So BoJo wants an “agile, economically open, lightly regulated” Britain? Meaning overnight prosperity as the West’s “financial capital,” i.e. money laundering, tax haven, dodgy developments etc. Clever!
If it worked for the Cayman Islands (pop. 65,000) why shouldn’t it work for Britain (pop. 68 million?) Will come as a surprise, though, to those disenchanted ex-Labourites who voted for a return to the good old days of mining and manufacturing jobs. And will go down singing Rule Britannia while the BoJo Cons are laughing all the way to the (unregulated) bank.
4
This article is right on. The Conservative party has been lent the Labour vote just as Trump was lent the working man's vote in the last US election. The US economy has done well under Trump so far. The Democratic party candidates who propose free everything for everyone as Labour did in the UK should take note that working people are not fools. Free everything for everyone will not work here just as it has now failed in the UK. The Democratic party may want to spin the results but the bottom line is clear. Those Democratic party candidates who believe they can buy working peoples votes in the general election are wrong.
Perhaps our GOP members of Congress can learn something from the UK election. The English are basically honest, ethical, caring people. I'm convinced that Boris Johnson distancing himself from Trump over the past few months made a huge difference in his support on Thursday. We've seen the stench of Trump result in victories for the Democrats in 2018 and in several special elections this year. It's not too late to let the voters in your states and districts know that you don't condone the damage Trump is doing to our Constitution, our allies, and most importantly, America.
1
Boris Johnson is an American organizing the economic war (and political war ) of the USA against Europe from London.
1
Having a credible and loyal opposition is one of the essential checks and balances of our democracies. In the UK, Jeremy Corbyn’s unpopularity and the Labour Party’s shift to extreme leftist policies counted them out for even lifelong Labour voters. It has allowed Boris Johnson to thrive with a populist platform in the same way that disarray among the democrats in the US has further enabled Trump by appearing as a disorganized and chaotic alternative. Living in the USA, I find it astonishing that in between election cycles our opposition political parties have very little true leadership or a recognized manifesto, with the emergence of a presidential candidate seeming to rally the party around a new set of promises and personalities each time. There is certainly no concept of the consistent leader of an opposition with a cohesive party message that can be held up as an alternative waiting in the wings, one that can keep the President’s feet to the fire. It seems we have to wait for a leader to emerge each time from those brave, or foolish, enough to have their dirty laundry aired.
Johnson can do what Trump does regarding Brexit and likely everything else, just lie and people will believe him.
1
The situation in England now is really, I think, analogous to what happened in the US in 2016 when Trump was elected. Many blue collar workers, unhappy with their lives, abandoned the Democrats. And look what has happed to us. Scotland and Northland Ireland would do well to leave .
3
Once upon a time, there was the British Empire, ruling more than half the world. It was a time when the British would give orders to the former colonies or dominions. Then, all that changed, leaving behind legacies, which most locations are still struggling to get out from.
This election is all a rush. Not allowing the constituents to go through the education and understand what the politicians are saying and assuring the electorate. There is much rhetoric, promising the people to revive old lost pride. Two reasons to name. To stop immigration, and to not take orders from Brussels. To continue the argument that to stay in the EU, does no good to the people and country. Great Britain used to encourage others in the benefit of being part of Associations and Groups. It is unclear why politicians see it differently, today.
This election may also push Scotland and Northern Ireland to leave the Union. At the end, Great Britain or the UK, may end up becoming a LIttle England, and preparing for a re-entry into the EU or a similar Association in the future. People will soon realize, what this election and a Brexit gave them.
4
Goodbye Great Britain! Today you are about 2% of what made up the British Empire 150 years ago and things are only going to get worse. Scotland, realizing that it will be better economically for them, will leave Great Britain and become its own nation and will remain linked to the European Union. Once this happens what will follow is Northern Ireland also leaving in order to retain their economic links to both Ireland and the EU. Finally, after that happens Wales will declare its right to independence and will do the same. Then, Great Britain will be no more as only the country of England will remain and look at how small it will become by physical size, population size and economic/military size. Goodbyes will then also have to be made to their royalty as even their illusion of grandeur will have to be buried. Very sad indeed.
3
I have a question based on this sentence in the article: “Indeed, parties that either oppose Brexit or want to rethink Britain’s departure won 52 percent of the total votes cast, while the Conservatives and other pro-Brexit parties won only 46 percent.”
Then add an explanation how the Boris et al achieved an overwhelming parliamentary majority. Is this similar to Trump’s achieving an Electoral College majority but losing the total votes cast in the U.S?
5
To paraphrase what has been said about the U S: you can always count on the British to do the right thing, after exhausting all other possibilities. I dare say we both are still exhausting the options before reality weighs in, as it ultimately will.
2
I just can’t get my head around why people vote for a party that does not have their best interests at heart. I feel so removed from those votes, I don’t understand what is happening in their heads (and hearts)
I find this worrying that I cannot understand anymore what my neighbors, my colleagues and probably my own family thinks.
How can a society survives and thrives when we seem to live in such different realities?
Where can I learn more about their point of view? I’m not talking about Breitbart or other extreme news outlets - I am more interested in the middle ground, addressing why voters would risk so much voting for a Conservative leader.
3
Boris Johnson has united Britain and he can now negotiate Brexit from a position of strength. Parliament will no longer weaken Boris and let there be no doubt that it will be on fair terms that will make Britain great again and some of us who had stopped referring to Britian as great Britain will consider resuming calling Britain Great Britain.
Democracies in the world are at their best and in a vibrant state. The worlds greatest democracy, USA is great again with the checks and balances as strong as ever even though to too partisan. The world's largest democracy , India has not seen the level of stability today since 1971 and the world's oldest democracy is great again and will shape its destiny decisively from the new year. France could move to the extreme right if Macron becomes a micron and keeps futzing around and Le Pen wins. Thums up for Democracies and free enterprise.
11
I’m not sure what reality you are living in. The checks and balances in the USA are being eroded every day. Never has democracy been in more danger here.
26
@Girish Kotwal
Genuinely unsure if this is an ironic post? If it's not, I'd like a sip of whatever you're drinking, please.
12
Shades of Margaret Thatcher with the people getting hurt via the starvation route.
3
This positive for democracy seems to have stimulated a lot of left-wing comments.
2
@David As we all know the Left is undemocratic.
It is the capitalist ploutocratie that represents best democracy . Trump an Johnson are the leaders of freedom .
You got trump.
We got johnson.
As they say, pot, kettle black.
Im applying for Canadian citizenship...
6
Brexit without having first an agreement, was putting the cart before the horse.
But since the UK people have voted for Brexit, without any prior agreement, let them leave without it.
After all, it would be most interesting, even as an experiment for the whole world to watch, to see whether protectionism and isolationism are or are not a bad thing;
Hourrah for these new policy explorers. Give them a chance.
Let's see if they discover any new economic and social new grounds, or end up eaten by cannibals...
3
Boris Johnson will go down in history as the first initiator of the undoing of the UK: His victory speech of seemingly wanting to unite England again sounds kind hollow to me, himself being such an inveterate liar. The SNP has a golden opportunity to finally declare independence; Johnson's victory was kind of expected but the real winner is no-Brexit-no-Johnson Nicola Sturgeon. A new Scottish referendum looms large, and Scotland is going to be a brand new nation like Ireland trading with economically friendly EU. Scots deserve it.
7
Those who support remaining in the EU, always fall back on the Leave Referendum Campaign during the year before and just refuse to accept many British people have wanted to Leave the EU for decades.
As politicians signed away our sovereignty bit bit, to be ruled by politicians we have not voted for and cannot remove, then we became angrier and angrier.
With even plans for sending our military to be ruled by Brussels, heaven help us.
It is about our Sovereignty. We want out, without interference and rule by bureaucrats in the EU.
On another matter, the EU made a film about the negotiations between the EU and UK, designed to be shown after we left, but as our departure was delayed the film appeared on television.
The leaders were laughing at the UK becoming a Vassal State!
As for trade. We only export to six EU countries and we export more to the USA than to France and Germany combined.
We buy far more from the EU than they buy from us, we have a huge trade deficit with the EU, so if they want to mess up their exports to the UK, that would be very foolish!
In the end we will still be friends with the european people, we just do not want rule by the EU!
3
Most readers of the NY Times are dismayed that anyone would want to leave such a great organisation as the E.U.
Would the U.S. sign up to a free trade organisation that requires open borders with and including unlimited immigration from any countries that are a member? Would the U.S. sign up to an organisation whose laws supercede their own?
If the U.S. wouldn't do these things, should you expect that another country would want to follow that path?
5
Sounds like the GOP voters’ contradiction - who want protectionism from an uber-capitalist, free trade party.
1
Now comes the difficult part. How to hold on to Scotland in the union, and with a chaotic post Brexit, even Northern Ireland will start talking about a reverse Brexit. England will now become the isolated little island they were before their glorious past, when others, like the Vikings, Saxons and Normans raided with impunity. Who will the invaders be this time? Trump's predatory USA? Xi's China global economic empire? Putin's Russian shadowy billionaires club?
6
Scottish secession would imply that they expect to do more trade with the EU than with England. Is that the case today? And/or, that they expect more revenue - subsidies, etc - from the EU than from England. Is that the case today?
4
It will be interesting to see how Johnson now deals with Scotland & the SNP's wish for a second independence referendum.
It is being argued that Scotland voted to remain a part of the UK in the first independence referendum in 2014.
What is not being addressed in that argument is that there was no indication that the UK would be leaving the UK.
In the EU referendum Scotland voted 62% remain, 38% leave.
In this general election the SNP won 48 out of the 59 seats
available in Scotland. It was, & is, committed to remaining in the EU.
In the 2014 independence referendum I voted for Scotland to remain within the UK.
For the first time I voted SNP in the general election. I know many people who did the same.
I suspect that Johnson thinks a second independence referendum will result in a vote for independence & he will resist it to the fullest extent possible.
The question then is, where does that leave me & all the others who voted SNP & who wish to remain in the EU?
6
Labour voters did not support Johnson; they withheld their vote for Corbyn. Simply, Labour voters stayed home while Conservatives were energized. Hillary should remind Dems that getting supporters enthused is essential for victory.
3
The democratic dilemma - how can a "smashing" victory be reconciled with winning less than a majority of the popular vote? Another very real dilemma - how can an election be about only one thing, e.g. Brexit, when other factors are clearly involved? Do these very real considerations muddy the results and "inform" the future?
@Andrew Hall
When you have around fifteen political parties standing, there will always appear an imbalance between what you see as the popular vote and the winner, but only if you lump all the other fourteen parties together as one "Popular" vote.
We vote for an MP, it is not for a President or Prime Minister and In truth, the vote for Conservative MP's was a landslide!
This article misses the most important aspect of Brexit and the Johnson victory. The British people have won back their democracy and sovereignty which was slowly taken away from them by treaties with the EU, ratified by Parliament without binding people's votes. The UK can now make its own laws, not have its courts overruled by the European Court of Justice, effectuate its own agricultural policies, reclaim its own territorial waters and fishing rights, control its own borders, etc. The UK will also escape the coming EU initiatives to control member countries' tax schemes and to establish an EU army which would put UK troops under EU command.
Don't forget Americans had to fight a war of independence beginning in 1776 to establish democracy and sovereignty; the British people fortunately have only had to stage a referendum and fight a bitter election to restore their independence and democracy.
The British people survived the bombs and rockets raining down on them from Europe in WWII. They can certainly survive a few years of economic uncertainty in exchange for restoring their national sovereignty and democracy.
5
All good outcomes but it only required that they drive their economy into a ditch.
@Peter
Thank you very much and you are spot on!
2
Well, the first Brexit vote wasn’t a mistake! The British really do want Brexit, even if it means voting Conservative. It will be interesting to see how it all pans out. But, I can’t help but think that those who switched sides from Labour will end up hurting even more. It will be interesting to see what happens in Australia. There is talk of the ability of Australians and the English being able to travel and work freely between both countries. Australia will also be able to have separate agreements with England and the EU. But, Julia Gillard was right. Australia is only 25 million, we are no replacement for the size of the EU market.
5
Without the UK in the EU, who is going to bail out Greece and Italy the next time they come to Brussels, cap in hand?
Germany? France?
3
@On a Small Island
Since the last bail out was mostly paid for by members of the Eurozone (countries that have the Euro as currency) and not the EU as a whole. The UK, with her isn't part of said Eurozone and had therefore very very very little to do with it and it were already Germany and France who footed most of the bill...
Next time look for a better argument why anyone should miss the UK ;)
18
A significant tranche of money was sent to Ireland from HM Treasury (€3.85m) don't forget. And €15.58bn to the overall bailout fund.
