I've seen the Black Israelites and found them loud, sometimes annoying and mostly comical. They usually pick a small phrase from the bible and use it to say that the white man is the devil and they are the real Jewish people even though it has nothing to do with what was written. Although they are definitely anti-white and anti-semitic I've never seen them to be violent at all. Even when I told them off and asked them if they have to wait for Halloween to get their ridiculous costumes, they got upset but never put their hands on me. So while I disagree with all their views, we shouldn't rush to judgement and say that the Black Israelites did this because they don't have a history of violence as far as I've seen, just lots of misinformed trash talk. One of the murderers was previously affiliated but might not have been with that group for a long time.
The Covington Catholic high school boys were targeted by the Black Hebrew Israelites back in January after attending a march in Washington. They were harassed and were subjected to racial slurs but there was little reporting about this incident. They do not like white people regardless of religion. They are racists.
15
Don't believe everything you hear in the news people.
1
Why are there no pictures of the two killers?
8
What is the relationship between the Black Hebrew Israelites and Reverend Farrakhan?
8
Why are the victims in the Kosher market referred to as bystanders? It appears they were targeted by these hateful people for being Jews or working at the store
13
The New York Times seems to struggle with stories outside its narrative.
Why are the victims inside the Kosher market referred to as “bystanders”? They were specifically targeted victims of anti-Semitic violence who were murdered by the two perpetrators.
Why is this not categorized as “Black Supremacist” terror? One killer had posted anti-Semitic and anti-police rants online, had a manifesto in the truck, and had specifically targeted the Kosher market. The NYT calls out white supremacy on a lot less. The Black Hebrew Israelites are a racist hate group.
15
Why is there no bio regarding Miguel Douglas Rodriguez? I'm sure he had a family and a life too.
His death is tragic and his loss should also be acknowledged in this article.
8
Well, the murderers apparently were members of the Black Hebrew Israelites who have a history aggressive proselytizing non-believers. At least according to the Washington Post, the group considers white people to be "cursed Edomites." Their views on Semitic Jews appears to be worrisome enough that the Southern Poverty Law Center considers them a "hate group."
So, if they are active members of the Black Hebrew Israelites, does that make them or the group terrorists or "fighters?"
On such semantics are people branded.
84
@TDurk What labels them terrorists and not fighters is their killing of a police offer without cause (except because they were apparently wanted to avoid capture) and then massacring innocents in a targeted spot.
How can we stop all the carnage that is going on around the world? It causes me to weep.
11
They're terrorists. Anyone involved with the group should be jailed, unless they want to recant all involvement. I don't think there's any reason to brand them though, but homicidal terrorism cannot be tolerated.
28
@TDurk They just MURDERED innocent people. If that's not enough to be labeled terrorists, what is?
9
The effort of some readers to blame either the "far right" or the "far left" for crimes like this is beside the point.
Our species has reached a stage in its evolution where it either renounces violence and endures, or clings to it and ultimately eradicates itself. Babies aren't born violent; they're as innocent as the child currently celebrated in manger scenes everywhere. I invoke that child not to advance any religious creed but to remind us all that incidents like the Jersey City disgrace can be avoided only by teaching kindness and empathy to heal broken hearts. Cruelty precedes political affiliation.
So horrible. What are we going to do?! One thing I'm left with... I wonder if folks gathered to mourn Mr. Gonzalez?
4
I believe the Black Israelite ideology is the result of lay people with limited formal education, trying to find an identity for themselves in the religious texts they know. Despite a half century of Black and African studies being mainstreamed, the average Black child coming out of secondary school gets no meaningful understanding of African American history and African history. This leads people hungry for meaning who are susceptible to belief systems that place them at the center of the religious discourse they know. Claims that groups make of secret knowledge make them all the more attractive to those looking for meaning and a sense of importance for those like him or her. Furthermore, skepticism of academia and the mainstream culture make such claims seductive.
For those who have lost loved ones, what I have written may seem like nothing or even an excuse, but hateful beliefs are not random. If they are to be be overcome, they have to be analyzed and understood.
7
I can honestly say this was a Trumped up controversy with an absolute appearance of petty ignorant pandering by a man who has always identified with the unfortunately under educated. He relishes love by those who hate to make himself feel better as the Lynch Mob leader that he is. Are they setting up the foundations of a West Bank Real Estate venture?
But more to the point; not many people are of ethnic purity, but incredibly diverse with only superficial differences that the uneducated cannot grasp because of a lack of knowledge.
I have a dream for a new world in which transportation and love among all people will become one people who can all claim to be the same who then seek to nurture their own character to stand out instead of demeaning others.
Education for all should be the focus, not gutter politics as is so employed by this administration.
2
I had never heard of Black Hebrew before today. What a terrible introduction! What on earth has happened to us as a society? Where has sanity, tolerance, responsibility, and celebrating our differences gone? I've got a news flash for all you special people who do think they have all the right answers! YOU DON"T!!!
We have to share this small earth with all its' inhabitants. The color of your skin, your level of education, the religion you practice, or the money you earn does not elevate you above anyone else. We all put our pants on one leg at a time. We all feel pain, love and loss. Diversity is one of our greatest gifts. The world would be a truly boring place if we were all the same.
These senseless acts of violence seem to be an accepted daily occurrence and need to stop! Their effects are cumulative and make us all suspicious of each other. I don't pretend to have the answers to any of this but I know it has to start with our respect for each other. We are better than this!
5
@Deb
Remember the incident at the Lincoln Memorial involving the Covington school students? The real troublemakers were a group of Black Israelites who were getting into everyone's faces.
10
@Deb
You will recall this group as the instigators in the Covington HS affair
8
It is a mistake to focus on the shooters' ideology. We shan't find the answers there. This horrible incident is another symptom of a deeper problem that crosses lines of religion, ethnicity and race. It is driven by the same factors that lead to school shootings and the recent military base attacks. This is what happens when a society fosters alienation, isolation and despair while offering easy access to firearms.
10
@Facts Matter no. Guns kill. Ideas do not kill without weapons
@The F.A.D. You are absolutely right!
First time I ever hear about this group. I don’t understand them should we understand them?
Whose bullets killed the bystanders?
@Rhporter David Anderson and his sidekick, the attackers, shot the "bystanders". They were actually their targets.
8
@Rhporter
I suspect the police may have shot the bystanders during the gun battle and that is why this story about the Hebrew Israelites was concocted. Black Hebrew Israelites is a self-serving name created by the media. This would be the second time in as many weeks that innocent people were killed by the police in Hollywood-style gun battles.
1
Black Hebrew Nationalists. Jeez, what next? We should change our national motto to "They're All Here Under the Big Top".
2
Why is The Times calling the people killed in the store “bystanders”? They were targets, albeit at random.
19
At random?
Targets are targeted. The assailants aimed at them. What's random?
Jeez, and I'm not even Jewish.
1
Call out the squad for their anti-semitism, not Trump.
24
Does anyone else remember the last time the Black Hebrew Israelites popped up in a major news story? A little less than a year ago they were revealed to be the true instigators of hatred, bigotry, tension and fear in the aftermath of the Covington Catholic High school incident. Does anyone else remember seeing the video of them repeatedly shouting crude and hateful anti-gay, anti-white epithets at the high school children? Does anyone else remember the video of them also yelling bigoted stereotypes at the Native Americans present? This revelation completely destroyed the viral narrative being pushed against the ‘racist’ high school kids, hence it was not reported as loudly as it should have been. However there was at least one article written by John Eligon here in this paper in which he fawns over the group, quoting members, detailing their beliefs, all but entirely dismissing their designation as a hate group by the SPLC. He ended the article by saying, "To many black people, Hebrew Israelites are a harmless part of their communities… ...More alarming to many African Americans, he said, is “seeing a white guy in a ‘Make America Great Again’ hat.”
Now my final question: is anyone surprised that this paper has neglected to make any reference to their connection to Covington in today’s article?
39
@Dan the Eligon article was on 01/23/19.
Troll me if you want,, however this current administration under trump is full of hate, bigotry. Last night the rally was full of identifying the enemies who are anyone Trump decides to hate today.
GOP politicians who stand for nothing and do nothing but lie to the public and work hard to sow the seeds of bigotry. Cutting off Food stamps is a perfect example of hate
This madness will not stop till we begin to listen to each other, to understand, pass policies that incorporate everyone and leave no on behind.
I am deeply saddened by all the individuals who were murdered yesterday in Jersey City and all across this country daily for no good reason. We have to do better otherwise we wont have to worry about climate change, we will kill ourselves and there will be no rich people who will be able to hid from the violence.. Murder is an equal opportunity , murder by deranged individuals can happen on a street corner or as we say just because.
12
America, we are in a bad place.
The President uses the immense powers of his office to spew vitriol against the military generals who like to uphold our values, against his inspector generals who speak truth to power, and against courageous women and men in our government services. He regularly disparages Hispanics and blacks.
The people watch, learn and absorb Trump's "winning" tactics - and adopt them. Lacking the powers of the Presidency, they make do with guns and target their perceived enemies just as the President is doing.
We need a better President - a human being who recognizes right from wrong and knows the difference between Satan and God. A President who holds himself to a higher standard that we can all mimic without apologies.
8
@Rudran you have terminal TDS.
20
@Rudran But so far, he's the only one who is willing to try to protect our borders. How can we be a nation without borders?
11
In Which diagnostic manual is TDS acknowledged. Would love to reference the science behind your diagnosis.
2
Most unfortunately, most of the perpetrators of these types of crimes occurring all over the US and elsewhere are previously "known" to law enforcement and are protected by the "constitution" of their various constituencies. A very sad price to pay for "western" freedom.
3
any source for your assertion?
"Detective Joseph Seals approached the two assailants, who were inside a U-Haul van near a cemetery, because the van had been linked to a homicide over the weekend, according to the law enforcement official."
It is plausible to suggest that Detective Seals' decision to engage at the cemetery without backup and a firm perimeter in place triggered the events that followed.
Once Seals was murdered the shooters may have decided the tipping point was reached and the following events were set in motion.
The mayhem did nor begin at the store, it began at the cemetery, with the probable intervention of Detective Seals.
If we want to really protect officers we must dispassionately observe the facts and go where they lead.
Where they lead may not be popular nor pleasant to consider.
1
Victim blaming.
16
@Eric Lamar
Yeah, you’re right. He should have just let the murder suspects go on about their business. Hope to find them another day.
5
I pray for the victims. We all go into bodegas and delis. It could have easily been any of us. What a shame.
2
Well, true.
And our risk is multiplied when we go not to bodegas or delis but to kosher supermarkets.
14
Not in the least bit surprised, this "civil war" will be fought on the fringes. This is the price paid for Trump incivility. All kinds of nuts now have permission to act. This is going to get so much worse.
8
@Estelle Let's not forget Obama telling the people of South America that if socialism works for them then keep it. Well, they kept it and are now storming our borders because of the results. I think any of "The Squad" at least matches Trump in incivility, especially Omar with her "some people did something comment." Trump wants to protect our borders. It just happens that the people storming our borders illegally are brown and black. How would they feel if we put the practice in reverse and just pulled our borders south to the end of Cape Horn and East to Mauritania (and even into the Middle East)?
15
You need to watch Schiff and Nadler. They are not very civil either. I miss President Obama and Congressman Cummings. They were civil.
3
@ Allison
There aren't any "socialist" governments in Central America, just corrupt capitalist ones......what nonsense you speak.
2
I find it disturbing that so many commentators have to add caveats to their condemnation of the assailants, caveats that would not be included if these men were white and associated with a white supremacist group.
42
@RT Hunter If they had been white, that would have been reported immediately. Since they were black, it took a day to report that.
38
the continuous, senseless killing of innocent and productive citizens is going to destroy this country.
6
These were the same people who were viciously harassing the Catholic school boys in Washington earlier this year.
33
Is that what happened? The mainline media had it as if the boys were harassing everyone- mainly because they wore Trump hats. Shines a different light on the Washington DC incident.
20
The investigators mentioned in the report may ultimately decide differently. But to me, this heinous act and taking of innocent lives sound like both a hate crime and domestic terrorism. More families and another community in mourning.
8
"The violent rampage on Tuesday took place largely at a kosher supermarket where three bystanders were killed."
Based on everything else I'm reading here these were not bystanders, they were actually targets. There's a big difference
27
Trump has used hate of minority groups has a political tool to get votes and it has been quite successful, but it comes at a cost of stirring up hate in some people who go on to commit acts of violence against members of minority groups. While Trump cannot be linked to any specific attack he has added to an atmosphere of hate in the US, and the number of hate crimes has increased since he took office as have the number of hate groups identified by the Southern Poverty Law Center. Advocating tolerance may not get as many votes as spewing hate but it leads to a more peaceful society and one where everyone feels welcome and like a first class citizen. That would seem to be an important goal based on the ideals of the US..
1
The Times ran an article a while back about a woman whose life, physically and financially, was shattered by the Las Vegas shooting. Now we have more families and loved ones shattered by a hateful act with a weapon of war.
Please NY Times, follow up with the victims of these shootings so that their stories and pain are a constant reminder that we must do better. The noise of the day should not silence their grief.
6
The only thing you hunt with assault weapons is human beings. There is no excuse, none, for making these weapons available to the general public. If you add the fact that there are no/inadequate regulations on background checks about or mental health of the purchasers, is it not reasonable to assume that any crackpot with a hobby horse can buy and use military weapons against fellow citizens? When you read that hun- dreds of bullets were shot into a 24 year old victim, it makes a sane person sick. What will it take to bring reasonable restrictions on guns?
7
I was Charlie Hebdo in January 2015 and 8 am a Jew today, despite my non-denomination beliefs.
7
You’re a hero. /s
8
President Trump had nothing to do with these killings in Jersey City. The culprits are the ones who pulled the trigger. This tragedy should not bring out more hate toward our president. He does not condone this barbaric act and is outraged about this as we all are. Adding hate to hate accomplishes nothing. We need to stop this madness.
32
I find many of the comments here divisive. This tragedy didn’t happen because the attackers were black. It happened because of the hate they had in their hearts. White terrorists carry the same hate. Hate is hate, evil is evil and for some to seem to take a certain satisfaction from these attackers being black disgusts me. Do you really think the pain and suffering the victims and their families are going through is more or less impacted by the race of the perpetrators? We have to stand up against hate in all its forms and from all people and stop this divisiveness.
8
"The Black Hebrew Israelites, which has no connection with mainstream Judaism" - That's a weird way to say it, as they're neither jews, nor Israelites. What mainstream has to do with it?
27
Wow, right there in the headline: these people have no connection to mainstream Judaism. Funny, when ISIS or Al Qaeda engage in terrorism, I don’t recall seeing the story mention that these people have no connection to mainstream Islam. Might have helped...
18
That’s because both of those DID have support (if passively) in many Islamic communities. Those tens of thousands of soldiers and millions of dollars didn’t come from nowhere.
10
This is extremely sad and disturbing. My sincere condolences to the families of the innocent victims.
There seems to be a sickening rise in antisemitism.
I hope every possible resource is made available to protect the Jewish community.
20
We sure are having a come to Jesus moment with mass shootings, every crackpot splinter group and loner is mobilizing.
What this situation needs is more high powered weapons made easily available by irresponsible politicians.
My heart goes out to the victims
13
@John
I appreciate that your heart goes out to the victims, but one way to show it would be to refrain from referring to the murder of Jews as a "come to Jesus moment."
9
This is a horrible tragedy and I'm sorry for the folks who lost their loved ones. I hangout with some Black Israelites once, invited in their home in Baltimore to help record some music. They were totally cool to me. I'm white. I don't know much about the greater group nor do I condone any anti semitism but they aren't all bad if you ask me. Honestly I looked at it as modern attempt to reconcile the divorce from African roots by slavery and bigotry.
6
"'Can you imagine a few hundred bullets went into the body of a 24-year-old child?” Rabbi Niederman said. “How can we as a people, a community, bear that?'"
To me, this statement says it all.
Where did those guns and bullets come from, and how?
Why has Congress not the President nor the Vice President spoken out in support of Jewish Americans and this NJ community in particular?
Where are the voices and votes of Representatives Omar, and Tlaib, who claim not to be judeophobic even as they decry the existence of Israel? Why is there not immediate and public condemnation of judeophobia and antisemitism from the highest levels on down? Can Nancy Pelosi pull her head up from articles of Impeachment for the 20 seconds it takes to condemn this antisemitism and to perhaps ask colleagues or staffers to draft legislation to fund programs that teach intergroup tolerance and promote peaceful coexistence in our towns, cities, states and nation as a United whole? What about Mitch McConnell who supposedly champions religious freedom -- why is he mute today? Where is our leadership??
21
Let's get a few things straight here.
1. The Black Hebrew Israelites are essentially a Christian group. They believe in the divinity of Jesus, so cannot be considered Jewish in any form.
