Foie Gras is produced by the forced feeding of GEESE in the last few weeks of raising them. Duck Foie Gras is nearly comparable. Considering you are going to harvest virtually ever part of the Duck ( ie Killing and eating it, collecting the down, using the manure ), there is nothing particularly upsetting to me about eating the livers, whether enlarged or not. Foie Gras is not something one eats or should eat a lot; it is just not that healthy. As far as animal cruelty is concerned: the treatment of livestock for beef, chickens, and dairy in the factory-livestock industry is far worse. From the feeding ( cattle eat grass naturally not corn, chickens wander and peck eating everything they find, cows tend to also eat grass, walk slowly and wander everywhere), to the housing ( factory meat is cruelly confined to feed lots, chickens have no room to move about naturally, and cows are not raise free and wandering like the small French and Swiss dairy cattle are. So I am not particularly offended by ducks being force fed like this. Far worse was the tacking down of geese's feet to funnel feed into their crops. No; if you are going to eat ANY meat product, or Fish, you have to be a hypocrite to shut down the duck liver industry. By the way, the regular liver is also quite delicious; the enlargement just gives more liver from the same duck. I will continue to eat it when I can. Foie Gras: use it sparingly and without affectation.
5
Excellent, balanced reporting by John Leland and Desiree Rios. Thanks for shedding light instead of repeating platitudes.
1
This comment isn't about if foie gras is right or wrong.
It's about how politicians go about making decisions.
I'm pretty convinced that they are advised by the shake of a magic-8 ball.
Does anyone (anyone?) stop to think about the domino impact when a decision is made? And then go about asking: who will be negatively impacted? What can we do to help before we pull the rug from under them? Does the decision create more bad than good? If so, let's figure out a better solution.
This is a pretty basic decision making process, right?
Can we please vote for someone who can rub two sticks together? Please? Otherwise, I'm going to have my 15-year old run for NYC Mayor.
8
As a co-owner of two businesses across the street from the "vacant buildings on Main Street in the hamlet of Parksville," I would like to point out that new businesses have also begun to take root in Sullivan county. These include our media production facility and lodge, Beaverkill Studio, as well as our very busy restaurant and music venue, Cabernet Frank's. We turned two vacant buildings into businesses that have reignited the local economy and hold an important place in the community. Had the photographer just pointed their lens to the left, the public could see 2 fully renovated and busy local businesses.
15
I think I'll open a restaurant that serves foie gras right on the Westchester County-New York City boundary.
Additionally, I don't see the city council of New York or the overzealous mayor banning fried chicken or pizza or hot dogs.
10
Is the serving of foie gras really such an earthshaking problem in New York City? Was all the time spent on passing a pointless bill that's going to be tossed out once it hits a courtroom worth it? I can think of greater problems humankind has than a small number of people dining on goose fat.
10
One of the few things I'm glad the NYC council did. It's inhumane and I feel even more strongly after reading the article.
13
It’s an outrage that a world class city outlaws foie gras.
5
The outrage is that it’s eaten
8
We should not consider the difference between the people who eat the foie gras and the people who make the foie gras. We should consider the difference between the people who make the foie gras and those who pay them. The company who sells $28 million a year pays how much to the workers who makes the foie gras?
13
Many years ago, I watched two local politicians debate cap-and-trade restrictions on factory pollution. The Democrat laid out the dangers of acid rain and polluted air. The Republican came back with a familiar retort, “You’re killing jobs, people have children to feed”. The Democrat’s retort was impolitic but dead-accurate: “I’m sorry, but you don’t get to feed your children by poisoning mine.”
Foie gras was banned for a reason. The process for making it is unspeakably cruel. You don’t get to feed your children by doing unspeakably cruel things.
306
@David L. I’m not a fan of cruelty either. But by your standards we also need to change the way the vast majority of all animal products are produced. Foie gras requires very brief interventions in how the animals eat: 3 weeks, 10 seconds, 3 times a day. That’s less than 15 total minutes of force-feeding. And even then, ducks do not have nerve endings in their throats the way humans do. The whole situation is not as cut and dry as you might initially think.
47
I think we should change the way the vast majority of animal “products” are produced, absolutely. This step toward recognizing the abject suffering of other living beings under human care is good, as any step is, but certainly such a small one should not overshadow the horrifically extensive problem.
18
@David L. There is no rational comparison between air pollution, which affects everybody, and Foie Gras. With Foie Gras, you have the option of not eating it. With air pollution, you do NOT have the option of not breathing!
32
Banning foie gras, like banning fur, is a performative act that is morally incoherent.
None of these legislators have the guts or moral consistency to ban factory farming, meat, leather, wine filtered with isinglass, or any of the other animal products that are just as optional for human life and flourishing as foie gras.
Foie gras and fur have affluent consumers and a relatively small pool of sellers and producers - banning these items is a safe political bet. But it’s such a cowardly one.
235
@Paul Agreed, but it's better than nothing.
16
@Paul Gotta start somewhere.
Some animals will be spared from incredible cruelty by the ban. Lots more progress needs to be made, but may as well celebrate a victory when it happens.
26
"Foie gras and fur have affluent consumers ..."
Right. And they can afford to pay to have those products smuggled in from other states or countries.
"But it’s such a cowardly one."
More realistically, the bans encourage smuggling, which results in increased law enforcement costs. A TAX would have been a much smarter "solution", although taxes also encourage smuggling:
"The New York State Department of Taxation and Finance and the Westchester County District Attorney’s Office today announced [that a defendant] pleaded guilty to attempting to smuggle untaxed liquor into New York State for resale."
Liquor Smuggler Agrees to Forfeit Alcohol and Vehicle After Guilty Plea
New York State Department of Taxation and Finance
August 15, 2019
Source: tax.ny.gov web site.
2
The story aside here, I have to take issue with the child laborer on the cover story. This kid can't be of age to work. Is anyone shocked by this?
9
Would you condone continuation of something that was cruelly abusive to humans if it supported some people's livelihood? Only by objectifying these creatures as inanimate "things" can this practice be considered permissible.
7
@Marie B. Don’t step on ants, kill rats or cockroaches right?
3
The City Council should be banned. Vote them out! Vote panderers! They will cater to any small group that cries.
2
They must create hidden back rooms like in the days of prohibition.
Let the people have their jobs for heaven’s sake! Not everyone is able to get a job as easy as others.
3
Wow. Has anyone seen the inside of a meat packing plant? I have and it's not pretty. Why special treatment for the ducks and not cattle? And why is the government telling us what to eat? Isn't this a free country? As someone who lives (and did not vote for) Carolina Rivera's Manhattan district, I am baffled with her smugness to not even visit the farms before proposing this ban. Who is she to sit on her Manhattan throne and pass judgement on the 400 farmers. Let me tell you, her district is full of crime, homelessness, drugs - we could use her help right here, but it usually falls on deaf ears as she tries to positon herself on newsworthy items to further her career.
8
It's the cruelty. The lives of these animals are torture. All so a few rich people can eat foie gras. It's abhorrent
5
Once we Americans were morally judgmental about sex and indifferent to choices about food. Now we are indifferent to sex & judgmental about food. Personally, I’m in favor of indifference to both, and here’s a nice piece illustrating various specific moral complications of Orthorexia & the underlying inanity of attempting to maintain moral purity in this messy world.
6
The sheer absurdity of this law is that it will be easily broken or sidestepped. You want foie gras go to Jersey, Ct. or have a private chef prepare it for you and your friend (you’ll be the toast of the party). If you can afford the $300 steak, then this is not the thing to stop you from enjoying this dish. The greater exclusivity of it will make it all the more appealing.
I can picture it now, some guy in a long overcoat comes over to you in some fancy Manhattan eatery and whispers “hey buddy, wanna buy some duck liver...”
It’s time for the municipal government to worry about the physical things that surround us, not engage in social engineering.
7
Another example of elected officials not taking the time to make informed decisions, not thinking things through and making decisions based on emotions born of a lack of knowledge and insight
7
Selling ducks is still legal so build a business around it in a way that is NOT sadistic to the animals .
What kind of human thinks that just because it can't read or do math means it's OK to torture ?
How would everyone feel if it were a dog or cat being subjected to this process ?
It is long past time for all humans to get a soul . . .
6
Why a sob story about this particular small set of people whose jobs are jeopardized by good legislation? So many millions of people are out of work because of technology, changing tastes outsourcing, and downsizing. That's life. Making a living without being cruel to animals, polluting the planet and exploiting other human beings is the future. This piece bemoans the loss of a past that is better of discarded. It's sad to see it in the NYT which should be more forward thinking and humane to both humans and animals.
9
I read every word of this article and the part that I can't reconcile is Ms. Leon, who arrived here in 1997, and like most of the people interviewed, speaks little English and required an interpreter. I'm willing to bet most readers didn't even pause at that. Really? 23 years here and she can't speak English? I'm all for legal immigration, but I'm also for assimilation. Before you crucify me with negative comments, know that I moved to Puglia, in Southern Italy, to a small and remote village with my husband in 1978. We lived there 3 years. Within 6 months, we were speaking passible Italian and fluently when we left. We managed that with an Italian-English dictionary and patient neighbors who helped us and corrected our grammar. So I know from personal experience that it is possible to learn the foreign language of the country you are living in. It just takes the will to do it.
8
Food and fur bans short of those involving engangered species or over exploited stocks, are beyond the reasonable scope of government's charter. Obviously no thinking or moral person wishes cruelty or a painful death on living creatures, but the fact remains that animals always have been and will continue to be raised for human consumption and that means animals must be kept and slaughtered. The injection of politics into this kind of issue is foolishly divisive and unnecessary.
10
This ban is a completely random “nanny state” law. Is this any worse than a turkey bred to become so top heavy it can’t actually stand? Or cutting off chicken beaks? Or boiling a live lobster while it screams? Feeding cows with grains that they would never naturally eat?
From the beginning of time humans have treated animals to make them more savory. Instead of demonizing one practice that is a lifeline for a small farming community in our state, why can’t city council do something that is actually important? Say banning the widespread use of antibiotics? Banning eggs and dairy or meat treated unnecessarily with antibiotics would actually help stop a practice that is arguably harming all of us.
15
Telling you what foods you can & can't eat is a prelude of fascism.
How about banning other extreme luxury items, designer haute couture clothes, cars that cost more than $75,000 built for high speeds that are illegal, but if it's only a question of design, put low-speed VW engines in them, or deem tourist packages that cost over $1000 as wasteful.
Trump would love to force the public into that as much as the Democrats, because he could designate a small group of his friends as exempt from the law.
We have no politicians who look at longterm (18 months) results nor at collateral damage, or unexpected possibilities.
6
We progress as a species when we decide we can survive without a “delicacy” that involves torturing other sentient beings. As a vegan, I hope that one day our species as a whole realizes the barbarism of eating non-human animal flesh (and their secretions), both for our health and the survival of the planet. People once made a living guarding and managing slaves, but that didn’t stop us from declaring this industry a moral outrage and banning it. Many industries disappear as we evolve as a society and widen our “circle of compassion,” as Schweitzer noted, to include other species. We still need to eat and food needs to be grown - hopefully organically, in the soil.
8
So long as NYC Council has its priorities straight.
Old women are being murdered by undocumented immigrants, pedestrians and bikers killed by speeding cars, water mains are exploding due to lack of maintenance, shootings, stabbing and robberies are spinning out of control, hate crimes are rampant but priority No. 1 is banning foie gras!
14
Interestingly, no photo shows the incredible suffering of the animals.
7
More of a comment to the author than one to be published. My instinct is to ban foie gras and my position remains the same but I do appreciate knowing the ramifications as it's an important part of the story. Thanks for your reporting. Dixy being helped across the border by a coyote - would have been curious to hear more...
3
If our economy so good.. well someone who has been here since 1997 should speak english by now and let this great country help them go forward. They may suffer from this ban but the ban is not the problem.Why do we never ever hear that these immigrants get trapped becasue they do noyspeak English Speak english! Then you have much more of chance to make your own way Empower these folks!
5
I hope those who want the ban realize that the ducks are going to be slaughtered and eaten, foie gras or not. If any of the hypocrites behind the ban want to mandate vegetarianism let’s hear it.
9
Any one objecting to the ban of foie gras certainly deserves to have an oversized feeding tube shoved down heir throat.
7
If this is how you make your living you deserve to lose everything. Next up factory farming please.
3
Talk about misplaced sympathies and priorities of the coastal elites and another absurd example of the wokeness run amok.
5
So many of the comments of this thread and the basis for this ban are so silly and disconnected from reality. I cannot emphasize enough, speaking of the small local farms that surround my village in southwestern France, the ducks and geese do not at all suffer.
As a few informed commentators have noted, if you visit these farms, especially the smaller ones, you can see the ducks and geese line up themselves impatiently waiting to be fed. There also seems to be a lot of misplaced and misinformed anthropomorphism. I.e. their anatomies and digestive tracts are not that of humans and the process exploited parallels their natural tendency to gain weight before the winter. It is true that for three weeks, they are fattened up before being killed. Is it being suggested that, poultry farmers should be producing scrawny and thin and muscular ducks and geese for consumption. I have a memory of the enormous size of turkeys sold in the US at Thanksgiving time. I’m not sure that a scrawny and athletic turkey would do well on a Thanksgiving dinner table in the United States. And this concern is moreover being expressed by people coming from a country where the majority of its citizens are themselves obese.
It seems that there is somehow a hidden agenda of many of these posters that people should simply no longer eat meat at all. If that is the case, they should simply say so and perhaps ban consumption of all animal products in New York City.
14
Morality as defined by politicians in a city council.
7
When pet birds won’t eat they are often gavaged. That means they are forced to eat by means of a metal tube, briefly placed into their throat and food syringed into their crop. This is done routinely in anorexic birds. NYC has deemed a useful and painless medical procedure cruel. While certainly anything done to excess can be dangerous, feeding ducks this way is not inherently abusive. Veal calves are prevented from exercise and kept anemic. Should veal be a prohibited food? When fish are caught by hook or net they slowly and painfully suffocate before dying. The conditions of factory beef farms, filthy and congested, and large dairy farms, milk production facilities for post parturient cows, are as far from bucolic fields of ruminating Holsteins as imaginable. Raising or harvesting animals for food is a dirty and often barely moral business. Why this small group of duck farmers is chosen to make a point is arbitrary and unnecessary.
5
Second and third order consequences. Something progressive legislators don't do very well. Witness Obamacare. Harry Reid's judges. Proposals to confiscate the money invested in your 401K's and pension plans. And making impeachment the new normal It'll work just as well against you as for you.
5
Any animal we eat must be slaughtered first. A few weeks of gavage is only making the ducks' lives marginally worse I would imagine. Plus, they get to move around at least a little, which is better than most factory-farmed animals. The death of a foie gras duck is preferable to the death of a kosher or halal slaughtered animal.
3
I’ll tell you what’s barbaric; charging $375 for a Porterhouse steak.
Seriously though, it’s tough to discern that this is anything but capricious and arbitrary. Farmed tilapia die of asphyxiation before it arrives at the dinner table; NYC consumes 1,000-times more veal than foie gras, but somehow it’s considered humane to kill millions of baby cows; and all of this ignores the city’s systemic eradication effort that rains mental and physical abuse upon our rat and pigeon population.
Its OK to poison the “bad” animals but it’s inhumane to allow the “good” ones suffer? This whole conversation is silly. It’s no wonder we have such a huge homelessness problem; we’re so focused on the irrelevant that we can’t concentrate meaningful progress on things that truly matter.
8
Americans eat way more chicken than fois gras. so I hope those of you that think banning fois gras because of cruelty would also support a chicken ban. Those birds suffer terribly to be on your dinner plate at such a cheap price and I think the cruelty argument would have a bigger impact if directed there.
6
I am opposed to censorship. I am also opposed to government officials telling the citizens who pay their salary what they can eat.
This foie gras ban is yet another smokescreen for do-nothing politicians to hide their failures. Have these council people actually taken a long hard look at New York City under Mayor DeBlasio?
We visit three or four times a year for a week at a time. We stay with friends in their Manhattan apartment. We eat in restaurants, go to the theater, and see new exhibits in museums. We walk, ride the subway, and take cabs.
Manhattan has never been dirtier. The trash bins overflow. Litter flies about everywhere. On streets, leaves from autumns years ago lay in the channel between the curb and the asphalt. The subway is a miserable mess. The traffic is a nightmare. Empty storefronts abound.
New York was once “the city that never sleeps.” It is now the city that no longer functions.
Meanwhile, DeBlasio and some members of the council worry more about ducks and geese than people. Additionally, how many of these hypocrites have put down their steak knives?
I hope that when the ban goes into effect, restaurants ignore it. I hope restauranteurs raise money to challenge this laughable law, a law generated from ignorance and approved as a result of the arrogance of lazy politicians.
The Mommy State, indeed.
9
@Carmela Sanford
"Manhattan has never been dirtier."
Clearly you missed the 70's in NYC.
5
@Carmela Sanford
Maybe stay home next time. You only contribute to the problems here; overflowing garbage, crowded trains and heavy traffic. Us New York City folk can’t get around our own town because of you pesky tourists.
But for the record, I am against this foie gras ban...
1
@John E.
Wow. Hardly a tourist. More a lovely visitor who never litters, unlike some residents. I've probably seen more of the borough than you have. I've been coming here for thirty years, and, ta-da, my husband was born In Manhattan. You blithely seem to be willing to ignore how much money we spend in Manhattan in terms of getting around, dining out, theater tickets, museum admissions, and other sundries and food purchases. Without us "tourists," the borough of Manhattan would be bankrupt.
6
We can give the ducks and the workers a better life by providing an alternate industry.
2
@Mary Bullock ask Senator Warren about retraining health insurance workers. Maybe like them, they can work in the auto insurance industry!
Wow. I would like to look at the numbers on this operation.
