She is defending the presumption of innocence at all costs. Gloria Allred has a lot of nerve going after a fellow attorney for the most vigorous defense of her client as possible.
28
She is all about why people hate lawyers. It's not about finding the truth or defending an innocent man -- it's about undermining the victims and making them look like liars. Period. And ok, that's our adversarial system, but like so many lawyers who defend bad people with money, they end up believing in these clients and spouting their justifications and dissing the victims even after the case is over.
28
The rich and powerful may abuse their wealth and power ..or be taken advantage of.
Some powerful men are abusers and some are not. Question: how many in each category?
Reading the american press these days, one would think it is 90% rapists and 10% non (not yet) rapists.
While I have no idea about the actual figure, I admire Donna Rotunno for her courage and common sense.
103
In America, in practice, you usually assumed guilty if you are charged and unless you are able to prove your innocence, the mere act of the arrest and accusation leads to a guilty verdict. That’s how it is for blacks, immigrants and people I know. A friend saved a kid as a Good Samaritan and was sent to jail because he HAD touched the kid, which was evidence and he would have to prove he didn’t have bad intent (impossible to prove).
6
She’s just defending her right to make huge fees. She would gladly argue the opposite position if she had a wealthy enough client.
That’s what lawyers do, why bring ethics or morality into it?
19
She confuses a movement designed to empower women to stand up to predators before they are attacked with some sort of attack on a defendant's constitutional rights. The latter is not occurring and she knows better. If, on the other hand, she feels the movement is a threat to her career, she might be right. And that's the whole idea. Women don't want to prosecute sexual predators or destroy the reputations of men. They just want them to stop abusing their positions of power.
24
John Adams successfully represented the British soldiers involved in the Boston Massacre as their defense lawyer. No one assumed that Adams supported the British. Adams was defending the rule of law.
The ethical obligation of a lawyer is to vigorously defend their client within reasonable interpretations of the law while avoiding even the appearance of impropriety.
Some lawyers take on clients to advocate for a particular cause using a specific client.
The presumption of innoence unless proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt is an essential principle of criminal law. Along with the right to remain silent without any adverse inference being drawn.
This lady lawyer sounds like an advocate as much as she is a defense lawyer.
22
I'm sorry, but all of a sudden he needs a walker? Puh-leeze!
25
Weinstein's lawyer didn't care that her client stripped women of their legal rights.
18
The "Me Too" movement is perpetrated by a few thousand radicals on the internet. No one I know, even in NYC, would want anything to do with their agenda.
Believe it or not, most women have fathers, husbands and sons. They have male friends. They have male co-workers. Most women do not intend to blame every man for every offense.
Good for Ms. Rotunno for speaking truth to the twitter nuts!
31
Hate to be the first one to tell you this, Mr. Rotunno, but the truth is often dangerous.
12
This attorney is a credit to her profession. Harvey Weinstein is a pathetic excuse for a human being BUT in our legal system he is entitled to a zealous advocate to protect his rights and Ms. Rotunno certainly qualifies. Any person with a modicum of objectivity and common sense recognizes that many proponents of the "MeToo" movement would fit right in with Joe McCarthy. Just because communism was a threat to our democracy in the 1950's did not justify the wholesale trampling of due process for those who were accused of supporting communism. Unfortunately some of today's MeToo warriors would eliminate basic due process rights for half of the population if they had their way. That is not the way to combat sexism or anything else in a true democracy. Let Weinstein get convicted and spend the rest of his life in prison, fine, but give him his due process rights. Ms. Rotunno may not have a righteous client but she is fighting a righteous fight.
49
Who is funding all these anti Me Too people? More Russian trolls?
Hatred of Women is alive and well in the comments section today.
Folks, #MeToo is simply women telling their stories. Why do you hate us so much?
32
Re: "...Harvey Weinstein, second from right, leaving court in Manhattan last week with his lead lawyer, Donna Rotunno, who has steadily built a career defending men accused of sex crimes..."
As a retired 1St. Responder, and, a juror on 2, (muggings), cases...I'm not impressed by H. Weinstein's 'on, again / off, again' walker-use...
As a retired 1St. Responder, and 'protected_pedophile' survivor, where the perp IS 'home, free' as far as the judicial system is concerned, due to the statuette, 'O, limitations, ('sexual assault reporting' sub_division), aka, Cardinal Dolan's favorite law(s)...
I'm NOT impressed by H. Weinstein's retention of a female lawyer, either!...
12
The two episodes of The Daily about the Wienstein trail were fascinating and sad. Victim shaming and blaming is the reality in sexual abuse and rape trials. Ms. Rotunno seems to indicate she will be doing a fair amount of both at this trial. And yes, the walker is a bit much.
14
Weinstein is not being denied the right to a fair trial. Bill Cosby’s legal rights were not taken away.
On the other hand, people get fired all the time for all sorts of reasons. That’s life
9
Her POV is that we should not convict bank robbers because some banking regulations need to be updated. Dumb. Desperate.
8
We live in a time when it is forbidden to even have a conversation about the lawyer involved in this case. That is where we are now and that scares me. I admire anyone who can face down an angry mob like that. It is a rare gift. We can't lose what we've worked so hard to build. Much of this is mass hysteria as we were all taken off guard when the walls came down. It is in these instances that we must have our wits about us and follow the law. It isn't going to be easy but it must be done.
16
As a court reporter in the Army I started a rape case which started out was a capital case. The case was a joke and as are most US rape cases,white woman/black man. The first foundation should be no DNA, no rape charge. Courts still permit a man, usually black, to be convicted on the basis of eyewitness testimony. Before a man is convicted there should be at least a scintilla of evidence he actually raped the accuser.
20
“Most rape cases are between a White women/Black man”?!?! I would like to see the statistics on that! It seems as if even though in the face of a flurry of high profile white men accused of rape and sexual molestation the persistent narrative in America is still Black men as sexual predators!
10
AGREED- Me too has gone off the rails!! What an overreach it has become. When is Charlie Rose coming back?
15
OK, to all those who say #believeallwomen, I have two words to say. Tawana Brawley. What we should strive to #believe is the truth. And if that truth proves a man has assaulted anyone, he should be sentenced to the maximum allowable punishment. If he is innocent, remember that it isn’t just his life that is destroyed, but also all of his family and friends. Pretty easy concept really. Find the truth.
32
No one says believe all women. But only misogynists would say - or imply - believers you should believe none.
No one is asking that Weinstein be convicted without a trial. No one is asking that Weinstein is losing his rights.
Methinks a lot of men doth protest way too much.
17
To follow up on my earlier comment, I suggest people read this article “When Rape is Reported and Nothing Happens”.
http://startribune.com/denied-justice-series-when-rape-is-reported-and-nothing-happens-minnesota-police-sexual-assault-investigations/487400761/
15
Demarco Whitley was a "follower!!!" What does that mean? He "followed" the rapist cousin, the cousin was the first to rape her and Whitley was the second man to rape her. Rape is rape, no matter the order.
No wonder she lost the case. Despicable.
14
What are the chances Mr. Weinstein eventually sexually harasses his own attorney?
8
Not likely, his attorney is not trying to sleep her way into a movie role.
19
The best thing about this article is that it shows a woman being a shameless ambulance chaser. It's not only the men lawyers #MeToo
7
Don't hate on Donna Rotunno, she's got bills to pay. If the court of public opinion tries to shame her, she should play up the fact her grandmother was a democrat, just like Rudy Giuliani's mother.
3
Due process.
9
The pathetic photos of a rumpled, stooped, dazed looking HW clutching his walker, the essence of disempowerd weakness make me want to laugh. He is such a relentlessly transparent trickster. This time...no deal HW...you are toast. Save your Hollywood prop and costume cliches images for all the thinking time you will soon have, behind bars. You can work on your next production there.. for the rest of your life.
18
A bit of old news, Jan 9 2018, article from the NTY
Catherine Deneuve joined more than 100 other Frenchwomen in entertainment, publishing and academic fields ....
One of the arguments the writers make is that instead of empowering women, the #MeToo and #BalanceTonPorc movements instead serve the interests of “the enemies of sexual freedom, of religious extremists, of the worst reactionaries,” and of those who believe that women are “‘separate’ beings, children with the appearance of adults, demanding to be protected.” They write that “a woman can, in the same day, lead a professional team and enjoy being the sexual object of a man, without being a ‘promiscuous woman,’ nor a vile accomplice of patriarchy.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/09/movies/catherine-deneuve-and-others-denounce-the-metoo-movement.html
10
Male here...70 y.o. I tend to be sympathetic towards claims of abuse by women. Why? Because of the undeniable imbalance of power between men and women. I never expected to become personally embroiled in any kind of metoo scenario because I do not, and never have engaged in any behavior that could even remotely be called abusive. And yet...
I work out at the gym almost every day. I keep my head down, and focus intently on my workout. Just a few days ago, a woman accosted me..."will you stop following me around! you go everywhere I go...stop it!" Obviously not a serious incident...I calmly tried to explain that her perception was altogether wrong; the fact is, I was barely aware of her existence, let alone "stalking" her.
The best I could do was simply deny that I wasn't doing what I was accused of. But the situation felt awfully similar to being asked "do you beat your wife frequently"? Why would she accuse me if I was in fact innocent? I am still quite distressed by this situation, and wonder what the proper course of action should be the next time we cross paths.
29
@bobg
Wave and tell her to stop following you!
16
Did the women who sold their voices for thousands of dollars or for a role in a movie feel guilty for not preventing the next woman to be harrassed? Had they not taken the money for their silence,they could have told any future woman- screaming loud and clear to be careful, this man might rape you!
13
Wondering if Ms. Rotunno advised Weinstein to start using a rollator out in public.................
7
The bully predator needs an attorney to mother and protect him from all the women he cruelly abused and raped. He's a coward (see walker).
14
A lawyer is being a lawyer.
7
Weinstein has a right to any defense lawyer he chooses . I always ask how come none of these women called the police when the alleged attack took place. It doesn't make it right if it was true but it would give the women more credibility if they did. Unfortunately I believe most of the women were looking to get ahead in their careers.
15
Actress was asked to attend meeting, arrives to find Weinstein in his bathrobe. She refuses sex and leaves. Weinstein then gets revenge by getting director Peter Jackson to remove her from casting list. (This occurred and Jackson has come forward with this.)
Which part of that should she have reported to the police?
13
Actresses have known for many years that the fast track in Hollywood started on the directors couch. The faux outrage concerning Harvey is not believable and sounds more like vindictive women who used Harvey, but didn’t get the parts they thought they then deserved. METOO# was just a convenient godsend for their ulterior purposes, it appears! Over 80 of them have law suits pending now , and more will follow “ the mon$y!”
13
"She put the teenage girl through a brutal cross-examination, because “her story was not great.” Afterward, she asked the prosecutor to pass a message on to the girl: “Tell her I had a job to do. I don’t want this to define what happens to her.”"
Im sure the teenage rape victim will completely understand that you were just 'doing your job'.
Disgusting.
28
Kudos to Donna Rotunno!
Innocent until proven guilty! How and why is this so hard to understand?
14
Weinstein attorney Donna Rotunno: "If we have 500 positives that come from a movement, but the one negative is that it strips you of your right to due process and a fair trial, and the presumption of innocence, then to me, not one of those things can outweigh the one bad."
Who said anything about stripping Weinstein or others accused of sex crimes of their right to due process?
If the law is on your side, pound the law.
If the facts are on your side, pound the facts.
If the facts and the law are both against you, pound the table.
15
That there is any controversy here is ridiculous. Should everyone the right to have an attorney represent them against a prosecution or not? If you think yes, then don't complain about attorneys who represent people you don't like. How would you have it otherwise? You'll single out Weinstein because he's a bad man and deny him representation? Or only a certain kind of person (not a woman) would be allowed to represent him? That's insane.
17
I love how people are acting like the media doesn't jump to "guilty" on a regular basis. I was coincidentally listening to a "The Daily" episode just today regarding the charges of sexual abuse towards Michael Jackson, and not once was the word "allegedly 'used.
It's presented as fact that Jackson committed unspeakable crimes, despite the fact that both of the accusers, Wade Robson and James Safechuck, testified in Jackson's defense in 2005 and are now in the middle of a monetary lawsuit for his estate. Neither of those facts were mentioned at all.
Does that mean that Jackson definitely didn't molest them? No, but people should have all of the facts, not just ones that fit the narrative of the alleged victim. The same is true of Harvey Weinstein.
8
Irony that so many of same folks who would never execute a person for fear that a murderer was wrongly convicted want to throw out due process, the presumption of innocence, and the duty of an attorney to represent her client to the fullest possible legal extent when the issue is alleged sexual misconduct. #believewomen is wrong. #listenandinvestigate is right.
8
Many commenters seem to assume that only men are able to perpetrate rape. One comment below by FED UP says
"Rape and violence have a gender and it isn't female."
Unfortunately, rape an violence have no gender.
Female therapy worker, 29, sentenced to 8 years for raping autistic boy, 13, in his Gresham bedroom
https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2019/04/female-therapy-worker-29-sentenced-to-8-years-for-raping-autistic-boy-13-in-his-gresham-bedroom.html
4
@S.G.
A week doesn’t go by now that some female teacher doesn’t get arrested for doing the boys. They used to just say “ lucky dude” but equality under the law has progressed somewhat. I have noticed that parents and school systems will still tend to sweep the woman-on-girl cases under the rug. As one parent told me to justify it “ at least she wasn’t going to get pregnant.”
1
Well, first let's get that backlog of 100s of thousands of untested rape kits processed before we discuss whether MeToo has overreached. Seems to me we need to get there first before we start discussing whether we've gone too far.
21
There seems to be serious confusion between Harvey Weinstein's crimes and The MeToo movement at large. Weinstein's crimes (most of which were openly known in the Hollywood movie industry and covered up by those who are being awarded with Globes and Oscars) are horrific and he deserves to be held FULLY responsible for thew atrocities he has committed. MeToo is also a toxic and dangerous movement which suggests we believe all women... as though there are not those who will openly use this is slanderous and nefarious ways. Two things can be true at once.
174
Well said. Metoo has gone way too far. We can’t just believe all women. And survivors of Weinstein/sexual assault need to be separate from those that fend off verbal comments.
15
@Mystery Lits there's believing and there's proof, evidence, due process. If you or any one runs up to me and tells me they've been assaulted, I'm going to believe them right away, call the police & an investigation starts. Why should it be any different? Believing in someone doesn't mean the person is guilty.
10
@Sandy
Yeah- don’t believe all women!
That’s the dumbest rally cry I’ve ever heard.
The is no epidemic of falsely accused men. None. You may read of a case here and there and it shakes you to your core because you are insecure about yourself.
There is however an epidemic of women who get raped and get ZERO justice.
42
Harvey Weinstein is a predatory animal. Whether he committed crimes as exist in law will be determined but no one who knew of him disputes his evil behavior,. Also culpable are those who covered up and/or intimidated witnesses - they chose to exist on the other side of decency.
The #metoo movement is most of all a sounding board for women to feel that someone is at least listening to them. Whether there will be long term change may be due to more women in the workplace, stronger support systems, but it's been a huge boost to many.
He found a woman willing to attack that movement, to tie it into his behavior as if decades of abusing women is somehow now being unfair to him. She is like all his employees, earning a lot of money to protect him.
Men who take advantage of vulnerable women just because they can are very low forms of life. Rich or poor they have no value to humanity.
8
There are stories all over about men who will no longer mentor women or talk to them with the door closed.
There are stories about young women wildly overreacting, ie reporting men to HR for inviting them out for coffee.
We're going to extremes on both sides. I hope we get back to some kind of sane middle soon.
1047
In the corporate world I don't mentor women and am very careful about compliments which might be construed as innapropriate. It is sad that the pendulum has swung so far towards guilt before evidence, even if Weinstein is guilty he deserves a fair trial and all men in power, we are not predictors!
152
Denying women mentorship opportunities upholds the patriarchy. It provides greater opportunity for power to pass from men to other men. It’s straight up discriminatory.
One could argue that a mentee of any gender could report their mentor for abuse. I think as a mentor if you don’t want to put yourself in that position, you should watch your behavior and your language rather that arbitrarily depriving women of opportunities.
That said, there are ways for men to mentor women that don’t require them to be 1:1 in a closed door setting. Couldn’t you mentor her at her desk surrounded by other employees? Couldn’t you have group mentoring sessions with more than one mentee? Just a thought.
245
@Talbot With most change overreaction occurs. THIS is not a bad thing; as it brings consciousness to the forefront and puts people on alert to consider their values of respect and sensitivity. Repression leads to rebellion says James Baldwin and women are overdue for the fight to keep unwanted touching, sexualized conversation, and power abuse away from them. TOWANDA.
73
“If we have 500 positives that come from a movement, but the one negative is that it strips you of your right to due process and a fair trial, and the presumption of innocence, then to me, not one of those things can outweigh the one bad,” she said in an interview. “We can’t have movements that strip us of our fundamental rights.”
===
And bam, there it is: truth.
The problem is, of course, is that in cases such as these, even Weinstein, it is hard to come up with actual evidence. I'm sorry to say that it also does not help that individuals have sat on their complaints for long periods of time, not to mention the mass of complaints that arise at one time. It all starts to smell a bit (which is not to say there are false accusations, but rather, why did everyone wait? the excuses are just that: excuses).
Again, though, we cannot ignore laws just because they seem to get in the way. If they are bad or need changing, then they should be changed. But until then, the courts are the only means to legal justice in this country, not accusations, not Twitter, and not waiting 20 years to say "hey, I need to speak up now...".
4
I hate the #metoo movement and fully endorse Ms.Rotuuno’s position. I’ve hated #metoo ever since it took down Al Franken, an intelligent, hardworking, dedicated Senator who did a lot of good things for Minnesota, who loved his job, did it with joy and was much needed in politics today. Almost all of his accusers were women who did photo ops with him at State Fairs and got bent out of shape about a hand on their waist or such. Just pure nonsense. But media hysteria and the Senate Democratic caucus really put the knife in his back. Not even a thought about due process by this bunch of lawyers who knew Al and the kind of man he was. Unforgivable. And truly unjust in every sense of the word.
16
Everyone is entitled to representation in court.
Ask Donald Trump about that.
5
I wasn't alive during the Orson Wells "War of the Worlds" panic, was too young to have been affected by the McCarthy the Orson Wells McCarthy Red scare, but I did watch in stupification as the Day-Care-Sex-Abuse scandal went viral and exploded throughout our country.
Never in my wildest dreams did I think that could ever be topped, I'm afraid were are just at the beginning here with @MeeToo. I'm already surprised that they are giving him a trial rather than just handing out stones.
8
When a woman enters the lair of a well-known masher she has already calculated the risk/benefit axis. Not to excuse Weinstein and his like one bit.
10
@Jeffrey Cosloy Yeah, it would have been interesting if Weinstein never had any women in his movies.
2
We cannot have justice system without a vigorous professional defense.
The injustice isn’t that Weinstein has this defense.
The injustice is that so many other people who are facing serious charges, do not.
And now we have faux shadow courts for the undocumented where the denial of justice is actually the point.
Trump's new border courts are designed to fail
10/13/2019
https://thehill.com/opinion/immigration/465594-the-immigration-system-is-designed-to-fail
This is not America. Not anymore.
6
Even with the #metoo and #believeallwomen movement, the status quo for sex crimes remains that women are not believed and men walk away without a scratch. At most, they may get a bump in their careers and education, but long-term they are more often than not nowhere near as scared and burned as the women who suffer, whether they choose to speak out or not.
I'm all for due process, but I in no way see the slippery slope argument being more than just a fallacy here in way of this being at risk with these movements.
154
@Zambadass Not sure where you live but in America the jails are filled with rapists and people convicted of sex related crimes. 20 years in a state pen, as a victim of daily sex crimes, is hardly a bump in their careers.
5
@keith
"... in America the jails are filled with rapists and people convicted of sex related crimes."
Really? Where is the data showing that jails are "filled" with rapists and others? Please show us some evidence; otherwise, you're just tossing in your own personal opinion. Remember, "anecdotal evidence" is not evidence.
4
@Zambadass
What a joke. Was anybody in an office in the 1970s and '80s? Somebody should write the history of female sexual aggression....everything you have heard works both ways.
For the men, it was just willing agreement, or gentlemanly disengagement.
Nobody called the cops. Nobody to this day is complaining. We live in a fantasy world these days. The kid who said the Emperor has no clothes has been locked up in Juvie.....
This attorney is part of the reason many Americans have no respect for lawyers. Of course Weinstein deserves a defense attorney, just like Trump deserves to have a press secretary, but doing the job at the expense of personal integrity is a little too much to ask, regardless how much money you can make.
372
@Remote And yet we revere as quite honorable John Adam's defense of the British soldiers in the so-called 'Boston Massacre".
15
@Remote As an attorney, I can say that most often the most effective examination is more precise and delicate--letting the witness feel comfortable and at ease so that they lose focus, and make mistakes rather than badgering.
6
@Remote
She’s doing the job she’s been paid to do. A vigorous legal defense. I don’t know why everyone is pearl clutching and hyperventilating over this. The ample evidence will show Weinstein for what he is and he will pay for his egregious and criminal behavior.
32
I cannot bring myself to trust Ms. Rotunno no matter how sharp and aggressive she may y be at trial. Overall, she seems to have made a stand that lines her pockets well. What other woman is taking cases to represent men who have clearly done criminal things to women?
3
Ruining a man's life for inappropriate or awkward flirting - particularly incidents that happened decades ago when it was more the norm - is something the accused deserves defense for. And such cases diminish the credibility of true instances of rape and cheapen the #MeToo cause.
Regarding Harvey Weinstien. He is a sleazeball, yes. But a criminal? That should be left for a jury to determine. Furthermore, if all these actresses really cared about protecting other women from his abuse, why did they not ban together years ago and speak out? It would only have taken two high profile actresses coming forward and going public for it to be taken seriously. They did not because Harvey's films were Oscar bait and they were all competing with each other to get roles in his prestigious films. Everyone is complicit here. Women have to be stronger and not play the victim card decades later. It makes us look weak.
21
@Laura Philips They did but who do you think owns the media? How naive of you to assume.
2
Excellent post
I agree with this lawyer. In today's world no one wants to hear the truth, everyone is interested whose idea or words are more popular etc. I was living in the US, when a jury in Florida acquitted a man of rape because that woman was wearing too revealing clothes and considered that that woman was inviting such behavior.
This #metoo movement is too dangerous because any woman who feels that she was wrong 10 years ago, even in a consensual act, could bring about rape charges.
I have no idea what these women were doing with Harvey in his office. I am quite sure they were too interested in moving along their ambitions and willing to do anything with him. I have seen this in other cases. So, Harvey might not be saint but these women were, in my opinion, just as bad. Let's see how it plays out in court.
9
The me-too movement is a witch hunt. Yes, you may never work again in your chosen field, see your predatory boss promoted despite your valid complaints of sexual harassment, spend years defending an expensive legal claim to have it result in minor compensation, if any (circa 1980’s-90’s). And face severe retaliation for filing such a claim. Justice is worth fighting for, as is self respect, regardless of the attainment there of.
Sexual harassment often occurs behind closed doors, and may be subtle. Generational mores come into play, with many older men unschooled in modern ethos. And often, women are provocative by their very nature. And then there are those women who knowingly take the job they are less qualified for than their not as attractive competitor, except the bargain of career advancement in exchange for access, and these women’s numbers are legion. Also, profession matters. An engineer whose boss harasses her never considered her physical demeanor as a qualification for her position, versus an actress, who, if she has any talent, should be able to manipulate men, physically and over wise. No matter the circumstances, no one, male or female, should be subject to trial by innuendo, gossip, of indefinite timeline, publically humiliated, accused of rape when all the “victim,” had to do was to walk out the door.
6
@observer
Read the facts. The women DID walk out the door when Harvey showed in his bathrobe for meetings. He retaliated and had them pulled from film roles. Ask Peter Jackson.
3
Ms. Rotunno is brave and heroic. Her desire to be a contrarian to mass movements, and to provide the most vigorous defense to her clients is a critical part of a free and just society.
In my book she defines "strong woman," the epitome of feminist.
My comment has nothing to do with Weinstein.
10
Despite the fact that I do not support Harvey Weinstein, I found this article quite interesting as it depicts the upbringing of Mr. Weinstein’s lawyer. She sure sounds like a shark which I guess is the minimum qualification that a sex criminal lawyer requires (for both prosecution and defense sides). Still, I hope justice is served to the victims.
3
Our beliefs and motivations are informed by our experiences. I would bet money that there was a man in Rotunno’s young life who was accused of sexual assault. How else to explain.
6
@JFC Student loans from law school?
1
@JFC I would guess it's the money that lured her. If she gets him off she can name her price in the future.
5
@JFC...
Well... she is also Catholic... and they are known to have a rather odd response to sexual abuse.
Think of Brett Kavanaugh and all of the tens of thousands of children.
If she can prove to society that not all accusations of sexual abuse are authentic... then that could be helpful to the patriarchal reputation of the Roman Catholic Church with their long history of such abuse.
3
Great. Ms Rotunno has taken a path to defend rapists. What a good way to make money. This is obviously just about greed for her because how many women would do this job. Ripping apart the reputations of reputable women. Oh yes, they aren’t ALL rapists. Just some or most. But her specialty is to discredit women who have been brave enough to come forward against a man who has raped and abused dozens of actors who cannot come forward due to statute of limitations or job security. It’s one thing to defend murderers who deserve a defense and are typically not wealthy. It’s another to defend rich rapists. She might as well be a mob lawyer. Actually I’d respect her more for that.
11
I don't care about her secret motivations. The good news is that, following the example of John Adams (Boston Massacre defense lawyer, etc.), someone who can (being female) is standing up for the rule of law.
12
Well, of course #MeToo and other feminists hate her. She dares to believe in the Constitution's Bill of Rights guaranteeing due process of law. Whereas #MeToo people and other feminists are opposed to due process of law. They want punishment prior to trial and conviction. They want punishment even when there never is any trial. They want punishment and conviction based on mere accusation alone in the total absence of any actual supporting evidence. They don't want to allow statutes of limitation to bar prosecution for ancient accusations.
21
John Adams defended, successfully, the British soldier defendants in the Boston massacre.
3
@Eric I'm liking the walker
1
Yeah, the walker is a nice touch, it says "hey I'm just a befuddled old stump of a man, I would never masterbate on potted plants...".
3
"Ms. Allred said. “I don’t believe it is appropriate to go after a victim on the stand with venom.”
That's what Ms Rotunno is talking about. To presuppose a person is a victim implies an assault.
It's not the identity of the alleged attacker that is usually in question, but whether the actions of the accused constitute an illegal assault.
You can't be a victim in a legal sense if you consented to sex.
2
@Ambrose
Of course Allred would say that since she is always representing the alleged victim who is after massive amounts of money.
1
There wasn't any twitter back then (nor NY Times' comments), but I bet the rumblings in the pews was at a similar pitch when John Adams defended the redcoats in the Boston Massacre trial.
1
Hard (though hardly impossible) to believe the NYT wastes an article on rapist Weinstein's lawyer.
"99% of lawyers give the rest of them a bad name."
3
This whole framing of the question is a straw man, and it's a huge shame that it's what the Times chose to put in the headline and lead with, because it's all that many people will read before moving on.
Can anyone name a figure who has been "#MeToo"ed and been "stripped" of actual "fundamental rights"? Not made to feel bad, or booed on stage, or fired after an investigation, or subject to scathing articles on the internet or a snap judgement by someone with a blog, but actually stripped of fundamental rights?
Weinstein is on trial. He will face his accuser, as is his right. He has his defense attorney out here spewing vile, harmful nonsense that actively harms rape victims, as is his right. He will be judged by a jury of his peers, as is his right. He has not been stripped of any rights; he is exercising them right now in real time.
It's a real shame that the Times is parroting this nonsense in a way that gives it any credibility, because it does harm victims.
16
@Polly
You miss the point. #MeToo people and feminists don't want accused me to have those rights. That is why they demean Rotunno. They don't want to have to present supporting evidence.....they want punishment upon mere accusation. They don't want statutes of limitation to apply when women accuse men. Etc. etc. etc.
3
@Polly , you need to have read the NYT ten days ago: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/04/us/dartmouth-lawsuit-bucci.html
Ms. Rotunno represents the epitome of a small but significant type of Republican woman. Perhaps if she can get Weinstein off, the President will name her solicitor general. Hey, anybody Trump grabs by the (female genitalia) should have no recourse in court. One also wonders about if Rotunno practices what she preaches, in her own interpersonal relationships.
5
Really Donna? What you're incensed about is the threat to your clients rights? Get a grip woman! He wasn't the one who was harangued, raped, groped and objectified. He made millions off of using and abusing women. I don't really care about him, and you shouldn't either.