2. Their origin goes back to the late 19th century, so those who are claiming they get their ideas from current leftist groups or trends (such as BDS) are simply incorrect.
3. From the FBI: "violent radical fringe members" of the Black Hebrew Israelite movement hold "beliefs [that] bear a striking resemblance to the Christian Identity theology practiced by many white supremacists. And: "the overwhelming majority of [Black Hebrew Israelites] are unlikely to engage in violence."
Being supremacist (albeit black supremacist), the dogma is to be considered more to the right than to the left.
4. Of the various black Jewish sects (as opposed to black Jews who are allied with the major Jewish sects and usually members of mixed congregations), the BHI group is the furthest removed from actual Judaism, being actually Christian.
25
@dennis Why are you going out of your way to make this a right vs left situation? Does it really matter their skin color, their political persuasion, or their religious ideology? Would you bend over backwards for anyone else, to try to explain away the crime of that individual? I find it incredibly sad that you would use an attack against Jewish people as a good excuse to attack Christians, by aligning them with murderers.
1
@dennis
The Black Hebrew Israelites are a racist hate group (at least according to the SPLC).
Like many such groups, most members are unlikely to engage in violence. But those that do commit horrible crimes.
I don’t see anything that categorizes them as more right or left. Although anti-white sentiment is more commonly associated with the left, religiousness is more commonly associated with the right.
I doubt that they support Republicans or Democrats. But who cares?
1
May I ask why everyone is referring to the three murdered Jews as "bystanders"?
A bystander is someone standing by. These three people were targets. The assailants went into the kosher supermarket shooting.
Is it so difficult?
54
It's called brainwashing. Cult indoctrination, plain and simple. Just like Trump-ism.
11
The Black Hebrew Israelites hate everybody. They're like the Westboro Baptists. Hate cults that thrive off of provocation and which the world we be better off without. And this terrible incident is yet another senseless gun tragedy, the latest on a very long and shameful list in this country. Whether it gets defined as a hate crime, an act of terrorism or insanity or just plain murder, it is, in the end, a horror that defies categorization. But calling the Black Hebrew Israelites antisemitic presents a problematic distortion. Since they consider themselves as Jews (it's right there in their name) and (if I've understood their twisted street corner rants correctly) descendants of one of the twelve tribes, labeling them antisemitic is actually an abuse of the term. It subverts its definition and reinforces racial stereotypes undermining the moral integrity that fights against real antisemitism. Thinking of all Jews as white europeans is a form of antisemitism itself.
5
Uhm, I don't think these are the same Hebrew Israelites that immigrated from the US to Israel and have quite the opposite view of Jews, they themselves as equal Jews among them with out any anti-semetic philosophies, afterall you can't hate yourself. So, these folks seem to have the same name but are definitely not the same group of people. I hope people don't get them confused.
1
The Times might have mentioned that the Black Hebrew Israelites were the same hate group that started the whole saga with the Covington Catholic school boys in Washington, DC, remember? Those extremists harangued the kids with hate speech for an hour, even denouncing the Native Americans on the scene (in fact it was NOT the boys who did that), and then the Native American drummer decided to make "peace" -- not targeting the instigators, but drumming in the face of one boy who wore the MAGA hat. Even in apologizing, the media couldn't get this story right. And this sort of hate and violence only perpetuates when you do not name it and cover it properly. Here it is again.
52
Yet more rhetorical hate speech and oppressive viewpoints targeting a religious people and their faith.
The whole world recently witnessed similar comments unabashedly displayed by a certain Oval Office occupant and staff member.
Words have consequences.
4
How many more people have to die before Americans ban assault rifles and other military hardware?
10
The conduct and language that has spewed out of the Oval office these past three years sets the tone for acts such as that described here to occur. Those that support trump and trump can bear the burden for creating the atmosphere that encourages these reprehensible actions. This is not how you make America great. This is how you destroy it, through ignorance and hatred. You voted for it, you got it, now own it.
6
Would love to hear the comments of “the four” on this horrid occurrence.
23
Assault weapons in the hands of people in a community--as they create a war zone of death and destruction. More tragedy and sorrow.
Is that what owning a gun is supposed to be about in America?
But, let's all have our lives run by what the National Rifle Association and its members and adherents continue to want as our Congressional lawmakers' will folds to those demands. Let's just do that while we wait for yet another killing or shoot-out.
As to how many shootings there have been in just this year--I've lost count--but let's just to learn to live with it as we have been doing. No change in gun laws has evidently become the rule.
In the meantime, it seems as though America is no longer a safe place to try to have a life as long as people can arm themselves with weapons found on the battlefield.
6
This entire story is shocking to me.
Randomly, I just spent 5 days working in Jersey City on a small project.
EVERYONE I met was friendly, in a good mood and considerate.
As an out-of-stater, I was never concerned for my safety or my personal-property. I consider Jersey City to be a gentrifying, up-&-coming area, well on it's way to better things, mostly due to it's proximity to NYC.
Other than a brief verbal argument I observed between 2 strangers on the street, and some aggressive drivers on the roads, it seemed safe, at least where I was, with many different nationalities seemingly 'leaving each other alone.'
Based on the articles, the officer who lost his life is a hero as are the first-responding officers who 'contained' the shooters from spreading out into other areas with their arsenal.
But the loss of innocent-lives in the market is beyond tragic.
Once again we have the loss of innocent lives, whether Jew or Christian, rich or poor, white or black, young or old, at the hands of killers who have guns they shouldn't have. This time in the hands of people who're neither Jewish, Israelite nor Hebrew.
Our leaders owe America real-world solutions to ending these tragedies. It's not being dealt with in the private-sector nor by society. We need a regulatory-response. I'm almost always against government intruding in people's business, but in this crisis, I don't see another solution.
Sympathy & condolences to the victims and their families.
7
Most days, bleachers included, they can be found across the street from Philadelphia’s City Hall. ‘Tis best to steer clear and not engage.
This is a one way street they travel.
9
Gun violence is driven by (1) violent ideologies (2) untreated mental illness, and (3) inequality / the economics of crime. NY/NJ arguably has the strictest gun control in the country, on par with California, but gun control laws fail to address these deeper, root issues. We need:
1. Healthcare reform and free mental healthcare
2. Economic reform to redress problems of inequality that drive crime
3. Affordable college education.
Educated, mentally healthy people with a solid sense of their own economic future don't go on crazy rampages.
Peace.
5
Why would they say it is not a terrorist attack? The moment that I heard 'kosher grocery store' I assumed it was a targeted attack. There has been so many anti-semitic attacks in this country lately that I find it concerning that the media and the authorities for some reason dismissed this as another possible act of terror stemming from racism.
29
As is expected in response to any tragedy, the two issues most debated are how to blame Trump and the need for more gun control. My comment is with regards to the latter. There is no such thing as easy access to guns in NJ (or New York, for that matter). In our state, you must be 21, have a clean record, submit to background checks, answer in-depth questions, provide references, and obtain the signature of a police chief in order to get a permit to buy guns or ammunition. In order to carry a handgun, you need a judge to approve it. It is also illegal to transport a loaded weapon in your vehicle. What additional law would have prevented this tragedy?
Sure, you could argue that if every state had these laws, shootings would not occur, but then you'd be abandoning logic, assuming that criminals will follow the law. After all, as stated, it is illegal to drive with a loaded firearm in NJ, where the crime took place, and where the criminal did just that. If you are willing to shoot an officer in the head, then clearly those laws are not created for you. They are directed at the innocent people who obey the law, and who have no inclination to commit such a crime.
12
@Rochelle Unless, of course, you buy at a gun show or over the internet, where these rational restrictions do not exist. It is a seller's market -- there are always lunatics with money.
As as result of the killings, spouses have lost their spouse and children have lost a parent. We speak to the outrage of those killed but not enough to the outrage of the senseless losses now faced by those family members.
6
For those who are not familiar with the proximity of NYC to JC, it is appropriate that the NYT article includes a map of the area. it would be very helpful, and provide ironic context if both Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty were identified on the map!
3
I would like to know in which state they bought their “AR-style” weapons. Name them and shame them.
PA has almost two times the homicide rate of New York and New Jersey. We are lucky not to have their gun laws, our homicide rates would be even lower if it wasn’t so easy to go over to PA or Virginia to buy weapons.
3
My condolences and may detective Seals rest in peace.
I wonder, did he approach that truck by himself, with no support or back up? That would be terrible.
3
@MenachemP. Definitely a factor, and for the same reasons. Every religion I know about has sects, and through history, they murder each other, sometimes over cultural or economic issues, or often as part of agitation for secular war. In essence, once you can identify ‘the other’ you’re mostly there. Like African-Americans, Hasidim are distinguishable, therefore easy to become ‘the other’. Scratch most observant Christians and you’ll find a good layer of hateful indoctrination against other Christians. Insane, but real.
My country has been the very best refuge for the greatest variety of ‘others’ and has, despite outbreaks of horror, genocide and large-scale regression, maintained it for a couple of centuries. I really think we’re in trouble now that politics is exploiting fear and hatred in a way few living have known. We have serious work to do.
1
We have a President that enables hate groups, undermines our law enforcement agencies, has demonstrated racism and bigotry in his business and “elected” lives, is a coward on gun control measures and cripples access to health care including mental health. So, with a spineless GOP, elect this sociopath again and these problems will continue to get worse. The sorry excuse for a man encourages violence except for when he needed his pacifist bone spurs.
28
@BB I hate Trump, but blaming him for the behavior of a black israelite group that's been spewing hatred for decades is truly delusional.
27
Anti-semitic violence cannot be tolerated. Period.
We should also pause for a minute to think through the sacrifice the cop made, and how it likely played out. He was outgunned, and, because of his training, most likely had a rules based trigger finger. For all he knew, if he'd gone into this situation and fired prematurely, he'd end up on administrative leave, charged with murder. Instead, his wife is a widow and his children are without their father. Remember that the next time we're all so quick to judge a police officer who mistakenly shoots an innocent person.
The flip side to that coin is that in our society, we make instantaneous and unfair judgements about a person's likely behavior based on their race. And why should anyone, and Black men in particular, be victimized by this?
But, this subtly socialized racism is dyed into every bone of our society, not just among the police. And we ask these men and women to put themselves in harm's way to keep us safe. Yes, police officers should be trained to overcome racsit impulses, and they must be held accountable even if you accept the idea that racism can lead to "mistakes." But the fact of the matter is that this sin belongs to all of us, and can't just be laid at the feet of the police.
15
I lived in Philadelphia for nearly two decades and regularly encountered Hebrew Israelites downtown in Center City, their loudspeakers blaring down the block, their hatred of whites and Jews so blatant, it shocked the soul. I'm a black woman, an educator, and a lover of black culture and community. There is no way, however, I could condone or identify with any of the psychological violence this group inflicted on the public. I cringed walking past them, ashamed. They have turned our struggle into a spectacle. As they screamed into microphones, their black, purple and silver robes with cut-out stars and moons (made of aluminum foil?) appeared cosmically cartoonish. I couldn't relate to them and knew their energy didn't represent our community. The whole thing was just wrong.
I understand my community has been abused by generations of racist policies, attitudes, and behaviors. I am sympathetic with the plight of black people in America (and beyond), and use education and writing as tools to push for justice.
But there is no way, as a fellow black person, that I can see any merit in how the Hebrew Israelites assault people in such a brutal way. The abuse we endure as black people does not sanction our becoming abusers. Elevation can only exist in love. There is no other way.
539
I am an Orthodox Jew. Thank you for reminding us that there are good people across ethnicities, and we can’t view each other through the lens of the evil ones.
82
Thank you, my sister.
47
@Nita I recall being harassed by them in Times Square and other parts of the city in the 1980s and 90s. Their costumes and rhetoric were beyond ridiculous - I really hope nobody considers them representative of anybody but loons.
31
This is so heartbreaking, as I look at our splintered society, I have no idea how we will restore compassion for one another. It's gone, nowhere to be found.
4
And thanks to our antiquated constitution and its insanely pro-gun (industry) interpretation by conservatives, this fine young gentleman had no trouble getting his hands on guns.
6
This is NOT a "far left" group.
This is an ultra-RIGHT fringe group that has no political or ideological connection to "the left." If anything, this is a splinter group with deep antipathy towards the left, Black or otherwise
The fact that some splinters of this group might have deep hostility towards the police does not change that: there are right wing groups that hate police, too.
But watch how this incident is spun as if "the left" is responsible for hate crimes in any way on par with what ultra-right affiliated terrorists have committed in this country.
24
I think the detective was on their trail and something happened at the cemetery; a confrontation, questioning, etc. Perhaps about the guns. (He was an illegal gun enforcement officer.) After they shot him, they went on with their original plan. They (the perps) were intent on violence. Enough! The killing has to stop. African-Americans have suffered for centuries, but this is not the way to get justice. Or peace.
2
Very scary times, that our President has unleashed the demons of hate and violence. When you raise snakes, they don't only bite others.
I moved to the US from a country which was once peaceful, then we had a demagogue leader, and within a few years, the country changed, with violence and bitterness and divisions rampant, today that country is trying to put itself back together after 20 years of bloodshed and destruction.
I cannot tell you how many parallels I find here with Trump, it always starts innocuously, targeting a particular group etc and then it expands and then takes a life of its own, negative ideas almost always end up in negative actions.
I firmly believe since 2016 when he was elected that if re-elected, it would be terrible for the country, some people would always support him, some would be fooled into thinking he was the reason for their success, but ultimately the consequences will be obvious for all to see. These shootings are all canaries in a coalmine, we are ignoring the warning signs at our peril. He is destroying trust in our institutions, making them meaningless, so he can do whatever he wants.
I'm not as smart as many of you here so excuse me, but this man is a very very bad omen for the country, may God help us all, Amen.
14
@Rick,
The perspective from people who lived in countries that had demagogue leaders is invaluable - you have seen and experienced what others here have not (before now) so you recognize the parallels that many cannot see or understand but truly need to. Thank you for posting.
4
Take a society awash with high powered weapons. Add obscene inequality between haves and have-nots. Sprinkle a large dose of untreated mental health issues. Finally, let this toxic mess settle with the inertia and paralysis of decision-makers only interested in their own political skins. Really, what do you expect?
158
@Mark Paskal Please, then, explain why the U.S. has not been de-populated. At end-2017, there were about 411,000,000 firearms in the U.S., more than one for each of the 328,000,000 U.S. residents, including infants, who usually own little. (See U.S. Dept of Justice, "Firearms Commerce in the United States", 2000 and 2018; military-owned firearms excluded).
Things so abundant and concealable cannot be controlled. That's what foredoomed Prohibition, a nationwide ban on alcoholic drinks (1919-33).
Then, as now, home brew's ingredients could be had in any grocery. In some U.S. regions, distilling alcohol ("moonshine", "white lightning") was a tradition older than is this Republic. Prohibition made some "moonshiners" wealthy. Those, who backed Prohibition, were impenetrably stupid. They bequeathed to us well-organized criminal cartels, still a plague on the land.
Further, since 1980, the number of firearms in the U.S. has doubled, but the murder rate has halved. In 1980, the murder rate was 10.2 per 100,000 residents (Dept. of Justice, "Homicide Trends in the United States, 1980-2008", p.2). In 2017, the homicide rate was 5.2 per 100,000 residents (FBI, "Crime in the United States", 2017. Table 1). If firearms drove the incidence of criminality, the murder rate should have doubled. It didn't. The murder rate halved.
If your basic idea were sound - weapon availability drives criminality - the U.S. should long ago have been emptied of humans. You're in error.
11
@Mark Paskal
You left out religion. Anything toxic is made much worse by "knowing" that the almighty has sanctioned it. This gives you the right, even obligation, to slaughter the unbelievers, or anybody else you designate as the target of god. The Middle East shows us this every day.
25
@Jay E. Simkin
Wow.
Imagine a group of 100 people. And then imagine that there are 300 bananas owned by that group. You're positing that every person has 3 bananas. But what if I told you that really 99 don't and just 1 has all 300.
1) In the US, only 30% of folks actually own guns.
2) About 5% of US adults experience a mental health issue of some type in a year. Not all of these actually own guns. Not all of the gun owning folks with mental issues will snap and use those guns.
As such Mr. Paskal's arguments are valid and yours, not so much.
What you really need to be doing is deciding if there's too much gun violence in the US. If you think there isn't. Fine. But if you're shocked by it, then you need to find a fix. Some sort of reasonable gun control might be part of a solution.
As for me, I find it completely abysmal and unconscionable that you don't do something to fix the issue, given the ASTRONOMICAL number of school shootings there are in your country. Shame on you all for not fixing that problem.
7
Are these the guys who used to stand on street corners in Union Square and Times Square, shouting at people? I once saw them swing a folding chair to assault someone who dared to debate them.
