Never gonna happen with all the regulatory capture by corporations.
5
Great going, New York Times editors! Maybe doubling the minimum wage won't hurt anybody, maybe it will toss a few million people into unemployment---but not editors in high priced New York City! Tough luck!
There is a way that the minimum legal wage could be increased even more than this: couple it with a guarantee that the federal government would hire everybody who can't otherwise find a job, paying them the new minimum wage plus decent fringe benefits. Of course this would cost taxpayers money, if the dubious statistical studies purporting to prove that increased minimum wages don't increase unemployment proved to be incorrect.
I would give such statistical studies, which seem to contradict basic microeconomics laws, about as much credence as I give people claiming to have invented a perpetual motion machine.
For further details on how this slight variation on minimum wage increases could work see: https://www.newsmax.com/paulfdelespinasse/congress-conservatives-liberals/2017/07/25/id/803653/
5
Our corporate controlled government is guaranteeing strong profits through worker exploitation.
I have much more respect for people who actually work for a living than the self centered aggressive greedy people who are dismantling America for personal gain.
12
Can you hear me rolling my eyes from New York?
1
Yep, start your own business and you will discover your own capitalistic nature. You will be less likely to reduce er, “redistribute” your profits to pay higher wages to employees. Why? Because you want to remain in business and your employees bore none of the financial costs and risks to owning and operating a business. You will ignore the NYT editorial board and commenters, and pay the lowest wages possible to make a profit and stay in business.
6
Republicans are responsible for the cruel and self-defeating federal minimum wage we have today. In Republican economic theory the minimum wage is a handout for losers who can't compete in the market place. They further believe that raising the minimum wage is bad for businesses. The opposite is true. Dozens of large cities across America have raised their minimum wages - while Republicans roared that the sky was falling - with no ill effect on businesses. Employment did not go down. It's one thing to be cruel, and Republicans are masters of cruelty, but to be stupid enough to believe that raising the minimum wage to $15 in a timely manner is bad for America, is just anti-American.
5
Double is an embarrassment. Triple would be too low.
3
Another thing to consider is that there are some workers who may never move beyond minimum wage jobs - for a variety of reasons, often not their fault.
How much do you suppose these folks get from Social Security when they retire? Actually, they don't get to retire - at least not voluntarily. Is there anywhere in this country where a person can live on $400/month? (OK, with SSI, it's $700/month, at least in my part of the country).
Increasing the minimum wage also gives people a little more hope of being able to survive when they become disabled or elderly. This is clearly worth the investment.
6
Why increase the minimum wage when there’s a Trump deficit that needs to keep getting bigger?
You address only half of the problem. Businesses will raise prices, people making more than minimum wage will demand more to address the price increases. The minimum wage earners will be back where they were before - not earning a living wage.
2
Minimum wage in Quebec: $13,10. Free healthcare, public insurance for medication, free schools, affordable universities, generous family allowances, subsidized daycare at $8,25 a day, parental leave, unemployment insurance...
Go North young man, to the True North, strong and free.
9
I definitely support raising the minimum wage.
However how do you account for cost of living differences say between San Francisco and rural Oklahoma?
I am in high-tech and make 50% less than if I worked in Silicon Valley but prefer the quality of life I have.
5
In NZ the current government is committed to bringing the minimum wage up to a living wage over 3 years, we are two year in and the argument against it have been trotted out; our unemplyment rate are now very low and have been droppping as wages increased. When money goesto the poorest, it is spent on food and other necessities in their local communities, boosing local buinesses. When the wages are kept low, these people rely on benifits and suppliments from the government. People health and welare droppes and children suffer, often leading to long term issues for society. I believe that it is societies reponsibility to support the most vulnerable so we can all benifit from a healther and more cohesive society. A higher minimum wage benifits us all.
8
This is sheer economic madness. The minimum wage was never meant to be a living wage. I worked several minimum wage jobs at $1.65 an hour in the 60's, and I was happy to do so during my teenage years. That wage was meant to establish a base for entry level workers into the vast marketplace of jobs, from which they could rise based on their own merits. Anyone who expects to live or raise a family on the minimum wage is delusional. Unless workers actually get the experience, training and education to be promoted above the minimum wage jobs they start in, they are just fodder for the government dole. It takes hard work, so get to it, and stop demanding more money than your job is worth.
12
Say you run a business, perhaps a factory. The business uses electricity. It costs $.12 a kilowatt hour. If it cost $.06 per kilowatt, you could make more money. Perhaps at the going rate you cannot even cover your costs. But the electric company has a rate and you must incorporate that cost into your overhead and you cannot decide what your feel like paying. You can do the same without making serfs of your workers. If you cannot, there is something wrong with your model. Perhaps your selling price is too low or perhaps what you want to do is not possible. Even though you might make a go of it if your employees were slaves, that’s not legal. Follow the dots. You can’t achieve your dreams at the expense of those you employ, no matter what they did in the days of Dickens. You may own a business but that does not mean you are more entitled to achieve your dreams than everybody else; it’s not a magic pass. We’re all in this together.
8
News Flash: there aren't enough "good jobs" to go around.
Minimum wage is not the major problem. The larger problem is that companies have fought unions and, inexplicably, workers have shunned unions. Without any collective bargaining power, workers don't stand a chance.
While one could argue that raising the minimum wage is a form of collective bargaining, it is an extremely blunt tool that can't account for specifics such as varying cost of living from area to area, varying skill requirements, training vs part-time vs full-time, tips, etc.
The far left also has to realize that a low wage to an American is an excellent wage to an illegal immigrant. Those that call for open borders had better be prepared to compete with people who are content with far less.
The far right has to concern itself with being too parsimonious and driving the electorate towards blunt and inefficient legislation that drags down our entire economy. See France in the late 18th century or Russia in the late 19th and early 20th century.
3
The facts have proven that the arbitrary $15/hr costs jobs and reduces the income of those it professes to help. The data are indisputable! Nobody is going to pay $15 for $9 worth of work.
8
I agree that the federal minimum wage must be increased and $15/hr seems like a good number. I would like to add that those of us on Social Security would be greatly benefited by a significant minimal benefit increase to keep up with housing prices. Something in the range equivalent to a $10/hr job, in other words roughly $20,000/yr., would seem appropriate.
1
Maybe we just have to accept that some industries aren’t viable. Large companies in the supply chain give poverty fees to subcontractors.
3
Can someone please explain to the Left, that people won’t get paid $20/hr if it happens, they will be fired.
5
@Alex Thankfully for us here on "the Left", there's ample evidence that your claim is false. Repeat after me" minimum wage increases don't lead to higher unemployment.
6
San Francisco employment has *definitely* been affected by minimum wage laws. The San Francisco Chronicle and other local media outlets have run several articles on the increasing number of restaurant closures in San Francisco due to increasing costs, including minimum wage. Here is one, from ABC Television's SF affiliate:
https://abc7news.com/food/local-restaurant-owner-explains-why-so-many-san-francisco-eateries-are-closing/5580162/
4
Rent.
5
This is a well rounded, thought editorial.
The "Chicago School of faulty economic thought" states that wages are paid according to "marginal productivity", and based in that half truth, and fallacy: "Ergo", if you increase the minimum salary you produce unemployment. Hilarious.
A domestic employee cleaning the house of a person makes the minimum salary, if they double it, will the household fire the worker? Maybe, if they chose to live among the garbage in their house, and it is not likely; same thing for cleaning crews, and many other menial jobs: they are important nd nobody will fire the workers.
5
Those who explain how raising the minimum wage will hurt are never the people earning the minimum wage. As to servers, I have never understood why I have to pay the owner for the food, and then pay his/her employees.
3
Let the congress who keeps pushing this off, get by on $15 hour and see if that's good with them.
Other countries treat worker wages as part of the cost of doing business. People don't want to live in working poverty and the only ones complaining about the costs are making $100's an hour.
5
Begin with correcting the minimum wage to match the current federal cost of living numbers. Individual states with very high costs of living can legislate a wage to reflect the state's cost of living above the federal cost of living standards.
Now is the perfect time as we approach full employment.
Doesn't it make more sense to index the Federal minimum wage to regional differences in the cost of living in order to create a minimum standard of living as opposed to a minimum wage? A given $ amount commands a very different amount of resources in different areas of the country, and will similarly have a different impact on low-skill employment levels in different areas. This seems rather obvious, so it is surprising that the editorial board of the NYT fails to recognize this.
3
Your earn what you are worth. Don’t make enough money? Get a better job. If you can’t, then you need to make yourself more valuable. Go back to school. Learn a trade.
It’s not the job of the business owner, or the world for that matter, to provide you with a living. It’s his/her job to make money.
7
A business that hires labor has to pay that labor a living wage.
A business that subsidizes itself by having workers that draw on any form of Government support is not a viable business.
Non viable businesses in a real capitalist marketplace will not, and should not, survive.
Legislating a minimum living wage is in support of real capitalism.
There will be job losses as marginal businesses, previously supported indirectly by Government welfare programs flowing to the business owner through the artificially low cost of labor, exit the market. But these businesses are not economically viable in the first place.
Culling these uneconomic businesses can only result in a healthier marketplace.
If your business cannot feed and house your employees, from the wages that you pay, then the wages are unrealistic.
And ... your business is not viable without those indirect Government subsidies (Food Stamps and etc.)
So the argument that raising the minimum wage will cause small business losses is fundamentally flawed.
9
@ProGrowthCapitalism It IS the job of a business owner to provide its employees with a living, if they want employees. As for the big advice about "go back to school or learn a trade," workers still need to make a living while going back to school or learning a trade -- and there are only so many hours in a day.
7
Newspaper reporters need a 10-fold increase in salary!!!
@Larry Could be. But we can't help. Talk to your publisher.
This is called the teenage unemployment act. If the minimum wage is raised to $15.00, it will bring more adults into the workforce, and certainly attract adults who are looking for a second job part-time. But $15.00 for a 16-year-old kid (with notable exceptions of high-cost areas like NYC)? Horrible idea.
3
@Erik: $15 an hour is still not much for a teen trying to save for college or who is expected to move out when they're 18.
2
@Erik I'm not sure 16-year-old job seekers really outnumber the adult unemployed.
4
In depressed areas, young teenagers have already figured out that some paltry, minimum wage, dead-end burger flipping job available only a few hours a week is a stupid waste of time compared with the more lucrative, if short-lived, work of selling illegal drugs... and no time-consuming and boring study is required in advance. That’s what employers compete with.
2
What is the point of working if you do not make enough money to pay for your housing, food, transportation to your job, health care, etc.? One argument by people who do not support a higher minimum wage is "I work hard for my money. People in minimum wage jobs do not work hard enough to deserve higher pay". To those people I suggest you work for a month at McDonalds and see how hard you have to work.
8
@CO Smith: Agree. And people in non-professional positions are not only paid much less but often treated much worse.
2
A too low minimum wage forces a worker to live the low status of a peasant. This has always been my maximum rage. Poverty begets a willful wicked web of suffering that sticks to, entangles, and messes up every opportunity for a person to enjoy a decent and dignified life. The Federal minimum wage for far too long has been dehumanizing, obscene, and despotic.
5
For a corporation, this reassurance sounds like it came from a freshman who failed both Econ and Psych 101:
"For most companies, the bill is relatively small, and it can be defrayed by giving less money to shareholders, or by raising prices."
Oh, sure, obtuse, generous shareholders will sweetly say, "Sure, we don't mind earning less. And we certainly won't invest in another company where we could earn much more."
And customers always respond to higher prices by thinking: Well, I like paying more money for something I could get for less elsewhere.
As a minimum wage-earner most of my long life, I cheer increasing wages, but the nonchalant advice from this article seems naive at best.
Hey, NYTimes, howsabout you doubling all your employees salary? Just give less to shareholders and increase your prices. Easy-peasy.
9
"Double the Federal Minimum Wage
State and local governments are proving that higher minimum-wage standards are good for workers. Congress should take the lesson."
Is double the minimum wage the current wage paid to NYT's minimum wage employees?
2
It should be a crime to pay anyone $7.25 an hour - $15,080/year. No one can survive in America at $15,000 a year. And then those politicians have no problem handing out $18 billion in welfare to America's farmers - Trump's socialism payments.
3
@Henry
There are millions of Americans that earn $7.25 an hour. They are not dying en mass in the streets. The are indeed surviving. Why would it be a crime to pay someone the minimum wage? That's why it's the minimum...You make no sense
3
The Neo-Liberal Capitalist economic and political agenda is based on keeping corporate profits as high as possible and keeping workers' wages as low as possible. And keeping the government's role in the economy to a bare minimum -- except for actions (like military spending and privatization) that benefit large corporations. For some strange reason the NYT Editorial Board has decided to take a stand against this political and economic agenda -- at least on this one issue. And the only reason they can give for this reversal is that the evidence suggests that the Neo-Liberal ideological claims are false (and always have been!).
You need to study what happened in Portland, Ore. It wasn't pretty for workers.
4
Nobody who works full time should be poor. Having said that, having a kid or two you can't afford is the surest way to insure your pay won't keep up with your spending.
I listened to a "planet money" pod cast yesterday on NPR. It seems supply and demand actually works with labor as well. A fast food place manager was interviewed who said he had had to increase his starting salary to get and retain workers, to 13$/hr. The "market place" is at least somewhat responsive. The democrats risk much of those benefits by advocating for bringing in more low skill immigrants.
4
@Al huh?
Increase HIS starting salary to attract others?
But it can't happen if the Democrats insist on offering other people jobs too?
@Al
The problem with the kid argument is that it ignores the current reality of social assistance. The fact is that if you're single, child-less, and poor person you get the least assistance and are the lowest priority for things like affordable housing in safe neighborhoods.
Poor people continue to have kids because 16 years goes by really fast. You not only get additional government benefits and better housing, but an additional income earner once the kid turns 16+. That can be an enormous help if you're a single parent. The challenge of course, is being a good enough parent so that the kid keeps their nose clean and realizes that education is the way out of poverty, not selling drugs or having additional children of their own. Two-income households are vital for that.
1
1) Higher minimum wages can hurt small businesses, as small business owners - who took the risk, and work long hours, also need a living wage.
2) Not everyone who works needs a living wage. My daughter was making $20 an hour as a student who we were supporting. Where there are people who work minimum wage jobs that need a living wage, let's address that. But treating every worker as needing a living wage will decrease the number of successful small business startups.
2
@Cyclopsina Of course.
Why didn't we think of it sooner?
Let Cyclops go thru the list and determine which people deserve the living wage and which do not.
5
The economy actually HAS improved in the last several years.... because of all the states and localities that have already raised the minim wage in their jurisdictions.
The irony here is that these actions, bitterly opposed by the GOP may actually help them remain in office.
It is incredibly frustrating to discuss the minimum wage issue, as the people who are opposed to a raise will consistently argue "This raise WILL damage the economy, because of increased layoffs, businesses going bankrupt, prices rising, etc, etc. ) Emphasis on 'will'... as they never say "We DID see these economic damages in 19xx, and again in 19yy and also the recession in 200*". And why is that? Because there is absolutely no evidence that any of these feared outcomes has ever occurred as a result of a raise in the minimum.
3
It is a moral catastrophe that a working person can hold one or more full-time jobs, but still not earn enough to support himself or herself (much less support a family) while owners of capital have so much money that they simply have no meaningful ways left to use their wealth other than to increase their wealth in a sick competition with other billionaires. This dynamic is just going to get worse as we find new and innovative ways to replace labor with non-human capital (e.g., McDonald's kiosks, robot manufacturing, artificial intelligence for office functions, etc.).
However, the exactly wrong solution is to make human labor even more expensive than it is now. That will just exacerbate the economic incentives to automate labor functions more quickly. The better solution is to increase the value of human labor so that it can compete with non-human automation. So, how can we do that?
First, we need to come to terms as a society that uneducated or low educated labor is just about over in this country. Advances in communications and shipping technology have made it too easy to offshore to other countries that will tolerate a level of poverty that we never would. Even if we totally illegalized offshoring, creating technologies that can replace uneducated labor (or minimize the number of humans required for a particular job) has become incredibly easy.
We need to devote our resources to developing the talents of our workforce to compete with machines.
3
The current minimum wage is a disgrace, it should be based on the federal poverty level X 150%. I can hear `the moaning and wailing from the "Small Business" owners who claim it would drive them out of business.
I've worked in small businesses, at least a half dozen that qualify for the term "Small Business". At every one, I saw money flowing under the table, and not a trifling amount.
I worked at one company where my boss, the owner, took his car through the car wash weekly. The car wash cost $10.00, the car wash owner rang up the cost of the wash as a $400 detailing and split it with my boss.
One of his other tricks was to invite an employee to dinner, sit down and chit-chat until his real guests arrived and the employee was dismissed - the whole cost was billed back to the company as a "Business Expense" - it ran to about $1000 a week.
I ran into another guy who used a single credit card account for personal and business expenses. He never reimbursed the company for his personal purchases. I added up the non business expenses and it was runing in the middle six figures per year.
So, my point is that "Small Businessmen" can and should pay their employees a minimum wage, based on the local economy and the cost of a livable apartment and food for a month.
There may be some honest small businessmen out there but, everyplace where I saw the inside financials there was cheating on income and taxes and impoverishing their employees.
5
@William
Besides a few exceptions, the net cost of living is just about the same everywhere. What differs is the distribution. What you're not paying in gas/car costs in one place, you're paying in food/housing costs elsewhere.
Corporations pay $0 in taxes and pay little in wages, forcing the citizenry to subsidize their exploited workers. Enough is enough.
4
Why specifically, are we stopping at doubling the minimum wage? Why not tripling? Sextupling? If we can mandate that the poor no longer be poor with the flick of a pen, why not do it now?
Maybe because disconnecting the economic value of a worker from their salary has been shown to have mixed to negative results? You can't demand a business pay an employee more than they bring in and not expect either economic externalities or firings to occur. Let's figure out why some people have trouble building economic value instead of trying to fight basic laws of economics.
4
The Editorial Board was entirely correct when it wrote in 1987 that there should be no federal minimum wage. It is an unalterable rule of economics that increasing the price of a commodity (i.e., unskilled labor) reduces the demand (i.e., employment). The only exception is where the would be buyer has no alternative. Walking into any McDonald’s readily reveals that employers do have alternatives to overpriced unskilled labor, in the form of kiosks. The Editorial Board’s attempt to discount these kiosks by observing that they are appearing even in states that have not increased the minimum wage is disingenuous - the leadership of McDonald’s reads the papers (and listens to the promises of politicians) and can understand that increases in the federal minimum are coming, and they are preparing to reduce employment accordingly.
Even those left wing economists who wrongly assert that minimum wage increases depress hiring only to a “limited” or “minimal” extent acknowledge that such increases cause reductions in employee hours. And, most importantly, neither these economists nor others who advocate minimum wage increases take account of the obvious unintended consequences: the very real harm to those who, as a consequence, see their hours reduced or are never hired at all. Those are the real, unheard victims of what some cavalierly describe as the “minimal” or “limited” negative impact on employment that these ill-considered minimum wage increases cause.
3
Nowhere near enough, $15 per hour minimum
1
Calling for a $15 minimum wage a la Bernie in 2016?!??! Buy, did the NYT miss the ship backing Clinton in 2026. You gave us Trump.
2
Studs Terkel wrote a book called 'Working' 1974. He pointed out that many white Americans were willing to suffer low wages than see black American's earn more. Look at the map, hardcore Republican states have the lowest wages. Laissez Faire capitalism backed by bigotry and snobbery prevail. A warehouse employee in China has a better purchasing power than many in America. Men doing grunt labor in much of Africa or India eat better and have more cash than many Americans. Banks are part of the problem. Low wages means more credit debt thus more interest payments. The Payday loan business will fight any increase in wages. Eventually enough wage earners will get fed up and change will come.
1
Another part of the solution would be to pass laws not allowing executives to command high pay until all of their employees were off public assistance. Then, there would be a true free market. If hamburgers that sold at $7.00 with state-subsidized employees did not sell on the free market at, for example, $12.00, then that business would have the opportunity to fail. That might hurt those employees initially, but eventually, executives would learn that hiring state-subsidized, yet still impoverished labor was no longer a viable business strategy, improving the workplace in the long run. If the sale of the burgers can not support the workforce needed to serve them, then those burgers are underpriced, so that the business is merely a means to funnel tax dollars into executives' pockets.
2
Standard economic theory gives the scorned result that high wages make for unemployment.
Two immediate objections. (1) NYT: experience contradicts theory. (2) the theory assumes perfect competition.
Let's take up (2). It's not enough to say "irrelevant because no perfect competition." It's a powerful result and it carries over to many cases of imperfect competition.
In fact, what comes to mind as the exception is the very rare case of true monopsony, a single employer of workers who have no alternative. So, it's a strong result and needs to be respected.
We should ask, "why doesn't it work". Or maybe better "how doesn't it work: it should". Like the mechanic, who says "carburetor looks good, should work, I'm baffled".
Now, let's look at the Times' argument, (1). Theory is at variance with reality--- So long, theory. But such inductive reasoning is chancy.
The simplest, and thus usually the most elegant and correct, theories describe long-run tendencies. You ignore them at your peril. An example.
Printing money for Vietnam was fine from 1965 to 1969. Inflation started, but was ok until 1971.
Then we fought it, got unemployment, backed off, fought it, unemployment, backed, worse unemployment, saw double digit inflation.
We got the man on horseback, Reagan, who knocked down wages so that inflation would fall. Per theory. It worked.
So long, Dems.
I like my socialism straight. Tax from owners and give to workers. Don't screw around with wages.
Elizabeth Warren is the one candidate who thoroughly understands the economic problems and their worsening effects if we don't elect officials who aren't beholden to the wealthy and the corporations. Pay attention to what she says! We should be grateful to have the insights of an expert like her and the chance to elect her as president.
1
Not raising the federal minimum wage for 10 years? That's a national disgrace. Nobody can live on $7.25/hour, let alone support a family with just one job.
And it's high time that ALL employers pay the minimum wage. Restaurants and bars, etc., who pay nothing in wages because their employees make tips is just another example of business externalizing the costs onto the consumer. Think Walmart full-time employees having to get food stamps. Enough is enough. Do the right thing, Congress, and let people work and live with some dignity.
1
As a liberal with a strong belief that the federal government has a strong role in improving the lives of its citizens, I am generally against a minimum wage (a wage that I earned for a number of years).
The reason is this. Ultimately a wage will be a function of the economic value of an employee. It is a simple mathematical comparison of economic value produced by an employee vs. the cost of the employee. If the cost exceeds the value, employers will generally make or continue the hire (unless there is some required network effect).
My view is that the liberal project to increase wages should not be mandating some required minimum level. It is to ensure that everyone has access to education and training (childhood and adult) to be able to increase their economic output to such a point that they can demand higher wages. This could be paying a wage to students in education and retraining (like Finland); it could be promoting free college education and professional training; it could be providing more governmental educational institutions; it could be mandating employers pay for the educational institutions that produce the labor force that their industries use... There's a million possibilities.
However, covering our eyes at the obvious economic effects of localized funding of K-12 education (and its inherent segregation and overfunding of rich communities) and then pretending to remedy them through a minimum wage is a band aid solution to a massive head wound.
2
Wrong. Low wages are not generally a measure of economic value, but of the relative power of employers and job seekers.
9
@JSD
"economic value of an employee" We will always have plenty of jobs that require little skill or training. In fact, as one of those with a college degree - in SCIENCE - still making less than $15/hr, because over half the jobs out there are low paying. Are you saying it is ok to pay folks less than they can live on for a 40 hour week??
3
@Ima Palled Wrong, the relative power of the job seeker is based on their skills and education. If they lack either or both, their relative power is going to be impotent as far as seeking more than the market value of their qualifications. You can arguing for propping up their relative power through artificial means, such as wage mandates, but you can't change how the market actually values their labor.
2
Raise minimum wage, YES, but one size fits all is absurd. Minimum wage needs to be aligned with local cost of living. $15/hour may be great in W. Virginia, but meaningless in San Francisco.
1
MORE PEOPLE WITH MORE MONEY MEANS MORE SPENDING.
This is what right wingers won't tell you - which includes economists. More money for them of course means more power.
That was the true reason for our success after WWII - most of the population was well paid.
4
I say why double it? Tripple it. Now you Democrats have something to talk about.
3
@Chris Anderson
Doubling it will put its value where it should be, had it gone up with the cost of living.
There have been 2 long stretches now when the Repubs have refused to raise the MW. One was around when I graduated from highs school from 1980-89. The other we are currently still in. But the cost of living has at least doubled, if not more. Those of us born in the 60s & 70s are worth far less than those older because of poor wages.
1
@Chris Anderson increase the minimum wage 10-fold!! See how much I care?
@Susan
Actually Susan accounting for inflation the minimum wage is currently more than when it was when first implemented in 1938 at $.25
It is in line with where it was in 1950 at $.75 per hour. You are probably trying to use the outlier of 1968/1969 when the minimum wage was what today would be $12.00 per hour or so.
There has never been a time, indexing for inflation, when today's $15 per hour was the minimum wage in the US.
Here in Seattle the minimum wage will increase to $13.50 an hour. Based upon 2,000 hours of work a year that amounts to $27,000 gross, the estimated take home pay is $1,904 per month. The average rent on a one bedroom apartment here in Seattle currently $2,151.
4
Lett's start by paying newspaper delivery folks double the minimum wage.
That should help circulation.
7
So, you’re saying........Bernie Sanders is right?!
3
How generous of you NYT Editorial but in NYC that would not rent an apartment unless you coupled up.
Some CEO's make 1 million a day. What does your CEO make?
3
Yes!
Typical small-time thinking from the Times. Quadruple it!
2
Ah more bleeding heart liberals out to do charity work. And of course always on someone else's dime.
6
Why do we elect politicians who are not representing the interest of the public? What year is this 1930 and we are still having a debate about wages.
rich people suck up all the air in a room and pay nothing to emplyees. Jeff Bezo, hedge funds upport pie in the sky concepts that dont have achance of working in the marketplace. Bloomberg is using prison employees so he doesn't have to pay good salaries. then pretends he didn't know about it, old white man getting over once again.
