Elizabeth, where is your backbone? The issue of telling Bernie that he lied to her on stage is that it makes her look like she can’t take the heat. That does not bode well if she were the nominee against trump - the bully in chief who will say and do anything to get re- elected.
21
Warren, like Bernie, might appoint good non petrodollar warriors but seems attached to gratuitous statements about having brothers in the military, and so on.
10
They really need to put this behind them.
To me it looks like a misunderstanding. Sanders was talking about the difficulty of running against Trump. Something he said sounded to Warren like he was saying she couldn't win but he honestly believes that he didn't mean that just that it would be very difficult.
And of course it's not sexist to think that a lot of voters are sexist. Sanders does believe that he can motivate tens of millions of habitual non-voters to come out & vote which is rather optimistic so perhaps Warren is just emulating his optimism in h she can overcome American sexism.
10
Let's see if I can find a nice way to say this....Warren has this little credibility problem. So she decides to take CNN's bait and gaslight one of the most trusted politicians on the planet, expecting people to believe that Bernie Sanders is some kind of sexist pig. I don't THINK so, Liz.
She is about to reap the wrath of the liberal side of the party, from which she has received most of her support. This is dangerous, but I predict he poll numbers and fundraising are about to plummet, Sanders's numbers will proportionately increase and he will ultimately become the nominee. Good. Thanks CNN !!
26
Putting aside the emotional investment that comes with supporting a Presidential candidate, Senator Warren and Senator Klobuchar have records of moving agenda items that Senator Sanders does not.
Anyone but Trump and taking back the US Senate is the goal.
11
@Mary Elizabeth Lease Right, looks like she works well with her senatorial colleagues. Here she is publicizing details of a private conversation with one who is supposedly her friend! Bernie's non-existent record is a meme. It's publicly available for anyone who wants to inform themselves.
10
I'm all for an educated, talented woman to be President, but Warren isn't it. Klobuchar is by far the better prepared, and more electable of the two, and Warren basically pointed that out herself in her snide comment about electability of the candidates on stage.
But to the meat of the issue, whether it's Sanders or Warren not telling the truth, it doesn't matter. Both are too progressive to win a general election. My pick would be for Yang or Klobuchar, or even Mayor Pete. But I'm just a disaffected Republican, someone the Democratic party seemingly gave up on long ago
Nominate Sanders or Warren and voters like me will be giving you Trump 2020 solely to save ourselves from wasteful, economically unfeasible, progressive agendas.
9
@PB
Shhhhhhh. Dont tell them that. They might just listen to you.
1
He should have replied: "I think you called me that first by perpetuating a lie".
11
@Dustin
were you in the room with Senators Warren and Sanders when they had their private meeting?
it would appear you are perpetuating a lie.
5
Can a woman beat Trump? Can a woman become President? Can America elect a woman? These are two questions, one of which may have been implied in an exchange between the two awhile back. They are certainly not sexist or misogynist, as Warren and her camp seem to be implying, but rather a cynical view (held by many women) that America is misogynist as well as racist.
But Warren proves here that she is not a good politician or candidate, although she might be an amazing POTUS, and she makes me uncomfortable with her approach. Because that approach might lose to Trump. Being "right" is like a husband being "right" in his squabble with his wife, as he has already lost.
2
I'm concerned that the NYT lacks objectivity re: Warren.
The coverage here may be somewhat slanted towards EW.
The recent headline of M. Goldberg's column (EW is the Democrats Unity Candidate) comes straight from the Warren Campaign HQ.
The NYT's favoring of one candidate over the other was not really acceptable in 2016 and its not acceptable now.
By the way, Bernie is not my preferred candidate.
14
@Michael
The NYT lacks objectivity re: everything. Especially where trump is concerned.
9
Sanders and company doing the same thing he did to HRC in 2016. Once again, the provoker is given the pass while the woman who is responding to being provoked is blamed. Our society has some sick, stupid attitudes where it comes to women and women do not help at all. We need a women to represent this country. I'm sick of all the billionaires and white men thinking they know more about me that I do and what I need. Move aside. Sanders is not going to be Prez, ever. I don't care how Iowa votes.
10
If you listen to the audio, Bernie did not actually say the word "liar" so why are NYT and CNN both reporting he did?
10
Stop it, you two.
Just stop it.
7
Bernie was very gentle in his defense of himself. Shame on Warren for being duplicitous.
18
This kind of garbage from candidates is how Dems will blow the next election. Bernie isn't at the top of my list right now, but I don't for one moment think that Bernie believes that a woman can't be POTUS.
Liz's tacky attacks on both Bernie and Pete have moved her from the top of my list to 2nd to the bottom, along with Joe Biden, (who I will not vote for). There's no room in my mind for Dem candidates who attack other Dems. Liz should be attacking Donald Trump and Republican policies - that's what the election is about. IMO, she is a disappointment who has handled her candidacy very badly indeed.
13
This whole accusation against Bernie - a year after the alleged statement - exposed Elizabeth Warren as the shrill vindictive conniving woman that she really is. Her choice to engage in a post-debate confrontation was a result of quick political calculus.
She chose poorly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIitjokEJwg
19
United we stand, divided we fall. I can foresee Warren being chosen and all of Bernie's die-hard followers refusing to vote as they did after the Bernie-Hillary contest. Then you know who smirks his way into 2021.
8
As I read the headline I wonder whether this is important....especially on a day that impeachment articles are being delivered to the senate?
8
This is why she isn't my president.
10
Throughout all of this petty mess, do NOT let CNN nor Abby Phillip off the hook. Say what you will about in-party squabbling, but corporate prostitution will not age well for the YouTube archives. Ms. Phillip must be so proud of delivering that performance (or in her likely words, "debate moderation").
13
I'll call her a liar right now. Frankly this contrived dustup tells me all I need to know about her candidacy, just as Kamala Harris' contrived "that girl was me" ambush of Biden told me all I needed to know about her.
17
Two hysterical, one-issue candidates calling each other names.
Kids, go back to the playground.
6
How is this important to electing the person best for saving and progressing the United States? Are you a gossip tabloid now?
- The YoungER generations
4
If this gets the two candidates this riled up, neither stand a chance against what will be the onslaught of mud, lies and other trash thrown at them by Trump and his minions.
These Democrats need to get a thicker skin and learn some new gutter language.
4
Hmm. What shall we accuse Bernie of next? I know! How about bing a shill for corporate America. This whole business is just nonsense.
11
But her emails.
3
At it once again, the Democratic party working hard to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
7
2 years too late and simply ANOTHER version of the "me too" idiocy
4
Sad. This story has created a firestorm. Many are accusing CNN of creating a gotcha moment for Sanders. The implication is that the Democratic establishment is trying to damage the Sanders campaign. The implication from CNN is that Sanders did say it but again there is no real way of knowing. It seems with Sanders' record it would be puzzling that he would say it. Also one can see an act of desperation of Warren for her campaign's loss of momentum. Sanders had his best day of getting contributions following a debate after the story broke. Other major news outlets were quick to criticize CNNs coverage as unprofessional.
12
As others have said, I see no value to Warren in pushing this dispute forward. Only they know what was said and in what context, but this does not put either one of them in a good light, particularly Warren. I love Warren's policy ideas and her determination, but am increasingly worried about her missteps and ability to run against Trump and go toe to toe with him.
7
I think she knows the table is stacked against her with Joe Biden somehow in position to become the nominee. Sanders and Warren are both courting the same voters, and neither has really been able to wrangle enough to appear as the true leader of the pack. This is her sad attempt to attract voters... "The women on this stage have never lost an election." That won't be true in a few months... Soundbites will not sway the voting public (hopefully).
6
My super progressive and feminist girlfriend who is a fan of Warren also thinks that America is not ready for a woman president.
This country is full of people who hold either conscious or unconscious bias against people of different race, gender, sexual identity, religion, or immigrant status. Thanks to the electoral college, they have enough power that I don't think any of the current democratic candidate is electable. Maybe Joe Biden.
2
Here´s the thing, as Warren might say -- this started because someone from Warren´s team, or Warren herself, told the press that in the course of a private conversation, a couple of years ago, Sanders said a woman can´t be elected president. This was an intentional act, it wasn't a slip-up, and it wasn´t even in the context of a larger discussion about the misogyny that women have to deal with on a daily basis, or the misogyny of the Trump presidency in particular.
Bernie was going to sit out the 2016 election if Warren had decided to run. She declined (so he got in) and then she threw her support behind Clinton. If Bernie has, or had, concerns about a female Democratic nominee in the age of Trump, after everything we´ve seen, he has company. There are many who worry about an African American nominee´s chances too, as a matter of fact. But that is not what Warren says he said. She claims he made a blanket statement and she implies that he would not support a woman if she were nominated and does not believe a woman should run for president. Both of those things are false. She knows that. And she knows that more Bernie supporters voted for Clinton that Clinton supporters voted for Obama and that Bernie campaigned much harder for Clinton than Clinton ever did for Obama.
Warren started this deliberately. I think she owes Sanders an apology.
21
I believe Warren must have got an offer to be Biden's VP or even treasury secretary. I don't think she would sell out Sanders for no reason. She's too smart by half. If it's true, even as VP her power will be limited and she would be second to the donors.
7
I have no idea what actually happened -- no one ever will except Warren and Sanders, and even then one or both may be misremembering.
But I do think it was a low blow to bring up a private conversation from two years ago, a quote without any real context, and a conversation that could easily be poorly recalled after all this time. And then why go nuclear with 'liar' to Sanders, and refuse to shake his hand?
Even if Warren's accusation is correct, it does not mean to me that Sanders is biased against women -- it just means he was expressing an opinion at that time on his view of the current electability of women for president. I have had many people, including many women, tell me they think that being a woman probably helped cost Hillary Clinton the presidency. I am disappointed in Senator Warren. Not terminally disappointed, but less admiring than before.
9
Most of you have the story completely wrong. Warren didn’t “leak” any info regarding the meeting with Bernie, she merely responded to a report by CNN. Further, Bernie’s campaign had been giving (reported by Politico) negative talking points (she’s an elitist candidate) to their canvassers. Warren had good reason to be upset at Bernie, who never admits when he’s wrong (it took him a LONG time to admit sexism in his 2016 campaign).
6
This is a (minor) personal disagreement between 2 individuals. How is it injecting "new uncertainty into the Democratic race"?? By next week it will be forgotten, if it hasn't already been. Please focus on what is important in this contest, our nation's future depends on it.
5
With so much going on nationally and internationally, I fault media for making this an issue worth thousands of words and photos.
7
I’ve got my favorite. But, in the end, it doesn’t matter who gets the Democratic nomination. I’m voting blue. I suggest the rest of you do the same.
3
I think Elizabeth Warren was right in calling him out ; Bernie has a sly way of disparaging women candidates and it is misogynistic . While not shaking his hand , she showed composure in confronting him. I laud her for not being afraid for doing so ; you go girl and take on the biggest misogynistic liar . It seems fear is driving this election ; fear of upsetting the voters , that being true not only to oneself and others and the electorate is taboo . I want a candidate that is honest , shows exactly who he or she is ; that was Donald Trump's attraction to a vast number of people , although he has never been honest in what he says , he is honest in what he is .
6
I had the upmost respect for both but it seems that they learned nothing about history and the pettiness it’s getting tiresome, enough already!
2
The question the Democrats should be asking if they think a progressive can be elected President.
Look at this shiny object, instead of the fact that both candidates stated that we need to end these endless wars during the debate.
5
Let’s suppose they both lied. That would be Bernie + Elizabeth 2, and Trump, what, 16438?
There would not be enough bandwidth on the internet or ink on the planet to report each of Trump’s lies at the same level of detail as this story is getting.
6
Whether you liked or supported Hillary Clinton or not, there was a truckload of unfair treatment she endured in 2008 (yes, from Obama's camp) and in 2016. As a point of interest, she got dumped on royally and repeatedly from several surprising directions, including the DNC, including the New York Times, including Sanders supporters, including Democrats in general.
For many women of Hillary's generation, she represented something that no woman candidate who follows her will represent in quite the same way. And watching what happened to her from "friends", was a hard lesson in Democrat misogyny and dirty politics. Too bad for us.
Why bring this up in an article about Elizabeth Warren? I don't know, but I am a more cynical voter than I used to be, and progressives shouldn't be surprised if Democrats are not treating each other with respect.
7
Shame on the reporter for even asking that question. It is a loaded issue and not necessarily helpful in the strategy needed to beat Trump. This is why people despise the media: they are always looking for “dirt” instead of real issues on which campaigns should focus.
Who cares if Bernie believes a woman cannot win the presidency, it not like he said a woman is not fit to win the presidency. He is just reflecting the country’s mood and misogynism.
Let’s move on Bernie and Elizabeth!
5
Elizabeth Warren bought it up so what do you expect Bernie to do?
6
A Cat Fight, I love it. Plays right into the hands of the Donald. The self-Righteous Democrats are the same as everybody else. They just refuse to acknowledge the Fact that they are.
1
I like both Sanders and Warren, but do feel they need to differentiate themselves or they will split the vote. Having said that, there is nothing I get from Sanders that indicates he is a misogynist by any stretch of the imagination. Sounds like it was a comment taken out of context. I am disappointed that Warren put this forward in an attempt to draw a line between them. But also irritated at how this is grabbing the headlines. I hope my fellow Dems are smarter than this.
3
How much do you want to bet that the Warren campaign completely made up the story, then leaked it to CNN, then "corroborated" the story they fabricated? If I was a betting man, that's where I'd put my money.
5
As a progressive I’m becoming very disillusioned by Bernie. I watched every moment of the debate and I believe her. He easily could have said I don’t remember saying that but if I did give you that impression I apologize. Then gone on to promote his policies that do support women. He could have gone high, instead he went low. He essentially called her a liar. His campaign ( with his tacit permission) sends their surrogates to the comments section here to smear all of his democratic opponents. A repeat of his 2016 tactics. The stakes are toohigh for him to be running a campaign that undermines any Democrats. That he is doing this to Warren is the last straw for me. Although I will vote blue no matter who, I will not be voting for him in the primary. Warren 2020!!!
10
Let's just take it as a given that ALL political candidates are conniving, because you can't win if you arent.
Abby Phillip's questioning was disgraceful and embarrassing to fair journalism.
This is the exchange with Mr. Sanders, Ms. Phillip said: “So Sen. Sanders, I do want to be clear here,” Phillip followed up, “you’re saying that you never told Sen. Warren that a woman could not win the election?”
Mr. Sanders answered “That is correct.”
Ms. Phillip then blatantly ignored what Mr. Sanders said and asked Ms. Warren the following: “Sen. Warren, what did you think when Sen. Sanders told you a woman could not win the election?”
Not even a Junior High School journalist would dare to be so blatant. Ms. Phillip all but asked what Ms. Warren thought about Mr. Sanders being a liar.
CNN is turning into a cesspool as it leaves journalism behind to puff up its ratings.
31
This is so stupid I can't believe it. As far as I'm concerned, they have both disqualified themselves from being nominated-- thin-skinned, backbiting, petty...how are either of them going to withstand Trump's verbal assaults? And who cares if somebody thinks a woman can't win? Who cares if they THINK that? Warren is stirring up the 'Me-Too-ers' in an effort to become more popular. Phooey on her! This kind of inane squabbling is going to keep 'the useful idiot' in the White House.
9
Warren's choices have demonstrated increasingly poor judgment. Only those unfamiliar w/Sanders & his record would incline to believe what even MSNBC called an absurd claim. Heartbroken long-time Warren acolyte recounted, in his podcast lamentation, the list of her past "embellishments" that he'd stuffed away and tried to dismiss. Some of which I was unfamiliar with before, and are a real eye-opener. I do recommend his brilliant podcast series, this was episode 19.
The upshot of her Hail-Mary attempt to boost her campaign was that she played directly into the hands of the mega-powers she has, in the past, purported to oppose. She weakened the party, the progressive cause, and helped Trump. A tragic fail that we all pray doesn't set us back as much as those who control so much of this country hope that it does.
15
Warren's choices have demonstrated increasingly poor judgment. Only those unfamiliar w/Sanders & his record would incline to believe what even MSNBC called an absurd claim. Heartbroken long-time Warren acolyte Michael Moore, recounted in his podcast lamentation, the list of her past "embellishments" that he'd stuffed away and tried to dismiss. Some of which I was unfamiliar with before, and are a real eye-opener. I do recommend his brilliant podcast series, "Rumble." This was episode 19.
The upshot of her Hail-Mary attempt to boost her campaign was that she played directly into the hands of the mega-powers she has, in the past, purported to oppose. She weakened the party, the progressive cause, and helped Trump. A tragic fail that we all pray doesn't set us back as much as those who control so much of this country hope that it does.
8
Memo to all, candidates especially: treat all microphones as if they are on. Most are. (Cameras, too, especially when they have names like Siri and Alexa, which may be smart but aren't discerning.)
3
@CP Warren may have done exactly that before she approached Sanders.
3
Which one of these candidates already has a publicly established pattern of lying?
I'll leave this here.
9
I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle and Bernie said or meant something like "it will be harder for a woman to beat Trump than a man because of the sexism of his core supporters". If he did say it as it's being reported then she could have gotten him to eat his words by publicly asking "Bernie, do you think a woman can beat Trump in 2020?" and of course he would have to agree that one could. How it happened now it sounds like her campaign coordinated this "leak" to damage him and it doesn't look good for her to do that rather than directly confront someone who is supposed to be her "friend". (btw I'm a big Warren supporter) Do we know who leaked it? I'm not into conspiracy theories, but it seems possible that CNN or the DNC orchestrated this to harm both progressives.
12
I remember when this primary first began. The year was 1879. Thomas Edison had just invented the light bulb...
For the love of God, can we please vote already?
14
Warren orchestrated this thing for political gain.
It's the kind of cynical political gimmick that Sanders would never do.
16
I am a woman and I believe misogyny is a huge factor that could prevent this country from electing a female president.
I wish Warren would drop this because many people have trouble believing the US would elect a female president and Bernie is not the enemy here.
He is not my candidate but, although it is very conceivable that he said during a casual conversation that he is concerned the country won't vote for a woman, I don't think he meant it in any prejudiced way, at all.
I think he was and is concerned that we can't beat Trump with a female candidate.
Bernie is right that Hillary triumphed with the popular vote and that is quite surprising but I'm not sure it will work this time, especially since Warren has the additional label of being too "progressive."
We need a moderate to build bridges and get us back on track to being the nation that leads instead of the one that is shunned.
Yes, there are many injustices that were left undone by many past administrations but Trump has so poisoned the well and we need a moderate as the antidote to all the poison!
63
@HBD I agree with your assessment that "he was and is concerned that we can't beat Trump with a female candidate."
If so, he should have explained it during the debate instead of saying "I didn't say that."
16
@HBD Well, that's akin to asking her to "just shut up about it." Bernie and his bros came after her and she responded, as well she should have, because he is no friend to women as he showed in 2016 and his refusal to support HRC. He's not a Dem to begin with, he's Independent. PRoblem has always been that when women speak up and call it out, they are told to not rock the boat and be quiet, take the middle road. It's other women doing this not just men. It needs to stop. Warren can say anything she wants, just like her male counterparts.
14
The absolute best result for the Democratic Party would be for Sanders and Warren to withdraw on the grounds that both have been cantankerous elderly people without leadership skills for at least 20 years.
12
@Mack
How about having the barely-not-a-boy Buttigieg withdraw for being a unseasoned, lightly experienced politician who the press elevates to General Eisenhower for having spent six months in Afghanistan and not even in a battle situation let alone command?
That sounds bad, doesn't it? Well, the ageism expressed in your comment is equally bad. Consider it.
12
@Mack
Yes! Biden is definitely not old, definitely not cantankerous and he showed this by working well with Raprock and Corn-pop!
5
Sanders camp admits now that an anti-Warren script was deployed in multiple early states. At first, Sanders denied it, or, using a word Sanders uses a lot,"lied" about it. It was his script to his supporters that caused the fray.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/14/sanders-admits-anti-warren-script-early-states-098786
Sanders also admits that “What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could.”
Why wouldn’t Warren understand that as an argument that a woman couldn’t win?
Sanders has called Warren and her supporters "liars." He uses that word a lot, except when describing his own actions. Sanders knee-jerk reaction to call people liars has fanned the flames.
9
Ugh, Bernie Bros.
Yes, as a matter of fact, he can do wrong.
11
Bernie Sanders needs to recognize that he is too old to run for President and support Elizabeth Warren now. If Mr Sanders is nominated Donald Trump is a shoe-in. Don’t let this happen.
6
@Lily
If Mr. Sanders is up to the task, so am I!
6
@Lily
I am calling out the ageism here.
This is the list of candidates over 70: Warren, Trump, Biden, Bloomberg, and Sanders. There is no appreciable, meaningful difference in their ages.
Which one do you want because it is likely to one of them. Keep up the disparagement, and it is likely to be Trump.
11
Warren is 70 and the other Democrats are in their late 70s and would all turn 80 while in office. Warren is the only one who could conceivably serve 2 terms. I don't support her, but she is not disqualifyingly old for the job, and the others really are (especially Biden, who really shows his age in a way the others don't). You can call it ageism, but there's still such a thing as being too old for something, especially the most stressful job on earth.
4
This has really brought the Sanders minions out in force. Folks, enough already. Senator Warren's character, honesty and ethics are and always have been exemplary. Despite what Trump says. We're all human including your guy. I'm sick of Trump minions who lie on TV and pass on all kind of nonsense here. I'm sick of the Sanders minions who sound here just like the Republicans at the Kavanaugh hearing. My own hope is that 2020 is decided by the Americans who realize that minion-izing of all kinds is no good for America.
14
@Robert
You are correct in your desire to see us move on; however, your own bias may cause you to perceive that Sanders supporters are piling on and fail to see - because it is consistent with your own views - that centrists are equally piling on with very nasty, negative comments about Sanders. (Even you?)
There are no clean hands, okay? We have to let this go EVEN IF the media doesn't.
6
@nora m
Smart, thoughtful reply. Thank you.
To all those - Warren is terrible, attacking poor Bernie people- slow your roll - Didn’t this entire topic come up because some Sanders canvassers had been given talking points that Warren was not electable partly because she is a woman. And a Warren staffer brought up that Sanders said to Warren he thought a woman couldn’t be President. This got in the news. The debate moderator then asked Warren about it - she didn’t bring it up. She did not try and attack Bernie over it. But what was she supposed to do when asked a straightforward question by the moderator. But then Bernie said - nothing to see here, i have lots of women friends, how could I be sexist?! And maybe he thought he didn’t say it or didn’t remember. And she was surprised and frustrated that he denied it on national TV, because her memory was that he did.
7
@Doc
You missed the correct statement about what Warren - or her team - reported, so you have been had by someone, somewhere stoking this non-event.
Warren said that Bernie said "he did not believe that a woman can beat Trump." That is quite different from saying SHE couldn't be president or a woman cannot be president. It is specific to beating Trump.
Bernie did not say during the debate that he has "lots of women friends". He said he has a record, which he does, of encouraging this SPECIFIC woman to run for president. Tulsi Gabbard reported that she, too, sought his advice and he encouraged her to run.
Please refrain from distorting this. It is easy and tempting to do, but it is not helpful. We are only helping Trump.
What is the real goal? Defeating Trump.
10
@Doc
No, that is absolutely not what happened.
First off the script (accurately) said Warren's base represents a narrower demographic (whiter, wealthier), and that that presents a greater challenge in a general election against Trump. It was uploaded by a low-level volunteer and immediately pulled according to the campaign. In any case that's a world apart from floating to the media that your competitor is a secret misogynist. If you think Warren didn't know what her aides are up to, and CNN confirmed it came from her top aides, I think you're naive.
4
Poor Bernie. I hope he enjoys his victimhood just like Trump does. His followers have reacted like Trumps' followers also. He made a huge haul after the debate. His rabid followers were susceptible to Russian influence attacking Hillary after he imitated the GOP playbook attacking HRC. And besides, he's an old man. Maybe he just forgot what he said.
7
I'm Team Warren all the way. I believe Elizabeth was simply standing up to Bernie to let him know she knew the truth and that it was not "okay" to miss lead or misstate the truth.
This is Bernie's last hope of running for office and I have no doubt he will do whatever he can to win, even if that is lying about a private conversation with Elizabeth.
Elizabeth being a woman, is criticized if she is passive and criticized if she is aggressive. Women are judged differently than men and I for one am tired of it.
Team Warren For The Win!
438
EW is NOT electable....not because of her gender, but rather that her platform is based on “class warfare”.
57
@Valerie Bernie Sanders is authentic.
Warren has shown herself not to be. Another inauthentic Democrat is not what's needed.
135
@Valerie
"Team Warren for the Win!"
.
Couldn't make this stuff up.
.
“'I think you called me a liar on national TV,' Ms. Warren told Mr. Sanders,"
.
Well, she is a liar. Over and over again. Unlike a native American heritage, lying is in her DNA.
126
As I have been taught by my wife, this is exactly what mansplaining gets you. Sorry Bernie, a mansplainer rarely fully realizes, from the dizzying heights of his lofty perch, what he is actually saying.
72
@Intrepiddoc We don't know what was said. Ms. Warren leveled an allegation and now doesn't want to discuss it. This is as nasty as it gets.
50
@Ross You can pretty much tell in the clip what was said, but more importantly, the mansplaining problem with Bernie (and his acolytes) is hardly confined to this particular moment.
9
@mkd500 Maybe she'll have her statement analyzed for authenticity. If it's 1/1024th true I'll accept that.
10
What happened on stage (or even before) is not the issue. Sanders and Warren overlap nearly completely in their appeal. Their policies are nearly identical. That they would end up taking shots at each other should be no surprise. And in fact, Sanders shot first with his anti-Warren script. Warren fired back and scored a moment for women in politics in the process.
This would be little more than an anecdote if not for the Bernie loyal who are now out for Warren's blood. They don't know if her claim is true. Nor do they need to know. She is now enemy #1. This "Bernie or burn" mentality has the stench of 2016 all over it. And it is what makes all of this much more divisive than a simple spat.
As Colbert said last night, "If you want to see Bernie say nice things about female presidential candidates, go to Youtube. If you want to see his supporters say terrible things about them, go to the comment section".
