I have been so frustrated trying to find bras that fit well and are comfortable and attractive. I have even considered breast reduction in order to find bras that fit right. Going to Poland sounds like way more fun! Since I can't do that right now, where in the US do I find (or order online) bras made in Poland?
104
This was a fascinating story with great pictures. Creating beautiful lingerie that fits is an art. I prefer simple casual clothing, but wearing lovely lingerie underneath is my secret pleasure. European lingerie is so much more than the plain foam bras that dominate the bra department in mainstream American stores.
34
Honestly, I gave up on "conventional" bras a long time ago. Besides all of the issues mentioned here with bands and fits and cup sizes... my breasts are radically different sizes, making getting a well fitting and comfortable conventional bra even more of an impossibility.
Now I just wear sports bras every day.
12
WOW. What an important piece of information. Wonder where the best socks are made.
8
I always go to small bra specialist shops. They are wonderful and will fit you perfectly. Inevitably they best bras are from Europe. Maybe a trip to Poland is in my future.
16
I think the whole measuring the breasts while bent over method is spot on. In America when you're measured you don't think about how your entire breast isn't fully measured because half of it is being hidden because it's literally resting on your chest/stomach (if you have pendulous breasts like me). It seems a very logical method that I'd love to try. Every bra I've worn since puberty has been an issue, mainly with the straps always sliding down my shoulders every 5 seconds of my day. As I write this my bra straps are sliding down my shoulders. I don't know if this means the cup size is too small or too big? I don't know and I don't yet have the funds to get to Poland.
202
In 1993 I went to a specialty bra fitter for a corset bra for my wedding day. An older polish woman “fitted” me with a perfect (wildly expensive) corset that made my Carolina Herrera wedding dress look even better.
Pro tip (and fair warning) being fitted for a bra is not for them weak of heart or those who are shy. It can feel like being assaulted by your granny. Awkward but effective.
61
I see many people recommending getting a fit from something online but it seems to me that one of the most important things is finding a great fitter. Since I read about it in an article in the NY Times, I've travelled 2+ hours to Brooklyn to #irislingerie http://www.irislingeriebrooklyn.com/ and was amazed that the young woman looked at me and knew the correct size. (For the heck of it, I asked her to measure and her first assessment was spot on). I will check if they carry the Polish bras.
11
The day I found a business owned by women in Wappingers Falls Ny, my life changed. These women are at the top of their chosen field, I do hope they have healthcare.
They offer some beautiful and comfortable lingerie in the same price range. But when can I book a trip to Poland!
12
How wonderful it would be to find a reasonably priced bra that actually fits and is not only not torture to wear, but actually comfortable! As a woman with breasts so asymmetrical as to vary a full size between sides, and having no tolerance for discomfort just for vanity's sake, I have had to resort to sport bras, and those I wear only under duress and to appear somewhat conforming to social mores. IMHO, bras are an instrument of torture designed by men for their viewing pleasure.
7
Reading the comments from men, I have to wonder: If the Times ran an article on better-fitting jockstraps, how many women would feel compelled to weigh in?
164
I find it strange that so many men feel the need to comment here. One in particular seems to have commented several times, most of them lording it over the women's responses. How could he presume to know more than we do? I wonder if he would welcome our critiques of men's underwear.
131
Two things, underwire bra and bras of synthetic materials, have not worked for us. Cause skin itching and general discomfort when the wire cuts into the skin (not literally but pressure wise). My daughter who is nearing 30 prefers sports bras that have support but no wires or hooks nothing. My mother’s generation always wore cotton fitted bodice in their youth. Now 92, my mom is bra less but there’s no sagging :). She still does breast muscles strengthening exercises (pressing palms together) and arm stretching exercises.
9
I didn't see any mention of meeting the needs of women who have difficulty finding great fitting post-reconstruction bras. I wonder if the Polish manufacturers have been able to help in those circumstances?
10
But do they make them without wires? I dislike wires, immensely.
16
Now I want to go visit Poland.
15
There is another important component to this discussion — the exploitation of the workers in the US and other countries who make bras and other women’s under garments. The working conditions are abysmal, as is the pay scale. Benefits are paltry, if they exist at all. This is true in factories from the US to Pakistan to China.
One buyer I know called me in tears 25 years ago after her first visit to a manufacturer’s facility in Virginia. She recently told me it’s worse today.
145
@Livi you just described most US jobs since 2009, when CFOs discovered they can further American workers.
37
I recall that in his classic 1970s book "The Russians", in a chapter on the generally poor quality of Soviet consumer goods, a Russian woman told Times reporter Hedrick Smith that she greatly preferred Polish bras to Soviet ones, since the latter seemed to be made only for large-busted peasant girls (as she sort of put it).
Looks like this goes back quite a ways ...
8
So many American woman have surgically enhanced breasts, and now that seems to be the ideal. No wonder Victoria's Secret bras don't fit well - they seem to be made without any notion of what a real breast requires in a bra.
29
I've stopped wearing bras 2.5 years ago. I just wear an extra undershirt, freeing and no pain. We don't need them , it's a racket.
