredit the effort and innovation but one must be flummoxed by the sheer negligence to sustain antibiotic development.
After all, viruses are more likely to wipe us than atomic bombs
Antibiotics are not effective against viruses but only against secondary bacterial infections. Antibiotics development is important for existing infections that are becoming resistant and leave people with depressed immune systems more susceptible to viral infections.
Not that I am here to defend the PRC - for public health should be apolitical at all levels, local, regional, national and International - you compare this coronavirus outbreak case with the U.S. endless anti-vaxx induced outbreaks of measles, flu and other preventable diseases and their consultant damages, the PRC at least is doing something to save face, as opposed to the unapologetic destruction of the herd immunity here in the U.S.
Of course, there is the greater philosophical problem between the two. The PRC's draconian policies are staunch anti-freedom and the antivaxx campaign is freedom running amok. In between, reason and pragmatism should prevail.
From a practical standpoint, like SARS and Ebola, coronavirus is likely to come and go, through hygienic practices and contagion exhaustion, but the root cause remains. Perhaps China, and other countries for that matter, should look at the way food is produced. Antibiotic is coming home to roost. And what are people going to do about food production
4
As a healthcare provider in San Francisco where certain travelers from China are already being subjected to screening, I am seeing first hand our hospitals and providers gear up to treat potential cases. The severity of this novel virus is still unknown. But the efforts to prepare to contain the disease are not insignificant.
All of this is to say, why not restrict all Chinese visitors in the short term? A few cancelled holidays seems like a small sacrifice to make.
62
Restricting Chinese visitors won't help when the virus is already in other countries, including the US ( Washington State). What next? Restrict WA people from traveling?
4
@Allen
Like mandatory quarantine? Not without knowing how long the incubation period is and not really doable with the number of flights arriving from East Asia.
3
The way to combat any type of infectious disease is to crack down on rumors and limit travel. Having people running around make isolation and tracing pathology difficult and rumors just don’t help in any situation.
45
No, rumors are not the main problem, government censorship is the problem. Rumors proliferate most readily in a climate of low accurate information.
71
@Don't shoot the messenger
You think so? What’s that thing about vaccines cause autism that’s spreading like wildfire among higher income American? Or raw water? No gluten diet?
I know you want to take a stand against government censorship but cracking down on rumor is much more preferable than letting them get out of hands. The vest majority of people cannot grasp the simplest scientific idea and let along analyze scientific papers. 100% accurate info do nothing if the reader cannot understand 90% of it.
4
@AmateurHistorian
You state, and expect us to believe.
Excuse me, but where are your data-based arguments?
4
The world is one boat, car, train and plane ride away from the next human pandemic.
Microbes are responding to evolutionary fit natural human vaccine and antibiotics selection.
See ' Plagues and Peoples' a human history told from the context and perspective of infectious disease.
69
@Blackmamba Yeah, but humans will survive - after all, what fit organism would actually kill off all its hosts and thereby deprive itself of food?
Sure, it could cause some damage but I unfortunately think the cause of our own extinction will be us.
2
@RamS
The malaria protozoan has been documented in human beings going back to Homo erectus.
It could permanently retire the Nobel Prize in Medicine.
The 'common' cold and the 'flu' virus have a similar claim to fame.
Killing your host before you can be fruitful, multiply and spread is not good.
Microbes that used to hide and reside in diverse wild animal populations now hide in their monotype domestic peers and relatives.
Tropical habitat destruction and changing climate is a threat to human survival.
3
@RamS
William H. McNeil authored the book released in 1976.
See also 'The Fever: How Malaria Has Ruled Humankind for 500,000 Years" Sonia Shah
3
How soon will the US place a restriction or ban on visitors from China ?
119
@JaneK Some airports started testing passengers from China a few days ago.
9
@JaneK ~
Last time, there were proposals to have people from suspect areas either banned or placed in detainment camps for 30 days.
Hmmmm .... sound familiar?
There were also serious constraints on Doctors Without Borders.
10
@JaneK Probably not so soon, any actions that could cause public panic would almost for sure make things worse.
7
I find the comments about Chinese transparency interesting. Meanwhile, I can't find any listed information on which city in Snohomish this man lived in, a picture of him letting us know if we have had contact with him, or anything other than he was moved to Everett. And I have to wonder why he was taken to Providence Regional which gets a whopping 2.8 star review online when he could have been taken to UW Hospital.
When I first read of this about a week ago, I knew it would make it here in no time. But, I have real health issues to be concerned about like getting hit crossing the street by a texting driver or some neighbor shooting their gun off in the building. I won't even sleep in my bedroom out of concern of a stray bullet coming through the wall. We already had one shooting in the building where the bullet came through a neighbors living room floor and lodged in his ceiling. And who can forget this summer when 9 U.S. Federal Agents entered the building locked and loaded and hauled one gal away in handcuffs. And she wonders why we all give her they eye when we see her in the hallway.
2
People here in Hong Kong are petrified. No one believes that the Chinese government is fully honest, and they seem to be reacting to events instead of getting out in front of them—they don't want to declare anything until it is totally obvious that it must be declared, and by then the damage caused will be orders of magnitude greater than had they been proactive.