29
While I understand the need to lash out at whomever would have engaged in this senseless carnage and to demand an end to it, the knee-jerk attempts to pin this on the alt-right and blame Trump is nonsensical.
As well, the belief that passing more gun control laws will somehow prevent these attacks in the future isn’t founded in reality. Law abiding people are the only ones impacted by gun control laws. These laws will only serve to prevent people from protecting themselves and other innocents from those who would engage in attacks such as this one. Those who would slaughter a policeman and those they found in the grocery store won’t be impacted in the least by gun laws. Outlaws always manage to get guns here. Way past time to put the genie back in the bottle.
21
@Greenie
There is no excuse for not banning assault weapons. People have the right to protect themselves and their property, but do they really need a firearm specifically designed to kill humans quickly and efficiently? No, they don't.
To blame Trump is not nonsensical. The election of Trump gave Americans "voice and license to express the previously suppressed," and lowered the bar of what constitutes unacceptable bigotry from all sides of the political spectrum.
https://psmag.com/social-justice/trumps-election-made-bigotry-more-acceptable
9
Haha- Guns are unnecessary toxic toys. They should be regulated into extinction.
2
Terrible, terrible and surely this was terrorism.
My heart is with the victims of this terrorism.
13
Here in Minneapolis we have a relatively small but vocal group of Black Hebrew Israelites who often preach on the street in the Downtown area. I have listened to them on several occasions, and was amazed at how close their Biblical doctrine is to the church of my youth: The Worldwide Church of God (now defunct, but with many splinter groups). The Worldwide Church of God followed the doctrine of British Israelism.
The doctrine of British Isrealism teaches that the lost tribes of Israel ended up as the people of Europe, Britain and the United States. The doctrine is tailor-made for bigots, as the members are the chosen ones.
Compare and contrast to the doctrines of the Israelite Church of God in Jesus Christ (a sect of the Black Hebrew Israelites) that teach that the lost tribes of Israel ended up as the Black Americans, West Indians, Native Americans and so forth.
However, my view was that the Worldwide Church of God was not nearly as bigoted as what I have heard from the Black Hebrew Israelites in Minneapolis, who seem to be pretty much 'in-your-face' about racial issues. As a comparison, the Worldwide Church of God had archaeological partnerships with Hebrew University in Jerusalem, and we were occasionally invited to a local synagogue here in Minneapolis to learn about the Passover Seder. There were a number of black members in the Minneapolis church, perhaps 5-10% of membership.
5
I used to see this group, the Black Hebrew Israelites (I am assuming it is the same group) every Saturday on the corner of 7th Avenue and 33rd or 34th Street preaching, yelling, asserting their beliefs, generally with tourists and passersby simply watching 'the show.' I never felt intimidated by them and they never threatened anyone directly, but they did preach a violent return to the land they felt was their own. They would be dressed in very colorful clothing, 'puffy pants and shirts' and I always wondered where they got their clothing. So one day I asked one of the non preaching members where I could buy a pair of pants like his. He just glared at me and turned away, but he was not belligerent or aggressive. It did not occur to me that their members would become homicidal, yet it does not surprise me. (again I am assuming this group is the same as the one that may be involved in the Jersey City incident.)
8
For all the good the internet has done in the world, it has equally allowed racist, anti-Semitic, homophobic, and racial superiority thought to fester and grow. People who were shut down locally for their views now can go online and network with other like-minded souls anywhere in the world. It truly is a scary prospect of what the future holds as societies insulate themselves with like-minded views in the digital world as opposed to interacting in the real world and being constantly exposed to different people with different views.
5
Unfortunately there is rising resentment of Jews within some historically Black neighborhoods. Houses are bought far above market value by people that never live there - with the apparent initial goal of reducing Black people to renters only, eventually building a community that only a specific group can afford and will call home. This gentrification is seen as a takeover of these communities by people who practically segregate and keep to themselves. The recent Facebook post by a former NAACP staffer ("we have to die so Jews can live", "$50 billion to Israel and no clean water in Flint") hints at similar resentment, and the promotion of Israel by our President has exacerbated this problem.
Such details will likely not be mentioned anywhere in the media, but ignoring these issues will not make them go away. It is easy to label anything as anti-Semitic so it becomes a taboo topic, and will never be discussed. It is not so easy to ignore incidents like these.
I hope attention is given to this topic because not doing so, in my opinion, could lead to equally horrific events in the future. I pray for everyone killed and wounded in this incident and for their grieving families. I also pray that someone looks closer at the killers behind this so it will not be dismissed as just two crazy disgruntled people acting out. Then maybe open discourse can quell resentment and prevent future extremist copycats. We don't homegrown terrorists in the USA. Period.
14
It's fascinating to watch folks try to get cues from their various tribes on how exactly to react to the news that the shooters in Jersey City are linked to some fringe group or another. I mean, there are not supposed to be black Zionists, or African-American self-proclaimed Hebrews, or whatever label we try to slap on people. Because our reactions must be somewhat dependent on those labels.
There have been 394 shootings in the USA so far this year where four or more people were killed or wounded. That means at least 394 different labels, if those labels are important. I'll call them criminals with easy access to firearms. That simplifies things.
10
Unfortunately the bad elements hate,bias,assault weapons ended the lives Of decent people.
1
I wonder where they purchased those guns?
5
If an ideology was the motivation for this attack, then it was indeed a terrorist attack.
10
The new normal: Assailants so heavily armed that they can stand off policy for hours. They had ARs.
To date there have been nearly 400 mass shootings in the USA. And nearly 40,000 deaths from firearms. These are the statistics for ONE YEAR! (Source: Gun Violence Archives)
Good thing we don’t have a problem with firearms in America otherwise these numbers could get really bad!
17
@Stephen
I'm sure someone will come along and comment about how the "real" problem is mental health. Or how "criminals don't follow laws." Or that "technically, it wasn't an assault rifle." Or...
When looking for God beware, there are two roads with a light at the end of both. One that builds a fat proud ego that denies others their humanity and the other that builds a strong ego that demands you look at others as yourself. Only one leads to God.
9
There's no group hated like the Jews are, with hate around the world coming from the far-right, the far-left, and from other racial and ethnic groups. At least the United States has adopted the IHRA definition of antisemitism, which is the stated definition shared by Canada, Britain, France, the EU, and a slew of other nations.
14
The Black Hebrew Israelites believe they are the decedents of the ancient Israelites of the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament. If you objectively read the Hebrew Bible/OT you see it promotes the idea that God is so jealous that God's name is actually Jealous (Exodus 34:14). It also paints God as violent and ordering the Israelites to commit genocide many times, and to slaughter men, women and children with no mercy shown. As the Deist Thomas Paine pointed out in The Age of Reason, The Complete Edition, "Belief in a cruel god makes a cruel man."
The Black Hebrew Israelites are similar to the part of the Christian Identity movement known as the Phinehas Priests. They believe that white Gentile people are the true decedents of the Israelites of the Hebrew Bible/OT. They too have committed murders based on their religious beliefs ( http://www.deism.com/phinehaspriests.htm ).
Albert Einstein was correct when he wrote, "A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels."
10
From the SPLC's article on Black Hebrew Israelites: "...most Hebrew Israelites are neither explicitly racist nor anti-Semitic and do not advocate violence..." Giving these people a blanket definition of "hate group" is only going to spread more hate.
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2008/racist-black-hebrew-israelites-becoming-more-militant
5
@Katie
Absolutely; there are probably "fine people" on the other side of the group.
3
Pray for those murdered. Spread Love sparingly, because Hate has no limits.
3
I think you meant Spread love UNsparingly.
A lovely and loving peace of welcomed advice.
Kindness counts.
Black Hebrew Israelites. I don't think many Americans even know what that means, or care. Thank goodness it has no relation to mainstream Judaism...
11
The same group of people that were spueing hate speach at the Covington high school kids.
55
@Racer AMX exactly!
9
Jews again are being targeted.
This is just another example of a very long pattern of hatred of Jews.
It is common over the entire political spectrum. Jews are blamed for controlling the banks, the media, poisoning Christians, mind control. You name it, we are blamed for it.
To study Jewish history, which I do, is to read the most absurd accusations against us from fear mongers of the left and right.
It is no coincidence that of every nation in the world, Israel is the number one state condemned in the UN. When I was studying in China I cared for a woman from Lebanon, a Muslim, doing gratis talk therapy with her. Her husband was very abusive and she needed to speak. I volunteered.
She profusely thanked me afterwards but drew back in horror when I identified myself as a Jew. " How can you be a Jew? You are so nice!" I asked her why she thought that way. " Well, the Jews are the source of all evil in the world. Everyone knows that."
This is from the left. I have found it on the right as well, of course. The Nazis were not the only voice on the right.
The next time you hear anti-Jewish talk say something. Stand up to bigotry and hate regardless of its source. If you hear anti-Israel talk, pay attention to the source of the verbiage and its alleged facts. The same for any other anti-Jewish statements.
Be on guard and vigilant.
It is not enough to offer condolences and wishes of love for the survivors.
Have a happy hanukah, the festival of Light amidst the darkness.
40
@TDurk, the designation of being a "hate group" by the SPLC should be taken with many grains of salt, given that the SPLC once designed Maajid Nawaz as an "anti-Muslim extremist." He is probably the worst, but not the only, example. For more info, see the SPLC's apology.
https://www.splcenter.org/news/2018/06/18/splc-statement-regarding-maajid-nawaz-and-quilliam-foundation
6
The All American nightmare: When low IQ has instant access to high powered weapons.
36
Memo to every anti-Semite everywhere, especially during the heart of the Christmas season: What do "White Christmas", "Rockin’ Around the Christmas Tree”...“Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer”...“Let It Snow, Let It Snow, Let It Snow”..."Silver Bells"...“The Christmas Song” (Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire)...“Walkin’ In a Winter Wonderland”..."It's The Most Wonderful Time of the Year"..."Santa Baby"...and many more have in common? All were written by Jews. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
38
Under Trump, antisemitism did, does and will balloon.
4
@nestor potkine This kind of automatic pointing at Trump doesn't do any good. These weren't his people, and the narrative apparently has little to do with him or his policies. Let's not try to make him responsible for every single thing wrong.
9
Most Black Hebrews are NOT categorized as hate groups by the SPLC. There is a decent-sized group of African Americans who believe themselves to be descended from the Twelve Tribes of Israel, and who would identify as Black Hebrews or Black Hebrew Israelites. Most of them are not aligned with the radical and potentially violent beliefs of the ICGJC, ISUPK, or Nation of Yahweh. Please clarify.
5
@Martin Toomajian Please tell me what a "decent-sized group of African Americans" is? I'm black/ african American and no one in my sphere is a "Black Hebrews".. so again, please tell me what a "decent-size is"; please clarify?
And please be fact based.... thank you.
25
Sounds to me like they're not just a hate group, but a terrorist organisation.
4
The recent rise in Anti-Semitism is appalling. We must take action to protect our Jewish brothers and sisters so that they feel safe at all times.
20
"Mentally disturbed people." Here we go again with the knee-jerk, throw-away stigmatization of all of us living with mental illnesses. Pleaae stop it.
38
@Eggs & Oatmeal I'm sorry but someone that's really sick and not treated is a legit threat. I do not want unmedicated bipolars or schizophrenics to have access to weapons and I come from a family of mental health professionals. As you well know psychosis is a very real and very scary thing which is why treatment is 100% necessary and I do not want this group to have access to weapons where they will either kill themselves (high likelihood) and potentially others when they are going through a delusional phase. Be honest about mental illness this is not helping.
14
I agree we shouldn't further stigmatize people with mental illness. However, it can also reasonably be asserted that rabid racism, antisemitism and similar forms of mass hatred are in themselves forms of mental derangement, though not mental illness in the general sense of the word.
3
Mental illnesses require medical diagnoses. They cannot be mere assumptions based on faulty popular opinions. I have bipolar disorder and PTSD, and never once I thought about murdering. Direct your safety concerns to the NRA, the Second Amendment Foundation, and other organizations of the ilk. The problem is GUNS, not my mental illnesses.
3
It’s called ANTI-SEMITISM. It doesn’t matter who the perpetrators are.
44
@Paul Bouvier: Well, on the other hand, there are many different sorts of anti-Semitism, just as there are different sorts of organized crime. We kind of have to pay some attention to the variants, as well as to what they have in common. Not to justify them in any way.
1
It's time American Jews realized that we are under attack by White Supremists & Black Anti Semitism.We can learn from History or walk in lockstep to our death.
Every Jew must have protection & make it clear to our enemies that we have no intention to die like sheep.
33
I believe this article contains a semantic error. The Black Hebrew Israelites are not one movement but a group of people sharing a common belief in Black descent from Israelites. The SPLC has not designated Black Hebrew Israelites in general as a hate group. Rather, the Black nationalist/supremacist fringe wing of the Black Hebrew Israelites constitutes a hate group according to the SPLC, as do all other strains of Black nationalism. The article should be corrected to avoid implying that mainstream Black Hebrew Israelites are anti-Semitic.
16
@Alex How about we just say the the ones preaching on street corners are the "Hate Group" variety. I think that clears it up.
4
This attack comes on the heels of Trump's announced plan to issue an executive order that "Judaism" is a "nationality." What on earth country is this? I thought we fought WWII to defeat Nazis?
16
Per Haaretz, a leading Israeli news source, the draft of the executive order does NOT define Judaism as a nationality.
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-trump-to-sign-executive-order-on-anti-semitism-in-college-campuses-treating-jeiwshn-1.8255875
7
@Balthazar
He did no such thing. He said that Jewish college students who are being attacked on hundreds of campuses around the land for being pawns of Israel and enemies of the Heroic Palestinian People should, when attacked, be protected as a hate crime.
What is wrong with that?
For me it makes me a lot more comfortable as a Jew that people like me will be taken seriously when we are attacked for being who we are.
17
You’ve totally misunderstood the executive order - it’s to protect Jewish students on college campuses from discrimination please read:
https://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Antisemitism/Trump-expected-to-issue-executive-order-against-antisemitism-on-campus-610540
11
It is open season on Jews.
But then again this has been the case for 2,000 years.
Whether we assimilate or remain true to whom we are we are still singled out by both the right ( called Communists, foreign elements, Christ killers, traitors) and the left ( capitalists, greedy, blood sucking enemies of the Workers, pawns of Israel which they blame for all the ills of mankind+).
Meanwhile, we are trying to live our lives like everyone else and just get by, raise our families and live according to what we know to be authentic for us, for Jews.
The mandate of the Jewish people has always been to be a light unto the nations, to testify to the truth that there is something holy in the world and that man is not the top dog in the universe. We know that nature is sacred, human life is divine, we are all made in the image of the Infinite, the Holy One, Blessed be He.
For this, we have always been cursed and reviled, seen as the "other".
We will continue on as we always have, seeking to live our truth.
Have a happy hannukah, the festival of light amidst the darkness.
40
@Simon Sez thank you for stating beautifully what seems to elude so many. It’s a heartbreaking day. Hard not to feel hopeless.
Thanks for your good words.
9
@Simon Sez Excuse me but assimilation doesn’t mean we don’t remain true to who we are! It’s not one or the other.
4
The fruits of hatred, fertilized by the president of the United States, plucked.
43
@sbmd The shooters have a history of anti-semitic and anti-cop writings. This hate has nothing to do with Trump.
110
@Ryan m
they have dared to do because it has become more acceptable to do after Charlottesville.
20
“Jews will not replace us” , chanted the Charlottesville torch carrying marchers.
donnie the so-called president called these folks, “very fine people”.
33
There is a huge rise up of anti Semitic attacks. Do non Jewish people notice this? What do they think we should do?
20
@Lola
Arm and protect yourselves like history has shown is necessary...
1
All bigotry is ignorant, dangerous nonsense. If you hate someone for the color of their skin, their religion, their ethnicity, their sexual preference, their sex —you are a fool. Somehow we need to teach this to our children.
19
Thank goodness I sit here at work armed as many of my coworkers are. How folks can live at the mercy of others is so shocking to me
9
Well Russell, the rest of us unarmed folks read books and articles and scientific journals - things like that which inform us your gun is far more likely to be discharged accidentally by one of your kids, or fired purposely by you or your spouse in an act of domestic violence than it is likely to protect you from a mass shooting. But worry not, the statistics also say you’re far more likely to just point that thing at your head on a bad day... so I’m feeling pretty darn good about not having a gun to prop up my ego right now, thank you. Because I read more than the local news. More than what one will find on FB or Fox and Friends.
That’s ridiculous, unless you are at work with a loaded weapon in your hands, you are not “armed”.
In 2018, the Anti-Defamation League recorded 1,879 anti-Semitic incidents in the United States, the third-highest annual figure since the organization began keeping track four decades ago and up 48 percent from 2016.
14
@all fear is rational
before I forget...