13
Wow. Wish I could go braless. But no can do; I’m a 36C now and a small person. The weight and movement hurt if not supported. But I love my breasts. They fed my baby for 13 months until he weaned himself. He’s now 6’1” and 180 pounds! He expanded my rib cage by 2 inches while I was pregnant with him. But after breastfeeding him I went back down to cup size C. Women’s bodies are miracles.
50
@Alice Haining That's fine. Be happy with what you have, be proud of what you've done, and let the Emilys of the world go on ranting if it makes them feel better.
7
Thank you for this story. As a large breasted woman i am constantly adjusting straps, painful bands and unsupportive cups.
22
Similar to this, more men I know wear 13 shoe than any other size, yet they are often in short supply. It's like they decided decades ago that there is little demand for that size but now we grow bigger than we used to. God help you if you wear larger than a 13. If you prefer a 12.5 you are often out of luck as well.
Get with it shoe companies, stock the larger sizes!
9
@Dan Thanks, Dan. They really meant this story to be about men's shoes but somehow got sidetracked along the way.
104
Interesting article but where does one buy Polish bras in the US other than perhaps New York City.
31
@Mary Ann Interesting comment, but why does the bra have to be made in Warsaw? Are Polish breasts really unique?
8
@Mary Ann
I went through this article for addresses online or elsewhere. What's the point of a consumerist piece when the reader cannot obtain the item in question except by going brashopping (one word) in POLAND? Oy.
18
@Mary Ann seeking through a comments here I see that bra boutiques exists in smaller cities in USA. Maybe try to find them on Google Maps?
5
Poland is a beautiful country, if you have to travel to buy a well-fitting bra, that's as good a place as any and better than most.
As a man, that's all I want to contribute to the discussion. Anything else falls under the 5th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
29
I think that the reason why it so hard to find well-fitting bras that do not itch, pinch, etc. in this country is that designers have long ago lost sight of what real breasts look like and how they move. For fashion designers, the ideals breast are breasts that are small enough that they don't require any support at all. For lingerie designers, the ideal breasts are fake boobs that are round and perfectly placed on a women's torso. And for sports bra designers, the ideal breasts are small to non-existent.
73
@StatuteofLiberty Also, for few decades mainstream bra manufacturers moved production to 2nd and 3rd world countries. There may be shortage of people with expertise in R&D, so they may lack some perfection.
Smaller brands have to be better than mainstream ones if they want to survive on the market and thrive.
Luckily, in Poland R&D is a job where professionals exists. Even more! Sometimes universities are engaged in the process and 3D scanning is one of design tools.
10
Great informative article. My mother wore Edith Lance bras for
decades and as an 'over-endowed and pendulous ' (from being
bound in her late teens) woman she stressed that confidence and
comfort were well worth the price.
I. Magnin in Beverly Hills had a bra-fitter for many, many years and many of us benifitted greatly from her extensive knowledge. A most kind, helpful and gracious Lady.
With the loss of the French Elastic straps and the advent of
solid wide straps in current bras my shoulders are red and
indented as seen when I remove my bra at the end of each
and every day. Poland, I'm on my way !
Does anyone recall the shoe-fitters at J L Hudson in
Detroit? Who says we're a service-oriented economy.
Not that I've noticed. I pump my own gas, check my
own purchases at Home Depot and many markets and I haven't noticed much in the way of savings. What say you?
57
@RYR.G
Couldn’t agree more. It’s self-serve everywhere now. Soon there will be no more human staff at grocery stores.
20
@Alice Haining - "Soon there will be no more human staff at grocery stores."
Its already happened. Been to an AmazonGo store? You simply pick an item off of a shelf, put it into your bag, and walk out the front door without even having to deal with self-checkout.
6
She was bound? How did that make her large and pendulous?
10
Looks like I need to fly to Poland to finally find a bra that finally fits well.
19
A few years back I found out about a wonderful bra shop on the Lower East Side - the woman behind the counter (definitely an old hand) just looked at me and got the size right. This was compared to the other shop I went to on the UWS who sold me a bra that just became more and more painful over time.
I'm very willing to try new, small places - it's almost impossible to find the correct bra otherwise. But sadly I'm seeing them disappear around me over time.
16
That was orchard street corsets on the LES. They are amazing. P
12
@I Marcus After insisting she was a size she had never worn before, that store sold my hard to fit daughter two bras that never fit right and that she ended up throwing away a few months after purchase. (When she'd expressed some doubt that the bras she'd been offered were right for her, she'd been basically told she didn't know what she was talking about.) I'm sure they were just getting rid of merchandise they wanted off their shelves. The store is tiny, grim, and not particularly clean, the inventory is extremely limited, and the service is brusque, rushed, and unfriendly. The experience is basically "Here's the bra we choose for you. No, we have nothing else for you to try. Take it or leave it. We need the fitting room now." Horrible place, riding on a decades old reputation that it no longer deserves.