Here comes Chinese New Year, when most Chinese return to their hometown or take a holiday. All that travel is a recipe for deep trouble. I'm worried.
19
@Matt
"No one believes that the Chinese government is fully honest"
Hey, no one should believe *any* government is fully honest, ok? (Recall the desire-to-remain-in-power factor?)
That's what rule by the people is all about, as the CCP understands, in its bones. It will insist on controlling information, relentlessly. That's why we can hope for absolutely nothing from the CCP.
3
@An American in Sydney Rumors spread faster than viruses. That is why the primary effort must be spent on containing rumors, not the virus. If a high speed train derails, the challenge is not to immediately cover it with soil and make the place a public park, but to prevent people taking videos of the accident and the cover-up.
50 million people died in the influenza pandemic of 1918, if modern Air travel was around at that time the number would be 500 million. The Airplane is an almost perfect virus delivery system, it can do in one day what took months in 1918. But no matter what the Planes will keep flying and returning from China , predatory capitalism will demand it, only when a disaster happens will things change but by then the horse will be out of the barn, that black horse that represents plague. Capitalism controls the world and will trade blood for money every time.
38
@Lonnie I'm with you here. Somehow we never seem to learn from the past. Trump being an example. With modern means of travel, disease travels with it. China has a bad reputation regarding keeping dangerous diseases at bay. There are thousands of Chinese Tourists traveling these days. The spread of this disease is inevitable.
3
@Lonnie Absolutely. I recall reading an essay about ww1 in which it was noted that soldiers, already sick, were loaded aboard transport boats and sent to fight. Sure some lived and got better enroute but the virus arrived alive and well to the destination and infected waves of people on coastal landing points.
4
“One patient had infected 14 medical workers.”
Either it’s very contagious. Or there’s poor hygiene in the hospital? Or both!
And people all over China will be traveling. Millions on the move. A contagious virus.
What could go wrong?
4
In mid September I transferred flights in Wuhan. Within a week of arriving in the USA I developed a pneumonia-like virus. This virus persisted for more than a month. After a couple of weeks my wife also developed this virus. This leads me to believe I contracted this virus months before it was acknowledged as a serious health threat. Luckily I am a healthy person but I can recognize that less healthy people could be at serious risk from the duration and severity of this virus. Remaining silent about this virus has caused many people to suffer and some to die.
15
I think it’s important to note that this disease is already hitting closer to home than this article suggests: as a military wife on Guam, with a husband deployed in the Pacific, I can’t help but think of the many service members and their families currently stationed in South Korea, Japan, and our own island that receives plenty of tourists from the affected countries. I hope U.S. defense officials have a plan for action to protect these people as well.
12
Countries need to realize the dangers of having politics influence every decision that they're making. Of course, this is a hard task to accomplish and honestly, I don't ever see this happening in the future since in today's world, everything revolves around politics. However, censoring news articles and social media posts for nearly a month is too extreme. I understand that this may have been done to prevent the public from panicking and causing chaos, but the government should have at least acknowledged the spread of the virus and told the public certain steps they could take to assist in getting the virus under control. If the Chinese government went public and confirmed the illness sooner, then the outbreak might not be as large as it is now. Especially since China has the world's largest population, people could have begun to wear public masks and been more cautious earlier on. Additionally, they shouldn't have gone as far as to take down social media posts that bring awareness to the problem. Not only does this decrease the trust between the government and its citizens, but in this case, it put the public's health at stake. People should have the right to bring awareness to problems that affect their own daily lives through social media posts. Hopefully, this infection gets contained and the Chinese authorities' decision to delay the reporting of this outbreak won't have too much of a negative effect on the outcome.
7
@Erika
It was the local authorities who failed. Let’s remember that China is just not small peanuts. I can just imagine the amount of resources that they would have to channel to tackle something like this.
Wuhan’s population alone is 11 million. That’s like declaring a health emergency for the entire state of New York without the governor of the state having the power to do so.
But your larger point is definitely true. The number one reason for having governments is that they are supposed to put the interests of the people before any other interests. Transparency and honesty should be a value that all people in authority positions should possess.
2
@Erika wrote "... If the Chinese government went public and confirmed the illness sooner, then the outbreak might not be as large as it is now...."
Seriously, without Emperor Xi's approval, no Chinese officials dare to do that. Don't make the mistake of thinking that the Chinese Communist Regime and the US are morally equivalent. One is a democracy (notwithstanding Trump) and the other is a vicious dictatorship that observes no bounds in asserting its power. The Chinese Communist Regime is an authoritarian Orwellian nightmare.
BTW, I hope you remember what happened in Chernobyl.
1
While it is disappointing to see a party in power take such control over the spread of information on a public health crisis, It is not entirely unsurprising. I believe this is especially believable given the response to the spread of information online during other recent events in China. For example, a Tiktok user had attempted to spread information about the persecution of Uyghur Muslims living in China, and she tried to inform her followers about what was being done to the victims. However, as Tiktok is a Chinese-owned company, her video was taken down. Nevertheless, she continued to make videos in the hopes that users of the app would demand for change and continue spreading awareness like she attempted to.
Still, it should not be assumed that the spread of information being strictly controlled by the government is exclusively due to the fact that the Chinese government is in Charge. An event like the recent crisis in Sudan and the heavy restrictions on internet use show that control over the spread of information is not exclusive to a singular country.