According to the article, one of these farms sells $28 million in food gras per year, but must rely on underpaid illegal immigrants workers.
Just, wow.
5
I thought the same thing. This doesn't sound, on its face, like a small family farm on the verge of bankruptcy. And the employee interviewed works shifts between 6am and 1am - is it truly that much of a hardship to split the workload? What's inhumane is the treatment of the employees.
3
If you want to talk about cruelty to animals, spend a month or two in a NYCHA apartment. I wish the mayor cared as much about the tenants as he does about upstate ducks.
6
And no one points a finger toward the restaurant(s) or the people who spend that kind of money on a meal. Farmers and immigrants working to provide that kind of opulence is obscene.
1
Ah, the purity of the progressive dream. Forward, toward perfection, never mind the wreckage on the road-side. Someone else's problem...
7
The progressive agenda.
The backlash from the wealthy Democratic donors.
Does this mean no foie gras at on the jets at Teterboro?
Say it ain't so DeBlasio.
5
Doesn’t the mayor have more pressing problems to address in NYC? No wonder his presidential bid went NOWHERE!
5
Bringing ethics discussion into economic considerations—what a novel idea!
For those of you who are so high and mighty and support this ban, get out of the city and go visit Sullivan County and see how this affect hundreds of hard working people who are struggling to make ends meet.
It’s shameful that us city folk don’t stop and think about our fellow New Yorkers upstate...
4
With all due respect too Nicholas Kristoff, the people who work in this industry are making bad choices. They should quit, shut down the farms, go back to school, get a graduate degree in computer science, move to Manhattan, and get a job at Amazon, whoops, no, Google. There, problem solved.
2
@Paulie love the tongue in cheek!
1
I have no interest at all in eating foie gras but am 100% against the virtue signaling that underscores this ban, coupled with the typical liberal cowardice that refuses to visit the farms and talk with the workers or other members of the farm community. City people should get out of the way of country people. Country people don’t demand that city people be locked up for myriad stupidities such as carrying miniature dogs around as if they were babies, and other anthropomorphic behaviors, to keep it focused on odd behaviors with animals. All the country people ask is the same. If you don’t want to eat duck liver, don’t eat it. I don’t eat it. But I sure like the rest of the duck, and remember when LI was full of duck farms.
6
Ah, NY's politicans doing nothing important, yet again. Such an impact. I can't wait until President Trump aims his sights on NY and the other rogue states.
Funny, my main thought was how many of these so called immigrants are actually legal and traceable. Rent free? Sounds nice. These farms control two medical facilities? So no records there, either. Oh wait, licenses for everyone! AAAAND free healthcare for the children.
So the only ones getting stuffed are the geese, NY and American tax payers? Figures
1
Pretty simple issue, peeps. Are you OK with torturing animals so you can "enjoy" eating them and their by-products (at the lowest possible price)?
Yes? - time to examine your ethics.
No? - time to become a vegan, since our industrial meat-raising industry is cruelty from start to finish.
4
A good example of a failing society. No good solutions for anyone.
What hypocrisy. The entire animal farm production industry is cruel. Singling out ducks for special compassion, over humans -- the livelihoods of brown immigrants, no less -- is doubly hypocritical. A perfect example of class warfare (the fois gras isnt particularly expensive, but the perception is that only the undeserving rich eat it), but the class hardest hit are the immigrant people of color who liberals are supposed to care so much about. Like banning plastic straws that go to landfills, not water systems, this is indeed overreach and virtue signaling (as is banning paper bags along with plastic). We upstate consumers will be happy to pick up the slack to help the farms survive. Maybe the Ag Dept should step in and save the farms by putting duck liver on school lunch menus. A nutritious food indeed, loaded with iron, copper, B vitamins, protien, and of course healthy fat.
4
@PL, your comment does beg the question - is supporting businesses that keep “brown” people in menial labor in harsh (relative to an office at least) conditions with no programs to help them or their children rise up out of poverty - the way we want to go with this - and the only option available?
Perhaps the State can help with developing better small businesses, connecting well-funded entrepreneurs with these areas to develop alternative businesses, supporting childcare efforts, schools, training in language and computer skills which would actually help these “brown” immigrants.
One does wonder, why stuffing ducks seems to be the only present and future for these “brown immigrants.”
If it were our children who stuffed ducks for a living, would we be so sure that the only option is keeping these farms producing foie gras - perhaps we would think of at least one better option and, maybe, even find investors and business innovators to invest their ideas, time, and money in this area - rather than just eating the foie gras.
3
@Other -- The current group of immigrant children arent the first to have been subjected to child labor (and their entire families are employed). I would venture to say that their working conditions are rather better than those of the European kids who worked in NYC factories a century ago. But this is a separate issue. The point is that two family farms in rural New York State are possibly going out of business because of a misguided policy of elites in NYC who put animals above people. The article points out the invisible group that has been harmed by certain politicians who see only the war on the rich, overlooking the collateral damage they've done to a vulnerable group of people.
2
Do not underestimate writing [ Journalism] repeatedly about these topics :
on the long run production and consumption patterns/restraints will change for the better [ mutually consciousnesses]...
A fine example Upton Sinclair’s Jungle [ slaughterhouses] and legislation changing!
Is it actually constitutional for a politician inn the city to tell someone what they can or cannot et when the product is regulated for safety by the Federal FDA and the state dept of Agriculture.
If they can do this then they would be able to tell people thy cannot best beef or chicken.
No under people are leaving the city as these politicians have lost all sense of reason.
3
The City council passed the ban without bothering to see the farm for themselves. THAT is why this is meaningless political posturing. Besides, restaurants Will continue serving it after the ban. It just won’t be on the menu.
3
I may be biased as an American expat living in France - but having visited foie gras-producing duck farms, I must agree that the animal treatment is no worse than much of that involved in raising animals for consumption, and in fact is often more humane, focusing on free-range conditions, avoiding overcrowding, and using anxiety-reducing procedures ... I see no particular justification on banning this and not other carnivore-serving farming. Also - given the increasing tariffs put on French imports, the imported product is likely to become completely inaccessible, which would have boosted these farms' business ...
4
“he could remember when Sullivan County supported more than 200 dairy farms; now it is down below 20, he said.”
Okay, I’m trying to understand this. So, now that dairy farming has been reduced significantly, the one and only, out of all possible options, replacement for industry in this area is foie gras. Of all the brilliant minds and billions of dollars in “dry powder” (investor money) in the private equity, venture capital, and banking industries, not one analyst, not one principal, not one SVP or entrepreneur can come up with an alternative industry for this area?
Not one idea - not one dollar - not one hour of highly educated brain power can be sacrificed from the 10x return goal on an investment necessary for Finance to spend time on this “actually help a local community and its people” effort.
Rather than eating the foie gras, why don’t those brilliant (“we make all jobs, so the middle class should grovel at our feet) innovators put down their forks and actually help out (without mandating buildings with their last names emblazoned on them or self-congratulatory celebrations at Cipriani’s).
To say that poor immigrants must continue to stuff ducks so that the ultra wealthy masters of “business innovation” can eat a quarter-sized bit of goo (I actually like foie gras, but stopped eating it years ago, because essentially it’s overpriced goo, aside from the duck) is ludicrous.
Ask finance why stuffing a duck is what they consider the best business option here.
5
In response to Foodie: The market is not always a proper judge of moral issues. For instance the market for elephant ivory is big in China. Does the market justify the killing of every elephant? Or take the market's demand for slaves? 350 years worth of demand. Was that justifiable? The market is useful when it is in the interests of preserving an equilibrium among as many species as possible.
This one small step to insure the well being of a particular animal warrants regulation. Of course it's only a small step and factory farms should be next. And yes the production of almond groves will also need regulation. And the lives of those people working in these industries should also be protected. We are humans. We are capable, I hope, of using our intelligence to foster, to the best of our ability, an economic equilibrium that favors all living things in the long term, rather than fostering the self interest of a limited view.
It's a goal worthy of humans.
2
It's true that that this ban is a drop in the ocean of legalized animal cruelty but any reduction in needless suffering and cruelty is better than none at all and maybe this will be a first step which will lead to other measures that limit or abolish the pain and suffering we humans inflict on animals just because we can.
1
I don't care about the force-feeding of ducks, but I am outraged that a child is working to supplement his family's inadequate income. The picture of a child holding a duck while wearing a face mask breaks my heart.
The majority of these comments are against animal cruelty, not for the workers. No wonder what passes for a left in the United States cannot win popular support.
8
@landless I'm sorry you don't see the connection between animal cruelty and cruelty to humans. Neither is acceptable, as far as I'm concerned.
3
The unemployment rate is at a decades low. With a little bit of transition assistance the workers can find other jobs. Duck processing is not such a specialty occupation that it's unemployment for life for these workers. Similarly for the farm owners.
6
They tried this in Chicago a few years ago. To make a long dark-comedy story short, it didn't work and made the city council look even more foolish in citizens' eyes than usual. I predict the same thing for New York.
5
Retrain the workers! Retrain them to work with sustainable energy sources, with sustainable agriculture. The delay before the ban goes into effect is to give workers time to be retrained.
8
All animals including humans have a few things in common: they all want to live they ,don’t want to die ,they experience fear,they can feel pain they, experience anxiety and they want to be free.
It’s amazing how so many people readily accept the horrific things that happened to animals in factory farming and fur farms and forced feeding facilities yet they would be up in arms if those same things happened to their dog or cat .the same economic excuses and the “right” of human choice were used to justify slave are being used to justify animal cruelty.
It’s been since the beginning of time that humanity has experienced the effects of compartmentalization, selfishness and rationalization a bad mix that helps or allows the continuation of a form of social schizophrenia where we murder and bludgeon some animals while we take great pains to protect others by them like comfortable heated beds and thousands of dollars at the veterinarians office and groomers it’s time to get help and start healing society’s mental illness the change needs to come from a change of our perceptions of animals as sentient beings and not commodities
10
As many commentators noted, animals are treated far worse at factory farms. We all have a moral responsibility to push to end what is essentially the torture of animals at these factory farms. But that doesn’t mean that we should not also work for incremental change such as this, ending a practice where ducks are force fed with a tube so diners can enjoy duck livers deformed by cirrhosis. We can’t get everything changed for the better, but that doesn’t mean we should do nothing. It’s not hypocritical to understand that doing something is better than doing nothing.
9
This is so old news. The foie gras ban has come and gone a few times now. Chefs and foie gras producers will fight and win like they have done in the past. Somebody should force these people to a foie gras production facility. There is no harm done to animals. And wait - is duck now going to become illegal too?
Oh, we can go to the zoo to see them?
5
@Benni
Good comment. I get the impression that feel good New Yorkers who have never visited a farm but perhaps saw some documentary with an agenda, clearly have no idea how foie gras is produced, though I can confirm for the record that on the small farms that supply our family and village in the South of France, the ducks and geese certainly do not suffer and actually ask to be received corn.
I also do not understand though how it is that they have succeeded in making an issue about the clearly small sector of ducks and geese production in upstate New York and yet have no problems eating meat and poultry originating from a US meat industry supply chain that has led the way worldwide of mass cruelty to animals and which supplies most restaurants and supermarkets in New York.
Clearly if one follows their logic, all meat and poultry should be banned in New York except perhaps foie gras
15
I find the New York City Councilpersons complete non-understanding (I'm trying to be diplomatic.) of agricultural processes and importance of agriculture to the economy of New York State typical of most legislators in urban areas.
It's time the NYC Councilpersons, NYS legislators (representing urban districts as well as the U. S. Representatives representing urban districts traveled throughout the state staying with (as in farmstays) and talking with farmers, workers in agricultural processing businesses to better understand the role agriculture plays in their well being.
6
Foie Gras, never heard of it. The issue is cruel behavoir to animals. Illegal imigration is seperate issue. Also is poverty in Sullivan county. The debate is whether force feeding ducks in the way described is cruel. If i were force fed in the manner described, yes it would be cruel. Frankly anyone in disagreement why not shove a feeding tube down their throat and then force feed. Even the most glutinous person could not tolerate such.
6
So because lousy jobs created for Latinos because Americans who aren't recent immigrant arrivals don't care to do them at the wages offered . . . results in a product that's unimaginably cruel and that only folks with lots of disposable income can realistically afford . . .
are you woke enough lately? Those are the same arguments used against Apple's employment practices in China, or the exploitation of those lowest on the economic totem pole anywhere and everywhere.
nothing changes because it's immigrants from south of the border. or maybe we should invite hundreds more to produce more foie gras, driving down the price perhaps making it more affordable, perhaps eventually exporting it around the world?
I don't think the ducks are crazy about the idea. It's not always about the jobs now is it?
7
I can’t imagine trying to prioritize the economy over complete cruelty to animals. There is nothing humane about forcing a tube down an animal’s throat 3 times a day. That is unnatural and cruel
13
The problem started with reports that the French had the ducks with their mouths nailed open and immobile under a feeding tube all their life. Etc.
1
Few things irritate me so much as people telling me what I can and cannot eat; perhaps the one thing worse is when the government does that.
Foie Gras is delicious, one of my very favorite foods (can’t afford to eat it very often however). I’m guessing few of those in favor of the ban have ever tasted it.
Cruelty? We kill almost everything before we eat it (oysters being an obvious exception). And its not like the rest of the duck is wasted (duck breast, duck leg also delicious). Force feeding rates fairly low on the cruelty scale in my opinion, particularly when the ducks show no evidence of suffering.
11
@Bill White I think you should be able to eat anything you want as long as it doesn’t affect another being as long as it doesn’t hurt or harm anyone else -like the animal
2
So the City Council grandstands, banning anything it finds morally offensive, without regard to the business environment or to, really, logic. The ducks whose livers were enhanced in order to produce foie gras, are still destined to be killed, cooked and served in whole as an edible meal, which somehow is still not an ethical dilemma. Or, more likely, the foie gras ban is one step in a greater agenda working toward making vegan food the only consumable in NYC. That 'achievement' will kill off the world-renowned restaurant industry. The state legislature has knee-capped the real estate industry with its poor legislation. Amazon won't be bringing anywhere near 25,000 jobs to NYC. Cuomo is moving toward closing Indian Point, with no replacement for the power it generates. So you won't even have to metaphorically turn out the lights when everyone leaves.
11
This is disgusting cruelty
12
Murder is murder.
Instead of a menu listing broccoli and beef let it be true and read, murdered cow with broccoli ( to make you think you got your veggies and therefore are virtuous).
Let's face it.
Human beings are destroying our planet.
If we disappeared tomorrow, things would be infinitely better.
13
@Simon Sez Humans are a rather depicable species. The overpopulation of our species is destroying the planet. In the meantime, billions of animals are slaughtered/murdered every year to feed these horrific humans. It is just so heart-breaking and yet, humans are not protesting in front of these barbaric slaughterhouses. So sad.
9
I love when people justify cruelty (to humans or other animals) because it makes money for someone. You know, slavery benefitted people too.
22
The article presents an apples vs. oranges argument: ethics vs. local economy. No one disputes the value that foie gras brings to this farming community and immigrant labor. The issue is animal cruelty.
Of course any animal will be ill from a grossly enlarged liver. Force feeding the animal for that express purpose, in order to harvest it's organ and eat it on a cracker, also makes it ghoulish.
10
@David
and throwing live crabs and lobsters into boiling water isn't ghoulish ?
13
@David : cattle and most other animals are ALSO fattened up for slaughter.
Cattle are fed corn -- an unnatural and unhealthy diet for a ruminant -- in order to make them put on weight fast. Also makes the meat more tender. Why is that OK?
The reality is we are omnivores and we eat animals.
I have 3 pet birds. Birds do not swallow nor "gag" the way humans do. Lavage done properly is not necessarily cruel.
10
@Concerned Citizen And I do not eat beef precisely for that reason, along with lamb or pork. Nor do I eat lobster (which is overharvested). I do eat free-range chicken and turkey. I find it really odd as to how someone can actually DEFEND stuffing a live goose to fatten its liver. Weird.
2
I recently signed up for livestock butcher shares in the northeast region. I am now more painfully aware than ever of my local animals that get raised and ultimately killed so I can eat them. I'm no duck psychologist, but my sympathy here goes to the workers who need these jobs. Let's put foie gras back on the plate please.
16
"'This,” he added, “is not where we should be shedding a tear.'"
if we shouldn't be shedding a tear, then what motivated the city council to ban its sale?
this seems like an easy bill to pass politicaly ... it's not like this legislation is helping geese.
1
Just another example of our mayor being blind and clueless and not seeing the big picture.
I’m curious why Councilwoman Rivera cares more about ducks than human beings? There is a large community, predominantly made up of immigrants from Central America and Mexico who will suffer financially and perhaps be deported because of this law.
Not to mention that the American Veterinary Medical Association takes a neutral position as far as this being a cruel process.
What about human beings? Immigrants? People just getting by on minimum wage. Isn’t this what the Democratic Party is all about?
I’m surprised the councilwoman is turning her back on people. In this case, fellow latinas and Latinos.
14
Are you implying that because Councilwoman Rivera is Latina her decision-making should, therefore, be rooted in what you perceive to be the needs of "fellow Latinos"? If so, your logic smacks of either entitlement or ignorance.
2
Oh the irony of poor Latinx families working to provide something so exotic, expensive and opulent that they will never be consumers.
Just like those who gave their working lives to Trump golf courses.
5
Would you condone continuation of something that was cruelly abusive to humans if it supported some people's livelihood? Only by objectifying these creatures as inanimate "things" can this practice be considered permissible.
8
Force-feeding ducks, flying live horses to Japan so they can be slaughtered within hours so glutinous human can feast on raw, fresh, horse meat, live frogs presented with their legs cut off so humans can eat their still beating heart, industrial, factory farming...the list goes on and on. The whole business is sickening. All so greedy, glutinous humans can eat more food in a 30 minute meal that will soon be forgotten. There are so many options that don’t involve exploiting, abusing, and subjecting animals to a life of misery, cruelty, and vileness. Get over yourselves humans and make ethical choices..