Our society is corrupt and without character. Force corporations to raise wages or people will boycott their products. Simple, this country loves money we the public should walk with our wallets and only purchase from companies who pay great wages. This is America where everyone but the elites work hard and should be paid.
Federal employees encounter grief everyday and a society that doesn't value communities, families or anyone lives. So pay them well, while the Trump government spends their time hating the American people who are not white just like them..
Americans aren't having children, well look at our policies and the answer is right in your face.
2
Graet idea! Start by getting rid of illegal workers who don't even make the federal minimum and are paid off the books. ca$h
4
I was surprised to see the content of the editorial in conflict with the headline. $15 would more than double the current federal minimum wage. Can the NYTimes headline writers not do the math?
1
@Judy Ball it's called rounding, Judy
Why not quintuple it you skinflints?
1
The NYT wants to inflict even more harm on the poor?? The $15/hour minimum wage is costing jobs everywhere it’s been tried.
4
Liberals are always very good at spending other people's money.
7
Fat chance.
Not unless you also double social security and other pension payouts, I wont be impoverished over this kind of nuttery.
1
Seeing the stat that the federal deficit is balooning thanks to the corprate welfare tax cut and the extra helping of moe due to lobbying as reported in the Times the biggest corporations can surely afford to pay more. The smaller businesses are the ones who struggle to meak it work paying it so I think that there should be more paid by the companies that have benefitted form this tax bonaza. Amazon still not paying taxes is ridiculous as they are decimating innumerable industires yet are getting a free ride. Meanwhile the guy who couldn't make money as ac asino owner is running up his playbook of running up debt and who cares because I'll be out of here and that;s not my problem. Work on the spending Congress Senate and Prez. The trees are falling in the forest and no care hear them crashing.
The purpose of a low minimum wage is to maximize profits which insures the rich get richer. That is the number one objective of the republican party. Keep Donnie et al’s rents high. They will make up any story, tell any lie, to insure the outcome. And the base lap it up like gospel.
Won’t change until the boomers die out. Good that smarter states do the obvious. But data never swings a person once their mind is made up. And Fox News will give them some rubbish to keep the faith
1
Yes, lets doublee the minimum wage, but it will also be necessary to implement strong, certain enforcement of laws to prevent the hiring and exploiting of illegal immigrants.
One certain result of increasing the minimum wage will be to increase the demand by employers for illegal immigrant workers who are unable to lay claim to those higher wages due to their precarious status. This is one reason that, even in areas that are big Trump supporters who demonize immigrants, they still want cheap, docile workers, and people who's residential status puts them at a disadvantage are the only ones who fill that bill. You just have to look at the shameful exploitation of illegal immigrants at the meat packing plants recently raided by ICE in Alabama to see how this works. Meat packing used to be a highly paid, unionized industry back in the 70s. We still ate plenty of meat then, but the agriculture industry had an over-production problem, so used union busting, aided by our government slyly turning a blind eye to the flood of illegal immigrants that supplied this labor, and helped to kill the unions.
3
Some of these conservatives would reinstate slavery, indentured servitude, and while they talk about illegal immigrants. They cannot hire them fast enough.
Bring the Federal minimum wage up to $15.00 an hour and allow a cost of living increase every year there after. Cap CEO wages to 25 times minimum wage. See wages rise quickly.
2
Of course 15 bucks won't do it in most places around the country. It should have been 15 bucks ten years ago. NOW, it's at least 25 bucks. And, while we are at it, let's redefine the parameters of who is "poor," and still paying income taxes (while rich people do not.) Nobody who makes less than $25,000/year, today, should be paying any income taxes, and should qualify for many government assistance programs, while they learn to do decent living wage jobs. Want to get control of this poverty problem? Switch to clean energy, address the climate crisis, build new infrasructurem=, and public transportation and train millions of people for these jobs, triple education funding, making sure every person gets the education they need to take care of themselves. Why is this a mystery? Well, guess what. It's not a mystery, particularly to the wealthy. They would rather see millions suffer, than to see this country as generally prosperous and peaceful, just so long as they can avoid making any contribution to the welfare of their own country, while claiming to be altruistic, patriotic "job creators." Disgusting.
Pay for entry level service jobs would rise quickly if Democrats stopped encouraging and enabling illegal immigration.
Illegal immigrants put downward pressure on wages through basic supply and demand.
7
The headline of this article rebuts its own premise. "State and local governments are proving that higher minimum wage standards are good for workers." Exactly. So allow the state and local governments to set their own wages, there's no need for a national federal standard. Ahh the irony NY Times.
3
America, under the tender guidance of the Republican Party, has gradually eroded the value of our workforce. Employees have gradually become 'expenses.' Any rational assessment would declare workers as assets, and spend what it takes to optimize those assets. Training, healthcare, childcare, and above all, a living wage.
We hear constantly that we are a 'consumer economy.' Well, the consumers can be optimized as well, simply by paying them what it takes for them to have some money to spend.
It should be every business’s goal to pay wages and salaries as high as feasible.
I think each member of the Times Editorial Board should start a business, using their own money and credit, with no grants or tax credits, and pay a minimum wage that the Board wants every actual business in America to pay. After a year each Board member can write an article about how easy it was to start a business with their own money and credit. As we learned as children, talk is cheap.
4
Find me an economist who will state that the ideal minimum wage to maximize earnings and employment for workers should be the same across the entire country. That economist doesn't exist, because the idea is ludicrous. Should the minimum wage be raised in a number of different states and cities? Yes, and maybe it should be raised in the whole country, but not doubled.
Research shows that raising the minimum wage up to 40% of the median wage has little effect on employment, but above 50% of the median wage for an area employers start deciding that the lowest skilled workers aren't worth hiring. Raising the minimum to 100% or more of the median wage in some counties is sure to hurt the poorest people in this country.
The national minimum needs to be set to what makes the most sense in rural Mississippi, not Manhattan. Beyond that, go ahead and adjust the minimum for each country to 40-50% of the previous year's median wage every April 1 (when the data is all in). The NYT is once again arguing that we should ignore any unintended negative consequences, and go ahead with whatever looks good, whatever signals the maximum virtue. Republicans get elected when Democrats prefer to do what looks good rather than making the effort to govern well. Following the NYT's advice will continue to make the Democrats the party of unintended consequences, the party of virtue signalling, the party that loses elections.
2
Does anybody remember the story of what Henry Ford supposedly did when he got his assembly line up and running? He paid his workers twice what other vehicle manufacturers did at the time for the simple reason he wanted his employees to be able to afford his product.
Whether he actually did say that or not is irrelevant. What matters is that someone realized that workers were the consumers of the mass produced product, not just the top 1% at the time.
It was the simplicity of the the worker-as-consumer economic model that created the industries and markets we have now.
Just how many robots are eating fries with their burgers these days anyway?
2
A lot of comments about how raising the minimum wage will be bad for businesses and will decrease revenue and may decrease employment.
First, the entire point of the studies that this article cites to is that raising the minimum wage does NOT have the expected negative effects that we are all told to fear.
Second, people are not accounting for the increase in demand created by the raised wages. Those same fast food restaurants and mom and pop stores that have to pay their employees more will also be making more money because their customers will ALSO be making and spending more money.
4
Our government keeps telling us that there's no inflation in the economy. The Bureau of Labor Statistics, which calculates the official inflation number, understates the figure by various tricks such as "hedonic" adjustments; i.e., when steaks become expensive, people buy hamburger, so their food expenses haven't increased. When you buy a new TV that's doubled in price, the technology is three times as good, so the BLS might say TVs have come down in price! Generally, prices are adjusted downward, so Social Security recipients receive meager COLA adjustments, and the government pays lower interests on its outstanding debt. And now the Federal Reserve is pumping a half-trillion dollars into our financial system due to the "repo" banking crisis.
Classical economics tells us that when new money is injected into a closed system without a corresponding increase in production, inflation is the result. (More dollars competing for the same number of goods and services.)
So why the grassroots movement for a higher minimum wage? Haven't they got the message that times are good and the living is easy?
The government is lying, and they don't care. It's one giant scam to benefit the ruling class.
2
Maybe if employers shared enough of their profits withy actual workers instead of giving huge bonuses, raises, and outlandish compensation to CEOs, everyone would have a better standard of living. That is not unreasonable.
4
No-one should make 7.25. A livable wage is better for everyone.
2
I have heard there are exceptions to having to pay minimum wage. I would think eliminating that loophole is just as important. No one should be able to get away with paying less than the minimum wage for any reason.
1
@magicisnotreal
Certainly increasing the minimum wage to $15/hr would lead to companies trying to create a lot more "contractors" working by the piece, job, or some other metric to try to avoid paying the higher hourly rate.
1
@magicisnotreal Several years ago, my cousin's employer convinced him to work for free on occasion, telling him the business might go under if he didn't and he'd lose his job.
Many minimum wage, under employed, uneducated people are terrified of losing their jobs, and thus can be convinced of all kinds of things to keep their own wages low.
1
Prior to discussing minimum wages, you should recognize who and what demographics work such jobs--and just as importantly, what kinds of businesses and households pay minimum wage.
Stereotypical assertions will not lead to rational, well-targeted
economic/social assistance programs. For those who claim facts matter, please evaluate in detail the facts of minimum wage payments and recipients. They do not align with what most advocates portray--such as this editorial.
3
Minimum wage workers use overtime to build a liveable wage.
they work 12-15 hours plus/day and often have no medical insurance. the wealth of a nation is in the good health of its workers. I remain doubtful Americans will ever provide a liveable age for what is deemed unskilled work because big companies have already outsourced much of its skilled work to countries where they can pay workers less than $7.25/hour. .
1
"For most companies, the bill is relatively small, and it can be defrayed by giving less money to shareholders, or by raising prices."
Does the editorial board have anyone that took Econ 101 in college?
3
If we are not going to support a maximum income through taxes, then we should at least enforce a minimum living wage.
2
One cannot help people who are blinded to their own poor choices and unreal expectations. Minimum wage jobs are not careers but people projected their “wants” onto the situation and will disappointed when their expectations are not met. It’s not reasonable to expect entry-level for life jobs to support a family.
5
In order for that to happen, better paying jobs must exist for people to move up into.
1
Just let the lawmakers try and live off $7.25 an hour. That would last about a week or so, then see how fast that changes. These folks have no idea how hard it is working 2 or 3 jobs to try and provide for your family. For years I worked as a sanitation worker for 23 years and a second job on the weekends driving tractor trailers at JFK airport. I also went to college at night for six years to get my degree. All while providing as best I could for my wife and 3 young children. I've been a CPA for over 20 years now. But everyday I feel the aches and pains of those early years. Perhaps there should be more people like me in the Congress who know how it is on both sides of the street!
4
To the rich, there are already too many people able to afford a one-room apt.
2
I'm in a white collar job with 15 years experience making $20 an hour working for a Fortune 500 Technology Company. It's time for wages to rise.
3
I live in Washington State where the minimum wage will increase to $13.50 tomorrow. In the neighbor state, Idaho, the $7.25 rate will still apply. It explains the huge number of Idaho residents who now work in Washington. But the Idaho legislature loves it. A full eighty per cent of the legislature is made up of Republicans. Since Idaho has a state income tax and Washington doesn't, Idaho benefits from their residents increased income from Washington as they pay more into the Idaho coffers.
Perhaps it is time for Washington State to implement a carpetbaggers tax.
3
@allen roberts
Maybe income tax should be (partially?) paid to the state where you work, not where you live?
While I realize that the editorial board has good intentions, in practice they do not play out as planned. In my state, Minnesota, popular restaurants are now closing frequently. Why? Because in our area, people simply are not willing and/or able to pay $15 minimum wages to servers, along with a tip and "wellness" charges that are now included.
Thus employees no longer earn their salary and a tip; they are out of a job and restaurants close.
Truly, a free market handles wages imperfectly but better than mandated wages. Employees and employers weigh what is best for them in their particular circumstances, and act accordingly. Trying to craft federal law that handles mandated wages in San Francisco versus Fulda, MN is a nightmare.
Stop owners from having to shut down, workers to lose jobs and patrons no longer using their services. Allow free choice to dictate what is best.
5
How many people in favor of a $15 per hour minimum wage pay their baby sitters $15 per hour? Very, very few. Why? Some jobs just do not justify it. This is only one example of the unintended consequences of this idea. A strong economy creates demand and that increases wages. There should be no minimum wage and no maximum wage. To insist menial jobs be paid a "living wage" is irrational. Politicians need to be business friendly, help business succeed, hire more workers, and give workers the opportunities to earn greater wages.
4
The NYT is free to double every employee’s pay right now
10
The nytimes editorial board is feeling the Bern!!!
3
If the minimum wage had kept pace with inflation, it would now be about $18/hr.
But if it matched productivity and profit, it would be $45/hr.
Instead, all that money went to the top while working class people can't afford to live where they work or pay for college.
GOP tax policy and union busting are the cause of American decline.
5
@Occupy Government - "But if it matched productivity and profit, it would be $45/hr."
Productivity? Not according to what I saw this morning from those earning $15/hr at Walmart..
2
Starting pay at Walmart is $11/hr here.
@Occupy Government
Wrong...in 1938 when the minimum wage began it was 25 cents. in 2019 money that would be about 5 bucks an hour. Accounting for inflation there is no time in American history that the minimum wage would have been $18 an hour. The most was 1968/1969 when it was about $12.00 per hour. This was an outlier and the vast majority of the last 80 years the minimum wage was worth far less than what you are claiming.
2
What a great idea! Double the minimum wage.... and in 6 months, the price of everything in the country will double.... effectively cutting the value of the dollar in half.... and making us just that much closer to an inflationary spiral that will destroy the economy of the world.
We have a president who governs by impulse.... exactly the wrong person to be in charge in an emergency (hasn't he caused enough already?).... this idea will be the final nail in our coffin.
5
There is no reason for prices to double, and they probably would not do so. Companies are making a lot of money and it wouldn't cost much to share some of that with the workers who are actually making them profitable. Did you even read the article?
2
"The poor will always be with us." As always we hear the Devil or one of his minions parsing scripture to serve a selfish purpose...just look at the 400 years of puritanical parsimony practiced by our privileged few and you may agree. So easy to enrich oneself from slave and peon labor, after all.
3
Conservative voters who never tire of complaining about welfare handouts, never seem to notice how the fast food industry and Walmart are pushing off on the taxpayer to help their workers make ends meet.
112
@The Buddy don’t forget the farm subsidy that is mostly going to big ag or the increase to the farmers because of the tariffs. And of course the corporate welfare that goes to oil companies
29
@The Buddy
The media needs to cover this more often, most people don't know or understand this. These are the kind of stories the public needs daily, not the latest Twitter feed.
16
@The Buddy
The Walmart superstore that costs the taxpayers a million dollars a year in 'social safety net' expenditures is actually less expensive to staff than if the employees were outright slaves. That is because a slave owner must feed, shelter, and provide health care for his human chattels.
Slavery is never profitable to a nation or its economy...but is always profitable to the owner.
8
Questiion?
Is the increase in minimum wages in some states and municipalities the sole or main reason the median wage in the U.S. has inched up recently?
In other words are the progressive governments across America helping Trump look good by increasing their minimum wages, or does Mr. T get some of the credit?
1
To all the folks who argue that the wage should be different in a rural area as opposed to the city should drive by a large farm or ranch... you’ll notice that the main house is very large and usually has several 80k pickups parked nearby. Then you’ll notice the mobile homes that the real workers at the ranch or farm live in and the 15 to twenty yr old cars and trucks parked in front usually with the hood up while they work on the vehicle after they get done with the bosses. Kinda reminds me of the old south
6
The real issue is the types of jobs available. Years ago, there were very few fast-food places. Instead, there were coffee shops, sandwich places, and so forth. These were usually owned and run by the cook and the waitress. They were able to survive on this type of place because they cooked the food, did not play the franchise fee, and did not hire a lot of others. Today, every small town has a ton of ff places, which hire help. There's huge competition due to the number of ff places. They workers are not owners. They are unskilled and untrainable. FF is not a living wage - it's a part-time job. That's the real issue.
2
It is not true that all these workers are untrainable. Some are there because it’s the only job around.
This editorial, and many comments, have called for elected officials to raise the minimum via legal fiat. Doing so will kick the can down the road unless changes are made to the engine of our economy. Without fundamental change the wage scale adjusts and new wage become the old wage. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Fix the economy and wages will follow, fixing (manipulating) wages and the economy will fail.
1
December 31, 2019
Excellent advise for basic minimum wages that give some growing room purchasing power and appreciation - great Editorial advisory. We are a better society when we can understand and act with surety towards rational balance in the all facets of the best social economic cultural we embrace.
3
I strongly support the principal of a fair days pay for a fair days work - the problem with jumping the minimum wage up is that unless we are very careful we will increase geographic inequality.
Rapid minimum wage increases only work if either local employers have very high profits (at the expense of workers) or the area has untapped economic reserves (infrastructure, unused education etc.) to quickly change to produce higher value goods and services to justify the new wages.
I see poor rural areas being left behind as the policy meant to help leads to net job losses and movement of the young to cities which can support more productive work.
Initiatives such as rural broadband and supporting local efforts to revitalize rural towns to make them attractive places to live and work seem more likely to actually address inequality.
1
Many, many employers do have very high profits. Amazon for example. You think Bezos would even notice a few billion less?
If the 2009 minimum wage of $7.25 had been indexed for inflation or the CPI it would be about $9.50. It should be raised to $9.50 and indexed to the CPI.
@David J. Krupp Yes, and if the 1938 minimum of 25 cents had been indexed for inflation the minimum wage would be about 5 bucks now. Whats your point?
1
Ah, the lofty NYT. This is where you lose small business owners. I invite you to spend a couple days with my family's small businesses in the northeast. See the beauty of the minimum wage worker -- tats abound, piercings abound, teeth do not abound. Take a look at how hard it is to find them, train them, keep them. Take a look at the staggeringly high absenteeism -- most are single parents and can't afford daycare so when a kid is sick the parent stays home. Take a look at the high turnover rate. And please, take a look at the theft that is written in as the cost of being an employer, despite fancy registers and cameras. It may actually be that the majority of minimum wage workers are not really worth more. This is the lot of the small business employer, who juggles all the single parents and hears the routine crises (car repossessed, drunken bf left...). And YES, there are minimum wage workers who are fantastic -- but of course, they earn more than the minimum wage already, because they are the backbone of the corps of workers. In a hard scrapple area the pickings are slim. Consider yourself invited.
7
In my experience, business owners who complain about the “tats” and family drama of their employees run autocratic hellholes for profit. I am a small business owner who, from day one, decided to pay every employee enough to not have to worry about money on the job and have provided shares of the company to every employee. As a result, I spend almost no time dealing with absenteeism, other than to see if they need anything while they’re away. The previously turbulent lives of some of lower wages workers has noticeably subsided, their observation, not mine. Profit margins are not what they could be if I implemented chattel slaver, but I’m ok with that. I’m not in favor of a federal minimum because I think think it’s insufficiently bold, what we need to do is help workers take power from contemptible bosses who create work environments that are managerial tyrannies.
4
@Anon I don't know about the "correct" economics of this issue, but I'm not sure that being anonymous in San Francisco provides enough assurance that you know better.
I'd certainly appreciate knowing more of your own background before I take your word as an expert. Consider yourself invited.
@Chad
What kind of business do you own and where is it located? Who are and Where are its customers located
Doubling the minimum wage will drive inflation and unemployment through the roof. One would think that such sophisticated and educated editors would know that. But since they live in their own bubble they really don't have a clue how the real world works.
4
You need to consider the unintended consequences of this decision. Many restaurants will go bankrupt. Restaurant jobs -- often the first job for every immigrant, teenager, single mom, or otherwise unemployable person -- the way out of poverty for most -- disappear. What will happen to them?
6
The minimum wage in my state is 7.25, but the effective minimum wage is $11.00 - nobody who can hold down a job will work for less.
It's hard to make it work on $11.00 per hour, but guess what? 11.00 is not far from the living wage of 11.65 that the MIT living wage calculator calculates for a single adult in my area. See for yourself:
https://livingwage.mit.edu/
So, the real problem is that people are trying to support families with minimum wages, which is tragic. We're not an agrarian society anymore! Children aren't an economic asset; they're a liability. If you have children before you're able to afford them, you're going to have a lifetime of misery, and it's nobody's fault but your own.
7
On paper maybe it’s enough, but in actual real life it’s really hard to live on $11 even in the Midwest.
1
Feckless incrementalism is what we’re talking about. Workers need democracy on the job. Workers who have democracy at work are already paid a living wage, no fed standard required. We need Medicare for all. Power is what matters, and by taking the administration of health away from corporate masters, we will shift an enormous amount of power back to working people so they can demand everything they need, including but certainly not limited to a living wage.
I have spent time in South Dakota. The minimum wage there should not be the same as in New York. The costs of living are vastly different. Likewise, someone who serves fries at a McDonalds doesn’t deserve $15 an hour.
The elitist editorial board should avoid trying to give lessons in economics.
5
I appreciate the mea culpa from the New York Times.
The market does not recognize inequality, says Paul Krugman in an article in today's NYT. So government should intervene expeditiously and make adjustments and corrections when and where appropriate. Raising the Federal minimum wage is one such intervention.
1
I propose that everyone who argues against raising the minimum wage has to live on it for a year... I’m speaking to milo, and Jim Dunlop so far but there will be many more
2
@JD
Why? Im against raising it and I had to live on it for 2 years. Ages 16-18. What the minimum wage is meant for. Why should anyone who has the opportunity to earn more "have" to earn what you say?
2
All well and good... but inflation dummy. First your taxes will go up.. then the cost of bread goes up and the cost of EVERYTHING right behind it. What a wonderful way to bankrupt the middle class while the government profiteers on the back of the private sector....
1
People have been screaming about massive inflation being right around the corner for years. They did this the last time we raised the minimum too. So far, it hasn’t happened.
The laws of economics cannot be repealed. Increase the price of something, you get less demand for it. Even Paul Krugman admitted that, back when he was an actual economist.
Today at Walmart, of the 20 or so checkout lanes, 2 were “manned”; everyone else went to the six self-check out lanes. Across the street at Quik Check, ordering is done via a kiosk. (McD’s is installing them nationwide against the possibility that the stupid policy you support will be enacted.)
Even lottery games are now done with self-service machines.
Now, perhaps YOU turn up your nose at a paltry $7.50 per hour. But when the choice is that or $0 per hour – and it is – you might choose differently.
Businesses will NEVER pay an employee more than she contributes to the enterprise. You can get away with rotten policy for a while in up times. But the economy WILL burp. And when that happens, overpriced labor will be the first item on the chopping block.
We should, here, learn from Bernie Sanders’s own favorite place: Sweden. Their minimum wage? $0. (Which, of course, is the minimum wage everywhere)
Wages increased last year by 3%+ due to a labor shortage. The way to increase wages even further is to eliminate low cost competition from resident foreigners. If you truly cared about low wage workers, you’d advocate for sending all illegals home and closing the borders to unskilled immigrants.
Yes, the American economy is producing lots of jobs. Apparently, you want to put an end to that.
5
@Michael RE: "Businesses will NEVER pay an employee more than she contributes to the enterprise."
Beg to differ. And as proof, check out the severance packages for CEOs dismissed because they didn't move the needle.
2
This doesn’t take in to account the massive wealth big business has hoarded for years. Businesses got this by paying low wages & taxes. Why shouldn’t they have to share some of the profit with their workers?
Of course the NY Times supports this. Forcing employers in rural low cost areas to pay the same as employers in expensive cities is a huge break for NYC and other high cost of living mostly liberal areas. Basically a US government bailout because your city planning is trash and/or you aren't willing to make the tough decisions necessary. Any plan to significantly increase the federal minimum wage should include a cost of living adjustment so it is fair to everyone.
3
Mind-boggling economic illiteracy from the media arm of the progressive left. Please do tell, Editorial Board, if the concerns are 'greatly overstated' and if $15 an hour is such a painless boon then why stop at $15? Certainly the least skilled could use a raise to $20 an hour even more! Or even better to $30, right?!
4
if your business model is based on paying workers less than it costs for workers to feed, clothe, and house themselves, your business model is theft, because your workers will be on the dole while they are working, and your business model is a crime.
6
Whole industries operate thus.
@No name If the employees were worth more, they would be getting paid more.
1
Raising the minimum wage of federal workers does not make us less competitive overseas, because except for the Defense Department, the federal government is not going to relocate offshore.
Raising the wages of factory workers could result in factories shutting down and moving offshore if trade deals do not require comparable wages and regulations to what we have in this country. Because NAFTA and other trade deals did not include labor and environmental protections, there was this "great sucking sound" as Ross Perot predicted as factories did relocate offshore. Trump's recent trade deal with Mexico is too little too late.
Underpaid offshore employees without saftey and environmental regulations does result in lower prices for the consumer, but this is a poor reward for the unemployed or underemployed who end up working in retail selling products that used to be made in our country.
Unemployed and underemployed workers also increase the government deficits, because government programs are necessary to prevent an increase in suicide rates and prevent American cities from looking like cities in Third World countries, where millions live in shantytowns or sleep on the streets.
2
Minimum wage research summarized nicely here: https://www.anderson.ucla.edu/faculty-and-research/anderson-review/minimum-wage-primer-leamer
Let's end our socialism for the 1% and corporations. Tax the wealthy, pay a real living wage. Why should our tax dollars fund Jeff Bezos' welfare king lifestyle???
3
@Aimee
Please, where are these checks that the government is throwing at Bezos to fund his "lifestyle"? This is silly, the government is getting BILLIONS of dollars of tax revenue from Amazon, to suggest that were just throwing money at King Jeff is ludicrous.
1
So, that simple.
Why not then $100/hour?
Why not $1000?
Why not $1,000,000?
Don’t scoff. Don’t snort. Answer!
WHY NOT!?
4
When I started working the minimum wage was $1.00 per hour. It was possible to rent an apartment for less than $50, gas cost $.25 a gallon, hamburger 3 lb for a $1.00. Now you are lucky to find a small apartment for $1,000 in most cities and double that in NYC and SF. $20 would be a more realistic target to equal what I was paid when I started to work as a student.