2
I get the impression from this article that Mark Landler based his article on the opinions of academics (such as a professor of politics at LSE) rather than going out around the country to talk directly to voters. Had he done so he might find that working class people who formerly voted Labour did not vote Conservative for the reasons he suggests but for two reasons: they don’t like Jeremy Corbyn and the way he has changed the Labour Party and because they want to get on with leaving the EU and end the paralysis and uncertainty of the last three years. These are the reasons given by people when interviewed about the way they voted.
14
Singapore is run by an authoritarian government that is a model to the Chinese Communist elite. So, I can’t imagine why Johnson wants Singapore-on-the-Thames—unless he’s secretly more like Trump than pundits joke.
Ok, so “Johnson’s entire pitch domestically is the antithesis of Singapore-on-Thames,” says Mr. Wright, in this article.
So, Johnson’s now more full of hot air than ever? Trump certainly was, after his election. Recall that Trump, too, avowed to be a “big tent” peacemaker, i.e., “president of all Americans” during his election night bow; and we know what became of that.
Trump certainly likes ballooning deficits. Now, Johnson aims for that, too.
All indications are (by this article and others) that Johnson has no better idea of a workable Brexit plan than he did before. So, his mandate is a new set of newbies in Parliament? “We can hold their feet to the fire,” says a new Parliamentary member. But that’s not going to make an unworkable Brexit plan magically workable.
OK, so Johnson wins discretion to “pursue a softer Brexit.” He’s got one month.
And it’s normal to take several years to negotiate any EU trade deal, but Johnson is going to get it done in less than a year? The EU is still free to reject whatever Johnson wants to shove through.
Fact is, more problems still face Brexiters than did by staying in the EU.
11
@gary e. davis ballooning deficits don't seem to matter too much when you control your own currency like the GBP... thats why they never joined the Euro in the first place...
1
The bright side of BoJo's sweep:
-- The Brexit standoff is resolved, for better or worse. The point had been reached where the agony of further stalemate had begun to seem more demoralizing than the worst outcome.
-- An element of clarity has been restored. BoJo and the Tories now own Brexit, lock, stock and barrel. If Brexit works to the country's benefit, its momentum will keep the Tories in power for years. If Brexit fails to deliver as promised, a chastened and more realistic Labour Party will be waiting in the wings.
-- Jeremy Corbyn is now history. He is surely not the demon his detractors describe, but he was a poor political strategist. In an election that was clearly about Brexit, Corbyn came out foursquare for waffling. The leader of a political party needs a talent for political strategy, and if proves to be plainly lacking, it's time to step aside.
7
This is so incredible. By the vote, the majority of the people seem to be against Brexit... "parties that either oppose Brexit or want to rethink Britain’s departure won 52 percent of the total votes cast, while the Conservatives and other pro-Brexit parties won only 46 percent." I said it before in another comment, all Jeremy Corbyn had to do was to say that the Labour Party opposed Brexit and opposed another referendum. And with that, they would have won the election.
It is kind of like America, Hillary Clinton won the popular vote but lost the election and now we have Donald Trump. Americans want Social Security and Medicare and then vote for the Republican Party which is doing everything it can to destroy both program. Go figure.
13
Farage, BoJo, etc get the UK to pull out of the EU and then do little to prevent it from splintering.
Trump weakens the West in a wintry mix of neglect, unreliability, and animosity, and divides the American populace like the second-coming of the CSA.
Putin can't believe how well his investments in Western politicians have paid off.
18
Finally, the rest of us have been waiting for the UK to just get out. We have more important business to get to than this tiny island state off our coast.
5
Tiny island that saved you all from fascism.
13
Until it couldn’t save itself.
@In The Ville While the soldiers (and aviators) from that small island fought bravely, it is, paradoxically, the USSR that saved AAA's people from fascism.
5
Everyone except the UK has an upper hand in negotiations.
5
Johnson's victory is less a mandate for Brexit than a horror of a Corbyn government.
Mistaking Johnson as the savior of the realm is the usual myopic analysis of non Brits.
5
Well said.
2
People I know who work in the financial sector were more worried about Corbyn than Brexit. The phrase "See you at work tomorrow or the airport" was doing the rounds.
good riddance. the British eagerness to leave the European union is based on misplaced nationalism and racism. their eagerness to fragment the EU might break Britain into 3 independent entities. Northern Ireland, Welch and their island
8
I believe Mr. Boris Johnson and allies lied to British voters to win their support for Brexit in the referendum two years ago. The most likely outcome of leaving the European Union is an economically isolated and poorer Britain. It seems possible that Scotland may vote to leave the British union as well.
Brexit will be interesting, not least because the Labour Party voters who gave their vote to Mr. Johnson are the ones who are likely to suffer the most harm when Mr. Johnson succeeds.
12
Enlightened self interest requires that the EU make the harshest deal possible with BREXIT and try to wreck the British economy and facilitate the breakup of the UK.
If they make nice and allow a "have their cake and eat it" Singapore in Europe BREXIT deal the EU will break up instead, as other member nations demand the same deal.
Britian needs to serve as a object lesson to discourage nationalism in other EU members. And while the EU economy will take a slight hit from loss opportunities with Britian, they need to realise that they are now competitors and any trade that Britain gets is at their expense. And the cost in the long term to the EU of a soft BREXIT will be far worse.
The EU can use this as an opportunity as well… to promote closer integration of the economy and more central control. Nationalism has left the EU in a untenable position regarding unification, with the job half done, but in the wake of a British collapse and possible breakup of the UK, nationalist in the EU will be neutered as their threats to leave become a joke.
Thus the plans for a "United States of Europe" can progress with less obstruction (particularly by the British). Eventually the "poor man of Europe" can be allowed back in, as England and Whales, not the UK (Ireland and Scotland already being members by then), and with NO SPECIAL TREATMENT.
The Euro as currency and driving on the right side, just another EU member having to follow all the rules, not a leader, but a follower.
12
It doesn't seem like Britain had any good options. Both Johnson & Corbyn are lacking. But there are lessons to learn. Voters want results. In Trump's case, his aggressive talking & tweeting seems like results. Sooner or later, Johnson & Trump will not have anything to show the average citizen and working people for all the talking & tweeting.
10
How ironic that London should now aspire to be its former colony.
10
Boris' Singapore-on-Thames vision has will negatively impact US markets which have been trading up anticipating privatization of UK' NHS. Without it, there will be no US-UK Free Trade Agreement.
3
Hate to bring up a painful topic but...what does this say about our US elections in 2020?
4
@Antonia Murphy
It means Trump is likely to win reelection by a very comfortable margin.
3
I am begging the Democrats to learn the lesson of the British Labour Party...do not confuse dissatisfaction with the Government with a mandate for sweeping change. Sanders and Warren are the Corbyns of the U.S. Down that path lies a second Trump term.
71
Corbyn proposed a "moderate" Brexit. Voters in the UK seem to want one extreme or the other. Like Americans, they're sick of moderation which means status quo.
5
@Melbourne Town: No, they’re not. Sanders is not an anti-Semite and Warren is not a socialist (and not an anti-Semite either).
12
@Theodore R Actually Americans ARE majority moderate. The media magnifies trivial differences and focuses on the extremists in both parties.
Most people fear change and will go for the familiar in place of the radical and scary.
14
Johnson will will have to become a Labour-Conservative to deliver for all who voted for him. Interesting times are ahead.
6
Mind blowing that people voted for Boris Brexit on the strength of three short words "Get Brexit Done", especially as nobody knows what those three short words really mean past exiting the EU (if Boris 'trust me' Johnson knows he has refused to share). And worse is that few citizens seemed to care. Such behavior is not a good look for a country that holds itself up as an example of a functioning liberal democracy, neither for Johnson nor for the voters. It smacks of managed democracy.
7
The problem with "frustrated working-class voters" is they tend to strike blindly. They have legitimate complaints and they have a precarious if not hard life. But they often seek remedy precisely where they are not going to get. They will follow the latest blowhard who promises what he cannot deliver. Unfortunately, real solutions are difficult to implement and they take time to bring about. At the same time, people in need cannot wait for future improvements. They need immediate relief. How to reconcile these two realities is the issue of our time. I hope that Johnson can help these voters who went for him in desperation, but the past does not offer promise.
22
The problem is that the real Left was destroyed a long time ago so there is no alternative. This is exactly how Fascism grows.
6
Yeah, all you people keep thinking there's a Kinder, Gentler Tory Party, like the soon-to-be-corpses in Tiananmen Square who thought there was a Good Army coming to protect them from the Bad Army.
5
Go Scotland and Ireland!! Make your own nations, at last free of centuries of English tyranny. Let Longshank's roll over in his grave.
14
What a choice - choose a racist socialist or a demagogue who used racism and fear to get people to vote for brexit.
Either way the British people lose, and their country diminished.
Does everyone need to give Putin an early Christmas present. Are there no moral, patriotic and ethical leaders anymore?
7
The soon-former-UK's unforgivable abortion of democracy and self-determination does give me a perverse bit of hope.
If de Pfeffel, that manipulatively self-rumpled lying dollop of highly-enriched bigotry[1], can somehow convince people of his "Let's fund our NHS instead" Pants-on-Fire TWICE, and gain a MAJORITY this time, AND have so many children from dalliances that he refuses to say how many he has AND still have Carrie Symonds by his side and not running away to the nearest constabulary to report a MeToo in progress, then I can absolutely and quite surely realize my dream of holding daily threesomes with elf-eared[2] astrophysicist-supermodels wherein scholarly black-hole gravity-assist theory seminars lead to Cosmopolitan-blushing bedtimes.
Yes, de Pfeffel will have helped drive humanity to a cruel and entirely preventable extinction, but in doing so he's also proven that—in the short time we'll have—Hearts has been broken, every card is in play, and NOTHING is impossible.
[1] Look up Stewart Lee in The Guardian. His full name for that hideous two-time two-timing PM is the PM in a nutshell.
[2] Or Vulcan-eared. Either one, really.
1
The english deserve everything that is now coming to them : loss of Scotland and northern Ireland and a deregulated economy.
12
@Bis K That's harsh. Less than 45% of the electorate voted for the Conservatives, and overwhelming those younger than 45 voted against, it's their future and well-being that is at stake and greatly diminished. I hope the 55% who voted against make some positive headway, no idea how, leaving the EU is a crushingly debilitating blow. Move to Scotland or Ireland?
4
My family ancestors mostly died in 1745 at the bloody battle of Culloden, fighting the English.
I hope the Scots gets their independence.
I hope Brexit becomes Brex-up.
10
Knowing Boris... he will find a way to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory.
Because.. that is the very nature of Boris Johnson.
3
Russia's first, then the Saudi's. The U.K. self-relegated with this.
2
The question is. Did they lie?
You forgot the words "How often". Of course the Brexit trainwreck referendum succeeded on lies and de Pfeffel won the future little england Thursday on even more of them. *Whether* they did has long been answered.
2
The journalists, experts and politicians don’t know what the voters want. If they did then they wouldn’t keep being surprised by what the voters do.
4
@KBronson exactly which journalists are surprised by this result? I didn't see a single article that didn't predict a Tory win or, worst case, a hung Parliament. I know you want to portray journalists as out of touch, but, unfortunately for you, there is absolutely no evidence to support you.
2
Singapore on the Thames? In addition to immaculate sidewalks and squeaky clean streets and parks, this can mean caning, no chewing gum, no blunts and no LGBT. Be careful what you asked for, Brits, because you will definitely get it.
7
@robert More likely The Bahamas on the North Sea.
7
Perhaps the greed that allowed foreign buyers to purchase expensive real estate also allowed those buyers to purchase elected officials
Just like in the US.
There is no doubt in my mind that the destruction of the US and Britain was planned by global oligarchs. They have loyalty to their money and nothing else.
10
It seems that, despite the technological progress we made throuout the last century, we will never learn and fully embrace the fact that if something sounds too good to be true, it's exactly that - too good to be true.
As a result, the Britons are left with an uncertain future and the rest of us, the western European countries, lose an ally against the homophopia that is far too common in Eastern Europe. I wonder who'll lose more.
8
The premise of this article is suspect. The Tory MP's from formerly Labour constituencies are a small minority of the Tory majority. They will have little clout given the size of the majority. Boris will have the luxury of a full term before he has to face the electorate again.
The moderates of the Tory party have been purged. The ERG (right wing extreme Brexit Tory caucus) completely dominate the party.
So much emotion has been stirred up that a soft Brexit is extremely unlikely. The momentum to a very lightly regulated country with little access to world markets is the most likely outcome, whatever the negative consequences.
5
The wealth & prosperity of London & the Southeast never spread across the rest of Britain. London hoovered up talent, jobs & wages, and the amenities followed. As an ex-pat in London, I didn’t realise the starkness of the imbalance until I spent more time beyond the Southeast. I firmly believe those folks who switched to the Tories yesterday ultimately voted against their own self-interest, but I understand why they so readily bought Johnson’s snake oil that Britain can return to its glory days.