"What changed in the country in 2016 that would account for a 48 percent increase in anti-Semitic incidents in the United States in two years later?"
...just asking.
3
Beyond the obvious, which is sitting in the White House, Russian bots and 4Chan and similar posting provocateurs using ill-monitored social media to pit Americans against one another was also a change in and around 2016.
1
@all fear is rational
Easy...our President won and so the Dems have bared their snarling teeth and shown what hatred really looks like.
Thanks so much for allowing the truth to come through.
2
President Trump has many faults to answer for, but that so many comments in this thread hold him accountable for a hate crime perpetrated by an anti-white, anti-Semitic, and anti police hate group, and refuse to acknowledge any accountability from extremist rhetoric of the far left shows a disturbing lack of fairness, and judgment.
376
@arden jones The Black Israelites are racists, though labeling them as far left is inaccurate. They're not on the street corners preaching about healthcare for all. They're out their preaching that white people are the devil.
133
@arden jones
The 'extremist rhetoric of the far left' ? Really. Who is the 'far left' to you, anyway ? Ocasio- Cortez ? 'Antifa' ? How do their views come into play at all here ? Trump and his administration have made it chic to hate. He built his 'platform' around it. His 'America First' nationalism has emboldened those with axes to grind and people who are looking for someone to blame for their own failures. He stirs the pot until the sewage floats to the top. Don't act surprised when the flies show up.
75
@arden jones still does not absolve Trump of the hate he is spreading which is real. The media just hides the stories of the Vegas shooter, and the El Paso shooter among others because they were Republican and Trump supporters, one was ex soldier.
33
No wonder why Anti-Semitic attacks have spiked since Trump election. His actions as an agent provocateur and enabler have empowered extremist groups.
Racism and hatred should be included in the Articles of Impeachment against Trump.
His presidency certainly belongs to the annals of the Universal History of Infamy.
12
The mix of the mentally deranged and guns is a danger to us all. Failing to enact serous gun laws with background checks and waiting periods because these people might "get guns anyway" can only be explained by the power of NRA lobbyists and legislators who are afraid that some of their constituents might not vote for them.
What will it take to finally get some measure of protection for the rest of us?
9
Racism and it's close neighbor antisemitism are forms of mental derangement in and of themselves.
(Note that I said "derangement" and not "illness")
3
I lived in the old "historic district" of downtown Jersey City for about 8 years. Beyond the obvious loss of lives, this shooting is following a global trend of similar targeting of Jewish communities. My own paternal heritage is of a long line of Eastern European Ashkenazi Jewish people. This "trend" is steadily growing at a very rapid pace, and not enough is being done to slow it down.
25
This sad event echoes the shootings in the Hypercacher kosher supermarket siege in Paris in 2015. The similarity suggests an unfortunate inspiration for trouble.
24
The Hebrew Israelites are not motivated by the narrow prism of US political parties. They have a defined ideology that rejects, is suspicious and heavily critical of many/most American and global institutions. Trump, nor Obama nor any other president motivates their ideology.
These shooters were lone wolf actors, I'm sure. I have never personally spoken to a member of the HI who encouraged violence, just an individual change in mindset. I hope LE authorities don't start "Stop and Frisk" actions against all of them for the actions of a few.
7
Were these some of the good guys on both sides Trump told us about? Who are they? The media fails to identify them as white. Are black Hebrews black? Trump wouldn’t like them if they were. Is that why their race is not mentioned in the media? Questions abound.
2
Where are the gun control advocates now?
7
Just another day in America.
2
I'm glad to see the news is for once calling out this racist group. I regularly encounter this group in Fulton Mall in Brooklyn. No one seems to bat an eye while they are screaming their racist homophobic rhetoric. Would the public let White Supremacist Neo Nazi's spew hate in NYC without a fight? I don't think so.
91
@D
That is messed up. Sorry that anyone has to see such unchecked incivility.
1
Seems to me this was a terrorist attack, as defined by being a politically motivated attack on civilians, intended to cause fear. And this "Black Hebrew Israelites" group should therefore be considered a terrorist group. I think it'd be reasonable to charge anyone involved with this group with crimes like aiding a terrorist organization. There is no reason to tolerate this sort of homicidal bigotry.
45
Every week a mass shooting and still Republicans will do nothing to help or defend the American people.
12
Maybe it's time to consider putting on a shoulder holster with your tefillin.
11
I was born in Jersey City, and except for about a dozen years or so when my family and I lived elsewhere, I can say I've spent most of my 40-something years here. Before 9/11, this wasn't just the most diverse place in NJ. It was also a place where anyone could take up roots. Grew up alongside people from the Middle East, people from South Asia and parts of Latin America. Not to mention Irish and Italian Americans that had been here for generations. After this horrible incident, my heart breaks to think we too have succumbed to hate.
11
You have succumbed to hate only if all the people of Jersey City fail to create or come to ongoing support of their Jewish neighbors, their local Jewish community, and their fellow Americans who are Jewish.
Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No!" could be repurposed by the people of Jersey City and beyond. Of course, it will take more than just *saying* No; we all need to embody and enact that NO to HATE.
2
An incident on the London Underground occurred last week when a black Hebrew Israelite adherent began screaming at a man wearing a yarmulka and accompanied by a small child, calling the two hiderous names and trying to put the texts he was reading under their faces. Finally, a courageous Muslim woman on the same carriage stood up and told the man off. As cameras are now in every Underground train, the man was found an arrested, and the incident is being treated as what it is: an antisemitic hate crime.
97
Bravo! to that brave woman who is Muslim. She is a model for us all, and it shows that there are good and courageous people in the world willing to walk the walk of goodness, not just sit by or give condolences after a hateful act is perpetrated.
8
Does this remind anyone of Germany in the 1930s? Of the way that violence and hate gradually crept in, while ordinary people turned a blind eye? If you are not working to oust the GOP/NRA, are you as bad as they were?
22
Why don't journalists report that there have been increasing attacks on Jews in the NY metro area over the last year? And the attacks are committed by African-Americans?
The attackers are not from the Middle East or Africa. They are home grown.
Neither are they right wing white men.
100
There have also been skyrocketing attacks on Jews, including at least one massacre, by right wing white people. Why is that not mentioned in your comment?
3
@Cousin Greg
The comment was speaking about NYC. The majority of the incidents here by large are not right wing white people but by blacks and Muslim refugees. In Europe Muslim refugees by and large are the assailants. most were radicalized in the Muslim world and carry their hate to their new homes in Europe and NYC, too.
17
@Cousin Greg because he is speaking on the "NY Metro area"
9
No real surprise here, African Americans are overwhelmingly the perpetrators of anti-Semitic crimes in NYC. The Hate Crimes Stats are published by the City quarterly.
https://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/stats/reports-analysis/hate-crimes.page
100
@Mkm
simply not true...sometimes called a rank lie.
of the 150 arrests in 2018, 80 of those arrested were white.
3
@all fear is rational
The number of "arrests" does not equal the number of crimes, nor convictions. All three are related, but not too often.
@Mkm I followed the link. Doesn't look that way to me. Looks like we white people are in the lead as far as those arrested for hate crimes. I didn't see any data broken out about anti-Semitic crimes.
It's going to get much worse in this country before it gets better, and I really don't know what "better" means anymore. To my dying day I will never understand those who feel that Jewish people are evil.
20
Who cares what sect or conspiracy theory motivated the shooters. What matters is that whatever the motivation, they decided, like so many others these days to attack and maim Jews. I’ve lived my entire life in the northeast. I’ve often said that it is the safest place to be a Jewish person in the world. Today is a reminder that the evils of anti-semitism grow and that the dangers posed to Jews include the NYC metro region, whether fostered from the far right or increasingly the far left, whether embedded in minority groups or white Christians. Everyone should be held accountable for allowing this evil to grow.
Massive props to the JCPD, once the full story comes out I think we will learn that the first responders forced these two idiots to stay in that store, minimizing their ability to wreck havoc.
9
This is domestic terrorism plain and simple.
27
It might not have ultimately helped in this situation, but every Kosher supermarket is a potential target and they should all have some type of firearm under the counter to protect themselves if it happens. We know that this kosher market was unarmed in accordance with the extremely strict NJ firearms laws. And we know that those people had no chance once the attack began. People should have a right to defend themselves in these type situations.
19
@Bobotheclown
nice to see the NRA's PR department on the job putting members money to work arming the nation for civil Armageddon
3
@Bobotheclown
(N.J.S. 2C:58-1 et seq.).
Comply with the law and the training requirements and you may have a firearm at your business.
Firearms instruction in Yiddish might be a business opportunity for a Haredi who served in the IDF
2
Homicide rates in Pennsylvania is almost twice of what it is in New Jersey and in New York, so I say no thanks to your gun laws. Also most of the guns that do get into our state comes from Pennsylvania, so maybe it’s PA that should change.
Is this group listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center?
6
I can't help thinking with Trump sort of approving the torch light neo Nazi Hitler rally in Charlotteville VA that he opened the doors for more anti -Semitic violence.
12
Please vote in 2020.
And please research the background of people you're voting for before you cast your ballot. Ivana Trump reportedly included in her book that Donald Trump Sr. kept a copy of the collected speeches of Hitler on his bedside table...
5
He actually condemned that repeatedly.
The two suspects in the Jersey City shooting have been identified as David Anderson and Francine Graham. Anderson is or was a member if the Black Hebrew Israelites .
Black Hebrew Israelites are black Americans who believe that they are the descendants of the ancient Israelites. Most are not racist or anti-Semitic. However, the Southern Poverty Law Center classifies "the extremist fringe of the Hebrew Israelite movement" as black supremacist. Members of the fringe group believe Jews are devilish impostors and openly condemn whites as evil personified, deserving only death or slavery.”
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/jersey-city-shootout-developing-details-3/2239660/
13
It's not been my experience that Black "Hebrew Israelites" are not antisemitic or judeophobic.
Have met several over the years and, to the one, they were openly hostile toward Jewish individuals in the encounter and to Jewish people in general.
Indeed, their foundational claim is that Judaism and the world's Jewish population are interloping imposters (at best). That belief alone is deeply prejudiced, at best.
33
In Atlanta, they stand in front of CNN Center screaming at white people that they are crackers, the devil, etc. Glad they don’t know I’m Jewish when I go by. Such a sad state of affairs,
29
Other media are reporting that one shooter was member of the Black Hebrew Israelites. It seems implausible to tie him to Trump.
30
I don't know about that.
Hate makes for strange bed fellows. And your comment is like saying that anti-Black racism among, for example, certain parts of the Korean American community cannot be linked in any way to, or be influenced or informed by white supremacists' anti-Black rhetoric and violence; which it clearly was/is.
1
Every person I've encountered that was affiliated the Black Hebrew Israelites has been unwell. I don't know if they are attracted to the group because of their instability or the group's indoctrination causes it. In any case, it is dangerous. My condolences to all who were lost.
303
@Gail
I am from the northeast, and have encountered Black Hebrew Israelites on a number of occasions, and I agree that most have seemed mentally unstable. A few years ago my mother, who is in her 70s, was confronted, along with another African American woman, by a BHI. She was unnerved by the amount of vitriol that this man spewed at them, and his aggressive posturing. It wasn't her first time encountering BHI, but this guy was attempting to get physical with little, old ladies. I think the group's doctrine attracts disordered people, and has no supports to encourage them to stabilize since mainstream interventions are viewed as corrupt.
76
@Gail Such an important point. I was scrolling through comments about left and right, but some of these cults that toy with terrorism are more aligned with stable and unstable. Probably the group attracts the ustable and then fosters and nourishes (not causes) the instability.
32
@Gail I don't know that they are all 'unwell' but they certainly tend to be angry and misinformed.
8
The cold blooded murder of one brave police officer and five civilians is a horrible crime. My condolences to their grieving families and to the shocked city as a whole.
I hold the two killers, and all others like them, lower than the lowest form of life. Even lower than child molesters.
But there is a second crime that no one is talking about. How is it possible the two obviously deranged people can so easily obtain military grade weapons?
These two are losers. They are nuts. And after that, their motivation doesn't matter.
167
@Ex New Yorker The attackers were MURDERERS. They deliberately took innocent lives, with malice aforethought.
A "killing" - if in self-defense against imminent, lethal peril - usually is totally lawful. A "murder" is never lawful.
As firearm availability, at end-2017, there were about 411,000,000 firearms in the U.S., more than one for each of the 328,000,000 U.S. residents, including infants, who usually own little. (See U.S. Dept of Justice, "Firearms Commerce in the United States", 2000 and 2018; military-owned firearms excluded). Things so abundant and concealable cannot be controlled. That's what foredoomed Prohibition, the nationwide ban on alcoholic drinks (1919-33).
Then, as now, home-brew ingredients could be had in any grocery. In some regions, distilling alcohol ("moonshine", "white lightning") was a tradition older than is this Republic. Prohibition made some "moonshiners" wealthy. Those, who backed Prohibition, bequeathed to us well-organized criminal cartels, still a plague on the land.
Further, since 1980, the number of firearms in the U.S. has doubled, but the murder rate has halved. In 1980, the murder rate was 10.2 per 100,000 residents (Dept. of Justice, "Homicide Trends in the United States, 1980-2008", p.2). In 2017, the homicide rate was 5.2 per 100,000 residents (FBI, "Crime in the United States", 2017. Table 1). If firearms drove the incidence of criminality, the murder rate should have doubled. It didn't. The murder rate halved.
9
@ Jay Simkin
A gunshot becomes a murder only when the victim dies. Good care at a trauma center now saves many of the victims. A more meaningful statistic would be the number of people shot, including those who didn’t die.
Otherwise, a good post.
Thanks.
14
@Ex New Yorker Trump has made it ok to hate.
4
You can thank Trump, the Republican Party, and the NRA for this.
17
These are militant black supremacists, who’ve been on the radar for years. This had nothing to do with Trump.
84
@Vote For Giant Meteor In 2020
The Republican party and their leader, Trump, have approved of white supremacists and encouraged gun violence -- I suggest you watch the recent video of the Houston police chief where he passionately calls out the GOP for bowing to the NRA.
Too many people have died. Too many police officers have been killed and put in unnecessary jeopardy.
Our right to peaceable assembly is in danger, all because our great leader, the corrupt crime boss known as Donald Trump, cares not a whit for anything that would help us. The GOP worships money, money , money, and that is all they care about anymore.
3
@ Vote for Giant Meteor...
Not sure how you can be so sure that Trump and his and his supporters' rhetoric and many inadequately punished, hate-filled actions aren't partly to blame.
As you say, the hostile BHI have been around for decades, but this is the first time (at least in memory) that they have engaged in a (small) mass shooting specifically targeting a Jewish community.
With local politicians in nearby towns and counties openly making provocative anti-Jewish statements (see town of Chester); admitting that when they refrain from saying such things it's not because they don't believe those things, but because it's more politically expedient to stay mum; and when the POTUS states on national broadcasts that thugs in brown shirts (like nazis) standing on synagogue steps during and after Sabbath services menacing peaceful congregants and later carrying torches while marching chanting, "Jews will not replace us," are "fine people"; that DOES help open the Pandora's box to all others to do the same, or worse.
Highly recommend, by the way, the article "Skin in the Game" by Eric K. Ward.
2
The Jewish people that were killed yesterday were real Jews! They lived a Jewish life and didn't find it necessary to alter their values to fit in with the outside world. Clal Yisroel and Jersey City, NJ, has been diminished by their loss. We need to find out where on Social Media the killers hatred was promoted and cut it off so no one can ever poison their minds seeing such filth on the internet again. Sedition is not free speech.
32
"Real Jews"?
One of my old teachers came from upper-middle class, assimilated Jewish families in Berlin and Prague -- lawyers, architects, literature professors, musicians. Her brother was killed in World War I fighting for the Fatherland.
Both sides of her family perished in the Holocaust. She made it out safely, over the mountains, to the sea, and out, by means of contacts in the United States.
Your statement is untrue and unfair.
38
@Joel Friedlander
I lament the loss, Joel, but yes, sedition is free speech. Violence is not.
If you believe speech leads to violence, then police your own habits, monitor your children, and be selective about your social circles. Spread as much of your own speech as you can to offset what you think is destructive.
But no blanket policies affecting adults you do not know.
3
@DZ From what is now being revealed, the male perpetrators was a member of a hate sect. His views were published on the internet by one system or another. Such views would never be allowed on the older media and should be eliminated from social media and the entire internet. All of the men in my family, on both sides, fought in the Pacific against the Japanese, or in Europe against the Nazis. They were gone for about 5 full years. We must not make their fight have been in vain, and if we allow Fascism and religious and racial hatred flourish in America we will dishonor our soldiers.
4
This Black group for years intimidated our congregation on 14th street. The police did nothing, as we well know Jewish Lives Don't Matter
42
So it was a terrorist "incident", then. Word to the wise - every mass shooting like this is the work of terrorists.