13
@Ian Wood
I hear they are using snake emojis when they tweet about her. She has no chance and should leave the race on the promise whoever becomes the nominee will make her #2.
@Ian Wood
Sanders shot first with a script? I think I read that was uploaded by a low-level volunteer, immediately pulled and never used. In any case, there are worlds of difference between pointing out Warren's base is a narrower band of demographics (wealthier, whiter), and therefore present a greater challenge in general election against Trump, and leaking to CNN on the eve of the debate an denuded-of-context sentence your opponent allegedly said in a private conversation 13 months ago, to paint him as a secret sexist. Add to that Warren affirming he said this horrible thing, while declining to contextualize it, as if to take the high road when she's really giving life to the most insidious interpretations.
It's low and dirty, and for thinking person, it's at odds with Sander's pushing her to run in 2016. He turned around in 2018 and misogynistically told her "a woman can't be president"? What a gross, gross, cynically-deployed weapon.
4
The Bernie attack dogs are out in force in the comments!
6
Maybe it’s because at heart, Bernie’s supporters are advocates of people with integrity who are falsely accused. I know I am. Bernie is too busy running for President so he can work for you to waste time here defending himself against petty and false nonsense accusations against him.
4
I wish the media would stop trying to split the left. The muckraking tone of this article is beneath the dignity of the New York Times. Just stop it.
13
I don't understand what the big deal. The whole country knows Elizabeth Warren is a liar ever since her fake native American scam. She has lied her way into her position since her college days.
12
This is the second time that Warren has pulled this stunt in a debate and got all the 'reality TV' headlines the next day. The first was with the wine caves against Buttigieg where her hyperbole about the event made it sound sinister and elitist. It turns out that few if any billionaires were in attendance and that some of the people donated $11, due to being teachers, etc. In reality, she told a 'white lie.' Now, she attacks Sanders, someone i don't support for president, and gets all the 'realty TV' headlines once again. Then to top it off, she forgets she's on TV and that there is still an audience watching and lambasts him in public. Luckily Sanders understood the situation and put an end to the conversation. I don't care who was right or wrong here. I am embarrassed that Warren acted in a way that was unbelievably not presidential, except if she was trying to echo Trump's way of dealing with matters. I don't get what she thinks she is gaining by this behavior, but i implore her to stop. She is only helping Trump's election.
11
I will happily vote for Sanders or Warren or whomever the Democrats nominate. Let us not forget that in 2016, while African American and Latino women overwhelmingly voted for a woman, Hillary Clinton, white women split almost evenly between Trump and Clinton. Go figure!
7
That’s it, Democrats. Eat your own. Nobody takes their eyes off the goal like a Democrat.
9
This is unbelievable. I've been a Warren supporter from the beginning, but she keeps have these weird lapses of judgement, like the Native American thing. Of all the people in the world to play identity politics with, you choose Bernie!!? Identity politics will sink us. It's the reason we have Trump, and might have him for another 4 years
20
For me, to say a woman can't be elected in this country is an opinion that could be true, nor not. Why would it be so horrible if he did throw it out in a private conversation? Should we all be recording our private conversations now to protect ourselves?
6
Taking an excerpt from Dobbys sock's reply @Ursula Weeks cause it has all the facts and needs to be in the main comments:
'63 Bernie getting arrested, chained to Black women at the protest of Willis Wagons.
'72 Sanders was fighting for women's Reproductive Rights before Roe v. Wade.
'89: As mayor, Bernie fought for an ordinance that “reserves 10% of all city funded jobs for women.”
'91 Bern tries to add an amend to Civil Rights Act of '91 that would ensure that race and sex discrimination would be treated identically under federal law. Sanders told reporters, “That women today are not equal under the law is unacceptable.” The amend. was rejected.
'92 Bern proposes and passes Senate legislation calling for a national cancer registry. Sanders said, “Breast cancer in America today is a tragedy of epidemic proportions.”
'96 Gloria Steinem said Bernie is "symbol of women's Rights".
'98 election, NOW(National Organization for Women) endorsed Bernie and no other VT. politician "He's a congressman we don't even have to call, We know he's going to vote the right way."
The list continues all the way up to this campaign.
I'm sure you know that 71% of his staff are women.?!
https://www.thenation.com/article/bernie-feminist-president/
I like this one; '87 Bernie tells 3rd grade class/girl that women should be president and it's not happening fast enough.
https://twitter.com/pjayevans/status/1216826375744737280
16
It’s disappointing to see the New York Times read like a tabloid piece about The Real Housewives or The Bachelor. Stories like these distract from important matters. Let Trump tweet about trivial tiffs. I expect more from the Times. Let’s not lower the bar for journalism.
11
Team Trump is high-fiving over this. Keep it up and it'll be Two-Term Trump. Jesus!
6
WHY ARE WE DOING THIS?
Didn't we learn anything from 2016??????
C'mon MSM. Don't play into the hands of outside interference AGAIN.
8
CNN did not report that Mr Sanders had told Ms Warren... What CNN reported was that people in the Warren canpaign had claimed that Mr Sanders had told Ms Warren...
The meeting occurred in 2018. Is it just a remarkable coincidence that her campaign came out with this story more than a year later, with her poll numbers collapsing, on the day before the last major event ahead of the Iowa caucus? Or was this a planned hit, and if so, how far in advance?
There appears to be a consensus in the media that Warren knew her mike was on and the cameras were rolling when she confronted Sanders after the debate ended. This looks like a desperate stunt that will surely backfire.
Sanders really is a democratic socialist. He really is Jewish. He really never claimed to be an American Indian. I don't believe the Warren accusation.
12
Sorry to see that nasty exchange on TV. I would vote for either one.
But even without the sound, their encounter looked bad--- Sanders put out his hand for a quick shake-- a common formality ---but Warren turned him down, keeping hands conspicuously clasped. He had to withdraw his hand!
Is she so angry?
Sure I'll vote for her, but she seems in her speeches a bit angry, unpleasant, school marmish. I often change channels when she's on. But Bernie's annoying to listen to as well. Same old outraged lectures!
I like to listen to Mayor Pete, or Yang also--- he's charming, humorous and smart.
But their personalities aren't the main thing. I hope either Liz or Bernie get nominated--- to rescue this country from disaster.
5
It is unfortunate that Warren is squabbling about this instead of thinking solely about what is best for the country. She should be her authentic self and concentrate on the goal of getting rid of Trump and presenting thoughtful and rational ideas to solve the social issues plaguing the country at this time. It may be that a woman would not win the Presidency at this time due to misogyny having reared its ugly head.
4
I believe Elizabeth Warren. And I also think she should never have entered into any coalition with Mr. Sanders (if that did indeed happen).
In the absence of a transcript of their meeting, Mr. Sanders' actions (or omissions) speak louder than any words. His 2016 campaign was rife with sexual harassment. He claims not to be aware -- well, a Sanders WH would similarly turn a blind eye. In 2016, women were categorically paid less in the Sanders campaign. This is a systemic issue which Bernie had to have been and should have been aware. I think the women who support Mr. Sanders should be on notice and understand that this is not mere identity politics to be disregarded.
Bernie has amnesia when convenient...here is a perfect example. I truly doubt HIS honesty, and though I am desperate for a Democrat to beat Trump, let me state that I will NEVER, NEVER vote for Sanders.
4
The “controversy” between Warren and Sanders that is promoted by CNN — and in this case the NYT — is damaging to the cause of defeating trump. If Sanders were to be the nominee and you did not vote for him it would be a vote for trump. Your not voting for Sanders would be just as ill advised as a Bernie supporter who did not vote for a non-Bernie nominee; again it would be a vote for trump. We have one goal here; remove the trump menace!
4
Okay Boomer
While these two geriatric cases blather at each other, the most important question of the night did not get asked. Who would they (and Joe Biden) name for Vice President. Given their ages and the reality of the actuarial table it is crucial to know who would follow them if they could not perform the duties of the presidency. As to who is lying, could be either of them. He is the millionaire Socialist and she has reinvented her narrative so many times that I have lost count!
4
The Sanders camp is full of far-left extremists who are just extremely hostile to women - an excessive number of "bros"- I am quite familiar with them. They unreasonably and incorrectly attack Warren all the time. I'm just sick of it, their language, their idiosyncratic take on a number of issues. I am very far left and far more educated on political history than the average Bernie supporter. I abandoned the Bernie campa a while back - too cultish.
12
@Le I'm part of a Bernie 2020 volunteer group in my neighborhood and we're pretty diverse--different ages, genders, and races and we attract a lot of volunteers. I personally think Warren is great, but have enough concerns that I prefer Bernie for the presidency. Sorry you had a bad experience talking to some bad apples--hope you give us another chance!
29
@Le
Thank you for assisting Trump's re-election campaign. We really should fight among ourselves and disparage each other as frequently as possible. It makes Moscow Mitch smile warmly.
Please note that your "side" is not innocence of the things you claim for the other side. AND Bernie supporters here always say they will vote blue no matter who while supporters of centrists frequently say they will not vote for a progressive. Are we - in your opinion - worse than Trump?
19
I'm voting for Bernie. I refuse to vote for or support any campaign not unambiguously on the side of working people against the billionaire class. We've had enough of "lesser-evilism" embodied in the "vote blue no matter who" philosophy. The fact is that the Democratic Party establishment bears a lot of responsibility for Trump, by continually undermining the social movements that could actually defeat the far right while, when in power themselves, never doing anything of substance to actually fix the terrible conditions the working class faces across the country. Under Obama, the Democrats had the White House, the House, and Senate, and should have been able to pass any kind of legislation they wanted. They bailed out the banks and passed a giant giveaway to health insurance companies and called it health care reform! That continuous betrayal is why Trump got elected, and it's why running anyone but Bernie pretty much guarantees that Trump will be reelected. As part of the left, as a socialist, I promise you that I won't vote for Warren or Biden under any circumstances. If Bernie isn't on the ballot, I'll either write him in or vote Green.
9
I have no doubts about Warren's personal integrity. The most probable truth lies somewhere between insofar as it may have been opined but taken wildly out of context given Sander's long long history as activist for women's rights. Warren may have mentioned it en passant to her managers who in turn decided to weaponize it in the face of a flagging campaign. It betrays a significant lack of imagination and a recourse to the now rejected Clintonian style of politics. Both parties should simply move on as there is a herculean battle ahead to unseat their antithesis sitting in White House.
7
I am perfectly happy to have Sanders and Warren spend the next six months arguing about anything and everything they care to. Getting them both out of the way of the future should be our top priority.
1
Someone must have a transcript or recording of this meeting. Memories are notoriously selective and unreliable (scientific fact) and both may believe what they think they remember.
1
The Democratic primaries are veering into Taylor Swift/Kanye West/Kardashian territory. How many times did Amy Klobuchar use the phrase "I have the receipts" in her post-debate interviews? Cringe-worthy, all of it.
3
I believe Warren. You see the mark this misogynistic society has left on the populace when the NYTimes even prints an article entitled: "Is a Woman Electable?" You can also see it in these comments in which people hold it against Warren for defending herself and directly addressing Sanders. Why should Warren shake his hand? The Sanders campaign has played dirty before and they're doing it again.
6
@Me Sure, believe the woman who has left a trail of lies in her wake over a man who has authenticity and a life long trail of supporting women, POC and underdogs.
There are receipts.
5
Questionable, even outright false claims are part of Warren's pattern. After months on the campaign trail claiming that she lost her 1971 teaching job when the Riverdale, N.J., school board saw she was “visibly pregnant,” documents from the school system were uncovered proving she was, in fact, offered another year’s teaching contract. Warren wasn’t denied a job. She chose to decline it. And yes, she was pregnant at the time. So, technically, she was pregnant and she stopped teaching. When her “Native American” heritage issue was first reported by the Boston Herald in 2012, Warren was forced to acknowledge that she did, in fact, list herself as a minority faculty member at Harvard, despite her obvious status as a Caucasian woman. In fact, Warren had repeatedly claimed Native American status at a series of institutions for years before she got to Harvard, listing herself as an “American Indian” on her Texas State Bar registration card in 1986. How about her misleading “I sent my children to public school” answer at the Clark University speech? Her campaign simply evaded that question. How do significant & problematic facts remain a secret? Does anyone believe there aren’t more such revelations waiting in the wings? Imagine what Trump could do to her in the heat of a campaign. Should Democratic primary voters take that risk? Right-wing talk hosts who call Warren “Lieawatha” are called mean-spirited, but it’s not hard to see why the nickname sticks.
10
CNN's bias was ugly and demeaning. Why this controversy now if from 2018? Watching the debate a second time, it struck me how it then played into Warren's opportunity to launch into her only women always winning spiel making the whole thing appear manufactured, and, creating the sensationalism CNN craves that also gives candidates more speaking time.
9
Please don’t give this top coverage - let it go.
Both are good people having a human moment while navigating within a pressure cooker.
Blowing this up serves no one - now more than ever given the deceit going on in plain sight in the White House.
8
STOP. STOP. STOP. NYT, please stop covering these non-issues. Report on, and compare and contrast, the positions and plans of each candidate. This is a federal election that literally will determine the long term future and fate of our democracy. It is not Big Brother or Jersey Shore, stop reporting on it like it is.
9
They’re both terrible. If either is nominee, Trump wins- guaranteed.
2
Well now that Corey Booker has withdrawn, Warren can claim she is the only "Black" candidate left in the race. Warren has proven time & time again to be a rank, shameless opportunist. And I very much hope her utterly unprincipled, lying accusations thrown at Sanders will finish her off.
5
I wonder if Bernie would say a socialist democrat can't win?
1
Please can we avoid the circular firing squad?
Let’s worry about the silly stuff after we get Trump out of office.
3
I've sent Elizabeth Warren money and have her bumper sticker on my car but I have to say I'm really disappointed in her. She played the women card because she's desperate and after reading a good deal of the comments here it sems alot of women bought it. It was a cheap shot and she should be embarrassed but then as the old saying goes "Politics ain't bean bag" I just thought she was better than that. I was wrong.
9
Once again democrats gin up a story that makes everybody look petty and distracts from the big picture. What an unerring ability to shoot themselves in the foot. Republicans are doing a happy dance.
3
Affluent white female urban liberals - like Warren - did not get their affluence and pricey zip codes and 400K a year jobs by being pushovers. They fight for it. Every day. And may God have mercy on any “friends” or “allies” who get between them and what they want.
Her record as a cunning fighter has been clear enough. She was smart enough to be a Republican who decried affirmative action into her 40s, while claiming to be a Native American for professional advancement. She was tough enough to defend Dow-Corning in court against a bunch of women who had been given cancer by faulty products.
And she’s been tough and savvy enough to destroy Sanders, just in time for Iowa! She’s like a tougher version of Hillary! How can America not love her?
She may not have any consistent principles and her politics might just be one giant act for personal advancement, but isn’t this what we need in a politician?
Maybe this is something that only other AWFUL’s can see. Maybe this is just an affluent white female urban liberal thing. But no one can doubt that she’s not a fighter.
Even the Times sees this. Just look at how many pro-Warren posts are their favorites, vs. the overwhelming majority of anti-Warren posts favored by the readers. This is because the ladies at the Times are either fellow AWFULs or aspiring ones. The readers on the other hand are less sophisticated, and more simple. They value different things, like not being a snake.
But not me! I also stand with Liz!
2
Men never like being called out by a women. And the world punishes women for doing so.
5
Warren's last attempt to remain relevant. Nothing more.
5
You would think by now Bernie Sanders Misogyny was well known to everyone. Bernie is pulling same things he pulled in 2016. He is the most divisive pathetic Socialist ever. FIVE YEARS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT and he still barely cracks 15% but if he wins a caucus in all all white small state "The people here gave me a mandate". Doesnt he tealize that he will never be the nominee of any party.
2
1139 comments and prominent coverage for this tripe. 66 comments for the terrific Yang interview. Yang excluded from the debate.These clowns are the "front runners". State of the nation of state of media focus?
3
“Making the disaster that is Trump's presidency end is of utmost importance,” writes a NYT reader. Another says, “ I don’t care about private conversations.” Most everyone was praised Elizabeth Warren after the debate saying how smart she was making this exchange a forceful punch about her and Amy.
Didn’t she felt it? This tantrum is unbecoming.
2
This is ridiculous. I heard since Hillary Clinton my co workers saying this country is not ready for a woman, when Obama this country is not ready for an Afro- American. The racism and sexism is something that everybody verbalized in a way that oh is not me is that people are not ready!! It is projection. Please don’t pay attention keep fighting the racism and sexism in this society is horrible but we got to keep fighting. I think we are making progress. It will take time. But every woman that respect herself in this country is fighting. Warren is a woman like everyone else and it is ok to have differences with Bernie. Don’t pay attention this is nothing. Did you remember Trump’s locker room talks? Women of America wake up and vote.
3
Who leaked the private conversation to the press? So many people assume it was Warren’s campaign. From what I have read, Warren spoke to people immediately after she invited Bernie over to discuss her intentions of running for president. She relayed to them what Bernie said. Did they in turn speak to others about it?
Warren has many enemies. So does Bernie. Perhaps it spread to someone who wants to ignite a bitter fight between the two.
Sanders admits that “What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could.”
Sounds like he made the case that a woman couldn’t win.
Yet Sanders called Warren a liar. Bernie uses that word a lot. Now Trump, who Bernie calls a “pathological liar,” is siding with Bernie. I’d laugh but it’s too pathetic.
Warren’s social media, which has been trashed daily by Trump supporters, is now doubly trashed by Bernie supporters.
Are Warren supporters trashing Bernie’s social media? Nope.
One more point: if it wasn’t for AOC, Bernie would not be where he is right now.
2
Pie fight in the senior care facility! Sanders, Biden and Warren should all quit this race, as should any other Democratic candidate who's over the standard private-sector retirement age of 65.
Trump is of course no youngster himself, but I can only imagine the laughs that he's having over this idiotic, geriatric Punch and Judy show.
Is this REALLY the best that the Democrats can do for candidates? If so, get ready for another four years of President Trump.
1
Precisely! After Kamala Harris and Corey Booker left the “stage” I have (sadly) been preparing myself for a devastating 4 more trump years.
1
This kerfuffle has been wholly manufactured by Warren and is perfectly representative of her lack of character. Warren is a very special fraud.
2
Such pettiness. FDR '32, JFK '60, Obama '08 this is not.
2
Ridiculous of Warren and lowers my estimation of her completely. As much as I would be pleased to have a woman president, this behavior indicates a great need to score/win/that's over the top.
3
Well, she is right about being called a liar. She is a liar, as has also been demonstrated throughout her life. She is unfit for the office of president. Also, I hate character smears by political candidates: Castro, Harris, and now Warren.
2
In 2016 I voted the Democratic ticket.
Hillary lost because she was Hillary, not because she is female. Comey aided in that defeat. as did the DNC.
Up front, I admit to sending money to Sen. Sanders in 2016.
But I believe that Senator Warren will make a better president and have more time to be President than Sanders.
I will be backing Warren this time.
6
If what Bernie said 'A woman CANNOT win the election" - that may be just his sober observation of the current political reality. But if he said 'A woman SHOULD not be president, that is a whole different story." A big difference. This was a cheap, non-issue introduced by a strident moderator at the last debate.
5
Yeah, this is what the Democrats need, while the Middle East is heating up: its two lefties are fighting in the backseat, over who did or didn’t say something to the other one, before the car left home.
Pick an adult, and a moderate, Democrats - Bloomberg, Biden, Klobuchar, or Yang - or you can kiss this election goodbye.
Neither Sanders nor Warren can win a single battleground state. They couldn’t even win in a run for Congress in those states, none of which includes Iowa or New Hampshire (even historians can’t explain to me how those two little states became so influential in our stupid primary system).
6
In general, these comments are appalling. A great deal of venom is directed here toward Warren, much of it including statements that she's "petty" or "conniving" or "desperate" or "untrustworthy."
So, wow, thanks for alerting me to how sexist many Bernie supporters must be because these epithets prove the point that many Americans (male and female) STILL underestimate women's abilities and still hold women to higher, different standards, just as Klobuchar pointed out in the penultimate debate.
The sharpest candidate on that stage is Warren in case you haven't noticed.
10
@JD
How do you KNOW those comments are made by Bernie supporters? They could be from Biden supporters, Buttigieg supporters, Klobuchar supporters, Independents, the Trump campaign, or their Russian helpers. All of those groups are represented here.
Hint: singling one group out for censure is not helpful to the goal of defeating Trump.
3
@nora m You make a good point. But many of the commenters did specifically identify as Bernie supporters.
1
Sanders is a narcissist who lacks humility and has accomplished little. He does not work on legislation as much as talk about it. He bloviates while Warren works. His tribe of supporters do not see the difference between an accomplished woman of 70 who has faced many obstacles and won, including the consumer protection bureau, and a 78 year old who provides promises without details. In a way he hustles like Trump but for good ideas. She has intellect, experience and energy. He has charisma which always inspires but disappoints. Yes, I will vote for anyone but Trump but Bernie lovers, please remember what he did in 2016, he will do it again now and we will lose. Two old white guys debating our future scares me.
10
THIS is not helping anyone.
GET the geezers off the stage
!!
2
All is fair in love and politics, boo hoo!
2
This is an excellent example of the typical difference between the way that men and women may handle confrontation or conflict. Women go into the "We need to talk now" mode, and men withdraw or deflect. At least that's the way it happens with naive individuals in a coupled relationship. Mature women know you never pin down a man like that without warning (after a debate -- yikes!) or he will run. So is Elizabeth that naive and emotional, or did she do it strategically to expose Sanders to the world as a liar -- i.e. knew the mikes were hot.
If strategic, then my young friends, your Elizabeth is not so pure as your thought. And perhaps Bernie is a misogynist or at least an old white dude. I believe Bernie did say it, but only as a debatable aside during a few drinks and lasagna between friends -- not as a philosophy meant to be dropped like a pre-debate bomb. Stir that into the Warren bucket along with the DNA moment. Liz is looking too emotional and "female" right now and unfortunately gives force to the women are too emotional to hold high office trope.
So my kiddies -- as in life -- no one is perfect, and the more you learn about a partner or a candidate, the more gray the world becomes. That's why I don't trust your passionate ideals and "wokeness." It wells from inexperience and immaturity.
6
It was stupid for CNN to ask the question in the first place. But once asked, the wise response on the part of both Warren and Sanders would be to say - The conversation was two years ago. We each remember it differently." No more needed to be said about the event. Warren's subsequent comments about women's ability to win elections were brilliant and on point.
5
I was waiting for a (qualified) questioner last night to ask Elizabeth Warren what point specifically she was trying to make in reporting that Sanders made this comment about women running for President.
Was she personally offended or insulted or does it go further than that, is the Senator making a claim that Senator Sanders is a misogynist and unfit to be President or is there something about his legislative history or personal behavior that is causing her to come forward with the details of this private conversation at this time?
4
Oh Please. This sniping is beneath both candidates and is a non-issue at this point. I can't fathom why it is even getting any press attention at all other than that the faintest scent of blood drives the media bonkers and they descend in a swarm looking for some new juicy non-story to blow up way out of proportion.
I don't care who said what two years ago and I can't understand why Warren's campaign would even bring it up now if they did. What a stupid, counter-productive move. I like Bernie and Elizabeth both, I support them both and we don't have time for this kind of drivel at this point.
If we're not careful we're going to end up with someone like Biden or Buttigieg who represent the same old interests and the same old regime that both Bernie and Elizabeth are trying to wake people up about.
Buttigieg is just Biden redux with the advantage of having been around less time to have shown so much bad judgement and have so solidly certified his membership in the old guard as Biden. But give him time. In any case, Indiana needs him much more than the country does at this point if he really wants to make a difference. He should come back here and run for governor and fight the right wing here.
Can we stop this petty time-wasting and keep the focus on educating the public about the failure of Trumpence across the board and the benefits of the progressive programs that both Bernie and Warren are proposing?
6
Sooner or later one them is going to have to drop out. If it's sooner rather than later than the remaining candidate will have a legitimate shot at the nomination. If they fight this out longer it increases the chances for a moderate, probably Biden (which is fine by me). I don't think the fight itself is all that significant (they were inevitably going to clash over something), but how long the battle goes on does matter.
2
CNN, you better be paying attention. And shame on you!
Abby Phillip, the CNN journalist and moderator who asked the question, should be fired immediately.
I couldn't believe my eyes when I watched the incident unfold.
First, Phillip asked Sanders not whether, but why, he said a woman couldn't win the 2020 election—something he had already strenuously denied. And something for which there is no evidence.
Then, when he objected to the premise and again denied having said that, she followed up to confirm his already very clear denial.
But my jaw literally dropped at what came next, as she pivoted to Warren. Instead of asking her to confirm or elaborate on her accusation, she treated Bernie's denial as if it were objectively and obviously false, as if Bernie were a serial liar with a horrible record of misogyny.
Discarding even the facade of impartiality, she baldly ignored his response and asked Warren, "what did you think when Sen. Sanders told you a woman could not win the election?”
She is a veteran journalist and she should know much, much better. And of course she does—which is why she should be fired.
(I am not a die-hard Bernie fan—I like a number of the candidates. I like Warren also, but I have to say, a little less now.)
CNN, which I read daily along with NYT and others, deserves heaps of scorn for their handling of this, and the super-lame tabloid-style headlines they're using to sell this garbage issue and create conflict.
230
@josh f He can deny it all he likes. It's what he said, and the script sent to his campaign workers is what it is. This does not mean he is a "serial misogynist" as you state in your comment; it just means he's an old guy whose campaign is not above misogynistic tactics.
11
@Me I'm not a Sanders supporter. But I think Warren is lying here. And all the Warren supporters who keep writing that off course Sanders is lying as he's an old man and must be mysogynist makes me ill. I can't support her if this is what her campaign is about.
BTW, I'm for Amy.
29
@josh f you are right on the money.
22
I have been a Warren supporter for years, with her stickers on my car. Now I see her whining in this trivial argument with Sanders. She is not going to be the candidate, which was obvious a long time ago. But I continued sending my support because she is a progressive. Like Morning Joe said today, the dems don’t know they are in a knife fight with the Trumpers.