2
The subsistence wages paid to your workers and their need to work two jobs just to survive is the most disgraceful thing about america. If ordinary people were accorded more dignity i am sure you would have fewer social problems such crime, homelessness and mental illness.
133
@Bis K
I wasn’t aware that everyone in Australia was paid so well that no one there needs to work two jobs.
Or that Australians are paid so well that service workers in Sydney can afford to house themselves in one of the most expensive real estate markets on Earth.
This seems a far cry from my visit to your wonderful country 20 years ago when I saw dirt poor people in parts of northern Queensland.
But they were mostly indigenous so maybe the locals simply did not notice as they were busy patting themselves on the back for living in the Lucky Country.
6
@EGD
On the other hand, we have way more homeless than Australia.
We spend twice as much for healthcare and have parts of the US with infant mortality rates of a second world country.
We rank 24 for science education and 38 for math education.
We have the highest incarceration rate in the world.
We have worse economic mobility than most of the other first world industrial countries other than the UK.
We are the only first world country that has to have active shooter drills for our children.
The list goes on.
If I had to be born poor urban black or poor rural white and have children, I would choose Australia over the US.
9
@EGD Defensive much? We're the wealthiest country in the world, and yet all the criticisms you lobbed at Bis K apply to us too. We have dirt poor people all over our country, and that is especially true for our indigenous and black citizens.
5
Of course higher wages are good for workers. They also bolster our consumer economy.
The same voodoo economists that brought us trickle down tax cuts for the rich have opposed living wages since the time of Malthus, who preached that subsistence wages keep the work force strong by weeding out the weak, and protects working class morals by removing leisure time and money with which to sin. Enrichment of the owner class was a mere coincidental byproduct of this noble urge to protect workers from idleness and full bellies.
It reminds me of the current, ennobling “gift of labor” the new SNAP work requirement pretends to provide, though it will mostly just make life harder for the working poor, and transfer funds from assisting the needy to administration of the new rules.
5
Raising the minimum wage means more spending money in the wallets of people who actually spend it. That means more work for people who supply their needs and wants. More work means more income. More income means more spending.... and round and round it goes.
Win-win, I think.
4
What about minimum skills? Why are graduating children from high school with no skills? If they have a marketable skill for our current time, they will be paid considerably more than minimum wage.
4
We graduate students from schools with poor education because we have built a system that funds schools based on local wealth. As wealth concentration becomes worse, access to quality education also reinforces the same cycle. IMHO, many in power, particularly in areas with low unemployment desire their education systems to remain weak because it reinforces their the leaders position of power. They don’t want a well educated, well paid workforce.
1
"And even as wages have marched upward, job growth remains strong. The unemployment rate at the end of 2019 will be lower than the previous year for the 10th straight year."
That is a bad analogy. Why not put it at 1990-2000. That includes a rise in wages and the boom that went with it. Or the 2000-2010 that saw stagnet wages and the depression which millions were out of work?
1
If we can continue to give massive tax relief to wealthy corporations and people, then these entities can afford to pay a higher starting wage. Trump's tax plan was supposed to do just that, but as anyone with any sense knew, it was a free pass for the rich.
3
YES! Let’s have fair pay for all, and let’s have million and billionaires pay their FAIR share of taxes! This was the way during the Eisenhower administration when our nation’s educational system and our infrastructure was the envy of the world....and our Middle Class was thriving!
This is not socialism, it’s fair and equitable! When we all win, we ALL win!
5
Socialism means democracy at work. We currently have feudalism at work where unaccountable private power controls the wealth as well as health of its subjects. You are right, this is not socialism, but that’s why it’s not at all sufficient.
4
Is there some reason that the minimum wage can't be tied to an index where every 7-10 years it adjusts accordingly? 40 years ago, $25,000 annually used to be a very good salary, but now it allows little beyond the basics and often involves two jobs. Seems to me that business can plan and manage much better with an index than relying on political wrangling that serves only a few well.
And to the point of political influence serving a few, individual political contributions need to be capped at 10% of the poverty level for everyone. Let's help all Americans have a voice, not just those blessed with the means to write a substantial check.
4
McDonald's workers are always held up as the paragon of martyred and underpaid employees in articles like this, but what about salaried employees whose jobs require a college degree (and college debt) who barely earn the $15 this article is suggesting? Their needs have to be taken into account in any discussion of salary and fair pay as well, even if they aren't as good poster children.
6
Don't forget that the low unemployment rate includes people who are "employed" as little as one day a week. That looks good for the Republicans, but it isn't helping American workers or the economy. Trading the two or three jobs it takes to survive for one full time job with a decent salary would be well worth it.
3
First there is the advocacy of inflation - which hits prices first.
Then, after inflation, there is advocacy to increase the minimum wage because it is not enough to cover increased prices and we are back to where we started. The only thing that doesn't increase are my savings.
What the NYT and others are actually advocating is a tax on savings.
Furthermore:
A minimum wage job is not supposed to support a family, yet that is what proponents are asking for.
Raising minimum wage kills jobs only when the job can be exported. This is why manufacturing has left the US, but baristas, burger-flippers, and gardeners, have stayed.
4
Why not let the States decide what the correct minimum wage is? Alabama and California are very different, this should be set by the local priorities and economic dynamics. A national minimum should be a baseline for the most least expensive state to abide by in term of cost of living and ensure that no worker in this country is subjected to a lower wage than that. As far as the board citing a study from 1993 on fast food chains not being affected by a wage increase that is not relevant to today. Airlines have self-service check0in kiosks and have tricked us into each being our own bag handler with small carry on bags. Fast food chains will increase investment in automation and lower jobs and even more retailers will be driven out by the e-commerce model with websites and warehouses, no sales associates. High minimum wage will not come out of shareholder earnings as long as technology, outsourcing to overseas (something not even mentioned by this editorial), and consolidation remain open to business owners in response all of which will suppress job creation and growth.
7
States rights is simply an argument for slavery. The reason for a Federal minimum is that all Americans deserve dignity- not just those in progressive states and those who happen to be white and connected in conservative ones.
1
For once, can we just recognize that a "low unemployment rate" is not a good thing?
If every job in a nation, any nation, is taken then there is no "upward movement". That is a stagnant economy.
No one is improving because no one dares switch out their job, move up, move on, take a risk.
And, here, given that workers must work more than one job to survive and all the low-paying, 'entry' jobs are taken, then any movement by the worker can be catastrophic. And dump them in the street.
Yesterday there was an article in this paper: "How Big Companies Won New Tax Breaks From the Trump Administration".
A specific paragraph stated:
"This month, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development calculated that the United States in 2018 experienced the largest drop in tax revenue of any of the group's 36 member countries. The United States also had by far the largest budget deficit of any of these countries."
The article also pointed out that that "Tax-Cut" wasn't $1.5 trillion dollars, after all: It was $5.5 TRILLION.
There are two different dreams in this country.
One is the progressive dream that everyone gets an equal start.
The other dream is that we go back to feudalism and forced slavery and fall into the power of kings and dictators.
...Which will win...?
2
@rosa
"For once, can we just recognize that a "low unemployment rate" is not a good thing?"
Sorry, but you have this backwards. A low unemployment rate is definitely a good thing for workers. It forces employers to compete more for employees and actually makes it easier to find work because there are fewer applicants for available jobs.
5
@rosa "For once, can we just recognize that a "low unemployment rate" is not a good thing?"
That statement makes no sense, and you'll have a hard time finding an economist to agree with it. The biggest downside to low employment is the potential for inflation, something that can be managed.
3
If the time has come for an increase in the federal minimum to at least $15 an hour then the time has also come for a guaranteed minimum work week too. Workers must be guaranteed a livable that routinely eliminate civil service and state employment positions and replace these formerly permanent positions with contractors and/or consultants. Just raising the minimum wage leaves too many vulnerable wage earners to the whims of politics, tax evaders and general business practices that treat employees as disposable commodities. Also, it's time to ban the robots and self check out counters at restaurants across the nation. Myself and many of my friends and neighbors refuse to use self checkout robots because we are not paid to do that work.
The states too are greatly guilty of eliminating civil service jobs and other jobs when they hire part-time contractors and by doing so they also eliminate paying federal withholding taxes, Social Security, Medicare and other state and local taxes, thus starving our government programs of needed funds and also dismantling the social safety net.
The problem is that wages, benefits and the rights of workers have been eroded, literally legislated out of existence by the state and federal governments.
We need more than a $15 minimum wage. We need to face the myriad of ways that workers lose their positions, time on the job, and all the benefits they are rightly entitled to receive. We need to face down the states and end most contracted jobs.
5
Minimum wage should be based on the cost of living. When it's not, taxpayers subsidize workers who can't survive on their wages, aand, indirectly the companies who employ them. Nothing annoys me more than knowing my hard-earned dollars going to subsidize the profits of companies who underpay their employees.
153
@SAO
Jobs have been sent overseas so there are far fewer in the US than before.. BUT shareholders are doing very well this year!
That said. cost of living RISING means INFLATION. (Sort of like Reagan offering amnesty to illegal immigrants.)
In rural areas housing is less costly than in cities.
BTW why do so many things- medical procedures cost so much more in the USA-- all of this becomes "because they can." I don't know what a fair wage is but I do know that many people are overpaid for what they do NOT do. And I agree with Yang about an allowance for people earning ) or less than X.
There is nothing wrong with learning to live with a status quo -- and frankly, in terms of tax-payer or service jobs (like the MTA- paid for by fares and tolls) many workers should be furloughed at a wage(less than what they receive)-- which would actually help keep prices stable. NO I do not unequivocally support unions or unionism. I do not believe that more years on the job (after about five) makes you better (except by chance) thus longevity should NOT determine your wage. Performance might.. but relax already the obesity epidemic indicates most are NOT straving.
National minimum wage is no more a subsidy then safety rules at any construction site a health insurance.
5
@SAO
Underpay their employees?
Surely you realize that every dollar not foolishly frittered away on R&D, improved hardware, safety equipment, or employee wages and benefits... is a dollar that can be wisely invested in CEO salaries, stock buybacks, and 'executive retention bonuses'???
7
Raising the minimum wage, like instituting a guaranteed minimum income, is a band-aid on a much larger problem—an important short term fix, but not a long term solution. The real problem, as I see it, is that most of this “work,” even well paying jobs many of us would be happy to take, is ludicrously unfulfilling. Machines will continue eliminating those as well, and the really good jobs are and will continue to be for those whose minds work ON and work LIKE machines—the STEM graduates. Our faith in this technocracy shows no signs of abating, despite mass extinction, climate change, increasing income inequality, and the decline of quality work.
1
Everyone cannot work at a STEM job. And just because you have a STEM degree is not a guarantee of a good job. A lot of the people who graduated into the recession never found work in their field, myself included. And we still have to pay back the student loans.
$15/hr. in NYC? That would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.
4
When I joined the Federal Government in the 1970's, we were all paid the same. From Jackson, Mississippi to New York City. There was no thought given to the difference in the cost of living. No recognition of the problems in hiring and retaining employees. Great for the folks in Jackson, not so great for me. Finally, in the late 80's, under Bush, we got locality pay. Not all at once, but it was a start. There are huge differences in the cost of living across this nation. Folks in Jackson could enjoy being paid the same as New York because the Feds could afford it. Not so sure for private businesses. If the Trump tax plan was an effort to harm Blue States, this is an attempt to destroy the Red ones.
3
The minimum wage shuts out entry level jobs in many cases. The 16-year-old kid working fast food probably isn't worth $16 an hour. As a result, owner-operators are going to electronic ordering devices and/or robots to do much of the work. This makes it difficult for young people to get valuable job experience. Seems to me that owners should have the right to set the pay for their youngest employees. If the prospective job seeker doesn't like the pay, he or she can look elsewhere. The minimum wage was never meant to be a living wage and should be kept low to help newcomers to the work force.
4
In Ontario there is a general minimum wage for employees and a student minimum wage for young people who are still in high school.
3
“Isn’t worth $15/hr.”
We really need to think about how we value human beings and how we recognize that value.
Do we really think that old service worker, no matter their age, should not be able to live in a stripped-down one-bedroom apartment or that a sixteen- year-old might not be able to save for a trading program or other education in their future?
Payment for work, whether it is sweeping a floor, serving food, stocking shelves, delivering packages, fixing an electrical grid or running a large corporation, should consider the value of the person as well as the value of the work.
We need to rethink business from an ethical as well as an economic point of view.
2
There are good reasons to question the idea that a minimum wage results in lower employment, I accept. That does not mean that the Federal government should be setting it.
The cost of living in New York is vastly different than in Mississippi, as are almost all other business factors. Each state should consider the conditions within that state and set their own minimum wage, based on those factors. Also, while the red headed stepchild of the Constitution, we do still have the 10th Amendment.
1
It is WAY too early to declare giant minimum wage increases locally successful or to claim that this implies they could work nationally. This suggestion is pure confirmation bias.
Businesses that compete internationally are a significant part of the economy and stand a lot to lose with such a misguided policy. Forcing more of the economy underground will also have serious negative consequences. A business deciding where to build a facility seems likely to look where labor costs are less - these decisions have decades-long time horizon as employers are temporarily stuck if they have a viable facility in place. This does not mean they will not leave when their facility ages out, and any short-term study will not adequately catch this effect.
A scientific approach would be to pass a small Federal increase and attaching the wage to inflation and see what happens for a decade or so. It is easy to increase the wage later if this is warranted, but reversing it if has terrible unintended consequences will be very hard. We need to think in terms of long-term policy experiments and not policy by campaign slogan.
13
So those of us working for less than $15 are asked to go another decade on our low wages? This is really easy for you to say as you are not one of the people trying to live on it.
46
@Alan Since "businesses that compete internationally are a significant part of the economy and stand a lot to lose with such misguided policy" then, according to you these businesses should pay their employees the same hourly wages as those employees are paid in Bangladesh ($95 a month), China ($161 a month) or Ecuador ($400 a month).
While labor costs in these countries are less then the labor costs in the United States, I don't think you will find any person in the United States willing to work for an employer based in the United States who will only pay Bangladesh, China or Ecuador minimum wages.
14
@Alan
What causes inflation? Rising wages in the public-supported sector (IMO enough already --I'm w/ Trump there). We need a guaranteed minimal income. sufficient inexpensive housing -- remember the Y's which provided shelter and food in a communal situation for both the young and the old at very reasonable prices-- ALL NOW SOLD for condos. So much for Christianity at work.
Nor do I think NYC has to be a haven for all the homeless in th USA (I think about the tragedy that befell the family from Maine. Why not create wonderful housing and educational and recreational (sports, libraries and garden plots) for the underserved say in Binghamton or Ithaca. Campuses like the expensive one being building in Purchse for well-heeled elderly?
THINK outside the box already.
5
Once again, people that do not understand how markets--that is: physics--work are proscribing band-aids to fix the underlying problem that people do not wish to pay for what they get.
The solution to inequality is not to pick-and-choose different particular programs or means of income to help people. The solution is to make sure that people pay for what they get, and get what they pay for.
That means:
1. Carbon tax. All activity depends on energy. Using energy creates waste/entropy. A reasonable proxy for entropy is Carbon generation. We should tax that, otherwise people are dumping waste for free.
2. Inheritance/estate tax. There is exactly zero reason to allow people that did not earn wealth to get it for free. You ought to earn what you get through work or creative ideas, not the luck of having the right parents.
3. Charging for limited liability. Limited liability (the "LL" in "LLC") is a MASSIVE giveaway to corporate owners. There is absolutely zero reason why corporate owners should get protection from the liabilities of the businesses they own for FREE. They should pay for this--which is really just a form of insurance--like all business expenses.
4. You could probably add that land should have some sort of national tax on it. There is zero sense in someone being allowed to use land forever without some sort of rent being paid to the ultimate owners (that would be us, the people).
Stop all the nonsense and start paying for what you get.
In 1978 I made nearly $10 an hour, plus no cost health insurance at a factory that made semi-conductors for the brand new computer industry. I saw, just today, that the factory which has changed hands over the years is hiring. They pay $13.25 day shift and $14.25 night shift. In 40 years the wage went up a mere 3 bucks an hour.
10
Best comment I have seen because it show how economics and political move together. The US is run, very effectively, by a corporate class and working people are entertained into compliance - drugs, TV, celeb culture, MAGA rallies, obesity, competitive individualism, overwork, and undereducation. In effect, as William James observed over a century ago, the habits of conformism.
5
@fourfooteleven And if we were to look into this "computer" industry, I wonder if their profits increased over those 40 years? (Sarcasm.) So many industries drowning in profits over the years, and little to none of them going to workers.
4
15 is not even enough, it would have to be more like 20 in places like NYC where the rent is much higher than in rural states.
2
Let’s stop fighting to get more crumbs and start demanding to create a true “living wage.” Creating a consistent middle class requires more than simply moving people one rung above the poverty level.
$15/hour is not enough. The federal minimum wage should be $25/hour with adjustments to reflect differences in cost of living based on area and inflation.
When executives feel they are entitled to pay themselves $5,000/hour (roughly a $10,00,000/year salary without bonuses and stock options), but balk at paying their lowest paid worker $25/hour (roughly $52/000/year), therein lies the real problem.
The money is available; it’s just not shared.
5
The folks needing to be sold on minimum wage increases are Republicans. Given their odd fascination with lowering taxes by miniscule amounts that only amount to anything for the wealthy, one would think Republicans would be all for a pay increase to supplement their teeny tax cuts for Joe and Jane America, but they aren't. Due to their blatant and chronic hypocrisy between their rhetoric and actions, the only way this passes is when Democrats have full control over the congress and the Oval Office.
6
So strange, the states leading the feds on this issue. Should be the other way around just like schooling, civil rights, etc.
1
Raising the minimum wage has little to no effect on unemployment according to Nobel prize winning economists like Paul Krugman. The minimum wage should be raised to $200,000 yearly so everyone can live comfortably.
1
@ScaredStiff Paul Krugman has not authored a study on minimum wage effects.
With a booming jobs market the likes of which has perhaps never been seen, brought on in no small part due to a massive deregulation that various NYT opinion columnists claimed would tank the US economy, we now have these same “oracles” proclaiming that the government needs to squeeze business owners to pay their workers even more than the workers actually produce. That’s what a minimum wage is all about. The effect of this policy if it were enacted would be to cause business owners to hire less workers. Anyone who tells you otherwise needs to go back to rudimentary economics and rethink the first principle described in any first year text: “people respond to incentives.” Leaving aside the issue of economic impact is the more important issue of freedom. A person has the right in a free country to offer their services for as much or as little as they choose and by the same token a person has a right to make an offer for such services for as much or as little as they choose. What right does the government have to tell anyone what the value is of an hour of service, and on what planet would a rational person trust the government to arrive at the right number? Where imbalances exist, I’m all for protecting unionization but the concept of a one size fits all approach to minimum wage across this vast land is ridiculous. And the concept that your employer has an obligation to make your ends meet is also ridiculous. That’s your job. Now get back to work!
4
There's no point in having this discussion if the NY Times is going to resort to citing facts and actual real world experiences. That's simply not allowed.
Everyone knows that the way to increase hiring is to cut wages to zero - once businesses don't have to spend money on payroll, they'll hire people like mad. We'll have full employment.
Of course, none of their customers will have any money to buy anything. Besides - we all know minimum wage jobs are not 'real' jobs so who cares, right?
It's not really a problem. If everyone would just work smarter and harder, and stop spending money on lattés, everyone could be rich. The real scandal is that people just don't want to make the effort. They all want free stuff from the government.
Now give me my tax cuts and go away.
5
Beyond all doubt, the minimum wage is the most contentious economic issue out there. The right says it distorts the market and increases unemployment. The left says that nobody in America should be paid paltry wages. I choose not to join the fray.
Bottom line, the Board's proposal is taking off the gloves and going bare knuckled. No more Mr. Nice Guy. Going in for the kill.
I'm a Democrat but it's plain as day. The Board is reckless. No mouth guard, no helmet, no pads. Multiple concussions right away. CTE a year or two down the line.
1
Better late that never, but NYT is awfully late to this party. It's been half a decade since Bernie almost single-handedly brought this idea to the forefront of the nation's consciousness. The argument here is based on the economic sense the policy makes. But what about the moral argument - that no one who works 40 hours a week should go hungry or that tax dollars should have to be used to enable low-wage workers to have a roof over their head and food on the table, while the companies that pay them profit from socialism for the rich and powerful so that executives can be paid hundreds of times what low-level employees earn? It shouldn't have taken NYT half a decade to support a living minimum wage on these moral grounds, alone.
2
Remember when the Democrat (and NYT readership) consensus in 2016 was that Bernie's plans were too "pie in the sky" and "nonpragmatic" - including the proposed $15 minimum wage? I remember. But now that I've got the "I told you so" part out of the way, come on aboard.
1
WE are a consumer society. More pay and everyone wins. Less pay and....guess? When we can't afford to splurge and then have the ability to pay it back then....we are doomed like a small town with NO jobs.
What a deal for a lot of people, such has:
1) people in the automation/AI industry it should do wonders for their sales & business.
2) A real boon to the 3rd world has even more jobs are moved to the 3rd world in the service of company profits and labor arbitrage.
3) Should be a good deal for illegals working under the table has well it should up their employment nicely.
For the average worker not such a good deal. Way to many jobs are barely viable at $12- 15, but make more sense to ship off or automate at anymore wages. The fact is labor now competes on a global basis. And wages like this? Just ensures even more jobs in the 3rd world but won't do much of anything for the locals. So go ahead double the minimum wage people in Costa Rica, Mexico & Malaysia will thank you people in States? Probably not so much. As long has labor must compete globally? Wages are only headed in one direction! Down!!!!
1
If we did this, then we wouldn't have nearly as much poverty and wealth inequality in this country. So, needless to say, for Republicans, it's out of the question. After all, poverty and wealth inequality are their bread and butter.
3
Mitch McConnell and the obstructionist Republicans must be removed from office post haste. They are standing in the way of justice for low-wage workers and stacking the deck in favor of megacorporations. The GOP is the biggest threat to American prosperity.
2
So, you’re saying Bernie Sanders was right and has been right all along?
1
ONE OF THE BIGGEST LIES Perpetrated since the times of Ronnie Ray Gun, is that paying and treating employees fairly was too much of a burden for business. Trump put the lie to that even more forcefully, with his tax "overhaul" that is a welfare program for the 1%. It is the largest transfer of wealth from the 99% to the 1% in US history, to the tune of between $1.6 and $2.2 TRILLION over the next 10 years, with another $1 TRILLION planned to be ripped off from the 99% to the 1% again. Of course people can't afford to pay decent wages while paying for Trump's stealing from the poor to give to the rich. On this point, I am frustrated, since Trump supporters are permitting themselves to be scammed, conned, ripped off and robbed by him and his policies. Proof his history of robbing of people is that he paid $25 million for damages and fraud perpetrated against students in the Trump "university." Of course, the agreement included no admission of guilt on Trump's part. He's never at fault. Just think of his White House lawn madcap antics when he blurted out his delusions of grandeur about being the savior and the chosen one. There was some allusion to his believing that he's Jesus. But that's a long shot, since the name is popular among Hispanics, whom we all know Trump is torturing at the Southern Border, where he's perpetrating Crimes Against Humanity, for which he must be charged and tried in the International Criminal Court.
1
Greedy corporatists sold out their country's economy. They should clean up the mess they made instead of hard working people struggling for a $15 an hour paycheck that won't do much more than keep them treading water.
1
and while they're at it, how about a decent 'wage' for us on social security trying to make it on under -way under- minimum wage???
1
It sure is easy to spend other people's money.
1
@Ross
Yep. It sure is easy for CEO's to spend money their workers brought in.
1
I have no problem with doubling the minimum wage but it will result in less employment opportunities for low skilled labor and more opportunity for illegal labor that will work for nearly nothing. But that is part of the plan the Democrats have for America, to promote low skilled labor, promise them Federal freebies, and build an enslaved constituency. Thank you.
2
These jobs will be automated soon anyway.
2
@M
Looking forward to the day the robots take over the NYT Editorial Board!
Those most opposed to the minimum in general are fast food companies that rely on desperate workers to sling their noxious trash into our bodies.
Fast food companies use slave labor to sell unhealthy food made from tortured animals while polluting our land and water. Their trash fills our roadsides and waterways. They externalize every cost: pollution, the resulting poor health of their customers, their waste disposal, and horrific animal abuse, to name a few, while keeping all the profits.
Make them pay a living wage at least. That would be a minimum start to rectify the direct, tremendous damage they do to all of us!
1
"Paying good wages is not charity at all- it is the best kind of business."
-Henry Ford
1
It's an outrage that this minimum wage figure has remained at the same level for 10 years, leaving so many workers at rates below a livable wage and setting a low bar for minimums across the country even if many states have wisely chosen to increase minimums well beyond the federal level. All this talk about employment numbers, a good economy and so on--empty and deceptive rhetoric given the living conditions of many who are in the low income to middle income categories.
The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the wealthy/entitled power brokers continue to blow smoke. And, of course, Trump boasts about how we're all "rich" because of him. Sickening.
1
Why didn’t Obama double the minimum wage? Or that’s right, he only had a Democratic House and Senate for two years.
2
Does the New York Times have any legitimate economists working for them? There really should be no federal minimum wage. Let the market dictate what it is worth to fill take out orders at McDonalds.
1
I live in Indiana where the minimum wage is still $7.25.
Yes, most big employers have to pay more to get workers, but they don't want ANY increase to the federal minimum wage.
Why? If they can't sustain their jacked -up profit margins, they MUST be able to take out any losses on workers.
Greed.
Good old greed keeps states like Indiana determined to keep the minimum wage low. They can keep their foot on labor's throat.
And they do the same with teachers' salaries, by the way.
Our salaries are a disgrace.
3
15usd/hr is long overdue. It would help the employees to stand proud. No food stamps. Increased purchasing power. Everyone wins! You really need to be a really cheap republican to deny that simple fact!