107
@PeteH
In a sense, you are correct. However, there are Mass shootings where the killer targets his/her own family members, there are Mass shootings when robbery (typically involving drugs and/or Money) is the primary motive, there are Mass shootings between rival gangs. In addition, there are Mass shootings which involve some sort of personal grievance, or perhaps perpetrated sheerly for the (sick) thrill of it. All such shootings are terrible and terrifying, of course. But the classic definition of terrorism is violence committed against strangers, in service of a political agenda. This would include hate crimes targeted against groups of people on the basis of religion, ethnicity, nationality, gender, or political affiliation.
12
@PeteH white supremacist mass shootings are legally not terrorism in the eyes of the FBI. The act needs to be tied to a foreign group in order to be classified as such.
They may be able to label these guys terrorists. I don't know if BHI has an international presence or not.
Was this anti-Semitic attack or an anti-Hassidic attack
Last Friday, the New York Times published a story about the Attorney General of New York bringing a law suit against the town of Chester for doing everything in its power to prevent members of the Hassidic community moving into the town.
There were 296 comments on the story; 90% or more were against Hassidim.(the Hebrew plural of Hassid).Many of these commenters describes themselves as Jews The language in these negative comments were derogatory, full of bigotry and I believe would have been censored by the NYT moderators had they been directed at any other minority group.
The comments that the paper chose as NYT Picks highlight my point. There was only one pro-Hassidic NYT Pick with 22 recommends and all the others were against each with 200 to 393 reccomends
This indicates that the dislike/hatred of Hassidim as Hassidim is widespread. It has already reared its ugly head in Brooklyn. Are secular Jews and others now channeling anti-Semitism into hatred of Hassidim to save themselves.
9
@Menachem
Listen up: an "anti-Hasidic" attack is, by definition, an anti-Semitic attack (or a "judeophobic" if you prefer that terminology). There are no non-Jewish Hasids, and your comment is akin to saying that an attack by someone who is not Christian that is aimed at harming Episcopalians as such isn't also and inherently anti-Christian. Baloney!
7
@Wondering Jew
I phrased myself badly. I meant to ask if the fierce and often bigoted opposition to having members of the Hasidic community lead violent anti-Semites to think Hasid when they think Jew and embolden them to attack the Hasidim in their midst.
This is so incredibly sad. I have nothing else to say.
2
I am constantly trying to figure out why so many people hate Jews, and hate Israel. It boggles my mind trying to understand how one religion and one country can be the subject of so much vitriol.
20
If the Black Hebrew Israelite Group considers themselves Hebrews, shouldn't this attack be called racist, rather than anti-Semitic?
6
Without a better understanding of what the group’s ideology is, I don’t think such a conclusion is warranted.
2
Think about how anxious and disturbed mentally balanced people have felt about Trump's rhetoric against the "other." It's been a persistent, low level of anxiety for many of us since January 2017. Then think about how Trump's hateful language affects people on the margins - those with mental health issues, paranoia, psychopaths. These people have been coming out of the woodwork since 2017, committing hate crimes against Blacks, Jews, Mexicans, etc. These marginal people are the very people we need to worry about, not dismiss. Trump's message is taken to heart by them because they are unstable.
131
@dga - The Black Hebrew Israelite's have been preaching their hate on NYC street corners since long before Trump got on the scene.
70
@Mkm
Point taken, but on the other hand, it's a plain fact that the Trump family has been actively exacerbating racial strife and stereotyping on the streets of NYC for >70 years. Leveraging their wealth, publicity and control of property, they've done more to lower quality of life than 10,000 ordinary bigots put together. Only God knows what NYC would be like today if he had given Fred Trump the wisdom to act as a unifier rather than divider of his community.
4
@dga - Let me get this straight. Two black people targeted a police officer then a Jewish grocery store and Trump's to blame for it?
6
Recall Mr. Trump's remarks regarding the anti-Semitic marchers in Charlottesville. He said there were "good people on both sides".
Sorry Mr. Trump. There is no good side to blatant, violent murdering anti-Semites. There is only death and destruction. The atmosphere of acceptance of anti-Semitism as normal is a direct result of Mr. Trump, his administration and his white supremacist supporters.
Jewish citizens must express their outrage and disgust and not be silent. These deaths were caused by anti-Semites who believe it is open season on Jews.
It is time to call out the white (and black) racists and hold them accountable for their criminal actions.
7
The Black Hebrew Nationalists were the ones who initiated the confrontation with the Covington kids. It is an black anti-Trump group and yet some of the commenters blame it on Trump. Hard to understand their reasoning.
The Black Hebrew Nationalists have been around long before Trump became President.
49
The reports say six were killed in these events. Beside the police officer, the two members of the Hasidic community, and the two suspects, who was the sixth?
2
There was a third death within the market that remains publicly unidentified.
1
There was a third civilian victim in the market.
1
@polymath
The 3rd victim was a non-Jewish worker at the grocery
1
This is the predictable and inevitable outcome of group-based identity politics of grievance. The right AND the left have blood on their hands. The left for fomenting anti-police fervor around a few exceptional cases of police brutality and anti-semitism with their continued championing of a Palestinian state that's literally led by a terrorist organization. The right for embracing and emboldening white supremacists who are increasingly threatened by the loss of their status in a pluralistic society.
Make no mistake. The only way forward is what MLK envisioned 55 years ago - to judge humans on the content of their character not their skin (or sexuality or gender identity or immigration status).
21
Since our GOP are anti everyone we must stop the sale of bullets to them. I know several several DART bus drivers in Sussex county who are NRA members and have told me they have cases and cases of ammunition at their homes. Whenever i get on the bus they have Rush anti American Limbaugh blasting on the radio so he is causing anarchy to happen daily. The only ones who need bullets are the police and our military.
3
Southern Poverty Law Center has identified some fringe groups of the Black Hebrews as being hate groups. The characterization of the Black Hebrews as a hate group is incorrect.
4
My heart goes out the police officer and the victims in the Kosher grocery store. Anti antisemitism is a delusional belief system that has not lack of followers.
For many years, members of the Black Hebrew Israelites group would stand at the corner of 14th Street and University Place in Manhattan ranting, and I mean RANTING, about bizarre conspiracy theories and eccentric religious beliefs. Their rage and paranoia was palpable. It would not surprise me if a member of that group went off the deep end and into violence.
19
It was Black Hebrew Israelites , Like the Covington kids.
18
Sending MY thoughts to the GOP/NRA Party. The usual, and unprintable.
Vote them ALL out. 2020.
15
I hate all of the hate and haters.Why?!!!!!
1
My condolences to the policeman's family. Why are Jews always the victims? All so sad.
8
The killers have been identified on other news sources as Black Israelites.
14
Voting for Trump means empowering murderous antisemites to commit even more brazen violence against Jews.
5
Hate can be expressed and transmitted in many ways;
by words, written, voiced and tweeted. By endless actions.
Created, to violate selected, targeted “the other(s).” Daily!
As well as by NOT voicing, writing and/or doing what is needed to
make a difference which makes an equitable difference for
sustainable menschlichkeit.
Unnecessary-Hate-Enabled-Deaths, gun- related,
once again, will be defended based on the irrelevant
Constitutional grounds of “the right to bear arms,”
without noting the individual responsibilities and
accountabilities for insuring public safety and wellbeing
which each right entails!
Democracy, an ongoing dynamic, multidimensional
“experiment” in civility for diverse Peoples guarantees the
RIGHT to BE personally unaccountable in choosing to
BE willfully blind to what IS, which should not BE. EVER! Daily.
Choosing to BE willfully deaf to unnecessary, experienced, existential- pains, ALL around, daily.
Choosing to BE willfully indifferent to and about...daily.
Choosing to be willfully ignorant to available, accessible, generalizable facts, daily.
HATE: Actions. Words. Beliefs. Attitudes. Laws. Traditions. Legacies.
Enabled by each of US in our toxic WE-THEY daily, violating cultures!
1
Condolences to the families of the victims mean nothing. What we need to do is to get rid of the current political environment which demonizes and tacitly promotes violence against non-whites, non-christians, women and gays.
127
@Jeff Yes, and get guns off our streets. But Trump and the Repubs, happy sucking on the NRA's teat, will never do so.
9
@rich Everyone seems to forget that antisemitism predates Trump by a very long way, that is has been rising in America and Europe over the last twenty years, and that antisemitic incidents are increasing even more rapidly in Britain (cf. the Labour Party - that's the left, remember?), France, and Germany than they are here. Britain's government is in shambles, and Germany and France are lead by liberals like Angela Merkel and Macron.
Remember the attacks in France between 2015 and 2017? No Trump there - who do you think pulled that cork out of that bottle?
Antisemitism is rising again across the West.
And what was the excuse 500 years ago?
40
@Jeff ... I believe the killers were black.
29
It is horrific enough when the intolerant lone-wolf assassins set to work. When the disease of mass hate becomes contagious, though, and multiple gunmen thinking along the same lines join together in their bloodthirsty rage, we have to see this as a societal and not psychiatric sickness.
The answer is not to talk nonsense about better mental health services (as if these people would seek them out) not is it to babble about good public gunmen taking out the bad, but rather to take away the singular tool -- as most Americans agree we should -- that allows such easy commission of these public massacres.
6
We shake our heads and shrug. Getting immune to horror is frightening in and of itself; and dangerous for our society.
6
It's a horrific event committed by people who without a doubt do not have anyone's best interest at heart, obvious understatement. What's amazing to me in reading these posts is the instant push for an anti Second Amendment drive. Blame the gun. Blame the gun owner. Blame the NRA, this one of which is the newest mantra/narrative of the anti Second Amendment bunch.
Our neighbor to our immediate southern border, Mexico, has outlawed the citizenry from owning/possessing firearms. A nation with only a third of our population size and yet has far and away more murders committed each year than the U.S. One might think that would stand as a fiery example to the evils of "gun control", but for some reason there are many who wear blinders. More so, they seem to wear earplugs as well when being told of it.
Mexican drug cartels have even recently defeated the Mexican Army in an hours long running gun battle. The Army surrounded, outnumbered, and their own El Presidente' made the call ordering the Army to surrender to the cartel! No joke. No exaggeration. The cartels attacks at times even spilling over into the U.S.
It matters not for what reason people are willing to murder others. Drug gangs, wannabe dictators, existing dictatorships, religion based hate groups, conquest, the mentally unstable. The result is always the same. An unarmed, disarmed, or unwilling to defend themselves citizenry will always be their victims. Bar none, that is an inescapable fact of life.
5
I don't know how to express my sad feelings, but this kind of hatred, this kind of terrorist act is staining the glory of this great nation!
Such beautiful lives lost, and many more feelings were injured...
May God Bless Those Victims.
Uyghur Community stand with you! May God Bless Jewish Bothers and Sisters.
171
@Uyghur thank you!
10
@Uyghur I'm Muslim, we all stand with them.
12
Never heard of the group involved, if two people make a group, but the article’s link regarding the group as “that [where] whites are not among them” seems appropriate in the middle of rural America. From here it appears the stain on this great nation of ours was largely inflicted by ‘the very rich white.’ Deep down I know the real problem is the ‘very.’
No longer necessary are the warnings of growing anti-semitism in the US and the rest of the world. It is here, and while we don't know if this specific case came from the far left or far right, we do know that it wouldn't happen without easy access to guns.
For those who lost their lives, may their memories be a blessing
528
@BMD
I agree with your comments. There is rising anti-semitism on both the far right and far left in the US and abroad.
The overwhelming majority of extremist gun violence in the US is from the far right. I expect this will be too.
It is a shame that we have such gun violence in the US. Thoughts and prayers are meaningless. Gun regulation is not. The 2nd Amendment is not within limits and the US had significant gun regulation until the 70s and the emergence of the radicalization of the NRA.
127
@Anon The NRA is not radicalized. The NRA teaches safety, responsible gun ownership and protects our Constitutional rights to self protection. The police often arrive only after the damage is done.
22
the original mission of the NRA was education, safety, and gun sports. since the 1990s, the NRA has become increasingly politicized and extreme. gun control measures that they supported 20 years ago are completely anathema to them today.
64
It was hard for me to believe yesterday that people could think that the assailants drove to, invaded, and shot up the only kosher supermarket in Jersey City accidentally.
The murdered cop certainly knew his job; he knew something was amiss with that van. A brave guy.
843
@B. I might've misinterpreted what I read, but I initially thought that the assailants took refuge in the supermarket, not that they invaded it. To me it sounded like there had been a shooting at the cemetery and the assailants fled and went into a building that happened to be a kosher supermarket. Now I see that I was incorrect in thinking that.
38
@B. Same. I am Jewish and until a couple of years ago was also a resident of Jersey City. Kosher supermarkets aren't very common there, so when I heard about this yesterday, I had a strong feeling that this was no coincidence. (Also, they had big guns and a lot of ammo... they were clearly prepared for something.)
I also want to express my sincere condolences to the family of Detective Seals. My heart breaks for his five children. Police officers work every day to make an increasingly dangerous world a safer place, and I am so sad and enraged that he was targeted because of his uniform.
373
@B. Now if we could only curtail the anti police sentiment on the far left.
64
This is yet another indicator that the hatred of pre-WWII Germany is spreading across the US.
Thank you, President Trump, for cultivating this hatred and terror against Jews, African Americans, LGBTQs, immigrants, differently abled, the weak, the poor, the elderly, and more.
232
@Livi Slavin Women. I have had two incidents of guys trying to drive me off the road. Bumper sticker for the MA AG their justification. Trump has made it ok across the board.
21
@Livi Slavin Shooting was perpetrated by a member (or former member) of the Black Hebrew Israelites, an anti-white, anti-semitic and anti-police group.
Agreed that Trump has definitely more mainstreamed hate during his term but let's please not forget that there are hateful/unstable people everywhere.
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/jersey-city-shootout-developing-details-3/2239660/
53
@Livi Slavin Are you serious? The man who transferred embassy to Jerusalem, who declared Jews a nation to protect them from the antisemitism of the left on campuses of universities , who donated to Jewish charities for decades, whose grandchildren are Jewish is an antisemite? Then what is Bermie who supports Linda Sansour, what are Democrats whose best friend is Farrakhan and the quad? What is BDS Antifa? And why are Democrats not screaming about gun control after this shooting ? Because these guns were obtained ILLEGALLY!
57
Do we only have national conversations about anti-Semitism when a white man kills Jews for being Jewish?
44
I lived in Jersey City, very close to this area, from 2013 to 2016 and had to move out. We had two murders within 12 feet of our bedroom window in that time. I know what the problem is first hand - the residents of the area (not ALL residents obviously, lots of our neighbors were wonderful, but a LOT of them were just thugs, or family members of thugs and dealers). We loved our house in Jersey City, but it was not possible to stay because of the gang that hung out in our doorstep every day and every night. It was hell. I was personally in touch with the West Division Police and Mr Fulop, many many times, begging for assistance. I'd call the police at 3am when the gang had grown outside. Nobody EVER helped me. I had to leave the area. I remember our realtor telling us about the new influx of Jewish people, when we were selling our house. I had hoped that they would not meet the mob mentality that we did. Looks like I was wrong. I'm so sorry for those people. They should know now that the police are NOT going to help them. They need to work with the thugs. That's how Jersey City runs. This is not a small handful wrongdoers but an entire dysfunctional area, where the relatives of the thugs provide an extensive support system for them. You'll see the same pattern over and over, the aunt or grandmother inside the house, and the thugs hanging outside. It's been like that for a long, long time. Those people own the street, not the police or the mayor.
24
Antisemitism
The Hate That
Will Not Die
14
An uncommon event before the age of Trump. You know some of them are good people. Divide and hate Trump's only lasting legacy ti the American People. I hope those Conservative Jews in Florida are looking at the downside if the Donald. Division and hate never works out well for Minorities.
28
@GUANNA
I apologize, but Wrong. Nearsighted and just plain wrong.
Look at the stats, antisemitism has been on a radical upswing while Trump was still a reality TV star. Over 7000 reported events during the Obama administration, who knows how many UN-reported. It is logical but misguided to blame antisemitism on a variety of hot topics, be it Trump, Israel, Jewish success and visibility. But antisemitism just is and always will be. Some societies can suppress it better than others.
18
@GUANNA
How can Trump support the Jewish state, support the Saudi government and support white nationalist Stephen Miller all at the same time?
14
@GUANNA At least one of the shooters was a Black Hebrew Israelite - they have existed before Trump and I don't think they are moved or motivated by him
18
NBC New York has identified the shooting suspect as a "former" Black Hebrew Israelite and his female companion. The group has it's own skewed Christian identity theory, similar to white Christian identity groups, and linked in the same sort of virulent racism. There is a climate of hatred at a fever pitch but blaming Trump with his Pandora's box of sins, seems pointless. What would really impress, is if Trump defied expectations (which are very, very low) and made a strong statement critical of hatred and violence. But that seems very unlikely.