11
Many readers bemoan #MeToo for going too far, and consequentially men are afraid of women now. Afraid of working with them, socializing with them, courting and flirting with them. They cry out for sanity and perspective to return to “the middle”.
Here’s the thing though: where is “the middle” and “the center”?
I bet most women and victims of sexual violence and harassment hear those words and think “status quo”. And if you’ve ever been truly victimized - or known and loved someone who has - business as usual is Hell.
We need a better class of police officers. We need vastly more competent forensic investigators. We need strict and swift accountability for bureaucratic incompetence - losing rape kit tests is unacceptable and a travesty.
We need judges to overrule questions about what women wore, how many sexual partners they’ve had, what kind of sex they enjoy —and if they don’t, they need to be disbarred.
These are only off the top of my head. And they are gargantuan, never-in-my lifetime steps towards “the middle”.
So if my fellow men want to stop fearing women and return to a sane world, step up and help fight for the sisterhood. Because until then, I’m all for going too far. I’m not afraid.
13
What sex cases highlight is that the legal system is not and never has been able to properly or justly deal with these sorts of crimes. Far better to suffer grievous bodily harm (where there is loads of physical evidence, it may not have happened in private and consent is no defence) than rape or sexual assault. Lawyers mindlessly quote platitudes like “innocent until proven guilty” and “due process” as though they are some kind of holy gospel, rather than a social choice. The justification is a noble one, by presuming innocence and making it hard to convict, the legal system is deliberately conservative and supposedly everyone’s freedom is protected. Better that 9 guilty men are acquitted than 1 innocent man convicted so the argument goes. Better for whom? In sex cases this principle is highly gendered, because it means that nine victims get no justice and men have more or less impunity. Also, ask a black or a poor man, how “innocent until proving guilty” is working. It doesn’t necessarily prevent the innocent from being convicted, but it gives us a false sense of confidence about how well the legal system is actually working. Maybe the presumption of innocence is a bit like democracy, the worst system apart from all the others and we can’t ditch it. But, please let’s not worship it so uncritically, or use it to discount a brave victim’s testimony so lightly. Also, there are huge disincentives to claiming sexual harassment and assault inside and outside the courtroom.
7
People just can't get it through their heads - defense attorneys aren't just defending their clients, they're defending the law.
What happens to the law if there is no one there to defend it?
12
@Gabe
As a lawyer, I don't see criminal defense lawyers as quite as pure as you do. Yes, they're there to make sure the Government doesn't railroad people and it's an important function. Many are highly professional, but some distort the law and come close to breaking the rules of ethics in order to achieve a desired result.
If you want an example, watch the multipart ESPN documentary on the O.J. Simpson trial in which his lawyers revel in how they manipulated the jurors. For example, they changed all the art in Simpson's home for the jury visit so it would look like Simpson was more interested in Black culture than he actually was in order to play up to the Black jurors. Simpson was instructed to stop taking his arthritis medication so the glove wouldn't fit. One of the lawyers was grinning about this like the Cheshire Cat.
This is another high-profile trial with a wealthy defendant. The team will do anything to win. Or do you think Weinstein really needs that walker and can't afford a better-fitting suit?
10
It is critical that we not allow mob justice to replace "innocent until proven guilty" in this country. It may be fashionable to hold men to account, but historically, the victim of assumed guilt is rarely a white male. We should preserve our institutions and decency while we push for female accusers to be taken seriously.
12
@MacGuffin
We're having a discussion. Where's the "mob justice"? Upon being empaneled, the jurors take an oath swearing to follow the Court's instructions on the law. They're usually not supposed to read anything about the case while serving as jurors.
Articles and comments are important because they are how laypeople learn about our justice system.
4
Absolutely true but the courts should practice caution when permitting the destruction of a respectable woman’s reputation during this kind of trial. There are better protections for former criminal behavior than the reputations of women as if such prior acts are proof that someone like Weinstein did not do what she said he did. I don’t care if a woman was a prostitute, it should be irrelevant regarding her truthfulness in these trials. We would not treat len this was and we don’t permit the exposure of past criminal behavior as relevant. Court practices need to change.
2
@Lifelong Reader
Al Franken anyone?
That was Congressional mob justice!
2
Although I initially celebrated the #MeToo movement, it fast became so over-the-top that I believe it will destroy all the progress that women have made to date. In this sense and others, yes, it is very dangerous. I hate to see things that are positive and forward-thinking become so reactionary that they are reduced to mere fads, and that is precisely what has happened. That said, Ms. Rotunno, your client promises to be an entirely different can of worms...
13
She’s a magnificent capitalist! These men critically need a woman to defend them. And, most of all, they can pay well.
This is a great market, I would assume more women lawyers would currently be assessing this opportunity!
It’s great! Perhaps nobody likes the “me too” movement more than such a lawyer!
More women lawyers will surely see the financial rewards here in a money-rules culture.
The “me too” movement will likely keep chugging out these men, and these women can make the big bucks!! It might even be viewed as an ironic twist of justice that the women make the big bucks from defending these men.
4
I agree that the #Metoo movement has gone too far and has been utterly indiscriminate in terms of the cases brought to the public's attention. Lives and careers and livelihoods are being ruined, oftentimes as a result of past conduct that has more to do with plain and simple sexual overtures than it does with a male wielding power over a female victim. In essence, when a man tries to use sex to intimidate and exert POWER over a woman, in any shape or form, be it a movie role, a raise or a promotion, that is a criminal offense that we need to all get behind. Conversely, just trying to "hit someone up", as we say in colloquial terms, is a completely different story. We should not confuse the two. In fact, I believe each case is very different and should be judged individually. I will also say that many men who are being accused of sexism are old timers who we can't expect to change from one day to the next. Lastly, I believe we need to eradicate sexism in ourselves first: this is a patriarchy, sexism is ingrained on all of us, men, women and children, and, therefore, the only long-term solution is educating and reeducating ourselves and our youth to think in a different way.
3
Real justice requires protecting rights, even for bad people like Weinstein. Stories aren't evidence, and it's surely true that manipulation goes in different directions for the parties involved.
5
@David
Right you are. Newspaper articles aren't evidence. But victims spoke to prosecutors, gave sworn testimony to a grand jury, and there was evidence to proceed. More 80 women have complained about Weinstein.
3
Mr. Weinstein deserves a fair trial like anyone else. I agree with Attorney Rotunno's stated viewpoint that it's very possible (of course, it's happened many times) that certain women may use a rich man's weaknesses to manipulate the situation to the woman's advantage. Matters of the heart and sexual activity among consenting adults should not be prosecuted like a crime. Crimes such as rape, assault, harassment and coercion should, of course, be prosecuted. There is a significant difference between the two, the latter requiring due process, which constitutes an equitable society.
2
It is disappointing that so many commenters have adopted the Trump tactic of demonizing lawyers who represent people they oppose or deem unworthy. It is the highest calling of an attorney to represent the publicly hated and reviled.
Freedom depends on lawyers willing to fight to ensure that no one, not even someone "obviously guilty", is deprived of freedom without making the government can prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. These brave lawyers don't fight only for their client of the moment but for all of us. If we make it easy to put someone like Weinstein in jail because he is an obnoxious human and "obviously" guilty we make it easy for the government to put you and me in jail. Recent revelations of thousands wrongly convicted should make us all wary of denying anyone a stout defense.
History abounds with examples of the defense of liberty by lawyers willing to represent hated clients. John Adams represented British soldiers accused of massacring Boston citizens. Lawyers vigorously represented the Rosenbergs, Charles Manson, accused Communists, and serial killer. In fiction, this bravery is exemplified by Atticus Finch.
Those wanting to stop predators cheer the work of Weinstein's lawyers as they ensure the integrity of whatever the final judgment on him may be. Some defendants are found not guilty, most are found guilty, but we all benefit no matter the outcome in any one trial.
8
@David
She is cruel and vindictive to women who are brave enough to speak out. I would say the same to any male lawyer as they are getting paid to ruin innocent lives.
3
@David
Everyone has a right to a defense by competent counsel. But no lawyer is required to defend anyone unless ordered by a court, which is not the case here. Weinstein's legal team is being highly compensated and also hoping to reap the rewards of the publicity.
If you read Ms. Rotunno's comments, she is the one who has been demonizing a movement created to protect women, as well as individual victims.
3
I wonder what Ms. Rotunno would say if she had been the victim instead of those who Mr. Weinstein is accused of attacking? It’s one thing to disdain a school of thought eschewed by the MeToo movement; it’s quite another when they’re getting their day in court, just like her client. Sounds like out of court testimony by someone who isn’t a witness.
3
"I don’t believe it is appropriate to go after a victim on the stand with venom.”-
Interesting comment from an attorney, since under our system of law, there is no victim, only an accuser, prior to a finding that there was a crime. It is this pre-judgment that one person must be telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and the other must therefore be a self-serving liar, that judicial process interrogates in order to determine, to the extent humanly possible, what in fact occurred. Ms. Rotunno is precisely in the right, regardless of her motives (and you can make money while doing right).
7
What I gather from this article, and I think this lawyer is spot on, is that the public is doing itself a disservice at publicly convicting a man, who might very well be a monster, before evidence is shown. I don’t doubt he probably did what bad, awful things to many women, but this trial is about 2 women and their experiences. It should be demonstrated with evidence that it happened to them what they said happened, for him to be convicted. It should not matter if 100 other women were raped by him, only if these 2 ladies happened to have been sexually involved with him forcefully with them not expecting anything in return. If they were grossed out during the act, (we know he is not the most handsome man) but still did it expecting something in return and then not getting what they wanted, they cannot come back crying rape, it was only a consensual bad experience. That is what she needs to prove. I did not read anything about Her saying that she believes he is innocent, her job is winning by 1.- demonstrating it was consensual or 2.- by lack of evidence it was not rape; independently of her feelings towards him. If society convicts before time, risks setting a precedent that could damage future trials. That’s all she is saying.
5
While not having a soul isn't, strictly speaking, essential to being a rich and successful criminal defence lawyer, it's certainly an advantage.
12
“It’s sad,” she said, “that men have to worry about being complimentary and pleasant to women.”
No, Ms. Rotunno. We don't.
The spin of this statement has made me dizzy. No one has accused your client of being complimentary and pleasant to women. The opposite, in fact. What men should worry about is being held accountable for harassing, discriminating, assaulting, and raping women. Being held accountable for these actions is long overdue.
16
My late father was a criminal lawyer. I remember a case (gang rape) when victim's parents pressed charges because preparators' s parents refused to pay a "compensation." It was hard to get any clear account of what had happened because everybody involved was drunk.
Some cases can be perplexing when you see them first hand.
1
Love the comments from men who state they can't mentor or help or maybe even talk to women at work anymore. I've worked in the male dominated tech industry for my entire 40 year career and not once has a man provided mentorship as I attempted to climb the ladder. Not one. The only men who focused interest were trying to hit on me and I had to walk the delicate walk of trying to say no without hurting their feelings.
So now men are through mentoring or helping women figure out how to grow in their careers. Yeah, right. Thanks for nothing.
18
@Rebecca
So in your entire career the many men you must have worked with never lifted you up? But they lifted up other men, therefore being sexist? And hit on you as well? Could you have possibly displayed a very negative attitude toward men during that time? That approach seems to lump all men together and despise them. And that would improve things?
I think you’re right. There have been instances where I’ve had less interest in mentoring a woman than hitting on them. In other instances, I’ve wanted to mentor a woman because there seemed to be more to the relationship and I’ve experienced many more instances between the two extremes. I have not been able to offer everything I have to every woman I meet. Mostly, I’ve not been able to resist hitting on a woman during those moments when that is all that I saw in the relationship. I’ve hit on women thinking all there was to be only to find I actually liked them more than I thought I ever would. Most of the time this has worked. And, I’ve come to believe, most women behave and react to similar situations similarly.
I’ve found, however, there to be both men and women who just do not get this chronological spectrum of mostly randomized feelings / thoughts / impressions going on on both sides and thus have not been able to work with anyone but not being able to walk away, either. I can imagine this situation to be a humiliating /degrading experience at times. I know both men and women like this who are chronically / perpetually frustrated by their relationships with others.
Successful relationships might be complicated and messy give-and-take relationships. Successful relationships might be easy, as well. Life has always been full of surprises where a willingness to work with what is in front of you makes it worthwhile / meaningful.
Reading this article, it appears she is the attorney you hate until you need a good defense, like many defense attorneys.
While she may be seen as the devil as Weinstein is guilty of many of the charges, she is the attorney you need if you are wrongfully charged by your spouse for abuse in divorce fights or other wrongful accusations.
Woman do deserve justice, but many women are treacherous and will bite that hand that feeds them, or be spiteful when the hand stops feeding them, so for the guys who are actually not-guilty of these types of crimes, they need a good attorney.
2
Your comment made my stomach turn. And I literally gasped when I saw that it had been written by another woman.
Very few women are sadistic enough to accuse a purely innocent man of rape. It’s a bad gamble and rarely successful. The few cases of such egregious injustice are used as a tree trunk to bash all women over the head for even considering valid accusations.
Some famous men finally have to answer for dangerous, humiliating behavior and you portray a world of Medusas gazing on helpless males, threatening to turn them to stone unless they agree to be extorted.
1
Kudos to her for doing her job. I thought that by 2020, the legal profession and the media would be beyond the point where it is a big story that a woman represents a guy accused of rape. Women become lawyers for many reasons. There are a lot of us out there. Criminal defense attorneys are usually a tough breed who, believe it or not, care about the presumption of innocence. This article reeks of weird sexism that I thought was behind us. Unfortunately, the description of her clothes, etc. brought me back to reality: sexism is alive and well despite the hashtag era of MeToo.
8
Men don't have to worry about being complimentary and pleasant to women. That's a false narrative. Men do have worry who were abusive to women on staff by drawing on their sexuality to demean them. Me too said yeah this happened to me too. I don't discredit Ms. Rotunno for doing a great job but to say that "your dress is nice" and "what do you look like naked" are not two completely different things and men don't know the difference is manipulation of the truth. That line irks me, that these poor men don't know what to say anymore.
12
Harvey Weinstein transformation to Gollum is almost completed.
9
Less than handsome Harvey Vs Pretty young women? Don't even bother with reading the charges, Harvey has no chance! Golly, it is not so easy to have an open and fair trial, because as we all know, women never lie about this stuff. Glad to see at least one person (woman) will to stand up and demand fair and even handed justice.
6
"That has earned her the scorn of some women’s rights advocates, who have suggested she may be motivated as much by the recognition and future work the case will bring her as by her legal principles."
What??? you mean she is trying to grow her business and career?? How Dare She!!
7
“It’s sad,” she said, “that men have to worry about being complimentary and pleasant to women.”
That would be sad, it was true.
4
She's exhibit A of why people have a negative impression of lawyers (I'm a lawyer). The defense's job is to make the plaintiff/prosecution prove its case. It is not to terrorize rape victims on the witness stand. Is there inconsistency? Ok, ask about it, bring it out. But unless you're convinced the witness is lying and perjuring herself, you don't harangue and belittle trying to score a point. She's gross, and figured out a way to make a buck, by having no shame. As we learned in 2016, you can go very far if your constitution can put up with acting like that.
11
I think that the whole thing is murky! During the #me too explosion, allegations used words like assault, rape, harassment etc interchangeably at which point I became critical especially with accusers that kept quiet because they wanted fame and money regardless of the consequences to other victims that would follow. As for Weinstein, yeah, he did it and more but from here on out, if a crime has been committed then call the police! Instead of waiting years to finally develop "courage".
4
How about the fundamental right of all women to NOT be pressured into sexual acts by a predator.
This woman is a very good example of why I dislike many lawyers, they'd sell their own soul for a win even if their client is guilty.
7
@Oliver
How about the fundamental right of everybody to NOT be pressured into sexual acts by a predator?
Men are not the only guilty party here. No meToo activists coming to the rescue, I am afraid
Female therapy worker, 29, sentenced to 8 years for raping autistic boy, 13, in his Gresham bedroom
https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2019/04/female-therapy-worker-29-sentenced-to-8-years-for-raping-autistic-boy-13-in-his-gresham-bedroom.html
1
@Oliver because you're certain he's guilty it would seem a waste of money and time to have a trial.
"She’s Harvey Weinstein’s Lawyer, and She Thinks #MeToo Is ‘Dangerous’"
Well, one should not be surprised. There are three basic groups that consider the #MeToo movement a threat; hence "dangerous."
The first group is made up of rich and, sometimes, powerful women that fall in the category of "cougar". These women have become very uncomfortable with the #MeToo movement because they see the writing on the wall: "One day there will knock at your door." They are afraid that the table will be turned and those young men whom they have sexually exploited in the past show up in courts and sue them for all kinds of damages.
The second group are Mr. Trump's loyalists who consider the #MeToo movement a danger to Mr. Trump's re-election. They see the movement's raison d'etre is to serve one objective: to draw attention to Mr. Trump's womanizing and his repeated infidelity vis-à-vis his wives. They believe the #MeToo movement to be Democrat's creation; a set up for putting those ladies that claim to have "a history" with Mr. Trump in front of the TV cameras at a crucial moment during the next election.
The last group who consider the #MeToo movement to be dangerous are all those powerful men who had once a mistress - often someone in the office - and at some point they decided either to terminate the relationship or replace one mistress with another. They are now having sleepless nights wondering if the MeToo movement could encourage her to come out; determined to "take revenge."
3
@Eddie B.
You forgot the fourth group: Intelligent people who understand the Constitution and hate mob rule.
1
It's comical how criminals use walkers to elicit sympathy from judges and juries while on trial, then probably throw them into a closet when out of the public eye. One of the Trumpies currently in prison tried this tactic last year, and now Weinstein is trying to win an Emmy for his use of his walker. I'll bet many criminal defence attorneys keep a couple of them in their office closets for this very purpose.
6
Love the walker...after all, how can he be a predator if he cannot get around?
4
#MeToo hasn't changed the court system. You and Harvey Weinstein still have your rights. What laws have changed? Until someone like Brock Turner serves more than 3 months in jail for committing assault (that he was CAUGHT doing), then no, #MeToo is just fine.
11
@Long Islander Brilliant comment, thank you.
2
Give this guy an Oscar! He's obviously picked up a few acting tips ... and been studying Bill Cosby.
Admittedly, I'm in a sour mood as posting this.
(Sex Predator) Trump is in our area, having one of his horrifying rallies later tonight, and just the knowledge he's in the vicinity has cast an extra pall on the day.
7
“It’s sad,” [Ms Rotunno] said, “that men have to worry about being complimentary and pleasant to women.”
It is sad that this reporter can infer that this is what Mr. Weinstein is being accused of here. This article could have used some context - a paragraph or two about what Mr. Weinstein is alleged to have done here - so that the allegations could not be so easily dismissed as a run of the mill workplace flirtation.
8
A woman lawyer feasting on a specialty lawsuits which many cannot stomach.
How impressive, It reminds me Epstein lawyer Dershowitz.
4
His walker reminds me of the Mafia bosses showing up in court in wheel chairs and walkers. Faker!!!
4
"We can’t have movements that strip us of our fundamental right", to be raped by filthy rich sexual predators.
5
“Having voluntary sex with someone even if it is a begrudging act is not a crime after the fact." -Ms. Rotunno
Quick question: what does 'begrudging' mean in this sentence?
Is locking the door of a hotel room, pinning a woman down, and forcing her to have sex with you...'begrudging' consent on her part?
Answer: No. That's called rape. Rot in prison, Weinstein.
11
Accusation with no due process ?
Why would they be dangerous ?
2
#MeToo IS dangerous.
Lots of things that are necessary are also dangerous. It merely means we have to be very careful about them. They are dangerous precisely because they are necessary but also complex, subject to abuse if lightly applied, but related to life changing, even life destroying, activities.
We still have race problems because truly dealing with race is dangerous, so we keep avoiding going at it all the way.
Avoiding such deeply dangerous things does not really work.
3
To readers who complained about the discussion of the lawyer's outfit:
That wasn't a gratuitous or sexist point. A trial is partly a performance. Lawyers think very carefully about what they wear because of the effect on the jury. In trial classes, they are taught that juries expect lawyers to look like successful professionals but sometimes they tone down their appearance, for example, leaving extremely expensive watches at home. Private, criminal defense attorneys often dress flashily as their signature. It's also not true that distinctive dress by male attorneys isn't commented on.
6
Innocent until PROVEN guilty and due process. Thank you Ms. Rotunno. We are a nation of laws. Let's not lose that.
12
a walker but not on week-ends at Target...just saying
10
So this flamboyant, highly paid attorney is really a brave and selfless patriot in disguise? Please.
10
The article and comments section should come with a trigger warning. As someone who has been raped and harassed, I feel re-traumatized reading through and identifying the all too familiar lack of empathy.
14
@Elle As someone who has been robbed at gunpoint I can still see the value of a legal process vs frontier "justice."
2
An oversized suit and a walker. The perfect combo to convey a helpless dote - clearly not capable of chasing a naked 23 yo girl around a hotel room! Combine that with a strong woman as your defender and you might be able to convince at least one juror that you aren’t the evil person that you really are....
11
If there is someone that you do not like, accuse them of sexual misconduct and destroy their lives whether guilty or not while the alleged victim gets to remain unidentified.
6
@Bruce Northwood Why are you advising people to do this?
Also, this comment has nothing to do with the NYT article.
3
@dannyboy
ask your grandkids to explain it to you
There is an uncomfortable reality here that most people don’t want to deal with. A lot of people use a lot of people in corporate America and particularly in Hollywood. Harvey Weinstein is a disgusting human being, of course.
But the fact is that there are many women who understood what the game was and wanted to get ahead and did what they did, got what they wanted and then remained silent afterward.
They had a choice. They could have walked out. Perhaps they would’ve lost the part in whatever movie he was casting and that is wrong and unfortunate. They could’ve spoken out About what had transpired in order to publicly shame this man and men like him and protect the next woman who walked through that door. They chose not to.
Most things in life are not black-and-white.
Of course I am not speaking about the women who were actually raped. Only those who felt “pressured” and went along with they had the choice to leave.
6
@Chris wrote: "But the fact is that there are many women who understood what the game was and wanted to get ahead and did what they did, got what they wanted and then remained silent afterward.
They had a choice."
What does this have to do with this trial?
5
This will be a permanent stain on her.
10
There may be men wrongly accused in this environment. But I doubt there are any men wrongly accused who have 80 separate accusers like Mr. Weinstein has.
14
Hats off to Ms. Rotunno. Thankfully she has raised the conversation to the level of logic, responsibility and legality. The values of the would-be actresses were put aside for their own gain by their own choice. His methods could have been squelched long ago if all these wonderful women had just said "no". Waiting until they became rich and famous seems a bit irresponsible to me. What will they tell their daughters? Do any dirty deed to get ahead and than complain later? This has caused a chain reaction of stupidity, down to the the forced resignation of Senator Franken who touched a woman's clothed behind in trying to get closer for a photo she requested. Balance and critical thinking are required here.
3
@JRO wrote: "The values of the would-be actresses were put aside for their own gain by their own choice. His methods could have been squelched long ago if all these wonderful women had just said 'no'."
You must know by now that Mr Weinstein is being tried for raping. Rape means against a person's will
5
@dannyboy which is what this trial is meant to assess.
1
@dannyboy
In November the Judge ruled: "Burke ruled that while Sciorra's rape allegation was too old to support a formal charge, also known as falling outside the statute of limitations, prosecutors could use it to bolster their case that Weinstein exhibited a pattern of predatory sexual behavior."
from CBS news
According to this article she graduated law school at age 21?
2
Mr. Weinstein has a right to defend himself against criminal accusations, and a right to an attorney.
Ms Rotunno has taken an oath to zealously represent her clients under the lawyers' code of professional responsibility.
Nonetheless, this female attorney representing a Hollywood mogul using a walker has the appearance of a shill doing her best to dissemble for a grifter.
5
Men need to understand that rape isn't just one clearcut violent act. It takes multiple forms.
As for Ms. Rotunno, I agree there should always be due process for the accused. I totally disagree that she is representing Weinstein for some "higher purpose."
Lastly, she lost me when she led him into court with that ridiculous walker.
5
High-profile Canadian lawyer Marie Henein came under attack when she defended former CBC personality Jian Gomeshi, who was accused of sexually assaulting several women. Whatever we may think of defendants like Weinstein (as far as I can tell he's a pig), at the end of the day it's about the facts of the case and who can make a better argument. If Weinstein is acquitted, reserve your anger for the prosecutors for not doing a better job.
3
If our modern liberal society does give Greta Thurnberg so much credit for being so responsible looking into the consequences of our behavior (and she is only 17..) why should we exonerate all the girls and women who were victims of monsters (call it Weinstein, or call it Epstein) how can we exonerate them of their own responsabilities? They knew what did expect them and nevertheless persisted having contact with those men, because they obviously had their own gain. The actress hoped to have the part she wished, the others hoped to find a prince...
Don't misunderstand me: I condemn twhat was done to them without their consent, but I have to ask: why persist and not immediately after that, go to the police or or or....
4
God bless this woman!
Who did Ms. Rotunno sleep with to get hired as defense counsel here?
I am asking only because that is the type of question Ms. Rotunno will be asking of the 80 or so women accusing Mr. Weinstein here, and why it was so brave of them to come forward.
8
everyone is forgetting the Capitalistic path nation has chosen is primarily in Predator nature. anyone who has subjected to any unwanted act is #METOO. So where shall we start ? This case became focused because of glitz that's all to it. #Metoo moment is disgrace from every dimension of it . We stopped cultivating values at homes , we just raise people with some tenets which turn whole society into a confused rebels or commercial success aspirants with motto like like get the job done with what ever it takes attitude. This attitude creates a mess like the situation people fall prey into . Its our natural behavior that when we sense some discomfort , we avoid and walk away , but the case we are looking at , people behaved otherwise ? why ? who is responsible for Weinstein in Making ?
Gloria Allred, a lawyer who represents two of Mr. Weinstein’s accusers, disagreed. “A bully is a bully, regardless of their gender,” Ms. Allred said. “I don’t believe it is appropriate to go after a victim on the stand with venom.”
Mr. Weinstein has not been found guilty of any criminal act.
Gloria Allred is wrong the person on the stand is an alleged victim.
Donna Rotunno is correct the #MeToo movement demands that if a woman accuses a man of doing something that accusation should and must be taken as fact. That is wrong.
3
This is more Trumpian nonsence. Voluntary sex? With Weinstein?
Having voluntary sex with someone even if it is a begrudging act is not a crime after the fact.”
3
Everyone has a right to a fair trial. Everyone has a right to an attorney. Sure sure. We all get it. The requirements of justice and all that. But let’s not overthink this one, ok? This woman is pretty disgusting.
5
@BBB
As a man who has been falsely accused, I don’t think you do get it.
False accusations can be as damaging to someone’s life as rape.
Your trivializing tone towards due process is triggering to me
4
And, of course, the obligatory sartorial comments within the top third of the article. If it were “Mr. Rotunno,” would you be reporting on his Brioni suits and the impact on the courtroom? SMH
@Marty M
I've read several descriptions about any flashy or distinctive clothing male attorneys were wearing. It's usually criminal defense attorneys who dress to stand out.
This is only a talking point she can bring up because he is white.
1
Rape and violence have a gender and it isn't female.
4
@FED UP
What you said is ignorant and sexist. Being a perv is not exclusive of any gender.
These cases are not so uncommon:
Female therapy worker, 29, sentenced to 8 years for raping autistic boy, 13, in his Gresham bedroom
https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2019/04/female-therapy-worker-29-sentenced-to-8-years-for-raping-autistic-boy-13-in-his-gresham-bedroom.html
He is John Gotti's lawyer. He thinks the anti-mafia movement is "dangerous."
He is Hannibal Lector's lawyer. He thinks the anti-cannibal movement is "dangerous."
5
First, I don't care what Ms. Rotunno wears, so there's that. I do agree with her on one thing: women cannot have it both ways. They cannot dress like hookers and expect a hands-off presumption. They cannot meet with men in hotel rooms and assume it is a safe space. If Ms. Rotunno zeroes in on these sorts of inconsistencies, then she's doing her job. It is far too easy to be falsely accused for her not to be a pit bull about it. The fact that this clearly liberated woman is able to make these distinctions in defending even those whom many might consider the scum of the earth is as admirable as it is infuriating.
6
@DMS Why can't women dress any way they want and expect a hands-off presumption?
Do you allow anyone who wants to do whatever they want to you depending on your outfit?