15
I can't read the article. Animal torture/abuse is just too heartbreaking. I don't care about the human workers -- they must be psychopaths -- torturing and murdering animals. If they are illegal they should go back where they came from.
8
I couldn’t read it either. ( Neither that one about the Secret Service agent who killed a dog. What’s wrong with people? )
Any form of animal abuse makes me sick.
My paisanos could find another job, easily.
Free the ducks.
5
So the owner of Hudson Valley Foie Gras, on his yearly revenues of $28 million, has to rely on virtual slave labor and potentially undocumented workers, it appears...
https://www.hudsonvalleyfoiegras.com/index.php/michael-aeyal-ginor
11
@Sue O : $30K or more a year, plus a free house....that's actually a pretty OK deal.
However, illegal is illegal and all such illegals MUST be deported ASAP.
5
@Concerned Citizen
nice justification there -- would you, or anyone you know work for that kind of money, in those conditions, if it's such a pretty OK deal? And how about seriously penalizing those who hire the so-called 'illegals' ??
3
State Senator Metzger needs to go. Vote her out.
2
In fairness, the state should offer some help to people who are economically hurt by the ban, and those of us who want animal cruelty to end should be willing to support that help.
6
Thank you!!! Many of the immigrants face unsafe conditions in their native countries and have little choice over where to go. I don’t support animal cruelty, but something has to be done for these workers.
1
There is a simple explanation for the politics of this matter: It is much easier for a mayor who has sold out on housing issues and public transportation to concentrate on ducks than on people.
13
@RSinger that’s not true this mayor has helped new Yorkers in their housing predicaments and safety more than any other mayor
1
The epic disparity between upstate NY and NYC has to be seen in person to be understood. Rural poverty almost everywhere, some of this is completely hidden by forests and hills. Decaying small towns that are almost ghost towns. Property taxes are often bizarrely high, so I dont know how that works in areas succumbed to poverty. Not a good scenario for anyone.
9
“Se gaver”: eating gluttonously, binge eating, stuffing oneself. There is something ironic in this controversy in the United States, whose citizens in some ways offer parallels with the ducks and geese used to make foi gras.
An irony nevertheless no doubt lost on a people largely disconnected from the reality of their food supply, who believe that meat is something that naturally comes to them in small cellophane-wrapped packages.
Like the geese and ducks on our small farms who voluntarily rush to receive the corn at feeding time, the behavior of Americans and their relationship to food is similar.
Americans themselves who have transformed the world by its industrial food practices have become a people who are pathologically obese and those countries that have adopted American eating practices with their fast food and soda have started to experience the same trend. And just like the geese and ducks on our farms, the Americans do not appear to mind or suffer from their overeating or their practice of stuffing themselves.
11
I dont think Tom realizes that fast cheap fatty foods are making everyone on the planet large. South America is just one place where obesity is currently raging because of cheap fatty foods and sugary drinks available to the populace. Also many places in Asia, most certainly Japan. Tom you might want to leave France more?
4
Animals have both intelligence and emotion.
As I was driving out to work on the farm one morning, there was a dead mallard drake on the road, hit by a vehicle.
Its mate was sitting next to the corpse, in the road.
When I drove back to town that evening, the hen was still sitting by its mate, mourning.
People don't realize that animals DO THINK and HAVE FEELINGS. They also remember things...it's not all instinct. They TEACH their young.
Raising ducks for foie gras is a disgusting and cruel practice.
The workers are probably illegal anyway.
15
@Raz Animals are just like humans -- sentient beings . The workers need to go back where they came from or find another line of work. Since they torture and kill animals I have no sympathy for them.
6
You’re arguing that animals should not be maltreated because they have feelings, but that it’s fine to maltreat people of color because they’re probably “illegal” anyway?
So much empathy for animals and none for your fellow humans.
13
@Sarah I have no empathy for the humans who are torturers/murderers. My heart breaks for the ducks and all animals who are subjected to this abuse.
7
Anyone notice the article notes the workers are undocumented, and the one couple makes around $4k a month. And that they send money back to family in central America, and in the photos their are children whom I assume were born after the family arrived. Makes you wonder why ICE hasn't visited those farms. And will they now?
8
Re the previous note from California,I hope they don't. Oh, have you read "charlottes Web" recently. "some pig" that wilbur. go visit the manure filled lagoons on pig farms. I love foie gras and I live in NJ. these council people are like monkeys with their hands over their eyes so they don't recognize that many if not all these workers left conditions far worse than those faced by ducks. i hope this rule or law or whatever is rescinded and the brain deprived members who supported it are thrown out of office.
3
@Beth Grant-DeRoos Since they torture and murder animals they should be deported or perhaps imprisoned for animal cruelty.
4
It's not just the foie gras ban putting these communities in a difficult situation—New York State also prohibits them from mugging people, kidnapping and ransoming, scamming seniors, and lots of other things.
Oh, the oppression.
8
If the only way these farms can stay in business is by exploiting their labor then they didn't have a viable business to begin with.
13
Whenever the government takes steps to protect animals from abusive practices, you can always count on people who otherwise couldn’t care less about low-wage workers to start fretting about lost jobs. The article presents a false dichotomy. In reality, we don’t have to choose between animal cruelty and unemployment. We could decide, as a society, to create good jobs and stop cruelty to animals at the same time. I hope some day we will.
20
"... to create good jobs ..."
How do you propose doing that?
"I hope some day we will."
"Hope" is not a solution.
4
Sorry, can’t feel bad for the farmers who make a living by exploiting animals and immigrant workers.
16
What's next, a ban on veal?
5
@MIKEinNYC fingers crossed we won’t have to ban it , as dairy sales decline, veal (the male calf born into a sad life that will end in weeks so that it’s mother can produce milk) will be less and less available until it’s gone entirely along with dairy.
5
Anyone who thinks its acceptable to stick a funnel down the throat of a bird to force feed them feed that makes their liver fat so some ignorant human can feast on the delicacy, needs to have their head examined.
Anyone who thinks its acceptable to breed cows so they are constantly pregnant and then once they give birth the calf is removed so the milk can be sold to humans, while the calves are fed man made formula, with the females raised to be breeding stock and the males raised for a few months until they become veal to be eaten by humans, needs to have their head examined.
Same with pigs where females are constantly bred. And baby pigs are even seen as an expensive delicacy and killed when a month or two old. Or day old male chicks are fed into chippers since male chickens have no value.
Here in the states as a first world nation, few humans need meat, dairy, eggs. And how humane is it to use low paid immigrants (often undocumented) to do the will of their employers who are more akin to first world slave owners?
14
@Beth Grant-DeRoos It's so horrible to think of all of the animal suffering due to humans. Milk is for the cow's babies, nor for humans. It's a horrible fate for the baby male chicks. And my favorite farm animals are pigs -- so intelligent -- and the little piglets so cute...well, I could go on and on but I will say that the human species is despicable -- a horror!
3
Should council members ban live raw oysters as well ? Forcibly prying open their shell and swallowing them is certainly as barbaric as force feeding any duck.
7
An irresponsible piece that is paid for by the foie gras industry. The NYTimes should be ashamed of themselves for fabricating a story to make an issue like animal abuse racial. The animal abusers at Hudson Valley Foe Gras’ lies continue to go unchecked by reporters who care more about headlines than truth.
8
Have you ever seen the gavage? The animals don't really seem to care after the first time. Half of them line up for feeding time.
4
"The animal abusers at Hudson Valley Foe Gras’ lies continue to go unchecked by reporters who care more about headlines than truth."
That's incoherent, but if you believe someone is lying, please be specific -- post a quote from the article.
3
Mayor Goober strikes again.
6
2 years to find something to replace foie gras or develope new markets. Or you can just dig in and demand that no one changes anything. Put another way, you can adapt to the changing world or let it run you over.
5
Commenter Foodie writes, "If you don't like the idea of foie gras, don't eat it. Don't buy it. And - if you want to be very serious about it - don't go to restaurants who put it on their menus."
Before you disagree with Foodie, consider substituting "abortion" for Foie gras." If you don't like abortion, then don't have one. That's your choice, but my choice should be mine, not the government's.
17
I wholeheartedly agree all of us need to change our habits and eat far less animal protein - for our own physical health and the continued survival of the planet. However, those who justify outlawing foie gras because its production is ‘barbaric’ apparently fail to confront their own hypocrisy. The mass production of beef, pork and chicken in this country is every bit as bloody and horrific; and employment in the slaughterhouses and processing plants producing those foods every bit as brutal and mind-numbing. Very few Americans will endure the working conditions; yet the same Americans rail against the immigrants —‘legal’ and ‘illegal’ - who willingly do the work in hopes of greater opportunity and better lives for themselves and their children.
Duck products, including duck confit, magret, foie gras and a variety of duck charcuterie are still produced in Canada and imported to the U.S. The foie gras ban will divert business northward, just as Trump’s ‘Mooslum ban’ has sent thousands of talented young Middle Eastern migrants to pursue their education and work in Canada’s high tech sector after this country vilified and essentially closed its doors to them.
13
Most of the commentators here speaking in favor of the ban seem to have absolutely no understanding of the current economic realities in rural America. Proponents of the ban argue they are merely cutting off access to a luxury product that most people can't afford anyway, as if this strikes a blow not only against animal cruelty but also against elitism. Nonsense! The ban itself is elitism putting the welfare of working class folks at risk.
13
@West Texas Momma tejecting exploitation and violence is not elitism.
4
All animal farming and confinement is abuse, but even small victories such as the NY foie gras ban should be celebrated. Jobs and businesses are not as important as the freedom and welfare of animals.
10
We should get this active over lead levels in our children.
13
Animals have both intelligence and emotion.
As I was driving out to work on the farm one morning, there was a dead mallard drake on the road, hit by a vehicle.
Its mate was sitting next to the corpse, in the road.
When I drove back to town that evening, the hen was still sitting by its mate, mourning.
People don't realize that animals DO THINK and HAVE FEELINGS. They also remember things...it's not all instinct. They TEACH their young.
Raising ducks for foie gras is a disgusting and cruel practice.
The workers are probably illegal anyway.
6
@Raz so if the workers are illegal, they matter less somehow? Putting that at the end of your post kind of makes it seem that you are disconnected from the point you were trying to make. You basically said, animals feel as humans do except for exploited humans who came here to seek a better life, who cares about them? For the record, I am against animal and human exploitation.
3
Is any one else worried that the upstaters might just kill all the ducks in two years and dump them in the reservoir -- you know, the one that connects to the pipes in your home?
The more I learn about upstate-NYC relations, especially around the DEP, the more I'm worried that someone is going to poison our water supply. Just sayin'.
(I hope no one reading this is getting any ideas.)
1
I guess Lincoln was wrong to fight the Civil War?
2
Hey, restaurateurs! Give the foie gras away, and charge lots for the accompaniments. That's what happened in Chicago, and the ban went away.
5
This is not a local farm. It is a Wall Street Operation
Here is the profile of the co-founder and chef of Hudson Valley Grass
"Michael was born in Seattle, Washington, in 1963. He is a graduate of Brandeis University and studied for an MBA at New York University. After four years on Wall Street as a Senior Vice-President with David Lerner Associates he decided to take a revolutionary step: having been born to Israeli expatriates living in America, in 1988 Michael joined the Israeli Defense Forces. He served as a patrol-commanding Captain in the Gaza Strip and as the Israeli Defense Forces spokesperson. It was in Israel that Michael first discovered the potential of modern-age Foie Gras processing.
Michael pursued his dream by establishing what is today the major Foie Gras producer in the United States."
Did you notice ". After four years on Wall Street as a Senior Vice-President with David Lerner Associates " ?
11
@Lisa This is very interesting and relevant to the story. Should be an editor's pick.
3
Truman Capote described the eating habits of the rich:
"Little baby corn, little baby peas, little lambs that have been ripped out of their mothers' wombs. That's the real difference. All of their vegetables are so incredibly fresh and unborn.”
3
Gorging on food is a natural process for Ducks and Geese preparing to migrate. The "gavage"process is not as inhumane as it sounds - especially when compared to factory farming of livestock. The ban is silly and unenlightened.
https://www.tastingtable.com/culture/national/foie-gras-ethical-force-feed-duck
9
Capitalist society promotes triangulated desire and puts poor people in a position where they must torture animals in order to survive. It is morally wrong to needlessly kill, it is morally wrong to use food as a status symbol and it is morally wrong to be luxuriously rich when so many are poor. Just as this society will eventually wean itself from fossil fuels, it will wean itself from killing and torturing animals to pleasure an appetite or impress one's self or some other fool.
7
Foie Gras is a delicious delicacy that my family has made a part of our holiday meal tradition. We are by no means rich. But we make sacrifices for the things we enjoy like any other middle class American family.
What is rich are the many commenters who are bemoaning the mistreatment of these ducks, then turning around and chowing down on their factory farmed and factory slaughtered meals. The animal cruelty that is billed as business as usual on factory farms absolutely dwarfs what is being done to these ducks. And the biggest tell: these farms are inviting lawmakers and others to tour and see the way these ducks are treated. Meanwhile factory farms are actively lobbying for “ag-gag” laws that make it illegal for concerned consumers to ever get a window into the abject and beyond imaginable horrors that go on every day. Let’s put this in perspective and think how many ducks are being debatably mistreated to the billions (that’s BILLIONS) of chickens, cows and pigs that are outright TORTURED both throughout their miserable lives and in their last horrifying moments on factory farms and industrial slaughterhouses every year?!
This is purely about optics here. I’m all for treating ALL animals humanly but let’s start with making the kinds of changes that would impact unambiguously cruel practices involving the billions of factory farmed animals first. Then circle back at the end and talk to me about foie gras. Seriously.
17
@CM you are mistaken, most commenters here are against foie gras for the same reason they are against animal agriculture. Both are cruel and unnecessary.
5
This is a classic example of politicians meddling in places they don't belong.
Last year, the NYS legislature outlawed, without exception, declawing of cats. One of the main groups that this affects are people with health issues of their own. One group would be diabetics who have poor wound healing and are subject to infection and cellulitis as a result of their pet cat scratching them. Another group is those on blood thinners who would have more serious trauma from cat scratches. The majority of people in both of these groups are elderly, who may be living alone and rely on the companionship of their pet cats. It was a mistake for the state legislature to stick their nose in a situation without giving anyone an exemption.
5
The people with the types of health issues you describe are welcome to chose another pet or to opt out of having a pet altogether. Someone who truly loves their cat would be loathe to have an entire section of the creature's paw removed, which is what declawing is. For goodness' sake!
2
I don’t have direct experience with these populations, but I have read that declawing cats is extremely painful—it’s akin to having your upper finger joint removed. I think rather than declawing a better solution would be to work with animal rescue groups to find a docile animal, perhaps one that would accept claw caps.
2
@Howard : recently...my husband was trying to restrain our beloved pet cat, so I could give it some pills for her skin allergies.
Cats HATE being pilled, so she was struggling and she ended up clawing my husband's arm so viciously ... he had a huge puncture wound. The next day, despite my cleaning and sterilizing the wound site....it was swollen, puffy and red with streaks going up his arm.
I had to drive him ASAP to the Emergency Room, where he got 4 hours of antibiotic IVs, pain meds and other treatment. Bill? $$$$$$.
And he is generally healthy. Imagine this happening to an elderly senior -- diabetic -- A CHILD!
I do not (obviously) declaw my own cats. But I don't shame people who find this necessary.
Without declawing, many millions of cats would end up homeless, abandoned, in shelters or euthanized.
1
It's my opinion that it's cruel and inhumane for these farm workers to have to work 18 hour days for a pittance -- so where does that $28 million and $10 million go??
3
@Sue O
It goes to running the farm. If you think small farmers are rich, you’ll be hard pressed to understand why so many of us are going broke. No one gives a rip until they hear that all the small farms are being bought up by the Ag giants.
We have completely lost control of our own food supply chain. This will come back to haunt us.
And just for the record, mine is a fruit farm & I am a vegetarian. But that isn’t the point. My point is that people are quick to tear apart the small farmer without understanding how a farm actually works, and without understanding that most everything that goes into most people’s mouths came from other people’s efforts.
Telling a small farmer to just “adapt” is ridiculous. Farming isn’t growing some veggies in your backyard. It is a skill that takes years & years of knowledge built over time with trial and error. This is why small farms often pass down through the family, as a lifetime of knowledge and experience is needed to survive (as well as an unflagging, dogged willingness to work hard, long hours year round just to gamble on next year’s harvest).
2
Actually, the ducks love the gavage. They come running for the food, they are not forced to do it. I live in the Dordogne region of France, where foie gras (and duck meat) is huge enterprise. If you accept the fact that the ducks are raised for meat anyway, what really is the problem with foie gras? It's just another part of the duck.
24
Humans should no longer benefit from the extreme suffering of other species. All factory farming will eventually disappear, and each step towards that goal is a positive one. (Note, I did not say all humans must become vegans.) Get over it and move on.
5
@genie
You may disagree, but from what i can see, I don't consider this "factory" farming. One of the farms sells $10 mm yearly (sounds like revenue, not profit). Perdue brought in $6.7 billion in 2016, by contrast.
7
I live in a region of France where foie gras is a regular part of everyday family menus prepared in multiple ways. Both the Egyptians and Romans had their own methods of preparation. I wonder if your readers understand how it is really produced, including for example that the geese and ducks rush en masse to be fed the corn at feeding time on the farms.
Still it is strange to receive lessons about animal treatment by the nation singlehandedly responsible for introducing the largest scale systemic cruelty to animals in the world to produce the hamburger paddies and chicken nuggets that have destroyed the agricultural landscape of the United States and that seems to raise no objections.