Maybe the NYT Editorial Board should have a field trip up and down Madison Avenue. A lot of retail stores have had to close up shop on Madison Ave. and across the country thanks to high rents. Do you think raising the minimum wage will help to bring those stores back? Retail stores (bricks and mortar) are struggling. A $15.00 minimum wage should put another couple of nails in retail's coffin.
I know how much the NYT loves independent bookstores. How many independent bookstores would be left in the USA if the minimum wage went to $15.00? Maybe Bernie and Warren will subsidize independent bookstores too.
Has anyone on the NYT Editorial Board ever had a real job?
Has anyone on the NYT Editorial Board ever run a business?
I read these editorials and I seriously wonder if anyone on this board ever steps out of the NYT glassed-in tower.
Right now, the USA is living with great employment numbers. If a business needs workers ASAP, they know how to get them. Offer a higher wage and they will come. Let the market take care of this. Don't put the small business owner out of business.
3
Lets just pay everyone $25.00 hour regardless of education or credential, how does that sound?
2
@Marc A Why stop there? Why not make it $50 or $100 an hour, since NYT and many liberals think raising the minimum wage will have magical results.
It just felt wrong to suggest that the average minimum wage is the highest its been since the 1960s. I went to the CPI calculator and took that average $11.80 per hour and used the calculator to deflate it to the first minimum wage I remember getting, $2.05/hour in 1972. Lo, and behold, $11.80 today would have been worth only $1.99 back then.
But, to be fair, I went to the linked article that the claim was based on. Maybe the methodology was more complicated, although it didn't really appear to be. One of the reader's comments on that article hit the nail exactly on the head. "Average minimum wage" is a nonsense statistic. If you're making $7.25 per hour, it doesn't matter to you that the average is higher, all that matters is whether you can support yourself.
Absolutely Congress needs to double the federal minimum wage.
Reminds me of the arguments made in "Inequality for All", the documentary by Robert Reich, Clinton's Secretary of Labor. In it, a multimillionaire who made his money in manufacturing points out that a raise in his income sits in his bank accounts/investment accounts, almost unnoticed. Whereas a raise in the income of his workers gets spent on things that actually stimulate the economy. Makes sense.
1
Dear Humans, please read this again: the single most important bulwark against societal collapse and revolution is the maintenance of a middle class. Lather, rinse, repeat. Feel free to consult the history books. It must be maintained at all costs, including subsidizing it. This isn't about economics and free market principles. It's about survival. I am a capitalist and a firm believer in free market principles, but I'll get behind anything that promotes peace and harmony. Poverty is enemy number one, always has been, and always will be.
13
An important issue that isn’t mentioned is IQ distribution across any society.
We all (or at least I used to) think that if someone is willing to work hard - even if they don’t have formal education beyond high school - they’ll slowly but surely work their way up to something significantly above minimum wage by the time they’ve been in the work force for a decade or so.
But I’ve come to observe that some folks on the lower end of the spectrum of what is considered “normal” ( say IQ 70-80), are perhaps just not capable of working their way up and out of minimal wage type work. Ever.
(And yes, I know IQ is an imperfect way of measuring capability. I’m just using it here for ease of discussion....)
6
Employers will lie to you too. Tell you if you work hard for a low wage, there will be raises and promotions. Then you do, but they don’t hold up their end of the bargain. There’s always an excuse why there’s money for everything but your raise. So you go somewhere else, and the process repeats. Go through this enough times, and you feel like why should I bust my behind for an employer who isn’t going to give me a raise or a promotion no matter what they say? I have heard it all. Once an airplane hit the radio station I worked for a week before I was set to go full time. Sometimes it really feels like I have a target painted on me or something.
3
No, the powers that be need a low minimum wage so that more young people, discouraged by the low minimum, will volunteer for our endless wars around the globe.
1
The problem is the “federal” part. $15 in Jackson, Miss. is entirely different from $15 in San Francisco, Calif. This is a state or even county issue.
33
@John McWade Considering that this is a local issue is a vote for no change, that is the problem.
This IS a federal issue; ask the workers who make $7 an hour!
10
@John McWade Any federal law would have to take the cost of housing into account and vary the rate accordingly.
1
@John McWade
Which really means that the minimum wage in San Francisco should be $30.
7
And then index the MW for inflation. If we did this, we would never need to have this fight again.
W/o indexing, we are doomed to having this fight over and over again.
4
The insanity of the $15/hr minimum wage is obvious. Different cost of living in the USA, different conditions in rural vs urban situations, raising the minimum wage over the wages paid to professionals, destruction of small businesses, and so on are well documented.
The USA is already one of the most expensive countries to visit. It's dangerous, it's expensive. If we institute a country-wide $15 wage, expect to see tourism plummet. No one in any other country could afford to visit here.
2
Starting Jan 1, 2020 my wife and I will be starting our 24th year in retirement. Our collective net increase of social security income (after Medicare copay) will be $19.00 per month. Based on a 40 hour work week, our collective increase is $0.05 per hour.
Medicare co pays are well worth it, but it would be nice to have a few more "disposable" dollars.
A short read in Forbes is quite telling "Six Ways Social Security Will be Changing In 2020." (Boomers take note!)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidrae/2019/09/09/social-security-changes-2020/#9d90aed67520
If productivity increases were factored in the minimum wage would be around $20 per hour . See www.growthemiddleclass.com
2
If we're dreaming big...eliminate a separate minimum for tipped. Then we can go back to tipping for exceptional service, instead of tipping for compassion.
Gradually raise the minimum wage while decreasing the definition of full-time. If they can roughly balance so take-home remains steady or somewhat higher, all the better. There are plenty of people who aren't working who would like to be (think long-term unemployed, who don't tend to get counted, and the folks scrambling from contract to contract).
Single payer. Whole body - eyes, teeth, brain - can't honestly divorce ourselves from any of these as far as physical health goes. Less administration mess for the employer, less stress for employees who have a stable system of health care. I'm sure we can't cover everything, but I think the country can do better. And I'm sure some companies will still offer gold-plated plans for their VIPs. Nothing wrong with add-ons, once the essentials are taken care of.
Then we can tackle getting literate teachers and adequate schools...and get the kids back out onto the playground and bring the joy back into learning!
2
The basis of our economy is the consumer - the man or woman in the street. Isn't putting more money in their hands in exchange for their labor the most obvious and direct way of stimulating the market? We are constantly being reminded that the average American household would be unable to deal with an unexpected $400 expense. What is the point of more automation to produce more goods if the average household can't afford to buy them?
4
There are different ways to look at this issue.
First, I was paid $1.25 per hour for my first job back in 1965. According to an online inflation calculator that would be just shy of $10.50 today. I was a high school kid not looking to support a family.
Second, $15/hr X 40 hrs/wk works out to about $30K/yr. For a single earner trying to support a family with two children that does not work. However, for two earners it does.
Third, I spent two weeks in Australia recently where the minimum wage is $21 AU or about $14/hr. Sydney alone has 385 crane shots working as there are building everywhere, housing prices are rising and economy is doing just fine. Also, no tipping. Same in New Zealand—pay a decent wage and workers do not have to grovel for tips.
Finally, minimum wage jobs should be entry as workers move to better paying jobs as they gain skills and complete education. But, the government has allowed many hourly jobs to be declared salaried which eliminates overtime and workers find that they are working for minimum wage. It is not just the minimum wage that needs to be fixed.
2
"Second, $15/hr X 40 hrs/wk works out to about $30K/yr. For a single earner trying to support a family with two children that does not work. However, for two earners it does."
But after taxes, health care, rent, car payments, student and credit card debt it doesn't leave much. And with two kids, add on expensive day care.
2
Why not peg the minimum wage to a percentage, which would be the same nationwide, of the overall wage of each county? This would account for regional variation, not just across states, but across urban-rural divides. It would draw business to low-wage exurban and rural counties, eventually raising their wages through growth, which is ultimately what you want. And it would be fair.
The bill would include funds for counties to collect wage statistics under federal oversight. The county minimum wage would be updated annually, with notice given to businesses at least 6 months in advance, and would be sticky downward (would never decrease).
The logic for raising the federal minimum wage is so compelling that there ought to be a bipartisan effort in Congress to get it done. The fact, however, that in 2020 there will be a presidential election – and a very unusual one, at that – complicates things.
Republican candidates for the House and Senate, as well as Republican candidates for virtually every state office in the South, the Southwest and the Prairie states, will use an increase in the federal minimum wage as part of their anti-Washington song and dance.
These G.O.P. politicians will be egged on by their leader, Donald Trump, until and unless at the last minute he issues an Executive Order or Tweet to announce that, as a stable genius, he now supports a raise.
1
@sdw The voters overwhelmingly support an increase its only bad for the oligarchs and they are fast becoming irrelevant.
@DG
As long as the Supreme Court under Chief Justice Roberts is supportive of any and all types of voter suppression against likely Democratic voters which the G.O.P. dreams up, your observation that the oligarchs are "becoming irrelevant" will never happen.
My favorite coffee shop closed on Christmas Eve. The owner, a very good guy, cited a big increase in rent and a big jump in the minimum wage. Apparently the landlord saw his success and wants a bigger piece of the action.
Jeff employed a lot of people, students mostly, to give good service and to be a good citizen, so the minimum wage increase hit him hard. He said he'd have to double his prices. I know the math doesn't quite work out but I assume he has factored in the reduced business a big price increase would cause. Some of his customers would go to the Starbucks down the road our the Dunkins across the street; they didn't have to raise their prices, our only raised them a little, since the wage increase is of little consequence to a large corporation.
And that's the issue. When we think of minimum wage increase, we think of the Target checkout people or the burger flippers at Burger King. Those corporations are better able to weather the wage increases. We don't think of the mom and pop businesses. Some will have to close. If you think that's a small price to pay for economic justice, fine. And if you believe we are better off all working at large corporations that can afford $15 per hour, fine. But make sure you understand.
6
I'd rather go to Starbucks than Dunking.
A single anecdote always was and always will be unpersuasive.
Very nice. Nice research, nice opinions. I agree...
You know what study I'd like to see next, a study we have to prepare now, before any national increase in the minimum wage?
I'd like to see a poverty-level cost of living study.
What do landlords, what does the government do in response to widespread increases in the lowest levels of income?
Does the price of Frosted Flakes double?
Do rents suddenly, coincidentally increase across the board?
Do taxes rise? Tuition increase? Utilities go up?
Because while I certainly endorse any meaningful increase, I somehow fail to see halcyon days for the poor on our immediate horizon.
That's not who we are as a nation. That's not what we expect of our business people. And it is in no way how we imagine treating the poorest among us.
1
I strongly disagree. The system is working as is. Leave the minimum wage to the states who can set it based on local conditions. Over half have already raised their minimum wage above the federal minimum. This editorial is nothing more than an attempt to force a federal solution on what should be up to the states. Economic conditions in New York are different from those in Alabama. Let Alabama deal with this issue locally.
Abolish the federal minimum and leave it to the states. Enough big government.
6
First, let me acknowledge that the evidence that raising minimum wages reduces employment is mixed; however, we are entering an age of accelerating technology substitution and it is very risky to bet that this well intentioned action could have devastating impact on millions of people. Second, states are a much better jurisdiction for managing minimum wages as the cost of living varies dramatically across the nation. Cost of living differences between places like San Francisco & New York versus rural locations are dramatic. If the Federal government sets the minimum rate, it will be too low in high cost areas and too high in low cost regions.
1
And with the wage increase, all other necessities, including a cell phone with data, need to stay steady with no increases. I hope someday regular people will once again be able to afford the newspaper, and have enough leisure time to read it.
This is an issue where one size does not fit all. The difference in cost of living between rural Alabama and urban NYC or San Francisco is dramatic. The federal minimum wage should be relatively low because of this. States have and should continue to enact higher minimums that fit their specific situations. Also the idea of indexing minimum wages to inflation is not a good one. Even though most Americans have trouble remembering high inflation tying wages to prices in the past contributed to spiraling inflation and was then and is now a bad idea.
1
Instead of passing along the minimum wage increase to consumers, it should be paid for by a surtax on wealth. Thus, for those couples earning $15 an hour, they would join the Middle Class and be able to afford the consumer benefits of the Middle Class. Enlarging the Middle Class benefits the entire economy. It is money in the pockets of the Middle Class that fuels the dynamic of the US economy, not money in the pockets of the wealthy.
1
For reference a nickel in 1982 is now 13 cents the 1.65 I started work at is now in the 12$ range. At those prices I ate egg salad sandwich’s and soup everyday. My base salary of 329$ of 1975 is now about 1400$. We are falling behind and and giving away the store to the wealthy in the hopes they will be nice. It’s never going to happen.
3
I see little discussion here of what constitutes a fair wage. Here are a few suggestions based on the exploitive jobs I've had:
If the job requires you to have transportation and there is no functioning public transportation, emphasis on functioning, the job must pay enough for savings and financing a car that does not endanger the worker's credit score.
If a job requires a college education, then the job must cover the cost of student loans and families to save to educate their own children.
Put an end to $1-2,000 deductibles that are a barrier to accessing healthcare for the bottom half of the income scale making a farce of having health insurance.
Just doubling minimum wage does not cut it. There must be serious discussion about what it takes to be a contributing citizen in this country. I have yet to hear any meaningful discussion about the cost of living that isn't subsistence that keep people on the edge of homelessness.
Enough already. Get on with Real Talk about wages.
3
A Federal minimum wage makes no sense to me.
Regional minimum wages make sense.
15 dollars an hour in New York city is probably equivelant to 8 dollars an hour where I live.
Costs of living are not the same everwhere.
3
There is no point in arguing for a higher (ie living) wage as the superrich who run the country would never allow it.
2
You can always tell when someone - or a 'gaggle' of someones - has never run anything more complex than a lemonade stand - double basic wage costs in one fell swoop - sure - that makes sense.
2
@SteveRR No one has said it should be in one fell swoop. All minimum wage increases in recent memory have been implemented as stepwise increases over a period of years. As the article correctly notes, none of them have had a net negative effect on jobs—but all have had a major positive impact to the lives of workers.
1
I know many people who own profitable businesses. Some make a point of paying their employees well. Other do not, claiming they can’t afford to. In more than a few cases I notice the ones who say they can’t pay people more have a nice new Mercedes as the company car, another for their spouse, a 4,500 sq. ft house, a second home on a lake. Not hard to see where the money goes.
So in these instances the issue is greed. In other cases, where people aren’t paid decently, maybe the business isn’t doing all that well and the money isn’t there. In still others, the business is at a size where the owner is comfortable and keeps his people happy. And maybe he/she is keeping costs down while preparing for an exit. In large companies it’s all about keeping stockholders happy.
But bigger picture, if wages go up so will prices.... of everything a business sells. Wages and the prices of goods and services are not entirely linear. And when wages go up across all providers of a product or service the difference really doesn’t matter because customers adjust to higher prices. Take the prices of bread and milk, for instance.
All people need a living wage and it has to be tied to inflation and cost of living, as well as regional economics. Companies will generally not do this on their own. After all that Mercedes and the lake house aren’t cheap! So the government has to step in. I do t like it, but some regulations make sense.
1
Sorry but I do not agree. We need to totally fix our broken education system so that by the time students graduate from HS they have a skill that will enable them to get a decent job - welders, carpenters, car mechanics, painters, hair stylists, technicians, etc. We graduate kids who can't read, do basic math. Do we pay these people $15 an hour?
1
While limited it sounds like the evidence indicates some people would lose their job. One on one what would you say to that man or woman? I know it's tough, but take one for the team.
Every time I hear this, I just shake my head. I can scream until I lose my voice- "RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE DOESN'T WORK." Aside from the fact that most people aren't even earning minimum wage, save seasonal and temporary workers or food service employees, which overall constitute a slim percentage of the population, the minimum wage is seen by markets as an indicator of buying power. Which means... all you're doing is creating inflation when you raise it, making day to day living more expensive because there's the perception of more money to go around. And of course, this is notwithstanding that smaller businesses that rely on the aforementioned labor on often on razor thin profit margins, so you're making it harder for them to operate.
I can't comprehend all this. We're always so concerned with how to pay for everything, when we're not doing anything to address how costs got so high in the first place! Tax the rich, tax the corporations! It's all moot if cost of living keeps on increasing at an unsustainable pace, not withstanding that it always seems there are loopholes for the wealthy and taxes always disproportionately fall on the middle and upper middle class. Supply side economics people! Look at why college tuition is so high. Look at why housing is so expensive. Determine ways to cut costs and establish reasonable profit margins so we're not paying an arm and a leg, AND the markets don't take a huge hit and cause people to lose work.
3
@Joshua "Every time I hear this, I just shake my head. I can scream until I lose my voice- "RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE DOESN'T WORK." "
Proof please.
1
And who will do all the heavy lifting. Low wage workers.
1
Given all the tax breaks that have been given to companies I think we can claw back the subsidy of supporting poorly paid workers with public support (food stamps, medical, housing etc) we the tax payers provide by supporting full time workers who don’t make enough to support themselves on minimum wage.
1
Opponents argue that it may increase prices . So what is the truth. Take McDonalds for example. If the minimum wage is increased to $15 how much does the average meal at McDonalds increase.
1
Good way to combat rampant obesity -- and help people cook ingredients from fresh!
Even if the Democratic plan of a $15 minimum wage by 2025, those workers will still be under water. Do the math: for an 8 hour day, a $15 dollar minimum wage computes to $120 per day, $600 per week, $30K per year. That would leave such workers with zero discretionary income. How does that help them or the national economy?
Two thumbs-up!
Over the past 12-years (minimum) large employers have chosen to suppress their cost by hiring adults at minimum wage.
The only other solution would be to create two minimum wages: 1) slightly lower for teenage/non-head-of-household/inexperienced & part-time labor; and 2) basic adult minimum wage which would dignify the work of a person seeking to survive in the real world.
It's time to regulate the unbridled capitalism that dehumanizes the poor.
3
Many of the places that pay minimum wage are frequented by the middle class, who are benefited by minimum wage increases. It's a virtuous circle, and why unions propped up our middle class so well for decades last century.
Now we have a President that borrows money for billionaires, fights against workers and still some people think he's on their side. I don't get it. What's the point of a happy Wall Street when Main Street can't afford doctors?
I'm surprised Montana has a minimum wage for servers. I have traveled out there and of all things, found eating out really affordable compared to other places. It certainly has not raised the prices on menus in the state relative to other places.
End of the day, it costs taxpayers when employers do not pay a living wage. It puts more strain on the healthcare system, housing, transportation, crime, schools. So we end up subsidizing employers in our communities who choose not to pay a living wage,
2
The article posits that higher minimum wages have been helpful. Yet we see story after story of small business being harmed by higher minimum wages. Restaurant closures are becoming more common due to higher labor costs. But if a higher minimum wage is so great, why not make it $50/hr? Has to be better, right?
Or consider the opposite approach. Switzerland has one of the strongest per capita income levels on earth. They also have very low unemployment. What’s their minimum wage? Zero. How then is that possible for Switzerland?
2
Because they are paid properly they don't need a minimum wage.
1
Switzerland does not have a minimum wage on the federal level but some Cantons, such as Neuenburg, have a minimum wage of 20 Francs (~21USD). Additionally, different industries have different general labor agreements that apply as a minimum standard for all workers. For example the minimum income for a full time worker in the gastronomy sector is 3400 Francs (~3522USD) per month extra paid vacation days a 13th monthly salary.
So yeah, that's how "it" works in Switzerland...
4
I've said it before and I'll say it again: There's absolutely no reason to have a fixed dollar amount on the federal minimum wage. The idea makes no sense.
Let's take the proposed Democratic legislation as an example. $15 an hour in 2025, right? Well, if you use inflation over the last five years as a guide, $15 an hour in 2025 is really only worth $13.82 right now. You would actually need a minimum wage of $16.28 in 2025 to produce an equivalent purchasing power.
Speaking of purchasing power, the value of a dollar changes based on where you live. This seems obvious. The average cup of Coffee in California costs about $3.00. In New England, you're looking at something more like $2.00. The same thing is true with rents and just about everything else. However, a fixed minimum wage ignores geographical price variances.
In other words, fixed minimum wages change over time and space. Politicians are perfectly aware of the problem. So why don't they write legislation that automatically adjusts for inflation and cost of living? It's easy. I just did it with a google search and a calculator. I suspect the reason is politicians want to save minimum wage as turf for future political battles. They want to fight the same fight over and over again. It gives them something to talk about.
That's why we keep having the same conversation we were having in the 1930s.
2
"I've said it before and I'll say it again"
I wouldn't bother. Your point isn't very good.
1
I am so tired of how this country acts with extreme caution when it comes to the general well-being of its citizenry (wages, healthcare), but overwhelming urgency when it comes to the specific well-being of corporations and the wealthy (tax breaks, defense increases).
Many who oppose a modest and reasonable federal minimum wage, or want exceptions here or there, have no actual solution to the following basic math problem: if you work 40 hours each week and earn less than half of what you need to survive, what do you do?
8
The US is a corporate society ie run for the benefit of the super wealthy and with a cultural system which sustains them. Isn't that obvious?
2
Minimum wage should be at least $20.
1
Raising the minimum wage is just another way to weaken unions. It was unions who bargained for pay and benefits in union contracts. If you wanted a raise you worked for a union employer or you joined or formed a union to get health care.
Why join a union if the government is going to get you everything that you formerly had a union to represent you and get this for you.
Unions should do three things: negotiate contracts, settle grievances, and organize. They should stay out of political issues.
Don't raise the minimum wage. Instead repeal the Taft-Hartly provisions of the National Labor Relations Act to restore the strength of the union and remove government control and weakening of unions.
1
What is it about You People.
The states have raised the minimum wage, but it would be better if the nation did it.
And even better if the North American continent did it.
How about the Western Hemisphere?
No, a Planet Earth minimum wage is the answer.
I don't suppose that you have considered the possibility that certain states have lower living standards that, say, other states?
And that a minimum wage for Californians is a Jackpot in Mississippi.
And that raising the cost of low-wage jobs, in spite of your assurances to the contrary, will result in lower cost for products produced in low wage countries?
I wonder why all the cell phones are made in East Asian nations.
Because people who eat rice have smaller fingers?
To borrow a line from H.L. Mencken (and, possibly Mark Twain before him), "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
And you have found one.
2
Unfortunately while having terrific aphorisms, H.L. Mencken was very, very right wing.
1
@G Rayns
Of course!
How could I have been so foolish?
But it is O. K. because Mark Twain was very, very, very, very, left wing.
So that evens it out.
What is it about You People.
Facts are irrelevant, all that matters is the political persuasion of the author.
Remind you of someone?
Fake news, perhaps?
In Ontario the minimum wage was raised to $14 an hour about two years ago. Businesses are still hiring and restaurants and stores are still employing students and full time workers. Raising the minimum wage toward a living wage benefits everyone including businesses.
2
The federal minimum wage should be tied to the cost of living. So too Social Security -- at its baseline. People having enough to live on will do so by spending on basics which will boost the economy as a whole.
2
The problem with statistics is you can generate the answer you want. Not the real truth.
That being said Federal minimum wage should have always been indexed to inflation. It's ludicrous to claim that a wage can stay flat, living costs rise and that's all ok.
Yes, certain businesses like restaurants, which include tips can generate high wages. But you can't have it both ways. All or nothing.
3
Shelter, food, transportation, healthcare,..., Cost of these essential items is the formula for any minimum wage. The path to a fair living wage is at the ballot box.
2
What I don't understand is how this works out for small, isolated, rural town. In these towns, the dollars "balance sheet" will be completely up-ended if each working resident gets and additional 15K or so (min from 7-15). The town will have not increased its ability to bring outside dollars in BUT it will be loosing dollars at a much higher rate. Seems like it has to go bankrupt or the real world equivalent...empty out.
Yes, things in the economy need to change to spread the wealth. And yes using the power of the US government to lend "power" to the low wage workers and poor is needed. It can't be the only thing
3
Another unintended consequence of raising the minimum wage to $15/hour would be pricing people out of health care subsidies under the ACA.
Once singles and families in New York State earn more than 2 x the Federal Poverty Level, they are no longer eligible for subsidies under the Affordable Care guidelines. Rates for high deductible health care plans for singles are $480/month with a $2,000 annual deductible. Where will a single person earning $30,000 a year come up with $2,000 a year to cover an annual deductible????
We need to change much more than the minimum wage.
3
So we increase the minimum wage to $10 or $12 or $15, or whatever and two or three years down the road we’ll likely be having the same discussion? Enough! Until we do a couple of things this problem will never go away. So why don’t we set a minimum wage and then adjust it annually to the cost of living much as we do with social security? This will not solve the problem alone but it will help. Another thing that with help families And businesses throughout the country is an effective partnership between industry and government to provide real job training for all Americans. Companies are constantly complaining about new or potential hires who just don’t have the skills they need. Cooperation between local colleges and businesses has proven effective but what about real internships with companies where there is a real job at the end of a certain period of time? These actions alone will not necessarily solve the problem of providing a living wage for everyone but they will make a huge difference immediately because these actions are easily doable since we know how to adjust a minimum wage as we do with SS and I can promise you that a small working group of business and government could quickly develop a cost efficient but effective job training/internship program. Isn’t it time we focused on real solutions that have the potential to really solve our problems?
1
Will tipping finally be eliminated if the minimum wage for waiters, bartenders, etc. is raised?
I support a $20 minimum in prosperous urban areas, but worry that much of the increase in pay will go to ever higher rents. After all, it will just make higher rents ‘affordable’ by a much greater number of people.
Two points buried deep in the article:
1. Suggesting that the extra costs to the employer can be covered by raising prices. How does this help the minimum wage worker? If the things they buy cost them more, doesn’t it stand to reason that they may actually lose by forcing the minimum wage higher?
2. The use of kiosks at McDonalds. By forcing companies to pay unskilled labor ever increasing wages, government is forcing companies to invest in robots. The checkout at my local Walmart is now unmanned. The consumer checks himself out. Not only does it reduce labor costs, it opens up every checkout aisle since there is no longer the need to have a worker at every aisle.