3
If "excessive movement of my chest" is the problem, try Enell. It doesn't have a band/cup equation, just a range that makes sense, and its own sizing system. The brand concentrates on sports bras and definitely won't make someone who prizes separation of the breasts or lace gewgaws and the like happy, but Enell goes the distance and answers the need for a bra that you put on and forget you're wearing. It makes doing up 10 hooks and eyes a worthwhile inconvenience.
IIRC, this business of sizing down the band and sizing up the cups was all the rage several years ago here in the U.S., then faded from lifestyle headlines. I figured it was because when you size down the band, you radically increase chest discomfort through the day, from movement and meals. Add to that the need to wear a Spanx-type garment to smooth the newly created or enlarged back bulges, and you have a decidedly un-American, uncomfortable proposition. IMO.
23
Yes sister. That’s exactly right. A travesty TK size down the chest band and cut your middle like a cheese sliver.
10
@Penn I don't 100% agree with thesis that smaller band and bigger cup wanished because of comfort. My fiance moved from mainstream 75D to 65G few years ago and She is happy that I convinced her that she need a brafitting session.
3
Orchard Corset on Orchard Stree on the Lower East Side of Manhattan. Peggy is an amazing fitter. Don’t expect a luxury boutique experience though. The shop hasn’t changed decor since the 1930s but your Girls will thank you. Closed Saturday.
34
I used to wear a 36H but could never find any so I settled for a 38G. No matter what I bought, the bra was never very comfortable and my pendulous breasts made it difficult for me to stand or sit upright for any length of time, difficult when you’re trying to meditate. Eventually I got a breast reduction and am now a 34-36D. Maybe I wouldn’t have needed surgery if I’d bought my bras in Poland.
21
I have spent a small fortune at KrisLine, but to have a bra that does not feel like I am wearing one is worth every penny! I wear a 44 G. fits like a glove and a friend who I hadn't seen in a while accused me of having a lift. I am not a spring chick, I am in my 6th decade. 50 years of wearing the wrong size bra is finally over. It is never too late.
68
On a trip to Paris in the early 2000s I discovered the undies at Monoprix, a chain department store. The bras were better made, nicer fabric, prettier, fit better than American brands and competitively priced. I told all my girlfriends about them. If I couldn’t get there myself, I’d have one of them pick up a few for me. Unfortunately, last time i was there in 2018, the shelves at Monoprix were dominated by Playtex.
Thanks for the tip about Polish bras.
15
As a fifteen- year-old in the 1970’s, 5’4”, weight 112 pounds, I was wearing a 34C. Not fat. All the women in my family were/are large-breasted. And all the mammogram technicians comment about my “very dense” breast tissue. When I had my son at age 41 I produced enough milk for four babies.
11
I produced milk like crazy for both of my daughters, too! My breasts are the opposite of dense, though (very thankful for the lower risk of breast cancer).
I was in a AA cup before both of my pregnancies and -- when my milk "came in," each time -- went all the way to an A cup. :p
If I wasn't employed, I'd probably never wear a bra.
8
So thankful I could breastfeed.
4
I too recommend UK brands Freya and Fantasie for a wide range of sizes, as well as Empreinte (French)
18
A well fitting bra not only helps you stand taller, it supports your ability to be more physically active, with more confidence, and less physical pain and discomfort. It’s beyond cosmetic. And yet, I continue to struggle to find bras, and clothes, that fit my breast size. Reading that there are much better bras out there, better ways of sizing and supporting women’s’ bodies, reminds me of how tired I am from growing-up in a culture where breasts are objects of fetish or annoyance, to be groped or loathed (like when, at our local dance studio, some students were pressured to have surgical breast reductions). Clearly, there are better ways and better bras.
415
@TLockyer Our obesity is a Communist-bloc plot! I wish I could blame them the soviets, but it's all my doing.
1
@TLockyer "...reminds me of how tired I am from growing-up in a culture where"
I fully sympathize, but..really, you have only one alternative to "growing up in a culture where..."
4
As a retired GYN physician I observed that this is more than a cosmetic issue. Over the years I saw many patients who scheduled office visits out of concern regarding breast pain and tenderness which prompted their fears of breast cancer or other serious diseases. In most cases the problem was a bra which seemed to fit well in the store but was found to cause problems when it was worn for a full workday. I do not have any magical answers but I did want to emphasize that this is a problem.
500
@Telasha
Thank you for adding your perspective that this is not a frivolous issue for many women, but one of physical well-being.
107
I just txtd this article to my wife as a late Christmas present. Thank you! Knew pierogies were great never imagined Polish bras too.
20
@Jay Amberg visit Poland for a few days, week or two. Not only bras are beautiful!
10
What about those of us of modest proportions? I am very tall with rather small breasts. I don't need much support but I need something for modesty. Whenever I find something that almost works, it seems to disappear from the marketplace.
Any recommendations?
9
@gcs Wacoal
13
@gcs Agree on Wacoal - have worn the same style for 25 plus years. Also try PrimaDonna - pricey but continue their basic lines for a very long time.
7
Fascinating piece of information, and a diametrical change from what I knew.