29
As a hobby farmer (no kill/free range) just because I love to see the poultry roam the place, so maybe really just a grower-I would have to agree. They probably do like the garage. If large amount of enticing food were given to my poultry they would gorge themselves.
8
@New World
While it may seem strange, as you would see if you visit one of the smaller farms in my region, they actually do like it, and come running to be fed. The translation of force fed can in this way be a bit misleading.
7
Yes, it is not torture. They line up for it
3
I noticed Paul below makes the same point and it's one of consistency. Animal cruelty exists in many areas of meat production, so you can't arbitrarily pick one form and ban it.
It has to be excessively cruel as in veal production.
The city is responding to a growing awareness about animal suffering. Perhaps to eliminate excessive cruelty, people may reconsider their diets.
4
While in Figeac, France, I had a dish of pure, fresh, locally produced foie gras. It was luxuriously delicious, of course, but throughout I could not enjoy it because mind mind was possessed with a constant awareness of the truly awful process employed to produce it. Needless to say, I've not had foie gras since, and never will again. It is a luxury we can very easily do without.
8
Well you can choose to do without it, but your choice should not affect the farmers whose livelihoods depend on it. It is not torture, the animals love the gavage, and it does not harm them. They are raised for slaughter anyway, the foie gras is just another part of the duck
4
Ever had a stomachache from eating too much? Ever had fatty liver? They're doing that to the geese deliberately, but 5 times worse - forcing them to eat even more than they normally would when they gorge! And the liver grows to 10 times it's usual size!
I've had liver problems that are far less than that, and it is quite uncomfortable.
I eat animals for my food. But to be pointlessly cruel to them before they die is just plain wrong.
9
Here's the key line in the article:
"lack of evidence that birds are harmed by the process".
Basically, they overeat - uncomfortable, but not necessarily cruel or painful. Gavage is an artificial exaggeration of a natural process: ducks and geese gorge themselves before migration and their livers become naturally enlarged, storing energy needed in the migration.
Is it more cruel than, for example, hooking a fish then letting it suffocate while it flops around on the deck? Human have evolved as omnivores; that won't change.
Personally, I agree with Angie Mar, foie gras is delicious, "There's nothing like it." I always bring back cans of it when I go to France.
16
I'm vegan. I enjoy food! But I think more of us can enjoy delicious and healthy food when we don't put our labor and land into growing animals.
I will hazard that foie gras is low lying fruit in the foodie ethics wars. It is an obvious perversion of what seems natural in animal husbandry.
Finally. Our society, communities, regions, states, can use laws to create industries that employ local people and towns. It may not look like classic capitalism, but neither does the rest of agriculture any more, does it? Let's get creative and think for the long term.
7
The ban was totalitarian over-reaching by a government ignoring the real issues. Shame on them.
14
These workers are also being factory farmed. They are horribly exploited. People who are forced to kill for your unnecessary "luxury goods" work drenched in blood, eight hours a day, five days a week! They experience psychological issues, traumatic stress, etc. Before anyone suggests this is all about jobs, please spend a week slaughtering ducks yourself and then get back to us. The issue of "jobs" has always been used as an excuse to continue barbaric cultural practices. The issue was used to try to justify slavery. The issue was used to try and keep women out of the work force. The reality is this. Everybody is going to have to get out of animal agriculture because of its gross inefficiency as a food source and its horrific impact on the climate. Exhibit a: animal agriculture is destroying the Amazon! Go plant-based. It's healthier for you. There will still be jobs. We could live in a world of natural abundance and non-violence. We could eliminate human world hunger if we stopped forcibly producing and slaughtering tens of billions of animals every year who eat much more than they produce as food.
12
While the idea of immigrant labor exploitation is distasteful at best, getting out of industrial ag for many immigrants is a fanciful one. Most jobs that poor and uneducated immigrants can get right after moving here are either in food processing, manufacturing, or fast food restaurants that serve processed meat that were viciously factory farmed. While I agree with the big picture resolution you propose, it’s a lot tougher reality to manage if you’re one of these farm workers—a day working at eviscerating duck carcasses aside. Big cities think of these lofty ideas but hardly ever do its people have to shoulder the consequences. Humans > ducks
I'm happy for the poor ducks.
Check out the definition of gavage:
The administration of food or drugs by force, especially to an animal, typically through a tube leading down the throat to the stomach.
6
@Beanie Ducks have not gag reflex. Anthropomorphic.
5
I guess the city council was so woke to save the ducks they forget about the people it impacts from consumers to farm workers all the way through the supply chain.
But highly processed and factory foods are OK? What a bunch of woke hypocrites
16
The animals exist in hellish conditions, their caretakers in conditions not much better. Good riddance to this whole sordid scene!
15
@Ed Radford What are you basing the "hellish" conditions on? They seem to be well-cared for to me, relative to factory farms.
6
@S. Parker "force-feeding male Moulard ducks — a sterile hybrid of Pekin and Muscovy ducks — through a tube shoved down their throats three times a day during the last three weeks of their lives, a process known as gavage, which expands their livers to 10 times their normal size."
This qualifies as 'hellish'
3
No, they enjoy it. It is not « shoved down their throats, they line up to get it. They like it!
6
What Sullivan County really needs to do is take back it's water rights. The City shouldn't own key resources of the county (yes you drink from the Neversink reservoir among others.
4
Thanks to the reporter for writing this piece. Moralists need to be confronted with the effects of their moralizing. Shameful. Oh, but those poor ducks . . .
5
When the human species, a tribe made up of creatures called Homo sapiens, can evolve-advance to where they do not need foie gras for food, then maybe the species could start working on its other overly aggressive bloodthirsty behaviors.
5
At the same time, we are getting ready to send more young Americans off to kill more young men from the Middle East.
6
Um . . .
Gavage has been used to feed infants who have no suck. OK, not with metal tubes. But I'd be careful about calling the procedure categorically inhumane.
9
Such an expensive delicacy but the workers are paid minimum wage. Reminds of my farmworker days in California; minimum wage pay while our bosses made of money off our backs.
Maybe this ban will force everyone to be creative in what products they will now sell and new job opportunities they must seek; both unpleasant.
The social injustices forced me to get an education and become a citizen so I could make some real money and make a difference with my money and my vote.
5
Force feeding ducks to make an artificially inflated liver - and they want to let it continue in order to let 400 workers stay in that job? 400 - and that's not just those making the duck liver - that's all of the people working the farm even in the civilized and normal tasks of feeding the rest of the ducks normally.
They've years to transition their business, rather than fight to continue to abuse animals in a way that makes this dedicated carnivore cringe, they should move on. I love my meat, and it's natural for us to eat it, but to abuse an animal so that it's organs expand, and pretend that is OK because it gives you a job - nope.
15
Amen to that!
1
It is not abuse, they like it!
2
I have a legal question: doesn't the constitution give the power to regulate interstate commerce to Congress ? If so I can see where NYC can ban foie gras made in NYS, but cannot ban foie gras made in other states or imported. Congress would have to do that. What am I missing?
1
I think the problem for these farmers is that new york city is their largest market. They're sure to see a sharp decline in revenue.
1
"What am I missing?"
The States routinely regulate liquor and cigarette sales. And they can prosecute smugglers:
"The New York State Department of Taxation and Finance and the Westchester County District Attorney’s Office today announced [that a defendant] pleaded guilty to attempting to smuggle untaxed liquor into New York State for resale."
Liquor Smuggler Agrees to Forfeit Alcohol and Vehicle After Guilty Plea
New York State Department of Taxation and Finance
August 15, 2019
Source: tax.ny.gov web site.
See, also, the 10th Amendment to the US Constitution.
Really, I'm supposed to feel sorry for people who make their living by torturing animals? Everyone who says that force feeding ducks is not cruel or harmful should go ahead and try it themselves. Have a tube stuck down your throat with food forced in, three times a day, so some people upstate can keep their current jobs without having to look elsewhere. Are you willing to do that? How easily we justify the suffering of others that we would never accept for ourselves.
16
How easily we ignore the economic suffering of workers, farmers and an entire region as we self-righteously pass judgment. I’m sure it’s just a matter of sending out a couple of resumes but they can’t be bothered
3
@Rebecca I don't care about the workers since they are torturers/murderers. Let them go back to where they came from or else find another line of work.
2
A fowl with its liver distorted by fat to ten times its normal size has a disease. Fatty liver in humans - due to excess alcohol or obesity - is a disease, one associated with a rapidly increasing mortality worldwide.
Force feeding an animal a diet with the intention of producing a disease seems cruel to me. What's the difference from veal - where a diet induced severe anemia produces a 'luxury' food? A good many civilised countries have already banned veal production.
Foie gras is indeed banned in the UK but I've eaten it in France. What's the fuss about? It neither tastes very interesting on its own nor does it compliment the foods that it's supposed to accompany. Perhaps I'm just a Philistine but it seems to me that the world wouldn't be worse off without fatty pate.
7
The logic is all wrong here. A mode of commercialized animal torture was stopped, so we should mourn the loss of jobs that support that torture?
Really?
Times change, and people need to adapt to new ethical standards. Plenty of livelihoods were lost when commercial whale hunting was abolished in this country. Does anyone regret that? A few years ago the regulations for raising veal in the US changed, and it is no longer legal to tether them in dark, cramped crates. The industry had to adapt.
So adapt. There is no excuse for animal torture. Even if that’s your livelihood.
21
Totally agree! Absolutely, clear, logical thinking, quite lacking in some of the comments, thank you.
5
This article about foie gras and the hysterical ranting about harm to the ducks who produce it is based on ignorance about the feeding process (gavage). i have been in farms in france where the ducks or geese are fed. i've watched as the animals chase the feeders for more food. there is NOTHING forced about it! why do so many numbskulls--who have never seen the process in person--get to make decisions for us all? it's obviously anthropomorphism: humans with lurid, neurotic imaginings of eating through a tube in the mouth. our anatomical systems are nothing like ducks' and geese!
12
Fine. Then you get fatty liver disease if you think it's so great. But the rest of us would like to stop forcing that on other sentient beings.
11
As I was driving out to the farm one morning, There was a dead mallard drake on the road, hit by a vehicle.
It's mate was sitting next to the corpse, in the road.
When I drove back to town that evening, the hen was still sitting by its mate, mourning.
People don't realize that animals DO THINK and HAVE FEELINGS. They also remember things...it's not all instinct. They TEACH their young.
Raising ducks for foie gras is a disgusting and cruel practice.
The workers are probably illegal anyway.
8
You had me until the last line. Seems you limit your compassion to ducks.
2
So this gets banned, but fried chicken can still be sold? (I like both.) Would you rather come back as a foie gras duck or future fryer? The geese do come running when they hear the gavrotage bell. They would naturally gorge themselves in the fall in any event, just not to this extent. At least if you are vegan you are not a hypocrite. Is it the price? What about pate? That is not expensive. But liverwurst is ok? Filet is ok? Tongue? Until they get banned next. This is either about class resentment or banning all meat. Disingenuous arguments. And we will see whether humans can en mass abandon meat protein. Another public health experiment like marijuana, gmo food, statins, carbo/grain loading. Are these great jobs? No, but they are jobs and we don't need more uber drivers upstate. These people will be retrained to do what? Probably fast food workers, part-time/irregular at best, no benefits. Serving chicken nuggets. Pollution produces direct injury. So does smoking, although cant see why there cant be separate areas. What I eat does not injure you. But apparently it is ok to ban it if it offends you. Until your goose is cooked.
3
@xxyyzz
I'm a happy carnivore. This isn't about banning all meat - it's about banning a cruel practice - as you admit - the ducks would NOT eat this much naturally. Make all the fois gras you'd like from ducks that eat what they choose to.
3
Unbelievable piece!!! We’re to allow the wholesale abuse of animals? People have lost jobs for centuries for less heinous and market-force reasons. Retraining and help to get into another form of farming (fruits and vegetables maybe?) or moving where the jobs are is the norm for outdated and environmentally and/or animal unfriendly businesses!
14
Tyson and Purdue are legal businesses that brutalize and torture billions of birds but force feeding otherwise perfectly well treated farm animals is unacceptable to our City Council?
Politicians make it easy to despise them.
7
Otherwise perfectly well treated? Do you honestly believe that? These animals have fatty liver disease. On purpose. If you made your own child sick, it would be called a mental illness. But it's OK to do it to animals for mere palate pleasure and a few jobs? Please.
4
Cause suffering, consume suffering, abide suffering...and then wonder why you should suffer. There are humane ways to make a living.
11
The farmers who hire illegal immigrants should be prosecuted as should all employers who hire undocumented immigrants.
6
NYers should be more responsible for their role in the food chain because without farms they would be eating each other alot faster than most of them realize. What next? Deblasio is the kind of liberal that makes all the rest look bad.
2
Torturing animals shouldn't be the way of poverty and unemployment. Shame on you for indulging these psychopaths.
5
An 18 YO college female is angry over this practice- therefore it must be abolished.. // consequences be damned // just as long as she feels better [before the fraternity and sorority social].
4
I’m less concerned for the gourmands than the gourmets. The former will find plenty of other stuff to gorge on, the latter might not, being more discerning.
Vegans, you may chuckle at this but it's only a matter of time before we take you almonds away as an "unjustified use of water."
Doubled edged sword for sure.
182
@Chris Hmm, wouldn't a vegan diet beat any animal product raised on a farm in terms of water use? After all, you have to use water to raise the animal, then use more water to produce the feed for those animals. If you eat only plants, you only water once. Perhaps this argument is an "unjustified use if logic." If so, I apologize.
23
@Chris I can live without almonds.
7
@Chris
Favorite signage at the BBQ joint ..
"9 out of 10 carnivores prefer vegans for dinner"
2
Yes, blame it those mean liberals who decry animal rights and decent conditions for the slaughter of animals. And if it was peacock tongues,( also favored by the rich dandies of the Robber Barron era) would that be fine too because big money should get whatever they want? The unrestrained free market that caters only to the profits and quirks of the rich has given us the Great Recession, Trump, a trillion dollar annual deficit and the greatest socioeconomic inequality in modern times. Upstate NY is starved for jobs because no state or federal administration has seriously funded a comprehensive plan for job growth which would pay for itself and more in jobs and increased tax revenues. But that would be stepping on the toes of the rich and powerful who claim only they can create or take away jobs with no interference.
10
Dear Times editors, I don’t understand what has happened to the principles of balanced journalism that we journalists used to try to uphold: If there is so much widespread public belief that foie gras is a product of abhorrent cruelty, so much that sufficient political will has led government leaders to institute a ban, how can you publish an article that fails even to mention the reason for the ban throughout the first 19 paragraphs. Even beyond paragraph 19, throughout the rest of this whopping 45-paragraph long feature, I count a total of three sentences devoted to the perspective of proponents of the ban.
Obviously the focus of this article is on the adverse human impact of the ban, so of course the vast bulk of the writing should be on this theme — but giving zero mention or explanation of the reason for the ban, for an astounding 19 paragraphs, is ridiculous.
Dear Times Editors, many of us feel it’s cruel to shove a force-feeding tube down a duck’s throat 40 or 60 times before killing it so that you can bloat its liver tenfold. In a story about the ban we advocated for successfully, couldn’t you maybe mention our opinion, and a description of the process we feel is cruel, somewhere within the first third of your very very long article?
16
@Ben Widespread by whose definition? A vocal minority is not a majority, a cultish mania over animal protection is not a valid argument for law. Your presumption of power over others and their views is cruel.
2
@Ben
Exactly! I kept reading and looking for the reason for the ban, which I'd expect to see at the top of the story - nope. Context should be a key part of even an advocacy or human interest story.
5
Achieve more for animal welfare by banning factory farming. Meat would be more expensive, so we would have to eat less of it, but that would no doubt be a win for our health, partly because the animals wouldn't need to be pumped full of antibiotics to keep them alive in their crowded cages.
7
Ok we ban this delicacy in NYC and end up destroying a lot of peoples livelihood. But NYC does not care - it is a self-centered location that only thinks about itself and has not regard for the rest of the US. For decades Upstate New YORK had had to pay high taxes to support NYC which cannot support itself - it loves to paste feel good legislation like the foie gras ban as it makes the city and its legislator feel morally superior to every one else.
NYC needs to be isolated from the rest of the state so that its feel-superior legislation does not destroy those who do not live in NYC.
1
I would welcome the opportunity to go see for myself, and I think a contingent from the City Council should have made the trip ( and still should) before passing a law with such far-reaching consequences for a struggling and hard-working rural community. I would like to see for myself whether and how much all these ducks struggle to escape their feedings. From the pictures posted in this article their circumstances seem idyllic compared to mass production poultry farms. The City Council might well add a visit to one of those and then put those major producers out of business instead - but oh the political hazard of a truly humane effort.
.
7
Chicken liver pate is in my opinion just as good as duck or good pate (especially Eric Bittman's recipe in NYT Cooking) and no where near as expensive. You can make it yourself easily with the help of a food processor. It's no big deal to make. Chicken livers are plentiful and cheap and are byproducts of the gigatons of chicken the world consumes. You can also get duck or goose liver if you look. All this ban means is that you need to make the pate yourself! It's better that way any way!
What about industrial hog and chicken farms? What about feeding corn to animals that cannot process it - just to get more weight for sale?
Foie gras? Please - get real. What about inhumane treatment of animals raised exclusively for food - there are more heartbreaking stories that fatty livers in ducks and geese.
6
All life evolves, and we humans were given large brains for the evolution of our intelligence and problem-solving skills.
The ducks are force-fed through a tube down the throat to fatten the liver five times its normal size.
We are not cave men. It doesn't take a scientist to recognize how unnatural and uncomfortable this must be for the ducks. They are sentient creatures like us.