8
What might be missing in these doomsayer scenarios for Britain is that the USA will make the UK a principal trading partner which will benefit both British and American workers. Like minds think alike and the next five years of President Trump and Prime Minister Johnson should bode well for both countries.
4
Like the British workers “stealing” American jobs? Or the opposite? It is quite contradictory to be for protectionism and for trade agreements at the same time. That’s why Brexit is so much based in a lie.
5
@John Gilday A very tough sell, standards for food, environmental protection, labor laws, privacy and a whole host of other things are far higher in the UK than the US.
4
Oh yes, uk will surely get beneficial trade conditions with the usa because they ...... no, wait they probably won’t. As previously stated - free trade and protectionism are practically opposite concepts. But better that americans buy up all the pubs than the chinese....
Dear U.K.,
A suicide is still a suicide by any other name.
-- Your American friends.
9
Bottom line: Brexit supporters pine longingly for a British Empire that died in 1947 and will never live again. Great Britain is destined to morph into little england, the sovereign equivalent of an old lady stubbornly occupying her rent controlled direct-current apartment while the world evolves around her and awaits her demise.
154
@Mavendetout
Brilliant.
11
@Mavendetout
If your member or Congress could neither propose or amend legislation... would you feel "represented?"
Counter-cite that supposition, or everyone else who reads this thread will know you are ILL-informed on WHAT the EU _actually_ is. Everyone will know that what you had to say reactionary (left-wing authoritarian reactionary) and in no way Liberal.
Spoiler alert: no counter citation is possible. Members of the European Parliament are rubber-stampers paid off in 100k(ish)/year tax free Euros in a high tax state. They cannot propose legistlation.
They cannot amend legislation.
They downvote, it comes back _exactly as the black box in Brussels/Strasbourg proposed until the Borg gets what the Borg wants.
Would you feel comfortable with TRUMP being your only "representation" in some hypothetical PanAmerican uberstate?
Yeah, that flush of shame you're feeling? Feel it BURN. Brexit isn't Trump man.
BREXIT IS 1776.
And here in (Queen) Charlottesville I congratulate the cousins on taking our fine example & breaking free from tyranny. God save the Queen!
Still doubt me? Mark 20 years ahead on Google etc with "what do I think of the EU now?" Cut and paste this exchange in perhaps. I promise you this: if you are a good person, your opinion of the EU will have soured considerably by then.
7
I don’t understand why anyone would want Britain to fail. A lot of comments posted here seem to almost wish for that to happen. It is not true that those who voted for Brexit pine for the days of the British empire. This is a slur put about by those who wanted to remain in the EU. Britain rightly gave independence to countries within the Empire largely between the 1940s and 1960s. We are well over it by now. No one thinks it right for one country to rule another and we don’t harp after it. Such negative comments are not made about other European countries who are not party of the EU political block, such as Norway or Switzerland. Why wish Britain harm?
19
Prediction: Brexit gets done in a way that satisfies no one; the UK thrashes around politically for ten years and suffers economically; Scotland leaves; Ireland unifies; a diminished Britain, having learned the hard way, petitions for re-admittance to the EU. But at least the lessons will have been administered democratically.
355
@Pen - Don't forget the global recession that it will trigger.
21
@Tim
Very good point. Keynes treatise in 1919 on the Versailles Treaty was based largely on the fact that the ravages of the war had created in balances all over the place. The increase in transaction costs with Britain will have a ripple effect: higher transaction cost means less transactions, less transactions means lower production, lower production means more poverty - everywhere.
7
@Tim
I guess we could argue about that. The UK is a rather small economy, the international component of which was asa financial center until Brexit. Turns out that Brexit’s “control of borders” element simply meant that all those financial institutions could follow their European workers back to Europe.
8
Fascinating historically ... from the Great British Empire to little England in 100 years ... a chapter for future history books.
93
English fear of a multicultural society is the core of this outcome. These fools will reap an economic and political quagmire if the EU walks away from negotiations. Scotland and Northern Ireland could vote to leave the United Kingdom as a result, leaving England and Wales as new third world economies.
101
@Figaro I was going to post my own comment but you caught the essence of my thoughts. Johnson will attempt to negotiate trade deals with the EU and the USA from a position of weakness. Surprising that British voters didn't see that coming.
1
The events of the past four years ago remind me of this observation made over twenty years ago when the English scholar James Fenton wrote: “...An English nationalism, when it raises its head above the level of absurdity, can only be sinister.” These days when I think of those words I cannot but help think of Monty Python at one end of that spectrum and Nigel Farage at the other with Boris at the fulcrum.
83
Jeremy Corbyn was weak in his responses to the fake anti-semitism and the fake Cold War 2.0 Russiagate charges furiously put about by the secret police, their think tank cut-outs and media mouthpieces.
Corbyn and his supporters should have forthrightly denounced all of the smears from the very beginning, and not only destroyed their substance but also exposed the perfidy of their sources, including the Israel lobby, MI6, the Atlantic Council and all the rest, but he didn’t. Instead he went along with the hounding of Chris Williamson out of the BLP; he opposed Brexit (sotto voce); and he backed down on NATO and Trident (as stated in the Labour manifesto). He essentially capitulated to the Blairites.
The Cold War 2.0 smearing is what any other mild progressives elsewhere can expect when running in bourgeois elections (eg, as is happening now to Sanders or Gabbard in the US). Fake Russiagate and/or anti-semitism smearing is being globalised as SOP to push back against any attempts, no matter how mild and pallid, to oppose imperialist wars and depredations, or the ravages of neoliberal austerity, privatisations, upward wealth transfers, and all the accompanying social pathologies that have decimated most capitalist countries over the last 40 years. From the US to the UK, and back for the 2020 US elections and anywhere in between, the Russiagate cancer is metastasising.
Labour, like the bourgeois Dems in the US and social democratic parties elsewhere, never fail to disappoint.
Brexit means an even more corporate Britain, more Americanised than it already is.
The Donald is rubbing his hands, and US corporates are going to make a killing at the expense of those who gave this madness the green light.
A no deal Brexit is now very much on the cards. Ouch. I don’t think anyone, anywhere, has given one single rational argument that this is a good idea on any level whatsoever. Ooops...
Some of the most brainwashed of the core Labour vote apparently hate Jeremy Corbyn because he’s supposedly a “rabid anti-semite”, when the truth is that JC is the most non-racist, pleasant, cool, calm and collected person you could ever imagine. How he kept his cool under such enormous pressure is testament to his strength.
Bad day for Julian Assange, bad day for anyone who believed a bunch of gangsters would not be allowed to inflict 10 years of austerity, and get away with it.
Well, the Brits have chosen to harm themselves – obviously it will be impossible to contain the schadenfreude when electoral self-harmers are punished for their monumental stupidity.
And believe me quite a few of them will suffer.
3
Question:
Brexit Is Going to Get Done. But on Whose Terms?
Answer:
Putins.
6
Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland ought to secede
2
I've never bothered to learn how the British voting system works (why would I) but looking at the map it seems to me that the Brits are suffering the same annoying fate as we do here in the US: the forward (normal) thinking people in the big cities (London, Manchester, Liverpool etc) are consistently voting liberal (as everyone in his right mind should) while the frustrated left behind minority in the countryside is giving their vote to any loon (Trump, Johnson and the like) they hope will change their miserable existence. Something has to be changed about how votes are counted apparently.
3
How long before it turns out that there was foreign interference in the election?
3
This was a watershed election. Now both the UK and the US are led by millionaire populist TV celebrities. This is how liberal democracy now looks 2019 style.
After 10 years of austerity, especially ravaging in the working class north, these people have happily voted in another 5 years of Tory rule. this time with a hefty mandate.
The 'Elite', which i define as the 1% at the top of the economic chain, not the 'chattering middle class urban left' which have been successfully portrayed as such, are safe from the evils of socialism and redistribution, and the English people, led by Boris, can now steer their economy into uncharted waters as the Union of the UK falls apart around them.
Australia has yet to see their Trump/Boris . . but he/she will arrive, and when they do they will turn everything upside down . . . and maybe deservedly.
The heady mix of celebrity, populism and monied power are the new liberal democracy, and judging by the way the British have voted . . far preferable to the horror of backward socialism or an economy more centrally planned.
Don't forget that China is where it is today as a result of a centrally planned economy. And they are not likely soon to ruin everything with one of our western style charade elections.
3
change a few names and this piece could be talking about trump back when he first colonized our minds in 2016--his people will control his impulses, there will be big infrastructure spending, et al. we can see how that worked out for us.
oh well--at least britain's peculiarly-coiffed leader speaks in complete sentences.
11
We have just elected the most right wing government in living memory. Early congratulations came from Trump, Putin and Modi.
The Conservatives are now completely free to pursue their agenda of light touch regulation and low taxes. And Brexit, which will certainly be economically damaging.
Thanks to the toxic combination of Marxism and anti-Semitism served up by Jeremy Corbyn and his party, we do not have a credible opposition party.
So the result is an unopposed, unchallenged right wing government. We should be very afraid.
25
We are!
2
UK has been the second largest economy in the Europe, that was the case before there was a EU and during the time of EU and it will continue to be after that.
As long as the invest in their society by keeping the cost of education low and churning out an educated work force, they will continue to maintain their status.
However, they will need to take hard conservative positions for some duration, which means cutting a lot of their costs in the form of benefits to the unproductive sections of their society and forcing people to get back to the work force.
1
If you look at the projection of the population by country in the next 30 years, you may be surprised to see who will be 1st and 2nd economy in the EU. UK is not one of them.
1
@John we need more workhouses and debtor's prisons. That's the ticket.
4
One can only force people back to work if there is any work. What a simplistic idea forcing people back to work would create work.
5
While it is clear that Johnson won a large number of seats, 48 more than Conservatives won in 2017, it is interesting that he only got 1.2% of votes more than last time. I am not sure if this means that there were a lot of close elections or that the English system is gerrymandered.
2
The districts are determined by an independent commission and has never been seen as anything but fair. The last map of seats entrenched a certain minimum set of seats for the Conservatives, but not an insurmountable challenge had the part I support provided a leader who wasn’t so arrogant and incompetent. Bernie supporters should read the writing on the wall. However, even now, the Corbynistas can’t bring themselves to admit their choice was a bad one
@Frank Casa gerrymandered
No, everyone in Britain has the same vision for Brexit. They want to be free of EU restrictions, without any cost or inconvenience to themselves.
10
@Jim1648 Including, presumably, the "inconvenience" of having access to the largest common market in the world?
You exhibit a very single-minded view of the EU. Yes, there were responsibilities and burdens to membership. There were also rights that supporters of the Union would tell you were more than compensatory.
2
@Jim1648 No, Not Britain, that includes Scotland, and they didn't vote for Brexit and they didn't vote Conservative in this election either. They will however vote for independence.
5
Yeah, I don’t want the restriction imposed by my country. Neither do I want the ones imposed by my “county”. And since we are at it, I don’t want the restrictions imposed by my city. So this will leave me alone and happy in my apartment, but with no water, no police and no international protection. No doubt, being totally free to do only what I want will bring me a shiny future.
9
The Brit has been taken to the cleaners by the Brexit people. The EU does not need Great Britain. It will pull its financial operations out of Great Britain and relocate them in the EU because there will be no financial benefits to keep them in a non-EU country. GB will now have to pay tariffs on all of the goods it sells to the EU. The EU, if it has any sense will stop all the benefits GB gets from membership. The EU will put the same tariffs on GB products that the rest of the non-EU world has to pay. For some fanisy reason the pro-brexit people think that they will retain all the benefits of the EU without the responsibilities.
23
@Jeff Don't forget all your arguments go both ways. (I'm also pretty convinced that EU still needs Great Britain). Just take a look at the political facts UK versus EU.
3
@Jeff Don't forget all your arguments go both ways. (I'm also pretty convinced that EU still needs Great Britain). Just take a look at the political facts UK versus EU.
@Jeff
I think Britain is going to do just fine. Without Britain the EU is much diminished and not only as reflected in economic statistics. The cultural pragmatism and flexibility will help Britain readily adapt while in EU is bogged down in its continental rigidities.
We would all benefit to see the U.K. in a free trade agreement with the US and the rest of the Anglosphere.
2
The pound will shoot up. the stock market will rise up, money will flow in (because London is a safe haven), new factories will be built, the average Brit will have a job. All this will happen. What will also happen is that Britain will start making world class products again, which it is currently not doing. It will send their brightest and best with a bag full of tricks to every shore and strike deals and build markets. All these things will happen.
Finally. I have been buying for years, my projections were bullish. I remain firmly bullish. The gloom and doom is unjustified, and no, the terms under which Brexit occurs simply do not matter beyond the immediate term.
5
@Kalidan Kiss yut investment goodbye! GB has survived sing the Second World War on the charity of other nations. Exactly what economic benefit would EU firms get from doing their financial business through British banks?