3
@dannyboy
If I'm wearing revealing seductive clothing, stilettos, etc. then, yes, I do expect men to see me as someone who wants to be touched, eventually and when I choose, but touched nonetheless at some point, for sure. If I don't want that, I simply don't dress with that message in mind. Don't be fooled. Every woman knows this at some level.
2
I'd like to see the same vigorous and competent defense provided for every person who is without money as is being provided for Mr. Weinstein, and I'd like to see it provided for even level of crime for which people are indicted. My problem is not that Mr. Weinstein is getting excellent representation, but that only people of his means are. The possibility that any prosecution is malicious should be considered for all defendants, not only those with outrageous amounts of expendable cash.
Strong defense counsel should exist not only for the Weinstein's and the O.J. Simpson's, but should be provided for the poor women and men who swear that they have been victimized.
The poor also should have lawyers who remember everything written on every document, be they defendants or victims. This goes for those who many well have been victims of Mr. Weinstein, whether he his convicted or not. They should have excellent lawyers when they pursue civil litigation against him whether they can afford to pay them or not.
3
The same people complain that Me Too has gone too far are the same ones who whine about political correctness.
Are corrective measures perfect? No. But corrective measures will never, ever, ever be a match for the bad behavior that went unchecked for decades and decades and decades in our society.
13
@New York Times reader
You might not want to so blythely dismiss those people who "whine about political correctness" because you will need them to win elections. The 2018 Hidden Tribes study of political attitudes across the US (and as written about in The Atlantic in October of that year, link below) reveals that, counter to what many NYTimes readers and woke twitter might think, a full 80% of the American public thinks "political correctness is a problem in our country". That number climbs to 87% for Hispanics and 82% for Asians. Even 75% of African Americans are turned off by political correctness.
Proceed with dismissing them as irrelevant or knuckle dragging conservatives at your own risk.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/large-majorities-dislike-political-correctness/572581/
2
@Gunnar Thank you, I'll check this out. We may need them, but I think my parallel stands. Both groups pipe up about the fix but not the eons of abuse they're trying to correct.
2
I don't think it is right to criticize the defense attorney here for taking the case of a man who is hated and despised by perhaps a majority of this country before a shred of evidence has been presented in a court of law under the rules of evidence. There was another fellow, some time ago who risked his career and reputation to defend a group of soldiers accused of murdering a group of Boston Citizens. He was the only lawyer they could find who would defend them. Many years after the case was over that fellow wrote of the experience:
“The Part I took in Defence of Cptn. Preston and the Soldiers, procured me Anxiety, and Obloquy enough. It was, however, one of the most gallant, generous, manly and disinterested Actions of my whole Life, and one of the best Pieces of Service I ever rendered my Country. Judgment of Death against those Soldiers would have been as foul a Stain upon this Country as the Executions of the Quakers or Witches, anciently. As the Evidence was, the Verdict of the Jury was exactly right.” –John Adams, Second President of the United States.
I say to let the evidence be presented to a jury of Mr. Weinstein's peers and let them render a verdict. Hopefully, justice and hopefully right will be done.
9
Thank you for the reference
1
Do women have equal rights yet? Are men still privileged and unaccountable for their actions? Do women fear male violence still?
If the answers to any of these questions is "Yes", then ME TOO has NOT gone far enough let alone "too far".
There will always be quislings among the oppressed like this defender of male prerogative.
407
One only has to look at the law to learn women do NOT have equal rights.
32
Thank you. “Men might be afraid to talk to women” is nothing compared to “Women have been brutally oppressed for centuries.” This is not fixed yet, and male apologists are not helping to fix it.
47
@Southvalley Fox
Yes. Remember the Equal Rights Amendment everybody? It's been almost 100 years since it was introduced.
From Wikipedia:
Equal Rights Amendment is a proposed amendment to the United States Constitution designed to guarantee equal legal rights for all American citizens regardless of sex. It seeks to end the legal distinctions between men and women in matters of divorce, property, employment, and other matters. The ERA was originally written by Alice Paul and Crystal Eastman, and was first introduced in Congress in December 1923.
18
As Ivan pointed out, below-thread:
"I have worked with elderly people who use walkers for many years, and I have not seen many people use a straight leg walker with such hunched over posture leaning on the walker and standing so far behind.... If Harvey can stand so far behind the walker hunched over like that, his abs and back are obviously strong enough to use a cane."
Thanks, Ivan, I've wondered about that myself.
16
And yet she isn't wrong. Even a righteous witch hunt remains a witch hunt. Is Weinstein a disgusting, abusive individual? Without a doubt. But that doesn't make his victims angels either, as many knew it was the price for a carreer and they paid the bill. Remember his behavior was known and they still chose to attend those meetings.
13
@arm19 wrote: "Remember his behavior was known and they still chose to attend those meetings."
Please clarify one thing for me.
Do you mean that "they were looking for it"
Or do you mean "they deserved it"
Curious about this.
6
@dannyboy
Would you put yourself in a meeting with a known sexual harrasser for a job? I wouldn't. As for did they deserve it? Nobody deserves to be treated or to endure such treatment. I do not know nor do i pretend to know what was in their mind. The only thing we do know is that Weinstein behavior was common knowledge in those circles. There is no excusing him. And hopefully he will get was is coming to him.
@arm19 wrote: " And hopefully he will get was is coming to him."
Yes, that will be justice.
2
This is a case of how money corrupts and distorts our legal system. Under what system is a guy with 100s of accusers and his lawyers even given such favorable press?!!!
2
After reading Jodi Kantor and Megan Twohey's book, She Said, its clear the amount of diligence, patience and thorough cross checking it took to get Weinstein to court. Those who assume that naming and shaming someone is equal to sending them straight to jail need to read that - or any good account of MeToo - and then see if their notions of this movement going too far still stack up. He's getting his day in court with several high priced lawyers on his team - save your sympathy for someone who deserves it.
11
#BelieveAllWomen became a part of the #MeToo movement because only 2% of rape claims are false. Only 2%! For millennia, women have been doubted, scorned and cast out as liars for speaking their truth about sexual assault. The courts have not delivered justice to them. Due process is important; so is justice.
12
Harvey Weinstein as Verbal Kint with that walker.
Play on, playah.
@Ingolf Stern, yep. I don’t believe the walker thing, either. The timing is way too convenient. Just a short time ago, in October, Weinstein attendees a comedy show in Manhattan (where he recognized, confronted and shamed). The confrontation garnered much press, but no mention was made of his using a walker at that time. And then suddenly, in the lead up to the trial, he is photographed entering court bent over a walker, wearing a poorly fitted suit (on a man who has always been notably vain about his attire). The tennis balls on the legs of the walker are a nice touch, don’t you think?
A juried trial is very much about stagecraft. I don’t blame his attorney for playing the game by the established rules, it it does make me gag a bit to see Weinstein playing that role.
1
Let's see the hands of women who find Harvey-the-cable-guy attractive.
2
Did Weinstein’s baggy, ill-fitting suit come with the walker in the Frail, Harmless Defendant Halloween costume kit?
10
@Octavia, I don’t believe any of the old man pose. From a WaPo article last week, in which the writer noted that the tennis balls on the walker were artfully soiled, prop department style:
“Weinstein had back surgery last month. It’s entirely possible that the walker was necessary to his recovery (before the surgery, critics noted that he used the walker for public court appearances, but appeared to walk unaided when privately shopping).
And, yes, tennis balls are common, helpful walker accessories. But there are other, more subdued options that also offer aid, such as coasters or glides, and if you were a multimillionaire on one of the most solemn, important days of your life, you might have sprung for a pair of those rather than a couple of Wilsons. If tennis balls worked best for you, you might have opted for a less ostentatious color than neon yellow — heck, you could probably get them custom-dyed to match your suit. At the very least, you might have popped open a fresh can.“
Speaking as someone who had to use a walker for a few months, I can tell you that Weinstein is using it wrong. He is hunching over too much because the walker is set too low (the legs are adjustable). I don’t know what part of his back was operated on, but that hunched walk is not beneficial for back injuries. It will make things worse.
The man is acting. The frumpy suit is a major tip off.
3
Ms. Rotunno is accused of being in it for the money: does anyone seriously believe the lawyers for the prosecution are in it for altruism, for that matter were Mr. Weinstein not a wealthy powerful man does anyone think for a minute any of the “ victims” would be lining up for their pot of gold, for that matter does anyone think for a minute that any of the “ victims” would be giving Mr. Weinstein the time of day much less having drinks and dinner or going to his hotel room were he not a rich man capable of doing them big favors, not a chance, it’s a quid pro quo world, there are no innocents in this sordid mess, there was a time when a jerk like Weinstein would have had his face slapped by a lady to thwart any advances, end of story, that’s when women were really powerful, of course that was also in a world when good sense prevailed not a world crawling with ambulance chasers and folks of all genders looking for a payoff from the courts for anything they can dream up. If actual rape was involved the victim should have gone immediately to the police and the perp should go immediately to jail, this entire metoo thing disrespects women in my opinion, portraying them as clueless little waifs incapable of fending for themselves: sorry I’ve known too many really powerful women, they would not lower themselves to the level of poor victim especially with a low life like Weinstein, they would have handed him his head in a basket, like right then and there.
5
@Ted You got me at " it’s a quid pro quo world, there are no innocents in this sordid mess".
This is a rape trial, but you're saying sometimes rape's OK?
You mean that rape is OK if the woman is no angel?
If rape is OK now. I missed that change.
2
I know this is irrelevant to what Weinstein has done. However, he deserves his day in court. But, in addition to the now unreasonable precautions in the workplace, #metoo has spilled over to college campuses and you should see what is happening to young men as an outgrowth. It is nothing less than a travesty. I am the Mom of a son who lived through this. Girls now interpret anything and everything as assault or sexual harassment. Grinding on the dance floor, complimenting a girl, not asking for permission to touch a girl in a particular spot in the throws of a consensual hookup, a drunken hookup where the boy is automatically at fault for not knowing how drunk the girl was. Revenge for a breakup etc. There's no grey areas, there's no proportionality. And the list goes on. Boys are expelled or suspended without due process so the schools can keep their funding. Colleges are being sued left and right and the young men are winning. There is a severe and dangerous backlash to #metoo that needs to be brought out in the open. Until you've lived it you can't believe it. #me too has swung way way too far. Read Emily Yoffe in The Atlantic for more insight.
16
Exactly my thoughts, having two boys in their teens. Forget about college, I am worried about them going to high school next year. #metoo has gone too far...you cannot accept one’s accusations without any kind of due process.
2
@Visitor Yes, it is bad in high school now too. The list of what boys can be accused of is beyond reasonable and devastating. Parents of boys have every right to be fearful. I lived it with my son, it was surreal to have my son accused of "forced vaginal penetration" for a sober consensual relationship when she simply didn't like how the relationship ended and falsely accused my son. He was fully exonerated because there was not a kernel of truth, except that my son could have ended things more sensitvely, but the legal bills and PTSD were steep. In the process I found a support and resource organization, Families Advocating for Campus Equality (FACE) that helps these young men and there are now thousands of families swept up in this. Yeah, I would keep the name of FACE handy. I hope more is written about this.
What's interesting here is how this points out the hypocrisy of Hollywood. He may have raped some women, for which he should be charged if true, but women also slept with him because they thought it would help their career, and never said a word until it became fashionable. Then they gleefully jumped into the fashionable virtue signaling of outrage. Hollywood is just so corrupt, from top to bottom, side to side - male and female, straight and gay, all of it. It's just a bunch of narcissists doing whatever they can to get ahead and there is zero moral compass. I know because I live there and have known many Hollywood people including celebrities over the years. The truest description I have ever heard about Hollywood people is Ricky Gervais's speech at the Golden Globes this year. If you haven't seen it, look it up on youtube. It addresses the ingrained hypocrisy of precisely these kinds of issues like Weinstein. Vile hypocrisy is actually the bigger problem that is at the core of every egregious action and reaction in Hollywood.
10
@SL
87 accusers.
1
Two things can be true at once... Harvey Weinstein can be a sexual assaulter (allegedly)..... AND.... MeToo can be toxic and damaging to both women and men.
15
Every time a see a picture of Weinstein with his sympathy prop walker, I want to scream.
6
@Sue He took lessons from the golden state killer who, before his trial, was underneath his car demonstrating lots of agility. Then he shows up a short time later in a wheel chair. It’s the oldest trick in book. Very theatrical.
3
i was assaulted by a drunk gay guy who was a college professor who didn't understand that no means no. does #metoo apply to that?
2
Yes
2
@bills and I was sexually harrassed by a gay woman 15 years ago and was told by HR not to pursue it any further because she was a 'protected class'. Talk about hypocrisy! And btw, the best, most encouraging bosses I've ever had have been white males. The worse, most vengeful and vindictive bosses I've ever had have been women.
3
@bills yes, why wouldn't it?
1
Best part of the article: Gloria Allred bemoaning bullies.
5
Donna Rotunno. Donna Rotunno
With briefcase gilt, and not a hint of guilt
For her, Weinstein had the perfect role
To point and to shame, and reroute the blame
And get poor Harvey out of his hole
No need to get on your knees, darling
You only have to sell your soul
3
Weinstein’s lawyer must be insane.
@Grandma Why? She's a criminal defense lawyer. This is a criminal case. Just because you don't like the defendant doesn't make Ms. Rotunno insane.
2
This story is so irresponsible.
Sure, all people are entitled to due process but all too frequently, even when the evidence is painfully obvious, guilty people go free (OJ Simpson, hello).
The overreaction to the movement isn't the problem. The problem is that people speak up and nothing happens except that people still call the accuser a slut, the guy gets promoted and women lose their jobs and reputations anyway.
You guys completely missed the boat with this.
If this lawyer were ugly, all the men who have used her services would have hired men, and nobody would have ever written this 'article'. I can't believe I wasted my 30 minute lunch read to hear about her Ferragamo shoes and what her parents do for a living.
4
In any criminal trial a conviction has little to do with the actual guilt of the defendant and everything to do with what can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
Not sure who said it, and this is an amped-up paraphrase:
There's a special place in hell for women who make loads of money by selling out other women.
Harvey Weinstein deserves a great defense -- his right under our justice system. But any woman with a shred of understanding about what women have slogged through for the past 5,000 or more years would not be his counsel.
She is a wretch.
2
Ms. Rotunno was a customer of mine at an Audi dealership back in the early 2010's. Incredibly down to earth and not a hint of pompousness. I think Weinstein is total scum, but she's the real deal.
5
@Michael C Time for a new car?
1
@Michael C So because she is nice in person that means she can't be doing unethical work in her profession?
1
And people wonder why defense attorneys are scum. Ms. Rotunno saw an open area of law populated by mainly wealthy clients and she's making the most of it. A half a million dollar retainer and 1200$ an hour fee can cover a lot of conscience. But I'm sure she's defending Weinstein purely on principle and not the seven figures that his case represents for her.
2
"Slut" is and was all Aman had to say to trash a woman's reputation, even still today. Now women can do the same thing and for the first time men face the fear woman have always felt. That said, women who understand from experience what it means to be on the business end of such accusations, women more than men can be trusted more than men. frankly. I don't care what Weinstein or his counsel think.
3
While I appreciate the biographical background story about Ms. Rotunno, I don't understand why adding details about which designer clothing she's wearing adds anything to the story or to her bona fides. When was the last time anyone read anything about a male attorney in an Ferragamo suit? So discouraging.
5
Due process does matter. Although past outrages are real, they cannot be used as a rush to judgement. We also must respect the limits of law in a system where justice is "blind" not empathic.
8
I certainly think there is merit to the fact that an accusation alone often causes massive damage to the accused, and as such is a powerful and incredibly dangerous aspect. I do not think there is anything at all wrong with wanting or needing to seek evidence. If there is a crime, it is no different than any other in a court of law. The crime itself is heinous, there is no question. However, we must also appreciate the dangers of believing without due process. I am strictly speaking on the main point, the tactics of the lawyer in question are an entirely different point I do not wish to comment on beyond the fact that both parties have the right to counsel, and both parties naturally have opposing agendas.
7
@RadoDrums this is really all that needs to be said.
An adversarial legal system like that in the US requires zealous representation to reach justice. Bravo to Attorney Rotunno for taking her job and calling seriously. Too many lawyers would walk away from this case.
11
@CL This is not a pro bono case. Attorney Rotunno is richly rewarded for her efforts, even if she loses. If she had not taken the case, there would have been plenty of other lawyers itching to do so for the paycheck.
10
@Michael Smith. Do you think the victim' s lawyers are doing that pro bono ?
1
@Michael Smith you really do not understand the concept of an adversarial legal system. Try reading some basic introductory books. They still print them.
There have been horrific accounts of Weinstein's high priced legal team and investigators harassing and intimidating his accusers into silence to cover up his crimes for many years. Ms. Rotunno may be new to this case and to Mr. Weinsteinb, but her approach to this trial should be put in perspective of how Mr. Weinstein and other powerful men have intimidated accusers until there are literally dozens of them and people wondering why more have not spoken up sooner.
18
Regardless of the demerits of her client, Donna Rotunno is a courageous woman and defense attorney able to call the “MeToo” movement dangerous. She is accurate and credibility is her profession. Agendas, when politicized invariably select the ends as justifying the means. This subverts truth when it conflicts with mission. “MeToo” is no longer about individuals but gender relations and no longer resides in the court of law and fairness, but instead in the court of public opinion.
14
@Grant wrote: "She is accurate and credibility is her profession."
So you believe her when she says: “It’s sad,” she said, “that men have to worry about being complimentary and pleasant to women.”?
Or is it more the case that men CAN be complimentary and pleasant to women. It's just that women object to sexual harassment and raping.
2
@Grant
Amen.
As a man who has been falsely accused, I’ve seen due process sacrificed to mob opinion.
Mob opinion is still mob opinion regardless of whether the mob is liberal or conservative
2
Now the prosecution will have to prove its case. It will be an interesting trial. This defense attorney is no pushover.
9
@W. Lynch I expect that Ms Rotunno has a very weak defence against the charges.
That is the reason that she is trying to make the trial about #MeToo. Working this in the press shows desperation.
2
“Having voluntary sex with someone even if it is a begrudging act is not a crime after the fact.”
no, but rape is, and hearing testimony of both begrudge and rape are two entirely different arguments. The first is abominable and the second is criminal. Does she see the difference? or will her cross examination allow all to fall in the abominable, not a crime?
16
I get that those who have been harmed by predators want to see harm come to the guilty.
I understand that feminism means equal pay for equal work and equal opportunity.
So is a male lawyer the only lawyer who can take a big fat fee from a rich fat cat to defend the fat cat for a crime he is accused of committing against a woman?
Or, does feminism require female lawyers being allowed to take their share of fat fees from fat cats too?
Additionally, has this country failed to understand that freedom requires allowing conflicting values to coexist, that we cannot negate or silence another because we do not believe in their values? Has our country’s intolerance turned us into the new Taliban of political correctness.
Our Constitution, the Fifth, Sixth, and Fourteenth Amendments requires the government to prove guilt of an accused beyond a reasonable doubt and to permit the accused to CHOOSE his counsel of choice to EFFECTIVELY represent the accused.
I hope feminist do not insist upon the proposition that an accused cannot choose a female lawyer or posit that should a female lawyer do so, she withhold her full talents to effectively and zealously represent her client.
Moreover, if a female lawyer zealously represents her client, society is better off if there is a conviction, for there will be no grounds for reversal on appeal based upon ineffective assistance of counsel
15
@Ben Uh, no one is arguing that Weinstein cannot have competent counsel of any gender. We are questioning the overall relevance of criticism of #metoo by a well-paid lawyer for Weinstein who RAPED women and is busy getting all the due process and the fairest trial money can buy.
Unclear how trying to censor speech by women generally by decrying #metoo has any effect on Weinstein's trial.
Women have a right to speak out. This rapist gets a fair trial.
1
@KKW I reread the article. My understanding is that Ms. Rotunno is opposed to a pre-determined belief in guilt once an accusation has been made by a woman, against a man, for sexual assault\harassment. I did not understand her to want to censor a person who holds those views. If in fact she is calling for censorship, I would agree any censorship is wrong. I did not see Ms. Rotunno saying that #metoo supporters cannot speak, however.
Years ago, there was an automatic belief that children were incapable of lying about sexual abuse. Interestingly enough, women researchers were the ones who debunked such theory and found children were susceptible to having false memories. One of these notable researchers was Elizabeth Loftus.
I see Ms. Rotunno’s comments as her obligation to convey to a potential jury not to prejudge guilt.
1
The problem with Donna Rotunno's view is that the opinion of a lawyer has no value. Not all lawyers are corrupt but there are so many that lie for pay that the group cannot be trusted. The is the result of people like Weinstein, Trump, Epstein, Barr, and Giulliani. Where is the American Bar Association? The one attorney that can hold his head high and say "I told the truth" is Michael Cohen. And he is in prison
6
I don’t care who defends that creep, as long as he goes to prison for the long haul. He’s a predator. That said, Rotunno is one of those women who is not for other women. She’s for men, and has made a career defending slime who attack women. It always worse when your own gender turns on you, distorting the truth. But no one who turned a blind eye to Weinstein knowing what he was doing for years gets a pass. They may not be accomplices, but they are not heroes either. Call it whatever you like, a movement, a paradigm shift, about flipping time, but finally doing something about these creeps that prey on women using their power as a weapon is a good thing. And please stop saying the young women knew what they were getting into, that’s insulting. Did Shirley Temple know when she was approached for sexual favors by the head of the studio back then? No, she did not; she told her mother and quit the business. That should not be the only option because some men are predators. Thank goodness it’s all out in the open now. How many women had to suffer in silence being prey to these poor excuses for real men? Too many.
7
It seems to me that Weinstein’s real crime here is being ugly. If he was a good looking man and coerced these women using his power to hire or not, I seriously doubt he would be in this situation. Can you imagine Brad Pitt being charged with using his money and power to have sex with beautiful actresses? Even if some of them didn’t really want to, there would never be any charges.
8
I hope you don’t have daughters! Setting the bar very high. And for the record Matt Lauer is an example of a charming man who also did bad things. Why is it so hard for men to understand that women want and deserve respect and their bodies are no exception.
5
@Tim Phillips R. Kelly is considered good looking, and also faces multiple charges.
3
@Tim Phillips wrote: "It seems to me that Weinstein’s real crime here is being ugly."
No he is being tried for rape.
Big difference.
6
The one fundamental rights of being presumed innocent until proven guilty..for the accused. What about the fundamental right to speak up as a solution to the untold suffering and life long trauma for the victim? Dont forget, the right to bieng preusmed innocent is a legal construct. That is not t say it is not important. That is why lawyers are there to do the job. But if you silence the victim, the odds are stacked against the victim, and the #metoo movement encourages victims to come forward, isnt that whta is the case. Weinstein will still get the benefit of rigor of the process of our legal process. You cant complain about the meetoo movement. It is fair and powerful, and drawing victims out from the woodwork so that predators no longer hae a place to hide.
8
I wonder what her husband thinks if she has one.
The last paragraph in this article is really the nub of truth.
1
Yeah, on second thought, he probably didn't do it. Why believe dozens of powerless women when you can believe one powerful man who currently appears quite pathetic?
8
Thank you Ms. Rotunno.
5
I’d love to hear her opinion on the catch and kill/NDA movement that I’m going to guess she has participated in for at least some of her career. Due process only really matters in court and she was literally speaking in a court room defending her client which seems an awful lot like it is part of due process. I’m not saying it is a good thing that an accusation can permanently alter someone’s life, but the scales of justice are pretty well stacked against the most common type of victim here and that doesn’t tend the best the one accused of predatory behavior.
3
@Tyler Bithell
"Due process only really matters in court and she was literally speaking in a court room defending her client which seems an awful lot like it is part of due process."
That's because it is due process. For Ms. Rotunno to claim that Mr. Weinstein is being "stripped" of "fundamental rights" is hyperbolic and irresponsible. I hope the NY Bar Association is paying attention.
4
Is Mr. Rotunno sure she wants to complain about Due Process when she's the one responsible for his defense–the very thing that ensures that due process is followed? Surely she is not questioning her own qualifications to be in this court room.
Why the doubt? I mean, there isn't a single soul on earth (with exception to his own, very expensive defense attorney it seems) that hasn't considered that one of the wealthiest and most powerful Hollywood moguls would spend enormous sums of money, resources and favors to be able to beat these charges, and that he would probably succeed.
Public opinion aside... the odds for this man (who, let us not forget, admitted to his malfeasance on day-one) are very much in his favor.
6
Everybody gets their day in court. I only wish the courts were more equal, to rich and poor alike, in the way they deliver their justice. But everyone deserves to present a defense, however unpopular.
11
With you on that.
I am a women who worked 35 years in a male dominated field. I always felt that if I worked hard, kept my head down, never cried discrimination, tried to fit in I would slowly climb the corporate ladder. Sadly this did not happen for me. I was sexually harassed a few times but it never occurred to me to report it to HR thinking it would only make my work day worse when it got out to my coworkers. I am conflicted when I read about Ms. Rotunno, part of me says she is doing her job and part of me thinks she is selling her soul for money. Is it her responsibility to refuse the work? I don't think so, someone else would do it if she didn't. As i have retired from my career a few years ago I can only hope that lawsuits like this allows women entering the workforce a little safer. If it makes one man think twice before saying or doing something inappropriate i think it will be worth it.
17
LMD you nailed it. The tectonic cultural shift brought about by MeToo means men can no longer operate as if using their power in the workplace to sexually assault/harass is just business as usual. Hats off to this younger generation who decided they don’t have to take it any more. Wish mine didn’t have to.
“We can’t have movements that strip us of our fundamental rights.”
We can't have men who conspire to strip women of their fundamental rights.
27
Rape is a violent crime committed against someone's will. It leaves lasting psychological damage. The Me, Too movement precipitated women talking about the incidents in their lives. And believe you me, I did not talk to one good friend who had not had more than one incident of sexual aggression, that left them frightened. A few had been raped. And I'm talking PWL (Privileged White Ladies), one of which I most certainly am. The abuse of women and children, both boys and girls, is wide spread throughout the world. A criminal lawyer who is a woman who specializes in defending men accused of sexual crimes. is after one thing, and one thing only. Money. She should be ashamed of herself. I say this as one woman to another.
19
@Grace Clark Justice, and freedom, depends on lawyers defending despised clients. John Adams defended British soldiers accused of massacring Boston citizens. Brave lawyers defended Charles Manson and the Rosenbergs. And there is, of course, the fictional example of Atticus Finch and many more. Every lawyer that defends a pariah is an American hero and strengthens liberty for all. Lumping them in with their clients, as Trump does, is un-American to the core.
2
It’s so sad to read these comments that whine about #metoo and that whine about the non-existent slippery slope of #metoo
You really care about fair justice? All of sudden you are like an editor of some law journal? You sight silent as literally millions of women are raped and receive zero justice. But for some reason this trial compels you to stop what are doing and comment about the dumb worry whether Weinstein will get a fair trial? Or that one day you or your drip of a son will get falsely accused? Are you kidding?
If you are scared about #metoo, sounds like you should be. If you can’t figure out how to deal with women in a relationship or at work in this new era than you are not working hard enough to figure it out. The onus is on you, not women.
It’s pathetic - really pathetic that these comments come after every story about this monster.
33
@Gotta Read Wonderful comment, thank you!!!!
4
@Gotta Read Yes!
2
So are we supposed to feel for "poor" Weinstein showing up for his court appearing with a walker? And before that, the convicted felon Paul Manafort appearing for his sentencing in Virginia in a wheelchair. Oh pul-leeze! Give me a break, you pathetic fakers! Will we see Roger Stone show up for his sentencing with crutches???
19
@Jan N , exactly. Weinstein, Manafort and Stone have the financial resources and connections to learn how to present themselves as sympathetic characters in court.
I would level the legal playing field by stipulating that these men be represented by public defenders, like many other Americans.
3
@sanderling1 And so, in one comment, you both demean public defenders and advocate denying people an adequate defense against the power of the government by requiring them to to use what you (wrongly) suppose to be inadequate lawyers.
5
Justice without a vigorous, competent defense is no justice. You don't have to like Ms. Rotunno or the job she is doing, but in many ways her role is more important than any role on the prosecution's side.
11
She's right. Anyone who "believes all women" is, by definition, denying due process to all accused. It's not about Me Too. It's about Justice First.
16
@Chris Interesting comment since historically no one has believed women and blamed rape on them, not the man, because men just can't be counted on to control their rampant sexual desires.
12
@Jennifer Right...remember the case in which the woman asked her rapist to wear a condom first, so that she wouldn't, you know, catch a disease or get pregnant as well as raped, and that was deemed "consent"? ??? Not that long ago.
3
@Chris The victim is usually the one who carries the burden.