However, I do support funding to help these operations transition their livelihood. I think this should happen whenever any law if passed that takes away an existing livelihood. That way we bring compassion to both sides.
13
Yeah and we eat them. Let’s not forget the fact that we are part of nature and like it or not nature is bloody in tooth and claw. I don’t think ducks like being eaten alive either yet that is the fate of many who are grabbed by predators.
We’re not cavemen but we are still animals.
@Jules
They've got years of time to prepare. They're refusing and working on hard luck stories highlighting a few pretty examples. This is not the only job in the world, the duck farms sell other products.
3
Good for the Mayor. I was really concerned about this whole foie gras issue. It's vastly more important than the throngs of homeless people covering NYC in the winter or the constant woes of the MTA.
12
This would have looked better if factory farmed pork, chicken and beef had been banned first.
The reality is that you cannot farm ducks at the low standard of those other animals. You must treat them humanely. And they freely accept the gavage. I'm undecided on wether this is still a bad idea, but I am 100% decided on the fact that the way we treat other farm animals is unacceptable. Why didn't New York go for the chickens first?
6
Isn't the feeding a natural process for the ducks though? I thought they force feed themselves if given the opportunity. And that was how foie gras came to be... maybe I'm wrong though.
5
@Nicolas they do, but not to the extent that the farmers do it.
2
So it is with most liberal big ideas (snake oil). The main effect of a higher minimum wage is for restaurants to cut the number of employees and to increase automation when they can. Restrictions on water flow in toilets means that many toilets are readily clogged and must be flushed several times. Resistance to managed immigration means that people die while trying to cross barren stretches of Arizona.
2
Not sure why they're worried. NY State, being the progressive, forward looking state they are will implement a training system. All these former ag works will get free training in Ruby on Rails, PHP, HTML 5, and C#. So they'll be assured of a great future.
2
Only those of us who are so fortunate as to not live in Honduras could read this article and conclude that the great tragedy described in this article is that ducks are force-fed.
22
The foie gras issue is the tip of a larger ice berg: animal cruelty that is inherent in our food industries. Whether we slaughter our livestock for food or condemn the animals to a death by a thousand blows, humans are the scourge of the planet.
Most of us were raised utterly oblivious of the animal suffering that makes our dietary preferences possible. The issue is simple: What kind or amount of animal cruelty is tolerable in the industries that supply our food.
Is it cruel? Well, one test is whether, were the roles reversed, you would tolerate such treatment.
We are all of us victims of our ignorance. No one explained -
as we first tasted (and wanted more) baby ribs, lamb, eggs,
foie gras -how the food arrived at our table.
Most of the workers who will lose their jobs-if our diet moves away from products tied to animal cruelty-deserve
support and retraining. Individuals who profited from these industries do not.
6
@Christy Vaile Agreed. remember the blubber industry?
1
Compared to the factory farming of pigs, foie gras is chicken feed. It's questionable as to whether force-feeding ducks and geese is painful to them, but probably not. Do these animals are treated better than most of the other animals we consume, but they're either out-of-state, or made big campaign donations.
This ban does more harm than good, but, for politicians, it's a nice fatty emotional issue that makes their constituents feel all warm and fuzzy, while their taking away the jobs of poor people. That's OK because they never see them.
4
Don't try to make me feel bad that banning the production of foie gras means that immigrants employed to force feed animals so rich people can eat an expensive appetizer will lose their jobs. It's a revolting practice that should end.
19
Well, dairy farmers daughter. We'll see how you feel when they come after the dairy industry for ecological crimes and Bovine Cruelty...this is low hanging fruit for the forces that want to ban all animal products outright....
6
'Mayor Bill de Blasio called foie gras “a luxury item that the vast majority of us would never be able to afford.”'
That's leftist logic. The NYC mayor complaining about "luxury" is pure hypocrisy. Most of "us would never be able to afford" a "luxury" condo either. Or a "luxury item" from Tiffany's. And Broadway show tickets are a "luxury" too.
Indeed, NYC is *defined* by luxury, so why is the NYC mayor debasing his own city?
7
@PLS
It's no more leftist logic than it is rightist logic.
The left doesn't have a lock on hypocrisy.
Not by a long shot.
2
“There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.” --- Terry Pratchett
7
Liberal engineering at its' finest! I'm sure there are plenty of upper middle class white families in NYC who'll be happy to employ the immigrant duck farmers as a live in housemaids.. See everything works out!
2
unfortunately, that's a nasty comment
2
Rather than dig in their heels about the ducks, these families need to think outside the box and go with the flow. The cruelty to the ducks is unimaginable. Instead of fighting the ban they should think of other ways to subsist. For example, Dixy, perhaps with a co-author, should write a book that may someday become a movie, about her harrowing escape from Honduras. That is a fascinating story that could secure their income for years to come.
6
Like CAFO raised chickens this is inhumane to say the least. We all need to quit eating this stuff. Start with the $6.99 brolier chickens, if you saw how they were raised you'd never eat another one ever again. It is inhumane.
16
"Start with the $6.99 brolier chickens, ..."
Roasted whole chickens are $4.50 at my Walmart.
Sometimes the leg bones have spiral fractures. That's a sign of rough-handling, although it could be post-slaughter.
3
Ok, so next we ban chicken, pork and beef, because you know, killing animals and eating them is cruel. Hey, I am a liberal, but let's be real people, sometimes a duck is a duck, nothing more. if I hear one more person tell me how cruel I am for killing a big bug, excuse me, lobster... Let's put some hardworking people out of work and tell people how to eat. Is this the best the lame NYC leaders can come up with vs. the few other less than serious problems there are to solve in NYC. BTW, can I still buy soda in NYC, seems like I remember another amazing idea....
9
I live in California where foie gras is banned. It's a stupid ban. Lavage does not hurt ducks or geese. They are able to swallow whole a flapping fish. Sure, the animal is killed, but so are other food animals. You want to stop inhumane treatment of animals, then ban veal.
10
@Sam Francisco Then dairy cows would have to also be banned.
This ban is nothing but glib political posturing by politicians feigning to care about animal welfare when thousands of factories around the country raise and process animals in conditions that make these ducks lives look like a vacation at a beach resort. Would they dare ban factory raised chicken or beef or pork in NYC? Of course not. But fois gras is a product that few people care about and those that do are well off so its nothing but a double win for the politicians with zero risk.
I am a meat eater but I know that the ducks at these farms have a much better life than any 5 dollar chicken you buy at a typical grocery store. Probably even a better life than the "humanely raised" ones Whole Foods sells for 15 dollars.
Such hypocrisy.
392
@Gunnar
That's pretty depressing.
American animal welfare standards are so low that foie gras production isn't really any worse? So. that's all right then...
21
"... any 5 dollar chicken you buy at a typical grocery store."
Roasted whole chickens are $4.50 at my Walmart.
Sometimes the leg bones have spiral fractures. That's a sign of rough handling, although it could be post-slaughter.
13
@Gunnar You are exactly right. It is an easy thing to do, ban a food that very few people eat while allowing millions of other farm animals to continue being treated inhumanely. 100% hypocrisy and posturing. If you are really concerned about cruelty against farm animals, ban all cruel practices. It will not happen, though, because politicians are in the hands of big agribusiness.
45
I would like to see all those farm owners and workers being forced fed via a tube three times a day and see what they think of the process. It’s barbaric indeed. Most people in this country are so far removed from how animals are treated and killed that they even refuse any information that may change their views. All they care about is that dead animal on their plate that the satiety it brings.
11
@Jaime Fernandez So you're vegan I assume? Otherwise it's not much different from any other form of industrial farming.
8
@Jaime Fernandez It is so heart-breaking to read about the billions of animals/sentient beings tortured/murdered in the US every year. Someday (not in my lifetime) those barbaric slaughterhouses will be shut down. Banning duck liver and fur in NYC is a good beginning. I don't care about the workers. They can go find work somewhere else.
2
While I consider myself an old 1960’s liberal, I am constantly amazed that we humans have more compassion for animals than we do other humans. We seem to have humanized every animal while dehumanizing people, “they’re illegals, get a new life, learn another way to farm, let me take my service animal everywhere I want, get rid of the zoos, etc.”. If only we put the same emphasis on our fellow suffering humans who live on the streets or in poverty!
10
@seldon1
Where do you get that we have more compassion for animals than people? We're not force feeding people!
5
we're not even feeding them.
1
@Samuel Russell
Yeah, but you’re forcing them out of their jobs. How would you like it if others thought ducks were more important than you and put you out of work?
I grew up in Sullivan County during the heyday of the resort industry when both Jewish and Gentile families found a welcome while on vacations. Most of the difficult hospitality jobs were held by locals, although the biggest resorts routinely hired struggling Bowery men and bused them to the big kitchens of the Concord, etc. to labor in tough jobs. In the decades since the collapse of that industry the government has failed to help reinvigorate the labor climate while awaiting the casino. So please help me understand the true difference between forcing food into ducks and forcing money out of the pockets of suckers who should be home with their families or finding healthier pursuits. Where’s the outrage about the cruelty of government sponsored proliferation of gambling? I’ll take vigorous Simon Sez games around the pool over Blackjack any day. Re: the primary topics here—immigrant workers and a cruel industry—the demand for drugs in the US is the primary reason why terroristic gangs exist in Central America. If we helped those countries to reduce criminal activity fewer families would seek to escape to our safer haven. Americans surely won’t do those jobs so, minus the creation of gavaging robots, this industry would disappear in America. I feel for Parksville but if it hadn’t been for the NYS government and county fathers/mothers insisting that casinos were the SOLE solution, the county would have had a renaissance by now. Finally let’s have outrage about drug consumption.
5
It tastes great. Don't eat it if you don't like it.
9
@Eater fatty liver yum.
It’s always tough to fight what people imagine is happening.
6
I enjoy the taste of foie gras and will be sorry to see it go.
3
There is a lot of uninformed but no doubt heartfelt concern about an allegedly cruel practice of force feeding the ducks. A couple of posts came from people who had actually visited the farms and who noted that the ducks did not resist or run from the immanent forced feeding that they get three times a day.
The ducks don't seem to mind, so why do you?
A very relevant point made is made in some comments that fate of other animals that are imprisoned and slaughtered in factory processing plants, for human consumption, is hugely "inhumane," and certainly more so than the ducks on these couple of farms.
The City Council decided to punish these duck processors because they could, and based on the members' clearly overwhelming posturing or honest feeling that the force feeding practice is cruel and inhuman. At the same time, the only Council member who actually visited the farms voted against the ban.
I would guess that a majority of those who even think about the matter presume the practice of force feeding is unpleasant to the ducks in question. On the face of it, I would also presume that it is.
But the evidence says otherwise. The ban is an example of the tyranny of the majority with no facts to back up its opinion, not the proof of cruelty towards willing ducks.
That foie gras is increasingly banned elsewhere is no proof that the bans are justified on the presumption of cruelty to the ducks. It is rather proof that you can fool most of the people some of the time.
23
@Nik Cecere Best comment !
Astonishing advocacy here for an inhumane practice designed for the sole purpose of pleasuring the human palate.
So selfish. Always so selfish.
Animal suffering completely ignored.
What a miserable bunch you are.
13
PETA won’t be happy until we’re all vegan and no new medicines are being developed.
9
This story is a little late to consider the fate of the workers in this industry. It should have been written before the City Council acted.
I am so glad I’ve moved from New York City, having lived there the first 63 years of my life. I don’t like what the City has become and I find that I don’t miss living there in the least.
The hypocrisy of Bill Deblasio seems to have no limits. I can’t afford to be chauffeured to my gym every morning but I certainly can afford to splurge on a delicacy like foie gras a few times a year. Stop pretending you are one of the masses, Mr. Mayor; you’ve never known what it’s like not to be paid by the government to do very little work; or am I wrong about how hard it is to be Public Advocate? It must be nice to pop into work at 11 am now that you are a lame duck. As to the City Council members who voted for this ban, in my entire life in NYC, I don’t think I ever encountered an elected Councilperson with the intelligence or integrity to hold office without pandering to what they think is the constituency they need to get re-elected. Term limits have only lessened the quality of the pool of candidates.
6
Our domestic animals are multitude. Industrial meat is an abomination but foie gras is "too much". What a joke. I'm not going to stop eating foie gras. I have completely stopped eating industrial meat. There is no happiness for our domestic food animals, stop pretending. Even on the most organic free range farm that exists they still slaughter them so we can eat them. There are no angels on the head of this pin.
5
I am French. I've read, maybe I'm wrong here, that in USA, foie gras must be heated to a temperature mandated by the FDA, that renders it kind of tasteless. I've also read there is a
new method that does not involve cruelty and still gets you foie gras. Having said that, abusing immigrants is on all those white people farmers you want us to pity as they lose this business. No can do. I eat foie gras rarely, I find it over rated and too expensive in France ! I'm a 'foodie', you can take my French word here! No tears
1
"I've read, maybe I'm wrong here, that in USA, foie gras must be heated to a temperature mandated by the FDA, ..."
A web search for '"Foie Gras" temperature site:gov' finds nothing like that.
Please be more specific about where you read that. (It can be in French.)
Duck torture. That’s what it is. Duck torture. I have zero interest in the plight of the the workers involved in duck torture.
8
@BBB Most of our meat including fish, comes from animal torture. I am not vegan.
4
To produce “foie gras” (the French term means “fatty liver”), workers ram pipes down the throats of male ducks twice each day, pumping up to 2.2 pounds of grain and fat into their stomachs, or geese three times a day, up to 4 pounds daily, in a process known as “gavage.” The force-feeding causes the birds’ livers to swell to up to 10 times their normal size. Many birds have difficulty standing because their engorged livers distend their abdomens, and they may tear out their own feathers and attack each other out of stress.
PS, There is more on the subject if you care to found out!
8
@Arthur The facts are hard to take, but thank you for the truth. The diners should know the details. They are an uncompassionate bunch as they continue to order it.
The ban is a victory for the ducks and long overdue .
1
The New York Times should not have buried the description of how ducks are force-fed so far into the story. That should’ve been in the lead paragraph. Then everyone would have understood that it is absolutely barbaric cruelty. This is framed as though it is a terrible thing for the workers without pointing out that new jobs can and should be created that don’t involve this kind of mediaeval idiocy.
8
@Donna I appreciate your point but don't know that this is any worse that then industrial farming that mammals are forced to endure.
4
@AC Chicago
I think it's akin to the difference between force feeding inmates who are on on hunger strike and inmates living in routinely horrible prison conditions (overcrowding, violence, inadequate health care, etc.) that are the norm. Takes the suffering up a notch. I haven't eaten meat for 50 years and despise agribusiness. I take your point, but this industry relies on a practice that is the equivalent of deliberately inhuman slaughter (which, of course, is commonplace). Also, I include the treatment of chickens and turkeys, not just mammals, in my condemnation.
1
And the law that makes bank robbery a felony, no doubt, puts other people out of “work”. Stop this silliness.
3
Gee! Just develop your taste buds and do some work on your evolved soul to just give this practice up. It is a barbaric, horrible torture for sentient, living beings. What ever possesses us to be so extraordinarily vicious?
7
There is a natural way for ducks to get fatty livers. Its a win-win.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/08/01/487088946/this-spanish-farm-makes-foie-gras-without-force-feeding
2
@Elizabeth Great article.
Let's see here.. Charge $28 for a duck's liver so unskilled laborers can keep their job.
Nope.
3
Hmm, where are all those MAGA hats rally trumpers doing this work instead of immigrants?
2
This is certainly a complicated situation. I think it's bad enough that we all eat meat (I do, myself), but the way foie gras is made is truly barbaric and should be outlawed. That said, there should be some sort of effort by government and society to re-tool these farms into a new sustainable business.
Equally outrageous to the practice of making foie gras is a business that sells, according to this article, almost $40 million a year of product and the people producing in a living in poverty!
4
The work is grueling and repetitive. The farm owners say that without a stream of immigrant workers, they could not hire staff, “even at a good wage.” Sounds like this isn't a very sustainable industry anyway. Are they I-9 compliant?
4
Is there any evidence that it's cruel or are people just projecting their own emotions into the situation? The photo of the process didn't look particularly cruel, no more cruel than killing the animal for food.
There's too much emotive reasoning in the cruelty argument by armchair crusaders who will go on to eat factory produced meat today.
The comments and the ban itself encapsulate the hysteria and half-baked compartmentalized logic animal rights activists are routinely dismissed for.
4
@Megan I find it ironic that people will say this is cruel and barbaric but happily drink factory farmed milk and eat the cheese. Listen to a mother cow wail as her baby calf is dragged away - now that's barbaric. At least the ducks get killed.
2
Well, there's cruelty and then there's cruelty.
Some people believe that force-feeding ducks and eating their fat livers is cruel and inhumane.
Many people believe that killing any animals and eating them is cruel and inhumane.
If force-feeding, killing and eating ducks is wrong, how can slaughtering and eating other living animals be right?
Can anyone say there is a humane or painless way to kill animals, especially in mass quantities? Would anyone use such techniques to "put down" a terminally ill loved one? I don't think so.
I know, animals aren't people, but I think we must recognize that killing animals for food likely causes them excruciating agony that they are all too aware of and would, if given the choice, prefer to avoid.
2
In the majority of the comments I have read supporting the ban, no one speaks of the actual slaughter of the ducks for the duck breasts and other products. I doubt the ducks are in favor of that aspect thus the conundrum. How do you support a ban on force feeding yet not a ban on the meat that comes from the slaughter? It is my opinion that regulatory efforts should be directed on the overall animal welfare (emphasis on available space per animal, sunlight) and environmental impacts of farming (hello leaching corporate animal sewage lagoons). And no I do not eat food grass and am trying very hard to give up all meat.
4
Point noted, but we must start somewhere.