4
While I greatly appreciate both Warren's and Sanders' policy positions in addressing the crushing income inequality in the US from every angle, among others-- America needs them both, along with every other Dem candidate, to focus on Donald Trump.
The Dems must stop focusing on each other (the minutiae of their policy differences, or who voted which way 15 years ago, or who is lying about women's ability to win the presidency!)
Instead Dems must focus on Trump with laser-like focus-- continually reminding voters how he is hurting Americans-- how he is trashing our bedrock American principles and values, our environment, and international alliances, not to mention his criminality and corruption. Hammer home that Trump does not give a fig about America or Americans.
Americans do not care about the Dem's past votes or the ins and outs of the Dems' policy positions.
Instead reiterate Democratic values, your own principles and beliefs, and emphasize how the Democratic Party has been on the right side of history throughout the 20th and 21st Century. The strength of the working class and the rise of the middle class occurred because of the legislation passed under Democratic administrations.
Dumping Trump requires the Dem candidates to focus on him, not each other!
4
I love that Warren called Sanders on this. He can back peddle and lie all he wants, I have no doubt he said it, and I am sick and tired of the Bernie Bros. And look at how Bernie tried to reach out and touch her during the debate. How patronizing. Like Trump stalking Clinton.
Infuriating.
Warren will be an amazing president. She has my vote.
4
What nobody seems to realize is the following: would you have a private conversation with Warren? Knowing that whatever you say in private, as a friend, may end up in the news. I’d never.
4
I've never heard a pundit say or a NY Times commenter write that a woman (such as Warren or Klobuchar) can't be president because they're women. Everyone knows that would be sexist.
But I hear and read all the time that a Democratic Socialist (Bernie) could never be elected president. Supporters of other candidates like to say "but Bernie's not even a Democrat." They say it all the time. It's dismissive of his campaign and his supporters. They label him a Socialist as if he is a USSR era communist. It's a gross mischaracterization. And they get away with it. All the time. It could also veil anti-semitism.
6
It seems Warren's stunt has backfired, if the balance of these comments gives any indication -- which it does. You could tell from this comments section just exactly what the future had in store for Gillibrand post Franken ouster and Harris post Biden attack.
5
Bernie and Liz,
Please take the high road. You are both better than this. Stick to the issues. Do not resort to name-calling and Petty accusations. Do not behave like Donald Trump.
2
@Fatso
Bernie was not fanning the flames. He was defending himself against the pundit's awful framing of the question and reaffirming his commitment to women in all respects.
3
Why is Warren pushing this issue by claiming Bernie called her a liar? Bernie almost succumbed to the same kind of negativity but backed off.
What bothers me in Warren's claims that Bernie is a sexist and wants to smear her is that it shows her terrible judgment when she's under pressure. Bernie is ahead of her in the polls, so, for Warren, he must be a sexist and wants to impugn her character. The bad judgment is that those claims don't elevate her, don't help her and certainly not Bernie. If she can't see the harm she's doing to herself and Bernie, she has no good judgment.
This is part of a pattern of Warren's poor judgment when under pressure. Trump taunts her for her claims of Native American heritage, and she takes a DNA test that proved only that Trump knows how irritate her into doing dumb things. Centrist Democrats distance themselves from Medicare for All, and then she, too, feels the need to back away from a firm commitment. That backing away may well be responsible for her falling poll numbers. She responds to those falling poll numbers by lashing out at Bernie.
I wonder if Warren has the stability, the conviction to core principles to do what she's says she'll do if elected president. She may be way too thin skinned to sort out what's important and what's trivial in supposed attacks against her.
9
@Steve C
"That backing away may well be responsible for her falling poll numbers."
I agree. It is not sexism; it is waffling on a core issue.
3
I feel like Warren ginned up this whole phony controversy to get herself back in the news with a set=up that would let her complain about why people think women can't get elected.
This strikes me as childish - to work this "drama" to get attention instead of trying to land some forceful policy ideas - or talk about why other candidates policies are good.
To flip this whole thing into whether Bernie lied about her or she lied about Bernie - no thanks. Nothing shakes my belief in Bernie's integrity and I saw all Warren's drama about this as rude and stupid.
Let's talk about what you want to do for the country and how you're going to beat Trump,
5
She's a woman, it's a woman's perogative to lie. That's according to the gospel.
1
If that's the worst you can come up with, I'm not too worried.
Certainly starting to see a pattern in the lies Senator Warren tells. I had a girlfriend who would play fair while she was winning, but if she started losing—why, she would cheat at Pictionary!
3
Count on the democrats to shoot themselves in the foot. They'll find a way to lose the election. Count on it.
2
The Dems needs to oust this poor excuse for a POTUS. Keep our eyes on the prize, and ignore the media perpetuation of this silly scandal.
3
Always with the drama Elizabeth.
This is the sound of you, nailing your own political coffin shut.
4
Honestly NYT. Are you really following CNN, Politico into tabloid journalism? Sorry to see this. There are so many more important issues to talk about and you want to do "Jerry Springer"
4
It sounded more like the moderator from CNN called Bernie a liar
11
Before this debate, I supported Warren over Sanders (they were my top 2). Now I only support Sanders. True character was shown by Warren and her campaign and it was very bad form.
8
Do you think that this article solves anything but an odd kind of manipulation so you’ve got to report this issue like every other news feed because ... like every other news feed it becomes competitive commingled with economic survival but not crucial to what this country is going through more destructive and historically nuanced
1
Why the Democratic Party felt it necessary to stage tv sponsored debates in endless succession when it knows the interest of the tv types is to generate conflict and force even more of the country to descend into the Trump abyss is beyond me. TV promoted Trump, the creepiest of reality tv stars, against Clinton. Now is preparing the ground for a repeat. And the Democrats with this debate cycle nonsense have fallen for it like a bunch of dopes.
1
I am an interested observer from abroad (Italian) as I have an american family and have studied and worked in your country for a significant amount of years; with that premise I must register my disbelief at the crop of the democratic contenders for the presidency with Warren and Sanders deep in a gender brawl and the others silently happy that they are doing it.
Trump will have the lot destroy themselves and will just easily breeze through the unfortunate designated runner, yes he is a super sexist and many other atrocious traits but not a masochist.
Saluti
3
This is a media-organized crisis for which the NYT is as much to blame as anyone. What is important is that Warren and Sanders are the two best candidates. Either of them would be an excellent president. Their parallel successful candidacies and the prospect of their joining forces at the end end of the campaign so that one can become the Democratic nominee are the best hope for the country's future. Obviously the "moderate" media want to torpedo this possibility and see one of the middle of the road three (Biden, Butigieg or Klobuchar) nominated--watch the NYT obstinately endorse Biden next week! Until now Bernie and Warren have deftly eluded the media snares. All supporters of either candidate must beg them stop this nonsense and get back on track.
6
Playing the gender card against Sanders is a truly low blow. The objective and incontrovertible facts are that Bernie has consistently been a champion of women's rights. In a 1988 interview he said "....I believe a woman could be president..." In 2015 he urged Elizabeth Warren, her very self, to run. To accuse Sanders of harboring a disparaging misogyny is nothing other than resentful misanthropy. It needs to be called out.
Trump will rhetorically exploit and demagogue anything he can seize and get away with. It's the bully's instinct. If there is a way to exploit Warren's gender to his advantage he will sniff it out. To blame Sanders for Trump's sins, is repugnant
7
When Sanders surpassed Warren in the polls, is it credible that she suddenly remembered a blatantly sexist remark, that would have been totally out of character for Sanders to have made, in a meeting where only the two of them were present, several years ago? . . . Even her most infatuated followers must be embarrassed at such crude attempts at character assassination. We already have one liar in the White House . . . We don't need another!
4
Several commenters have criticized Biden for having been harsh on Anita Hill. Frankly, I don't remember Biden at all from the Hill/Thomas days, though I certainly remember the incident very well. I sided with Thomas because Hill followed him when he went to another federal agency after allegedly engaging in inappropriate behavior at the first one. I've always thought Thomas is stupid, but he's hired some bright law clerks over the years so that, on balance, he's come up with some good opinions.
This is so made up by Warren. She was down in the polls a few weeks ago so she created "an issue" . Come on , Elizabeth.
6
I hate to see such a little thing create such a rift between the two camps. Both sides need to chill out. In a few months one of them will be the Democratic nominee, and after that both sides need to be on the SAME side. Don't let the media allow a wedge to be driven between future cooperation.
"I'm warning you kids! Don't make me stop the car!!"
5
Once again, Dems are undone by the scourge of identity politics
A rare positive note in this overlong & largely issueless primary has been the authentic solidarity displayed by Warren and Sanders
Their evident mutual respect and support has strongly encouraged
those not afraid to admit the US is in terrible shape & needs major change,
as well as an implicit rebuke to the insistence of Trumpist RPBs AND corporate Dems
that the only "real" understanding of human nature is dog-eat-dog,
& societal programs based on anything but "competition" are indulgent fantasies
In one fell swoop, Warren has destroyed that solidarity
& confirmed the existential cynicism of Trumpism and corporate Dems:
"See, their so-called solidarity was totally fake
Not even two radicals can sustain a facade of sincere co-operation in a competitive situation
Nobody REALLY cares about anybody else
When push comes to shove, it really IS dog-eat-dog"
This is the real damage done by Warren's ridiculous & completely not-credible charge vs Bernie
"Electability" IS a bogus red herring,
whether raised vs women, Jews like Sanders or, more significantly,
progressives who want the powerful to pay their fair share in a socio-economic structure from which they disproportionately benefit
Bernie Sanders is the LAST person promoting this kind of a priori disqualification
Warren knows this
For her to label him "sexist" does more to de-legitimize her own program than a thousand tweets by Trump
Very sad
3
Your sentiments are most deeply appreciated.
Matt Taibbi in the Rolling Stone calls at CNN's vile behavior in this fiasco.
"CNN’s Debate Performance Was Villainous and Shameful The 24-hour network combines a naked political hit with a cynical ploy for ratings"
11
What is it that's preventing Democrats from keeping their eye on the Fall? Warren in particular proves herself an adept political hack. She started this and persists in pushing it.
To Warren and Sanders, Listen Up: No Democrat wants to see this personal mash up. None of this will endear you to us. None of this will help you win. None of this will... help... US... beat... the... devil.
2
After Sanders denied it at the debate, the questioner on the panel asked Warren a question indicating he was lying. I think that Sanders should have said "You are calling me a liar without any proof and if that is how you are going to handle this debate then there is no purpose for me to remain" and walked off.
3
“I think you called me a liar on national TV,”
Well it was on national TV. Let's all just go back and watch it and see where Bernie Sanders called Warren a liar. He never did!!!!
Warren is incredibly smart, and smart people are wont to think fast, and she did that and jumped to a lawyerly conclusion that Sanders called her a liar on national TV. I'm not saying she's a liar, or that she is even completely wrong, but Sanders never said that!
This is the evidence for me to believe Sanders when he says he never said a woman can't win.
Maybe Sanders may have said, swing state working class men would not vote for a woman, but I'm pretty sure now, and given his long past record, Sanders wouldn't have said a woman can't win. A lawyer however might have come to that "conclusion" - lawyers are trained to do that.
This is probably a reason why Warren has the Native American controversy shadow her.
5
The objective is to beat Trump. The Bernie supporters have said they won't support anyone except Bernie (my own son says that). I like Michael Bennett, but he's not even getting on the debate "stage," as it were. Just about every post here and on Twitter from a Bernie supporter indicates they don't want to hear anything another candidate says. It's Bernie or bust.
Whether or not a woman is "electable" is something I won't even begin to address. The ridiculously outdated Electoral College was designed to keep women from influencing presidential elections when it was originally created (also to keep poor white men and African-Americans from voting). The country's attitudes toward women, under a misogynist president, are regressing. He demonstrates disdain toward women on a daily basis, especially toward strong, intelligent women. This kind of talk of whether a woman is electable for the highest office in the land reinforces his philosophy that only bullies like him should be in office.
Whether Bernie and Elizabeth had this conversation is irrelevant. Didn't a woman get 3 million more votes than the current occupant of the Oval Office? How then do we have this ridiculous fool "leading" our country? Oh, that's right: the Electoral College, which should have been thrown out with the trash when women got the right to vote and the Civil Rights law was passed. I'm 71 and I don't think I'll live to see a woman in the Oval Office, because of the attitudes I see in this country.
2
This is absurd!! Bernie has ALWAYS been a strong advocate for women. Who in the Warren camp decided this was a good time to raise this complete non-issue? It smells like the work of one of the Clintonites Warren brought on board.
5
Warren's old-grudge attacks seem amazingly foolish. So is playing the feminist card which we know by heart. This may cost progressives the nomination. Let's hope most of them see this and move to Bernie.
3
Ms Warren, you sat on the comment for more than a year, acted very friendly with Mr Sanders, and suddenly you bring up the comment now. Something fishy!
119
@Pedna I think what changed the dynamic was his refusal to own up to it.
6
@Pedna From what I understand, it was brought up after his team started circulating anti-Warren talking points.
8
@Pedna It was on her to-do list after completing her 23 and Me. Good grief, this was NOT the way to distinguish herself in the race.
18
I support progressive policy. Their issues are personal and likely both are correct but mid understood each others intent on the conversation. Warren should have got this off her chest long ago. Now is not the time.
I support both of them either way.
3
Warren has a history of embellishment. Claiming to be Native American when you know it's not an accurate representation of who you are or what you have endured, but doing it anyway in order to gain Affirmative Action benefits, is not something that should be over-looked in a candidate. I like Warren's platform, but I don't trust her, and I suspect she is distorting what Sanders said for her own advantage.
9
I wonder at this being brought up 13 months later. They seemed to be friends over those past months, and were friendly up to this debate, so why now? Something doesn't sound right.
8
Warren seems to be making blunders. The first with how she handled Medicare for all. Now bringing this up, seemingly because she dropped 5-points in the latest Iowa polls seem desperate. How can this help either candidate? It seems petty.
10
CNN trying to stir something up here...I like both of them. It is probably a misunderstanding--campaigns are more exhausting that ever these days. Either one would make a fine president.
5
I am by no means either a Sanders or Trump supporter but Senator Warren’s sanctimonious and disingenuous games of “gotcha” during the recent debates first with the champagne and chandelier attacks on Mayor Pete and now her bringing up a conversation from 2028 to swipe at Senator Sanders reveal an intellectual dishonesty and win at any cost mentality on Senator Warren’s part that will not play well with the general electorate in November. Trump was right to call out “Pochohontas” on her dishonest and pandering claims of Native American ancestry and we Democrats should be wary of this woman. The first woman President should not be any woman but a women worthy of our respect. Enough with the blatant and insulting tokenism that she is hoping will carry the day.
6
We are talking about two 70 year old individuals, who like me can't remember what they had for lunch yesterday, much less what happened in a two year old conversation.
What is disturbing is that rather than acting like a well-meaning adult and raising this issue in a follow-up conversation, Ms. Warren sprang this on Mr. Sanders on national television to provoke a controversy. She needs to understand that the swing voters in this country are fed up with this kind of negative gotcha politics. This stunt does no good for her or the Democratic party's chances in November.
8
If Sanders said what Warren claims (and not something more anodyne like, "I don't think a woman can beat Trump"), why did Warren (or her camp) wait until now to bring it up? Shouldn't something that odious be dealth with immediately?
For what it is worth, the allegation against Mr. Sanders does not square with his decades-long legislative record, his words, or progressivism in general, which he appears to be fully commited to.
This reeks of political opportunism and gamesmanship from Warrren, as well as a chance for corporate news to tank 2 progressives with one shot.
7
Another shoe is about to drop. Today, CNN is reporting that an anonymous person who is a friend of the grandson of the cousin of the former brother in law of a man who lives three blocks over, and two houses down from the ex-wife whose third ex-husband mows Bernie's lawn at his luxury lakeside estate in Vermont, has gone on record stating that three years ago, he saw Bernie and Jane Sanders sneaking through the grocery store express checkout line with 13 items when the clearly posted limit was 10 items or less. Sorry, but Bernie is toast.
11
One of the multitude of problems with Trump is his inability to act like a mature adult. Disagreement or not Bernie extended his hand after a debate, and she refused it. Is President Warren going to be rude to foreign leaders if they hurt her feelings?
9
And you wonder how Trump got elected. Democrats are eating each other alive. Warren is becoming a reincarnation of HRC. While she has good and fully fleshed out policy proposals her likability index keeps sinking. This attack on Bernie reflects on her as being untrustworthy in that she brings out a confidential conversation which if true only reflects Sanders opinion of the political climate at that point in time. But now its being used as a "me too" feminist club to smear Sanders.
If she becomes the Democratic nominee I will have serious reservations about voting for her.
8
OK let's assume Sanders said "I don't think a woman can beat Trump". That could be a valid political opinion or he could have said it to scare her off from running. Since she was planning on going after his voters what is wrong with him discouraging Warren from splitting his vote?
What is disturbing is that Warren acts like this is some kind of gender insult. If she is that sensitive she does not belong anywhere near the White House. If she acts like she is getting the vapors over what Sanders said; if so Trump will eat her alive.
But in Democratic politics you get points for being a victim of something and that appears to be her motivation.
4
Why is it sexist to say that a woman cannot win? Isn't it simply an opinion? It's not like he said he didn't want a woman to win or didn't believe a woman could handle the job. How is it any different than other discussions about electability in a race that is focused on electability or, IOW, who can beat Trump?
1
I think it is quite likely that Bernie said a woman cannot become President. And a person can say that without being sexist. I have said it in disgust. I pray that it is not true, but it MAY be reality that this country is still that retrograde.
In any case, I find it very frustrating that media outlets are so desperate to inject intrigue into a debate, that they will devote so much print to ginning up this spat. I wish we could focus on the substance of their policy differences, and stop with treating debates like a reality TV event, or a WWF bout. It is NOT conducive to a healthy democracy, and is a contributor to why we ended up with a reality TV president.
How about we stick to grown up coverage of candidates and politics?
4
Sanders is clearly lying. If Warren was the dishonest person, would she have approached him like that after the debate? Of course not. She, or I daresay anybody, would want to extricate themselves from the question as quickly as possible. Which is what Sanders in fact did do. So I am absolutely convinced that Warren is telling the truth. 99% sure.
2
Warren constantly overplays and then backs off. This is all small beer compared to mounting a credible challenge to Trump & Co. and only gives them another angle of attack for their army of trolls. If Warren is selected I will find my Hillary-peg and vote for her, but I fear the worst again. I would rather vote for reality in the form of Klobuchar rather than the Warren agenda which is less likely to even get off the block.
2
I can see Bernie in a PRIVATE conversation with Warren implying he didn’t think a woman could beat trump(wrong of course), but Bernie is the least sexist male politician and in my opinion she stepped into sewer politics to diminish Bernie. I’ve been a big fan of hers, but she showed me that perhaps she has no honor. She really disturbed me.
9
Liz was a Republican until the age of 47. Who changes their entire way of think society should be laid out at 47?Somebody looking to profit from it of course.
She was a lawyer for Dow chemical leading the fight to limit breast cancer damages.
Bernie has been fighting for woman's issues longer than Liz has been a democrat. Give me a break , who do you think I believe?
11
When Warren ran for the Senate in 2012, I was approached by her campaign to organize environmentalists in Western Mass for her. I told them I'd organize environmentalists, if she promised to put a jobs bill on the table if elected.
I was told 'job creation wasn't her issue'. I told them electing Warren wasn't mine. Any Democrat who doesn't think job creation isn't important - especially after the economic crash - is just another neoliberal in radical drag, trying to pull a fast one. Now that she's playing it like the Clintons, I know what she is.............
More than one person can tell tales out of school, Liz.
6
Interesting views in this comment section.
Those siding with Sanders cite Warren's history.
Those siding with Warren cite men's history.
Just my take.
4
I can’t help but think that the Neo-Liberal power structure is just roaring with laughter at all of this.... divide and conquer. Straight out of the GOP playbook.
5
Memory can be quite faulty under the best of circumstances and if an individual is even slightly ill or overly tired it gets much worse. As an example I recently had a relatively mild flu like illness and during that time while watching Jeopardy it seemed to me that almost every clue was one I had heard recently (though I couldn't remember most of the correct responses). The feeling of familiarity was quite intense and convincing although I did think it was implausible.
2
Who's paying someone at CNN to keep this going? There are many who hope someone like Warren is finally elected, but wonder whether our adolescent nation is ready to grow up beyond the old boy network and do so. We lag behind the rest of the world, and look what we got last time out.
10
@Henry
No, not at this time, are we hoping Warren is elected. Bernie has spent his life fighting for the dignity of others, and Warren jumps on his back? For gain? She doesn’t understand what his fight and our fight is about.
3
Everything I know about Elizabeth Warren tells me she would not get something like her assertion about what Bernie Sanders said wrong. She is highly educated, a lawyer, and a law professor. She has command of facts. She is a detail person.
8
@Earl
And she suddenly believes it important to bring it up now? It was cheap and desperate and not done for the people. She did it for herself, as we have seen her cause.
4
And her or someone on her team appears not to be above engaging in dirty politics to take down the leading liberal in the race as her own star is fading
2
Umm she has lied before and that is a fact. White people in America love to claim native ancestry, but even so she shouldn’t be let off the hook for lying about it to gain advantages in her career.
There are those who will feel comfortable making judgments about Warren or Sanders based on the paucity of evidence at hand. I would think a law professor at Harvard would not be in that camp.
3
This seems like a desperate last minute campaign stunt by Warren who is trailing Bernie in Iowa. It just doesn’t ring true. Bernie was among the many progressives who urged her to run in 2016. If she had run , we might not be speculating on whether a woman can be elected president.
14
I agree with so many of the commenters who see Warren's move as a cynical political ploy that makes me question her character. In spite of some of her positions, which I fear will handicap her in the general election, I had begun to see her as a very strong candidate for the presidency. But this is another in a series of mis-truths that she employs when it is expedient to do so. And to pull that on "a friend" is really beyond the pale. Some friend.
16
Warren’s gotta be cooked at this point. Even were she nominated, she would need to consolidate each and every Sanders vote to win the general. The ranks of Sanders supporters must now be filled with never-Warrens.
14
That tells me Sanders voters are a cult not rational voters looking for the best candidate. Bernie helped create a lot of never Clinton’s, was it worth it?
3
Ms. Warren, oh no!! I'm saddened that you would use a tactic like this to create conflict and drum up empathy for your position as a female candidate. It's not working, we've been fed this type of manipulation for the past 4 years. You've lost a lot of my support with this move.
25
Let's stick the truth to Warren. You don't have to fight like a male politician to beat one.
1
Lied about her supposed Native American Heritage. Lied about supposedly getting fired over her pregnancy. Lied about supposedly putting her kids through public school.
Contrast this over a guy who has been saying a woman can be president, since 3 decades (check Youtube), & who, by Warren's own admission, asked her to run in 2016, which she declined.
Yeah, I know whom to believe.
33
Okay, I have a problem with the press constantly re-enforcing the strife from 2016. They do nothing but keep it going through the language used in reporting.
It is the framing. The press continues to imply that Bernie somehow destroyed Hillary's campaign and elected Trump.
They fail to correct that impression by reporting all that he did FOR her or how the DNC put its thumb on the scale along with the press to denigrate Sanders. They never correct the perception that "his" supporters voted for Trump when in fact 90% of those votes went to Hillary.
Hillary is bitter. She failed to be magnanimous in victory and gracious in defeat. She has never genuinely, without blaming others, taken responsibility for her mistakes. She should have followed the example of Al Gore who was very gracious while conceding defeat and immediately tried to unite the country.
We see the results of these failures by both the media and the former candidate to take steps to assuage the anger and focus on unity. That task is left to the so-called "outside groups". It is your responsibility to cease using wording that stokes resentments on both sides.
The division continues because you promote it.
I have a novel suggestion: Work really, really hard to be neutral. Scrub your language of 2016 tropes. Let go of your obvious bias. Be ethical.
16
Sanders is not someone I would ever vote for, but I refuse to believe he said what she is closing. If Sanders said anything it was that he did not think a woman could beat Trump. There is nothing wrong with this opinion and it certainly is not offensive, however subtle words substitutions completely change the context. I have heard (or read) that he said “I don’t think a woman can become President”. I also heard another variation that similarly changed the meaning, but I don’t recall. Subtle changes like this are the way lawyers operate.
The whole thing is petty and CNN raised it only to create controversy in what was another boring debate. Warren has problems with truth and accuracy that have to light in the last several years.
112
@JimH
Please reconsider your statement that "Sanders is someone I would never vote for" without adding "in the primary". None of us can have the luxury of not "voting blue no matter who".
None of the Democratic candidates is worse than Trump. Not one of them, even the billionaires trying to buy the race.
16
@JimH I agree, the whole thing is petty. But politics creates mountains out of molehills all the time, so here we are.
Chances are, even Sanders and Warren may never agree about the exact words that were said almost 2 years ago during a random conversation, especially with pride and running for President now in the mix. I do think that if they were friends, one or both of them could have said something like "we may have misinterpreted each other back then". In the context of the debate confrontation, I think Bernie should have used that one and defused the whole situation, but of course Warren could have done same after her campaign leaked the whole thing.
Does Warren have truth/accuracy problems? Other than believing family claims of deep Native American kinship (proven by her doing and revealing the DNA test - stupid if she was consciously lying), and evolving her ethics over time about some things she now rails against, what are those problems?
On the other hand, I understand that Bernie - or at least many of his people, like these Bernie bros I hear about - may have some implicit misogyny lurking in their psyches; and maybe even not so implicit for some. I think there is a little American misogyny at work in the tendency to believe Bernie wholeheartedly but give Warren short shrift. Sort of like all the flak Hillary Clinton has taken for decades, with nothing proven, while proven criminal Donald can shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose supporters.
5
@JimH I believe the disagreement revolved around Warren accusing Sanders of saying he didn't think a woman could win the 2020 election, presumably against Donald Trump, exactly what you say he may have asserted if anything. It's certainly a reasonable opinion to hold and isn't in itself misogynistic, it is simply the assumption that enough Americans are misogynistic enough to not vote for a woman candidate: something that some polls show evidence of.