4
What destroys this whole issue is when individuals file a false claim which has happened and been reported. When matters like this occur there is no consequence for those who have misled the courts. This then taints any future allegations on future victims as they are under a cloud of suspicion seen as jthe spurned female. If the courts are truly serious in ensuring that victims of sexual assault are treated fairly then do not allow false claims to go unpunished, if you are serious then get serious. The consequences of being charged of this crime will impact a person's life forever, it therefore must be treated with the gravity it deserves. This is not to be treated as a lottery where victims are paid off, this is a matter that affects peoples lives permanently.
7
@Susan
Absolutely- in my case the false accusations were of abuse from my then wife during a divorce.
At the time there was no proof just “She Said” which was more than enough to give her custody of the kids, the house, my dog, my toothbrush, etc.
When she publicly admitted 10 years later that there was no abuse on my part, it was 10 years too late.
And no consequences for her.
In my experience, false accusations are common.
Anyone who denies that there are false accusations without consequences is living in a dream.
6
@Mark Shumate
"In my experience, false accusations are common." Your experience is just that, your experience.
It's like the people who worry about voter fraud, when really the actual evidence suggests actual cases of voter fraud are very few in number and the real problem in this country is voter suppression.
7
@Mark Shumate
False accusations are "common" in your experience? So multiple women have falsely accused you?
1
She's just trying to do some public relations on her client's behalf, a starkly Sisyphean task at this point considering the ritualized flogging the defendant has received in the press for several years running that rather casually took his guilt as a foregone conclusion.
1
Harvey Weinstein allegedly sexually harassed dozens of women during his long career. Same with Epstein, and no doubt many others. They all hired lawyers to make these women go away, often signing contracts that keep the women silent with a payoff.
So where were the attorneys during all this? If I had a client that I had to draft such an agreement and he pays a big sum, I would counsel him that this is something he better get a handle on so he doesn't have to go through it again.
If I had to draft a third or fourth agreement, I would start to get angry with my client. I would tell him in no uncertain terms that if he keeps this up, it WILL get out and it WILL harm him and his career, probably permanently.
If I had to draft up 10 or 20 of these, I would say, find another lawyer, because you refuse to take my advice, you refuse to seek counseling, and you are going to drag us all down when this comes out.
But NONE of the lawyers ever did this for any of these guys. they just happily took the fees and drafted iron clad agreements.
There is something terribly wrong when an attorney keeps a client like this. At some point, the lawyer knows that the client is breaking the law, and he or she has a duty to either withdraw or notify the court that the client is abusing the legal system. Something.
There is something terribly rotten in our legal establishment and our ethics that allows this to happen. The legal establishment fails to uphold the law.
16
With you on that.
2
Until you've lost a job simply for knowing a man who committed a minor flirtation offence, or seen an innocent male friend or family member snared in the drag net and ruined by an online mob, or lost someone to suicide as a result of soul crushing accusations, do not presume from your lofty moral position that #MeToo is the great cleansing movement of our time. To accept that the traumatizing collateral damage of this thing is "worth it" is as bad as siding with someone who has truly committed sexual assault.
Until it can actually be shown that women are more safe now and being given unimpeded employment in the fields they aspire to rather than being passed over because they are now perceived as too weaponized and dangerous to hire, do not condemn the work of people like Donna Rotunno who is, at least, looking for a return to the practice of due process.
14
Good thing she’s not a Harvard law professor. If she were, she would be dismissed by the administration for venturing to have an independent perspective.
3
#MeToo is not a movement. It's an attempt to shift the societal paradigm that we've all seen as "normal" for millennia.
11
Why don't corporations issue rules for employee travel that prohibit them from having visitors to their hotel rooms? Against drinking alcohol at any sort of business meal or in their offices? Prohibiting any married employee from having sex with any other employee, vendor or customer? Why don't corporations have formal dress codes? Why don't corporations simply close their offices at 7 pm and eliminate working late together?
1
@Kay Sieverding why don't men just stop raping and sexually harassing women?
12
@Kay Sieverding Try Saudi Arabia.
3
She has a point.
3
@David Jacobson Yeah she wants to make the big bucks.
1
“Having voluntary sex with someone even if it is a begrudging act is not a crime after the fact.”
Let's edit that to “Being coerced into sex with someone even if it is under threat of loss of career and fear of safety is not a crime after the fact” and see how ridiculous that sounds. I can't even accept that she's calling it voluntary sex, as a survivor. It depends on the law of the state, whether coerced sex is legally rape, but let me assure you, they did not voluntarily have sex with that man.
It's true that I feel a lot of shame for not physically fighting against the man who raped me. I didn't feel like I had the power to do it. But laying there like a dead fish, crying, being penetrated over and over again by someone in a situation I didn't feel like I could get out of wasn't voluntary sex, even if I couldn't prove it was rape in court.
11
@Debra what you've gone through is rape. You volunteered out of fear.
@Mickela She didn't volunteer anything at all. She did what she could to survive an attack. Big difference.
2
The so called #Mee2 movement trivializes real harassment and sexual violence that women face. This is a Hollywood and Madison Avenue manufactured grievance score settling mechanism foisted by and for affluent white women. No real changes to the real concerns and challenges faced by women. This is identity politics that leads to relational nihilism between men and women.
5
Cry me a river for Harvey Weinstein and Donna Rotunno.
6
Of course any social movement harnessed for the wrong reasons is dangerous but saying this applies to Harvey Weinstein flat out hilarious and disingenuous. She has to live in her own skin and Harvey will die in prison where he belongs.
3
I'm just wondering about the other members of the defense team, all of the men. Did you not profile them because what they're doing is what men have always done. If so, I can't read this as anything but an attempt to shame Ms. Rotunno because women shouldn't behave like this.
Nonsense. If you're going to shame her, shame all of her male colleagues as well. Otherwise, as enlightening as it is, it's misogynist as well.
9
To the author: I would like to know why you mentioned Ms. Rotunno’s clothing, especially that she wore Salvatore Ferragamo and Jimmy Choo. Was that her idea or yours? And how is that germaine to your story?
11
Listen to the Catch and Kill podcast for actual truth telling about this animal!
2
there is so much cross over here between real life and what we think real life is from watching movies. it's like nobody knows that the Wild West is actually something that we can't experience because we weren't there! all we know is what we see in the movies. so if guys are feeling oppressed by the me-too movement, my tendency is to say well get over it. I don't think that's helpful though-- what I think is helpful is to have discussions, dialogues, conversations. and above all acknowledgement that men have been in power since lysistrata was written. time to tip the scales.
3
We are seeing the results (in numerous ways) of our educational system having abandoned Civics as an essential part of the curriculum.
4
Enough with the walker. A doctor would have given him one that fit his stature.
12
So many worried that they might be falsely accused even though the statistics show that it is very rare, no doubt in part due to the wrathful consequences that befall a woman who falsely accuses a man.
What I don't see from most of them is the same, or even some, level of concern for the hundreds of thousands who suffer actual real rape every year.
Your hypothetical seems to outweigh the reality of what is actually happening in both quantity and orders of magnitude.
There should be no false accusations, but there should be no rapes either. Maybe if we paid more attention to what is actually happening what might happen will take care of itself.
9
My father was an attorney. Years ago he talked both me and my younger sister out of pursuing law school. I never really thanked him for that.
7
Regardless of her comments regarding MeToo, Ms. Rotunno is probably an excellent attorney.
She is doing the job she was hired for by using all and any means at her disposal to accomplish a victory for her client.
Realistically and objectively, that’s what lawyers do.
Privately, Ms. Rotunno may actually embrace a very different and decidedly supportive viewpoint about the MeToo movement, but her success as a defense attorney precludes any self- indulgent personal feelings that stand in the way of achieving her professional goals.
She’s a consummate professional.
9
"Her client, she said, was “the follower". She put the teenage girl through a brutal cross-examination, because “her story was not great. “Tell her I had a job to do. I don’t want this to define what happens to her." Rape is rape. It doesn't matter is you go first or second or if someone else encourages you to do it, it is still rape. To brutally attack a 15 year old girl on the stand who has already been traumatized by being raped is appalling. Then to have the gall to tell the girl it was just her job and she hopes it doesn't hurt the girl flies in the face of all psychological knowledge. That girl was damaged not only by the men who attacked her but also by the woman who then did so. Compassion does not seem to be part of her skill set.
13
I think its very telling that there's a disdain for a strong female defense attorney that would not exist if the defense attorney was male.
9
What I always find interesting is that many of the same people who cry about "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" are same people who still chant "lock her up!"
20
I’m disappointed in the general tenor of discussion, here in comments. But not surprised. This is a subject that brings out the worst in people.
It makes me wish I were on the jury panel for this trial.
6
I am glad a woman, no less, is pointing out the deleterious effects of MeToo, apparent from the beginning as a kind of hysteria (with emphasis upon the etymological origins of that word). In the most interesting way, MT conflated aeons of female subjugation & actual rape, with the usual, ordinary, eternal hanky-panky that goes on between the sexes (underlining the obvious resonance of that last word). Hence the quality of ‘assassination’, & the immediate & permanent condemnation of the accused, with due process or the ability to clarify details perilously ineffective.
6
@desertgirl
I concur, etymologically speaking.
1
Conservative estimates indicate there are 200,000–400,000 untested rape kits in U.S. There's your proof and evidence. Stop grandstanding to gain fame at the expense of those who have truly been injured.
8
Maybe when a trial involves a celebrity, the judge should impose a gag order on all participants. A prosecutor has absolutely no business labeling an accused individual a "sexual predator."
2
As near as I can tell, Weinstein's legal rights are all intact. I'm not sure we can say the same thing about some of his victims who have been bullied and bludgeoned with the full force of Weinstein's considerable ill-gotten wealth and rotund influence.
12
This lawyer is not interesting. She’s just a lawyer representing a despicable client and getting paid to do it.
10
@Dan B
And despicable by association, the fact that she's just "doing her job" notwithstanding.
@Dan B Lawyers who represent "despicable" clients are the very foundation of our liberty. The ultimate example is John Adams defending British soldiers accused of massacring Boston citizens. If we make it easy to put "despicable" people in jail, we make it easy to put you and me in jail. Only those ignorant of American history, like Trump, lump lawyers in with their clients. Read "To Catch a Mockingbird."
1
'Gloria Allred, a lawyer who represents two of Mr. Weinstein’s accusers, disagreed. “A bully is a bully, regardless of their gender,” Ms. Allred said. '
This applies to you too Allred, as well as to the most prominent members of 'MeToo'.
Disclaimer - not in love with Weinstein by any means but protesting his 'guilty' verdict well before any trial.
4
The MeToo movement has given jilted lovers and avenue for revenge, stripping the accused of their rights. Women and men have every right to file charges against rapists. MeToo outside the courts will probably dampen the flirtatious part of human experience in America, a tragic regression to our Puritan past. I was a teacher and saw this trend over the last 30 years where teachers now fear hugging students. The #MeToo movement can be extremely dangerous, as we saw when right wing trolls set up Al Frankin over the photo of a gag.
8
Interesting how the picture shows the Great and Powerful Oz, Mr. Weinstein, out in public wearing a suit that is too big and using a walker . Changing the public image to that of a tired and shrunken old man, perhaps? How could this old man be capable of rape?
9
I thought the same thing. The walker is a joke - any physician or physical therapist worth a cent would fit the walker to him properly and counsel him that shuffling along in that hunched over posture is probably the worst thing one could do after back surgery. And with all that money, he couldn’t buy a better suit? Appearances matter and this guy’s affect is clearly designed to make him appear more sympathetic.
7
@Chris
I've thought that exact same thing since he first appeared with a walker.
Just a stunt. His poorly-working legs and hips are NOT the problem.
5
I’d say leave the lawyers out of this: they have roles to play, and in order for the system to work, they need to play them well. However, it may be that the lawyers welcome the press coverage, for themselves and for their clients. Where I am, newspapers almost never (in my recollection) report much on the lawyers (sometimes, they’re not even named) — only on the arguments they make in court and the generally brief statements they may make to the press on the courtroom steps.
1
Remember the OJ trial? The media turned those attorney’s into veritable rock stars. It was pretty disgusting, actually.
5
No graduate student or researcher will ever propose a study of how many sexual harrassment charges are thrown out of court even before the trial. The NYT will never write an article about it how many of these cases are settled out of court because most accused men cannot afford to pay for a lawyer and even if they can, their legal advisor will recommend against it.
Even if someone wanted to do the research, Victim-protection laws make it very difficult to collect the data.
So many people seem to think it's ok if "a few cases" where someone is unjustly accused result in the destruction of a career, the end of a marriage, etc. That is not how the justice system in our country is supposed to work. If even one person is falsely accused but charged as guilty in the court of public opinion, our system is broken.
5
@Paul wrote: " If even one person is falsely accused but charged as guilty in the court of public opinion, our system is broken."
Wait a minute. I can't have opinions? Is thinking OK?
How about if I just agree with you? That OK.
2
I'm torn about this issue.
On one hand, I do think that the presumption of innocence is very important to the judiciary process. Weakening it, no matter how just the reason, could have some dire unforeseen consequences. When presumption of innocence is put in jeopardy, the weakest and most marginalized member of our society will often pay the price.
On the other hand I also recognize that putting sexual assault victims through emotionally violent interrogations is one of the main reasons so many of them fail to report their assault in the first place. And why even among those who did a significant number of them feel like it was not worth going through the effort.
It is a truly hard problem. It doesn't help that some feminists try to minimize how much the presumptions of innocence is important while on the other, people like Ms Rotunno make light of the terrible ordeal these trial can represent for the alleged victim.
6
“We can’t have movements that strip us of our fundamental rights”
Of course you can. Innocent until proven guilty went out a long, long time ago
3
It sounds as if Rotunno has spent her entire life scheming and calculating. She definitely makes a great defense attorney.
11
@Joseph, and how do you reach that conclusion, exactly? She is a schemer because she is as successful attorney? Oh, wait...a successful, female attorney? Spare me your misogyny.
The woman attended a college so minor that it was not named in the article. She graduated from a law school that sits low in the rankings. Yet she made a successful career for herself, by herself, through grit and talent. This is not an attorney who sailed along on her heritage or her gold plated degrees.
Your comment is a perfect example of what women face every day, in the workplace. If they are as aggressive as men, they are suspect. How dare she.
12
I enjoyed learning about the background of Weinstein's lead attorney from this piece, but I would have preferred a more balanced portrait of Ms. Rotunno. #MeToo has no place in this article, least of all in the first few paragraphs. It's a little too facile for my taste to slap on that hashtag to any and every instance of sexual assault/misconduct. Such an editorial choice comes off as lazy; after all, it's really just a hashtag on twitter, like so many others and lacks specificity. This is an important case, and the broad brushes of #MeToo and #BelieveAllWomen only muddy the waters.
9
My biggest problem with the defense’s concern about presumption of innocence here is that the presumption of truthfulness on the part of women who come forward has never been part of the equation. These are real people who come forward, likely to recount a horrendous experience that haunts them in the middle of the night and in the middle of the day, and for too long, the public has been allowed to assume they are liars, all for the sake of sparing men like Weinstein or our President. Enough.
21
She will never be without work.
8
Have NY Times readers forgotten about Ronald Sullivan, the Harvard Law Professor and Dean that was forced to step down as Dean because he accepted an offer to be on Harvey Weinstein's defense team?
This is intolerable in a society which is obligated by the Constitution to provide a fair trial to those accused of a crime.
The Me Too movement has indeed gone way too far.
If you doubt this, you should read the book Guilt by Accusation by Alan Dershowitz.
Dershowitz was accused by Virginia Giuffre, a "sex slave" of Jeffrey Epstein, of abuse, including having sex with her multiple times. But she made such accusations in the context of a court suit that prevented Dershowitz from asuing for defamation because of "litigation privilege." (Read the book to find out what this is.)
Recognizing that such tactics could be abused, Dershowitz took the unusual tack of arguing his defense in book form. The book quotes from a manuscript that Giuffre wrote (available online) which makes several accusations against famous men.
But Dershowitz also constructs a timeline of events, which seems to show that many of the statements in the manuscript are false. For example she claims to have had a birthday party at age 16 with Epstein when she met him first when she was 17.
If Dershowitz is right, Giuffre is unreliable as a witness.
Yet this same Virginia Giuffre has claimed to have had sex with Prince Andrew, which has caused a scandal, quite likely based on a false claim of abuse.
6
“Having voluntary sex with someone even if it is a begrudging act is not a crime after the fact.”
It is if they are being coerced illegally.
8
For the defendant’s sake: let him hope there are no women on the jury to hear her argument.
I don’t understand the meaning of being illegally coerced, unless you’re talking about using weapons to threaten them. Threatening them with their jobs isn’t illegal, people are threatened with their jobs everyday in a variety of ways and it’s not illegal in the United States. I’m sure that most prostitutes aren’t doing it for fun, but that’s not considered sexual assault, although it’s still a crime here.
3
@Tim Phillips prostitutes are doing it for money, that is different than being threatened, and being threatened is not legal in the work place.
1
What possible defense could Weinstein put forward that would not incur the wrath of #MeToo movement? Is it the case that the only "acceptable" defense attorney he could employ would have to be a male, or a weakly committed female? #MeToo should welcome a strong defense of Weinstein. Defeating a strong defense would vindicate their cause far more than trampling over a weak one.
3
A very persuasive argument for a very big—very horrible— very awful—very-very astronomically-fat fee:
“If I get you off, you’ll be so relieved you won’t care. If you don’t, where you’re going, you won’t need it.”
So all these women are "playing victim" and none of this is true? Are you just kidding me. A terrible conspiracty against Harvey? Seriously. He admitted to it! He threatened women for decades and anyone who threatened to oust him. This is really rich.
12
Nailed it.
“You can’t just have it both ways and say, ‘I should be able to do whatever I want without consequences. I should put myself in any situation I want and play victim,’” Ms. Rotunno said. “Having voluntary sex with someone even if it is a begrudging act is not a crime after the fact.”
8
@Steady Gaze Yes, "Ms. Rotunno said. 'Having voluntary sex with someone even if it is a begrudging act is not a crime after the fact.'"
But that is not what Harvey Weinstein is on trial for. But you just repeat Ms. Rotondo, so it must be that is what Weinstein is on trial for, and not rape.
1
It is a lawyer's duty to defend his/her client, but at what cost? Rotunno seems to have sold her soul and all ethical underpinnings for the almighty dollar, and ALL women should resent this.
11
This whole story seems like a straw man set up, the hook being that MeToo denies the accused their day in court. Cosby got his day in court. Weinstein is getting his day in court. I can’t think of an example where MeToo denied the accused a fair trial.
7
498a.org
Take a look at that website to see initially well intentioned laws run amok.
If you are a man who got married in india and are just accused by your wife of "asking " for dowry(money) , the man, and his parents will be immediately jailed without any proof whatsoever. It is a known fact that 1000s of women are exploiting the law to settle personal scores even when no such thing actually happened. Everybody knows this is happening but the corrupt police and legal system don't want to stop it sincw they can all cash in by taking bribes
2
@Jeremy Coney Wait a second.
Are you saying that these accusers are exploiting the law AND the police and legal system are being bribed?
Hold the presses!
1
How about a more accurate subhead that says that she has faced criticism--not just by "feminists"?
7
"That has earned her the scorn of some women’s rights advocates, who have suggested she may be motivated as much by the recognition and future work the case will bring her as by her legal principles."
There is no lawyer in America more motivated by her own personal fame and fortune than Gloria Allred. But I'll bet there's no scorn for her, is there?
7
Yeah, lawyers will do anything for money.
7
If Weinstein thinks having a female attorney and a walker will influence a reasonable jury, he's in dreamland. Defense attorneys are necessary; however, in high-profile cases, $$$ talks.
4
Her fee? One surmses it is 30 pieces of silver.
11
This is what feminism is: the acknowledgement that women are allowed to be as right, and allowed to be as wrong, as men.
That man is entitled to counsel; that woman is happy to represent him and happy to be paid well to do so.
He detests women. So does she.
He is a terrible human being, and he has found another terrible human being to throw as much dust and mud in the air as she can, in the adversarial and show-boating style that is the American justice system.
Stick with the program. Stick with the facts. Remind yourself that the theatre has begun, and entrance of the villain is tinted with that old stand-by prop, the walker. He is in very bad shape, indeed, to lead with the mobility aid AND the female, merciless, and apparently morally-challenged lawyer. He’s already spent millions trying to intimidate those he abused. Let him spend more. Let her take it.
Let them lose.
11
The only way to get credible criminal convictions and sentences is to get them despite the best possible defense. Rotunno is _enabling_ us to jail true offenders with proper confidence. She is doing an essential job. Does it matter why she picked it?
3
That photo says it all for me. Weinstein with his "oh, I'm just a poor man, not powerful, just weak and crippled and beset by women" walker. This man loved the rough and tumble of star-making. He thrived on power and money, and had lots of energy to run around boasting about the power of his influence. Pushback is rough on a guy, I guess.
And he's got a woman in front of him to defend his poor self. Why? He's paying a woman lawyer to defend him from women, because it would look really really bad for a man to call #MeToo 'dangerous'. If this pathetic act fools anyone, it will be the reality TV crowd.
14
The only way to get credible criminal convictions and sentences is to get them despite the best possible defense. Rotunno is _enabling_ us to jail true offenders with proper confidence. She is doing an essential job. Does it matter why she picked it?
2
Glad I'm not a lawyer. Must be horrible to be defending certain persons just for the sake of getting some money from these certain persons. For the rest it is clear that the weinstein figure only wanted a female lawyer. And to finish, his sad walk with that walker prop will not win him any Oscar of Golden Globe. Too bad a performance.
6
Ms Rotunno looks very tough, while Harvey Weinstein appears terribly sickly. Are they role-playing??
3
Dangerously misleading headline. Ms. Rotunno did not, as the headline claims, say she "thinks #MeToo is 'Dangerous.'" What she said, according to the article, was “What happens with #BelieveAllWomen is that we’re just supposed to believe you without any pushback, or questioning, or cross-examination. I think that’s dangerous.” The headline represents an important misrepresentation of Rotunno's position and is, I submit, another example why so many are so confused and conflicted about questions of justice, fairness and the MeToo movement in general. The NYT equating the MeToo movement with 'believe all women,' is like the NYT saying all liberals are pro-abortion, or all conservatives are pro-death penalty. The paper of record should be more careful, and its headlines should reflect the nuance and rationality of its articles.
7
@Steve Friedman
"#BelieveAllWomen" is in the most glaringly obvious way a misdirecting slogan: intended to mislead, to pre-empt an argument by deliberately warping its premise.
Men also get raped.
By inference, #B.A.W. validates the prejudices of those people who don't know anyone who has been raped (because someone who has, and is unafraid of talking about it, can help enlighten those who simply lack experience with this painful subject).
I remember when Mike Tyson was first accused of rape. (He was subsequently convicted.) His defenders were quick to blame the victim, a teenager. "She should have known," was the argument, i.e. accepting an invitation to go up to T's hotel room meant she understood he was going to sexually assault her & was consenting simply by going with him.
Similarly, in HW's case, it is claimed anyone who showed up to audition "had to have known about the casting couch."
That is completely absurd. If there is no sign on the door: "The Director Expects Sexual Acts to Take Place," or no advance communication from the office saying, "Visiting our offices may make you subject to sexual advances; only visit us if you are willing to consent to sexual activity" -- or words to that effect -- there is no reason for anyone to imagine that Sex is going to be required.
Why do so many people live with the cynical, debased notion that if a woman expects to be paid for work, that work necessarily must include consent to any transactional sexual interactions?
2
I watched Rotunno give an interview on FOX, and she said that contrary to all the scathing media reports, all of Weinstein's relationships were consensual. What happened was that he dangled job opportunities in front of the accusers, similar to quid-pro-quo or prostitution. That arrangement may be illegal or unethical but it's not rape.
3
I have an abusive boss. What a jerk. But I show up to work, I keep going back. I guess I'm using and using and using my poor jerk boss for a pay check. The argument's logical, but wrong. My boss didn't rape me!
2
In the midst of our 24-hour news cycle we forget so much that is relevant to what is being "reported" here. Read Ronan Farrow's investigative work, most especially last fall, and remember that Weinstein went to extraordinary and illegal lengths to suppress the stories of his accusers and those who would report them. At every turn, he used not a court of law to defend himself but surveillance, smear tactics, endless cash, and brute intimidation. And now he is being brought to trial by two women, instead of eighty, because he has bought them off. (Read the Times reporting on that.). To shamble into court playing victim should be the ultimate outrage. His lawyer, of course, has the right to spin this any way she likes, but let's not forget the superb reporting that has exposed the facts of Weinstein's behavior.
10
As women who lived long before the #Metoo movement, I am glad that it is now men who have to worry about complimenting and being pleasant to women. Women have had to be watchful of men all the time. I say all of the time because the times when you let down your guard would turn out to be a mistake.
The outcome of the #Metoo movement could be more open and honest and congenial relations because everybody would feel safe and comfortable because everyone would know how to treat everybody with respect.
Is it a learning curve? Yes. Will there be problems? Yes. Is it worth it? I imagine there many people who will always choose the traditional dominance and power over humanity. But not everyone and they are the ones with the true courage.
6
The Gordian Knot of all this He Said She Said is easy to slice through, with a few simple rules that are gaining acceptance as common sense.
For everyone - Only an on-going and explicit Yes means Yes; if it's unclear or if it changes to No, that's No.
For those in power (teachers, bosses, shrinks, clergy, etc.) - Those below you can't give the same informed consent as you can--even when they're seducing you--so don't. One complicated case here. People who are blackout drunk can't give informed consent, but if they're not passed out, they can still be the life of the party, and only a neurologist can tell ... So don't get that drunk, so that you don't give an informed-seeming-but-incapacitated uninhibited Yes.
For everyone - In situations where people commonly jockey for power, status, money or other transactional advantage, no one is intrinsically to be believed, so opt for as much transparency as feasible. (Replacing the wrong belief that men are more credible with the equally wrong belief that women are more credible assures only that the pendulum will keep swinging.)
For both women and men - Coloring outside these kinds of lines markedly increases your risk, including that others you encounter outside these lines may be better at shifting risk and harm to others than you are...
1
What defense lawyer Donna Rotunno doesn't understand is that the #MeToo phenomenon that was catalyzed by Harvey Weinstein - is really a shift in awareness that has reverberated around the globe. It is here to stay & if we wake up to this, everyone will benefit.
So, yes, there is a day in court for Weinstein. But understand that Weinstein is a monster, no different than Epstein or Bill Cosby. If by some legal chicanery, Rotunno gets Weinstein off or gets a reduced sentence, she will have not served the laws of Mother Nature (feminine side of the Divine).
2
She should be ashamed
2
The "right to sex with you" is not a fundamental right.
Get over yourselves.
You are not special. You still have to ask for permission.
You have to accept "No!" for an answer.
You may not in any way retaliate against anyone who rejects your sexual invitation.
Anything else is a violation of the laws that abolished slavery.
I am my own person. You know nothing about me. Assume nothing; keep your hands to yourself, and your clothes on.
8
NYT please publish a follow up article on underreported rape. Me too is not dangerous what a horrible backlash to say so. Believe Women is an ideal. There have been no banners claiming no due process. How many hundreds of years have women been oppressed and finally a movement to create awareness is called dangerous? For every male career that has been damaged because of an accusation, well that is up to their employer. Not the alleged victim. This woman could make her skills more useful representing falsely accused black men sitting in prison for non violent drug offenses or some other injustice that has been well documented.
Heck we still can’t ratify the ERA in this country but oh a protest slogan is dangerous? Please. I am only shocked that the NYT gave her so much ink. Anyone else offended by this article? Me too.
5
Harvey Weinstein, alleged predator of young girls, a man who threw his considerable Hollywood weight around for sexual favors, now walks, stooped and humble, behind a powerful woman. Hoping she will save him.
Rich.
8
Forget the lawyer.. they are paid to defend criminals. It's what they do.. and for this laywer.. high power criminals mean high power legal fees. She is in it for the money... guilt and ethics are simply not a factor.
What really bothers me here... Weinstein is suddenly so weak and frail that he needs a walker to move about? Get real! This is the same tactic used by Cosby.. feigning infirmity and needing someones arm just to walk down the sidewalk. I very much doubt any juror is swayed by this nonsense. These men prey on women via use of their power and wealth.. and then when they are held accountable.. suddenly they are helpless cripples.... cry me a river.
5
Remember Jeffrey Epstein's house arrest? Ms. Rotunno wants "due process" for her clients because it's bent in their favor.
3
Weinstein should drop that cheap theatrics. He should leave the walker to a needy and start walking his head high.
2
It is said everyone deserves representation - even the Harvey Weinsteins of the world
Now while I might disagree with the above, think about this……
Who do you believe -
His numerous women accusers?
