Hmmm....methinks someone is in line for a Trump pardon. The other highlight: only an American woman could say with a straight face that if she had known she was going to get caught in a lie, then she wouldn't have told a lie. Which is a lie....haha!
I saw a lot of miscreants have their careers ended after a 'hail and farewell' event. How any commanding officer could think it's a good idea to get drunk around his subordinates and sleep with one of their wives is beyond me.
23
@KCF nobody was convicted of a crime. Concentrate.
Gitmo and every detail of this story illustrates the failures of America and it's arrogant claims to any moral highground. Disgusting.
8
6,000 people on Guantanamo are looking after 40 prisoners and each other.
Amazing show of force.
Or stupidity.
11
What's strangest to me is that no one seems concerned with how the guy died. Shouldn't there have been an investigation involving likely murder suspects? Both the wife and Nettleton both seem to have had motive. If this happened in real 'small town America', they both would have been hauled off to jail under suspicion of murder. Sure, he might have got the scrapes during the fight then committed suicide, but that would be the job of investigators to prove.
Clearly, the military handles things very differently.
9
So, when exactly do we return this stolen property back to the rightful owners...the Cuban people? Asking for a friend.
5
A story worthy of the tabloids!
1
Having been in an O club or two I must confess I'm not shocked.
3
There is two faces to the installation. Unfortunately just the prison gets the news. Two different purposes. Separate and apart. Families are very safe, kids can actually be kids. No drugs, crime. Can’t say the same for some places in the US.
In 1903 the United States leased 45 square miles of land and water at Guantanamo Bay, from the newly-independent Cuban government, to be used for fleet sustainment by the growing US Navy.
A 1934 treaty reaffirming the lease granted Cuba and her trading partners free access through the Bay, modified the lease payment from $2,000 in gold coins per year to the 1934 equivalent value of $4,085 U.S. dollars, and added a requirement that termination of the lease requires the consent of both the U.S. and Cuban governments, or the U.S. abandonment of the base property. Base relations with Cuba remained stable and did not significantly change until the Cuban Revolution in the late 1950s, with United States and Cuban relations steadily declining as Revolutionary leader Fidel Castro aligned with the Soviet Union. The United States severed diplomatic ties with Cuba in 1961, and in 1964 Castro cut off water and supply avenues to the base. During its long history the base’s activities have at times included fleet training, ship repair, refueling and resupply, migrant operations, regional humanitarian relief and disaster assistance, search and rescue support, and detention operations. Today it remains the forward, ready, and irreplaceable U.S.
3
“We don’t want to turn it into a trial on how Mr. Tur died,” he told the lawyers.
Of course not. We can't be messing with a Navy coverup of murder, now can we?
8
I could have sworn that I voted for two guys who promised they were going to close Gitmo along with ending the war in Afghanistan. And now one of those two guys wants another shot? Been there, done that. And don't give me any excuses as to why Obama/Biden didn't do it. They were given a House AND a Senate and could have done anything.
1
When anything goes, everything goes.
2
An officer convicted of obstruction of justice because he did not tell the truth early enough about what had happened and took steps to avoid inquiry which might have shed light. A commander much senior to him appears to have done the same but says it was the inquiry which was an overreach.
4
Totally shocking that this base permits spouses and families to live there. This is not a Caribbean holiday stop for a cruise ship, it is a prison for "terrorists".
It is said that these men are too dangerous to be on US soil. But we have established communities close to them !!
I understand that families live on or near other permanent bases for convenience sake. Is it such a burden for those serving at the prison to take periodic flights to the mainland?
What about the inmates? Do we have to wait until they all die of old age to close the place? Yea, yea it is a good place to spy on Cuba, etc. but it is impossible to believe that they cannot be moved to the mainland or other countries.
Just another waste of taxpayer monies!
58
@JB
It is a prison since 9/11 but is more than that. It has been a military base for decades. Families are also present at bases in Germany, Japan...
11
@JB This isn't just a prison. Guantanamo has been an American naval base since the early 1900s, whereas the prison there was established in the early 2000s. We have spent trillions of tax payer dollars to support bases like this all around the world. Just like Guantanamo, these bases are tax payer subsidized "USA small towns" for the US military with cheap booze and American goods. All of this, generally implanted in an often resentful "host country" without much, if any respect for the local culture and norms. We the taxpayers are supporting a Defence Budget of well over $700 Billion this year alone.