1
Take a moment and watch a video about how Foie Gras is created. I have. It's the stuff of nightmares -- cruel and awful. And I can't imagine that this line of work doesn't have psychological ramifications for those who force feed these animals. So thank you, NYC. I, for one, will manage to enjoy life without fatty duck liver and hope the state can address the economic repercussions for those who need to find different work.
7
@Craig Davison It is exactly the same for all farm animals including dairy animals.
1
There are many other job opportunities out there that don't involve being complicit in and personally taking part in animal torture and abuse.
6
On the one hand, foie gras is an incredibly expensive luxury food that people eat in very small servings. On the other hand, almost all of it created in America come from 2 farms in Sullivan Country, which employ modern, efficient farming processes, are presently 'sold out' and employ 400 people of indeterminate immigration status at what appears to be minimum wage or less.
Where is all the money going?
4
You can always count on do-gooder liberals to take actions that will destroy livelihoods and businesses as well as individual rights because of some artificial notion of ethics applied uniformly instead of evaluating specific cases. Eliminate smoking in restaurants? Both liberals and conservatives would agree that this is a good thing given the dangers of second hand smoke. Smoking by yourself in places where nobody else is around - no problem. This is still America where individuals have rights. Drinking a big gulp with lots of sugar, former Mayor Bloomberg notwithstanding, your decision. Same with foie gras. Personally I wouldn't touch it as I prefer my coronary arteries to remain open, but it should be an individual choice.
@Mike F. ~ I consider myself a "do-good liberal", but this ban is ridiculous. When do we look at the ramifications a ban like this imposes on those humans it impacts? When does the government's control over the choices we make end?
3
@Mrsmarv For liberals of the socialist persuasion, government control over the choices we make and the rights we enjoy never ends. They believe that "the people" are incapable of making their own choices so the government therefore needs to do so.
The natural life cycle of migratory fowl involves gorging to create a fatty liver, which is how foie gras was first discovered centuries ago. In addition, these birds open their throats to allow passage of whole fish. So while you can make an argument against crowding or other less than ideal treatment, there is really nothing about the conditions these birds endure that is any worse than poultry farms across the country. In fact, given its artisanal nature, I would argue that conditions are on balance somewhat better.
Singling out foie gras is, in my view, misguided and anthropomorphic.
6
If the City Council really wanted to ban fois gras and not just make a political statement, they would have started the ban immediately, not two years from now. Almost anything banned starting in the future, somehow never seems to come to fruition.
2
This is terrific journalism, illustrating how a seemingly simple issue can be mind-numbingly complex.
6
I am OK with the four gras ban but we should also think about how to help the workers. Agricultural workers are often put in the worst jobs that are physically difficult and morally demeaning because of the way animals are treated. Animal cruelty should not be the basis for employment but I’m also disturbed by the number of comments that only talk about the animals and ignore the workers. We are a rich enough economy that we can take care of both.
6
I think that the way veal is produced is horrible, so I don't eat veal. But people who want to eat veal should be able to.
People object to the way lots of animals destined for our consumption are treated before they hit our plates. Should beef be outlawed? Chickens? Turkeys?
People do not have to eat fois gras any more than anyone has to eat hamburgers, chicken wings, or Thanksgiving dinner.
Restaurants do not have to sell fois gras.
If people decide that they don't want to eat it and restaurants decide they don't want to sell it, then the lack of demand will lead to less supply.
That's called math.
Also, once upon a time the whole country banned alcohol. How did that turn out?
14
It is absolutely unconscionable that such cruelty to animals can be done to provide such a small segment of the population with a gourmet 'delicacy'. Those that run these farms should be ashamed, as should those that eat fois gras.
The farmers will sleep better at night if they transition to growing/raising sustainable foods in a way that doesn't harm animals.
Outlawing this product and such cruel treatment of the ducks or geese should have been done years ago!
5
@Ann ~ It's easy to play Monday morning quarterback. Are you a farmer? Do you live in a farming community or know any farmers? Do you know how difficult it is for farmers to stay financially solvent/afloat? Do you understand everything that's involved in farming?
Like another person posted - "People object to the way lots of animals destined for our consumption are treated before they hit our plates. Should beef be outlawed? Chickens? Turkeys? "
Kudos to you for showing a sense of compassion for the animals. Try having some compassion for the human part of this equation, which are those people whose lives depend on their farming jobs. Their security (which is tenuous in many cases) may be destroyed by this new edict.
3
@Mrsmarv Using your reasoning to justify keeping these farms in the business of torturing helpless birds is not a valid reason for doing so.
I have no objection to farming of animals for food if they are treated ethically, but that isn't the case when they're raised to produce fois gras. It's sad that the farmers chose to be a part of this business from the getgo.
@Ann Do you eat beef or chicken or pork? Do you drink milk or eat cheese? Do you think dairy cows have a happy life as their calves are dragged away crying? This is sadly no worse than the life of any other factory farmed animals.
1
Other than feeding the egos of those for the ban, what real difference does this make in the life of ducks who are going to be butchered anyway? If plastic tubes are more humane than metal, make them a requirement. Too many Americans force-feed themselves, according to obesity figures. Why is this so terrible for ducks?
8
@Amos M How would you like to have a pipe rammed down your throat twice each day, pumping 30+ pounds of grain and fat into your stomachs, or if you let say shaped like a geese than it's three times a day, 40+ pounds daily,
Now, what if that happened to you? Torture is torture. It goes for all being on this earth.
I don't know anyone who force-feed themselves with pipes shoved down their throats, do you?
The muscovy duck weight in average 10-15 lbs and are being force-fed 2.2 pounds.
1
@Amos M
“Too many Americans force-feed themselves, according to obesity figures.” And that “force feeding” is promoted and encouraged by advertising firms, contracted to the restaurant and fast food industry, that line the concrete canyons of NYC and contribute to the “success” of the city.
Is it possible to make ersatz foie gras with normal livers and duck fat?
1
The ban is ridiculous and arbitrary and should be repealed before going into effect!!!
5
I'm all for foie gras myself.
4
How ridiculous. Animal torture is not an excuse for supporting farmers. These are not the only low wage jobs and there are many other products they can grow.
8
Go ahead, dine on your foie gras, have some veal while you're at it, don't worry about the monstrousness of it, you have no souls to blithely abuse these beings for your pleasure. Oh so tender, smooth, nothing like it, yum.
I only hope there is some justice and y'all will be held to account. I fear it is not to be so.
4
@Me Are you a vegan? Otherwise I'd love to hear your methodology. Is veal bad but milk is ok? If you don't understand the correlation I'd encourage you to spend some time on a dairy farm.
2
It's cruel! It's disgusting! Ban it!
5
How about a nice liverwurst on rye toast instead? Think anyone would know the difference?
But caviar harvesting is going forward?
2
Every story has a hole and this one names only one restaurant that serves a lot of foie gras. Curious what some others are.
1
So foie gras lovers will order from D'Artagnan? The losers will be farmers and farm workers in NY state.
4
I have a better idea!
How about prosecuting the farmers under the new animal cruelty act?!
That The NY Times found sympathy for the animal abuser farmers and their low paid, 1/3 indentured workers is unconscionable.
5
Oh, but fois gras is so delicious! And since the NYT's consistent position is that there is no social ill too great to allow our support of illegal immigration to waver, I simply do not see what the issue is here.
2
There are many examples of the governments' decisions causing pain to this or that business but those decisions have been made democratically and are beyond reproach. In some situations, the entire industries have been hit for probably just reasons (coal, smoking) so this peculiar case is only an anecdotal example.
As for poor MX workers, hopefully legally here, perhaps not, there are thousands US workers who passed through same ordeal when the governments 'approved', encouraged even, outsourcing jobs. That too is nothing new in America. Today you're here, tomorrow who knows?
The farmers can afford to pay an expensive high-powered law firm, but not to provide good wages to their workers? The process is cruel for the animals and they should starting transitioning their farm to something else and away from gruesome animal torture.
18
@Mark Actually, hiring an expensive lobbying firm was part of the farmer's efforts to protect the workers. Believe it or not, the cost of labor can extend beyond wages.
5
hey Mark, what about the Texas roundup of rattlesnakes?
The first photo encapsulates the cruelty which the foie gras industry, and factory farming in general, inflicts on animals and humans. A young boy has been trained to handle a living creature as if it were inanimate - held upside down by one leg - indifferent to its existence as a living, breathing fellow creature. He has been taught to act as if the animals under his and his family's care are lifeless. It's hard to imagine that his capacity for empathy, compassion and co-existence with other forms of life hasn't been damaged by the cruel system he has been made part of.
11
Raising animals to eat is not only cruel but given the dire predictions for our future due to climate change, what will it take for us to shift to a plant based diet?
8
"Banning cigarettes in restaurants is legislative overreach at its worst."
There isn't anything that the government does that isn't considered "overreach at it's worst" by someone.
So, the question isn't whether or not some people will be affected by legislation, because that is true for all legislation. And it's not a question of whether or not some people's livelihoods will be affected by legislation, because that is also true for all legislation. The question is, does it move us, as a society, in the right direction?
Banning cigarettes in public places did. It upset a lot of people. A lot of people screamed about it. But, in the end, it had a very positive effect on our society.
Now, despite what some people may think, animals are a part of our society. They have feelings, emotions, social connections, and everyday we find out that they are more aware, and think deeper than we previously thought.
So, with that in mind, I'd like to ask one simple question. Do you think these ducks would support this ban? Or, to put it another way, what if it was people who were being force fed in order to please the appetites of a few well off ducks?
That may sound like a ludicrous question, but it's only ludicrous if you think of animals as inanimate unfeeling objects who's sole purpose is to be used for other people's "pleasure", or "enjoyment". And that opinion strikes me as not only unenlightened, but particularly naive, self-serving and cruel.
258
@Chicago Guy Finally, someone asks the right question. Thank you.
30
@Chicago Guy Tobacco farmers adapted, so can duck farmers.
34
@Chicago Guy The cigarette ban and the foie gras ban are completely different. When we banned cigarette advertising and smoking in public, it didn't stop the production or sale of tobacco. What this ban does is shut down the business in the state, putting people out of work - especially people in the poorest, most vulnerable parts of the state. I'm no foie gras fan but even I think this maybe overreach. And farmers and their workers will adjust... to not being employed at all. Farming in this country is being destroyed by tariffs and foreign oversupply. Farms are shutting down constantly. But as usual the people at the lowest end of the political totem pole get the short end of the stick. If foie gras was produced by Big Agra, this ban wouldn't have seen the light of day.
38
I am proud to be a 'foodie' - but my support of foie gras in this situation has less to do with eating it (as it's not very healthy), but more with giving people choice and protecting farmers. Chefs should be allowed to sell it or not sell it, and diners should be allowed to eat it - or not eat it - if they wish.
Let the market determine if an ingredient should become unmarketable. In this case, not only is this a case of government reaching too far, but it's also harming all these workers. And for what benefit?
Who, precisely, is benefiting from this? Just so that you and councilwoman Rivera don't SEE this ingredient on a menu?? How do you think chicken, pork, and cattle get treated in mass-produced 'farms'??? Do you think they are less cruel?
258
@Foodie So is your point that our treatment of animals doesn't matter at all, or that where there's any mistreatment of animals, all mistreatment of animals goes? Just trying to grapple with this incredibly depressing perspective and its extrapolation to a host of other social ills.
63
@Nick so your woke city perspective ignores the fact that the ducks are not harmed by the feeding? If you actually read the article you would have seen that the American Veterinary Medical Association takes a neutral position, citing a lack of evidence that birds are harmed by the process. Your position is very typical of the woke far-left, it is based more on virtue signaling than facts.
29
@GP Your argument is moot when you use worn out phrases such as "woke" and "virtue signaling". Also I did read the article and the full sentence is "The American Veterinary Medical Association takes a neutral position, citing a lack of evidence that birds are harmed by the process, though many veterinarians disagree". Perhaps instead of cherry picking phrases to suit you read and comprehend the full sentence.
27
This sounds like the arguments for the coal industry- and those workers get paid better. There's no reason to keep a bad industry just because people get paid for it. Otherwise we'd still have asbestos in every wall. Gov. Cuomo might want to consider grants to help farms adapt from foie gras to other types of agriculture and tax allowances for local farms to help minimize the difference between local farms and factory farms. Local farms are great for the environment and for reducing the chance of mass recalls such as salmonella. But we don't need to allow cruel industries to support local farming
481
@Leah I think this is different. If you don't like the idea of foie gras, don't eat it. Don't buy it. And - if you want to be very serious about it - don't go to restaurants who put it on their menus.
With your examples (coal today or asbestos in the past), as a consumer you may not have a choice or may not know precisely what your energy or siding is made from. By the way, I just checked on NYSESG's website and noticed that 4% of the energy that our house uses is from coal - it's not like I can tell them HEY STOP! I have no choice in the matter.
28
@Leah
OMG - coal is polluting and heating our planet, which has been burning before our eyes.
Coal usage is contributing to making our planet uninhabitable, forcing people from their homes and the death of up to a billion animals in Australia.
Foie gras is contributing to amazing meals and the "cruelty" is debatable.
11
@Ugh Foie gras isn't worse than any other factory meat, egg, or milk production.
7
I believe that if what you do for a living causes stress, containment and discomfort/torture to another living creature, especially for a luxury appetizer, your business should not exist. The argument that you make a living on that inhumanity is not a justified premise to continue to do it. Fur farms should be illegal too of course. So should trapping animals in leg-hold and conibear traps. We have a very dark history in our society of cruelty to animals for our personal pleasure. It needs to stop and I commend New York for taking this step.
197
@Dan well said! I wish more people understood this position.
13
@Dan I don't think most people would disagree with you. But to adopt that approach would mean shutting down almost all meat, poultry, and egg production in the U.S. Maybe we'd all get over that eventually, but we'd have to find a new way to produce vaccines without eggs, I suppose.
5
@Dan Seems like a no-brainer, doesn't it?
2
I’m more upset to learn that farm workers are making so little that 1/3 of them are living in shacks on the farm property, working from 6 AM to 1 AM, with what sounds like short breaks to sleep a bit. That is insane. How do you raise a family or help your kids with homework or find any leisure time?
The farm as a business can pivot to selling or producing other products, and all the secondary and tertiary businesses in the local economy will be fine.
Why is it ok for people to make so little that they can’t even rent an apartment?
I say ban more foods if it’s going to put an end to what sounds like effectively slave labor.
27
@FMJ "The farm as a business can pivot to selling or producing other products, and all the secondary and tertiary businesses in the local economy will be fine. "
You might choose to read the piece again - the local economy will NOT be able to "pivot" nearly as easily as you suggest. As you appear to live in NY, you should be willing to go to your legislators and lobby them to provide the people of this town and these farms more of your tax dollars to help them through this disruption. Else your choice of what not to allow others to eat will bankrupt the town and its people.
8
@FMJ I agree with stopping the production of foie gras but I also think that the most distressing problem is the meager wages and insecurity for the workers and owners in closing the farms. This doesn't go into effect until 2022. There is time for some creative thinking on how else to create a different market.
2
I’m not sure how slaughtering cows and chickens is some how less cruel?
13
@South Of Albany No one said it isn't but that's not the subject of this article.
3
“This,” he added, “is not where we should be shedding a tear.” ... "This," I want to say, "is not where government should be wasting our time and money."
6
This story speaks volumes about our values. Workers start at 6 am and finish at 1 am the next day to earn a wage that won't even pay rent. But apparently it's preferable to going back to Honduras, where they could be kidnapped and murdered.
It's not just animal cruelty that's going on here. If you can't pay a living wage to your workers, your business model is not working.
40
Some unanswered questions here.
1. Are critics projecting "the pain and suffering endured by the voiceless animals"?
2. Why didn't reporter Leland cite evidence of such suffering?
3. Do the ducks try to run and hide during feeding time?
4. How do meat and fish/seafood-eating critics write off the terror experienced by animals about to be butchered alive, the slow asphyxiation of creatures taken from the Earth's lakes, rivers, and oceans?
5. Are only vegans the only objectors entitled to take the moral high ground here?
6. Will ALL the workers be entitled to collect unemployment benefits?
7. Will the business owners be entitled to compensation for their losses, a la Trump's farm welfare program?
It's really not so easy, is it?
14
I think it tastes good. No worse than veal.
Exploited undocumented workers laboring in miserable conditions to produce a luxury product for rich people produced through cruelty to animals.
Capitalism is awesome.
40
This ban was made purely for political gain. Bravo to the Times for reminding us that legislation comes with consequences!
It’s a shame that the government cares more about ducks than children. Feel free to deny vaccines to your kids! As long as they can’t eat foie gras, it’s ok.
If we really cared about animal welfare we would ban the sale of all commercial meat products.
8
When will the city council ban chicken tenderloins and veal ?
11
The ban did not start the economic blight. While more investment in the region is needed, the Times should not frame its reporting as Ending Cruelty to Animals vs Jobs. Surely there are alternative food and service jobs that can be created.
Is that a young child worker in the photo?
4
If I prepared a gavage goose liver and a non-gavage goose liver .. Nobody would be able to tell the difference .. In the end, the only livers getting fat are the people who it eat foie gras.
3
Maybe the traders in banned fake French luxury items who sit on Fifth Avenue, just feet from the NYPD, can now carry foie gras as well? Or perhaps the out-of-state cigarette traders in Brooklyn can carry foie gras as well? Or the ladies who stand at Broadway and Houston saying "Louis Vuitton, Chanel" can now say "Louis Vuitton, Chanel, foie gras" before their partners lead you to the back room of a Chinatown store filled with fake merchandise? This silly law is going to create a black market that feeds the underworld on some level and doesn't feed the people who were doing this low-wage work.
1
Has Capitalism turned into a "morality police"?
Save the geese at the expense of hundreds of immigrant workers trying to feed their families. Liberal logic at its best.