OR
Harvey's denials?
And i almost forgot Harvey's lawyer/s………...
2
I wonder if she knows how idiotic she sounds talking about “a movement that strips people of their fundamental rights?” What would she call the system that stripped women of their fundamental rights for several millennia?
6
Why is the Times giving this woman the self serving publicity she seeks? I don't see an article about the leading prosecutor. Is this really news worthy? I expect better from the Times.
3
@Com It's a PR piece.
After she gets Weinstein off the hook, she can free Bill Cosby.
4
I have heard that men have to deal with sexual harassment too. I've heard them say that women take advantage of their inflated egos and expect them to be more than just show offs. Women call the men out and tell them, if you're good as you claim to be, then prove it. Men feel caught in the pinch. Some men believe that the inflated image they have of themselves needs to be defended, so they submit to the woman' challenge, only to discover that the woman was right about them and they are just phony. When they find that out, and there's a split between the reality of who they are and the fantasy of being more than who they are, they feel they've been abused. Seems complicated but that's why a #cry-bully movement for men might help.
2
This is an absolute crap argument made by people who do not understand the constructs of patriarchy. For every “500 positives” and “1 negative”, there are 1000s of unreported assaults and rape. What is her opinion then about not having it both ways?
7
Sorry this is not directly on point, but I am struck every time I see a photo or video of this man using one the most basic and inexpensive "walkers" with no back wheels but rather tennis balls. A movie man who understands the value of a good prop. Really.
7
Tend to agree that #MeToo has likely caused more damage than suspected. Publicly claiming your Me Too status puts a target on your back, but it took off so quickly, not many women likely stepped back and thought of the consequences. And from a male hiring manager perspective, as a woman, I cannot fault them for having their radar on constant alert. So would I. Sad state of affairs.
3
Anyone who says this — “she may be motivated as much by the recognition and future work the case will bring her as by her legal principles“ — does not know much about lawyers. Of course the media attention and the boost to the reputation are part of the motivation. Any courtroom lawyer dreams about having their name attached to a good test case.
I agree with Rotunno about women (men are victims, too, it this case is about women allegedly assaulted by a man) not having it both ways, and that, “Having voluntary sex with someone even if it is a begrudging act is not a crime after the fact.” Some of the accusations against Weinstein (accusations I have read, not necessarily those in the court case) sound more like remorse about transactional sex than assault. That kind of exchange of favors is common in Hollywood. You don’t get to change the terms of a contract after it’s signed.
(FWI, I am a sexual assault victim, and the things I saw and experienced in the workplace in the 1980s and 1990s would curl your hair. )
Where I don’t agree with Rotunno is that that the #METOO movement somehow strips anyone of their rights. Everyone has the right to sue, or file a complaint. Everyone has the right to his or her day in court. While the public discussions and published articles on this subject have crossed the line occasionally — throwing accusations around is dangerous — I am hoping that the end result will justify the messy process. Hoping, not expecting. We’ll see.
1
"We can’t have movements that strip us of our fundamental rights," she declares.
The social dominance of rich, powerful men is not a legal 'right'. It is more the Rock of Gibraltar on which male privilege rests, the 'divine' right of "boys will be naughty boys". There is no constitutional right to coercive sex.
Defense attorneys have broad rights to speak in defense of their clients in court, as do prosecutors. As Officers of the Court both should stick to defending their side in court. They have no professional role in the circus outside. Grandstanding there shows a contempt for their duty to their clients rather than their own celebrity status.
5
walkers, heart conditions, bathrobes...all part of a good defense!
7
Donna Rotunno is quite the soul dead, black-hearted mercenary.
She is not “simply” defending her clients in order to afford them fair treatment before the bench. She is doing all she can to set fire to victims in an effort to spring the criminals who are paying her to set them free.
This is most obvious in the message she asked another lawyer to transmit to a teenage victim: “Tell her I had a job to do. I don’t want this to define what happens to her.”
Right. As if being pummeled to pulp in the courtroom by an attorney determined to let another sex assault criminal off the hook won’t follow this young woman forever.
5
Ms. Rotunno is right, but the #metoo movement can’t afford to lose the moral case against Weinstein.
The only way to combat the unthinkable consequences of Ms. Rotunno’s strategy if it is successful is for the #metoo movement to offer a path to redemption for some of the men who have been taken down by it.
Our response to Louis C.K. can’t be either “I don’t care what he did, the guy is funny” or “his actions are unforgivable so he is forever cancelled”. How do we forgive him and others and allow them back their lives with caveats or some consequences?
If we can answer this question we might find the path to forgiveness between the manic extremes of our political factions and learn to be one nation again.
2
“Me too” is not on trial. Harvey Weinstein is; if he sexually assaulted the victims and is convicted his guilt will have been established with all the due process protections afforded by the Constitution and applicable criminal statutes, and he can more than most defendants afford those rights assumed but beyond the grasp of many. If he is convicted it will be because a jury finds the evidence presented in court established guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
“Me too” is not merely about criminal justice. It is about changing the tolerated conduct in which those in power exploit those perceived as weak or dependent for sexual exploitation or domination. It is about balancing that power. Public outing and outrage is likely more effective than the relying on the judicial system. Epstein is a case in point; despite a “negotiated” conviction labeling him a sexual predator, he was able to “massage” his image as a benevolent philanthropist for years. Weinstein may beat the rap in court, but the trial by “Me Too” is intended to ensure “Never Again” by a particular defendant and his cohorts.
3
Rotuno wouldn't be an ethical attorney, if she did not argue her client's case. That's it. Were a man taking on the defense of a much despised client would argument's about the defense's character even come up?
4
I know this lawyer's tactic is to make Weinstein look frail and
old and harmless. But please someone hand him a walker from this century. Not even the poorest of the poor in my province use these walking devices any longer. Weinstein's is like a prop to define character in a play.
7
Rotunno is absolutely wrong on this point: “As a woman, Ms. Rotunno anticipates that she can take a harder line against Mr. Weinstein’s accusers without looking like a bully. Jurors, she said, will simply see two women having a conversation.”
As a woman myself, I know that women can be harder on other women than men are. Gloria Allred is correct. Jurors may be turned off by that approach. I would be.
1
If you believe her last quote - you believe that powerful manipulative men are the victims - unicorns are alive and well and Harvey is a delicate flower who is a saint.
“But I think that because he’s a powerful guy, they would use him and use him and use him for anything they could.”--
2
She’s worried that, “a public rush to condemn men accused of sexual misconduct and assault is shredding reputations and careers without due process?” What about all the reputations and careers that have been ruined for women who did not acquiesce to sexual advances? Where was their due process? It’s time to stop coddling these predators and making excuses for them. Yes, even the most despicable and contemptible deserve competent representation. But to build your reputation as a lawyer who defends men accused of sexual assault? Nothing to be proud of.
5
so a woman cant meet a person in a hotel room? by saying that it victimizes the woman all over again. no I wouldn't meet anyone in a hotel room not because it isn't safe. I had sexual harassment at work and that was out in the open. she is blaming the woman period full stop.
3
A little necklace saying "Not Guilty." Would the judge permit a button stating the same in court?
2
Unfortuneately she has to make her case based on a man who is a super predator, so while she may have a point it is a hopeless argument.
2
Can't understand why she only has him with a walker.
Maybe she's waiting for the trial to put him in a wheelchair.
Or an iron lung.
3
As ruthless and predatory as Weinstein appears to be, thankfully we still have a legal system where he has rights and is entitled to a defense. Sadly, such fairness was not provided some of those accused of much, much less, like Al Franken. In the end, though, those who sought to deny Franken and others fairness, like Senator Gillibrand, came to realize vigilante forms of retribution will not be tolerated, and they suffered justified and well deserved consequences too.
6
Good for her. In Texas we'd say so politely, "Bless her heart". That can be taken one of two ways. Guess which way it is intended.
2
"The feminist cause" is not some narrow issue limited to a segment of the population of this country, or any country. Half of all humanity is female and more than half of them have experienced sexual assault. Even at that, the assault itself is just the tip of the iceberg since it's motivated by the pervasive assumption that women are worth less than men, that men therefore have the right to hold power over women in myriad ways, the most egregious being assault. How is this not obvious.
4
What happened to the presumption of innocence and to due process? Why this internet driven mob rule?
4
@Gabe
what of do you speak ?
HW is going to court with his defense lawyer
no internet , no mob
4
“Tell her I had a job to do. I don’t want this to define what happens to her.”
Translation: "I should be able to do absolutely anything to get what I want, because winning is the only thing that matter. I don't plan on spending even one second of my time thinking about the impact that my actions have on anyone else, not do I think that I'm responsible for any consequences of my actions.
If my actions happens to cause harm someone to else, well that's on them, not on me. The ends justify whatever means I choose - whether that requires destroying the life of a child or not. Everyone else should just move on, get over it, and I'll be on my merry, selfish way."
Really not a shocker that this person is a good fit to represent Harvey Weinstein.
29
@Tracy: So, if you ever get charged with a crime, you want your lawyer to attack you in the media? Of course not. I was a criminal defense attorney for 30 years. I represents some good people, some horrible people and a lot of really stupid people who were neither really good or really bad. We attorneys are required to defend our clients with the best of our ability, not judge them. That job is for a jury.
5
@Jeff Fair enough. But to be precise, you are not required to do anything. You have chosen - of your own will - a profession that requires you to defend horrible people to the best of your ability, along with some good people.
Fair enough. I agree that defense lawyers have an important and valuable function in society, even when the defendants in question are horrific.
But don't ever look for anyone to coddle you, if you attempt to be so shallow and flippant as to suggest that the attorney of a CHILD should pass a message to her that "you were just doing your job, and that you don't want this to define her."
You don't get to want for anything in that case - particularly not the forgiveness and understanding of a child whose life you've participated in destroying.
That is what demonstrates an appalling level of selfishness to me - even more so than the act of defending horrible people.
4
In our jurisdiction , the press is restricted on what they can report on an accused person after charge . Such prohibition is rigorously enforced under the 1981 Contempt of Court Act . Judges have been known to discharge juries and pursue publications or other news outlets who offend the legislation . Anything goes in the States: analysis of potential jurors ; dialogue between respective prosecution and defence counsel ; repeated characterisation of an accused as “ animal “, “ evil “ etc . Whither the presumption of innocence ?
1
To date ,the me too movement has won more multi million dollar settlements than anything.None had witnesses ,videos ,or rape kits and very few concerned non concentual sex ,or sex at all.Many cases simply imply embarassment verbally ,possibly abusive. The attorney is correct in saying there's a prejudicial imbalance here against men.We have prosecutions today where video and victims injuries are truly evident which have leveled the playing field for abuse against women but the "she said ,he said " me too movement is undoubtedly out of control and highly biased.Certainly allowing for the debate that cultural and social and professional environments should always have more regards for discipline against abuse of all persons including men and women,common sense for fairness is essential.
9
I bet a significant proportion of men in this country are cheering at her statement: “If we have 500 positives that come from a movement, but the one negative is that it strips you of your right to due process and a fair trial, and the presumption of innocence, then to me, not one of those things can outweigh the one bad,” she said in an interview. “We can’t have movements that strip us of our fundamental rights.”
I wonder how many of those same men also vociferously argue against getting rid of the Death Penalty?
6
@Rudy Volz: I'm one of those men who has opposed the death penalty for my whole life (I'm 70). I'm also a retired criminal defense attorney. I represented a lot of people who were guilty of something. The only way our legal system is fair to the innocent is if it is fair to the guilty. Metoo! is very important and needed in this world but at the same time "guilt by allegation" which many in the Metoo! movement seem to tacitly propound is a danger to everyone's right to a fair trial.
5
Many men do, including myself.
1
This case brings to mind the Jian Ghomeshi trial in Canada involving several sexual assault charges (2016). The trial was a fiasco and Mr. Ghomeshi was acquitted and walked out of the courtroom with his high profile female lawyer, Marie Henein. His three (or four?) accusers came across as deceitful for not disclosing relevant matters and the prosecution was blindsided when it was revealed in court. I just watched Donna Rotunno being interviewed on ABC and I think her statement that even if Harvey Weinstein is exonerated and walks out of the courthouse steps not guilty of the charges his life is ruined, he will never be Harvey Weinstein again. This is true of Jian Ghomeshi, he could not simply pick up and carry on with his life.
3
Mr Weinstein is an awful human being. I hope he spends many years in prison.
Having said that, I have to say that metoo#, like many so-called ‘movements’, is starting to do some harm to some innocent men and young men.
9
I keep thinking about Salma Hayek’s op ed about Weinstein which I read right here. I’m struck about how he used his money and influence over people’s careers, in order to get sex. I know he’s on trial for rape but the MeToo movement isn’t about rape, it’s about ripping people off, ruining their work and their lives. Bullying through sex. This lawyer conflates the two.
22
@Enjoy The Kitchen
she is a professional , BTW
#metoo staying away from capitalistic females in America as far as possible
3
@vova A dear happiness to women.
2
There’s a reason Harvey Weinstein, year after year, continued to expect sex in return for movie roles: because, at least some of the time, it worked. Let’s face it, women were complicit in this tit-for-tat arrangement.
15
@MDB Do you mean this tit for tat:
"Mr. Weinstein is charged with raping one woman in a Manhattan hotel room in 2013 and forcing oral sex on a second woman in his apartment in 2006."
2
@MDB: No, not complicit but needing the job or the employment recommendation. Even with the #Meetoo movement in many, many industries and businesses, a woman who accuses a boss of sexual assault will be "black balled" and never work in that industry again.
2
The jury will just see two women having a conversation—
Ugh. Let’s hope the jury has more brains than that.
5
I practiced as a social worker and once faced a woman like Rotunno in a deposition. She was defending a man that had abused a client of mine. She was a terrible bully and the law allowed her to be a bully. What a sorry human being she was.
12
@Mary. That’s called being cross examined. Sometimes people are unavoidably involved in litigation but at other times our choices put is in that position.
@Patrick. All the attorney representing my client (I had no attorney for me) could say was, "I object to the form of the question." This was pathetic. She should have been able to object to the intention of the questions which were basically a form of character assassination either of me or my client. There was no judge there to oversee the deposition so I don't see it as a cross examination.
Were there any of Weinstein's victims that understood the unwritten contract they were entering into, and who entered into it anyway? Or were they unaware?
3
Defense attorneys "police the police." For uncovering the truth behind several unfounded accusations, she is vilified. Let's keep truth-finding at the top of the agenda in the courts, not social reform or politics, regardless of how virtuous and needed the message may be.
8
“We can’t have movements that strip us of our fundamental rights."
I'm thinking of the hundreds of thousands of people sitting in jail right now who didn't have the money, connections or legal firepower of $1K an hour attorneys who stand on a soapbox and caterwaul about "fundamental rights."
17
The #MeToo movement has left a lot of collateral dammage in it's wake. Look at comedian and former US Senator Al Franken. He did nothing more than kid around with a long time friend; much more so than many women did with me at a company I used to own. Did I fire them for doing so? Of course not! They should change their name to "#MeTooPuritan".
12
@Easy Goer
Franken was punished enough to give up a desperately needed dem senate vote. Ms Liberty’s scales are clearly broken.
2
What's up with the 67 yr. old Weinstein using a walker? Is being held to account for his sexual harassment making his knees weak? Does using a walker make him look harmless? There are just too many women who have told similar accounts of encounters with Weinstein to believe that he is innocent.
Money and power have protected men like him for too long. That Ms. Rotunno is a female doesn't mean anything. It's a typical tactic for the sexual predator to hire a woman attorney to defend them. I'm sure she's getting paid very well.
15
@Gina: "What's up with the 67 yr. old Weinstein using a walker?"
Spinal surgery.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7861069/Harvey-Weinstein-hobbles-doctors-office-using-walker-20-minute-appointment.html
See what happens when one jumps to conclusions?
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
2
@Rev. E. M. Camarena, PhD
Yes, and here he is at Target, right after those court appearances, not using a walker. https://pagesix.com/2019/12/12/harvey-weinstein-spotted-sans-walker-sparking-speculation/.
2
However repellent and unacceptable Firestein's behavior is, the lawyer is absolutely right. Twitter is not our court system. This PC hysteria has to end.
8
“Having voluntary sex with someone even if it is a begrudging act is not a crime after the fact.”
Rotunno is exactly right!
Weinstein might be a terrible person who did terrible things to women, but the final judgment belongs in court, not in public opinion. Weinstein deserves a robust defense, just like everybody else.
As a man who treats both women and men with respect, it terrifies me that if a woman acquaintance decided to charge me with a completely fictional sexual abuse *or* decided to characterize her consensual sex act as an abuse, I would be guilty until proven innocent -- which proof might be impossible no matter how innocent I was in fact.
If women want to take part in the workplace and leadership positions, they have to relinquish the attitude of "If I say he's guilty, then he's guilty." If they don't, then any group with some men in it will be terrified from hiring women.
Of course I'm generalizing, and everybody is different. I'm grateful for people like Rotunno.
13
@Astrochimp - "As a man who treats both women and men with respect, it terrifies me that if a woman acquaintance decided to charge me..."
Can you even begin to imagine the terror that a male acquaintance could actually rape you and you would be left powerless to do anything about it and may even have a lasting consequence?
The chances that you will be falsely accused are far far less than a woman actually being raped yet women are expected to work with men without terror.
No one favors false accusations, but it is always interesting to see what men view as disastrous but women are expected to cope with daily.
6
@Astrochimp But no one is accusing him of voluntary sex that they begrudged. "Mr. Weinstein is charged with raping one woman in a Manhattan hotel room in 2013 and forcing oral sex on a second woman in his apartment in 2006." Complete non-sequitur. The defense attorney of course has to defend him any way she can, including blowing smoke to try to obscure the issue.
4
@Astrochimp wrote: "“Having voluntary sex with someone even if it is a begrudging act is not a crime after the fact.”
Rotunno is exactly right!"
This trial is not about having voluntary sex with someone. Weinstein is being tried for rape.
8
Is Ms Rotunno also responsible for the decision to portray Mr Weinstein as a feeble old man, hunched over and using a walker? Because that decision, like her assertion that Me Too is dangerous, is ridiculous, a real howler.
11
"strip" being the operative word.
Oh the irony!
2
Yea that walker gets my sympathy vote. Poor guy.
4
She is smart, good at her job, and right about #metoo. No matter what the circumstances or issue, no one can have it both ways.
4
Just goes to show that money-grubbing opportunists exist in all genders.
6
Allred says a bully is a bully?! How about all those press conferences to smear those you would like money from? A bully really is a bully.
4
Which one is Harvey? They are starting to have the same expression on their face. Ive heard it said everyone is entitled to a fair trial, but this just looks ridiculous. Get the guy of Hoveround scooter at least so his expensive suit doesn’t look so crummy.
3
Why is defending men accused of sex crimes labeled an “unusual specialty?” Is this a news article or an editorial? I guess this is an example of the new journalism Baquet promised.
2
A few days ago I watched the iconic science-fiction film "Forbidden Planet" - produced in 1956 --
There's a scene with Anne Francis (her debut role) - who has never been in the company of any men, except for her father - and one of the crew members of the space ship --
Having never had any reason to think about it - the young woman is dressed in what essentially looks like a cheerleader outfit - short skirt and all --
The crewman tricks the young and innocent Altaira (Francis) into "experimenting" the experience of kissing -- something she's never done -
As the man is kissing her - the captain of the ship comes by and puts a stop to the "experiment" --
After the crewman leaves - the captain admonishes the young innocent woman by telling her that she's very beautiful and - "You can't go around dressed like that in front of all these men"
Altaira looks understandably perplexed - as the captain tries to explain to her why it's her responsibility to consider how men will react to way she dresses herself --
We like to think that we've progressed since then and things have changed --
But - not so much...
6
@Howard G - " it's her responsibility to consider how men will react to way she dresses herself --"
And we have entire religions and countries indoctrinating millions with this notion. It's not simply "men" in general, its an institutionalized and legal reality for billions living in fundamentalist societies of many faiths.
1
@Marie Isn't is funny how difficult it is for women to be improper when there are no men around?
1
Question for lawyer. Did Weinstein care about anyone's RIGHTS when he intimidated young women?
Weinstein and his walker are pathetic.
8
The personification of a creep. His Vinny the chin Gigante act is fooling no one. Is anyone feeling sorry for this low life because he uses a walker but by some miracle when he is out in a nightclub trying to get his swagger on the walker is gone. I believe in miracles Harvey and apparently your big retainer has your lawyer believing in the miracle that your innocent.
7
This article is a PR puff piece for Donna Rotunno. Why do we hold a fascination with the defense lawyer in controversial cases? Weinstein's lawyer of any gender would simply be doing the job they are paid to do. That makes for a boring story, but so be it.
Ms. Rotunno is crafty and knows her statement that #MeToo is 'Dangerous' will put her into the limelight and get her more business. It is a shame that the NYT fell for her business development tactic.
The defendant, his alleged actions, and the trial proceedings should remain in our focus. Not the professional accomplishments or personal opinions of the attorneys.
6
Please. I'm waiting for Weinstein to show up for trial in his bathrobe, like Vinny the Chin.
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/19/obituaries/vincent-gigante-mafia-leader-who-feigned-insanity-dies-at-77.html
5
If the state had a foot on your neck with the intention of breaking it who would you rather have defending you, a lap dog or a pit bull?
5
@Warren
I spent 10 years as an attorney at an AmLaw 50 firm, after five years as a federal prosecutor. I can assure you that, despite what TV and movies show, the most effective lawyers are neither pitbulls nor lapdogs, but rather meticulous, measured individuals with the intellect and patience to build a solid case, whether criminal or civil.
16
@baller
It's hyperbole meant to illustrate extremes but thanks for the nuance.
@Warren
There's aggressive defense of your client and then there's lying and attacking victims.
3
O.J.Simpson docet
Donna Rotunno is doing her job. A job she is being paid handsomely to do. That's to discredit accusers. To find a way to present Harvey Weinstein in a sympathetic nature. No doubt Weinstein using a walker is designed to create sympathy for this old frail man, or an attempt to view him as weak and unable to defend himself. All smoke and mirrors. Crosby did the same thing at his trial.
If Harvey Weinstein had not been called out, he'd still be running his empire and abusing women. It's who he is and it's what he does. And he'd be standing upright on two strong legs doing it.
I am confident our legal system will prevail and Weinstein will be convicted on factual evidence provided. Weinstein could serve 12 life sentences and it will never rectify the abuse and harm he caused so many women.
11
@Valerie. And if he is found not guilty where does he go to get his reputation back
@Valerie: As long as you are not on the jury, a fair trial may happen. But you have convicted Weinstein based on news stories not facts.
Far as I can tell, MeToo’s record in “convicting” predators is just about as good as the justice system’s, which seems to put quite a few innocent people behind bars.
7
I wonder which of his films Weinsteins' walker prop was used in?
4
Rottunno is right - everyone deserves a vigorous defense and being found guilty in the court of pubic opinion is unjust and another kind of abuse of power.
However, to say that sex is or was ever “consensual” between a person and someone who 1)has absolute power over their career, and 2)has the advantage of greater physical strength and weight is stretching the term “consensual” to the breaking point.
Do people make “choices” in these circumstances? Yes. Like the choice someone makes to do what they are told when a gun is held to their temple.
10
@SDM Their choice was to find a career outside of highly lucrative acting jobs. Yes, it was a devil's bargain, but it was a bargain of money, not life or death
4
@SDM
So no sex act between a person who has power over another's career and a physical strength and weight advantage can ever be consensual?
How about sex with a person on whom one is financially dependent and who has a strength and weight advantage? Before you answer, remember, that used to be what was called "marriage".
1
@SDM so a man who is stronger physically than a woman could be construed to be an abuser if they have consensual sex?
1
I am jaded and think the ol "Casting couch" will remain as part of show business for male actors as well as female actors as victims but if lawyers such as Ms. Rotunno can reduce this once horrid pre requisite to employment well surely that is great news.
1
@Carlyle T. On the contrary. Ms. Rotunno's efforts, if successful, will enable the horrid casting couch.
2
@dannyboy: The only way to eliminate the "Casting Couch" in any business is for all woman to decide that no job (or other relationship) is worth trading sex for.
Ms. Rotunno is correct. The MeToo movement and the rest of cancel culture are very dangerous. You never know where this type of demagoguery will be aimed next.
16
I have just spent an unproductive ten minutes perusing the Constitution for a reference to our right to sexually harass persons over whom we have power. No luck.
As I am certain Mr. Rotunno did not make a mistake I presume the mistake is mine.
Any help will be appreciated.
10
@Steve Daniel Kinda funny, but not what she was talking about.
2
I too hope Weinstein dies in prison. But he still legally and constitutionally deserves an adequate defense, as indefensible as he is. Whether the defender is male or female doesn't matter. This woman will have to live with her conscience -- if she has one.
3
What's with the walker, a hollywood prop?
6
She sounds like a worthy advocate for those that are guaranteed just that by our Constitution. She is unworthy of any denigration. Without people like her, our system of justice would implode.
Interesting that she has a background in catholicism. I only wish that some of those very sick catholic men needed her to defend them, but then, they're above the law.
8
There are plenty of male criminal defense lawyers who can uphold Weinstein's right to a fair trial. He wants a woman to represent him for transparent reasons, just as the other men accused on sexual assault represented by Ms. Rotunno. It's amazing that there are multiple women who are presumably rejecting heaps of money to keep silent about their encounters with Harvey, and this women decides to be the representative to make their sacrifice null. The greed and lack of empathy from this woman is disgusting.
7
@Sarah F.
What is disgusting is the belief that a woman can never make the choice to serve whatever role she chooses in a court of law because you don't like it.
4
@Sarah F. You presume that Ms. Rotunno is not a very good attorney but is merely a "Woman Attorney." I'm a retired Criminal Defense Attorney. In my 30 plus years in that job, I never saw any evidence that juries gave any defendant a special break because the defense attorney was a woman. I also never saw a women attorney working in the criminal justice system try to play on being a woman. I would guess that if Weinstein hired a male attorney, you would accuse him of using a male attorney to bully the women accusers. I assume that Weinstein hired whom he thought was the best attorney for the job.
Debates about the evolution of the culture should be irrelevant in criminal justice cases.
3
So she’s saying that it’s the victims that are dangerous, not the criminal. You can pay a mouthpiece to say anything you want, it doesn’t matter what sex the mouthpiece is.
8
Of course she thinks #MeToo is dangerous. She is a defense attorney. If she was the attorney for the plaintiff, she'd be praising it. People who are in the position of Harvey Weinstein or Bill Cosby don't get there from false accusations. And people whose practices solely or largely defend those people are probably as dangerous as they are. The actual percentage of false accusations is pretty low. Does this woman know that these photos of her looking so fierce next to the poor, frail Harvey are laughable?
8
@Susie: #Metoo can be dangerous if it actively promotes the theory that women never falsely accuse men of sexual assault and that any man so accused was always guilty.
1
I tell my daughter "If the guy is paying for your five cups of coffee, hem is interested in your personality. However, if he is paying for your five glasses of alcohol, he may be interested in something else."
5
@nydoc
Whaaaattt???
2
A few points: The rule of law. Innocent until proven guilty (the decidedly and intentionally exact opposite of its inverse; ref. Salem, the Inquisition, the Gulag Archipelago). Due process under the law.
Victim culture: Thrilling at first to the self-righteously indignant, ultimately destructive to the entire culture over the long term, and clearly, very clearly, irrational at every step.
Weinstein, no saint, for sure, but neither Satan himself, may well be acquitted. No matter. He is literally ruined, physically and mentally and financially, and is figuratively dead in his world. And all this has happened before any gavel has fallen in any court calling the matter to order, to begin.
Things are nuts, for sure. Down is up, and up is down, and vengeful fools dance on increasingly large piles of smoldering rubble, and The Times, out of either misplaced notions of virtue or, remarkably, ignorance, is unwilling or unable to see and communicate the most difficult truths behind all this, and simply stokes, daily, the mad flames.
Is selling newspapers, electronic or otherwise, more that important?
3
@Omar Alan
That's quite a fanciful picture you paint.
1
I’m curious how many women went along with Harvey’s bargain — please me, and I boost your career. I don’t doubt Harvey Weinstein was a monster, but I can’t help but think that there weren’t women who enabled him along the way. Such behavior without any payoff would have crashed him and the Weinstein company if it was never successful. The Weinsteins were never the only producers making films and careers.
Maybe somebody we’ll get to hear some of those stories, I think it would be enlightening to understand what goes through women’s heads when they make a deal with the devil.
5
@Mobocracy You are skipping over the women like Mira Sorvino and Darryl Hannah who turned him down and saw themselves blacklisted and their careers over.