3
@Kalidan
Also, manufacturing plants will come back to the USA.
3
This will be bad luck for those who will have to suffer through it “in the immediate term”, who are not the “best and the brightest” and who, by lucky chance, are also the people who voted for the Conservatives.
1
This result reminds me of the speech the peasant gave to King Arthur in Monty Python about class oppression.
After a few years of Brexit, they may have to go around the countryside and shout 'Bring out yer dead!'
8
I kind of figured this was the remoaners faults.
It is wonderful to see the land where my ancestors came from 12 generations ago re-establish itself as the fount of liberty and the enemy of autocratic democratic centralism in this world. What was Corbyn thinking?
Brendan O'Neill, quoting a Laborite whiner in The Spectator, wrote:
\\Enraged Corbynista Paul Mason is describing the election result as a ‘victory of the old over the young, racists over people of colour, selfishness over the planet’.//
Sound familiar?
I believe it was Sorel who said (quoting from memory) "When people speak of the death of ideology, it is usually left-wing ideology that they are talking about."
Leftism may not be dead, but it certainly isn't feeling very well this morning.
8
@Dougal E We're witnessing the last dying gasps of rightism around the world.
But regardless, Boris Johnson behaved in a Ministerial manner to win.
@Dougal E: Do you remember why your ancestors left England and came to American? If they were like mine is was to escape poverty, starvation and the ability to own their own land and homes.
3
@Dougal E
The lust for power over others will always be present in some as will the childish desire to be taken care of and get something for nothing in others. The former will always exploit the latter to create some version of leftism.
1
From the picture here Boris Johnson looks to have transformed himself from a bumbling fool to a plausible political leader overnight. Either those English telephone booths are really special or we've been had some strong selection of photographs coming from the newsroom.
9
I'm a lifelong Democrat and an American Jew who like many, many of my fellow Jews am breathing a sign of relief that Jeremy Corbyn is not the new Prime Minister.
There are many people who have posted comments on various Times articles the past year who quite wrongly assumed that the concern of Jews in Britain and around the world about Corbyn and a substantial number of his supporters being antisemites is totally related to criticism of Israel. It most definitely is not.
The majority of American Jews support a two State solution to the Israeli Palestinian conflict. They do not view criticism of Netanyahu and his government as being anti-semitic.
There has been a phenomenal 150% increase in anti semitic incidents since Donald Trump became President. These not only include attacks on Jews here in America and in Europe that have resulted in the murders of innocent Jewish men, women and children, but also the constant spewing forth the lies that Jews control the media, Congress, the economy, foreign policy, Hollywood, and are manipulating events here and around the world.
Jewish journalists at the Times and across the U.S. that have criticized Trump have received death threats directed against them and their families. Antisemitic tweets are now in the millions.
Boris Johnson may be a Conservative and I am a Liberal Democrat but I applaud the British people for not electing a man who condoned antisemitism in his Party and befriended
terrorists who have murdered my people.
6
@Mark Jeffery Koch Boris is a right wing TV celebrity populist, very similar to Trump in the way he has taken over what was a conservative party. You celebrate this ? You have no idea what you are going to get . . what lies will appeal to the masses over the next year or so ?
2
@Mark Jeffery Koch Do you have any evidence of anti-semitism in the Labour party that is worse than what we already know about anti-semitism in the Conservative party? Or are you just repeating vile slander propagated by Ruport Murdoch's media empire?
2
Brexit:
We want Dollar General!
We don’t want choice, we want fatty ground beef meatloaf and apple pie and Hershey bars.
We don’t want bank holidays, we want Thanksgiving, that’ll do us. We want guns, freedom, glorified sheds and caravans to live in. We don’t want “welfare”, we want to stand on our own feet and not have to pay for anyone worse off than us.
We want to climb to the top and kick those below is.
We want God on our side.
We want a bloated security state and everlasting war.
Good luck !
19
@Chris We're gunna need it man . . we're gunna need it . .
Imagine a future where Scotland has become independent, and there is a United Ireland, with a Bill of Rights letting all worship as they please.
So the mighty British Empire will have shrunk to Boris and his ilk cheering on the Queen or King, in a tiny Island Nation.
With, of course, a powerful Russian oligarchic empire, linked with the American mobsters who run America.
Hugh
31
Boris and his folks should, nay MUST, leave the EU by 31 December 2019. By 01012020, the UK will be free to fend for itself. Boris, do it—a cold, hard Brexit on 12/31/19. Long live the Queen and England. Please let Scotland leave England. No more UK; only England. The world is very happy, Indeed.
6
Assuming Kentucky equals the world.
2
Breentry 2029. Mark you calendars.
14
I hope Scotland and Northern Ireland now breaks off Great Britain.
Let little England drown itself in nostalgia in a sea of big boys - the U.S., E.U., Russia, China etc. - are going to be fighting it out for superpower status.
So long, little England, bon voyage to the land of mediocrity!
24
But on Whose Terms?
That is the # 64 000 question. Because for all his (intentional) dishevel appearance and (intentional) ill fitting suits, Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, educated at posh Eton and high brow Cambridge is a member of the British elite - which is precisely why he was a popular major of London.
And precisely, why "The City" Financial Capital of Europe , elected him to this office twice
We may be in for a surprise.
1
Sad to see that the majority of English voters are as simple-minded and short-sighted as the legions of Trump supporters.
30
@Paying Attention yes, reciting a Walt Kelly Pogo cartoon...”we have met the enemy and he is us”
Let’s see how Boris Trump handles Ireland/Northern Ireland, and Scotland. UK could get real small, real fast.
2
Johnson might see the end of the UK in the European Union, but he will also likely see the end of the United Kingdom as we know it, when Scotland - finally - becomes an independent nation again. I wonder which one he will be most hated for in years to come?
11
@Flossy
I think most English will see them off with smiles and waves.
4
UK social-economic values are closely related to the US values, and less with continental Europe. DeGaulle was right, he knew why he vetoed the UK membership.
12
My father was from one of the many countries that the English government and crown colonized: Ireland. He wasn't anti-English people. He was just anti-imperialism and anti-colonialism.
He died twenty years ago. If he were alive, I know he'd be following the Brexit saga and cheering on the idea that Ireland might be united, but only if the Troubles can be avoided, of course. No sane person would want a return of the Troubles. If Ireland is to unite, it must be done thoughtfully.
16
@Innisfree Another Irish-American here, back from my second trip to Ireland a couple of months ago including a trip to Belfast where the Troubles are percolating just below the surface and the younger generation, aka the New IRA, is aching to make its mark. BoJo better get that border situation right -- and quick. Lyra McKee, a journalist, was killed in NI over the Good Friday Agreement back in April, so, obviously, the potential for violence is strong.
2
@Innisfree
The UK should not allow it self to be held hostage to Irish bull-headed insistence on fighting amongst themselves.
@KBronson The Good Friday Agreement, a multi-party agreement guaranteed anyone living in Northern Ireland the right to choose to be a British citizen, an Irish citizen, or both. So according to that agreement, the people living in Northern Ireland will continue to be EU citizens if they so chose even if Brexit happens.
5
All those Brits who voted to leave thinking the UK will miraculously return to the 1960s, when there were no immigrants, and everyone with a high school diploma got a manufacturing job are in for such a rude awakening next year.
182
@George T.
There were plenty of immigrants in the UK in the 1960s. Who do you think Enoch Powell was railing against.
5
@George T.
Nah, those expecting a return to the golden past will be promised pie tomorrow, and given more scapegoats and excuses, and forever chase an impossible dream.
9
They believe that they'll get the old British Empire back. Fine, just invade half the world and see how that goes this time around when the natives have the same weapons.
7
He will do as Trump did with tax cuts for the rich and more austerity for the poor while shoveling more printed money to the bank sector. This is a certain as the amen in church.
16
At the end of the day the vote was one against unrestricted immigration from Europe. It must be puzzling for Americans as European immigrants are white. However Eastern European immigrants have taken jobs from locals all over Western Europe. Do something about this and restrict immigration.If not more countries will leave.
8
Even the Dalai Lama is pragmatic enough to understand the destabilizing effects of mass migration and the inevitable reaction of people to protect their way of life and culture. And he was a refugee. Just wait until climate change and further conflict creates a flood of refugees from outside Europe. Pragmatism will rule the day.
9
@Mik That is just the same old lie. European immigrants, just like the latino illegal immigrants in the US, are taking the jobs that the local citizens refuse to take. The EU does not require member countries to hire people from other member countries. What is more likely to happen is that British firms with EU subsidiaries will move into the EU, abandoning GB when they cannot find workers and no longer watwat to take a hit on their bottom like due to the tariffs that they will have to pay to export their goods to the EU.
3
@Mik
Every single study I've come across indicates that your statement is factually incorrect. Here is but one:
https://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/EA019.pdf
There simply is no correlation. Voting for Brexit because 'immigrants have taken jobs from locals' is as good a reason as the Brexiteers promising free beer and unicorns.
It's wrong: Nigel Farage is lying, UKIP is wrong, the Brexit Party is wrong, and we're about to get a giant bloody reality check when it turns out the world is not queuing up to buy post-Brexit unregulated Fortnum & Mason hampers or whatever Boris thinks is going to keep our economy afloat.
3
My bet is, Johnson will "reconcile" the different interests of his conservative Tory supporters and new blue collar backers by implementing deregulation, free trade markets and austerity, but then saying he did the opposite to his blue collar backers. if he does it with charm and a joke, enough will believe hom
8
Blue collar used to be sharper now they are easier to fool. Welcome to America
3
As a remainer and lover of the EU's freedoms and humanitarian philosophy I fought to the end. It can take a lot of the credit for the peace and prosperity we've enjoyed since WW2 with its early manifestation as the EEC under the Treaty of Rome.
But now I accept defeat, finally. It doesn't mean that I've given up on the EU project, it means that I'm now planning on moving to Scotland and throwing myself into the independence campaign that will surely follow this election. I'm not a turkey, I will never vote for Christmas. I want all of us turkeys to live, thrive, and know their grandkids are safe.
Unfortunately none of the UK's turkeys will be able to know that now, all they'll know is winter is coming.
34
I’m also from Bath and wholeheartedly agree. Fortunately, I’m married to an EU/British dual national and we intend to move to Europe as soon as we can. We remember the 1980s under Thatcher and are too weary to countenance another vicious decade of merciless neoliberalism combined with English nationalism. We’re getting out of here.
6
Our kids are being massacred.
2
@Lewi your kind of thinking is really quite counter intuitive and amusing to me... you have extreme disdain for English self determination but your recourse when confronted with its stubborn reality is to head north and beat the drum for Scottish sovereignty? Not that I don’t think the Scots should have it... but you’re being a bit intellectually dishonest perhaps? So it’s strictly your personal love of the idealistic yet dysfunctional, pan- European, semi federalized institutions that compromise the EU which dictate your entire political allegiance , where you live and livelihood? Makes little sense to me...
1
I am guessing this will mean farewell to the NHS. The end of a major and well-loved social safety net program via a concerted Facebook and social-media misinformation barrage and then alluring offers of "choice," microtargeted in the same way, will be a test case for the dismantling of Medicare and Social Security. (With this election result, I greatly fear that there is a similar juggernaut of people in the U.S., hidden to all but Facebook, who don't mind a mafioso in the White House)
13
@B.L. Frankly, anyone who tells you from UK the NHS will be binned by any government is off his rocker.
The NHS is so ingrained in our UK society it would be the end of any government that decided to sell off chunks. No government would survive it, regardless of its colour and creed.
That said, I do not believe our Sacred Cow NHS necessarily gives value for money. But it will go on.
2
Putin must be so pleased -- one re-election down and one to go in 2020 as the power of the West is diminished, elevating Russia's global influence. It will be interesting, to say the least, to see if Scotland and Northern Ireland hang on for the ride.Hard to see any good reason why they would. There is no "Great" in Britain any longer.
28
@Jennene Colky Regrdless of the heated rhetoric coming from Scottish Nationalists led by Nicola Sturgeon, the simple truth is that Scotland's GDP is too small to maintain its 5.5m people without help.
Presently that help comes under a government policy called the Barnett Formula, where money from taxation is returned to support each of the nations in the Union; and Scotland gets something like 50% more per head of population than England. The Scots Nationalists don't like it but that extra money comes from England's 50m population's GDP.
Northern Ireland is different altogether and beyond a saint's comprehension to know what is best to do, so best to leave it to those in NI to decide for themselves.
3
@MikeP Thank you for the info -- truly -- as I had no knowledge of the Barnett Formula, I was relying at a color-coded map of the vote. I will be making my first visit to Scotland next summer, one of those trekking holidays, followed by my third visit to Ireland. It will be interesting to see the impact of yesterday's vote six months into the process, nothing like boots on the ground.