In January 1977, I was traveling on a milk-run night train from Berlin to Warsaw, and shared a half-filled compartment with a Polish woman and her mother.
She explained that they were coming back from shopping in East Berlin, which I guess was the big Hong Kong for East Europe. Then she smiled slyly and opened the top two buttons on her blouse, and gestured completely befuddled me to look inside.
Well, it was all very innocent. What she was so proud about was that she was wearing two (2) new bras from East Berlin, which she was smuggling past Polish customs.
So, I guess that today it goes the other way: Berliners head for Poland for fine bras. Wearing two at once for smuggling is probably a lost Communist art.
76
It's a shame the author felt it necessary to reduce this topic - of great significance for many women - to just a bit of frivolity by dismissing it with "No one needs to be reminded that there are many more important things to be concerned with than underwear."
Shall we expect the same disclaimer in every article about, oh, sports and cars and real estate and luxury goods and entertainment and everything else to which the Times devotes column inches/pixels that is not a matter of life and death?
Quality brassieres are highly engineered garments that blend form with function expertly. But this is an article about women who have revolutionized an industry whose products are targeted at women, so it can't possibly be treated seriously, right?
221
British bra fitters are great too. It was an eye opener and a breast saver! My big discovery? I needed a much smaller band size and a much bigger cup. My British fitter was not surprised. All of her American clients had the same misfitting issues.
When I returned to the US, the Nordstrom salesperson was horrified when I asked about cup size J. It was as if I'd asked for clothing for a carnival sideshow, instead of an average sized American woman. I haven't returned there since.
In lieu of an expensive trip abroad, look for British brands like Elomi or Panache, which are carried on many US websites. Beautiful, supportive bras beyond what is typically on offer for American bras.
70
@JMA How do you get measured for these brands or sizes in the US? I can't find a website to do it myself.
7
I wish there were bras for flat chests, post-mastectomy without reconstruction.
All the bras out there for people post-mastectomy have pockets for inserts, none of them are completely flat.
Not everyone wants to pretend they have beasts that they lost so they can look and feel cute.
Some people have accepted their bodies and are happy being flat, and want cute bras that are flat and have no extra fabric in the cups that remind them of what they don’t have.
Flat chested women exist, whether they’re women who are post-mastectomy or transgender women or women who are simply not busty, and there should be bras for them that aren’t made to accommodate padding and chicken cutlets and breast forms.
26
@L. Brown Here are some companies that might fit well: 3 websites in the UK, which specialize in bras for women with smaller busts: Little Women, Dainty Lady and Know Knockers. Lula Lu, is American. And Pepper https://www.wearpepper.com/?utm_source=Advertisement&utm_medium=GoogleAds&utm_campaign=GoogleAds&utm_content=GoogleAds&utm_keyword=%2Bbra%20%2Bflat%20%2Bchested&utm_matchtype=b&gclid=Cj0KCQiA0ZHwBRCRARIsAK0Tr-qIeiycXl6OCie8wMNRrGntRTEQ_CMYo1vii6aaBnPlPCJNxvAOeIEaAojXEALw_wcB
13
Not only do most “mainstream” bra lines top out in the D area, but band sizes go up only to 38 or 40. Why do we allow ourselves to be treated this way?
43
So ladies when are we going to organize bra tours to Poland?
Where in the DC area can one find a fitter?
I have waisted so much on ugly, uncomfortable bras that $100 seem great if it fits.
Please tell us how we can get such a wonderful thing!
45
Try Underwraps in Bethesda. Call ahead to make sure Shirley will be in the store when you go.
5
@Thelma there was also a small shop in Silver Spring for many years. I’m not sure if it’s still there, but you can google it
2
@Thelma sorry for derivating from the topic, but how much cost a decent bra in the US?
I worked for Victoria’s Secret as a side job in LA when it was just a small San Francisco-based chain of six stores. In those days, craftsmanship and quality were celebrated and carrying European brands was the norm.
Then it was bought by a man, the corporate machinery brought in, and absolutely everything changed. Now that I’ve had the immense satisfaction of seeing the ridiculous “angels” made-for-TV soft porn show killed and labeled as wildly out-of-touch with women, I can’t help but wonder if it was instead bought by a woman who actually worked in the store and was in touch with the seemingly more expensive European brands and their customers. Bras are engineering solutions for a uniquely female issue, not vessels for fickle fantasy.
I know it was conceived as a store where a man could comfortably shop for lingerie for their wives but in the end, it was women who ran the stores and actually did the bulk of the shopping in them. Before the corporate takeover, the philosophy was that if a man was in the store shopping, even he would want quality and comfort as well as beauty for the woman he loved. Instead of a typically American man’s idea of what women want and, worse, how to make it so cheap and thoughtlessly as to extract maximum profit, it could have actually become what ultimately doomed it.
63
I have dreamt of a trip to Poland for decades. Now, I have a good excuse for my wife. :)
17
I own two lingerie stores in Moscow, Russia that offer professional bra-fitting (in Russian the word is hyphenated) services. We have served more than 30,000 women over the past 5 years, and many Russian women living abroad come to visit us on their trips to Russia as they have difficulties finding bras that fit in the countries where they live.