I think it's perfectly possible that Warren believes that Sanders said this when he may have meant something else and see no reason to not believe Warren in this case. Regardless, the news coverage on this has been blown out of proportion and I agree that CNN's initial release of the conversation was to lift debate ratings. There are a lot of wild accusations now being thrown out by both candidate's supporters when the most likely scenario is that it was a genuine misunderstanding leaked by mid-level staffers and released by CNN for clicks.
9
It's when things become difficult that real character is exposed.
The campaign is difficult now and Elizabeth Warren has finally displayed her character by going over to Sanders in anger and refusing to shake hands.
To make it even worse for Warren, she was the one who started
this by bringing up an old story that can be easily misunderstood.
Elizabeth Warren did some harm to herself and didn't help the democrat party in the campaign against our current unfit president.
178
@M.W. Endres - agree completely. It seemed like a petty complaint from the start - even I, a liberal woman, have wondered aloud whether a woman could win in this sexist society. (Though, true, Hillary DID win the popular vote.) Still, to see her act in this way - refusing to shake hands - seemed small, and it made me angry. Had to donate to Bernie in response.
20
@M.W. Endres Sigh. I will have to check, but the way I understand it, someone or someones in Warren's campaign leaked the issue; Warren merely refused to deny it, because she believes it is true. Itchy-fingered underlings do "stuff" all the time, in all endeavors (just ask Iran), but when what's done is done, how do the principles deal with it? As this article points out, Bernie and Bernie Buds did a number on Clinton in 2016, and may be arguably the single biggest reason why she lost, if we want to rank the reasons.
The way Warren has reacted makes me inclined to believe it was not her intention for this to become a thing. However, once out, these two stubborn people were probably doomed to call each other a liar one way or another. Especially when a CNN moderator asks about it in a way specifically designed to create that situation; I mean, the way she asked was obviously designed more to create a sensationalized rift than to elicit information.
"To make it even worse for Warren, she was the one who started this by bringing up an old story that can be easily misunderstood."
Uh, not exactly. Let's for a moment hypothesize that maybe in a weak moment, Bernie unconsciously said exactly what Warren claims, or at least came close enough that Warren has reason to think that's what he meant. That would mean Bernie "started" this. Maybe it's Bernie who made the original mistake? He's not infallible, whatever one thinks of Warren.
7
@Barry Williams
" Bernie and Bernie Buds did a number on Clinton in 2016, and may be arguably the single biggest reason why she lost"
Please, please stop it with rehashing 2016. The perception that Bernie cost Hillary the election is beating a dead horse probably first seeded by the Russians.
It discounts Russian interference, not campaigning in the upper Midwest, having supporters who were nasty, self-righteous, and condescending to others, thinking Republicans would vote for her, and being an uninspiring candidate. Nice. She is off the hook.
Hillary owes it to us all to say, "I deeply regret ignoring Democrats in the state where I failed to campaign. I should have been there instead of red states were I could not and did not win. It cost us the election. I apologize."
She can't say that because it isn't in her skill set, but it would help. Since that won't happen, let's stop rehashing it. It is divisive.
15
Sanders maintained excellent composure during what had to be an extremely frustrating moment and exchange.
18
The commenters here, many of whom will deny any unconscious sexism or bias, appear to continue to deride Warren and defend Sanders. Indeed, women continue to be punished far more severely for PERCEIVED dishonesty, as the article points out.
Whereas the most logical conclusion from any fair-minded observer - seeing as none of us were present and there is no evidence or secondary party to confirm communications - is that a misunderstanding likely took place here. One thing is for certain, conservatives and progressives alike have much to answer for as to why they continue to treat women less fairly than men, for real and perceived faults and errors.
A side note: I continue to be worried about the cult of personality that lingers around Bernie Sanders, perhaps less from him, than from his loudest supporters. While I can appreciate that he inspires certain factions of the left, politicians in a democracy, and really anywhere, ought not to be viewed like “saviors” — it creates irrational expectations, but also leads to refusal by supporters to clearly see shortcomings of a (potential) leader. We already have a cult of followers in MAGA supporters, and I am worried that factions of Sanders supporters too often resemble them. Neither party and certainly the country does not need that. We all need to be clear-eyed, regardless of who we support.
10
If Warren wanted to clear things up, she easily could. She could explain the context of the exchange, but instead she has said just enough to imply guilt for Bernie and then immediately goes to "I dont want to discuss it."
You can't have it both ways. If this is a bombshell that he dropped in private, treat it as such and tell us the facts. Her actions and statements imply this is something either she knows is really nothing and is just dragging it on for political gain, or it is an outright fabrication.
15
This argument can only be destructive to progressives all around the table. There is no way that either of them harbors any old fashioned ideas about any identity groups. But Fox is going to tear it up to make them both look bad. Move on. Use this fork in the road moment to realize that their mutual constituencys comprise the plurality or even the majority of the Democratic Party and that at some point they need to be united in order to define the Party’s principals no matter who is ultimately chosen. It was a great debate. They all seemed to have fun and the exchanges seemed to signal a reasonable plan to implement universal health care.
7
We really need to stay focused on the task at hand. Getting DJT out. There must be more important stories to write about.
13
He should have said he was having a senior moment, and remembers it differently. Oops.
4
@Vicki
Right, because ageism is so much more acceptable.
We all hear things and remember things differently. That is not an opinion; that is a well researched fact. It is not a function of age.
It is also why it would have been so much more helpful for Warren to check back with Sanders himself if she thought he was saying a woman cannot become president. I fault neither of them for having a miscommunication. That isn't the issue.
The issue is she that told others, not him, and someone reported it to the media. That was dirty. It was also fourteen months after the event. That makes it suspicious as to the intent.
Both could have been prevented by simple, direct confrontation and discussion by the parties involved. She needs to apologize for that.
10
Same can be said about Warren. As she suddenly takes a dip in the polls, desperate times call for desperate measures. Her apparent anger post debate looked pretty well rehearsed to me. Her actions tend to lack truth and genuineness, from suddenly needing to grab a beer and drink it in front of the camera to display her “realness” to lying about her heritage.
3
I don't agree with Trump on much, but maybe he is on to something when he says "She's just like Hillary!
12
Okay, so you still prefer Trump to Hillary? All these comments reek of bias against women. Bernie has lied plenty and what he did to Hillary gave us Trump. Don’t do it again.
1
In this age of nonstop lies by the president, it seems quaint that people care so much about this. If this really was a calculated lie it seems very poorly calculated. Both are getting ripped to shreds by this.
Or is it possible that one of these retirement age people didn’t remember precisely what was said a year ago?
Rather than trying to play judge and jury about what happened in this witnessless conversation, why not just admit that we will never know for sure and get on with defeating the liar in chief.
5
@Ted Flunderson
Ageism is another bias no better than racism or sexism.
In fact, no one at any age "remember[s] precisely what was said a year ago". Eye witnesses to crimes do not give the same report. We see what we believe, the not the reverse.
Of course, Sanders had just been called a liar by CNN, and all he was doing was denying her version of events. But feel free to frame it any way you want. The press's hatred of Bernie only seems to bother his supporters, while simultaneously making him stronger.
15
@Andrew G
Can’t keep good people down!
1
The idea that Sanders exhorted Warren to run for President in 2016 and then told her that a woman couldn't be president in 2018 makes no sense. Especially given that, well after this supposed moment of privately-expressed sexism occurred, Warren continued to publicly support him and endorse him, and so on.
It's an obvious attempt by Warren to try and smear Sanders for political advantage by having some "anonymous" campaign source float the story to the media, and then seem like her hands are clean when she partially confirms it, because she can pretend to not be the one who put the story out there.
The attempt to split the difference with some guff like "nobody's a liar, nobody's a sexist, it's a big misunderstanding!" is facile. Someone is a liar: it's Warren.
11
Question: Didn’t Warren lie in order to achieve professional gain?
Answer: Indeed she did
11
Over the past couple of months, Elizabeth Warren has proven that she is not qualified to be the Democratic nominee nor the POTUS. Starting with her having no plan for Medicare for All, then her attacking Mayor Pete while she had recently met with high dollar donors in a bank vault (could you make this up), and then this entirely staged event on CNN.
Warren presents herself as "a teacher" when in reality most of her career was as a Harvard Law professor who spent more time doing consulting than working as a professor. She was dishonest about being a Native American (yes, I know about her family stories - they don't make you Native American neither does a tiny trace of Native American genes. She is loose with facts, at best.
The entire CNN debate was a total set-up by one desperate candidate who will soon be a footnote in history.
16
@David
Warren has spent her whole life manipulating her way forward through a false narrative of strategic victimhood and that is all she offers the country.
2
Elizabeth Warren is probably right. Bernie probably did say that to her in a private conversation months ago.
There are times in life when you can be correct but you are still wrong. Much depends on your perspective.
This is an example of Senator Warren's poor perspective.
Perspective--- " The capacity to view things in their relative importance".
Elizabeth Warren loses here even if her facts are right.
This was a mistake for Warren at a very sensitive time.
The microphone was on and Elizabeth Warren was exposed
for using poor judgement.
9
Sanders may have said "maybe sexism played a role" in the Trump election. What he intended and what she heard were probably not the same.
8
@Kay Sieverding That's what I believe too.
I mean Warren says "I think you called me a liar on National TV."
We can all go back and rewatch the debate, and no where does Sanders explicitly call her a liar!
it's a bad stunt on her part that makes her look bad. it's clearly a created event designed to make her look "tough." as noted by others, if this were so offensive to her why was she so friendly with him for so long after it happened? this drama is probably going to make people step away from both of them.
10
@middle american
"this drama is probably going to make people step away from both of them."
I believe that was the point for CNN and the rest of the media.
Mission accomplished unless we become more aware of attempts to manipulate us. If CNN can do it, so can the Russians.
3
Warren’s obvious distortion if not outright fabrication at the heart of this victimhood ploy is perhaps an acknowledgement that the DNC and its corporate founders will not permit even a mildly progressive candidate this cycle. She is gambling that her attack on Sanders will position her favourably with whichever candidate the owners of the Democratic Party choose as their standard bearer. At the end of the day, Attorney General might be her ultimate goal. Let’s hope so, she obviously lacks the temperament for the Oval Office, or even Oval Office adjacent.
6
I am genuinely surprised how many in the comments think Warren is outright lying for political gain about what Sanders said in a private conversation to her. None of us can read minds but nothing I have ever seen coming from Warren suggests that she plays a political game of deceit, especially when all cameras are on her.
3
This dispute may be a good opportunity for both candidates to show their abilities in conflict resolution. When either is elected president, they will have far greater confrontations to deal with on the world stage.
5
I do not care for either of the two, but warren has a history of lying to get ahead. Love him or hate him Sanders has been the most consistent candidate in the contest. I hold out hope the Bloomberg or Klobuchar gets the nomination. I believe Sanders did more to sink HRC in the last election than the Russians ever did....he looks like he might be going for two for two.
5
@hannstv
Let go of 2016 or risk a repeat of it in Trump's re-election. Your comment works in his favor.
1
The liberal left wing and the moderate centrists will continue the "family squabble" thought the campaign season, only to deliver the country another four years of the current monstrosity. The media is rabid for ratings, and therefore all in when it comes to stoking the Warren-Sanders dispute. Would you all stop bickering, reach a consensus platform, stop with the my-way-or-the-highway, reach out teach other and unite, please?
5
Well, Bernie’s people are in it for the long haul. So, someday, and I hope while Bernie is still alive, the Democrats will be known as the party of the people and not the party of elites who sold their souls to the heartless corporations and those who put money over the lives of our people. I walked in a parade for Bernie with a young girl from PA whose father and mother had divorced. Her dad was laid off in the 2008 downturn. Unable to pay his bills, he rationed his insulin, and died. She said, and I agree, we’ll just keep building our revolution until all the people understand. And then, as the old saying goes, after they have ignored you, laughed at you, and fought you, —we’ll win!
9
That's right Rebecca! We need to keep our eyes on the prize, the welfare of the people in this country. We can grow strong again and all prosper.
6
"While Mr. Sanders’s hard-core base has rallied to his side, much of the Democratic electorate still harbors feelings of resentment toward Mr. Sanders for his conduct toward Hillary Clinton during the 2016 presidential primaries.
And in a conflict heavily focused on which candidate is telling the truth, Ms. Warren faces a real risk: Several studies have shown that voters punish women more harshly than men for real or perceived dishonesty."
You can see these two observations playing out in the comments, between supporters on both sides.
A thousand to one it was a perceptual difference in their original discussion, as occurrs between any two friends. The media - including the NYT - has done the voters a disservice in focusing on this as the high point of the debate.
They are both thin-skinned on the honesty point, are any two people who value their honesty - but it was an incredibly stupid issue for BOTH of them to discuss in view of cameras and microphones.
1
This is Elizabeth Warren's "Dean Scream" moment.
I like her, but this torpedoes her candidacy for me. And don't tell me it's because men can't handle aggressive women. Denying the handshake was petty, and the "so you're calling me a liar" is something you hear bullies say.
14
I’m a woman, between the two I leaned more towards Warren than Sanders. Today, if I had to choose, it’d be Sanders. Warren”s little performance seemed too calculated.
17
I don’t understand this thinking...that this one exchange has that much power to ‘turn’ people away from Warren. My God...as women, can’t we give her the benefit of the doubt and not let this exchange change anything? This is our problem as women FOR other women. Let’s stop sabotaging our sex! As it pertains to this little exchange in question, if you were for Bernie, stay that way. If you were for Elizabeth, stay THAT way. This is ridiculous that the debate snippet should make anyone change their minds.
2
@Melmo
Who was it that said, 'When someone shows you who they are, believe them !'
This 'debate snippet' showed me that Ms. Warren is hard core passive-aggressive.
It changed many voters minds.
If there is any footage of Warren herself actually saying Sanders told her a woman could not win, it has not been seen in my living room, or on my computer. I have to assume that allegation came from misinformed staffers, or possibly from troublemakers outside Warren's campaign, not from Warren herself.
During the debate, when she had been invited by an irresponsible, loaded question, to confirm the allegation against Sanders, Warren very deliberately did not confirm it. If you think otherwise, go back and watch her answer again.
Warren did, however, try to frame a non-response that would leave the question hanging in the air, as if it were valid. Judging by the comments here, Warren did accomplish that.
5
Dear Elizabeth and Bernie, please immediately make a public announcement that you’re joining forces on one single progressive ticket forming an early alliance and shut this whole media circus down. We all know it’s a complete distraction to divide the progressives and keep the status quo. Don’t play into it.
Warren/Bernie 2020
*Or the other way around either way I’m fine with it as long as they are progressives!
8
@CJ
After her refusal to shake Bernie’s hand, I’m not sure she is on our side.
2
Ranked Choice Voting would alleviate much of the angst of being two similarly popular for similar idea candidates. Same goes for the moderates.
Historically, RCV lowers rancor and ad hominem.
6
@James Siegel
It also makes it harder to alter votes for nefarious purposes.
Warren is a fighter and obviously feels betrayed. She has stood with Bernie side-by-side defending progressive goals. For the most part she has been a punching bag while Bernie stood behind her unscathed. Bernie broke the pack with his anti-Warren script for his supporters. That releases Warren from having to be Bernie’s punching bag. You could see the change in the debate. The moderators finally asked Bernie to answer for Bernie’s bill, not Warren. Warren did not have to tag team with Bernie. Warren did not have to rebut for Bernie. Warren is on her own now. The “I’m with Bernie” Days are over. All the better. Let him stand on his own. If it weren’t for AOC, Bernie would not be where he is right now.
9
@Ed
Sure. While Bernie has fought for the dignity of others his entire life, she fights him? Get off his back!
8
@Ed if it weren’t for AOC, Bernie would not be where he is right now? You’re joking right? If it wasn’t for what Sanders did in 2016, AOC would still be a bartender.
6
I think Warren just sealed her loss to Sanders in Iowa.
Of course which factions of the DNC fracture themselves in these primaries is still anyone's guess.
I just wish there was Ranked Choice Voting so we knew who could satisfy the most voters by electing for them a top 3 choice rather than a bottom 3 choice as the case may very well be.
8
Hoping really hard that one of these two gets the nomination. It would give Trump a landslide victory. Praying.
11
@Rose M
Bernie won’t give Trump a landslide victory because I know there are many independents waiting in the wings to deliver Medicare for All to the people. There are a few Republicans, too, because I remember knocking on one door, where the man, a quite charming old and a refined person, told me he was a Republican, but he would vote for Bernie. I will be the happiest girl in the world, too, when the people once again understand and care for the basic needs of man.
11
Even though this is an extremely petty issue, Warren comes across poorly to make such a big deal out of it. In that sense, it is a huge issue...how can we elect a president with this mind set?
17
@Marc Seems like a repeat of her doubling down on Native American DNA, in terms of pettiness and miscalculation. Both seem irrational to me, and she has shown cogent reasoning, as a rule. This alenates those not committed to her, and the committed, well, she has them already. I don't get either move from someone so obviously smart.
1
The humanitarian in me says Warren naively followed the orders of the smart people, staffers left over from Obama and Clinton. This could well give us four more years Trump. Bernie raised four million dollars in the two days since the "smart people", decided to give up on trying to beat him on issues by going scorched earth so maybe they're trying to help.
12
@Ross
Warren has been in communication with Hillary, and they have become closer from what I have read. That is a mistake. Hillary's advisors did her no favors, and they included the notorious David Brock who called Anita Hill " a little bit slutty and a little bit nutty." (How is that for sexism?)
If you surround yourself with people like that, you get this.
Warren, get better people.
2
This is a big loss for Warren because under pressure she lost it - in public. The Presidency is nothing but a pressure cooker. This is a situation that should have been handled in private -as Bernie tried to say at the time at the time.
22
Not a story, simply a distraction that is seeking to break solidarity among progressives, of extreme- and moderate-progressive voters. Don't get played by the media and it's desire for a centrist hack. Sanders (my preference) and Warren (also good), are miles ahead of other candidates, and a galaxy apart from the Orange guy. Let's stay focused on the real target, not gossip, poor reporting, and a viscous spin machine.
18
@Maverick
And let Warren accuse Sanders of downright lies until she wins? She picked the fight, with her corporate buddies. Make her apologize to all the people who donated money to her campaign, believing she was decent and fair. She’s a snake!
1
I'm afraid they are both burned by this incident which Trump's supporters here and abroad will amplify and repeat over and over. The is what Trump needs: make liberals hate each other. They both have to shake hands and drink something together.
7
CNN handed her the script and she read it. It sounded so off the cuff, didn't it? Bernie is now the victim which clearly destroys Warren as victims are superheroes to Dems.
7
Elizabeth Warren has lied so many times it's difficult to trust her any time I see her lips move. In addition, everything for her is a fight, to the point that nothing is a fight. I like the basis of a lot of her ideas, but I think she's a terrible candidate and would get eaten alive my the Trump Circus. Amy Klobuchar, while not as satisfactorily liberal as Warren, is a far better candidate and in many ways is the class of the field, man or woman. Mayor Pete might be the best tonic, though, to face off against Trump. He's everything that Trump isn't...politically experienced, intelligent, a veteran and...he's gay, which might place him off limits to Trump's derisive characterizations he makes of opponents.
9
This is not a good look for progressives. I've been a joint Warren / Sanders supporter this entire cycle and this hasn't changed that, but the progressive wing of the party cares more than the typical voter about something like implying a woman can't win. I'm having a hard time seeing Warren's rationale for this maneuver. What good does it do for her to push Sanders down when they both look unlikely to win the nomination at this point. Also Tom Steyer is no snitch, good man.
6
This will ruin Warren. Trite. Petty. Not presidential.
She should have never brought this up.
30
@David Jacobson
Hope so! Picking on a man who has been fighting his whole life for the dignity of others? Get off his back!
Sanders has repeatedly described Warren as a friend and a supporter, and that comes with experience of many years---many more years working with her than had by any of those trying to create fights between supporters.
After watching Bernie eviscerate talking heads and pundits on live interviews on everything from Fox to MSNBC who tried to misrepresent him, my take is that he does not suffer fools. Bernie is the main reason that I will not regard Elisabeth Warren in a negative light either, despite the manipulation by media to get progressive supporters of either candidate fighting.
I don't suffer fools either.
12
Then you’re doing Trump’s work for him. If you didn’t lie, but someone accuses you of lying, and you don’t ‘suffer fools’, wouldn’t that mean you wouldn’t suffer being accused of something you didn’t do?
Not even the far left can satisfy the far left. They will gleefully eat their own.
You cannot appease them.
And come the general election they will not show up to the polls (as usual) because nobody but their mom is pure enough for them.
Don't try.
Don't bother.
11
@Will.
Very helpful comment. I am sure that will push turn-out - or wasn't that the intent?
@Will.
Actually, we don’t eat our own, but we will toss out an imposter.
We will never know the truth. However, what if (hypothetically), Bernie was stating what he thought was the state of voters, that Americans were not ready to elect a woman president? If he wasn't expressing his own personal preference but a perception on his part. Does that make him a sexist? I don't think it makes him a sexist anymore than it makes Megyn Kelly a racist in pointing out that when she was a kid things were different.
7
Bernie to EW: You should have heard what I called you in the green room.
There are moments that really define the character of a candidate. This one does not elevate Elizabeth Warren.
17
Look, she thought he said it, he says he didn’t. It is a misunderstanding between candidates, a tempest in a teapot. Why is the NY Times making such an issue of this? Leave them alone and let them sort it themselves.
11
He thought that she said that he said ... sounds a lot like Trump’s impeachment.
2
Let's drop this thing and just focus on getting every female of voting age to vote. Then we'll know who's believable, authentic, relevant, watchable, likeable, laughable and all the rest.
6
As a millennial woman, I would love to see a woman as president! I particularly admire Senator Warren and her intellectual tenacity. I also appreciate Senator Sander's staunch stances, even though I disagree with him on some issues. After seeing this kerfuffle, I'm not sure what to believe or which side to take. This situation just goes to show how mired candidates can become in political jousting. I really don't think Senator Sanders is a sexist, maybe he just said something off the cuff and regretted it later? In any case, I hope he apologizes or apologized. This conversation should have stayed between the candidates. I do believe this publicity prompted the pear down of the candidate pool to former VP Biden, Mayor Pete, and Senator Klobuchar. At this point, especially after seeing this quarreling between the senators, I'll just vote blue no matter who!
3
@JM
I hope you understand that Sanders offered an opinion on who could beat Trump, not whether a woman could become president. There are different things.
1
@nora m Yes, I understand it was his possible perception of society. Personally though, I was just expressing my own belief that a woman can become president. I still think this conversation between the two is private and unnecessarily being promulgated by the media. Bernie should still apologize if he said this.. Liz looked upset at him denying it.
1
I'd be elated with either Warren or Sanders as our next President. Both have the courage and smarts to address the two main issues facing us today: the near extinction of the planet and the middle class.
Can either win? This much I know: Sanders and Warren need to come together quickly, and make peace in public, or Biden's the nominee.
Biden is not likely to defeat Trump. He has an "appearance" of corruption far worse than "Hillary's emails". And his transactional record in the Senate would be effectively attacked by Trump from the left and the right.
Trump's talents (with which he defeated Hillary) are to entertain (he was a professional entertainer, a TV star) so he gets most of the attention, and to create a "false equivalency" with his adversary. He's aided by the media, whose "both sidesism" ideology establishes credibility for ANY claims, even ones the media knows are outlandishly false.
Biden's "establishment" record can easily be turned into a pinata for his Crime Bill (incarcerating millions of Blacks); his Bankruptcy Bill (leading to countless foreclosures and lifetime student debt); his Iraq War vote (a majority of Dems in Congress voted against the War); the bank bailout; and his refusal to hear Anita Hill's corroborating witnesses.
Trump would be able, again, to use his crude and racist style to posture as the "anti-establishment" candidate--the same way he did in 2016 and the same way "cowboy" George W Bush won twice.
8
This is petty stuff. The facts are clear the voters chose a woman in the last election that the outdated electoral college undercut. That issue is deserving of a national debate. The issues of The Nation, the world for that matter, are dire. These issues require strong leadership that can break through the clutter with a sense of urgency that can restore the U. S. Office of the Presidency as a trusted and respected world presence.
2
Well, this didn't take long!
Let me get this straight: Warren has a private conversation with Bernie and then decides to reveal to the press (so to make hay of it) that Bernie told her that he doesn't think a woman can win the election; And of course the immediate assumption about that is that Bernie, therefore, is sexist.
Then, Bernie has the temerity to defend himself and denies that he is sexist and that he never said any such thing. Then, knowing that, since this all was done just before the final debate before the Iowa caucus, the question would have to be asked during the debate (the entire reason she revealed it to begin with), he has to deny it again, and Warren gets to play victim, since by denying that he ever made the statement, he thereby called her a liar on live tv, calculating (correctly) that this newest outrage will cause female Democrats to reflexively rally to her--because enough is enough! Bernie gets flustered and red faced (more even than usual)...
If I were advising Bernie (and if Bernie took advice) I would have told him to say that, although he would welcome the day that a woman is sworn in as President, his ASSESSMENT of where the majority of the country is about it is that it does not look feasible this time around. This would not mean he is sexist (i.e. that a woman should not be President) it would mean that he was being honest.
Meanwhile, I am no Bernie fan, and Warren play dirty with the gender card makes me think maybe she could handle Trump?
1
[[The candidates’ sudden clash injected new uncertainty into the Democratic presidential race.]]
Nonsense.
This changes nothing.
Please focus on issues and policies.
Thank you.
6
I don't think it looked good for Warren. It confirms my fears about her that she comes off as a nag. Yep, I said it. Here's the definition of nag from googling: "a person who annoys or irritates with persistent fault-finding or continuous urging."
I believe a woman can and should be president (I voted for Hillary and I would vote for Pelosi), but I don't think Warren can win partly due to her personality. A good candidate has to be likeable!
13
A good leader has to be of good character. We don’t need to want to have a beer with the president. But we see what happens if we elect candidates without good character.
2
Ah, this is so sad! I support Warren, by just a tiny bit more than I like Sanders. And I've been so happy to see what seemed to be genuine friendship and agreement between the two. If either won, I'd have been happy--and now this nonsense?