It is still especially disappointing, though, that after an epidemic like SARS stemming from their own country, the Chinese government takes control over how information is spread and gives very little voice to those who act with the health of the public in mind. I do think it is good to see citizens who have caught on to this trick from the government and want greater transparency when it comes to their personal safety.
7
It is noteworthy that the USA DOES NOT have the surge manufacturing capability to produce our own supply of a new vaccine in case of emergency. Not funded. so does not exist. China on the other hand does have the biomedical manufacturing capability. In any case we have not focused resources on adequately funding new technology for fast vaccine production. Currently the research lead time is an unknown and the manufacturing lead time added onto that is several months. If we had the factories here.
16
@Federalist
"China on the other hand does have the biomedical manufacturing capability."
The point is, of course, if your allegations are at all accurate (and, I note, you offer no data open to scrutiny),
will China's asserted "biomedical manufacturing capability" be exploited?
Do you see how easy it is to sound superficially authoritative?
2
Non-Federalist, before lauding the Red Chinese too loudly, the question arises whether that '' biomedical manufacturing capability'' is WHERE the Sars virus or this coronavirus was developed.
That government has obviously placed less value on the lives of human beings than any other society in the past eighty years.
1
Because of globalization, the disease is spreading out of control over last month since the news first came out; however, the accusation of the government in slowing down the process of reporting can be also biased in western social media. The overall theme about how the government is censoring internet comments and not reporting the real situation can be argued either way. The comment in how the government officials act calmly when reporting the current situation instead of showing how urgent the situation can be rethought. Although government has the responsibility in telling people about the virus since the beginning, they all also responsible in stabilizing citizens' emotions during this critical period, which is Chinese New Year. Censoring certain contexts on the internet does not mean government is hiding the real effects of this virus to the public. None of us know if the comments are real or not on internet, or it's just someone trying to get attention by talking about the situation from his perspective. Instead of bringing panic into society at this moment of the year, the government is doing their job in protecting citizens' misunderstanding in current situation. While no scientists are able to know how to cure this disease other than giving antibiotics, government has the right to hold onto their uncertainties in some steps and figure out a way to confirm their concerns before letting the public know. Chinese government is putting in consideration.
4
China was hopeless against African swine disease. They will not be more successful here. We hope this virus mutates or burns itself out before spreading further. Areas like India and the Philippines should be especially concerned.
7
@albert
this virus is not likely to burn itself out and let's hope it doesn't mutate, it could very easily mutate into something even deadlier.
1
Not indicated in the article but the CDC has a web page for those interested.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nCoV/summary.html#risk-assessment
It would appear that considerable information exists and action is being taken.
12
1. If you are sick, or feeling sick, stay home, believe me your office will get along fine without you, and your co-workers really don’t want to be exposed to your deadly germs. Just as you wouldn’t bring a rabid dog to work you don’t need to bring a deadly virus to work either. Businesses in general have to rethink how sick days are recorded. If you have a contagious disease like the flu or this new virus, you should be allowed to stay home till you are no longer contagious and it should not count against your sick days , this will keep people’s from coming to work when they are sick and spreading it around.
2. Do not be ashamed to wear a face mask in public , in China people have no problem doing this and the virus is still spreading , Americans have always looked askance at people wearing face masks during flu season we must get over this.
3. Stop the handshake - a guaranteed flu spreader. It’s polite, but deadly
4. Cover your cough...I mean it cover your cough...it should be a law the way spitting on the sidewalk use to be.
5. Constantly wash your hands with hot water and soap use a paper towel to open all door handles than dispose of the towel in a special trash can provided for this.
6. It should be mandatory that ever business, school and basically anything with a bathroom install sinks and paper towel dispensers that work through motion detectors and do not need to be touched.
We will get through this but the time to get smart about viruses is now.
26
@Lonnie - You don't have to tell government workers to stay home if they are sick. They get paid while staying home, and they get paid for doing no work, while at work. And if you think I'm lying, I've been driving around with an expired drivers license even though I paid for a new one in August 2019 and I've filled in the government form stating that I haven't gotten my license at least twice now. I think I'll do it again right now ... adios.
4
@Lonnie
Offices are amongst the worst offenders, management and supervisors will reprimand you and threaten you with a “write up” by HR.
Workers on the lowest rung are always treated this way.
Many if not most office buildings are self-contained environments like being on an airplane, and the bad air just circulates throughout the building.
Studies and media exposés were done yeas ago about how airlines don’t change dirty air filters regularly, they still don’t.
In an office you run around answering other people's phones, using their dirty keyboards, sharing pens and other implements.
1
A lot of reports are already on WeChat, and information is unregulated on WeChat because we use picture messages. Basically, there was news on WeChat, and the official came out later. So the information is fairly transparent.
4
It's not transparent if you have to use loopholes to get information out.
3
Where is this “history’s Pillar of Shame”? Can I see it? I’d like to see who the unfortunates are that got nailed to it.
11
@Mike I assure you that most members of the ruling party will have his (or her future) competitor's name engraved on it.
1
One movie comes to mind: CONTAGION
5
300 sick, six dead ... terrible, of course, but why are we acting as if this was an Ebola outbreak when the common flu killed 30,000 people in the US alone last winter?