1
@Mobocracy
Yes, women enabled Weinstein by him being one of the most powerful men in Hollywood, and the women wanting to work and knowing his wrath could end their careers.
Silly women. They could have just got a different job or stayed home and had babies, right?
It’s called “blaming the victim.”
2
@Mobocracy exactly. it's not like they were having consensual, reluctant sex with the janitor
Room full of alpha males and females trying to light up a jury that will very likely become exhausted and just want it to end.
2
This whole case seems to hinge on the fact that the women accusing Weinstein possessed no free agency -ie: they did not have the capacity to say "no". In the real world, we all know that this is a fallacy. I have seen no evidence that he legally "raped" anyone, and I have no sympathy for this person. The proceedings here seem like more #metoo Russia style show trial than anything else, and is something of an affront to real victims of sexual violence that never had an opportunity to say no. His conviction in the court of public opinion is fine - in a court of law, it could be troubling.
7
@bronx refugee The reason that you have seen no evidence that he raped anyone is that you were not on the investigation, prosecution, defence or jury.
Now that you have the reason, do you continue to conclude that "The proceedings here seem like more #metoo Russia style show trial than anything else, and is something of an affront to real victims of sexual violence""
You must know that Mr Weinstein is on trial for rape and that the prosecution will introduce evidence in an attempt to prove guilt.
What is "#MeToo Russia style trial" about that?
2
@bronx refugee If you were on the jury, perhaps you would see that evidence. I don't know how you expect to see it, sitting at home.
2
"It is better that 100 guilty men go free than that one innocent man be punished." "Innocent until proven guilty." Thank the gods for defense lawyers and the Constitution. (Unfortunately it no longer seems to work that way in private employment or academia.) If after due process Harvey is found guilty by an impartial jury of his peers, having heard all the evidence, he will be punished.
Sir Thomas More: "What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?”
William Roper: “Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!”
More: “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down. . .do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!” --Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons
8
What she fails to point out is that due process is a protected right in the legal process only. It’s not meant to protect a reputation, a job, etc - those are held to a different standard for process and proof. And they don’t rely on a court’s decision of guilt or innocence.
7
Interesting that morality is a taught value based on reflection. It served Elijah Cummings well in his need to keep winning with; tough, strong and forceful. When we are about to die, do we get all dressed up and practice our lines? Are we ourselves ready for “It isn’t personal.”
1
I hear you that she is doing her job. Nobody has to like her for it - in fact, the mere question of whether or not she is likable is problematic. The fact that we aren’t holding the team of male lawyers she is leading to the same level of scrutiny is also wrong.
4
Here’s a test: 1) A tough cross of a victim. 2) An innocent man spending 20 to life in a penitentiary.
Which is the greater injustice?
7
She is right on this point: our system demands fairness. And fairness requires a victim to be subject to cross examination. This does not mean we humiliate a victim by claiming that the way she dressed or the way she talked invited a sexual assault. But it means that a person who claims to be a rape victim must confront the lawyer for the accused in some fashion. That is not a radical idea. We can believe the women while also requiring victims to be subject to cross examination.
7
The true measure of a society is whether it can treat those whom it considers loathsome without prejudice.
8
I think part of the metoo movement should focus on women claiming their own agency and responsibility when it comes to sex. That means saying no when some creep suggests you meet in his hotel room instead of a coffee shop or lobby bar. That means using the buddy system when going out and about-- bar crawling or to parties on fraternity row. That means consuming alcohol in moderate amounts. And sadly, this also means we must own the events that occur to us IF we do not follow standards that I suggest. And of course, I exclude girls under 16 from my standards, becasue under almost any circumstances-- they are victims.
4
Better yet, let’s not allow women to go out and about unaccompanied by a male escort who is a member of their family.
or maybe, just maybe:
The answer is for men to take responsibility to NOT RAPE.
1
@karen Do these "buddy system", hotel room, and moderate drinking rules apply to me?
Or just to women?
Do I need a buddy with me to go to a bar. And how many drinks are allowed?
2
Sex represents an intersection between the power of hormone and naked power- an action that is not particularly high on the cerebral meter. The power imbalance between Mr Weinstein and his accusers is undeniable. But whether he has unduly manipulted their vulnerability and should be punished is really an intensely disturbing thought. I fear that no possible outcome of his trial will truly define the spirit behind those encounters that are now deemed to have gone rogue.
1
@Ekweremadu en A rape trial is going on. How exactly do hormones come in?
@dannyboy Hormones are the enablers of the act and can affect decision processing on both sides.
I agree with the attorney. Accusers need to be questioned thoroughly. Possible motives need to be uncovered. Otherwise we are back to the Puritan witch trials. Hopefully we’ve learned something from that.
Due process should also include protecting the accused person’s identity until they have been found guilty in the court of law.
A mere accusation can ruin a person’s life, their career, and it is recorded forever on the internet. People have committed suicide. That is not okay. Protecting identities also ensures a fairer trial.
It is very dangerous to blindly assume all accusers tell the truth and shame or attack the people who question them. Some women might want to cover up an affair their husband found out about or make a false accusation to get their boss out of the way. Or maybe some want to have their #metoo story. Or they feel guilty and don’t want to admit their behavior to coworkers, or they want sympathy and attention. So many possible motives...
Women are just people. All of them are different. Some are kind, some meek and passive, and some can be cunning and manipulative. In our haste to be supportive, let’s not give the cunning ones a free path to do whatever they want, though.
5
@BT Victims have committed suicide, too, especially when they have not been believed.
1
@Laura: First, you presume that every woman who accused a man of a crime is telling the truth. Then you blame someone other than the woman for committing suicide when that woman is not believed. It is horrific that you see women as uniformly weak and defenseless creatures who would never lie about being sexually assaulted.
Two years ago, #MeToo undid much of its value by instituting a wave of kangaroo courts that convicted many of the accused men, costing them their jobs. Without due process. Without witnesses. Without cross-examinations. Without sentencing before a judge. Without appeal.
The allegations of accusers were the sole basis for judgment and punishment.
Ms. Rotunno has quite effectively stood against this abominable, yet tolerated practice, and deserves the thanks of all those who defend the rights of the accused, which is to defend the Constitution.
To those who would say: what about the rights of the accuser?--- those rights are in fact respected.
The right of the accuser is to receive due process in the disposition of the accuser's charge.
The picture of the defendant's leaving court, accompanying the story, testifies to the fulfillment of just those accuser's rights.
4
@alyosha
Where? Where did this happen? Who are these countless men who unfairly lost their jobs on the word of an accuser alone with no further inquiry? I want names, because if you're referring to people like Matt Lauer and Charlie Rose, they were afforded due process. I can guarantee you those companies did not can them without a thorough investigation. They're opening themselves up to huge lawsuits otherwise. In fact, every statement they released upon announcing the terminations included phrases like "upon completion of an investigation."
6
@blackie
You make the common mistake of believing that if it didn't happen to a celebrity, it didn't happen. You'll find the stories all over, including in the comments sections of some of these pieces. But since it has happened to people you've never heard of, you've never heard their stories.
We have virtually no employee protections in this country, and while we have the right to sue after the fact, those cases are very hard to win and too expensive for someone who isn't wealthy. Companies are within their rights to fire someone for any reason they want, as long as it isn't because of race or gender. And it's much easier to do that than to deal with even the possibility of bad press if they defend an accused employee.
3
@blackie
Three days or week after the charges. C'mon.
Her comment "I should put myself in any situation I want and play victim,..." is important to note. Anyone might question the judgement of someone who puts themselves in a vulnerable position but that doesn't excuse the crime. If I walk through a crime ridden area covered in jewels people would question my judgement if I'm mugged but I doubt anyone would say that excuses the mugger. Why do we excuse rapists in a similar context?
MeToo affects the court of public opinion - and no has due process there - not the legal process where Harvey Weinstein is getting his legal due process.
8
"Mere unsubstantiated accusations." Hmm, that's an interesting phrase that I keep reading in these comments. so let's take a moment to acknowledge that an accusation is always "a statement that someone has done something wrong or illegal." That's it. It's always just a statement.
If someone grabs my backpack and runs away, I may approach a police officer or passerby and say, "That person stole my backpack!" Would they then sit around and not act because, well, "Your statement is unsubstantiated, Sir." Of course not. The accusation is taken at face value in the moment and a process is then put into action to determine whether in fact what I have claimed has merit.
My car was stolen. My house was broken into. My dog was kicked. These are all "unsubstantiated" claims that are nonetheless routinely taken seriously by the same people who somehow deem it necessary to have more evidence in cases of sexual assault or harassment before the accuser is heeded.
Why is that I wonder? I think any answer must necessarily involve a close examination of the power dynamics that have shaped the roles of men and women in our culture for centuries, if not millennia.
5
@fisher
The difference is that stealing and break-ins are never consensual events while sex can be. It can be difficult to determine whether sex was rape or a consensual event when the evidence is solely he said/she said.
3
@Lynn in DC
People can make false accusations of break-ins and thefts just as easily as they can make false accusations of rape. Both require investigations. Your mention of consensual sex is merely a reference to a false accusation, which can happen in any crime. There is no difference.
Further, Fisher is referring to the dismissal of the initial complaint in a rape or sexual harassment, not the entire trial process, which is where the veracity of each party's statements will be determined, usually by a jury.
And I think he makes a very valid point that there is something peculiar about sexual assault cases where the accuser is immediately put under the microscope in ways that just do not exist for other criminal accusations.
2
@baller False accusations of theft and break-ins are easily revealed via investigation. They happened or they didn't, there is no gray area. False accusations of rape, not so much. When is it consensual sex and when is it rape? Difficult to tell, again it comes down to he said/she said.
Let him be judged by his peers, women and men. He did do did not do terrible provable acts. That a woman for money( fee) will attempt to prove he did not looks like another " pay off".
This was an interesting and informative article.
May your readers expect an equally critical, front-page article about Amy Pascal, the Hollywood producer just nominated for an Academy Award whose career has been defined by her racist statements and her spirited defense of the gender pay gap in various industries?
Surely a major Hollywood executive—who unilaterally ensured that women actors be treated as second-class citizens at Sony—is more newsworthy than the lawyer for Harvey Weinstein?
1
I am amazed at so many commentators that are willing to violate fundamental rights for a greater good they say. That's the excuse of the right wing in the past to deny rights to communists in this country. To violate the principle that a person is innocent until proven guilty, or confront your accuser. Many men's lives are destroyed when thy are accused with no proof. This is not the case only in the USA but also in European countries like Spain, where the new socialist government defines itself as feminist!
6
After reading about her background, and learning about her tactics, it’s not difficult to see that she is a mercenary hired to prop up the patriarchy.
And she’s successful at it.
She might feel powerful in the moment, but I wonder if, in her private moments, she ponders the truth of due process. Due process is granted unwaveringly to white men, but rarely to anyone else. Idealistic folks who work in the justice system need to believe that system is fair to all. It isn’t.
These women are victims of Weinstein simply by virtue of the fact that Weinstein held all the power. And the scales of justice are slow to tilt in favor of that reality.
That’s what women are sick of - the absolute paucity of recourse in a patriarchal system. Misogyny and male entitlement are not women’s problems. And victim blaming is as old and ubiquitous a maneuver as human nature. It’s an exhausting cycle of predation and exoneration.
If this attorney is going to continue with her tactics, I would recommend she read “Down Girl: The Logic of Misogyny” by Kate Manne. She might get a view of the bigger picture, not her narrow focus on some ethereal, unicorn-like notion of equitable due process.
I assume she would laugh in my face, since her designer clothes tell me this whole charade is working well for her.
4
@Michelle
Your criticism of her is shockingly personal, right down to sneering at her clothes and the fact that she gets paid well for what she does.
Feminists are all about defending women and their choices, except when those women don't fall in line with the dogma. Then they become the enemy.
3
@J.C. What dogma? You have your dogma, and I have mine.
@Michelle. I agree with J.C. Your comments are highly personal and vindictive. I am very successful, have had lots of male clients in my profession, and like to dress well. I guess I don't qualify for your version of sisterhood.
I am absolutely sincere when I say that I am glad Weinstein has an excellent attorney. Our job as lawyers is to zealously defend our clients. That includes controversial and unpopular defendants. And getting paid well and building one’s practice by doing excellent work is completely acceptable. I only wish more defendants had access to great lawyers.
11
@Lawyermom
I'm a lawyer too and I've always hated the adversarial system. I'd rather get at the truth than wade through a process where the attorney with the best tricks wins. After the injustices I've seen inside courtrooms, I'd be up for giving the inquisitorial system a try.
8
@blackie Do you have any experience with bench trials? I have often wondered if a judge would be less susceptible to the courtroom theatrics that may work on jurors. Considering what Amanda Knox went through, I would not be in a big hurry to switch to that system.
@Lawyermom: I was a criminal defense attorney for over 20 years. I'll take a jury trial over a judge trial everytime. Most judges in criminal court are former prosecutors so it is "guilty until proven innocent beyond a shadow of a doubt."
As much as Rotunno may try to change the narrative and make this trial about a ‘movement’ (whatever that means), it is, in fact, about the choices and behavior of one man. One rich, powerful white man. If we could trust the system to treat the rights of all people equally and impartially, we wouldn’t need a movement to correct the course of justice.
Rotunno’s argument rings hollow on its face, because the vast majority of people are faced with a system which already strips them of their fundamental rights.
7
@Dee: Not it it about the choices and behaviors of the defendant and his accuser.
That anyone would find it surprising that a woman would agree to be Weinstein's attorney is pretty funny.
Attorneys will do anything for money. The practice of law is a commercial business and nothing distinguishes it from other businesses. Supply and demand, profit and loss. The idea they serve some higher purpose is laughable, despite their lofty language.
Not much different from the adult movie industry.
Now go cash that check, Ms. Rotunno. I'm quite sure you earned it.
3
@Lou Good Attorneys will not “do anything for money”. There is a code of ethics.
6
I agree with Ms. Rotunno. In a free and fair society every person has a right to their day in court. Every person has the right to face their accuser and have the accusations tested. That simply does not happen in the social media world we now live in. Weinstein may or may not be guilty but that doesn't matter now. He, like Spacey and the others will forever be persona non grata because they've already been tried and found guilty in the court of public opinion.
There's a reason why professional journalists have always used the words 'accused' and 'suspect' and 'defendant'. It's to hammer home the idea that a person is innocent until proven guilty. Twitter doesn't have those kind of standards.
11
I admire Ms. Rotunno for her knowledge and dogged pursuit of justice. But, she is also guilty of the very same thing that she claims happens to her clients: she is heading into this trial assuming that each one of Weinstein's accusers had an agenda or were asking for favors and therefore his behavior is justified. And that's where we, as a society, get pretty jumbled up.
As a woman, I have learned--from experience--not to walk on a dark street alone or drink too much at a party so that I can avoid unwanted behavior or assault. I have never understood why I have to change my behavior, rather than saying it is not acceptable to take advantage of someone who is walking alone on a dark street or has had too much to drink.
Ms. Rotunno's approach in her defense strategy is such that she will do whatever she can to make sure the victims were all found to be "extorting" from her client in order to get ahead in the industry. And while it is certainly true that in some of her cases that may have been the objective, I don't buy that here. And does that really mean that his behavior is acceptable? To anyone who answers "yes" to that, it is my hope that you will never find yourself on the other side.
If Mr. Weinstein feels that his life has been ruined by the #MeToo movement, he need only look inward. Had he behaved like a decent person, he wouldn't be in this position.
Good luck.
10
@MB
Thank you for your excellent comment.
Mr. Weinstein, by virtue of having an attorney representing him and appearing in court, is receiving due process and his "fundamental rights" are in no way being "stripped." Weinstein did not have a "fundamental right" to harass and intimidate women working for him. The fact that his reputation has been destroyed by the allegations against him has everything to do with him and his alleged conduct.
3
@MB: So you believe Weinstein is guilty based on a news story. So, even if proven innocent by a jury he will still be guilty to you. American law is that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. But is sounds like to you the rule is that everyone is guilty if accused, except, of course, you.
Mob bosses where always able to find zealous lawyers who defended them at any cost. I don't think the fact the this one is female makes any difference. Women's equality has always faced its fiercest opposition from other women. All she has really done is shown she is happy to defend rich and powerful men against any charge no matter what. I'm confident she will get an endless supply of clients.
7
Ms. Rotunno needs to tell her client to lose the walker. It's not eliciting sympathy, and in fact, in my view, is doing just the opposite: a widely accused predator looking for sympathy and finding little more than contempt.
12
It is a real "tell" when a defendant shows up playing the "poor me, disabled" game. As soon as I saw the walker, I knew he had been nailed and was trying the "poor disabled me" defense. The jury and public should not be deceived by such games.
12
If you believe there should not be a death penalty, then you have to be with Ms Rotunno
This article reminds me when reading about why abolish the death penalty
American Law is grounded in protecting the innocence and always grabled with
Is it more important to protect innocence or punish guilt ?
4
Many of the crimes highlighted #METOO did not get much traction in a legal system that is geared to protecting the status quo- as a result, victims had to make do with the tools at their disposal to stop real predators. Public opinion has been a powerful and imperfect method of seeking justice where it would be otherwise denied. The powerful and imperfect justice system sometimes deserves its name, but often falls short. We are conditioned to accept its outcomes as sacrosanct, when in reality, they are simply binding.
4
@MrsWhit: Many of the allegation published by the MeToo movement were never brought to the attention of the police by the alleged victims.
If you really pay attention to what the District Attorneys and the media does, you'll see that it is actually, "Guilty until you prove yourself innocent."
6
I have worked with elderly people who use walkers for many years, and I have not seen many people use a straight leg walker with such hunched over posture leaning on the walker and standing so far behind the walker. If Harvey can stand so far behind the walker hunched over like that, his abs and back are obviously strong enough to use a cane. He could also use a wheelchair and have somebody push him. Makes me think he is faking or exaggerating his sudden disability. Thanks
23
It's called due process. Innocent until proven guilty. Period.
11
Except also guilty in the meantime. It’s called common sense. Period.
4
@Larry D.: Common sense is what tells us that the Earth cannot possibly be spinning at over 1,000 mph.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
5
@Larry D. The reason the almost universal rule of "innocent until proven guilty" exists is that common sense doesn't really exist. Just look to yourself. A woman accused a rich man of sexually assaulting her and you unconditionally believe her based solely on newspaper stories. That is called "guilty no matter what the evidence shows."
2
Harvey Weinstein is entitled to strong legal representation. The prosecution should be just as strong on behalf of the victims. The judge should be conscientious about keeping the process fair and focused on the evidence.
10
I was surprised to her Judge Judy cite Me too in a ruling against a woman recently. She said Me too had done a lot of good but also a lot of bad for destroying due process. She chided the woman for using Me too as an excuse to not pay back a loan to a former male partner.
6
@Steve
Yes, there's an important discussion to be had. But seems self-evident the obiter dicta of a lawyer-judge turned actress ought to be inadmissable, even by the producers of a "fact-based" drama.
1
It is my understanding that he is having a trial and is not in jail. So how has he not had due process? May be good rhetoric but bad logic.
10
I guess I see those speaking to the defense of this attorney and Mr. Weinstein is how there is some unwritten blame put on the women. What I am referring to is that somehow the women had an interest in the relationship with Weinstein as a benefit (career or otherwise). Was this the case, yes, but isn't that always going to be the case for those in power? Should we expect less from Mr. Weinstein than we would of the Fast Food Manager interviewing for position of cashier/cook? If the powerful can hold the powerless at disadvantage, then we will see the abuses that we did here.
6
@Russell Smith: Perhaps that is Weinstein's narrative, but as a retired criminal defense attorney, I tell you that we don't buy into guilt or innocence. That is the jury's job. Our job is to present the evident that is most beneficial to the client.
I may be cynical, but I keep thinking Harvey is trying to look pathetic as a ploy to win over those who may feel sorry for him.
11
@JLarsen exactly correct, when did he start using that walker, and begin to look so disheveled and old? About the time the accusations began, and he was busted? I feel so sorry for him.
2
@JLarsen And Ms Rotunno is exceeding all expectations at painting him as the victim (of MeToo!). Wow
2
@Robert M. Koretsky
Those darn accusers!
Consider starting a Fan Club.
Honestly, I understand everyone has a right to a fair trial, but how can she defend this guy? The "MeToo" movement only brought the awareness to the surface, that is all. It is not a threat. Her priorities are all mixed up. Does she honestly believe that this guy is innocent? Ridiculous.
8
@Sally L
Do you believe the accused are entitled to a fair trial and an attorney? In our human fallible legal system, the jurors to weigh the evidence, examine the facts and determine guilt or innocence based on the evidence. Defense attorneys advocate for their clients not the prosecution.
6
A lawyer does not need to know his client is innocent. Just that he has a fair defense. Besides, the lawyers get paid first.
3
@Sally L: No, you do not believe that everyone is entitled to a fair trial or the American standard of "Innocent until proven guilty." You have, in your mind, convicted Weinstein based on a newspaper story and your own prejudices.
Well, in the end, it really is the person who can afford or retain the best lawyer that wins a court case. This is especially true in civil and family law, but we see it play out in criminal trials too.
We know why abused women don't speak up.
We know women do not get equal pay.
We know women will be brutally attacked in court when they complain of either.
Funny......she only seems to represent men. Guess she figures all men are innocent, and all women liars, or even if telling the truth, they shouldn't have worn that short skirt, gotten raped, and then been shaken up so very badly when giving initial testimony.
I'm sure it pays for the fancy clothes, and gets her the attention she desires. Justice? I doubt it matters..
15
It's a sorry state of affairs when standing up for The Bill of Rights and due process in America makes one a "contrarian".
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
13
What a joke Harvey....the walker was that Bill Cosby's idea.
6
"Donna Rotunno, who has steadily built a career defending men accused of sex crimes."
Wow, what a glorious achievement!
At least she makes this predator follow behind her.
2
@JM: You are assuming every person accused of a crime is guilty. Sorry but that is not American Law. That is the law in fascist countries and we are not one yet.
1
Everyone has the right to a legal defense. That said, this woman is revolting.
In the words of Kurt Cobain, who was rather vehemently opposed to rape:
“Hate me,
Do it and do it again,
Waste me,
Rape me, my friend,
I'm not the only one...”
3
Donna Rotunno is in it for the money.
7
So what. She's Weinstein's lawyer. What did you expect her to say.
This is not news
9
Is manipulating adult women into having sex a crime?
6
@Heleen Mees No
But in this trial "Mr. Weinstein is charged with raping one woman in a Manhattan hotel room in 2013 and forcing oral sex on a second woman in his apartment in 2006."
Can you see that this is a different thing altogether?
6
If you don’t sleep with me, you will never work in this town again. So she does, hating every minute of it. Is this a crime? I honestly don’t know. Where are the lines. Maybe it is extortion instead of rape. Yet statutory rape is a crime because the victim is deemed not legally to give consent. Maybe this is the right territory.
4
Did everyone notice Harvey's pity-me-please prop? Those narcissistic sociopaths are so theatrical.
8
As long as Weinstein doesn't violate Rule # 1, pay the attorney, up front, in green, Ms. Rotunno will zealously defend her client. Should the cash flow stop, girlfriend will be 'Gone With The Wind'!
3
MEtoo, as with so many other network movements, have made the transition from success to excess. Senator Franken and Garrison Keeler are two examples of the absurd position #MeToo beliers took. We are all poorer when fanatics swing pubic opinion.
5
This article is sexist. The gender of the lawyers has no bearing on this case though, obviously, Weinstein is cynically choosing a woman to defend him because her lens will presumably have weight with the jurors. “Oh well if a woman doesn’t think he did it, maybe he didn’t?” Plus when she goes on the attack, it’ll be less damning than a male attorney doing the same to alleged victims of abuse.
Same goes for the prosecution: hearing a female prosecutor describe the abuse will have more weight and seem less patronizing than a male prosecutor.
So this is the theatrics of the courtroom.
But for the Times to write an entire article about this and to suggest that the defense attorney is “unusual,” more unusual than say David Boise, is buying into a sexist argument about how female attorney’s ought to choose their cases. This article wouldn’t even exist if it were a male attorney. No one would bat an eye at a male attorney taking this case. Is gender does not define his work. Defend a Weinstein, great. Doesn’t make you an unusual man. Prosecute a Weinstein great (also, points for being an ally! Please!)
Weinstein is DESPICABLE, but in our system is entitled to a defense.
Why should a female criminal defense attorney be held to a different standard than men?
If you want to write about the cynical courtroom theatrics of these kinds of cases, great, but to ground the article in gendered assumptions is just sexism in a different frock.
8
Wouldn’t it be nice if one late night, alone in the office, she cornered him (still vulnerable from back surgery), forced him to remove his pants, and humiliated him? THAT would be the start of justice for a guy like this.
3
I wouldn’t be humiliated if a woman did that to me. Maybe there’s a business idea in there.
4
My son is a young manager at a large financial services firm in NYC. When I tried to discuss the issue of sexual harassment with him recently, he cut me off, stating unequivocally that he’d already decided to never be alone with a female subordinate, only socialize with and mentor male colleagues, to be extra guarded in all his interactions with women. In four years at a liberal west coast university, he never dated for fear of being falsely accused of sexual misbehavior. Thirty years ago, beginning my own career, I benefited greatly from the guidance given to me by my superiors, almost exclusively men. And, the friendships I fostered with my male colleagues were some of the most pleasurable and enriching of my life. I lament that my son can’t have that same experience of men and women working together, learning from each other, enjoying each other’s company. If women want to be respected and valued as equals in the work force, they would do better to support the notion that men should only be tried in a court of law, not solely by the court of public opinion (which often seems to care little for the actual facts of a case).
13
@Lisa
That is a very sad consequence after many many years of very real and devastating sexual harassment against women that was tolerated as business as usual. Hopefully, one day, a “Fox News sexual harassment” style workplace atmosphere will finally end.
3
@Lisa Do you believe that it is as a result of #MeToo that your son never dated in college, not socialize with women colleagues, and is extra guarded in his interactions with women?
I think that's laying the blame on #MeToo that should be placed elsewhere.
7
Sorry, but your son didn’t date *any women* during his four years of college for fear of being falsely accused of rape? As a formerly closeted queer person, that doesn’t sound like precaution to me. It sounds like a thin excuse. Not that everyone can or should play the role of Casanova, but I think blaming #metoo for one’s celibacy, whether voluntary or involuntary, is a stretch.
10
It seems to me that the large monetary awards women are sometimes receiving in these cases may be having the effect of attracting other women and their lawyers to file suits making exaggerated and unwarranted claims of abuse.
Serious jail time for the seriously guilty would, in my opinion, frequently be a far better way of deterring future offenders.
4
@A. Stanton
With all due respect, you seem to be in denial of how our justice system works. Those with the means pay to avoid prison.
1
As a manager of a large number of people, I have spent vastly too much time on HR calls with ridiculous "claims". When a married man doesn't want to go out with a single woman for coffee, that isn't "exclusionary". When rewards are given only to the 3 woman of a 5 member team because the project manager is a woman and openly expressed her desire to "give other women a leg up" without consequence for being discriminatory and sexist, we have gone too far. When my manager lost his job and career for what turned out to be not only a false claim, but one orchestrated by 3 women to "take over his position" and "...promote other women..." , we have to question if we have lost that which has always been a pillar of society : The obligation and moral imperative to view the accused as guilty until proven innocent.
12
@C. Noble
The sad thing is that there are feminists who would applaud all of the above, because... "thousands of years of history".
3
@C. Noble
Those acts are despicable. Sadly, lawsuits may have to reign in women as well as men for sexual discrimination and sexual harassment. I know of a case where a woman supervisor was fired for trying to force sexual favors with young men under her authority. It took months and many young men speaking up but she was fired.
1
@C. Noble
Those are some interesting anecdotes. Why should we necessarily believe them over the stories of accusers?
1
I believe the result of this case will have lasting consequences for the #MeToo movement. (I know, I just stated the obvious.)
It's very unsettling that Ms. Rotunno depicts a woman going to a man's office or house as "putting herself in any position she wants and playing victim." If men and women are purportedly equal, isn't it archaic to think that a business woman merely going unaccompanied to a business man's office or home is risky? Ms. Rotunno's strategy is victim-blaming in the most obsolete sense.
There are huge difference between the relatively more minor offenses that older men did generations ago (inappropriate remarks, gestures, flirting) when cultural norms were more primitive and the crimes that Weinstein and men like him committed then and now. While everyone's side of the story needs to be heard in every instance, in Weinstein's case I hope the NY jury won't be fooled by antiquated victim-blaming.
8
“You can’t just have it both ways and say, ‘I should be able to do whatever I want without consequences.” But when you brutally cross-examine a 15-year old rape victim and then tell her not to let the rape define her, aren’t you trying to have it both ways without consequences?
