In France, Dying at Home Can Mean a Long Wait for a Doctor

Good luck finding doctors in rural parts of USA . It’s no different

@Roy P The article makes clear that part of the problem is 1) France does not allow coroners, nurses, or other professionals to certify a death, as happens in the United States; and 2) strong historic tradition that certification can be done only by a doctor. True, the lack of doctors in rural areas makes the problem worse.

@Lisa And apparently they aren't allowed to move the body to a cold place, but leave it rotting. If MD's must certify, then allow transport to them if they won't/can't travel to the place of death, at least in cases of expected death. The police ought to determine if there are suspicious circumstances.

Doctors in France don’t need to make 6 figures salary as they don’t have to reimburse student loans

That has not been my experience with family members who have died at home. The cops come, the medical examiner comes (often hours later), then one telephones the funeral home to remove the body -- and only then do the cops leave. Sometimes a second shift of cops takes the place of the first when the medical examiner can't come right away.

@B. My neighbor died at home a few days ago. The fire department and police came and moved his body to the living room floor, where it lay, uncovered, for about 4 hours.

@B. My wife’s brother, who lived in Brooklyn, died there about two years ago. His wife’s experience was just as you described it.

@Bob R , yeah, France has that too.

@Jack And this is after limiting the number of doctors for decades, which is how France got into their situation of not enough doctors. Governments on the left and right both thought they could limit demand for medical services by limiting the offer of personnel. There is also a shortage of nurses and other professionals.

@Jack No different from the US, where the government basically controls the number of medical residencies, thereby effectively controlling the number of students.

@Caligirl The US government limits the government's funding of residencies. The hospitals fund the rest. There is no limit on residencies in the US.

@CA In fact, at least half of medical students, and of younger doctors are women. In the generation shown in the picture, there were fewer women doctors.

@nestor. And hobbling the country with ever-expanding state control while bankrupting it with unaffordable socialist entitlements, what is that if not war on the whole economy?

@B. Catholics couldn’t wait until they got into heaven. They committed suicide. They wanted to go to heaven where there was no pain or ill and they were wonderful. So ancient people actually committed suicide to get to heaven. Augustine and I guess later you can call him a pope realized no people and no cash gifts. Augustine then, Declared it a mortal sin to commit suicide.

I think you’d prefer the younger attending. He/she likely is more up to date on the latest medical knowledge and technology.

@Frbenoit In The United States a RN/NP can pronounce a person as dead over the phone to a physician. The nurse can call a funeral home and arrange for transport. This is only true in the case of an expected death, where there has been documentation form a physician that the expected outcome is death. Only a physician can certify a case of death. Since most people are dying in hospice programs, it is fortunate that hospice programs send out nurses promptly. Not all cultures whisk away the body. I once had an asian woman who asked if she could keep the body at home for an extra 24 hours before she had to part with her dear husband. I think she slept beside the body that night before she had the funeral parlor come. Hospice programs are there to support the family's wishes.

The ability to pronounce someone dead and this to sign a death certificate is governed by state law, not federal law. Physician assistants can sign death certificates in NYS. France should permit PAs to practice there. It would be one way to solve this significant problem.

@Robert Scull The inherent conflict is between solidarity and greed. The rich refuse to subsidize the poor. So far the poor have been duped into voting for the likes of , for example, Trump. It will not last forever.

@Robert Scull There areb probably few, if any, places where doctors are assigned to where they are most needed. But there can be, and are, incentives to draw doctors to underserved areas. Such as tuition forgiveness and housing subsidies.

@philly In fact all health services in Europe are under enormous pressure with so many older folks like me. Even in Germany if you live in a small town in the provinces there are problems getting instant access to a doctor or hospital. The situation in Britain at breaking point because there is no charge for an appointment with a doctor. The NHS is a bottomless pit....more and more will not stop the rot. Rationing in the NHS is now their modus operandi with longer waiting lists as proof. NHS employs 1,4 million people as the 5th largest employer in the world.

@Simon Cardew It's not because there are so many old people - it's because their governments, like the USA, have failed to plan for them. They built schools and universities for the baby boomers, but now they say we don't have enough money to take care of them decently in their old age. The British system is breaking down because it has been defunded for years, little by little, pretending it wasn't happening, and if it was, it's the fault of the patients and medical personnel. The rich have private insurance in the UK. In France the parties in government, left or right, have pretended that by limiting the budget and the number of doctors, they could limit demand for medical services. This has all been a political choice. The figures have been known since the 70's but it was never a good political moment to plan and invest for it. At least the boomers had a good run, but I do feel sorry for our children and grandchildren.

@philly AS a 60 year old who has had to call on the NHS a couple of times this year alone (including an A&E after a cycling head collision in Sept) I can report that it is, in my experience still an amazing service that is free at the point of delivery. In fact I haven't paid anything into it since retiring 7 years ago, which I do actually feel guilty about, and I've been getting all 3 types of drugs for my Blood Pressure control for FREE since turning 60 last Feb. So it's not a genuine shambles that you suggest but it is certainly is under pressure in certain areas and in certain sections (it can be a Post Code Lottery sadly...) and that is simply due to well over 10/12 years of underfunding by the Tory Government which like every other Government thought nothing of spending far more in 08 to bail out the those A Holes in Investment Banking that played Roulette with Billions... France, like the UK, has opted to reduce funding over the years but has the added challenge in that although it has the same population it has 2.5 times the land mass of the UK and a large rural population in comparison. With the French lifestyle resulting in longer lives that the Brits this is also stressing out the system. The good news is that the French populace, like I believe the British, ever the Universal Health Service as a basic National right and will fight for it to the death if needs be.

@n1789 "Poorly served" is an understatement. Richly exploited and constantly thrown under the bus would be better descriptions.

@cynthia It should not be. There should be enough medical care available everywhere. Rather than bringing down the climate with more useless gizmos, all countries must invest in better health care.

@arvay Exactly correct. If it is easier and quicker to obtain a death certificate in the U.S. it is probably because the extremely profitable funeral industry makes certain of that somehow.

@Pat No, it's because it doesn't have to be certified by a physician here, it can be certified by a nurse or other medical professional. The gist of the article wasn't about the French healthcare system - it was about declines in rural areas accompanied by a law that makes it so that only doctors can certify a death.

@Pat No, It's because the US allows morticians, nurses and pathologists to determine if someone is dead. All people who are very qualified to tell if someone is dead or just faking it.