26
Guantanamo sounds like a small town with not enough to do and too much drinking. It’s no surprise there are marital problems and bad behavior you could find anywhere. But it’s somewhat of a surprise that military discipline and honor weren’t more closely followed, although that’s perhaps naive on my part. As too often happens, overconsumption of alcohol can lead to bad choices, violence, and even death.
I hope a new base commander can chart a better course there, but maybe it’s time to close the base and save US taxpayers gobs of money. We should face the fact that the few remaining prisoners, many of whom were tortured or are accused based on evidence partly produced by torture, will never get fair trials. Instead they can be sent to Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia that are allied to us and can hold them quite safely.
49
Gitmo is not just about the prison. I was there in the 80s for training - it was tough. The Atlantic fleet uses it to train ships’ crews for various emergencies, such as what to do for an onboard fire, getting torpedoed, etc. Since there’s not a ton of ship traffic nearby, it’s ideal for that.
Back to the article, I was stationed at Keflavik, Iceland, and similar behavior occurred there. Fortunately for people that were stationed there (the base has been closed for over 20 years now), you could go off-base and see the country. That’s not the case in Cuba.
12
Is free flowing alcohol on US bases part of the military budget paid out of our tax dollars?
I recall Republican consternation when GSA during the Obama Administration spent money on expensive muffins for a conference.
I also know that civilian federal employees are strictly forbidden from charging any food or drink using tax dollar funded federal budgets.
It seems the military budgets are free to do what they like with few restrictions, quite unlike the civilian federal budgets.
Yet, when Americans complain of bloated government agencies wasting money its never targeted at the military. It always targeted at the EPA, of SNAP/Food Stamps, or Medicaid, etc..all the programs the GOP hate.
116
@PP
I seriously doubt the alcohol is taxpayer funded.
But everything else is.
Guantánamo Bay expenses now work out to about $13 million for each of the 40 prisoners being held there.
According to a tally by The New York Times, the total cost in 2018 of holding the prisoners — including the men accused of plotting the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks — paying for the troops who guard them, running the war court and doing related construction, exceeded $540 million.
The $13 million per prisoner cost almost certainly makes Guantánamo the world’s most expensive detention program.
Alcohol is the least of the military's problems.
Its total lack of accountability, excess militarism and corrupt right-wing culture are real problems, though.
84
This sounds like Guantanamo is completely out of control, a base whose leaders are drenched in alcohol and live in an alcohol abusing society. Which is, indeed, a toxic culture at some military bases. When the commander is an abuser, it just gets worse.
I'm not condemning anyone here. I am stating that it sounds like a huge systemic problem that won't be fixed by changing faces.
145
@Ernest Montague My comment was to point out that Mr. Tur had been hired to oversee efforts prevent shoplifting at the base commissary.
When a person is hired full time to oversee efforts to prevent shoplifting at a base commissary, and is still on the job four years later, there's obviously a problem with discipline and morale, if not a problem with lawlessness in general. And that's without anyone dying in strange and scandalous circumstances.
16
All navy exchanges and commissaries (like stores everywhere) have permanent loss prevention personnel. It’s not a temporary position that you work yourself out of.
7
From everything going on with the SEALS to the crash of the Marine and Navy planes to the accidents on all the Navy ships it sounds like the Navy is coming apart. To many wars. To many deployments. Discipline is falling apart. There needs to be a complete overhaul.
129
That must start at the top.
28
I visited the base four decades ago when my father was the fire chief at NASGitmo. I found the people there, from the CO and his wife to the lieutenant commanding a squad of Marines on the perimeter fence to the firefighters to the scuba divers I met there to be fine people. Courteous, open to ideas, interested and respectful. Of course this is my personal experience, and could be dated and limited, but it is a counterpoint to the story of a booze-soaked Peyton Place.
3
News flash, Dan.
Things have changed in the last 40 years.
5
Another case of a failure of military discipline and personal integrity. Other similar events should cause us to pause before giving our armed forces a blank check as a trustworthy institution. I speak from experience - academy grad, O-5 commanding officer, retired as Captain at 30 yrs. I've never regretted my service, but am concerned for our military's reputation.