26
The fear is mutation into a deadlier form that spreads easily from person to person.
Sometimes is does feel like we are putting out small fires everywhere, though.
5
Well, we don't yet know the full scale of this outbreak. That's the worrisome part. I read that one patient infected 14 medical workers, and I'm thinking this must be one nasty virus.
2
China is truly barbaric under XI. It is failing at the basic expectations of a government to keep its people safe.
15
@Grace I agree that the Chinese government under Xi is barbaric, but it seems to me that over the entire span of my life, every Chinese government has been barbaric. I think the Chinese people today are the result of tens of thousands of years Darwinian selection for people who can keep a stiff upper lip and maintain the will to live in the face of government oppression, disease, invasion by barbarians, starvation and hellish overcrowding.
They're tough and smart. Like all the other things they've had to put up with, they'll get through this.
The case where one patient infected 14 healthcare workers suggests that this patient was a "superspreader" of the virus. If there are superspreaders of this new virus, the situation may be similar to that of the related SARS virus, where superspreaders are thought to have greatly accelerated the development of the epidemic.
6
Urbanization and technological advancements have allowed for a highly linked modern world which is convenient but also problematic. Air travel facilitates disease spread not only between cities, but continents, thus greatly complicating the work of epidemiologists in containing sudden outbreaks. However, rather than assuming a reactionary approach in response to an outbreak, preventive measures would save time, costs, and lives. These include educating the population on how zoonotic diseases are transmitted and measures they can undertake to protect themselves, as well as establishing regulations on animal markets. As there is a preference in China for fresh meat obtained in animal markets, the population is unlikely to stop frequenting them. Therefore, implementing regulations such as testing animals for common zoonotic diseases is a viable solution. With the increasing emergence of novel zoonotic pathogens, these precautions are likely to save many lives in the future. In China and other countries, screening measures have been implemented in airports to limit the spread of the disease. In situations like these, the role of the World Health Organization is vital to ensure the containment of the outbreak and benefits from countries' transparency.
5
It's time and past time to put all hands to work on a universal flu vaccination. Inherited immunity from the 1918 flu has expired while international travel and urban population density has multiplied the risks. A no-holds-barred Manhattan project for a worldwide flu vaccine could save us from a global pandemic - if it's not too late.
4
@M Davis this isn't flu and a universal flu vaccine won't stop this virus
13
@M Davis And to add to D's post, a universal flu vaccine is being heavily researched, not at Manhattan project levels but definitely at relatively high levels for a single disease and vaccine.
2
@M Davis This is a different disease and the flu virus mutates constantly so there really is no single universal vaccine.
8
If there were any countries in the world which can handle this kind of outbreak, it is China. The superiority of the Chinese system is on full display. China's system is built for such unprecedented crisis.
4
@S. C. really? China is many things but I don't believe that they can get a handle on this. Their fear of public discontent will immediately put a cork in any coordinated public effort.
6
@S. C. This is by no means an unprecedented crisis. At this stage it is not even a national crisis in China.
Being trained as virologist to understand how viruses evade host defense and emerge out of the blue once in a blue moon, I would like to attempt to answer the central question, I get asked several times, Why deadly viruses keep emerging out of China?
China, most populated country on earth, has ancient traditions and unregulated appetite for exotic animals, reptiles, scorpions, and bird consumption. Also, with so many hungry mouths to feed, back yard poultry farming of wild chickens and consumption of wild creatures crawling, flying, swimming, slithering or creeping is perfect game for human consumption.
My 1st visit to China in 1996 was to the city of Shenzhen and I had taken a tour bus from Hong Kong. 1st stop after entering the city was a market with stuff one would never find in grocery stores any where else in the world eg dead snakes hanging for sale like belts, all kinds of dead and live animals. Circumstantial evidence in this century, from Wiki suggests that the SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome) virus crossed over to humans from Asian palm civets ("civet cats"), a type of animal that is often killed and eaten in Guangdong, China, where SARS was first discovered. However, civet cats are extensively used in food production without causing SARS in their handlers. The current Chinese SARS-like virus which is spreading and killing some, possibly emerged in China for a reason. No other country has a similar ecosystem to support the emergence of such viruses.
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@Girish Kotwal
Most novel viruses are zoonotic in origin (crossing over from animals to humans, then mutating to become transmissible from human to human). With global climate change and habitat loss, humans are living closer to animals and are at greater risk of acquiring zoonoses. This is occurring all over the globe.
In addition, climate change is increasing the range of vectors like mosquitos that bring West Nile virus, Zika virus, chikungunya, and dengue in the Caribbean/US.
There is Nipah virus from bats in SE Asia, MERS from bats in Africa/Middle East, etc.
China does not have a monopoly on novel viruses. Since the US recently withdrew from the Paris climate agreement, and we are still the top producer of greenhouse gasses, maybe we should be examining how our actions have contributed to climate change, habitat loss, and the next zoonotic epidemic.
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@Girish Kotwal
"No other country has a similar ecosystem to support the emergence of such viruses"
Evidence for this statement, please?