3
@Jennene Colky
Give the people of the UK some credit. They went to the polls and voted in a free election. I rather doubt they care one iota what Putin thinks or if he does.
The reality check of the day - to- day (post- Brexit) life will quickly short cut all anti - European dreams in the U. K.
Those circumstances will dictate next measures to be taken, not the ideological water treading of past three years.
@Rolf Siegen Most sentiment is not anti-European. Frankly for the most part we get on rather well with European people. I've worked in and travelled widely in Europe and expect to do so long after Brexit without difficulty.
Brexit isn't about that at all. The issue is to separate UK from the anti-democratic political structure called the European Union, which is led by a civil service (the Commission). No one in the Commission is elected, all are appointed. The elected body is the European Parliament with its members (MEPs) restricted to either voting in favour of EC proposed laws or abstaining: none may vote against.
UK is a long-established democracy where we like to be able to remove law makers we think aren't up to the job. There is no way to do that with the EC. hence we voted to leave.
6
Well , I hope that you enjoy thall the non-EU barriers the the people of GB will now have to endure. 1) you can't just move to the south of France when you retire. Now you're just like me, an American. If I decide to move to France , I have to jump through a whole lot of hoops that non-EU members doing have to. Now you will have to pay tariffs on everything that you ship to the EU and those things that you get from the EU. Since there will no longer be any financial benefit to use the British financial system, all these european banks and financial institutions will abandon you.
Did you not learn from the First and Second World Wars that GB does not have to resources to go it alone. My British friends tell me that SPAM is is almost the national dish of GB. Do you know where the name "SPAM" came from? America sent it to you in the during WWII? It is an acronym for Specially Processed American Meat.
2
@MikeP
My perception from afar is that the top-down European bureaucratic governing process and mindset is altogether a poor cultural fit for Britain with its pragmatic democratic and liberty focused traditions.
They are not suited to be within the same house but can remain good neighbors. After the initial pains, it will not be severing relations with Europe but normalizing then at an appropriate distance.
1
Between trump and now johnson I fear for the civilized world.
The world as we know it will not get better I’m afraid.
13
What are the daily, basic needs of Britain’s diverse population to
achieve an equitable, sustainable state of
experienced as well as actual wellbeing?
What are the needs of a divided nation as
“nationalism,” in its uncontrollable nature
expresses itself in ways which include
harmful, unexpected outcomes?
What helpful, as well as harmful, behaviors, words,deeds and mantras,
will personally unaccountable policymakers,
elected, selected, and as well as other relevant
agendaed influential stakeholders, express in
their daily chosen roles of being barriers -“bridges”
to contributing to make needed differences in
types, levels and qualities of menschlichkeit?
I am guessing this will mean farewell to the NHS. The end of a major and well-loved social safety net program via a concerted Facebook and social-media misinformation barrage and then alluring offers of "choice," microtargeted in the same way, will be a test case for the dismantling of Medicare and Social Security. (With this election result, I greatly fear that there is a similar juggernaut of people in the U.S., hidden to all but Facebook, who don't mind a mafioso in the White House)
1
It's funny that the author thinks there is another Brexit deal out there. Great Britain is now a competitor of the EU. Great Britain does not make or invent or export anything the rest of the world needs or can't get somewhere else. In other words, they have nothing to trade nor are they a big enough importer for any other trade group(US, EU, Asia) needing to worry about reaching a trade deal with them.The thing British citizens are going to find out after Brexit is how insignificant they are.
14
@Edward And yet we are the 5th largest economy on earth and likely to displace Germany to be 4th in the next few years.
Actually, we still do quite a lot.
6
@MikeP: Actually according several different internet sources, GB is the 7th largest. What will it be when it loses all the EU's business and start to have to pay the tariffs that other non-EU nations have to pay. The EU nations of France and Germany are ahead of you and Italy is biting at your heels. Do you really think the that the EU will grant you all of the privileges of EU members without any of the responsibilities?
7
@Jeff
I think you are missing Mike's point, Jeff!
The EU won't need to grant the UK any privileges as she will no longer be a member state but independent of the EU. The UK economy has always been stretched by her inventiveness and unmatched creativity, and I doubt that will change. She made our modern world on so many levels including our liberty that she evolved!
Both the EU and UK will benefit from equitable commerce with each other.
If Scotland does vote for independence, it's more likely the UK will develop a type of federal system rather than Scotland disappear into an ever expanding EU where it has little real political influence.
The UK being part of the EU has influence, but Scotland alone would have very little, in my opinion. I think Nicola Sturgeon knows this!
Since Brexit is seemingly done, now I will get some pop-corn and wait from Trump to impose economic sanctions on UK. Why? Because that’s what he does.
3
This is a great day for the UK. It is the start of divorce and healing from an abusive, distant partner who only wants more control and money.
5
@Simon
They I can totally understand. That’s what need to happen in the state of the abuse continues.
The silver lining for me is I have a new excuse to avoid travel through Heathrow while simultaneously avoiding my in-laws.
5
Here come the intellectual elite from Boston, NYC and LA wagging their fingers from an ivory tower. Only if the working class knew better. How could a weak Labour Party candidate lose!
Just as liberals fall in love with unelectable candidates who Trump will dispose of in 2020 like Warren, people are tired of the government telling them what they should do to the tune of 20T in tax increases
Least 2016 got the popular vote, right?
2
@Scott: 20T is the cost of Medicare for All over 10 years. Now health care costs about 33T over 10 years, all paid for by the working people in the form of premiums, co-pays, deductibles, lower wages and taxes.
9
The tax rate isn't high, especially historically. The problem is that wages have been stagnant for four plus decades while productivity and corporate earnings have ballooned. That's largely due to automation,not outsourcing. That's a fact the numbers show. Plus labor unions have been eviscerated thanks to "right to work" legislation. Meanwhile, the taxes the wealthy pay have plummeted while their wealth has grown. The tiniest percentage own the most wealth in the US than ever before. GOP "trickle down" voodoo economics helped make it all possible. Yet their poor and working class base fall in line, eating up the talk of God, guns and abortion to distract from their true intent.
7
It is impossible not to wonder about Putin's role in this election. We know he dumped lots of money into the Tory campaign. What else did he or his minions do to secure this election?
6
@Baruch
I see the New John Birch Society is well represented in Aroundthebend, Oregon.
How incredibly ironic that the U.K., which colonized Singapore as late as 1963, now aspires to be Singapore on the Thames!
The empire on which the sun never set, will soon be the one on which the sun barely rises! Scotland will try and secede. London will always do well. And the hinterlands will fall further behind.
4
UK result a predictor of 2020 U.S. election? Dems impeachment effort clearly a misfire. Need to get back on track regarding middle class/working class issues. Enough already with the identity politics and the social justice warfare.
@BD
So what issues are those?
@BD
All politics are identity politics. And it all started out with being the white identity.
1
Election results maps of the United Kingdom are fascinating to analyze. Thanks to the people who put that map together so quickly. It's clear that England minus the major urban areas is kind of like the U.S. South minus the major urban areas. But why? I understand why white people in Georgia minus Atlanta are likely to possess deeply reactionary political views. Such people are basically the "losers" of U.S. history, mostly descended from now discredited groups of people who championed race-based slavery and then racial segregation until the 1960s.
Why are white English people outside of London, Birmingham, Manchester, etc. exhibiting similar political behavior, voting like "losers" who are unreconciled to Britain's place in Europe? Do they view the European Union project the way whites in Georgia minus Atlanta view a more democratic, post-Jim Crow America?
4
@AR I think it may have more to do with manufacturing jobs being lost to lower cost competing countries like China. The places with only one major source of economic security, which got whittled away over decades, are now far worse off because they don’t have any viable alternatives to make money. They don’t want to move to the urban areas which have more diverse economic opportunities, so they’re stuck in decline.
@AR
Both are losers of the capitalists endgame. They just don't understand what and why. So they are easily manipulated to put the blame on brown people - and vote for the most xenophobic candidate they can find. In a world where manipulation has become a science, this problem will only get worse.
2
What you see (and vote for) is what you get. This is true for Trump and will be true for Johnson.
1
The world is a better place when we all work together. The more we go it alone the less well off we all are. Oh well, Britain had a great run for many years. To bad they have decided to withdraw into their cave.
4
Brexit was originally voted for by the people due to the same Russian interventions that were perpetrated on the US: thousands of fake social media accounts; fake supporters; identifying a group to hate (foreigners), and so on. This was enough to convince enough of the people that Brexit was a good thing, but they were duped.
Britain is in for a long decline, just as the US.
5
@MrDeepState: The only problem with your post is that it is false. The EU was created before there was an internet. The EU was created in 1950. Britain joined the EU in 1970. I was in college working on a degree in electronics from 68 to 72. There was no internet at that point so the Russians could not have been using it to con the brits into joining the EU. But don't let facts and truth get in the way of your beliefs.
3
Perhaps we can learn something from Britain as follows: When politicians refuse to accept the results of an election, vote th out in mass.
The British people voted for Brexit and the American people elected President Trump. Multiple attempts have been made to get rid of Trump but all have failed because they lacked gravitas.
Our leaders need to know they are accountable to us, not the other way around.
To those who say Britain may pay a price in terms of economic safety I bring out that phrase I believe is attributed to Benjamin Franklin, "Those who would trade essential liberties to purchase a little temporary ssfety deserve neither liberty of safety."
There is something to be said for being a sovereign independent people and I respect the British for choosing that.
10
@John The American people did not elect Trump. The Electoral College did.
19
@John A correction for you: A MINORITY of American people elected Trump due to the perverseness of the Electoral College. Don,t pretend that Trump is president because of the will of the people. He is not.
20
@John
The American people voted for Hilary Clinton, they got Donald Trump.
No alt facts allowed!
17
The working class in the Western Hemisphere, regardless of nationality, have a stunning propensity to vote against their own best interests. It was the working class who elected and returned Thatcher in the 1980’s to Britain’s continuing chagrin. In its defence, abandonment breeds desperation. If Johnson won, it is because Corbyn lost the traditional support of a beleaguered class. Democracy, however, requires sophistication and political astuteness, neither of which we workers tend to demonstrate over the apathy and laziness of voting for the other guy when we’re miffed. Not many workers can afford to be conservative, especially considering what its doctrine really means. The purpose of Brexit is to remove Britain from European oversight so that it can return to a feudal state where workers become vassals to austere masters in a massive wealth divide. Johnson’s claims of unity and inclusion are simply sophistry.
However, Johnson is not Thatcher, he’s not even a conservative. Tony Blair showed how one could play to an ideology while actually being committed to something else completely. He climbed to the top of the socialist Christmas tree only to ensconce himself as a neoconservative star. Johnson is doing the same, using the party route to facilitate his latent fascism which, in all fairness, is more closely related to conservatism than socialism is to neoconservativism. He unabashedly represents a social super class of ultra wealthy and they’re salivating right now.
24
@Marcus Brant The reason the Labour Party lost the election is because it was led by avowed, life-long Marxists, Mr Corbyn and Mr McDonnell. Their plans for the future would have bankrupted the nation and everyone could see that; the working class are not stupid.
My grandfather voted Labour all his days; he was a senior dockland trade union leader. Accused in the 1950s of being a communist, he was incandescent at the insult and sued, winning very substantial damages.
He represented then what the Labour Party was, but which has been taken over in the past 10-15 years by a communist regime that will never find enough support from voters of any class to be elected to govern. Even past Labour Party government ministers advised not to vote for a Corbyn government. That's it in a nutshell. There's nothing else to understand about today's result.
4
@Marcus Brant
The working class in the Western Hemisphere, regardless of nationality, have a stunning propensity to vote against their own best interests.
You could not be more wrong. The working class knows on which side its bread is buttered. The British working class , after seeing its jobs take over by Eastern Europeans, willing to work for less, and its
factories moving to Poland had enough
You should talk to workers before you write such elitist nonsense.
3
@MikeP GB was bankrupt before it joined the EU and will be bankrupt when it leaves the EU.
4
I'm living in the UK right now for work. I have dual citizenship.
I'm out of patience with people who voted for Brexit because they're suffering. There is a lot of suffering and it is 100% on the UK government, NOT the EU.
There is now going to be even more suffering. The UK government has never supported areas outside London. I'm an engineering researcher and have seen for myself that it's only because of EU funding that many parts of northern England now have basic roading, energy, and water facilities.
UK funding for science is lower as a proportion of GDP than almost other industrialized country. It's EU finding that has been propping up UK science. And it's research that provides new industry and jobs. My building is dead silent right now because nearly everyone has been let go now that grants aren't being renewed.
I have asthma and have not been able to get a doctor's appointment in the two year's I have lived in the UK thanks to Tory austerity policies. I have a few suicidal coworkers (exacerbated by job stress) who are prioritized for counseling and they face six-week waits for initial appointments.