Who can remember what two friends said, a year or more ago? Did they truly hear each other? Did they share a drink or two, which clouds memory?
As a liberal woman, I have no problems with Sanders saying that he didn't believe a woman could win. Hey, it's America! Are we allowed our beliefs? I've been waiting and wishing lifelong for a woman to win, yet the troglodytes keep blocking it. In spite of what I want, it might take another generation for a woman to break the glass ceiling.
I'm so happy that Warren is trying to break it, and I hope to vote for her in November. But how can I fault Sanders if he believes the Neanderthals will prevent it one more time? That's not cynicism, that's realism! The Trump voters are out there.
In the meantime, Warren and Sanders both put their own campaigns at risk, by fighting an unwinnable, unprovable "he said, she said." Please let it go, guys. Don't lose your friendship. May one of you win, so that we all win.
Enough of this, and get back to your campaigns!
2
The supposed conversation was conveniently leaked just before the debate, and the CNN shill conveniently ignored Bernie’s response to her question. I don’t support either Warren or Sanders, but I find Warren’s conduct in this whole affair to be underhanded and disingenuous.
19
I can’t stand Bernie and his supporters. ANY Democrat but Bernie.
5
@KindaScared
People who are really concerned about this country and the environment will "vote blue no matter who". I guess you don't care.
Liz says she's the only Democrat in 30 years to beat an incumbent Republican congressperson
Bernie has to correct that, so he yells at her that HE beat an incumbent Republican.
When? Liz asks.
In 1990, Bernie says.
Which was thirty years ago, Bernie.
His math and logic are so bad, but people think he'd be a good leader?
2
@Patricia
Disingenuous, although literally correct claim.
Okay, let's unpack that.
Warren has won a total of two races, one of those as the incumbent. The first was against a Republican APPOINTEE who had been in office about one year. He was never elected. It was Ted Kennedy's seat in deep blue Massachusetts. Wow! Steep climb! Who thought a Democrat would win there?
Both Bernie and Biden have run in many races for the last forty years. If you do anything repeatedly, you will sometimes come up short.
Her claim was a distortion, although it sounds impressive.
1
@Patricia which is in 30 years. So, HE is right
He was right and he didn’t yell. She didn’t even get the math right, in her trying to discredit him. Shame on Warren.
The herd is finally being culled. Warren is next to go. Quickly please. I am so tired of defending this group, especially Warren. Even I cannot vote for her. Did I just say that?
10
None of us can possibly know what happened two years ago, which makes this a pointless story. What we do know is that this is something Warren is intentionally leveraging. Her refusal to shake hands was clearly a ploy to catch the camera's attention for a coda to the debate; she was probably aware that her comment would be picked up on a mic somewhere. Bernie is no saint, of course, but he was cheated in this instance, and even more so by the efforts on the reporter's part to stir controversy. The questions were set up to keep this story going. Either candidate, though, is better than Trump.
6
Even if Sanders said that, why would Warren air that grievance now? It doesn't make sense, and I think it shows poor judgment on her part.
19
This probably will blow over fairly soon, at least "officially," but it does tarnish both Warren and Sanders. I don't like their policies (actually, I do like them -- we just can't afford them), but I consider both of them to be scrupulously honest (as I did Hillary Clinton -- didn't think much of her policies either, though).
I still think Sanders will have another heart attack before or during the July convention, and withdraw (or die), and that Biden will also get the ax for being too old, as he should. Buttigieg strikes me as a worthy successor to Biden, but his open homosexuality will keep him from carrying various swing states, and so he won't even get the nomination.
Warren WILL get the nomination, and the Democratic Party would be wise to recognize that ASAP. In the general election, though, she can't withstand many more incidents like this one. Fairly or not, she's coming to be thought of as dishonest. Unfairly here, I think (since I believe Sanders DID say what she claims), but fairly with respect to her claim of Native American lineage.
1
The wealthiest country in the world
Going negative is a viable strategy in a two way race. Otherwise, it's a negative sum game, decreasing the favoribility of the accuser and the accused.
The four anonymous sources who started this rumor set a trap for the progressive wing, and Warren fell for it. They have accomplished their mission- neither Sanders not Warren will win the nomination now.
The Democratic party has chosen to die on its anti-populist hill. Trump will win in November.
Slow clap.
6
Doctor Freud would point out that repressed memories [of a conversation, for instance] will return most insistently when the pati... er, candidate is forced to relive a similar event in the present, especially if the memory is accompanied by a strong sense of guilt . [Could be something as mundane as an innocent family tale of being Native American, or the certainty that one was fired unfairly]. Freud would also point out that the distortion in the memory is more revealing than the actual statement. Finally, he would warn against "repetition compulsion," the tendency to repeat the trauma rather than confronting its cause.
It's easy to figure out the "curse" that Sanders laid on Warren in that conversation. Bernie tried to tell her as respectfully as possible, "If you play the victim-of-sexism card the way Hillary played it, you will lose."
Warren, you just lost.
9
Too much fuzz about this, let them deal with it on their own, no need to drag everyone else to this argument.
I like both, hopefully they will resolve their issue, if not, not a big deal.
4
It's obvious that most people commenting on this article support Sanders. And to continue to support him, they have to convince themselves that Warren would tell an outright, bald-faced lie about what he said just because she's been dropping by a few points in the polls. Do they really believe that?
Apart from this, do Sanders' supporters really think he's the best candidate to beat Trump? He'll be 79 on election day, and he has a bad heart. He also identifies as a "democratic socialist." It doesn't matter that that doesn't mean what most people think it does. Trump and his underhanded myrmidons in the GOP leadership would destroy Sanders by painting him as a communist on his deathbed.
8
@DanBal
Funny, I don't know that many of the people commenting on Warren's supposed lies are really Sanders supporters. They could be anyone unless they specifically say otherwise.
The "liar" trope has been around since she ran for the senate the first time. Scott Brown started it. Trump adopted it. It is in circulation and could be easily said by Biden supporters, Buttigieg supporters, Klobuchar supporters.
Why assume is it Sanders? Bias?
Neither Sanders nor Warren can win the presidency. They should just bow out in favour of somebody who can so as to not give Trump a chance.
4
As Bernie said multiple times during the debate a woman already won the prez election in 2016 and quite handily at that. Case closed, let it go.
6
Warren made an error by raising this point, which appears to be more of a misunderstanding about what Sanders was saying or implying two years ago since Sanders does not have a anti-woman bone in his body (I am not a supporter, but respect the man). I am sympathetic to the feelings of female candidates about this issue and believe that it is a real problem for our democracy, but raising it in the context of a debate to attack a fellow candidate was bad politics. Warren should apologize publicly by stating she may have misunderstood what Bernie was saying at the time of the original incident.
6
That’s why I’ve never been on board with Bernie. I think he has a problem with women and that it was part of the reason he didn’t drop out of the primaries when Hillary was obviously going to be the candidate. I think he contributed to her losing to Trump. His behavior then and his behavior now certainly contributes to his problem with THIS woman.
11
Please consider that there may be another explanation for what you think you saw.
What a sad turn of events ...that can only help Trump. And that makes me lose a bit more trust that Warren could bring good tactical instincts to a general election campaign.
Yes, a Bernie staffer had put out a phone script contrasting Bernie with each of his top competitors, but Warren would know that candidates themselves can’t oversee every phone script, and for her to characterize Bernie as “trashing” her for her appeal to higher SES voters already seemed overstated. But to air an alleged private comment from 2018 and coming from her, not a staffer, made it into CNN “gold” - shame on CNN but Warren did make a choice, not a circumspect one. Bernie seemed very credible.
It seems her choices last night were calculated. She couldn’t say “I’m the only one who’s defeated an incumbent Republican,” because of Bernie in ’90 and Biden in ‘72. So she chose 30 to just exactly rule out Bernie, yet she should have said 29 yrs – it’ll only be 30 yrs in November. And it recalls that 30 yrs ago, SHE was a Republican.
Then she did a weird stagey thing with her face and hands to pretend to count to 30. It was not an authentic moment on her part, it felt contrived. As did the post-debate walk across stage to reject Bernie’s hand on camera and look fierce rebuking him. Now to hear that she played a victim card, that she was called a liar? No, actually, he stated his own truth. She is responsible for raising this only publicly, not privately with him first; it didn’t pass the smell test.
11
Whatever happened and was said in the past must be patched up quickly in order for these candidates to continue to prosper. They need to come out together and bury the hatchet and refrain from referring to this episode from hereon.
1
Warren has now identified herself as a identity politics candidate. Obama won the hearts of Americans because he steered clear of that. She could just run and win and prove Sanders wrong.
1
Elizabeth Warren revealed for all of us to see that she is petty and power hungry. It is really stooping low to try and use this imaginary controversy against Sanders in order to score a few points in a debate. And then she was rude to him at the end of the debate. To what end? I hope this ends her campaign frankly. You know, just because someone doesn't vote for you, gender is not the explanation every time. In fact its very rarely the explanation.
14
More heat and very little light. That was a stunt and shame on CNN and that spokesmodel who asked questions as if accusing Bernie of lying. I am not mad at Sen Warren, but I am mad at CNN and the so-called journalists trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. Even conservative Hill TV's Saagar Enjeti was aghast at the behavior of Abby Phillip.
This nonsense has nothing to do with who is fit to govern, who has a better set of ideas, what priorities will be placed highest, etc. That is what is important- not this distraction.
As to 2016, Bernie Sanders fought against an entrenched Clinton biased DNC and state parties determined to coronate Hillary Clinton. He endorsed her as he promised and campaigned where the Clinton General Election Campaign asked him to. There is no basis for animosity by Clinton loyalists toward Senator Sanders.
I would admonish those wedded to identity politics that voters will return Trump to the White House if you run on this kind of thing. I have no problem voting for a woman to be our President and have in the past, but I will not support someone just because they are a man or a woman or whatever.
"I'm with her" brought us President Donald Trump. I see this attack as a hail mary by a fading candidate. Ms. Warren is not going to win Iowa or New Hampshire and that will essentially end her candidacy.
10
is there an act of contrition Warren could perform that would help those she offended herein forgive her? Or is it more satisfying to reject her out of hand her based on assumptions and biases?
1
If someone- anyone- made the alleged statement 50 years ago, he would be pilloried in today’s United States. Perhaps even she would. That is the state we are in. No matter what had transpired in the subsequent half century. And journalists would eat it up. That is the state we are in.
2
I think sometimes candidates hide behind the "campaign". Staffers do things that the candidate can deny doing. Is this the case here? I don't know and frankly I don't really care at this point. I want to hear about the issues and how they will get their legislative agenda passed through Congress, not carping about whether each one thinks the other is electable. The people will decide who is electable obviously. I want to focus on ideas. Maybe Bernie really doesn't think a woman can be elected - or maybe he just doesn't think Warren can be elected. All these people have huge egos - otherwise they wouldn't be running for President, so factor that in too. If the focus becomes this kind of feud. it distracts from the task at hand - defeating Donald Trump.
It is surprising how many feign surprise and outrage that Sanders could even be accused of saying this. It is equally mystifying how Sanders came to be regarded by anyone as a great life-long champion against sexism.
Where have people been? It isn't a surprising statement to anyone seriously listening to what has been said, or read what has been written, since 2015.
You don’t need to leave this site as Michelle Goldberg has written numerous pieces in the Times pushing back against those publicly asserting that a woman can't win the 2020 election.
Then there's Exhibit A: which is Bernie Sanders himself. Even if people admire Sanders, and voted for him in the 2016 primary as I did, they must acknowledge that he already blatantly misrepresented the facts to belittle a woman he competed against in order to bolster a false argument against that woman.
Sanders already falsely claimed before the 2016 election that "all of the polls that have come out suggest that I am a much stronger candidate against the Republicans than is Hillary Clinton." It was whopper worthy of Trump.
Those who try to dismiss this desperately want to protect Sanders from being accused of saying something so many in politics said before 2018. It is almost impossible to imagine Sanders not having said it. Sanders has decided he can't be associated with it as he needs more than his support with Socialists outside the Democratic Party to win the primary. He must capture a large number of actual Democrats.
2
This controversy shines a bad light on both candidates. Both of them had opportunities to handle it like adults, without any of them loosing face by saying it was a miscommunication or saying they didn’t remember exactly what was said over a year ago. But they either could not do that or did not want to do that.
If they can’t even unite the progressive wing of democrats how can they claim to unite the whole party or even the country?
The fact that two major candidates of the „sane“ party behave like this on TV speaks volumes about the state of American democracy.
1
Honestly Sanders is the best chance the dems have at knocking Trump out of the White house.
the fact that anyone including Warren would bring this "convo up" after not only the time its been since, but mainly because it will cause "SJW and Woke persons" to look down on what is the best option for the president. Shows that they don't care who is in the white house as long as it furthers their own political ambitions.
The sad state of affairs is that a woman is going to be hard pressed to win against any man. personally I vote for who is actually the best(for the good of the population) and last time it was the Gary Johnson, I'm hopping not to "throw my vote away", and either have the population realize it's not a 2 party system(unlikely) or 1 of the 2 has a candidate worth voting for(also unlikely).
And again who sits atop is not all we have to take into consideration, it is the people who sit in the house and senate. The fact is very little can be done if they stay near the same as they are no matter who takes office.
(side note) The fact we allow people to vote/enact laws based off of religious guide lines is abused. people should vote/make law what is best for humanity, not what it says is best in books written by and for goat herders. Thousands of "gods" suggested before yours, and yours is based off of one or more of these "gods" you call myth.
Warren’s reaction to questioning on the matter during the debate and after the debate are telling.
Sanders denied making the statement. She chose to pivot when given her chance to respond. Only after the debate did she choose to grandstand and charge him with calling her a liar on national television.
If that was Warren’s interpretation to Sanders’ recollection, she should have challenged him right away. That would have been the right time to do it, both politically and ethically.
8
Whether or not Bernie said that a woman can’t be president, Elizabeth Warren just demonstrated clearly why she can’t be president.
10
I think that they both are telling the truth. I just think that Warren honestly misunderstood what Sanders was saying.
5
Sanders supported Warren running for President in 2015. He only ran when she declined. There are videos of Sanders saying that a woman could be President several times in his long career. He has supported/campaigned for/recruited women to run for The House, Senate, Governor and has seen them get elected. Even if, despite all public action indicating otherwise, it was some dark feeling he secretly held, why would he say it, out loud, to his female friend who was running for President? And why did she wait two years to weaponize it? And the way CNN's Abby Phillip posed the questions to Bernie and Warren was irresponsible and amateurish. It looked like it had been coordinated with Warren. No more debates on CNN, they cannot even pretend to be impartial.
9
I wish sanders had just been honest. He should have said, 'I wasn't saying in any way Ms. Warren was not ready to be president. I had meant to say that realistically, america wasn't ready to elect a woman as president. ' and apologize for whatever damage done.
3
I think David Brooks has it right: Bernie's great at getting 20% of the vote, but not so good at getting 30% or 40% (or 51%, as he'd need to beat Trump.
Elizabeth Warren can do better than Sanders (or Biden, or anyone else), but I seriously doubt she can beat Trump. He might get hit by a truck before the election but, if he doesn't, I think he'll win by a fairly wide margin.
1
I trust and respect no Democratic candidate who fails to recognize -- and act accordingly to -- the reality that we, our nation and party share one urgent goal: defeating Trump in November 2020. Any spat, bickering or feud that threatens or endangers that goal eliminates those misbehaving from serious consideration as presidential candidates.
1
Warren has always been my favorite. But this has really made me fear for the Democrats.
2
As a woman, I like to add that I fully believe that it is possible for two people to have a conversation, even this conversation, and for each to have an entirely different recollection of it, without either intending malice or intentional misrepresentation of its events.
It happens literally every day, with probably 1/2 the conversations that occur. It’s just that this one happens to be in hindsight more consequential than most.
I know sexism when I hear it, and when I see it, and this doesn’t smack of any male power play that I’ve seen, and I’ve seen plenty of it.
I could live with both backing down, and chalking this up to misunderstanding/miscommunication. I don’t hate EW or her supporters, or Bernie and will happily vote blue regardless - even if Joe or Amy got the nod.
1
At the end of the day, the only people that are interested in this so-called drama , are the elitists in the beltway and pundits who are more pro-Biden, Buttigieg and Kloubachar and a few (and I mean few) conservative democrats. This is much adu about very little. The rank and file democrats want to see Donald Trump defeated and will accept Bernie or Elizabeth or Elizabeth Warren as the 46th president of the United States of America.
1
Just when the candidates I favor were starting to crest, they do something that throws things to my least favorite.
"'It’s absolutely critical that progressives focus their fire on the corporate wing of the party to not allow a repeat of the 2004 election,' said Neil Sroka, communications director for Democracy for America."
That was exactly what Bernie was planning to do. In the lead up to the debate, the news was full of promises from the Sanders campaign that Bernie was going to go after Biden on not just Iraq, but also his trying to cut social security, Medicare and Medicaid, his promoting a bankruptcy bill that was a disaster for working families, his support for NAFTA, PNTR, TPP.
Bernie's critique of Biden was thwarted by this cynical and specious attack by Warren, which looks increasingly like a meticulously planned faux-scandal designed to blunt Bernie's attacks and prevent him from laying a glove on Biden in the lead up to the Iowa Caucuses.
The Warren campaign, working closely with CNN, provided a highly effective diversion to shield Biden from Bernie's criticism.
Why did Warren do this?
It is obvious that Elizabeth Warren, seeing her own fortunes plummet in the polls, has realized that the smart thing to do is become Joe Biden's VP and then quickly ascend to the Presidency when Biden steps down after 4 years, as he has said he would.
Warren, who has a history of using questionable tactics in order to achieve her goals, appears willing to sabotage the entire progressive movement in service to her own ambition. It is a distasteful, cynical and, I hope, bootless plan.
10
Why is it whenever Sanders is involved there's always rancor? Where there's always smoke, there has to be a fire sometimes.
2
Why is no one mentioning the script Sanders' people used to try to dissuade people from voting for Elizabeth? Personally, I found that underhanded. This reveal about their conversation came out after that. Politics is getting messy, but both Sanders and Warren (I much prefer Warren) are much better than any other candidate on the Democratic side and every Democratic candidate is light-years better than tRump. Don't lose sight of the real opponent.
1
Why is it assumed Bernie is lying? Maybe it was a misunderstanding. And why would they want to go down that road in public in the first place?
2
I just realized something ... for all these people... running for president is fun.
You just need to have a chance to win, and then people give you millions.
You can't use the money to buy a new boat, but you can use the money to fly around the country and stay at good hotels. Even your lunches and dinners probably qualify as "campaign expenses".
That's why these people are running for president, because a lot of it is fun. Even more so if you are a bit "over the hill" and looking for something to do with the day.
All you need to do is hope that you will lose, and then you won't have to be president.
3
I monitor recess at a public elementary school for 3rd - 5th grades. This who kerfuffle between Warren and Sanders reminds me of spats I hear all the time on the playground.
When the kids come to me to help them work out their disputes, I tell them I wasn't there so I don't know what happened, but it benefits both of them to repair their relationship, apologize if they need to, and go on with it. Being friends is better than dwelling on past dramas.
4
Many people do worry if a woman can win this election. Some think not. That doesn't mean they agree with this. This election is so crucial in our history.
America is actually backward---many countries have had women leaders already. And had HC for all as a right. And their citizens can get college degrees without big debt. And their elections don't depend on rich donors for financing. And they have less economic inequality.
We have to elect a person--he or she-- who can make the lagging USA a more progressive country, in line with 21st C standards.
Whoever wins, We the People must demand proper Representation for Our Taxation--- the demand of the colonies when they overthrew King George and his aristocrats. We have to demand it all over again in the 21st C.
It's long past time to elect a woman president. And we must recover the country from the damage of Trump/GOP.
If a woman loses 2020, and we still don't get HC for All, we will have to look to 2024, and 28---- for the US to move into the 21st Century.
Why did she wait so long to say this? Even if it is true, it seems backhanded and calculated. I would like to see better from the Democratic candidates with their fellow candidates. It seems so desperate which makes me like her less.
9
I don’t understand why Elizabeth Warren brought up something that may or may not have been said in a private meeting two years ago.
I can understand Ms. Warren confiding in an aide about what she remembered Bernie Sanders having said.
I can understand an aide disclosing a confidence to the media. I can even understand a leader standing by an aide who made such a mistake (and perhaps wanting pragmatically to prevent more disclosures).
But what we’re seeing here is all too typical of Elizabeth Warren: poor judgement stemming from a deeper intellectual failure to put things in correct proportion. A tiny fraction of Cherokee blood did not make her a Native American. Nations with universal health coverage all have private insurance. And so on.
There’s no way of knowing who said what in a private meeting. However, we do know who spoke out and slandered the other party, and harmed her own side by doing so. I can only hope that she withdraws from the race before she causes more damage.
11
This is perhaps the fifth article in the NY Times that deals with the veracity of something Bernie Sanders might have said.
Meanwhile there has been no discussion of the details of immigration policy for weeks, and climate change, which the candidates all said was one of the primary issues in the campaign, has been mostly ignored.
Memories are not always accurate. It Is quite possible that Sanders doesn't remember what he said, and that Warren doesn't completely remember either. A single word misheard can change the meaning.
If it had been me, I probably would have said something politically incorrect---not that a woman couldn't win the election, but that in the general election the Me Too movement could turn out to be extra baggage that helps reelect Trump.
The problem is with the confirmation hearing of Brett Kavanaugh. Democrats went ahead with an investigation even though they should have known that there might be little or no evidence for an event that occurred 35 years ago. Thus what actually occurred at a high school party might be unknowable.
And the accuser or accused might have faulty memories themselves.
Remember the McMartin preschool case? 360 children had memories brought out by therapists soon after the event that were false.
Republicans and independents might well believe that Kavanaugh is innocent, or that it is sanctimonious for Democrats to accuse him of being "unfit to serve" with so little evidence.
Maybe we should be slower to judge.
6
Warren has been friendly to Sanders for at least the past few months, including at previous debates, even though she knew about this private conversation that supposedly took place two years ago. Yet now, all of a sudden finding herself with stalled poll numbers and a make-or-break caucus only weeks away, Warren is so offended that she knocks him on the debate stage and then refuses to shake his outstretched hand after the debate?
This type of pettiness is an example of why so many voters find Warren so polarizing and don't trust her as the nominee. It is also why, despite all her advantages and formidable campaign operation, she is not the runaway leader for the nomination.
That said, although I prefer a Klobuchar / Booker ticket, I would vote for Mickey Mouse if it was the nominee against that disgusting excuse for a president now in the WH and I'll still vote for Warren or Sanders if one is the nominee.
9
The divide and conquer strategy seems to be working well, and it didn't even take much effort. Maybe we democrats need to take a lesson from republicans and fall in line....at least a little bit. Though the vitriol displayed in these comments between Bernie and Warren supporters, doesn't give me much hope.
2
Bernie's response was sensible. The conversation occurred in 2018. Everybody knows that Hillary won the popular vote in 2016. In fact, Hillary beat Bernie in 2016. Why would anyone, especially him, say that a woman can't win? I believe him. It's a red herring.
8
I love both Bernie and Elizabeth. I am fine if with either should one of them win the nomination.
Hurt feeling and lies are not an issue of policy.
Policy is king (to me at least).
Just reviewed many of the ~1,000 comments published as of midnight Wednesday, and what is clear is that the same negative sentiment that emerged in 2016 among Bernie Bros re Hillary has now come up re Warren, and won't go away.
The way to beat Trump this upcoming November is with Democrats presenting a unified front that is sufficiently broad and embracing that relates to both aspirational progressives and America's moderate center.
Bernie Bros are unlikely to compromise and will reject the above, losing the center and giving Trump four more years.
My money is on Biden, Buttigieg, Klobuchar or Bloomberg.
This time Andrew Yang didn't make the debate cut, and Bloomberg has made clear that he'll steer clear of them.
Debates are why-not "freebies" for the candidates who participate in them, but they've never moved the needle much, except possibly for the first few days. More important, with fewer and fewer candidates participating, one can fairly ask whether being eligible for a debate counts for much at all. Frankly, I doubt it.
The DNC would have Trump over Bernie. In 2016, they worked with CNN (favoring Hillary by providing questions ahead of a town hall). Their disruptions to the process will assure once again that the one candidate who can take on and beat Trump will not be the nominee.
5
Seems all Sanders said was that he disagreed that a woman could win. Not that one shouldn't win. Given our history, that's a rather realistic judgment to worry if a woman can win.
America has never had a woman president, as opposed to many countries that have. So sure, we well might wonder if a woman could win.
12
@Meredith That's also what I think Bernie said -- not that a woman shouldn't win, but that the US isn't ready for it. I think he's incorrect, but I do think that's what he told EW at that 2018 meeting.
2
My Senator Elizabeth Warren is my first choice but ,as I have said before, I have respected Bernie Sanders because he and Warren share the same progressive goals. I am in my seventies and have lived to see corporate money take over the Democratic Party. I never trusted or really liked President Clinton. But I voted for him. Senators like Biden sold out African Americans and the middle class by supporting bills that led to increased incarceration and bankruptcy. I hope I don’t have to vote for him too. Finally there are two Democratic candidates who are challenging the corporate Democrats. Together they have about sixty percent of Democratic primary voters. Only one of them will come out ahead and face the moderate wing. Neither one of them will be a viable candidate if they cannot unite with moderates. And both of them will lose if they alienate each other’s supporters. I am fed up with the vitriol aimed at Senator Warren by Bernie Bros. I will support Bernie if he wins the primaries because i want to live to see the Democratic Party of FDR again. Bernie’s Bros want Bernie, no one else will do. As a Democrat, I will vote for whoever is our candidate. Are Bernie’s supporters willing to take that pledge?
10
I'm old enough to remember the Nixon McGovern presidential race in 1972. McGovern, who ran on a platform of stopping the Vietnam war and a guaranteed income for all, appealed to my liberal Democratic sensibilities, and I voted for him (it was my first vote ever). But Republicans successfully branded his attempt to win as a Children's Crusade, and Nixon won 49 of 50 states, with an Electoral College victory of 520 to 17. Unfortunately, I think this is how it will turn out for Democrats again if Bernie or Warren are the Democratic candidates. I'm still a liberal Democrat, a proud San Francisco liberal in fact, but their promises strike me as based on dreams and flim-flam, not reality. If they're not reaching me, you think they'll be able to reach Trump voters? If we don't remember history, we may be condemned to repeat it.