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@Girish Kotwal
It's all about poverty, period. China has more outbreaks than more-developed countries, and fewer than less-developed countries. According to Wikipedia, there have been more outbreaks in the 21st century starting from India and even the Democratic Republic of the Congo (which has 1/20th of China's population) than from China: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics#21st_century).
1
How many people would survive without a hospital bed? How many patients are needed to overwhelm local hospitals in Wuhan? If it is viral pneumonia then how long does it take from the initial infection to requiring hospitalization and how long are people able to shed the virus? We know that airport screening did not detect a single case of SARS. It is “public health theatre” and closing borders only delays the inevitable.
I have read that closing schools can halt an outbreak but that is also a little mixed. Children are the most vulnerable, they shed more viruses, they have poorer hygiene and they will infect their parents who go on to infect coworkers. Keeping kids at home forces parents to stay home breaking the potential contact chains. Proactively using antivirals, or giving someone who is already infected antivirals, can reduce the total number of viruses they shed. Too bad this is a new virus. Masks help to stop the spread of the disease if they are worn by those who start to feel sick. Usually images of people wearing masks in Asia are showing the people who feel sick and not people who are afraid of getting sick.
I do expect a useless travel ban after more futile airport screenings, and to be reminded to practice hand washing and to use hand sanitizer.
@PictureBook
Wuhan has more than 10 million people. I doubt a couple hundred patients are going to overwhelm anything. Proportional to total population, this is comparable to the measles outbreak in Portland last year.
Remember when Iran hurriedly cleaned the crash site and said mechanical issues brought down the Ukrainian plane until overwhelming evidence forced them to admit that they shot it down.
A biological arms race could be taking place where the Chinese have already become immune to a certain virus but it wreaks havoc here or in Europe.
We have to be very careful to not accept the government lines of dictatorships like China and Iran and do our own intelligence research and reconnaissance.
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@Heans except that Chinese people are dying from this Corona virus. This isn't a tinfoil hat situation.
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There is the incidence rate or the likelihood that when exposed to the virus you will get sick. Then there is the case fatality rate which is the likelihood of dying if you are sick with the virus. This virus has a high case fatality rate - way higher than influenza. If it has a high incidence rate then we could have 1918 all over again. It is NEVER too early to contain a virus like this. I just hope it does not have a high attack rate.
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Is it a coincidence that it is happening right before brisk travel season.
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From my perspective, the picture in the headline is easy to misinterpret. Those squares could been seen to represent geographical segments, not individuals.
The first people who claimed the virus be person-to-person were vindicated of rumor crime.If the institutions could have acknowlege the seriousness the condition would be in much better control now.
2
Chinese lie about a deadly highly contagious epidemic, cheat for 20 years on the WTO agreement, and Trump expects them to now trade fairly?
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A suggestion for the Times unlikely to be followed but aimed at objectivity.
Exchange the phrase Communist Party with the government when describing current events. Governments of course are always subject to criticism but is may remove the hysterical reaction often seen when describing events in China. Ideology lost its grip long ago bureaucratic inefficiencies are universal and news worthy.
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I mean, to what extent can you separate the party from the government? What government leaders are not also party members? And based on Xi's rhetoric and conversations I've had with Chinese nationalists, I sincerely doubt that ideology is absent from the CCP or the bureaucratic leaders. To me, the term CCP and Chinese government are interchangeable. But, yes, in a news article the technical terms should be used. Perhaps, the Xi administration is a good compromise.
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The only possible way to deter this fatal virus from spreading throughout our country is to forbid planes coming into our country from China and other countries that have a large part of their population infected. We don't need their problem spreading here.
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@Sari Too late.
We live in flyover country, have Feb. flight reservations to visit friends in Kailua, HI, and our reservations will be canceled tomorrow.
Being at ages where catching a virus like this one could be extremely serious, we're going to wait until this outbreak is shown to be under control. Ten-hour flights in a confined space with passengers who may (granted, unknowingly) be infected with this virus is unacceptable at this time.
Knowing now that the virus can spread from person-to-person has made the idea of traveling in the direction of China into a show-stopper.
Having many friends and colleagues in Hawaii, East Asia, and Southeast Asia, we sincerely hope that this outbreak is brought under control at the earliest possible moment.
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@BayArea101 - I could ride my bike to the first American case of this virus. No need to go looking for it.
What is more likely, that China will be more transparent, or that it will attempt to cover its tracks better this time? We have to remember that the Chinese communist party has no interests in the international community or in individual citizens within China. It will sacrifice a few to maintain stability. It has always operated this way.
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@John
Sacrifice a few? That’s the problem! The exponential value is huge. They’ll be wise. They’d also hurt themselves.
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This is increasingly worrisome given that health experts still haven't found the definitive source of the virus's emergence.
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@Stephen V. Dossman The World Health Organization says the virus likely first spread to humans through transmission from an animal at a live animal market in Wuhan.
Six deaths in a nation of 1.4 billion comes out to approximately zero. Basically every cause of death known to humanity had more fatalities in 2019, including choking on toothpicks and falling down stairs.
So this seems very early to me to worry about a pandemic. Even if we did have a worldwide pandemic wherein everyone contracted this virus (hard to believe), the death rate of about 2% would do nothing about our destructive impact on the environment. And thus far, the ordinary flu is far more fatal, and I don't see people panicking about that.