My career began with the draft during Vietnam. By time I graduated the war was over and we had the volunteer force. I survived the military's Vietnam-damaged reputation through the 1970's.
Over time, the volunteer armed forces has changed the make-up of our military, besides shielding 98% of citizens from any impacts of the wars we fight (especially since the country refuses to increase taxes to pay the bills). We know volunteers no longer represent the US population. Increased pay/benefits offer lower classes better opportunities than available in the economy. I also fear the development of a "mercenary" trend, which I think explains some travesties the last 20 years. If I were boss, the draft would be back. The public might even have more to say about where/when the US chooses to fight.
I'm not saying true patriots aren't volunteering for our armed forces. I am saying the public must not give the military a free pass. Trust/integrity can never be taken for granted - they must be earned - day after day. I'd hate to see the loss of respect for yet another of our institutions.
25
Gosh! Who Would have thought that people running a base specifically picked to prevent the unconvicted suspects imprisoned their rights under the US Constitution would be run by men who don't believe that the law applies to them?
19
The Navy has always been good at covering up anything that reflects poorly upon them.
9
This is right out of “Lord of the Flies.”
8
I always had in my mind Gitmo was an austere prison base with Marine Guards and a very minimal civillian support staff. 6,000 people was a surprise. Also curious about a prior post saying Cuban employees. Wonder if that is still the case. As far as refusing CG helicopters.....that's really troubling becuase CG specialty is search and rescue. Navy not so much.
12
@Jim Z
I think I read that the last Cuban national employed on the base either retired or died some months ago.
1
The level of drinking that the article seems to indicate is normal is appalling. It makes me have no confidence in the people who are in charge there. Long past the time for classic frat boy behavior.
17
At the very least, it will be easy to locate Captain Nettleton should additional evidence appear.
How is it he was able to retire in March 2018 without facing a court martial for, at least, conduct unbecoming of an officer? Who authorized such a quiet exit? Why?
Who was the officer to whom Captain Nettleton reported in January 2015? Did that officer ask questions at the time?
What actions have the current commander taken to clean up the base? Starting with grape juice instead of hard cider.
9
@Daniel P. Doyle he was relieved of command.
1
Isn’t it time, at long last, to just close down Guantanamo? It’s a big fat embarrassment to us all the way around. We don’t need it strategically at all. Just give it up. Tear down everything, haul it out to sea, and dump it. Leave the place clean.
24
@DRS
President Obama wanted to close it and had multiple plans yet the same nasty GOP, Bloomberg didn’t want the institution closed
It should be closed but as long as the Russian loving GOP are in office nothing will change it won’t close
17
Don’t dump it in the sea! Good heavens! The sea is mot supposed to be the Navy’s garbage can. Sheesh!
11
Turn it back over to the Cubans whose land it once was and should be.
15
I was shipwrecked on a sailboat in Gitmo in '77. Spent 4 months on the Rock. Except for the Beware of mine field signs the place was pretty cool. I remember seeing the crowd of Cuban citizens who held jobs at the base entering the gate to go to their work sites every morning. Thought that was a little surprising.
12
Interesting. The part that stood out to me is that Nettleton was immediately opposed to coast guard helicopters. Combine that with his already poor judgement to have an affair with the Mr. Tur's wife and his poor decision to withhold information while searching for the man and it's a no brainier to me...he is responsible. He knows he could have assisted the search or done what he should have done and report fight. I am curious about extent of Mr. Tur's injuries and where all the medication in his system came from. I feel for Mr. Tur's children. Regardless of wheather or not Mr. Tur was verbally and emotionally abusive, Ms. The chose to cheat. Yes I am passing judgement as cheating is cowardly and obviously resulted in more then just emotional pain to her family. Her children now lost their father. I have witnessed selfish people ruin families over cheating and yet the cheater usually has an excuse.