We stock Ewa Michalak, Corin, Avocado, Kinga and many other great Polish brands. I personally visit Poland no less than twice a year to develop existing relationships and find new jewels among local manufacturers. I even took a year of Polish lessons to be able to read and understand local professional publications and blogs — luckily, Polish is also a Slavic language and is fairly easy to learn for a native Russian speaker.
While Poland is not the only country that is home to designers and manufacturers of great fitting bras (I do have a number of niche US brands in my portfolio too!), it is undoubtedly a powerhouse in D+ cup lingerie and hope it will continue this way.
60
38D here! DKNY Balconette. Its a neat fit and sexy. The best bras have structured, amost architectural seams going down the front and around the sides of the cups. And strong, not necessarily wide, straps, also good side coverage. I prefer mine to look perky, almost pointy, instead of the now most predominant one: all around round; in otherwords, two mounds sitting on your chest. As for Victoria’s Secret bras, I bought a ton of them at one time, for the cleavage (I live in Vegas so it works here, lol.) They are NOT flimsy. Its like wearing a plush super-couch on your chest and they last forever, at least the padded ones do. But once again, they are too round for me. I prefer definition. As for sizing: you needn’t fly to Poland. Try it on. If it feels good, looks good, and offers a pleasing coverage, that’s your size.
4
@CutZy McCall If you like that super projected out in front shape you really should take a look at the ABraThatFits calculator to orient yourself to ex-US sizing and then check out some Polish bras. Ewa Michalak’s CH fit is worth investigating. It’s not hard to order to the US.
4
Another option for women with extremely large breasts that cause/contribute to chronic pain or limit one's ability to exercise is breast reduction surgery. If it's for a medical - not a cosmetic - indication (i.e. chronic back aches, shoulder aches, neck strain, headaches), it will probably be covered by insurance.
11
What is even more frustrating is to find swimwear with a bra that fits,
29
@S. I buy Chantelle swimsuits; they're pricy but the fit is wonderful.
7
As much as I want a bra with cups that fit me correctly, I would kill for one engineered with straps won't slip.
69
@Citizen R wacoal basic beauty and elomi amelia
4
@Citizen R oh my god, ME TOO!
3
Tried racer-back bras? Or convertible to x straps? No slippage.
4
Hearing about what women will go through, and pay, to find a bra that fits, I feel lucky that because of my tiny breasts, I haven't worn a bra since I was in my early thirties. Camisoles are a much easier fit, and much cheaper! There's a lot to be said for being "flat-chested".
21
@Claudia
yay you
6
Any suggestions in Washington, DC of where to purchase a Polish made bra??
5
Great story in a long journey for women's equality and quality of life. And it's also the story of an artform for the body and the artists who bring it to life, like the tattoo.
10
There is a huge, unaddressed market - the after breast cancer surgery one. Drs. told me and other women, "Get a camisole. Get a sports bra." I wasted lots of money on bras declared "insufficient support" or which I could tolerate 2 hrs max. In combing the web, I found I was not alone. Nine months post lumpectomy, my scars still flare up, the skin tires, bras won't stay in place, there is irritation.
When I was busty, I couldn't find supportive, non-underwire bras (much healthier, altho bra industry denies it). Never heard of anything to address the fact that few of us are made equally on both sides.
Thank you so much for this article. Maybe there is Bra After Surgery!
29
@Dustin Mackie try Royce Lingerie. They produce only wirefree bras since many years and have caress line especially for women like you
7
I'm not wealthy, but I'd gladly spend $100 on a bra that fit right and didn't pinch. Any suggestions for a bra-fitting store in eastern Massachusetts?
33
@Susan
I highly recommend you ask over on the A Bra That Fits subreddit (the link has been posted several times already).
3
@Susan Go see the ladies at Lady Grace in Woburn (near the Super Target). These ladies know their product and how to get a great fit!!!
5
@Susan Depending on how far away it is for you, Ruth's Lingerie in Cranston, RI, may be worth a trip. They carry Elomi and Panache, and the salesladies know their products. They had me bend over with my breasts hanging as described in this article, not for measuring, but for fitting the bra correctly. If anyone reading this is looking for post-mastectomy bras, I think they cover this area as well.
10
As a bra fitter in a small town in Southern Vermont, I can assure women that those of us who have small bra boutiques are happy to find the right bra for just about every body. There are stores that carry sizes beyond what the mass-market retailers carry in every state. A well-fitting bra is not 'fast-fashion'; it is a highly technical garment with many pieces. It will cost more, but like a nice pair of shoes, it shouldn't pinch or hurt. Small retailers like me are hoping that by providing a useful service we will still be standing as more and more people shop online.
390
@JRI Please tell is where you are!
39
@JRI Tell me where you are. I’ll come!
23
I've always wanted to have a bra that fits plus I've always wanted to visit Vermont. Can you tell us where in Vermont you sell bras?
40
I suffered until I found Shen’s in NYC which was highlighted in a NYT story about Tracey Ullman.