The reality is though, that many people are not going to notice a worsening of conditions because they're already living in deprivation and misery.
I'll be leaving the UK. The future is very bleak indeed.
69
Very well said. Sadly.
13
@Ant
No country's economy can endlessly expand; a time comes sooner or later when it has to contract.
If engineering research that you and your colleagues want to do was desired by public or private funders, it would have been funded.
2
@Eva Thank you for demonstrating for everyone what we've been dealing with in the years since the referendum.
That is, standing by helplessly as people who don't have the first clue as to how the economy works, how research relates to industry, or what the UK contributes to the EU, wreak destruction and confusion.
This is not about expanding the economy. At the very least, it is about not being left behind to have an economy that depends on tourism (for example), where associated jobs tend to be low-paid and unstable. In the best case, it is about having an economy that is based on industries that provide good, stable jobs. In today's world, that means science and technology innovation. Companies do not take risks on innovations that don't work and that is where research is important. Established companies that don't work on improving and adapting their products quickly go out of business.
It is not only my institution, but many, where people's lives are being upended. It's the same in the banking industry, which has an even more fundamental role in the UK's economy and in Europe. Our research certainly is needed. Good grief; whatever device you used to type your comment probably used innovations from my institution.
8
Ironically enough, if I understand well, Napoleon won. It was Napoleon's dream to unite continental Europe. He failed because Prussia had long been on British payroll, the Tsar chose Britain, and Britain could finance an army, a war and Portugal in the Iberian peninsula. Moreover the British Navy ruled all over, including the Mediterranean.
These days are over: Britain, no longer a world empire, has little financial power. Prussian mentality, making war against all odds, and its attendant racism, has been annihilated. European powers know inter European war was mistaken and many European countries are grateful for the European Union to have enforced democracy. Many know that Britain was an obstacle to further European integration.
Great Britain will find out, soon enough, that it is not Singapore. First Singapore had an immense immigration (proportionally to its population), and secondly Singapore is tiny, in several ways. The UK needs the EU for roughly everything. Under a hard Brexit scenario, England would find itself besieged, all around, by an adversary 15 times its size.
That's not Boris' plan. He will try to facilitate a system where Britain will keep its UN Security Council seat, while its long term parent France leads Europe in close cooperation (Macron hinted that, while helping Boris).
It may work. An imitation Singapore Britain will help those, in France, who want more populism, while Europe projects more force (as Trump also wants). Merkel lost an ally.
The reality of a Johnson Government awaits us all.
It is worth noting that the voting swing from Labour to Conservative was greater the further from London. In Northumberland - some 300+ miles north - as many as 40% of those who voted made the change. In the Midlands around 25% did.
In London where we have some experience of a Johnson-led administration the swing was 2.5%.
Just as Johnson's much trumpeted and shiny new Brexit deal is actually one Theresa May rejected and improved upon. So too as London Mayor he managed to take credit for projects which were well under way when he took office. (eg Cycle hire and cycle lanes, underground expansion, the 2012 Olympics).
Further Londoners recognise outright lies such as his claim to have cut crime in the capita: In fact crime rates were falling when he took office, rising when he left.
Neighbourhood life was markedly diminished by the carte-blanche he gave property developers and the free pass he handed them to avoid their obligation to include social housing.
Quite why his closure of many fire stations, the removal of staff at Underground stations and the slashing police numbers were not highlighted in his campaign to become prime minister will remain a mystery forever one assumes.
29
@Paul Bridge
"The reality of a Johnson Government awaits us all."
Better than the reality of a Corbyn Government. There really was no choice.
4
I wonder if all those in traditionally Labor areas will be as happy when all the money EU has been pouring into their areas dries up - because you can be sure the Conservatives will not be funding more healthcare, more infrastructure, more manufacturing, more affordable housing, more services for the isolated rural elderly, etc. Scotland will make another bid to separate themselves, and may well be able to achieve it this time. Ireland may unite. That will leave "little England" and Wales. That being said, the EU is arrogant - run by bureaucrats that the average person cannot relate to. Only time will tell how England really fares under Brexit. At least the people can say they are getting what they voted for, regardless of the outcome.
15
Here in lies my surprise at Wales, a recipient of many EU grants. If they think under a conservative government this will continue, they have another thing coming.
I can’t say I’m surprised at the Tories winning, Corbyn led a disastrous campaign and in putting himself as leader first over the party, cost Labour (and their voters) an election.
The problem is not that politicians lie, it’s that voters know it and are OK with it.
6
“...agreeing to a closer alignment with the European Union would impose economic costs on Britain that would make it politically unpalatable for the Conservative Party”
The writer has this backwards.
The Confederation of British Industries (CBI) was strongly opposed to Brexit. The Bank of England forecast major disruption from no-deal Brexit, and most responsible analysts have predicted a smaller and weaker economy outside of the EU. Brexit is all cost and no benefit.
It would be more accurate to say that the economic cost of Brexit will allow the Tories to reimpose austerity, in somewhat the same way that tax cuts are used by U.S. Republicans to rationalize their attacks on Social Security and other public programs.
The economic costs are part of the Tory program. So is the authoritarian culture needed to impose them. For a certain segment of society this is highly palatable, and for the moment their star appears to be rising.
15
I sure hope the Democrats have been keeping a close eye on the election in Britain. The political winds have been blowing westward across the Atlantic for several years now.
If the Democrats are serious about changing the current trajectory of American politics, then they better decide soon who they want to be and what they want to do. And above all else they better find a candidate with a strong message and a likable character.
Otherwise we just got a glimpse of how 2020 will play itself out.
46
@AK The UK is a good lesson for the Dems. Middle England and middle America are not so different on social policy. Labour's far left proposals were roundly rejected and unless the Dems move more to the centre we're in for another term of Trump - just as they held their noses and voted for Johnson.
3
@AK "strong message and a likable character" - like out of a action film or reality television show.
And forget about affordable health care, housing, better water, air and schools... that's just too far to the left and kills jobs.
3
@AK we will have exceptional music soon...think 1980,1981....plus Ireland, we will be talking a lot about Ireland next year, that is going to be entertaining.it makes for great commenting. the pet shop boys told you they were going west sometimes ago, just had to pay attention.
It's a dark day for the UK. Johnson is a privileged Etonian who will be unaffected by any economic decline that is experienced after exit is complete. The British working class got hoodwinked by a man and Conservative party who used rhetoric that would appeal to them, but in the end, will greatly hurt them. Empire 2.0 this is not. Stay tuned for more chaos on both sides of the Atlantic.
207
@Birdygirl You are absolutely correct. But the question remains, why? And more importantly, what do these privileged Etonians and privileged Wartonians have in common? The answer should be obvious, a three class world economic order: the rich and powerful, those that serve the rich and powerful, and the remaining masses of suffering humanity.
25
@Paying Attention -- "Priviledged Etonians and priveleged Wartonians" is very clever, but the question is, what happened to the Working Class? Why did they feel that Corbyn was too leftist for them? I don't understand.
3
The idea that the 'new Tories' from erstwhile Labour seats in the North will have any kind of influence on government policies over the next five years is just another Brexit delusion. They will be used and abused, brutally. It's not for naught that the Tories are known as the Nasty Party.
But at least things are clear. England really does want out of the EU and we must adduce that she seeks a weakening of the EU perhaps even its destruction. That means she cannot be trusted. I say lock her out. And let's learn to live without her, even if that means seriously rearming on the continent - including Germany.
123
@David
Yes "New Tories" could be side lined but unlike the US a parliamentary system has an escape hatch. In a coalition government, the spurned party can call for a vote of no-confidence and if it can muster enough disgruntled coalition members to join other parties, they can overthrow the government. That is a strength and weakness. If US had a similar easy option, Trump would have been tossed over board long ago.
21
@PK2NYT Interesting analysis, but the UK government is not in coalition. So there is no escape hatch in UK now.
5
Rearming is necessary, because Russia is a huge threat to Europe. Of course, unlike in the USA, European leaders are wise to this.
12
No manufacturer will want its supply chain to include US (a declining empire whose commitments cannot be trusted from one presidential term to the next). No manufacturer will want to include UK in its supply chain if it can stay within a much larger developed market like EU. It's seems clear that EU will come out stronger from this.
33
@Charles The point that Ivan was making was that the strengthening of the EU would come at the expense of the US and UK. More trade with the stable partner.
11
Ivan, the company I work for does have US companies in the supply chain and usually their customer orientation and quality assurance is excellent. These companies have seen POTUSes come and go and their business has survived. They will also survive Trump. And which countries’ companies are more trustworthy? China? India? Russia? Brazil?
3
@Ivan
Lets just look at the sales of new cars in different markets:
UK: 2.4 million new cars
EU (excluding UK): 12.8 million new cars
US: 17.3 million new cars
China: 23.4 million new cars
If you were a car company wanting to set up production; you would do so either in China (the biggest market) or EU (a big market with stable and predictable trade agreements to China). The two countries led by xenophobic orange tariffsters would not be high on the list.
5
And those ". . . millions of former Labour voters whose vision of Brexit is far different from the Conservative establishment's" will get everything they deserve.
18
I think the problem was Corbyn.
This should be a wake-up call to Dems. We need an electable candidate.
87
@CW It should be a wake-up call to Dems, indeed.
Because the centrists fared even worse.
6
@Borstalboy
The two main parties are the Tories and Labour. Labour ran on a far left platform, and took a complete shellacking. And the UK is far more of a social-democrat country than the US. But Sanders supporters cling to the fantasy that he would have won if he had been the candidate last time.
4
They had a chance at decency. Corbyn would have delivered for these people, but the media gladly repeated the lies of a craven Conservative elite. They fell for it again and will suffer as jobs become more scarce and insecure and the torries continue to strip the social safety net the British working class fought for.
19
So you have the most dysfunctional Conservative Party in history and instead of a level headed sensible vision of the future, Labor comes out with a socialist manifesto wanting to nationalize major industries, free university, banning private schools, etc. does any of this sound familiar to us in the US? What happens? A massive rejection by the voters, with the crazy Conservatives winning one of the biggest majorities in history.
If we go down a similar journey, I would not be surprised if The Republicans won a second victory in 2020. I’d like to think we will learn from this but our leading candidates are trying to be more socialist than the other in promising to give away more free stuff.
And as for the ever anticipated youth vote, obviously they could not get off TicToc for long enough to know there was an election with major consequences going on. Sound familiar?
Wake up Democrats...In the face of crazy, people want sense and stability not a revolution in the other direction.
63
@Sipa111
Very funny bit. Yes, TikTok, the Chinese social media phenom has no other purpose but to distract the masses from the horrors taking place right under their noses.
A distracted populace is a malleable populace...
6
I hope the British get all their surgeries over before they sign a trade agreement with the US that brings in high drug prices and for-profit medical care. Along with the nasty garbage produced by agri-business in the US and called food. Also can anyone explain why it is OK for Britain to leave the EU but not Scotland to leave the UK or Ca leave the US if that's what the people want?
17
@Tibby Elgato
Very interesting question!
It is OK for Scotland to leave the UK as long as the people of Scotland vote for it in a UK Parliamentary (that includes Scottish participation) approved referendum; the legal or legitimate constitutional way.
You in California, as with us up here in Oregon, have no legal or constitutionally legitimate way to secede from the USA because the Constitution has purposely no tool or apparatus to allow it.
For the most part, the question of secession legitimacy was the main reason for the civil war!
If I were a Scot, I would want out of the UK and be an independent country once again.
52
In the absence of principle, this is what Democracy gets you.
6
The UK will revert to being the shabby place it was in the early 70s before it joined the EU, the "sick man of Europe." However, back then, the cost of living was low, housing was cheap and university tuition was free. The UK will now experience the worst of both worlds, it will be both physically run-down and ruinously expensive for anyone but the wealthy. The EU pays for the infrastructure in its member countries. The UK can kiss that goodbye. There are no upsides to leaving the EU. Even the right-wing governments in Eastern Europe know it would be economic suicide to leave.
196
@msd
Agreed, though it will be hard to beat Italy, the current "sick man of Europe".
6
@msd The UK subsidised the EU. Not the other way round.
10
@msd Wasn't Turkey the original 'Sick Man of Europe'?
2
The consequences of implementing Brexit will be borne by the Conservative Party for decades—and not in a good way.
Scotland finally will have full independence and membership in the EU.
Ireland will be a united and independent Republic for the first time
in more than 500 years and a member of the EU.
England and Wales will become isolated, impoverished and belligerent.
36
@all fear is rational The EU will not want a poor nation such as Scotland is. Westminster will not reliquish the Excise Duty from Scotch, neither will it give up the nuclear submarine base at Faslane.
The Republic of Ireland will not risk their tourist industry by taking on a bunch of Loyalist gorillas who will set bombs in Dublin.