11
@MarkH
We are not little children to need big daddy Trump (or any other president) to tell us that shooting someone out of hatred is wrong. We are grown ups and know these things, already.
Enough with the Trump hatred.
8
Since the administration of Donald Trump hate crimes across the nation have occurred targeting a number of groups. Hate crimes against Jews have also increased where most places where Jews pray have security cameras and other preventive measures to try to prevent such attacks which heretofore have been thought unthinkable. It is no accident that they are occurring with greater frequency during the presidency of Donald Trump. Just the other day he spoke to a group of Jewish real estate brokers. He with antisemitic venom said "A lot of you are in the real estate business because I know you very well. You’re brutal killers. Not nice people at all." In an era when the president cannot censor the gross, hate filled, vituperative and ugly comments that come out of his mouth it is no wonder the statistics on hate crime are trending up.
2
@Natalie
Hmmm, no, I don't buy it. Trump has done more for Jews than most other presidents.
6
Can we see the names and pictures of the victims? And the gunmen?
6
You have an avowed white supremacist (Miller) whispering in the President's ear every day, guiding US domestic policy.
When the Charlottesville protest got ugly - as things invariably do when racist neo-nazi's are involved - trump said that those folks screaming "jews will not replace us" were good and decent people. As such, it's no great surprise that anti-semitism is on the rise. Again.
Condolences to the friends and family of the victims, who must face terrible moments. To the rest of Americans, perhaps now's the time to start putting pressure on your elected officials to decry anti-semitism & racism. Demanding Miller's ouster would be a good place to start.
2
Trump’s new decree that categorizes Judaism as a nationality will pour fuel on the fire of anti-semitism. White supremacists might even get the idea that Jared Kushner is more loyal to Israel or even Saudi Arabia than he is to the US
5
If Trump wasn't in the White House none of this would happen. Anti semitism and racism have become mainstream because of Trump. Come on America, we can do better than this. Impeach and remove him from the White House, a place he should never have gotten too. Putin is laughing all the way to the bank.
1
This happened just a day or so after President Trump retailed vile anti-semitic language, nationally broadcast. This is just the latest of his doing "stand-up" patter about Jews, to entertain his wide national audience. He didn't cause this but the sequence is not negligible in setting a tone that activates haters. And he knows this, at least
3
No matter how much the orthodox Jewish community sides with the so called president, they will never really escape the vilification of his minions. The white supreme sits supporters of the so called president will follow his subtle and not so subtle suggestions to target the Jews. His latest designation as Jews as a nationality is a dangerous situation and should history repeat itself we are in for some trouble. Like a mob boss he doesn’t have to articulate direct orders. He protects himself from direct blame and culpability. tRump is evil and pursuing his fever dream of being an American dictator.
2
This is the new normal, brought to us by a right-wing that is fomenting hate against "others." Us Jews will stand together with all oppressed people against this hatred.
1
The Times should select some reader posts that this was anti-Semitic terror along with already selected defenses of our bigoted President as NYT picks for this story. I know our educated professional classes don't want to see the truth that we are in a lifelong fight with the right---over both the connected issues of hate and climate change--- because you'd just rather have a life of privilege passed from generation to generation & see yourself reflected in "rational" discussion informed by "coming together and "seeking middle ground." But that is not the reality and it will not be the reality for your kids. We are in a fight for our lives.
5
Trump elicits deep, emotional reactions in readers, but please, PLEASE........lets not lose our focus here.
7000 reported antisemitic events (and countless unreported) happened during the Obama administration. Nobody would dare call Obama an anti-Semite.
Its not Trump. Its not Israel. Its not wealth, visibility or success. Its inexplicable, and always has been.
Its just deep rooted hatred. And its been a societal problem literally for thousands of years. Every generation has tried to explain it away. All reasons sound logical, but evolve with each new regime and generation. Jews are too different, Jews are too assimilated. Jews are too wealthy, Jews are too poor. Jews are capitalists. Jews are socialists. They secretly run the government, they are organizing a revolution against the government. Pick your poison- they have all worked at one point in history.
Its always been there rotting just below the waterline- some societies are just better at suppressing this eternal hatred than others.
8
Again, another double standard when it comes to the Jewish people.
The Israeli press was first to report that Jews were targeted . The US press has focused on the dead police officer and offered virtually no information on the dead people. Why doesn't the press report that the dead were three orthodox jews, one of whom was the store owner. Jewish lives do not matter in the US press.
15
Antisemitism is rising.
This has nothing to do with Israel or Palestinian issue. It may be irrational, but totally in line with prior history of Jewish life in the diaspora. There has been a recent 75 year "time-out" granted after the holocaust, this reprieve is rapidly expiring with the daily deaths of those few survivors that are left.
It is a perfect storm of radicalization and reinforcement of racist views in the vast echo chambers of the internet. Most events go unreported. There are numerous daily verbal and physical attacks in Brooklyn. Ask any orthodox Jew, they will tell you. They are the most visible and obvious, and therefor the easiest targets.
I fear even more so for England in the event Jeremy Corbin gets elected, when open and blatant antisemitism may be tolerated as government policy.
181
@megachulo I have to dispute your assumption that a Corbyn led government would tolerate antisemitism because it insinuates that it wouldn't be tolerated by a Johnson led government.
We currently have a Prime Minister who has written books full of xenophobic, racist and antisemitic statements and tropes. 72 Virgins https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/17/books/boris-johnson-72-virgins.html
It is safe to say that antisemitism is tolerated currently by the Conservative government and, much like in the US, it seems to be ignored when it comes from the right leaning parties.
17
@megachulo Tribalism is rising. Antisemitism is a symptom but the roots are racial in nature. Its America's genetic background coming to the surface led by the hostile atmosphere created in Washington. They, and by they the WH and Congress, set the tone whether we want to accept that fact or not. An atmosphere of aggressiveness and antagonism.. or ignorance and arrogance if you will sets the tone of the day. We live through the results.
2
@megachulo . . . and I so often wonder what evangelicals are thinking about this since they own part of their precious bible to the jewish tradition and heritage, including the 10 commandments they so often have wanted to post at government offices. And of course, what do Christian gun owners, have to say about the commandment, Do Not Kill. Does that mean just don't kill some people whom are on your side of religion, but anyone else is a-OK?
And how are they not protecting and speaking out about religious intolerance they feel they suffer, while someone else whose scripture they quote, is gunned down? This is curious to me.
5
Very interesting article. Orthodox Jews make roots in an old African American neighborhood. And mother in law says her daughter in law is in heaven. That's interesting for their faith. Some Jews do not believe in going to heaven.
2
@Vesta Not sure which Jews you know but I'm an Orthodox Jew living in a very large Orthodox community and every Jew I know believe in heaven. Do you have an issue with Jews moving into African American communities?
5
I condemn the incremental social acceptance of racism not merely under this president, but earlier, since the election of a non-white one. DJT is a disaster for this country and the world, without question. But it's facile and lazy to peg him as the cause. This country has a long history of racism - it was built on the back of it and it threads through our social and economic foundations. Trump is the manifestation, not the cause. But let's talk about something difficult: Black on Khasidic violence. I am sympathetic to both groups, but I continue to read stories about Khasidic Jews attacked in Brooklyn and while it would be neater and more politically expedient to point to Trump supporters, this isn't Charlottesville. Racism is being preached and spread against minorities and it grieves me to see one persecuted minority attacking another persecuted minority - low hanging fruit, but if you see a poor group moving into your poor neighborhood and assume that they're the cause of your problems, you will never come close to solving those problems. Until we look in the mirror, we will never fix the true inner rot of our society.
7
How many deaths will it take till we know/
That too many people have died???
Many God comfort the mourners.
2
This reminds me of that famous quote attributed to Niemöller:
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
9
It's no longer a case of if this is going to happen again and if it's going to happen near where I live. It has happened just a short ride from where I live and it WILL happen again. With all the GOP's talk of supporting the police, may they be reminded that the ease with which people can buy guns in this country also facilitates the killing of police officers like Detective Seals. Voters need to decide whose side they're on: do they want to continue to be deluded in their belief that the Second Amendment, supported by a terrorist group known as the NRA, is a right sent from heaven or do they want to insure that our children can attend school safely and that we can go to the movies or stores or to our places of worship and not have to be worried about being mowed down by military grade weapons.
5
So much hate flowing in our country now. My heart breaks for these families and the community.
111
Would LOVE to know if the innocent people who died were killed by police bullets or the perps.
One is the tiniest bit reluctant to criticize life-and-death decisions made in the heat of the moment, BUT ... driving a vehicle into a store sure sounds like someone's call -
"Let's not let this turn into an overnight thing with negotiations!"
And I get that. But it does smack of "We'll get the 2 bad guys, of course; if we're lucky, there won't be too many collateral deaths!"
And with a policeman killed early in the sequence, common sense says that the police brass might have had a "bring it on" mindset.
These suspicions - as I say - are clearly grounded ... but well short of demonstrated. Unfortunately, even puny JC seems to have signed on to the currently in fashion "Let's dole out the news ever so calculated-ly."
"Pull off the band-aid" sounds better in my view. Yes, if the assailants are black or middle eastern, there will be the usual racist blowback, but a day or 2 delay really won't change that.
Back to my first point - if the police action resulted in the deaths of 2 bystanders, admit it. Maybe, the next time a tactic like this is considered, someone WON'T just *HOPE* for a surgical strike - they'll consider it LIKELY that some innocents will perish. (And in that community, you may have 7-10 orphaned children per adult killed.)
1
Since the murderers began their assault on the market by firing into it, the criminals are the most likely killers of the civilians.
2
Has anyone noticed? This country is out of control!
Anything goes.
2
Local NBC news in NYC identified one suspect as David Anderson a member of the Black Hebrew Israelites. That group is a known anti-white, anti-Semitic organization. If you live in NYC they are mostly recognizable as a group that holds small rallies/gatherings near Penn Station with preachers speaking a mix of racist rhetoric and over the top conspiracy theories.
Let's not forget that hate and violent mental instability comes in all forms. While Trump has definitely ramped up divisive rhetoric on his side, such hate has been around far loner than he and will be around in the future.
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/jersey-city-shootout-developing-details-3/2239660/
6
385 mass shooting to date this year. More than 1 per day. Yeah, we are exceptional.
9
I'd like to (and certainly am tempted to) comment at some length on this story, but...there just seem to be too many unknowns and "loose ends" right noiw (Wed. AM on the West coast) to allow me more than a "rant" rather than something useful to say. Anyone else feeling the same?
1
Targeting a Kosher deli? Please call this terrorism. If the assailants were anything but Americans, that’s what it will be labeled.
11
Our Thanks for this massacre brought to you (mostly) by President Trump, Republicans and the NRA.
And the paranoids who populate much of the rest of the country and are thought sane.
Beto O'Rourke was right to say what he said.
2
Trump won’t condemn this anti-Semitic attack if he finds out it was a white nationalist. He doesn’t care about anti-Semitism, but just wants to use it as a cudgel to bash the rising anti-Semitism on the left. Of course, the anti-Semitism on the left is small and less of a threat to us Jews than that on the right.
The rising tide of anti-Semitism on the left and the right is abhorrent to our pluralistic democracy. :(
2
First, condolences to the family of Detective Seals. Words sound so hollow at a time like this but they are the only way we have a letting you that you are in thoughts and prayers. Second, let your local law enforcement officers know how much you appreciate them. Don't wait for them to be killed to say something nice. Third, we already knew that being a police officer and going to the synagogue were dangerous activities. Now we can grocery shopping, if you are a Jew, to the list. Based on Trump's response to events in Charlottesville, I am sure there some "very good people" doing this.
We saw it happen in Paris, now we see it happening here. Jewish lives being taken for the sake of hate. Anti-Semitism must be exposed for the lies and garbage that it is. And those who take away from what it is by attaching other subjects, other interpretations, are part of the problem. It is not a right-wing problem, it is universal. Many Christian churches engage in it, by something as mild as forcing Christmas onto others, or by targeting Jews for conversion, or refusing to recognize that Jesus and his family were Jews. It is as political as attacking Israel verbally or physically. It is as vile as recycling ancient myths and half-truths about Jews. This is why Holocaust Studies must be required everywhere, which must include the historical roots of anti-Semitism and the current roots in brainwashing and mis-education. As much as other people deny it, the hatred for Jews is unique, and so is the history of Genocide, murder, ghettoization, exploitation and mass abduction of the Jewish people. So is the failure to recognize the constancy of the Jewish presence in the Middle East. Truth must be told, not lies, not shadings.
8
This has all the earmarks of a Hate Crime. The question remains was this a part of a larger conspiracy?
Antisemitism is on the rise because of the hate we have spewing from the White House. We can put a dent in this by voting in 2020.
1
Tell me again why it is so easy to buy and own guns.
310
@Steve You do not know how or where these assailants obtained their weapons. You do not know what kind of weapons were involved. Perhaps you should hold you comments until we have answers to those subjects.
16
By a lot of right-wing dogma, the way to fight street violence is with greater street violence. By those standards, we'll have to start arming neighborhood deli staff and religious students, along with schoolteachers, movie ushers, prayer service-leaders, concert musicians and disco waiters. By anti-gun control advocates, the sounds of such firefights as this will be music to all our ears and police will be out of work.
6
@Donald Smith
Unless the guns were smuggled in from a foreign country, they would have been in all likelihood manufactured and sold here. Yes they could be stolen but that is unlikely. You seem to ignore all of the other mass shootings over the last 20 or so years that seem to be increasing in frequency purchased somewhere in the US by the killers. Guns are weapons whose sole purpose is to kill. They need to be tightly regulated, registered and their owners required to carry insurance or have them confiscated.
14
The country faces to evils: anti-Semitism and the mindless availability of assault weapons, under the guise of Amendment 2.( Mass murders are now occurring weekly, each worse than the one before).
What is ironic is that Amendment 2 was for the defense of the citizen against enemies. For every one use for personal defense, 20+ murders and suicides occur almost weekly.
May NRA and Wayne La Pierre have a joyous Christmas and peaceful days, while the rest of the citizens mourn the death of their loved ones.
4
Historical record stands as testament that anti-Semitism is a malleable hatred that can intrude into any contemporary society willing to accommodate it. Under the toxicity of the right wing extremist Trump Presidency it's become emboldened, inflamed to levels never before seen in America. Bringing shame down on the country. America will be a society necessitating rehabilitation once Trump and the poisonous administration he oversaw is finally over with.
5
There are a lot of folks making some pretty specific commentary here on the details of the motive when none have been presented!
5
Thoughts and prayers...but do nothing.
Thoughts and prayers...but do nothing.
Thoughts and prayers...but do nothing.
Yep that's our Congress.
No complaining.
We elected them.
7
These issues are more effectively reduced by community cooperation, not far off federal programs. Murder and hate are unacceptable. We don't need congressional hearings to find that out. Anti Semitism exists on many different cultures. it can be reduced by internal reforms and growth.
1
Where was the good guy with the gun? These killings rest squarely on bone spurs hands.
6
@Sparky Dog
As it is extremely difficult for regular citizens to legally carry handguns in NJ they unfortunately were not there. Unlike criminals the vast majority of gun owners are law abiding citizens so as a result the only people with the guns were the police and criminals.
1
What creates these monsters? They live by hate alone. It's up to the much maligned FBI and law enforcement to find the foul nests of these groups before they do harm.
The FBI has a long record of civil liberties abuse and indifference.
See something. Say something. To some extent, we are all responsible for the actions of our friends/family and neighbors. We have an assailant who published anti-semitic posts. Did anyone who read these posts speak up? If not, why not?
2
When any one of my neighbors is assailed and terrorized, it is me who is also attacked.
My heart and soul go out to those who have died and those who have lost those they love.
America has been brought low by base hatred and unthinking animosity. I love my neighbors and stand with them against all those who foment hate and division--we are one America, and, as Lincoln said: "We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies."
4
Going on 4 years of radical divisions in the country, led by our commander in chief (purposely not capitalized) and screaming members of congress (again, purposely not capitalized). In 70 years, I have not witnessed anything close to this degree of divisiveness in our country. It is very sad to see but we are truly losing this great American experiment of Democracy. Historians will note the beginning of the end of the Republic to these times. It appears that will coincide with the collapse of the environment due to man made climate change (convenient for them). GOP 's only regret is they weren't able to extract that last barrel of oil and burn it before it will no longer matter.
26
@RHH Make no mistake it is led my almighty Democrats too who do not see people as people but as gender/race categories. The far left is tearing the country apart and this started before Trump.
8
Sincere condolences to the family, friends, and colleagues of the brave detective murdered in the line of duty.