4
I wonder why you didn't put the photo of the duck getting force fed at the top of the story? Instead it is buried towards the end. Can people not find a way to make a living without causing harm and distress to other living beings? These animals never see the light of day, crammed in a dark barn and get a feeding tube stuffed down their throats by a worker who is stressed and hurried. So wealthy people can chow down on one small part of the duck's body? Sometimes it's so hard to be a human.
23
Cruelty is cruelty. They might be impoverished immigrants who are slightly less odious than the people who buy this stuff and the people who own the farms but they don’t get a pass just because they’re poor. Torturing animals before you murder them isn’t ok even if the alternative is starving, which it isn’t. Find another job.
19
Vicious barbarism must be banned if humans are to have any sense of decency.
8
You can hang dollar signs on all the benefits but at the end of the day it’s torture. I have been hunting all my life and am particularly angry about how animals are treated just so some obese wine swilling foodie can feel titillated by his pairing. Anyone who enjoys meat, including fish, should at some point get up close and personal with where it comes from. Many of you will never eat another steak again. Respect animals.
19
Not feeling sorry for animal abusers losing their jobs.
5
Before anyone gets upset about the treatment of ducks, they should pay a visit to any slaughtering plant, be it hogs, cattle, chickens, lambs, etc. My best guess is they may become a vegan. The kill floor of a packing house is not for the faint of heart. Sometimes the animals scream and blood is everywhere, but humans are mostly carnivores feeding on the flesh of other animals similar to carnivores in the wild. Nothing like a juicy steak, provide you don't have to visualize how it arrived on your plate.
13
@allen roberts Why before they get upset? Are you saying that we must first eliminate all slaughter at once or just the bigger creatures first? What is your point?
@allen roberts Actually, the vast majority of humans are omnivores, but as a combination of herbivore and scavenger. As you suggest, very few humans do the dirty work of hunting and killing - we simply feast on the remains of others' kills.
1
Help local workers get cruelty-free jobs, but animal cruelty cannot be permitted.
7
@gailhbrown That begs the question - is it animal cruelty?
1
My family doesn’t eat veal nor foie gras for the reasons mentioned. How can we as a civilized society treat our animals so inhumanly simply to sate our palates? We surely can find alternatives that don’t inflict such pain and suffering. This is an opportunity to retool and redirect the foie gras industry.
And while we’re at it, let’s take a close look at our consumption of octopus. This animal is immensely intelligent, resourceful, fascinating, and soon to be endangered. I urge my fellow citizens to pass it up on the menu. They need our help.
4
Jobs are not more important than ethics. Period.
14
@Jack ... Unless it's your job, I would guess.
1
Inhumanity should not justified by citing the economic effects of its banishment. It's hard to believe there are so many consumers of the product, assuming many of them know the details of Foie Gras production.
8
The French (in France!) have been debating this for about 70 years and Brigitte Bardot would be appalled.
The farm must go find a new luxury product, or a way to capitalize without inflicting liver disease on ducks. It's all very 18th century. By the way, real foie gras is not a 'mousse', it's the solid liver of the duck.
8
I don't get the zero sum approach. This product can be produced ethically. Its being in in France right now, the birthplace foie gras!
4
It's a delicacy and once-in-a-while treat that lots of people can afford. An appetizer portion with good bread is a meal. For the economic impact cited in this article, and for the selfish reason that it's truly delectable, I'm sorry to see it go.
13
Well, so much of what we do and say must be politically correct these days that what we eat might as well be, too.
2
If society has issues with force feeding prisoners who go on hunger strikes - there have been lawsuits, protests and involvement from human rights activists over it and court orders are often necessary before forced feedings are allowed - then how can forcing a duck or goose to eat beyond what is normal be considered a humane and harmless process?
Locally produced food is popular now. Why not seek out organizations who can guide a co-op formation to market duck meat, eggs, cheese, etc. - foods that are a commonplace source of nutrition - instead of insisting upon providing a delicacy that is a non-essential indulgence. Putting all your eggs in one basket has a long history of disaster, after all.
I am a vegetarian, but do not have a problem with anyone eating meat so long as that animal was allowed a kind and reasonable life. Everything dies, what matters is the life that comes before.
18
@B Dawson
The animals might have a good life but the day they’re slaughtered makes up for that good life.
Actually you’re wrong. The time of death is the most important as we will all know when that day comes.
Even Timothy Leary made that point...”Dying is the most important thing we do.”
1
The cruelty inflicted on these animals is immeasurable. I am from rural NYS. Born and raised. I feel for all the small towns dying all over the state on a daily basis but if having a delicacy few can afford, produced in a very inhumane way is what is needed to keep them going then I say RIP to these towns.
33
The risks of free enterprise are many,but so are the opportunities. I am glad to see the practice stopped,and the chance for new businesses to thrive
11
Fois gras is delicious, but I haven't eaten it in over a decade. It's not just a matter of giving the geese more food to fatten them up. I saw photographs of the treatment. The abdomen extrudes from the body, and can literally sit on the ground in front of them. It's appalling.
25
@persona Thank you for putting conscience and kindness before your own appetite. I've been working on doing the same by transitioning to a vegan diet. It shouldn't always be about us.
2
The headline isn't quite accurate. NYC banned the sale of foie gras produced by force-feeding birds, not the sale of all foie gras.
These businesses don't need to close. They simply need to adapt to 21st-century norms around animal cruelty and produce their product in an ethical manner.
26
@Scott
How does a restaurant comply with such a nuanced ban?
Does the city provide some sort of global certification of foie gras producers that complies with the city's definition of "force-feeding"?
4
@Scott Duck liver from normally raised animals is different from foie gras from forced feeding. Duck liver is delicious, foie gras is a different product. Chefs can use duck liver in tasty but different dishes. People who want real foie gras can get it elsewhere. US veal today is not the veal of 50 years ago. We have adjusted our tastes.
7
@Scott
How is a sentient being killed ethically?
So taxpayers are supposed to feel sorry for people who illegally entered and stay in the country, and for whom the struggling and shrinking middle class heavily finances social services - healthcare, nutrition assistance, education, etc . . . Limited funds for needy elderly citizens and citizens' children increasingly go to the illegal community and their offspring.
Taxpayers are supposed to feel sorry for the employers - whose businesses we effectively subsidize - who illegally employ non-citizens? If consumer demand is insufficient for a company to operate legally and profitably, its owners should direct their efforts to another venture.
Lastly, taxpayers are supposed to feel sorry for Ms. Leon, who illegally entered the country in 1997 and speaks little English. Twenty-three years and she hasn't bothered to even learn the language?
Until the government enforces immigration laws and penalizes - rather than enables - employers, the societal strains will only worsen with unfortunate consequences for our long-term future.
28
@Sharon The article suggests that only some of the workers might be undocumented. The owners of local businesses in the value network are presumably legal.
The discussion of losing farms and all of the directly and indirectly associated jobs is not a documentation discussion.
4
@Sharon I take it you belong to a native tribe and are living on a reservation. If you listen to trump, you should be demanding his removal from office because he mangles the English language every time he opens his mouth.
And, I'm sure you will be the first in line when the jobs that Americans don't apply for suddenly come open. If Americans don't take the jobs that are needed to produce whatever product, how long would it take for a good part of that entire production--including the parts you do like--to fail?
14
@Sharon
Excuse me, but the employees that I personally know are PROUD, LEGAL, TAX PAYING citizens of these United States of America, some of whom own their own property and homes, and spend their hard earned money to send their children to college and graduate school. They pay LOCAL taxes, and spend in the community—which is what we need. They are a valued part of the Sullivan county economy and community as a whole. Come down and check out our Main streets—so many shuttered stores, a few now re-opened as bodegas and Latino restaurants—employing more locals, and bringing much needed life back to the towns. Right now—Sullivan County needs to keep the tourism industry that it has-and hopefully get it to grow, and keep the farms we have.
Isn't that what this country is all about?
15
By this reasoning, child labor should never have been banned, there should be no animal cruelty laws, modern farm machinery should never have existed, cars should be scrapped to bring back jobs in feeding, housing and training horses, the list goes on. Yes, some poverty level jobs will be lost, but others will take their place. Job losses due to changes in business, society and laws have always happened. People move on and get new jobs. It’s called progress.
47
Didn't the Confederates make the same argument? "My way of life is based on incredible cruelty. Don't take it away from me."
This article vastly underplays the cruelty of the operation, and aims for ridiculous heart-tugging with its story of asylum seekers. You could (unfortunately) find similar stories in virtually every industry. That's a much larger problem, not one caused by a foie gras ban. This article is so clearly biased that it's hard to know what to criticize first.
104
From this article, it looks to me like producing foie gras is inhuman to both the animals and the workers.
70
@Steve not what the workers said at all. Read the article.
1
@Bx
I suspect the workers have no clue how they're being exploited.
6
It’s unconscionable to torture animals just so they taste better. Hundreds, maybe thousands of people lose their jobs every day because of changing markets. Think of the coal industry. Should we pollute our lungs by burning coal to save jobs in the coal industry? Should we pollute our morals by needlessly abusing animals?
85
The city council has no business banning foie gras sales. This is legislative overreach at its worst. Lifestyle-shaping is not an acceptable activity of government. (Ditto banning the sale of fur.)
There’s absolutely no connection between the production of foie gras, and any existing problem that directly involves the city. Problems and issues that involve the city are the only things that the city council has any business becoming involved in.
Banning production of foie gras in the city would be fine (although I doubt it has ever been produced within the borders of the city at any time in which the modern city council has been in existence).
I’ve never had foie gras, don’t have any interest in it, mostly because of the treatment of the animals (although I’ve heard it’s good), and this is a personal choice I have made. In this context I would never seek to impose my personal beliefs on others.
This is nothing more than local legislators (specifically Corey Johnson) trying to puff up their own records for future political ambitions. If some half-wit from Massachusetts wants to tell people how to live, he ought to head back there to do it.
187
@Ben Chicago passed an ordinance like this once. Everyone just ignored it. Eventually it was repealed.
15
@Ben "The city council has no business banning foie gras sales....overreach at its worst."
Overreach for whom? The local farms producing this ghastly menu item don't seem to understand the pain and suffering endured by the voiceless animals. Which came first, the duck or the egg? This is a classic case of an industry that should cease, and, like coal, exists for pure profits that workers will never see enough compensation. Let's look to the future.
47
@Ben Governments absolutely have the business of looking after the welfare of animals. Do you support repealing the bans on dog fighting?
51
So we should treat our poultry kiindly before we slaughter and eat it??
8
In a word, yes.
10
@tom
Of course we should. And as long as we're reaching, we should show as much concern over the treatment of our incarcerated citizens as we show our caged chickens.
11
@tom
In a word, yes.
Read the story of, or watch the well-depicted movie about Temple Grandin, played by Caire Danes, well-known autistic animal-rights researcher who wrote the book on human practices for beef slaughter, and why that process is better for the animals killed, the people who butcher them, the people who eat them, and the industries that buy the meat products/byproducts.
7
In 2021, with a different and more humane President, the United States will take either major or modest steps to catch up with Norway and Denmark and other European countries where there's universal health care and a minimum wage. The issue isn't foie gras; it's income inequality. The author of this article seems to think it's just fine to have first worlders pay thousands for a restaurant meal while families in poverty suffer every day. It's not. Yes, force feeding ducks to fatten their livers is barbaric, but the real problem is that those of us with discretionary incomes, and especially those among us who make millions or billions, are getting away with murder, not of ducks, which will be slaughtered for food either way (and yes, I strongly disapprove of force feeding), but of human beings who have less than they should because too few have too much.
21
The city council picks and chooses what animal rights and cruelty they want to highlight I don’t see any city council members calling for a boycott of Puerto Rico even though the cruel sport of cock fighting is legal there. Oh no can’t take a stand on that might upset to many constituents best worry about ducks upstate. Who cares about those workers or town they can’t vote here plus NYC always looks down at rural New Yorkers. First ban fracking for the environment and deprive upstate with good paying jobs now attack the farming community. If you don’t like (I think it tastes gross) don’t eat it and if enough people find it cruel then the industry will die out on its own. This is yet another reason my fellow Democrats are losing the middle of the country. Stop tell everyone how to space and think you expect everyone to respect your way of life but do not respect others.
12
Where one finds the brutalization and exploitation of animals one will often find the brutalization and exploitation of people. Framing this debate around the white salvation of brown migrants ignores and obscures the stakes, including the decades-long history of these farms' -- Hudson Valley and La Belle -- exploitation of a desperate work force in a desperate situation. Make no mistake, Hudson Valley and La Belle are not advocates for their workers, and they have a long lobbying history at the NYS level -- something which this article does not bother to explore -- to show for it.
Please don't be confused: white people are not saving brown people through labor exploitation. Least among them, the shameful proprietors of Hudson Valley and La Belle farms in Sullivan County, and the distributors of their products. It's time to dismantle the myth that we cannot have a strong economy without the exploitation of animals -- human and non-human alike. We can do far better; banning foie gras is just a start.
57
@Nick You make a great point. When I was learning about domestic violence as a young medical student, one thing they taught me that has always stuck in my head is if the (almost-always) wife/ girlfriend/ ex-wife/ female partner is being abused, it is also likely the children, elders, and handicapped members of the household might also be subject to the same.
2
Maybe the workers can learn to write code? This way they can compete for jobs with the soon displaced coal miners. Progressives will have everyone writing code driving wages down given the glut of code writers. Progressives have such brilliant ideas.
signed, foie gras lover
12
Why, exactly, are ducks in need of "humane treatment?"
They're ducks, right?
Why, exactly, are farmers (humans) denied "humane treatment?"
They're humans, right?
Sorry. But for me, the "feelings" of ducks (which are being created and nurtured for the slaughter and eating) being more important than the livelihood of these folks is obscene.
28
Find a way to make money that doesn’t actively involve torture and then I’ll support your livelihood.
12
When people say, there will be none to do these jobs, I refer them to this other NYT article. Apparently legal local workers were found at better salaries, improving local unemployment statistics.
"After ICE Raids, a Reckoning in Mississippi’s Chicken Country
A series of federal immigration raids swept up nearly 700 undocumented workers, creating opportunities — and some ethical concerns — for American-born residents."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/28/us/mississippi-ice-raids-poultry-plants.html
10
Too bad we have to terrorize vulnerable people in order to provide opportunities for the locals. I guess that's how the zero game works, dudnit?
1
@Bonnie Huggins
If doing something illegal causes you to be terrorised, who made the original choice please?
Congress can address these laws pragmatically and copy those of countries hose laws function better than we do. (Look no further than Canada)
Point system based immigration. work permits, temporary residence ... all the solutions are out there to be voted and enacted.
3
The tyranny of New York City's liberal glitterati: duck farms far from the city will close down and farm workers will lose their jobs in order to give some very rich diners one less menu choice.
13
Sorry, but this article seems a bit contrived. Surely there are other ways to market duck products and still make a living. I enjoy duck meat in many dishes, but force-fed duck liver has never been a high priority of mine.
18
With all the food needed in this country, can't these people who depend on this farm learn and adapt? The soil in this part of the country is just begging for sustainable, organic farming, and or any number of other things that support both land and people. The time of abusing animals for our pleasure should end.
51
Hey restaurateurs, move upstate!
4
A classic “first world problem”
8
@stevevelo Violence and exploitation unfortunately happen against human and non-human animals everywhere.
1
This is a disgustingly abusive treatment of a animal. A grace period? Did they have a grace period for other laws?
36
@Paulie
Unfortunately there was a one year grace period in Florida after we voted to end dog racing here. Absolutely ridiculous.
2
This is a one sided article. These farms need to adapt. They have two whole years to find something less cruel to do. As do the workers. Clearly the firm hired by the farmers is doing its job by getting the NYT to write a piece completely ignoring the inherent cruelty involved in producing foie gras
60
What's with the Boston hat?
Did anyone else notice the $375 for a porterhouse steak? Is that actually possible, or a glaring error of the NYT? Is that for one person? What would one pay here for a bottle of wine? What would a dinner for 4, each with a starter and a steak, and say 2 bottles of wine, cost? Let's assume $500 for a bottle of wine, to match the other prices. The meal without a tip or desert comes to around $2600. Say $3000 with a tip. Does this restaurant fill tables? Are these typical New York prices?
16
@Leon Joffe Yes, $375 is correct. The Porterhouse is listed on the menu as "for the table", it normally serves two. There are many nice options well under $500 on the wine list. My impression is the restaurant is doing well. These are FAR from typical New York prices. This is a special restaurant in a unique city. I am deep in flyover country and a 45 day, dry-aged Porterhouse is $77 at my local, luxury steak joint. You can cheap and well in NYC, but not here, obviously.
3
@Leon Joffe It's correct: https://thebeatriceinn.com/winter/
2
Shut it down. Sick and tired of animal exploitation.
58
@ricksgirl But the human exploitation here is okay?
4
How do the 99.99999% of communities and farms that do not produce foie gras manage to survive. Maybe the reporter should have spent some time looking at that? Every time we want to change our world for the better, whether it means getting rid of coal and petrochemicals, poisonous chemicals and pesticides, flourocarbons etc. we have to hear about the lowly worker producing this garbage and how will he/she now survive. What next, a story on the poor immigrants from the Dominican Republic who only survive by training roosters for cock-fighting. Oh the suffering!
56
@EME most of those 99.999999 of family and small (v. agribusiness) farming communities are NOT surviving either . . . .
5
@EME the “99.99999” percent family farms are NOT surviving. They are being bought by Big Ag, who treat their millions of animals far worse than these little farms treat their ducks.
5
Foie gras is disgusting. I don't care who eats it or who creates it. Time for it to pass into the past. Also, we didn't seem to mind when we banned coal mining in certain parts of the U.S., upending lives and whole communities, did we? Why should we suddenly become picky now? People will do what people do when they lose jobs and industries--find or create new ones. Everyone is doing it these days.