3
Scotland is not going anywhere. The Conservative Parliament is not going to approve another referendum, at least for five more years. By then, if a future Labor Parliament approves a referendum, the UK will be out of EU for years. If Scotland gets independence, it will apply as an outsider no different than Bosnia or Albania. Scotland, without rest of UK, does not have the finances that meet EU standards. North Sea is not as profitable as it once was and the Scots spend a lot on social programs.
2
@all fear is rational:
Silly!
1) Both Northern Ireland and Scotland receive extremely generous subsidies from the UK (England). Scotland will become far more impoverished if independent. The EU will insist upon a hard border with England if Scotland gains admission to the EU which will destroy the Scottish economy.
2) Without the leftists from Scotland and Northern Ireland to contend with, the Conservatives will have an unassailable permanent majority in what would be left of Parliament. Yesterday = (conservatives 359, ALL other parties = 214; so Conservatives have a 145 seat MAJORITY if only England and Wales!
1
I do feel bad for the informed and the young. But there will be some poetry in those who voted leave living with the consequences of their decisions.
58
@Sarah - Wouldn't it be amazing if informed and young were the same group?
2
@Sarah:
Ah, the self-anointed, self-congratulatory smugness of the liberal arts major, pontificating life lessons to the unwashed masses, all while working off a $100k student loan burden serving up Venti half-caf soy double shot lattes (extra hot liquid but extra cold foam) one at a time.
@Sipa111 It seems they were the same group, under 45 voted overwhelming for Labor. People may not like Corbyn but his manifesto was quite something and in a very positive way for everyone.
1
This could mean the end of Great Britain, as both Scotland and Northern Ireland leave. I don't know about Wales. The consequences of the English vote on Brexit will echo for decades. I think the English are making a mistake, but they have the absolute right to do so. I wish we had a more astute President, because England, Ireland, and Scotland are going to need our help. They are our friends and it is the least we can do. Unfortunately I don't think our current President understands the concept of Friendship.
75
@Bruce1253 Don't talk about 'the English'. You have to talk about 'Britain'.
Do you talk about 'West Virginia' or 'Idaho'? No you talk about 'the USA'.
See my comment below. The 'Union' will not be dissolved. The EU does not want it.
1
@Loose hound
Funny. So you can force them to leave but they can’t leave you. I would say show respect and let them leave. After all that is what you are claiming is so important. To govern yourself, your nationality without an authority above you forcing you around.
If they want it. Let them go there way.
3
@Loose hound
The leader of the Scottish National Party has promised a new referendum on Scottish independence. The EU has no vote.
In Northern Ireland even the Unionists are now discussing a united Ireland. Brexit may mean the end of Great Britain.
5
This "landslide" is the result of a 1.2% shift of the vote to the Conservatives, since the last election. It illustrates the distortion of democracy that results from the "first past the post" electoral system. A similar shift in the opposite direction would have resulted in a "landslide" for Labour.
55
@Al It goes both ways, FPTP allowed the Liberals in Canada to return with a Minority Government, forcing them to work with the more progressive NDP and Bloc. Meanwhile....the Conservatives are effectively locked out of power.
The British have shown that they respect liberty, the right to property and tolerance of all religions. The Labour Party under Corbyn respected none of these. And we didn't want to live under foreign rule.
Nothing to do with Russians. Brexit is a British thing. And neither will the Union split. Scotland and Northern Ireland will remain British. The EU won't want a northern Greece with a begging bowl, and ROI won't want the possibility of bombs in Dublin set by Loyalist gorillas.
This is a pretty total victory.
15
@Loose hound
Tolerance of all religions? Have you not even paying attention to Farage and his ilk?
20
@Loose hound
Brexit is an English thing.
Soon Scotland is independent and Ireland united.
Little England will be highly dependent on the US and that won't be pretty.
Good luck with your total victory.
5
@Loose hound Tolerance? Even for women who look like letter boxes?
3
Sounds like Trump and just as incompetent. This will marginalize Britain more than the 20th century wars.
37
@Charles Check in a year. Outside of that, Britain is not the U.S. and its 20th century was the end of the empire.
1
“ Still, while Mr. Johnson made it clear what he is against, he has not clarified exactly what he is for when it comes to Brexit. “We don’t know what he wants, which is remarkable after such a hard-fought election,” said Anand Menon, a professor of European politics at King’s College London.”
And that, folks, is the smoke and mirrors exercise that has been the hallmark of Brexit. No one knows what it means, and how it shakes out will be largely seen only after implementation. Nigel Farage of course knows what it means to him... getting rid of brown people.
92
@Dan
Mr. Johnson will know exactly what he is for, just as soon and Putin tells him.
6
Britain is in for a world of hurt.
115
So to summarize: the election landslide didn't really happen, as such; in fact it was really a defeat in disguise (an accident waiting-to-happen, if you will), according to a bunch of people smarter than voters, some of whom are so dumb they voted against their interests and/or inexplicably "lent" their votes to their natural enemy. Really?
25
"Conservatives and other pro-Brexit parties won only 46 percent"
So they have the same democracy problems we have. A huge victory can be won even when the popular vote tally is clearly in the other direction. Redrawing the districts to cement in that advantage seem to be the next step. I was inclined to think that in this election the voters chose Brexit - but that is clearly not the case.
49
@Ivan: In this case, if the vote had been a referendum on Brexit, Brexit would have lost, but it was a vote for political leaders... and the Brexit opponents weren't all in one party... so, yes, it's a democracy problem. Interesting, because sometimes you hear it suggested that all our problems would be solved if we had a parliamentary system like Britain's. But, not all of them, apparently.
6
@Ivan Very few countries (France comes to mind) don't have this problem. Trudeau won his election in Canada with 32% of the vote. The opposition conservatives actually won 33% of the vote, but due to the way districts are drawn, won fewer parliamentary seats than Trudeau's liberals.
5
For Britain, I don’t know, and/or I shouldn’t say.
But for the rest of Europe this is good news. It would not be good to be in a relationship with such a hesitant partner.
62
@David Martin
Ireland will leave the UK and the UK will lose its most viable economy. The Scots will not be far behind. The Conservatives will try and dismantle all of the public services in order to compensate and it will be a downward spiral. You get the government that you vote for.
13
@David Martin
A partner to whom the EU had to concede so mush to keep them in. The EU will ultimately be better off without the U.K. unless they all fall to white nationalists.
4
@Steve
Ireland is not part of the UK.
Northern Ireland is part of the UK.
6
For what its worth this is my take away on the British election that may or may not be relevant to the American situation:.
The youth vote didn't materialize as a block in support of Labour
The Labour manifesto offerings weren't credible with give-aways worth billions of pounds.
Brexit wasn't that important an issue to most voters other than wanting it to go away.
Social Media had no impact and is a waste of money
Based on the reporting in the New York Times the American view of British society is about fifty years out of date
20
@AngloSaxon
Thank you. Your observation has much relevance to the US situation: the youth vote didn't materialize, offerings worth billions of pounds weren't credible, social media had no impact. The press coverage we got from the Times and other sources was at complete variance from the results of the election which were to us a big surprise.
6
@AngloSaxon - Actually its more likely that the youth vote could not get of social media for long enough to understand that their was an election with serious consequences in the offing. Relying on the youth vote for anything is a fools errand.
1
Whichever way it is sold fact is the Conservatives only got 43.6% of the votes - not even half. This leaves the UK dangerously divided. Crazy that many people appear to have voted overwhelming on a single issue: Brexit, to the detriment of all the other important issues that will affect their lives, well-being and future.
It's not as if there are not countless examples of the self-destructive and even dangerous consequences of voting for instant self-gratification on one issue (ignoring all others) throughout history. The Brexit vote should have remained a completely separate issue. This is disingenuous, egregious and underhanded politics at its finest. Let the hunger games proceed!
21
To judge by the final tally, "Brexit" is a gigantic misnomer. The British, in the aggregate, to remain in the EU. It was the English who voted Conservative.
12
« Fortified with a 79-seat majority, ... ». I don’t know where this figure has come from. The majority is 39 seats. Still solid but not Thatcher numbers.
6
@Théo
The 80 seat majority is the total above the combined number of seats won by the other parties.
To form a government, a party needs 326 seats out of the 650 available: 50% + 1 seat.
So the Johnson government obtained (as with the Electoral College delegates here) the minimum seats required to form a government plus an extra 39 seats for good measure.
The Opposition (of which Labour has the most seats) managed only 285 seats.
So the Johnson government should be able to put through its agenda based on the people's democratic approval with minority opposition.
4
Reagan Democrats-by-the-Thames are likely to be just as disappointed as the U.S. versions.
13
I think of Boris as a smart Trump as opposed to our dumb Trump. His ability to manuever his way from a Parliamentary minority to a large majority is measure of his real talent. As a smart Trump he will continue lie and use divisive tactics to enhance his power. He will not feel he has to adhere to any political philosophy or ethical standards. That means he will do what he feels he has to to appease the former Labor voters who voted Tory. He will also not make the same incredible blunders dump Trump has made that led to his impeachment. I actually think a smart Trump is much more dangerous than a dumb Trump because smart Trump will not sabatoge himself and will ultimately be able to wield dictatorial powers. The British parliamentory system does not have even the limited checks and balances of the U.S. system.
7
No. Johnson will do nothing for the former Labour voters who voted Conservative on this occasion. He and his party have contempt for those people. I only hope those duped can afford the health insurance which will be introduced under Johnson over the coming years. Many of them are already on the breadline, so that’s unlikely. Goodbye, National Health Service. It was nice knowing you.
The UK used to be The Beatles.
Now, it’s Herman’s Hermits.
26
' has drawn in millions of former Labour voters whose vision of Brexit is far different from the Conservative establishment’s.'
First, you wish. He will get the Brexit done and that is the only things that matter, nuances aside. All the losers yesterday wanted to nix Brexit but instead they got nixed. Deservedly!
Second, what exactly is the voter's version is not something any one knows. Hopefully, the clownish Boris will come up with something palatable, he is not far from it anyway, and it will get passed as 'finally over with it', the details notwithstanding. And the author, as well as the other sore remainers, can further engage into discussing details, ad infinitum.
2
@ss
Except of course for the remainders in Ulster and Scotland. The results of voting in Ulster is nothing short of great news for Irish unity. And for Scottish independence. It doesn’t mean it won’t be messy; most efforts to toss out occupiers are.
4
I am an Ameropean — an American raised in Europe — who lived and worked in London for seven years. My grandparents are buried in Sussex, the rest of my ancestors all over the British Isles. I moved there in 2002 partially in reaction to George W's presidency, when he said that if you weren't with him you were against him; I am no conservative, certainly not in the American sense of the term.
It was so difficult for me to do business in the U.K., so expensive, so dysfunctional, like the entire country had a chronic hangover from a raging drinking problem. The Recession was the final straw; I cut my enormous losses, packed up and went back to NYC.
Honestly, something has to unblock the gridlock, and sometimes it takes a conservative government to do that, in any country that experiences lengthy periods of corrosive stagnation. I agree with other commenters here: Tories are not Republicans, and Johnson is no Trump. What I always keep in mind is that he was once president of the Oxford Union, which not only requires superlative wit, brilliance, critical thinking and erudition, but also likely the best debating skills in the world. This is probably going to sound outrageous to liberals on both sides of the Atlantic, but I believe Johnson is Churchill 2.0, which is what a Global Britain 2.0 is going to need if it stands a fighting chance.
I feel more optimistic about Britain's future now than I did when Blair was swept into power, and that's saying a lot.
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@James
It’s not outrageous to hear it (we could all hope), but I don’t think it will be that dramatic a mimicry or that decisive a victory.
3
@James
Anyone who has listened to Boris Johnson would laugh at that: "(Boris) Johnson is (Winston) Churchill 2.0"
Akin to: "Donald Trump is General George S. Patton 2.0"
8
@James If you can somehow get access, read the article "How Oxford university shaped Brexit — and Britain’s next prime minister" by Simon Kuper in the Financial Times. Having been president of the Oxford Union doesn't sound to have been such a sterling credential. In an essay written by Boris Johnson he put down the secret to success of an aspiring politician at Oxford:
Johnson advised aspiring student politicians to assemble “a disciplined and deluded collection of stooges” to get out the vote.
“The tragedy of the stooge is that . . . he wants so much to believe that his relationship with the candidate is special that he shuts out the truth. The terrible art of the candidate is to coddle the self-deception of the stooge.”
Does that sound Churchillian?
6
Brexit is still bad as I and 52% of my fellow electors maintain. We’ll have to see what happens now but the Union can kiss goodbye to Northern Ireland and Scotland. And I don’t blame them.
171
I hope that Boris Johnson will use his new political capital to put another Brexit vote on the ballot.
Just as the political winds have changed direction towards Boris Johnson those same winds may point towards Britain remaining in the European Union.
It would be better for Britain to remain in the European Union.