22
@Heather - wondering if your holier than thou judgement on the cheating would be leveled in the same manner about a male doing the cheating. Somehow you strike me as one of those "I know cheating is wrong, but he's a guy and she's a mother" type of folks. In any event, keep your judgements to yourself
2
If you read the Navy Times you will be surprised at the number of senior officers relieved of command due to "a loss of confidence in his ability to command." That covers a wide range of potential problems and asks more questions than it answers. Unlike this situation, most don't make the news outside of the military. Here's one from just two days ago: https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2020/01/16/navy-cans-warship-co/
What I wonder is whether there are that many problems or whether the senior leadership in the Navy moves quickly whenever someone doesn't meet incredibly demanding standards.
11
How on earth does the United States soberly defend owning a part of Cuba?? Imperialism at its very best. Not to mention everything else that goes on there.
19
@Shirley Guantánamo is the US Gibraltar. It is ours not theirs. Plus we pay I rent I believe.
3
@sebastian - if we pay rent then it’s “theirs” not “ours.”
17
It's not as if Cuba has a choice or wrote the lease. Ask Donald if he has ever accepted a lease drawn up by his tenant, with his tenant stating the terms in perpetuity. Cuba does not cash the US checks because they have been given no say in this arrangement. Ask any US politician who advocates keeping Gitmo. They arrogantly express that it's our place and our base. That makes Gitmo a US colony unlike any other US base where we would likely leave when demanded to by the host nation.
5
"The other was Christopher M. Tur.....four years earlier for a job overseeing efforts to prevent shoplifting from the base commissary."
Wait, what? Shoplifting was so prevalent at the base commissary that a full time employee was needed to oversee efforts to prevent it, and he's still on the job four years later?
That level of shoplifting shows a breakdown in discipline and moral....heck, it shows a general lawlessness even without the criminal charges discussed in depth by the article.
73
@Yeah: so the military is having a problem with shoplifting by the military personnel and the dependants?
4
Just another example of what happens when the world's two most destructive drugs, testosterone and alcohol, are mixed.
Had these Mcdonald's and BBQ stuffed warlords smoked pot instead, the one who is dead most likely would not now be.
And these are the kind of men that look at female "emotionalism" as "irrational". So the violence of male anger is rational?
56
Twenty years in the Navy and my #1 goal was to stay out of Gitmo!
12
Small towns tend to be socially incestuous. I would think when the community is isolated and strongly tied to one institution, the military in this case, the stresses would rapidly multiply.
It would be interesting to see the rates of alcoholism, domestic violence, etc compared to the broader military and civilian society.
If there is a material increase, what can be done to mitigate the stressors? Those serving and their families deserve the best we can do.
20
The military is certainly different than when I served many years ago in a foreign country but one thing, I imagine, has not changed much. While not engaged in its primary mission of fighting, there are mind numbing periods of boredom filled with make work functions. With all the personal baggage soldiers and sailors bring with them from civilian life, alcohol and drug use fill the void of really purposeful military work and bad things are going to happen.
25
Why are the taxpayers funding this frat house nonsense? 5,000 employees? We ship all their cars to a Cuban island? All to supposedly monitor 40 criminals. What an abject disaster, wasting billions on these clowns while domestic needs are starved.
121
@Osito
It was a US naval base long before being known as a prison, and it still is.
10
@Jim the spanish american so called war was a criminal act by the US to replace one colonial, criminal power-spain- with another... like we stole the southwest from mexico with slavery in mind,..read US Grant on the Mexican war, Mark Twain on the Spanish American...
Now our bloated, self indulgent military has a commander in chief who loves the show, the free rides, and could care less about the mission or the justice....
19
@John Zotto What missions? Beating each other up, sleeping with each other's wives and steering From the base stores? Oh I know! Keeping America safe from Cuban attacks.
7
In many ways this episode sounds like some of the stories I've heard about pre WW II isolated/semi-isolated military bases.
The more things change...
USN 1967-71
Vietnam 1968
28
The peace time army; I lived in it briefly in South Korea in the 60’s-lots of drinking.and out of control stuff..although not our commanding officers. It may have been different and worse if pretty American women were there. Best example of that: the movie “From Here to Eternity.”
13
Nobody said it but the story is open to interpretation that Mr Tur was murdered and that Nettleton's involvement was covered up.
41
On TV, the NCIS cast would have solved Mr. Tur's murder.
24
@Art
Yeah. It would have been a middle eastern terrorist.