18
I’m old enough to remember the McGovern trouncing and I totally agree that if either Warren or Sanders is nominated the same thing may well happen again. If we get someone out there who tells voters things like we’re going to take away the Insurance they have now and are comfortable with, and replace it with something unknown, we’ll lose big. Especially if we tell them that illegal immigrants will be eligible too.
In the first place these two candidates are promising things they well know will never get through Congress. In my mind they’re knowingly misleading voters just to get elected.
I will vote for whoever the Democrats nominate, because if that criminal that’s in our White House now isn’t removed by then, it is imperative that we rid ourselves of him by voting he and his Republican enablers out before we lose our Democracy. But to do it we have to nominate someone whose ideas are based in reality.
2
Here’s what bothers me. This conversation happened two years ago. Since then the two have enjoyed a very friendly rivalry and indeed have engendered dreams on the left of a Sanders-Warren or Warren-Sanders ticket.
We’ll probably never know what was said in that private meeting. But if what Sanders said was so horribly offensive to Warren then why is she only bringing it up now?
Many voters, myself included, like both. I’m a Sanders supporter but Warren has been my top back up choice. I also rather like Amy Klobuchar even though her politics are more conservative than mine.
So why go so negative on a personal level when you stand to alienate people like me? The only winners in this are the Democratic establishment who would prefer that neither progressive champion gets the nomination. The other winner is Donald Trump who no doubt is enjoying this little family squabble immensely.
1361
Agreed!!!
50
@Brooklyncowgirl You're smarter than all the op-ed writers employed by the NYT or WAPO.
80
@Brooklyncowgirl
Exactly!
It sounds like sour grapes from Warren just because her numbers are going down.
Why now?
Trash Benrie???
59
Warren says people should support her because of her judgment.
It showed last night, and it wasn’t good.
Until now, Warren and Sanders have been my top two choices. Friends said she’s not to be trusted because she was once a Republican. I’ve been saying that we should welcome Republicans crossing to our side but after last night, I’m seriously questioning whether my friends are right.
27
@unreceivedogma
Apparently she can't be trusted to distinguish between what's best for everybody and her hurt feelings. If her ego is so fragile that she does harm to both herself and Bernie because she feels personally wronged, then she shouldn't be president.
4
Sanders is a sexist - otherwise he would not have ignored the barrage of sexist language from his campaign towards Hillary Clinton in 2016. Sanders also conveniently plead ignorance of sexual harassment of women working on his campaign in 2016. No matter how Warren raised this issue, or when she raised the issue, she would and will be blamed for doing something wrong precisely because she is a female criticizing a male. If she is raising this issue now because her standing is falling in the polls then why didn't she raise it a year ago when she had almost no standing at all? If Bernie is so "woke" then why has he ignored one charge after another of misogyny and sexual harassment associated with his campaign? Warren is not to blame here. (and BTW I am not a supporter of either Warren or Sanders.)
425
@MSC LOL the only reason he ran in 2016 is Warren declined to run after he and other progressives asked her to. If he so sexist why would he ask her to run and support her candidacy back then? Why would he fight for a myriad of women's issues his whole life. It seems like a lot of former Hillary loyalists still trying to blame Bernie for her Loss to Trump when she didn't even campaign in the important states that flipped in Trumps favor.
If Bernie is a sexist then every man is a sexist. which sounds pretty sexist to me.
234
@MSC This is a wild accusation and it is at odds with the facts. It’s just wrong to call Bernie a sexist. He’s fought for women’s issues his entire career.
Sanders tried to enlist Warren to run as a progressive alternative to Hillary in 2016, only deciding to run after she declined. He said several times that he thought Hillary was unfairly treated because of her gender.
He doesn’t control every single person who supports him. Neither does any other candidates There are anti-Bernie tweeters, for example, who have said some horribly sexist things about Nina Turner, Bernie’s campaign manager.
And you are simply wrong that he ignored misconduct towards women in his campaign. Sanders did the opposite of ignoring it: he implemented a better reporting system than any other campaign currently has, and his staffers have a union contract that mandates equal pay for women. In other words, he addressed it head on and made sure that it would never happen again.
241
@MSC
So a low level staffer, one of thousands in a campaign, acted inappropriately and Sanders is suppose to know about it? But if you really want to go there, let us. The Hillary campaign ALSO has a staffer harassing women but this behavior was actually brought to Hillary Clinton's personal attention. What did she do? Go back and read the accounts in the NYT. She got rid of the woman making the complaint and kept the staffer. I kid you not. Bernie's co-chair is a woman. His voting record is so supportive of women he was made an honorary woman by Gloria Steinem. He deferred to, and encouraged, Warren to make a run in 2016. He only ran when she decided not to run. You can slander Sanders all you want but people know the truth. Watching Morning Joe, Mika was apoplectic at the ridiculousness of Warren's assertion.
116
Warren conveniently is bringing this up after almost 2 years when she is slumping in the polls and Sanders is surging. Warren has been a Republican for most of her life, supported medicare for all and bashed the moderates after which she released a public option as the first step which is remarkably similar to what Biden and others support. We all know the fiasco regarding her native american ancestry. The only person who has been consistent in his policies is Sanders. I don't agree with his views but I would rather believe him than Warren.
31
The meeting took place December 18, 2018. Democratic women won overwhelmingly in the midterm. I cannot believe that Sanders would go to Warren's apartment and state a woman cannot win in 2020. Sanders was the adult in the room not to get into a "I said, you said" moment after the debate. Thank you Bernie in keeping your cool.
36
CNN is awful and what moderator Abby Philip did would get her fired from an AM radio station but at CNN that’s par for the course.
Elizabeth Warren is a liar. She lied about being an Indian she lied about not sending a child to private school and she infamously lied about being fired for being pregnant.
She’s a liar pure and simple.
35
@Tom Trkula
Can’t disagree and yet -
If Warren is a “liar”, my god, what does that make Trump?
We need a new word.
1
Afraid so. Now I have to remove my lawn sign and burn it.
Bernie may have make a realistic assessment that a woman may be harder to beat Trump and that's a fact. yet I find the response of the comments here especially so called Sander supporters denigrating Senator Warren about this controversy disheartening and misogyny is very much alive and it would confirm what Bernie said.
16
I agree. Why are so many so quick to say she’s the one lying? Why is she any more likely to be lying? Sanders is not a god. He’s a man, just a man. A good man, but also full of drive and ego and strong opinions, so sure he could have said it. He may very well have even forgotten he said it and not be lying either—the comment would have meant more to her than him at the time. And I agree he probably was just trying to be realistic. But again why all the anger towards Warren? Insane.
2
The fact that he calls it Our Revolution shows just how confused Bernie is about socialism. Revolutionary socialists have always been strongly against democratic socialism. What Revolution means is that the winners grind the losers beneath their boot heels and forget them forever.
10
@Patricia No, you have the wrong take wrong on “democratic socialism.” You're confusing it with “social democracy.” Most people are, understandably, confused because the labels are too similar.
Socialists oppose social democracy, which is distinct from socialism in that it does not involve the public ownership and control of the economy that is a fundamental aspect of Marx’s socialism.
Democratic socialism, as used in the US, is just another label for socialism.
Marx's version of socialism is based in and requires democracy--economic and political democracy.
The "Democratic Socialist" label was a rebranding effort in the 70s by some American socialists--led by Michael Harrington-- to emphasize that they meant democracy in socialism, as the fundamental idea of socialism requires, rather than the not-truly-socialist, non-democratic, elite-led, distorted versions of pseudo- socialism that were in place in the USSR and elsewhere at the time.
Democratic Socialism is a confusing label and the confusion is commonplace since "social democracy" is not a label that's ever been used commonly in US politics.
Today's headline --
Warren Told Sanders After Debate, ‘I Think You Called Me a Liar on National TV’ --
Tomorrow's headline -
"Frustrated and disgusted by months of endless petty bickering between Democratic candidates, voters re-elect Donald Trump by a landslide victory to second term" -
Makes you shudder with fear --?
It should...
16
And you can thank Warren for a Trump victory.
People remember conversations differently. I don’t think either Sanders or Warren is “lying.” He undoubtedly said something about it being a tough battle for a woman to win the Presidency. She remembers him saying that a woman “can’t” win. We don’t have audio or video of this discussion so there’s no way to prove exactly what was said.
I do think this is most unfortunate for both candidates at this point in time. They both come off looking argumentative and rigid. They agree on so many issues. That this is being highlighted by the media distracts us from what’s truly important. They should each say something along these lines, i.e. “Let’s not focus on this silly argument. Both of us know that a woman can be President. We can agree to disagree on who said what. We both want Trump defeated in the next election and, no matter who the nominee is, we’re committed to working hard to make sure that happens.”
No more energy should be given over to this. It’s no-win for all concerned.
32
Halfway through the debate I stopped to make my first ever donation to Bernie Sanders for fiercely and truthfully sticking to the issues. I feel sad these two are fighting. I was secretly kind of hoping one would choose the other as a veep. If it did happen, Warren is being too thin skinned right now. Get on with the issues: we have only one planet & it is rapidly melting us all into oblivion.
29
one can see from facial motions that both warren and sanders had during the debate, that both are entering dementia. Biden comes across with less, although he is a closet Republican. Dementia or not, I am expecting that Sanders will win the democratic nomination this time
1
He endorsed Hillary Clinton for President. End of (fatuous) story.
20
Wasn't lost on me that CNN reporter, after Sanders denied making this comment, turned to Warren and asked how she felt about Sanders saying a woman could not be elected president. My jaw dropped. This is something I'd expect from the other "news" network that's all in for Trump. No, CNN, won't be tuning in to you in the future.
40
Memories are fallible. If Bernie had the decency to say that, instead of insisting that he must always be in the right,they could have resolved this.
People remember the same event differently or not at all. To remember something vividly usually means there was an emotional investment in it.Which of them do you think was more emotionally invested in the question of a woman winning in 2020?There was little reason for Bernie to recall & Warren gave him an off-ramp to say that it was just punditry & didn't represent his considered opinion.
Could she have misinterpeted what he said? Of course & he could have said that was a possibility.She could only have agreed. Spat over.
But no! He was more concerned with boosting his self & public image as some great feminist, which wasn't even the issue at all.
it isn't to be expected that Sanders is going to suddenly become some expert on human memory but if he doesn't know at his age how peoples' memories work & differ, he has not been paying attention to other people. Or if he has noticed this disparity,he has just assumed he is always in the right Either way these are 2 traits of his that are not exactly ideal in a leader.
He could have tried to work this out or been more conciliatory by the time the debate went on. That he didn't and continued to call her a liar,shows not only many of his flaws as a possible POTUS able to get his agenda passed but also that he is that strange creature, a socialist who does not play well with others.
16
@Christine
Warren, her campaign, and the MSM were all implicitly calling him a sexist. But I guess we need to protect the delicate sensibilities of Warren and her supporters and button our lips when they level baseless smears against another candidate.
And who are you going to trust in this argument? The guy who's on video in 1987 lamenting how a woman hasn't been elected president yet, or the woman who spent the majority of her adult life lying about her ancestry?
1
@Ben
First of all there was no accusation of sexism; she said he was acting a a "pundit." But appears now that his campaign is not bragging about their successful fundraising with people who like his bullying a woman.
Second if you want to know who has been willing to tell horrible lies I suggest you read what he wrote, as an adult, in the Vernmont Freeman about mothers causing cancer in their daughters
Lying about the science in this way is a lot more serious than a woman who actually did not lie about her ancestry as her DNA test proved.
1
@Christine
Sorry I meant to type that his campaign is now bragging about their successful fundraising off his self-centered bullying of a woman. No sexism accusation before. But maybe now it is warranted.
1
I don’t care about this particular incident. I do care that they’re equivalent candidates and Warren was eaten alive for her M4A plan, while no one criticized Sanders for not even having a plan. He still hasn’t released a plan. Warren, and Hillary, both have the skills and know-how to do the actual work of getting things done and are criticized for not doing it likably. Sanders grandstands and gets not just a pass but accolades. Sounds like sexism as usual to me.
28
Warren and Clinton are both grifters. The former had me fooled. The latter? I had her pegged in the late 90s.
1
Sanders has no plan, just promises.
"The sudden clash between Senators Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders over gender and honesty injected new uncertainty...”
"..., the breakdown of a longstanding nonaggression pact between the two leading liberals in the race cast doubt on whether Mr. Sanders or Ms. Warren could unite the Democratic Party’s liberal wing."
These opinions belong on the editorial page. These are examples of why I no longer trust the Times as I did even as recently as the 90s. Then it did the Iraq War lies and now these. We know Warren "padded" her resume with false assertions of ethicity. Whose to believe her now. I canʻt recall Sanders every lying. I can recall Warren doing so, even if not very much and not recently.... until now.
17
She’s unpresidential. Just like Hillary. Maybe she wouldn’t stand up to the Trump barrage better than the rest after all.
Despicable collusion by CNN.
17
CNN’s use of this audio amounts to a kind of unsavory FBI type surveillance and its release a kind of National Inquirer hit and run journalism.
They should be ashamed of themselves and the role they are playing. One of their journalists called Sanders a liar by siding with Warren and furthering sullying CN’s reputation as a kind of Murdochesque slime throwing machine.
32
I am glad that audio was caught. Wasn’t sneaky at all. Warren knew what she said might be heard.
This reinforced my suspicions of Warren.
I like both Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. Unfortunately, the rebuffed handshake has taken on far more meaning than I'm sure was intended. A bit of humor wouldn't be a bad idea.
8
People disagree about the meaning and interpretation of statements all the time. Bernie thinks he said and meant one thing, Warren thinks he said, or at least meant, something else. That’s a common occurrence between people.
These two need to sit down and talk about what was said and why they view the meaning differently to sort this out. That obviously hasn't happened yet. The debate moderators didn't follow-up to pursue asking what was said and hear both sides out.
It's being blown out of proportion at this point.
If Sanders and Warren can't agree about what was said and what happened, and what was meant, then we have a real dispute. Right now, we have two people with different interpretations who haven't tried to reconcile their recollections yet. Let’s see what they say after they try to do that.
9
Several possibilities: Sanders is lying. Warren is lying. Sanders is not lying and simply has memory issues and can’t remember the conversation. Take your pick from three bad choices.
7
I believe Senator Bernie Sanders. Period. The whole thing sounds like a smear concocted by Warren and her team to gain ground with the female vote in the looming Iowa Caucus where she is trailing. Equally disturbing is the fact that after describing him as a friend, she refused to shake his hand when the debate ended. Moreover, the manner in which Abby Phillip grilled Sanders on this topic was deliberately unfair, unprofessional, and shameful.
42
Bernie attended more than 40 campaign rallies for Hillary.
Hillary attended only 10 for Barrack.
Talk is cheap.
Bernie walks-thewalk.
69
Since America is not ready for the kind of socialism Warren and Sanders espouse, neither one of them could beat Trump.
I want Trump gone ASAP. But Bernie and Elizabeth are not the ones who can do it. The vast middle of this country is not yet ready to give up the health insurance they have or watch the children of the wealthy getting free college tuition.
It's not going to happen this year or in the near future. It's just not. AND WE NEED TO BEAT TRUMP.
9
Sen. Warren threw her Hail Mary pass and it has been intercepted. She has come up against the Bernie machine. The great thing about Bernie is that voters know what he’s about. It is very difficult to damage him because he is so well known and doesn’t hide his true self.
Warren has put out this “information” as a stunt to try to beat Bernie in the upcoming primaries and caucuses. It won’t work. In fact, it will lose her some progressive support and won’t gain any moderates in the process. She has just convinced those on the progressive fence that Bernie is the one to vote for. We are tired of these games and having the political consultants and establishment money men divide and conquer.
I expect Bernie to enhance his lead now in response to this nonsense. We have experienced a decisive event and Bernie is the winner in this one.
48
@Jazz Paw
Agree. And yesterday he raised 1.7 million in donations. And according to Robin Curran, Bernie's campaign digital fundraising director, he had his "single best fundraising hour of any debate so far" during the first hour of Tuesday night's debate: "Donors made more than 15,000 thousand donations at a rate of 250 per minute.
14
What was Bernie suppose to do? When Warren uses a past conversation as a weapon to prove he is a sexist? Was he suppose to agree he was a sexist and move on? I must be missing some here because the whole mess is showing a lack of living in the real world. It is like the claim that no one in America likes their employer health care. No one wins in uncorroborated He say She say.
14
Sanders has a reputation for honesty & integrity. Warren doen't. That is why I believe him & not her. It has nothing to do with gender. For example, if Warren said that Trump said something outrageous to her, I would believe her, because Trump lies constantly. Warren doesn't.
17
Michael Bloomberg please. Confident, smart, well spoken, self made. Would destroy Trump. Please support.
Kate McKinnon and Larry David take a seat :)
9
I used to respect Elizabeth Warren and believed I could vote for her if Bernie we’re not the nominee. She is now dead to me.
Elizabeth Warren fabricated this attack on the most popular progressive candidate the Left has had in years. This was undoubtedly an orchestrated attempt to damage Bernie and the progressive Left. Elizabeth Warren is a Judas and will never again be respected by the Left.
This series of lies began when she reacted to a document leaked to Politico that was an anodyne canvasser’s script sheet that basically said Warren was a candidate who appealed to the affluent and well educated but could not expand the Democratic base. Absolutely true.
Warren’s campaign then weaponizes this and she says Bernie was “trashing her”. Then follows this up by implying Bernie was “factionalizing the race as happened in 2016” that ended up with Trump. Two lies that are toxic to progressives and to any hope that Democrats can unify in 2020.
Warren has become toxic to the Left. As a Bernie supporter I will NEVER vote for ’Lying Liz’ and will never vote for her even if nominated. This is disgusting politics on her part and only magnifies how sleazy her campaign team is and how utterly incompetent her instincts are as a candidate.
Bernie stands tall and Lying Liz has damaged her campaign and the “MeToo” movement with her crass and accusations.
32
Much to agree with here. But please vote for her if she happens to be the Democratic nominee. Please don’t pull a Ralph Nader or a Jill Stein or no vote. Your country needs your vote, hopefully for Sanders and for any Democrat if not Sanders.
2
Please tell me this is a joke?!? Good god. I’ve really come to like Bernie but his supporters inevitably make him look bad.
2
Elizabeth Warren’s Cheap Shot.
Shame on her. Sinking in the polls, she decided to throw the “Hail Mary” out of sheer desperation. It will not work. As some of the NYT readers have pointed out, this alleged sexist remark is alleged to have taken place two years ago. If Senator Sanders is a sexist, why did she wait until hours before the final debate leading up to the Iowa Caucuses? I think this tactic will backfire on Warren. Please note that all the candidates that took cheap shots at other candidates are out of the race. Who will emerge the winner in this “She said, he said”? Joe Biden, of course.
Disclaimer: I am not a Sanders or Warren supporter.
31
Well said. Castro implied that Biden is senile and Harris probably rehearsed the "That girl was me" line a trillion times. Both are gone -- and deservedly so.
14
But why are Booker, Tulsi and Yang gone.
Now that’s a real loss.
@Tullymd, Booker attacked Biden and Tulsi attacked Harris in earlier debates. Yang never attacked anyone. I hope the eventual nominee taps Yang for a cabinet position.
All this fuss, perpetuated by the media, about a private conversation occurring over a year ago. How many of us can remember, word for word, conversations we had that long ago?! Sanders might well have said something like how hard it would be for a woman to run against Trump or that it’s a much harder battle for a woman than a man. Many people are of this opinion. Such opinions must have been discouraging to Warren, and she might well have taken away the idea that Sanders thought a woman couldn’t win the presidency. But I doubt, with his historic support of women, that he specifically avowed that a woman couldn’t win the presidency. It was foolish of her to say this and I wonder why she did. Did she want to start a fight? She surely must have known the media would create a frenzy over what she said. Neither candidate has anything to gain and much to lose by perpetuating this silliness. And the media should shut up!
12
@Lionlady
I believe she didn’t report this, another source did. All Warren did was refuse to deny the story.
5
@Hanon
She didn't just deny the story.
The video of their post-debate interaction and audio released show that she was confrontational and extremely rude over a fracas she herself created.
Even if Sanders had called her a liar on national tv (and he didn't), it's extremely inappropriate to deal with that gunning for him when the cameras are still rolling.
Is this how she is going to deal with world leaders who inevitably ARE going to lie or misrepresent, including US allies?
"Hey pal, you can't call me a liar on tv and don't touch me because I'm not shaking your hand?" This is what petulant 5 year olds do when they have no social graces.
23
If only the media could think like this, but scandal breeds profit and profit reflects the bias towards grating a so-called “story.”
Yet, this is NOT a useful story.
5
I love Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders. But I'm calling foul on Warren for being upset that Sanders "called her a liar on national TV" when she also called him a liar on national TV. Let's leave hypocrisy to Mitch McConnell.
25
National political campaigns really do get this petty and trivial. We’re post-truth now folks, so neither of them will win the argument, they’ll just slither to the next event and microphone then fold into the democratic miasma of nothingness.
Warren's biggest current challenge is figuring out how to pull ahead of Bernie in Iowa. It makes sense that she'd be pursuing him publicly after the debate to make a scene. I think it's going to backfire. Bernie correctly pointed out that this was not the setting to have this discussion.
17
I believe Warren - she is likely reporting what she heard. And I believe Bernie, in the way of many men his age, believes what he is saying is true. I find many men of this generation "forget" the hurtful things they said to or about women even a couple of years ago - I have known many who have this type of selective memory loss. They are adamant that they did not say it. Unpleasant things and comments just never happened. Trump has it in spades, but even Biden shows up with it quite often.
14
@E Campbell
What a horribly sexist remark to make. And against a man who has spent his entire political career fighting for women's rights and was on the record over 30 years ago saying there should be a woman president (this was back when Warren was still a registered Republican and cheerleader for the Reagan Administration).
1
@E Campbell I guess it’s ok to say “men of his age/generation forget”...? This is acceptable? Seriously?
In a way the whole thing began last weekend when Sanders campaign had a document spread in Iowa calling Warren a candidate of the elite (the well educated and well off) and that she couldn't win against Trump.
The Warren campaign got angry and that's why that 2018 conversation came to light now.
6
Oh, I get it. Warren can lie about Sanders, but Sanders can't respond to the lie by calling it what it is. Warren becomes more and more unappealing as a candidate with each subsequent article written about her.
37
So much for their friendship. With friends like these, who needs enemies?
I'm sure Trump is asking himself a similar question as he watches this unfold - "With opponents like these, who needs Putin?"
3
This is the corporate media and the DNC who are out to sabotage any true progressive ever becoming elected president. It's not an organized conspiracy, just a mindset that wants to preserve perpetual status quo to enable the haves and disenfranchise the have nots. They want these to strong contenders to disappear ASAP into non-entities. Trump doesn't need Russia or Putin to interfere with a fair election this time.
10
#MeToo becomes a soap opera. By what rationale did someone decide that this was going to be the issue to separate the candidates and decide the nominee? I plan to vote based on hard issues, practical issues. I'm very unthrilled at debasing the Democratic nomination as if it were a Republican primary.
6
I don't see Warren "refusing" to shake Bernie's hand. I see her not extending her hand right away because she was very caught up in wanting to address their disagreement and her belief and unhappiness that he called her a liar. As they're talking, Bernie just turns and walks away ending the exchange that Warren wanted to continue, and there is not a chance to shake hands.
A lot of Bernie fans are trying to make this out to be a big snub and lack of decorum by Warren, a sign that she's not cooperative, professional, or "presidential." Oh, please.
It was two people caught up in a moment.
Bernie just turning away and ending the conversation unilaterally without a resolution about how to address their different opinions about it was not the most friendly, cooperative, inclusive, and professional way of dealing with the situation either.
But they were both caught up in their disagreement and feeling offended by the other.
People need to stop trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. It’s not like this exchange was thought-out and pre-planned.
12
Stop bickering. This is exactly want trump wants.
The Democrats need to be unified in their candidate.
Remember, if the candidate that becomes the parties choice is not exactly your candidate, remember to go and VOTE!
3
One word advice to Democratic candidates, for the win: Focus.
1
Won’t comment on whether or not Warren confronting Sanders was the right thing to do.
Will comment: her choice of time and place stunk. Unprofessional. In the workplace the expectation is that such exchanges take place in private.
Unpresidential? With 45 in office, the bar is so low, so perhaps not.
Do I really want to have as his successor someone who perpetuates that?
No.
15
I believe in Elizabeth Warren that Sanders said it. But, not the way Warren trying to make it sound. He might have given his honest opinion at that time without any sexism in it. This is silly on both parties and should burry it.
2
I listened to the post-debate "spat." I heard Warren accuse Sanders of calling her a "liar" on national TV, during the debate. I did NOT hear Sanders say "liar" during the debate. After listening to this clip, why would I accept Warren's interpretation of the December '18 conversation with Sanders?
20
Dear NYT reporters, quit ginning up controversies with progressive candidates. They will have to clash at some point because two people cannot be President at the same time. What you are doing, amplifying something from a conversation in 2018 is unnecessary. Talk about the substance of their proposals but not personality clashed. Please.
BTW, some of us readers of the Times are well aware of the penchant of NYT reporters and opinion writers to favor so-called moderate or Third Way candidates. It was obvious in 2016 when I had to go to other publications for a more inclusive reporting.
A substantial number of us in the middle and working classes do not want another Third Way supported candidate. These are closet Republican lite folk.
8
Warrens behavior is proving correct what Bernie supposedly said.
12
Why bring it up now...when Sanders has pulled ahead?????
I respect them both, but the timing is suspicious.
Enough of this. Refocus. Democrats need to win
1
I don't understand (well, maybe I do) why the media uses this ready-made factoid about "what Sanders did to Hillary". Go listen to Michael Moore's podcast (Rumble, widely available) to get some insight about this.
Sanders rallied for Hillary in 2016 much more often and intensely than she rallied for Obama in 2008.