Staying in the European Union would be a stick in the eye of Putin whose propaganda machine started all the Brexit trouble in Britain to begin with.
7
@S Butler
the vote yesterday was a referendum, hence Tories won in traditional labor areas. The folks who voted remain and not firm on Brexit, lost.
5
@Gyns D: Except, there wasn't one party to vote for, to register an anti Brexit vote. Apparently, if it had been a referendum on Brexit, Brexit would have lost. But this wasn't a simple referendum.
Corbyn was going up against huge concentrations of wealth, an opposition party, and a military/intelligence bureaucracy not enamored with the idea of a principled left leader.
Boris and Brexit will be a disaster for Britain.
But, boy, do they DESERVE it.
20
@Chris
Half of all British Jews said they'd seriously consider leaving the U.K. forever if Corbyn won. His overwhelming loss in yesterday's election is, then, above all a manifestation of across-the-board repudiation of the institutionalized anti-Semitism of the modern Labour Party, whose core consists of die-hard Trotskyites and long-in-the-tooth Marxists.
1
Germany and Japan have GDP %s of ~20% for mfg, and ~4% for finance. While the USA and UK run GDP %s of ~10% for mfg, and ~8% for finance.
Correspondingly, the impact and impression of "Globalization" is quite different in the US and UK, where it is more associated with the rise of finance and outsourcing and decline of "heartlands", compared to Germany and Japan where it is seen also(*) as an opportunity to maintain jobs through exports, but not a boon for finance.
(* "also", because the same pull of jobs towards low labor cost countries exists just as in the US and UK, but DE and JP are making more of an effort to counteract that through investment in better mfg.)
Theory (based on above admittedly anecdotal evidence): To some extent the financial sector and the mfg sector are competing for investment resources.
The UK "heartland" vote for Johnson would seem to indicate some economic expectations about investment in manufacturing, which if the above "Theory" is true, will inevitably squeeze resources from the finance sector (relative to the present).
Of course, maybe the above Theory is wrong and mfg and finance can both win. They can certainly both lose.
1
@Craig H.
Japan and Germany have different organizational arrangements that give labor in large mfg firms more power. (Germany has labor representation on boards of directors and Japan has tenure, which has a similar affect on corporate strategy).
All modern countries operate on the shareholder primacy rule. But the bias towards finance & mgt in Anglo-Saxon nations means that they pursue ROI startegies which benefit executives at the expense of workers. In Japan and Germany, they pursue market share growth strategies, and as it happens, stock markets put a premium on market share - so it serves the purpose of investors (long term).
You can see the effect in the automobile industry. American manufacturers quit making cars in favor of SUVs and Trucks because of high ROI while the Germans and Japanese would never abandon that much market share in such important market segments - a hiccup in the price of oil can radically shift market preferences overnight. The American strategy is riskier.
So the point is, Germany and Japan fight hard to maintain market share against all comers, including 3rd world entrants. Americans want to abandon markets at the first sine of decline in ROI.
3
@Craig H.
Donald Trump was supposed to trumpet in a miraculous new age of American manufacturing.
Practically every plant he touted has now shut down. Others never materialized. US manufacturers - AFTER their big US tax breaks - continue to move plants and jobs overseas.
The major structural changes of Trump World - the Tax GiveBack - boosted profits, stocks, income inequality.
And Warren just wants to grab all that money back toward what end? For the US government to "fix" things?
We trust Big Dem Ideas about as much as BIG GOP Ideas...
@BMWC, Yeah, right. American Pharma can’t wait for trade negotiations with England and Wales. The agreements would include the end of price controls on drugs, a pharma wish. Can the NHS survive that?
16
Taher - I’m sorry, but I don’t quite think you “get” the NHS or how both access to new/expensive drugs and underlying pharma prices are negotiated by the NHS.
There are all sorts of problems with the NHS, most obviously on the supply constraints (aka “waiting lists”) in a demand-elastic system. But on drug access and pharma prices the NHS validation and procurement process “merely” brings efficient purchasing economies of scale together with tightly-managed access based not only on clinical need but also on the cost-effectiveness of treatment and pharma costs - and does so in a single (and therefore powerful) point of nevitiation for 60m users (aka “patients”.)
US pharma corporates may huff and puff about the prices the NHS obtain for drugs it is willing to agree represent cost-efficient treatment through its NICE/procurement structure, but in fact wherever you find yourself on the US spectrum of reform of the US healthcare “system” (aka “insanity” to the rest of the civilised world, no offence intended), you should want to introduce powerful procurement negotiation and regulation-based criteria for treatment cost-effectiveness. US healthcare consumers (aka “patients” again) should be fighting to develop similar market leveraged over rampant US pharma and insurance providers as the UK’s individualistic model already provides.
US healthcare and pharma: heal thyself! (Don’t insist on trying to make UK health emulate most egregious features of US structure.)
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@Adrian
All of that is not what will happen. Instead, the way NHS works notwithstanding, Trump is going to shove the scrapping of price controls down Boris’ throat as the price of a US/UK trade deal.
4
@Adrian
This NHS as you know, will be gone soon.
The UK will be so desperate for any trade deal that they have to give up everything.
Sorry folks, you wanted to be independent from the horrible EU now you can get to taste a little reality.
3
I'm an American living in the UK
I'm quite frankly very disappointed with all the confident Brexit forecasting I've been hearing for the last three years.
Brexit has no historical precedent.
We really have virtually no idea how it will unfold and what the UK will look like after it's left the EC.
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@John
In America we've been told it is to be utter catastrophe which we now await to unfold. However, our news coverage is deeply imbued with opinion.
5
@blgreenie
Make that "new coverage...deeply imbued with left-leaning opinion."
5
Autocracy in action, democracy be damned. Those of us seeking prudence (doing what's right, however hard) may be disappointed but never surprised at human's oversupply of stupidity. And the price may be steeper that imagined even by the substandard expectations in progress.
21
looking at the British market post vote industrial stocks doing poorly but banks lifting overall market. if an indicator not good indication for robust growth. like Trump rally debt in Britain likely to rise. Britain leaving EU with no deal really bad. Trump economy likely to hit skids because based on debt and world of unusually low interest rates. this policy has NEVER been able to sustain a strong economy. best example is 1929. history should be a guide！
6
There's a bit of "tail wags dog" in this article, in that what Johnson wants or doesn't want is balanced against what the EU is prepared to offer given that it has the interests of 27 countries to consider.
The initial response of the EU is that they are happy that the UK can finally, after three years, be in a position to make a decision on Brexit. Expecting that it will be in effect in January the next hurdle is the one year window for negotiations.
As it stands, negotiations would have to be finalized by about June to enable all EU countries to vote up or down. Practically, that means that the UK/EU could negotiate a bare-bones Free Trade Agreement by June leaving other important issues for later. If that fails then there would be a hard exit leaving the UK and EU to trade under WTO arrangements which terrifies UK business.
If the end of year deadline is extended, which Johnson swore not to do, then this drama could go on for years. The EU can live with that but can the UK?
And there is the question of UK meanwhile dismembering as Scotland possibly disengages and N. Ireland and Ireland engage.
In the end this could be the beginning of the end for the UK and a return to Little England with Singapore on the Thames ambitions.
42
@GerardM:
You forgot to mention how badly the EU NEEDS both the 46.8 Billion Euro injection of funds from the UK upon completion of Brexit AND the annual 10.8 Billion net UK contribution required to keep the EU afloat by subsidies to the weaker members. Those subsidies will now come from Germany and France.
2
Bojo's Brexit accomplishes one important thing: it removes the Irish border problem, and thus the threat from US congressmen (bi-partisan, no less) to thwart a trade deal with the US. Next step is not the EU trade agreement, it's the US-UK deal, which will bolster the Tory effort to dismantle the NHS they have been starving for 10 years, diminish environmental and other regulations, and end up with a further trade deficit. Then, aligned as Little America, they will confront the EU. Oh, and re-establish the glory of the British Empire while they're at it.
23
"In winning this election, we have won votes and the trust of people," not really. Scotland elected Scottish Nationalists to 48 of 49 of their seats showing that they still want independence, and "Irish nationalists won more seats in Westminster than the pro-Britain unionists of Northern Ireland did." That's not a lot of trust.
77
@Stephen typo: 48 of 59 seats
8
I don't really understand why the former Labour voters, who claim to want steady jobs and better working conditions, expect to obtain those things by voting for Boris Johnson's Conservative party. Aren't they going to be the population most negatively affected by brexit trade problems?
130
@Glassyeyed it sounds quite familiar does it not?
28
@Glassyeyed Why do American farmers support Trump? It's not about what's best for them, it's about appealing to their hatred of everyone else.
168
@Glassyeyed This is the problem with us progressive Democrats. We really don't understand why other people don't think the way we do. There are some really good op-eds in the Guardian today dissecting Labour's crushing defeat and why the Conservatives won in century old working class strongholds and its much the same reason that so many working class people in the US voted for Trump. Threat to cultural identity seems to matter much more what the left is offering
26
Brexit, like Trump in the US, protests in France, the rise of the right-wing nationalists in Europe and the US, dictators in Eastern Europe, growing tribalism and anger, successful Russian and Chinese incursions on economic and political fronts--are all symptoms (as opposed to causes) of something drastically wrong with our democratic/capitalist system. Out-of-control social and economic inequality are, I would suggest, a major part of the problem. We should look to countries such as Finland, Sweden, Denmark, etc. which are pro-business and yet provide a strong social safety net. Businesses there seem to understand that their most important asset are employees.
253
@Mark Schannon - Which employees, the ones in the west that make 10x that of those in the far east? CEO's and boardrooms will always follow the money wherever it leads, at whatever social and environmental cost. If they can get it done cheaper elsewhere they will - and become rich doing it. We have been discarding skilled employees here for 50 years.
10
@Mark Schannon
Nailed it.
7
Thatcher won a landslide general election in 1987 and was forced out three years later. Likewise, I fear that this « clear » election result is hiding a deep instability in the country. Johnson will soon have to contend with Scottish and Northern Ireland break-away risks, of which most of the electorate has not paid attention to, and have to clarify whether or not he remains a free trade politician at heart, very very far from his new core of former labour voters or a social protector and re-distributionist.
If this does not go as planned, Boris may be tempted to scapegoats immigrants and minorities, as is often the case when leaders can’t make things magically work. I bet that Boris will not see his 4 years mandate through.
96
Her own party forced her out. The Conservatives held power for another five years.
1
After dithering for the past three years on leaving the European Union, the election is a strong affirmation for leaving the Union. Globalization, whether it is being part of the EU, NAFTA or allowing China into WTO has hurt the working class in the developed economies. The only winners of globalization have been the corporations and the investors.
33
@Zor
And the working class folks in the UK will discover that Raab and his cronies will still pursue the money after Brexit. Those working class folks will still be hurting AND isolated. They will discharge Mr. Johnson (I liked his book about Churchill), and discover that it is too late to save themselves from becoming Kolkata-on-the-Thames.
15
@Zor
With 52% of votes cast in favor of no- or rethink- Brexit parties (vs. 46% for pro-brexit parties) I don't see a strong affirmation of anything but gerrymandering.
8
@Dan
"Kolkata-on-the-Thames"....Progressives using Trumpian verbiage.
This is a win for the people of Great Britain. Democracy has spoken and the will of the people has been heard. Bravo!
7
@Jay "Indeed, parties that either oppose Brexit or want to rethink Britain’s departure won 52 percent of the total votes cast, while the Conservatives and other pro-Brexit parties won only 46 percent."
As in America, where the loser of the popular vote took power, the will of the British people has been thwarted by a faulty system. Democracy has failed.
27
@Jay They will have to live with the result...
2
@Jay And the lines for welfare explode as manufacturers either move to the EU or go bankrupt. Well, done "UK." (soon to be just Little England, as Scotland secedes to join the EU, Ireland unites as one within the EU, and Wales contemplates the same course. )
As you say, "Bravo!"
3
How sad for Britain, in a way. I find it very hard to see how they will be able to avoid real economic hardships. Such a comedown for the “former empire. Surely nobody believes Britain can negotiate any sensible trade deal with Trump in coming months??!!
Will be interesting to see what happens with Scottish and/or Welsh independence— let alone the Northern Ireland border. As to the latter, maybe they can declare the Republic of Ireland plus N Ireland to be the middle of the English Channel?
27
@Kathy The fact that a majority of the British, the English most precisely, still identify has a "former great empire" and have not moved on to a late 20th century, let along 21st identity, with a realistic perspective of their potential place in the world, is what got them into this situation in the first place.
Brexit and a vote for the Conservatives in this particular election is a vote for some unspecified previous time when Britain was wonderful. In actuality, the UK's post-WWII success only arrived when they joined the EU. A great majority on the island are delusional. The Brexiters are now (since yesterday) big fish in a small pond. The world will quickly make appetizers of them.
1