My apologies, but this virus just isn't going to do enough damage to save the world. Better luck next time.
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@Dan Stackhouse First of all, the death rate is still rising, the estimated rate is much higher than 2%. This virus is dangerous because there is no effective cure at the moment and also that it is highly contagious, not to mention that the number could be underreported.
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@Dan Stackhouse the fact the virus developed the ability to transmit from human to human tells you it is mutating rapidly. It did not have that ability a few weeks ago. Mutations can sometimes make it more lethal which although is necessarily not advantageous to the virus because the host death could end their cycle too. I would not underestimate this virus nor should we overestimate our ability to manage it.
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@ D Stackhouse
At one point, Ebola only killed 6 people.
It is too early for anyone to know how lethal this virus may or may not become.
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Often, in the recent past, CDC along with USDA researchers would already be on this. Are they?
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@Jim - I'm sure they are. This virus has already hit the U.S. right in my backyard.
Always check out the CDC website which is also making cautious recommendations about travel... They are definitely ON IT!!!
what is a class B infectious disease?
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@lee de cola
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5886686/
Check. Maybe you have Google on your computer.
It took me two seconds to answer your question this way.
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If it spread internationally it is probably also in Shanghai, Beijing, and other major cities. So new flights should be cancelled and quarantines started.
It might have a delay of 72 hours. Until we know more cancel all flights coming and going to China immediately.
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When the earth gets too warm, it eliminates bodies. By war, famine, disease, weather, etc. It's coming. We asked for it.
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@JoAnne
You are right on target. Infected Bugs be coming!
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@JoAnne Wow, is this type of thinking common among climate change proselytizers? It's like climate paganism, with a dash of Revelations-style apocalyptic imagery. Fascinating.
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@ckilpatrick It is not about climate change which is really a symptom of the greater problem of resource use and abuse. We're the bacteria in the agar plate being suffocated by our own waste.
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I don't want to make light of this, but 300 people in China is a tad like saying 1 person hit their thumb with a hammer so all hammers have been banned forever and anyone possessing a hammer will be nailed forever to history's pillar of shame.
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If the authorities in China say 300, add at least another zero or two after the third digit.
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@Dan Broe
Maybe so, but assuming the fatality count is near to accurate, adding those zeros makes the mortality rate comparable to the usual flu season.
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@Dan Broe
This is likely the case. The Chinese Communist officials have a track record of lying to the public. The same thing happened for the SARS outbreak in 2003.
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Is this how the world ends? Fatal viruses that spread from person to person? If any of our enemies want to infect huge swaths of our population, they could, easily.
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@Brian Nash It’s called germ warfare and the U.S. and other nations are prepared with stockpiles of infectious diseases to use on enemy nations.
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@Brian Nash Yes, but it'll probably be bacteria, not viruses, and it'll be mostly our fault, not China's.
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Not in this case, with a 2% fatality rate. Nor is it that easy to infect large groups. What we'd need in order to end civilization, would be a fatality rate of over 85% or so, to cause full societal breakdown. In order to end humanity, we'd need more like 99% fatality, and such a virus has never existed. But eliminating all of humanity wouldn't end the world, at this point it would pretty much save the world.
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Isn't it just like those authoritarian governments to push those paper masks as if they actually do anything significant to prevent virus transmission? It is the epitome of false security unless someone coughs or sneeze right near you. Better get plenty of N95 or better yet, N100 respirator masks which are expensive.
Wash your hands. A lot.
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I believe China is downplaying the severity of this contagion.
They never tell the truth about anything.
We cannot rely on their reports so the US should be on guard, not naively hoping for the best.
It's too bad we have watered down government agencies with untested leadership. Most of the agencies we will need in a pandemic crisis are understaffed.
We are in trouble. America is totally unprepared for a pandemic.
People die from this SARS - like illness.
Keep an eye on this. It's deadly.
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So you think the US government is more truthful than China?
6
We could stop this by simply inconveniencing ourselves for about ten days. No traveling. Just stay put. No planes, trains, boats, etc. How difficult would that be really? No non-essential travel.
As Blackmamba said below "The world is one boat, car, train and plane ride away from the next human pandemic."
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Not to worry, Trump is going to impose a tariff on the virus to stop it from being imported to the US.
I seriously doubt that he or his advisers believe in vaccines.
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Is the pillar of shame an actual tourist attraction?
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@Frederic Mokren
Yes, it is an SM amusement park in Macao.
Look it up.
2
Um, has anyone ever accused the Chinese dictatorship of being transparent? Or trustworthy? News to me.
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@Sallie To be honest no government is ever 100% transparent, including ours.
Though I've heard some Chinese are angry cause they've let some infected people travel around freely to go to another hospital and infect more people rather than quarantining them. Chinese communist party is trying to silence the spread on Weibo cause they don't want to admit they didn't learn from SARS
9
While the world/NY Times focuses on Trump tweets and what he had for lunch at Davos, a truly full tilt emergency is unfolding. This is "Contagion" in real life.
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@Midwest Josh
I believe the Times has the resources to cover both "Contagions."
14
President Xi is already on the "pillar of shame"
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@Kevin They should just rename said pillar to the Trump/Xi pillar and be done.
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....and we’re heading into the world’s largest human migration for the Chinese Lunar New Year.