4
Just in time. Edith Lances bras appears to be going out of business. The one bra in the US that had a great fit. Will consider a trip to Poland.
5
Decent, sexy and durable bras have always been made, but in the US Victoria's Secret used massive advertising to make buyers overlook the flimsiness of their goods, they somehow established themselves as the non plus ultra, totally weird if you understand anything about sewing. You need not go to Poland to find a decent bra, just stay away from American ones. That does not solve the sub-optimal fit problem, but at least they will last longer than one year. The sub-optimal fit problem will be solved next decade by technology as custom-fit printable bras. So there is a silver lining on the horizon.
127
@Lala not all american bras are bad:) Wacoal is very good for small and middle size range. It depends what model and what kind of breasts. Godess ist not bad either. For medium and big cups.
Of course polish bras are really good. I have to admit it. Not only cause I come from Poland;) Ewa Michalak, Nessa, Krisline for instance.
It simply depends what you need. There are also many great british brands like Panache, Freya, Fantasie,Elomi.
Royce if you like only wirefree.
Ulla Dessous from Germany
49
@Lala
Yes, I worked for VS in the early 80s, before the corporate takeover. Imagine if all that marketing money went into bra R&D instead.
74
In 40 years of wearing them, I always found all bras uncomfortable, even wireless ones. Eventually I developed a persistent skin reaction to the elastic in the bands. At that point, I switched to form-fitting camisoles that have some spandex for stretch and for the first time since puberty, I'm finally comfortable. Women with small to medium-sized breasts who can't find comfortable bras may want to try this alternative.
Keep in mind that the extremely body-constricting garment we know as a bra was only invented about 100 years ago and has only been considered a required part of women's clothing since the mid-20th century. For most of human history, women wore far less constricting garments over their breasts. There's no reason we can't do the same now.
29
As a generally small breasted woman I understand where you’re coming from.
However, I breastfed all 3 of my kids for 12-18 months, during which time my breast size was, quite frankly, enormous. One of the things I learnt that as a small breasted woman I hadn’t really understood is that when you have large breasts you absolutely NEED good quality and well fitted support. Large breasts are extremely heavy, bulky and moveable and they require support to stop pain and discomfort, both in the breasts themselves but also for the back, shoulders and neck. It’s not possible to get that from the kind of garment you describe.
75
@Nelle Engoron - The reason that bras were invented about 100 years ago is that the corset, which used to support the breasts, had evolved into a garment that extended only a bit above the waist, becoming what we would now consider a girdle. For several hundred yeas prior to that, the corset or stays were the foundation garment of choice. Not a bra, of course, but hardly non constricting!
30
@TM That's why I specified "small to medium-sized" breasts when suggesting women try this. I was trying to get ahead of comments like yours. I do get that not every solution works for every woman. That includes bras, which don't work for some of us.
9
I will bet that this becomes the most emailed Times article ever. I've already sent it to the three most important women in my life. ;-}
80
Each one is lucky to have you in her life.
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Terrific story. So true. I’ve found it tough going to find a decent, comfortable bra. Here’s one I discovered some years ago — and have never looked back: the “Un-Bra” at Decent Exposures in Seattle.
There are lots of ways to customize this bra to one’s needs. Sizes go up to L, according to the Decent Exposures website.
Heads up: these bras aren’t particularly beautiful on the surface — and there’s no underwire, so they may not be for women who need that kind of extra support.
But, these bras are practical, durable, incredibly comfortable and stay in place. Bra-va! UU
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@Jules I renounced underwire after one burst out and scratched my neck during a work meeting! Never again and I am much more comfortable in my Playtex Women's 18 Hour Seamless Smoothing Bra #4049,42B!
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The "supporting" photography is so good. I must admit to have skimmed the article but give 5 stars kudos to Anna Liminowicz!
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Thank you for elucidating this corner of the world! Humans with breasts need this important information and the no shame approach of your article is refreshing!
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I would like to have seen before and after pictures over a range of several body sizes and shapes but otherwise from an engineering perspective, this article would seem to me to be very helpful. Over my 75 years I have heard a host of comments from women concerning their bras not fitting. My next project is to find out how to make a proper measurement and measure my wife.
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@George Schwartze The Reddit article has the calculator or you can use this link: https://www.abrathatfits.org/calculator.php
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@George Schwartze Now you're asking? After 75 years you're asking now ???
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Chicago has a huge Polish community. Surely someone is importing these here and if not, someone needs to start!
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Wellfitting seems to be closing down - no explaination why.
1
Seems like a great opportunity for someone to build a business in the US. There’s gold in them thar hills!
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What about bras for those of us who were pregnant, are currently nursing a baby (1.5 years and counting), can't wear underwire, and have breasts that change size throughout the day? Do the Poles have a nice solution for us?
Even women not in the maternity stages have breasts whose size shifts on a monthly basis. Do the Polish bras fit well all month?
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@cs Sure, Polish companies have bras designed specifically for breastfeeding. They have quick-release buttons, so you can easily feed without undressing a bra.