The law of unintended consequences is at work here and this intrusion of government will, I predict, prove to be irreparably harmful to the people they claim to help.
6
Your first point is only valid if the inflation caused by wage increases (which may not even exist) exceeds the rise in pay.
Your second point is moot. Unmanned checkout counters were likely coming regardless of wage changes. Allowing a customer to pay for the privilege of self checkout is always preferable to paying an employee.
The real point here is that labor is a derived demand so companies will always hire enough workers to meet their needs. No more, no less.
4
Check this out. I went into a new McDonald's and a lady asked me o order with it .I said no so a person took my order.Go figure.
See Yang, Andrew.
Anyone working 40 hours a week should earn enough to pay his or her bills. In most of the country, that requires at least $15 per hour ($30,000 a year).
You should not have to go into debt or apply for social services if you work full time (in one or more jobs). This is about the dignity of work. This is about basic human decency.
For singles or couples without children, I'm talking about living frugally and modestly, in a studio or 1BR apartment, buying groceries instead of eating out, and using inexpensive transportation. (A used car, or public transportation where possible, but rent is usually higher in transit-friendly or walkable/bikable locations.) It gets even more difficult when supporting children.
Living on a $15/hr wage in most of the country does not include the ability to save money, take vacations, pay for cable TV, or any other extravagances that many of us take for granted.
11
Research debunking the thesis that raising the minimum wage must significantly harm employment was proffered by Richard A. Lester, a professor of Economics at Princeton, in the 1940s.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/1802256?seq=1
4
Congressmen, senators, and the executive branch should be paid minimum wage - then we'll see it raise for the average worker...
8
All these non-business owners weighing in.
Doubling the minimum wage would crush many small businesses.
Check out the restaurant scene in Seattle where several long time businesses have had to close.
8
"Several" had to close? That's your argument against fair pay? "Several" business close everyday in low wage states too.
3
Less than 1% of workers are on minimum wage and very few are adults, it’s not a federal issue, but rather a state one
And certainly national politicians need to stay out of the issue
6
@hawk please define adults. In my neck of the woods I see plenty of adults working minimum wage jobs.
2
I believe that instead of having a maximum income on which you pay social security taxes, you should have a MINIMUM where you DON'T pay. This would mean workers below the minimum would take home 6.2% more in their paychecks, and employers would pay 6.2% less to the government on all of those workers.
This does NOT mean that these workers do not get Social Security. If you remove the cap, Social Security would collect all the money it currently does, AND be able to exempt the lowest tier from paying. As long as they put in their 40 quarters of work, however (which is reported to the feds to comply with income tax laws), they would earn a Social Security benefit.
I haven't done a formal analysis (and any one i can do is limited, because the IRS releases income data in ranges only and many years after the fact) in a few years, but exempting the first $12 an hour of income from the social security tax while removing the cap would lower social security taxes for everyone up to about $160,000 in income (that's most of us by far), lower business taxes, and ameliorate any increase in a minimum wage.
Pair the two measures?
4
@Leigh LoPresti
You need to describe the whole SS story. There’s a tendency to only talk tax and not benefits.
Currently, with creditable earnings of $10,000 annually, your benefit at full retirement age is $7500. If you’ve contributed the maximum to SS over your working life, your benefit is ~$36,100. So the benefit ranges from 75% to ~28.2%. In addition, if you have significant retirement income, some fraction of your SS benefit is itself taxable income. This sounds pretty progressive to me! It could be the most progressive program we have. This begs the question, how progressive is fair?
And maybe we should save some tax leverage to support universal health care. While SS is projected to spend $1,100B in 2020 [$900B in old age benefits plus $150B in disability plus $60B in SSI], the health care bill in the USA last year was $3,650B. Using taxes to displace any significant part of the healthcare spend will consume any appetite for new taxes.
1
This could be devastating to non-profits and lead to big reductions in services to people needing them as. Result of much higher wages. Personally I am for it, it it would cripple my organization and result in higher hunger rates among seniors. And before you say it, mo, all volunteers is not the solution in this day .
1
It could also lead to fewer people needing assistance from non-profits.
3
America is not a business.
America is a nation state.
The President of the United States is not a businessman,
The President is the head of government and state.
Economics is not a science.
Economists are not scientists.
There are too many variables and unknowns to craft the double-blind and/or randomized controlled experimental tests that provide predictable and repeatable results.
5
Is astronomy a science? They lack the ability to perform any tests with controlled variables. Economists have very powerful statistical tools that allow processing of large numbers of variables at once. We have to rely on natural experiments (where country A chooses option X and country B chooses option Y to solve the same problem) but we refine our analyses and hypotheses to get to the true nature of the economy. What you e said could apply to many sciences. Just because you don’t understand how we do something, doesn’t mean we aren’t doing it.
1
@An Economist
Yes astronomy is most certainly a science.
Astronomy is based upon chemistry, mathematics and physics.
Einstein' s General and Special Theories of Relativity postulates that all observed physical phenomena vary according to distance and speed except for light and that mass warps space-time aka gravity. Einstein postulated the equivalence of mass and energy.
You are confusing arithmetic with mathematics.
There is no such thing as a universal 'Country A' nor 'Country B' nor 'Option X' nor 'Option Y'.
You don't understand natural science. Calling economics, politics and sociology 'science' is no more plausible than calling history science.
1
Economics is based on choices that people make and the causes and effects of those choices. An easy example would be weather and the impact it has on food purchases. When it is cold or raining, warmer foods and drinks sell better than cold foods and drinks. That cause and effect is simple to understand and study. Isolate the variable and test for other unknown variables using statistical tests. If one might be present, test it in a statistical model. If it increases predictability of the model, keep it.
We’ve been doing this for quite some time and have built some very complex models that do quite well at explaining a lot of human behavior at the microeconomic scale. Macroeconomics lags behind because of the shorter time it’s been around.
You’re right that there is no universal country A or country B. That’s why we are trained and quite good at identifying variables that might also be at play while looking at our models. I’ve read many studies that looked at something relatively simple and had to account for 20 variables and when their model was finished, was quite good at predicting human behaviors. Science doesn’t require perfect experiments as long as you account for all the variables properly.
To cover a field as broad as “history” as science or not is a mistake. Archaeology is a science and part of the study of history. A lot of science is needed to verify documents as legitimate especially if they’re sufficiently old.
1
Never mind the minimum wage - a true equalizer would be to set a maximum wage, say 40x the lowest paid worker in a company, Include all compensation. Tax any excess at 95%
Then watch things level out. Magically, the lower paid workers would see meaningful increases.
6
@Plennie Wingo
Or maybe, instead of giving money to workers, business owners would cash out and hide their untaxed funds in places with a shady history of hiding money like Switzerland.
1
The minimum wage debate concerns trust in the free market. The left has little trust. In fact, I doubt that progressives trust anything about big business.
3
I trust businesses to look out for their investors, not their workers. I trust businesses to work to minimize costs, including wages. I trust businesses to use their vast wealth to accomplish these goals. Businesses look out for themselves, that’s why progressives want government to limit their ability to keep workers at severely low pay.
3
@michjas I trust the free market to create economic growth, at least when it’s not crashing because of fraud and abuse. There is no reason to trust it for anything else.
1
Perhaps if big business gave us any reason to trust them, we would.
NO. NO. NO. Raising the minimum wage is all wrong. Consider what Libertarians advocate instead.
Eliminate the minimum wage completely. Allow people to work for room and board only. That will solve the servant problem.
Consider too that if we allow "VOLUNTARY servitude", especially if we allow the Working Poor to sell their children into slavery, the standard of living for the rest of us can improve, in a big way.
5
I agree. Scandinavian doesn’t have a minimum wage and they get by on room and board.
@Richard
I did not expect anyone to amplify or support what I wrote. Thank you.
Libertarians also support dealing with the very poor by allowing parents to sell their kids to be slaughtered and cooked for dinner. They admire Jonathan Swift's "modest proposal" for handling the starving children of Ireland in the 18th century and think it can work in the 21st century.
1
The research cited ignores cyclical swings in the economy and the long term nature of replacement technologies. 1) the evidence of the destruction of opportunity for min wage increases doesn’t take place during full employment times, it does so during recessions. During the Great Recession, low skilled workers lost jobs at 2x (and greater) that of skilled workers. A $15 min wage would have driven more businesses to close, more workers to lose jobs. 2) investments in supply chain alternatives or technology take time. E.g. Amazon purchased Kiva (robots) in 2012, began rolling out in 2014 and has 100K+ robotic pickers in its warehouses with the equivalent of over 600K fewer low skilled human jobs). 3) The never discussed facts - 1% of the workforce (salary and hourly) make the min wage or lower down from 3.1% in 2011 (per my previous point). Min wage is regional - mostly the south. It is a training wage (regardless of the stories the Press like) - 50% of min wage earners and below 25, 4x are single vs married. 2/3 of the min wage jobs are counted as min wage but are tip and commission driven and earn Greater than min wage.
Net, net, increasing min wage will limit employment for low skilled and young workers. The very people who need jobs will have few job opportunities - Youth unemployment (16-24 year olds) stands is stark contrast to the rest of the economy at 9% today and was 20% during the Great Recession.
4
Let’s start the new year with a real, livable, federal minimum wage of $23.00 per hour. That’s the hourly wage amount needed for a couple or small family to afford an average two-bedroom apartment and still pay the bills. Corporate CEOs and executives and shareholders can afford to take less and instead better distribute more profits among their workers.
And while some claim that such an increase will cause a rise in the cost of products and services, then maybe we don’t really need to buy so much and instead buy what’s really necessary while knowing that the person who made the item or provided the service is living a better life.
14
@Don P. Are the only people who should be able to work “small families”? I’m a student living at home earning $10 an hour. At this point in my life I’m very happy with my salary. I would never have been hired if the minimum wage was $23. There need to be jobs available for young people just starting out. This is what minimum wage should be. The fact that so many people never move on from that level is a failure of the education system not solved by multiplying the minimum wage. -NW
Assuming home ownership is a stretch for a minimum wage earner, what is $15 per hour, say, for a renter? $15 x 40 hours per week x 52 weeks per year = $31,200. The federal income tax rate on this amount is 12% ($3744), for a net income of $27,456, or $2288 per month before state or local taxes. Median rents for one-bedroom apartments in the US hover around $1000 a month, leaving $1288 a month for utility bills, car payment, gas, food, clothing, health insurance, child care, etc.
But median rents vary greatly from region to region, ranging from about $500-$1500 per month, or, after rent has been paid, $1788 versus $788.
It seems that a more fair minimum wage should factor in regional cost-of-living differences. In some regions of the country, $15/hr might be too high. But in other regions, $15/hr could well be too low.
5
Right, those regions are called states and that is what we have already. So your post is a great argument against a federal wage.
3
"For most companies, the bill is relatively small, and it can be defrayed by giving less money to shareholders, or by raising prices."
This statement displays an astounding degree of naivete. Shareholders who receive lower dividends will simply take their money elsewhere, consistent with achieving their targeted returns. And to think a small business can simply raise its prices in a vacuum without losing sales is simply fatuous.
5
The problem is politics. Until political pressures rise high enough, resistance to minimum wages will always outstrip the need, even if lagardly increases occur from time to time. So what to do?
My suggestion: Let wage workers who cannot afford to live on what they earn—all of them—turn instead to crime. That should produce more effective political incentives than begging for welfare.
3
At the level above minimum wage workers, there are a great many people who are pleased to get now something like double the minimum wage.
If everyone gets that, then those people would need to be paid more. Otherwise, they would know they are not valued more than a minimum wage worker. There would be a ripple effect.
When a rise in the minimum wage is small, this does not happen. When it "doubles" then it isn't just minimum wage workers who would benefit.
This would be a good thing, a very good thing.
For far too long, wages/consumer income have fallen as a percentage of our economy. It is crippling demand, and crippling economic growth.
We need this to grow. It is not a threat to growth, it is the stimulus we never got to drag us out of the Great Recession.
4
@Mark Thomason Wouldn’t a ripple effect of wage hikes result in inflation? -NW
@Dr D -- Yes, that would be wage inflation at the lower wage levels.
However, wages are so very depressed, relative to the rest of the economy, that a general rise in wages would have little inflationary effect on prices. That has been the experience so far where it has been tried.
The reason is that there is so much slack to be taken up, from the massive increases in productivity that have so far been exploited without paying labor its normal share for that.
Congressmen make at least $174,000 per year. Some are getting at least $80,000/yr in retirement! But they can’t raise the minimum wage above $7.25/hr.
How much more stingy can you get?
11
I have a cousin in crippling poverty who complained last year that his wages were being raised to $12/hour because people would lose their jobs, businesses need to make a specific amount of money, a lot of people will be hurting, etc. This is what his employer told him. (An employer who convinced him to work for free on occasion several years ago for fear of the business going under and him losing his job, when the minimum wage was much less. Surprise! The business never went under lo these many years later.)
A year later, no one lost their jobs where he works, unemployment is down in our town and state, and he made a tiny bit more money at his part time job.
This year (which will be raised to $13.50) he is saying all the same things, except that *maybe* this year, his employer might have to close the business. Who's telling him this? His employer again.
I have no doubt that if a business is not doing well at all, it might have to close if wages are raised. But in our town specifically and in our entire state, that seems to be the extreme exception. Yet my cousin has been convinced it is the rule. I just don't get it.
16
@Jacob
They believe the lies that they are told by unscrupulous employers.
In my state, a restaurateur was interviewed on TV about how raising wages would effect her business.
Oh, she said she couldn't afford it, she would go under. It wasn't even convincing.
I worked at in restaurant and saw his American Express returns for one month, it $40,000. Nobody uses American Express. I never saw the VISA accounts, but it's probably 3x to 4x greater.
It's disgusting how people are being forced into such bad working conditions.
8
@Jacob years ago I worked at a well known pharmaceutical company. At that point it was a startup. The CEO and founder made sure to pay himself a very good wage. But the rest of us were paid at the low end of the pay scale for our experience and skills. Then there was a layoff. The CEO vowed to hire back all the people that were laid off as soon as the money came back. Guess what; he never did. But the company is viewed as a lifesaver both for the drugs it has discovered and manufactured and the jobs it provides.
I have one big question for the people who pay themselves so richly while paying their employees next to nothing. How much is enough?
4
As a society, we have to direct our attention to where all the profits are going from American industry. If the wealth of some have grown exponentially while everyone else's has stagnated, something's not right because we've all played an essential role. The problem is beyond the minimum wage.
5
@Al
Such as what?
Everyone working a minimum wage job needs a liveable wage, now.
We have people working full time who can't afford to buy food. Or they are living in tent cities.
Here’s the deal: if you’re an employer and you can’t figure out how to pay workers a living wage, you need to find another line of work.
31
Employers discovered they could pay poverty wages & get away with it, and now they are addicted to cheap labor. Whole industries are dependent on paying low wages.
9
@Sherry And if you are one of the only employers in your small rural town, what happens to all the people who worked for you?
Raising the minimum wage might also mean US taxpayers don't have to subsidize large corporations such as Walmart by paying for their food stamps and other needs while Walmart pays them minimum wages. Taxpayers pick up the slack while the owners and board members earn stupendous amounts of money. It's not only unfair, it's short sighted. Henry Ford raised his employees salaries so they could afford to buy his cars. The poor and middle class buy more goods helping the economy.
29
I support the increase of minimum wage, but doubling it ignores differences in costs of living throughout the country, puts too much pressure on businesses, resulting in more layoffs and less hiring, and would disincentivize graduating high school and getting a white collar job. Jobs that currently pay $15 per hour would have to dramatically raise wages to continue to attract workers, and so on and so forth up the ladder. The end result would be massive inflation defeating the entire purpose of the wage hike.
-NW
3
in really well run countries this is not the outcome
@gholleran Is the US a “really well run country”?
-NW
@Dr D
40% of the country has a minimum wage job! What are you talking about is a common myth, that only teenagers and recent high school grads make minimum wage.
Try living on $7.25 an hour, or $10, or even $15 when rents are $1,400. We want people to be independent, but we don't give them the means to do so, it's absolutely immoral.
Instead the taxpayers pick up the tab because corporations aren't fools. Most people who get food stamps work full time.
9
Doubling the minimum wage will NEVER happen, but it allows the author and the Left to sound like they care for the working man. Which by their push for open borders and higher taxes is evident they dont care about the "American" working man. The minimum wage, at a minimum, should be tied to increases in Social Security, with adjustments since 1980 the current federal minimum would be around $10.50 an hour which is a good place to start.
5
@D
You can't live on $10.50 an hour.
OK, I'm a Boomer, but can someone please explain to me how we got here. When I was growing up minimum wage jobs were entry level, low-skill jobs, jobs that were never meant to be a way to make a living. You were to start a minimum wage job, learn new skills and move on and up. What happened to this model?
7
@EFS
That doesn't happen anymore. Not sure why, but it doesn't, and now we have 40% of the population with minimum wage jobs.
3
Many jobs have little in the way of possible advancement anymore.
@EFS because employers refuse to hire adults with experience. It's called age discrimination.
1
Congress should have same salary as minimum wage.
15
@Richard
They do, times 12.
Restaurants in Seattle are closing. Hours worked in high minimum wage cities are decreasing among those paid the minimum wage. In the next recession, employers will not be able to lower wages, which will see massive job losses. Besides all of that, the higher minimum wage benefits the subset of workers who are not fired or have their hours reduced. Increased minimum wage benefits some at the expense of others.
4
@Ben
From July 2008 to June 2009 the US economy lost 4.2 million jobs.
In January 2009 there were 796,000 jobs lost.
How would a National Minimum Wage of $15 change that kind of job market?
@Blank
oh, more scare tactics I see.
Don't you think if everyone got paid more, they could also spend more, like going out to eat more?
@Ben
gee, I wonder why?
outrageous rents for one
artificially low wages for two
40% of the country is stuck in a low wage job, with unliveable wages!
40% of the country can't spend what they don't have, like going out to eat
.
Extreme income inequality is a cancer on our society.
A living wage is, as Henry Ford discovered, a benefit to all.
Corporations should focus on customers and employees, not shareholders and CEO benefits.
When people get off the treadmill, they are more productive and have time and energy to concern themselves with the broader benefit of a social environment that works for everyone.
Greed is never good.
14
Forget "Doubling the Federal Minimum Wage". Let's quadruple it. Nay, quintuple it!
The wise writers at the NY Times obviously know the value of labor, industry by industry, and county by county, and week by week. The Congress should task these writers to establish the wage rates for all of the US economy. As demand for goods and services evolves (say, every five minutes or so), the writers could update the US wage rates accordingly. Of course, the writers would be "rightly" compensated.
As readers may know, a company is now demonstrating a food-service robot that can make 300 custom-tailored pizzas in one hour. And around the corner, commercial drones will be delivering those pizzas to individual doorsteps. That is one of many nonlinear, disruptive factors that look-back analysis of wage rates cannot contemplate.
Anyone who buys the NY Times arguments should read "The Broken Window Fallacy" by Frederic Bastiat: no one knows what might have been if government-mandated prices had not been applied at various times and places.
5
@Joel Sanders
I'd rather talk to a person.
1
Elimination of the Tip Credit is a darling of the left and of labor progressives, however, it is poorly understood by these crusaders.
Most servers will tell you that they prefer earning tips and prefer the current "arms length" arrangement between servers and management.
Elimination of the Tip Credit will ultimately lead to the elimination of tipping. This is not a boon for college age workers and many others who use these jobs as convenient, LUCRATIVE, flexibly scheduled, stepping stones to other careers.
Many outside the hospitality business see tipping as some sort of barbaric, patriarcal system of servitude.
Actually, it's put millions of us through college. And many of us earn a good living and enjoy flexible scheduling with the Tip Credit in place.
It ain't broke! Don't fix it!
3
Maybe it works that way for a man, but women are subjected to continual harassment from customers and can’t do a thing about it because they need those tips. And flexible hours, please! You work when the demand is, just like a gig job.
1
Raise it and do it yesterday! I can't take it anymore watching people work 2 or 3 jobs on crazy schedules just to get by. It is disgusting and it must change. After raising minimum wage, fix the rules that granted employers financial advantages by relying on part-time employees. IMO this loop-hole is the most destructive job-related legislation out there. Yes, I get that it was created in order to prevent having to provide healthcare benefits. So fix that problem instead of passing it along. Forcing adults in the work force into categories like this -- in the past, part-time work was for those who were under-age and in school -- is demeaning. It makes people feel 'less than'. It needs to stop.
6
It’s a huge hassle trying to cobble together multiple job and make the schedules work. There’s always a conflict and every employer thinks they should be your number one job-even if none of them are paying enough for you to get by. Hey, if you want to have me on call any time you want, fine. Pay me enough I don’t need another job.
4
I'm flabbergasted that our conversation on this topic still involves picking a single minimum pay level for all areas of the country that will stay in place for years. How can we keep offering such a unsophisticated, one size fits all solution? There is already a minimum wage that is adjusted for locality costs and is updated annually. It is the GS pay table for federal workers. A GS 1 Step 1 earns $9.36 nationally, with local adjustments up to $13.24 in San Francisco. And we don't have to campaign for another bump in five or ten years. It goes up every year to keep pace with overall wage increases.
5
@John D.
Really.
I couldn't get by on $13.24 an hour and I don't live in San Francisco.
What you are suggesting is absolutely ridiculous.
In most cities around the foundry, you would not be able to live on this money without help from the government.
1
@John D. Where in San Francisco can you live on $13.24?
1
A single person in San Francisco can not afford housing at $13.24 an hour.
1
The Editorial Board has raised an important issue that should be considered by our policymakers. The logic of your proposal is solid and could be a good start in achieving a more equitable distribution of income in the U.S. economy.
The Board has clout so I suggest you please consider investigating a concept that is being introduced in the Democratic primary contest: a "living wage". Mr. Sanders frequently says that anyone working 40 hours a week should earn enough income to provide for a decent standard of living, a so-called living wage.
Can we determine what a living wage is for the different areas of the country? I like how the concept sounds but I wonder if you could take a serious look at this concept and determine what it would mean for the overall economy?
I read the article on the economic problems in California and it stimulated the little grey cells.
3
Social Security should be reasonably increased every year incrementally. This year's measly raise is absurdly low. The price for a gallon of milk increased by $.44 about two weeks ago. Please do not tell me inflation is 'in check'.
4
If your business model does not allow you to pay employees a living wage, your should not be in business.
6
@Seattle native If a doubling of the minimum wage forces employers out of business, those laid off will have no wage at all.
-NW
Exempting rural areas is NOT a good idea. In most cases, the largest employers in these areas are the national chains and big box stores. They can well afford to pay a $15 minimum wage and it will have a profound impact on rural economies.
This is the problem with most thinking in this area. It is usually based on some politician’s hunch or the last person he talked to, rather than sound economic research.
5
Rural areas need this increase more than just about anywhere else.
4
@Bob G Rural areas generally have a lower cost of living and fewer employers. Incentivizing them to higher fewer people would have a major negative impact on struggling areas.
-NW
@Smilodon7
Definitely. One of the reasons we have Trump is because the American Dream is being torn away from us from big corporations who make billions.
By not upping the minimum wage, Congress (and Trump) are creating havoc in the labor market. Now we have a patchwork system of minimum wage districts across the nation sometimes even between adjacent cities or counties. This is a mess that needs to be fixed. The minimum wage has not been increased for so long, it is worth a fraction of its value when the current wage was first enacted. No one can live on minimum wage anywhere in the nation. Even Walmart has gotten the message, so when will Washington?
2
No matter what the Federal minimum wage is, it should be multiplied by a factor that is proportional to the local cost of living. The cost of living varies so much across the U.S. that it makes no sense to have the same minimum wage in New York City and Kansas City. I’m not saying that each locale should determine its own minimum, because many would not choose a value that’s fair to workers. Make it Federal, with a local multiplier. The multiplier should be determined by data, not politics.
4
@Conrad Carlen
Perhaps start with the $15 phased in over the next 5 years and then attach a cost of living multiplier based on the regional costs of various goods and services that are more focused on each regions’ economy.
A rise in the minimum wage seems to have benefit now, for the people who are on the early edge of it. They do see it as real growth. But if this becomes universal, as the editorial recommends, the picture might not be all that rosy.
Keep it simple and you'll see the flaw. For argument's sake call the current minimum $10/hour, the new $15/hour. A 50% increase. So a company has just had their labor costs go up dramatically. Probably additional costs as well for benefits and so on.
Now, this cost has to be accounted for: Option 1) reduce # of employees. So far not too much impact. 2) Absorb the cost increase and reduce profits, or R&D budgets and so on. Possible, in some places, but will impact future options. Most likely? 3) increase prices to cover the new expenses. Once the majority of companies start to do this, it will stoke inflation by requiring more dollars in the system and in fairly short order people will be just as behind as they are now, only with a bigger price tags and higher income taxes to show for it.
5
You are forgetting that people spend that money right where they live. It doesn’t just disappear. It will come back to those same businesses as their customers get raises and spend more.
1
With record unemployment we seem to be in a heyday of labor protections. California AB 5 has threatened the livelihoods of independent contractors in that state (such as myself).
There is a cumulative effect off all these labor regulations. Obviously the more expensive it is to hire a worker (in time, money and effort) then the fewer workers will be hired.
This economic expansion will not last forever.
1
All we are asking for us our share of the profits. No one is demanding we all be billionaires. Why is it so radical to want a living wage? Without us there would be no businesses.
11
The increase in the US population is rapidly decreasing, the slowest growth rate since 1918. Deaths are increasing; births are decreasing. There are about half as many immigrants coming to the US for work since Trump took office.
Last January, there were 7.6 million unfilled US jobs open and a very low unemployment rate. If businesses want to stay open, they need to compete for available employees.
Minimum wage employees tend to spend more money in their local communities than those with more money according to research. Increasing minimum wage and therefore disposable income increases profits in communities.
Minimum wage is not the only enticement. Some other possibilities:
- daycare for all hours the company needs employees
- transportation for employees farther from the employment
- training for more advanced positions.
Businesses that do not invest in their employees in some fashion are likely to go out of business.
2
Fine for New York and San Francisco.