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This article is overthinking, and it is criticizing Chinese reactions in a strange way. Although the Chinese Government, as well as Mr. Xi, seems not taken this matter seriously enough, their actions are thoroughly concerned. First, as a traveler from China mainland two days ago, people in China have never received the message of “forever nailed to history’s pillar of shame.” Even though this is the fact, it just means that people have to be responsible for their actions to themselves and to society. About slowly acknowledging the seriousness of the new virus, I believe that the Chinese government has been reacting fast enough. As a Chinese resident, I began to hear about the news regarding the new virus when it began to infect only several in Wuhan. It should not take the government’s efforts to acknowledge people upon the seriousness of such shocking fact, because this is what the internet does ---- it is the fastest media of acknowledgments. Second, it is very important to lower the anxiety among people. This time is the most special period in a year for Chinese people because everyone is traveling back home to meet their family. To make sure the virus is under control and provide a safe environment for people at the same time is a difficult task. Yes, the world is watching China, this is why Mr. Xi should have been taken his best action to solve this problem. If he wants people’s trust and a higher prestige around the world, he will do his best.
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@Herbert
Didn’t it take the media in Hong Kong to sound the alarm before the Chinese government to communicate broadly about the infection?
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@Earthling Nope. Literally not at all. There is zero truth to what you just said - but thanks for asking so I could clear it up.
Chinese news agencies reported it well ahead of time before HK got their hands on it.
3
@Herbert wrote "...As a Chinese resident, I began to hear about the news regarding the new virus when it began to infect only several in Wuhan. It should not take the government’s efforts to acknowledge people upon the seriousness of such shocking fact, because this is what the internet does ---- it is the fastest media of acknowledgments.”
Giving the history of the Chinese Communist Regime on handling and lying about SARS in 2003, let's look at what the CCP had done. The SARS outbreak was at its most serious in March of 2003, a month after the Chinese New Year. Four months earlier, in early December, some news outlets had reported that in a couple of towns in Southern Guangdong, all supplies of bleach had been sold out in days. SARS had been around for at least four months before it was identified. The Communist China has always insisted on censoring negative news about the country, and whatever is happening in Wuhan now. So far, eight people who shared their stories about the deadly virus have been arrested for spreading rumors in Wuhan.
You sound like repeating the propaganda of the Chinese Communist Regime. If you believe in Emperor Xi, what is the reason living in Boston? I get it: supporting the Communist party is a job, but living in America is the goal.
1
It would be very helpful to know which animal incubated this virus - fish, poultry, or pork.
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@Angela fish have never transmitted a respiratory virus to humans. The SARs outbreak (a type of Coronavirus) came from cats. The Middle East version came from camels.
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Neither of those. It’s rat. Yes originally somebody had contact with the wildlife
1
@Angela - Who cares? It will enter the ecosystem regardless.
1
There is one case in United States already. I hope we do not have anymore. Currently we do not have a capacity to manage a highly infectious viral outbreaks in the United States. Hospitals are under considerable stress with isolation beds. There are numerous other antibiotic resistant organisms taking vast number of hospital beds. We just have to pray that this bug does not spread in the Untied States. The most powerful economy in the world is not really so powerful in terms of containing epidemics. I hope the American public realized that.
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@SridharC Agreed. It would have been nice if certain hospitals in NYC weren't torn down and replaced with luxury condos. No forethought whatsoever.
21
I agree. Our healthcare system is on the ropes. The population is aging; we have a opioid crisis. Antibiotic resistant viruses remain a MAJOR concern to any health care professionals I know. We are physically compromised. This virus could spread as quickly as wildfire. In 1918 500 million people were infected with the “Spanish Influenza” including my great grandmother. I urge all concerned citizens to engage. Know the facts. Pay attention! Vote 11/3/20
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@SridharC Wait, you mean we can't merely pray it away? Where's Tricky Ricky Perry when we need him?
15
Infectious disease stats are minimums and reporting usually lags by days or weeks while actual numbers keep growing.
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Instead of decontaminating the air, water and food source, China invests heavily in making sophisticated propaganda to deceive, as well as technology and police to suppress dissents. Instead of solving domestic issues, the authoritarian turned the country into a loan shark—using infrastructural projects to form ally with impoverished countries. For the sake of global dominance, these long-term investments drain China’s reserve that could have been used to improve the wellbeing of ordinary Chinese nationals.
Ruling by fear, the CCP purges whoever dares to criticize the government’s empty promises and mounting debts. Today, even people who try to share vital health information to curb a possible pandemic would be branded as unpatriotic. Government bureaucrats, too worry about the country’s international stature and how an outbreak might affect the declining economy, despite deadly consequences, have to bury the truth as long as they can. Citizens act brave to demonstrate blind loyalty fear of reprisal—even when families from overseas shared the news with them.
“We’re fine. I trust the central government.” That was the response my friend got when she called her family in Wuhan to warn them about the coronavirus a week ago. While people in Hong Kong tried to investigate the spread of 2019-nCoV nearly a month, Mainlanders are reluctant to take action. Lunar New Year activities are still in planning because the nationals will never learn about the truth until it’s too late.