For example (Ewa Michalak): https://www.ewa-michalak.pl/eng_m_NURSING-BRAS-154.html
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It is a significant problem for many women. You can usually find bra shops in a lot of American cities who know what they are doing and who stock European bras. You don't have to go to Poland. For the Portland OR area? Try the Pencil Test.
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@Elex Tenney, there is also a Pencil Test in Renton, WA. GREAT staff; don't know specificially if they carry Polish-made bras.
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My visiting adult daughters shouted "girls trip" when I read aloud from this article.
Maybe Poland next fall?
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@Dee You will love the trip. Poland is a beautiful country and the people are delightful. I wish more people would visit the country. I am not polish, just someone who loves travel, music and kind people.
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@Dee I think it might be possible to charter an airliner for this. So many of us would want to join you.
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meh..when is american society going to admit that older women have bigger and bigger boobs the longer they live, (are they therefor sexier and sexier, by american body -standards?) and I would love to get the medical establishment make a connection between big boobs and back pain - they won't do it!!
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@grace thorsen : Fwiw, in the 1980s, a friend of mine (then in her 20s) had breast-reduction surgery, and her male, 60-something surgeon did make the connection between her breast size and her back pain.
If your physician doesn't get it, perhaps find another one.
Also, I'm not aware of breast growth as a side-effect of aging. Of weight gain, yes. ?
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@grace thorsen
Meh....As an older women with small boobs I can affirm that they don't get bigger with age. The advantage of having small boob when young is that they don't hang all the way to the waist when getting older.
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@grace thorsen I'd say it's time you visit the doctor again then. B/c many - MANY! - of my friends (I'm turning 50 next year) have had breast reduction surgery paid for by their insurance from their 20s right through last month.
And all are - as you expect - significantly happier.
Now, I'd like to get back to the idea of having quality bras available in the US.....
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I know what I'll be shopping for next time I'm in Poland...
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Kudos to Anna Liminowicz and the photo editor for making and choosing the great shot with the nun is the background.
I wonder if they were making a statement here as this photo does not depict the reality in Poland, but rather the ideal for a ever growing minority, which is to be a country with no tension between religious and socially liberal values.
Spain, Italy and Greece are perfect examples of this.
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@Steven : Spain and Italy are pretty misogynistic nations -- you might want to read about recent notorious rape cases in Spain, or the treatment of women in the Italian parliament. (I know too little about Greece to comment.
What, exactly, is your idea of "socially liberal values"? I would hope they'd include treating women with as much dignity as men, ensuring that women have the full range of rights enjoyed by men.
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@Steven
Only a guy would wonder if a nun shopping for bras is a political statement.
Women have breasts that need support. Bras offer that support. Nuns are women. Therefore, nuns need bras. It’s no more complicated than that.
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@left coast finch
A number of years ago, I was walking past Victoria's Secret in the mall and saw a couple of nuns at the checkout. I told a Catholic friend of mine about it, and she gasped in mock horror and said "I hope they weren't Carmelites." Not quite sure what she meant, but I thought it was funny.
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Thank you so much for this article!
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While it may seem impossible to take a quick jaunt over to Poland there is a solution for women here in the US. It will cost you money but there is nothing more comfortable than a European-made bra. Brands like Prima Donna are unlike anything you have ever worn and can be found in most major cities and even in Nordstrom's!
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@Millburn Cook Thank you. So I searched for a PrimaDonna source near me. I live about an hour from the Canadian border, and guess what? Five outlets, all in British Columbia. This is an international shopping trip I can manage.
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@Millburn Cook Thank you. So I searched for a PrimaDonna source near me. I live about an hour from the Canadian border, and guess what? Five outlets, all in British Columbia. This is an international shopping trip I can manage.
But oh dear. The prices are breathtaking. I've never paid over $100 for a bra. $155? $186? Yikes.
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@Kristi : I don't know how Wacoal bras (Japanese co.) compare to PrimaDonnas, but they're not as expensive and they fit well; I was clued in by a friend's wealthy stepmother, a European woman who finds the best-quality everything that she can.
I can't buy 'em anymore (medical debt) but
would if I could. Perhaps check 'em out?
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Was not expecting to see a nun in a picture from a bra show...juxtaposed with the hostess carrying the hors d'oeuvres it is a curious photo
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@Jeremy
Nuns wear bras too!
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@Jeremy Caught my attention, too. And made this even a better article.
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@Jeremy - Did you think women wear bras only to appeal to men? Sorry to burst your bubble, but they wear them to be comfortable. Hence, a nun would need a bra just like any other woman.
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This really stood out as both a hugely important problem and potentially a big business opportunity.
'...many women wear bras every day, considering them in any depth can reveal subtle injustices of the market. The market determines which bodies are normal, and by extension, who is deserving of clothes that fit.'
Society is moving beyond an idea of 'one-size-fits-all' towards something altogether more personal. It is time for companies to also make the change. Our products and services could be so much better IF this approach is taken.
"I didn’t find one perfect bra in Poland, but I left with five new ones that help me stand a bit taller."
Don't we all want to stand a bit taller in 2020?