A disaster for Appalachia and most rural areas, where it would put most small businesses out of business, and where the cost of living is low.
2
It isn’t that low. Why do you think so many in rural areas are financially stressed? The jobs that exist just don’t pay enough.
5
Like many readers, I assumed that any gains among worker's wages will be offset by the inflation it triggers, even if employment rates remain steady and high. But the consumer price index as a measure of inflation has remained solidly below 5% for much of the last thirty years even during historically low unemployment rates. So if an increase in minimum wage guarantees neither high unemployment nor unchecked inflation, what does it offer us individually and as a society? It certainly does not make wealthy people more wealthy. As a society, we have a lot to gain by making sure the bottom 25% can afford necessities like a stable home, medical care, and education for their children. Without these essentials, the risks associated with poverty including homelessness, poor diet, inaccessible medical care, crime, unplanned pregnancy, and many other issues create widespread, costly, and devastating impacts upon society that cannot be corrected without extremely expensive and often ineffective social programs including incarceration. The responsible long view is to consider the full benefits - both direct and indirect - associated with an increase to a living wage. I suspect the results could be pleasantly surprising.
6
My guess is that the idea that minimum wage workers will spend money in America is a myth. I think a lot of that pay gets sent back to their home country. Some money gets spent on beer and cigarettes. I don't think the argument that higher pay will put more money into the economy is an idea that holds water. More money will just be sent back to Mexico, Asia, Latin America.
1
@Anti-Marx
There are some 17 million Americans who will benefit from this proposal. There are fewer than 11 million total undocumented immigrants in America. You think those 11 million immigrants don’t have to eat and pay rent and cell phone bills and put gasoline in their cars?
4
@Blank
They probably don't own cars in NYC. They do eat, but probably at Mexican or Asian owned businesses. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not money that goes into the general economy. I also think a lot gets returned to their country of origin.
Very few people in NYC own cars.
The point wasn't that they don't do the things you say. It was that the wage money would be used at the businesses where they work and near where they work.
I see a lot of smoking. That's 15 dollars a pack in NYC.
1
New York is not the whole nation. They have to own cars elsewhere, most of this country has little to no public transportation. And immigrants buy food everywhere. I see them in local grocery stores all the time.
4
The problem with the federal minimum wage has always been the wide difference in cost of living between regions of the poorer states including Mississippi and Oklahoma that have the lowest cost of living and regions in the larger states such as San Francisco which have the highest cost of living.
If the wealthy states including New York and California would like to subsidize the poorer states, I have no objection to that.
1
@Bill Keating
Blue States already pay 30% more of the Tax Revenues in America than the Red States. That’s on a per capita basis.
This is insane. If we had a $15 minimum wage, the military would get no recruits - it pays $10/hour. Ambulance drivers, who are certified, get about $14/hour. This would be both inflationary and would destroy jobs. It would absolutely destroy the youth job market. And in Flyover Country, it would put many businesses out of business.
3
The military should be paying more than $10/hr.
2
So you think that money would go into a black hole and never come out? No. It would get spent at these very same businesses.
And the military should be paying more than $10 an hour. That’s ridiculous. We are asking someone to risk their life for poverty money?!? This is supposed to be the richest country in the world, surely we can do better!
Why stop at doubling the minimum wage? If the effects are so unequivocally positive, why not quintuple it? Or increase it tenfold? What could go wrong?
3
The US is a vast country with an endlessly diverse population of people with different values facing different circumstances. Our minimum wage laws need to reflect that.
I propose a minimum wage committee comprised of roughly 270 million Americans. 1 for every person who wants to work. Then each committee member will determine a minimum wage for the individual who’s life circumstances they understand the most.
1
@Matt Pitlock
Excellent!
The federal minimum wage should be raised somewhat but applying a $15 standard across both New York City and Tuscaloosa Alabama or Tulsa Oklahoma is a non starter. First, if $15 is enough to live on here in NYC, then $10 or $12 an hour is more than enough to live on in those cities much less small, rural towns in the Midwest, West, and South.
And in those smaller communities, a federal minimum wage of $15 would grossly accelerate the death of small businesses and accelerate a rush of poor, minimally skilled rural people into already over-crowded urban areas where we already lack affordable housing and quality schools and swell the rolls of the unemployed.
Additionally, given the concentration of these jobs in the food service sector, it would likely raise the cost of these foods eating up much of the increase that went to these low wage workers in the first place.
The federal minimum wage should not be the standard bearer for the most expensive markets but rather a catch all standard for rural states (that are largely governed by Republicans who will never raise the minimum wage) to ensure that workers there receive a reasonable wage relative to their cost of living.
3
@Jon P I had always thought it would be way cheaper to live in Minneapolis than it was in Los Angeles and it was true that housing was slightly less expensive as was car insurance, but so many things were MORE expensive. Food. Childcare. Dry-cleaning. It turned out all those immigrant businesses in the coastal cities gave really good value for the dollar. I had expected to save all this money when I moved but instead there was just a shift in who I paid not how much I paid.
4
You can’t live decently on $10 anywhere.
I am a surgeon who worked in a large single practice group. Each year I would give my nurse a $2000 to $5000 Christmas bonus above and beyond what the group would give as bonuses. If I gave the check to her on Friday it was cashed and spent by early the next week. My partners criticized me for "raising salary expectations".
It was a win win win for me, my nurse and the local economy. It made my practice more efficient. It gave my nurse more disposable income. And she spent the money in the local economy. Another win for the economy.
If I had received a check for $2000 - $5000 it would have sit in my wallet for weeks to months before I made an effort to deposit it in my savings account. Not to be spent in the local economy.
I ask Jeff Bezos and others, "Why not funnel a lot of your profits back to your workers?" They will spend it on your company and make you richer. If you keep the lion's share of profits, fewer of your employees will be able to purchase the goods and services that made you rich. As horrible as Henry Ford was, he realized that if his employees couldn't make a salary to afford his cars he had no business. The top 0.1% are not sustainable if the bottom 99.9% can't afford the products sold by the the top 0.1%.
31
Wow. Do you realize how much good that can do for a low wage worker to get that kind of money? I’ve been putting off a root canal for two years because I simply cannot save that kind of money on what I make. And I know I’m far from the only one. If more employers were like you this country would be a far better place. I could pay for my root canal, the glasses I need and actually have money left over for an emergency. I could even take a real vacation, the last time was over 20 years ago. Thank you for being so decent to your nurse!
23
@Smilodon7 @Smilodon7 I came out of the foster care system. You need to find a way to get that root canal done. It will eventually absess and can actually kill you. I know this because at one point I needed almost $39K of dental care and the bones on the left side of my face were disintegrating. I went to Costa Rica and had exceptional work done, with better care that I could have in the US.
I learned about it from someone on a comment just like this. It started when I was 16 and couldn't afford the $150 for filling a cavity between two teeth. The dentist refused to accept the $15 a month I could pay for 10 months (I only made $100 more than my rent for all my month expenses and was self-supporting--bootstraps and al of that nonsense). 3 years later they absessed. That was my very first credit card. $3K per tooth, 29% interest. Being a throw away kid was tax that I've paid almost my entire life.
The rentiers don't care. They make their money by not paying us enough, forcing us into high interest debt to pay for lifesaving medical care and pretending that charging 29% interest makes us more creditworthy than %5.
You are valuable. You are worth not having the risk of infection less than two inches from your brain.
I remember when I was going through it thinking "I'm the mom of three. I'm a small business owner. I have no value to my community." But I have value. You have value. Mexico is easier to get to with really good dentists too.
13
If I had the money to get to Mexico, I could get it done here. I don’t live close.
I’ve had about half saved up 3 times only to have it wiped out by an emergency. I will lose all 3 jobs without transportation so letting that go is not an option. I know it’s important but dentists don’t work for free and they don’t seem to get it when you tell them you don’t have the money. All they want to do is try and get you to take out credit card loans to pay for it. I already know at my income level credit cards are just another poverty trap, even if they approve me which is very, very doubtful.
I hesitate to ask family, I did that before and all I got was a lecture on how I needed a better job. If the pain gets really bad I will ask again. Not really interested in getting a lecture of what I already know. If it was that easy to get a better paying job I would have one already. I’ve had a few fairly recent offers but none with more money, except one in Chicago, and that wasn’t enough to pay the increased cost of living there.
7
Do it over a period of time, the way New York State is doing. Too large a percentage change like that overnight will be a system shock and ultimately counterproductive.
1
"A full-time worker making the minimum wage cannot afford a one-bedroom apartment in almost any American city."
And that seems about right. The minimum wage is the least that someone can be paid - that would be the least skilled, least motivated, and least educated potential worker. For example, a high school dropout looking for their first job. They probably live at home, but if not, they will have roommates -- just like college students their own age generally do.
About forty years ago, most of my friends and acquaintances were STEM workers with bachelors degrees or better and perhaps two to four years experience. We all certainly made _well_ more than minimum wage in a modestly high cost area. Yet, almost everyone, including myself, had one or more apartment/house mates even though any of us could have afforded a one bedroom apartment (or more) to rent by ourselves.
What has changed that makes it so important that a high school dropout on their first job earn enough salary to afford a one bedroom apartment all to themselves? Even when we had that option, me and most of my friends choose not to.
3
It’s not that so much as that people who make significantly above minimum can’t afford an apartment either. So what we have are people living in tents on the sidewalks. Anytime you have large amounts of financially stressed people, it’s a drain on the economy.
5
@Bob Richards it's sad that nobody in these comments has mentioned US institutional racism and the impact of artificially low minimum wages on our minority brothers and sisters.
For years, the continual proliferation of conspiracy theories and propaganda perpetuated by those who only want billions for themselves has come to an end. While many in the public still are under the spell that higher wages will raise prices across the board, all they have to do is remember that at a minimum wage and reduced hours of employment they will live at or near the poverty line. As a consideration and the advent of artificial intelligence (AI) that will continue to reduce the workforce today, their sales and market share will start to falter and may ultimately fail. The solution rests with the Congress to mandate a basic income that will keep business doors open and place to live for Americans. Without income or the workers, commerce fails.
2
We need to raise the minimum wage. Absolutely.
But we also need to keep a cap on real estate, which is the highest expense for working people, either in the form of rent or mortgage. If we raise the minimum wage, and real estate barons realize they can take a higher amount from working people, what good does a higher minimum wage do? Let's keep that in mind. Go Henry George.
1
The only people that want a cap on real estate are people who don’t own real estate.
4
and people who understand economics
1
#1. It’s supposed to be exactly that - the MINIMUM wage, not the maximum wage which is what it turns out to be for most jobs. Which brings me to
#2. Because if you are being paid the minimum wage it’s because the employer would pay you less if they could.
2
Do the math. 40 hours @ $7.25 = $290 a week less payroll taxes.
Please tell me where one can live on this amount of money?
7
@M nowhere. I recommend MITs livable wage calculator.
1
Most places you’d struggle to live on twice that.
1
To be equitable, a minimum wage needs to be more-or-less pegged to an area's cost of living. If not, it will either be so low as to be meaningless in a place like most of the Bay Area or so high as to be destructively harmful to (especially small) businesses in most of the Central Valley.
3
Well if we can really and truly double people's salaries who are on the low income end and with very few repercussions then I'm willing to pay a little more for that burger. However, you can put me in the skeptic camp because you show zero analytical data in your "analysis." Why double? Why not try 25% more? Why not triple? Seems like everyone just invented a number and my fear is what everyone fears - burger places will push a little harder to automate and then yet another great intention turns into more suffering.
2
@Jerome - "zero analytical data" in the article.
Did you follow any of the dozen hyperlinks in the article? The "skeptic camp" implies a tendency to follow up on information provided, not just to announce a belief that no information was made available.
Did you follow the link provided in the "the economists David Card and Alan Krueger examined a minimum-wage rise in New Jersey by comparing fast-food restaurants there and in an adjacent part of Pennsylvania. It found no impact on employment."
http://davidcard.berkeley.edu/papers/njmin-aer.pdf
Or:
"researchers at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York found that wages have climbed significantly in counties along the New York side of the state line, again without a discernible difference in the pace of employment growth."
https://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org/2019/09/minimum-wage-impacts-along-the-new-york-pennsylvania-border.html
How about "the British government asked the economist Arindrajit Dube to review the results accumulated over the last quarter-century. Mr. Dube reported the sum total of the research showed minimum-wage increases raised compensation while producing a “very muted effect” on employment."
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/impacts-of-minimum-wages-review-of-the-international-evidence
Re-read the article, follow the multiple sources to analytical data they provided, and then maybe come to a conclusion then.
8
@b fagan I read all of information at the provided links and STILL came to the same conclusion as Jerome.
It would be interesting to find out how much of the increase in wages in the nation are due to progressive states and cities raising their minimum wages and if wages in the rest of the nation are keeping pace or falling behind.
Excellent recommendation, but how about those of us old folks getting by on social security. And yes, I saved my entire working career, but with children and medical expenses, those savings didn't last long.
We could double social security along with the minimum wage, but limit the increase in social security to those who proven to actually need the income. And no, it wouldn't bankrupt the fund, if we eliminated the cap on income taxed for social security, and the types of income taxed for social security.
Most of us had every cent we ever made taxed for social security, but the rich only had a fraction of their income taxed for social security due to the cap of 125 thousand of income per year taxed. Yes, increase minimum wage, but don't forget the rest of us.
4
That should have been done a long time ago. It would certainly help shore up Social Security.
3
I was gonna say that the only way to make this possible is to raise it gradually over time, but then I thought, 'No, what we need to do is end Republican control of the Senate'.
THEN we could do it faster.
But if we could remove McConnell as gatekeeper, then OTHER ideas could be floated as well--all kinds of ideas!
But then, the pragmatist in me comes out an says "when were the only times drastic change possible in recent history"?
And the answer is: 1933-1935, and 1964-66--both times of HUGE Democratic majorities in both houses ready to do the President's bidding. (and in the mid-1960s, at least SOME Republicans interested in compromise as well).
A lot of the thinking I'm reading here is clearly on the right track, but let's work on a blowout victory in 2020 and THEN focus on some of them!
3
How many small businesses would have to close, if Congress raised the minimum wage to $15.00?
5
Small businesses are closing near me because they can’t get enough employees. Maybe if they tried paying them a livable wage, they would have enough employees, and those companies might still be in business.
Minimum wage in Illinois is $8.25.
11
But they wouldn’t only see costs, they’d see benefits too. Small business would have more customers with actual money to spend. People making low wages can’t buy much. I cannot tell you how many times I hear from customers at the small business where I work how they would like to spend more but they just don’t have the money.
4
@P&L
In Manhattan, stores are reducing hours, because pay has gone up. If minimum wage is raised, a lot of stores will fold.
4
What happens to a small business that can't afford the increased costs and goes out of business? The employees lose their jobs. Where is the happy medium?
3
Those employees are snapped up quick by another company that wants them. There is a drastic labor shortage right now. Companies are so desperate that they are hiring people without interviewing in person for mid-level jobs so they get them before another company does.
1
Why is it that everybody focuses on the costs to small business like they would occur in a vacuum? Sure, they pay out higher wages. But their customers also get raises, and they will spend it at these same small businesses.
5
If the shortage is so bad, you’d think wages would be rising much faster.
2
Why not triple? Quintuple?
When I ask liberals why they don't raise it much higher, they really can't answer. Because they know deep down it would be absurd. The fact is, it's ridiculous to have one at all.
The ever-rising minimum wage will just lead to more automation and more jobs going overseas. This takes time. Businesses can't turn on a dime and do this, but they begin planning and eventually it happens.
In Napa, automation during harvest is taking over. I would say per gallon produced, employment during harvest is down 33% in the last 5 years. Not only is automation cheaper... it's higher quality. I know, I use people and automation.
Government CAN dictate how much employers must pay workers.... but they can't make them hire workers.
4
Many jobs that are automated are jobs that are hard to fill or free up employees to do more complex jobs.
Many harvesting jobs cannot be filled now that immigrants are not being brought in on visas, or stupidly brought in after the harvest is done. Billions of dollars of crops went unharvested due to lack of employees, resulting in many farmers going bankrupt, many selling their farms to developers.
There is a worker shortage in America. Last time I checked there were 6 million jobs not filled. The goal is to get the workers to the right jobs. People may need to move or get retrained. Getting a livable salary incentivizes the employees to do so.
2
Moving costs money. Transportation, first and last months rent, etc. Someone making near minimum is going to have a hard time finding that money. There is also the issue of family responsibilities that prevents people from moving.
1
It is not just that 40% of Americans can’t cover a $400 emergency—it’s that they see the billionaires and elites thriving with the rocketing stock market. The majority on both sides of the political divide believe the economic and political system is rigged, their anger directed at different enemies, but growing, threatening instability. Trump and Sanders are shaking up the system, and now the Gray Lady is for doubling minimum wage. We either see major reform, or the pitchforks will be coming to the manor house.
6
There is one trade off of high minimum wage that is almost always ignored: There is a bunching of wages at close to the legal minimum.
Fast Food workers may earn $15 per hour, and elementary middle school teachers only $16 per hour, high school teachers may earn $17 per hour. This removes the reward for obtaining higher education, or do undesirable jobs.
Minimum wages set at about 25th percentile of free-market work well. If the minimum wage is close to the median- significant cheating will happen, and draconian enforcement, and backlash to it will follow.
I think a minimum wage of $11, going up by a dollar an hour to $15 is a very good start. Expand the Earned Income Tax Credit for all workers(not just parents with children)
4
Paying starvation wages also removes incentive to do undesirable jobs. How long are you going to stick with a hard job if you can’t pay rent?
4
@Smilodon7 Those earning the minimum wage don't have the skills or education to choose higher-paying jobs, so the incentive to do "undesirable jobs" is the possibility of earning something as opposed to nothing.
So that makes it ok to take advantage of them? Because they have no other choice but to work for poverty wages?
Other factors play into this too. Age discrimination is a huge problem and an education won’t protect you a lot of the time. Lose your job at 50 or 60 and you have very little chance of getting anything that pays decently regardless of your education or experience.
2
Not only should the federal minimum wage increase, but there should also be a health care minimum wage. No one should be sold into medical debt slavery.
4
For the economic well-being of the people return to the gold dollar. Cut yourself off the saying, incorrectly attributed to John Maynard Keynes, that "Gold is a barbarous relic". Bethink that return to gold standard will not "crucify the nation on a cross of gold", but will make the prices and purchasing power of the currency stable.
This is my wish for the coming New Year 2020, of Christian or Common Era on Earth.
A lot of people complain about economic inequality, and this article offers an answer that would help greatly. The fact is that in most parts of the country wages that are even higher than minimum wage do not allow a single, childless person to survive. I commend the Times for printing this piece, which is on the nose. I genuinely hope that the federal government agrees.
6
Bravo! It is impossible to live without receiving supplementary assistance on $7.25/hour. This increase is long overdue and seems like a win-win for Congress and the American people.
4
I agree. It's also important to keep in mind that if the minimum wage were indexed to both inflation and productivity, it would be something like $30 and hour.
11
@David that's pretty much what it is here in Geneva, Switzerland.
When I started working the minimum wage was $2.65 an hour. That was in 1978 when the Dow Jones Industrial Average was at 800. Every single time it's suggested that we raise the minimum wage, business owners scream that "it will hurt the very people it's supposed to help!" If they'd had their way, I'd still be getting $2.65 an hour. That would hurt.
Minimum wage isn't even three times what it was back then, but consider that the Dow Jones today closed very comfortably over 28,000, thirty-five times its 1978 value.
19
Since the Reagan years, and for a few years prior to that, corporations have done well by paying their employees as little as possible. Corporations and the richest people have managed to accumulate so much wealth that they resent even the hint that the rest of us might do better if they shared even 1% of what they have with the rest of us. They see no need for a social safety net. Why? Because they don't need one.
Haven't you noticed that as soon as any working American says something about affordable housing the immediate reaction of the economic elites is to say that we're asking for the universe rather than saying it's a reasonable request? What I'd like see is more working Americans understanding how the concentration of wealth in a small percentage of the population is hurting the rest of us rather than listening to them nattering on about how it's bad for the rich if they have to pay more in taxes.
The rich are not job creators. Rich corporations excel at avoiding taxes not hiring permanent employees and paying them decent wages. Look at the Waltons and Walmart. The same can be said for McDonald's employees. In both cases the employees are told to go to the government for food stamps to cover what their miserly salaries don't.
If the economy is so good why are so many living on the edge? If the economy is so good why is it so difficult to find a full time job? If the economy is so great why do so many continue to merely tread water?
39
Please consider an alternative solution to the same problem: the universal basic income, as popularly advocated by Andrew Yang. A UBI would benefit lower-income workers disproportionately, just as would an increased minimum wage, but it has significant advantages too. For one, its costs would be borne across the economy, rather than concentrated in certain sectors, and would accrue more smoothly at all income levels. For another, it would improve bargaining power of the lowest-paid workers, who would find it significantly easier to turn down exploitative work. For another, it would be relatively simple to institute, without the enforcement difficulties and fraud that accompany minimum wage laws and welfare or disability benefits.
117
@M.
UBI still does not address the central issue of wage subsidization that companies receive for underpaying their workers. Every single multi-billion dollar company receives direct generous tax breaks and tax incentives to continue their operations. UBI is just another gift.
34
@Viv how is wage subsidization the "central issue"? I'd say the central issue is massive and growing inequality, and UBI is a frontal attack on that. Is it really "another gift" if individuals get it no matter whom they're working for, or indeed whether they're working at all?
17
@M.
What is the source of income inequality? People not earning enough to cover their cost of living.
Worker productivity and wages were correlated until the mid 1970s, when they started to diverge. Since that time, worker productivity skyrocketed, wages stagnated and income inequality rose.
So what happened? More and more working people relied on the social safety net (and cheap debt) to cover their living expenses.
What percentage of Walmart workers were living in government housing or were on food stamps in 1970s versus today? A heck of a lot fewer.
UBI is nothing but entitlement reform by another catchy name. Under UBI (even Yang's version) everyone would get a lump sum from the government. There would be no more food stamps, public housing, etc. All of that would be gone.
Every single study of UBI (especially the recent one in Ontario, Canada that was cancelled) were "wildly successful" for their participants because they were allowed to keep their government benefits, and additionally received more welfare cash. Nobody had to move out of their government housing or their food stamps. So how could these people NOT be better off?
The vast majority of people on welfare and public housing work. Why aren't they getting paid enough to pay market rates for housing and support themselves?
Why should the government, instead of their employer, pay them?
19
Bravo to the Times for supporting this commonsense idea. However, I continue to dismayed that the debate about this issue, like debate about most issues facing the United States, is parochial. Why not look to other countries and see what their minimum wages are? Australia, for example, has a minimum wage of about $12.40 USD (based on the current exchange rate). Germany's is about $10.27 USD per hour. New Zealand's is about $11.72. By April 2020, England's will be $11.41 USD.
If these countries can afford to pay their workers at these rates, I see no reason why the U.S., which is wealthier than these countries, can't match or beat these wages. Of course all countries are different, but why isn't an examination of other countries part of the debate? We're not the first country to wrestle with these issues.
142
@Michael S.
Reasonable starting point for the discussion, Michael.
However, when you compare those minimum wages, you are leaving out the enormous benefits of universal healthcare, low cost or no cost higher education, a robust safety net, and on and on... Factoring those in, for the low wage worker in those countries, it would at least double their effective "wages" >
52
@Michael S.
If you have ever been to those countries and looked at prices in a supermarket or tried to buy anything else, you'd have seen that the cost of living is much higher than in the US (outside New York, California, etc.).
5
@Michael S.
The wages you have listed are not liveable wages in the United States. Most of our population lives in or near large cities, therefore expenses are higher.
5
If the entry level, lower wage earners are getting a $5/hour increase, as a more experienced worker I'd want a $5/hour increase as well. As a matter of fact, everyone in that "food chain" should be getting more, otherwise what's the point of working hard to get ahead?
The major benefit of this is, why in the world would you tip 15-20% when the workers are already making so much? This should eliminate tipping entirely, in my mind, a good thing. Living in Oregon with no state sales tax (lots of other taxes, though!), the price you see is exactly what you pay. Having lived in NY and CA, however, I could never quite figure out how much money I really needed for that $9.99 loaf of bread.
1
You know that tipped workers receive LESS than the minimum wage, right?
We are presently evaluating the trade off between hiring some new employees or increasing automation. It now appears we will be better off financially to spend around $250,000 on technology for each job rather than pay $15.00 an hour for these jobs. Which alternative do you think we will choose? The machines and computers show up every day, don’t go on vacation, don’t require payroll and unemployment taxes, repairs are cheaper by far than health insurance. What would you do editorial board?
62
@T Smith You would probably buy those machines regardless of the minimum wage. Even I, as a bleeding heart see the benefit of increased productivity. However, I also believe in the fairness of paying employees a living wage. Society evolves and the jobs available for citizens change. However, conflating productivity improvements and fair wages is a false equivalence.
94
@T Smith So basically you are ok paying a wage that requires them to receive public assistance such as food stamps to survive? Why should my tax dollars go towards subsidizing your business? If you get rid of your workers eventually there won’t be a sustainable market for the products you sell.
215
@Michael Greason Sorry to disagree with you but no we would not go with increased automation if we were confident STARTING minimum wages would not rise to $15.00 an hour. You need only look at the fast food industry - and I know those are not great jobs - to see how automation is reducing employee demand. These are the kind of jobs that give young inexperienced people a start in the workplace. Where do you think these same people are going to get first jobs when business decide someone with no experience simply isn’t worth 15 an hour? It a conundrum and it’s going to become a crisis in coming years as more and more jobs are automated. I know people always point to the fears of workers in the early 1800s who feared automation and were proven wrong. Yet, with gains in robotics and AI I can already see a future where there just are not jobs for those of limited skills.
10
Yes, the minimum wage must be raised - for there to be any relation between wages and self-sufficiency in our country.
Sadly, the proposed $15 minimum wage would not begin to keep up with costs for minimum wage workers since the brilliant Mollie Orshansky calculated the poverty level for the Social Security Administration in the early 60's.