732
@Adrift
That is an excellent and insightful comment.
Well said.
30
@Adrift
I don't have the court transcript to verify the brutality of the cross-examination but here's the problem: If you believe that the wrong boy is being accused and the only witness is the victim then you have no alternative but to question the victim or you are not doing your job (otherwise known as ineffective assistance in NY, or malpractice). The victim may be too traumatized to remember the sequence of events, may have been given false memories by a poorly done police interview, may have picked out his picture from a highly prejudicial photo line up, or who may just want to punish this kid for being there and doing nothing to stop it. You probably have no problems with tough questioning on "Law and Order" because you have already been told that the accuser is lying. Reality rarely hands out the script beforehand (but cell phone videos are changing that).
26
@Alan, @Linda Jean: Ms. Rotunno did not say her client had not raped the 15 y/o child. She said his friend, who died in a car accident, and also raped the 15 y/o child, was "the leader."
18
One of the most notable bits of theater in this whole ludicrous charade is Harvey Weinstein's choice of walker. If you have or had an elderly parent, you know Harvey's chosen the budget version of the walker: the one that has to be lifted and pushed forward (painfully) with each step.
For those who need them, of course, these are essential. Harvey can afford and should be using the wheeled walker that we got for my mother.
Poor Harvey!
40
@Cassandra, as a recent recipient of a hip replacement, I noticed the same thing. I doubt HW needs a walker at all--seems to me he is just trying to look like a frail old man who couldn't possibly have done all those horrid things to all those women. And if he really did need one, with his money, he would not be using the bargain-basement kind you are issued at a public hospital or can pick up at thrift store!
5
@Cassandra Perhaps we can all chip in and buy him an upgrade.
OK. She believes in due process. Fine. When will she start believing that it's wrong to treat victims like perpetrators? Probably never, as long as she "wins" her cases. Just like every other amoralist in the U.S., the end justifies the means. We put too much emphasis on "winning" and not enough on decent human behavior. Join the Houston Astros, Mitch McConnell, and Donald Trump in the category of cheaters and liars who will do anything, no matter how low, to "win."
6
Defending Mr. Weinstein, against all odds, increases her future revenue stream. And you thought only men were greedy and manipulative?
7
@Plato You can say the same for Gloria Allred. Although I commend her defense of victims, she's also profited from the settlement via NDA game.
1
If there's any hope of social equality, this side must be paid attention, and we'll all be stronger in the long run. It may be understandable for women to derive a sort of acrid satisfaction to see sad, broken Harvey Weinstein hobbling to and from the courthouse on a walker, but it's a petty triumph. Much wiser to let the evidence speak for itself and determine his guilt or innocence that way. Allegations are not and cannot automatically be accepted as guilty verdicts.
The same way that Black Lives Matter lost credibility in its misguided efforts to illustrate wrongs suffered by African-Americans (behaving like out-of-control thugs is not the best way to protest being stereotyped as out-of-control thugs), #MeToo's fundamental flaw is resisting statutes of limitation on reporting alleged offenses (except in the cases of minors who must be given more leeway). Silence may be interpreted as assent, which is likely to occasion more instances of harassment or abuse. Both movements also rely too much on public opinion rather than facts, and victimhood (#PoorMeToo) rather than empowerment (#MeFirst).
Remember in the 1970s when it was about power and freedom? Black Power, Women's Lib, Gay Power, etc. If only we'd been able to keep that momentum going, rather than sink into premature complacence at the first signs of progress, most of the fix we're in now could have been avoided.
1
However complex Weinstein's relationship with woment were, it is clear he abused his power to induce many women into compliance, sex included. No one is doubting Ms. Rotunno's ability to defend his client, but she is conflicted by that interest, defending the indefensible.
2
@manfred marcus: It is clear to you based only on newspaper stories. God help the litigants in any trial where you are a juror. "Don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is already made up."
Any movement that strips away the “right to due process and a fair trial, and the presumption of innocence” is a bad movement — not just for those accused, but for everyone in the long run. Once the harmful, cheesy #metoo movement has passed into history, who will be the target of the next societal finger-wagging?
Mr. Weinstein may indeed be a creepy old guy (something that is not actually a crime), but he and anyone else accused of a crime, should be able to expect a fair trial. For his accusers who continued to maintain contact and possibly benefit from his influence, regrets after the fact do not change an encounter from a quid pro quo exchange of favors to an assault.
The fact remains that no one should be convicted of anything without properly gathered hard evidence — The Innocence Project has proven that. Mr. Weinstein, like others accused of this sort of crime, has already been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion. Whether or not he can be convicted in a court of law, he has lost the power and influence that allowed his creepiness to be overlooked. A prison term seems pointless.
9
Rotunno is right. Not all women tell the truth. The man is not always guilty. How can anyone who believes in justice not agree ?
12
Still mourning the abrupt resignation of Al Franken.
16
Rotunno is good at what she does, No question. But, unless she is completely oblivious, Harvey is a bad client. He is a low self esteem male, and a sex predator, who enjoyed easy access to women because of the business he was in. Full top.
Most sex offenders lurk around with nothing of any value to offer or and tempt their victims with.The stereotypical pervert, in a rain coat, standing in the dark, looking for a victim was not Harvey's m.o. But Harvey was really no different. Harvey tried to use jobs in movies as a lure or bait.
He would pounce when he got them alone, vulnerable and scared.
Harvey is a sex predator with the access to women most perverts just daydream about. He belongs in prison for the rest of his life.
@Harley Leiber: You assume that what you read in the newspaper or see on network TV is the truth. If it is it is purely by accident.
In the early 1990s I was falsely accused of sexually inappropriate behavior by a new female receptionist who'd been trying to flirt with me. As a gay man, I simply ignored her.
After a thorough, embarrassing internal investigation I was cleared and she was moved to a different building. I doubt that today I'd be given the presumption of innocence I was afforded then. More likely I'd be "canceled" and my career derailed.
I agree with Ms. Rotunno that #MeToo is dangerous. I wonder if Al Franken would also.
16
Wasn't "The Paper Chase" set at Stanford?
Harvard.
3
@Prodigal Son: With parts shot at UCLA.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
1
Actually, none of the 1973 film was shot at UCLA. Neither was any of the resultant tv series, which was shot at USC, where I got my MFA, which trumps your blazoned PhD, at least in this case!
Good for her. Now how about some equal justice for fathers? I see countless decent fathers (mostly of color) stripped of their parental rights by greedy mothers. Ultimately it's the children who suffer.
7
Mr . Weinstein is not a sympathetic defendant, by appearance or mannerism. That does not mean he is automatically guilty; Ms. Rotunno has her work cut out her. I would hate to be a juror in this trial. Will there be any real evidence here, or will it be a he said/she said type of affair with a sheer preponderance of the she/saids determining the outcome? Maybe he's a really bad guy marching to his due, or maybe he's a victim of "piling on". Anybody who thinks that there aren't some free riders here is whistling past a graveyard.
4
He truly may be depending on those orthopedic devices and likewise a piano might fall on my head before the end of this comment. You just never know.
4
Epstein was a pervert, and Weinstien is a public example of extreme male behavior, Hollywood and America. If the word predator has taken on a new meaning, so be it. Whether it's the industry or some creeps parents, there are many others to blame. It isn't what they did, as much as the message to future generations on what is acceptable as American culture changes for the better.
2
@Alexia And the young women Epstein paid thousands of dollars to on a weekly payroll, they were forced at gunpoint? Did they wear chains? Now they want to be paid more? Or do they bear some responsibility of their choices in life? We all do, such is life. Bring back common sense.
1
She thought the teenage rape victim's story "wasn't great"? What does that even mean? She should let us all know when she finds a rape victim with a "great story." Perhaps she reserves that category for stories that include a video and signed affidavits documenting the crime.
7
@ARNP
Even that isn't good enough. See the case of Canadian public radio star Jian Ghomeshi. He had a nanny cam literally record his abusive interactions with women, and the tapes were not allowed as evidence in Canadian courts. Why, you ask? Because his lawyer was successful in classifying them private medical information as part of his therapy.
@ARNP
Believing rape victims would interfere with her revenue stream.
1
Did she tell Harvey a walker would boost jury sympathy?
3
Why is it that so many Of these men end up in wheelchairs(Manafort), canes (Cosby), and, in this case, a walker? Actually, I know the reason—to appear weak and vulnerable. It’s beginning to make pretty angry.
7
@Kb
To be fair, Manafort walked just fine at his trial and there was nothing wrong with him medically. While in jail, he had a heart attack.
2
@Kb To be fair, Cosby became legally blind and has been using a cane for years. He was a regular guest on the Sunday afternoon talk show Like It Is years ago and he was having problems with his eyes back then.
It would have been more interesting to see Weinstein try to make his case with a male attorney instead of using "identity politics" by hiring a female one. I guess Harvey is trying to show us all how woke he is.
2
MeToo IS dangerous and devolved quickly to the level of a witch hunt. And once the pitchforks were out, even a lewd joke at the office instantly made a man the next Harvey Weinstein or worse. It is now nothing more than a summit from which people can signal their unassailable virtues, while downing a bracing dose of righteous indignation (ounce for ounce the most addictive substance on Earth).
Careers, and lives, have been ruined by petty and false allegations and these are in turn written off as collateral damage by the frothing social justice warriors. It all serves to cheapen and obfuscate the ordeals of those women who have suffered real, actual sexual abuse; they are increasingly difficult to hear above the din of the rabid throng.
This case proves it: Ms. Rotunno's main leverage in defending this obvious sexual predator is to discredit the #MeToo movement, as the climate is ripe for backlash against it simply because it has totally discredited itself. I expect that this case's being viewed through the lens of #MeToo will work in Mr. Weinstein's favor, and that his accusers will not get the justice they likely deserve because of it.
6
“Having voluntary sex with someone even if it is a begrudging act is not a crime after the fact,”
All that fancy education and Ms. Rotunno STILL can't grasp the idea of power dynamics. Sad.
5
As to the power dynamic of a woman voluntarily having sex with a man - that man should be fired and called out publicly, but it does not automatically make him a criminal who should go to prison. I took that to be her point.
Sorry, what did some of those women think when Weinstein, a completely unattractive guy, known as a creep and a meanie, invites them up to his room alone? That they would sit and play cards while seriously discussing their careers? Come on. If so, then they were hopelessly naive. We’re they born yesterday? And I’m not exonerating him. But when I know there are sharks in the water I don’t go in.
Make the best assumptions about Ms Rotunno's expressions of genuine concern based on her observations and conclusions as to how women's rights groups conduct themselves.
But then consider: '... She put the teenage girl through a brutal cross-examination, because “her story was not great.” Afterward, she asked the prosecutor to pass a message on to the girl: “Tell her I had a job to do. I don’t want this to define what happens to her.” ...'
Would be interested to have a sense of just how "not great" the teenager's story was for Ms R to have felt the need to "brutally" cross-examine her.
Would like to be reassured that she didn't eschew a less-than-brutal tack because, in her experience and judgment, a practioner had best go for the jugular right out of the box, because tip-toeing around is usually ineffective and a time-waster, before finally having to destroy a purported victim's credibility. And likely aggravating the damage to her psyche.
The "had a job to do" note suggests Ms R herself couldn't in her own mind honestly supply such reassurance.
2
H.L. Mencken said, “Injustice is relatively easy to bear; what stings is justice.”
What Mencken meant was that we don't like to see due process for people we hate.
In Gideon v. Wainwright, the supreme court guaranteed competent legal representation for everyone, the poor and the rich. Rotunno's obligation is to give Weinstein the best legal representation she can. Why is this so hard for people to accept?
3
Ms. Rotunno is doing her job as his lawyer and representing him the fullest of her powers. Attacking the movement is one of the few arguments she has to make since his actions are so despicable. It is standard operating procedure to have an aggressive female attorney for men in an attempt to draw attention away from their client.
3
@rosy
Lawyers - male as well as female - need to be sure they're not effectively brutalizing purported victims by their techniques, including cross-examination.
I believe purported victims below a certain age do not have to testify in person.
Suggest that age limit and probably other factors be reviewed by bars for possible augmentation, before requiring them to be confronted - possibly nose to nose - by an "aggressive female attorney."
What everyone is leaving out is the fact that Harvey Weinstein is a very attractive man. He’s attractive, because he had the power to give someone world wide fame and prosperity. Most people would be extreamly grateful for even the opportunity for such a career. The fact that he would hint at this opportunity to procure sexual favors is not particularly ethical, but did he break the law if his accusers were not already employed by him? Didn’t they all have the ability to turn and walk away? He didn’t tie anyone up or hold them against their will. Yes, he hired an expensive lawyer, but let’s all agree, if he was dead broke, and had no insurance, these charges and complaints would never see the light of day. This was about money from the beginning to the end. “Me too,” here, is more about, “Show me the money."
7
As with Clarence Thomas before him, this attorney is planning to take advantage of the fact that once you work for one of these powerful men your career is defined by them. You have to continue to court their favor and make them happy because they will be the first call any future employer makes for the rest of your life (sometimes because the interviewer wants the chance at access as well). Anita Hill was not "using" Clarence Thomas, her path was bound to his forever and if he decided to he could destroy any of her future job prospects with a single lukewarm endorsement and essentially end her professional life; not to mention the type of vindictive bile Harvey Weinstein would spew about anybody who wouldn't give him a massage. Weinstein threatened to kill careers if he was not serviced, and he made good on those threats, and everybody knew he would make good on those threats, that is not "maintaining a relationship" to use and profit off the poor misunderstood rapist, it is a hostage situation.
1
I'd like to know what the author of this piece means by a "brutal cross examination". That leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Pointing out inconsistencies in an accuser's story is standard practice for any criminal defense attorney, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's "brutal." I have a hard time believing that a lawyer of Ms Rotunno's caliber would brutalize a 15 year old girl on the stand and risk alienating a jury.
6
Just curious, do you think the walker was her idea?
2
It will be interesting to see if a female attorney puts the accusers on trial.
@Baba She is already running a smear campaign in the press, so pretty obvious thats her strategy.
2
If you strongly dislike the way the culture is evolving, that's irrelevant to the facts of the case. Hopefully any jury with half a brain would ignore this, and stick to looking at evidence for or against the defendant.
1
"We can’t have movements that strip us of our fundamental rights." Is one of the fundamental rights the right to bully and force people into actions they have no good way of avoiding? So the powerful can bully the weaker and lesser with impunity because that is, I assume, their 'fundamental' right? What a disgraceful country we live in these days.
2
All I can say is: “Bravo Ms. Rotunno, Bravo” ! MeToo has gotten out of control. Justice should be done but ruining men’s lives before they even get into the courtroom is a perversion of justice.
5
The patriarchy will never be "smashed" without the patriarchy's assent. For better and worse, males average about 50% greater muscle mass. Lastly, humans are animals. Only appeals to reason and conscience, turned into better behavior and laws, have any hope.
And this applies to women, also, who in their defense machinations may sometimes engineer unjustly.
Ms. Rotunno’s argument seems perfectly reasonable to me, given the case against her client. I see a tough lawyer doing an unenviable job—and one that I personally would not have the stomach to do. Yes, she’s getting paid handsomely for it. But does that make Rotunno a traitor to her sex? I’m not so sure...
If one of the goals of feminism is that women be treated equally in all respects to men, then women like Ms. Rotunno shouldn’t be viewed as villains any more so than male criminal attorneys are. By the same token, women ought not to be viewed as helpless victims first and adult humans second. Which I think is Rotunno’s point.
3
I know several criminal lawyers, all of them men, who specialize in defending clients accused of sexual assault. Some are ethical professionals who rightly believe their clients deserve a zealous defense. They go after flaws in the prosecution's case, what the law says, reasonable doubt. Others are frank misogynists. They relish attacking vulnerable, traumatized victims.
Male : We are having a business meeting in my hotel room, come on up.
Female: Ok , at what time.
This is the only thing that needs to be change.
No more to little girls " oh you are a princess"
Better " you're a warrior, a wonder woman" and if a men wants to mess with you, you are going to fight him for your body and safety one punch a time.
1
The right to competent legal counsel and self-defense? Yes. Those are cornerstones of democracy. Building an entire practice on the defense of men accused of sexual crimes against women? I find that self-serving and disgusting. That's right up there with being a mob lawyer or learning the tricks of the trade in defending pedophiles.
The irony is that this has been done by someone whose mantra is fending off the "phony, abused-woman angle" by playing... "the woman angle" on behalf of her male clients. In the instance of Harvey Weinstein I hope the jurors will stick to the facts and ignore the designer wardrobe of his legal team.
517
@Roberto Mob lawyers are owned by the mobs they work for, so they are in a different category. The other examples you are taking, and the criticism you are leveling at Ms. Rotunno, belies the fact that you actually don't believe that everyone deserves a defense in court.
There's an air of vigilante justice in these comments. "We believe in [presumption of innocence, right to a defense, right to confront accusers, right to a trial by jury of peers, right to a speedy trial, etc.], BUT..."
Either you believe in that system of justice or you don't. You don't get to say "people accused of crime X" don't deserve the rights of other people accused of other crimes. And if that's what you believe, you have to tell us what system is more fair.
45
@Roberto : If juries were capable of ignoring fancy lawyer tricks, there would be no market for fancy lawyers.
The article is a bit unclear about Gloria Allred's part in this. It almost implies that she will be working with the prosecution, but it doesn't say it. My guess is that she represents them in civil cases, and so has a stake in the outcome of the criminal trial. It seems unusual that she would participate in the criminal proceedings, although she might be advising the prosecution team.
7
@Roberto Agreed. Most of us couldn't afford the lawyers that the wealthy have for 2 hours of billing time tops. The more money you have the less likely you are to be sentenced or even go to trial. If there is a trial the sentences are usually less severe for the wealthy because they plea bargain, and end up in Club Med for the rich.
21
As a retired Clinical Psychologist, I agree with those who see the "Me too" movement as harmful on both an individual level and on a social level. I spent a long career attempting to teach clients, women and men, to take responsibility for their behavior, helping them become aware of the logic of individual responsibility. The victim role in life, weak and pitiful, devoid of strength or joy, is one to avoid.
10
@Sewanee
Glad you are retired then. These woman are victims of crimes.
3
Rotunno is saying what she needs to say, for money, to defend her client. And fair enough - it's all fair in the courtroom and in the court of public opinion.
But it doesn't make a single word that comes out of her mouth respectable or true.
2
#MeToo is more about culture and public perception than criminal law. The vast bulk of people sanctioned by it have lost their reputations but none have been sentenced to jail without a trial.
Civil law provide remedies for people who are injured personally or financially by others spreading false information about them. It's called libel if you write it and slander if you say it. However, proof that what was said is true is a defense.
In the beginning of the article, she seems to be using a civil law defense in a criminal trial. Near the end, when it talks about her actual trial strategy, it says she intends to show that the alleged victims were using Mr. Weinstein for their ends by having sex with him even if they found it unpleasant. I wouldn't be surprised if she later argued that they complained only after they did not get what they want from Mr. Weinstein.
If she pulls this off, the public perception will be that the trial is about the ability of good looking women to advance their careers by having sex with powerful, homely old men, and whether reneging on such a deal is a civil offense. For the criminal defense, she could claim that Mr. Weinstein believed that that is what the women were doing, whether it was true or not.
The jury has their work cut out for them.
2
Everyone has rights and rights to opinions like it or not. This is America.
1
I wonder if she would litigate this case for free, on principle?
1
@runget
Who knows?
Do you perform YOUR job for free, "on principle?"
Presumably the lawyer in question has to put food on the table like the rest of us.
4
@runget
What does that matter? Would you do your job for free?
1
In my opinion Men who victimize over 80 young women (they are not all lying folks) deserve to lose their false reputation, should lose everything they own and should be imprisoned for life. Public opinion is right sometimes.
They still deserve their day in court like anyone else.
Any lawyers who represent them lack morals, courage, honor, are misogynists, and are greedy, no matter what simple or elaborate rationalizations they present.
If they all declined he might be left with the lawyers who have less experience, the lawyers who represent people with less money, and the lawyers who are not as skilled in manipulating the truth. Maybe he would get true justice. Jail.
2
This article totally neglects a fundamental power imbalance operating in the Weinstein case. His wealth and power allowed him to intimidate, smear and threaten his victims through an army of surrogates for decades. And in one case, he managed to co-opt a NYC prosecutor into dropping a case in which he was recorded admitting to the crime.
Harvey Weinstein’s high-priced, high-powered defense lawyer complaining he can’t get a fair trial is laughable, given the outsize power rich men like him have to corrupt and manipulate our legal system.
5
Ms. Rotunno is a lawyer who gets paid big money to defend her client. I have a hard time seeing that as "free" speech.
I give it about 2 years before Rotunno is the new lead opinion anchor for Fox.
Also I expect to see Harvey as Trump's new (Acting) Secretary of Agriculture before the year is out.
2
@Thomas
Nice attempt at making this political, but Weinstein is a lifelong Dem and was a big fundraiser for Hillary.
4
As an attorney who has both prosecuted and defended sex cases, I endorse Ms. Rotunno’s perspective. Equality under the law means everyone is entitled to constitutional rights. “Me too” took a wrong turn when it decided the motto should be “believe women” rather than “listen to women.” We can never achieve equality absent responsibility for our decisions, behavior and autonomy.
1287
@H J. Mattes
#MeToo was originally a tabulation of the percentage of women subjected to rape and harassment. Unfortunately, it almost always happens behind closed doors and has no witnesses, so the hashtag made it clear that the low percentages of belief were related to gender discrimination rather than occurrences of misconduct.
Ms. Rotunno's gender makes it easier to justify deciding against women because there is an implicit belief that a woman would not defend a man that she believed to be guilty of what is essentially a crime against a woman.
Your comment that "We can never achieve equality absent responsibility for our decisions, behavior and autonomy." reeks of victim-blaming. No one should need to "achieve equality".
77
@H J. Mattes
Have Weinstein himself speak to the media in person.
10
@H J. Mattes
Well-said from the comfort of a smoking jacket (cigar-in-hand) and leather armchair next to a warm, crackling fireplace in a wood-paneled office lined with oak bookshelves and a library of legal volumes.
Point of fact... "we can never achieve equality" absent equality. And in a world where men (such as Donald Trump, Mitch McConnell, and Harvey Weinstein) overwhelmingly control the levers of power we are a long, long way from that.
91
It is quite telling that Rotunno asserts that an accused perpetrator's right to due process is more important than the right of victims to justice under the law. We need both, but Rotunno seems to believe it's either/or.
4
due process is indeed more important- rhis is what the constitution says
2
@gus
You seem to conveniently ignore equal protection.
2
Attorneys are not hired to have opinions, ethics, integrity, or politics. They are hired and paid to WIN the 'game of justice' no matter the cost or the tactics or the precedent. Don't be distracted by the Show. Follow the facts and the rules, new or old, to come to your own conclusions.
We are in new territory for women that they have not experienced in thousands of years. The rights and respect of/to their own body is the issue. The battles will be messy and long.
3
We pre-suppose that our system of legal representation is immutable. We assume that defense lawyers will say or do anything short of illegal to get their guilty clients off and prosecutors, while held to a higher standard, in fact are not bound to the concept of justice but allowed to place career and expediency before justice.
The result is a fundamental disgust and mistrust in the entire system. It allows us to hate all defendants (and defense attorneys) because we 'know them to be guilty' and to allow Trump to avoid going on the record because we 'know' that prosecutors play games.
Time to change the game - Prosecutors should be held to a standard of justice by the bar and open to civil penalties and defense attorneys should similarly not be able to make spurious or unfounded arguments in court just to defend the guilty. We do not have a function system of justice or one that we can be proud of
3
"She put the teenage girl through a brutal cross-examination, because “her story was not great.” Afterward, she asked the prosecutor to pass a message on to the girl: “Tell her I had a job to do. I don’t want this to define what happens to her.”
A real class act.
7
@Liz
If you had been falsely accused of a crime that can send you to prison for decades, I rather suspect you'd have a different opinion of the concept of "vigorous legal defense." In fact, you'd probably want no stone un-turned if it were your freedom online. And rightly so.
I know zero about the merits of the case referred to in the article, so, sure, maybe the accused was as guilty as sin. But maybe not. That's the whole point of the presumption of innocence -- the idea that the burden is on the government to prove you're guilty (the burden's not on you to prove you're innocent).
If our society loses that. It's lost everything. And yes, maintaining the presumption of innocence requires allowing citizens accused of committing crimes to mount the most robust possible defense their lawyer is capable of delivering.
5
@Jasper
"Our society" has already lost when lawyers have to engage in theatrics to do their jobs.
The jobs of lawyers is to uncover the truth from people who testify, not to assassinate their character and then flippantly say "I didn't really mean it; it was just my job".
1
Lurid headlines sell newspapers. That's not going to change. Online movements make people feel like they are not alone. Again this will not change. The law and the process of justice has also not changed. You must prove your case and show someone guilty of the charges beyond a reasonable doubt. Accusers should have to prove that what happened really happened. Roughly or gently, They must prove it. If they cannot their case should be thrown out. I'm glad there is someone who realizes that men deserve the same rights as women, the presumption of innocence.
4
She's very courageous until it happens to her.
10
@WLA
And she's to be condemned by one and all until it's one of US who is accused by the government of committing a crime punishable by years and years in prison. Then, believe you me, the skilled defense attorney becomes a saintly Atticus Finch.
For what it's worth I think the man in question is guilty of terrible crimes and SHOULD die in prison.
But that's not something that should be decided by my opinion. Or yours. Or the public's. It's for a jury to decide, after it's been shown the evidence, and after the defendant has mounted a constitutionally-protected defense.
273
@Jasper, when she interviewed for her law firm job, perhaps her hiring manager told her they would have to have sex and be intimate as part of conditions of her favorable employment.
@Jasper It's not going to be our opinion that will decide it, no matter how many tears you shed. There will be a jury. Just leave it to them. We're just discussing it in a NYT column comments section. Um, Jasper, you can say "the man in question is guilty of terrible crimes and SHOULD die in prison." or you can say we can only reach a conclusion after evidence, defense, jury etc. You can't say them both.
It's not necessary even to pick faux sides here.
3
I don’t think she’s wrong—or right. Weinstein clearly abused his power terribly, and whatever happens in the trial, powerful men (and women) everywhere are re-thinking such behavior.
But look at what happened to Aziz Ansari. Like many women I absolutely cringed at “Grace’s” account, because she took no responsibility whatsoever for her own behavior. She appeared to be sticking with the date and undressing for her own reasons. He wasn’t her boss or a client, he wasn’t forcing her, he called an Uber for her. What was she thinking?
We can’t convict people based on gossip alone, or ruin their lives based just on morning-after regrets; we can’t go along with a “date” and then cry foul later. Report, report, report; evidence is essential.
And we can’t go on with the way things have been, either.
32
@S Turner
What happened to Aziz Ansari? Nobody prosecuted him for a crime, nor was he convicted of anything. He was publicly called out for being a bit of a pig and his career suffered. Millions of women have endured far worse. Check your focus.
2
@Marta His career was irrevocably altered and his show on Netflix was cancelled, allegedly because of a bad date where the woman could have left at any time, but clearly liked the idea of dating a celebrity. I don't think he behaved admirably, but like many men and women who read the story, it seemed he paid a very high price for a situation where the woman could have simply said no thanks and left or at least been clear about her boundaries. To suggest since he wasn't criminally prosecuted (for what?), he paid no price is not true.
4
@Sparky
The original poster used the word "convict" AND used Ansari as the explicit "but" in contrast to Weinstein.
We are reading an article here about a man who EIGHT-SEVEN women have accused of rape, assault, ruining their careers, and a variety of other actions that have resulted in ongoing trauma. #metoo tells us that this kind of behavior is just part of the landscape for large numbers of women. And is rarely prosecuted.
But somehow we need to stop and talk again about Aziz Ansari's career. Because his "suffering" is a balancing caution we should 'be considering carefully right now?
No. They aren't equivalent.
It appears that the best advocate for women who believe they are being sexually harassed is the woman herself, not some attorney.
To physically assault someone is a crime, but if you're asked to perform some sexual action to keep a job don't do it.
5
@Barb
"To physically assault someone is a crime," - This what this case is about.
"but if you're asked to perform some sexual action to keep a job don't do it." - This is NOT what this case is about".
How many people can keep this straight?
4
Rotunno argues that Weinstein's accusers used him for "anything they could." Perhaps so. But that's not illegal, and no one is accusing them of breaking any laws. Rotunno is promoting a false equivalency, of course. Sexual harassment and sexual assault are crimes. If I rob you but also agree to give you a ride to work, does that absolve me of the robbery? If I break your leg and you choose not to report it until later, after you've persuaded me to repair your roof, am I not still liable for busting your femur?