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I’m so happy soon to be going to Poland - thanks for the name brands - and it’s not only the big but the small once which are the problem- I hope they will solve it too; just aside of bras - it would be nice if nytimes were able to put proper characters in town names Łódź versus Lodz ....
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@Polka well how will you read the text when they do that for Thai or Chinese or some other alphabet - Americanized it is.
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@Polka I'd be happy if they'd just restore the proper upper-casing of acronyms.
1
For years I’d been expertly fitted by a woman at Nordstrom. When she retired, and after surgery, I found a small shop in a nearby town. Because of some scarring, I haven’t been able to find a
good fitting bra that I don’t want to rip off upon coming home. (TMI?) Where is the calculator? Thank you.
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@Molly Bloom https://www.abrathatfits.org/calculator.php
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@Molly Bloom The calculator linked below is great, but keep in mind that numbers don't always tell the whole story, so the size it gives you is more of a starting point. I also really recommend reading through the Beginner's Guide on that same subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/ABraThatFits/wiki/beginners_guide. It's a lot to take in at once, but super helpful!
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@Shana I just used the calculator and it gave me a dd size... lol... even a d comes to the pit of my arms and wrinkles in the front.
2
And, where do we find these in the USA?
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@Heysus
The fitting is at least as important as the bra...if you are near nyc head to Town Shop on the UWS...there’s another great bra store on orchard st too. The bra companies even go to Town Shop to test fit new styles on real women.
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@Heysus Greenpoint in Brooklyn would be my best suggestion.
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@37Rubydog
Hmm, wrong side of the US. I'm in Seattle, WA. Thank you anyway.
12
Field trip!
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Leave it to the men to turn a piece about bras about boxer shorts and socks!
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What a great business opportunity for young women taking a look at starting a business?
Finding quality fabrics in the US is a problem, but creating an undergarment that fits for yourself, your relatives and friends could be the start of a sustainable home-based small business.
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Euro bra shop tours on the horizon?
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I am glad to see that Poland is moving forward. It is... pun intended... uplifting.
But until a bit more time passes, even with an article that acknowledges there are "more important things to be concerned with than underwear", it still brings back other issues and times, particularly during WWII.
Not really anything to do about this. It will fade as the generations pass, though hopefully not at the expense of remembering the past.
Until then, I guess, good luck to residents, merchants, and buyers, may it all be fitting.
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@AW
I’m not sure how bar fittings and an interesting article on a niche industry in an economically thriving country that doesn’t frequently appear on the pages on the Times necessitates a reference to WWII. That’s like expecting any culture or travel article to reference the many dark times the United States has faced and continues to face. People certainly remember the atrocities of the war but the ability to marvel at the nuances of bra fittings just shows how much the country has been rebuilt. Doing so should not be a luxury just for Western Europe or the US
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@AW : I lost family in the Holocaust, and as a result I'm not keen on visiting Germany. But I'm very pleased by how much progress Germany has made since 1945, and articles highlighting that don't (for me) erase WWII atrocities. We can't hope for nations to progress if we don't make room for that growth.
Admittedly, Poland is a very different case -- its prickliness about references to its role in the Holocaust is troubling, to say the least; what *would* be a way to proceed, do you think? I'm not being nasty -- rather, I'm genuinely curious. How do we make room for a country to grow/change while also being wary of its past?
I wonder whether the article *could* have done a better job of touching on the anti-Semitism of the past and present, given that it referred to the now-trendy Jewish quarter.
11
@AW - WWII ended over 70 years ago. The vast majority of bra wearers in Poland were born well after that. Certainly, bad times in a country can have a long lasting impact, but really now...
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What makes a bra "best"? That's up to the wearer.
For me, I need something I can actually breathe in. Meaning, take deep, rib-moving breaths.
28
Comfort and fit are clearly very important, but I find it difficult to understand all the time, effort and money spent on prettiness and style. I mean, really, who is going to see the thing? And they will likely be concentrating on pulling the thing open, not admiring it.
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@Chuck Burton uh? The person who has to wear it, and carry the weight around on her chest all day.
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“Like wearing a ten pound necklace-“
my dr said.
You try that, Bud.
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Sigh. It’s not for you. It’s for us.
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Extremely difficult to find men's boxer shorts that 1. are all cotton, and 2 actually fit. Same can be said for men's socks. Just saying.
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@Cherish animals Jockey used to make great 100% cotton boxer briefs but everything now has “stretch” aka “stench”
6
Try tommyjohn.com.
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@Cherish animals That's the real "subtle injustice of the market." Am I right, fellas? Burn the boxers!
1
"the Rack Shack"
What a name for a bra store.
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And what about those of use who are over 70 and still require a nearly A or A cup? In Wisconsin, they are practially special order.
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If you wear an A cup, get an undershirt.
No need for a bra.
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@Sara My wife says she would wear a lightweight undershirt in lieu of a bra.
12
There are many pretty, soft and comfortable bralettes on the market right now. Look for that category at an online lingerie shop like Nordstrom’s. Might be a perfect solution for you.
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