A thrifty food budget then was 1/4 of the total minimum monthly expenses at that time - and because housing and other costs have skyrocketed as compared to food costs, the same thrifty food budget is 1/8th of total expenses.
Simply put, a minimum wage would need to be somewhere between $25 and $30 now to keep a small family out of poverty, if politicians didn't shamefully keep these indeces artificially low. Indefensibly low.
We are creating a serf class.
233
@Mark Keller
How many prosperous families do you know where both parents are not working full time? If the upper middle class has two working parents in a household, what is your theory that unskilled workers in entry level jobs should be paid sufficiently to support a household on one minimum wage job?
It's your position that a recent high school graduate living in his prosperous family's home is entitled to $50,000 - $60,0000 per year?
12
@ebmem
Upper middle class white collar workers could live quite well under one $250K salary, if they wanted. You can't compare to a family of three in which each earn $32K or less.
39
@ebmem
Yes it is, ebmem, with the exception of strictly time-limited internships and national service positions that reduce student debt such as Americorps.
Many people thing that Henry Ford's greatest innovation was the invention of the assembly line. This is a distant second to his realization of the "win-win" proposition that a worker at Ford should be able to afford a Ford Model A.
The economics work, too - in wealthy countries with higher minimum wages, costs are higher, but there is far less poverty, free or low cost college, universal healthcare, etc...
And, you can have free trade with other countries, as long as they protect the environment, and provide living wage jobs themselves.
As an analogue, even though the U.S richest currently "benefit" form lower tax rates, when Democrats are in the Presidency, the rich get more real dollars, because everyone else has so much more to spend.
37
The Federal Standard for a minimum wage ($7.25) an hour has not risen since 2009-that is unthinkable! How have expenses risen in those ten years-housing, health care,child care, the list goes on.We cannot marginalize people with less than a minimally adequate wage and expect them to be productive citizens.Something is very wrong when Jeff Zuckerberg earns Six Million dollars a day and legislators will not vote to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour now- not over a period of years.This is not welfare-it recognizes the dignity of work.
13
The minimum wage on both coasts should be at least $30 by now. Nowhere in California or New York was $15 a living wage in 2016. That goes double today, with rents having gone up quite a bit.
The Los Angeles Times reported a couple of days ago that in the last ten years, rents have risen by 65% in Southern California. Rents have been rising everywhere, though not as much.
Doubling the minimum wage is meaningless without building a massive amount of affordable housing, fixing our infrastructure and instituting a modest Universal Basic Income with a view to bolster it on the fly. Student debt must be erased and future students educated free.
Those who lost out to the Great Recession are still living its aftermath. Their children who are just now becoming adults will also pay a hefty price, with no path to successful careers that their grandparents had.
The economy is lopsided and one measure will not make it equal again.
10
Keep in mind the increase to $15 in many cities has been phased in and the impact on the small businesses has yet to be seen. No one really needs to only make minimum wage if they can pass a drug test and show up for work on time. Here in the Atlanta region, entry pay at fast food restaurants is already $10 per hour by market forces, and all sorts of industries are begging for workers at $16 or $18 per hour. Unemployment is about 3%. Market forces do a good job of setting wages. If you can't already earn better than $7.25 per hour, using government intervention to force a business to pay you what you aren't worth is ridiculous.
40
I’ve been lied to enough times by employers who never intended to give raises to be very suspicious. I can’t tell you how many times I was promised raises and promotions, yet they didn’t come even though my employers admit I did a good job and did everything I was asked to do. Why should I pay the price because my employer made dumb investments or counted on a grant they hadn’t actually gotten yet?
5
@PRO
What is ridiculous is employers who do not pay their workers enough money to buy food and pay rent. If somebody is working 40 hours a week they should not have to work another job or apply for food stamps, or go to the food pantry, to survive. If they get a cold it could be a disaster as they cannot afford to skip a day or two of work.
I find your response to be the true definition of elitism
10
My heavens folks. $15 an hour translates to 30K a year. Would you like to live on that? And would you like to have a guaranteed wage of 4K a year and rely, as Blanche DuBois said, on the kindness of strangers, as waitstaff must do? It is a disgrace that in a country as wealthy as ours that this is the situation. I know that I am fortunate that I can tip generously and can afford higher prices where I shop, but when you look carefully you see that increasing wages will not greatly increase the price of the goods and services you enjoy.
13
@Eric Key $30,000 a year is what clerks and secretaries are paid, jobs that require high school diplomas. If that wage is guaranteed where is the incentive to stay in school?
-NW
I make $15 an hour in nyc in the social services with a bachelors in my field. Please don’t feel bad for me... I love my job and manage to save a bit. Roommates. I am pretty darn happy if you can believe it...
A decent minimum wage is a great idea. But there need to be some guard rails. First, a huge increase all at once will shock the economy and have negative effects - increases need to be phased in (as many localities are doing).
The highest minimum wages should be applicable to full time jobs. They should not apply to part time jobs that are traditionally for teenagers, etc. Teenagers are not supporting families. They are happy to get a slightly lower amount. Similarly, tip-based restaurant jobs should have a lower minimum.
I have spoken to owners of several stores and restaurants in my neighborhood in NY and they have said that the increases in minimum wage have been very difficult for them. The have either hired fewer people and/or raised prices. And some of the ones that raised prices have seen a decline in sales due to the higher prices. This is not the goal.
22
Hey, there are plenty of adults who work multiple part time jobs. I’m 50 and I have to support myself on what I make. Leaving people like me out just because we are part time is unfair. And what will happen is employers will hire only part time to get around the minimum wage. So pretty soon everyone will have multiple jobs, no benefits & still be broke.
58
@NYC BD
The last minimum wage increases took place in 2007, 2008 and 2009. Followed by the slowest recovery in history and 10% unemployment.
Which is not to say that the minimum wage increases were the cause of the slow recovery, certainly the Obama policies were the major causes of the limp recovery and the belief by the media that the new normal was an average of 1.5% with an occasional 2% spike in GDP growth.
Wages grow during an expansion of the economy and wage growth tapers off during the tail end of the expansion. Currently, the bottom two quartiles are getting pay increases well in excess of inflation. Toward the end of an expansion, pressure builds to increase the minimum wage, which means it increases at the worst possible time.
@NYC BD
Small business owners will always say that, and the numbers quoted above don't back that up. We can't base compensation on family situation - how does upending the entire merit based pay scale make sense in an economy? That's not even socialism, that's communism!
4
State and local government are proving that there is absolutely no need for the federal government to set a minimum wage. States are the proper constitutional vehicle and can do so and are doing so.
On the other hand, Trump is proving that more aggressive immigration enforcement helps workers, especially minorities. Only the federal government can do that. Congress, the Democratic Party, and the Editorial Board should take note and change their position accordingly.
2
Social engineering by those really, really smart folks in DC. This would be another instance of a hubristic government that thinks it has the ability to plan society from Washington. I realize what a quaint observation this is, but I cannot find the authority for congress to set a minimum wage in Article I Section 8. Also, any minimum wage established by ukase will cause inflation and undermine the purchasing power the decree was intended to generate, setting off, I suppose, another round of increases. The law would create a game of "tag" with minimum wage chasing after other salary levels set by market forces. It will be interesting to see what the economy looks like when the lowest skilled jobs pay upwards of $30-40-50/hour. When McDs is charging $20.00 for a happy meal, lots of folks won't be so happy. Maybe they'll cut costs by filling those sacks with cheaper toys.
25
@Robert You can see what such an economy looks like by visiting Australia where the minimum wage is about $14 USD and probably more when you factor in purchasing power parity. No disaster there. Oh, and they have national health insurance too.
162
@Robert
I’ve seen estimates that the $15 minimum wage would increase the cost of your McDonald’s Happyness by 3%, or roughly $0.20. Can you afford a quarter for the 125,000 McDonald’s workers to have enough income so they no longer qualify for SNAP benefits?
29
@Robert
what about the hubris of the corporations that make billions? you don't think they are playing a part in keeping wages artificially low?
20
I’ve been reading some of the comments here, and it’s quite obvious that the people who are against this aren’t the same people trying to live on under $15/hr. Try it and see just how fun it is. I for one am sick of working all the time & still having no money. Everyone who works deserves a decent living. They don’t have to be wealthy but they should have basic needs met. We have companies making billions yet their workers need food stamps to feed their kids. That has to stop!
330
@Smilodon7 What if the trade off for doubling minimum wage is getting laid off?
-NW
1
@Smilodon7 Absolutely! Little caring for others, especially women and children, expressed in these comments. Don't tell me that large corporations and those with stock holders can't afford a minimum wage of $15. And don't tell me, SCOTUS, that corporations are people! Corporations and big business have no hearts!
9
@Smilodon7
Then change your spending habits, move, or both.
3
There is nothing "risky" about providing workers with a living wage and enabling them to become a contributing member of society. Everyone benefits, from the worker and his/her family to the local cafe and the grocery store down the street.
How can anyone, other than the very stingy and/or selfish, deny someone the ability to live in dignity even when they are working full time? What is wrong with this country that they continue to argue that this is some kind of a risk?
328
@avrds The risk is that the super rich may become ever so slightly less super rich.
14
@avrds
Yes but who is Uncle Sam to set wages for private American businesses and companies?
CEO? COO? CFO? HR?
2
@Blackmamba
No one is setting wages, but there should be a floor to how much people should be paid when working at any job. Remember, we outlawed slavery; we also outlawed child labor.
The federal government once used to also protect workers and communities from toxic working conditions and environmental contamination, but Trump is getting pretty good at getting rid of those to squeeze out more profits for those at the top.
13
I can’t speak for all sectors, but in healthcare, a $15 minimum is a no-brainer.
Despite constant complaining from so many in healthcare about declining reimbursements, administrative bloat, corporate health insurance opaqueness (all real problems), if you can’t run ANY sized healthcare operation while paying receptionists, MAs etc a $15 minimum and provide adequate health insurance benefits, you don’t deserve to be an employer. I own a small business of four medical offices and about 30 employees, and a self-imposed $15 minimum in conjunction with diligent business management skills (MBA helps) has only helped my business thrive while local competition struggles to survive. Tides are changing, and at least trying to treat employees right is going to be one of the biggest determinants of success in a tight labor market.
108
Minimum wage here in NY needs to be at least $20- at least for established employees. Anyone working 40 hours should not be living in poverty.
Anything we can do to squeeze the bottle so wealth is pushed downward would be a plus for our society. Adequate redirection on this will likely require more than direct action by congress.
We need campaign finance reform to stop the power of money from directing wealth where it is least needed. Everyone has crooked math when it comes to their own economic advantage, but only the very rich get to enforce their erroneous calculation through excessive political power.
261
@alan haigh It should be at least $20/hr in the greater NYC area and $15 elsewhere in the state. The minimum wage law should have a base of at least $13-$15 per hour and then adjusted upward on a county-by-county basis depending on the Cost of Living in that county.
12
@alan haigh
Living 'well' in Manhattan and Silicon Valley is not like living in 'good' in Boise and Montgomery.
2
@alan haigh : even $20 an hour would not give someone a middle class life in New York City (or San Francisco or other high cost areas).
A small studio apartment costs $2500 a month there, and it won't house a family of four.
At $42,500 a year, you'd be taking home at most $3000 a month. You'd be paying 90% of it in rent! (forget about food, heat, bus fare, etc).
Worse….once you earn that much, you are DISQUALIFIED from getting food stamps, WIC, Section 8, Medicaid.
So your costs go up exponentially. At $42,500….you are considered "rich" by the government and there are no programs to help you, regardless of the living costs in your area.
Welfare benefits are so good in some places -- NYC is prime! -- that they're worth MORE than a job! what job gives you 100% FREE health care with no premiums, no deductibles and no copays -- plus free vision and dental care?
7
When the academics analyze the data between two adjacent jurisdictions, do they compare the paychecks or just the wage rate. There are workers who are assigned fewer hours when the minimum wage increases and there are others who voluntarily cut their work hours to prevent cuts to their welfare benefits.
Don't raise the federal minimum wage to $15 per hour. Raising it that high will have catastrophic consequences on the US economy. Prices will rise. The poor will still be poor. They will still be unable to afford the higher prices. We will just be in a never-ending cycle of high prices and unaffordability. Raise it to $10.50, but not to $15. $15 is too high.
Additionally, a $15 minimum wage will cause certain industries to disappear. There will be less small business work, factory work, and publishing in small communities. Great job! The NYTimes is advocating the further erosion of community newspapers.
3
Our local businessmen complain that minimum wages in our state are pushing business to lower wage states. However they refuse to support a national minimum wage that would negate their problem. Like so many, they have been programed to vote against their best interests.
10
@Walter Ingram Yes, let's have the feds once again dictate what we should be paying wage earners, that'll solve our problems.
So we should all just rely on working harder & the magic of the free market, which brought us 40 years of wage stagnation?
3
@Smilodon7 Jeff Bezos is doing great!
It's clear at this point that the state legislatures of states that either have no minimum wage or that peg their minimum wage to the stagnant federal minimum wage believe that the workers in their states who earn at the low end of the state wages are worth less than half of what similarly situated workers in the progressive states are worth. What other explanation can there be for the huge near 100% discrepancy in the comparative minimum wages? What's perplexing is why the workers in the half-pay states continue to elect representatives who believe that raising wages in their states will somehow poison the water.
3
For those that propose that 15 dollars is too much in some areas and more is needed in others then where should the bottom be. There has to be an excepted and recognized bottom and if there are areas that require more I see nothing wrong with paying more but there has to be a floor and our present rate is not a floor it is underwater and is not a sustainable living condition.
5
@george If I were in charge the base would be $12 with yearly adjustments for inflation.
-NW
Yes, the minimum wage must be raised - for there to be any relation between wages and self-sufficiency in our country.
Sadly, the proposed $15 minimum wage would not begin to keep up with costs for minimum wage workers since the brilliant Mollie Orshansky calculated the poverty level for the Social Security Administration in the early 60's.
A thrifty food budget then was 1/4 of the total minimum monthly expenses at that time - and because housing and other costs have skyrocketed as compared to food costs, the same thrifty food budget is 1/8th of total expenses.
Simply put, a minimum wage would need to be somewhere between $25 and $30 now to keep a small family out of poverty, if politicians didn't shamefully keep these indeces artificially low. Indefensibly low.
Shamefully low. We are creating a serf class.
4
While I strongly support the idea of doubling the minimum wage, as a retiree I must ask what that would do to the buying power of my Social Security, fixed pension, and savings. Even a modest increase in inflation caused by such a step might impact millions of us whose incomes partly are also federally based and limited.
Be sure you are raising the tide, not just some of the boats.
8
You need the Bennett exemption for low wage areas, otherwise employment will be crushed, And as a
Rigor comment suggest, unless housing supply is expanded higher minimum wages would quickly be absorbed by higher rents,
3
Keep in mind: MINIMUM really means MINIMUM - hard working people deserve $20, $25, $30 / hour and more. The hard working, working class, is the fuel to a robust economy and a decent standard of living. Guess what else: more income means more income and sales taxes too. BTW, give credit to where credit is due -- why isn't Senator Sanders mentioned in this piece Board?
12
@RalphS
There's more to it than "hard working." There are many hard working people that don't have the necessary skills to have a sought after job.
Raising the minimum wage is a knee jerk reaction to a problem that's been building for generations. It begins in school. By the time a student is in 10th grade, it's fairly obvious if they want or should go to college or to begin a vocation. The perception of vocational schools is one of the lowest achieving students. Of course, that is simply false. Beginning training in a vocation early on will make people that don't want to go to college become more employable early on. The other perception of vocational school is that it's simply shop class. There are numerous vocations that don't need nor require advanced degrees. Electricians, Plumbers, Chefs, Mechanics, and hundreds of more important jobs are opening constantly, but the number of qualified people is at an all time low.
Stop throwing money at the problem. Go to the root. Train the youth. If, and there are many, that don't want to learn a vocation, then they get what they deserve, and that is a low paying job, which reflects their work ethic anyway.
@Bret you cannot discuss the American education system without addressing institutional racism and the school to prison pipeline.
The obvious problem with doing this is that greedy landlords and business owners of all kinds will raise prices simply because they can. Those higher prices will eat up any increase in pay and people will be right back where they started from.
4
According to the Economic Policy Institute the average pay of CEOs in the top 350 US firms was @ 15 million per annum in 2018.
That works out to $1712 per hour - every hour, of every day - 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.
16
Flooding the labor market with no skilled workers, legal and otherwise, has negatively impacted wages, exacerbating the impact of technology job displacement and outsourcing to achieve wage differential goals.
Yes, minimum wage will create dislocation and sector unemployment, but workers deserve the dignity of a livable wage.
If a farmer starved his cows he’d be arrested for animal cruelty but a CEO starving the workers gets in the Forbes 400?
24
@Ted Wampus If someone is laid off they don’t have any wage at all.
-NW
My daughter works part-time at a Restaurant, she told me yesterday that in the middle of the shift the dishwasher hit 40 hrs. So they sent him home to avoid paying him 1.5 x. They then called in the other busboy who came in a suit. Some of the newer staff, were sir can I help you, when he came in. My daughter suspects the dishwashers make the same $10/hr as she does.
It is ridiculous people that live in million dollar houses can pay another $1 for their food.
9
I agree that a higher minimum wage will benefit not only the
workers, but also the economy. Higher minimum wage
will improve standard of living , and increase the ability of
millions of workers to spend more. This will increase consumption and reduce the need for the government to support them.
6
A lot of workers who are trying to support themselves WILL get raises. There’s a lot of people making between $7.25 and $15. And a lot of workers making a little above $15 will get raises too.
3
The majority of those in minimum jobs are supplementing a primary wage earner. Miminum wage jobs are entry level / training jobs. No one expects to support a family or even support themselves on such a job.
7
@Reader In Wash, DC
Thought this miserable justification had been shot down years ago.
Minimum wage jobs are not "just" entry level or training jobs. These are norm for millions of workers; be it in the restaurant, retail, distribution or service sectors - often "part-time" or zero-hour "gig" contracts and without benefits. No one can be expected to support a family or even support themselves on such a job because it is impossible to do so.
14
It's easy to spend other people's money; or to tell other people how to spend their money.
7
@Ross
It’s easy for employers to exploit employees after right-wing campaigns have successfully destroyed worker unions, worker wages and government regulation of the common good.
A living worker wage is not the horror show you fear it will be.
61
@Socrates ....Some people earn wages. Some people pay wages. Some people are wealthy and others are not. Take care not to paint everyone with the same brush.
The goal when one accepts a minimum wage job should be to learn the job and move on to something better as quickly as possible. It should be miserable and boring; not a long term situation.
A McDonald's worker in Denmark is paid $20 per hour and that hasn't put McDonald's out of business there. Also, I should note, that workers seem enthusiastic about there minimum wage jobs. It's the same in Japan. Employees seem to be respected and they are helpful and seem happy. Australia has almost eliminated tipped servers, by having you go up, order your food and take a number to your table, where they bring it to you. On the other hand, my teenager in NJ, couldn't get a minimum wage job at a restaurant, because his Spanish was not good enough. I worked in a factory there, where 95% of the workforce was illegal and while they were paid minimum wage they had to kick back some of their meager earnings to contractors who supplied phony papers and bused them in from dilapidated neighbourhoods, where multiple families lived in illegal apartments. Everyone in my neighborhood also used illegal immigrants to trim their lawns and fix their roofs, other jobs my kids tried to do. We need a federal minimum wage, but we also need e-verify and to fine every employer who uses cheaper labor that isn't legal. Failure to address the issue, lead us to Trump.
65
Triple or quadruple the minimum wage, but lower taxes. Tax revenue will be the same. More cash in people’s pockets less reliance on social programs. Keep the social programs as well for those that can’t work.
1
A better approach is to create incentives to pay more money to lower paid workers.
Income inequality has been driven by two things: US taxation policy and an explosion in executive pay over the last 30 years. So here is an idea:
1. All salaries paid to executives (as defined by retirement rules already in place) over 150% of the median non-executive compensation (including salary and bonuses and a % of granted options) are taxed at 100% as an excise tax paid by the corporation, not the executives. Thus, if the company feels it is that important to pay executives that much then they can pay the tax on it in addition to the high salaries. Board and shareholders will take notice.
2. All of the excise taxes generated are used to reduce tax rates on the bottom 25%ile of workers as an earned income tax credit for all workers, not just families.
If you don't change the incentives, nothing wii change.
5
I've been retired now for about 10 years..actually disability social security or SSI, but previous to that I'd given up working for wages in the traditional sense and went to work for myself hauling scrap metal which by any measure was harder work and far longer hours than any two jobs I'd ever worked in the past. My body is still paying the price for such grueling, hard work, but I'll always be grateful I was able to break free of wage theft employers and take breaks whenever my own body told me I had to instead of whenever a forman said so.
Still, I look back with a degree of envy at young folks ability to earn now when I was always seemingly stuck in very low wage crummy jobs I always hated with a vengeance.
3
While servers and other tip expecting jobs have special rules, I would favor having a minimum wage apply to them, and remove the uncertainty of customers providing their servers with part of their income. That way, we would know that those in the dining area, for example, plus those who are out of sight such as cooks, busboys and dishwashers are getting a living wage, too. Seldom does the tipper know if tips are shared, and how much is skimmed by the employer when tips are entered onto a credit card transaction.
Service seems not to reflect tipping, or vice versa, when there is the current way of doing business, and tipping should go the way of the dinosaur.
I see this push for a federal minimum wage a reassurance to those of us who tip, and hate it.
3
In my small town the talk has been of how rising property values push-up taxes and rents; this is the biggest concern of small independents in closing stores and laying-off workers. Doubling the minimum may push some over the edge, favoring national chains. Better than doubling would be studied, incremental increases;
2
Thank you...and well done. You admitted a mistake that the federal government, and many others at state and locals levels, have refused to admit. Paying Americans a living wage means we all get to live better.
53
@Caroline The singular problem with that, Carolyn, is that improves the lot of the more skilled or desirable worker, and despoils the lot of the less. We have it in Oakland. it has resulted in the closure of many marginal restaurants, including some of the better, while seeing an increase in the number of self serve restaurants, which employ far fewer people. No action taken has zero consequence. What this does is help one set of workers at the expense of another.
2
As I understand it, the argument is that $15/hr or $30,000/yr is the absolute minimum "living wage" in the US.
Consider a single adult with no children earning that $30,000. That person pays more $4,000 of visible* federal payroll and income taxes. There is no EITC to offset the tax.
That doesn't make any sense to me. We shouldn't be collecting taxes from people who are making the bare minimum.
Workers would be better off with a mw of less than $15/hr, with no FIT and with FICA rebated through the EITC. That would have less impact on employment while delivering the dollars to people who need the money.
---
*There is also the hidden half (the "employer share") of FICA, for another $2,000. Economists are nearly unanimous that it comes out of potential wages.
4
I make minimum wage in nyc and get benefits which is awesome and I take home about 20 of that 30k! It’s quite livable with roommates honestly and having no dependents or debts. It does seem like they take too much though! I just my taxes go to help out those who make even less as there are a lot of people working part time or disabled etc who actually can’t even afford food.
Doesn't it make more sense to examine the percentage of profits going to a few CEOs instead of debating whether or not the legions of low wage employees who work in their companies should earn a few dollars more? And why should a minimum wage be the same for all businesses across the board when large companies effect and demand more from society?
3
Colorado voters passed a constitutional amendment to raise the minimum wage sizably. The result? The lowest unemployment in 100 years. Amazing how strong an economy gets when more than just a few people actually have spending money. Oh, by the way. they work HARD for minimum wage. They do.
47
@Chloe Hilton
It's the Trump economy that is repsonsible not Colorado's laws.
1
The provision tying the minimum wage to inflation is a pleasant surprise, even if this bill will almost certainly go nowhere in the Republican-controlled Senate. The hoary old rationale that raising the minimum wage would cause a wave of unemployment was just another corporate excuse to oppose pro-worker legislation. Their tired old song goes something like this: "We'd like to help you, but this will hurt you in the long run, trust us. After all, we are concerned about your interests, and it is not true that the rate of our profits is the be-all and end-all of our existence."
6
Thank you for citing the Democratic House proposed legislation, a real response to a real problem, among about 200 others languishing in the Senate under "Grim Reaper" McConnell. We could use a little more focus on that problem, no?
Minimum wage increases are an obvious and simple correction to the inequality of this era, despite the sky is falling rhetoric from the right. Have you noticed who gets the money in their schemes? By now, you should have.
7
There are many good reasons to raise the minimum wage in the Depressed Wages of America, but one of the best reasons is the pandemic of tip begging from America's counter, wait and service staff throughout the nation.
You can see it in the eyes, obsequious words and ubiquitous tip jars of most service employees throughout the nation as they try to survive on slave wages because American businesses refuse to pay their staff living wages.
The 'free-market' has no conscience.
That's what government is for; to correct the inhumanity of the 'free-market'.
American tipping is out of control because businesses refuse to do the right thing.
If you can't afford to pay your staff a living wage, you're not running much of a business anyway.
Raise the minimum wage now; end the American 'begging for tips' pandemic.
The sky will not fall; and service workers might just be able to afford a meal out.
187
@Socrates I think the country could benefit from a maximum hourly wage. This should be multiplied by 5,840 - the number of hours a year a person could possibly work if they took off eight hours a day to sleep, wash, eat, etc. Above the annual product of the two, the tax rate should jump. I like 49% no ifs, ands, buts or offsets, but hgher rates could be justified.
3
@Socrates
Boeing just gave their "fired" CEO Muilenburg a golden parachute worth $60 million.
3
Imagine if minimum wages were indexed or tied to increases in drug prices! That would pull everyone out of poverty. Indeed, we would no longer need any social supports and those minimum wage workers would also contribute to paying more in taxes that the wealthy evade at every turn. Shut off the massive transfers of wealth from society to the wealthy and end socialism for the rich and the budget deficit would disappear in no time at all.