2
Sounds like the sad, tawdry plot of a small-town murder mystery. A night of drunken debauchery and a lovers quarrel ends with a body in the drink, corrupt forces at the top try to sweep it under the rug, somebody overhears an argument, and in the end a big city reporter blows the lid off the whole can of worms.
And yet we go on reading. Maybe a part of us secretly likes watching these puffed up military martinets fall flat on their face.
10
Why on Earth do we have a naval base at Guantanamo, so close to the USA?
11
@Enrique Giraldo So we can keep men without trial. Yes, it is 19 years since 9/11, but they may have needed information. It also serves so that the US gets around international law by the base being in another country. Do love it we keep these last prisoners while the former mayor during 9/11 is in bed with the Russians, criminals in the Ukraine, and groups from Iran that are on the US terrorist list, but Attorney General Barr does not appear to notice. Want evil look in the White House. Now a Trump defense team of two sexual predators. Don't worry I am sure the Capt Nettleton will get a pardon as soon as ex Congressman Duncan Hunter from his prison cell appears on FOX and Friends and convicted former NYC Police Commissoner Kerick as well. America the land that lost its way and became a dictatorship. Jim Trautman
21
@trautman
Barr, trump are evil why would they care. Sweep crime under the rug especially when you are the criminals
1
Where is Lieutenant Daniel Kaffee when we need him?! He knows GITMO. "I want the truth!"
10
Capt. John R. Nettleton follows the Eddie Gallagher military 'code of honor'.
Cheating, killing, lying.
"Freedom !!!"
"USA ! USA ! USA !"
American taxpayer dollars hard at 'work'.
107
@Socrates
Our evil military, which you so viciously deride, ensured you the liberty to speak even reprehensible words. As the daughter of a WW2 vet who served in the South Pacific, I find your words outrageous, but understandable, as explained by Socrates himself:
“When the debate is over, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
9
@Socrates & @Anne I suspect the truth lies somewhere between your comments.
15
Anne ...the 2020 American military is not your father's American military, which fought a noble war against Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.
Today's American Army leans as much toward imperialism as anything else and is often unaccountable for the way it spends money and its staff misbehavior.
A nation's military has its legitimate uses, but certainly the appalling American atrocities of Vietnam, Iraq, the endless modern military-industrial complex, shameless flag-waving and treasury bankrupting by the radical Republican right are cause for a little revaluation since Victory Day on August 14, 1945.
18
Alcohol+hormones = violence. This is a formula that is in play thousands of times each day around the world. Why is this instance worthy of its own prominent story in The Times?
9
Time to shutter this base.
54
shouldnt they all be working. im surprised the prisoners havent escaped.
military discipline-hilarious
13
Now, after reading the article in its entirety, it’s good to know that R.H.I.P. is alive and well ..... And for those acronymicaly uninclined like me, it’s Rank Has It’s Privel...
8
I spent a tour of duty in La Maddalena, Italy a similarly insular fishbowl duty station. What an eye opener that was. Having also visited GITMO and met CAPT Nettleton I may not surprised by the events.
23
The military really needs to start being viewed for what it is, a giant jobs program with benefits and compensation that far outpaces what those working (and funding the military) in the private sector earn. It's become obvious that they all feel entitled to it judging by the terrible behavior coming out of the organization.
44
Subsitute the words "meth" or "coke" for alcohol and you will get an idea of what a teetotaler thinks about drunks. That the military and federal agencies, indeed, all of the government is filled with drunkards should come as no surprise. The DEA has often been called "Drunk Every Afternoon" while they fight the scourge of addictive drugs - and the most frequently used and addictive drug is alcohol. Guantanamo should be converted into a supermax for sex offenders while alcoholism or excessive drinking should be grounds for dismissal from the service. And quit calling it a disease - cancer is a disease. Alcoholism is an elective activity.
20
Our ship was there in the 60's for inserv certification, it's isolated desolate, and encircled by a barbed wire fence. No place to go, no way off the island except by change of duty.
Think a minimum security federal prison and your close to what its like. One of the worst assignments a sailor could get, shore duty on a little piece of island real estate.
Stuff happens in places like this. My best day there was weighing anchor and heading stateside.
21
Solution: Promote more women to positions of responsibility. They are demonstrably more inclined to lead well.
62
A small point, but I’m surprised that guards weren’t posted outside the base commander’s home, especially at a place like Guantanamo. Anybody here with military experience have any insight into that?