And comfort and gratitude to the brave officers and
detectives who responded to the shootings at the kosher market.
43
My condolences to Detective Seals and his family.Also to the brave Jersey city police officers who put their lives on the line everyday.Last but not least to the Satmar Hasidic community to know that are hearts are with you in this horrific tragedy.
71
Obviously, there is a ongoing investigation and these people were known to law enforcement and on a watch list. The key now is run down their financing and logistical support and roll up their cell and their handlers on conspiracy charges. It appears these suspects were under investigation and what is odd is how and why the detective interacted with themi in the cemetary. Often local, state and federal law enforcement can step on each others toes with serial criminals even when there is a joint task force, it is almost impossible to prevent parallel investigations. I will say that the law enforcement response was impressive and exhibited significant training and readiness to combat terrorists. These situations result in casualties in seconds and law enforcement (despite the civilian target deaths) did an excellent job "containing" these perps and liquidating them. As far as the motivattions of the perps, a hatred of Jews and Police would tend to point to a local element which was radicalized to commit suicide by police and attack perceived outsiders moving into the area. Unfortunately, such cross currents and pull and tugs often make it difficult to ascribe any single motive or ideology to the terrorists - but here there was a probably the usual toxic brew of (1) unemployment or low status employment, (2) low self-esteem, (3) religious or political radicalization (4) serial criminality (5) scape goating of outsiders and (5) a hatred for the police due encounters
18
@American Akita Team What concerns me is that this may be used as justification for heavy-handed police tactics against POC. I, too, wondered why a single police officer would approach that van.
Financial inequality strikes again. But don’t worry, the next Billionaire who buys the presidency is sure to do something about it.
@Elizabeth My guess is that the detective knew the suspects or was simply checking to see if the van was occupied and in either case - he was ambushed. He may have merely approached the van and he may not have had his revolver drawn. Still, as a street smart detective working on gun crimes, it is odd that he was ambushed but then getting the drop on someone is not really that hard when the officer cannot see into the vehicle which is why police are so trigger happy during traffic stops. They never know what they will encounter.
As a retired 1St. Responder, I watched the 12.10.19-J.C. gun battle with considerable interest.
As always in these terrible incidents, I mourn the deceased officer; my empathy DOESN'T include the perps!
If this crime was motivated by antisemitism, (or any other form of xenophobic prejudice), it needs to be investigated / publicly, labelled as such...A.S.A.P., with appropriate punishment - enhancement should anyone, living be found to be involved...
31
Who cares about the after the fact investigation? The only thing important is how we can interdict the next one before it happens. These are not standard criminal acts since the perpetrators plan to die at the scene. They are acts of war and they must be stopped before they happen again. First responders cannot help us with that.
when when when do we get the guns off the streets? Beto o'rourke was right!
19
We need armed community defense to support police. Gun confiscation is unacceptable. Cities with tough gun laws have overflow of guns on street. Over 500 million guns in America, most legally owned and in responsible hands.
The voters decide when the guns come off the streets. And they rejected Beto big time.
Maybe instead of pointing to the right or pointing to the left it's time to point at hate. Hate comes from both the right and the left and has been documented to come from the right and left time and time again. We choose to ignore hate based on our desire to find something good on the side of politics we choose to support. Hate is the problem, not politics. Call out hate wherever it shows and no matter the side it comes from.
22
@Mark B. Agreed but dont also whip up racial/gender division, which seems to be Democrats/mainstream media's specialty these days and always around election times.
Depeche Mode said it best:
"People are people, so why should it be?
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people, so why should it be?
You and I should get along so awfully
So with different colors and with different creeds
And different people have different needs
It's obvious you hate me
Though I've done nothing wrong
I never even met you
So what could I have done?
I can't understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
People are people, so why should it be?
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people, so why should it be?
You and I should get along so awfully"
3
@Mark B. Sorry buddy, the left doesn't kill. We are a mixed bag, and often don't agree with one another but progressives don't take long arm guns and shoot people, bomb women's clinics or run people over with their cars.
3
@Mark B. Hate may come from the right and left, but when it comes to violence you can almost always count on it coming from the right. The left use words;the right resort to guns.
2
It's amazing that people are making the leap of logic that our President who has a Jewish son-in-law and recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel is somehow responsible for yesterday's terrorist attack.
I agree with some of the other commenters on this article in that its obvious Government officials are bending over backwards to avoid calling this a terrorist attack with anti-Semitic motivations.
176
@Matt Carey White supremacists and anti-Semites themselves cite Trump as on their side. What other arguments do you need? David Duke, Richard SPencer, DOn Black, the list is endless of white supremacist leaders who view Trump as an inspiration for their cause, including the spread of anti-Semitism. Trump's own advisor, Stephen Miller, is himself Jewish and inspired by white supremacists.
71
@Matt Carey The far left has lost its mind and is equally, if not more responsible for the divisiveness in this country today.
34
@Matt Carey
Are you referring to the same President who said there were good people on both sides in Charlottesville?
39
My sincere condolences to the families and loved ones of all who were lost yesterday, and to the police and the budding Jewish community in Jersey City in general. Although I abhor the behavior of some "rogue cops" (there are rogues and angels among all of us), I live in Hoboken, and have lived in JC, and I know that most of the officers around here are really good people who care deeply about the people they work to protect (a while back, one Hoboken office jumped into the freezing water of the Hudson to try to rescue someone who had apparently jumped in). I shuddered yesterday when I envisioned Detective Seals leaving home to start his day, not knowing... And the same for the people who lost their lives in the grocery.
And to the members of the Jewish community that is now in mourning in Greenville, I am SO sorry that this happened...again. I'm enamored of the Jewish phrase, "May their memory be a blessing." Yes. And may people come to their senses, and may "hate crimes" of all kinds some day become a thing of the past, if that's not too much to ask. This must be a wrenching morning for so many people. Love to all of them.
25
My thoughts and prayers go out to the family and friends of the officer who lost his life protecting all of us! My thoughts and prayers also go out to all the men and women of law enforcement who keep us safe everyday. All of you leave home for work not knowing if that will be the last time you see your family. You walk into every situation not knowing if it will turn life threatening or not, but all you do it everyday. You are the first ones on every scene to eliminate any threats and secure it. You are the first to see anything (accidents,murders,etc) and what you see could also be something that could haunt another for the rest of there lives. We get to dial 3 numbers and no matter what you have to rush to our aide. I can't thank all of you enough for the job each and everyone of you do everyday! Thank you and God Bless!
10
The Trumpublican pavlov mantra of "not politicizing a tragic event" is just that. Gun regulation, just like immigration reform, is an election wedge issue guaranteed to continue. Will the infinitude of gun death ever outweigh the atrocity of the special interests in their grip of power? The other mantra of "thoughts and prayers" does not suffice. What ever happened to the second amendment qualifiers of "a well regulated Militia" and the "security of a free State?"
9
@J.T. Spaulding Does knowing the shooters wer black and jewish have any bearing on your comment? As to your "qualifiers" You miss the point entirely. The clause comes from ancient England where the marksmanship of the long bowman was instrumental to the protection of the realm. Did they ban bows? No. They required all able bodied men to become marksmen. They taught bowman-ship as a requirement of the right to take a wife. In today's word Shooting would be taught starting in 1st grade and gun ownership and skill would be a requirement of citizenship. The entire purpose was to have a skilled citizenry where each inductee was pre trained. You and your wrong thinkers just need to have some pride in the country. You need to recognize an untrained user is, like a dull knife, far more dangerous than one who is skilled and trained.
@J.T. Spaulding You think a terrorist group can’t find an assortment of metal tubes, small parts, cartridges and $$ to pay a mechanic for assembly? Let me answer that for you: There’s a country with strong gun control laws and no-joke enforcement, yet somehow a private group formed and army and took wide swaths of territory before the US tipped the scales against them.
I’m speaking, obviously, of Iraq and ISIS.
Evil people will always buy, steal, build or pay for the making of weapons of every kind. NJ already has a near prohibition on private gun ownership, and the deli/market employees and customers were agreeably unarmed.
The law and its agents did not disarm the attackers until after they had completed their plans, despite their having already committed felony gun and explosive violations beforehand. Next time, the law in NJ will at most disarm the targets and avoid irritating the perps, and the time after next, and on.
It has always been that way, always will. A few more laws will not change the mores of the society we live in. At best they will succeed in disarming more targets, enabling more dramatic attacks, and creating a demand for harsher government. We will never again have the level of public order possible in a country like China, and the result of whatever crackdown on metal tubes, levers and 13th century chemistry will be more terrorists and undefended targets.
@J.T. Spaulding Yeah, the not politicizing a tragic event bit is old. So we are just supposed to let our children, festivals, and the minorities in this country get shot to pieces while remaining silent? No thanks. The majority of Americans want something done about this.
2
They can not give out the names of the shooters until they notify their nearest kin.
13
@profwatson And there may be other reasons if there is an ongoing investigation. But we will certainly learn a lot in due time.
1
@profwatson
Obviously the FBI rushed to the next of kin immediately to ensure none were co-conspirators.
There must a high profile person or group or some foreign entity implicated that will damage
the reputation of someone with political stature.
Just like the Saudi attack on our naval base, the
story will be covered up.
Unbelievable, that along with his perfunctory thoughts and prayers, Trump quickly pointed out that the Saudis will surely compen$ate the victims' families for their loss.
Yet no followup on initial story that some Saudi's filmed the attack or that 10 Saudi trainees were unaccounted for.
@profwatson - More likely than not, police are not giving out the names of the shooters because they don't want their possible comrades in arms, if they exist, on high alert. Next of kin should probably expect unpleasant knock-on-the-door police visits trying to determine the scope of this terrorist attack. I have yet to year an official used the word "terrorist" yet but it sure looks terroristic to me yet I respect what appears to be a professional effort by authorities not to inflame this situation nor create panic nor do anything to add fuel to the bigotry and racism that we all know exist.
1
When are you going to release the names of the shooters? Why are you hiding their identities?
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@Harry
Naming the shooters give them publicity. As the police trace their social media connections, it may be useful not to let all the shooters' "associates" know that they are being pursued digitally. It's called investigation.
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@Harry
I don't care about identity. I care about ethnicity and motive (white supremacist, radicals along the lines of the Black Panthers, radical Islam, sovereign citizen, etc.) I want to know where the threat is coming from; so many to chose from.
3
@Harry I think the shooters names should never get free publicity.
This is now the second major pogrom to occur in the past couple years. Given the coincident sharp increase in anti-Semitic hate crimes under the current administration, can we agree that anti-Semitism is not a “both sides” problem?
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@Jake
Anti-semitic incidents have skyrocketed in Europe. Trump has a lot of problems, but you can't blame him for this.
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@ Ryan m ..... Can you provide a source for that figure?
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@Jake Not so much that it isn't a "both sides" problem, as that it isn't a "sides" problem at all. Even Trump isn't actively promoting this kind of anti-Semitism, although he loves to spread a general sense of chaos and resentment, and is certainly free with anti-Semitic imagery, even as he associates with right-wing Jews. But the narrative that seems to be shaping up, from the very limited information released so far (Obviously we will learn a lot more), doesn't seem to point directly at Trump's rhetoric.
1
The suspect has been identified as David Anderson, a member or former member of the Black Hebrew Israelites cult. To the disappointment of many, this crime is not motivated by white right-wing beliefs.
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@John Quinn
The article I'm reading suggests he became fundamentalist Christian and ranted about Jews and Cops. While he may not be white, it sounds pretty right wing to me.
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@John Quinn We’ve already had several in this thread claim that it was. They’ve even blamed the NRA, despite the shooter’s using illegal guns. The NRA has become part of the partisan landscape rather than the centrist association it was founded as. Still it’s a stretch to place an org that has a program to help LE remove illegal guns from career criminals (Operation Exile, I believe) as the fault here.
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@John Quinn There is no "bright side" to this tragedy, even though you seem to think there is. "Yay! It wasn't a white guy" is not a very civilized response.
9
Very sad.
1
The victims were Jewish and targeted for being Jewish. I’d say that’s clear motivation.
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so slaughtering cops and Jews is not a terrorist act?
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It’s terrorism only if perpetrated by Muslims, apparently.
1
What does the president of hate and his second say about this war? I guess the usual nonsense of our hearts and prayers go out
to the victims and families, tell that to the widow of the police officer and the five fatherless children, and the victims of practicing their religion.
This worthless president and his cult have the nerve to call the FBI scum! Lord spare us the heartlessness of this administration and remove them from office!
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A very dis-jointed report. The fact that the assailants were killed was just inserted, it wasn't in the earlier version thus leading to the erroneous assumption that they escaped.
1
@Ryan Bingham One thing we learn from all these shootings is not to expect the complete story to be neatly written out for us in real time. The police have urgent concerns, in the first hours and days, beyond talking to reporters. They usually don't have all the information themselves, and often have valid reason for not releasing it immediately. Reporters are doing what they can with bits and pieces of information they can gather. Often inaccurate fragments are reported, and then have to be corrected. It may take a week, often more, for the whole story to be understood. That's probably the best we can expect, in spite of our impatient curiosity...
2
I don't understand how people can blame the Gun Law's and the 2nd Amendment, when its simply not possible to get such ammo legally in the 100 mile radius.
My heart goes out to all victims, and all those that are affected from the horrible terror, and thos kids that listened to the horrific shots being fired, and was probably meant for them, per the Mayor.
G-d Bless America
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@SN
"when its simply not possible to get such ammo legally in the 100 mile radius."
NJ does not have closed borders with other states. Gun running up I-95 from lax red states is the source of carnage in states that care more about protecting their citizens than they do about enabling overcompensating insecure men.
That's why we need national gun laws to protect innocent people from NRA-profiteering encouraged slaughter
Here is where crime guns come from in NJ
https://www.nj.com/politics/2016/11/where_nj_criminals_get_their_guns.html
2
Right wing political ramblings are hardly an appropriate response to this tragedy.
Amidst all the carnage it is especially unfortunate that Detective Seals approached the van without backup or before creating a safe perimeter, especially if the vehicle was linked to a homicide.
The decision to engage suspects should include a careful evaluation of how the scenario might escalate.
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@Eric Lamar You beat me to it.
1
@Eric Lamar
OK, so he lets the van keep going until backup can be diverted from another call, then they spot the cop following, shoot him and continue to the Kosher market. Upon discovering that, activists claim the Jews are receiving special favors because the backup request was granted. How’s that better?
He was doing his job with the tools and methods the department gave him. That is to blame the lowest guy on the pole for the spot he’s carved into.
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@AYankee
All conjecture on your part. and silly at that.) Leave no stone unturned to prevent police deaths. Fearlessly go where the facts lead.
Allowing war weapons like assault rifles into civilian life is how you get situations like this.
Seriously, how can it be OK that law enforcement was pinned down like this, like a combat zone with civilians caught in it??
2A doesn't need to be repealed, just common sense applied to it! A well-ordered militia? Give me a break. THIS is how you get gang warfare in cities, outgunned police departments, and shootouts. It becomes a well-ordered mafia zone.
A peaceful, enlightened Democracy, where we educate our children and actually practice our "Christian" values? Seems most conservatives actively despise these things now.
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Mexico has all the gun control you desire and more. They’re peaceful, enlightened and a Democracy.
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All firearms are weapons of war. It does not matter what style of rifle they had with them this time, it is just a matter of convenience. As long as firearms are legal these kind of people will be able to find something to hold off the police. And since in this country firearms are never going to be banned the solution to this kind of incident must look toward other measures. We need to get serious about applying pressure to the many hate groups in this country and jail them and take away their guns before they commit acts like these. These shooters were known members of an extremist hate group and they had posted their threats online. What does it take before the police can step in and stop this kind of violence?
Please further report on the following:
Is the weekend homicide the van was linked to related to this event? Any evidence related to the plan for that pipe bond?
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@B Miller
To be fair - the suspects posted anti-cop statements to their social media which suggests it may not be a white maga-hat wearing supporter. There is, however, strong anti-cop sentiment in the African-American community (for understandable reasons).
6
Anti-Semitic and other attacks by bigots have been skyrocketing since the election of the openly bigoted Donald Trump. Yes, he is in part responsible because of both his own anti-semitic statements and his blatant failure to actually condemn the attacks that have occurred, instead having one of his minions put out a tweet in language too coherent to have been even dictated by him. After the mass killing at a synagogue, Trump not only refused to cancel that day’s ego-boosting rallies, he made a joke about almost cancelling them because he was having a “bad hair day”. He has said outright that jews who don’t support him are not patriotic Americans. He even made anti-semitic remarks last week when speaking to a jewish group. Hopefully, the good, moral and patriotic Americans will wake up and vote appropriately to reverse the slide into chaos and violence and restore sanity and decency to America.
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Yet there are many Jews who support Trump because Israel is their top concern.