25
gavage of ducks does not cause black lung disease. find a better anolagy.
1
The whole point of luxury goods taxes and bans is to shift human productive potential away from service to the rich toward service to the common good. There's work to be done for the many; we shouldn't waste human productive potential in service to the unneeding few.
8
The ban was nonsense. It's farmed animal. It's a French culture. It's great for farmers and foie gras taste delicious. NYC council should unban this. It's bad for restaurant industry and tourism too.
27
@Asian man I’m not sure how restaurants serving $375 steaks would be hurt if they quit offering foie gras.
3
@Asian man Slavery used to consist of owned, sold, and farmed humans. Slavery was also a part of culture. People also worried about the ban being bad for industry. Was the end of it nonsense?
3
I'm always glad to hear that any operation that is abusive to animals fails. I hope I live long enough to see all operations including dairy, egg, fish, porcine, beef and all the rest shut down and the owners go broke.
23
@john michel
Moi aussi! Thank you!!
Virtue signalling over all!
In France the geese line up for 'force-feeding'.
And I suspect that the comment below about DeBlasio, Prince among men, having eaten it and continuing to eat it is correct.
19
@Jonathan See my comment about learned helplessness.
2
Their whole premise is that they have an economy built on the torture of animals and therefore it should be allowed.
31
We humans are so entitled. Entitled to think we should be able to smack our lips on the tortured remains of some animal. Entitled to think we should always have that job of raising that tortured animal. No, I'm not a vegan, but we should be looking at more sustainable practices for our food.
51
@BambooBlue It's not even an *important* protein source- chicken or beef is an affordable way for people to survive. No one needs foie gras- it's an unhealthy luxury. These birds are suffering for our enjoyment. I've never even seen foie gras on a menu out here in PA- it's not that important a food, you can live without it.
5
Eating Foie Grois as well as wearing fur is unethical, by any reasonable standard. So the city council finally did something right. All the New Yorkers shedding crocodile tears for immigrants are the same wealthy New Yorkers that are content to exploit immigrants for whatever they see fit, whether as nannies or Lyft drivers or whatever while paying them below the federal minimum wage. They don't care about workers, they care about the maintenance of their decadent, immoral lifestyles. $28 for an appetizer? $375 for a steak? These are the one percent crushing the rest of the country - any pain they claim to feel is the liberation of others - human or animal. Undoubtedly, the workers will find new underpaid work for farmers that bemoan how they barely make it.
30
I was feeling for those families and that community until I go to the photo of a Red Sox fan shoving a tube down a duck's mouth. Doing that to an animal for the last three weeks of their lives?
I hope the workers find other jobs and I'm sure they will feel better about themselves when the do. I hope the community finds another means of supporting education and proving for addict recovery but I'm not the American Veterinary Medical Association. I cannot take a neutral position on that despicable act.
After seeing that image, I recalled the only time I sampled foie gras. It was wonderful but I'll never taste it again.
27
It is shameful that the Council members ruined people's lives just so they can feel better about themselves. The fact that that couldn't be bothered to even check the conditions but relied on statements by groups that have promoted falsities is appalling.
9
Why is anyone more concerned about the rights of ducks than the survival of struggling humans in an economic wasteland?
32
@Sylvia Calabrese Because the humans have a choice.
8
So then, shall we repeal laws that punish meth cookers and heroin dealers because many people depend on those markets for their livings?
In the past, French producers used to nail their ducks' feet to the floor and include some ground glass in the "food" forced into their guts, believing that the irritation further enhanced the overgrowth of the diseased livers prized by epicures.
26
We will continue to enjoy it here in Washington state, thank you.
4
You know what? Sometimes the right thing to do isn't necessarily in the 'best'interest' of the human beings involved. Not only human lives are valuable, and other creatures that are at our so-called mercy deserve to be treated with kindness and dignity. As for the people who think these birds are well-treated, I suggest they try being force-fed with a tube shoved down their throats 3 times a day for three weeks. Only humans would come up with something so repulsive and vicious for the purposes of their own gluttonous enjoyment.
42
A typical government solution. Interfere with a market, destroy jobs. Why should the government chose to interfere with the consumers choice of food?
1
@Chris So I suppose you don’t approve of the government inspections to ensure that your fruits, vegetables, and meats are free of dangerous, potentially life-threatening bacteria. Sorry, but your freedom to eat what or where you want does not trump my right to eat clean food in a filth-free restaurant.
5
@Mike L, The foie grass ban is a NYC only law, not NY State.
4
NYC apparently has $500 million to forgive loans voluntarily taken out to buy a taxi medallion, at the same time it is going out of its way to destroy the all ready difficult lives of people 90 miles away.
7
@Mike
Yes, the loan forgiveness was ridiculous. If the lenders did something wrong, they should be squeezed. If not, everyone else should not be writing that check.
2
Why is it that so often the "luxury" prices of certain goods really devolve into the reality of low wages for some poor disadvantaged minority group. Even forgetting the poor ducks, this is a prime example of the inequality of economic opportunity among our fellow citizens. We forget them at our peril. Let us all hope that the talented daughter makes it out of this Hobsons choice.
11
I have only heard how cruel the entire process of obtaining fois gras is. When I hear others trying to claim it's not inhumane all I can think is they are trying to paint a rosy picture, much as factory farming wants opacity in how they treat animals. Pointing out that factory farming is cruel and inhumane does not make fois gras any more appealing.
I'm surprised by all these comments that indicate people are ok with this.
29
And what about that $375 Porterhouse steak? Does that come from farms just a couple hours away? Is that happy cow, grass fed, pasture-raised at a family farm?
I'm always sad when I hear about small towns drying up - the loss of whole families and histories should sadden anyone.
Situations like this certainly speak to the need for diversifying the family farm business.
And shame on the legislators who did not actually go and tour the town and facilities.
17
I'm not sure force-feeding ducks is more inhumane than asking humans to work repetitive-task jobs for $11/hr.
63
@PeteG
Allow yourself to be force fed and then you’ll have an answer
1
@PeteG The humans have a choice.
I've witnessed "gavage" (force-feeding) of ducks and geese and can say that the animals don't seem disturbed by it (at least if done properly). They made no effort to avoid the farmer doing it and they simply walked away afterwards. Of course, if conditions were different they could have been harmed. The devil is in the details, as always. It's clear eating cirrhotic duck liver isn't for everyone, for various reasons, cost being only one of them, but given how farm animals are treated in general this isn't any worse. Ever see- or smell- a pork farm? How about a chicken farm?. I daresay there'd be a revolution if ALL meat was banned. Not that that would be a bad thing for people's health or the planet, but it's just not going to happen. So it's not reasonable to ban production of foie gras to soothe the conscious of people who think they're "saving" these ducks. Sorry, but they're no worse off than the rest of the animals raised for meat that the vast majority of us are quite ready to eat on a daily basis.
260
@LenR. Well banning all meat would be bad. According to recent studies vegan brains are smaller than meat eaters.
20
@Ryan Bingham
Let's see your evidence.
15
@LenR. There are certainly tremendous issues in our food system, from worker exploitation to deplorable animal welfare standards, but that is not an excuse to avoid addressing problems in smaller sectors in the system. The cruelty of this practice has been highlighted for decades, both through journal publications and among the scientific community. What's more, this foie gras ban is hardly a surprise seeing as how select companies, cities, and countries have been doing so for over 20 years.
At this point, I wouldn't agree that foie gras ban is simply soothing the social conscious, but is instead coming from a greater awareness of the quality and standards of agribusiness, as well as its long-term sustainability. This ban coincides with today's expanding movement away from animal products (especially dairy and red meat), which is further evidenced by the intense lobbying by dairy/meat businesses and corporation for ag-gag laws.
79
Recently read about farms in France where ducks forage on a range of organic plants, not force fed. Let's try that.
25
@TBB sorry, it was Spain. https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/08/01/487088946/this-spanish-farm-makes-foie-gras-without-force-feeding
11
@TBB
Go ahead. Try it out. Or don't eat foie gras. Your choice.
5
I have been acquainted with the employees of Hudson Valley Foie Gras Farm in Bethel for close to 40 years. I know them to be hard working, tax paying families, and productive members of the Town of Bethel & Sullivan County. I have had the opportunity to tour the farm on numerous occasions unannounced, and have never seen any cruelty to the ducks. The employees are also well trained in proper animal handling.
The closing of these farms will be devastating to the employees, their families, and the community at large. I do not eat foie gras, and you don't have to either. But don't jeopardize the livelihood of this community. The legislatures should not enact this ban, especially without seeing firsthand for themselves how the farm operates.
177
@Ira Liberman you are the problem - ducks are not food or sources therein.
2
@ScottB
Ducks are indeed a source of meat.
2
If folks think "force fed" is a horror, perhaps they should consider how the meat industry continues to produce. Shall I say, "force bred"?
Either one has a system of meat production that is as respectful and aware of the animal as possible or one has a system that simply puts production and profit over everything. There is no choice of "no meat", as much as some folks might hope for it.
So, let's go for respect and honor for those animals that feed us.
Buy local. Know your farmers, your meat purveyors. Demand they be respectful in their work. And then pay the price you must to have such dedicated and respectful folks doing a hard job....for you.
That or grow your own and be peaceful in your own little world. Most of us (you) can't do it. Just saying...
40
@DKM
Seems the greatest respect would be to not exploit and commodify the life of another creature and then kill it
1
Why isn't the city council banning beef, chicken and pork sales, all of which result in much more animal cruelty and environmental destruction?
91
Quel carnard, and it brings to mind the French newspaper, Le Canard Enchaine (The Shackled Duck) which continues to roll off the presses in Paris.
Duck is popular in certain American households, and you will find it most likely on a menu, not only in cities, but in eating establishments in rural regions.
Foie gras, and mousse de carnard is a luxury in France, rich to the palate, leading to a case of indigestion if not eaten in moderation.
What is the difference between a chicken and a duck? There are pressed ducks in Chinatown in New York City, and rotisserie chickens are spreading across the country. An Elder in the Hudson Valley tells this visitor that 40%, or more of privately-owned farms have closed these last few years.
There should be 'no lifting' of the ban on foie gras, and without abusing animal rights, there is an ongoing need for eggs, cheese, confit de canard for the epicureans in our midst, while low-wage immigrant laborers are bracing for malnutrition, and other ills, living on a diet of candy and soda at the convenience stores.
This is not ducky, but serious, and it's time to find viable solutions, without goosing the industrious workers who provide the demanding population with products they take for granted, while the laborers live in houses with cardboard panes, to keep insulated with their children from an increasingly cold frigid world.
9
@Miss Ley Just so you know. “Canard” is a slang term for newspaper in French, and the name of that newspaper has absolutely nothing to do with real ducks.
4
@Kevin ,
Thank you for this added clarification, and Le Canard enchaine has been the cause of many ragots and ill-measured cartoons since its first publication release long ago.
I'm happy about the foie gras ban. It's an unnecessary and cruel practice. When times change, industries have to follow suit.
And I'm tired of industries, like farms, getting free subsidies (like $10K of feed) and then complaining about government and voting for Trump. If we are going to have cut-throat capitalism it should be the same for everyone: turn a profit or shut down.
If your company isn't profitable without handouts, you need to find a new line of work.
According to the article the industry puts $300K into the county school system but I'll bet there is way more than $300K in subsidies going to the county. Put that money directly to the school system instead.
106
I think the Foie Gras ban is an attempt by politicians who refuse to do anything about massive tax abatements for billionaires or crumbling schools, among other things, to try and grab some faux progressive cred.
7
"A foie gras ban... and slaps wealthy gourmands"
John Leland since when is it a requirement to be "wealthy" to enjoy good food? Do we categorize lovers of classical music who go to the Met wealthy? Is someone who has saved for many years to buy an expensive car of their dreams now also stamped as being wealthy?
Foie gras is not a luxury dish. It's a scarce commodity that some people, like yours sincerely, really enjoy and am at times willing to pay for.
84
@Steen You can get a ticket to the Met for $25. How much does foie gras cost?
5
@Steen With al the wonderful food available for consumption, you are moaning about the loss of being able to consume a diseased liver from a cruelly treated sentient creature. Sad.
9
@David Weintraub Amusingly, as noted in the article, you can eat foie gras for $28.
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. . . sells about $28 million of foie gras per year, and a third of it ends up in New York City. The other farm, LaBelle, sells about $10 million a year, . . . "
sales do not equal profit but it would be interesting to know what profit the owners make as contrasted to the wages they pay
people lose jobs, by jobs going overseas, by jobs being transferred to machines vs. man, for other reasons
job loss is not always enough to argue against laws and regulations
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There is a time honored tradition of the leaders of brutal, oppressive, or inhumane business practices, who often intentionally exploit the least economically mobile and most vulnerable, and then *further* exploit these peoples' stories as a way to justify practices that should have never been allowed in the first place. Think about the jobs!
USA's global imperialist operations employ thousands of folks, including underprivileged farm boys from dying industry towns, for whom the military offered the only bus ticket out of town. That's sad, but it in no way diminishes the primary moral imperative that we reign in our expensive, useless, homicidal, counter-productive jingoism around the world.
I agree with the folks pointing out that our moralism pertaining to animals and food industry has been applied in extremely selective ways, while we've turned a blind eye to other horrors of the business. Even so, that doesn't negate the purpose of incremental reforms like this. Otherwise, there is no way to start on a righteous path.
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You lost me at “USA’s globalist imperialist operations... .”
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@T - He's referring to the Perpetual War for Fun and Profit that we've practiced virtually from the day of our founding - See; Chickenhawk George's random invasions of small, weak ME nations that had done us no harm. The result was Big Bucks for the MIC and it's coupon-clipping investors at the cost of thousands of American lives, uncounted numbers of dead/maimed, "collaterally damaged" Iraqis, the destruction of Iraq's infrastructure and the draining of trillions of dollars from our country's piggy bank.
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From every indication in this story, foie gras eaters are not paying enough for their fattened livers. $28 is not much to keep whole communities in subservience!
But this is truly just a postcard of everything that's wrong with industrial farming and food production, concentration of wealth, destabiliized, transient labor, dependent local governments and communities.
At least China's birth rate is the lowest in 6 decades. Small favors.
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This ban is just another major over reach by NY government. Add it to the cash bail fiasco and Regulation 187 (which most of you have no idea about but it’s the most ambiguous ‘suitability’ law in the nation and will cause life insurance sales in NY to plummet thus leaving thousands of citizens without needed coverage). Of course there’s also the Paid Family Leave law that perhaps 1 in 86 people will ever use but it has quadrupled DBL costs for business owners throughout the State. There is now a 6 billion (with a B) State deficit because so many people with money have fled NY to warmer, friendlier financial climates like Florida (Carl Icahn for example). Yes, the liberal progressives in power in Albany are driving the State into the ground.
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@Mike L You are spot on, Mike L. Couldn't agree more. I am one of those who fled to Miami. While every city and state have their issues, at least here I have a generous Homestead Exemption, no state income tax, lower utility costs, and ALL crimes continue to be prosecuted. More importantly, I'm not left with the feeling that the socialists are coming for me to stick their hands in my pocket to take everything I've worked and saved for my entire life. No regrets.
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@Mike L And yet New York maintains the third highest per capita GDP in the country. Here in Idaho, where our governor touts us as one of the least regulated states during his visit with Trump recently, per capita GDP in second lowest in the country and went down from a year ago.
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Here’s a compromise, Mike. We’ll keep Foie Gras legal, but you can only eat it from a tube shoved down your throat. Sound good?
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The cost is a red herring justifying a law that should not have been passed. Twenty-eight dollars is not that much. Though not something most people would dine on regularly, foie gras is an affordable luxury that anyone could enjoy once twice in their lives, one that I'm sure de Blasio has enjoyed himself and, through his ability to travel, will eat many times in the future.
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"Twenty eight dollars is not that much..."
Your disconnect from the economic reality of millions of others in the United States is truly spectacular.
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"The two-year grace period before the ban takes effect, she has said, gives the farms time to adjust." What a joke. Adjust to what? Living on welfare?
AI causes unemployment as does animal rights. I am for both these things. What I am against is upending people's livelihoods without giving them any options. New York should be paying these people to get some sort of retraining in another profession.
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Of all the things we do to animals, the extinction of entire species being just one example, force-feeding domesticated waterfowl seems one of the least bad.
There are a few moves the industry could make, such as housing the birds in groups and not using a steel pipe in gavage, that would make the whole process more humane, but I would think there are other areas that are more worthy of attention.
I've eaten foie gras a few times and it's a magnificent food. The individuals interviewed for this article are about to suffer greatly.
It's stunning that not a single one of the 51 council members could bring themselves to make a fact-finding trip to one of these farms.
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@PDXBruce I've seen this defeatist mindset among proponents of foie gras production throughout this comments section which I feel is misguided. We can advocate for more than one cause, big or small, and push our elected officials to do the same. Any industry that relies on the abuse of animals, including force-feeding, is worthy of attention. There is immeasurable suffering endured by the billions of animals killed for our food, and the foie gras industry is just one glaring example of that. As the sole beneficiaries of their death, it is our moral obligation to, at the very least, give some consideration to the quality of their living moments.
Also, the workers interviewed for this article are not about to suffer greatly--they have suffered greatly. Work 6AM to 1AM is inhumane. The free housing does not make up for the lackluster pay and often dehumanizing work they must do; I would speculate the free housing is a way to keep workers "on call" while being able to claim this housing as tax-deductibles. Given that foie gras bans have been happening over the past couple decades, this is hardly a surprise for employers, especially for larger operations.
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@PDXBruce
"Of all the things we do to animals .... force-feeding domesticated waterfowl seems one of the least bad."
It's not just the force-feeding, which is certainly very unpleasant. Imagine how you'd feel if your liver was 10 times its normal size, each cell crammed with fat droplets it could not handle.
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