3
@Mark I grew up and Airforce bases. The commanding office never has any guard at his home, job site or while he was out in public.
5
I'm struck by the contrast between the true story (such as it is) and the obituary.
30
Boredom, alcohol, and a captive community. Yah I mean, this will happen occasionally. Rather disappointed the MP's couldn't solve a murder case.
10
That's right. Don't face reality. That solves problems. Just sweep everything under the military insular secretive rug.
15
I am so sorry for the children involved.
31
Is this the same Guantanamo Bay base that Barack Obama promised to close immediately when he campaigned in 2007-2008? Still open?
4
@Commenter
Republican controlled Congress vetoed that action.
31
He tried to. Was going to try the worst and figure out ones that could be repatriated (like drivers and young kids) in their home areas. But the republicans in Congress refused to work with that plan.
11
Yes, the very same Guantanamo, that the gop prevented from getting closed.
12
When I was stationed with the Army at Ft Bragg, NC, you had to attend 4-hour company parties where beer was free, but you were charged for soft drinks and food. When I transferred over to the Coast Guard, I saw similar things. On larger bases you had Enlisted Clubs, Chiefs Clubs and Officer Clubs, all which provided cheap, cheap booze. Almost all disciplinary problems, effecting the lowest seaman to the highest admiral, were alcohol related. Anyone who has been in the military and read this article would be left saying: "And? This is news?" Zero surprises at what happened at Gitmo.
93
Sounds like the captain needs to investigated for possible murder. Why is the Navy so interested in covering it up rather than do the right thing. This is disgusting and disappointing. American culture and the empire are sure in decline and on a steep dive.
29
Excellent reporting by Carol Rosenberg. Gitmo has many dirty secrets.
15
If we're going to have a secretive isolated detention center in a foreign country, we should at least ban alcohol consumption there.
14
Complete breakdown in discipline and leadership. Should have been a thorough investigation, as part of a court marshal. Just a real disgrace.
21
Having just read Dimitry Orlov's recent blogs, this story fits right in to his sense of an empire in decline, referencing late stage Roman history. What is Guantanamo a symbol of? What is "small town America" a symbol of? Hail Nero! hail!
10
The dead victim had four broken ribs and a bruise on his forehead.
The accused, Captain Nettleton, looked uninjured and in charge, according to Commander Ross the day after the incident....and he had also slept with the deceased's wife months before...and has already been caught in multiple lies about the incident.
Not looking great for the philandering Captain Nettleton.
108
Well written and interesting article. I will now continue by making countless speculations about people I do not know and a place a I do not understand, but I will spare the NYT's readership of my scintillating insights.
8
Who is the enemy?
6
I resent the remarks painting all Military Personnel with “ low morals “ and such. I proudly served in the Military, as did my Husband.
The behavior of all persons in a Unit or on A Military Installation flows DIRECTLY down from the Commander, and his/her Staff.
Exactly like all persons on a Presidential Staff reflect upon the person appointing them. PERIOD.
This is excellent Reporting, and I would love to read more. Thank you.
37
This case does nothing to promote trust and confidence in the military. Rather, it’s a perfect example of people — at multiple levels of authority — looking out for themselves and their personal reputations (and pensions).
38
@Jackson American outposts all over the world are unfortunately very similar. God help the family who loses a loved one in such a place--because no one else will. I have been there.
6
In a neighborhood populated by lots of bad actors with low morals and a habitual mendacity, it is not surprising that the underlying crimes (assault and murder) might go unresolved and that the most likely suspect would be tried and convicted for obstruction of justice. That seems relevant to the President's impeachment trial.
20
I’m so glad to see my hard earned tax money used to protect me from enemies, foreign and domestic.
82
A tragic story. But could be a good script for a movie...something like " A Few Good Men".
5
Total collapse of command and order.
Simple people insulated on a island, participating in illegal incarceration and ‘enhanced interrogation’, drinking, (no drugs?), messing around - hardly surprising this mixture would end in disaster.
37
Bizarre but believable when fueled by alcohol and living in a pressurized environment.
45
Sounds like a bad movie.
50
Dear Mr. Zeitz: It IS a bad movie and it R us!
10