If if looks like a duck (terrorism)
Quacks like a duck (terrorism)
Then it must be a duck (terrorism)
No matter the color or creed of the assailants, this is too deliberate to consider it anything but terrorism.
My sincere condolences to this brave detective and innocent victims.
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The main problem of this heinous crime is not anti-semitism; the cause of shootings in the USA is largely due to the perverted interpreation of the constitutional provision of the right to bear arms.
17
The 3 victims were simply defenseless - like everybody in NJ.
7
Anti-semitism thrives in a nationalistic dictatorship such as Trump is creating. It's clear his MAgA followers and he are both causes and symptoms of the degradation of American morality.
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@Sweetbetsy
Anti-semitism is skyrocketing in France and Germany. What do "MAGA" followers have to do with that?
3
If we did not have to impeach the current president, this event would be top of the news and gain the needed attention to anti-semitism and xenophobia that we need to combat and prevent. As it is, the horrible person holding our top office is likely to just tell us there were good people on both sides. Meanwhile, the work of the American people that could be done by a president isn't getting done with a focus more on flushing toilets.
10
I think it’s only a matter of time before this is recognized for what it is: a targeted terrorist attack against an American Jewish community. This is not an isolated incident.
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Why no identities of the shooters.
11
A hot on-going investigation. Others close with these two shooters will be under surveillance and warrants being written. Since this is a multiple homicide with potential terrorist links this is likely a joint FBI/New Jersey task force. The Task Force will be determining to prevent additional coordinated attacks which may be triggered by this first incident. Lots of doors being knocked on or knocked down these first 24 hrs pursuant to warrants and exigent homicide/terrorist exception.
8
@T. Lum Nope. Other media outlets have shared the identities of the shooters. Pretty sure this is a political thing on the NYTimes' part.
4
@Maggie Other Media Outlets are Not the Investigators running the operation. Leaks will occur, but hopefully Not within the first 24 hrs and not by the investigators. The NYTimes is read by the world and has a higher bar, even if one doesn't agree with what is written.
Where are the statements from Democratic candidates? Nothing about rising anti-semitism? Not even a word about gun control.
Are the victims, perpetrators and legal status of the weapons so politically inconvenient they don't count?
21
All of the national media reporting that I saw yesterday only referred to the location as a “convenience store,” not as a Kosher supermarket, which would have immediately put a different interpretation on the incident. This is very sad.
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@Susan The point here is "yesterday". In these fast-breaking stories, reporters put out the information they have as soon as possible, and the public has to follow along. It shouldn't be considered "very sad" that we didn't all know all the details instantly. Actually, it's pretty amazing that we know as much as we do, as quickly as we do. And we will know a lot more in the days to come, including everybody's life story, the history of the neighborhood, all about the Satmar community, and so on.
1
@Susan that was not the case here in Jersey City and New York
1
@John Bergstrom Thank you. I didn't mean it was sad that the media didn't report it as a Kosher supermarket. I meant that it is sad that it happened.
My condolences to the families who are bereaved. I know there is not much that can alleviate the pain currently, but please know you have the love and support of many people across the country.
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@Covert
Hear, hear!
I'm in California. This sort of news is horrific and it matters not ones religion. Our heart felt prayers go out for the souls that were lost and the souls that have survived to endure the pain of this.
12
I second that, and strongly and respectfully suggest that those of us readers who feel sympathy for the victims and survivors take the extra step of embodying our prayers and sympathy by DOING something(s) to address, eradicate. or at least mitigate judeophobia/anti-semitism and, especially, the increase of blatant forms of anti-semitism and of its physically violent expression.
Speak up, step up, show up. Donate, volunteer. Start a dialogue group at your church, mosque, temple, school, trade organization. Communicate your concern to law makers and law enforcement. Do some background research and choose carefully when deciding whom to support and in every election VOTE.
18
@A Neighbor That wont change a thing. You can never change human beings.
Our government officials are not being transparent here. I'm no conspiracy theorist, but I feel that this was home-grown terrorism and officials are avoiding saying so. I was certainly terrified yesterday.
16
I'm horrified by this. Nothing brilliant to add here; I've read so many comments that speak to what I believe about gun violence and heartbreak for the victims. This just horrifies me as it should everyone.
7
"Mr. Fulop has not said whether the violence was related to anti-Semitism, though in a follow-up post on Twitter, he said that “hate and anti-Semitism have never had a place” in Jersey City."
I am tired of these politically motivated untruths. There's obviously an anti-Semitic problem in Jersey City, and hatred is endemic in this world. It just manifested itself. What else can it be when a kosher market is targeted and blown up? It's time to stop denying that these prejudices exist in one's community. The problem can only be addressed if it is defined and investigated.
56
@David M. Perry: Yes, the rhetoric of "hate has no place here" always means "we wish hate had no place here". Like "this isn't who we are", it is too often part of just turning away in denial, but it could be part of actually working towards a better community...
Only one side in the political debate in this country has incited violence and hatred. Blood is on the hands of the Republican Party, the party of Trump.
43
@Jay Dwight: No. This isn't about Trump and the Republicans. And that's not to say that Democrats share the blame, it's to say that this is off in a different direction altogether. It's true that Trump has gotten support from some anti-Semitic sectors, and it's certainly true that he promotes an atmosphere of chaos and resentment, and that Republican policies have facilitated the massive presence of high-powered weapons on our streets... but there are lots of other things going on in the world, and we can't blame everything on Trump.
4
Would this have happened if Trump were not President giving comfort, if not inspiration, to hate?
13
NO one can be sure however our president has brought this to a fold very disturbing, now that anti World and Anti anything is acceptable who knows where will wind up.
So sad
1
Another heartbreaking tragedy for America.
There is no reason to believe that this streak of violence will abate anytime soon.
Trump is doing his destructive part by inciting hatefulness and continued violence.
Something very drastic will have to happen in government to bring about a peaceful country.
11
Why haven’t any of the suspects been identified? Clearly the police know who they are.
18
Many times I have read on Fox, Yahoo and online comments from Trump supporters threatening uprisings because of the deep state efforts to impeach him, and when I can ask them about whom they will attack, they fail to respond, as if they were keeping it a secret or hadn't figured it out. I hope this isn't the beginning of the civil trouble Trump said would happen if he is impeached. The armed lunatic fringe in America is HUGE, with powerful leaders--Trump, Collins, Gaetz, Nunes, Jordan, Alex Jones etc.--adding to their confused hatred, getting them worked up.
11
@Ted Pikul You do not know that, only that there have been no reports tagging them as Trumpies.
4
@Ted Pikul, Put on your thinking cap and realize that Trump is usually anti-cop, except when they are helping his schemes, and wake up to the fact that millions of Trump's supporters are white supremacists, neo-fascists, cross burners who hate Jews and make anti-Semitism a major point in their philosophies. Jews who support him are most likely to get plundered first by his gang.
1
Unbelievable. State and local legislators need to regulate guns in whatever ways possible - forget the mess that is DC. With online sleeper cells brewing, and the psychological isolation that the internet can facilitate for some people, the landscape has changed COMPLETELY. This is a new age of the way in which ideological extremism and gun laws intersect. Period. Our founders could not imagine a world in which an isolated neighbor could become entrenched in violent extremism via a small screen in their hand. This has to end, now. What will it really take?
I’m also really sick of news coverage focusing on the laws that “we need” — because it’s always covered in the abstract? I want an in-depth profile by the NYT of what the current gun laws in a *certain* area stipulate, from the federal on down, and exactly what sort of crimes and exploitations they make room for. Sadly, the rhetoric has been diminished to “we need more” “we need less”. What happened to in-depth journalism about the real issues & specifics? Just another symptom of a media dominated by Trump 24/7.
How about the Times homepage collapses all Trump- or impeachment-related news to a single click, and makes more room for actual issues? Or is it that all the writers are ao consumed with producing Trump-related content that they’ve forgotten about the literal safety of people on the streets? Not only has the Trump era made me feel forgotten by gov’t, it’s made me feel forgotten by journalists themselves.
4
@JTG
Restrictive gun laws will only result in removing the ability of law-abiding people to defend themselves. Those that would do what was done in Jersey City are not the sort to abide by gun laws. Please don't promote restrictive gun laws as a solution; way too late for that in this country.
If an hour-long shootout with automatic weapons in the middle of Jersey City in the middle of the day isn't terrorism, then what is?
And what was it our president said about the "invasion" in our communities?
16
@Avenue Be They did not have automatic weapons. That’s a modern media spin, where the meanings of words are flexible, malleable things.
A thousand blessings upon Detective Seals and his family.
I attended services at several synagogues during the recent Jewish holidays.
All of them had security guards or police in attendance.
Security cameras were evident everywhere.
I don’t doubt that some Jews are already arming themselves.
16
@A.Stanton
If they don’t they have not learned from the lessons of history.
2
@A. Stanton
Indeed they are.
“Officials said that five people, including the two shooters, were killed in the battle at the market on Tuesday.”
It doesn’t seem right to say the 3 murdered (and almost certainly unarmed) innocents were “killed in the battle”. It’s also inappropriate in my opinion to lump the evil murderers in with the victims (“five people were killed”) as if somehow they too were victims—they are the murderers, for crying out loud.
32
The market *is* not *was.* Why is the market described in past tense? It will be in the community a lot longer than then the two nuts who were in the store only to cause a tragedy.
12
Yet another *mass* shooting in the United States.
Only strict gun control laws in conjunction with the dismantling of the American gun industry (the economic impact of which has been valued at $52 billion annually) will make this country safer.
It really is that simple.
24
@Brian No it's not, Brian. Bad guys will always get guns. I was robbed by 3 armed career criminals. If I had not also been (legally) armed, I would be dead right now. Two got away. Let me repeat: bad guys will always get guns. Stricter laws only keep honest people honest.
2
NJ has the strictest gun control laws in the country and it made no difference. The solution is obviously somewhere else and it is interesting that you don’t see it.
2
@Bobotheclown And you inadvertently illustrate why the problem needs a federal solution, one that supercedes the current patchwork of state laws. What good are "the strictest gun control laws in the country" when guns can be bought (and brought in) from neighboring states with less strict gun control laws?
3
Regardless of our religious beliefs, please let us all pray for Detective Seals and his entire family. Also, please pray for the additional three victims and their families. This is an unthinkable tragedy.
The angry side of me asks, "Why are the assailants' identities being protected?"
146
@Gerry Maybe the assailants' names are not being released in order to track their activities quietly, see who their friends and associates are, etc. Are there more of them? Are they a group or gang?
44
@Katrin Thank you, Katrin. Very fair points. I hope these are the reasons.
9
@Gerry Keep in mind different beliefs also include those of us who don't believe in any deity and thus don't pray. However we can still feel sympathy for the families of the victims.
From experience the hard part is not necessarily right after this horrible things happens but later when everybody has forgotten about it and moved on but you still have not gotten your loved ones back.
The Utøya terrorist attack in my native Norway happened in 2011, but the people who lived through it still struggle. They still get harassed by right wing extremists. They still fight the welfare system who thinks they should just pull themselves together and get back to work.
This is the kind of things that gets on my mind. Look at the 9/11 first responders. John Stewart has spent years trying to help them get the government aid and support they need.
I hope these victims will not be forgotten and will get the help they need down the hard road ahead.
21
I'm wondering if law enforcement will change their previous statement that there was no indication of terrorism. Seems like targeting innocent people for no other reason than their religion is the very definition of terrorism.
284
@Tres Leches The 11o’clock news reported that the politicians now said it looked like the market was targeted
6
You are correct. Thank you for the salient observation and comment.
1
Terrorism is political violence not religious.
1
I'm saddened but not surprised by this new information. This never sounded like the work of run-of-the-mill criminals. These people were in possession of long guns and enough ammunition to hold off the police for hours. Once again, carnage has been visited upon one of our cities. If not for the newly revealed bias angle, this would likely be a one-day story. This is America in 2019.
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@Julie W.
Julie, I'm "in possession of long guns" and enough ammunition to start a full scale war if I were so inclined. However, I'm not so inclined and my rifles are only to be reached for in legitimate self defense along with occasional hunting and target shooting. The overwhelming vast majority of rifles in this nation are kept for that very reason, legitimate self defense.
The difference here is these individuals who did this are obviously not doing so with anyone's best interests at heart. It's pure evil, the very thing that most of us remain armed to stand against. This is America, where freedom means you protect the innocent.
10
I am sorry , but I still fail to see why high magazine assault rifles are allowed outside the military or law enforcement. Home defense? Like a marine friend of mine pointed out, "Pat, that's what shotguns are for!" AKs and AR15s were designed to grievously wound mass quantities of people--wound because wounding ties up more of the enemie's personnel. In an urban setting, steel jacketed assault rifle ammunition will pass through most walls with ease, jeopardizing the neighborhood. In the hands of a nervous, probably frightened homeowner, an assault rifle is a disaster waiting to happen. A shotgun is a different story. Their range is limited, and that's a good thing. But if you point at a home invader, chances are you will hit a piece of him, and the result is pretty horrendous. With an assault rifle, the chances are you will miss and hit something unintended a hundred yards away--especially if you are terrified and blazing away with a 30 round magazine. I support banning high magazine military style assault weapons
5
Proxy wars, trade wars, forever war. War, war, war. A bellicose and divided nation flooded with guns. No surprise that our streets are starting to resemble war zones.
Anyone else notice that this kind of thing is happening close to every other day lately?
157
I notice that the police are all dressing up like soldiers with military weapons and uniforms and are using military tactics to clear blocks of civilians and intimidate neighborhoods. I notice that normal police procedures seem to have been discarded when these kinds of events happen. There used to be a difference between soldiers and police but not so much anymore. If we are going to end up as a civilization that is patrolled by armed soldiers what does that make us? I don’t think citizens is the right word.
7
@Bobotheclown
So you want them to 'Officer Friendly' in the middle of a gun battle?
1
In memory of brave Detective Seals, we should all vow to do whatever we can to remove the scourge of gun violence from our streets. If any bought-and-paid-for NRA politicians stand in the way of that goal, they should be immediately voted out of office.
549
@Bill not also in memory of the innocents that list their lives?
25
@Lee M
Dt. Seals worked to remove guns from the street, thus a tribute to him in this form seemed appropriate. No one has forgotten the other victims. Innocent lives lost.
21
@Bill - 393 million guns in America, brought to us and maintained by the NRA and the politicians on their dole.
19
When you lose a police officer, you lose more than his life. We lose that sense of security and the rule of law. A police officer represents both. Officer Seal's family lost much and I grieve for them. I do hope the community heals with less hatred and more inclusiveness.
164
@SridharC I agree - but not much happened when Robert Dear killed Garrett Swasey, and law enforcement's position on gun laws didn't really change when Micah Xavier Johnson lit up those cops in Dallas. Law enforcement across the country should pursue legislation; "more firepower than the bad guys can access" is thin gruel in our world.
12
My heart breaks for Detective Seals’ family. He worked to remove guns from the streets and lost his life while doing his job. It cannot only be police officers’ daily task to keep the public safe from gun violence. Our lawmakers have failed in their responsibility to pass common sense laws to aid in that effort. The Second Amendment is not sacred law passed down from heaven. It had a particular purpose at a fragile time in our early history. Even so, stricter gun laws do not mean repealing the amendment.
412
@A B - It's rather likely that the killers were not authorized to own guns in the state of New Jersey. They did not buy their guns legally, and they were subject to arrest for owning and carrying them. However, since they were criminals, this did not stop them.
22
@A B Your comments and other comments by people who posted here are naive' at best. New Jersey has some of the toughest gun laws on the books.
10
@A B agreed, and, furthermore the second amendment is the only one with the words “well regulated”. Not even the First has such language. It is a clear empowerment of government to regulate gun ownership. The gun lobby chooses to ignore that clear language in pursuit of some uniquely American Wild West machoism, and in so doing has created a uniquely American problem of gun violence in the western world. Imagine if the recent London Bridge terrorist had easy access to a gun, there would have been many countless dead, not two. Or imagine if British soccer fans lived in a country with gun laws like ours! We are not alone in having crazy people or people with intent to harm. We are alone in providing them so easy a trigger.
9
My deepest sympathies to Officer Seals' family and to the families of all of those murdered and injured in this assault on JC. My hope is that the different ethnic and religious groups in this community are able to overcome the hatred and continue building a vibrant community. And praise for the uniformed response that undoubtedly saved lives.
134
@MSC The Jews in that community are not the ones doing the killing. Please don't blame the victims. The hatred and violence is not and was never mutual.
35
@Debra Your comment seems to be a willful mis-interpretation of my remarks. I say I hope different groups (not just Jews) can OVERCOME hatred - meaning the hatred of others. I say absolutely nothing about who is doing the hating. And only two of the victims were Jewish. Do your remarks mean that you think the other victims don't count?
1