2
i’m not a lawyer, but it seems to me that these cases would get hazy and it would be much harder for the hurt party to seek justice
The mob. There has always been the mob. They used to have torches and pitchforks. Today they have smart phones and social media. More dangerous today, as the mob can multiply in seconds and with the stroke of a few keys. Add the stoking of an inflammatory press, and it gets worse.
The mob loses sight of the notion of rights and due process. It's the nature of the beast. The beast wants to be fed. Period.
Accusers in any sort of crime should be heard, and taken note of, but they also need to be vetted. The vetting process is not disbelief, but corroboration....or not. To not do this leaves us all to the mob.
Nobody wants that.
10
The legal case may go one way or another. Rotunno has a responsibility to do all she can to defend her client. I probably wouldn't like her and certainly don't like her apparent attitude toward feminism, but she is doing what the adversarial system demands.
Justice, however, does not hinge on the outcome of this high profile case. I'm met Weinstein, and the picture of him accompanying this article gives evidence that he is debilitated and broken. He has lost his business, his reputation and family.
He may deserve all of that. But it is no longer possible that history will judge that he got away with being a misogynist bully.
The legal case will be decided on its merits (I hope). The court of public opinion has already sentenced Weinstein.
102
@Barking Doggerel
He is still more wealthy than you can imagine and that was the whole point of his business among other things. He will not have paid a price for these crimes I think he is guilty of, until he has paid out every penny he has and will have for the rest of his life. Also he is not broken. That walker thing is an act.
34
@Barking Doggerel
That's routinely the case, for both alleged victims and alleged perpetrators. Remember OJ Simpson? Historically, women's reputations, relationships, livelihoods and mental health have been destroyed when they come forward to seek justice. Even when they aren't accusing anyone of anything illegal, women who dare to acknowledge sexual activity are routinely vilified and blamed for the ramifications faced by their male partners (think Monica Lewinsky). I agree that alleged victims should be listened to (rather than automatically believed without question), but alleged perpetrators should not be shielded from the harsh light that ferreting out the facts requires.
16
@Barking Doggerel He is still a wealthy rapist with an army of legal defenders who managed to sexually violate women for the past 30 years. He got away with nearly everything.
23
The entire patriarchal project has been one of stripping women of their rights. Non-disclosure agreements strip women of the right to a trial, of their right to due process in a court of law. I believe these agreements are illegal and unconstitutional yet they exist. They are essentially bribes paid by a perpetrator to a witness to cover up a crime. How can that be legal?
4
The walker is a great idea. I suggest an oxygen tank as well. What about a dialysis machine?
16
Presumption of innocence and the right to examine the evidence against you are not simply legal requirements: they are moral and ethical imperatives. This is why they should apply in other settings than a court room, such as the work place and in colleges. Imagine your child’s future, or your family’s livelihood damaged, if not destroyed, by a false accusation. Preponderance of the evidence is called the “feather” burden by plaintiff’s attorneys: the slightest puff of wind to tip the scales is enough in a civil case — no substantial weight is required. Clear and convincing evidence should be the burden for colleges; civil trials about money will probably always be the “feather” burden of proof, and insurance can offer some protection of assets. Weinstein has the benefit of the beyond a reasonable doubt standard, but given the publicity campaign against him a fair trial is a legal fiction.
6
"She pointed out that both women maintained relationships with Mr. Weinstein after the alleged assaults."
This is the definition of an abusive relationship. Spousal rape exists, workplace harassment exists; people can't always get away from their abusers or rapists.
6
@JS He was the big boss. Has everyone forgotten that he headed the studio that these actors worked for?
4
@dannyboy
Not true. He was head of the studio, but actors don't work for studios. They get hired for individual pictures, and these women were trying to get hired.
2
@GMooG Just to clarify. These women needed to maintain a relationship in order to get hired for individual pictures.
1
she is a courageous woman.
7
@nonpersonage naw. Greedy opportunism isn't courage.
1
being paid for your work doesn't negate courage. police officers are paid, soldiers are paid. the point is, the atty stands up to the mob. she isn't afraid of public ridicule. like John Adams representing captain Preston and his men
1
She's right.
Every accused, guilty or innocent, however repellent the crime, is entitled to representation and defense.
Guilt is for juries to decide, not the press or an on-line mob.
Weinstein may be guilty. Not every accused is. That's why procedural protections are built into the Constitution and the laws of every state.
20
@Jonathan Katz
That's all true, and I have serious problems with public shaming by mobs that don't give the accused the benefit of the doubt. There are very good reasons that we have "guilt beyond a reasonable doubt" standards and no longer have people wear scarlet letters.
At the same time, however, without pubic anger the system will not change and it will continue to provide cover for those who abuse women in the work place.
Whining about Me Too won't make it go away, although reminding people of how pubic shaming has been abused to destroy the innocent in the past may help calm some of the participants.
If you want to quell pubic anger, make the system respond to women that come forward with allegations with compassion and real investigations, instead of shaming and ignoring them. Me Too is a symptom, not the disease.
Meanwhile, while corporate media is wringing it's hands over virtual mobs yelling at people on the internet, and Obama complains about "cancel culture," there are actual mobs that actually beat people up on the streets, sometimes killing them. The Left base might be rude, but the Right base commits 90% of hate crimes and 70% of mass murders. Nothing cancels culture like a mass shooting.
Keep a sense of perspective.
Using your voice to make change is Constitutional. Using violence to make change is terrorism.
Choose a side.
1
Put Weinstein and even defense counsel aside as his alleged actions and her courtroom tactics cloud the only issues that matter.
Either we have bedrock rights in this country or we do not. Either we have a criminal justice system that works for all, poor and not just rich, celebrities and the common person, or we do not. In order to have any hope of a fair system, a presumption of innocence and a right of due process cannot be set aside on the altar of whatever movement is the flavor of the month or era.
We have juries (though they can be waived by defendants) to determine the facts. Part of that fact-finding process is cross-examination. Testing the credibility of a witness is essential to the process. It can be done without bullying, but it must be done. No defendant gets convicted without the prosecution proving guilt by that high bar of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
21
But it does not work for all. It works if you have enough money. Do you doubt she is being paid at least a million for her work on this case this case?
1
@Unworthy Servant
I agree with all that, and have serious concerns with the mob mentality of some people. It is not only the Left that declares people guilty without trial, by the way. When a cop shots a suspect, how many people automatically assume they deserved it?
But before trial, there has to be an investigation and an arrest. If the system is refusing to investigate or arrest men that abuse women in the work place, then someone has to do the work of fixing the system.
Those of us that believe defendants are innocent until proven guilty need to make sure that the system is doing what it was designed to do.
3
Everyone is entitled to a good defense.
Ms Rotunno's argument claiming an assumption of guilt is based on deception. First of all no one has been found guilty in a court of law, so there is that deception.
Then there is the unspoken implication of her assertions, that the general public has taken in the reporting on the matter and decided Weinstein is probably guilty. Fact is a lot of the press indicates they have for the most part decided he is probably guilty, she has no idea what the gen pop thinks. In any case she is trying to get people, listening to her make these assertions about assumptions, to assume and conflate the press's tone with a court verdict that has never taken place.
There is also the matter of the people she will select for the jury being able to make their ruling based on the facts introduced in court not the reports in the press prior to the trial. Her assertions imply that jurors she has not yet selected are not able to discharge their duty honestly.
4
Oh yea “Having voluntary sex with someone even if it is a begrudging act is not a crime after the fact.”
This is a description of rape using gaslighting technique to get us to infer a lot for her and allow the word "voluntary" to alter the facts of what rape actually is. This is a version of the old fashioned old world idea that "you wanted it because you survived it" blame the victim practice. The only legit rape is the one the woman dies trying to stop. anything else means you wanted it.
http://www.startribune.com/denied-justice-series-when-rape-is-reported-and-nothing-happens-minnesota-police-sexual-assault-investigations/487400761/
2
I agree.
I have always said that I think #MeToo, and other copycat efforts like it, IS dangerous - not because it seeks to redress wrongs, but because it seeks to indict and convict in the public forum before the long established legal and judicial processes have time to act. It encourages people to put a scarlet letter on a person long before anything is actually proven. The results have been nothing short of HEINOUS (witness, for example, Senator Al Franken's precipitous "apology" and problematic self-removal).
I also find #MeToo's (and other copycats) premises flawed as far as proposing to (once again, ad hoc) dictate rules re: things like sexual consent and related issues.
Obviously, this is a much longer discussion - nevertheless, there it is.
12
@Jake : Well that happened because of the gross failure of the justice system where about 1 in 1000 rapists are convicted.
3
@Jake
The fact is that explosive allegations of ANY kind put a scarlet letter on a person.
Michael Jackson was never convicted of pedophilia, and neither has Woody Allen. OJ Simpson was never convicted of killing his wife and her friend.
Regular, non-famous people are dismissed from jobs and denied opportunities all the time because of their social media profiles or unfounded rumors that other people spread about them. This has been going on since gossip existed, and has absolutely nothing to do with MeToo.
No one is entitled to a sterling reputation, least of all rich privileged people like Weinstein.
As for your problem with "dictating rules re: sexual consent", that too is a problem you can solve yourself: don't be intimate with people you don't trust.
It takes quite a bit of entitlement to assume that YOU get to set the rules ad hoc all the time, and the other party has no say.
People (men) like this think so highly of themselves that their money and position in business should automatically mean they have a right to mess with anybody they like. That pendulum swings both ways now - as it should.
3
All the commentary mentioning pendulums: one thing about them - the higher they have been pulled/elevated/prolonged to one side, the higher they travel on the other side when no longer constrained.
I don't think it seditious to believe the stored potential from years-upon-years of imbalance is at least as big an impetus as MeToo et al.
13
@TomO
The point is precisely that the pendulum was traveled far the other way, knocking quite a few women out of opportunities.
If you behave decently and professionally towards people, that goes a long way.
5
The fact that she is an ultra strong woman and strong willed enough to defend the creep Harvey is about as feminist as it gets.
43
@Nature Seems like she's more motivated by her ego than by feminism.
7
@Nature Or maybe she's just a lawyer.
5
@M.S. a person can be both a lawyer and a feminist. They are not diametrically opposed from one another.
"As the #MeToo movement grew, she embraced the role of contrarian, arguing that a public rush to condemn men accused of sexual misconduct and assault was shredding reputations and careers without due process."
It disturbs me that a lawyer thinks that you have a right to due process before your career or reputation takes a hit.
Either she's lying or she didn't even attend 1L constitutional law class. I wonder which it is.
10
@C’s Daughter
SOPHISTRY. Reasoning faulty. Guilty of Oversimplification: setting up either/or as only possible explanations, when others are overlooked.
6
But isn’t that exactly what the attorney here is doing?
2
I do believe Weinstein deserves a defense---but I would prefer if Ms. Rotunno defended Weinstein on the facts of the case--rather than diverting attention to the excesses of the MeToo movement. But let's be candid Ms. Rotunno is not working with a whole lot of legal tools right now, so, the only tool left is political.
45
@Amanda Jones Exactly. This is what every good defense attorney does. Great old line: If you have the facts, you hammer on the facts. If you have the law, you hammer on the law - if you have neither, you hammer on the table.
10
@Amanda Jones Well neither is the prosecution. Remember, the only reason any of these prosecutions are happening is because of MeToo. I think the question is why they wouldn't of happened without it. The same prosecutors (Vance/Illuzzi) wouldn't have bothered if this was 2016.
@Amanda Jones Last October, I served on the jury of a criminal trial in the very building Weinstein is being tried in today.
It was a relatively minor offense, and as the defendant seemed quite poor, I assumed his attorney was a Public Defender, although it was never specifically specified. The stunts his lawyer pulled were shameless and I thought terribly transparent, although he did get his client off for lack of evidence.
So I can only imagine the fireworks the jurors on the Weinstein trial are going to see. I assume they need a unanimous verdict which, in our very modest case, was not easy to get.
She is a fantastic lawyer and I wish her well with exposing the political hoax called ‘Metoo’.
13
@Paul And so it goes for Ms. Rotunno. And so it will go for her for the rest of her career. All the PAUL's of this world will fall at her feet while any man, woman, or child of either sex who as suffered a sexual assault or sexual harassment will cross to the other side of the street to avoid even the slightest risk of contact.
8
@Tony's mom Please do not enter children into this conversation. Pedophilia is a completely different issue, and an abhorrent crime under ANY circumstances. Sexual crimes between adults have their way of falling outside the strict lines of guilt, intent, desire, force, etc.
1
@Paul Is a "political hoax" the equivalent of a "witch hunt"?
2
Yes, everyone should get due process and the best money their money can buy. Isn't that how justice works in America?
Individual cases have an impact on the conversation about gender relations, but they cannot be the entire conversation. Change needs to be systemic - and that should be, among other things, about equality in justice and avoiding attacking the victim.
10
Greed wrapped in self-righteousness, masquerading as justice.
36
@Steve Leeke
Unclear which side you are referring to. We should take out the money factor to individuals, offering alleged victims only what is appropriate for lifetime medical and psychological purposes only, and relegate the rest to a legal defense fund for victims. With less money incentive, the testimony is more credible.
4
@She
Do you believe that all victim compensation should be limited to medical and psychological expenses?
Or just in the case of rape?
1
Bravo Ms. Rotunno! Our legal system calls for the right of defense. Ms. Rotunno is that in spades. I am glad that finally there is more scrutiny over MeToo especially from more level headed women that understand that there will always be excess and plenty of casualties along the way of the MeToo movement's accusations.
Focusing on Harvey Weinstein makes for an easy and comfortable conversation. There are many other lives and careers more silently ruined in academia and sports coaching over false and unsubstantiated allegations. The schools would rather fire those accused for no cause than support their own employees and risk losing tuition money.
8
@Casual Observer You must know that Mr Ms. Rotunno is attempting to get the focus on the MeToo! movement as a real problem, and not Mr Weinstein's rape indictment.
But I see from your comment that she's got you.
1
It really doesn't matter who or what they're defending, lawyers like this -- and I include Gloria Allred, Avenatti, and Dershowitz in this group -- all have one thing in common: the relentless pursuit of personal wealth regardless of morals, ethics, or the damage they are doing to society. They'll say and do anything to exploit their clients for good cause or for bad, so long as they make a few million bucks in the process. Justice has nothing to do with it.
36
@Brannon Perkison
Yep, and Gloria Allreds own daughter actively tried to smear one of weinsteins accusers when she wouldn't shut up. It was only when the tide had incontrovertibly turned against him that she suddenly found her morals.
1
@Brannon Perkison
Defense lawyers are still better than prosecutors who are clearly above the law. Cyrus Vance sat on what is now believed to be incriminating tapes of Harvey Weinstien. His office also tried to downgrade the pedophile status of Jeffrey Epstein.
3
Good lawyers are indeed motivated by their reputation and opportunities for future business. They are professionals. That's not inconsistent (in fact, it's perfectly consistent) with their obligation to zealously represent their client. Her principle -- that even the most heinous accused is entitled to due process -- is hard to argue with.
29
@mh12345
Have you heard even one person say we should get rid of due process? There is a way to defend heinous criminals that is not a slap in the face to victims. But attorneys like Rotunno love the attention and the chaos. It's more important than personal integrity.
2
What I'm wondering is if Weinstein's lawyer will allow him to testify. I realize defendants don't have to testify but if Weinstein is innocent of all of the accusations against him, why wouldn't he testify? Whether people like it or not when a defendant chooses not to testify juries take notice.
7
@susan
His lawyer may consider that he has an unlikeable personality, or one that cannot be reined in (like a Trump). The notice by the jury has to be balanced against the potential damage posed by certain witnesses, who cannot come across as sympathetic to anyone. Of course his lawyer will not allow Weinstein to testify.
3
@susan Whether or not the defendant testifies, the onus of evidence is still on the prosecution to make a case that proves the defendant committed a crime beyond a reasonable doubt. In fact, many defendants actually get acquitted simply because they kept their mouth shut in court.
1
Ms. Rotunno is self-serving plain and simple.
When she speaks of the #Metoo movement going too far, it is only to serve her clients and her paycheck. She's playing a game and playing it well.
And, how dare Ms. Rotunno brutally cross examine a minor and then send her a note to say, basically, "Don't take it personally."
That child will more than likely take that cross examination to her grave as Ms. Rotunno takes her checks to the bank.
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@Kelly
Children are constantly being used in custody and divorce cases. "If you want to stay with mommy, you need to tell them daddy touched you there. Lets practice this until you get it right."
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You mean now they have an excuse to be unfair? They must be so relieved!
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@Kelly
As a trial lawyer for 44 years, I think Rotunno is great. That note is a little strange, though.....
The woman wins cases, that's her profession. I got hired because I won cases. It's a world of combat and strife. I took my lumps, and I handed out more than I took.
Let the heathen-- and the media-- rage! They aren't responsible to anybody. The people who defend those who have everything on the line-- they know what responsibility is.
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What hourly rate is Weinstein, or other paying clients, paying?
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I’m a feminist, yet I totally agree with defense counsel here. This was a very weak case for the grandstanding NY DAs office to take to trial. It will almost certainly fail and make it harder for real rape victims to come forward and succeed.
Weinstein was a pig and he deserves to be “cancelled” and these victims deserve compensatory and punitive damages, but there seems no credible evidence in this trial that he committed criminal rape. Harassment yes (which is not a crime but a civil claim), extortion maybe? But rape, no.
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It most likely IS dangerous to me who deserve it!
Harvey Weinstein is dangerous. That much is clear. And his attorney is correct that the MeToo crowd can be destructive as well if its members overstep and create a world where all men are the enemy.
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@John Jabo What percentage of sex abusers are men, and what percentage are women?
I'll wait for your answer.
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She’s Harvey Weinstein’s lawyer. Getting paid the big bucks. What else is she going to say?
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@Two Americas
Make no mistake about it. Every "victim" is also looking for a payday.
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@nydoc Exactly. The world needs to stop thinking that the likes of Gloria Allred and David Boies are defending accusers because they have such good in their hearts. The gamble is that a big payday & national recognition is oncoming.
Ms. Rotunno said. “Having voluntary sex with someone even if it is a begrudging act is not a crime after the fact.”
What about the testimony of a dozen or more women?
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@Steve
Depends upon whether or not those women caved in to Weinstein's cloying pushiness and drooling, allowing what used to be referred to as "mercy......."; or voluntarily went ahead in hopes of obtaining something which they didn't ultimately receive (part in movie, etc). I f they feel remorse ex post facto, and characterize themselves as victims afterwards, it doesn't necessarily mean they are victims. Rather, they may be weak willed, unless his pushiness gave way to forcefulness. Of course this shouldn't apply to minors of either sex, and I believe Rotunno regrets how far she went interrogating the 15 year old. Not everyone who calls herself a feminist subscribes to the victimhood stream of this movement, which currently prevails, affording grown women little agency of their own. Lack of equal opportunity is the goal of some; or if sex is used as a quid pro quo to get into a university, or get ahead in the media business or any business.
@Steve 80 women have come forward about Weinstein.
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@Steve
Having voluntary sex with a dozen women is still not a crime.
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Why does the Times frame everything in terms of identity? Why does the Times assume that since Mr. Weinstein’s attorney is a woman she should automatically believe in the tenants of the me too movement? Isn’t it misogynistic of the Times to posit that a woman should not think for herself?
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@The Woodwose
Don't believe it's misogyny so much as misandry which is au Courant. Readers should take a look at some books from the early 1970s, such as "The Manipulated Man" 1971 (Esther Vilar) to gain more perspective of dialectic so can reach synthesis in understanding that men need help to some degree as well, in other areas, such as feeling open to express sensitivity, crying, and being the person expected automatically to take out garbage instead of doing the care taking. Of course world has changed a lot for the better in this regard, where even gender fluidity allowed, without the shaming that occurred in Boomer generation.
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Amazing what-who money can buy.
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Give me a break with Weinstein and his walker. Being charged with a crime apparently causes many defendants to suddenly develop disabilities (recall Paul Manafort on trial).
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@Harry F, Pennington,nj I believe the walker is related to his recent back surgery.
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@Lola
Thanks, didn't know that! I have had two back surgeries over the years and never required a cane or walker, but I am aware that some people have had such a need because of the severity of their condition. But, there is no denying that optics are part of the "show" in criminal cases.
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@Harry F, Pennington,nj Of course!
she's making bank on him,, good for her..
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To many of us, Mr. Weinstein's accusers are an other-worldly tribe - beautiful, rich, well-groomed. Their "out for a coffee" wardrobe costs more than our annual clothing budget. They seem rarified, with imagined power and agency that we do not feel. They do not look like victims.
Mr. Weinstein has chosen one who "reads" to be of that tribe to defend him. The intended calculus? She is an insider and she says the accusers are lying so she must know.
When I started my career in the early 1980s, I had to be stronger, smarter, more clinical ... and beautiful and impeccably dressed. I had to prove my right to be the only woman in the room. The equivalent of "backwards and in heels" for 1980s finance. I see echoes of this in Ms. Rotunno and her "Tell her I had a job to do" apology.
I have no doubt that the case did define what happened in the future to that young girl. Sexual abuse powerfully defines what happens to the victim. It occurs when there is an unequal power dynamic. And despite the apparent power of Mr. Weinstein's accusers, he had infinitely more power over them.
Ms. Rotunno is arguing that by even coming forward and telling their story, these women are stripping Mr. Weinstein's right to due process. The implication is that they should stay silent. But they too have a fundamental right - to be heard.
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Yes, there is a whole lot going on here in this article that could generate another five years of sociological research on Power. Once all the theatrical props are in place, like wardrobe, the conversation the jury thinks they hear is only a small part of the package. Theatre in law. Once you hear all the coaching, costuming, makeup, acting that goes into the law profession...then you know, as an ordinary citizen, how powerless you really are and how vulnerable one is when silhouetted against the Kavanaughs of this world.
Interesting that morality is a taught value based on reflection. It served Elijah Cummings well in his need to be tough, strong and forceful. When we are about to die, do we get all dressed up and practice our lines?
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@Ask Your Questions
I hear you, with several women friends who were among a small band of females to attend L.S.E. in the early 1970s, and some American friends who blazed the trail in investment banking in Chicago and New York in the early 80s.They were denigrated and preyed upon, excluded from forays to the Limelight, etc. but they were strong willed individuals, who were savvy about danger signals and when to exit a scene. Admittedly, as a teenager working for a summer alone in New York, a fashion designer attacked me because I foolishly failed to exit the dinner party when both the hosts left to allegedly buy something they forgot, where a physical fight ensued.As I rushed out to the street, a great taxi driver screeched to a halt, offering to take me to the police, with the Frenchman running after shouting he had not sexually touched me to the driver. I admitted he had not, failing to understand that assault was also a crime since I had started it by slapping him. And later that same summer, a law student from NYU invited me to allegedly meet his parents who lived in an apartment overlooking Central Park, yet when I arrived the place was empty. He had borrowed a key to get in from a Real Estate friend. I learned by then to exit immediately.
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One of the most neglected aspects of this is that everyone in Hollywood knew Weinstein was who he was. He didn’t just bully women into sex he bullied everyone in the business. Yet...They allowed him to reign supreme. In other words they enabled him.
Other heavy weights could have collectively brought him down rather than allow him to be the abusive bully he was.
We see this everywhere, currently with our president. The enablers are just as responsible morally for the damage.
We as a culture and society need to honestly self reflect.
Ms. Rotunno talks a good game with personal responsibility regarding the women but doesn’t seem to apply that edict to her client. They too need to be called upon for their choices.
One of the foundations of misogyny is to always lays the burden of moral decision making (ie to hold the line and say no, resist or be passive) on females especially regarding sex. Males are expected to pursue, dominate and take advantage of an opportunity.
That juxtaposition seems ubiquitous in human consciousness.
Why, is the question? Different disciplines will give you a different answer, socialization, biology etc.
Regardless, we to help both men and women create a new paradigm for sexual engagement. One where they are both heard and understood. One where they have the power to protect themselves from assault and false accusations. The dialogue needs to start somewhere. Me too has pushed that needle for dialogue and is an important cultural movement.
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It was some time ago when I had to take a Criminal Law class. Most of the students were working NYC Police Officers. The professor, also a legal aid attorney, assigned us Supreme Court decisions to analyze and to write commentary. After being assigned a particular decision where the court held for the prosecutor, an outraged police officer spoke up and said, " That's not fair! That's not justice!" The legal attorney attorney paused and then replied: " We are not here studying justice. We are studying law and sometimes the two don't meet."
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Excellent piece. NYT we want more like that!
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Ms. Allred said. “I don’t believe it is appropriate to go after a victim on the stand with venom.”
If Ms. Allred and the prosecuting attorneys aren't prepared for a vigorous defense by Ms. Rotunno, they will surely lose.
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I don't know but this picture reminds me Darth Vader and the emperor palpatine.
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Always interesting to see perps, in this instance, Weinstein, going to the "hunched-over-a-walker" visual aid in an effort to draw sympathy and appear weak.
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In a way, she's everything a feminist could hope to be. Strong, independent, capable, recognized for her skills and expertise - not her sex. Puts principal above "how it looks". And her accusers say she's puts her career and recognition above principals. I say not, a lawyer has a duty to represent her client whether guilty or not.
Anyway, lady's you wanted to have it all...this is the price you pay.
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Dude, “the price we pay?” The whole point is there shouldn’t be a price to pay in order to go after your dreams and pursue your career - not for this lawyer, not for the actresses involved, not for you, and not for me.
The thing about #metoo is that it got caught up in the sensational/ sexual part and not about the power part in which a powerful person puts someone under their thumb just because they can. What they spend their power on is less important than the fact that they abused it.
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So, her tactic is to call out inconsistency in an accuser's account of a traumatic event. Isn't it well established that we don't make very good memories while experiencing trauma? How is this still an acceptable approach to questioning victims?
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@Amy Without memories, there is no case against Weinstein. It is based entirely on memories.
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When the only evidence of a crime is the witness’s story, and the jury is the sole decider of the witness’s credibility for truthfulness, then inconsistencies in the witness’s story become reasonable doubt for the jury.
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@amy, you have zeroed in on exactly why this kind of case - where there is no physical evidence - is so difficult to prove. If a traumatic event leads to a memory that is potentially unreliable, the testimony (unfortunately, but by definition) is immediately in doubt. And while it is painful - and may seem unfair - to see someone who has gone through a traumatic event be put through a series of questions, there really is no alternative. Someone testifying has to be questioned, otherwise truth tellers and liars would both be believed equally at face value.
The more difficult scenario is someone who truly believes they are telling the truth, but who remembers details inaccurately. As you mentioned in your comment, traumatic events are often difficult to remember accurately. The attempt to achieve a level of justice in cases like this without any physical evidence is very difficult and both sides deserve to be treated fairly and justly, otherwise the entire process collapses. Unfortunately, it’s the best we can do.
All of that said, the idea of prevention is important, so people can avoid being in this situation in the first place. It seems to me that there were many men who knew about Weinstein’s treatment of women in the movie business and should have done more to stop him a long time ago. Hopefully, one result of the metoo movement is that it will help to prevent situations like this in the future and to hold those accountable who continue to commit reprehensible acts.
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The predators and their defenders are trying to frame the debate as "women want to be unequivocally believed 100% of the time so they can lock men up" where what women are asking is that we be heard and considered and not rejected out out hand which would be a step up from not being believed at all, ever. Which is essentially where we were before the MeToo movement.
All you have to do is see the Supreme Court hearings (as well as a number of comments hear alluding to all the reasons that women can't be trusted) to see that the women were simply dismissed as unbelievable and what they said had no bearing while the man could be taken at his word.
MeToo is not about locking up all the men, it is about being heard and being taken seriously as people.
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@Marie Thank you Marie. I agree.
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@Marie As a father of two teenage daughters, I could not be more adamant about protecting women. But the mantra, "I believe women" is not asking to be heard and considered, but believed without question. That is not a just system or helpful for anyone.
These are tricky times, but we must come out of it where women are taken seriously with their claims, but men are not convicted simultaneously with being accused.
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@Sparky These are not tricky times but a tiny beginning to a long awaited reckoning. Let's hope neither of your daughters are exposed to Weinstein's or even milder forms of abuse. Then it will be very clear to you which way the deck is stacked. All of these comments from the men here make me think "The gentlemen doth protest too much."
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Men in power have been able to abuse others and lie about it for as long as we have records. Sure, lawyers have a duty to protect their clients, no matter how evil the client, but she is working for a liar and predator. He is not having his rights taken away from him, no matter how much he whines about not being allowed to be privileged any more.
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@David your response it literally what she is talking about. Please re-read the 6th Amendment.
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A necklace reading "not guilty" is not dressing well.
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