But, OH WAIT: "Sanders conceded only on July, hurting her campaign".
Well, lest we forget, Hillary conceded to Obama in June.
9
All I can say is that it is hard to distinguish the trolls who want to divide us from the real reasoned arguments. But if Warren and Sanders are actually fighting over this ridiculous issue, after being friends (and what they BOTH said publicly in response to the questions), then they are really acting stupid. Or this is just for show (on both their parts).
And to supporters of both of them, I like both of them, I would be happy with either as President, and I think a Sanders/Warren or a Warren/Sanders ticket would be awesome: remember, no one is infallible. Everyone makes mistakes.
After seeing what is happening with Trump, we should be more wary than ever of celebrity culture and lionising individuals in a cultish manner. I don't know if particular posts are being made by (Russian) trolls or fans but some are really obsequious.
6
Laughably insignificant compared to the behavior and insults of our current president and GOP. Next!
3
The press focus on this is sick.
6
As a mediator, I can say that people have different perspectives and different memories of the same event. I think Warren indicated her disagreement with Sanders denial of the conversation by shaking her head, but chose in the debate to focus on the question of the elephant in the room-whether a woman can be elected president. If someone turns their back on you, are you obliged to shake hands?
3
As a Biden supporter I can't really say that I care much about whether Sanders did or did not tell Warren that a woman can't win the presidency. I do, however, wonder why Warren is just bringing this up now if the relevant discussion happened in 2018. Had she been so offended by an assertion of this kind you'd think she would have mentioned it a good deal earlier.
26
Ranked-choice voting would reduce some of these tensions.
15
That's rich. She started it and got burned by the Berne and CNN. And CNN did not help by calling Sanders a liar. The question should of not been asked in the first place. This did nothing, but benefit Trump.
20
Newsflash: They are human beings!
4
A Machiavellian approach to attempt to undermine the true Progressive in the race is a choice that demonstrates poor judgement and bad character. It’s not being human. To deny more than half the country living on the verge or already in poverty, life-saving policies, not to mention the GND we need for our species, life’s survival... Thats not being human. That’s not even remotely humane.
5
I honestly think CNN is the culprit here. Why is the media eavesdropping on what was clearly a private conversation between colleagues that the third politician within earshot (Steyer) refused to play games with? I admire and respect Steyer for not using this to his political advantage, decent fellow. CNN as a media collective who would rather stoke more dispute from private conversations for ratings, not so much. I think it is fair to believe the candidates thought their mikes were off.
I think Trump should start praising CNN, they are helping his cause. And maybe we are a people could move past petty disputes, inspect our own biases honestly and then simply focus on policies instead.
24
@Nobody
Kudos to Steyer, at his post-debate 'interview' he deflected some very leading questions about this exchange with both humor and grace. He may not
be a politician, but he is definitely diplomatic !
9
We didn’t get a war with Iran, but we sure have one amongst the Democrats. I am sure I am not alone in basking in the low comedy of all of this. When the rest of us need confirmation that the ONLY thing that moves progressives is identity politics, this episode provides all the proof one needs. And, the irony of progressives here not accepting the accusations of a particular woman at face value is hard to overlook as well.
8
@LTJ
Exactly. Break out the popcorn and enjoy the progressives fighting over who’s the bigger victim. It’s beyond entertaining. And as someone that’s recently transplanted to a swing state, Wisconsin, the Democrats are delusional if they think that Trump has lost any momentum.
What is even better, is that this is not even the best show that we will be seeing this election cycle. Once the progressive wing of the Democratic Party settle on either Warren or Sanders, they will then have to go after Biden. Remember, neither Sanders nor Warren are at all liked that much by any minority group. It will be so awesome to possibly watch the Warren crowd talking about Biden being owned by the credit card companies and that he has a bum for a son making bank on all these fossil fuel corporations he has not earned the right to be employed by. This is going to get ugly. I’ll pop the popcorn.
4
Senator Warren will do Senator Sanders a big favor if she leaves this alone because it looks as if she is telling the truth and he is playing the part of an old man caught in a lie. What I have heard suggests to me that he did say — in all honesty — that a female candidate could not win in 2020. I like the Senator and do not consider this a disqualifying view, and it may be true as sad as that is. I don’t share that view and have come to think that personality trumps everything else when we vote for a President. I will happily vote for either one of these two because I fear that the American experiment has been corrupted. It's as if a crime boss and his lieutenants in Congress have taken power. How else do you explain their intent: a Senate trial of an impeached President without evidence in the form of documents and witnesses? What I sense is that we are in for a very painful civics lesson in which the two Senators may play parts. Stay tuned soap opera fans because there actually should be some high drama in Washington.
6
@Lee Eils
"it looks as if she is telling the truth and he is playing the part of an old man caught in a lie."
No, it doesn't look like that at all.
In the (in)famous words of you-know-who, "Nevertheless, she persisted." Thanks Liz for facing upto mansplainers. I can't wait to see you take on the mansplainer-in-chief.
18
The thing that kills me is why wait until now to bring this up? Why does Warren wait until it can be fresh in voter's minds for the primary to discuss something that happened years ago? It doesn't pass the smell test to me and I have been on the Warren train for a while now, but this makes me think twice.
22
@Mel Warren can be surprisingly clumsy and tone deaf for a politician. Subtlety and slight of hand are not her strong points. Her sincerity often comes off as self-righteousness which appears as hypocrisy as soon as her ambition and ruthlessness inevitably reveal themselves.
14
Disappointing all the way around. This is not the measure of the person who will be the best candidate. At this rate, the Dems will be handing 4 more years to the current WH occupant.
4
In a world where the elected POTUS lies several times a day about nearly everything that comes to mind, not to mention what he’s said about democrats, European leaders, religious leaders, activists, journalists, and women in general, it’s really hard to understand why this small and meaningless episode could be so important for Americans today.
11
This isn’t just ridiculous. It’s most relevant to just how disconnected the DNC and every one of these candidates are from where we are as a nation and how we got here. Trump must be called a liar more times than anybody can count, probably all true. Warren seems not just indignant but mortified by being called a liar by Sanders in a debate, and probably no one can or will ever be sure why. They will never get out of their own way.
2
He didn’t call her a liar in the debate.
3
Senator Warren has shown herself to be petty and thin-skinned. We don’t need a Democrat version of Donald Trump. I think she has cooked her own goose.
25
I would suggest that that is a better description of all the Berners, not Senator Warren.
6
It’s an accurate description of them both.
1
Like most democrats who fear not converting enough Trump crazies (where a large swath has proven to be racist, homophobic, and indeed misogynistic), I’m sure his comments were more along the line of who would have the best chance at being a sure thing to win the 2020 election. I’m Team Warren, but I don’t like the media attention this is getting... More important stuff to focus on and it’s an obvious ploy to help her in polls and make him look bad
4
@Joe, please. If you are going to quote from the Democratic playbook at least get it right.
You forgot "xenophobic".
1
Do I now see an opening for Bloomberg?
5
Although Bloomberg’s plan is to help Democrats win, he will help them lose. He will pull primary votes from moderates and help a progressive win.
A progressive candidate will ensure a Trump win.
If Bloomberg had a lick of sense, he would run third party. He would pull Republican votes just like Perot did. But if he stays in his current mode, he’ll hurt the Democrats.
"The sudden clash between Senators Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders over gender and honesty threatened to throw the Democratic presidential race into turmoil ..."
This is your lead? Did you pull this from a boilerplate? Shocking, really, that two people running for the same position and less than three weeks out from the first test are getting, well, testy.
4
Hopefully Senator Warren will sue Senator Sanders for deformation for calling her a lier as is now the vogue.
@james I think you meant defamation but deformation - I love it!
5
Hahaha! If anyone showed they had a deformed character it was Warren herself.
7
I think they both called one another a liar.
3
When you didn’t lie, but someone calls you a liar, does that mean you lied? Bernie has proven his entire life, he supports women in every leadership position. Warren is a liar.
8
If the shoe fits, Warren, kick yourself with it! She made a damaging claim so where’s her proof? Or are we gonna fall back on #MeToo again and believe her just because she’s a woman?
17
Ugh. Enough of this story already. Aren’t there more important things to report on? The climate crisis, impeachment, Lev Parnas’ childhood pets - anything?
4
What is the point of this tussle?
People are right to view Warren and/or Klobuchar as representatives of women and feminism. But both candidates may not want to anoint themselves as emblems.
It seems egocentric to transform a whole movement into a personal or aspirational electoral struggle. And it may trivialize the depth and breadth of the systemic problem.
It may also backfire. Bernie Sanders isn’t an ideal target. And the goal is to get elected not alienate potential voters.
People interested in effecting lasting social change might read "Claudette Colvin: Twice Toward Justice" by Phillip Hoose. It reveals that lasting change didn’t happen in one intuitive moment but through incremental steps of coordinated and carefully rehearsed efforts by a large constituency of people acting in unison.
3
Well, this November I'll do something I never thought I would do: after 45 years voting as an independent and weighing the candidates in each election, I'll vote for whoever the Democratic Party
nominates, regardless of whether it's Bernie, whom I despise, or Bloomberg . . . humphf, or Icky Twerp or Peewee Herman. Democrats need to move forward, quit trying to outline the revolution, and just focus on beating the idiot now defiling the White House and our national reputation, as well as taking a majority in the Senate. Come on Dem's, quit shooting yourselves in the foot and get a nominee, any nominee, that you can all agree to support, and then get out and vote.
6
The 40% of American adults who wouldn’t be able to cover a $400 emergency with cash will decide this election. The only Democrats who can get their vote are Sanders and Warren. Any other Democratic candidate will lose to Trump because those folks will again not bother to get out and vote.
10
@Steve - I’m an elderly starving artist who can’t afford to pay $400 in cash for an emergency. I’m also a lifelong Democrat who thinks the Democratic Party is the ONLY party that will ever help people like me and poorer people — not Bernie’s Democratic Socialists or the Squad’s Justice Democrats. I loathe Bernie. I think he and his campaign team are sexist, devious, and ruthless. And I know many other artists who feel this way about him. In the primary, WE will vote for any Democrat but Bernie.
We'll never know what exactly happened but the Times repeats, without qualification, a damnable lie, that Sanders didn't help Hillary. He went everywhere for her in her campaign against Trump.
The truth is the DNC, led by a fan of Hillary Clinton, tried to tilt the primary playing field against Sanders. Sanders didn't take revenge but many of his young and independent supporters did, voting for Jill Stein or staying home. They made Trump president.
It can happen again, particularly if media outlets like the Times persist in repeating the canard that Bernie didn't support Hillary. Repeating the chaos of 2016 may make Bernie haters happy, but if he loses in the primaries how he loses will determine the fate of the Democratic candidate.
28
@Frank, as I remember it and perhaps I’m wrong, Bernie delayed stumping for Hillary and did not encourage his supporters to get behind her campaign.
11
@Ima
Didn't get his base to support Hillary. I've been searching for a redeeming quality in Bernie. Thanks!
2
Sanders visited more states than Hillary herself in the final weeks leading to the election. He also went to places her campaign ignored entirely.
10
While we'll obviously never be certain what was said at the now-infamous meeting, one other thing IS certain: Ms. Warren's classless act of not shaking Bernie's hand shows she doesn't have the Temperament for the Oval Office . My suggestion to the senator: If you want to prove a woman is fit to be President, why not start by acting like it?
30
If Warren can’t handle lying or being lied to, she’s got to get out of politics. Most likely it’s a misunderstanding. And why bring up a private conversation from 2018 if not to court controversy? What issue does this solve? I will vote for a woman for president in a second. Not because she’s a woman, but because she’ll make a good president.
13
@Connecticut Yankee
Trump didn't, and look where it got him.
This argument is moot; the truth is the comment that Bernie thinks a woman can’t win is good news and gets people to watch a debate not many seem to be talking about because Trump is setting the world on fire on twitter.
3
This accusation by Warren of something Sanders may or may not have said in a private conversation is very petty. It futhermore contradicts Sanders' public statements, his record and common sense. Of course a woman can win the presidency. It doesn't take much intelligence to realize that.
13
Hey, Steve, what is Bernie’s record again? Not his voting record, but his record of treatment of female staff and Hillary Clinton?? Look again.
1
Warren is not just intellectual, but also gutsy. She affronted Sanders, and she would affront Putin, too, if she had reason to do so. Who thought Lloyd Bentsen was rude/unsportsmanlike/disgraceful when he told Dan Quayle, "Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy"? No Democrats, certainly, disapproved of this behavior . But they run for cover and kick up a cloud of uncomprehending disapproval when a woman initiates this kind of takedown. Warrren is ok with a level of assertiveness reserved in our culture for men. Democrats would be much less irrelevant to half the electorate if they stopped being sexually reactionary.
9
@Pella There is a fatal flaw to your analogy: Bentsen was telling the truth.
4
Just a thought, but I can't possibly see Bloomberg being as petty, disingenuous, and calculating as Warren just showed herself to be. I think he is still a long longshot, but I'd bet that the longer this hysterical (and yes I'm aware of the word's ugly implications and stand by it) mayhem goes on the better that he (and Steyer) does in the polls.
3
@steven If a man had handled the situation just as Elizabeth Warren did, you’d be calling him bold, forthright and strategic.
7
@DeAnnG You don't know me at all. Please don't presume to know my mind, and I will reciprocate. However, IMO, regardless of what you really think, your comment exemplifies the perceived and promoted (by the right) knee-jerk or gut class/gender based public divisiveness and sniping from the left that could doom a Democratic candidate (though I hope I'm wrong.) And, less importantly, you are wrong about me personally: I certainly would not say that, any more than Sanders would ever publicly say a woman shouldn't win the presidency.
Isn't being a liar a prerequisite for being a politician?
6
Warren is such an amateur and it will cost her the nomination
15
Seriously, people. Get a grip. I cannot believe the drama I am reading here. Are there truly no adults in the room?
12
I simply do not believe Bernie Sander’s version of the private conversation between him and Elizabeth Warren in 2018. Men of his generation may wish to appear woke, but they rarely are. He spoke from his gut ; doing so he might have succeeded in sowing doubt and a loss of confidence in a woman less formidable than Elizabeth Warren. It’s a disease inflicted on many men towards women , especially women of substance. When Bernie comes clean of allowing the bad treatment of women during his 2015 campaign and the existence of the Bernie Bros... Well, then I might change my mind, but just look how he dismissively turned his back on Elizabeth Warren after the debate. HE was dismissive and rude. These are not behaviors I want to see in our next President. Bernie, like Joe Biden, has too much baggage re his treatment of women. I’ll never forgive Joe Biden and his “involvement” in the Anita Hill hearings. A leopard does not change its spots! And, I’m also sick and tired of peacocks.
418
@Ursula Weeks
Sorry you feel that way.
I like Warren too; she's my second choice.
Pretty sure this won't change your mind, maybe other readers will find this interesting.
'63 Bernie getting arrested, chained to Black women at the protest of Willis Wagons.
'72 Sanders was fighting for women's Reproductive Rights before Roe v. Wade.
'89: As mayor, Bernie fought for an ordinance that “reserves 10% of all city funded jobs for women.”
'91 Bern tries to add an amend to Civil Rights Act of '91 that would ensure that race and sex discrimination would be treated identically under federal law. Sanders told reporters, “That women today are not equal under the law is unacceptable.” The amend. was rejected.
'92 Bern proposes and passes Senate legislation calling for a national cancer registry. Sanders said, “Breast cancer in America today is a tragedy of epidemic proportions.”
'96 Gloria Steinem said Bernie is "symbol of women's Rights".
'98 election, NOW(National Organization for Women) endorsed Bernie and no other VT. politician "He's a congressman we don't even have to call, We know he's going to vote the right way."
The list continues all the way up to this campaign.
I'm sure you know that 71% of his staff are women.?!
https://www.thenation.com/article/bernie-feminist-president/
I like this one; '87 Bernie tells 3rd grade class/girl that women should be president and it's not happening fast enough.
https://twitter.com/pjayevans/status/1216826375744737280
307
@Ursula Weeks What are you talking about? Warren has an extensive, documented history of lying about her career as a professor, her career and clients as a lawyer, and most recently about her cultural heritage. In every instance, her lies benefited her political career, giving her a more favorable reputation.
If these remarks are true, why did Warren wait a whole year after the conversation, conveniently just weeks before the Iowa caucus and after her polling nationally and in early states has plummeted, to finally talk about it?
At this point Warren apologists are making it clear they don't care about the truth and simply want to validate their contempt for Bernie.
187
@Ursula Weeks your view on Bernie is so clouded by him being a man that you are COMPLETELY missing his entire record. Bernie has fought for women's rights consistently, and has done more for women than Warren has by a league and a half. Gloria Steinem called him "an honorary woman". Both the NARAL and Planned Parenthood give him a 100% rating for his voting record. Speak however much you want about "the disease" that you think infects men. Yes, masculinity is a problem. Yes, men as a whole need to do much better at fostering an equitable society. But to completely dismiss someone's words because they're a man you think is "diseased" is irresponsible. As much as I hate to use this word, this borders on misandry, as much as you'd like to call it feminism. Any clear-minded feminist would understand that Bernie has consistently fought for women. Anyone who understands his voting record, the content of his speeches, and his history as an individual would completely decry what you claim here, just as I do. Warren, on the other hand, has many documented cases of being untruthful.
157
Elizabeth Warren engineered the whole thing. Mr Sanders probably made a general statement pertaining to events pervading at the time - 2018. I think Warren would have asked him to explain a more general comment such as "A woman will never be President" at the time and was probably assuaged by his response, or else buried it in the way a Jay or a Squirrel buries peanuts. That 'rainy day' was yesterday's debate. It played right into her hands, allowing her to receive by far the biggest reaction when she said every man on the stage had lost their last 10 elections, whilst the two women had never lost an election. It was political expediency. No more no less.
3
I thought Warren's behavior after the debate was unprofessional and inappropriate. It showed poor judgment to confront Sanders like that in front of a T.V. audience. We've had enough Jerry Springer moments in our national political life over the past three years to last several decades. Sen. Warren would do well to mature-it-up in the future.
19
Bernie 2020. He's the only right choice.
19
Yes, because being screamed at for four years by an 80 year old socialist is exactly what we all need to recover from the Trump years.
1
The DNC can't directly take Bernie out, like last time. They need help from the MSM. It's clear to everyone,why not be honest about it?
14
@Brian
Right. But what I don't understand is how the MSM made Warren tell that lie, and then make her act like a petulant child at the debate by refusing to shake Sanders' hand?
100 million men just heard their wives, girlfriends, mothers, sisters get irrationally defensive and nasty and swore to never, ever vote Warren. It's obvious this was a total set up by Warren to goad Sanders into becoming defensive. I expect nothing less from an opportunist who lied about being Native American for personal gain. Now we see her true colors. I'm not a fan of socialists, but anyone who votes Warren over Sanders is willingly choosing to be duped. What a disgrace!
18
Your trolling doesn’t paint Bernie in a positive light.
4
It appears that Warren tried to kneecap Bernie and hit herself in the foot.
I did the rough math. About 7000 commenters registered their displeasure with Warren, while 300 defended her.
Commenters questioned the claim's credibility, its delayed disclosure and her stagey refusal to shake hands.
(It reminded me of when Nixon shook his finger at Kennedy when the sound was off -- but wasn't saying anything.)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Warren a former Cherokee Republican Corporate Attorney? That does not give me confidence.
Please read their interviews with the NYT's editorial board.
While I trust Bernie; I'm voting for the democratic nominee.
11
I would have never believed anything could have made me lose respect for Warren. For her to try to convince people that the guy who tried to convince her to run in 2016 thinks that a woman can't get elected is just unbelievable.
I would have followed her into battle like she was Joan Of Arc at one point. Now, I wonder if she'd be any different than Biden.
23
I propose a dream Democratic ticket: Fancy Bear and Cozy Bear. The way the rest of us are perfectly willing to let ourselves be their puppets, we may as well give them the nomination right now.
These comments attacking both of them are worse than the original, I'm assuming, misremembering. But that's the point, right? I can't believe a supporter of one would have anything but respect for the other.
1
So the allegation is that Sanders is a sexist.
Given this, why doesn't someone ask Senator Warren to elaborate on what she alleges to-- given she has known and worked with Sanders for years -- she is in a unique position to shed more light on a serious allegation
8
She or her campaign ratted first, folks. At her level, nobody with a shred of common sense will ever trust her again. That's the way the game is played where everything is for keeps.
9
I seem to recall a NY Times article regarding sexism complaints from members of Sanders 2016 campaign. Maybe Senator Warren is the one that remembers correctly what was really said.
4
Was this in dispute? While not a fan I just don’t see Sanders saying something that incredibly ignorant.
3
When Bernie told Warren a woman couldn't win, was she an Anglo or a Native American at the time?
7
I am very disappointed on so many levels with this article. It is rife with condescending descriptions of progressives. Above all it is a subjective article that fails to call into attention the role of the media in this matter. To be clear, I am a huge advocate for and will always fight for the rights of the media. However, I am disappointed how much the NYT has become so shallow in its reporting that it does not call out media like CNN, who started these shenanigans and continues to roll unabated with them. Why is it that the Times does not report on the obvious fact that CNN, with its odd questioning, and its use of live microphones, is slanted towards maintaining this controversy? To report everything is serious journalism. This unfortunately is not all the news thats fit to print. It's more like the news I can read along with Elvis sightings while I'm waiting on line at my local supermarket. Once again, I'm asking the NYT to do better!
13
Mr. Parnas just put this minor dust up ‘below the fold’.
1
For both Bernie and Elizabeth, apparently this is their way of withdrawing from the race for president - but not with the greatest finesse or grace. We can only hope that Bernie does not continue to campaign against the frontrunner long after it is clear
Bernie will not be elected the Democratic candidate in 2020, as he did destructively in 2016.
4
Me thinks the lady doth protest too much
12
She can't take on Sanders for calling her and her staffers liars? Give me a break. Sanders is a misogynist and he's the one who's a liar. Please media, start vetting this con man.
4
Anyone who thinks Elizabeth Warren can beat Trump is dillusional. He already has painted her as Pocohantas and a liar. She voted for increased military spending and was Republican for many years. Her record is contradictory and she will be ripped to shreds. Even my family who is moderate and voted for Trump said they'd vote for Bernie over Warren any day. She has way too much baggage. I cannot believe she preaches unity but is the driving force behind this drama. I will vote for any candidate but her. Better to have a moderate than someone who will backstab anyone who gets in her way. I mean, so close to the vote and she just decides now to bring this up 13 months later - just when Bernie has recently been at the top of the polls? Please. She is only interested in herself and not the country. I'm from a conservative state and when I go home and hear things I'm telling you right now - she won't win. She is seen as elitist and a liar. The unions who voted for Trump back home are excited for Bernie - not Warren.
19
This is rather ugly news. But I hope each and every supporter of each and every Democratic primary candidate does the right thing in November. PLEASE don't pull a 2016!
4
Warren just lost my respect completely. I am not a fan of Bernie but the way Warren handled the alleged comment and situation made me distrust her. In addition, her comment about how “the men on stage have lost collectively 10 elections and the women have not” made her sound really cheap and petty - not the qualities I am looking for in my President, male or female. Also, I’m a female and she fails to inspire or empower me.
29
ANY of the Democrat candidates are better than Trump. I would even hold my nose and vote for Biden.
All Dems should be running their campaigns NOW to contrast their character, judgement, knowledge of the world and integrity with the DT monster.
And they shouldn't expect the "mainstream media" to be fair, since they love to pretend they're being objective by stirring the pot and reporting on Dem stupidities that pale in comparison to DT's torrent of corrupt acts and absurd lies.
Eyes on the prize, people.
9
Another reason why the primary system should be scrapped and the Democrats and Republicans should go back to the way they nominated candidates in the past (and the way smaller parties such as the Libertarian Party and political parties in Europe do it): at nominating conventions, where political bickering and backbiting are done behind closed doors where they belong. Why political parties want to air their dirty laundry in public is beyond me.
6
Whatever else Warren is, she is absolutely not the "unity" candidate she claims to be. I dislike the "purity" test of her brand of liberal/leftism (and at least Sanders has shown he can bend to reality, see his stance on guns and hunting in Vermont). I am extremely wary of the NYT pundits who previously screamed for Senator Franken's head over some things he did as a comedian (!) : who today in the liberal sphere wouldn't want his witty and reasoned voice in the Senate? Remember the saying that "the perfect is the enemy of the good". And please consider this: however you define her agenda, it probably doesn't include benefiting YOU, except as an afterthought. I predict a Dukakis level fail if she is nominated.
13
Mark my words, Joe Biden will blow it if he gets the nomination. He too often is grasping for words, and grasping for a political chord that he thinks will get everyone in harmony. He won't find it. And a far left Sanders or Warren candidacy is not a winning ticket, especially now with record unemployment. Amy Klobuchar, it seems to me, is the best chance we have to unite and win. It's that simple.
9
You mean record employment :-) I think that was a Freudian slip. Democrats would love it if there were record unemployment.
@JerseyGirl It can be worded either way. To make the sentence more specific, I could have included the phrase record unemployment of x.x%
1
@JerseyGirl
There IS record unemployment. Records can be low as well as high.
Sorry, Elizabeth. First of all, I believe that Bernie either didn't say it or didn't mean it the way you have interpreted it. Secondly, even if you absolutely believe that he said it and meant it, what advantage do you hope to gain by bringing this up? Do you really think branding Sanders as some sort of sexist is going to help you get the nomination?
Six months ago I gave my first-ever political contribution to your campaign, Ms. Warren. I did it because a. I believed you could beat Trump and b. I felt that you were speaking truth to power. You had the momentum and for a couple of months there was riding high in the polls. Then you started slipping. And there's no one to blame for that except you. You lost the lead because you stopped sounding like a courageous advocate for the disenfranchised and started sounding like a mealy-mouthed advocate for yourself. You started to be just another politician. Maybe you thought that would help broaden your appeal and defuse some of the criticism you were getting. But all it did was disillusion those who believed in you.
Because of this, Biden seems all but inevitable as the nominee at this point, and in any case I will vote for whoever the Democratic candidate is this November. Therefore I will cast my primary vote for Bernie Sanders as a way of sending a message to the DNC that many of us share his priorities, and I will prepare myself to campaign for Biden in the fall.