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@Lam Your statement is singularly untrue. I went back to my hometown Shanghai after ten year’s absence and found previously heavily contaminated rivers were now clean with willows and many trees on the riverbanks. You can make many valid accusations against the Chinese government, but making false statement not based on evidence or experience will not help your argument.
My friend from the Mainland said the biggest cause for pollution is the lack of regulations and the loss of moral senses due to people’s hunger for wealth. Now China is starting to reeducate the people and act on these cumulative environmental problems, but it’s really too little and too late.
China’s energy industry is trying to move on from its coal-burning past towards a more sustainable future. But the sun’s rays cannot even cut through the country’s densely polluted atmosphere.
Though 16.1% of soil samples collected from around the country showed evidence of chemical contamination, there’s no law governing soil pollution in China and spending on soil remediation in China accounts for less than 1% of the environmental protection sector as a whole.
https://www.chinadialogue.net/article/show/single/en/10949-Can-China-s-new-soil-pollution-law-reverse-decades-of-harm-
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/08/china-air-pollution-blocks-solar-panels-green-energy/
3
One case has now been confirmed in the US. Let's hope this virus doesn't go viral. And whatever you do, ignore what Trump and his fellow Republicans say about the virus as it's quite likely to be disinformation.
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The Times reports that the infection has arrived in the US via a traveler from China to Washington.
What are the CDC and president Trump waiting for? How bad must it get before they act to ban travel to the US from infected areas?
We don't need a repeat of Obama's welcoming Ebola to the US by refusing to ban travel to the US from infected areas because, as Obama admitted, his primary concern was preserving the economic well-being of the infected foreign nations, not protecting the health of Americans.
14
@Errol
We never had an Ebola epidemic. The people who were infected were the ones who were treating patients Africa, and they were transported back for treatment, under extreme isolation precautions.
29
@Errol Nobody "welcomed Ebola". You sound like Trump did when he tweeted about not allowing sick health care workers back to the US for care. This virus will probably have a death rate similar to influenza, did you get your flu shot?
27
@Earthling
You are incorrect. And, I never said we had an Ebola epidemic.
The Ebola epidemic was in Africa. Ebola was completely non-existent in the US until it arrived here inside Thomas Duncan, a Liberian citizen who was permitted by Obama edict to travel from Liberia to the US. 2 American nurses caught Ebola in Texas from Duncan while caring for him in the hospital issued garb which was inadequate CDC preparation for the arrival of Ebola which was almost certain to arrive because Obama refused to impose a travel ban.
2
Why are we not instituting a travel ban to and from China? This is going to spread like wildfire. Expect thousands of cases in the US very soon.
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@CP People will stop going to the infested area automatically. The travel ban is a need jerk reaction and not necessary. Just think, the next the US has a similar disease like Legionnaires' disease or aids, the rest of the world will ban us from traveling.
7
@tedc
1) Traveling to infected areas is not a problem for the health and lives of Americans. It is traveling FROM infected areas to the US (directly or indirectly) that is the problem for Americans' health and lives. That is why a travel ban is essential to substantially reduce introduction of the infection to the US.
2) If the price of us protecting our lives is that the rest of the world decides not to welcome American vacation tourists, then so be it. We don't have any right to demand entry to their countries and foreigners don't have any right to demand entry into our country (contrary to left wing ideology).
3
Will China’s latest export trigger more trade negotiations ?
9
When the PRC becomes a hot zone once the new year travel season makes contagion prevention impossible, we will be looking at a Spanish Influenza (January 1918 – December 1920) global pandemic scenario and even developed nations are not ready for a culling pandemic that will touch every community and family as the virus circles the globe within days. The world is not prepared for a mass casualty pandemic event.
5
Depending on your demographic you are more likely to contract an antibiotics resistant infection and die as a result of complications from the flu or measles if you are not vaccinated. If we are to ban traveling here from infected places why were there no bans on people coming here from where measles was endemic???
Can't there be a mandate for all citizens to wear masks in public? I know this is a hindrance in certain situations, like going out to eat, but there are too many people who don't understand basic etiquette even when they're not sick (sneezing and/or coughing without covering their mouths). I think it would go a long way in helping control this.
10
@NYC mandate!? ... something about land of the free.
5
@NYC Masks are long sold-out here in China. So plenty of people are wearing them. Even if there was a 'mandate' there aren't enough masks for everyone. Best to stay home if that is an option (which is what I hear was done with SARS in 2003).
2
@Mystery Lits- sorry, if the choice is getting deathly ill vs. a mask mandate, I’m choosing the mask without complaint.
3
Still waiting to hear about a coronavirus jumping from tofu, plants to people. Slaughtered and live animals packed in open, public markets? Maybe the Chinese government might want to discourage that. One would have thought that the SARS crisis from civit cats might have led to some regulation that was actually enforced. WHO, time to act.
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@Anonymouse Maybe not coronaviruses, but E. Coli bacteria contamination of vegetables happens all the time here in the States.
It's best to thoroughly cook anything you eat.
31
@Zabadoh - Pretty hard to cook romaine lettuce.
What about the test being posed to America’s leadership? Let’s add more funding to the CDC.
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@AGoldstein
Sure, throw more money at the problem but definitely don't do effective measures like a travel ban.
2
@Errol Is that an effective measure or does it just negatively affected area’s response? Please provide data.
3