"Opponents of minimum-wage laws have long argued that companies have only so much money and, if required to pay higher wages, they will employ fewer workers." In that case, they should cut at the top or go out of business. Why should workers and society be penalized for supporting or subsidizing a bad business? Indeed, at $15 an hour a worker can work two instead of three jobs to make ends meet. Poorly run or conceived business should go out of business if it can't pay a decent wage.
"workers will end up with less money" say the rich as they skim all wage increases above $7.25 an hour since before 2009 keeping all productivity gains to themselves as their wealth continues to skyrocket to astronomical levels. Evading taxes at every turn helps increase their wealth hoard they keep out of reach of society which is forced to continue to transfer its wealth to it's greedy masters indefinitely to where we're over $22 trillion in debt.
No doubt owners on the PA side are pocketing more off their employees' and tax payer expense than on the NY side.
4
Increased prices invariably follow increased wages.
5
Simply put, prices aren’t set by wages. Costco has some of the highest wages among its competitors and yet its efficiencies in sourcing and supply allow it to provide affordable prices.
The executives whose wages have increased a hundred-fold in the last 30-40 years have done a good job convincing working Americans that the worst thing that could happen to them is other working Americans getting a raise is going to hurt them.
49
@MP
RE: Simply put, prices aren’t set by wage.
Prices are set by costs. Wages are costs.
@Reader In Wash, DC
Although those at C-level don't appear to have any issue burdening their companies with eye-watering annual percentage cost increases.
3
Yes, but this is a band-aid.
Where will the money come from--- as the corporate world has no interest in future generations, much less the less-fortunate of today?
2
@SLB
The money will come from the corporations. What did you think? The remedy for their lack of interest is, partly, to force them to pay more. Meanwhile we're giving them our tax money, so they have no complaint.
14
@SLB
The current money comes from taxpayers like you in the form of public benefits like food stamps and government housing.
The vast majority of minimum wage workers do not earn enough to be fully supporting themselves, and qualify for benefits.
Your tax dollars are subsidizing corporations' refusal to pay their workers a living wage.
Nobody who is able bodied and works should earn so little as to need government assistance.
21
@Viv
Highly recommended!
Workers earning $15/hr likely still will need to spend all the money they earn. That would be trickle down / trickle up / trickle all around at work for real. How could Republicans possibly argue against it?!
7
I have a better idea - the Federal Treasury should issue a check for $10,000,000 to each and every American Citizen 21 or older. This way, in one single act, poverty would be eliminated.
9
@Ross, I get the sarcasm, but what’s interesting is that if this were done (since we’re fantasizing), my guess is that within two generations the inequality would be back. Equal opportunity does not result in equal outcomes.
2
@John McWade - Inequality is what provides the incentive to strive to better oneself.
2
@Ross
Oh Ross, you wag.
That's it, the moral equivalency between a living minimum wage and "$10 mil to each."
Your views are obnoxious. Americans deserve a living wage.
1
How about developing a federally mandated living wage based on geographical area. Some places need to be $20 an hour.
13
I think that’s up to the states.
1
Why double the federal minimum wage? Why not quadruple it? Or increase it by a factor of 10? The answer is that increasing the price of something decreases the demand for it. That's true for products and for labor. The only way you can demonstrate a small effect on employment is to have a small increase in the effective minimum wage. A meaningful increase in the minimum wage will cause a meaningful decrease in employment.
Studies of the effect of minimum wage laws need to demonstrate that the law actually had a material impact on wages. If labor markets are tight and employers are paying more than minimum wage for entry level workers, of course the minimum wage can be raised without any adverse effects. And such a booming economy also allows businesses to raise prices to offset the wage increase.
The real test would be to increase the minimum wage in a down economy in a depressed area. I haven't seen any studies under those circumstances.
6
@J. Waddell You may wish to actually read the studies in question. By comparing very similar areas separated only by a border and this law, confounding variable arguments are very hard to level against the minimum wage. A better point is that minimum wage increases will do little against automation, which wage increases will probably not affect, but are instead inevitable.
5
@J. Waddell
The current federal minimum wage WOULD be double if cost-of-living increases had been mandated since the last increase.
10
@Andre Dev and nobody is addressing climate change.
If you make entry level or minimum wage jobs pay well enough to support a family on, for some there will be no incentive to move out of the minimum wage job and better oneself. Minimum wage jobs are not meant to be careers - they are meant to be entry level, temporary launch points into the workforce. The minimum wage should be $0.00 per hour.
6
Actually, increasing the minimum wage increases the wages of the workers in the next levels up the ladder. Also, no one believes that $15 per hour is middle class & disincentivizes workers from wanting to go to the next step. The problem is that too many people are stuck at the bottom. They spend every cent they earn & this will help the economy more than letting the top earners keep all the profits.
27
@Ross I can only imagine the indolence and lethargy that might accrue to the masses if they were paid enough to feed themselves. I say keep them hungry lest they become too lazy to walk across the street and apply for one of those numerous high-paying manufacturing jobs available nationwide.
13
@Ross Who are we to assume what workers should aspire to be? Anybody working any job, be it "entry level" or "unskilled" is entitled to a living wage. In many towns and cities $15 barely covers rent and food. It is mighty presumptuous to say that any working person *should* have the "incentive" to do or want anything more than to have shelter and eat.
10
Agree, and it's way overdue! Unlike the trickle down economic nonsense, a rising tide - minimum wage - raises all boats. And, unlike tax breaks for the wealthiest 1%, increases in minimum wage are guaranteed to increase spending and economic growth. Those workers won't squirrel their money away to overseas accounts or tax shelters; they'll be happy to finally be able to afford that car payment or rent a better place to stay in, so that money goes right back into the economy.
Plus, it gives the millions of hard working Americans who make minimum wage some of their dignity back. Being more likely to be able to live on the money you make will do that for you!
14
As long as a country's minimum wage doesn't outstrip private sector productivity, raising the minimum wage *increases* employment. Yes, you read that right: increases.
Why? Because the jobs created by increased spending far outstrip any jobs lost. If the working poor have more money in their pockets they spend it, and that spending creates more jobs. In fact, as study after study has shown, it creates far more jobs than are lost by unprofitable restaurants and mom-and-pop shops who can't afford to pay a living wage.
Given that, in the United States, the minimum wage is faaaaaar below the productivity-per-worker rate, there is no downside to raising the minimum wage. It's one of the few, genuine win-win situations in politics and economics, and it's criminal that we haven't raised it.
32
it makes sense to increase the minimum wage but what if right for NYC or san francisco is too high for lower-cost of living locations.
Like the IRS guidelines for per-diem travel expense deductions, the minimum wage can be set by locality. And indexed for inflation.
4
Oregon actually has three minimum wages. It's $12.50 within the Portland Urban Growth Boundary. It's $11.25 in other more populated areas, I-5 and the coast, and $11.00 in the rural areas. Beginning in 2023, it will be indexed to inflation. The unemployment rate in Oregon is 4.1%, so it must not be causing layoffs.
Yeah Oregon!
55
In general I agree that the federal minimum wage should be $15.00. However I agree with Senator Bennett of Colorado that there should be exemptions for rural communities. My local small convenience store/grocery store/gas station operates on a very small margin and as I have discussed with the owner she told me that a larger minimum wage just wouldn’t work here in rural Vermont. The current minimum wage in Vermont is currently $10.78 which, while not really adequate, does enable a two-worker family to squeeze by. Nevertheless housing costs are high here so, as in many other states, housing is a very big issue.
@Jordan Davies - Those people who are squeezing by aren’t able to pay much in taxes for the things we all need and use and that means the burden falls on everyone else to pay for infrastructure etc.
1
An increase in minimum wage will not affect employment only if the wage is not above the market wage for a particular job. When the minimum wage is higher than market wage, there is a decrease in employment. Seattle is the current proof of this common sense axiom.
1
"Living wage" only makes sense if you keep prices fixed, otherwise they will adjust to make it unlivable.
3
@DL : wages have risen sharply all on their own in the last 3 years.
In 2016...my local Target (Ohio) was paying $9.25 an hour to start. I know this, because a friend took a part-time job there as a cashier.
Today....they literally have a huge banner over the front of the building saying "$13 an hour to start!"
That's like a 25% increase in three years!
It's still not a vast wage, but again...this is the Rustbelt and the cost of living is lower than the coasts.
NOTE: if your wages went from $19,000 a year to $27,000 a year....it sounds great, but you would almost certainly lose your food stamp benefit AND lose eligibility for 100% FREE Medicaid -- forcing that worker onto the Obamacare exchanges, with have HUGE DEDUCTIBLES vs. 100% FREE Medicaid.
That loss alone would wipe out every nickel of the financial advantage.
The problem that this increase minimum-wage is ignoring is huge… That jobs which were once thought of as temporary, interim, for recent high school grads or summer gigs are now expected to support families of two, three and more. This is patently ridiculous, these types of jobs were never intended to support a family. People were supposed to take such jobs and move on, and move up. There’s a stagnancy that has taken hold of our economy, due in large part to the huge number of under skilled Labor which has demographically become such a significant proportion of many of our state’s economies. It’s not sustainable, and a so-called living wage isn’t going to change it.
25
@LARealist
"now expected to support families of two, three and more"
Right wing nonsense. The minimum wage is expected to support ONE - and it does not do that anywhere.
Production has kept going up and all major US corporations have been making record profits for decades. It is called GREED, plain & simple. As noted above, shareholders and CEOs can survive on a few million less.
"under skilled Labor" - the problem is companies will no longer train workers, or pay them for training. It used to be expected.
Prices do not need to go up. Those at the top need to let it "trickle down" as the right wingers have promised for decades now.
A well-paid population does not need much in the way of social programs.
91
@Susan You do notice that one of the first things right wingers always want to cut is public education. Trump even said he loves the uneducated. Not everyone needs or wants a college education but we should definitely offer those students access to vocational education. You can make a very decent wage in the trades but schools tend to push the four year college degree.
19
@Cindy Mackie
I would not blame schools. I do blame politicians like Bush Jr. and Obama, and many others.
1
The article suggests a solution that to me would make far more sense. Why not set the minimum wage at a percentage of the cost of living in a given area. The neatest effect of creating a “dynamic” minimum wage would be that it would incentivize development in cheaper places to live.
3
A $15/hr minimum wage may not seem like a big deal in New York or San Francisco, but in rural New Mexico it doesn't make a lot of sense. The trouble with a Federal minimum wage is that the cost of living is not uniform throughout the country. There needs to be some metric that can be used to level the playing field.
3
@W.A. Spitzer I live in rural New Mexico (very close to you actually) and I strongly disagree. From the Economic Policy Institute’s Family Budget Calculator this is what a single individual needs in order to attain a modest yet adequate standard of living in Grant County, NM:
MONTHLY COSTS
1 adult and no children
Grant County, NM
Housing $541
Food $273
Child care $0
Transportation $873
Healthcare $300
Other Necessities $329
Taxes $444
Monthly Total $2,760
Annual Total $33,126
8
@former NYCer ....Are you arguing that the cost of living throughout the country is uniform? Are you arguing that a student at WNMU needs to be paid $33,126 per year for working a part time job? If you are familiar with rural New Mexico then you know that $15/hr is more than the local economy will bare for piece meal work. And by the way - two single adults living together and working for $15/hr would have an income of $66,256/year which is way more than the county average for a family of four.
@W.A. Spitzer
That calculation is for a 40 hr work week. There's no reason rural communities should have to subsidize Walmart's profits with local low wage labor:
"Regional minimum wages bake in low wages to already low-wage places. Rural counties and Southern cities—where wages have been depressed for a variety of social, racial, political, and economic reasons—would effectively have their low-wage status locked in by a regionally adjusted federal minimum wage. For example, in many low-wage areas, the predominant employers of low-wage workers are big national businesses, such as Walmart and McDonald’s, who can afford to pay far better wages than they do. Their position as the predominant employer in many rural or small-town areas gives them monopsony power and allows them to essentially set wages not just for themselves, but for all low-wage jobs in the region."
https://www.epi.org/publication/the-federal-minimum-wage-should-be-a-robust-national-wage-floor/
3
This $15/hr isn't far off from Andrew Hangs "Freedom Dividend" of $1000 per month. Works out to about $6.25/hr., add that to the $7.25 and your almost there.
While were at it close those loopholes opened up by Treasury for big business in one of your earlier articles today, and Walla! It will all be paid for.
1
@cherrylog754 It should be Yang. I hate autocorrect.
It is noted i the article that there can be a significant difference between large metropolitan areas and smaller metropolitan and rural areas. The suggested remedy is a raise in federal minimum wage. We already have that in place - it is called 50 states. The federal government has no place setting the minimum wage under the 10th Amendment. Let each state determine what is best for its citizens and stop federal overreach. Also, we have seen restaurant closings and significant impacts in some areas this piece conveniently omits.
7
If your research is so thorough why didn't you study Seattle, the first entity (via their Left wing idealogue city council) to raise the minimum wage to $15.
The result has been a disaster for many of treasured local restaurants who have been going out of business. The chains like the Olive Garden keep going. . .but those outside city limits help make up for the little if anything made by smaller number of them inside the city.
Methinks a more independent study would yield different results and factor in other variables this study lacked.
14
@Irving Nusbaum I work as a cook at a downtown Seattle restaurant. I started at $15.40 per hour, and in the past year have gotten two raises to $17 per hour.
The cost of living is high. I'm paying nearly a grand every month for a micro apartment.
Still, the restaurant has a certain amount of turnover. People come and go. So the $15 minimum isn't high enough to keep some workers working here.
58
@Chris Good for you Chris. I applaud you. My information came from a Seattle Times article which included interviews from some well-known Seattle based restaurant owners/chefs who just couldn't make it. . .even after raising prices to cover not just the cooks but the wait staff, dishwashers, etc. . .at which point they started losing customers. . .so it turned out to be a catch 22.
1
As with any well-intended federal plan, there are unintended consequences. I agree with much of the editorial but have concerns for small business owners that try to compete with national chains, such as fast food restaurants. They have already closed down in many small towns across America.
As a social security recipient, why not use the same formula to increase a minimum wage that social security uses? I'll leave it to the politicians to decide what the starting point should be, but isn't it awfully arbitrary to set a specific target hourly dollar wage for a future date when we cannot predict what the needs will be at that date? Maybe $15/hr is good today, but will it be in 2025?
Another crucial aspect that should go hand-in-hand with the next minimum wage increase is that it should be automatically inflation adjusted every year. Then there won't be a political battle every time it needs to be raised to keep up with the cost of living.
17
Demographics will help keep joblessness numbers low for another decade. In the 1960's the demographics of the depression years kept unemployment low and wage grew. Under the GOP we see low unemployment as baby boomers retire and meager wage growth.
In other words, $7.50 in 2009 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $8.99 in 2019, a difference of $1.49 over 10 years. The 2009 inflation rate was -0.36%. The current inflation rate (2018 to 2019) is now 2.05% 1. If this number holds, $7.50 today will be equivalent in buying power to $7.65 next year.
So for just 2019 that is 238.40 lost per month. Multiply that times 12. Do that for 10 years for difference(it would be less each year going backwards) and you get a significant loss.
No Wonder Homeless skyrockets!
3
It always amazes me that people (more Republican than not) accept "trickle-down economics as effective without blinking. And tout a tax cut for corporate America as "job-creating" and "wage raising", despite facts and personal experience that prove otherwise. But just straight up raising the minimum wage is always cast in a bad light. It's a job killer, it's socialist, it's unAmerican, it's bad for the economy when there is little to support these assertions. We know of course who benefits from those deficit-busting tax cuts, and who benefits from a rise in the minimum wage...
109
@WhichyOne ...When inflation is high it means that demand is greater than supply. When inflation is low it means supply is greater than demand. Trickle down is supply side economics; while raising the minimum is demand side economics. Neither is uniformly applicable to every situation. In any given economic environment it is important to recognize which one is apt to be more beneficial.
2
@W.A. Spitzer trickle down has been the Republican mantra since Reagan and we see how that’s worked for the middle class. Trump’s tax cut has made the problem of inequality even worse. If something isn’t done in another generation I think there will be two classes....poor and wealthy with little in between.
21
@W.A. Spitzer
"When inflation is high it means that demand is greater than supply. When inflation is low it means supply is greater than demand." Eh?
I suggest (a) studying the difference between correlation and causation, (b) finding the data that tell us what is really happening, and (c) taking one's head out of the cloud of economic theorizing.
10
Ah, but Corporate America has found a way around a minimum wage: the so called "gig economy".
Watch for "independent contractors" bringing your food to the table at every restaurant. Paid by the table, not the hour.
Frying hamburgers paid by each hamburger fried, not by the hour.
Some VC will come up with an app for it as soon as the minimum wage is raised, and he'll take his company public, and walk away with a billion or two from a company that can't figure out how to make a profit despite gouging those it exploits. The app itself will be written by someone in India for $5 a day, plus lunch.
8
@The Poet McTeagle They do that with health insurance now. Companies offer health insurance for full time employees but they keep many employees at just an hour or two a week from meeting full time status. It’s greed at the top plain and simple. You can’t claim hardship on the company when you are paying your executives millions while paying your workers a pittance.
4
@Cindy Mackie
To be fair, that was a failure of (Democratic) legislation to allow those loopholes.
If a worker is consistently working almost full time hours, and conveniently gets their hours cut just around the time they would have to be legally considered full time, that's a clear case of abuse. Yet it's legal because it was never baked into the law that you couldn't do those tricks.
Isn't it clear that a minimum wage that isn't tied to costs of living is a failed system? It means that political gridlock or other factors not the fault of minimum-wage workers ends up impoverishing workers - as in the fact of the minimum wage not increasing since 2009.
Same with the gasoline tax - it should be pegged to the costs of buying what governments buy with it - roadways, maintenance and transit services. To peg it at a specific rate and leave it there for many years is contrary to the purpose of it.
Yes, automatic increases based on costs of living create more cost-push inflationary pressures than otherwise exist. But as the editorial notes regarding other concerns about minimum wages - the pressures may be overstated.
What I'd like to see is a sober analysis of the pros and cons of a cost-of-living pegged minimum wage (and gasoline tax) so citizens and elected leaders can make rational decisions about how to fix these presently irrational systems.
25
My tax money pays for this. I have an important say in this matter:
Doubling the federal minimum wage is fine with me.
Only if it is accompanied by cutting the federal staff in half.
8
@Bhaskar
Hmmm. As far as I know taxpayers "having an important say in this matter" when it comes to federal spending is not a part of the deal. That is what elected representatives are for. Since you are from the great state of Texas, I will point out that Texas federal representatives have given lip service to cutting the federal budget time and time again, yet have chosen not to do so by increasing spending and paying for tax cuts for upper wage earners with debt (time and time again) when in complete control of the the federal purse. Why not give it to someone who can really use it? I will add that the federal minimum wage is the lowest paid by all employers in the economy, federal government included. I am willing to bet that the feds pay a very small percentage of their employees less than $15, if any. If it cost almost no "my tax money" would you be for it? Perhaps the fed should spend more of "my tax money" on education so folks can understand the issues
21
@Bhaskar The federal minimum wage isn’t just for federal workers. And what makes you assume that federal employees don’t do our country a service?
7
@Cindy Mackie
Maybe they do. Not sure that we need as many of them, or they merit a 100% pay hike.
How is it that corporations are cutting their workforce due to automation, but the federal government keeps growing?
Private companies give a pay hike only if they see higher value in their employees. Are federal employees worth twice as much as they once were?
And please use small and simple words when you explain, so our fellow citizens like @A can understand while they wait for my tax dollars to trickle down to be educated.
I agree/disagree. The standard of living varies greatly depending on where you live. $15 / hr. is great in Texarcana. In Seattle....not so much.
It would make more sense to base the minimum wage on a percentage of local cost of living or rent.
5
Why stop there?
Let's give everyone $50 or $100 an hour.
If you're going to give a wage that's pulled from a rabbits hat and not based on sound economic value produced then by all means guess high and see what happens.
24
@Milo pulled out of a rabbit's hat? It's based on the general estimated cost of living for basic necessities - and $15 is still barely enough. We're already paying for higher minimum wages through other means since people currently on $8/hr require food stamps, section 8 housing, etc. Why not raise the minimum wage, give dignity and autonomy back to the worker so that they don't have to coordinate payments from 5 different federal or state agencies to make ends' meet? Imagine the efficiency of streamlining that whole process with one sufficient, respectable wage?
20
@Milo
"Let's give everyone $50 or $100 an hour"
That's probably too much for a minimum wage, Milo.
2
@Milo
Sad, Milo. No one is talking about your absurd hypothetical of $50 to $100 an hour.
"Sound economic value."
Are there no poorhouses?
Being able to support your family is not "pulled from a rabbit's hat."
It is decency.
2
I'm no left wing liberal, but if there's enough money to pay a disgraced CEO $25 million in severance, there's enough to raise the minimum wage.
397
@Brad
Thanks for the good sense.
Minor objection: There are no "left wing liberals". Liberals are basically centrists.
32
@Brad
When Bernie Sanders first proposed a $15 dollar federal minimum wage it was called radical and radical socialism by Democratic Moderates.
Today 7 States have adopted the $15 dollar minimum wage, it's not so radical anymore.
While rents quadruped in major cities, the minimum wage increased very little.
I assume "Medicare for all" will not seem so radical in a very short time, just like a $15 minimum wage.
68
@PeaceLove
Yes, I remember that the "sensible" minimum wage promoted by Clinton was $12/hour nationwide. $15, as Sanders promoted, was just too much to have to pay. Easy for her to say.
There was a lot to dislike about Clinton in 2016, but this part of her platform was appalling.
15
Ok, so do that.
And now when are you going to stop the price of buying a home and going to college from rising at double the inflation rate or more?
And when are you going to teach people to save money instead of borrowing what they can't pay to buy a house or send kids to college?
Good luck with raising the minimum wage without coming up with answers for the rest of that. I'm for raising the minimum wage, but not in a void of responsibility.
13
@D Collazo
"And when are you going to teach people to save money instead of borrowing what they can't pay to buy a house or send kids to college?"
People on minimum wage have no money to save as what they bring home is not enough for the basic necessities of housing, food and medical. They will never be able to afford a house or send their kids to college.
163
@catlover Yes, you are making my point for me in another way. Just raising minimum wage is hardly the end of the problem.
@D Collazo
>> "And now when are you going to stop the price of buying a home and going to college from rising at double the inflation rate or more?"
Look around. The cost of buying a house or going to college is already beyond the people we're talking about...
2
Henry Ford in my State more than a century ago figured out that paying worker a living wage would enable them to be a part of the middle class.
What is the downside of paying workers enough to take care of their families? To those that oppose a minimum wage, have you no decency?
203
@W.A. Spitzer If you need that worker in your business then they should be worth enough to have a wage they can live on. When they have to rely on public benefits to survive I am subsidizing your business costs and why should I?
89
@Cindy Mackie ...You missed the point. If a business can sustain a given wage of $10/hr but not $15/hr; would the public be better off if the business continued and the public paid the extra $5 in welfare; or would the public be better off if the business failed and the public paid $15/hr in welfare? It should be obvious that not every worker is capable of providing $15/hr of value, but almost everyone is better off having meaningful work. Do not assume that every employer is a millionaire ripping off their employees....because that isn't always true.
8
@PatMurphy77 the problem Pat, that Henry Ford did not foresee, is that big businesses like Walmart whose employees had to welfare to survive, is that in a globalized world there are enough people who will buy their products at the price they demand.
However, IMO its a losing game. When more and more people are working two or three gig jobs just to pay rent and buy food, we would have reached bottom.
What happens then? A worldwide depression? or we are just playing a faster an faster game of musical chairs between countries? Today, the Chinese are no longer playing and they funded us for a long time. We have the SE Asians and then the Africans. After that we may have to find aliens to pass the buck of the lowest wages.
5
Couldn't agree more and the facts are there to prove the point. But our Democracy has been taken hostage, facts do not matter and Warden Mitch McConnell will never support this.
48
@KF
IF you are in KY, vote him out. If you are anyplace else, contribute to his opponents election funds. Make Moscow get defeated in this coming election.
1
Why stop at $15? Make it $1,000 an hour! The reason is both numbers are unreasonable. Each is a levitation machine that increases unemployment. Minimum wages outlaw unskilled labor.
23
Thank you for the false equivalence, Jim Dunlap.
$15 an hour is not unreasonable; $1000/hour is unreasonable.
$15/hour is $30,000 per year full time for 2000 hours of work; hardly a day at the beach.
Your overreaction to paying humans a living wage is disturbing.
350
@Jim Dunlap
Your Libertarian idea has a beautiful simplicity.
Unfortunately, like most Libertarian ideas there are unintended, brutal side effects known politely as "Externalities" and more honestly as "Collateral Damage".
By the way, minimum wages do not outlaw unskilled labor - that is a bizarre, unsupportable statement.
What is true, as that if we had free trade agreements that required reasonable environmental protections and living wage jobs among our trading partners, the world-wide quality of life would skyrocket.
31
@Socrates
After paying Federal Income Tax the $15 hourly wage leaves $535 a week net income.
8
"Among the beneficiaries: people who work for tips. Federal law lets businesses pay $2.13 an hour to waiters, bartenders and others who get tips, so long as the total of tips and wages meets the federal minimum."
Add to this list people who can't figure out why they're expected to "counter tip" food service clerks, when they're not expected to "counter tip" employees who provide similar services for other businesses, e.g., grocery store clerks, Walmart clerks, McDonald's clerks, etc.
9
@Carl F: I am all for paying servers and bartenders the regular minimum wage, whatever that is.
But then: no tipping.
You should ask the waiters and bartenders if they WANT THIS....most prefer tips! tax free cash at the end of every shift!
My stepdaughter was a waitress for 17 years, and worked her way up to a very upscale eatery where the tips were large. She took home about $30,000 a year with only a 23 hour workweek -- most of it in unreported cash -- meaning, she qualified easily for food stamps and financial aide for college.
My guess is that most waiters/bartenders would be furious at any attempts to change the current system.
@Concerned Citizen I'm all for tipping actual waiters and bartenders. I have doubts, however, as to whether certain people, e.g., those who appear to do little more than operate cash registers at a lunch or bakery counter, qualify as waiters or bartenders.