You would have been a great first woman president. Oh well.
13
They’re all old and grumpy. No charisma among any of the Dems except maybe Buttigieg. Need to get these septuagenarians, including Trump, off the ballot and bring in some new blood.
9
Elizabeth Warren seems to have a “difficult relationship” with the truth. I find it highly unlikely that Bernie ever said that a woman couldn’t get elected.
15
Apparently Warren and Sanders held a private meeting some time ago and Warren decided to release to the public that Sanders did not think a woman could be elected at this time.
Sanders felt forced to deny it. After Warren released that information that occurred during a private meeting in order apparently to embarrass Sanders and gain an political advantage over him, they both are now calling each other liars. What did she
expect would be he result of releasing the information of a statement made in private? Very poor judgement all around.
5
There was nothing simple about Warren's confrontation with Bernie Sanders. It was a calculated attempt to erode his support among women. No matter the truth about whether Bernie said that a woman couldn't be elected, the meeting was a private affair between two old friends. Only one person could have leaked Bernie's comments, and that was simply a betrayal of trust.
13
It boggles the mind that people are so fiercely denying Bernie could have said this, when every time I bring up Warren I hear the accusation that a woman can't win. This happens literally every day, from allies and friends, not Trump supporters. It's the most common talking point! Of course he said it.
18
Whether or not this unfolded as claimed, one this is certain: this event has split and embittered progressives with the potential to harm both candidates in the near future and beyond. Just look at the divisiveness in the comments offered by other readers.
1
This is troubling. I like Senators Warren and Sanders. After the debate, Elizabeth Warren apparently accused of Bernie Sanders of calling her a liar. Presumably she was referring to something that happened during the debate.
But it's not clear to me from the story or from what I heard durig the debate, that Sanders said those words or something similar. What I recall from the debate is Sanders denying that he said a woman could not be elected president. That is not exactly calling her a liar. He was defending himself from an accusation, which he may or may not have made.
3
Well of course, she is a liar. In fact, a proven liar. Her own DNA that she herself released to the public conclusively proves that she is not the Native American she consistently claimed to be when she thought falsely posing as a member of a minority group would advance in her career.
Her phony beef with Bernie Sanders is simply psychological projection. She knows she is a liar, so she's trying to put that accusation on Bernie, who wrongheaded as he may be when it comes to policies from A to Z, is at least a honest, straightforward, and sincere human being. Liz Warren by contrast, is as phony as the day is long, and as insincere as any public figure in our country. (Rivaled in her Pecksniffian insincerity perhaps, only by Chuck Schumer.)
14
Elizabeth Warren just lost my vote. She wouldn't shake Bernie's hand?! Give me a break. Grow up. This is the big league. People say mean things. If you can't be friends with a decent man like Bernie Sanders, you are going to crumble going up against Trump.
13
My concern is that the internecine dispute between the Bernie-crats and the Lizzie-crats is music to Putin's and Trump's ears. Worse, the purists for whom perfection MUST be the enemy of the doable good might carry their petulant disaffection all the way through Election Day; just like the Nader, Stein and non-voters who refused to vote for Gore or HRC, respectively, they are just what Trump and Putin want to see. These "I'll show them!!" purists, if they again stay home or otherwise waste their votes, will have the blood spilled in Term #2 on their hands just as much as DJT.
4
Warren. The Republican who decided she is now a Democrat. Kind of like Hillary Clinton, who supported Barry Goldwater before deciding she was a “Democrat”. Biden? No. Anita Hill and the Iraq war vote. Bernie is the real deal. He has been true for all 1276 years of his life.
5
Look at Warren’s record, she is far from the current Republican party. Like her or not she has been quite consistent in her career (as has Sanders). Fighting for common people in a way Trump promised but has delivered the opposite (tax cuts for the wealthy, scapegoating immigrants, people of color, Jews and others to distract everyone else from what’s really happening)
2
@Larry
Fighting for common people? Give me a break. She is a fraud. Getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for teaching one course at Harvard. She is the swamp.
1
Steyer comes off looking like a pretty classy guy.
11
Mountain out of mole hill.
2
Don't think about it. He did call you a liar. Now what?
1
What would be Elizabeth Warren's motive for making public now a supposed comment about the electability of a female candidate for president made by Bernie Sanders in 2018? Her only motive would be to attack him and weaken his support among women voters. Did she suddenly remember after almost two years he made a comment about women candidates for president and think, "Hey, I'm a woman. He must think I can't beat Trump!" Unlikely. Warren has been slipping in the polls and her momentum has stalled. What better way to consolidate her progressive support than to undermine Sanders' standing among the same group of progressives? This was a calculated political knifing, and then she has the chutzpah to complain that he called her a liar!
16
Warren always reveals herself as a victim and that will cost her.
17
@Jules OA
Exactly. I was going to write the same thing. Always the victim. It's pathological. It not even enough for her to gripe about real obstacles and adversity she has faced. She has to make more up and embellish what thread of truth exists.
5
Lets put both of them in time out. These two folks want us to believe they will be able to stand toe to toe with the likes of Putin? I am waiting for one of them to cover their ears and start screaming I am not lying. We already have juvenile running the country do we really need to change seats on the Titanic? When He say She say becomes news Trump wins. You would have expected more than this from these two. Warren knew this for almost two years why drop it now? When your down in the polls it looks too clever by a half to drop this now.
4
@Steven McCain
Unfortunately I agree. They are my two favorite candidates by far and both of them are acting like idiots. I suspect they are both telling the truth about the conversation as she understood it on her part and as he intended on his, but it became a childish dispute and they both look as foolish as, well, Joe Biden on a bad day.
4
I suppose this is what some where hoping for when they clamored for "pizzazz."
1
Way to stand up for yourself & catch a bully off-guard, Senator Warren.
And calculating since she knew what she was doing!
2
@Kyle - Who is the bully?
Biden loves it. Warren is willing to sabotage both campaigns. Delay in coming forward makes the accusation suspect. Sanders has a temper which can get the better of him. Remember when Joe Scarborough got Hillary to agree that Bernie was unelectable? Sanders lashed out and damaged himself and Hillary. I pray that cooler heads prevail. It’s imperative that a progressive candidate go forward.
5
The question should be can be a woman be elected without the help of the Russians and the baffling behavior of the head of the FBI. And let's not forget a Republican voter suppression effort that flipped Wisconsin. I think it has been well established that under normal circumstances a woman can win, Of course, we no longer have normal circumstances, It is now not clear whether a man opposing the Republican demagogue can win. The Russians are back at it and likely like will be more effective than ever in misleading voters in key swing states and causing divisions to widen. The question may really be can any candidate who supports democracy ever again win an election in the US. Normalcy is gone.
5
This exchange dooms them both.
10
And this is why the Democrats will lose in 2020. Because of this ridiculous non-story. And my having changed my registration from Republican to Democrat will be for nothing. Would you people please keep your eye on the prize?
17
New Game Show for the short attention spans... Liberal Family Feud. Please get over yourselves, and don't feed the salacious media. Normal people are hoping for a living wage and a liveable future.
13
Warren’s assertion strains credibility if for no reason other than she chose to surface it now after years of palling around with Bernie. Reminds me of he other misrepresentation, you know, she was Native American. My gut reaction is she made the Bernie comment up too.
13
Depressing how many male-named commenters are bashing Warren - and the NYT is stirring the pot. Please suspend your disbelief for a few weeks.
10
I believe Elizabeth Warren. Even the reported comments this evening show Bernie's dismissiveness toward her. That she would approach him privately to discuss this demonstrates more sincerity on her part and more respect to him than he deserves.
To all the other comments asking why she waited until now to bring it up? Bernie broke the non-aggression pact first by calling her out by name in his campaign script. 'Politics ain't beanbag', skilled politicians keep comments, relationships, and stories to deploy when they will be most useful – now was the time for this one.
I for one appreciate her 'sharp elbows' and any man who had done the same would be praised for his prowess and fighting spirit - she is the candidate democrats need at the time we need it.
22
@James GH
There was nothing “private” about that exchange. It was calculated.
1
@Jonas Jones All the better - gives me more faith and confidence that she can handle Trump.
5
My favorite part of this story is Tom Steyer interrupting to say hi to Bernie. He's the only one who looks good in this episode.
18
Dang it. I was so close to caucusing for Warren. Back to the drawing board. Some of us "undecideds" are so because of a lack of good candidates. I really wish Booker could've stayed in.
3
You seem to be letting the search for perfect be the enemy of the good....
10
The below quote is strictly wishful thinking on the part of the author as opposed to reality:
"much of the Democratic electorate still harbors feelings of resentment toward Mr. Sanders for his conduct toward Hillary Clinton during the 2016 presidential primaries"
11
Warren should produce the video or audio recording she has. Either Sanders said a woman cannot be elected or he didn’t. The recording will prove it. Or maybe it is a fantasy like her Cherokee Indian ancestry.
6
Why on earth would you imagine she goes around taping private dinners? And why do women have to produce a witness or tape to be believed?
6
@Laurel McGuire
It's not "women", it's just this particular woman. A tape would be helpful to raise her credibility because she has lied or misrepresented facts numerous times about incidents in her past - for no reason other than to pretend she's some victim.
When confronted with "receipts", i.e. factual time line of when her teacher contract was renewed and the board meeting minutes, she was proven a liar.
5
There are no “voters in the middle” who will vote for either of these socialist Robin Hoods. That’s the real issue, not which one happens to be a woman.
6
I don't care if Sanders said it. I don't care if Warren is lying about it. Trump has told over 15,000 documented lies. He is corrupt to the core and is destroying our country. THAT is what matters. Our media must focus on Trump's foul deeds not this silliness. Do better, NYT.
18
I’m very disappointed that this is “news”. I like Warren. And Sanders. But I think attributing this statement to Bernie without context is a pretty low move. I also think that the sentiment may not be untrue. Some portion of people who voted for Trump in 2016 may not vote for a woman president, and if Priority #1 is to vote Trump out of office, then considering such a factor is not unwise.
11
Agreed: non story. Meanwhile Trump and Pompeo are spewing lies about Iran....
8
I haven’t formed a strong opinion yet regarding Elizabeth Warren but - for me at least - that exchange sure doesn’t help her cause. Immediately after an important debate the very first and most important thing on her mind is to quickly push her way over to Bernie Sanders and make this statement? Why is it so important to her? If she knows he’s lying then he’s lying - who cares? She shouldn’t need him to validate or sooth her feelings, and in approaching him to do so makes her look weak and needy. Go shake another opponents hand and turn your back to Bernie. And, for goodness sake...even I would know the mic is still live in the control room, and I’ve never even been on TV!
12
@David W
At this point, I think she’s nuts!
5
Read the Yang interview. Like drink of cool water.
7
The mass media (NYT included) is going to run with this story, until they have wrung every drop out this relatively trivial (and disputed) event.
As with 2016 when the media spent so much time focusing on Clinton and ignoring most of what Trump was up to, Trump will be the beneficiary of this!
9
if you don’t like being called a liar, stop lying Liz. A private, uncomfirmable, conversation from a year ago mysteriously leaks when Bernie pulls ahead in the polls? Could this possibly be any more obviously a desperate, and frankly sad, move? (ok, at least she didn’t try to start a war with Iran as a distraction)
22
I never liked either one of these candidates; I voted for Hillary over Bernie. But I think Warren looks bad on this. Why did she bring up this alleged thing that Sanders said back in 2018, right before the last Iowa debate? It's mighty fishy, as is her conversion from a relative moderate to a near socialist. Bernie is way too far left for me but he has been consistent throughout his political career and the democratic party has moved his way--thus Warren's push to the left. The whole Warren DNA announcement was also a coldly calculated move.
14
Her conversion has actually been from a hard core conservative, registered Republican law and economics scholar to the hard left, for no apparent reason other than that it benefited her in Mass and national politics. That’s what Bernie should talk about and what’s lingering under the surface.
2
Of course the dna episode was a calculated move- to defang any attacks by Trump who had threatened to throw dna tests at her if she made it to general.
2
Why couldn’t she have just replied “it doesn’t matter if he said it or not, I’m here to prove it wrong”. I would have more respect for her.
16
There's a saying in Alcoholics Anonymous --
"While I'm over here trying to stay sober a day at a time - my disease is over in the corner doing push-ups" (i.e. - getting stronger) --
I was reminded of that wisdom when I thought to myself --
"While the Liberal Democrats are over here, fighting over silly and divisive nonsense - Donald Trump and his unified allies are over in the corner doing pushups - and getting stronger" --
The more the press and media push these issues of race and gender to the forefront as being critical elements in the so-called "elctability" of a Democrat who can beat Donald Trump -- the weaker and less electable they actually become --
What is that saying -- ?
"Divide and Conquer" -
Trump doesn't need to work on dividing the democrats - they're doing it for him all by themselves - with assistance from the "Liberal Media"
Another four years of Trump is one of my worst nightmares -- but judging by what's going on lately with Liberal Progressives - I'm afriad I may be in for a bad night's sleep...
4
It's obvious their disagreement--from two years ago mind you--was about electability. Which is really a euphemism for "swing voters in the Rust Belt”…which is itself a euphemism for "older white noncollege voters [who do not necessarily share our egalitarian view of the sexes].” Pointing out that potential sexism within this demo could pose an obstacle to electability in *this* election isn't sexist. Warren is no dummy. She knew full well what Bernie was getting at here. But she conveniently elected not to interpret for the non-politicos out there (most everyone) in order to score an easy bucket and humiliate a so-called friend. Now that was elitist—that someone who wants to be president would deliberately fail to interpret and clarify the meaning of discussion in its context, in the hopes that her audience would be too stupid to understand it, in order to score some points and humiliate a rival… wait now who does that begin to sound like? Sorry, but this was a terrible stunt by Warren. But I'll get over it and vote for any Dem...I just hope it's Bernie. ))
10
I think they are both telling the truth about the conversation. Warren interpreted it differently from the way Sanders meant it. This isn’t exactly unknown in politics or discussions about any sort of topic where people have strong convictions..
The rest of this is ugly stupid childish political nonsense. I had hoped both of them would use the debate to put the misunderstanding behind them. Bernie could have defused it by saying he would be supporting Warren as his first choice if he weren’t running. She could have defused it by saying she didn’t think Bernie was saying anything sexist, but she took his argument to mean that misogyny amongst voters would make it very difficult for her to win and she disagreed. That would have been the mature way to meet halfway.
They both chose a different path. I like them both and prefer Bernie, but both of them disappointed me last night. I don’t understand why this was so difficult. Warren’s refusal to shake hands was the final straw.
We had a chance for a united progressive movement. Congratulations to both for flushing that down the toilet.
3
@Donald Exactly right. But in my view, Warren ofc knew what he meant. She deliberately failed to interpret his statement correctly in public, in the way you suggested, precisely bc she wanted to smear him with the insinuation of sexism, in order to erode his support with women. Point being, this was not just a "misunderstanding." This was a politically calculated deliberate misunderstanding. I wish too that Bernie had a better response, but in my view it was Warren's moral duty to admit she understood what he meant in the first place, rather than to pretend that she, a very smart woman, had taken his words at face value.
Bye Bye Miss American Lie. Warren is toast.
17
This may not be the critical issue for Warren and Sanders to be arguing over in public right now. At this point the problem between the two has become which one is a liar over a comment that may or may not have been previously made by Sanders on whether a female could be president ... whatever that means, eg, capability, electability. It doesn’t seem to go anywhere in a substantive way; but it is curious why Warren is pressing the issue so aggressively. Is it a convenient ploy for her to gain advantage over Sanders? One way or another, if either Warren or Sanders winds up the Dem nominee, Trump will have a hay day with the label “liar.” That can be counted on.
6
Meanwhile, it appears to be the case that the President of the United States took out a hit on a United States ambassador. Not sure why that's not a bigger story than this.
11
@Benjamin Hinkley . That’s as insane a conspiracy theory I’ve heard in the 3 yrs of Trump’s presidency.
5
Giuliani bragged about doing it. Read the news.
2
She lied about being a Native American and, additionally, offended most voters by getting the DNA test. That alone makes her unelectable.
Sad to see her career end this way.
14
What if Bernie was right. In essence, that a woman can’t beat Trump.
7
Warren is really doing herself damage here. If this conversation was so important, why did she wait until weeks before Iowa to bring it up? Smells fishy.
22
This is just getting silly now. This is not news, it's gossip and slime. Let these two people work out their differences in private. Please.
7
They need to cut it out right now! Democrats don’t need this!!!
3
I’ll never vote for Warren now.
17
Why would she hide this supposed heartache for over a year? And pretend to like and respect Sanders on all occasions since the 2018 meeting?
Political expedience.
Warren, you are the Russian bots’ dream.
12
The problem with Bernie in 2016 was that he fought a hard fight with Hillary and built a strong following. Then, he did a 180 when she received the nomination, which didn't sit well with most of his supportive base (who then did not vote). How could Bernie justify saying very negative things about her for months and then say he supports her? It didn't sit well and it won't if he gets into a similar situation with Warren. Dems should stop attacking each other and push their agendas for what they want to do. It's fine to have different paths, but they all need to be united to keep credibility when one of them comes out ahead. The focus should be get the nightmare that is Trump out.
9
To all the folks who are saying that Bernie lost last time because the Bernie Bros or whatever, I think Bernie lost last time because he ran as a Dem against the HRC machine that wasn’t going to give an inch. Had he stayed true to himself, stayed Independent, he would have been until the end, but instead he chose to run as a Dem. I personally don’t think this party is where he belongs, but I’m happy to have him. Let’s face it: HRC was a flawed candidate that got pushed through on her obvious chops, but her steamer trunks full of baggage, and polarizing nature certainly didn’t help convince those that needed it.
As to Ms Warren, I fully respect her, she obviously has a firm grasp on many things that need change. I do worry that she is over stretching, with her seemingly hundreds of plans, and it does seem that this “news” about he said/she said, could have come out sooner than a year and a half later. It does smack of some lag in the polls, “we’ll drum up support by playing the sexism card”, which I just can’t believe of Bernie.
All I want is Medicare for all (or some decent single payor, we can do it!!) and education dollars for my children. Climate change issues. And some stability. Not opening my mews feed everyday to learn of some tweeted impending disaster or shame. Is it really so hard?!
6
She thinks he called her a liar on national TV? She accused him of saying a woman can't be elected president, and she did it right before the Democratic debate. Did she think it wasn't going to come up? And when it did come up, did she think he was going to admit to saying something he doesn't believe he said, just to be nice?
34
I've supported Warren, seeing as I liked her work with the consumer protection board and various other projects of hers I have seen over the years. I always said I would dance a jig though if Bernie got nominated. But-- maybe that isn't true anymore. The rabid response of the Bernie minions to Warren today reminds me of 2016-- and makes me wonder whether I want to support that nastiness, which reminds me more and more of trump and his people. If warren doesn't win the nomination, I wonder who is running third party...
7
Total set up by Warren to goad Sanders into becoming defensive. I expect nothing less from an opportunist who lied about being Native American for personal gain. Now we see her true colors. I'm not a fan of socialists, but anyone who votes Warren over Sanders is willingly choosing to be duped. What a disgrace!
20
I think Warren just lost. She has completely mishandled this. It has zero to do with whether a woman could make a good President or whether you would vote for one. Why did she pick up this tit-for-tat issue? Huge error. Maybe she will try to clear this up with a DNA test?
26
Circle the wagons. The firing squad has just begun.
5
Dear Liz, You are and you know it. BERNIE has been encouraging females to run for office for decades! It’s on video tape! Smears stink. You have ruined any chance you had with many of us. We don’t like liars!
19
Straighten up folks and keep your eye on the ball. Folks have different recollections all the time, both of what they said and of what they heard. Keep in mind the only liar that matters is the malevolent current occupant of the White House. He's the Prince of Liars. Stay focused.
7
I hope that Warren & Sanders can come together publicly within the next 48 hours and make peace. If not, Biden could win the nomination, and I don't believe Biden can beat Trump.
13
Irresponsible and lacking in self-control on Warren’s part. I can see why she was upset if she honestly believes Bernie said was she alleges but raising it immediately after the debate, on the stage, with cameras and microphones trained was neither the time nor the place.
The whole dispute between the two is petty and unproductive. It seems most likely there was a crossed wire but frankly it doesn’t matter.
13
So, let's say that Elizabeth is right, and Bernie told Elizabeth, during a conversation, that he did not think that a woman could beat Trump.
Guess what? He is entitled to his opinion, and there are lots of people, including Democrats, who do not believe that a woman can beat Trump.
11
Voters are entitled to know if that’s his opinion, when he so often relies on women to stump for him and organize for him.
4
"Occam's Razor," meaning the simplest explanation, is probably this, in my view: Sanders privately told Warren he didn't think a woman could be elected president. Then Warren betrayed that confidence. Then Bernie wouldn't (or felt he couldn't) fess up, and then...well, you get the picture.
13
@JM I'll grant you it is possible that he said something she could theoretically have understood as sexist, but then why leak the conversation >1yr after it happened, conveniently the day before a national debate? Also - if she really believes he did say something sexist - she then pretended they were best buds for a year, not bothered by his sexism at all, conveniently becoming bothered when her numbers declined? Either she's cool being friends with a sexist or more simply she lied about what he said or misconstrued his words when it became useful for her.
Don't get me wrong - this doesn't change the fact that i'll vote for her if she's the nominee due to her policies, but she certainly lost major points on genuineness and honesty with this scheme.
1
'People' should-stop-trying to gin up a fight between the Democratic candidates! There are some differences between the candidates but they are all united in their efforts to win the election in Nov. The kerfuffle between Warren and Sanders is meaningless-everyone was talking about whether or not a woman could win then and many voters still have doubts now. But the fact remains that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by over 3 million votes! BTW? If 'voters' loved Obama so much they voted for him twice but then voted for Trump because they wanted 'change'? Who's fooling who? Vote for the Democrat!
2
Sanders may be lying about what he said that is up for debate. Warren however is a lair for sure. I say that because Warren and Sanders had an off the record private meeting, both side agreed it was an off the record meeting. Now everybody is taking about what Sanders said to Warren, so Warren must have lied when she told Sanders the dinner was off the record. Warren once on paper registered as a minority. I like a lot of her polices and even gave Warren a little money but Sanders will get my vote, now.
Dump Trump 2020 Dump Trump 2020
13
Look at it rationally.
Does Warren's version of events add up? No.
1. She's talking about a meeting that happened two years ago at which only she and Sanders were present. The CNN piece citing "four" sources is unacceptable. There weren't four sources; there was one source: Elizabeth Warren.
Since that meeting, and until very recently, she and Sanders got along quite well.
2. Warren is a documented liar. Her heritage, her reason for leaving a job, even a recipe source, these are all things she's been caught lying about.
My guess?
I think Bernie told her that she's not his VP pick. I think she can do math: she is going to place a distant fourth in Iowa. And New Hampshire (right next to Massachusetts) is going to be the same. Two sad also-ran spots in the first two states will cripple her campaign.
Meanwhile, Warren's campaign is also failing rapidly. Her policies aren't as bold as Bernie's. She's a woman, but so is Klobuchar, so she doesn't have a lock on that half of the electorate.
I think her Clinton-era advisors (and remember how well they did for Hillary in 2016; have you ever seen a more spectacular fail? And against Donald Trump of all people) have no idea what they're doing. Warren's damaged goods. She's not marketable.
19
I figure that's it for Warren. Right or wrong, who said he said she said blah blah...it's bad campaigning and unappealing to voters.
15
You should include Bernie's full quote from the weekend. It's completely unacceptable that you don't do so.
8
The moderator asked Sanders why he said a woman could not be president and Sanders responded by saying he never said that. It’s possible that this whole thing was just a miscommunication and that Sanders actually said something else and Warren drew a conclusion which wasn’t what he meant. it doesn’t mean he thinks she’s a liar. The fact that Sanders saying he never made the statement is the equivalent of calling her a liar in Warren‘s mind makes me think that she also drew a conclusion from what he said during that private conversation and now she’s remembering her conclusion as his remark.
12
This is rich! A woman who claimed to be part Native American to perhaps further educational and career opportunities accusing someone else of lying? Rich indeed!
16
@Anthony James Trump has told over 15,000 documented lies. That is exponentially more significant. Nobody intelligent gives a darn about Warren's lie.
2
She used her surrogates to spread a rumor about a conversation that she claims to have had with Sanders.
Then after the televised debate, she publicly accuses Sanders of calling her a liar on TV . I guess it okay for Warren to say to the press that Sanders did say a woman could not be the president. Warren basically called Sanders a liar. Never Warren!
15
Of course Sanders said this. I'm not sure I disagree with him. Don is the master of using racism and misogyny against others.
He shouldn't have lied about it, though.
Either way, I will happily vote for any Dem against the fascist we have now.
4
Never Bernie. Ever.
6
There is nothing I would love more than to see a woman president. I was a Hillary supporter and the reaction to her candidacy by men here was a real revelation. I had thought we'd come further, women in America, but I was set straight, right quick.
The misogynyist mudslinging at Clinton and the new survey report on "best countries for women" in the world--#15 for the USA, in case you haven't seen it--shine a light on just how sexist America is. If anything, I feel its gotten worse in the past four years (no surprise).
What I'm getting at is that when I first heard about the Warren/Sanders dispute, my first thought was, "Well, if he did say it, he's right." I--sadly--don't think a woman can win the presidency in the America of today either. I don't think we're even going to get the ERA passed...ever! It's bleak.
In the end, it's ridiculous to color Sanders a misogynist. If he said to his friend (Warren) that he didn't think a woman could get elected president, I believe he was stating an unhappy opinion--not gloating or being sexist. I daresay he'd be one of the few men who'd be delighted to live in a country where women held equal power, where a woman could be elected to the highest office.
Warren's disappointed me with this. It smells bad.
17
Pathetic display by Warren. I am no longer considering her as my top option amongst the democrats. I personally find this to be a cheap publicity stunt. Bernie's public statements are sufficient tan dI put no credence in her hearsay, irrelevant rumors.
28
@JFP
Warren's whole campaign is a cheap publicity stunt. That is her MO throughout her career.
10